Knowledge Fight - #704: 9/11, Part 2
Aired: 2022-07-20
Duration: 02:22:19


=== Bright Spots in the Garden (03:51) ===

[00:00:21]  I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys.
[00:00:28]  Knowledge fight.
[00:00:29]  Dan and George.
[00:00:30]  Knowledge fight.
[00:00:32]  I need money.
[00:00:36]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:40]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:42]  Stop it.
[00:00:43]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:46]  It's time to pray.
[00:00:47]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:48]  You're on the air.
[00:00:49]  Thanks for holding us.
[00:00:50]  I love your word.
[00:00:52]  Knowledge fight.
[00:00:55]  Not knowledgefight.com.
[00:00:58]  I love you.
[00:00:59]  Hey, everybody.
[00:00:59]  Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.
[00:01:01]  I'm Dan.
[00:01:01]  I'm Jordan.
[00:01:01]  We're global dudes like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
[00:01:06]  Oh, indeed we are.
[00:01:07]  Dan.
[00:01:08]  Jordan.
[00:01:08]  Dan.
[00:01:09]  Jordan.
[00:01:09]  Quick question for you.
[00:01:10]  What's up?
[00:01:10]  What's your bright spot today?
[00:01:11]  Why don't you go first?
[00:01:12]  Dan, do you know what my bright spot is?
[00:01:14]  What's that?
[00:01:15]  Oh, God.
[00:01:16]  No, it's not tennis.
[00:01:17]  It's Sarah and I went and played tennis earlier this afternoon.
[00:01:21]  Wonderful.
[00:01:22]  Yes, Sarah Shockey, friend of the show party, and Sarah Love Wrestling.
[00:01:26]  She is good.
[00:01:27]  Uh-oh.
[00:01:27]  She's got to serve, man.
[00:01:29]  She was blasted in some that I was like, well, I'm going to take a little sit down.
[00:01:34]  I could see that.
[00:01:35]  I feel like she probably is a person who has about a million talents that...
[00:01:40]  Like, you just don't expect.
[00:01:42]  100%.
[00:01:42]  Everything you accidentally...
[00:01:45]  Like, you go to, like, a knife-throwing place, and it turns out she's a dead eye.
[00:01:49]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:01:50]  No, I threw knives for a while whenever I was in college, and you're like, what?
[00:01:53]  How do...
[00:01:54]  What?
[00:01:54]  Yeah, that's what...
[00:01:55]  Yeah, she collects being good at skills.
[00:01:57]  Yeah, so you got your ass kicked?
[00:01:59]  Uh, no!
[00:02:00]  I think we were pretty...
[00:02:01]  We were on a pretty even keel.
[00:02:03]  Okay, this is just your way of bragging.
[00:02:04]  No, no, no, no.
[00:02:05]  Everywhere but that serve, where she was just...
[00:02:09]  So just acing you?
[00:02:10]  Acing me!
[00:02:11]  Like it wasn't even hard.
[00:02:15]  What's your bright spot?
[00:02:16]  Well, as many people know, I have started to grow some plants again.
[00:02:21]  Indeed.
[00:02:21]  And so I've got a couple of cucumbers coming up, a couple of seedlings.
[00:02:26]  I also have some grow bags with potatoes that I put in there.
[00:02:31]  And I have no faith in these potatoes to grow at all.
[00:02:34]  You have no faith in yourself or in potatoes in general?
[00:02:37]  Myself.
[00:02:38]  I just feel like there's something weird about putting a potato in the ground and then expecting something to happen.
[00:02:45]  It's very weird.
[00:02:46]  That is fair.
[00:02:47]  But I was just in there and I was looking at the soil and little buds are coming up out of the potato.
[00:02:55]  Nice.
[00:02:55]  Like out of the dirt growing from the spud.
[00:02:59]  So that's really exciting.
[00:03:00]  It is.
[00:03:01]  It is fun that sometimes you can really take a step back and think, you know, I bet a long time ago somebody just threw a potato and then a bunch of potatoes grew wherever it landed.
[00:03:12]  Whenever the land was filled with nothing, you just threw a potato and potatoes would show up.
[00:03:17]  That's magic!
[00:03:19]  I had a little compost thing going and I had a bean, I think.
[00:03:24]  A pinto bean, maybe.
[00:03:25]  I'm not sure what it was.
[00:03:27]  But yeah, I think it was a pinto bean.
[00:03:28]  It was in...
[00:03:32]  It sprouted.
[00:03:34]  It was in the garbage and it still sprouted.
[00:03:37]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:03:38]  It was nuts.
[00:03:39]  It was just coffee grinds and dirt and it just took.
[00:03:43]  It's so funny how so many plants are like, there's just no way to make this grow.
[00:03:47]  And then there are tons where you're like, stop!
[00:03:49]  Leave me alone!
[00:03:50]  Get away from me!
[00:03:51]  Yep.
[00:03:52]  So something that also you would yell, stop, get away from me, too, is Alex Jones.

=== Policy Wonk's Perspective (11:26) ===

[00:03:58]  There we go!
[00:03:59]  Now that's a segue.
[00:04:01]  And you're going to feel that way today as we continue our part two, or we go into part two of our examination of his coverage of 9-11, 2001.
[00:04:12]  Surreal.
[00:04:13]  We are now on to the evening show, which is 9 to midnight.
[00:04:20]  If you haven't listened to the first one, go ahead and do that, because there's some prerequisite experience.
[00:04:25]  Does it get better?
[00:04:25]  Does it get better?
[00:04:25]  No.
[00:04:26]  Does not.
[00:04:27]  I was thinking about it after we left.
[00:04:29]  Get ready for a weird ride.
[00:04:30]  I was thinking about it after we left, after we were done recording, and I'm just like, in my head, I really don't believe if you had told me 20 years ago, if you had...
[00:04:40]  Showed me the broadcast.
[00:04:41]  I would not have believed it was happening.
[00:04:44]  Right, right.
[00:04:44]  If I came up to you and I was like, hey, Alex Jones says that the EU probably did 9-11 in order to help strengthen the euro.
[00:04:53]  This is before YouTube.
[00:04:54]  That's a great observation, I guess.
[00:04:57]  Sure.
[00:04:58]  Absurd.
[00:04:58]  Yeah, there's a lot of surprises going on.
[00:05:01]  And there's some more today.
[00:05:04]  But first, before we get into any of that, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wonks.
[00:05:08]  Oh, that's a great idea.
[00:05:09]  So first, Frank of Frank's Beach.
[00:05:11]  Thank you so much.
[00:05:12]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:05:13]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:05:14]  Thank you very much!
[00:05:15]  Next, Alex's atrophied sense of shame.
[00:05:18]  Thank you so much.
[00:05:19]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:05:20]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:05:21]  Thank you very much!
[00:05:23]  We're not too late on this.
[00:05:25]  Just a little bit late.
[00:05:26]  But happy birthday to Rachel S. Thank you so much.
[00:05:29]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:05:30]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:05:31]  Thank you very much!
[00:05:32]  Next, Stu from Arkansas.
[00:05:33]  Thank you so much.
[00:05:34]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:05:35]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:05:36]  Thank you very much!
[00:05:41]  I'm a policy wonk!
[00:05:42]  Thank you very much.
[00:05:43]  And Kirby's return to dreamy, creamy land.
[00:05:46]  Thank you so much.
[00:05:46]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:05:48]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:05:49]  That one was well done.
[00:05:51]  Yeah.
[00:05:51]  That was a good one.
[00:05:52]  So before we get into the episode proper, I wanted just to give a little bit of apology and clarification, I guess.
[00:05:59]  I used the term Afghani to refer to a person on the last episode, and that is incorrect.
[00:06:05]  I was unaware of this.
[00:06:06]  I got a tweet about this, and I appreciate the person correcting me on that.
[00:06:10]  I don't know why.
[00:06:12]  I guess I...
[00:06:13]  I had no idea.
[00:06:14]  It's Afghan is the term for a person.
[00:06:17]  Afghani is a monetary unit.
[00:06:19]  Oh, sure.
[00:06:21]  It's just completely in my blind spot.
[00:06:23]  I've heard people referred to in that way in contexts and places where it didn't seem like it was offensive.
[00:06:32]  Sure.
[00:06:33]  And so I guess I had just assumed.
[00:06:36]  Straight up, if you had told me, I would have told you that I swear I heard people say it on TV a few days ago.
[00:06:42]  I have no idea.
[00:06:45]  I'm glad that I didn't say it and you did.
[00:06:47]  I appreciate learning more, though.
[00:06:49]  Yes, me too.
[00:06:50]  So, look, I decided that if I was going to do this episode here covering Alex's shows on 9-11, it would be important that it not just be the only way that I experience the tragedy.
[00:07:01]  Sure.
[00:07:02]  I was alive when this happened, of course, but it's been 21 years and some of the memories have faded.
[00:07:07]  It'd be wildly incomplete for me to approach this and just rely on my own memories and Alex's bullshit.
[00:07:13]  It's not fair.
[00:07:14]  I can read documents and reports, but those are a little bit sterile and unfeeling.
[00:07:19]  And one of the unexpected things about Alex's morning show that we covered on our last episode was that he didn't seem to have a human response to the attack.
[00:07:27]  Though he said it was the most important day in like a century, the show didn't have a feeling that conveyed the gravity of what people were experiencing.
[00:07:34]  He took calls and people were crafting conspiracies out of bizarre numerology.
[00:07:39]  He had guests, but they were people who, you know, weren't that affected or they were trying to sell gold.
[00:07:45]  This all felt like a huge disrespect to the people who were living through hell, pushing their experience to the side in order to use it for your own purposes.
[00:07:53]  And I wanted to make sure that I held on to a little bit of the severity of the subject we're covering.
[00:07:58]  This is a show that's meant to be funny and entertaining, so it's easy to put on that facade of not taking things too seriously and being, like, glib.
[00:08:06]  In order to make sure I held on to some semblance of perspective, as I dealt with Alex, I decided that it would be helpful to also watch various news outlets' live coverage of the tragedy.
[00:08:16]  So I watched hours and hours of live CBS, local Fox affiliate, CNN coverage of the day.
[00:08:29]  And I have a lot of feelings.
[00:08:31]  I believe you.
[00:08:32]  Yeah.
[00:08:32]  I was telling you that I'm a bit tired.
[00:08:34]  Yeah.
[00:08:34]  Yeah.
[00:08:35]  Because you spent all night watching 9-11.
[00:08:39]  Not all night.
[00:08:39]  A lot of that was during the day.
[00:08:41]  Sure, sure.
[00:08:42]  But I mean, it is a strange day to be like, oh, you know what I think I'll do?
[00:08:45]  I think I'll just do 9-11 again.
[00:08:47]  A couple times.
[00:08:48]  Are you Zagami?
[00:08:49]  Because you did 9-11.
[00:08:51]  Yeah.
[00:08:53]  Part of it was I wanted to get a sense of the information space that Alex would have been living in before he got on air at 9pm.
[00:09:00]  I wanted to get a sense of how the media was covering it.
[00:09:05]  Because so much of Alex's entire point...
[00:09:08]  About anything is drawing broad conclusions from how he feels the media is doing something.
[00:09:14]  About other people's reporting.
[00:09:16]  Right.
[00:09:16]  He takes cues that he sees, imagined or not, in the media and pretends that they're the directives and marching orders of the globalists.
[00:09:24]  And so something that I felt would be kind of important was experiencing a bit of that.
[00:09:30]  And luckily...
[00:09:30]  You can find pretty much full coverage videos on YouTube.
[00:09:35]  It's a pretty well documented day.
[00:09:36]  And there's, yeah, I found a YouTube channel that has a lot of very important days, like just straight news coverage.
[00:09:43]  Oh, really?
[00:09:43]  Yeah, it's a very good resource.
[00:09:45]  That's kind of interesting.
[00:09:45]  Yeah, so I didn't watch too much of that.
[00:09:48]  Yeah.
[00:09:48]  Some of that will inform some of the stuff that we get into today, but I'll give you the CliffsNotes version of this.
[00:09:54]  Alex's show is really bad.
[00:09:57]  It's terrible.
[00:09:58]  We rightly criticize the media for a lot of sensationalism, and there are tons of other problems with the big networks, but for the most part, and I'm not vouching for anything they did on September 12th, but they seem to handle a lot of that coverage fairly well.
[00:10:16]  I was pretty impressed.
[00:10:19]  By the coverage as events were unfolding.
[00:10:22]  There was a respect for what was happening.
[00:10:25]  There was a restraint in leaping to conclusions.
[00:10:30]  The CBS one was the first one I watched.
[00:10:35]  And they took forever to even admit that it wasn't an accident.
[00:10:39]  Right.
[00:10:40]  You know, they had a real resistance to using terminology around terrorism.
[00:10:44]  We don't know who's done this.
[00:10:45]  We don't have a clear picture.
[00:10:47]  There's not enough information coming in yet.
[00:10:49]  We know this is a tragedy, but we don't know who's, you know, all that stuff.
[00:10:52]  Yeah, and another point that I really found, it didn't jibe with how I remembered things and how the stories are told.
[00:11:01]  About 9-11 was that there really wasn't a hard finger pointed at Bin Laden until quite a bit later.
[00:11:11]  It was in the evening.
[00:11:13]  No, I mean in the evening there was sort of a consensus coming around that it's probably him.
[00:11:19]  This is a good suspect.
[00:11:21]  But the story that we tell is that like...
[00:11:25]  Immediately, they said it was Osama bin Laden.
[00:11:28]  And that isn't the case.
[00:11:29]  Oh, no.
[00:11:30]  There's a Palestinian group that took responsibility for it initially, and that was a lot of the conversation of, like, is this a credible taking responsibility for this?
[00:11:39]  Right.
[00:11:40]  And then, you know, bin Laden is brought up as a possible person because...
[00:11:46]  He attacked it before.
[00:11:47]  Right.
[00:11:47]  Right, right, right.
[00:11:48]  Past behavior is a predictor of future events.
[00:11:50]  It's a bit in the MO.
[00:11:51]  Yeah.
[00:11:52]  But then also, like, the possibility of state actors.
[00:11:55]  Of course.
[00:11:55]  You know, there's more of a conversation about possibilities.
[00:12:01]  And I was kind of surprised to experience that, because I thought I'd go back and it'd be like, so much Bin Laden talk, like, straight out.
[00:12:07]  Yeah.
[00:12:08]  And that was not the, what do you find?
[00:12:11]  Interesting.
[00:12:11]  Yeah.
[00:12:12]  Maybe not super earth-shattering, but a little interesting.
[00:12:16]  No, I mean, that's a question that I really hadn't thought of in the past, but I don't...
[00:12:21]  Like, my memory of it, I didn't remember people even throwing around, like, here's who did it at all for a while.
[00:12:29]  Like, for at least a couple of days or so for me, it's just people were like, whoa, that was fucked up!
[00:12:35]  Terror!
[00:12:36]  You know, like, that whole thing.
[00:12:37]  They didn't actively put a name on it for a while.
[00:12:40]  Yeah, and I think that a large amount of the coverage that you find...
[00:12:46]  or that I was watching had to do with more with that human end of it than the who did this although as the day went on certainly there was some conversation of Who did this?
[00:12:59]  Sure.
[00:13:00]  Some of the points that some of the people made were...
[00:13:02]  Racist!
[00:13:03]  I didn't see as much racism as you would have expected.
[00:13:06]  Interesting.
[00:13:07]  But I did see violence.
[00:13:10]  Ooh, got a lot of people...
[00:13:11]  Calls for blood.
[00:13:12]  Blow them up!
[00:13:12]  Kill them all!
[00:13:13]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:14]  Those I do remember happening right away.
[00:13:17]  Yeah, there was a former Secretary of State who was on CNN.
[00:13:20]  I can't remember who it was.
[00:13:21]  It was like Eagle Burger, I think.
[00:13:23]  Yeah.
[00:13:23]  And he was like, look...
[00:13:26]  We gotta kill somebody.
[00:13:29]  Whether we can prove they were directly connected or not, we gotta go and kill somebody.
[00:13:34]  It was like, oh boy.
[00:13:36]  That was what's funny about Alex saying we gotta nuke him on that earlier episode, is that I do remember being briefly a fairly mainstream thought.
[00:13:47]  People would like bandy about like, okay, so what do we do?
[00:13:50]  Do we nuke him?
[00:13:51]  Like, that kind of thing.
[00:13:53]  It's a visceral reaction that you have to a tragedy, like a punch that's coming.
[00:13:59]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:14:00]  And the thing that I found more interesting was that that was part of Alex's response as well, because he likes to pretend that he's above that kind of emotional response, and he's into peace, and he doesn't want to expand wars.
[00:14:14]  The idea of nuking some fucking country, you can't possibly be in favor of that.
[00:14:19]  Even if you prove that their government did 9-11, you're just going to kill so many civilians.
[00:14:24]  Yeah, what are you doing?
[00:14:25]  It's...
[00:14:25]  I mean, essentially, you're declaring war on the Earth, not on people.
[00:14:30]  You know?
[00:14:31]  Yeah.
[00:14:32]  And so, here we are.
[00:14:35]  Yeah.
[00:14:35]  That's where we're at.
[00:14:37]  Some of my thoughts.
[00:14:37]  Gotcha.
[00:14:38]  And there'll be more along the way, I'm sure.
[00:14:39]  We'll keep it going.
[00:14:40]  But here, we start Alex's evening show, and he's striking a familiar tone.
[00:14:46]  All right.
[00:14:46]  All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're live.
[00:14:48]  It is 9-11, 9-1-1, September 11, 2001, an amply numbered date, isn't it?
[00:14:57]  Amply.
[00:14:57]  We're going to be live until midnight this evening, and then more live shows throughout the early morning hours.
[00:15:07]  I have been one of those lone voices out there warning you about government-sponsored terrorism.

