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June 21, 2025 - Andrew Klavan Show
01:08:18
Ep. 1235 - Make America Real Again

Andrew Klavan mocks the DNC’s absurd "no-kings" protests—framed as a goat-headed god speech and Pelosi comparisons—while dismissing MAGA isolationists like Bannon, Carlson, and Vance for their perceived impracticality, especially in preventing Iran’s nuclear ambitions. He praises Trump’s realism but critiques Supreme Court rulings like Bostock for ignoring biological sex, calling transgender policies "madness" akin to Three Christs of Ypsilanti. Klavan ties cultural delusions to spiritual decline, urging faith over government solutions, and promotes Daily Wire Plus, Stopbox (with code discounts), and Pre-Born Network’s pro-life services. Ultimately, he argues reality is lost when personal devotion replaces disciplined action, blending satire with a call for conservative values rooted in self-restraint and divine connection. [Automatically generated summary]

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Time Text
No-Kings Victory Celebration 00:04:08
Democrats and other misprints in the Book of Life are celebrating a rare victory after a weekend of no-kings protests resulted in there being no American kings.
The Democrat comeback ended a frustrating period of months in which party officials sought for some way to convince the American electorate that they were not just hollow gloved puppets being manipulated by the sinister unseen hands of communists and jihadis, while still remaining true to their goal of being hollow glove puppets manipulated by the sinister unseen hands of communists and jihadis.
The turnaround came after chairman of the Democrat National Committee Abadan Pazuzu delivered a rousing and inspiring speech to the golden statue of a goat-headed god, saying, quote, O Lord of darkness, come to our aid so that we may know we haven't traded away our souls in vain.
We have sought to win back the love of the American people by setting their cities on fire, interfering with their law enforcement officers in the rightful performance of their duties, mutilating their children, persecuting their politicians, silencing their opinions, dividing them into hostile camps according to their various races, and shutting their churches and synagogues while simultaneously cheering on acts of Islamist terror so horrifying in their apocalyptic evil, we thought they'd be sure to win at least as loyal a following as Nancy Pelosi.
And yet somehow, nothing we've done has managed to recapture the affection of the nation we're trying so desperately to destroy.
Guide our steps to success, O unholy one, so that we might raise our approval ratings, which are in double digits only when expressed as fractions.
Unquote.
Shortly after this address, the DNC staged the nationwide no-kings protests, which were so successful, even the protesters themselves were amazed.
As one 80-year-old wearing the rags of what used to be a Woodstock t-shirt wrote in his leatherette-bound diary, quote, I was beginning to worry I had wasted my life supporting delusional policies that promised utopia but instead turned everything they touched to crap.
But now, in a single weekend, our protests managed to reduce Donald Trump from a mighty king to nothing but the President of the United States, leader of the free world, and commander-in-chief of the most lethal fighting force on earth.
I feel my dreams have become a reality for the first time since we put an end to all wars by ushering in the age of Aquarius.
Unquote.
Left-wing activist Bruce Flapjaw, president of the Enlightened Institute of Endemic Imaginary Outrages, or EIEIO, celebrated the victory with a jubilant press release saying, quote, With the geriatric Trump forming a far-right monarchy in network newscasts and other fantasies, we were able to mobilize thousands of know-nothing political quacks, geriatric white women in mumus, and Ivy League-educated dumb clucks,
until with a mumu here and a mumu there, here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a dumb cluck, Old Man Donald's far-right form was expelled by the EIEIO.
Unquote.
The Democrats mean to follow up their triumph later in the summer with a nationwide series of no-alchemist protests, pledging that they will not relent until they have rid the nation of every long-bearded man in a conical starry cap who is trying to turn lead into gold.
Excited by the success of the Democrats in expelling the kings from the U.S., right-wing anti-Semites plan to follow suit, staging their own protests against imaginary outrages by declaring they will not die for Israel.
The Groupers say they plan to illustrate their protest signs with pictures of doughty Christian knights to show what a brave and noble thing it is not to do what no one is asking them to do, but what they would eventually have to do if the Jews weren't currently doing it for them.
After the I Will Not Die for Israel marches, the Groypers plan to gather to celebrate the triumphant fact that not one of them has died for Israel, marking the accomplishment by unleashing a barrage of social media posts spelling the word Jew with two O's to proclaim to all the world that they don't know how to spell the word Jew.
Spy's Dilemma 00:14:53
Trigger Point, I'm Andrew Klavan, and this is The Andrew Klavan Show.
All right, the vast right-wing conspiracy known as Klavanon continues.
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Today's comment comes from Special Forces of Liberty.
He says, I literally watched all three of the unknown crime movies that Clavin recommended in the member block in last week's episode.
The movies were so extremely excellent that I am now planning my first bank robbery and look forward to looking at 25 years to life.
Take it from me, the Clavin Show really does change lives.
As I say, we do change your life, but I never promise we're going to change your life for the better.
However, we will if you get the kingdom of Cain, Finding God in the Literature of Darkness.
I'm not going to push it on you anymore, but if you haven't bought it by now, you are in danger of being damned for all eternity.
Let's get to today's episode, Make America Real Again.
Hours before I came on the air last week, Israel unleashed its attacks on Iran.
And since then, there's been a lot of talk about whether the U.S. will have to help them out by dropping bunker-busting bombs on Iran's buried nuclear facilities.
The question that we're facing is if we send B-2s with bunker-busting bombs while Congress is still busy with the big beautiful bill, will we have enough Bs to handle both businesses at once?
But President Trump has now said there may still be room for some negotiations.
At this point, he's demanding surrender, so I don't know what they can negotiate, but he says he's going to take two weeks.
He says he will decide whether he's going to help the Israelis within two weeks.
But so we're going to discuss this.
And just so you know, let me state my position before I begin.
I think that isolationism, the idea that we never go in anywhere, non-interventionism, I think it's the philosophy of a child.
The world is small.
We're interlinked.
Trouble far away can show up at your doorstep in a big hurry.
Keeping the peace sometimes means joining with your allies in fighting things.
But at the same time, when I hear guys like Lindsey Graham start calling for regime change, all I think is, holy crap, you guys never learn anything.
We're not the country we were in 1950.
We're not, you know, it's not like we have no competition.
It's not like we're rolling in dough.
We're deep in debt.
We're very divided in our own country.
And even if regime change were a good policy, which I don't think it is, we still need to pull back and strengthen ourselves before we go forward, just like the French and Russians did after their revolutions when they were weak.
