Michael Knowles and co-hosts clash over feminism, dismissing it as satire while mocking Andrew Tate’s "pimp" past and his Islam conversion, arguing he’d never reform. They rank Casablanca over The Godfather—then joke about "young black lesbian women of color" rewriting them—before defending Trump’s ethics over Biden’s corruption. WWIII looms in a decade, they claim, as U.S.-China tensions and Ukraine’s war escalate, while debating whether Margaret Thatcher or Angela Merkel proved female leadership’s exceptions. The episode spirals from Epstein conspiracies to Disney’s Snow White remakes, ending with a scathing take on modern pop music—Taylor Swift included—as hollow, despite her "wholesome" image. [Automatically generated summary]
Michelle Obama has more balls than Lance Armstrong.
What did Lance Armstrong do to deserve that?
Obvious.
Obvious.
There's no question.
Long before The Daily Wire ever existed, I was drinking with Andrew Klavan.
And now we've come full circle.
Drew.
Hey.
Cheers to your health.
Thank you very much.
It's a very familiar.
I've warned you when I drink in the middle of the day, I do vomit copiously.
Good, well.
Well, then you've got to make sure that you get the questions right or wrong.
Okay.
Because the rules are, if you get the question right, you get to drink.
And if you get the question wrong, you have to.
I see, there's a high-stakes game.
Yeah, high-stakes game.
You will move my glass to whichever answer you think I would give.
Okay.
And vice versa.
And by the way, we might want to let the audience in on something here.
We know each other very well.
We've been in each other's heads many times.
I started my career here writing as you on social media.
You're doing it so well that, and I'm not joking, I used to look at your tweets.
It was on Twitter to find out what I sounded like.
I would say, like, I've forgotten who I am now.
Well, thank you very much.
I mean, just to prove it to them, you and I are so close, we can almost finish each other's sandwiches.
All right.
Okay.
I'm going to begin.
Then you'll go and we'll go back and forth until we're lying on the floor.
I got it.
I'm already lying on the floor.
Michael Knowles peaked when he was the cultural correspondent on the Andrew Clavin Show.
That's the question.
That's the prompt.
And I'm supposed to say your net, your?
My answer.
Your answer.
You peaked when you were, I mean, okay.
So I just have to say what you would say.
Yes.
Good point.
I peaked when I became an international cigar salesman.
That was the beat.
I knew that was your big moment.
But you certainly got that absolutely right.
I thought that was the only thing you've ever done that entertained me in any way, shape, or informed me in any way.
In any way.
And I was thinking the other day of how that all began.
How you gave me my break in all political media.
I know I've never forgiven myself.
The way you did it was because I had seen a movie that weekend called Sausage Party about a cartoon hot dog.
Yeah.
And you asked me to come on the show to talk about aforementioned cartoon hot dog.
You were actually good.
I actually put you on the show because you were good.
You actually were an entertaining thing.
What happened to you?
You know, I peaked.
I think this is what happened.
You're up.
All right.
Still drinking.
Wait.
Still dry.
No, I don't want to interrupt that.
Michelle Obama has more balls than Lance Armstrong.
What did Lance Armstrong do to deserve that?
Yeah, well, he got sick.
He did get sick.
Yeah.
Man, it's too soon.
He survived.
No, that's cruel.
Obvious.
Obvious.
There's no question.
If it had been some kind of conspiracy theory.
Yeah, no, exactly.
And I'm not saying Michelle Obama is a guy.
You're only mouthing it.
I'm mouthing it.
That's right.
It's less less.
The only way to save the country is to get married and bang your wife, but only in that order.
Who writes this?
Oh, you did.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
And I want you to know.
I want you to know, I did a book thing for my book, The House of Love and Death, which you should all be bamboo.
I did a thing at the mysterious bookshop, and it was packed.
And people kept coming up to me.
Guys could come up to me with their pregnant wife and say, see, I did it.
I'm saving.
I thought I didn't give that specific instructions.
I thought, I'm glad you figured out how to do it.
And in that order.
Okay, so I've got to guess how you.
Well, I know how you would answer.
Well, yeah, that's the option.
I got it wrong.
You got it wrong.
And do you know only because of the you're generally right, but there's one exception, which is religious vocation.
We also need monks and nuns.
And I want to get a point on the board.
That's the other thing.
I want to finally score a point.
That one goes to me.
I want to be very clear on a religious technicality.
I was going to say, outside the Vatican, you know.
Yeah.
Well, what we're going to end up having to do, I mean, not us, because of the wives and the kids and everything, but it's going to be like Benedict running off to the hills, you know, the hinterlands when all of the institutions are flooding with madness.
And then, you know, things will recover, or it'll be the end of days.
Isn't the church falling apart?
Is that me?
I just keep.
The bad news is that the church is falling apart.
It's a complete disaster.
The book is the anti-gross.
It is.
Listen, you've said it.
I didn't know.
I just thought that was.
The good news.
Yeah.
That's always the case.
To quote Hilaire Belloc, I have to take it as a matter of faith that the church is divinely instituted.
One proof for the non-believer is that no other institution conducted with such knavish imbecility would have lasted a fortnight.
What about the American government?
Well, that made it 200 years.
We'll see.
Maybe it gets to 201.
Okay.
It's my turn.
No, it's your turn.
See, peaked.
Cameron Winter, the thing, could be played by a black guy, and it wouldn't change the character or story, but Andrew made him a cis white guy for some reason.
So let's say what you would say about it.
Yes.
Okay.
Correct.
Yeah, of course.
