Pearl Davis argues marriage is a losing gamble for men, citing 70% of divorces initiated by women, 90% of alimony paid by men, and 30% of divorces driven by malice—backed by her research on 1,000 women. She claims one-sided abuse is 70% female-perpetrated yet rarely documented, framing marriage as a legal minefield with men nine times more likely to die by suicide post-divorce. The host counters with marriage’s proven benefits, but Davis dismisses it as a cultural relic, blaming feminism for eroding women’s commitment while exposing Gen Z’s plummeting marriage rates. Legal history—like 19th-century divorce laws favoring men—contrasts sharply with today’s skewed outcomes, leaving her warning: without prenuptial safeguards, marriage is a high-stakes gamble with stacked odds against men. [Automatically generated summary]
Hey, welcome to this week's interview with Andrew Clavin.
I'll be interviewing Pearl Davis.
She is one of the fastest growing influencers, very controversial.
I saw, she has like a gazillion followers on YouTube.
I saw her last July and really liked her.
I didn't agree with a lot of what she was saying, but I thought she was making some excellent points and saying things that I've been saying for many years.
And then she put out a video and I'll talk to her about it that I thought was not very well directed.
And so I really want to talk to her.
I have to tell you that ever since I invited her on, people have been coming up to me and saying, I hope you really give it to her.
I hope you really tear her apart.
She's very controversial.
That's not going to happen.
I actually, I like her.
I think she has a really nice personality on the air.
And I agree with some of the things she's saying and disagree with others.
And I just want to ask her about it.
I don't invite people on to fight with them.
I invite them on to let them have their say, whether I agree or not.
So Pearl, thank you so much for coming on.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks for having me.
So why, what is it?
Now, basically, well, why don't you do this?
Why don't you explain to me, to us, what it is that you're saying that makes people on your case so much?
Oh, gosh, the list is so long.
Well, I think men are better at everything than women.
So people think that I'm kidding with that.
I'm not, but I think that makes people mad.
I think marriage is a bad deal for men today.
In 2024, I'm working on a divorce documentary.
So I actually, I went and then I do a show in London.
I interviewed over a thousand women about dating and relationships.
So I used to argue with people all the time, but I recently stopped doing that because, gosh, it was just tiring.
It was really tiring.
So when you say, let's start with the men and women, when you say that men are better at everything, it certainly seems that men are better at all the things that men do, but they're not better at mothering, are they?
They don't have babies as well as women do.
Well, that's the only thing they can't do is have a child.
But like, if you look at single father homes, they fare very similar to single mother homes.
Well, yeah.
Or sorry, sorry.
Sorry, better.
Sorry, better than single mother homes.
So I actually, I was trying to think of anything that women were better at.
And when I tried to look up data, I just couldn't find anything.
So like if you look at kids from, no, because I was like, okay, well, we're the nurturing ones, right?
But then we're more likely to kill infants and the elderly.
We're more likely to kill infants than your women are more likely to kill infants than elderly people are likely to kill infants.
No, no, we're more likely to kill infants and the elderly.
Oh, and the elderly, I see.
But that's kind of, that's kind of an unfair, that's an unfair stat because it's like women take care of the elderly and infants more and who wouldn't want to kill them.
I mean, they're incredibly annoying.
Yeah, but you could look at abuse too, because that was another thing.
I noticed on like, I noticed on my show, like I interviewed over a thousand women on dating and relationships.
And I thought it was crazy how many women told me they were abused.
And then I would ask a couple questions.
And generally it was kind of nonsense, most of it.
So like they never filed a police report.
They would always like one girl I had on told me that she was pushed down a flight of stairs, for example, but she kind of forgot the part where she was trespassing where he told her to get out.
So he was trying to get her out of the house, stuff like that.
But if you look at abuse stats, when you look at one-sided abuse, it's 70% women.
That women do a lot of the abusing, you mean?
Well, most abuse is mutual, meaning they're both like hitting each other.
Yes.
