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July 31, 2024 - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters

01:30:37

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #968

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	Hello and welcome to the podcast of the Lotus Eaters episode 968.
	Today, Wednesday, the 31st of July.
	I am your host, Connor, joined by Carl.
	Hello.
	And our guest, Andrew Gold.
	Hello.
	Thank you very much for joining us.
	Just a quick thing, Samson.
	We can hear the echo coming through there.
	Sorry.
	And one of the lights isn't on.
	Magical.
	We're doing our best over here.
	There's a lot going on.
	Yes, yeah.
	The decline is setting in, but despite our best efforts, it's the outside world.
	Anyway, Andrew, thank you very much for coming in and suffering through the tech issues.
	You've actually interviewed both of us now.
	Carl's interview with you is up.
	Mine's in the works.
	In the next week.
	Yeah.
	Do you mind giving a little brief career history to our audience?
	My God.
	I didn't know I could be asked questions on here.
	Just so everyone knows, I've had to move my seat down to not seem taller than these two.
	Just so everyone knows that.
	I want them all to know that.
	It's Cole's mandate.
	Yes, it was.
	I didn't mandate it.
	I just mandated it.
	Cole looked up at me, so I'm very upset.
	Well, I mean, that is true, but...
	I was a journalist, I started out learning loads of languages, trying to do a sort of Louis Theroux kind of thing, going around the world interviewing nutcases and weird things, UFO believers, that kind of thing, and then was told after some time, because you're a white man you have to go behind camera.
	That obviously pissed me off and made me think a little bit more about the politics of all of this, because I could have had just a cushy life with the BBC and all of those kinds of things.
	And then made a podcast that was about cults because I was interested in all the ideologies.
	Obviously, to anyone who's not insane, the trans thing is a cult.
	Obviously, it's one of the many.
	And I did one out of every 15 or so, was like, okay, let's look at the trans thing.
	Everyone went completely mental every time I did that.
	That's my cult!
	You can't look at that!
	Exactly.
	And I used to say, well, okay, you're not happy I'm talking about your cult, but I get the same thing from the Scientologists and the Jehovah's Witnesses and all of those people.
	So that was frustrating.
	So a year ago I cancelled the whole channel, stopped it, moved to a new one called Heretics, as you've both been on it.
	And it's all the stuff you can't say, because that's what's interesting, isn't it?
	And I don't necessarily like the idea of like, oh, look at who, you know, you know, that old thing of look at who doesn't let you speak.
	Because sometimes people might say horrible things that really are horrible and people are, there's a bit of social stigma.
	Maybe we need a little bit of social stigma to say, hang on, you shouldn't just say it, you know, but with trans, with Islam, with immigration, with some of the aspects that we're dealing with and you guys deal with in this show, that's what I wanted on Heretics.
	And it's doing well and I'm just waiting for the point where I get completely pushed off by YouTube and have to come and live here.
	Yeah, which might happen at some point.
	Especially with your recent interview with a friend of the show, Ritchie Heron.
	You should all go and watch that.
	Also the one with Andy Ngo.
	Lots of friends of the show have been on Andrew's.
	But today, speaking of things we can't say, we're going to cover the Southport protests in the aftermath of the Southport stabbing on Monday.
	Also the simultaneous Southend machete riots, because that's a British pastime we have to embrace now.
	We're having technical difficulties with Rumble, which is absolutely fantastic.
	I love that.
	That's brilliant.
	Well, it's something out of our control, isn't it?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	We're just going to have to be on hiatus momentarily.
	I don't know who can see us.
	So hello, people who can see us.
	Remember that Live Aid, and I think there was an issue, I think it was Ricky Gervais, he was supposed to be introducing Elton John, and Elton just didn't come out.
	So Ricky was right at the early stage of his career at that point, so didn't have the confidence he does today, so suddenly he had to like do 15 minutes of just complete impromptu talking, and it wasn't, I love Ricky Gervais, but it wasn't his best moment, it was just sort of clapping.
	Sorry, I'm just restarting Rumble Stream.
	The other streams will still be running.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Sorry for the people watching.
	Fantastic cameo for all the other screams.
	Very professional outfit we are today.
	There's been a lot going on.
	You've got to forgive us because we have no other excuses.
	I suppose this is a sort of moment of lightheartedness right before what is probably going to be quite harrowing discussion.
	God, it's been a stressful week, isn't it?
	It's been a stressful couple of weeks.
	Right.
	So we're back up.
	So just to recap, we're doing the Southport Riots, the South End Machete Riots, and obviously the fact that the establishment isn't capable of responding to this in a way which is satisfying those outraged.
	Without further ado, Cole.
	Yeah, so last night there were riots in Southport after the stabbing of these, well, it was eight girls, but three of them died tragically.
	And this genuinely is one of the worst things I've ever heard of.
	As of the time of broadcasting, we don't have firm details on the suspect.
	We are aware that his parents are from Rwanda and they came here in 1996, as I understand it.
	But that's basically all the information we have.
	It is important to say there has been a false name circulated, which we will talk about shortly.
	There has been what is presumed to be his real name circulated.
	We will not share or report that because one, he is a minor, no matter the grievousness of his crimes.
	Two, until he has been charged, it will not be released.
	So just out of Journalistic responsibility, we won't be repeating that here and we advise people don't post it in the comments and the like if you think you've identified it.
	Yeah, we'll get to fake news that was going around shortly as well.
	So after the tragic event there was a vigil where thousands of people gathered in Southport As you can see, huge numbers of people gathered to share their condolences and grieve.
	And this was very touching.
	Keir Starmer went down and laid a wreath and got heckled.
	But again, it's not really his fault.
	I'm going to have to disagree.
	We can talk about that another time.
	But there was an interesting event where a man was apparently arrested on the way to the vigil because he had a machete or a knife of some sorts.
	I think it was meant to be a flick blade and he was wearing a bandana.
	Distinctive appearance.
	And so everyone assumed that, ah, this is a Muslim who's going to the vigil with a knife.
	Who knows what that means?
	Just to be clear, we do not know the religion of the person who committed the stabbing at this time.
	So, who knows, right?
	But Josh got a tip off from someone who claims to have known the person who was arrested and says that he wasn't a Muslim.
	Honestly, all of this is up in the air at the moment?
	Well, he was arrested, so he was spotted with the knife at ten to seven.
	He was arrested at five to seven.
	And that was an hour before the planned protest on St.
	Luke's Road had been scheduled to go ahead.
	So word had reached the ears of the people who were agitated and gathering at the time.
	And so, as I put in my tweet there, this was one of the catalyst reasons why they started targeting a mosque, which was seemingly unrelated to Monday's stabbing.
	Yeah, there are other reasons why they're targeted in Moscow as well.
	But the point being, we don't have any solid details.
	So I would strongly advise, if you can't be sure about the things that you are saying, don't say anything.
	And in fact, we may as well move straight on to the fake news then.
	Channel 3 Now, a fake news channel, posted 70-year-old Ali al-Shakati arrested for being the stabber.
	He was not a Syrian refugee.
	This is not his name.
	This is totally false.
	And this was doubtless a significant contributing factor to the protesters essentially becoming rioters in front of a mosque.
	There are other people that we know who did this.
	David Atherton was one of them, not to call him out particular, but lots of people on our side were sharing this name because it confirmed a bunch of people's biases.
	It's not that the Muslim community hasn't produced lots of terrorists or lots of people who have done terrible things, but we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.
	And it doesn't behoove us in any way to be spreading false information, especially.
	Again, David has apologised here, which is exactly what he should do, so of course, you know, that's the correct thing to do in this situation.
	The problem is, as the old Mark Twain quote goes, a liar gets halfway around the world before the truth gets his trousers on.
	And there were people, still yesterday, after the vigil, while the protests were going on, including Lawrence, who mistakenly repeated this claim.
	And so this is another contributing factor as to why the outrage of the crowd, which is completely justified over the atrocity committed, was directed at the wrong target.
	We don't know yet that it wasn't an Islamic terrorist action, do we?
	No.
	That's true, yeah.
	We don't, but we also know that that was not the identity of the man in question.
	And so to report it as fact is erroneous and irresponsible.
	And just so anyone in future sees, anytime you see a screenshot of a news report claiming to be true, just go and track down the website.
	Because I saw it.
	When I found the website, I saw the website didn't look credible.
	Within a couple of hours, the website had changed it, which is why we have an archive link to the false reporting in the description.
	Just be careful, that's all.
	Basically, if you aren't confident about the source, just don't post it.
	Just don't comment about it.
	Just let it slide until the real information comes out.
	It really does do damage to our side of the conversation if we are complicit in spreading fake news.
	So anyway, as you can see, things were getting very tense, and a large protest sprung up around the mosque because of this fake news.
	Now, I just want to be clear.
	Yesterday on the podcast, I told people, do not go down here.
	There is nothing to be gained by going.
	But a lot of people, of course, don't listen to this podcast.
	The more foolish they are.
	And they did decide to go down.
	A local resident did send me a message.
	He'd sent me details as it was unfolding on Monday because his garden, there were police helicopters and evacuation ambulances flying over to verify he lives in the area.
	And he said that there were numerous people that showed up from outside the town with distinct different accents who were clearly spoiling for some kind of fight because they brought booze to the event.
	And so this was a powder keg.
	At 100% and lots of them represented here, sometimes misrepresented by Jack here as locals.
	I think it's clear that a lot of these people are not locals.
	Lots of them at the vigil were, lots of them hectic, pissed on were.
	At kicking down the fence of the mosque, no, lots of them were outsiders.
	At the vigil, yes, but surrounding the mosque, probably not.
	Because at the time of broadcast, there's simply no reason to think this man was a Muslim.
	There's nothing that indicates that yet at all.
	And so you had locals chanting, we want our country back.
	You had people chanting Allah, Allah, who the F is Allah.
	So you can see that this has this sort of distinct aspect of EDL style street politics, which is why the local police said, well, this is the EDL.
	Now, As far as I'm aware, the EDL doesn't really exist.
	It doesn't.
	It was disbanded in 2013.
	So, this is not the EDL, because such an organisation doesn't exist, but it's probably not unfair to characterise it as EDL supporters, or people who would be sympathetic to the EDL, which they should have, frankly, been more careful with their language, but...
