Andrew Klavan frames Christmas as God’s story—from Nativity to Resurrection—arguing its themes of sacrifice and rebirth transcend pagan critiques, while dismissing commercialized tales as hollow. Praising A Christmas Carol as the holiday’s only secular masterpiece, he highlights Dickens’ financial struggles and Alistair Sim’s 1951 Scrooge: a self-righteous miser whose rejection of charity mirrors Jesus’ teachings on wealth over morality. Marley’s ghost forces Scrooge’s skepticism ("I could be an undigested beef") into supernatural confrontation, contrasting with It’s a Wonderful Life’s generosity. Both stories reveal life’s irrevocable connections and death’s permanence, with redemption rooted in internal realization—imagination reshaping reality. Klavan closes by declaring Christmas’s incomprehensible truth through the Hallelujah Chorus. [Automatically generated summary]
And for the 2015th year in a row, Christmas has won.
Trigger warning.
I'm Andrew Clavin, and this is the Andrew Clavin Show.
War on Christmas.
You never stood a chance, you people.
It's Christmas Eve.
It's our 50th show, our 50th show.
Yay, come on.
We have a tree, and it's also the last show of the year.
After this, I'm heading out to celebrate Christmas with my family and forget all about politics and things like that.
So what do we talk about for Christmas Eve?
Because I'm not going to talk about politics on Christmas Eve.
I think I'm going to talk about Christmas.
But it occurred to me as I was thinking about what I wanted to say that Christmas is actually very hard to talk about.
I mean, when you think about what most people say about Christmas, it's either very sentimental, something that could come out of a commercial for food and, you know, family and all this stuff, very traditional, or it's kind of belligerently religious.
I mean, it's one thing to say it's religious, it's a religious holiday, but also that, you know, this kind of like, put the Christ back into Christmas, put that Christ back, you took that Christ, I put it back in Christmas, you know, which I don't think somehow just didn't quite capture the spirit of the season for me, you know?
So what is it?
I mean, Christmas, obviously, I don't have to tell you.
It's the story of the virgin birth and Mary and Joseph.
Joseph could have dumped Mary for getting pregnant when they hadn't been doing anything, but he didn't.
He stuck with her and he took her to Bethlehem for the census and there she delivered and Christ is born in a manger and put in a manger, which may have been in a shed or it may have been in a cave where they frequently kept the goats and all that.
And that's, you know, there are a lot of stories in myth and in history of virgin births and a lot of stories of, you know, heroes who are born in obscure circumstances, heroes whose father is not their father and so on like that.
A lot of stories like that.
But of course it matters who is being born and who this particular person is.
And one of the things about Christ is he's an historical figure and so he has a very distinct personality and what he does and what his life is speaks backward into the birth.
So anyway, what we're really celebrating is the beginning of a story because whether you believe in Jesus or not, this is a story that is being told and we tell it through the year, but we also tell it within the church.
We tell it with rites and rituals.
And we tell stories to express things that we can't otherwise say.
Every novelist, I'm a novelist, when you ask me what my novel is about, I'll tell you the basic plot of it.
But if somebody says, yeah, but what's it really about?
I say, well, if I could have said that, I would have written that because it's easier, it's shorter.
And I could have gone home for lunch, you know.
But instead, you tell a story because it expresses something.
It expresses the experience that you can't express otherwise.
When you try to say to somebody what it was like to pitch a no-hit or what it was like to fall in love, you find yourself saying, it was like this.
And then you tell a story.
It was like waking up on Christmas Eve.
It was like, you know, walking on clouds.
It was like, you tell a story, a metaphor that expresses the inner life.
And so this is a story that God is telling, essentially, about himself.
This is a story that begins on Christmas Eve and goes through the crucifixion and the resurrection.
And it's a story that if God could have spoken it, if he could have told us what it was about, if he could have just said, listen, this is what I'm like.
This is what life is like.
This is what life is about.
He would have done it.
I mean, he could have just sent a letter.
It would have been a lot less suffering, a lot less bloodshed, a lot less tears.
So he tells this story.
So Christmas is the start of a story.
And stories are, as I say, to express things that we can't otherwise express.
And so we tell stories about Christmas.
Christmas begins with its own story, and then we tell stories about Christmas, and we celebrate Christmas with all these rituals.
