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April 25, 2022 - Know More News - Adam Green
01:31:44
Is Christianity a Hoax? | Dr. E Michael Jones vs. Adam Green
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Time Text
Dr. Jones gets in here.
It won't look like this when he gets back.
We'll fix that.
Maybe I should just switch till he there.
All right.
All right, here we go.
So I'll go ahead and since I guess it's kind of, you know, Adam's making the assertion or it's kind of the engine for the debate, I guess.
Or, you know, he's been putting this out for a while, his theory on Christianity.
So I'll just let him start and let you get the response there.
You guys know how we do it on the kill stream.
You'll have about 10 minutes, Max, I'd say.
Take as much of that or as little as you want.
And then we'll open it up for questions between the participants and we'll have a break for super chat questions at some point.
So we're going to go for an hour, right?
I was thinking 90 minutes, but it's up to you.
I mean, however long you have to stay.
No, I start hallucinating after 60 minutes.
I do know that you like excited debate.
Maybe can we do an hour and then maybe like a segment for questions or something at the end?
Chad said that Ed Zoll on Cozy said that we need to debate until Adam converts.
Wait, I don't have that kind of time tonight.
Is that okay, though?
Can we do an hour and then like a little 10-minute question part at the end?
Is that okay?
All right.
I don't take any responsibility for what I say after one hour.
That's perfectly fine with me.
Go ahead.
Go ahead, Adam.
I'll let you kick it off.
All right.
Thanks.
My name is Adam Green.
I've been making videos exposing Zionism, which is really just Judaism and Christianity, quasi-Christianity online for the last six years.
And tonight I'm going to argue that Christianity is not just false, but it is a deception.
And Jesus is a hoax and he didn't exist.
And the Bible is full of fake myths.
And Christianity was fabricated as a dialectical antithesis to Judaism.
It's an ancient psychological operation.
It's theological warfare to enslave and control the minds of the nations or the Goyim.
And they did this by creating a controlled opposition, quasi-Jewish sect and manipulated the Gentiles, targeted the Gentiles through fear of eternal punishment if they didn't believe in this Torah and the Tanakh and the Jewish mythologies.
And they were, if they did believe, eternal rewards.
The whole idea of that we're born, God created us and fallen, and that there's a curse of a magical serpent snake and a fruit tree.
It's not true.
We don't need Torah messianism.
We don't need salvationism to be saved from anything.
It's actually just a problem reaction solution.
Christianity is a fake solution to a fake problem.
And let's see.
The theme in all of the prophecies of the Old Testament, the Torah, the Tanakh, is that God's, to summarize, God's chosen people will basically rule the world with their Moshiach, their Messiah, from Jerusalem, from Zion.
And there's verses in the Old Testament like, all flesh will worship Yahweh.
All the Gentiles will know the Lord.
The Messiah is described in the Old Testament as that will conquer the nations.
He will reign over the nations.
The nations and the Gentiles will be obedient to him.
He will bring judgment to the nations and fear of the God of Israel, of the jealous God, the God that hates idol worship and wants to eradicate that and paganism, all the competing religions, anything that's not Jewish, basically.
And Christianity perfectly served that function.
It fulfilled their objectives.
Maimonides' top rabbi brags of this.
Marcus Eli Ravage, the Rothschild biographer, also boasted of this.
And even in E. Michael Jones's book, which I was just rereading to prepare for the debate, as I posted on Twitter, he knows about this.
A famous Jewish historian, Greats, called Christianity a new kind of warfare against Rome.
And he said that it modified or partly destroyed them.
And he called it the most successful Jewish Sect.
So it was a Jewish sect.
It was a new kind of warfare to conquer Rome from within and with creating a dialectic that became estranged from and placed itself in harsh antagonism to the parent source, the original controlled opposition.
And what I see with EMJ and all Christians is that you, or at least anti-Zionist Christians, you believe that you oppose Judaism, and you do in a way, but I argue that it's superficial.
It's only on the surface.
It's limited in scope because Christians validate the idea that the Torah is the word of God.
They fear and worship the God of Israel, the jealous, bloodthirsty, genocidal God of Israel that chose the Jews.
They affirm, Christians affirm the first covenant of the Jews, and they believe the Jews were once and still kind of are God's chosen people.
They follow the Jewish Messiah, and they believe that Jews have a special role.
E. Michael Jones' book even argues that according to God's divine plan, Jews have to, what is the word that he uses?
Purdue, I think it is.
They have to last until the end of time.
So while all the pagan cultures lost their traditions, their myths, their honoring of their ancestors, and the lessons from all of that, it's replaced for revering the God of Israel, the Jewish patriarchs, and their mythology where they were chosen, and that their God that chose them is the one God of the universe.
And I believe that Christians have just swallowed the whole Hebrew Bible paradigm, like hook, line, and sinker.
And they have become defenders of Yahweh, defenders of the Torah.
And I believe they're almost under mind control, a spell, a Jewish spell construct.
And instead of telling the Jews that they were never chosen, like I do, or that their covenant and their Bible are fake, Christians play along with the Sharai.
And how are we supposed to condemn Jewish supremacy or these things that the Jews believe that we want to criticize when the Christians are mirroring all of the same ideas back at them?
So I see it as an intra-Jewish squabble.
And let's see.
All of the miracles in the Bible, Christians have to believe and validate all of these preposterous miracles of the Bible.
I mean, you have to believe in Adam and Eve and the talking snake.
You have to believe in a woman turning to a pillar of salt.
You have to believe in a staff turning into a serpent.
You have to believe in Noah's Ark, Jonah in the whale, and then all the miracles of the New Testament as well.
And I ask, what is more likely, that all of these impossible, miraculous events took place a few thousand years ago, or that some ancient Jews made it up.
And I think any honest person would say that it's at least much more plausible that it's just made up.
And why do we have to rely on ancient books anyway?
The Gospels, there's no extra-biblical contemporary documents or artifacts that prove Jesus until Josephus or Tacitus, which are a generation later, 60 years after the fact, is the earliest.
And this is, for the sake of argument, giving you Josephus, which I would argue it's even later.
The Gospels are a bunch of contradictory, unscholarly, uncritical, unknown authors written in an unknown place at an unknown time.
It's not history.
It's not biography.
It's religiously biased, agenda-driven propaganda.
Their goal was to evangelize and persuade new converts to join their cause.
It's not some type of just historical documentation.
I'm almost done here, Dr. Jones.
I know this must be rough for you.
Let's see.
Christians and E. Michael Jones in his book say that Judaism was the one true religion before the time of Jesus.
And I just think when you give them that, it's doing more harm than good because you're validating their delusional claims of being chosen.
You're enabling and almost codependence and it's just contributing more to the problem.
I argue that Christians are all Zionists.
If you believe in the prophecies of Zion and that God has the concept of the God of Israel in Zion, you are a Zionist.
And if you also acknowledge that Judaism was the one true religion, you're almost a Judaism believer as well.
So, I guess we'll wrap it up there.
That's about what, five minutes, ten minutes?
I got no idea.
That was about eight minutes.
Well, about seven minutes, seven, eight minutes.
Go ahead, Dr. Jones.
Well, thank you.
Thank you for that introduction.
I'd like to talk about Christianity, but I'd like to make a distinction first between essence and existence.
And I'd like to talk about the essence of Christianity first.
You're right.
You're right.
I do believe.
I do believe that the Jews were God's chosen people.
I do believe that the Torah, the first books of the Bible, are the word of God.
I believe that God promised these people a Messiah.
And I believe that that Messiah arrived on this earth.
And it was Jesus Christ.
And at that moment in history, the Jews had to make a decision because part of what you're saying is true.
There was an element among the Jews that wanted some type of powerful ruler.
And this wasn't that guy.
This wasn't David.
They wanted David to come back.
This wasn't David.
And so at this point, the Jews have to make a decision.
Are we going to accept this man, Jesus Christ, on his terms, or are we going to make him conform to our terms?
And it immediately leads to a conflict in which Jesus Christ tells the Jews, they start playing the race card.
They say, we are the sperm of Abraham.
We are the seed of Abraham.
And Jesus just ridicules, said, we don't need your DNA.
God doesn't need your DNA.
He can make rocks like this.
And so this conflict comes to a conclusion where they basically conspire with the Romans to kill Jesus Christ.
They kill God.
They kill the Messiah.
And that conflict reaches a point and it's never stopped.
It's never stopped.
And so at this point, we start to get into existence.
Okay.
The essence of the Catholic Church is the Catholic Church is part of this revelation.
The essence of the gospel is that Judaism is in conflict with Christianity.
The essence of the gospels is a conflict.
It's about a conflict between the Jews who accepted Jesus Christ and the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ.
It's never going to be any different.
The immediate conflict after the resurrection, the guards come to the Jews, to the Jewish leaders, and they say there's no one there.
The tomb's empty.
And they said, well, just lie about it.
We'll pay off.
We'll buy you off and you lie about it.
That's what the Jews have been doing ever since.
They've attacked Christianity ever since.
To say that this is some type of controlled opposition simply flies in the face of the facts.
So one of the first examples I'm talking about is Paul, known as Saul.
