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Dec. 17, 2021 - Know More News - Adam Green
02:15:04
Is Christianity a Jewish Deception? Orthodox Jew Responds | Know More News LIVE w/ Adam Green
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Welcome to No More News Live.
I am your host, Adam Green.
Thank you for joining me once again today, Thursday, December 16th, 2021.
We are streaming live on Odyssey.
We'll be posting the video to BitChute.
And today we're doing a follow-up to a video that was cut a little short last week.
I've got more material I need to go through.
We got Duvid back.
And last week we did, it had been over a year since I'd had Duvid on the show and brought him on to discuss Christianity and Kabbalah.
Today is the follow-up.
We're going to pick up where we left off.
Is Jesus a Hebrew hoax?
Orthodox Jew responds.
Thanks for being here again, Duvid.
Yeah, thanks, Reverend.
Back.
So just to do a quick recap on where we were last week, I was talking about how Messianic Jews, possibly Orthodox Jews, view Jesus as, and many Christians, as Moshiach ben Joseph, the first suffering Messiah, high priest Messiah.
This is two Messianic rabbis, both affiliated to a degree with Chabad.
Do you believe that Yeshua Mazarit is Moshik ben Yosef?
Yes.
You do?
Yeah, is Mashiach ben Yosef.
Jesus, Yeshu equal tri of Yosef.
Jesus of Nazareth is Moshiach ben Joseph.
I forget, Duvid, did you say what is your take on that?
Do you think he is filling that role?
Well, I mentioned that it's remotely possible, but it's largely irrelevant because Moshiach ben Yosef gets martyred.
So Jesus.
Did Jesus not get martyred, though?
Well, I mean, it could fit the profile because he gets martyred and lays the path for Messiah to come.
But correctly identifying Moshiach ben Yosef is somewhat relevant to believers.
Identifying Mashiach ben David, Moshiach ben David's the one that we're going to follow and is going to accomplish the important text, Mashiach ben Yosef.
God forbid that his martyrdom is important and lays the path for the coming of Moshiach ben David, but is significantly less important.
Yeah, the martyred sacrifice of the firstborn son.
It's kind of a theme, correct?
Now, let's follow up.
We didn't play this clip last time, but it's very telling.
Rabbi Jason Sobel, Mysteries of the Messiah.
Just another take on Jesus as Moshiach ben Joseph.
Listen to this, and then I want to hear your thoughts.
Okay, Duvid There are a couple of other parallels between Joseph and Jesus that are worth mentioning.
First, Pharaoh and the Egyptians recognized that God was with Joseph and received Joseph before his Hebrew family received him.
This pattern happened with Yeshua as well.
Although the apostles and first followers of Yeshua were nearly all Jewish, the Gentiles, the nations of the world, were the ones who first received Yeshua on a large scale.
Today, there are over 1 billion Gentiles who claim Christianity as their religion, but there are only about 200,000 Messianic Jews.
Second, Joseph's brothers did not recognize him at first when they traveled to Egypt.
Joseph is a picture of Messiah, son of...
Do you think that that's a real Hashem secret?
Well, Mashiach ben Yosef is an extremely important concept, and the parallels that you could make to Christianity and Jesus are important.
One, because God forbid, Joseph, if you want to look at like a martyrdom and resurrection where the brothers think he's killed, but in reality, he's sold into slavery and survives and rises to power like crucifixion and resurrection, and that he's, you know, God forbid, killed by his own people, that Joseph is not killed by Gentiles.
He's killed by his own brothers and then rises to power among the Gentiles.
So it's an extremely important concept.
I would guess your average Jew probably never even heard of Mashiach ben Yosef.
And even your average Orthodox Jew, it's not a well-known, understood concept of it.
Among the sages and the Kabbalist, it's an extremely important.
Meshik ben Yosef is an extremely important concept.
Okay.
Joseph, the hidden Messiah, the one who will be rejected by his brothers and hidden from them.
Isaiah 53, 3-5.
So Isaiah 53, 3-5, he will be rejected by his brothers and hidden with the Gentiles.
I mean, is this rabbi just not openly admitting that Jesus is in secret really working for them, but going to the Gentiles first by this fake rejection?
Well, it's an archetype that you could claim that Jesus fit into.
But I mean, it's really an anachronization because you like, who was this Jesus?
Was there a historical Jesus?
Verse an anachronization looking in the past, saying that Jesus fits the archaependo of Meshik ben Yosef.
Even if you take like the Bart Ehrman stance that Jesus was a historical person and that he was crucified, that is enough there to fill the Moshiach ben-Joseph role.
I don't think that's what happened, but you know, all that's important is that martyrdom, really.
Here, let's continue on a little bit more.
Joseph, like the Messiah, intentionally hid his identity from his brothers.
He made himself unrecognizable to them, Genesis 42, 7.
Another reason Joseph's brothers did not recognize him was because Joseph walked, talked, and looked like an Egyptian.
He was a Hebrew concealed among the Gentiles.
The same is true of Jesus.
At his first coming, he was literally the son of Joseph, fulfilling his role as Messiah, son of Joseph, the hidden Messiah.
Joseph's brothers also didn't recognize Joseph because they thought he was dead.
The rejection of Joseph represents the Jewish political and spiritual leaders who have rejected Yeshua throughout the centuries.
Joseph and his brothers were the founders of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Only a remnant of Jews became followers of Messiah Yeshua, but they were the ones who originally brought the gospel to the nations.
The large number of Gentiles who embraced the promised Jewish Messiah believed the God.
Didn't bring it to the nations, targeted the nations.
...
which is Jewish to the core.
Jesus said to the Samaritan woman, salvation is from the Jews, John 4, 22.
These Gentiles embraced the Old and New Testaments, which were written almost exclusively by Jews.
However, the Gentiles quickly forgot and rejected the Jewish roots of their faith.
As a result, Jesus was concealed among the Gentile nations as Joseph was concealed among the Egyptians.
The Jewish Yeshua has become the Gentile Jesus.
Joseph's brothers did not recognize him until he took off his Egyptian garments and spoke to them in Hebrew.
I am Joseph, Genesis 45, 3.
If Yeshua's Jewish brothers are going to recognize him today, Yeshua needs to dress in Jewish garments and be put back into his Jewish context.
This context is key to preparing the way for the Messiah's return.
Joseph's name in Hebrew totals 156, which is the same as the phrase, who is this coming from Edom?
Isaiah 63.1.
According to Isaiah, the Messiah must come out of Edom.
In Jewish thought, Edom is equated with Rome and Christianity.
Yeshua has been in the church in disguise, but in the end of days, Messiah will open the eyes of the Jewish people and reveal himself as Joseph did with his brothers.
I believe that this time has come.
God is starting to move in amazing ways among the Jewish people, preparing the way for the Lord's return.
The fact that you are listening to this book is just one sign of the times.
The eyes of the church must be open to the Jewishness of Jesus.
His Hebrew identity must be restored, and the church must embrace the Jewish followers of Yeshua, Messianic Jews, as Pharaoh embraced Joseph.
What are you thinking, David?
Yeah, this isn't mainstream Jewish interpretation, because as I said last week, that your average Kabbalist sage interprets those verses to refer to martyrs in general.
And God forbid, Judaism has an extremely large number of martyrs.
In fact, classically, any victim of the Holocaust, any victim, any person who dies what we'll call from anti-Semitism is included among our martyrs.
So to put it specifically upon Jesus is more a Christianizing of a concept that is generally applied to any martyr.
In fact, if you're a Jew, God forbid, a lot of Jews are descended from, you have family that died World War II and consider our relatives, our ancestors, martyrs.
And we say that all of our martyrs, all of our ancestors that died for being Jewish, paved the path for the eventual redemption, not specifically just Jesus.
Would you say this is, is this next thing I'm going to share with you?
this common in in Habad Lubavitch a common Habad belief given that it comes from the Ari Isaac Luria this same Ariza he had a chidush he had a chidush And he says, Yeshua Notsui, the one that started Christianity, the one that came, that was a student of Yeshua bin Pachia.
He's the Gilgul of Esau.
He's the Gilgul of Esau.
Reincarnation of Esau.
Esau died as Neshama came back as Yeshu.
Arizal, the Arizal Kedosh, says, Esauv, Gilgul, Yeshu.
I heard a Chidush.
Is that something that you knew before Birkness started talking about this?
I had heard that, and it's largely disputed among the sages.
And generally, that's a minority opinion because Jesus does not fill the archetype of Esau.
One thing that, you know, usually Jews are reincarnated as Jews and Gentiles would be reincarnated as Gentiles.
And Esau is more a warrior that, you know, that he would be reincarnated as...
To say that a pope or a king, like Charlemagne.
They've been living by the sword as Esau.
Or Paul.
I mean, even Paul is a Jew, but to say that, no, I mean, Jesus, there are some sages who said it.
It's speculation about reincarnation.
But I would say the archaype that is fulfilled by Esau is not the typical understanding of Jesus.
Jesus doesn't live by the sword.
Jesus isn't a hunter.
He said, I come not to bring peace, but a sword.
Well, that's just one verse, but I mean, relatively, that Jesus was not a man of the sword.
Yeah.
Well, you know, there's arguments that there was a historical Jesus and he was a zealot and they carried knives or carried swords.
Because there's verses like that.
But, I mean, Jesus does fill the role of Esau, though.
And Esau's guardian angel, Samuel, he's the accuser of the Jews, of the Pharisees, called them hypocrites.
And, you know, that they're the synagogue of Satan and the devil and stuff is their father.
They play the adversary role.
Jesus is obviously the adversarial Jew that set up the dialectic of Christianity that's been the main adversary.
Jesus is the villain in Judaism.
And Esau is to persecute Jacob as well.
We discussed this last week.
And then saying that, no, it's the church.
He tests them to idol worship.
That's another role of Satan, right?
To test you, tempts you with idol worship.
It's not Jesus himself that fulfills the role of Esau.
the church that fulfills the role of Esau.
I mean, there are some sages you could He's hidden and concealed because Joseph ultimately benefited his family over Egypt.
Did he destroy Egypt or just saved his family because of his power in Egypt?
Oh, yeah, he took over Egypt with the grain.
From a Judeo perspective, the identity of Jesus is not that important.
The important thing is the identity of the church.
And if you're looking at a reincarnation, you're talking about the same play being re-ran every generation, that there's different actors, but the soul.
And so if you're saying that who Jesus was might be of historical phenomenon, but the question is, who's in charge of the church in this generation?
So correctly identifying whose reincarnation Jesus was is less important than, as I say, they say that the church itself is under the angel of Esau.
I see the distinction you're making.
I've seen other rabbis explain it that way as well, that Jesus necessarily is an Esau, but that the church and his, he almost went temporarily to become Esau in a way, is how they say it.
Okay, you'll like this one now, all right?
God forbid.
Duvid is known to say the phrase, God forbid, a time or two.
We have Romans 11, King James Version.
I say then, hath God cast away his people, meaning the Jews.
This is Paul speaking to the Romans.
Has God cast away the Jews?
God forbid, for I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin, and a Talmudic, I should say, pre-Talmudic oral law.
And then it says here, have they stumbled that they should fall?
The stumbling block, it's to be the stumbling block, and they're hardened and blinded to it, like it said in Wisdom of Solomon and Isaiah.
But rather through their fall, salvation is to come unto the Gentiles for to provoke them to jealousy.
What's your thoughts on that verse?
Well, I said, I'm not a believer in the prophetic or divine spirit behind the words of the New Testament.
Well, Paul essentially largely wrote over half the books in the New Testament.
He largely created Christianity.
His letters come before the Gospels as well.
And we're talking about this theme of being hardened and Jesus being a stumbling block and not understanding the mysteries, or else you wouldn't have killed him, the suffering Messiah figure.
I'm saying we're seeing the blueprint for the Christian deception all over the place is the way I see it.
I mean, you could say that if you say that if you're going to say that Paul orchestrated the deception or the writer of Paul orchestrated the deception, I'm saying almost no Jew, certainly a rabbinic Jew, believes that Paul was a prophet or that there's even a divine inspiration or divine providence to the words of Paul.