A lot of people get angry about Christmas and say, well, you know, it's really a pagan holiday.
It's the Roman Saturnalia.
It's the barbaric Yule celebration, something like this.
And it's not fair.
It's not truthful that we took it over and made it a Christian holiday.
I feel exactly the opposite.
I feel that that's what we're here for.
I feel that we are here to transform ourselves, make ourselves first closer to the image of God, and then make the world closer to the image of God.
And so it's the Christian's duty to turn every good thing into a Christian thing.
And the idea, you know, is that these images, these images of virgin birth, these images of heroes who die and are resurrected, these images are in our mind already.
This is what C.S. Lewis said.
C.S. Lewis called them good dreams that we had before Jesus came.
When there's a lot of stuff like that in our heads, archetypes of what things are supposed to be like.
We know that men are supposed to be brave.
We know that women are supposed to be loving.
We know that mom is supposed to be nurturing and merciful, and dad is supposed to be strong and just.
You know, people say, well, you know, that's evolution.
We evolved along those lines.
Maybe.
I mean, that kind of strikes me as telling the story backwards.
You start with the event, and then you say, well, this is what caused it.
There's no proof that this is something that evolved.
No proof that it wasn't something just implanted in our minds.
But whether it was evolution or not, it doesn't matter.
It's there.
We have these images of what things should be.
And it makes sense that if there's a God, we would have images in our mind of who God is, what he would be like, and what it would be like if he came to be with us.
And so those things are there.
And those myths of rebirth and death and rebirth, there's myths of the virgin birth and all that were just to prepare us for what we knew we were going to see in the same way when we look at our father and know he should be strong and just, if he's not, we have something in our head there already that we judge him against.
So we tell all these stories.
And so many Christmas stories, so many Christmas stories are bad.
I mean, this is the thing.
If you turn on the Hallmark channel, you can watch one bad Christmas story after another.
When I analyze why so many stories are bad, sentimental trash, it seems to me that they're always because the Christmas story is about a problem getting solved.
A lonely woman who finds a husband, a guy, a family that's in trouble, that finds forgiveness and unity, and is very happy for Christmas.
But really, it's not about Christmas.
It's about them.
It's about the person getting what he wants.
Why Most Christmas Stories Fail00:05:07
And for me, there is actually only one great Christmas story outside of the gospel, and that is Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol.
And I believe that Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol is a great piece of wisdom literature.
Wisdom literature is really stuff mostly that comes out of the East and the Near East.
There's wisdom literature in the Bible, Ecclesiastes and Job.
The Tao Te Ching is one of my favorite pieces of wisdom literature from China.
You know, maybe the Sermon on the Mount, Corinthians, the Letter to Corinthians.
It's stuff that's not just a story.
It may be a story in it, but it's stuff that imparts wisdom, a way to live.
And the Christmas Carol to me is one of the great pieces of wisdom literature.
It was written, obviously, by Charles Dickens, and yet, so help me, it could have come directly from the finger of God.
I mean, it is just a perfect story.
It must have been filmed more times than any other story.
I've never seen anything even anywhere near as good about Christmas.
I first came on this story.
I mean, just I don't have to tell anybody what it's about, but it's about this miser in London who is transformed by meeting first the ghost of his dead partner, Jacob Marley, and then three spirits.
And he becomes, in the words of, in Dickens' words, from this experience, he's a nasty, mean, covetous old sinner, as the book says, but he becomes as good a man as the good old city knew or any other good old city, town, or borough in the good old world.
And that's a famous line from the book, but the line that comes afterwards is often forgotten.
Some people laughed to see the alteration in him, but his own heart laughed, and that was quite enough for him.
So he became both good and joyful.
All right.
Now, I grew up Jewish, and we never had a New Testament in our house.
I didn't read the New Testament until I was in my teens.
I had no concept really of Jesus being divine or anything like that.
But I first found the Christmas Carol in a cartoon version starring Mr. Magoo, which came out in the 60s.
I was a tiny kid, but I love this story.
Mr. Magoo, for those of you who don't know, was voiced by Jim Backus, a terrific actor, and he was a near-sighted little old man.
He was always bumping into things, and that was the joke.
So for some reason, it came into their minds to have him play Scrooge, Mr. Magoo as Scrooge.
