Megan Basham’s Shepherds for Sale hit the New York Times bestseller list in August 2024, though buried on a combined chart despite strong sales, as her colonoscopy revealed an advanced-stage tumor—initially feared stage four—after months of unexplained digestive issues. Treatment from January to June 2024 cleared margins but left recurrence risks, deepening her reliance on prayer and James 5:14-15 rituals like oil anointing. The battle reshaped her perspective on faith, mortality, and cultural shifts, including pastors’ evolving stances, while her upcoming novel The Vesalius Club—a dark historical thriller about 18th-century medical ethics—debuts via Ark Press, founded by Tony Daniel after her nonfiction was canceled. Basham’s journey underscores faith’s resilience amid life’s fragility and the blurred lines between conviction and opportunism in public discourse. [Automatically generated summary]
Hey everyone, it's Andrew Claven with this week's interview with the wonderful Megan Basham.
It has been too long since we have had Megan on the show.
She's obviously a daily wire writer and she's one I admire immensely for her talent, but also for her integrity and her faith.
Her New York Times best-selling book, Shepherds for Sale, is an indictment of evangelical churches that have been taken over and corrupted by the left.
It's a book that had one contract canceled because it offended people in high places, but it was picked up again by Broadside Books, an imprint of HarperCollins, as is my publisher, Zondervan.
And you'll notice that one thing I didn't say was that the book had a contract canceled, even though Megan offered to change it.
And I didn't say that because that never happened.
She had the rock solid integrity and courage to stand up, even to have a book contract canceled if something has happened to me.
It's a horrible, horrible experience.
It's like going through a trapdoor.
But that kind of integrity is far rarer than you think.
And she and her faith and her courage have all been tested recently in a battle with cancer.
And as with all of us dealing with the things we're dealing with now, it's being tested again.
So I wanted to talk to her about all that.
Megan, it is great to see you.
It's been way too long.
It has been.
It's so good to be here between cancer and all the expanding we've been doing at Daily Wire.
I haven't been here in a while and I'm excited to be back.
It is nice to see you again.
And so we'll start out on a lighthearted note.
Let's talk about this cancer.
Right.
I mean, you came to faith under difficult circumstances.
You've written about this.
You went down a bad path.
You paid the price and you were lifted up by our Lord.
And you've taken on a big opponent, the church, and you've gotten on the bestseller list.
And then you get this diagnosis.
What, I mean, maybe it's a stupid question, but what is that experience like?
Yeah, it was a roller coaster ride in 2024.
So, you know, I went from, I think it was mid-August, I got the call from my editor.
You know, you made the New York Times bestseller list and there was big celebration there, even though they slided me a little bit, Andrew.
I'm just going to tell you, because my agent was looking at the sales numbers and going, you should be at number two or three on the hardcover list.
They didn't put me on the hardcover list.
They put me on the combined list, which was electronic and hardcover.
So I'd be a little further down, but I still made it.
Yeah, they couldn't deny you.
Yeah.
And then flash forward to, you know, I've been having some digestive problems and I knew that I had issues and had just sort of fought with doctors for a while because of my age.
I specifically asked, could this be cancer?
Like way back in March of 2024, I had been to the emergency room with terrible bowel cramping.
And I asked them in the emergency room, they did a CT scan, could this be cancer?
Because my grandmother died of cancer.
My aunt died of cancer.
So I've always been very aware of cancer.
And they said, no, no, we don't see anything on the CT that indicates that.
So, you know, flash forward to Thanksgiving last year.
And I kept pushing for the colonoscopy.
And they're like, well, you know, at this point, it'll be your birthday and then you can have a colonoscopy.
And I was like, is there any way to move that up?
And they're like, we don't see what you're describing wouldn't trigger, you know, moving it.
So anyway, God knew all that was going on.
And so when I finally did get the colonoscopy, I woke up, you know, out of that sort of haze to hear the doctor saying, yeah, we found a large tumor.
Not only do we think it's cancer, we think it's advanced.
So, you know, then you, this was literally the day before Thanksgiving.
And in God's providence, some friends were with us for Thanksgiving who had been through a major cancer battle themselves.
Dear friends of ours, we've known them since we got, my husband and I got married.
They were the gentleman and this couple, they were roommates before we got married.
And he had been through Ewing sarcoma, I think stage three Ewing sarcoma, which is very rare for adults.
