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May 15, 2015 - Louder with Crowder
32:34
US Woman Leaving Islam Exposes Dark Truth || Louder With Crowder
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Disclaimer here, this is the first time we've done this, but the name and voice of the innocent lady you're about to hear had to be disguised for security purposes.
This is a person who is currently in the process of leaving Islam, is facing real danger, and we do ask that you listen to this entire interview in its totality to understand the context and do her story justice.
Back here, Louder with Crowder.
So glad to have this next guest.
We're going to use a code name here, Codename Q. And let me tell you why it'll make more sense.
I got a message on Facebook.
And I get quite a few of these, but this one really caught my eye.
Because of the nature of it, this was a young lady who talked about having watched one of my videos, one of the Quran Challenge videos, and actually having gone through a pretty big transition in leaving the Islamic faith.
So you can imagine that she wants to keep her identity under wraps.
Her name is not, in fact, Q. But for today, that is her name, Q. Thank you so much for coming on.
Hi, thank you.
Okay.
I know it's awkward using the different name here.
Listen, I got your message, so I guess, you know what, just sort of, I don't want to speak for you, kind of walk me through what happened here.
You were Muslim, I guess, to begin with, or where did it start?
No, I was raised Christian my entire life, Pentecostal, and most of my friends were Muslim.
I went through a rough patch and I turned to Islam.
At the time, I thought it was exactly what I needed in my life.
It came in such a quick whirlwind in my life.
And I converted.
I converted during Ramadan.
Oh, that's a rough time to convert.
Yeah.
You went in with both feet.
I felt really pressured into it at the time, you know, because all my friends are Muslim, and I wasn't living at home at the time, wasn't on great terms with my family.
And, yeah, it was just a time in my life where I really felt like I felt failed by Christians and At the time, I felt failed by God, you know?
And Islam, you know, my Muslim friends were the ones there for me, and they kind of took me under their wing, and they were teaching me things, and I really had no idea much about it at the time.
Sure.
And my cousin was Muslim.
She converted to a Muslim man.
And I was really at their house a lot, and they started taking me to the mosque.
And yeah, everybody just like, when you walk into a mosque and you're not Muslim, they just kind of like, you know, all come at you.
Yeah, I can imagine.
Yeah, big time.
Yeah.
So, okay, so this happened.
So I think that's a story.
I mean, people would argue that's not necessarily exclusive to Islam, that a lot of people find faith of any variety when they're in a rough spot in their life.
Right.
So, for how long were you practicing Muslim?
Since 2008.
Okay, so since 2008.
And this was a recent leaving from the message you sent me.
Yeah, about two months ago.
Okay.
So, now not to sound self-aggrandizing, you mentioned that a big part of it was in watching one of my videos that you learned some things you hadn't known and it sort of caused you to explore it a little more?
Right.
Well, I, you know, through my years, I've seen a lot of things in Islam that are horrible things.
I mean, I've seen, I've heard, I've witnessed Terrible things from Muslims and, you know, and it stems from Islam.
It's not like you can say, oh, well, you know, anybody's bad, but no, like, horrible things through Islam.
And I always kind of looked at it with rose-colored glasses on, you know, but over the past few months, I was feeling like, you know, something's not right here.
You know, seeing young girls being forced into marriage and all these things, and I was just...
I was sitting at home and I seen a rebuttal video of a Muslim aide to one of yours.
Oh, that's right.
Yeah.
Talk Islam.
We invited him on the show and no interest.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I see that and I was like, well, you know, he was talking about the crime challenge and I was like, well, I've never, you know, I wanted to see the original video that he was doing the rebuttal to.
So I watched it and I was like, wow, like, I didn't know some of that stuff about, you know, I used to be sick and you were saying all these surahs and I ended up looking them all up.
And, you know, I was asking my, texting my Muslim friends and my husband at the time, you know, what's this about and what does this one mean?
And, you know, no one really, they just kind of dance around it, you know, like, well, yeah, that's true, but, you know, Christians do it too, you know?
Right.
That's the thing which isn't true.
And so I ended up watching all your videos.
Oh, jeez.
Yeah.
The more I was watching, the more I was just like, wow, like, this is...