He comes and he persecutes Jews until he gets knocked off his horse.
And at this point, he realizes that Jesus Christ, the Jews, did kill Jesus Christ, and he was responsible for it.
And he has a conversion, probably the greatest conversion in the history of the human race, the most influential anyway.
And at this point, he's full of zeal and he starts going to the synagogues.
And the synagogues don't want to hear this story.
The conflict is never going to go away between Christians and Jews.
And so they expel him from the synagogues.
And at this point, he has a dream.
And at this point, he sees somebody on the other side of the G and waving to him, like, come over here.
And he decides, I'm going to talk to the Greeks.
I'm going to go over there.
He spoke Greek.
St. Peter could not do this because he didn't speak Greek.
Paul goes over there.
He meets the philosophers in Athens at the Areopagus, and he gives the wrong speech.
He gives the idol worsipper speech that he should have given in Ephesus.
And they all just say thank you and they walk away.
And I'm saying that St. John, who was in Ephesus at the time, knew about the failure, and he wrote his gospel with that in mind.
And he wrote it in Greek, En Arche Ein Ha Logos.
In the beginning, there was Logos, and Logos was with God, and Logos is God.
When he said Logos is God, he made a transfer into a whole new realm, and he brought together the Jewish tradition, which needed to be perfected, and the Greek tradition, which also needed to be perfected.
And he kind of a union of faith and reason that has been the essence of Catholicism, which is the only real Christianity to this day.
Okay?
Now, the conflict did not stop.
It has continued to this day.
And what you have basically is anytime there's some type of disagreement, the Jews jump in and create a bigger conflict than before.
First is the Aryan crisis.
The Jews are involved in that.
It goes up to at this point, the Jews who had rejected Jesus Christ are suddenly now becoming revolutionaries because that's what happens when you reject the Logos incarnate and their temple gets destroyed.
70 AD, their temple gets destroyed.
And now they have no priesthood, no sacrifice, and no temple.
And at this point, they become a synagogue, but they never let go of this Jewish revolutionary spirit.
And so to get to the existence part, what you have here is this ongoing conflict to this day.
This is the axis of human history.
It is the conflict between Logos and anti-Logos.
And every time you have some type of revolutionary movement, it's always Christians who want to be like Jews.
And so there's a sense in which I can understand what you're saying.
Okay.
There is an element of Judaizing in, if you're going to talk about the existence of Christianity, there are Jews, or there are Christians who are forever getting tired of the gospel.
They want a carnal religion, which is the way they see Judaism.
They want lots of possessions.
They want a powerful military.
This is what Zionism is.
Okay.
It is Jewish nationalism.
It is the people, the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ because he didn't promise a worldly kingdom.
And this goes all the way up to the present.
Okay.
As I've mentioned in the Jewish revolutionary spirit, you have Bohemia, 80% of the property in Bohemia in the 14th, 15th century is owned by the church.
There are people who want that property.
There are religious who are tired of living like angels, taking vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience.
These two people come together and you have a revolution, the Hussite revolution, and the Jews are immediately on the side of that.
And they're helping to dig ditches in Prague so that they can overthrow the Catholic Church and institute this heaven on earth of the Judaizers.
It's never stopped.
Puritanism is the same thing.
It's Christians who are tired of the gospel, all the way up to the Christian Zionist of our day, the Hagis of this world, who are now collecting money, $2,500 to help the Jews leave Ukraine.
It has never stopped, but this is never what I'm talking about.
This is not the essence of Christianity.
It is always a departure from Christianity for political reasons.
Adam, I'll go ahead and let you kick off the interlocutor segment here.
Go ahead.
Okay, a couple of preliminary questions.
I'm just curious.
Were you raised Catholic, Dr. Jones?
Yes, I was.
And do you ever have any doubts about if Christianity is real?
Actually, I have never had any doubts about whether Christianity was real, even though there was a period of apostasy in my life.
I remember as a hippie in the 60s, I remember telling this, I was not going to church at this point, telling the Jew that lived across the hall that he shouldn't worry about what to wear because God takes care of the birds of the air and the lilies of the field.
So in a sense, I was preaching even though I wasn't going to church.
So no, I've never really felt that it wasn't real.
And last question.
In preparation For the debate, did you see any of my videos where I lay out kind of my thoughts on Christianity?
I saw the tweet that you sent about the passage you just mentioned.
I was happy to find that there, by the way.
Yeah.
I thought that was a very good idea.
Why did you include that in your book, by the way?
And I'm referring to Greats saying that it's Christianity of psychological warfare.
Heinrich Greets is the father of Jewish historiography.
I quote him throughout that book because he's an important figure, because I wanted to get it from the horse's mouth.
The fact that Greats said something about Christianity is a comment on Greats.
It's not a comment on Christianity.
He has this animus that he tries to control, but it just bursts out periodically.
He's honest about, for example, the Polish Jews.
He's a German, okay?
And he was a completely enlightenment, Germanified Jew.
And he basically held the old student in contempt and said a very telling passage about the study of the Talmud led to the moral corruption of Jews in Poland.
Well, this is important.
So he's an important figure, but I don't agree with him.
I mean, he's got the same animus against Christianity that all Jews have.
Okay, so to address some of your points you were making, you said that Jesus arrived on earth, and the earliest documents we have that say anything about Jesus is from Paul's letters.
And he admittedly never knew Jesus.
He never saw him on earth.
And he also explicitly says in his letters that he learned about Jesus and the gospel just from Revelation and from the scriptures alone, that he spoke with no man.
And he said, Paul says, have I not also seen the Lord?
So the earliest Christians, I mean, I'm not sure if you're familiar with like Earl Doherty's The Jesus puzzle, or that's another question.
Have you read any books on the historicity or the Jesus mythicism, that Jesus is a myth?
No.
Okay.
Well, the idea is that before he was historified in the gospels and before the proto-Orthodoxy Christian sect that supported a historical Jesus won over, that there were celestial Jesus.
So what they did was, what I believe is Paul and the other Christians that he was persecuting before at the time, because he wasn't the originator, that they were scouring the Old Testament, looking for secrets and mysteries and decoding, connecting prophecies to try to figure out when their Messiah would come and what would happen in the end times.
And you said a common misconception that Christians have that the Jews were expecting a military, victorious Messiah.
That's Moshiach ben David.
There are many prophecies about that.
But as you know, there are also many prophecies about the suffering Messiah.
Sure.
That's right.
That's absolutely right.
Right.
Yeah, Messiah.
Isaiah is full of the suffering servant prophecies.
So the Jews at this time were basically in a state of apostasy.
The point is, is that they were expecting a suffering Messiah.
Well, some of them were and some of them weren't.
He kept reminding him.
He had to keep reminding him that, no, no, I'm quoting Isaiah now.
Here is what he is saying.
You know, you should have been paying attention because I'm actually very close to what Isaiah said.
You really need to pay attention here.
He had to keep reminding him that because they got lost in this huge proliferation of rules and myths, mythology, all this type of stuff.
And a lot of them simply couldn't see through these categories of the mind that the Pharisees had created for them.
Well, the point I'm trying to make is that the Jews, the zealots weren't working.
The Jews were being conquered by the Greeks.
And before that, the Egyptians, the Babylonians, and then the Romans.
So they couldn't fake a militarily victorious Messiah, but they could engage in, they couldn't win on the battlefield.
So they engaged in spiritual battle, in theological warfare.
And that's when they created the suffering Messiah who Gets rejected by his people and goes to the Gentiles.
That was all part of the scripture, which is the script, which is the plan.
And that's why it's a deception.
This whole, they rejected him, and that was God's divine plan.
That's what the prophecies called for.
That's what Paul believed.
Paul didn't want them to believe in Jesus.
They're hardened.
Jesus is the stumbling block.
This is all part of the plan to, as bait, to lure in their opposition to follow their God, their Bible, their Messiah.
Well, first of all, they were victorious on the battlefield.
As long as they followed God's word, as long as they were true to the covenant, they were victorious.
Well, because they fell away.
If you're constantly falling away, they had to go into Babylon, the Babylonian captivity.
They had to be punished because of the sins they were constantly tending toward, idolatry.
And I think this is important because what was that idolatry?
It was the worship of Moloch.
And how did you worship Moloch?
Well, you offered your children to him.
You had child sacrifice.
You sacrificed your own child so that you would have the favor of the devil.
Well, this is a constant, I'm saying, all the way up to the present.
What is the one group?
What is it?
Let me finish.
No, let me finish.
Let me finish.
What is the one group in this country that supports abortion more than any other group?
It's the Jews.
Now, when you say the Jews, what do you mean?
I'm talking about the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ, who were the Moloch worshipers.
That's the constant throughout here.
The Jews who accepted Jesus Christ are the Christians.
They're the Catholic Church.
They are the ones that have restored the culture.
They are the ones who are the true line of the true children of Moses, the direct line from Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ.
It's not a direct line.
It's an adoption.
It's a grafted in and adoption.
It's not a direct.
That's true.
That's true.
And they are, Grant.
The Gentiles were grafted in because the Jews fell away.
That's absolutely true.
But that's the straightening.