But if you look at one-sided abuse, women are more likely to abuse.
So when you talk to just about anybody about their mother, if you talk to men especially about their mother and you insult their mother, you usually wake up in the hospital.
I mean, men actually, people really love their mothers.
And so it seems to me that there must be something special there that women do.
I mean, I'm in this wonderful marriage and my wife has made a home for me and they raise children.
Our children are wonderful and we have this, you know, and I don't think I could have done the things that she did.
In fact, I'm sure of it.
I know I could not have done the things that she did and the way she, the generosity that she has.
I've never met a man.
I've never met a man who has the generosity of spirit that not only my wife has, but women like my wife have.
So is there something there that you're missing?
I mean, it just seems like a big blanket statement.
Well, I was just trying to find any data that supported we were better at anything.
I couldn't find any.
I swear I didn't start with this opinion.
I just would think, well, are we better at cooking?
And then all the top Michelin chefs were men.
Are we better at raising kids?
Are we better with babies, but then we're more likely to kill infants?
It's almost unheard of for a man to kill an infant in the first year.
It's almost 100% women that do it.
Yeah.
Again, how many men are taking care of children in their first year?
I mean, but then you could look at the elderly, same thing.
All right.
So I don't want to argue.
You think that men are better at everything.
So what is your conclusion from that?
But they're better at everything.
No.
But then you said that men shouldn't get married.
Marriage is a bad deal.
This is the thing that actually kind of attracted me to what you were saying in the first place.
I've said that ever since feminism that if you marry anybody, even feminist adjacent, you're probably going to get a bad deal because men give up something very dear to them when they marry.
They give up their sexual freedom, which for men is very important.
And so they give up something.
What do they get?
Now, I got a home.
I got a mother of my children.
I got wonderful children.
I got companionship.
I got love.
You know, many wonderful things that I got in getting married.
But I'm not sure that as many guys are getting that today.
But you seem to be saying that even if you get that, you're kind of getting a bad deal.
What percent of women do you think are marriageable under the age of 35?
Oh, God.
Debt-free.
Yeah.
Debt-free.
Yeah.
No tattoos.
No sex work in shape.
Uh-huh.
And what percent?
You think it's smaller?
Well, you tell me.
No, these numbers were confirmed by an actuary in a world.
It's called a world without men.
Right.
5%.
5% you think are marriageable?
What percent of men are marriageable?
No, no.
70% are overweight just by that logic.
So what percent of men are marriageable?
No tattoos, not overweight.
Well, we're not measured by the same things.
Why not?
Because men and women, I mean, you know this, men and women are different.
Men and women are different.
Okay.
But then that kind of brings me back to the thing you were saying about men and women.
I don't know.
It just, that point doesn't seem as good to me, the idea that men are better at everything.
Men and women are different, so they do different things.
But the idea of marriage not being- Even- I'm sorry, go ahead.
Well, the idea of marriage not being a good thing for men.
This is something we get hit on at the Daily Wire all the time because all of us, all of the main male talent at the Daily Wire are not just married, but devotedly and happily married.
And so we get, people yell at us and say, well, you're disconnected from the culture.
And my thought about that is, well, shouldn't you be more like us?
And instead of us becoming more unhappy in our marriages, if men are not supposed to get married, what is a man's life supposed to look like?
I don't say they should or they shouldn't.
I think every guy has to decide for himself.
You guys' options are going to be different than a different guy's options.
I'm not here to tell men what to do, but I think using a blanket statement telling men to get married young without fully understanding women today and the laws is not the wisest.
Right.
Well, people who marry because in a business deal, you would never sign a contract in business that the other party is paid to leave.
It would not be wise, right?
If me and you were to do a business deal together, and if I break the deal, I get your children, half of your stuff, and I can ruin your reputation.
You would never do it.
Well, I mean, and it's not uncommon.
But 30% of divorces, 30% of divorces are malicious.
So people who are married are happier, healthier.
They have more sex.
They live longer.
So about 1% of business startups succeed.
