Katie Miller Podcast - Dr. Oz & Lisa Oz on Minnesota Fraud, Health Trends, & Transgender Surgeries | KMP Ep. 27
Aired: 2026-02-17
Duration: 01:05:22


=== Weaponized Fraud in California (14:54) ===

[00:00:00]  What was the most shocking thing you saw in Minnesota?
[00:00:02]  The weaponization of fraud.
[00:00:04]  There was an almost purposeful desire not to look carefully.
[00:00:07]  How big do you estimate the Medicaid fraud to be?
[00:00:09]  $100 billion.
[00:00:10]  When it comes to public health, what keeps you up at night?
[00:00:12]  We have a real crisis of meaning in America, and it's leading to loneliness, and that creates mental health issues that are very hard to medicate, very hard to operate on, and very hard to treat with our federal insurance programs.
[00:00:24]  We have got to get the country connected again.
[00:00:27]  Anything you do with people you care about that's not dangerous is good for you.
[00:00:31]  So sitting down at a dinner with people that you love and having a fun time with alcohol and pizza from whatever place, that's all fine.
[00:00:38]  We do that.
[00:00:38]  That's not the issue.
[00:00:39]  The question is, what is your default?
[00:00:40]  Like, what do you naturally do when no one's looking?
[00:00:43]  And you know, if you're having alcohol for breakfast, there's a problem there, right?
[00:00:46]  If you're binge eating pizza at 11 o'clock at night because you're lonely, you're looking for love in all the wrong places.
[00:01:01]  Hi everyone and welcome to this week's episode of the Katie Miller Podcast.
[00:01:04]  We're excited to be back finally in Washington, D.C. today, joined by Lisa Oz and Mehmet Oz.
[00:01:09]  So great to have you.
[00:01:10]  We've been waiting and waiting and waiting to come pester you.
[00:01:13]  We have our own questions for you.
[00:01:14]  We'll get to those later.
[00:01:16]  We're taking over your podcast, Steve.
[00:01:18]  Well, you guys are not new to the TV and podcasting space.
[00:01:22]  You've been doing this for a while.
[00:01:23]  This is actually Lisa's expertise here.
[00:01:25]  Being in entertainment was not on my vision board at any level.
[00:01:29]  I was going to be an art surgeon.
[00:01:30]  I was raised in a family where I had a dad who was a doctor.
[00:01:34]  There was this expectation that you would take care of patients, sit in the hospital, do your work.
[00:01:38]  And then I met this one.
[00:01:40]  And tell the story how you tricked me into going to media.
[00:01:43]  I tricked him into going into media.
[00:01:45]  I'd love to know how.
[00:01:46]  I love being with him.
[00:01:48]  I don't know why, but my favorite thing.
[00:01:50]  And I couldn't really join him in the OR, and his favorite thing to do in the whole world is work.
[00:01:55]  And now I'm having a problem because I can't follow him into HHS or CMS.
[00:02:01]  But anyway, I wanted to work with him, so I thought, wow, he could come into entertainment because I was working peripherally in the field and dragged him over and got to boss him around for a while.
[00:02:13]  This is too humble.
[00:02:14]  Let me just tell him, Dylanster.
[00:02:15]  First of all, I want you to just get a tight chat on Lisa's eyes.
[00:02:18]  Would you stop?
[00:02:19]  So, those of you who remember the- I hate it when he tells this story.
[00:02:22]  The Byzine commercials.
[00:02:24]  Remember the Byzine commercials?
[00:02:25]  Yeah.
[00:02:26]  Bloodshot eyes, you put a little drop in there, looks great.
[00:02:28]  Those are her eyes.
[00:02:29]  You know why I got that job?
[00:02:30]  Because my eyes get so red.
[00:02:31]  They blow cigar smoke in your eyes in the audition.
[00:02:35]  And whoever got the bloodiest looking eyes got the job.
[00:02:38]  That was me.
[00:02:40]  So she was in entertainment.
[00:02:42]  She was writing and acting.
[00:02:44]  And she would criticize me when I would complain about how much people could have done to avoid me needing to open their chest and do open heart surgery.
[00:02:52]  And very thoughtfully said, you know, you can't blame America.
[00:02:55]  I mean, if you're not giving them the message, how could they get it?
[00:02:58]  And instead of just talking to us post-operatively when it's far too late to have done anything, go out there and start telling the story, evangelize about how much control people have over their destiny.
[00:03:08]  And Lisa's family had been involved in integrative medicine or alternative medicine.
[00:03:12]  There are a lot of names for it, but basically looking beyond traditional medicine for answers, much of what Maha represents today, and although her dad's a world-famous heart surgeon and had been on the first heart transplantation.
[00:03:23]  Are you Maha because of Lisa or did you come to Maha on your own?
[00:03:26]  You know, I was a steak and potatoes guy.
[00:03:28]  But now steak and potatoes are Maha.
[00:03:31]  They came back again, but definitely Maha because of Lisa.
[00:03:36]  She grew up in a home where they had an herb garden that they actually used.
[00:03:40]  They had all these alternative therapies that were conventionally part of their well-being.
[00:03:44]  Her mom raised six kids that way.
[00:03:46]  They were all really healthy.
[00:03:47]  There was a placard, a billboard almost, as you drove into their driveway to beware of a tech troll.
[00:03:53]  Attack trolls.
[00:03:54]  And unicorns.
[00:03:55]  Yes.
[00:03:55]  Now we really are scared of the unicorns.
[00:03:57]  But it was sort of almost a magical experience to witness health integrated into everything they talked about because the dividends were so obvious.
[00:04:05]  Having a family that looked great, felt great, wasn't plagued by chronic illnesses, it just became the norm in there.
[00:04:11]  And they're in a church community.
[00:04:13]  So their spirituality is part of that as well.
[00:04:16]  And it opened my eyes to a whole different way of thinking about what health represented.
[00:04:19]  Because to me, health was not being in the hospital.
[00:04:22]  And you could always treat health problems with surgery.
[00:04:25]  But of course, not only is that not true, it's dangerously misleading because you don't recognize, and I live this right now running Medicare and Medicaid.
[00:04:33]  We cannot fund the healthcare system with a population that is not able to deal with chronic illness.
[00:04:39]  It just bankrupts everything.
[00:04:41]  And it is ultimately how we will unlock the most value in America.
[00:04:44]  Because what's our biggest asset?
[00:04:46]  Our people.
[00:04:47]  And I'll just give you one number.
[00:04:48]  I know you don't like to talk politics, but this is not a political issue.
[00:04:50]  This is a policy reality.
[00:04:52]  If we can get the average person to feel healthy enough, vital enough, engaged enough in their lives to want to work an extra year.
[00:04:59]  They either start earlier, they work throughout their career without taking large blocks of time off, maybe they add an extra year at the end.
[00:05:05]  That's worth about $3 trillion to our economy.
[00:05:08]  That's the power of being Maha, of being able to feel fully engaged.
[00:05:13]  And Lisa's family was doing that automatically.
[00:05:16]  And I just have to catch up.
[00:05:17]  So you went from being a doctor, which you're still a doctor, so I'm going to diminish that, but working as a doctor, as a full-time profession, to doing a TV show to Senate.
[00:05:30]  Yes.
[00:05:30]  And then now you are the administrator of CMS.
[00:05:34]  Which has been the best part of your career?
[00:05:37]  Well, there's no question.
[00:05:38]  I tell everybody this.
[00:05:38]  My best job I've ever had is running this agency.
[00:05:42]  What would Lisa say?
[00:05:43]  100% the same.
[00:05:44]  Because it's so impactful and transformative.
[00:05:48]  And everything that he's been working towards his entire career is crystallized in this opportunity.
[00:05:55]  Because it's always about helping people be healthier, helping people make the right choices.
[00:06:01]  And there is no better place for him to use his business acumen and his medical degree and his ability to communicate.
[00:06:11]  Everything he does well is what makes him so great at this job.
[00:06:15]  In retrospect, do you think it was the best outcome that you didn't win the Senate race to be able to be in this situation right now at this time?
[00:06:22]  Do you think about that?
[00:06:23]  Of course.
[00:06:24]  If I don't think about it, the president reminds me.
[00:06:27]  He says I'm the luckiest guy he knows.
[00:06:29]  It was divine providence.
[00:06:31]  You mentioned this was his favorite job that he's had so far.
[00:06:35]  What has been your most favorite actual success of the administration in the past year?
[00:06:40]  I would say just of the things that Dr. Oz has worked on?
[00:06:44]  What I find really mind-blowing and exciting, and I think will have tremendous impact, is all the fraud that they've uncovered.
[00:06:54]  I mean, it's, we did not expect that.
[00:06:58]  It is not what he thought he was coming into this job to do.
[00:07:01]  And it's billions and billions, I feel like Carl Sagan with, you know, billions and billions.
[00:07:06]  It's like as many stars.
[00:07:08]  It's so much money that has been stolen from the American taxpayer.
[00:07:12]  And I think the fact that CMS is taking this on is really important.
[00:07:16]  What was the most shocking thing you saw in Minnesota?
[00:07:20]  The weaponization of fraud.
[00:07:22]  This is, you know, when you're elected to office, there's some rules that you're obliged to follow.
[00:07:31]  But there's always the opportunity for political patronage.
[00:07:34]  Doing favors for people can help you back.
[00:07:36]  And it's not always transparent to the voter.
[00:07:38]  But by federal law, if I sign you up for Medicaid, I have to offer you voter ID.
[00:07:43]  So it's basically a voter enrichment and enrollment process.
[00:07:47]  And in Minnesota, I really think having been there and interviewed folks who work in their Department of Health and Human Services, that there was a almost purposeful desire not to look carefully.
[00:07:58]  And it wasn't just in Minnesota.
[00:08:00]  It was in Washington.
[00:08:02]  The program that we have that audits Medicaid was gutted.
[00:08:05]  There wasn't really a desire to focus on program integrity.
[00:08:10]  Like, who's supposed to be on insurance, who's not?
[00:08:12]  because just give it to more people and we're better off.
[00:08:15]  The problem is you should need to actually deserve to be on the program.
[00:08:19]  Because if you don't deserve to be on the program and you get all the benefits, you actually reduce our ability to help the people who deserve to be on the program.
[00:08:27]  There's a quote that adorns the entranceway to our building where Secretary Ketty, myself, Marty McCary, Jay Barashari, just great people get to walk past every day.
[00:08:34]  And the quote says, it's the moral obligation of government, the moral obligation to take care of those at the dawn of life are children, those at the twilight of life are elderly, and those living in the shadows.
[00:08:44]  That's what Medicaid was created for.
