The Great Feminization dissects economist Tyler Cowan’s claim that modern society—with women dominating politics, law schools, and academia—prioritizes empathy over logic, citing the Kavanaugh hearings as evidence of "wokeness" undermining objectivity. Andrew Klavan argues this shift stems from economic pressure, not personal choice, while warning that individual freedoms (like gay rights or Islamist influence) can destabilize collective norms, contrasting it with his defense of traditional marriage and masculine roles. Letters from fans highlight cultural clashes—Alona praises Klavan’s pro-Trump stance, Hazel struggles with her husband over gender roles—and the episode pivots to Nefarious, a Netflix-funded thriller exposing digital sex trafficking, where Steve Deese credits vaccine-hesitant editors for its success. Ultimately, the discussion frames societal feminization as a threat to meritocracy and stability, urging listeners to resist "feelings-based" policies while embracing personal agency over systemic surrender. [Automatically generated summary]
The New York mayor election is a few days away, and all across the city, New Yorkers are already preparing for a victory by Democrat Zoran Momdani.
Some prepare by using their laptops as kickboards and attempting to paddle across Long Island Sound to Connecticut.
Others are staging reenactments of the scene in the Ten Commandments where people gather their belongings and livestock and head into the wilderness for 40 years rather than facing the future at home.
More philosophical and reflective New Yorkers simply sit in the shadow of the noose they've hung from these ceiling heating pipes, weeping quietly into their pumpkin spice lattes.
Meanwhile, Momdani continues his charisma-fueled campaign with his face lit by a smile so charming it reminds supporters of Pennywise the Clown just before he entices a child into the sewer by offering him a red balloon.
In an appearance before a gathering of the American Federation of Islamist terrorists bent on killing everybody and blaming Israel, the AFITBKEBI, Mamdani delivered his closing arguments to an enthusiastic crowd, gayly decked out in brightly colored sticks of dynamite.
Mamdani said, quote, when I am mayor, there will be free buses powered by rainbow-colored unicorn farts and health care that will be paid for by taxing all the rich people who used to live here before they left so I wouldn't be able to tax them.
And there'll be government grocery stores where the shelves will be packed with totally free luxury goods that you can almost see if you close your eyes and imagine very hard.
And sure, I've claimed the police are oppressors funded by the Jews.
And sure, I've said I want to seize the means of production just like the murderous tyrant Vladimir Lenin.
And yes, I've supported terrorists and criminals who prey on the innocent, but those are just things I actually believe in.
This is the time to forget all that and come into the sewer where I'll give you a red balloon, unquote.
The speech was broadly criticized by virulent Islamophobes and other groups opposed to being blown up and beheaded.
But the people who were there greeted Mamdani's words with explosive applause, or just explosives.
Some Democrats have hesitated to endorse Mamdani.
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, for instance, can't decide whether to press the big red button marked, I have no core beliefs, so I'll pretend to stand with the lunatic base, or the identical red button marked, I have no core beliefs, so I'll pretend to reject extremism in case there are still some Democrats who aren't total scumbags like myself.
On the other hand, New York Governor Kathy Hochl has gone all in, endorsing Mamdani at the annual meeting of the Society for Evil Clowns Who Entice Innocent Children into Sewers with Red Balloons, or the S-E-C-E-I-C-S-R-B.
Governor Hochl said, quote, When people ask me why I endorse Zorin Momdani for New York Mayor, I simply tell them, look in my eyes.
Do you see anything there but an endless darkness in which values and ethics are dissolved to nothing by the acid of my ambition and love of power?
How could you, when my very soul is a portal into a living hell of desire for the empty simulacrum of love that is the vote of fools who are being enticed into a catastrophe of American hating dysfunction by their own ignorance and envy, which allow them to be charmed out of rational thought by a creepy smile and obvious lies.
So vote for Momdani.
Otherwise, I'll just have to live with myself, which would be intolerable.
Cameron Winter's Tough Tale00:07:37
Unquote.
Hochl's speech was praised for its startling honesty by the editorial board of the New York Post just before they headed downtown with backpacks full of gold bars in the hopes they could bribe their way through the Holland Tunnel and reach New Jersey.
But Momdani continues to have the support of younger voters like one 25-year-old who told reporters, quote, I love Mandani because he reminds me of the golden days of my childhood and that funny clown who hid in the sewer and offered me a red balloon.
I can't exactly remember what happened after that, but I guess we're about to find out.
Trigger warning.
I'm Andrew Klavan, and this is The Andrew Klavan Show.
All right, we are back, laughing our way through too much winning.
It is good to be back.
I'm sorry I missed last week.
And now, after that, the dark is finally published.
I don't have to ask you to pre-order it.
I will ask you to order.
I now command you to order it now that there's no, you know, it's not, it's obvious.
You just go out and buy it and it comes to your door.
You already put my last book this year, another book out this year on the New York Times bestseller list.
This is going to be very hard because the New York Times fiction list is packed with romantic novels, which are just doing really well.
So they're selling at about double the pace of the usual bestseller.
So it's going to be tough, but go ahead.
Come on, give it the old college try.
Don't give up.
You will, I promise, love the book.
And I have to tell you, I was talking about this on all access.
My books are published by Mysterious Press, which is run by Otto Penzler, who is probably the most, not probably, he is the most important person in mystery fiction publishing in the 20th century.
I mean, he is just the sort of cornerstone of all mystery fiction publishing, and he's always had small presses.
And he is a guy who stood and continued to publish me when I was canceled, when I was not, when people wouldn't review me anymore, when it was a really tough time, and he never wavered.
He always kept publishing me.
And now these Cameron Winter books are published, are selling very well.
But the one thing that Otto has never done in the mystery world, he's got a million anthologies that he edited himself.
The one thing he's never done is put a book on the New York Times list.
He's now, he's older than me, so he's actually before the Garden of Eden.
You know, I mean, I was in the Garden Eden, but he's like before that, whenever that, remember the chaos before God said, let there be light.
So I would love to put this book on the New York Times list.
It is the story, obviously, of a man.
Cameron Winter is a man who's trying to get away from his assassin, his past as a government assassin.
But as he falls in love and he falls, uncovers this incredibly vast conspiracy, he finds out that he's actually willing to kill anybody to protect the woman he loves.
So it's a thriller, it's a love story, and it is a mystery story as well.
I will be at the Barnes Noble Cool Springs at 2 p.m. tomorrow Saturday, November 1st, at 1701 Mallory Lane in Brentwood, Tennessee.
I'll also do a signing in New York on the 11th, I think, but I'll tell you about that later.
Saturday, 2 p.m. in Brentwood, Tennessee at Barnes Nobles, and I'll be talking with my pal, Clay Stafford, who is Nashville's crime fiction Maven.
I talked to him at the BoucherCon.
He always does a really good interview.
Also, leave a comment wherever you are.
Even if you're just lying in the gutter, leave it on the curb.
You know, that's where we mostly hang out anyway.
And if it is the kind of thing that belongs in the gutter, damn it, we'll read it right here on the show because that's where we live.
That's where our hearts are.
Today's comment is from Memory Media 6188.
He says, Nick Fuentes and the Groypers have always covertly pushed fascism, socialism, and communism all behind America First.