=== Buildings Collapsed Suddenly (15:08) ===

[00:15:13]  So there's, again, like an I told you so immediately in the show.
[00:15:18]  And that's really bizarre.
[00:15:21]  Yeah, I was expecting it this time.
[00:15:22]  I was ready.
[00:15:23]  I was prepared for it.
[00:15:24]  I was like, I know right out the gate.
[00:15:26]  He's just going to be like, look at how right I was.
[00:15:28]  It seems like one of the most important things that he wants to stress.
[00:15:33]  Yeah.
[00:15:33]  And to me, that seems shady.
[00:15:36]  I am a prophet of doom.
[00:15:38]  Follow me, for I have predicted what has befallen us.
[00:15:41]  Yep.
[00:15:42]  So, Alex has been watching some of the local and national news, and he has some words.
[00:15:49]  Interesting.
[00:15:49]  I have the latest developments and news and information and an eyewitness joining us live from a mile and a half away from the collapsed World Trade Centers and World Trade Center number seven.
[00:15:59]  A total of five buildings that have collapsed total.
[00:16:06]  Wrong song for that.
[00:16:08]  wrong song involved so we get back i'm gonna go back to april twenty-fourth and at the baltimore sunday book and i think that's just light on secret u_s_ terror plan called human invasion pretext they said it had to be left dead people in u_s_ newspapers without a helpful way with indignation This is important information.
[00:16:30]  Your call's coming up.
[00:16:31]  Stay with us.
[00:16:31]  So local and national news outlets were definitely not reporting that shape charges were used to demolish the building.
[00:16:37]  That is just made up.
[00:16:39]  I'm not sure if it's accurate to say that five buildings had fallen, partially because I just don't know what the definitions we're using are.
[00:16:47]  World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 definitely fully collapsed, and the falling debris essentially destroyed the smaller buildings 3, 4, 5, and 6. But also, there were many non-World Trade Center complex buildings that were destroyed in the attack, and it seems difficult to precisely quantify that.
[00:17:04]  For instance, the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church was destroyed by falling debris.
[00:17:09]  I don't know if this is counted in Alex's factoring.
[00:17:14]  No.
[00:17:15]  It's a particular, I mean, it's a minor point, I guess.
[00:17:18]  But I just don't think that five buildings is an accurate count, regardless of how you define it.
[00:17:23]  Also, it's important to note that Alex seems to also still not know the name of Operation Northwoods or want to say it or something.
[00:17:32]  Strange.
[00:17:32]  There is a consistent non-use of that name, whereas now it's a buzzword for him.
[00:17:39]  Oh, tossed around all the time.
[00:17:40]  Yeah.
[00:17:41]  He loves Operation names.
[00:17:43]  Yeah.
[00:17:43]  Not on 9-11.
[00:17:46]  Well, I mean, that is the most respectful thing he's done so far.
[00:17:51]  Keep Northwood's name at your mouth.
[00:17:53]  Exactly, yeah.
[00:17:54]  That's about as good as we're going to get from him, I'm assuming.
[00:17:57]  Yeah, yeah, I would say so.
[00:17:59]  So there's some things that Alex is just wrong about.
[00:18:01]  Sure.
[00:18:02]  But again, I think that there's a number of things that he's wrong about that are totally acceptable and very understandable.
[00:18:09]  At least five towers are down.
[00:18:12]  Two of them the fourth largest buildings on the planet.
[00:18:17]  Upwards of 20,000 people are dead, at least.
[00:18:23]  Those towers held 50,000 people, thank God.
[00:18:26]  A lot of them hadn't gotten to work yet there on the East Coast at 850 when that first passenger liner smashed into the South Tower.
[00:18:35]  His number is higher than a lot of the numbers that were being thrown around in other news outlets, but I understand that feeling, and I understand that sense of, like I said...
[00:18:46]  You look at something like that and you can't imagine it not killing a million people.
[00:18:50]  No, I mean, yeah.
[00:18:52]  It was a bit like seeing Godzilla knock down a tower and then being like, there were only a few thousand dead.
[00:18:59]  And you're like, I mean, I know that's a tragedy.
[00:19:01]  That's horrific.
[00:19:02]  But also, I really thought the entire fucking area was going to be flat ground.
[00:19:07]  And then you see the videos of people running from the debris cloud.
[00:19:12]  And the way that the debris cloud Envelops them.
[00:19:17]  Exactly.
[00:19:18]  It's unthinkable that you wouldn't...
[00:19:23]  I assume 20,000 people.
[00:19:25]  No, totally.
[00:19:26]  For sure.
[00:19:26]  He is reporting it as 20,000 at least.
[00:19:30]  Right.
[00:19:31]  And that's a little bit strong, but I get it.
[00:19:34]  I don't feel like...
[00:19:36]  I wanted to include something like this, and I try to, whenever there are things that he's wrong about, but he's right to be wrong about.
[00:19:44]  Right, right, right.
[00:19:44]  We didn't have official numbers.
[00:19:46]  He probably shouldn't have thrown around that number that high and definitely shouldn't have confirmed at least, but...
[00:19:52]  If you had asked me, I'd have been like, yeah, sure, 20, 30, 40, that sounds right.
[00:19:57]  Right.
[00:19:57]  I'm not here to nitpick Alex.
[00:19:59]  I'm not here to be like, ha ha, you got this wrong, because I could if I wanted to with that, but I would much rather spend my time on stuff like this.
[00:20:08]  And then the towers began to collapse.
[00:20:11]  I have one of the designers in the Chicago Tribune saying, this is impossible.
[00:20:18]  We've been trying to get a hold of General Benton Parton all night, but his phone has been busy perpetually.
[00:20:23]  We actually had a structural engineer on the show today.
[00:20:29]  That is not how buildings go down in five seconds.
[00:20:32]  So you can see here already that Alex is claiming that he had a structural engineer on his show this morning who said it was a demolition, when in reality he had a friend of his on who had studied some engineering in college but now worked in a financial sector job.
[00:20:47]  The way Alex is seeking to solidify this talking point is for the perception to be that the guest he had on was a person who worked professionally as a structural engineer because that perception strengthens the illusion of his claims, whereas presenting his guest accurately would reveal how flimsy his shit is.
[00:21:03]  Also, this article in the Chicago Tribune, you can find it, it has the headline, quote, engineers shocked by towers collapse.
[00:21:11]  And nowhere in the article does this supposed co-designer claim that the way that the buildings collapsed was impossible.
[00:21:18]  Right.
[00:21:18]  That's a claim that Alex is inventing from thin air.
[00:21:20]  Just adding.
[00:21:21]  The article discusses how Les Robertson, one of the structural engineers of the Trade Center, had given a talk in Frankfurt, Germany, a week before the attacks, and had brought up that the buildings were designed to withstand The article literally says,
[00:21:48]  quote, Burns said Robertson did not elaborate on the remark.
[00:21:52]  The buildings were designed to withstand a crash from smaller planes, like a personal plane, or even up to a 707, but the jets on 9-11 were bigger and modern.
[00:22:02]  I think one of the reasons Alex is doing this is because he's not very creative.
[00:22:06]  This game isn't creative.
[00:22:08]  We can see in present day, every single mass shooting is basically the same thing.
[00:22:12]  They want your guns, the guy's on psych meds, he's an incel, there's basically just bullet points that he applies to each new shooting, regardless of the actual details.
[00:22:22]  of the real situation.
[00:22:23]  This kind of feels similar.
[00:22:25]  He did the controlled demolition secret bombs in the building conspiracy with Oklahoma City, and now, here, he has another situation where buildings were destroyed that he needs to turn into a conspiracy.
[00:22:36]  It only seems natural that he would do the same thing over again.
[00:22:39]  It's so much easier for him, particularly because whenever he's making any kind of argument, he can just say, like they did in OKC, and the audience is primed to lend whatever Alex is saying more credibility.
[00:22:52]  Looking at Alex's behavior here on 9-11, I really don't feel like he's doing anything different from what he always does.
[00:22:59]  He's got a conspiracy archetype that he's working with, and he's applying it to the current hot topic.
[00:23:04]  He has a guest whose expertise is being exaggerated in order to bolster their claims, and he's got headlines that don't say what he reports they do.
[00:23:13]  It's kind of dark, but I mean, I don't really get the sense that this is much more than another day at the office for him.
[00:23:19]  It really is.
[00:23:20]  It really is.
[00:23:22]  I mean, I'm assuming that in two or three days his friend is going to be the top structural engineer in New York City.
[00:23:28]  One of the most prestigious.
[00:23:29]  One of the most prestigious, yeah.
[00:23:30]  He's no longer in the financial sector.
[00:23:32]  No.
[00:23:32]  Actually, I know what he...
[00:23:34]  I see the trick that he's doing.
[00:23:37]  Already in this episode, and it's not that.
[00:23:40]  What he's doing is he's going to try and create a bifurcated identity.
[00:23:44]  Oh, okay.
[00:23:45]  So he'll have his friend who is a financial analyst who was there and was a first-hand account, and then there's another guest.
[00:23:51]  And then his friend will also be a structural engineer, but it's not his friend, it's his other friend.
[00:23:57]  Well, it's implied that they're two different guests.
[00:23:59]  We had a structural engineer, and also I had a friend who was a first-hand account.
[00:24:04]  So that's a smooth way to do it.
[00:24:07]  Right, right, right.
[00:24:09]  And you don't point out that he was actually a financial advisor who may be undergrad.
[00:24:14]  Yeah, it's like when somebody's an expert on MSNBC and then a few years later they show up on Fox Business with a completely different specialty and you're like, what are you fucking doing?
[00:24:24]  So here we see, I mean, look, this is just, I had to sit with this clip.
[00:24:32]  You had to sit and think about this one for a while?
[00:24:33]  Yeah, it really frustrated me.
[00:24:35]  Oh boy.
[00:24:35]  And I was actually listening to local KLBJ radio when they had another structural engineer on from Texas A&M who did part of the analysis back in 1993 for the first World Trade Center momming, saying that this wouldn't happen.
[00:24:50]  And then the host, Jeff Ward, said, yeah, I was watching local news this morning right when it happened.
[00:24:56]  And then about 20 minutes later, 30 minutes later, when the first tower collapsed, the reporters were panicking, saying there had been a giant explosion on the bottom floor.
[00:25:06]  And the sounds are picked up by the audio tape.
[00:25:09]  But the spin machine is in overdrive, just like an Oklahoma City telling us a truck bomb outside blows out columns further back and blast them off cleanly at the bottom, making rebar and concrete disappear.
[00:25:21]  So you can see from that clip what I mean about the OKC stuff.
[00:25:25]  Alex wants to wrap up his talking points and references to OKC, so in order to even address any of his points, it feels like you have to completely re-litigate all of his conspiracies about the Murrah building bombing before you do so.
[00:25:37]  And I'm here to say that you don't have to do that.
[00:25:40]  This is a distraction tactic that Alex is employing, and it's totally okay to just ignore it for now.
[00:25:46]  It's not relevant to the question of whether or not bombs took down the world Right.
[00:25:53]  So I want to track this story here that Alex is telling and illustrate to you how pathetic the level of sourcing he's using is to make this point.
[00:26:01]  Alex was listening to a local show on KLBJ where the host said that he had watched an unspecified local news show where they were saying that there was a giant explosion at the bottom floor of the World Trade Center that was caught on the audio tape and now they're scrambling because there's a cover-up because it got caught to the sound.
[00:26:19]  Oh no.
[00:26:20]  Right.
[00:26:20]  This is useless.
[00:26:22]  Even if you wanted to check on this claim, what would you do?
[00:26:25]  So we know that Jeff Ward is the KLBJ host in question, but what local TV station was he watching?
[00:26:31]  Wouldn't pretty much every local news station be running national coverage since so many of them are NBC or ABC or Fox or CBS affiliates?
[00:26:40]  Like, I watched a fair amount of the news coverage from that day, and this doesn't ring true to me at all.
[00:26:45]  But because of the vagueness of this claim, no matter what I say, Alex could just retreat to the claim that I just didn't watch the right videos.
[00:26:52]  It must have been on another channel.
[00:26:54]  I can definitely say that reporters were freaked out when the buildings collapsed.
[00:26:59]  That was because two giant skyscrapers were falling and dust clouds were racing down the streets towards them, and everyone was essentially running for their lives, having difficulty breathing in thick air.
[00:27:10]  Here, actually, is Alex's nemesis, one of his many nemeses, Mika Brzezinski, who is reporting live from New York, and she had actually taken up shelter in a school running from the buildings falling.
[00:27:25]  Mika Brzezinski is downtown.
[00:27:27]  Mika?
[00:27:28]  Mika, Mika, come down.
[00:27:36]  Hi, Mika Brzezinski here reporting from PS89.
[00:27:39]  It's near the scene of the now collapse of what we believe to be the tower number one of the World Trade Center.
[00:27:47]  I was standing with CBS News correspondent Byron Pitts.
[00:27:49]  We were coordinating our crews in a crowd of people near the corner of Murray Avenue and the West Side Highway when the collapse occurred and literally plumes of smoke.
[00:28:00]  And gases, as the collapse happened, I'm sure you're seeing in the video, began to roll our way.
[00:28:05]  And that is when the crowd went wild.
[00:28:07]  People just began to run.
[00:28:09]  Our live trucks shut down.
[00:28:10]  Crews were running.
[00:28:11]  Reporters were running.
[00:28:12]  People were running.
[00:28:13]  And the cops literally were just waving their arms saying, go, go, go.
[00:28:18]  We are inside this school right now, actually inside a small room, trying to stay clear of the crowds that are trying to get out of the way and also the evacuation of this school.
[00:28:27]  School officials here are trying to get everybody out of the building in an orderly fashion as quickly as possible.
[00:28:33]  But again, there is so much confusion out on the street.
[00:28:36]  It is literally chaos out there.
[00:28:38]  We've got a short timeline here.
[00:28:41]  The school right now is now putting on the intercom where kids need to go to assemble classes.
[00:28:50]  Near Chambers Street, they're trying to organize the classes and get these kids out of here as safely as possible.
[00:28:55]  Right now we're dealing with the air because of the plumes of smoke and gas.
[00:28:59]  As Byron pointed out to me, we needed to move quickly because the smoke that was rolling our way and the debris as well was very thick and it could be very dangerous.
[00:29:07]  It was already a chaotic situation before the collapse happened and this is just piling more danger and damage on top of what was already a very chaotic situation.
[00:29:17]  I'm not sure any of the reporters were too concerned with the bullshit games Alex plays, considering many of them were huddling in a classroom where kids were trying to figure out how to reunite with their families, and everyone was worried about poison air.
[00:29:29]  I don't feel like this is Alex being at all fair.
[00:29:35]  No, I'm going to go ahead and say that, yeah, this one's pretty bad.
[00:29:41]  The previous clip?
[00:29:44]  20,000?
[00:29:45]  Doesn't look so bad in comparison to this clip.
[00:29:48]  Makes things look real fucked up.
[00:29:50]  So, the part about the engineer from Texas A&M presents the same problem as Alex's other sourcing issues.
[00:29:56]  The details provided cannot possibly be sufficient to trace down this claim.
[00:30:00]  I went to the Texas A&M Structural Engineering Department website, and they have 15 faculty members listed.

