Lila Rose of Live Action argues the 2022 Roe overturn was a pro-life victory, despite backlash and extreme abortion bans hurting elections—support thrives when leaders like DeSantis and Abbott boldly oppose abortion. She counters Planned Parenthood’s $1.7B fearmongering, exposing abortion’s harms (dismemberment, trauma) while advocating compassionate truth-telling. Blaming declining birth rates on elite women ignores deeper cultural shifts: the sexual revolution and modern feminism devalued motherhood, but policies like Hungary’s tax incentives and Kansas’ "baby Olivia" law could restore dignity to family roles, if younger generations embrace holistic values amid loneliness and isolation. [Automatically generated summary]
Hey everyone, it's Andrew Clavin with this week's interview with the amazing Lila Rose in the Bible, Wisdom Who Lives With God says, those who hate me love death, which tells us a lot about our society, a society that has been killing babies in the womb by the hundreds of thousands a year for a long, long time, where we're no longer having babies to kill.
We obviously have lost our way in some essential way.
And, you know, it has never shocked me that individuals have abortions when they get in trouble.
People do all kinds of things when they get in trouble and they panic and they frequently do things that are wrong.
And I know many good people who have been through that experience and have to live with that ever after.
But it does shock me, it did shock me, when we declared that that was a right, that it was a right to take other people's lives.
I mean, it seems to me that that was one of the ugliest incidents in American history, the Roe v. Wade decision.
And when it was repealed, when I just, it actually made my heart swell when that happened.
And I was on the air at the moment that decision came down.
The first name that came into my mind was Lila Rose, because everybody at the Daily Wire, Ben and Matt and Knowles and me, we've all made speeches about this.
And that is, I think, worthwhile.
And you can find my speech in a pamphlet I put out called The Art of Making Sense.
But Lila Rose dedicated herself to this fight and dedicated live action to this fight and was just an incredible force in just changing the culture so that it became possible to overturn Roe v. Wade.
And I want to talk to her today about where we go from here.
She's the founder and president of Live Action, which is now occupying its time working to defund Planned Parenthood.
She's the author of Fighting for Life, Becoming a Force for Change in a Wounded World.
She's host of the Lila Rose Show, which is a podcast that tackles relationships, faith, culture, and politics.
And I'm going to try not to fawn over you, Lila, but it's wonderful to have you back.
It's good to see you.
How are you?
You are so gracious, Andrew, and too kind.
Thank you.
And I'm delighted to be here.
It's great to talk with you and so grateful for your voice for culture and life on so many issues.
You're like a Gandalf for the movement in many ways.
So thank you so much.
Well, thank you.
Certainly age-wise, I am.
So, you know, obviously Roe v. Wade is overturned, and this is an amazing, amazing victory.
Winning the Pro-Life Narrative00:14:53
But when Republicans kind of overreacted and kind of, they acted like the dog who caught the car and tried to pass laws banning abortions, they were creamed at the ballot box.
And Donald Trump immediately, who has that finger on the pulse of the electorate, immediately kind of backed off.
What do we do?
Where do we go from here?
I think there's first understanding what happened.
Like you said, after Roe v. Wade was overturned, you know, 2022, there's about to be a midterm election.
And there were some big losses.
There were some wins, by the way, in that midterm election.
It wasn't all losses, but there were some big losses.
And what ended up happening by some political leaders like Donald Trump, you know, our president, President Trump, there was a blaming of the pro-life movement for the losses, the pro-life issue for the losses.
And I would push back a little bit against that interpretation because I do think when you look at the midterms, you had really phenomenal wins, you know, in gubernatorial races.
As an example, Governor Ron DeSantis, you know, winning in a landslide, who are very stalwart pro-life governors.
You had Governor Greg Abbott also winning in Texas, you know, in a very hotly contested election, you know, passionately pro-life, you know, passing abortion restrictions on left and right.
So I think this kind of narrative that, well, the pro-life issue is a losing issue, it has taken some hold in the kind of GOP imagination right now, but I would push back against it.
Now, there have been some real challenges in the ballot box when it comes to ballot initiatives.
So separate from races with political candidates, these kind of thumbs up, thumbs down ballot initiatives have had some real other significant losses.
You have to look at the kind of context of what's happening in the state.
But the larger point here is when you look at the larger landscape of politics, life has been and continues to be, I believe, for elected officials a winning issue.