Kirk Cameron's a white guy.
What was the question?
Cameron Winter.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, I love that my book that you're supposed to be.
It's true.
Yeah, you can't.
He would be a Latina woman if you were to make the Disney movie.
You know, a producer called me up just two days ago and asked me if the movie rights were.
And I was talking to him.
I didn't want to just say to him, like, you know, I'm not signing anything until he's white.
I just want to be perfectly clear here.
I didn't want to put him off that quickly.
Yeah.
So he called you, which means that when he hung up the phone, is that when he decided to Google you?
That's what I was thinking.
Well, you know what I said to him?
He said, where are you living?
I told him where I was living.
He said, why?
I said, I work at the Daily Wire.
And he just got this kind of little embarrassed kind of pout on his face.
Yeah.
So who knows?
Well, it's nice to receive exactly one phone call about the movie rights to your book.
Absolutely true.
Absolutely true.
My agent, who was a far-left guy, gnawed my agent, but he read this book.
He loved this book.
And he said, I'm going to sell this book.
I said, you'll never sell it.
I've been blacklisted.
He came back months later.
I've sold this book to over 100 people.
We didn't even get a nibble, and it's so good.
And I said, because I'm blacklisted.
No, they would never blacklist you.
No, you're listed of color.
That's right.
Being Anglican is like playing air guitar.
You have an idea what you're imitating, but it's not the real thing.
It's easy.
It's easy for me.
Do you go first when you read it?
No, we could do it.
let's do it simultaneously, I'm gonna say yes.
No, okay.
All right.
Look, I was on it.
I didn't know if there was some deep esoteric, you were going to convert, swim the Tiber on this show, get the ratings up.
No, I actually believe that the church is universal.
Anglican Air Guitar00:12:09
There are various churches that count the Orthodox Church.
My particular church, which has about 15 people.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And none of it.
Okay, I guess there is sort of...
And your church.
That one will be lumped into the ordinary at some point, sooner or later anyway.
Exactly.
And by the way...
By the way, we're going to heal the East-West system.
I'm only half joking when I say that.
I think we actually could heal it.
I agree.
It's God's church.
He'll bring it together when he's ready.
Yeah.
You'll be left out.
Yeah.
But guys, we resolved the filioque.
Shut up, Michael.
Daddy, no one wants you.
Me, okay.
Here we go.
Huh.
Someone will eventually leak the Jeffrey Epstein client list.
I better leave the country.
I mean, the rest of the Jeffrey Epstein clients.
Someone will eventually leak the Jeffrey Epstein clients.
I think no.
Really, you all.
So I think, no, and you think yes.
Yeah.
I think somebody will eventually leak it.
It has been 60 years since the JFK assassination.
True.
And we were told by congressional order we were going to get all the CIA files in 95.
The year of our Lord, 2023, we get a little nibble here or there.
Oh, maybe they were doing some surveillance on Lee Harvey Oswald.
Well, first of all, Lee Harvey Oswald was killed by a communist, one communist guy, and all the CIA stuff is.
JFK was killed by one communist guy.
JFK.
Oh, who are you talking about?
Yeah, well, no, JFK.
Lee Harvey Oswald.
And then Lee Harvey Oswald was killed by one Patsy for the CIA.
Because they didn't want to tell him that they'd given the guy money or something like that.
But the Clintons can't live forever.
And that's really what's in the way.
Do you think, though, if I assume Jeffrey Epstein was mobbed up with intelligence?
Yes, I think so.
I think it's almost guaranteed.
And will the intelligence agencies allow that information out?
That's a good question.
That's a fair question.
I mean, I think it really does depend.
Like, what was this guy?
We really don't know what this guy was doing.
Like, James Pat, I actually read James Patterson's book on the thing.
You know, the big mystery writer, and he's, you know, he's a billionaire.
So he's.
Does he write his own books even?
I don't know.
No way.
But he gives people credit for writing them, you know.
But I read it, and it didn't tell you anything except like, you know, what he would do to these women.
And I thought, come on, what the hell was he up to?
Right.
I want to.
I actually don't care about the women stuff.
Yeah.
You know, like, and there's only like five things you can do anyway.
Right.
You know, I mean, to quote Norm McDonald, I think you invented a sixth thing.
It's really actually just three and five together.
But I would like to know.
We know the big, I mean, we know Bill Clinton, obviously.
We know Prince Andrew.
We know that.
But about those other guys?
Yeah, Bill Gates.
Bill Gates.
Yeah.
And here's another question I have.
Why is it that Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein both had deformed genitalia?
Yeah.
It's really strange.
Right.
Is that something that makes you want to abuse underage girls?
Right.
That's right.
When it came out, this was totally buried by the press, but it came out in the Harvey Weinstein court docs that he is vaguely hermaphroditic.
Yes.
It's a genital deformity, but he could be identified as intersex.
Really?
Yes.
Which the, I mean, again, the intersex and her hermaphroditism is kind of overstated, because usually you can tell it's one or the other.
But yeah, I noticed the pro-trans left kind of went real mum about that one.
Never actually, hold on, never look over.
Pay no attention to the man behind the orange jumpsuit.
Those are two very weird stories.
Yeah.
I mean, Harvey Weinstein, I don't think, is as weird as Jeffrey Epstein.
And the fact that he could be murdered, like, that is a story out of Suetonius, out of ancient Rome.
The fact that he could be murdered in a facility, a safe facility, a max security facility with cameras and guards and supposedly a cellmate.
And all Hillary needed was a Groucho glasses.
That's the craziest thing.
