Louder with Crowder - Deport All Illegals | Change My Mind

Nov. 10, 2025 - Louder with Crowder

01:11:27

Deport All Illegals | Change My Mind

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	Well, what I mean is if you ask me my opinion, and then I answer and you go, that's interesting.
	That sounds possessive, or that sounds like a significant amount of money.
	Well, yes, I think that to the ordinary person, identifying your lady as my lady would sound possessive.
	But maybe that's a cultural norm that I'm not accustomed to.
	Sure, I'm sure you're not.
	But is that relevant to the point and the answer?
	Because you interrupted.
	You interrupted to say that offends me rather than listening.
	So do you not listen to people who come in and seek your social work the same way?
	No, I promise I do.
	Just not here.
	I came here to have a productive conversation, and usually when I encounter someone in my field, they are also working to have a productive conversation.
	But the way that you throw in the little tidbits that are demeaning, the way you have very circular argument and you throw stats, that's what makes me a little apprehensive to continue speaking with you.
	Oklahoma University, home of the Sooners and the location for the latest installment of Change My Mind, the series where we reason through our positions on controversial topics, which today is Deport All Illegals.
	That's right, all, and as you can imagine, it inspired some inspired acts.
	Of course, none of them had any intention of sitting down and, you know, talking.
	It's much easier to yell racist and scurry off.
	Of course, they didn't necessarily represent the majority.
	There were plenty of students who did want to sit down for some face-to-face time.
	So many, in fact, that we couldn't begin to get to all of them.
	Plenty of them were genuinely productive conversations.
	Others were not.
	My mom is French Canadian.
	My woman is Latina.
	Your woman.
	My woman, my lady, my missus.
	And, you know, let me know in the comments, which kind of conversation do you prefer watching in this series?
	Hit the like button while you're at it.
	We are funded and supported entirely by viewers like you.
	Thank you for those that do.
	Now on with Deport All Illegal.
	Change my mind.
	I don't fight.
	If you don't mind moving a little, you can face forward, but I got to hold the mic up because we've had people try and run off with the mic too, so I got to hold it.
	What's your name, by the way?
	My name is Savannah Wallace.
	Savannah, nice to meet you, Savannah.
	Let me ask you, how familiar are you, if at all, with kind of this installment, this series?
	Not at all, actually.
	I didn't know that you would be here today until I saw the signs around campus.
	And then, yeah, I think one of my friends Googled you and found out that you were 38, but that's it.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, at least I got it right because I also say I own a waterfront Dallas Ocean Dallas waterfront property.
	That doesn't even make sense.
	Yeah, it's not possible.
	So let me explain to you kind of just so we're not talking past each other.
	Let me first tell you kind of what it's not.
	It's not gotcha, scoring points, dunking clips, which I know we see a lot online.
	This was actually created about a decade ago to be sort of the anti-cable news, where people can actually have conversations that you don't see in media, where hopefully they're done in good faith, and it's, of course, used in its entire context.
	We never edit it out of context.
	So, obviously, however, you want to have the conversation, that's up to you.
	But I just want you to know where I'm coming from.
	Yeah, it's fine.
	And the topic.
	I'm going to super a constructive conversation.
	I don't think that I can change your mind, and I don't think that you can change my mind, although I'd like to see you try.
	That's fair.
	Well, you're sitting down to change my mind, but we'll see.
	Sometimes people are surprised.
	So today's conversation, yep.
	Wholesale, I support deporting all illegal aliens in this country, certainly in 2025.
	I think it's imperative for a multitude of reasons.
	And if you disagree, you're more than welcome to change my mind, Savannah.
	Okay, well, how do you feel about the ways that current deportations are being handled across the country?
	Support it.
	You support, like, the racial profiling and possibly the arrest of U.S. citizens?
	So I don't know of a single U.S. citizen who's been deported.
	No, I didn't say deported.
	I said being detained because our citizenship is being questioned.
	Well, let me ask you this.
	If someone matches the profile, for example, of a hit and run and you're detained and questioned and they find out it's not you, is that a violation of your rights?
	No, but the deportations that are happening across the country are going a little more deeper than that.
	Unfortunately, that seemed to be a very surface-level example.
	Sure, I understand why you would say that.
	And if that was the only way we're deporting people, sure, I don't have a problem with it.
	But it's not.
	So let me ask you, are you against all of the methods of deporting people right now?
	Like, how do you think we should do it?
	Well, that's actually the question I have for you, considering that you're hosting this event.
	How do you think that deportations across the country should be handled?
	Because when I think of deportations, I'm thinking of the mass roundups that have been happening and then the detainment.
	I forget what it's called, alligator alcatraz or something that was in Florida.
	Yeah, alligator alcatraz.
	Yeah, so that's what I think.
	So I was just wondering how you think that the deportation should be handled.
	Yeah, alligator Alcatraz was for some of the worst offenders, violent offenders.
	Let me ask you this.
	Before we get to that, do you believe that we should deport illegal aliens?
	I think it's a very situational occurrence.
	I find myself disagreeing with the mass deportations that are happening, which is why I wanted to come here today and ask you what your definition of illegal is and who fits that crisis.
	Someone who's come to this country illegally.
	Anyone.
	So anyone who doesn't have paperwork.
	Yeah, anyone who is in this country illegally, who committed the crime, the misdemeanor of coming to this country illegally or visa overstays, which make up a percentage of that.
	Yeah, I think it's pretty clear.
	I don't think that that's one of those scenarios where it's gray.
	You're either a legal citizen or you're not.
	So I support deporting all illegal aliens at this point.
	Which ones would you support deporting?
	I guess would be my question to you.
	And then how should we do that?
	Well, the question really comes back to how we're, how we go about deporting necessarily.
	So I think, because I mean, ultimately there has to be a solution.
	There's a solution for everything, especially in politics and things like that.
	Sometimes.
	I would like to say so.
	I would like to say that there would ultimately be a solution here.
	Yeah, but do you mean a solution that you're okay with?
	Or do you mean it?
	Because sometimes the solution is not a pretty one.
	Well, I was raised by Southern people.
	So we think that, what's it called?
	You know that you've come to a good conclusion when both parties feel like they're being screwed over.
	Yeah, compromises when no one's happy, something like that.
	That's how we say it in the Northeast, but same thing, yeah.
	Yes.
	You're much more polite in the South.
	I was raised by French Canadians, horrible, horrible people.
	But same sentiment.
	It's interesting that you say that you were raised by French Canadians.
	And I mean, does that also interesting to think that you're raised by French Canadians, yet you still support all deporting all illegal.
	Why is that interesting?
	Because you would think that if you're being raised by someone who isn't from this country, maybe you would have a more open mindset.
	Well, I think I have a very open mindset.
	I was born in Detroit.
	My dad's American.
	My mom is French Canadian.
	She now lives in the States.
	She's very proud.
	It's gone through the process.
	Loves America, speaks the language, pays taxes, contributes.
	My woman is Latina.
	Your woman?
	My woman, my lady, my missus.
	She belongs to you.
	Yeah, she likes it.
	I don't know if anybody is a Latina woman.
	They love a little bit of possessiveness, but I say it as a term of endearment.
	She went through the naturalization process.
	I fell in love with her when I saw a picture of her with her, she was actually going through the process of pictureing for the Statue of Liberty and a MAGA flag that she had.
	And both of them actually are far more aggressive than I am in deporting illegal aliens because they appreciate the citizenship.
	They appreciate being a part of this great country.
	So I don't really think that that's inconsistent.
	As a matter of fact, I think it's the rule, not the exception.
	But going back to the question, why, or sorry, who would you deport then?
	Who would you deem acceptable?
	What's your term as far as, I guess if you disagree with the legal definition of an illegal alien, and then how would we do it?
	Unfortunately, you've just asked me like three questions.
	Which one would you like to do?
	Who should be deported and how should we do it?
	Let me think.
	I guess I've never considered who I would deport if I was king of the world.
	Which people would I get rid of first, I guess.