[00:08:47]  Medicare was supposed to deal with the older folks, right?
[00:08:49]  We had it all worked out.
[00:08:50]  Then, with the addition of able-bodied people to these programs and then a changing of what you expect to do, the biggest change in many ways is we decided that we should start paying for things your family used to do for you, carrying the groceries upstairs, negotiating your contract, a rental deal, giving you places to stay in between care groups.
[00:09:10]  I mean, that's stuff that usually we wouldn't have to do.
[00:09:12]  How big do you estimate the Medicaid fraud to be?
[00:09:14]  $100 billion.
[00:09:16]  $100 billion.
[00:09:17]  That money should go back to making the Medicare Trust Fund solvent for many years.
[00:09:22]  It should go back to providing adequate high-quality services for mental health conditions.
[00:09:26]  It should allow us to take better care of people in rural parts of the country, underserved parts of the country.
[00:09:30]  But we look at numbers now, like in Southern California, where you have a seven-fold increase in hospice.
[00:09:35]  It doesn't make any sense.
[00:09:36]  I think 30% of hospice in the entire country must be down there.
[00:09:39]  I think the Senate Committee on Aging had a report today on something similar about home health care and home health care workers.
[00:09:46]  BLS data says it's the highest growing occupation in the country.
[00:09:49]  42% are foreign-born of those workers.
[00:09:53]  And it's predominantly all Medicaid funded.
[00:09:55]  Number one job in New York State is to be a home health care worker.
[00:09:59]  We're going to have more home health care workers than retail.
[00:10:01]  Medicaid fraud as it relates to home health care workers?
[00:10:04]  Oh, for sure.
[00:10:05]  I sent a letter to our good friend Governor Newsom, concerned about the massive increase in home health care in California, where literally one in $10 spent in the entire country in home health care is in LA, not California, LA.
[00:10:19]  It should be a third of that.
[00:10:22]  And I went after it because I know this is the same organized criminal efforts.
[00:10:27]  By the way, these aren't accidents.
[00:10:28]  These are often foreign nationals.
[00:10:30]  We've got Russians in California who fled back to Russia when they got indicted.
[00:10:34]  We have Cuban-run strings, which we believe the Cuban government's involved in with durable medical equipment.
[00:10:40]  That's the people who sell you wheelchairs and canes.
[00:10:43]  Listen to this, that's going to blow your mind.
[00:10:44]  There are 20 times more durable medical equipment providers in South Florida than McDonald's.
[00:10:51]  You need 20 times more wheelchairs than burgers.
[00:10:54]  It's just bizarre.
[00:10:55]  I mean, how could you, and you have to, again, almost not be looking.
[00:10:58]  We have more personal care services in New York.
[00:11:01]  I mentioned the retail.
[00:11:02]  I mean, this is way beyond what you'd imagine.
[00:11:05]  And there are a couple states that are way off the norm.
[00:11:09]  I mean, every state has its own issues.
[00:11:11]  And I also, I've written this.
[00:11:13]  So when Gavin Newsom doesn't respond to you, what are you going to do?
[00:11:15]  Oh, he's been responding on internet.
[00:11:18]  Oh, on X?
[00:11:18]  On X, responding quite aggressively, and we're having a wonderful conversation.
[00:11:22]  But there's also a letter that I tucked in his email inbox that is a lengthy list of questions that he has to answer.
[00:11:30]  And if he doesn't answer them, then we're going to start deferring a lot of money.
[00:11:34]  I'll be talking about hundreds of millions of dollars from payments.
[00:11:37]  California has already admitted that they have overbilled the federal government $1.8 billion last year for illegal immigrants who are on the California State Medicaid program.
[00:11:49]  Again, State Medicaid in California pays full dental, full vision, full everything.
[00:11:53]  You don't get that on Medicare.
[00:11:55]  That's why they're doing the billionaire taxes because Medi-Cal picks up the expense for all the illegal aliens.
[00:12:00]  Well, they pick up some of the expense.
[00:12:01]  We've been getting billed for a lot of it.
[00:12:03]  We're going to stop that.
[00:12:03]  And because of that, they're now beginning to curtail some of those benefits.
[00:12:06]  But yes, they have to tax people more.
[00:12:08]  But I think people should, and here's the bigger issue.
[00:12:11]  We've talked about this quite a bit in terms of broad incentives.
[00:12:14]  If you've come here illegally, and the vast numbers of people who did come here illegally in the last administration, the president has said it's going to take 100, 200 years to get them legally out of the country.
[00:12:25]  So what you really have to do is don't make it so attractive.
[00:12:28]  Give free housing, free food, free medical care.
[00:12:31]  Obviously, in an emergency, we're going to take care of people.
[00:12:33]  We're Americans.
[00:12:34]  We take care of people in trouble.
[00:12:35]  So if you're having a baby, you're having a crisis, of course we can take care of you.
[00:12:38]  That's not the norm.
[00:12:40]  You're getting your crowns redone.
[00:12:42]  You're having your wisdom toothpill pulled.
[00:12:44]  You're getting eye exams, hearing aids.
[00:12:48]  I mean, come on.
[00:12:48]  If you're not getting that in New Mexico, why are they paying more taxes to the federal government in New Mexico so I can shunt it back into California?
[00:12:56]  It's not right.
[00:12:57]  And no one's been willing to talk about it.
[00:12:59]  And one nice thing about this administration is you might not like us, but you're going to get our version of the truth.
[00:13:05]  And what we generally would, because we're looking at the numbers, pretty accurately can define as being the truth.
[00:13:10]  Polymarket has a bet going about whether anyone will be charged in Minnesota.
[00:13:16]  Do you think you're very close to providing the evidence to create charges or to finally charge somebody for I answer that question?
[00:13:24]  Let me just emphasize I don't think it's the right question, but I'm going to answer it.
[00:13:27]  And the reason I don't think it's the right question is my goal is not putting people in jail because you know how long you go to jail for for $5 million of Medicaid fraud?
[00:13:35]  18 months.
[00:13:36]  Like who cares?
[00:13:37]  It's backwards.
[00:13:38]  It's completely upside down.
[00:13:39]  You rob a bank and steal $10,000.
[00:13:41]  You go to jail for 20 years.
[00:13:43]  You steal $5 million for Medicaid, 18 months.
[00:13:46]  I mean, that's a pretty good deal for a lot of people.
[00:13:48]  People listening right now say 18 months.
[00:13:50]  I mean, I'll do that.
[00:13:50]  I can take a year and a half off, read some books.
[00:13:52]  I'll come out with $5 million in a nice beach house.
[00:13:54]  It's not bad.
[00:13:55]  I tend to agree.
[00:13:56]  But the other problem is these guys get the money and they ship it overseas.
[00:14:01]  It's gone before they get caught, and they're usually gone.
[00:14:03]  Like the biggest bust we did last year was about $10 billion.
[00:14:07]  All the perpetrators are in Russia.
[00:14:08]  They ran away.
[00:14:10]  So the big question is don't leave the money, don't let the money leave the building.
[00:14:14]  However, since you asked the question, the big challenge with convictions is that we never ask the employees of the state government to swear they're doing the right thing.
[00:14:25]  They're never asked to attest that this money was rightfully given to the person who stole it.
[00:14:31]  So who are you going to put in jail?
[00:14:32]  What did they do wrong?
[00:14:33]  They were sloppy.
[00:14:34]  They didn't do their job.
[00:14:35]  They ignored the truth.
[00:14:36]  But they never wrote on a letter that they did the wrong thing.
[00:14:40]  And so it's really difficult.
[00:14:42]  It is much easier for us to go after the actual perpetrators.
[00:14:44]  And that's where the convictions will happen.
[00:14:46]  And yes, we've given data to the U.S. Attorney.
[00:14:48]  We believe there will be convictions.
[00:14:50]  I'm leaving them to the FBI.
[00:14:52]  I've spoken to Pan Bondi, Kash Patel, U.S. Attorneys.

=== Hepatitis Vaccines and Operations (15:04) ===

[00:14:54]  We made the rounds.
[00:14:55]  The president is very animated by this issue.
[00:14:58]  But my job is to make sure we don't lose the money anymore and we stop paying for activities that are illegal.
[00:15:03]  What's Polymarket saying?
[00:15:06]  Polymarket says 56% charges will be brought by June 30th, 75% say by December 31.
[00:15:12]  Oh, okay.
[00:15:13]  Polymarket's pretty accurate.
[00:15:14]  They're typically right.
[00:15:15]  Yeah, they're typically right.
[00:15:16]  We pretty much.
[00:15:17]  I remember the day of the election, I was sitting with a gentleman who, Tomas Pedofi, he owns Interactive Brokers, and he had a mechanism for looking at how much people were betting on the election.
[00:15:30]  And around 7 o'clock, he said, it's over.
[00:15:31]  The president's going to win.
[00:15:32]  I said, we're all nervous, of course, because, you know.
[00:15:34]  Polymarket had it pretty early.
[00:15:36]  Yeah.
[00:15:36]  And so he was very comfortable.
[00:15:38]  I wasn't comfortable until the final numbers came in, and plus some.
[00:15:42]  So President Trump was able to lower drug costs earlier this year for more patients than Obamacare or Biden's so-called Inflation Reduction Act.
[00:15:48]  How were those deals done?
[00:15:49]  And how did Trump RX come to be?
[00:15:52]  This is a vitally important tale because the president has been, since the first administration, angry about something that I bet a lot of people don't realize, which is you pay three times more for the exact same medication, brand drugs, made often in a U.S. facility than people would pay in Europe.
[00:16:08]  Three times more.
[00:16:09]  And so the president was very adamant and called frequently, right?
[00:16:13]  I mean, at different hours.
[00:16:15]  All hours.
[00:16:16]  Because he wanted this address.
[00:16:17]  So we put together a killer team, Chris Klump, John Brooks, Inma Hernandez.
[00:16:23]  These people have very different expertise areas, but they were very successful in doing deals.
[00:16:27]  And we just went out and got to the pharma companies and we looked them in the eyes and said, listen, you're charging three times more, three times more for the same drugs in America than overseas.
[00:16:35]  How do you defend that?
[00:16:36]  And they would say, when you got them in a new quiet spot, we can't.
[00:16:39]  And we knew one day you'd come.
[00:16:41]  And now that you're here, we've cut a deal.
[00:16:43]  And we did with all the major companies, as the president had asked.
[00:16:46]  And the most favored nation pricing means that you may not charge more to Americans than other developed countries are being charged for the same drugs.
[00:16:55]  That's also something that's vitally important for the average American because we cannot put all of those drugs on trumprx.gov, which is the website, where we now have transparent access to all the drugs over time.
