The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1386
Aired: 2026-03-31
Duration: 01:36:02


=== The Boris Wave and Political Collapse (15:16) ===

[00:00:00]  Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen.
[00:00:01]  Welcome to the podcast of the Lotus Cedars for Tuesday the 31st of March 2026.
[00:00:05]  I'm joined by Harry and Peter McCormack and Simon Evans.
[00:00:09]  Got a packed show today.
[00:00:10]  We're going to be talking about how we're just suffering under a dead parliament walking, but we're going to be talking about the nature of the political collapse in the country because everyone can see it.
[00:00:20]  And essentially, we're kind of...
[00:00:23]  Everyone's just waiting for the old detritus to be washed away, aren't they, at this point?
[00:00:28]  Then we're going to be talking about how actually you don't need infinite slave labor to do agriculture in the 21st century.
[00:00:35]  There have been, what were they called, technological advancements?
[00:00:38]  Yes.
[00:00:38]  My God.
[00:00:39]  Automation.
[00:00:39]  The cows can milk themselves now.
[00:00:43]  I've seen that video.
[00:00:46]  It was a tough.
[00:00:47]  Then you were as impressed as I was.
[00:00:49]  And then we're going to be talking about how Restore Britain is actually on the march.
[00:00:53]  And if judging by our first branch meeting yesterday is anything to go by, there are some people who are worried about this.
[00:01:00]  So, right, let's begin.
[00:01:03]  So if we go to the polls quickly, if we can get the right one up, please stand up.
[00:01:08]  There we go.
[00:01:09]  This is a very bizarre split in the polls at the moment.
[00:01:13]  So this is the poll of polls on Politico.
[00:01:15]  This is the average of all the polling.
[00:01:18]  And so that's not good for anyone.
[00:01:22]  I mean, maybe it's good for Zach Polanski and the Greens.
[00:01:24]  It's probably the only person who's actually winning out of this.
[00:01:27]  But that is a country that is politically shattered and fragmented.
[00:01:32]  As you can see, Nigel Farage has definitely gone on his downswing.
[00:01:35]  He was averaging around 30, 31% sort of almost a year ago.
[00:01:41]  Now he's on 25% on average, which is not a government in waiting, I'm sorry to say.
[00:01:46]  And then you've got the Greens, Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems as the only other viable parties.
[00:01:52]  So what do we make of this, folks?
[00:01:55]  Is it a reflection of the fact that has Farage adopted the Ming VAR strategy too soon?
[00:02:01]  Quite possible.
[00:02:02]  Everyone said about Starmer, he just had to not make any significant blunders.
[00:02:06]  He was going to pass the ball into the back of the net, and indeed they did.
[00:02:11]  But you can't sustain that for an entire parliament, I don't think, can you?
[00:02:14]  You've got to show that you've got some substance to you.
[00:02:17]  And also, I think, I mean, this is just off the top of my head, but I think people do associate Farage with Trump to some extent.
[00:02:26]  And the fact that Trump's weather has changed dramatically in the last few weeks and months may also be part of that same, hang on, have we been bedazzled by our own populist, you know, reassuring.
[00:02:37]  Yeah, quite possible.
[00:02:37]  I think Farage made a few dramatic mistakes in bringing so many Tories into his party as well.
[00:02:45]  I really think this has put him on a set of rails now that has not impressed the public generally.
[00:02:50]  And I think that's probably a large part of it as well.
[00:02:53]  Definitely.
[00:02:53]  It's been, I mean, I don't have a dog in either fight, but I think it was very disappointing to see him shore up reform with just so many damaged goods.
[00:03:04]  It just seems extraordinary.
[00:03:05]  The whole point of them was it's supposed to be like we've had enough of the uniparty.
[00:03:08]  Now, please welcome ex-uniparty members.
[00:03:11]  Not just from the Tories, though, from Labour as well.
[00:03:14]  They've been taking in the Boris wave for some reason.
[00:03:17]  I think this is just a reflection of the failure of the state.
[00:03:20]  You've still got a bunch of people holding on to the hope that they can vote harder and things will get better.
[00:03:25]  And there's a lot of apathy in people.
[00:03:26]  I'm one of those.
[00:03:27]  Well, voting harder.
[00:03:29]  Yeah, but I think it's a reflection of that.
[00:03:32]  I think people know there's a problem with the state, whether you're on the left or the right.
[00:03:37]  And people are just kind of hoping, where should I put my vote?
[00:03:41]  If I put it with the Greens, will something get better?
[00:03:43]  And I think the problem is the state itself.
[00:03:45]  And I just think, I think what would be interesting to know here is actually the non-voting number, because it was 40% in the last year.
[00:03:52]  And those are the people that really checked out and don't care anymore.
[00:03:55]  And everyone else is just trying to vote harder to make change, but don't really know where to put their vote.
[00:03:59]  When you say state, do you mean the civil service?
[00:04:01]  I mean the complete architecture of the government.
[00:04:04]  So you would demolish the House of Commons or?
[00:04:08]  No, not myself.
[00:04:09]  No.
[00:04:10]  But you're asking me.
[00:04:11]  What would I do to fix this country?
[00:04:12]  Do you not want to see?
[00:04:13]  I mean, parliamentary democracy is a fairly sort of uniform phenomenon.
[00:04:19]  I mean, maybe we need a French model with the president or something.
[00:04:21]  Is that the sort of thing you think would...
[00:04:22]  I mean, I'm open to discuss it all.
[00:04:24]  I mean, personally, if we have to stick with party politics, I would want to abolish as much of the state as possible, as much of the legislation, taxation, ministries as possible.
[00:04:33]  I think we have a state that is far too big, corrupt, and doesn't work.
[00:04:37]  So, I mean, all of those points are demonstrably true, and I'm not challenging any of them.
[00:04:41]  But I suspect that's not what's going through the minds of the voters.
[00:04:45]  I suspect what they think, what they're thinking is actually, I wish I could find a politics that would actually serve the interests that I actually have.
[00:04:54]  As in, I would like the cost of living crisis to be solved.
[00:04:57]  I would like lower immigration.
[00:04:59]  I would like to see police actually solving crimes and things like this.
[00:05:03]  And so, I think that people aren't so much thinking in those terms, but the more downstream of that when they're thinking about this.
[00:05:10]  Yeah, and interestingly, I think a lot of green voters and reform voters kind of want some of the same things.
[00:05:16]  They've just got different solutions.
[00:05:18]  But I think we really do need a strong anti-establishment movement in this country.
[00:05:22]  And we had it under reform.
[00:05:23]  I think, you know, they were the kings in waiting because there was an anti-establishment movement that was going to kind of fix some of these problems.
[00:05:32]  But as reform have become the establishment, you've seen what's happening into the polling.
[00:05:36]  And so, yeah, I think it's a really sad state of affairs.
[00:05:39]  It is.
[00:05:40]  And so, one of the things that has come out of this, I think, is that's the most notable is basically the death of the Labour and Conservative parties, right?
[00:05:49]  Nigel Farage was saying how the Conservatives aren't a national party anymore, which basically is true, actually.
[00:05:55]  In the same way, the Lib Dems are not actually a national party.
[00:05:57]  They're the party of the sort of affluent South West.
[00:06:01]  The Conservatives are going to become the party of the kind of affluent and aged Southeast.
[00:06:06]  The Greens will end up being the party of the inner cities, so students and migrants.
[00:06:12]  And the Labour Party will become the party of the civil service.
[00:06:15]  It's an extraordinary trajectory for the Conservatives, especially considering that Cameron did a lot of work to try and update and modernize their image, their program.
[00:06:22]  That's the problem.
[00:06:23]  Bringing in a lot of, yeah, a lot of specifically and announced that we need to get minorities visible in the cabinet, you know.
[00:06:31]  And yeah, it's unintended consequences.
[00:06:34]  Exactly.
[00:06:34]  He turned it into an explicitly Blairite party.
[00:06:37]  Yeah.
[00:06:37]  And look at where they've ended up.
[00:06:39]  And so everyone hates the Conservatives for being rubbish backstabbers.
[00:06:43]  Everyone hates the Labour Party for being rubbish backstabbers.
[00:06:47]  And I think what we're seeing from this, what we can really draw from this, is that everyone just wants something else.
[00:06:52]  The consensus of the 20th century, which is you're getting it in blue or red, however you like it, I think that's over.
[00:06:59]  I think when you've only got, what, 34% of people who would still vote Labour and Conservative, they're done.
[00:07:05]  They're both cooked.
[00:07:06]  I remember the first term of Tony Blair and the extent to which the Tories looked like they'd almost been wiped out and they were waiting to see whether they could revive.
[00:07:14]  And they took three terms to do so, you know, but they did come back and there was never any really plausible alternative opposition during that time.
[00:07:22]  This is obviously what's changed now.
[00:07:23]  People have accepted that plausible alternative oppositions can be a thing.
[00:07:27]  I think this is way more existential for the Labour Party.
[00:07:30]  Conservatives, I can see that there's reform voters who are now thinking, well, I'll go back to the Conservatives or I'll go to restore.
[00:07:38]  I think it's way more existential for the Labour Party.
[00:07:41]  think they're functionally finished as a as a party i could also see a scenario where the conservatives and reform do form some kind of merger because if the reform trajectory virtually have already haven't they yeah Yeah, and if you look at the trajectory of the Reform Party, I mean, it's very easy to come out as anti-establishment.
[00:08:00]  I don't think you can flip back to anti-establishment once you drift to establishment.
[00:08:04]  Nobody will believe you anymore.
[00:08:05]  I don't think anyone trusts the party anymore.
[00:08:07]  This is exactly what happened with the Canadian Reform Party, isn't it?
[00:08:10]  Yes.
[00:08:11]  It sprung up, got great ground, and then just merged into the Conservative Party to thoroughly disappoint everyone, as you can imagine.
[00:08:17]  But I think you're exactly right on this, right?
[00:08:20]  I think that the Conservatives probably can survive as a kind of local Southeast regional party for the leafy shires, right?
[00:08:28]  They probably will limp on for many, many years to go.
[00:08:31]  But I think you're completely right.
[00:08:32]  I think the Labour Party, because I mean, like for the Conservatives, the coalition that made up the Conservative Party, at least that makes sense for it, right?
[00:08:39]  You've got sort of wealthy retirees who need to protect their pensions.
[00:08:44]  So that's why they vote Conservative.
[00:08:45]  But the Labour Party used to be, well, essentially the party of the working class, of course, all throughout the 20th century.
[00:08:51]  And the working class being a large constituency in the country meant they always had a very firm voter bloc.
[00:08:56]  But then under Tony Blair, there was a kind of liberal jihad, middle-class jihad that went through the Labour Party where the managerial elites took it over.
[00:09:04]  And that meant, okay, well, we've brought in another constituent, which is essentially the statists.
[00:09:09]  And I'm always loath to use the term statistics because I think libertarians abuse that term a bit.
[00:09:14]  But these people literally are statists, as in they think the managerial state needs to interfere with every aspect of government.
[00:09:20]  And so they brought in loads of migrants, loads of foreigners to be a voting bloc.
[00:09:25]  Well, that's come back to bite them in the rear, as you can see by the rise of the Greens, because they actually are not wedded to.
[00:09:31]  They also encouraged young people into university in large numbers in order to create a voting block as well.
[00:09:37]  That's correct.
[00:09:37]  But they're also going to the Greens.
[00:09:39]  And so the Labour Party essentially are now the party of the civil service, which means that's a large voting block in and of itself, but it's not anywhere near a majority.
[00:09:46]  And so the reason I bring all of this up is because as it stands at the moment, out of the 24 front bench Labour politicians currently in the government, 19 of them are predicted to lose their seats in the next election.
[00:10:00]  Wow.
[00:10:01]  Only 19.
[00:10:02]  Only 19, right?
[00:10:03]  But I mean, that is a bloodbath.
[00:10:05]  And we'll go through some of it.
[00:10:07]  So you've got Starmer in Holborn and St. Pancras.
[00:10:10]  And there are some interesting commonalities that you'll find through these seats.
[00:10:16]  So obviously you've got Stalma here, the predictive green, 70% chance for electoral calculus think that he's going to get wiped.
[00:10:23]  And because, of course, a lot of his voters are going to the Green Party.
[00:10:27]  And a portion of them go to reform, but it's likely to be a green win.
[00:10:32]  But then when you look at the actual demographics, well, what's here?
[00:10:36]  55% white people in his constituency.
[00:10:40]  And so, okay, you're the party who brought in the diversity.
[00:10:45]  And what's the diversity doing?
[00:10:46]  Well, the diversity is betraying you, actually.
[00:10:48]  They're going to another party.
[00:10:50]  So the prime minister getting unseated in an election, even if they don't win the government, is a highly unusual thing.
[00:10:57]  In fact, I can't even think of a time when it's actually happened.
[00:11:01]  I guess, I don't know.
[00:11:04]  I can't think of a time when it's actually happened.
[00:11:06]  When has a prime minister ever actually lost their seat, even if they lose the government?
[00:11:10]  No, I can't think of one.
[00:11:12]  So this is the historic mismanagement of things, as Labour have done.
[00:11:17]  So Starmer will lose his seat, it's likely.
[00:11:20]  But then also you've got just the rest of the Labour right.
[00:11:22]  Here's Shabana Mahmood's seat in Birmingham Ladywood.
[00:11:26]  Again, highly predicted to go to the Greens because the Muslim community has flipped to the Green Party.
[00:11:34]  The Labour, it used to be that I think it was something like 96% of Muslims in Britain voted Labour until very, very recently where they've decided, and we saw this in Gorton and Denton, actually we can just come out for the Green Party.
[00:11:48]  It's kind of similar to what happened to Labour in Scotland.
[00:11:51]  You get a similar thing.
[00:11:52]  Went to the SMP, did you?
[00:11:53]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:11:54]  Sort of almost single-issue party.
[00:11:57]  And of course, I mean, the demographics in Birmingham Ladywood, 22% white.
[00:12:02]  And this was from the 2021 census as well.
[00:12:05]  So these demographics are about six years out of date.
[00:12:09]  Yeah, they're about six years out of date.
[00:12:11]  The census was taken in 2020, which would be pre-Boris wave for the most part.
[00:12:16]  Absolutely correct.
[00:12:17]  So it's pre-Boris wave.
[00:12:18]  So Shobala Mahmood.
[00:12:20]  Going to lose her seat and that's the home secretary, so it's okay.
[00:12:23]  That's again unprecedented and a Muslim home secretary and a Muslim clearly intended to reassure, but not absolutely.
[00:12:30]  But the the problem that she has is that she's actually right wing, like they always complain about her being on the Labor right, and she's more right wing than Farage is on all these issues.
[00:12:39]  Well, we talk about the ethnic vote, but I do think that a lot of young people are going to the greens as well, purely because of the fact that Labour are no longer seen as a left-wing party.
[00:12:49]  I, I I think that's ridiculous, but of course, I see both the conservatives and Labor and all of these as various shades of rather radical extremist left-wing tendencies, frankly.
[00:12:59]  But they are seen as part of the uh centrist, um centre right.
[00:13:04]  Many people would consider it to be uniparty.
[00:13:07]  Well, let me give you an example, as the establishment uh, but they're just seen as the establishment.
[00:13:11]  The greens are perceived by a lot of young people, whether or not they fall directly in line with their own personal politics, as being an anti-establishment party.
[00:13:19]  I've said it a few times.
[00:13:21]  This is anecdotal, but i've run into a friend or two back home at the pub who have said oh, I found your twitter account and i'm like, oh god, here we go.
[00:13:29]  And they go, oh no, I agreed with everything on it.
[00:13:32]  It's like oh okay, not what I was expecting.
[00:13:34]  And we start talking a bit of politics and I say well, who are you thinking of voting for for the next election then?
[00:13:38]  And they say well, greens.
[00:13:42]  And it doesn't really make sense to me.
[00:13:44]  But from the perspective of well, who do I have to vote for?
[00:13:47]  I have establishment in blue, establishment in teal, or establishment in red, or this party that looks anti-establishment to me.
[00:13:56]  They're going to go with the one that looks anti-establishment.
[00:13:58]  Yeah, and you, you're absolutely right reform, just don't look anti-establishment at this point.
[00:14:03]  So why would you want them, you know?
[00:14:04]  And so anyway, let me give you an example of what you're talking about there.
[00:14:07]  Uh, for example, Hillary Ben in, uh Leads South um, Leads South is a constituency where uh, it's still 68 ethnic white.
[00:14:16]  I mean, that's probably gone down by, you know, probably five or six percent, but still majority white area.
[00:14:20]  But that's going to go green as well probably, either.
[00:14:23]  That reform it's on a bit of a knife edge, but the point that you're making is, I think, correct.
[00:14:29]  A lot of young people just view the greens as just it's not the system.
[00:14:33]  The question I suppose with young people always is, will they actually vote?
[00:14:36]  I mean, that's historically been their problem, hasn't it?
[00:14:38]  They will respond to pollsters and they will go on marches and they'll wave banners and then on the the important thursday, they lie in and um and forget they're at college.
[00:14:47]  Yeah, I wonder if, as things become more and more existential for young people, looking to the future and seeing that the economy is going down the drain, everything's more expensive, everything's worse, the high street is completely destroyed, and then if you're a white uh Englishman, who's very young, you also see that it's increasingly likely That when the next generations die up, well, when the older generations die off, you may be left as a minority within your own homeland.
[00:15:12]  That kind of renewed pressure on them might get them out to the actual voting booths.