So if you're saying that Paul is the creator of the Christian cult in modern-day Christianity, that you yourself are raising up his status to a status the Jews don't give him.
Well, you know, I got to disagree.
Look at what this rabbi says about Paul.
The Council of Jerusalem by James, the brother of Jesus, who had assumed leadership of the early Jesus movement, is instructive.
The decision of the council was to permit Paul to teach Gentiles to observe some of the Noahide laws.
So according to this rabbi, the Sanhedrin got together with James, the early leader of the Christian sect, who is the Christians say, oh, he was the brother of the Lord.
That just means you're a Christian.
You're a fellow believer.
You saw the revelation of the Jesus story hidden in the scriptures.
So he says Paul was commissioned by the Sanhedrin to go teach Noahide laws to the Gentiles.
And lo and behold, Maimonides says Christianity is preparing the way to be the Noahides in the world to come.
Yeah, but the historical Jesus and your question, the historical Paul.
So Paul did not know Jesus.
Paul came on to spread the movement.
So if you're going to talk that there was a conspiracy and it was orchestrated, so to say, by the rabbis, I mean, you could say that the mission was to spread Noahide laws and because maybe Jesus was so popular that they used Jesus as a method to an imperfect method to spread the Noahide laws, which is said that Maimonides says as an anachronism, not necessarily that the rabbis instigated it, but just that God works in mysterious ways.
And looking backwards in time, you could see that God has a purpose behind everything and that likely that that was the purpose of the church for the greater unfolding of the biblical prophecies, the Hebrew prophets that we do believe in.
The prophecy was that all of the Gentile, all the nations would flow onto Zion, their wealth, and believe in the God of Israel and worship him.
But they couldn't become, the nations couldn't become Jewish.
So they set up an antithetical Noahide type of religion to get the Gentile world to abandon their gods and their culture and their ancestors and their history and replace it with the belief, the worship of who the Jews believe is Satan.
They believe he is Esau, Samael, the adversary.
They believe Jesus is cursed and hanging on a tree.
They say, blot out his name like he's Haman or an Amalek.
Right?
Yeah, man, saying your own conspiracy doesn't really add up.
You're calling it a conspiracy, but I'm right about their perception of Jesus.
Well, I mean, because that's inacreistically, because we believe that God runs the world and everything has a purpose.
And looking backwards in time, that we could see the church and Christianity has largely played this purpose, but not because beforehand there was a they that conspired to do it, just because God's will is manifested through history.
And then looking at historical events, the rabbis and the sages interpret how that is God's will being manifested.
Okay, well, so you're making the argument that it's there was no they weren't, there wasn't some Jewish script writers that came up with a plot and controlled opposition cult and then put it into motion.
I don't know.
Some could have just been a few people.
Yeah, I mean, there could have been a few rabbis that sincerely followed Jesus and believed that he was Messiah and resurrected and based their understanding on the Hebrew prophets, but that say that it was the they that did some sort of SYAP psychological operation that purposely put forward a false Messiah to the Jews.
Borderline seems ridiculous.
The whole New Testament narrative is going to the Gentiles and making the Gentiles obedient and fear Yahweh and hell and not worshiping the...
And Judaism kind of has the perception of Gentiles as like impulsive, you know, goyum, cattle-like, you know, unintelligent, meant to serve them type of attitude.
Well, I mean, historically, the Jewish people are seen as God's sheep and God's flock.
So if the Christians take on like the new Israel Jewish role to be seen as a sheep, I mean, you're almost contradicting yourself that you're saying like that it's Esau, Jesus is Esau, and then you're saying like he's the sheep, but he's saying like no, the sheep are who's following him.
The sheep are the ones that were tricked, being led into the slaughter by the Judas goat, by the scapegoat that goes to Azazel.
And you've heard the Bjorkness stuff, the Yom Kippur Kabbalah explanation, that it's like a bribe so that he doesn't accuse the Jews, but becomes their advocate and scapegoats the Gentiles with the sins.
Yeah, because there's a lot of contradictions in there because Esau by nature lives by the sword.
He's a wild man that, you know, the book of Genesis says desires to kill his brother Jacob.
And metaphorically, the sages could say later that Esau is really the one who's going to get killed and Jacob's going to persevere.
But if you're looking at it as a conspiracy, which one is it?
Is the church the sheep?
Or is the church the one who wants to kill Jacob living by the sword?
And you're saying that's the prophecy, like I told you last time.
Well, they did.
Esau living by the sword is like fighting the wars and taking over the world in a way with empires, Rome, and then the Christian Empire, and then persecuting the Jews.
That's what Esau hates Jacob.
Yeah, Esau is like the older brother of Jacob, the Jewish people.
So, I mean, the church, if you want to look at that, or even the Western world in a modern understanding, is like the wild, untamed older brother of Jacob that bears a grudge against his younger brother, but at the same time fights his battle and fights our enemies for us.
So that in Esau's heart, he wants to kill Yaakov, but God wills it that instead of killing Yaakov, he ends up fighting the wars and battles of Jacob on his behalf.
And that's kind of the double-edged way that the Bible frames it.
It's exactly What it says in Genesis, the blessing to Esau, that he's going to live by the sword and he's going to serve Jacob.
But when Jacob misbehaves, that he'll turn the sword against Jacob.
Yeah, it's Esau will subjugate the world, and then in the end, basically, Jacob will take it from him.
Yeah, but I mean, that's so looking back, that's why the rabbis understand the church and Esau in that manner.
And it makes sense both ways that the church has persecuted the Jews and the church or the Western world in general has fought the battle on behalf of the Jews and it's laid out in the vision of the way Abraham and Moses writes in the book of Genesis as the vision of how history will unfold with the descendants of Jacob and the descendants of Esau.
I agree.
Christianity has been working on behalf of the Judeo-agenda, the Zionist agenda.
Or the whole West in general.
Christianity, I mean, really, Esau is going to be, according to the prophetic understanding, is going to be the driving force of the whole West in general.
Yeah, Esau is Western civilization, as it says on Chabad's website and basically everywhere.
Here's Legends of the Jews by the famous Louis Ginsburg.
First, Esau or Rome or European countries will subjugate the whole world, but in the end, Jacob will rule over all.
The older of the two will serve the younger, provided this one is pure of heart.
Otherwise, you will be enslaved by Esau.
You said that last week on the show.
Yeah, I mean, God forbid, if you wanted to put it like in a Hollywood movie plot, like Esau in his own head plans on taking over the whole world, and he's going to defeat all of the enemies, and then he's going to turn his sword against Jacob.
But the prophets say that Esau will turn the sword and defeat all of the enemies of Jacob, and then Jacob will defeat Esau so that Esau's plans will be foiled.
But Esau in his own mind thinks that he's going to defeat the whole world and then defeat Jacob and then take over the whole world.
But in reality, it's Jacob who is going to be the bearer of the birthright, and Esau will have done this service on our behalf.
So that's kind of like Bible prophecy 101.
And you could and say that the sages have been basically saying that these every generation for thousands of years have been repeating this understanding of history.
Sorry, Duvid is basically just saying this is the way it is.
Here, let's see if there's any more here.
It's a generic understanding of the Bible prophecies.
It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
Instead, we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood.
Clearly.
Okay, Sanhedrin sent him there.
Oh, this is where I wanted to go.
This is interesting.
Rather, through their salvation is come unto the Gentiles for to provoke them to jealousy.
It's almost like the Gentiles are just being used as like a pawn or a set piece to make the Jews jealous that they're saved.
Isn't that kind of weird?
It's a little insulting, like we're just, you know, not the important ones in the situation, according to Paul.
And that you've only stumbled, but you're not going to fall.
God forbid.
He says, God forbid both times, just like you.
So basically, according to Paul and Christianity, Jews aren't really cast away.
And that Christianity's purpose is to Make them jealous.
So it's still like about them and for them.
And Christians or Gentiles are just like a set piece in this in a way.
Well, you could look at it two simple parables to understand.
One is, you know, like you were talking to that Christian preacher, and he was, you know, saying that he thinks this is true because these people are becoming better people and they're getting off the drugs and they were in gangs and various things.
So you had a friend that was a pretty bad person and he joined a cult, but it's causing him to become a better person.
So you might warn him, like, hey, this is kind of a dangerous cult.
Like, I'm not sure you should get so caught up with it.
But at the same time, you see that this cult is helping him get rid of his bad habits and bad behavior.
So you don't want to necessarily say, like, you got to get out of this cult because the cult is producing positive behavioral changes.
And then also the way the Kabbalists lay out is that God kind of uses our own evil inclination, bad behavior, bad desires against us in a way that, you know, like if you had a child and your child starts doing all this great behavior, but they're doing the great behavior for a bad purpose.
And so you don't want to tell them, like, oh, like, you know, whatever bad purpose, you know, they think something at the end is going to happen that is really forbidden.
That if you told them, like, you know, like, like the end, you're not going to get the prize.
And then they stopped doing all this effort on the behalf of earning the prize.
That God in that way kind of uses the carrots and sticks that will allow the people to do the right thing for the wrong reason.
And then at the end of the day, after they've done the right thing, you know, say that the wicked work and the righteous will reap the reward.
So the wicked will do the toil for the purpose of achieving wickedness.
And then, like the Romans, they built the bathhouse and the roads and the various things, not because of altruistic reasons, but because they wanted to have immoral sexual behavior and various sinful behavior.
And therefore, they built these things so that the righteous would be able to reap the rewards.
But Esau himself, at the end of the day, if he becomes righteous, he will be able to reap the rewards.
And if he doesn't become righteous, then it will be as if God had tricked him and he did all the work on behalf of the righteous.
And God.
The Zohar says that Esau has no share in the world to come.
There's contradictory statements about what's going to happen with Esau in the end, is what I've seen.
Yeah, because Esau, if you say his heart desires evil, and at the end of the day, even though he paved the path for Jacob and the revelation of the prophecies and the utopian society, because Esau's true desire was evil, he'll have to be destroyed.
But let's say there's free will.
And if at the end of the day, Esau said, like, no, I wasn't doing all this so that I would be able to get revenge and kill Jacob or indulge in forbidden sexual pleasures or whatever other sinful behavior may have been the intention that caused him to work so hard for the goal, but chooses to be righteous, then Esau also will be able to have the reward with the righteous.
But that's the way the sages and the Kabbalists lay it out, that God kind of tricks people, uses people's own evil, selfish desires against them in the way that the evil people aren't going to work hard on behalf of the righteous.
The evil people are going to work hard on behalf of fulfilling their evil desires.
So God tricks them and makes it look like they're going to get their evil desires and lets them do the work on behalf of the righteous.
And then at the end, they're destroyed and the righteous weep the benefit of their work.
Yeah, I think they targeted the Gentiles with the evil desire to have the special covenant with God.
And you're the ones that are going to be in heaven.
And you're the new chosen people in a way.
You're the new Israel.
You have the covenant now.
I think they do appeal to that type of theological one-upping everybody else.
But how about this one, too?
basic understanding of the verses and the prophecies, and I guess, so to say, our understanding of how God created the world and Jewish-Gentile relations in general.
And it's not necessarily rigged against the Gentiles.
God deals justly with everybody.
And so if your heart is evil and you're doing things for evil purposes, you're eventually going to be destroyed.
But if your heart is righteous and it turns out you did for the righteous reasons, that you will share the reward with the righteous.
King James, Romans 15:8.
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God to confirm the promises made unto the fathers.
So other ones translate this as servant of the Jews, servant of the Jews, because the Jews are the ones that are circumcised.
So here Paul again is saying now that Jesus was a minister to the Jews to confirm the promises made by the patriarchs or the prophets.
Do you agree with that that Christianity has ultimately been the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecy?
It's been the vehicle, meaning that, as I said, the prophets lay out that the righteous, that the wicked toil and the righteous weep for the reward.