=== Casualties and Controversies (15:35) ===

[00:30:06]  But you can see how we're no closer to knowing anything.
[00:30:09]  I could go through all of these professors' resumes and find nothing, and well, what if the person Alex was talking about is retired or died?
[00:30:17]  Hey, guess what?
[00:30:18]  There are multiple reports and official reports that have been made about the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
[00:30:26]  I can go and find them, and I have found many of them.
[00:30:31]  Yeah, you really dropped the ball on this one, Dan.
[00:30:39]  There are a lot of built-in loopholes to the details that Alex rattles off to make them more protected from debunking.
[00:30:45]  He attempts to make people prove a negative, like that no Texas A&M professor said this, or that the local news clip he claims he heard a local radio host talk about doesn't exist.
[00:30:55]  And he does that because he couldn't do anything else.
[00:30:58]  He has to force you to do something impossible to prove him wrong, because if you were forced to establish and defend his own claims, he will fail every time.
[00:31:07]  Oh, of course.
[00:31:08]  And if you get him to stay on that, he'll be like, ah, but what about the Oklahoma City bombing?
[00:31:13]  And that will try and get you to start arguing about the OKC bombing, so then you're already forgetting what you were supposed to be arguing about, which was 9-11 in the first place.
[00:31:21]  Yeah, it's once you're not allowed to...
[00:31:25]  He just will distract.
[00:31:28]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:31:29]  Jangling keys, throwing balls everywhere, just like anything shiny to get you away from the point.
[00:31:35]  Yeah, I think this is a good example of that.
[00:31:37]  You're watching mass mind control unfold.
[00:31:42]  Whether the government was involved in it or the European Union as they roll out the euro that's partially goldback, already trading above the dollar.
[00:31:50]  Still going with that.
[00:31:52]  All right.
[00:31:52]  Or if this was actually Osama bin Laden, I want to know why our government funded him throughout the 80s and early 90s, why his family still builds our military bases in Saudi Arabia and around the Middle East, why their family sits on the board of directors of Iridium Satellite.
[00:32:07]  I want to know why we didn't take Saddam out in 1991, 50 miles from downtown Baghdad.
[00:32:13]  See, we've reached the phase of Alex's reporting where he asks a bunch of distracting questions that he knows the answer to.
[00:32:19]  Yep.
[00:32:20]  CIA funded bin Laden because he was fighting the communist enemy that you wanted people to fight.
[00:32:24]  The bin Laden family get a lot of construction contracts because they're not terrorists, and they run a really big construction enterprise.
[00:32:32]  Yeah.
[00:32:32]  Terrorism is not like, ah, it runs in the family.
[00:32:35]  It is not a family-owned business.
[00:32:38]  Same thing with the Iridium satellite thing.
[00:32:41]  It's just people who are doing business who happen to be related to a terrorist and aren't terrorists themselves.
[00:32:46]  In order to claim that this is nefarious or any of this stuff is nefarious, you need to provide some information other than say, like, oh, look, they're cousins!
[00:32:55]  It doesn't work.
[00:32:56]  You might as well just be like, I want to know why they let Osama bin Laden into college.
[00:32:59]  I need to know why that man was allowed to go to college.
[00:33:03]  He's a terrorist.
[00:33:04]  He became a terrorist later on.
[00:33:06]  Why didn't they let him?
[00:33:07]  This is post.
[00:33:09]  You can't undo...
[00:33:11]  Also, as for why they didn't kill Saddam...
[00:33:15]  You got me.
[00:33:15]  I don't really have anything on that.
[00:33:16]  I don't know why...
[00:33:18]  Who knows?
[00:33:19]  Honestly, why...
[00:33:20]  There's probably a strategic reason of some sort, maybe.
[00:33:23]  You know, I don't know.
[00:33:24]  Sometimes it's like who they decide to take a shot at and who they don't is not as...
[00:33:29]  It doesn't make any sense.
[00:33:30]  You know, like, ah, we're going to try and kill this leader, but this guy?
[00:33:36]  Nah, nah, nah, we're not going to do that.
[00:33:38]  I'm not sure what calculus went into that.
[00:33:40]  Yeah, sure.
[00:33:41]  So, I guess if we want to get distracted with that, this is a good way for Alex to not talk about 9-11 on 9-11.
[00:33:47]  I do want to know the math on the CIA's who-do-we-kill list.
[00:33:52]  So, I keep coming back to this because it seems bizarre to me.
[00:33:58]  Alex seems to have no idea about anything about Operation Northwoods except for a blurb from this Baltimore Sun article that is about James Bamford who wrote this book that includes mentions of Operation Northwoods.
[00:34:15]  And it's wild!
[00:34:18]  This is from the Baltimore Sun, posted since April on Infowars.com.
[00:34:26]  We have interviewed James Bamford, former 2020 executive, best-selling author on The Puzzle Palace on the NSA, and of course his new best-selling book, still on the New York Times bestseller list since April, Body of Secrets, a 900-page book that I've already read half of.
[00:34:43]  U.S. military leaders proposed in 1962 a secret plan to commit terrorist attacks against Americans and blame Cuba.
[00:34:50]  To create a pretext for invasion and the ouster of Communist leader Fidel Castro, according to a new book about the National Security Agency.
[00:34:56]  Now, do I support that filth bag, that Communist murder Fidel?
[00:35:00]  No, but I don't support becoming Fidel to fight Fidel.
[00:35:03]  And the main headline is a new book on NSA sheds lights on a secret U.S. terror plan called Human Invasion Pretext.
[00:35:10]  Now this is from the NSA documents, confirmed by the New York Times.
[00:35:13]  He seems to think the name is Cuban Invasion Pretext.
[00:35:17]  It does seem that that's what he said, called...
[00:35:19]  Yeah.
[00:35:20]  I think he's misreading this, uh...
[00:35:22]  What appears to be a book review, maybe, that was in The Baltimore Sun.
[00:35:27]  Right.
[00:35:28]  Of a book that he totally read half of already.
[00:35:31]  He's read half of it.
[00:35:31]  Already.
[00:35:32]  Promise you.
[00:35:32]  He doesn't have really any handle on much of the details outside of what would be in that book review.
[00:35:38]  Yeah, that does seem suspicious, doesn't it?
[00:35:40]  It does.
[00:35:40]  Especially considering that, you know, you're supposed to be this person who would consider a document like that one of the most important things.
[00:35:50]  Absolutely.
[00:35:52]  Furthering your cause of spreading the truth.
[00:35:54]  Totally.
[00:35:55]  You should probably know that thing inside and outside, backwards, forwards.
[00:35:59]  I don't get the sense that he does.
[00:36:01]  I'm pretty sure he has no idea what the name is, because earlier it's like maybe he forgot or he couldn't pull it right away.
[00:36:07]  This is hours later.
[00:36:09]  You should, I mean, you could have even looked at, you could have read the article in the between time.
[00:36:14]  Sure, organize your notes.
[00:36:16]  Yes!
[00:36:17]  Yeah, he doesn't.
[00:36:18]  Nope.
[00:36:18]  But he does hit the surface level of Northwoods really hard.
[00:36:22]  Okay.
[00:36:23]  And let me read that quote to you again.
[00:36:25]  Casualty list, that means list of dead people.
[00:36:27]  In the U.S., newspapers would cause a helpful wave of indignation.
[00:36:34]  And then they admit that we could sink a passenger ship, we could blow up airliners, we could attack Guantanamo Bay and the Marines there using Army dressed up as Cubans.
[00:36:47]  I mean, they're here in this article, quotes from the documents confirmed, wanting to blow up airliners.
[00:36:53]  Now, it was signed on to...
[00:36:56]  The Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted to do it.
[00:36:58]  The Secretary of Defense wanted to do it.
[00:37:00]  And Kennedy, despite all his evils, God bless his soul, became a leader there at the end and said, no way.
[00:37:07]  In fact, I'm abolishing the CIA.
[00:37:09]  And I'm pulling us out of Noms.
[00:37:11]  You people are nuts!
[00:37:12]  Yeah, that's a fun story.
[00:37:14]  Yeah.
[00:37:14]  Yeah, I mean, we've talked about Operation Northwoods a bit in the past, and, you know, it's not what Alex is describing.
[00:37:21]  Yeah.
[00:37:21]  It was fake stuff.
[00:37:24]  Not an actual attack or people dying.
[00:37:28]  The list of casualties would be fake.
[00:37:30]  Yeah, they would be pretend.
[00:37:31]  They would be pretend people, not actual dead.
[00:37:34]  Yeah, Dian really did a lot for Kennedy.
[00:37:37]  I think if he had lived, he would be remembered as a real shit president.
[00:37:41]  But Dian really gave him a lot of good buzz.
[00:37:45]  Certainly, it leads people to...
[00:37:48]  Come up with reasons for his death, and a lot of them end up...
[00:37:52]  Where he's the hero.
[00:37:53]  Right.
[00:37:53]  Because the assassination of a president obviously would have to be pinned on the bad guy.
[00:37:58]  Right.
[00:37:59]  So he must be the good guy if someone killed him.
[00:38:02]  What if the good guy...
[00:38:03]  What if the assassin was the good guy and he saved the world?
[00:38:08]  We never even address that possibility.
[00:38:12]  Get me Doctor Strange.
[00:38:14]  That's what I'm asking for.
[00:38:17]  So, this show, my man?
[00:38:19]  Yeah.
[00:38:20]  It's not a game.
[00:38:21]  Uh-oh.
[00:38:22]  This is real.
[00:38:23]  Is it?
[00:38:24]  No.
[00:38:24]  Oh.
[00:38:25]  And I warned you on the air, this show is not a game.
[00:38:28]  This is not entertainment.
[00:38:30]  This is information.
[00:38:32]  And I warned you over and over and over again to call Washington and to write letters and tell them, we know you're behind the terrorism.
[00:38:39]  Are you blaming us for 9-11?
[00:38:42]  I do have to tell you, I'll walk into a grocery store today.
[00:38:45]  This morning, right after it happened, down the street from my house to get something, everybody announced, Alex, we know you're right.
[00:38:50]  The government blew it.
[00:38:51]  I said, I don't know if that's the case.
[00:38:52]  It may be the EU doing it.
[00:38:53]  I want to announce this could be the EU.
[00:38:55]  There are fissures and divides in this global power structure.
[00:38:58]  Wow.
[00:38:59]  What a time at that grocery store.
[00:39:02]  Everyone's like, Alex, you're so right.
[00:39:04]  You're a hero of 9-11.
[00:39:07]  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[00:39:08]  You knew it.
[00:39:09]  It was the government.
[00:39:11]  I have to correct you?
[00:39:12]  What?
[00:39:12]  Might be the EU.
[00:39:15]  That might be too crazy even for fucking us, you nutbag!
[00:39:19]  Alex, that doesn't make sense.
[00:39:20]  What?
[00:39:22]  Oh my god.
[00:39:23]  Alex, this is too hard of a swing for 2001.
[00:39:27]  It's too hard of a swing.
[00:39:29]  You're not popular enough for this yet.
[00:39:31]  Not yet, not yet.
[00:39:33]  The fucking abuse of saying if you had called your senators more 9-11 wouldn't have happened.
[00:39:43]  There is a little bit of an undertone of that.
[00:39:46]  There is an undertone of that.
[00:39:47]  If everybody had listened to me harder, this wouldn't have happened.
[00:39:51]  I think that's one reading of that.
[00:39:53]  There's another reading that kind of goes like, we tried our best.
[00:39:56]  I can see that.
[00:39:58]  No matter how many people called, you can have a clear conscience because you did what you could.
[00:40:04]  I can't see that.
[00:40:04]  That's possible, but being generous.
[00:40:07]  I'm going to lean more towards the ungenerous interpretation.
[00:40:11]  I'm being hyper-generous because what's about to happen is unthinkably awful.
[00:40:19]  The pendulum has to swing so far to the generous in order to understand how bad this is.
[00:40:25]  Gotcha.
[00:40:26]  And whatever ill feelings you might have about him for blaming his audience for not calling senators, they are a pittance compared to what's about to happen.
[00:40:37]  So Alex has caught wind of the fact that the people on board had box cutters, the hijackers.
[00:40:46]  Sure, sure, sure, sure.
[00:40:47]  And so Alex's solution is the same solution that he has for everything.
[00:40:50]  Arm somebody.
[00:40:52]  You know, they could solve this whole hijacking thing.
[00:40:55]  Arm the pilots with those exploding air marshal bullets that any of us can buy.
[00:40:59]  It'll go through about an inch or something, but nothing more.
[00:41:04]  And put an armored bulkhead door on those aircraft.
[00:41:07]  And I'm hearing these guys supposedly hijack these planes with paper, with box cutters.
[00:41:14]  You pull a box cutter on me, and folks, I grew up in Dallas, Texas.
[00:41:17]  I've had people pull knives on me.
[00:41:19]  I've taken them away and broken their arm.
[00:41:20]  Don't brag about how I'm Mr. Tough Guy, but Dallas was rough growing up.
[00:41:25]  Dallas was pretty rough.
[00:41:26]  So, you know, obviously, this machismo, this I would fuck this guy up, that's to be expected for Alex.
[00:41:32]  He has a real macho problem.
[00:41:34]  But where this takes him, I think, is unforgivable.
[00:41:39]  The angle that he's taking with this in this next clip.
[00:41:43]  I was disgusted to hear this.
[00:41:46]  I got somebody point a gun at me.
[00:41:47]  I just walked over and grabbed it.
[00:41:49]  Maybe I'm stupid.
[00:41:50]  But we've seen this in schools when people pull guns.
[00:41:53]  Teachers tackle them.
[00:41:54]  You got pilots in a plane full of people.
[00:41:56]  They supposedly had box cutters.
[00:41:58]  How do we know this?
[00:41:59]  One of the former Clinton administration people was on board.
[00:42:02]  Solicitor General's wife was on board that aircraft and called from one of the phones a cell phone.
[00:42:11]  And if you believe that no one on a plane was man enough that those pilots would give control over to a plane because somebody had a box cutter, or you believe that they would fly it in at 500 miles an hour, that thing was moving, both those planes, into that building, I got a bridge I want to sell you.
[00:42:26]  So the story we're getting there is bunk.
[00:42:29]  I can't believe that you had hundreds of sheep on those planes.
[00:42:33]  You pull a box cutter on me, you can't kill me with it!
[00:42:36]  Go ahead and cut me!
[00:42:37]  I'm coming in.
[00:42:39]  Maybe a double-edged stiletto-style dagger might be more deadly if the person was good with a knife, but still, I'm coming at you.
[00:42:45]  And any man would do that.
[00:42:48]  Any woman would do that.
[00:42:49]  So there's a lot of uncertainty in terms of the details of exactly how these hijackings went, so I'm not going to dip too far into that pool, but there's something I think it's important to point out.
[00:42:59]  On the evening of 9-11, Alex is getting on his nationally syndicated radio show and arguing that the people who died on those hijacked planes were cowards and not big strong boys like him.
[00:43:10]  That's completely disgusting.
[00:43:13]  Years, years, years after this.
[00:43:17]  After 9-11.
[00:43:18]  More than a decade.
[00:43:20]  Mark Wahlberg would say the same thing, and still people would be like, that's fucking awful, you monster.
[00:43:26]  And he didn't even say it as bad as Alex did on the day!
[00:43:31]  I'm not really caught up on all of Mark Wahlberg's comments, but my understanding is just that it wouldn't have happened if he was there.
[00:43:38]  Right.
[00:43:39]  And...
[00:43:40]  I don't know why, but somehow that's kind of okay, because that's not impugning the people who are on board as much as it is elevating yourself.
[00:43:48]  Right, right, right.
[00:43:49]  Which people were rightly criticizing him for.
[00:43:52]  Sure.
[00:43:53]  Alex is doing both.
[00:43:54]  Right.
[00:43:55]  Alex is elevating himself and calling everybody else cowards.
[00:43:58]  Right.
[00:43:59]  Yeah.
[00:43:59]  They are not man or woman enough to do what is human nature.
[00:44:04]  Right.
[00:44:04]  On the day.
[00:44:06]  On the day of their...
[00:44:07]  I find this gross.
[00:44:09]  I don't know how to live life with these people alive.
[00:44:15]  Look, I've never been in a hijacking situation, but I think I can imagine some scenarios where you wouldn't think it was a good idea to attack the terrorists who have taken over the plane.
[00:44:23]  For one thing, it's unlikely that you'd think that they were going to crash the plane into a building.
[00:44:28]  A lot of hijackings are done to hold hostages for financial gains or to spread political messages, and I can see thinking that you might survive the ordeal, like they might just land in Cuba or something.
[00:44:39]  I mean, if you have a knowledge of plane history over time, you're like, oh shit, there were actually a lot of hijackings for a while, and most everybody lived!
[00:44:49]  That ended without casualties.
[00:44:50]  No casualties at all, yeah.
[00:44:52]  If it's a heist type of...
[00:44:56]  to make the situation worse by trying to fight back since you could be increasing the chance that the plane crashes.
[00:45:02]  And you or someone else is killed.
[00:45:04]  Yeah.
[00:45:05]  In hindsight...
[00:45:06]  It's easy to see how the people on those planes were essentially doomed, but it seems so unfair and disrespectful to take this kind of a tone, particularly less than 24 hours after the attacks.
[00:45:17]  Alex is so gross.
[00:45:19]  It's that impulse, though, that they all have, the people who are like, oh, this tragedy happens, give somebody a gun there.

