Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

Oct. 23, 2023 - Louder with Crowder

01:16:22

"We're Moving Towards a Police State" Dinesh D'Souza Reveals How The FBI & CIA Target The Right!

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	🎵 Outro Music 🎵 🎵 Outro Music 🎵
	🎵 Outro Music 🎵 🎵 Outro Music 🎵
	All right, welcome everybody.
	Obviously, Steven is out today, but don't worry, I am here taking the reins.
	I don't do the sip like he does it because...
	Let's just be honest, I think maybe I would choke on accidents and spit water out.
	And, you know, we don't want to do that on a live show.
	Everybody's going to know it's never going to go away.
	It's just going to live on forever.
	But just remember, this is a live show Monday through Friday, 10 a.m.
	Eastern Time.
	We will be here.
	And I have a very special show for you today.
	I think you're going to really enjoy the topics that we've covered.
	And let me just before we get too deep into this, let me just tell you a little bit about some of the stories that we've covered in the past that really tie in directly to what we're going to be talking about with our guest today.
	We've repeatedly discussed the negative impact of government overreach and bureaucracy.
	We've done it when we talk about all the three-letter agencies, right?
	The FBI, the CIA.
	When we talk about Attorney General Merrick Garland's letter about the school boards and all the extremists, these concerned parents in Loudoun County was one of the big ones that we all talked about, but these concerned parents at the school board meetings are extremists and Need to be treated as such.
	And then who can forget Joe Biden going after MAGA in front of the Nazi-esque background with all of the red kind of, you know, color behind him.
	It was really bad optics.
	But you have the President of the United States singling out essentially half the country and saying that these are people that we need to be worried about.
	This is something that needs to be dealt with.
	These are extremists.
	These are white supremacists.
	These kind of labels and these things get thrown around all the time and they set up a system where
	things can go very wrong very quickly.
	And I've talked to you a number of times about other instances in history where that's happened.
	In Nazi Germany, how they kind of laid the groundwork for calling the Jews the problem, right?
	And the solution being, well, these people are subhuman.
	They're causing all of our problems, and so therefore the atrocities are justified.
	Or if you talk about it in Cambodia with the Khmer Rouge, they did similar things to this.
	Like, these people are going to be the problem.
	We have to take care of all of the intellectuals who want to keep us from becoming This agrarian superpower that can rule the world or whatever other group you want.
	Anytime you other a group and make them subhuman where they are a threat to democracy during COVID.
	People who didn't get the vaccine.
	Those are people that if they go to a hospital, they should have to stand outside and die of a heart attack because somebody else who had the vaccine is taking care of themselves and they should be treated first.
	Like that kind of thing.
	You don't have a job.
	You don't have a place to live.
	You don't have any ability to travel.
	Sounds a lot more like communist China than it does the United States of America.
	And he said, Stephen, many times talking about this, that candidates that are running for public office, not just president, but candidates in general, need to be ready to answer the question on defunding the FBI.
	Would you defund the FBI with all that we know now and all that you're going to learn today about the FBI and some of the things that it's doing?
	We need to get rid of these agencies in their current form.
	And for a while we talked about reform and we just feel like we're way past the ability to reform.
	But our next guest has been, uh, unfortunately well acquainted with government overreach and has decided to release, uh, another movie, uh, that I think is going to be really interesting and pretty impactful, uh, and a lot of fun to watch, uh, other than it scares the hell out of you.
	you. But here here's some highlights of the new movie Police State.
	Chief Division Council on D O. J. Approved the no not breach.
	you We want the subject to be on display.
	Doing the walk of shame, full visual impact.
	Any questions?
	Are we becoming a police state?
	The government told American citizens they couldn't go to church on Sunday.
	For the first time in my life, I say to myself, am I going to get a knock at the door?
	FBI warrant!
	Come to the door now!
	The Patriot Act and FISA were used against Donald Trump.
	These individuals have commissioned the biggest propaganda play in U.S.
	history.
	They don't go after the people that rigged the election.
	They go after the people that want to find out what the hell happened.
	We don't need to have a crime.
	What we need is a person to look at.
	And then we go find out what crime you did.
	FBI!
	Our focus is shifting.
	Our main priority as a bureau is going to be domestic terrorism.
	It really paints anybody who's right of center.
	If you're a pro-life, pro-family Catholic, they define you as radical.
	These are anti-government.
	We have freedom of religion and freedom of speech!
	Violent extremists, and they must be dealt with.
	We can do anything we want.
	Chilling stuff and if the cat's not already out of the bag, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome our next guest, Dinesh
	D'Souza.
	the next video.
	Dinesh, thank you very much for being with us.
	I know that you are probably a very busy man right now doing the promotion for this, but thanks for being with us here.
	It's a real pleasure.
	My first time here and it's quite a spot.
	It's an experience.
	When people come in, they're used to seeing studios where maybe it's a small room and somebody gets in front of a mic and they have a nice setup, but this is a sprawling complex, essentially, to do all the stuff that we do.
	We discuss stuff like this that will absolutely make your skin crawl.
	And then we do other comedy stuff where we have people dress up as film characters and make fun.
	And so we kind of, it goes the spectrum.
	We're fine with it.
	But so let me really quickly, I just want to tell people where they can find this right off the top.
	So PoliceStateFilm.net is where you go to get tickets for the premiere October 23rd and 25th.
	Now that's in theaters.
	You said you have around 700 theaters right now nationwide?
	Yeah, we've bought out hundreds of theaters, and the cool thing is if you go to the website, put in your zip code, boom, all the theaters around you will pop up, and then it's... I made the film for the theater, so it's really fun to see in the theater, but if you can't see it in the theater, then on Friday, October 27th, we have a virtual premiere where you can watch at home the full screening of the film, and then a live Q&A with Dan Bongino and me to follow, and it's all for the price of a movie ticket.
	Fantastic!
	So on the virtual premiere, do you still go to PoliceStateFilm.net for that?
	Yeah, it's the one-stop shop, and that's important because you can't go to the theater or go to Fandango.
	You have to buy the tickets off the website, so PoliceStateFilm.net is the place to go.
	Fantastic.
	Alright, PoliceStateFilm.net.
	Also, it'll be available on Rumble and other platforms and DVD after all of this is done, after the premiere and after the October 27th So tell us just a little bit about this film, right?
	So you've obviously dealt with this and I kind of alluded to that.
	Tell us kind of what made you think, okay, I need to make a film about this and really expose what's going on here.
	Was it your personal interactions or was it that plus more?
	No, I would say it wasn't my own personal case, even though I sort of got an early whiff of the police state.
	A little bit.
	I gotta say that in my case, which goes back to 2013, a campaign finance violation, and I did exceed the campaign finance law, I gotta say that up front, but normally it's an offense for which you'd get a slap on the wrist, a community service, or a fine.
	Rosie O'Donnell did the same thing, essentially, and did get the slap on the wrist.
	Well, Rosie O'Donnell did something actually far worse.
	Is it worse?
	Yeah, because what she did was she camouflaged her contributions to multiple candidates.
	She knew she was going above the limit because she kept changing the spelling of her name.
	So it was in one case it's R. O'Donnell, then it's Rosie O'Donnell, then it's Rosie, you know.
	So Rosie spelled with a Y.
	She was trying but not very hard.
	But in a blatant way and see that's what they're looking for is the intent to break the law which was not true in my case.
	I was giving money to a college friend and even when when my case came up I saw it as a one-off because I just made a film about Obama.
	You know, I know the guy is a vindictive narcissist and I thought, oh my gosh, I should have known there's a target on my back.
	He's going to unleash Eric Holder and his attack dogs.
	I didn't see my case then as being a prelude or a precursor to what would happen to Carter Page, Papadopoulos, Michael Flynn, of course now Trump.
	So I didn't see the police state coming with the rapidity that it has under Biden.
	I think the way I think about it is I flash back to when I first came to America at the age of 17 as an exchange student.
	This was actually in the very late 1970s.
	And as I learned about America, you know, I of course enjoyed the great abundance of America and the possibilities, the upward mobility.
	But I also learned that this country is great because it's got this bill of rights and you've got these enumerated rights which are not open for political negotiation.
	That's the key.
	That's the meaning of unalienable rights.
	You can't give them up.