Jacob lives in the tent and Esau's in the field, and Esau doesn't plan on working in the field for the benefit of Jacob.
And Esau is tricked by his own evil desires into working hard in order to support Jacob in the tent.
So if that's the system that's laid out, and if the church becomes the vehicle of Esau to, so to say, trick the Gentiles into working hard in order to lay the grounds for the eventual coming of the utopian perfected world,
and then at the end of the day, the Gentiles will see that were they truly trying to bring the Messianic era and the perfect world in utopian society, so to say, God's kingdom of heaven on earth, or were they trying to fulfill their own evil desires?
I find it interesting that we see Paul also in Romans says, the older will serve the younger.
So it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
He's even, and then now we know all of Judaism has always viewed Christianity and Rome as Esau and Edom.
Well, and presumably Paul saw Rome as Esau.
I mean, at the time, if Paul is a learned scholar, he probably looked at Rome as under the influence of Esau.
Right.
Caesar or whoever the time that's saying Caesar is the more likely candidate for the reincarnation of Esau than Jesus.
Well, Jesus went and took over the Caesars.
Malachi 1, I have loved you, said the Lord, yet ye say, wherein hast thou loved us?
Was not Esau Jacob's brother?
said the Lord, yet I love Jacob.
Sorry.
I don't know what I'm doing.
And I hated Esau and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Whereas Esau, Edom, said, We are impoverished, the people against whom the Lord hath indignated forever.
Indignation forever.
Did you hear that?
My deep voice?
Yeah.
Does it sound good?
If you like that, I mean, I guess.
So it's literally King James Malachi.
What?
Well, I said the verses are supposed to put the fear of God, the fear of sin into people.
So if you put the voice, the goal is to put the fear of God into people and for people to recognize that you can't sin and get away with it.
And whatever evil desires in our heart that we have, that we should sublimate it and turn it to good.
Well, God doesn't hate us because we sin.
He hates us because we're Esau.
No, I mean, that's, I mean, that's, I don't think anyone understands it like that.
Maimonides, anyone, is saying that's the behavior, and all people could be included In the eventual redemption, based on their behaviors.
The characteristic that Esau has this inborn characteristic to act like that.
And if he continues to act like that, he will be destroyed.
But God has a purpose for him because he's in the field and he's a warrior that he will use him for the task.
And then after the task is filled up, it's completed.
If he has no part in the perfected role, he will be destroyed.
But it's not Esau himself that is evil.
It's his natural characteristics that need to be changed.
Esau is a well, this is arguing the minutiae, but Esau is a born idol worshiper.
He represents the antithesis to the darkness, to the light.
You said the other day that on politically provoked, I saw that you didn't believe in free will.
But I mean, free will is one of the most fundamental principles of Judaism and saying, like, you as a Gentile, yes, you do have free will.
Esau has free will.
We all have archetype behavior.
Esau hates Jacob.
That doesn't sound like free will.
It sounds like you believe Esau is going to hate Jacob no matter what.
That doesn't sound like we have free will.
That's his natural conditioning, but people have free will to overcome our inclination.
So the inclination is to evilness and to sin, but the person has free will to overcome the inclination to evil and to sin.
And saying, even if the person doesn't overcome their inclination to evil and sin, God, so to say, will trick them in order to doing something useful for the righteous, not knowing that their labors are not going to go to their own benefit, but the benefit of the righteous.
But even the people with these bad inclinations have the ability to change their inclination.
Free will is given, bestowed upon all people.
Okay, I want to move on to where is it?
not there This is a modern-day Paul, Pastor Benny.
He comes from an ultra-Orthodox family in Israel and has been leading rabbis to faith in their Messiah.
Amazing story.
Amazing.
Ministry.
Rabbis to the Lord.
Not just rabbis, but ultra-Orthodox rabbis.
A revival is happening in Israel.
Why would you write a book called The Return of the Kosher Pig?
So you got a title.
Have you ever heard of this concept, return of the kosher pig, before this?
Before?
I mean, it sounds like Shabbatite Svi.
And there are writings in the Kabbalah, like at the end of the day, that the pig will be made kosher.
But it sounds like the teachings of the false Messiah, Shabbatite Svi, and his prophet Nusan from Gaza, your redemption through sin.
Well, it's not really what they're saying.
They're going to say, at the end of days, what you thought was impure and unclean was actually kosher.
And this represents Esau and Jesus.
It's not mainstream.
And he's going to go from being the accuser to the advocate.
It sounds Sabbatean, that it's not mainstream Kabbalah or Judaism.
It's more Sabbatean.
Okay.
So you were raised in Israel.
Or you know that when we talk about ages of, well, I'm talking even before Yeshua's time, even says that this prisoner, the word prisoner in Hebrew can mean forbidden.
So you can read the text saying the Lord is going to take something that is forbidden and he's going to make it kosher.
Do you ever foresee a massive growth of Messianic Judaism and more and more Jews acknowledging that Jesus could be play the role of Moshiach ben Joseph?
No, I would say that the basic training and understanding of Judaism, the Hebrew prophets, makes it so that Almost no Jew would seriously consider Jesus as Messiah, like Bart Ehrman said in his latest course, trying to explain why so few Jews accepted Jesus as Messiah,
why Paul and the later church was able to convert so many Gentiles, but had so little success with Jews, that just our understanding of the prophets and what we expect Messiah to be, that it's borderline, just ridiculous and inconceivable that Jesus would be the Messiah that we're looking for.
That it said like Jesus was crucified, Jesus died, Jesus failed.
That's not the Messiah as Jews understand.
And there might be opportunistic Jews that would pretend like that in order to have some sort of benefit.
But in general, any Jew that's been through classical training, there's close to no chance that they would look at Jesus as Messiah.
Okay, maybe not acknowledge Jesus as like the Christian Messiah, but almost as like turn him into their own Judeo-Messiah in a way that kind of did evil, but in a good way.
I have a clip to play that's that's exactly like that, actually.
But yes, Christianity was not created for Jews, it was clearly created for Gentiles, and Gentiles who were targeted by it.
And, you know, I saw Toby Rabbi Tovia Singer say that there's so many inconsistencies in Matthew where like no Jew would ever want to become a Christian.
No learned Jew at that time would become a Christian if they read Matthew.
It was almost like a deterrent to keep Jews away.
Well, that's why you mentioned Moshiach ben Yosef at the beginning, that you could see Jesus as Mashiach ben Yosef, because we understand that Mashiach ben Yosef is going to fail, going to be martyred, and that martyrdom is going to pave the path for the real Messiah to come.
So that perspective of a learned Jew that sees, yes, maybe Jesus was Moshiach ben Yosef.
He was a good-hearted Jew who was trying to do the right thing, and he died in Hebrew Kiddish Hashem, sanctifying God's name, and that laid the path for the real Messiah to come.
That is reasonable within even Orthodox Judaism or Kabbalistic Judaism.
But I said the concept of Moshiach ben Yosef is not well known or understood even among Orthodox Jews.
I believe it is.
I've seen a lot.
I've been able to find lots of material on Moshiach ben Joseph.
I hear him talk about it fairly often.
Maybe in your personal experience, you know, the rabbis that you learned under, you know, it wasn't a focus to them.
But I mean, it's in our text, but I'm saying, like, no, I mean, like, I would say Moshiach ben Yosef almost never comes up in like, you know, Jewish school.
It's only mentioned here and there.
The messianic Jews should like to talk about it, and they're still Jews.
But I'm saying Mashiach ben Yosef is like the, is, I mean, God forbid, like the comedy relief, you know, say he get he dies, he gets martyred, and that martyrdom lays the path.
Um, you know, like in Star Trek, he's one of the guys with the red shirts that gets killed early in the series, you know, in order that the hero goes on to win.
And so, any Jew, you know, saying, okay, maybe Jesus was Mashiach ben Yosef, but you know, what does that matter?
He gets martyred.
We're concerned with Mashiach ben David, who's going to win.
And it matters to Gentiles because so many in the Gentile world are worshiping this fictional archetype character that is like almost just like the rejected false Messiah of the Jews.
And I feel like they've been tricked into it.
Yeah, I don't think that's us that duped them.
However, it happened.
Where else did it come from?
Who else came up with the story?
Well, I mean, you could have said that it was, you know, Jews were the original Christians and the apostles, but the vast majority of Jews were always opposed to the cult of Jesus and just always thought the concept of Jesus as Messiah was ridiculous.
So maybe this concept of martyrdom, of self-sacrifice for the greater cause, is embodied, like I'll call the Jesus principle, accepting the suffering of others upon yourself.
And that's kind of the curse of Aesaul, that you could see in front of you that really you're not going to get the evil desires that the people think that they're going to get.
And what they're going to get is martyrdom.
So that Jesus is this right in front of people to say, well, if you're willing to sacrifice yourself for the greater good of other people, that's something venerable.
But if you think that you're going to win in the end of days and get to fulfill your sinful desires, that's never going to happen.
Well, I don't have sinful desires of the end of days, but that is how you've scapegoated your sins onto the Christians to turn the Gentiles into the villains.
That's how I see it playing out.
Let's play a little bit more.
Now he's going to get into Edom being destroyed by Moshiach.
So some of those sages understood this passage on the Psalm, on the Psalm, to explain to us that this thing that is going to be uncultured, like a serpent, something that is very unclean.
And he will heal Israel is going to be the Messiah who is resembling a pig.
And they explain, you know, funny, Hebrew is a funny language.
Every animal has a meaning.
Yeah, hold on.
For two thousand years, generosity and persecution is our realest...
Who says that?
The Jewish people.
Here we go.
And when Iram returns, he will uncover himself, unmask himself, and he will be the cleanest, purest.
But who says that, dead teeth?
The Jewish people.
So let me jump in because he's taking something for granted in people's knowledge, because we're in deep waters here.
He really is.
Right, I know.
I try to understand all that.
Jesus is our Savior.
Christianity has recognized him as God's Redeemer for 2,000 years.
The Jews, on the other hand, although this all began with the Jewish people, made a decision through the sages to reject Jesus as the Messiah.
So for 2,000 years, and the church has helped in this process because of the blaming Jews.
And we have a 2,000-year history of animosity and persecution, sadly in the name of Christ and Christianity.
But as a result of that, in the sage's decision to reject Jesus as the Messiah, he became a curseword in Judaism.
He became the uncultured thing that the Christians embraced, but representing to the Jewish community pain and suffering and persecution.
Well, Yitzhak is now using that plain words.
When Moses, when he was brought up, where was he brought up?
Okay, here we go.
When Moses, when he was brought up, where was he brought up?
In Egypt.
Correct.
What did he destroy?
Egypt.
Correct.
When you ask me, and now I can be honest with you, because not that I wasn't honest before, but when I read all the Jewish interpretation about Yeshua, we know exactly who he is, like I showed you in the prayer.
But there's one part I left out because I felt it might be too shocking for your audience.
Are you ready?
We know where he is.
Wait.
We know where he's at.
Where Yeshua is at today.
You ready?
In all the prayers, he's saying he's with the Christians.
He's with the Christians, and we call upon him to come back home to Zion.
It's interesting.
It's a shocking thing.
What does it say then?
In Yom Kippur.
Yom Kippur prayer.
That's the most important verse of Yom Kippur.
It's basically say, we read entire Isaiah 53, and I cry when I read it.
And then it says, leave, leave Christianity and come back to Zion.
It literally says that in the prayer.
What I'm trying to say, I'm trying to say to you today, my burden today is not just for the Jews, all those Jews who need...
We read in the scriptures about Isaac who had these two children.
In Isaiah chapter 63, the day of the great and terrible day of the Lord, it says that the Lord will come out from a place called Edom and he will crush Edom.
Now, I'm just a broadcaster here, okay?
In Jewish understanding, Edom is really talking about the Christianity.
Okay?
Christianity is called.
Christianity is Edom.
It's a rather lengthy explanation, but Edom's name was Esau.
Edom's name in the scripture is Esau.
Isav.
Esau.
Esau.