It's a little funny nose.
Yeah.
Crazy.
Well, to the late Jeffrey Epstein.
You can be a good Christian and actively support the full official Democratic Party platform.
It's no possibility.
It's not possible.
No.
You know, in particular, really just abortion.
Just abortion.
You cannot.
I mean, I think virtually every self-identified Christian is on board with this.
But also if you're Catholic, the popes have been pretty clear.
I just don't understand how you can call yourself an actual Christian.
I can understand almost anything else.
But you're killing babies.
You're killing babies.
I mean, the right to life is not just one right among many.
It is prerequisites.
It's a prerequisite for all the other relationships.
Yeah.
But all the other stuff, too.
I mean, even the trans stuff, even though it's not.
Is that on the platform?
I guess it is.
These days, probably.
I think these days, you know, they're going to build an idol to Osama bin Laden soon enough.
Well, not only that, they may actually be worshiping Satan.
They actually do worship Satan.
You know what I'm saying?
That's the thing, yeah.
A little tough to include that in your Christian liturgy.
You're up.
All right.
Here we go.
Tessa was far less attractive before Jenyuselle.
Wow, there's no way to answer this in a way that doesn't get us in trouble.
Either we're saying that our beloved colleague Tessa is hot, which is going to get us in trouble with HR, or we're going to say that she wasn't hot previously, so we're insulting the woman's looks.
Right.
How do you answer?
I don't know how to answer that.
I know how to answer.
I know how I would.
Now, also, one way you answer will make our advertiser really happy.
And one way will make our advertiser angry.
Yeah.
I know.
But there's only one right answer.
Okay.
All right, let's see.
So the question was, or the statement was, Tessa was less...
Was far less attractive before Jenny's son.
far less attractive before genocide okay well i know your answer but i'm going to say you're wrong I'm going to say Tessa far less attractive because, because, Drew, Genieuselle came on right around the time that Tessa got married.
And Tessa, who is a physically beautiful woman, she became all the more beautiful, actually, when she was married.
Maybe we're talking about soul.
I just don't want to get in trouble, Drew.
I don't.
Come on.
Such a wimp, I can't just say.
Well, in any case, I'll drink to forget the question.
Here's to Tessa.
To Tessa.
And to Jenusel.
And to Jenusel.
She does love this stuff.
Okay.
It is more likely that the great pyramids of Giza predate the flood and were built by Nephilim or with other supernatural direction than that the prevailing narrative pushed by the experts is true.
No.
Come on!
You were so confident in mine that I...
Because I know you're nuts.
Yeah, that's true.
No, you're right.
You're right.
Darn, I'm going to lose this game.
All right.
Can you actually lose this game?
Is there someone who's keeping score?
I am.
It's somewhere.
Look at our hands.
this is great we could do the whole show like this there we are If you told me that the pyramids are 50,000 years old, I would believe you.
If you told me that the pyramids were built by pagan civilizations just worshiping demons and the demons actively guiding their hands, I would believe you.
I'd be much more likely to believe you than if you told me, you know, they had like a lever or something.
They had a bunch of slaves pulling Jewish guys.
Jewish guys aren't that beefy.
I mean, the ones in the IDF are.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, maybe it's that.
Okay, yeah, all right.
All right, maybe, maybe.
I keep an open mind.
All right.
I'm glad.
Well, whether I got that right or wrong, I'm glad that we could at least.
Yes, and I have to say that I'm shocked that we're actually keeping score.
I'm no.
I mean, I don't see the score anywhere.
To more emphatically push back on the woke nonsense of Disney's upcoming live-action Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, Jeremy should go all the way against political correctness and title it Snow White and the Seven Midgets.
Is midgets the least politically correct word for a little person?
No, because a dwarf and a midget are two different things.
Are they?
Yes.
What's the difference?
One is a mythical woodland creature, one is a sort of short fellow.
No, no, one is a short person, and the other is a short person, but is kind of malformed.
I do believe there's a difference.
So, right, one has sort of ordinary proportions.
Yes.
Oh, interesting.
That's true.
I've noticed that distinction.
I think it should be called Snow White and the Seven White Guys.
Snow White and the Seven perfectly ordinary straight white men.
Whiter.
Snow White and the whiter guys.
Okay, so the answer is no.
But I think our solution would be rather.
Yes, of course.
No.
In fact, it should just be called white, white and the white, white, white.
I've been calling the new one sand beige.
Sand beige and the seven tall men.
Seven ordinarily proportioned tall.
Ordinarily proportioned tall men.
Michael Knowles embracing the dad bot in his early 30s.
Yeah, real nice.
Real nice.
I think I look actually pretty good.
Thank you.
Embracing the dad bot in his early 30s is disgusting and disordered.
It's kind of like if Michelangelo saw a marble block and said, ah, let's just slap some pasta and whiskey on it.
It's perfect the way it is.
Who wrote this?
Who the hell wrote this?
I mean, insulting, but undeniable.
So I got your answer right.
I'm trying to think about what I think about this.
All right, we can put it in this.
I'm of two minds here.
One, I think it's weird that men obsess over their physique, like women.
So men, like gym rat men, I think, actually are a little too vain and somewhat womanish.
But the old ancient Greeks, they understood that virtue is not merely an intellectual endeavor.
Virtue And Fitness00:06:22
It's physical as well.
And if I really were interested in full arete, I would lift a weight every now and again.
So I agree.
I agree.
I have to say that especially some of us, those of us who have aged, it is a good thing to stay in shape.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because the thing is, I don't watch what I eat.