	Let's be fair, everyone's been spreading a lot of fake news recently, so it goes both ways.
	It's interesting to hear you guys speak so rationally about this, given your reputation belies that, doesn't it?
	What's our reputation?
	It's an unfair reputation that you have.
	I mean, this idea that if a politician speaks with either of you that they must be banned and thrown out of the house.
	Oh, yeah.
	They actually took the time to listen to how you guys speak, as I've done, and as your listeners and viewers do.
	I mean, it's the polar opposite, not only of what they would expect of you, but of how they behave.
	Because that other side, I mean, you're right in talking about these people who've got, you know, maybe jumped the gun and said the wrong thing.
	But on the other side, we're getting the same thing as well.
	We're having Jess Phillips has just been saying the problem is the Twitter reaction and the mobs and things.
	It's like, well, hang on.
	You know, someone went and stabbed a bunch of children.
	It's a horrific thing.
	The idea that this is the fault of the rioting or the mobs who, as you say, were probably wrong.
	But come on, there were still children killed by an aggressor.
	That's who the problem was.
	Yeah.
	And so, as you can see, things just kept getting worse.
	People started attacking the mosque itself, attacking the fence.
	And so, naturally, police had to come to their assistance and begin preventing the people who were attacking the mosque From actually being able to do property damage, which of course is their job and the correct thing to do.
	So I do want to say one thing on the police, if I may.
	You should never attack a police officer.
	It's neither prudent nor, especially in this case, warranted because they're not at fault for this.
	No.
	And they responded to the situation as quickly as they could and they wanted to save the children's lives.
	I do think there is a perception Since the Palestine protests, since the Leeds and Hare Hills riots, that policing of this sort only ever seems to apply to the English population because they know they will probably comply with it.
	We will get to that in a little bit because there are definitely open aspects of two-tier policing going on.
	And It's not productive, but it's also, as you say, not warranted, not a good thing in and of itself to be so exuberant with the way that you're protesting.
	I mean, if you are going to protest, go and do it calmly.
	You've got to do it calmly.
	Otherwise, whatever you're protesting for, you lose the crowd and you become the story.
	And suddenly the issue that you are trying to raise awareness of is gone completely.
	And you are now in the crosshairs of the powers that be.
	The story is no longer about the mourning crowds who felt that the politicians that turned up to make a spectacle of themselves were insensitive.
	It is now the far-right clashing with the police.
	100%.
	And so speaking of clashing with police, Jack has posted more footage.
	Did you hear about what happened to him?
	Yeah, he got assaulted by the crowd because he was a journalist and they assumed that he was a hostile journalist.
	He's lost a tooth and his stuff has all stolen.
	Yes.
	Public are unfortunately helping him with the surgery needed.
	But again, people on the ground, not very wise.
	I'm not going to play the footage just because I don't know how YouTube would react to it, but this was a particularly violent protest as well.
	Lots of bricks and chunks of mortar and various other heavy objects thrown at the police.
	Lots of people have been injured from this.
	Was it 39 injuries and 8 serious injuries?
	Yeah.
	It's just very, very aggressive.
	Again, I don't really want to play it because I don't know how YouTube will respond to it.
	You can see bricks being thrown there.
	This is not good.
	And these probably are the outside agitators.
	Especially the ones that are masked up.
	Yeah.
	You can't verify their identities.
	You don't know where they came from.
	It's not out of the question there might be some agent provocateurs mixed into the mix.
	And so riot vans were deployed, and as you can see, riot police there with their shields.
	People scaling the vans, setting them alight.
	Yeah, yeah.
	The police were eventually sent in to retreat.
	Much similar to what happened in Leeds, actually, recently.
	Well, I was thinking Ireland, specifically.
	And in Ireland, yeah.
	Because in Parnell Square, obviously, Yeah.
	children and a school worker were stabbed miraculously all survived and this was also a second generation immigrant 50 year old Algerian man and the locals took to the streets started fights with police and it led to the toppling of the Taoiseach at the time so yeah as you can see police van on fire again
	very reminiscent of Hare Hills as well just the same source of scenes but just absolute chaos right this is not in any way a good thing and shouldn't have happened and is totally overwhelming the story about what has actually happened to cause this which is very frustrating thing.
	But as you can see, there's just more events that honestly there's not much point going over.
	So we got a statement from the Home Secretary, which of course was very Strong.
	And we'll compare that in a minute to some of the other statements she's made about other riots that haven't been as strong.
	And I'm not saying it's not warranted either, but one I'm concerned about is this kind of, the hard face towards one community and the soft face towards the other.
	But we'll get to that in a second.
	So anyway, this is what it looked like the next day.
	Obviously an absolute wreck.
	Again, very much like Hare Hills, just absolute bomb shelter, bomb site.
	Which is terrible.
	Yeah, brick walls knocked over, bin burned, rubbish in the streets for audio listeners.
	It's... And as well, this is why I think there might have been a number of outsiders here.
	The difference between the Hare Hills riots and these riots is that these riots have taken place in the neighbourhood.
	Of the people that were attending the vigil.
	So they've now got to deal with not only the loss of their children, but also the destruction of the area.
	The Hare Hills riots, you could see how a group of outsiders who didn't feel it was their home had no qualms about setting fire to their home.
	So I do wonder how many people from outside of Southport were involved in accelerating the violence.
	It seems evident that's happened.
	And the community, of course, is left to clear it up, which is not great.
	A local construction crew just volunteered their time.
	So we have some actual reporting on this.
	Apparently 37 police officers were wounded, 27 were taken to hospital.
	The personnel finally stood down from the major incident at 1.25am, so this lasted well into the night.
	Not good.
	And so, let's have a look at the political response, shall we?
	So Keir Starmer, this was his response to the stabbing itself.
	Horrendous and deeply shocking news emerging from Southport.
	My thoughts with those all affected.
	I would like to thank the police and the emergency services for their swift response.
	I'm being kept updated.
	So, he could be speaking about a tsunami or an earthquake there.
	He could be speaking about a natural disaster.
	He is not saying, whoever did this is getting the full force of the law.
	We are going to come down on that person like a ton of bricks.
	They will, you know, I mean, I could go further, but I won't go too much further.
	But he could be Condemning someone for doing this.
	He's not.
	But what he had to say about the riots, of course, is different.
	The people of Southport are reeling after the horror inflicted upon them yesterday.
	Again, like it was a natural disaster.
	They deserve our support and respect, of course.
	Those who have hijacked the vigil for the victims with violence and thuggery have insulted the community as it grieves.
	They will feel the full force of the law.
	So, just saying.
	Do you have the footage of him being heckled?
	I haven't got it.
	Okay, so given that he showed up as part of what I can only assume is the controlled spontaneity program that they usually inflict on communities in the aftermaths of preventable disasters like this, and was heckled by Local people, some of whom were saying, I know one of the girls that was killed, I held her in my arms and I never will again, why are you showing up here?
	Yeah.
	Given he is the one who has insulted the communities it grieves here, to use that language?
	Bites of irony.
	Kind of cruel irony.
	Yeah, it's very frustrating.
	Why do you think he does that?
	Why do you think he comes down harder on the rioters than the perpetrator?
	Because they have a very plastic view of human nature that does not see people as having cultural and historical baggage, and they are complicit in importing said people who may be more likely to commit said crimes, and so the moment that he does...
	Acknowledge that he has done that.
	He is complicit.
	And also, as we've seen with the Palestinian marches, they view any expression of British patriotism to the contrary, like those servicemen who were hoisting the Union Jack near the Cenotaph, as a provocation to the new arrivals.
	If we just suppressed our culture enough and just spoke about liberal, tolerant British values that could be anywhere, they will just assimilate into the melting pot.
	And so actually, People that are saying, no, no, no, no, this was preventable.
	This was a government policy.
	This is possibly conducted by a group of people who do not like us and will never like us.
	They are the real threat to community cohesion rather than the stab at themselves.
	Moreover, they don't seem to view themselves as the legitimate authority over the immigrant communities.
	Notice how they speak as a kind of an appeal to them.
	It's like, well, we're going to be kind to you and you will then hopefully accept that we're the people in charge.
	That's not how they act towards the English community.
	They say, no, we know we're in charge of you and we're going to use the full force of the law and whatever that entails upon you.
	They could give exactly the same response to the rioting Roma or Muslims or whoever it is in Leeds.
	They could give exactly the same response, but they know that they will lose any kind of community cooperation.
	And okay, well now what do you do when you have small sort of colonies of people who don't really respect the actual legitimate authorities of the United Kingdom?
	You're in a bit of a bind but we'll talk about that in a bit because I thought we'd go on to Yvette Cooper because this was particularly interesting how people started juxtaposing her tenor and response to the say Hare Hills Riot to the riot in Southport and I think it's just worth watching this.
	Well I've been talking to West Yorkshire police officers and also local community leaders about the action they're now taking in response to those unacceptable scenes of disorder and criminality that we saw last night.
	The community is working very closely together in response to what was a local child protection incident but it's really important that the community can feel safe on the streets and also that the perpetrators feel the full force of the law.
	Right, so there's a kind of inauthenticity there, right?
	It's like, well, appalling, appalling, the reaction.
	And the thing is, in the case of the Hare Hills riots, the community was entirely at fault, right?
	It seems that social services stepped in because of a case of child abuse, and the community rioted because of the lawful and legitimate authority that was exercised over them.
	And she's got a very, well, I mean that's awful, we just want the community to be safe, we want them to cooperate, blah blah.
	This is, and note the tone is very conciliatory when it comes to this community, whereas this is her reaction to the Southport riot.
	So appalling to now see those same police facing violent attacks from thugs on the streets who have no respect for a grieving community.
	It's a total disgrace.
	Frankly, this is a time when everyone should be showing respect For a community and for the police.
	Now, I totally agree with the message, but she's a lot more animated, a lot more resolved in her facial expression.
	This is something, she really means this.
	And that's what people are picking up on.
	They're very annoyed about her.
	One of the things from investigating cults that I've found is that belief is not incentivized by the pursuit of accuracy or truth.
