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Feb. 7, 2015 - Louder with Crowder
37:24
Chael Sonnen "GSP the GOAT" and more... || Louder With Crowder
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I am thrilled to have this guest here on today.
He's been on the show before, but good man, podcaster extraordinaire, UFC megastar, now a commentator for ESPN, and soon-to-be father, Chael Sonnen.
Thank you for joining the show, sir.
I wouldn't miss it, buddy.
How are you?
I am doing well, and so are you, it seems.
Are you happy right now?
You've gone through some life transitions.
You know, you retired from fighting.
You're going to be a dad.
You've switched over to ESPN. Are you happy?
You know, I'm definitely largely happy all the time, but another characteristic that I would describe myself as is tired.
I'm very fatigued, and you talk about the ESPN on East Coast versus West Coast.
With the travel, I'm constantly in different time changes, and I just find myself to be tired.
I wish I could have a little bit more sleep.
Well, why don't you just take a sip of that coffee and get some product placement going?
I'm holding one right now.
I was trying not to since we were on your show, but I might have to sneak a sip in or two here.
Yeah, you know, nobody cares.
You could pull a Jon Jones and pull out a line there and no one would even judge you for it.
So, before we get into, obviously, the PEDs that are in sports, and for the audience out there who might not necessarily be familiar with you, you are a UFC megastar, one of the biggest draws ever, a sports commentator, but a lot of people don't realize you've also been outspoken as a conservative and ran for office.
How big...
How big of a defining factor is your worldview, you know, your faith and your politics for Chael P. Sonnen?
Well, I mean, that's just who I am.
I think anybody that would answer that, you know, what do you believe in and what are your principles?
I mean, that is who you are.
So, you know, I'm a Catholic by religion.
I'm a conservative by choice.
I don't apologize for either.
And one thing that I am proud about, though, Stephen, is I have reasons for believing what I believe.
When When I was young, you kind of grew up and just believed whatever you were told, whether that was about the monster in the closet or whatever it may be.
But as I got a little bit older, I did my own research and I'm comfortable with the decisions that I've made.
I don't fault anybody that has a different opinion than me, but I would encourage people to at least do a little research.
Don't just always go off of what you were told in school or even what you were told by your parents.
Look into something and figure out what you believe.
You're a gentleman because, see, I do fault anyone who has an opinion different than my own.
You are going to be a father, right?
How far along is your missus now?
Yeah, you know, I consider myself a father already.
The baby, unfortunately, isn't here yet.
I can't wait for the little monster to arrive.
But the lovely Miss Brittany is exactly five months and one week.
And I always get confused because these pregnancy things go in weeks.
26 weeks, and then somebody's got to get out his calculator and do some shorthand.
Five months and one week, so about another four months to go.
And, Knight, we were just talking about yesterday, before we got you here on the program, how you looked at the ultrasound.
And you said something, you may not remember, but firstly, how impactful was that for you to look at, you know, a beating heart and seeing that for the first time as a first-time dad?
It's such a cool process, and it's a little bit annoying for anybody that hasn't been through it.
This is my first time, and I can tell you it's always kind of annoying.
Somebody's telling you about it or however, but they'll also tell you when you go through it, you'll know what we mean, and it really is true.
Ultrasound technology, Stephen, has been around for a long time, but this is my first time.
I don't know about it.
I've never been in the room and seen him do it and see the baby move and open his hand and just do all these things and be a little person, so...
I mean, it's a cool experience.
It's emotional.
It's life-changing.
It's all those things that you hear.
I'm not immune to any of it.
Well, let me ask you this.
A lot of people have said this, and you obviously already were.
Has it made you more pro-life?
Has it reinforced your view there?
Yeah, it absolutely has.
You know, I was pro-life to start with.
But here's the argument on pro-life.
You either argue that it's a child or it's not.
If it is a life, then we all understand you must protect it.
But when you end up in a debate with somebody with a different opinion, that's the stance they take.
They'll always say, well, it's not a life.
If you ever have an ultrasound, it really defeats that argument.
It's very clearly a life.
It's moving and kicking.
They'll show you right there.
There's the lungs.
There's the heart.
There's his ears.
There's no way around that.
