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Dec. 18, 2024 - Know More News - Adam Green

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Pagan Influence on Christmas and Christ with Gnostic Informant | Know More News w/ Adam Green

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	What's up, guys?
	Adam Green here with No More News.
	How are you all doing today?
	Tuesday, December 17th, 2024.
	We just got started with the intro Christmas music, and we have a Christmas special today.
	Another huge guest for you guys.
	Tonight, we have a huge YouTuber who's interviewing some of the top biblical scholars in the world.
	He is having some of the most deeply researched and viral documentaries.
	He is blowing up on YouTube.
	I've been watching him for years on YouTube.
	We had big debates hosted by Lev over at Break the Rules, and Uber Boyo had us on to debunk and disprove the Old Testament and New Testament, the Bible.
	And he is here today to discuss a topic he's been getting very deep into and having some clashes with some of the top Christian apologists on pagan influence on Christmas and on Christianity.
	Everybody, welcome.
	Very excited to have here for the first time on No More News, Mr. Gnostic Informant Neil.
	What's up, Neil?
	How you doing?
	Oh, you're on mute.
	Oh, you're on mute.
	His audio was working a minute ago.
	Still on mute.
	Check your audio setting or something happen.
	Oh, I see.
	He's going mute on and off.
	No, I'm not hearing anything.
	Uh-oh.
	Hold on.
	Still don't hear you.
	I see the mutes going on and off.
	Maybe check your audio setting.
	It's really weird because I was.
	Can you hear me?
	Okay, he can.
	I was just hearing him the whole way before we started.
	Audio.
	Maybe let's hang up and call back and see if that does something.
	We'll hang up and call back and see how that works.
	Gonna be a huge show.
	He's been doing a lot of really interesting stuff, debunking the Torah, the age of the Torah, as well as yeah, now we hear you.
	I didn't change any settings.
	I don't know what happened.
	That was weird.
	Yeah, that's weird.
	So what's up?
	You still heard the intro, though, right?
	Yeah.
	Cool.
	Well, by the way, thanks for taking the time.
	This topic is crazy because there are actual scholars in the field who are pushing this narrative about the calculation theory.
	And there's three articles in particular that they're talking about.
	One of them is from a scholar named Stephen Highmans from I think 2011, something like that.
	And then a couple of years later, another scholar, Peter No theft, wrote about these possible calculations that could have happened in the third century, and another one by Schmidt.
	Anyways, basically, what they put forth in these articles is very speculative saying that it was possible that Christians could have calculated December 25th before Solindictus.
	Now, people have taken that and ran with it and say, this proves that Christianity is this pure, unadulterated festival.
	And some even go as far as say they'll say Solindictus copied Christianity.
	Even though those actual scholars that wrote these articles themselves are like, no, no, no, no, no.
	Be very cautious in how you interpret this.
	They could have calculated.
	We only have two texts that indicate that they might have calculated it.
	There's no text, for example, that's explicitly says Christ was born on December 25th until the middle of the fourth century, way after Aurelian, way after Solindictus.
	So even if they did calculate it, it has nothing to do with pagans being influenced by them because they wouldn't have known about it.
	You see what I'm saying?
	So I just want to get that out the way real quick.
	So people think they have scholarship on their side because of these three articles.
	But I even talked to Nothath yesterday.
	I recorded with him that I'm going to put a video out soon.
	And he's like, no, they're wrong.
	They're wrong.
	Christians are definitely following the cultural trend, which is solstices.
	Solindvictus was doing it at the same time.
	But this was already a thing Mithra is doing since the second century.
	There's Mithraums dedicated to Mithras on the summer solstice, on the day of the summer solstice.
	So we already have evidence that this was already a thing.
	But my biggest, we can get into this, and I want to hear your thoughts.
	My biggest thing is, forget about December 25th altogether, because the earliest Christ's birthday is the Epiphany, which is on January 6th.
	The oldest source we have, they started, even to this day, some churches, still Orthodox, Coptic, Syriac churches, still celebrate the birthday of Christ on January 6th, not December 25th.
	That particular date is, I think, 100% influenced by the Dionysian winter midwinter celebrations called the Theodosia.
	But we can get into that in a little bit.
	So is it Theodosia, and then it's also Saturnalia?
	Yeah, Theodosia is the midwinter ancient Greek midwinter celebrations.
	Because in ancient Greece, the cronia was in the midsummer.
	The cronia is the Greek version of Saturnalia.
	They did theirs in midsummer.
	The Romans adopted the cronia, but they did theirs in the midwinter.
	But in midwinter in ancient Greece, they still had sort of a festive season that you find in Saturnalia, but it was dedicated to Dionysus.
	And there's different names for it.
	One of them is the Haloa.
	That's the oldest one we find.
	That's in Eleusis.
	Then you have the Linnea, which means like wine press.
	Haloah means threshing floor.
	There's another one called a rural Dionysia.
	That happens in Athens.
	Rural Dionysia.
	You mentioned wine press.
	We see the theme of wine press in the Old Testament quite a bit and in Revelation also.
	And that's from beginning to end.
	So is that that's a Greek thing?
	Yeah, they're absolutely.
	John's gospel is part of the Johannine collection, which is part of Revelation.
	Whoever wrote those texts, we don't know if it really was a guy named John or not.
	Let's say it was.
	Let's just say John.
	John is writing this for a Greek audience that are into this Dionysian stuff.
	You can tell by John's gospel.
	By the way, the epiphany comes from John's gospel.
	The epiphany is the birth or the baptism of Christ.
	There's no birth in John.
	John's gospel doesn't have a birth scene.
	It starts off with the baptism.
	Then John 2 is a wine miracle, wedding at Cana, right off the bat.
	It's the first thing Jesus does in John is do a wine miracle.
	In these winter celebrations for Dionysus, they also have an epiphany festival at the same time of the year attached to water from wine miracles.
	There's five primary sources about Dionysus turning water into wine at a festival on January 5th.
	Is the Eucharist and the idea of having like a ritual with wine also, like the Last Supper, Paul's Lord's Supper?
	You think that came from Dionysus something?
	That is standard.
	That is standard mystery religion initiation.
	So you were, there's a source from Plutarch where he says that Zoroaster invented the Eucharist.
	He uses the word Eucharist.
	And then Elizabethian mysteries, you had a drink.
	You drink the Ku Kaeon, which is like a mixture of different substances that we don't know exactly what it is.
	And then you ate bread too to get initiated.
	And the Kukaion was literally thought to be blood of Dionysus in the same sense as you're drinking the blood of Christ.
	So that's very much, and that's, we're talking about, this is where the Haloah festival takes place, that midwinter celebration of the coming of Dionysus, Eleusis.
	This is the same cult that does that, the one you're talking about.
	That one's in October.
	The midwinter one is the one I'm talking about, the Haloah.
	But I want to get back real quick on Revelation because not only is John's gospel very Dionysian, where Jesus is called the true vine only in John.
	Revelation, which is also a Johannine text, has this imagery of Jesus being a horse rider.
	And I forgot the exact words in Greek, but it translates to the orge of the wine press, which is translated as the wrath of the wine press.
	And in Thrace and in Phrygia, which is modern-day Turkey and modern-day Bulgaria, those two places, they depicted Sebasius, which is Dionysus to them, as a horse rider.
	And he's like always killing snakes and shit.
	It's like the Jesus in Revelation.
	So whoever wrote Revelation?
	Yeah.
	And Revelation is written to seven churches where?
	In Asia Minor.
	Where Sebasius was worshipped.
	So they're trying to capture the minds and hearts of those people by using Dionysian imagery, applying it to Jesus.
	It's so clear once you actually know the sources of the classics.
	You can't stop seeing it.
	I've also heard the theory that Paul's Lord's Supper could have been developing on the Melchizedek idea because Melchizedek came out with wine and bread also.
	So do you think that they got that in Melchizedek with wine and bread from Dionysus also, possibly?
	Yeah, Melchizedek tradition is interesting because that comes from the Hebrew side, Melech Tzedek, which means king of righteousness.
	There's a god from that part of the world, from the Galilee-Phoenicia region, because that was all part of one big...
	So that's a late addition to Israel.
	That's part of Phoenicia.
	And in that region, they worship this God Ashman, who's this God called the oiled one.
	Or Shmun means eight.
	Shmone means to oil.
	So Eshmun means it's like a pun.
	He's the eighth son of the God called Melchzedech, the king of righteousness, Zadok, or the king.
	He's also a king.
	So he's the Melek Sidik.
	So Eshman is the son of this God who's called Melchizedek.
	And Jesus is from the line of Melchizedek, right?
	So Jesus is the oiled one, the Messiah, just like Eshman is.
	And then if you actually look at the mythology of Eshman, he's basically a crossover between Asclepius and the god of Donus or Attis.
	He's a guy that dies, gets resurrected by the goddess Astarte, and then becomes a healer where he could raise the dead and stuff.
	In fact, one more thing on this Eshman character.
	This is crazy.
	The pool of Bethesda.
	They found this place.
	It's a real place.
	But guess what it was?
	Guess what it used to be before it got buried and out of use?
	It was a temple of Eshman.
	That's what it was.
	It was an Asclepian.
	They called it an Asclepian temple.
	But in Hebrew, they would have said Eshman temple.
	That's what Ashman means in the Hebrew.
	The reason why we know this, we found Punic tablets side by side with Latin tablets in Italy.
	So somebody in Italy was translating a text about Eshman, and it was Eshman and Astarte.
	And it was about Eshman dying, too, just by chance.
	It had the God Ashman dying, and then Astarteus mourning over him, like Mary mourns over Jesus.
	And then on the Latin side, it's Venus and Asclepius.
	So that's how we know this is a one-for-one sort of combination or translation or whatever.
	We've got a big super chat from Snap Out of It for 50 says, Hail Goy Shiach, strength and honor to the chat.
	Thank you, Snap Out of it.
	Been a while since I've seen you here.
	Scalunda for 25 says, Thanks for putting this show together, Adam Skull.
	Yes, it's have to do a Christmas special.
	Last year, I did a whole special just on how all of the nativity Jesus birth story is all from scripture, all made up from scripture and fictional.
	And now we're going to do the pagan parallels because I honestly haven't researched that deep that angle into it.
	But I know Neil has been very passionate digging into that topic.
	And you've been having documentaries clashing with some of these Christian apologists and biblical scholars on the topic.
	It's a very controversial issue.
	Like we saw this big thread from Catholic says Christmas is not pagan, but every year people claim that it is.
	It is true.
	Every year you see the people come out and go, oh, Saturnalia, and Christmas is pagan.
	It has nothing to do with Jesus.
	And the Christians co-opted it and stole it and absorbed these pagan myths.
	And then you have the debunkers also.
	And it's just two opposite sides or two extreme opposites.
	Where on one side, it's completely 100% a secret pagan festival.
	And Santa Claus is just Saturn and Jesus is Mithros, right?
	And that's complete nonsense.
	Let's be honest about the evidence.
	The other extreme side is that Christmas is completely pure and undefiled by any cultural milieu at all.
	Like it's just in a vacuum by itself, and there's no influences at all.
	Both of them are equally crazy and wrong because there's a lot of influences going into Christmas over the centuries, even late in the game when Christmas Christianity starts to spread into Germany.
	Odin starts to make Odin start to influence Santa Claus.
	People think that's nonsense.
	It's not nonsense.
	People, scholars have been pointing this out.
	The oldest traditions about Santa Claus, when he was just Saint Nick, St. Nick feast, which was the December 6th.
	There's no stories of him riding on a sled with reindeer and mistletoe and all this stuff you find in Norse mythology, like all these themes from Norse mythology.
	That comes in like after the 16th century, way later.
	And Odin, Odin's stories actually predate that.
	Yeah, I've noticed online, definitely there's like there's TikTokers that are lazy and conspiratorial and do bad research and get stuff way wrong and get things to which it's easy to debunk.
	But then you have the apologists also will deny a bunch of stuff that is true.
	So it really is the two extremes and both are extremely biased in some ways.
	But was there anything that you wanted to start off with or should we just start going through this thread?
	It's like 15,000 likes.
	We can start going right through this if you want.
	Okay, so he says, here's a thread debunking all that nonsense about Christianity being pagan.