[00:17:06]  We're having more drugs every week.
[00:17:09]  And these drugs will, these lists will allow you to know if you're getting a good deal or not.
[00:17:13]  And if you want to get these drugs from the site, against the best prices we have, we don't make any money on this.
[00:17:18]  You don't have to pay to join the site.
[00:17:19]  Are you making Europe do the same thing where Europe has to pay for its fair share of the drugs, just like we do with NATO?
[00:17:25]  Yes, we just negotiated exactly like NATO.
[00:17:27]  We just negotiated with the United Kingdom, which is notoriously the worst.
[00:17:30]  We've already approached many of the other countries, but it's just like NATO.
[00:17:33]  We're saying, listen, you guys got to chip in 5% of your GDP to protect yourselves from an external threat.
[00:17:38]  You've got to also pay to protect yourself from internal threats like cancer.
[00:17:41]  And the hidden story is that in many parts of Europe- Do you think we're gonna cure cancer?
[00:17:45]  Well, we're- Well, cancer is not one thing.
[00:17:47]  We will cure some of the biggest cancers.
[00:17:49]  We're already making incredible inroads.
[00:17:52]  Cancer is a horrible and dangerous disease, but the mechanisms by which it tricks your body to be able to survive are ones we're now understanding better than ever.
[00:18:02]  I'll tell you one of the good examples.
[00:18:03]  How is it that baby in your belly right now doesn't get rejected by you?
[00:18:07]  Because that baby has half Stevens genes.
[00:18:09]  But you don't think that's partly why women have like giant immunological responses while they're pregnant?
[00:18:13]  This is my own personal theory.
[00:18:15]  Like why have I been more nauseous this pregnancy?
[00:18:16]  Why have I had more eczema this pregnancy?
[00:18:18]  Without question.
[00:18:19]  It's because it's more of my husband's genetic makeup than mine in this baby.
[00:18:22]  Well not more.
[00:18:22]  It's equal.
[00:18:24]  I'm telling you, the babies can turn out and look like him.
[00:18:26]  It might be, but it's the baby's a little bit more than you.
[00:18:29]  All babies are a little more their mom because the mitochondria are all more maternal DNA.
[00:18:33]  So every baby is a little more the mom.
[00:18:35]  However, back to the tale, that baby in your belly is able to hide from you with this cloaking mechanism.
[00:18:42]  So you can't attack it.
[00:18:44]  However, fast forward 25 years, that same cloaking mechanism could now allow one of your own cells from your pancreas to hide and grow without you realizing it.
[00:18:55]  So if we could pierce that cloaking mechanism and allow your body to realize that that's not good in there, it would attack it and kill it.
[00:19:01]  Those immunologic therapies are dramatically improving survival.
[00:19:04]  Will insurance companies end up covering drugs for patients on Trump RX without the markup?
[00:19:10]  Eventually, I believe that will be the case.
[00:19:12]  I think there's going to be, and we want legislation from Congress to make this easier.
[00:19:17]  And as part of the great health care plan, that's specifically in there.
[00:19:20]  Codify the most favored Asian drug pricing.
[00:19:23]  So it can't go away because I do think President is such a force that when he leaves, that these companies might not want to follow these rules anymore.
[00:19:32]  So we want Congress to codify it.
[00:19:34]  been talking to Congress and there's some smart people coming up with good ways of maybe doing that and then we also would want to make sure that we make it easier for the average American to access it whether they're paying with cash and doing it with insurance no matter how you want to get your medications you should get access to the best prices on trumpbarx.gov.
[00:19:50]  Does it concern you how much of our drugs are currently made in China and how much of our biotech is there?
[00:19:57]  National security risk that everybody's focused on now.
[00:20:01]  We have a whole workflow on this.
[00:20:02]  I can't talk about the details of it, but we cannot be in a situation where China could decide to stop sending us stuff.
[00:20:11]  Batteries, chips.
[00:20:14]  We already had problems with protective gear during COVID, but we have got to be able to onshore the generic manufacturing capacity of our country.
[00:20:23]  Right now, just everyone knows, almost all the key starter materials come from China.
[00:20:27]  A lot of these advanced, these pharmaceutical ingredients get manufactured in China and India.
[00:20:32]  They brought here, and then we just bake them into pills.
[00:20:34]  We literally just make a pilling business.
[00:20:37]  We're not actually making the raw materials.
[00:20:39]  We have to be able to make them.
[00:20:40]  Your kids were obviously raised with health and wellness in mind, given Lisa's extensive background in it.
[00:20:47]  What are some of the things you did with your kids that are now considered more commonplace that were radical at the time?
[00:20:54]  Was there anything radical?
[00:20:55]  We were considered the strict parents in the school, so our kids always had curfews.
[00:21:00]  They weren't allowed to see R-rated movies.
[00:21:03]  They were raised vegetarian.
[00:21:05]  So people looked at us like we were a little weird.
[00:21:08]  Did you vaccinate?
[00:21:10]  Have you ever talked about that?
[00:21:12]  We did, not on the schedule, and we got a lot of pushback for that.
[00:21:21]  They got their first vaccine the day before they went to school because that way we were there moving towards being fully vaccinated.
[00:21:30]  Anything we could avoid, we did.
[00:21:33]  Would you recommend now, say, if you were speaking to a pregnant mother, what vaccines, obviously understanding you don't give medical advice for the giant community and we should all follow the CDC guidelines check.
[00:21:46]  All disclaimers.
[00:21:48]  But if this was you in your personal life, would you say to me, don't get anything for the baby?
[00:21:54]  No, I think what Secretary Kennedy did was wise.
[00:21:58]  He looked around the world and said, in Europe, they just take a different approach to this than we do.
[00:22:03]  And it's a rational approach.
[00:22:04]  It may not be the approach everyone wants, but it's a reasonable approach.
[00:22:07]  And it's quite a few doses of product less than we take in this country.
[00:22:12]  The argument they make in Europe, Katie, is that there are some vaccines that are really important.
[00:22:17]  And you don't want to dilute the adherence of those vaccines, making sure at least 90% of people get them by saying you've got to get 80 shots of vaccines.
[00:22:26]  And so focus on the ones that really matter.
[00:22:27]  And then the other ones are, get them.
[00:22:29]  Yeah, we recommend you get them, but we're not going to block you from going to school or anywhere else if you don't get them.
[00:22:34]  And that's actually where I think a lot of Americans might find themselves in a couple years once they've thought about these issues.
[00:22:39]  But my job is very clear.
[00:22:41]  And this is, I mean, we've hammered home.
[00:22:43]  I'm supposed to pay for every vaccine you might want.
[00:22:46]  And you can decide which ones you want.
[00:22:47]  You can take the core essential group.
[00:22:49]  You can take the ones that now are not in that group, but still available.
[00:22:54]  But we've got to be able to pay for them because what we don't want is lack of access.
[00:22:58]  And as long as we get that, then it's really about choice.
[00:23:01]  I'll give you an example, hepatitis B vaccine.
[00:23:04]  That's something we give at birth.
[00:23:06]  And it's, you know, around the country, it's generally mandated.
[00:23:08]  That just changed.
[00:23:09]  And the argument, just everyone, take a step back before you make a decision about whether you're anti-vaxxer or not.
[00:23:14]  If you're not going to get exposed to hepatitis B, because your mother tested negative for it, because you can really only get it if it's sexually transmitted or through intravenous drugs, then you might want to get the vaccine.
[00:23:25]  Our kids did get the vaccine, but when they were older, teenagers.
[00:23:28]  They don't really need to give it to a one-month-old because they're not going to be exposed to these things.
[00:23:31]  You certainly wouldn't give it the day they're born unless you think they're going to be exposed.
[00:23:35]  And I've really had a difficult time getting someone to explain to me why it was so important that it happens the day they are born when I can test the mother and know she doesn't have hepatitis B. If I don't know if she has hepatitis B, or obviously if she tests positive, it's a whole different story.
[00:23:48]  Those are the kinds of scientific debates we've had trouble.
[00:23:51]  I recently asked my pediatrician this question, and I said, why are we giving it to a newborn?
[00:23:57]  And she says, well, why don't we do it, you know, when you're in my office?
[00:23:59]  And I was like, okay, so three days later.
[00:24:01]  And I said, why?
[00:24:01]  She goes, that's when it's the easiest to give because the parents are already captive.
[00:24:05]  That's wrong.
[00:24:06]  Yeah, I think that's going to lose.
[00:24:08]  But I was also fired by my pediatrician.
[00:24:10]  Well, actually, see, that's a bigger concern because we incentivize pediatricians to give vaccines by giving them financial rewards sometimes if they have a certain percentage of their patients getting vaccinated.
[00:24:21]  But that actually makes it hard for them to take care of you because you've got a lot of kids.
[00:24:23]  You have more, right?
[00:24:24]  So if they're going to get this whole Miller family through there and none of them getting their vaccines on schedule, and again, Lisa vaccinated the kids, but she didn't do it on the schedule that was recommended by the American Associated Pediatrics.
[00:24:35]  All of a sudden, that makes life difficult for the pediatricians.
[00:24:37]  We need to find a better way of allowing pediatricians to customize the care because who loves the kids the most?
[00:24:43]  Their parents.
[00:24:44]  They're not trying to hurt the kids.
[00:24:45]  They're trying to help the kids.
[00:24:46]  If they in their heart believe they can delay hepatitis B vaccine until the kids are a bit older, and there's a scientific rationale for that.
[00:24:53]  But I think take the other side of the story because this is just breaking news, and I think it's sort of cool.
[00:24:57]  We've had this big battle in America for the last couple of years about sex-rejecting surgery.
[00:25:01]  Right?
[00:25:02]  My favorite, yeah.
[00:25:03]  Yeah, you're one of your favorites.
[00:25:05]  You're getting, you know, gender dysmorphia or whatever word you're going to call it.
[00:25:08]  You're not happy with your gender.
[00:25:09]  Do you get really excited now and you watch these hospitals say publicly that they're no longer going to go gender surgery because of decisions you've helped make?
[00:25:17]  Yes.
[00:25:17]  Do you not like, I read all those articles and every time I'm like, yeah, go, Dr. Oz.
[00:25:21]  But I tell you, what makes me really happy is I think there was always a silent majority that didn't want this happening in their hospitals.
[00:25:29]  And someone just needed to go out there and say, stop.
[00:25:32]  We're going to give you an excuse to stop.
[00:25:34]  And I'll just tell you the story because I think it's a great example of this.
[00:25:37]  So, you know, we had the press conference with Secretary Kennedy and a lot of other folks.