So it's a high risk, right?
To start business.
You pour money into it.
You put all your soul in it.
You put all that work, maybe your time, maybe you get older, and then it fails.
That's 99% of the time it's going to fail.
So it's a high-risk business, but the payoff can be big.
So marriage, too, has become a higher-risk business than it used to be.
Why do you attribute it to marriage?
Why do I attribute?
Women tend to select for good-looking, handsome, healthy, high-earning men.
Why do we attribute happiness to marriage?
Because I've seen it.
How do you measure happiness?
Well, I've seen it.
I've seen that all the happiest people I've ever met have been in long-term marriages.
Well, I've also seen the other end of it.
I've seen men get married and lose all of their stuff.
Right.
So you're saying it's a high-risk, it's a high-risk thing with a high, but it's a high reward.
What does a man get out of marriage that he doesn't get in out of a live-in girlfriend?
Well, that's kind of a strange question because if she's a live-in girlfriend, then which is not uncommon nowadays.
But a live-in girlfriend is effectively acting the wife.
And in this country, anyway, after a while, it can divorce you the same as a wife can.
So there's no advantage to it.
So, I mean, that's a weird question.
Well, it's not an unfair question.
Why does he have to get the state involved?
Well, it's not, for many of us, it's not the state.
It's the church.
I mean, it's a religious act.
And it also, I mean, look, I got married.
When I got married, I had lived with my wife for two years.
I saw absolutely no reason to get married except we wanted to have kids and we wanted to be a family with one name.
And so we got married.
And the minute I got married, I knew everything had changed because people are ritual oriented.
Ritual means something.
And so the marriage did change everything.
It changed it on the instant.
I mean, I knew the second I did it.
I knew, A, the second I did it, I'd done the smartest thing I'd ever done.
I'm not talking about your marriage, though.
And I think sometimes you guys take it kind of personal where it's like, well, my, no, no, not, but I'm saying, because you guys always refer to your marriages, but we're not talking about you guys.
Well, what I'm talking about marriage as an institution, the average marriage is eight years.
But what I'm saying.
70% are filed by women.
Only 5% of women are marriageable under the age of 35.
90% of child support and alimony goes to women from men.
30% of divorces are malicious.
It's not about you guys, but overall the institution.
How can you look at those numbers and not see that it's broken?
Something's wrong.
Well, again, it's high risk, high reward.
Well, again, but you always attribute the reward to marriage.
Well, because I think, I'll give you an example.
I'll give you an example.
I think that successful men were going to be successful anyways.
I don't think you can attribute it just to their family and women.
I think men that are on a mission are on a mission regardless.
They're going to be successful regardless.
And women and women select for successful men.
I don't attribute it to marriage and family.
I attribute it to men following maybe God and their purpose.
But isn't it kind of strange that all those successful men, the first thing they do when they stand up as an awards dinner is thank their wives, they seem to feel that their wives have something to do with it.
Well, 49% of billionaires are divorced.
But you're saying two things.
I mean, it's one thing.
See, the point where I agree with you is I think that marriage can be a bad deal from the stats.
But you're seeing two things that like, you're actually saying that marriage itself, which has made so many of the men I know, will attribute not just their success, but their manhood to marriage.
They'll say like, my marriage made a man out of me.
So you're saying it's bad even when it's good.
No, I didn't say that.
I think there are good marriages out there.
But I don't think it's the rule.
I think it's the exception.
Why do we have phrases like it's cheaper to keep her?
Happy wife, happy life.
Why are those common?
Well, I think those are really dumb phrases.
Well, it doesn't matter if you think they're dumb.
It matters that they exist.
But yeah, but if marriage was such a good deal, why aren't men signing up?
You're talking about two separate things.
You're talking about the culture, which is obviously, we're obviously in a sick culture.
We all know, I think everybody knows that.
But you're also talking about the question, let me put it to you this way.
What do you think a man's life should look like?
Because, for instance, I think if I said, what should a man's life look like?
