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July 7, 2023 - Louder with Crowder
19:34
GUN WEEK w/ Mrgunsngear | Ep 5. CROWDER GOES BALLISTIC
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It's Gun Week!
Now, the Founding Fathers understood that only an armed people could truly be a free people.
So this week, I invite you to join me and Mug Club resident gun aficionado, Mr. Guns and Beer, as we tackle the subject of firearms from every angle possible.
In today's episode, we have a little fun, okay, a lot of fun with ballistics.
And see just how effective each round truly is.
All right, so we've done five other installments.
This one's really more for us.
This is fun.
Yeah, we got some ballistics gelatin.
You can hit one of those videos where we dispel some of the common myths, but this does kind of help do that because a lot of people don't really know what calibers do to soft tissue, to bone.
So this is the proper gelatin that would be used in the FBI ballistics.
Clear ballistics gel, which is a synthetic material.
The FBI uses organic, but organic's way harder to film with, so this simulates it very closely.
It's okay.
I stand corrected.
It's very close, but none of us have plotted a kidnap a sitting governor.
So, I think the synthetic works for the FBI.
And the standards for this, just so you know as far as defensive use with a caliber, is you're looking for a specific penetration without over-penetration, that number is?
So the FBI standard, which is kind of the industry standard, 12 to 18 inches.
Basically you want to get enough penetration, but not too much penetration.
Whatever.
12 to 18 inches.
We're children.
It's ballistics gel.
It's been a long day and we're very, very hot.
And of course, none of us trust it.
So, Mike, Mr. Guns N' Gears, go check out his channel, is going to be shooting into this block, or two blocks of ballistics gel.
We are going to, what, we're going to go .22?
.22, .380 actually.
.380, a very common carry, defensive caliber in small firearms, and a 9mm.
And we'll move on to some rifle rounds and shotgun.
And we may actually have, maybe the magnum round if we get one of those.
We'll see if it's laying around.
That'll be fun.
So alright, let's just watch Mike shoot and see what happens in slow-mo in the gel.
And you know what, maybe we could add some sleep-scape sounds.
Let's do one of those soothing sleep casts.
With ballistics.
I think that works.
Alright, starting off with a 22 there.
Yep, starting off with a 22.
And we have a hollow point round.
Holly, wait, hold on a second.
Don't move.
It's a sign from God.
A butterfly landed on his ears right now.
That means that even God loves him.
Well, that's good.
Just try not to blow it away.
So we have some 22 hull points out of a pistol, so it's going to perform differently than it would out of a rifle.
But let's see.
So that actually penetrated more than I thought it would.
It's right here into the second block.
So these are 16 inch blocks and it basically went 16 inches on the dot.
I actually didn't expect that from a 22.
That's kind of perfect if you were going to ask for a 22 to be a defensive round, right?
There's just not much, like it doesn't do much in there.
No, it doesn't.
It's ice picking through.
Yeah, yeah.
All of your pistol calibers are gonna do that.
Okay.
So until you get into rifles, you're essentially just ice picking.
Okay, nice.
Shows you what I know.
That's interesting.
Huh.
Now we need to know what round that is, because that's... I shoot a lot of .22's, so that's not normal.
Was that a mini mag?
Maybe, I don't know.
I'll have to check it out.
I think it was.
Oh, was it?
Okay, well that makes sense.
They're not a sponsor, but they make good stuff.
They do.
All right.
Perfect.
I want to see this thing.
No, don't ruin it!
Are we going to shoot it again?
Well, yeah!
No, we have other gels.
We do have other ones, but this one's still good.
There's so little damage, right?
I think so.
All right, let's do it again.
Okay, fine.
Let's see what you make.
It feels nice too, doesn't it?
We've been out here all day.
We're delirious, alright.
Next up is... Careful, that's slippery.
Here, let me grab the Walther PPK.
You want to do the Rifle 22 as well?
It's just a good comparison.
Good comparison, let's do that.
Rifle 22.
Here you go.
Is it the same round?
I don't think it's the same round.
Wait, is it?
Hold on, let me see what's in here.
No.
You want me to make it the same round?
Yeah, might as well.
It's a rotary mag.
Are those mags full?
That's interesting.
There we go.
There you go.
Alright.
Cool.
Can you see the beads of sweat?
I mean, it's no butterfly, but... Alright, up next we're going to be shooting the exact same bullet, but out of a rifle-length barrel, so it should behave differently.
We'll find out.
All right, it stopped here.
Yep.
That's a little shorter than the other one.
I wonder why.
Yep, so the reason it did that is the velocity is very different.
