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May 27, 2024 - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters

01:40:00

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #923

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Time	Text
	Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
	Welcome to the podcast The Loadseaters for Monday, the 27th of May?
	It still may.
	It still may.
	Time is all blurry for me.
	When you get to my age, time just, the borders between days just kind of shimmer and fade into one another.
	You forget what year it is even.
	But I'm joined by Josh and Matt Glamour from The Cathedral.
	Hello.
	Matt, I've heard from the grapevine you are a legendary London nightclub organiser and promoter.
	I was.
	Don't you know who I was?
	I don't know anything about the scene, to be honest.
	But do you want to introduce yourself?
	Hello, my name is Matt or Matthew Glamour.
	I was an integral part of the London underground club scene.
	From the mid-80s onwards, I've had five of the big nightclubs in the kind of cutting edge of different youth movements, from the kind of 80s freak scene through to Acid House, to Britpop, to industrial noisecore, neoclassical, and then into the rebirth of electro in the early noughties.
	I'm also a record producer and an audiovisual artist now.
	Mainly what I do is Audiovisual art, so I make music and visuals.
	So we had a club post the stain, which is what I call COVID.
	We started a club called The Cathedral for dissidents on both the right and the left, what I would say the kind of new right and the old left, in order to facilitate a conversation.
	There's a lot more crossover than you may think.
	And it was very magical, but it's quite difficult to get bums on seats in central London these days.
	I can imagine.
	Yeah, it was more difficult than I had expected.
	So it was a kind of immersive experience, a little bit like your screens here.
	Lots of audio, lots of projections and visuals with live and recorded music.
	And so now it's kind of morphed more into a band.
	So when we play live as the band, The Cathedral, it is kind of happening.
	I mean, really, it's not too far different from what Pink Floyd were doing at the Roundhouse in the 60s or Andy Warhol was doing at the Factory.
	I mean, the experience of the happening hasn't changed that much, really.
	A load of old trippy visuals and loud music, varying degrees of hardness.
	And if people want to follow you, they can follow you at the Cathedral.
	At the Cathedral on YouTube and Twitter, thecathedral.hq and Instagram, thecathedral.h.
	I'm also on Instagram myself, at Glamour, G-L-A-M-O-R-R-E.
	OK.
	And can I do a quick shout out now?
	Go on then.
	I'm going to do a quick shout out.
	So we are a project of creative people and it's quite difficult to find to reach out to find open-minded creative people these days because in certain industries there's a caveat on that isn't it open-minded creative people who don't hate their own countries yes quite patriotic yes creative people who believe in freedom are very you know but they can come from it it's tutti fruity it can go you know all sorts of different people are welcome it's um
	it's actually quite surprising how many there are because just in our office, there are a bunch of musicians Harry's a musician, Rory's a musician, I'm a musician.
	Oh great, well I'm certainly looking for music.
	I'm recording all the time at the moment.
	I record in London and Hastings.
	So, we're going to stop there and get on, because otherwise we'll just be chatting all day.
	Carry on.
	Because I thought we'd talk first about the Conservative Party, because I'm enjoying what's happening, then we're going to talk about how Nigel Farage is finally a racist, then how feminism... Wasn't he always?
	Well...
	We've got him this time, lads.
	Then how feminism has done exactly what it wanted to do.
	And then we're going to have a bit of a discussion about the origins and influence of queer theory in the scene.
	So let's begin.
	Because the Conservative Party is literally a dead party walking, and they all know it.
	Now, there's a lot to get on with with this, but for anyone who doesn't know, a lot of MPs are standing down at this next election, which is on the 4th of July, an Independence Day of some sort, you might think.
	So far it's 80 MPs, but I don't doubt that by tomorrow, and Beau's going to cover this in detail, Uh, but it's some of the most heavy hitters in the Conservative Party that are stepping down.
	I mean, like, just people like Sajid Javid.
	Took my mum to Parliament as an MP one final time.
	I mean, he sounds like a condemned man, doesn't he?
	Yeah.
	Sounds like he's on death row.
	What's your final meal gonna be, Saj?
	You know, just out of interest.
	You know, Andrea Leadsom.
	Just, here's her letter.
	Michael Gove, of all people.
	What, he's off?
	He's going, yeah.
	I was very surprised by this because he was the sort of dark lord behind a lot of the Conservative Party stuff.
	100%.
	How did he do with the blob?
	I think he's a part of it.
	I was going to say, I was always surprised that... He's the nucleus of it.
	Yeah.
	Did he intend to destroy it or just bury himself into the centre of it?
	It's hard to know because in 2003, Michael Gove had a kind of Saul of Tarsus moment on the road to Damascus when it came to Tony Blair.
	He published an article saying, you know, I actually love Tony Blair.
	And then he carried on apparently machinations in the back of the Conservative Party with some kind of WhatsApp group where he would bring together the sort of disaffected members of the Tory party in order to launch attacks on the mainstream of the Tory party.
	And this is what Nadine Doris talks about in her book, The Plot, saying, no, Gove's behind all of this.
	Gove's the problem.
	And so he's finally crated the Tory party to the point where he's losing his own seats.
	It's like, well, if that was the plan, Michael, to sort of... Doesn't it all just get what you wish for?
	I've no idea at this point.
	To quote his Lord and Saviour Tony Blair, you can do a lot more for politics outside of Parliament than you can inside of it.
	I believe Mr Obama thinks the same thing.
	Yeah, there's a lot of that going around actually, isn't there?
	I think that Tony Blair will become the new Chair of the WEF.
	Actually, I think he'll be worryingly more effective than Schwab as well.
	But anyway, so there are also other MPs that you've never heard of, right?
	So Greg Clark, 20 years as an MP for Tunbridge Wells.
	Anyone know where Tunbridge Wells is?
	It's on the way to Hastings.
	That's right.
	It's a small constituency in Kent.
	Not very notable.
	700,000 people, 170,000.
	Lovely train station.
	Yep.
	It's just a nice part of middle England.
	Yeah.
	And these sorts of MPs... It's got the oldest legal firm in the country.
	Oh really?
	Yeah.
	And these are the sorts of MPs who are really going to suffer here, because Greg Clarke is probably like most of them.
	Like, I'm in North Wiltshire.
	I'm just outside of Swindon, so I'm in North Wiltshire.
	And my MP, been the MP for like 15, 20 years.
	Solid Brexiteer, solid social conservative.
	You know, decent, actually, the sort of people you'd rather be running the Conservative Party, but aren't.
	They're the victims of this.
	And I thought we'd just have a quick look at Tunbridge Wells.
	If we go down significantly here, you can see Tunbridge Wells has not really changed all that much.
	And if we just judge the religion for a second, no religion in Christianity is 90% of the constituency.
	As you can see, all other religions are represented in the fractions of percentage.
	This is a 90% English place, so a normal native place.
	Even there, the Conservative Party are losing.
	Even in the most, what you would consider be intransigent place.
	And I say that because Tunbridge Wells has always voted conservative.
	Ever since it was founded in 1974 as a parliamentary constituency, it's always returned a conservative.
	And in this 90% English borough that is 100% conservative voting record, the Conservative Party guys are, well, I'm out.
	We're done.
	It's over.
	That's how unbelievably badly the Conservatives are doing now and how they view themselves.
	Abandon your stations.
	Literally is Denethor.
	Leave your lives!
	We are actually at the point where Denethor is in charge of the Conservative Party.
	And so that's all they've got to do.
	Even in the most Conservative seats.
	They know there's going to be a bloodbath far worse than the 1997 one.
	Yeah.
	Tony Blair.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Beau's going to cover all the details of this tomorrow.
	I'm just giving you a quick overview.
	And so what's interesting is like someone like Jeremy Hunt, who's actually down in the polls in his West Surrey seat, is for some reason going to fight it out to the bitter end, which is bizarre because of all the people I want to lose their seat.
	Jeremy Hunt's pretty high up on the list.
	So, OK, is there a fat bumbling angel that can come in and save the Conservative Party?
	Perhaps tousled blonde hair.
	You said Boris Johnson?
	I hadn't talked about Boris Johnson.
	Is it coming back?
	Can he come back and save the Conservatives?
	He can come back.
	I mean, anyone can make a comeback.
	I've made a few.
	Absolutely.
	And you may remember that literally only four years ago, Boris Johnson was at like 57% in the polls with the Conservatives.
	You remember?
	It's hard to believe now they're at 22%.
	But nope, he ain't gonna do it.
	I'll be out of the country for the majority of the election campaign.
	I'll help from afar.
	Oh really?
	Oh really?
	That's very convenient, isn't it?
	I'm sure he'd be a great help anyway.
	I mean, what's he gonna do?
	Boris is a superb campaigner.
	True.
	And he is, as much as the online commentariat have a problem with Boris, he's still very popular with the average person.
	He is well-loved.
	Even after his success with Brexit?
	Even after all of that.
	He's got a charm that the average person likes.
	They like a friendly aristocrat, basically.
	And that's what Boris comes across as.
	He invokes the sort of Churchillian manner and things like this.
	And this still lingers in the minds of the regular person.
	To coin a phrase, performative.
	I agree.
	I'm not saying it's not.
	It's totally performative.
	Absolutely.
	If there's one man who doesn't have a spine, it's Boris Johnson.
	Couldn't be less like Churchill.
	I totally agree.
	But that's just, that's because we're informed on the issues and we pay attention to politics.
	Whereas the average person who isn't sees the presentation, the performance.
	Yeah.
	And thinks, oh, I do like that, because it taps into the sort of lizard brain of the average British person.
	It's politics by vibe, isn't it, more than anything else?
	100%.
	That's 100%.
	And Conor's right.
	90% of politics is vibe.
	How does the person make you feel?
	Oh, I could go for a beer with him.
	But the only guardian angel I think the Conservative Party could have pulled out is Boris Johnson.
	And he ain't coming.
	Yeah.
	Very interesting.
	Savvy enough to get out of the way, I think.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I think everybody, surely.
	Well, the 80 politicians of socialism.
	Yeah, of course.
	But this is the point.
	After stabbing him in the back, and then there's trust in the back, and installing Rishi Sunak, well, you've got no allies left.
	Who are you going to bring back to save you?
	You don't have anyone.
	And so it's got to the point where, there was a link here that I forgot to put in, even amongst Times newspaper readers, the Times being the premier conservative newspaper in this country, they're losing in that demographic as well.
	22% up the Labour Party among Times readers.
