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July 8, 2024 - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters

01:30:24

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #951

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	Hello and welcome to Podcast for the Loaders Eaters episode 951 on the 8th of July 2024.
	I am joined by Josh.
	Hello.
	And Calvin.
	Who's not here yet.
	Who isn't here, yes, but he will be here.
	He's just, I don't know what he's doing.
	Is he pressing loaves or something?
	I think what's happening is Keir Starmer has been in office for only a few days and he's already made the trains not run on time.
	Oh I see yes it could be that yes or tending to the knee I don't know but um he will be here we are promised at some point during the uh the first segment a couple of announcements um we didn't get all the video comments on election night and also we kind of need to make more time for our lovely lovely subs uh because you all adore us so much and so therefore the third segment today is going to be all about you guys we do the video comments that we missed um and if you get your comments in we try and do a lot more of those
	I'm hearing that Calvin might have arrived.
	Oh, here we go!
	Look at that!
	Wow.
	Right.
	Brace yourselves, ladies and gentlemen.
	Just in the nick of time.
	Cameras are being enabled.
	Calvin is seating.
	That's the most dramatic timing possible there.
	Hello, hello.
	How are we doing, chaps?
	Very well indeed, sir.
	How are you?
	Glad I could make it.
	Good, good.
	Yes, so, extra video comments.
	We've got some rumble rants that we can stick in as well, but we're going to do both.
	We're going to do rumble rants and we're going to do our lovely subscriber ones.
	And also, apparently, I've got to let you know that the Islander magazine has started going out, but they do it in batches, apparently.
	So some of you will get it and then some more and then some more, whatever, that kind of thing.
	Right.
	I have an announcement before you get going.
	I'm not very well, so please be nice to me.
	I had an emergency dental appointment at the NHS yesterday because I've got a wisdom tooth coming through and I have an infection, so I'm feeling absolutely awful.
	I'm on every painkiller under the sun.
	I'm basically Joe Biden.
	I'm so drugged up.
	Are you going to be ripped out?
	No, actually.
	It's just particularly bad in growing through.
	But we're really short-staffed.
	Karl and Conor are in America.
	Harry's up north somewhere, who knows?
	He's feral.
	And Stelios is getting married.
	To keep the podcast going, I've come in, even though I feel awful.
	But yes, enough moping about myself.
	So you may remember this Zero Seats campaign.
	Obviously, we talked about it a lot, so if you watch Lotus Eaters at all, you probably heard us talking about it.
	So I'm going to talk a little bit about the origin of this.
	This was, of course, started by Dr Nima Parvini that goes by Academic Agent Online, and here's the video that sort of kick-started it, where it was an AI-edited Rishi Sunak.
	talking about how the Conservative Party should be destroyed because they've betrayed this country, which is true, they have.
	Sorry, keep going. - I don't want to throw anything.
	Okay, and that was actually created by...
	Torrin Falb something?
	Yes up here my stream deck is not working it's all going wrong it's like election night all over again but this person right here to give them credit they were the ones that created the video for him so well done to them he also did our election preview teaser video and a whole bunch of other ones actually so yes if you're watching thank you very much that was some great work right there skilled individual mm-hmm so
	Here he is, the man who started the meme, talking to Jacob Rees-Mogg, and in this interview he actually dropped the zero seats to The Conservative leader of the House of Commons, which I think is quite the thing to do, in the interview and did it subtly, so he sort of didn't pick up on it.
	And, um, funnily enough, following this, Jacob Rees-Mogg lost his seat.
	So, maybe it worked a bit like a curse where, you know, he said zero seats and he disappeared, so... Mogg's alright, he's back on CB News tonight, he's okay.
	He's certainly not one of the most egregious Conservatives, I'll give him that.
	No.
	I think the criticism being levelled at him in particular is that he should have put his faith first.
	If he stuck to his faith he would have been more conservative in his policies rather than saying, oh I separate the two, my faith will not dictate how I vote, well it should dictate how you vote mate.
	Well yeah, I think that a lot of the time the Conservatives have been guilty of putting party politics above their own personal principles.
	Above the nation.
	Exactly.
	And I think that that is very short-sighted and part of the reason why they've done so poorly.
	And so this meme has carried on to lots of other outlets.
	They've been talking about zero seats for the Conservatives and it's been great.
	It's been quite a successful thing and I'm glad to see that it's been spreading.
	And of course our election night coverage which I am incredibly proud of and all of our team.
	It was not only great fun but I feel like everyone involved enjoyed it.
	But yes, we went with the theme of zero seats.
	You can see it, oh that's not right, in our coverage here.
	So here it is.
	So it's been pretty important and of course our election stream was the biggest election stream in the UK which, you know, I'm going to take this small moment to brag a little bit.
	Absolutely, barring the BBC.
	They're next.
	Hashtag defund the BBC.
	But yeah, I think we got to about 80,000 live viewers at one point, which is pretty big for, you know, late at night, isn't it?
	Well, and that we didn't have 4.3 billion in funding.
	That's true.
	Channel 4, ITV, GB News, LBC, Talk Radio, we beat them all.
	We didn't have any advertisers, it's all funded from you people at home, so you made this happen.
	Thank you very much.
	But it's not just about bragging for us, it's about the fact that people are fed up of the legacy media.
	The mainstream media is the establishment, they're part of the problem.
	People are awake to that.
	And yeah, so well done for making it happen.
	This couldn't have succeeded as much as it had without you people at home.
	And let's talk a little bit about the results because the Conservatives did not achieve zero seats but This is the lowest number of seats since the formation of the modern Conservative Party in the 1830s at 121.
	So the camera is in the way.
	But they did get zero seats in Wales.
	That's true.
	So if you're Welsh and you said zero seats, it actually came true.
	And Cornwall and Devon.
	That's true.
	Uh, South West Devon was still Conservative.
	Oh, did it?
	Yeah, that's my home constituency.
	Oh, we wore that bit often.
	But, um, yeah, sorry about that.
	Who's your MP, by the way?
	Um, it used to be Gary Streeter, but it was someone, uh, a lady this time that I didn't recognise.
	They let ladies run for Parliament these days!
	Yes, but yes they still lost 251 seats which is massive so it certainly wasn't a good time for them and I thought it'd be good to talk about some of the senior Conservatives that lost their seats so we can gloat a little bit and enjoy it and make the most of what could have been You know better but it's still somewhat of a victory I feel.
	So obviously one of them is former Prime Minister Liz Truss who I think actually people warmed to after she came out of office and started repeating a lot of talking points that we have been saying and she's also been very useful in understanding how the civil service and the sort of Bank of England and all these sorts of unelected bureaucrats get in the way of elected politicians actually doing stuff.
	I mean, given that she's a Tory, I quite like her, but it is a phenomena that when politicians leave office, they always become a lot more sensible.
	To be fair, I've always liked her.
	I don't support her policies.
	I think she's a massive neolib, but I've always liked her.
	The problem is, once she left office, she went more conservative.
	Like, she dropped her neolib policies and went more in line with where the rest of us are, so I think that's populism.
	But it didn't work out for her.
	However, if she'd have remained in office, we might have been in a different position than what we're in right now.
	That's true.
	Nobody wanted Rishi sooner.
	So I have two main criticisms of her.
	I did quite like her sort of economic budget.
	I thought that was actually quite good.
	However, she should have stuck it out.
	I think that stepping down was short-sighted.
	And I also dislike that she comes out of office and then starts saying good things.
	If you can't say what you believe as the Prime Minister, then what office do you need to speak your mind?
	She needed better quality advisors, because there were some of us who saw that Bank of England stitch-up as it was unfolding, and she clearly didn't have anyone who could see it in her team, and therefore she accepted the mainstream media line that it was her fault, and it wasn't.
	It was a stitch-up.
	Yeah, the moment she got rid of Kwasi Kwarteng, her tenure was up.
	She could not back herself once she got rid of the person who was responsible for her economic policies, which was all that she stood for.
	You know, she had the IEA, she had the, uh, who else did she have?
	The TPA, she had all of those neoliberal economic think tanks backing her, giving her great policies, but you're right, she needed political advisors as well, she didn't have the sounds.
	People who actually understood the underlying policy.
	And how, well, how to implement it and when to implement it, not just say, this is what we're doing, and then shake up the system, because the system did not want her in place to begin with, so of course they're going to do everything they could to eject her.
	And the money men have many ways to hurt you.
	Indeed.
	And another person who lost their seat was Penny Mordant.
	Yes!
	I'm glad about this one.
	God, this woman.
	The reason she gets on my nerves so much is because so many conservatives, so many members thought she was an actual conservative.
	They were like, yeah, we need Penny as our leader.
	But this is the woman who wants to trans kids.
	This is the woman who thinks that a trans man is a woman or vice versa, whatever it is.
	She's delusional.
	She's captured because her Is it her twin brother or just a regular brother?
	Is part of the LGBT alphabet spaghetti community?
	So she is not conservative.
	Well her brother came out and said that the conservatives have been the most oppressive to LGBT people in history.
	Oppressed in what way?
	Opposite way, surely.
	What a load of nonsense.
	They've done the most for them of any government in history.
	But it's the alphabet people who are the most oppressive people.
	I feel oppressed by the alphabet people.
	I can't walk down my capital city without being attacked by child mutilation flags.
	Even when I was doing a shop in Tesco, it was just like, this place is a safe space for LGBT people.
	Where's the safe space for Christians?
	Not even the church anymore, especially not in this country.
	Which shop is unsafe for them?
	Well indeed.
	John Lewis had the child mutilation flags.
	Even Mox and Spence had child mutilation flags.
	Tesco had them.
	Sainsbury's famously, which is why Lawrence Fox said he would no longer patronise there.
	Which supermarket is not safe for LGBT people?
	Tell me and I'll shop there!
	Now actually I know her constituency, Portsmouth.
	I think she's Portsmouth North.
	Now Portsmouth...