And they just held my hand through the whole weekend saying, here's what's going to happen.
This is what you need to do now.
Get registered with this, make these calls.
They were making calls going, we're going to find you, you know, the best oncologist in this area.
So, I mean, those are probably the hardest days I've ever faced in my life as we were waiting to find out when they say advanced, how advanced.
And in the back of my mind, I had a friend who I had lost the year before from stage four colon cancer.
Exact same thing.
Yeah, it's getting common with younger people.
It is.
She was only 42 years old, mom of three little babies.
And so, you know, my friend Ashley was in my mind and it was just more sleepless nights than I've ever had.
And I can tell you what I did.
I've always been a John MacArthur girl and I have never relied on that ministry, grace to you, more than I have in those few days between, because of course it was Thanksgiving, right?
You're like, now I have to wait like a week to talk to anybody.
So I would put John MacArthur's messages on when I was going to sleep to try to get some sleep and just listen to them as I was trying to fall asleep.
And so, you know, when we did finally get to meet with the doctor, they said it is stage three, caught all the scans.
And there's a big difference between stage three and stage four.
Like, you know, I was late stage three.
So they're going, you, you know, you're 60% chance that we can treat this and cure it.
If you get into stage four, which I was close to, you're now at a 15% view.
So you just fall off a cliff.
So those were really dark days.
And then, you know, some reprieve when you find out, okay, it's late stage three, but it's stage three.
So that's good.
We're not quite stage four yet.
And then you just go through the fight of, okay, so now we're going to do chemo radiation and chemo and surgery.
And suddenly, like the psalms meant more to me than they have ever meant in my life.
And things that I didn't understand in scripture before, I suddenly got like there's, I can't remember which psalm it is in, but I think it was a psalm by David where he said, I said in my alarm, every man is a liar.
And I suddenly felt that with doctors because they would say conflicting things to me.
I didn't trust them.
And I was going in my alarm, I feel that all of you are liars and I trust nobody.
And so I really got these things in a new way and, you know, just kind of did the King Hezekiah thing for weeks where I just had my face to the wall and was in prayer constantly and suddenly reading.
I mean, and people were so great.
People sent me, you know, books of the Puritans and so many wonderful Bible studies.
And my friend Rosaria Butterfield drove me down a Vitamix because she felt that I needed to work on my health.
And so, you know, it was just kind of all of that, that processing and pleading with the Lord for my life.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, I was meanwhile pleading with the Lord for your life.
And I kind of want to ask you about that because I'm sure all your friends were praying.
I'm sure your family was praying.
You're praying.
And we kind of hear nowadays these thoughts and prayers.
What a waste of time.
You know, what a foolish thing to do.
How do you feel about that?
I mean, how did you feel about it at the time when you didn't know what the result would be?
I mean, I can tell you that that's where the rubber meets the road on your belief in prayer.
And I mean, I'm a Calvinist.
I've always been kind of a, you know, not a very demonstrative Christian in church.
I'm not a hands-up kind of girl.
But when this happened, I definitely my belief in prayer came to the fore because suddenly I was much more charismatic than I've ever been.
You know, I, I, the first thing I did was James 5.
I called the elders and I'm like, I mean, it was literally like probably the first call I made was, Can I come to the church?
And I want the elders to pray over me because, you know, it says in James 5, if any of you is sick, call the elders and have be anointed with oil.
I have never in my life considered being anointed with oil, but you know, that Sunday when we went up, when we went to church and I saw one of the elders, you know, I kind of sheepishly went up and started to explain my situation.
And then I said, Well, I would like the elders to pray over me.
And I don't know if James 5 is supposed to be a literal interpretation.
And he said, Well, we have actually, you know, physically anointed with oil.
I'm like, great, I want that.
I want the physical anointing with oil package.
I don't want to leave, you know, anything out.
So we did that.
We went to the chapel and had the elders pray over me and anoint me with oil.
And we did that.
So, you know, for me, it really strengthened my belief in prayer.
You know, I would say, I mean, I've always been a prayerful person, but I don't know that I had the faith that, you know, God was listening to those prayers and answering those prayers in the same way I did when I was pleading for my life when I was saying, Okay, Lord, I know that you can give me a reprieve here.
I know that there are models in scripture like Hezekiah, where you will say, Okay, you know, you were under a death sentence and I'm going to pull that back.
And so that's what I was asking for.
So, you know, I don't know.