If you go through an ultrasound process and you actually see it, because there's people, you'll hear the term ignorant.
He's ignorant on any topic.
The reality is, yes, people are sometimes, yeah, we don't know until we know.
We shouldn't insult somebody for not knowing.
Take the time and tell them and teach them something.
But if you go through an ultrasound and you come away and say that's not a life, that's just a silly thing to say.
For sure it is.
Yeah, well, if you come across, you know, quotes from Elizabeth Warren or Wendy Davis, they want to not only be able to end the life a couple of weeks up, but after that ultrasound that you've even seen.
I mean, that's what's so crazy.
We're not just talking about, even though it wouldn't make it right, you know, we're not just talking about a little blob of cells.
We're talking about, like, what you said, you know, fingernails and even a personality.
I'm sure, now, has Brittany noticed a personality with this baby yet?
Is it a little more antsy?
Is it relaxed, kicking a lot?
You know, he kicks a lot in the morning and the night, and she likes to tell me he's kicking, and I tell her to change her verbiage that we're going to say he's practicing.
He likes to do two-a-days, and he's training in the morning and he's training in the evening.
So, you know, she'll do that sometimes.
She'll come up and grab my hand and put it on her stomach and say, he's practicing.
Would you want your boy to be a professional fighter, following your footsteps, or would you discourage him from that?
No, I would love it if he got into something like that, but whatever he wants to do is fine with me.
He's not going to be forced into anything, but I think sports are important on any level.
Here's the one thing I don't like for young men.
You've got one minute.
The biggest problem for young men, Stephen, in our society, period, race, any socioeconomic, doesn't matter.
The biggest problem that young men have is free time.
We cannot let a kid come home from school and have nothing to do for seven hours until bedtime.
We've got to occupy their minds and their bodies somehow.
Yeah, and I would even argue that the best person to help fill that free time, of course, would also be a father.
We have a really big problem with fatherless homes in the country, whether just a completely absent father or a father who refused to put a ring on mommy's finger so he can hit the nightclubs and bump a line.
You're right.
A lot of free time is a problem.
And you coach, right?
You coach out there in Oregon.
We've got to go to a break here, but you coach kids and help a lot of impoverished youth.
Yeah, that's right.
I coach a kid's wrestling team, which, you know, to speak to the Empire, it's not a rich man's sport.
But we do two things.
One, we teach them a skill, and two, we send them home tired.
Well, very nice.
And we'll be back to talk about PEDs in sports, the top of the news, a lot of the crowd.
Stay tuned.
UFC superstar, ESPN commentator, podcaster extraordinaire, Chael P. Sonnen, thank you for being here, sir.
Wouldn't miss it, brother.
How are you?
I am doing well.
We were just talking about before the break our back problems, so that's always an issue.
But aside from that, it's a day above ground.
It's a big pain sometimes to sit too long, but we will manage through.
Do you have actual disc issues in your back from fighting for so many years?
You know, I don't have any disc issues, but I was in a wreck.
I was sitting in traffic a number of years ago, and I got rear-ended by a fully loaded gravel truck with a fully loaded trailer.
I was the first one to hit it and mounted into a five-car pileup.
I hit the guy in front of me, hit the car, you know, the domino effect.
And it's just kind of always been a little bit off since then.
Yeah, a little bit off will happen with a truck full of concrete going into you.
You're fortunate.
I saw it coming at me, too.
I was at an absolute stop, and I saw it in my rear view.
I'm just going, uh-oh, boom, got hit.
Geez.
Well, hopefully you recover.
Yeah, I've got a couple of herniated discs and all that.
That's the problem.
You know, the thing is, obviously I'm not a pro athlete, but I've done grappling, submission wrestling for years, you know.
And it's a great sport to take part in.
It does keep you active.
It gives you something to get up for.
But it does not lend itself to longevity.
It really doesn't.
Especially at, you know, what are you, walking around 220?
It's about what I am.
It's a different game than a featherweight.
You're right.
You're right.
And, you know, it seems like with each year, it's almost to the day of my birthday, three more pounds, three more pounds.
And three pounds may not sound like a lot, but the years go quickly and it adds up.
And if you're talking about back pain, weight matters.