It would include marriage and family and children.
I think that would be the best thing.
Now, you want to say, here's a guy who shouldn't be like that, or here's a society that's falling apart and makes it difficult.
Those are two different things.
But what do you think a man's life should look like?
I think every man has to decide that for himself.
Right.
Like, Jesus wasn't married.
Well, okay, well, exempt the son of God.
No, if we can exempt the son of God for a moment.
But there's examples of great men in history that didn't get married.
Yeah, but there's examples of great men.
So I think in history who are miserable, too.
I mean, that's not a good idea.
I know, but that's my point.
I don't think marriage is for every man, and there's not enough wives to go around.
Yeah.
And so what are men supposed to do in the meantime?
It's an interesting thing to say.
I'm just trying to get at the thing that you're saying, because I'm a little confused about it, to be honest with you.
Like, the idea that the culture is so broken that men shouldn't get married.
No, I don't say should or shouldn't.
Okay.
You're saying it's a bad deal.
I say it's objectively a bad deal for men.
Right.
By the number.
Because of the way the court system is structured.
That's the reason.
So that's the reason?
It's not because women of the nature of women themselves?
I mean, is that what you're saying?
That's what I said.
Yeah, no, is what you're saying that the system, the court systems are so bad that.
Oh, it's terrible.
Advice for Men00:15:12
I mean, I don't.
But wait, Just a minute.
I just want to make sure I understand.
But you're not saying that you shouldn't get married because women are a pain in the neck or whatever.
No, I'm saying every man has to decide for himself.
Right.
But there are not enough wives to go around.
I mean, objectively, there are not enough wives to go around in 2024.
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If someone came to you and said, Pearl, you know, I really understand what you're saying about the court system, and I really understand what you're saying about women, but I really want to get married.
That seems to me the meaning of life.
The meaning of life is to have children.
The meaning of life is to build a family.
The meaning of life is to have a home.
What advice would you give?
I'm not really in the business of giving advice, but I would say get a prenup, consult your attorney in your state.
No, you have to be careful.
I mean, it might be funny to you, but I've seen men on the brink of suicide after this stuff.
Sure.
I've seen men marry.
You know, I interviewed one guy who married a traditional Eastern European girl.
And, you know, he lost his job.
He lost his house.
He lost his children.
He hadn't seen them in two years, even though they were a mile from him.
Like, Andrew, these are real things that happen every single day.
Men are nine times more likely to commit suicide after a divorce.
Right.
Men have to be careful.
They have to protect themselves.
But I think, you know, listen, all of this stuff I get and I hear that, but I think you're dodging something here.
I really do.
I think every study I've ever seen shows that a happy marriage makes men happier and makes people happy.
No, no, no.
And wait, wait, wait.
And my experience is that, in that the people I know who are happily married are the happiest people I know.
So high risk, high reward, and you kind of dodge the fact that it's high reward.
I mean, I guess what I'm saying to you is like, when you give this general piece of advice.
It's not advice.
Well, when you give this, well, it is.
It's saying that this is a bad deal, that you should go into it feeling it's a bad deal.
It's a form of advice.
Well, it's a bad deal because women are paid to leave.
Right.
That's why it's a bad deal.
Right.
And we have a culture that doesn't shame women for leaving either.
Yeah, no, I agree.
This is why, this is what interests me about what you're saying.
Because of that, men have to be very, very careful.
Right.
They have to be careful.
But then when I ask you how they should be careful, besides legal things, all you have to say are just get a preenup and all that.
You don't know, is there a sort of woman that you would look for if you were a man?
Childless.
I would say don't date women with children.
That's good advice.
No debt, no tattoos.
Personally, I like my brothers to go for more athletic women because we grow them tall in my family.
But I'm not really in the business of giving men advice.
I think every man has to decide for himself.
There's a million other content creators in the manosphere you can talk to that have literal courses on this stuff of how to vet women.
I'm specifically talking about how the laws are not favorable to men.