So, when you speed it up, bullets come apart, fragment, mushroom, whatever the case may be, depending on bullet design.
So that's why that one penetrated less because it spread out more.
So, more surface moving through.
Well, you can even see that it compressed.
It almost looks like an old musket round.
It's like a perfect... Oh, yeah, I see that.
And if you look here, in the entrance wound, that one actually either expanded or tumbled.
One of the two.
The high-speed footage should tell us, but just looking at that track, it did one of the two.
And sometimes I think it's important for people to note, like, there is a point, depending on, right, the grains, like, there's a point of diminishing returns where if you fire it too fast, especially some of the, like, sort of semi-fragmenting rounds where they don't penetrate nearly as deeply.
Correct, because it's all about bullet design, so...
357 Magnum is a good example.
Most, almost all 357 Magnum, like defensive loads, are designed to perform out of a 3 to 5 inch barrel.
So when you put them in like a lever action, a lot of times they'll under-penetrate because they'll expand too much.
They're coming out so quickly.
How about we do this?
You want to do a flip?
Let's turn it around.
You guys turn it around so I don't mess it.
And I'll grab the 380 before we go on a 9mm.
Stop it.
You're a married man, Gerald.
This is the Walther PPK.
So, this is .380.
And it's actually a pretty good gun to use.
I think it's a longer barrel than a lot of the micro pocket carries, so you'll kind of get the right ballistics out of it, I guess, maximizing it.
Yeah, if you toss it and single it, I mean, you'll hit it anyway, but the double action... Right now we have full metal jackets, so... Yes.
In 380, there is somewhat of a debate between hollow points and full metal jacket in terms of how they perform.
We'll leave that to the comments section.
It's one of those, look, I'll say this because he's being very diplomatic, it is one of those rounds, the 380.
Keep in mind, we're talking about the same diameter, right, as a 9mm.
Far less, you're talking about power, like power that you can fit into it, right?
Think of it as shortened.
If it's a hollow point, there's a lot of data to suggest, and there are some exceptions, but as a general rule, unless you have the right gun, the right round, it can under-penetrate if it expands.
So there are a lot of people who say just use ball ammo.
The risk of it over-penetrating is, again, still pretty low because it's not that powerful of a round.
So a lot of people will tell you to use standard ball ammo.
It's one of the exceptions to the rule.
It is.
It's a debate.
It's a debate!
debate.
It did over-penetrate and it did tumble.
So when you see that type of wound pattern with a full metal jacket, that's 100% what it did.
Yeah.
So it went in, tumbled, and then it looks like it made a full rotation in that one.
Oh wow!
I didn't know that it got all that way in there.
Yep.
So for this one, we'll get out a tape measure here.
Oh there's actually a piece, by the way this is the old one.
Yeah, so talking about 16 inch blocks, probably went about 28 to 29 inches.
Jeez.
So how much of that, you know we see that obviously in the gelatin, how much of a reflection is that actually as far as would that have a larger wound cavity in the body?
Probably not, is the answer to that.
So when you're talking about pistol ballistics, they don't really tear flesh, like rifle rounds do.
Reason for that is just velocity.
If you think of your body, your body's made of water, almost all.
And so when you get those rounds going fast, generally speaking, over 2,000 feet per second,
that's when flesh starts to...
That's when car alarms go off.
I know, right?
Yeah, exactly.
That's when flesh starts tearing because it just can't get out of the way fast enough.
Gotcha.
So that's why rifle wounds are just so much more devastating than pistol wounds.
But, I mean, there would be some tissue damage like that, but it wouldn't be like what we're going to see with the rifles.
Now, what about, we talk about, because we're talking about like the hydrostatic shock.
Correct.
The wound cavity where, think about it, it goes, and we'll see it in slow motion, it goes, basically like this, it goes, these are technical terms you need not concern yourself with.
It's from Dune.
I don't know.
What happens today where three guys like us who've been out in 100 plus degree heat and we're severely dehydrated?
Yeah.
Would that be a form of natural?
No.
Natural defense?
Probably worse damage?
Yes.
Okay.
Okay, we have the Walther PDP.
And what I did was I, just so you guys can see, I put in what would be like ball, like a target round here.
Underneath it, we have a hollow point.
So we can fire two in.
That way you can see side by side the difference in sort of a, you know, the wound cavity.
And I should just note, before we fire, the hollow point that we're using is a Winchester 115 grain white box, it's called.
So it's not the highest performing round, if you will.
So there's newer stuff that's better, but it should replicate it.
Sorry, Winchester, but maybe you should just stop making such poor-performing bullets.