He's so right on, you know?
And a lot of it I didn't know, and so I started looking it up and whatever, and then that night I decided for myself I was done.
I was done.
Oh, wow.
There was no way...
There was no way I could justify it anymore.
You know, I had come to a point where it had gotten to be so many...
There's signs that, you know, this isn't right.
Like, it's not right.
It's evil.
Yeah.
It is.
There's nothing peaceful about it.
There's nothing beautiful about it.
Well, I guess to the people who would say, if that's the case and you see that now, why didn't you see that as someone who, you know, was old enough to make a critical decision and entered into the faith?
What do you think?
Why didn't you know that then?
Um...
On hindsight, looking back, because I asked myself that, you know, as someone I'd like to think I have a lot of common sense, and looking back, I asked myself the same thing.
Why didn't I see it sooner?
Especially coming from a Christian family who, you know, would warn me and pray for me and all these things.
And I was really, really searching for something different from what I was raised in.
And I was really angry at God for a long time.
And, um, I don't know, I think I just looked at it with rose-colored glasses on.
You know, like I would hear things and I would go to an imam and I would go to somebody and I would say, this is what I heard, this is what I read in the Quran and, you know, I don't understand, I don't necessarily like it, you know, can you explain it to me?
Hold on one second.
We have to go to a break real quick because I don't want to cut you off.
We will be back with Codename Q after this.
We are back with my guest.
I don't want to interrupt her.
Quick recap.
Codename Q because she converted from Islam and this is the first time she's talking about it this publicly.
And you were just telling us about how you would go when you began questioning to your imams.
And that's the stage.
Okay, sorry.
Continue.
Okay.
Yeah, so I was looking at it with rose-colored glasses on, and they would, you know, just tell you, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong, it doesn't mean it's not right, and, you know, there's a lot of things we don't understand with God and whatever.
And I understood, and I accepted.
But you've got to understand, with Islam, there's such a deceptive spirit that comes along with it, and unless you, like, Let me
ask you this.
Yeah.
I was going to ask you, because you talk about women converting, and the truth is, statistically, there aren't a ton of people who convert.
It's usually obligatory, or birth rates is how Islam is really growing, but there are some people who convert.
What is, and forgive me, I'm not asking this to be rude, but what could possibly be the appeal for a woman to convert to something as oppressive as Islam?
I mean, what's the thought process there?
Okay, you know, I get that a lot.
And the thing about it, Is most of the time when a girl converts, it's for a man.
Most of the time.
You know, they need a Muslim man who sweeps them off their feet and they fall in love.
And they make you feel protected.
And they make you feel special.
And they tell you all the time, you know, we believe that heaven and ghana lies beneath the woman's feet.
And you get to heaven through the woman.
And I don't...
I can't explain it.
There's this attraction to it where they're protective and they care and they make it sound like...
Do you think maybe it's also sort of because...
Listen, let's be honest.
That's been lost in modern society.
A lot of men are just sort of...
There's a lot of objectification and you feel like, oh, they're more gentlemanly.
Would that be fair?
Exactly.
Like, chivalry isn't dead with them.
Sure.
They treat you like you're...
A queen on top of the world.
You know, they treat you so amazing at first.
Right.
And then usually you'll hear, like, once you marry the man and start having kids with the man, it changes.
You know?
It does.
Sure.
It doesn't stay that way.
That's how they get you.
And then once you're in it, then you realize, you know, most people realize, some don't, but you realize that it's kind of not what you signed up for.
You know, there's I know hundreds of girls who converted and then, you know, they thought it was the love of their life and then they end up getting their meet up every day.
And, you know, I was married and I wasn't allowed to work.
I wasn't allowed to have friends.
Every time I got a friend, he'd find something wrong with the friend.
You know, I couldn't go anywhere.
Barely, he couldn't even go to a restaurant.
And you're saying...
Essentially, you're just a TV maker.
Well, a lot of people would say...
And I can understand where they're coming.
They would say, well, you're talking to a woman who left because of a bad husband, and so she's just using it to tarnish all of Islam.
That's an exception.
That's not the rule.
That this isn't particularly common.
It was just your case.
Oh, no.
