Cecilia Stevenson and Anthony D’Ambrogio’s Triumph of the Heart chronicles Maximilian Kolbe, a Catholic priest executed at Auschwitz in 1941 after volunteering to replace a condemned father. Filmed in Poland (2023) with WWII-era props and a Polish crew, the project grew from a 2018 Diocese of Dallas short film into a feature, overcoming theatrical distribution hurdles via a 400+ community crowdfunding effort. Kolbe’s final two weeks—marked by starvation and lethal injection—became a testament to faith, inspiring others despite the horror, with actor Oleg bringing devotion to his role as Jonas. The film’s raw authenticity and emotional depth defy typical religious cinema clichés, offering a powerful reminder of martyrdom’s enduring hope in darkness. [Automatically generated summary]
Hey everyone, it's Andrew Claven with this week's interview with Cecilia Stevenson, the producer of the new film Triumph of the Hearts, the story of Saint Maximilian Kolbe, who you may have heard of or may not have heard of.
He died at the Auschwitz Nazi death camp in Poland.
Just an absolutely harrowing story.
I watched the film just a few days ago, and it's very powerful and surprising stuff, a very rich, visual, well-acted and well-directed story directed by Anthony D'Ambrogio.
You know, many years ago, I visited Auschwitz, and it's a place, as I reported to my wife afterwards, that not even the birds sing at Auschwitz.
It's a place where no horror you can imagine was not committed by man against man.
And one of the things that's been very frustrating to me in recent days in this information crisis that we're all in, where there's so much information and no way to tell what's true and what's not true, is the rewriting of history where people start believing the Holocaust was a hoax or that we were on the wrong side of the war somehow and that Hitler was just stumbled into killing people.
And a lot of this comes from the hatred of Jews, but the fact is the Nazis were against anything that smacked of God, anything that smacked of decency and of holiness and of just of humanity.
The absolute breadth of their evil is almost hard to conceive of if you haven't read, as I have, like a million books about it.
And there are even controversies that have taken place around Auschwitz where Catholics and Jews have argued about who should have monuments there or who should have nunneries and things like that, which of course is very human of them to do.
But my feeling is that they should understand that they're all representing something that the Nazis hated, which was the presence of God.
Cecilia Stevenson is a film producer who specializes in stories of faith, purpose, and sacrifice.
She's worked on Washington's Armor and the Chosen, and she's now produced this film, which, as I say, is a really surprising, talented piece of work.
Cecilia, it's nice to meet you.
Thank you for coming on.
Thank you so much.
It's wonderful to be here.
So tell people the story a little bit so they know what we're talking about and they're not in the dark.
Absolutely.
So our film, Triumph of the Heart, it starts with the thing that people know most about Maximilian Colby, for those that do know about Maximilian Colby, and that is with his decision to step forward and save another man's life.
So the situation was he's in Auschwitz.
A prisoner tries to escape.
And as a punishment, the Nazis chose 10 men at random to die.
So they had them all line up.
And then the commandant went through and he chose 10 men.
One of the men steps forward, cries out for his life, please, no, please, no.
I have a wife.
I have children.
He's begging for his life.
And Maximilian Colby steps forward out of line and says, I will take this man's place.
I'm a Catholic priest.
And surprisingly, miraculously, probably he was not shot on spot, on spot.
And the commandant, we don't know why, but he agreed to Kolbe's, I guess, his volunteering.
And so he took Kolby in place of the other man.
And so that's where our film starts.
And then it proceeds through the final days of Maximilian Colby's life.
And it's a very hard and heavy film to watch, as you might imagine, and as you experienced the other day.
And perhaps you can say that this is true.
There are many themes of hope and of love.
And those are actually the most, that's the most important part of the story is how Colby brought hope and love to these men, these other nine men that were all condemned to death, death by starvation.
That was the punishment.
And so they all, they all died by starvation.
But Colby actually and a couple of the other men, they actually lived somehow 14 days.
And they actually, the Nazis, the men wouldn't die, Colby and the others that were still alive.
And so they had to inject them with carbolic acid to kill them because they were just surviving.
They were living and the Nazis couldn't have that.
So yeah, they had to kill them.
But they survived 14 days, which we don't know exactly how or why.
But those 14 days essentially is what our story is all about and how Colby brought hope and love to those men in that intense, intense time of suffering.
Yeah, it's funny.
