Faith Moore’s Christmas Carol (with a K) reimagines Scrooge as Carol, a time-miserly mom drowning in career demands who confronts ghosts of her neglected family. The novel critiques the "have it all" myth, framing motherhood as irreplaceable and finite, inspired by Moore’s own fertility struggles and Alistair Sim’s iconic film. She argues societal pressure forces women to choose careers over children, urging readers to prioritize love before time runs out—all written between toddler naps. A heartfelt plea for balance, the book blends holiday magic with raw, relatable stakes. [Automatically generated summary]
Hey everyone, it's Andrew Clavin and welcome to this week's interview.
This is the second of our two-part series of terrific female writers who are related to me.
You won't get this anywhere else for some reason.
Today, my guest is Faith Moore.
She used to be Faith Clavin, but realized that a girl's reputation can only stand so much.
So she changed her name and now lives incognito to Faith Moore.
You have often heard me talk about mothers and homemakers with great respect and even honor.
And I'm not being sentimental about that at all.
I'm not like a Victorian talking about the angel in the house or some perfect ideal creature on a Hallmark card.
I'm talking about mothers and homemakers the way they actually are, sometimes flying on their last nerve and covered with all kinds of various substances that babies throw at them.
But I really do believe that these are people who are not just making human beings, but making beings human and making life human life.
And I'm very, very proud that my daughter, Faith Moore, is a genuinely first-rate example of that profession and happens to be in charge of two of the most adorable children ever invented.
I'm not just saying that because they're my grandsons.
This is an objective truth, repeatedly proven in peer-reviewed studies.
But I'm not bringing her on today as a mom because she's not your mom and doesn't care what you think of her as a mom.
I'm bringing her on today because she's written an absolutely delightful Christmas novel called Christmas Carol, Carol spelled with a K.
And while you're buying 17 or 18 copies of my novel, The House of Love and Death, for the tough guys in your life, I hope you will also pick up 11 or 20 copies of Christmas Carol for those possibly female women type people on your Christmas list who like funny, touching, romantic, and insightful books about real life except with ghosts.
It really is delightful.
I just loved it.
Faith, it's good to see you.
Thank you so much.
It's great to be here.
I have to tell you, and I, you know, this is put out by Daily Wire Books, and the cover is absolutely beautiful.
It is a really, it's really a work of art.
But it's not the book.
The book is kind of a Hallmark Christmas story.
It is.
It's a beautiful cover.
And I would not say one word against it, but you're absolutely right.
This is a Christmas story.
It takes place on Christmas Eve.
It has all of your Paul Markey Christmas things that you know and love and want in a good Christmas story.
And it is a retelling of one of the best Christmas stories ever, A Christmas Carol.
So yes, in fact, it is the Christmassiest of Christmas stories.
Now, give us a breakdown.
I don't want you to give away too much, obviously, but give us a breakdown of why you're telling a Christmas Carol again and what's the difference and what's going on.
Sure.
So it's a modern retelling of a Christmas Carol in which the Scrooge character has been reimagined as a workaholic mom named Carol.
That's why it's Carol with a K, Christmas Carol.
But her miserliness is not about her money like Ebenezer Scrooge's is.
It's about her time and how much time she chooses to spend or not spend with her family.
And on Christmas Eve, she goes through the same kind of past, present, and future supernatural experience that Ebenezer Scrooge goes on.
But in her journey, she learns to see and appreciate why she has become who she is, this workaholic mom, and also what she's missing back at home.
Because it's really a story about what happens when you have children and then you leave the home.
And in this particular case, she's such a workaholic that she's just really not there at all.
I mean, she's not even there on Christmas Eve when the story takes place.
She's gone into the office for a variety of reasons and she's left her kids to bake cookies at home.
So that's the story.
It follows kind of beat for beat the Dickens narrative, but it takes on this other idea, these other themes about motherhood and marriage and family and what it really means and kind of challenges the idea that you can have it all because you can't.
You know, it's funny.
Just before I came into the studio, I was talking to the lady in makeup and I was telling her a story about a girl back in the old days of the Daily Wire who had a baby.