And here's the scene of him counting his money to show what a miser he is.
4006, 2012.
Ringle, wringle.
Coins when they mingle make such a lovely sound.
Two guineas and tuppence and trumpets and bob make my ears tingle and keep my heart drop.
Crowns and coppers, little live poppers can make my pulses pound.
Coin in a column can make the ethatical denominational or alphabetical.
Alphabetical, wringle, wringle.
When they hingle makes such a laugh.
That was actually the beginning of the thing that was so successful.
It was the beginning of a series where Mr. Magoo acted in all the classics, like Robin Hood and Frankenstein and all that, which I never missed an episode.
Anyway, that was, I love that.
Obviously, I've always loved ghost stories, and so the fact that it had a ghost in it, and I was little, it wasn't a scary ghost, so I really enjoyed it and all this.
I was really taken with it.
It was also, I loved it so much that it was the first adult book I ever read.
It was the first chapter book I ever read.
And I was very disappointed when I got to the end and realized I was reading an abridgment for children because I thought it was actually the whole book.
So I thought, oh, wow, I've actually read a grown-up book, but it was actually an abridgment.
It was still the first book I ever read that had chapters in it.
And, you know, it wasn't all pictures and things like that.
So I really loved this story.
But the version I like best, second to Dickens' own version, is the British picture, sometimes called Scrooge, sometimes called The Christmas Carol.
It was made in 1951.
It was written by Noel Langley, who wrote the first draft of the famous Wizard of Oz.
So he was a great writer.
And it's mostly, one of the things I love about it is most of the dialogue comes straight out of the book or some kind of transposition of the narrative and all this stuff.
But the thing that elevates this is the actor who plays Scrooge is Alistair Sim.
Now, Scrooge has been played by most of the great British actors.
Some of the great Americans.
George C. Scott played him in one television special.
Michael Caine played him in the Muppets version.
He's been played by a lot of terrific actors.
They never get him, as far as I'm concerned.
And the reason they never get him is they always play him the way we see him, as a grouchy, mean old man.
But Sim plays him as the way he sees himself.
He plays him as a completely justified person.
He's got it figured out.
He's the one who's got the right idea, and everybody else is wrong.
And that is an act of acting genius.
So watch, here's a scene where he comes in on Christmas Eve, and these two guys are collecting charities right out of the book, almost word for word.
Alistair Sim's Scrooge00:06:02
Two guys are collecting charity, and he explains to them why he's not going to give them a penny.
At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge, it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute.
Are there no prisons?
Plenty of prisons.
And the union workhouses, are they still in operation?
They are.
I wish I could say they were not.
And the treadmill and the poor law, they're still in full vigor, I presume.
Both very busy, sir.
Oh, from what you said at first, I was afraid that something had happened to stop them in their useful course.
I'm very glad to hear it.
I don't think you quite understand us, sir.
A few of us are endeavoring to raise a fund to buy the poor some meat and drink and means of warmth.
Why?
Because it is at Christmas time that want is most keenly felt and abundance rejoices.
What can I put you down for?
Nothing.
You wish to be anonymous.
I wish to be left alone.
Since you asked me what I wish, sir, that is my answer.
I help to support the establishments I have mentioned.
Those who are badly off must go there.
Many can't go there, and some would rather die.
If they would rather die, they'd better do it and decrease the surplus population.
Besides, it's not my business.
Isn't it?
No.
It is enough for a man to understand his own business without interfering with other people's.
Mine occupies me constantly.
Good afternoon, gentlemen.
I love when they say, we're endeavoring to help the poor.
He says, why?
Why?
And he's making, you know, he says he pays his taxes.
There are provisions in the government to take care of the poor.
Why are they bothering him?
It's not his business.
He has other things to take care of, his own business.
You know, when this came out, Dickens wrote this novel at a moment.
He was, of course, one of the most successful novelists right off the bat, one of the first writer celebrities.
But he went into a bad patch and he was hurting for money.
And he had this inspiration.
He wrote this in about six weeks.
And the minute it came out, it was a huge success.
And one person, one critic called it the fifth gospel.
And it really, it almost can support that.
And one of the things I just want to point out is that it's all about money.
And this is one of the things we forget about the Gospels.
And I go to church all the time, and they forget it in church as well.