I didn't really have any doubts and thoughts and prayers in that moment.
I, in fact, suddenly was like, everyone, pray over me.
If you want to pray over me, please feel free.
Yeah, really, really.
You know, and I remember you said at one point something like, you're not like Paul who says it doesn't matter whether I stay or go.
You want to stay, which I thought was, I thought was great.
I mean, I thought like, you know, pretending that you're, you know, pious at some higher level is to me just an absolute waste of time since God knows exactly where you are.
And I think, you know, you might as well talk honestly with him.
So at this point, the treatment has been good, right?
You're in a good place.
I mean, and but yeah.
Yeah.
So I, um, after going through all the treatment, you know, started in January, uh, finished on June 30th.
Um, and after that, we got clean margins.
So that's what you want when you go into surgery.
They, you know, you want to see that there's no cancer beyond where they've cut out.
Um, and so I was responsive to treatment, not as much as we would have liked.
I didn't have a complete response.
And they still had a positive lymph node, which, if you know, cancer, you know, that puts you at a higher risk.
And I had some nerve and blood vessel invasion, and that puts you at a higher risk.
So, you know, we're remaining prayerful because right now I have no evidence of disease and we're so incredibly thankful for that and praising God for that.
But, you know, I kind of looked at it this way that I went, it's like the thorn in the side.
I'm like, I'm not going to get just a clean escape where I forget about this thing.
It's going to stay with me and I'm going to be a little hobbled.
And that's going to require me to continue in prayer and leaning on the Lord because it's still there, knowing, okay, I have a right higher risk of recurrence.
So it keeps me conscious of my mortality.
Let's put it that way.
Well, this way, I wanted to ask you that because I mean, at my age, you are, you get conscious, you get real conscious of your mortality.
You know, that like any, you know, every Christmas could be your last.
You understand it.
And you're just, you know, that there's no, there's no reprieve because you're coming down.
That's straight away, you know, and it's like, so I'm wondering, someone your age, you know, what effect is that?
I know the effect it has on me.
It has good and bad effects.
It makes me, you know, a little bit more cautious than I've ever been.
But at the same time, it makes me very appreciative of every single second.
I'm wondering the effect it has on you.
Yeah, probably the same.
You know, it's strange.
I'll be totally fine and almost kind of forget about it.
And then my husband and I were in California for John MacArthur's Memorial.
And maybe it's because of that that it just came into my mind in a stronger way.
But like we were shopping and suddenly I almost had like, I'm not a panic person, like what felt like a panic attack in the middle of Nordstrom rack.
You know, I just suddenly went, I'm shopping and a month from now, I could get my next scan and they could be told, oh, you're stage four.
And I will spend, you know, the remaining months of my life fighting that.
So those things come into your head.
And that's part of what keeps you preaching to yourself rather than listening to yourself.
And that's really the only way I can approach it because I am, as my surgical oncologist would put it, kind of a high anxiety patient.
So I can morbidly obsess on this easily.
And the only way I have felt to deal with that really is to, okay, I'm going to have to memorize passages.
And when it starts, I just have to start reciting them or I have to put on a message and start listening to it because I transparently can spiral pretty quickly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I love it when doctors say that.
You're the worrying sort.
Like if I'm talking to a doctor, yes.
If I'm talking to a baseball fan, no.
So one of the things, I mean, this kind of troubles me.
I almost never think about the afterlife.
I mean, you know, I believe in it, but as we say, help my unbelief, you know, I also, how is your relationship to that concept changed or not changed or developed?
I mean, I do think, and it's weird because it's not all the time.
You know, you would love to think that you're so pious that you're, again, like you're like, Paul, whether I, you know, to live is Christ, to die is gain.
And you try to take hold of that.
But the reality is most of the time, I don't really want to gain through death, you know?
So thanks anyway.
Thanks anyway.
Right.
But I would experience through it like moments where, and it surprised me.
Like I would not have thought that being that high anxiety type of person that I would have been capable with that level of peace where I went, actually, it's going to be okay.
My kids, and part of it, you probably have felt this too, that it's, it's your own mortality, but then it's also thinking about your kids and going, I don't want to see my daughters get married without me.
I don't want to not be there.
I don't want to be there.
You know, I want to be there to guide them through proms and dates and having babies and like the things that I would miss out on.
And I would have to remind myself that whatever heaven offers is going to be so much greater than that.