	So that's sort of, you know, Shire... It's odd though, isn't it, to go from one Traitorship to another.
	It's very odd, but there we are, you know, for some reason the British public vote red or blue.
	I can't explain it and neither can anyone else.
	So things are looking pretty rough for the Conservatives, Rishi Senak in particular.
	And so he, for some reason, went to where the Titanic was built.
	To give a press conference or to have an interview with the press?
	Fantastic.
	Let's just watch a bit of this because it's just preposterous.
	Prime Minister, we are just yards away from where the Titanic was built and designed.
	Are you captaining a sinking ship going into this election?
	So if you look at what's happened over the past few weeks alone, you can see that our plan is working.
	Inflation... Okay, I'm not even gonna listen.
	He looks like the cartoon mouse from Ratatouille.
	True.
	Also, he just says the same tripe over and over.
	True.
	It's like, dude, you went to where the Titanic was built in this political context, and it's not surprising the journalists are like, well, are you captaining a sinking ship?
	Yeah, obviously he is.
	Yeah, but I mean, isn't the whole Raise on detra of everything public facing through politics and the media just to troll the public.
	Well, it does look that way, doesn't it?
	Yeah, I think everyone's just being laughed at.
	It does look that way.
	I mean, it's not like Rishi Senek is personally going to suffer in any way.
	no of course not he's a billionaire he's gonna golden parachute out to california probably and just become you know a ceo of a tech company or something like that uh so it's kind of like things are being written by amando ianucci right in the thick of it because yeah when you're having a really terrible campaign the last thing you want to do is go to a place that's known for building a sinking ship uh well It's like he's trying to lose... But it has to be intentional.
	My point is, all of this has to be intentional.
	That's the thing, and that's what I really want to talk about.
	Are they throwing the election?
	Because it really... I mean, I don't know what else you would do if you were trying to throw the election.
	Like, OK, we're going to go to where the Titanic was.
	I guess that if your job is involved with the Conservative Party, It's like, oh, let's just get it over quickly.
	I'm ripping the plaster off.
	But the system, the uni-party system as a whole, is just having fun at the public's expense constantly.
	I mean, the BBC, the entire mainstream media and mainstream life of the country is employed in torturing the captives on this island.
	It's definitely some truth to that.
	Yeah.
	But the thing is, I spoke about this last week because Rishi Senna being out in the rain without an umbrella to call the election, it's like someone made him do that.
	On a really massive podium.
	Yeah, on a massive podium.
	So he looks diminutive and pathetic.
	I'm surprised they didn't give him a crate to stand on or something.
	So he looks diminutive and pathetic calling an election when he's at the lowest ebb and he's soaked to the skin.
	Doesn't have a coat, doesn't have an umbrella.
	It's like someone has made that decision for him.
	I've seen people on that parliamentary podium hold an umbrella before.
	It's not beyond the realm of reason, right?
	Don't you have staff to hold on?
	They've got an entire media room in number 10 that they could have done it from.
	You know, where it's like, you know, wood panelling, high back chair and stuff like that.
	But obviously not.
	So some force in the Conservative Party, in my opinion, is out to humiliate Rishi Sunak, which is fine.
	I don't like Rishi Sunak.
	But it's just very interesting how we keep seeing these very bizarre things.
	But despite reports... Why is he playing along with it?
	I mean, OK, is he in on the gag?
	Exactly.
	Why is he playing along?
	Because the thing is, he doesn't look like he's in on the gag.
	That's, yeah.
	I mean, surely he must... If someone says, oh, I've got a great idea, why don't you go to where the Titanic was built?
	You know, so you would go, hmm, maybe that's not a great idea for me personally.
	I can see why it'd be hilarious for everyone else, but why is it potentially not a good idea for me personally to be humiliated?
	I wish I could answer it.
	Because surely, even once all this is gone and passed and he's having a lavish lifestyle internationally somewhere, people still bring it up and go, eh, eh.
	Remember when?
	So, as a person, you think, well, I probably don't want to have that.
	I mean, I've done some things.
	Well, who hasn't?
	And people, you know, well, of course.
	But, you know, they are often brought up and thrown in my face at inopportune moments.
	Sure, but I never, I never cab to the sinking party in front of the Titanic.
	No.
	No, I mean, fortunately I didn't do it on the news.
	So anyway, there were rumours that he'd be not campaigning after announcing the election.
	This isn't true.
	Apparently he's been limply shaking people's hands around the country.
	He can't help that though.
	Yeah, he can't help that, but it's sad.
	Why don't they do, I'll pay off your mortgage?
	Like he's saying, you know, hello, that would be more successful if he did kind of like a TV show.
	Hey, you've been chosen.
	I'm just going to pay, I'm super rich and I'm going to pay off your mortgage.
	Oh here we go, here's the leading in the Times reader poll, 49% to 26% for voting Conservative vs Labour among Times readers, which again is just staggering, absolutely staggering.
	Even the Lib Dems are up.
	Yeah, even the Lib Dems are up, it's just mad.
	And so, things are looking bad for the Conservatives, and as you say, they need a big, bold gamble.
	They need to be like, OK, we know things suck and we're terrible, but how about we conscript your children and send them to Ukraine to die against Russian guns?
	What about that?
	Are you going to vote for us now?
	It's like, no.
	Weirdly, I'm not in favour of that.
	This is obviously electoral suicide, as well as the fact that it would be an absolutely astronomically terrible idea.
	It's inscription.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, no, no, no, no.
	The thing is, you can see how this has been pitched.
	They're pitching this at the boomer saying, look, we're going to conscript your grandkids and kill them in Ukraine.
	Aren't you up for that?
	Aren't you up for that?
	I'm not fighting this.
	Hasn't there been numerous conscription type plans launched for a kind of national service of a, you know, community service and those kinds of things?
	I don't think anything's ever come to fruition.
	But it has often been posited.
	It has, and so this is what the Conservatives thought they would do, and they've gone full bore on this, which is just kind of mad.
	In fact, what we'll do is we'll watch Rishi's TikTok video about it, because for some reason they put it on TikTok.
	Yeah, watch the video.
	It's kind of interesting.
	TikTok, sorry to be breaking into your usual politics-free feed, but I'm making a video on TikTok politics-free.
	Yeah, I'm mad, but like, who thought this was a good idea?
	Hey, it's great!
	I won't be dying with you.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I'm making a big announcement today and I've been told that a lot of you already have some views on it.
	So, first thing... I'd say.
	No, I'm not sending everyone off to join the army.
	What I am doing is proposing a bold new model of national service for 18 year olds.
	They'll be able to choose to spend 12 months in a full-time military commission, or one weekend per month volunteering in roles within your local community, like delivering prescriptions and food to elderly people, or in search and rescue.
	This will give all young people valuable life skills, make our country more secure, and build a stronger national culture.
	Plus, people will receive best-in-class training in critical skills from cyber to civil engineering and leadership.
	But look, I know a lot of you will have questions on this, so follow the account, put your thoughts in the comments.
	I mean, we could just employ them.
	You spent a long time in Germany as a young man.
	Isn't this very much like the German model that there was where you could choose to spend a time in community service?
	I actually don't know because I lived on an English colony in Germany.
	So we never had anything like that proposed.
	I think there are different countries in Europe that have this kind of model.
	Oh yeah, certainly Israel.
	Yeah, particularly with the community service side of it.
	And on its own, it's not necessarily the worst thing I've ever heard, but it's also just preposterous.
	Because at no point was anyone like, you know what this country needs?
	Community service.
	That'll fix all of our problems.
	Well, that's given us a punishment for crime.
	It's like, oh yes, we've got this exciting new opportunity.
	We're going to treat you like a petty criminal.
	Yeah, punished for the crime of being young in Britain.
	I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, Google searches for the anarchist cookbook went up significantly after he released this because, you know, that's the kind of reaction I would expect from him saying, you're going to be a slave to the government.
	As they're gearing up for more aggression.
	Well, precisely.
	in other different parts of the world um yeah it seems yeah it is a bit i'm not going i'm not sending you off to die really yet yeah quite i mean so and with uh the the numbers in the armed forces dropping So, James Cleverley, I mean, all the Conservatives have come out and defended this, and it's just like, look, this is just hilariously tone deaf.
	Like, no one sat here thinking, God, if only the young people were being conscripted to deliver prescriptions and to wipe old people's bones, then this country would be on the right track.
	That's just not the solution to any of our problems.
	And so them coming out and being like, well it'll help with the fragmentation.
	It just seems a little bit late.
	I mean, these ideas were around, I remember these ideas in the 80s.
	I mean, I remember these ideas every decade.
	When we had a much more homogenous society.
	And in the 80s it kind of, I would have hated it.
	I mean, I would have fled.
	Oh yeah.
	And, you know, done anything I could get to get away from it in my teens.
	I was far too busy at that time in my life having a marvellous time, like I suppose, like teenagers should be.
	Yes.
	But, um, yeah, but as you say, at least back then it would have made It may have helped stem the fragmentation that was already setting in.
	The argument could have been made, well, Britain in the 80s was quite a good country, actually.
	Yeah.
	Oh yes, it was.
	Yeah, I know.
	80s and 90s was a superb country, right up until something happened in 1997.
	There was large-scale homelessness and there was incredible large-scale poverty.
	I'm not saying there weren't problems.
	What I'm saying is the country didn't feel like it was angled towards foreigners and against the native population.
	No.
	It didn't feel like the country hated you.
	I mean, Mrs Thatcher, for all her pros and cons, did seem to like Britain.
	She was very pro-Britain.
	And English.
	She was so pro-English.
	Absolutely.
	And so in the 70s, 80s, and even into the 90s, this could make sense.
	It's like, no, this is a good country.
	It works for you.
	You can expect to have a good future here.
	And therefore, you could be expected to do a year's service or something.
	Okay, fair enough.
	I can hear the argument.
	But I mean, no one can say to young people now, oh, by the way, the future of Britain is looking fantastic.
	And you'll certainly be treated with a great deal of respect.
	So come and do your national service.
	I mean, they're like, well, we're worried about fragmentation in society.
	That's because you let in over a million immigrants a year.
	That's what's causing it.
	It's just the sum of the problem.
	But I mean, that's on top of an already dysfunctional system.
	Sure, sure.
	But the dysfunctional system can be withstood if the society underneath it is cohesive enough and strong enough and... Well, it could be rebuilt, theoretically.
