Andrew Clavin’s Ep. 905 skewers the left’s "progressive plan" to exploit racial tensions, framing riots as deliberate chaos while praising Trump’s National Guard response and calling for Antifa arrests under Bill Barr. Biden’s "shoot-to-wound" police training is mocked as impractical, while Sheriff Grady Judd’s armed citizen resistance is hailed as necessary defense. Jonah Goldberg clashes with Clavin over media bias, dismissing Kaylee McEnenney’s press dodges as "boob bait" and rejecting "Alinsky envy," arguing truth matters more than partisan loyalty—yet the episode ends by reinforcing Trump’s base as the only bulwark against what it calls an "American apocalypse." [Automatically generated summary]
After several days of peaceful protests that have left major cities in flames, Democrats have released a new position paper entitled Helping Black Americans by helping white Americans feel better about not helping black Americans.
The Democrats say the paper lays out an ambitious, progressive plan to continue doing exactly what they've been doing until the entire country is in ashes.
Bain, the Batman comic supervillain and chairman of the Democrat National Committee, released the paper to those of his minions who call themselves the press in an attractive folder with a cover depicting a gothic scene of chaos captioned, Our Vision for the Future.
The plan includes the following points.
One, young white men will dance to exciting rap music, glorifying black violence and degrading black women, and then return home to their moms and dads to prepare for college, while young black men in broken homes learn to glorify violence and think badly of women.
Two, white men will apologize to blacks for generations of bigotry and then return home to their wives and children while blacks return to their crime-filled neighborhoods thinking to themselves, wow, they sure apologized to us, didn't they?
Three, elites will teach blacks that their country was founded on racism and despises them, so they have no chance to have a good life through education, hard work, and good behavior.
Then the elites will return to the great jobs they earned through education, hard work, and good behavior, while blacks despair because they think their country despises them.
Four, whites will encourage blacks to demonstrate about things everyone already agrees about and will then encourage violence at those demonstrations to show how woke they are while destroying black people's property and reputation.
And five, whites will encourage blacks to vote against Donald Trump, who might saddle them with those nasty jobs working for the white man for money and dignity.
After releasing the document, Bain urged all Americans to continue wearing a mask like his to protect from disease and to represent ultimate evil.
Trigger warning, I'm Andrew Clavin, and this is the Andrew Clavin Show.
I'm the hunky-dunky, life is tickety-boo.
Birds are winging, also singing hunky-dunkity.
Ship-shaped it-topsy, the world is zippity-zing.
It's a wonderful day.
Hoorah, hooray!
It makes me want to sing.
Oh, hurrah, hooray.
Oh, hooray, hurrah.
All right, I hope you're going to the YouTube channel where all my openings are available.
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Please subscribe there.
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We are also tracking your comments.
Here is one from Nick Porter who says, I'm seriously, I don't blame you, Nick.
I'm seriously worried about the next Clavenless weekend.
Last weekend, half of America's cities were burning.
So what's next?
War with China.
Hashtag save the Clavin.
You know, when we started the Clavenless weekend, it was because every single time I took my weekend, something fell apart, it's back.
And I'm sorry, but you're on your own.
Obviously, with riots and lootings in progress, the first and most important thing is to stop the violence and restore order.
And I support Donald Trump's urging governors to take care of business and use the National Guard.
But I pray to God it doesn't come to a larger military presence.
I don't want to see large numbers of federal soldiers deployed against American civilians.
This has happened before in limited ways to stop the L.A. Rodney King riots and to protect civil rights marchers and end the riots after Martin Luther King's assassination.
And once back in the day by Hoover to disperse veterans who are asking for their bonus pay for World War I, which was an ugly event.
I can't help fearing that in this case, too, it would only serve to escalate a bad situation.
What does have to happen is that Antifa, Antifa, has to be destroyed.
If the FBI has finished spying on presidential candidates and harassing combat veterans, thank you very much, it may find itself with enough time on its hands to go after these domestic terrorists and make some arrests.
They have the power, according to Andrew McCarthy, the former federal prosecutor who helped break up an Islamic terrorist group in the 90s.
Writing at National Review, McCarthy says, quote, there is an extensive panoply of laws at the state and federal level by which such groups can be investigated, prosecuted, and otherwise thwarted, unquote.
Attorney General Bill Barr has said he would put those laws to work, and he absolutely should and quickly.
Anyone who organized violence, handed out a brick, or set a fire or attacked a cop should be rounded up, track them by their phones and license plates, infiltrate their organizations, jail their leaders.
If these communist thugs feel that the justice system is unleashed unfairly against blacks, this would be a dandy way to restore balance by putting some of their white backsides in federal prison where they belong.
Even five or six arrests of key leaders would send most of these boys back to their parents' basements.
It has to be done.
Let our disgusting press, and they are disgusting, let our disgusting press glorify these lowlifes.
Let our idiot Hollywood celebrities, and they are idiots, let them send these people money.