	And majorities can't take them away.
	Right to free speech, right to conscience, right to assembly, to petition the government, equal rights and equal justice under the law.
	And so fast forward to now and ask yourself, Is a single one of those rights now completely secure?
	No.
	Every single one is in jeopardy.
	And so the chilling question pressed itself on me.
	Are we becoming a police state?
	And I thought, that's a very interesting topic for a movie.
	So it's not just about the FBI.
	It's not even just about the police agencies of the government.
	It's not just even about the government.
	Our police state sprawls even into the private sector.
	It's a weird octopus.
	Stretching across the private and public sector, both.
	But the film brings it home to you, I think, in a way that nothing else can.
	Yeah, well, and you and I talked about one of my greatest fears off-camera.
	I'm not sure that I'm gonna tell everybody.
	But it revolves around this and unjust incarceration, so...
	Nobody come after me for that, but I want to read a quote from you really quickly about Police State.
	So Police State, this is the quote directly.
	Police State is a movie that I never wanted to make because I never wanted America to get to a point where a movie like this needed to be made.
	I feel like the animal that alerts the herd to approaching danger so we can take precautionary steps before it's too late.
	I think that's fair because I've realized that a lot of people that do stuff like you do, whether it's people who are out there speaking up on Google—we had Dr. Robert Epstein in here—kind of felt like the same way, and that guy's the furthest thing from a Republican that you can probably imagine.
	Supported Hillary Clinton was definitely somebody in, you know, Bernie's camp if Bernie would be the nominee.
	Joe Biden was somebody that he supported as well, but he saw something that would tear at the fabric of our democracy, right?
	Our democratic republic could not survive if A corporation could do something like this.
	Now, we've focused a lot on this show talking about those big corporations and the influence they have, and you say that this kind of is an intersection of all of these different things.
	It's not just the three-letter agencies and the government.
	It's the private sector as well.
	And then, one of the most chilling things that we've seen historically in societies that become police states is your next-door neighbor.
	Because they've bought the lie that if they don't turn you in, they're against the state.
	They're against what these values that these corporations are espousing are.
	So you obviously, like you said, it wasn't necessarily a specific moment that led you to do this film.
	But what is the goal of the film?
	What do you want to see happen?
	I know you did 2000 Mules.
	And the goal there is much more clear.
	It's like, okay, we have to stop this particular practice with elections, and we need to make some headway there.
	Right, got that.
	That's pretty clear.
	What do we do here?
	What's the goal?
	Well, the goal here is to do what I think a documentary can do best, which is to raise a big question about society, to frame it in the correct way, which is to say to frame it in a fair and urgent way, To allow people to see for themselves and experience an unfolding storyline or phenomenon that really gets them to look into themselves and talk to others and think about it and then ask what can be done about it.
	So the film creates the awareness without which people don't act.
	So for example a lot of people are going to say You know, I'm not Donald Trump.
	I didn't go in the Capitol on January 6th.
	I didn't get into big fights with the cops.
	I pay my taxes.
	I'm a law-abiding guy.
	The FBI is not going to come to my door, Dinesh, and smash it in.
	Now, I think that guy could not be more wrong.
	And I even am approached by guys on the left, and they go, well, Dinesh, no one's banning me.
	You know, I'm not threatened by the DHS.
	And I go, yeah, but Could that be because you're helping to build the police state?
	In other words, our police state is... It's not a full-fledged police state yet.
	In fact, if it was a full-fledged police state, I admit, this film could not be made.
	And we wouldn't be doing this show.
	Yeah, we couldn't be doing this show.
	I'd be turning you in right now.
	Getting an award.
	Or vice versa.
	Come on!
	So anyway but my point is that that that we are moving we are hurtling toward a police state and and so the the line you quoted from me being an animal giving a warning too many Americans are like the antelope or the wildebeest that basically goes oh yeah I saw that too but it's just the wind Dinesh it's not a predator in the trees or maybe it is a predator but guess what I'm gonna hope it's not gonna land on my back maybe somebody else's back Yeah.
	So you want to raise the awareness not just of the Republicans, and we talked about this beforehand too, because I think the audience, like our audience certainly, this should not be a surprise to them, right?
	It'd be a very informative movie, but I see like a lot of head bobbing in the theater if a lot of our audience is there because they'll be like, this just connects, this lines up exactly with what we've been talking about.
	I get it, I understand it.
	Are you trying to reach that broader audience?
	Because I think We believe that you have to have a broader audience.
	This can't be us just preaching to the choir the whole time, and I know the adage is that's how you get them to sing, and that's fine.
	You want to mobilize people, but at the same time, you have to let other people in this process know what's going on.
	How do you do that effectively and really get across the whole political boundaries?
	Well, sometimes it is harder to do than at other times.
	So with my last film, 2000 Mules, because the topic was election fraud, the movie came out at a time, this was a year after the 2020 election, when people were already dug in.
	And so a lot of people were like, I knew it!
	I'm going to see this movie and it's going to validate what I think.
	And then there were other people who were like, I'm not going to see this movie.
	And in fact, there were so-called fact checks on the film, bogus fact checks, but nevertheless, they were like, we've seen this film, so you don't have to, you know?
	And I'm sure a lot of people were like, yeah, I'm not going to watch that film because I already know that this was the safest and securest election in history.
	So it was tough with 2,000 meals.
	And the police state, on the other hand, I think can reach a much wider audience, because almost everyone has a factual awareness of the things I'm describing.
	I mean, let's look at what we're talking about.
	We're talking about censorship.
	I mean, let's look at the characteristics of any police state.
	Let's look at North Korea, Iran, China, the old Soviet Union.
	What did those regimes have in common?
	Well, mass surveillance of citizens.
	Systematic censorship.
	Check.
	Indoctrination in the schools and universities and the media.
	Check.
	Propaganda.
	Check.
	The police states tend to be one-party states.
	Not that they don't have elections.
	China has elections.
	Iran has elections.
	But they don't allow effective opposition.
	They criminalize, they try to lock up effective leaders of the opposition party.
	check, criminalization of dissent, political prisoners.
	So just go down the list and you realize, whoa, not just most, all of the things I just
	mentioned are now here in the United States.
	Now- Some further along than others, right?
	Some further along than others.
	And much more obvious.
	And the weird thing about this debate is also that you will find people on the left and
	you say, do you think America's becoming a police state?
	And their answer is, Dinesh, 100%.
	the perpetrator of the police status Trump or the Republicans are the ones who are trying to take away our liberties.
	They're trying to shut down abortion.
	They're trying to go after the trans.
	So, freedom is interpreted in that way, and using that lens.
	So, the way I frame this film is a little original.
	It's not just, are we becoming a police state?
	But, who's right?
	If we are moving toward a police state, is the threat coming from the left or from the right?
	And I set up the film by saying, alright, we can answer that question if we know what is a police state.
	How it got started, how it's organized, how it works, and who's behind it, and who is in charge.
	And once we know the answer to those questions, you'll know where the threat is coming from.
	And you used a lot of very public examples of this.
	And honestly, I didn't know all of the details for all of this, but there were a couple that struck me.
	The first guy that you used, and I forget his name, you probably remember it, who went to January 6th, had some footage.
	Yeah, thank you.
	So he went there, had some footage, never went in, never violated, to my understanding, any laws that you would know, okay, well, I'm crossing a boundary and I'm making the choice to do that or not.
	He just was there, had some footage, and was showing some friends back at his bar, not his bar, but at a bar he frequented.
	And all of a sudden, a neighbor of his turns him in.
	So give us just a little bit of insight into that.
	Cause for me, that was one of the most average everyday American stories.
	This isn't like a public figure.
	This isn't somebody who was kind of skating on the edge.
	This is somebody just happened to be there on January 6th.
	And in fact, was quoted in the movie as saying, I started seeing guys climbing the walls and it was like, ah, something's wrong here.
	I think I'm, I think I'm done.
	You know, I think I'm absolutely.
	You've got, you know, a 75-year-old guy who walks with a cane, and this is a guy who almost wanted to be there just to be part of a historic event, so to speak.
	He was intrigued by Trump, but he wasn't a full-scale Trumpster, and he certainly did not go inside the Capitol.