=== Why Young Voters Are Disengaging (15:03) ===

[00:15:17]  This was the one I actually meant to bring up for you on.
[00:15:19]  Hove and Portslate.
[00:15:20]  That's me.
[00:15:20]  That is you, isn't it?
[00:15:22]  It's still 86% white.
[00:15:26]  It's still a very white area.
[00:15:27]  Roughly like me.
[00:15:29]  But they're going green.
[00:15:30]  More like Carl, really.
[00:15:31]  Yeah, no, he is actually more like me.
[00:15:34]  But they're going green.
[00:15:34]  That's interesting how low reform is as well made no impact at all because historically, when we moved there in 2007, they had a Tory MP and had had for many years and it used to be.
[00:15:45]  It was even a hotbed of the like the National Front, I think, like Hover along to Worthing, their own Union Jackson front gardens and things.
[00:15:51]  Well, they've managed to turn it into Libtard Central and so yeah, it looks like this is exactly what you're talking about.
[00:16:00]  It's not that it's ethnic minorities voting for the greens.
[00:16:02]  It's going to be disaffected labor voters who are like, but you're not actually a left-wing party.
[00:16:06]  Can I say this is just personal, but from living there, I feel it's a slightly different thing with the greens.
[00:16:11]  As it was in Brighton, I think it would fall into the bracket of luxury beliefs.
[00:16:15]  I think it's something that they it's almost virtue signalling.
[00:16:18]  You know well some of their policies, but also the greens with you know people were very critical of Hannah Spencer, but for a lot of people she did come across as much more relatable and much more personable and much more like a real, actual human being than somebody like, for instance, Matt Goodwin, who comes across like a spitting image puppet having uh, prompted your suspicions.
[00:16:42]  Uh yeah, I mean I, I we don't need to go into it now but um, but there's a lot of simple messaging and vibes based messaging coming from the Green Party yes, which appeals to young people.
[00:16:52]  Yeah, I was in, I was in my gym the other day and there's a young girl working at the till.
[00:16:55]  She's doing a levels.
[00:16:56]  I was chatting to her and she was saying she was doing economics.
[00:16:58]  I was like oh, fascinating.
[00:16:59]  So who, who would you vote for?
[00:17:01]  And she said the Green Party.
[00:17:02]  And so which obviously makes no, any sense to anybody who understands like a series of puzzles in which the answer is always the Green Party.
[00:17:10]  I want to see an end to immigration yeah well, that was the confusing thing with my friends, where it's like oh, you agree with everything on my twitter account and yet, exactly yeah, and yet you're going for the party that's going to be as open borders as possible and sees the entire world as a British citizen in waiting, but at the same time again, that's not how they're considering it.
[00:17:30]  What part of dancing on a stage in a leather thong in Trafalgo Square do you not understand?
[00:17:34]  For, for people who are just worried about the money that they're having to spend day in, day out.
[00:17:40]  They're hearing the Green Party, who come across again much more like real people, say, we're going to do whatever we can to make your life less expensive, to make it so that you're not having to struggle day in, day out, and whatever the specifics behind it, that might not all add up and make sense.
[00:17:58]  Most people are not econ nerds.
[00:18:00]  Even econ nerds studying economics at university are not really econ nerds in the way that you would expect them to be.
[00:18:08]  They're not studying real economics, they're studying Keynesian economics.
[00:18:11]  But they'll be.
[00:18:11]  They'll be studying the government money printer, yeah.
[00:18:13]  But I think you're right about this vibe-based politics.
[00:18:16]  It's about intentionality, right?
[00:18:18]  They perceive from the Green Party there is an intention to help a regular person who's just struggling with their bills.
[00:18:23]  Whether that's going to happen or not is kind of irrelevant because at the end of the day, look at the tracks we're on at the moment.
[00:18:29]  There's no light at the end of the tunnel anyway.
[00:18:31]  Even if these people are crazy, well, it's no crazier than the plan for destruction that we're heading down.
[00:18:36]  But look at the messaging again.
[00:18:37]  It's very simple: it's hope, not hate.
[00:18:39]  So if you don't vote for us, you're hateful.
[00:18:41]  Or it's march against the far right and the fascists.
[00:18:43]  So if you vote for us or you're a fascist, tax the billionaires.
[00:18:47]  Obviously, there's an economic problem, but it's the billionaires for us.
[00:18:50]  It's demonizing wealth.
[00:18:51]  So it's a very simple message for a young person to understand.
[00:18:54]  Oh, look, they're fun, they dance, they dress well, they're hopeful, they're nice, they're kind.
[00:18:59]  It's a very easy thing for a young, undeveloped brain to follow.
[00:19:02]  But if you don't actually understand history or economics, because these people aren't studying history, they aren't studying economics in a way they should be.
[00:19:09]  And so they buy and they vote based on vibes.
[00:19:11]  It's the manned army effect.
[00:19:12]  Yeah.
[00:19:12]  No, no, I agree with you.
[00:19:14]  Anyway, so you've got other seats such as Rachel Reeves in the north, where again, her seat, if you see, is mostly ethnic white people, and she's going to reform.
[00:19:26]  So this is quite a common thing.
[00:19:28]  You know, Rachel Reeves, again, Chancellor of the Exchequer, do they lose their seats even if they lose the government?
[00:19:33]  I'm not sure, but she's going to.
[00:19:36]  Then you've got Vec Cooper here, who again, reform.
[00:19:40]  Just she's going to get trounced by reform.
[00:19:43]  She's going to be co-hosting with Ed.
[00:19:45]  Yeah, no, she absolutely is.
[00:19:47]  And Lisa Nandy and Wigan, again, just going to get absolutely trounced.
[00:19:51]  So you can see that there's a distinct sort of draining out of the coalition of labour.
[00:19:57]  The working class of the north is going to the right.
[00:20:00]  The immigrants and the student vote is going to the left.
[00:20:03]  And the Labour Party are left literally representing virtually nobody.
[00:20:08]  Nobody actually wants these people.
[00:20:10]  Because they don't represent anybody.
[00:20:12]  They just represent the civil service.
[00:20:14]  Well, that's the point.
[00:20:16]  I want to say, I do think you're not giving young people quite enough credit.
[00:20:20]  And I think it's a little bit dismissive to just be like, oh, well, they're undeveloped brains.
[00:20:24]  Because again, what you're saying there is that the establishment parties, and I include reform in this as well, for young people, they don't look like they actually represent you.
[00:20:33]  They look like they represent their own interests.
[00:20:36]  And whatever ground reform may have been gaining, they have completely tossed away by going, oh, well, here's everybody that you remember and that you hate from the Tory party leader of Boris Johnson's government, right?
[00:20:49]  And so they're looking at all of these parties and saying, well, none of them represent me.
[00:20:53]  None of them seem to represent real people in this country.
[00:20:58]  The Greens, whatever else you may say about them, look more as though they are trying to represent real people than just their own interests, like all of these other parties are.
[00:21:07]  And this is where there is the gap that Restore needs to fill, that I'm sure we'll talk about more in the third segment.
[00:21:14]  But it's that restore need to, and I think they can do a good job of this as they progress towards 2029, just look like they are real people who have the same concerns as all of the rest of you, represented by people who are not completely disconnected from reality, completely disconnected from the real issues that people are going through day in, day out, young, old, in between, whatever.
[00:21:38]  That's what restore needs to do from the right in a realistic fashion.
[00:21:42]  Then I stand by my point, their brains are undeveloped because they are picking leaders of this country based on a personality context.
[00:21:48]  Well, look at the, just let me finish my point.
[00:21:50]  This is a great and easy example at the moment.
[00:21:53]  Is that if you're going to be voting, you should be at least challenging policy.
[00:21:56]  So the Green Party came out recently and said, we're going to increase renters' rights.
[00:22:04]  Now, if you look what's happened in Spain, they've tried it and it's failed.
[00:22:07]  You look at Argentina, they've reversed their renters' bill and it's reduced the cost of rent.
[00:22:14]  And so there's a perfect example where the economics is proving that the policy doesn't work.
[00:22:20]  Now, you can put this to one of these voters and they'll still defend it as a policy.
[00:22:23]  So despite all the evidence against it being a fader, it increasing rents, reducing the stock, reducing the quality, they will still vote for it.
[00:22:31]  And this is why Zach Polanski is a problem because he's had one discussion so far in economics with Rory Stewart and the war criminal.
[00:22:38]  And he came out and said, oh, my inspiration is Gary Stevenson is a Keynesian socialist.
[00:22:44]  grace bakely who's a marxist and he talked about money multipliers and so you've identified the problem of democracy Yeah, the problem with democracy is we let stupid people vote.
[00:22:53]  Yes.
[00:22:54]  Well, see, the fact that you do have to let, well, in the system that we're in right now, those people's votes still count as much as everybody else's.
[00:23:01]  And I do not disagree at all with the actual policies will not work.
[00:23:05]  And they've been shown time and time again across the world when they've been implemented that they cause absolute economic destruction of people's livelihoods, people's well-being.
[00:23:14]  There's no disagreement there.
[00:23:15]  But again, I think the problem is that you don't look at people saying, my life is getting worse day in, day out.
[00:23:24]  I'm going to vote for the only people who in my local area seem like they want to make my life better.
[00:23:30]  And you don't dismiss them by saying, oh, well, you're just a stupid voter.
[00:23:34]  That's the attitude, I think, that loses people like Matt Goodwin any and all goodwill that reform built up.
[00:23:41]  Because Matt Goodwin has come out so much recently in all of the recent interviews, including part of the one that you conducted with him, and basically said, if you are a normal working person in this country, I look down on you.
[00:23:55]  Yeah, but then hold on.
[00:23:56]  He's environmentally active.
[00:23:58]  Hang a sec, hang on a second.
[00:23:59]  i i i think i think that you're both basically right but just talking at different levels yeah so the the question is it isn't actually why isn't the messaging uh it's not actually from this side The question is from the right is, well, why is the right not properly transmitting this messaging to regular people that says, no, no, we are going to help you.
[00:24:21]  We are going to make your life better.
[00:24:23]  And this is actually going to happen.
[00:24:24]  Zach Polanski is going to make your life worse because he's an idiot and doesn't understand anything about economics.
[00:24:29]  But we actually do.
[00:24:29]  So why isn't our messaging hitting like Zach Polanski's?
[00:24:33]  So it's more about environment.
[00:24:34]  So we're in a captive audience of conservative, maybe libertarian people.
[00:24:38]  And I'm just being honest.
[00:24:39]  When I was at the gym, I didn't turn around to this young girl who was going to vote green and said, you're fundamentally stupid.
[00:24:44]  I offered to buy a copy of Hayek's protoserfedom.
[00:24:48]  And just finish your point.
[00:24:50]  And Bastiat's the law.
[00:24:51]  I said, look, read them.
[00:24:52]  I'll spend time with you.
[00:24:53]  But that's the problem, isn't it?
[00:24:55]  Right?
[00:24:56]  Like, that's you putting on her a weight of expectation of all this extra labor.
[00:25:01]  Like, I don't really want to read Bastiat's on the law or whatever it is.
[00:25:04]  So we need better messaging.
[00:25:06]  Exactly.
[00:25:07]  It's the messaging, right?
[00:25:08]  So how do we explain to them that actually, no, no, we actually know how we're going to make things cheaper for you, right?
[00:25:14]  We should be able to be confidently saying this.
[00:25:16]  Because the Greens have got their fancy economics of, well, we're just going to steal from the rich.
[00:25:20]  And okay, I mean, technically that sounds like it might work.
[00:25:23]  There are going to be second and third order consequences there.
[00:25:26]  But why haven't we perfected a messaging that says, no, no, no, we're going to make sure that things are cheaper for you and that you can get a job so you can afford things?
[00:25:33]  Why aren't we?
[00:25:33]  Then you have to choose it.
[00:25:34]  Are you going to have tactical, honest messaging?
[00:25:37]  Or are you going to go the same kind of advice-based messaging?
[00:25:40]  But that would be honest messaging, right?
[00:25:42]  Even though it would be vibes-based messaging, it is true that, as you say, we've got the evidence to show if we actually stop the state from holding everything down, everything works properly and rents get cheaper, right?
[00:25:53]  That is true.
[00:25:54]  So even if we can approach a true message with vibes-based messaging, if that's how they react.
[00:26:02]  Can I ask just clarification when you say we?
[00:26:04]  I mean the right to.
[00:26:05]  The right, generally, because obviously the Tories, reform, restore, they all have slightly different problems to overcome in that regard.
[00:26:11]  Traditionally and historically, the Tories had the advantage that the country did just work better under their administrations.
[00:26:18]  And then, once a certain amount of prosperity had been restored, people go, right, it's time to redistribute that prosperity and that would cause collapse again.
[00:26:25]  But that has all fractured now and gone.
[00:26:28]  So, I think, yeah, what you need is Thomas Sowell, essentially, isn't it, to come on Newsnight on a regular basis, reincarnated in whatever form, and just lay down some basic precepts of basic economics.
[00:26:37]  But again, I think you're assuming more engagement from the actual people that Harry's talking about than is present, right?
[00:26:44]  Yeah.
[00:26:44]  I think actually the Greens have the right strategy here, which is essentially vibes-based messaging on the things you believe.
[00:26:50]  And so, what the right needs to do is take this very complex but probably accurate economic theory and compress it down into bullet points that will actually exist, though.
[00:26:59]  The bullet points exist.
[00:27:00]  They have been properly transmitted because I'm not aware of what the bullet points are.
[00:27:05]  Do you think it's more important to try and change people's mind and decision on which party to vote for or to get non-voters out to vote?
[00:27:13]  Well, I think they're both very important.
[00:27:15]  The problem with non-voters is you don't necessarily know why each individual person isn't voting, right?
[00:27:20]  So, there are going to be groups and categories, but who knows?
[00:27:26]  And so, I can see why they fight for the politically engaged.
[00:27:29]  But obviously, you want to win over both.
[00:27:31]  I think if you've got a danger, which I do regard the Green Party as being a danger, if they were to get into power, that would be almost an existential threat to the nation.
[00:27:39]  At that point, it's perhaps more, I think, broadly and traditionally, it's more important to awaken your base and get them out, motivate them.
[00:27:47]  But in this case, it's absolutely urgent to demonstrate beyond any kind of reasonable doubt for a reasonably intelligent 18-year-old that the policies they're pursuing will cause ruination.
[00:27:59]  In that regard, Mam Darney might possibly be using that.
[00:28:02]  That's not good enough, though.
[00:28:03]  It's not just that, it's also saying you need to, you don't just lead with saying they're terrible, you lead with saying we are the best and we will do what's right for you in this country.
[00:28:14]  Absolutely, you lead, but I'm just saying it should be unusually to a higher degree than usual, it should be important to provide message warning against the temptations that we've done segments about the Greens before as well.
[00:28:28]  Don't worry, William.
[00:28:29]  No, I don't mean you, I mean everyone, you know, everyone, yeah.
[00:28:31]  But the problem is, like, um, Zach Polanski is actually doing very well at the moment, deflecting all of that because he can just say, We don't care about their opinion, we're just going to steal from the rich, and guess what?
[00:28:42]  You know, everything's going to be great for you, and let's have a little dance in Trafalgar.
[00:28:45]  It's like, okay, I mean, this obviously, you know, people of our age were looking at this thinking, well, that's lunacy.
[00:28:50]  But obviously, people of Harry's age are not thinking that's lunacy, right?
[00:28:54]  See, one of the things is, okay, right, the rich and the billionaires, many of them in this country, genuinely have not done much to endear themselves with the voting public.
[00:29:05]  And I say this from an actually right-wing perspective: the billionaires, like the owner of Next, Lord Wolfson, and others, who immediately following the Brexit vote said, Fantastic, this means we can get more cheap labor in from the Commonwealth.
[00:29:17]  The ones who wanted to take advantage of the system to disadvantage working British people by changing the demography of the country in a way that benefited them financially.
[00:29:28]  That is a documented thing which has happened.
[00:29:31]  Most people do not see it that way because for so long, the sort of discussion of corruption within the higher echelons of society has been completely monopolised by the left.
[00:29:44]  And so, the right does need to occupy some of those talking points, but from an actually true perspective.
[00:29:52]  Saying that when people say it's very easy, I see this all the time for people to say, Well, billionaires are just convincing you that immigrants are the problem.
[00:30:01]  And you need to be honest and say, well, actually, a lot of those billionaires are the reasons the immigrants are here in the first place.
[00:30:07]  And they are using those immigrants as a battering ram against the gates of Britain and to devalue the power that each individual Briton holds in the political system.
[00:30:18]  There are many different tactics that need to take.