	There's a position for rebuilding.
	Absolutely.
	But while they're currently smashing us with mass immigration... Intentionally.
	Intentionally, yeah.
	They've done this on purpose.
	Just like they're trolling at the Titanic site.
	It does seem that way, doesn't it?
	No, yeah.
	And so, anyway, just to carry on.
	People are like, well, hang on a second.
	If it's mandatory, will they go to prison?
	And Cleverly was like, no, don't be silly.
	Except a bunch of leaked copies.
	Came out saying they would.
	Maybe they'll be deported if they don't do their mandatory service.
	Well, the thing is, it'll be a lot of British people.
	I can't imagine.
	You think?
	What do you think actually?
	Well, as Mr. Trump pointed out in the Bronx, they're building an army.
	That is possible, and it certainly is not something I'm going to rule out.
	But I think that they will... I mean, they seem to be pitching it at the native British.
	They don't seem to be pitching it... Yeah, well, I mean, they can't say, hey, I've got a great idea, come out of your four-star hotel into the barracks.
	Some of the lots are in the barracks already, so all they've got to do is throw on a uniform and start marching, yeah.
	They could argue, well, look, this would be a quick way to citizenship or something like that.
	Of course!
	So they could have pitched it like that.
	Service guarantees citizenship, we've heard that.
	Yeah, absolutely, but surely that's next?
	Quite possibly.
	I can't predict the future, but it would not... We can't predict the future.
	But the point is... It's tempting to try.
	Yeah, and the way that this is framed, it seems to be aimed at the native British teenagers, which I'm sure they're going to be thrilled with.
	And so, uh, this, I mean, they're thinking about going quite hard on this.
	Rishi Sunak is apparently considering banning future applicants from applying to public sector jobs if they don't undertake national service.
	You're not going to be in charge, Rishi.
	I was going to say, is this, is he setting this up for Keir Starmer?
	Yeah.
	So is he just announcing this because Keir Starmer doesn't really want to announce it in his first week?
	Well, that's, and honestly, there is exactly that question.
	Is this some sort of like, political theatre that's going on.
	Absolutely.
	It's all performance.
	We know that they all work for the same people.
	Exactly.
	Is he teeing up Keir Starmer to be able to do this and to take the blow out of it so the negative energy flows onto Rishi?
	Keir's like, well, this is just what we're doing now.
	And so the thing is, I think that might all be the case, but I can't prove it.
	But one thing I do suspect, very strongly, is that the Conservatives have been sat on this for a while because they've seen this kind of polling.
	As in, would you support or oppose compulsory national service for young people?
	42% yes, 34% no.
	And obviously, going through the age groups, 50 and over are much more in support.
	Hooray!
	Get rid of the youngsters.
	Get them off my street corner.
	Get them off my lawn.
	Exactly.
	And so I think they've been sat there, sat on this, being like, OK, things look bad, but we're going to wow them with national service.
	And all the old people, all the 50s and over, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, get those young people out and doing whatever.
	But the thing is, that's just not the issue.
	That's not anything salient in the political landscape at the moment.
	And so this just seems very left-winger, like, you know, out-of-left-field sort of thing.
	So it's like, why are you bringing this up?
	This isn't the source or the solution to any problems.
	And I don't think this is going to significantly shift them in the polls.
	I don't think it's going to get people up voting.
	But again, it's not meant to.
	I think you're absolutely right.
	It's meant to take the heat off.
	It may well be.
	And like I said, I'm just speculating.
	I can't be sure.
	I like that 18-34 year olds are minors 3.
	The people it actually affects aren't so keen.
	It's not exactly appealing is it?
	Being an indentured servant to the state that has taken all your opportunities.
	Funny that.
	The thing is I don't really care about 18 year old opinions anyway.
	It is their lives.
	If 34 isn't an 18-year-old, there's a large gap.
	That would include me, yeah.
	It's not teenagers, is it?
	It's all younger people.
	That is true, but they're only saying 18-year-olds.
	Oh, is that what that says?
	Oh, sorry.
	It's just one poll.
	Oh, so it's not 25 year olds are going to be pulled out of their jobs and pushed into the barracks.
	Oh, that's a shame.
	Yeah, not yet.
	That would have got a bit of a pushback.
	When they officially declare the war with Russia, maybe it will be.
	Yeah, at the moment it's not.
	And so, I mean, OK, I think that's mad and tone deaf and won't go over well with the electorate generally.
	And so did the military.
	The military are like, what?
	Where has this come from?
	Bonkers, says one military chief.
	What they need, in fact, quote, I'm delighted if more young people become more aware of defence and are involved, but this idea is basically bonkers, Lord West said.
	We need to spend more on defence and by doing what he's suggesting, money will be sucked out of defence.
	And that's literally Labour's only objection to this.
	When Keir Starmer was asked about it, he was like, well, this is just a waste of £2.5 billion.
	Really, Keir?
	It's not the state conscripting all of your children to go into the wars in Ukraine or in Israel or wherever else?
	That's not the issue?
	Can you imagine a whole influx of modern teenagers into the diminishing army or armed forces of this?
	But let's start with basic behaviour.
	Yes.
	Because not all of these people are going to be grade A students.
	Attention span, perhaps.
	And not all scholars.
	Yeah, but like being able to pay attention to a certain thing for a certain period of time.
	Difficult enough.
	And put your phones down.
	I said, put your phones down.
	I mean, let's just start there.
	You don't have your phone on during a war zone because they can track your movement using the signals.
	But anyway, Keir Starmer's only criticism of this so far is that it costs too much money.
	When do they care about that?
	A. When do they care about that?
	B. That means that Keir Starmer is definitely on board with the moral philosophy of the state conscripting your children to fight for Ukraine.
	He just thinks it's going to cost too much.
	There are many people in the Labour Party that believe children belong to the state, don't they?
	That's the policies that they support.
	Why would he have any criticism of it whatsoever?
	And of course, just flipping over to the Labour Party very quickly, There's clearly people in the Conservative Party who believe your children belong to this.
	Oh yeah, absolutely.
	100%.
	Else I wouldn't be putting this forward.
	And reform.
	Labour intend to make voting for 16 and 17 year olds viable.
	If you can work, if you can pay tax, if you can serve your armed forces, which you may have to, then you ought to be able to vote.
	It's like, great, you know, that's just something... I mean, I don't think 16 year olds know anything about the country or how it should be run, but then I don't really think 18 year olds know anything about the country or how it should be run either.
	I'd raise the voting age to about 35 and make sure you own property as well, but then what do I know?
	I'm just concerned about the future.
	I'm neither of those things.
	I wouldn't be able to vote.
	I know.
	Based.
	Thanks, Karl.
	Exclude, exclude, exclude.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I want an exclusionary policy when it comes to voting.
	I think there's, you know, coming from nightclubs, they were exclusive.
	All of our clubs were exclusive.
	We had someone on the door for a reason.
	The only good things in life were exclusive.
	Yeah, something that's for everyone.
	Well, I think that, you know, maybe people should be able, if there was some kind of service or at least some civics exam that you could pass.
	I mean, it's very difficult for people to acquire property currently.
	Sure.
	I mean, as things stand, maybe the property requirement is too high, but I think just reaching 35 or something like Sure, but I also think some kind of civics qualification would be useful, so you actually know why Parliament was structured as it is and what that gave us, what that bought us as a civilisation.
	But the reason that Keir Starmer wants 16-year-olds voting is because they're young and ignorant and they don't know anything about anything.
	But they won't want to sign up either or be... They won't do it either.
	The turnout for 16-year-olds will just be minuscule.
	Yeah, it's negligible.
	Anyway, Keir Starmer is something of a Stalinist, and I don't say that lightly or frivolously.
	He seems to actually, I mean, as he says here, I find it easy to be ruthless.
	Okay, have we got some examples of that?
	Yeah, Jeremy Corbyn got absolutely yeeted out of the Labour Party, just completely out now.
	He was stripped of his Labour membership, he's going to stand as an independent.
	And then one Islington Labour councillor was like, well that's a bit far, isn't it?
	And so he was kicked out too!
	I joined Momentum to vote for Jeremy Corbyn.
	Yeah.
	Why not?
	Well, why not?
	I mean, yeah, quite.
	Just because he was oppositional to the Blairite wing.
	Well, that's the thing.
	Like, Corbyn is bonkers and believes nonsense stuff and supports every terrorist.
	At least he believes it.
	Exactly, at least it's a genuine conviction and he kind of centres himself in Britain, like at least he's from here.
	Whereas Keir Starmer's like, oh I love Davos over Westminster, I can't wait to get back there.
	Jeremy Corbyn, like as much as I don't like the things he is and what he stands for, he's at least not like a weird alien in position, you know?
	I mean he's a very nice man, I've met him a couple of times.
	Right, right.
	Sheldon Islington.
	Yeah, yeah, sure, I'm sure personally he is a nice man as well.
	But then the Labour Party in Islington were like, OK, can we democratically elect our own representatives?
	And Keir Starmer's like, no.
	Why would you be able to do that?
	This is Keir Starmer.
	And I really mean this is genuinely echoes of Stalinism, where he ruthlessly purges the Corbynites.
	And so it's looking like Starmer means business.
	And the business is choosing a new Labour anthem because, of course, they can't promise that things can only get better.
	I'm waiting a whole segment for that.
	Just in case you were thinking, OK, I'm going to vote Reform.
	No, Reform are still doing trial by journalist as their official policy for choosing who their candidates are.
	Yeah, that's kind of disappointing.
	It's pathetic.
	On every level.
	Tice always, I mean, he seemed from the very beginning, seemed... He seems very much a part of the Westminster consensus.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And here was a chap who got deselected just out of the blue.
	He got deselected because I guess someone from Hope Not Hate wrote another article.
	What are you going to do?
	And so if you're wondering, well, OK, who am I exactly going to vote for?
	My answer is I don't know.
	You know, I personally want to vote for whoever wears this shirt.
	Right?
	Richard the Lionheart charging into battle.
	That's the person I want to vote for.
	Like some kind of crusading party.
	How long until the hero emerges?
	I don't know.
	But good God, go and check out our merch store and get these shirts because they're awesome.
	That's very slick, Carl.
	I know, I know, it's very good.
	I'm a professional at this.
	But Rory designed these shirts, and they are superb.
	Hurrah!
	So go and check out our merch.