	But this comes back to what you alluded to a few minutes ago about informants.
	the idea of your neighbor and of course in police states your wife you know your
	kids are calling you in and so a neighbor calls him in but the
	remarkable thing isn't just that someone felt to do that you know that that
	little tyrannical impulse in all of us I'm gonna get this guy I'm gonna be you
	know it's the mentality that makes one want to be an apparatchik in a regime
	A very interesting psychology.
	The other interesting thing is that the FBI made no effort to verify that this guy went in the Capitol.
	Instead, they deploy a SWAT team.
	And he's over actually at his mom's house so they sent two SWAT teams.
	One to his apartment where he wasn't and they smash into it and he's not there.
	Then they go to his mom's rehabilitation center and they smash that place in and they go arrest him there.
	And then they subject him to six or seven hours of interrogation in an FBI truck Where the guy is so flustered.
	In fact, he's flustered in part because he sees NBC showing up with the cameras.
	And think of it, this is all coordinated, isn't it?
	They tip off the media.
	Public humiliation is the name of the game here.
	And the guy has a stroke.
	Yeah.
	So all of this, this is what I think documentaries do.
	They unfurl a narrative and the beauty of this guy is he's a high-tech guy and he's a little, you know, he's scared.
	He lives alone so he installed cameras in his own apartment.
	I saw that, yeah.
	So he has direct footage of what the FBI is doing and I think very telling when the FBI comes to his door They try to cover the camera.
	They don't want recorded footage, but they don't realize he has a second camera, and so we got the footage, and it's in the movie.
	But it's very creepy, because you begin to realize it could easily happen to you.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And look, that's one of the reasons that we got so frustrated with this whole, and I'm not going to derail on January 6th, but the January 6th hearings.
	And the Adam Kinzinger and, gosh, I'm losing her name, Liz Cheney, giving that credibility When it was really just political theater like it wasn't a real investigation and two republicans who wanted to I guess be at the cool kids table essentially gave something that should have had no credibility credibility and now not only do we feel like
	Maybe those guys that turned him in felt like, hey, that's justified.
	He was there.
	Maybe I am helping the government catch a real criminal because I saw they had hearings on this.
	This was the worst attack on democracy in our country's history, and it was the worst attack on us since 9-11.
	It was 9-11 Part 2, essentially.
	Like, people making that equivocation and not immediately saying, well, no, hold on, here's what happened.
	That's why it's so dangerous, because it sets the stage for everybody to go, you were there January 6th.
	Yes, and this is where a lot of conservatives miss the point, because they will say, what a ridiculous analogy.
	This was not an insurrection.
	You can't compare it to the Civil War.
	Or even when Hillary Clinton said very recently, you know, these MAGA guys are sort of cult guys.
	They need to be formally reprogrammed.
	Now, what's Hillary Clinton doing?
	And some people go, well, here she goes again!
	Basket of deplorables!
	No, no, no.
	What Hillary's doing is the same thing that happened, for example, at Waco in the 1990s, which is, when you say that somebody's an occult, and you make them into being a complete weirdo, you're dehumanizing them.
	For sure.
	Right?
	And the American people in the 1990s were horrified when they saw all those buildings burning at Waco, but they were like, well, it's not me.
	Those people were kooks.
	Yeah.
	They were cult members, they were up to God knows what, and that's why this happened.
	So that's what Hillary's going for.
	She's trying to turn the political opposition, she wants to dehumanize us as maybe a prelude or a leading up to incarceration and of course in the Nazi case it was also
	extermination so this can go down a very dangerous road dark road very dark very
	quickly and I and I you know we're you're always careful using the Nazi
	comparison right because people say that and I say well look I'm careful using it
	but it's one of the most instructive pieces of history that we have on how this
	can play out and if people are uncomfortable with that well let's go to the Khmer
	Rouge right I spent some time in Cambodia and Phnom Penh and I saw the
	killing fields I was Sam Waterton I think or I think that's his name the guy
	from now I'm forgetting Ah, Law and Order.
	There we go.
	The dudunt was playing in my head.
	I just couldn't think of it.
	He is in that movie, and they basically have a camp out in the rice fields, kind of in the countryside of Cambodia, and they bring a child up to the board, and there's stick figures drawn on the board of two, obviously, parents holding the hands of two children.
	Right?
	And the child walks up and is not given any instruction, but takes the eraser and
	erases the part where it's holding the parents holding the child's hand.
	Basically saying like, I do not belong to my parents.
	I belong to the state.
	Right?
	And so kind of creating this, if you're a good citizen, you are
	serving the state above all else.
	You are serving the common good.
	Get your COVID vaccination above all else.
	Wear your mask and make sure that you close down your business above all else.
	And these other people will just drip.
	We'll keep dripping on these people so that eventually you think of them as being kind of these subhuman people.
	It happened In Nazi Germany the same way.
	It happened in Cambodia in pretty much the same way.
	It's happened in countries in Africa that have had these crazy, um, you know, the killing fields in the kind of the same way these people are subhuman.
	And that's why we push back on it.
	Uh, but, uh, before I get too far, I guess, down that trail, sorry, I just, uh, it's just, it really irritates me when people don't follow one of the most easy to follow lessons in all of history, which is Nazi Germany in the 1930s.
	Like read about the 1930s, what was going on.
	One of the things we do in the film with that is we use an analogy to the Reichstag fire.
	Now, again, when we're talking about the Nazis, there is Hitler circa 1933, and that's really where I think the examples are useful, because Hitler wasn't, quote, Hitler.
	I mean, in other words, you didn't have the Holocaust, you didn't have the final solution.
	So when we think of Nazi Germany, we tend to think about the death camps and so on,
	but that comes later.
	Early in 1933, Hitler is the chancellor, but he's not a dictator yet.
	And then what happens is a foreign communist burns the Reichstag, the German parliament.
	And initially it's not clear who did it, but Hitler implies the dark conspiratorial
	forces did it.
	In fact, Hitler says this was an insurrection, and Hitler says we have to relentlessly go
	after the people who did this.
	And to do that, I need police powers.
	I need to suspend civil liberties.
	I need censorship.
	And all of this is then handed to him by the German parliament, and then Hitler becomes
	a dictator.
	He becomes what we now know as Hitler.
	He builds the opposition.
	So the Reichstag fire is instructive historically because it shows how an incident, a real incident, can nevertheless be manipulated, used as a pretext for a widespread crackdown and suspension of civil liberties.
	So I think this is the relevance of January 6th.
	It was a Reichstag fire event.
	It's not that it wasn't an event, it was, but by manipulating the meaning of the event, and as you say, the terminology of the event, you can then justify, now we need to ramp up digital censorship.
	Now you can't even talk about a stolen election because, hey, guess what, you're one of the insurrectionists.
	And so January 6th in that sense becomes a pivotal, and I think for the first time in our country's history, In non-wartime, we have political prisoners.
	We've had political prisoners in wartime, and we can talk about that, but in non-wartime, I can't think of good examples of that, and January 6th, I think, will be seen historically as a very ugly first.
	It will absolutely, and you're talking like 17, 18, 20 year prison terms for people in the Department of Justice coming back for seconds now.
	I don't know if you read that recently.
	I did, I did.
	But that's something that should send kind of a chill down everybody's spine who's watching this.
	You can think what you want to think about what happened on January 6th, but you think they should be getting more prison time than a rapist?
	Let me make one further point on January 6th, because I think this gets to the heart of the false narrative.
	And I think this is an original point that is made in the film, namely this.
	According to the kind of January 6th committee's official narrative, the Trumpsters went into the Capitol because they were trying to stop an official proceeding.
	What was that official proceeding?
	Well, according to the narrative, it was the certification of the election.
	But if you think about it, and if you pay attention to what was actually going on in that proceeding, that was not happening at all.
	There was an official proceeding, but it was a different proceeding.
	It was called contesting the election.
	And there were many Republicans, and I'm talking about mainstream Republicans, Ted Cruz and others, they were going to challenge Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, they were going to challenge the election in the swing states.
	That is the process that somebody wanted to stop.
	The Democrats.
	They didn't want the questioning of the election to occur.
	So think about it.
	January 6th was actually not what the Trumpsters wanted.
	The Trumpsters wanted the opposite.
	They wanted the questioning of the election to continue.