	So our beliefs, we don't necessarily, we like to think we hold our beliefs because they're true, but we actually believe them because they make us feel good, because the rest of the cult will say, good on you for having that belief.
	And obviously you can see quite clearly that this is somebody who feels that she will be vindicated, she'll be supported and applauded by her peers for coming down hard on, you know, white blokes, you know, working class people, thugs as she calls them, and will not, it's as simple as that.
	She's just being reined in the stigma around her for attacking anybody who seems to be an immigrant or whatever in the first case is too much for her.
	So I'm sure she genuinely has those beliefs now.
	Oh yeah.
	But that's how it's manifested.
	And in the first clip, there are clearly landmines.
	She has been fed a script to strategically step around.
	This next one, I don't think she was necessarily fed a full script.
	I don't think she needs to be.
	No, this is the point.
	And I just want to be clear, I agree with her on the right.
	I agree with her.
	No, absolutely.
	These people were misinformed.
	They were totally out of line.
	They attacked an innocent party, the mosque and the Muslims there.
	They ruined This event, this vigil for the people who are genuinely grieving, like, I totally agree.
	Come down on them with full force of the law.
	Now apply that to the other side.
	I want the same response for both sides.
	Full force of the law.
	I want anger.
	I want this kind of passion from them.
	But anyway, I thought we'd end this particular part with just looking at who wasn't there, but the people who are still being blamed anyway.
	So I was very careful to watch Mr. Robinson's Twitter feed over this and he did not post the fake name as far as I saw.
	He did not encourage people to go there and he is not in the country because he's currently on the run because he showed a film that they don't want shown.
	So he is not involved in this and responsible.
	He's just commenting on the thing after it's happened.
	Yeah.
	So I thought that was interesting.
	And then today, this morning, he put out a video condemning the riots.
	We're not country back throwing rocks.
	I fully understand your anger.
	And I stand with the heartbroken and devastated community in Southport.
	So he also condemns the people doing it.
	It's correct.
	Responsible.
	Well done.
	But again, there are lots of people, and we'll get to them, who are blaming not only Tommy Robinson, but also Nigel Farage, who put out what I thought was honestly quite a weak, sort of wet statement on it.
	I mean, it's only a minute long.
	We'll listen to it.
	Well it's pretty horrendous, the third young girl has died as a result of the stabbings yesterday in Southport.
	I obviously join everybody in my horror at what has happened.
	I know the Prime Minister went to lay flowers and was heckled and it shows you how unhappy the public are with the state of law and order in our country.
	I have to say there are one or two questions.
	Was this guy being monitored by the security services?
	Some reports say he was, others less sure.
	The police say it's a non-terror incident.
	Just as they said the stabbing of an Army Lieutenant Colonel in uniform on the streets of Kent the other day was a non-terror incident.
	I just wonder whether the truth is being withheld from us.
	I don't know the answer to that.
	I think it is a fair and legitimate question.
	What I do know is something is going horribly wrong in our once beautiful country.
	So I don't think that was an inflammatory statement at all, that's why I called it wet.
	I think it was insufficiently emotionally resonant actually.
	I don't doubt that of course he shares the exact same feeling of horror at looking at Monday's events, but as acting like the king in Waiting,
	It wasn't sympathetic enough and I do think as well it was insufficiently strong compared to the rhetoric we saw last week after the Manchester airport hoax that ironically Richard Tice given he's blocked you now came out very strongly and very correctly alongside Lee Anderson saying no the police did the right thing here I guarantee this is this is all ginned up the same wouldn't be applied to the other side etc and were completely vindicated.
	I feel like he could have been stronger here.
	Well, that's what I'm trying to say.
	I mean, judging the tone of it aside, this isn't an inflammatory thing for him to come out and say.
	These are reasonable questions to which we have not yet got the answer.
	And the answer could be, no, this was a totally non-political thing that has happened.
	Who knows?
	We literally don't know.
	But lots of people are saying, well, this is your fault, Nigel Farage.
	This is your fault, Tommy Robinson.
	It's like, no, I'm not sure it is.
	I think, honestly, it's the fault of a bit of fake news that went around, which neither of these two people shared, but also because of a more deep-seated issue with different communities in the country that has been left unresolved.
	Yeah yeah there's always buzzwords any ideology the buzzword is now Tommy Robinson is a buzzword.
	Nigel Farage is a buzzword and these are thought terminating cliches as you call them in the cult so just anyone can just I mean I've been in groups like that I'm sure you guys have as well for like friends or people you know who are like all that needs to be said is Nigel Farage or Tommy Robinson and then critical thinking just dies in that moment you don't need to say anything more.
	And he's aware of that.
	That's probably why he has that tone.
	He knows that anything he says is going to be misconstrued, picked up by the media.
	So he's putting on his sort of best sad face and his best statesmanly face.
	And there he is.
	And he's doing his best at that.
	But no matter what, he could have said anything and it was going to be picked up as Nigel Farage, Tommy Robson, the usual.
	Nobody thinks.
	Brains turn off.
	The BBC reporting this morning, As of last night during the riots they didn't report about the second arrest at all but this morning they felt it perfectly appropriate to bring on, I can't remember who the other guest was but consecutively, somebody complaining about Farage and then one of the lying communists of Hope Not Hate to explain why it's Farage's fault.
	It's insufferable, isn't it?
	Anyway, let's read some Rumble Super Chats.
	Josie's Angel says, at some point the police will have to be held accountable, just like ours in the US will, every level.
	Possibly.
	The Last Russian says, are my children next, Prime Minister?
	Which is what one of the hecklers said to Keir Starmer.
	And again, it's not Starmer's fault directly, at least.
	But not that I think the Stammer is going to solve any of the problems.
	And Josie's Angels again says, so the families of the victims are too emotional, but Farage isn't enough?
	Do we need Radio Free England?
	I don't want to... I didn't say the families of victims are too emotional.
	No.
	I never said that.
	I actually think it does behoove Nigel to remain calm at a time like this.
	But anyway, let's move on to the other riot that happened yesterday.
	So that was one riot that happened...
	Up in the north, near Liverpool, but down in Essex there's a lovely seaside town.
	Again, it's a very interesting mirror image of each other, right?
	So there's a lovely seaside town in the north, which is Southport, but down near London you have another lovely seaside town called Southend.
	It's not necessarily lovely in recent years.
	It's one of the sort of deprived areas like Clacton is.
	This is me being polite.
	Oh, no, no.
	The people are wonderful.
	It's just another left-behind area from decades of economic mismanagement.
	I know, I know, I know.
	I thought he was being polite.
	I could... People for themselves.
	Please be patient.
	I have autism.
	Since the invention of the aeroplane, the seaside towns and resorts have gone down, that is.
	Undeniably true.
	But, um... Look what they were exposed to yesterday.
	Ah, British pastime.
	Yes.
	You can see kids and families wandering around and like going on the roller coasters in the background.
	Look, up there, on the rollercoaster.
	Oh my god.
	And in front of it, urban youth with machetes, fighting out what I'm sure is a terribly important duel over territory or something.
	And it's like, oh my god.
	This was not the case about three years ago.
	Southend's, should we say, demographics were almost entirely homogenous, working class, white English.
	And something happened And you can see by the time of day, the length of the shadows, this is going to be roughly about the same sort of time as the vigil was going on in Southport.
	There were, again, ethnic youths, and so some sort of riot appears to have happened.
	So this is from a local Twitter account.
	Breaking instance, police helicopter is currently circling Southend Seafront with reports coming in of multiple paramedics and police arriving at Southend on blue lights.
	An air ambulance has landed.
	We are hearing of a pub landlord in the city centre having barricaded the doors to protect customers inside from a developing incident.
	The police have already put out a dispersal order and they'll give you more details than they did post-updates.
	There's a young man running through the high street holding a big carving knife.
	Hmm.
	Big carving knife.
	So it appears that there was some sort of riot in the middle of the town.
	We have more footage of it.
	Here's, again, deeper into the town here.
	With King's English caption.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Young men running around with giant knives or machetes.
	Why would men do this?
	Yeah, why would men generally do this?
	Again, lots and lots and lots of them.
	Jameson, running through the town.
	Certain demographic, particularly well represented.
	Who knows what this is about.
	Do we know that violence, I'm just thinking out loud here, but is it the case that the most hard up areas always are going to have a certain element of crime there and due to immigration and the hardships with immigration when you move somewhere you're going to be among those so then the demographics always going to be ethnic youths who are more involved in the violence that happens now as people who are white or have been here longer gradually move up that chain?
	Well, it's not necessarily that poverty causes crime.
	It's often that crime causes poverty, because if you have a crime-ridden area, no one's going to want to invest.
	This is why lots of areas have never recovered since the 2020 BLM riots, for example.
	As for the demographic breakdown of... Let's put it this way.
	When in the early 20th century, there were Jewish people that moved into the blitzed areas of the East End of London where my granddad was growing up, there were no roaming Jewish machete gangs.
	You didn't know my grandpa.
	Just as we've heard Hong Kong asylum seekers, there are no Hong Kongese grooming gangs.
	There is clearly a cultural and familial difference here that's happened among certain communities and it plays out in crime statistics.
	The fact that we're commanded not to notice that means the problem is going to keep going on.
	Well, you can see the difference in the two riots, right?
	So, in the riot that was mostly English men in the North, well, you didn't see a single machete.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	In this riot, which is mostly not English men, okay, well, now you're seeing machete battles going out on the streets.
	There's a cultural difference.
	These people have different beliefs and ways of looking at the world, and apparently this one allows for some really quite awful behavior.
	I mean, this is a massive riot, a massive brawl that's going on.
	Outside of this McDonald's.
	Well, yeah, I'm going to mute it just because it's quite loud.
	But this is where it all starts kicking off.
	And it's two women fighting in this one.
	The men are trying to pull them out like...
	Who knows what this is all about?
	This is all going to be about nonsense.
	Absolute nonsense.
	But it's just despicable.
	Why are you acting like this?
	The other element to say here is that it's even more jarring when, and I understand news feeds are curated towards certain bias by algorithms and who you follow and the like, but when there is abundant video footage in pretty much every Western country Of many new arrivals committing crimes against either one another, or the host population, or even disturbingly as we've seen in Sweden, or as recent as Southport, second generation immigrants, meaning assimilation efforts are failing.
