Cyrus Nowrasteh, a conservative filmmaker, faced Disney censorship in 2006 for The Path to 9/11, which tied Bill Clinton’s scandals to the attacks, burying it after $6M+ production. His 2024 film Sarah’s Oil—a $17M Western about an 11-year-old Black girl’s oil inheritance in Jim Crow-era Oklahoma—scored 98% on Rotten Tomatoes among audiences but was called "regressive" by the NYT for its faith portrayal. Despite ideological backlash, it became a box office hit with 2,410 screens. Nowrasteh credits luck and resilience, noting Hollywood’s shift toward micro-budget films outside studios, while his banned Iranian film The Stoning of Soraya M. circulates underground. His upcoming Brazil thriller signals bold defiance amid industry pressures. [Automatically generated summary]
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So ultimately, I think that Bob Iger, who has made, I think, cowardice very conventional in Hollywood, he basically buried it.
Hey, everyone, it's Andrew Klavan with this week's interview with Cyrus Nawasta, a terrific director and somebody who really helped me out when I was in Hollywood.
It is very, very hard.
I didn't really like Hollywood all that much.
Whenever I needed advice, I could ask Cyrus, and his advice was always good.
And it was also always kind of calibrated for me because he would just tell me to tell people to go to hell, which was really surprising.
And the other thing that's surprising is that he has lived a highly successful life as a really, as a rebel artist in a town that basically crushes rebels.
I mean, all the guys who think they're rebels in Hollywood are mostly make-believe rebels who agree with everybody else.
But here is a guy who wrote The Path to 9-11, one of the most successful mini-series in history about the fact that both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush committed failures that helped 9-11 happen.
It has been banned from being released on any other form.
You cannot get it because they will not release it.
And I'm going to talk to him about that.
It's one of the true ugly pieces of censorship coming out of Hollywood.
He made the film The Stoning of Soraya M., which was a harrowing tale of a woman being judiciously murdered, let's call it, in Iran.
That film, like people, people didn't pile into the theaters for that film because it was so harrowing, but it's still being passed around in secret in that country.
He made The Young Messiah, which is my priest, one of my priests' favorite movie.
He's always citing, he mentions it in sermons and everything like that.
And I've won favor by saying I know the guy who made that movie.
And he's got a new film out called Sarah's Oil, which I watched last night.
It has a 98% rating among real people on Rotten Tomatoes.
And shockingly, it has an 83%, a very high rating among critics, which for a film like this, which is a religious film, a film that basically upholds faith.
I'm going to read you a review in the New York Times, and you'll see why I'm surprised that the critics gave it so high.
It has Zach Levy in it, a friend of the Daily Wire, and he's really, really good at it.
Here's the New York Times review: Viewers might make out a regressive strain reinforcing the feel-good mood, let alone the incidental worship of fossil fuel.
The movie's emotional core is a black girl's belief in her white protector.
So that's what Cyrus has been up against his whole life.
And yet, this film is a hit.
It was, I think, number three in the box office is doing great.
Cyrus, it's great to see you again.
So, you had to quote, of all, of all the reviews you could have quoted, you quoted the negative one.
You know what?
It's like Betsy, my co-writer, who you know very well, and my wife for 44 years.
She says, Oh, but it's their most positive of the negative reviews they've given you.
Yeah, you have been called, you have been called everything.
And the fact that you keep working.
I want to talk to you about the fact that you keep working, but first, let's talk about the movie because I don't think there's anybody else like you who has done the things you've done and still gets hired.
I can't think of anybody else like that.
So, first of all, tell the story.
What's the story of Sarah's will?
Well, basically, it's based on a true character named Sarah Rector in 1913, Jim Crow, Oklahoma.
She received 160 acres because part of her family heritage was tied into the five Indian nations, the Creek Nation, actually.
And she was black who had slaves.
So, her ancestors had been slaves of Indian tribes.
A fact which very few people know.
So, she, so Oklahoma just become state.