	First one isn't it?
	Isn't it amazing how much praise you get for this for defending Christianity from cultural influences?
	You get, yeah, the whole, everyone cheers for that.
	Why?
	And Christians won't even look at the thread.
	They'll just go, oh, it's protecting Jesus.
	Click like.
	Click like, right.
	Okay.
	First one says, Yeah, Christmas is the Roman feast Saturnalia, honoring the Roman god Saturn from December 17th to 23rd.
	Christmas on December 25th doesn't even over.
	Oh my god.
	Isn't this just because they changed the calendars?
	Well, no.
	First of all, when they switched the calendars, they just kept the dates of Saturnalia as they were.
	So if they really would have moved it, Saturnalia would have said it would have moved back farther to the left.
	It would have been like the 14th to the 21st.
	So he's right about the dates not lining up.
	But this is, just think about how low IQ this is.
	Nobody is saying that the dates matter.
	What people are saying is the festive season of gift giving, of greenery, of shutting down businesses.
	The Senate would shut down.
	There's no government activity during the month of December in Rome.
	It was just like how we are right now in America.
	We shut everything down in December from Christmas Eve through New Year's.
	Everything's shut down.
	But it's not just Saturnalia.
	There was another festival that happens after the winter solstice called the Calends.
	It's a feast of the god Janice, the two-headed time god.
	And it would go on to the 3rd of January.
	And sometimes it would go on to the 5th of January, just in time for this Theodosia, which is interesting because Christmas, the Christmas season has a 12 days of Christmas theme, where after Christmas, after December 25th, till the epiphany at January 6th, there's a 12 days theme.
	So it's not just Saturnalia that we're looking at.
	It's the whole month of December as a whole.
	So the Calends, the winter solstice, and Saturnalia as a whole brought forth this sort of season of everyone, it's the middle of the winter.
	You can't do any, you're not doing agricultural work.
	You're shutting everything down.
	So everyone just kind of feasts and drinks their wine that they sort up for the year.
	And they eat all their fruits that they sort of for the year.
	They decorate the houses and greenery and they put wreaths up and they light fires and they light sigils, candles, and they give gifts.
	And everyone's equal for a week.
	It's kind of, that's, by the way, the idea of people becoming equal for a week, that's Saturn.
	Saturn was the god of equality.
	He was an agricultural god.
	But during the golden age of Saturn, there was no hierarchy.
	Everyone was equal.
	Everyone had abundant wealth.
	And that's how, and then after the golden age is the silver age and so forth.
	But that's the idea of turning the idea of the Saturnalia season was to return to the golden age for a week.
	And so that still happened late, way later in Germany, in France, and in England, they had what's called a lord of misrule.
	And it's the idea is it's basically the same as the king of Saturnalia.
	The king of Saturnalia, they chose one person for the week to be the king for the week.
	And he was usually from the lower echelons of society, usually a slave or something.
	And they would throw a crown on his head, and he was the mock king.
	It was funny.
	It was like, oh, you're the king.
	Like they did to Jesus, too.
	Exactly.
	And by the way, people pointed this out because there's a mock king human sacrifice ritual that goes on in Babylon.
	And there are writers who say the Babylonians.
	And there are writers in the third, Aristotle was one of them.
	And Theophrastus.
	I'm sorry, not Aristotle.
	Theophrastus, Aristotle's successor.
	He writes about that they were doing this in honor of Saturn, Kronos.
	So there's a Saturn link right there with human sacrifice and mock king stuff.
	This is all it all comes full circle.
	But check this out.
	So that happened all the way back in the Roman Republic days, all the way through the Roman Empire days until I think there's even evidence of this going on all the ways to like the fifth and sixth century.
	And then there's an 11th century text in Byzantine, in the Byzantine sources That they didn't call it Saturnalia anymore.
	They called it the Brumalia, but they were still doing all this midwinter stuff, but they just secularized it so the Christians wouldn't get mad about honoring other gods.
	But all the way in Germany, in France, in England, they call it the Lord of misrule.
	It's the exact same thing.
	They choose someone from the lower echelons of society to be a mock king of the day, Lord of Misrule.
	So people are like, that's so specific.
	You don't find anything like this in any other cults and any other festivities.
	There's no Vedic tradition that does this.
	There's no African tradition that does this.
	This is very specific.
	It's in the same week of the year.
	So obviously, this is borrowing from Saturnalia.
	So then the pushback is: well, how did it get all the way from Italy to France and England?
	The response to that is super easy.
	We have archaeological data.
	For example, we have a first-century papyri from the city in Northumbria where Hadrian's Wall was, all the way in the farthest reaches of the north that says, oh, by the way, so-and-so, can you get me some berries for the Saturnalia this week?
	Which indicates Saturnalia wasn't just in the city of Rome.
	It was all over the Roman Empire.
	Every major city, they celebrated Saturnalia.
	So that's another thing they'll try to argue: is they say, how did it get all the way to England?
	Well, we know it was celebrated in England.
	So that, I think that, I think I just tore that to shreds.
	So just because it's not the exact same day, it ends on the 23rd and not the 25th, even though it has the gift-giving, the wreaths, the candles, the fake king.
	The fake king, like Jesus, like in the Jesus story as well, too.
	So funny how he doesn't address any of that, just that it's not on the exact same day.
	And wasn't there some changes in calendar also that could throw something like that off of it?
	Well, yeah, like I said, you have the Calends Fest right after the Saturnalia, which, by the way, if you look at what they did during the Calends, they still decorated the greenery.
	They still brought out presents.
	They still had things shut down.
	So you can't just take Saturnalia and put it in its own vacuum.
	You have to look at the whole month of December as a whole.
	And there's no indication in the sources that the month of December ever changed from 200 BC because they started Saturnalia after the Hannibal defeat.
	Hannibal beat the Romans and they just, for some reason, they just went into a, let's have a feast of Saturnalia.
	I'm not sure why that happened.
	Anyways, but that's when the sources say they started doing Saturnalia.
	From 217 BCE all the way till today, there's no indication that the month of December was ever not a festive season, ever.
	So Christianity has nothing to do with December being festive.
	It always was like this.
	They just continued.
	They just continued the tradition and just didn't stop doing it.
	That's all they did.
	So the next one, he's, oh, I have a super chat.
	A lot of sense says, Adam, just for your information, in 345, Liberius, the bishop of Rome, declared December 25th to be the Christian holiday to celebrate Jesus' birth.
	He picked it because that was the day that the ancient Romans celebrated the birth of the sun god.
	Yeah, they never even said Jesus was born on, it's not in the Bible that he's born on the 25th.
	And they didn't start saying it till the third century.
	Is that true?
	This super chat, that's fourth century, 354.
	Yeah, right.
	This super chat makes a point that everybody will try to refute because they'll go, like those three, is the reason why I mentioned those three articles in the beginning of this episode.
	They'll cite those articles and say, but Christians calculated Hippolytus and Julius Africanus calculated December 25th all the way back in 222.
	That might be true, but it's still, this super chatter is right.
	There is no explicit mention of Christ being born on December 25th until 354.
	That's the first time in the sources there's an explicit mention of Christ being born on 354.
	And I was talking to Nothath yesterday.
	He's like the authority on this subject.
	What's that his full name?
	Who is that?
	Philip Nothaft, Carl Philip Nothaft.
	His line of work is in calendars and chronology.
	So this is what he does.
	He said, not only is 354 the first time where there's a mention of Christ being born on December 25th, but it's not until in the 360s where it actually becomes a festival and maybe even 400.
	We don't even know if it was a Christian.
	We don't even know if Christmas was a festival yet.
	They were just saying Christ was born on that day.
	But the evidence of a Christian festival doesn't come until arguably 360s, if not 400.
	So that's in 274 is when Aurelian dedicates a temple to Solindictus on December 25th.
	So you can, it's like people will try to say that there was calculations before that, but you can't argue that the Christmas feast came before Solindictus.
	It doesn't.
	And hardly anyone talks about this.
	So Solindictus on December 25th is 274.
	Christmas as a feast doesn't come until like 360, about 100 years later.
	So Solindictus as a feast predates Christmas as a feast.
	Most people don't say that.
	Most people will just go with those three articles because some one guy, think about this for a second.
	Let me explain this to you.
	I'm a random guy in my room, and I decided that I want to calculate when Christ was born.
	And let's say I'm inspired by the trends of the time, which is solstices.
	So I've come up with this calculation, and I write it in my book, December 25th, and I put it away.
	There's no DMs back then.
	There's no emails back then.
	Just because one guy wrote it in a book doesn't mean it became widespread or even known about the Christians aren't one mind.
	They're a bunch of minds that are arguing with each other.
	In fact, to prove my point, Origin, 40 years later, in 245 AD, he starts talking about how we don't celebrate birthdays in this religion.
	That's nonsense.
	Why would he say that if Christmas was already a thing?
	Not only that, Julius Tertullian, around the same time, he's writing about how horrified he is that Christians are taking part in Saturnalia and Brumalia.
	I have the source.
	If you want, we could pull it up later.
	We don't have to, but I can just tell you, Tertullian, it's a book called On Idolatry.
	And he's horrified in the third century about Christians taking part in Saturnalia.
	Now, why would he do that?
	Why would he say that if Christmas was already a thing?
	So we know for sure that Christmas as a festival isn't not until the fourth century.
	I see here Julius Africanus in 221.
	They came up with Jesus being born on December 25th because nine months before that is when they believe creation happened.
	Let me explain this for a second.
	So that is true that there are scholars who have pointed out that Julius Africanus in his works that we've lost, by the way, you don't have the original.
	So through a recovered, reconstructed text that we have to piece together through fragments, there's indications that Julius Africanus might have hinted at the thought that Jesus was born on December 25th.
	He never Explicitly writes it, though.
	He basically, so this is how it works.
	In Judaism, there was, it's not really a tradition.
	There's only two examples of it, Moses and Isaac, where people in the Talmud thought that when Moses died, he died on his birthday.
	So they go, so this is how this is how it's argued.
	Julius Africanus in 222 wrote that Jesus died on March 25th.
	Okay.
	So now you have to speculate that Africanus would have thought that Jesus not only didn't die on the day he was born, but was conceived on the day he was born.
	So if you add nine months to March 25th, you get December 25th.
	You see what I'm saying?
	So now the scholars who have brought this forth are like.
	Assuming it's exactly nine months, too.
	Yeah, you have to assume all those steps are true.
	So it's based on speculation, based on speculation, based on a lost text that we don't even have anymore.
	So it's possible that Julius Africanus made a calculation and got to December 25th.
	However, like I pointed out, this does not indicate that Christmas was a feast yet.
	Far from it.
	Like I mentioned, there's sources that come after this.
	Origin in 245, Tertullian in 230.
	This is after this.
	And they're telling us things to indicate that they have no knowledge of December 25th or let alone a Christmas feast.
	So it's very, this is a very messy topic if you think about it.
	It's very like, like some people think they assume if Julius Africanus calculated this date, then all of a sudden the next day, Christmas was a thing.
	And everyone is celebrating Christmas on December 25th.
	It's like, no, that's not how it works.
	I bet it happened the other way around.
	They had the date because of the holidays.
	And then they just went, well, what's nine months before?
	Right.
	Yeah, because they chose the summer solstice for the birth of John the Baptist.
	So they're doing this sort of cosmic solstice birth thing, which is very pagan in itself.
	That's frowned upon in Judaism to honor solstices and equinoxes.
	That's very pagan.
	But this is what they're doing.
	They're following the trends of the Mithraist.
	And by the way, another source that we have from 205 CE is called the Commentary on Daniel by Hippolytus.
	And in the manuscripts that we have, some of them say Christ was born eight days before the calendars of January, which is December 25th.
	So everyone's like, oh, we found it.
	That's 205.
	But then it turns out that the oldest manuscripts of that don't have that in there.
	It was a later interpolation, which Christians always do.
	They forge everything.
	So some zealous scholar in the 10th century, some guy who's zealous to make Christianity, you know, like Christians today do this shit.
	Pious fraud.
	No, they lie all the time, obviously.
	He found the man.
	He was in a library copying manuscripts of Hippolytus, and he decided to insert the birthday of Jesus into this text.