You know, a friend of mine, Cyrus Nawasta, made a film called The Stoning of Soraya M, which was a very brutal film to watch.
And it's still a picture that's passed around in certain circles, but it didn't do that well.
And I remember I was sitting in a bar one night and he sat down next to me looking very depressed.
And I said, let me guess, you know, people didn't want to go on date night and watch this film about a girl getting stoned.
And I sort of felt like this approaching this film, but in fact, because it's infused with faith, it actually is a shockingly, I don't want to use the word upbeat, but it's actually an inspiring film that is not as painful to watch as you're, you know, when you describe it, it's a painful story.
I'm wondering, when you started out, you were on this picture from the beginning, I take it.
When you started out, did you think about that?
Did you think about the fact that like you're taking on the story that's just not, it's not a musical?
How are you going to get people to come into a theater?
Yeah, we absolutely thought about that.
And gosh, it's really been crazy this whole journey.
And for many, many reasons, it's been crazy.
But yes, we definitely thought about that.
Interestingly, so Anthony and I have worked together for years.
He's the writer director.
I'm the producer.
That's we're kind of the combo, the special combo in that way.
And we actually made a short film of the same exact story.
So same exact thing, starting with Colby stepping, well, stepping forward out of line and then through his final days and focusing on that time in the cell.
And it was for a Catholic young adults group, basically.
And we were commissioned by the Diocese of Dallas to make kind of a short film series for this young adult group.
And the theme was on suffering.
And so you would think, yeah, I don't know.
I guess with the intentionality of like going into this young adults, you know, group environment, obviously the theme was suffering.
So it was on everyone's minds.
But the kind of the way that the movie was received, I guess, like you said, it's very heavy, but you feel the love from Colby for these men, both in our short film, it was received then, and then in the feature film now.
And so what we experienced with the short film back in 2018 is when that came out, like with this young adult group in Dallas, is people, people received it very similarly to how they're receiving the feature film now, which is like, wow, like Jesus loves me and he's here with me in my suffering.
And so it wasn't, we kind of expected a similar sort of thing going into the making this feature film.
And, you know, we, I think we, we believed that people are hungry for a meaningful story.
You know, you don't have to look, you don't have to look far.
You don't have to scroll, scroll too much through Netflix or Amazon, you know, any, just all of the movies that are out there, right?
You don't have to look too far to find something that is like not full of meaning and virtue and whatnot.
It's just everywhere, right?
And so we have seen just like a culture movement and people are seem to be, at least from our circles and what we're seeing, people are hungry for a story that is that is full of meaning.
And that's what we present, even though it is a very hard subject matter.
We believe that ultimately love wins, ultimately, like good wins.
And that is ultimately what our film's about.
So, you know, the question then becomes, will people show up to watch the movie in the theaters?
Yes, people have been showing up.
We've been doing pre-screenings.
We've been doing all of the things that you do in the movie world leading up to opening weekend.
And the film is being received incredibly well.
People have amazing, like, it just experiences like so powerful spiritual experiences watching this movie.
It is just mind-blowing, really, and such a beautiful thing to witness.
So I think we were hopeful of that happening at the beginning.
And now that it kind of has been happening, and you know, opening weekend, like we'll, we'll tell all, but all of the signs are pointing towards just a very good reception of this movie, even though it is hard to watch.
Yeah, I have to say, you know, I get sent a lot of religious films, and I don't like religious films because so many of them are so bland and happy, happy and not like real life.
But from the first shot of this, I actually sat up in my chair.
You were kind enough to send me a screener and I sat up in my chair and thought, oh, wait, you know, this is actually the, first of all, the direction is really, really good and the acting is very top-notch, which is one of the hardest things a lot of for independent filmmakers to do.
I'm really interested in the filmmaking process of a picture like this, which is not just an independent picture, but it's an independent picture that is going to have to find its audience.
It's serious.
It is, as you say, a heavy story.
How long ago did the filmmaking, when you did that, that one for the young adults, how long ago was that?
We filmed that in 2017 and then it like, it came out in three-part series.
We released it in 2018 over the course of several months.
Okay, so you're talking five years ago?
No.
Seven, eight.
Good grief.
Yeah, that's embarrassing.
Okay.
So let's talk about that.
How did the whole thing begin?
Like, what made you start with that story anyway?
Yeah, that's a great question.
So it really, the, the beginning kernel really comes from Anthony.