=== Expression of Narcissism (01:42) ===

[00:45:25]  You know, give a teacher a gun in school.
[00:45:28]  Like, all of those things.
[00:45:28]  It's because what they're really doing is expressing their fantasy of give me a gun.
[00:45:33]  Let me go back in time in that situation so I can personally be a hero.
[00:45:38]  Right.
[00:45:39]  Because I know everything that would have happened so I can be the winner.
[00:45:42]  There is a bit of that.
[00:45:44]  There's absolute...
[00:45:45]  It is self-aggrandizement.
[00:45:46]  If you are saying give teachers a gun to protect students, you are saying I could protect everybody if I had a gun.
[00:45:53]  That's what you're really saying.
[00:45:55]  And that's what he's saying right there.
[00:45:57]  I can fight off a hijacker.
[00:45:59]  I can fight off a terrorist.
[00:46:00]  I can do it all.
[00:46:01]  Just put me in there.
[00:46:02]  I find it less abhorrent.
[00:46:05]  To say, I could do these things.
[00:46:08]  It's maybe an expression of narcissism.
[00:46:11]  It's maybe wrong.
[00:46:13]  It's definitely not the time for it.
[00:46:15]  The night of 9-11?
[00:46:17]  No.
[00:46:17]  But there is something different about it being presented as...
[00:46:22]  I don't believe this story because any human who isn't a complete pile of shit coward would have taken over the plane from the hijackers.
[00:46:33]  I find that to be a...
[00:46:35]  It's a bridge too far, man.
[00:46:38]  I'm going to play Daria here for you.
[00:46:39]  Maybe he was just thinking that's a hopeful thought.
[00:46:43]  Yeah.
[00:46:43]  Let's get him under oath.
[00:46:45]  Let's see what he says.
[00:46:47]  So Alex takes some calls.
[00:46:48]  And one guy calls in, and Alex wants his take, but unfortunately he does not give the right take.

=== Who Stands to Gain? (03:46) ===

[00:46:55]  And so Alex has to sort of try and...
[00:46:57]  Has to juice his take a little bit.
[00:46:59]  Has to finesse him into the right place.
[00:47:01]  Gotcha.
[00:47:01]  Jim in Virginia, what do you think happened here today?
[00:47:05]  In what respect?
[00:47:07]  Well, your gut level from all the evidence we brought here out on the air before this happened, predicting it, and all the evidence we've been collating, who do you think's behind this?
[00:47:17]  Oh, well.
[00:47:18]  It could be Hussein, but the people that probably had most of the money and could have pulled it off would be probably Iran.
[00:47:28]  Yeah, but who stands to gain from this?
[00:47:32]  That is something we're asking ourselves here, and we really haven't come up with anything.
[00:47:36]  Okay, I'll tell you who stands to gain from it.
[00:47:37]  Well, the New World War.
[00:47:39]  Washington.
[00:47:39]  The markets were already imploding on Friday and Monday.
[00:47:42]  They were already talking about suspending trading.
[00:47:45]  But even more than Washington, there is a fisher in the New World Order reported by our scholars.
[00:47:51]  A fisher?
[00:47:52]  Dr. Coleman, Dr. Kaufman, Dr. Monteith, General Parton.
[00:47:57]  We're talking about the EU, and what are they doing right now?
[00:48:00]  Rolling out the EU currency, delivering it to stores and banks.
[00:48:03]  Yeah, man.
[00:48:04]  He's really pushing the EU did 9-11 on 9-11!
[00:48:08]  And he's pretending that he's getting this analysis from all these people.
[00:48:12]  I mean...
[00:48:13]  He is not getting it.
[00:48:14]  I know for one, he's said multiple times on the show he can't get a hold of Benton.
[00:48:18]  He can't get a hold of him.
[00:48:19]  He's perpetually busy.
[00:48:20]  Yeah, his phone's been busy all day, so...
[00:48:23]  So now he's telling us that this guy has given him information that there's a fissure in the globalist camp.
[00:48:28]  And that has led to the EU...
[00:48:32]  Flying planes into the World Trade Center.
[00:48:34]  I would say, first of all, fuck you.
[00:48:37]  Did they try a letter first?
[00:48:39]  Second, why should I have any faith that your dumb, dumb friends have any idea if the globalists are getting along?
[00:48:46]  I mean, because they...
[00:48:49]  Do they get Us Weekly or Globalist Us?
[00:48:53]  There's a Maxim magazine, but just for globalists.
[00:48:56]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:48:59]  Oh my god.
[00:49:01]  Yeah, I think this is dumb.
[00:49:02]  But it is really funny to see Alex be like, oh, that answer's not good.
[00:49:06]  10 sex tips for the globalist in your life.
[00:49:08]  Gotta try and get this guy to say EU.
[00:49:11]  So yeah, man, he's really into the EU.
[00:49:13]  So we're watching the destruction, ladies and gentlemen.
[00:49:15]  I don't know who did it.
[00:49:17]  Was it Bin Laden acting alone?
[00:49:21]  20% chance.
[00:49:22]  Was it this government?
[00:49:24]  30% chance.
[00:49:26]  Didn't you say it was in 98?
[00:49:27]  Was the EU and their operatives and hired psychopaths or brain control subjects?
[00:49:32]  50% chance.
[00:49:34]  Now that's my analysis, and frankly, I've never been wrong.
[00:49:37]  I wish I was wrong every day.
[00:49:39]  Congratulations, your wish has been granted.
[00:49:41]  Yeah, you are wrong every day.
[00:49:42]  You are so wrong.
[00:49:43]  Every single day.
[00:49:45]  50% chance it was the EU.
[00:49:47]  I do not need a genie to grant that wish.
[00:49:50]  Earlier in the day, 98% chance it was our government.
[00:49:54]  The globalists in our government.
[00:49:56]  Right.
[00:49:56]  So Alex, earlier in the day, had Jim Wright, his buddy, who was in a tower nearby and had witnessed the attack, who may have studied engineering in college.
[00:50:07]  Maybe.
[00:50:07]  He had him on, and it blossomed into a, oh, hey, this is probably a controlled demolition thing.
[00:50:13]  Of course.
[00:50:14]  And so, just for good measure, Alex has him back on.
[00:50:17]  So the EU did the controlled demolition.
[00:50:20]  Yep.
[00:50:20]  Okay.
[00:50:20]  You bet.

=== Reporters Not Telling Full Stories (06:02) ===

[00:50:22]  So, yep.
[00:50:24]  So the EU had people going into the buildings?
[00:50:27]  Mm-hmm.
[00:50:28]  Okay.
[00:50:28]  All right.
[00:50:29]  All right.
[00:50:29]  Okay.
[00:50:29]  I'm sorry.
[00:50:30]  I'm sorry.
[00:50:30]  I don't know why you're confused.
[00:50:31]  I'm sorry.
[00:50:32]  So Jim is back, and Alex has new bomb evidence for him to sign off on.
[00:50:37]  Okay.
[00:50:37]  Now, Jimmy, you have a degree in engineering, and without me even prompting you, your wife called me here at home, and we have the interview of that post on the website right now, and said, you know, Alex, Jimmy was there.
[00:50:53]  And then she gave us her cell phone number.
[00:50:56]  We got in touch with you as you were literally walking amongst the charred bodies that were piling up.
[00:51:03]  You, on your own accord, said that it was the most beautifully done demolition job you've ever seen.
[00:51:09]  Now I'm hearing it on local and national radio, and we've heard reports that this morning there was a reporter out front as one building was smoking and the other one was smoking, that as the first one collapsed, there was an explosion, a huge explosion at the bottom.
[00:51:22]  The reporter jumped for cover.
[00:51:25]  The structural engineer who designed the building is in the Chicago Tribune, just out on InfoWars.com, and the viewers, the listeners would like to see that, saying there's no way this could happen.
[00:51:37]  He designed it to take the 777 hit.
[00:51:41]  I mean, that plane wasn't out at the time, but it would take, you know, bigger than any plane that's been designed at this time.
[00:51:46]  It might even chop the top of the building off, but those things are very strong buildings.
[00:51:51]  Instead, you see a perfect falling, and then as the top is disturbed, some sloughing off.
[00:51:58]  What were your comments there as a degreed person in structural engineering?
[00:52:02]  Well, both myself and actually one of my colleagues who's also in construction engineering, we watched it, and both of our comments was that the building fell so perfectly.
[00:52:17]  vertically.
[00:52:19]  There was no leaning.
[00:52:21]  It just came straight down, which is a very hard thing to accomplish with a structural steel building because the steel tends to bend.
[00:52:31]  So we listened to the morning show, and at no point during those interviews was Jim walking through burning corpses that were piling up.
[00:52:38]  That's a disgusting, grotesque, and exploitative image that Alex is painting, and he should be ashamed that that was his instinct, to do something like that.
[00:52:47]  But in this clip, you can see the larger game that Alex is playing.
[00:52:51]  He's got his structural engineering expert back on so he can lay out this new bombing evidence for him and hopefully get a more full-throated endorsement of the conspiracy ideas that Alex is pushing.
[00:53:02]  You can tell so clearly how Alex is listing this stuff off for Jim as if to explain for him what he wants Jim to say in response.
[00:53:11]  Alex is essentially trying to exploit his family friend here and he's doing it using intentional misrepresentations of sources and meaningless Yeah.
[00:53:22]  a local radio guy say about a local news piece that he allegedly saw yeah it It's ridiculous.
[00:53:30]  Yeah, I mean, the way he's talking to him is like, this is the type of coaching you do off-air.
[00:53:36]  So on-air, it sounds natural when they actually say the shit that you want them to.
[00:53:40]  Or it's like in an interrogation room.
[00:53:42]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:53:43]  No, if I was in the room with him, I'd be like, objection, leading the witness, your honor.
[00:53:47]  Like, this is very obvious.
[00:53:49]  Yeah.
[00:53:49]  Jim should be saying, do I need a lawyer?
[00:53:50]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:53:52]  Do I need a lawyer?
[00:53:53]  No, you're not under arrest.
[00:53:54]  You're good.
[00:53:54]  You're good.
[00:53:56]  So, I mentioned that there was a little bit of a repeated thing about the idea that bodies were burning and flaming and people were jumping on fire and stuff in the morning show.
[00:54:09]  And he's still on that tip.
[00:54:12]  And I think that there's something admirable, knowing nothing else about Jim Wright, in that he does try and moderate this a little bit.
[00:54:21]  Jimmy, the bodies, the burning bodies, the people coming out of the buildings, what did you see?
[00:54:26]  Well, it was a little bit of an exaggeration to say.
[00:54:30]  I walked among them.
[00:54:31]  I went out the opposite side of our building, but we did see bodies.
[00:54:36]  He is at least trying to not play along with the parts of Alex's shit that is clearly exploitative.
[00:54:44]  And this kind of feeling of like, well, maybe this guy isn't so bad.
[00:54:51]  A part of it comes from this clip.
[00:54:53]  Anything else you'd like to add, Jim Wright?
[00:54:57]  Just pray and hope for the people that are in that building still trying to save people or the people that are trapped.
[00:55:05]  Nothing could be more frightening.
[00:55:07]  All right, Jimmy Wright, I really appreciate you joining us.
[00:55:11]  So yeah, that's the first time that that kind of concern has been voiced.
[00:55:15]  Yep.
[00:55:15]  And Alex's response to it was, okay, fine, moving on, dickwad.
[00:55:19]  Way to give me nothing.
[00:55:20]  Well, but look at what's being said.
[00:55:24]  Jim is pointing out that some people are still trapped.
[00:55:29]  That's an awareness that Alex's listeners wouldn't have.
[00:55:32]  Yep.
[00:55:33]  Up till this point.
[00:55:34]  He's not reported on anything like that, on the circumstances on the ground, the human tragedy that's happening.
[00:55:42]  And it's because it's not important to him.
[00:55:44]  No, and it's not his movie.
[00:55:46]  It's not his movie of the person walking through dead bodies and the flames and the wreckage and there are no survivors.
[00:55:52]  Because if there are no survivors, you don't have to worry about helping people.
[00:55:56]  Right, you just have to worry about Klaus Schwab, who Alex won't know about for another 20 years.
[00:56:00]  You got it.
[00:56:01]  Yep.
[00:56:02]  But is the big bad guy in the world.
[00:56:03]  If you talk about survivors, you have to start saving and helping people.
[00:56:07]  Well, or at least you have to explain why you're not concerned.
[00:56:09]  Yeah, or why you don't give a fuck.