	It's fake.
	And then they have the chutzbah to say, and actually, they just made up Sol Invictus to try to counter Christmas, but we were first, of course.
	Just like they say the Gnostics all came to counter them, but they were first.
	I don't think so.
	This is such bullshit.
	Like, this is complete nonsense.
	I'll tell you what.
	I already kind of explained it.
	Even if we grant that.
	Look, he's citing the 204 date.
	He's citing the forgery.
	I just mentioned that it was a forgery.
	He's not even citing the 222 Africanus one, the more plausible one.
	If he would have said that, he would have been okay.
	He's citing the forgery in his post.
	That 204 text is a forgery.
	That's the commentary on Daniel.
	Now, Sol Invictus, even if we grant, let's say we grant that the calculations were done by Christians.
	Sol Invictus is a feast.
	It's widespread.
	There's no knowledge.
	There's no indication that Aurelian was paying attention to what Christians were doing, let alone one person calculation in his room somewhere.
	Like I said, the Christmas feast doesn't come until way later in the fourth century.
	Yeah, the Roman celebration was widespread, and the Christian one was very likely.
	Possibly possibly one guy writing something.
	Yeah.
	So there's no way there's no feast to copy for Romans.
	They can't copy Christmas if it doesn't exist yet.
	Or if it's not widespread, at least if it's not widespread everywhere and a threat, they're not going to make up their own whole fake celebration just to counter it.
	Right.
	And then here's how you end this whole entire thing.
	Think about this.
	What happens at the winter solstice?
	The days get longer.
	The days start to get longer after it's a birth of the sun.
	Yeah, rebirth.
	Why wouldn't Sol Invictus be born on December 25th, dummy?
	Like, there's no indication for Christ to be born on this day.
	He's not the sun.
	He's not a sun god.
	He's the light of the world.
	Right.
	So that's, yeah.
	But they, no, that's true.
	They do start to make Christ into a solar god in the fourth century.
	They start to do that.
	We got 20.
	They're doing the whole time.
	Hold on.
	We got a huge dono in from my boy, Indominably Based for 70.
	He says, great duo.
	Can't wait to listen on the replay.
	Thank you so much.
	Indomitably is epically based.
	Boleslaw for 25 has a question.
	He says, what is the most distinguishing trait of Christianity compared to other religions?
	What allowed it to, quote unquote, win against other alternatives?
	Well, the pagan religion.
	It co-ops everything.
	It co-opted their religions.
	That was one way they did it.
	And also, we're seeing an example right here.
	In the fourth century, they're co-opting all the Sol Invictus imagery onto Jesus.
	Yeah.
	And the Roman Empire made the paganism illegal after a few decades of adopting Christianity, too.
	So obviously that's having the power of the emperor.
	That's the kicker at the end.
	Because in the second century, the biggest cults were Dionysus and Ion.
	And in the second century, you start seeing Christ appearing in sources like Ion and Dionysus, like Gospel of John.
	But then in the fourth century, third century, it's Mithros and Sol Invictus that everyone's into at that time.
	That's the new trend.
	And then all of a sudden, Jesus starts to take on traits of those gods.
	This is how they do it.
	This is what they do.
	And by the way, this is right from Paul's playbook.
	In Corinthians, Paul says that it's all good if you go to a party and they're sacrificing meat to idols.
	Those idols have no power over you.
	Just go to the power.
	He's telling Christians, go and mingle with the world and do what they do.
	Don't worry about it.
	Don't worry about Moses' laws.
	We don't need those.
	That's what made Christianity so much more, made it able to grow much more than Judaism.
	Because Judaism has all these laws and stuff that no one wants to follow.
	Christianity just goes with the flow.
	Just follow it.
	Just do what they're doing.
	Just pretend that it's not, pretend it's not an idol.
	You're good.
	And then in the sixth century, the Pope Gregory, call him Pope Gregory the Great.
	I don't know why he's great, but anyways, he wrote a letter to the bishop in London.
	And he said to this bishop in London, this is in the sixth century.
	He says, do not destroy the pagan temples in London.
	Here's what I want you to do.
	He gives him specific directions.
	He tells the bishop in London to take the idol out of the temple, put a cross in there, and sprinkle it with holy water and let the pagans do what they do.
	That's what he, I'm not kidding.
	It's in Bede's Ecclesiastical History.
	Pope Gregory's letter to the bishop in London, he tells him the playbook, the Christian playbook, to take over the temples, to take the idols out, put a cross in there, sprinkle it with holy water, and now you got a new church.
	Get a new priest to work there or something.
	And look, this has been, this is not just one example.
	There was a temple of Theseus that was remodeled for a temple of St. George.
	Now, what do those two gods have in common?
	St. George is a horse rider who kills the dragon.
	Theseus, in the midst of Greek mythology, kills dragons.
	Saint Demetrius' temple was built, and his name is Demetrius, who has Demeter in the name.
	There's a sixth-century legend that says that Demetrius was visited by the goddess Demeter in a dream.
	I'm not joking.
	This is a Christian text, a Christian text that says Saint Demetrius was visited by the goddess Demeter in a dream, and she told him to worship Christ and to end the Elizinian mysteries.
	That's what they do.
	This is their playbook.
	I think the other reason that Christianity, quote-unquote, won was that they had more of an emphasis on pretending it was historical.
	Because the ancients didn't really believe their gods were historical.
	They knew they were allegorical and metaphysical.
	It was symbolic.
	It was ritualistic, symbolic.
	But because they got the Christians to believe that this was actual history and all really happened, that's more persuasive to people.
	We got another big dono in.
	You guys are so really supporting tonight.
	I love it.
	Big Mama, my mama, my sugar mama, Big Mama for 50, says Saturnalia sounds like so much fun, the Christians came along and ruined it.
	Like always.
	It was a lot of fun.
	Based on the sources, it was tons of fun.
	Yeah.
	This is the way you're talking about.
	We are no worse if we do not eat and no better if we do.
	That's Paul talking about the idols.
	Look what he says right there.
	Now about food sacrificed to idols.
	We all know we all possess knowledge.
	The word is gnosis too in Greek.
	But gnosis puffs up while love builds up.
	Those who think that they know something do not know.
	So then about eating people who sacrificed to idols, we know that an idol is nothing.
	He's basically, it's all good.
	That's nothing.
	Go to these parties.
	Go and mingle with the pagans.
	It's like he's encouraging the Gentiles and Christians to be idol worshipers still.
	Yeah, and what it really is, is they don't want to, they want Christians to be inclusive.
	They want people to get, they want trying to get people to join.
	Yeah, the nature of Christianity, the nature of Christianity is evangelical.
	He wanted pagan converts.
	He said at first, oh, you can still do your pagan stuff.
	And also, this would discourage Jews from joining Christianity as well if they're doing all the pagan food polluted to idols.
	That was a huge prohibition, especially in Dead Sea Scrolls.
	Right.
	Wow.
	This is the nature of Christianity.
	It's an evangelist type of cult.
	It's meant to stretch itself out.
	That's why in Germany, you start getting the sort of Norse Germanic style of Christianity.
	Or in Greece, it's the Greco, it's the Greek Bacchic style of Christian.
	And then in Rome, it's the Roman, you know, they have different, like each region of the world where Christianity thrives in, you can see remnants of the old cults in them.
	For example, let me give you a prime example.
	The Orthodox Church, the patriarchs, they hold a staff that looks like two serpents entwined.
	In ancient Greece, the high priest of various cults in Athens, the Aleusinian mysteries, for example, they held the same exact staff, actually.
	I've seen one myself in a museum.
	In Rome, the bishops, not the patriarchs, the bishops, they have a different staff that looks like a spiral at the end.
	It's called the lairs.
	It looks like a spiral, right?
	You've seen it before?
	Like the staff that a shepherd holds with a spiral on it.
	Well, that turns out that particular staff goes back to the pagans, too.
	The priest of Jupiter.
	What do they call them?
	I can't think of the name right now.
	Oh, Flamin Dialis and the Augurs.
	The Augurs, the Flamin Dialis, they would hold the same exact staffs.
	We have images of them on coins and everything.
	So it's funny because the Catholic Church has what looks like Roman religion staffs, and the Orthodox Church looks like it has Greek Athenian pagan staffs.
	But they're still used to them.
	It's like you could see the remnants of the old religions in Christianity.
	I mean, the Catholic Church, right?
	The Pope and the, what's the other word that was like a Greek?
	The patriarch?
	Patriarch.
	No, not the patriarch.
	What are they called?
	The Ponta Ponta.
	Pontifus Maximus?
	Pontifus Maximus.
	Yeah.
	The name of the Pope.
	It was already the Roman high priest, same name, right?
	Same name.
	Yeah, there's the title that Julius Caesar had, Pontifus Maximus, he was the highest priest in the Roman religion, is the same name that Pope Francis has today.
	Pontifus Maximus, the highest priest in Roman slash European religion.
	So here's the next one now.
	He says, with 1.5,000 likes, Christmas is the celebration of the winter solstice.
	The solstice is around December 21st, not December 25th.
	Christians pick 25th because it is nine months after Monday.
	Show this on the screen if you could.
	The Annunciation.
	Oh, sorry.
	How do they know that the Annunciation was on March 25th, though?
	They didn't.
	It doesn't say that in the Bible.
	It's in the third century source when they start figuring that out.
	That's the calculations.
	That's the calculation theory.
	So how can you pretend like this is real?
	It's not in the Bible.
	They didn't make it up until 300 years later.
	And then Christians want to be like, no, he was really born on this day.
	No, he wasn't.
	That's why, first, there's so much wrong with this post right here.
	Number one, the solstice was on December 25th.
	Julian calendar was made by Julius Caesar in the year like 47 BC.
	I can't remember, 46 BCE, a couple years before he got killed in 44 BCE.
	Julian calendar was used from 46 BCE until the 16th century, 1500s.
	And they marked the solstices as June 25th and December 25th.
	And the equinox is on March 25th and September 25th.
	What a liar.
	All I have to do is go to ChatGPT and say, what is the winter solstice in the Julian calendar?
	December 25th.
	December 25th.
	That means that when Christians decided on the birth of Christ, they knew that it was the official fixed winter solstice date for the Roman Empire set up by Julius Caesar.
	They knew this.
	This guy, Patrick Neve, is a moron for not knowing this.
	That's a fault.
	The solstice is around December 21st.
	Well, now it is.
	Total own.
	Total owners.
	That's a Gregorian calendar date, dumbass.
	Somebody's got to say this in the comments.
	You said you were in the comments here, right?
	I'm in the comments.
	You find me in there.
	Unless you got censored.
	You got censored on a road.
	It's been happening to me a lot lately.
	I've been getting shut down.
	You've seen it yourself.
	Remember, I was going viral for a response I did to Russell Brand, and all of a sudden there's no more comments allowed.
	Yeah.
	And you didn't say it.
	Yeah, I saw it.
	You sent it to me.
	I couldn't retweet it or share it.
	It was all blanked out.
	And you said nothing in there at all.
	At all.
	There's nothing crazy about it.
	I can't believe it.
	The Christians get so much defense on this thing.
	By the way, could you not find me on the responses?
	No, I didn't see it yet, but I mean, there was a lot of, I don't know how long this thread is.
	Usually following somebody, if you're following somebody, usually you can see them first, right?
	I might have just not scrolled far enough.
	But this Catholic guy, Catholicism is not for the faint-hearted comedian.
	This is fun.
	Really funny that you're going to be like, oh, own, own pagans.
	Solstice is on December 21st, not the 25th.
	Julian calendar, it was the 25th when they came up with this.
	And think about this for a second.
	For the last 500, 400 plus, 450 years, the solstice has been on December 21st.
	For 1,500 years, it was on December 25th.
	So for most of the existence of Christianity, December 25th was the winter solstice.
	I can't believe he thinks this is such a big own.
	He's a moron.
	He has no idea what he's talking about.
	Oh, look, another moron who doesn't know what the Julian calendar is.
	Nice.
	Top response on the quote tweets.
	Another one, Julian calendar.
	God, see, the apologists are just so bad.
	They don't know anything.
	Now, I want to say this because someone in the comments might call us out and say, but the Julian calendar was wrong and there was a drift.