	I well, I mean, if we go way back in history, because obviously if we don't study history, then we're doomed to repeat it.
	Sure.
	If we're talking about the colonial era and how, you know, Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492 and all of those things, my question would be: who can be illegal on stolen land?
	Oh, okay.
	So you're saying that no one is here legally?
	Well, no, I'm not saying that no one's here legally.
	I'm saying how can people be illegal on land that didn't belong to them in the first place?
	So who does the land belong to?
	And I still do want to get to the point here where you said there's a solution to everything.
	To do that, you do have to live in the real world, obviously.
	And right now it's 2025, and you have a disagreement with deportation.
	You said, well, I don't think we can do it.
	I don't remember your words.
	Wholesales, we need to determine who.
	So I think it's a fair question to say who should be deported and how would you do it.
	The solution isn't going to be this is all stolen land and give it back.
	I don't know if you've been to a Native American reservation lately.
	I don't think anyone would like that.
	And I don't think that's what they're asking for either.
	But who would you deport and how would you do it?
	And then we can see where we differ.
	Unfortunately, I don't think that anyone should be deported unless maybe someone's being extradited back to a country of origin.
	So saying if someone has committed a crime and maybe the UK or something, maybe they, the people who robbed, what's it called, the Louvre, and they stole all the crowns and yeah, I know, I still can't believe that that happened.
	You're like, how do you not catch these people?
	It was like an ocean's electricity.
	It really was.
	But I would say, unfortunately, I don't think that anyone deserves to be reported unless they're being extradited back to their country of origin because they are committing crimes in their country of origin and they are escaping because they don't want to face imprisonment.
	What if they're committing crimes here?
	I think that the term that comes to mind is that America is a country, a third world country with a Gucci belt.
	So if we have enough funding to say, maybe deport all of these illegal people, then why don't we have enough money to fix our justice system?
	Yeah, and this is one of the things where people just move the goalposts or present a red herring.
	I do want to stay on topic.
	I think we need to fix the justice system as well.
	But going to this, you see there's a solution for everything.
	Illegal aliens not only commit crimes, and that's why I brought it up at a much higher rate than native-born citizens, they also cost the taxpayer $150 to $450 billion a year.
	It is a serious problem, and obviously, you know about our debt and our deficits.
	So, how do we deal with this problem?
	Or it sounds to me like you're saying you wouldn't even deport people who've come here illegally, that's a crime, and are committing extra crimes while here.
	You wouldn't deport those people?
	No, I don't think I would, actually.
	I think that the prison system here in America is well equipped to maybe handle the reformation of those citizens.
	But I think that when your only option is to escape a country, when you're seeking political asylum, it's not necessarily the easiest thing in the entire world to obtain citizenship before you go to the country that you want to be in.
	Yeah, but why are they entitled to go to any country they want?
	Why is anyone entitled to living?
	Well, all countries, I don't know if you're aware, like they all have borders and they all have laws and becoming a lot of people.
	Mexico is far far.
	Actually, we have one of the most lenient policies out there.
	In Mexico, you can't even own waterfront property.
	Yeah, and in Mexico, you can't own guns either, and that's why the cartel has a lot of control.
	That's a good point.
	That's true.
	You disarm the citizens, you end up emboldening the worst of society.
	And a lot of those people, I'm sure you know this, are invigorated and emboldened by the human trafficking that goes on.
	Even people coming here seeking a better life, they have to go through coyotes, and a lot of them don't make it here.
	There are more slaves on earth.
	If we go that route of open borders, there are more slaves on earth now than ever in human history, did you know that?
	Yes, it is.
	Yeah, and a big part of them are sex slaves.
	And they thrive under open borders policies.
	Sorry, the sun.
	It's the sun reflecting off of that car.
	Sorry.
	It just like got me.
	Damn, Carline's cocky SOP over there.
	I don't know who's driving it, but it's okay.
	So, yeah, I don't understand.
	It would be incumbent upon you because it's not just, it's not as though there's no net laws if it's $150 to $450 billion here to the American taxpayer.
	Make the case to the struggling American right now who's paying taxes out the wazoo that someone who comes here pays no taxes, shares nothing in common with the culture, language, commits crimes, according to your definition, should still be allowed to stay and be supported by their tax dollars.
	Make that case, because that actually is, if we're going to come up with a solution, you need to make that case.
	Those are the people who are voting.
	It's very interesting that you've mentioned multiple times about speaking the language.
	It's almost as if you demean people for not being fluent in English.
	I'm curious to see if you are fluent in the language that your lady spoke.
	So I speak French.
	Yes.
	She speaks Portuguese, Spanish, and English.
	Yes.
	But she hates it when people are here in this country and don't speak English.
	And my mom is French, and she hates it when people here don't speak English.
	Because my mom came here.
	Well, it's an irrelevant question.
	So let's have you answer one question.
	Just one.
	I have.
	I have said that.
	You wouldn't deport criminals.
	So let me ask you this.
	Why should the American taxpayer keep footing the bill for current criminals who are also illegal aliens?
	Those are the people who are affected.
	Well, it's almost as if you're insinuating that illegal citizens do not pay taxes at all.
	Because you can receive employment here in the United States.
	There's little checkbox that you have to put on job applications.
	I didn't say that, but go ahead with this trick.
	I never said that none of them pay taxes.
	Well, it's interesting the way that you phrase it because it's almost insinuating that illegal citizens don't pay taxes.
	I would say it's interesting the way you interpret it because what I said is they cost the American taxpayer $150 to $450 billion.
	Now I could tell you, provide you the reference, if you want to take these with you so you don't have to take my word for it, that there's about a 17, that's including the 17% offset of taxes that are paid from the illegal aliens.
	So even including that number, it's $150 to $450 billion.
	Whether they all pay taxes or very few of them pay taxes is irrelevant.
	It's a net cost.
	There'd be no way of tracking it.
	It's irrelevant.
	$150 to $450 billion.
	Why should Americans pay for it?
	I'm finding that your argument is very circular.
	So realistically, I'm realizing that there is no way to change your mind unless you are willing to break the cycle that is your circular figure.
	Right.
	So what would break that is about the language that I speak privately with my woman in my house?
	Well, I mean, you referenced earlier that I was moving the goalpost.
	I was, whatever.
	I'm a social work major here at the University of Oklahoma.
	Fantastic.
	I'm trying to.
	I'm sorry?
	I said, fantastic.
	Good.
	Thank you for the work.
	I am just trying to understand where your opinion comes from because that's what we do.
	Social science is understanding how you can.
	Sorry.
	Oh, it's.
	Oh, okay.
	Social science is understanding how you can.
	You can bat it around like a cat toy.
	Just don't take it with you.
	Yeah, it's very tempting.
	I should have you sign it on the side.
	But I apologize.
	I got derailed there for a second.
	But social science is based on understanding where your opinion comes from.
	Sure.
	And it takes a certain amount of intelligence to understand why you believe what you believe.
	So why do you think you don't understand it?
	Because your argument is very circular.
	Okay, explain to me how it's circular.
	Because it seems as if you're not willing to, when I said that it's almost as if that you were insinuating that no one who is an illegal citizen is paying taxes.
	Yeah.
	You immediately brought up statistics saying, well, there is a 17%.
	No, I said because you were mischaracterizing what I said.
	I never said that.
	So if you're a social worker, shouldn't you also, let's say someone comes in and needs help.
	If they say, hey, I have a problem because, I don't know, I'm being recruited for this gang and I'm in a neighborhood.
	And if I don't, it's going to be dangerous to me.
	And you go, okay, but what I'm hearing you saying is your entire neighborhood is nothing but a gang.
	And he goes, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying.
	I said the net cost to taxpayers is $150 to $450 billion a year.
	You said, well, you're insinuating or demeaning people for none of them paying.
	That's not what I said.
	And then I gave you a follow-up stat to ensure it wasn't circular logic.
	I'm aware of the 17% offset.
	So it costs the American taxpayer a lot of money, not to mention sanctuary cities and crimes, which disproportionately affects.
	I know.