	I had no doubt that they were going to kick her out because all during Covid that place was a sort of hotbed of revolution.
	It had one of the lowest vaccine uptakes of all of the constituencies and you just saw graffiti everywhere which was anti-regime, say no to the vax, reject it, stuff like that.
	So I was never in any doubt that she was going to go.
	I mean yes, she dresses well, she holds a sword well but that is not criteria.
	She can give a base sounding speech but it's a pretense.
	She's just not conservative, let's be honest.
	Also Gillian Keegan, another person who is gone.
	Thank god, thank the lord!
	She's famous for being the education secretary who swore on air.
	She also oversaw the handling of the reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete scandal where she closed a bunch of schools seemingly needlessly because there was concrete in there that was a bit crumbly which seemed a bit of an overreaction and after kids had lost lots of school time from the Covid times, the lockdowns, it seemed a bit of an overreaction to my mind um but obviously you guys also have gripes with her as well.
	I can't remember who, I was going to say she's one of the worst educated secretaries but it's a low bar you've got what Justin Greening, Nicky Morgan, I don't know which one was the worst one all of them since Michael Gove were awful but I sat on a panel with her back in the days before I was out and out Conservative when I was a bit more moderate And it was me, her and a lefty.
	And she was siding with a lefty on every single thing against me.
	I'm like, what's going on?
	You're supposed to be a Conservative MP.
	Why are you fighting against me?
	We should be on the same page.
	I can't stand people like this.
	Not Conservative at all.
	Just a waste of a seat.
	It's quite remarkable that you managed to lose Chichester.
	Anyone who's ever been to Chichester, it is...
	Distilled middle class, upper middle class.
	I mean, it is a sort of quintessential Tory seat and for years it had been regarded as basically, you know, unlosable for the Tories.
	So for her to manage to lose that is genuinely impressive.
	And in fact, it was Aaron Icecream, wasn't it?
	He went there and Basically spoke to people on the streets and they were just as fed up as it was everywhere else because for a long time this sort of massive immigration being thrown into the big cities where you didn't really tend to notice it that much because you know who goes to big cities apart from people who live there but when it's when it's sort of in your face on the streets of Chichester you know you know that but the people reacted to it
	And she was an education secretary who didn't educate her party on the electoral maths of lockdowns, record taxation, mass immigration, wokeism... She didn't understand her remit.
	She was a minister without a portfolio, essentially.
	Just one of these careerist politicians that would take any ministerial job, doesn't matter what it was, how much she cared about it or knew about it, she would just take the job.
	Well she was a Cameron appointee, so the tide really turned when Cameron came in.
	Because the first thing he did was rig candidate selection.
	So that woke candidates got in.
	So basically anyone who's joined since 2010 has to be suspect and is probably a wokester.
	It was affirmative action.
	Yeah.
	Which should be illegal.
	Well, she also did nothing to curb the indoctrination of children in schools as well in, you know, gender ideology and all of that sort of stuff that goes on.
	But she worked against her government.
	So the government said, look, I mean, to their credit, they said, look, this has got to stop going on in schools and we will issue this guidance so that schools can, because schools were like, well, we're not going to do anything until the government tells us what to do.
	And the government said, okay, you're going to stop transient children.
	As the education secretary, she should have put the guidance out to schools to say, you can stop.
	Here is the guidelines.
	But she didn't.
	She let them get on with it.
	And they push it at a young age.
	I mean, I have to vet... I've got a five-year-old daughter and I have to vet her books when she comes home from school because she'll be given a book and I'll just quickly check it out and it's like, oh, it's a story about my two mummies, right?
	OK, no, we're not reading that.
	Gosh.
	A child has one mother and one father.
	Yeah.
	So, on the topic of questionable things, Liam Fox is gone.
	He's known for being the most scandalous human being ever to have existed, I think.
	Is he?
	Because he's had lots and lots of scandals.
	So he had the best man scandal, where the best man at his wedding attended lots of his meetings as Defence Secretary, as a sort of unofficial advisor, and this wasn't You know, none of the people involved in this were notified of his presence and he was actually there at the majority of his meetings and they were in business together quite a lot of the time and this was... Was this his handler?
	What was going on?
	Well, I think they were just making money together.
	But he was found in breach of the ministerial code.
	And then in 2020, it was revealed that Russian hackers had stolen trade papers from his email account.
	And then they were leaked ahead of the 2019 general election and used by the Labour Party, ironically enough.
	And then in 2022, he was accused of receiving a £20,000 donation from a COVID testing firm, which he then recommended to the government during the pandemic.
	And then in 2023, there was the lobbying scandal where he had been paid £16,000 for just 21 hours work by a lobbying firm, which then he lobbied on behalf of the Prime Minister.
	He's quite fun down the pub, though.
	When I used to work in Westminster, I used to go down the pub with him.
	He's a nice enough guy.
	He'd buy lots of rounds, I imagine.
	Yeah.
	He's a good Brexiteer, but it seems not the most, uh, well, probably one of the least incorrupt.
	Then there is Grant Schapps, which I'm very glad to see go on.
	Obviously, he pushed a lot of the Green agenda and lots of things that he's done.
	He ran a get-rich-quick scheme under the alias Michael Green.
	He got caught editing his own Wikipedia page to make himself look better.
	He cut his own holiday short with his own COVID travel restrictions and then had to force himself to go into quarantine because he couldn't even adhere to his own rules properly.
	And also, This is one of my favourites I think.
	Taking from Joseph Stalin himself, he photoshopped Boris Johnson out of a picture and if you look closely you can see Boris Johnson's elbow still remained there.
	Oh my gosh.
	That's so embarrassing.
	So you see here, the mouse, oh there we go, there look.
	Ah yes!
	That's Boris Johnson's elbow because he didn't want to be associated with him anymore.
	So when it is politically expedient to distance himself from him.
	So that is actually something that Stalin did, which I think is interesting.
	And then another bad person gone, Theresa Coffey.
	She was known for being one of the rudest conservative MPs.
	And she was accused of having a 184,470 and 97 pence disparity in her expenses between 2022 to 23 and 2023 to 24.
	And she also oversaw the unprecedented sewage pollution scandal in British waterways while she was environment secretary.
	so that is rather unfortunate for her And then another senior person was Johnny Mercer.
	Oh yes, this is the best one.
	Wasn't he... Was he the 77th Brigade guy?
	No, no, no, that's the... No.
	Oh, T, T, T, Thomas... Whatever, we'll get to him, I'm sure.
	Right.
	No, it wasn't him.
	Tobias Elwood.
	Yeah, Tobias Elwood.
	Yes, I thought so.
	He's a right Ukraine guy, though, isn't he?
	Johnny Mercer is the one.
	He's done a lot of good work for Vets too.
	Yeah I know some people in his team, I've got some friends back home because he was an MP for Plymouth which is my home turf and he has done a fair amount for veterans because he was veterans minister and he pushed that and he has been doing a lot for former veterans in the military which I respect at least, that is some good work.
	No.
	He came out to campaign for me once when I was standing as a local candidate and he got there and he's like, oh, you expect me to speak to the people?
	I thought I'd just be giving a speech.
	OK, well, no, we expect you to knock on doors like the rest of us, mate.
	And I don't know what people will make of this, but he did refuse to hand over the names of SAS troops to those who wish to prosecute them for war crimes.
	That was last year, but I suppose he's out of his role now.
	So he's not going to be prosecuted for that.
	The guy I was thinking of was Tobias Elwood.
	Did he keep his seat?
	No.
	Ah, good.
	We've also got, oh, that link's not there, I don't think.
	Oh no, maybe it is.
	There he is, Michael Fabricant, known for the worst wigs in Parliament.
	I like how he owns it though.
	He does, yeah, he can make fun of himself.
	I put that in there for a bit of comic relief.
	And someone I know you spoke about on election night when he actually lost his seat, Steve Baker.
	I asked him to come on here and he said no.
	I can understand why, to be honest.
	We've given him a bit of a hard time.
	But yes, he was a Brexiteer, he played a significant part in Brexit, and he seemed to get caught up in the Tory party machinery, it seems.
	So he gave a post-election interview with Ed Balls, who is the former Shadow Chancellor, and Gideon, who is the former actual Chancellor.
	And he was talking about the collapse of the monetary system, and everything he said was spot on.
	And Ed Balls and Gideon, they just grinned at him.
	They clearly didn't have the first clue what he was talking about.
	So he's actually quite sensible when it comes to monetary stuff, and he sees it.
	But why he went through that weird woke phase, I'll never know.
	I've always liked him, right?
	He was a Spartan, he fought for Brexit, but when he first started going woke, I dropped him a line because I thought, it's better to speak to these people privately than to blast them publicly, in the first instance at least.
	And he said, look, I've got a constituency that's going a certain way, the demographic's changing.
	I was like, yeah, but you do not understand critical race theory is the antithesis of conservative values.
	It goes against everything we believe in.
	Anyway, he adopted that.
	And then he started jumping on the trans stuff too.
	He said, look, you don't understand Calvin, I've got an employee who's trans and this and that.
	I'm like, it doesn't matter.
	The truth is the truth.
	And as a Christian, you should be saying, look, God made us man, God made us female, and he loves us the way we are born.
	And we're not to alter our image in making an idol of ourselves.
	Anyway, the whole thing is just, he bends to the will of the people around him, unfortunately.
	I thought he was a stronger guy than that.
	So, some more honourable mentions is Alex Chalk, the former Justice Secretary, Simon Hart, the Chief Whip of the House of Commons, and Robert Buckland, the MP for this very constituency we're in right now, South Swindon.
	He didn't take them all, did he?
	No, he didn't, he was a bit sore, and he was former Secretary of State for Wales.
	There are also a bunch of notable names that did hold their seats.
	Here's a little graphic that The Telegraph mocked up here.
	So I'm just going to read some of them out.
	Of course, Rishi Sunak held his seat, although it was in question.
	He was worried about this, but I think he threw enough money at it that he got to keep some of his dignity at least.