Yeah, well, LeBron just lost a few pounds, I think, 20 or so, because he said that he didn't like the impact from the joints, and he's only playing a girly sport like basketball, so I can imagine when you're actually in there fighting a guy.
Well, there it is, right there.
Yeah, you had a little tiff with LeBron not long ago, I remember, but then you said he made up for it.
We made up for it.
He made it right, and I accept his apology.
What was it that he said?
Didn't he say something to your missus?
Well, to initiate the whole thing, yes, but for the apology, if you want to call it that, it was actually...
He helped out a friend of mine that he had no idea was a friend.
A completely random act of kindness that he did for somebody in Las Vegas.
He was a very good friend of mine named Paige, and...
They say it's the thought that counts.
He actually tried to help her out with a room key because she had lost her ID. And he went as far as to offer three bribes to the front desk, put the cash down and everything.
The bribes were rejected.
She never got the room key, but it's back to the thought that counts.
And for his good heart, he's forgiven.
Okay.
So we're not going to get into what he actually said to get you angry in the first place.
We are not.
We are not.
What do you make of that?
There's a lot of speculation going on.
What was your initial reaction when you heard it?
Well, just to put it in perspective for everybody that maybe doesn't follow the news on Anderson as you're speaking of, but we're about 12 hours into this whole thing.
So my opinion and your opinion, we need to reserve the right to change our opinion when we're confronted with We're good to go.
Connected to his body was his skin.
And as graphic as that sounds, it's very relevant to this.
Now, Anderson has an obligation, a moral obligation to himself to put his health first.
He needs to do whatever he can to repair that leg.
I think we can all stipulate to that, whether it's free market or black market.
If it helps his leg, even if he's got a lean on side, it's good for him.
However, the second part of it is sport.
There are rules within the sport and they have to be followed no matter what.
It's real black and white.
And you don't often get to come to the table and go, well, yeah, but there is a reason for that.
You don't get to do that.
It sounds as though he took something that's banned.
It sounds as though it's an illegal steroid and he's going to have to answer for that.
So it's a little bit of a two-part thing.
Well, hold on.
One second.
Go ahead.
Because you just mentioned something that you and I have talked about.
I've heard you mention before a lot of people don't understand, right?
And we'll get into the fact, because a lot of people will say, well, Chiel can't compliment on us, he's a hypocrite, and we'll get into that.
But difference between a banned substance and an illegal steroid.
What he was taking, to the best of my understanding, at least one of those substances, was an illegal steroid.
Am I right, wrong, and what's the difference?
According to what he's accused of, yes, he had, I believe it was two things in his system.
I believe they are both illegal steroids, to my understanding.
In America, he came from South America.
Again, there could be some conversation on laws there, but by our standards and my understanding, yes, that's correct.
Well, over there, it's, you know, I got some back pain, here's some steroids in Brazil.
It is a little bit more free reign.
That's a true statement.
I don't actually know what the specific laws on this are, but it is true that their regular bodies are a lot looser than ours.
Well, both in the literal and the figurative sense.
I've trained with enough Brazilians to see them coming in with six-packs and veins, reptilian, year-round, so they can walk, you know, Coco Cabana and a Speedo.
They're not even the guys who aren't athletes.
Chael is a commentator at ESPN. He has to reserve judgment.
But I'll do it.
I'll indict an entire nation of people as steroid users.
So listen, a lot of people will say, okay, well, Chael, this is hypocritical because you left the sport under a cloud, right?
You tested positive for banned substances.
What do you say to those people?
I know you veered right into this, right?
You said that's the only way to handle it.
But the substances that you had taken, testosterone, you were cleared, you were under a doctor, and then it was banned, right?
And then you tested positive for other substances.
Did you only take those to get off TRT? Or had you been on those for a longer amount of time?
And were those illegal steroids or just banned substances?
Well, I've never taken any illegal steroids or even been accused of that.
Everything I took was accurate.
I was never falsely accused.
I took everything that they suggested I took.
And frankly, more over the years.
I don't even know.
If I ever went to my doctor, my litmus test has never been to cross-reference that advice with an athletic commission.
If my doctor prescribed it to me, that was it.
And I slept fine at night.
