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Feb. 21, 2024 - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters

01:33:21

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #855

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	Hi folks, welcome to the podcast of the Lotus Eaters for Wednesday the 21st of welcome to the podcast of the Lotus Eaters for Wednesday the Hi folks, welcome to the podcast The Lotus Eaters for Wednesday, the 21st of February.
	I should have had that memorized.
	I'm joined by Narendra Kaur, the commentator, and we're going to be disagreeing on most things, but I think that the conversation itself will be interesting.
	I expect you all to be very polite in the comments because Narendra has taken time out of her day to come here and discuss these things with us.
	And so please do be on your best behavior.
	But today we are going to be talking about whether we should be disgusted to be British, why people hate Harry and Meghan, and the amount of money that we're spending on immigration.
	Be uncontroversial.
	But before we begin, afterwards, three o'clock today, we'll be doing a Cyberpunk Dystopia Hangout on the website.
	You of course have to be a premium subscriber to go and watch that, but we're going to be talking about the future of war.
	It's not good news, by the way.
	The future of war is looking bad.
	Um, but anyway, um, oh yeah, Calvin is also away tomorrow as well.
	So no common sense crusade tomorrow.
	Um, but anyway, so let's begin.
	Um, so recently, uh, something happened that, um, I guess we'll get the, uh, Yeah.
	This was posted, sorry John can we go back to that please, by Catherine Hamnett.
	Now Catherine Hamnett is an English fashion designer, comes from a well-to-do family and has been quite famous for her shirts that have been just block letters I love that.
	that have been well received shall we say by politically engaged pop stars mostly so you can see i remember those yeah they're from the 80s yeah i love that i love that look in the 80s yeah i mean george michael famously yes life on his so she's she's um pretty famous for doing this and This is a pro-refugee shirt for a non-profit, which is something we can talk about later.
	Yes.
	And so she put this video out and I thought we'd watch it quickly.
	It's only 27 seconds.
	Is the sound on that not working, John, or is it?
	It is.
	It's on.
	Okay, for some reason we can't hear the sound on that, Jon.
	Go to this site, theyworkforyou.com, find your MP and tell them you'll never vote for them again unless they support a permanency.
	I'm disgusted to be British for our role in genocide in Gaza.
	This is my CBE.
	It belongs in the dustbin with Sunak and Starmer.
	Go to this site, theyworkforyou.com, find your MP.
	I love that.
	Right, so for anyone wondering, the CB is the commander of the Order of the British Empire that she was given in 2011 for her services to the fashion industry.
	What do you make of the shirt?
	You know what?
	I retweeted it and so many people just always, they always miss my point.
	By the way, thank you for that nice little introduction and telling everyone to be nice.
	Because it's weird, isn't it?
	Because Carl and I have been in the Green Room and we've had such a good conversation already, haven't we?
	And I think it's sad that You know, you're on one end of the spectrum.
	I'm on the other, supposedly.
	But actually, the fact that we can't be able to get together and have a debate or have a chat with our people thinking that we should be mean to one another, that's just not correct.
	That's not normal.
	We're adults.
	So we should be able to, you know, I have come up my way.
	I'm looking forward to this.
	And from what I've judged in the green room already, everyone's so lovely here.
	We've had such a good discussion.
	I don't know how it's going to go after this.
	But anyway, this reminded me of our first interaction on Twitter because it was about the army and I put, as being sarcastic, thank God I'm from Pakistan.
	And the whole point about that was because I'm constantly being told whatever opinion I have of Britain, I'm a British citizen, I was born here, Get back to Pakistan.
	Well, it's FC, you know, hey, back to Pakistan.
	And the reason I retweeted this is because I thought if I wore that t-shirt, by the way, I've ordered it, so I will be wearing that, right?
	Okay, so.
	Okay, but hang on.
	Okay, so there are going to be lots of people who are watching this going, wow, she really hates Britain.
	Well, who says I really hate Britain?
	Well, lots of people in your replies on Twitter say that.
	So because Catherine Hamlet wears that, and I think obviously she's getting people a bit upset about it, but if I wore that, the reaction would be catastrophic.
	They would go mental if I wore that because I'm brown.
	And my point was, and you should have saw the replies when I put, if I'd worn that, and people were like, well, yeah, you are from Pakistan.
	Why isn't she being told to go back to Pakistan?
	I'm not from Pakistan!
	Because she's English.
	I'm English.
	Okay, now we need to talk about this.
	So this is what I wanted to get into.
	Yeah, let's get into this.
	Why am I?
	I'm British born.
	I've integrated.
	My God, I've integrated.
	In fact, I get accused from people in my community, oh my God, you've forgotten your culture, you've forgotten your religion, you've forgotten this.
	Look how you dress, look what you wear.
	I can't win a card.
	Where can I win?
	Because they're telling me I'm not Indian enough, I've forgotten my roots.
	And you're telling me, well you don't quite fit in here either.
	So where should I go?
	Where do I go?
	I'm not saying you don't fit in.
	You do fit in, right?
	Actually, you sound very British.
	Right.
	But you're obviously a product of this country, right?
	Right.
	But the problem is the modern interpretation of ethnicity and identity, because English is an ethnic identity, right?
	So you can't change it and you don't adopt it.
	It's something you are born with.
	It's because my dad's English that I'm English.
	You told me your dad was from... Well, no, my dad's half from St Helena.
	Right, so therefore you're not then?
	No, his mother was English, so he is therefore English, and therefore I'm English, right?
	And so there's no denying that that is an English lineage.
	In a thousand years, if someone DNA tests my bones, they'll find English lineage, right?
	And if they DNA test yours, they'll say, oh, Northwestern India.
	Yes, correct.
	So that is...
	In a mutable fact that the ethnicity you have, you can't change.
	But then you have a cultural identity that comes, I guess, concurrent to it, which reflects how you were born and raised, where you were born and raised.
	So, for example, you sound very British because you were born and raised in Britain.
	And in modern Europe, the problem that we have is that we are trying to apply the kind of American standard of identity to Europe.
	And that doesn't work.
	For example, what do you mean?
	Right, so in America, you know, America's got a very incorporative identity.
	To be an American, you have to believe a certain thing, work in a certain way, and wave the American flag.
	And then the Americans go, oh yeah, well you're an American, come in.
	That's not how Europe works.
	Europe is an old country.
	But let's talk about Britain, because you don't have much respect for Europe, to buy a conversation in the green room.
	It's not that I don't respect them, it's that I don't like them.
	Yeah, you don't like it, but let's talk about British culture.
	So you're saying I'm not English because of my lineage.
	I'll take that on board.
	That's okay.
	But I'm British.
	Yeah, that's true.
	And that's not an insult.
	I didn't take it as an insult either.
	I want to be Indian.
	I am Indian.
	It's just the fact of the matter.
	And so it's not a judgment call or anything like that.
	But when you, when you try to, if, if for example, I went over to India and said, Oh, I'm just as Indian as anyone.
	I, you know, like if Rudyard Kipling is India's most famous poet, it's like, well, he's not an Indian.
	He's English and everyone knows he's English.
	And that's why the English got kicked out of India upon decolonization.
	They all had to get on their boats and leave.
	Yeah, they should have as well.
	Not a moment too soon.
	But hang on a minute.
	If I went over to India, I didn't just come over here.
	I was born here.
	So was Rudyard Kipling born in India?
	Yeah.
	And he had to leave?
	It wasn't because of that.
	It wasn't because of his ethnicity.
	It wasn't because of his ethnicity.
	It was 100% because he was an Englishman.
	There's so many white people in India.
	Now English people live in there.
	Now they're not being chucked out.
	No one is being chucked out.
	Yeah, but when that happened, it was because he was an Englishman.
	No, I think there was just a lot of, there was a whole partition.
	Everyone was leaving.
	It wasn't because they said, you're English, you've got to go.
	100%.
	And the same with the French in Algeria.
	The French just had to leave in the suitcase or the coffin because it was ethnically defined.
	But then that's dreadful, because are you saying... Well, is it dreadful?
	Right, so is that what you're proposing we do here in this country?
	No, I'm not proposing anything.
	What I'm proposing is for us to actually think about the... Because, I mean, this is within living memory for some people.
	I'll tell you what's in living memory, because it is in living memory, actually, but actually the damage the British did in India and the Jallianwala Bagh massacre, that's in living memory, actually.
	And that was done to Sikhs, to Punjabis, when General, oh God, I forget his name at the top of my head, and he ordered the killings of women and children.
	That was in the 1940s.
	I can't remember the top of my head.
	If we can get it, if we can get it on the snobby system, John, if we can get the Jallianwala Bagh.
	I'll take your word for it.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Yes.
	So what I'm saying is that there's a lot of things that we have in living memory because what I find is, and I watched your show last night and actually found a lot of it funny.
	I was telling you that I found, I didn't find, I didn't watch it.
	Oh my God, how dare they?
	I have a sense of humor and that's what being British is about.
	I watch it and thought, well, actually they've got a point, especially with that bit about the smelly food.
	Yeah.
	Now we discussed this in the green room.
	And by the way, do I smell Indian?
	Because I was cooking.
	You do not smell Indian to me.
	Okay.
	So I was cooking Indian food this morning and i thought oh my god does my hair smell of it you smell normal but guess what call i've gone on after big brother i remember going for a run and they're like oh my god we saw that pee off big brother and she stank of curry and i still get that right i still get she stank of curry now we have this discussion about you know that that library sign that keep your smelly food out especially if you're making small sorry if you're eating small or chapati filled by the way that's called a barata
	and and you said what's wrong with that yeah well i i don't see a problem with that right well and And I think you were right going back to because I watched his show last night, but actually I see he's got a point because why would you bring smelly food of any kind into a library?
	And you're right because that's not inclusive.
	But this is the problem with basically the way the modern world conceives of what a human being is.
	Because human beings are part of an ethnic group, right?
	They're all part of an ethnic group.
	Why does that matter?
	Why is that important?
	For the reason that the French had to leave Morocco, for the reason that the English had to leave India.
	No, the English had to leave India because they had to leave because they colonized it and took over and took everything they had.
	It wasn't because of ethnicity.
	Stop, stop, stop.
	It is because of ethnicity.
	It wasn't ethnicity.
	Stop, stop, stop.
	Let me finish, right?
	You characterized it as baggage that the English ethnic group carried through time in this place, right?
	The English committed the massacre, right?
	The English ruled over India.
	Yeah, they killed millions of Bengalis in the Bengali farm and millions of other... No, no, hang on, that's... Okay, well, let's not get into that.
	That's different.
	That was because Japanese were attacking trade routes and Well, they still, they still, Winsor Churchill still killed millions of Bengalis.
	He said he didn't care.
	That's a fact.
	No, it doesn't matter if he said he didn't care.
	Anyway, I don't want to get in the weeds, right?
	But the point is, you've constructed something in your mind that is the English and there is baggage that's attached to it.
	And there's, there's positive things as well.