And it's when candidates, I think, back down or they show weakness or compromise on this, like they're almost inauthentic about their own beliefs.
They're afraid to talk about it.
You know how our constituents are.
They smell blood in the water.
They see weakness.
They don't like the inauthenticity.
And so I think that is going to be more of a turnoff in the future for GOP political leaders.
If they show weakness in authenticity, they're compromising because they're afraid of something or afraid of losing.
The more they go that fear route, they're going to get beat.
They're not going to win that way.
So my argument would be just like President Trump has postured himself on many other issues.
If we're willing to have bold, uncompromising leadership on this, it actually is very winsome.
Look at Governor DeSantis in Florida passing the heartbeat law.
People shamed him up and down.
And then he still won his reelection.
And then in addition to that, he was fighting against Amendment 4 in Florida, which was one of the few wins that the pro-life movement had at the ballot box when it comes to ballot initiatives.
And it was because DeSantis made it his issue.
And he and Casey DeSantis went up and down the state of Florida.
They spent money on it fighting back against the pro-abortion extremists who are trying to put abortion into the state constitution of Florida.
And they defeated Amendment 4 in Florida.
But that was only because political leaders were bold and they were fearless and they fought for life.
So my encouragement would be this can be a winning issue.
It really depends on if you're willing to fight, how hard you're willing to fight.
And let's have that posture.
Lives are on the line.
Like you said so eloquently in your opening comments, Andrew, lives are on the line, hundreds of thousands of lives.
There's no more important issue than this one, fighting for our children, fighting for their future.
And so my encouragement would be to the GOP and really any politician is fight for life.
Be cheerfully bold about this.
All the facts, all the truth, all the love is on your side and act like it.
Well, I think that's absolutely great advice.
I am concerned.
I'm concerned about two things.
I'll give them to you one at a time.
That you start out with a society that believes abortion is wrong.
And there's no real disagreement about that.
It's just a cultural fact.
And then you get Roe v. Wade and basically it becomes a human right.
And suddenly you have the people who grew up in a country where nobody would have ever thought it was a human right overreact and they become quite angry and they condemnatory and they use religion.
They throw their Bible at people and it's very off-putting to a generation that has only grown up with Roe v. Wade.
And one of the things I've always admired about you is the fact that you have always been so gracious.
You have never been condemnatory.
You've always been so compassionate to the people that you talk to who are in terrible, terrible trouble and afraid and confused and alone a lot of times.
I'm a little concerned that there was a kind of when Roe v. Wade was overturned, there was a little bit of a bold sort of, you know, we've got you now kind of attitude, which is not taking into account that this is a sad situation for a lot of women to be in trouble.
And I wonder when you say, when you give the advice of being winsome about this, what does that mean?
Can you give me something more?
What does that mean exactly?
It's a very good, a very good point you're making.
And you're right, Andrew.
We're living in what you could call a post-Christian culture.
You know, the America that the baby booners and even the Gen Xers grew up in is very different from the millennial Gen Zer and beyond generations.
And so that's, and I would say a big seismic shift was the sexual revolution, the cultural revolution, sexual revolutions of the 70s, you know, 60s going into the 80s.
And you just saw this kind of upending of the natural order of family life, marriage, obviously abortion.
It just everything seemed to change in just, you know, a decade or two.
So I think that that's all, but I would argue the underlying reasons for that were happening in decades prior and kind of ideologies that were seeping their way into in the American mainstream.
But that being said, winsome.
What does it mean to be winsome?
Listen, I think we need to always posture ourselves with a deep understanding and compassion for how toxic really this issue is.
In, you know, the walking wounded, there are truly millions of women, American women and men who were post-abortive.
And they, even if they're not fully aware of how that impacts them, it does impact them.
And it does impact also their behaviors and their views on this issue.
So yesterday, I had the privilege of sitting down with almost a dozen different people.
I was doing a series of filming for Life Action.
Several of the folks there were, you know, post-abortive.
They had abortion stories sharing how maybe for a decade or two, they just thought, oh, I support abortion.
I'm fine.
I'm okay.
I'm happy with this.
And then it hits them.
Something triggers them, the birth of their first child, meeting someone else's grandchild for the first time and thinking about the child and then the grandchildren maybe they never had.
There's always something that can trigger, right?
And then all of a sudden there's the devastation of realizing I helped end or I encouraged the ending of or I killed my child, right?
And that is, who can handle that?