I never even had a bad conscience about it.
But that doesn't mean it wasn't against the rules.
And that is a confusion.
You'll hear the term, somebody took an illegal...
What most people will believe is you're talking about illegal by the law standards.
No.
Illegal can be perfectly legal.
It just can be against the rules of the sport.
And each commission can set up their own rules.
So keeping track of it can be very complicated.
Now that wasn't what happened in my case.
In my case, I knew full well I couldn't take it.
I just thought I could have both sides of it.
I can make myself feel better and I can compete.
I can get out of my system on time.
That's a flawed logic and I'm not arguing that.
I'm just speaking to the point that guys do get confused in it.
A reasonable person is going to believe if it's legal, I'm allowed to take it.
They're also going to believe if it's illegal, I can't take it.
And what we're finding out through this process is that's not true either.
There's some absolutely imprisonable criminal substances That oddly are allowed, per the sport, with some of these athletic commissions, and there's also perfectly legal things over the counter as minor as Tylenol, where people have lost Olympic gold medals over.
Right, that's true.
Even caffeine, I understand, by the Olympic Committee, there's a limit, and I think it's about two cups of coffee, right, is considered a banned substance, anything more than that.
That's right.
I believe the way I heard it was two shots of espresso, but coffee would also be a fair statement.
Oh my gosh.
Two shots of espresso.
You have a venti at Starbucks.
You're pissing hot.
Which I do every morning.
I'm at the coffeehouse.
I'm holding it right now as we're doing this interview.
I'm at the coffeehouse every morning at 6 a.m.
when they open up.
The good news on caffeine is it gets out of your system in about 15 minutes.
I don't think I've ever heard or any of your viewers have heard of somebody testing positive.
However...
If a random test were to come within that 15-minute window, they could have their license pulled over caffeine.
That's an accurate statement.
Straight up, does it still bother you at all?
What the things people say or when you left the sport and that controversy happened?
Yeah, you know, I never felt good about it.
Here's one thing that happens is human nature.
Whenever you're in the hot spot, whenever you're caught in some red tape and you're wrong...
Yeah.
You feel it.
There's also a relief to being accurately accused.
The guys I feel bad for are the guys that are falsely accused.
I wasn't in that spot, man.
I was guilty.
And it brought me shame.
Whenever you have shame, it's very hard to come clean.
Even when you want to come clean, there's an internal battle that goes on, and it takes a little bit to get there.
To bring it back to the Anderson situation, If he took these substances, again, he not only has a right to take it, he's got an obligation to himself, if it's about curing his life.
Well, if he's not in professional sports where he's whacking on some other guy, obviously, is what people will say.
But that's the second side.
You've got to put health comes first, sport comes second, or sport comes way down the list.
But health certainly comes first.
He has the right and even an obligation to cure himself.
And if he's got to lean on science for that, good for science.
Good for the guys that discovered it.
But, hold on, I do want to finish this thought.
That doesn't mean he can blend it with sport.
I'm not arguing that he should be able to.
Well, no, and that's a good point.
And that's his situation.
Yeah, I understand that.
Well, let me ask you this.
The substance that he tested positive, first off, complete speculation.
I am aware of this, but I'm asking for your opinion.
Do you think Anderson was on something when you fought him?
I can tell you...
I can tell you on the substance issues, the rules get very blurred, and I'll tell you why.
They have something now called out-of-competition testing.
The rule used to be, and the rule when I started and came through, and one of the problems I had was not adapting to the changes, but it used to just be in competition, meaning what's in your system on fight night?
Time mattered.
If you were to come in and go, hey, listen, I got to tell you guys, when I was in high school, I did, and then fill in the blank.
They go, oh, we don't care.
You go, well, bad news.
When I was in college, I did it again.
They go, oh, we don't care.
So right off the bat, you understand time does matter.
There is a time period of which all is forgiven.
The confusion has come in, what is that time period?
And I accept that these are the rules and we must operate within them.
I do believe there's a conversation to be had that you can't just ban all medication from a person.
A person does not have between health and sport.
I hate to do this, but the question was, do you believe, do you think, if someone holds a gun to your head, do you think Anderson had used before?
Or do you think this was a one-time deal?
