Ep. 896’s Andrew Klavan and Jenna Ellis expose Obamagate, where Biden and Obama officials illegally unmasked Flynn’s name—later leaked to fuel Trump-Russia hysteria—while John Durham investigates. They contrast this with Democratic governors’ COVID-19 overreach, like Wisconsin’s struck-down stay-at-home order and Pennsylvania’s business threats, framing it as authoritarianism. Ellis argues states lack power for indefinite lockdowns without legislative backing, praising Trump’s federalist response while criticizing biased Flynn prosecution tactics. The episode ties these abuses to broader "resistance" efforts, urging legal pushback against local tyrants. [Automatically generated summary]
Democrats are furious that new revelations about ObamaGate are distracting the public from their attempts to distract the public from ObamaGate.
The Democrats are pushing the conspiracy theory that this is a conspiracy theory which is getting in the way of their conspiracy to hide the conspiracy.
Democrat senator and soulless remnant of a former child of God, Chuck Schumer, spoke to the press from the center of a flaming pentagram saying, quote, it is an outrageous wrongdoing that documents exposing our outrageous wrongdoing should be released to the public when all our efforts should be focused on the urgent business of pretending we're honest people.
Instead, the Republicans want to divert the public's attention from President Trump's deplorable behavior in revealing our deplorable behavior.
I cannot believe Trump has sunk so low that he actually reached the level where he could see what we've been up to, unquote.
On CNN, Brian Stelter said he was so upset by the latest ObamaGate revelations, he had to go to bed for a good cry, although he felt much better after a talk with his dolly, who can call for her mommy and wet herself.
Or maybe that's Stelter.
It's hard to tell them apart.
Stelter said, quote, I am very disappointed that Republicans are becoming obsessed with this meaningless Russia case we were obsessed with.
We will not allow ourselves to be dragged back into the lies and distortions of the past when we have moved on to an extremely new set of lies and distortions, unquote.
Presumptive former Democrat presidential nominee Joe Biden, who said he knew nothing about ObamaGate, then said he knew about Obama but not the gate, now says he knew about the gate but never met Obama, who seems like a really dishonest guy.
Biden said, quote, the first thing is that this is a total distraction and that's the second thing.
And the third thing is, oh, look, I can blow a bubble with my magic bubble wand, unquote.
Trigger warning.
I'm Andrew Clavin and this is the Andrew Clavin Show.
I'm the hunky-dunky.
Birds are winding, also singing hunky-dunkity.
Ship-shaped hipsy-topsy, the world is a bitty zing.
It's a wonderful day.
Hoorah, hooray!
It makes me want to sing.
Oh, hurrah, hooray.
Oh, hooray, hurrah.
All right, we have a comment on YouTube on the YouTube channel from C. Young.
Clavin has just lies just as bad as the left.
He said the quiet part out loud when he said he woke up this morning and felt optimistic.
So he does sleep after all.
I can't help but wonder if he was always lying about not sleeping before or if he's lying now.
You know, in my own defense, it's just a turn of phrase, woke up.
What it really means is that the alarm goes off and I get out of bed.
And there's always a moment of regret when I think maybe I should have spent that time sleeping, but I never do.
To give the devil his due, the Democrat Party, but I repeat myself, is very good at messaging.
Since the election of Donald Trump, they've been talking about the resistance.
Think about that for a second.
Resistance is a word that is meant to associate Democrat efforts with a grassroot people's movement against the powerful, against authoritarian government and big corporations.
Of what does this resistance consist?
Well, now we know it consists in part of top government officials and spies listening in on the phone conversations of Americans without a warrant and then illegally leaking what they heard to the press.
Resistance in defense of democracy consists of impeaching a democratically elected president over nothing.
Resistance against the wealthy and big corporations consists of having wealthy big corporations like Twitter, Facebook, and Google censor the words of ordinary people.
It consists of huge corporations like Universal Comcast spreading pro-Democrat news through mouthpieces like Chuck Todd.
So this people's resistance turns out to be a resistance against the people, a resistance in favor of gigantic corporations and entrenched government power.
What can we learn from this?
Well, thanks to Donald Trump and his federalist approach, we can now see where the patches of authoritarian tyranny really lie in our country.
In places like New York City, in L.A., in Michigan, in Pennsylvania, little men and little women with too much power are abusing what was at first a legitimate emergency to keep a stranglehold on the people.