And God's got my kids too.
So if in his perfect providence, he takes me off the board at this moment, he also has a covering for my kids.
And I have to trust in that.
You know, because I did have a friend who lost his wife to cancer.
And I think she was frantically trying at the end to find a miracle cure.
Missed Reputation, Easy Lost00:05:05
And he warned me and he did say, she missed the last moments.
You know, she missed a lot of great conversations that she and I could have had.
She missed time with her grandkids and because she was chasing after that cure.
And he, it was actually a hard thing, I think, for him to say to me, you know, because you want to hear, all you want to hear from everybody is you're going to be fine.
You're going to be great.
You're going to beat this thing.
And that was not what he said to me.
He said, listen, if you get there, don't miss it.
And that was actually a really loving thing.
And so I have thought about that a lot that, you know, I've kind of stepped back a little bit from work and from all of the dreams and things I thought I would chase because I went, I don't want to miss, if these are my last few years, I don't want to have not spent them with the people who matter the most to me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's everything.
It really is.
So we're now in this time, you know, it's a difficult time.
It really is.
I mean, it's like, I think this Charlie Kirk thing has hit everybody hard.
You know, we were part of the business.
We knew him.
But I think it's really touched everybody because of the revelation that silence is not violence, words are not violence.
You know, I always, every time anybody wants to say that, I want to like punch them one and say, that is violence.
And now we see how horrific, violence is horrific.
It is a terrible, terrible thing.
So it's so easy to get lost in anger.
It's so easy to get lost in grief.
It's so easy to get lost in fear.
Does any of this experience, this personal experience that you have come into this moment as a political moment?
And we've lost, you know, you've lost your main preacher as well.
So is there some way of translating the things that you're being shown in your personal challenge, some way of transferring that into the bigger challenge?
One of the things that's been interesting to me, you know, as somebody who writes so much about the evangelical world and Protestantism and Christianity, to sort of sit back and watch the reevaluation of Charlie Kirk, because a lot of the major evangelical Christian institutions that are kind of known for being, you know, intellectual publications or intellectual figures would not have openly associated with Charlie Kirk.
And that's just a fact, you know, and they would have considered him a polemicist, a bomb thrower, somebody who was too involved in the culture war.
And suddenly, for me, who's kind of part of the culture war too, in a pretty strong way with the Daily Wire, to sit back and watch their reevaluation.
Like I think it's been surprising to some of them to see the outpouring of love and affection for Charlie for his Christian witness, not just for his incredible political advocacy, but for his Christian witness.
And you're seeing some of them say, I didn't know.
I didn't know about that part of his life.
I didn't know how outspoken he was.
I don't know if you know Elisa Childer.
She has a great apologetics podcast, particularly for women.
And she came out, and this was such so humble and great of her to say this, to say, I turned down some speaking engagements with TPUSA because I didn't know if I wanted to be aligned with Charlie Kirk and his organization because I thought, you know, maybe they were just too hot politically.
And she said, I was wrong.
And I actually am now so inspired by him and I was wrong to not get involved with them.
And I would do it differently if I had the opportunity.
And all that told me was, you know what?
God's safeguarding your reputation because I've gone through that.
You know, this book came out and there was some fierce pushback because as you would expect, a lot of the people I wrote about didn't like it.
They didn't like getting written about it.
Yeah, exactly.
And they have some pretty big levers they could pull too, you know, in order to sort of dismiss me as a muckbreaker.
And while I was taken out of context or, you know, and like, for example, I heard two guys from one of these publications I'm referring to, the Gospel Coalition, do a whole interview where they were discussing my book.
And they both were like, it's not the sort of thing I'd want to give attention to.
And like it was lowbrow.
But then throughout the interview, they both admitted they hadn't read it.
So it's not the sort of thing you or anyone else should give attention to, but we don't actually know what's in it.
This is just what we've heard about it.
And I mean, that happened a lot.
Members of my own family said, I tried to give it to my pastor.
He wouldn't read it because he'd heard negative things.
And that was painful for me.
And then I look at Charlie and I go, I know that he went through the exact same thing, that there were people who kept him at arm's length because they saw him that same way.
And now they're being forced in some cases being a little bit drug kicking and screaming.
And in some gracious cases, like Elisa, people openly saying, I had him wrong.
And so you go, okay, God had his reputation.
He didn't need to worry about that.
He just needed to speak truth.