So when we were approached by the Diocese of Dallas to make this short film series with the theme of suffering, Anthony was going through just a very deep and hard season of personal suffering in his own life.
And he had an encounter with Maximilian Colby.
His personal story is online in multiple places if people interested in hearing more about that.
But he has an encounter with Colby, kind of comes back to the faith through these kind of like conversations that he had with Colby, basically envisioning himself as one of the men in that cell with Maximilian and Maximilian, like loving him and meeting him where he was at.
And so through this encounter with Colby, we were then approached by the Diocese of Dallas to make this series on suffering.
And Anthony was like, hey, I got an idea.
And so he wrote the short film script.
It was about a 20-minute short film.
And then we did that whole thing.
And it was, like I said, it was received really well.
It was, it was, I, I still basically up until making like the now feature version of that story, it was one of my favorite projects like to produce, just like working on all kinds of various short films and various things.
It was one of my favorite projects because it felt like we were walking on holy ground and it was such a special, special project.
So now the feature film has since like, you know, surpassed that special place in my heart for my favorite project.
But basically from 2018 through, gosh, when did he start writing the script?
I think he started writing the script around the pandemic, honestly, maybe 2020, 2021, like starting to like, you know, create the bones of the feature length, basically, you know, drawing it out into a two, a little bit less than two hour movie, you know, 100, 120 pages.
And he called me, gosh, I think he had taken a trip to Poland to do research.
He was kind of in the process of finishing the script.
And I believe that was in 2020.
Gosh, what year is it?
Yeah, 2022.
Summer of 2022.
He was in Poland.
He had, you know, kind of the first draft, like a good readable version of the script.
He calls me, uh, he's like, Hey, like, let's put together a budget.
What do you think we can do this for?
Uh, and we settled on a quarter of a million dollars, which for us is a ton of money, right?
Like, the short film we did was like 20 grand or something, uh, so a quarter of a million.
We ended up doubling that.
You know, when all was said and done, the movie cost about 500,000 to make production and post-production combined.
Um, and so we've kind of started those conversations in the summer of 2022.
Uh, and then towards the end of that year is when he started fundraising.
So, he's really the mastermind, obviously, like the script and all of that, but also he's the one that networked just in our Dallas network of Catholic entrepreneurs, businessmen.
And he used the short film as a kind of proof of concept and basically like went around and asked people to kind of like host a little movie night.
And he would, you know, show their short film, he'd make his pitch.
And one by one, he was looking for investors.
And so, we got investors slowly but surely in the form of you know 10K, 15K, 20K, just like people, you know, just like chipping in like little bits at a time.
Uh, and then we set ourselves a deadline.
Uh, I think it was around April.
It's like, hey, if we, if we have, you know, 250 in the bank, uh, April 20, this was 2023 at this time, like, okay, then we're going to shoot in the fall because we're trying to, you know, we're trying to plan the timeline.
Like, how does all the, how do all these things work together?
So, we gave ourselves a deadline.
Uh, and you know, we were we were pretty far off, we were pretty far off from hitting the deadline, maybe like over $100,000 away.
We're like, okay, it's in God's hands, like, let's just, we'll just wait and see.
Um, and then God just unexpectedly plopped a very large basically, like someone came to us and said, How much do you need?
And he like wrote a blank check essentially to like get us to our goal.
Uh, and so that kind of kicked off like pre-production.
We chose to film in the fall, and I can kind of talk more about that if that's of interest.
But uh, yeah, pre-production and production was a whole crazy whirlwind because we chose to actually film in Poland.
So, that was a big decision to be sure.
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Finding Actors00:14:58
Yeah, now, you know, the raising of money, I mean, $500,000 is nothing for a movie.
And I say that as someone who's never raised a dime in my life, I've never been able to, I've just worked for a living my whole life.
And I think it's to make a film like this for $500,000 that looks as good as it does look is really difficult to do.
You really have to know what you're doing to do it.
When you had the money, now you've got to find the actors.
This is the other thing I've noticed.
When I first started talking about the need to address the culture, which is now 20 years ago, every film that I was shown had terrible acting in it.
And people, you know, actors, in one sense, are thick on the ground because everybody wants to be one.
But good actors are really hard to find.
What exactly did you do?
Now you've got the money in your hand.
What did you do?
Gosh, yeah, you are, you're so right.