Thanks to President Trump's loudmouth attacks on the press, the GOP has grown a spine and is suddenly exposing Democrat corruption at the highest level.
Do you think if Donald Trump weren't attacking the press that Mitch McConnell would have stood up for Brett Kavanaugh the way he did?
I don't think so.
Protecting Identity Online00:02:32
That's an important thing.
Trump's wrecking ball approach is great, but it's not enough.
Trumpian disruptions, ranting on social media by conservatives and conservatives taking selves of themselves, violating lockdown orders, is not enough to change this game the way it needs changing.
We shouldn't abandon the system like the Democrats did, but we should use it.
We need to start suing these petty tyrants and getting some court decisions that limit their power.
We need to outlaw the power of social media to censor us.
That is a good use of government.
And the Democrats have shown us what resistance isn't.
We need to show them what resistance is.
All right.
I want to remind you that if you like my openings, we're putting them out.
We're taking them out separately and putting my openings out on my personal YouTube channel, Andrew Clavin.
If you don't know how to spell Clavin, I can't help you anymore.
But go ahead on the Andrew Clavin YouTube channel.
We've got a couple of, we'll have some special content on there that you don't get on the show.
And we also have the openings separated out.
Let us talk about Life Lock, which is very important, especially now when you're online constantly, you're in your home.
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Go to lifelock.com slash Clavin.
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Unmasking Michael Flynn00:11:22
It's K-L-A-V-A-N.
That's it.
Jenna Ellis, the wonderful Jenna Ellis, is going to join us later on in the show to talk about how we can use the law to fight back if our local authorities are abusing their powers.
So let's talk.
Let's first talk about what happened yesterday with the ObamaGate scandal, which is spreading.
You want to see the face of panic?
You want to just see utter panic?
Here's Chuck Schumer protesting that they have revealed who was unmasking Michael Flynn.
That's crying Chuck Schumer.
No, play the real Chuck Schumer.
It's the same thing.
Instead of doing what they're supposed to do, Senate Republicans, coming up with answers to the COVID crisis, having oversight hearings to find out why small business isn't getting the lending, why we're not testing, why the hospitals are still hurting and not getting the money that they need.
Instead of having hearings and oversight on that, they're coming up with these ridiculous conspiracy theories on Obama.
And Chairman Johnson wants to go after Biden and this Hunter Biden conspiracy theory, which came from the Russians of all people.
This is amazing to me.
What alternative universe do they live in?
Spending their time on discredited conspiracy theories against Obama, against Biden, instead of dealing with the greatest crisis we've had in America in decades and decades and decades.
What universe are they in?
What is in their heads?
Breathe, Chuck, breathe.
Slow it down.
You know, obviously this is a bad thing.
Chuck Grassley, the senators, Chuck Grassley and Ron Johnson, they released this declassified list of Obama administration officials who in the last days of the administration were unmasking the conversations of General Flynn.
And they did this, by the way.
These things go back to way back before his conversation with the Russian ambassador Sicily Act.
So we don't even know.
They're obviously just hunting around.
One of these people is your old friend, Uncle Joe Biden, who did it in the last, he was eight days away from leaving office, eight days away from leaving office, and he was unmasking Michael Flynn.
What did he need to know about that for?
We'll find out.
Let's take a look.
You know, here's the thing.
They're going to tell you, oh, this is a conspiracy theory.
Oh, it's this or that.
But let me replay this for you.
Last, a few days ago, I played this thing, George Stephanopoulos, interviewing Joe Biden.
Okay, so let's take a look at that.
What did you know about those moves to investigate Michael Flynn?
And was there anything improper done?
I know nothing about those moves to investigate Michael Flynn, number one.
Number two, this is all about diversion.
I do want to press that.
You say you didn't know anything about it, but you were reported to be at a January 5th, 2017 meeting where you and the president were briefed on the FBI's plan to question Michael Flynn over those conversations he had with the Russian Ambassador Kisliak.
Now, I thought you asked me whether or not I had anything to do with him being prosecuted.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
I was aware that there was, that they asked for an investigation, but that's all I know about it.
Why no m ⁇ you lying?
Why are you always lying?
So he was one of the people who asked to be unmasked.
Comey, Clapper, Brennan, all the usual suspects were having him unmasked.
So we're clear about this.
The government can tape, can record phone conversations from foreign people, like the ambassador, Sergei Sicily Act, I forget his first name, Sicily Act from the Russian Ambassador.
