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May 11, 2022 - Louder with Crowder
01:11:47
Do people really know what Roe v. Wade is? | Talking With People
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Time Text
What's the difference between the now child breastfeeding versus the child who is relying on the nutrients inside the body, is what you're saying?
That's my question.
Yeah.
Well, it's... The person that had the child inside their body is... Where am I going?
So after news broke from the leak that the Supreme Court will allegedly overturn Roe v. Wade, of course the media jumped on it and this happened.
If the court overturns Roe v. Wade, it will be a direct assault.
69% of Americans say they do not want the court to overturn Roe v. Wade.
If this is issued, over 20 states, there's a trigger where abortion will automatically be banned.
I am just, I cannot tell you the outrage I feel at this decision.
The Republicans have been working toward this day for decades.
Women will die.
Abortion, safe and legal!
What are the next things that are going to be attacked?
I'm killing them!
I'm killing the babies!
Okay, that seems bad.
That could be because most Americans don't actually know what the overturning of Roe v. Wade really means.
So contrary to gotcha journalism with man in the street, we decided to just go and talk with people and find out.
Actually, if you guys do have a couple minutes, we're just asking, have any of you been following the Roe v. Wade
overturning?
What is it?
The federal, you know, Supreme Court, the abortion law.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I heard about that already.
Yeah, do you mind if I ask you?
We're just kind of getting a feel for everybody, where they line up on this.
What do you think about it?
Of course.
So, Roe v. Wade, yeah, the Supreme Court, there was a leak.
We're assuming it's true.
It seems like it's true.
They're going to be overturning Roe v. Wade.
Which is, like, they're going to be letting people abort their child?
I think it's up to a female, bro.
I think it should be a female decision.
It's her body.
A lot of people didn't really understand this.
A lot of people think that overturning Roe v. Wade means there'll be a federal ban on abortion.
It just means that it'll go back to the states, where states can make their own laws
if they want to have restrictions, and if states don't want to have restrictions,
they don't have to have restrictions.
I think it should be a female decision.
It's her body.
So if the man was carrying the baby, I feel like it would be up to the man,
You know, God has us.
If the woman gets to carry the baby, then it's up to her.
What about the law though, like the Supreme Court putting it back to the states?
Yeah, you can't put laws on people's bodies and people's...
Shut me off, you hippies!
Ha! F*** off!
I assume you know that guy.
Nah.
No?
Nah, man.
Nah, but it gave me time to think.
I think it should be up to the branch.
We should be doing something.
So you don't think that states should be allowed to have restrictions on it?
No, I don't think the federal or the state should have it.
I think it should be up to the branch.
It's a parental thing.
Depending on the age.
It's another way of controlling the population.
Controlling what we do, basically, you know?
No, not at all, because it depends on what they're doing, because it seems like back in the days, Planned Parenthood was all in black people's neighborhoods.
Exactly, yeah.
was all in like black people's neighborhoods.
Yeah, well do you know Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, was, they set up shop, these
abortion clinics in black neighborhoods because she wanted to abort more black babies.
Yeah, so they can have them raised going out.
Right.
So, you know.
But that's a bad thing if you say that.
So does that maybe make you think about abortion twice?
At the end of the day, I feel like this, right?
We in America, right?
At the end of the day, right?
It's supposed to be like freedom, you see what I'm saying?
So, at the end of the day, you know what I'm saying?
We don't have the freedom to do what we want to do.
It's not really like, you know?
I mean, I understand, but can you...
So, the other side of the argument that people have is, and I'm curious here because he said woman, so he's basically, this is him saying he wants to punt, he wants to go to you.
You know, he's like, have her answer me, I don't want to piss you off.
Yeah.
But, you understand the other side of the argument is if someone, you know, a scientist and a biologist say, well it's not really that person's body if it's a baby in their body.
That's why, for example, like Texas, their limitation is a heartbeat.
Once there's a separate heartbeat, they're saying you can't have an abortion.
Yeah, okay.
Does that make sense?
That makes a lot of sense because, listen, the heartbeat, I can say that's not murder.
Right.
So you think Texas should be allowed to place a limitation, like at a heartbeat maybe?
At a heartbeat seems like it beats everybody halfway.
There should be a specification once it gets to a certain standard, a certain stage.
It should be able to and it should be able not to.
So definitely, once it has a heartbeat, I don't think.
Yeah.
We got four.
Yeah.
Oh, congratulations.
This is your, you two are together?
Yeah.
So you have three kids?
You said?
You got four kids.
So you did the ultrasound.
Yeah.
And I just had my first twins.
So you remember that first ultrasound?
Yeah.
Congratulations.
Tough.
Yeah.
By the way, anyone who tells you that boys and girls aren't different, bullsh**.
Go and have one boy and one girl twin.
You know, she starts talking really young and she's, you know, verbal and he's just
ahhh.
But then he's just jumping and running around.
Oh, yeah, more action.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's not even close.
Oh, yeah.
The bullsh** that, you know, all the rich whites...
All the rich, white, liberal b****es are trying to be like, ah, it's all society.
I'm like, no, no, no.
I have not taught any of these twins.
That is a boy.
That is a girl.
She grabs something, she tries to put it in her mouth.
He grabs something and tries to hit you with it.
That's right what he does.
Yeah, exactly.
So you remember that first ultrasound where you saw the heartbeat?
Yeah, of course.
So you would say at that point that's a lie?
Oh yeah, at that point it's a lie.
That's a lie.
So that's kind of why I was having this conversation, because the Supreme Court, before this ruling now of overturning Roe v. Wade, Texas wouldn't have had the right to say, okay, after a heartbeat you can't have an abortion.
So now the overturning of Roe v. Wade means Texas can't have that law.
So that seems like something that... Texas is always like that.
Well, they couldn't though.
It was technically illegal for Texas to do that.
See, I think that's a good place to find common ground.
In other words, you have people who are abortion all the way up to 9 months, and being a mother I would assume that's ridiculous.
Then you have some people who think no abortions, but a heartbeat.
Good place to start?
I think that's a lot of people in the country, you know, but unfortunately you see the protests, you see the media making it seem like something it isn't, and people go nuts.
It seems like a lot of people are kind of like you on a sliding scale.
People just don't know what they want.
That's what it is.
People don't know what they want.
Yeah.
Because a heartbeat is, you know, you can start hearing it now at six weeks, but certainly ten weeks.
Yeah.
Because, yeah, I remember seeing that, that little heartbeat, like, oh my gosh.
I don't know about you, as a dad, but for me I was just paranoid, or I'm like, alright, just make sure she doesn't take any stares and falls down, and I'm like, because we can't do anything, the babies aren't in us, we're just like, just don't do anything that could hurt the baby.
Keep her in a bubble.
Yeah, exactly, put her in like a bubble wipe.
Alright, well thank you guys, I appreciate you.
Thanks for tuning in to Candy on That, too.
What was your name, by the way?
Sarah.
Nice to meet you, Sarah.
What's your name?
Sierra.
Sierra and Sarah.
Alright, I'll try and get it straight.
Look, we're just asking people today, have you been following the leak of the alleged overturning of Roe v. Wade?
I'm not really following it completely.
Okay.
And you nodded your head yes.
I mean, I followed it for, well not, the leak is horrible, but I followed like, you know, the abortion controversy for a while.
I've had my stance on like, you know, I think it's, we should have safe abortions.
Okay.
So what do you, what do you think about the Roe v. Wade, you know, about it being overturned?
You know, it likely happens.
I think, I think it's a war on women, to be honest.
I mean, I, and I think it affects everybody.
Okay.
Not just women.
How so?
You know, if a man's out cheating, he doesn't want his mistress getting pregnant, she gets pregnant, what can you do?
That's kind of letting a piece of s*** guy off the hook though, isn't it?
I mean, yeah, but it sucks.
Yeah, he shouldn't be cheating.
What is it that you said were on women?
What is it that you think will happen to women specifically if Roe v. Wade is overturned?
Let's act as though it's going to be overturned.
I know it's a leak, but...
Yeah, I just think it just takes away that choice and it just sucks.
But let me ask you, why do you think it takes away that choice?
Like, what do you think happens when Roe v. Wade gets overturned?
I think this is something that a lot of people maybe are a little confused about.
