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Nov. 19, 2024 - Lex Fridman Podcast
01:56:57
Javier Milei: President of Argentina - Freedom, Economics, and Corruption | Lex Fridman Podcast #453
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So, you know what is the difference between a loco and a genius?
The success.
The next is a conversation with Javier Milei, the president of Argentina.
He is a libertarian, anarcho-capitalist and economist, who made a car with a motosierra that symbolized his promise to reduce the corrupt bureaucracy of the state.
He assumed the presidency in a year ago, with a country at the border of the hyperinflation, very deudated and suffering from massive unemployment and poverty.
He faced this crisis in front, transforming one of the biggest economies of Latin America through pure principles of free market.
In just a few months in the charge, he already achieved the first super-habit fiscal of Argentina in 16 years.
And not only avoided the hyperinflation, but reduced the inflation to its lower level in 3 years.
We'll talk about all this in detail, both of the success and the challenges.
His deep knowledge of economic principles, metrics and data was really impressive and refreshing to hear from a world leader.
But even bigger than the economic transformation of Argentina, Javier represents the universal struggle against the governmental corruption and the struggle for freedom.
Freedom economic, freedom political and freedom of expression.
He has many critics, many of whom are part of the corrupt system that he seeks to maintain.
But many are simply Argentine citizens, asustados by the pain that their radical policies can bring, at least in short term.
But ya sea que uno esté de acuerdo con sus métodos o no, nadie puede negar que su presidencia marca uno de los intentos más ambiciosos de transformación económica en la historia moderna, y que Javier Milei es realmente una fuerza de la naturaleza, combinando el rigor de un economista con la pasión de un revolucionario, en la lucha por la libertad de una nación que ama.
Argentina es uno de mis países favoritos, así que espero sinceramente que él tenga éxito.
Esta entrevista fue realizada con el presidente hablando español y yo hablando inglés, con un intérprete traduciendo simultáneamente.
Hacemos el episodio disponible, con doblaje y subtítulos en inglés y español gracias a nuestros grandes amigos de Eleven Labs.
If you're watching YouTube, you can change between English and Spanish by clicking on the button, selecting the audio and then selecting the language.
The same with the subtitles.
If you're watching X, I'll publish the versions in Spanish and English separately.
If you're watching Spotify or listening in other places, I'll probably publish the version in English.
This is the first time I do something like that in a foreign language.
It was challenging, but revelatory.
Espero seguir conversando con muchos líderes mundiales de esta manera por dos o tres horas, incluyendo a Volodymyr Zelensky, Vladimir Putin, Narendra Modi y Xi Jinping.
Quiero explorar quiénes son, cómo piensan y cómo esperan ayudar a su país y a la humanidad a prosperar.
Este es el podcast de Lex Friedman.
Para apoyarlo, por favor vean nuestros patrocinadores en la descripción.
Y ahora, queridos amigos, aquí está Javier Milley.
When you first understood the value of freedom, especially the economic freedom?
Básicamente, yo arribé a las ideas de la libertad como especialista en crecimiento económico allá por el año 2013-2014.
Yo veía que las estadísticas del PBI per cápita a lo largo de los últimos 2000 años de la era cristiana tenían la forma de un palo de hockey.
It's to say, you could see that the PBI per capita was practically constant until the year 1800, and then experienced a strong acceleration.
And in the same context that caused that phenomenal increase of productivity, that increase of PBI per capita, The population has multiplied more than seven times in the last 200 years.
And basically, that in economy means that you have growth increases.
The existence of growth increases implies the presence of monopolies, or structures concentradas, and that is for the economic theory.
The presence of monopolies, or structures concentradas, is not good, according to the economic theory neoclassical tradition.
But at the same time, you saw that the levels of media had increased in a way, that people of middle level basically lived better than the emperors of the Roman Empire.
And at the same time, the population had passed from 95% of people in extreme poverty to less than 10%.
In that context, the question was, how could it be that something that had taken so many people from poverty, that had improved so many human conditions, could be something bad for the economic theory?
It is to say, something that didn't go well.
So, in that context, Recuerdo que una de las personas que trabajaba en mi equipo me sugirió leer un artículo de Murray Newton Rothbard que se llama Monopolio y competencia.
Lo recuerdo como si fuera hoy.
Cuando terminé de leer el artículo dije todo lo que enseñé de estructura de mercado en los últimos 20 años en los cursos de microeconomía está mal.
That gave me an internal shock.
I called this person who worked with me and recommended me a place where I buy books from an Austrian school.
I bought at least 20 or 30 books that I was looking for one Saturday.
And when I met the library, I was fascinated by the material that there was.
So I came back to the other day with the money I had to pay for my dog, or my son of four legs, and what I had to spend in taxi to go to work and to eat.
And the rest I spent all the money in more books.
And then I began to read it very intensely.
I remember, for example, what was the experience of reading The Action Humanity of Mises, a book that I directly didn't know.
And I remember that at the end of the week I started reading it from the first hoja.
And I didn't stop until I finish it.
And that was a real revolution in my mind.
And of the hands of the lecturers like Rothbard, like Mises, like Hayek, like Hoppe, like Jesus Huerta de Soto, like Juan Ramón Rayo, like Philippe Bagus, like Walter Bloch, That was very inspiring.
And in a moment I came to the works of Alberto Venegas Linchijo.
And also, I had the pleasure and honor to meet him, and today we are friends, in fact.
So, that was what opened the path to the ideas of freedom.
Another book that also influenced me, but had a huge impact, was when I read the principles of political economy of Menger.
It was really revelatory.
I love reading a Eugene von Baver.
Those were things that put in jaque all the thought that he had.
I had a light and light.
I think I've read a lot of books about the Austriac.
Now that I understand a little bit more of the Austrian economy, I was quite poor to say it.
Not because the book is not good, but because there are many things to read that have been fascinating.
So from that, what is today, and maybe you can talk about evolution, is your philosophy, your philosophy of economics.
You have described yourself as a anarcho-capitalist.
Anarchist of market, libertarian, that is the ideal.
And then, maybe in the practical and reality, you have said that you are more than a minarchist.
So, tell me everything.
What is your philosophy of economics today?
I strictly am a anarcho-capitalist.
I desprecio the state, I desprecio the violence.
When we take the definition of liberalism, I use the definition of liberalism that gave Alberto Venegas Lynch, which is very in line with a definition that gave John Locke.
That basically, the definition of Alberto Benegalich says that the liberalism is the respect and restrict the project of the projimo, based on the principle of no agresion and in defense of the right to the life, to the freedom and to the property.
So, I, digamos, encadro todas the discussions in those terms, and the reality is that when one reaches that conception, I would say that it almost becomes anarcho-capitalist, of fact.
What happens is that what it describes is my ideal world.
It's the ideal world.
Now, the real life has a lot of restrictions.
Some of those restrictions you can raise and others no.
So, in the real life, I am a minarquist, abogo by the minimization of the size of the state.
I'm going to try to eliminate the majority of regulations possible.
In fact, what I said during the campaign, I'm going to carry out the practice.
We've done the structural reform in the history of Argentina.
Es una reforma estructural que es ocho veces más grande que la de Menem, que había sido la reforma estructural más grande de la historia, y eso lo hicimos con 15% de los diputados y 10% de los senadores.
Además, tenemos un ministerio de la desregulación, donde básicamente todos los días eliminamos entre una y cinco regulaciones.
Por otra parte, tenemos pendiente 3.200 reformas estructurales adicionales, a punto tal que el día que terminemos con todas estas reformas vamos a ser el país más libre del planeta, con las consecuencias que ellos tienen en términos de bienestar.
Piense que cuando Irlanda inició las reformas de mercado hace poco más de 40 años, era el país más pobre de Europa y hoy tiene un PBI per cápita que es 50% superior al de Estados Unidos.
Entonces, yo tengo una situación presente y lo que yo busco permanentemente, I think that I have to be permanent, whether from what were my academic work and my notes of divulgation and books, that we have today, that we are every day closer, that we are every day more freedom.
Because here are some very interesting things.
The first thing I'd like to mention is Milton Friedman.
There are moments where they ask about the liberals.
There are three types of liberals.
There are the classic liberals, where they could enter Adam Smith or Milton Friedman.
Some say they could enter in that category Hayek.
For me, Hayek is a minarquist.
Then you have the minarchists, where you could find clearly in that place a Mises, a Hayek.
I could find, in terms of philosophical terms, a Nozick and, basically, a Ayn Rand.
And, in a moment, Milton Friedman, based on his own son, says, but if you see, there are some who are anarchists.
Probably, from my point of view, who has been the most inspiration in my life has been Murray Newton Rothbard.
But, then, there are two dimensions.
One is where I want to go, and the question is where I am.
So, the most important thing is to try to advance every day more towards that ideal of anarcho-capitalism.
In that sense, A veces uno es criticado fuertemente y duramente desde esa visión ideal, que yo eso lo llamo la falacia del nirvana.
Es decir, usted se compara contra el paraíso, todo es horrible, todo es inmundo, pero usted no vive en el paraíso, usted vive en la tierra.
So basically what you have to understand is that there are what they call conditions of state.
Suppose that you don't like the rectangles, you like the circular mess.