When you fought him, do you think he was on something?
If you have to guess.
But I can't answer with a yes or no, Stephen, because here's why.
Here's why.
If you're saying that a guy never took a banned substance in his life, that's a silly statement, particularly in the context that you and I just established, that Tylenol, caffeine, IV – these things are all banned substances.
But what about these substances that he was taking?
I really don't know, man.
I can tell you this on Anderson Silva – The human body doesn't get better with age.
That's the reality.
We start to decline as humans and particularly as athletes right around 25 years old.
If you're real lucky, you might push that to 27 or 28.
The good news is science and medicine have come along and decided the world does not belong to 18 to 25 year olds, but that you can extend your career beyond that.
So if you're asking me if he took something, there's two tests that you take, Stephen.
The first test is not The urine drug test.
The first test is the visual.
When a guy takes his t-shirt off and gets into the ring or steps on the scale, you look at him.
If a guy got better with time, you can't do that on your own.
Anderson Silva's body doesn't appear to have changed at all.
So a reasonable person would conclude that whatever he was on now, he was on before, but there's no evidence to support that.
No, I get it.
It's entirely speculation, and that's why I tried to preface it with that, to be fair, as opposed to the people on the gotcha stations who were like, It was facts!
Chael said he fought Anderson on PEDs!
Listen, we're going to go to a break here, and we will be right back, because I want to continue down this line and even take it to Jon Jones.
Back with Chael Sonnen.
We were talking before the break about PEDs in sports.
Anderson Silva is obviously breaking news.
So we speculated a little bit there.
I certainly did.
One thing I will say, having read up on the drugs that Anderson did use, you know, one of those substances, if you look at it, actually one of its symptoms, one of the side effects, is that it can cause overcalcification.
It can actually cause bones to become weaker and more prone to breaking.
Did you know that?
No, I hadn't heard that.
And that's where you have all of the people speculating.
And again, it is speculation.
You have a bunch of mouth breathers who've never hit an armbar in their life on Sure Dog acting like they're now medical experts or biochemists.
But that is an actual side effect of that one drug that he had taken, which sort of makes it interesting.
I know, listen, you hate to ever drag someone's name through the mud.
Obviously, you've had some things happen, but it is a little bit fun as the news unfolds, let's be honest.
I'll tell you this about myself.
I was asked that too.
As soon as you test positive for something, people will want to say it was over your whole career.
And my response is that's fair.
That's a fair statement.
If you get hit with something, it runs you all the way back in time.
Right.
The reality is, as science and medicine change, you're constantly taking new things.
Are they within the rules or not?
I think that's all a good question.
Nobody's totally clear on what these rules are.
I don't think you or I knew, prior to Anderson testing positive, how to pronounce these substances, let alone were they allowed or not.
So you kind of learn as you go, but I do think that's a fair statement.
I don't think it helps a guy to ever come out and go, no, no, no, this was a one time, or man, they just caught me out of bed.
Call it what it is, man.
You took it, you got caught at the end.
And that's what happened.
We'll see how Anderson handles it, but I think when somebody, at least for me, when somebody tried to say things, even if it wasn't accurate, I think I still deserve it.
If you test positive and somebody wants to run that back all the way to when I started my career at nine years old, I don't think that guy's wrong.
Everything you just said, my takeaway was, Shale's son knows how to use you or I properly.
Good use of grammar there.
A lot of people would have gone with the you and me, but that was appropriate.
Fun Dip, the producer, he's out right now, who's on the show.
He will constantly correct my grammar.
There is a very simple rule on how to follow that.
My mother was a school teacher, so I know that rule, but a lot of people don't.
So very good.
I appreciate you picking it up.
You want to know one that bothers me?
When somebody says, I could care less.
Oh, I hate that.
If you could care less, that means you're not at the bottom of your care scale.
That means you have room to care.
It's, I couldn't, I could not care less.
I'm at the bottom of the pit on caring.
Right.
The worst for me, I think that any man who goes about with the word irregardless on his lips deserve to be roasted with his own Thanksgiving turkey.
Over-exaggerate.
Right.
It's redundant.
There's no need to.
Guestimate.
Right.
All grammatical infractions far worse than steroid use.