They, I think they say, I don't know what they say exactly, but it's something along the lines of when you, when you cast, like when you choose your cast, you're in essence, like so much of the movie is already kind of like predetermined in a way based on the casting alone.
Like it's such a big decision, like the actors that you choose to portray your characters, because that's like literally like the film comes alive because of those men, mostly men in our case.
And so, yeah, how did we do it?
So, we're in Poland, right?
And we had, we had a handful of basically Polish production partners, right, that we had mostly found online, if I'm completely honest, like Google searches and Facebook, like film groups in Poland is like literally how we found our kind of like our production team because I don't know anything about producing a film in Poland.
So we needed people who speak Polish, people who know the film world in Poland.
So once we got those, you know, select few, we found a local casting director.
Honestly, it was, it was a lot of just online like casting forums.
So a big one was, it sounds silly, but backstage.
It's, I don't know if you're familiar.
It's a, it's a pretty popular like online casting platform, I guess.
You kind of have to weed through a lot of submissions usually if you post a casting call.
But honestly, two, like our two of our main stars we found on backstage.
And then a handful of the supporting characters we also found on backstage.
So we did really well on backstage.
And then just, yeah, other kind of casting calls in like various like local groups and whatnot.
But in terms of, so like that's like, you know, the just putting out a casting call, that doesn't guarantee you're going to get like a good actor.
Right.
So I guess I give a lot of credit to Anthony for sure.
Like he definitely led the drive with the casting process.
And he, to his credit, I think he has a very good sense of like just good acting.
I don't know.
Like I don't have that sense.
I mean, I can give my opinions here and there, but he, he kind of like knows the, like he's really good at with like kind of reading people and like reading in between the lines, like subtext, all these sorts of things.
He just, he has this like intuition.
And so I think, I think that like came into play certainly, like when we were auditioning, all these different people for all of these different, like, I think there was over 40 like casts, like cast members that we had to cast.
And it was, that's just, it's a lot.
It's a lot of people to cast in a foreign country.
But he, he did it.
And he, I think his intuition played into it.
I think he was really, I think he was really smart with who he chose to say no to.
We did actually some in-person auditions for the 10 men, like the 10 men in the cell.
Like obviously those are like the main, you know, the main characters.
And we did a handful of kind of like in person where we would just get like a group of like, hey, these, these 20 guys look pretty good.
You know, their reels are all right or whatever.
And we just threw them all together and had them kind of like act out some of the scenes to just get a better feel for like how they were as actors.
And I don't know, between like Anthony's intuition and honestly just God blessing us, like I like 100%.
And I mean this like very seriously is that the people that he gave us for the roles, like some of them were very, very hard to cast.
The character Jonas, who you know because you've seen the movie, he was an he was a very complex character.
And a lot of the auditions that we were getting for him were just reading the character incorrectly.
And Anthony was, again, to his credit, like he was like, no, like, I know what I want.
I'm going to hold out.
I'm going to hold out.
And we were like literally like a week before production starts.
And I'm like, we don't have our Jonas.
Like this is like one of our top three characters, but God gave us the right.
And he's so perfect.
The Oleg, the gentleman that played him, you know, the guy that plays Colby, he was absolute, he's absolutely like beautiful human being.
He has like a former addict, had a conversion, personal devotion to Maximilian Colby himself.
Like so many of the cast members were just like gifts from the Lord, honestly.
So between that and Anthony's just like really keen sense for reading people, I think that's what led to the acting being so good.
Did you decide to cast it in Poland?
Speaking to Cecilia Stevenson, the producer of a new film called Triumph of the Heart, did you decide to do it in Poland just for the authenticity or was it cheaper?
We thought it would be a little bit of both.
So certainly the authenticity.
And I think that was probably the primary reason.
The cost, I did think, did come into it to an extent.
And the two are kind of tied together because we figured, so in Poland, World War II, like era movies are very, very popular.
It's, I mean, yeah, for kind of obvious reasons.
And so there are lots of these types of movies, which means there are lots of resources for those types of movies to be made.
And so that was definitely part of the decision.
We thought maybe the cost would be a little bit lower in some instances, like maybe, you know, it's 20 bucks to rent this thing versus 100 bucks in the US.
That may have been true in some cases, but it was more so the like readily available, you know, like World War II vehicles, costumes, like all of the props and like all the guns, like the Nazi guns, the Nazi uniforms, all of the like kind of production design elements that go into making the film look real.
Like we would have had to find all that stuff in the U.S.