	I interrupted you there because you've been interrupting me this whole time.
	So it's unfortunate.
	But in the South, we are very polite.
	What I was going to ask, oh, I forgot, actually.
	Well, let me, how is that circular?
	I corrected what was a straw man.
	You're social.
	It's a logical fallacy, a straw man.
	You built up an argument that I didn't make.
	And when I said, well, that's not the argument I made, you said it was circular logic.
	I said, no, no, I'm just clarifying.
	That's not what I said.
	It's interesting.
	Is that fair?
	Well, I don't know.
	But it's.
	Is it fair to argue against the point or to present a case against the point that I actually made rather than one you've prepared to make a case against?
	Because I never said that.
	Unfortunately, I think I am done.
	I think so.
	It is very hard to have a productive conversation with you when you continue to interrupt me and speak over me and then say that, well, I'm moving the goalpost and then given no time to maybe have a rebuttal to that.
	Take all the time you want.
	No, I'm saying I came here with the intention of actually having a productive conversation.
	Sure.
	I just wanted to know who you were and what you thought because that's what we do in social work.
	We want to understand who you are as a person and what you think about the topic that is most concerning to you.
	So then shouldn't you listen when I say what I think of the topic as opposed to making up something I didn't hold on?
	And then I'll give you the floor.
	Hold on, and then I'll give you the floor.
	I know you constantly say, but we can set a timer and see who's interrupting who.
	Shouldn't you address the point if you ask me my opinion and I express it and not misrepresent it?
	It's just very interesting that whenever I get going on a particular topic, you continue to dominate the conversation.
	I understand that this is your show and there are cameras who are here for you.
	I get that.
	But I wanted to have a productive conversation, and it seems like that you're not actually here for that.
	May I speak?
	No, thank you.
	So you've not addressed a single point.
	I appreciate you.
	A single point that I've asked.
	Not one.
	I've continued to understand who you are as a person.
	Okay.
	Well, this will help you understand.
	No, no, you, not whatever you believe about this, because that's what we do in social work.
	I still don't know what it is that you do.
	Tell me what it is that you do.
	In social work.
	Yes.
	So we, social work, by definition, we try to work with the person and understand where they are coming from, how they have formed that opinion, and then how we can either agree, disagree, reach commonality.
	So that's why I was asking you questions about your wife and why you called her your lady and how that was a little possessive.
	And that's why I got a little offended because you were interrupting me before I could finish articulating my thought process.
	I was trying to understand who you are and where you're coming from where you're coming from with this argument.
	That way we could have a productive conversation.
	But when you continue to throw stats and you have a very circular argument, it's very hard to understand who you are as a person and achieve a productive conversation.
	I can have a conversation with you, but I don't have to agree with you.
	Of course.
	But it seems very disrespectful when you continue dominating the conversation, and I don't get a chance to do what I came here to do.
	Okay.
	May I present a suggestion?
	When you say listening to people and finding out where they're coming from, perhaps when you ask questions, listening to the answers, and taking an interest in the reasoning, the rationale, the logic behind it, and not misrepresenting what they say, that would help.
	That would serve you better than social work.
	Because I don't think you've listened a lot.
	Well, what I mean is if you ask me my opinion, and then I answer and you go, that's interesting.
	sounds possessive or that sounds well yes i think that to the ordinary person identifying your lady as my lady would sound possessive But maybe that's a cultural norm that I'm not accustomed to.
	Sure, I'm sure you're not.
	But is that relevant to the point and the answer?
	Because you interrupted to say that offends me rather than listening.
	So do you not listen to people who come in and seek your social work the same way?
	No, I promise I do.
	Just not here.
	I came here to have a productive conversation, and usually when I encounter someone in my field, they are also working to have a productive conversation.
	But the way that you throw in the little tidbits that are demeaning, the way you have a very circular argument and you throw stats, that's what makes me a little apprehensive to continue speaking with you.
	I'm just trying to understand.
	Is the tidbit that was demeaning the phrase, my lady?
	No, it's the little side comments that you sneak in when you're having conversations like this.
	You're a very sassy individual.
	I said, my lady, you said that was offensive.
	What else?
	Well, when I said that maybe that's a cultural norm that I'm not accustomed to, you said, well, I wouldn't expect you to.
	And then when we were talking about countries having borders, I said that, yes, I understand that countries have borders.
	And you said, well, I'd hope you would.
	No, that's actually not what I said.
	can rewind it well all countries i don't know if you're aware like they all have borders and they all have laws and becoming a citizen Mexico is far far, actually, we have one of the most lenient policies out there.
	Well, I think that's maybe your interpretation.
	I think you paraphrase a lot.
	Interesting.
	Why do you think that?
	Because you've done it a lot.
	Okay.
	Do you not care to elaborate further?
	It seems like you enjoy hearing yourself talk.
	Well, see, this is what you do.
	You say you enjoy.
	Would you like me to speak, or will you then accuse me of dominating the conversation?
	I think you paraphrase a lot.
	And I think you strawman a lot.
	And I don't think you've answered a single question.
	I don't think you've presented.
	I don't think you've presented your opinion on the issue at hand.
	I think you've presented a lot of offenses based on some things that I've said and some things that I haven't.
	I think you've paraphrased yourself into convincing yourself, Savannah, that you have a valid position.
	I don't think you do.
	So I'm saying that I don't think that anyone should be deported.
	And you say that I haven't answered any questions.
	You asked me.
	That is one.
	That is one, and I appreciate you answering that.
	Would you like to re-ask the other two?
	then maybe I can provide further clarity well because what actually I think I am though I tried to leave earlier.
	I do appreciate talking with you.
	Thank you.
	I just wish that we could have had a productive conversation.
	Yeah, I do as well.
	I hope that you have a wonderful day.
	Thank you.
	You too, Savannah.
	I appreciate it.
	No, thank you.
	No, thank you.
	Listening helps, Savannah.
	I did.
	And I am back.
	And thank you, Savannah.
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	Speaking of research, here's an Asian meet Andy.
	Andy, do you mind scooching in just so I can hold the microphone to you?
	A little bit closer.
	I mean, you can angle forward if you want.
	I know you probably don't want to be touching my knees.
	Today, it's deport all illegals.
	Let me just can't fit it all on a sign.
	I absolutely think that it's paramount that we deport all illegal aliens in this country.
	I think it's a moral imperative.
	And I think we're at the point too where economically it's definitely an imperative.
	I support it wholesale.
	If you disagree, you're more than welcome to change my mind.
	I'm interested to see why you think it's important like economic.
	So a few different reasons.
	The primary one is that illegal aliens cost a taxpayer in this country anywhere from $150 billion on the low end to $450 billion a year.
	Taxpayers.
	Let's split it and call it $350 billion or so.
	That's a lot, and there's no reason for it because that's something that could be prevented.
	How so?
	Are you like insinuating that they don't like pay taxes and that's why they're costing the taxpayer money?
	Yeah, most don't.
	So if you look at the contribution, the offset of the $150 to $450 billion, it includes the 17% or so offset of those who pay taxes.
	17%, not who pay taxes, but that's about the offsetting costs.
	So they cost far, far more than they actually benefit.
	So I've got like most like immigrants that come here illegally, right?
	They come here in search of legally or illegal?
	Illegally.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	Like they come here in search of better opportunities, right?
	Some.
	If they're coming here for employment, then shouldn't they be forced to pay taxes by the U.S. like revenue service or something?
	You would think so, because you and I would.
	Yeah.
	Let me ask you: why do you think that many of them don't?
	I honestly don't have an answer to that because I'm just assuming if they're doing work, then I'm assuming that their IRS is just going to catch them.
	I don't think the IRS is letting anyone go without paying income tax and stuff.
	Oh, sure, plenty.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, plenty.
	And not only plenty, but let's assume that they were on the books and not being paid cash, right?
	Let's assume that they could be tracked because they have a social security number.
	And I think you're basing these presumptions on a lot of respectfully talking points.
	If the left pushes out, hoping that you believe it, most of them come here and pay taxes.
	That's actually just not true.