	Like there's, uh, don't say the railway.
	If you say the railway, I was going to say law and order, actually.
	Really?
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	No, no, no, no.
	Hang on.
	Right.
	You're clutching at straws here.
	This is what I find... I don't think so.
	You said that I've lined up... But the point being is that there is a thing called the English.
	It's identifiable.
	You know it when you see it.
	How?
	Well, most of the time by looking at the person.
	So you're white?
	English people are white, yeah.
	Then from Northwest Europe, all Northwest Europeans are white.
	And does that matter?
	Why is that important?
	It depends.
	It's as important as saying that people from China have black hair.
	Right.
	It's just a fact.
	Right.
	It's just one of the characteristics.
	People from India... We've got brown skin.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Black eyes.
	But these are noticeable differences.
	And From this, you get the idea of the ethnic identity of that people.
	And to this, you attach various things.
	So, for example, I'm not saying the Indians aren't justified in having grievances against the English.
	I'm not saying they're not.
	I'm saying this is something that exists.
	And it exists in people's minds so naturally that we don't even think about it, even when we're trying to argue against it.
	It's like, well, the English should leave.
	But conversely, the English aren't allowed to have any grievances against any of the foreign groups who have come here.
	It's like, well, no, they will have, whether you like it or not, because these things are real aspects of human nature.
	They're real things about people.
	Every person has an ethnicity.
	So, right.
	Okay.
	So, so the attempt of the, and it's really sort of like the late 20th century liberal ideology to try and say, well, actually, aren't we all just individuals existing outside of time and space?
	No, actually, because the ethnicity itself comes with a lot of baggage in and of itself.
	So it comes with cultural traditions, for example.
	Like, I mean, I'm sure you're aware that your cultural traditions are very different, say French cultural traditions.
	I mean, what's, what's infidelity like in Pajambi culture?
	It's looked down upon.
	Right.
	The French don't care.
	Right.
	The French are genuinely gross when it comes to the internet.
	Whereas the English really do care, right?
	Yeah, they care.
	But they still do it.
	Sure.
	Okay.
	But it's stigmatized, right?
	Whereas in France it's not stigmatized.
	But the English and the French racially are not very different.
	Like you probably couldn't pick an Englishman and a Frenchman out on the lineup.
	Absolutely not, no.
	Or an Irishman or a... But that's the difference.
	In the culture itself, because you're born in a continuum of something that's happening, The thing generates its own values and then passes them on through the people.
	And this matters.
	And so that's why you can say, no, the English have to leave India because they carry the baggage of what has come before them and they carry it.
	It wasn't about the baggage.
	It's because you've done your rule.
	You took what you wanted.
	And now it's time for us to take back our country because you were ruling our country for nearly 400 years.
	So now it's time that you just pack your bags and go.
	I agree.
	But who's the prime minister of Britain?
	Rishi Sunak.
	Was that a trick question?
	No.
	Why is there an Indian ruling over Britain?
	I don't know, you tell me.
	Well, I mean, obviously, it's suspicious, right?
	No, hang on.
	No, let me ask... No, no, let me turn this around.
	No, no, no, hang on.
	So what if he is?
	He's actually not Indian.
	Right, no, but so what?
	Exactly.
	He's British Indian.
	So what?
	So what?
	You... But he isn't... You just set out... But he, as a British Indian, hasn't come and taken all your resources, all your money, and he's going to go back to India.
	He's going to stay in Britain.
	I think that when the country collapses, he'll piss off to India.
	We won't go to India.
	He's never going to go to India.
	He's not even from India.
	He'll probably go to America.
	He, one person, hasn't taken all your resources and he's going to go back to India.
	I'm not saying he's going to go back to India, right?
	But we didn't take all the resources from India.
	Trillions and trillions and trillions pounds worth of debt you put that country into.
	But thank God commerce came around and we're making our way back up.
	Let's assume that's just all true, but the point is, there's an ethnic identity which is Indian, and it has a history with the ethnic identity of English.
	So it does matter in that case, and it matters in this case as well.
	Why?
	In which case, sorry?
	In the case of an Indian ruling over Britain, especially as he wasn't elected.
	If he was elected, it'd be totally different.
	But why is the fact that he's brown?
	It's not that he's brown.
	He could be green.
	It's the fact that he's Indian.
	Why is that a problem?
	Oh my God, Colin, I'm so shocked you said that.
	I'm not saying it's a problem.
	But he's not from India.
	His parents are from Kenya.
	Are they not?
	Can we, John?
	I love this.
	I love John fact-checking everything.
	No, no, no.
	That is true because his parents were part of the British Imperial Administration.
	Right, and so they... Heavily recruited from India.
	And they went over... And his parents came over as immigrants.
	Yeah.
	Economic immigrants, may I just add.
	But who asked for that?
	This country.
	But what does that mean?
	Because the average person didn't ask for it.
	And you can see... When you say that average person didn't ask for it, that's the argument about the whole immigration.
	The average person didn't ask for it.
	But your average person isn't doing the jobs that need doing.
	Right?
	Let's get right down to it.
	I don't think that's true.
	The average person in Britain does not want to clean someone else's bum.
	Right?
	So you've got to get your economic... I don't think that's true.
	Really?
	Okay, find me one, find me one right now who, British person, who wants to clean the bum of some elderly people for the rest of their life on £10.33 an hour.
	Well 75% of care is done by British people.
	British again, but they're still brown.
	They're brown and black people.
	White English is 75% of England's care system.
	You know what?
	The NHS and the social care system in this country would collapse without migrants.
	It would collapse.
	This country, the NHS, social care workers, they would collapse.
	But that's true, but that's only because a quarter of the country is migrant.
	But then what's your point about... My point is that the NHS didn't collapse before they arrived.
	What time are you talking about?
	Because this country, this country has always relied upon migrants.
	It's always relied.
	If you weren't going around, you know, colonising countries in half the world, you did a great job on that pat on the back, yes?
	If you weren't doing that, then when you did come back, when you had to come back because actually the country said we're not having this anymore, then you came back because guess what you did then?
	You couldn't carry on with just your country doing your own jobs.
	You didn't because my dad...
	My dad was invited over to this country, my uncles, my grandad.
	First of all, they fought in World War One and World War Two and died, my in-laws, my husband's great grandad.
	Then they've come over to this country because they were invited to come over, invited, as if that makes it better, to do the jobs.
	My dad worked in the steel foundries in West Bromwich because no one else would do them, they needed double travel shifts.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	I'm not saying that you weren't invited to come by the British state.
	Because you're saying, why were we invited?
	Yeah.
	Well, that's, that's a good question.
	You said what?
	Because the jobs needed doing.
	I don't think that's true.
	Right.
	Hang on.
	Right.
	If the jobs didn't have anyone to do them, why was Thatcher's decommissioning of the mining system and the steel industry such a devastating blow for the North of England?
	That was 95% white, right?
	They did these things.
	They did do these things and they took pride in doing these things.
	Of course, I'm not saying, I'm not saying indigenous people didn't.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	Right.
	Yeah, but that's the point, right?
	So I'm not saying that your, your dad, your granddad, whoever didn't, didn't serve, didn't work hard and didn't do something that was very useful, right?
	That is definitely true.
	My granddad did the same.
	Right.
	He was a farmer.
	Right.
	I'm not saying that's not true, but what the, the problem with the narrative as you're laying it out, It implies that the English did nothing, and actually they were almost all of it.
	The migrants, for example, in 1961, 3% of this country was of immigrant background, and half of that was Irish.
	So that's a tiny sliver, you would never notice them.
	And what's the percentage now then?
	It's still not the majority.
	No, no, it's 25%.
	Right.
	The country worked fairly well back in the 60s, like the NHS.
	If it was working fairly well, why were they being invited over then?
	Because of loyalty, actually.
	Oh, man, Carl, you can't be saying it's because of loyalty.
	So you're saying this British government back then, when my dad, granddad, everyone came over in the 50s and 60s, they felt a bit of loyalty and thought, we feel a bit sorry for them, let's bring them over.
	Are you kidding me?
	Kidding me?
	No.
	No government in the history of any country in the world, I'm not even talking about British government, has ever felt sorry for someone else.
	They've invited people over.
	Oh, they haven't done it out of loyalty.
	Loyalty!
	Yes, because these people served the empire.
	They didn't care.
	We were left in squalor.
	We were left in squalor.
	They didn't.
	We've had to build it up.
	It's taken up until now.
	Decades and decades and decades of building this back up.
	If they felt some kind of loyalty or all of India, and I'm saying that they were invited over actually because they weren't doing the jobs in the middle and the steel foundry workers, they couldn't get them.
	When my dad worked, when my dad worked, and there's actually videos, I found them on TikTok.
	I wish I don't know if John can find it, but there's videos on TikTok and the seal foundry workers back in the 1670s, all brown, all brown people working in them foundries.
	My dad didn't have white people working down the foundries with him.
	My father was a bus driver.
	So they, honestly, the bus drivers in Coventry were all brown.
	It was all the Indians that came over.
	Yeah, but this is a really small slice of the country.
	And you're, okay, but then that's, you're still not, you're still not answering the question.
	Well, you did answer, but I don't buy it.
	That's absolute nonsense.
	You said it's because this, this government, we didn't need these people to come over.
	It was just a sense of loyalty.
	Okay.
	That is nonsense.
	I'll respond, right?
	So the reason that, for example, John's father's here, because he served in the army, That's why John is here.
	And because this is how the British system worked.
	If you served the British Empire, then you were invited to come and live in Britain.
	Right?
	That's how my grandfather got here.
	Well, that's not how mine were anyway.
	It wasn't because they served.
	They came up because they were invited to do the jobs.
	Well, I mean, you said he was in the army.
	That was great grandad's.
	But my dad was invited over because to do the jobs.
	And the same thing's happening now.
	You've got migrants coming over.
	Hang on, hang on.
	No one's inviting the migrants at the moment, right?
	The migrants are just being given a free rein.
	They're not free rent, they're given work visas, right?
	So you can't just come over.
	You know these myths?
	The restrictions on that is very low.
	We need to bust these myths.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	That's not true, right?
	Tony Blair and Gordon Brown both sent out literal search parties to go and find people to come over, right?
	Why?
	Because there is this very mistaken belief that the sheer number of people in a country translates into economic growth.
	But that's not, are you saying that's a myth then?
	Because actually, immigration and migration coming into any country, whether it's Britain, America, wherever, it contributes towards your net production.
	Not if they're dependents.
	If they're dependents or they bring dependents, which one?
	Both.
	If an economic migrant comes over, whether it's low skilled, whatever skill you want to call it, yes?
	They're coming on a work visa.
	They're young.
	The majority are coming on a work visa and they have to show on that work visa that they're able to provide for any dependents, wife, kids.
	They have to be able to show that.
	They're contributing to the economy of this country.
	If that was the case, why is half of London's social housing immigrant born?
	Immigrant born?