That is devastating.
So this is the environment we're operating in.
But you zoom back to 2022 and what you're describing about the backlash.
I did see there's always some people who are going to do the Bible something, so to speak, right?
But what I saw more than that, far more than that, was positive celebrations about the fact that pro-life states who've had pro-life laws for decades, but couldn't enforce them because of the overreach of the federal government finally could enforce those laws.
And we saw 40,000 more babies who would have been killed by abortion, but instead were born, born in the year after Roe v. Wade fell.
So that you got to celebrate life, right?
You've got to celebrate that.
But what you also saw, Andrew, to your point, was the pro-abortion side was, and I'm not talking about just your random pro-choice person who doesn't really have a strong opinion on this.
I'm talking about the activists.
I'm talking about Planned Parenthood.
And they're rich.
I mean, Planned Parenthood is a $1.7 billion organization with over a billion dollars in assets.
They're incredibly politically powerful and influential.
They're culturally powerful and influential.
They rallied their troops.
This was their D-Day, right?
So they were like, Roe v. Wade's overturned.
You know, this is a five-alarm fire.
We're going to get everybody together.
They had marches.
They spent hundreds of millions of dollars in advertisements saying women are going to die.
Women are going to be destroyed by this.
By the way, that's not true.
That's a lie.
And we could talk more about that.
But they just fear mongered, fear monger, fear monger, fearmonger.
And they made out the pro-life side.
They're extremists.
They're Bible thumpers.
They hate women.
Again, not true.
It's not true.
And so that was a prevailing narrative for a hot second.
And we still have to push back against it.
It still kind of tries to rise up as a prevailing narrative.
So that's what we're dealing with, right?
So it's very easy to have someone misunderstand this issue because there's so much misinformation because they look at it and they say, well, I thought you hated women.
You know, people have asked me, Lil, you're a woman.
How can you be, how can you be against women's rights?
I said, of course, I'm a woman.
I love women.
I believe in women's rights or human's rights, however you want to say this.
But my right to flourish as a woman doesn't include, it's actually offensive to say that it includes the right to destroy my own child because that's a human that has rights too.
And so we got to work together instead of being at war with each other.
But anyways, I think that is when you look at the environment that we're in, I can understand why people get deeply upset about, you know, pro-life, pro-choice.
But when you speak the truth, when you talk about the humanity of that baby, when life with the science showing life begins at fertilization, when you expose what abortion is, you know, the really horrific dismembering, suctioning to death, a little developing human being.
When you talk about the toll abortion takes on women, this is not good for women.
This never has been good for women.
It's a big lie.
You expose planned parenthood.
People start to come around.
We see that all the time at Life Action.
So that's what gives me hope.
And you love people, but you don't water down the truth.
You speak the truth and it prevails.
It ends up prevailing.
You know, the second thing, and maybe this is the same question.
And if it is, we can skip over.
But I do want to put this forward.
You know, I remember I was pro-abortion as a young man and I was a liberal and I just thought this is the way things are.
And I got into a night-long argument with my oldest friend, still my oldest friend who's a devout Catholic, and a beer-infused argument where we screamed at each other in a friendly, in a loving way, but still screaming until 2, 3 in the morning.
A loving argument.
Well, you know, men are like this, you know.
And I went to bed that night and I remember thinking he won that argument, which actually doesn't happen to me all that often when I'm arguing with someone, unless I happen to be wrong.
And it still took me 20 years because the culture around me made me feel like I would be a bad person.
And the thing that I'm concerned about is that Roe v. Wade degraded our culture to a level where now, of course, all you need to do is get your hands on an abortion drug.
You don't even have to go to Planned Parenthood.
Is there a way to infuse the culture with the opposite idea without being condemnatory, but saying, no, you know, this is something that really decent people don't do?
Yes, I think there is.
And we do this every day at Life Act.
And that's our whole, our whole focus is changing hearts and minds by winsomely speaking the truth.
And when you said earlier, what does winsome mean?
Winsome means you got to speak the truth because you're not going to actually win them over to any kind of truth if you're not actually telling the truth.
Like if you're mitigating it, compromising it, you're afraid of it.
So we're not hiding the evil of abortion, the toll of abortion on the survivors, on women, on the men who are left behind after their children have been killed, on the evils of Planned Parenthood.
But you do it in a way that is inviting them to join the truth.
You're not saying shame on you.