It's cheap, though.
It's like the cheapest hollow points you can get.
So, there you go.
High Point and the Winchester 115.
So, that...
That hollow point went in there only 11 inches.
So that's actually, if you look into the history of 9mm, that's one of the rounds that was used in the Miami shootout in the 80s.
And that's what caused the FBI to actually switch away from 9mm was underpenetration, which is exactly what you see right here.
So only going in 11 inches.
In that instance, it failed to hit a guy's heart, the criminal, and he was able to keep fighting.
So that's why they switched it, because of that underperformance.
But here, obviously you can see, Over-penetration as well.
So on that one with the full metal jacket, yep, we're looking at 29 inches of penetration on that round.
So probably more than what you typically want.
And to be clear too, sometimes people will get the... This doesn't mean that it will exactly penetrate, let's say, 12 or 14.
It's meant to be a relevant metric to give you an idea as to what you're looking for with that penetration to guarantee that it'll, you know, crush bone if it needs to, make it through clothing, right?
That's something people don't take into account.
Correct, and it's also a consistent medium.
That's why a lot of people use it, because you can compare round to round to round and have a consistent outcome.
It's like a barbell.
A barbell where you have the exact, like sure, you can get stronger using a kettlebell, but it's hard to measure, whereas you know the exact poundage.
It's kind of a good way to measure progress.
So, neither one of those would be ideal.
No.
Well, Miami.
Ideal is here?
Ideal is 12 to 18 inches.
That's what people are using it for.
So it's 11.
Yep, just a little bit short with that one.
Now, if you put clothing in front of it, That could delay the opening of the hollow point, so it could make it penetrate more.
It just depends.
There's a lot of variables.
Gosh, there's so much to know.
Time lapse, burnt neck, that doesn't happen in 30 seconds, but now we are going to go on to the rifle.
And then I'm looking forward to the shotgun, buckshot, birdshot.
This is .223.
Yep, this is .55 grain, so it's going to be similar to M193, which is a military loading for like 20 years in the military, 30 years.
So .556, .223 is a very velocity-dependent round, so at this close-up with a 60-inch barrel, it should still We do pretty well, even though it's not fancy stuff.
And with something like this, it's not nearly as relevant as with a pistol, whether it's a hollow point.
It still is, but not to the same degree.
Correct.
At this distance, with a 16-inch barrel, not that big a difference.
There's some.
There's some commenters.
Like, just to be clear, we're just saying not as much.
Right.
And there are people who know what they're talking about that use 55 grain full metal jacket for defense.
Well, you know, we'll leave that for the comments.
That's true.
Alright, let's see.
Wow!
So what you see here probably is more evident in the slow-mo that you guys probably saw than what you see here with the actual wound track itself but as you can see it went in about probably four inches and then started fragmenting so what's happening there is the bullets going so fast and it hits that soft tissue the bullet itself is breaking apart so It started to come apart right around three to four inches.
I think, slow-mo would tell us, but I think it actually exited out the bottom of the block.
So, what you see there with rifle rounds often, particularly a full metal jacket, is that they will tumble, twist, turn in the gel, and the same thing would happen in, you know, a deer or your body.
Now, just to be clear though, we'll do that in the myths video.
It doesn't mean that it bounces around like a ping-pong ball.
No, no, no, absolutely not.
It just sort of redirects a little bit.
Correct.
Because the drag on the bullet as it goes through changes.
Yep, that's the exit hole right there.
Gerald has found it.
Let's shoot one more to see if it goes all the way through.
You think it just then ricocheted off of that fragment?
Oh wow, that's crazy.
All right, so we had a very similar thing happen.
So it turned consistent performance, if nothing else.
This one actually went a little bit further down in the block.
This one's probably exited around 13 inches.
But same type of fragmentation.
In ballistics terms, we call it the neck right there on the front.
And what Clear Ballistics doesn't show all that well is what the real temporary stretch cavity would be if you were actually shooting like ordinance grade gel or tissue.
So you have your permanent cavity, which is what you see that's damaged, and then your stretch cavity, which this doesn't do a good job of replicating.
But I think the slow-mo probably shows that a little bit better than what we see here with our naked eye.
But yeah, this is the one I was talking about.
Correct.
This one exits the block at 14 inches.
So still going, still going strong.
All right, now let's grab the shotgun, because that's one of the myths that we'll be dispelling, and you can click on the link below, where some people say, all you need is birdshot.
You don't want over-penetration, you just want birdshot.
Isn't that right?
If you don't want to win the gunfight.