It's very common.
Is it?
Really, really common.
And that's the dangerous thing about Islam.
And I really feel like that's how Islam is going to start really making its way in this country.
I mean, people don't realize how many girls convert daily, and how many girls...
I think that's how they're going to get through this country, is they convert the girls, they have tons of children with the girls, and then they raise those kids with them.
I know hundreds.
And it happens every day.
And it's not uncommon.
Now, how do you know hundreds?
That seems like a very big number.
Is it because you've sort of been plugged into a network of...
Well, yeah.
Through, you know, mosques and through, you know, in the Arab community, it's a very tight-knit community.
Almost everybody knows everybody.
Okay.
Especially with the women.
You know, if you go into Dearborn or some tram, Juana, New York, Those are very high Arab communities.
Everybody knows everybody.
All the women know each other.
All the women talk.
I talk to women who live overseas who have never been here.
Really tight-knit community.
Everybody knows everybody.
Yeah, that makes sense in Montreal.
We have that definitely with the Lebanese community.
You always have, especially sort of these multicultural enclaves.
Yeah.
Okay, so I'm sorry.
It is fascinating to me, and I want our listeners to get the full scope of your experience and what it's like.
And I know what they're going to say.
You just have to be prepared.
No, I know.
I know.
I get it, too.
Okay.
And you've read the comments, if you've no doubt seen the videos.
And I mean, listen, we've been targeted not only for acts of violence by Muslims, but of course censorship on YouTube with downvotes and trying to get rid of advertisers.
So let me ask you this, because a lot of people will say, and I don't think it's necessarily wrong, they'll criticize me, even Christians are saying, you know, you'll never convert anyone with something like the Quran challenge.
Well, let me give you sort of my logic, and you can tell me if this is what happened with you.
My logic is I'm not creating that video for the guy who creates the talk Islam rebuttal.
I'm not creating that video for your husband where there is no chance of me converting him.
But I feel as though when you have people who are manipulators, who are proactively lying to their constituency, and I think you see that a lot with talking Islam.
If I can make an example of them and, yes, be a little bit biting, yes, be a little bit vicious, it allows me not to reach them but to reach people like you who can see them be exposed.
That's my logic.
That's right on.
That was exactly it.
And, yeah, and that's essentially why I wrote you, is because I figured, you know, I'm sure you get a lot of hate mail from Muslims.
Yes, I do.
A lot.
Yours was actually literally sandwiched in between anti-Semitic emails, even though I'm not Jewish, from Muslims.
Yeah, and I figured, you know, I'm sure for someone like you who does videos like you do, I'm sure it's nice once in a while to hear that you reach somebody that, you know, you affected somebody.
And a positive way through it, you know, instead of all the hate mail.
And you did.
And I was very manipulated by these people for years.
Crazy.
And I really just needed that push.
You know, I was in another state.
I had no family, no friends.
I was alone with my husband and my three kids.
All I had was his family.
And I knew something wasn't right.
And I felt it in my heart.
And I had been thinking about it for a while and I needed that extra push to let me know, you know, you're doing the right thing.
This is not right.
This is not a good religion.
This is not something I want to raise my daughters in.
It's not something I want to be a part of forever.
And that's essentially what it was because, you know, the things you talked about I didn't necessarily know.
So once I was more informed and, you know, had the right questions to ask, I That was it for me.
That was what I needed.
God uses people in different ways.
I personally feel like you used your videos to give me the push I needed.
Well, thank you.
That's very kind of you.
I certainly won't go out and say, I am a tool of God!
I'm a guy who put on a wig and a unibrow.
But I appreciate it.
Well, let me ask you this.
So, timeline here.
You see, you started asking questions.
You separated from your husband.
Did the separation occur because of the questions that started coming?
Or was it before that?
Well, here's the thing.
When I decided, I didn't tell anybody.
And, you know, being...
In another state, having no family, no friends, nowhere to really turn, except his family.
They don't take kindly to people who convert and then convert back.
You know, that's not, they don't take kindly to that.
And I was really worried about a lot of backlash from them.
And I was worried about my kids, you know, because legally he could stop me from leaving the state.
And so I called my family, I explained to them what I, you know, That I wanted to leave.