	And by the time we got to the 1600, 1500s, they had to fix it.
	True.
	But it doesn't matter what the, it doesn't matter where the true solstice is.
	What matters is what they thought it was.
	For example, Aurelian dedicates the temple of Solenticus on December 25th because he thought it was the solstice.
	He didn't count sunlight hours in the day and go, oh, fuck, it's the 23rd this year.
	He didn't do it.
	So, like, the idea that we now have knowledge that the Julian calendar was off has no bearing on what the ancients thought.
	So I just want to shut that up real quick.
	Yeah, that's an ad hoc cope.
	It is.
	They still believed it was the 25th.
	Give me a break.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Healer Woffen says, Christianity is a sort of crypto-polytheism with all the saints they venerate.
	I think it was one of your docs, or maybe it was Myth Visions, talked to him, or maybe you were just telling me all of the parallels between pagan gods that they stole the stories to make their saints in Catholicism.
	Yeah.
	This is widely known.
	Everyone, like, they don't even fight this anymore.
	Yeah.
	That like a bunch of these fourth to like seventh century legends that they started writing.
	Like after the time Christianity was in control of all the libraries and education systems, they started writing legends about saints.
	They started writing new texts.
	I actually have a whole bunch of them right here.
	New tests are my apocrypha text about these saints.
	And a lot of them are like rewriting pagan sources, rewriting Homer, rewriting Euripides.
	It's the same.
	The Gospels like this too, though.
	So it's not new.
	They're doing the same thing that Gospels writes.
	Hijacking every pagan story.
	And they're just applying it to their saints so that they can still have these great stories and they can take credit for these great stories that the ancient pagans wrote.
	Cornpop the Bad Dude says, Hey, Adam, did you check that video concerning Constantine?
	I did watch some of it.
	I know see through it all did.
	I think it would be pretty informative right now if you checked it.
	Well, sorry, I don't think I finished all of it yet, but I still have it up in my tabs.
	Liam Jarrett says, John the Baptist is Orion.
	Summer in opposite is Ophikus, Ophikus, Ophiuchus, Ophiuchus.
	Ophuchus, the serpent-bearer, which is winter.
	Yeah, that's another thing to point out: there's an astrology, there's an astrological layer there.
	And I think there's a lot of truth to that because Ophiuchus is a healer who heals, he heals the sick, and he's a lawgiver.
	He's depicted as holding a staff with a serpent twied around it.
	There's a lot of, yeah, you can definitely apply that to the Christ, especially like the Gnostic version of Christ.
	And then Orion is his counterpart on the other side of the other side of the astrology.
	Orion is another God who's walks on water, who he's associated with Dionysus and Osiris in the late antiquity authors.
	They start to mold them all into one God, Orion, Osiris, and Dionysus.
	They're all represented by the dog star, which is the rising, the star Sirius that rises in the summertime.
	And that star gets associated with Jesus as well in later sources.
	So, yeah, this person's right, I think.
	There's some truth.
	Liam T. Jarrett says, Gnostic informant is a great guest.
	Hope he comes back more often.
	Yeah, we're going to do another one on the Torah, exposing the Torah, the other topic he's been digging really deep into.
	Yeah, how old is the Torah, really?
	Right.
	Let's see.
	Liam T. Jarrett, the million dollar question says, does Neil think Jesus was a historical person, or does he think it was a Jewish plot to ruin the Goy?
	I'm actually agnostic on this on this topic.
	I think there's if there was a guy, fine.
	The thing I'm really focused on is what is written about in the Gospels is not historical.
	Nobody in history did what happened in the Gospels.
	Well, they say even Bart Ehrman, even Bart Ehrman says, all of it's basically a myth besides the crucifixion.
	Besides the crucifixion, but don't you think that could have been made up too?
	Like, there's plenty of material for a crucifixion.
	A lot of people got crucified by Romans in the first century, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone got crucified.
	I'm actually willing to grant that that's a historical thing.
	But I'm also skeptical on saying that it happened during the Passover week.
	And the reason why, because it's interesting that the Lamb of God would be killed during Passover, right?
	And also turn so that, but that could be ad hoc as well, post hoc.
	They could have applied the Lamb of God to Jesus because he died in Passover.
	All right, fine.
	We're cool there.
	But then there's more, though.
	In Rome, during the reign of Claudius, which is in the 40s, which is right after it's right before the Gospels.
	So it's not the gospel.
	This is not being influenced by Christianity.
	That's impossible.
	Christianity was not known by anybody in the 40s.
	In the 40s, Claudius institutes a new festival for Addis.
	They kick off the Eides of March, which is March 15th, which is where the full moon in the month is, which is the same day as Nisan 14 on the Hebrew calendar, which is the day Jesus gets killed.
	And what happens on that day?
	They sacrifice a white lamb, the priest of Jupiter.
	It's in Ovid.
	It's also in other sources.
	Ovid explicitly mentions on Eides of March, Ovid's Foster.
	You can look it up yourself.
	The Eyes of March, they sacrifice a white lamb to Jupiter at the full moon.
	Then, after Claudius in the 40s, there's a festival for the dead Attis on March 22nd is the day of blood where they start to mourn over the death of Attis.
	And they take a pine tree and they bury it with an effigy of the God Attis on it.
	Three days later, on March 25th, they have a day of rejoicing.
	Oh, I'm sorry, I made the dates wrong.
	March 25th is a day of mourning.
	March 28th is the day of rejoicing.
	Resurrection of Attis.
	So you're telling me that right around the same time that this festival gets instituted by Claudius Caesar, a guy got killed and resurrected three days later at the same time.
	Obviously, we don't think that happened.
	Even written about, though.
	You're telling me someone wrote a story in the 70s or 80s or 90s or whatever this guy written about a guy who dies in the same week as Attis and resurrects three days later, just like Attis.
	Bullshit.
	So I think it's a possibility that a guy got crucified.
	But I think they wanted him to be a death in March because there was already themes of gods dying in March and resurrecting in March.
	Osiris is another one.
	If you look at the story of Osiris in Plutarch, which is contemporary with the gospels, Osiris says he goes to the underworld, which is the heaven in the ancient, there's no heaven.
	They have the underworld.
	He goes to the underworld after three days after the full moon of the month of Theophi, which corresponds to March, April time.
	So another God who dies and resurrects in the springtime is Osiris.
	I've heard the debunkers say there's no such thing as resurrecting gods before Jesus.
	I've heard the debunkers claim that, and apologists claim that a million times.
	You're saying that's a lie, too.
	There is death and resurrecting gods.
	It is nonsense.
	Absolutely nonsense.
	And it's all astrotheological rooted in the death of the sun or the death of the plants and the harvest and the rebirth after winter.
	Yeah, and not only that, the only scholars that will push that nonsense that there's no resurrecting gods are like theological THD people.
	For some reason, and the way they argue it is the nature of rebirth in these other stories are different.
	They admit, they acknowledge that gods die and come back, but they won't call it a resurrection.
	They'll call it a rebirth or a return.
	So they have these fake parameters that they put on these stories to separate them from Jesus.
	But there's modern anthropology.
	Piola Corenti, PhD professor over in Italy.
	I'm talking to her right now.
	She's like, this is all nonsense.
	These gods, we can use the word resurrection for not only Dionysus, but for Inanna, who dies for three days and three nights, it says in this story, in the Sumerian story.
	Dies, comes for three days and three nights, and then gets resurrected.
	And Baal, which is another, which is a Semitic story.
	You said Inanna, right?
	Like, isn't the descent of Inanna?
	That's Ascension of Isaiah is really similar to that one, to that story as well.
	And we know that people will then try to argue.
	Well, Baal is so old, and Inanna is even older.
	How do you know Christians even knew about those stories?
	Well, it turns out, just look at the archaeology, we have temp, there's there was cults of Inanna or Ishtar.
	She was Ishtar at that time.
	There's cults of Ishtar all the way in the second century AD.
	And then Baal, too.
	Baal and Inanna were still worshipped in Syria all the way until the second century AD.
	So there's clearly, you could still inspire Christianity way late in the game.
	Okay, let's do this one.
	Mithras was born on December 25th.
	There is no historical evidence linking Mithras to that date besides the celebration of Christmas predates the cult of Mithras.
	So you agree with that one, right?
	Listen to that last sentence.
	The celebration of Christmas predates the cult of Mithras.
	No, I just looked it up.
	Mithras, they say, started first century and peaked and third.
	Oh, BCE.
	Yeah, okay.
	So he's a liar again.
	Well, people might say in Rome, the first century AD is when the cult of Mithras came up.
	But there's sources about Mithras in Syria or in the Persian Mithra even before that that goes way, way, way, way, way, way, way back.
	But the celebration of Christmas, like I mentioned earlier, doesn't start to the fourth century AD.
	So this is just complete nonsense.
	Also, one more thing about Mithras.
	It's true that there are no sources that explicitly say that Mithras was born on December 25th.
	Sol and Victus was.
	And I found yesterday, I looked for like five minutes, just real quick to look.
	I found 13 inscriptions that say, Sol Invictus Mithras as one name.
	So they got merged together as one God.
	So it's true.
	Some people will point out that in some depictions, they are twins.
	So there's Sol and there's Mithras as two different twins.
	But then if they're twins, they're still born on the same day.
	So that doesn't mean anything.
	Twins are born on the same day.
	Anyways, the oldest, we don't have a lot of sources about Mithras.
	We lost all their texts.
	Yeah, the Christians destroyed them all because it was just like Jesus.
	Right.
	And the one that does survive, the one that does survive from Porphyry says that souls become mortalized in the summer solstice and then immortalize in the winter solstice.
	So the only text of Mithras we have has winter and summer solstice in the text.
	Not only that, there are three Mithraums.
	One of them was built in 184.
	The other one was built in like 200.
	And the other one was built in like 210.
	They were all built on the summer solstice on June 25th.
	Then there's another Mithraum in Syria that was built around the year 300.
	So it's late.
	But that one was dedicated on December 25th.
	And they designed it for light to come through a hole between December 25th and January 6th.
	Wow.
	So the idea that Mithras has nothing to do with December 25th is nonsense.
	Even to this day, Zoroastrians celebrate Yalda Knight on the winter solstice as the birth of Mithra.
	So the idea of that's just crazy.
	It's just.
	Is Mithra and Sol Invictus related?
	I'll just ask Chad GPT that and it's going to say yes, I'm sure, because you just said it.
	But that's amazing.
	So this guy, this Catholic apologist, is going to say the celebration of Christmas predates the cult of Mithras.
	Not true.
	Like you said, Syrian Mithra was in the BCs.
	Roman Mithraism Was first century and second century, and all of that is before any Christians were ever saying Jesus was born on the 25th, or let alone widespread celebration of Christianity.
	Yeah, you want to look something up real quick?
	Look up Mithras, Helios, Apollo, Antiochus.
	Mithras, Helios, Apollo, Antiochus.
	You know how to spell that?
	I think.
	So there should be a source that says Antiochus shakes hands with a naked Apollo Mithras Helios.
	Oh, yeah, I see it.
	If you want to pull that up real quick, shakes hands with naked Apollo, Mithras, Helios.
	Yeah.
	That one?
	Just that click on that.
	Yeah.
	That is a dedicated steli from 86 BCE with Mithras as a solar deity.
	Yeah, with the thing they always portray Jesus as.
	So the idea that Mithras has nothing to do with the sun god is nonsense.
	He's linked with the sun god all the way back in 86 BCE.
	You know, they love to say, oh, that's Zeitgeist.
	That was debunked in Zeitgeist already.
	I saw the YouTube video.
	There's so much material.
	Zeitgeist got a couple things wrong, but a lot of it was legit.
	Yeah, they got a lot of major.
	The problem is they got a lot of major things wrong, so that compensates for things they actually were correct on.
	They're correct on a lot of things.
	And so what happened is people wanted to debunk it so badly that they overcompensated and they got sloppy and they missed out.
	Like Horace, there is a source about Horus being born at the winter solstice.
	Did you know this?
	I can pull it up for you if you want.
	If you want to see it, I'll make sense that they're going to have their gods born on a special day like that.
	I'll pull it up right now.
	I'll show you.
	Give me one second.
	Okay.
	All right.