	Yeah.
	They were born overseas.
	Right.
	They've come to Britain and now they've got social housing in London.
	Well, London, I guess it's a capital city.
	The point is it's just not true.
	But you know they're spending money.
	You know whether they're coming over, whether they're... They're spending my money!
	They're not spending your... They are!
	It's my tax money!
	But they're putting it back into the system.
	I don't care.
	I don't want to have my tax money.
	We need growth.
	But that's not growth.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	Let me finish this book because I will forget this point.
	Go on.
	This country alone without economic migrants, the average wage is 30k.
	So they're not contributing to the system.
	So who are you picking on?
	You're picking on migrants.
	So migrants coming over, they're spending the money, they're putting it back into the suspended shop, suspended restaurant, suspended food, spending their money, yeah?
	They're earning money.
	It's called... Yes, but guess who else is spending your money?
	Money.
	British-born people who are also sat on their bums at home.
	Yeah, I know.
	I don't like that either.
	If that helps.
	But the thing is, I can't... Thank you for letting me make my point there.
	That's okay.
	I can't get rid of the British-born people who are spending my money.
	Right.
	I don't like that they're spending money.
	How many is there?
	How many?
	How many have we got who are on benefits in this country?
	Plenty.
	Who will not work?
	Can't work, won't work.
	Hang on, stop.
	Right, right.
	I'm not saying that's not the case, right, but I can't get rid of those people.
	Those people have got nowhere else to go.
	They come from here, they're our problem, but someone... But you're not dealing with them anyway.
	What?
	You can't deal with them.
	It doesn't matter, right?
	Right, OK.
	The point is, OK, I agree that those people shouldn't be working.
	Right.
	But then why should Ahmed from wherever come over and also join them?
	He's not doing them because Ahmed, you're putting Ahmed, OK, let's say Dratinda.
	Yeah.
	Let's use the Punjabi name.
	Let's use a Polish name, any name.
	You've gone on the Muslim name.
	Really?
	Oh, wow.
	That's always, we always just direct straight to the Muslim.
	Ahmed comes over and he's of young working age.
	In this country, the ratio to the younger generation, who obviously school age, the children, babies, whatever, to the old age pensioners who are also dependent on the tax that we bring into this country, on our tax, on that bag of money that we've got.
	We need these young people coming in because they're working.
	They're not.
	That's the problem.
	They are working.
	Who told you they're not working?
	Who said they're not working?
	The Office of National Statistics.
	Are you talking about this report?
	Because there's a lot of reports that prove... There are lots of reports that prove lots of things.
	There's lots of reports.
	Hang on.
	Stop.
	Right.
	So, what you're throwing at me are the mainstream defences For things that are designed to flatten out the thing into a yes or no categorical answer, right?
	And it's not that easy.
	Yeah, let's not make it black and white.
	So the problem is that Ahmed has no right to any state benefits from the British state.
	But he's not getting state benefits, he's come on a work visa, and without a work visa, if he's come over illegally, he won't get any benefits.
	I'm not talking about illegals, I'm talking about legals.
	OK, but then they've got a work visa.
	But that's not the case, and we know this because 47% of London's social housing is going to immigrants.
	Let's talk about it all.
	No, no, no.
	I really want to hammer on this point, right?
	So this is a categoric injustice to the tax-paying people of Britain.
	You are one of these people who were born and raised in Britain and some foreigner is taking your money to slack around in a house all day.
	Who said there's slacking around in a house?
	Where's your proof on that?
	Where's your evidence on that?
	Because they need social housing, right?
	If you're working hard, you don't need a social house.
	But then you say that to the people who are born in this country as well because they're all just lacking social housing.
	I do say that, but there's a difference here.
	What's the difference?
	Colour of skin?
	They're British.
	The hue of your... They're British.
	It's not about hue, it's about lineage, right?
	They don't come from somewhere else.
	Ahmed comes from someone else.
	He has a country, a family, a history, a lineage in a different country.
	And now he's arrived on our shores and the British government... To help the economy!
	You know when they're working and they're contributing... But he's not helping the economy if he's being given a social house.
	That is a drain on the economy.
	That's not, that's also a myth.
	It's not a myth.
	The drain on this economy is also people born, you're saying, OK.
	I'm not saying people born here aren't a drain as well.
	OK, this is what you're saying.
	OK, I understand what you're saying now.
	OK, I get what you're saying.
	Correct me if I'm wrong.
	You're saying that actually there are people born in this country that also are a drain and a burden to our system, to our infrastructure, to et cetera, et cetera.
	But actually they're allowed because they're English.
	We can't get rid of them.
	Right.
	They're allowed because they're white.
	No, they're allowed because the government's soft.
	Right, okay, but the Ahmed from wherever isn't allowed because he's a foreigner.
	Now let's take that argument back to the 1960s, 50s when my dad came over.
	They set the same ban and my dad paid his taxes.
	Yeah, but we didn't have a benefits system then like we do now.
	They did, they used to say the exact same thing back then.
	Yeah, but the benefits system is wildly inflated since the 50s.
	Possibly, but back then they used to say, they're also a burden on our system.
	Look at them.
	My dad used to get called the P word at the same time as paying his taxes and working all the hours God sent him.
	Anyone should get abused.
	Right.
	Okay.
	But what I'm trying to say to you is that no matter which way you come into this country, whether it's legally, legal, et cetera, and the legal migration, what was it?
	700,000 have come over.
	Net.
	Net have come over.
	Either way you look at it, no one's ever been made to feel welcome in this country.
	My dad was not made to feel welcome.
	No one's been made to feel welcome.
	Your point is that, your point is that the British born, they're allowed to do that.
	We can't do anything about it.
	Yes.
	No, no.
	Okay.
	Stop.
	Hang on.
	What would this pun team?
	What would this pun team?
	Hang on, hang on.
	Every person in Britain would definitely want to have British-born people who are on benefits taken off of benefits, right?
	Yeah, definitely.
	Every normal English person.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.
	We can carve out Okay, that's fine.
	Pensioners, people disabled, but you know and I know that there are going to be probably a couple of million of fat slackers taking drugs and smoking cigarettes and for some reason the Labour government permitted this, right?
	This is the product of Tony Blair's Labour where they expanded the welfare state and allowed this to happen and then they opened the borders and so what we have is a system of perverse incentives where we're not only, and I think it's A total failure on the part of the British to allow any percentage of their population to do that.
	I'm totally against that.
	Against?
	Against just a welfare state.
	I do not like a welfare state.
	But then to say, OK, we're going to have open borders and so some rando can come over and then he can claim it as well.
	That's mad, isn't it?
	Well, you're saying open borders.
	We've never had open borders, firstly.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	Secondly, no, you're not letting me finish and you've spoken.
	Firstly, we've never had open borders.
	Secondly, some rando coming over and just claiming they don't, they come over.
	Oh no, I've said it again and we're going to keep going round in circles.
	They're working.
	It's not true.
	From what I see, I see people working hard.
	I see young men and women working hard.
	I'm not saying none of them work.
	I'm not saying none of them work.
	But they do work.
	No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
	That's the thing.
	You're trying to collapse this down into either yes or no.
	That's not the case.
	So for example, out of the 1.2 million that came in last year, something like 350,000 got work visas.
	Right.
	Right.
	So that's most of them not on a work visa.
	So how did they come over?
	So if you're going to collapse this down into a yes or no, your point's wrong.
	No, but then how did they come over then?
	Student visas, dependence visas, stuff like this.
	Right, student visas because the universities need the money.
	So who's failing us at?
	Okay, great.
	Now the universities... Stop, stop.
	The universities are not... The universities should not merely be for economic benefit.
	Again, it's a perverse incentive.
	But take that up with the government then.
	They're not giving the universities any money.
	I'm happy to, but the government are the ones letting in 1.2 million a year.
	Right.
	So they are funneling into this same system.
	Okay, but then why?
	Therefore your anger should be directed at the government, not who they're letting in.
	That's not their fault.
	That's not their fault then.
	They're like, okay, you're inviting us, we'll come over.
	Some of these people are not very nice, yes.
	What do you mean the immigrants?
	Some of them are absolutely livery and petrified and can't even work!
	Some of them aren't!
	Right.
	And this is the problem.
	There's very little discernment in the quality of the immigrant.
	When you say some of their aunt, tell me.
	Okay, well, let's take the grooming gangs, for example.
	Oh, wow.
	I definitely don't want to go down that route.
	Why?
	Because they're a really great example of foreigners who have come here and really abused our hospitality.
	Were they not British born, some of them?
	No, a lot of them are going to be immigrant.
	I mean, maybe one or two are British born.
	But the point is, it's an immigrant community.
	Right, and this is the real issue.
	You're talking about rare cases, and I'm not talking about grooming.
	It's not rare.
	I'm talking about when people are doing a good job of grooming.
	Let's not go down that.
	Something like 10% of Rotherham's male Muslims are involved in the grooming.
	But that's not rare, right?
	But then how many white paedophiles have you got?
	English paedophiles?
	I don't know.
	Look at the one up in Scotland.
	What difference does it make?
	Because you're the one in the ethnicity.
	And actually Suella Broadman was corrected on that.
	And she was having to apologize because she said the ethnicity was Pakistan.
	That was false.
	It was false.
	No, it's not false.
	The grooming gangs are mostly Pakistan.
	That's not false.
	Okay, I don't want to go down that route.
	86%.
	Because you could, if we're going to talk about paedophiles, you've got, I'm not, I'm not really interested in talking about paedophiles.
	I don't want to go down that route.
	I'm interested in talking about the fact that if you have what is effectively an open system, ripe for abuse, then you invite the people in foreign countries who are willing to abuse the system to just come and abuse it.
	Abuse the system as in the benefit system.
	The benefits, the fact, I mean like, has there been a single person with brown skin who's ever been convicted of a hate crime?
	I've been convicted of many things.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	Can we get the figures up?
	Maybe they have.
	I don't know.
	I can't find it broken down by ethnicity.
	And the only ones I ever see are white English people.
	Then they shouldn't hate then?
	No.
	Then they shouldn't hate?
	No.
	Then they shouldn't commit a crime?
	I don't know.
	It's terrible because it seems to be racially targeted against the English.
	Right?
	We have literal laws.
	There's no evidence of that, Colin.
	There is absolutely no evidence on that.
	Evidence is where we derive that impression.
	Immigrants are also doing crime and these are all myths.
	There's no ethnicity that commits more crime than the other.
	No ethnicity in this country commits more crime than the other.
	Why would you say that?
	Because there's no evidence to prove that brown people commit more crime.
	What evidence would you look for?
	What do you mean?
	What would be evidence that there's a difference in criminality between ethnicities?
	Sorry, explain that.
	What do you mean?
	If you were looking for statistics to suggest that one ethnic group was more prone to commit criminal acts than another, what kind of statistics would you look for?
	Well, the government official statistics is what I'd be looking for.
	But what kind of statistics?
	What would it show?