	And yet, the moment that you had January 6th, the Republicans were so sort of downcast and dejected that they came right back and they're like, OK, forget about all that.
	Let's just certify Biden.
	So January 6th was a bonanza for the left.
	And I think by twisting that history, we got the false narrative that has been one-sidedly promulgated by the January 6th committee.
	Well, so let me dive in kind of off of that, because you had a lot of people questioning whether there were feds involved with January 6th.
	Were they just embedded?
	Were they there trying to stop potential plots?
	I understand that.
	You've got a very large crowd in Washington.
	You've got a very charged atmosphere.
	You've got a very kind of charismatic president who has lost an election in their eyes, but has basically been cheated out of an election in most of his followers' eyes.
	We never really got answers as to how many federal agents were involved with that because there were people like Ray Epps and I know that some stuff has happened with him that was kind of a lightning rod for it because there's film there's footage of him saying we're gonna go to the Capitol and people are like Fed Fed this guy's a Fed right and he's seen there whispering to somebody right before they start doing so with these agencies Do you think that we should defund the FBI and some of the other agencies potentially?
	Let's start with the FBI and not lump them in with other people because you can think about this.
	And yes, please comment below and let me know what you think.
	Do we defund the FBI?
	And if we do, what should we put in its place?
	Well, these agencies have become rotted through and through.
	Now, that itself requires a little bit of explanation because it's a bit of a puzzle.
	Many people who go into the FBI are conservative.
	They are guys with a military background.
	They're patriotic guys.
	So, it's not correct to say that kind of an evil force has taken over the FBI from top to bottom.
	That makes no sense.
	In fact, no police state functions that way.
	The genius of every police state is it figures out how to make good people do really bad things.
	So let's look at a really bad thing.
	An FBI agent at 5.30 in the morning smashes the apartment of a 70-year-old grandmother who, let's say, went into the Capitol for 15 minutes.
	Yeah.
	Goes up to her, she resists, so he grabs her by the hair, twists her arms behind her back, puts the handcuffs on her, she resists some more, so he pulls her down the stairs, out into the street, her neighbors come out and gawk at her, they're like, oh my god, the woman is just absolutely destroyed and humiliated, so what would cause a nice guy, a decent guy with a family, lives in a three-bedroom house, to do this?
	I think I can answer that question.
	And that is, what police states do is they operationalize or bureaucratize the task at hand.
	They never say what the ultimate goal is.
	They merely define a sort of a project.
	A few weeks ago, I was watching a documentary on Waco, and they were talking to the FBI.
	They call him a hostage negotiator, but he's basically a killer.
	He's a sniper.
	And he goes, yeah, listen, when all else fails, they bring me in, right?
	And the interviewer asks him, they go, hey, you know, did you know who David Koresh was?
	Did you know anything about Waco, about the people in there, the Branch Davidians?
	He goes, no.
	He goes, when I come in, they just point and tell me, there's a bad guy.
	There's an enemy of truth and justice and the American way.
	Take out your long rifle, kill that guy.
	And so this guy is like a soldier, you know?
	So he defines his task as he is serving his country, he's doing a good job, he will get a bonus and a promotion if he carries out his duty.
	And his duty, as defined here, is take out that bad guy.
	So I think what happens with the police state is that you've got good guys who get the idea that, hey, the FBI is not that interested right now in child trafficking.
	They're not interested right now in even the old-style mafia stuff that made them famous.
	They're interested in domestic extremists.
	And if you want to be cool with the FBI, you want to be part of the in-crowd, you want to get a nice bonus at the end of the year, you don't want to be seen as a troublemaker, you want to retire with a nice pension...
	This is what you do.
	Don't ask her, so don't worry about the grandmother.
	The courts will deal with her.
	Your job is just to apprehend her and this is how we do it.
	Well and trust in the institutions that are here that have, I mean historically maybe they've never been completely trustworthy, but as Americans we have had a lot more trust in our institutions than we have in the last say 20 years.
	Some of the wool has been kind of pulled over eyes, I think for a long time, but now we're thinking like okay
	Wait a minute. Maybe we can't just give blind trust to this I remember you made me think of something like how do
	normal people end up doing horrible things?
	Well, it's happened. It happened in Germany in that example Do you think that they were a more murderous people like
	the Germans wanted to go and kill?
	Innocent people men women and children No, they weren't more murderous than their neighbors were.
	It happened there for a very specific set of reasons, and it shows you that populations can turn into these very kind of evil things.
	I remember in high school I asked my professor, because he was talking to me about ancient history, his history professor, and he was talking about the Assyrians, and they would do public peelings and public disembowelments to keep people in line, these communities that they had conquered.
	And I just thought to myself, like, how do these guys go home?
	And he goes, no, I know, like these soldiers go home to their wife, they go home to their kids, and they've done these barbaric things to them.
	And he says, do you think they loved it?
	No, I don't think that that's the easy answer that we can just apply to everybody.
	It was in service of the state.
	You can't just convince people to do bad things.
	Hamas is a really good example of this, I think, as well.
	And obviously, we've had that issue that happened a little while ago with the Gaza Hospital and all the stuff that had come out there.
	Like, oh, well, actually, Hamas lied, right?
	The hospital wasn't hit.
	It was the parking lot that was hit, and it was actually one of the missiles being fired by the Islamic Jihad, which is kind of, again, the basic name of jihad.
	Like, all of them are Islamic, and all of them jihad.
	They didn't really put a lot of effort into the branding there.
	They just kind of went with the most basic title.
	And you're seeing what happens is you're convincing people that this is in service to something greater than yourself, and these are the enemies.
	They're trusting in the Islamic leadership in Hamas, right?
	They're trusting, like, these are enemies of us.
	Trust me, this is what God wants you to do.
	The Assyrians are trusting in their leadership, saying, trust me, if we don't do this to these populations, they will try and overthrow us and kill you and your family.
	And so they put that on the chopping block.
	And I think what's happening right now In the United States is conservatives are the enemy because they don't care about you.
	Covid kind of laid some of the groundwork for that.
	It continued it.
	And they're not interested in having free and fair elections.
	They're interested in installing a dictator in Donald Trump.
	And so in the film, you talk quite a bit about President Trump and what's been going on and kind of alluding to him in different parts of the film.
	With the FBI, we talked about maybe getting rid of that.
	Let me let me go circle back to that before I get to Trump, because that'll lead us down another path.
	If that's true, how do we get rid of the rot, right?
	You've got, like you said, probably a bunch of good people working at the FBI.
	Hardworking Americans that love their country, that want to serve their country, that aren't the bad guys.
	But you've apparently got a lot of people in positions of power that are wielding that power in a very corrupt way.
	How do we solve that problem?
	Because this is what your film highlights.
	And we want to know solutions.
	This isn't, and I don't think you're here to say, just go watch the movie and be outraged with me and maybe tell a few of your friends about it, but it's a solution.
	So what's the solution?
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, the solution to the FBI is really the same as the solution to any institution that has been corrupted in this way.
	I mean, this would apply, for example, to a university faculty.
	If you think about how would you take over a university by the left, It is that they take over the key faculty committees that hire people, and so they're able to self-perpetuate.
	Then they're powerful enough that they get veto power over the president, so that even if the board of trustees goes, we got this business guy, we want to bring him in, they're like, no, he's not confirmed on the left.
	you know, find somebody else. So you have to dismantle that power
	structure. You don't have to... I don't think you have to burn the FBI
	building. That's not going to do anything.
	No. You have to identify the key areas. Also crime, Dinesh.
	We can't do that.
	No, no, no. Of course, you know what I mean.
	It's take down the bill.
	People are like, you know, we've got to take it down from the top to the bottom.
	No, what I'm getting at is what we need to do is identify where these corrupt centers of power are, dismantle those, and then create a healthy structure of incentives where people really want to do the kind of fair law enforcement work the FBI was set up to do.
	So in that sense, the institution can be reformed, but reform normally suggests just some kind of cosmetic change, like changing the director.
	No, that will not do it.
	You have to burrow down into the bureaucracy.
	A point about Hamas that really struck me was, I think this phenomenon about sort of boasting about your brutality is something that goes even beyond the Nazis.
	I mean, this seems ridiculous to say, right?
	Because people will say, you can't compare it to the Nazis.