And she was back in the office about six weeks later.
And I, as you know, have a big mouth and blurt things out.
And I saw her and I said, what are you doing here?
And she burst into tears.
And I thought, you know, maybe some people need to think this through.
I mean, the interesting thing about this, and it's always, it's always, not always, but it can be difficult talking to conservatives about fiction because they think, well, why am I reading a story if you just made it?
And they want to think that it's kind of a message.
But it's actually, I was really startled.
It was actually just a delightful story.
I laughed out loud throughout its incredibly, I had a couple of scenes that were incredibly touching.
I had to pretend not to be moved because I'm a man, but like, but it was genuine.
But it's not a message story.
It's really just a life story.
No, I don't think that a story like this, a novel, and you know this as well as I do or better, you know, that a story like this should have, should be setting out to tell a point, to make a point.
I think that really a story is a story and it's telling you, it tells you what it is going to tell you regardless of what the author meant.
You know, you're going to take from it what you take from it and go from there.
For me, you know, I don't really have a message to tell.
I'm not on my high horse.
I don't have a manifesto or anything that I'm trying to impart.
I just wanted to tell a story.
You know, my, I'm not, I'm not a pundit.
I'm not, I'm not somebody who, you know, wants you to do anything in particular.
I'm just a person who's living my life.
And my life is very much, as you said at the beginning, about being a mom.
My life is my kids.
My life is, you know, school pickup and, you know, whether it coincides with NAP and what we're going to do about that.
You know, it's whether we need a diaper change and what music class are we going to today.
That's, that's what my life is all about.
And I just happen to have some stories that I want to tell.
And, you know, this, this is the one that was on my heart at this particular time.
So that brings two questions into my mind.
The first is, well, first is, how do you do that?
How do you find the time?
I mean, I've met your children.
They're like incredibly rambunctious and they take up a lot of attention.
When do you write?
Well, they do.
And they are, in fact, my number one priority.
And, you know, if you, if you took writing out of my life, I would be sad, but I would continue because really the great work of my life is being a mom.
It's not my job.
It's my vocation.
It's the thing that I really feel called to do.
And it's the thing that I hope will be the thing at the end of my life that was my great work.
So that's what I'm spending most of my time doing.
But I do get about an hour or an hour and a half a day when my toddler is napping.
And that's when I wrote this book.
I really don't have any childcare in particular.
You know, we, for whatever reason, we live kind of far away from you and from mom and from Spencer and all of our family.
So we don't have a lot of help.
And so it's really just me.
It's me and the kids.
And so I, You know, but this is something I've always wanted to do: tell stories, you know, and I have this time in my life when you know my little one is asleep, and that's the time when I write.
And to me, it feels almost like a break.
It's a time to kind of like refocus my mind on thoughts, you know, the other thoughts, not like the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, but rather, you know, something that you know, maybe I is a little bit more, a little, little more intellectual than that.
And that's when I, that's when I write.
And so that's that's how I was able to write this book.
So, the other question that springs to mind, and you're not a pundit, you're not trying to push any ideas on people, you're not actually thinking along those lines at all.
How did you endure growing up in a house with me and Spencer?
That's like, how is that possible?
Yeah, well, well, I mean, well, one thing that is true is that, you know, you really gave me the gift of knowing that telling stories is something that you might aspire to grow up to do.
You know, I think if I had grown up in a different household, I wouldn't have really known that this kind of drive that I feel, this thing inside me that I feel I need to kind of create these narratives and these worlds and these people.
I think I wouldn't have known that you could, you could be a grown-up that does that and that that could be a job.
So you you gave me that gift.
But I think the thing that I had to figure out about myself living in our family, where as you say, you know, you, you know, I love you both, but I don't understand half the time what you people are talking about.
I mean, you sit down, you sit down and you get going.
And, you know, it's like, I mean, Plato and whoever else doesn't even begin to describe it.
I have no idea half the time what you guys are talking about.
And I, you know, I love to sit and listen to you.
I feel like, I feel like the little, I feel like a little girl kind of at her father's knee even now.