=== Talking Halbig: Notable Missteps (15:23) ===

[00:56:11]  Yeah.
[00:56:11]  So, Alex takes more calls, and he gets a guy who brings up an idea that Alex will take to quite a bit in the future, and that is...
[00:56:20]  The Super EU.
[00:56:21]  No.
[00:56:22]  The planes were remote-controlled.
[00:56:24]  Ah, yes.
[00:56:25]  And I'll tell you what, this whole thing looked too complicated.
[00:56:29]  And I just wonder what the chances are that, you know, the technology exists.
[00:56:34]  Those aircraft operate totally on electronics that the aircraft weren't fixed.
[00:56:40]  I wonder if we will ever find that out.
[00:56:42]  Well, you know, it's funny you bring that up, Jim or John.
[00:56:47]  That's okay.
[00:56:48]  Did you see on my website the Fox television piece about the second episode of The Lone Gunman this year?
[00:56:57]  You know, the X-File type show?
[00:56:59]  I missed that, Alex.
[00:57:01]  I'm sorry.
[00:57:02]  A secret government agency takes control of an airplane, my computer, and tries to crash it into the world.
[00:57:10]  Trade Center.
[00:57:12]  Because just like Governor Keating's brother writing that book, Final Jihad, three years before the Oklahoma City bombing, where he mentions Mr. McVeigh and the Alford P. Federal Building, they like to brag, don't they?
[00:57:30]  Yes, the technology's there, the satellites are in place.
[00:57:33]  So look, the Lone Gunman episode doesn't prove shit, but it's the kind of evidence that Alex really loves.
[00:57:39]  Oh, it's the best.
[00:57:39]  Because it blows people's minds.
[00:57:41]  What?
[00:57:42]  Right.
[00:57:43]  And that book by Keating, he could have easily put in the McVeigh and those details after the fact.
[00:57:50]  Yeah, 100%.
[00:57:51]  Three years prior.
[00:57:52]  That's all Oklahoma City conspiracy lore nonsense.
[00:57:55]  It's very important to pretend it is.
[00:57:57]  It's a load of shit.
[00:57:58]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:57:59]  So Alex has got basically nothing, but it's exciting that nothing.
[00:58:03]  Yeah.
[00:58:04]  These are exciting pieces of nothing.
[00:58:06]  It is a little bit of proving 9-11 was fake by...
[00:58:12]  Pointing to a Mandela effect of the Berenstain Bears, you know?
[00:58:16]  And you're like, see?
[00:58:17]  I gotta be honest, I'm convinced.
[00:58:18]  Yeah, I mean, well, if it's spelled differently then, then I guess you're right.
[00:58:23]  Yep.
[00:58:23]  So now this next clip blew my mind.
[00:58:26]  Okay.
[00:58:27]  I could not have been prepared for this.
[00:58:29]  Okay.
[00:58:30]  I told you we'd have wide open phones, and we do have wide open phones.
[00:58:33]  We're about to go back to John in Kingsville, Clayton in Missouri, Cindy in West Virginia, Mary in Oklahoma, Daryl in...
[00:58:41]  Texas and others.
[00:58:43]  But coming up in about 5-10 minutes, we have an unexpected guest that's going to be joining us.
[00:58:48]  We already had an eyewitness on.
[00:58:49]  It was in the World Financial Center right next door to the World Trade Center towers.
[00:58:54]  This unexpected guest is my friend, Joe Rogan.
[00:58:58]  What?
[00:59:00]  Joe Rogan.
[00:59:01]  Don't.
[00:59:01]  No.
[00:59:02]  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:59:04]  No, no, no, no, no, Dan.
[00:59:06]  Dan?
[00:59:08]  Do not tell me.
[00:59:09]  That Joe Rogan was on Alex Jones' show on the night of 9-11.
[00:59:15]  Dan, there are four guys, okay?
[00:59:18]  We need more guys.
[00:59:20]  We need more.
[00:59:21]  We love people because they keep fucking showing up everywhere!
[00:59:24]  It's so bizarre to me, though.
[00:59:25]  You know, you have Rogan showing up on...
[00:59:28]  But I guess it's kind of different because Richard Belzer was on the day of the Boston bombing.
[00:59:33]  Right.
[00:59:33]  But that was just a coincidence.
[00:59:34]  He was there and then he decided to stick around because there was a bombing happening.
[00:59:38]  Yeah, and he was having fun.
[00:59:39]  He was the Bells.
[00:59:39]  Whereas this is Rogan coming on because there was a bombing and he wants to talk about it.
[00:59:45]  Why isn't this known?
[00:59:47]  Why isn't this known?
[00:59:49]  Why isn't he talking about it?
[00:59:51]  Whenever he talks about his friendship with that, he's like, the night of 9-11.
[00:59:55]  I feel like that's a notable moment.
[00:59:57]  That is a remarkable thing that I would tell people.
[01:00:01]  You always remember where you were on the evening of 9-11.
[01:00:05]  I was on InfoWars.
[01:00:07]  How do you not say that?
[01:00:09]  That's weird.
[01:00:10]  Why is this?
[01:00:11]  I wasn't ready for that.
[01:00:12]  He's not on, he can't be on.
[01:00:14]  Yeah.
[01:00:14]  I was expecting literally any, I was like ready for Nugent.
[01:00:18]  I was ready for anybody.
[01:00:20]  But I can't believe that on 9-11, Joe fucking Rogan.
[01:00:23]  2001 Rogan, too.
[01:00:24]  Fucking news radio Rogan.
[01:00:27]  No, this was a few years after that had already been canceled.
[01:00:29]  This is Fear Factor Rogan.
[01:00:30]  This is Fear Factor Rogan.
[01:00:31]  You're right, you're right.
[01:00:31]  Yeah, this is yelling at people, Rogan.
[01:00:34]  I don't know the, I don't know, no, you made this up.
[01:00:39]  I refuse.
[01:00:40]  I believe you have gone back in time and forced these two men together to justify our life.
[01:00:45]  If I could manifest things, I would not do that.
[01:00:49]  Please don't.
[01:00:51]  So Alex has basically convinced himself of his own conspiracies.
[01:00:55]  Sure.
[01:00:55]  And before I let you go, Alex, I wanted to say to the listeners, get on the phone.
[01:01:00]  The first thing I did today was I called Senator Utterson and Senator Graham.
[01:01:05]  And voiced my concerns about what happened today.
[01:01:07]  They need to hear from us right now more than ever.
[01:01:10]  And are you letting them know that you smell a rat?
[01:01:12]  Yes, sir, I sure did.
[01:01:13]  I let them know what I thought about the building imploding also.
[01:01:18]  Obviously imploding.
[01:01:19]  Well, you just heard a structural engineer and the designers in the Chicago Tribune saying that couldn't happen.
[01:01:26]  It sure did.
[01:01:29]  Yeah, because of shape charges at the columns at the base.
[01:01:32]  So none of that's real.
[01:01:34]  I mean, he had a friend of his who knows a little bit about engineering.
[01:01:37]  At best, an amateur engineer.
[01:01:40]  Which is not a thing.
[01:01:41]  Sure.
[01:01:42]  I mean, unless he's a model train guy.
[01:01:45]  Maybe.
[01:01:45]  Ah, he could be.
[01:01:46]  I don't know what Jim's got going on in his basement.
[01:01:48]  Probably a building.
[01:01:49]  Maybe.
[01:01:50]  So, yeah, you got that.
[01:01:52]  Congratulations.
[01:01:52]  That's not much to go on.
[01:01:54]  Not a lot.
[01:01:54]  And then you have a lie about a Chicago Tribune article.
[01:01:57]  You got a big lie, yeah.
[01:01:58]  Great.
[01:01:59]  Well, it's confirmed.
[01:02:01]  There's nothing here.
[01:02:03]  There's literally nothing.
[01:02:05]  But it's loud nothing.
[01:02:07]  True.
[01:02:07]  And it's interesting nothing, like the lone gunman.
[01:02:10]  It's fun.
[01:02:11]  The thought, the impulse that a human being would have to think after hours after two planes took down the World Trade Center.
[01:02:23]  And you think 20,000 plus people are dead.
[01:02:26]  You call Lindsey Graham.
[01:02:29]  To tell him that there were charges on the bottom of the building.
[01:02:33]  Because I misread or I didn't read a Chicago Tribune article that Alex is lying to me about.
[01:02:40]  Right, right, right, right.
[01:02:41]  And then Alex says, they need that now more than ever.
[01:02:45]  Yes, right now.
[01:02:48]  That is the first thing that our Congress people...
[01:02:51]  If not now, when?
[01:02:51]  Exactly.
[01:02:52]  They'll never do anything about it if it weren't for this guy.
[01:02:56]  So Alex is just misusing sources and shit, but it's also intentional.
[01:03:02]  It's very clearly intentional.
[01:03:03]  Two large passenger planes, medium-sized, slammed into both the South and North Tower of the World Trade Center today.
[01:03:11]  We had a structural engineer on, the designer...
[01:03:16]  in the Chicago Tribune that that is impossible what happened.
[01:03:19]  Only shaped charges at the bottom could cause that.
[01:03:22]  That's what he's saying?
[01:03:23]  Kevin Booth's brother-in-law, who I know very well, who is an investment guy that works in the financial tower, said that explosions obviously did go off.
[01:03:34]  He was an eyewitness several hundred yards away from it.
[01:03:37]  The buildings came down.
[01:03:38]  We had the Pentagon being attacked.
[01:03:40]  You simply would not act like this if you were a sincere person acting with honest motives.
[01:03:46]  If your goal was to deliver the facts or even the facts as you see them, you would not mess around and fake your sources like this.
[01:03:54]  This isn't sloppiness.
[01:03:55]  This can only really be the product of intentional deception.
[01:03:59]  There are two giant manipulations that Alex is trying to pull off in that clip.
[01:04:03]  The first is the way he discusses the Chicago Tribune article.
[01:04:07]  The engineers who designed the World Trade Center didn't say that this was impossible, but now Alex is saying that and adding in language that makes it sound like this source included them saying that only shaped charges could do this.
[01:04:19]  He includes that as an extension of his sentence where he's relaying the alleged comments from this engineer, so anyone listening would obviously think this was Alex continuing to convey what was in this Tribune article, when in reality it's just Alex making shit up.
[01:04:35]  Yeah, if you read it, then there would be quotation marks around a certain spot, and then it would be a comma, and then his editorializing would continue.
[01:04:43]  But if you're listening to it, you don't know where those scare quotes are, and there you go.
[01:04:47]  This isn't something he's doing on accident.
[01:04:49]  It's to make his shit talk appear like it's reporting that's based on something.
[01:04:54]  The second thing that Alex is doing is the way he's characterizing his interview with Jim Wright.
[01:05:00]  You can see in that 40-second clip, he mentions talking to Jim twice, but he's trying to make it seem like these mentions are about two different people that he's interviewed.
[01:05:09]  One mention is of a family friend who was a first-hand witness to the attack, and the other is a structural engineer.
[01:05:15]  If you were just trying to recap for anyone tuning in, you wouldn't present things this way.
[01:05:21]  He mentions a structural engineer that he had on, then lies about the Tribune article, then talks about his friend who's an investment banker and first-hand witness.
[01:05:31]  of Jim's interview are separated because Alex is hoping to disconnect these ideas in his listener's mind in order to make the narrative stick easier.
[01:05:40]  Right.
[01:05:40]  The first hand witness, Jim Wright, who's an investment banker and friend of Alex's, should be something interesting that happened on the show but ultimately it should be forgotten.
[01:05:48]  All Alex wants the audience to remember is that there was a seemingly very knowledgeable structural engineer whose name doesn't really matter who was on Alex's show on the day of 9-11 who said that the building had to have had explore Yeah.
[01:06:04]  Alex does this kind of shit all the time.
[01:06:06]  In his deposition for the Texas Sandy Hook case, there was a particularly good illustration of this same behavior.
[01:06:12]  Mr. Jones, before we break, I asked you about your statement about what state police officers were threatened.
[01:06:19]  And you told me Mr. Halbig and maybe somebody else.
[01:06:23]  Correct?
[01:06:24]  Mm-hmm.
[01:06:25]  Okay.
[01:06:27]  School investigation experts were threatened.
[01:06:29]  Who was that?
[01:06:32]  It wasn't just Halbig.
[01:06:33]  I remember there was some other groups and people asking questions and some other professors other than Fetzer.
[01:06:40]  I wasn't really going off what Fetzer said.
[01:06:42]  Okay.
[01:06:43]  And then you said that in addition to those two groups, that some school safety experts had been threatened.
[01:06:49]  Who was that?
[01:06:51]  I think I was talking about Halbig.
[01:06:52]  Right.
[01:06:52]  I mean, all of these are talking about Halbig, right?
[01:06:57]  No.
[01:06:58]  This is one of Alex's very common tactics where he'll take one piece of information, obscure it, and then multiply it into a bunch of different places and pieces of information in order to create the appearance that he has so much more evidence than he actually does.
[01:07:12]  In that clip from his deposition, he knew that if he just said that Wolfgang Halbig had been threatened, it would seem like a very specific incident that relates to one person who was also harassing victims' family members.
[01:07:24]  But through Alex's rhetorical magic, you now have the specter of state police, school investigation experts, and school safety experts that had been threatened, and this creates the appearance of a giant coordinated effort to intimidate the people who would be in a position to challenge the official narrative of what happened at Sandy Hook.
[01:07:41]  This is an effective tool to use because if you aren't paying close attention or if you haven't listened to the episode where various things are alleged to have happened, you may just passively accept that Alex has a ton of details that he's working off of when that's definitely not the case.
[01:07:56]  You assume that he has this structural engineer, professional, and a friend who's a first-hand witness.
[01:08:03]  We're the same person, and he's not a structural engineer.
[01:08:06]  It helps that you're listening to it on the radio.
[01:08:08]  Otherwise, you would have to...
[01:08:09]  Like, if you were seeing this in real life, his friend would be wearing a nice suit, investment bankery, and then he's like, ah, the structural engineer, and his friend would go behind the curtain, put a little cap on and a mustache, and be like, ah, I'm the structural engineer friend!
[01:08:23]  Yeah, on the radio, you get away with that a lot easier.
[01:08:25]  Right, right.
[01:08:26]  And so, like, in the same way that Alex wants this to appear, like, there's a number of things, not just...
[01:08:33]  Wolfgang Halbig whining.
[01:08:34]  He wants that appearance because the actual reality sucks and it doesn't work for him.
[01:08:39]  The actual reality of his interview with Jim Wright also doesn't work.
[01:08:43]  And so he has to obscure it and create multiple tendrils that he can use for different things out of it.
[01:08:50]  And that's something that he does a bit.
[01:08:52]  And that's one of the things that's actually really difficult to trace down.
[01:08:57]  It's one of the tactics that he uses that it's...
[01:09:02]  It requires having listened to a ton of his shit in order to be like, that's where this is coming from.
[01:09:08]  And we're kind of fortunate that this is kind of self-contained to some extent.
[01:09:14]  He's referencing this thing that happened earlier in the day and we listened to that episode.
[01:09:18]  Right.
[01:09:19]  And so that helps make that track down easier.
[01:09:23]  But he does this a lot with things that are like, well, I'll never be able to know what the fuck he's talking about.
[01:09:28]  No, this is one of the things that I think is probably the most common and maybe useful tool of media literacy at all is just understanding what people are saying when they say experts.
[01:09:41]  You know, like you read any number of different things about any number of different things and they're quoting experts and the people who are there quoting...
[01:09:49]  Don't trust...
[01:09:52]  Quote, experts.
[01:09:53]  Ever.
[01:09:54]  On anything.
[01:09:55]  Well, conditionally trust.
[01:09:56]  Conditionally trust, though.
[01:09:57]  But not whenever Alex is saying it.
[01:10:00]  So, expert in fix-em-ups at a news radio station.
[01:10:06]  Fix-em-ups at a news radio station.
[01:10:08]  Tech guy.
[01:10:09]  They did do the space episode one time.
[01:10:11]  Well, he did destroy everybody.
[01:10:13]  Joe Gorelli.
[01:10:14]  Yep.
[01:10:17]  Oh, come on.
[01:10:18]  The line you're supposed to...
[01:10:20]  Your last name's Gorelli?
[01:10:22]  Joe Rogan is on, and Alex gives him quite an intro.
[01:10:26]  Here to give us the Hollywood perspective is my good buddy who knows all about the globalists, Joe Rogan.
[01:10:32]  He, of course, was one of the top guys on the popular syndicated show, News Radio, and now the host of Fear Factor, with all the stunts, number one rated show on television.
[01:10:43]  And I was honored with Kevin Booth, making a film with Joe, told us he wanted to come on.
[01:10:49]  I am just really excited about having Joe Rogan on.
[01:10:52]  Joe, it's good to talk to you.
[01:10:53]  Hey, Alex, what's going on, man?
[01:10:54]  I don't want to sound like a dick, because I love news radio, and I think Rogan was great in his role, but you're kidding yourself if you say he was one of the top guys on that show.
[01:11:03]  Yeah.
[01:11:03]  It was an ensemble cast, but you're high if you think that he was in the varsity level of that ensemble.
[01:11:08]  I mean, fifth!
[01:11:10]  Fifth!
[01:11:10]  Maybe!
[01:11:11]  I actually sat down and thought about this for quite a while.
[01:11:14]  Yeah.
[01:11:14]  I think he's, at best, sixth banana.
[01:11:17]  Yeah, you think so?