That's the straightening.
That's the holy, like Paul says.
I don't think it's fair to characterize anybody that doesn't believe in Jesus as sacrificing your children to Moloch.
No, I'm not saying anybody.
I'm saying that group of Jews that there's a son to himself.
And God called for Isaac's sacrifice.
He didn't do it, though, did he?
But first of all, if God tells you to kill someone, you have to follow God.
You have to do what God says.
I hope you don't get voices in your head as you get.
No, I do too.
The problem is, how do you know if God's telling you?
So Abraham was justified by faith because he knew that God told him to sacrifice his son and he was ready to do it.
And God prevented him.
The knife was there, ready to stab his own son, because God is the author of all human life.
And if he takes it, it's not murder.
That was faith.
That was by faith.
And that is why Abraham is our father in faith.
Well, I disagree that Abraham existed.
And I think why are we going to talk?
How are we going to talk about it?
If you're going to say these people didn't exist.
No, wait a minute.
We can't talk about it if you say they don't exist.
Yeah, I don't think the covenant where he split up the animals and God carried the torch through.
I think that's made up.
I think that's fiction.
I think the idea that God's going to chop off the end of his dick and sacrifice your son and you're going to be a holy nation, I think that's just made up.
The Jews just made it up to say that they're chosen.
Well, why did you tell us sooner?
I mean, why did God let us wait so long until Adam Green came along and suddenly informed us that it's all made up?
All these people are delusional.
I'm not the first one to say that.
2,000 years of delusional people.
5,000 years if you add the Old Testament in.
You don't think Islam has been a delusion for 13 years?
Isn't this a little bit presumptuous on your part?
No, no.
Also, let me get back to some of the points you made.
So you said that they were expecting a militarily victorious Messiah.
But then you agreed, okay, there is prophecies about a suffering Messiah.
And there's actually a belief in two Messiahs that's pre-Christian.
And the first coming was Moshiach ben Joseph.
That's the suffering Messiah, the high priest that atones for the sins of the people.
And Joseph is based on Joseph in the Old Testament, Joseph who is rejected by his brothers and then goes to Egypt and then rules Egypt from behind the throne.
That's the template that Jesus, the suffering Messiah, is following to be rejected and go rule from within behind the throne in enemy Gentile Goyam nations, which was Egypt at the time.
That's what's happening.
Well, in a sense, you're right, because what we have are types in the Old Testament to find fulfillment in the New Testament.
So there is a sense in which Jonah is an archetype of Christ.
Jonah spent three days in the belly of the whale and Christ spent three days in the tomb and came back.
Yeah, you're right.
They're archetypes.
They're kind of previews to get people prepared for what's really going to happen later on.
Joseph is a very important story in the Bible because it's basically an explanation of evil in the world and how God tolerates evil, but isn't the author of evil.
This is a significant point.
And it's been for thousands of years, people have understood it and taken consolation and instruction from this story because it's the word of God.
So it's not surprising that people can learn from it.
You see, you believe in the power of Jewish prophecy and Jewish prophets, and I don't.
I think that's much more plausible.
Hold on, let me finish.
Let me finish.
I didn't even make the point.
It's much more plausible that they were just taking verses from the Old Testament and then mixing for source material and then creating a new story, a new mythology from the old mythologies, and then sold that new story to the Gentiles, like Paul targeted the Gentiles.
Mark, the great commission at the end of the extended version of Mark to go out to the Gentiles.
Christianity wasn't for Jews.
It was Judaism for Gentiles because they don't want the Gentiles to be Jews, but they do want them to worship their God, the God that chose them.
That's the whole scheme.
All right, go ahead, Dr. John.
You keep using the word Jew.
This is a new term.
It's really a new term.
And if you go to the Gospel of St. John, it's pejorative.
It's pejorative.
Hebrew is not pejorative, or Israelite is not pejorative, or a child of Moses.
But at this point, the word Jew took on a meaning, and that means rejecter of Jesus Christ.
That is the point of the Gospel of John.
He uses the word Jew 71 times, and there's only one time when it isn't pejorative.
This is talking about the great break that has taken place, this dislocation of tradition, of the traditions of the Jews, where finally the people who call themselves Jews have broken with Moses, and they are no longer a children of Moses.
That's part of the story here that you're neglecting.
That's the bait that they lured you into accepting.
Your definition of Joseph.
Why is it bait?
Why is it a bait?
Because it seems alluring that you can be saved from their Messiah that they rejected.
And if anybody, if they were trying to co-op their opposition, that's a perfect way to do it.
It's not their Messiah.
It is the Messiah.
The Jews have no control over the Messiah.
He said himself he came only for the lost sheep of Israel.
Right, he did.
But they have no control over him.
They can't control him.
They tried to control him.
And he said, no.
The Messiah is meant to conquer the Gentiles and the nations.
And it's to come from the tribe of David.
That's the Jewish misunderstanding that Jesus came to correct.
Jesus came.
He's not a military leader.
In a sense, he will be in the second coming.
You could say that the Christians conquered Rome.
I think this is what Graetz is trying to say there.
But it certainly wasn't a military conquest.
They converted because it's a better explanation than the Romans had.
And at a certain point, they realized these are fables.
We're not going to get anywhere with fables.
This happened in Greece long before, 300 years before Christians.
Calling it better would be subjective.
We don't know what the last 2,000 years of Roman control instead of Christianity would have been.
There's no telling.
But we disagree on this.
I didn't finish talking about the Greeks.
The crisis in Greece came when Socrates said basically, these are all myths.
These are fairy tales.
He was referring specifically to the Iliad and the Odyssey, which were the basis for Greek education at that point.
You shouldn't be teaching these children fairy tales.
It creates bad habits.
And they knew that.
The Greeks knew that.
And they were basically trying to find some type of alternative to those Greek fairy tales.
And they killed Socrates, but he lived on in his students, Plato and Aristotle.
And they were real, people, they realized these myths are myths.
They're not real stories.
And so when the story of Jesus Christ comes along, it's a real story.
It's history.
It's not a myth.
And they knew that.
Why is it nowhere in history then?
Why did God leave no remnant for us to see to conclusively show that he really was a huge silence?
No, you're ignoring the testimony that's there.
The gospels.
No, the gospels are from decades later.
So what?
So what?
You expect that all dialogue and every word is four decades later?
I never write a story while it's happening.
You wait four decades.
You don't think you forget anything?
Sometimes I do.
Sometimes I do wait four decades.
I mean, I've talked about like the slaughter of cities, about what happened in Philadelphia.
Yeah, that was four decades.
I waited.
I was trying to figure out what happened.
Now, I'm not defining what I ate yesterday for breakfast.
People forget things.
That's not a reliable way to know that something historically happened.
And also, you talked about Christianity is a syncretic religion.
It's a blend with Judaism and Greek and Hellenism, right?
You said that's what Jesus was-the fulfillment of that combination.
And I agree with you, but this happened with Philo before Jesus died, before any of the gospels.
No, Philo was a follower of Greek philosophy.
That's true.
He was.
And he talked about the Logos, and he talked about Zachariah 6 and the Logos.
So what's the difference?
What's the difference between the people?
That's the story.
That's like the predecessor to the Jesus story.
That's where it originated.
And why didn't Philo mention Jesus?
He was in the perfect place.
He had the means, the motive.
Because he was a Jew.
And he couldn't accept the people.
And he didn't talk about the dialogue.
Let him talk.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Go ahead, Dr. John.
Because the Logos had to progress.
There had to be some type of progress here because Greek philosophy had reached an impasse.
The Aristotelian God, the uncaused cause, the unmoved mover, was transcendent.
But so what?
Does that concern us?
We don't even know whether it's a human, a being or not, whether it acts.
It's just that thing.
And so it's transcendent, but it doesn't affect us.
And then Plato's God is the demiorgos, who is concerned about us.
But as soon as he enters time, he's not transcendent.
So you've got an impasse.
And Philo simply could not resolve that because there's only one way to resolve that.
And that is what the Christian way was, which is basically the Logos incarnate.
He couldn't accept it.
This is a crucial issue here.
That crucial statement is, and God is Logos.
I'm sorry.
And Logos is God.
Is that metaphysical?
Or is that revelation?
Well, it comes really close.
There's never going to be a time when you can simply rationally move without a bump into things like the Trinity.
It's never going to be a problem.
Hold on, let me bring it to the Trinity.
Wait a minute.
You're interrupting me.
You're interrupting me.
Okay.
I'm not going to take up all your time.
I'm just trying to finish my thought.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Okay.
Okay.
So there's never going to be a time when it's going to be seamless, but it's pretty close.
It's pretty close.
And Philo simply couldn't make that leap.
And so, yeah, he talked about the Logos, but he couldn't understand the Logos because at that point, you needed revelation to clarify the Logos.
You couldn't get by.
The classic example of the people that missed the boat, the train left the station without them, are the Muslims because they got their idea of the Logos from the Nestorian heresy.
So you think it's just a coincidence that Philo was writing about, he was allegorically reading the Torah and blending it with his knowledge of Hellenism.
And he's talking about Joshua, the high priest, is the Logos, the one called rising, all of these things of the Jesus story that goes along with the celestial logo.