They can tape those.
But they can't reveal any American citizen who was on the phone line with him without a warrant.
Why?
Because that's tapping your phone.
The government is not allowed to tap your phone without a warrant.
Now, if somebody in the government needs that information, namely an intelligence officer, a guy who's sitting around finding out what the Russians are up to and he needs to know who they were talking to at a certain time, they can unmask.
They can request that that be unmasked.
But why is the ambassador to the UN who swore under oath that she did not remember ever having somebody unmasked?
And she says other people were unmasking things in her name.
That's what she says, Samantha Power.
Why is Joe Biden doing this?
Why are ambassadors doing this?
Why are ambassadors essentially, it's essentially bugging Joe Biden is bugging somebody's phone without a warrant?
That's what he's doing.
Why is he doing that eight days before the administration is over?
So here's Trump's comment on this.
This is cut 14.
I watched Biden yesterday on Good Morning America being interviewed by one of your colleagues, George Stephanopoulos.
And he said he knew nothing about anything.
He has no idea.
He knows nothing about anything.
Nothing at all.
And then it gets released today that he was a big unmasker.
So how do you know nothing if you're one of the unmaskers?
It's one of the very big stories, and I suspect you'll have, if it's possible, even bigger stories coming out.
Well, that's the thing.
You know, this is, remember, Durham is investigating this at the DOJ.
And Durham, you know, in Hollywood, we have what we call money pitches because you have to pitch a movie a million times before you get the guy with the money.
First, you pitch it to an assistant, then you pitch it to a story editor, then you pitch it to this guy, then you pitch it to that guy.
It goes on and on and on.
And finally, you have the money pitch, which is the guy who can say, yes, here's your money.
I buy this.
Well, Durham is a money prosecutor.
He's the guy who can come to your house and take you away in handcuffs.
Now, I don't know if that's going to happen, except maybe to Peter Strzok.
Maybe Peter Strzok did things.
But this way, you know, the Flynn thing was entrapment.
Durham is not just looking at the Flynn thing.
The Flynn thing is just the tip of the iceberg.
There's more to this.
There's more to this to come.
And it's coming from a top-level money prosecutor who can do stuff about it.
Rand Paul made this point.
He has asked that Rick Rinnell.
Rick Rinnell is the guy who actually went into the building.
He went into the building and got these papers and brought them out.
And again, this would not be happening.
This would not be happening if Trump weren't a wrecking ball against the press.
This has given the GOP the spine it needs to fight back because conservatives don't get this.
They don't get it.
They shrug off the power of the press.
The power of the press is not convincing you of the lies they tell.
It's convincing people within the Beltway that if they make a move to the right, the press is going to fall on them like a ton of bricks and it's going to matter.
That's the thing.
And the fact that Trump has taken them on the way he has, and yeah, is it like out of control sometimes?
Yes, it is.
Is it sometimes rude?
Yes, it is.
But the fact that he has taken them on has made them sort of wake up within the Beltway and start to say, oh, we can fight back against this.
They weren't doing this before.
I remember a Republican operative telling me years ago, he said to me, we are never going to win until we understand that we're running against the press.
Trump gets this and it has changed the game.
So here is Rand Paul talking about what this means about Joe Biden.
This got six.
When they were clamoring and saying President Trump was abusing his power by withholding this, much of it didn't center on legality.
Remember, there was this debate over what was legal or legal.
Most people really gave up on the argument that President Trump did anything illegal.
They said he was abusing his power to investigate a political opponent.
Now, we rejected that, and then the president was acquitted in the Senate.
But this is exactly the same kind of scenario.
The vice president and a cabal of President Obama's inner circle abused their power to go after a political opponent and to bring him down and then to plot with various ways to bring him down.
You know, should we use the Logan Act?
Should we, you know, what are the ways that we can bring him down?
Should we try to trick him into lying?
So, yes, and it sounds like this was directed from the very top.
That's an abuse of power.
There's no question about it.
That's an abuse of power.
And this is, you know, Biden unmasking somebody to get to a guy who's running against their chosen candidate, Hillary Clinton.
I mean, a lot of this is about this, and a lot of it may be, I mean, there's different, you know, it's hard to know so far what the motives are exactly.
Were they just trying to undermine the president?
That's my suspicion that they were just trying to scramble this presidency and make it impossible.