	Prison population, maybe?
	Yeah, come on then.
	You tell me, I don't know.
	Then it's definitely that some ethnicities commit more crimes than others.
	No!
	Muslims and Blacks are massively over-represented in prisons.
	White people are over-represented in prisons.
	No, they're under-represented.
	I don't know, that's not true, Karl.
	It is absolutely true.
	None of this is true.
	No, it's absolutely true.
	You are just making up things.
	I'm not making up anything.
	This is not true.
	Why would I make it up?
	Are you saying our prisons are actually a majority of black and brown people?
	Why does it have to be a majority?
	No.
	Why does it have to be a majority?
	But then what is it then?
	Well, it's something like 30% black.
	Right, OK, so then it's not, so therefore it's still more white people.
	Yeah, but this is per capita.
	Obviously.
	But out of a population of 3% black, If the prison population is 30% black, it should be 3% black to be accurately represented, right?
	You said it's 30%.
	I need to see that.
	I don't believe that at all.
	I don't believe that at all.
	Maybe a prison where there's more... Muslims as well are also massively over-represented.
	And so are white people.
	As they should be, because we are a majority white country.
	But white people are not.
	They're underrepresented in the prisons.
	No.
	It is the case.
	But the thing is, why wouldn't it be the case?
	What are you appealing to?
	Because what I'm saying to you is because we're a majority white country.
	But when you say there's no difference, why would there be no difference?
	What do you mean no difference?
	In the criminality rates of different ethnic groups.
	Why would there be no difference?
	Because there is, because we can't target, there's no proof to target that black or brown people commit more crime.
	There's absolutely no evidence to that.
	No, there's not.
	There's absolutely no evidence for that.
	Look at the stabbings, right?
	Black teenagers are massively represented.
	In London, but not in Liverpool or Newcastle.
	Then you've got white majority stabbings.
	Yeah, of course you do.
	Yeah, but even when you break down the data, In London maybe, but not in Newcastle, Manchester, then you've got white crime, then you've got white knife crime.
	I appreciate that, but the amount of it per capita is lower, right?
	So this, but... Karl, I just feel, look, I want to be, I want to have, you know... But this is a real thing.
	This is true.
	I just feel... This is real, but the question is why can't we talk about that honestly?
	I want you to, and I want to sit here, and I want to understand each other.
	And what I'm getting from you, Carl, is you're going on colour a lot.
	And I don't think there's anything wrong with that either, by the way.
	It's just the way the government breaks down the data, right?
	They say Asian, Black, White, English.
	You seem to be going, like you've got, like we were talking in the green room there, and you really believe in Britain, English, England to stay in England.
	Britain being Britain and this little island and no one can come in and no one can go out and this is us.
	That doesn't make us great.
	I'm not saying that.
	What puts the great into Britain?
	Literally the islands themselves, right?
	Great Britain So not the people, not the vibe, not the culture, not the this?
	Literally, the term Great Britain just means the main British island and the islands around it.
	I know, but you're talking, you're literally talking, I'm asking you what makes Great Britain.
	I'm not talking just the islands.
	I don't think we're a very great country at the moment.
	I think actually we're in a real nadir at the moment.
	Why is that?
	Um, because we're not respecting our own country, we're not respecting ourselves, we're not respecting the traditions of history.
	How do we respect our, okay, how am I not, okay, me, how am I not respecting the country?
	How should I respect the country more?
	Sure, you seem to take the position that is directly against the interests of the average British person, right?
	Which is weird because it's also your interest, right?
	You're actually quite similar to most British people.
	You're married, you've got a couple of kids, you work, you pay taxes.
	So I can only assume it's because of ethnicity that you find yourself on the other side of that.
	Because why would you want Ahmed taking your money to live and sloven around in a house?
	Because I don't think, I don't think Ahmed is coming over and slobbering around the house.
	I'm a little bit more annoyed that John up in Newcastle is slobbering around the house also.
	And actually he's been given all the opportunities.
	So it is a question of... Ahmed is coming over with hunger and he's coming over with... Actually I want to make something with my life.
	I don't understand.
	I do know that because, I do know that because my dad, uncles and everyone came with the same...
	Yes, but they were Akhmed back in the 50s and 60s.
	Akhmed never served in the British Army.
	No, but Akhmed's great-grandad may have served in the army.
	A lot of Muslims did.
	I'm not saying they didn't.
	I'm not saying they didn't.
	But what I'm saying to you is, I do want them to come over because I want them, because the NHS being propped up by Asian doctors.
	It's not.
	It's absolute nonsense.
	That's an absolute fact.
	Fact that the NHS... Guess what?
	When I'm poorly, Ahmed, guess who delivered my baby, my baby daughter, and I was bleeding?
	It was Mohammed, actually.
	He was called Dr. Mohammed.
	Absolutely brilliant.
	Saved my life.
	I want them to come over and contribute to our NHS and our, you know... How would you have a waiter, a driver, a taxi driver?
	That's Ahmed.
	That's Mohammed.
	They're doing all these jobs that we... Do you think we didn't have these things before he arrived?
	Well, I've never seen... No, I'm really... Okay, okay, no, no, but this speaks to much more... Actually, no, actually, Britain... Listen, Colin, I think you have to accept, you have to accept...
	We had waiters back then, but they're not going to do the jobs anymore.
	John up in Newcastle isn't going to do that job because he wants more than £10,000.
	If you go to an English town, you'll get an English waiter.
	Yeah.
	No, actually, I don't think you will.
	I think you'll get Ahmed.
	I think you'll get Ahmed.
	Should I tell you why?
	Because they think we're not going to bother being a waiter for 12, 15, 16 hours a day because guess what?
	We'll get it for the benefit system.
	It's Ahmed that's keeping up.
	Hang on, let's stop.
	He's popping up.
	Hang on, hang on.
	Hang on, right, so what we've done is we've made up a narrative of what's in the mind of the average British person and they are bad, lazy... I didn't say that!
	Yeah, you said that!
	Yeah, but this is the characterization I would take, right?
	You said that about Ahmed!
	You said Ahmed's a slobbering lady in a house, he's been given a house by... Hang on, hang on, right?
	And so, like, if a restaurant opens in a city that's in a town that's like 95% English, for some reason we won't get British wages.
	Well, since Brexit, oh my God, you think you've got your British workers in Costa Coffee and they can't serve a coffee fast enough?
	But all immigrants are all hardworking, industrious and just want to contribute to prop up the NHS.
	Again, stop.
	We've narrowed it.
	We've literally compressed millions of people down to two things, right?
	So how does your narrative account for the fact that 47% of social housing in London goes to immigrants?
	How are they hardworking?
	How are they propping up the NHS?
	Because you've just taken one city out of an entire country and given me... I mean, we can go through... Birmingham is a good example, where it's a city with high immigration and really really poor economic engagement.
	But that speaks to the character of those people.
	But you, what you keep failing to do, and I understand, because look, we're both somewhere in the middle, we're meeting here, because you're saying actually, actually, you're saying Ahmed doesn't bring anything, I'm saying John Smith, but you've also agreed with that, and I've also, and I'm, where I think you're coming from is that you need me to agree that actually there are some Immigrants who are lazy.
	Yes.
	Of course.
	Right.
	Because that wouldn't be human if they weren't.
	I would be stupid.
	That would make me stupid if I didn't agree.
	Actually, there are some immigrants.
	But notice your narrative compresses them all into one group.
	But so did yours, because you put Ahmed, all brown people into one group as well.
	You didn't actually, you did the same call.
	You're as guilty as me.
	I appreciate that I am in this discussion.
	You did that and I did that.
	We're both in our little narrative there.
	So let's now get back into a more three-dimensional view.
	And we can ask, for example, what right does someone who's born outside of the UK have a priori, in advance, to benefits in the United Kingdom?
	But they don't?
	There we go.
	But they don't?
	They're not coming over?
	Hang on.
	You say that, but 47% of London... So you think that Ahmed is coming over and he's signing straight on?
	Is that what you actually believe?
	Some, but not all.
	Not the majority.
	Sure, but it should be zero.
	Right, it should be zero.
	That's impossible.
	Why?
	And they're actually not coming over.
	Why is it possible?
	Because Ahmed can't come over unless he's got a work visa.
	He can't come over and just sit on his bum.
	Yeah, but we've already talked about this.
	This country doesn't allow that.
	We absolutely do allow that.
	We don't allow that.
	We absolutely do.
	We allow our own to do that because obviously we can't change that, like you said.
	But that's not true.
	Like, for example, I mean, you can't book the hotel.
	Hang on, you can't book the hotel that's just over there.
	Yeah.
	Because it's full of Ahmeds.
	Who are getting government money.
	That's because of the processing of coal.
	That's not their fault.
	Have you ever spoken to any of them?
	They deliberately chose to break in.
	They didn't break into the country.
	These people are actually fleeing for their life.
	No they're not.
	They want to work.
	The term refugee should exclude men.
	They're the ones who come and work.
	They shouldn't be able to be refugees.
	Shall I tell you what?
	When my dad and uncles and everyone came over, it was ten men that all came over first.
	My mum and my aunties all came about three, four years after that.
	So the men come over because they set up.
	They set up, they do the work because my mum was at home with my brother, my elder brother, and then she came over and then my other brother was born about eight years after because that was the gap that they had to come over, work, get a house.
	And you know, get some money in and then bring them over.
	So the 47% on social housing haven't done that?
	But that's, but I don't know.
	No, no, because this is the thing, right?
	I agree that someone... 47% of housing, but then let's look at the 40% of housing or the percentage of housing, say, in Newcastle or Scotland, which is full of white people who are getting the housing.
	And I don't like that, but I want to address this thing, right?
	Because at least being British born does give you, before the event, claim to British benefits, right?
	Okay.
	But shall I tell you why?
	Okay.
	Okay.
	I understand your point.
	And if I go to Ahmed's country, I've got no claim to his benefits.
	I get it.
	I get it.
	But guess what?
	Your country does go over to a country where Ahmed's from and throw bombs and indirectly or directly get involved in wars, which every single war in the world.
	Britain has never gone to war with anyone, but guess what?
	Britain has gone to war with everyone.
	They haven't gone, they've barely done anything.
	India have never, ever invaded other countries.
	Britain will go around, and if you're going to go around dropping bombs... I'm not saying that India... No, no, no, let me finish, it matters a lot.
	Because if Britain, with the history of their involvement in wars that have got nothing to do with them, if you're going to throw around bombs, indirectly or directly, So we have to give the benefits.
	Well, guess what?
	Yeah, you do actually, because I'll tell you why.
	Because you've displaced thousands and hundreds of thousands of people who then need to live somewhere.
	So guess what?
	Let them come here.
	Because if you're going to throw bombs and if you're going to make money out of throwing those bombs, then guess what?
	You will have to look after these people.
	Because that's part and parcel.
	That's only fair.
	It's not a punishment.
	You've punished them by killing them, by killing their ancestors, by killing their people.
