Batya Ungar-Sargon argues Trump’s economic policies—tariffs, border closures, and deregulation—align with a "labor left" focus on worker dignity over free-market elites, who control 60% of GDP. She criticizes Democrats for exploiting cheap illegal labor while dismissing claims that undocumented workers fill irreplaceable roles, noting no industry exceeds 25% undocumented employment. Trump’s negotiation tactics, like 0% corporate taxes for reshoring jobs and drug pricing deals, earn her praise despite unease over government intervention. Rejecting GOP entitlement reform, she supports higher taxes on the top 10% to fund healthcare but insists on age-based cost separation, calling Obamacare’s subsidies unfair. A "MAGA lefty," she opposes progressive stances on religion and family, accusing Hollywood of promoting divorce as a tool to destabilize working-class values while defending Trump’s cultural shifts and advocating for successors like Rubio or Gabbard over extremists. [Automatically generated summary]
I got to ask you, where do you think Elon Musk is going to go?
I mean, he could go to China, right?
He makes a lot of money in China.
He loves to go to the world.
He goes to Lufthansa, right?
He can't go anywhere else.
He can go anywhere he wants.
He's not going to go anywhere.
He's an island off the coast of America.
But I'm saying, like, the thing that makes America great is not the fact that Elon Musk doesn't have to pay higher taxes, and he knows that.
I'm Andrew Klavan, and this is this week's interview with Batya Unger-Sargon.
You may have seen Batya on Friendly Fire just a little while ago, and I wanted to talk to her more about the things we were talking about.
She's the author of three books.
One of them, Bad News, How Woke Media is Undermining Democracy.
That's the one I read, and I thought it was really, really interesting and well written.
She is a NewsNation anchor and political commentator and host of the weekend show, Bacha.
Bacha, it's good to see you again.
Thank you so much for having me.
What a privilege and a pleasure to be here.
It is always a pleasure to see you.
Where is Bacha?
Where do people find Bacha?
Is that on NewsNation too?
It's on NewsNation, yes.
It was airing at 4 p.m. on Saturday, and then again at 11 p.m. so that I could watch it because I'm Shomer Chavez.
We tape it on Friday.
But I just got moved to a much better time slot.
We moved in the new year.
We'll move to 7 p.m.
And then it will air again Sunday morning at 11.
Great time slots.
So yeah, we're having a great time.
Oh, that's great.
I'm really glad.
You know, I was listening to this friendly fire thing.
And of course, I just ignore Knowles and Shapiro.
They have nothing to say.
But I thought you were bringing a very, very different perspective to the Trump administration.
And you started out this way.
I remember talking to you about, I think it was about second class.
Is that the one we were talking about?
So you, you made it, would you call yourself a liberal?
What would you call yourself?
Are you a conservative?
Are you a liberal?
What are you?
It's so funny.
I really think Trump has sort of made right versus left kind of moot at this point because so much of his economic agenda is really left.
I'm sorry.
And so I love it because I come from the labor left.
That's what left means to me.
It means you side with the working class.
But also left used to have a much healthier respect for religion.
You know, the FDR coalition was very respectful of religious people.
He cobbled together that, what Trump did, the same sort of coalition where you had like white farmers in the South, but also black factory workers, also union workers, you know, Jews and so forth.
And I really see Trump as being an inheritor of that FDR agenda on the foreign policy, on the domestic policy, on the immigration front.
But to me, all of that is like coded left.
So I don't really know what to call myself because obviously what the left is today is like hates religion, very anti-Jewish, hates kids, like believes in gender reassignment, surgery, and all this stuff, like a lot of things that are obviously an abomination to humanity, to God, and to America.
Like they really seem to have turned their backs on what this country stands for.
There's like an absence of pride and love for what this country is.
And that is really, I think, my most like deeply held belief is like this country is the best country on earth and I'm going to, I will do whatever it takes to make sure that it stays that way.
And I, so you can't really code that as left today, but I don't see any of my views as having changed.
But I am very, I really love this president, like best president of my lifetime, without a doubt.
Never believed I would see the things he's doing.
So I don't know.
I don't know where I am.
I don't know who I am.
I call myself a MAGA lefty, but I don't want to give the wrong impression.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, I wouldn't say I share very much by way of ideology with like Zorhan Mamdani, but he is recognized as left, even though I feel that I am the true inheritor of the left.
Well, that is really interesting.
See, I mean, I feel, I listened to John F. Kennedy speeches, and he, you know, he cut taxes, he fought communists.