Ahora, la realidad es que yo tengo pocas horas hasta que vaya y salga mi vuelo y la mesa es rectangular.
A usted le gusta una mesa circular, pero redonda, pero no hay.
Hay una mesa rectangular.
Entonces, o hacemos la nota acá o no la podemos hacer.
Entonces, ¿usted qué hace?
Se adapta a las condiciones de estado.
Esto es lo que hay.
Ahora, entonces, y después usted tiene algunas restricciones entonces que puede modificar y otras que no.
So, the idea is to modify all the ones that can be modified in short and start working for those that can be modified in medium or long term.
For example, If you like the round table, you can make our next note in a round table.
We're going to try to solve it, but we don't have a solution.
So, basically, it's the idea of understanding that some restrictions one can't change and others can.
Also, there are institutional restrictions.
For example, There are many anarcho-capitalists that are dedicated to criticize and, incredibly, they do with more violence against the liberals.
Many of them, in fact, make critique that truly care of sense, because it's just the falacy of Nirvana.
But the reality is that...
Look, in Argentina, for example, the most popular sport is football.
When you go to a Argentina, it's really beautiful.
The tribunals are full.
They're all painted white.
There's a lot of joy.
People can sing songs that are very fun, that are very particular.
It's very of the folklore argentine, by saying it in a way.
But that's so beautiful.
It's exógeno.
It doesn't determine the result.
You put the ball in the middle of the field, and by the way that grites the people, the ball no moves.
It's to say, the one who moves the ball and the one who makes the goal is Messi.
So, what do I want to say?
If you don't get involved and you don't get involved, you don't do anything.
There are many liberals, libertarians, anarcho-capitalists, who are truly inutiles.
Because the only thing they do is criticize those who want to bring the world to the ideas of freedom.
And what they don't realize is that power is a game of zero zero.
And if we don't have it, we have the left.
So if you have your most and most despised criticism, the most probable is that you end up being functional to socialism.
And also, for example, you have cases of fierce hypocrisy.
I've seen cases of agorists, that are the anarcho-capitalists, that are critics of Rothbard, because Rothbard said that there is no one does it, because if one does not do it, the socialists avanzan.
And it's interesting because some of them, I've seen them make criticism, and I remember one of them, that one day the police arrived, and the truth is that they were eating on the and the truth is that they were eating on the side, So it's very easy to critique, propose, suggest, but if he was so agorist, he would have been able to go to jail.
However, when arrived the consequences of the idea that he promoted, he ended up accepting all the restrictions, because clearly it was better to be outside the prison than in the prison, but in that way he sold his ideas.
So it seems to me that not to have in mind the restrictions of the situation So you became president for 11 months.
Could you describe again some of the actions you took?
For example, reduced half the number of ministries, despidos, eliminated prices, will be interesting to detail the first steps.
And what's going on?
If you allow me, first I make a description of the situation we received.
And in order of that, I tell each of the things we did.
When we arrived at the power, we found out that the inflation in the first week of December grew up at a rate of 1% daily, which means 3.700% annual.
The first week of December was accelerated at 7.500% annual.
When you take the inflation in December, it was 54% in the month, which an annualized means a inflation of 17.000% annually.
Además, Argentina has been more than 10 years without growing, with a low-income per capita of about 15%.
And the reality was that about 50% of the poor.
Now we'll talk about that more deeply.
And the reality is that we had a fiscal deficit of 15 points from the PBI, 5 points were in the Tesoro, 10 points were in the Banco Central, which was a monetary monetary fund.
And the reality is that, además, we had pasivos remunerados in the Banco Central for the equivalent to four bases monetarias, winning a one day.
We could have doubled the amount of money in one day.
We had payments of debt in pesos for the equivalent of 90.000 million dollars.
The central bank had international reserves net negative in 12.000 million dollars.
We had commercial debt in the central bank for the equivalent of 50.000 million dollars.
There were companies that were paid for 10.000 million dollars.
So if we would have instantaneously...
We are liberal libertarians, no liberal libertarians.
That was what some of the liberal anarchists would say.
that basically we would open up the first day En ese contexto, claramente si lo hubiéramos hecho hubiéramos tenido una hiperinflación.
So, for us, it would have led to the population of around 95% and probably, in December, the Peronist would have organized saquees of supermarkets and different types of actions and, in the beginning of the year, would have returned the Peronist to the power.
So, for us, it would have been crucial to end with the fiscal deficit.
One of the things that we had promised in the campaign was the reduction of ministries.
And, effectively, we reduced, at least half, the amount of ministries, because we went to nine ministries, today we have eight.
At the same time, we added public employees.
Today we have close to the 50.000 employees that we have added.
Prácticamente no renovamos ningún contrato, salvo que sean de estricta necesidad.
At the same time, we eliminated the work public, eliminated the transferences discrecionales to the province, we were able to make the salaries of the public sector.
Además, we were eliminating economic subsidies, recompense the price of the tariffs.
And in that we have the fiscal balance in the Treasury.
This is very important because in the last 123 years Argentina tuvo déficit during 113 years, and in the 10 years that no had déficit it was because it was not paid for the debt.
So that was absolutely a lie.
We told them that it was impossible to achieve it because we told them that we were able to achieve it in the first year.
And basically they said that no one could be adjusted to one point.
And we reached the fiscal balance in the month of January, or the first month of January.
At the same time, we also cut social plans linked to the intermediary.
Esto es muy importante porque nosotros sabíamos que íbamos a hacer un ajuste muy duro y sabíamos que eso iba a implicar un costo en términos sociales y que teníamos que dar contención durante el primer trimestre y segundo trimestre de la gestión.
Y una de las cosas que hicimos fue eliminar lo que se llaman los gerentes de la pobreza, es decir, los intermediarios.
Básicamente las personas tienen una tarjeta donde reciben la asistencia, pero sucede que tenían que dar una contraprestación y esa contraprestación era verificada por un grupo que son los piqueteros.
Entonces, en ese contexto, cuando iban a firmar la contraprestación, le quitaban la mitad del dinero.
Por lo tanto, al sacar esa contraprestación, dejaron de extorsionarlos, dejaron de robarle el dinero y con la misma cantidad de dinero recibieron el doble de recursos.
Y obviamente que también hicimos un refuerzo adicional para que los recursos se desplazaron.
So, that's what we have to do with the five points of adjustment in the Tesoro.
Now, what happens?
En la medida que empezamos a tener equilibrio fiscal y que no necesitábamos emitir dinero para financiarnos y que además íbamos cumpliendo con los pagos de intereses y con algunos pagos de capital, una de las cosas que pasó es que se empezó a recrear el mercado de deuda.
Y eso nos permitió ir sacando deuda del Banco Central y transferirla a Tesoro, que es donde debería haber estado siempre.
Y eso nos permitió hacer un ajuste por el equivalente de 10 puntos del PBI y algo que decían que todo el mundo era imposible y que nadie decía cómo se iba a arreglar.
Nosotros básicamente lo que hicimos es un ajuste fiscal en el Banco Central por el equivalente de 10 puntos del PBI.
Entonces, si usted me pregunta, claramente que nosotros hemos hecho no solo el ajuste fiscal más grande en la historia de la humanidad, porque hicimos un ajuste fiscal de 15 puntos del PBI, sino que además gran parte de eso volvió a la gente like, less seniority, less inflationary.
It's true that we're going to increase the impuesto país, but we're going to increase the price in September and now in December we're going to eliminate.
Today, for example, we also announced that in December we're going to eliminate the impuestos to import.
In that sense, you have to give us a lot of people 13,5 points of the PBI because the real pressure fiscal is the size of the state.
So, while in December we discussed the hyperinflation, we are discussing credit for 30 years.
It's to say, all those resources that were brought to the national state, have returned to the private sector.
And this has two very strong impacts.
The first one is that if you take the inflation of the 54%, it fell to the 2%.
It's to say, it fell 27 times.
So it's divided by 27 times.
That means we're going to go from an inflation that was 17.000 anual to something similar to the 28% anual.
But not only that.
You can take the inflation consumidor.
The last inflation of the consumidor was from 2,7%.
Now, it happens that we, for a question linked to the balance of the central bank and the stocks of deuda, we still have controls that every day we are eliminating restrictions.
But this is interesting because then we have a monthly devaluation of 2% and then you have the international inflation.
That means that then you have the inflation that you observe in the consumer, you have to rest 2.5%.
That means that the inflation in Argentina, the real inflation, not the inducing, but the real inflation, which is the inflation monetary, is of 0,2% mensual.
0,2% mensual is the 2,4% annual.
It is to be discussed if the inflation could reach 17,000% Today we're bringing the inflation forward to the 2,5% annual.
And that's incredible.
And that's what we did with several questions.
The first is that we don't pass by an inflation previa that facilitates, let's say, a program of stabilisation, because when you finish making the monetary money, the consequence is that then you can easily make that demand and you can stabilise very quickly.
Not only that, but also that we don't apply any type of expropriation.
O sea, Argentina, por ejemplo, en la previa de la convertibilidad, que fue el programa más exitoso de la historia argentina, hubo dos hiperinflaciones antes, que estuvo la hiperinflación del Foncin con 5.000% y la de Menem con 1.200%, sino que además tuvo un plan Bónex.