Well, it gives the states the choice to choose what they want to do.
But I think, I mean, I may be wrong, but I think some states have already banned Plan B, something like that.
There was a rumor about, I think it was Tennessee or Mississippi.
That's not true.
It just means you have to get it from a doctor, not just pick it up at a CVS.
I mean, I guess that makes sense, but yeah.
I mean, it just sucks.
I don't really have much more than that.
But do you think that the states should have the right to be able to terminate abortion laws?
Because you'll still, it won't change the laws in like... Yeah, that's all Roe v. Wade overturning means that Colorado, you know, can have abortion, like they have all the way up until nine months.
And Texas can have a heartbeat bill.
Yeah.
I mean...
We don't know yet.
I guess we'll see what happens.
Well that is what's going to happen, right?
It's not like there won't be a federal ban on abortion.
So it's just, it'll happen on a state level, where states can place restrictions, which they weren't allowed to
before.
And now it allows the states to place restrictions.
And that's based on people voting for that in each state, right?
Yeah, they're representative.
Yeah, I mean the overturning of Roe v. Wade is a Supreme Court justice, obviously, so
that's not a voting issue.
You don't really vote them, they have lifetime appointments.
But it's after that.
Yeah, if the people of Texas want to have a limitation, or of Oklahoma, they can do
it.
And if the people of Colorado or Virginia or California don't want to, they don't have
to.
Rather than like federally?
Yeah, federally what happened with Roe v. Wade was basically, particularly in the first
trimester, states were not allowed to place restrictions.
Good for you.
And so recently, you know, there was a bill, there was a case that went up and challenged it.
And they said, well, we should have the right to, in this state, place restrictions in our state.
And they said, yeah, Roe v. Wade is kind of bad law because, you know, there's no constitutional right to an abortion.
So it should be determined by the state.
I mean, I guess, I mean, everybody has a different opinion, so, you know, that's all.
But we're gonna go get some food.
Sure, yeah, absolutely.
Sarah?
Sarah.
Alright, so Darian, we're just talking with people now.
You know there were these big protests here a few days ago, so we didn't really want to get into that.
You don't want to end up having very productive conversations.
Have you heard about the leak, Roe v. Wade being overturned?
Stephen just told me about it, actually.
You know, I haven't been keeping up, but he was telling me about how some people are taking it as if they're just abolishing abortion.
Right, that's what a lot of the protests were, yeah.
But from what he was saying, that that's not the case.
So I'd like to get to know a little bit more information about that.
It depends on how far along the pregnancy is.
That relates exactly to Roe v. Wade.
So Roe v. Wade basically was a case where they specifically barred states from setting any kind of limitations on abortion.
Uh huh.
in the first trimester.
And so some laws, like the Texas Heartbeat Law, or there was a case in Mississippi
that went up to the Supreme Court, where the Supreme Court just ruled that,
you know what, states can determine their own abortion laws.
So with Roe v. Wade being overturned, it does mean that some states can
outright ban abortion if they want, or they can place limitations like the Heartbeat,
which is well within the first trimester, and then a place like Colorado, or Virginia, or New Jersey,
they can have their late-term abortion laws, which they have, they allow abortions
well into the third trimester.
It just makes it a scenario where it goes back to the states,
they can determine their own laws regarding abortion limitations.
So that's the fallout from it.
What do you think about that?
Bye.
I think states should have their own, depending on where you are.
But I don't see a problem with everyone being under one ideology as well.
Like you said, depending on how far along the child is, I would say it's almost murder if the child is alive and it's not just a fetus.
But early on in the pregnancy, I'm definitely pro-choice in regards to that.
I'd say after first trimester.
Yeah, I'd say after first trimester.
Okay, when would you determine kind of what...
I'd say after the first trimester.
After the first trimester?
Yeah, I'd say after the first trimester.
So after 12 weeks?
Correct.
Okay.
What about, you know, the fact, for example, that like there is a heartbeat before that?
That there's a separate heartbeat?
So that's the basis for some of these laws, that there's a separate heartbeat that you can't abort.
Or the thing that, for example, the toes are developed, or certain organs.
I wonder what changes, for example, from week 11 to week 12.
And this is a conversation that everyone has.
You know, when the baby... I would say this, because like you said, I don't know exactly when the heartbeat starts, but I would say if it's alive, I would say adoption would be a better choice as opposed to taking a life.
Well, you get the heartbeat like at six weeks, and then you get a more developed heart.
It's like they say it's a tube, but the heart develops.
Well, are you a dad at all?
Do you have any kids?
Oh yeah, I have three.
Okay, so did you ever do the ultrasound where you see the heartbeat?
Oh yeah, yeah.
So that's well before the end of the first trimester.
Yeah, you're right about that.
Yes, you're right about that, yeah.
And did you feel like that was alive when you saw that heartbeat?
Yeah, exactly.
I did.
Yeah, for me it was crazy.
I was like, oh my gosh, I better not...
I don't know about you, but I had twins.
I was just paranoid, bro.
I was like, alright, I just gotta make sure you don't fall down the stairs.
Right, exactly.
Because there's nothing much you can do.
Exactly.
It's a life you need to protect.
Yeah, exactly.
So I'm all for that.
So that's why I say first trimester, only because of my lacking of knowledge of when the heartbeat actually starts.
Okay.
So then you would, in other words, before Roe v. Wade being overturned, a heartbeat bill would not be allowed, because that's in the first trimester.
But now with Roe v. Wade overturned, states can set a heartbeat bill.
So you would say, okay, they should have the right to do that.
A state.
I would say no.
Not after the Harvey.
No, no.
That's what I'm saying.
A state can set that limitation.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I would say, yeah.
Whereas right now they can't set that limitation.
Oh, yeah.
I would agree with that.
Okay.
So then, yeah.
So it's pretty reasonable.
Then it seems like, you know, you're kind of like most Americans.
Where most Americans consider themselves pro-choice until a certain point.
Right.
It gets a little bit difficult when you ask Americans to define where that point is.
Kind of like we just experienced now.
But I do think that it's being a little misrepresented if you've seen the protests.
I'm sure you probably might have been under the impression at one point that overturning
Roe v. Wade was a ban on abortion.
Yeah, that's not the case.
It just goes back to the states.
Do you think that at the very least that's a reasonable decision for the courts of medicine?
I think that is a reasonable decision, yeah.
Okay, that's about it.
Yeah, and I think you agree with most Americans.
And I think if you take the time to do, like you said, a little more research on it, don't take my word for it.
I promise you I'm not lying, but I encourage you to assume that I am lying.
You know, make sure you talk with other people about it, because the more people know what Roe v. Wade is...
and then it goes to the states, then we'll have less division in this country as opposed to
yelling about banning abortion and it not being, you know, my body, my choice all the way up until
nine months. I mean, let me ask you this, because the most radical abortion bills that they would
consider on those on the left would be things like the heartbeat pill that exists right now
or like the Mississippi law. But in states like Colorado or places like Virginia,
they can abort all the way up to nine months. What do you think is, let's say we take the extreme,
Abortion all the way up until nine months or a complete ban.
What would you be more comfortable with?
Because one is already happening.
Abortion up until nine months.
It's happening right now.
The ban doesn't exist.
I'm pro-life, so I would say a complete ban all the way up to nine months.
If I have to choose an extreme, I would choose the ban.
I think that's not a poll that's out there.
I think probably a lot of Americans would feel that way.
We're not there, that's not what we have to decide.
But the truth is a lot of people don't know that right now this happens in many states.
I mean there are some states, I don't know if you're aware of It was Elizabeth Warren, Klobuchar, a few Democrats voted against the Infants Born Alive Act.
And what was happening in places like, I believe, Illinois, Virginia, I don't know the exact states, babies that survived abortions were being left to die.
And the bill just demanded that babies that survived abortions just be given, be legally required the same medical attention that all babies are given.
As opposed to, just because you don't want them, but they already survived the abortion, they've come out of the birth canal.
And there were a lot of Democrats who voted against that.
Really?
Because they thought that was infringing on abortion rights.
That's not right, man.
That's not right.
They do deserve the same treatment.
Now, are there any birth defects that go along with surviving an abortion?
Not necessarily, no.