If you turn the letter Esau, flip them around, you get the name Yeshua.
There will be some alliance, maybe a Catholic church, I don't know, between the Christians.
When I say Christian, I'm not talking about the true believers.
Of course, I'm talking about either the Catholic Church and the Islamic world to against Zion.
That's why Edom will be destroyed.
And that's why we need to be very, very careful to make sure we aligned ourselves.
Jesus today is in a foreign land.
He's with the Christians.
Our Jewish people have to get through it.
All right.
Edom, he believes Jesus is going to return as Moshiach ben David and destroy Christianity and Western civilization.
Right?
Yeah, I mean, I think he's, I mean, God forbid, I don't know who this people are, but I think he's just kind of trying to tell Christians what they want to hear.
You know, like the fear of God.
You think they want to hear that they want to be destroyed?
That Jesus is going to return and be a double agent was working for the Jews all along?
Well, I mean, I mean, to some extent, that he's not.
You're saying the fear of God should be upon all people, the Gentiles and the Jews.
And, you know, God forbid, the lesson of Moshiach ben Yosef, and if Jesus is fulfilling that archetype, is martyrdom, the willingness to be self-sacrifice for God and to be a sheep for God for the greater purpose and saying that Edom and Esau as the vehicle of the church, that God forbid, it's a dangerous game to that, I mean, we're all playing that demonstration.
We're not even playing this game.
It's the nature of the material realm.
And even that these men, if they're trying to justify sinful behavior and saying like the Labavitch Rebbe, like our sages had moral, upstanding character that was beyond question.
There wasn't like a Me Too movement against our sages.
They had moral, upright behavior.
They weren't pigs that were going to be turned kosher.
They weren't doing sinful action that because of some greater good was going to be justified.
They had upright, upstanding character and avoided sin, you know, largely their whole lives.
Who is this coming from, Adam, with his garments stained crimson?
So this is what both Christians believe Jesus is going to return coming from the clouds with the sword and the stained garments.
And this is what you believe Moshiach ben David's going to do as well and destroy Edom?
Destroy the West?
Do you believe this is going to happen?
Well, I mean, God forbid, like, as most of these verses refer to martyrs in general and all the righteous martyrs.
And at the end of the day, that our Messiah is going to win, although it's unclear our Messiah is going to be a man of God.
Our Messiah is not going to be a great warrior, at least according to the mainstream understanding.
Moshiach ben David is, you know, David was a warrior to some extent, but he was a man of prayer and song.
And that, you know, Mashiach ben David, like the Labavatra Rebbe, is more likely to be recognized by being a prayer leader, by leading chanting, by having a beautiful song than being a warrior.
He's going to defeat the opposing enemies and armies through prayer.
Through prayer, this doesn't look like prayer to me.
Let me read a little bit of this.
I have trod in the winepress alone.
From the goyim, no one was with me.
I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath.
Their blood splattered my garments and I stained all my clothing.
It was for me the day of vengeance.
The year for me to redeem had come.
I trampled the goyim in my anger, in my wrath.
I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground.
Surely they are my people, children who will be true to me and And so he became their savior, Jesus.
Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit.
So he turned and became their enemy, and he himself fought against them.
Yes, karmatically, we'll have the evil will be destroyed, and it could be in a horrible, catastrophic way.
But it's not going to be Messiah who's going to be this warrior by the sword.
Asof is the one who lives by the sword.
King David, the Jews, live by the prayer book.
So, okay, like I'm a righteous Jew.
I live by the prayer book.
I'm not going to bear the sword.
But because God runs the world and rewards the righteous, that it will be ordained that the wicked will be destroyed, but they're not going to be destroyed by me bearing a sword.
Well, they're not saying the wicked will be destroyed.
They're saying that Edom and Esau and Amalek, the descendants, the nations will be destroyed.
That we're not judging if people are good people or not.
They're judging if you worship the God of Israel and believe that he chose the Jews.
That's what you're being judged on.
But isn't this, this is Isaiah 63.
Surely they are my people, children who will be true to me.
And so he became their savior.
So the savior like Jesus.
Yet the Jews rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit.
Jesus is supposed to be in the Trinity.
One of them, part of Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
So he turned and became their enemy.
Jesus became the enemy of the Jews, and he himself fought against them.
I see this as straight up coded.
This is where they pulled from to get Jesus, the Jesus narrative.
Do you not think so?
I mean, that's the messianic archetype.
So typically, you know, Jews, Jesus is a false Messiah that we believe in a true Messiah.
so the, according to a Jew, uh, you know, like a typical Orthodox Jew, the Lubavitcher Rebbe is the archetype for what Messiah is going to be like, not Jesus.
And so, Because there's two Messiahs.
Well, I'm saying that Labavitch Rebbe was the archetype of Mashiach ben David.
So you as a Gentile might more be fitting to look at Jesus as your Messianic.
And even your typical Gentile isn't going to look.
They're probably going to look towards a warrior, towards a man of the sword who's going to wage battles.
but saying that if you're a righteous Jew who studied the text, the quintessential example of what Messiah is going to look like is factually the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
Isn't it supposed to be a military leader?
I could argue that he is a military leader if he consults with all of Top of Mosad and his and the prime minister and stuff.
Or he did.
Yeah, he even worked for the army.
The Labavitch Rebbe worked for the U.S. Navy.
You know, Israel has a secret and Shimbet and Masad has secret, a secret chief rabbi.
Yeah, but I mean saying like a priestly class, that, okay, the Labavitch Rebbe, if he had to go to battle, might have been on the battlefield.
But it's like, no, his weapon was prayer.
And, you know, God forbid, the evil people are tricked by their own evil desires to go to war and wage on the battlefield.
Even like I said with Judas Maccabeus, like, God forbid, because he besmirches the sages and makes one of the sages, he's the one who's on the front line in the battlefield.
Like, had he not, you know, had he not chosen to say bad things and thought negatively about the sages, he could have been from the sages, but he chose to say bad things about the sages, and therefore now he's on the front line fighting the battle for the very sages that he chose to disrespect.
Are you talking about the Hanukkah Judas Maccabeus?
I'm talking about the one that I set up to be on your show.
Okay, all right.
The IDF rabbi that, you know, God forbid.
Yeah, I'm like, I wasn't bearing the gun to fight the enemies, but saying that he was tricked by his own evil desires and his own disrespect of the sages.
So saying that, no, I mean, we're a priestly class.
We're not warriors.
Are you accusing Judas of mocking the sages?
Well, I mean, he did it openly.
So that.
What's the punishment for that?
For one who mocks the sages.
Well, God forbid, he was sent to the front line.
And so that's why he's in the West Bank on the front line.
Was he sent there or didn't he make a Leah and decide to go join?
Well, I'm saying metaphorically, like I don't know his exact station in the PDF, but saying he's the IDF rabbi.
He's bearing a gun.
He's not like the Rebbe sitting in office talking to the leaders and political leaders.
He's, God forbid, he mocked the Rebbe.
And, you know, so there's punishment for mocking the Rebbe in the sense that he was sent to the front line.
Man, what's my punishment for mocking the Rebbe?
Well, I mean, if you mock me.
No share in the world to come, but blot out my memory.
Well, God will use your own evil inclination against you, that God will use you to fight our battles on behalf of us.
And so your punishment is doublefold, double-folded, that in your own mind, you think you're waging a war against the Rebbe.
But at the end of the days, it's going to be a double whammy, the fact that you wage war, but you really wage war on behalf of the Rebbe.
And then if you don't repent in the end, you will be destroyed.
And so it'll be a double whammy that not only you waged war on behalf of the Rebbe, that you didn't get to take part in the spoils of the war you waged.
So basically, the Jews are chosen, and anybody that tries to oppose them gets destroyed.
Well, it's saying that's the double whammy that the prophets lay out, that God will use your own evil desires against you, that you think in your own mind that you're waging war against us, but really you're waging war on behalf of us.
Christians do.
I agree.
You're describing Christians, not the way I approach it, though.
Well, he's saying any Esau or any enemy of the Jewish people that is saying that it's, I mean, it's part of what you would call a Syop, and it's reasonable for you to call it a Syop because you're anachronizing our books.
And if you're using the who benefits, and now at the end of the days, you're saying, like, oh, man, like the Jews are the ones.
They look like they're going to win.
Like, all this stuff, it looked like we did all this.
Are winning.
Are winning big time.
Yeah, I mean, but that's, you know, so to say, if you're a believer, you say, okay, you know, God forbid as a Jew, like I said, Shimon Bar Yakoi, like, you know, I thought, you know, I quoted that Animal House movie, but it's saying that we believed in our time of suffering when all we had was our faith, but held on to our faith.
And now, you know, maybe the end of days is approaching.
You say, oh, maybe we are going to win.
But, you know, God forbid that the prophets lay out the verse, at the end of days, all nations will turn against Israel, that Esau and Yeshmael will appear like they're going to go war against each other.
Like, you know, like the Arabs, I mean, the Muslims and the Christians, it will appear like they're going to wage war against each other.
But at the end of the day, they're going to make a pact.
Why are we going to war against each other?
Let's team up and wage war against Israel.
But miraculously, Israel will win.
So it's saying if you're a Jew, that's what a prophecy said.
So, you know, as of now, it looks like you're waging war on our behalf against maybe Ishmael or foreign enemies.
But, you know, the prophets said that probably at the end of days, you and the foreign enemies are going to say, why wage war against each other?
Let's team up against Israel.
And Israel will defeat you, not through military might, but through miracles, through the power of prayer.
Well, I meant to mention earlier, it's Moshiach ben Joseph's role to wage war against Edom and Amalek.
And here we have again, Isaiah 63.
Go back again.
Mashiach ben Yosef loses, he gets martyred.
Well, Jesus lost and got martyred.
By Armalus in Rome at that.
Yes, Jesus could fit the model archetype of Moshiach ben Yosef, not the archetype of Moshiach ben David.
Right.
Well, they think he's going to return.
They're going to have a fake second coming slash first coming.
And I think there's going to be some type of rectification and the rest will be destroyed, just like you just said, and just like Rabbi Shapira just said.
He said the Vatican, not the true believers will be saved, but the Vatican and Ishmael and Esau together are going to wage war against Israel.
They say it's Putin and Iran.
Well, so I said that the Rebbe fits the archetype of Moshiach ben David, that he was a man, a man of wisdom.
Well, I mean, okay, he died, but he had victory after victory his whole life for decades.
He had victory after victory, largely miraculously through the power of prayer and intellect, is where Jesus fits the model of Mashiach ben Yosef, who tries to actually wage war and ends up dying a martyr.
Here it says, you want to be like the Rebbe who had victory after victory, or do you want to die a martyr?
I like neither.
Talmud, Sukkah 52b says that talks about the four craftsmen.
One of them is Moshiach ben David, son of Joseph.
These are the horns which scattered Judah, whereas these come to restore them.
So Jesus led to the exile, correct?
And he's also chased them back out of the exile and pushed through the prophecy, the prophecy-believing Christian Zionists that wanted the Jews to return to their homeland and with the anti-Semitic history of Christianity, persecuting them and justifying the need, keeping them separate, having them suffer so they could atone and go back to the land.
This is the role of Jesus, Messiah ben Joseph, in the Talmud.
I mean, the straight verses and the Kabbalah, it was necessary, God forbid, for the Jews to be exiled and spread to the four corners of the earth in order to save the whole world.
And that is the ultimate fulfillment of the prophecies.
Of all of all the prophecies you mentioned, the most definite prediction is that the Jews would be scattered all over the world and then be ingathered.
And even as the logical Christian, if you're looking at that, say that those prophecies came true, that the Jews were scattered to the far ends of the world and now in the process of being ingathered.
Oh, in the process, you think that the end won't come until everybody goes back?
Or like a war will start and then Moshiach ben David will like lead people back?
There's very, I mean, what's going to happen at the end of the days is unclear.
The basic understanding of the prophecy is that there'll be a catastrophic event that will cause the Jews to be exiled and spread all over the earth.