Es decir, es como si nosotros hubiéramos tomado toda esa deuda del Banco Central y hubiéramos hecho un canje compulsivo de deuda.
Con lo cual, nosotros limpiamos el balance del Banco Central, limpiamos una pérdida de 45 mil millones de dólares, todo de manera voluntaria.
Y lo más increíble, lo hicimos en seis meses nada más.
Al mismo tiempo, nosotros no hemos controlado precios, no hemos fijado el tipo de cambio.
Y esto también hay algo que es muy importante.
Todos los programas de estabilización para mostrar logros muy rápidamente, lo que hacían era, antes de anunciar el plan, hacían una recomposición de tarifas.
Y una vez que recomponían tarifas, ahí lanzaban el plan.
Nosotros no podíamos dar ese lujo, así que lo tuvimos que ir haciendo a lo largo de estos meses.
Es decir, las empresas de tener tarifas que cubrían apenas el 10%, hoy cubren el 80%.
Por lo tanto, imagínense la recomposición que estamos haciendo.
Y en ese sentido, también es increíble lo que hicimos, porque si hoy nosotros trabajamos con la inflación, digamos, neta de la pauta cambiaria, estamos en mejores registros que lo que fue la convertibilidad. estamos en mejores registros que lo que fue la convertibilidad.
Y el plan de convertibilidad fue el plan más exitoso de la historia argentina.
And, of course, there's a book, no, un libro, perdón, un artículo que se llama Passing the Back, que es de Gerardo La Paulera, Bozzoli e Irigoyen, que demuestra que el primer gobierno de Menem fue el mejor gobierno en la historia.
Y, básicamente, se sostiene en dos cosas.
En el éxito de la estabilización del programa de convertibilidad y en lo que fueron las reformas estructurales.
So if you look at, when you correct all these elements, our process of inflation is much more genuine, much more profound.
We devolvied libertades to the Argentine, but at the same time, we did a structural reform eight times bigger.
And only did we do with the 15% of the candidates, the 10% of the senators and in the first six months of government.
And our agenda of regulation continues every day and we have still in the same way 3200 reformas structuralists.
That is what it will do is that Argentina is the most free country of the world.
It is more, for having a magnitude, the reformas that we have already done with the DNU 7023 and the law bases, implies that we have jumped 90 seats in terms of economic implies that we have jumped 90 seats in terms of economic It is to say that Argentina has institutions that are similar to the of Germany, France, Italy, and that obviously we want to continue and continue.
Obviously, we're going to pass the levels of economic freedom that reached Ireland in its best moment and we're going to pass the levels of economic freedom from Australia, New Zealand and Suiza.
We're going to be, without a doubt, the most free country in the world.
And that's...
It means that with what we've done today, we're in a path that we can duplicate or multiply by two times and a half our PBI per capita, when one lo corrige by PPP. And this is very interesting because this implica a huge increase in goodwill.
Además, today the Argentina economy is already recovering strongly.
Hoy, digamos, las hipótesis de los analistas estaban sosteniendo que el año que viene estaríamos creciendo entre el 5 y el 6 por ciento.
Hoy JP Morgan corrigió las proyecciones al alza y las llevó al 8 y medio.
No solo eso, sino que además, cuando nosotros hicimos el sinceramiento de precios, la pobreza salió, la verdadera pobreza y era del 57% en enero.
Hoy está en el 46%, es decir, bajamos 11 puntos porcentuales la pobreza.
Parece verdaderamente un milagro.
No solo eso, sino que no se perdieron puestos de trabajo.
Todo este proceso de desinflación, todos decían que íbamos a tener un hundimiento de la actividad económica.
Cuando usted toma el estimador mensual de la actividad económica, que es una proxy del PBI, pero de frecuencia mensual, y lo toma desestacionalizado, en agosto se recuperaron los niveles de diciembre.
When you take the estimator mensual of the economic activity, which is a proxy of the PBI, but of frequency mensual, and it takes the rest of the year, in August, the levels of December.
That is, in the year that we made the fiscal fiscal increase in the history of the human life, we ended up with less inflation, we ended up with less poverty, with better salaries, and also with a PBI more high than the beginning.
And if you look at the dollar, I can assure you that the numbers are phenomenal, because basically the dollar is below the levels that we had when we assumed.
So, the reality is that, and all this, when you take my popularity and the acceptance of the government, they are above the level in which we assumed.
Y usted sabe que el momento de máxima popularidad es cuando asume.
Por lo tanto, esto significa que lejos de quedarnos tranquilos con esto, vamos a ir por más reformas, vamos a profundizar las reformas y le digo, no vamos a parar hasta que Argentina sea el país más libre del mundo.
Es más, hay un trabajo que hizo recientemente un economista argentino que se llama Juan Pablo Nicolini, in the monetary monetary bank and he works in the Federal Reserve and it's interesting because it shows that with only what we have done in terms of fiscal that we ensure that in the lapse of 10 years we can duplicate the PBI per capita it's to say that Argentina could grow to 7% annual
What is...
Muchísimo.
Muchísimo.
Y eso tiene fuertes consecuencias en términos de mejora de la calidad de vida, en caída de la pobreza, en caída de la indigencia.
Por lo tanto...
If in the worst moment we didn't fall in the image and we kept strong in our ideas, now that everything works much better, why are we going to cede?
All the contrary, we are willing to do it with the effort, because we have done things that nobody made.
For example, there is something that seems trivial, but there is what is called the "unicapapela" La Argentina votaba con unas boletas enormes, que sobre todas las cosas era muy costoso.
And that reform, we didn't do it because that always hurt the officialism.
So, everyone talked about the only paper ballot, but nobody did it because when they were in power, they didn't have to apply it because they didn't have to do fraud or do some kind of artimania to not apply that rule that makes it more competitive the election. they didn't have to apply it because they didn't have Well, what is interesting?
We enviamos that law and we aprobamos.
It's more, now we're ending with the PASO, which are the primaries, abiertas, simultáneas, obligatorias, because it was a mechanism for the which the politics robaba.
We're eliminating the financing of the political parties.
If you look at this, we quit 15 points of pressure fiscal to the Argentinian.
We're devolviendo libertades with a profound agenda of reform structural and regulation.
I think that any liberal sane liberal could perceive that we are making a wonderful government.
In fact, it's the best government in the history of Argentina, because if the best had been the of Menem, the of Menem already took several bodies.
Quizás puedas explicarme las métricas de pobreza y el desempleo, como dijiste, el desempleo bajó, el desempleo real bajó, la pobreza real bajó.
Pero dejando eso de lado, ¿cuáles han sido los impactos más dolorosos de estas reformas radicales?
¿Y cuántas de ellas son necesarias a corto plazo para tener un gran impacto positivo a largo plazo?
Vamos por parte, ¿qué es?
Nosotros en rigor empezamos a hacer bien las cosas, por lo tanto nosotros no generamos pobreza.
La pobreza era una pobreza heredada.
El tema es que lo que nosotros hicimos fue sincerarla.
Yo se lo voy a tratar de contar con un ejemplo que creo que clarifica qué es lo que pasa.
Argentina era una economía que tenía controles de precios.
Tenía déficit fiscal.
Lo financiaba con emisión monetaria.
Para que se dé una idea, en el último año, Argentina financió 13 puntos del PBI con emisión monetaria.
Es decir, un verdadero desastre.
So, that generates an artificial stimulation of demand and puts pressure on the prices.
There is a problem that is that the price control is applied, as well as on the prices that ingress in the index of prices.
So, the inflation, I don't mean to lie, was defigured.
And as Argentina is measured by poverty and the indigencies by linear income, So what happens?
That was distorsioning the true poverty levels of poverty.
But that's not the only effect.
So, with what, let's say, the real level of poverty was much higher than what the government showed earlier, that it was in 41% and, also, it was in frequency semestral.
So if you have a trend, you can see a trend, in reality they are leaving a bomb and you don't see it.
Because basically the indicator was measured with a a bit of a rezagging.
But not only that, but also, suppose that you are in the middle of a island alone and you give a million dollars.
What can you do with that?
No.
No puede hacer nada porque no puede comprar nada.
Es lo mismo que entonces a usted le diga que el precio de los anteojos son 10 dólares, pero cuando usted lo quiere comprar no hay.
There's a humor that tells you, a professor who calls Juan Carlos de Pablo, who says that a man goes to a bazaar and asks a jarrón.
Then he says, well, I want that wine.
How much do I pay?
Then he says, $5,000.
Okay, $5,000.
But why $5,000?
If it's $1,000.
Entonces dice, bueno, vaya y cómprelo enfrente a mil.
Ah, no hay a mil.
Bueno, entonces acá cuando no haya más también costará mil.
Es decir, precios a los que hay.
Entonces, ¿qué es lo que pasa?
Usted cuando estaba frente a esa situación, las góndolas del supermercado estaban vacías.
Entonces, ¿de qué le servía tener un precio al cual usted no podía comprar nada?
Usted dejaba esos precios.
Las góndolas estaban vacías.
Entonces las estadísticas mostraban que usted estaba muchísimo mejor, pero la realidad es que no podía comprar nada, no podía materializarlo.
Entonces, si usted dejaba la situación como estaba, la gente se iba a morir de hambre porque no podía comprar nada.