But it's time for the DOJ to roll these mothers up and put them away for as long as they possibly can.
I will not weep for a single one of them.
I know the thing you're worried about with the city on fire and with the virus out there and now nobody's wearing any masks.
That's over now.
That whole thing is done.
Maybe the rioters have done us a favor.
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So the left has left America to burn.
I mean, if you watch TV, academia, journalists, Democrats, and radicals, they are now the four horsemen of what they hope will be an American apocalypse.
And Trump finally responded yesterday, and I'll get to that in just a minute.
And it was a good, it was an excellent response.
It was a little late, in my opinion.
He should have come out earlier, but it was a good response.
You know it's a good response because the media are going nuts about it, trying to erase it.
All they want is to encourage this rioting to continue and to tell you, to tell you that you're not seeing it, that it's not there.
The left is openly saying, when I say the left, I mean academia, journalists, Democrats, and radicals, they're all saying the same thing.
And tyrants overseas, all saying the same thing.
They are telling us this is some kind of progress.
This is what progress looks like.
This is great.
Which is a lie.
I mean, this is never progress.
It is always a bad thing.
And somehow America deserves this.
And somehow, if you think looting and burning cities is evil, you are a bad person or you're a racist.
By the way, by the way, the racism of the left is absolutely mind-boggling.
When they talk about black people, they're talking about looters and criminals.
They're never talking about the victims of criminals.
They're never talking about business owners and workers and soldiers and familymen and entrepreneurs.
You know why?
Because they ain't black.
That's what Joe Biden told them.
You ain't black unless you are these guys.
These are the people they think are black people, and they think that's okay.
That's okay.
We need to listen to them.
We need to kneel down and bow and say, oh, forgive us that you're looting.
Forgive us that you're burning.
Listen, that's not black people.
I'm sorry.
That is not the majority of black people.
It is not the best of the people in this country, many of whom are black, many of whom are all kinds of different colors.
We have terrific, wonderful people in this country of all kinds of colors.
But all the left does is use these people as tools of destruction.
And we shouldn't be surprised because they did it when the Islamists bombed New York.
When they destroyed the World Trade Center, they sided with the Islamists.
They told us, oh, if you say this is a bad thing, if you say this is not as good a religion as Christianity, oh, what an evil person you are.
And you know what?
I have obviously nothing against peaceful Islamic people worshiping their God as they see fit.
I don't think any of us had that.
But there was a very large and is a very large violent arm of this religion.
And if we don't condemn it, the good people get swarmed by it.
And it's the same thing.
It's the same thing with black neighborhoods.
If we don't condemn the black criminals, if the police don't go in and arrest black criminals, who the hell do you think gets killed?
80% of the victims are black.
What the hell are they talking about?
The racism of the left is so thick, so deep, that if blacks don't wake up and get rid of these people who are running their cities, they are going to be the ones who suffer.
It really is sad.
All right, let's take a look at what Trump did.
He finally responded.
He got on the phone with the governors and first told them that they really had to pull themselves together.
Have we got a cut of him telling them that they've got to dominate the streets?
You have to dominate.
And you have to arrest people and you have to try people and they have to go to jail for long periods of time.
And those kids are all on camera.
They're wise guys.
And the women's dominate.
If you don't dominate your city and your state, they're going to walk away with you.
So all the governors came out and they were, he was mean.
He was mean to us.
Meanwhile, the cities are burning down and they're telling us that everything is fine, everything's great.
So after he did that, he then came out and gave a speech to the people in the Rose Garden and basically said, we understand.
It was a good speech.
He said, we understand that this is a bad thing that happened in Minneapolis.
We stand with the people who are protesting peacefully.
We're going to investigate this.
The DOJ is on it.
But he said, this can't go on.
The disorder can't go on.
And we are going to end them.
This is, I think, cut 25.
I am mobilizing all available federal resources, civilian and military, to stop the rioting and looting, to end the destruction and arson, and to protect the rights of law-abiding Americans, including your Second Amendment rights.
Therefore, the following measures are going into effect immediately.
First, we are ending the riots and lawlessness that has spread throughout our country.
We will end it now.
And then he said, if you don't use all the resources, if you don't call out the National Guard, I will call out the Army, which he can do through the Insurrection Act.
The last time it was done, as I said in my opening, was the Rodney King riots in the 90s.
You know, you don't want to see that.
I don't want to see Americans face off against Americans.
Nobody should want to see that.
Nobody should want to see that.
And nobody should want to see this looting, too.
But they do.
I mean, this is the thing.
On our side, we would like it to stop.
We would like law and order restored.
On their side, they think, no, no, no, this is fine.
And I will show you.
I'll show you them saying this.
I'm not just making this up.
So then Trump did one of his, like I said, he was a little late, but it was an act of absolute genius.
He walked out in front of his security team with Bill Barr, the attorney general behind him, and they were surrounding him.