	But even if you were to take that into account, the amount of services and social benefits that they receive far exceed the portion of them who pay income taxes.
	But they can work off the books.
	They're incentivized to.
	The employers are incentivized to.
	And the entire Democratic Party has incentivized them to do so because, hey, it's pretty beneficial to have basically third world labor at third world wages.
	Yeah.
	So, with regards to that, like, how is their negative, like your opinion of their negative contribution on like the American economy?
	Yeah.
	Like, it's going to cost the cost, yeah.
	It's going to cost billions and billions of dollars to deport them.
	What's the difference?
	So, no, to give you an idea, deporting, so the average cost to deport an illegal alien right now is estimated about $17,000.
	So, if we deported, let's just say the 20 million who came in under Biden, give or take, right?
	No one knows the official number of how many are in the country.
	I've seen as low as 35, I've seen as high as 50 million.
	I assume it's somewhere around 30, 40 million.
	If we deported 20 million illegal aliens, that would cost us about 340 to 360 million, sorry, billion dollars.
	So, we'd actually save money before the end of the year.
	Let's call it one and a half years if we're using that low-end estimate.
	They cost $150, $450 billion a year, and deporting 20 million right now would cost about $350 million.
	So, it would be net savings.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, it makes sense.
	I just have a question.
	So, what's your estimates on what illegal immigrants cost the American taxpayer?
	Yeah.
	Do you have a citation for that?
	Yeah, all right here on the QR code.
	Everything.
	Some of it comes from Cato, some of it comes from the Bureau of Labor.
	There's probably about 40 or so sources there.
	And I don't think a single one of them is right-leaning.
	Yeah.
	So, yeah, the left doesn't really even argue that anymore.
	They just say, well, it's the right thing to do is to give everyone an amnesty or path to citizenship.
	And to give you an idea, I don't know if you saw this.
	In Texas, they just checked to see how many illegal aliens use the emergency room, emergency room services.
	In one month, the one month they tracked it, it was $120 million at one hospital.
	I don't know if you know this, but illegal aliens, they'll come in, they'll use the emergency room as primary care and never pay the bill.
	$120 million at one hospital in one month.
	Yeah, I know.
	That honestly blew my mind.
	And it also blew my mind that no one even thought to track it.
	So the more we track it, the more we actually kind of dig into the numbers, the worse it is.
	There's no net economic benefit.
	And let me ask you this, because I know you're talking about the economy and people looking for a better life.
	Let's assume that that's true.
	It's not true of all illegal aliens, by the way.
	And that's why we have the crime problems that we have in a lot of these cities, namely sanctuary cities.
	But don't you think that it's imperative that the United States government looks out for people who are already here first if they're looking for work?
	So 7 million, 7.5 million Americans are looking for work.
	Why do we need to import people to do those jobs cheaper than Americans?
	And if you look at under the Biden administration, foreign-born workers, jobs, when they say job increases, it was about 3 million new jobs for people who weren't from the United States.
	Americans lost about 1.5 million jobs if they were born here.
	The first few months of Donald Trump's presidency, now it's about 1.5 million native-born working jobs gained and one million foreign-born working jobs lost.
	That shows a difference in approach.
	It shows a difference in priorities.
	I think our priority should be to Americans living here first who are looking for jobs.
	When you import people to do them, you just rob Americans of the opportunity to do those jobs.
	And the numbers show that they'll do them.
	Yeah.
	I agree with that point somewhat, but if illegal immigrants are coming here, I would say a majority of them are coming here looking for work.
	I would say a majority of them are coming here looking to cause havoc.
	I didn't say that.
	I just said not all of them are.
	Yeah.
	Like if a majority of people are coming here looking for work, shouldn't like America with its capitalist ideology, shouldn't like more talented migrant workers get their roles compared to like someone who's less talented but is born here natively?
	Can you explain to me how a migrant is going to be more talented as a truck driver?
	How a migrant is going to be more talented at a meat packing plant?
	What if they have more experience from the country they came from and then they went here because like economically they could get paid more for some of the work.
	Yeah, so it'd be pretty hard to argue that case because people go through training to do these jobs and some of them are unskilled jobs.
	So we've heard for a long time who's going to pick your strawberries, right?
	Who's going to till the fields?
	Well Americans did it.
	Who's going to mow your lawns?
	Well Americans did it.
	And now the argument has shifted to well really highly skilled labor, for example H-1Bs and Indians coming in here, coming to this country working in tech.
	And they'll do it for 30%, 40% less than the American wage.
	But they're not any better.
	So if Americans aren't good enough for low-skilled labor, they're not good enough for high-skilled labor, sounds to me like people are saying Americans aren't good enough for any labor and you have plenty of Americans who are ready, willing, and able to do those jobs.
	They just can't do them because they're competing against third world labor costs.
	I don't think that there aren't enough skilled Americans to do these jobs.
	If someone wants to argue picking strawberries, fine.
	I still disagree, but let's assume that.
	You can't then extend that to also retail, also truck driving, also trade jobs, also highly skilled tech jobs.
	At what point do you say, hey, Americans matter too?
	They should be able to get jobs.
	Is that fair?
	Yeah, I think that's pretty fair.
	And let me ask you this: why do you think it's incumbent upon the United States to accept anyone who wants to come here?
	Do you have a general problem with the idea of borders and ensuring the well-being of our people here first?
	Well, I don't have a general problem with borders itself.
	It's obviously important to keep national security out.
	And a lot of people actually apply for visas.
	I have relatives that are applying for visas and they're waiting decades to get here.
	So I think borders are important.
	But I also think that America has a long reputation of being a land of opportunity and a multi-polluted culture.
	So I feel like if an illegal immigrant comes here searching for asylum, searching for work, searching for more opportunity, America has a duty to let them in.
	What?
	When you say asylum, can you define for me asylum?
	Because that's an actual term.
	It's not a broad term.
	There's a legal definition to asylum.
	It's not someone seeking a better wage.
	It's someone fleeing a persecutive government.
	That's not most of these people.
	They're fleeing countries that suck economically, culturally, I would argue, to come here and take advantage of a better country, but they're not benefiting the country.
	Don't we have the right, just like Mexico does?
	You know, Mexico has far harsher immigration policy.
	Where is your family from, by the way, Tom?
	My family's from Vietnam.
	From Vietnam.
	Yeah, they have far more strict immigration policy in Vietnam, all across Asia, by the way.
	Super strict in South Korea and Japan.
	Seems to only be a problem in the United States has it.
	And we're not really a melting pot in that term of just a bunch of different cultures.
	Americans are, just to give you a perspective, first off, your parents are probably waiting for a very long time because our immigration system is broken, largely because of the mass illegal immigration.
	But Americans are footing the bill to, they're paying to be made to feel like strangers in their own hometown.
	The United States has a national language.
	Thank God we have one now.
	We didn't before.
	The United States has a culture.
	And is it okay?
	This is one thing, too, for a long time, Americans were accused of being racist.
	If Americans expect people who come here to wave the flag, speak the language, and become American, and not only create these ghettos, and I don't mean ghetto in the way that people use it today, but ghettos where you have people who come from these countries and they create neighborhoods where they don't integrate, they don't associate.
	And it's not American.
	And Americans also want to have a clearly defined culture and preserve that because they want to keep the country they grew up in.
	Is that okay?
	Yeah, I believe that's okay, but like you, I would argue that American culture is like ever-changing.
	Like it's not like our culture like 200 years ago is the same as our culture today.
	Especially with like, I grew up with public schools, right?
	I'm sorry.
	Me too.
	Yeah.
	Well, like, I think that the influx of immigrants like throughout time, and right now where certain like ethnic groups are actually going to like be a majority of the American population, I feel like just blending all of those cultures together and like having like public forums like school, like that, that's beneficial.
	And that changes like American culture.
	So how is it beneficial?
	Because you say it's ever-changing.
	Well, you can say that technologically right for any culture.
	By the way, sorry, I got a mosquito on my vehicle driving me nuts.
	That's every culture if you're talking about technology, stuff like that.