They're trying to settle the land.
They gave her 160 acres like they did of many other people.
More often than not, they gave them useless, infertile land that no one else wanted.
Her father could not afford a $30 a year property tax on it.
He wanted to sell it.
And she said, No, God gave me that land for a reason.
And she came to believe that there was oil on that land.
And long story short, she gets proven right.
And that's when her problems really began.
So, yeah, there's oil on that there land.
And it is an amazing, it's an amazing story.
How true is this story?
It said inspired by a true story at the beginning.
You know, how close did you say?
How true is it?
True enough.
Yeah, it made a sense.
It's a movie.
You made a story out of it.
No, one of the problems with this kind of story, and I believe wholeheartedly that other filmmakers came across this story and backed away because they thought, we don't know enough.
We don't know enough.
And I need the fact of the matter is I read a couple of pieces about it.
We dug stuff up, court records, et cetera.
And what's left of the story is very dry stuff.
And you know, as a screenwriter and novelist yourself, it's all in the details.
Right.
So we knew, for example, if you got the alphabet, we knew A and G.
We had to fill in the rest.
Right.
And then we knew N and P, you know, so it I said to Betsy, I said, you know, we're writers.
We will fill in the gaps.
Yeah, we'll do the best we can.
And we did a bunch of research.
I went to oil museums.
You know, I traveled the route.
I went to the town, the black town where she grew up in Oklahoma.
And we wrote it.
And sure enough, the family, her heirs, all of whom live in Kansas City, saw the movie and they say, you got it.
That's her.
Wow.
And I would call it informed conjecture in between the facts that we know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we did a lot of research on these oil guys.
And I think Zach Levi, I think it's a great part.
I think Zach is unlike anything you've seen him.
He's based on some real eccentric characters.
And you can't help but have a lot of life and color in the oil boom world.
Also, a lot of darkness, a lot of evil and a lot of greed and a lot of nasty things being done to people.
I thought it was a, look, I came across this thing years ago.
And I thought, well, I'm not black.
I don't know if I can get this set up.
It's just like we're sitting around during the pandemic trying to figure out what to do with our time.
So we wrote it and we completely and fully believed that no one would let us make the movie.
And then people started reading the script.
And I probably had two scripts in my career where I knew from the first reads this movie's getting made.
Really?
So, and this was one of them.
So I wasn't convinced or positive that it would get made necessarily with me making it, but I knew it would get made from the reactions I was getting to the script.
So why would you think, though, I mean, the story is so touching.
It's so sweet.
It's just got, you know, it was inspiring.
Why would you think it would be hard to sell a story like that?
Well, first of all, it's period peace.
Yeah.
The lead is an 11-year-old girl.
I don't think movies necessarily just because they're sweet get sold.
I mean, it's a crowd piece.
If that's your premise, I don't buy it.
Okay.
I just don't.
But it's a crowdpoint film.
Who's the one?
Then every after school special and every Hallmark movie would be a huge hit.
And Hollywood would be making them and repeating them in the hundreds.
I don't buy the premise.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
And the movie has a lot of dark moments in it.
Children get killed in it.
Her life is clearly in danger.
She has to go on the run.
See, none of this stuff is in the trailers and in the marketing.
It's marketed basically as a very soft kind of Christian movie.
It's a very edgy movie.
And I wrote it.
We wrote it, excuse me, as a borderline PG-13R movie.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then gradually, as you, you know, we had four different entities interested in making the movie.
You realize, well, this is the lane they want to go into.
And so, well, we got to take out the blood net scene.
We got to take out this word netsing.
We got to take, can you take this?
It's like you have to fight these battles.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And at the end of the day, usually the marketers win.
But I think we got a good compromise sort of, I've had people tell me, well, it's pretty intense for a PG movie.
When I saw the ads for the movie, I wasn't expecting that.
You know, I don't want to give away stuff.
But it's, you know, it's an edgier movie than one would imagine.
We didn't think of it as this big sweet movie.