Like I'm just listening and I think it's like, it's lovely and whatever you're talking about, wow, that's really smart and fantastic.
And I'm sure that it's very important, but I don't, I don't always understand.
And I think growing up, I had to learn that about myself, you know, that I'm not, I'm not, in a lot of ways, I'm not really an intellectual.
And, you know, all of the kind of the books that I was kind of supposed to enjoy or supposed to understand, I had to come at them slantwise.
You know, this, this book, you know, Christmas Carol came not necessarily from originally loving Dickens's Christmas Carol, but from loving the Alistair Sim version of the movie that we watch, you know, all the time, even now and when I was a kid, I did that all the time.
I sort of come in slantwise to these things that you guys were sort of talking about through like a movie or a play or something because I couldn't really pick up the books and understand them right away.
And I think the gift was that I know that that's what's important.
Those big ideas and the things that you guys were always kind of talking about and hashing out, even if I didn't get the references or whatever, like I get that the culture is important, that stories are important, you know, those kinds of things.
But I had to learn that my life is smaller than that.
The things that I want and the things that I am good at and can do take place within the confines within the circle of my marriage and my home and my children.
And that's really what where my great work is.
Yearning For Stories00:17:42
It's here with my children and all of the things that matter to them and that matter to helping them to grow up into the people that they want to become, and I have some stories that I want to tell, and so I think it wasn't.
It wasn't like horrible, it was, it was great.
You know you, you taught me so many things, but I also had to kind of learn the ways in which I was different and and I think you know yeah, you and Spencer are so similar in that way and I had to kind of learn how, how i'm different, Guess what?
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And by now, you're just begging.
You're begging.
Please, please, please tell me how to spell Clavin.
It's K-L-A-V-A-N.
There are no ways in.
You know, I have to say, when you say that, you know, you like hearing me talk, but you have no idea what I'm talking about.
It sounds so much like your mother.
It's kind of shocking.
But, you know, you mentioned something in there that I don't want to get lost.
And because you mentioned it in the acknowledgments, which I thank you for.
You said that I made it seem possible to you that you could write and actually be paid to do that.
You know, when I was growing up, my dad was a DJ and he would just get up every morning at three o'clock in the morning and get in his car and tootle off into the city and do his job and then come back.
And it gave me the same impression that one could make a living in the creative world, that it was a job.
And I was kind of shocked, I have to say, when I found out, oh, no, it's actually not.
It's actually a crapshoot where you're risking your entire life and career on this on this crazy thing.
So I have to admit, I feel a little guilty about this.
You know, I feel that like somewhere in our past, like in Poland somewhere, like some rabbi Kalovinsky burned a witch.
And as she was going up in flames, she said, I curse you that you will never have a doctor or an engineer and you only have artists and writers and thinkers.
And I wonder, I mean, do you feel this is a gift or do you feel sort of like me?
I feel it's a gift, but it's also a burden.
I think that because I already get to do the thing that's the thing that I want to do, which is raise my children and have my family and my home, I think that it's only a gift.
You know, I think that it's true that I really think that people should only write if they absolutely have to.
You know, I think it's not, it's not for the faint of heart.
You know, it's not something that you can just sort of do.
It's something that you are called to do in some ways is tell stories.
And so I think that like that I would never have lived a life in which I didn't tell them.
And so it certainly is a gift to know that I could tell them and perhaps get them out into the world in some way and have people read them.
But I think I get to be kind of absolved of that sort of inner fire, that ambition that's kind of like, that can kind of consume you when, you know, when you're not maybe getting what you want sort of career-wise or, you know, in terms of like acclaim or whatever, if you're not getting that, I get to be kind of absolved of that because I'm already doing the thing that I want to do and the thing that I love.
And I think, you know, motherhood, sometimes people try to put motherhood into the category of a job.
And the way the reason that they're doing that is because they feel correctly that women are kind of being told that motherhood devalues you and it makes you kind of not as successful or valuable in society.
And they want to say like, well, no, like my job, you know, your job is being the CEO.
Well, my job is being a mom and that's equally valuable.
And of course, it is equally and perhaps even more valuable, but it isn't a job because it would be a terrible job.