It's kind of like the Uber version of removing all the W's from the typewriters, from the keyboards when George W. Bush came into office as a kind of nasty, dirty trick.
But it also might have been to divert people from the fact that they covered up for Hillary Clinton, that they cleared Hillary Clinton when really she was guilty of using a private server to do government business.
So it may have been that as well.
Meanwhile, if this isn't important, why is the press covering it up?
Why is the press not reporting this?
This would be, look, you know, you know for a fact that if this were Republicans unmasking Democrats, this would be the lead story for three years, for three years.
Instead, CBS Evening News was the only, this is from MRC, our friends at Newsbusters, Wednesday's CBS Evening News was the only broadcast network to mention that Lieutenant General Michael Flynn's unmaskers had been exposed when one of them is the presumptive nominee for president of the Democrat Party, one of the unmaskers.
They don't even mention, the other networks didn't even mention it.
And CBS tucked the latest Flynn case revelation into a one-minute brief following a coronavirus report, very critical of President Trump.
You know, and meanwhile, Adam Schiff, whom we now know, we now know he lied, he's still on TV.
He's still going on TV saying, oh, there's nothing here.
I don't know what you're, you know, let me just show you how they depended on him.
Play Cut 10.
This is also from MRC, from Media Research Center and the newsbusters.
This is how they treated Schiff during the Russia collusion hoax.
The Russians offered help.
The campaign accepted help.
The Russians gave help, and the president made full use of that help.
And that is pretty damning.
The top Democrat on the intelligence committee is warning today that there is already evidence that the Trump campaign colluded.
Adam Schiff, the top Democrat, saying there is significant evidence of collusion.
Adam Schiff saying there is, quote, significant evidence of collusion.
According to Congressman Adam Schiff, who attended the meeting today, President Trump and Trump Jr. had a conversation.
This is something that Adam Schiff, the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, brought up today.
We heard from Adam Schiff.
According to Schiff, Wolf.
Here's Adam Schiff.
As soon as Adam Schiff and company walk out of that closed-door hearing, let us know.
Little pencil neck Adam Schiff.
So, meanwhile, meanwhile, the DOJ has dropped the case against Flynn, right?
The judge overseeing the government's case against Michael Flynn appointed a retired judge to argue against the government's motion to dismiss.
So the prosecution doesn't want to prosecute.
Obviously, the defense doesn't want him prosecuted.
The judge is calling for a judge to come in and argue for his prosecution.
That is a remarkable political move.
That is a remarkable hack move.
A judge acting as a political hack.
This is a genuine, widespread scandal.
Judge As Political Hack00:10:04
And just that move shows you that it is.
I mean, you only have to see it.
And we don't even know.
This is just the beginning.
And the thing about this is it's not illegal to unmask.
But remember that the unmasked information was then leaked to the press.
And that is illegal.
That is illegal.
And so all the stories that the press was running with about Russia collusion that kept this thing alive for two and a half years, all of that was breaking the law.
So just remember this when you're listening to the press report about the Chinese flu, when you're listening to the Democrats in their localities doing things that you think are oppressive, you're right.
They are.
And we're going to have to start to learn how to resist.
All right.
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Write Klavin in there.
How did you hear about us box so they know we sent you?
And then the box right next to it says, how do you spell Klavin?
And write Clavin there too.
And to show them, because you do not deserve the parts at rockauto.com unless you know how to spell clavin.
It's K-L-A.
K-L-A-K-A-I-L-A-A-I-I.
There are no easy players.
I don't know what the point of you playing it after I said it already is.
All right.
So let's take a look at some of the virus tyrants.
Now, again, I really feel that conservatives are not celebrating Donald Trump enough.
And you know, I've had my problems with Donald Trump.
And I always tell you when I think he's doing something wrong, and I always tell you when he's been too much of a big mouth or fighting the wrong fight or anything like that.
However, however, these two things that he has done are so huge.
One, fighting, let alone the fact that the Chinese flu shows that he was right about China, shows that he was right about the border, shows that he was right about globalization.
Leave all that aside for just a minute.
These two things, we're keeping this a federalist response.
You are seeing over and over and over again, we need a coordinated response.
No, we don't.
Why do we need a coordinated response?
We need a local response.
We could use better help with testing at the federal level, and that's been a problem, but it's been a problem because of the bureaucracy, not because of Trump.
Trump has been cutting through the bureaucracy.