It's that political divisive language of the left is all bad and evil and the right is good.
And we don't get into that.
Instead, we say, listen, some of the people we work the closest with at Life Action are people who used to be abortionists.
They used to kill babies.
I mean, Dr. Anthony Levatino, he goes, he says, I did 1,200 abortions.
I ended the lives of 1,200 children.
Dr. Kathy Outman, she calls herself, she says, I was a mass murderer.
But now she says, I have been healed by God's grace.
They do, I mean, God for them, it's very personal, spiritual for them, because how can you get over this without a belief in a savior who loves you, right?
But they say, listen, I am now on this mission to help people see the truth to save lives and to prevent people from experiencing this pain and this horror that abortion is.
So when you're partnering with people like that, someone say, well, you're being judgmental.
It's like, no, you're just being loving.
You're trying to help people because I don't want anyone to have an abortion and go through that.
I don't want any baby to experience the horror and the extreme rejection of abortion because that's what it is.
It's the most lethal rejection of a child.
And I think children have souls.
I think, you know, we all have souls.
And on a psychological spiritual level, there's implications beyond what we even realize sometimes here.
So our goal here is love, Andrew.
want people to be free of this death culture that has gripped us even since before Roeby Wade, it started to grip the culture.
And we're going to get free.
We're going to get free, I believe, but it takes a lot of truth telling and it does take controversy because this is a lot of grief.
This is a lot of bloodshed.
This is a lot of brokenness.
It's going to take controversy, but you enter it with the spirit of love.
And that, I think, makes all the difference.
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Sex Education Redefined00:08:01
Now it is really, I mean, it's just so ingrained.
I wrote that movie, Gosnell, about that abortion.
He was a little serial killer.
While we were researching it, we interviewed the prosecutor who took on the case.
And when she was doing the void of the jurors, she would say, well, what are your feelings about abortion?
And the men would say, oh, I can't have an opinion about that because I'm a man.
And she said, every one of them said that.
So it is tough to break through.
Talking to Lila Rose, founder and president of Live Action, where they are doing battle to defund Planned Parenthood, a battle that needs to be done in one.
And she's also the host of the podcast called the Lila Rose Show.
To move on to something else for a minute, you talk to women and you talk about women, what I guess we could call women's issues.
And recently, I was looking at some work by a woman.
I see if I can remember her name, Catherine.
She wrote a book saying that women have babies when they're religious.
And one of the things that- Hannah's, is that the Hannah's children author?
Yeah.
Yes.
Catherine is her first name if we're talking about the same person.
It's like Pakaluk or something like this.
Pakaluk.
Very good.
There you go.
Sharp as a tuck.
I forgot that.
But she was just on the show a few months ago.
She's phenomenal.
So one of the things that disturbs me deeply is that women in our society who are at the top levels of society basically stopped having children.
Certainly have stopped having children at a replacement rate.
And I mean, that's really true throughout the West.
And, you know, a lot of conservatives have a tendency to blame women for being born into the culture, which I think is a very anti-female and anti-feminine culture.
But surely there must be something we can say.
I mean, paying people to have babies doesn't work.
You know, encouraging them to have babies doesn't work.
What is the path to fixing this, which is obviously the end of human civilization?
What is the path to changing this culture?
Yeah.
And like you said, we're below replacement rate as a country.
So the only reason that the population isn't shrinking and dramatically so is because of immigration and illegal immigration is part of that, you know, undocumented and folks coming in here.
The path forward is always the future always has to be family.
It has to be children.
Otherwise, you just don't physically have a future, right?
So we kind of tend to forget that, but the family is the building block of any civilization.
So there's a few lanes here that I would say should be considered.
One of them is there is a public policy role to play here in terms of helping make America a friendlier place for families so people are more open to life.
There are other countries that have done different incentives, like Hungary.
I don't know if you're seeing some of the work that they've done, but they're literally making motherhood be tax-free.
So if you're a mother and you have more than two or three children, your tax rate dramatically declines until at four children, you don't pay a single cent of taxes in the entire country if you're a mom.
I think we should give more incentives to families who have children.
I would say if you have four children, you should be income tax-free in this country, not have to pay a penny of income tax.
Children are our most valuable asset.
They are the future.
They are everything.
And we don't value enough the role of parents, not just mothers, but dads too, both of them, but certainly mothers.
And so that would be some obvious public policy steps: you know, put your money where your mouth is.