	But let me ask you this.
	What part of American culture is not ever-changing or shouldn't be ever changing?
	What should be the constant?
	What is American culture?
	Because that's a conversation we're having right now.
	And you say, you know, those demographics are going to change.
	And that is true.
	You have the Democratic Party putting Americans out of work, discouraging, for example, birth rates under this climate alarmism and importing in record numbers third world labor where, yeah, America would look like these other countries.
	What is, by your estimation, or what should not be ever-changing to preserve American culture?
	Well, what I think American culture is, is like, I feel patriotism is a big part of it.
	And also just like the like self-working men, right?
	Like you're pulling yourself up by the bootstraps.
	Self-determination.
	Self-determination.
	I feel like those are like the biggest factors.
	But patriotism means patronage right to something.
	So patriotism to what?
	To America?
	Would we also include Christian Christendom?
	Christian?
	Christianity is a basis of this country.
	Fundamental Western values.
	Yeah, America was founded on the basis of Christianity, but I feel like that isn't one of my biggest.
	No, I'm just saying, but that's a part of American culture.
	Just like in a lot of Asian cultures, you could obviously have Buddhism, Taoism.
	I don't know.
	What is the primary religion in Vietnam?
	I know for a period of time, obviously, you can just put that in your pocket if you want.
	And I appreciate you asking for the citations, by the way.
	What is it in Vietnam?
	Vietnam, like my family is Buddhist, but I'm pretty sure it's like it's either Buddhism or capitalism.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	There's obviously a strong, strong current of atheism when you're talking about the communism that rose in Vietnam.
	So that's a part of it.
	What about a shared language?
	A shared language.
	Yeah.
	Shared language in the United States.
	Yeah.
	Let me ask you this: how does someone coming from, let's say, Mexico or Honduras, how does someone coming here, let's just take Mexico as an example, someone who comes to this country, who takes a job that an American is willing to do for a lower wage because they don't pay taxes, who doesn't speak English, waves the Mexican flag, how does that benefit the United States in any way?
	Well, like, culturally, even.
	Culturally, yeah.
	Someone who doesn't speak the language, doesn't share our values.
	I think the corpse assumption here is that that is their constant personality.
	I would argue.
	It's too much.
	I'm saying it's too much, and that's a big reason that Americans voted for Donald Trump, not only economically, but culturally.
	People want a country and a culture they want to preserved, and they have the right to preserve it.
	Yeah, I would argue, though, like immigrants like that, I don't think they're just trying to represent their home country forever.
	I think they're also trying to blend into the American culture we have now.
	I don't think it's fair to assume that, like, for example, a Mexican immigrant would only speak Spanish forever and not try to learn English or American.
	I didn't assume that all Mexican immigrants speak Spanish forever.
	But I will tell you, having to press one for English in an English country is a problem.
	Vietnam wouldn't accommodate another culture before their own and wouldn't accommodate the best interests of foreign nations before their own, would they?
	They absolutely would not.
	They have a much stronger nationalist spent than the United States.
	Yeah, it's a problem if it's so prevalent and so common that signs have to be in Spanish, that customer service has to be in Spanish, where you can't communicate with your neighbor.
	It's enough of a problem.
	And the idea of a test, a language test, has been rejected wholesale by the Democratic Party, right?
	So it's accommodated by design.
	That is a problem.
	And it's not a small percentage.
	You have people who are here for decades who cost the taxpayer billions of dollars, never learn the language, never assimilate.
	Here's the big difference, right?
	You talk about being, I hear this a lot, a nation of immigrants.
	And that's probably, you're probably thinking, like in your mind, like Ellis Island, you know, probably early 1900s, right?
	So let's kind of look through, that's column A, and column B is the immigration we're looking at today, right?
	To use the melting pot analogy.
	Someone from Italy, someone from Ireland, someone from Poland or Germany, take your pick, right?
	Who's coming here then?
	You know, you've heard the old stories, nothing but a nickel in my pocket, right?
	Got off the boat.
	They were coming here at great risk to themselves.
	It's not safety or comfort.
	There was no welfare state.
	It was, you come here, and like you said, self-determination.
	You are free, but don't expect us to coddle you.
	Some of them actually left the security and comforts of their previous countries in order to seek out freedom, put at risk to themselves.
	And they came here and they learned the language.
	Let's be honest.
	Someone from Ireland and someone from England and someone from Italy who were living in a borough of New York back then who spoke the same language.
	It's not like they were from different planets.
	They had a relatively similar shared heritage, culture, values, religion, language.
	That is not the same as people coming here when there is a giant modern welfare state that incentivizes immigration at a cost to the taxpayer, not at risk to themselves, at cost to the taxpayer, and they don't learn the language and they don't share the same values.
	It's like we're from different planets.
	Is it fair to say there's a marked difference between that?
	I could see that difference.
	Yeah.
	And so how about this?
	Not that I think this will ever happen, but here's my middle ground.
	I say deport everyone, by the way, who's here illegally.
	Make them go through the process like your parents are.
	Do you think, first, would you think that's disagreeable?
	Make them, give them the opportunity to come through legally, but if they're here illegally, you got to go back, come back through just like your family, sorry, applying for visas.
	Let's assume you disagree with that.
	How about this?
	Okay, if we catch you and you're here illegally, all right.
	You can stay if you pay all your back taxes.
	How long have you been here?
	How long have you been working?
	You pay all of it, plus 5% interest, because Americans would be penalized if they didn't pay their taxes.
	You pass a language, you have to do it immediately.
	If not, you're gone.
	You have to pass a language test, civics test, just like you do to become a citizen here.
	I know it because my miss has had to go through a naturalization test.
	She's Brazilian.
	And then you also have to provide proof of contribution to your community, bettering your community, as well as, by the way, a remittance tax, where you can't come here and send your money back to another country.
	No other country allows that.
	So if you come here, you don't speak the language and you haven't paid taxes and you're sending your money to another country, you're gone.
	If you already know English, you're ready to pay your back taxes, because if you were here wanting to be right a part of America, you'd be saving your taxes just like I do quarterly.
	You could pass the language test easily because you're happy to be in the United States and you'll keep your money here in our economy as opposed to sending it back and just do a soup kitchen.
	You do that, we'll give you a path to going through the process.
	Would that be fair?
	Anyone who doesn't meet that criteria, gone.
	Is that a fair compromise?
	I feel like that's a pretty fair compromise, except for the fact that it's immediate, right?
	Like, but someone here who wants to be American, they obviously should know the language and they should be ready to pay their taxes.
	If someone wants to be American, like, even if they want to be American, learning a second language is very hard.
	Well, most countries don't even let you in to work there unless you already know the language.
	Oh, really?
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	Even in provinces in French Canada, if you don't show the capability, you're not going to be getting into work.
	You're not going to be eligible for a lot of social media, like they're sort of socialized healthcare.
	Yeah.
	We're one of the only, you know who has an official language of the country being English?
	And who has that?
	India.
	Every other country, almost every country, had an official language except for us.
	By the time you get here, if you want to be American, right, it's a golden ticket, like you said, right?
	It's a great country.
	That's why they're coming here.
	Show the respect of learning the language and paying your taxes.
	Is that fair?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	I think that's a fair compromise.
	Well, it'll never happen, though, because the entire Democrat Party says that that's racist.
	So just keep that in mind and check the citations.
	But I appreciate the conversation, Andy?
	Yeah.
	Andy?
	And I hope it goes well for your parents too, brother.
	I hope I hear some of my parents' mindset.
	I'm sorry, sorry, your family, your family.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Well, thank you for speaking.
	Thank you very much, brother.
	I appreciate it.
	Be well.
	Really appreciated being able to cover the broader topic of what it means to be an American with Andy.
	Really nice kids.
	Show them you love them in the comments.
	And show some love in the comments.
	Period.
	Across the board.
	It helps with the YouTube algorithm that no one fully understands.
	And hit the like button, share, because that lets the YouTube overlords know that we're not dead and there are people out there who actually want this kind of content as opposed to clickbait crap.