	True.
	Yes, exactly.
	Priti Patel.
	That's a good one.
	Jeremy Hunt, which I was a bit upset about.
	Ian Duncan-Smith, former Tory party leader.
	Suella Braverman as well.
	Tom Tugendhat, who wants to send everyone to Ukraine.
	James Cleverley, involved in some of the pandemic stuff.
	Oliver Dowden, who I have a personal grudge against for the online harms bill.
	I think that is an awful piece of legislation and yes, he even put in there that he wanted to end online anonymity on the internet just for, you know, bullying and things like that.
	I think it was just a means of the government controlling the internet because it's one area that they can't control.
	That won't affect me because of course my face is out there, but if you work for an employer who is left-wing, which is basically all of them at this point, it just means you can't have a political opinion.
	Well that's exactly it.
	It would mean that many people watching this right now wouldn't be able to engage in the political process because of how employers enforce their policies, really.
	And Kimmy Badenoch stayed in as well, as did Gavin Newsom.
	I hear that Kimmy Badenoch is Gove's creature.
	That's part of the reason why Gove came out, because he's going to be puppeting Kemi from the background.
	Estimate Vestade, Common Sense.
	Yes, that's true.
	Robert Jenrick as well, and Gavin Williamson, not Gavin Newsom, the Governor of California.
	Get my wires crossed.
	Who do you like for Tory leader then?
	I mean, who do you think is going to make it?
	Of those, Suella.
	Yeah, I could see it.
	I hear Jenrick isn't too bad.
	I could see Kemi being popular with the remaining Tories, perhaps, but I imagine they might go in a slightly more left-wing direction.
	Oh, well, it's a safe bet that the Tories will always learn from anything we should have been more left-wing, including this election loss.
	I know.
	Worst in their history, and they'll make the same mistake again, which works for me, to be honest.
	The membership would vote for Suella, Kemi or Pretty.
	I would say so, yeah.
	But the Parliamentary Party will probably avoid either of those.
	But you're right, Gove has an influence there, so maybe Kemmy will be the one that they go with in the end.
	He's sort of a Tory Party kingmaker, isn't he?
	He's been suggested that he's been involved in some of the coups going on internally.
	Absolutely.
	I would not allege that myself.
	I would allege that.
	Michael Gove and Dougie Smith have been heavily involved behind the scenes in all of this, all the coup d'etats and all the stuff that's gone on.
	They can shoulder a lot of the blame for where the party is right now.
	So I wanted to have a quick look at some of the Tories blaming their historic loss.
	Grant Shapps seems to think it was endless political soap opera, which I don't think it was.
	Of course there might have been an element of that.
	Um, in that, you know, they're backstabbing their own leaders, there's constant sleaze and things like that.
	Maybe it's a little bit, but I think one person that did get it right actually was, um, Robert Jenrick and he said, the Tories lost because we failed to deliver.
	They didn't keep their promises to the public, which I think it actually is true because Migration was one of the central issues of this election and they didn't reduce it they actually did the opposite and they paid the price at the ballot and it's actually quite good to see and I think overall although we didn't achieve zero seats and I think Dr Parvini said that anything under 100 seats would be a zero-seats victory.
	121 is still quite a good result, I think.
	Yeah, I don't understand his abstract number of 100.
	Where does that come from?
	I think having less than, what, 139 was their record loss, wasn't it?
	So I think, for me, that class is at zero seats.
	They've had a record defeat.
	That's great.
	Like, either zero seats meaning zero seats, as in they lose all their seats, or zero seats meaning they have a record defeat.
	I don't understand the 100 abstract number at all.
	What do you think, Dan?
	Zero seats, victory, or...?
	I mean, it could have been a lot better, if it weren't for perhaps some aspect that we might be coming to shortly.
	Sure.
	Ooh, foreshadowing.
	But yes, I think the Zero Seats campaign was a lot of fun.
	I enjoyed it.
	It was good to give the Tories a sort of lashing in a political sense for their failures and their broken promises, and I'd like to see the party shrink further.
	Absolutely.
	Right, let's talk about, because I think we need to, Peter Hitchens.
	First of all, is he okay?
	Well, I've been wondering that.
	Because of course we quite like him, especially his early work.
	He's greatly respected.
	The office out there is just littered with his books.
	We've always thought well of the man.
	I used to live in Oxford and I used to see him occasionally.
	We used to get the same train back from London.
	Occasionally we'd walk back together and have decent conversations.
	He seems like a nice enough chap.
	I've only seen him smile once, but he seems like a decent enough bloke.
	What on earth happened on the day he smiled?
	It was actually the launch party for the Michaela movie, the Michaela Community School documentary, and he smiled when he was there.
	Maybe it was the free drinks, I don't know, but that's the only time I've ever seen him smile.
	His once-a-decade allowance for smiles or something?
	My motto was always, never go full Hitchens, because he is the epitome of black pill, isn't he?
	Bleak, despair, and despair is a sin.
	Yes.
	There's always hope.
	But I do appreciate his work.
	Absolutely.
	I recommend this book, The Cameron Delusion.
	The opening few chapters of this is just a blistering tirade against the Conservative Party.
	It is a wonderful denunciation of everything that they are.
	I'm going to have to quote a little bit from this book.
	The Tories had also decided that New Labour's policies were not only dangerous, but desirable, and in fact enviable.
	In their view, New Labour's policies were not only the route back to office, they were good and acceptable policies by which any professional politician would be wise to adopt.
	The Conservative Party, in any case, is just as committed to new labour as a fiercely egalitarian economic and social policy, combined with very high public spending and dependent for its success on excess borrowing.
	It entirely and unshakably supports Britain's membership of the European Union, which means it cedes 80% of its law-making powers and control of the national borders by the way of trade policy and foreign power, by implications it ceases to have any real policies of its own on these topics.
	He's always been great on this stuff.
	He's consistently great.
	Well, he was consistently great.
	He even expressed the whole sentiment of zero seats before Parvini.
	So Parvini basically just picked up Hitchin's idea from this book and just gave a modern spin on it and coined the term zero seats.
	But he has been pushing this for much longer.
	Samson, can you play the video of Hitchens, please?
	And it seems to me that people underestimate hugely the power of the political parties and the need to reform them.
	And they could be reformed.
	I concentrate on the Conservative Party because most people who read me support the Conservative Party.
	And I've dedicated my life in the way that Emil Zola at one stage said that until Dreyfus was free, he wasn't going to write about anything else.
	I can't quite do that because the editor wouldn't approve of it but I genuinely believe that my life's mission is to destroy the Conservative and Unionist Party because if only one could do that we might get a serious Conservative Party which would produce all kinds of changes.
	Now look, imagine two corpses in the later stages of rigor mortis propped against each other.
	Knock one of them away, and the other one falls down.
	Now both the political parties are corpses.
	When I was growing up, they had millions of members.
	People went to their meetings.
	People voted for them enthusiastically.
	Now they're both dead within They have nothing to do.
	If the Conservative Party fell, what would hold the Labour Party together?
	Nothing.
	The Labour Party is harmonious as Yugoslavia.
	They loathe each other.
	They can't stand each other.
	The only thing which keeps them together is the old... It's like an animal farm, when the pigs say, if you don't do this, Jones will come back.
	In the Labour Party, it's, if you don't do this, Thatcher will come back.
	That's the only thing that holds them together.
	The Tories collapse, and they can't say that it's Thatcherism coming back, and they have a more rational, intelligent opposition.
	They haven't got anything either.
	So, you could join me in my project.
	Hmm.
	So Peter, we've been making the case for many years that the uniparty system is just two corpses propped up against each other and when one of them goes down the other one will go down.
	And a lot of us embrace that view.
	The only difference is in 2010 it wasn't possible because the Tories were rising, the Labour Party had sort of failed at that point.
	But in 2024, it was possible to destroy the Tory party to make way for a genuine right-wing party.
	And we understood, as this meme, you know, describes here, you know, the age of managed decline in blue is over and the time of managed decline in red has come.
	This is the first opportunity we've had to put his plan into play.
	Yes, the very first opportunity, yeah.
	On the topic of Lord of the Rings references, I'm not sure you're going to make it, but he is the archetype of Denethor in Lord of the Rings.
	When the time is right to fight and stand your ground and actually stand up for what you believe in, he folded and gave up and abandoned hope and let the enemies in the gates.
	Yeah, so given he'd been advocating this for some years, it came a bit of a surprise when... Oh, my clicker's not working.
	Can we go to the next link?
	There we go.
	So, yeah, it came a bit of a surprise to find that he was...
	Well, he will argue this point.
	He wasn't suggesting anyone vote Tory.
	He was simply suggesting that they don't vote Reform and they don't vote Labour.
	So Lib Dems OK then?
	Well, Lib Dems never came up.
	But I should mention that because he gets very, very upset when people suggest that he... Very upset?
	Yes, when he was suggesting that we were voting Tory.
	He was simply suggesting you should not vote for anyone who isn't Tory. - But the Tories have been doing this forever.
	This is part of what he was talking about, the parties propping them up.
	They've been saying, Tories have been saying, "Don't let Labour get in.
	"You'll have a Corbyn government.
	"Don't vote for Labour." As in, vote for us because we're not the other guy.
	And Labour have been doing the same.
	Don't vote for the Tories 'cause you'll get another Thatcher.
	They have never had a selling point.
	They've never had a reason to vote for them.
	It's always against the other person.
	And so he's just doing the Tory party line.
	Well it is a bit of propaganda really, because it's not inevitable that you have to vote for them, right?
	You can vote for other people, maybe they won't win.
	But that's the point of democracy, right?
	You vote for the people that you want to win.
	If you vote tactically, sure, sometimes it might get results, but also you're sacrificing your principles, you know, the ends justify the means, which is how you get, you know, the Soviet Union.
	So there's been great bafflement on our side with what Peter was coming at, and I think I might have figured some of it out.
	I mean, he will tell us no, of course, but I think I might have figured some of this out.