	But by the way, just to finish this off, if you didn't realise, Bridgen, an MP who's kicked out the Conservative Party for being decent, was pointing out that, you know, we're kind of at a war, and we're expecting more of a war, so conscripting people.
	Hmm.
	Interesting.
	And this kind of slipped under the radar as well.
	For some reason, the government was like, have three days worth of tinned food and water, by the way.
	I do that anyway.
	I had such a disaster with my first prepping.
	I was a very keen prepper on my balcony in a flat and yeah, it went hideously wrong.
	I pulled back a tarpaulin, it was just one great big mushroom because everything had broken, water had got in.
	So my first attempt went miserably wrong.
	It looks like the government is expecting emergencies in the future, and this kind of went under the radar because then Rishi Senec was like, we're going to conscript you all.
	So what are you going to do?
	But we'll leave that there.
	Good luck in the future.
	Don't know who you can vote for.
	Go check out our merch.
	I like the merch.
	The merch is fantastic.
	Again, Rory, other people designed it.
	I've done quite a lot of designs with St George.
	Another story.
	Oh, it's fantastic.
	So everyone knows Nigel Farage is racist, right?
	I think it's just general consensus.
	Yeah, I think we've all agreed on it and I thought it'd be nice to look at what he's up to now.
	What racist things has he been saying?
	And here he is.
	Is this the thrust of the reform campaign?
	That actually immigration means that our values are threatened and particularly we are unhappy about Muslims?
	Because that is a pretty incendiary proposition.
	We have never before I've never seen anything like this.
	You think about West Indian immigration into Britain, the post-World War II.
	I think of very little else.
	West Indian immigration into Britain, the post-World War II.
	There were a lot of shared things there.
	Shared history, shared culture, shared religion in many cases.
	Most families that came could say one of their family had served with British forces in World War I, World War II, love of cricket.
	You know, the list goes on, but there were commonalities.
	And, you know, as you know with your previous job, the key to immigration is integration.
	If you get integration, it works.
	What we've done is... And this works on several levels.
	What we've done... I'm going to stop you there and I'm going to say two things.
	Well, here's the difference.
	No, no, I'm going to tell you something about the difference.
	First of all, you're right, I come from that stock.
	But let us remember that my stock, my ancestors, for the best part of seven or eight hundred years, were Muslims until they were forcibly converted to Christians by the CIA.
	How did they become Muslims, Trevor?
	So, when you talk about Muslims as Hostile to British values.
	Let me finish what I'm going to say.
	I don't really see how you arrive at that conclusion.
	And secondly, trying to say to me, you know, actually you guys are not really like these other guys.
	I mean, you and I have known each other a long time.
	Can you imagine how offensive that is to British Muslims?
	How many members?
	How many members?
	Let me ask you.
	You get the idea.
	At this point.
	Right.
	The Snodgy UK have come back.
	Would you like to hear it?
	I mean, I'm reasonably interested.
	Trevor Phillips is just banging on and on and on.
	Can you imagine how offensive that feels?
	How many people from your community fail to speak English?
	How many people?
	From the West Indian community don't speak English.
	We all speak English.
	Well, there we go.
	That was the comeback I was looking for.
	Thank you.
	There we go.
	We all speak English.
	Yes.
	Yes, you do.
	But I mean, it's a start.
	Oh, yeah.
	It's a superb start.
	But this is the point.
	Like, I know Trevor Phillips.
	He's been on TV for many years.
	And I know some of the things that he's said in the past, but I won't spoil anything.
	Don't spoil it.
	Yeah, don't spoil it.
	I was about to bring that up.
	Okay.
	Don't worry.
	Okay.
	No spoilers.
	There's a brass neck on him to ask this.
	Sorry.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I think he might be trying to tee himself up for a redemption perhaps.
	Maybe a return of a certain person that he served?
	A certain Dark Lord?
	It could be.
	A certain name, Anthony something?
	It lives.
	But yes, the media picked up on this.
	Farage really didn't say anything too controversial, even by mainstream media standards.
	If anything, I think he didn't really go far enough, in my opinion, in that he was saying, well, you know, everyone knows people can integrate, can they?
	Sometimes, yeah.
	He is right.
	You can integrate, it just requires an effort of will, a desire to do so.
	Yes, so it's got to be from a place where they actually want to be here for the culture.
	It's not this culture of mercenary sort of... Benefits claimants.
	Yeah, well, most people who are in Britain are here because of our economy.
	They don't care about Britain as a country.
	It's just to make money for themselves, and I mean, I understand that.
	That's close, but I just want to caution against totalising language in the sense that we know, based Muslims, And based blacks and based gays.
	But you know, and I just think with these conversations, it is good, agreed, of course, we have an issue.
	However, it is important to remember that there are patriots and based people who are here because they love this country, all the colours and creeds and various... We don't want to exile friends.
	Yeah, and there are friends and friends listen to this.
	And it's important that those friends hear that we hear and see them and value them.
	Absolutely, and we do make an effort to point this out.
	I'm only bringing it up because, you know, sometimes... No, you're right, you're right.
	And this is why I said that it's got to be an effort of will, as in you have to want it.
	You have to want to live in England as England.
	Or Scotland as Scotland or Wales as Wales, rather than just arriving in an undetermined geographic position because they'll pay your housing benefits.
	There's a case of that Muslim lady that got interviewed by, was it Politics Joe?
	Where she was just like, yeah, I don't want more, you know, more Muslims to come here because then it becomes not Britain and then it becomes bad.
	It's not the country I moved to.
	I bet they were like... And there are many, many people who feel that way.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And Maya Artusi's a great example actually.
	Yeah, Maya's great.
	Because he's like, why are you bringing Islam to the place I fled from Islam?
	Quite.
	Absolutely.
	But the mainstream media obviously picked up on this because they're not one to miss out on this sort of thing.
	So here's a mainstream media journalist, Nigel Farage, just saying it out loud, disgusting.
	What does she work for?
	So that is Jeremy Vine, MyLineTV, Sky News.
	The worst, the worst shit-lib places.
	He's just saying it out loud.
	Disgusting.
	Or based, depending on how you feel about it.
	It's an observation that most of the world understands that, you know, people from other places are different.
	All the replies are like, Captain Mare, what did he say that was factually incorrect?
	Nothing.
	And she's not saying he said anything factually incorrect.
	Well, that's the thing.
	You can't let people get away by saying such and such.
	Are these people seeming to the general public more remote?
	I hope so.
	I don't know.
	It feels to me like this judgment from on high is appearing more and more like a judgment from on high.
	Yeah, the magic sort of incantation seems to be losing its power.
	The magic words are not working.
	I agree, I agree.
	But yeah, saying something's offensive isn't a counter-argument, it's just you're a wuss and get over it.
	Also you're saying, oh it's racist.
	Who cares now?
	That word doesn't hold any power.
	I think we're beyond offence.
	Yes, but anyway, Sky News talked about it, Nigel Farage called out for blanket accusation as he says growing number of Muslims loathe British values, but even in their own headline they don't say it's a blanket accusation.
	It's not a blanket accusation!
	Yeah, growing number is different to blanket accusation, isn't it?
	So yeah, nonsense.
	Guardian obviously, of course.
	Nigel Farage under fire for saying Muslims do not share British values.
	Well, Islam is not a British value, so it's And that's so weird, isn't it?
	It's saying British values are just Muslim values.
	So the values of Muhammad in the 7th century are the same as 21st century British values.
	It doesn't make any sense.
	Also, if you want to practice Islam, Britain's probably not the best place for it.
	Well, I don't know.
	I used to live near the City University in London and there was outdoors praying in the summer.
	15 years ago?
	Yeah, well, it was when it was sunny, admittedly.
	But yeah, you know, so I mean, it was deeply disturbing.
	You know, but would it have been deeply disturbing if I'd seen kind of evangelical Christians waving their arms in the air and singing in the park?
	I don't know.
	Probably would have been preposterous.
	Well, you know, yeah, but it was disturbing to see that.
	And, you know, you see it about public praying things.
	I don't think it was really a part of our culture, the outdoors public praying, unless it was on Christian pilgrimage or something like that.
	No, you never see it here.
	No.
	It's weird.
	Not outside of a church.
	Yeah.
	No, it's weird.
	The Independent got involved as well.
	Of course.
	Nigel Farage condemned for race baiting, of course, the race of Islam.
	But isn't that like a national sport anyway?
	I mean don't, I've done all sides, I mean children, don't tell me that the left don't racegate.
	They would never even think of such a thing.
	Have you taken the knee for George Floyd recently?
	You know, goose and gander.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And a Conservative actually came out with a tepid defence of this, which is surprising.
	The government minister says some British Muslims do not support UK values and she says, so this is Anne-Marie Trevelyan.
	I thought that was how it's pronounced.
	She's a Foreign Office Minister and she said the vast proportion of British Muslims were peace-loving and community-minded people but there was a very small proportion that wanted to challenge the values that we hold dear in the UK.
	But the thing is, we're not saying they're not peace-loving people, what we're saying is they hold values that British people don't hold.
	And that's obviously true because they value their religion and their adherence to the word of the Prophet Muhammad.
	Over and above citizenship, any kind of national citizenship.
	Even if it's not over and above, even if it's equal to or lesser than, it's still a value that the British person doesn't hold.
	Correct.
	So you can't say that's not the case.
	But also within that community, and I've grown up seeing East London, Whitechapel and everything change over the years.
	We used to have a studio in a building in Whitechapel that had an Islamic school underneath part of the building and this recording studio had been there, a group of studios, had been there since the 60s and it was thrown out to become what they call the religious schools?
	The Madrasa.
	The Madrasa, that's right, okay.
	And we were taken to court to be thrown, the people who ran the studio and were yeah thrown out because of course it was haram to be having music and such things in the same building.
	British Valley.
	And so yeah but but my point is that a small group of quite fiery um austere scholars shall we say can have quite a sway in in small ghettoized communities as we may get on to with the kind of queer theory stuff is as you know the kind of my the the the rabid minority yeah the squeaky wheel gets the grease yeah and um certainly when you know there's threat
	Certainly assisted with threat.
	So moving back to Trevor Phillips because he's dabbled in a little bit of this so-called racism himself and here he is saying more or less the same thing.
	Let's be clear about this.
	They say that I'm accusing Muslims of being different.
	Well actually that's true.
	The point is Muslims are different.
	And then he carries on to say, in many ways I think that's admirable, but he is admitting there is a difference there, that there's a difference between British people and... He did an entire show on Channel 4, didn't he, where he was saying... Things we can't say about race.