	I think this is actually a comparison in favor of the Nazis, if I can put it that way.
	Because think about it, when the Nazis established death camps, Not the concentration camps, because concentration camps were labor camps.
	Right.
	But death camps were gas chambers.
	Yep.
	Right?
	How can you systematically eradicate a people in the most efficient way possible?
	And you'll notice that not a single death camp is in Germany.
	Right.
	Every death camp is in Poland or the occupied territories.
	Now, why is that?
	Because the Nazis didn't want to show it to the Germans.
	They were not, in that sense, proud of what they were doing.
	And so that is a little different from sometimes This terrorist exhibitionism that we see these days, where a terrorist group revels in the amount of carnage that they've caused, almost as if that is a measure of their effectiveness.
	And that is really what thrills the sort of terrorist lobby all over the world.
	Wow!
	Who would have thought Hamas could get into Israel with a thousand guys coming, you know, imaginatively from the sky, and then just, you know, having their way with them.
	It struck me that, you know, that even though the Nazi analogy can be overdone, in this case, we might even be seeing things that are, in some sense, worse.
	Yeah, well, and I think it's the crossing of all the things that we've been talking about are the intersection with that and, obviously, religion.
	Right.
	And so it kind of brings an entirely new level of commitment from people who are committed to a religion.
	And so I think, interestingly, you know, I think you've got the right point on the FBI.
	I think it needs to be defunded.
	Like we've talked about like taking it down to the studs.
	I think there needs to be something like that done with them to get an agency, because you need some kind of an agency to serve some of the functions, right?
	Because you've got investigating terrorism, you've got drugs and human trafficking, you've got a lot of legitimate functions that the FBI can serve, but you don't need the FBI.
	So my next question, I guess, will lead into Donald Trump.
	Let's say that Trump gets elected.
	President Trump, he's leading in all the polls right now in the primary.
	Nobody's ever lost with the kind of lead he's had, right?
	We'll talk about a few things maybe that are potentials for him.
	If he gets back in and disbands the FBI, do you think the left is going to view that as a correction or as an authoritarian move?
	Meaning, the kind of disbanding that we've talked about, like, okay, we have to really dig down in and get the rot out of the FBI.
	Do you think they're going to see that as a correction or as, see, we told you, he's going to be authoritarian, he's never going to leave office again?
	The left will absolutely see it that way.
	They will see it as Trump is now wreaking vengeance on the people who tried to get him.
	And to some degree, I think that perception is going to be unavoidable.
	I'm actually not so worried about that right now.
	I'm more worried about the Republican psychology, the right-of-center psychology, that doesn't recognize the sort of peril that we are in as a country with regard to our basic rights.
	When it comes to the FBI, for example, I would say that one half of Republican members of Congress are going to be immediately frozen when you bring up the topic because they're like, wait a minute, we thought we were back the blue.
	How can we be back the blue and at the same time against the FBI?
	This is going to be too confusing a message for my constituents, Dinesh.
	And I'm like, wait a minute.
	Police states are inherently lawless.
	What the FBI is doing is abusing its credibility and its prosecutorial discretion and the intelligence function it was set up to do.
	It's abusing all of that so there's nothing inconsistent with being back the blue and supporting law and order and then opposing the abuse of law and order.
	Exactly.
	But Republicans in this sense are very reluctant to modify traditional positions that really go back to the Reagan era, but I think are obsolete today.
	The difference is, I don't know if you've seen the man who shot Liberty Valance, but In the beginning you got Jimmy Stewart and he's a goofball guy, he's a law and order guy, and he's like, I'm not going to be like these criminals, you know, I rely on my books and I'll call the authorities if I need to.
	Now if you're living in a peaceful town with a good sheriff and a good system, you can be that way.
	Focus on your books.
	But if you go out in a covered wagon out west, and you're surrounded by outlaws with guns, and they want to burn your homestead and rape your wife and kill your kids, and you're like, I'm not gonna go for my rifle because I'm better than they are, I'm a man of principle, you know?
	You'll be a dead man of principle.
	You would be and nobody would even know what to say to you Yeah, and and so that's kind of what my film is intended to say is listen We are not in normal politics in America.
	We are seeing in a very short time Rights that we took for granted really since the founding being Seriously imperiled and the forces that are doing this.
	I mean they're in academia.
	They're in the media They're in the nonprofit sector.
	They are the digital platforms.
	They're in government I mean, you're dealing with a very formidable combination of forces, so this is not even something that is fixed by an election.
	It's going to take an election, but a lot more.
	It's going to definitely take a lot more.
	And look, the only reason we get to do this kind of stuff and the only reason we exist is because of Mug Club, so do consider joining Mug Club for $89 a year.
	It's how we do everything that we do.
	You get all of the shows that you see here.
	You also get our Friday show that we added.
	We have Nick DiPaolo.
	We have Alex Jones.
	We have Brian Callan.
	We've got the Hodge Twins doing a show now.
	We've got Mr. Guns and Gear keeping you informed on all of your Second Amendment rights and all of the different guns that are out there.
	But then we have our undercover unit, and we have a lot of the campaigns that we're kind of standing up To really fight back in a lot of ways, instead of just talking to you about this stuff, kind of like Dinesh, you know, like it's not just about talking about these issues and going, all right, I sold another book or I got another movie deal.
	It's about actually getting something done.
	And I think for us, we've, we developed Mug Club specifically because of the censorship, censorship that we've kind of fought through with big tech, specifically YouTube, right?
	dealt with a lot of things and we deal with it all the time, but it goes back to the Vox
	Apocalypse where Susan Wojcicki was talking about Steven and saying, he didn't break any
	rules but we're going to make some new rules so that that way it's taken care of and we
	can just kind of say he broke some rules.
	And so now he's demonetized and his reach is limited and he's throttled and he's got
	a strike on his account so he can't talk about the 2022 midterms because we had Carrie Lake
	on the show.
	I get a strike because I quoted the California CDC where four out of the last 10 years the
	The flu was more deadly for children.
	At the time, this was California information, the flu was more deadly four of the last ten seasons than COVID was at the time, right?
	And we were just talking through those things, or even the laptop, the Hunter Biden laptop that was apparently Russian disinformation.
	We fight that same fight, and I think you're right, people don't really know that.
	But here's one case where I think a lot of people will come together.
	And go, yeah, this doesn't quite seem right.
	And that's President Trump.
	This is playing out in front of our eyes.
	And you can feel about him however you want to feel.
	You can think that he's brash.
	You can think that he's a mean tweeter, or exer, or poster.
	I'm not even sure what they call it anymore with the name change here.
	You can think that he's not the most moral man that you've ever met.
	He's made some very bad comments about people he picked.
	Whatever you want to think about him.
	He was very effective.
	Liberals, we showed you that clip a while back of the liberal billionaire, part owner I think of the Golden State Nuggets that came out and said, we shot the message because we didn't like the messenger.
	That he was talking about building a wall and we didn't like that he was talking about building a wall, so we didn't.
	And now we're dealing with all of the consequences.
	So you're starting to see people change a little bit.
	Even on the left, do you think what's happening with President Trump right now?
	First off, talk maybe just a little bit about what you think is going on here.
	And do you think that's enough of a wake-up call for people across the entire spectrum of Americans to maybe go, wait a minute, the deep state really is a thing.
	The police state really is a thing.
	Well, I think that there are some people on the left who are... They're so...
	Discombobulated by the very name Trump.
	And this is because of the relentless engine of propaganda and indoctrination that they're not able to look at this issue objectively at all.
	In fact, the only way they would see it objectively is if you change the name of the country, and you change the name of the man, and you said, you know, in Poland there's this man, let's just call him Donald Trumpski, you know?
	The opposition party has arrested him, and he's the leading candidate of the other party, and they haven't just put a single criminal charge on him for something obvious like, oh, you know what, he was found with suitcases of money that came from, you know, that would actually be Biden.
	Yeah, I was about to say, you're describing someone else now.
	Right, exactly.
	But he's hit with 90 plus charges.
	I think people would get it right away.
	The US government would be calling that country a banana republic, and Human Rights Watch would be all over it.
	Look, with Trump, if they had mounted a single charge and they had said, all right, Trump, you took these classified documents.
	Now, we asked you for them back, but you're a stubborn guy and you're like, I'm not giving them back.