	When you see these videos time and time again, I can't be compelled to deny the evidence of my own eyes.
	Yeah.
	The difficulty is, though, because I knew it was coming on here, so I was looking up some of the crime stats, and they don't seem to record them very well.
	I couldn't find how many, you know, and I know what you're thinking, and that's done deliberately, and very possibly so.
	The ONS have already said we do it deliberately.
	We want to stop it.
	That's insane.
	Are you familiar with Neil O'Brien, the MP?
	He tried, so if you go and read his sub-stack in his Times pieces, he was the one who collaborated with Robert Jemrick, former immigration minister, on his immigration report, and they had to do painstaking work just getting information on benefits claimants and crime statistics and the like, because they kept filing Freedom of Information requests as MPs to these government departments, and they said, we're not going to collect the data, it's too costly, and when they offered to pay them the money, they said, we don't have the data on hand and we won't publish it.
	But what you can do is look at the ethnic breakdown of prisons.
	You can see who is over and under-represented in the prisons.
	They would use that argument as well, though, wouldn't they?
	The other side, they would say, because the police are harder on... Why aren't there lots of Hindus being locked up?
	They would say that, but I would say that they're wrong, and that's cope.
	Yeah.
	I don't believe it is structural racism, actually.
	I think that these people, and if you were to drill down into it and just pick a random one out of the crowd, you'd say, okay, why is he in jail?
	Well, he's in jail for machete attacks or whatever it is.
	Well, very importantly as well, sorry, before we move on, if you look at the census maps and you map them up with maps of drill rap gangs that operate, because they chant the postcodes that they're operating and admit to crimes, they do map up with uncomfortable demographic questions about the area.
	It's interesting what you say about Hindus actually, because I get really flustered when I try to mention any of this to do with the issues regarding Islam and people immediately go with racist.
	Against what race are we talking about?
	Because I've never said anything about Hindus, Sikhs, please come do your thing.
	There will be individuals of course, there are indecent and decent people in every group.
	There seems to be an issue at the moment with Islam and we can't talk about it because it's seen as racist.
	Well this isn't Islam, this is like urban youth culture, sort of multicultural urban youth culture that's been, a lot of it kind of imported from America, from the sort of gang culture and gangster culture of America.
	Well it's not just America, it is Africa.
	So I went to a grammar school, South East London, you know, it used to be quite a well-to-do area, and they broadened out the catchment area to places like Thames Mead or Erith and the like, and Even though there wasn't that much violence, there was always a tension in the air between the Nigerian and the Ghanaian kids, and the African and the Caribbean kids, and then the black as a collective, and the white kids.
	When you're growing up with it, it's noticeable, and so it doesn't shock me that these things happen.
	But anyway, the authorities, the council, asked people to simply not go to Jubilee Beach, because of course there's a large influx of young people, so these again aren't locals themselves either.
	And the BBC actually have quite a thorough report on this.
	As you can see, eight people were arrested, there were serious injuries reported after violent disorder erupted, quote-unquote, pictured machete-wielding youths.
	So just saying, you know, throwing bricks at police.
	Yes, that's bad.
	This is also bad.
	So the Essex police had to go in and disperse them.
	Seven weapons were seized.
	Videos on social media show people attacking each other.
	But look at the location this was in.
	This was on a beach where families are playing.
	This could have been more children dead.
	This could have been more youths dead.
	Chief Superintendent Morgan Cronin said, I'd like to reassure the wider public that these were targeted attacks involving just a small fraction of the visitors to Southend yesterday.
	Right.
	So the gangs, the big crews, out of those crews, only a few of them were engaged in this kind of ritualized machete combat.
	So don't worry, it's targeted, and it's just a small number of those people.
	It's like, the entire gang is the problem, right?
	If any of them have a machete, they're all culpable.
	Right, and this is the way we used to do the law in this country.
	They all know they're hanging around with violent people who carry machetes, who will get involved in this.
	They know that this is on the cards when they go to these things.
	They're not stupid, they know, right?
	And notice the tone of this.
	It's like, well, it was just target attention involving a small fraction of the visitors to Southend.
	Oh, that's okay then.
	Please understand per capita.
	Yeah, that's okay.
	It's like, I'm sorry, I'm not in any way forgiving of this.
	All of those people are part of a problem that need to be dealt with.
	They're all culpable.
	If one of them has a knife, they should all be punished as if they have knives, as far as I'm concerned.
	Bayo Alaba, who's the MP for South End of Rochford, said, well, this is quite shocking.
	Sent my thoughts out to all of the people involved.
	There are some in hospital with quite serious injuries.
	Those people will have had machetes in their hands.
	Are we really sending our thoughts and prayers out to those people?
	Like, sorry, I'm speechless looking at the videos.
	At the end of the day, we don't want this on our streets and in our community.
	The other question that needs to be asked, and I think the same question needs to be asked of the Southport stabbing, is parents.
	They're culpable in all of this.
	Why is your teenager out on the streets late at night with a machete in his hand?
	Why have you not been supervising the lives of your child where they're involved either in gangs or they're committing premeditated attacks against young girls dance classes?
	The idea that the parents are not in some way culpable for the barbarous actions of their children is strange to me.
	Nobody seems to be suggesting that whatsoever.
	The gang of them.
	It's trying to separate out the actual knife man from the gang itself.
	But the knife man is fighting for prestige within the gang.
	They are culpable because their approval and the status he gains from winning these machete fights They are the ones who are part of that process.
	So I'm sorry, as far as I'm concerned, they're all culpable for this.
	It'd be a difficult law to enforce though, because to what extent did you know?
	Just being present at the scene.
	Present at the scene?
	Present at the scene of a machete fight, you're just as guilty.
	You're running around in this.
	These are all outside people, again.
	In fact, one of the owners of a local arcade said that this was anticipated, there was intelligence that this was going to happen because a beach rave had been organized on TikTok and people had traveled to Southend for it.
	The exact same way the 2011 London riots were organized by BBM or the Leeds and Hare Hills riots were advertised on TikTok and if they can, and I know they absolutely will because they tried to after Ireland, if they can bring in speech legislation to shut down online speech and misinformation that led to the Southport riots for the English, There is absolutely no reason why they can't investigate the messages of the people seen at the scene and seen as to whether or not they were trying to participate in and organize this giant meetup.
	It's just a lack of political will.
	Moreover, the local MP said that they knew this sort of thing would happen because it happened again last year.
	It happened before last year.
	There was exactly the same kind of event organized on TikTok with ritualized machete duels in the same town.
	They know this happens, and as the arcade owner said...
	We knew it was going to happen because it was all a TikTok and nothing was done.
	As Sadiq Khan once said, it's just part and parcel of living in a big city.
	Yeah.
	Again, it should have been dealt with.
	These larger groups meet up with other groups.
	OK, if you have come to participate in that group, you're all culpable.
	You're all guilty.
	You should all be arrested.
	That's as far as I'm concerned.
	The Labour leader of Southend City Council says these are extremely upsetting scenes for our city.
	We know a large number of youths came to Southend with the intent to behave in a deplorable manner.
	Then arrest them.
	Then arrest them.
	Arrest all of the people at Southport who were throwing... Even if those individuals weren't personally throwing a brick, what were you doing there?
	Outside of the mosque?
	No, you get arrested too.
	If you personally didn't have a machete, what were you doing there?
	No, you get arrested too.
	Just being in a part of the social scene that was happening there is enough in my opinion.
	But he says we need to learn how to stop these coordinated events.
	Well, they're doing it on TikTok.
	You know where they're doing it.
	You know how to do this.
	Nigel Farage had a strong statement on this one.
	Well, point being, you know how to stop it as well.
	You stopped Stop and Search about a decade ago now because you said it was racist.
	It was very effective at preventing knife crime because people thought as soon as... The problem that you have is if you have a community that does not necessarily buy into quote-unquote these British values we keep hearing about, which Fundamentally, it's a sort of Christian presumption of the inalienable dignity of an innocent person, right?
	And a neighborly consideration of another person.
	If they don't buy into that, then there's no reason why they should prevent themselves from, one, carrying machete, and two, using it to seek gang prestige.
	The only thing that stops them is fearing solipsistically for their own lives and their own livelihoods.
	And so if you attach massive criminal penalties And you ensure that you will catch these people when they're carrying them, they might do it less.
	If you just take all of the penalties away and you just say, go ahead, yeah, of course you're going to result with more machete attacks.
	I mean, Peter Hitchens points out in The Abolition of Britain that at the turn of the century, we used to hang any criminals who were involved in a criminal activity.
	Where someone died, all of them would hang.
	So, If four people were engaged in like a robbery or something, one of them had a gun and shot someone, all four of them would hang because someone died.
	And so what the criminals would do is essentially pat each other down and make sure no one had brought a gun to this crime to make sure that they didn't all hang.
	And so I'm totally in favor of returning to that style of punishment.
	Not necessarily that we have to hang them.
	Although I am in favour of that.
	But all of these people running, what are you doing?
	What are any of you doing here?
	What do you think you're doing?
	You know, my concern with this, though, is just giving too much power to government to say, hey, they were there, they were there.
	I totally get it in this particular circumstance.
	But once you start giving a government that kind of power to go about saying, hey, you were somewhere, and by association with someone else, you were somewhere as well.
	And next thing, you know, we'll all end up in prison.
	Well, counterpoint, are they not doing that anyway, except just with only one group?
	Well, in what sense?
	Anyone associated with, let's say, the far-right or Mr. Robinson immediately gets lumped in with guilt by association.
	Well, but not arrest.
	Quite a few people have.
	But also, something has to be done to break up this culture.
	The culture of gangs producing machete-wielding champions to fight each other on the streets of seaside towns has to be broken.
	We've just got to find a way to do it without impinging upon individual liberties.
	Let's say I was out with you guys somewhere and you guys didn't know but I was actually a bit mental and I suddenly got a knife out and started doing whatever I was doing.
	Had we reported you to the police?
	But these people know what they're doing.
	This is a culture.
	This is basically ceremonial at this point for these people.
	They know what they're doing.
	They organized it on TikTok.
	This isn't something where the participants are like, oh my God, he has a knife.