Yeah.
You smoke.
And I, well, that's actually the plus because it suppresses the appetite, so I don't become a big fat guy.
So that's the one health benefit I have.
Plus we know nicotine is good for you.
Did you know that?
Great.
It is.
I was talking to your son, no relation to you, Spencer Clavin, and he told me that he believes we will live to see a day when nicotine is looked on as a health substance.
He does believe that.
What contradicts him is after the discovery of America, where they started to send home tobacco, every English king died of jawkins.
That's how I learned.
Well, yeah, but look, that's an anomaly.
And that correlation is not.
I'm starting to realize correlation is causation.
It's like a lib slogan.
It's true.
Is it me, you?
You.
Me.
All right.
Allowing attractive women into the workplace is more dangerous than letting a pit bull babysit your toddler.
Well, you're pretty outspoken against pit bulls, too.
It's sort of a question of is it more dangerous?
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Obviously.
Of course.
I assume we're violating a lot of NLRB statutes here, but it's not good for anybody.
I don't think women should be in the workplace at all.
Of course not.
Of course.
Until, you know, maybe for like a year before they get married having children.
It's like, it's ridiculous.
Yes.
For what?
Does it make women happier?
No.
No.
And like this thing where they come back to work after they have children.
Yeah.
Stay home, take care of your children.
And by the way, eventually your children grow up.
Yeah.
And then you can start to enter the workplace.
Yes.
And you won't disturb people.
Yeah, I'm not opposed to, but you're so right.
Like, for what?
For every fictional story I hear of a woman who really just wanted, her dream was to make widgets, and she was kept from that by the patriarchy.
I have so many female friends who got lured into all the BS, put your career first, and then they say, oh, they despair.
They say, I can't find a husband.
I can't get married.
I can't have kids.
You know, I was at my priest's birthday party, and this woman sat down across me and just started talking to me about her life.
And she had a baby, a new baby, and her husband.
And she said, you know, they told me to go to work and then get married as if getting married was easy, as if it were easy to find somebody.
She said, it was so hard.
And I didn't care about my work at all.
And all I care about is my baby.
And they all, you know, why wouldn't you?
Why wouldn't you?
How much of work is like, you know, nonsense?
Right.
You're raising a child?
You know, I remember I was talking, I guess I was talking to my father-in-law years ago.
I said, well, what thing that you've done are you proudest of?
And he said, well, my kids, no question, my kids.
And I thought, as a guy in his early 20s, I thought, okay, that's just the pat answer that an old guy gives.
Okay, whatever.
And then I had a kid, and within five seconds, I realized, oh, right, nothing.
Look, not to downplay my blank book, which is a magnet, okay?
And we'll endure for ages.
The cigars are good, man.
The cigars, thank you.
The cigars are good.
And those you set on fire, and then they turn to ash.
But I was at the birth of my first son.
My wife is delivering the baby.
I'm delivering my manuscript on my book with words, which I really labored over and cared a lot about.
They were both due on the first day.
You roll them up, actually.
And I thought, oh, you're delivering your baby.
I'm delivering my baby that I've been working on for nine months or really over that, probably double that time.
And I thought, and I'm not downplaying my book.
I think it's a good book.
This is nothing.
This is nothing compared to what is happening.
It's our pale imitation of what they're doing.
Yeah.
And the thing is, I really do feel that because of that, we as men, as a breed of people, have purposely denigrated what women do.
Oh, she's just, she's, you know, they just take care of the house.
And I was like, all I know is like, go up to a guy who's bigger than you and insult his mother.
And when you recover in the hospital, this is something that matters to people.
People adore their mothers.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's a great point.
Or now they're nannies.
It's just capitalism, huh?
I think it's you.
I'm up.
I've read all three of the Cameron Winter mysteries.
I know this for a fact.
Hey, okay.
Hey.
I think you've probably read them.
Now, in fairness, I have maybe read more Andrew Clavin novels.
Certainly, I've willingly read more Andrew Klavan novels than maybe all the novels I've ever read combined.
I mean, it's not...
At the end, you have finished one of my novels?
I owe you.
Oh, yes.
No, I've actually read a number, not a lot, like, I don't know, like five or tops.
Oh, wow, all right.
That's actually a lot.
But I don't, I just, I'm not saying I hate novels.
No, you don't read novels.
I don't read them.
I just, even great novels, even sometimes for the book club, I, you know, I'm assigned novels.
I do it for, and every time I finish a great novel, I think, oh, that was great.
Every time I finish one of your books, I'm not puffing you up.
They're just excellent, and they're like beautiful.
I have, this is going to sound so gay.
I've been, I've, I've like teared up at the ends of your books.
I know, and I'm sorry, this is a confession.
But, and yet still, then I put it down.
I say, wow, that was a truly edifying, perhaps even sanctifying experience.
Well, done with that.
Bye, okay.
Time to go read some other dry philosophy on nonsense.
Yeah, there's some men, like they don't understand what if they understood what novels were for, then they would read them more.
But we're a dumb country, so we don't understand that.
World War III Risks00:03:58
Yes.
That novels actually do, if you read them right, if you read them with a true heart, they actually make you a better person.
Yes, I did, I just ordered, because when we go out, have a stogie, maybe a couple of Coca-Colas, you'll say, you have to read this book or that book.
And then I often order it immediately.
But you never read them.
They just pile up.
So I've got the one, The Monk book.
Oh, yeah.
Well, that's a fun book.
What's that book called?
The Monk.
The Monk by- It's by Monk Lewis.