	I'll tell you what's not crap or who's not crap is our next guest.
	Nice to meet you.
	I'm Joshua.
	Joshua, grab a seat, Joshua.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	And I hate to ask you to scooch in because it's just what the cameras work.
	No worries, no worries.
	Yeah, that works, yeah.
	And yeah, my position today, now, we can still rationalize our positions on controversial topics.
	I think certainly in 2025, where we are, and it's a hot button issue, that we should be deporting all illegal aliens in this country.
	If you disagree with me, you're more than welcome to change my mind, Joshua.
	I'd also like to, I think I've followed you since, I think you went to CCU.
	You blew up on Twitter like 10 years ago.
	Okay.
	It's cool to see you there.
	But yeah, I do heavily disagree with deport all illegals.
	Okay.
	Just because, I mean, realistically speaking, how can you actually do that?
	All illegals?
	I mean, is that really possible?
	Well, can we end all murder?
	No.
	Can we end all theft?
	Absolutely not.
	Tax evasion?
	No.
	It doesn't mean that it's not a matter of policy.
	Of course.
	So I'm saying that the ideal as a matter of policy should be people who are here illegally.
	Certainly at this juncture, the policy is deport people illegally, who are here illegally, sorry, not illegally deport them.
	No.
	And have them come through the same pathways that people who migrate here legally.
	Certainly, would you say that like current illegals in today's day?
	I mean, do you think they don't try to do it the legal way?
	You know what I'm saying?
	I don't care.
	You don't care?
	Okay.
	I really don't.
	Some do, some don't.
	What I care about is there are more slaves on earth than ever in recorded history, including sex slaves.
	300,000 minors went missing under Biden.
	I care that they cost the American taxpayer $150 to $450 billion a year.
	I care that there are, particularly Hispanic immigrants here in this country, who live in sanctuary cities under the rule of cartels and they can't report anything to the authorities because they're basically held hostage and for ransom.
	I just think it's, I'm sure there are some, but it enables a system that's a real failure and we need to change.
	So, Ben and your point about slaves and you know, in particular, Hispanic immigrants, you know, they're the ones who don't you think they might come over here to kind of escape that form of slavery?
	Well, if they are, they're doing a really bad job because we've created a modern day class of slavery where people who, and there are employers who should be punished, who are all too happy to hire people off the books.
	They're enabled by policy from the Democratic Party, and there are people who are happy to work off the books.
	So that's why they'll work for lower wages and they're effectively modern indentured servants.
	So I don't think it's good for them either.
	It may not, but I think I'm going to kind of put the point of view as this way.
	Sure.
	You take me, for example.
	My parents came from Mexico.
	And I just think it's when you say something to deport all illegals, then I think you kind of rob sort of children as myself, like myself, and from an opportunity like this, you know, coming to a great university.
	And I'm privileged in that sense, you know?
	Sure, I have the opportunity to come here.
	I'm proud to be here right now, you know.
	It means the world to me.
	So I think that kind of deprives these immigrant children from that.
	Why is it the American citizen's job to provide that?
	You say deprived, that means someone else is providing it.
	What about the people here who are deprived of it, who are struggling as well?
	Why is it incumbent upon the American working taxpaying class to provide opportunity to everyone?
	I suppose it isn't, but with that same point of view, wouldn't you say that deporting illegals, that also takes away from the taxpaying dollars?
	No, how?
	I'm not so sure.
	You mean how much it costs?
	Right, right.
	Yeah.
	No, I understand that point, but for example, if we just deported, let's say, 20 million illegal aliens, it costs on average about $17,000, give or take.
	These are all estimates, right?
	Of course.
	So you'd be at around $350 million.
	You'd be saving money by the end of the year.
	Yeah.
	Let's say, let's call it two years, because it costs $150 billion.
	And if you watched the older installments, for example, like at TCU, I did a build the wall change my mind, which back then was also racist, but has now been incredibly effective.
	Because now people say, well, we support strong border policy, but not deportation.
	But back then, there was no support for strong border policy.
	Back then, the number was $116 billion a year.
	The lowest you'll find is $150 to $450 billion.
	If we deported 20 million illegals, it would cost $350 billion.
	So no one would be in net savings.
	And not to mention, in addition to that, job loss.
	I mean, here's one thing to say, deprived.
	And just to be clear, of course, my heart goes out to people who are seeking a better life.
	I understand that.
	I think it's a hard case to make for the people who've opened the borders where they say all cultures are equal, but it's so cruel to send these people back to their equal culture that we have to allow them to stay here.
	Of course, I understand.
	My heart goes out to you.
	My heart also goes out to the seven and a half million Americans looking for jobs who are ready, able, and willing to do them.
	Those jobs are being imported for lower wages.
	And I don't think that's good for the culture in this country either.
	I think there are exceptions, but that's not what's happening in this country.
	Certainly.
	I kind of actually admire that you said that because I was going to make the point that, you know, when people, I wanted to originally bring up the point that, you know, illegals, when we come over here, we're taking all these, you know, the jobs no one else wants.
	But I honestly see like illegals as more than that.
	You know, obviously some people, you know, we come over here, we're illegal, and then we become legal.
	You know, that's kind of what happens in some cases, of course.
	Sure.
	And I think a lot of us, like, for example, I'm Hispanic and I'm in business.
	You know, I'm proud to be moving into a sector, you know, making a name for ourselves.
	Yeah.
	So I think we're more than just like blue-collar jobs and June jobs that no one else wants.
	I didn't say just blue-collar jobs.
	Yeah, yeah, no.
	I appreciated your point.
	Well, because that's also a problem.
	Picture, you're one of the seven and a half million Americans, right?
	Yes.
	And so people often go, who picks strawberries?
	People who are here.
	Hispanic people aren't the only people who will pick strawberries.
	And Hispanic people aren't, you know who mowed lawns?
	In Canada, I did snowblowing, which sucks way more, shoveling lockwise.
	I'd much rather mow lawns.
	I did those jobs.
	Plenty of Americans did those jobs.
	But the argument used to be, who's going to do these low-skill jobs?
	Now the argument, if you look at H-1Bs, is, well, there aren't enough skilled Americans to do tech jobs and engineering jobs.
	So the average American tech worker, for example, in Palo Alto might cost about $120,000.
	Let's do it for $70,000 if someone skims off the top.
	And now we have illegal aliens, for example, taking truck driving jobs.
	That's a middle-skilled job that pays well and an American would take to support his family.
	And we're told that, no, Americans won't do those jobs.
	So I think we agree.
	This idea that Americans won't do them is just not true.
	And it's not that immigrants will only do one form of job.
	I just think the priority needs to be to people who are here struggling because we're a country and we need to place our countrymen and women first.
	Right.
	I think, you know, America right now is kind of at a point in time where it's relatively unsafe, but I think both you and I agree we want a safe America.
	Yeah, and we want to prioritize that.
	Even if it is towards American citizens first, you know, that's fine.
	I get that.
	Like, I am an American citizen myself.
	You know, and I'm actually a senior graduate in this May, so I'm going to be entering the job market and I'm going to be in that relative same position.
	And what are you studying?
	Finance.
	Finance.
	Okay.
	So what do you plan on doing in finance?
	Right now I plan on going into commercial real estate or wealth management.
	Okay.
	Those two very different areas.
	Yeah, I know.
	Because commercial real estate, like every lady named Becky is in commercial real estate these days, but then obviously in wealth management, that requires a little more specialty.
	Certainly.
	So I say that because commercial real estate, I really enjoy speaking and honestly, like I enjoy a great debate as well.
	So that's pretty awesome.
	But aside from that, I have like a relative interest in commercial real estate, but wealth management, it's like if you look at the industry right now, it's like a lot of these older dudes are kind of like retiring from it.
	And I think commercial real estate is like a lot of older dudes are holding on to their money.
	Well, let me ask you this.
	So let's take that scenario.
	And I'm not super familiar with it, but I assume you're accurate.
	Those people are retiring.
	Yes.