They pulled in and then they went out and conquered places.
I'm not saying we should conquer places, but I think I am saying that we do have to pull back.
So somewhere between the isolationists and the neocons, I think is where we're going to have to go.
But the thing is, if this were a problem that could be solved by ideology alone, that would make it unique, a unique problem in the annals of history.
It's great to know what you think and it's great to have clear goals, but life is bigger than philosophy and each problem has to be handled on its own terms.
So I think this is a simple problem, but I think it's a hard problem.
And I'll explain what that means and then I'll explain how I think we're going to solve it.
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Chapter one, Krav Maga.
Krav Maga is obviously the Israeli martial art.
In Hebrew, Krav means combat and MAGA means contact.
So it's contact combat.
And it occurs to me that Israel is living in reality where they are, in fact, in contact combat with people who want to wipe them off the face of the earth.
But here in America, we have Krav Maga because we're not living in reality.
We're living in America.
And Krav Maga is the combat in the MAGA movement over some of the most ridiculous, detached from reality ideas it's possible to have.
So we have this situation in Israel.
They've done significant damage to Iran's nuclear program.
And remember, they've been fighting Iran all this time when they're fighting Hamas and when they're fighting Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Those are all Iran.
That's just who they are.
They're funded by, propped up by, weaponized by Iran.
So now they're going right to the monster himself.
And Iran has this nuclear program that they've been telling us for a long time is proceeding apace.
But now they say it's very, very close to completion.
And in fact, some people are saying that it is completed and they just need two weeks to put it all together.
But Israel has damaged the nuclear programs, wiped out a lot of the military and scientific leadership.
And they seem to have pretty much destroyed their air defenses, but they're throwing missiles back and forth at each other.
And the only question left in real life for us, for us Americans, is whether they need the U.S. and its bunker-busting bombs to get at the buried nuclear sites at Fort Owen and Natan's because they're just buried so deep and these bunker busters just plunge in there and blow them up.
And President Trump, not just during his campaign, but over the last decade and more, more than, it's really close to forever as long as he's been talking politics.
He's been very clear on his policy.
Here's a brief part of a super cut, just having him say the same thing over and over again is cut too.
You can't let Iran have nuclear weapons.
Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon.
Very simple.
They cannot have a nuclear weapon.
Instead, we have a very hostile country that wants nuclear weapons.
Can't let that happen.
The main thing is Iran can't have a nuclear weapon.
That was my main thing.
The deal was a simple deal.
Iran can't have a nuclear, you know, it can't have a missile, can't have a nuclear missile.
It cannot have that nuclear capability.
Iran should not have a nuclear weapon.
They should have never been in a position where they could have had.
If I were president, they wouldn't even be thinking about a nuclear weapon.
So his policy, I think his policy has been pretty clear.
And anybody who's saying, you know, anybody who opposes us joining the attack is not MAGA.
Obviously, it is MAGA since he is MAGA, since he invented MAGA.
And now, even though he has said, as I said, he issued a statement yesterday that there's a possibility of negotiations, so he's going to make a decision within two weeks.
He's being cagey about it on purpose.
Here's him jousting with a reporter, CUP3.
Questions about whether you are moving closer or you believe the U.S. is moving closer to striking Iranian nuclear facilities.
Where's your mindset on that?
Can't say that, right?
You don't seriously think I'm going to answer that question.
Will you strike the Iranian nuclear component?
And what time exactly, sir?
Sir, would you strike it?
Would you please inform us so we can be there and watch?
I mean, you don't know that I'm going to even do it.
You don't know.
I may do it.
I may not do it.
I mean, nobody knows what I'm going to do.
I can tell you this, that Iran's got a lot of trouble.
So, you know, I have to say, I think there's some possibility, and I'm not hearing this from a lot of places, so maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.
But I think there's a possibility that Israel has got the means to handle this themselves in some way we haven't really learned about.
They've been reinventing warfare over there.
So we'll see.
Maybe they do, maybe they don't.
But so while this is going on, there's this isolationist cadre of people in MAGA, Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, and JD Vance, who's kind of their guy.
I mean, he's very non-interventionist, though.
I don't know if he's, you know, he's been quite loyal to Trump, and I don't know if he is isolationist.
But I'm really, I just don't think this is a grown-up point of view, okay?
I don't think it's a grown-up point of view that we never do anything for anybody.
These problems are always very difficult.
And the things that the complete isolationists say don't make any sense.
For instance, I think America was crazy to go into World War I.
I think they would have been crazy not to go into World War II.
I mean, eventually, if the whole world is imperialist Nazi Germany and imperialist Japan, they're going to come after us.
Better we fight them while we have allies who are still on their feet and can join in and who want to be free.
You know, it's just crazy to wait until you're surrounded.
That just doesn't make any sense.
That was basically the Swiss philosophy during World War II.
And it would not have lasted if America had not gotten into the war.
So I watch, you know, and JD Vance, I think, has been talking since.
But I know he sometimes is in conference with Tucker Carlson.
I don't like to pick on Tucker Carlson because he's done work that I really liked when he was at Fox.
But the stuff he's saying now doesn't make sense.
It doesn't hold together.
And it strikes me as phony.
You know, it does.
He did this interview with Tucker, with Senator Ted Cruz.
And I'm listening to this, and a lot of people saying, well, this is a good debate between intelligent people.
Now, I'm not going to run down Tucker Carlson's intelligence.
I think Ted Cruz is a very, very intelligent man.
I know him a little, and I know he's incredibly intelligent.
But I just think this conversation was fake on Tucker's part.
Now, listen to a little bit of this.
It's Cut Four.
As a conservative, I assume people act in their rational self-interest.
It's conservative to pay people to spy on you.
It's conservative to recognize that human beings act in their own self-interest, and every one of our friends spies on us.
And I'm not.
Do you like it?
That's my question.
I'm not asking whether they have motive to do it.
Of course they do.
I understand that.
And by the way, I'm not mad at them.
And you're an American lawmaker, so I just want to know, hold on.
I want to know your attitude.
You said that your guiding principle, in fact, the only principle, the only criterion.
I said guiding, the overwhelming.
I wouldn't say only.
Is it in America's interest?
Is it in America's interest for Israel to spy on us, including on the president?
It is in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because we get huge benefits for it.
And you want to see the clarity.
But I just want to stop on the spine for a second.
It takes place, as you know, including on the president of the United States and several precedents.
And I just want to know if that's okay and why is it okay?