Sí, tenían X pesos que podían comprar supuestamente X bienes, pero esos bienes no estaban disponibles.
Lo único que usted puede hacer para salvar gente que es sincerar los precios y que los productos vuelvan a aparecer.
Bueno, cuando usted sincera los precios, se sincera el costo de la canasta básica alimentaria, la básica total, es decir, la línea de pobreza, perdón, la línea de indigencia y la línea de pobreza respectivamente.
Y cuando usted hace eso, claramente usted va a tener un salto de la pobreza.
Eso llevó la pobreza al 57%.
Ahora, Argentina encontró su piso de actividad en el mes de abril.
A partir de ese momento, Argentina empezó a inventar una recuperación cíclica.
Los salarios reales vienen creciendo todos los meses por encima de la inflación, o sea, creciendo.
Por lo tanto, los salarios nominales le está ganando la inflación.
De hecho, ya estamos en niveles similares a los que teníamos en noviembre.
Lo mismo para las jubilaciones.
Es más, también, digamos, usted tiene un rebote de actividad por la recuperación del ciclo de stocks.
Por lo tanto, eso también está contribuyendo a que haya más puestos de trabajo y mejor remunerados.
De hecho, esto es tan fuerte y tan evidente que los salarios que más están creciendo son los del sector informal.
That means that poverty and indigencia are falling much faster than what we imagine.
But not only that.
If you eliminate the inflation...
That's why you eliminate the inflationary tax, but the real cost is the deficit fiscal, which was 15 points of the PBI.
Okay, we were transitively subbed the tax tax, now we're going to lower the tax tax, but we're going to return to the Argentine tax tax.
We're going to return 15 points of the PBI.
No only that, but when you eliminate the inflation, eliminate the cost of the relative prices.
Therefore, the assignation of resources is much better.
Not only that, but also with the strong fiscal adjustment that we did, we have reduced the country's risk of 3.000 points to 770.
Hoy a Argentina Fitch le elevó la categoría a triple C.
Entonces, ¿qué es lo que quiero decir?
Eso se traduce en un menor riesgo país, se traduce en menores tasas de interés y eso genera un aumento de la inversión y genera un aumento del consumo también.
Es decir, que la economía argentina en este momento está en un momento absolutamente floreciente.
¿Y eso cómo se sostiene a largo plazo?
Con reformas estructurales, que es lo que hacemos día a día, regulando la economía y enviando nuevas leyes que liberan a los argentinos de la cantidad de trabas y regulaciones opresoras que la han castigado en los últimos 100 años.
As Has hablado sobre la casta, el sistema político corrupto.
Así que hay mucha gente poderosa y grupos que están en contra de tus ideas.
¿Qué se necesita para luchar cuando tanto poder está en tu contra?
Mire, nosotros hemos dado la lucha contra la corrupción como nunca se ha hecho en la Argentina.
De hecho, nosotros cuando asumimos, por ejemplo, había cerca de 900 piquetes por año.
Es decir, gente que se dedicaba a cortar las calles.
No dejaban transitar libremente.
Y además se les daba planes sociales y les daba un montón de dinero.
Si usted recuerda cuando yo arranqué explicando los recortes, una de las cosas que dije es quitamos del medio a los intermediarios de la pobreza, o sea, los gerentes de la pobreza.
Es decir, esos que vivían de robarle a los pobres.
Bueno, eso, digamos, es una fuente de corrupción enorme.
De hecho, cuando nosotros hicimos eso, Thank you.
A los dos días, uno de los piqueteros más renombrados y más influyente llamó a hacer una manifestación.
Él decía que iban a ir 50.000 personas porque básicamente estaba esperando 100.000, entonces quería mostrarlo como un éxito.
And then, at the time that we took the capital human to cut the financing, we also had the protocol anti-piquetes, where the people who cut the street didn't take the plans and the people who violated the law would be arrested.
And this was what we were informed from the means of transport.
Bueno, esa marcha que ellos esperaban que fueran, en realidad, 100.000 personas, terminaron yendo 3.000 personas.
Y a partir de ahí no volvieron a cortar más las calles.
No solo eso, sino que además, evidentemente, les cortamos esa corrupción.
Una de las cosas que también generaba muchísima corrupción era la obra pública.
Another thing that generated great corruption was the transfer of discrecional provinces.
In general, those transfer of provinces were made to the most obscure possible provinces.
So the national government, in conjunction with the governors, we ended up using the money in other things.
Not only that, so that there we have done many things.
Además, el Ministerio de Capital Humano todo el tiempo está denunciando en la justicia, no en los medios, en la justicia, actos de corrupción como nunca se hizo en la historia argentina.
No solo eso, sino que además, en términos de condenar la corrupción, o sea, hemos hecho, por ejemplo, en el día, hace dos días se condenó, digamos, a Cristina Fernández Kirchner, digo, por corrupción, y al otro día, o sea, digo, por corrupción, y al otro día, o sea, ayer, le quitamos las jubilaciones de privilegio.
Al mismo tiempo, estamos, por ejemplo, hemos descubierto que el kirchnerismo utilizaba pensiones por discapacidad para actos de corrupción.
Por ejemplo, hay una ciudad que tiene más pensiones por discapacidad que gente.
Es decir, para que más o menos tenga una idea de las cosas que se hacen en Argentina.
And also, in Argentina, we've come back to give freedom to the justice.
We don't press on the justice.
And this is so, that during my government, no only did it go to Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, but also did it go to the two terrorist attacks that did Iran.
So, if there's a government that's really fighting against the corruption, we're not only that, but also, with every deregulation, it's a privilege to quit either to a politician, Or a company or a group of power.
And that's also very powerful.
Nobody in Argentina has fought against the corruption of the way we have done.
It's more, I tell you something that is profoundly corrupt and is one of my great fights.
is the corruption of the media communication is to say I quit the official pauta that you will see that despite that we generate wonderful news every week in large amounts the media communication speak pestes they reclaman having the monopoly of the microphone
they want to mentir calumniar injuriar ensuciar to say any aberration and pretend that they can't even answer why most of the journalism in Argentina odia the red X and why we liberals and libertarians we love the red X because we can say However, these supposed journalists that defend the freedom of expression, in reality what they want is that they censure the ideas that they don't like.
And of course, because they are of the left, because they are WOCs, because they can't support the competition.
Because if they had to fight face-to-face, hand-to-face, in a field leveled by ideas, they would lose.
Because they were a failure in the economic, in the social, in the cultural.
And also, no hay que forget that those assassins, called socialists, killed a 150 million people.
So, they clearly cannot fight the same.
So, they exiged that social media have a censure and that they cannot say the truth.
Because when one says the truth to a socialist, they say that it is the discourse of the odio.
No, no es discurso del odio.
Es que ustedes son unos inútiles que han arruinado el planeta.
Han hecho del planeta algo muchísimo peor.
Y que afortunadamente hoy, gracias a las redes sociales, en especial por la tarea enorme y valiente de Elon Musk y el rol que tiene Twitter, digamos hoy X, ha permitido que la información fluya y eso permite dejar expuestos ha permitido que la información fluya y eso permite dejar expuestos a los políticos y expuestos también a los medios de Y por eso los periodistas en Argentina están tan violentos.
¿Por qué?
Porque antes ellos podían, digamos, por ejemplo, iba un periodista y por ejemplo iba y le iba una persona y le tiraba una carpeta y le decía si vos, si vos no me pones X cantidad de dinero, voy a sacar todo esto y te voy a ensuciar.
And to me, it consists of a case where a journalist made this extorsion two times to a empresario.
That empresario said that he didn't pay him, And, evidently, the journalist did not do.
Obviously, he went to the justice, there was a trial, and that journalist lost two times.
It's to say, but that process is very slow and in the middle, ensuciaron.
So, like the justice takes a lot, then what is the problem?
The problem is that in the middle, to you ensuciaron the life.
Entonces, ¿por qué los periodistas pueden hacer todo esto?
Bueno, por eso les molesta X, por eso les molesta las redes sociales, por eso les molesta la nueva forma de comunicación, porque les quitó el monopolio del micrófono.
Y al sacarle el monopolio del micrófono, les sacó los beneficios económicos de la extorsión.
Entonces, claramente esa es otra de las peleas que tengo.
Usted lee un diario en Argentina y el 85% de lo que usted lee es mentira.
Es decir, la característica fundamental de la mayor cantidad de periodistas, no digo todos, pero la gran mayoría de los periodistas en Argentina, salvo honrosas excepciones, son mentirosos, son calumniadores, son injuriadores.
Y si aún persistiera el monopolio que ellos exigen que vuelva a reinar, no tengo duda que pedirían dinero a cambio de silencio.
Porque son eso, son extorsionadores, son ladrones, son corruptos.
And then, of course, when you take a privilege or a sector, what do you do?
Well, welcome to the freedom.
So, you're not only looking for the freedom economic, you're also looking for the freedom of expression.
Exactly.
I'm looking for the freedom in all aspects of life.
I mean, one of the things that I think is most interesting is that when the Berlin wall fell, It's true, it officially fell in the year 1989, but the reality is that the socialism fell in the year 1961, which was when they had to build the wall.
The wall was built because the people went from the Germany communist to the Germany capitalist.
They realized that the Western side was much better.