That also has been helpful.
But his federalist approach means that we can spot where the bad guys are.
We can spot the guys who just love this power so much, they can't stop.
You know, because remember, it was two weeks to flatten the curve.
And the important thing about that is that means that they're not going to be able to limit the number of exposures.
They're going to just flatten them.
They're going to slow them so that hospitals don't get overwhelmed.
That was the point.
That was the point.
It wasn't stay home till we find a cure.
It wasn't stay home till we find the first coronavirus vaccine in human history.
It wasn't stay home until anything else.
It was stay home so that the hospitals are free.
Why?
So that if I happen to get sick, everybody can be on board to save the clavin.
That was the whole point.
The whole point was save the clavin.
It was keep me alive so that the world doesn't vanish because the world only exists in my imagination.
In Wisconsin, a very good decision by the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
And this is all local stuff.
And we have to remember that it's local stuff because I keep seeing people on social media going like, oh, our country, we're losing our freedoms.
No, no.
States, in states and in cities where you're being run by Democrats, some Democrats, not all Democrats, some Democrats, in those states, your freedom is under threat.
That's the way it's supposed to be.
It's supposed to be that you can fight the power at a local level, that everything doesn't have to mean turning over Washington, doesn't mean you have to win the presidency, doesn't mean you need a new Supreme Court judge.
This is the way the country is supposed to work.
And if conservatives don't like this, then they should take back everything they've been saying for the last 50 years, okay?
Because this is what they wanted.
This is what they got.
And this is the way the country is supposed to work.
So in Wisconsin, we have good news, the Wisconsin Supreme Court struck down a stay-at-home order.
The Wisconsin Supreme Court, they got sued.
The government got sued by the Republicans in the Congress saying, you didn't consult with us, you didn't follow the law.
And that's what the Supreme Court said.
It was a limited decision that basically said they didn't use the right method to come up with this fiat.
It was a stay-at-home fiat, and they didn't consult with the Republicans.
But a lot of judges, one of the judges, Daniel Kelly, wrote in a concurring opinion, this comprehensive claim to control virtually every aspect of a person's life is something we normally associate with a prison, not a free society governed by the rule of law.
Amen.
And listen, you know, because we need to save the clavin and because we need to take care of one another, to be absolutely serious, you know, people, you should wear masks if you go to a store.
If the experts say that help, this is not about burning the experts.
It's not about being unhealthy.
It's not about being unsafe.
If you go to the store, if you're going to be close to people, wear a mask.
But in LA, in LA, they just announced that if you even leave your home, you need a mask.
Well, that's garbage.
And why aren't they saying instead of you must do, you must do this, why aren't they saying, listen, this is the way we have to behave and let us take care of it.
Why not act as if we're living in a free country?
That would be, I know that's new for Democrats.
What?
You know, it's like, it's like, my head exploded.
We're living in a free country.
But if you act like that, you will get more compliance and you'll get less of these demonstrations where people show up crowded together without masks.
You'll actually achieve more of what you're doing.
Instead, I mean, this is, you want to see like a mobster, you know, the old joke, you know, it's nice business you have here.
It'd be a shame if anything happened to it.
Here is Governor Tom Wolfe in Pennsylvania telling businesses who open up that suddenly he's going to start revoking their licenses.
I mean, this is what abusive police do when they want you to talk and they come into your store and say, what do you mean you won't give us information?
How about I get the health inspector in here to take a look around and we'll find, you know, a plug that's out or a rat in your store and we'll shut you down.
Here's Governor Tom Wolf in Pennsylvania sounding exactly like that thug.
To the politicians urging businesses to risk their lives and to risk the lives of their customers or their employees by opening prematurely, they need to understand that they are engaging in behavior that is both selfish and unsafe.
You business owners, these politicians put you at risk of losing your health department certificate.
They put you business owners at risk of losing your liquor license.
They put you business owners at risk of losing your certificate of occupancy.
All these depend upon your doing everything you can to keep your patrons safe.
And by opening before the evidence suggests you should, you're taking undue risks with the safety of your customers.
What if an employee, even the managers say, was assaulted?
Exactly.
I mean, that's what you do.
I'm going to pull your licenses.
I'm going to do, you don't do what I want you to do.
I'm going to pull you.
This is Pennsylvania where the horrible Dr. Rachel Levine, who's a transgender person, and he, she, whatever it is, is telling people, don't call me, don't misgender me.