Yeah.
Yes, and it's on my nightstand.
Well, you would like that because it's a really interesting Catholic album.
All right.
All right, that pitches it up a little bit.
Yeah.
I'm working my way up.
I'm reading the Father Brown stories.
Yeah, they're great.
I can do 20 pages of fiction at a time.
Pretty soon, you know.
It's kind of why I like poetry.
I do read poetry.
Poetry is great.
And poetry, because it tricks me, because I think of a poem as like 14 lines.
And you get to the end of Dante and you think, goodness gracious.
And it takes a long time.
It takes a long time to read a poem.
Yeah.
But I do love poetry.
I love, I mean, poetry had a day and then it died.
Yeah.
I know.
I was trying to compose one right now, like a haiku, but it'll take too long.
Me, right?
You're up.
All right, here we go.
It is more likely that we will fall into World War III in the next 10 years than not.
Yes.
Yeah.
I can make my argument, if you like.
Go ahead.
The term Thucydides trap is overplayed, and most international relations jargon is overplayed.
But Graham Allison, the Harvard political scientist, makes this case that of the last, however many 19 or 16 to 20 global conflicts, three-quarters of them have ended in war.
Meaning when a rising power confronted a dominant power, the consequence, three-quarters of the time, has been in war.
So now we face this with the U.S. and China.
China, I think, is trying to head it off.
And China just recently came out and said, the question is, do you want to be our partner or our adversary?
If you want to be our partner, it's a big, wide world.
There's room for both of us.
If you want to be our adversary and stop us from rising, basically we're going to go to war.
And I think the United States is bellicose, not intentionally so, but we just kind of stumble into wars.
And we're the dominant power on Earth.
And so the odds are already so stacked against us.
I don't see how.
And the civilizations are so different here in the U.S. and China.
There's no compromise.
I don't see.
There's no compromise, yeah.
My argument is that we don't destroy our homes until we leave.
We destroyed Europe after we were gone.
And so I think that when the minute Elon Musk sets up a community on Mars, then we'll have World War III.
We'll just blow the planet to pieces.
You don't think though, do you think we could have a World War III without blowing the planet to pieces?
Yeah, we could.
We could.
Maybe.
Yeah, I mean, because nuclear weapons could be used in such a way that they made the planet unlivable, but they could also be used in such a way that millions die.
Right, that is the thing.
People think about, you know, one nuclear bomb goes off and the whole population.
But that's not actually not how it works.
Right, right.
But especially, you know, when you've got the first major war in Europe in Ukraine, then you've got this outbreak of war in the Holy Land that could escalate.
Scarier Escalation Risks00:11:49
That's the scarier one to me.
Well, it's way scarier.
And it's already involves, what, like six powers or seven powers and maybe more soon.
Wait, so did I get that right or not?
You got it wrong.
I got it wrong.
Ah.
Where's the score?
I don't know.
But they're in my hands.
It's like a fret of sternum.
Really?
When you're blue and you don't know where to go to, why don't you go?
Apparently you're winning by one.
After that.
I'm winning by more than that.
Wait a minute.
Listen how greedy he is.
Okay.
Being invaded by pestilence or being bombarded with noise and production issues on a project is a good sign that you are doing something meaningful.
Ah.
Of course.
Yeah, it happens to me all.
The caterpillars.
Yeah, the caterpillars.
Yeah.
And then wasps.
This was after we, when we did, when we did Another Kingdom, and I felt it was a sort of God-born pie.
Certainly without question.
The reason I say this is because I was sitting there thinking, I had written a novel that didn't work, and I had the flash I was going to have to throw it away.
And suddenly, the entire Another Kingdom story came into my mind at once, which never happened to me before since, ever, ever happened.
Just the whole thing, bang, first place.
And the day that I finished it, that my house was overrun by caterpillars.
And then remember we started to record it.
Yeah.
Everything went wrong.
Yeah.
Constantly.
We had to re-record whole episodes.
Yes, the whole thing was.
And then when I moved and I was writing and another, I'm sorry, The Truth and Beauty was coming out.
And I was getting ready to promote it and everything like this, a book that was clearly a gift from God, that book.
First time that our Lord, alongside John Keats, had ever made the chart.
Yes.
My office was invaded by wasps.
So every day I would come in and there would be five, six wasps in the place.
And I thought, like, well, yeah, of course.
They were Episcopalians.
And they were yelling at you.
It's too Romanish.
Right.
Yeah.
I was doing an interview with an exorcist, Father.
Yes.
Remember this, yeah.
We're sitting there.
Yeah.
And usually on those.
I was told I was going to have 25 minutes of no audio problems, guaranteed.
So we're talking, maybe seven minutes goes by.
Oh, there's some audio problem.
Got a cut.
Cut.
Okay.
Sorry, Father Rehill.
Okay.
All right, we're back up again.
Seven minutes goes by, same thing.
This goes on three, four, at least four times, probably.
And then I look at him.
He's a very calm man, very grounded fella.
I said, Father, does this happen to you often, Ms. Michael?
It's a story of my life.
And I said, okay, next time it happens, just roll.
Just roll right through it.
Don't cut for any reason.
Didn't happen again.
Really?
Rest two-hour interview.
Didn't happen again.
That's funny.
Well, yeah.
As you and I have often said to one another in the midst of some long conversation and or drinking about, this stuff is real.
It's real.
It still surprises me.
Yeah, it's real.
Me too, me too, because we're so trained to not believe it.
Yeah.
But it's obviously real.
Right.