I mean, he was surrounded by security, but he was just out in the front, walked out across the park and went to the church that had been burned down, St. John's, and stood before it holding up a Bible.
Now, the press immediately, they knew this made every governor, every Democrat governor in the country look like a candy ass.
I mean, it made every Democrat governor in the country look like a weakling.
He came in striding out there.
Now, of course, moments before, while he was speaking, you could hear the explosions in Lafayette Park as the demonstrators were throwing fireworks at police.
You could hear them going off.
It was like while the President of the United States was speaking, you're this boom, boom, boom.
So they cleared him out.
Now, the police say we didn't use tear gas, we used smoke bombs, and we didn't even know Trump was coming out, but we cleared them out.
The press is saying they used tear gas on peaceful demonstrators as if these were not peaceful.
This is the meme they keep throwing out here that it's all peaceful.
Play the montage from the Media Research Center of the news covering this, how peaceful it all was.
Many of these protests have been largely peaceful.
Mostly peaceful.
Oh, boy.
Oh, boy.
I'm looking at those live pictures next to you, and they seem very peaceful.
There are always folks on the fringes of protests that do the things that we don't like.
A few people who break a few windows and burn a few cars.
They just threw something on fire, Chris, a firecracker.
No one should be destructing property and that sort of thing, but I understand the anger.
This is amazing.
New York, New York is in ruins.
Rudy Giuliani left them the greatest city on earth.
He cleaned that city up.
It was beautiful.
And, you know, they kept it that way.
Farat Bloomberg kept it that way.
He made sure the police kept it that way.
They brought in this communist de Blasio, and what did it take him?
It took him like four years to destroy it.
It's in ashes.
It's in ashes.
Even Andrew Cuomo, who has been just an absolute jerk about this, even Cuomo said, Bill de Blasio didn't do his job and he may have to be, I may have to take over the city.
Even he said it, because I mean, de Blasio is going, oh, like it's peaceful.
You know, when they say this is mostly peaceful, if a guy takes five minutes to walk up to a cop and then shoots him in the back of the head, as one of these clowns did in Vegas, and then walks away and it takes him 10 minutes.
They say, well, that's mostly peaceful.
It was five minutes walking up, ten minutes walking away.
It was only a second.
The shooting was only a second.
So it was mostly peaceful.
That's how they're judging these riots.
If your city is in ruins, the demonstrations aren't mostly peaceful.
Preaching the Gospel of Leftism00:06:10
And I'll tell you something else.
The people who went out there to protest about the George Floyd killing, they're not there anymore.
I would almost guarantee it.
These are all looters who are thugs and criminals.
And it's all the guys who know how to use them, the Antifa types, who know how to use these thugs and criminals to do their dirty work for them.
And those are the ones who should be hunted down and they should be hunted down in their homes.
They should be infiltrated in their organizations.
So then Trump stands before a church.
And oh my Lord, you know, you can always tell how effective Trump is being by how crazy the left goes.
So, oh, the absolute shock that he would use, stand with a Bible, a Bible, Donald Trump, who is the Antichrist.
How could he say, you know, it doesn't even make a sense.
How could the Antichrist stand with a Bible and not just catch fire in front of a church?
The bishop of this church, and by the way, the pastor at this Episcopal Church used to be my pastor up in Santa Barbara.
He's a good guy.
He's a very bright guy, but he is, you know, he's a lefty.
But the bishop went out and condemned him.
Let's play what she said first, and then I'll talk about that in a sec.
Let me be clear.
The president just used a Bible, the most sacred text of the Judeo-Christian tradition, and one of the churches of my diocese without permission as a backdrop for a message antithetical to the teachings of Jesus and everything that our churches stand for.
And to do so, as you just said, he sanctioned the use of tear gas by police officers in riot gear to clear the churchyard.
I am outraged.
Now, let me tell you something about the Episcopal bishopric, right?
Every single one.
They're Stalinists.
They are Stalinists.
They hate this country.
They hate freedom.
They are Stalinists.
The reason I don't go to an ⁇ I was baptized into the Episcopal Church, and not that long ago either.
I was baptized into the Episcopal Church.
The reason I don't go is they have been taken over by leftists.
They are not preaching the gospel of Christ.
They are preaching the gospel of Karl Marx.
They really are.
They really are.
And so then she comes out and the news guys are saying, well, wow, that really, these are people who do social justice work.
Social justice work is garbage.
So if you have to put the word social in front of justice, it's because you're not delivering justice.
The bishops of the Episcopal Church are radical leftists and they are not preaching the gospel of Christ.
If they, you know, by the way, if they were radical leftists and they were preaching the gospel of Christ, I'd still be going to an Episcopal church.
I don't care what their politics are.
I believe that God is above politics, that God loves us all.
He loves both sides.
I don't know why, but then I'm not God.
But the thing is, I believe he does love both sides.
And if you're a radical priest in your politics, but you come in and preach the gospel, I'm fine with it.