And to avoid that people were leaving, What a maravilloso system!
They had to try people, they had to try people.
They had to apply them to a pistol.
They killed 150 million human beings.
So, what happened?
The official crash of the muro, in 1989, was the failure of socialism.
In that context, the socialists passed away from the discussion of the lucha of classes in economics and brought them to other parts.
So, for example, the socialism, or what is the 21st century, or the Marxism cultural or the post-Marxism, the definition that you want, is to bring the lucha of classes A distintos aspectos de la vida.
Por ejemplo, uno de los aspectos de la vida donde usted tiene...
Esto es la ideología de género.
It's incredible because the first ones who defended equality against the law were the liberals.
The first ones who defended the rights of women were the liberals.
Jeremy Benham was the first one who claimed equality against the law of women.
It's to say, the cause of equality against the law for women and the equality of rights, the first ones who did that were the liberals.
However, What is the left side?
It goes to a radicalization of it and then it goes to what is called the embrism.
The embrism is the death of the macho.
And that is, you know, how do you do it?
They do it asignando rights.
But when you assign a right, that someone has to pay.
And that has consequences.
And in general, this happens always.
The consequences, the results are worse than what you had before.
If you had any intervention, the result later is worse than what you had originally.
So, for one hand, the other contracara of this is the environmentalist, which is the man against nature, which has to do with all the ecologism, with all the climate change.
It's to say, no resiste ninguna discusión seria.
Por lo tanto, todas las políticas ambientalistas no es ni más ni menos que una excusa para cobrar impuestos, para que un conjunto de burócratas parásitos vivan a costa de los demás y para financiar ideas siniestras, donde la idea más siniestra de todas estas It's that in the planet Earth there's no place for everyone.
So, one idea, let's say, with Malthus, let's say, at the beginning of the 19th century, one idea assassinated, that also, for example, the Egyptians against the Jews, and that consta in the book of Shemot, or Exodus, Or, for example, Black Lives Matter.
Negros contra blancos.
O, digamos, pueblos originarios contra las comunidades que están establecidas.
O, digamos, todo lo que tiene que ver con el LGBT. En definitiva, son formas que el socialismo llevó la lucha de clases a otros aspectos, generando, digamos divisiones y mentiras digamos que lo único que hacen es chupar impuestos digo ¿qué era lo que hacía el ministerio de la mujer en Argentina?
¿logró bajar un femicidio?
no, ninguno digamos la cantidad de femicidios explotó igual sí, de hecho digamos el presidente más feminista de la historia argentina el señor Alberto Fernández molía a golpes a su mujer digo qué feminista And within the lines of feminists you find the majority of violators and violators of women.
It's quite interesting what they do.
The hypocrisy in which they work.
The battle is in three planes.
In the economic plane, That is the capitalism of free enterprise.
In this moment, the system that has designed the world is the liberal democracy with control of power.
And in the plan of the idea of the cultural battle.
Fíjense, the socialism has been very successful in the cultural battle.
He's been very successful politically because that political battle could lead to winning many elections.
But why is it going to be re-established?
Why?
Because they produce misery and because the economic system is a disaster.
So people, later or later, realize that they are going worse.
The liberals, libertarians, are very good in the economy.
And those good economic results can generate solid processes.
But what happens?
The liberals didn't have the cultural battle.
Dio gran parte en culpa por Fukuyama cuando dijo este es el fin de la historia.
No fue el fin de la historia porque al otro año, en el año 90, los socialistas se agruparon en el Foro de San Pablo y basado en las ideas de Gramsci diseñaron una estrategia de meterse en los medios de comunicación, en la cultura y en la educación que terminó cambiando toda la discusión de la sociedad en la cultura y en la educación que terminó cambiando toda la discusión de la sociedad y ellos impusieron que lo políticamente correcto era lo que ellos decían y que cualquier idea fuera de eso era reaccionar
Y que ellos eran los que defendían la libertad, a pesar de que eran los que perseguían a la gente.
Es lo mismo que pasa con los periodistas que se enojan con Twitter.
Ellos dicen que defienden la libertad, pero no se bancan que hablen los que piensan distinto.
¿Es libertad?
Sí, para eso, pero para los que piensan distinto no.
Eso no es libertad, eso es fascismo.
Entonces, ¿qué es lo que nosotros decimos?
So, there is a battle in the economic economy, and I think we're making a very successful program that is being recognized at the world.
In fact, the other night, the president elected Donald Trump just made a recognition of the achievements we have in Argentina, and at the speed of that we have done.
At the same time, you have to give the political battle, because Those football games are not winning in the court, they are winning in the court, but with that only you can achieve.
Because you have to transmit to society the values of capitalism, of the free market, of what is the liberalism, of the value of the freedom.
And when you achieve success in that, So, we're going to be able to advance a firm step.
If you don't give the cultural battle, you're going to happen to what Chile did.
It was a successful economic model.
It was, let's say, in the time.
But at some point he fell.
Why did he fell?
Because they didn't have the cultural battle.
So the socialism of a little bit was taking the institutions, the media of education, the media of communication and the culture, and with that he attacked and broke the system.
And then they found the increases in the socialism.
And the only thing that generates socialism is poverty.
Therefore, what we have to take into account is that You have to fight in all levels.
And if you don't have that present, I say that it's going to collapse.
Like you said before, in this fight against corruption, you're challenging people very powerful, a powerful establishment.
In any moment, you've been tempted by your life.
No.
¿De qué sirve vivir la vida, digamos, en esclavitud?
Mire, hay una canción de un cantante español que se llama Nino Bravo.
Digamos, él ya ha dejado de vivir en la tierra, ha partido al más allá.
Y se llama Libre.
And the song tells the story of Peter Fetcher, a man of 18 years old, who when he does the separation, and he begins to build the wall, his family stays in the west, and he accidentally stays in the oriental.
Y durante un año planea suida hacia el lado occidental y en ese contexto cuando él trata de escaparse lo asesinan.
Entonces, ¿qué sentido tiene la vida si no es en libertad?
Es decir, ¿qué sentido tiene vivir sin pelear por sus valores?
Es decir, ¿yo estoy dispuesto a darle la vida por mis valores?
O sea, ¿qué sentido tiene vivir sin libertad?
Can I tell you something interesting that happened here in the United States?
I, in 1998, came to the United States to make a series of courses to perfection my English.
In terms of formalism, I never use it because now that I'm president, imagine that if I read a word, I have a grave problem.
Fortunately, I have a super estrella and if I'm wrong, even in Spanish, he's correct in the version of the other language.
And as part of that, I went to San Francisco and met Alcatraz.
Usted es joven pero la guía se hacía con un Walkman.
You gave me a walkman, and then I was going to play the different tracks and listening.
And the most interesting thing is that the end of the excursion of Alcatraz was on the recreations, where they were the basketball court, where they were the places to do exercise, everything that had to do with the recreation.
So, any person would think that that was the best part of Alcatraz.
And, sin embargo, lo que contaba es que ese era el lugar más duro para los presos.
¿Por qué?
Porque ese lugar de recreo está hecho frente a la Bahía de San Francisco.
Y entonces los reos veían cómo The city of San Francisco was built and evolved and they were buried.
They could not participate in that.
They were buried.
And that allowed me to take conscience of the value of freedom.
So, for me, the struggle for freedom is incansable.
My hero of the history of humanity is Moisés.
La hazaña de Moisés es como que una persona sola junto a su hermano, Aarón, se enfrentaran a la suma de Estados Unidos, China y Rusia juntos.
Y fue Moisés y le dijo a Ramsés, liberá mi pueblo.
Bueno, Ramsés se resistió y las fuerzas del cielo se lo llevaron puesto a Ramsés.
Pero a lo que voy es...
I don't see another way of living in freedom.
And if there's no freedom, I'm going to be fighting.
And I'm going to be fighting ahead.
It's a cause that...
I'm going to go.
I don't want to resign to live in a way that we are in freedom.
I'm going to fight everything I have to fight.
At least that's my way.
So, what is it worth being alive and encerrado?
What is it worth being alive and free?
No, it's not.
What is it worth being Peter Fetcher?
It worth being alive in the communist Germany.
At least he had a moment of happiness while he tried to escape.
Another man who fights for freedom, in this case, freedom of expression, is your new friend Elon Musk.
What is it that you admire?
And what has learned from your interactions with Elon?
I have a huge admiration for Elon Musk.
It is...
It's a person absolutely out of what conventional.
First, he's a great leader of the ideas of freedom, what he did in Twitter, or in X, and how he did it.
Ayudando al mundo a despertar y a tomar conciencia del virus socialista, del virus woke, eso ya solo eso lo convierte en un héroe de la historia de la humanidad.
Pero no es solo eso.
Una de las cosas que me pasó es que cuando yo fui a hablar con él creí que me iba a encontrar con un empresario exitoso.
I'm going to go.
of the one with a successful business, that understands that some of their own businesses are exotic, but that is in general the conversation that you have with a business.
They are truly admirably because they are the great benefit of society, but they are very focused on the issue of the business.
And one of the things that made me a shock when I was known, was that we had a pact with a meeting of no more than 15 minutes, The first time we were meeting for about 45 minutes, because we were losing our flight.
So we saw that if you don't fly in the terms pact, you have to reprogram it.