	And by the way, their homes have gone, their infrastructure's gone, they've got no hospitals, they've got no this, and then they're in refugee camps.
	Where do you want them to go, Carl, if this country threw bombs on them?
	Well, I don't agree that this country did just throw bombs on them.
	Really?
	Iraq?
	I don't agree.
	Iraq?
	Yeah, sure, in Iraq.
	Right, well, sure.
	But most of our refugees aren't from Iraq.
	They killed 500,000 people were killed in Iraq.
	Why are most of our refugees Albanian?
	Because you didn't have a return to agreement because you came out of Brexit.
	Now you've just gone on a different Tandania because the fact is, if this country... The point is they're not refugees, are they?
	If they're living in a refugee camp because this country was involved in wars.
	Albania is where we get most of the refugees across the Channel.
	But they're not refugees.
	So we're being mugged.
	You were, but you've got a returns agreement now with Albania and that's dropped now.
	There's no such thing as an Albanian refugee.
	Well, no, actually, there's a lot of corruption in the government.
	It doesn't matter.
	That doesn't give you status as a refugee.
	Well, look, it doesn't matter.
	Lots of governments are corrupt.
	Our government's corrupt.
	Why flee here?
	You're not a refugee for corruption.
	There's no war in Albania.
	These people are not refugees.
	We're being mugged.
	No, but you've had a returns agreement put in place.
	Does Albania have a single Albanian?
	Yes, but you have got the Albanians.
	You've got people coming over.
	And if you've been mugged by that much percentage, as you say, you've been mugged.
	Now, these Albanians, as you say, come over.
	Are they all sat on their bums at home or are they working?
	You don't know the exact figures.
	But there's British people dealing drugs.
	Why do we need Albanians dealing drugs as well?
	It's competition for our good old British drug dealers.
	Best for Britain!
	They're taking money out of the hard working hands of our British rugby players.
	You're looking at immigrants as all bad.
	And you're saying to me I'm looking at them as all good.
	And we need to meet somewhere in the middle.
	I'm not saying immigrants are all bad.
	I'm giving specific examples.
	I mean, the Albanian illegals are a great example, because there's just no legitimacy to an Albanian refugee.
	Well, no, actually, because it's not... I mean, I don't know too much about that one.
	It's not because some of them are gay.
	There's a big problem there, and I think they get... No, Albania is a safe country.
	The British government doesn't warn you.
	And I think they're a bit scared and then there came a... Yeah, but that doesn't make you a refugee.
	But the problem with that... Look, the problem with all of that is... Stop blaming the Albanian, yeah?
	They took advantage... Okay, they took advantage of the system.
	I mean, they're literally people trafficking drugs money.
	Right, so look... Yeah, I'm going to blame them.
	No, the blame is with your government who didn't process claims.
	Why can't I blame the people that did it?
	No, well, you can't blame that as well, but actually, ultimately, where does the book lie?
	Oh yeah, I agree.
	The book stops with the government because they're not processing claims, they haven't put money in the Home Office.
	And I'm sure that if you watch more of our podcast, you'd see us going, well, the government's just betraying us.
	I have, and I have seen that, and that's why I said, actually, I've watched a few of them, and there's a lot of it I agree with, because you've got a point.
	Because you are right there, but the thing is, we're also just facilitating bad people to take advantage of us.
	We're just opening the door and saying, look, come and take advantage.
	We've also got very good people.
	And by the very notion of, you know, you're tarring them all with the same brush and it's so dangerous because actually there's a lot of good people and they work hard.
	And, you know, I was listening to LBC and there was one, one of the guys sat in the hotel and he said, I want to work so much and I'm not being allowed to work.
	I'm desperate to work.
	I've got six pence or something and he's like, I can't get, I'm starving.
	I want to get out.
	I want to work.
	These people want to work and contribute.
	They want to be British.
	They want to be, they do.
	It sounds like they want to take advantage of our economic situation.
	No, what economic situation?
	There we go.
	Right.
	So they don't want to take advantage.
	You know this thing that we're British, they're here because we're so...
	I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.
	We can't, and you're saying they want to get a year for free healthcare.
	We can't get any healthcare.
	No one can get any healthcare.
	Yeah, but it's because there's so many people on the waiting list.
	No, because, yes, there is so many people on the waiting list because the government have underfunded the NHS.
	Yes, they haven't.
	The NHS funding has always just gone up.
	No, listen, the government have catastrophically underfunded every public service in this country.
	The government doesn't have money, that's my money.
	In this country.
	Yeah, it's my money too.
	So why do you want it to go to someone who's just arrived?
	I wanted to go to everyone.
	Why?
	I wanted to go to people who work in this country.
	I didn't want to go to you.
	You worked for it.
	Well, look, when you say I wanted to go to me.
	It's your money.
	Yes, but I wanted to go to everyone.
	That's why you put it in the pot.
	No, but screw the pot.
	If I wanted to stay in my pocket, you know, I wouldn't give it to them.
	It's a legal thing.
	We've got to put our money into the pot because that goes to people who are less better off than us.
	Okay, so hang on.
	Why do you pay your taxes?
	Because otherwise I'll go to jail, right?
	Right, but then exactly, so it's a legal requirement.
	We have to do that.
	But the point of a democratic government is we get to decide what kind of country we want to live in, right?
	I don't want your money going to someone who is not from this country and claiming benefits and living in social housing in London, right?
	That's not fair to you.
	But that's not fair.
	But my money, our money that goes into this pot, it's not all going to them.
	It's going across the board.
	No, but none of it should go to them.
	None of it should go to them.
	Well, you're talking about, we're arguing over 0.1% of people sat in one house in London.
	No, it's not.
	It's half of London.
	Oh, but we're talking about the whole of Britain, the whole of Britain takes from this pot.
	Yeah, but that's 25% of social housing in Britain is for immigrants.
	But you're going on that point again and again.
	Because it really matters.
	We need to talk about the whole of Britain and the pot of money.
	The pot of money.
	Why?
	Why do we need to?
	Because that's just a tiny percentage.
	It's not tiny.
	The majority of our taxes are to go for the infrastructure across the entire country.
	It doesn't just go to London.
	I'm not arguing that it's infrastructure.
	And what was the point I was saying before?
	I've forgotten my point because it was really good.
	I'm sure it was good.
	I've actually forgotten my point.
	The thing is, I just don't understand why you are prepared to concede that people whose ancestors never did anything to contribute to this country, people themselves, We know they didn't, because they're from somewhere else.
	They can't have done.
	But my ancestors did.
	Yeah, I know.
	That's why you're here.
	Yeah, but then who says theirs didn't?
	Because they didn't come here.
	Are you talking about the Albanians?
	Well, Albanians.
	It could be someone from Syria.
	It could be wherever, right?
	But you bombed Syria.
	You helped in wars there.
	So you've displaced people.
	So where are they going to go, Karl?
	I think it was justified to bomb ISIS.
	But still, you've displaced innocent people, right?
	And then you say, actually, you can't come over here then.
	But you hunt wars there.
	That's not the question.
	You don't have an answer for that.
	Because the fact is they're displaced because of our country's involvement.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	These things are all really complicated issues and I don't think we'll be able to have the time.
	Yeah, correct.
	They are too complicated.
	So that doesn't matter either, because the question is, someone whose family has had no input building Britain, who has personally never done anything for Britain, can at the moment come over and take money out of the British Exchequer, which is at the cost, not the government, but the British taxpayer.
	For example, give me an example of that.
	47% of London's social housing is immigrants.
	So you're saying that they've come over and they immediately... But they're asylum seekers aren't they?
	They're not refugees.
	These are legal immigrants to this country who are getting, they're dependents obviously, who are getting social housing in Britain.
	That is just not acceptable.
	They don't have a right to it.
	They don't deserve it.
	And they're taking advantage of us by doing it.
	That should be off the table.
	And that's for you and me, because in this case, you're not like a brown person.
	I'm not a white person.
	We are both British people who pay taxes and we're being screwed by the state.
	I think I'm being screwed by the state in lots of other ways, and that really isn't a concern for me.
	Why?
	That really isn't the biggest concern on my list.
	Why?
	The amount of tax you pay?
	Well, no, that is a concern.
	It bothers me.
	Of course it does.
	It bothers people about the amount of tax they've got to pay.
	But there's people who go through, you know, self-employed people who tax loopholes.
	Very, very rich people aren't paying enough tax.
	Corporation tax, as we talked about in the Green Room.
	There's many on that list.
	But Ahmed has come over and got a house, that's really not on the top of my list because this country's got so many problems.
	Yeah, but these problems all basically stem from the problem of too many people being here.
	But then when you're saying too many people who are being here and who are here, we also have a low birth rate in this country.
	Okay, but hang on, hang on, and that's fine and I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice the pension.
	Really?
	So I'm not cool with that?
	The NHS?
	You know who's the virgin on the NHS?
	It's Carol the elderly.
	That's the biggest virgin.
	Not your migrants.
	That's a fact.
	The biggest virgin, that is completely true.
	The biggest virgin on our taxes is Carol the elderly in NHS.
	Not your 23 year old acmed.
	He's not goosing a doctor.
	He's not going to the hospital.
	It's your elderly that is going to the hospital.
	And he's brought his mum over.
	Yes, but what's he supposed to do?
	Leave his mum at home?
	Yes, she shouldn't be here.
	No, but you just want to use Ackerman for his work.
	I personally don't.
	I would rather Ackerman stay in his country and build his country.
	But he can't because you'll bomb them.
	No, that's not true.
	Right, so then Ackerman's got to come over.
	We're not just carpet bombing the world.
	People exist outside of Britain and they live quite good lives sometimes.
	Britain gets involved everywhere else.
	That's not true.
	They really do.
	And Ackerman's got nowhere to live.
	He has to bring his wife and kids over.
	He's grown up in this other country.
	Of course he has somewhere else.
	No, he's 23.
	He wants to make better of his life because his own country was bombed.
	So he's come over.
	Even if he wants to make better of his life, what's wrong with that?
	The problem is it's too much of a burden on the native British, right?
	Native British?
	I'm native British, not a burden on me.
	You're Punjabi.
	I'm a native British.
	Native refers to a group, not an individual.
	But I'm British.
	It's all a burden on me.
	There you go.
	They're not a burden on me.
	I'm a taxpayer.
	My parents are taxpayers.
	My grandparents are taxpayers.
	Not a burden on us.
	There's a lot of burdens.
	Statistically, it was a burden, right?
	Your taxes went to pay for these people.
	It pays for a lot of people.
	Our taxes pay for everybody.
	I'm totally against getting the Karens off the council estate.
	There you go.
	The Chavs should never have come into existence.
	I'm obviously against all that.
	Right, but the thing is... But the system multi-worked against them.
	I don't want to be against Karen either.
	Why?
	I don't want to be against... She shouldn't be given money for pumping out a kid.
	But then the system worked against it because that's working class.
	You know what I think?