I will sit through that.
Just the same as if you're further to the right than me, I'll listen to you preach the gospel.
They don't preach the gospel.
They do not preach the gospel.
Anytime, anytime I wanted in a church, in an Episcopal church, I could stand up and say, show me, show me in this book, in this Bible, where that is.
She's got no more idea what's in that Bible.
If Trump has never read the Bible, she's got no more idea what's in it than he does.
So let me just play for you one thing.
This is from an old clip from 2014 of a Milwaukee police chief when he, a guy had been shot by the police and there was a hearing and he was on the phone during the hearing and he came out and the press said, challenged him.
You can hear and listen to his response.
What was your response to some of the people that thought you were being disrespectful by being on your phone and not being attentive to them?
Well, I was on my phone and yes, that's true.
I was following developments with a five-year-old little girl sitting on her dad's lap who just got shot in the head by a drive-by shooting.
And if some of the people here gave a good god about the victimization of people in this community by crime, I take some of their invective more seriously.
The greatest racial disparity in the city of Milwaukee is getting shot and killed.
Hello.
80% of my homicide victims every year are African American.
80% of our aggravated assault victims are African American.
80% of our shooting victims who survived their shooting are African American.
Now, they know all about the last three people that have been killed by the Milwaukee Police Department over the course of the last several years.
There's not one of them can name one of the last three homicide victims we've had in this city.
Who do you think gets hurt when the police are demonized?
Who do you think gets hurt?
They did a study at Harvard where leftists did a study that showed that the police do not kill black criminals more than they kill white criminals, right?
When people are arrested for violent crime, if you are white, you are more likely to be killed after being arrested for a violent crime than if you are black, okay?
That's what the Harvard people found.
They were absolutely stunned.
But what they also found is when you do this to the police, the police withdraw and thousands more black people die of black on black crime.
That's what these guys are supporting because they're racist.
The left is racism.
Leftism is racism.
There are racists on the right, but leftism is racism, and this is evidence of it.
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Write Clavin in there.
How did you hear about us box so they know we sent you and then go to the box that says, how do you spell clavin and see if you can get it right because there are no E's in Clavin.
Why This Protest Matters00:10:01
It's K-L-A-V-A.
I just make it look listening.
Hey, you know, let me point out that the mailbag is tomorrow.
I forgot to promo it, but I want to remind you the mailbag is tomorrow.
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All right.
So let's take a look at the press.
Before I do, I just want to play this clip of George Floyd's brother Terrence talking about the violence.
So this is a guy who is the brother of the person who was killed, which is a tragic thing.
This was a bad, it looked to me, it looks to everybody like a bad cop action.
I haven't heard a single cop defend this action.
Not one.
This is the reason I kind of wonder, what are you protesting?
You're supposed to protest when people aren't listening to you, but they are listening.
They know.
This is the kind of thing that the police chief goes to bed at night, lies awake at night saying, please, God, don't let this happen.
It did happen.
The guy's under arrest.
Here's George Floyd's brother Terrence talking about.
I feel sometimes I get angry.
I want to bust some heads too.
I want to just go crazy.
But I'm here to just, my brother wasn't about that.
My brother was about peace.
My brother, he was a, he was a, you'll hear a lot of people say he was a gentle giant.
You know, you'll see him come in, you'll say, oh, wow, he's a big dude.
But then when you talk to him, when you speak to him, he's all about positivity, motivation, you know, and I just can't believe he's gone.
Yeah, I mean, so he's angry.
He gets it.
We all get it.
I mean, we're all angry.
You know, nobody wants to see this happen.
But he gets it, and he's calling for peace.
Now, let's see what the rest of the left is doing.
And remember, the left is the academy, the press, the Democrats, and the radicals.
And I already told you, I think Antifa and their like should be rounded up and put in prison.
That is against the law.
It's terrorism.
They should be put away.
I just want to play, I mean, I don't know.
I haven't been watching what they're playing in the background, but I hope they've played some of what's going on in New York.
Manhattan, one of the most beautiful shops, the most beautiful shopping street in the world.
Nothing else like it except the Champs-Élysées in Paris, Fifth Avenue.
It is boarded up.
It was looted.
It was absolutely unfettered.
The NYPD seemed to have stood down and let it happen.
And that's on the mayor.
Here's the mayor, Mayor Bill de Blasio, telling people about what's happening.
Even in a day where thousands of people were out expressing their views, expressing their frustration, their pain, their anger, their deep desire for change in locations all over the city, overall what we saw was overwhelmingly peaceful demonstration.
I'm definitely going to address some of the things we saw late in the evening that were not peaceful and not acceptable.
But if you talk about the reality of the full day, we saw more and more the peaceful demonstrators coming to the fore.
Mostly peaceful riots.
Mostly, it's mostly, the riots are mostly peaceful.
And again, I have no idea what that means.
Maybe it means they wait till the sun goes down.
So they wait an hour and then they riot for half an hour.