And then you lose a lot of hours in a number so important.
Imagine that every minute costs a lot.
And one of the things that happened was that, basically, it was a topic of demography.
And we started talking about demography and growth.
I never imagined that with a business, I was going to talk about demography and growth.
There also appeared something very funny and of a lot of humor, because he told me that, well, we shared our vision on the demographic issues, that we had to poll the planet.
And then he said, well, you know, you know, you know, I have five children.
I said, I have five children.
He said, look, the four-pats don't count.
That was the first meeting I had with Elon Musk.
La segunda reunión fue cuando aquí en las universidades empezaron a haber manifestaciones antisemitas y donde básicamente se ponían banderas de palestina y se agredía y se perseguía judíos.
And in that moment, when we had that second talk, he was very deeply involved with that and he asked me the question of the cultural battle.
It is to say, this, not even in the political perspective, is so conventional.
And in the last talk that we had, which we were about two hours and a half, One of the things we were talking about is about freedom and what played the United States in this election.
So, it's a person who's very above the media.
It's a person who's not conventional intelligence.
And also he's very nice.
I have a great admiration for him.
I have a profound interaction with him.
He is very interested in our ministry of regulation, which has to do with the elimination of regulations, but at the same time he works with another person who is interested in the motosierras.
So I'm very happy because they are copying, they are trying to copy the model that we are applying in Argentina.
And also, Donald Trump is very entusiasmado with that.
So, and everything that is eliminate regulations, that is cortar the public, that is quitar the state of the media, means more freedom for the people.
So, I'm very happy with everything that is happening with Donald Trump, because Estados Unidos is going to be better, Argentina is going to be better, and everyone is going to be better.
Today the world is much better than the one we had before.
Como mencionaste, Elon y Vivek Ramaswamy están al frente del Departamento de Eficiencia Gubernamental DOJ. Entonces, según tu experiencia de este año como presidente de Argentina y todas las políticas económicas suicidas que has implementado, ¿qué consejo le darías a Elon y a Vivek sobre cómo aplicarlo en Estados Unidos?
Que vayan al hueso.
Que vayan al hueso.
Digamos, le voy a contar una anécdota, le va a encantar.
Nosotros en este momento en Argentina por el equilibrio político que nos hemos encontrado tenemos ciertas facultades delegadas del Congreso hacia el Poder Ejecutivo y por ende lo podemos resolver por decreto.
El ministro de desregulación, Federico Sturzenegger, en su ministerio y cuando a la vista de todos, muestra la cantidad de días que quedan de vigencia de esas facultades delegadas. muestra la cantidad de días que quedan de vigencia de Por lo tanto, tiene todo un departamento desde regulación, tiene un departamento de recortes del gasto público y de la estructura del Estado y tiene todo un cuerpo de élite que va limpiando todas las leyes que obstruyen el sistema económico. tiene un departamento de recortes del gasto público y de
Y cada día quita entre un y cinco trabas que tiene la economía.
Entonces, lo que yo diría es que avancen al hueso, que vayan al límite y que no bajen los brazos.
Además, esa agenda no tiene costos políticos, porque en el fondo usted está quitando privilegios y...
And if there's a lot of people who are going to quit, no doubt.
But they're people who are losing privileges.
So they'll have to explain to the society why they keep those privileges.
And that's why it's quite uncomfortable.
You've spoken with Donald Trump and, supposedly, he called you his favorite president.
What did they say?
And, again, what do you think of President Trump and what has learned from him?
Hay varias cosas que yo admiro del presidente Trump.
La primera es que probablemente, y ha dado pruebas más que suficientes en su primer presidencia, que entiende la naturaleza de la batalla cultural.
Él ha enfrentado al socialismo abiertamente.
Sus discursos van en contra del socialismo de manera abierta.
Entiende perfectamente el virus woke.
And that is of much value because it's understanding of what's going on.
Not only that.
Another thing that I also admire is the courage.
In fact, thanks to God, no lo killed, but it was because of a small act fortuitous that was just that he just ran away.
And, sin embargo, that's not what it was.
It's more, in his first campaign and in this third campaign, I think I'm really impressed with you.
Probably a nadie en la historia le hayan hecho una campaña negativa desde todos los medios de comunicación como me lo hicieron a mí.
Pero digamos, fueron bastante parecidas.
De ahí, por eso es tan interesante, por eso me emocioné tanto cuando anoche lo conocí a Sylvester Stallone.
Porque Sylvester Stallone justamente lo que menciona It's so valuable that even though they keep going, they keep going, they keep going, they keep going, they keep going, they keep going.
Es decir, muchas de las formas de ver las cosas de Silvestre de Stallone son sumamente inspiradoras.
So imagine, I'm going to give the speech and see a Sylvester Stallone and Sylvester Stallone knows.
It was really, I had to say, this can't be true.
Además, la gente ha sido maravillosa anoche conmigo, ha sido maravillosa hoy, he sacado cientos de selfies.
Ha sido mi recreo después de casi un año de estar en el gobierno y de estar sometido a todo tipo de tortura mediática, porque justamente los periodistas ensobrados, corruptos, son torturadores profesionales.
Because they met with one, and they also met with the family, and they met with the intimation.
I'll tell you something, for you to see the garbage that they make the media in Argentina.
I put three drones in my presidential house to espiar me.
Do you think that's correct, right?
For nothing.
Exactly.
But that, for example, happens in Argentina, and I have to talk about the mentiras and the aberrations that they tell us.
I remember, in a moment, my father was interned.
My father is a man of a strong character, who has two cardiac interventions.
And, for example, a day, a journalist said all kinds of lies about my father.
My father was interned.
And, for little bit, he died from an attack to the heart.
That's what happens in Argentina.
In my case, even with my dogs, they're the most wonderful ones that exist in the universe.
They also meet with my children with four legs.
So imagine that I've been doing almost a year of gestion, where, as far as I can't criticize the gestion, except for lying and deforming the numbers, I've been doing all these things, things that I've been doing since the year 2021, all the time.
Or, since I've been officially in politics.
So, I've seen the things that I've done to Trump, So that's why I also have a lot of affinity with him.
Because he's a real guerrero.
He's a king.
He's literally a king.
So he's a king that I admire for how he's been fighting against adversity, against it, against it, and even so, to win.
And, well, so that's why I'm so so identified.
And also I've seen how it has criticized injustly the issue of when he was accused of protectionist or when he wanted to discuss some issues, but in the public debate and understandable about the design of the monetary policy of the Federal Reserve basically they have accused of things that can't be opinionated as president.
It can be opinionated as any citizen, and more as president.
Why is it important for you that Argentina has a close relationship with the United States?
Well, for us it is very important because we have decided to be a geopolitical ally of the United States.
We have defined from the campaign that our ally, or that we are going to be from the United States and Israel.
Because basically representan las ideas de Occidente, representan el mundo libre.
Es decir, lo que hoy llamaríamos la democracia liberal, digamos, enfrentado a los autócratas.
Y en ese sentido, ese es el alineamiento geopolítico.
Es más, fíjese, en nuestra campaña nosotros fuimos muy, pero muy, muy claros en tres ejes.
One in the economic, we talked about cutting the public money, and I appeared with a motorcycle, I talked about the economic freedom, which has to do with all the regulation, and I talked about the competition of the money, and the people, we were going to do dollars, so it is clear that the economic we were going to do dollars, so it is clear that the economic policy was clear, and not only that it was clear, but that we That's the first point.
The second point was our policy of security, was to give a battle, let's say, frontal to the crime and to everything that had to do with the insecurity.
And in fact, in Argentina there are no more piquets that said that it was impossible to end with it.
No only that, we've reforzated the security forces, and we've reforzated our armed forces, and we're doing a hard struggle against the narcotráfico, against the narcoterrorism.
Therefore, we're also struggling with it.
Fíjense que esos dos puntos, que eran las necesidades más, las preocupaciones más grandes de los argentinos cuando nosotros asumimos, hoy están como en quinto y sexto lugar.
Hoy lo problema de los argentinos es la corrupción, si hay desempleo, si hay pobreza, pero no la inflación y no la inseguridad.
Y no solo eso, sino que el tercer punto que yo declaré es que iba internacionalmente a estar alineado con Estados Unidos e Israel.
Y fíjense, en los actos de campaña aparecían filas con banderas de Israel.
Con lo cual está claro que nuestra política internacional siempre fue muy clara y...
And basically, I think I was going to say in my discourses when I talk about the values of the Occident and the hazaña civilizatoria of the Occident.
In fact, ayer...
And in the speech of today's morning, I was also much more precise, making reference to when all the different peoples griegos are joined to fight the Persians.
It is to say, from that time, 500 years before C. until today, that dispute continues, right?
But well, then...
And also...
with the hope that the United States will be the leader of the West, that if someone would be able to make America again big, and that, in that process, in that process, to be a commercial ally, is also a great idea.
So we want to expand our commercial interests and our conflicts in terms of investments and, like, we also want to be part of the OTAN.
Do you think it's possible?
One of the radical ideas that you had while you were elected was to dolarize the Argentina economy.
Do you think it's a good idea?
Do you think it's possible?
A ver, we'll be part of the...
Digamos, yo, si usted revisa todas mis declaraciones, yo hablo de competencia de monedas.