Well, I think I just think objectively, like you can't say that's a good deal when women are paid to leave.
It depends.
It depends.
Because before the laws went bad, they favored men in ways that were tremendously unfair.
And I could match every story.
I could match every story that you tell about bad men with stories of women that happened back in the day where they lost everything.
And that's overcorrect.
There's writings from the 1800s of men complaining about divorce court then.
Yeah, but this isn't like a new, this isn't a new phenomenon.
Like there's writings from the 1800s talking about how the man is paying money to his opera, like his wife who's on, who's an opera singer and makes more than him.
Because naturally, I just think we have a society that naturally wants to protect women.
Yeah, but the literature on what happened to women in divorces is extensive and absolutely destructive.
I mean, you should read some of the stuff from the 19th century and the early 20th century that women were destroyed and lost everything.
No, I mean, look, what you're actually seeing is an over-correction of something that was bad before.
It hasn't always been like this.
And people have always struggled with, people have always struggled with the idea of marriage, too.
People have been attacking the idea of marriage since the 18th century.
I mean, women especially really started out saying that marriage is bad for women and we're losing all our rights.
We're losing all our property.
It used to be that when you married somebody, your property became your husband's property.
those are the laws that were actually in place.
And with the first feminists.
Men were also responsible for debt.
So any debt the woman incurred, it went on her husband.
Yeah, but she was so much less likely in those days to incur the kind of debt that women do now.
I mean, you know, this is strange.
What's strange to me?
No, what's strange to me is like, I think you have a solid central point, but you kind of have blown it up to something beyond you're carrying more weight than the argument will hold, I think.
And I'm still a little lost in why and how you can say that you're not effectively coaching women, coaching men to turn away from a high-risk, high-reward situation, which is what men do.
high risk, high reward is what men do.
I mean, you're kind of not really, not really.
Otherwise, they'd be signing up for marriage, according to you.
Well, no, I mean, you're essentially, I see a lot of young men giving up.
It doesn't matter what I say, because men naturally weigh the risks and rewards anyway.
Men naturally have a natural inclination to do that.
And what have we seen the past 50 years?
Men are not signing up to get married.
It doesn't matter what I say about it.
The reputation of marriage is bad.
I agree.
You guys saying, oh, buckle up and get married anyways.
It's not going to make men want to do it.
But that's not what I say.
That's not what I say, though.
Sorry, I'm not talking about you.
But what I'm saying is that what you are noticing, it seems to me, is aside from the legal risks, which I see differently, but still, okay, I accept what you're saying about that.
What you are seeing is that feminism has made women believe they should be and are something that's not really worth marrying.
I mean, when I say to you, when I say to you, I have seen women create homes and mother children in ways that no man I've ever met on earth could ever do.
That's a skill that used to be taught and passed on and passed down and elevated, but it's not anymore.
So you're essentially saying to a man, you should commit to me.
A woman is essentially saying to a man, you should commit to me, but I don't have to commit anything.
You know, I'm still going to go to work.
I'm still going to be about myself.
I'm still going to, you know, that's a difficulty, but that seems to me a difficulty that can be addressed.
That's why the people, the guys at the Daily Wire tell men, they don't tell men just to get married.
They tell men to look for women who are marriageable.
Well, when you look, when you pull Gen Z, family is on their seventh ranking of priorities.
Yeah.
So if the women don't want to do it, what are the men supposed to do?
Well, how do you think that's going to work out for Gen Z?
How do I think it's going to work out?
Yeah, I mean, what do you think a society that's without marriage will look like?
Well, I think there's going to be, it's going to be a single society.
So I'm not saying this is a good thing.
I'm saying this is what's happening.
Yeah.
I'm describing what's happening.
I'm not giving prescriptions.
Yeah, you kind of, you kind of, that kind of strikes me as a dodge, though, because, you know, I mean, I want to.
How am I dodging?
Well, because you started out kind of saying men do everything better than women.
No, I do think that.
Yeah.
But I mean, that's just not true in my experience.