Yes, so we'll do a round of 12-gauge, we'll do birdshot and then buckshot into another block of gel, so you can see the penetration and why it's a silly thing that only silly people say.
Birdshot and buckshot, same block.
Alright, let's do it.
Alright.
Am I the only one who thinks that when you shoot that gun smells like farts?
It does a little bit.
It does smell like farts.
Alright, so as you guys can see here, the birdshot, the farthest pellet I can see, is 8 inches of penetration.
That's a nuisance.
And many of them stop at the 3 inch mark.
Are you just trying to piss people off with that thing?
Uh, well, yeah.
The clothing on that?
It's like pepper spray, but spicier.
And add PCP to the mix.
Yeah, exactly.
Is this what Dick Cheney shot some guy with?
It is, yes.
The one we know of.
Cheney was quail hunting with Harry Whittington when he accidentally fired a shotgun, not realizing it was pointed at Whittington.
The one we've heard in the news.
And you can see all the buckshot.
Did any of the buckshot stop here?
It did, yep.
One stopped there, the rest went in here.
And those are double-hot buckshots, so...
For standard buckshot, that's the heaviest load that people are going to use.
So they make number one buckshot, number four buckshot.
Those are smaller projectiles.
There's more of them in the shotgun shell itself, and they will penetrate a little bit less.
So for buckshot, this is the heaviest penetrating Round that's typically used.
So you can see here that we had a couple of them stop between the 15 and 19 inch mark and it looks like we had two go out past that all the way out to 26 inches on that one.
So a little bit more penetration that would be ideal Me personally, if I were getting into a gunfight, I would rather have more penetration than less if I had to err on the side of one or the other.
And when you're talking about the actual right sort of leg count, the muzzle energy, is that about the equivalent to, is it 8 rounds of 9mm?
Close.
It's very similar, yeah.
It's very similar.
People rarely take buckshot to the chest and continue doing whatever they were doing.
It's true, but that's not true with pistols.
That's what they were doing was taking buckshot to the chest.
Well, then they can still take buckshot to the chest.
Yes, they can continue to do that.
But yeah, I mean, you'll see a lot of security camera footage all the time of people take high center chest hits with pistols, and they keep moving.
You just don't see it with buckshot.
Well, we had someone just... I'm not saying it's impossible.
Yes, and this is one of those things, a lot of people will tell you this, and we had someone who was an operator, former Special Forces, say, just trust me, I know what I'm talking about, birdshot.
And Ginger Snap said, wait a second, I had a friend who was shot with birdshot, and he can still mostly see out of that eye.
Like, I'm not saying it's fun.
I know some of the comments, you go ahead and stand in front of it and get shot with a birdshot.
I don't want to be shot with a BB gun.
But when you're talking about home defense, I mean, it looks like a poppy seed muffin.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, it's a liability.
Not saying it wouldn't work, but if you're shooting someone, there's a reason you're shooting them, right?
So you want them to stop.
So selecting the right round to do that is important.
There we go.
Ballistics Gelatin.
And click on the other links for more of the debunking.
Oh, shout out, by the way, thank you to the gun range here.
Yeah, Texas Defensive Shooting Academy.
Yep, they let us come out.
A lot of people come out here.
We didn't get to use a lot of the cool stuff.
I mean, it kind of looks like Mad Max with all the tires, but great place, took care of us, and the heat stroke is not their fault.
No.
They actually have cover here.
I don't know.
We probably want to get some... eat a banana.
Odds are good.
But while we're here, notice the pattern of the entrance.
It didn't just spread out.
You actually had to aim it to hit where we were shooting at.
Yes, that's true.
The spread.
Oh wait, it didn't do this?
No.
It wasn't like a stop sign moving through the air?
No, it was not.
Yeah, and this would be obviously more so the bird shot, which would be even more spread out.
Correct.
And what, about five yards?
Seven yards.
Five, seven yards.
So, yeah, you still do need to aim with a shotgun.
Not as precisely, but if you think it's going to be the size of that, you know, that communist target logo right there, no.
You're looking at about seven yards, maybe the circumference of the opening of a pint glass-ish.
Rule of thumb with shotguns, if you're using traditional buckshot, Shotguns do have chokes that you can change this with.
Some do.
But rule of thumb is one inch per yard in terms of spread.
Yeah.
I think that was just people seeing.
It's like a show-and-tell.
It's like Magic School Bus, but, you know, violent.
So subscribe, comment, click one of the other videos.
There's five.
We gotta go.
If you like this video, click like, consider subscribing, or comment below.
And of course, consider tuning in to the live show, Monday through Friday, 10 a.m.
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