Wouldn't an American lawmaker say to a client state, you're not allowed to spy on us.
I'm sorry.
I know why you want to.
I'm not mad at you, but you're not allowed to.
Sure.
And I don't care for it.
I don't want to be spied on by you.
Is that it's kind of weird not to say that.
Really, all countries spy on each other.
And this, you remember how he slipped in a client state?
Israel is not really a client state in that they have to do everything that we say they do.
We're not Rome.
You know, I mean, they are allies.
They depend on us for arms, probably too much as far as I'm concerned for their sake.
But still, they're not a client state.
And everybody spies on everybody else.
So you can say don't spy on us.
We have said don't spy, but they're going to do it.
And that's all Cruz is saying.
I just found that so fraught.
You know, there's this comedian who I find does an excellent Tucker Cross imitation named Ami Kozak.
And listen to his imitation because it's dead on, not just in terms of the sound.
I mean, he does a good, solid imitation of Tucker, but the way Tucker behaves during these conversations, and he's talking about abortion, which is important.
I'll get back to that in a minute.
But just listen to Ami Kozak imitate Tucker Carlson, Cut Five.
I certainly can understand why a woman, any woman, would want to be in charge of her own health care and what goes on inside her body.
I certainly can understand that.
I'd want any woman in my life certainly to make those decisions.
But I don't really know what that means, and I don't want to be involved in that.
Well, do you think it's a human life or a clump of cells?
Well, how many cells are in a clump?
What?
How many cells are in a clump?
How many, what are you talking about?
How could you not know?
I'm sorry, I don't know.
How could you not know the answer to that?
Wouldn't you want to know the answer to how many cells are in a clump?
I don't see how that's the issue.
That's not.
I would think you'd want to know how many cells are in a clump if we're talking about a clump of cells.
What's relevant about it?
It seems important.
It seems really important.
It seems personal, actually.
I'm still very confused as to where you stand.
But at the end of the day, I'm pro-life and pro-choice.
I combine them.
Lois, I'm pro-Lois.
I mean, that is what Tucker sounds like to me.
You know, it's like how many, you know, he said to Ted Cruz, what's the population of Iran?
Cruz didn't know the population.
I would think you would want to know.
And you think, yeah, what are the names of the people in Iran?
You know, no, that's not, you know, the guy is not there for a quiz.
He's there to tell you what the policy of the United States should be.
And the reason I wanted to play the cut about abortion, which I thought was very clever of Ami Kozak to do that, is abortion like this decision is simple but hard.
There's only one question in the divorce debate, only one.
Is the fetus a human being?
And the answer is yes.
There is no other answer.
That's the answer.
So you're not allowed to solve your personal problems by killing a human being.
That's it, right?
Everything else is rationalization.
If he just doesn't feel pain or it's not fully developed or it's my body or woman's rights, all that stuff, it's a human being.
You can't kill it to make your life easier.
That's simple, but it's hard because it brings true pain and true trouble into people's lives, good people's lives, bad people.
It doesn't matter.
It just really causes true pain, unwanted pregnancy.
That's how moral thinking works.
Morality, that's what makes morality hard.
It is oftentimes easy to see what's right to do.
Why Moral Choices Are Hard 00:06:34
It is frequently hard to do what's right to do.
I worked in Hollywood, right?
There are many, many times when you work in Hollywood when you find that if you just betray your colleagues or lie or break your word or throw your principles under the bus, you will make a fortune and get a good credit and get projects that you like.
And if you don't, you'll lose those big projects and you won't be as successful.
It's hard to do the right thing.
And so in this situation, the same thing is true.
There's one question.
There's only one question.
Is Trump right?
Can we allow Iran to have a nuke?
And by the way, it's not just a nuke.
They're also building missiles that can reach America.
And I'm not saying this is going to happen on Thursday or anything like that.
I'm just saying eventually they will be a threat to America, whom they hate as much, if not more, than they hate Israel.
It is a pillar of their country that they are going to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
But the genocide of the Jews is only the beginning because then they come after the great Satan, who I thought was Barack Obama, but no, it turns out to be the entire USA.
So in the same way, I think it's obvious you can't kill your unborn child.
I think it's obvious we can't let Iran have a nuke.
Trump is right.
So do we bomb them or not?
Do we go in there if they need us?
We don't know if they need us, but if they need us, do we go in there with the bunker busting bombs or not?
Well, there's one guy who has the best intelligence in the country at his fingertips, and that's Trump.
That's the commander-in-chief.
So the real question is, do we trust Trump to make the decision?
And I say yes.
And why?
It's not because, oh, Trump, Trump, I love Trump.
You know, I'm going to trust him to do whatever he does.
Absolutely not.
I'm much, much more cynical than that.
I trust a politician when his interests are the right ones.
You know, when his interests are the ones that align with what I think are the interests that are best for the country.
Trump doesn't like war.
He's not, you know, doesn't want to be in war.
He certainly doesn't want to be in these George W. Bush forever wars.
He doesn't want to, he's not talking about regime change.
He likes being a peacemaker.
He likes the idea of himself as a peacemaker.
So he won't let Iran get a bomb.
So if he thinks it's time, so if he thinks it's time to bomb their sites, I think it probably is.
I'm going to go with him on this one.
And I think this is what Trump's idea, when he looks at these MAGA people telling him, you're not MAGA if you believe in being part of this war.
This is what he said about this.
This is gut six.
Very simple.
If they think that it's okay for Iran to have a nuclear weapon, then they should oppose me.
But nobody thinks it's okay.
People that don't want, I don't want to fight either.
I'm not looking to fight.
But if it's a choice between fighting and him having a nuclear weapon, you have to do what you have to do.
Maybe we won't have to fight.
Don't forget, we haven't been fighting.
We add a certain amount of genius to everything, but we haven't been fighting at all.
Israel's done a very good job of that.
But we'll see what happens.
The bottom line is they can't have nuclear.
You know, and this has been the Trump doctrine all along.
You know, he understands, I think we all have to understand that in order to keep the peace so we can have trade, so we can have peace, so we don't get surrounded, we have friends around the world or allies.
You know, they're not friends in the sense that they do whatever we want or that they always do what we like.
They're friends in the sense that they're our allies.
We have an alliance with them that we expect to stand up.
We expect Japan to be a bulwark against China.
We expect Britain to be a bulwark against invasions of Europe and other countries to defend Europe.
And we expect Israel to keep the people who want to kill us from taking over the entire Middle East.