It's just if a baby survived an abortion, that they attempted to abort and the baby survived it.
Yeah, that's not right.
where they weren't being given medical care.
Right.
Yeah, that's not right.
Yeah, there's actually, you can watch an interview with the governor of Virginia saying that
what would happen in that instance is we would keep the baby comfortable and then have a
discussion with the mother as to what she wants to do.
Right.
Meaning, you could still let that baby die.
And that's happening today.
Yeah.
Yeah, that is sick.
Yeah, that is.
Especially as a father.
which just gives it back to the states.
Because they'll still be able to do that in Virginia.
As sick as it is to me, but they'll still be able to do it.
Yeah, it is sick.
Yeah, isn't it? It turns your stomach.
Yeah, it is. Especially as a father.
How old are your little ones?
I have 10, 12, and 14.
Okay, so they're spaced out there.
I was going to say, you're not looking to an empty nest for a while with that 4-year-old.
One of them will be telling you he hates you, or she hates you, while the other one still thinks you're the best, you know?
So, balance your self-esteem.
Thank you, Darren.
I appreciate it, man.
Hey, how are you?
You got five minutes to talk?
Great!
What's your name?
Casey.
Casey, all right.
Well, that ties in perfectly because we're talking about the... You had all these protests there a couple days ago here about the Roe v. Wade situation.
Sure, absolutely.
Have you been following that?
Yes.
Okay, so first let me ask you, you consider yourself pro-choice or like pro-choice with limitations.
How would you define it?
I'm definitely pro-choice, you know.
I'm definitely pro-choice.
It's a leak right now, obviously, but if it's true, the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
It's ridiculous.
You know, as a woman, I think it's astronomical how we could consider, and no offense to you, but how a heterosexual male can tell me what I should and should not do with my body and what that actually means.
I think there's so many stipulations that go into this.
You know, there's a lot of circumstances.
And just so you know, I was told I couldn't have children.
I'm sorry.
It's okay.
But so this topic is like super sensitive to me and of course to my family, but I know Because you wouldn't need to have an abortion.
I wouldn't need to have one, but let's just say the opportunity ever arose itself.
There's all kinds of medical conditions and reasons, topical pregnancies, tubal pregnancies, things that happen to your body that require abortions for medical reasons for us as women to literally live and survive.
So for you to say, you're forcing me to either go through that experience and or,
heaven forbid, my kid is, there's all kind of testing that goes on early in your
pregnancy.
And they'll let you know that there's food on the brain for a baby or
something like that.
And they do not recommend you continuing on with that pregnancy.
I'm also 31.
And so a lot of us are getting pregnant later in life.
So sometimes that's an issue, right?
And it could be a health risk for the mother and the baby.
So whatever your reasoning is, more importantly, you could just be 18 and decide that that's not the decision that you want to make today and you're not comfortable with that.
You could be a victim of rape.
I don't care what your reasoning is.
I think it's 100% your choice to decide.
So none of those other things matter then?
We could have just eliminated all that.
Just do you think people should be able to get an abortion for whatever reason?
I think you should be able to make any decision, as far as HIPAA laws are concerned, for yourself and your body at any time.
Because a lot of people have different interpretations or understandings of what the overturning of Roe v. Wade is.
What is your interpretation of what would happen if Roe v. Wade was overturned?
My interpretation is that it doesn't matter what your reasoning is, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that abortions will now be illegal, or at least in the state of Texas, for anybody.
No.
Correct me.
No, it's not.
No, it's, and that's, it just gives the, it gives the right to states to make their own laws regarding abortion restrictions.
Sure.
So, Colorado, you know, New Jersey, Virginia, California, those states that have abortion laws all the way up until and include nine months, they can still do that.
So let me ask you a question.
Do you think Texas is gonna Vote in which direction?
Well, I'll get into my opinion in a second, but I want to sort of discuss the issue of
whether we agree on the fact that it's good or bad law.
So it's not banning abortion, it puts it back to the states.
I don't agree with that.
Okay.
So, what do you think should happen?
Do you think there should be a federal, uh, there should be enshrined in the federal law that abortion is a constitutional right?
I think it took a long time for Roe vs. Wade to even become about and to pass, and that if we aren't careful, history will continue to repeat itself over and over again.
So the fact that that law is what it is, I don't know why we're going back and trying to now tweak that.
It doesn't make sense to me.
And, forgive me, this is not meant to be a gotcha at all.
This law is complicated, and Roe v. Wade is complicated.
You know, that's why you had Roe v. Wade, then you had Planned Parenthood versus Casey, and these... It's always been a complex issue.
And I'm Casey.
Yes, exactly.
See, we tied it.
That's called a callback.
But, Roe v. Wade... The issue was right.
Roe v. Wade was sort of under the guise... It was settled under the guise of the 14th Amendment, the Due Process Clause.
Okay.
So there's no constitutional right to an abortion.
Okay.
And essentially because you just mentioned sort of the HIPAA laws.
And the idea was that under the Due Process Clause there's a right to privacy, which also isn't necessarily a constitutional right, but under the Due Process Clause that a woman had that right to privacy with her doctor and allowed states to set limitations only after the first trimester.
So it bans states setting limitations within the first trimester.
Absolutely, okay.
And then you have states that, for example, have had like a heartbeat bill, things that occur before the second trimester.
So that was the basis for Roe v. Wade.
Supreme Court and they looked at it and this is something that even Ruth Bader Ginsburg
said where they said, you know what, this is just sort of bad law so it has to go back
to the states.
Okay.
So that was the basis for Roe v. Wade.
Does that change your opinion at all that there really is, there's no constitutional
right to an abortion?
Not necessarily because when we talk about first trimester I think I also don't agree
that after your first trimester you should be looking at options as far as abortion,
Because at this point, your fetus is a full-grown fetus.
You know, there's things that are happening.
Your baby's developing.
So I understand up until that point.
But on a state-to-state basis or a federal basis, to me, I guess in that first trimester, it's still up to me and my doctor.
So it sounds to me like you're saying you do support eliminating abortion as an option after the first trimester.
I do.
I agree with that.
OK.
What changes, for example, from week 11 to week 12 that makes it no longer acceptable?
Eyeballs, fingers, toes, hair.
I mean, you know, you're going from this small cell.
I mean, just let's just make... But that happens before the second trimester.
Well, but the thing is...
Why is plan B a thing, right?
There's a reason why, day after something, you can go into CVS right now and a young lady can say, I know I did whatever I did last night and I'm going to make sure that I protect myself.
She probably had sex.
She did what I did.
I'm assuming sex.
Sure.
And so, to me, you saying, okay, here at this point in time, there's people where I'm not a doctor, right, obviously.
I wouldn't be wearing this.
Spoiler alert, neither am I. I don't know if you can tell.
So, you know, somebody somewhere sat down and said, this makes sense.
Who gets paid a lot more money than me and understands the anatomy of the human body.
But yeah, no, I don't... But that's kind of the issue though, right?
Is no one has sat down and said it made sense.
For example, in a place like Colorado, you can have an abortion all the way up until eight, nine months.
Yeah, no, I don't agree with that.
Okay.
And that'll still be the law in Colorado.
Sure.
And in Virginia, you know, you had the governor where there were babies who survived abortions and they were still being allowed to die because technically they had tried to abort them.
They'll still be allowed to do that in Virginia.
Well, what's the difference between that and some girl throwing herself down the stairs?
People are going to do what they want to do when they want to do it.
Well, no, this is about babies who were born who survived abortions and they were just leaving it in a room to die.
Sure, but you're saying in Colorado at eight months it's still legal for them to get abortions, which I didn't know.
That's what you're saying?
Yes.
Okay, so if a lady's eight months pregnant and she's just in dire whatever mental state and she decides she doesn't want to have that kid, what is to stop her from jumping off the top of this building and her pushing herself down the stairs?
Well, I don't know.
Hopefully there'll be some bars on the window.
We don't know.
We don't know.
Right.
But I'm just trying to understand your position, because it's something that's obviously a heated issue, and I'm trying to see where there is common ground.
It sounded to me like you were saying after the second trimester, no abortion, but now it sounds like you're saying, yeah, it should be fine for a place like Colorado to have abortions at 70.
No, I'm not saying that at all.