It's, I mean, this, this little girl really has to go on the run.
It becomes a national story.
So I think people find that out when they see it.
So they bring this film out and it wasn't, I won't call it a limited release.
It wasn't like in two theaters or anything like that.
But it was a smaller release geared toward getting it onto streaming, sort of a run up the stream.
And then it's number three on the box office.
It's actually a hit.
I mean, it actually did really well.
Were the studios surprised?
I think when we went over the 10 million mark, I mean, look, the point is the movie was made for about 17 and change.
Okay.
Okay.
Which is low budget, certainly for Amazon MGM.
Okay, it's low budget for anybody.
The fact that you could do a period piece.
I see the movie as a Western.
The fact that you can do a period piece that has that for that number, shooting in the United States, that's a tall order.
So, you know, I think their expectations were it'll be a nice movie.
We'll get it on streaming and it'll play well.
But I think they really responded to the movie.
We did test previews.
You know about those.
We did three test previews that scored through the roof.
And I think they thought, wow, maybe this is worth a theatrical release.
And they went for it.
And, you know, I think it was really the test previews that put us in theaters, those numbers.
We were scoring.
I mean, you score over 70%, you know, highly definite recommend or whatever, the top two boxes.
If you score 70% of the top two boxes, they're ecstatic.
They think, you know, you're showheotani.
You've hit a, you know, grand slam in the World Series.
Yeah.
We were getting scores in the low 90s, 92s and 94s.
And I think they said, well, let's give it a shot.
So they opened at 2,410 screens, I believe.
The first two weeks, it played in all those screens.
We didn't lose screens after the first week.
So I think they felt like, hey, this is doing all right in the theaters.
I think it's going to stay for a while yet.
And I also think they realized they've really laid a nice groundwork for the streaming release.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, listen, 98% on Rotten Tomatoes as somebody who wrote a film who has 0% on Rotten Tomatoes.
That's a big deal.
You know, that's like, that means the people.
It's not the critics because the critics you can ignore because they'll make political judgments and things like that.
But that means the people who are loving the film.
And I don't blame them.
It's a really immersive, very moving film.
And you've got this little girl.
I kept looking at it.
I couldn't help think of you.
I thought, was it hard to direct you a little?
She's great in it.
I mean, she's like, she's flawless.
Is that tough?
Well, yeah, it is tough.
I had directed a child lead in The Young Messiah.
And he was a nine-year-old who was playing a seven-year-old.
And he's playing Jesus.
Disney's Immersive Journey00:15:33
Okay.
And he was saying, I remember at one point, he's a wonderful kid and gave a wonderful performance in The Young Messiah as Young Jesus.
But at one point, I remember saying to him rehearsals, you know, young Jesus is not a smart aleck.
So it's really about holding and shaping the with Naya.
The thing that shined for us, and we saw over 500 girls that shined for us about her was she is present.
She's, you know, she's engaged.
She's in the moment.
Yeah.
And to me, that's 90% of AFTA.
You know, and she wasn't an experienced actress by any means.
She hadn't done a lot.
She had done nothing.
I mean, she did one episode of TV and a short.
So, and in the episode, I think she had two scenes.
So, but you audition her and you work hard.
You try and get help.
I had a sort of a dialogue coach, acting coach who could spend offset time with her.
And we strategize what to focus on and this and that.
But, you know, more than anything else, she was just there.
Yeah.
And she's a darling child and she's got this exuberance and she's not darling and she knows it.
She's, you know, she's natural.
And she's great.
I mean, I think she's the heart of the movie.
She just got the Rising Star Award.
She hasn't received the award yet, but they've announced it for the Black Movie Hall of Fame.
Oh, there you go.
Movie Intelligence Hall of Fame.
So I'm hoping that more awards come her way because she deserves it.
I know you're all asking yourself, how can that guy look so good 20 years after he passed away?
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Yeah, and Zach is great.
I thought he was actually a revelation.