And sometimes we have to help those countries.
We don't want to get in forever wars, but sometimes we have to help our friends just like in life.
It's just like in real life.
Sometimes our friends can't do things alone and we're the big guys, so we have to help them.
I don't want to go fly to every corner of the world to impose our will on other countries to turn over regimes.
I don't want to do that.
We're not in the Cold War anymore.
I want to hunker down so we can build up our resources to take on China when China comes, which it will.
So I think that that's the big idea.
But still, sometimes you have to help out.
And Trump has done this.
He took out the ISIS caliphate.
Remember, he went in and did that, and we all cheered for him.
He did that.
He killed the Iranian terrorist Qasim Soleimani while the press was saying, oh, World War III.
But no, he just did it.
And that was the end of that.
And all of this, you know, hating the Jew stuff just goes to show you, you know, that the people, you know, the people whose answer to everything is you're in the pay of IPAC.
You know, I wish I were in the pay of IPAC.
In fact, if IPAC is listening, please, I'll send you where to send the checks.
But all these people, you're a Jew or you know a Jew or Ben Shapiro is a Jew.
Now, I'll admit, Ben Shapiro, obviously an evil Jew.
Just the other day, he snuck past the Swiss guard at the Vatican, rushed in on the Pope and forced him to wear a yarmulke.
So there's a picture of them, both of them wearing a yarmulke.
So now, you know, the Pope is Jewish, which is a disaster for the Catholic, or a big improvement for the Catholics, I'm not sure.
But no, look, seriously, you know, this is what the Trump doctrine has been all along.
And I think it's the right doctrine.
It's realism.
It's just realism.
You know, it's funny.
This country has been so rich, so strong, so long that we don't really understand realism.
We don't even think in realistic terms.
The discussions on Axe and on other platforms are not discussion.
When people say, debate me, bro, most of the time, people are talking such crap that you can't debate them because you can't bring them down to the real level.
Israel, whom I greatly admire, the people are acting with incredible courage, incredible intelligence, incredible creativity in defending themselves.
They've changed the nature of the entire region.
This little tiny shoebox of a country has changed everything through their courage.
They live in a win or die reality.
And so I look at Trump and I think he is more realistic than guys like Bannon and Tucker.
And I think he is the realist in the room.
And I trust him to make this call so that we don't die, but win.
We're going to win so much.
We're going to win at every level.
We're going to win economically.
We're going to win with the economy.
We're going to win with military.
We're going to win with healthcare and for our veterans.
We're going to win with every single facet.
My, oh my, what a wonderful day.
We're going to win so much, you may even get tired of winning.
Winning Across The Board 00:02:34
Yay!
You'll say, please, please, it's too much winning.
We can't take it anymore.
I feel pretty.
Oh, so pretty.
I feel pretty and witty and gay.
We have to keep winning.
We have to win more.
We're going to wait more.
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Chapter 2, The Tennessee Walsh.
Remember that song.
I have to explain my chapter titles today.
That song I was dancing with.
I was dancing with my darling to the Tennessee Walsh.
So this is the Tennessee Walsh, because I got to pay some props to Matt Walsh, this Tennessee law banning child minor mutilation in the name of this, sometimes called gender-affirming care, which is, as far as I'm concerned, is like calling the Holocaust Old Testament Bible studies, gender-affirming care.
Gender Affirming Mutilation 00:06:11
It's like it's child mutilation.
It is a Nazi-level atrocity.
And Tennessee, because, you know, partly because of Walsh exposing what was going on in Vanderbilt, heading up rallies, the work he did, his documentary, What is a Woman? Tennessee passed a law banning it.
It was taken to the Supreme Court.
It was upheld six to three by the Supreme Court.
And look, we're talking about foreign policy.
Obviously, Walsh and I disagree on foreign policy, but Walsh has repeatedly said that he doesn't really care about foreign policy and doesn't know that much about it.
So I agree with him on that part.
But if ever a man was doing God's work in this field on the trans issue, it's him.
And his movies have been terrific.
I really loved his movies.
However, however, leaving Walsh out of it, not to diminish the victory in the court.
I was reading the decisions and talking about America being a country detached from reality where abundance and safety that has gone on so long has made us live in our heads in this genuinely bizarre, almost mentally ill way so many times.
The way they were talking about this, you know, John Roberts wrote the decision, the Chief Justice, he said, this case carries with it the weight of fierce scientific and policy debates about the safety, efficacy, and propriety of medical treatments in an evolving field.
It's not an evolving field.
This is an act of madness.
And the dissenting justices who are the usual suspects were like, you know, oh, this saves lives.
There's absolutely no proof that this is a good thing for minors and they're clearly not able to make the decisions.
And they had to weave around this Bostock decision, which said that Title VII forbidding sex discrimination in employment included trans and gays.
So why?
Because it banned sex discrimination.
So if I walk in wearing a dress and you say you're fired because you can't come in here wearing a dress, it's only because I'm a man.
You wouldn't fire a woman for wearing a dress.
That's nuts.
I'm sorry.
That's nuts because there are men and women in the world.
I mean, why can't we just say that?
Why can't we just say, instead of living in this fantasy, why can't we just say there are two sexes, there are men and women, and through all of human history in every civilization, they have dressed differently and they've been represented.
They have had different roles.
They have taken different roles in their society.
That is a human universal.
You know, I was watching Pete Hegseth was being questioned about trans in the military.
Let me just see if I know who it was.
It was the, it was Sarah Jacobs, Congresswoman Sarah J. Jacobs from Oregon, was questioning him about this.
This is a cut nine.
You are the one injecting culture wars into the military, and it's at the detriment of our military readiness and national security.
Now, General Kane, I'd like to turn to you.
So to be clear, these are men who think they're women.
These are women.
I'm happy to educate you on trans issues at a time.
What we've identified is that there's mental health issues in the belief system.
I'd like to turn to general women are detrimental to readiness.
And that's the determination that we've made and that we stand behind.
First of all, just the pomposity and arrogance.
I'm happy to educate you.
You know, get stuffed, lady.
And that's the first thing.
And good for Hagseth.
This is, if you're a man and you think you're a woman, you are wrong.
And therefore, you are deluded.
And therefore, you have mental problems.
If I read a book, there's a really interesting book called Three Christs of Ypsilanti.
It's about three men in a Michigan, an Ypsilanti, Michigan mental institution, all of whom think they're Jesus and how they interact with each other because each one thinks he's Jesus Christ.