Keep calling him out.
Thank you.
Tucker Carlson actually interviewed him as if he were being criticized, and he talked as if he were being criticized for criticizing Israel instead of calling for the death of American Jews, which he has also done.
All right, let's get to today's episode, The Great Feminization.
In chapter one, I'm going to be talking about the great feminization, which is a phrase invented by economist Tyler Cowan, and it was used by Helen Andrews in a recent speech she made at NatCon, which I read while I was in Austria as an article in CompactMag.com.
And Helen talks about the effects of living in a feminized society, a society more feminized than any society in history.
And this is one of those effects is very close to my heart.
This cut one.
Some of you may have read in the last 12 months one of several articles in the New York Times about how men don't read novels anymore.
And the explanation why, which is very obvious to me, even if it's not obvious to the New York Times, is that the publishing industry is overwhelmingly female, almost 80% female.
So men do still like to read novels.
They just don't like to read the kinds of novels that today's publishing industry produces.
Exactly, exactly right.
And one of the reasons I decided to turn Cameron Winter into a series, which is the only time I've ever done a series, was because I noticed in the 2000s when we had the golden age of television, I've talked about this before.
You know, we had shows like Sopranos and The Shield and Breaking Bad and Dead Wood and the Wire and Justified to some extent.
They were all shows about anti-heroes.
They were all shows about bad guys who were macho.
And of course, the obvious reason was that when you outlaw masculinity, only outlaws can be men.
And that, and I was watching that because I had been writing those characters in books like True Crime 10 years before.
This is one of the curses I have: I always tell you, I give you tomorrow's news today.
I also write the culture, tomorrow's culture today.
And sometimes I've been a little bit too far ahead.
I was about 10 years ahead of my time there.
But I started to think, well, okay, so now you know what a man is, but you don't know what a good man is, you know, because the good men on TV are always depicted as the guys who are, first of all, they all look like they have a stick up them.
And that's the first thing.
And the second thing is they're always like letting women, you know, not standing up for women.
They let women take care of themselves.
And they don't want to lead women.
Women can lead themselves.
All of which just doesn't happen to be true.
And so they don't look like men at all dealing with real women at all.
So I wanted to write a story about Cameron Winter, who has done anti-hero things that can't be taken back.
But now he wants to find out what it means to be a tough guy, but a good guy.
And that's the trajectory of the series.
And a lot of it has played out.
And after that, in the dark, you get the whole trajectory in that one book.
And, you know, this is the thing.
I think this is what's happening in our moment.
This is the moment we're in, a moment when men are going to have to figure out how to be good men and strong men again, which apparently is not happening when you read what women in Washington are saying about the guys they're looking for guys to date.
They can't say they can't find any masculine men.
These are conservative women looking for conservative men.
But this is going to be the, is going to bring about the next political era in this country.
The question of whether or not men can find themselves and whether or not women can find themselves again is going to determine our politics in the future.
Remember when the internet felt free?
Now we're constantly tracked.
Your internet service provider can see everything you browse, and in the U.S., they can legally sell that data to third parties.
Why Men and Women Differ00:15:11
That's why I use ExpressVPN.
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ExpressVPN works seamlessly across phones, tablets, TVs, and desktops, and you can have it running on up to 14 devices simultaneously, more than enough to keep everyone under your roof secure.
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And if you want to return to the good old days of online privacy and freedom, get ExpressVPN.
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I know how to spell Express, but Clavin, Claven, that's a hard one.
It's K-L-A, V-A-N.
No ease in Claven.
I just make it look this easy.
Chapter one, Woke, Thy Name is Woman.
So, as I say, while I was in Austria, this article came out in Compact Magazine, which was interesting in itself, that that was kind of the most important article of the week, and everybody was talking about it, and it came from an online magazine as opposed to, you know, the New Yorker or Atlantic or anything like that.
And as I say, it was called The Great Feminization.
You may remember Helen Andrews, I think she was on the show after she wrote the book, Boomers, very smart lady, you know, very crusty in a lot of ways, but also just sharp.
She's a person who says sharp things.
And she made this speech at NatCon, which is what the article was based on.
And she talked about this as an unprecedented movement, an unprecedented moment, as cut to.
There have been many societies that have been feminist to one degree or another, in which women have been queens and owned businesses and held positions of authority that commanded the respect of men.
But there has never been a society in which women hold as much political power as they do today.
Think of all of the parliaments that have ever existed, every legislature in every country in every century.
None of them has been, as ours is, one-third female.
The idea of a female chief of police would have seemed very strange even to many early feminists.
And yet today, the police department is led by a woman in the largest city in America and in the city in which we are now standing.
Law schools today are majority female.
Law firm associates are majority female.
Medical schools are majority female.
Women earn a majority of BAs.
And PhDs.
College faculty are majority female.
This is something that's kind of obvious, but it's overwhelming when you start to think about it.
All these places are majority female.
Now, some of you may have noticed this, that men and women are very different.
They're very different kinds of people.
In fact, they're the only different kinds of people there are.
There are only two kinds of people in the world.
One is men and one is women.
Everybody else is kind of aligned.
You know, you have more in common with a man your age from Japan than you do with a woman your age from America.
I mean, it's just if you're a man.
It is just the great divide in human history.
Every myth, every creation myth starts with the creation of man and woman as the most obvious thing.
No matter how hard, whether it's communists or communists, they always try to erase that difference.
And even capitalists, as I've said before, even capitalists don't like the priorities of women because they don't necessarily feed into profit and the competition that makes capitalism work.
So because men and women are different, if you feminize an industry, if it becomes majority feminine, the industry is going to change.
And that change is, according to Helen, is wokeness.
And the uprise of the woke comes along with the feminization of several industries.
So this is cut three.
If you want to put it in a single sentence, you could say that feminization equals wokeness.
Everything you think of as wokeness is simply an epiphenomenon of demographic feminization.
Think about all the things that wokeness means.
Valuing empathy over rationality, safety over risk, conformity and cohesion over competition and hierarchy.
All of these things are privileging the feminine over the masculine.
So if you have ever wondered why wokeness appeared out of nowhere when it did, that is my hypothesis, that all of the institutions that began admitting women in the 1970s eventually got enough women that they were able to reorient them.
Now, think about this for a minute, because again, this is Helen Andrews.
She makes a joke.
And the joke is, she says, because behind her are sitting all these guys in suits and ties, looking like they wish they were anywhere else.
They're just looking like, oh my God, Busseli, I can't believe.
I don't want to be associated with this.
You know, they're just absolutely, you can see them almost sweating.
And she makes a joke.
She says, now I'm going to say something controversial.
And everybody laughs.
But then she talks about the fact that nothing she has said is controversial.
It's not controversial to say that men and women are different.
It's not controversial.
It's simply been banned.
The thought, idea, the fact, the obvious fact, the most obvious fact in human life, the most important fact in human life, the most joyful and beautiful fact in human life that men and women are different has been banned.
But it's not controversial.
We all know it's true.
You know, as my son once said to me, if a scientific paper came out that was peer-reviewed and gone over a million times saying men and women were the same, it would have no effect because we all know that is not the case.
So the second thing she says is when a business becomes feminized, when it becomes majority feminine, it will start to take on some of those feminine traits.