	He wrote this article, for example, which is rather devoid of an argument, but I picked some bits out of it.
	He was saying, when asked, you know, why were you in favour of zero seats and then you flipped against it, he says, well, in 2010, and for many years before, the problem was this, the Conservative Party was the target of a push.
	The aim of this push was to rip up all remaining Conservative fixtures and fittings of the Tory Party and make it conform to revolutionary changes made in this country by the 1997 Blair-Campbell government.
	Absolutely right.
	The Tory party has become a blue Blairite party.
	He goes on to say, I still believe that had any members of the Conservative commentariat, including those who now follow reform, joined in my attack, Cameron could have been so badly defeated in 2010 that the Tory party would have split and collapsed, making way for a new, properly Conservative formation that would have easily swept aside Gordon Brown at the next election.
	Brown, remember, was isolated, exhausted and deserted by the Blairites.
	So, I mean, what he's trying to say there is that 2010 represented an opportunity because of the way Labour Party was fundamentally weaker.
	So he's like, you didn't join me when I wanted to do it, therefore it's not worth doing that?
	I don't understand.
	What about Ready in 2010?
	I was also 15 years old, so I mean, I can't be blamed for that one.
	The opportunity wasn't as ripe as it was this year.
	And I would go further and say, the Labour Party is still ridden and divided.
	A simple point is, Labour won this election with fewer votes than Corbyn got in either of his two elections.
	So since 2010, the Corbynistas have taken a massive grasp of the Labour Party.
	So the Labour Party is more splintered now than it was in 2010.
	Yeah.
	I can guarantee the Labour Party will fracture.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And in fact, the larger the majority the Labour Party had, the more likely and the quicker it is to fracture.
	But it will.
	I mean, you'll start having all sorts of caucuses.
	I mean, you'll have a Gaza caucus, you'll have a Muslim caucus, you'll have all of these sort of caucuses that start to appear.
	The Trade Unionist Caucus, they will start fighting as well as that strong Corbyn thing because, you know, bluntly, Starmer got fewer votes than Corbyn did.
	Corbyn lost his elections, of course, but because the Tories were so unpopular.
	There's also a lot of bitterness within the Labour Party about how Corbyn was dealt with, because I'm certainly no fan of Jeremy Corbyn, but I do think that some of the things that the Labour Party did to him were a little bit unfair.
	And if, you know, someone as right-wing as I can say that and recognise that in the Labour Party, it sort of begs the question, well, what do the people on the left of the Labour Party think?
	Yes.
	He says, meanwhile, Starmer, unlike Brown in 2010, will not be easy to remove.
	By enfranchising 16-year-olds, and I strongly suspect EU citizens living in this country, an idea he has espoused but claims to have now dropped, he will make himself hard to shift.
	If he succeeds, his plan's constitutional change will make it extraordinarily hard for anyone to undo his actions.
	So, just addressing that, because we're trying to figure out what it is.
	Why has he done this vault face?
	Why has he done it?
	That's not true based on the polling.
	The polling suggests that young people are actually going more towards reform.
	So, I mean, I don't think we will franchise 16-year-olds, but if we did, the results wouldn't be as he's suggesting.
	Yeah, reform are in number one amongst 16s.
	However, of course, he doesn't like reform at all.
	Right.
	Now, I'm coming to why that is, but... Does he dislike reform more than he dislikes the Tories?
	He dislikes anything new.
	So the key line in this entire article, because I was searching it for a killer argument as to why we should be so much more afraid of Labour than we should of the Conservatives, and this is something I tried to... I had a whole conversation with him before the election, and we come to my conversation and your conversation, but I think what's driving it is this one line in the article.
	From what could we now fashion a new conservative movement?
	If we had the will and the opportunity, where is the human material?
	And I think that's the nub of it.
	He basically doesn't credit anyone under the age of 65 as having anything worth saying at all.
	He just doesn't have any faith in the new generation of the right.
	And, I mean, you see this when he's on stage with people.
	I mean, he will be reasonably courteous to people of his own generation.
	But, I mean, he's been very rude about myself, about yourself, everyone else he interacts with.
	I mean, he did that unheard stage thing with Matt Goodwin and called him a child.
	You know, I think, and Peter, if you're watching, Correct me on this.
	Do correct me, which I'm sure you will, and you're welcome to come on the show and put your point of view across.
	And beyond that, you know, you can come in.
	We'll send a car to your house, or we can come to you, or you can do it remote.
	If you want the right of reply, you've got it.
	But I think fundamentally, he just has no faith in the younger Conservative movement, or the younger right-wing movement.
	Sounding cliché, the young conservative movement is the future of the conservative movement.
	In fact, the younger people are now bucking the trend.
	Normally, as people get older, they become more conservative.
	And it's actually the opposite now, isn't it?
	That the young people are more conservative than, say, the baby boomers, and by a significant margin as well.
	And that's true of lots of other European countries as well.
	So it seems to be a movement all across Europe and perhaps North America as well.
	But it seems to certainly be going on.
	Well, it depends what you're trying to conserve and I found this very interesting thread by, not a well-known account, but I think this was a great thread and sort of explains it by Dr. Sine or whatever he is and he put this good thread up and I tried to promote it but it didn't do particularly well where he looked at Hitchens philosophy over time and I just want to pick a few bits out because this for me is kind of gets the closest that I've seen to a genuine explanation of what's going on.
	And his analysis is, the first thing to clear up is that he, Peter Hitchens, has never been particularly animated by the survival of ethnic Britons.
	It is not meant as a criticism of the great man, it is just a statement of fact.
	For all those tearing their hair out, that doesn't seem to be his abiding priority.
	It never was.
	Of far higher value, of supreme importance to Peter Hitchens, has been the unique liberties and institutions locked up within the peculiar evolution of Britain over the centuries.
	He's much more what you'd call a structuralist than a nationalist.
	He intuits that a starmer supermajority will utterly abolish its last vestiges.
	So don't think him a hypocrite when you imagine him portraying principles which he's never actually held.
	His whole destroy the Tories bit was a function of what he was really trying to protect, and now them remaining on parliamentary life support serves the same ends to him.
	Thus, this effect is based on your understanding of Hitchens, while at the same time he doesn't understand you.
	The ignorance is quite bilateral.
	Really, if he does have a failing, it is a woeful lack of comprehension.
	And that kind of rings true for me.
	It's not And the key is, he doesn't so much care about the British people, he cares about Britain, the set of the institutions.
	And we are all coming at it from the point of view of the Britain, the people.
	And that, when I read it, I just thought that explains so much of why we're talking past each other.
	In the original video he said there has to be a new conservative movement to replace the old conservative and in that article he said there has to be some kind of new conservative but you've pointed out he doesn't like anything new so it wasn't about a new movement, it was about a new way to control what the status quo was.
	Exactly and just looking because I've had loads of interactions with him on Twitter, a number of us have, That, just for me, just sounds right.
	He's not trying to preserve us, the people.
	He's not trying to preserve the Britons.
	He's trying to preserve the set of institutions that existed at the time of his youth.
	Which a Birkin Conservative would say we have to protect the institutions, we have to conserve the institutions to the point that they are still fit for purpose to their original objective and when they go off target then we should reform them and or demolish them and that's where we're at.
	Things like the BBC are a good example and the NHS they're no longer fit for purpose therefore we should either reform them or demolish them.
	Because I mean I had a number of exchanges when one of the ones I said to him is look Peter you're not going to convince anybody until you address the the trade-off of immigration and basically explaining you look The reason why we were fearful of the Labour Party was because we didn't want to get swamped with mass immigration.
	Well, if the Tories are doing that to us anyway, it removes the reason as to why we want to keep Labour out, so therefore we might as well destroy the Conservative Party and get something else in its place.
	Absolutely.
	And he just couldn't connect with the point that I was making, and he just shot back some insult along with, I've been talking about mass immigration for years, and he's like, no, no, no, you know I'm not talking about Mass Immigration General I'm talking about the trade-off at this election which I think I might have this further on but again look Peter if if you think I'm wrong I mean you got my email we've corresponded come in or we go to you or you can do a remote link and if you want to correct the record or anything this but
	I genuinely do feel that we've been talking past each other and I am trying genuinely to try and get my head around what your criticism is.
	In fact I can back this up a little bit with my next link.
	Let's see if I can get that.
	Because of course when he was making the argument that You know, vote against the Labour Party, don't vote for anyone.
	Well, of course people will come back and say, well, what if I live in Clacton?
	That surely means I've got to vote for Nigel Farage, because that would be voting against the Labour Party, or otherwise.
	And he comes back with former not-Conservatives, they are right-wing nationalist radicals.
	So therefore it's not voting against Labour at all?
	It's not tactical voting.
	If in Clacton, the Reform Party has the best chance of defeating the Labour Party, and he says don't vote for them because they're not Conservatives, then it's not about voting against Labour.
	Yeah, because Reform does not represent anything that he considers valuable.
	He wants to protect institutions.
	And what he's saying to you there is, first of all, you know, the right-wing nationalist.
	So first of all, he doesn't care for nationalism.
	He doesn't care for Um, the people as such.
	He just doesn't see that as a concern.
	It's the institutions he wants to protect.
	So when he calls a nationalist, i.e.
	irrelevant, and second, radicals, reform are far more likely to come along and put in place new institutions.
	That's the problem though, isn't it?
	Because what conservative, a smart chap like him would see that a right-wing nationalist party is conservative.
	Because they want to conserve the nation, and they want to protect the demographic of the country.
	But I don't... But it's not just the people, it is the idea of the nation too.
	Yes, but I mean, I'm not wedded to the constitutional arrangements, because they've all been so polluted and corrupted.
	I'm quite happy to tear them all down, and start again.
	And my concerns are protecting the people.
	Which is not a concern for him.
	So I think that tweet is very revealing when you break it down.
	Yeah.
	It's all about that conservatism.
	So then we ought to get on to some of the spats that might have cropped up.