No hablo estrictamente de dolarización.
Hablo de competencia de monedas y de eliminar el banco central.
Si después la gente decide abrazar el dólar es un problema de la gente.
En el fondo lo que yo digamos termina ocurriendo en el modelo que yo propongo es una canasta de monedas acorde a las necesidades de los individuos.
But I'm not going to skip the discussion.
It's more, today there's competition in monedas.
If you, let us say, in Argentina, you want to make transactions in any monedas, you can do it.
And it's allowed.
It's to say, there's competition in monedas.
The other thing that we're talking about is the concept of, if we're talking about dollarization, we're talking about dollarization endógena.
El primer punto es que usted tiene que sanear el Banco Central.
Nosotros tuvimos que enfrentar el problema de la CIRA, digamos la deuda comercial del Central de 50 mil millones de dólares.
Todavía tenemos pendiente de resolver el problema de los dividendos por 10 mil millones de dólares.
Y en el medio hicimos un rate off y una limpieza en el balance del Banco Central por 45 mil millones de dólares.
Es decir, usted no puede cerrar el Banco Central si está quebrado porque en realidad usted necesita rescatar toda esa deuda del Banco Central.
Que es la emisión monetaria y los pasivos remunerados.
Terminamos con los pasivos remunerados, nos queda la base monetaria.
Por lo tanto, hoy tenemos un régimen donde la cantidad de dinero está fija, la base monetaria amplia no crece.
Y en la medida que la demanda de dinero crece, como pueden utilizar los dólares, no necesitan ir y vender los dólares y hacer que el peso se aprecie.
Sino que pueden hacer las transacciones en dólares.
Y eso va a hacer que en la medida que la economía crezca, usted va a tener una mayor proporción de dólares respecto a peso.
Y en un momento la cantidad de peso respecto a los dólares va a ser tan grande relativamente que cerrar el Banco Central va a ser una cuestión de un chasquido de dedos.
Es decir, con lo cual esto está funcionando.
Now, I tell you, if you take the money and give it to me, I'll do it.
Yes, I don't have any problem.
If you, for example, I had a proposal to do it and it worked out because the biggest acreage of the national bank is the central bank.
But, let's say, the Banco Central's taxes were 20 cents.
If I had sold those taxes to 20 cents, and today they're going to pay between 60 and 70 cents, Digamos, con un conjunto de nerdentals que son parte de la oposición, que además de ser brutos en economía son malintencionados, yo hoy estaría preso.
Permíteme hacerte una pregunta muy importante, pero difícil a la vez.
Soy un gran admirador, y lo he sido toda mi vida, de los jugadores Diego Maradona y Messi.
Para ti, ¿quién es el mejor jugador de fútbol de todos los tiempos?
From my point of view, I've seen him play a Maradona.
I saw him play a Maradona in his last year in Argentinos Juniors, before going to Boca, in the 80's, and I saw him play in the 81's.
I saw him play a Boca in the 70's, in the 79's.
And I've enjoyed the talent of Maradona.
But without a doubt, the best football player of all the time, not only Argentina, but all the time, even better than Pelé, is the case of Messi.
There is an article that has been many years ago called Messi is impossible.
And he has a relevancy of all the parts where a player intervenes, in what has to do with a player from the middle of the cancha to ahead.
And the most incredible thing is that Messi is the best in all aspects of the game.
You can be the best in one or two facettes.
For example, Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, was very good in two facettes of the game, he almost was at the level of Messi, but in the rest of the facettes he didn't participate.
However, Messi is the best in all the facettes of the game, in that moment.
He is a player that is very mature, I don't know if we keep these records, but the reality is that I've never seen a player like Messi.
I've never seen anything like that.
And if it's more, if you corrige the amount of goals that he did Messi and what he corrige by the average of goals, But no solo los números.
O la victoria en la Copa del Mundo.
Son los momentos de genialidad en el campo de juego.
Creo que Messi es diferente a cualquier otro en ese sentido.
Messi hace cosas que parecen técnicamente imposibles, parecen físicamente imposibles.
O sea, parecen escapar de la lógica humana.
Es como verlo correr a Usain Bolt.
Parece no humano.
Hace movimientos que no respetan la lógica humana.
¿Viste la Copa del Mundo del 86 con Maradona?
Con la mano de Dios, el partido contra Inglaterra.
¿Cómo fue eso?
Sí, lo recuerdo.
Lo vimos en la casa de mi padrino y ver cómo cambió a todo el equipo contrario es una cosa que verdaderamente fue algo...
No se puede escribir, no hay forma de escribir.
Es como que yo le diga, descríbame, digamos, el amor hacia su pareja.
Digo, ¿cómo va a escribir?
No sé, no puede escribir.
Es una cosa maravillosa, o sea, no se puede escribir.
O sea, hay cosas a las cuales, digamos, o sea...
Ponerle palabras lo ensucia.
Yo creo que hay momentos donde algunos seres humanos tienen el privilegio de vibrar más cerca del Creador.
Ejemplo, algunas áreas de Puccini.
O sea, usted va y escucha el área famosa de La Rondín o el área famosa de Giañez Kiki.
Y uno tiene la sensación que le estaba dictando el creador.
¿En qué palabras le puede poner a eso nada?
No le puede decir nada.
Es decir, esos momentos donde los humanos estamos, que tenemos el privilegio, lo digo como género humano, no porque yo esté en esos zapatos, solo como un admirador lo digo, que algunos seres solo como un admirador lo digo, que algunos seres humanos tienen la posibilidad de vibrar tan cerca al Creador, usted no lo puede describir, solo lo puede disfrutar.
O sea, no por nada en el judaísmo no se hace, no se menciona el nombre del Creador.
Porque cómo le va a poner palabras a algo que no...
And I think that those are moments in which humans connect more with the Creator and generate things unique.
No one can describe it.
No one can describe it.
You know what you can do is enjoy it.
And thank you for being a witness of that.
You were a great footballer in your childhood, right?
You were a portero.
Many people would say that it's the most difficult and important position in football.
Maybe you could talk about that experience and in general, what is more difficult, being a portero or president?
Great question.
First of all, if I've been a player, I have my doubts about being a good player.
But, yes, it's very valuable to have been an experience of being a football player.
First, it's the only player that can use the hands in a certain sector of the game, or in the big area.
The other is that it's the only player that can be seen differently.
Además, su entrenamiento es un entrenamiento solitario.
Y lo más importante, digamos, es en el momento cúlmine del fútbol, que es el gol.
Cuando el gol es del propio equipo, están todos festejando del otro lado del arquero, estás solo.
And, on the other hand, he's the one who suffers when he receives a goal, because he suffers from a direct way.
In fact, when he's wrong, he's wrong.
Imagine if a friend makes a wonderful goal, like the Maradona did.
It's wonderful, but it counts for one.
And then the archer takes the ball and puts it inside the arco and it's a goal in contra.
You can imagine.
There's a huge disproportionality.
So, that makes the archer have a very strong character.
He's accustomed to the soledad.
And the power is just that.
Because the moment you take decisions, you're alone.
And not only that, but also when you have a responsibility like the of a president, when you take a decision, it's affecting millions of human beings.
Entonces, igual que el arquero, si usted se equivoca es un gol en contra.
En esto son consecuencias negativas para millones de personas.
Por lo tanto, eso ha sido parte de la escuela de vida que me ha generado las herramientas para hoy poder ser presidente.
It is to say my training in economics, my training in liberalism, having been a football player and having had a very hard time.
What is it so difficult?
What has been the cost of taking the hope of a nation on your shoulders?
That they are getting angry, angry, all the days.
Pero...
But, of course, the life doesn't have a sense if it's in freedom.
So, as you say, the secret of life is to keep moving on despite the coups that one receives.
And, fortunately, we've been able to keep moving on despite the coups, both front and back.
Because, digamos, it would have been more honest that they would have to go on the front.
But, digamos, in Argentina, digamos, the political and the media of communication, they like to attack on the back.
What role has God done throughout your life?
And who is God for you?
Bueno, la fe ha sido un elemento, le diría que fundamental.
En especial en el último tiempo en los cuales me he involucrado activamente con las enseñanzas del judaísmo, con el estudio de la Torah.
Ahora, eso me ha dado un background enorme para poder enfrentar las adversidades que he tenido que ir superando en estos últimos años.
And about who is God, God is the creator.
I call him the one.
For you, what is the best guide for humanity, the invisible hand of the market or the hand of God?
They are in perfect sintonia.
Muy bien.
De nuevo, volviendo a tu juventud, eras el cantante principal de una banda de rock.
Para ti, ¿quién es la mejor estrella de rock de la historia?
A mí, desde mi punto de vista, el cantante de rock más impresionante de la historia de la humanidad, sin lugar a dudas, fue Elvis Presley.
Y mi banda favorita son los Rolling Stones.
So I also have a deep admiration for Mick Shager and I still have the dream of being able to meet him in person.
How fun would it be to play with Rolling Stones?
It's a dream very big.
It doesn't make me ilusion, because I put my metas and then I cumple.
Bueno, soy muy amigo de la banda que abre para los Stones, así que me encantaría ver que esto suceda.
Ah, bueno.
O podemos mirar el recital desde el escenario.