And then in the end of days, the Jews will be ingathered and the temple will be rebuilt and the perfect society will be ushered in, whether all Jews will be brought back to Israel.
Some people say the half-Jews, like Duvid, will remain as emissaries of the Jewish people in the Gentile nations.
And, you know, there's different understandings.
But, you know, if you take the Duvid approach as a half-Jew, that I will remain in the Gentile nations and be an emissary of the Jews.
Right?
Well, I mean, God forbid the Erev Rav are the fake Jews.
Well, wouldn't Orthodox Chabad Jews call you that, probably?
No, I'm saying I follow the Rebbe.
I'm not claiming fake leadership.
I serve the Rebbe.
I do what the rabbis tell me.
I'm not giving a fake message.
And if the rabbis call me and tell me I'm wrong, I would probably take their rebuke.
Have they told you you're wrong?
Has anybody?
Well, a lot of people tell me I'm wrong.
Any rabbi wants to come on and replace me to debate you or give a clear message.
I'm just a Jew who's doing my best.
And generally, I'm not saying over my own things.
I'm saying over what I learnt, what I read in the holy books, and what I was taught by the rabbis.
I would be the heir of Rav if I was claiming some sort of my own authority and my own leadership or speaking falsely on behalf of God.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Why do you think nobody from Chabad has reached out to me to try to correct me or debate me or prove me wrong?
Well, because that's maybe, I mean, you'd have to ask them their understanding that they're saying me as a half-Jew will be the intermediary to speak to the Gentiles.
Are you an intermediary?
Do they send you to try to, are you working for somebody?
I'm not on a payroll, but you're saying, like, yeah, I worked and served a lot of rabbis, and a lot of what they had me do was speak to Gentiles for them.
What did they tell you to do?
Try to convert them to Noahides?
Well, they didn't give me a mission like that.
I mean, generally, if the I mean, I don't even think they put too much into it.
I mean, they believe in God.
They're not so, you know, like reading over every word that I say to make sure I said the right word.
If they're men of faith, they believe in God.
And hopefully they trust that I'll try my best and that God will put the right words in my mouth and that it'll have the right effect.
But I don't think they put faith in me.
They put faith in God.
What do you think about this?
Some more Paul from Romans.
Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
And in this way, all Israel will be saved.
The deliverer will come from Zion.
He will turn godliness away from Jacob.
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake.
But as far as election is concerned, they, the Jews, are loved on account of the patriarchs, where God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
So to say that the prophecies, you'll say that you as a Gentile, like from the Maimonides understanding, will recognize we don't recognize the New Testament as having authority.
So saying you, that you could say that what the Hebrew prophets, what Isaiah, what Moses said was true, and what it said in Romans and the New Testament doesn't have God behind it.
So, I mean, it might be.
I know, David, I know that you don't think this is authoritative, but nonetheless, this is a 2,000-year-old document written by a Jew named Saul.
The general consensus is it was written by Paul.
Well, you think that Paul's, I mean, you're, you would say the historical Jesus, if you're leaning towards there was no Jesus, but you think the historical Paul was an actual character.
Well, some people do make the try to make the case that he's also, there's not good evidence that he was historical, but there's definitely better evidence for him than Jesus.
At least we have these letters more than they had for Jesus.
You know what I was thinking the other day?
Like, if you want to make me believe in an ancient God-man coming to earth, like, you know, there was masters at sculpture back then, right?
Back around that time.
Like, if there was massive sculptures of Jesus, what he looked like all over the world, and huge, I mean, God can use his power with a lightning bolt to carve something huge in the sky, his exact, clear, concise laws, and that was found all over the planet.
That would be the type of evidence that, like, would be required to believe in all of this nonsense, in my opinion.
It was just a random thought I had, though.
But what about this?
That's, of course, that's why, I mean, the earlier Christians, even if you look at the carvings on the early church, how the early Christians saw it, that's why Jesus came as a Jew.
If Jesus came from another tribe, they would have made Jesus God on earth.
But because Jesus came as a Jew and Moses had already said that there can't be a God in human form and the punishment is death.
So if you're going to accept the Christology that Jesus desired to be, or God himself desired to be crucified on the cross in order to die for humanity's sins, that it necessitated him coming as a Jew.
Because if he came as a Gentile, you would have made him king and God on earth.
And only as coming as a Jew could he have been fulfilled the mission of dying on the cross.
I mean, that was the earlier church understanding.
Well, the Messiah had to be a Jew.
I'm saying you as a Gentile have a tendency maybe to worship idols, and you want some sort of God figure to come on earth and like the Romans to make statues or the Norse pagan gods and build big statues to some superhuman figure.
But Moses and the prophets said those superhuman figures don't exist.
We're all just flesh and blood.
Yeah, well, just because there's a big sculpture doesn't mean necessarily that he's a superhuman picture.
I mean, you'd think the most important man that ever lived, there could be a sculpture or many sculptures of him.
If I was God and I wanted a message in a person to last through the ages so people could believe in him and have salvation, I'd give a little bit better evidence.
And a sculpture of Jesus wouldn't be good proof for miracles that happened, but at least that he was historical.
Anyway, total side issue.
This part, as far as the gospel is concerned, so as far as the New Testament and the Jesus doctrine is concerned, the Jews are enemies for the Gentiles' sake.
But as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs.
Isn't that interesting again that the Jews are only the enemies for the gospel's sake?
It's almost like they're still good, but you're supposed to believe that they're the enemies because that's the role that they, the dynamic that they wanted to set up, the dialectical paradigm, the dualistic.
So it fits into this Esau model that Esau has this grudge against his brother Jacob, so that this Jesus archetype that, you know, God forbid the Jews hated Jesus.
And so this prophet, this, you know, God figure becomes raised up among the Gentiles.
And then the grudge of Esau could be born against the Jewish people because we're against their God, their prophet, in order that, but I mean, seeing from the Judaic perspective, it's said that it's not the New Testament that has the, that's important.
It's these prophecies of Esau and Jacob that are going to be the true prophecies that have been proven true through history.
Yeah, I think they've been proven true because they've been carrying them out, but that's where we disagree.
Also, this part, Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
So once enough Gentiles are Christians and Christianity achieves what it was set out and intended to do, the purpose it was supposed to fill, then the hardening will go away and they will come back, like it says in Revelation.
Even the one that pierced him will believe.
Like, do you not see that this is the whole script that's being written when they created part two with Christianity?
Yeah, but saying this script existed before Christianity saying the model of Esau and Jacob is just mapped out onto Jesus, the church, and the Jewish people.
But it's saying it's the model of Esau and Jacob that is accurate and saying for whatever reason, people believe in Jesus in the church that saying at the end of the day, when the true Messiah comes, that you'll see that it was the prophecies of Esau and Jacob that were true, not the prophecies of the New Testament.
Right.
Yeah.
Christianity is the fulfillment of the Torah prophecies and the Hebrew prophets.
I mean, every Christian will acknowledge that, basically.
That's not even disputable.
The church and the movement of Christianity, that the vehicle that God chose to bring the message to the whole world, that the original revelation to the Jewish people just in Israel, Egypt, the Middle East, that is eventually brought through the whole world comes to the whole world through this vehicle of the church, but the vehicle of the church is in fact the vehicle of Esau.
So you're basically concurring with everything that I've been saying.
How about this?
Well, because you're just saying what the rabbis are saying, you play the rabbis.
You're saying the mainstream rabbinic understanding of the unfolding of the biblical Prophecies.
You're just claiming that it's some sort of conspiracy as opposed to the hand of God.
I mean, you're saying the mainstream rabbinic interpretation.
That's why you find it so easy to find all these rabbis that say what you're saying.
You're just proposing that it's a man-made conspiracy.
Very succinct.
You're right.
Obedience of the nation shall be his.
That was the goal all along.
And Christians are too blind to see that this was fulfilled through Christianity.
All they had to do was come up with a little story that they rejected him to seem disinterested and say, you're going to burn in hell if you don't follow the Jewish Messiah.
And if you do, you get to live forever in eternal bliss.
How's that for a con?
If some people honestly follow Jesus and they're, you know, so to say, mistaken about following a false idol, they will be judged righteously based on their action.
The punishment for having believed in a false idol is, so to say, minor compared to their righteousness.
Like I said, Maimonides, you'll say that Jesus, because Jesus was known to the Gentiles when the true Messiah comes and redemption will come, that they'll have the ability to understand what happened.
And the people who had a true righteous heart towards God will be included in the redemption.
And the people that say, like, no, I wasn't following God.
I was following Esau.
And they will be destroyed.
Yeah, obedience to the nations shall be his.
We just read from Isaiah where it said that the nations will be trampled by the Moshiach.
It's just amazing to me that the Gentiles would be like, oh, well, you rejected the king that was supposed to conquer us, but now we're going to worship him.
And we're one-upping you.
Christ is king.
Like they say, Christ is king as a troll.
There's some Jews out there just laughing inside, knowing how gullible they are.
Look, Paul in Romans, make the Gentiles obedient.
I mean, God forbid, but it's saying that really you're belittling your own parents and your own ancestors, that you're just airing your grievances to me and the streaming public community.
Well, my ancestors, depending on how far back you want to go, my ancestors passed 2,000 years ago, didn't believe in any of this Judeo nonsense.
Well, you say that they sincerely believe in Jesus.
They go to church and they pray to Jesus and you think they don't really understand this.
And there's some sort of deeper meaning.
But I mean, saying that if your ancestors were righteous, they were just misled into falsely believing in Jesus, but they were sincerely trying to believe in God and be good people, even though they came on to worshiping a false prophet or false God.
I see this as making the Gentiles obedient, not to God, but to the Jews that created the God.
Well, are you kind of giving your excuse for why you left the church?
I'm saying that you said you were.
Oh, not.
I don't have to give anybody an excuse.
I'm trying to deprogram Christians from the Judeo-spell that they're under.
That's what I'm trying to do, Devin.
Well, are you having success?
I mean, you can't like, I mean, God forbid, like, like you're saying you're not the question.
Accepted in his own town.
Like, you can't even convince your own parents.
You can't even convince the own people that you grew up with.
You know, maybe a few people online, but did you convince former Christians?
Am I convincing you?
No, I mean, you're not convincing, man.
I agree.
You are.
You're conceding everything I'm saying, basically, and agreeing that I'm right.
You just think it's God doing it.
I think it's the much more likely explanation and plausible theory that it's self-fulfilling prophecy.
Yeah, but I didn't make these prophecies.
I mean, it's like my ancestors were Jews, and my ancestors, you know.
Right.
I don't blame you for creating Christianity.
I know.
I don't even blame all Jews.
Many Jews have been deceived and hardened and blinded to this deception as well.
Well, I was saying we've both historically suffered quite a bit at the hand, but saying that, honestly, I think what you're saying to your average believer would strengthen their belief, not diminish it.
Just the fact that, I mean, you're, like I said, like that's the way that God uses the person's evil intentions against them, That you're trying to stray people off the path, but at the same time, because you're playing rabbis and you're bringing these verses and you're explaining these concepts, that your average person would actually be strengthened in their faith, not diminished in their faith from the information that you bring forward.
That's why I'm willing to talk with you.
Just the fact that you played the Rebbe and the rabbis, you could give your take on it, but you know, the people will see the information.
And, you know, to me, what you say actually strengthens my faith and not diminishes it.
Well, I'm sure that may be the case with some Christians as well.
But I feel like this is an important thing to do to at least put information out there that counters the Judeo hypnosis that's going on and to give people a different way to look at things.
Yeah, I don't think you're a bad person.
It's something like from my track record with you, you seem like a pretty nice guy.
You helped, you know, the Judas with his internet.
You gave me a chance and put me in front of a bigger audience.
And even though I, you know, seriously disagree with your take on that, that in terms of your behavior, how you treat people, you know, you keep your word or honest that I will judge you on your actions.
You know, as a Jew, I'm going to judge you on your actions, not your beliefs.
So it doesn't bother me necessarily that this is what you believe, as long as your actions are righteous.