Because in the same way that like mental illness and being demon-infested are kind of the same thing, just from seeing from a distance.
Right.
Like I, I'm not saying there's, I'm not saying that I'm totally confident that they're never separate.
Yes.
But like there would seem to be a lot of similarities.
Like a Venn diagram.
Or like a Venn diagram.
Like Kamala Harris loves.
Yeah, or favorite Venn diagrams.
You're on.
Oh, it's me, huh?
Right.
It is more beneficial for young men or women to listen to Andrew Tate than read everyday feminism.
That's like.
Our Snicker, you know, cyanide.
Exactly, exactly.
More beneficial for young men or women to listen to Andrew Tate.
I know what I would say.
I guess what it is, yeah.
Yeah, grudgingly.
I'm not.
Because Andrew Tate derives his power from saying something that is true that he dedicates to evil.
The thing that he says is true, basically, is that a woman will follow a strong man even if he abuses her before she gives herself to a weakling who pays her all kinds of feminist respect.
So he's saying a true thing.
So somewhere in there is a true thing that he is using for evil.
Right.
Because when good people lie, the evil people get the truth.
Right.
That's the power.
Right.
But everyday feminism is just a joke.
I mean, it's like, you know.
Right.
And that's more poisonous.
The only way that could be edifying is if you go in realizing what a joke it is and treat it like opposite day.
I used to use it when I was writing.
I had to write four satires a week.
It was like cheating.
It was.
Writing four satires a week was the hardest single creative act I've ever done.
And sometimes I would just take everyday feminism.
Just read it.
Yes.
It's like, hey, can I copy your homework?
It won't be too close to what you wrote.
You change two words in everyday feminism.
Yes.
Because Tate reminds me, look, I hold out hope that Tate will figure things out.
I mean, he's a little up there.
He's not 22, but it's never too late.
But it reminds me that the greatest saints of history could have been the worst sinners, and vice versa.
The worst sinners in history.
That's awfully nice of you.
I just mean it.
He's Muslim now, you know.
Yeah, for now.
Maybe that's his.
Like, if a guy goes from being an atheist to being a Muslim to being a Christian, oh, that's great.
I'll tell you.
At least, you know, the Muslims know that God exists.
No, it's true.
As one of them, actually, a town chieftain said to me in Afghanistan, we can talk to the Americans because the Russians had no God.
There were animals.
Yes, yeah, exactly.
But it seems to me, you know, people have different capacities.
And there are great and enormously great, many wickedly great people in history.
And it seems to me that if one of the worst had, if a Stalin or somebody had just gotten his will and his intellect right, gone in the right direction, he could have been one of the greatest saints of history.
Likewise, I think, you know, I don't know, St. Benedict or somebody could have been one of the worst sinners if he turned the wrong way.
You know, your argument is good.
I'm not sure it applies to Tate because he's kind of a, you know, he's a pimp.
He's a pimp.
He's a pimp.
Though he says he gave up pimping.
Yeah.
Probably because it ain't easy.
But I don't know.
I mean, you know, he also lied about that, though.
He lied and tried to make it seem like he had been doing that much longer ago.
And I mean, that's really wicked.
But I admire your open-heartedness.
I try.
I listen.
I legitimately am.
Yeah.
You need to laugh.
A flaw is a bit of optimism.
Yeah.
And I know optimism is bad.
I know it's bad.
It's like pessimism.
Two sides of the same thing.
Seeing the full capacity of the human person, I think, is actually a good thing.
I will praise you.
Though I'll be disappointed, perhaps.
Well, in this case, probably.
But yeah.
But still, I think nice effort.
You get an ether of feminism.
I would be okay with a female president.
Oh, this one's going to get us in trouble.
I would be okay with a female president.
Yeah.
Well, it depends on what the meaning of okay is.
It would be okay.
No, I'll say.
I'll say this.
No, I can still live a holy life, I hope, and go to heaven someday.
So I guess I'd.
Margaret Thatcher.
Yeah.
I mean, the exception.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're right.
Can you think of one other example ever in his job?
No.
Queen Elizabeth, maybe.
Well, she's a queen.
I consider a monarch different than a prime minister or president.
Let's see, Maggie Thatcher.
Liz Truss.
You know, I believe, and this has nothing to do with the capacities of women, actually, I believe that when women take over a profession, the profession is over.
That's what you can tell.
So when women become anchor women, the TV news doesn't matter anyway.
Movie directors.
And it's not, yeah, exactly.
It's not because women can't do it.
It's because men do it first.
They do everything first.
And then they see something new coming along and they clear out.
And that's when the women move it.
And so I would just assume Angela Merkel.
The end of Europe, right?
That was the end of, she ended Europe.
It was like the Germans that took the Germans three tries.
They thought, like, well, we'll just invade.
Then they thought, well, we'll have Hitler.
We'll just kill everybody.
That didn't work.
And then they said, how about a woman canceling?
Just destroy.
Open up the gates.
Here we go.
Level the continent.
So it's hard to believe.
And we don't have a parliamentary system, which is what it takes to throw up a Churchill or a Margaret Thatcher.
Right.
So probably we'd be screwed.
But you have to hold out the theoretical hope.
Yes.
And we.
And it's really just like, it's sort of like answering, I'd be okay if the Hun invaded and beheaded us all.
You know, like I'd be, my okay-ness is not contingent on the political circumstances of this falling war.
That's what I'm saying.
You're up.
I'm up.
All right.
Casablanca is better than The Godfather, and they could both be improved on if they were written and directed by young black lesbian women of color.
Well, wait, that's just too serious.