He pre-exists before time.
He's like the firstborn son, all of these things.
If he's talking about all that while Jesus is supposedly walking around on earth, I think it disproves that Jesus is actually around.
How could he write about the Logos, but not about the actual living Logos?
No, first of all, this is the, I've talked about the impasse in Greek philosophy, and Jesus Christ arrives on this earth as a way of resolving this impasse.
And he couldn't accept it.
He couldn't accept that idea that Jesus Christ was the Logos incarnate.
So he failed.
I think Jews were adopting and appropriating pagan beliefs so that they would more easily accept this Judaized version because they were targeting them something that was familiar.
No, wait a minute.
I'm getting confused at this point.
Okay.
Now, the Jews, yes, there were Jews who were Hellenizers, and they were trying to come to some type of synthesis.
They couldn't do it.
There's only one way to come to this synthesis.
And it was Christianity that solved that problem because the solution is the Trinity.
And obviously, no Jew can accept the Trinity.
So therefore, as I said, the train of Logos left the station without them.
It's that simple.
So when you say, when I hear you talk about Logos, it sounds to me like you're saying Jesus is Logos.
So Jesus is the truth because the truth is Jesus.
Like it's almost like begging the question in a way.
You see what I'm saying?
No, I'm not saying that.
So when you're rejecting Jesus, you're rejecting truth.
So Jesus is truth because he's truth is kind of the way I hear that argument.
No, it's not what I'm saying.
I said that Logos is God.
There's nothing circular about that.
We also say he's word.
You say he's the word.
Well, obviously the word, we're using the word.
That means he comes from the prophecies.
He comes from the word.
Moses wrote of me.
They derive this new character allegorically from the Old Testament.
You're right.
You're talking about two parallel streams in history.
The Hebrew stream, which is basically by revelation, and the Greek stream, which is basically thinking things out by reason alone.
And they converge with Christianity.
There are, however, moments in the Hebrew scriptures where you get an inkling of what's going to happen, as when Moses is looking at the burning bush, and he says, I'll go down and talk to the Hebrews, but tell me who you are.
And God says, I am who am.
I don't think Moses understood that because he's talking about in metaphysical terms that Hebrews simply could not understand.
God is self-subsistent being is how Thomas Aquinas would talk about it.
But these people didn't know, but it's there.
It's there.
The convergence is there in the mind of God, even though these two strains of history are running parallel to each other, sort of unbeknownst to each other.
I got to say, I'm enjoying this conversation so far.
Thank you, Ralph and Dr. John.
Well, you're quite welcome.
By the way, let me pause it there because there's a question or two, or at least a couple comments.
And then I wanted to pick it up somewhere too.
And then I'll let you get all your questions into.
And there are a couple questions about, you know, will you debate people or whatever?
I'll ask those at the end because they don't really necessarily fit in with the combo.
Let's see.
Tony Castle says, I think it's absolutely fair to call all non-Christians Moloch worshipers, even if they don't realize that you're a satanic Moloch worshiper, Adam.
You see, that's what's so problematic is that Gentiles are programmed that anybody that doesn't believe in Jewish myths and the Jewish Bible is the epitome of evil and satanic and the devil.
And you're ultimately doing the work for the Jews when you do that, forcing their Messiah and their paradigm on the rest of the world.
That's not my modus operandi.
It is not the modus operandi of the Catholic Church.
I have said many times, many times, that Muslims and Christians worship the same God.
And I get in trouble with a lot of people when I say that, but it's true.
It's true.
So I'm not going to demonize people.
Well, I'm not a Muslim, though.
I understand.
I did not write the Jewish revolutionary spirit to demonize Jews.
I wrote the Jewish revolutionary spirit to explain Jews to the rest of the world because they're always dishonest about talking about themselves, but also to convert the Jews.
And believe it or not, some Jews have converted because of what I said, because we are by nature creatures of logos.
And they intuitively understand when you say that to them.
They are rational creatures, even though they have this computer program imposed on them in the name of the Jewish race.
I have a friend, actually, Jewish, who converted to Catholicism, actually.
Now, let me just, I know that's just a side note, anecdotal evidence there.
But now let me see here.
Shout out to him.
He's pretty cool.
Now, let's see.
EMJ, well, you can see that if one was uninitiated with any ideology, Stoicism offers a clearer and more rational ethical system than faith-based Christianity.
One is impious by ignoring their God-given reason in place of faith.
What would you say to that?
I, first of all, I don't ask anyone, anyone to ignore their reason.
That is simply not what I do.
I am saying that logos is God.
Okay, that means God is reason.
That's just the essence of what I'm saying.
That is the essence of Christianity.
That is the essence of what St. John said in his gospel.
So if you are following your reason, God bless you.
That's all I can ask you to do.
Now, I'll just give you a moment here.
I had a long conversation with an Iranian woman on the Internet.
You know, we started off, and I said, you know, it's like, I don't want to do Catholic-Muslim dialogue.
I said, let's just be honest.
Let's just engage in unprotected intercourse, is what I said.
That was my joke.
Okay?
Ha-ha.
That's a joke.
Anyway, so we did, and we just talked honestly to each other.
And at a certain point, she just said, you're right.
You're right.
I believe in Logos.
You're absolutely right.
And then there's a moment where, okay, that's great.
That's great.
And then there's a moment where things aren't going well.
They're not going well for this lady, because life is full of times when things are not going well.
And then she says to me, now what?
And I said, you must be baptized.
And at that point, she flies into a rage.
What are you talking about?
What's that got to do with Logos?
Well, in a sense, that's what we're talking about here.
You can, Augustine tried it.
He was going to, Ossium Liberale, he's going to withdraw from the world.
He's going to contemplate essences in the platonic sense of the word.
And he's going to rise to the realm of platonic essence.
Well, he couldn't do it.
And on top of that, he suddenly realized, well, wait a minute, I don't have to do it.
Because the Logos has come down.
That's what the incarnation is.
And he established a particular way to follow him that didn't exist before.
And it involves joining a community.
And the way you join that community is by getting baptized.
And so if that shocks you, there's nothing I can do about it.
It is shocking.
It's scandalous.
And there's no way I can get around it.
Because you simply can't think your way into the Logos.
You can't approach it, but you can't think your way into it.
You write in your book that the Jews are the synagogue of Satan.
Their father is the devil.
And it amazes me that you believe that if you just plunge them in water, that they can join your church.
and that they're a brother in christ i'm curious um a gentile that rejects jesus are they uh just as guilty do you have the same hostilities for them that you have as this isn't about me or my hostilities i'm saying if you reject jesus christ if you re if you reject baptism you cannot be saved now there are people in human history who did not know who jesus christ was if you live in the amazon rainforest in 1500 BC.
You could not know who Jesus Christ was.
And so that is not rejection.
But if you reject, if you reject Jesus Christ, you cannot be saved.
No.
Okay, a Jew and a Gentile, they both know exactly what Christianity is, and they both choose to not believe it.
Are they both going to be held responsible the same?
Do you view them in the same way?
Is a Gentile that rejects Jesus a spiritual Jew in your view?
Some of them are, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, what do you think Marxism was?
Does anybody that doesn't believe follow the people?
What do you think Marxism was?
Wait a minute.
Say that again.
If a Gentile rejects Jesus, does that make him a spiritual Jew?
It can.
It can.
I just mentioned Marxism.
Jesus Jesus is a Jew.
So you worship the Jew, otherwise you're a Jew.
That's what I'm hearing from you right now.
This is too confusing.
I don't know what you mean by that.
If you worship the Jew.
No, I'm saying if you read.
I've lost a train of thought here.
What were you saying about it's too complicated.
If you reject Jesus Christ, you cannot be saved.
It's that simple.
Now, there are people who worship God as they understand them.
I've been in mosques in Iran.
These are sincere people worshiping God as under, they understand them.
That's up to God.
They're not baptized.
Baptism is necessary for salvation.
So what does the perfect world look like for you?
The whole world to worship Jesus and believe in the Torah as the word of law?
Of course that would be the perfect world.
That's what the rabbis exactly what the rabbis want.
A world domination by a Jewish God.
No, the rabbis want the exact opposite.
They want everyone to prove.
They don't want the word of Jesus to be spoken at all.
They do not believe on Moshiach ben David.
You want Moshiach ben David to come.
You're like co-religionists.
You're almost identical.
You want the same thing in the end.
The whole world following, worshiping Zion and the Jewish Messiah.
No, no.
Sure you do.
Of course you do.
How could you say that?
You just said, I want a military Messiah.
I want the world to worship some military figure.
I don't believe that.
Is Jesus not going to come in the second coming?
Tell me, do you think Jesus is going to float down in the clouds and save us in the end?
Is that what the Catholic Church teaches?
Yes.
Do you want me to recite the Apostles' Creed?
I believe everything that the Catholic Church professes.
Well, I don't know how he's going to come.
If you want to describe it as floating down on a cloud, that's your business.
He says he'll come the way he left and he left floating away and ascending in the cloud, right?
That's his business, how he returns.
But I do believe that Jesus Christ is going to return to judge the living and the dead.