So it's mostly peaceful.
You know, it's mostly peaceful.
You know what it's like?
It's like when a baby who hides it, puts his hands over his face and thinks he disappears and then he goes peekaboo.
You know, that's what it's like.
They think if they put their hands over their face, they disappear.
It is unbelievable.
They think they're going to gaslight us.
But that's even not the worst.
The worst is to go on the press, to go on CNN and listen to Chris Cuomo talk about what a great thing rioting is.
Do we have that clip?
Leaders must end the riots now.
You see, this is a perfect example of a very intelligent man saying something that doesn't make sense.
You can't look past why this is happening and say this must stop.
Stop this right now.
But I'm not going to say anything about why this is happening.
I'll say raw emotion is a natural result of injustice.
So if you know there were injustice, if you don't address the injustice, why would they go home?
Why is this wrong when you won't address the wrong that led to this?
Do you understand the logic of that?
That's our problem with leadership right now.
The president's saying, you have to dominate these people, dominate them, dominate them.
This is a movement.
You must crush it or it will grow.
What a jerk.
What a jerk.
He goes on to talk about all the great riots that have really done wonderful, wonderful things for people.
And they keep referencing the gay riot outside that bar.
I can't remember the name of it now.
What is it called?
Stonewall or something like that, which was really a bunch of gay guys poured out into the street.
There was not a lot of rioting.
There was not a lot of looting.
Absolute nonsense.
This is absolute nonsense.
On CNN, they had this military guy, Anderson Cooper, had on this ex-military guy, John Russell.
Let's listen to what he has to say about Donald Trump.
The suggestion will be that the Congress and the Senate need to come together and put some constraints on this president and the use of force as we move forward to the election.
Our troops need to stand steady.
The Congress and the Senate need to understand this man has control of over 3,000 nuclear weapons and thousands of jet planes, 11 aircraft carriers, and 2 million people in uniform.
They need to put a check on what he said.
CNN, Trump is going to nuke New York.
First of all, how would you know at this point?
What would the difference be?
So on CNN, Trump is going to nuke New York.
In reality, in real world, remember real world?
People are looting and rioting and burning things down, and they don't care.
Not only do they not care, they're making excuses for it.
Let me just play one more example.
Cut 16, Sarah Sidner talking.
This is supposedly a reporter reporting.
I know people see violence and think that people are just taking advantage of the situation.
And there may be some people who are.
I don't know that every single person is doing this born out of pain, but I can tell you many people are.
We've seen it.
They don't know what to do with that emotion.
So their response, especially young folks, is to lash out.
And one of the young folks, we talked to him on your show.
You had him on your show, a young man who is from Minneapolis who said, do you see all this damage here?
You don't listen to us when we speak.
So you listen to us now, don't you?
One of the things, one of the things is, is that you have to understand, these are Democrat voters, right?
This is Joe Biden's base.
The people who are doing this are Joe Biden's base.
They're not, I mean, obviously they'd rather have Bernie Sanders, especially the Radicals would rather have Bernie Sanders.
But if there's anybody in the black community who is sympathizing with these guys or at least thinks that anything that anybody says against them is somehow says against the looters is somehow against them, which is absurd, that's the narrative they sell.
Those people are voting for Joe Biden.
Joe Biden cannot alienate these people.
He has to basically support this absolute disorder and violence and really an attack on the rule of law.
These people who keep saying that Donald Trump is an authoritarian and Donald Trump is going to nuke New York.
Where is the violence coming from?
It's right in front of our eyes.
It's right in front of our eyes.
They're burning down the city and we're supposed to worry about evil Donald Trump like he's Godzilla or something.
Here's Joe Biden's spokeswoman.
Her name is Kate Beddingfield giving the official response.
32.
Is he dismayed by what he's seen in terms of the pushback to the violence?
Does he feel like some of these governors could be doing more?
He believes that, as he has said, he believes that people have a right to protest.
He believes that they should rise up.
If you look at the violence.
They should rise up.
He has unequivocally condemned the violence.
He has said that the reason that people are protesting should not be overshadowed by the protests themselves.
So let's see.
Let's have, I want to just play Joe Biden's recommendation for how we should retrain the police.
This is the next clip.
The idea that instead of standing there and teaching a cop when there's an unarmed person of coming at him with a knife or something and shoot him in the leg instead of in the heart is a very different thing.
There's a lot of different things that can change.
First of all, when I was a little kid, there used to be a show on called The Lone Ranger.
I don't know if anybody remembers that show, but he was the perfect cowboy.
He had a mat, he wore like a mask, and he was the Lone Ranger.
He was always doing good, and he only shot to wound.
He only shot to wound.
That was like an old colt.
The thing is, if you have to use a gun, God forbid you should ever have to use a gun.
You have to aim center mass.
You have to aim for center mass.
That's the first thing.
And you really have to shoot somebody into the ground.