Let's take the first one first.
All right, Casablanca is better than The Godfather.
Casablanca is better than The Godfather.
Have you seen Bohemond?
No. No? No.
Casablanca is so much better.
Look, Casablanca is great.
I'm not, I'm not knocking.
But it's not great.
It's the great film.
It is certainly among the great films.
I just recently revisited The Godfather.
It's the greatest movie except for Casablanca.
Look, if I actually had to pick the greatest movie ever, I would throw in there, mostly because I like acting, so I look for acting.
I would throw Streetcar.
Great.
Great.
I would maybe throw on the waterfront.
I would throw The Searchers.
Half of the thing that takes place back at the house is not that big.
It's a little weak.
I would throw in, maybe throw in The Man Who Shot Liberty Balance.
Maybe, maybe.
That's maybe second tier.
Gone with the Wind.
Certainly, I would throw in Gone with the Wind.
But I'm now of the opinion, other than my favorite movie, me, myself, and Irene, if I had to, taking obviously that masterpiece aside, I might be willing to say that The Godfather, the first one, the first one is the great one, yeah.
It might be the greatest movie ever made.
Yeah, I think it's the greatest movie ever made, except for Casablanca.
Now, hold on.
Now, the second question.
Oh, yeah.
The second part of it.
You don't want to lose the second part of it.
They could both be improved on if they were written and directed by young black lesbian women of color.
Why Reagan Raised Good Kids00:02:56
Obviously.
I don't want to get canceled.
I want to keep my show.
So, yes.
Because the thing is, young black lesbian women of color do everything better.
Because white men are the worst people on earth.
Except for the lack of talent.
You've got to cut that part out.
I want to keep my show, man.
Okay.
I'm up.
All right.
Donald Trump is a good man.
Wow.
I know what you would say.
That's correct.
You're right, too.
I know why you said it to him.
You would say it too.
Why would I say it?
Because you're a lying dog.
I obviously am accepting the anthropological fact that none is good but God.
I'm obviously accepting the fallenness of God.
Both accept that, right?
I think relative, so we're talking relative to presidents and politicians.
Yeah.
I think actually, relative to our degraded state of politicians and leaders, I think he's in the upper 50% in terms of his virtue, actually.
I think he raised basically good kids.
I thought, look, he got divorced.
He's had all sorts of problems.
I think he's run a business actually pretty honestly.
He seems to be.
You know, it's funny.
The one thing about these indictments is they point out that he's never really done anything all that bad.
Yes.
I mean, the guy was doing real estate in New York.
I know, they're charging him with nothing.
Yes.
Even in his showbiz career, I think about the evil, hideous things people do in showbiz.
What did he do?
He slept with some supermodels, which is like the cost.
That's like the first thing you do when you get into big show business.
I think I'm not defending all the bad things, but even in his kind of conman-y ways, you know, which have been caricatured so much, there's a kind of honesty to it.
Yeah.
And you know what you're getting?
Those are not the things that bother me about him.
I mean, when he was running the first time, I said this is the first post-Christian candidate.
And he was a guy who didn't care.
He treated people like garbage, which, by the way, was bad politics on top of that.
Yes.
But I don't know.
I was just at the Reagan Ranch.
I just gave a speech at the Reagan Ranch.
I was thinking about Reagan.
And by the way, he was a womanizer and all this stuff.
But as a politician, he was so graceful.
Yes.
So decent.
Yeah, of course.
And they told me that they needed to add paving at the top of the ranch for safety.
And he didn't want to do it because he didn't want to spend the public money on his safety.
And I just thought, yeah, that's another thing.
When you go to the ranch, which is pretty cool because it's owned by Yaff.
And so it even has to be zoned as a private space.
Why Not Take All of Me00:07:55
It's cool.
And he kept coffee cans full of old nails and screws because he didn't want to buy new ones.
So, no, the man obviously had such class and grace.
Yes.
Even by the standards of his time, but also it was the 80s.
And that was a more graceful and classy time.
Right.
And I just think he's a great time.
He's a better man than the age of Joe Biden and AOC and Pelosi.
Yeah, no, no.
I'm grading on a curve.
I would say that is a big curve.
Just it.
You're up.
I'm up.
Last one.
For some people, horror films, metal music or sexually themed art are morally fine to create or enjoy.
Wrong.
Put a point up, Danielle.
Let's go.
The or is what does it for me?
Yes.
Sexually themed, yeah.
I mean, it shouldn't be pornography, but sexually themed is obviously fine.
Of course.
And horror films are not.
Horror films, I think, can be quite good.
There's some great ones.
The exception to me, if it had been an and, my answer probably would have been no.
Because metal music.
Metal music, I don't think is actually defensible.
I know so little about metal music.
Just the sound of it sounds terrible.
It's just the name of it sounds terrible.
What I know of it comes from Plato.
Okay.
Was he a big metal guy?
He was a huge metal fan, actually.
Yeah.
It was with the Bacalilas, balaclavas, bacala.
No, hold on.
That's the salted sea bass.
God.
You know, percussion, music generally bypasses the rational faculties.
This is why Plato said you got to watch out.
This is why Alan Bloom said, don't listen to rock music.
And metal, by taking out discipline and control and melody and harmony for that matter, and by being entirely percussive, I do think, I'm with the old fuddy duddies going back to Plato.
I think it arouses the base passions and is actually not ever edifying.
Well, see, here's the thing.
I'm willing to dismiss all music after 1958.
You get two years of Elvis in there, okay?
Okay.
Wow.