I literally said I do not agree with that.
But what I don't think is that we should go so far back that we're saying every state should make their own opinion before the first trimester, after the second trimester.
Because to me, I live in Texas, I'm originally from California, and I know we vote very differently between I hope that you're not one of those who comes from California and brings your politics here, because you left for a reason, right?
I didn't leave by choice.
My parents brought me here.
So, I think views are going to very much differ.
Living in the Bible Belt, I've seen how that can affect people.
I've seen how it affects me as a black person, 112%.
How so?
What's the 12?
What's the 12%?
What's the 12 past 100?
I literally went to a restaurant when I was 8 years old and they told my cheerleading coach that I couldn't go into their restaurant because I was black and that was in Texas and it would never happen in California.
That's terrible.
So, there's just things that are different.
It definitely happens in California.
Okay.
I appreciate talking to you.
It definitely happens in California.
This is really fun.
You were saying no racists in California?
Come on, there's no way.
Ever been to Venice?
I've seen some.
I lived in California too.
I've seen racists everywhere.
Yeah, definitely some neo-Nazis in California.
Thank you.
No problem.
No worries.
Thank you.
No problem.
No worries.
Thank you.
No problem.
No worries.
Thank you.
No problem.
No worries.
Thank you.
No problem.
Thank you.
No problem.
Was that Longview, Texas?
I don't know the... Maybe Tyler?
It's a really nasty way...
Have you been following this, the Roe v. Wade situation?
No.
Alright.
Can I ask you about it?
Because we're just talking with people that... Because you know there were these protests here all across, you know, this lawn a couple days ago.
Oh, okay.
And that's why we didn't ask people there because it was pretty heated, you know, and you don't really end up having good conversations.
I'm Steven, by the way.
Hi, I'm Tammy.
Tammy?
Yes.
Is that spelled with a Y or an I?
Y. Okay.
So, Tammy, you said that you're pro... you're kind of... you're pro-choice.
Yes, I am.
Okay.
Have you been following the... you haven't been following the Roe v. Wade situation?
Um, yes I have.
Okay, so what is your opinion on it's a leak but alleged but it seems like it's very likely that the court will
overturn Roe v. Wade
What's your opinion on that?
I mean from your perspective as someone who's pro-choice from what I understand, but
specifically on this kind of piece of law
I hope they don't Revoke the entire Roe v. Wade legislation. Okay. I just
hope that they make whatever current modifications they need to
for you know 2020 and to the future
So I don't know, a lot of people are, because it gets confusing, right, with some of the Supreme Court law and precedent, what happens with Roe v. Wade, a lot of people think that means there's a ban on abortion.
It doesn't.
What it means, if it gets overturned, is it goes back to states.
So the states can place restrictions, or a state can ban abortion if they want.
And then states like Colorado, like New Jersey, like California that have abortions all the way up until nine months can still do that, but it's on a state by state basis.
What do you think about that, considering that that's what would happen?
I hope the local You know, state legislation, they were way both sides, the pro-choice and the pro-life.
And when I vote, I'll vote pro-choice.
Okay, you vote pro-choice.
But do you think it's at least a reasonable decision to say states should have the right to decide?
Yes, uh-huh.
Okay, so you're not against the overturning of it, but you would like in your state for there to be access to abortion.
Yes, uh-huh.
Okay, that seems to be a lot of people, most people, but the media sort of framed it as though it's an outright ban
on abortion, right?
Which scares people, and it's not really what happens.
But let me ask you this, you're pro-choice, if you were to vote in your state, should there be any limitations on
abortion at all?
Where do we draw that line, let's say, in Texas?
What would you like to see, if you could wave your magic wand and have, you know, any type of laws?
Well, what I would like to see is the medical community work with the families and help them to make those decisions.
You know, it's a private health decision, and so I hope that they will seek counsel from their medical providers.
Do you think, do you believe that there's a cutoff as far as abortion, you know, where it should no longer be allowed?
Yes, uh-huh.
Yes, I think the doctors can help.
Well, when do you think that should be, though?
For example, so it sounds to me like you're not supporting, for example, states that have abortion up until and including nine months.
Does that seem too far?
Yeah, that's too far.
Unless, like I said, it's case by case, medical case by case, and unless something is wrong with the fetus and the doctor has already determined that something has to happen, Yeah.
Which is very rare, obviously, and they usually catch that well before nine months.
There's no medical reason for a nine-month abortion, or eight-month, or seven-month.
So, if you're living in Texas, where would you like to see that line drawn?
You know, because different states will be able to establish their different laws.
Would you like it to be, you know, no abortions after the first trimester, second trimester, heartbeat?
Where should the line be drawn for general abortions?
Again, I think you should seek help with your medical provider and let your OBGYN specialist assist you with making those decisions.
So, no limitations at the state level?
Yes, that's correct.
In Texas?
In Texas.
Well, there you go.
I appreciate it.
Thank you very much for taking the time.
So, what's your name?
I'm Bella, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you, Bella.
That's a pretty name.
Until Thorne had to ruin it for everybody.
Yeah, I know, right?
Oh my gosh!
So, Bella, are you familiar with, have you been following the Robey Way?
Yes.
Let me ask you the first question.
What do you think about the fact that it was leaked?
Well, I think that in itself is very scary because the privacy leak, you know?
And I just don't understand how something like that could have happened.
Right.
It is pretty scary and unprecedented.
I mean, yeah, the court is sort of supposed to be immune from that.
Yeah.
Okay.
So what's your opinion on the assuming that it's all correct and it's been mostly confirmed,
the overturning of Roe v. Wade?
I just, I mean, to answer your question just very simply, I just don't understand the whole debate.
Whereas, like, women should just be able to govern their own bodies.
Okay.
You know?
Well, that's a different conversation, right?
It's like where life begins and if it's your body or not.
Right.
Before we get to that, we can talk about that if you'd like to.
Sorry.
But I'd like to sort of talk, because a lot of people don't really know what overturning Roe v. Wade means.
And that's by design from the media.
They've obfuscated, made it complicated.
What is your impression of what happens if Roe v. Wade is overturned?
Well, from what I've understood, isn't it correct that
the whole thing is about like the document was leaked
and it had a decision regarding how women's bodies should be
governed.
Govern?
Isn't that correct?
No, so basically just, you know, Roe v. Wade, I don't know if, let's go back to kind of Roe v. Wade, when it happened.
Roe v. Wade, there's no constitutional right to an abortion.
Right.
It was sort of predicated under the 14th Amendment, the Due Process Clause, which they interpreted as a right to privacy, and so women with their doctor, and all Roe v. Wade really, what it did was it said that states could not place any restrictions on pregnancies or on abortions in the first trimester.
All that happens, if it gets overturned, is that changes where it goes on a state-by-state basis.
So California can make their own law, Texas can make their own law.
So if you want to have abortion all the way up until third trimester, eight months like some states, nine months like some states, they can do it.
And a place like Texas would legally be allowed to have like a heartbeat code.
Right.
Yeah, I think it is difficult.
I think it's odd if we're leaving the choice up to states to make that decision.
Does that make sense?
I think it's odd if we're leaving the choice up to states to make that decision.
If that makes sense.
I feel like holistically it should just be legal.
Okay.
Well, what it's just saying is it's not illegal federally.
Right, right.
And states can place restrictions if they want.
Right.
So, I mean, there are a lot of things, right, that we let states do.
Right.
Property taxes.
I mean, the way you do your education, for example.
Right.
Just public schools.
Some states have more agreements with charter schools.
So, this is just another example of it going to states' rights.
I guess the question is considering, you know, there were protests here and across the country that have gotten violent and outside of the Supreme Court justices' houses, which I think we agree on, the leak is a bad thing, the doxing is a bad thing.
Yeah, yeah, it's really bad.
Do we really think that the end result of overturning it is that extreme, that it warrants that kind of a reaction?
It's not a ban on abortion.
Yeah, it's not a ban on abortion.
I just, I mean, I'm sorry if I sound redundant, but I think the whole premise, I think the whole thing is just silly when we're talking about what women can and can't do with their bodies and their choices.
Yeah.
Well, then that gets to the... it's not really agreed upon.
Right?
Now, if we want to get to that conversation, we can have that conversation.