That too is an obvious point.
Wouldn't that be the case, right?
If everybody in the room were eight feet tall, that would change the nature of the room.
If people are different and they're only two kinds of people, then that's going to change the nature of the business that they're in.
What's controversial, she says, is it's okay to notice these things.
And I'm not sure I agree with her about that.
They've tried to make it unokay, but they were forced into making it okay.
She says, okay to notice these things, but it's not allowed to, you're not allowed to notice them unless you say they're good.
So if you say, well, there's many more women in the legal industry now, isn't that wonderful?
Then you're allowed to say it.
But it becomes controversial when you say it's a bad thing.
And she explains why she thinks it's a bad thing.
That's cut four.
Feminization is not just an interesting new development that has had some pluses and minuses.
It's that feminization, in the case of many important institutions, is a bad thing.
In a few cases, it is so bad as to be, you know, to threaten the end of civilization.
The rule of law, for example, is a very important thing.
It's also very fragile.
It requires a deep commitment to objectivity and clear rules, even when those rules yield an outcome that is not nice.
I do not want judges who are more interested in context and relationships than in what the law says.
Now, the other thing she adds in her article, which she doesn't say in her speech, is that when feminine values take over, the purpose of the industry suddenly comes in second.
So in other words, as she was saying about the law, if you're worried about being nice, if you're worried about collegial relations, if you're worried about the fact, whether or not the facts are the important things or whether the feelings are the important things.
She cites the Brett Kavanaugh hearing, where men were saying, well, he may or may not have done something bad, but there's no facts.
There are no, literally no facts.
I mean, as Molly Hemingway pointed out, there were absolutely no, there was absolutely no evidence that he had ever met the woman who was accusing him.
And as Helen says, what the women were worried about is, yes, but she's crying, yes, but she's hurt, yes, but she's obviously very sincere, and therefore he's guilty.
And that was exactly what you read every morning in the New York Times, that he was obviously guilty because women had been disbelieved in the past, and therefore they were being disbelieved now.
And all of those things didn't matter to men who were saying, I'm not hearing any evidence at all.
That changes, not only changes the nature of the business, but it takes the telos of the business, the purpose of the business, and makes it second, which is what's happened, for instance, in news, in television news.
Now they're going to explain to us what we should believe.
They're going to tell us the news we should hear that will make us feel the things we should feel instead of the news.
That's the difference.
Now, the other thing she says is she talks about the fact that feminization lowers standards.
And let's take a listen to this, Cut5.
There certainly are many women who have the talent and the inclination to meet the old standards.
There are many women who are excellent judges.
I know many female journalists who are just as hard-nosed and uncompromising as any of their male peers.
There definitely are such women, but I am not sure that there are enough of them.
Because the question is not, can some women be excellent professors?
The question is, is it possible to have an academia that is majority female and is still as committed to and still respects the unhindered pursuit of unpopular truths as much as the old predominantly male academia did?
I believe the answer is no.
This is the question of scale.
Is something that could be good in the small scale, does it remain good in the large scale?
And that's what I'm going to talk about in the next chapter, because this thing, of all the subjects that haunt me as somebody who watches politics and cares very much about this country and cares very much about the politics of this country, the question of scale is the one that haunts me the most because I cannot solve it.
I have an idea how it can be solved.
And people, whenever I say things like this, people write in and say, well, you solve it this way, this way, this way.
And I think like, yeah, I thought of all those ways, but they actually don't work.
And I will explain why, but I'll talk about that in a minute.
Let me just finish this part about Helen Andrews and her speech about the feminization, the great feminization, by saying she actually has some practical solutions.
The solutions are not that women should be banned from any profession because that's not the way we want it to be.
I mean, these social movements always start out with good ideas, like giving women choices and opportunities and all that stuff.
And then they always get taken over by the left, at which point they become about, oh, men are toxic.
The family's toxic.
We've got to destroy the family.
We've got to get women out of the house, which is an old Marxist idea because those are the bastions of freedom.
The home is the bastion of freedom.
Motherhood is the center of human life and raising children and having a home is the center of human life and all those things you have to destroy if you want to replace human values with socialist values.
So what she says is simple.
She says, we've got to get rid of, we've got to take her thumb off the scale.
We've got to get rid of laws that require women to be represented in certain numbers.
So if you don't have enough women in your business, you can be sued.
And men and businesses have been sued and they have to pay up a lot of money simply because there aren't enough women there.
This is this idea that disparate outcomes must reflect bigotry, which is nonsense.
It's like saying there are too many tall people in our basketball team.
You know, I mean, it just may be that the people who came in, the people you know, did a better job.
And it may be that men do a better job at some things than women.
And it may just be that an over-feminized shop doesn't go as well.
So that's one thing.
If you just take that away and say, you know, hire the people you want, hire the people you like, hire the people who do the best job, that will solve part of the problem.
And the other thing she talks about, and this is something very dear to my heart, is the two income trap, that the fact that it is very, very difficult for a young couple to make enough money so that a mom can stay with her children without going back to work after even six months, which is just absolutely wrenching.
And some people have speculated, and I think it's a good speculation, that the reason women are having so few children is they cannot stand the trauma of leaving them behind.
I do not understand how women do that.
And twice, because sometimes I speak without thinking, that is like the flip side of my being a frank person, is that I sometimes speak without thinking.
Twice, I have walked in on women who had just had babies and found them back at work and have blurted out without thinking, what are you doing here?
And they have burst into tears.
And that shouldn't be.
I'm sorry, that shouldn't be.
When you have a baby, almost every woman wants to stay with that baby and raise that baby.
And, you know, it's a period, a season in a woman's life.
It doesn't last very long.
It lasts 10, 15 years before the children start to go off on their own, start to have things to do outside the house.
And then, you know, she wants to work and do other things.
But that season is cherished by most women and it is formative for all children.
And so I think that that is the thing, getting rid of the two income traps so women can do what they want to do instead of what they have to do.
So what she is talking about is a great failure in our politics.
The absolute, I mean, I've been an anti-feminist for years.
And again, it's not being anti-feminist, it's not being anti-women.
It's being pro-femininity.
It is being pro-the differences, viv la difference between men and women and wanting women to have the things that they find out sometimes too late that they actually want.
There was just a story about a very famous feminist in Britain who was talking about how she had spent all her money trying to find a man now that she's 50 or 60 and couldn't do it and had spent herself broke trying to do it.
And sometimes women find out this stuff too late because they agree, they believe what the culture is selling them.
But let me get back to this question of scale, which I think is the central question that we're struggling with as we struggle to break away from what the left has almost made us.
Divide Between Individuals and Society00:15:11
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go to helixsleep.com slash Clavin. Chapter two, Thumb on the Scale.
This problem of scale, and as I say, I was talking to while I was in Australia, I was talking to some very, very smart people about this, and it's something that just haunts me because it is not immediately apparent how this is solved.
It's a problem that people don't like to talk to, especially in the media, because the media uses it to their advantage.
The problem of scale is the difference between what happens to individuals and what happens to societies.
And the things that are often good for individuals are often bad for societies.
And that when you want to be, when you live in a free country, people will make choices that are bad for society.
And how do you respond to that?