There's no pay.
You don't get a raise.
There's no kind of year-end review.
You don't get any kind of thoughtful, constructive feedback.
So, you know, I get to kind of live this life that is the dream life, the thing that I sort of always aspired to be.
You know, in the book, there's a character whose aspiration is this.
She wants to just, you know, meet a nice man and have a bajillion babies and live somewhere.
And the Carol character says, that's very sweet, but that's not an ambition.
But it is and was mine.
And so I think that, you know, I get to be kind of absolved of that, of the, of the curse part of that.
And I just get the blessing.
You know, it's fascinating when you say that.
We're talking again to my daughter, Faith Moore, and her book is called Christmas Carol, Carol with a K.
It's available.
It's available now, right?
It should be available just coming out now.
Through the magic of the fact that when this comes out, yes, it is available now.
All right.
And, you know, it's kind of amazing to me that this vocation, whatever you want to call it, this occupation, which is the center of human life.
It is the engine of human life.
It's the manufacturer, the factory of human life, not just of human life physically, but also of souls and making people into individuals, that it has become a point where you almost have to be defiant to do it, where you almost have to kind of shake your fist at the world and say, like, I don't care what you say.
I know this is a value.
Do you find that to be the case?
I mean, do you find that you need, I mean, you've always been able to find your own way and you've always been very remarkable in saying, no, this is what I want and this is what I'm going to do.
But still, I mean, it's almost countercultural.
It kind of is.
And I think there is definitely this narrative right now that, and for a long time, that women have to grapple with, which is that if you don't work outside the home, if you don't follow a kind of trajectory that is a sort of career trajectory, then you are somehow sort of opting out of your given path.
You are supposed to be X, Y, and Z. You were supposed to have a career.
You were supposed to be very successful.
You were supposed to be the CEO of this company.
And if you don't do that, it's kind of like you're letting down feminism.
You're letting down other women by kind of choosing to take a more traditional path.
And I think in a lot of ways, that's actually what the book, Christmas Carol, is about.
It's kind of about a woman confronted with the sort of narrative that she created for herself or that society created for her and Being allowed to see what she's giving up in order to do that.
And I think that for a lot of women, they don't question it necessarily.
They don't question, you know, what they're being told.
Like, oh, you go to college, you graduate, you, you know, you get a job, you rise in the ranks, et cetera, et cetera.
And then somewhere along the way, somehow, you marry and you have some kids.
But I also think that what happens then is if you uphold your job as kind of the thing you're supposed to be doing, then your children become this like really annoying distraction because they need you.
And so, you know, all of the attention that they need and that they seek and crave becomes kind of like, oh, like, what do I do with you?
Like, okay, daycare, okay, like, whatever.
And instead of kind of like, wait, stopping and taking a step back, you know, as the Carol character gets to do, she gets to kind of take the step back and see and then maybe reevaluating your life.
Because the wonderful thing about the Scrooge story actually is that in the Dickens story and in this one too, you know, Scrooge goes through this whole supernatural experience that you would think would kind of change everything.
And there are these sort of magical things that happen to him.
But at the end, materially, he's exactly the same guy.
You know, he's still really old.
He's still, his fiancé is still gone.
His nephew grew up without him.
All of these things are true.
And yet, his perspective has shifted and his priorities have shifted.
And I think, you know, that's partly what made me think of this story to write is kind of what if, what if women stepped outside the narrative and sort of took a look at it and took a look at what they were missing or why they got here and kind of shifted their perspective in some way.
What would they do?
What changes would they make?
And, you know, I think that's something that we really need in real life also.
Yeah, you know, first of all, I think that is part of the genius of a Christmas Carol is that it is about what in Christianity is called metanoia, just a change of heart.
And how remarkable, what a remarkable thing that does to your life.
Obviously, the movie It's a Wonderful Life, which is just a Christmas Carol in reverse.
It's like the mirror image of a Christmas Carol does exactly the same thing.
It doesn't really change your material situation, but it is really remarkable.
And there's this thing on the right, there's this thing among conservatives where we now make fun of girls who have been caught up in this narrative and whose lives have been, in some ways and minds have been ruined by it.