	What would you think about people being brought in to do those jobs on H-1Bs at 30% lower wages than you would need to live?
	Quite frankly, it probably pissed me off.
	Yeah, because that's happening across this country, right?
	Yes, sir.
	Do you think that that is compassionate or right?
	Or do you think that obviously looking out for the interests of you, who's gone through this the right way and gone to school and studied, that you should be given priority as far as your best interest.
	Someone could just say, you know what?
	Yeah, great, we would hire you, but this person named Prandeep from India is going to do it for $40,000 less.
	I mean, that's a difficult question to answer.
	I'm going to put a scenario, for example, when I was waiting in line to speak with you, I was at the very back and then I just kind of was given priority.
	Well, because many people come up and they agree.
	And I was told, I was like, is there anyone who disagrees?
	And they said, well, this person's parents are immigrants, so he might disagree.
	So I don't know.
	I mean, Lane is Aryan, so maybe it was tokenism on his part.
	But a lot of people agree.
	So I try and give right away to people who disagree.
	Okay, okay.
	Well, see, well, that's a perfect example because I was automatically given priority just because I disagree.
	And that's kind of playing into this scenario where it's like, should these people be given priority or should I be given priority?
	Really?
	The people who are willing to do the job cheaper.
	Should they be given priority or should me, the American citizen, be given priority?
	It's a difficult question.
	It's not difficult if, do you want to have a United States?
	I do, yeah.
	Okay, well, then you've answered the question.
	So, right?
	Yes.
	Do you want it to be India?
	No.
	Do you want it to be, even though I know you're, do you want the United States to be Mexico?
	No.
	I know your parents don't.
	That's why they came.
	So it's a pretty clear answer.
	Of course.
	Look out for America's interests.
	And isn't it great that a very white person and a brown person can agree on that?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Because the media says that view is racist.
	American versus racist.
	Well, that means all people who are here.
	But I don't want this country to be India.
	And I want this country to be Mexico.
	I think we're a better country.
	And I think it's better for, by the way, I think that India and Mexico would do better to emulate America as opposed to what they're doing.
	Right, certainly.
	I mean, yeah, I never, I hate that people try to make it like white versus brown because I'm not even seeing it like that, you know?
	Yeah.
	And I think a lot of people do tend to see things that way: white versus black, white versus brown.
	But it's like, no, we can have a civil conversation like we are right now without having to bring up all the all this other extra BS.
	Well, I will say it is relevant in this sense, and I think it's fair for people to say it's relevant.
	If someone comes here from what is effectively a third world country compared to the United States, I would classify most of Mexico that way.
	Not everyone, but people live in abject poverty that Americans can't imagine.
	That's fair.
	And same thing in India, of course, one of the poorest countries on earth.
	I think if they come here and they don't share fundamental values and they don't share a common language and they send their money back to the other country, I think that's relevant.
	And I think Americans are tired of it.
	And I think that Americans, yeah, they want to preserve a culture, but they do take race into account when they go, oh, hold on a second.
	We're noticing the pattern of people coming here, taking advantage of our services, our good graces, and using their empathy against us.
	I kind of want to have neighbors that speak my language and share my culture, right?
	I mean, it doesn't have to be like Japan, where it's such a high-trust society because everyone looks the same.
	They got 3% immigrants have to go right away.
	And they started deporting them.
	But I think it's relevant.
	I really do.
	Okay, well, in that case, I mean, wouldn't you say, like, you should, I guess, like, I really do appreciate that, but at the same time, I'm like, America, we kind of used to like embrace and admire, and I'm not saying we still do, but a little less to a degree.
	We used to admire being such a boiling pot, and now it kind of seems like we are straying away from that.
	Of course, you want to have a neighbor and share the same culture.
	Yeah, it is frustrating when you go to the gas station and you can't understand the colour you're speaking with.
	You know, I 100% get it.
	And it shouldn't be allowed, in my opinion.
	It shouldn't be allowed.
	What should not be allowed?
	People coming here and not learning a language.
	And I don't think that people should be allowed to come here and send all their money back to the country they fled.
	When people say asylum, I go, well, then why are you sending 60, 70% of your money back?
	You know who doesn't do that?
	Cuban Americans.
	You know who doesn't do that?
	Russian Americans who fled the USSR.
	They don't want to send money there.
	So I don't think it's a legitimate claim if someone is coming here from Mexico working a seasonal job and sending their money back to Mexico.
	That benefits Americans zero.
	And it is a net harm, not only economically, but culturally.
	I've seen public opinion shift because I think Americans were very open-minded, but they're going, you know what?
	This doesn't feel like the country.
	What is American?
	I'm patriotic.
	But what does that mean?
	Patriotic to what?
	To not a shared language, to people who wave the flag of a foreign nation on our national holidays.
	I think that's relevant.
	Right.
	Well, if I'm not mistaken, learning English is not a requirement, although it probably should be.
	I think it should be.
	It probably should be, you know, but as of right now, that's not the America we live in.
	No, it is in Mexico.
	Not English, but Spanish.
	Right, right.
	You're not allowed to own waterfront property.
	Even if you're a legal immigrant in Mexico, you're not allowed to protest.
	There are additional taxes.
	We have a very lenient immigration policy.
	So when a place like Mexico would not afford me, as a legal immigrant, the same rights as someone there, and we're saying, yeah, you know what, we'll just, I guess we'll give you a pass and amnesty, it's foolish.
	And if your family loves America, and that's, I think, what this broader conversation is.
	If we want America to be a country, if we think it's a great country, well, what makes it great?
	And that doesn't mean melanin in the skin, but it does mean shared values.
	And we haven't been requiring that of immigrants, legal and illegal in this country.
	And I propose that we shift direction right now.
	We need to share more common ground.
	So in that case, which I mostly agree with, what is a realistic solution to that?
	So I think we need to have, well, we have Donald Trump was signed into executive order an official language, which means we've caught up to India.
	They have English as an official language there, an official language.
	I think that at this point, we actually should be quite selective in the immigrants legal who are allowed here.
	They should be judged on the criteria of is this a net benefit to the country?
	Not, hey, do we have to do the nice thing and allow everyone here?
	I think that's how our immigration policy should exist.
	And I think that states can have reforms and they have, for example, requiring customer service being in English.
	I think a culture of these expectations is reasonable.
	And people who come here legally, like for example, my mom is French-Canadian.
	My dad is born in Detroit.
	She learned English, didn't speak a word of it.
	She learned English.
	She loves America.
	She's gone through the process.
	Now, imagine her, she's French, right?
	She learned English.
	And she comes here, and she can't share a common language because that person only speaks Spanish or only speaks whatever it is, Farsi, whatever it is.
	She's furious.
	Funny, my lady, and a feminist got mad that I said my lady.
	She that's possessive.
	My lady is Latina.
	She's Brazilian, but was raised by a Cuban-American mom, so she speaks Portuguese, Spanish, and English.
	And she went through the process, and she's furious when she asks someone who won't speak English.
	She's like, I did it.
	So I don't think it's a lot to ask.
	I think our approach needs to be not only an official language, but also an expectation of all Americans.
	We're going to have another topic, SNAP.
	I think we should do away with SNAP.
	I think if you are not a contributing member of society, you shouldn't be given the same level of freedoms as those who are working and struggling in society and building.
	Let me put it this way.
	It's the difference between building a country and taking from a country.
	When we talk about immigrants in the early 20th century, that's often people think Ellis Island, right, just as an example.
	Italians, Germans, Irish, they weren't from Mars and Venus.
	They came here, they learned English, right?
	Nothing but a nickel in my pocket.
	They built the Empire State Building and paid taxes, and we're happy to do it.
	If people come here now who work off the books, don't speak the language, and can't even communicate with their neighbors.
	We have to get back to that.
	This is a golden ticket, and it should be valued.
	And I think it's been taken advantage of.
	I mean, it is, I do think living in America is, it's, in my opinion, it is a privilege.
	Like, I'm happy I'm here and that, you know, I don't have to look over my shoulder wondering, you know, where my next meal is going to come or wondering who's trying to hunt me down.