How do you stop them from doing that when there are choices that are personal and may have nothing to do with you?
Now, one of the things about this that makes it confusing is the fact that it's always going to be, sometimes not even because of malice, it's always going to be represented, misrepresented by the news media.
Why?
Because certain things get clicks.
Sex gets clicks.
Violence gets clicks.
Hatred, perversion.
These things get clicks.
And so it is always in the interest of the news media to pretend that individual actions that get clicks are representative of something important, because otherwise they're just cheap people trying to get clicks, right?
Instead, they've got to say it's important.
So if you have some violent woman screaming that everybody who disagrees with her should be killed, that becomes an issue.
That becomes something where you have to say, oh, this is an issue that people want other people to be killed.
Well, do they?
Or is it just one person screaming in a country of 350 million people?
The best example of this was George Floyd.
There are 750,000 law officers in this country, 750,000.
If 1% of them are bad, and that would be a very low number for any profession, that's 70, what is it, guys?
Give me a hand here.
750, that would be 75, 7,000 people or 7.5,000 people, right?
They're all staring at me.
All these kids who look like they're brilliant, they're just staring at me because they can't do math either.
So 7.5, 7, so there's 7,000 bad cops in the country.
Bad things are going to happen.
That's not representative.
But because it was a white cop and a black guy who died, and yes, I have very strong questions about whether that was the cop's fault at all.
But let's say it was.
Let's pretend it was.
It's still an anomaly.
It doesn't happen very often at all.
It happens almost never.
And it happens much more rarely than engagement between police officers and people in black people.
And so they used that.
They used that to say this is representative of a movement of the systemic racism in our country, which was a lie.
It was just a lie.
And every study, even by liberals, showed that it was a lie.
So the news media is predisposed to misrepresent this problem.
And, you know, they do it with violence.
If conservatives gather and there's 500,000 conservatives and one of them at the end is wearing a Nazi hat, he's the story, right?
He is the story.
But if there are members of Congress who are Islamists, it's just why Michael Knowles, who usually can't speak his way out of a paper bag, that was why he was before a congressional committee talking about leftist violence and he made them look like fools because he brought the receipts.
Let's just listen to a little bit of Knowles talking to this committee.
It was great.
It's got six.
I looked into just a few recent examples that came to mind of prominent left-on-right violence.
The Covenant School massacre in Nashville, in which a trans-identifying shooter murdered Christian school children after outlining her ideological motivations.
According to authorities, there was no ideological motive there.
Go figure.
The Black Lives Matter riots, overtly leftist demonstrations that left dozens of people dead and over a billion dollars worth of property damage.
Likewise, those failed to show up on registers of left-wing political violence.
Even an attack by Antifa that targeted me personally, as well as conservative college students for our political views, appeared in official records and data sets as nothing more than obstructing law enforcement.
It turns out the left commits relatively little political violence when you don't count the political violence that the left commits.
Exactly.
And, you know, he did a good, that attack on him by Antifa, that was actually me.
But so, you know, I was dressed up in the whole Balaklava thing.
But if you're shocked that I would praise Knowles' performance because it was actually good, don't worry.
I'm going to pick on him later and we'll attack him later.
So this divide between what individuals do and what society does is something we have to pay attention to because it is the story.
But it also is, and this is what haunts me, it also is a legit conflict.
Gay people, good example.
I know a lot of gay people.
I'm an artist.
I've worked with gay people all my life.
Some of them great, some of them bad, just like everybody else, right?
I think it's a good thing that a gay person can live a life without being hunted and haunted and attacked and vilified.
And I think it is a good thing that they don't have to meet in bathrooms and places where they don't know the person that they're sleeping with.
I saw that.
I saw that happen, and it was bad.
AIDS happened in those days, not in these days, okay?
So whatever you think about gays, you don't have to like them.
You don't have to think it's a moral thing.
But the question is, how do you deal with the fact that an individual might be happier doing something that's not hurting anybody outside himself?
And the fact that if you live in a gay society, the male-female bond, which is the core of every society, it is the core of every society.
Marriage is at the heart of every society, gets pushed out of the center of the society.
The society cannot thrive in that way.
A woman cop may be a great cop.
I mean, Helen addressed this, but a feminized police department may be a terrible department.
I think Islam is a perfect example.
I've met many truly wonderful and pious Islamic people that I would trust with my life.
I have trusted when I was in Afghanistan.
I did trust Islamic people with my life and never thought about it twice.
But then that's why you get arguments like this from a very dishonest and sinister person, Zora Mandani.
This is what he said, cut seven.
I want to speak to the Muslim city worker, whether they teach in our schools or walk the beat for the NYPD.
New Yorkers who all make daily sacrifices on behalf of the city only to see their leaders spit in their face.
No, I haven't seen any leaders spit in their face.
I have seen police officers after 9-11 rush to protect Muslim communities.
But Zora Mandani is a lying piece of garbage, so we won't deal with that.
But the thing is, he's conjuring ideas of individuals, right?
So you have individuals in your mind, which gets rid of the question, fogs over the question is, is a Muslim majority a good thing?
Because when you have a Muslim majority or even close to a Muslim majority, really bad stuff starts to happen.
We see this in England right now, where people are being silenced because of what they see right in front of their eyes.
But we see it in Dearborn, Michigan, which if it's not a majority Muslim city, is getting very, very close.
So you have the call to prayer from the Musin, you know, is waking people up at 5.30 in the morning, which violates noise ordinances, but the Muslim mayor won't do anything about it.
We had the Muslim mayor on video telling a Christian pastor that he was not, he did not belong in the city and he would have a parade in the day that he left the city.
And you got rallies like this after October 7th.
This is a rally in Dearborn.
Because it's the United States government that provides the funds for all of the atrocities that we just heard about.
And this is why Imam Khomeini, who declared the International Day of Qurs, this is why he would say to pour all of your chants and all of your shouts upon the head of America.
Malcom X said, and I quote, we live in one of the rottenest countries that has ever existed on this earth.
It's not Genocide Joe that has to go.
It's the entire system that has to go.
Oh, wait, that was the Tucker Carlson clip.
Oh, no, no, no, that's the Islamist radical.
It's hard to tell the difference.
But anyway, the chant that you heard them saying was death to America.
Death to America.
That was that shouting you heard in the background.
And when Rashid Talib, who is the congresswoman of the Dearborn District, was asked to condemn that chant by Fox News, she said, I don't talk to Fox News.
She didn't talk to Fox News because she couldn't condemn the chant of death to America because it's what she feels.
And she is a congresswoman.
So individual Muslims, wonderful people, some of them wonderful people.
But you have this problem that you get when a philosophy, an outlook, a religion that is antithetical to the Western way of life becomes the majority philosophy.
These are really problems.
And I think, you know, what I've advocated for on this show, because this, you know, this is the most radical show on the internet.
I gotta say, you know, we did one of those friendly fires and I was teasing Matt Frat has come on, so now we have all these Catholics and I was making jokes about Catholics and then I was making jokes about Jews and all this stuff.
And I've been attacked all morning from this kind of prissy little right wing we're developing now, these prissy little Nazis who are like kind of Nancy guys who just gets, oh, he was making jokes about religion.
But this is the most radical show on the internet, which is hilarious since I'm 115 years old.