And I'm sure it would have been available, but to get it to wherever we, whatever state we were filming in, probably would have been like much more expensive than just like, oh, yeah, you just drive down the road and like there's this gigantic prop house and it has anything you could ever want.
And like, oh yeah, there's like hundreds of like Nazi prisoner uniforms just like right down the street right there.
It's like, it was just like so available.
But then to your other point, spot on, like the, the authenticity that we knew we would be able to achieve filming in Poland was like also a very big determining factor.
And I think, I mean, I don't know, I would love, I hope, hopefully you agree, but I think you can feel it.
At least I can feel it when I'm watching the movie.
And that comes in, I think, with the Polish actors.
Our cast is primarily Polish, not 100%, but primarily.
And so they feel the story a much deeper.
Not that, you know, American actors couldn't have pulled it off, but I think there's a like a deep resonance that our actors felt with the story that certainly also comes through in the acting.
You know, you're asking about the acting earlier.
I think that's also perhaps part of the reason.
But then also the story just feels like the production design and like the environment, the locations, that was another huge thing is the beautiful locations that we had.
You know, most of the movie takes place inside the cell, but like some of the other exteriors and some of the other, like the mansions that we filmed in were just truly spectacular.
Was it difficult to create an Auschwitz to be in a situation where you're filming Auschwitz?
I mean, I found the play, you know, it sounds silly to say it, but I found the place incredibly depressing like this and oppressive.
Yeah.
Was it, did you capture that atmosphere while you were shooting or is that something that doesn't doesn't affect you until you're watching the film?
You know, we certainly tried to.
And me, in my role as a producer, I'm typically on the shoot days, I was pretty removed from the action that was happening on set because I had all kinds of things I was coordinating and planning and whatnot.
But every once in a while, I would sneak onto set and just kind of like be there.
But as far as like creating the environment on set, Anthony, again, like to his credit, this is his first time directing a feature film, but he was very, very intentional about like making sure that everyone on set, cast and crew, knew that we were walking on sacred ground and there was very much an element of like, this is a like, we need to be respectful.
This is a story that we are telling.
These were real human beings that lived.
And, you know, every day, like every day we filmed, we started the day with prayer.
We kind of did like a group sort of like meditation, I guess.
Not all of our actors and Kras and crew were Christian, but we did like kind of a group like meditation, like in the spirit of like the theme of the day, if you will.
And so when we were filming the Auschwitz scene, just like all the other days, like Anthony like led everyone, cast crew, you know, all the PAs, the sound guy, everyone was there.
And we're like, we did like kind of a group meditation.
And Anthony tried like very hard to just like create that environment on set.
So yeah, in terms of recreating Auschwitz, you know, obviously like being on a film set, there's so many different things going on, right?
Like the dogs barking and the kids crying over there and like, you know, and then there's like a siren or like the sound, you know, but like all of those things aside, like Anthony and his intention was very much to, I guess, hold that as sacred ground.
And I think he did a very, a very good job of that.
You know, I'm always interested in the just the way you get something into the actual world.
So forgive me if this is going into the weeds.
Getting a film into theaters is incredibly difficult.
How did you go about that?
Oh, that's so funny.
That's literally what we're, this is the battle that we've been fighting and are actually fighting right now.
So you're 100% correct.
Getting a film in theaters specifically for indie films, right?
So like we're not a big studio.
I'm sure it's 100% different if you're a big studio and you just want, you just like, you know, probably just make a single phone call and the deal is done, right?
But for us, not only like we're not a big studio, we don't have celebrity anyone attached to us.
Like I'm not a celebrity, Anthony's not.
We don't have any A-list actors.
We have some Polish movie stars, but those don't really help us in the States.
So we have to prove ourselves to the theaters that we are worth like, you know, putting, putting on their calendar, right?
And there's a handful of things that we've done to do that.
One of them is we had a series of pre-screenings that we got with our booker.
And so these were, these were like little sneak peeks that we did during the month of August.
And we had people basically volunteer to host these pre-screenings and like gather their communities.
And so it was sort of a little window into the like, like as like pre-sales, basically.
It was like our first little, our first little attempt to show the theaters, like, hey, people want to come see the movie.
They're willing to pay for it.
Right.
So we did the pre-screenings.
That was in April or sorry, August.