	There's no historical evidence linking Mithras to that date.
	That's not true either.
	You said there was a little bit later, but there is historical evidence of Mithras.
	Yeah, like I said, this Sol Invictus god is what's called a Theocrasia.
	So he's a godhead.
	He's basically Jupiter, Mithras, and Helios or soul.
	And the reason why we know this is because Macrobius tells us this in his book called Saturnalia.
	If you read Saturnalia by Macrobius, he explains that soul is the sum of all the gods, especially Dionysus and Mithras and Apollo, he says.
	But so Mithras is dedicated.
	His temples are dedicated on solstices.
	So when Sol Invictus gets this feast in 274, he's using the Mithraic, a Mithraic culture as the backdrop for this.
	Anyone would agree with me on this, that Mithras and Sol Invictus are sort of linked by that time.
	And by the way, there's 13.
	I found 13 different inscriptions from the third century, some of them from the late 2nd century, that are dedicated to the god, Sol Invictus Mithras, as one name, not two names.
	So Solinvictus Mithras was one God.
	So you see what I'm saying?
	Do you want to see that real quick?
	Yeah, sure.
	All right.
	First, let me show you this.
	You're going to share screen.
	You see where to do it?
	Yeah.
	Start sharing.
	Are you seeing my screen right now?
	No.
	Oh, I forgot what happens.
	It doesn't show up through your, it only gives me your video feed.
	Let me do this real quick.
	I'll fix it.
	Okay.
	Oh, no, you can do that again.
	Go back to how you have it.
	It's just going to show my screen with what I see.
	Is that what's going to happen?
	It's just going to share your desktop that you choose.
	All right, that's fine.
	I don't care.
	So do I do desktop or window?
	Well, whatever you want to show.
	Oh, I see.
	I see where I can do window.
	Okay.
	You can do monitor, window, desktop.
	So can you see this?
	It's just us showing.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Huh.
	I don't think you could try a different one.
	Try window.
	Try something different here.
	Oh, screener.
	Oh, I see now.
	I see now.
	Okay.
	Switch window.
	Okay, I see now.
	I'm going to share my.
	I was going to share my screen.
	Okay.
	So generic P and M modern.
	Okay, so you can see me now.
	I see you.
	There's the screen.
	There we go.
	Here we go.
	Okay.
	This is from Anisis and Osiris.
	This was written contemporary with the time the gospels are being written.
	Early second century time.
	Before Christmas was a thing.
	Wait, this is three centuries before Christmas was a thing.
	There's no Bible verse about Jesus being born at the winter solstice.
	But you have this.
	For this reason, it is said that Isis, when she perceived that she was pregnant, put upon herself an amulet on the sixth day of the month of Theophy, about the time of the winter solstice, she gave birth to Harpocrates.
	You know what Harpocrates means in Greek?
	No.
	Harpu Charid, right here, right here.
	It means Horace the child.
	Heru means Horace.
	Parrot, Charad.
	Horus the child.
	So Horace is born on the winter solstice.
	Yes.
	Horace is born at the winter solstice.
	Now this guy says Horace about the time.
	Okay, no, he says Horace was born a virgin just like Jesus.
	So that's not true.
	But he is born on the winter solstice like Jesus.
	Yeah, he's born at the winter solstice.
	Now, this is so the idea that he's born of a virgin takes some speculation, but there is an argument to be made that there's another source where Isis gives birth to Apathis.
	And the way she gives birth to him is Zeus just touches her, and she's pregnant.
	There's no sex at all.
	Zeus lays laying of hands on Isis, and she gave birth to Apathis.
	Now, even in this very text right here, if you look up Apathis, Apathis is basically another version of Horace.
	Look at this.
	This is the same text.
	I leave out an account of Manasius' annexation of Dionysus, Osiris, and Serapis to Apathis.
	These guys are annexed into one God called Apathis.
	So you can argue that this sort of godhead figure of Dionysus, Osiris, Horace are all born at the winter solstice and they're born of a virgin.
	But you have to combine Macrobius' work with Plutarch's work.
	And it's a bunch of speculation.
	I don't like to say that.
	I don't like to make that argument.
	But I will point it out.
	There is a legit argument that you can make for that.
	You see what I'm saying?
	But not the strongest, not so much.
	No, it's based on speculation.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	Well, that one's not as bad, as egregious as his lies and his other claims.
	Dude, I haven't gone through this whole thing.
	I just saw it and I bookmarked it and I was like, oh, I'll just ask Neil about that.
	We can do a little debunk, and I can't say I'm surprised at how bad some of these claims that he's making are, but...
	Yeah, they're very bad.
	You're right.
	I'm not surprised.
	This is standard run-of-the-mill Christian apologetics.
	Even PhD Christians will say stuff like this.
	15,000 likes, by the way.
	Yeah, they're trained to say this stuff.
	Okay, next one is, there's no evidence of virgin-born saviors in pagan mythology before Christianity.
	The virgin birth is rooted in Jewish prophecy that predates most pagan mythology.
	No, it doesn't.
	Particularly, Isaiah 7.14 claims that parallels with pagan myths are a modern speculation, not ancient fact.
	As if Jesus is ancient fact.
	Isaiah 14 doesn't even say virgin.
	It's completely out of context because they're talking about somebody that was born, somebody else in the story.
	And I already mentioned, by the way, his own Christian saints, Saint Justin Martyr, says that Perseus was born of a virgin, which means that there's a loss.
	We don't know what text he's referring to, but we know that he wouldn't lie about that.
	Why would he make up that another God was born of a virgin?
	So people have speculated that Saint Justin Martyr had access to a text that we lost about Perseus being born of a virgin.
	So there's one virgin birth.
	I already mentioned the other one, Apathis.
	Apathys is born from Zeus touching the womb of Isis.
	And she gives birth to this holy divine child with no sexual unit at all.
	So that's debunked.
	I can show.
	I feel like they just, because they were envisioning a son of God, like, how is the Son of God going to have a son on earth if not finding a young virgin and inseminating her with his seed of David?
	Yeah.
	Christmas trees come from pagan worship of evergreens.
	The Christmas tree tradition started in 16th century Germany long after the death of paganism in Europe.
	Ornaments and candles symbolize the Garden of Eden in Christ as the light of the world.
	No, they don't.
	Give me a break.
	Right.
	The Garden of Eden.
	I haven't never heard something so stupid.
	We just saw Saturnalia said that they had candles in wreaths and they brought shit in the houses.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So Christmas trees, it technically is a later thing.
	But you can also make the argument that since they're already doing greenery, which goes back to the ancient Romans, decorating with greenery during the month of Supper is a pagan Roman thing.
	The idea that Christmas trees would come as a result of that.
	Why?
	Because Christmas trees, pine trees, don't lose their green during the wintertime.
	So it's just common sense.
	That goes along with greenery.
	Duh.
	And probably at some point, they just got more popular for some reason.
	It just became a new trend that Christmas trees became a thing.
	This doesn't make sense logically, though.
	If Christianity is being celebrated all over Europe, it's widespread.
	And then you're telling me only the Germans bringing in the tree just all of a sudden got adopted by all the other Christians that had no tree ceremonies?
	There's a source from a Roman from the Republic times from like 100 BC, 150 BC, who says that during the Brumalia, it was a trend for Romans to cut down pine trees because they're good to hang stuff on.
	That is during the winter solstice.
	He says that.
	So there's a source from the old ancient world about cutting down pine trees during the wintertime because they're great to hang stuff on.
	So you would think that why would that ever not, why would that ever stop being true?
	If it's true in 150 BC, why would it stop not be true for someone in 1600?
	Exactly.
	So I think that the greenery thing is how you explain this.
	By the way, I found that source about a path.
	You want to see it?
	Yeah, let me read the super chat real quick.
	Stacey F says, this show is great.
	I will definitely have to watch more than once.
	Eat, drink, and be merry.
	I like that.
	I will.
	I'm about to.
	Yo, by the way, today's Saturnalia, day one, 17th.
	So today would have been the first day of Saturnalia if we're living in ancient Rome.
	So yo, Saturnalia, everyone out there.
	I love how he's like, you know, trying to dismiss every single parallel with pagans, but then he'll just be like, yeah, the tree in the candles are obviously Christ is the light of this world.
	You mean like the sun?
	And the garden of Eden.
	Please, the ornaments represent the garden of Eden.
	Sure.
	Sure they do.
	Right.
	Oh, you wanted me to pull up your source?
	Yeah, this is from 500 BC, 550 BC, 6th century BC.
	Ask Lis.
	Can you see it?
	Is it hard to see?
	I could probably make it bigger.
	There we go.
	Make it bigger.
	All right.
	So it says, and Zeus begot by a son by the touching of his hand.
	And it is the claims that a cow's Zeus begotten calf.
	By the way, Isis became a cow to give birth to this God.
	It's a miracle birth of no sex.
	It's a miracle virgin birth.
	And a paphas is truly a name from laying on hands.
	It's like Christians that lay on hands.
	You know what I mean?
	You get the Holy Spirit.
	And who Libya, it's a title for Isis.
	It's an epithet of Isis, who reaps the fruit of the largest portion of earth.
	So this is her first child born.
	So she's a virgin.
	So this is a virgin birth.
	Well, just because it's the first child doesn't mean she's a virgin necessarily.
	Right, but there's no sexual union at all.
	She's like this queen, this like sacred virgin queen.
	So no, you're right.
	You can sort of argue that it doesn't necessarily say Parthenos in Greek.
	It's close.
	It's not exactly the same, obviously, but we're not claiming it's exactly the same of a virgin.
	But the point is, the point is, it's not exactly about the details that matter.
	It's about, could this inspire the Christian birth of Christ?
	Obviously, I could.
	And especially because this takes place in a cave.
	And mangers in the ancient world were always in caves.
	They didn't have buildings for mangers.
	They would cut out a cave and they would build their mangers in caves.
	It was way easier to keep animals in a cave than it is to keep a building with all them in there.
	So there's obviously, I think there's obviously a good argument here that the birth of the divine child, Apaphys, inspires the birth of Christ.
	Oh, you mean the manger?
	know, Randall Helms has gospel fictions.
	I stopped sharing.
	Oh.
	You stopped sharing.
	Okay, I got it.
	He finds a verse in Wisdom of Solomon, I think it is, that has a manger.
	Yeah.
	I'll look for it maybe in a second, but that's where Randall Helm says that the manger and the manger concept.
	The wisdom of Solomon was very influential for Christianity.
	It's one of those later Hellenistic Greek sources.
	It's like the Hebrew Bibles even have it in there.
	The Hebrew Bible is like, nah, we don't like that text.
	It's in the Catholic Bible, right?
	Yeah.
	So it's a popular Greek.
	Well, they're the one true church, don't you know?
	But yeah, that's the type of Hellenistic Judaism that influences Christianity is what you find in the wisdom of Solomon.
	The Wisdom of Solomon mentions Logos, mentions Sophia.
	It's very much Hellenized, very much philosophical, Pythagorean, all that stuff.
	Yeah, highly influential to the development of Christianity.
	All right, let's see the next one.
	The next goodie we got here.
	Gift giving comes from Babylonian traditions.
	We just saw that it was from Saturnalia.
	Why is he not?
	That's nonsense.
	Babylonians did not invent gift games.
	There's no gift giving in the Bible.
	Oh, oh, you're saying the Magi is what it's from.
	I don't know who's saying, who is he quoting here?
	That gift giving comes from Babylonian traditions.
	Everyone's saying it's coming from Roman traditions.
	Why would Babylonian traditions influence Europe?
	Rome is in Europe.
	And then he says, Babylonians did not invent gift giving.
	What, the Jews did?
	Nobody gave gifts before.
	It's nonsense.
	Christians give gifts on Christmas because of each other.
	Because of the three Magi.
	Oh, my God.
	So we're all little baby messiahs on Christmas.
	That's why we give everybody gifts because we're all messiahs on Christmas.
	Why did it take so long for them to start doing gift-giving rites if it's because of the three magi?
	Yeah, if it's from the original.
	Exactly.
	Good point.
	What's with the gap then?
	You know what I mean?
	Totally.
	Totally.
	It completely disproves it.
	And the three Magi, I imagine thinking that that's a real story.