And my understanding that God also is largely going to judge you on whether you're a good person or not.
So said, like, like the example I gave earlier.
I'm not too concerned about a God that's going to judge me.
I'm not trying to impress a God.
I'm trying to just be a good person for the sake of being a good person.
But what about this note?
John 4:22.
This is almost like rubbing it in the Gentile faces, don't you think?
Ye worship ye know not what, but we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
You don't even know what you worship, and we're the ones that are going to get salvation.
That's how I see this.
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of the spirit behind the message.
I don't, I'm not even a believer in the book of John, but like I was saying, yeah, that's the nature that the prophets lay out is that God will use people's evil desires against themselves.
It's not just like, oh, you have evil desires, so you should be destroyed.
It's you have evil desires, therefore we're going to use your evil desires to trick you into working on behalf of the righteous because you think that you're going to be rewarded, but in reality, that you're doing the work on behalf.
You know what I see happening?
I see Jews dehumanizing Gentiles that were inherently evil, and then that justifies you to use deception on us and say, well, you're just exploiting the evil that was already there.
That's kind of how I see what's happening.
I completely reject that.
I was saying that everybody's made in the image of God.
Everybody will be judged on their deeds and action and righteousness.
And even a moloch, should a moloch repent, could be included in the redemption.
You might find Jews that belittle Gentiles or cheat Gentiles, but I've said many times in all of my debates: any Jew listening to this, don't think that you can't trick a Gentile and get away with it.
If you think that Judaism teaches that you could trick and cheat Gentiles because you're Jewish, you have to threaten your Jewish friends to not trick Gentiles.
I don't have to threaten.
I'm saying that as I say, any decent rabbi, from my understanding, has said this: that I mean, I have heard rabbis talk about tricking, but all of the sages have talked about honesty and charity and the concept of that Salome Kim, the form of God, that all people, like I said, the expression that no man's red is blooder than the other comes from the Talmud.
When it said, why did if the Jews are the chosen people, why are we all born for Adam?
And the Talmud said to teach us that no man's blood is redder than the other.
There's also stuff about Adam in the Talmud that the other nations didn't come from Adam and they come from the unclean side and stuff like that.
So, again, there's contradictory stuff.
What do you think of this one now?
We all come from the same source.
We all are human and deserve human rights and dignity and self-respect and honest treatment.
If you're talking about the origin of the souls, the Kabbalah will say that the soul comes from the spiritual husk.
But no, I mean, any straightforward reading, any decent rabbi is going to tell you, like, I'm a universal humanist.
The Bible is a book of universal humanism.
We all come from the same origin.
The Noahide laws is a movement of universal human rights and human values that all people come from the same source and deserve a bare minimum of dignified treatment.
Well, the first Noahide laws that you need to, Gentiles need to, and there's more than, there's like 40 or 30 other sub-laws, an infinite amount of interpretation, according to the rabbis is who will be in charge of it.
And the first commandment, though, is that you have to worship the one true God.
And when we're talking Noahide laws, you mean Noah.
So we're talking about the God of Israel.
So you have to worship the God of Israel.
Otherwise, you're not righteous.
You don't have a share in the world to come.
And you won't go to, you'll go to hell.
Yeah, but I mean, do not steal, do not kill.
Oh, I don't care about those.
We don't need the Noah story to know not to steal and kill.
Set up courts of justice that is obligatory to all human beings.
Any people from all nations have to give a minimum standard of human dignity and human rights to all people.
That's the basic message of the Noahide laws and of the Bible in general, the story.
Like, why does it start with Adam and teaching that all humanity descends from the same people, from the same man?
Well, Kabbalah teaches that Cain, the lion of Cain, is polluted with the serpent and that you guys are Seth.
But we're also, I was saying that all man descends from the same line.
That Jews and Gentiles all come from Noah and his children.
That if Cain is polluted by the serpent, we all are polluted by the serpent because all of us come from the descendants of Noah.
The Noahide law, Noah is the father of all of humanity, and those basic standards of human decency are obligatory upon all people.
So in modern terms, universal humanism, that nobody from any tribe could be cheated or treated improperly because they're from some sort of defective human tribe.
All people have the form of God and have this basic minimum standard of proper treatment that they deserve.
Here's Yevamot 61A.
How do you pronounce that?
Yevamot?
Yevamot.
I mean, it's the right marriage.
Talking about the graves of Gentiles.
And as it is written, and you, my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are men, Adam, from which is derived that you, the Jewish people, are called men, but Gentiles are not called men.
Sounds like we're not all equal.
You don't say we're all equal.
You say we're all made in the image of God.
But even that's not necessarily true, and it's contradicted all over.
Well, I mean, it's a dualistic system where, yes, you say you should treat Jews to a higher standard, but there's a minimum basic human rights.
And there's different verses that are contradictory.
So in different expressions, they use different levels of what it means to be a man.
And it's like these are homiletical verses.
So you could bring various verses that indicate, but I'm saying the clear message of universal human values is like no matter how many verses you could bring here or there that seem to say pejorative things about how you could treat Gentiles, as it said, that the overwhelming message is this bare minimum standard of universal humanism and that all people have basic human dignity.
You can't steal.
You can't cheat them.
You can't be dishonest with them, even though there's a special mission for the Jewish people.
And even though there's some verses that might say some controversial things or some statements of the Talmud.
This is one of my favorite verses.
I mention it all the time.
I want to get your take on it.
I am with you and will save you, declares the Lord.
Though I completely destroy all the boy among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you.
I will discipline you, but only in due measure.
I will not let you go entirely unpunished.
This looks really bad, Duvid, that all the nations where you're scattered to in exile that God will completely destroy.
I don't see how...
So, I mean, Jeremiah is not saying that God intended to destroy the nations or humanity.
God is saying that should the Jewish people be sinful, that we will be punished and that God will use the nations to punish us, but the nations that punish us will be punished on their own.
So God raises up a nation to destroy us, and it's not in the nation that God raised up to destroy us will also end up being destroyed.
But, you know, the individual— You're God destroying other nations.
I mean, it's saying like the former Soviet Union or the Roman Empire, the Spanish Empire, that there were empires and they rise and fall.
And the individuals that make up the empire, some of them are destroyed with the nation, and some of them move on to become part of the last nation, but a part of a new nation.
Sounds like nations are to be destroyed.
It says, like it says, like the purpose is, the purpose of the Jews is to destroy the descendants of Esau.
Well, I mean, look at your ancestry or my ancestry.
They say that my descendants, I mean, my ancestors were part of nations that rose up and were destroyed.
And that's the natural course of history that nations rise up and are destroyed.
Well, when it's your prophecy and it happens, I'd say that that looks like you had a little motive to carry it out.
And when you see who benefited, how about this?
You have to admit, David, this is unacceptable.
To eradicate Pesichem 5A, to eradicate the descendants of Esau, build the temple, and name the Moshiach.
It says, this is genocidal, David.
eradicate the descendants of Esau.
And then very clearly it says...
Oh, that's why it's skipping.
It says that Esau and Edom is Western civilization.
Do you want to eradicate?
Every individual of Western civilization.
It means the forces that are going to rise up and represent evilness.
Like I say, the Roman Empire, you know, saying not every individual in the Roman Empire was destroyed or evil, but the forces that controlled the Roman Empire.
And if you want to, God forbid, like a Catholic church or something, not every Catholic is evil, even if the forces in charge of the church are largely under the force of Esau.
So I mean saying that the descendants of Esau are small.
That it's not the, you know, it just, like the, I mean, really, you could look at that as some form of mercy, that it's only the poor leadership that's going to be destroyed, not all of the individuals.
It says, you know, they conflate this end times three things happening also with destroying Amalek.
And Amalek, it says, completely blot out the memory that they ever existed, not just a couple people here and there.
And I've seen many rabbis liken Esau to represent all Gentiles.
Yeah, I mean, there are a few rabbis to say, but I mean, no, I mean, the general understanding, like, Amalek is an extremely small, extreme tribe.
So saying, like, they say, okay, the terrorists, the people who have resorted to terrorism, God forbid, have to be destroyed.
And you might have some people in bad situations that, like, oh, the whole world's out together against us.
They're all terrorists.
But generally, like, the way to interpret this is saying that Esau and Amalek are small forces that push society to be evil.
And the masses are generally neutral and have.
Esau is a whole nation.
two nations will come from thy wombs.
It's talking about Rome, which represented the Gentile world at the time.
That leads the nation, not the whole nation.
The nations are the descendants of Noah.
Like Germany's a nation, and if Germany falls under the spell of Esau, that Esau has to be destroyed.
And the German people individually, if they were too much on the side of Esau, God forbid, they might be destroyed along with Esau, but only Esau itself has to be destroyed, not the whole nation.
Well, yeah, say no to what Yahweh says, Esau is supposed to work for the Jews.
Don't kill your donkey, like Rabbi Chief Sephardic Rabbi I'm brain farting of Israel, Yosef.
So Ovadia Yosef said that.
Why are we here to serve you?
That's why we're here.
So supremacist.
Here in the Talmud, it likens Esau, says you are the descendants.
Amalek is the descendants of Esau, the grandson Esau the wicked.
You're among his descendants and act just like him.
It seems to me like they're just all conflated with one another, representing Gentiles.
And then here it says, Jacob who humbled, so the Jews who humbled themselves before the Jew, the Christians and Gentiles, should later become the servant.
Let peoples serve you and nations bow down to you.
For Jacob to rule over Esau, Jacob left this to happen at a later time.
Well, I appreciate you bringing me on to tell the audience that I think you're wrong and that it's referring to the corrupt leadership.
And the people that are too embedded with the corrupt leadership might be destroyed with the corrupt leadership, but say it's the force of Esau and Amalek.
They're going to be destroyed.
And if you cast your lot together with Esau and Amalek, you could be destroyed along with them.
But the masses, the nation, are not Esau and Amalek.
They're the force of corrupt leadership leading the nation astray.
Although, you know, that, as I mentioned, that the method that's laid out that causes the nations to work on behalf of God, so to say, unwittingly, on behalf of the righteous.
And so, if you, under the force of Esau, say that I wanted to be righteous and my leadership was corrupt, and when the corrupt leadership was destroyed, I was happy that they were destroyed.
And I'm happy that my labor is going to the righteous, that you will be included and have the reward together with the righteous, as opposed if you cast your lot together with Esau or Amalek, you'll be destroyed along with Esau and Amalek.
What about it says, Amalek, and totally destroy everything that belongs to them.
Do not spare them.
Put to death men and women, children, infants, and cattle.
Sounds to me like not just the corrupt, evil leadership, but also their cattle and infants.
Right?
Yeah, but you're talking about, I mean, if you're talking historically in the time where the Jewish people were up against the tribe, that there was actually a tribe of Edom and Amalek within the midst of Israel, verse today, where it's not like the Western people aren't all Esau or Amalek.
Esau and Amalek are small, just like the Jewish people.
They're small in number.
And say if you accept the prophets, but rise to positions to sway the masses in the direction of evil.
I mean, every individual person has the ability to choose righteousness or choose evil and will be judged according to how they make that decision.
By if you want to be a Noahide or not.
What is that?
Even if, I mean, what do you do if you're under the influence of corrupt leadership?
Well, you do what I do.
I'm under corrupt Zog leadership.
I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone black mirror episode where it's just like a Judeo-cult has taken over the world.
That's what it feels like.
Well, I mean, I'd say that you have falsely identified.
I mean, maybe you've properly identified that there's negative forces swaying humanity to make bad decisions and just that you've attached labels.
And to some extent, a lot of religious Jews, Hasidim, Orthodox Jews agree with you that Zionism, the modern state of Israel is corrupted and could be part of saying that Israel itself, Netanyahu, the leaders of Israel, could be under the influence of Esau.
That I'm here to tell you, I'm a follower of the Labavitch Rebbe.
I'm not a follower of Netanyahu.
I'm not a follower of the state of Israel.
And, you know, I even said that I think Israel should give full citizenship to all Palestinians or various things.