But still, there it is.
And what I've been advocating is that we have to embrace hierarchy, which doesn't mean a hierarchy of value or morals or personal niceness.
It means a hierarchy.
Hierarchy means a rule by the sacred.
It means the things that should be sacred to a society.
I have said that motherhood should be sacred.
When I was a kid, it was sacred.
Motherhood was the center of society to the point that some guys would complain about we're too nice to mothers.
Fathers are at the center of society.
These are things that should be sacred in our society and that they are different roles.
But each one is core to our society.
And the people who build and create and compete and make things better and make new things and do the work that has to be done with their hands, all of those people are center to society and not the criminals, not the people that the Democrats spend all their time worrying about.
The perverted, the criminal, you know, they're always worried about their rights.
And fine, we want to protect their rights, but not to the exclusion of keeping the people, the good people in the center.
This is the flip side, by the way, of all men are created equal.
That means if you're a bad guy, you made some bad choices because you were created equal.
You could have made good choices.
Now, what are the problems with the system?
There are two enemies to the system.
One is envy, because everybody wants to be at the center.
Everybody wants to be considered normal.
People have feelings.
They don't like the fact that you say, well, actually, we don't want your porn in our elementary schools.
I'm sorry, we don't want our porn in elementary schools, but we definitely don't want gay porn in our elementary schools.
So you have envy because people want to be at the center and they're not.
And you have genuine cruelty, which I think is more of a problem on the right.
I think the envy is the leftist engine, but that you can't expect people to live outside the center of society in this hierarchy if you're treating them like crap.
And I do not know if mankind is capable of loving hierarchy.
I do not know.
This is the thing that haunts me.
If people can't do it, if people can't embrace the fact that, yeah, leave gay people alone.
Let them have their lives, but do not put them at the center of society.
I don't know if people can get their heads around that duality.
I don't know at all.
And that's why finding out what good men are and what good men should look like is so central to building a new republic.
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Chapter three, freedom and manhood.
There is something developing among our youth, which I think is bad.
The Devil's Flagpole00:09:13
And it's not surprising to me that it is coming up with anti-Semitism, because I always tell you anti-Semitism is the devil's flagpole.
And the reason I attack it so much is not because of the anti-Semitism itself, but it almost always marks the place where evil is growing, almost always.
The real anti-Semitism.
I'm not talking about snobbish, you know, I don't want this guy in my club.
I'm talking about that hatred.
The Jews control everything and Israel is running the country, kind of nonsense stuff.
But it's not that.
It's the alienation from freedom.
So on the left, it is the Zoro Mamdani crowd, the socialist crowd.
And I've told you before that socialism is inherently authoritarian.
You cannot have socialism that's not authoritarian because your money is a reward for what you do with your time.
Your time is what your life is made of.
If you make the money and the government, the state, decides what to do with the money, the state is in control of your time and in control of your life.
There's a word for when you make the money, but somebody else spends it.
It's called slavery.
You know, when you do the work and the money goes to somebody else, that's called slavery.
And so when you make the money, it is your time.
It is your money.
You put a little bit in the kiddie to keep the roads flat and to keep the military fed, but that's about it.
You know, after that, we don't want the government taking 50% of anybody's money.
It's still stealing just because the government is doing it.
So in order to, the left has the problem.
The left is losing its faith in freedom because they're losing the argument, because their ideas don't work.
They never work.
And so they always get a press of build a wall to keep people in Berlin or censor people.
Here's Barack Obama just the other day.
Here's what he said about the press, cut nine.
Part of what we're going to have to do is to start experimenting with new forms of journalism and how do we use social media in ways that reaffirm facts, separate facts from opinion.
We want diversity of opinion.
We don't want diversity of facts.
That, I think, is one of the big tasks of social media.
By the way, it will require some government, I believe, some government regulatory constraints around some of these business models in a way that's consistent with the First Amendment.
You hear people applauding in a way that's consistent with the First Amendment, which says Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech or of the press.
So I'm not sure how you're going to square that circle, Barack, but hope or whatever you represent.
That's the left.
They've got to silence you because their ideas don't work.
But on the right, there is something that is equally dangerous, although we don't have the cultural power to push it forward, but it's rising.
And that is the idea that the Republic has failed, that liberalism, in the true sense of that word, not in the sense of leftism, liberalism has failed and it's time to move past freedom as an ideal.
And this is basically romanticism.
It is the idea that we're going to go back.
And this is when I said I was going to hit Knowles.
Knowles flirts with this stuff.
And I wish he would stop because he's wrong.
I mean, it is like giving up on liberalism, giving up on America is not the way forward.
Now, the reason this works is because it puts forward an idea of manhood that in some ways is natural.
And as you know, if you are a Christian, nature is not necessarily your friend, right?
There is the nature that is creation, which is your friend because it speaks of the glory of God.
And there is the nature that is just a system of mechanical connections, which is not necessarily your friend.
It is natural for men to want to sleep with lots of women.
But in Christianity, we have marriage because that actually is more moral than nature.
And so there is a certain way in which the idea of bringing back kings, which I think is Knowles' thing, or the idea of a strong man, fascism, you know, Hitler wasn't such a bad guy.
Mussolini had some great ideas, that kind of stuff that you hear going around on the right.
There is a way in which it appeals to man's nature in the same way when a woman, not my wife, walks by who's very beautiful, that appeals to my nature as well.
I don't live by nature.
I live by my lights, and my lights are guided by Christianity.
And that is why I think this idea of kings and vassals is a bad idea.
See, when you hear people talk about this, they always talk about it in this manly way, right?
Because they're appealing to your nature.
They say, yeah, Hitler had some good ideas, or they won't let us say it out loud, but we'll say it now, by golly, you know, that kind of thing.
Which is how the devil works.
The devil always promises you strength and gives you weakness, always every single time, right?
This drug is going to make you feel great.
Having a lot of sex is going to make you feel great, all that stuff.
It always turns you into a slave.
But the problem is, if you have a king, it's not going to be you.
If you have a strong man in charge, it's not going to be you.
You're going to be the guy saying, oh, yes, sir.
No, sir.
Okay, sir.
Thank you, sir.
I'll do whatever you say, sir.
That's who you're going to be.
That is who 99.9% of the male population is going to be.
Okay, they're going to be the guy who takes the orders, not the strongman, not the king, who gives the orders.
There's only one man.
There's only one man in a monarchy.
There's only one man in a fascist state, right?
The whole point of the Republic is that it makes every man a king.
It makes any man as good as any other man.
That's the republic I grew up in, and that's why I have this kind of brash attitude, why people screaming at me all the time doesn't bother me in the least.
It's why I will talk to any, I will say anything to anybody.
I worked in Hollywood.
I told some of the most powerful producers in the world what they could do with their stupid ideas.
I have done this all my life.
And it is the flip side of the fact that I can't keep my mouth shut is the good side of that, is that I won't keep my mouth shut because I am a republic, small R, a Republican man.
I'm a man of a republic who was taught that the manhood comes from me, that I am the king of my life.
You know, there's this wonderful old movie.
It's not a great movie, but it's John Wayne's last movie, which makes it a great movie, in which Wayne is a dying, he's an old, old man, he's a dying gunfighter.