I mean, it is a terrible thing, and I hope it never happens to any of us.
But ask a soldier, ask somebody who has to do this stuff.
You cannot assume that if you shoot somebody in the head, he's going to fall over.
You have to shoot him into the ground.
So he is talking utter, utter nonsense.
Let us hear, we've heard all the Democrats.
Let us pause and hear from Ananda, I'm sure he's not a Democrat, a Sheriff Grady Judd of Polk County, Florida.
Here's what he told people in his area.
Ring And Protect00:03:19
We have received information on social media that some of the criminals were going to take their criminal conduct into the neighborhoods.
I would tell them if you value your life, you probably shouldn't do that in Polk County because the people of Polk County like guns.
They have guns.
I encourage them to own guns.
And they're going to be in their homes tonight with their guns loaded.
And if you try to break into their homes to steal, to set fires, I'm highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns.
That's what it sounds like to care about all people.
That's what it sounds like.
They care about all law-abiding, decent Americans, all of them, any color, as I do, as I'm sure you do.
I want them all safe.
That's what that sounds like.
It sounds like hardball because this, what the press is doing is just letting it burn.
And they're letting it burn.
They think we deserve it.
They think it's right.
They think it's progress.
It's up to us who are you going to vote for.
It is up to us.
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Kaylee McEnenney's Voice00:15:24
We've got Jonah Goldberg coming up.
We're going to just scream and yell at him.
We're just going to torment him for everything he says.
But you don't want to miss it.
All right.
Jonah Goldberg is editor-in-chief of The Dispatch.
He is an LA Times columnist and an AEI fellow.
He's the author of three New York Times bestsellers, which I have read, which are absolutely terrific.
And I strongly suggest you buy them.
And he's the host of the Remnant podcast.
And he's public enemy number one.
First of all, thank you for coming on.
It's good to see you.
Sure, good to see you.
You know, I was originally just going to have you on for a cage match with Sebastian Gorka.
I thought like that would be fun.
I have never seen such bile unleashed against one of our own and a very talented one of our own.
You know, I'm a fan, and I'm not flattering you.
You know, I think your work is great.
Really appreciate it.
But you sort of.
You think you're great too.
And you knock it out of the park at the Ben Shapiro roast, I got to say.
That was a really impressive performance.
Well, thank you.
Roasting Ben Shapiro is one of my favorite things to do.
And if we can eat him with a little mustard afterwards, also.
You can always tell a man is doing something he loves.
So that was really impressive.
So suddenly, you are public enemy number one.
Now, you went after Kaylee McEneny, or as we call her at my house, the pinup girl of June.
I call her MAGA Barbie.
Sort of the same point.
So here's what I want to know, okay?
Here's why I disagreed.
I really disagreed with you strongly about this.
And the thing is, you hate Donald Trump.
You really dislike him.
And I have no problem with that.
I can see how a thinking man could feel that way.
And that makes sense.
But surely you see that something has gone terribly wrong with our press.
Am I wrong about that?
Yeah, no, I want to push back a little bit.
I am not fond of Donald Trump.
I wasn't fond of Donald Trump, I think, in 2012 when I first started writing columns, making fun of him.
I grew up in New York City, so I kind of have a familiarity with the guy.
But this whole thing about how I hate Donald Trump, a lot of times that feels like it's people who love Donald Trump wanting to give themselves permission structure to just dismiss real criticisms.
And I had a lot of experience that going back to Bill Clinton, where people would constantly tell me, oh, you just hate Clinton.
You're an irrational Clinton hater.
And that was a way they could just tune out legitimate criticisms.
And I think there are a lot of legitimate criticisms about the guy.
But yeah, look, I think the press is a hot mess.
The press has been a hot mess for a long time.
It's worse than it's ever been.
But a lot of that has to do with the fact that it's all balkanized.
It's 10,000 flowers blooming.
People get to pick the media outlets that tell them what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear.
And even the mainstream places like the New York Times, they get caught up in this need to do fan service where they're basically giving people the narratives they want that confirm their pre-existing biases.
And this is a huge problem with the mainstream media.
It's also a huge problem with right-wing media.
And it's a huge problem with media in this country.
Due to this huge sorting and balkanization of things, people are simply looking to have their priors confirmed on the right and the left these days.
So if you have a media, I mean, yesterday I was watching a lot of media basically making excuses for these guys burning down cities and this mostly peaceful nonsense, which, like I said, was, you know, it only took them a minute to burn down the city and the rest of the time they were peaceful.
It was insanity.
I mean, it really does seem to me that we've lost a, you know, I lived through the 60s.
I saw this kind of rioting before, but the press was not on the side of the rioters.
The press was not on the side of disorder.
Doesn't it seem to you that like a guy that the people sent Donald Trump to the White House specifically to push back, that somebody like Kaylee McEnenney is specifically there to give the people a voice that they don't have in network TV, which is most of TV, in the New York Times, which dominates the media across the country.