I mean, which is- Same one thing.
What's that?
They make homes and they raise children and they mother children better than men do.
Well, then why don't single mother homes fare better than single father homes?
Well, it depends because if you are missing a father and you are a boy, you are missing an essential element to your manhood.
And I don't think so.
Women are also more likely to abuse children.
But women are around children so much more.
But it's funny.
It's funny because whenever I say anything that makes women look bad, the gut reaction is always to offer an excuse.
No, I think that's a good idea.
And that's always the gut.
I think that feminist women are offering a lot less to men than women used to do.
So I think we're talking, I just feel like you're talking about two things at once.
And then every time I ask you what one thing you dodge over to another, that's what I'm.
What am I dodging?
Well.
Well, if you think that men can just do anything women do and women are therefore unnecessary and therefore the marriage, etc.
I didn't say unnecessary.
That's not what I said.
Except for the physical production of children.
No, I said that men are better than everything.
If I say that adults are better at everything than children, does that mean children are unnecessary?
No, but I would say that adults aren't better at being children.
You know, I think that women are better at being women than men are.
Palpably.
Well, obviously.
No, my only point is I can't find any data that supports anything women are better at.
Yeah, I don't know.
Every time someone says anything, I'll try to look for something that has data to support it.
I just can't find it.
Yeah, again, one way to do that would be to go up to any man you meet on the street and tell him and insult his mother and see how long your day lasts.
I mean, people love their mothers because mothers give them something that nobody else gives them.
Yeah, I mean, I also know a lot of people that are.
Do you not feel that about your mother?
I do love my mom.
My parents are still married.
They've been together 30 years.
I don't know why we're going personal, but.
Well, because this is a personal question.
I think that when you bring out stats that tell people not to do something that's dangerous, but I don't know.
No, I don't say not to do it.
I don't say not to do it.
When you warn people against it.
Do you not think they should be careful?
Of course.
Do you not think that people have always thought that they should be careful about marriage?
Isn't that something?
No, I think ever since I think ever since they switched a couple things in family court, they have to be more careful now.
Yeah, I think that's true.
That's the part I agree with.
But I still agree.
Well, I think you're dancing around something, though.
I'm only, I'm not frustrated by what you're saying.
I'm frustrated by the fact that you're not owning up to certain things that you actually do say.
I mean, when you say to someone to be wary, I mean, I've watched your videos.
At no point in your video do you say this is a high reward?
A marriage is a high reward thing.
And every man, every happily married man I know, you know, puts his marriage at the center of his world.
I mean, I put my marriage as high as anything in my life, besides maybe God, as a source of happiness.
Does your purpose come first or your marriage come first?
Well, my marriage is so tied up in my purpose that I don't even know how to separate them.
I mean, I don't even know how I could have accomplished, how I could have accomplished.
I mean, I got the life.
If I had written out the life I wanted, I got that life.
I would not have had that life without my wife.
And I don't doubt that good marriages exist.
Yeah.
And so I guess the point I'm saying is as a woman, speaking to men, saying you should not, saying that warning them or frightening them over a high risk, high reward thing, you're asking them to act like women.
I wouldn't say that I frighten them.
I would say I interview men that have been disproportionately affected by divorce.
I interview men that have lost everything.
And I don't, and this is why I say it is very serious because I have seen men on the brink of suicide.
There is like, there is like a death in a guy's eyes.
And I can't even describe it.
Like when you meet someone that has had his entire reputation ruined, everybody thinks he's an abuser.
It stresses him out so bad that he loses his job.
He's paying child support alimony.
His kids are a mile from them.
Statistically, divorced women are poorer than divorced men's.
Statistically, women lose more in divorce than men do.
Well, men are more likely to commit suicide after divorce.
30% of them women.
No, no.
This isn't funny.
Well, men succeed at suicide.
They're better at suicide.
Men Disproportionately Affected00:04:54
You're right about this.
This is something they're better at women at.
Women try to commit suicide, but men do it better because they use guns.