I've seen him a number of times, but I thought he turned in his best performance here.
It's like just very, I almost didn't recognize when he started out.
I thought, I know this guy, but I didn't know who it was.
And I thought, oh, yeah, there he is.
It was really good.
No, you're absolutely right.
Other people have said that.
And I personally consider that a real compliment because the goal was to have him be different than he's been in other roles and to really feel like this is a guy who's out there with the roughnecks.
And, you know, he's a speculator.
He's a gambler.
He's a little bit, you know, you're not sure at a certain point in the movie whether he's going to rip her off.
And it's a very, you know, faceted role.
And Zach is a remarkable actor.
He just really is.
Yeah.
And he really inhabited this guy.
He was the first actor I went to.
This is the second movie where I've gotten first actor I've gone to.
And that's a rare thing.
And by the way, when we went to him, it wasn't set up anywhere.
I just had a script.
So he obviously responded to the material and to the part, and he delivered big time.
So let's talk about, let's talk about your career a little bit because it has been a remarkable, a unique career in a lot of ways.
You are not, I'm sure as the audience can tell, you're not a nice person at all.
And it's like, no, you're a very prickly guy in the best sense of that word.
And as I, you have, you have frequently, and I can be very prickly, but usually in Hollywood, I would either just turn down things or I'd quit or whatever.
And you gave me great advice a number of times where you would say, no, you can go in and tell them, you know, go to hell here, but give them a little bit here.
And that, you know, you've always had a really great instinct for dealing with it.
But you make you make this film the path to 9-11.
And I always I've been wanting, dying to write an article about this.
And I just have not had the time to do it.
It's been very frustrating.
But the path to 9-11 came out.
What year was that?
06.
And it basically showed that Bill Clinton, because he was involved in the scandal of screwing this girl in the Oval Office, did not have the sort of political wherewithal to take out Osama bin Laden when he needed to be taken out.
And therefore, we 3,000 people died.
And they made you cut that back somewhat, but you left, it was in there when it came in.
The show came out.
It was a huge success on TV.
Why is that not released for streaming or any other platform?
Well, from what I've been told and from what I understand, it was, you know, Clinton was, Clinton was very close to sort of Disney and, you know, Bob Iger.
And who was the guy?
He's not in politics now, who's actually on the Disney board.
He was a prominent Democrat, very prominent Democrat.
Anyway, the name escapes me at the moment, but who was on the Disney board.
And, you know, Clinton, I think they had pulled off some favorites for Disney.
I think one of them may have been, I have heard anyway, and I read the extension of the copyright on Mickey Mouse, which is kind of important to a company like Disney.
So apparently, Clinton felt betrayed by Disney.
And, you know, they made it very clear that, you know, we're not happy.
So what does Bob Iger do?
If he cancels, which we thought, I thought it was going to happen, came very close to happening.
He literally cancels the airing of this mini-series.
He's going to look like, I mean, he's going to get run out of town.
He's just going to look really terrible.
So they decide, we're going to cut three minutes.
Well, the problem is you can't cut out what it's about.
And that came across.
And there were more complaints and more.
So ultimately, I think that Bob Iger, who has made, I think, tower is very conventional in Hollywood.
He basically buried it.
There were other companies, major companies who wanted to free it from them.
They said, no, sorry, not for sale.
And, you know, they were going to run it every year on 9-11.
That was the original plan.
They had a whole plan to show it at schools, part of a scholastic sort of classroom program about history and 9-11 and all of that.
All that stuff was buried, canceled.
They never ran it again.
They never even released it on DVD.
It's just to appease the Clintons.
Absolutely.
And, you know, time passes, people forget, except for you.
Yeah, no, to me, it is an amazing act of censorship.
I mean, I just remember when I was working in LA, people were always saying, all Hollywood cares about is money.
And I thought they don't care about money at all.
They care about their stupid ideology because that's, you know, what gets them girls and gets them the awards and gets them all the free.
But let's look at where Hollywood is now.