Now, listen, I don't hate them for thinking they're Jesus Christ, but I'm not going to pray to them either because they're not, right?
They are deluded.
They are having a delusion.
And the only reason we can live in delusion in this country is because we've just been so safe and so rich for so long that there's no consequences to these delusions.
It's the same thing that's happening with these protests, these riots that are mostly peaceful.
Why are there riots at all?
Why is a single business burning?
And they're not mostly peaceful, obviously.
If I punch my wife once a year, it's not a mostly peaceful marriage, then I'm a wife abuser.
If you burn a building, it's a riot.
And I think I ask myself, why are all these protests taking place?
Are we in the midst of some grave injustice like Jim Crow or slavery or something where we need to take to the streets and burn things down?
No, we're not.
That's a fantasy.
That's a fantasy.
On the view, I think it was Whoopi Goldberg said black people here are treated worse than people in Iran.
And I thought, I would like you to go to Iran for two years and come back and say that because how dare you use your power on TV to just spread these delusions.
When I see these guys, one of the mayoral candidates, this mayoral race in New York City, I just want all my friends and relatives who live in New York City to pack up, to get an ark, build an ark, fill it with animals two by two, and sail the hell up the Hudson River and get out of New York City.
Because the people who are running for mayor there are out of their minds.
One mayoral candidate is guy Comptroller Brad Lander.
He was arrested by federal agents.
You know, Homeland Security officials said he tried to get in, interfere with their escorting some illegals.
Senator Alex Padilla, we talked about last week, was arrested because he forced his way past some police to get a Christian gnome.
And they're actually saying the governor of New York says, if they'll arrest him, who won't they arrest?
Well, how about Donald Trump?
You know, I mean, how about the fact that they were persecuting politicians for nothing?
But these guys are actually breaking law.
And why?
What is the crisis that people who poured into this country by the millions poured into this country by the millions?
You know, last month, zero people came into this country illegally.
Zero people as opposed to 60, over 60,000 people in the same month last year.
I mean, that's, how can you say these people should not be removed?
How can you say a country has no right to borders?
Lost Brain Capacity 00:15:54
You can only say it because you're living in this globalist fantasy, this fantasy of world peace through empire.
That's what it would be if we were globalists.
It's just somebody's imposing their will on everybody.
But how can we think that you don't need a border or that you can defund the police?
We think these things because we can because of the abundance and safety in this country has taken us out of reality.
Now, I always talk about the arts.
I think the arts are so important, not just as a means of communicating our souls to one another, but also they reveal who we are and where we are spiritually as a civilization.
That's why I write books like Kingdom and of Cain and The Truth and Beauty, because I think the big story of Western civilization is the slow draining away of Christian faith from 1500 on.
And I think that that's what our arts represent.
And they tell us about it and warn us about it.
So maybe we can change that, right?
That's why I write these books in the first place.
But I've been looking at some arts that tell us some things that are both disturbing, but also very interesting about our situation now.
And I want to turn and talk about those because they're genuinely new and genuinely original and genuinely revealing.
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Chapter three, IE.
I have to explain.
I have to explain all my chapter titles, but they're so clever they were worth it.
When I was a little boy, I love the magazine called Creepy Magazine.
And Creepy Magazine, there used to be these magazines like Tales from the Crypt, but they were so disgusting.
The comic books, they were so disgusting that Congress held hearings and they were basically intimidating into shutting down.
They were reborn as Creepy Magazine, which lasted for a very little time, but it was a comic book of horror stories.
And every story was almost the same.
In one version or another, there would be a vampire terrorizing a village or a werewolf terrorizing a village or something like that.
And the handsome mayor would organize a hunt for the vampire or the werewolf.
And in the last panel, it would turn out that the mayor was the vampire or the werewolf.
And he would turn on the beautiful heroine who had these, always had these delightfully large breasts.
And he would attack her and she would scream, AI.
And IE was spelled AI-E-E-E-E.
So I want to talk about AI horror stories that have been appearing on Instagram.
And I have to thank my son, Spencer Claven, no relation, for bringing these works to my attention because he's somewhat younger than I am and he finds stuff on Instagram that I don't find.
But it does, but they do fulfill a prediction I've made many times on the show that AI and other technology would revivify visual arts by making them, by taking them away from the corporations and democratizing the culture that made them.
So we no longer had to listen to this monocultural baloney that has destroyed Hollywood.
But anyone will be able to make a film.
Now, these are very primitive versions of that.
But still, I've also said that short entertainments in a world with a quickly dwindling attention span will also be important.
That will tell stories that are one minute long or two minutes long.
And that's what these are.
So these are on Instagram.
These are short horror stories made with AI images.
And they're barely animated and they have a narration.
But I picked a couple.
Spencer sent me a bunch and I picked a couple of the ones that I thought were the best.
And this one, this is, you know, it's about a minute and a half long.
It's from a site called storydj.tales, storydj.tales.
And it's, you have just gotten a job at a laundromat, and here is the instructional video.
There's cut 10.
Good news.
You have been hired as the new night attendant at Sunfresh Suds, a late-night laundromat located at the end of Milletown Road, just past the abandoned theme park and the mural nobody remembers painting.
Your duties are simple.
Keep the soap dispensers full, clean out the machines, not the floor, and most importantly of all, follow these rules.
One, never touch the clothes in machine six, even if they have been spinning all night.
They're beyond cleaning, and you don't want their owner to come and pick them up.
Two, if you see wet footprints leading into the back room between 3.11 a.m. and 3.47 a.m., check the CCTV.
If the footprints belong to another version of you, hide in the locker room until 5.03 a.m.
3.
When machine 4 displays, error code, weep, at 1.11 a.m., restart it.
You may hear voices from inside, but let it finish its full cycle.
You don't want what's in there to get out.
4.
If a flyer advertising a lost dog named Milo appears on a notice board along with a reward, destroy it immediately.
There is no dog.
Milo died in 1999.
And remember, management will not cover replacement uniforms, so keep yours clean.
Good luck.
I love some of that stuff.
The mural nobody remembers painting, the dead dog.
And I love the random numbers, the times are like 1.11, you know, 3.13 or whatever.
Stephen King does that.
There's something very frightening about numbers being used in an irrational way.
Let's take a look at just a little bit of one from Unearthly AI.
This is a guy there doing experiments on angels, and the angels are the first one to speak as Cut 11.
I love you!
We have ran a plethora of tests on the angel, and from our results, it appears to be hyper-intelligent.