	Because it turns out that mild, mild Kelvin here has been incredibly rude to Peter Hitchens.
	He says, replying to somebody else who presumably was defending you.
	As far as I know, I may have missed it, Calvin has not apologised for his extremely rude and factually mistaken of me yesterday.
	Like you, I wish he would, but I cannot forgive him until he does.
	So, Calvin.
	You were extremely rude, weren't you?
	Was I?
	All I said is that you've been speaking about demolishing the Conservative Party for decades, and then at the last hurdle you buckled.
	And that's the word I use, buckled.
	He said that was nasty and extreme.
	I'm like, how is that?
	And first of all, and his responses have been pretty rude, to be fair.
	This is just one of many.
	Well, let's have a look at this extremely rude text of yours.
	Do you want to read it or should I?
	You have spent years telling us that the Conservative Party must be utterly destroyed, that this is the only way to break free from the political malaise, and when we finally got an opportunity to do so, you buckled and backed them.
	Will you be working to dismantle what remains of the Tories in the next election, or are you on board with the Uniparty now?
	I really don't believe that Peter Hitchens has led such a sheltered life that he genuinely believes that that is a rude tweet.
	I mean, it's quite blunt and to the point, which is how I tweet, but I don't think it's rude.
	I don't think that was nasty.
	You could say that to somebody's face.
	He said this was nasty.
	Yes.
	That is the sort of thing that you would say to somebody's face.
	I absolutely would, yeah.
	And that is apparently being described as extremely rude.
	And I forget it was just because I didn't show due reverence.
	Well, you're under 65, so... Right.
	As we've established, he doesn't care for that much.
	Maybe he's just a very devout Confucian.
	That might be it.
	You've really got to respect one's elders above all.
	But I've only replied twice, so I put this out, and then I put that response you've just seen.
	I've only replied twice.
	There's like a dozen tweets that he's tagged me in, and I can't see, or I don't always see them because of the way he does his weird tweeting, but he's gone on a rampage, he's gone on a rant, and he's got really personal ad hominems.
	It's like, how am I the nasty one here?
	Yes.
	Because I dared question.
	Yes.
	How dare I question you?
	Well yes, I mean essentially he's very upset that somebody who isn't Owen Jones has the sheer temerity to speak to him as if they've got something to say on his level.
	Because weirdly he will have conversations with Owen Jones and Aaron Bastani, but for whatever reason he avoids engaging with anyone on the right.
	He won't accept the arguments.
	But if we are going to accept the premise that Peter is allergic to anyone ever being rude, Oh, here we go.
	Actually, there's another one on yours.
	I strongly object to being told untruly that I support or sympathise with the Tories.
	Yes, Peter, you simply engineered a situation where people kind of had to vote for them in order to follow your advice.
	He has a massive influence as well.
	When he writes on the Daily Mail blog, vote against Labour and don't vote for reform or whatever he's saying, he's telling people to vote for the Conservatives, whether he believes it or not.
	And he'll argue against that point, but it's unavoidable.
	Absolutely unavoidable.
	If you're saying, you know, there were three doors, a red door, a yellow door and a blue door.
	Yeah.
	And you must at all costs avoid going through the red door.
	But don't go through the blue door.
	Yes.
	Yes, quite.
	Anyway, so on the point of Peter Hitchens being allergic to being rude in tweets, this is a tweet that he sent me a while back.
	More mucus from King Bingo.
	This is the one that I mentioned earlier about how I said, look, you've got to address the mass immigration issue as it relates to this election.
	And he dodged that.
	So there he is accusing me of mucus.
	Let's go to another one.
	This is the one where he calls me deluded.
	I've got loads of these, by the way.
	What was I saying in this one?
	Whatever it is, you don't understand.
	This is the problem.
	This is the snobby intellectualism of these kind of people.
	You don't understand.
	You can't engage with me.
	You just don't understand.
	Okay, then spell it out.
	What is the problem and how do you see it?
	Make the argument.
	Either you don't understand the workings of the electoral system or you are deluded.
	A large reform vote by people who would normally vote Tory will deliver Keir Starmer and make Ed Davey opposition leader.
	Reform might get one seat.
	Well, OK, let's just dig in on that.
	They didn't get one seat, they got five.
	Well he's not reading the prevailing wind is he?
	Because it was entirely obvious that the Conservatives did not stand a challenge in this election.
	They were obviously going to be decimated and that's why I think a lot of people felt like they could vote reform because they knew that okay well the Conservatives aren't going to form the government anyway.
	I don't even have to vote to keep Labour out because we know we're going to get them anyway so we can vote on our Well, he's making a number of errors there.
	I mean, first of all, like I said, they got five seats, not one.
	And actually, they came second in 98 seats.
	So had he have got on board and used his platform of influence to get on board zero seats, reform could have had anywhere up to 103 seats, and they would be the official opposition.
	And his lifelong dream of destroying the Tory party would be achieved.
	But, as I said above, I think the only thing he would ever want to replace the Conservative Party with is a party that is even more wedded to the conservation of the institutions, not the people.
	Which is a different thing.
	A lot of us thought Labour are going to win, regardless.
	Not that they're going to get a landslide, but the Tories are going to lose.
	So the Tories are going to hand this to Labour.
	Therefore, if Labour are going to get in office anyway, we can send a message to the Tories.
	Well I don't think he's sending a message.
	I would say that.
	Some of us would say it.
	People like him, maybe you would join him in arguing that's sentimental.
	You can't vote sentimentally.
	I think a lot of people in this country have said we're sick and tired of the Conservative government.
	14 years they haven't delivered on immigration, on NHS, on education, on cultural issues, on economic issues.
	Worked towards making this a better country therefore We're no longer going to lend them our vote and so we're gonna vote reform instead and we can because labor are gonna get into power Anyway, and that might be slightly sentimental, but that's how people think I'd only change your framing on that is that I?
	Wouldn't describe it as lending them my vote Because I you know if if what you meant by that is that it's naturally a conservative vote, and I'm taking it away from them I'm saying we yeah, I'm not gonna lend the Tories my vote in this election I'm gonna lend it someone else because they don't own it.
	It's not they're not entitled to my vote Yes, and I think one of the fundamental assumptions that Peter was making is that if reform didn't exist, all of those reform votes would simply go straight to the Conservatives.
	I think most people... I didn't decide until an hour before the vote.
	I was thinking I'm either going to not bother turning up, or if I do turn up I'll spoil my ballot.
	And I'm a natural Conservative voter, I've always voted Conservative.
	So I wasn't going to vote Conservative if Reform weren't there.
	I happened to speak to my Reform local representative who was a Christian and believed in sanctity of life, so I voted for her.
	But if I hadn't voted for her, I wouldn't have voted for the Tories.
	Well you got the polling on this and they found that only 26% of Reform voters would switch back to the Tories if there wasn't a Reform candidate.
	So he's wrong, objectively wrong.
	So I mean certainly in my case there was no way that I was going to vote for the party that locked me down for two years.
	Well I'm never going to vote Conservative ever again, under no circumstances, no matter what they do.
	I just don't trust them.
	I'm happy to say never in this circumstance because the entire apparatus is captured by people that don't mean Britain well.
	I don't trust them at all and I think that many of the Conservatives that sacrifice their principles for the sake of furthering their careers and basically making more money Have got off lightly by losing their seats, to be honest.
	Yeah, given what they did to us over those two years and everything else and all the other crimes they perpetrated.
	But yeah, fundamental misunderstanding on that one.
	What have we got on the next one?
	Oh, this is the one where he's calling me dishonest.
	And what's this one about?
	Oh yeah, this is a follow-up point to another one I think made further on, which is, no, I don't think the Troyes are going to be destroyed in this election, but you need to break the spell.
	The whole thing with zero seats is that you get reform a larger share of the vote, and then the following election they get properly replaced.
	And he was trying to suggest it was dishonest of me.
	I mean, I've read all your bloody books, Peter.
	I know what your argument on this one is.
	So that's why he calls me dishonest.
	What's the next one?
	This country has been stuck in a tribal mentality for so long that we either turn up to... Even if we say up until the moment, yeah, I'll vote UKIP, yeah, I'll vote Brexit, whatever.
	Up until that moment, we turn up in the polling booth, we go, OK, I've always voted Tory, I'm going to vote Tory.
	Or, my family's always voted Labour, I vote Labour.
	And it's a two-party, uni-party system because it's first-past-the-post.
	This is the first election, I feel, where we're breaking that perception.
	Yes.
	And so you're right, in the next one it could be even different because people are starting to say, wait a minute, I don't have to vote for one of those two.
	The other party does have a chance.
	And reform can do the whole Lib Dem trick now of in 98 constituencies saying only reform can win here.
	Which would be true.
	Yes, which would be true, yeah.
	This is the one where he calls me snide and untruthful.
	Don't worry, there's loads of these.
	Why does he always resort to ad hominem?
	I think the reason he does it is because if he can't win the argument on his own grounds, what he wants to do is debate you into saying something unpleasant, at which point he can then immediately claim a moral victory.
	Look at my tweet below.
	Peter, the offer for a courteous face-to-face discussion remains open, but this format is achieving little.
	And all the time I'd been extremely respectful because I've seen him do this so much that I know that he wants to, he wants to bait you.
	So he's a cry bully is what he is.
	Is what?
	He's a cry bully.
	Like he'll get you to say something offensive so he can put, oh, look at this guy.
	It's like, no, you are the problem.
	Yeah.
	Um, so, so what, what else have we got?
	Oh, this is where he calls me pretentious.
	Um, nobody has even voted yet and you are being manipulated by the polls.
	You seem anxious to avoid any responsibility for helping to elect a militant Labour government.
	Well, I didn't vote for them.
	I've never voted for them.
	Um, and in fact, I might just dig into, you know, the point I was making.
	Uh, if I can, here we go.
	So basically, one of the key arguments I had to him Yeah, let's go into this one.