=== Protecting Vested Interests vs Voters (06:41) ===

[00:30:20]  Obviously, I've not thought about all of them right off the top of my head right now.
[00:30:25]  But these are issues.
[00:30:26]  And if you just come across, as reform do in many ways, and Conservatives and even Labour, I think this is one of the reasons they've lost a lot of the younger votes, as though you are protecting vested interests rather than working for the voter themselves.
[00:30:40]  That's why people switch off.
[00:30:42]  The Green, however insane they are, do not come across like they're just protecting the pockets of billionaires.
[00:30:47]  That's a really good point.
[00:30:48]  And I agree with you.
[00:30:49]  And I think it's one of those sort of misunderstandings, isn't it?
[00:30:51]  A fat, for instance, as being a conservative when it was really arch-liberal.
[00:30:56]  And it's the liberal ethos that opens the borders and tries to equalize the level of cheap labour across a continent.
[00:31:03]  There's a balance that can be made between the nation's needs and wants and the wants of the people and also business and allowing for innovation and protecting businesses in ways that mean that you will be able to foster innovation.
[00:31:16]  But for most people over the past 30 years, it looks as though any balance has been completely thrown aside and it's all just been given over to a lot of people see the reasons why their lives are so much worse off and more expensive as being the fault of billionaires.
[00:31:32]  And again, from a right-wing perspective, there is truth in that.
[00:31:34]  But the only people making that argument for so long have been left-wingers from a left-wing perspective who leave out all of the pertinent details about things like mass immigration being great for billionaires because it allows them to import a slave labor cheap class.
[00:31:49]  Do you think conservatism has a branding problem?
[00:31:52]  Oh, yes.
[00:31:54]  Well, I think the problem with the brander is just, well, what have you conserved?
[00:32:00]  I don't mean in that way.
[00:32:02]  I mean in the look, whatever you think of the Green Party, if you're a young left liberal, it looks like a bit of fun.
[00:32:12]  It looks like young people out there who care.
[00:32:15]  Whereas conservatism is young people in suits and guys.
[00:32:19]  It's not a criticism, do you?
[00:32:20]  No, the funny thing is that the Tories and the Green Party, I would argue, have a lot of crossover in the kind of fun that they enjoy, but they do advertise and broadcast it differently.
[00:32:31]  But I mean, so I think if you're still living with your parents or you're still subsidised by your parents, you have a lot more luxury in your vote than if you're actually out there working, trying to pay your rent, pay your mortgage, create a family.
[00:32:47]  And so if you're not being hit economically in that way, where at the end of each month everything gets a bit harder, then you have a kind of a luxury in your vote.
[00:32:56]  And therefore, maybe it does come down to what is a bit cool.
[00:32:58]  What are other people seeing as cool?
[00:33:00]  Because we know, for example, if you work in any kind of office in London, you cannot admit to being a Conservative voter.
[00:33:07]  You'll be...
[00:33:08]  Oh, yeah.
[00:33:09]  I mean...
[00:33:09]  I mean, well, that's another thing as well, especially with young people.
[00:33:13]  Yeah.
[00:33:15]  Like, if you're a young person around my age or younger, I go to the local pub.
[00:33:21]  If I said to anybody, oh, I'm a dedicated, lifelong conservative voter, and they were around my age, they wouldn't want to spend time with me.
[00:33:30]  They wouldn't want to speak to me.
[00:33:32]  So there is a similar thing with reform.
[00:33:34]  I've been in the middle of conversations with random people who are slightly younger than me, where they've got a bit drunk and they've just gone off completely unprompted when we weren't even talking about politics about how they hate Nigel Farage.
[00:33:47]  He's a complete fascist.
[00:33:48]  Why would anybody who votes for him is just a Nazi in disguise.
[00:33:52]  And I felt like talking up, speaking up and just being there, actually, he's just another renter suit neoliberal.
[00:33:59]  But I thought to myself as well, and this is also a little bit on the uninformed, stupid voter side as well, which is that they're not going to understand my talking points.
[00:34:08]  They're not going to understand what I'm saying.
[00:34:09]  They've not got the context to really understand what I'm talking about here.
[00:34:13]  So there is definitely a lot of social pressure that goes into at least how young people will be telling others that they're voting.
[00:34:20]  Because the Greens are very much an anti-establishment party, but their solution is to have a bigger establishment.
[00:34:26]  And I think what could cut through a little bit more punk rock is an anti-establishment party who wants to abolish as much of the establishment as possible.
[00:34:36]  Right, we don't have time to carry on down this road.
[00:34:39]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:34:39]  I think there's a lot more to it.
[00:34:42]  People in the chat I see are talking about aesthetics.
[00:34:44]  And to be fair, this is something that I hopefully will be working on and I want to see other people working on as well, which is that this is partially because of gatekeeping and also, frankly, partially because of the fact that the centre right as occupied by the Conservatives are frightfully dull and uncreative people.
[00:35:04]  There is no exciting, youthful, creative scenes on the right.
[00:35:10]  There's like, I want to, I'm a musician, I play music, and I want there to be more people within the scene who are sharing my political views, who are not necessarily trying to, in a timpool way, make right-wing music.
[00:35:24]  They just are right-wing and they make good music.
[00:35:27]  And once you have a cool and energetic and dynamic scene for people to want to get involved in, divorcing it from the politics, people will want to get involved in that.
[00:35:37]  If you write good music, if you make good art of any kind, people will want to get involved in that.
[00:35:43]  And hopefully, I'm hoping that this year, next year, people will start to develop a little bit of that more because young people want to be part of social groups.
[00:35:52]  Yeah, everybody's derascinated.
[00:35:53]  Everybody's atomized and isolated from one another.
[00:35:56]  But people still seek community.
[00:35:58]  It's an obvious example, but one thing Charlie Kirk did really well is make conservatism cool for young people in America.
[00:36:05]  He came out in a t-shirt.
[00:36:06]  He gave out baseball caps.
[00:36:08]  He went to university campuses.
[00:36:09]  He made kind of the bro culture realize conservatism is much cooler than being a wet liberal lefty.
[00:36:15]  The problem that our conservatives have, I guess we could just carry on talking about this if you're right to skip your segment because there's a lot here to get.
[00:36:21]  Yeah, no, that's absolutely fine.
[00:36:23]  Don't worry about it.
[00:36:23]  And it'll tie directly into you.
[00:36:25]  Yeah, so the problem is that the only way to be cool in modern politics, I think, is to genuinely be anti-establishment, right?
[00:36:36]  To genuinely be like saying, no, those people hate us and don't want to have anything to do with us.
[00:36:41]  They don't want us anywhere in their power because they are protecting, as Harry's saying, a system of billionaires and entrenched interests, right?
[00:36:47]  And there's no way that reform and the conservatives can appear cool in that paradigm because, of course, they are also protecting and part of the system, protecting the entrenched interests of billionaires, institutions, NGOs, all that sort of thing.
[00:37:00]  Can I give an example?
[00:37:01]  Please.