	No, that's not working class.
	Hang on, these are not working class.
	These are the underclass.
	That's the problem.
	Working class aren't just... Sorry, underclass?
	What's underclass?
	Do you mean people who are on benefits?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Right, but this is where I think we could get somewhere.
	Because I don't think things are down to black, brown or white.
	I think it's all about class.
	And I think, I really think that underclass are never, I feel so, you know, I grew up in Newcastle.
	I grew up in council estates.
	That's where my dad's shop was, was in these council estates.
	I grew up in that.
	They're not helped.
	They're not given advantages in life that, you know, and you were right in the Green Room because I wasn't given those advantages.
	I still had to work hard and knew what I had to do.
	Right.
	But that was my background.
	I come from an Indian background where you're going to have to make something of your life.
	So the thing is, a lot of the reason I think you're so staunchly against any of the things I'm saying...
	Is because you're worried that something I'll say will mean that you are on the outside because of the colour of your skin.
	But I am on the outside.
	Are you though?
	Yeah, Karl, I am.
	You don't feel on the outside when I'm talking to you.
	That's what people say.
	Yeah, but I am on the outside.
	I've never been accepted.
	I know that Twitter thing that we had where you said, I'm not from Pakistan.
	I was being sarcastic because people say you're from Pakistan.
	I'm from, my parents are from the Punjab and I grew up in Newcastle.
	I've never been accepted because you know the only place I've ever felt accepted and you've bought it up quite a lot London.
	I don't feel the colour of my skin in London.
	It's so multicultural.
	You can be what you want to be but anywhere else in this country I feel the colour of my skin and I don't want to feel it.
	Do you not think I want to be like I want to be a proud Brit and I'm not allowed to be a proud Brit.
	By people telling me every day, you're not British.
	So then I think, well, then I'm not British.
	Do you think if you took a pro-British position, then people would be happy to accept you as a proud Brit?
	I tried that my whole life.
	I tried to be, you know, I love British music.
	I love British.
	I love British culture.
	You can tell the way I am.
	I love going out.
	I love going clubs.
	I love going bars.
	I love karaoke.
	I love British music more than anything.
	I've tried.
	I'm still never going to be accepted.
	And you know what makes me really sad?
	I can deal with that.
	I'm 51 years old.
	My son's never going to be accepted.
	My daughter's never going to be accepted just because they're brown.
	They're never, they really are not truly going to be accepted.
	They're always going to be the P word.
	Not by everybody.
	I can't say, because you know what I think about, you know what I really feel about British people?
	They're tolerant.
	They actually have, you know, no, honestly.
	They don't accept me as British, but they're very tolerant.
	But they go, I don't know.
	You see, this is what I get, because I think it's 50-50.
	My parents came over to this country and people are like, They love the Queen.
	My mum and dad were obsessed with the royal family.
	Like I remember with my mum going to queue up to see Prince Charles and Princess Diana.
	Oh my God, the obsession with Princess Diana and Prince Charles.
	I was so tired of it, man.
	Oh no, I'm not.
	Oh gosh, I'm a, you know, and they were royalists.
	And I remember Christmas day, they'd have a Christmas dinner and they'd put the Queen's speech on and they were, you know, and my dad used to say, my mum used to say, we're in their country.
	They let us build our temples.
	That's a good thing.
	They, you know.
	Right.
	Right.
	And my judges said, "Let us build our temples, we could pray in our temples." Who's they?
	The British.
	Right.
	Exactly, right.
	And so he is recognizing himself as an Indian.
	Because he was.
	He wasn't born in Britain.
	Of course.
	But he's saying, I'm part of an ethnic group and I've been given dispensation to live and work and build temples here.
	So that, what he's doing is showing recognition to the English, because I assume he's in England.
	So he's recognizing that the English have the claim to England.
	Right.
	Yes.
	Right.
	The English have the claim to England in the same way that I, as an Englishman, say, well, the Indians and the Punjabis have the claim to Punjab, right?
	And that I would see.
	And we say the Palestinians have the claim to Palestine.
	Right.
	Right.
	Definitely, let's not go down that route.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, shouldn't have brought that up.
	But this is all fine, because what this means is that we situate ourselves within the framework of being an ethnicity, right?
	So we are saying, I am an Englishman, you are a Punjabi or an Indian, however you want to characterise yourself.
	And there is a relationship Yes.
	that is occurring.
	Right.
	And so it's not just an abstract category, brown and black and white or whatever.
	Yes.
	It is a people that have a reason to have a conversation with each other, have a relationship with them.
	And this, so I grew up in a military family, right?
	And one of the things that my dad liked were the Gurkhas.
	Yeah.
	They'd served the British Amherst.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	And so we had, like on the camps that I grew up on, there was always like the Gurkha Regiment.
	My great respect for them, because it's not because they're brown, you know, it's not because... Fantastic.
	Yeah, exactly.
	It's because they're loyal.
	Well, the Punjabi soldiers, they're known as warriors.
	Yeah, the Sikhs were the same.
	Yes, yes.
	And so this is why I think a lot of people feel kind of driven to madness by the way you approach these things, because If it was more the idea that, like, there was a relationship between... it seeks an okay characterization.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	The Sikhs and the British, like then suddenly there's a reason that we should show each other dignity and respect.
	Correct.
	But the Brits didn't, you know, Sikh soldiers have only been given recognition in the past, what, five years?
	Yeah, I know.
	I know.
	And Joanna Lumley with the Gurkhas and stuff like that.
	And it drives me mad as well.
	Right.
	So that's what drives us mad.
	Yeah, I totally understand it.
	I totally understand it.
	But that comes from a particular historical circumstance, right?
	Where one group of people recognizes another group of people, and they have what we could call a friendship that links them, right?
	But there are loads of people who we don't have friendship with, who are taking advantage of us.
	And like, let's use the example of the Albanians, right?
	They are, honestly, the ones that are coming up, they're all criminals.
	They're all criminals.
	They're all liars.
	This is not a friendship like the English and the Sikhs have.
	Like the English and the Sikhs are respectable.
	Okay.
	No, they're not though, because your point's not making sense.
	And I understand you have got respect there and I've got respect, but actually the common man on the street doesn't have respect.
	They don't know I'm a Sikh.
	They don't know and they don't care.
	And I wish they did know and I wish they did care and they don't.
	Because what he thinks, he doesn't know, but he also recognises that there are groups of people... And Albanian is white, so they've actually got an advantage over me and they've never even contributed anything.
	And I agree, and I'm not saying it's just.
	But the problem is, the reason that can come into being is because what the average sort of, you know, uneducated, you know, Englishman, who doesn't know anything about these things, He's, you know, very parochial in his house, in his village.
	He can tell that a bunch of Muslims have groomed his daughter, right?
	No, no, but listen, he knows that there is a group of people who are historically situated and identify themselves.
	And these, a lot of this is very racial, these grooming gangs, right?
	Who hate the English, who don't like us, who don't have the same relationship.
	Who's that?
	Well, the Muslim grooming gang.
	Not all of them.
	Hang on, I'm not saying all.
	Yeah.
	I'm saying there are a particular... Because we can't put all Muslims into... I'm not saying all.
	Yeah.
	And I'm just trying to characterize what this guy thinks, right?
	So in, in his world, there is a group of people hostile to him.
	And it's not just the grooming guys, like it's gangs, but there's racial violence against the English.
	There's a genuine hostility.
	I can go into it with you another time.
	I mean, the worst thing I saw was a BBC report in like 2011 of this just old English family who were getting bricks through the windows from Muslim lads.
	Just because they wanted them out of their area.
	It doesn't matter.
	The point, I'm not saying it's just, I'm not, you know, what I'm saying is these things happen, right?
	It's ethnic conflict.
	Whereas like, it's not Sikhs putting bricks through the windows of English people.
	Because of a historical friendship between the English and the Sikhs.
	Now, Gurkha's doing it because of a respect and a recognition we give each other.
	But there are groups that don't have this respect and recognition doing this to the English.
	And I'm not going to say that... Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	I know you do.
	I know, I know.
	I'm not saying that the English people who are like, OK, well, there's not much difference genetically, say, between a Pakistani and an Indian in northwest India.
	There's no difference.
	You couldn't tell.
	Exactly.
	So all they're seeing is, oh, that looks like the person or the kind of people who have done this to other people I know.
	I have to be wary of them.
	I have to be afraid of them because there's a danger there.
	And that's where it's coming from.
	So if they knew that actually, if the only people who looked like you in this country were the respectable Sikhs, Who didn't do anything wrong, they'd have no reason to be like, oh, I hate the Browns, right?
	Because they're afraid of something that has happened to them.
	But so are Brown people.
	I'm not saying they're not.
	I'm not saying they're not, right?
	I'm not saying that.
	Those cases are very rare, Cor.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.
	It's not about, it's not about making excuses.
	I'm just trying to explain to you why these things are happening, right?
	If the government had been more discerning with who it allows into the country, if they'd taken this kind of relational perspective, because there are definitely countries where we could have quite a few people in and it would be no problem, and we know this, but there are also countries where we can't.
	When you say the country had been a little bit more...
	We talked about this in the green room about good and bad people generally, right?
	So you could let in all the Sikhs, yeah, because actually we've got that relationship.
	I know some really horrible Sikh people.
	I know some really horrible white people.
	I know some really horrible Muslim people.
	I know some really good Muslim people.
	I know some really good Sikhs.
	Same here.
	I know so many good white people.
	My life, like, my friendship groups are white people.
	There's good and bad across the board.
	How do we determine?
	Well, you're a good person, you're a bad person.
	There are definitely ways.
	How?
	So, for example, sympathy for terrorist groups is a good start.
	Who?
	Sympathy for terrorist groups.
	Tell me about this sympathy for terrorist groups.
	Yeah, sure.
	There's loads of examples.
	I mean, the Shemima Begum thing.
	We can talk about that, actually.
	I've got a feeling we need about seven hours to cover all the topics we need to.
	Quite possibly.
	Shemima Begum was groomed It doesn't matter.
	Okay.
	There is... Nobody's got sympathy for ISIS.
	Who's got sympathy for ISIS?
	Well, more British Muslims joined ISIS than the British army.
	That really tells you something about that community, right?
	That's a common, widespread... And then when you actually start polling British Muslims, their opinions are abominable.
	Really?
	Like how?
	Well, like half of them think that homosexuality should be banned.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But hang on, homophobia in Britain with English people, they're also very homophobic.
	I don't know if they are.
	I think they're very tolerant.
	Gay laws only, this country, we only got gay vicar, sorry, women vicars recently and gay laws only just got passed.
	Gay men could only get married when?
	Four, five years ago?
	And they don't take advantage of it.
	But gay men don't get married.
	Right.
	But still, the law was only just passed four or five years ago.
	So therefore we're not tolerant.
	That's neither here or there.
	The fact is, because it goes back to your well, actually, Muslim views are intolerant of gay people.
	So is this country.