I'll tell you, I am pro-life.
Just so you know.
I think that Roe v. Wade is bad law.
And there are a lot of... even Ruth Bader Ginsburg said it really wasn't a good ruling because it's not a... there's no constitutional right to an abortion.
She said... she thought that at some point it would probably be undone.
So that's a separate issue.
People protesting sort of the changing of the law.
On the issue of what women do with their own bodies, and this is why it goes to states, can you at least understand... Because I can understand why you would say that.
I can understand the argument.
Can you understand why someone else, and particularly states and their legislatures, might say, But when there's another heartbeat, it's not your own body.
When there's another pair of eyes, fingers, toes, it's not your own body and they have the right, as they do in other state issues, to determine what limitations there are.
Can you understand why people think it's very different from any other issue and that they don't believe it's your body when there's another...
I understand that perspective because at that point when you start to have a heartbeat at a certain period of time, it does become another person involved because developmentally, right?
But I think I do agree with the fact that there should be at least some kind of cutoff point.
But the whole thing with like... When do you think that cut-off should be?
I mean, I feel like if there isn't a cut-off, then at that point, it's just kind of like, well, you had a long time to decide whether or not this was going to be the choice for you.
Right.
So, I can't give you an exact number, but I feel like at least before the fetus is fully, or at least partially fully formed, Yeah.
I feel like that would be a reasonable... That would be reasonable.
Yeah.
Okay.
Which is what most states will be doing.
Yeah.
You know, can I ask you, and this is just... Hey, Lane, can I grab this from you?
Just... Because this is also, I think this might help with Americans.
Because a lot of people, so let me kind of give you an example, right?
In Colorado, for example, and in Virginia, they can do abortions all the way up to here.
Yeah.
Texas says not after here, right?
A heartbeat bill?
About this area.
Where do you think Well... I mean, it is a good question.
But... It's hard to say.
I mean, I definitely shouldn't be anywhere over here.
That's a good question, but it's hard to say.
I mean, I definitely shouldn't be anywhere over here.
But I mean, I would say at least like over here, probably.
Okay.
I would imagine.
So that still includes the first trimester.
Yeah.
Which Roe v. Wade said you couldn't place restrictions right there at week 11 and 12.
Yeah.
And that's how, that's what was sort of brought, that's not sort of, that's what was brought to the Supreme Court because there were regulations that were created in this range.
And it was technically illegal for the states to do that?
Well, it's just, it's hard to say.
It's an odd perspective, but I just think that women should just be able to decide for themselves.
But should they be able to decide for themselves here?
And this is the thing, because it's a question, is Roe v. Wade, I think, is bad law.
But if someone is going to say it's good law, then it is incumbent upon them to say when, right, when is okay and when's not.
And it seems like you believe there should be some limitations.
Well, think about it this way.
Think about women who do make the choice to have an abortion.
They're already, depending on their perspective, but they're already going to be dealing with psychological repercussions.
From the abortion?
Yeah, and that's very common.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, there's a lot of trauma.
So, I feel like regardless at what state of development the baby is in, I mean, it's a choice that they have to make.
Yeah.
So even at these weeks?
Yeah.
So you support laws that allow abortion up until all the way nine months?
I would say, yeah.
I'm just a little confused because you said depending on where they are developmentally.
Those babies, they can be born.
There are plenty of babies.
My twins were born before this.
Yeah, I know.
I probably contradicted myself.
That's why I show it.
It's the opposite of a gotcha.
I'm trying to understand your perspective.
Because I will say, to me, the only way to consistently draw the line is at fertilization once there's new DNA that's separate from the mother and the father.
It's a new genetic code that determines everything from hand size, eye color, male pattern baldness.
Versus something arbitrary.
Right.
Because I think then you get into the territory of up until nine months, and I mean, we're no longer in a discussion of viability, right?
If you support that, then that just means, it doesn't matter if the baby is viable or not.
I have to run to work.
Okay.
Because this is the end of my lunch break!
Alright.
But I will just leave you with the fact that I think this is definitely an interesting discussion, and I think it's really good to explore it, and I do see your side.
Okay.
I see your viewpoint.
Thank you.
I think I would have to take a little bit more time myself to really think about exactly everything.
I think that's very reasonable.
I think we all should, as opposed to just yelling at each other.
Because you bring up good points, but at the same time, I mean, there's just a lot of variables.
I understand where you're coming from, and I understand that a lot of people feel that way.
Before you leave, would we at least agree that the overturning of Roe v. Wade has been a little misrepresented, and that most people think it's a ban on abortion?
Well yeah, I think there is the possibility it could be clouded.
I mean, also when you're dealing with mass social media, it's very easy for things to be misinterpreted.
Or even mainstream media like ABC and CNN.
And then you're gonna get into the whole Snowden thing, like everything's like...
Nothing is real.
Yeah, or like Big Brother's watching 1984.
Big Brother's definitely watching.
I think we both agree that Big Brother's definitely watching at this point.
I mean, at this point, I could have somebody looking at me in my phone.
Somebody could be watching me right now.
Do you know how you fix that?
Sticky notes.
I'm high-tech with that.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you for taking the time.
Be well.
Yes, thank you.
Hi.
How's it going?
Doing fine, thanks.
Do you want to eat up, John?
Hi! Do you want to find me? Do you want to eat up here?
Is this recording right now?
It could, yeah, it's recording.
But we're trying to get opinions from people, that's all.
about the Roe v. Wade situation going on.
What about you, you have three minutes?
It's more important to get a female's perspective.
Get out of here, get out of here.
Yeah, screw me, right?
What's your opinion on the potential overturning of Roe v.
Wade?
This isn't going to be a...
Is this recording right now?
It could, yeah, it's recording.
But we're trying to get opinions from people, that's all.
Just what your opinion is on the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
F*** up.
Okay, so you support the Roe v. Wade as it was before?
Oh yes, yes.
You know, that was created as a law by five white guys.
Yes, oh I know.
So I'm just saying they decided what women could do with their bodies.
Yeah, yeah.
But so either way that's kind of how it's going, right?
I'm like sweating right now.
I really can't be on camera.
I feel like this might be like They don't let you speak?
You're not allowed to speak your mind?
It's not white men who run that company, is it?
They shouldn't be able to tell you what you do with your mouth.
Do you want me to go talk to them?
Do you want me to go with you in the office?
I'll go in the office.
I'll talk to those white guys.
They can't tell you what you can and can't do with your body.
Okay.
Alright.
Go have your meeting.
Let's just make sure there are no white guys in there.
Well, yeah, I just... Are there white guys in that meeting?
You shouldn't be meeting with them.
You should be telling them to meet with you.
Yeah, fair enough.
Okay, good.
Like it's a black woman, or intersectional, who said... Don't let them be like, hey, you gotta be here at 1115.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's not them telling you, it's them using, like, you know.
My point is, do your own, you know, you do you.
Hey, what's that?
What's his name?
Gordo.
Gordo?
Mary, Gordo, like Mortal Kombat?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Awesome.
Is that why you were named Gordo?
No, I was named after a Canadian singer.
Like Gordon Lightfoot?
Uh, Gord Downie.
Gord Downie from Tragically True.
Oh yeah, sure, yeah.
Okay.
I'm Canadian, so are you Canadian?
No, I'm Texan.
Alright.
Born and raised.
Okay, now they're appropriating Canadian culture.
So, Gordo and Mary, thanks for taking the time.
You know, we just had a great conversation with those folks.
So friendly.
I think it's pretty fucked up what's going on.
I think everybody should have the right to choose.
Well, particularly women.
I think when it's something that's affecting your body, you should have the right to choose how you're You should have the right to choose how you go about your own health.
And I think taking that away from people, and not even just taking it away, but criminalizing it is very backwards stuff for a country that prides itself on freedom.
Criminalizing abortion.
Yeah.
Okay.
And what do you think, Mary?
What's your opinion?
I think it's terrible.
It's awful.
Same reasoning?
Same reasoning?
Yeah.
So let me ask you this.
Is it your impression that Roe v. Wade is overturning?
Well let me ask you this first.
What do you think about the leak?
The fact that this was leaked from the Supreme Court?
I think it's pretty crazy to have a leak of that magnitude.