	I thought that was quite good when he did that, because wasn't he also part of the attack on anybody who thought any different about immigration during the Blair times?
	He was instrumental in that campaign, calling everybody who might have any concern whatsoever about mass immigration a racist, a small-minded racist.
	And that was who was behind that campaign, wasn't it?
	But also, in the 2010s, he definitely changed his position and did that, things we can't say about race, and, like, essentially came to the same conclusion Nigel Farage has.
	So the fact that he's like, well, don't... You've said the same thing, Trevor.
	And in fact, Here is an article in 2016, Muslims are not like us and we should just accept they will never integrate, says former Racial Equalities Chief Trevor Phillips.
	That's in the Daily Mail there.
	Phillips claims that Muslims see the world differently to the rest of us.
	A, that's true and that's fine.
	Well, everyone understands that.
	Muslims will say that about themselves, right?
	That's fair enough.
	Like, you would think so and it would be preposterous if they didn't.
	Like, why would you think that?
	I mean, every country, every culture views the world differently.
	Like, Nietzsche's got a great phrase for it.
	So each culture has its own language of good and evil.
	And that's genuinely what happens.
	So Trevor's not doing anything wrong.
	I'm not saying anything wrong.
	And in 2020 as well he was suspended for being an Islamophobe.
	So they brought up that he had been critical of the Pakistani grooming gangs.
	He criticized Muslims' failure to wear poppies on Remembrance Sundays and he pointed out that they are prominent There's a significant enough number of Muslims in the UK that have reported sympathies towards the Charlie Hebdo attackers, and it is worth mentioning that the suspension was lifted in July of 2021.
	But even so, all of a sudden it's okay to hate Islam again.
	Jeremy Corbyn kicks him out.
	Mm-hmm.
	So I wanted to talk a little bit about Islam more generally because there have been lots of things going on in Britain to do with Islam recently.
	Like there was a report into the Batley Grammar School teacher who basically showed a picture of Muhammad to illustrate what is offensive in Islam and he had to go into hiding.
	He's still in hiding?
	Yes and still is since 2021 I believe and so The review was led by someone who was born in Bradford by Pakistani Muslim parents, Sarah Khan, and apparently, according to the BBC at least, if I scroll down a little bit, it highlighted the protests at the school as a harrowing example and the teacher was a victim of freedom-restricting harassment.
	And yeah, obviously nothing has been done about this, but the Conservatives
	come out with Baroness Worsey saying that the debate has been hijacked by extremists on both sides to fuel a culture war and uh really thanks she's also a Pakistani Muslim by the way so I don't know why she's dictating to the native British what we can and can't say yeah yeah thanks a lot the thing is she was um part of um David Cameron's Conservative Party and okay fine she might be an integrated immigrant so and so and so and so um but like
	If the debate has been hijacked between the two extremist factions to turn it into a culture war, What center ground do you think you're defending?
	Either free speech is a British value, or it is not.
	And these people on the Islamic side say, no, that's not a value we hold.
	You're not allowed to do that.
	And we will threaten the life of this man.
	And on the other side, Baroness Wolsey is like, well, it's an extremist position to think that free speech is a British value.
	So what's the center ground?
	What does she think of herself as defending?
	Well, there's not really a centre ground, is there?
	No, it's either he's allowed to do it or he isn't.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	So, there are also other things as well.
	This is a particularly egregious example of one of the councillors, he was a Labour councillor obviously, who helped cover up the grooming gangs in Rotherham, actually went on to get a senior role as a diversity and inclusion officer in the NHS.
	And he actually refused proposals from police to target these Pakistani largely taxi driving men because they built up a criminal profile on them and he blocked that as well as he made accusations of racism against a fellow Labour councillor which the Times reported was an attempt to deflect attention away from these Pakistani gangs.
	So obviously a horrible man.
	He's doing it to preserve what he sees as his community over what seems to be justice in my mind.
	And it's also worth mentioning that the taxpayer would be paying him a salary like that, this man, which is significantly above the national average, £76,000.
	That's a lot of money in Britain.
	And yeah, I don't know why this person isn't in prison.
	Covering for Pedophiles and rapists.
	Yeah, in my books that should be punishable.
	Tolerance, British Valley.
	I wish it wasn't.
	The report was never released, was it, on the Rotherham?
	Well, the Alexis Jay report was, in 2014.
	Wasn't there another report?
	There have been a few.
	Interestingly, one by Worsey herself, saying, well look, it's not just English girls who are being groomed, there are grooming girls in the Muslim community as well.
	That's bad, isn't it?
	It's not just Rotherham, is it?
	It's cities all over the country.
	Yeah.
	It's funny that a Pakistani Muslim finds her own community innocent.
	She doesn't.
	She said it was guilty.
	Oh, really?
	She said it's not racially targeted because they also target Pakistani Muslim girls.
	Oh, right.
	Fair enough.
	Yeah.
	So here's another article here from 2016.
	Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.
	I mean, this is really the thing, isn't it?
	Okay, well, okay.
	British values is tolerance.
	Half of British Muslims saying we don't think homosexuality should be legal seems to be a contradiction.
	Yeah, I don't think this is something that British people would agree with, right?
	We know it's not!
	Why can't we poll people?
	I mean, I just like to say I know two people who were beaten half to death in East London by Bangladeshi gangs.
	I'm I know one trans person actually who was harangued to suicide in Stabbers.
	Yeah, I mean, when it's your personal, I know girls who have been attacked for wearing immodest clothing.
	Now this is real, it does happen.
	There's serious violence and Prejudice, you know, blatant prejudice against the English people of East London and, you know, gay people and, you know, just being different in any way.
	And it's really not investigated by the police.
	It's almost like no point.
	Acid attacks.
	My mate's club was attacked with an acid attack.
	Didn't have that before though, did we?
	No, it's quite new.
	Yeah, the skinheads just gave you a good kick in.
	I guess you could get somewhat better from that.
	Yeah.
	It's obviously not nice.
	I don't want anyone to be beaten up.
	Yeah, the violence is extreme.
	No, it's not anything that anyone deserves to go through, really.
	It's kind of horrible.
	I don't like even hearing about it, but it is important, of course.
	So there's also the fact that one in four British Muslims believe Hamas committed murder and rape in Israel.
	So three quarters of British Muslims don't think Hamas did anything wrong on October 7th?
	Seems like it, yeah.
	It seems strange to me because, you know, conflict in that part of the world... But they don't believe it actually happened, or that if it did happen it was wrong?
	I don't know.
	I think it's that it simply didn't happen.
	Right, okay, but they literally videoed themselves doing it.
	Well...
	I imagine they probably don't see that, but you also get things like this as well, a quarter of British Muslims sympathise with Charlie Hebdo terrorists, 27% according to a poll, so I wondered, that's a lot of You know, people sympathising with terrorists, right?
	It's about a million people.
	So, based on the 2021 census, it is, as you say, about a million people.
	You appreciate what I was going to say.
	A friend of mine brought something quite interesting up the other day and said, why is it that everybody knows the name of Myra Hindley, yet nobody knows the name of the guy who blew up the Ariana Grande concert in Manchester?
	Great question.
	Yeah, I thought that was interesting.
	Kind of both Manchester-based atrocities.
	Wasn't it four people in the Manchester Arena thing?
	No, it was just this one guy.
	Was it one guy?
	Yeah, one.
	Misremembering, there have been so many terror attacks.
	But what's his name?
	Say his name.
	I can't remember it, yeah.
	Yeah, good point.
	Say their names.
	Who did 7-7?
	Who did London Bridge?
	Say their names.
	Great point, great point.
	We need to look them up, yeah.
	Shouldn't we be remembering their names?
	Well, I remembered what they did it in the name of, so that's, you know, the majority of it.
	I'm just kind of pointing out a contradiction.
	Yeah.
	Abadie.
	Salman Abadie.
	Right, okay.
	I'm getting them all muddled together.
	There are so many There we go.
	And the final thing is, this article from 2014, which was actually referenced by Trump, that more Muslims joined ISIS than have joined the military in the UK.
	I mean, if that's not an indicator of where their allegiances lie, I don't know what is.
	Of course, not all Muslims are joining ISIS, obviously.
	I don't expect that character, sorry I didn't introduce that, to kind of insist on some kind of caveat every time we make a criticism.
	I just do think it's kind of important to reach out to our mates and the friend-enemy distinction as it were.
	I think it is important.
	I've known people, you know, I've had a Muslim housemate who I had a beer with and watched the football with.
	You know, perhaps not the most devout of Muslims if you're drinking a beer, but you know, it was one of those things where... Extreme times make strange bedfellows, as they say, and allyship is important.
	Yeah, so my basic point is that obviously there is a problem with a sizable number of Muslims in the UK that hold values that are counter to those common in the British public.
	And it isn't racist to point it out, also Islam's a religion, and also I think it should be fair for the people who live here to be concerned about their own welfare.
	I think that's a reasonable thing to be concerned about and it shouldn't be shut down by people like that.
	Especially not when they earlier pointed it out.
	Yes.
	Exactly, yeah.
	Trappy bloody hypocrite.
	Anyway, so I thought just a final thing, we'd talk about feminism because we don't talk about feminism actually anymore.
	That went well.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And yeah, this is just kind of a, well, what did you think was going to happen segment?
	Feminism has left middle-aged women like me single, childless and depressed.
	We were taught to prioritise our careers over marriage and now we're paying for it.
	Who taught you that?
	Oh, feminists said, become a feminist.
	Don't get married.
	Don't have kids.
	Be a wage slave your entire life.
	And in your fifties, you're like, hang on a second.
	That's not good.
	I don't like it.
	So I'm just going to read out a few things from this because it's just remarkable.
	She says, I increasingly feel that feminism has failed my generation.
	It has.
	No, no, it hasn't.
	It did exactly what it meant to do.
	Well, it's failed to give them well-being, but obviously it was going to fail.
	But it never promised them well-being!
	It promised them freedom!
	It promised them that they would have it all!
	It didn't say you're going to be happy, it said you're not going to be enthralled to a man.
	It's like, okay, yeah, you're not.
	You're totally free.
	No man wants you because you're in your 50s and you're a girl boss.
	It's like, okay, well then what now?
	You know, this hasn't failed you.
	This is the purpose of feminism and they were never shy about saying it.