We make fun of them instead of going after the culture that made them.
I was just at my church at a party and talked to this woman who just said, they told me that I could always get a husband, but it's really the other way around.
Because they basically tell women to put their, build their timeline on a man's timeline.
You go out and get money and then you can settle down and then you can have a family because you can afford it.
But it's really the other way around.
You should go out.
If you're a woman, you should go out and have a family and then there'll be time to do other things later on as you get older.
Yeah.
Well, that's right.
I mean, in the book, it says, you know, there is no later.
That's the thing that she realizes is that there is no later.
You know, this moment of, you know, your child doing this one thing or whatever, it will never come again.
And so, you know, when her work is done, you know, when she feels that she's achieved whatever she was going to achieve, there won't be time to come back because the children will be grown and gone.
And so I think, I mean, that's kind of the perspective shift is that if within the course of the entirety of a woman's life, if God willing, your life is long, the percentage of that time that is when your children are small is very short.
You know, your kids are home with you full time for, let's say, three years, and then they start to go off to some nursery school, and then they get a little bit more school.
And then, you know, and then before you really know it, they're graduating and they're off to college and that's the end of it.
So I think there's no reason really to think of your life in terms of, well, I can either have children or I can have a career and that's it, you know, and I have to pick.
You don't have to pick.
You know, I mean, look at what's happening here, right?
I have two kids, an almost nine-year-old, an almost three-year-old.
My three-year-old, you know, is just kind of starting to start a little bit of school a couple of mornings a week.
And, you know, when he was very small, I wrote this book, right?
And I wrote it in his nap time.
And I was, I was 100% here, 100% here for him.
And I was able to write this book.
And now, you know, he's doing a little bit more and a little bit more.
And eventually I'll have all kinds of time.
And I can, you know, do all sorts of things.
And I could even have a job outside the home when they're all grown and gone if I choose.
It's not that motherhood is a complete amputation of everything that makes you you.
It's not that you have to give up all of your ambitions and your creativity and the other things that you want.
It's that it's a reorganizing of your priorities because this time really is so small and it's finite.
They're growing up.
That's their job.
They're supposed to grow and they're supposed to go away from you.
And that's what you're doing.
So why not be there?
Yeah, no, it's amazing.
And I mean, there are the problems.
I wrote about this in The Truth and Beauty, and Mary Harrington has written about it in her book: that, you know, it used to be that there were more cottage industries so that women had more could share economics, but that's coming back with the computer.
I mean, as you have, as you are living proof, I mean, there are things you can do in that time, in that extra time you have.
Now, one of the things that was personally moving to me reading this book was thinking, as you said, about our home ritual, which remains a ritual to this day, that every year we have to sit around and watch in utter silence the Christmas Carol with Alistair Sim, because there really is, except for the book, there really is no other Christmas.
All the other ones are just imitations of the Alistair Sim version.
How big an effect did that have on you?
Well, I would like to first acknowledge that, yes, it must occur in absolute silence.
There must not be any ice in your cup because lest it clink.
If you have a cold, please don't come because no nose blowing is allowed.
It is an absolute silent ritual that we must all partake of every Christmas time.
Of course, of course, yeah.
Yes, which is true.
There is no talking in me.
But I think, well, it's certainly something that had a huge effect on me, obviously.
Beginning, I think, with watching it too young and having to run away screaming and not watch it for several years because of how terrible.
Yes, that crust of Christmas yet to come is frightening, right?
Well, it wasn't that actually.
It was before that, before that, just in the very beginning when Scrooge is walking up the stairs and Marley is going, Scrooge.
Yeah, that's very frightening.
I had to watch, but I'm also the child that had to be taken out of the movie theater because the MGM lion roars.
So I understand that maybe it's not scary for everyone.
So use your own judgment for your own children.
But anyway, so that it was obviously very kind of emotionally gripping for me.
But I think, you know, we literally watch it every year.
I mean, even now, so sort of without fail.
And I think that it's something that's really, it just sort of imprinted itself on my heart.