[00:25:41]  This is not just me, by the way.
[00:25:42]  We all together started doing this.
[00:25:43]  And the person who really led this battle, Stephanie Carlton, who's my chief of staff.
[00:25:47]  She early on, you know, we're nominated by the president, but we don't get in the office for a month or more sometimes, right?
[00:25:54]  Because you have to get it confirmed by the Senate.
[00:25:56]  She ran the agency.
[00:25:57]  Early on, Stephen Miller, who you know well, said, we've got to deal with this issue.
[00:26:02]  We cannot let this slide.
[00:26:03]  So she put a work group together.
[00:26:05]  They started working on this.
[00:26:06]  And that resulted in us saying we will no longer, no longer give federal dollars for sex-rejecting surgery.
[00:26:13]  Americans are no longer going to have their money taken and given to Medicaid so it can pay for these operations on little children.
[00:26:19]  Remember, but you're just talking children.
[00:26:20]  You're not talking adults.
[00:26:22]  If you're a 25-year-old and you want to do whatever you want, go for it.
[00:26:25]  I'm only talking to you.
[00:26:26]  Different children.
[00:26:28]  And most children in America, we cover.
[00:26:31]  Most children are born into poverty or have financial challenges, so they're on Medicaid or CHIP.
[00:26:36]  So we made this decision, a lot of battles.
[00:26:38]  The major media rejection of our arguments was that the medical groups all uniformly, monolithically say that these operations are okay.
[00:26:48]  That was the arguments that every major journal would say.
[00:26:52]  And that was actually directionally correct.
[00:26:55]  Most medical groups weren't willing to say anything strong against these operations.
[00:26:59]  The first group came out and finally said that it's not right to mutilate children.
[00:27:05]  But I'll tell you how it happened.
[00:27:06]  This is the part that I think everyone, our administration, and I have to credit the president for this, believes that you can pass laws, you can make rules, but you ultimately have the power to convene.
[00:27:16]  The president can pull people together who normally don't talk to each other.
[00:27:20]  We did this with getting the most favored nation drug pricing.
[00:27:23]  We did it with getting this prior authorization process.
[00:27:27]  Insurance companies are interfering with your care.
[00:27:28]  We got the companies together and got them to pay attention to each other and gave them safe harbors so they could actually figure out the answers and then they worked with us.
[00:27:36]  So we went to the big academic groups, all the heads of the American Plastic Society, Surgeon Society, the American Medical Association, the American Association of Family Practitioners, all these big groups.
[00:27:47]  We did grand rounds.
[00:27:48]  We said, we're going to challenge you.
[00:27:50]  Come meet with us.
[00:27:50]  I know you don't like us.
[00:27:52]  Maybe you hate us, but you've got to come because I'm calling you for a grand round, the grandest of all grand rounds.
[00:27:58]  And we sat there, and Steph Carlton and a bunch of scientists presented, Steph's a nurse, presented all this information.
[00:28:05]  And at the end of it all, the American Association of Plastic Surgeons, they went out and they said, we don't anymore think this is rational to do, that these procedures, based on what we know as the plastic surgeons, should not take place until you're 19 years of age.
[00:28:18]  Once they went first bravely, then the American Medical Association said, we're going to support the plastic surgeons because they know more about this than we do.
[00:28:26]  So they said the same thing.
[00:28:27]  We're supporting them.
[00:28:28]  So all of a sudden, one by one, the dominoes toppled.
[00:28:31]  And just by getting people, forcing people into a room where they had to actually talk about what's going on, we empowered the silent folks who probably wanted this all along, but this couldn't get heard.
[00:28:43]  And this is important for, I think, listeners and viewers to hear because we have, in America, allowed a bullying of people who don't agree with the conventional wisdom.
[00:28:54]  And that has to stop.
[00:28:56]  That is deadly to a society.
[00:28:58]  And now over 30 hospitals, since you've made this announcement, have ceased doing gender mutilation on children.
[00:29:05]  Yes, and more will come.
[00:29:07]  And this announcement just now, I'm giving you breaking news, is going to compel many other institutions.
[00:29:13]  And listen, there are things we can do to make life uncomfortable, but why not just win the argument?
[00:29:18]  And most people, if you ask him quietly in the corner, I ask the doctors this, if your child was 14 and they wanted to do all these mutilating operations, would you let them?
[00:29:28]  And most of them said, no way.
[00:29:30]  I said, why don't you tell people that?
[00:29:32]  It's the same thing for hepatitis B at birth.
[00:29:34]  Ask doctors if they would give their own kids hepatitis B vaccine at birth.
[00:29:38]  I know you say things publicly because you want to be nice, you don't want to get criticized and nobody likes negative articles written about them, but in your own life, would you do that?
[00:29:45]  If the answer is no, then speak up.
[00:29:47]  We have a civic responsibility to tell people things that we know to be true in our own lives.
[00:29:53]  At least they can make a wiser choice then.
[00:29:55]  So I want to quickly jump back to some of the successes of what you've done.

=== Saving Lives in the Oval Office (04:27) ===

[00:29:59]  You've saved two people, I think, in the Oval Office this year.
[00:30:03]  I don't know if I saw that.
[00:30:04]  It was wide waving.
[00:30:06]  Savings happening.
[00:30:10]  So the president is confident I'm doing this on purpose.
[00:30:13]  But I'll tell you.
[00:30:15]  So the first time this happened, I was getting sworn in.
[00:30:19]  And I thought it was just going to be a swearing-in ceremony.
[00:30:21]  And then the president did a press conference after the ceremony.
[00:30:23]  Bobby was there.
[00:30:24]  You know, Minister Dotisa was holding the Bible.
[00:30:26]  So it was a nice ceremony.
[00:30:27]  We wanted the kids to be there and the grandkids.
[00:30:29]  So my little waif of a 10-year-old, 11-year-old grandchild that I have didn't eat breakfast, drove down from Philadelphia where they're living.
[00:30:36]  My son-in-law has joined the administration.
[00:30:38]  He's running the Export Import Bank.
[00:30:39]  So he was, you know, the president liked, wanted to have him in the family.
[00:30:43]  So they all came.
[00:30:44]  It was a wonderful event.
[00:30:45]  But it went on for a little bit.
[00:30:46]  And little girl hadn't eaten and dehydrated and she collapses.
[00:30:49]  Daphne catches her.
[00:30:50]  We take her off to that back area where the president has outside the Oval Office.
[00:30:55]  Get her together.
[00:30:55]  And the president, she's my grandson, the brother.
[00:30:59]  And marching around the office, very mad because the press gaggle had taken pictures of my granddaughter when she fainted.
[00:31:05]  And he was mad about it.
[00:31:06]  They thought she had been violated.
[00:31:08]  So he's walking around the Oval Office.
[00:31:10]  And the president says, that tank grandson of yours is, you know, he could be a problem.
[00:31:13]  We've got to get him over here.
[00:31:15]  So actually, I'm telling you this story because I think if people really understood the man that the president really is and why we adore him, you'd think about what he's saying a little differently.
[00:31:23]  So the president calls him over.
[00:31:24]  He said, come sit in my lap.
[00:31:26]  And John's there and says, you can look through this resolute desk.
[00:31:28]  It's called the Resolute Desk.
[00:31:29]  He gives him a little story.
[00:31:31]  He says, pick the drawer, open up whatever's in there you can take.
[00:31:33]  So he opens the top drawers.
[00:31:34]  They have big presidential coins in there.
[00:31:36]  His eyes go like saucers.
[00:31:37]  They open up.
[00:31:38]  And all of a sudden, all the angst about his sister is all gone.
[00:31:41]  And then the president, and this is, again, this is his art form.
[00:31:44]  He looks at little John and he said, what about your sister?
[00:31:48]  What do you want to do with her?
[00:31:50]  And the test is obvious.
[00:31:52]  So he looks at the coin, looks at the president, looks at the coin.
[00:31:54]  He says, I'm going to give this to her.
[00:31:57]  And the president, of course, was testing him.
[00:31:59]  She comes out, little girl, and this is classic feminine energy.
[00:32:02]  Now she's completely better.
[00:32:03]  She's boisterous, bouncing around.
[00:32:05]  And he says, you want one of these coins with you that your brother has?
[00:32:07]  She says, yeah.
[00:32:08]  Yeah, I like the coin.
[00:32:09]  But you know, what I really want with the coin, all those pens.
[00:32:12]  And she scoops up the pens that executive orders get sideways.
[00:32:16]  Like the one he signed my commission with.
[00:32:18]  And she walked that way.
[00:32:19]  You were raiding the desk.
[00:32:21]  The second time, very quickly, it was actually a cautionary tale, but also something people can learn from.
[00:32:27]  So we're sitting in the Oval Office doing one of our announcements with the drug companies, and one of the folks is there.
[00:32:31]  And I could see him begin to toddle back and forth.
[00:32:34]  And if you're standing for long periods of time, you want to move your knees a little bit to get the blood flowing.
[00:32:37]  He didn't do that.
[00:32:38]  And I saw him starting to go down.
[00:32:40]  And the most dangerous thing that happens when you lose consciousness is you bang your head.
[00:32:44]  And the most important thing you need to do to save them and help them is catch them.
[00:32:48]  It's like not a, you don't have to be a heart surgeon.
[00:32:50]  Just catch the person and don't drop them.
[00:32:53]  So as he began to go down, I saw him teetering.
[00:32:55]  I ran over.
[00:32:56]  He's behind the president.
[00:32:57]  He was going to fall and hit his head on the resolute desk, the same desk.
[00:32:59]  Perfect.
[00:33:00]  So I grabbed him, bear hugged, put him on the ground.
[00:33:02]  If you get him to the ground, almost always you can figure out what's going on.
[00:33:06]  So a little sugar inside of the mouth, honey, whatever, anything, just get some sugar in there in case her blood sugar's low.
[00:33:10]  I lift her legs up, gets more blood to the heart.
[00:33:13]  And doing that, we managed to get it back.
[00:33:15]  Now, here's the catch.
[00:33:16]  So are you invited back to the Oval Office for the next time?
[00:33:18]  Well, here's what happened.
[00:33:20]  You want the truth.
[00:33:22]  We have to put an IV in to get some IV fluids into the patient.
[00:33:26]  And I got a tiny bit of blood on the carpet.
[00:33:30]  Oh, no.
[00:33:31]  Now, the president, first of all, he looks over there.
[00:33:35]  He goes, Ah, you're out of practice.
[00:33:38]  And then he starts saying, I don't know what to do about this blood on the carpet.
[00:33:43]  So that's why he kids about it.