Well, no, but I'm saying after a divorce, like I think you're downplaying how serious this is.
No, but if women get poorer, if women get poorer than men after a divorce, doesn't that seem to mean that women are not being poorer?
Well, how do they calculate that?
By the outcome of the people's lives after the divorce.
No, but I'm asking, how do they calculate that?
By the income.
Because they don't typically, in a lot of those stats, they don't include alimony, child support, and the money that women are taking from men.
They just look at their income.
No, I think that's the ones I've seen, they include that in the income.
I mean, divorce is a horrible thing.
You know, most of for most of us, it's against our religion.
Well, if there, if there was 100 marriages, 13 would be in a malicious divorce.
And that's malicious.
That doesn't mean he fared badly.
13 would basically be that he is getting alienated from his children.
He's paying a substantial amount of child support, alimony, et cetera.
And so, again, this is serious stuff.
No, again, I agree with about 50% of what you're saying.
And I think that you're, I'd like to, I'd like to, I wish, I wish that, well, listen, why don't I put it this way?
I'm out of time.
So let me put it this way.
Come back and let's talk about the nature of men and women.
Because I feel that when you make videos, you talk about those things.
And when you're challenged, you kind of vanish.
You kind of dodge me a little bit, which I don't see why you should.
I don't see why you should, because I actually think a lot of what you're saying is true.
I mean, a lot of the dangers of marriage are true.
And I think even all the people here at the Daily Wire believe that.
We believe it's a high-risk thing.
But we also believe that it's so high reward that a man, that men, who are men, should take high risks for high rewards.
Yeah, but I also think you guys attribute everything to women a lot.
And I think that successful men would be successful with or without women.
Well, that's unprovable.
But the men don't think so.
No men.
No happily married man thinks that.
No, you don't, but you don't speak for all men.
But no happily married man thinks that.
It just doesn't happen.
Right, but that discounts the, I mean, I mean, look at what happened to Crowder.
I mean, he did everything.
No, he did.
He did.
He did everything you guys said.
And I'm not, I'm not, I know it's kind of awkward because you guys had to like beef with them or whatever.
So I'm not even trying to do that, but I'm just using him as an example.
You know, he did everything on paper, right?
Yeah, I think he's a bad example.
I think he's a bad example.
And everybody labeled him an abuser, even though his court documents said he wasn't.
Yeah, I don't know.
And I read him.
I read like 100 pages of his court documents.
Yeah.
And that's someone who did the, you know, the Trad Khan.
I think you're making a mistake on this one.
If that is the way you're judging marriages, I think you're not judging them as clearly as you should.
Well, I mean, how are you?
Stephen's been a friend for a long time, but I'm not sure that the way you're depicting that marriage is correct.
Okay, well.
You know, because guys are bad too.
You know, guys do bad things.
And when you say a woman, you know, when you say a woman sometimes starts the abuse in a marriage, that's true.
But when a woman hits a man and when a man hits a woman, it's two entirely different events.
Right.
Well, what does hitting have to do with that?
When you talk about, when you said before, well, women commit abuse in marriage.
Lesbian relationships are the most abusive.
Yeah, I have too.
And yet when a woman abuses a man, it's a lot different than when a man abuses a woman.
I mean, men commit 95% of all murders.
95%.
So we have our flaws.
Well, I mean, if you believe abortion's murder, one out of three women have done that.
Yeah, well, I believe abortion is homogeneous.
I mean, the greatest genocide was when they legalized abortion.
Yeah, well, you know.
You think that's murder, right?
No, I think that's homicide, but I do understand what you're saying.
All right.
I have to stop.
I'm out of time, but I'll invite you back and continue this conversation.
Okay.
Well, thanks for having me on.
No, it's lovely to talk to you.
I enjoy what you do, and good luck.
Okay.
Thank you.
Well, I can't agree with everybody on everything, but I always like talking to people, and I'm really hoping to have more of the younger disaffected right on because I want to hear what they have to say.