I mean, I just, you know, the lyrics, I just was in the gym and I'm on the elliptical and I usually find something to watch.
And there was a Fred Astaire movie on TV and I started watching this movie.
First of all, distill joy.
No one could make anything today.
No one, including me, could make anything today that just distilled joy at that level.
Yeah.
Just sat right with this stupid smile on your face.
Yes.
And then the songs were like, you know, there's this great song, Let's Face the Music and Dance.
So simple, so condensed, you know, and just like, and just on the bridge of poetry, but not trying to be poetry.
Because I believe, this is what I believe about rock music.
I believe it's actually bad poetry.
Like, you know, they say Bob Dylan, they gave Bob Dylan the Nobel Prize.
And I thought, yeah, if poetry is now a decadent art, which it is.
So it is, yeah.
But I just don't think any music, pop music, is good after all.
No, I think, I mean, when I compare the music from the teens, 19 teens through the 50s to 60s and later on, the other day I was playing, you know, I play my ukulele or a guitar or something almost every night, maybe piano a little.
I'm impressed, by the way.
Thank you.
You know, I play every instrument, every instrument of the sun, other than drums, at the level of a 14-year-old.
I've never progressed above that.
That was when I stopped.
But I was strumming on the ukulele, because I saw a great bit of Red Fox singing all of me.
All of me, why not take all of me?
And so I was just plucking it out on Yuke.
And the progression, I realized, is kind of a, it's a charming progression.
It goes C, E7, A7, D minor, and it's kind of hopping around over there, you know, and then it kind of closes on a G7, so the five, and then goes back to the one.
And so I'm playing that, and I said, that sounds kind of familiar.
And I realized it's another song that Clapton kind of popularized, but it's a much older song, which is Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out.
Nobody knows you when you're down and out.
It's almost the same progression.
And it's clearly just a popular progression of that era.
But it's complex.
There's actual complexity to it.
And then I think, well, what is modern rock music?
Modern rock music is.
DEF, yes.
I mean, it's three chords.
It's three chords.
It's 1, 4, 5.
Maybe you throw in a 6 there, which is the relative minor.
Maybe if you want to be fancy.
But that's it.
And so even just, you know, all of me, why not take all of me?
Can't you see, I'm no good without you?
This is not the highest degrees of poetry, but at least there's something happening in the music.
There's some sophistication going on in the music.
If it's just done, you know, and you just think like, well, okay, that's every song since 1962.
And the simplicity of the lyrics.
Yeah.
Mask the sophistication.
You know, you took the part that once was my heart.
It's absolutely a sophisticated lyric.
Right.
And like, you listen to Cole Porter music.
Oh, yeah.
All one-syllable words.
You know, I was watching the other day, what is it, the one that takes place on the ship?
Oh, yeah.
That one.
Yeah, that one.
And all through the night.
All one-syllable words, all through the night, you know.
And when dawn comes to waken me, you're never there at all.
It's just so beautiful.
It's unbelievably great.
Right.
And I hate to sound like a funny day because I understand those, they don't speak just in the same way I believe that abstract art is crap, but it does speak into its time.
So it is all.
Sure, yeah.
I feel the same way about rock music.
You could not write those songs today and make them mean anything because they actually express something you're not.
I'll go further even on the abstract art point.
I have a soft spot for Dada.
Really?
I do, in the sense that I think it speaks into its time.
Well, it does.
And it tells you something, you know, and it's like evil.
And it's an evil time.
That is the problem.
But you're right.
It is art.
Yeah.
You know, and I do feel that way about rock music.
It is art.
Yeah.
As opposed to what's happening now.
Like, I mean, I have absolutely nothing against Taylor Swift.
I don't think she's harmful in any way or anything.
But not art.
No, it's not speaking.
The one positive I'll say about Taylor Swift, though, is because I don't get it.
I went to see the movie of her concert tour and all the women in the office were spending zillions of dollars to get the tickets.
She is so normal.
Yes.
She's pretty, but she's not.
She's not beautiful.
But she's pretty and she doesn't have a ton of tattoos and she's crazy hair or whatever.
She's just like pretty and she sings about her ex-boyfriends.
It's the most basic, relatable girl experience ever.
And she's grateful.
She thanks her fans.
She's nice.
Nice to meet you.
She's just like nice, you know.
And in another age, she'd be playing a local bar somewhere in Palocaville.
But in our age, which is so profoundly bizarre and abnormal, just a little taste of normality, I think, is gold.
Well, you know, she reminds me, not in that way, but when Madonna was like unbelievably big.
I used to think like her music and her songs are like this much better than everybody else.
And I feel the same way about Taylor Swift.
Like you listen to everything and it just goes by.
And you hear a Taylor Swift song, you sort of tap your feet.
Shake it off.
Yeah.
Shake it off.
And that one song of hers that I actually half like as much as I like any model song, like We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together.
I just think it's funny.
Even there's something very wholesome.
She had a song.
I didn't know her songs until I saw this movie.
Some I recognized in the movie, but.
I can't believe you went to this movie.
I have.
I was assigned to do it.
It was a labor of labor.
Not a labor of love.
It's a labor of work.
It's a love of labor.
Taylor Swift's Wholesome Groove00:01:12
Yes.
And there's one about, it's her like sexy song where she's doing her like hot dance.
But even that, she goes, I don't know the words, but it's something to the effect of the things we do, you know, when we're together and the things we do at night in my dreams.
And I thought, even that is kind of wholesome because it's a degree removed.
It's not like, oh yeah, baby, put me up against the wall.