What else could I ask for?
It's like, I don't know what, you know, I don't know what happened to the left.
It was not me.
I did not change my position.
But go back to this thing about economic leftism.
Aren't friendly fire?
Ben, we were saying wins and losses in the Trump administration.
And Ben doesn't like the tariffs.
And I get the Wall Street Journal and I read the Wall Street Journal and I enjoy it.
But when he brought on those tariffs, it was like every day the sky was on fire.
It was like we were under a missile attack.
I kept thinking like, really?
You know, is this so bad?
And I thought like, you know, with Trump, you can't just say he's putting tariffs on things.
He's using tariffs as a club.
So it doesn't bother me.
But when you say he's left economically, what exactly does that mean?
He truly believes that there is a value that's higher than freedom when it comes to markets.
Okay.
And that value is the dignity of labor.
Okay.
The dignity of the worker.
That if you get so enamored of free markets that your working class is committing suicide and dying of fentanyl overdoses and alcoholism and committing deaths of despair because they don't see themselves as having a share in the prosperity you've generated, you failed.
He wouldn't call it left, Trump.
He's a protectionist.
Today, what it means to be left economically is to be a redistributionist.
We raise taxes on the rich and we give it out and everybody lives off of the cheap illegal labor of a servant caste that has no civil rights.
That's the Democrats' view, right?
All the Democrats are in China.
That is the Democrats' view.
You're absolutely right.
Right.
Like they think the country is like they're all rich now.
Like the rich people in America are now Democrats.
And so they think that the country is like their households where you have to import servants from the third world to do the labor you don't want to do, like watch your own children, right?
Like this is kind of like today's left-wing model.
Trump is a protectionist, though.
That used to be very recognizably a left-wing model of economics.
The idea there being both in terms of his immigration policy and his tariff and foreign trade policy, that the thing you have to protect is the value of the labor of the American worker.
You just cannot leave that to the free market because you'll just end up in endless arbitrage, which is what we did, such that now manufacturing is being done by actual like Uyghur slaves in China.
It's not that it went the way of the horse and buggy.
Like manufacturing is still being done.
It's just being done in other countries.
And I think that protectionist model, to me, that's what a religious economics should look like, one that's rooted in the American religion.
So a very healthy respect for capitalism and private property and free markets, but within the borders of the nation.
That doesn't extend to other countries who are like legitimately in a Cold War with us and trying to destroy us, starting with the access that our working class has to the American dream.
You know, Ben and I have been having this argument ever since the Daily Wire started.
So I'm going to channel Shapiro here for a minute, except talk more slowly so you can understand what I'm saying.
The argument that he and I have is when a company ditches a town that has essentially been built around it and moves its factories to Mexico, it is doing something wrong.
You know, it's destroying a community.
And Ben and sometimes Jeremy would just say to me, well, people have to move.
You know, America has always depended on people being very mobile.
And my problem with that is you can't maintain conservative values in a country without communities, in a country where you don't know your neighbor and you don't like care about what's happening in the place around you.
So I'm for mobility, but I'm not for ultimate mobility.
Now, his argument.
But there's another, if I may just jump in right here.
They did that.
They moved to New York City and voted for Mamdani, right?
Like they did that.
The thing he's saying they should do, they did.
They moved to cities and became leftists and Democrats and progressives who mutilate children, who hate Jews.
Like they did it, right?
It failed.
It's bad, you know?
Like it's so he may be right that that's a model, but I don't think he likes the prescription that he himself gave.
We're seeing the fruits of that right now.
Like there's no city that has had a mass exodus from, you know, a destroyed Rust Belt town that, you know, that city then became conservative.
You know what I mean?
Like there's this entropic force that, you know, makes it go the other way.
Well, I think that I think you're right about this.
And I think Ben also is very, very fortunate that he has a community.
He can move into any Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in America and they will take him in his family, which is a beautiful thing.
And I'm not denying that.
I'm just saying not everybody has that.
And especially in America where we're all such mutts, you know, a lot of us don't have any place to go if we leave the people around us who are our friends.
Now, let me get to his argument, though.
His argument, though, is what are you going to do about it?
If the government says you can't move your business, it's no longer your business.
And now you've got a kind of fascist idea of government manipulating business.
My answer to that is the government has nothing to do with it.
People should boycott companies that leave.
They should absolutely just shut down all sales to them.
But do you have a different answer?
I mean, is that...
Sure. I...