If children are the future, then make it easier for families to feel comfortable again raising kids.
I do think cultural impact is huge here with in terms of a negative view towards marriage and family life, but it's also economic because listen, you know, 30, 40, 50 years ago, you know, you could raise a family.
It was normal, much more normal to raise a family on one income, to be able to buy that little house, to be able to pay that mortgage.
Like there was a much more normal American life than it is today, where most families feel they need two incomes.
And I'm not saying you have to have two incomes today because there are a lot of sacrifices a family can make to try to figure it out on one, but it's a different world than it was 40, 50 years ago.
And I think we need to acknowledge that and be real about that.
That being said, there is a way, there is a path.
And we need to, I think, encourage people that motherhood is beautiful.
It's a gift.
There's this Debbie Downer attitude for women about anything that's related to the more feminine things like nurturing a child.
And instead, we're told, go into STEM, go into the boardroom, lean in, you know, go get that law degree, go be that boss babe.
And again, I'm not saying women can't work.
Of course, I work.
We, you know, work is a part of life for every human being since the beginning of time.
We all work in one way or another.
But we need to affirm culturally that the most beautiful, truly, I think, meaningful work is the care of a new human soul and person that you get to develop and nurture.
And that a mother's unique ability to do that, especially when they're very young, is absolutely essential.
That men and women are not the same, that they are equal in dignity, but they are different and they're not interchangeable.
And what a mother provides to a young child is different than what a father provides.
Again, everybody has different personalities and approaches.
So there's a lot of nuance here, but only women can be mothers.
And so we kind of treat women like they're men, but that's what feminism, you know, modern feminism has done.
It's like, treat us like men, we're like men.
And it's like, you're not a man.
And that's a good thing.
You know, celebrate your femininity.
Celebrate the fact that you can bring life into the world.
That's a superpower.
And so our public policy supports that more.
Culturally, we have these conversations more.
And we're also, I think another part of it is, you know, the whole sex education stuff drives me crazy because the way that sex education is done today is it's about mechanics of this is mechanically how sex works and use a condom and you know, sexually experiment and it's not a big deal as long as you it's safe sex complete nonsense.
Sex is about a relationship with another person and sex brings life into the world and that's a good thing.
By the way, it's designed to do that and that is not some oh you, you accidentally get pregnant.
How horrible it's like.
Oh, if you get pregnant, it should be in a context where it's like, how wonderful, right.
But how do we do that?
You put sex back where it belongs, in a lifelong relationship where you're committed and faithful and in love with this person, you're going to serve them and you're open to having the children that sex can create, right?
If we change our dynamic on sex education to be focused on what the natural order is for this, which is a beautiful thing working with our bodies, I think that would also change our view of women, women and men, and motherhood and fatherhood, because right now we're kind of conditioned to think about sex as a me game, my pleasure, and we're conditioned to think about ourselves as interchangeable men and women.
We've forgotten our nature.
We've forgotten what we're, you know how we're designed, and that has a.
That has big consequences.
And one other thing i'll say that I think is another solution andrew, is um fertility awareness.
I'm a huge fan of educating our young people on the development of children in the womb.
So that's one thing we're doing at LIVE Action with something called baby Olivia.
That's not the fertility awareness piece, that's that's actually showing the beauty of life in the womb.
So that's something we I I digress a minute, but forgive me here.
We just passed this morning in Kansas the fourth baby Olivia Law.
LIFE Action is helping do this behind the scenes, you know, helping get this in into public schools.
Every public school student now sees the development of life in the womb.
So that education is important to condition young people to see the value of life, the scientific truth about how life is beautiful, because we're taught it's a blob of tissue, it doesn't matter.
So that's essential education.
The other part that's essential back to sex education is fertility awareness, how our bodies actually work as women, as men, and that fertility is not some sickness that you need to medicate with a birth control pill that you're you should be afraid of, but your fertility is your superpower.
It's a gift, it's a.
It's a.
It's a vital sign for how your body is healthy or not.
It tells you so much, learning to understand our bodies as women and men, understanding women's bodies too, quite frankly, and each other and our sexuality in terms of what it's designed for that, I think, also will help people more appreciate how incredible it is to be able to be a mother or a father.
I was going to say, I was going to say that's like a totally different culture than the one we're in, but I I think it is possible.