Es decir, no puedo seguir estropeando la música a los Rolling Stones.
Ya tuve una banda a tributo y bastante daño le hice a su música.
How many of your star stars of rock define your focus on politics, on life?
Do you see a kind of showman in part?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Mi idea es que cuando usted va a uno de nuestros actos, sea como ir a un recital de los Rolling Stones.
De hecho, en una de mis más recientes presentaciones en el Luna Park, hasta me di el gusto de cantar ante 10.000 personas, It's on YouTube.
No, it's on YouTube.
It's on my Instagram.
I can sing a song called Panic Show and the song starts saying "Hello to all, I am the lion".
"Tu intensidad y pasión te han ganado el apodo del loco, The Madman".
"¿Crees que es necesario tener algo de locura para poder desafiar al poderoso sistema?" Well, it's a problem of definition.
It may be that everyone else is crazy in living in a way contrary to the ideas of freedom.
And then the one who wants to do that is considered a loco.
I don't like the app.
In fact, I even enjoy it.
They say loco since I've been 10 years old, so it's something that I have particularly molested.
Because it's an app that...
Lo han usado durante muchos años, pero la realidad es que cada vez...
Mire, si yo le planteo el caso de San Martín, cuando dijo que iba a cruzar los Andes para liberar a, digamos, no solo a Argentina, sino a Chile y a Perú, decían que estaba loco.
If you had talked to Miguel Ángel, you would have been treated as loco.
If you had hundreds of people who have changed the world, you would have believed that Einstein was loco.
And so we can make a huge list.
So, you know what is the difference between a loco and a genie?
The success.
Let me ask you about the market.
It's very interesting.
From your perspective of the world, how powerful is the market to determine what is better for society?
And why do you think the market also works as a guide for humanity?
First of all, we need to understand what is the market.
El mercado es un proceso de cooperación social donde se intercambian voluntariamente derechos de propiedad, donde se respeta la propiedad privada, que es lo que guía el mecanismo de asignación de recursos.
De hecho, justamente el socialismo, y eso es lo que prueba Mises en su libro Socialismo, When you eliminate the private property, there is a system of prices and, therefore, the resources are on the derives.
It seems like it's the same to make an asphalt or gold.
Why do you do it with gold?
Well, because you just have an idea of the economic calculation, or you have an idea of prices in the head.
In that context, if you don't have private property, you don't have prices, and therefore the capitalism of free empresa is the best mechanism that has developed the human being for the assignation of resources.
Eso también implica que los mercados sean libres, es decir, libres de intervención estatal, porque cuando usted mete al Estado lo que genera es interferencia.
Además, los mercados tienen que permitir la libre entrada y salida, es decir, lo que se llama la competencia, digamos, pero es mejor entender la competencia estatal.
In the sense of Israel Kirchner, one of the most great exponents of the Austrian school, or in the neoclassical form, like William Baumol, which was the concept of free entry and entry in the markets or contestable markets, and also what has to do with the division of the work and the social cooperation.
It is to say, the most wonderful thing in the capitalism It's that you can only be successful serving to the people with better quality and better prices.
If you're successful in the free market, you're a hero.
You're a social worker.
You're a machine of prosperity.
So, as much as you're better, It's very important.
I remember when I was in the first meeting with Elon Musk and that also gave me great admiration for him because And this is what my brother told me.
He told me that he was waking up every day thinking about what problems he could do with humanity.
It's wonderful.
Of course, what is the contrapartes of that?
Ser exitoso.
So in that sense...
Es más, en mi visión sobre el funcionamiento del mercado, no existen las fallas de mercado.
Es decir, ese es un problema de los neoclásicos en función de la matemática que han utilizado para desarrollar el análisis económico, pero no es un problema real de la vida pero no es un problema real de la vida cotidiana, es un problema en la cabeza de los economistas.
De hecho, mi más reciente libro que se llama Capitalismo, Socialismo y la Trampa Neonclásica justamente aborda eso.
Sí, has expuesto estas ideas en capitalismos.
Socialism and then in La Trampa Neoclásica.
Entonces, la trampa es que no existe un término medio, sino que ya sea capitalismo, socialismo y cada término medio también acaba en un estado de socialismo.
Bueno, de hecho eso es lo que decía Mises, que era...
There were only two systems, the capitalism of enterprise and the socialism.
And that is proved in the Hayek's book, and it is that any intermediate solution is inestable in terms of capitalism.
It is to say, it tends to be socialism.
So, when you generate an intervention, you generate more intervention, and that implies a trance that leads you to a more intervention.
And in that, the neoclásics, with what they define the market, which in reality are problems of math, instead of contributing to a better world, have been functional to increase the levels of intervention.
I'm going to tell you something.
Yo tengo un economista, digamos, como presidente del Consejo de Asesores del Presidente.
El doctor Demian Raidel, que ha estudiado aquí en la Universidad de Harvard, ha hecho su PhD.
Fue tutoriado por Kenneth Rogoff y el propio Rogoff reconoce en el doctor Raidel su mejor alumno.
We, in fact, we're working with Redel just in all these problems that trae, digamos, the interventions that propone, digamos, the mainstream, this supuesta correction of the market.
And days ago, there was a relevancy of algorithms of search and recommendations of politics.
And that was a map that was painted from the red to the blue, where the red was more related to the socialism.
There was an intermediate thing that was the yellow and the blue were the ideas of the market.
And one of the things he discovered in that picture, in that picture, is that the majority You
mentioned your children of four feet.
Please tell me, what has learned about the lives of your dogs?
De mis hijos de cuatro patas lo que he aprendido es el amor incondicional.
De hecho, mi nombre en hebreo es amigo fiel y en el horóscopo chino soy perro.
And if there's something that me characterizes, it's the loyalty, the integrity.
And those virtues you can find in those wonderful beings that are the dogs, which are the dogs, which are the dogs that are in a way.
In fact, they are superior, spiritually, to my case, because I don't forget or forgive those who hurt me.
I remember all those who hurt me.
I remember every one of them.
But I don't have the grandest to forgive them.
The issue of loyalty in politics is that I'm sure there are many people or some people who have been traicioned.
Is that due to your heart?
Depends.
Okay.
Thank you.
Porque...
You, of some people, think that you can expect lealtà, and if those people are going to get hurt, it generates pain.
But there are people of whom you don't expect anything.
Therefore, if they have a trailing, one will feel molested because they know that they were with a person who didn't share their values.
But the politics has that, that sometimes one doesn't find people with the values that one has.
But cost-benefit.
You have to carry this boat forward.
If not, it will let you see it.
No is my case.
I fight until the end.
Are traitors?
Yes.
It's part of the politics.
I don't...
But that there are, there are.
There are many people who have expressed admire your revolutionary spirit.
What advice would you give, perhaps to the most young, about how to live a life like yours and have an impact in the world as you have started to do?
I didn't think I had an impact in the world.
I have defined what are the things that make me happy and I'm according to that.
I'm in a coherent way with that.
And the most important thing is not to give up.
Es más, además nunca ser un tibio.
Yo prefiero llorar porque erré a tener que llorar por no intentarlo.
Es decir, soy un perfeccionista, con lo cual cuando erro, claramente la paso mal.
Pero aún así prefiero ir y hacer.
Si sale mal es parte de la vida, pero jamás me voy a tener que arrepentir de no haber hecho lo que yo creí que había que hacer.
What is the hope of Argentina's future and humanity's future?
That thanks to social media and technological revolution that there is, more people are taking awareness I think it's important to live in peace and prosperity.
And I think that even though the bureaucrats and the elites have fought incansablely to slavize ourselves, there has been a lot of freedom that If we fight, we're going to have a much better world.
Can you repeat your famous words of the word of Viva la Libertad?
How did that mean?
Viva la Libertad, carajo!
That occurred when I did my presentations in books.
When I finished my presentations, it was Viva la Libertad, carajo!
And that accompanied me without thinking about it throughout my life.
In fact, in my presentations, all my speeches terminate.
God bless the Argentines.
God bless the world.
Viva la libertad, carajo!
The first reflects I believe in God.
fervientemente y que tengo un profundo agradecimiento hacia el Creador por las maravillas con las cuales soy bendecido día a día la segunda tiene que ver con el libro de Macabeos 3.19 que dice que la victoria en la batalla no depende de la cantidad de soldados sino de las fuerzas que viene en el cielo que tiene que ver con el triunfo del pueblo judío
los macabeos, en contra de los griegos y recuperar el templo.
Y la última es mi grito de guerra.
¡Ja, ja, ja!
Well, no hay mejor manera de terminarlo.
Gracias por ser un guerrero que lucha por la libertad.
Y gracias por venir a charlar hoy.
Le agradezco enormemente su entrevista.
Gracias además por ser tan educado, porque muchas veces los entrevistadores no lo son.
Tuvo ventanas para poder ser sucio y no lo fue.
Y eso yo lo reconozco y lo valoro.
Y se lo agradezco.
Gracias.
Gracias por escuchar la conversación con Javier Milei.
Para apoyar este podcast, revisa a nuestros patrocinadores en la descripción.
Y ahora, permíteme dejarte con algunas palabras de George Orwell.
En tiempos de engaño, decir la verdad es en sí mismo un acto revolucionario.
Gracias por escuchar.
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