=== Candy Alexander's Underuse (12:58) ===

[01:11:18]  Yeah.
[01:11:18]  Let's see.
[01:11:19]  Dave Foley and Phil Hartman are tied for first.
[01:11:23]  Sure.
[01:11:23]  Maura Tierney is right below that.
[01:11:25]  100%.
[01:11:26]  She's amazing.
[01:11:27]  Yeah.
[01:11:27]  And in the, like...
[01:11:30]  The clump of the top of the ensemble.
[01:11:33]  Then there's the people who have storylines that are pretty consistently featured.
[01:11:40]  So you have Vicky Lewis, you have Andy Dick, and you have Jimmy James.
[01:11:44]  Yeah, Stephen Root.
[01:11:46]  And then underneath that you have Candy Alexander and Joe Rogan.
[01:11:52]  Because Candy Alexander was fucking brutally underused.
[01:11:56]  She was fantastic.
[01:11:57]  Yeah, I agree.
[01:11:58]  And you can make an argument that Rogan may have also been somewhat underused.
[01:12:01]  No, I think Rogan was used exactly the right amount, because any more and he would be exactly like Rogan, which is annoying and really bothersome to me.
[01:12:10]  It's very possible.
[01:12:12]  Yeah, an argument can be made that he was accurately used.
[01:12:15]  I would say so!
[01:12:17]  But, um...
[01:12:18]  Yeah, man, Steven Root is...
[01:12:20]  Sneak...
[01:12:21]  Watching news radio then, I would not have thought, one, Steven Root is going to look better 30 years later.
[01:12:28]  Sure.
[01:12:28]  And two, he's going to have the career that maybe I envy the most out of anybody ever.
[01:12:33]  He's a solid actor.
[01:12:35]  And he's amazing.
[01:12:35]  Yeah.
[01:12:36]  So yeah, sixth banana probably.
[01:12:38]  Although, I mean, it's a memorable moment, certainly.
[01:12:40]  Oh, sure.
[01:12:40]  Two Vulcain is one of the big...
[01:12:42]  All time.
[01:12:43]  Yeah.
[01:12:46]  Not many beyond that.
[01:12:49]  Well, there was that, he's part of that, we're just talking about the shaft.
[01:12:53]  That is true.
[01:12:54]  I can dig it.
[01:12:55]  Yeah, yeah, that one was good.
[01:12:56]  He was a part of that exchange.
[01:12:57]  That was a great morning meeting.
[01:12:58]  His timing was good.
[01:12:58]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:13:00]  Me want to be big, strong refrigerator man, but refrigerator, so messy.
[01:13:06]  Yeah.
[01:13:06]  So very messy.
[01:13:08]  He had some wins, but come on, guys.
[01:13:12]  Come on.
[01:13:12]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:13:13]  No, no, no, no, no.
[01:13:16]  I mean, Phil Hartman, if you even breathe without saying Phil Hartman and NewsRadio in the same sentence, I'm bothersome.
[01:13:24]  If you said Andy Dick was one of the top guys on NewsRadio...
[01:13:28]  I might fight you.
[01:13:29]  No, I would agree with that.
[01:13:30]  I disagree.
[01:13:31]  I disagree.
[01:13:32]  Matthew is featured constantly.
[01:13:34]  I understand.
[01:13:35]  There's always stuff going on with Matthew.
[01:13:37]  Well, yes, but anybody could...
[01:13:39]  Well, I will admit...
[01:13:41]  The way he fell was pretty spectacular.
[01:13:43]  Yes.
[01:13:44]  He knew how to fall.
[01:13:45]  Him and Vicky Lewis.
[01:13:47]  Yeah.
[01:13:47]  Like, they were the zaniness on the show.
[01:13:51]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:13:51]  Totally.
[01:13:51]  And so, like, they were featured a lot because you need that.
[01:13:54]  Right.
[01:13:54]  That dynamic.
[01:13:55]  The ball.
[01:13:55]  You need the chaos.
[01:13:56]  The ball episode where they throw...
[01:13:59]  Yeah.
[01:13:59]  That one.
[01:14:00]  Yeah.
[01:14:01]  The complaint box.
[01:14:02]  Oh, God.
[01:14:02]  The complaint box is the greatest episode of TV.
[01:14:05]  That and the door.
[01:14:07]  The cane, of course.
[01:14:08]  Absolutely.
[01:14:09]  Or the smoking one.
[01:14:10]  This one displeases me.
[01:14:11]  This one I'll keep.
[01:14:13]  This one I'll keep.
[01:14:15]  Oh, man.
[01:14:16]  Anyway, enough news radio talk, because we've got to talk to Rogan.
[01:14:19]  Yeah.
[01:14:20]  So, Alex, you know, he started out the morning show wanting people to know that he predicted this.
[01:14:28]  He started out the evening show talking about how he predicted this.
[01:14:32]  Now he's going to start off this interview with making Rogan admit that Alex predicted this.
[01:14:39]  Joe, you know I was predicting this, telling you all about it.
[01:14:43]  Well, you know, you do predict that the government is doing these things, but I mean, you don't believe that there's people in other countries that hate us?
[01:14:51]  Oh, I know there are, but I know this.
[01:14:54]  MSNBC, Bin Laden comes home to roost.
[01:14:56]  His CIA ties are only the beginning of the story, MSNBC.
[01:15:00]  Well, I mean, he supposedly had CIA ties when he was working for the CIA, but that doesn't mean that he didn't, like, get angry when he was working with the CIA and decided that that's when he decided to hate America.
[01:15:10]  Well, now they're saying it could be Iraq.
[01:15:12]  To deal with the CIA is pretty ridiculous.
[01:15:14]  No, I hear you.
[01:15:14]  Now they're saying it could be Iraq.
[01:15:16]  They're saying it could be anybody.
[01:15:19]  It could be Iran.
[01:15:20]  My question is, why didn't we take Baghdad in 1991?
[01:15:24]  So, if I had a ton more time to prepare this episode, I would have made a supercut of every time Alex reads that headline about Bin Laden coming home to roost.
[01:15:32]  Right.
[01:15:32]  It's been probably a hundred times he's used it, and he's never actually discussed the content of the article or how, you know, he glosses over about how it's about the 1993 bombing.
[01:15:43]  Right, right, right.
[01:15:44]  He's got the headline, and optically, that's as good as any evidence, so whatever.
[01:15:48]  Alex throws that headline at Joe, who has the most common-sense reply that Bin Laden Bin Laden may have been working with the CIA in the past, but to think that he still is would be ridiculous.
[01:15:58]  Alex should disagree with this, but he can't really support his own argument, so he just gives up on that point to Joe, who essentially wins.
[01:16:07]  And then he moves on to his next talking point about how he should have killed Saddam and taken over Baghdad in the last Gulf War.
[01:16:14]  What's going on is that Alex has a few conversation paths as options, and he went down one with Joe, which turned out to be a dead end.
[01:16:21]  To distract the audience from realizing that it is a dead end and Alex has nothing to say about this article that he's constantly bringing up, he pivots to a completely different subject.
[01:16:31]  This is disorienting if you're taking the conversation seriously and think there's a coherent point going on here.
[01:16:38]  Alex is saying that he's been predicting this and that the government...
[01:16:41]  uses these kinds of events to accrue power, which Rogan agrees with.
[01:16:45]  At this point in the day, there's already some talk about bin Laden being responsible going on, so Alex trots out this article from 1998 to demonstrate that he's correct and that even if bin Laden did it, it was still the government.
[01:16:57]  Joe points out that this doesn't prove that bin Laden is working with the CIA now, which is at the crux of what Alex is suggesting by bringing up that article, and then Alex completely crumbles and starts talking about Saddam.
[01:17:09]  This is not a normal or rational conversation or interview path, because it's neither of these things.
[01:17:14]  It's an attempt to get Joe to mirror Alex's talking points, which failed in its first attempt, so Alex tried another road.
[01:17:21]  Right.
[01:17:22]  That's what's going on.
[01:17:23]  Yeah, it is interesting to me that he didn't immediately bring up that the EU did it, because the EU is the most likely...
[01:17:32]  It's 50% over both Iraq...
[01:17:36]  And the government.
[01:17:37]  Well, Joe Rogan is no people at the grocery store.
[01:17:39]  So why wouldn't Alex be like, hey man, I'm hearing...
[01:17:44]  Germany did it.
[01:17:46]  What are you thinking?
[01:17:46]  The EU, they're just launching this currency.
[01:17:50]  Germany, they've been coming for us in the past, right?
[01:17:52]  Why not?
[01:17:54]  I think that Alex maybe wants to ease into it a little bit.
[01:17:58]  You don't want to throw that at Rogan right off the bat.
[01:18:01]  You don't want to blow his mind.
[01:18:02]  Maybe he knows that it sounds crazy to even Joe Rogan.
[01:18:05]  I don't know.
[01:18:06]  Maybe he thinks that Rogan will...
[01:18:08]  Bite down on that cyanide capsule if he hears that it's the EU.
[01:18:12]  Are you kidding me?
[01:18:13]  I can't deal with this reality.
[01:18:15]  It is funny because the way Alex talks makes you feel like he's going down in this hedge maze, you know, where he's turning down this corner and he's like, well, nothing there, so I'm going to go back around that.
[01:18:26]  But if you listen to the totality, it's more like...
[01:18:29]  We're in the hedge maze.
[01:18:31]  And he's just creating bullshit as you go along, and you're trying to get to a conversation, and there's nowhere to go.
[01:18:37]  It's just a maze.
[01:18:38]  Yep.
[01:18:39]  That's about it.
[01:18:40]  Yeah.
[01:18:40]  So, Alex wants the Hollywood response to what's going on.
[01:18:46]  And I'm going to apologize in advance.
[01:18:48]  There's a slur in here.
[01:18:50]  Our slur coming up.
[01:18:52]  Oh, boy.
[01:18:53]  And here's what Joe sees.
[01:18:55]  What are your friends out in Hollywood saying about all this?
[01:18:58]  You know, people are freaking out.
[01:18:59]  I mean, there's a bunch of people that take the reproach.
[01:19:02]  It's like, hey, let's bomb everybody.
[01:19:05]  There's always going to be that.
[01:19:06]  That was Alex.
[01:19:06]  He said Newcomb.
[01:19:07]  The racist approach.
[01:19:09]  People assume that everybody of Middle Eastern descent is responsible for this, and you hear a lot of racial slurs, and you hear it everywhere from all sorts of different people.
[01:19:17]  Yeah, I've been hearing camel jockeys and all those terms on mainstream radio.
[01:19:22]  Yeah, no, absolutely.
[01:19:24]  I just heard it on your show.
[01:19:27]  And also, I have not included it, but there have been some callers who have said things that border on definite slurs.
[01:19:36]  I would say that they are pejorative terms.
[01:19:39]  That's a good word.
[01:19:41]  Pejorative is a great euphemism for a fuck-off word.
[01:19:46]  So, Alex, if you really look at the way that Joe is criticizing...
[01:19:52]  The media.
[01:19:53]  Yeah, he's criticizing Alex.
[01:19:55]  Yeah, Alex falls into that.
[01:19:56]  He's saying it's Alex.
[01:19:56]  Perhaps more so even than a large percentage of the media that I watch.
[01:20:01]  Yeah.
[01:20:02]  I don't...
[01:20:03]  I mean, there was not that much...
[01:20:05]  I mean, there was some saber rattling.
[01:20:07]  But not as much as you might have expected.
[01:20:07]  Right.
[01:20:10]  I think we need to nuke him!
[01:20:11]  That's what Alex said!
[01:20:13]  Immediately.
[01:20:13]  Top of a nuke on him!
[01:20:14]  Yeah.
[01:20:15]  Jesus!
[01:20:15]  There was less of that, except for that Secretary of State.
[01:20:18]  That guy's nuts.
[01:20:19]  Yeah.
[01:20:19]  Gotta kill someone.
[01:20:20]  Gotta kill somebody.
[01:20:21]  Yeah, that was an outlier.
[01:20:24]  What a psycho.
[01:20:26]  So you were like, hey, why won't he say it's the EU?
[01:20:30]  Yeah.
[01:20:30]  And if you just waited a little while, we would have gotten there.
[01:20:33]  All right, all right.
[01:20:34]  And your theory might have been correct.
[01:20:36]  Joe, what about the EU run by the Germans?
[01:20:38]  They're rolling out their new currency.
[01:20:40]  Stock markets are already crashing globally.
[01:20:42]  The EU was up against the dollar.
[01:20:44]  You know, everything is about currency speculation.
[01:20:46]  A lot of the evidence I'm getting from my sources say this could be an EU move, and look how they attacked our very financial center to destroy the dollar.
[01:20:54]  Wait a minute.
[01:20:55]  Let me get this straight.
[01:20:55]  You think that this was Europe attacking America to destroy our economy?
[01:20:59]  Yeah.
[01:21:00]  I know that in Davos, Switzerland, eight months ago, they announced that they were going to be preeminent.
[01:21:04]  The dollar was going down.
[01:21:05]  That's what he thinks.
[01:21:06]  And there's been a global fight going on.
[01:21:11]  I think, you know, until we have any evidence of who did this, anything else is just irresponsible speculation.
[01:21:16]  Joe, my point is we have to ask who is behind this.
[01:21:20]  You talk about irresponsible speculation.
[01:21:22]  Look at the mainstream media.
[01:21:23]  They're out there saying a hundred different people did it.
[01:21:25]  I think that Joe, his response is alright.
[01:21:29]  You know, because there is a, what are you talking about?
[01:21:33]  He clearly doesn't believe him.
[01:21:35]  Right.
[01:21:35]  He clearly doesn't agree.
[01:21:36]  Absolutely not.
[01:21:36]  And he's being polite in the pushback in terms of like, this is irresponsible speculation, basically.
[01:21:41]  Right, right, right, right.
[01:21:42]  And I think that that's, you know, there's something to tip the old cap.
[01:21:46]  Sure, sure.
[01:21:47]  I mean, listen, we're already, the problems that need to be solved.
[01:21:54]  Happen way before we get to Joe giving anybody a lesson in ethics and journalism.
[01:21:59]  Okay, so I'm not going to complain about that.
[01:22:02]  Well, here's something that I was surprised about.
[01:22:05]  I mean, first of all, I was surprised that Joe was here.
[01:22:07]  And then second, I was surprised that as I was listening to this, I think that Joe Rogan, at this point, is who he thinks he is now.
[01:22:18]  Yeah.
[01:22:18]  In 2001, Joe Rogan is...
[01:22:21]  His self-perception in 2022.
[01:22:23]  Right.
[01:22:24]  Because he can push back on Alex.
[01:22:26]  Yeah.
[01:22:26]  And this doesn't go well.
[01:22:28]  Ooh.
[01:22:28]  This interview goes bad.
[01:22:30]  Ooh.
[01:22:31]  That's nice.
[01:22:32]  On 9-11.
[01:22:33]  That's, boy, all the jokes that I won't make.
[01:22:39]  It's really surreal to know what we're about to discuss and recognize that this is the evening of 9-11.
[01:22:48]  When we were doing our last episode...
[01:22:51]  Sometimes scenarios are so big, so vast, that the universe is...
[01:22:59]  You think about the pale blue dot.
[01:23:01]  Carl Sagan talking about the pale blue dot.
[01:23:04]  Carl Sagan would be like, fucking no way is Joe Rogan showing up on 9-11.
[01:23:09]  What the...
[01:23:10]  What the fuck are we talking about?
[01:23:11]  Blow this shit up!
[01:23:13]  Nuke the dot!
[01:23:14]  That's what Carl Sagan is saying about this appearance.
[01:23:16]  That's what I'm telling everybody right now.
[01:23:19]  Yeah, it's like if Alex was doing his show and Pearl Harbor happened and he has Milton Berle on to tell him, hey, calm down.
[01:23:30]  Stop.
[01:23:32]  No, I think it was South America.
[01:23:34]  What is wrong with you?
[01:23:35]  Yeah.
[01:23:37]  Absurd.
[01:23:38]  So, Alex, you know, he's not like the commies.
[01:23:42]  The commies want to kill people.
[01:23:43]  And here, again, Joe pushes back on some stuff Alex is throwing out.
[01:23:48]  It looks like they did shoot down that plane outside Pittsburgh.
[01:23:50]  Well, yeah, well, I mean, I can't say I'm glad they did it, but, you know, if it costs fewer lives, then I guess it was the right thing to do it.
[01:23:58]  Well, Joe, I'm all up front.
[01:24:00]  I mean, the communists have killed 200 million people, but the colleges tell you they're cool.