So far, any attempts of measuring the full extent of its intellect have yielded less than ideal results, as the subject seems to exceed the limits of all available tests.
Save me?
No.
Gonna do experiments on angels, even though she's crying out to be safe.
Anyway, what I love about these is there's sort of a spin-off development of certain storytelling in certain puzzle video games, like Braid, Inside, Limbo, even The Room a little bit.
These are stories that depend on visuals and gameplay to involve you in narratives that are incomplete.
You have to sort of fill, the viewer has to sort of fill in, you know, what's going on at the laundromat?
What is happening in this, you know, in this laboratory?
And we don't always find out the entire story.
We fill things in, and that means we automatically try to make sense of what looks like a series of random warnings in the laundromat.
We sometimes try to think what is going on.
Sometimes the stories that we make out of these are more successful than others, but somehow the fact that we have to fill them in adds to the eeriness of them and adds to your sense that you're not quite in control.
And I think that there's a reason this is important right now.
It illustrates a truth that is always true, that is part of the human condition, but has been underscored and magnified by the internet, which is that as much information as we gather, we are always filling in blanks.
This is called confabulation.
There's an actual word for it.
There's two books that cover this that I've read.
One is by, they're both by neuro scientists.
One is by a guy named Michael Gaziniga, who wrote The Consciousness Instinct, and the other is by this guy whose fame is rising named Ian McGilchrist, who wrote The Matter with Things, which is this very long book, which I read this year.
He's going to come on the show next month.
I'm really looking forward to talking to him.
He's going to come on the interview.
And McGilchrist has this theory that the right brain, which is the gestalt brain, is the brain that puts things together into generalized concepts and sees the big picture, as it were.
I think that's probably the best word for it.
And then the left brain theorizes and solves problems and just focuses on these physical things that it does, and it eliminates that greater sense of reality.
And what McGilchrist says is that Western civilization has flipped the script so that the right brain should be in charge, is in fact under the sway of the left brain.
So the left brain might know how to fix the car, but it's the right brain that gives you the experience of driving in the car.
And so obviously the full experience of life is being lost to this kind of theoretical experience.
And the thing is, and people have damaged to their right hemisphere.
The left hemisphere basically comes up with a theory of the limited things that it sees, because with the right hemisphere gone, it's not seeing everything.
And the left hemisphere will come up with a story about what it's seeing.
And it cannot be argued out of that story, even if it is informed that it can't, that it isn't seeing things.
So it will come up with a theory, you know, of life, like the Jews are behind all the evil.
And when you say, you know, that really doesn't make any sense, it will stick to that theory no matter what.
So that's confabulation.
So we have, we are in this situation always where we have a certain amount of information, but we don't have all the information.
We start to put together narratives.
And those narratives, even if they're untrue, we stick to them, we cling to them because we're not getting a full gestalt.
And this has happened, you know, there is no God is another one.
You know, it's very hard for people to talk and think as if there were a God now because we have lost.
I think we have lost some of the capacity of that part of our brain.
Now, I have a, I'm going to ask McGill Christ about this because I think focusing on the brain may be a mistake.
I think it's just part of the human condition that this is the way when we lose our faith.
It's not that we lose our faith because our brains aren't working.
It's because our brains aren't working because we lose our faith.
That's the way I see it.
But the internet magnifies this because we're getting so many pieces of information that essentially we're getting no information at all.
So we have all this information and the left brain or whatever, that narrow way of thinking, that narrow theoretical way of thinking can confabulate stories out of this.
And once we have those stories, we believe in them.
And you see it in the media all the time.
The media will say, you know, if Trump imposes tariffs, then there'll be inflation.
And I'll say, well, wait, maybe he's just negotiating.
And then Trump will say, okay, you did what I want you to do, so I'm not going to put on tariffs.
And the media will say, oh, he backed down.
In other words, they'll stick to their story, even though what has been proven is that my story was the correct one.
My story that he was negotiating was the correct one.
They say he's backing down.
I said, no, that's the way negotiations work.
You pull off when you get what you want.
So I believe my personal belief about this is that because God is the core of reality, and because we've lost our faith in God, and faith is the evidence of things unseen, faith gives you the power to see what cannot be seen.
I think that that is absolutely true.
So we've lost the power to see reality.
I think we've lost the power to see reality.
And I think it's driving us crazy.
I think that basically modernity from about 1500 on is the story of mankind going increasingly insane.
And these little movies, some of these video games as well, I think they're capturing something, this sense of eeriness you get when you have a series of facts that you see, a narrow series of facts.
You form a story out of that, but things keep happening that don't really fit in.
You know, who drew the mural that nobody remembers drawing?
You know, who made that coincidence in your life that you met your wife and she turned out to be the love of your life?
Where did that come from?
It's the sense of eeriness, that things are not real, that reality is not quite real.
And I think because we have lost our faith, that sense is increasing.
And because the internet is giving us all these facts, but no information, I think it's getting worse or worse.
And that's what I think the arts are telling us.
And so I think we have to start thinking.
The big project that I think we face, and I think especially people who are much younger, 25, is how are we going to learn to see again?
It is not going to be just by following the catechism.
It's not going to be, I mean, I think we should all go back to our churches, but I think that we're going to have to find out new ways of thinking about old truths so that we can experience them again and know them again.
And that's what I want to talk about in the final chapter.
There has been some concerning research about the true safety of the abortion pill that is worth discussing.
A recent report suggests that serious adverse effects from the abortion pill may be more common than previously understood, potentially affecting around 11% of patients, according to the findings.
Given that the abortion pill now accounts for about 60% of all abortions in the U.S., and with roughly a million procedures annually, this could impact tens of thousands of women each year.
This raises important questions about how we approach reproductive health care.
Organizations like the Pre-Born Network are taking a different approach.
They reported helping over 67,000 women last year by providing comprehensive support that addresses both physical and emotional needs while also offering spiritual guidance through their faith-based perspective.
What's interesting is they're finding that when women have the opportunity to see an ultrasound and hear their baby's heartbeat, it significantly increases the likelihood they'll choose to continue their pregnancy.
They've structured their programs so that a single ultrasound costs just $28 and $140 can help support five women and their babies through their decision-making process.
To support Preborn's important work, you can donate by texting baby to pound250 or visit preborn.com slash clavin.
That's pre-born.com slash clavin.
All contributions are tax-deductible.
Final chapter, Touching Grass.
So what do you do?
How do you start to train the minds, your mind, so that you can see reality again?