The Gospels, there's so much more in the Gospels about money than there is about sex.
I don't know how many more times Jesus talks about money.
He almost never talks about sex.
He never talks about homosexuality.
He never talks about what kind of sex you have.
Whenever he meets somebody who's committed a sexual sin, he's always very forgiving about it and almost kind of ironical about it.
He warns about, you know, he's following the rules and treating people fairly.
But he really is on and on about money.
And he's not touting poverty.
He's just touting the way, he's just telling you to let go of the things that seem important, the things that, he says, these things will be taken care of for you if you pay attention to the kingdom of God.
Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things will be given unto you.
You know, you'll get to them in time.
Okay, so now we've got this guy's like just wrapped up in money, and this is the key moment when Jacob Marley, his dead partner, who was just as greedy as he was, shows up in the form of a ghost.
This is the only ghost in the story, by the way.
All the other spirits are, in fact, spirits.
This is the only ghost of a dead person.
You don't believe in me.
I don't.
Why do you doubt your sense?
Because a little thing affects them.
A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheek.
You, you might be an undigested beef.
A piece of cheese.
A fragment of an underdone potato.
There's more of gravy than of grave in you.
Whatever you are.
Do you see that?
Toothpick.
I do.
You're not looking at it?
But I see it not withstanding.
Well then, I've just got to swallow this and I'll be tortured for the rest of my life by a legion of hobgoblins.
All of my own creation.
It's all humbug, I tell you!
Mercy to me, man of the worldly mind, do you believe in me or not?
Do I do?
I do.
I must.
Man of the worldly mind, do you believe in me or not?
That is, to me, one of the most profound questions in all of literature.
And if you don't think, I mean, don't we see this when we listen to Bill Maher talk about religion, when we listen to Richard Dawkins and Steven Pinker talk about religion, when they tell us that the self is an illusion?
The self is an illusion thrown up by the brain.
The spirit is an illusion thrown up by the brain.
That's all he's saying.
He's saying, I could trick myself into seeing a spirit.
If I eat this toothpick, I'll see a million spirits.
And Marley doesn't argue with him.
Marley says, you're looking right at me.
That's where he starts out.
Marley says the same thing twice.
He says, you're looking right at me.
You see me.
Why would you doubt me?
You know I'm there.
And when Scrooge makes this argument, this materialist argument, oh, well, you could be an illusion, he just lets out this shriek, this terrifying shriek.
And in the book, it's described as just this absolutely terrifying shriek because he knows, Scrooge knows, he doesn't have to argue.
There is no argument.
He knows the spirit is there.
And he says, I do believe I must.
I must believe.
And when he's confronted with this spirit who is now being punished, he's walking around in chains because he failed to do good in life.
He failed to establish relationships with the poor, with the people he should have loved.
And now he's doomed to walk the earth looking at those relationships so that he could have helped, but he doesn't.
The Power of Imagination00:13:14
You know, one of the things that's really interesting is the second best Christmas movie ever made is probably It's a Wonderful Life with Jimmy Stewart.
And everybody's seen this a million times.
But if you pay attention to it, it's the mirror image of this story.
It's the exact same story told in reverse.
This is a story about a miser, a greedy guy, who is shown by supernatural agents he's taken through his life to see how his life has gone wrong.
And It's a Wonderful Life is about a generous guy who is so generous that he comes a cropper, he gets in trouble, and he's taken through a supernatural agent, an angel, to see what the world would be like if he hadn't lived.
And it's almost the exact same story, just told in, it really is like a mirror image.
And if you watch It's a Wonderful Life, a lot of the same issues come up.
We have a brief clip of It's a Wonderful Life with the angel.
This is the angel Henry Travers confronting George Bailey, who is out of money because he's just given everything away, and all his dreams haven't been realized.
And he's tried to, he was going to commit suicide, and the angel saved him.
I'm your guardian angel.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
Ridiculous of you to think of killing yourself for money.
$8,000.
Yeah, now, just things like that.
How do you know that?
I told you, I'm your guardian angel.
I know everything about you.
Well, you look about like the kind of an angel I'd get.
Sort of a fallen angel, aren't you?
What happened to your wings?
I haven't worn my wings yet.
That's why I'm an angel second class.
I don't know whether I like it very much being seen around with an angel without any wings.
Oh, I've got to earn them.