Well, this dishonest person, you know, had her mother transferred from a nursing home facility, her 95-year-old mother, while they had issued a rule.
After they issued a rule, the state issued a rule on March 18th that said elderly care facilities must continue to accept new emissions and receive readmissions for current residents who have been discharged from the hospital who are stable.
The rule may have contributed to the significant death toll the pandemic has wrought in the state's care facilities.
The overwhelming majority of deaths in the state have occurred in nursing homes, more than 2,400 of the state's nearly 4,000 deaths.
So while they're making that rule, Dr. Rachel is scooting her old mom out of the care facility.
So you know how she's always making these speeches with the person doing the hand signals for deaf people?
You know, we can't read those hand signals, but what she's saying is, mom, get out.
My rules are going to kill people.
Run for your life.
So these corrupt, overburdening officials.
And you know, this thing about you're not supposed to question transgender people about their transgenderism.
I'm not buying it.
I am not buying it.
I have nothing against somebody if they have gender dysphoria.
I think that must be a very painful situation.
Fix it as you may.
It's a free country.
But don't tell me what I have to think about it.
Don't tell me how I have to think, that I have to now think that you may not have some kind of disorder, that you might not be seeing reality incorrectly.
And that may be a reason to not listen to you when you tell me what I have to do.
You know, in Virginia, a very influential Virginia sheriff rejected a request from Governor Blackface, Ralph Northam.
I wonder if he wears like a mask that makes him look like Michael Jackson to help him with his imitations.
That's just cruel.
Why do you guys let me say that?
I blame you guys for letting me say stuff like that.
He says he just won't enforce the business lockdown in parts of Northern Virginia.
This is Culpeper County Sheriff Scott Jenkins.
I mean, this is like the battleship Potemkin.
When finally the Army and the law officers turn against you, you have become tyrannical.
You've become tyrannical.
He says, my response to the request that we close these businesses is he says we will not trample on the constitutional freedoms of our citizens to enforce an edict of the governor.
Knowles Subscriptions Access00:02:54
I do not speak for any of the other jurisdictions in the health district.
This is amazing.
And, you know, you get this when you listen.
Listen to Gretchen Whitenberg.
Listen to her talking about her orders.
What we need to do is continue what we have done.
It's working.
And for people that want to voice their frustration, that's fine.
But I expect people to follow the law.
These executive orders are not a suggestion.
They're not optional.
They're not helpful hints.
Because you know deep down, you deserve to be punished.
She is bad news.
We're going to talk to Jenna Ellis in just a second about how we can fight back against these people because people like that need to be fought back against.
And thank you to President Trump for making sure those fights are going to take place on a local level, not with the federal government, which is much harder to fight.
All right.
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Constitutional Challenges00:14:03
You do not want that to happen.
All right.
Jenna Ellis is coming right up.
All right.
A lot of people talk about the secret government that is running the government behind the scenes.
We have her with us today.
Jenna Ellis is a constitutional law attorney, senior legal advisor to the Trump campaign, and one of the best spokesmans, not just for the Trump campaign, but for constitutional law.
Jenna, it's great to see you.
How are you?
Great to see you too, Drew.
It's always a fun day when I get to join you.
It's great to have you.
Well, let's start with just talking about this Wisconsin rule.
This was a pretty narrow rule.
It was just saying they did this the wrong way.
But does it speak at all to our need to get these guys off our back a little bit?
Oh, 100%.
And I want to read the best quotation from Justice Rebecca Bradley from this decision.
She said, quote, it is constitutionally impermissible for the legislature to authorize the head of an administrative agency to unilaterally compel the 5.8 million citizens of Wisconsin to stay home, close their businesses, and face imprisonment if they don't comply.
That is a huge statement that I think needs to ring around the country to say stop it to these tyrannical, overreaching executive agencies and governors that are trying to do things under the auspices of the coronavirus just to get more and more power into the executive branch without the checks and balances of the legislature and also we the people.
So, you know, I've been saying repeatedly, because sometimes conservatives don't see what's right in front of their eyes, that I really do appreciate President Trump's keeping this under the federalist system.
He has let the governors run with this.
Now, because we have a federal system, states and municipalities have more power during a health crisis than the federal government is supposed to have.
How much power do they have?
I mean, is there a way that we can challenge things that we think when you're shutting, when they're shutting down our business, they said flatten the curve.