[00:33:45]  You know, kids may, of course, thankfully a gentleman did well.
[00:33:47]  But here's the part I really want folks to hear.
[00:33:50]  I called the wife just to let her know.
[00:33:51]  She saw it on national television.
[00:33:52]  She saw her husband go down.
[00:33:54]  And I said, I think he's going to be okay.
[00:33:55]  We're taking him to the hospital.
[00:33:56]  And the president said, what are you doing?
[00:33:58]  I said, I'm speaking to the wife.
[00:33:59]  He goes, give me that phone.
[00:34:00]  Takes the phone and talks to her, like only he can, to get her comfortable, get her confident, but also make it clear that he cared about her husband.
[00:34:10]  And that's the part of him, you know, you just don't see that.
[00:34:12]  I wish there was a way of bottling that, making people at least appreciate that when they get Trump derangement syndrome.
[00:34:17]  It is very hard to hate President Trump up close.
[00:34:20]  You might not like some of the policies, but the man himself, I mean, just look at the people, look at the family he's raised.
[00:34:25]  That's not an accident.

=== The True Nature of Marriage (02:36) ===

[00:34:27]  We briefly talked about Maha, but I think part of Maha is this healthy family lifestyle as well, which includes a healthy marriage.
[00:34:35]  You two have been married for how many years?
[00:34:37]  40.
[00:34:38]  How have you managed through many seasons of life that involved ups and downs?
[00:34:42]  And I think I've heard a story about an apartment when you guys, when Daphne was little.
[00:34:47]  Oh, when we lived in a one-bedroom apartment for seven years with two children, two rabbits, a cat, six rats, and probably some other sundry animals here and there.
[00:35:02]  A husband.
[00:35:03]  We had our bed in the living room, and the kids got the bedroom upstairs, the single, because it was a split-level apartment.
[00:35:10]  It was fun.
[00:35:10]  It was an adventure.
[00:35:12]  You asked an important question.
[00:35:14]  What is the secret to success?
[00:35:16]  And, you know, it would height of arrogance to think you know the answer to that.
[00:35:20]  My father-in-law told me a joke early on.
[00:35:22]  I won't tell many jokes.
[00:35:23]  I'm no Marco Ruby, I'll tell you that.
[00:35:25]  But he said, you know, when there's small decisions given to your wife, because when big decisions happen, you'll know what it feels like.
[00:35:35]  But the deeper truth is she will not like that I say this, but I'm just going to tell you.
[00:35:39]  You may just do that same thing.
[00:35:41]  The one that happens to be true, so I say it a lot.
[00:35:44]  Yeah, I married Lisa, and I think this is true for most people when they marry.
[00:35:49]  I knew exactly what I wanted, and I married her.
[00:35:53]  Just the way I wanted her.
[00:35:55]  And then she went off and started to change and get better and evolve and mature and look at different things that might accelerate her evolution as a person.
[00:36:03]  And Lisa, I think most women, they don't marry the man that they want.
[00:36:08]  They marry the man they think we can become.
[00:36:10]  And they have a goal for us.
[00:36:12]  And so they want us to change and keep up with their goals for us.
[00:36:16]  And we're naturally hesitant.
[00:36:17]  So from the moment you're married, you're sort of going in different directions.
[00:36:22]  And that's why you do have to sort of reinvent the relationship every seven years.
[00:36:25]  And that's, there's a biological reason for that.
[00:36:27]  You have hormonal handcuffs initially, because when you get married, you fall in love, you got oxytocin, that's the cuddling hormone, and then you get babies, and babies really bond you together.
[00:36:37]  But after about six, seven years, those hormonal handcuffs, they come off.
[00:36:41]  And now you actually have to let them- But what if you're still having babies after six and seven years?
[00:36:44]  You will, but you still have to fall back in love with the person and remind yourself, and they have to do the same that you're there for each other, because you're going to change both of you so much.
[00:36:51]  You still have to remind each other of that.
[00:36:53]  Because if you get stuck in thinking that your spouse is the person they were when you married and they've gone off and changed quite a bit, you're in love with the wrong person.
[00:37:01]  So your evolution is part of their evolution.

=== Reinventing Relationships Every Seven Years (05:55) ===

[00:37:04]  I get it partly right.
[00:37:06]  No, she's getting her PhD in Youngian Psychology.
[00:37:08]  I get psychoanalyzed now often.
[00:37:09]  They never psychoanalyze.
[00:37:10]  Devastating.
[00:37:11]  And the reason I don't like that story is because I loved him exactly the way he was the minute I saw him.
[00:37:17]  So, you know, she saw potential.
[00:37:19]  Well, yes, there was potential, but I thought he was perfect.
[00:37:22]  So I did not want him to change.
[00:37:24]  But you can't help but change.
[00:37:26]  You know, it's evolution.
[00:37:29]  When you guys deal with tough moments from being in the public eye for so many years, how do you handle that both with the intense media scrutiny and then behind closed doors just amongst you two?
[00:37:41]  Does one person feel more passionately than the other about how to handle it?
[00:37:46]  Yes, Lisa does.
[00:37:49]  She gets really angry.
[00:37:50]  Passionately, yes, but productively, probably not.
[00:37:55]  Yeah, I get, it's a good thing that those people aren't in front of me because I might hit them.
[00:38:00]  Do you keep a list?
[00:38:03]  She remembers everything.
[00:38:04]  She's mensa.
[00:38:05]  Her IQ is 150 something.
[00:38:06]  Stop what you say.
[00:38:07]  When we play board games, I get zero points.
[00:38:10]  I get no points.
[00:38:11]  You know what it's like being a heart surgeon, getting zero points on trivial pursuit?
[00:38:14]  You know what, it's, it's.
[00:38:16]  The following 14th century French philosopher said in French. Stop it, stop it.
[00:38:19]  Stop it.
[00:38:21]  It's not good.
[00:38:22]  I do react a little aggressively.
[00:38:24]  And then sometimes you have to reassess the value of that.
[00:38:29]  I don't know how it is for you.
[00:38:30]  I'm going to quiz you.
[00:38:31]  And I think Stephen might feel the same way, but it's really not about me when they get mad at me.
[00:38:36]  There's something that I'm triggering in the person who's angry, who is going to respond in a way.
[00:38:42]  Although, before he finishes that, which sounds really good, please use Stephen's quote, which is your favorite quote of all time.
[00:38:48]  And pretend that you're being bigger than life and so magnanimous to these Stephen at his birthday party said he enjoys sipping the tears of his enemies.
[00:39:00]  So I never heard that quote before.
[00:39:03]  So it was actually, so he said it his birthday because a year prior, it was August of the election year.
[00:39:09]  So right before Donald Trump had won.
[00:39:11]  And we had friends in our backyard.
[00:39:13]  And Stephen delivered a toast and said, this time next year, we'll be drinking the tears of our enemies in relation to the upcoming battle that was ahead, which was the November election.
[00:39:25]  So it was a bit poetic in the sense that he was drinking the tears of his enemies.
[00:39:29]  It was very clever without knowing.
[00:39:31]  Well, it was an impromptu speech in our backyard in the first place.
[00:39:34]  So that was the theme of part two, which was we did win.
[00:39:38]  The deeper reality, of course, is you have to be able to make peace and work with people who disagree vehemently with you.
[00:39:44]  And there's probably a lot more that folks have in common when they're fighting on these issues that people that don't even think about these problems.
[00:39:51]  I mean, I'll give you an example.
[00:39:52]  If you have different religious sects fighting over the essence of God and what it really means to your future well-being, they're all sort of connected by the fact that they're asking those same questions.
[00:40:02]  I find that parallels some of the things that happen in politics.
[00:40:05]  Heart surgeons who don't like each other have a lot more in common than heart surgeons and people they'll never meet in their lives.
[00:40:11]  And so part of the challenge is why do you disagree so much about things you probably would have common views on?
[00:40:17]  It's because truth looks different to different people.
[00:40:20]  When it comes to public health, what keeps you up at night?
[00:40:23]  Both of you?
[00:40:24]  We have a real crisis of meaning in America, and it's leading to loneliness, and that creates mental health issues that are very hard to medicate, very hard to operate on, and very hard to treat with our federal insurance programs.
[00:40:37]  We have got to get the country connected again.
[00:40:40]  And the more we atomize, the more we split off and be on our own, the more we lose the natural assets that humans have.
[00:40:47]  Katie, 50% of my brain is reading your face right now and figuring out, are you interested?
[00:40:52]  Are you engaged?
[00:40:53]  Am I boring you?
[00:40:54]  Is it saying yes?
[00:40:54]  Yes, it's saying you're good.
[00:40:55]  Okay, we're good.
[00:40:56]  And you're doing the same.
[00:40:57]  Now, why would half our brains be dedicated to reading the person next to you if it wasn't so important for us to be social beings living in community, not necessarily in harmony, just living together?
[00:41:08]  Humans came out of Africa about 50,000, 60,000 years ago and rapidly took over the entire planet because we had a unique ability to connect at that level and form groups that went beyond the family.
[00:41:18]  Families, you know, 17 people in your family.
[00:41:21]  How do you get to 50 or 500 or 5,000 or 50 million?
[00:41:24]  We have that unique ability.
[00:41:26]  If we don't use it, it's at our own peril.
[00:41:30]  So my public health concern that keeps me up at night is bigger than public health, but definitely impacts it, which is AI.
[00:41:37]  I am terrified that as we become more digital and more closely tracked and AI is involved in our health, that we will have compelled consumption.
[00:41:49]  So the way that we had vaccine mandates, it will just make it so much easier to force you to take whatever they want.
[00:41:55]  Any medication that your whoop says that you might need right now that you can be forced to consume it or you won't be able to function in society.
[00:42:03]  And I really don't like that.
[00:42:05]  I'll ask myself.
[00:42:06]  Mine's the fertility rate.
[00:42:07]  Oh, that's terrifying too.
[00:42:09]  Are you guys doing anything on the fertility rate?
[00:42:12]  So we took some of the leading medications that are really expensive in America and reduced our price by almost 90%.
[00:42:19]  Wow.
[00:42:20]  So we won't have a lot of Trump babies.
[00:42:22]  And so the average American will hopefully not be able to point to cost as an issue.
[00:42:26]  We've also made it easier for employers to provide fertility services.
[00:42:30]  But Katie, men and women have to meet each other and pair bond.
[00:42:34]  That's hard to do at the federal government level.
[00:42:37]  And this is, you know.
[00:42:38]  I met my husband in the federal government.
[00:42:40]  We can encouraging them to do so.
[00:42:43]  I'd pay you to, you know, and this is a...