	It's not the Three Magi isn't saying give gifts to everyone to each other.
	It's just giving gifts to Christ.
	Right, I know.
	And you can get from that that you should donate to the church or something.
	That's not giving gifts to everyone around you.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, or if you're good or bad, too, that theme.
	And also the gifts, what are they?
	Frankincense, gold, and myrrh, those are all from prophecy as well.
	Right.
	And have allegorical, you know, represent things.
	Yeah.
	Okay, another bad one.
	I love when they do the laugh out loud.
	Babylonians did not invent gift giving, as if anybody is even saying that.
	LOL.
	The Christians did, LOL.
	Nobody gave gifts before the Magi and Jesus.
	Everybody knows that.
	LOL.
	Where did that even come from?
	That's what I want to know.
	And since when does Mary and Jesus have red hair?
	Right.
	It looked just like this, guys.
	This is an exact reenactment of what happened with all the little angels playing their flutes and their violins with their little wings.
	I found the image of all the Sol Invictus Mithras thing, if you want to see that real quick.
	Okay.
	Let's see.
	Where are you sharing screen?
	I am now.
	Can you see it?
	It's loading.
	There we go.
	All right.
	Down on the bottom is the most explicit one, where it's literally Mithras, and it says two soli Invicto Dio, the god Sol Invictus.
	So that's Mithras, but it's saying Sol Invictus.
	This one right here, you can see it says Tu Soli Invicto Mithra.
	Look how they knocked out the face.
	I know, the Christians did that.
	Yeah, thanks a lot, Christians, for destroying all of our ancient mythologies and art.
	Dio, look at this.
	Another one.
	Dio, Sol, Invicta, Mithra.
	So you can see there's so many of these.
	Completely interconnected.
	Dio Invicto.
	Invicto Mithrae.
	Invicto Mithrae.
	Dio Invicto Mithrae.
	So you can see that this god, Mithra, is the invincible one.
	He's the Sol Invictus.
	He's the solar invincible God.
	It's like so obviously clear.
	Here's another one.
	That's Mithras right there being born from a rock.
	And it says Invictus, Sol Invictus.
	So the idea that they're not the same God is completely nonsense.
	It's completely made up.
	Helios.
	Look at Helios.
	Helios.
	And I think Mithras is in here.
	Right here.
	Mithrae.
	So Mithrae, something, something that's cut out Helios.
	So the idea that the Mithras is not linked with the soul god is completely nonsense.
	Sun worship.
	Yep.
	It is sun worship.
	And there's a lot of early traditions, even before in Matthew, when we first see the star, that there was all of these early star.
	I think it's Testament of Levi's one.
	I was just listening to Carrier's book today.
	Who does he say talks about?
	Saint Ignatius of Antioch has a Jesus story with a star that's not at all related to what we see in Matthew as well.
	So there's definitely star development type of stuff.
	And it's based on Numbers 24, 17.
	The star will come forth from Jacob also.
	So all these ideas syncretically mixed together with the pagan ones.
	Also, Balaam was a Gentile.
	So they're trying to do like, they're trying to riff off, oh, a Gentile prophet.
	Christianity is for the Gentiles.
	You know what I mean?
	Right.
	Absolutely.
	Let's see.
	I don't even know how many more he has on here, but this is good to debunk.
	Yeah.
	I think we're almost to the end of it.
	Santa Claus is just a Norse god Odin.
	This connection is supposedly because Odin rode on a flying horse, but that's the only connection.
	Saint Nicholas lived in the fourth century and Odin was not worshipped until the fifth century.
	Okay, that's true.
	It's a non-sequitur because Saint Nicholas did live in the fourth century, but none of the legends about him have anything to do with riding in a sled and giving gifts and dropping gifts into people's houses.
	The first source that you can get of him dropping anything in anyone's house is in the 9th century.
	But it's not him riding in a sled with reindeer in the sky.
	He's immortal.
	He's not magical.
	And he goes to a house that's poor and he throws coins in their window and then runs away.
	He doesn't take credit for it.
	But Odin had his own legends of flying on a riding horse.
	As this person points out, Odin riding on the horse called Sleepnear.
	And he did give gifts to the world.
	And there was a sort of Theodosia, which is a gift, God-giving gifts in his honor.
	So people have pointed out that as Saint Nicholas progresses over time into Santa Claus or Father Christmas in some places, he takes on the traits of the cultures that he adopts.
	So in Germany and in Norway, people are celebrating Christmas and they're making their Santa Claus like Odin.
	And then those Anglo-Saxons start to adopt that stuff.
	And that's how it gets in America.
	So Santa Claus is sort of an Anglo-Saxon type of Odin-inspired version of the St. Nicholas mythology.
	And look at this.
	Apparently, he says Odin was not worshipped until the fifth century.
	Then why did Tacitus write about him in the second century?
	Yeah, you're right.
	Tacitus mentioned some.
	He equates them with Mercury.
	Yeah, but that's Odin.
	Yeah, that's absolutely Odin.
	He's absolutely wrong that Odin does not exist yet.
	That's completely nonsense.
	Odin's very old.
	Devout Christians are some of the most ignorant people in the West.
	This reminds me of when they try to do these threads, proving that Jesus is real because the Shroud of Turin has been proven true or something.
	This is how low tier this is.
	And they don't even have the awareness to know how stupid they sound.
	It's so ridiculously low-tier.
	I mean, they complain about low-tier atheists.
	This is low-tier Christianity right here.
	Euologues was Holly Mistletoe, our proof Christmas is pagan.
	These are examples of cultural adaptation, not paganism.
	Adapting the pagan culture.
	That begs the question.
	Cultural adaptation is Bowering.
	First of all, let me explain something real quick.
	There is no religion called paganism.
	Paganism is the Gentile world culture.
	It's everything that's not Christianity is paganism.
	Here's our author, by the way.
	That's not true Christianity.
	You're adopting paganism, period.
	That's such a question-begging fallacy right there.
	None of these traditions are inherently pagan.
	The Yule Log's not pagan, please.
	Nor are they strictly necessary to celebrate Christmas, but they're all been associated with Christmas for the longest time.
	Please.
	Such a cope.
	Oh, my God.
	They're getting worse and worse.
	The cringe is getting stronger and stronger as we go through this.
	And then he finishes with his annunciation here.
	Christmas is not pagan.
	It is Christian to the core.
	Hopefully, we can put this silly debate to rest, though I highly doubt it.
	That's because you coked and lied.
	Every single post on this thread was complete nonsense.
	Some of them had a little bit of truth to it, but then he takes us to the next level somehow.
	So this is a moron right here.
	This is a complete moron.
	That was great.
	He looks like one, too.
	I know.
	Tired of the Christmas is pagan.
	No, it's not back and forth with your atheist friend.
	I made this guide so you can actually have a productive conversation.
	You can't get the truth in good faith from Christian apologists.
	They lie.
	They have to lie or otherwise give up their religion.
	This is so, it's so cringe.
	It's so cringe.
	Look at Tom Roswell.
	Yeah, yeah, I was here too.
	He made a good point.
	He makes a great point.
	The linguistic origin of Wodes goes back to proto-dramatic.
	It's true.
	And then I commented underneath that.
	Yeah, you said St. Nicholas wasn't flying on reindeer and using mistletoe magic in the 4th to 11th century.
	Right.
	That's my point is St. Nicholas, his tradition, adopts Odin tradition way later.
	And that actually shows you that it is inspired by Odin.
	The fact that it's not in the older sources, the 9th century legends, the 7th century legends about St. Nicholas have nothing to do with Santa Claus that we know today.
	He's just a bishop.
	He's just a random bishop.
	And we're seeing all the top Christian apologists, they always do their videos every year.
	No, Christmas is not pagan.
	You're wrong.
	It's debunked.
	And they're lying.
	They are lying like Christian apologists always do.
	Because they're scared that they're practicing a religion that's not pure and undefiled by natural cultural norms.
	They want it to be inspired by God.
	It has to be special.
	The idea that it's not inspired by God is terrifying to them.
	You and I know how culture works.
	There used to be an about, but I was going to look at how many views you've had ever.
	There used to be a about.
	Oh, you got to go to more.
	Go to more.
	There it is.
	18 million views.
	I've slowed down recently because I've moved and stuff, but I wasn't putting out a lot of videos, but I'm going to start getting back into it.
	217,000 subscribers.
	You just did a video a few earlier today, the Bacchic roots of Christmas epiphany.
	Tell us real briefly, give people a teaser of what they can find if they go sub your channel, which they should.
	I've been watching since you very started.
	As soon as, you know.
	Yeah, sorry, I didn't cut you off.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I was watching MythVision before that, and then you and Derek and been watching ever since you started.
	So what could people expect in there?
	And I suggest people go watch his interviews and his documentaries.
	Him and Derek at MythVision are doing an excellent job exposing the Bible, Judeo, prophecy, falsehoods that dominate our culture.
	Yeah, the two big topics that I like to explore is how we know that the Torah is not as old as everyone thinks.
	And we can barely date it past 270 BCE, if not even younger.
	But the other one is pagan influences on Christianity.
	And the Bacchic Roots of Christmas video is I show primary sources that predate the gospels of Dionysus having an epiphany celebrated on January 6th, the same day as the Epiphany of Christ, and attached to a wine miracle of water turning into wine, five different sources.
	I go through all the sources in the video.
	And then I show how that is the actual roots of Christmas.
	The Epiphany feast came first before the Christmas feast.
	And then at some time in like the sixth century or even later than that, they started to focus on December 25th more.
	The way I can prove that.
	I have a source from St. John Chrysostom who says, why do we celebrate the birth on January 6th and not on the day he was born?
	And it was like, because the epiphany is more important.
	You want to see that real quick?
	Yeah, sure.
	And while you're getting that ready, I got two more super chats before we close it out here.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Thank you so much for the support tonight, guys.
	Keith, I can't pronounce that.
	Key Fezugmik for five says the serpent emblem is used in the medical field.
	In fact, in the Navy, it is the emblem used by Navy corpsemen.
	It's the Asclepius, right?
	Isn't that Asclepius?
	What did he say?
	I'm sorry.
	I'm looking at my thing.
	The serpent emblem that's on the healing god.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	That's Asclepius.
	Yep.
	And Ophiuchus as well.
	And what's the one in Dionysus 2?
	Dionysus has serpents.
	Cadus, Mercury, or the Fiercest staff.
	Yeah.
	And Mo 6 Garillion says, keep up the good work, Adam.
	Thank you.
	I will try.
	I will try.
	It's good I've done this show because I haven't ever really gotten into the pagan or the astro-theological connections.
	It's been mostly talking about the prophecies from the Old Testament leading to Christianity, but all of this definitely.
	And the reason that they did this in that Christianity has so much pagan influence is because they were trying the inventors of Christianity were trying to target the pagan world for conversion.
	Yep.
	And this has been going on.
	Look at like it's the Egyptian god and that turned into the Greek god and then they became the Roman god.
	The gods just get co-opted and evolved and reused and repackaged and absorb each other naturally.
	So it's like inevitable that something like that would happen.
	Christianity is Judaism blended with like a Hellenistic mystery religion.
	Right, exactly.
	It's the nature of Christianity is to sort of adopt the cultural norms and try to one-up them.
	And then claim that they were the originators all along and that the pagan ones are evil.
	So they actually work to just take over and as soon as they got in power.
	So it's funny.
	Constantine is like, I feel bad for these Christians.
	They were treated horribly by my predecessor, Diocletian.
	I'm going to legalize their religion and make it a funded cult.
	And they're like, oh, what do they do in return of that nice gesture?
	40 years later, they shut down all the pagan temples and they shut down the Olympics and they shut down anything that has to do with pre-religion, pre-Christian religion.
	And even like, you know, libraries and shit.
	Yeah, I see Christians online still are saying stuff like, oh, there should be no pagan statues allowed anywhere.
	And recently, like, if a Christian goes and destroys the satanic temple, we'll try to put up something next to a religious symbol just to say, like, you know, to prove the point that you don't get to put your Christian symbols everywhere.
	And it gets destroyed and they all celebrate it and they celebrate all the noses being chopped off and all of the ancient pagan art and architecture and statues all being destroyed, all in the name of Yahweh, too.