But I think it's also very important that we have this knowledge so you can at least
talk about it before this all happens.
We have a very hard right-leaning Supreme Court right now, which we've had, of course, this is America, this is, we've had, whether Democrat or Republican, in the very large gist of the political scale, we are right-leaning throughout our history.
And but right now it's to an extent that we really haven't seen in a very, very long time,
really, since the Civil War.
So I think it's when you start taking away rights that have been affirmed over and over
and over on this magnitude, I think it's important to...
I'm sorry, but you sound like you're pretty right wing because you talked about freedoms
and personal liberties.
No, I think freedom and personal liberties, right-wing or left-wing, there's always bipartisan issues.
And no matter who you are, you're a f***ing communist.
You're a communist because you think freedom is of this way.
And I'm not a communist.
And you're a hard right-wing, it's because you want freedoms in this way.
Everybody has their own ideas of how to get there.
No, communism is not about freedom.
It's pretty clearly expressed that it's anti-freedom.
There's no one who argues that communism is freedom.
There are.
There's communists that argue that.
Not Marx or Lenin.
Marx does argue about the freedom that comes with communism.
It's about the leadership of the proletariat, which is the individual, which if you're into individualism, I'd assume.
Can I ask you, is it freedom if you're taking my rights away?
The right to my own body.
There are two different questions.
If we want to talk about abortion, we can.
I want to discuss the impression of the law.
You mentioned criminalizing abortion.
Are you under the impression that's what the overturning of Roe v. Wade is?
No, the overturning of Roe v. Wade is giving states the right to criminalize abortion.
States to set their own rules.
But if you go deeper into it... More specifically, in the second and first trimester.
If you get into this, there is a big discrepancy, particularly in the US, between income levels.
Particularly in a state like Texas, which is f***ing huge, as you know, if you don't make enough, it costs to get to another state to have an abortion, just to travel out, it's gonna be like gas prices are incredibly high, all this.
What did they get today?
Are they over 40?
God.
It's not that bad.
He just said it was bad.
Seems like you're couching it a little bit.
But, if you don't have the money, which a lot of, there are quite a lot of low-income people, not just in Texas, but in the US in general, to get out, to access your right to an abortion, which isn't even your right unless you're in another state, you can only do that if you have money.
So, unless there's, I'm against criminalizing abortion completely, but if you want to go like that, and you still care about personal freedoms and rights, there should be, like, very hardcore programs to allow the people that do want it to go to another state.
And how it's set up right now, it's gonna, it's leading the way to make it not just illegal to have an abortion within Texas or whatever state that criminalizes it, but to make it criminal to go to another state to get an abortion.
And I think that's like pretty, it's pretty totalitarian and authoritarian.
So would it make it, your impression is that it would make it criminal to go to another state to get an abortion?
No, but that's what it's leading up to because these are precedents we're talking about.
I haven't heard that suggested at any kind of event.
Well, I just told you, this is how precedents work in legal scenarios.
You're setting a very large precedent like this, which gives people the right to go further and further and further.
The whole Roe v. Wade precedent is based on that abortion wasn't mentioned in the Constitution.
But also the right to marry interracially isn't in the Constitution.
That's true.
A lot of things that we take as very granted and that are important aren't mentioned in the Constitution.
So I think this is like a very dangerous thing that's happening right now.
Yeah, I think there's... and your question was, now I understand where you're coming from, I would disagree with... First off, do you mean precedent or precedence?
You used both.
Precedent.
Okay, precedent.
And you asked me a question earlier.
I asked you a question.
No, it's up to the states.
I wanted to get to the Supreme Court kind of Roe v. Wade law.
So I actually appreciate you understand that it goes to the states and the states have that, you know,
have that right because you actually understand what Roe v.
Wade being overturned is.
A lot of people think that there's a federal criminalizing of abortion, which isn't really the case.
No, it's up to the states.
Yeah, I don't really, I haven't seen any literature that suggests that might be a legal trouble.
Over half the states already have a...
And it's also, I think it's also very difficult to, when it leads it to the states,
because the gerrymandering is so intense in places like Texas and stuff,
which really skews the political outlook when the large majority of people in cities like this,
like Dallas, do vote blue and I'm not a Democrat.
In fact, I'm very heavily against the Democratic Party.
just about as equally as much as I'm against the Republican Party.
I think the US politics are f***ed across the board.
So how would you identify?
I am progressive left-winging.
I believe in human rights, which I mean, I think we all deserve a right to...
We're the richest country in the world and it's 2020.
We're very progressive.
We have the right to health care.
We have the right to bodily autonomy and to be an individual person.
To chase your self-actualization.
Be the person you want to be as long as you're not harming anybody else.
I know this is where it comes down to because In abortion, in this rhetoric it always comes down to whether you believe a fetus is a person or not.
And I believe, because I don't remember and nobody remembers what they were as a fetus because you're not sentient, I don't believe you're a person until you're born, until you're a sentient being.
I don't remember anything before my second birthday.
Yeah, me neither.
I'm also not advocating for aborting someone at a year old, but this is not what we're talking about.
The line of sentience, right?
The right to your own body.
But you're not in the world at all.
Why are you forcing women to carry out a pregnancy that they can't afford?
You know that would lead up to a lot of high rates of infant mortality, people can't take care of a child, people can't go to the doctor.
It's a problem.
The healthcare system is awful.
You can't afford to have a child in this country.
It's expensive.
I'm 21.
I could never afford to have a child.
I can afford my health insurance that is expensive, but once a year?
Twice a year to go to the doctor, but that's about it.
I can't afford to go to a hospital and have a child.
We can't even afford to go to the hospital in general.
I can't afford housing in this state, in this country, actually.
Yeah, I can't even afford to go to the doctor in general.
If I get actually sick, sick, like, I'm f***ed.
People that make $100,000 a year, you get cancer, you're bankrupt.
Where do you work?
Right now, I just got back from Europe, doing a study abroad, so this is my first day back, so I don't have a job right now.
What are you studying?
I study human rights, actually.
Okay, cool.
Where were you studying?
At like a university?
Where were you studying?
Okay.
Barcelona.
At like a university?
Yeah, IAU is the university.
It's my final semester so I was just finishing, I've already finished my degree, I was just
doing like my electives basically and traveling.
But yeah, I study human rights at SMU actually.
Okay, so you said you can't afford a house?
No.
Who can afford a house at like, I'm 23.
Who can afford a house at 23?
Unless you're at Mark, uh... Or you said you can't afford a place to live.
Uh, yeah, well I could afford a place to live if I was willing...
Compared to five years ago, it was very easy for me.
For five years ago, I could go bartend, which is what I normally do, and I could afford a decent place for like $800, $700 a month.
In Dallas, it's very hard to find.
To get a place that's not cockroach infested and falling down, I'd have to have two or three roommates, which is normal.
But, I mean, I've been here my entire life and it's just getting, uh... I've seen the change firsthand.
We bought our house for $80,000.
That neighborhood's about $400,000 now because of these multi-corporations coming in and buying up our neighborhoods.
Like Vanguard and BlackRock.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We'd probably agree, you know, Elizabeth Warren said they should be too big to fail.
I don't think any company is too big to fail.
They should fail.
Um, yeah, I think, yeah, but I understand where you're going with this, uh, situation, and I also believe that... Where am I going?
Well, I believe that, uh, when a corporation gets, uh, past a certain threshold of money, they should be checked and limited by the government, because, um, I believe it was Thomas Jefferson has a quote where he talks about if, uh, the power goes towards, if the power goes No, this will be totally unedited.
I really appreciate everything you've been saying.
later if you want. You probably won't because I know you like to nitpick your things. Nothing
against you. No, this will be totally unedited. I really appreciate everything you've been
saying. There's a thing about Thomas Jefferson that talks about when the money is like, you
can look up Thomas Jefferson bank quote I believe, and basically when the banks, if
they're given too much money, and by banks it's capital interest goes above the people,
it's no longer a democracy.
And it's true.
I certainly agree.
We really pride ourselves on being a democracy, but we're not.
I think we can find common ground there.
I can find common ground with a lot of right-wing people, but our ideals are against each other because there are certain things that... Hold on, can you let me speak?
I think we're saying the same thing on Too Big to Fail.