	I'm not going up against the cartel here.
	Right.
	You know, like, I don't have to worry about it to that extent.
	But I do think it's kind of...
	No, no, no, probably.
	I do think it's like, you get all these, like, I agree with a lot of your statements, but I don't know where, I don't know how we do that, like, realistically.
	Is it from deporting all peoples?
	Yeah.
	And here's why.
	And that's the policy.
	So for example, right now, people see it and they go, oh, ICE.
	Well, I've said to people, and I think since we agree, I can just present it to you very, very transparently.
	Right now, if you're here illegally, you can self-deport the CBP1 app.
	They'll pay for your flight.
	They'll give you $1,000 cash to go back to your country of origin, come back through the right way.
	If you don't, they're going to deport you.
	I think that's very fair.
	And I think the process should include, like I said, for legal immigration, language, or includes civics, but not language.
	My mom, when she went through the process, French can give you an idea.
	She was going through a naturalization process.
	Someone was there and had to have an interpreter.
	Does that seem right to you?
	I mean, I'm not going to answer that.
	Yes.
	I mean, I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	It does not seem right.
	Because she's French.
	She learned the language.
	She learned the language.
	And she put on her Sunday best, right?
	She was proud to do it.
	And there was someone there who looked like they couldn't care less, who couldn't speak the language.
	And you're going to have a more divided America until we acknowledge that these grievances are real and people want to preserve something special.
	But yeah, I think we've been doing it the other way.
	Granting amnesty, right?
	Being very lenient, open borders, and all of this was opposed.
	Now we have 99% reduction, 99.9, I think, percent reduction in interactions at the border.
	So it can be done.
	We were told it couldn't be done.
	A lot of people have self-deported because the message has been sent loud and clear.
	I think the messaging as far as the culture, what the expectations are, and reflected through policy, is a good start.
	And I just don't see anything wrong with someone who's here illegally, who, if they go back to their country of origin, all cultures are equal and come back through the process that everyone else has to go through.
	I think it's, people might say that's not compassion.
	I just don't agree.
	And that's fine.
	I guess the last point here for me.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Do you see anything wrong, which it seems like you do?
	For example, you take, let's say, a father of two kids.
	It really doesn't matter.
	Let's say an illegal immigrant's been here for 20 years.
	Been paying taxes during those 20 years and knows the language, but just as undocumented.
	Do you think there's an issue with the thing, because I know that people will then invariably go to what about the kids where it's not, and it's true.
	My heart does go out to those kids.
	They didn't commit any misdeed.
	Their parents did.
	Their parents absolutely did.
	And this went back to the conversation, right?
	Well, Reagan granted amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens.
	Disaster, because now that number is up by 450%.
	Didn't work.
	It only encouraged more.
	And so you do have to look at a certain point, right?
	What about this individual?
	You go, okay, let's look at the totality.
	Are we enabling the human trafficking trade?
	Yes.
	Are we enabling coyotes?
	Yes.
	Are we enabling the cartel?
	Yes.
	Are we enabling the erosion of our culture through this policy?
	Because the debate was, what about anchor bait?
	What about DREAMers?
	And people said, okay.
	Then the left said, you're not allowed to deport violent felons in our current prisons.
	So their approach has been an absolute approach, and I think it's been irreparably harmful.
	So yeah, now mine is pretty absolutist.
	It's, yeah, look, they committed a misdeed, the parents.
	The good news is you can go through the process and come here legally.
	I'm not saying it's going to be ideal for everyone, but it's going to be applicable and appropriate, I would say, for the overwhelming majority and better for the country.
	And better for these other countries, by the way.
	It's not good for people in Mexico to have these.
	I mean, it enables all kinds of horrible things to have open borders policy.
	Of course, and I do like, I don't want anyone to think, you know, a lot of Mexicans, for example, which I'm going back to that because that's obviously what my background is, but I don't want people to look at Mexicans and see us as felons or any of these bad, negative felons.
	No, I definitely don't.
	I definitely would agree with having like settled legals that are felons being deplorable.
	Yeah.
	I don't want us to have that sort of image.
	I will tell you this, though.
	No, I absolutely don't.
	And I don't think most people do.
	If I have an interaction with a Mexican-American immigrant and they don't speak the language, I immediately think of them as less American.
	That's my opinion.
	And so does my Latina lady.
	She'll hear Mexican ladies talking shit on her because she kind of looks white.
	She's Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese, so she looks more white.
	And they will think she doesn't speak and they'll just talk all kinds of crap on her.
	And she one time's like, you know, I would never say that about them.
	But she goes, but if I hear someone not speaking the language that I had to learn, why are we citizens of the same country?
	Why am I expected to?
	So I will say, it's not brown.
	It's, oh, this person has made no effort to respect what makes his country great.
	Is that fair?
	Do you think that's racist if it's language and culture-based?
	Perfectly clear.
	And I really appreciate you saying less American as opposed to less human.
	Yeah, no, of course.
	You're not less human.
	I would really appreciate that.
	No, we're all human beings created in the eyes of God.
	Yeah.
	But less American.
	I appreciate that.
	I see someone who, and I certainly see someone waving the Mexican flag as less American than the person waving the American flag.
	And I want my neighbors, by the way, I have Hispanic neighbors who wave the American flag.
	I mean, you go to Little Havana in Miami, those Cuban Americans, they're hardcore.
	You see American flags everywhere.
	I think of them as American as can be.
	But if someone is waving a foreign nation flag, I'm not saying they should be jailed like they would in other countries, like they would in almost all other countries, but I do view them as less American.
	That's fine.
	And I mean, I guess our freedoms that we're given here do allow us to do such things.
	I'm not saying I partake in that particular country in particular.
	And I get it if you have both and you want to celebrate your heritage.
	Give me an idea.
	I go to a good example, Armenians.
	I've been going to an Armenian Orthodox church.
	It doesn't mean I've converted, but I just, I like the priest there.
	He's very nice man.
	So these people, right, it's one of the oldest languages in existence.
	And you want to talk persecution, the Armenians.
	Everyone's trying to wipe them off the face of the map, right?
	They faced a real genocide.
	And they deliver the service in both Armenian and English.
	And it takes twice as long.
	Even though they're here and it's for the Armenian community, they're very grateful to be American and very welcoming.
	And that's a perfect example of preserving their culture, respecting their heritage, but acknowledging this is the country that gave us the opportunity to escape that.
	It's not like we don't have examples.
	We have plenty.
	And I think it's by design where people flagrantly disrespected it.
	Not everyone, but a lot of people do.
	I think that's fair.
	I mean, at least we can both agree that we want to save America.
	Yeah.
	And I hope you do well.
	And I hope you don't get undercut by an H-1B.
	Even people on the right, Elon Mutt, like their policies and I completely disagree with.
	I'm like, no, no, we don't need to uncap H-1Bs because then it just ends up whoever's cheapest.
	And then you can't have a country.
	That's fair.
	Thank you for your time, Mr. Crowder.
	Thank you, but I appreciate it.
	Yes, sir.
	Do you mind if I grab a push?
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, yeah, sure.
	No problem.
	Oh, now we're at that golden hour where it's nothing but glare on our eyes.
	Oh, my goodness.
	I got to send them up then, so I got it.
	Thank you, man.
	Appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Be well.
	Enjoy the rest of your day.
	Thank you, you too.
	I appreciate it.
	Well, there you have it.
	Maybe, hopefully, some minds were changed.
	Or, at the very least, people left with some new ideas to consider.
	Although I'm not sure how much considering Savannah is going to do going forward, but how about you?
	Anything new?
	Your mind change at all?
	Any new ideas?
	Let me know.
	And don't forget to join me next Monday, November 17th, for part two, where we dive into Snap EBT.
	And while there really is some great conversation, it also absolutely goes off the rails, including an appearance by this.
	We must do it.
	Whatever.
	All right, do you mind if I ask you to scooch in for the camera?
	I know it's going to be hard to navigate with a mascot head.
	Is this your furry name or your biological name?

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