[00:42:44]  Oh, you could.
[00:42:45]  Who's the, who's the, what, is it Poland or... Hungary, Hungary.
[00:42:49]  Hungary, they have a tax credit.
[00:42:50]  If you have four or more children, you never pay income tax again.
[00:42:55]  So there are ideas out there of that nature, but we just have to get people talking with each other.

=== Fertility Services for Americans (15:13) ===

[00:43:00]  That's why when I got asked at that press conference about whether when we did the Food Pyramid press conference, the first, you know, before you go out there, you sort of go through some of the key questions so everyone knows who's going to answer it.
[00:43:10]  And of course, the first question none of us had thought of, which was, you know, is alcohol good for you or not.
[00:43:15]  And so I looked at Bobby and he said, oh, I'm about to take it out.
[00:43:18]  Caroline said, I'll take it.
[00:43:19]  So I said, all right, Marty ducked.
[00:43:21]  So I went out and I said, you know, what I feel the truth is, which is that alcohol is a social lubricant.
[00:43:27]  It lets you spend time with other people.
[00:43:30]  As long as you're not by yourself, it's a reasonable excuse.
[00:43:32]  In places where people live a long time, they often use alcohol as an excuse to bond.
[00:43:36]  Coffee works too, by the way, some kind of a ritual.
[00:43:40]  But people aren't spending time with each other.
[00:43:44]  And I can't tell you go out and play, but especially for young folks, there's so many barriers to them meeting each other that I would not procrastinate on this.
[00:43:53]  If you're listening to this podcast, you're young, you know, go out there and start looking early because you're going to make some mistakes.
[00:43:58]  And again, I'm going to come back to something we started off.
[00:44:00]  You probably won't marry the person that's perfectly made for you.
[00:44:03]  You're probably going to find the person who could be perfect for you.
[00:44:05]  And it's a little different.
[00:44:07]  Now we're going to go to the famous section of Would You Rather?
[00:44:10]  Oh, I was dreading this moment.
[00:44:12]  Would you rather survive only on airport food for a month or copy Bobby Kennedy and only eat red meat and fermented vegetables for a year?
[00:44:20]  I want you both to answer.
[00:44:21]  Go ahead.
[00:44:22]  A year?
[00:44:23]  A year of fermented vegetables and red meat.
[00:44:26]  I haven't eaten meat in 50 years.
[00:44:28]  Go with the airport.
[00:44:30]  Some people are probably going to be living in an airport.
[00:44:32]  I mean, like the Tom Hanks guy who was trapped in the airport.
[00:44:35]  I would definitely go with Bobby.
[00:44:37]  I've done it for a while.
[00:44:38]  If it wasn't for the fact that some restaurants, you can't do it.
[00:44:40]  But it is an exclusively red meat diet, which Jordan Peterson also is on.
[00:44:45]  And these folks, by the way, both of them have stayed with us.
[00:44:47]  So when they're with us, we have those same routines.
[00:44:49]  I've learned how they do it.
[00:44:51]  If you actually plan ahead, it's very doable, and you will probably feel better than you feel now.
[00:44:57]  Would you rather your spouse fix everything you do or improve every story you tell?
[00:45:03]  Well, I got the second one for free.
[00:45:05]  I get that already.
[00:45:06]  See, in my house, the prosecution never rests.
[00:45:09]  She just comes after me and improves the story.
[00:45:11]  So I'll take the fixed things because I don't have that right now.
[00:45:15]  Oh, you're saying I'm not fixing everything?
[00:45:16]  You are fixing it also.
[00:45:17]  She's doing both.
[00:45:18]  See?
[00:45:20]  She just answered for me.
[00:45:23]  Would you rather age mentally but stay physically young forever or age physically but keep the sharp mind and endless energy?
[00:45:33]  For maybe getting neither.
[00:45:34]  No, honey, you know the answer to this one.
[00:45:36]  There is a right answer to this.
[00:45:38]  No, we don't have it.
[00:45:38]  We're getting old across the board, no matter what.
[00:45:42]  I'm going with the healthy mind.
[00:45:43]  I can deal with a body that's falling apart, but a mind that's not sharp, that doesn't laugh at Lisa's jokes, doesn't understand how to fight and defend myself against Lisa and protect myself.
[00:45:53]  No, I want to be with you.
[00:45:56]  Is that what you should say for you?
[00:46:01]  I don't like any of it, and I have to surrender to the future.
[00:46:07]  I'll nurse you through old age, like I'm in the Oval Office, catching you, protecting you.
[00:46:12]  Thank you, Charlie.
[00:46:13]  Putting IVs in you.
[00:46:14]  Would you rather be stuck in traffic together for eight hours or assemble IKEA furniture together?
[00:46:19]  Oh, traffic.
[00:46:21]  Definitely traffic.
[00:46:23]  You have to be a genius to do IKEA.
[00:46:25]  I think I did do what I did.
[00:46:26]  I do the IKEA by myself.
[00:46:30]  They're diabolically clever.
[00:46:32]  They would just have to do it.
[00:46:32]  No, he has no problem.
[00:46:35]  It would be, we'd be fighting.
[00:46:36]  It would be terrible to do that together.
[00:46:38]  At least in traffic, I'll drive.
[00:46:40]  He can work on his computer.
[00:46:42]  I can put on a podcast.
[00:46:43]  No, the IKEA thing would be a disaster.
[00:46:46]  Would you rather wear a fitness track tracker that updates your ex-followers every time you have a bowel movement or one that shocks you every time you sit down for more than two minutes?
[00:46:57]  Did you write these yourself?
[00:47:01]  I'll tell you.
[00:47:02]  Would you rather have things put under your fingernail camera in your bathroom?
[00:47:08]  There's no question, I would rather have the tracker tell you about bowel movements.
[00:47:12]  I think bowel movements are underappreciated.
[00:47:15]  You can audit your health very effectively with bowel movements.
[00:47:18]  You know, he likes to talk about poop.
[00:47:19]  No, it's true.
[00:47:20]  Look, you look at the exhaust of a car, you can tell if it's working well.
[00:47:23]  Same for humans.
[00:47:24]  And you should, just a little tip for everybody.
[00:47:26]  You really should not be able to hear your poop hit the water.
[00:47:30]  So they'll be so silent.
[00:47:30]  They won't even know.
[00:47:31]  If it's hitting like a bomb and deer, like that, you're constipated.
[00:47:34]  It's not good.
[00:47:35]  You should be able to gently let it slide into the water.
[00:47:38]  As I've often said, like Greg Ligand is diving in, like right in there, and then it should not float on the surface or go to the bottom.
[00:47:45]  It should be half submerged, the right amount of fat content.
[00:47:48]  You must, and everyone looks, Katie.
[00:47:50]  Check it out tonight.
[00:47:50]  I added the track or a picture.
[00:47:52]  Quick photo for the Twitter followers.
[00:47:55]  I would make my account private.
[00:48:01]  Oh, boy.
[00:48:02]  That was the one that I said.
[00:48:03]  That's the one where she said, are you going to really ask that?
[00:48:05]  Thanks for the question.
[00:48:06]  You're welcome.
[00:48:06]  I'm glad I came today.
[00:48:08]  So what do you eat in a typical day?
[00:48:13]  There are no typical days.
[00:48:15]  I would get very bored if I ate the same thing every day.
[00:48:18]  I do like a cappuccino in the morning, and I'm not a breakfast person.
[00:48:23]  I've never liked breakfast food.
[00:48:24]  I like a lunch.
[00:48:26]  I'll do a salad or a sandwich.
[00:48:28]  Or actually, if it's my ideal day, I'm going to yellow and getting a falafel for lunch.
[00:48:33]  Oh, really?
[00:48:34]  Yeah.
[00:48:34]  Have you been there?
[00:48:35]  It's very good.
[00:48:35]  Oh, gosh.
[00:48:36]  Yes.
[00:48:36]  So that's in favorite.
[00:48:38]  And dinner, never, ever, ever the same thing.
[00:48:43]  What's the best thing you cook?
[00:48:45]  Spaghetti.
[00:48:47]  Meatballs?
[00:48:48]  No, no, no, no, like a Pomodoro sauce.
[00:48:50]  She's vegetarian.
[00:48:51]  Yeah.
[00:48:51]  But she can make it.
[00:48:53]  And his German chocolate cake for his birthday once a year.
[00:48:56]  My favorite thing that she makes, I think, is she makes beets with gorgonzola, which is fantastic.
[00:49:02]  So are you a vegetarian too?
[00:49:03]  No, I eat everything.
[00:49:04]  I'm the vore.
[00:49:05]  So but if she cooks it, then are you cooking meat for him?
[00:49:08]  It doesn't gross you out.
[00:49:10]  Or you're just like used to it at this point.
[00:49:12]  I just don't want to eat it.
[00:49:12]  I don't care if other people eat it.
[00:49:14]  I don't know how she cooks meat better than I would make it, or fish for that matter, or anything.
[00:49:18]  But I like to eat real food, food that comes out of the ground looking the way it looks when you eat it.
[00:49:22]  So the less processed, the realer it is.
[00:49:25]  And I do that, I think for many people listening right now, they ought to revisit even the timing of their meals.
[00:49:31]  Because more than what you eat is when you eat.
[00:49:33]  So there really doesn't, there's not a good biological reason you have breakfast.
[00:49:37]  I love breakfast.
[00:49:38]  I know, but our ancestors would.
[00:49:39]  I don't eat like, I would prefer to skip lunch and eat like a good breakfast.
[00:49:42]  But they go, your ancestors did not wake up in the morning with a full breakfast in front of them.
[00:49:46]  They'd have to go out and hunt their breakfast.
[00:49:47]  So you're probably not supposed to eat till 10 or 11 in the morning at the earliest.
[00:49:52]  Yeah, I eat like my breakfast at 10 or 11.
[00:49:54]  That's fair.
[00:49:54]  That's fine.
[00:49:54]  But like I have like Greek yogurt, a couple scrambled eggs.
[00:49:57]  And what time do you finish dinner?
[00:49:58]  5.30.
[00:50:00]  I'm starving by the morning.
[00:50:01]  Yeah, but that's good because that means that you're basically intermittent fasting, right?
[00:50:05]  For roughly 16 hours a day, you're not eating anything.
[00:50:07]  So you're maybe asterisk and I say I have Greek yogurt sometimes before bed.
[00:50:12]  Well, that doesn't exactly count.
[00:50:13]  Well, Bobby, you know, my Secretary Kennedy is now trying to get me on this diet to eat.
[00:50:17]  Of kimchi?
[00:50:18]  Kimchi and steak.