Don't you think that Trump is doing a service for a lot of people by putting somebody like Kaylee McInenney in place?
No, I think he's making everything worse.
And I think she makes things worse.
I think she's basically, as I wrote, I think she's basically a Twitter troll who, when it was in her interest as a career to be anti-Trump, she was anti-Trump.
When it was interested to be fawning about Trump, she became fawning about Trump.
She's there basically performing.
She's doing this own the lib stuff.
And she's a, look, I think she's very smart.
I think she's very capable for what, for the job that she's been picked to do.
But basically what she's doing is she's a surrogate for Donald Trump and those coronavirus task force press conferences.
Trump did his whole, he tried to turn those things into sort of mini rallies for two hours a day.
It took weeks for his aides to explain to him that it wasn't helping.
And moreover, I mean, not that Donald Trump would care about this argument.
He was doing a disservice to the country during a pandemic as well.
And so now Kaylee gets to go on and basically do the same shtick, and I do believe it is shtick, and try to change the narrative to, you know, you guys really shouldn't be writing about the pandemic.
He shouldn't be writing about the fact that Trump promised all of these tests and failed to deliver.
You should be writing about what happened to Michael Flynn.
And it plays great in the echo chamber on the right.
I'm not saying that all of the underlying arguments are absolutely wrong, but I just find it amazing at a time of three crises, a pandemic that is not over, an economic calamity, the likes of which no one in our lifetimes has seen unless you like were alive in the 30s.
And now these crazy riots and urban unrest that Donald Trump wants to simply play the same narrative game for the same 34% of the country that sticks with him no matter what.
And whether it's strategy or just simply that he is incapable of playing the role of a president of the entire country, the way the entire Amen Corpus just celebrates the fact that he's doing this, you know, that, oh, you know, you have to understand, I can't tell you how many people I've talked to for three years is telling me, oh, you have to understand that the tweeting works for him.
And it's like the guy, it's like the salesman who says, look, sure, I'm losing money on every sale, but I'll make up for it in volume.
He turns away more voters than he attracts with all of this shtick.
And I don't see why a lot of people can't see it.
I mean, I think it's just, it's all performative.
He wants to be a pundit.
He keeps talking about how he has total authority, but he doesn't want any responsibility for all sorts of things.
And he's not acting like a president.
And she's there to celebrate that fact.
You know, the thing that bothered me when you were having this, and bothers me now, actually, as you're talking, is that, like I said, I completely understand criticizing Trump.
You know, that seems to me we need those voices on the right.
And that actually seems to me totally rational.
It seemed to me when you were talking to Chris Wallace and Chris Wallace was kind of blowing off this thing with Michael Flynn.
It's like, you know, they unmask people all the time.
I mean, you and I both know, you and I both know that if George W. Bush had unmasked Susan Rice and sent the FBI to set her up, and it was a setup.
I mean, they even said it was going to be a setup and sent her over him over, the FBI over to set him up.
That would have been all we'd have heard for the next three years.
And in this, where you go to Fox News hoping you get a little bit of fairness, I mean, Chris Wallace is a fair journalist.
You hope Brett Baer is going to deliver.
To blow that off, it's essentially say one side gets to play this very, very dirty game.
I mean, a very dirty game turning the FBI loose on a presidential candidate.
The other side, if he does anything wrong, it becomes a scandal.
I mean, it's a scandal if Trump takes hydroxychloroquine, which is not even any of our business.
But that is not a scandal.
And Chris Wallace blows that off.
And it's that evil Kaylee Mackin.
What bothers me about that, Jonah, is that it's like Chris is worried about the dignity of the press and you're worried about Donald Trump.
But who's speaking for the people that Trump was sent there to represent?
The people who feel that they have no voice, the people who feel that when they're out of work and killing themselves with opiates, nobody's paying attention because globalism is going great.
You know, who speaks for them?
Apparently you do and lots of other people.
The idea, this idea that, first of all, presidents, once they're elected, are supposed to at least pretend they're the president of the whole country.
Donald Trump has never done that.
He's never done that.
Did Obama ever do that?
He pretended.
He tried.
I mean, I thought he was bad at it, but I saw through it.
George W. Bush tried.
But the whole idea is that you're supposed to at least, you are now everybody's president, not just the people who love you the most and excuse all of your wild and ridiculous behavior because it makes, you know, it generates liberal tear mugs for you guys, right?
I mean, there's got to be something more to the presidency than that.
And as for the, look, I wasn't going off about Michael Flynn.
I mean, I think what happened to Michael Flynn was very bad.
I think a lot of people are wildly exaggerating the idea that there was no reason to be concerned with Michael Flynn's behavior.
Two things can be true.
You can be treated very badly by the FBI, and I think Flynn probably was, while at the same time, his behavior was not good and did raise red flags.
And I think it's just a complicated thing.
Everyone wants to turn him into a hero or a villain.
And I think it's much greater than that.