Leaders Claiming Mantle00:08:31
He just needed to do what he thought was right.
And God was going to take care of how the world saw Charlie Kirk.
And I will be honest, before this week, I would not have expected this outpouring of love and respect and affection for him.
So that's been really uplifting.
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Yeah, it's really interesting because I've listened.
I had already heard a lot of what he had to say.
And I always thought, you know, he had a skill.
It's funny.
I kind of envied him because almost everything he said religiously, I agreed with.
But he had a way of saying it definitively where I like to explore all the complications and nuances and how I'm going to get to the place of love and all this stuff in a world that has a moral order.
And I thought like somehow he was doing it with this kind of, he sounded, he sounded a lot more ferocious than the things, it's kind of like Trump than the things he was actually saying.
And I think that that was a skill in a way, because it made people feel that he was really, you know, bringing the punch, but he wasn't.
You know, he was actually preaching the love of the gospel as well as the truth of the gospel and the justice of the gospel.
It was a really amazing thing.
I'm a little worried about who you probably feel this way too.
You know, there's weird fringy movements happening sort of in Christianity.
And I look at Charlie and I go, he was bold and masculine, you know, for lack of a better word.
He had a very manly way of sort of just presenting these things.
But he was presenting true things and good things and righteous things.
And so I'm a little concerned about people who are sort of claiming his mantle being bold, but they're being bold for not good things.
Yeah, I know, I know.
And that concerns me.
So, you know, I'm keeping that in my prayers too to go, okay, Lord, you need to bring, you know, bring up new leaders who are good, you know, wholesome leaders and not, you know, people who kind of want to mix some excrement in with the truth.
You know, it's funny because at the Daily Wire, where I think we've really done a good job of having a rounded view of conservatism and of religion and all this stuff, as we started to succeed, as we started to break through the barrier, that's when all these kind of limpids started to stick to us, spouting stuff that we thought was reprehensible and also attacking us.
And I would always think, you wouldn't even be here if it weren't for us.
It's like we opened this path and now these guys are getting it's true.
You know, I should mention again that your book, the New York Times best-selling book, is Shepherds for Sale, a really intense.
I don't know how people didn't really, how people could ignore it.
I mean, it was so intensely researched and so well researched and so blunt.
But the thing that I'm wondering is your depiction of a church being corrupted by the left was very deep.
And we had a long conversation about it on the show.
The night that Trump was re-elected, I felt this kind of warm blanket of relief pass over me.
And I thought we beat him.
Not because Trump was elected, not because Trump was elected, though I was really happy about that.
But what I was really even more happy about was that the media and the cultural machine of the left had done everything they could to stop him.
And not only because of his incredible courage and resilience, but also because there wasn't now a new media that could pick out their lies in real time.
And that's why I think he's had such a huge effect in the second term where he'll say, do this.
And people just do it because they sense that the culture has turned against, turned in his favor.
And I'm wondering, is there any sense of that in the church?
I mean, when we were talking about the church before, you were talking about people just being swept away on this creepy leftist theory.
Is there any sense like, oops, you know, like maybe definitely, absolutely.
And, you know, it's coming in two forms.
You have a few who I have a ton of respect for of those who are saying, I got it wrong.
I mentioned Elisa Childers speaking about Charlie Kirk.
Another is, if you know, Professor Andrew Walker, who is kind of one of those intellectuals, he writes a lot at various outlets.
He has, on a couple of different things, said, you know, at one point he had advocated, I think, for that trans pronoun hospitality when dealing with transgender people, which I never thought was a good idea.
And others who picked up on his idea have not, you know, retracted that.
But he came out and said, I don't think I understood at the time how big of an issue it was going to become and how important it was going to be to fight it.
And I can see that.
I can think this is such an insane thing.
I can't believe it's really going to take that great of a grip on our culture.
And so he was leaning into love and saying, you know, I wanted to be loving to these people, but he now sees it.
You know, and actually, that was a mistake and has said so.
And I think he also was one of the people who advocated you should get the COVID vaccine to show you love your neighbor, which as we had discussed at the time, I really felt was going over the line and binding people's consciences and saying you need to do this debatable thing to show you love your neighbor.
He retracted that too.
So there's been a few people like that, but they're very few and far between.
What I'm seeing more is what some people are dubbing the great rehab tours.
And, you know, it's hard because on the one hand, you're like, I don't believe this is authentic.