=== The Cost of Commuting Crisis (05:34) ===

[00:37:02]  So when Nigel Farage, I think it was last month, came out and said, I'm going to abolish work from home.
[00:37:10]  So for most young people, there's a few things to do with that, which is one, a lot of people were immediately theorizing that he was coming out with such messaging to protect the value of major properties within London and other cities that act as office buildings.
[00:37:25]  If all of those emptied out or are less full more of the time, then potentially the value of them decreases and the large business owners and property owners who own those and have those in their portfolios, they take a hit to their bank account.
[00:37:38]  So a lot of people see that.
[00:37:39]  Okay, he's just protecting big business interests there.
[00:37:42]  The other thing is a lot of young people my age are going, well, travel is expensive.
[00:37:48]  Commuting is really expensive.
[00:37:50]  I already have enough of a difficult time trying to manage work, life and costs on top of everything.
[00:37:56]  And Nigel Farage is saying the one or two days I get to work from home, now I have to spend more of my life on a commute, either alone, isolated in my car, or on busy, dangerous public transport, all of which is way too expensive.
[00:38:12]  Now, public transport in this country, we all know, is an absolute joke.
[00:38:15]  The cost of it is through the roof.
[00:38:17]  And fuel is now getting more expensive because of the geopolitical circumstances with Iran and the Strait of Hormuz, etc.
[00:38:24]  So they're just saying, okay, so what is reform offering me as a young person?
[00:38:28]  Well, more of my life spent away from my family and friends and more of my money down the toilet unnecessarily for what?
[00:38:35]  So that I can sit in an office with a bunch of people I barely socialize with anyway to do work for a rubbish email job that I can do on my sofa.
[00:38:45]  Because a lot of these people are also working BS make work jobs as well.
[00:38:50]  So that is not a winning ticket for the youth vote.
[00:38:54]  Maintaining the corporate welfare state isn't what everyone wants.
[00:38:58]  Well, it could be crazy.
[00:38:59]  It also comes across, frankly, as a bit of boomer baiting.
[00:39:02]  It does.
[00:39:02]  Like, like older generations.
[00:39:04]  Did you not attempt even to make the case that going to work is actually mentally healthy?
[00:39:09]  I mean, I personally think it is.
[00:39:11]  And we have a work-from-home situation.
[00:39:14]  My wife has been working from home for a long time, you know, because of balancing with the kids.
[00:39:18]  And I think it drives you slightly crazy, you know, just being in the box room all day when you should be in a large open.
[00:39:24]  Yes, there's disadvantages.
[00:39:27]  But there's beers after work and stuff.
[00:39:28]  What you need to do is you need to reboot the corporate environment, the corporate culture, to make workplaces more fun again.
[00:39:35]  But it's not necessarily about making work even that it's fun.
[00:39:38]  There are real issues here.
[00:39:40]  Like, as you say, like we were talking about the price of the trains coming down for the podcast.
[00:39:44]  It's unbelievable.
[00:39:45]  Like, if I want to go to Deadcock Parkway, it's a 15-minute trip.
[00:39:48]  It costs 20 quid.
[00:39:49]  That's more than a pound a mile.
[00:39:51]  It's like, sorry, how is that possible?
[00:39:53]  And it's possible because, of course, loads of foreign governments own our trains.
[00:39:57]  And then when you get on the trains, you are surrounded.
[00:39:59]  It's completely packed.
[00:40:01]  And you've got a billion people from other countries talking in strange languages on their phones.
[00:40:04]  And it's like, what has happened here?
[00:40:06]  This is just a demonstrably uncomfortable thing.
[00:40:09]  A lot of people won't want to admit it, but the fact of the overcrowding of the country due to all of the foreigners who've been imported in as well is one of like it was the foreigners that attacked the train near Cambridge late last year.
[00:40:21]  People don't say it explicitly, but it is always something at the back of their mind.
[00:40:25]  If I get on public transport today and I'm going to my job in a big city, am I going to be the victim of a terror attack?
[00:40:31]  I saw a video on my train.
[00:40:32]  Do people really think that?
[00:40:34]  I have to think.
[00:40:35]  Do people really get on a train and think that today am I going to be the victim of a terror attack?
[00:40:39]  I have to think that it does play into some people's calculations.
[00:40:41]  People don't like getting on public transport that much anymore.
[00:40:45]  I understand concerns and public safety and I understand the correlation with terrorist attacks, but I don't think people really personally get on a train.
[00:40:53]  I think is today the day I go AWOL.
[00:40:57]  Well, obviously that was a bit perhaps that was a bit of an exaggeration.
[00:41:01]  However, still they are thoroughly unpleasant spaces to operate.
[00:41:04]  It's not necessarily terrorist attacks.
[00:41:05]  I think it's just casual violence that I think a lot of people personally do find almost everyone else on a train like at least annoying, if not absolutely enraging.
[00:41:16]  Just their multiple presence is too much to process.
[00:41:20]  When I go to London and I see a random man wandering around looking weird, he looks highly strong and he's like staring.
[00:41:29]  I'm always like, Jesus Christ, is this the day when one of those viral videos that comes across your Twitter time and happens to me?
[00:41:34]  Like I saw one this morning of a woman, like a bunch of girls were running to a train and a bunch of ethnic minority men were kicking them and spitting them.
[00:41:42]  And one of them kicked this woman and she went under the fucking train.
[00:41:45]  And I'm just like, you saw that video.
[00:41:47]  It's literally this video.
[00:41:49]  You know, the platform video.
[00:41:51]  And I'm just like, I mean, this is, I think I retweeted it and tagged Stella Creasy.
[00:41:56]  Any thoughts, Stella?
[00:41:57]  Because it's just because I don't think many go through her.
[00:42:00]  No, exactly, because it's just like we live in an era where there's just a high potential for low-level violence.
[00:42:07]  There is also just to play devil's advocate because I don't like it, but there is also the availability heuristic thing, isn't there?
[00:42:14]  That's true.
[00:42:14]  I'm not saying that's the kind of video that goes around the world.
[00:42:16]  And I'm not saying that it has not happened to me, thank God, right?
[00:42:20]  But you realize that we are in a much more dangerous environment than we used to be.
[00:42:25]  It could be that some nutter stands up on a train and does something, or someone, like the Indian man who drove through like a dozen people in Derby recently.
[00:42:35]  I've got to say, I don't think this.

=== Redefining Freedom in Modern Politics (06:32) ===

[00:42:36]  I mean, I don't know whether this is part of the calculation young people are making when they hear Farage saying we want to end working from home.
[00:42:45]  I would say that is a little bit like saying, okay, listen, you're putting on weight, you're getting unfit, you need to get out on your bike and ride an hour around the, you know, the yeah, there is a danger you might go under a juggernaut, but on the whole, that you're likely to have health benefits overall.
[00:43:00]  I think it's similar with working from home.
[00:43:01]  Yes, there is potentially a danger that you'll encounter an incident on a commuter train.
[00:43:05]  It's much more likely.
[00:43:06]  It's just one thing on a series of things.
[00:43:08]  Yeah, right.
[00:43:09]  It's a generally healthier format for your life, though, isn't it?
[00:43:12]  To go somewhere and work somewhere else, isn't it?
[00:43:14]  I don't know how healthy most people being cooped up in five days a week, eight hours a day, pointless office jobs is for motivation.
[00:43:23]  But that's not healthy if you're cooped up in your own home.
[00:43:25]  It's going to be automated anyway.
[00:43:26]  If you're doing that same job at home, I mean, I understand a lot of jobs.
[00:43:30]  Listen, I left corporate work after three years and I've never done a day's work since.
[00:43:34]  And luckily for me, it's kind of worked out.
[00:43:36]  I understand, you know, strip lighting and being 50 yards from the nearest window.
[00:43:40]  It's miserable.
[00:43:40]  But it's a little bit different.
[00:43:44]  We've kind of deviated from the point of the aesthetics of conservatism.
[00:43:48]  It's a bit of a struggle.
[00:43:49]  But I was leading to a point is that one trick the left have pulled that's very good is to make the term right-wing a pejorative.
[00:43:58]  Like if you're right-wing, you must be evil, which is, I try and avoid talking about it.
[00:44:02]  I think it's much better to talk about freedom and liberty because there is a strong alignment between freedom and liberty and parts of the conservative movement.
[00:44:09]  And again, it's a thing Charlie Kirk did really well.
[00:44:12]  He would wear his t-shirt with freedom on there.
[00:44:13]  He would anchor a lot of things back to freedom and liberty.
[00:44:16]  And I think that's an area you can win a lot more arguments with young people because you can explain to them why free speech is important, why free trade is important.
[00:44:25]  And you can win, you can at times agree with the left, at times agree with the right.
[00:44:30]  But almost every argument you're going to win if you base yourself in freedom and liberty.
[00:44:33]  Not everyone, but a lot of the arguments.
[00:44:37]  And, you know, where the right, where it's where, sorry, where the march on the weekend was a march against the far right.
[00:44:45]  It was a march against the far right and the fascists.
[00:44:50]  If you can separate yourself from that by saying, no, I base myself in freedom and liberty, well, you don't want to be anti-freedom.
[00:44:56]  You don't want to be anti-liberty.
[00:44:58]  And this is what appeals to me about Restore is that he appears to be much more focused on freedom and liberty than conservatism.
[00:45:05]  And I just think that's a way you can win young people over.
[00:45:08]  I think there's some truth to that.
[00:45:10]  But the so there's a number of problems here, which is, well, essentially, Zach Polanski will always win the argument on freedom and liberty.
[00:45:21]  Right.
[00:45:21]  I disagree.
[00:45:22]  I'd eviscerate him in a debate on freedom and liberty.
[00:45:24]  No, he wouldn't.
[00:45:25]  He would say, I want complete freedom.
[00:45:26]  You don't even want gay pride marches marching through kindergartens.
[00:45:31]  You don't.
[00:45:32]  You know, he will.
[00:45:32]  Yeah, of course, but that's the limit of my freedom and liberty.
[00:45:36]  Yeah, but that's because that infringes on the freedom and liberty of family.
[00:45:39]  But Zach Polanski would say, you don't even want me to have the freedom to trans your own children.
[00:45:44]  You don't want to gimp in bondage gear on stage dancing.
[00:45:47]  No, no, no.
[00:45:48]  I understand that argument.
[00:45:49]  Yeah, but the point is, he will ultimately be able to one-up you on almost everything.
[00:45:54]  You'll say, Well, I want people to have the freedom to make their own businesses.
[00:45:56]  And he'll say, Well, I want people to have the freedom to have everything given to them for free.
[00:46:00]  And because we're in an era of vibe-based politics, you seem like the dinosaur defending the status quo, whereas he seems like the edgy radical who's actually going to help people out.
[00:46:09]  Even requires coercion.
[00:46:10]  Even, yeah, but so what?
[00:46:13]  Like, he like he's saying, Yeah, we're going to coerce the billionaires, and everyone's like, Great, the billionaires are getting coerced, and I'm getting a bunch of free stuff.
[00:46:19]  So, actually, you look like you're defending the status quo because what you're saying is not materially different to what Nigel Farage or the Conservatives would say, right?
[00:46:26]  Whereas Zach Polanski, what he's saying, is materially different to what the Labour Party would say, because the Labour Party would be going, No, you're a lunatic.
[00:46:32]  What are you talking about?
[00:46:33]  Right?
[00:46:33]  And so, he seems like the outrider there.
[00:46:36]  And he also seems like that on the principles you've espoused, right?
[00:46:41]  So, you need a different set of principles to win this argument.
[00:46:45]  So, essentially, what you have to ask yourself is, and I actually think that the Jordan Peterson sort of like actually duty and responsibility is something that is not only outside of what the conservatives and reform would ever talk about, you'd never hear Nigel Farage talk about duty and responsibility because he's a Jack the Lad.
[00:47:02]  Everyone knows he's Jack the Lad.
[00:47:04]  He likes going for a pub and a pint and a smoke.
[00:47:06]  Well, he likes to pretend to.
[00:47:08]  Well, and I'm sure he does like drinking and smoking.
[00:47:10]  I've heard he prefers red wine in private.
[00:47:14]  Well, I mean, that's a drink.
[00:47:15]  Pint of the pubs, just like a media thing.
[00:47:18]  Oh, right.
[00:47:18]  Okay, it's believable, though, right?
[00:47:20]  It's believable.
[00:47:21]  But he's a Jack the Lad, right?
[00:47:23]  He's not someone who's actually like talking about duty and responsibility.
[00:47:26]  Whereas, and you know that it's only through duty and responsibility that we're going to get a civilization worth living in, right?
[00:47:32]  Zach Polanski is a destructive force, he's a leveler, right?
[00:47:35]  He's going to ruin everything.
[00:47:37]  And everyone knows that it'll just be the lowest common denominator, and everything gets reduced to the ground level.
[00:47:41]  So, everyone's poor, everyone's in danger, everyone's suffering.
[00:47:45]  And it's only going to be through an actually sort of credible right-wing movement that's saying, No, no, no, no, you have something you have to do.
[00:47:51]  This isn't about freedom, actually.
[00:47:53]  I'm not a free man, you're not a free man, you've got a wife and kids, you've got responsibilities, you're not free.
[00:47:58]  I'm not free, I've got a wife and kids.
[00:48:00]  But what I do have is something really precious that's worth protecting.
[00:48:04]  And actually, I think that speaking to especially young men saying, Look, you could get something precious that's worth protecting as well.
[00:48:10]  I think that actually makes me sound like someone who's completely outside the consensus.
[00:48:14]  I've never heard a politician speak about anything in these terms, and it's also true and real and hard work, but it's totally worth it, right?
[00:48:24]  And so, I'm really against trying to beat Zach Polanski on the grounds of freedom and liberty.
[00:48:28]  You know, like obviously, we're going to get freedom and liberty, but if we make them ideological precepts, he can win on that because he's on a stage with a bunch of gay guys gyrating, and you're not.
[00:48:39]  So, he's freer than you are.
[00:48:42]  Freedom's been denatured and devalued through discourse.
[00:48:46]  In American politics, people the left will always demand freedom and equality, you know, just blank face against the obvious fact that those two things are in opposition.
[00:48:56]  Exactly, and they don't care.
[00:48:58]  And they've also individualized the concept of freedom.
[00:49:00]  Freedom historically never meant freedom of the individual, it was meant freedom of a people from foreign subjugation.
[00:49:06]  Yeah, that's what freedom in its traditional sense meant.