Like, I'm here, I'm a follower of the Rebbe, not a follower of Zionism.
And if Israel, the state of Israel, tells me to go against God, I am not going to go along with the state of Israel.
You know, saying I'm going to go with the sages and saying that I have identified the Labavitch Rebbe.
I would say he is a model of what a true sage is.
By saying that the Gentiles come from three satanic spheres?
And speakers come from holy spheres.
And he endorses the Tanya, which says that our souls come from the impure, dark other side.
That's not very sagey to me.
It doesn't sound like a very nice sage.
Any person who has served the Rebbe over years and saying that you see that's not the mission of the Rebbe.
There's esoteric teachings.
Yes, the Rebbe said that.
Yes, there's the Tanya.
Yes, that's written in our books.
But saying, like, what is the overall effect of the people who dedicated their life to the mission of the Rebbe?
And I've seen that if a Gentile came, like, I mean, I'm not saying to test it, but if you called your local embassy of the Labavitch Rebbe, my guess is he would help you.
That, I mean, if you were in a time of need and you needed food or shelter, that the Rebbe would not cast you away because you're a Gentile.
You know, saying an embassy of the Rebbe would help you.
Well, just because they would help me doesn't mean that they deserve to be some type of holy figure, like a sage, when they've said such supremacist things and endorsed such a supremacist book.
You could interpret it in that way.
I mean, it's esoteric teachings about the nature of the soul.
I'm saying, judge people on their action.
And you see that the action of the Rebbe and saying that the Rebbe is founder of National Education Day.
The Rebbe was, you know, you've shown that.
Yeah, educating Noahides, indoctrinating Noahides.
Educating people about the importance of universal humanism and truth.
Like worshiping the God of Israel.
That's the most important part.
That's the first interpretation that you're putting in there, but I think that's the first one.
It's the first law.
That's your interpretation.
No, it's factually the first law.
And that's not my interpretation.
Worship the one true God, the monotheism of the rabbis.
That's why it's called the Noahide laws, because it's the God of Israel that showed the rainbow after Noah.
Yeah, I mean, you're taking a pejorative take on that, but like, obviously, the majority of people in the president or the people in the U.S. took a positive view towards the Rebbe.
And, you know, despite a few things in the text that sound pejorative and negative, that the overall mission of the Rebbe has been vastly positive for all humanity.
Duvid, they don't just sound bad.
These are bad.
Is this an accurate translation on the William Davidson Safaria here?
The souls of the people emanate from the other unclean Kelly pot, which contain no good whatsoever.
Yeah, I mean, that's somewhat direct translation of what the words.
These are deep esoteric teachings that they're complicated meanings.
I mean, you want to jump.
But they're complicated, but I know what they mean.
I know what the Kelly pot means.
You know what they mean?
I'm not a rabbi.
I'm a Gentile who studied things.
Well, I say, if you read the text, it's saying that yes, it is saying that the ultimate soul of the Jewish people comes from a higher source.
And it's not saying that the source, how do you define good?
And you're saying that it's temporal, that whatever it is driving the Jewish people is eternal and embodied in the true essence of God that exists, that's not dependent on the material realm, as opposed to, so to say, the Gentiles that are made up of the same things that the material realm in general is made up.
And not that you're made up of something worse than the material realm in general.
It's just saying that there's levels of spirituality.
And yes, according to the system of the Torah and the Kabbalist, the ultimate source of the Jewish people comes from a higher source that is higher.
The sparks of light, right?
Well, it's saying even higher than the material realm that you know.
That's where the light emanated from.
It's not saying that Gentiles are intrinsically negative or bad.
It's saying that Gentiles are akin to the material realm and the lower emanations of creation.
You think we're lower emanations of creation and you don't see how that's an issue?
And then meanwhile, white people are lectured every day by mainstream powerful Jewish people that were supremacists?
Well, because we're talking about the origin and source of the soul, the spiritual soul.
You're saying we're all the same flesh and blood.
Like I said, the Talmud says no man's blood is redder than the other.
And saying, so what survives death?
What's the essence of our soul that deeply drives us?
And saying that there's something unique about a Jew that comes from a higher source than, you know, I mean, Gentiles still have an element of the form of God or the, you know, that non-Jewish humans are the second highest form in all of the world.
Like they're still humans, the highest life form.
It's saying that the source, and there's no physical difference between a Jew and a non-Jew.
It's a difference within the soul.
And just saying that the Jew has some part of, you know, I guess Netanyahuk Elke Mimal Mamish, which is literally translated as like a spark of the highest element of God, literally.
So you as a Gentile have some sort of divine spark in you, but it's not the divine spark of the highest part of God that a Jew has.
So yes, that is in our text.
That is how Jews, you know, the majority of the Kabbalists understand that there is a differentiation of the soul between a Jew and a Gentile.
But for you to interpret it like, you know, Gentiles are negative or bad, that's not an accurate understanding of what it's saying.
Look at this.
Co-Live, which is Chabad's website.
Is the Tanya really racist?
This is 2008.
And it says, the souls of the nations of the world derive from the impure Kelly pot, which contain no good whatsoever.
Kellypot or Hus is the Kabbalistic concept, meaning the negative aspects of creation.
That's exactly what you just said.
Although many Lubavitch or Hasidim are uncomfortable with this statement, there's no counter text.
The view presented is that non-Jews are a different and lesser type of human than being Jews.
I mean, there's no other way to spin it.
That's what it is.
Well, I mean, it's talking about the soul, not the body.
I mean, so what?
You think your souls are better?
That's no difference.
Well, I don't say that the souls are better.
They're saying that we're saying, in essence, the soul of a Jew and Gentile is the same, except a Jew also has a higher part of the soul that comes from a higher part within the heavens.
So they're saying that husk that is within Gentiles is also within Jews.
It's just saying that special added part that is within a Jew, but it's saying that that part, the husk that is in Gentiles, is also within Jews.
It's part of the material of creation.
you're right.
They, I have read that, that they say that, you know, everybody can have the, the, uh, serpent and the evil inclination and has, I'm not sure if they have Kelly pot, but this is, The answer is, when the world was created, Adam and Eve were not Jewish.
There's no Judaism yet.
That was 2,450 years before the Torah was given to the Jews.
Sorry, wrong clip.
This one.
While some Christians in the Middle Ages portrayed Jews as supernatural creatures, as demons, devils, or the Antichrist, some Jews, on the other hand, imagine themselves as possessing a special degree of holiness, putting them on a higher plane than all other human beings.
In the 12th century, a Jewish teacher, rabbi, philosopher Judah Halevi wrote a book called The Khuzari and advanced the idea that Adam, the original Adam, had a special spiritual spark that was eventually conveyed to Abraham and then eventually conveyed to Jewish people.
And Jews have that additional level of spiritual capacity.
We have a different kind of soul.
Then, in the 17th century, in Poland, there developed a belief that there was a plant soul, an animal soul, a human soul, and a Jewish soul.
And that shows up today coming out of that milieu among the Chabad Chasirim.
All people are God's children, but God chose one to lead in morality, but again, not holier than thou, but unique in what our responsibilities are.
And that's our souls have a special, unique relationship with God that requires us to be those servants here in this world.
Our souls have a special, unique relationship with God.
Imagine you're a non-Jew, David, and you hear something like that.
What does that sound like to you?
Arrogance?
That they're entitled, self-chosen?
Well, you could interpret it as you want.
I just say that that husk part is saying that Jews have the same element of the Gentile soul, the same husk that makes up the Gentile soul.
The Jews just have an added component that comes from a higher part that, according to the sages, Gentiles don't have.
But this element that you were saying is evil and has no good at all to it.
Jews also have that component of the generic human soul.
And just to throw in real quick, Claire Caw just mentioned that she reached out to Joseph Atwell of Caesar's Messiah to see if he'll come on your show.
Oh cool.
As Isaac Luria said, Israel possesses three levels of souls from holiness.
The Gentiles, however, possess only the level of nephesh from the feminine side of the shells, for the souls of the nations which come from the kelly pot are called evil and not good, since they are created without knowledge.
Animal soul of a man is the good and evil inclination.
Yeah, I mean, but Jews also have this animal soul.
So, I mean, that's part, if you as a Gentile, according to the Judaic understanding, want to serve the highest purpose, you have to convert to Judaism and become a Jew.
You could be a good person.
You could have your lot together with the righteous by doing righteous deeds.
But if you want to do the ultimate service that the creator of everything desires, you could only do that as a Jew.
And so that's what the books say.
That's our religion.
That's how we understand the religion.
If you want to put it in a supremacist, a pejorative term, they're saying all of everything I said about universal humanism, basic human rights, that does not derive from what you're saying.
There's nothing from that a Jew should drive that thinks that we could trick or cheat Gentiles or steal or do bad things to Gentiles, just saying that we have an added special purpose that Gentiles don't.
And those negative things said about Gentiles also refer to aspects of the human nature of Jews.
I feel like you could see it from the chart.
Like right there in the chart, the Jewish soul, it's not like Jews, the human soul that all Gentiles have, Jews also have.
They just have an additional Jewish soul in addition to.
So all those statements, like the Husk and of the Gentile soul that's, you know, that there's no good at all in, that's also part of the Jewish soul without, you know, just we have this additional soul that comes from the highest part of God.
And it's saying that it has nothing to do with the body.
You're saying that when we die, our flesh will return to the ground.
And you as a Gentile, you have a soul that will survive death also.
So it's saying not that Jews and Gentiles both have souls that will survive death.
I'm reading from Messianic idea, the messianic idea in Judaism by Shlolem, and it says there's no admixture of evil in it, no shells.
That's the tree of life, Garden of Eden.
The world contains differentiated spheres, the holy and the profane, and pure and the impure, the permitted and the forbidden.
Obstructions to the stream of life, shells no longer have any validity.
All right.
I want to argue with you on the shells point, but nothing's coming to mind right now.
I don't think you're going to find it.
And I'm saying that that's the rabbinic.
I mean, you could put it in pejorative, but it was saying that Jews believe that you as a Gentile have a soul and that will survive death.
And that basic element of the Gentile soul is also within a Jew.
It's just that we have an additional part of our soul that Gentiles don't have.
Well, I would be that doesn't sound supremacist when it leaves your lips to say you have a better soul or a special soul or a different soul.
Well, because it's not me.
It's saying it's a part of God.
So I mean, essence is not me.
It's God.
And so it's not.
I haven't heard God say that.
I just hear Jews claiming that God said that.
I mean, it's complicated to understand what, you know, saying, who am I?
I'm not my body.
I'm my soul.
That my body is made up of the elements of the earth, dust, and ashes.
And when I die, my body will return to the ground, and the essence of what I am will survive.
And you, as a Gentile, that is also true that your body, any Gentile will return to the ground, but their essence, their soul, will live on.
This special spark of what it means to be a Jew is in addition.
And some sages say it's not essentially me.
It's actually an element of God that is within me that I could use, but it's not really me.
And I hope to do a review of the literature to understand these concepts because the reality, they're quite esoteric, mystical, and complicated.
All right, well, here you go.
I think I just finally found...
There's nothing within that that implies that therefore you could cheat or wrong Gentiles.
I knew one of these tabs would have it.
We have all Gentiles are referred to as profane and Kellypot, whereas Israel alone is called sacred.
All the other nations are profane.
I mean, there's a clear us and them angle when it comes to the divine light, sparks of light, and the shattered vessels being the darkness and the Gentiles.
From the pure Kabbalistic level, that's likely to mean that after the destruction of the world, that, you know, so say there's 6,000 years, and then there's the 7,000th year of Sabbath of the Messianic era, and then the world will be destroyed.
And so saying, whatever it is within the Gentile soul is part of this 7,000 years in the material realm, but what is within the Jew will survive and live past the destruction of the worlds.
I mean, they're rather esoteric, complicated concepts, and it's talking about, you know, the highest level of spirituality that will even survive the destruction of the world.
All right, we're going to have to wrap it up here in a second.
Let's finish this out.