	Because at some point he accused me of being an idiot for not understanding that the SNP were a thing, you know, as an attempt for a new political party to form.
	And I said, well, I am very familiar with the SNP, but let's cast our minds back further.
	Let's go back to the 1910 election.
	So the 1910 election, the Tories were competing against the Whigs.
	The Tories were a very unpopular, in fact, the whole ruling class was unpopular.
	And people voted out the Tories and went to the Whigs and they won this huge majority but it didn't solve the fact that there was this ruling class dissatisfaction and that 1910 Liberal Landslide, or was it 1906?
	1906 Liberal Landslide basically set them up for destruction because they couldn't deliver on anything because they didn't have any answers and by 19, I think it was 1922, the Liberal Party was destroyed.
	Right.
	And so this is the argument I was making to him, and I made this argument to him, and in the post before I was saying, you know, well, you haven't addressed the argument, and at some point he shoots back with, um, I have addressed it, you lost.
	But you didn't address it.
	You never addressed any of these arguments.
	You just continue to... You just throw out these ad hominins in the hope that you can claim a moral victory.
	Well, I've just ignored him now.
	I'll just let him... He's shouting in the wind.
	He keeps... He's still quote-tweeting me as we're on air now.
	It's like, just get on with it, mate.
	If you want to have a little rant, if it makes you feel better, good for you.
	Well, so I mean I put that stuff up about the difference between trying to defend the people and trying to defend a set of institutions because I think that does go to a lot of it.
	I think you've done that in good faith as well and I hope he does come back and have a conversation with you.
	Well and he's, I mean you got my email, we've exchanged emails, you're more than welcome to to come on put your point of view but I'm just genuinely trying to get to why there is this massive schism between people who admire you And what you seem to be saying and I think it boils down to you're trying to preserve institutions not people and that you just don't think that there is any human capital in the under 65s that is worth having and therefore you have no faith in us to build anything new of any value so you know if I'm wrong let me know.
	Got some video comments I believe.
	Yes.
	George Carteret was born into nobility on the Channel Island of Jersey in about 1610.
	His family helped the deposed stewards escape England and was favored upon their restoration.
	Carteret became one of the Lord's proprietor, basically an investor, in half of New Jersey, buying the colony off then-Duke of York James.
	Carteret was also one of the first investors in the Royal Africa Company.
	For this, after the death of George Floyd, his statue on Jersey was defaced with white paint, though at least it wasn't removed.
	I didn't hear about that one actually.
	Greetings from Canada.
	I've not got a camera but I do have an article here that I thought might be of some interest that I've not heard anyone speak on.
	I've seen this one twice already.
	We played this one on the election stream twice.
	So you've got a lot of time for that one.
	Blimey, what is this?
	I think there's a prime minister or former one.
	Yeah, that's a perfect summation of that prime minister grinning from the cut chair at the absolute debasement of Britain as if it's a good thing.
	That pop music.
	I know it was AI generated, but still, it was too close to being real.
	Predictions.
	Traditionally, election nights are all about predicting the outcomes.
	These are the predictions from the Lotus Eaters for reform seats.
	Carl 16, Harry 25, Connor 7, Beau 7, and Josh waffling in at 5 to 10.
	Interested to see who comes in the closest?
	Moving on to other predictions.
	After seeing what happened in France, I wonder if anyone in the studio has any predictions regarding riots?
	Interested in your thoughts there, gents.
	Lastly, do you believe that reform will follow their manifesto or pull a Maloney and cave to those who want to import the populations of other countries to your shores?
	Looking forward to hearing your current predictions.
	07.
	Well, there will be riots in France.
	That's, you know, the sun will rise tomorrow.
	There will be riots in France.
	It's the same thing, isn't it?
	Doesn't take a lot to make the French riot.
	And also, I mean, it's difficult to tell whether reform will enact their manifesto because the next chance they have to be in power is 2029.
	I mean, let's say they do come into 2029, there is a bit of a schism within form, if what I'm hearing is true.
	There's the Tice wing, which is the cuck wing, and then you've got Farage, who is a bit more sensible on this stuff, and Tice wants to sort of go down the neo-lib, well obviously with Ukraine, he wants to go down the sort of social liberalism, he wants to do all of those things because he thinks that If he can do all of that, people will stop calling him racist, stop calling him, you know, anti-whatever, anti-trans or something.
	He's just a Tory.
	Yeah, he is.
	For the record, I predicted six seats for reform, so I think I was quite close.
	Yeah.
	One off, yeah.
	But yeah, Tice is establishment, bless him.
	He's a nice guy, but he's just the Tories from five minutes ago.
	I feel like sometimes I'm a bit too harsh on the guy because he did put a lot of money into the Reform Party and set it up for Nigel and then surrendered the seat to him.
	I don't agree with his politics but at least he did create the infrastructure for Farage to take over.
	Well the infrastructure to get me and Bo booted out anyway.
	That's true, yeah.
	So yeah, bootatice for that.
	Because I said that foreign criminals should be deported, which is now on page 3 of their manifesto after Nigel came back, so... And it wasn't all Tice's money, you know, a lot of people invested in the Brexit Party, which became the Reform Party, a lot of people have, you know, even just £1 people have donated and kept it going for a long time, so... Yeah, and I think there was a redemption arc for Tice, but you have to understand that you are barking up the wrong tree, you are playing the wrong politics, you're playing your enemy's politics and it doesn't work.
	Stop doing it.
	G'day loaders, it is from the Southern Hemisphere.
	Um, this isn't necessarily about election, but if you're heading over to the United States, I'd suggest hitting up the podcast The Drinkin' Bros.
	They're a bit of a political analysis podcast and culture stuff over in Austin, Texas.
	And if you can, I would suggest getting an interview with Christian Craighead, or better known as Obi-Wan Nairobi, a UK Special Forces soldier who's currently trying to live in the United States after some certain UK political book BS.
	Thanks for the chicken bros.
	Did you say?
	Drinking bros.
	Drinking bros.
	Well, thanks for the suggestions, and I hope you managed to escape that printer you're trapped in.
	Just sharing some support and good vibes to Sophie and anybody else who might be battling their own chemical habits.
	I know it's going to be hard.
	It's going to feel like shit.
	It's probably going to feel like it's not even worth it at times, but I promise you it is.
	And I know for a fact you can do it.
	I do believe in you.
	Good luck, you guys.
	It's lovely Ru the Dave in the chat.
	Hello.
	Yes, and a lovely sentiment there as well.
	I very much commend it.
	We have an error message.
	Is Mr Weston crushed?
	He's there.
	I'm curious to know, if reform do end up getting more seats than people have predicted or else hoped for in the case of liberal media and liberal parties in general, How do you think they would try and spin that in their favour, if they can?
	What, the Tories?
	Will they just say that, look, they've only got X number of seats, in this case five?
	So they'd just dismiss them?
	And, you know, ignore them as much as possible?
	This may well be a comment from the actual election livestream, in which case, um, you know, if they did... Yeah.
	So I think that what they probably would have gone for is they would have said, oh, well, this is just a protest vote, and they would have just dismissed it as being not even worth their time.
	They would have said, well, look at their candidates.
	These people aren't proper politicians.
	They're not to be taken seriously and ignored them is what would have happened.
	Question for Alex, BR, LNER.
	I've seen this one, I believe.
	We have, yes?
	Good evening, lads.
	Dispatchers from the Man Cave Part 2.
	I'd just like to raise a glass to the most successful and most viewed and bigliest of the election streams here in the UK.
	Smashing Sky News and Channel 4 out of the water.
	Fantastic to see.
	Yeah, I've been a viewer since the beginning, and Sargon before that.
	So it's lovely to see some old faces back.
	Really, really nice to see.
	And just in case Sargon is watching, Here is some Warhammer, and here is some more.
	Gonna make Carl jealous there.
	Well, Carl is off in America doing his Warhammer tournament, so I think he's even more immersed in it at the moment.
	But no, thank you for the kind words and the support for such a long time.
	I hope you have a nice evening watching us.
	I don't know what the politics of the band of the Prodigy are.
	I assume something to the left wing.
	Working my way through my music collection, I came across their track Narayan, a Sanskrit word meaning son of the primeval man.
	Their songs have a nationalistic bent that cannot be ignored, so I wonder that they must be quite litigious, as it strikes me that they would be a natural fit as an anthem for the Reform Party, perhaps bridging the gap between my 50 years of age and the younger generation.
	To be fair, I heard Prodigy getting radio play not too long ago, which surprised me.
	I think So they're still getting recognition, not necessarily a fan of theirs, but... I mean, they could have a nationalist bent on the basis that absolutely everybody did, including the left wing, until about 20 years ago.
	That's true, yeah.
	You know, walking through Sydney here, and all of these stores have all these high-end goods in them.
	There's clothes, there's jewelry, watches, everything around here.
	But all of these stores are empty.
	Like, nobody's shopping.
	You walk in, you look at the prices on the stuff.
	I can see why nobody could afford this.
	Like, how do these city economies operate like this?
	I really want to know.
	I suppose when the goods are that expensive they need to have fewer customers in order to make a profit.
	Yeah, I know a little bit about this sort of industry and I think that a lot of it is within specific hours and also they'll get customers who come in and buy a lot in bulk and it's very expensive so they actually don't need that many customers and there won't be that many people in there and just having a presence in a shop isn't necessarily that important as well because you know it could
	Potentially be ordered to that the house of the person ordering those sorts of things We've seen this one, it's alright Good evening Lotuseaters, I hope you are all doing well this evening and that the Conservatives will soon be graced with zero seats.
	I would be most grateful if the panel would be able to provide their thoughts, even though it's not related to the election itself, of our former Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, their thoughts regarding his policies, His ideology, which has been the basis of one-nation conservatism, although I believe that the current crop of one-nation conservatives, as they call themselves, don't deserve the title on the basis that they have absolutely nothing in common with his policies and his ideals.
	Yes.