And you'll help me, won't you?
Sure, sure.
How?
By letting me help you.
Only one way you can help me.
You don't happen to have 8,000 bucks on you.
Oh, no.
No, we don't use money in heaven.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
I keep forgetting it.
Comes in pretty handy down here, Bob.
Oh, tut, tut, tut, tut.
I found it out a little late.
I'm worth more dead than alive.
Now, look, you mustn't talk like that.
I won't get my wings with that attitude.
You just don't know all that you've done.
If it hadn't been for you.
Yeah, if it hadn't been for me, everybody would be a lot better off.
My wife and my kids and my friends.
Look, little fellow, why don't you go off and haunt somebody else?
No, now you don't understand.
I got my job.
Oh, shut up.
What do you got?
Oh, this isn't going to be so easy.
Yeah, so you still think killing yourself would make everyone feel happier, eh?
Well, I don't know.
I guess you're right.
I suppose it'd been better if I'd never been born at all.
What did he say?
I said, I wish I'd never been born.
Oh, you mustn't say things like that.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
That's an idea.
What do you think?
Yeah, that'll do it.
All right.
So he takes him back.
Obviously, we've all seen it.
He takes him back and shows him the world.
He extracts him from the world and shows him the way he was connected to everybody.
He was connected to so many people.
I mean, people he's never even met die because he wasn't there.
It's the mirror image of what the spirits of Christmas past, present, and future do to Scrooge, which is they take him and show him his past life and the connections that he's not making in his present life.
What the ghost of Christmas present shows him is all these people poor.
It doesn't matter how poor they are, they're connected to each other, and he's not.
He's the spirit.
He says, of these people spirits, Scrooge says to him, and he says, no, we're the spirits.
We're the ones that aren't connected.
We're the disjointed ones.
And he shows what he's showing him is all about what Marley said to him.
Marley says, to a man of the worldly mind, do you believe in me or not?
Once he says, I must believe in you, then he understands that the past and the present and the future are all held together by one thing, him.
He stays the same.
He is a story.
He's a story with a beginning, a middle, and an end.
You know, he gets, you go in life, you go from being a little baby to being an old man or woman, but it's always you.
And you know this, right?
Because you know that cruel things that were done to you when you were three years old haunt you forever.
Things that you did that embarrassed you when you were 11.
You wake up in the middle of the night as a 50-year-old man or woman and you go, oh, I'm so embarrassed, so embarrassing this thing.
It's always you.
And so you realize there is this story being told by your flesh in the same way that Jesus is a story about God.
Jesus' life is stories about God.
Your life is a story about you with a beginning, middle, and an end.
And one of the things that has always fascinated me about a Christmas Carol is even though Marley talks about the judgment that's been laid on him, when the ghost of, when the spirit of Christmas yet to come shows Scrooge's own death, he doesn't show him any punishment.
He doesn't show him hell.
He doesn't say, all he shows him is that all the connections that he could have made in life don't exist.
He dies a lonely old man.
And all he shows him is his own grave.
Take a look at this.
We have that clip.
Before I draw nearer to that stone, answer me one question.
Are these the shadows of things that must be?
are the only shadows of things that might be that men's deeds foreshadow certain ends.
But if the deeds be departed from, surely the ends will change.
He says,
tell me I'm not already dead, which is exactly the opposite of what George Bailey says, make me alive again.
It is really, they are the two stories are exactly the same in mirror image.
But what's really fascinating, has it ever bothered you that, like, didn't Scrooge know he was going to die?
Didn't he know?
We all know we're going to die.
So why does he fall?
That anguished cry.
Why does he fall?
Why is that the transformative thing?
It's because now, I think it's because now he's realized that he is this connected spirit.
He lives, it's all one story.
It's his story, and it ends.
This story has an ending, and it's a certain ending.
Look at how Walt Disney, they made a Mickey Mouse version.
They've done every kind of version.
And it literally is a Mickey Mouse version because Scrooge McDuck is playing Scrooge.
And look at the same scene, except they change it so that Walt Disney can explain it to kids.
Spirit.
Whose only grief is this?
Why, yours, Ebenezer!
It's just man in the cemetery!
Disney doesn't want you to make any mistakes about what's going on, but...
But Dickens doesn't do that.
Dickens just shows you that you die.