	They know.
	They all know.
	And I'm more than happy to have the conversation where there needs to be like, Like gradations of responsibility?
	Yeah, gradations of responsibility and restrictions on how far we go there, absolutely.
	But the people involved need to know that they are going to be criminalised, even if they themselves are not carrying machetes.
	You knowingly turn up to a fight, you're responsible for what happens in the fight.
	Exactly, because you're complicit in it.
	We're also talking about this entire event in the aftermath of the 2020 BLM riots where thousands of people participated in the UK and more severely in the US and were not prosecuted at all even though their faces were on camera they were committing crimes multiple people died there was just a permissiveness in the justice system towards any community which purports to be marginalized and I think it's because they know that they cannot police by consent those communities but they can Yeah, well this is a problem actually.
	Law changing depending on who it is, as you've been discussing, because they're scared.
	They don't know what to do.
	I just had Mark Burbeck on who talks about, he's like a non-Jewish pro-Israel protester, and the difference between how the police treat them to how they treat the pro-Palestine crowds is just because they're scared.
	It's been thrown out of the Conservative Party for saying.
	It's been going on at Speaker's Corner for years, where the Muslim community will come in and show dominance and just start praying, but they're not allowed to do that.
	That's banned.
	You're not allowed to pray at Speaker's Corner.
	So the Christians can't do this, and the police just stand around and watch the Muslims do it.
	And it's like, you know, it's just on display.
	And it is exactly the same.
	They're afraid of this community.
	But anyway, we'll leave that there and go on to the Rumble Super Chats.
	Evan says something quite inflammatory.
	I can't read that.
	Well, not just that.
	We can't read it out.
	He is urging us to disclose the name of the attacker.
	We legally cannot.
	You have to understand this.
	It's not a matter of being cowardly.
	The regime will come for us if we disclose true information.
	So you either keep us on air and you still get your information, or we are martyred for something that is, frankly, useless.
	Just to be clear, we're not even sure we have the correct information yet.
	There are rumours going around, but this hasn't been confirmed by any credible source.
	Until charges have been brought, there is corroborating evidence, but still, it's our responsibility not to give that out.
	Why don't they bring that out?
	Why don't the police say who it was and leave us all speculating?
	I think there are a few reasons there.
	One is because a young child, well not a young child actually, 17 year old, but standard of the law, misspoke there.
	Number two is because before when charges have been, but when the identity of suspects have been leaked before charges have been brought, they have been mistakenly pilloried for that.
	Thinking Dan Witton, for example, not that these situations are comparable.
	And the third one is that because this is inconvenient to the narrative, because this is a second generation Rwandan immigrant.
	So it shows that just by making contact with British institutions and British values across the lifetime, this does not automatically dissolve hostile identity priors in the multicultural milieu.
	There's also, there's a kind of unspoken understanding that There is group guilt, right?
	We don't like to admit this in a modern individualistic liberal society, but they know that there's group guilt, which is why the attacker isn't Rwandan, he's from Cardiff, he's Welsh.
	So the guilt is not placed on a foreign people the guilt is firmly placed on the British because they and this is why every single time they will do everything or a man did this well you could tell us what kind of man you could specify his heritage the culture he comes from but they don't want to do that because they know that group guilt will be accrued by that group and so they do everything they can to obfuscate this for as long as possible in order to prevent that from happening
	And I'm not saying that it's right or wrong either, right?
	The people doing it will be thinking from a moralistic, liberal perspective, saying, well, look, if we do that, we're just going to be inciting hate against this group, and we don't want to do that.
	Okay, I get the point, but the thing exists whether you admit it or not.
	And so if you are constantly playing defense for that group, then it looks like you're in defense of that group, even though you are trying to prevent group Moral culpability.
	It looks like you're in, you're sympathetic to it at that point, so it makes you look bad, as well as the group looking bad, because the moral burden accrued by the group still exists.
	People, I mean, when polled, people are not happy with certain groups in this country that they feel have accrued this moral debt.
	And if you look at like, you know, the sort of likeability of Roma gypsies, the Muslim community and things like that, they're very, very low.
	People hold this in their hearts, whether you want to admit it or not.
	It's also not A racial thing, unlike in some of the European countries.
	No, it's a behavioral thing.
	Exactly, because Britain is commonly ranked as the most likely nation to accept a neighbor of a different ethnicity or having someone marry into their family if their son or daughter loves them.
	So it's predominantly around, does this group feel like they're living alongside me like a neighbor?
	Lots of them don't.
	And to admit that, yet again, the perpetrator is one of these non-neighbourly groups rubs up against the liberal narrative that everyone can be assimilated just as if they're a net economic contributor.
	Just before we move on to the next section, there are lots of Fed posty comments.
	We can't read any of them, guys.
	Come on.
	We have to be responsible.
	I realise this is very emotional at the moment.
	We're doing our best to maintain a very calm demeanour, but trust me, in the back office we've been pretty angry the past week or so.
	Well, I've literally been saying to my missus, OK, when we're married and we want to start a family in the next year, Do I know if I send my daughters off in future to a school or an after school club that they're going to come back alive?
	And so, like, that's a serious consideration.
	Obviously, you as a dad probably also had.
	Well, yeah, obviously.
	And I understand the need for catharsis with all of this, but we can't read these comments out.
	It's out of our hands.
	So I think, Andrew, you brought up a great question earlier, a great point earlier.
	They're afraid.
	And I think that this is because they simply don't know what to do.
	They're stuck with a problem of their own making and they don't know what to do about it.
	As you can see here, just a quick flashback, not even a month, to Anna Soubry, everyone's favourite Liberal Democrat who found themselves in the Conservative Party temporarily.
	It's just me upon the accession of Keir Starmer, but suddenly everything feels normal.
	No more psychodramas and scandals.
	Like the grown-ups are back in government and people can get on with their lives, watching politics out of the corner of their eyes, safe.
	Did you see her tweet yesterday as well, by any chance?
	No, I didn't actually.
	She was tweeting at Lee Anderson saying, oh, has Lee Anderson been on the source or done an incorrect Google and confused Southport with Southend by any chance?
	Because he tweeted the machete text.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And Lee Anderson just quickly retweeted her saying, are you drunk?
	Did you not know these two things were going on at the same time?
	She didn't know.
	She didn't.
	Her filter bubble on social media kept that out.
	I love that first reply bookmarking this one.
	Lewis is a friend of the show.
	You should have him on.
	He's a very good citizen journalist.
	Lewis is great.
	But he's exactly right, and that's why I brought this up.
	Just because, again, 23,000 likes, million views, this is a tweet lots of people felt resonated.
	Oh, thank God, the adults are back in the room.
	It's like, OK, well, we're two, three weeks later.
	How's that looking, actually?
	pretty bad and you know things aren't safe the grown-ups don't seem to be managing this very well because i don't know what it is you guys think you can do about any of this you know it's it's you you guys the heirs of the blairite paradigm have are the people just left holding the bag with all the problems start manifesting themselves as multicultural as multiculturalism does um so
	So I guess we'll start with the mayor of Liverpool City who said, well I don't understand why people want to weaponise the deaths of three children before the investigations have concluded.
	Because they don't feel the investigations are being transparent.
	Yeah, but they don't feel that anything will happen or anything will change.
	It's such a bizarre inclination to, you know, this horrible, horrible things happened.
	A lot of people are very angry and sad and worried, and they want to know why.
	And we're all going, why, why, why?
	And then we've got these people coming out going, why are you weaponizing?
	Don't worry about why, we'll deal with all this.
	Well, you're not dealing with it because it keeps happening.
	And moreover...
	This is policy.
	Allowing millions and millions of people from anywhere in the world, without any consideration to the political history of that country, in the case of Rwanda, or the general crime rate of the country, or the religious tendencies of the country.
	People have been let in indiscriminately.
	That was government policy for the last 25 years.
	And so, why are you weaponising this politically?
	Well, what did you expect?
	Did you not expect a political reaction from your political policy?
	Obviously people are going to respond in this way.
	And this, I don't understand why people want to weaponise it.
	Well then ask them.
	Ask them.
	Go and ask them.
	You can literally just go up to one of the protesters and say, why are you doing this?
	And he'll tell you why.
	Because he doesn't feel safe in his own bloody country.
	It's insufferable.
	I find the response to all of this just absolutely insufferable.
	Also, we're being taunted with this, oh, the grown-ups are back in the room kind of thing.
	You know, the grown-ups who want to increase immigration even more than the previous grown-ups.
	So these are the grown-ups.
	When you're taunted like that, of course your response is going to be, oh yeah, well, let's bookmark this.
	That's what's happened.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	In fact, Keir Starmer being heckled.
	Keir Starmer is actually against the levels of immigration we have, actually.
	Keir Starmer, on paper, wishes to bring these down.
	Okay.
	No, no, I have to argue.
	Sorry.
	Who's his puppet master?
	Tony Blair.
	Yeah, who orchestrated all of this?
	Tony Blair.
	Okay, and right before the general election was called, they had a debate in Parliament about Palestinian refugee visa scheme, and the shadow immigration minister, now the immigration minister, says, we have already drafted a Ukrainian-style refugee visa scheme for Palestinians, considering the cultural and historical baggage.
	That may be brought to bear against the British.
	Yeah, overall numbers don't really matter when you want to import hundreds of thousands of hostile terrorists.
	Well, I'm just saying that he isn't going... I'm not saying that he's going to be based Keir Starmer who's going to get the net immigration down to negative.
	But what he will do is take it down from 700,000 to 300,000.
	Lots of those reforms were already implemented by the last media time secretary.
	Sure, but the reason that it was more than a million coming in every year is because the Conservatives are terrible at everything.
	And Keir Starmer will come in and instantly Tony Blair's trending.
	How fascinating.
	Tony Blair has doubtless been in Keir Starmer's ear going, what are you doing?
	That's unsustainable.
	People will revolt and we won't get the mass immigration that we want.
	We will get an end to immigration entirely.
	You say that though, again, his Justice Minister, first week, 40,000 criminals like Bain.
	I know.
	The entire last few weeks have had multiple riots, multiple stabbings.
	Has Tony Blair been getting on him and going, you've got to get out in front of this, do you?