I think Trump, this is the genius of Trump is like, he found a way to do it without coercion.
Like he, he's a bit of a mob boss, you know, but he's our mob boss.
Yeah, he's our mob boss.
So he calls them up and he cajoles and he threatens.
But what he did was he offered 0% corporate taxes if you reshore manufacturing, like the most obvious genius thing to do.
Like, so why not give an incentive?
The carrot didn't work.
Use the stick.
The stick was the tariffs, right?
So he's standing there and just doing the most subtle manipulation.
The left calls it Taco Tuesday, Trump always chickens out, because they cannot stand to see a person who's smart enough to just pivot.
Like who has, he has a huge ego, but he's not so wedded to any one idea that if he thinks it's not working, he's not willing to immediately sort of play with it a little bit, change the parameters.
Like we're seeing somebody operate at a level that I just like at this, like to move an economy that was basically an upward funnel of wealth for the last 60 years from the American working class into the pockets of the elites.
It's not really the billionaires, by the way.
That's a Democrats myth.
It's the top 10%.
It's the over-credentialed Mamdani base, you know, like they're the ones who are eating all of the GDP up.
They control over 60% of the GDP.
But, you know, what he did was he took that spigot and just turned it around.
And he did it so simply by controlling the labor supply, closing the border, mass deportations, immediate, immediate wage growth and all those industries that are, you know, have a lot, a big share, 25% that are illegals.
By the way, another myth, there's not such a thing that as a job Americans won't do.
There's not one industry in America that has more than a quarter of its share of illegal labor, and that includes agricultural hotel workers.
Like every industry you think is dominated by illegals, it's not.
It's dominated by Americans who are paid terrible wages because elites would rather die than clean a toilet.
So they cannot imagine that a person gets dignity out of doing that.
Of course, religious people understand that work is dignity.
The problem is, is we've made it undignified because people work really hard and can't afford to buy a home, right?
Like that, so that should be unacceptable spiritually.
So I don't think I wouldn't be comfortable with the government like, you know, seizing the means of production.
Although I have to say, I love the taking the stake in Intel.
Yeah, I don't know.
But again, we talked about this.
Like we gave Intel $50 billion.
I know, but if the government has a stake in it, then you can't compete with them.
And so if I'm sitting in my garage and I invent a better chip than Intel has, I should be able to build a company that destroys them, that just brings them to their knees, just like other companies have done throughout American history.
But if the government owns 10% of them, they're not going to let me do that.
Why not?
What are they going to do to you?
Well, they'll regulate me out of business because I'm just a small guy.
I don't have the lawyers to go through their regulations and the big companies do.
Big companies love regulations.
Big companies complain about regulations.
They love regulations.
I know, it's true.
It's a good point.
Although I have to say, I don't, Trump has been one of the top deregulators.
This is something that the only thing that bothers me really is that he's doing so much that a lot of it is not even penetrating to the consciousness, like what he did with the drugs, like getting us most favored nation pricing.
Do you understand what he like, it's just unfathomable what he did.
Like he managed to force like a trillion dollar company to just basically like offer us a better deal.
It's just like, and if in any other presidency, that would be the signature achievement of the first year, you know?
And instead, he never talks about it because he forgot that he did it.
I know, I know.
It's like closing the border.
You never hear about the border anymore because it's shut.
I mean, it's shut.
We were being invaded.
It was literally like he won a war, you know, without getting off his chair and nobody cares.
And like that, the thing in the Middle East, I mean, the peace that he has brought to the Middle East and the possibility that it's an enduring peace and a peace, a systemic peace.
Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
All right.
Now, we've been too nice to Trump.
Let's pick on him a little bit and see if I can get you to say something really nasty about him.
One thing that bothers me about Trump, and I understand the political reality, I understand it's the third rail of politics, but he basically won't touch the entitlements that are bleeding us dry.
I mean, you know, Social Security, Medicare.
I get it.
By the way, I think they can be easily fixed by simply raising the age in which they kick in when they were put in place.
I think the term of life in America was 63 years.
So it kicked in at 65 and everyone was dead.
But now it's like, it's now like 80.
People live to be 80, I hope.
And so it's ridiculous.
I mean, we can't afford to keep giving this money to people.
We're broke, basically.
We have no money.
So should he not deal with that?
Should he not have the courage to deal with that?
Or do you feel like it's just politically untenable?
Or are you in favor of it?
Where do you stand?