=== When Duty Meets Individual Liberty (06:35) ===

[00:49:09]  And it's only in the sort of modern ideological parlance that we use freedom on an individual basis, which essentially necessitates the size of the state.
[00:49:17]  Because, of course, the state has to then take on other protective aspects that communities would actually take on.
[00:49:23]  And so, you're looking at me very skeptically, but like because I think the message is if it's an anti-establishment movement, then freedom is a small state.
[00:49:31]  Because it's freedom from the state, and it definitely does need to state itself all the time.
[00:49:36]  I think we can all agree to be a small state.
[00:49:38]  The state's evil and we need to destroy it.
[00:49:40]  But we all agree with that, but that's that's only one interpretation of freedom.
[00:49:45]  That's the problem, right?
[00:49:46]  But it's punk rock to be an individualist to rely on the state is pretty wet.
[00:49:50]  Well, the thing is, and I think that is a message that I think that aligns with your duty message.
[00:49:56]  I mean, don't get me wrong.
[00:49:56]  Yeah, I'm not saying this isn't what I believe.
[00:49:58]  Obviously, I believe this.
[00:50:00]  One of the big appeals of Restore's initial thing was just when Rupert, No Nonsense, said this will be difficult.
[00:50:07]  It will be painful.
[00:50:08]  Which, to me, as a young man, is putting forward like a sense of duty, responsibility. honor, sacrifice, and danger that you don't get from anywhere else.
[00:50:19]  One of the reasons that I do think that this kind of what we were talking about a moment ago with office work and pointless email jobs and do nothing, like make work schemes is the fact that they are, they're safe, they're comfortable, they're pointless.
[00:50:34]  And most young men in those, that's why they're perfect for women.
[00:50:37]  I love you women, but it's why they're perfect for women because the woman can love a job where all she has to do is sit around answering emails all day and taking three four hour long meetings every day where they can basically just gossip, right?
[00:50:52]  As a man, I would rather throw myself off a bridge.
[00:50:56]  And ironically, you know, the old sort of, you know, newspaper advertising, you know, men needed for hard journey, you know, small chance of success, you know, imminent danger, but glory if we survive.
[00:51:07]  And, you know, you'd flock to that.
[00:51:09]  I'd flock to that.
[00:51:09]  Yeah.
[00:51:11]  That sounds appealing.
[00:51:12]  If you talk about freedom, there is no greater prison than the feminized HR woman dominated, like dictatorship office job, right?
[00:51:23]  The idea of the, okay, we're going to save the country.
[00:51:27]  We are going to reassert order and values and standards.
[00:51:33]  That to me is a greater rush of freedom than any amount of hedonism, pornography, drugs, casual sex, anything that the current society could offer me because they are simply soma.
[00:51:48]  Because the problem of the term freedom, sorry, I'm not going, is it literally can just degenerate into hedonism, right?
[00:51:56]  Whereas to take on the aspect of duty and responsibility, it assumes that you have a level of freedom anyway, to be able to choose that, right?
[00:52:05]  To be able to do that.
[00:52:06]  But it also offers things like status, offers glory, it offers respectability.
[00:52:11]  And every young man knows he needs some status to get his wife, right?
[00:52:15]  Every young man knows this instinctively.
[00:52:17]  So do you see the point that I'm making?
[00:52:20]  I think we're both right.
[00:52:21]  Well, that's a very diplomatic way of saying no.
[00:52:25]  No, because, you know, I think of how I raise my son, right?
[00:52:30]  Again, hard work, craft.
[00:52:32]  He doesn't get away with things.
[00:52:34]  He has a duty.
[00:52:35]  Authoritarian.
[00:52:35]  Maybe it is a duty to look after a system where I'm not around.
[00:52:38]  This is why I teach across.
[00:52:39]  But I also teach him the principles of freedom and liberty and why they're important.
[00:52:43]  Why we need a small state, the smallest possible state.
[00:52:46]  So on an individual level, I think I'm teaching both to my son.
[00:52:49]  So I agree.
[00:52:50]  Both right.
[00:52:50]  That sounds like a very Anglo way of raising him.
[00:52:53]  It is.
[00:52:54]  The Anglo conception has always been freedom with responsibility and duty and the two.
[00:53:00]  And this is historically going back to the Greeks as well.
[00:53:02]  The two could never be disconnected from one another.
[00:53:05]  And what we have now is a complete disconnect.
[00:53:07]  But you're selling, you want to sell duty.
[00:53:10]  And I guess what you're talking about is at a time when we had a lot more freedom, we had a duty.
[00:53:15]  The duty comes with the freedom.
[00:53:17]  Yeah, the duty comes with the freedom because you didn't have a state to always rely on.
[00:53:20]  This is the problem with Zach Polanski.
[00:53:22]  The Greens act as a kind of siren song, which is liberty from responsibility, right?
[00:53:27]  No, no, no, we're just going to give you free money.
[00:53:29]  We're just going to steal from those evil billionaires who took all of your resources.
[00:53:32]  I'm just going to hand it out to you so you can come and join us in our big gay parties.
[00:53:36]  We'll take loads of drugs and just dance forever at the end of history.
[00:53:39]  But there's no problems.
[00:53:40]  This is the problem they've had in America for a long time, right?
[00:53:44]  Traditionally, the American dream was open to everyone in theory.
[00:53:48]  You could look a president straight in the eye if you met him in a bar and you were no better or worse than him and the potential to make something for yourself was there.
[00:53:55]  Once that begins to dissolve, and it hasn't never been quite as enshrined in the British constitution or whatever.
[00:54:02]  But once it's not even feasible that you're going to own your own home, let alone kind of make it in any meaningful sense, then that door slams shut, right?
[00:54:10]  And that's, as you say, when Polanski starts to look like he's got solutions.
[00:54:14]  Exactly.
[00:54:15]  And especially if you've got a bunch of young people who have never, I mean, given the paradigm that we're in, the sort of like HR tyranny that we've been in, like taking responsibility is not the core message of this paradigm, right?
[00:54:29]  It's actually be a good surf.
[00:54:32]  And it's easy, as you say with the Soma, to keep the serfs on the plantation by just making sure, well, we're just going to give you a bunch of things, make you dependent upon us, and you're going to become dependent on our drugs.
[00:54:42]  And therefore, you will never revolt because you don't even realize that you're a serf.
[00:54:46]  You don't realize you're in prison.
[00:54:48]  And that cheap carbs.
[00:54:50]  And that's been essentially, this is why Zach Polanski is not actually an anti-establishment figure.
[00:54:56]  What he actually is, is the fulfillment of the establishment because that's what Labour have been promising.
[00:55:01]  That's what Conservatives ended up promising under Blair.
[00:55:03]  And that's what reform are doing as they are accepting all these Conservatives.
[00:55:06]  And so Zach Polanski is really just the end result, the honest version of the entire paradigm, the sort of paradigm that seeks to just end suffering and pain.
[00:55:17]  That's the entire point of our governance.
[00:55:19]  And I actually think that the real anti-establishment is like, no, we're going to bring you pain.
[00:55:24]  You're going to hurt.
[00:55:25]  It's going to be hard work.
[00:55:26]  But at the end of it, you're going to have built something glorious, monumental, and you won't even recognize the person that you used to be.
[00:55:33]  Which was Malay's message as well.
[00:55:35]  This will be painful.
[00:55:37]  I think one of the other appeals of it, again, referring back to Rupert's announcement for Restore, is that it's true.
[00:55:44]  Yeah.
[00:55:44]  It's true.

=== Merging Reform and Conservative Parties (09:12) ===

[00:55:45]  One thing that we've missed discussing all of this so far is just truth and how much that appeals to people.
[00:55:50]  Labour don't come across as honest because they just come across like they're for vested interests, but they're pretending to be on your side.
[00:55:58]  Reform, again, kind of projects the same message as labor in that sense.
[00:56:03]  The conservatives don't come across as honest because we already had 14 years of their governance.
[00:56:08]  And there's also the elephant in the room that they're a big gay club that won't admit it.
[00:56:13]  Greens, the honest factor with them is that they are exactly what they say on the tin, right?
[00:56:20]  They have the big gay parties for their party meetings and they say, vote for us and you'll get more of this.
[00:56:27]  They leave out the parts where it's like also complete economic collapse.
[00:56:31]  You won't be able to buy bread at the supermarket, but you will definitely get more drugs and gay sex under the Greens.
[00:56:37]  So people see that and go, well, they're giving me honesty.
[00:56:40]  Restore are trying to, or should and continue trying to pitch an honest assessment of where we are and what it will take to fix this.
[00:56:51]  And people want the truth.
[00:56:53]  They don't want liars anymore.
[00:56:55]  And one very good part of the branding is the don't care.
[00:56:59]  Yeah.
[00:56:59]  I actually think that's very.
[00:57:00]  Zach Polanski has that.
[00:57:01]  I mean, literally today, he was being attacked by the Daily Mail or something.
[00:57:04]  He's like, I don't care about the mail.
[00:57:06]  Just join our party.
[00:57:07]  And, you know, his supporters love it.
[00:57:09]  In fact, Samson, can we go to the last segment?
[00:57:11]  We'll go through this one now.
[00:57:12]  Because let's get on to talk about Restore because I think that was a good discussion.
[00:57:16]  I think it's important as well.
[00:57:18]  So before we begin, we've got a live event on the 11th of April.
[00:57:21]  It's going to be brilliant.
[00:57:22]  Come and join us.
[00:57:22]  Anyway, right.
[00:57:23]  So, yeah, there we go.
[00:57:26]  Right.
[00:57:26]  So I'm chairing the Restore Swindon Branch just because someone has to do it.
[00:57:31]  And I happen to have a team of people who are also invested in helping.
[00:57:34]  And that's about half the people who turned out.
[00:57:36]  That's because at the end of it, we were like, right, who wants to have their photo taken?
[00:57:39]  About half people are like, okay, no thanks, you know, because we had protesters outside.
[00:57:43]  But the Swindon Branch is active and it's going quite well.
[00:57:48]  And as you can see here, Restore, when prompted by Find Out Now in their polls, are on 8% in the polls.
[00:57:54]  And that's pretty good, actually, for a party that's been a party for 11 days now.
[00:57:59]  So there's definitely some legs to this, and it's definitely going somewhere.
[00:58:03]  And this is not just an issue, a thing for us.
[00:58:07]  I mean, there have been loads, loads of these where, you know, these are surprisingly well attended events.
[00:58:14]  And as you can see, there are, you know, older and younger people.
[00:58:16]  So one thing that I've found with ours is the consistent demographic slice across the country.
[00:58:22]  This isn't Nigel Farage, his, you know, bingo care hall tour.
[00:58:27]  This is people of all sorts of ages, but a lot of them, and I think most of them, were people about our age, Peter.
[00:58:33]  Just quite interesting about this.
[00:58:35]  There's a little bit Hannah Spencer about this.
[00:58:37]  Yes.
[00:58:38]  It's the regular people who's had enough.
[00:58:41]  I mean, for example, this chap here is a guy called Scott, and he's going to be chairing the Chippenham branch of Restore.
[00:58:47]  I've known him for about 30 years.
[00:58:48]  Unbelievably good guy, one of my best mates.
[00:58:51]  And he's just a regular guy.
[00:58:53]  He's just like, no, I've just got to come and do something now.
[00:58:55]  I have to come and get involved in this now because I've seen the state of the country.
[00:58:59]  And, well, I didn't, I mean, he didn't want to be involved in politics.
[00:59:03]  Neither did I, you know.
[00:59:04]  And yet we've been dragged into this by the sheer decline of this country and the complete unseriousness of basically every person on every side, without with really completely unacceptable, the refusal to accept that the thing that has come before has ended right.
[00:59:21]  This is what I think we can all agree, the Blairite paradigm.
[00:59:24]  That is the culmination of the 20th century politics.
[00:59:27]  It's over, that's just over, and so now it's basically Zach Polanski and Rupert Lowe saying, I don't care for the center, I don't care about your opinion.
[00:59:36]  Uh, we know you're wrong and you know you can either agree with us or disagree with us.
[00:59:40]  Um, but there is definitely something changing, definitely something changing.
[00:59:44]  Um, any thoughts?
[00:59:46]  Well, I suppose, I excuse me again I um I, I agree with you about the don't care thing, which is a question of framing, right it's, it's not allowing the other side to choose the frame and to choose the.
[00:59:55]  The language you, you adopt, and that whole Dems are the real racist kind of nonsense is very tired, I suppose.
[01:00:02]  I suppose the obvious query is, do you, do you see restore as having a chance to form a government and if not, are they more likely to do damage?
[01:00:10]  I mean, this is the big thing now, as we're moving into a multipolar at least five viable parties at the next election.
[01:00:16]  What kind of uh coalitions are likely to to um be formed before polling day and after polling day?
[01:00:23]  And we are we now in sort of continental territory where um again, unintended consequences can completely disrupt well you know, well-managed campaigns and so on.
[01:00:35]  I think it's um always easy to take a snapshot of what things look like at this time and think that this is uh indicative of the the state of affairs in say, three years time at the next election.
[01:00:47]  Right, but I i'm actually much more of a fan of watching where the sort of the liquid is flowing um, because which container is going to fill up?
[01:00:56]  And the liquid of politics is obviously flowing into the Green Party, but But it's also flowing out of reform now.
[01:01:02]  It's flowing into restore.
[01:01:04]  And so this is just a matter of time now.
[01:01:06]  It's the slow drip, drip, drip of the water wearing down the rock.
[01:01:11]  What's it actually going to fill up?
[01:01:12]  And I think it's essentially going to come down to the Green Party and Restore in the next three years.
[01:01:17]  Now, I'm terrible at making predictions.
[01:01:18]  I hate making predictions.
[01:01:19]  And, you know, who knows what happens tomorrow.
[01:01:21]  But if the way that things are going, I think the Lib Dems will basically stay where they are.
[01:01:25]  But I think the Labour and the Conservatives are done.
[01:01:27]  I think reform is going to bleed out.
[01:01:29]  And I honestly think that if reform gets down to about 19% in the polls, Farage will just pack it in.
[01:01:37]  Right.
[01:01:37]  Yeah.
[01:01:38]  What's your guys' take on it then?
[01:01:40]  Well, I mean, I think reformer, we're going to see an epic collapse.
[01:01:45]  I think the generic moment was the obvious moment to me.
[01:01:47]  And you started to get the sense beforehand, but the generic moment to me was this party's finished.
[01:01:52]  It's done.
[01:01:53]  I agree with you.
[01:01:54]  I can see a scenario where Farage quits because he'd rather do that than lose.
[01:02:00]  And then reform gets merged into restore with Rupert as the natural leader.
[01:02:05]  But I can also see a scenario where reform and conservatives try and merge in some kind of way.
[01:02:12]  But what's more interesting is there's really what feels like a 50-50 split left-view right in the country.
[01:02:18]  And so what's going to be really interesting is how strategic this gets at the next election, because it really is a lef-v-right split now.
[01:02:25]  Yeah.
[01:02:25]  And I think Harry was right earlier that essentially the left can't attack us on immigration, right?
[01:02:30]  Because the two top issues in the country, and it's constantly going up and down, is immigration and the economy, right?
[01:02:36]  And that's, if you look at how the parties are shaking out, well, Restore Britain are most concerned about immigration and the Greens are most concerned about the economy.
[01:02:44]  So who can take territory from who?
[01:02:46]  Well, the Greens can never take our anti-immigration territory because they're fully committed to diversity, immigration, and things like that.
[01:02:52]  So the Greens have got this natural sort of barrier there that they can't cross.
[01:02:55]  But actually, I don't think Restore have that natural barrier when it comes to the economy.
[01:02:59]  And if we can get the good conservative sort of economic messaging and vibe it and say, no, look, this is why you're losing money.
[01:03:05]  You know, the billionaires are bringing in millions of immigrants to steal your jobs, to compress your wages, which is true, right?
[01:03:12]  If Restore can actually get a strong vibes-based economic message, based in truth, that actually, you know, your friend who's voting green but agrees with your Twitter feed, if we can get that into their heads, then actually we can park our tanks on their lawn, but they can come nowhere near us.
[01:03:28]  Because what they would have to concede is, yeah, these immigrants actually don't belong here.
[01:03:31]  And they could never concede that.
[01:03:33]  So I think actually the potential is there for quite a significant success.
[01:03:39]  I think there's a couple of international things that might change over the next two or three years.
[01:03:43]  Obviously, Israel-Gaza was a major force in creating a Muslim bloc in the last general election.
[01:03:50]  I would think that specific aspect of the Middle East is waning, but obviously the Middle East remains very volatile.
[01:04:00]  And a lot of people are already factoring in a worldwide recession off the closure of the Straits.
[01:04:04]  So, I mean, that's going to be a serious issue that people are going to have to show they have at least some competence in handling and understanding at that point.
[01:04:12]  I think what's also interesting is, you know, I don't think we'll ever stop talking about left and right, but they clearly mean different things than they did during the French Revolution and they've evolved over time.
[01:04:22]  And the Labour Party, as you say, used to represent the working class and that was about sort of social, small less socialist redistribution or whatever.
[01:04:30]  Now, obviously, one axis is the somewheres, anywheres axis.
[01:04:34]  One axis is how committed are you to dissolving the blob, you know, or whatever you want to call it.
[01:04:39]  And, you know, the state, as you say, how committed are you to leaving the ECHR?
[01:04:44]  These kind of issues are as much about competence as they are about vibes, I think, because it's one thing to say if you're a Green Party, we will tax the billionaires.
[01:04:54]  And if they decide to leave, well, Sodom.
[01:04:56]  We don't need them anyway.