	And so, you know, we're going to put a single criminal charge on you to sort of convey the seriousness of this matter.
	We would be like, let's look at the facts.
	Let's look at the merits of it.
	But when you have this blizzard of charges, this shotgun approach, where it's like, listen, you know, if we can't get you in D.C., we'll get you in Florida.
	Can't get you in Florida?
	How about Georgia?
	If it's not a federal case, our Soros-funded state DAs will move in.
	If we can't get you in Georgia, you know, in New York, and if we can't get you on the criminal case, we'll wreck your business with a civil case.
	I mean, this is police state thuggery as naked as it comes.
	And I think it is because they do fear that Trump is the most dangerous opponent of the police state.
	I think it's because he is the least bound by political convention.
	You know, any other Republican will quickly fall into line if you say, you're not allowed to talk about firing civil servants.
	You know, you're not allowed to say that the Justice Department is an extension of the executive branch.
	You're not allowed to call up Kim Jong-un on the phone.
	If you go to a meeting you're supposed to- He's President!
	Come on!
	Well, this is what makes Trump unique.
	Any other president that met with, let's just say, Kim Jong Un would come out and say, we had a very meaningful dialogue.
	We made significant progress on human rights.
	When Trump comes out, he goes, you know, I asked him, you know, what does he think of his nickname Rocketman, you know?
	And then I told him, he's like, what's Rocketman?
	I gave him a CD, you know?
	And he was really short, but he laughed a lot.
	I mean, Trump actually tells you what it's actually like to be in the room.
	And this is why I think there are people in this country who aren't actually all that political in their bones, but they identify with Trump because he has this kind of normal way of speaking.
	Surprisingly.
	Surprisingly.
	For a billionaire, kind of popular, very well-known worldwide guy, he kind of almost was going to say he has a little bit of an everyman kind of personality in some ways.
	Or at least he says things that he's, we're thinking.
	He says what we want Trump's dad used to say to him, you know, we're not Manhattan, we're Queens.
	locked you up. That kind of thing really resonated with a lot of people. It was like, that's
	right! Don't be nice, go after these people.
	Well, Trump's dad used to say to him, you know, we're not Manhattan, we're Queens. And
	this is really important because Trump, although he grew up rich, he grew up rich sort of in
	the outer boroughs of New York.
	His dad had, you know, rent control, apartments, that he was, you know, they made money that way and Manhattan to them was a different place.
	Trump still has some of that.
	And I think that's what people identify with.
	Yeah.
	So let me, we'll go right back to Trump in just a second, but of the other candidates right now, if let's just imagine a world where Donald Trump is not running for president in 2024, who else of the candidates that we have now would be capable or at least willing to go after the police state in your mind?
	In my mind, there would be, of the rest of them, only two.
	I think I can guess, but tell me.
	I would say DeSantis and Vivek.
	Sorry, Vivek like cake.
	He was in here, we did an interview with him recently and that was how he did it.
	Yes, those are the two that I would think as well.
	So with Ron DeSantis, obviously because of his kind of track record as governor of Florida, we've been very, you know, we've had a lot of praise for Ron DeSantis until his campaign started and then he got a little bit It seems like he fell into the mold of past Republican candidates that kind of distanced themselves from Trump just a little bit and were like, ah, don't run away from what made you great as governor.
	Just be that guy.
	He also did not defend Trump where it was completely appropriate to defend Trump.
	I think that was a serious judgment error.
	I also think that, you know, if I were Trump and I sailed through to the nomination, The first thing I would do, even though I don't think this is what Trump will do, is I would call Ron DeSantis.
	And I would tell him, Ron, I can bring the big personality and the charisma, and I'm maybe the guy that the Republican base and the country can identify with because I speak a normal language, but you do have a ruthless operational efficiency that you brought to Florida.
	that we need in the federal government. In other words, I'm going to ask you to go into the FBI,
	burrow into the bureaucracy, and root out the corruption.
	And then I want you to do that to seven other institutions. So DeSantis would have a
	tremendous amount of scope and power.
	But, so in other words, I guess what I'm saying is politically, I think that there's a complementary
	set of strengths that DeSantis and Trump bring to the table.
	And Vivek has a lot of strengths as well.
	And Vivek has done some of the things right that DeSantis hasn't, which is why Vivek has gotten more traction than one would have expected.
	Yeah, and he's seen kind of as an outsider.
	He's a CEO.
	He's a businessman.
	He's succeeded.
	He really follows that Trump model quite a bit, except he seems very polished.
	And Trump was very brash.
	Vivek seems a little bit more kind of polished in that regard.
	But he is kind of like, if Donald Trump is not running and you're looking for that, he seems to embody that more than any other candidate.
	I guess the next question is, we were only able to name two.
	Why, I mean, is it just that, you know, and I like Tim Scott.
	I know Nikki Haley has been a part of a lot of this stuff.
	Are these people too close to the forest for the trees?
	Are they basically not seeing the problem, not capable of fighting against the problem because they're, I guess, beholden?
	I don't know.
	Well, my reading of it is that they are still living in the Reagan era.
	Yeah.
	And I say this as someone who, I mean, I My political formation is in the Reagan era.
	I went to college at Dartmouth when Reagan was first running for president, and so it was that appreciation of Reagan as kind of an embodiment of American idealism, someone who understood the issues, but Reagan was a president when the main problem was abroad.
	It was the Cold War.
	The threat was communism in Russia, U.S.
	history.
	Now we are in a kind of a domestic Cold War with a very no less sort of fanatical adversary to be honest and we need people who recognize that the world has changed.
	I mean it goes back really to even the Republican Party in the 1850s was completely incapable of recognizing the perilous situation facing the country.
	Part of the genius of Lincoln was that even though he came out of the moderate wing of the party You would almost say he was a kind of rhino in his own day.
	When he came to Washington, he recognized immediately that the Democratic Party had become gangsterized, and that the old tactics of Henry Clay-style compromises and constantly appeasing these guys was not going to work.
	And so Lincoln's view is... You could be describing the last 20 years right now.
	That's right.
	Easily.
	Maybe even a little bit more than that.
	But those, the whole, okay, we'll just pacify.
	It's always the Republicans' fault.
	It's always the Democrats' way or the highway on these bills.
	And we get pushed around even when we have majorities.
	Right.
	Exactly.
	I don't know how.
	No, I mean, you take Mike Pence, and it's one thing, you know, I even agree with Mike Pence when he says, all right, I'm the vice president, my task on that day was sort of custodial and ceremonial, I don't think I had the constitutional authority to just push the election back to the states.
	Maybe he's right about that.
	But someone like that has got to address the larger issue, which is to say, was there systematic fraud in this election that needs some sort of attention?
	Maybe you're not the guy to do it, maybe that was not the time or the place, but to just say that one thing and then zip hunt.
	Exactly.
	And I think that's the sputtering frustration of the Republican base.
	And this is really why people went to D.C.
	on January 6th.
	It's like, who is going to look at this?
	Who is going to look at this substantively?
	Not some local court that goes, hey, listen, you may or may not be right, but you should have brought this challenge before the election.
	And then if you brought the challenge before the election, hey, you may or may not be right, but listen, the election hasn't even happened, so why are you suing over imaginary crimes that haven't yet occurred?
	So this kind of evasiveness, I think, drove just the primal scream that became January 6th.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And it's frustrating because those are the kinds of things that lead to actual, when people talk like, are we at the level of civil war?
	The answer we've given people is no, but you're at the point where you have to fight for your country in different ways.
	You have to elect good leaders.
	You have to be aware of what's going on.
	You have to push back on states or state police kind of thing.
	No, sorry, not individual states.
	Gosh, sometimes your brain just kind of mixes words together.
	The police state, not the state police.
	Stateys, they're fine.
	What I'm talking about.
	Is you have to be aware of what's going on and engaged in that fight and that's I think what Donald Trump was saying as president saying look you're going to have to fight like hell to keep he wasn't saying take to the streets with weapons.
	He was saying get engaged in this process and you know you just listed out a lot of the challenges that were kind of the governmental issues like I have a problem with how the state is handling this election.
	You mentioned the Hunter Biden laptop as well and that alone, now that's the crossing of business and state where you get the state telling businesses this is Russian disinformation.