Mind you instead of remind you.
I didn't really even think of that one.
That one's an annoying one.
It is.
Well, I'm learning.
I'm learning.
See, we always learn.
And as the ratings of our show are going down, people are turning the channel, let's go back to steroids.
Let's bring it back up.
Well, not even just steroids, right?
Okay, really quickly, because we don't want to spend too much time on the technical side of it.
John Jones tested positive for cocaine.
That was a big deal.
You fought Jon Jones.
You hosted a reality show against Jon Jones.
So we know that, but I do want to get to this because a lot of the conspiracy theorists, again online, say that you knew that and you tweeted out, Jon, if you keep telling lies about me, I'm going to start telling the truth about you.
And at the weigh-ins, when usually people rehydrate themselves with Pedialyte or Gatorade or something like that, you were drinking a can of Coke, looking him straight in the face.
How long have you or let's say people in the sport known about this?
There are rumors circulating that people have known for a long time this guy's been a fan of Colombian gold.
I would tell you this.
Gatorade is for suckers.
Pedialyte is for babies.
And Coca-Cola is for gangsters.
And there was absolutely no correlation other than Coca-Cola had sponsored me and it tastes delicious.
That's the famous Arnold line in Pumping Iron.
Milk is for papis.
It is.
Well, that's not a fair statement.
Milk will keep your bones strong.
Milk's a good thing.
Make sure you're drinking your milk.
But I don't know why a grown man would drink Pedialyte.
It tastes terrible, and it's for babies.
There's an infant on the bottle.
There's like a four-year-old baby on the bottle of Pedialyte, and I see these grown men sipping it.
It's just weird.
Well, you have to see something, though, here, Chael.
I mean, I love you, but I have to point out some inconsistency with you're there drinking a Coke.
Right next to your dietician, Mike Dolce, who basically says you might as well be giving yourself cancer.
What does he do when you do that?
Or is he not as stringent behind the scenes?
Is he a little more relaxed?
He was so mad, Stephen.
He was so mad about that.
And he told me ahead of time that that was going to make him mad.
I didn't take him as sincere.
I thought it was like a joke, mad, you know, elbow up, wink, wink.
We had dinner after that.
He didn't come to dinner.
He was so upset with me.
He said, well, if you don't want to listen to me, there's no point in me being here.
I didn't understand that he would care that much.
However, now this is true.
Forget the sponsorship.
Real talk real quick.
Coca-Cola is one of the most...
An ice cold Coca-Cola.
I could swim in it, Stephen.
I could jump in a pool of Coca-Cola and be so happy.
I want to put into context, I was 17 pounds overweight 22 hours before I made the weight.
So I lost 17 pounds in 22 hours to explain to you my level of thirst and dehydration.
I couldn't speak because my mouth didn't have any saliva.
I was that dehydrated.
Imagine how good an ice-cold Coca-Cola tasted right there.
There's one shot in your life to enjoy a Coca-Cola that much, and I had passed it up.
My previous fight was also a title fight with Anderson Silva.
Dolce took my Coca-Cola away.
I literally resented him for it for an entire year until I had that weigh-in again.
I said, man, I can't do it.
I gotta have a pop.
There you go.
Gotta have a pop.
You know, I always wondered in the Pacific Northwest if you guys said soda or pop, and you just answered my question.
Back to Jon Jones' version of Coca-Cola.
Yeah, I know.
Hilarious segue.
Well done, my friend.
I'm very clever.
Yeah, he likes the cocaine.
Listen, here's my deal with Jon Jones.
I would love him to be on the show.
I don't think, you know, I don't think he knows me from the Tom, Dick, or Harry down the street.
But...
You know, when you go out with the Bible versus tattooed on you, and you go out and you talk about wanting to be a role model and saying, you know, I'm never going to be caught with a DUI, and then you test positive for cocaine.
Now, cocaine, again, there's the differentiation between in-competition and out-of-competition, whereas, you know, Nick Diaz tested positive for pot.
Could have been fighting blitzed, for all we know.
Very skilled, those Diaz brothers.
With Jon Jones...
What's the real deal with him?
Who is the real Jon Jones?
That's a speculation.
He's lost a lot of fans.