=== The Age of Confiscation Begins (15:20) ===

[01:04:57]  Actually, you do need them.
[01:04:58]  They're wealth creators, and that's a disaster.
[01:05:00]  But it's much more complicated to say we will downsize the civil service.
[01:05:05]  That is a massive, I mean, that is Blair's legacy essentially, and that remains untouched at this point.
[01:05:11]  One thing that I was going to say, and it was kind of going to tie into my segment, which we've skipped over.
[01:05:18]  We do also need pro-business messaging so that both normal people can be assured that they will be able to start their own businesses that will not have busybody over like overhead management, over-the-shoulder management of every minor aspect of their business trying to get it.
[01:05:35]  It's more excessive regulation and taxes.
[01:05:37]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:05:38]  Excessive tax and regulation.
[01:05:40]  But also, for those larger corporations, as much as a lot of them have been a problem, people are right when they say that the flight of billionaires is a huge hit to the tax base of this country, which is not a great thing for everybody else as well.
[01:05:55]  So, there does need to be some sort of compromise where we say perhaps the businesses, listen, you cannot be advocating for these policies that bring in hordes of foreigners who demographically change and culturally change the country purely for the sake of like reduced labor costs.
[01:06:13]  But at the same time, we are going to work with you in ways that mean that you will be able to conduct your business in a way that's faithful to this country where you can still make money.
[01:06:22]  It's interesting as well from that point of view.
[01:06:24]  Larry Fink, isn't it?
[01:06:25]  A black rock.
[01:06:27]  It was quite widely shared interview recently in which he says that the era of cheap slave labor is coming to an end, essentially.
[01:06:36]  I've seen that, actually.
[01:06:36]  Yeah, yeah, and those countries such as Japan, which have remained demographically homogenous and have resisted seeking that out, are best placed to take advantage of the automation and the AI and so on, which is going to rush in because they are going to be kind of desperate for it and it will make immediate sense for them to adopt technologies that will reduce the cost of manufacture.
[01:06:59]  Whereas any country which still has cheap labor on tap is going to hesitate.
[01:07:03]  I think you were saying something before we want our airbag in agriculture in the same way.
[01:07:07]  Yeah, basically for like large farming corporations and companies, putting forward of some subsidies with upfront capital costs for automizing and automating using technology, crops and such, which means that you will still be able to have people working on those farms, high-skilled people working on those farms with that technology.
[01:07:29]  But the amount of productivity that you get per staff member, per employee on those farms, is over and above, like more than double in some cases, what you'll get.
[01:07:39]  So the segment I was going to do was going to talk about in America, there was an example named in the New York Times where a dairy farmer who was no longer able to use illegal labor on his farm, because of course they'd snatched up all of the illegal labor that was working on his farm, instead decided to put the upfront capital costs into automating using technology.
[01:08:00]  And now the staff that work for him are paid more, they work better hours, the work is less labor intensive, and per head now, per member of staff, he's gone from producing, I believe, per person, it was 800,000 liters of milk, something like that.
[01:08:19]  I don't remember if it was liters or what measurement they're using.
[01:08:21]  Either way, 800,000 liters of milk per person.
[01:08:25]  Now he's making 2.5 million liters of milk per person.
[01:08:30]  That's more than tripled the productivity through intelligent use of technology and new investment in capital, which is the thing that always happens.
[01:08:40]  We were talking about it earlier on this morning, where the Roman Republic were in a position where they could have improved technology, they could have updated, they could have had an industrial revolution.
[01:08:49]  Why didn't they?
[01:08:50]  The typical agreement is because they had free access to slave labor.
[01:08:54]  It is something that does completely retard technological advancement.
[01:08:58]  Yeah, the world is.
[01:08:59]  And this country does not need to sustain a population of 70 million, however many people are here right now, purely for the sake of keeping labor costs down.
[01:09:07]  We could go back to a population closer to 40 to 45 million, which is what I think we would have if it weren't for mass migration.
[01:09:16]  Yeah, and just have it so that we're more automated, which would improve a lot of people's lives.
[01:09:22]  It's not just even on the bottom end of the economic ladder.
[01:09:26]  Automation is going to make a big difference if you're tracking what's been happening with a lot of the AI models, is that screen-based jobs, most green-based jobs are going to either go or change a lot over the next two to three years through to automation there.
[01:09:42]  And my interest there is what that does to the middle class.
[01:09:45]  Yeah.
[01:09:46]  I mean, we're already in a housing recession in London.
[01:09:48]  There's a great Twitter account that's tracking houses being sold in London at a loss.
[01:09:52]  People are 25% lost, 30% loss on five, six years ago.
[01:09:56]  And so if we hit an election in three years' time and there's a large number of middle-class jobs that have been lost, how are those people going to be voting?
[01:10:03]  What are they going to want from the election?
[01:10:06]  When all of a sudden there's no visible need for all of these people to be here, because now most of the jobs that a lot of these people who've been brought in were doing are now being automated.
[01:10:18]  And you do really start to just see them as, oh, they're an imported slave underclass now.
[01:10:24]  It's almost as if we've been in pushing computer monitors or something, isn't it?
[01:10:28]  Something that's already outmoded.
[01:10:30]  Like, we'll have kind of the worst of both worlds in the automation will inevitably, like you say, potentially decimate parts of the middle class because of the process of creative destruction.
[01:10:41]  It's something that always comes about.
[01:10:43]  It's not always desirable in the short term, but there are arguments to be made that it's desirable in the long term.
[01:10:48]  But you're going to have that creative destruction while at the same time still having tens of millions of people here who are just going to be sucking up tax and benefits from everybody else who is productive in the country.
[01:10:58]  But the pace of change is going to be rapid.
[01:11:01]  That's going to be the thing that's going to confront a lot of the middle class over the next few years.
[01:11:05]  And it may be two salaries, two six-figure salaries that were given a certain standard of living, certain mortgage they can afford that they can no longer afford.
[01:11:14]  And those jobs aren't coming back and the ability to retrain is going to be an issue.
[01:11:17]  So I just wonder how that's going to hit the election in two to three years' time when you've got a significant change to the economy.
[01:11:25]  You've got a recession we're already in in an environment where we are hostile to entrepreneurs.
[01:11:31]  So I think the economy is probably going to, I think I could see a scenario where it's probably the most important point in the next election over immigration.
[01:11:39]  It's going to be huge.
[01:11:40]  It currently is, especially with the cost of living crisis that we're going through.
[01:11:43]  But what I find interesting is that Restore Britain at the moment has been focusing on small business owners, right?
[01:11:49]  And this is a particularly important, because I mean, both you and I are small business owners.
[01:11:53]  How are things going?
[01:11:54]  Small businesses.
[01:11:55]  Well, I've given up on one, two of my small businesses.
[01:11:59]  Just can't be bothered anymore.
[01:12:01]  I mean, I've been through a HR process, which is costing tens of thousands in actual cost, physical cost, and then how much of my productive time, the energy costs are too high, people have got the money to come out and spend.
[01:12:14]  I mean, if you've got anything hospitality at the moment, you're facing an existential crisis to your business.
[01:12:18]  And everybody I know who's running one of these small hospitality businesses struggling, there's no point investing in creating these types of businesses anymore.
[01:12:26]  So I just don't do it.
[01:12:27]  Yeah, I mean, remember when Rachel Reeves was it, quadrupled the rates on pubs.
[01:12:33]  And you'd see pub owners on Twitter being like, I had to pay 18 grand last year.
[01:12:37]  I got paid 72 grand this year.
[01:12:38]  I can't do that.
[01:12:39]  Didn't make 56 grand profit last year.
[01:12:41]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:12:42]  Yeah, no, it's ludicrous.
[01:12:43]  Look, it's tough out there.
[01:12:45]  It's going to get harder.
[01:12:46]  And it's something they should be dealing with head-on now and facing the pain right now.
[01:12:50]  But what they're going to try and do is insulate the pain through to the next election.
[01:12:54]  By the way, what do you think of Labour doing a Hail Mary and making the next election a referendum on rejoining the EU?
[01:13:00]  I mean, I think that's probably not really the most important thing in people's lives.
[01:13:04]  What do you think of them doing it?
[01:13:08]  It would come across very honestly to me, again, as a young person, it would come across really Westminster-brained M25 kind of thinking because whispers are there now at the moment.
[01:13:20]  Most of the people I still hear complaining about Brexit by this point are like, if you accidentally tune into LBC and catch James O'Brien, he's like the number one guy still complaining about Brexit.
[01:13:31]  Now, most people I know are just complaining like, oh, I just fueled up my car yesterday and I'm just like feeling done by it, you know?
[01:13:38]  Yeah.
[01:13:40]  I honestly would be surprised.
[01:13:42]  And I don't think it'd save them anyway.
[01:13:44]  No, I don't think it would.
[01:13:45]  I mean, obviously, I think the Greens are going to just eat their lunch, which is great.
[01:13:49]  But this is the sort of thing that we were talking about at the meeting yesterday, though.
[01:13:54]  Because you are, you're right that this is just something difficult, right?
[01:14:00]  That is perennial across the country.
[01:14:03]  A lot of the people, actually, who turned up at the meeting were, like I said, our age, parents with small businesses and kids and were worried about the state of affairs and the fact that they couldn't exist anymore.
[01:14:15]  And so these are the people that...
[01:14:17]  And another thing as well is that the tone was not frivolous, right?
[01:14:22]  We were like one of the chaps actually was a former conservative canvasser who had been completely disillusioned with that.
[01:14:29]  And he basically said, put your hand up if you want to say something.
[01:14:33]  Because it was, you know, the first meeting was got to know each other.
[01:14:35]  And towards the end, he said, well, I'm really glad at the serious tone that you've taken for the meeting and that we're actually talking about these things that are real issues, both local and national issues, in a way that is actually credible and addressing the issue properly, rather than being frivolous or being evasive or anything like that.
[01:14:56]  Because there are some, you know, we're talking about like, oh, well, the council tax is too high.
[01:15:00]  Yeah, council tax is too high.
[01:15:02]  But reform have learned that there's nothing you can do about that because that's set by central government.
[01:15:05]  So Nigel Farage's doge that was a complete washout.
[01:15:09]  Well, I'm glad he's left holding the bag, looking a bit silly on that, because I wouldn't have made a bunch of promises that I would be able to cut things if I didn't know what the circumstances were like in the councils.
[01:15:19]  They got into the councils and found, oh, no, there's not a huge amount of waste.
[01:15:22]  There's a huge amount of requirement for redistributive spending by the state.
[01:15:26]  And the only way that can be fixed is by becoming the government and repealing this.
[01:15:30]  So, you know, at some points, look, you know, I would like that too, but that's just not, that's beyond the local remit of a local branch, right?
[01:15:38]  But the nature of the atmosphere was just so realistic, right?
[01:15:44]  It was, it was not frivolous or irreverent or ridiculous, you know, no, no, you know, pie-in-the-sky thinking.
[01:15:52]  It was real people.
[01:15:54]  No WWE pyrotechnics as you came on stage.
[01:15:56]  Weirdly, we didn't have any confetti.
[01:15:59]  It was really disgraceful.
[01:16:00]  It's because these people don't mind hard work.
[01:16:02]  Absolutely.
[01:16:03]  And there's a difference between hard work and the difficulty of actually generating a profit now.
[01:16:08]  Yeah.
[01:16:09]  Businesses that were previously profitable.
[01:16:11]  That you just cannot, you can't, you just can't do it.
[01:16:15]  There's too much being leeched away by the state from your business.
[01:16:19]  Rachel Reeves has just looked at every form of wealth creation as something that she can just go and attack and take.
[01:16:25]  Is it just my personal preferences that are being trampled on?
[01:16:28]  But I see you're talking about hospitality, pubs, the amount of tax that's imposed on pubs now feels just hostile to the whole pub culture.
[01:16:37]  It's not just like we need some money.
[01:16:38]  Sorry, you're going to have to pay out.
[01:16:40]  Everything since the pandemic has been going in the same direction.
[01:16:44]  It's been going towards working from home, drinking at home, ordering everything to be delivered to your home.
[01:16:49]  It's really dysfunctional.
[01:16:51]  It's creating, as much as the immigrant thing, it's disfiguring civic life as well.
[01:16:56]  The atomic individual is the most free individual, but also the least threatening to the state.
[01:17:00]  Yeah.
[01:17:02]  A person who doesn't spend time conquering, socializing can never form a faction that can oppose it.
[01:17:07]  It really feels that way, doesn't it?
[01:17:08]  And then obviously the one thing that they're all retreating to, which I do, is social media, and that's the other thing that's under attack.
[01:17:13]  And they're constantly trying to threaten and suggest that they would like to take Twitter's low or the mass license away.
[01:17:19]  I'm less conspiratorial about them wanting to destroy the pub.
[01:17:22]  I just think it's the state of the public finances.
[01:17:25]  They're in so much debt.
[01:17:26]  They've got so many unfunded liabilities they have to consider as well.
[01:17:31]  And I think we're just in the era of mass confiscation.
[01:17:34]  And every time they come to the next budget, they look at every single tax and what can we attack?
[01:17:39]  You know, they attack savings, they attack business, they attack income.
[01:17:42]  They're just attacking everything.
[01:17:44]  This is the age of confiscation.
[01:17:45]  And by the way, there will be more.
[01:17:47]  The next budget, there'll be more.
[01:17:48]  The one that really concerns me is when they bring in the exit tax, because I think that is the one that's going to become in and Green Party are openly supporting the idea of an exit tax because so many people are like, screw this, I'm out of here.
[01:17:59]  And that will have two effects.
[01:18:00]  Obviously, you know, the people who are here trying to exit will exit quickly.
[01:18:05]  But people aren't going to move here, are they?
[01:18:07]  This is the thing.
[01:18:08]  We talk about millionaires moving out, but there's arguably an even vaster problem, which is the fact that nobody's going to come here with wealth creation in mind because they can see it so hostile.
[01:18:17]  Although I don't know where else they would go.
[01:18:18]  There's also a problem with people coming back.
[01:18:19]  So with the recent missiles raining down in a place like Dubai, if you've been gone for three years, you wanted to come back, you would have to repay your back taxes for those previous three years.
[01:18:29]  Now, they should have put a moratorium out straight on that and said, please come back, we won't.
[01:18:32]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:18:33]  Because you could have had taxpayers.
[01:18:34]  At some point, I don't know if it still stands, but at some point, Trump was talking about creating a welcoming package to British millionaires who were there.
[01:18:41]  But I don't know whether there's been any movement or development in that.
[01:18:43]  But that's one of the things that the left need to understand now.
[01:18:47]  There is a global marketplace for rich people.
[01:18:49]  There's a global marketplace for rich people.
[01:18:51]  And capital will go where it's treated well.
[01:18:54]  And French did supported the London property market, wasn't it, after the financial crash?
[01:18:59]  Was an inflow of Russian capital in particular?
[01:19:02]  You just have to accept the reality that there are millionaires in the world, there are billionaires in the world.
[01:19:06]  And they sit down and they all have the conversation.
[01:19:08]  Are you thinking of going?
[01:19:09]  Yes, no.
[01:19:10]  Okay, you are thinking of going.
[01:19:11]  Where are you thinking of going?
[01:19:12]  Well, I've looked at Portugal because it's got this.
[01:19:14]  I've looked at Switzerland because it's got there is a global marketplace of rich people, and it's very easy to fly around the world now.
[01:19:20]  And we are not part of that.
[01:19:22]  We're not competitive in that environment.
[01:19:24]  And again, this could be part of like restore, if they were to do sensible messaging, speak to some of these people and go, like, look, we're not going to tolerate you, like, again, bringing in loads of people for cheap labor, but also we're not going to tax you through the ass.
[01:19:37]  Will that be an acceptable compromise right there?
[01:19:40]  And they might go, okay.
[01:19:42]  I'm going to attract rich people back to this country.
[01:19:44]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:19:44]  You'd want to be here.
[01:19:45]  You can.
[01:19:47]  I'm sure there are lots of rich English people who want to come back to the country because it's where they're from.
[01:19:53]  But they look at the place and they go, well, what is there for me?
[01:19:56]  Well, I'm going to be made poor.
[01:19:58]  I'm going to be put out of business.
[01:20:00]  My kids are going to have all sorts of damaging messaging thrown at them.
[01:20:04]  And then if they put an exit tax in, I'm basically putting myself into prison.
[01:20:08]  So what's the point in coming back?
[01:20:10]  And the thing is, as well, these are the sort of genuinely sort of dangerous conversations to the status quo, right?