I think it's, so I'm against it, but also I think he won because he neutralized that issue and the abortion issue by staking out that moderate middle.
And if the Republicans veer on either of those issues from the place that Trump staked out for them, it's over.
They will not be competitive.
So he was able to free up millions of women who had never voted for a Republican before to vote for a Republican because he was like, yeah, I basically think abortion should be legal for six to 12 weeks, somewhere in there, which is where 80% of Americans are at.
He totally marginalized Project 2025.
He humiliated them again and again and again.
That was extremely brilliant and extremely important.
I think he did the same thing with entitlement reform.
He was like, I'm not going to touch your Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security.
Republicans And Older Voters00:05:29
To me, I think the GOP is working a little bit on muscle memory here.
So, you know, there's been this huge political realignment.
So it used to be that Republicans were the party of the country club and the Democrats were the party of labor.
And now it's the opposite.
Democrats represent the vast majority of rich people in this country and Republicans represent the vast majority of working class Americans.
And for the life of me, I cannot understand why the Republicans are dead set on giving tax cuts to rich Democrats.
You know what they do with that money?
They're rich.
They don't need it.
They spend it funding political campaigns of kooks and crazy people so that they just destroy Republicans at the ballot box.
And I just do not understand this.
The whole mentality of like, we should do entitlement reform.
Those are your voters.
So you want to take money from like broke people and give it broke Republicans and give it to rich Democrats.
I just for the life of me do not understand this.
And I do think that at some point the Republicans writ large are going to, Trump gets this.
I mean, Trump gets this because he knows all his rich friends are Democrats.
But I think that the party largely is still working off muscle memory of like 30 years ago when it was their voters who were rich and the Democrats who were poor.
And it's just to me, like it politically makes absolutely no sense.
You know, like most older people, most broke people who are working.
I'm not talking about like the bottom 10% who are just like living off of whatever.
Like those people who are struggling, who like the food stamps make all the difference, those seniors who are on that fixed income of Social Security, like they're Republicans.
Yeah, no, I get that.
I do get this, but I, but I also, see, I'm a little torn on this.
Now you have me here because I'm a little torn between between Pillar and Post.
I look at Obamacare.
I know people who are on Obamacare.
They're terrified that they're, you know, that the cost is going to go up because of the subsidies are over.
But the subsidies are endless.
I mean, Obamacare does not work.
You cannot fund.
You can't fund healthcare forever.
So I lived in Britain for seven years.
Going to the doctor there was like going back in time.
I mean, it really was.
It was like I expected them to show up at my house.
And they would make house calls, by the way, but I expected them to show up with like a carriage and four, you know, like a top hat and come in and say like, yes, we better bleed you.
You're going to put leeches on you.
You know, it's just insane.
I used to call my doctor in New York.
Just, I would say, I'm calling in the 21st century.
I just want to know what the hell I should do.
So there's got to be some way to reform that system so that the poor are not screwed.
I mean, I understand.
100%.
I mean, the rich are always going to get better health care.
That is the first thing that everybody has to understand.
They're older.
Well, I think on the healthcare front, the problem is, is that we are, it's an upward funnel of wealth.
So again, we're asking working class families who, you know, the majority of them, if they were just paying out of pocket, would spend $1,300 a year on health care, but they are forced or their employers are forced to spend $30,000 on their health care.
It's not for them.
It's for older and sicker people because the Obama mandate said everybody has to have health care and refused to put people in different buckets.
What we have to do is just separate those two things out and say like younger couples, we're not going to ask you to bear the burden of health care for older people who are paying much less than they're actually consuming.
It's not fair because those older people often have much more money.
We have to separate those things out.
You know, again, like, you know, rich people, most of them are Democrats.
They love higher taxes.
I don't understand why the Republicans are not out there being like, we're going to raise the top income bracket, you know, raise the taxes.
If you make over a million dollars a year, we're going to raise your taxes this much.
If you make over $50 million a year, we're going to raise it by this much.
We're going to take all that money and we're going to keep older people alive.
And stop asking a broke young couple with four kids who are struggling to make it and working four jobs to pay for the health care of those seniors.
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Well, I can tell you why people don't do that.
I mean, for one thing, if you tax, you know, you tax higher income, people stop making higher income.
Taxing Job Creators00:07:21
I mean, in other words, whatever you tax, you get less of.
And secondly, the people who make a lot of money are the job creators.
Even the people who would just sit on their butts and count their cash, hire chauffeurs, hire, you know, private plane flyers, all those things.