	I think they think that they're the moral ones.
	John Chrysostom thinks that, oh, we're the moral ones.
	We're saving everybody from hell.
	So we're actually good acting like little demons for this guy.
	This guy used to write in the fourth century.
	He would complain that the Byzantine population was going to Olympics too much.
	They were attending theaters too much to watch plays of the ancient Greeks, ancient Greek, great classics of Dionysus.
	And he was like, they need to start going to church more and reading sermons.
	And that's how they.
	He told Christians to spy on other Christians and report it to him as well.
	Yeah.
	This is right before this is right before they banned everything when this guy was writing this stuff.
	He celebrated all of the Greek writings being destroyed as well.
	Yeah, there's a story about him.
	So his teacher was a pagan.
	So he grew up in a time when paganism was still a thing.
	His teacher, his teacher, was pagan.
	And then there's a story that when the temple, I forgot what God it was.
	It was like a temple of Dionysus or something, got shut down, his teacher was weeping over how this ancient temple that had so much meaning to him and his family got shut down by these Judaizers.
	He was pissed.
	And he starts laughing at him.
	He was like, aha, I can't believe he's whining over that pagan temple.
	I was like, this guy's a douchebag, man.
	Oh, he's such a douche.
	Let me read a quote real quick.
	Darkening Age, page 176.
	Far from mourning the loss, Christians delighted in it.
	As John Chrysostom crowed, the writings of the Greeks have, quote, the writings of the Greeks have all perished and are obliterated.
	And then he said, Where is Plato?
	Nowhere.
	Where is Paul in the mouths of all?
	And Christians worship this guy like he's the most base person ever.
	Those elaborately decorated fables have been utterly banned.
	He celebrates the banning of all of the ancient myths.
	Totally scumbag.
	Yeah, and that book right there is one of those books that pissed off a lot of people.
	It got good reviews from scholars saying this person did their research.
	And then there's a bunch of haters like Tim O'Neill who didn't even read the book and wrote reviews on it, bashing it.
	His review had nothing to do with the book.
	He didn't read the book.
	His review was, I heard some scholars didn't like it and it wasn't correct.
	That's your book review.
	How pathetic is that?
	You're going to do a book review and not actually read the book and just go off what someone told you.
	Pathetic.
	Yeah, it reminds me of how historicists or people online, they'll always just, they never give you any evidence for Jesus existing.
	They always say, most scholars agree.
	Yeah, scholars agree.
	Yeah.
	Bart Ahrman says it.
	So it must be true.
	Yeah.
	The non-arguments.
	So did you read the part you wanted to get from here?
	Yeah, okay.
	So this is the same guy we're just talking about, this douchebag.
	He's basically saying, why is it that on this day we celebrate the coming of our Lord?
	He says, but not the day which he was born, but rather the day he was baptized, which is called Epiphany.
	And then he has this weird thing about this water being sanctified, right?
	And so keep that in mind.
	But the reason why I'm pointing this out first is because this has been like 360 or something when he wrote this.
	And even this late in the game, Christmas is not a thing.
	It's the epiphany, January 6th.
	Notice how he says we don't celebrate the day of his birth.
	We celebrate his baptism.
	So if Christmas was still a thing, if Christmas was a thing in 360, why would he be writing this?
	This makes no sense.
	This makes no sense.
	This proves that Christmas was still not a widespread tradition yet.
	It was the epiphany.
	Now, let's talk about the epiphany.
	Clement of Alexandria talks about for people that don't know, epiphany is just him, Jesus being baptized.
	Yeah, well, it means that manifestation.
	It's basically the argument is in John's gospel, when Jesus was baptized, that's when he manifested his Holy Spirit.
	Yeah.
	Adoptionism, right?
	Yeah, so it's the baptism they're celebrating, but they call it the epiphany because it's the day he came in the flesh.
	That's the argument from the John readers.
	Bacillides was this Christian Gnostic heretic.
	Clement of Alexandria mentions him.
	He says, but he's so what happens in this book right here?
	It's in 200 AD.
	He starts going off of various Christians that celebrate the birth of Christ.
	They're all, none of them are December 25th.
	None of them.
	But then he randomly goes, so he's like, all right, May 20th, April 13th, September 7th, and October 4th.
	And then he goes, and then, see, right here, this is when he says all these dates.
	None of them are December 25th.
	And then he goes, but this Bacillades, these Christian Gnostics, they celebrate the day of his baptism, keeping vigil beforehand with readings.
	And they say this day is the 15th of Tiberius Caesar, the 11th of the same month, which equals January 6th.
	Okay?
	This is the first mention in the sources of anyone celebrating anything on January 6th.
	And it's the baptism.
	So this is how we know this is the origins of the Epiphany Feast come from a Gnostic heretic named Bacillides.
	Isn't that something?
	Bacillides is one of these Gnostic pagan type of guys who worships Abraxus.
	I'm not kidding.
	Look up Bacillides, Gnostic.
	He's way out there.
	He starts the January 6th Epiphany Feast.
	All right.
	Now, remember that.
	It happens on January 6th, but on the night before, keeping the vigil beforehand.
	Whoops, I didn't mean to move that over.
	So January 5th to the 6th, right?
	Well, check this out.
	This is from...
	Watch the collapse says, make pagan idol worship great again.
	Nice.
	I agree.
	So this is from Pliny the Elder.
	And he says, there's a spring in the harbor at Brindinsi, always supplies water for mariners.
	The slightly acid spring called Lincetstes makes men tipsy, like wine.
	The same occurs in Pathlagonia and in the territory of Kellys.
	It is accredited by the Mukianus, who was three times council, that water flowing from a spring in the temple of Father Lieber, that's Dionysus, Pater Lieber, the free father, it means, on the island of Adros, always has the flavor of wine on January 5th.
	The day is called Theodosia, God's gift day.
	So there's an epiphany of Dionysus on January 5th, and he brings gifts.
	All right, check this out.
	One more thing I want to show you.
	Diodorus, this is before that.
	This is 50 BCE.
	He says the Teans advance as proof that God, Dionysus, was born among them.
	The fact that even to this day, at fixed times in their city, a fountain of wine of unusually sweet fragrance flows of its own accord from the earth.
	And so let's say this is the coming of Dionysus, right?
	The epiphany of Dionysus.
	One more thing I got to show you.
	So you're just like going over the water to wine, the wine.
	Oh, two more, actually.
	The wine.
	Plutarch also says that the Thebans who had remained outside, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	There's a spring called Casusa.
	Here the story goes that the nurses bathed the infant Dionysus after his birth, for the water has the color of wine.
	So the birth of Dionysus or the epiphany of Dionysus always comes with a wine miracle.
	And the only date that we get is January 5th, which is the day of the Epiphany.
	Epiphanius is talking about this, right?
	Epiphanius, this is so crazy, by the way.
	This ties it all together.
	He says, on the 11th of Tybee, January 6th, according to the Egyptians, the incarnate birth of the Lord took place around the same 6th of January, 11th of Tybee, 30 years later, the first sign occurred in the Cana of Galilee.
	The water was made wine.
	Check this out.
	Check this out.
	This is a different lost tradition that we don't know about.
	This is what he says.
	Therefore, even in many places to the present day, this occurs as a testimony to the unbelievers because of the divine sign that happened to them, as many springs and waters in various places are said to change into wine.
	For example, the spring of the Kibera and Caria, for which servants drew water, and he said, Jesus says, give me the master of the feast.
	Likewise, spring in Gerassia of Arabia also bears witness, for we ourselves have drunk from the spring of Kibera, and our brothers have drunk from the spring of Gerasa at the shrine.
	The 11th of Tybee, that's January 6th, according to the Egyptians.
	Everyone draws water and stores it.
	So you can see the transitional fossil in between the Dionysian tradition and the Christian tradition.
	One more I want to show you real quick.
	This is cool too.
	So, where is it?
	Achilles, Tatius, Athenaeus.
	Where's the Aristotle one?
	While you're looking, I got another super chat.
	Drum and Bass World says, according to Philip Walter, a professor in France, the Christmas tree is actually much older.
	He has a great book called Christian Mythology: Revelations of Pagan Origins.
	Yeah.
	I believe it's way older.
	Oh, I was looking at this.
	What do you say was older?
	The Christmas tree.
	Oh, maybe.
	Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all.
	Oh, here we go.
	Aristotle.
	So Aristotle, this is in the 4th century BC.
	He talks about this miracle in Elis where three empty bronze cauldrons are set up in the temple of Dionysus.
	And when they come back in the next day, its cauldrons are full of wine.
	Okay.
	The thing about this that's interesting is what the hell just happened.
	I didn't even move it.
	It just moved by itself.
	The word they use here is lebetas.
	If you actually look up what a lebetas is, it's a specific cauldron that is used for marriages, for weddings, and ceremonial washings.
	Keep that in mind, right?
	John's gospel.
	So remember, this is on January 6th that this happens.
	I'll show you in a second.
	Let me just read this out.
	John 2 says, and Jesus said to her, What business do you have?
	His mother said, Whatever.
	He tells you, do it.
	Now, there were six stone water pots standing there for the Jewish custom of purification.
	So these stone jars are at a wedding, and they're designed for the custom of water purification, just like Aristotle describes it.
	And these are filled to the brim with wine as a miracle.
	Just like the so Cana at Galilee.
	So it wasn't even drinking water.
	Yes, exactly.
	It's copied from the other story.
	It's not a real thing.
	It wasn't their water at the party that he switched to wine.
	It's taken from the previous story where it's talking about purification.
	Yes.
	Now, let me.
	Oh, I'm already sharing my screen.
	Good, good, good.
	So the Epiphany, also known as the Theophany, Eastern Christian tradition.
	Ready for this?
	January 6th is the date.
	Now, the reason why the Gregorian calendar is January 19th is because of the calendar switch.
	But these people kept the Julian date intact.
	So most people have it on January 6th from the old Julian calendar.
	You know what they commemorate on this day?
	Baptism and wedding.
	The storming of the capital.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	It's the same day.
	Isn't that crazy?
	But check this out.
	Isn't that crazy?
	The same exact day of the year to this very day.
	The church has the wedding at Cana and the baptism of Jesus on January 6th.
	Dude, that's such a smoking gun.
	It's over.
	Yeah, there's just so much evidence for This.
	They even had this called the Epiphany Tide.
	The Epiphany Tide.
	Ready for this?
	Immediately following Christmas Day, it's seasoned, and it begins on Epiphany Day.
	So it's 12 days after Christmas, ends on January 6th, right?
	And then after January 6th, they have another festival of the Epiphany until January 13th.
	Now, check this out.
	I want to show you one more thing before we go.
	Epiphanius.
	Oh, shit.
	I got to pull one more thing up.
	Just give me one second.
	So just to recap what we discovered there, they're celebrating on January 6th the miracle of Cana, the wedding of Cana.
	And then the original story had the, and it's not water holders, water jars, vessels.
	It's ceremonial.
	Ceremonial.
	And then what story does that come from?
	What story was it?
	So we have three sources.
	Aristotle in 4 and 350 BCE.
	Theopompus around the same time, 4th century BCE.
	He mentions the same wine miracle of cauldrons called Lebes.
	In fact, let me show you.
	And what God, what God was evolved.
	Dionysus.
	Dionysus.
	Okay.
	Yeah, look at this.
	Ready for this?
	Lebes, Lebes, ceremonial jars, bronze.
	Here it is.
	Okay.
	You're going to love this.
	I'm going to share my screen again.
	And I'll just do general.
	Or yeah, Lebesgue, Wikipedia.
	You had this one, the Dionysus, most influential god of all time.
	Yeah.
	You go over a lot of this January 6th stuff there.
	And I do.
	The Dionysus-Jesus connections.
	Yep.
	There's a lot of stuff in there.
	So you check this out.
	Ready?
	Remember, we just read that word.
	Remember in Aristotle, I told you it says lebates.
	A lebates is a type of ancient Greek cauldron, normally in bronze.
	It is a deep bowl, rounded bottom, sacrificial tripod.
	What is it used for?
	It's used for wedding purification ceremonies.
	The same exact jar that Jesus is using in John 2 is what they use for Dionysus in the three sources from Aristotle, Theopompus, and Pausanias.