=== Fear of Exit Taxes and Poverty (08:46) ===

[01:20:18]  No one, like, where do you see the Conservatives actually having discussions like this?
[01:20:23]  I see the Conservatives tinkering around the edges rather than talking about proper structural systemic changes like we're discussing.
[01:20:30]  And this is why I think we were actually protested.
[01:20:33]  So let's, yeah, yeah, let's watch some protesters.
[01:20:54]  So, I mean...
[01:20:55]  For having a branch meeting.
[01:20:57]  For having a branch meeting.
[01:20:58]  Interesting.
[01:20:58]  So, like a bunch of weird crusties been like, we're choosing love and kindness.
[01:21:03]  It's quite old again.
[01:21:04]  Stop the far right.
[01:21:05]  Yeah, quite old.
[01:21:06]  Yeah.
[01:21:06]  I was on the train out of London on Saturday, wasn't it?
[01:21:10]  The big march.
[01:21:11]  Oh, yeah.
[01:21:11]  Yeah, I was on the train.
[01:21:12]  I was sat, and I was down to Favisham in Kent.
[01:21:14]  I was sat next to an elderly communist couple.
[01:21:17]  They had, you know, like nakedly communist reading material.
[01:21:20]  And they'd been on the, I didn't speak to them, but they'd obviously been on the march.
[01:21:23]  They had their little flasks and their, you know, if you'd seen them briefly, you'd have, oh, bless them, little old couple, you know, but they have this like 100 million deaths on our conscience.
[01:21:34]  A little old couple.
[01:21:35]  Oh, that want me dead.
[01:21:37]  But that's the thing.
[01:21:38]  Like, these people seemed like genuine lunatics.
[01:21:42]  Like, as I was walking in, they started yelling stuff at me.
[01:21:44]  I was like, okay, what do you want to talk about?
[01:21:46]  And they just kept yelling.
[01:21:47]  I was like, okay.
[01:21:49]  And so I just walked in.
[01:21:50]  I would have happily had a conversation with them, but they just sounded like, you know.
[01:21:54]  How can they not know that Black Lives Matter has been completely yellow?
[01:21:58]  Exactly.
[01:21:58]  Like, what year is this sign from?
[01:22:01]  You know, this stand-up to racism paid protesters.
[01:22:04]  It's like, but who sends paid protesters out to a local branch meeting?
[01:22:10]  I feel like these are just leftover signs from whatever protests, whatever big ones they've gone to.
[01:22:15]  But genuinely.
[01:22:16]  Ban the bomb.
[01:22:18]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:22:19]  Like, who are these people?
[01:22:20]  Greenham Common.
[01:22:21]  She may have been born in Greenham Common that one.
[01:22:23]  They've got a sign of an old peace symbol that they've had since the 70s or something.
[01:22:27]  Yeah, maybe.
[01:22:28]  Who knows?
[01:22:29]  But this is the point.
[01:22:30]  Like, there was a kind of unseriousness to the protesters where it felt very sort of hyper-real, where it was like, what do we do?
[01:22:37]  Stand up, fight back.
[01:22:38]  It's like, bro, we're not in charge of anything.
[01:22:40]  We're a bunch of people in the local area.
[01:22:42]  Like, you know, everyone there was from Swindon.
[01:22:45]  We're just local people who are concerned about the people.
[01:22:47]  You think these people were busted in, though, do you?
[01:22:49]  Well, you're feeling.
[01:22:50]  Actually, the chap who's going to be running a Bristol restore came to be present just to see how we're going to do all.
[01:22:57]  And he was like, oh, no, I think these are our guys because I've had it.
[01:23:01]  Because apparently, well, the thing is, the meeting started at like 7.30.
[01:23:05]  And apparently they'd got there a bit early, but they left almost immediately as soon as the meeting began.
[01:23:10]  And he thinks it's because they had to get their bus home.
[01:23:13]  Yeah.
[01:23:14]  There's particular bus times that were getting home.
[01:23:16]  So it's entirely possible that these were not locals.
[01:23:20]  It is interesting, the psychology of it.
[01:23:23]  I don't know how deeply they think about it, but obviously this is not going to be televised.
[01:23:26]  So these people are, you know, their protest is not going to resonate very far outside of this postcode.
[01:23:31]  I suppose they want to try and exert some sort of moral pressure on neutrals who are seeing it, which is tiny, isn't it?
[01:23:37]  You know, really.
[01:23:38]  And they just end up looking ratty.
[01:23:40]  Well, that's the thing.
[01:23:40]  I mean, we got a bit of local news coverage, actually, right?
[01:23:44]  And you can see here, like, there's Thomas from the office, right?
[01:23:48]  Just looking normal.
[01:23:48]  And then look at this guy screaming and yelling at him.
[01:23:51]  And he's just, you know, we're just...
[01:23:52]  Bug-eyed.
[01:23:53]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:23:54]  Bug-eyed, like, weirdo communists.
[01:23:56]  Like, refugees, welcome.
[01:23:58]  Stop the far right.
[01:23:58]  And Tom's just normal blokes standing there being like, I'm just concerned about what's happening.
[01:24:01]  This is this hope, not hate message that's always delivered with anger and violence.
[01:24:05]  Yes.
[01:24:06]  Yeah.
[01:24:07]  That's what I mean.
[01:24:08]  Like, when you saw, like, the people, and they're all very reasonable, and they're just like, no, I'm very serious, and I'm concerned about the future of the country.
[01:24:14]  And you've got these lunatics who are like, no, no, no, this is how we want the country to be.
[01:24:20]  There is something of the calm Chad versus screeching soy jack about this image.
[01:24:26]  There absolutely is.
[01:24:28]  And I was just like, right, these people are just deeply unserious.
[01:24:32]  You're coming out on a Monday evening to protest a local branch meeting.
[01:24:36]  These people are dangerous.
[01:24:37]  They're predators.
[01:24:38]  They will kill you.
[01:24:40]  They will.
[01:24:40]  They absolutely will.
[01:24:41]  I mean, this guy apparently has a history of being an absolute lunatic.
[01:24:44]  So we were glad that the police were there.
[01:24:46]  But the point is, these people are not people who want to solve any of the problems.
[01:24:50]  They're happy with the status quo.
[01:24:51]  They want the status quo.
[01:24:52]  And they recognize us as being something against and outside the status quo.
[01:24:56]  And they're like, oh, no, we've got to stop you.
[01:24:59]  We've got to stop you.
[01:25:00]  It's like, okay, I don't think you're going to, but on the plus side, we're happy to know that we're over the target because we're taking flack.
[01:25:07]  They see the spectra of fascism, don't they?
[01:25:09]  And that wherever they see that, it just activates their neurons and that's it.
[01:25:12]  Off they go.
[01:25:13]  Completely.
[01:25:13]  I mean, one of the funniest things about this is that they say here, well, 40 people attended the gathering.
[01:25:20]  It's like there are more than 40 people in the photo after half the people had left.
[01:25:24]  But what I liked most about this is media were not permitted to attend the meeting inside.
[01:25:30]  You didn't even ask.
[01:25:32]  You didn't ask.
[01:25:32]  I mean, I would have said no because it would be a bit inappropriate, but you didn't even ask.
[01:25:36]  But yeah, so anyway, we got a bit of media coverage as well, which was more exciting than I expected.
[01:25:42]  But for anyone wondering, the meeting went great.
[01:25:45]  Everyone was really, really upbeat, but somber.
[01:25:49]  And like, no blackpilling, right?
[01:25:51]  No blackpilling.
[01:25:52]  Everyone was very, very positive.
[01:25:53]  No, we are going to just get to work.
[01:25:55]  We're going to fix these problems.
[01:25:56]  We're going to get out and do what we need to do to start spreading the message.
[01:26:00]  And it's not just our branch that went really well.
[01:26:02]  Obviously, this is the Western Super Mayor branch.
[01:26:06]  That's a great turnout for someone like Western Super Mayor.
[01:26:10]  We've got branches everywhere.
[01:26:11]  Like, these are all like, there's our one, but these are all other local branches that are just turning out.
[01:26:15]  You realize, like, it's, you know, it's not just, there are some old people, but there are also younger people.
[01:26:20]  There are also middle-aged people.
[01:26:22]  Like, this is actually a representative demographic profile of the country that is actually turning out for Restore.
[01:26:28]  And it's turning out quite significantly.
[01:26:31]  And then you've got Restore doing the national billboard campaign, handsomely modeled there by Harry.
[01:26:36]  Well done, Harry.
[01:26:37]  This is the one in Swindon, but they're everywhere.
[01:26:39]  I mean, here's one in Clacton, for example, that I'm sure Nigel Farage is absolutely thrilled about because he could never put up a billboard that had that message.
[01:26:46]  A party that put the British people first.
[01:26:49]  Farage will never be able to do that.
[01:26:51]  Zia Youssef's going to come out and be like, yes, I put the British people first.
[01:26:54]  Like, well, you know, why can't we have British people in that party then, leading that party?
[01:27:00]  And so you can see that there is actually something to this that is.
[01:27:05]  Oh, apparently, sorry, according to the replies, apparently this says that this is AI.
[01:27:10]  Is it?
[01:27:11]  Is this called AI or real?
[01:27:14]  No, it's AI.
[01:27:15]  So they're saying that they definitely should put one in Clacton, though.
[01:27:18]  Well, this one wasn't AI.
[01:27:20]  So there is a national billboard campaign.
[01:27:22]  Tell it wasn't AI because nobody got me to soyjack it.
[01:27:26]  But the point is, Restore are actually doing the things they need to do to actually get to the point where they need to be in the future.
[01:27:34]  Like you said, a lot can change in three years.
[01:27:36]  And this went really well.
[01:27:37]  And the fact that we got protests, the fact that we've got people attacking us for just having very honestly, like they weren't exciting political conversations.
[01:27:45]  You know, they were like, okay, what are the problems?
[01:27:47]  Potholes, rivers need dredging, you know, things that need emptying.
[01:27:51]  The fact that just, you know, the immigration is a huge problem.
[01:27:54]  The genuine, the cost of living crisis, the genuine problems were the things that we were discussing.
[01:27:59]  And then just to have a bunch of like weirdo soy jacks screeching at us over.
[01:28:04]  It was just like right, okay.
[01:28:07]  I think it was very confirming in a way, is it?
[01:28:09]  No no, we're on the right side of this issue and they're just lunatics.
[01:28:14]  We've got loads of rumble rants.
[01:28:15]  If you want to go through some of the yeah yeah, we'll go yeah so, Octagdor.
[01:28:20]  At this point the conversation devolved into a bingo game.
[01:28:23]  I think we were just like looking at all of the leftist freaks.
[01:28:25]  Yeah yeah, it's not just hospitality.
[01:28:28]  I work in the construction and data infrastructure environment and it's dying.
[01:28:31]  Clients have had their budgets decimated and pay the national insurance and to pay the national insurance and other increases.
[01:28:38]  It blows my mind that, after all the injustices and horrors done to the British people, restore and reform together still don't hit 35.
[01:28:44]  Even with the deplorable Tories thrown in, they're only at 49.
[01:28:48]  Well, one thing to remember is that a lot of these things are localized right, so large areas of England are still just almost entirely white English and so nothing bad is happening in those areas, and so it's it.
[01:28:59]  You know, there's kind of the the fringe that is in direct contact with the way the country has changed.