=== Drugs and Yes Men (03:41) ===

[01:24:04]  So I care about human life, but...
[01:24:06]  You know, I don't think colleges tell you communists are cool.
[01:24:10]  I think they tell you that the idea of socialism is cool because socialism is what, you know, a lot of, you know, educational people want.
[01:24:17]  They want us to share wealth and share, you know, I think it's ridiculous, but I think it's the ideal that they support not communists itself and not, you know, ruthless communist dictatorships and what they do to their people.
[01:24:28]  Well, they called him Uncle Joe Stalin until the 1950s in the newspapers.
[01:24:33]  Yeah, well.
[01:24:34]  Yeah, well.
[01:24:37]  I've heard that from that.
[01:24:39]  Yeah, well, I have heard from my own mouth many a time.
[01:24:42]  Yeah, well.
[01:24:43]  All right.
[01:24:44]  I guess if you're hinging your conspiracy and your rebuttal to my point is they called him Uncle Joe.
[01:24:51]  Well, okay.
[01:24:54]  You're on solid ground, baby.
[01:24:56]  Moving on then.
[01:24:56]  Yeah.
[01:24:57]  Yep.
[01:24:57]  I think that Joe appears to be far more capable of critical thinking.
[01:25:02]  He appears to be far more able to hold his own.
[01:25:06]  He has a centered, grounded position of a thought.
[01:25:11]  Yep.
[01:25:11]  He's not going to be bullied by Alex into being like, whoa, maybe it is the EU.
[01:25:16]  Yeah.
[01:25:17]  Holy shit.
[01:25:18]  Don't get old.
[01:25:18]  I think that's the lesson we're learning here.
[01:25:20]  Don't get old.
[01:25:21]  Everybody who gets old winds up sucking later on.
[01:25:23]  No, no.
[01:25:23]  I know he liked weed, I'm pretty sure, even back then.
[01:25:26]  Yeah, of course.
[01:25:27]  I would assume.
[01:25:28]  No, no, no, no.
[01:25:29]  I'm not going to say that doing drugs for 30 years has messed his brain up.
[01:25:33]  No, no, no.
[01:25:33]  I'm not saying that either.
[01:25:34]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:25:35]  I'm saying that maybe one of the drugs he did, did it.
[01:25:39]  Oh.
[01:25:41]  We'll never know which.
[01:25:42]  You don't think so?
[01:25:43]  Well, I mean, how would you judge?
[01:25:45]  Well, I mean, we don't know if he licked Toad with Tyson.
[01:25:49]  Again, it's not the same as licking Toad.
[01:25:51]  I'm sorry.
[01:25:52]  I'm still going to use the colloquial term.
[01:25:54]  Fair enough.
[01:25:55]  Because you can't say doing Toad, and I don't want to say snorting Toad or smoking Toad.
[01:25:59]  I feel like Toad is not a culprit here.
[01:26:01]  Okay.
[01:26:02]  You want to say DMT?
[01:26:03]  No, I don't want to say that either.
[01:26:05]  I feel like he's got to have done a ton of like...
[01:26:08]  Other weird things that no one's ever heard of.
[01:26:10]  Right.
[01:26:11]  Like chemicals.
[01:26:12]  Right.
[01:26:12]  Experimental chemicals and stuff.
[01:26:14]  Here's what I'm going to say.
[01:26:15]  I'm going to say it has nothing to do with drugs.
[01:26:17]  And I'm going to say the number one drug that would cause something like this is surrounding yourself with yes men and people like Alex Jones who will consistently reinforce your position regardless of whatever it is that you are saying, thus leading you down to a lazy thought pattern because you never have to try.
[01:26:33]  That's true.
[01:26:33]  That could be a part of it.
[01:26:34]  Also, cultivating a fan base full of people who don't challenge you in terms of staying on some kind of a critical path, I think, is probably corrosive.
[01:26:48]  If he had just done drugs and not become famous, I think he would be a better person.
[01:26:55]  If people still made him own up to hosting the man show.
[01:27:00]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:27:01]  Or being on InfoWars on 9-11!
[01:27:04]  Boy, that's weird.
[01:27:06]  So yeah, Rogan is not playing ball with Alex, really.
[01:27:11]  And so Alex can bring up something that Joe can respond to and be like, well, Joe's response can just be like, well, I don't know about that.
[01:27:20]  They're not into communist dictators.
[01:27:22]  They're just some of these socialist ideas.
[01:27:26]  Medicare.
[01:27:26]  Right, right, right.
[01:27:27]  Social Security.
[01:27:28]  I do like he's like, which I think are fucking stupid, but whatever, those smart people, those educational people.

=== Alex's Byzantine Plan (06:26) ===

[01:27:33]  I think he thinks Social Security is probably fine, but he's talking about redistribution and whatever.
[01:27:39]  But whatever that is, Alex is realizing that this is not going to work.
[01:27:44]  So I'm going to have to blindside him.
[01:27:46]  And so he tries to with the Northwood stuff.
[01:27:49]  Gotcha.
[01:27:49]  I had James Bamford, former 2020 executive on.
[01:27:52]  Different network from you.
[01:27:53]  You're NBC.
[01:27:54]  But it says, new book on NSA shows light on secrets, U.S. terror plan called Cuban Invasion Pretext by Scott Chain and Tom Bowman.
[01:28:02]  It says here, this is the Baltimore Sun, also New York Times.
[01:28:07]  They wanted to, quote, casualty list, that means numbers of dead, in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of indignation.
[01:28:14]  They wanted to blow up passenger airliners, attack the Marines at Guantanamo, using Army dressed up as Cubans as a pretext to invade Cuba.
[01:28:22]  Now, Kennedy said no.
[01:28:23]  Six months later, his head was sloppy Joe's.
[01:28:27]  Joe, how do you respond to that?
[01:28:28]  I know you're a web guy.
[01:28:29]  You can read the stories and hear the clips.
[01:28:31]  Well, you know, I've heard any million number of different theories on why and how Kennedy was assassinated and by who.
[01:28:40]  I suspect one of them out there is true.
[01:28:44]  I suspect the government probably had something to do with it.
[01:28:46]  But as far as that, I mean...
[01:28:49]  But Joe, not even the Kennedy thing.
[01:28:50]  It's confirmed NSA documents.
[01:28:52]  The Joint Chiefs of Staff signed on to it.
[01:28:55]  So Alex has already realized that Joe is clearly not in favor of declaring that the globalists or the EU did 9-11, and Alex has no argument to make that they did, so he's in a tough position.
[01:29:05]  He knows that Joe isn't a pushover in 2001 and that he has his own celebrity and he isn't 100% bought into Alex's shit like the other guests Alex has had on 9-11.
[01:29:16]  That's tough because if he starts asking too many questions about why Alex believes the things he's saying or what proof he has to base his claims on, it might become clear that Alex is just making shit up.
[01:29:27]  So Alex goes on offense.
[01:29:30]  This clip is him putting Joe in a completely unfair and unwinnable situation.
[01:29:34]  Joe has expressed that he doesn't think the government necessarily did this and questions Alex's idea about a possible motive.
[01:29:41]  So instead of arguing that point, Alex throws Operation Northwoods at him.
[01:29:45]  Joe doesn't know about this document.
[01:29:47]  He's never read it.
[01:29:48]  So this conversation has to happen entirely on Alex's terms or not at all.
[01:29:53]  Joe has to accept Alex's framing and details or say, I haven't read that, so I can't have this conversation.
[01:30:00]  The latter option is more responsible, but also isn't super productive in a radio interview setting.
[01:30:05]  Plus, if you know Alex, you know he's not going to respect that.
[01:30:08]  He's just going to have the conversation anyway.
[01:30:10]  Alex is forcing Joe to engage with something he knows nothing about, which supposedly proves that the government had plans approved to do a 9-11 back in the 60s.
[01:30:19]  So from an optics standpoint, Alex is making it Joe's responsibility to debunk this document before they can even really begin to talk about the actual matter at hand, which is impossible.
[01:30:29]  Yeah, sometimes whenever moving the goalposts isn't going to work for you, what you have to do is switch to playing highlight.
[01:30:37]  Right.
[01:30:37]  So you're like, ah, football's really hard.
[01:30:39]  I'm not going to do that shit.
[01:30:41]  Highly it is, buddy.
[01:30:42]  Or that old Thomas Jefferson quote.
[01:30:44]  Whenever they start figuring out the answers, that's when I change the questions.
[01:30:48]  Ah!
[01:30:48]  That was a great Thomas Jefferson quote.
[01:30:50]  Yep.
[01:30:50]  This is, what Alex is doing, is in essence the same thing he does in terms of using OKC as cover for the 9-11 bomb theories.
[01:30:59]  It's an attempt to force someone to complete some other task before you get to the real issue that you're supposed to be talking about.
[01:31:06]  It's like Alex is an NPC in a video game sending you on a fetch quest in the middle of the main mission, but it's a poorly designed game, so you kind of know that once you finish that side quest, they're just going to send you on another.
[01:31:17]  It's going to be a long time until you get to the main mission.
[01:31:20]  It's going to take a lot of patience to have any actual conversation with Alex.
[01:31:24]  It's just going to keep throwing out, oh no, I need an amulet if we're going to go into this cave or whatever the fuck.
[01:31:30]  Right.
[01:31:30]  It's annoying.
[01:31:31]  You want to know what my Kennedy conspiracy theory is?
[01:31:34]  Please.
[01:31:35]  My conspiracy theory is this.
[01:31:36]  Wait, wait, wait.
[01:31:37]  Let me...
[01:31:38]  You?
[01:31:39]  No.
[01:31:39]  No, no, no.
[01:31:39]  It's even worse.
[01:31:40]  Oh, boy.
[01:31:41]  It's the government that is disseminating conspiracy theories because they don't want people to know how easy it is to just murder the president.
[01:31:50]  Like, honestly, if you look back at American history, there have been at least four should-have-been-murdered presidents that weren't murdered.
[01:31:57]  That's true.
[01:31:57]  You know, you've got Andrew Jackson twice.
[01:32:00]  Two guns jammed in his face.
[01:32:02]  Should have had his head blown off.
[01:32:04]  Teddy Roosevelt.
[01:32:05]  Teddy Roosevelt, gone.
[01:32:06]  Ronald Reagan, out of here.
[01:32:08]  Yeah, those were not sophisticated plans.
[01:32:11]  No, you do not need a sophisticated plan.
[01:32:14]  You can just shoot them.
[01:32:15]  They're just dudes.
[01:32:16]  I'm not saying...
[01:32:17]  I'm not just...
[01:32:18]  Obviously...
[01:32:19]  Obviously not.
[01:32:21]  Obviously not.
[01:32:21]  Saying that.
[01:32:22]  Obviously not.
[01:32:23]  But it is not a complicated process.
[01:32:26]  But you can hear it in Joe's voice, too.
[01:32:29]  He's like...
[01:32:30]  There are so many things.
[01:32:31]  There's so many moving parts.
[01:32:32]  There's got to be a complicated plan behind it.
[01:32:35]  There's got to be somebody with money behind it.
[01:32:36]  It's got to be that Ocean's Eleven heist.
[01:32:38]  And it can really just be a dude who's like...
[01:32:40]  None of those other ones were.
[01:32:42]  Yeah.
[01:32:43]  And for what it's worth, I mean, even the...
[01:32:46]  I mean, there was some planning and conspiracy involved in the Lincoln assassination.
[01:32:50]  Yeah, of course.
[01:32:51]  Not like, oh, we got to get Russia involved.
[01:32:54]  Yeah.
[01:32:55]  That is interesting.
[01:32:56]  Yeah.
[01:32:57]  I mean, I don't believe your premise.
[01:32:59]  No, I'm not saying the government is actually doing that.
[01:33:02]  But it is interesting to think about how there's an expectation that that has to be the most Byzantine thing.
[01:33:07]  Yeah, no, everybody thinks that it should be really, really hard to assassinate the president of South.
[01:33:11]  But if you look back at assassinations that worked and didn't work, all you really need is the chutzpah to try, and maybe the chips will fall where they may.
[01:33:19]  Well, I'm going to need you to go on Rogan while we're in Austin.
[01:33:23]  And ask him about this period.
[01:33:26]  I think that's a good one.
[01:33:27]  So, look.
[01:33:28]  Alex can't handle this interview.
[01:33:32]  Alex has some thoughts about Hollywood.
[01:33:35]  And unfortunately, Joe is in Hollywood.
[01:33:37]  What does this do for our image-oriented country?