	She says, she went to a private school obviously, and she says, we were children of Thatcher and similarly educated out of marriage and distaff pursuits.
	Thatcher was famously not a feminist.
	I know.
	But she was, I guess, a girl boss?
	That's for sure.
	I recall an occasion when Shirley Conrad attempted to upbraid us with the words, Paulinas do not cook, they think.
	This is all very well when you are young and aspire to greatness.
	Shakespeare said, when beggars die, there are no comets seen.
	The heavens themselves blaze forth the death of princes.
	It's like, okay, so your education system is set about defeminizing you.
	Yes.
	And turning you into a kind of simulacrum of a man.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Why would you think this is it letting itself or letting you down when this is what it promised in the first place?
	This was always the goal.
	Well, they might also be realising as well that being a man's not all that, right?
	It's not what feminism told them it was, and actually going out and working a job and earning a wage isn't necessarily You know, the most aspirational thing in the world and perhaps starting a family is actually more fulfilling.
	Well, men only really did go out to work to support their families.
	Exactly.
	We know as well, because men are just underachieving massively now.
	But she says, historically, of course, the feminist argument had valid points, or did it?
	In the old days, when members of my sex were bound first to their fathers and then to their husbands, they undoubtedly led disagreeable lives.
	So did they?
	So if we chart women's happiness over time, How's it looking?
	Oh, it's gone down, since you're not bound to your husbands and your fathers.
	So, why would you say their lives are disagreeable?
	Especially if it was only a very small minority of women who were feminists in the first place.
	So, was it actually that disagreeable?
	Why were women happier then than they are now?
	Why are you writing this article if women were happier then?
	You know, your grandmother wasn't writing that.
	If a woman had a good education, however, she could make a comfortable living and remain independent of male approval.
	Okay, so what was the problem?
	When the desire for marriage and children overwhelmed her, she would almost certainly lose her job and in consequence become tied to her house and compelled to perform a thousand trivial and demeaning tasks unworthy of her ability.
	I have to perform those tasks all the time.
	Exactly.
	God, how many nappies do you think I've changed in my life?
	I've got four kids, man.
	I even have to use a hoover on my floor.
	It's a disgrace.
	I'm a slave to that damn hoover.
	On Saturday mornings...
	I let my wife have a lie-in because she's been stressed all week from the kids and I get up and with the kids we tidy the house up so it's nice and clean when she gets up and so her day can be a bit better.
	It's like oh my god that's unworthy of my ability.
	Very wholesome.
	I think it's kind of ridiculous that it's always framed as if men in the past just expected everything to be done by the woman even though you know even talking to my grandparents who grew up during World War II and things like that No, it was a tit-for-tat sort of thing.
	They sort of figured it out between them.
	Everyone does.
	In the working class communities, a lot of my family were miners in South Wales and the women worked extremely hard having to... as everyone worked.
	There wasn't a choice.
	Nobody was off having the life of Riley.
	The men were down in the pit.
	And the women were at home, you know, whitewashing the doorstep or whatever, well black, sorry, blacking the doorstep, or just trying to, you know, keep the bloody house warm and clean amongst the coal soot.
	My mum's mum was a housewife, obviously my mum's granddad on her side.
	They were from the Rwanda Valleys.
	And so she would tell me, I'd get up at like six in the morning and she'd tell me stories of what it was like in the old days.
	And she'd just tell me how the coal miners all come back at the end of the day and they're all just black as night.
	And so you'd only know which one was yours when he came down the path to the house.
	And I started asking, when I started learning about feminism, I went back and asked her, what happened with money and stuff?
	It's just like, oh, on Friday he'd get paid a little, um, paper slip, uh, paper envelope with the money in.
	And then he'd just hand it to me.
	I'd divvy out everything for the house bills.
	And then I'd give him like two pence or something.
	Yeah, he'd go down to the pub.
	So he could go to the pub that evening.
	And it's like, yeah, she was in control of everything.
	You know, she managed the household.
	The idea that this is just like him patriarchally, you know, no, she gives him his pocket money.
	It's the lie that feminism peddled that this was oppressive rather than just an agreement between two parties.
	There was only middle-class women who could stay at home and a lot of those women also did part-time jobs.
	My grandmother ironed for royalty.
	She was a washerwoman and the mangle in the iron Yeah, well, it's sort of insulting to women of the past as well to suggest that they weren't doing anything important.
	They were just kept at home.
	Completely.
	Yeah.
	Completely demeaning.
	We're not in the Middle East where they can't even be in the same room as men.
	And that also women control basically every social function as well.
	You had lots of clubs that people would go to and women organized all of these things.
	But it doesn't matter because feminists didn't see that.
	They didn't value that at all.
	Anyway, she goes through a bit more and says, well, look, Feminism seems to have changed, and the West seems to have changed, and maybe we've outgrown feminism entirely.
	Where does that leave women like me?
	When I have reached the age of 54, as I have, and her and her friends find themselves single and childless?
	Well, that was the point.
	You wanted out of the contract between the man and the woman, and you gave up all of those things as a proud feminist.
	That's just what happens to feminists.
	She says, 1 in 10 British women in their 50s have never married and live alone, which is neither pleasant nor healthy.
	So turn on the people who betrayed you then.
	Who told you this was a good idea?
	Find those people and be like, you ruined my life.
	Instead of like, well, I mean, guys, I think maybe feminism was failure.
	No, you literally... They embraced it.
	Yeah, exactly.
	They embraced it.
	Yeah, I think you're right.
	I think there was no mystery.
	No.
	To what the outcome would be.
	And Gloria Steinem had been saying, Angela Dworkin... Yeah, Angela Dworkin.
	Andrea Dworkin.
	Andrea Dworkin, that's it.
	They said the most absurd things at the time.
	These are the icons of feminism.
	And it's like, okay, well, I mean, literally Dworkin's like all sex with a man is rape.
	And it's like, okay, mad.
	But I always find that when I hear them bring up childless, because there have been a few cases where sort of feminists have said we were sold a false bill of goods.
	I can't help but feel a little bit sorry for them, even after, you know, everything.
	When they bring up the childless thing, I'm just like, yeah.
	That is sad.
	I know how crushing that can be to an older woman to feel like they don't have children because it's so programmed into them instinctually that it must feel like there's something seriously wrong.
	And becoming the matriarch as a grandmother is incredibly rewarding.
	My mum wasn't particularly family oriented to say the least.
	However, she's now surrounded by a large family who really care for her and that she loves and in a way she's got the reward even though she kind of played the feminist game herself.
	And by chance, in a way, she's ended up in the kind of matriarchal position.
	And I think it's very positive.
	I'm very happy for her.
	It's very positive.
	But that's the thing, isn't it?
	Because she, you know, as women grow older, of course, they get less male attention.
	And so they move into different roles in their lives.
	You might begin as like, you know, a very desirable, attractive young woman.
	Then you move into the sort of mother role.
	And then you move into, like you say, the matriarchal role.
	And these women have been denied that.
	It's a kind of spiritual void here.
	I think that there's a certain vacuum that needs to be filled here of just positing what's positive about growing older as a woman, right?
	It's, you know, having a family and eventually going on to be a grandmother because I know that my grandparents were immensely proud of their family.
	It was the animating principle of their life.
	And to take that away from someone is to destroy them utterly.
	Yeah, I mean, she says that exactly right.
	According to a recent study by the American Medical Institute, loneliness is the leading cause of depression amongst middle-aged females.
	Really, it's not being oppressed by your husband.
	It's not that.
	Or your boss.
	Or your boss.
	But it's just loneliness.
	I should know, as I recently fell prey to the unforgiving war of mental illness, This has taken me to hospital several times after I experienced impulses so dark that friends became concerned.
	On one occasion, I recall a nurse in A&E asking me about my plans to end my life and replying like Keir Starmer's view on women, they were uninformed.
	Okay, so let's return to those valid points that the feminists made then.
	So actually being a part of a family, being the daughter of your father or the wife of your husband, is actually what would stop you from feeling depressed.
	So were the feminist points originally legitimate?
	No.
	You've already debunked them in your own article.
	None of this was legitimate.
	What could have been good for women about this?
	She says, the truth is that much of my depression sprung from a solitary existence that would be eschewed by a race of alley cats.
	I do not know one single woman of my generation who lived such a life and actually likes it.
	Right.
	So there's, again, like 10% of women in their 50s are just like, I haven't got any kids.
	Feminism's completely failed me.
	Well, feminism seems to work well for middle class women in their 20s.
	Yes, it does.
	Very well, actually.
	Yeah.
	Doesn't work so much outside of that, does it?
	No, it seems to be very much aimed at a specific age range, a bath time of a very specific age range.
	There's actually a phenomenon I've noticed, and it's sort of a pet theory of mine, and it's something I've noticed particularly in London, so you might be able to help me out here.
	I've noticed when I've gone to social occasions in London, That there are lots of women in their 30s and 40s that are still behaving as if they're in their 20s and I think that the opportunities available in a very large city, the very population dense and provides a certain amount of anonymity, it gives people the impression that they can remain young forever in a sense and it leads them down a road of
	being misguided, whereas if you live in a sort of small community, it's sort of a clearer pathway to get settled, I suppose.
	I think that's true across the board, with people in general being certainly Generation Xers like myself.
	I think we behave as a generation like teenage, you know, eternal teenagers.
	And I think it's a phenomenon across the board, not just among single women.
	Of course.
	But I think, you know, it's the kind of ab-fab trope with the child trying to be sensible and the parent going off the rails.
	I see it often, I think you're right, it's a phenomena, it's a phenomena of our time that's being facilitated by technology and ease of living and, you know, there are various social reasons for it but it stops as times get harder.
	So young people are having, you know, we talk about the 18 year olds being conscripted It's not much fun being a teenager, I don't think, in the way that perhaps we have fun.
	You know, we might want to extend our teenage years into our elderly years.
	However, I wonder how many teenagers would want to do that with their experience of being young now.
	You know what's interesting is this next bit that she comes on to.
	She says, Recently, after my depression became debilitating, I had a female student living in my home.
	She was 24 and had blue-black hair and skin that seemed lit with the sun's afterglow.
	After a week of apprenticeship, it dawned on me that the notion of not marrying and giving birth before 30 was anathema to her, and like Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane, she wished to dash this cup from her lips.
	In short, she wanted to conduct her life like a woman.
	Isn't that interesting?
	24 year olds just like, well yeah, I'm going to get married and have kids.
	What did you do?