You know, like my husband knows that if I'm saying something that doesn't make any sense, it's a quote from a Christmas carol.
Like if I'm just like blurting something out that sounds really strange, it's a quote from that movie.
And, you know, we sort of use it.
There are sort of touchstones from the movie in our family that we kind of use as shorthand, you know, for different emotional situations.
So I think, you know, I think it made sense for me to reach for it when I wanted to tell a story that was sort of deeply emotional for me.
You know, when I wanted to kind of tell a story about motherhood and about kind of gratitude and forgiveness and the joy of the joy of finally kind of having these children.
And, you know, I mean, for me, as you know, like having children was not an easy thing for me.
I mean, there was a time when I thought, you know, I wasn't going to have any children.
There was a time when I thought I was only going to get to have one.
And, you know, for me, this story in a lot of ways is kind of about, you know, the ways in which we forget to be grateful just for the fact of our children, for the fact of our family, and kind of remembering that.
So I think it made sense for me to kind of reach for this story that is so kind of part of our family and so part of my emotional lexicon when I wanted to tell a story like that.
Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Every family has little sayings that they use and repeated jokes and running gags.
And it must be 30% of ours come are direct quotes from that movie.
Oh, I think so.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So what do you, what are you planning to do now?
Do you know?
Do you know where you'll go from here?
Well, I would really like to write a whole bunch more novels.
I think that's what you mean, right?
Like what am I writing about?
Yeah.
No, this is what I've always wanted to do since I was a little girl is write novels.
And I can remember sitting in, you know, in our house on my first little computer kind of typing up, you know, with the Microsoft paperclip guy being like, that's not right or whatever, whatever.
You know, I remember kind of like, I've always wanted to do this.
So yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm writing something else now, which is kind of in its very early stages.
I'm, it's kind of, it's another, it's another love story.
Exploring New Love Stories00:02:24
I want to write about, you know, I want to write about real people, men and women, and, you know, women who are strong because they're feminine, men who are masculine because they take care of them.
So, you know, that's kind of what I'm exploring and doing.
And that's, you know, that's hopefully there will be many, many more to come.
This next one is kind of You've Got Mail meets Syrino de Bergerac, meets Pete Leopold.
So stay tuned.
All right.
Yeah, well, that is countercultural.
Where can people now?
You also do editing services.
You're an excellent editor.
I just was talking to my friend John Nolte, who has a book out.
He's going to come on soon.
And he was saying that you saved personally, single-handedly saved his novel, which was really nice of you.
I'm not that, you know, I don't like him that much, but I think that was really nice.
Well, that's very kind of him.
He wrote an excellent book called Light of Time and everyone should read it.
It was great.
And I'm joking.
He's a great guy.
Where do people find you?
Well, I have a website, faithkmore.com, faithkmore.com.
I'm also on Twitter or X or whatever it's called, also at Faith K Moore.
So those are the two best places to find me.
All right.
You know, again, my daughter, who I am never, I never forget to be grateful for, is Faith Moore, M-O-O-R-E.
The book is Christmas Carol.
I guarantee you, obviously, you know, I'm so proud of my daughter and love her so much.
I would lie like crazy if the book were no good.
But I promise you, I am not lying.
It is absolutely delightful.
I laughed out loud.
I won't say I, you know, cried, but I sort of choked up a little bit.
My voice got a little thick at times from time to time.
And no, it really is.
It's a delightful book, Faith.
And it's a great job.
And you did a great job.
And I like the grandkids too.
They're also.
Well, thank you.
Thank you for all of those things and for everything always.
It was a pleasure.
Thank you.
All right.
I will see you in a few days for Thanksgiving.
That sounds great.
Come on over.
All right.
I'll talk to you soon.
It's great to see you.
Okay.
Bye, you two.
One more time.
That was Faith Moore.
The book is Christmas Carol.
It is a wonderful Christmas gift.
It really is.
And even though the cover is lovely, it's much more hallmark-y and delightful than the cover suggests.
Come to the show on Friday for the Andrew Clavin Show, and we will have more to come and talk about more stuff.
In fact, we'll talk about all the stuff on the Andrew Clavin Show.