We also, so the thing that we're doing right now, which is really crazy, never been done before that I've ever heard of anyway, is we basically developed a technology that allows like a website that allowed people, everyday Catholics and like other Christians and anyone really that wanted to host their own screening to sign up to launch a campaign, basically like a crowdfunding campaign to raise money for a theater buyout.
And so mostly most places in the U.S., it's $1,500 to buy out a theater.
And so we just developed this website and we ended up, it's kind of insane.
This campaign that we were running, it just closed a few days ago.
And we have over 400 crowdfunding campaigns all across the U.S.
And these are just everyday people getting their communities together to raise $1,500, sometimes more if you're in a more expensive area of the U.S.
And so then now we take that and we go to the theaters and we're saying, hey, theaters, we literally have like three quarter, like $700,000 worth of sort of like ticket pre-sales, essentially.
So again, we're going to the theaters, we're proving ourselves.
We're saying like, hey, people want to see this movie.
Like put us in your theaters.
Like there, there will be more demand.
This is just a like, hopefully just like a small window.
So yeah, we're having to fight tooth and nail.
And it's like everything's so expensive, you know, like our team, we have a team of many people now.
We keep adding people to the team because there's like so much work to do still and there's like two weeks left.
But yeah, it's as an indie film trying to prove to the theaters that we're worth it.
That's that's the main battle right now.
How many theaters have you got?
Oh, gosh.
Well, there's the 400 that like from the militia.
So in theory, like we will be in minimum.
And so those are what, so what our distributor is doing, basically what our strategy is.
So we have these 400 like single screening, like a, you know, like a single, a single showtime, essentially.
And so what our distributor is doing is he's saying, hey, look, listen, like I have a, I have a group that's going to like buy out one showing, but I want you to run the movie the whole weekend.
Like I want you to give me, you know, 10, 12, 20, however many more screenings the whole weekend to run my movie.
And you know, the theaters are now starting to take us a little bit more seriously, which is really great for us.
And so we're kind of like, it's kind of this like waiting game to see like, okay, the movies that came out last weekend, how are those movies doing?
The movies that came out this weekend, how are those movies going to do?
And it's just kind of this crazy scheduling game of like the theaters are choosing like what movies to put on their roster for any given weekend.
And we're trying to like get them to notice us.
And it's, it's slowly working, but it's, it's kind of crazy.
So, and after this, do you have a path to streaming or you just have to work it out as you go along?
You know, we're going to do the second option.
We have some ideas for streaming.
It's, we certainly want to eventually pursue, you know, all the, all the typical avenues, you know, the Netflix, the Amazon.
We're going to go after those guys eventually.
There's some talks of building our own streaming thing.
Anthony's, he's a big dreamer.
I can't, I can't stop him from dreaming.
No, I think he's right, though.
I think he's smart.
He's smart.
Yes.
So we might do something of our own.
And then there's a couple kind of like in the Catholic vein, Catholic streaming platforms that like we're also like pursuing relationships with right now.
But to be completely honest, we are, because we're so small and we're having to fight so hard just to get in the theaters in the U.S., like that is where the majority of our attention is going right now.
And so streaming will 100% happen.
I can't tell you what all platforms it will be on, but it will definitely be out there.
Yeah, no, it's really interesting to me because I think this is the way forward.
It's the only way that films like this are going to get made.
It's the only way they're going to get seen.
And I think that the building of platforms, distribution is always the big problem.
Anybody can make a film with a credit card, but it's like distribution is just a backbreaking problem.
And the first person, I mean, Angel Studios did a good job in solving it at one level, but the first person who can do it at this level, I think your director is right.
The Way Forward00:00:52
That's always good to just use anything you've got.
Cecilia Stevenson, really nice talking to you.
The film, again, is Triumph of the Heart, a surprising and talented film and a very moving story of one of the great martyrs of Auschwitz.
I mean, there were so many that there are countless ones, but he was one who stands out.
It's really nice talking to you, and I wish you the best of luck.
I hope it goes well.
Thank you so much, Andrew.
It was a pleasure.
Yeah, really surprising, you know, surprising movie.
I get sent all these, as I said, I get sent all these religious films.
And it's very rare that one of them makes me sit up and take notice.
This is a very, very different kind of take on a grim story that somehow is not grim because it's infused with faith.
Triumph of the Heart.
And that was Cecilia Stevenson, the producer.
I will be back on next Friday.
Is that right?
Yes, I will.
I'll be back on Friday with the Andrew Claven show.