I wanted to get out, but I was scared.
And they worked with me.
We, like, kind of made up this reason for me to have to come home for a while.
Okay.
And, you know, through God's hands, they accepted it, and they took it, and they said, okay, and they let me leave.
And so I packed up my kids, packed up our things, and left.
And this was in a matter of, like, two weeks.
And so once I got here, my brother's a lawyer, we were talking about what the next steps I can take.
Because, you know, we're only married Islamically.
But with my kids, you know, they don't like you taking their kids.
You know, that's a big thing.
Is that common?
Is that common in Islam where you only get married under the, I guess, Islamic law?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's very common.
Because that's how they have more than one wife.
Really?
Now, did your husband have more than one wife?
No, he wanted to at some time, but I fought him on it.
But yeah, he didn't have one, but he wanted to.
Wow.
So you don't hear about that a lot.
I wouldn't imagine it's that common in the United States for the most several wives.
Oh yeah, it is.
Really?
Oh yeah, I know tons of people who have four wives, three wives, two wives.
Some of them, they all live in the same house.
Wow, I didn't know that.
I will say, I will have to try and verify that, because I don't know for sure.
It's not legal marriages.
They're not legal.
They're through the mosque, and you do sign papers, Islamic papers, but they're not legal marriages.
But to them, they are.
To them, they're marriages through God.
So, to them, we were married.
Like, married-married.
Even though we weren't married on paper.
Wow.
Yeah.
That is fascinating.
Pretty common.
And you know, in Islam, you can't get legally married unless you get Islamically married first.
And Islamic marriage is so easy.
To just divorce from it, you just say divorce three times and you're done.
No, come on.
You actually say divorce three times?
Yeah, you say divorce, divorce, divorce, and you're divorced.
Are you pulling my leg here?
I swear.
I swear to you.
You're making it sound like the horror film.
You say Candyman in the mirror three times, and that guy with the Burger King Kids Club haircut appears.
Yeah, and to get Islamically married, the woman doesn't have to be present.
As long as she has a man there on her behalf, she doesn't have to be there.
And, like, when we got Islamically married, I didn't have to be there.
Like, it doesn't even involve me.
You don't even say anything.
Now, what about divorce, though?
What if you wanted a divorce and he didn't want to divorce?
Then he doesn't have to give it to me.
So you can't say divorce just three times?
No.
Only the man can.
Okay.
Now, did you know this when you were marrying him?
Yeah, I did.
I was very, very...
I was a fool.
I was.
I was a fool.
I asked myself that all the time.
What was I doing?
Like, I look back on it now like, God, I was so dumb.
I was.
No, I don't think so.
I really don't think so.
And that's not why I ask those questions.
I ask the questions because, listen, I can't really know this.
I can know on paper what the Koran says.
I can know Muhammad.
But learning these experiences, I mean, that's incredible.
I'd love to keep you on for another segment here because there's so much to get into.
So Codename Q, Islamic convert.
Be back after this.
We are back.
We were talking Islamic divorce.
Our guest, codenamed Q, has converted from Islam.
Honestly, it's one of those things where it sounds like something that I need to question, and I'll be honest, I'll have to go online afterward and search these things and say...
Okay, how accurate is this?
Because I know that the audience is going to say this is just anti-Islamic rhetoric.
I mean, or Osama Siblani.
We just did a piece on him out there in Dearborn, Michigan, who said that Pam Geller was worse than ISIS for drawing Muhammad.
And when I said that's absurd, they accused me of being Islamophobic.
So it seems like calling anyone, including terrorists, out on their actions is now Islamophobia.
Anyways, that was my own little diatribe.
My apologies.
Let's get back to you.
You're much more interesting.
So this divorce happens, so you find a reason to get out of state and get to your family.
Yeah.
And now that I'm here, I've been here for a month, and I was advised by lawyers to not do it yet, to not tell him and his family yet that I'm done, because I have to establish residency.
If I don't establish residency in the state, which is six months, then he can take me to court and they can force me to move back, especially...
Since I moved out technically on false pretenses.
How can they force you to move back?
Legally.
I was a resident there.
My kids were born there.
We were together there.