[00:50:19]  You made our refrigerator smell so bad.
[00:50:21]  He's buying bags of steak.
[00:50:23]  He keeps it.
[00:50:24]  She puts it in Cheryl's bags and takes it to like parties.
[00:50:26]  You're eating what they're serving at a restaurant.
[00:50:28]  No, but we're not going to be able to do it.
[00:50:29]  Or you're eating what they're serving at.
[00:50:30]  I'm going with him to a restaurant and he's pulling it.
[00:50:31]  And he pulls out his little copkin.
[00:50:33]  Or yogurt.
[00:50:34]  If you're meeting with him in the office, he's just, you know, big vat.
[00:50:36]  And only certain kinds of yogurt has had to be live culture.
[00:50:39]  But he might, I gotta say, he looks like a gazelle.
[00:50:41]  I mean, he looks really good.
[00:50:43]  I mean, he's a Scott Turner of Healthy Human Reservosis.
[00:50:46]  What's one health trend you think is overhyped?
[00:50:49]  Oh, I know the answer to that.
[00:50:50]  Well, go ahead.
[00:50:50]  Gluten-free.
[00:50:52]  It's a head fake.
[00:50:53]  You don't think some people are actually likely to be.
[00:50:57]  It's not the gluten-free side.
[00:51:00]  You're taking food that naturally had gluten and you're adulterating it, processing it to pretend that it's good for you because take the gluten out.
[00:51:06]  What your real problem is, if you truly are having celiac or gluten intolerance, don't eat bread.
[00:51:11]  Or go to Italy and see if you still have it.
[00:51:13]  What's one health trend worth paying attention to?
[00:51:17]  I mentioned intermittent fasting.
[00:51:18]  Let me stick with that one because that's so easy for everyone to do.
[00:51:20]  You'll be literally tomorrow morning, Katie Miller, can change your life.
[00:51:24]  Don't force yourself to have breakfast.
[00:51:26]  Ask yourself one important question.
[00:51:27]  I'm pregnant.
[00:51:28]  I'm going to eat.
[00:51:29]  Yeah, I get to scare you.
[00:51:30]  It's not you.
[00:51:30]  I'm not talking about your life.
[00:51:31]  I'm talking about your viewers' lives.
[00:51:32]  It's not about you all the time, Katie.
[00:51:33]  My gosh.
[00:51:34]  It's about the millions of people watching.
[00:51:36]  So if you're not hungry, have a coffee or something.
[00:51:40]  If you need something to tickle your palate, but ask yourself, am I really hungry?
[00:51:43]  You'll find you probably won't be until 10 or 11.
[00:51:45]  You can train yourself, and that intermittent fasting block will dramatically help you function better, and it'll also help you lose weight.
[00:51:51]  What do you think?
[00:51:52]  I'm right there with you.
[00:51:54]  What's the most ridiculous health trend that you've ever pretended to like on TV?
[00:51:58]  Oh, my God.
[00:52:01]  Wow.
[00:52:02]  That's a great question.
[00:52:03]  Thank you.
[00:52:03]  Most ridiculous health trend.
[00:52:07]  Well, now I'm cold plunging.
[00:52:09]  I thought it was cold plunging.
[00:52:10]  I thought this is crazy.
[00:52:11]  There's no way.
[00:52:11]  But now she got us one and I'm doing it all the time.
[00:52:13]  What do you think?
[00:52:14]  But you love it.
[00:52:15]  I do love it.
[00:52:15]  That's cool.
[00:52:16]  I was thinking like the pills you used to push.
[00:52:18]  He never pushed pills.
[00:52:20]  The early days.
[00:52:21]  He would cover ones in one segment.
[00:52:24]  He would talk about whatever was being looked into, researched.
[00:52:28]  He would present the research in one segment, and then all these scammers would take it, rip it, and it would be all over the internet.
[00:52:35]  Like he was hawking this stuff.
[00:52:36]  And people still reach out to me and say, oh, is your husband selling those green coffee?
[00:52:40]  It's like, oh, my gosh, what is wrong with you?
[00:52:43]  Like, grow up.
[00:52:45]  Get a brain anyway.
[00:52:47]  What's one miracle cure you secretly regret calling a miracle?
[00:52:52]  I never called pills miracles.
[00:52:55]  I said it's a miracle that this might work or the like.
[00:52:58]  I think.
[00:53:00]  You did once say people are calling this the miracle.
[00:53:03]  You didn't say it yourself.
[00:53:03]  What was it?
[00:53:04]  It was green coffee.
[00:53:06]  Those are haunting you, clearly.
[00:53:08]  No, no, they're not.
[00:53:08]  I'll tell you what's interesting.
[00:53:10]  There's been a lot of research on, so green coffee bean has caffeine but other chemicals as well.
[00:53:16]  And one of them is associated with weight losses.
[00:53:19]  So there was a couple of trials that were done years afterwards that showed benefit of these.
[00:53:24]  I would rather take one of these GLP medications if I was going to take a real product.
[00:53:29]  But it was interesting that there were probably tools that allow people to go longer periods of time without eating that historically have been used.
[00:53:37]  And that's why a lot of these things probably have some benefit.
[00:53:39]  But listen, you can't sprinkle these on a kielbasa and expect to lose weight.
[00:53:43]  They have to be part of a holistic approach.
[00:53:45]  But that's also true for the GLP-1 drugs, the weight loss drugs.
[00:53:47]  Oh, you can sprinkle those on kielbasa.
[00:53:49]  Well, no, but you won't eat the kielbasa.
[00:53:51]  The whole point of that, this is important for the whole Maha conversation.
[00:53:55]  If you're not feeling empowered to be able to eat the right things or at least control what you eat, exercise some routine, do it first thing in the morning, some mechanism of getting to sleep.
[00:54:05]  You don't fall asleep, you have to work at it.
[00:54:07]  If you're unable to do all those things, then you can take all these medications all you want.
[00:54:10]  Yes, you'll lose weight, but it's not sustainable.
[00:54:12]  If you do those things with whatever crutch the medication might be able to offer you, that's a reasonable shot.
[00:54:18]  How do you handle practicing what you preach when it comes to wellness?
[00:54:22]  He has no effort with that whatsoever.
[00:54:25]  He doesn't even like unhealthy things.
[00:54:27]  That's annoying.
[00:54:28]  I know.
[00:54:29]  It's pretty annoying.
[00:54:31]  Like you don't ever crave some good, like McDonald's French fries in a Diet Coke.
[00:54:35]  Oh, he hates McDonald's French fries in a Diet Coke.
[00:54:37]  I would never do it.
[00:54:38]  Nobody tortured him.
[00:54:40]  Nothing.
[00:54:40]  Like Taco Bell, like good taco from the drive-through with some hot sauce on it.
[00:54:45]  You know, I played football in college, and I learned to not just respect my body, but begin to tame it.
[00:54:52]  Good pizza in New York City, like Katie.
[00:54:55]  Anything you do with people you care about that's not dangerous is good for you.
[00:55:00]  Sitting down at a dinner with people that you love and having a fun time with alcohol and pizza from whatever place, that's all fine.
[00:55:07]  We do that.
[00:55:08]  That's not the issue.
[00:55:09]  The question is, what is your default?
[00:55:10]  Like, what do you naturally do when no one's looking?
[00:55:13]  And, you know, if you're having alcohol for breakfast, there's a problem there, right?
[00:55:17]  If you're binge eating pizza at 11 o'clock at night because you're lonely, you're looking for love in all the wrong places.
[00:55:22]  So, you know, I think that there's a different question.
[00:55:24]  Would I do those things?
[00:55:25]  Yes, German chocolate cake is what I adore eating at my birthday, which happens once a year, like most people.
[00:55:31]  So, you know, but I would not go craving it and sort of batch ordering it and storing it.
[00:55:36]  Many Americans are now replacing alcohol with THC gummies and social tonics.
[00:55:40]  Do you think we'll eventually see long-term health consequences from cannabis use the way we have with alcohol, or are the risks fundamentally different?
[00:55:47]  Anything that's strong enough to help you is strong enough to hurt you.
[00:55:51]  So, yes, there are going to be consequences.
[00:55:52]  We already know that some of the high-dose hemp and CBD is a problem.
[00:55:57]  What's your go-to comfort food that you refuse to give up?
[00:56:02]  Nothing.
[00:56:03]  Well, no, I love Berry's yogurt.
[00:56:06]  I know it doesn't sound like a comfort food, but I love because Berry's yogurt have a lot of carbohydrates in them, obviously.
[00:56:13]  And protein and fat, the Greek yogurt and whole fat.
[00:56:16]  There's no way you consider it.
[00:56:17]  Like, that's definitely my comfort food, 100%.
[00:56:19]  But, like, it's not.
[00:56:20]  I love it.
[00:56:21]  The two of you, the same.
[00:56:23]  I do mine with like my every night is Greek yogurt, some like homemade granola, frozen wild blueberries, and just a few dark chocolate.
[00:56:32]  Now we're talking, now we're talking, Katie Miller.
[00:56:34]  But the frozen wild blueberries are like the kicker.
[00:56:36]  Exactly.
[00:56:37]  Because it creates a crime.
[00:56:38]  Yes.
[00:56:38]  But batch buy them from Maine.
[00:56:41]  Put, you know, freeze them up.
[00:56:42]  And this, well, if you haven't thought about this, this is golden advice.
[00:56:45]  And this is kind of stuff.
[00:56:46]  You can't go wrong with this advice.
[00:56:47]  Okay, perfect.
[00:56:49]  What's the worst food you could buy at a grocery store?
[00:56:52]  Oh, geez, pretty much anything processed.
[00:56:56]  Like the cheese spreads that aren't even cheese.
[00:56:59]  Like they don't look.
[00:56:59]  Anything.
[00:57:02]  They look like cheese, but there's no actually cheese in them.
[00:57:04]  That stuff I wouldn't get.
[00:57:05]  Did you ever regret getting roasted for doing the crudité at the grocery store?
[00:57:08]  Oh, yes.
[00:57:09]  I didn't know what that word meant until the show.
[00:57:11]  That's not really.
[00:57:13]  I'm on the show.
[00:57:14]  Exactly.
[00:57:14]  Okay, crudité this.
[00:57:16]  The food stylist comes in there and they put the broccoli perfectly next to the cauliflower.
[00:57:19]  And I'm saying, what is that?
[00:57:20]  This crudité?
[00:57:21]  So it looks like cauliflower.
[00:57:22]  No, no, crudité is like the whole thing together.
[00:57:24]  That's how I. You think I learned that word in the OR?
[00:57:26]  We don't talk about that.