I think that big banks want to privatize profits and socialize losses.
Right?
And I think you're saying pick a lane so where we won't find common ground is more so socialize the banks.
Well, what do you mean about socialized losses?
Can you expand on that?
Well, they get bailed out by the taxpayer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In other words, when the bank has a problem, they're insured by the federal government.
And so that's the taxpayer, and that's people who really shouldn't, even people who are middle class, people who are lower middle class paying taxes shouldn't bail out banks, right?
Do we agree on that?
I do agree on that.
But even past that, what the hell do we get as taxpayers even without that?
We're one of the richest nations in the world, we don't have our free healthcare, we don't have a public transport system that's adequate.
Dallas, we have a public transport system, but come on, it's bullshit.
Is there no public transit?
For most of the U.S., compared to Europe, you don't need a car, really.
You can survive quite easily without one.
For most of the U.S., if you don't have a car, you are struggling.
You don't have a life.
You don't have the ability to have a social life.
It's difficult to get to work.
The U.S.
is quite big.
We don't invest at all in... We don't invest in the social good, really, with any of our tax money.
Our tax money is...
I don't really know that I agree with that.
I mean, you're talking about many, many trillions of dollars spent in the war on poverty.
We just talked about multi-trillion dollar infrastructure bills.
No, I agree.
I just don't think that the federal spending on the war on poverty works.
Just like the war on drugs hasn't worked.
I don't think throwing more money at it helps.
I think that the problem is the corruption.
Well, I think the problem there, right, is we would both agree that it's corruption.
There's a lot of money that's being spent.
It's not being spent in the right way.
I don't necessarily think that all those things are fundamental human rights, but I certainly would argue that the money is being spent very poorly.
I mean, there's a lot of money being spent.
We have a spending problem, and it's not going anywhere useful.
But I wanted to get back to kind of Roe v. Wade and the subject.
Let me ask you this, because there are people, for example, we had four people there, you know, African Americans, who How do you know there are four African Americans?
I said four.
Oh, four.
I thought you said four.
Ooh, careful with your presumptions.
No, I thought I misheard you.
It wasn't a presumption.
It sounded four and four.
There were four African Americans there.
The number four.
I thought you said four.
Okay, I didn't.
What were you asking?
Yeah, well thanks.
Is, um, you know, they, so their point of view was, okay, they were pro-choice.
And then she was a mother of four.
And when I asked her about the Texas heartbeat bill, she said, well yeah, of course, after
a heartbeat, because she had done an ultrasound, she said that's a separate heart, whose heart
are you stopping?
My question to you is this, because I know you're coming in hot and, and, and, and, and
I'm not coming in hot.
I'm really speaking like... I'm not coming in hot.
I'm not being aggressive.
You understand the other perspective where someone says, someone does certainly have
more than half the country believe in a limitation at some point, that at a certain point it's
no longer your own body.
That's their argument and that's why the Supreme Court has said it's bad law and states should
have the right to enforce those regulations.
Will the fetus survive if it's outside of your body?
So you don't have any children, right?
No, I don't.
Because a baby won't survive outside of the body.
No, it's relying on your body.
Right.
A baby won't survive outside of the body, but I mean a baby delivered naturally won't survive outside of the body.
Yeah, well, I mean... We're talking about a fetus right now, not a baby.
I'm talking about a fetus.
So what changes from, let's say...
Well, one's a fetus and one's a baby.
I'm sorry, eight months, four, you know, three weeks, six days to nine months.
Is it just inside outside the womb that makes it a person?
Well, one's a fetus and one's a baby.
But why is one a fetus if it's, if it's just one day, nine months,
it's not relying on your body to your umbilical cord.
And once it's outside and cut, that's.
So is that what defines a person as the umbilical cord?
My opinion, yeah.
So what if a woman gives birth and they haven't cut the cord yet?
Does that mean they can abort the baby at that point?
Nobody's even talking about aborting like a baby that's still on the cord.
It actually does exist.
It actually does exist.
There was a bill.
But we have like so many billions of people in the world.
It was a bill presented that And I feel like I've been pretty respectful in letting you talk a lot and go in a different direction.
Well, you're interviewing me, so of course I would talk a lot.
So, yeah, and I'm also being respectful.
Well, I think interrupting is different from talking a lot.
Would we agree?
Well, if you want me to leave, it's okay.
I would like to hear her answer.
I'm having a conversation.
Okay, so, um, is that what defines personhood?
I mean, the point that other people are defining personhood, and people define it differently, and I understand that.
For example, these four African Americans said, okay, heartbeat, they agree with the Texas bill.
Some people think that it's after the first trimester.
Can I ask you why is it called the heartbeat bill?
Because it's when you can detect a fetal heartbeat.
Can you detect a fetal heartbeat at six weeks?
Yes.
I'm not sure about that.
Here you go.
Okay, so, what is your argument?
You used to be able to, but you can now with more advanced ultrasound.
And I just had twins, so, yeah, I know for a fact.
What is your argument?
No, my question is, can you understand, in other words, those people who were horrified, right, at the idea of aborting a baby after a heartbeat.
And there are a lot of Americans who believe that, okay, once it has its own fingers, toes, sex, you know, there are people who believe, like I do.
I believe in the woman's choice.
I believe in the right to choose.
So when does that line, I guess, when is there the line of, and this is why it's going to states.
I mean, I've talked to many people, many people that are pro-choice about this.
I know, I mean, I believe the woman has the right to abort a child whenever they want.
So all the way up until nine months, including birth?
Yeah.
And you don't believe that that baby is a person at 8 months, 7, even though they could be born and viable.
Because you said viability earlier.
They are viable.
It's viable at 21 weeks.
If it's a person, I mean, if it's still in your body, you have the choice to do what you want with your body.
So is the location what determines a person?
In your body or outside of your body?
Well, once it's delivered, you carry it.
Okay, first of all, nobody really wants to abort a child at 8 months.
Yeah, it does.
It happens all the time.
For many reasons, if they... I've had a couple friends with abortions, and it was never at 8 months.
It was always at, like, when they find out.
A few months, yeah.
It happens.
It happens tens of thousands a year.
My problem also with this abortion bill is that it's making it so... Why?
Why do they want to abort the child at 8 months old?
Whenever we're shifting the goalposts, right, I'm just saying it does happen, and there are states that restrict it, but there are some states that don't.
My question is, would you restrict it then, if you're saying... No.
Okay, so someone should be able to abort at 8 months, 9 months.
Um, if that's what they choose.
Okay.
Why?
Why?
Because it's their body, so it's their choice.
So... It's a person who is able to have a child, so it's their choice.
So, if a woman is eight months pregnant, using your premise, since we've gone to this, does that woman have 20 fingers?
Does she have 20 toes?
Does she have a penis, if it's a boy?
What does that matter?
Does she have two brains?
What does that matter?
Well, because you're ending the life, the functioning life, of another human being that has all of those things.
So I'm saying, you're saying that's her body, so that woman has 20 toes?
What does that matter?
It's not her body if she doesn't have 20 fingers and toes.
Oh, you're saying 10 fingers plus her 10 fingers, that's 20 fingers.
Is it still the woman's body?
It's her child, it's her body, so it's her choice.
Is it her child or is it her body?
Both!
It's... What is that?
Who decides when it's a child?
Probably the person that's carrying.
Whether you would call it a child or a fetus.
I know this is what it comes down to.
Is it a child or a fetus?
In my opinion, when it's in your body, the medical idea of what you call it a fetus is a fetus.
If you aborted me when I was a fetus, I'm not going to f***ing complain because I don't f***ing know.
Because I'm not f***ing sentient.
I'm not a person.
You're a matter of sense.
Well, there are plenty of people who aren't sentient.
People with brain damage, babies who aren't sentient.
Yeah, I'm not talking about f***ing cleansing or anything like that.
I'm talking about... But you brought up sentience.
And I'm just saying that's an important distinction to make.
I understand, yeah.
Why is it not?
Because you said child or her body.
There's a big difference.
Is it a child?
I'm just using... I'm trying to understand where you're coming from.
You're not in this world yet.
I think you're actually trying to understand where I'm coming from.
Well, I asked you, could you understand where they're coming from?
Because I was four people.