The curve has been flattened.
Now they're saying in LA, they're saying we have to wait till there's a vaccine, which may be never.
What do they have the power to do this and how can we stop them?
Well, they don't have the power to unilaterally overreach.
And, you know, I was willing as a constitutional law attorney to give the governors and the states pretty wide latitude initially because they do have police power under the 10th Amendment to make sure to balance the health, safety, and welfare of American citizens, especially in the middle of a pandemic.
And when we didn't know what was going on, when we wanted to flatten the curve, that made sense initially.
And the government did have an articulable, compelling interest.
And it needs to be though narrowly tailored.
And here, when you have governors just extending this for no rational reason and not according to any sort of science, I mean, they're just kind of stabbing in the dark here because they don't actually know that the stay-at-home orders are going to help further that interest.
I mean, look at what happened in New York Where staying at home actually added to the amount of cases there in New York.
So, here we can and absolutely should not only push back in court, but also just by standing up for our liberties.
I was really proud of Elon Musk and Tesla for just saying we're going to reopen.
And then that got dropped within a day.
And but he is also someone, Drew, who, unlike a lot of us who don't have the resources and the finances to run to court and to sue and to hire an attorney to do this, that we have to just stand up and say we are going to recognize that the governors are still under the rule of law here and to practice what I think should actually be called civil obedience, not civil disobedience, but civil obedience.
Now, at this point, to say the rule of law and the Constitution is above any tyrannical government.
And again, it's not for us to necessarily just always unilaterally determine how that applies to us.
But when there is such a just insane amount of overreach here, we the people can stand up because health, safety, and welfare is not just about physical health.
And even the coronavirus isn't the only threat to physical health, but health, safety, and welfare includes every element of mental health, everything else, as well as the economy providing for our families.
And the fact that there are so many overreaching state and local leaders that are trying to force us out of business, force us to not be able to provide for our families, that's fundamentally anti-American.
Let me ask you this.
I mean, because you were a prosecutor at one point, if I remember correctly.
So, you know, Elon Musk has got all this money.
Let's say you're just a local business and you're hurting because your business has been closed, so you don't have a lot of money.
What steps can you take?
I mean, besides reopening and getting arrested, which would be the heroic thing to do, but what is the rational within the system way to challenge these people?
How can you bring a lawsuit if you don't have the money?
Are there places to go where you can get somebody to represent you and to say, you know, you have no right to do this, where you will actually be heard?
Certainly.
And even there in California, my really good friend Harmeet Dillon, who runs a group there in California, has a class action now of I believe it's around 500 salon owners that she's challenging there in court.
And there are other organizations like First Liberty and others who are challenging some of these really extreme orders.
And so not only can you perhaps get a nonprofit group that specializes in First Amendment law to represent you, but you can also talk to your state and local legislature.
And I mean, there are Republican representatives in every state, and you can go to some of those and ask them to help you plead your case and also to make sure that you actually have an audience, really, if you want to call it that, because these governors are acting like kings and queens, but to make sure that you are heard.
And I know in my home state of Colorado, our House minority leader is really intent on making sure that small businesses are represented in front of our Democrat governor and making sure that everyone there is heard.
So you can definitely go through your local leaders as well.
Yeah, I think we really have to start doing this because these guys, especially the Democrats, they are just out of control.
And I'm all for safety.
And obviously, I want to especially keep me safe because I'm the most important person I know.
But I think that, you know, it's going too far to not work with each person and let each person make the decisions that he has to make.
All right.
Now, let me, now I'm going to, you know, you're joking to say you're the most important person you know, but that's actually what our Constitution is all about.
The fact that our, we, the people, as individuals, get to make those determinations.
And if you want to stay at home and you think that you are part of the high risk population or demographic, then you can do that.
But for those of us who need to get back out into the workplace, need to open up, we should be able to participate in that risk.
And we need to be able to weigh the cost and benefit like we do in every other circumstance of participating in life, participating in freedom and liberty.
And so each of us are the most important people to our own sphere of family and our own life.
And that's exactly what the pursuit of happiness actually means is that we get to make those decisions for ourselves.
Absolutely.
You know, let me now let me change the subject a little bit because there's a lot of law news.
And while I have it here, I want to ask you a couple of, about a couple of other things.
First of all, this Flynn thing I was talking about where the judge appoints somebody to prosecute him, to argue, to prosecute him.
Has that ever happened before?