You're absolutely right.
That's why that's part of my belief as a Catholic.
You're absolutely right.
Do you believe that when Jesus died on the cross, that the prophets and priests rose from their graves and walked around Jerusalem, like the gospels say?
I believe everything that the gospel says.
Why do we see so many miracles back then and then nothing today where it's just like, no question, that's a miracle?
Why do we have to, why is God apparently hiding?
What is Jesus waiting for to come down and destroy the devil?
This is a good question.
This is a good question because it was in the movies in the 1950s.
Ingmar Bergman made a lot of money making movies about God's silence.
Eli Wiesel is another guy that talks about God's silence.
So I'll tell you why God is silent.
God is silent because the first voice of God is your conscience.
Is the voice inside of you telling that what is right and what is wrong and not to violate the word of God?
Okay.
And so if you're Ingmar Bergman and you sleep with every single actress that you come in contact with, I think the word of God, sorry, you are silencing the word of God, which is the first, which is your conscience.
So don't expect an apparition if you're not going to listen to your conscience.
I do agree that the word of God comes from the consciousness of humans.
And that's why I think it's so dangerous that you're delegating the authority for people to speak from God from the Jews.
You believe that they're liars, but you also believe all of their books and all their prophecies.
No, I don't.
First of all, the Talmud, I reject completely with all of its blasphemies.
That's the Jewish people.
Even though it proves Jesus, even though it secretly proves Jesus.
Evidence, surely.
It's evidence, evidence that Jesus existed, because these are the people who hate him, and the people who hate him have to acknowledge that he exists.
How could they hate somebody?
They call him Moshiach ben Joseph, the one that is pierced.
Anyway, that's a side issue.
Good point, though.
You made a good point, though, that the Jews hate Jesus Christ, and it's in the Talmud.
So that's, in a sense, testimony to his existence, isn't it?
No, no, actually, it's not because there's Jesus Ben Stada.
It's referring to two other Jesuses, 100 Jesus Christ.
No, it's not that Jesus.
There should be a lot.
It's actually, I'm surprised that there's not a whole lot more about Jesus in the Talmud.
You think that they would have been talking all about it?
This is the disputation of Tortoza.
The rabbis who converted to Christianity said, look, there's all these blasphemies in the Talmud.
Jesus is the son of a whore and a Roman soldier, and he's buried up to his neck and extreme in hell.
And what do you say to that, rabbi?
And the rabbi says, oh, that's a different Jesus.
This is the beginning of Jewish comedy.
No, the boy is referring to Ba-Lamb, but that is Jesus.
It is code for Jesus.
I don't disagree with that.
We're talking about the other one that was stoned.
Talmudic says that Jesus was stoned, and that's not what happened.
So it's not talking about the same Jesus.
This is a tribute.
Even those who set themselves up against you do but follow your will in a perverse way.
So the Jews proclaim Jesus.
That's what they do.
That is their existence.
Their rebellion against Jesus proclaims his existence.
Okay, let me bring up a new point here now.
You said in your opening statement that the conflict of the Jews between the Christians has been like, you know, battling on throughout history.
And I completely agree with that.
That has been the dialectic that has dominated.
And it's all part of the Jewish paradigm arguing over who the Messiah is.
And Romans 11, it says, as far as the gospel is concerned, they, the Jews, are enemies for your sake.
So they're not, there's like superficial enemies, only according to the gospels.
But it says, but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs.
God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
That's what Paul has to say.
Right.
Right.
And you agree with that.
So they are loved on account of the patriarchy.
And the time of the Gentiles will be fulfilled.
Right.
And it says that.
What do you think I'm working for?
I'm working for the conversion of the Jews.
I don't hate the Jews.
I love the Jews.
I love the Jews because Jesus Christ says we have to love our enemies.
The Jews are our enemies.
They are not just that.
If you're going to talk to St. Paul, St. Paul says the Jews are the people that killed Christ and they are enemies of the entire human race.
That's what they are.
That's why I am obliged as a Christian to love them because they are my enemies.
And the best thing I can hope for is that they accept the Logos incarnate and my life.
I've been dedicating this.
And certainly that book, The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit, is dedicated to that end.
I think it's a disastrous worldview to love your enemies.
The Jews don't have that mindset.
And look at how this is playing out.
It amazes me that the Bible teaches to love your enemies, but to hate your own family if they don't follow Jesus.
It is amazing.
You're right.
And the hate your own family is just a kind of exaggeration that is typical to the Hebrew language.
But yeah, you're right.
It is strange because the default setting is to hate your enemies.
Of course it is.
And the Jews epitomize this because hatred is a Jewish virtue.
That is why it is completely incompatible with Christianity.
And you think that's a religion to be hated by Christ.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
It's completely incompatible with Christianity.
And if you think this is some type of fake, phony opposition, controlled opposition, what about all the people that died?
Yeah, a lot of people suffered.
And it's a deception on them as well.
Do you not find it a little bit convenient that it's their religion, basically, that the Gentiles hate them?
And then they give you a religion where they're the villains, but this is a sacrifice.
They're willing to be the villains in the story if it gets you to believe that they're ultimately God's chosen people.
That was the sacrifice.
They're the villains, but they're central in your worldview.
And look at what's played out.
You say, how could it be controlled opposition?
Yet you agree that the church has been hijacked, Vatican II, Schofield.
And I would argue, if the scriptures are so flawed that it could so easily be misinterpreted and used to Judaize or make ultra-Zionist Christians that believe that it's anti-Semitism or it's a sin if anti-semitism is a sin you're cursed if you curse them blessed if you bless them it seems like the bible could have a little better clarity and not allow that to happen i think you i think you should talk to god about this and tell him to create human beings that don't have free will it's
very simple why did he do that he knows that we have free will he gave us a book that could be so easily corrupted why did god make a mistake and create human beings that have free will he should have just created robots well we the world is full of robots they're called animals allow the snake in the garden why did he uh make eve susceptible to the snake it's all part of the plan why did he have the jews reject whose plan is this whose plan who's the author of this plan well it's the jewish plan but
they ascribe it to god and it only has power because the gentiles have uh believed in it so here's here's a little bit change of subject now romans 1 it says uh that he jesus will have obedience from the nations this is fulfilling prophecy make the gentiles obedient in romans 15 this is genesis obedience of the nation shall be his it says um so romans 15 it says isaiah said
paul says isaiah said that there shall be a root of jesse and he he that shall rise to reign over the gentiles in him shall the gentiles trust this is the role in paul's context is jesus the suffering messiah is reigning over the gentiles we are enslaved to the jewish messiah and he is the jewish you're just you're just changing the the term here no just because you're enslaved reigning over and enslaved they're not just the same i have a question reigning over i have a
question for you good i have a question for you are you baptized no i've taken lots of baths though but nobody said a prayer before miss the magic words so you were not raised as a christian i was raised christian but i didn't believe it and i thought it was culty so i never so you were baptized i can tell that it was a cult initiation ritual and i thought it was creepy that's that's why i didn't you were baptized though despite lots of pressure no i wasn't catholic so i wasn't baptized as a child to protect so
you are you a baptist it was adult baptism no it was church of christ okay so you so you are a christian i was raised christian my family's christian but no i'm not a believer i i get the sense that i'm dealing with someone who believes in sola scriptura i keep feeling that i'm dealing with some type of protestant fundamentalist here well i find that very surprising because i'm saying that christianity is a jewish hoax and jesus didn't exist that's not very protestant but but
the the tactics you're using are like sola scriptura well i'm sorry i don't know what that means but it means why would you want to worship a messiah that was meant to conquer the nations and rule over the world with his chosen people why would you want to worship a god that said all the things why would i why would i worship a god who had no power of course i want god to rule over the world of course i do that's what god is he's powerful he's a king would you prefer who would you prefer uh i
don't i don't want to worship somebody that threatens me i don't want to worship somebody that threatens me with eternal punishment if i don't that seems like a slave you're you're kind of you you design your god okay good no no i'm not creating gods i'm not creating you're creating an anti-god i just don't believe in the jewish god you do i don't that that's why it's not a jewish god this is not a jewish god no this is that's your category of the mind god of israel isn't that where the jews are from my answer is
no no you're you're you're using this category of the mind to create a fiction that doesn't exist it's not a jewish god the jews were the chosen people chosen by god god is not jewish why do you keep saying this this is this is not a person he doesn't have the blood of a jew but he is the god of the jews the god of israel that's the point god is not bound by the jews who worship him or the jews who reject him god is not bound by anything so why are you talking as if
he is you're talking why would you want to worship is he a creation is god a creation of the jews is that what you're saying yes yes i knew that they created god not the other way around yeah well that you can believe that good luck okay um Why would you want to worship a God, the God of the Old Testament, that says that the Jews will reign over the nations?
Why would you want to worship a God who had no power?
God has to have power.
What you don't understand is God's power.
I'm trying to finish a sentence here.
Prove God's power.
Go ahead.
Here we go.
I can't finish a sentence and then you come up with something ridiculous, like prove God's power to me.
Do you exist?
Does something exist?
Yeah, that proves I exist.
That doesn't prove that God is powerful.