	I can't answer that one, but I know a man who can, and I'm about to do a Brocanomics with Apostolic Majesty on the obituary of the Tory party, and I will ask him...
	about Disraeli.
	So if you watch Brokonomics in a week's time, you'll get your answer.
	Also, the One Nation Tories, as they like to call themselves now, form under the banner of the Tory reform group, and they are the left wing of the party.
	And then on the right, you've got the Conservative Way Forward, who are more conservative on economic stuff, but not necessarily on social stuff.
	And then you've got the CSG, the Common Sense Group, who are more conservative on the social stuff.
	So the Tory party is still splintered from within, but it's only important because this civil war is happening right now, and the TRG, the Tory reform group, the so-called One Nation Tories, are the ones who are vying for power and trying to push the party further left, saying we need to be more centrist in order to win the next election.
	And so we'll see same old mistakes being made, thanks to the One Nationists.
	I mean the One Nation was originally the country gent and the lower orders.
	It doesn't mean what it means now which is basically just wets.
	Yeah it is just a wets.
	I did a running series in my series Contemplations back when it was running where I looked at Victorian values and I talked about some Disraeli quotes with Bo just about how they reflected some of the values of the time in terms of politics and that sort of thing.
	So that might be the place to go for some of my opinions, but I don't know a potted history of that political landscape really.
	Hey Lotus Eaters, just thought I'd give you a little break from the politics talk and show you the old craftsman table saw I've been rebuilding.
	Right here I redesigned and did all the new front panelling, re-machined all these new Stainless steel knobs on my grandfather's lathe and, uh, painted everything all anew.
	Got it all working again.
	Happy treason day, boys.
	That is very cool.
	I have immense respect for people who do this sort of thing in their spare time.
	This is the kind of thing I want to be doing when I eventually, you know, in a million years' time can afford a house.
	Right, right.
	Not in this country, mate.
	Yeah.
	Okay, we got some comments.
	Plenty of comments, in fact.
	Oh, goody.
	We got some general comments.
	Would you like to read those, Dan?
	Go on, then.
	Based biology teacher says, all recovered, lads.
	No, I've got worse.
	Just about, yeah.
	I didn't need recovering, I was having a blast the whole time there.
	I was on the first panel, the last panel, and, you know, hourly in between.
	It was a lot of fun, I really enjoyed that livestream.
	Yes.
	And I was surprised at how we were still going at quarter to six in the morning and managing to give some commentary, although it wasn't quite as lively as when we started.
	Yes, to be fair, the last panel was not as inspired as it could have been.
	You know, we did it.
	Well, we knew that zero seats wasn't gonna happen.
	Yeah, so is that.
	Um, ThatTaxesGirl says, I just want to commend Samson and the other producers for running a tight ship on election stream.
	Really well done.
	Yes, most of the segments had sound.
	It was very good.
	James Hayes says, great job on the election stream lads.
	Now where's my Islander mag?
	It's coming.
	Yes, the printy people are doing the printy thing and the first batch of the posty people have done the posty thing.
	So they are being done in batches for...
	Apparently there's a reason.
	Yeah, apparently there's a reason.
	So you will get it.
	It is coming.
	It's just, you know, happening.
	Grant Gibson says, Dan, I actually laughed out loud somewhat during your segments on the green screen.
	First when you wore a green shirt, then with your Lotus Eats exit pole map, and then many times after that.
	Well, I'm glad I could amuse you, sir.
	Koki Culture says, um, could you all compile all of Dan's green screen clips into one video?
	I think it would be fun to watch together.
	It would.
	Good news.
	It is happening.
	So, I think that is an excellent idea and I will, I will have a word with the, um, the buttons people to do the editing thing and see if we could make that happen.
	That is happening and it's a good thing.
	Yes.
	Uh, Pedro...
	Ferrari says congratulations to Mr. and Mrs. Stelios.
	Yes, congratulations to them.
	Right, some from yours.
	So Stephen Stevens says Reform UK could have won many more votes if they ran candidates in many more constituencies.
	I, for one, had applied to be a PPC but wasn't accepted for one reason or another.
	There were others, I'm sure, but none were on my ballot.
	As a result, I voted for another party that I had reserved.
	A truly exceptional election indeed.
	I think that was just a funding thing wasn't it?
	And it was also very last minute and it caught Reform unaware.
	So I think Reform has got a bit of an issue here with the whole candidates thing because I mean I was a candidate and I knew some of the other candidates.
	Some of them really were the absolute epitome of a paper candidate.
	I mean there was some of them who were just very old and their only interaction with politics was occasionally commenting in a telegraph comment section.
	Now, it's fine all the time that you've got five MPs because it can be driven on the personality of Nigel Farage, but if they want to make the leap now from having a presence to being official opposition, they're going to need some people who can actually understand what's going on, they can play the political game, they understand the issues, they might have some expertise, they're going to need people with CVs.
	And if they don't get that sorted out by next election, well you can't run it on Nigel's personality forever.
	You have got to make that transition.
	Theodore Pinnock says, I think Dr Parvini's threshold of under 100 seats for zero seats victory was simply because dropping from three digits to two digits is a pretty significant threshold.
	It puts you on the same order of magnitude as the Lib Dems.
	And the quotes here, they've dropped so far they're not even three digits anymore.
	It's a pretty striking message whereas above 100 they're still on that level and they don't suffer that PR hammer blow.
	To be fair I think that the Tories did actually suffer a little bit from first past the post.
	I think their percentage of votes and the actual seats they got, there was a little bit of a mismatch there as you get with some of the smaller parties.
	Thomas Howell says, Dan I'm waiting on the I'm waiting for the 12th sorry when the full results are released because I think Helen Dale on the election stream is right and we'll see reform being second to a sizable chunk of the winning MPs.
	We've already seen that.
	I've been looking at some of the constituencies vote counts and actually in a lot of areas where Labour won or the Tories won, reform was still second and I think They were at about 14% of the national vote when I looked this morning, but it'll be interesting to see once we've got more complete data.
	Weren't they projected to get something like 17% or something?
	Yeah, I think there were some projections that were even things like 20.
	No, no, no, I mean on the, of these actual results, I mean I know, I know there's still Plotting together some of the numbers.
	But I thought it was a bit higher than that.
	But yeah, second in 98 seats.
	So there's a strong basis to go for opposition next time.
	Binary Surfer says, Josh gets it.
	You cannot forgive them.
	The party would require a complete reboot before it can be trusted again.
	Vote for them again equals you've now been fooled at least four times even before we talk about Covid.
	Shame on anyone who voted for them.
	Um, Joshua the Jew Hendon reform candidate.
	I did my bit for zero seats in Hendon, the most marginal seat in the country.
	Labour beat the Tories by just 15 votes.
	I came third with over 3,000 votes.
	The Tory candidate was not best pleased.
	Well, well done.
	Yeah he was a decent candidate as well which is unfortunate but that's the game.
	So Chase Bull says I find myself wondering if being in Canada we are ahead of the UK or behind them.
	Our PPC would be the closest to the UK's reform and currently they hold zero seats and are not very popular despite being far more based.
	If Pierre's Conservatives turn out to be a massive flop when they inherited the leadership of the sinking ship That is Trudeau's liberals.
	I can see the PPC resemble reforms rise in the UK.
	Inversely, I could see Pierre learning from the Tories' failures and he would be wise to see it as a warning before he betrays the populace for the globalist vampire hive mind.
	What do we think?
	The globalists will do anything to prevent the Conservatives from getting into power.
	Just look at what's happened in France.
	Paul Hawkins says, so the Apovue vote won then.
	I suppose so, yeah.
	That was a very apathetic response as well.
	Ewan Baker says, and there is still sewage pouring into our sea in Folkestone.
	If ever there was an analogy for the Conservative government, that would be it.
	It is, yeah.
	Chris Rees, my local MP, was Simon Hart.
	I begged him to vote against the vaccine passport, although it had no bearing on Wales.
	I didn't want England to suffer as we did down here.
	Well, thank you very much for that, that's very nice of you.
	He replied with, all the experts say bollocks, so I replied to him vowing to make sure he was never ever elected.
	Job well done!
	It's good to hear.
	Let me know if you want me to move on to your segment.
	Oh, right, yes.
	Binary Surfer, who I'm hoping to get in by the way, says, of Peter Hitchens, extremely rude is a form of pearl clutching when somebody doesn't have an actual argument to counter with.
	Hitchens is ultimately just another person caught in the boomer mindset, disappointing.
	I think there has been a genuine talking past each other with Peter Hitchens.
	He just doesn't understand where we're coming from at all.
	It's not true.
	At some point it's on purpose.
	Because when you don't make an effort to meet in common ground and you just resort to ad hominem instead, it's like you're making a point of it.
	Yes.
	He doesn't want to find common ground with you.
	I think there certainly is something in his psychology where he has spent a lifetime, because of course he was He was a communist, a trot, and he started rising in the media ranks, and then he had his conversion, he started moving to the right, and it's often the case he carried on moving further than a lot of people who started on the right.
	So he spent, you know, best part of whatever it was, 30 years, as being alone.
	And being, you know, somebody apart from everybody else.
	And I think he'd hardened his mental defences when he still had that sort of youthful neuroplasticity.
	He hardened his worldview about being a man apart from the rest.
	And then the internet comes along and he finds out that there's thousands of fans out there who are sort of enthusiastically backing him.
	And it's very jarring for psychology to suddenly have all these supporters.
	And he doesn't like it.
	He's like, no, I want to be.
	I want to be all by myself.
	Yeah, the Hermes mentality.
	Perhaps.
	Yeah, something like that.
	Because it's almost a pathological...
	Contrarianism is some of this stuff.
	You kind of wonder if the day of judgment comes and Satan turns up, whether we'd be on his side.
	It's like that.
	I don't actually want to win because I want to be in opposition.
	It's that mentality isn't it?
	I want to be the lone soldier kind of thing.
	It's quite sad because there are many people who support you, who are on your side.
	You started this movement.
	I mean there are thousands of them.