And Ron Howard is the boy who sort of admires him.
And there's this famous exchange where Ron Howard asks him how he became a gunfighter.
This is cut 10.
How'd you ever kill so many men?
Lived most of my life in the wild country, and you set a code of laws to live by.
What laws?
I won't be wronged.
I won't be insulted.
I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.
That law is basically the golden rule enforced by the man's courage.
A Republican man, the small R Republican man, is a true man because he is the power within every man to make the golden rule culture come to life, right?
When George Washington hands over his swords to the civilians, he makes freedom alive.
He instantiates freedom.
He gives it a name, the name of the United States of America.
When you live by those laws, I don't treat people badly.
I won't be treated badly.
But you have to do the first one, right?
It's no good just doing the second one.
I won't be treated badly.
So I treat people well, so I will be treated well.
You instantiate, you bring to life the golden rule culture in which women can live.
That is the only culture in which women can live with dignity and respect.
Real men don't need kings.
They only need one king.
And that's the subject of the final chapter.
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Christ Is King Imposed00:07:48
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Final chapter, Christ the King.
Last Sunday was the feast of Christ the King in my church, and I guess the Roman Catholic church, I'm an Anglican Catholic.
And my priest gave a sermon so good, I just told him when I was going out the door, I told him I was going to plagiarize it.
Some of this comes from him.
I won't name him because he's got enough trouble without my being associated with me.
But the thing is, Christ the King is a modern feast.
It's actually not made that long ago, and it celebrates the kingship of Christ's dominion over all things.
And it was instituted in 1925 in the wake of World War I, which was the beginning of the end of Europe.
Basically, the two world wars are one war that marked the end of Europe for no reason other than people just got tired of being successful and beautiful and creating wonderful things.
They decided, because we're fallen race, they decided they would destroy the country over nothing.
In finally, a great explosion of anti-Semitic Jew murder, because that is, as I keep saying, the shadow side of Christianity.
It's not the shadow side of Christ.
It's the shadow side of men whose natural instincts, who feel their natural instincts have been suppressed and who feel guilty about the fact that we all killed Christ.
That's what I was saying about the Holocaust.
When I said the Holocaust was the crucifixion in IMAX, that was not a spiritual statement.
Obviously, the crucifixion is the worst thing that ever happened ever because it's the death of God.
It's the murder of God.
When I said it was on IMAX, what I meant is it was like on a big screen.
And it was the fact that that Jew hatred, you know, what is that line that Douglas Murray is always quoting from Life and Fate?
Tell me what you blame the Jews for and I'll tell you what you're guilty of, right?
When people accuse the Jews of what they're guilty of, and when they accuse them of deicide, of killing God, they know that we all killed God, all men killed God, and they're accusing them of that.
And that's what I meant by the Holocaust being the crucifixion in IMAX.
So this was supposed to remind people after World War I, people started to, in the chaos, it was just, we didn't have it the same way.
In Europe, it was just the most destructive thing that ever hit.
It just wiped out a generation of men.
There's no town in England that doesn't have a little monument to the dead of World War I. People started to look for certainty instead of freedom, and they started to turn to communism on the left and fascism on the right and toward national socialism, which is a little bit of both.
It's actually a mixture of both.
It's getting the real evil in.
You know, he's getting, we take the evil of communism and we mix it with the evil of fascism, and you get national socialism, and there you are.
And they were trying, the Pope was trying to move people away from this by reminding them, by reminding them that These systems essentially make the state or a strong man the ruler over your life, and there should only be one ruler over your life.
Now, my priest said a brilliant thing.
Instead of the phrase Christ is king, which has been used, is a true statement.
As I've said again and again, even though they lie about it online all the time, they keep saying, I didn't say this, but I did from the very beginning.
I said, Christ is king, is a true statement, but it's being used by anti-Semites as a divisive and hateful statement.
And that's a terrible thing.
It's worse to you.
It's like burning a cross on someone's lawn.
That's a desecration of the cross.
It doesn't mean that a cross is bigoted.
It means you are bigoted.
You're using the cross as your spokesman instead of the spokesman of the person who died on the cross.
But my priest said, instead of the phrase, Christ the king, he preferred the statement, no king but Christ.
And when I heard that, I knew it was a brilliant thing to say, but I didn't quite think about it, and I thought about it, and now this is me talking, not him.
But what I felt was so brilliant about that is Christ is king is an imposition of belief on someone else who may not share your belief, which is allowable in a free country, in a country that has freedom of religion.
But no king but Christ is a declaration that you will bend the knee to no one but Jesus Christ.
That is a different thing.
That is a different thing because that makes you in charge of your life and you are giving your life willingly over to Christ.
And that assumes, though, that you have the courage to stand your ground.
What is it that Jesus says every 10 minutes in the Gospels?
What is it that the angels say every time they visit earth?
Be not afraid.
There is no cowardice in Christianity.
Even when threats come against you, you say the same thing you were going to say before.
Even when the government turns against you, which is a terrible experience, you say the same thing that you're going to say before.
Even when the Nancy boy Jew haters come swarm your feed with bots, you're going to say the same thing that you said before if you know in your heart that it is the truth.
There is no cowardice in Christ.
It is the voice of John Wayne saying, this is where I stand.
I will not be moved.
I don't try to move other people and I will not be moved myself.
The reason this matters is that to be free, you have to solve the problem of scale.
How a person can be good individually, but his ideas can be destructive in society.
And the problem of scale, as far as I can see, and maybe somebody who's more of a policy person can figure out something more practical, I believe that the only solution to the problem of scale is Christly love.
You saw this with Charlie Kirk, who was very opposed to homosexuality, very open about it, but had gay people on his staff, treated them with respect, treated gay people with respect when he talked to them in his meetings and his gatherings.
But it doesn't mean that there's no distinction between a gay relationship and a male-female relationship.
Love is love is a bumper sticker for idiots.
I mean, there's obviously a difference, and there's obviously one kind of relationship that is at the center of the hierarchy, which again is not a question of personal value hierarchy.
It's a question of what is sacred to a society.
I can greet in friendship and respect and love all of the people who make and create at the edges of the social hierarchy.
I am one of them.
Artists should be at the edges of the social hierarchy because it is not art.
Art can be sacred once it's done, but the artist is not sacred.
This is a mistake that the Romantics made.
They thought the artists were like prophets.
An artist can be like a prophet, but he's not what's sacred.
His work is what is sacred.
I would put, you know, I have 10 mothers and 10 soldiers.
I can build a society.
That's all I need.
All I need is men who do the work of men and women who do the work of women.
That's all I need.
And I can build a society.
You know, mothers, obviously, especially, because people can grow their own food.
People can build their own homes.
They can govern themselves.
You know, they will govern themselves.
They can make their own music.
But there's one thing they can't do.
They can't create themselves.
They can't nurture themselves.
They can't teach themselves how to be a man or a woman.
Only parents can do that.
And with 10 mothers and 10 soldiers to marry them, I can make a society.
You know, this is the thing that I look to as we go forward through this transition period, which is a period like all transition periods, of great danger.
This is a society.
We need a society of free men and beloved women.
That's where manhood lies.
That's where womanhood finds its dignity.
That and that alone is where freedom lives.