Does something exist?
Does God exist?
Does something exist?
Does anything exist?
Yes, yes, there is a something could not bring itself into existence, could it?
Neither could Jesus.
Neither could God.
Who made God?
Because it would have to exist before it existed, right?
Why can't the universe exist before it existed if God can?
Why are you making a special rule for your deity?
I didn't make a special rule.
You are.
He doesn't need to be created, but everything else does.
Because he's the creator.
Yes.
Okay.
Well, who's the problem is you don't understand.
It's an infinite regress.
That's what you're saying because you don't understand metaphysics and you don't understand what a creator is.
So it's illogical to say you have one rule for you.
I'm trying to do it.
Hold on, Adam.
Hold on.
Adam, I'm trying to do you a favor.
Don't make your ignorance normative for the rest of us.
Okay.
It's a bad strategy.
There's nothing ignorant here.
You just expressed it when you talked about the infinite regress.
You don't understand what it is.
So don't make your ignorance normative for the rest of us.
The first cause, you get stuck in infinite regress.
What do you mean I don't know what it is?
If there's a first cause, it has to be uncaused.
And so there's no infinite regress.
If there's a first cause, it has to be an uncaused.
So you're saying God is the first cause and he doesn't need anything to cause God.
Absolutely.
But why does the universe need anything to cause it if God is?
Because the universe can't bring itself into existence.
Nothing can change.
You can't bring himself into existence.
God did not bring himself into existence.
He did not do that.
Because we're at a stalemate on the existence of God.
I understand that, but the problem is because you don't understand metaphysics.
That's the problem.
Your strategy is basically the fundamentalist sola scriptura strategy that you learned as a child that doesn't apply here.
It just doesn't apply.
I didn't learn this as a child.
I just, I thought about this on my own.
It's common sense.
I understand.
You created God.
Like my little niece just asked me that the other day.
Who created God?
It's one of the first questions.
Right.
And only an ignoramus would ask that question.
No.
No, it's one of the biggest philosophical questions of all.
No, it's not.
No, it's not.
It's you, maybe.
Oh, can we move on?
This is a stalemate.
We're not arguing if God exists.
We're arguing about Christianity.
No, what did you mean, though, by an ignoramus?
Like only an ignoramus would ask that.
No, it's it's that's exactly what Aristotle said.
If he says that everything is, this isn't his metaphysics.
That's why I'm saying this.
It's not my term.
It's Aristotle's term.
And he said, people who argue for an infinite regress, they're an ignoramus, and you really shouldn't argue with them.
That's what he says.
So you don't understand.
Ignoramus isn't an argument, though.
What's the actual logical explanation on why?
I just gave you the lot because there cannot be an infinite regress is logically impossible and you don't understand it.
But the fact that you don't understand that there cannot be an infinite regress is a comment on you and not the infinite regress or philosophy.
I'm trying to straighten you out here.
I'm trying to explain this to you and you don't understand it.
Okay, so we'll just have to move on to something.
As well, I'm trying to straighten you out.
Who created God?
God created himself?
That's how you're going to break rules and everything.
You don't understand the difference between a creator and creation.
That's what I'm telling you.
You don't understand the difference.
I'm not saying words to things where it's begging the question.
It's arguing your point in the premise.
No, I'm not.
You are.
And this is a stalemate that I'm not interested in arguing because we're arguing: is Christianity a Jewish deception?
Not Aquinas and if there's a God in philosophy.
No, Dr. Jones, earlier.
We already laid it out.
We disagree.
It's stalemate.
That's right.
No, no, it's not a stalemate.
You just want to keep saying, I don't understand when I do understand to try to win a point.
No, I can't help you if you don't understand.
I can't help you understand.
No, it gets into this back and forth.
But the fundamental question.
You're just filibustering till we get to the end because I wanted to get some more points.
No, you don't want to talk about it.
Okay.
I agree.
You don't understand.
I'm not repeating the same thing.
You don't understand it.
You don't understand it.
You don't want to talk about it.
And so I guess we'll have to move on.
But I mean, this is not what a debate is.
It's not what a debate is.
You're fixated on scripture, which you don't understand.
I understand.
And I'm trying to say, okay, you don't understand.
Why is the standard so complex and convoluted that you need experts to interpret it anyway?
And why can nobody agree on what those interpretations are?
That's problematic in itself and shows it's not divine.
Why do we even need to rely on ancient books?
Why can't God speak to everybody at once so it's clear?
This game where they're hiding from us and we have to have faith.
We cannot listen to knowledge and reason and wisdom on earth.
No, God speaks to us as he chooses to speak to us, not as you.
You demand that God speaks to you in a certain way.
Well, good luck.
If God wants me to believe in him, I need to see proof.
And I see proof everywhere that he doesn't exist.
No, you ignore the universe.
You ignore the proof because you don't want to face it.
You don't want to accept it.
No, I think you don't want to accept.
I think Christianity is.
It's always like you.
And it always makes you feel comfortable.
This is a standard Jewish tactic.
It's called reversal.
You know, you project your thing onto me.
It's not going anywhere.
It's not going anywhere.
I think you projected your thing onto me.
I know.
I told you you were just going to say that.
You all reversed beforehand, and then you do a projection.
Can someone rescue us?
Can someone rescue us?
That way, earlier.
Wait, wait, wait.
Earlier in the debate, Dr. Jones, you can't rescue us.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Is God's plan for the Catholic Church to be taken over by Jewish influences?
No.
Is that God's divine plan?
That's called sin.
I said there's essence and there's existence.
Once you get into existence, you have to factor in sin.
And sin is part of human history.
And the fact of the matter is that anytime you move away from the purity of the Catholic faith, you're going to end up being ruled by Jews.
Furious Catholic faith.
What about all the pedophiles and all the murders?
You guys used to murder people for not believing in Jesus.
Yes, it's true.
This is bad.
Now we're getting serious.
Now we're getting serious.
I wouldn't talk about purity in the Catholic Church.
That's all I'm saying.
Notice that's now what do you guys?
What do you say to that, Dr. Go ahead, Dr. Jones?
I was going to bring up something else, but go ahead if you want to respond to that.
I'm dumbfounded here.
This is such a stupid.
This is so.
I'm dumbfounded because I criticize the record of the Catholic Church.
Because you didn't understand the word purity.
You've got a dirty mind.
So I say purity and you start thinking about pedophilia.
Oh, I have a dirty mind because the Catholic Church is full of pedophiles.
Please.
No, you brought it up.
I said purity.
You said pedophile.
That's your mind bringing something into it.
Oh, come on, Dr. Jones.
You're bringing this down in the dirt with common sense.
I said purity.
You said pedophilia.
Sorry.
You said purity of the Catholic Church, and I'm disagreeing that.
I said doctrine, purity of doctrine.
Oh, I don't remember hearing doctrine.
I heard purity.
I know, because you project your own idea.
That's not what you project the idea.
You project your own ideas.
You're projecting your own ideas onto the church.
That's the problem.
That's all anybody does.
All anybody can do is interpret the book.
Yeah.
No, there's something other than projection.
Projection is Jewish.
You've got a bad case of it.
Says the guy that believes the Torah is the word of God.
I absolutely believe that.
I'll say it again.
I'll say it again.
The Torah is the Word of God.
Right.
And you believe that Judaism was the one true religion before Christianity.
There was no such thing called Judaism after.
You believe in Yom Kippur?
Is a real thing?
Of course not.
You believe in the Passover and the Exodus happened, and that's all historical?
Yes, the Passover is the word of God.
That's a part of salvation history.
Yom Kippur, whatever you want to call it, after the temple has been destroyed, they created a new sacrifice.
Why can't you finish?
You have cut him off.
I want to talk about Yom Kippur.
You moved on.
I know, it's fine.
We can go back to it.
But if you keep interrupting me, it's going to be unpleasant.
So stop interrupting me.
Okay.
Now, go ahead.
Go ahead, Dr. Jones.
Finish your thought.
Hold on.
Wait, wait, Adam.
Hold on.
Go ahead.
Go ahead, Dr. Jones.
You want to finish your thought?
I reject everything that is in the Talmud.
The Talmud is the word of man created to keep Jews from accepting Jesus Christ.
Is that too hard to understand?
It doesn't even say much about that.
But you focus on the Talmud as bad because you believe the Torah is good.
You're a defender of the Torah.
The Torah says outrageous things.
I would never want to defend the Torah and what it says about Gentiles that were drops in the bucket and God hated Esau and bashed the babies' heads against the skulls and all of the genocides and the mass murders for the chosen ones.
It's a terrible book to have to defend because it's pinned on the beginning of the Bible.
If you take the Bible out of the Catholic Church, it becomes a revolutionary manifesto.
It's that simple.
That's all of the problems that we're talking about were created when some guy took the Bible, namely the Old Testament, out of the Catholic Church and created a new religion.
The Baptist being one of the Anabaptists.
You guys, Christians always use this excuse that, oh, they're not the real Christians.
But in my point of view, there are no real Christians.
So Christianity is a manifestation of whatever people make it.
So anybody that says they're Christian, they do something.
That's not an argument.