Can you understand where they say, well, it's a separate heartbeat, so I understand some kind of restriction?
Yeah, but I also think maybe they just aren't fully knowledgeable on the entirety of the Texas bill that was passed four or six weeks ago.
The four black people?
Yeah.
Maybe.
I don't know.
I don't know them.
I didn't talk to them about it.
But there are a lot of Americans who think there should be a limitation.
You understand that your view is considered, you know, is extreme left, extreme right, is no abortions, even in the case of rape and incest.
Yours is abortion up until nine months.
That's considered a pretty radical view.
Yeah, it is.
And so I'd be curious to understand where you draw, and it seems to me like your, well statistically it's a radical view.
Most Americans don't agree with that.
Doesn't mean that it's right or wrong.
I'm just saying it would be considered very far left.
Yeah.
What makes it acceptable, and this is a question that I'm really, I am trying to understand, what makes it acceptable when it's a baby that is totally viable, because that's what you brought up first, is completely viable outside of the womb?
There's no debate at this point, right?
It's still connected to her body.
So it's the umbilical cord.
Can I bring something up real quick?
The fetus is still relying on the nutrients of her body to survive.
Right.
So it's her choice to end that pregnancy.
So it is exclusively that a baby is relying on the nutrients of the mother.
Because we both know the baby is relying entirely on the mother's capabilities for a year, two years after.
Well, once the baby is born and once it's not connected to that person, then...
The baby's reliant on the mother's nutrients at that point, right?
No, not necessarily, no.
Because of modern technology.
But for the longest time, they had to be breastfed.
They're still reliant on the mother's nutrients.
Can I bring something up real quick?
Well, not the mother that... You don't necessarily have to be the mother that birthed the child to keep the child alive.
Right, but it's reliant upon the nutrients of another woman.
You said it's reliant upon the actual nutrients of another body.
So, what's the difference between the now-child breastfeeding versus the child who is relying on the nutrients inside the body, is what you're saying.
That's my question.
Yeah, um... Well, it's... The person that had the child inside their body is... Where am I going?
We've been drinking, but can I bring something up?
You brought up the war on drugs earlier, and how it was ineffective, because we poured all this money into it, and we really heavily criminalized drugs to an extreme extent, and it never worked.
It actually made the problem worse.
If you read any white papers, any research paper on abortion and limiting abortions, no matter what your ideal of how conception or when it becomes a baby, Abortions, like, throughout anywhere that abortions have been criminalized, they still happen.
But when you criminalize them, then you have the problems that we're facing right now.
In the drug world, it's fentanyl, and I've lost three friends in two years from fentanyl.
But in abortions, it's going to be illegal abortions, because people are still going to be desperate and still going to have them, and people are still going to die and be, like, armed.
So, if I... Now, I'm 21 years old.
They won't be illegal?
Right now, I'm 21.
I can't afford to have a child, but...
I, if I were pregnant, I couldn't afford to have a child, I would get an abortion.
A safe, legal abortion.
It would allow me to have a child in the future.
Because it's, I didn't have to harm my own body to abort this child.
Right.
So if, a safe, easy abortion, legal, would ensure that I was able to have a child in the future.
So why, I don't... I don't understand the question.
Are you asking me a question?
No, I'm just making a point.
OK. Because I was still waiting for the answer to the question regarding the breastfeeding
and umbilical cord. And I understand you were talking about fentanyl. If we don't have abortions,
we'll have more fentanyl.
If you're taking away safe legal abortions, then I... if someone has no choice and can't
afford a child and still...
They have a lot of choices.
You didn't let me finish.
If it was not legal to have an abortion and a person is still able to go out and have what we call a back alley abortion, it could ruin their body for the rest of their life.
They're not going to be able to have a child in the future.
f***ed up their uterus.
They, you know, it's...
So a safe legal abortion would ensure that that child, or that person, could have a child in the future.
Not necessarily.
Why?
Abstinence doesn't work.
correlation equaling causation that a safe legal abortion and there's of course the arguments
we made that it's never safe for the baby involved.
But there are other choices that wouldn't insure anything because what does insure it
is contraception, abstinence, motherhood, adoption.
Why is it not?
Abstinence doesn't work.
Everybody knows that.
I gave you three other options.
And also can I tell you adoption.
I don't know about you, but there's never been a single baby from people who haven't been having sex.
Yeah, but we're all human and everybody has sex and you try to teach kids about abstinence like they taught us in Texas and it doesn't work and a lot of people get pregnant when they're young because they don't know anything about contraception.
They get pregnant if they're not practicing abstinence.
Yes, I agree with you.
But who practices abstinence?
Are you going to be a monk?
Do you practice abstinence?
I've written about it extensively, yeah, before I was married.
Yeah, but do you practice it?
Yeah, before I was married, yeah.
A lot of people do.
To each their own.
Well, you just made an argument and said to each their own.
Yeah.
Well, you know, most people don't do abstinence contraception.
A teenager in high school, if you tell them to never have sex, well, of course they're going to have sex.
And a lot of people don't have abstinence contraception.
And you never teach the person or the child in high school how to have safe sex.
That's a whole point of abstinence, right?
Well, I'm not advocating that.
I think I was pretty good because I brought up the other choices outside of abortion, right?
I don't really give a s**t, yeah.
I don't know what your point is.
Well, you said that that choice of safe, legal, and rare abortion... No, we're just spiraling out of control here.
Well, you said the choice of safe, legal, and rare abortion would ensure, and I was saying there are other options that ensure it.
Can we go back and wrap it up real quick?
Absence, contraception... No, no, hold on a second, let me finish.
I'm sure you're aware that there are states that are making contraceptives illegal.
No, I'm not.
You're not aware of that?
There are no states right now that make contraception illegal.
No, I'm not.
You're not aware of that?
There have been multiple talks.
There are no states right now that make contraception illegal.
Well, you know, they're trying to, right?
So now we've changed the goalposts.
No, we haven't.
We haven't.
We haven't.
No, that's literally what I just said.
Mississippi right now has talked about how making contraceptives legal is not off the board.
Which is a pretty intense thing to say.
The state legislature of Mississippi has not said that.
What about Louisiana and the IUD?
Can we bring it back and wrap it up on whatever?
Yeah, no, I thought we just did bring it back.
You brought it back to the War on Drugs that you were studying human rights abroad and can't afford a house, and that's a human right on the internet, and I think we've gone to a lot of different directions.
What I wanted is to have a conversation about Roe v. Wade, and I appreciate you going these different directions.
You can smoke if you want.
It's okay.
I appreciate it, though.
Thanks for offering.
Um, but, uh, I think I understand where you guys line up on Roe v. Wade and I think that there's a divide in this country and, you know, states are going to be able to establish their own laws.
My point is, is I, I mean, you're not able to carry a child because I'm assuming that you are a man without a uterus.
Why?
Because you're Steven Crowder and I know you have a penis.
You can show us real quick if you want to prove it.
No, that's a felony.
We're okay with it, we're consenting.
It doesn't matter, the other people here aren't consenting.
I'll show you mine if you consent.
That's the last thing I want to see.
It's pretty big.
He never goes to the doctor so maybe... Yeah, maybe it's because he lays it on the microwave.
So, I'm a man.
I'll go with it.
I'm a man.
I'm a man.
Let me guess, you're about to say because I'm a man I shouldn't have an opinion on abortion, right?
Do you have an opinion on murder?
Theft?
Arson?
Come on.
It's a silly argument.
You can have an opinion.
We're all interested in your opinion.
Thank you, man.
I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
You guys have a good day.
Be safe.
You too.
Well, there you have it.
We managed to speak to the view of the majority of Americans on, OK, abortion with some limitations.
The radical 30% who don't believe in any at all.
And this guy asked us for $5.
And then he went and bought weed.
So I guess subscribe?
What does weed go for?
All right, I'm going to level with you.
If you liked this video, you have to hit the share button.
Otherwise, your entire family will die.
I don't write the rules.
I just call them.
And this is clipped from the live show every Monday through Thursday at 10 a.m.
Eastern.
That's the best thing you can do to watch.
I mean, you know, you ran a fall.
Your family's dead.
My family is dead, but my mother left me with this shirt before she went home to meet the Lord.
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