I've never heard of that.
It's insane and totally ridiculous.
I mean, he's literally appointing a retired judge with a bias to argue against the government's motion to dismiss.
So, I mean, this is insane because the government in the executive branch has the sole power of law enforcement and to do justice.
And when the government under prosecutorial discretion says we are no longer going to bring this case for perfectly valid reasons, by the way, it's never the judge's province to second guess that or to be like, no, no, no, really, government, you should prosecute.
And so here, Judge Sullivan is so clearly biased.
He is stepping into the role of prosecutor.
So I wrote a piece in Fox News today.
You can go and read it.
It's actually trending like the number two opinion piece right now.
And I have a word for Judge Sullivan that says, if you are so interested in prosecuting Flynn, step off the bench, apply to be an assistant U.S. attorney, go prosecute yourself, but don't do it in your capacity as a judge from the bench.
That is a violation of the constitutionally required separation of powers.
It is amazing.
I was talking earlier about the fact that they call it the resistance because that sounds like a people's movement, but it's really a resistance by entrenched government officials and big corporations against the people.
It's quite, it was quite a good selling technique by the Democrats there.
I appreciate that.
The other thing I want to talk to you about is this Supreme Court case about what they call faithless electors, whether the electors in each state are responsible for voting according to the votes of the people.
How did that go?
How did those arguments go?
Yeah, it's a really interesting case.
And, you know, I haven't listened yet to the full arguments, but I have seen the briefing up front.
And really the issue here is how much constitutional authority do state legislatures have in order to bind their delegates.
And so we definitely know that there is a state sovereignty in the sense that states should be able to bind their delegates.
That's really the conservative argument.
And a lot of the justices were pushing back to say, well, if you can't bind delegates, that'll open delegates and electors to bribery and coercion because they can be faithless for nefarious reasons.
But you also have to make sure that state legislatures aren't binding their delegates in an unconstitutional fashion.
So that actually dealt with my home state of Colorado and the faithless elector in the 2016 election.
And the issue with Colorado is that our now totally Democrat-led state is wanting to participate in the national popular vote and bind our delegates to the national popular vote rather than just within the four corners of Colorado.
That would be an unconstitutional binding.
So my hope is that the Supreme Court will draw the distinction between valid purposes and valid legislative ways to bind delegates and unconstitutional ways that they're entering into a compact with states that the Constitution expressly forbids.
So this is kind of a really wonky area of the Constitution that deals with the Electoral College and the sole purpose of the Electoral College.
But I think that this is really going to have a marked impact on the way that we move forward after 2020.
And the opinion is going to come down before this election.
It's going to come down before the end of the Supreme Court's term in June.
Wow.
Okay.
So that will be important.
Are you talking to the president at all?
Yeah, I talk to him routinely and, you know, he's doing really well.
It's been an amazing opportunity for me as the Constitutional Law Attorney to be an advisor and to get to know him personally as well.
And, you know, I have to say, Drew, I mean, I have been a supporter of President Trump.
I probably voted for him in 2016 from his policies and everything that he stands for.
But now, having worked with him directly and personally, I have so much respect for how much he truly cherishes the Constitution and absolutely loves America.
And that's the type of person that you really want in office and government.
I have to say, I've been impressed.
I feel the right has not been appreciative enough of what he's done during this crisis.
I think just the fact that he hasn't started a new federal agency, just that, just that alone, that there's not a new federal agency, they should build a statue to him right there.
All right, Jenna, it's always great to see you.
Thank you so much.
And I hope you'll come back soon.
Sounds good.
Thanks, Drew.
All right.
All right.
I am out of time.
That went long, but it's always great to talk to her.
And I think, you know, it's really interesting.
It's really going to be interesting to see how this goes.
The Democrats have gone all in on covering up for Biden, covering up for ObamaGate, and keeping us locked down in the hopes, I think, of hurting the economy for Trump.
That doesn't sound like a good strategy to me.
And even with the media backing him up, I think we have a real chance if we focus our minds on the things that are important.
We have a real chance to turn this around and maybe get even more of our government back.
It would be a beautiful thing.
However, it doesn't matter because the Clavenless weekend is here, so you're doomed.
But any of you who manage to scrape and claw and somehow make your way back to Monday, we will be here waiting for you.
I'm Andrew Klavan, and this is The Andrew Klavan Show.
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The Andrew Klavan Show00:00:42
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