My problem was you had a reporter asking Kaylee a very specific question.
What authority does the president of the United States have to override governors, which the president had just said.
He said, I'm going to override the governors if they don't reopen the churches.
And reporters asked Kaylee, where does he have that authority?
Spoiler alert, he doesn't.
And she dodged the question.
She hedged, you know, she chuck and jived a little bit about it.
And then because the reporter wouldn't let it go, she said, it must be because you guys just don't want to see churches open and you don't like religion and went with the boob bait.
Now, the thing is, there was a time when conservative, like all of the stuff that you want the media to do properly, all the stuff that Molly Hemingway and all these people who say the media is so terrible, asking where a president gets the constitutional authority to be able to override governors and order churches open or closed is a perfectly legitimate question.
And rather than answer it, she pivoted to this sort of talk radio nonsense.
But it comes in the context of weeks of watching these guys shout questions like Jim Acosta.
Are we still living in a democracy?
You know, are you worse than him?
He's a tool.
I have no problem admitting that.
But when Donald Trump goes after Jonathan Carl for asking legitimate questions and calls him a terrible human being, that was ridiculous.
Look, I'm not, I've spent 25 years, you know, professionally criticizing the mainstream media.
I hold no brief for them.
But what, you know, one of the problems I have with the right these days is that for a long time, and I partly blame myself.
I was one of those guys that made Saul Olinski famous in liberal fascism.
I wrote about him.
I wrote about him as a bad man.
He was a bad man.
He literally dedicated his book to Satan, which I thought was a tell.
And over the following 10 years, a bunch of people on the right, some of them friends of ours, have developed, have internalized this thing, which I've called Alinsky envy, where they say the left wins at everything because they play dirty.
We have to do the same thing too.
I find that repugnant.
And I don't want to do that.
I don't see it's part of my job description to do that.
My job description is to tell the truth as I see it and not be an adjunct to a party or a cult of personality or anything else.
And look, I agree with you.
Last week I was kind of enemy number one.
Now it's all gone away.
It'll come back again.
That's fine.
There's a reason why I call my podcast The Remnant.
I understand that my position is not exactly super popular these days.
But what I'm not going to do for this president or for the freaking GOP is lie for them or change or just constantly say, yeah, what he did is bad, but the real issue is X. When I don't think the real issue is X, I think that X is either a red herring or a distraction or just more fan service.
And so much of the right has gotten into fan service these days, where they tell people what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear.
I'm out of time, but I got to ask you this last question.
We live in a two-party system.
Politics has the atmosphere of a fistfight at times.
Are you in danger of like max Buddhism, where like Max Boot essentially is now calling evil good and good evil?
I mean, he came on the show and basically said, oh, you know, Hillary Clinton was a wonder, lovely person.
Barack Obama, they were just doing the best they could.
And Donald Trump was so evil.
Whereas to me, I mean, I think Obama and Trump have a lot in common on their own personal sides.
Are you in danger of putting yourself out of the actual game that we're playing?
In other words, you can be a referee, but at some point, somebody has to win and somebody has to lose.
And with the left actively encouraging what is civil unrest, isn't it dangerous to put them in a position, a better position to win?
Yeah, I just honestly, I don't think that way.
I've done a lot of work for 20 years, 30 years, fighting the fights, doing the red meat stuff.
I don't see myself as working for or against either party.
I think the comparison to me, I know you weren't making it, but of me to Max Boot is exactly wrong.
I haven't changed my positions on anything.
Max basically admitted, oh, gosh, I discovered that Donald Trump is so bad.
It turns out I was wrong about climate change too.
I haven't done any of that.
More people who are pro-Trump have changed their positions on more issues than I've changed on any.
And what I've done, I'm much more, I think, like George Will.
George Will still has the same basic philosophical perspective that he had.
It's just that what the right wants these days has changed.
I'm not sure I want to get rid of the Republican Senate either.
I know that's George's thing now.
But my point is, I'm politically homeless.
I have never been more ideologically grounded.
I know what I believe.
I'm still a conservative.
I think nationalism is dangerous to conservatism.
And it's a position I held 15 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago, and I'll have it 10 years from now.
Great To See You00:01:55
Jonah, it's always great to see you.
I wish I could see you in person if we ever get out of here.
I hope I'd love to do that.
Great to see you too.
Thanks for coming on.
I appreciate it.
Thanks, Manny.
You too.
If anybody hasn't read Liberal Fascism, it is an epoch-making book.
Even if you don't agree with what Jonah just said, the book is absolutely terrific and it will make you smarter and a better conservative.
I got to go, but we will be back.
The mailbag is tomorrow.
Again, if you want to use video, please send video.
We won't not take your questions if you don't send video, but if you do include it, we'll use those as well.
I will see you then.
I'm Andrew Clavin.
This is The Andrew Klavan Show.
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The Andrew Clavin Show is produced by Robert Sterling and directed by Mike Joyner.
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