They're representing Christianity, in my view.
That is, in essence, Christianity.
If the majority of all the Christians in America are evangelical Zionists, then Christianity is Zionist.
You can't just think they're not the real Christian.
You don't understand.
They think you're not the real Christian.
Wait a minute, let me finish.
Go ahead, Yola.
You didn't, you didn't understand.
You didn't understand the distinction between essence and existence.
That was the beginning of my argument.
What did I miss?
There's an essence to Christianity, okay?
It's the gospels, it's Revelation, it's the epistles, and so on and so forth.
Once you get involved in history, people are going to pick and choose.
They're known as heretics, and that is causing the problem.
That's existence.
Existence is always bound up with some type of sin, and that's the problem with human history.
Now, if God had created robots, we wouldn't have this problem, but God gave us free will, and free will means you can reject what is good and what is true.
Do you really have free will on what you believe?
Can you choose to believe, or do you just believe what you believe and you can't help it?
No, you have to choose to believe.
You have to.
There are some things that you have to believe, reason.
And if you don't believe things according to reason, you're irrational and you're not worthy of being a human being.
There's some things that you have to accept on faith, and that's what Revelation is.
So you accept the testimony on faith.
They're two different.
They're both necessary.
You're talking about reason and rationality.
I find it very irrational that the only way that God could forgive the world that he created fallen in the first place is to incarnate himself in a man, sacrifice himself to himself to fulfill his rules.
That's irrational as an explanation to me.
You find that irrational.
I agree.
I agree.
You find that irrational.
Okay.
That doesn't change the rationality.
You're talking about your mind, not about the thing itself.
You believe in Yom Kippur, and Jesus is like the new version of Yom Kippur.
He's the scapegoat with the blood atonement to forgive you for your sins.
We're repeating yourselves.
Look, it's been over.
This is the shit I wanted to mention earlier.
My last question.
I just explained to you about Yom Kippur.
You ignored that.
No, no, you didn't.
You cut me off, and then I didn't get a chance to bring it back up.
Yom Kippur, you believe in Yom Kippur.
That's scapegoat blood atonement sacrifices.
You believe this is reasonable and rational that if you kill a goat, the Israelites are forgiven.
Their sins are forgiven for shedding the blood of somebody else.
You think that's reasonable?
If it's before Jesus Christ, God had a temple sacrifice, he ordained a temple sacrifice.
After Jesus Christ, it's idolatry and it can't save you.
I've already believed that.
The temple was consecrated by God and the temple was holy.
Yes.
So you're a temple cultist then.
All right, let me ask him.
Let me ask some questions.
Even in the temple, you believe in the Holy Temple just like the Jews do.
How am I supposed to condemn them?
How am I supposed to mirror all of their beliefs?
This was the lead up.
There was a religion of the Hebrews that was the preliminary stage to the Messiah.
After the Messiah came, that religion is obsolete.
That covenant is over.
It's obsolete, and there's a new religion taking his place.
Why is that so hard to understand?
I understand it perfectly, but I understand also that when you validate the idea that the Jews have a covenant, that you're playing into their paradigm and ultimately contributing to the problem.
Instead of telling them that they're delusional and that they were never chosen at all and their books are myths, you play along with it and go along.
And that's why Christianity is controlled opposition.
Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of your covenant.
So it's over.
I love Semitic Christians beneath the people.
That's not that everywhere.
And even anti-Semitic Christians benefit Jews because it gives them their victim complex, keeps them from assimilating.
It reaffirms their belief that they are chosen.
And it makes turns us into the villains.
It discredits Gentiles when you're a Christian and you say that people, my religion is that people is cursed by God and they rejected their Messiah who was meant to conquer you to begin with.
To say all people are satanic, that gives them their persecution card and they've painted Christianity.
Let Dr. Jones respond throughout history.
Let him respond.
Then we're going to ask these questions real quick and go ahead and finish it up.
Go ahead, Dr. Jones, respond.
Then we'll ask these questions real quick.
Go ahead, sir.
No, I feel as if I said it already.
I don't know exactly how to respond at this point, but basically, no, it's over.
That religion, that dispensation ended when Jesus Christ came.
The temple was destroyed.
There is no Jewish religion anymore.
It's a phony religion that was created to keep Jews.
I'm talking about Talmudic Judaism.
The Talmud came into existence 300 to 600 years after Christ.
So it's a new religion whose only purpose is anti-logos in one way or the other, which is to prevent Jews from accepting Christ.
So, no, the force in history that has fought against this consistently for 2,000 years is the Catholic Church.
The fact that the church has been weakened now is something we all have to admit.
I admit this thing.
It's been weakened now by a misinterpretation of the gospel that it's going to have to end.
It's going to end sooner or later.
We're going to have to get back to the tradition.
And the tradition relationship is what I've already expressed with St. Paul.
The Jews are the people that kill Christ.
We're never going to get away from that.
It's part of the essence of Christianity.
Because they rejected Jesus Christ, they became enemies of the human race.
That's part of Christianity.
It's never going to go away.
At a certain point, the heresy will be dispersed and we'll get back to that position.
And that's why I'm trying.
That's why I wrote that book, The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit.
All right, now let me run through these questions real quick.
I like Dr. Jones, but I don't understand the point about Protestants not being Christian.
I'm a practicing Methodist.
Why do I need a Christian?
Christianity is very dividing for the Gentile world.
No, wait, hold on.
This person says, I don't understand his point, Dr. Jones's point, about if I said that, I misspoke.
Methodists are Christians.
Everyone who is baptized is a Christian.
Okay.
I misspoke.
If I said that, that's not what I meant.
Okay.
I'm saying that the churches that came into existence, the Protestant churches, are not true churches.
Okay.
They are sex.
They are basically going out of existence.
The Reformation was a mistake.
It should never have happened.
It was a looting operation.
But I think I said this in conjunction with asking Adam if he were baptized.
If you are baptized, you Are Christian.
That's the end of the story.
All right.
Now, let's see.
I'm looking through some of these others.
Oh, I do see this one.
Dr. Jones, is it logical for the first Catholic Pope to have been a Jew?
Is it logical?
That's what he's, yeah, that was his question.
I don't know why logic has anything to do with it.
No, wait, hold on, let him answer.
Hold on, let him answer.
Go ahead.
Okay, I was rephrasing the question to what I wanted to hear him answer.
Sorry.
The first Pope was St. Peter.
St. Peter had, if you want to talk about it, had the same DNA as the people who shouted, crucify him.
If you want to call them Jews, that's okay.
But that's not the way John uses the word Jew.
So he was a child of Moses.
He was a Hebrew.
He's an Israelite.
Jews are rejecters of Jesus Christ by this point.
So it's a semantic issue, but Peter was the first Pope, and he had that DNA.
All right.
Yeah, Big Tech, I'll let you in in just a minute, man.
I'm about to finish.
I mean, if you got a question, but we'll just, I'm trying to get these super chats in.
Let's see.
I went ahead and let you in.
But let's see.
Have you noticed that Christian scholars use many quotes and concepts from philosophers, philosophies that predate Jesus, but nobody that champions philosophy ever uses the Bible to bolster their point?
I guess that's more of a comment.
This is another one, kind of a little bit to what they just asked.
What does EMJ think of Protestantism and other kinds of Christianity?
I think you kind of talked about that there, though.
But if you want to follow up on that, it's that the Reformation was a looting operation.
It was a mistake.
It destroyed the unity of Christianity.
It's ending.
I'm talking to people like Frodie Mittjord, grew up as a Lutheran in Norway.
The church evaporated and it's creating an identity crisis among that generation.
And I'm saying this is time to come back to the original church, which is the Catholic Church.
Let's see, King Flock says, Adam asked why miracles only happened in ancient times.
The miracle of the sun, aka the miracle of Fatma, happened in 1917.
Pope Francis recognized the miracle in 2017 and canonized the two children.
Let's see here.
I'd just like to add something to that.
It was reported, Miracle of the Son was reported in a Masonic newspaper that went there to discredit the whole thing.
So that's a good example of a miracle happening in the 20th century.
Glaucon says, Adam is a...
I know.
Glaucon says, Adam is an atheist.
He doesn't even believe in God.
He just wants to stick to talking about the Bible and ignore theology.
What do you say to that?
Well, theology is not the belief in God alone.
That is religion.
No, I'm not an atheist.
I'm an agnostic.
I don't rule out the possibility of some type of thing that you would call God, but I don't believe in the God of the Bible, and I don't believe in Jewish prophets or prophecy.
Now, what about this?
Jews don't worship God.
Jews worship Seth, Egyptian God of deceit, chaos, and underworld, known as a Hellenized, known in a Hellenized Bible as Satan.
That is what Jesus meant when talking about the synagogue of Satan, a cult of desert demons.
Seth, Jews wage war against God.
I haven't heard it.
What is that, Dr. Jones?
Have you heard that before?
No.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
I'm just facing.
I was thinking I really missed something there.
Okay.
All right.
Fair enough.
Good.
Let's see.
I got one.
I guess this guy was asking if you'll debate the creator of Jews for Hitler.
Adam.
I don't know who that is, but he was asking if you would debate that guy.