	No, but I don't think that gay people should be banned from existing.
	Right, obviously.
	I think marriage should be between a man and a woman because being gay is not the same as being heterosexual.
	And it's to honour the differences.
	But that's what Muslim people say.
	That's the same what they're saying, aren't they?
	What are they saying?
	They think it's an abomination against God.
	Yeah, but then they may think that, and your Bible may think that.
	I'm not Christian.
	I'm just saying, your Bible may say that, my Bible may say that, whatever, etc, etc.
	But the fact is, they may think they're an abomination, but they're not going to run killing them.
	Yeah!
	Yeah, they are.
	Like, do you not remember the Redding stabbing?
	Three gay guys got stabbed by an asylum seeker.
	Yeah, but then there's about, do you not remember the guy, the black guy that got stabbed by the three white boys?
	We could talk about that all day long, Karl.
	I'm not saying, I'm not saying there isn't litany of gruesome in all sides.
	What I'm saying is, there are certain... Let's go back to what you're saying.
	Yeah, but there are certain shared attitudes in some communities.
	Right.
	And some communities have got a very antipathetical attitude towards Britain.
	And some have got a rather pro-British accent.
	As in they have an animus against it?
	You know, I lived a long time in Leicester, and as you know, there's a huge Gujarati community there, there's a huge Muslim community there, as you saw with the fight that they had, was it last summer now?
	And I'm not saying all Muslims are the same either.
	Of course, and I know you're not, by the way.
	And I know most of your viewers aren't saying that either, because they're just upset about things that are going wrong in this country.
	But when I lived in Leicester, I don't know, 12, 13 years, and Muslim groups, Gujarati groups, Sikh groups, they all loved being British.
	They loved being in this country.
	And it wasn't for the benefits.
	They've all got businesses.
	They're all working hard.
	They're enjoying their life.
	I don't see any animosity.
	I have that because I look at things and I look at, hang on, look what this country did in India, look what they did with slavery, look what they did with, you know, the royal families, links to that.
	Because I look at things very differently.
	They love being here.
	They love being in this country and working hard and enjoying the freedoms that you all say that we have.
	So when you're saying that they've got animosity, I don't see that.
	There are definitely groups who do.
	I'm saying they probably do exist.
	It's easy to not have animosity against the native British if you're not really surrounded by them, right?
	Because this is another problem.
	Oh, okay, right.
	Because they're not surrounded by them, yeah.
	Yeah, this is another problem, which is the ethnic displacement of the English from their own cities.
	That's really unfair.
	Let's talk about that.
	It shouldn't be that London is 37% English.
	It shouldn't be that Birmingham is 41%.
	When you say English, are you meaning English.
	As in white people?
	As in English people.
	People who were right on the census, I'm in English.
	But they want to move out.
	I know lots of people who want to move out.
	But they feel forced out.
	I don't think they feel forced out.
	But I know they do.
	I know Well, then I could say no, because I've got English friends who live in the countryside and actually they didn't just want to be around ethnic minorities.
	We could say that's racism.
	We could say, actually, that's why the countryside gets accused of racism is because actually, oh, there's two brown people moved in down the street.
	Oh, there's a black family from Somalia moved down the street.
	We're moving to the countryside and they can afford and they can afford to move to the countryside and they want to be away from multiculturalism.
	Why should they?
	They can.
	They can.
	There's no problem.
	I think they can.
	But why should they be?
	Why shouldn't the English Be able to live in Birmingham and Leicester in a mostly English city.
	Well, shall I tell you why?
	Because they're not doing the jobs that need to keep that city alive.
	I don't agree.
	What's proper of that city is the immigrants coming in and doing the jobs that they want.
	So they can take their money and they can go to the countryside and live mortgage free.
	That could be true.
	It could be, but I don't think it is true.
	But we don't know!
	We do know.
	We don't know.
	There's lots of information.
	English people are being displaced, forced, like against their will to go to the countryside.
	I don't believe that at all.
	That's just not true.
	It's totally true.
	That's choice.
	They don't want to be around brown or black people and they want to go to the countryside and live this, you know, Caucasian life of Britishness.
	They want to feel like they live in England.
	Well, not all of them do that, by the way.
	I'm not saying all of them.
	Some people love it.
	Some people love it.
	Some people do, but most people don't, which is why you get what they call white flight.
	What's white flying?
	Oh, I haven't heard of that.
	White flight?
	Yeah, when the diversity starts moving to an area, people move out because they're uncomfortable with the cultural practices and the difference.
	Now, it's Okay, and you're saying why should they accept it?
	Yeah, why should that have to happen to them?
	And most British people do.
	A lot of people do accept that.
	But the only reason you've got is economic.
	Right?
	Well, that's not moral, right?
	So you could do lots of things... But moral isn't going to pay the country's bills.
	Well... And the economy is going to pay the country's bills.
	That was literally the argument of the slavers, right?
	So that's literally, they were like, well, you know, that's going to be loads of money you lose.
	You can't compare slavery to the economic migrants coming in, working in this country.
	Well, you can in Leicester, for example, which was the largest.
	They're all working.
	I agree because they're all working the buses.
	Did you not see anything about slavery in Leicester East?
	about the the slavery in Lester East when you say slavery you mean they were getting people over from India say and paying them no no not well like literally taking the passports forcing them to work in the textile factory there was something like 10,000 modern day slaves in Lester East but that's wrong What makes me laugh is, shall I tell you what makes me laugh, Carl?
	You sit there, and I'm not just talking to you.
	You know what, Carl picked me up from the train station as well.
	You've all been so lovely.
	I've tried to be.
	No, you all.
	Everyone's been fantastic here.
	But you sit there and talk about, on your moral high horse, and talk about morals, right?
	When you've got a history littered with slavery, looting, theft, killing, and I'm sitting here saying, how dare you?
	What's the audacity of you talking to me about possible slavery in Leicester with the Asian communities?
	When you've got a history of it, you made up, you made the word slavery.
	You made the word looting and thieving.
	And your museums are full of stolen artifacts.
	And you're sitting there talking to me about slavery.
	All of it's stolen.
	If you want to go down the museum route, my God!
	No, that's a really easy one to go through.
	I love how you've got your little mug of tea.
	I could do with a cup of tea now.
	Sorry, yeah, I should have got you one.
	I got water, Paul got tea.
	Take literally every Egyptian artifact that we have in the British Museum.
	They weren't possessed by the Egyptians.
	They were under like, you know, five meters of sand.
	But Kohinoor was the Indian diamond and you took that and you won't give it back!
	Yeah, but who did we take that from?
	You took it from India!
	No, we didn't!
	We took it from an Afghan warlord.
	Oh, you don't know your history, eh?
	Who said you didn't take it from the Afghan lord?
	You took it from a 10-year-old prince, Dilip Singh.
	10-year-old!
	You imprisoned his mother!
	I don't know.
	If you don't give us that, we're not going to let your mother out.
	That's what the Brits did.
	They stole scandalously, corruptly, whatever they did in India.
	And a lot of people say, from the mountains in India.
	It didn't come from Afghan.
	I don't know.
	The Afghans have a claim to it as well.
	They make the claim.
	No, that's just myth.
	The fact is, the Afghan, that is true because it was founded in the mountains in Udaipur, so it's in the mountains in India.
	It belongs to India.
	We know this.
	But that doesn't matter.
	That's one example.
	All of the Egyptian stuff, all of the stuff from Iraq, it was under 10 metres of sand.
	I love the way the British just make these up.
	You make your own history up.
	No, but this is what happened.
	No!
	You make your own laws up that you've got to keep these.
	You man-made these laws.
	You man-made these laws that actually will make law that our museums are unable to ever give these artefacts back because it's against the law now.
	But it's also against international law to keep artefacts that belong to the country of origin.
	That's also against the law.
	Yeah, but if the country of origin doesn't even know they're there.
	They do!
	It belongs to them.
	It belongs to them.
	But that's a Western concept.
	The Brits need to give back.
	That's a Western imperial concept.
	What the Brits are very good at is taking off other countries.
	Taking, taking, taking.
	Bombing, bombing, bombing.
	And then saying, we're not having you.
	We don't want you.
	Oh God, you've did this to us.
	Oh, you're taking from us.
	But guess what?
	You took a lot from the rest of the world and maybe it's time the world took back now.
	So it's about an accounting.
	Well, no, I'm saying maybe, maybe.
	What's your problem with that?
	You're not alone.
	If you agree, no, I'm not saying that's not my fault because I actually work and pay my taxes.
	Yeah, I know you do.
	Right?
	We work damn hard.
	My husband and my family.
	I know, which is why I find it strange that you're on the side of the futures.
	I get what you're saying because I don't, I'm also, because I get very centrist, so I can also be very right wing.
	Sure, well that's good, you should be.
	Oh I can be because growing up in the corner shop, you know, even during COVID when I'd go back and help the family, I've done that quite a lot.
	You see them coming in and they're on benefit, they're not working and you get angry because you think, we're working 16 hours a day!
	We're waking up at 5 o'clock in the morning and shutting shop at 10 because we've got to compete with supermarkets and you're coming in on payday and you're buying This is no word of a lie.
	Three bottles of wine a day, 40 cigarettes a day and 10 lottery cards, scratch cards.
	And that should not be facilitated.
	They're all coming up and that's what they're doing.
	And you're working in the shop all the hours God sends, making barely profit, paying your taxes.
	And I do not want that to happen.
	That's happening.
	I know, I know, but that's the problem, isn't it?
	Like, it's like, okay, so if we've got like a percentage of people who are doing it Am I getting some tea?
	Oh, aren't they kind?
	Oh, John, so lovely, the tea.
	Well, take it around, Pete.
	I don't want it.
	What's your name, sorry?
	Pete.
	Pete is Pete.
	If you just bring it here, then I'll make it myself, obviously.
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you, Pete.
	Thank you.
	So nice.
	You're too kind, Pete.
	Because John said it was going to get warm in here.
	John, it didn't get warm in here.
	Thank you.
	The point being though.
	Yeah.
	It definitely seems to the average person in this country.
	And that shop in Newcastle, by the way, that's not economic migrants or brown or black people coming in buying that.
	I'm not saying it is.
	It's your very own people.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And trust me, you don't want to know my opinion on lazy British people.
	Right.
	I am very, I'd abolish the wealth estate.
	Tomorrow.
	But then if you, if you wanted to abolish the welfare state, and I sometimes believe that sometimes as well, then what about... Get a job.
	That's what they'll do.
	They'll get married.
	They'll get jobs.
	They'll be forced to do these things.
	I agree.
	I agree on that actually.
	And we should not have had this light hand.
	We should have been like, no, you are going to do this.
	This isn't a choice.
	You're going to do it.
	But I think that actually foreigners have a better work ethic.
	They have a much harder work ethic.
	The Newcastle?
	No, no, don't say Newcastle, because the New Geordies are going to come down on me.
	Do you not want that?