	This is the thing, so when a number of us first started Responding to him quite positively on Twitter, he wouldn't accept it.
	And, you know, at one point he threw at me, you know, you don't appreciate my work, you never have.
	And I then sent him back a photo of me with an arm full of his books and said, well, look, I've got all your books.
	I think this goes deeper.
	I think this is probably why he follows no one on Twitter.
	The way he interacts with people online mirrors that psychology.
	Oh, he does follow somebody online now.
	Does he?
	Yeah, let's have a look.
	Let me just see if I can find it.
	Um, he follows Rowan Pelling, who is described as writer, dawdler, escapist, eroticist, lifelong barmaid, still listening, editor perspective of the Erotica View.
	Oh?
	Sorry?
	I'm not joking.
	He also follows Peter Hitchens quotes and the real Peter Hitchens.
	So Roy Rowan Pelling gets a... It's a small gripe but it is a gripe.
	The fact that he can't reply in a thread and keep a conversation going.
	He has to always quote tweet.
	It's like he's throwing it out there to his army to jump on board.
	Everything's a pile on.
	Nothing is in good faith.
	Yes.
	I mean, it didn't work when he did it against me, and I suspect it didn't work when he did it against you.
	No, he got ratioed, but it's a shame.
	He got massively ratioed.
	Let's have a good conversation.
	We're all on the same side.
	Well, are we though?
	Well, we should be.
	I mean, are we trying to defend the same things?
	We should be.
	If he's just trying to defend the institutions of the 1950s, that's different to what I want.
	Yeah, I know, yeah.
	Right, let's do some more.
	Lord Nerevar says, Apologies to anyone who's seen me ragging on Peter Hitchens all over Twitter, but I really do feel we should be holding his feet to the fire over this.
	His portrayal verging on that of the Tories themselves.
	He may well have torpedoed zero seats for it if won.
	He needs to get on message or get out the way.
	Well, yeah, I mean, that's why I invited him on, so we could have this conversation, because he has a very strong platform with the over-65s, but very little platform amongst the under-65s, whereas we're kind of the opposite.
	I've seen people, a picture of lots of people, I think at Glastonbury, with Peter Hitchin's t-shirt, so they were young people, you know, you'd be surprised.
	Yeah, I mean, there are a few, but, you know, our audiences generally don't overlap, And as a little, well you can come on here and make a case too, because we are the biggest online broadcaster bar the BBC at this point.
	Which he's always complaining that he never gets invited on.
	But he's been talked to, that was, why should I help you?
	It's like, well, I wasn't trying to get you to help us actually, but never mind.
	Bleach Demon says, Hitchens to me is the embodiment of the boomer mentality on politics, currently and vaguely right-leaning after spending a long time lapping as a socialist.
	Spent decades tearing down institutions that don't suit him, and then when rotten fruits are borne out, loudly beats the drums of preservation.
	I have zero respect for Hitchens in particular, and this power-grasping boomer general mentality.
	Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say he's typical of the boomers, but there is certainly a bit of that that seeps through.
	I mean, actually, his original argument on the Tories, because his argument He evolved a number of times.
	He first started putting it out I think in April that we should we should be voting Tory and his original argument was well I don't want to have to live through a Labour government in the last years of my life.
	Right.
	Now he got dog barred on Twitter for that because it was like the classic boomer take and then he evolved it to well it was possible to destroy the Tories in 2010 but it's no longer possible and people kept pointing out well no it's far far more possible now And then you have the third evolution to it's all about the Constitution and about how if you put Labour in you'll never get them out because 16 year olds are all very left-wing Starmer supporters apparently.
	Which is also not true.
	No.
	Well he's been saying, he was saying you've never listened to me for quite some time I think it's very important to his psychology because he feels like the world has betrayed him really and I think that's why he's so bitter to the world.
	That's the way he said to me, you haven't even read my article, have you?
	I was like, I have, and I quoted a piece from it, because I'm arguing from an educated standpoint, the assumption of ignorance, it's like, you guys have never supported me, you've never read my work, it's like, just, you know, come back to... No, actually, actually, we have supported you, we admire your works.
	Yeah, the expectation of hostility suggests to me that the world has been a bit hostile to him, and he's taken it to heart in a way that is unhealthy.
	This is why the first question I asked is, is he okay?
	Generally, yeah.
	That's the thing I wonder.
	Yeah.
	Mr. Fubel says, my prime disagreement with Peter is on proportional representation.
	It has been his point that it would deliver permanent left-wing weak governments.
	It has just delivered a strong far-left one on 33% of the vote.
	Yeah, so you're going to get a left-wing government either way, but... Yeah, whether we're going to vote our way out of this or not, I don't know.
	The Unbreakable Litany says, Ree Hitchens, how can one claim to be conservative and not just view the people of the UK as its primary institution?
	Quite.
	Grant Gibson, Peter Hitchens seems to have simultaneously a need to be a contrarian and correct.
	He couldn't take the chance on calling on people to vote reform because it was both mainstream on the right and ran the risk of being wrong.
	Now he's on Twitter all weekend pretending we can't look back and see what he was saying earlier.
	Yes.
	Mason Royce says, it turns out that Hitchens was not a political commentator that was ahead of his time, instead he was just a grumpy contrarian that revels being on misunderstood a pariah.
	It makes him feel also intelligent, like he knows some forbidden truth that only his intellect could comprehend.
	Once calling for the extermination of the Tories became a popular rallying cry, his ego demanded he take the opposite position just so he could return to the misunderstood genius that he thinks he is.
	I think that's nail on the head right there.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, well it could be that.
	I mean, or it could be that he's not trying to preserve what we're trying to preserve.
	It's something else.
	It's a set of institutions.
	If you're watching, Peter, come on, let us know.
	Um, Lord Novar says, zero seats failed primarily because of first past the post.
	Scrap it.
	Um... Yeah, I mean, even though on- even though- what was it?
	What was a Frenchist?
	Was a Frenchist in first past the post?
	Don't think so, but I'm split on this.
	No, the parliamentary one.
	I don't think it was, was it?
	I'm not sure.
	If we get rid of First Past the Post, parties like Reform have a greater chance of getting more seats, but also so do the Mohammedans.
	There were five Islamists who got seats and also five Reform candidates who got seats.
	So the people of this country have the same number of MPs representing them as the people of Gaza do?
	Yeah.
	And meanwhile the globalist institutions and the banks have the other 640 MPs.
	I think perhaps having Islamists in Members of Parliament, although it'd be sacrilegious, would also be a bit of a wake-up call when they start chanting Allahu Akbar in a place like that.
	Yeah, you're right, but I think we're already there, but there's so much denial, people won't see it.
	Look at Jess Phillips.
	That's true.
	She keeps saying, there's toxic masculinity, it's because they're men that they're attacking me, not because of their faith, that has nothing to do with it!
	That is so dishonest, isn't it?
	She knows what the real reason is.
	Well, she's been feeding a crocodile for so long now, she can't acknowledge that.
	I don't know.
	I don't know what they understand and what they don't.
	I mean, they could be in the Houses of Parliament with a bomb vest on shouting Allahu Akbar.
	She'd still say, look, it's because he's oppressed and he's from a, I don't know, ethnic minority background.
	They would never say Mohammedanism is a problem.
	Yeah.
	Um, Nicole Spinner says, time to accept he isn't on our side, certainly not worth replying to on X. Yeah, I'm not replying to him on X anymore.
	Like I said, I'll let him scream in the wind and get all the attention he needs from his supporters, but he's not going to get it from mine, I'll just leave him to it.
	Yeah.
	Bless him.
	It's such a shame, such a shame.
	Josh Laverde, head-to-toe in liquid painkillers, OK?
	That's true.
	Says, I think Hitchens is just an arch-contrarian.
	Back in 2010, most of the right-wing supported the Conservatives, so he opposed them.
	Now, he's in a pro-reform UK right-wing echo chamber on Twitter, so he opposes reform UK party to support the Tories.
	Maybe.
	Yes.
	Mr Fibble says I think Peter has been treated somewhat unfairly if I disagree with some of his points people keep waving his destroy the Tory party statement at him as if circumstances don't change and people can't change their minds based on them but what are the circumstances that change like I said I quoted the article early and I've searched that articles I've looked through his other articles I've read a lot of his Twitter stuff I can't see the argument that he's making.
	No, the circumstances have changed, but they're more in favour of his arguments.
	And now he can change his mind, but then he has to be honest about changing his mind, which he hasn't been.
	Maybe it'd be helpful if he stated his underlying assumptions, what he values most dearly.
	Is it the people, or is it the institutions?
	And the thing is, we could sort this argument out in an afternoon if he engaged with good faith, with any of us, but he won't do so.
	He just calls us names in the hope that we'd do it back and then he can claim the victory.
	So, yeah, very sad.
	And I think that's run out of comments.
	We have some honourable mentions quickly.
	Oh God then.
	So, JJHW says, Stanios is getting married and hasn't invited me.
	Sorry to hear that.
	Didn't invite me either.
	Russian garbage human says the 19th anniversary of the 7-7 bombings was yesterday.
	Both Kirstein were in the home office and plenty of other places tweeted 52 lost their lives.
	No, they were murdered.
	Such dishonest framing all over.
	This wasn't an accident.
	Despicable.
	Might make a video comment just on this.
	Do look back in anger.
	I wholeheartedly agree and I think that people who are apologists for terrorists are traitors to this country and have a hand in the murder of those innocent people.
	100%.
	They keep feeding the crocodile.
	They won't address what the issue was on 7-7.
	Just like, we've lost some lives.
	No, we didn't lose lives.
	Mohammedans murdered people in our capital city and that's a problem that's still going on.
	Yeah.
	Well, Dan, it's time to end the show.
	Oh, we got to the end?
	Yes.
	Right.
	Well, thank you very much, Calvin and Josh.
	Thank you.
	And all of you.
	And me!
	Thank you for me as well.
	Cheerio.

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