90% Agreement00:03:55
You know, I was just reading this article in, in First Things, A Woman complaining that the right was very bad at appealing to feelings, which is, you know, I always had that argument with Ben where he says, facts, don't care about your feelings.
I said, feelings are a fact.
You know, this is, they're a real thing.
But but when you, when you talk to women, especially young women, because I think I have a lot of hope in this new generation they seem to have thrown off a lot of the problems that the two generations between me and them.
Uh have, when you talk to young women, what is the thing That they bring you?
That is a problem.
When you say these things to women, some of them must push back and say yes, but what do they say is happening that is preventing them from taking that attitude?
Yeah, I mean, honestly, Andrew, when I talk to women and we actually are able to have a conversation or I'm able to share more than like a 60-second clip on the internet, right?
Like a quick, you know, gotcha Instagram reel, which is much of today's commentary, right?
Unfortunately.
But when we have these conversations, or I have people listening to my podcast as an example, it's almost very rare.
It's very rare that I'll get someone saying, you're totally, this is wrong.
I disagree.
I, you know, women are men or, you know, women should be like men or whatever they, you know, what are they going to say, right?
When they hear it presented in its more holistic form, that like with the nuances, because again, when it's just sound bites, like, you know, women, women belong in the kitchen, right?
Like, you know, and men get to do what they want to do, and women are like, like, if they have these stereotypes of what it means to be, you know, traditional or conservative, right?
And then they see some ex-account doubling down on the stereotypes, like a red pill bro saying, yeah, women deserve, you know, put them in the kitchen or whatever they say.
I can understand why the boss babe, you know, you know, pseudo-feminist would be like, oh, they're ridiculous.
See, I need to fight them, you know, fight the patriarchy.
But then you sit down and you actually talk to them.
You talk about their dreams, their goals, you know, their hurts.
You talk about the bigger picture, about the gift of obviously fertility, the superpower of motherhood, the role of men and women and how they can work so beautifully together and complement.
Those women usually like 90%, they are in agreement.
It's not that, it's not that we agree about a lot more than we realize if we sit down and talk.
But we have these labels that we put on things.
And there's obviously, you know, outrage culture on the internet, which drives a sense of division that is maybe overpronounced, quite frankly.
And I'm not saying there aren't real differences, especially on the issue of abortion.
There's some people who think abortion should be legal.
When it shouldn't, it's killing a baby, right?
So we're going to have real differences.
We have to debate and figure out.
But when you actually talk about this view of, you know, women and men are equal in dignity, again, 90 plus percent of people are saying, yes, they are.
They are different.
Yeah, they are different.
There are different roles naturally that leads to caring for children because women get pregnant, men don't.
Women nurture in a way men can't.
So men have a role to protect and provide when the woman is nurturing.
Yeah, again, you're at an 80-90% issue where people are like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
We're not saying women can't work or they don't have intellectual abilities or they can't contribute economically because of course they do.
But we should arrange society so that they're able to make some of their most significant contributions, which are the most essential for society, quite frankly, to be with their kids, to be able to be there for their kids.
And you ask your average woman, Do you want to be with your kids or do you want to be working at nine to five?
And many of them would like to be with their kids.
And then we got to do the extra work of saying, okay, what does it mean to be with your kids, right?
Because post-industrial world, modern world, loneliness is an epidemic today.
We're living in suburbia.
We're all separated from each other.
You know, we don't know our neighbors.
If you're a mom, a stay-at-home mom, you don't have good friends, you don't have a social life that involves other families, you don't have maybe even a strong marriage or you're a single mom, even, right?
It is really, really, really hard.
Acknowledge the Loneliness Epidemic00:00:56
And we can't run away from that fact.
So we need to talk about too, how do you do motherhood in a way that's going to be supportive of your mothering and your kids and hopefully your marriage if you're married?
We want you to be married.
How does that look?
So there's a whole world of cultural conversations that open up that are happening right now, thanks be to God, but there needs to be more of that, right?
And acknowledge that we're not fighting each other constantly.
We're trying to work together to make life better for everybody.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lila, I wish I had 10 of you.
I would be optimistic completely.
Founder and president of Live Action, the host of the Lila Rose Show.
It is wonderful to see you again.
I'm always thrilled to talk to you.
It really gives me hope.
Thanks a lot for coming back.
Thank you so much, Andrew.
Well, I don't usually fanboy like that, but she is special.
She's a special person.
And as I say, that day that Roe v. Wade was overturned, she was the first name that came into my head.