And how rampant is not just PEDs, how rampant are drugs in sports?
Is it more common than we think?
I think for marijuana it is.
Cocaine's a weird one for me.
I'm from Portland, Oregon.
I've never...
Not only have I never put my eyes on coke, I've never been offered it or around somebody that's like, hey man, I just dig...
That's...
For us in Oregon, that's a Hollywood thing.
We only see cocaine in the movies.
We only picture it and it's...
Everything that you see in Hollywood is what my vision of cocaine is.
However, we're known here in Oregon for having good marijuana.
I don't understand the marijuana argument.
I resist it fully.
The laws are changing and evolving, and I'm just going to have to say fine to that.
But to your point, I don't know that drugs are very rampant.
I know when you speak of John Jones, look, he's a young guy that stumbled into an enormous amount of success.
He was a college dropout.
I don't mean that as a slide to him.
I mean that as more of a compliment and a guy that still stuck with some goals and was able to turn it around.
But he was caught in that period of time where you're going out and you're having fun and you're doing these types of things.
And one thing about an athlete, Stephen, one of the dark sides of an athlete is you never have to grow up.
You've got to continue to be in the locker room.
Sports are a game.
And you can talk about him being a professional all you want.
Sports are for children and they're a game.
And a very select few people get to continue that into adult life.
But it largely doesn't propel them to professionalism.
It does just the opposite.
It just kind of allows you to stay a kid longer.
And I think John's having some growing pains that are getting caught in front of the world.
And it's embarrassing.
But the good news, and there really is, no spin here, that the real good news is he got caught, man.
If you're hooked on cocaine, I think we can both agree you don't want to be.
Yeah, well, listen, I've spent a lot of time in the media and entertainment industry, so it's not as foreign to me as it is to you.
I've never touched it, but as a matter of fact, I've moved.
I've moved cities because of how rampant cocaine was in industries that would surprise people to get away from it.
That being said, I mean, the big criticism is the kid is fake about it.
He went into rehab for half a day.
Do you really think...
I'd like to see someone learn, because he's possibly the best...
Okay, listen.
This is funny.
This is not right.
This is very wrong, but to pretend this isn't funny...
He checked into rehab, he signed in, and he signed his ass right back out.
They can't force you to stay in rehab.
They also can't disclose when you leave.
There's absolute anonymity reasons to go in.
So when he wants to make a statement and go, hey, I checked into rehab, he never said I stayed in rehab.
He never said I completed rehab.
That might possibly be...
The funniest thing that he's ever done.
I'm not saying appropriate.
I'm not giving this a pass.
I'm not weighing judgment at all.
But that may be the single most humorous thing.
I mean, that's straight out of a movie.
The dude checked in, signed his sheet, and walked back to the Bentley and drove home.
That's a gangster move.
Any way you look at it, that's what that is.
It's not his Bentley.
If you're talking about that picture, he said it wasn't his Bentley.
So how dare you bring your incorrect facts to Lotta with Crowder, sir?
It's just a funny story, man.
And the thing with Jon Jones, and a lot of times with Jon Jones, it's like anybody else, all you do is talk about the bad.
I don't mean to build a guy up that just went through.
I'm not giving a pass for any of that, but I was around him day and night on a reality show, seven days a week.
We spent holidays together.
It fell over one Halloween, which I know isn't a holiday, but it's a big day if you have kids.
You don't get to see them dressed up at home.
We also spent Thanksgiving together.
We literally sat down.
John and I cut the turkey and scooped up the potatoes for everybody.
The point I'm trying to make, I really got to know him and he was an excellent guy.
He was nice to people.
He took time.
He was generous.
He was gracious.
He also liked to go out at night.
I understand there's two sides of him, but I do want to make sure the whole story gets told.
If he was here right now, he would make you laugh.
He's a fun guy, and I think he needs to mature a little bit.
I'll finish with this thought on Jon Jones.
To your point about him being fake, and he does get called that, there's some truth to that.
He has an image of who he wants to be, but he's not that guy.
I think we can all relate to that.
We all want to be somebody, and sometimes we fall a little short.
Right.
He deals with criticism because he's in the media.