I think, you know, you're just putting your finger in the wind and going, now it's blowing this way.
So I'm going to change my rhetoric and I'm going to come over to this side and kind of pretend like I was here all the time.
And we are seeing that.
I think you're seeing some really large, well-known pastors, even some that I write about in the book, like a former Southern Baptist convention president, which if you're not familiar with the Southern Baptist Convention, it's the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S.
So you're seeing some of their leadership sounding more conservative.
They are no longer talking about George Floyd and social justice and reforming our policing system because it's racist.
You're not hearing that anymore.
And there's one part of your flesh that wants to go, I'm going to stick it to him.
You guys didn't say this.
This is not where you are.
But on the other hand, you go, this is a win, right?
It's good that they're shifting places.
And for the guys who I think were just sort of mouthing what was popular in the culture, I'm tending to give them a lot of grace and a lot of room to move.
For those who engineered it, I have a lot less grace.
Yeah.
So there's a few who I'm like, no, you went far enough that you need to speak on the record and quite frankly repent.
So I'm waiting for that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, there is, I like the comic relief of a follower of Christ blowing, holding his finger to the wind.
I mean, there's something hilariously comic about that.
We have to end on something a little bit more cheerful, which is that in spite of everything I have tried to tell you, you have your self-destructive streak has, you know, re-asserted itself.
Tony's Unexpected Novel00:03:28
And you wrote a novel and sold it, which is amazing.
What on earth moved you to do such a thing?
Am writing, I will say, because it was so unexpected when it happened.
And that's Providence, too.
So the editor who, against, absolutely against his will, was forced to drop my book, ended up, he and some other former colleagues from, I think it's pronounced Bay In Books, which is distributed by Simon ⁇ Schuster, had started a new imprint called Ark Press.
So Tony Daniel, Tony Daniel.
Oh, yeah.
He's good.
Yeah.
He's great.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he messaged me and said, we're starting this.
I have my entire life, you know, I've aspired to be you.
I wanted to be a novelist my whole life.
And he's like, you are one of the few nonfiction authors I worked with that I think has the chops to write a novel.
Is there anything you've wanted to write?
And I said, actually, I have one.
I've already started writing many years ago and would love to finish and pitched it to them.
And they said, we love this.
We want it to be our Christmas tent poll release.
So yeah, it was based on, you know, probably 10 years ago, I saw a notice in The Guardian about the fathers of obstetrics in the 18th century, William Hunter and William Snelly.
Great name.
I'm not going to use that.
are now being their legacy is being reassessed.
And I don't know if this is true, but it's great for a novel.
It has been considered that perhaps they were soliciting the murder of pregnant women in order to get the level of research that they needed to initiate the field of obstetrics.
So I went, oh, that would be a great story.
So that's how that came about.
So look for it hopefully right before, shortly before Christmas.
Oh, that is great.
Well, congratulations.
That is really exciting.
And it's just the kind of dark, ugly thing I would expect to come out of your horror.
Imagination.
Have you ever seen the film The Body Snatchers based on the Robert Louis Stevenson story?
I think I saw it year.
I mean, probably when I was like a kid, and I don't remember it very well.
You should take a look at it.
It's Boris Carla film.
But it's really interesting in what you're talking about because it is a good story.
And the original story is one of the greatest short stories ever written and just absolutely terrifying is Robert Louis Stevenson, The Body Snatchers.
What's the name of your novel?
The Vesalius Club.
The what?
The Vesalius Club.
Andreas Vesalius, the famous anatomist of the 15th century.
Cool.
So he was a famous grave robber, did all kinds of unsavory things to advance the field of medicine.
So that's what, yeah.
Excellent.
Well, congratulations.
Megan, I continue to pray for you.
I'm sure a lot of people do.
And it's wonderful to see you.
You look great.
And it's great to talk to you again.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me, Andrew.
It's so good to be here.
It's always a pleasure.
All right.
Great to see Megan Basham.
Again, her best-selling book is Shepherds for Sale.
She's got a new novel coming out for Christmas.
Watch for that.
Really, I first met her when she interviewed me for a Christian publication, and I immediately thought, wow, she is a talent and recommended here to the Daily Wire, although I'm not sure that's why nobody ever listens to my recommendations, but she really has become everything I thought she could be, just terrific.
On Friday, however, I will be back just by my lovable lonesome self with the Andrew Clavin Show.