He shows you something that you know to be true.
You don't know whether there's judgment after death, but you know you're going to die.
And that's enough because what's happened is he has lost the chance.
He has done what Marley said he was going to do.
He's lost the chance to make any of the connections, the emotional connections that he could have made in life.
The other thing that always fascinates me about both It's a Wonderful Life and a Christmas Carol, and this is maybe the most important thing in a way because it's the thing that applies to our life.
Nothing changes for either George Bailey or Charles Dickens or Ebenezer Scrooge.
They come back to the life that is exactly the same as it was.
Now, toward the end, Bailey's financial problems are all worked out.
But when he comes back and he's screaming, yay, yay, hooray, nothing's changed.
Everything's the same.
When Ebenezer Scrooge comes back from this experience, all the people he's hurt are still hurt.
He's still lost the love of his life.
He's still, you know, he's still done all the things that he's done.
And yet he is changed.
So watch the image of, the great image of Scrooge, his redemption.
There's the corner where the spirit of Christmas presents.
And there's the door where Jake and Marley's ghost came through.
And there's the window where I saw the wandering spirit.
It's right, it's true.
It all happened to me.
I don't know what day of the month it is.
I don't know how long I've been amongst the spirits.
I don't know anything.
I never did know anything.
And now I know that I don't know anything.
I don't know anything.
I never did know anything.
But now I know that I don't know all the Christmas mornings.
The great wisdom of Socrates.
I know that I don't know anything.
Dickens wrote this story so brilliantly because it could all be a dream.
And what Scrooge says is he looks around the room and he says, it's all right, it's all true, it all happened.
And he knows that it's almost as if it doesn't matter whether it's a dream or not.
We know it's not a dream, but it could have been.
It could have been a dream.
And the reason for that is this is a story about where our relationships live and where our self lives, our soul lives.
It lives in the imagination.
People don't understand the imagination.
They think things that happen in the imagination are imaginary.
That's not true.
The best way to think about the imagination, and this really comes from the romantic thinkers, is as an organ of perception like your eye or your ear.
Your eye can be deceived.
You can see things that aren't there.
You can imagine things that aren't there.
But when you see something truly, you are seeing something that is really there, and you're seeing it as you see it.
I mean, all of us, you know, this desk may be a series of atoms, a little energy field in one way, but my experience of this desk is as a desk, and I see it as a desk.
My life may be things that I can't comprehend, but I imagine it as a whole, as a story in my imagination.
And I think that imagination is accurate.
The poet John Keats said, a man's life of any worth is a continual allegory, and very few eyes can see the mystery of his life, a life like the scriptures, figurative.
Your life, Scrooge's life, Scrooge says at the end that he's going to live in the past, the present, and the future.
That's what he pledges to the spirits at the end.
I promise to live in the past, the present, and the future.
He promises to live as a spirit.
And he promises then to associate with other people as spirits, because the story of our lives is a story about something that goes on beyond our lives.
That is really the key thing.
Once you understand, once you say to yourself, I do believe I must, I believe in this spirit, then you understand that you're dealing with something, a story that ends, but that tells a story about something that goes on.
Once you begin to relate to yourself like that, once you begin to relate to other people like that, the commandment to love God and love your neighbors starts to make entire sense.
You are dealing with relationships that go on forever.
They are not, it is not imaginary at all.
It is your imagination perceiving something that is really there.
And the same thing is true of the Christmas story itself, of Jesus Christ.
There are people all through history who have said, you know, for 2,000 years who have said, this is a dream.
This is just a dream.
But Ebenezer Scrooge is exactly right.
It's all real.
It's all true.
It all happened.
And it changes the way you see everything.
When you tell that story, when you live that story, when you believe in that story and have faith in that story, it changes the way you see everything.
We're going to end today with the last Christmas stuff I like, which is the Hallelujah Chorus.
It's sung by the Three Roach Sisters.
It's a bravura, bravura performance from their album, Keep On Doing, I think it's called.
Listen, folks, Merry Christmas to everyone.
This is all true, pal.
You are loved beyond your ability to understand.
So rejoice today and rejoice forevermore.
I'm Andrew Clavin.
This is the Andrew Clavin Show.
We'll be back next year.
Hallelujah, hallelujah For the Lord God omnipotent, reigneth!