	This is terrible optics.
	Blair wouldn't have done this.
	Yeah, yeah, that's true.
	So I don't think he's nearly as competent as you think he is.
	No, no, I'm not saying, I don't think it's Blair, I think it's Starmer.
	No, no, I'm saying I don't think Starmer's nearly as competent as you think.
	Well, no, I'm not saying that Starmer is competent, but what I'm saying is I think Starmer will get immigration down to about 300,000 a year net.
	Not that that's good, because one of the advantages of the concept of being utterly incompetent is it makes immigration an unbearable issue.
	Say, well, look, you know, the towns and cities all across the country are changing beyond recognition, at least when it's In your face, in the way the conservatives have put it, it becomes a live political issue.
	But if they turn it down and say, well, you know, it's only 300,000, it's not that much, it becomes much less of a pressure.
	But the thing is, the effect is still the same.
	It just takes a bit longer, right?
	And so, you know, you still end up with the pro-Palestine lot with bigger and bigger mobs.
	Taking longer is important because taking longer, that's the problem that we have is social cohesion and by having so many people so quickly, that's part of the problem.
	If you have people, you hope that within a few generations they start to, but they aren't though.
	The numbers are still just too high.
	It's not just the numbers.
	Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that I could flat pack build houses to accommodate hundreds of thousands of people every year.
	Why should I?
	Why should I?
	I should reserve the right to say, you're not going to be good neighbours.
	No matter what numbers, therefore, you shouldn't come.
	Of course, but the left will say, OK, we need skills, we need jobs, we need whatever.
	Ageing population.
	Yeah.
	That actually counts against having kids.
	Sure, they'll come up with their own answers, but that's not...
	Jermaine, to the issue of integration, right?
	The issue of integration can't happen because the people who hold British values do not live around the immigrants.
	And so the immigrants have no long exposure to the values.
	They can't imbibe them.
	They can't feel pressured to adopt them.
	And it's because we have handled this in the absolute worst way.
	Because what we've done is allowed the immigrants to go wherever they want, right?
	Norway didn't do this.
	Norway literally told them, no, you're going to this remote Norwegian town, and it's just your family's going to this one town, so you're going to integrate, because you're literally the only family there, right?
	And so the Norwegian process of this has been a lot better than ours.
	We've just allowed colonies to spring up.
	It's like, yeah, go where you like, it doesn't really matter.
	It's like, no, this absolutely matters.
	And when it's 300,000 a year, you know, net, or 700,000 a year net, the number is just far too high.
	It would have to be something like 10 or 20,000 for this to not happen, but we're way beyond that now.
	And as Connor says, we have to then encourage higher birth rates to keep up.
	Absolutely.
	And notice how the conversation is not about integration anymore.
	No one ever mentions integration anymore.
	This just doesn't come up because what are they going to integrate into?
	Like Luton is two-thirds non-English.
	How are they going to integrate into the English community when the English community is swamped by foreign peoples?
	And also, any time the English are brought up as having a collective ethnic and cultural and historical identity, it's being beaten with the unique and inappropriate cudgel of slavery and all of these other things, despite us having a better track record on those things.
	You know, it's a funny thing, and I'm sure you've seen this before, but I lived in Argentina for six years, and I came to realise that I always thought of nationalism as a very right-wing thing, of course, and it was the left over there.
	And then I came to realise other countries, Canada, for example, it's the left that tends to be very nationalistic.
	It's the countries that see themselves as a little bit smaller on the world stage.
	The left gets really nationalistic.
	And it was so interesting to see lefty Argentines over there.
	Just love it, all the Evita Peron stuff, they've got cafes called Evita Evita or something like that and they all do the national anthem, they're loving the football team and it's so bizarre and then you come back and it's any pride in your country here, people are going in a derogatory way, you're right-wing this and that and really nationalism can be anywhere and we should be able to be proud of our country without having to pick a side politically.
	No, I think that's totally true but the problem is our left has become an internationalist left They're for everything non-British and everything foreign.
	So it's just like, okay, well then, how can we... Because I mean, like, you know, the sort of blue labour types, I don't doubt I would get on with very, very well.
	You know, the sort of... The largest socially conservative cohort in this country are not satirised economically.
	No, absolutely.
	This is something that Matt Goodwin's pointed out, and this is a limitation, actually, to reform's reach electorally, is that their economic policies are off-putting to people in the Red Wall.
	Yeah, but on a sort of patriotic level.
	These people are going to be just as patriotic as anyone else.
	They're not internationalists, and that's the different fracture we've got now.
	Speaking of internationalists actually, let's take Humza Yousaf.
	Incredible, right?
	So, of course, police monitoring the far-right rally, and he responds to, simply, awful.
	The only response to the evil we witnessed in Southport today should be an outpouring of grief for the children and adults killed in such a senseless attack.
	If you use such a tragedy, a horrific tragedy, to fuel bigotry, then you are the worst of humanity.
	It's not the only response.
	Now, we should ask, was this preventable, actually?
	Yeah, that's what I did ask, and I really showed the hell out of him.
	His use of worst implies worse than the actual murderer.
	Exactly.
	That's insane.
	But he's insane.
	Well, is he insane, or is he just evil himself?
	Because you will remember his white speech.
	Head of police, white.
	I can't do a Scottish accent.
	White.
	White.
	The victims in Southport, white.
	Sorry, Hamza, I think you hate white people, and I think it's fair to say that you hate white people.
	I think there's good evidence as to why that may be the case.
	And if you think that being a racist is worse than stabbing children, then I think you're mad.
	Plus we don't, I mean, were they all racist or were they concerned about?
	Well, that's, yeah, obviously.
	Yeah.
	Obviously.
	But, but let's just take it as a given.
	They're all racist sums up.
	Just the steel man, your argument, they're still not as bad as the people, the person who murdered a bunch of children.
	Just think, throughout time, everyone's racist.
	That's human, right?
	We're tribal.
	Every single person, especially you two.
	No, I'm joking.
	Especially Hamza.
	Especially Hamza.
	It's always been the case that we notice differences, whether it be race, height, whatever.
	Somebody looks like your mum, so you're nicer or less nicer.
	That's just humanity.
	But we create social stigma, we create societies around us that say this part of bigotry, let's say, is acceptable today.
	And Humza has found that loophole.
	So he's just as racist and angry as we all are sometimes, but in this particular time and place, he's able to do that anti-white racism.
	In 50 years it'll be something else you're allowed to have a go at.
	And to be particularly cynical about this, I kind of feel that if the Stabber's parents hadn't come from Rwanda and perhaps had come from Scotland, then he wouldn't be quite as like, oh, you know, the racists are the real problem here.
	You know, if he'd come, if he, if he was white himself, I don't think they'd be complaining about the far-right rally so much, you know, just to say.
	I can only guess.
	And so the, The response from Keir Starmer, Humza Yousaf basically was calling for censorship as well.
	We need to take action against the far right.
	Here we go!
	Stabbings!
	Aren't something we need to worry about.
	We need to prescribe the English Defence League.
	Well, let's prescribe the Nazi Party as well, if we're prescribing things that don't exist.
	Yeah, but then that might render the SNP out of existence.
	Good point, good point.
	But the English Defence League doesn't exist, they were disbanded in 2013, so prescribing them wouldn't do anything.
	The people themselves would still exist and Taking action against them because they were angry?
	Well, I mean, sure, take legal action, you know, against the guys involved in the riot.
	Again, I'm happy for them all to be collectively punished.
	What were you doing there?
	All of you in the videos, boom.
	Whatever the punishment is, I don't mind.
	But this is the natural left-wing response.
	Because what this does, and this is what really is the underlying tectonic shift that they're feeling, is this is the inherent weakness of multiculturalism.
	And if one side acts like the other side, then There is a distinct power imbalance there, right?
	The Roma community of Leeds or Hare Hills is not going to have the same kind of political power as the English community if they operate in the same way and this is what they're afraid of.
	Oh no, if that happens then the entire thing gets flipped and we essentially turn into an English nationalist country because if there is a sort of collective politicization Along the lines of these identities, we're happy to politicise all of the minority identities against the majority who are not allowed to be politicised, but if they find legitimate reason to politicise themselves, then it's an English nationalist country and it will be forever.
	People like Humza Yousaf are the ones who are going to be actually on the outside of the paradigm, whereas at the moment he's right in the centre of it.
	And so that's why they're terribly afraid, and that's why they want prescription of the English Defence League.
	They just want all the far right, all of those people who represent Indigenous identity, need to be made illegal.
	Because if they're legal, they can flip this entire board, and that's what he's worried about.
	Can you imagine if I ran to be, what was he, what minister was he?
	First minister of Scotland.
	If I was the first minister of, like... Rwanda.
	Yeah, or Bangladesh.
	Bangladesh, just go in, this person, right?
	Bangladeshi.
	Bangladeshi.
	Bangladeshi, what's going on?
	I just can't believe that.
	It's mad, isn't it?
	It's, it's, when you think of it, when you sort of zoom out a bit, it's, it's incredible.
	We've gotten to this point.
	I think about this a lot, having lived in different countries and then you come back to England, you go, Oh my God, the sensibilities we have, aside from maybe Canada, Australia, parts of America.
	The Anglos there.
	Yeah.
	They're nothing like anywhere, anywhere else.
	There was that big story about the Argentinian football team.
	They sung a song that was deemed racist and it probably was racist.
	I don't know.
	When they won the Copa America football thing recently.
	And I know from being in Argentina, they have a different attitude.
	They make jokes about race and it's actually going okay for them.
	They find race is funny and they can joke about it.
	They don't care.
	Whereas here, all I'm getting on the radio, everyone's opinion, every single person was just, okay, so what if he apologised?
	He needs to be punished more.
	Punish the guy for singing the song.
	Punish him.
	Re-educate.
	We need to send him to re-education camps.
	And you go, how is this moral imperialism allowed from the left?
	The left are going, you know, well, don't tell other cultures how to do it.
	Unless it's about wokeness, then we're going to go and tell them.
	Go in and tell this country that's doing fine on its own.
	I get so frustrated about this.
	I actually lose sleep over it.
	But the questions of representation are really important.