	Oh, I was a feminist.
	And how is that working out for you?
	Are there not movements now where it's being suggested to younger women to have kids young and then go to college and have your career after they've grown up?
	I thought that was becoming a thing.
	I don't know if I'm right about that, but I seem to be more aware that this is advice that is being given to younger women.
	Actually, it's quite good to have kids when you're young and you've got energy.
	And then you can always have a career afterwards.
	I mean, people do, you know, live a longer time these days.
	Well, depending.
	Anywho, yes.
	So I would say that that should be encouraged as advice.
	I totally agree, but I love this, she wanted to conduct her life like a woman.
	What were you doing with your life if not conducting it like a woman?
	What did feminism do to you?
	It turned you into a man.
	Feminism always kind of saw women as faulty men.
	You're not out-competing the men, you're a failure.
	Most men don't out-compete other men.
	Competition is good at a certain level, but also cooperation between men is quite a high priority as well.
	They never compare them to Colin down the pub.
	They compare them to CEO in his jet.
	I think because competition is instinctual for us, we didn't sort of learn its benefits and therefore we know when it has its limitations.
	You're competitive up until the point where it stops being fun or beneficial.
	It's not a sort of animating principle of your life.
	And the men who do become CEOs and world leaders, etc, have an element of kind of psychopathy, in a sense, because you have to dedicate so much time and effort.
	It's your entire life.
	And the women who now do it, the women who run the world, have done the same thing.
	So, of course, they haven't got time for children.
	Well, people working 80 hours a week to run a business, they've not really prioritised their life in a way that's healthy for them.
	I don't, yeah, and I just, I think that this, um, insistence that that kind of success is desirable by everybody is, that's also, that has been a fallacy that's gone on for years.
	Oh, completely.
	And just, she finishes up the article by saying, feminism made the error of telling us to behave and think like men.
	Wasn't an error.
	It wasn't an error at all.
	It was fully baked in from the beginning.
	100%.
	That was exactly what they were selling to you.
	You could live like a man.
	Well, when they're talking about equality, they're equal to what, right?
	Exactly.
	I mean, gender as a social construct goes all the way back to the 19th century, kind of early, early feminism.
	And she says, well, this era was a grave one.
	Women like myself are paying for it, like gamblers in the casino that has been fixed.
	We are not men living the single life with its casual encounters.
	We play for much higher stakes and have more to lose.
	I wish I had not been taught to throw the dice so high.
	Isn't that interesting?
	It's a little bit sad actually.
	It is sad, but I wish we would stop framing it as an, oh this is an accident, this is the failure of feminism.
	No, this was the point of feminism.
	It's what he was trying to do all along.
	Yes, with disrupting nuclear family.
	Yep, 100%.
	What I would say are, I don't know, damaged individuals who promoted this.
	Psychologically, you wouldn't look at the early feminists and go, oh they're healthy, they had a good relationship with their donors.
	Well, yeah, there's a lot to be sort of deciphered by how they communicated themselves, right?
	And the sort of resentment you could see when they're talking about it.
	You don't proposition building something new and something promising for other people with hatred.
	It's a weird way of looking at the world.
	You can be angry about ways you've been wronged, that's sort of separate, but the way they approached it was clearly just resentment towards men, their failure to live up to the expectations that were held for men anyway.
	And so this lady's the victim of that, because it got pumped into her head in school.
	I was going to say, it was in school.
	This was very much... I was one of the last years in school, in my early teens, that had home economics.
	And the boys and the girls did home... I liked home economics.
	I liked making rock cakes.
	I remember being about six years old and baking mint cookies.
	Yeah.
	They were nice.
	I like cookies.
	But also in home economics, there was an economic aspect to it.
	How to, for the girls as they went on, how to run a household budget.
	And as far as I'm aware, that was the only financial education there was in schools and that's kind of completely disappeared.
	I didn't have any.
	I mean, you know, how to get a bank account, how to run and how to not get into debt or what interest rates are.
	Sensible things like that.
	Yeah, how to pay rent, what it means to pay a bill.
	Yeah, all that stuff just I think would be very useful.
	I have no idea.
	I've not been in school for a long time, so I don't know if they teach that in school.
	No, they don't.
	My kids don't do it.
	But home economics, I remember there were classes in managing household budget.
	Yeah.
	The name had changed by the time I was in school because it was called food technology, which is weird.
	But everybody had to become super chefs.
	Yeah.
	So let's round this up with a quick discussion on this.
	What are we looking at here?
	You are, sorry, you are looking at A pamphlet produced by a good friend of mine who was part of the very first wave of queer power activists.
	So this is 91.
	Right.
	This pamphlet was produced for the party, Derek Jarman's party, when he released the film Edward II at Heaven nightclub.
	They had the party where the Pet Shop Boys played at this party.
	And the reason I want to kind of bring this up is because Queer theory has now basically usurped all the other critical theories.
	It is the boss of all the theories.
	And it's really important for people to understand that queer has nothing to do with being homosexual.
	So although the ideas come from the experience of the life of the outsider, as lived by a homosexual throughout modern history, the ultimate outsider, the loathed, the despised, the cast down, what queer theory does is take that experience and try to force everyone into being that outsider and convincing you that society hates you.
	To try and make that the central point.
	Yes.
	On this you'll see that it says that queers can be straight.
	Yeah, it says queer is not about who you fuck.
	Queer is not about how you fuck.
	Queer is not about when you fuck.
	Queer is not about if you fuck.
	Queer is what you fuck.
	Fuck boundaries.
	Gender.
	Fuck lesbian and gay community.
	Fuck labels.
	Right, so it's about literally abolishing the distinctions between Yeah, it's war with, it's war with, total war with normality.
	Yeah.
	Which is what it has become now, it's been weaponised.
	But what I wanted to point out here is this had nothing to do with anarcho-communism.
	Believe it or not.
	Really?
	It sounds like it does.
	So you can see how easily it then fits together.
	But this genuinely had nothing to do with smashing the capitalist... It was anti-consumerist in many ways.
	Because what was happening at this time... I'm anti-consumerist.
	So what you have to understand is at this time we're coming, this is in 91, people are still dying of AIDS a lot, you know.
	There's a dialogue as always going on between America and Britain, New York especially and London, especially the club scenes particular of New York and London are constantly in dialogue during this period.
	And there's a feedback loop.
	American politics is very different to British politics, and we keep inheriting this kind of American anarcho-communism.
	So this is coming, in a sense, from a British point of view of we, at this time, what's also happening in the kind of wonderful years of the 90s, this is early, this is 91, we're beginning to see Corporations merging into these multinational bodies and this is just when they're beginning to shove rainbow flags on everything.
	The rainbow flag really comes into existence in 78-ish, 77, 78, from the hippies in San Francisco.
	It's a hippie thing.
	Right.
	It's not representing it like all everyone did.
	It's actually got more ideology about spirit and love and acceptance.
	It comes very much from the hippie tradition.
	So through the kind of punk and post-punk age of the 80s, We're all like, ew, you know, I don't want to wear some hippie shit.
	Just a quick thing, like, because we're Generation X and any other Gen Xers in the chat will know just how much Generation X hated corporations.
	Yeah.
	Totally cynical about them.
	Yeah.
	Like, if your favourite band got a major record deal, thought they sold out.
	Yeah, sold out.
	Absolutely.
	And that was the thing, you never wanted to be a seller.
	So this is the selling out.
	When the bloody rainbow flag is shoved on everything, it's exactly that dynamic.
	This is a post-punk dynamic.
	That is against consumer culture.
	It's not against the family and what it then goes on to become.
	It is grafted onto anarcho-communism in the 90s in academia.
	So James Lindsay talks about how David Holden, he speaks about who James Dean says, oh, queer theory, you know, what being queer is, is defined in this paper in 95 about the hagiography of Foucault or something.
	No, you know, this is happening on the street.
	Yeah, this is all after the fact.
	You know, this is about a community who have been ostracized to the end.
	Remember that homosexuality is only decriminalized in Scotland in the 80s and in Ireland in like the 90s and so there was an experience of ghettoization.
	This is the ghetto experience experienced by any ostracized group.
	And there was just rules of the ghetto.
	And this emerges as a kind of fury after only being ostracized and beaten up at school.
	I mean, anybody who's been bullied for any reason whatsoever as a child or an adult understands that internalized fury.
	And this is an expression of a fury, the way you've got the standard kind of gay ostracisation, which was very, you know, it was very real.
	And, you know, people are getting beaten to death now by Bangladeshis.
	Where before, you know, it was our own people doing it.
	It's fine.
	But it's very easy to see this as always having been this extreme anarcho-communist Motivation.
	Actually, it's interesting to observe because it's how movements are co-opted, whether it's punk or house music or rock and roll.
	These things are always co-opted by the system.
	Now, you would say that's the evil capitalist system co-opting.
	But actually, our gang of freaks in the London nightclubs in the 80s, Well, capitally, absolutely.
	Boy George wanted to be a big star, be famous.
	In favour of making money?
	Because they were working class people.
	This wasn't a load of middle class art students.
	The pop stars who came, the original gender benders who came out of the 80s, and in fact before that, you know, you had in the early 70s with Bowie.
	And the punk movement, then the kind of goth movement, then you've got the electronic movement.
	You know, Phil Oakey is genderqueer in like 78, 79.
	This is something that I was thinking about the other day actually.
	It's like we've always had this.
	Androgyny in fashion has always been a thing.
	Maybe the full adoption of it signifies the fall of empire or whatever.
	We are the circus people.
	Yeah, I think because when we first met you were saying that there's always been an appropriate place for this.
	Yeah, it is at the margin.
	That is fair.
	But it's always been there and there's always an appropriate placement and we should understand that it has an appropriate place.
	Yes.
	I thought I was really insightful.
	I completely agree.
	It's the place of the jester.
	We are the circus folk.
	We are the funfair folk.
	It's frightening to go to the funfair.
	But that's the point.
	You're stepping out of your normal life and you go and meet a community of people that show you a reflection of reality that is warped.
	that is upside down.
	It's the world of the ghost train and the fun house.
	You don't go on a ghost train and then get surprised that something pops out at you.
	But the jester shouldn't try to overthrow the king.
	That's the point.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	The circus people provide a function of reflecting and refracting society back at itself as a healthy function.
	Probably cathartically.
	Yeah.
	What has happened is those people have been given the keys to the kingdom.
	And why and how?
	Because that doesn't happen by accident.