It's dead, right?
It's dead.
Yeah.
I mean, look, when I heard the expectation numbers on Sarah's Oil for the theatrical, and then I was hearing, well, that's pretty good.
And that's this.
And I said to myself, my God, this business is shrunk.
And it's another reason why if you want to get a movie made today, you better get your budget down or it's not happening.
Because it's a different business.
And I attributed a great deal of it anyway to exactly what you just pointed out, which it isn't about money anymore.
It has become about ideology.
It has become about sort of saying all the right things that all your friends agree with.
You can all go to parties and agree with one another.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's astonishing what they've done because look, that really hit movies hard.
And then the pandemic hit movies really hard.
And maybe with some of the things that are happening at Paramount, the way some of the places in town I think are trying to open up to this huge audience out there that they think is willing to go to movies.
Yeah.
For example, Sound of Freedom and others.
Maybe it'll change.
But we'll see.
Meanwhile, we try to get our things made and hope and pray.
Well, that's what I want to ask you about because I get a lot of sad letters.
I can't get anything done because I'm a conservative and all this stuff.
And, you know, you made the stoning of Soriah M, which I found, I thought it was an excellent film, but it was a harrowing film.
I remember you sitting down next to me in a bar looking kind of distraught.
And I turned to you and I said, let me guess, let me guess.
Nobody wants to take their date to a movie where we get stoned to death.
We kind of knew that.
We kind of knew that.
But it was a mission movie.
And so we made it per price, once again, and we did smuggle it inside of Iran.
And it did have a huge impact inside of the run.
But how many mission movies can you get made?
How many people are willing to lose money for an idea?
And the amazing thing to me is the number of people I run into who say they saw the movie.
It's like, really?
Yeah.
It's like we should be in profit by now.
Is it even on?
Can you get that on streaming?
No.
That's amazing.
It was, I think it was too violent for streaming.
Also, we, yeah, these are decisions of yours, truly.
Yeah.
This also was done in Parsi with subtitles.
Right.
And also, I wanted to show what a stoning really was like.
So I'm the culprit.
Yeah.
But I'm very, I'm very proud of that movie.
I can't tell you.
I'm very proud of that movie.
So it's a wonderful film.
It's a so your Path to 9-11 is censored.
The story of Soriah M is not beloved.
How do you keep making movies?
I mean, and now you've got it.
No, but now you've got a hit.
Now I can see how your career proceeds from here.
But how did you get to this?
I mean, how do you?
Well, you know, the thing is, I had existed before I had been outed.
I had been working in this town for decades, as you had been.
Okay.
And I had established a pretty good reputation.
I'd been involved with some very successful television stuff.
I was on, I worked, my first show I worked on was The Equalizer of First Season.
Right.
I wrote the pilot for La Fem Nikita, which became a huge hit for USA Network at the time.
And then I was involved with some other successful television shows.
I had done a movie at Showtime that I wrote and directed called The Day Reagan Was Shot.
It was a two-hour movie.
It came out in 2001.
Oliver Stone produced it.
And it is still the highest-rated two-hour movie show time's ever done.
So I was sort of associated with some successful things before people started to worry about supposedly what my politics are.
And so I felt like I had a good groundwork with people that I'd worked with who knew me and who liked working with me.
Now, the glib answer to your question, if we want to reverse this back, is why are you still working?
It's all about talent.
Well, yeah, but you know, I mean, that's true.
But let's accept that as a baseline.
You're right.
It's like, okay, I was working before.
And it's like, all right.
So, and the other thing is after what happened with Path, and which I thought at the time for a short period anyway, was going to affect my career in a negative way, which I know other people's careers have been affected negatively.
But I think that the bottom line is it opened up other doors.
It opened up other doors.
And the fact that I was also a director, I think, really helped.
And so I started meeting people who wanted to do the kind of movies I wanted to, who wanted to maybe try and get a stony sorry on there.
They want to do, I did a movie called Infidel with Jim Cavizze.