[00:57:27]  We talk about, you know, saphetous vein resections and, you know, different ways.
[00:57:31]  I like a good crudetae.
[00:57:32]  Yes.
[00:57:33]  Who doesn't?
[00:57:33]  I love good crudetae.
[00:57:36]  What's your workout routine?
[00:57:38]  So I do your.
[00:57:39]  I really want Lisa to answer this one.
[00:57:40]  Oh, you got tickets.
[00:57:41]  Oh, oh, well, it's not, it's not dissimilar from his.
[00:57:44]  His.
[00:57:44]  We have a Peloton in our apartment, so we have to take turns.
[00:57:49]  He goes first.
[00:57:50]  He does yoga for half an hour and then jumps on the Peloton.
[00:57:52]  Then he leaves for the office, and I get on the Peloton.
[00:57:56]  So what do you do now that he's gone all day?
[00:57:59]  I'm supposed to be writing my dissertation, so hopefully.
[00:58:02]  You're getting your PhD.
[00:58:03]  When do you expect to get it?
[00:58:05]  I'm done with my dissertation.
[00:58:06]  I have a year left.
[00:58:08]  I'm getting my PhD in Jungian psychology.
[00:58:10]  How long have you been working on that?
[00:58:12]  It's been five years.

=== A PhD in Jungian Psychology (07:08) ===

[00:58:13]  What made you want to do it?
[00:58:15]  Oh, that's a longer question.
[00:58:17]  I've always been somewhat interested in Jung, kind of circled Jung from a distance.
[00:58:23]  And then when Jordan Peterson got sick first time, I thought, I need to learn this myself because I won't be able to listen to him talk about Jung.
[00:58:35]  And he got better, thankfully.
[00:58:37]  But I really, really loved studying Jung.
[00:58:42]  You're doing the honey.
[00:58:44]  The young is important because of the archetypal stories that drive our understanding of the world around us.
[00:58:49]  These are the stories of the Bible, but also the stories of your family.
[00:58:51]  He's giving my stiel.
[00:58:52]  Yes.
[00:58:53]  Tell the story, my gosh.
[00:58:54]  Being in entertainment was my primary love, other than my husband, is storytelling.
[00:58:58]  And I wanted to understand storytelling from an archetypal level and had studied Joseph Campbell when I was younger and wanted to go to the next level.
[00:59:06]  That was, yeah.
[00:59:08]  And how have you remained like committed time-wise to doing that while there's so much else going on in your life?
[00:59:13]  Very poorly.
[00:59:17]  It's a juggling act always, because there's a lot going on.
[00:59:20]  It's proof you can literally do it all should you want to do it.
[00:59:22]  You can't do it all.
[00:59:24]  Well, that's not true.
[00:59:25]  You can do it all, but not all of it well.
[00:59:28]  I mean, there's only 100%, right?
[00:59:30]  You can cut it up in as many pieces as you want.
[00:59:34]  But you have to prioritize.
[00:59:35]  Some things are more important than others.
[00:59:38]  What's a conspiracy theory that you believe in?
[00:59:41]  I can't answer that.
[00:59:42]  There are just way too many of them.
[00:59:45]  Go through like your top three.
[00:59:46]  No, you answer that.
[00:59:47]  So we're at dinner with Secretary Lutnik at his house.
[00:59:52]  And Marco, back to Marco, starts talking about something that actually is an area that I have a tremendous amount of interest.
[00:59:58]  His game plan was to get...
[01:00:00]  No, he was a joke.
[01:00:01]  It was just a joke.
[01:00:02]  He's just not serious at all.
[01:00:04]  This was Marco's sense of humor.
[01:00:06]  We had been on a trip to Arizona on Air Force One, and he wanted the plane to land for just 10 minutes, not do anything, just land for 10 minutes and take off.
[01:00:15]  And the press pool in the back would go crazy, thinking some incredibly dangerous alien device had been loaded onto the plane.
[01:00:25]  And we were just joking about what impact it would have on the world as people try to make sense of this.
[01:00:30]  So that is actually an area I do have some concerns about.
[01:00:35]  It's statistically unlikely we're the only sentient beings in the universe.
[01:00:39]  What do the other ones look like?
[01:00:40]  Are they watching us?
[01:00:42]  Are they not actually at our level?
[01:00:44]  That's something that I do spend quite a bit of time.
[01:00:47]  I don't think it'd be plausible that we're the only, only thinking creatures out there.
[01:00:53]  Yeah, my biggest one was, and it's not even a conspiracy anymore, was the idea that a bat in the pangolin couldn't possibly actually have produced, you know, COVID-19.
[01:01:03]  But that was, I don't think that's a conspiracy theory anymore.
[01:01:06]  No, it's accepted as fact.
[01:01:09]  What's your biggest pet peeve?
[01:01:12]  Cowardice.
[01:01:14]  It really, especially cowardice when there's a performative element to it.
[01:01:21]  Who's the biggest coward at CMS?
[01:01:23]  I actually don't think we have any.
[01:01:25]  I wouldn't, I mean, I'm so, we are so careful and thoughtful.
[01:01:29]  I spend more time working on personnel.
[01:01:31]  My job, Katie, very clear, simply stated, is hire the smartest people on the planet who want to work in CMS and make sure they don't kill each other.
[01:01:37]  That's my job description.
[01:01:39]  And they just will go out and do stuff that's incredibly sophisticated in earnest ways.
[01:01:43]  But we just from day one, I don't, you serve the president.
[01:01:48]  I am the president's ambassador to this organization.
[01:01:51]  I'm supposed to do what he would do if he understood this business.
[01:01:55]  Do the same to me.
[01:01:56]  That means your loyalty is not to me.
[01:01:58]  It's to the president.
[01:01:59]  If I'm doing something wrong, you tell me to my face so I can deal with it.
[01:02:02]  Because I'm probably not doing it on purpose.
[01:02:04]  And I think that is a cultural issue.
[01:02:07]  And if they're cowards, they're certainly not making it evident to me.
[01:02:11]  When's the last time you talked to Oprah?
[01:02:13]  Oh, it's been a while.
[01:02:15]  Has she said anything to you since you decided to run or do any of this?
[01:02:18]  We talked the right when I was deciding to announce.
[01:02:23]  I wanted to let her know that I was going to announce.
[01:02:26]  And she agreed to stay out of the race.
[01:02:28]  I said, I don't need you to endorse me.
[01:02:29]  I don't want you against me.
[01:02:30]  I don't want to have to attack you.
[01:02:31]  You have someone that I, a friendship that I've treasured who've been incredibly helpful in my life and give me great advice and my business partner.
[01:02:38]  You know, we built a show together.
[01:02:39]  We were partners that whole process.
[01:02:42]  And so it's been difficult since then, I bet, because obviously she, I'm sure, gets attacked by partisan folks saying she gave me a start.
[01:02:51]  And if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be up here doing whatever I'm doing to, in my opinion, helping the country do better.
[01:02:57]  I asked JD these two questions.
[01:02:59]  Is a hot dog a sandwich?
[01:03:02]  Not really.
[01:03:03]  The Earl of Sandwich did not contemplate a hot dog.
[01:03:05]  JD, but how do you say that?
[01:03:07]  Wait, did JD think it was a sandwich?
[01:03:09]  He said no.
[01:03:10]  I don't think it's a sandwich.
[01:03:11]  You know, JD and I campaigned together, you know.
[01:03:13]  We're the same cycle.
[01:03:14]  And I remember I met him actually at a Trump rally.
[01:03:17]  Eating a hot dog.
[01:03:18]  Not eating a hot dog.
[01:03:20]  Does pineapple belong on pizza?
[01:03:22]  No, of course not.
[01:03:23]  Why are you kidding me?
[01:03:24]  What kind of question is that?
[01:03:25]  That's not a good question.
[01:03:26]  No, please.
[01:03:27]  All right, and so we close the pod with the same question.
[01:03:31]  If you could host a dinner party with three people, dead or alive, who's sitting at the table, and what are you eating?
[01:03:37]  We have the same answer for this one.
[01:03:40]  Oh, I know who I want, for sure.
[01:03:42]  Who?
[01:03:43]  The kids.
[01:03:44]  Yeah, but we have four, so whichever three are available.
[01:03:47]  So which one are you kicking out?
[01:03:48]  No, they're all coming.
[01:03:50]  I'll stay home if we can only get the four kids.
[01:03:53]  Definitely our kids.
[01:03:54]  And what are you eating?
[01:03:57]  What do you want?
[01:03:59]  I'm cooking.
[01:03:59]  He's eating.
[01:04:00]  Okay.
[01:04:01]  Probably pesto pasta.
[01:04:02]  Okay.
[01:04:03]  And I'm thinking, Lisa does such a great job taking such simple foods and wrapping them in something that's more of a picnic than a meal.
[01:04:11]  And what's more important than what we're eating is what we're not doing, which is spending time on social media or on our phone or anything else that pulls us apart.
[01:04:18]  Human connection, I'll come back to that.
[01:04:20]  We would demand that of the kids.
[01:04:21]  I need them to not tell me when I ask them, how does school go?
[01:04:25]  Nothing.
[01:04:26]  And I know that's the answer that's convenient and easy to get away, but I do push our kids to answer.
[01:04:31]  What's really happening in your life?
[01:04:33]  I'm not here as an accoutrement.
[01:04:36]  Your parents, your mom and I are the main course.
[01:04:38]  So come enjoy.
[01:04:41]  Thank you for doing this.
[01:04:42]  Thank you.
[01:04:43]  Congratulations.
[01:04:44]  Thank you.
[01:04:44]  By the way, Psyche, since I get to say it now, is you can't get back at me.
[01:04:46]  Watching them babysit their kids is a marvelous phenomenon.
[01:04:49]  We've enjoyed it, witnessed it many times.
[01:04:52]  We've had life-saving adventures pulling kids out of jacuzzis.
[01:04:55]  But I must say, I got to, you know, the president says this.
[01:04:58]  I don't think people really believe it.
[01:04:59]  He's not kidding.
[01:04:59]  Stephen is an incredibly sensitive person.
[01:05:03]  I just watch him with the kids.
[01:05:04]  He picks up on subtle clues.
[01:05:05]  He actually listens to his wife.
[01:05:08]  It's hard not to listen to kids.
[01:05:09]  I'm telling you on that.
[01:05:11]  Good luck.
[01:05:12]  Thanks for watching this episode of the Katie Miller Podcast.
[01:05:15]  We're 6 p.m. Tuesdays every week.
[01:05:17]  Thanks for watching this episode with Mehmed Oz and Lisa.
[01:05:20]  We'll see you Tuesday Nights.