They create jobs.
And so as Andrew Cuomo found out in New York, they can move.
They can move away.
They can move out of America if they want.
And they can certainly move out of your state.
And when you lose them, you lose everything.
So like, I don't know if, I don't know if, like, I would like to see a flat tax.
I'd like to see everybody pays 10% and that's it.
And if the government can't live off that, the government has to cut back.
I mean, I would like to see the government roll itself back.
That would be an exciting moment in American history.
But okay.
I got to ask you, where do you think Elon Musk is going to go?
I mean, he could go to China, right?
He makes a lot of money in China.
He loves to go to the business.
He goes to Lafayette.
He can go anywhere.
He can go anywhere he wants.
He can go anywhere.
He's holding an island off the coast of America.
But I'm saying like the thing that makes America great is not the fact that Elon Musk doesn't have to pay higher taxes and he knows that.
Like he knows that.
The thing that makes America great is the people and the First Amendment and the freedom and the liberties.
Yeah, but part of that freedom is to make what money you want.
At no point in your making money does it become right for people to steal your money at gunpoint.
That becomes right.
I think the but here's the wonderful thing about most rich people being Democrats is they love paying higher taxes.
Like Democrats.
As Trump pointed out, they don't pay higher taxes because they know how to gin the system and because Nancy Pelosi makes sure they can gin the system so they can get out.
You know, let me just move on a minute because we're going to run out of time.
I want to get to the social stuff.
So you're a labor conservative, we'll say.
I labor liberal, I mean.
Where is the line on the social social freedoms?
So for instance, like I don't think it's any of my business what people do behind closed doors, but I think a society that is not a heterosexual, privileging, marriage-privileging, boy-girl, marriage-privileging society is going to come acropper.
I mean, I think that, but I also don't want people persecuted.
I lived through that world.
It was worse.
It was worse when gay people had to run and hide just because of who they were.
The transgender thing is another thing because it's a complete fantasy, but I'm just talking about the social life.
What would you like to see as a program for social life in America?
I think the Daily Wire is so important because you're producing culture that is beautiful and that young people can consume and pick up the values of family and tradition and religion and God and faith, gender roles, the strength that women bring that's unique to them as opposed to men.
I mean, I love that because I do think that that's a cultural thing.
I think Charlie was a big part of that too, just making it cool.
Such a huge loss.
So I do want to see that.
You know, I think we are seeing like a splitting of the like LGB, I would even say LG and then the BTQIA, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know, like you, it's, I think, you know, like nice middle class, loving gay couples, like to me, that's part of like the religious model.
That's part of the family model because I think it's also limited by nature.
Unlike the trans and the non-binary and all this crap that's just made up and endless and endlessly mutating.
You know, I think on an issue like abortion, when you have 80% consensus in a country like ours, which is filled with just the most tolerant people in human history, I kind of think, you know, a democracy would prioritize that.
So about 80% of Americans want a ban on stock trading for Congress members.
Your democracy is broken if like 80% of your country wants something and it's impossible to get it.
And I think the fact that 80% of Americans think abortion should be legal pretty much somewhere in the six to eight to 10, 12 weeks and pretty much illegal after that, unless the mother's dying.
That seems to me to be kind of the commonsensical play.
Like as a populist, I want to see policy reflect the inherent goodness of the American people.
So I guess on those fronts, I would say, yeah, and just I love what the president is doing, which is just saying like we should be proud to be faithful.
We should be proud to be in, you know, this religious community.
We should be doing what we can to encourage people to feel that that brings beauty and joy and love and life to their lives in a uniquely American way.
So I really love all of that.
And I think that that's, but a lot of it, I think, is more on the on the cultural front.
And that's why I think what the Daily Wire is doing is really irreplaceable.
And as Hollywood just completely, you know, clowns itself.
By the way, we now know why.
I don't know if you read this viral article about how white men were chased out of like all of the creative industries.
It's like, oh, that's what all of our movies are.
You don't have to tell me.
I mean, it's like, I know that, you know.
And, you know, listen, I think what you're saying is really important.
I think what the Daily Wire is doing may be irreplaceable, but I hope it's immitable.
I hope that other people start to do it because, you know, I would like to see no abortions.
I think abortion isn't an atrocity.
But when 80% of the people want it, the only way to get there is through cultures, by explaining to them, this is what this is.
This is what this looks like.
This is what it does.
Until people just think, you know, when I was a kid, I knew no one who got divorced.