	Wow.
	And even the so-called secular, like leading Christian apologists, Bible scholars online, your favorite ones, like Dan McClellan, they will deny that there's water to wine miracles are connected to Jesus or precede Christianity, basically.
	Right.
	They're amazing.
	I'm about to prove it to you right now.
	Look at this.
	Last thing I want to show you guys.
	This is from Epiphanius and his Panarion.
	Same guy that told us about the springs of water turning into wine tradition about Jesus.
	Oh, by the way, there's another thing going even deeper.
	He talks about a tradition where Jesus was born after a seven-month premature birth.
	And we find in Diodorus of Sicily that Osiris was born after a seven-month.
	Actually, I got to pull that up, but let me show you this first.
	We've got to show you two more things, but then we'll go done.
	All right.
	So Epiphanius says, indeed, the Savior was born in the 42nd year of his reign in the year of Augustus, emperor.
	So he says, I'm just going to skip ahead a little bit.
	This day is celebrated by the Greeks, the idolaters, the Calends of January, before the Calons of January, which the Romans call Saturnalia, and the Egyptians call Cronia.
	And the Alexandrians call Cakelia.
	So there's evidence right there of Saturnalia.
	Yeah.
	And he says, he says, which the solstice and the day of increase of light gains addition, completing a number of 13 days.
	There's your epiphany tide from December 25th to January 6th.
	So what happens then?
	This is what he says happens.
	He goes, the incarnation, which is called Epiphany, from the beginning of Increase of Light, he repeats himself again.
	He says it's because of the 12 disciples.
	That's why it's 12 days.
	He's just doing some bullshit.
	But what does he say about this?
	He says, on the very night of the Epiphany, so January 5th, that those hoping in deception would not seek the truth.
	First in Alexandria called Koreum, the precinct of Cori.
	That's the mother of Dionysus in Greek mythology.
	Precinct of Cori.
	It says that they sing with flutes and they sing to the idol, the crowing of roosters.
	They descend the torches underground.
	And then this is where it gets crazy.
	They say, being asked what mystery this is, at this hour, the Cori, that is the virgin, gave birth to Ion.
	I thought there was no virgin births.
	I told you.
	Yeah.
	Before Christianity.
	Virgin birth of Ion.
	And then he says down here, and in Arabia, in Petra, that's where that great building in Petra is, they do the same thing.
	For Dusaris is the only begotten of the Lord, being born of a virgin called Kabu.
	So there's two traditions here.
	And then he says this also takes place in Elusa.
	So this is like saying Jesus is born in Edom, kind of.
	There's a connection there, right?
	Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
	Like Christianity was born or took off in Rome, which they viewed as Edom.
	That's interesting.
	And who's Ion?
	Let's say who's Ion, right?
	He's a God concerned with the afterlife, mysteries of Kybele, Dionysian mysteries, Orphic religion, Mithraic mysteries, right?
	These Neoplatonic writers talk about him as being like Pluto or Dionysus.
	The Suda identifies him with Osiris Anadonis.
	Ion is identified with Dionysus in Christian and Neoplatonic writers.
	There's no evidence of before the Christian era.
	Somewhat true.
	He starts up in the sources right around the same time as Christianity.
	So early second century.
	Epiphanius says he's born of the virgin.
	We already saw that one.
	So this scholar right here, Jarl Fossum, he's a PhD.
	He has a whole article about this God saying that if you want to describe him, he's Osiris Dionysus reborn annually.
	That's him.
	Isn't that crazy?
	Yeah.
	Crosses on his hands, knees, and forehead.
	His image was marked with cross.
	Is it the Christians did those markings, or that's how he just looked?
	Let me go back to that.
	No, no, no.
	The crosses are anks, is what Jarl Fossum describes him as.
	Says he says they probably were anks.
	So you know how the Egyptian anks have crosses?
	He thinks.
	And it's related to the Orphic Phanes and the coiling serpent.
	Exactly.
	This is him right here.
	So Jesus is this Edom serpent.
	God.
	Look, he's got a Thircus staff like Dionysus.
	He looks like Mithras in between holding a zodiac, and he's got the serpent on a cross thing, like Jesus, or Ophiuchus.
	And then this is, that's him with the zodiac, like Mithras.
	He's like the brazen serpent.
	Yeah, he's very much like Mithras or Dionysus rolled into one.
	Now, one last thing I want to show you.
	This is from my script.
	Yeah.
	So the tree or the wood or the cross.
	Yeah.
	Last thing I want to show you, though.
	Epiphanius, in that same text that I was talking to you about, he says that those who have given a date for the conception and Gabriel is bringing of the tidings of the virgin, certain persons who have it by tradition.
	So this is some lost Christian tradition, that Christ was born after a term of seven months on January 6th.
	Now, that's a very, very specific, very specific thing that happened right there.
	So we shouldn't find anything like that anywhere else, right?
	Check this out.
	No, they took it from the pagans.
	Check this out.
	Dionysus was born after seven months.
	He was a premi, too.
	Premi God?
	Yes.
	Premi virgin God.
	Wow.
	Oh, wait, I did the wrong seven.
	There we go.
	Here we go.
	From 50 BCE, Diodorus of Sicily says this.
	This is going to blow.
	This is perfect to end on.
	Cadmus.
	Now, if you know Greek mythology, if you read the Bacchae, you're going to go, wait a minute, Cadmus, that's the uncle of Dionysus.
	And Semele, that's the mother of Dionysus.
	This is about Dionysus.
	Nope.
	She was violated by an unknown person, became pregnant, and after seven months, gave birth to a child whose appearance was the Egyptians call Osiris.
	So here, this is this Ion God.
	Violated by an unknown person.
	You mean like God, Yahweh?
	Yes.
	Yeah, this is people think this is a tradition is linked.
	Look, they call it an epiphany, too.
	They use the word epiphania in Greek.
	So it's called an epiphany.
	It's the seven-month tradition of Osiris Dionysus.
	Wow, that's where this, that's the origin of like you had an epiphany.
	Like you just, oh, I just realized something.
	It's, it starts by getting raped by God.
	Yeah, pretty much.
	That's what epiphany actually means.
	Yeah.
	And it says right here.
	Now, such a child is usually brought into the world, not brought into the world alive after seven months, either because it's contrary to the will of the gods or because the law of nature.
	Like basically saying, like, that's what.
	Supernatural.
	Yeah, this is supernatural birth.
	And so the fatherhood of the God they attributed to Zeus in this way of magnifying Osiris.
	So in both cases, for Dionysus and Jesus.
	I'm saying Dionysus here because, look, it's the mother.
	His mother is Semele.
	That's Dionysus' mother.
	So, okay, Ion.
	We could say Ion, which is the combination of Osiris and Dionysus tradition that happens in the second century.
	Both Jesus and this God, Ion, are born after a term of seven months.
	They both are called Epiphany.
	They both have a water turning into wine miracle.
	And it both happens on January 6th.
	All of that lining up is so specific that I don't know if you can't, if you're not following.
	And the purification vessels also.
	Purification, all that stuff.
	Yeah.
	Not a coincidence.
	And the virgin birth, you know, all that stuff lines up.
	I don't know if you can't follow me on this.
	I don't know what to tell you.
	Well, if you didn't follow, guys, watch his documentaries on it because he covers it in there in a very professional manner.
	Well, dude, that was, I'm blown away.
	I'm blown away with how bad that guy's thread was.
	I'm glad we got to debunk it.
	And all the parallels, how any apologist or professional biblical critical scholar can deny the pagan parallels are just coping and lying, if you ask me.
	So that was really cool, Neil.
	I'm glad you came on and shared that all.
	This was fun.
	It's an open-shut case, guys.
	I agree.
	Copy different paganism.
	It's not real.
	They blended pagan motifs with Old Testament prophecies and quote mind and created a fan fiction.
	And that's what we got with Christianity and Christmas.
	So Merry Christmas, everyone.
	Merry Christmas to you, Neil, as well.
	Let me get that off the screen.
	Sorry.
	Yo, Yo, Saturnalia, as well.
	You're going to miss your winter, right?
	You just moved from a cold climate to.
	Yeah, I like the December.
	It wasn't too cold yet in Buffalo.
	It was starting to get cold.
	The January, February, March is freezing in Buffalo.
	But I'm not going to miss it, though.
	Won't miss that.
	I like the warmth.
	I like the warmth.
	Cool, man.
	Well, we'll have to have you back on probably sometime after the new year and get into some of the latest exposing the fake Torah.
	I saw Jonathan Yonatin Adler did a big thread today talking about that.
	He made some of the Jews were in there real mad at him saying that it's not real.
	But guys, if you haven't, definitely sub the Gnostic Informant.
	I've been subbed for a long time.
	One of my favorite YouTube channels, along with MythVision and a few others, doing so many cool interviews and exposing all of these ancient mythologies.
	So cool.
	A lot of fun, man.
	Any parting last words before we grap it?
	No, I'll just say check out my latest video.
	I basically go over a lot of the stuff we talked about here, but I do it in a more nicer than how we presented it.
	We were kind of jumping around and stuff.
	But yeah, you'll see.
	You'll see it.
	I thought it was pretty good.
	No, yeah, this was great.
	I had a good idea.
	And sorry, I just, I have another couple of super chats.
	Drum of Bassworld says, to both of you, I highly recommend you check out this tool, Coral AI, your upload.
	You upload your PDF books, and all the answers will only be from the content in the book.
	So it will let you click and jump to the page quote it shows you.
	Super useful for researching.
	Sounds like a more chat GPT more for PDFs.
	That sounds cool.
	Have you heard of that one?
	Coral AI?
	No, I'll check it out.
	Okay.
	Boleslaw says, follow-up question to Neil, were there any notable attempts by pagans to resist Christianity in Rome?
	That's a big question.
	Yeah, there was.
	There was some pushback, especially early on.
	Yeah, there was.
	Then they were crushed and burnt at the stake.
	Pretty much, yeah.
	So it's weird because right after Theodosius' reign, Rome is not even, Rome is like not popular or not powerful at all.
	Like, actually, going back before that, before Theodosius, Diocletian moves the capital.
	Constantine finishes off that project.
	Diocletian starts moving everything over there.
	Constantine really makes it the capital.
	And then by the time they get to Theodosius, Rome is like a backwater.
	It's not being funded.
	They have to pay taxes, believe it or not.
	There was a law by Diocletian, or no, it was before Diocletian.
	There was a law that somebody, one of the emperors made that says, we're going to move our Senate over to Constantinople.
	However, don't worry, you Romans will never have to pay taxes because you're the mother city.
	Well, they canceled that shit.
	They started getting taxes from Rome.
	Rome was nothing anymore.
	They were just a backwater city.
	All the columns were falling apart.
	It was really horrible.
	Anyways, so we don't have sources of what was going on when paganism started to lose control.
	All we know is everything happening in Constantinople.
	And that's where the power was.
	So who knows what was going on in Rome?
	There probably was pagans fighting, and we just don't know what they were doing.
	Yeah, they just, they are like, oh, they just happily all converted.
	There was no pushback.
	They all just, they saw the power of Jesus and converted right away.
	That's the story.
	Thousands of years of ancestral customs just out the window.
	While they covered up all the brutal torture that they did to everybody.
	Right.
	That's nuts.
	All right.
	And I think I saw one last one, too.
	It was asking if you were on Rumble.
	You're only on YouTube, right?
	YouTube and Twitter doing something like that.
	But I just, I'm so focused on YouTube that I'm just, that's where I'm at.
	Yep.
	Yep.
	All right.
	Thanks for coming on.
	We'll have to do it again soon.
	And everybody sub to the channel.
	Thanks, everyone, for the support.
	And don't let these apologists get away with claiming that Zeitgeist has all been debunked and there's no pagan parallels and Christmas is not pagan.
	They're lying.
	All right.
	Absolutely.
	May the Gnosis be with you.
	There's your name.
	May the Gnosis be with you.
	I love it.
	No, what is your tagline actually?
	You have just attained true Gnosis.
	You have just attained true Gnosis.
	May the Gnosis be with you.
	That's cool.
	All right, guys.
	That's great.
	That's hilarious.
	You could use that one.
	You can steal it.
	Okay, here's the outro.

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