	There's obviously studies, I'm sure you've seen them too, that that would have changed the outcome of the election.
	Just that one thing alone, based on the polling that they've done, would have changed the outcome of the election period.
	None of the other cases needed to be brought.
	Now they're serious, and we need to get to the bottom of those things.
	But that is the scariest, I think, part for me, is that, like you said in your film, it's the state now kind of getting these private companies to do their bidding.
	Facebook, well, Meta now.
	X, thankfully, has been purchased by Elon Musk, and so it feels like a bit of a safe haven for free speech, even though it's not perfect, and I don't like that he put Linda Iaccarino in power there from NBC Universal days.
	But other places, like Google, still seem like the Wild West.
	They can kind of do whatever they want and manipulate elections.
	So I think in one of your interviews here with Zach, is it Voorhees?
	He's the Google whistleblower.
	He describes Google as a quasi-state actor.
	How do we break up that relationship, right?
	So we've covered the government.
	We've covered the three-letter agencies.
	Now we're getting into the business side of this.
	How do we deal with that section of it?
	And what did you find out, I guess, in doing so?
	If we had legislative power, which we don't have, because to do that you need both branches of both the House and the Senate, and you also need to have the presidency, you could very easily break up Google under the antitrust laws.
	I mean, Google is an obvious monopoly.
	You can argue whether Facebook's a monopoly, YouTube is not a monopoly, but Google is a monopoly.
	And, however, you can strike that down in one shot right now with the Supreme Court ruling.
	And there is, by the way, the case of Missouri v. Biden making its way up the courts.
	And the Attorneys General of Missouri and Louisiana, along with others, have exposed this censorship.
	And it's worth zooming in on it for a little bit.
	Because the censorship involves so many different institutions.
	This is typically how it works.
	You have some academic, and a lot of these academics have nothing better to do, so what they do is they monitor social media, people like you and me, and Stephen Crowder.
	And they go, okay, we're going to list the 50 greatest spreaders of disinformation in the country.
	OK, so let's just say, OK, Crowder is on the list.
	I'm on the list.
	And now what happens is the academic provides this list, which is then picked up by the Biden administration and sorted.
	So they'll say, well, Crowder is spreading disinformation about about Covid.
	So that goes to the CDC.
	Dinesh is spreading misinformation about the 2020 election.
	So that goes to the group called CISA, the Cyber Security Infrastructure Agency.
	So you've got like 40 agencies of the government collecting this stuff and all making lists.
	But they don't want to go to the digital platforms directly.
	Why?
	Because it's too obviously censorship.
	It's like flatly forbidden in the First Amendment.
	So they hire a middleman.
	They go to the Stanford Internet Observatory or another group called the Virality Project.
	And there are other groups like this.
	And they go, hey, guys, listen, we'll give you the list.
	you walk over to Google, you walk over to Meta, you deliver the list.
	So when they censor people, our grubby hands are not, our fingerprints are not on the list.
	And so the non-profit becomes ultimately the courier.
	And then the digital platform carries it out to the applause of the media.
	So, look at all the different institutions involved.
	Academia is involved.
	The media is involved.
	The digital platforms are involved.
	Multiple agencies of government.
	But, the good thing is that in the Missouri vs. Biden case, they are onto this.
	And they've got all this discovery showing exactly how this works.
	And it's making its way upward.
	Well, the Supreme Court just needs to come in and say, listen, not only is government censorship forbidden, but censorship by surrogate is equally forbidden.
	Of course.
	Right.
	And it's so clear cut.
	And see, this is how you fight a police state.
	You don't just fight a police state by saying, you know, what can the ordinary citizen do?
	The ordinary citizen can do some things like become a poll watcher, become an election observer.
	There are 10 things you can do.
	But we also need institutions to act The courts, the Republican House, you know, certainly Republican governors, attorneys general, secretaries of state.
	States can do a lot.
	States can do a lot.
	Right.
	And so what we saw in a lot of the last, you know, last few elections was maybe a move in that direction where we're getting more governorships and we're getting more control of state legislatures and saying, OK, hey, these changes can be made at the state level.
	And that's a very important thing.
	So maybe that's OK.
	So one of the things that you can do is to make sure that you are informed in state elections.
	Make sure that you're not just a every two year person where you're going to vote in the general and then you're going to vote to maybe do the midterms and see, you know, OK, I'm going to get ramped up about this every two years.
	That's the only amount of time that I can spend.
	And look, I know I'm asking a lot of you to go out and spend extra time that you don't necessarily have.
	I'm in the same boat other than I do this for a living.
	And so maybe it's a little easier for me to stay in tune with what's going on.
	But it's important.
	It's very important.
	And it's not One of my final questions for you in just a few minutes here is going to be related to this.
	It's not just about doing a show.
	It's not just about doing an interview.
	Dinesh, it's been fantastic.
	I'm learning a whole lot of stuff here, but it's about making an impact.
	When we did the interview with Dr. Robert Epstein about Google, are you familiar?
	I am.
	I just had him on my podcast.
	So you know some of the things that just make you go, are you kidding me?
	Google can flip a 50-50 into a 90-10 just by search manipulation.
	Like that's insane.
	It's about figuring out a way to take the information that you have and then go, okay, how do I fix this?
	How do I become part of the solution to this?
	How do I work proactively?
	And for parents with kids in school, get involved in school boards and PTAs.
	Make sure that you're electing good people that are going to have control over what's going on in those institutions.
	Fantastic.
	There we go.
	State governments can help kind of buttress the election system.
	If you don't like how the elections were handled, guess what?
	State lawmakers a lot of times were behind some of that stuff saying, okay, well, we'll go ahead and allow these mail-in ballots and we'll allow ballot harvesting and we'll allow all this stuff.
	So help make a change there.
	It's not always just the people that we send off to Congress.
	So that's something that you can do.
	And by the way, really quickly, Just comment below.
	Do you know anybody who uses anything other than Google to search?
	I don't know what their market share is off the top of my head, but I think it's somewhere in the 90s, percentage-wise.
	I mean, there are a couple of search engines, but they're not even... I mean, that's why we use Google as a verb.
	Google it!
	I know!
	It has become a thing, right?
	And I think DuckDuckGo is one of the competitors to that, but most people that you know... So, if really what we're talking about is You've got this police state who is, you know, and we're waiting on cases to be decided, but I think that's what led me into what I just said is that I get so frustrated because it's like, aha!
	We've got it!
	But then nothing happens.
	And we've had so many of those moments as conservatives where we're like, ugh.
	Okay well I thought we had it.
	Nothing happened.
	Nothing's changed.
	Nothing's fixed.
	What are we doing?
	How is it going to get fixed?
	I want people to have some small wins along the way to keep them going for the bigger wins that we're waiting for in Supreme Court cases and things like that.
	One of the things just jumped in my mind and it's a little out of sequence because it goes back to the very first question you asked me about the film reaching out to people on the other side.
	I think one of the things the film does well is it tells you the genealogy, the origin of the police state.
	And this is a little bit of an embarrassment because the origin of the police state is not only bipartisan but somewhat Republican.
	It is.
	It's the Patriot Act.
	Well, what happened is after 9-11, right, there was a wave of fear that goes through the country.
	And fear is always politically problematic because it makes you do things you wouldn't otherwise do.
	Correct.
	And a lot of people, me included, I'm sorry to say, were like, okay, we don't just chase down these crimes after they occur, we got to stop the next one.
	Everybody wanted that.
	Everyone wanted that.
	Nobody wanted to be the victim of the next crime and everybody thought it was coming right around the corner.
	So let's give all this enhanced surveillance power and let's break down some of the barriers between intelligence on the one hand and criminal investigation on the other.
	Let's empower these police agencies off the U.S.
	government, but obviously with the intention of going after the foreign terrorist.
	In fact, going after people like these Hamas guys.
	Right.
	So why do you think U.S.
	intelligence missed this completely, right?
	And I think the answer is... Focused on white guys in suburban America!
	There you go!
	What?!
	Yeah, so what happened was that even though the police state traces its roots to the Bush era, I think that the politicization, the turning of the camera inward, the aiming it at domestic political opponents, it began under Obama and was ramped up dramatically under Biden.
	Yeah.