It is not for me to force you to believe that Christ is king, though I believe it with all my heart.
But it is for me to say, as a man and as a small R Republican man, no king but Christ.
Prize Picks Simplify Fantasy00:03:48
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Ask anything you like, and I'll answer anything we like.
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All right, this one is from Alona.
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We're going to win at every level.
We're going to win economically.
Winning with Novels00:15:27
We're going to win with the economy.
We're going to win with military.
We're going to win with health care and for our veterans.
We're gonna win with every single facet.
Zip-ba-do-doo-dah, zip-ba-dee-ay.
My, oh my, what a wonderful day.
We're going to win so much, you may even get tired of winning.
Yay!
You'll say, please, please, it's too much winning.
We can't take it anymore.
I feel pretty.
Oh, so pretty.
I feel pretty and witty and gay.
We have to keep winning.
We have to win more.
I'm going to win more.
All right, admit it.
You thought I forgot, right?
All right, the second letter is from Hazel.
My husband is a longtime listener, subscriber, and fan.
However, I am not.
After 27 years of marriage, I'm on the verge of seeking a divorce.
We're what some would consider old-fashioned people.
My husband works, and I stayed home.
As we have gotten older and transitioned into different roles of life, I feel that my role and identity as a mother and wife has changed.
My husband thinks that my way of thinking is feminist because I would like to go back to school, get a job, be more active outside the home.
He thinks that I'm not adhering to my wife and motherly duties.
There are other issues in the marriage.
There's a lack of big lack of intimacy because I must feel comfortable and loved in order to have sex.
All I'm asking for is that we go to therapy together, and all I get from him is that I need to change myself.
He is not going to be changed by anyone.
So I can't tell your husband what to think or do.
I can tell you what I did and how I felt about this.
I felt very strongly that at some point, as I said before, motherhood is a season in a woman's life and that I want my wife to be fulfilled and I want her to be happy and her happiness as the Bible says it should be is like unto my own.
And her happiness is my happiness.
And there have been times when I've had to make decisions for the good of both of us that didn't make her unhappy, but certainly that even though taking care of me, I'll be bluntly honest, is a full-time job.
I thought if you know, if she wants to go on and do other things, and she did, that she should do that.
And I wanted her to.
She's a smart, talented woman.
And I wanted to be able to afford to put her through school and afford to set up that business.
And those are all things that I think are part of being a husband.
I mean, it's not, you know, it is not giving your wife everything she wants, but I think it's giving her everything she needs to live a fulfilled, happy life.
Remember, Jesus told his followers that among the Gentiles, leaders lorded over you, but I want you to be servant leaders.
And so as a leader, as a leader of a family, you're there to help each person become the person they were meant to be, even when they don't want to, which is not always as easy as it sounds.
So that's where I stand on this.
I also think you should have sex with your husband.
I think this stuff about how you have to feel comfortable and loved and all that stuff.
No, that's also not in the Bible.
It says that you owe you have a duty to give your husband sex and he has a duty to give it to you.
This is something that you guys should get over because it only makes things worse.
It actually makes the problem worse.
You should have intimacy and you should have love and you should have kindness.
And that way you will find the things that you should do for one another by depriving your husband of sex just because you're unhappy is not the way to go.
So you're both, in my opinion, you can both do some changing.
We're going into Member Block, and we will let you watch Member Block today because Steve Deese is coming on to talk about Nefarious, which we're releasing here on Daily Wire.
It's been released before, but we are going to bring it back on the Daily Wire as it deserves, a picture I really liked.
And that's no reason for you not to become a member because next time it's going to be just plunge.
You're just going to be plunged into a clavenless darker than your wildest imagination.
So become a member today.
Go to dailywire.com slash subscribe and use code claven at checkout for two months free on all annual plans.
And now all of us will go as if members into member block.
All right.
This is member block, but we're letting everybody in because we want everybody to get to talk with me to Steve Deese.
He is, as I'm sure you know, a host of the Steve Dees show over our pals at the Blaze.
And he is the author of 13 books, four of which were bestsellers, including the 2016 novel A Nefarious Plot, which served as the inspiration for the movie Nefarious, which is now going to be on our website on Daily Wire Plus.
I think you have to be a member to watch, but you should watch.
Steve, it's really good to talk to you.
How are you doing?
I'm well, man.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate it.
I appreciate the kind words for the movie.
Thank you.
Well, I said that off camera.
I want to say it on camera.
I really like this movie a lot.
I think there's so much that comes out of A, the Christian space, and B, there hardly is a conservative film space that's just not creative.
It's just not good.
And this was really inventive.
And it's basically a two-hander, which is so hard to do, but it has been done well a couple of times on film.
And it worked because of the twists in the plot.
It worked because of the way the two characters interacted.
And it was really good.
I just thought, as I was watching it, I was just thinking, hey, wait a minute.
I actually am watching something that's well done.
I don't know how to deal with that.
So you were writing novels before?
Is that right?
This was actually the very first novel.
I'd only written nonfiction political stuff.
So this was the very first novel I'd ever written.
I got inspired to write it on my very first trip to Washington, D.C., because there's no better place to be inspired to write about a demonic takeover of America than watching the D.C.
Yes, yes, I figured.
And I'm there to do some publicity, and I jump in the shower.
I'm about to go do my now coworker, Mark Levin Show.
And this little voice in my head said, this book is dedicated to all the useful idiots out there, especially those of you who had no idea you were being used all this time for you proved to be the most useful of idiots of them all, nefarious.
I remember thinking at the time, that is a very strange thing to pop into your head in the shower, you know?
And so I get back after dinner and some media appearances, and I'm just sitting in my room, and I want to make sure I don't become the wrong kind of honeypot headline in Washington, D.C.
So I'm just going to be a good boy and stay there.
And I sit down on my keyboard and I just start playing around with this thing that came into my head in the shower.
And I wrote what eventually ended up becoming about 90% of the introduction of the book that evening.
I called a couple of theology friends of mine from different camps, one more in a cessationist reformed camp, one in a more charismatic Pentecostal camp, because I specifically wanted to get a broad base of opinion on what I had written.
And they both, I just read it out loud to them without giving them any kind of a lead up at all.
They were absolutely goo-goo for it.
And I just kept writing it.
And it ended up being the book.
And it was a modest success.
I had a very small platform at the time.
And I kind of thought the book was kind of dead.
And then one day I get a call from a guy that I did not yet know, who I work with now named Glenn Beck.
And he said, hey, a mutual friend gave me your book.
And it blew my mind.
And I'd love to have you on my show.
And of course, I said I'm not really interested in having 10 million listeners hear about my book.
So I turned him down.
Actually, it was on the very next day for an entire hour.
Quit bothering me, Glenn, right?
Yes, yes.
I cleared my schedule immediately.
And then listing that day in Burbank, California was a group of producers who had just written the breakthrough hit for Pure Flicks, God's Not Dead.
And they wanted to develop their own production company and try to maybe do, shall we say, more mature subject matter.
And they were getting ready to start pre-production for Abby Johnson's Unplanned.
And they always wanted to do something in the spiritual warfare aspect of horror and thriller, but it's kind of hard to find something in the Christian space that will fit that niche and not glorify evil at the same time.