	Nobody thinks, oh, I've got a good idea.
	That didn't happen by accident.
	I often say that there was a point in the 90s where we're all banging on the doors of society and the regime and consumerism, I would say, rather than capitalism and rah, rah, rah, burn it all down.
	Screaming and shouting, big outfits, using... There's always been also that British tradition of pantomime.
	You can read punk in the tradition of pantomime, where it's a kind of garish opposition to what's perceived as an oppressive government structure.
	And that's a constant interplay.
	So we're banging on the walls, on the doors of the castle, and I'm thinking, ooh, when are we going to get shot with arrows and a hot oil poured on us?
	And in fact, the doors of the castle swung open and there was a banquet laid.
	And I remember that moment very vividly at this time, exactly this time in the early 90s, when those doors were flung open.
	It was absolute vodka that flung the doors open.
	It was Calvin Klein knickers that threw the door open.
	It was a whole load of businesses.
	And I could smell a rat immediately.
	And so could a lot of us.
	And that's what this was in opera.
	This was calling out.
	This was originally A call against the trap.
	But to wake up, you are being trapped.
	Now, they would call it into a heteronormative world.
	People certainly didn't want to be married.
	They didn't want to be trapped into mortgages.
	That is then taken into the academy and it is... Domesticated?
	Yeah, but it becomes what Karlin Borysenko calls gain-of-function Marxism.
	And I think that's a very good...
	It's co-opted, but it has an effect on Marxist theory itself.
	So in the late 90s, I became my work through performance art groups and things I've been involved with throughout the 80s, my clubs and my music.
	I became quoted in PhD theses about queer theory.
	So people would be phoning me up saying, can I come and interview you?
	So I thought I was doing magazine interviews.
	And I'd be doing these interviews and saying, what magazine is this?
	And they'd say, it's for my thesis.
	I didn't really know what that was because I didn't go to college.
	So I was like, what's that?
	And they'd have to explain.
	And oh, what's it about?
	Queer theory.
	And I'd be like, what on earth are you talking about?
	You do that at college.
	I was aware that my work was being used, and the questions were always framed in these ways, that I would say no, that's not what we're doing, no, that's not what it's about.
	So you want to tear down all of heteronormative society?
	Yeah, but also homonormative society.
	Oh yeah, of course.
	Don't forget that this is now, where we are now, is that queer theory is very anti-gay.
	And I mean, I've never, you know, I've never considered myself gay because even as the idea of gayness grew up, it was seen as a consumerist lifestyle.
	It wasn't, you know, it just, you know, I just always thought myself like a stately homosexual.
	So, you know, the gay thing was ill, cringe, and then queer theory becomes aggressively cringe.
	And I think you can see that in Doctor Who.
	I think Doctor Who now is a prime example of queer theory in practice.
	Its intention is to turn your stomach.
	It's using the thrill of the funfair, but in a completely inappropriate setting.
	When people came to our clubs and we used repulsion and shock value, and you know, I was known for being particularly good at projectile vomiting at the time, but that's another story.
	So, but as shock value, As horror, you were in the ghost train, but you paid to go to the ghost train.
	Yeah, it's a safe environment to experience that aspect of reality.
	The audience knew what they were going to get.
	I mean, they may get it a bit harder than they thought they were going to get it, but they still got it and they went home happy.
	Presenting it in a children's program is totally inappropriate, certainly where it's not invited.
	And this is where we get to queer praxis, which is Causing upset, causing disturbance, using that art, the Dadaist art of disturbed situation and its performance art techniques on children.
	To do what?
	What are they trying to do?
	They're trying to alienate the child.
	They're trying to create discomfort.
	And then say, you see, the world, the reason you're uncomfortable is because the world hates you.
	And we've got the answer.
	But also, there's something so sinister about it as well, because this only works if you have the structures and knowledge and love and normalcy to reflect off of it.
	This only works if the person comes to the situation having a traditional sort of upbringing.
	Yes.
	If they've had this weird upbringing where nothing's stable, nothing's fixed, nothing's good or bad and one thing or the other, then what does it mean to them?
	Yeah.
	There's no, you can't get that shock.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, quite.
	It liquidates itself.
	So, I mean, having always been on the cutting edge, as it were, I was shouting from the mid-90s, almost the future's traditionalism, it has to be, as our world is being continually adopted by the mainstream, it is not adopted, it's being wholesale taken by the mainstream.
	It must be, To be avant-garde is to be oppositional to the prevailing culture.
	If the prevailing culture is queerness, which clearly it is, then the opposite is traditionalism and patriotism.
	If it's internationalism, you know, to be cutting edge is obviously always to be, you know, the other, which is why we see, you know, people, I understand why people are surprised that John Lydon supports Trump.
	No, I wasn't surprised by that at all.
	Of course not.
	You know, and so this, the, you know, to coin a phrase by PewDiePie, You laugh, you lose.
	These people have won.
	This is winning.
	This is not losing.
	To laugh at queers for Palestine, Turkey's voting for Christmas.
	That's the point.
	The inversion of reality, the contradictions, that is the point.
	Because queerness isn't again about It's about sexuality.
	It's about a way of seeing the world, of queering the world.
	It's perspectivism.
	You perform queerness, which is why the majority of people who identify as queer, it's also not an identity.
	It is a way of being.
	Behaviour.
	Yeah.
	Which is why most people, the largest group are straight white women, middle class women, who are she-they in their profiles.
	Who will in 20 years time be married with kids.
	Yeah and so it's a way of absolutely it's a way of being different and weird it's the emo of our time but it's much more than that because it has been co-opted the flag that we know and love that looks like it's based on the palestinian flag the uh the the progress pride flag yeah The flag is the flag of the regime.
	So it's been co-opted.
	So it's been co-opted along with all of the anarcho-communist theory that goes in there.
	And I just think it's interesting that what is now queer theory has its roots in a kind of Well, in anarcho-communism.
	In American Marxism.
	In American Marxism, absolutely.
	Which is about destroying the capitalists.
	The United States.
	But it's more than that.
	It's about destroying capitalism and normativity.
	It's about destroying private property.
	The civil society itself.
	Yeah, but private property as far as your house or your children is seen as private.
	Your relationships, you own your relationships.
	Yeah, but I mean it's important to remember that children are perceived as private property in Marxist thinking.
	They bloody well are, that's why I own my children.
	So destroying that is part of the praxis, hence what we're seeing here.
	But I think it's interesting that these street-level queers who want to be gay, do crime, burn down the world... I mean, I think queer should be quaint, actually.
	I think that's what it should stand for, it's quaint.
	Because, oh, we used to think that in, like, the 70s, it was always so punk, or, oh, crass, that's very crass.
	And so this fury, tear it all down, burn it all down, kill everybody.
	It's seen in John Waters.
	I mean, The Female Trouble, the film by John Waters, 1972.
	It's almost like the perfect essay.
	It's a comedy essay in what it's going to become.
	Because it's clown world.
	I mean, it is the triumph of the clowns.
	Yeah, no, it really is.
	But it's kind of quaint, kind of old fashioned and quaint.
	You know, we've got much bigger... Passé, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	So, but...
	Which is why it's mainstream.
	Everything that's mainstream is passé.
	But I just think it's interesting that that's also the dissolution of private property.
	It seems to be, if I'm not mistaken, the aim of the Great Reset, the WEF.
	There's a reason this flag becomes the flag of their regime.
	There's a reason it's flown over Kabul.
	There's a reason it's flown over vanquished nations.
	There's a reason it all meshes together so well.
	They happily took it all in without a second thought.
	If your radical movement can be commercialized and consumerized that quickly, how radical were you in the first place?
	Yeah, or it's useful.
	Well, yeah.
	It's incredibly useful because actually the ends of the two philosophies are the same.
	So I know there are people like James Lindsay, for example, who's discussing the academic side of this, which is much more to do with the operating of the middle class, the bureaucratic class, and where they're getting it from, where they're imbibing it from.
	And people like Karlyn Borysenko who, you know, I think she does a good job on kind of how to fight back at ground level.
	Sure.
	And I think both of the... I've noticed within these communities that's got on Twitter and things, there's quite a lot of bickering going on between, you know, what communism is and it's not like it's like this... Look guys, we've got serious issues and everyone has got a different part of the elephant they're feeling.
	Can we just, you know, try and get a bigger picture of the animal itself and deal with what we've got to deal with?
	Some people are going, oh hey, you know, they're losing viewership on Doctor Who.
	Yeah, that's the point.
	Haven't you noticed iconoclasm is, you know, is part of every single franchise being destroyed.
	Everything you love is being destroyed.
	It's intentional.
	It's part of the plan, and like feminism, it's running its course.
	This is what it's designed to do, and this is what it's succeeding in doing.
	And while people laugh up their sleeves about how ridiculous it is, you're forgetting you're laughing at clowns.
	That's what they're meant for.
	They want to be laughed at.
	And you're laughing at the fact they've stolen something from you.
	Yeah.
	That's the thing.
	And they're continually stealing.
	We're going to have to draw to a close here.
	We've got a few super chats.
	Sorry, we won't get any video comments or normal comments.
	Blood for the Blood God sends us $500 on Roblox.
	No way.
	I know.
	Wow.
	Thanks very much, man.
	I really appreciate that.
	And OPHUK, still not saying that name, It says there are good Muslims, but many bad ones to keep important.
	Yeah, that's the problem.
	It's not there aren't good Muslims.
	It's that the problem is the gates have been left wide open and there's been absolutely nothing in the way of discernment.
	But I just, I just wanted to, you know, do the devil's work.
	You were completely right to do so.
	Thank you for having me very much.
	I'm at thecathedral.hq.
	You can email thecathedral.studio at gmail.com, thecathedral.studio at gmail.com if you want to come and do some music, make some visuals, do some art, and yeah, just kind of We've been very banned.
	I just wanted to say we have been absolutely... For some reason, we are the naughty people.
	But that's how you know you're the interesting people.
	Well, hey.
	I don't watch anyone who doesn't get demonetised.
	Yeah, so if you look at our stuff, the audience numbers are really choked.
	Everything's choked.
	But I just think there's something positive in creating an evacuum to get your stuff together.
	I'm a firm believer of this.
	Who wants to see the art of someone who got everything handed to them on a plate?
	Yeah, well, it's yeah, it's opposition.
	Anyway, go do contact Matt if you're an artist and you're interested in collaborating and we will be back tomorrow.

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