=== Culture Wars and Class Leveling (02:45) ===

[01:29:04]  They're the people who are most switched on.
[01:29:06]  Yeah, 27 in New Jersey and work in Philly.
[01:29:09]  There's a train to Philly three to four miles from my place, $5.20 round trip.
[01:29:15]  Parking is $21 daily.
[01:29:17]  I drive every day.
[01:29:18]  Anti-social behavior on the train is a constant plus crime risk.
[01:29:22]  So at least with Ryan here the worry about anti-social behavior and low-level violent crime does seem to be a factor, because it's way more expensive for him to drive and, par by the sounds of it, binary surfer Carl's partly correct duty and achievement and status appeal to young men strongly and instinctively.
[01:29:39]  If you made conservatism, right-wing views, high status and duty based yeah, I think that's a good one.
[01:29:45]  I mean, I think it becomes high status on the face of it right, because being a druggie hipst, hippie partier that's very low status, isn't it?
[01:29:55]  I also just think if you have again, I'm biased because I'm a musician but if you have like cool music back into the movement man, that can attract a lot of people.
[01:30:03]  You know I was.
[01:30:03]  I'm reading a book about the 60s at the moment and it's this massive book about like just every aspect of Britain in the 60s and one thing that's really weird is that because they were trying to have this sort of class leveling across the country.
[01:30:17]  All of the working class musicians who came up insanely right wing, like the Beatles, like the, the Kinks, oh yeah, the Kinks look, they're all insanely right wing.
[01:30:27]  George Harrison, tax man, I would still find that hilarious, weren't they on like 95% tax or something when he wrote that show.
[01:30:34]  Yeah yeah, no wonder, no wonder.
[01:30:37]  But I mean, like David Bowie, like gay icon or whatever, but in the mid 70s fascism's a good idea.
[01:30:43]  Yeah yeah, he had a little fascist moment in the mid 70s.
[01:30:47]  I think that was partly cocaine derived as well.
[01:30:49]  I mean, of course, you would say that, like later on, he's like no no, it was just on a lot of cocaine.
[01:30:53]  Like the point is, like you, you could see that Oh, the culture is going very liberal, except all the people creating the culture are not liberals at all.
[01:31:01]  And they're actually like Michael Caine is another one where he's like really reactionary, frankly, in his views.
[01:31:07]  I mean, even like in the late 70s, Johnny Rotten, John Lydon, what is he now?
[01:31:12]  He's kind of like kind of a right-winger.
[01:31:15]  He went on the MAGA thing, and he's certainly not a far leftist or anything these days.
[01:31:20]  So it's just interesting.
[01:31:21]  Again, I think people are breaking cover.
[01:31:24]  Yeah, people are breaking cover.
[01:31:25]  And I think also the problem with there being no centre-right art is because like adventurous and creative people are not stodgy and boring in the way that the centre-left and the centre-right are.
[01:31:38]  You couldn't imagine, I know supposedly he was like a new waiver or something in the 80s, but you couldn't imagine Keir Starmer doing anything daring and inventive to save his life, could you?
[01:31:48]  The best thing you get is Banksy, right?

=== Right-Wingers Breaking Political Cover (02:16) ===

[01:31:49]  The closest thing you get is Banksy.
[01:31:51]  Yeah, the left.
[01:31:52]  Yeah, regime-approved art.
[01:31:54]  Yeah, whereas if you go onto the actual right wing and onto the left-wing as well, that's where you find actively creative people making interesting art.
[01:32:04]  So I've got a great comment from TP here where he's like, don't vote greens, you'll have no future.
[01:32:10]  And the response is just, what future?
[01:32:12]  Right?
[01:32:12]  Because the future for a lot of young people looks quite bleak.
[01:32:15]  And I think that's the issue that we're getting at, right?
[01:32:18]  This messaging is just not going to work anymore.
[01:32:20]  And so the question is, well, what messaging do we use?
[01:32:25]  I'm very much on the duty and responsibility.
[01:32:27]  Yeah, no, no, I'm listening.
[01:32:29]  Yeah.
[01:32:30]  Harry Inergo says, just in terms of like demographics, I sometimes worry there are too many leftists and foreigners to win, especially by 2029.
[01:32:39]  What do we think?
[01:32:40]  No, not in this country.
[01:32:41]  In America, I know it's asked $5.
[01:32:43]  In America, you genuinely have that issue.
[01:32:45]  Because America is something like 57% white now.
[01:32:47]  So the demographics in America are way worse than demographics in Europe.
[01:32:51]  And they're bad here.
[01:32:53]  No, no, we still have that demographic.
[01:32:55]  In America, they have the advantage.
[01:32:57]  I think they've discovered that what they call Latino, whatever, Central and Southern American, turn out to be quite conservative on occasion as well.
[01:33:03]  Family-oriented and the socially conservative.
[01:33:06]  But the problem is the Democrats are like, we're just going to give you free money.
[01:33:09]  So they're basically bribing these electors.
[01:33:11]  Yeah, the thing with that is, though, that, yeah, the Democrats will give them free money.
[01:33:15]  Also, the Democrats do go in a similar way that you find with left-wingers across all of Europe and Britain as well.
[01:33:21]  They go, well, we're not going to apply our standards of insane left-wing social causes to you quite as harshly.
[01:33:29]  And they also go, we'll also get more of your family in and give them free stuff as well.
[01:33:35]  Whereas I actually did, I actually looked into this and found that typically, even with the more socially conservative, like Hispanics and such, like Cubans, when you bring them over, they will still tack much further to the left on issues like immigration and welfare than white Americans do who are voting Republican as well.
[01:33:54]  So you do have to adjust your policies on the demographic, even if they're still voting for you.
[01:34:00]  One of the commenters from the website called this gold tier subscription to the Lotus Eaters was promised to be 3,000 years ago.

=== Online Access for Restore Democrats (01:56) ===

[01:34:06]  It's a great name, by the way.
[01:34:07]  I went to my local branch first Restore Britain meeting, around 100 people turned up, mostly middle-aged, but definitely more younger people than turn up for reform meetings.
[01:34:16]  So I think a lot of what Restore is doing is essentially activating the mums and dads.
[01:34:20]  There are a lot of women at the conference as well, the meeting as well.
[01:34:23]  Not that I wasn't hoping there would be women, but a lot of the time you expect it to be mostly just men.
[01:34:29]  But no, lots of middle-aged mums and dads who are just people who are invested in the system are like, no, no, I need this to be fixed.
[01:34:36]  Well, in Fairness of Restore, they do have Charlie, Connor, Lewis, young people out there with a message.
[01:34:43]  I struggle to think who Reform have is young.
[01:34:48]  Nicholas Lissack.
[01:34:51]  I don't think Nick's first priority is Britain.
[01:34:55]  That's a good point.
[01:34:57]  Montgomery Toms now has come across.
[01:34:58]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:35:00]  And it's funny because of Matt Goodwin's criticism of the online right.
[01:35:05]  But the online right clearly takes the first step.
[01:35:08]  Yeah.
[01:35:08]  Yeah.
[01:35:09]  And everyone, every part of the online right that was previously reformed has gone to restore.
[01:35:14]  But they do have some good young people there.
[01:35:16]  They do.
[01:35:16]  Anyway, we're actually over time, so we're going to have to call it there.
[01:35:19]  So Simon, where can people find more from you?
[01:35:22]  I have a website, TheSimon Evans.
[01:35:24]  All my tour dates are on there.
[01:35:26]  If people are interested to come and see the show, I'm playing in Swindon tonight, as I say, Birmingham tomorrow, Bristol, and then Leicester this week.
[01:35:35]  And the tour is carrying on into the autumn as well.
[01:35:38]  And obviously my Twitter account or X is the same, The Simon Evans.
[01:35:42]  Those are the main two points of access.
[01:35:44]  Peter, where can people find more from you?
[01:35:46]  I have a podcast called The Peter McCormack Show.
[01:35:48]  I've got a very interesting show coming up today at 7 p.m. with Lynn Auden all about the economic system and why we will always be stolen from.
[01:35:56]  Well, that's not great news, is it?
[01:35:58]  But anyway, thanks.
[01:35:59]  That's fun.
[01:36:00]  Thanks for joining us, folks.
[01:36:01]  We'll see you tomorrow.