And they heard me talking about this book and they went out and got it on Kindle, Andrew, and they read it that day.
They called me that night, or they texted me that night after I put the kids to bed.
And I thought it was a Nigerian print scam.
So I deleted the text.
I thought, there's no way this is true.
And it turned out to be true.
And then, you know, after the, after Abby's run, and then we had COVID, and then we began production of the film in the summer of 2020.
And now here we are.
You know, it's an amazing story, but in some ways, it's not an amazing story because, you know, people write to me all the time, you know, how do I break into the movie business?
And the fact is, I don't know because I was dragged into the movie business from writing books.
And I got the same kind of call.
One day I just picked up a phone call.
There was a guy I'd never heard of before who said he was my Hollywood agent, just sold my book for like a shower of gold.
I was like, okay, you know, just send me the gold.
I'll be fine.
So now, was the book published by a mainstream publisher or was it just we published it via Post Hill Press, which is in New York City and Nashville, Tennessee, where you guys are.
And the film, I will tell you, the making of this, well, first of all, the movie, the book is based off of C.S. Lewis's screw tape letters.
I wrote it to be kind of an homage sequel to it.
And so you obviously cannot make a movie with an hour and a half rant by a demon.
That's not a movie, right?
So we had a movie character, but we needed as the MacGuffin.
What's the plot device to drive this story?
And so we decided we were going to actually make the movie the prequel to the book.
The movie was going to tell the story of where this demonic manuscript about the destruction of America actually came from.
And that's the story that people see when they watch Nefarious.
And were you involved in the filmmaking process or did they do what they often do with novelists?
I was actually the executive producer of the film.
So I raised the money for it.
I fought the labor unions to get it made in Oklahoma.
I guess I didn't realize I was going to have to do that in a right-to-work state, but I guess we did.
The amount of spiritual resistance, Andrew, that we had to this film was crazy.
Yeah.
But here's the thing.
We also saw God open up doors that we just could have never opened up on our own.
I can tell you a quick little story if you don't mind about that.
So when we got done with the filming of the movie, and that's a whole tale that we even got this movie filmed in the first place.
Well, the way the Oklahoma Film Credit works is everything you do in Oklahoma is eligible.
So, I mean, we're ordering Styrofoam Cubs from Oklahoma.
We're doing everything in Oklahoma.
Okay.
And we're trying to find an editor in Oklahoma, but there's one guy that, and he had been nominated for an Oscar, but it was for a documentary.
He'd never done a feature linked film.
So we thought, let's give this guy a shot.
And when we gave him our assembly cut, for people that don't know, that's the totality of all the footage that we filmed.
And he is to now give us, you know, a rough cut.
And the directors wanted to screen it before they let me screen it.
And they're like, this is terrible, but they didn't want to tell me.
And so one day I'm doing my show and I get an email from a guy named Brian Jeremiah Smith.
And he says, you don't know me at all.
Love your show.
Love the nefarious plot.
I've been waiting for this movie.
I'm on indefinite paid leave at Netflix.
I was their top editor, but they wanted to fire me because I'm the only one that wouldn't take the jab.
And then the Supreme Court overturned the mandate and they don't know what to do with me now.
So they just put me on indefinite paid leave.
Here's my resume.
If I can help you guys at all, let me know.
But you're probably too far along in post-production.
So I probably missed my window.
And so I just sent it off to our directors and said, hey, you know, maybe for your next project, this guy would work.
And they get back to me right away.
I'm like, funny, you should mention this.
We were trying to figure out how to tell you this movie is awful.
We don't know what to do with it.
And we need a better editor.
And so we're going to look this guy up.
So they do.
And this guy's resume.
He worked on Get Out.
He worked on The Haunting of Hill House, which is one of the top productions Netflix has ever done.
He was actually assigned to do the editing for The Fall of the House of Usher.
And they took him off of that because he wouldn't have took the jab.
So this guy's way beyond our budget, way beyond what we can afford.
But he says to us, you know, you know, I'm getting paid from Netflix right now.
So why don't we just do this?
You guys pay me what you can, and we'll just let Netflix pay me to edit your movie.
So we said, okay.
That's amazing.
And I mean, we had a guy that has so many credits in the horror thriller genre.
We didn't even know this guy existed.
And we got him to save our movie.
He came in like Mariana Rivera, man, in the bottom of the ninth.
Bases are loaded.
Nobody's out.
And we have to strike out the side.
We can't even have a sack fly.
And he did the thing and he saved our movie.
And it was just a door God opened.
And Netflix actually paid for him to edit our film for us.
And people are probably surprised that he didn't have to film, you didn't have to refilm.
But like what happens in the editing booth is kind of magic.
I mean, it's just they save everything.
I mean, he took B-roll test shots.
Yeah.
And he was able to, because one of the things you make a movie like this is does it become monotonous?
Just these two guys most of the time.
And so what are the devices that break the monotony up?
And he found shots that we just weren't even planning on using.
They were test shots.
He refashioned them, recommissioned them.
There's one that he used like three times in the movie.
He just kept flipping angles.
So you think it's a different shot every time, just as a transition.
Just those little deft touches that just absolutely blew our minds.
That's amazing.
And the thing that the thing that that is the thing that makes the film work.
What makes the film work is when you have only essentially two characters, it's the twists and turns in their relationship that keep you going.
And that really did work for me.
Do you still write novels?
I've written a couple.
Yes.
I wrote a sequel book to a nefarious plot called A Nefarious Carol, which we are hoping to turn that into a film here as well.
I hope to have more news on that maybe next year in 2026.
I've done a whole bunch of children's books, you know, some funny, some serious, you know, in America's Christian Heritage.
We did one last year, Richie Meets the Rainbow, to Pan Pride Month that I'm particularly fond of because we actually became Andrew a certified LGBTQ bestseller.
Really?
Yeah, we subversively tried to infiltrate their ranks and it worked.
So that was kind of cool.
That's very cool.
I mean, I don't know how many guys can say they made a executive produced a Christian movie and they are a certified LGBTQ bestseller, but I'm on that very short list.
Very short list.
I have to say, I'm out of time, but I just have to say, God bless Glenn Beck for reading fiction.
He is among the only conservatives who actually likes fiction and reads it and talks about it.
And I always love when I go on a show and I have a novel, at least he knows what I'm talking about and why I'm talking about it.
It's just a great thing.
And I'm not surprised that he was the lynchman.
Steve Deese, you can find with the Steve Dee show over with our pals at The Blaze.
It's great to talk to you.
And I hope it does great business on Daily Wire as it has done before.
I appreciate it, brother.
God bless.
Thank you.
All right.
Talk to you again.
All right.
That's it.
The show is over.
It's over.
I can't do anything else for you.
That's it.
It's like a trapdoor opening, plunging you into clavenless darkness.
But I'm not going away again.
I will be back.
I'm doing, as I said before, I will be doing a signing tomorrow, Saturday in Tennessee, outside of Nashville at the Barnes ⁇ Noble Cool Springs, Mallory Lane in Brentwood, Tennessee.
I hope you will come by and say hello.
We will be doing a little bit of a talk and then signing books.
And possibly, if there's anybody left after the Clavenless Darkness, I'll be back next week with the Andrew Claven Show.