I was in my late teens before anybody I knew got a divorce or had had a divorce.
And it wasn't a law against it.
I mean, it was difficult, but it was the fact that everybody thought divorce is a bad thing.
And I think that you can only affect that through the culture and the left just owns the culture.
They still own it.
I mean, we're still in the middle of the world.
But what's so disgusting about them, they will produce culture in which marriage is a patriarchal institution, but they all get married and have children in wed law and go to church.
Gives them an enormous economic advantage, while sentencing poors and blacks and working class people of all stripes to the immiseration of broken homes and children born out of wedlock.
It is so disgusting to me and the, of course, what they've done with that is narrow the competition for homes, for good doctors, for good schools, because only they can afford it.
It is so disgusting they.
It's a psyop.
It was a psyop to convince, you know, poor people not to get married so that their kids would be even poorer and that there would be less competition for the children of the elites.
It is the most disgusting thing.
Yeah oh, it's amazing and you saw it in real time during Covid, when they didn't send kids back to school and and you know, my grandkids are doing fine, but I know a lot of poor kids are doing just awful and they'll never catch up.
They will never catch up and they did it to appease the teachers union.
You're, you're totally right about this.
Understanding Compassion And Tolerance00:02:40
I mean the rich people I know.
The happiest people I know are married people.
They're faithful people, they're people who work hard and you know, but also take care of their family.
That's, that's what leads to happiness and they basically have told people you don't have to do that, we'll take care of you.
We'll take that, we'll live for you, we'll take care of it for you.
So what do you see going forward?
I mean, when you think Trump I, I think this stuff about Trump having a third term is complete nonsense, I.
But what do you?
Who would you like to see step up in in Trump's place?
Um, I think somebody who understands um, what was in what what, what Maga was all about, what the Trump movement was about.
Like someone who understands, like the left portrayed Trump as like a 21st century George Wallace, but he was a 21st century Fdr um.
Who understands that modern conservatism is very extreme on some things like immigration um, but that that's where most Americans are at.
You know, every poll that's come out in the last year has support, majority support, for deporting every single illegal alien.
And when I would go on CNN, they would say well, it's only 56 percent, that's not like a mandate, that's just slightly above half.
And I would say well, do you think it's more likely that people are lying and that they actually want your deportations, or do you think it's likely that people are lying because they're embarrassed to admit that they actually want much more.
You know, when I was reporting my book, Second Class, almost every working class person, whether they were a Democrat Republican, said the same thing to me, they wanted much less immigration and much more access to health care.
That that combination, you know um, I think is extremely important.
Obviously, i'm not gonna support somebody who cannot easily say that Nick Fuentes has no place in the Republican Party, like that's kind of.
You know, you have to have limits, as as Ben Shapiro has been really out front on this um, a real, real savior for the party, I think um, but also somebody who understands that most working class conservatives, including very, very religious ones, are very pro-gay.
They they, they Feel very protective of the gay family members.
Because they've all got uncles.
They want people to live in dignity.
And so I guess what I'm saying is I'm looking for the person who isn't out there proving the left's caricature of the MAGA movement correct, but who truly understands that this movement is rooted in compassion and tolerance and the dignity of labor.
I think that's kind of where I'm at.
Seeking Compassionate Leaders00:01:15
Can you give me a name or you don't have one yet?
Come on.
Obviously, like, you know, it's the whole, you know, I think somebody who has proven very nimble in their thinking, who seems to me to be unafraid to speak the truth, but who has a really strong understanding of, you know, what the movement is about and also a strong moral center and inner core when it comes to his values would be someone like Marco Rubio.
Interesting.
Okay.
I love Rubio.
He's done such a great job.
I know he's elevated himself way beyond where he was.
I don't just say if Tulsi Gabbard is in the running, you know, she's kind of like me.
She's somebody who seems to have like a very similar orientation to me.
I think she's an incredible person and on foreign policy, domestic, whatever.
But there's a lot of great, great people out there.
Batya, Batia Unger Sargon, she has a show, a weekend show, Batia on News Nation, and she is an anger.
I'm glad you didn't put your last name in there because I can never remember it or pronounce it once I remember it.
It is always a joy to talk to you, Bacha.
Really interesting conversation.
Thank you for coming on.
I hope you come back and I hope you have a great holiday.
God bless you.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'll see you again.
So this should air New Year's Eve.
So I hope you all have a very happy new year.
And I'll see you again in the new year on the Andrew Clavin Show.