	Well, I mean, it's still the J. Edgar Hoover building.
	You've still got the building named after a guy who was known for these kinds of tactics that we're talking about in a police state, like trying to convince Martin Luther King to kill himself.
	Like, it's just these really, really bad things.
	So that makes me think, like, man, was it always this way and it just had enough guardrails at the time to kind of keep it from going completely crazy?
	Or was it always crazy and we just never really knew about it because we didn't have access to social media and all the citizen journalism that we have today and all the people pushing back?
	Yeah, I think it has changed.
	And the reason I say this is, there's a big difference between a power-hungry megalomaniac like Hoover, who wanted to have kind of a personal, I've got something on everybody.
	But see, J. Edgar Hoover would never dream of interfering in the Nixon-Kennedy election of 1960.
	He wasn't trying to put his finger on the scale.
	He wasn't trying to tyrannically run the country from his back office in the FBI building.
	Frankly, he wanted to secure his own position in power, which is corrupt, but it's not the same as the ideological corruption that we're seeing now.
	Somebody made the same point about anti-Semitism.
	It was a former ambassador, David Friedman.
	He goes, listen, you can find anti-Semitism a lot of places.
	But he goes, if you want to find a full-scale ideology that justifies antisemitism, that commands support even in mainstream institutions, he goes, that's coming from the left.
	Yeah.
	Well, so I think we've covered most of the bases.
	I would highly recommend that you go and watch the film.
	Again, it's going to be in theaters on, gotta hear my notes, on October 23rd and 25th.
	Go to PoliceStateFilm.net.
	But before we go, kind of my final question, and Dinesh, this is more about On the right, sometimes we get people who dance on the line.
	And this is not an accusation I'm hurling against you, so be clear, that's not where I'm going.
	Of being kind of a quote unquote grifter, right?
	Somebody who is basically just like, how can I make money off of this movement?
	And you've written a lot of books.
	You and I were talking about what you're doing right now with these documentaries, and I love Really Well Done.
	It's not quite a documentary.
	It's more than that.
	I don't know if there's actually a name.
	It's a movie that kind of functions as a documentary as well.
	There's so much more that you've put into it than just going and asking somebody questions and throwing some B-roll footage behind you, right?
	I love those things.
	I love it when they're well done because they educate the audience, but how do you address people who say, okay, we're just going to buy another ticket to a movie, right?
	Is Dinesh really interested in this?
	Where's your heart behind this?
	Really tell us, what do you want to have happen?
	Why are you so focused on doing this?
	Not just with this movie, but with everything that you're doing.
	I think that, well, just a word about the documentaries.
	Some people call my films a docudrama, because I try to put in a non-fiction film all the ingredients that make a feature film great.
	So there's suspense, there's a plot.
	Storyline there is a movement toward a climax and you have a you want to leave the audience With a sense of enlightenment, but also galvanized to action.
	So those are some of the elements in putting a film together Now what motivates me?
	Documentary is a very hard genre and they're they're very very hard on the right.
	They're not so hard on the left here's what I mean if Michael Moore wants to make a film and What does he do?
	He goes to a studio, and he says, give me ten million dollars.
	And they go, here.
	He makes the film, and then, the moment he's finished, his job is done.
	The studio says, alright, you're gonna be on The View tomorrow, you're gonna be on Stephen Colbert, Bill Maher has you on, we got this, we got that, you know.
	So, what I'm getting at is, the only thing Michael Moore does, is the film.
	Nothing else.
	Everything else is done for him.
	The whole infrastructure's there.
	On the right, Lots of people are making documentaries and they find it's really hard.
	Why?
	Because you need some legal expertise.
	And you need to raise money.
	Really hard to do.
	And even if you're able to raise money, you then have to figure out how do I make a good film.
	Really hard to do also because a lot of people on our side think films are just about messaging.
	And they're like, Dinesh, do some messaging.
	Make a film on the border, on Obamacare.
	And I'm like, how do I get people to get out of their home and get in a car and go to a theater to watch a film that's all messaging?
	But once you make a good film, you then have to market it.
	So what happens is, and you have to be really good at all those things.
	Now, the business model I developed going back to my first film, was I go to some investors, conservative investors who by
	and large are not used to funding films, they're used to funding elections, and I said, guys, if you
	give me some money, I will work really hard in the market to get it back to you so you can
	turn around and give it back to me to make my next film.
	In other words, I said, I'm going to call this recycled philanthropy.
	I'd like to make some money for you, but that's not important to you or to me.
	Our goal is the cause, but I'm trying to create a self... you know, I don't like being the guy who's hitting up people for donations all the time, so I want to create a mechanism in which I can produce a product in the market, then work really hard to return the investment to my investors in the full understanding that our job is to now Do it again.
	So that's really what's driving me and my complete focus is on on saving the country because, I mean, you've got to remember I came here at the age of 17.
	My whole life has been shaped by America.
	I've, you know, written books like What's So Great About America.
	If you ask me today, is America a free country?
	I would, I would want, I believe no, but I wouldn't want to say that.
	I would be embarrassed to say it.
	So we are in this very Awkward position, and those of us who are rah-rah American immigrants have some obligation, I think, to give back to the country that has given us so much, and that's what motivates me.
	Yeah, no, that's good, and I can see that.
	A lot of people that we talked to that didn't grow up here for some period of time and then came to America are just like, oh my gosh, Like, this is worth fighting for.
	This is worth keeping.
	It's going the way, and I know you interviewed, I always forget her name, but she grew up in North Korea.
	Yeonmi Park.
	Yes, right, and so she spots it very clearly.
	The refugees from Cuba, they spot it very clearly, saying, hey, this country is going the way of some of these other regimes, and you guys need to be a little bit more aware of what's going on.
	I mean if I can say one thing about Yeon-mi is every time I see her this is the thought that goes through my head that there's for a country in a situation like we are now there is a window of time.
	Yeon-mi actually has a book called While Time Remains which is to me a haunting title.
	It is yeah.
	Because what she's saying is the time is not unlimited because if the jaws of the police state snap shut Then, the only thing we can do is run, right?
	I mean, get out, get your family out, get your money out.
	Your options become much more limited.
	So, if you ask me in one sentence why I made this movie, it's so we never get to that point.
	Because we have the time to block, to thwart, even to roll back the police state.
	It's not going to be easy, but we can do it.
	And we have the obligation to do what we can while time remains.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Well, look, I think it's very important.
	Go see Police State Film October 23rd and 25th in theaters.
	PoliceStateFilm.net to get your tickets.
	That's the only place to do it.
	If you can't get out into the theater, make sure you go to the virtual premiere on October 27th.
	It's going to be from Las Vegas with some Q&A from you and our friend Dan Bongino.
	Dinesh, thank you very much for all the work that you're doing on this.
	I really appreciate it and for answering some of the questions.
	I want to make sure if anybody out there is asking the question, why is Dinesh doing this?
	Is it just another, is it a messaging film or something like that?
	There really is a goal.
	uh... right now that we're trying to save the country that's that's what we talk
	about we're trying to save what we believe is the greatest country on earth
	that is fallen on hard times that is definitely culturally not in the right place and uh...
	administratively right now is also not in the right place so whoever
	whoever that person is for you uh... that you are looking at to come in and save the day
	it's bigger than one person It's not just President Trump.
	Like we have to win a lot of elections and we have to do a lot of hard work.
	And unfortunately that's what it takes to keep this country that we all love
	and to remake it in the image that our founders saw it being made into.
	Right.
	And so we've, we've got a lot of work to do, but that's okay.
	We have time right now.
	And as a Christian, you know, the Bible has some of that similar
	language, like go out while the time is available, like while it's
	still day and work can be done.
	Well, we're in that same place as America while it is still light.
	and this work is possible to be done, we have to go out.
	We have to do that work.
	Make sure you guys tune in back again with us tomorrow.
	We'll be here 10 a.m.
	Eastern, but make sure you go and support this work.
	Go and support Dinesh in the theaters, and hopefully, Dinesh, you won't have to make many more of these.
	Hopefully, there'll be a lot of work that is done, and the problem will get solved, and we won't have to keep doing this, but as many as are necessary, we would always love to have you back.
	We'd love to talk about this and some of the success that hopefully you will have from this, but thank you for being with us today.

▲