	I mean, you can't imagine going to any foreign country outside of Europe and North America and expecting to see the people at the top of that country not being of the ethnic majority.
	Like that would be crazy if you went to China and there was like some Peruvian in charge and there were a bunch of Peruvians in the rival parties and there were Peruvians in all of the levels of government and civil service.
	You'd be like, did you guys get taken over or something?
	And yet look at the conservative party leadership contest at the moment.
	So what is happening here, man?
	Kemi Badenoch's chief selling point is that Britain is not a racist country, lefties, because look how far I've gotten.
	And it's not right.
	So the premise of that is, if you had not gotten to the position you are, and if you don't keep advancing in positions, then somewhere along the chain, there is institutional racism that indicts the entire country.
	Actually, no, I don't need to elect you Prime Minister to feel better about myself.
	Yeah.
	And moreover, if we're going to talk about representation, how does Humza Yousaf actually represent Scottish people?
	You know, it seems to be actively racist against them.
	Yeah.
	Well, I think of Moshe Ali as well.
	Yeah.
	You know, the Ali Akbar stuff.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And people just saying, oh, God is great.
	Are you kidding me?
	It's got no other connotation.
	Yeah.
	No other connotation.
	You're supposed to shout that in the cinema and everyone's going to remain in their seats.
	He's just been elected to represent the British people, the British people who hear that word in their worst nightmares.
	If he isn't aware that there's another connotation for us, and again, imagine me going to some Arabic country and speaking Hebrew or something when I've been elected to the I don't think you'd last very long.
	Minister of Defence?
	Arab!
	Won't get out of the airport.
	So yeah, Humza Yousaf had awful takes, but what's the prize there?
	Keir Starmer had an awful take as well.
	Oh, well, the problem with Southport is knife crime.
	And this is the worst framing I've seen ever.
	It's like the scene in Macbeth, where just the visage appears floating towards Duncan.
	It's like, no, the knife did not animate itself.
	Suspended in the air, funnily enough.
	Someone was holding it.
	Who was that person?
	Oh, we can't ask questions.
	I hate this so much, because this isn't knife crime.
	Because when we say knife crime in Britain, what we're talking about is actually the South End events, where it's youths going around with weapons, stabbing each other in the street.
	That's not what happened in Southport.
	What happened in Southport was a conscious, targeted attack.
	We know that the man who did this wore a balaclava, chose his target, got a taxi there, refused to pay the taxi driver, and then went in and conducted what looks like a terror attack.
	Now again, I don't know what the reasons for it were yet, obviously, but this wasn't just Gangs of people on the street fighting each other.
	This is not knife crime.
	This was an attack, a targeted attack, on the most vulnerable people he could find, which was schoolgirls.
	So, you know, for the fact that Keir Starmer can't even admit and has to try and pivot to something else is disgraceful, in my opinion, absolutely disgraceful.
	But again, he doesn't know what to do.
	What's he supposed to do?
	He's afraid.
	Well, knives are bad, yeah, but that wasn't the issue.
	That wasn't the issue.
	The issue was someone wanted to kill a bunch of English children.
	Why did he want that, Keir?
	Today isn't... I suppose it would be irresponsible, before he knows more.
	You'd like to think he does know a bit more at this point.
	Maybe, yeah.
	It could just be a person who has mental health difficulties.
	Could be anything.
	Yeah.
	We don't know.
	And they haven't told us.
	Hang on, but that doesn't preclude us from holding them culpable.
	I mean, remember the Nottingham stabbing?
	He got held... He was found guilty of manslaughter and put in a psych ward.
	Sorry, every other American serial killer.
	I mean, nobody would think that Jeffrey Dahmer didn't have mental health difficulties.
	Still found him culpable enough to send him to prison for life.
	Or Ted Bundy.
	Like, we were perfectly happy to stick him in the election.
	But what I mean is that at this point, Keir Starmer, there's, as you say, there's very little he really could say, because it could be a mental health issue.
	And then he's supposed to be saying, hey, we need to do something about mental health.
	It could be an Islam issue.
	And then he has to say, you know, but at this point, he can't really- Sure, but Karl's right in that it's not knife crime.
	It wasn't the spontaneous turf.
	It was a targeted attack.
	Whether or not it's Islamic terror is irrelevant to the point.
	It was a terror attack.
	It was an attack that was designed to strike fear in the heart of a particular community.
	And we don't know the reason for it yet.
	So there was a lot of discussion on LBC and elsewhere.
	This is just the totemic example.
	If he was born in Cardiff then surely he's Welsh.
	Right, yeah, because if I'm born in a stable then surely I'm a horse.
	I was born in a hospital so surely I'm a doctor, right?
	It's ludicrous.
	What does make someone Welsh then?
	Well, it's an ethnicity, right?
	Any ethnicity is passed down through heredity.
	You inherit your ethnic identity and your ethnic being through your parents.
	Now, I'm not saying this kid isn't culturally acclimatised to being Welsh, I don't know.
	He clearly isn't.
	Well, I don't know.
	Again, I don't want to make any kind of statement.
	Well, I don't think it's in Welsh culture to go and stab a bunch of schoolgirls.
	Sure, but he might have been mentally ill or something like that.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	And I'm not saying either way, right?
	But this is the thing.
	This is the magic soil view, right?
	This is the, well, he was born in Cardiff, therefore he must be Welsh.
	That's not how ethnicity works, I'm afraid, right?
	It's nationality, isn't it?
	Welsh is nationality.
	I don't know, actually.
	Yeah, but the question here is whether or not there is a different and incompatible cultural identity with the host nation.
	That's true.
	Yeah, that doesn't make him not Welsh.
	We don't know how he identifies himself, that's the thing.
	Because if this person has, and this is a problem we have with a lot of second generation immigrants, is actually they feel their identities are tied very much to their home countries.
	Even though they themselves haven't been to these home countries.
	They still long for whatever it is that they feel has been taken away from them.
	And so, I don't know, did he call himself Welsh?
	It's entirely possible that he doesn't.
	Would you say that's what it is then?
	Because it is subjective, I think, what a nationality or whatever it is.
	Well, at least the personal identity.
	I'm just thinking of footballers who play for England who are black and maybe they had parents from Africa.
	To me, they're pretty English.
	These are English guys.
	No, they're British by citizenship, but they're not ethnically English.
	And that doesn't mean that they're any less people, it just means it's not true that they're ethnically English.
	And that's fine, that's alright.
	And the thing is as well, if they've been born here, and they want to play for the England team, clearly, in their hearts and minds, it's their homeland.
	That's the story they tell themselves.
	Was this chap, born in Wales, Welsh, by the story he told himself?
	I think that if he goes and stabs young girls, I don't think that's a very Welsh thing to do.
	He doesn't see the Welsh or the English.
	Well, that's why I asked.
	Is it a self-identifying thing?
	It's a mixture.
	But the problem with this is that it conceals all of the complexities of identity, right?
	And it's a comforting lie we tell ourselves.
	It's like, okay, well, I mean, there are loads of Islamic radicals who have been born here, gone to commit horrific attacks, And they are in their hearts not of this place, right?
	But we say, oh, he was born in Luton, he must have been British or must have been English.
	No, he feels a very strong connection to his ancestral homeland that is in some way denied Because he's been born and raised over here.
	And we actually don't apply the standard elsewhere.
	We don't say that India's most famous poet is Rudyard Kipling, even though he was born and raised in India.
	He's not an Indian, and we know he's not an Indian.
	We know he's an Englishman, and we know the Indians knew he was an Englishman because he got kicked out upon decolonization.
	So there is a lot underneath this that's a very long and complex conversation that simply saying, well, if he's born in Cardiff, he's Welsh, bro.
	completely obscures and makes you sound totally ignorant on the subject.
	That's the problem.
	I agree with that.
	I'm not comfortable with what ethnically English or Welsh necessarily even means and how far back we take that.
	But with regards to self-identifying as an English person, as you say with Kipling, obviously he didn't identify as an Indian person, didn't take on their cultural mores.
	But I don't want to be rude.
	Whether or not you're comfortable with it doesn't change the fact that it is a reality.
	Well, how far back do you, I mean, have you had the DNA tests?
	Well, okay, let's, let's, for example, um, I, so I'm an Englishman.
	My mum's half of the family, my nan's Irish, born in Ireland, brought up with an Irish accent, moved over.
	So I'm ethnically part Irish.
	I'm not going to call myself an Irishman, but that is a composition of my ethnicity.
	It's not necessarily a strong part of my identity, but it is real.
	Islam has said you're an Englishman, you were born... I understand that is simplified, it's too simple, but would it then be fair to say no?
	What do you mean he's part Irish?
	But that doesn't mean that he can't also be English.
	This is what I mean where this is a very complex conversation.
	But the problem, one of the factors, aspects of ethnicity is because it's hereditary, it grounds you in something.
	And if your parents are both Rwandan, you don't have any of that heritage.
	This is why marrying into a tribe is so important.
	So your children are in fact a mix of the two ethnic groups that have a rootedness in the place from which they're raised.
	And so they can't get away from the fact that, no, you're half Welsh or you're half whatever.
	You have to accept that that's a part of yourself.
	It still feels more cultural than ethnic, what you're describing.
	The thing is, there's no difference, right?
	I'm not saying it's racial, because an ethnicity isn't just the biological level.
	It's the habits, it's the religion, it's the moral values, it's the history that led up to this point.
	It's a whole continuum of things, and we want to try and separate certain things out for convenience.
	In this case, for example.
	But it's just not that easy.
	These are all things that are tied together.
	And saying, well, he was born in Cardiff, he's Welsh, reduces it all to this one geographic location, which isn't accurate and ignores and obscures so much that's happening.
	But as we're running low on time, I think we're going to have to move on a bit.
	Sorry, we probably won't get very many comments on this one, but there's been a lot to cover.
	So, uh, Femi... Oh, I'm so angry.
	Go on, I didn't want to give Femi the time of day because it got me blocked anyway.
	No, no, but this is the perfect encapsulation of... it's civilization's collective fault that produces the criminal.
	He says, how could we let this happen?
	How can a 17-year-old commit such horrendous acts of violence?
	What was wrong with him?
	Can we improve safeguards to catch warning signs of these kinds of mentalities?