I'll have to look into it.
Has he debated anybody else?
Because I'm one of the big boys with Dr. Jones up here now, so not any scrub can come on and just everybody.
Now, let's see.
Now, there's some more super chats, too, and I'll play those when we go, but I'm just trying to get the question, get the questions in because time's a little tight.
Let's see.
Adam, do you know any ancient languages?
Somebody asked that.
No, English.
I'm a fluent in Viking, ancient Viking rune language, also.
All right, now there's a couple couple more on Odyssey.
Let's see.
We asked that one about the Pope.
For Dr. Jones, is not truth, is not truth discernible, verifiable, quantifiable, and falsifiable.
Christianity and the word of God is none of those.
How can, therefore, Christianity then be the truth?
Truth is the correspondence between mind and the thing.
Okay?
So if Christianity makes a statement, it's verifiable, but you're talking about someone who was an eyewitness.
So St. John says, I was there.
I saw that.
And there's a sense in which you have to accept that on faith.
You have to accept the testimony.
There's nothing that he says that contradicts reason, even though there are things like the resurrection in there that you have to accept by faith.
So it's a combination of both.
There's nothing in scripture that contradicts reason.
There's some elements that transcend it, but nothing contradicts it.
Shout out Kevin McCarran over on Entropy as well.
I'll try to set that up for you.
He's been a guest on the show.
He was showing some love over there.
I had to thank you for hosting this debate.
Let's see.
Adam, have you spoken to Inspiring Philosophy?
He had even Destiny stumped on the God question.
That's what he said.
I don't think you have.
I have never spoken to him, but I have seen a little bit of him in debates, and I'm not impressed at all.
All right.
Now, earlier, Dr. Jones, you said it was a little presumptuous on Adam's part.
What does he mean by that?
We never did get to that.
I guess about that.
Okay, that was way earlier in the debate.
I had it written down here to follow back up on, and I can't even cite the exact part.
But I guess.
I got a couple of questions, Ralph, if we have time.
Well, it's up.
Go ahead.
I had one more that I've been waiting to get out and respond to also.
Okay, get your last question in, and then Big Tech can get one question.
I'll let you guys finish up.
Go ahead.
So, Dr. Jones, it seems to me that your biggest problem with Jews is that they refuse to get baptized and accept Jesus.
You agree with that?
I'm saying that the Jews rejected Jesus Christ, and they have been a problem in human history ever since that moment.
They have become, because they rejected the Logos, they became revolutionaries, and that's what they've been for 2,000 years up to this day.
And you cannot understand the problems of this world unless you factor that in.
This is the problem with conservatism.
So we have the war in the Ukraine.
You could not understand what is going on in the Ukraine if you refuse to say the word Jew.
So yes, it's important.
All right, Big Tech, real quick, get your question.
Hold on, Ralph.
I have one to respond to.
Go ahead.
If all the Jews just accepted Jesus, that would make you content.
You'd be happy?
I would be very happy.
And then the whole world would be worshiping the Jewish Messiah.
Isn't that what the Jews wanted to begin with?
You can't see this term.
King of the Jews.
If he wasn't the Jewish Messiah, then how could the Jews reject him if he wasn't their Messiah?
He's not a Gentile Messiah.
When you say the Jewish Messiah, you're talking as if the Jews have some type of ownership over the Messiah, which they thought they had, and he rejected.
So you shouldn't use that concept from their holy.
No, he's not.
Absolutely not.
He was.
Absolutely not.
The whole concept of God.
Without Romans, because he's not a Gentiles and crush them.
The Messiah was promised by God.
He's not a Jewish concept.
All right.
Real quick, Big Tech, because we're way over time.
I appreciate you staying a little bit longer.
Real quick, Big Tech, did you have a question?
Quick question for Adam and then one for E. Michael J. Both of them are quick.
Adam, if atheism is true, then how come atheists are always so cringe?
And E. Michael Jones, I heard a wise man tell me that the fool seeks to understand so that he can believe, but the wise man believes so that he can understand.
And I want to know what you think about that.
Theology is faith-seeking reader.
Fides querens intellectum.
Faith-seeking understanding.
That's true.
That's true.
Yeah.
All right.
That was really a J. Dyer tier question, say, in that logic, that atheists are so cringe.
You know, if you've ever gone on Christian TikTok, it's the cringiest thing you'll ever see in your life.
Not to mention all the goofy, ridiculous con artists, televangelists, millionaires, all the charlatan faith healer frauds, all the Christian Zionists that worship Israel, Noahides in training.
Like, that's pretty cringe to me.
All right.
Now, just go ahead and get your last word in, Adam.
Then we'll let Dr. Jones get the final word and see what he wants there at the end.
I really appreciate you staying a little bit longer here.
It was so good.
I did see the clock.
I knew we were over, but you guys were going so good that I just let it keep going.
So my apologies.
He's enjoying himself so much.
I hope so.
All right, let's go for another hour.
Let's drink it up.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
We're not leaving here until Adam gets baptized.
All right, go ahead, Adam.
I'm going to sprinkle some water on you.
Yeah, go ahead.
Just finish up.
I'm going to give Dr. Jones the last word since he was.
So the most important part is you've got your, you know, you're upset that they rejected their Messiah, but that means it was meant.
Hold on, let me finish.
This is part of the script.
It says it in Isaiah 50, 53.
It says it elsewhere: wisdom of Solomon.
That's part of the plan.
And if the Jews, like I've been reading in these books, if the Jews believe and acknowledge that Jesus was actually their hidden Messiah all along and he was ultimately working for them and they convert in the end, then they it was, you realize that the whole rejection was a ruse to set up a controlled dialectic that they've milked all the way to achieving their end times prophecies, which it's so convenient that Christianity, end times prophecies, all benefit the Jews.
It's return the Jews of the homeland, help them build their temple, help them set up an Antichrist, a mark of the beast to rule the world, Armageddon where everybody dies.
This is all the Jews' prophecies as well.
They're the big brother.
They're the originator of the religion.
They have all the secret esoteric plans, and they're the ones that are going to be successful.
And I think that Christianity has been a controlled opposition and that they're going to destroy them in the end.
And once they've served their purpose, once the fullness of the Gentiles come in, that's when the Jews will acknowledge that he was their hidden Messiah.
And then the whole world will be worshiping the Moshiach ben David, which was the prophecies all along.
Adam Greene, thank you.
Much appreciated.
Dr. Jones, thank you as well.
Take it away.
Yes, I think Adam finally convinced me.
It is a controlled dialectic.
It's controlled by God.
And the dialectic is the way God moves in human history.
This is what the German idealists said.
This is what Fichte would say.
These were all German theologians.
They all were trying to figure out how the Enlightenment fit in.
There is a sense in which there is a plan here.
There is a plan.
It's God's plan.
He is the one who is the author of this plan.
And it is a dialectic.
There is a sense in which the dialectic is the way God, the Logos, moves through human history.
Now, that being said, this dialectic does not violate human freedom at all.
God takes into account human freedom because he created beings to be free, because freedom is rationality.
Morality is practical reason.
God created them knowing all the people who were going to reject him because this is part of God's eternal plan.
He knew it in advance.
He knew, though, that because some people rejected the reason when other people did not reject it, that there was something greater that could come out of this whole thing.
That is the whole point of the dialectic.
You start off without some type of unreason.
Reason comes involved and it assimilates that thing.
We now know something we didn't know, and now we live at a higher level.
That's what human history is like.
It's the progress of logos, greater understanding throughout history.
And one of the things that causes greater understanding is evil.
Now, God does not will evil, but he allows evil because he knows a greater good can come out of it.
And so we're back to Joseph that Adam mentioned the Jews sold Joseph into slavery.
It was an evil act.
He ended up coming to the Pharaoh's assistant in Egypt.
And then there's a famine in Israel.
And they come and they're confronting, begging for food.
And Joseph finally finally reveals himself.
He says, the evil that you did to me has been turned by God's power into good.
That is the dialectic of human history.
That is God's plan.
So you're right.
There is a dialectic there.
So in the good in that note of agreement, we will end.
Thank you, gentlemen, both.
It was a great event tonight, great debate.
Maybe even a part two down the line.
I don't know.
Just my suggestion, but I really enjoyed it myself.
Thanks to you both.
Tell people where to find you, Dr. Jones, real quick.
Go to culturewars.com.
All of my books, all of the books I mentioned there are available there, culturewars.com.
Logos Rising, you really need to read that book.
The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit, you really need to read that book.
Go ahead, Adam.
Tell them where to find you real quick.
Thank you so much to Dr. Jones and to Ralph and the Kill Stream, Odyssey and Cozy.
I really enjoyed it.
I thought it was a good discussion.
And you can find my work on Odyssey, no morenews.org.
That's K-N-O-W and Twitter, Telegram, Gab, all those places.
I'm banned from big tech, but still holding on, at least with Odyssey and Bitch.
We all got a little taste of that.
Thank you, gentlemen.
I appreciate it.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Awesome night tonight.
Thank you so much.
Oh, I'll have to stop these.
Hold on.
Welcome, Jensen.
It's pouring in.
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