Because reality has a spiritual component.
One of the things that's really interesting about reading scientists like Gazanier Gazanika, I think it's pronounced, and McGill Christ and another guy, Louis Sass, who's more of a psychiatrist, but still has a very scientific aspect, is they're starting to say, you know, we have to start thinking in terms of the spirit, not just the body.
Training Mind for Reality 00:09:31
Let me read you something that was in the Wall Street Journal, very short sentence from the Wall Street Journal this week about a therapist whose dog died and she talks about the fact that dogs are healthy for us.
And she says her name is Erica Kamasar and she recommends dogs to her clients or patients who are anxious or unhappy.
And this is what she says.
Affection toward a dog can raise levels of oxytoxin, the love hormone, and reduce cortisol, the stress hormone.
So the more you love your pup, the less stressed and happier you feel.
And when you say that, to me, it sounds like you think that the hormones cause the happiness, but the hormones communicate the feeling of happiness that has been caused by loving the dog.
You understand the difference, right?
that what she is saying is, I mean, look, don't get me wrong, I love dogs.
I mean, I think that God was at the top of his game when he made dogs and then he got cocky.
You know, I thought, I think God went, well, if I can make a dog, I can do anything.
You're like, no, no, stop.
But still, I love dogs, but an affection toward dogs, loving a dog can really make you happy.
But the chemicals, it's not just a chemical chain reaction, fur, flesh, chemicals, an inevitable thing.
It is a spiritual experience that you're having.
You're having, nobody knows, nobody can solve the problem of how flesh thinks, how meat thinks, how matter thinks.
Nobody knows anything about that, not a single thing.
And they know some of the mechanics of it, but they don't understand where that transition comes.
So it is right, I think, to say, no, I am a person who loves and love makes you happy.
Of course it does.
Why shouldn't it?
It is the best thing in the world.
So how do we start to see that again?
Only if you, if you say to me, I had an adrenaline rush and therefore I was excited.
And I say, no, you were excited and therefore you had an adrenaline rush, right?
Only the second story makes sense.
If you think it through, I mean, sit for a couple of minutes quietly and think it through and you will see that it does not make sense, that the adrenaline is the source of the excitement.
The adrenaline is the source of the physical feeling of excitement, which if you didn't have, you know, your spirit would not be communicating to your body.
So the answer to this rampant, I mean, this is confabulation.
This is telling a story about happiness.
The story is that chemicals pass through your body and then you become happy.
And Yuval Harari believes this story.
He says, you know, winning a football game doesn't make you happy.
It's the hormones that are pumped through your body that make you happy.
Well, no, it's the hormones that allow you to feel the fleshly experience of happiness, but you're having that happiness otherwise.
And I've quoted before a relative of mine who went on antidepressants and she said to me, you're still depressed.
You just can't feel it anymore.
That was a very wise thing to say.
She was still depressed, but the pills stopped her from feeling it by blocking the chemical causes of the depression.
The answer to confabulation is experience, is praxis, individual practices and actions that connect you to the spiritual world.
And this is the whole point of the second part of Kingdom of Cain is about practices, art, therapy, rituals like communion, which teaches your body that bread and wine are not just bread and wine, that they contain the body and blood of God, which they do, I mean, which they obviously do when you think about it.
All creation contains the mark, the handprint of the Creator.
And that's what you're trying to learn to experience it that way.
Because people can tell you that.
People can say they experience God, but they're not always doing it and they're not always seeing what's right in front of them.
Or they would react very differently to a lot of the events that happen in life.
You know, I have this sub stack with Spencer, the New Jerusalem, and I made a comment about what I can see as the fantastic mental illness going on.
I was being political and said on the left, when these guys go out and they protest against no kings, like I was joking about in the opening, when there are no kings, you know, when you think, well, we won, the kings are gone.
And I said, how do we stem the tide of madness?
And a lot of the commentators, especially the women, interestingly enough, because women actually get this.
Men are the ones who think more in global terms than women who tend to think more in personal terms.
And a lot of the women said, do this, do that.
This is how you stem the tide of madness.
Have dinner at least, have a meal at least once a day with your family playing beautiful music.
That's what you should do.
Go to the beach and look at the stars.
That's what you should do.
Enjoy art.
You know, perform rituals.
This is, you know, go to church.
These are the things that you should do.
And when people say, you know, when sociologists say, oh, you know, marriage and religion and patriotism make you happy, which is true, they do.
But it's not marriage that makes you happy.
It's being with your wife and loving somebody and your husband and loving somebody over a period of time and sharing life with them and building a life with them and becoming one flesh.
That's what makes you happy.
It's the practices of marriage.
It's the things you do.
It's not the word marriage.
It's not being married.
It's the practices of marriage that make you happy.
And the same is true of religion.
It's not sitting around going, I'm spiritual.
You know, it's going to church and going through the rituals and saying the liturgies that make you feel God is present.
And after a while, you start to find, I mean, I have found this over the course of my prayer life, which is about since, let's see, it's now about 25 years old, my prayer life.
I have found that my prayer life has totally transformed me and given me a trust in God that I simply did not have before.
I could have said it.
I could have willed it.
I did will it.
But it's only now, after a long period of time, that my body is trained to feel it.
And this is why it's so interesting that if you listen to most really good conservative thinkers, guys like Ben, if you listen to a guy like Ben, when he looks for the answers to the problems that face us, he starts to get personal.
He starts to say, well, you should live in a community with like-minded people or you should make sure you don't have children out of wedlock.
He doesn't say, oh, we need to pass this law.
That's the way mad people think.
That's the way crazy people think.
I'm going to change, I'm going to impose this on the whole world and then everyone will be happy.
Same people think like, I am going to do this and then I will be happy, which is why I feel that Christianity is not a world philosophy.
It's not a political program.
It's a personal connection with God.
And that personal connection comes about by the things you do, by praxis, by touching grass, by going to church, through rituals, prayers, gathering with others who also are in a unique individual experience with God.
This is the thing.
The trick to being a free man and a happy man is being individualistic without being an individualist.
I have a personal, unique relationship with God.
I gather every Sunday with other people who also have a personal, unique experience with God.
I don't come up with ideas that are going to transform America, but within America, I might come up with an idea or I might come up with a way to live that is going to transfer me.
You know, you can teach your body to love.
You can teach your body to love.
One of the reasons I'm so big on sex, and I know you laugh, you think, well, everybody's kind of big on sex.