	Twitter, nah, it's his nefnicity.
	It's like, Again, he was not telling himself the cultural story, the people he was living around were his fellow countrymen, which is why he felt entitled to go and stab a bunch of children.
	And funnily enough, other than his parents and their lax parenting, presumably, nobody except him bears moral responsibility for this.
	It's not my fault as a taxpayer, because I didn't pay for enough youth clubs to occupy his time, that he therefore had the mentality of stabbing a bunch of children.
	To be fair, I feel we may be jumping the gun a bit here, because like I said, we only know that he is of Rwandan ethnicity.
	And that's pretty much it.
	Yes, but his indictment is the very Rousseauian view of how civilisation instructs the criminal.
	I agree, I agree.
	So I'm not accepting it.
	But I would like concrete details as to why this kid did this.
	Because again, the whole thing must have required some planning.
	You know, you must have known that on a Saturday... Because I saw a report from one of the people on the ground, a local, saying, well look, if you didn't know this thing was here, you wouldn't be able to find it by just walking past it.
	It's down an alleyway, yeah.
	Yeah, it's down an alleyway in a church hall or something like that, town hall or something.
	You know, there are other things around in the same building and stuff like that.
	So you must have had that in your mind, right?
	A group of girls, young girls are going to be doing ballet there.
	I'm going to get the taxi there with my mask on, with my knife, and I'm going to go in there and, you know, go down the alley and find it.
	So he must have had a conscious plan to take action.
	And so, like, you know, if this was a random stabbing in a supermarket or something, you could be like, okay, he didn't have a plan.
	Maybe he's just mental or something and just snapped or whatever.
	But this was something that was premeditated and calculated in advance.
	So until I get some information about that, I don't want to make any blanket statements.
	They'll never tell us.
	They may well never tell us.
	No, they won't.
	They'll just say don't look back in anger.
	Yeah, it's really annoying.
	You ever see that South Park episode where they go to San Francisco and start smelling their own farts?
	Yes.
	That's Femi.
	Yes, that is Femi.
	You can imagine writing that, maybe with some nicer classical music on, nicer lights, smelling the farts.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, so one thing I hate is the shitlib journo class who are The worst people in the world, frankly.
	I genuinely hate this kind of middle-class snobbery.
	Shameful.
	The idea that the thugs behind this call themselves patriots is risible.
	What they did last night is odious.
	Yeah, I agree.
	I agree.
	They were in the wrong.
	Didn't he defend Hugh Edwards?
	Quite possibly, but that's irrelevant.
	Again, a similar thing from Tim Walker.
	I feel ashamed of our country on days like this.
	Yeah, I'm ashamed for you as well.
	But the point that I really hate that comes across from this is that this becomes an excuse to go, ah, finally, Don't worry about the kid who stabbed the children.
	We don't have to worry about that.
	That's a difficult conversation.
	I don't have to have that.
	But what's an easy conversation is shitting on the working class.
	That's really easy.
	Fantastic.
	So the court jester of the middle class can come out and be like, oh, get these, you know, people behind bars.
	I hate the working class.
	Oh, look at them, they're all bad.
	It's like, no, they're unrepresented.
	They're not being listened to.
	And they're frustrated.
	They didn't do this out of nothing.
	And they did this because people like you occupy the discourse and don't give them the time of day because of your bigotry towards them.
	This is why I genuinely hate the middle class.
	Jonathan Pye has really sort of gone a bit off.
	Oh, totally.
	But he's just really embraced the proper role of the court jester of the Keir Starmer era.
	Will Andrew Doyle stop writing for him as well?
	Exactly.
	That's why he stopped being interesting.
	But one thing I thought was really interesting was Clef Fox, who went on TalkTV and really actually hammered and hit on the main underpinning point.
	Let's watch this.
	... happening in front of your very eyes.
	I know somebody, everybody knows somebody who's seen stuff being lifted from a shop, seen somebody running out of a shop, seen somebody having a fight in the middle of the street, seen somebody running down... ... people all over social media saying, the name this person is, and he's...
	I can't remember exactly what the timestamp was.
	But as you say there, the quote is, people refuse to acknowledge that we've got a problem of Islamism.
	And that's what the people attacking the mosque were responding to.
	Now, in this particular case, they were misdirected, they were wrong, but the reason that they're there, and the reason that this is such a live, an open wound, is because there is a real problem with The clash of cultures between Islamic civilization and British civilization.
	And the people, the John Sopels of the world, the Jonathan Pys of the world, are not exposed to that.
	They're not exposed to the raw edge of what happens.
	However, the people who are going and protesting in Southport, rioting in Southport, they're the ones who are, you know, they're the ones who have had this imposed upon them.
	And so, Do you remember 10 years, or 15 years ago, Stacey Dooley did that documentary?
	She did.
	And she couldn't make that now, could she?
	No.
	I mean, she's white as well, and white women now, in the hierarchy Olympics, are not doing too well.
	They're almost as bad as being a white man, being a white woman nowadays.
	She was able to do that.
	She would never be able to do that now, so what's changed there?
	And that was in 2011 as well.
	You can see how, like, Stacey Dooley is the sort of person who would normally just fall completely into sort of like, you know, the early 2000s love actually consensus, right?
	Where it's just like, yeah, this is the nice multi-culti world we live in.
	And she's watching the women in burqas calling her all sorts of things.
	She's like, oh my God, what's happening?
	It's like, yeah, what is happening?
	And that was 13 years ago now, right?
	How much worse has it got?
	Well, quite a lot worse.
	And yet we're still at the point where we're just going to demonise the working class for being like, guys, this is really affecting us.
	It's gotten so much worse that we've actually gone past the point where you could make a documentary like that, even exposing it.
	That's scary.
	And there's not even any need to make a documentary like that anymore.
	Everyone can see it.
	It's just in everyone's face.
	People deny it.
	A lot of people deny it's happening.
	That is true, but I'm of the opinion that the second the NIMBY Lib Dem voter gets the ethnic diversity running down their street with a machete, they're voting BNP.
	I think they're going to flip instantly.
	Too late by them.
	Well yeah, it might well be too late by then, but I'm certain those people will go quite right-wing.
	But as we're running out of time, I'm just going to run through a few comments.
	Sorry for missing a couple of these Super Chats.
	They're almost all Fed posts.
	Other than Ramshackle Otter who says, love Andrew and his channel, great to have him on.
	I do worry that yes, while we want criminals locked up, Andrew's right, we don't want a police state.
	I just think apply the law equally and as forcefully as it was before 1997.
	That would have been sensible.
	I like the Andrew is right bit, can we get that framed?
	Bring it home, put it on the wall.
	I'm gonna have to skip some of the comments just because they're not relevant, but Jimbo says, it's shocking but unsurprising how fast that fake name spread around social media.
	That definitely contributed to the riots, but frankly it feels like the general public are waiting to snap.
	These sorts of acts have been normalized throughout Europe, people are fed up.
	Yeah, there does seem to have been a tension that was underpinning just civilization and our society.
	So we're not going to have time for the video comments.
	I'm really sorry, guys, but a lot's happened, and I want to keep specifically germane to the topic.
	There does seem to have been just frustration and pressure and a genuine wellspring of emotion that was already there.
	I just say that we don't know that it wasn't an Islamist attack.
	We don't know.
	So we absolutely don't know.
	And history and precedent shows us that there's a fairly good chance that it is.
	So I totally get wrong name.
	This is awful.
	Should never happen.
	But let's also not go fully the other way and say, oh, so that, you know.
	There's a reason people are angry.
	It didn't happen in isolation.
	No.
	It's just imprudent to therefore make the target a mosque.
	Absolutely.
	I think it's much more prudent to make, not of violence, but of organised action, the target the politicians who have actively accelerated and enabled this to happen to certain communities and who, as soon as a criminal does this sort of thing, blames it on mental health or blames it on floating knives and does not send them back to their country of origin.
	Chase says, the UK government has unfortunately set the precedent that rioting is a legitimate form of protest.
	It seems to be one of the few things they actually listen to.
	If the Black Lives Matter riots, if the Leeds riots, if the Manchester riots... Lester, with the battles between Muslims and Hindus as well?
	The one thing that they really actually respond to is a show of force, which is a really silly thing to admit to everyone in this country.
	It's a really bloody silly thing.
	But if you're going to suppress the discourse and say, well, you're just not allowed to talk about those things, well, then people will feel that they have no other recourse.
	There's only one other way of dealing with things.
	Absolutely foolish.
	I wonder, all these people are getting so angry.
	These are the worst people ever, the rioters.
	These are the worst of the worst of the worst.
	I'd be interested to go back and see their tweets with regards to Antifa in Portland.
	I know that's a different country, of course, but that kind of thing.
	Were they as angered then about the worst of the worst people?
	But it's not about hypocrisy, it's about hierarchy.
	They always just want to put their political enemies at the bottom as deplorables, etc, and nothing they do is morally permissible.
	Everything that other communities do is always punching up and therefore justified.
	JJHW makes a good point.
	To be fair, the police forces are local and basically autonomous.
	So, for example, the Rotherham and Rochdale police forces won't have a lot to do with the Southport police force.
	But it's all the same uniform, and it's people, and they're all operating from, they're all seen from the same hymn sheet.
	So I can understand why people view the police as a monolith, even though they're not, just to be clear.
	But that is something that, again, it's none of this has happened in isolation.
	There were cover-ups.
	This has been a consistent problem.
	And also everyone now knows that Raiku and the unit in the Home Office that does controlled spontaneity events to constantly tell you don't look back in anger and pass your moms out to the site of London Bridge and that we know we're being gaslit with our own money.
	So are you shocked why people react in such a way?
	I hate to say it but I think we're out of time.
	Yes we are.
	Oh we're back in half an hour with Thomson Talks.
	Andrew, thank you very much for being a guest.
	Would you like to remind people where they can find you?
	Heretic's YouTube channel, get me on X as well.
	I've got a book out, The Psychology of Secrets, there it is, about a lot of this.
	Authoritarianism, suppression, cultishness and some weird, strange stuff.
	So that's where to find me.
	Excellent.
	Thank you very much for coming in, sir.
	Otherwise, we'll be back tomorrow at one o'clock.

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