And I left.
He can legally go to the court and say, I didn't know she was leaving for good.
I didn't want my kids to leave.
And they can force me to move back.
Okay.
That sounds...
Even though you weren't legally married, he can do that?
Yeah.
Like, if we were just...
Even if we were just dating, and we had a child together, and I wanted to move out of state, we would have to go to court and have it legal saying he's okay with it.
And if he wanted to fight me on it, he could.
Wow.
And so, you know, having three small kids, and I do believe that we will have...
Eventually have a custody battle.
I'm just trying to, you know, do it as smart as I can and we all my options.
So, you know, as my brother's a lawyer, he told me just to wait six months here and then I'll have established residency.
Yeah.
And then, you know, I can tell them, you know, this is what's going on.
I don't want any part of it.
So I'm just trying to avoid right now.
Right, and obviously we're doing our best to make sure that no personal details are revealed here.
Let me ask you this, because you were very adamant before we did the interview, like, no, I don't want any visual, and I don't want people to know the name.
What is your, honestly, no sensationalism, what's your fear if people find out that it's you and find out that you've converted and left?
I'm scared for my kids.
I am.
You know, I know a girl who her husband, here in America, here in Michigan, took her child from her to Lebanon and she's never seen them again.
I'm scared for my kids.
I'm scared for a custody battle.
I'm scared for them to take me to court and make me move back and then, you know, God knows what could happen.
Listen, this is, people can say, oh, you know, anyone is bad people.
You know, you can be any guy that is abusive or, you know, any guy that can turn on you.
But when it comes to Muslims, there is almost every time that they're abusive or they're, you know, they try to hurt you or backlash, ruin your reputation, you know, take your kids from you.
It's not an uncommon thing.
It's more common than people think it is.
And with Muslims, when you're leaving Islam, specifically, because that's a really big deal, you really have to be careful.
You never know what they're capable of.
You never know.
You just never know.
And especially having kids, like, it was just me, whatever.
They can do what they want to me, but because I have three small kids, I really want to make sure that, you know, I do everything right, legally, That they can't come after my kids, that they can't fight me for my kids, that they, you know, can't hurt them, essentially.
So when we hear the media and people talk about, you know, the moderate Islamic majority in this country, they're lumping people like your husband, former husband, in that category.
Yeah, they're moderate Muslims.
They're not extreme Muslims.
This is the face of moderate Islam.
But even moderate Muslims.
You know, you never know.
And that's what's scary.
And the thing is, like, people say, like, oh, not all Muslims will go bomb somebody.
Not all Muslims will go shoot something up.
That's extreme.
That's true.
But when you think about it, to them, when they use their bodies for Allah, when they do something on behalf of Allah and they die in the process, to them, that's a straight...
You know, there's no judgment, there's no nothing, your argument is set to heaven because you use your body for the sake of Allah and, you know, His army.
Now, in Islam, there's never a specific thing that says that, you know, there's no grace, there's no forgiveness, there's no forgiveness, there's no love.
All it is is outweighing your good deeds with your bad, you know?
You have enough charity.
You sin here.
To them, God weighs out your deeds with your bad.
And would your conversion be considered one of the worst deeds to them?
Leading Islam?
Yeah.
That's as bad.
So when you think about that, there's no guarantee of heaven.
But if you use your body for Allah or you fight for the sake of Allah or Muhammad or Islam, that's a straight shot to heaven.
Now if you really think about that, that's scary.
And their mindset Well, let me ask you this.
Let me ask you this, because I want to kind of stay on your personal story.
So while you talk about that, you know, and you'll have theologians, they'll debate that on either side, and both sides have valid points.
But in your case, while you were married, okay, so you're Muslim, you're married to a Muslim husband.
Yeah.
Did you ever talk about these things, like about terrorism, about jihad?
All the time.
And where did he line up on that?
Where did his family line up?
Oh, they were...
You could never say anything bad about ISIS. Al-Qaeda.
And that's the thing that usually always got me.
Even though I was, you know, converted, I was still a big-time American.
You know, Republican and all that.
Like, that never changed.
Well, outside of the Islam thing, outside of the Islam thing, they tend to be pretty conservative, right?