	I'm talking about people on benefits generally, whether they're from Manchester, whether they're from Newcastle, whether they're from You know what's interesting is when you were saying, well, the British people don't want to do these jobs.
	It's like, I don't.
	I know.
	And I agree.
	I don't.
	There are definitely going to be British people who don't want to do this.
	Right.
	But why are they able to not do these jobs?
	Because they get benefits.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So if we cut the benefits, then they will do these jobs.
	Then the need for immigration goes away.
	It's not need for, no, no, no.
	Okay.
	Let's say we do your system and we cut benefits and we get rid of all of that.
	Do you really think that Karen from Scunthorpe is going to clean someone's bum in a care home still?
	On £10.53.
	Because she'll be there, like, I need a cigarette.
	God!
	And she'll get to the point where she's like, fine, I'll work in the care home so I can get my cigarettes.
	Necessity is the mother of all.
	OK, fine.
	You're right, because you will.
	You will have to work.
	My God, I'd have to do that.
	Let's say I couldn't do this or that.
	I've got to feed my kids.
	I would have to do whatever job comes along.
	And my parents did.
	They did whatever job they could because they had mouse disease and we had to pay taxes and do what we could for what we need to do legally.
	Right.
	But then you are punishing those who are ill and poorly and old and who can't work.
	Then how do we help them?
	We can have a carve up.
	Okay, if you're physically disabled, obviously you can't work, right?
	When you say physically, so you're not going to help you with mental health issues?
	You can't work?
	Well, I mean, how is your mind not a part of your body?
	If you've got schizophrenia, then you're still physically disabled.
	But there are lots of people who aren't physically disabled, who are kind of claiming, oh, I've got a sore back and bollocks.
	No, I believe that.
	I believe that, obviously.
	Because they come in the shop and they see you that can walk.
	Yeah, I know.
	I saw you with your walking stick and now you can walk.
	It's because we're so goddamn permissive.
	And it all has a knock-on effect.
	So we need to essentially tighten up and pull all the slack.
	Like, no, you get a job and you get no money.
	It's your problem then.
	Right, and we need to start being like that.
	But then how do we run the buses, and how do we run the hospitals, and how do we do all of this?
	There's no money in the pot because there's no pot.
	Well, because people work.
	That's why.
	They'll support themselves.
	So privatise everything.
	Yeah, that would be ideal.
	That also has corruption.
	There's a lot of corruption there.
	Look at the water.
	Look at the sewage in our waters.
	Come on!
	And we're paying them bonuses.
	We've got poo in our water because it was privatised.
	So there's corruption there.
	The problem with privatising monopolistic companies is there's no competition.
	And this is a fairly standard capitalist argument and it holds.
	And so, for example, I don't think the trains should be privatised.
	Great Western, Screwing us over.
	Unbelievable amount of money on the trains because they're owned by German and French companies.
	Yeah, the train fare, by the way, in London to here, I couldn't get over it because it's an hour.
	And I was like, what?
	It's mad.
	Going to Didcot Parkway, 15 minutes, they're like 30 quid.
	And it's just like, Jesus.
	But that's because they're owned by French and German companies.
	But on a natural monopoly, fine.
	But on most things, they're not natural monopolies.
	So it should be free market.
	Because that does erase corruption through market competition.
	The logic of it is sound, and that is true.
	When it comes to the water company, the trade, that's fine.
	And I'm happy for those to be nationalized.
	That's fine.
	Because I'm not like a... But then you're picking and choosing.
	Yeah, no, I am picking and choosing.
	I'm picking and choosing based on what works and what doesn't.
	Right?
	And, you know, some things work, some things don't.
	And that's fine, we can do that.
	Like, these are all things that can be done.
	But we're running out of time.
	See, I told you... Oh, because we were supposed to do Meghan and Harry!
	I was so excited to do Meghan and Harry!
	We haven't even got through... Did we get through?
	We didn't get through anything, really.
	Right, OK.
	Because I can talk so much.
	Can I just say to everyone, can you please be nice on Twitter?
	But I think the point is that we dug under a bunch of stuff.
	And I think that what I was saying about The fact that we're all part of an ethnic group and this comes with a history of baggage.
	I think you've shown that that's a part of the way you think about the English, whether you want to believe it or not, right?
	So you've got the left-wing view of art.
	I just think I can't win.
	I think just by the notion of the colour of my skin, I'm never going to be accepted.
	Well, I don't, I don't agree with that because.
	But I live it though.
	I live it.
	So you, you don't have to, you're a white person.
	You won't ever feel that.
	I feel it as a person of colour.
	Well, I've been to other countries.
	Yeah, but as a person, yeah, but that's exactly, you made such a good point there.
	What I notice is when white people go over to India or Dubai, they're treated so amazingly.
	They are not, well, you're not being called names, are you?
	Whereas brown people come over to this country, we're called names.
	I'm never going to be accepted.
	And I think actually, you know, when people sometimes say to me, well, go back to, well, they say Pakistan, but I'm actually, you know, my parents are from India.
	I think actually sometimes I really dreamed that my parents hadn't come over and I could have felt my own in my own country and I wouldn't have at least been called names all my life and at least my kids would have had a chance at life.
	I mean your kids are doing alright aren't they?
	Well, they are, but my son is always, but just because he's a brown lad, I think he's always going to be looked at.
	And he's always going to, you know, when his CV goes, you know, to a company, it goes right to the bottom.
	You know?
	Yeah.
	I don't think it does go to the bottom.
	I mean, look at the way the RF's being run.
	Like, oh, we're just getting useless white men applicants.
	But the problem in the country is literally the English are being disfavored in their own country.
	They're not, though.
	No, but they absolutely are.
	Like, for example, the hate crime thing.
	Only white people get arrested for hate crimes.
	The employment thing, we know that that's the case.
	I mean, we've got literally the people running the army and the RAF and various corporations who actively preference non-white people.
	The army!
	And you can see it.
	You know, diversity has been shown in every report and research.
	Diversity helps.
	So it's a good thing that it's happening.
	It's productive.
	So it's a good thing that white people are being marginalized.
	No, not marginalised.
	No, but we need diversity in our army.
	You know, when they talk about, oh, you don't speak English, being bilingual is very good.
	It's an asset for this country.
	So we'd be very effectively bombing foreign countries.
	No, but I'm saying that multiculturalism is what makes Britain great.
	I think multiculturalism, all of us together, is what makes us great.
	And you're looking at rare examples and rare cases, which by the way, I'm not denying, I'm not denying bad exists.
	Of course it does.
	But it's not rare that the system is stacked against the native English, right?
	It's obviously... I don't think it is stacked against the native English.
	You've got white privilege also.
	I don't.
	That's another show.
	I don't agree.
	There's so many other shows yet.
	I don't agree that there's white privilege.
	I think it all comes down to class.
	If I want to wrap this up, I'm going to say this is a class.
	Never colour this class.
	No, I don't agree.
	I think that the British state has an open animus against the native English at this point.
	Why do you think that?
	Give me an example, Toppyhead, before we wrap up.
	Sure, OK.
	Well, there was, I think it was Lincoln, I can't remember, or Cheltenham, or something like that, this young guy who'd applied to join the police force, he had an immaculate resume, and he ended up suing them successfully for not hiring him because he was white.
	So they had to pay him a stack of cash.
	And then you've got the RAF being like, we're just getting these useless white male applicants, not getting diversity.
	They're not saying useless.
	They literally said the word useless.
	They literally said the word useless.
	They weren't useless.
	These are well-qualified people.
	It's just that they're white, right?
	There is this animus.
	And like I said, the hate crime laws for us are like, Maybe they get done for hate crime because they are doing hate crime.
	Maybe they are, but the point is, yeah, but the point is brown people don't get done for hate crimes.
	But maybe we don't do hate crime.
	Where are we doing hate crime?
	I don't know.
	Let's look at, let's look at the Rochdale grooming gangs.
	Oh, I really don't want to, I've told you before.
	I know, but they literally said in the court, oh, she was a white slag.
	Yeah, that was wrong.
	I think.
	Yeah, but that's a hate crime.
	That's what a hate crime is.
	No, that is wrong.
	That's wrong.
	But they didn't get charged for hate crime.
	That's wrong.
	Because it's a two-tier justice system.
	Yeah.
	No, that's wrong.
	So the English are feeling disadvantaged.
	Yeah.
	And then they end up with wild amounts of ethnic minority representation in the government.
	Really?
	You don't think so?
	Rishi Sunak, Shwela Braveman, Pritip Patel.
	How is that wild?
	How is that over-representation?
	It's three out of how many?
	Well, I'm halfway through this.
	But still, that's still not on harmony.
	Well, we're meant to have black and brown people representation because we've got a country that is multicultural, whether you like it or not.
	We can't just have white people in parliament.
	Well, why not?
	Why not?
	Because that's not representative.
	I, as a taxpayer, right, as black and brown people who pay taxes in this country, I'm going to think I'm paying my taxes and I've got no one representing.
	So you're in England and you don't expect English people to be in the government?
	No, I do.
	Of course I do.
	But I pay taxes as a brown person and I want to see brown representation.
	So let's talk about the representation.
	So it should be 3%.
	What does it matter?
	Well, it matters because... I mean, it matters.
	It matters to me.
	Yeah, but it's disproportionate.
	Well, maybe they work harder.
	Ethnic minorities work damn harder.
	I'm not saying they don't.
	They really work hard.
	Okay, then representation doesn't matter.
	So it's a meritocracy now.
	It's not about representation.
	It's about... And I'm fine with that, but I don't really think Rishi Sunak is working either, actually.
	I don't think so.
	He's a rich guy.
	He's a very rich guy.
	Yeah, sorry.
	We're going to have to stop.
	I will do.
	I'm not seeing one thing.
	Let me find him.
	Where are the donations?
	Do people donate?
	Is that what happens?
	They can do, yeah.
	Oh, wow!
	Cumbrian Kulak says, Carl, you have the patience of a saint.
	My head hurts perhaps next time.
	Actually, my head's hurting.
	I believe it.
	Where's the other one, John?
	Oh, uh, sorry.
	Yeah.
	Uh, Ralcrux sends $30 and Marx lives for $10.
	Thank you very much, guys.
	I hate to do it, but we're out of time.
	Um, I don't feel we've got anything settled, but at least I think there's, um, I think we did.
	I think there was a few bits where I know where you're coming from and I know you definitely know where I'm coming from.
	I do.
	Right.
	Um, so I think I think that's something.
	We've made some headway.
	That's something.
	Yeah.
	To be able to just listen to each other.
	I think that's something.
	Yeah.
	But anyway, thank you so much for coming on.
	Where can people find more of you?
	I'll just stick to Twitter.
	I don't want anyone else to find me.
	Yeah, that's correct.
	Yes.
	All right.
	Well, thanks for joining us, folks.
	And I can't wait to read the comments on this.
	See you in half an hour for the Cyberpunk Dystopia.
	Hmm.

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