But one of the reasons I believe that marriages, if there's no disease preventing it, that in marriage you should continue to have sex is that's a practice.
That is a practice.
I know it sounds funny, but it is.
It's a practice for intimacy, for communicating intimacy, one body to another.
We are, our souls experience the world through our bodies, and that is one of the purposes of sex.
And when you have sex with a number of strangers, you damage your ability to do that.
When you look at porn, you completely poison your ability to do that.
But, you know, so much, so much of what we're doing in religion is training our desires, not other people's desires.
We're not telling other people how to train their desires.
We're telling us how to train our desires so that all our desires are essentially a desire for God.
And I believe sex isn't part of that.
I believe kindness is a part of that.
Politeness is a part of that.
Charity is a part of that.
That's one of the reasons that Jesus says, give money to the poor, but the poor you'll always have with you.
He's not telling you to give it to alleviate poverty, although it obviously alleviates the poverty of the person you give the money for.
He's telling it to you so that you become charitable, so that you learn to love your neighbor, which is also learning to love God.
So I think this is why good, smart conservative commentators are frequently talking about personal remedies to large situations, to large problems, and why crazy leftists are frequently talking about taking over the government so it can impose these answers on everybody.
And that, I think, is what we are dealing with in this fight for reality.
I think the fight for reality is going to take place at your house.
It's going to take place at my house.
And if it takes place at enough houses, ultimately, we will make America real again.
Personal Remedies Over Government Solutions 00:02:05
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You'd Be Surprised 00:05:48
Clavin Clapbacks.
You don't know that I'm going to even do it.
You don't know.
I may do it.
I may not do it.
I mean, nobody knows what I'm going to do.
ClavinClapbacks at dailywire.com.
We love hearing from you.
It's Clavin with a K and clapbacks with a K. Clavinclapbacks at dailywire.com.
You can ask personal questions.
You can ask political questions.
You can ask religious questions.
We will answer them if we can.
From Zachary, as a young Christian man of 27, I've been praying for a future wife and family, but I've realized that my longing has started to drift into idolatry, placing this dream above God himself.
I know marriage is a good and godly pursuit, yet my emotions have made it harder to keep Christ at the center of my heart.
How can I rightly order this desire, pursuing biblical manhood and preparation for marriage without letting eclipse my devotion to God?
Well, first of all, you're not devoted to, it is idolatry because it's an idol in your head.
This woman that you're dreaming about is you.
I mean, right?
Your imagination, everything in your imagination is you.
And so I'm not saying that you're a woman.
saying that this is a longing that you have that you are creating a woman out of.
You are fashioning a woman in the image of your longing.
And what you want to do is find a real woman, which is, you know, it's much more difficult to love a person than it is to love a imaginary person or a dog.
Dogs are easy because they will love you no matter what you are.
But you want to find a real person, and that's how you order your erotic love toward God, by loving a person who's going to have needs and desires and feelings that you have to react to.
And that's this, the dream you're having is just a dream.
And, you know, I mean, there's nothing wrong with having a daydream of the girl that you want to meet, but it can become obsessive.
And, you know, then it becomes a kind of romantic pornography.
It's not erotic pornography, but it's romantic pornography.
So yeah, you know, I think you should focus a lot more on finding the real girl because that's much easier, much more difficult.
I mean, this is from John.
I wanted to write to you to let you know that I appreciate the grace with which you discuss and treat gay people.
I am a 30-year-old gay man.
I've always been more inclined toward traditional values and I'm turned off by the depravity that often exists within gay culture.
That said, being gay is quite lonely and isolating existence.
I've never been comfortable with it.
You'd be surprised at the lengths I've gone to try and not be this way.
I would not be surprised.
Yet I still want to have a chance at living a life that is fulfilling and has some sense of meaning.
The heartbreak and emptiness I carry at the thought that the rest of my life might be alone without a spouse or kids to call my own and share life with is quite profound.
I want to be a father, but wouldn't subject a tile to a life without a mother.
I want to have a partner.
That same-sex relationship feels like something I wouldn't be able to succeed at.
As someone who has a gay son, no relation, and also seems to see humanity for what it is on this side of heaven.
I'm curious to hear if you have any words of wisdom.
Take care, John.
Well, listen, I can't, I won't tell you how to live.
I will not tell you how to live.
And you have absolutely no obligation to anyone who does tell you how to live.
And those people who think I should tell people what to do, I can tell you what to do, but I won't because that's how the kind of nice person I am.
And I also have never been in your situation.
I can tell you some things that I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do if I were in your situation.
I wouldn't adopt a child.
I've always thought that the argument that being adopted by gay people is better than being adopted by abusive people is spacious, not because it can't be true.
And I'm not saying that gay people haven't adopted children to good effect, because that does happen.
But I think that there are so many people who are desperate to adopt a child who are married men and women that I think they should take priority.
I think this is the best thing for a child.
And I wouldn't want to get in the way of that if I were gay.
So I just, I would not do that.
The question of what I would do romantically is really difficult for me to answer.
And I'll tell you why.
My marriage is a central blessing of my life.
And, you know, my wife pretends that being married to me is a central blessing of her life.
And I appreciate that.
But it is such a, romantic love is such a consolation for the difficulties of life, which includes sickness and death.
You know, they're pretty difficult, those difficulties.
And they are an excellent training ground for love.
I don't think I would have come to know God if I hadn't known love first.
I think I knew love and then started to think about where love came from.
And so I can't tell you what to do about that.
I can tell you this.
If you should try and figure this out.
If you feel that God does not want you in a gay relationship, then don't do that.
Do not do that.
You know, Jesus said, if your eye offends you, pluck it out.
What he meant by that is if a portion of yourself wants something that it shouldn't have or does something that it shouldn't do, then you don't need to pluck out your eye, but you should stop doing that thing.
And he said, if, if it does.
And so you have to decide, you know, you have to decide.
Nobody can decide this for you.
You have to decide if that is going to degrade you, if it's going to take you away from your relationship with God, if this is a way you cannot order your desires toward God through that relationship, then you're going to have to live with the sorrow of that and find other consolations for life.
There are other consolations.
People have lived in a celibate way and had complete fulfilling lives.
It is difficult.
It is a challenge, but you have to decide that that's what you're going to do and do it.
And if you don't, you know, I certainly am not going to be the one to judge you because I've got judgments to make about myself and they're going to take me the rest of my life, as they would have, which would be true if I were 15 instead of 112.
Deciding Between Paths 00:00:37
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