Oops.
All people are God's children here in this world to lead the immorality.
They spend an awful lot of time explaining how that doesn't mean Jewish superiority.
Certainly not anymore.
But it does.
It is a tradition that comes out of oppression, and that's thoroughly offensive to contemporary sensibility.
You don't think, do you disagree?
Is this not offensive to contemporary sensibility?
It's speculation about what's going to happen after we die, what's going to happen at the end of the day.
You have different souls now, not when we die.
But it doesn't practically.
I'm saying in practical Jewish law, there is no, therefore, you could mistreat Gentiles.
Like any rabbi of self-worth is going to tell you straight up, you can't trick, you can't cheat Gentiles.
And whether when we die, what's going to happen to us, the ultimate destination of our souls after death or after the purpose of the world has been fulfilled is largely speculation.
So you have this spiritual, mystical stuff in our text that speculates what happens to the soul after death and what happens after the whole world, in totality, the mission of the world, has become fulfilled.
But in terms of practical dealings of what you're allowed to do in your dealings with Jews and Gentiles, that you can't derive, therefore you're allowed to trick or cheat Gentiles, God forbid.
The whole Jewish religion is predicated upon the tricking of Isaac to steal the birthright, the chosenness from Esau, the Gentiles.
There's laws in the Talmud about charging interest to Gentiles, but not to your fellow Jew.
There's all types of double laws going on for Jews and Gentiles, double standards.
I've also seen stuff in the Talmud where it says like you can, if you're being questioned by a Christian, you can pretend to be an idol worshipper or something like that in a way to trick them.
But if you're fighting for your life in that situation, I wouldn't even think that was immoral.
It's a dualistic system.
What you're saying is true, but you can't trick and cheat Gentiles.
You just have a higher standard that, so to say, the in-group and fellow Jews, you should hold to a higher standard.
But it doesn't mean that it's like open game and you can just trick Gentiles.
The texts clearly lay out universal human principles, like you can't steal, you can't kill, you have to set up courts of justice, and that applies to all people.
And then there's special laws above and beyond that.
Does it not say that you can claim ignorance when Gentiles ask you about your beliefs?
You could give a whole bunch of cases where there's going to be distinctions of what's the standard that is required for all humans, and then what's the higher standard that's required between Jew and a fellow Jew?
That's the way the text laid out.
That's the understanding of the Jewish religion.
But it doesn't mean that there's not a basic universal human standard, and it doesn't mean you could just trick Gentiles.
It means that there's a higher standard that you should treat your fellow Jew to as opposed to the basic universal standard that all humans deserve.
Okay, gotcha.
All right, let's wrap it up here in a minute.
I want to finish off with just one more clip.
This is from an Orthodox Jew, Jewish rabbi talking with Messianic Jew, Dr. Michael Brown.
And we're going back to Christianity now.
Look at how he describes Christianity as kind of evil, but almost necessary and fulfilling the Jewish prophecies.
And I was reading this passage in Maimonides, and he speaks about how at the end times, these Christians will, because they've been exposed to the Bible, because they know the Bible, they know the God of Israel, they know all the stories, they know all the content of the Bible, that will lay the groundwork for them to be with us at the end times.
It's basically what he says.
And really, that's what the redemption of the world is all about.
It's everyone serving the God of Israel together.
And so I was reading this and I said, okay, wait a second.
I've got.
Is that what redemption is about?
Everybody's serving the God of Israel?
It is, just like it said in Isaiah.
So Christianity did that.
Right?
Yeah, I mean, I think we're agreeing on that.
Jesus got the whole much of the world to worship the God of Israel.
Yeah, I mean, generally, we're in agreement about the basic understanding of biblical prophecy.
Okay.
I've got about 800 years, 900 years on Maimonides.
Let's fast forward.
Where am I right now?
I'm in the land of Israel.
I'm one of millions of Jews who have been in gathered the prophecies of Deuteronomy chapter 30 that the people of Israel, even if we're scattered to the ends of the heavens, will come back to our land and take possession of it and become more numerous and more prosperous than our ancestors.
And those words are written in the future tense in the Bible, but today they are fact.
They have happened.
And here I am in the long, as in the beginnings of that.
Let me bring it back to what Maimonides says.
I have no problem believing that God, exactly as Maimonides put it, this movement called Christianity, spreading the God of Israel and the knowledge of the Bible and the values in the Bible and that whole faith to the world needed to happen.
Orthodox Jewish rabbi, Jesus needed to happen.
I just want all the anti-Semitic Christians to hear that.
Jesus needed to happen, says the Jew.
Do you agree with him that this is the way that God's plan, Jesus is part of God's plan?
Of course you would.
No, I mean, I think that it was from our sin, that like, you know, say that the only reason it worked out this way is because we sinned and we were punished, but within the punishment is our opportunity to repent and the ultimate redemption is still available.
So, I mean, like from the philosophical that God obviously knew from the beginning, you know, if God is all-knowing and all-powerful, what was going to happen, but it was only because God gave us free will and the ability to sin and we use that free will to sin that it worked out this way.
When do you plan on making a league?
Well, I'm a half-Jew.
I think my mission is to the Gentiles here in You're an apostle to the Gentiles, like Paul?
I'm not an apostle.
I'm just like a person trying my best to be righteous.
Okay.
All right, here, a little bit more.
Do you have any special ability than a person who went to good schools, took the rep?
Just a special soul with a special unique relationship to Yahweh.
What, no different than any other Jew.
But not any other Gentile.
Well, I mean, I don't think that the Gentiles have such a degraded status.
You're a nation of priests and we're not.
Yeah.
You're still a human being.
You're still of the form of God.
You're just not a priest.
Okay.
And in order for it to happen, as you said, paraphrasing Maimonides, just to understand it, not necessarily agreeing with him, but to understand it, that God was, Maimonides says that God was using Jesus and he was using this thing called Christianity to spread the knowledge of him to the world.
So he did that.
I don't even have a problem believing.
I don't even have a problem accepting the fact that God empowered Jesus and his followers to perform miracles.
It doesn't bother me in the slightest.
And I'm not the first rabbi to say it.
There's rabbis from centuries ago who said the same thing.
If that was God's plan, meaning building off of Maimonides, if God's plan was for this Christianity to be successful in spreading to the nations of the world, then why wouldn't he empower them to do that as well?
So just to jump in, the answer would be that God would be empowering falsehood because these people are preaching that because these people are preaching these very things about Jesus, which are then being backed by miracles.
So the people are believing that God is backing what these people are saying about Jesus, that he's the way, the truth, and the life, that no one comes to the Father but by him that he died, rose from the dead, ascended to heaven, is at the right hand of God.
And so this is God's vindication.
So if God is backing that message through miracles, then he'd be backing something that's doing a lot of good but is fundamentally filled with falsehood.
If you think about the context in which Christianity began, it's entirely possible.
And here I'm just going out on a theological limb.
Sure.
It's entirely possible.
I'm playing God for a second.
I need all these people in the world, all these heathens and pagans, to know me.
And this is the only way it's going to work.
Because they need some incentive.
Heaven.
And this concept of personal salvation, which is so central to Christianity.
A fake promise.
Virtually no currency whatsoever.
And then he goes on to say that they needed a demagogue that's similar to their pagan beliefs, dying and rising, human form type of thing.
And that's why it had to be done that way, which is considered idol worship to the Jews.
So the whole thing fills.
What do you think of that?
And then we'll close it out, Divid.
Any final thoughts too on the whatever you want to say?
Yeah, I'd stress more individual free choice.
Like there is providence.
God runs the world.
And how God lets people know what we should do, our mission in life, is largely beyond our understanding.
I don't judge Adam negatively based on his beliefs.
I think Jews in general judge people on their actions.
And if people deal with their fellow humans righteously, you will be included in the righteous.
And so Adam's asking tough questions.
He's to his understanding, trying to call it hypocrisy.
I don't mind that.
I think that's actually a good thing, not a bad thing.
And people have individual free will and choice.
And I will judge Adam and all people based on their action.
And there is a God in saying God will judge people possibly on our hearts and on our beliefs.
But so I'm happy to continue with these conversations.
And it doesn't bother me that you're asking these tough questions or reading our text.
And I think that's a good thing, not a bad thing, to say that everyone has individual free will and should do our best to be on the side of righteousness, not wickedness.
I find it a little disturbing that you're unable to condemn any of these things.
And not just you, but just Jews in general and everybody in general.
It bothers me that more people aren't willing to condemn this and recognize Christianity for what it is, which is very clearly part of deception to kind of enslave and theologically conquer the mind of the non-Jewish world.
You're still in the Christian mind.
Like I was saying, I'm not condemning people for their beliefs.
I'll condemn action and saying if Jews think they could trick Gentiles, I'll condemn that, you know, like Jeffrey Epstein, bad Jewish behavior.
I'll condemn that.
I'm not condemning Adam for his beliefs.
I'm not condemning Jews for our beliefs.
I think, you know, like these are what our sages say.
Largely, I believe it and think people should be condemned for actions, not beliefs.
Are actions not predicated upon beliefs?
Well, they are.
I mean, beliefs are important and we should discuss our beliefs, and that's why I don't mind.
They affect people's actions and behaviors.
Well, that's why these conversations are important.
But at the end of the day, you can't, as a person, we can't judge people based on beliefs.
We can only judge people based on actions.
And if people have weird beliefs that don't make sense but are good people, we should largely judge them positively.
And people appear to have positive beliefs, but bad actions, we should largely judge them negatively.
Okay, last verse, and then we'll close it out.
One of my favorites: Isaiah 60:12.
For the nation and the glory and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish.
Ye, those glories shall be utterly wasted.
Amen.
Amen.
All right.
Duvid, I appreciate you coming on and finishing this up with me.
To full two hours.
I told him an hour and a half to two hours, and he's gone almost two hours and 15 minutes.
Where can they find you to see more of your insights, Duvid?
Duvid, I have a Discord.
I appear on Church of Entropy weekly and Charles Moskowitz weekly.
I hope to start putting out some more videos and ask the rabbis maybe dealing.
I did one already almost a year ago on reincarnation about the nature of the soul in some of these texts and even a more controversial one about biblical and Talmudic slavery.
If you want to join my Discord or reach out, hopefully I'll be able to.
You have a Talmudic slavery Discord?
Well, I have my own Discord.
It's connected on my Twitter.
I was going to do an Ask the Rabbi about Biblical and Talmudic slavery.
I mean, the Talmud, in the time of the writing, slavery was a common thing.
The Talmud has a lot about slavery.
So I was going to give a history and understanding about controversial subjects.
But generally, I'm willing to talk to anybody who reaches out and invites me onto their platform.
Usually I say yes, or if you want to contact me or message, if it's in good faith, I'm happy.
I don't mind people being skeptical and asking tough questions.
That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
Well, I'm glad you feel that way.
I wish more of your fellow tribesmen felt the same.
Like, maybe you can cover this one in one of your Talmudic slavery Discord shows from the Talmud Aruvin 43b.
Once the Messiah comes, all the nations will be subservient to the Jewish people.
And the word there is slave.
Paul also calls himself a servant to Christ.
So I guess we're all just.
I'm a slave to God also.
I'm saying King David referred to himself as I'm a slave to God.
And I wish I was a slave to God.
Do you like being a slave?
I would voluntarily offer my slaveship up to God.
That's the language of the scripture.
Okay.
And nothing feels weird about that.
A God that wants to be worshipped and that will punish you with eternal suffering if you don't.
These conversations are endless when I'm saying from a theological basis to say that, yes, that I would voluntarily give up my freedom to serve God.
And I think that that's, you know, I could argue that logically or based on scripture, but that's the language of our prayers and the language that King David and a lot of our sages used is to call ourselves slaves to God.
Well, I think you should break the chains of Yahweh.
And I think Gentiles, the non-Jewish Esau world, should not be a slave to the God of Israel.
That's my advice to close it out with.
Duvid, again, thanks for coming on, everybody.
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I will see you guys all again very soon.
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