He's got certain sponsors and brands, and he believes he needs to portray a certain image.
I believe not only on a personal level would he somehow be relieved and kind of out of the closet, if you will, but I also believe on a professional level sales would do better if he just came out and said, look, I party all night, I barely ever go to the gym, and I'll whip anybody's ass that wants to step in that cage with me.
All three of those statements are true, and they would also make him endearing.
Yeah, I don't know about that.
I mean, you look at like George St.
Pierre.
And here's one thing I will say that bothers me.
And I don't say this to insult you because obviously you fought Anderson.
But everyone's saying he's without a doubt the greatest of all time.
Not only as a Montrealer, but George St.
Pierre, when you and I had this conversation, remember, at your place in Oregon with McDanger Waffles was sitting right there.
That's a good dog right there.
That is a good dog.
I've got my dog here, Hopper, in here.
He's actually like Ronda Rousey's dog, a doggo Argentino.
Big, incredible athlete.
If you could put him in a human, he would be like John Jones turned up to 11.
He's a crazy dog.
That's awesome.
Super sweet.
On the other hand, Stephen, my dog is 0-7 in street fights, 6 against cats.
I'm not joking.
6 against cats and 1 against a horse.
But he's very sweet.
He means well.
He does mean well.
My dog hates horses.
I don't even remember what my point is.
We started talking about dogs.
We're talking about George St.
Pierre.
Oh, okay, yes.
A phrase you said.
I remember right as we were prepping to shoot this video on legalizing MMA in New York, and we have to go in a minute and a half, you said, I've never seen an athlete like that in my life, and I know many Olympic medalists.
Now, in retrospect, looking at everyone's career, don't you think someone could argue that the guy who left undefeated, never tested hot, was a great ambassador to the sport, highest pay-per-view draw, wouldn't you have to give it to St.
Pierre at this point until maybe Jones passes him by?
I don't think there is any argument.
It definitely goes to George St.
Pierre.
And George St.
Pierre was ranked number one in the world, pound for pound.
There was a press conference done, and they said, no, Anderson's the best, and our president, Dana White, made this whole argument, and that is his opinion.
But the entire media then shifted.
They dropped George from one to two.
They left Anderson from four to one.
Anderson's a fantastic fighter.
This isn't a commentary on him, but if you want to talk about the greats, I fought Anderson twice.
I've worked out with St.
Pierre.
I'm just calling it like it is.
It's George.
Okay, final thought here.
If you were to have fought George St.
Pierre, both of you and your prime, how do you think that would have gone?
Because he's a lot smaller than you.
Do you think it would have been close?
Well, I'll tell you this.
I worked out with George St.
Pierre, and it was competitive and close, but George got the best of me.
He was as strong as an ox.
It was shocking to feel his grip.
I remember when he would grab ahold of me, it was like being caught in a vice grip.
He was also a lot quicker than me because of that size factor, and it was enough to upset me.
I remember driving home in my car that night thinking, I need to get my hands on this guy again.
I can beat him.
I can beat him.
But if you want the reality of our one private workout that only Kenny Florian was witness to, I will admit St.
Pierre was impressive.
And you know what?
What would have been so, I imagine, even harder to take about that is he would have been so nice with, hey, Chell, don't worry about it.
It's going to be a better day for you tomorrow, you know?
He did all of that, and he told me about, oh, you know, I went out last night.
I did not get home until 5 in the morning.
I'm very tired.
You know, he did this whole thing, and it's like, okay, I'm just going to the shower.
Now, we were close.
You know, he paid me some compliments afterwards, too.
But, you know, if I was to be fair about it, man, George was the victor that day.
If I'm being fair about it, you just made George St.
Pierre sound like the Iron Sheik.
I've only got one accent, man.
It doesn't matter what the nationality or ethnicity I'm attempting to do.
I could be doing you.
It comes out the same way.
Yeah.
Well, we should phrase that differently next time.
But before we go, podcaster extraordinaire, obviously commentator for ESPN, noted conservative, good man.
Where can people best find you?
They can find me on Twitter.
You know what?
I'm on Twitter constantly.
Sonnch.
S-O-N-N-E-N-C-H. Thank you very much, Chael, and I look forward to having you back, brother.
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