They tend to be pro-life.
Right, they do.
They are.
But I remember asking them...
You know, when ISIS beheaded all the Christians and I was sitting in his mom's living room with the whole family and I purposely said, what do you guys think about that?
And immediately everybody said, well, they did it to them first.
They came on their land first.
They attacked them.
ISIS is defending themselves.
They are just defending against America and they come in their countries and kill the civilians and the children and they're defending themselves.
Don't they have a right to do that?
And I was like, really?
Like, you're seriously sitting here defending ISIS to me?
And they were like, well, no, we think what they do is wrong, but they're defending themselves.
Everybody can't hate them, and this, this, and that.
And I was sitting there like, wow, really?
Like, they just beheaded all these Christians, and you don't see anything wrong with it.
You know, and that's most Muslims.
And I even have Muslim neighbors who, if you ask them, They'll say, well, America's just trying to take their oil, and America came in their country first, and America's killing no people, and they have a right to defend themselves.
I'll tell you what, and I hope you're ready for it, Q. There's going to be backlash to this, and people are just going to say that you're Islamophobic and you're lying, but I will tell you this.
I can't verify what you said if that's true, because I would imagine when polled, most of them would do an about-face, and Eddie Haskell it, and, you look great, Mrs.
Cleaver, and then turn around and say something else.
But I will say this.
I watched 9-11 happen when I was in Canada, and There were Muslims who were not unhappy with it.
I watched that happen.
And most people don't believe me when I say that.
They don't believe me.
They think I'm just saying.
So I watched that happen.
And a lot of these people, they hated Israel and the Jews hated it.
This is where I was raised.
Again, it was multiculturalism.
It wasn't the United States.
So, I mean, I was actually banned from a college for doing some bits about Muslims at a multicultural fair, which are nowhere near as extreme as the videos that I've done now.
So that's what shaped my view as an outsider.
So it's interesting to hear that this shaped your view as an insider.
It's almost like I don't know We're going to have to have you back on the program because I want to hear your progress.
And if you do run into some hiccups, I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who would love to help you.
I do have kind of one question for you.
So you're obviously very afraid to discuss your conversion right now for fear of safety of your children and reasons you mentioned.
When you left Christianity for Islam or you left what you were raised with, did you have that same fear?
No, not at all.
I mean, I was worried about my family being mad at me, but no.
Okay.
Not at all.
And that's the thing with Islam is, you know, looking back on it and having been a part of both religions.
And don't get me wrong, I love, you know, Muslim people.
You know, there's some really great ones out there.
And, you know, 90% of my friends are Muslim.
I'm just saying, from my point of view, you never know what they're capable of, because it's hardwired into them from their religion, you know, to carry out these acts that are unthinkable to us, but to them they're not that big of a deal.
Right.
And with Christianity, you get the sense of love and forgiveness and grace when you walk into a church.
You feel it immediately.
And it's different with Islam when you do the Muslim prayers and When you go into a mosque, there's no sense of God's presence.
There's no sense of love.
There's not that warm, fuzzy feeling you get, you know, when you're in a church or, you know, It's just non-existent.
Even to atheists who are listening here, it is important for them, because they're going to say the warm, fuzzy feeling.
Well, even if you don't believe in God, the warm, fuzzy feeling, you could explain away as the atmosphere because of the people in the congregation.
They're giving you the warm, fuzzy feeling.
So either way, you're describing two different auras.
Yeah.
Of the religion, you know?
Sure.
I can imagine.
I can...
Well, geez.
Well, listen.
We will keep you in our prayers.
We'll definitely...
Will you come back on the program and give us an update?
Okay.
Well, great.
We absolutely want you to.
And if we need to put a distortion on your voice here so you sound like one of those 420...
Macaulay Culkin and the Talkboy.
We'll do it.
But thank you so much, Q, for coming on.
Okay.
Thank you.
Fascinating stuff.
Ladder with Crowder.
We'll be more after this break.
Wow.
There you go, the least funny interview we've ever done on here, but it's important.
So we please ask that you go to louderwithcrowder.com, check out the sources and ways to help with women in a situation similar to Q. Also, subscribe by clicking my face.
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