Yeah.
It came out in 2020.
And, you know, there are people who said, you know, I want to be involved with that and what it says.
And so it did open some doors.
And there are still, there's still this, I don't know, this group of people who I worked with before all of that who feel like they know me, who aren't afraid of me sending them something that I have, you know, or something.
I mean, with Sarah's own, it's like I said to you, that was one of the two scripts I've ever written that I just knew from the first responses to the script, this is going to be a me.
And we had a lot of interest in it right away.
And, you know, it's also not wallowing in the negativity.
I get those letters too, the same letters that you get.
Yeah.
And you've just, you've got to, it's almost like there's something within us sometimes that reaches for the excuse before reaching, you know, for the reason to do it.
Yeah.
Or go at least go down that path.
It's like that thing that another writer whose name I forget.
I remember your name, Andrew.
I appreciate that.
I didn't wear my tags.
He wrote The War of Art, okay?
Pressfield.
Pressfield, that's a great little book.
Oh, yes.
And I tell people to read it all the time.
And he talks about resistance.
And excuses are just another form of resistance.
Movies With Production Value00:03:25
And yes, movies are hard to make, but we have the technology today where people are able to make movies within a certain micro budget that they couldn't before.
Yeah.
That at least that have a production value that they couldn't before.
So a lot of it is just, I don't know.
And you know what else?
I've been lucky.
Well, everybody who succeeds has been lucky at some point, but you're talented and lucky is true.
But it is this kind of determination and not letting, you know, not letting the opposition get in your way, not letting it get in your head.
When you look ahead, I mean, as you said, Hollywood, I've never seen Hollywood so dead.
I've never seen the culture so dead, actually, all in all.
I think the great awokening basically killed art.
But it will come back because the human spirit doesn't die.
So what do you look for in your optimistic moments to happen in Hollywood next?
Well, I think it's expanding beyond Hollywood.
I think that's a big step.
Finding these new audiences, you know, regional filmmaking, filmmakers who don't have to come to LA or go to New York to do their thing.
You know, there's a big article in the Hollywood Reporter about these micro stories or whatever, these, these, these, these short versions with people watching.
And somebody tried to do that before and it failed miserably.
I do think the art form, the story form of the sort of classic 90 minute to two hour movie is going to be around for a long time.
How many people will be watching it, how much money it'll make, how big a business it'll be, I have no idea.
I think that form is one that people are very comfortable with it.
And I, you know, I felt that when we were watching Sarah's Oil, now Sarah's Oil is about an hour and 43 minutes.
And, you know, this is very self-serving, but I felt like a lot of people kind of thought, wow, movies can be good.
Tell a good story.
And I can get emotionally caught up in them.
And I'd see it in people's faces that they hadn't had that kind of experience at the movies for a while.
Yep.
I know it's true.
I mean, you know, Tom Cruise does it and just not that many people are even trying to entertain you.
They're trying to tell you what to think.
Cyrus, it's good to see you.
What do you, I'm out of time, but can you give me in a second what you're doing now?
I know you're filming another.
I'm shooting a movie quite different from Sarah's Oil.
It's an edgy political thriller set in Brazil, dealing with the politics of Brazil.
And I really can't say much more.
Okay.
Sounds cool.
It's great to see you.
Congratulations on the film.
It's a terrific film and it's doing great.
And it's nice to see.
It's nice to see you live.
You'll live to fight another day.
Tell Betsy I said hi and said my love.
And hi to Alan.
Thank you.
I'll see you soon.
All right, Cyrus Nawasta.
You should watch his films where you can.
I mean, it's very tough to get hold of some of his work, but go see Sarah's Oil, Gus.
Give him some support.
You'll love it.
It's not like I'm telling you to go see something that'll bore the hell out of you.
It's really an entertaining and heartwarming movie.
And I think it's a family film.
Maybe it's more edgy than maybe little kids will see, but I think it's a family film.
It has wonderful messaging, wonderful acting, and just good drama.