=== Right Now What Is Working (06:23) ===

[01:33:40]  What actions might Hollywood take to help prompt things up?
[01:33:44]  I don't think Hollywood ever should be in a position to take any actions whatsoever.
[01:33:48]  Hollywood is about entertainment and making money.
[01:33:51]  You know, Hollywood trying to prop things up I think is pretty ridiculous.
[01:33:54]  But they're kind of doing that.
[01:33:55]  You know, they're taking a lot of federal money on some of these Army scripts and stuff.
[01:34:00]  Are they really?
[01:34:01]  Oh, yeah.
[01:34:02]  Movies like Pearl Harbor?
[01:34:04]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:34:05]  They take Army money in what way?
[01:34:07]  All the free equipment, and then the Army tells them how to write the script and what to do and what to take out?
[01:34:12]  Well, you know what?
[01:34:12]  I highly doubt the Army tells them what to do and what to take out.
[01:34:15]  I think they do probably tell them that they can't have the Army or the military viewed in a poor way, like displayed in a poor way.
[01:34:25]  But I highly doubt they give them money.
[01:34:27]  For them, it's also good publicity, though.
[01:34:30]  You have to realize, I mean, for recruitment...
[01:34:32]  To watch a movie like Pearl Harbor where the kids join the Navy and become heroes, you know, for an impressionable young kid, now that might be just the push that they need to get them into the armed services.
[01:34:42]  Yeah, it created a glut of people wanting to fly F-14s when Tom Cruise made Top Gun.
[01:34:47]  Yeah, no, absolutely.
[01:34:48]  And the military is well aware of that.
[01:34:49]  Yeah, so Alex is arguing against his own point.
[01:34:52]  Yeah, I'm confused as to why Alex thinks that this is a conversation he's having.
[01:34:56]  Because he fucking crumbled.
[01:34:57]  He tried to make a claim.
[01:34:59]  Rogan was like, nah, that doesn't track.
[01:35:01]  I don't think that.
[01:35:02]  No way.
[01:35:03]  Okay, next try.
[01:35:04]  What else do I got in my...
[01:35:06]  He's just pulling bags.
[01:35:08]  He's got a bag of candies.
[01:35:10]  And he's just throwing them at Joe Rogan.
[01:35:12]  Like, does this one taste good?
[01:35:13]  Does this one taste good?
[01:35:14]  Let's see if the media tastes good.
[01:35:16]  Okay.
[01:35:16]  And what the media's there for...
[01:35:18]  It's a business to make money.
[01:35:20]  And as soon as it falters in any way, shape, or form, they will adjust it and correct it and put it back in a position to make money.
[01:35:27]  Whether that means hiring attractive people to work as news anchors or sprucing up the soundtrack or doing whatever the hell they have to do, they're there to get ratings.
[01:35:36]  Now, look at what's going on with shark attacks.
[01:35:39]  There's less shark attacks this year than any other year before, but they've locked onto it as a point of focus, and now they talk about it constantly.
[01:35:47]  And then suddenly you see HBO re-airing Jaws every night.
[01:35:51]  Right.
[01:35:51]  Well, it's all about what is working.
[01:35:54]  Right now what is working is shark attacks.
[01:35:56]  Today what is working is terrorist attacks.
[01:35:59]  And whatever is working...
[01:36:00]  That is working today.
[01:36:02]  That's what the media is.
[01:36:03]  Did you just say...
[01:36:05]  The idea that people have that the media is controlled by some secret government agencies and it's all just propaganda to ensure that people get conformed to the police state, that's ridiculous.
[01:36:17]  I know all the people behind these shows.
[01:36:19]  They don't care about anything but funny.
[01:36:21]  They want ratings.
[01:36:22]  They want 18 to 49. That's what they want.
[01:36:24]  People who are 18 years old to 49. And whatever gets them, that's what will be on.
[01:36:28]  Yeah, but Joe, you do Mad TV and News Radio and host Fairfax, the number one show.
[01:36:33]  And the Man Show.
[01:36:33]  A lot of those media anchors may not say it to your face, but they're counsel on fine relations members.
[01:36:38]  They go off to Bilderberg Group meetings that are now...
[01:36:42]  Well, we know Ted Turner gave a billion bucks to the U.N. I mean, come on.
[01:36:53]  Look, Alex is not being able to handle what are basically simple rebuttals to his points.
[01:37:01]  This is bad.
[01:37:02]  Yeah, this is an embarrassing show.
[01:37:05]  This is a man going like...
[01:37:07]  Eh, come on.
[01:37:08]  That doesn't make that much sense.
[01:37:09]  And Alex going, eh, you're right.
[01:37:11]  Well, what's interesting is that Alex can't be too mean to Joe because he is the host of...
[01:37:15]  Fear Factor.
[01:37:16]  Yeah, one of the top rated shows in the country.
[01:37:18]  For real.
[01:37:19]  Yeah.
[01:37:19]  It was huge.
[01:37:21]  It's weird to think back on that.
[01:37:23]  Yeah, it was winning its time slot.
[01:37:25]  Oh, yeah.
[01:37:26]  People loved watching him yell at people so they would eat bugs.
[01:37:29]  Everybody who was ever making fun of the Pet Rock fad is like, man...
[01:37:34]  Fear Factor is way worse than that shit.
[01:37:36]  I mean, it didn't last long.
[01:37:37]  No, that's true.
[01:37:38]  The ratings crumbled pretty fast.
[01:37:39]  But, yeah, it was a phenomenon.
[01:37:41]  But, yeah, I think that there's something really interesting going on here, and that is that because Alex can't really fight with him all that much without risking the friendship of a really famous guy.
[01:37:52]  Right.
[01:37:53]  More important than gold.
[01:37:55]  Yeah, he has to, like...
[01:37:57]  Sure.
[01:38:01]  pushes back in the most like obvious way yeah alex has no rebuttals for this anything is his arguments are flimsy and paper thin he's making up these people who are controlling things and going to Bilderberg yeah and all this stuff and because of that He just has to give up on all these points.
[01:38:21]  He can't keep arguing without revealing that he doesn't have a second step to this argument.
[01:38:27]  Or even really a first step based on...
[01:38:30]  He doesn't have feet.
[01:38:31]  He doesn't have enough feet to step with.
[01:38:34]  And it's really depressing.
[01:38:36]  I mean, first of all, seeing Alex this incompetent is not great.
[01:38:42]  But then seeing Joe this able to navigate this territory and obviously he didn't...
[01:38:53]  points to what Alex was saying.
[01:38:55]  And show a little frustration while he's doing it.
[01:38:57]  Sure.
[01:38:57]  Yeah.
[01:38:58]  Not let Alex just get away with whatever nonsense he's saying.
[01:39:02]  Right.
[01:39:02]  And I think maybe part of that dynamic is that he's on Alex's show.
[01:39:07]  If he's on his own show, he wants Alex to be...
[01:39:11]  Yeah, wind him up.
[01:39:12]  Get going.
[01:39:13]  Get crazier.
[01:39:13]  Do more of what you want to do.
[01:39:15]  I'm here for entertainment.
[01:39:17]  He doesn't really benefit from Alex's ratings being better.
[01:39:20]  Right, right, right, right, right.
[01:39:22]  Oh, man.
[01:39:24]  I just don't know how you live...
[01:39:27]  The day we're talking about was 9-11, correct?
[01:39:32]  Yeah.
[01:39:33]  And this is happening on that day.
[01:39:35]  Yep.
[01:39:37]  I wasn't planning to remind you of that for a little bit longer.
[01:39:40]  Terrorist attacks are working today.
[01:39:44]  Yeah.
[01:39:44]  Is such a thing to say.
[01:39:47]  Mm-hmm.
[01:39:47]  On 9-11.

=== Why Everyone Talks About Terrorists (13:52) ===

[01:39:49]  It's really weird because it's also in the context of that, like, why is everyone talking about shark attacks?
[01:39:54]  Sure, yeah.
[01:39:54]  Because it's what's working.
[01:39:56]  It's a media creation.
[01:39:57]  It's in the zeitgeist or whatever.
[01:39:58]  Yeah.
[01:39:59]  Sure.
[01:40:00]  Wow.
[01:40:01]  It's a little different when there was...
[01:40:03]  Tiny bit.
[01:40:04]  Well, I mean, I feel like you'd have to be really bizarrely disconnected from how humans work in order to be like, why is everyone talking about terrorist attacks today?
[01:40:15]  Yeah, that would have to be insane.
[01:40:17]  That would be an insane thing to do.
[01:40:18]  Oh, well, terrorist attacks are what's driving money now.
[01:40:21]  I understand being critical of people talking about sharks.
[01:40:26]  Sure.
[01:40:26]  I agree.
[01:40:27]  We kill more sharks than they kill us, and they're better.
[01:40:30]  This one's different.
[01:40:31]  Very different.
[01:40:32]  So, Alex, really, if he knew what he was doing at all, he would just bail on talking about anything that has to do with the media or the entertainment industry, but he can't.
[01:40:43]  Joe, just for you, because we're all about the documentation, I'm going to post stories about the Justice Department writing scripts for Law& Order.
[01:40:50]  Really?
[01:40:50]  Dun-dun.
[01:40:51]  Yes.
[01:40:51]  And where did this come from?
[01:40:53]  Oh, ABC, NBC, MSN...
[01:40:55]  ABC and NBC have admitted that the Justice Department writes scripts for Law& Order?
[01:40:59]  Yeah, so you're out there...
[01:41:00]  Why Law& Order?
[01:41:01]  Do what?
[01:41:02]  Why Law and Order?
[01:41:04]  A bunch of those shows.
[01:41:05]  It really has nothing to do with keeping people in line or, you know, the agenda of the world order.
[01:41:09]  Oh, yeah, showing you phony court proceedings where the judge is the boss.
[01:41:12]  It violates the Constitution.
[01:41:14]  Look, I didn't write it.
[01:41:16]  I mean, they did.
[01:41:16]  Okay, well, I would be more than happy to read it, but obviously I can't comment on it until I read it.
[01:41:21]  You know, I do know people who run television shows.
[01:41:24]  I know a lot of people who run a lot of the top-rated shows.
[01:41:27]  I know the guy who invented, who wants to marry a multimillionaire and all these other crazy shows that are on television.
[01:41:33]  And despite what people think of the motives of all these people putting these shows on for, you know, larger, grander, eviler reasons.
[01:41:44]  Yeah.
[01:41:46]  Why would ABC have anything to say about Law& Order being how it was written?
[01:41:51]  That wasn't on ABC.
[01:41:53]  Wow.
[01:41:53]  It's an NBC show.
[01:41:54]  You know, ABC is trying to, they're trying to take Law and Order down a peg.
[01:41:59]  You know, ABC's got a scoop on their NBC rivals about how they're letting the government write their shows.
[01:42:05]  Was W thinking about making Dick Wolf the Attorney General?
[01:42:09]  I mean, what he's, what Rogan is not allowing for is the possibility that the government was writing these scripts because W had a particular thing that he liked Law and Order to do.
[01:42:19]  You know?
[01:42:21]  Listen, we find out now every day more of what the Queen is doing extrajudicially.
[01:42:27]  She's influencing laws and shit.
[01:42:29]  They're getting away with murdering animals on their shit, doing all that.
[01:42:33]  Why couldn't W be like, hey, listen, I want the next storyline for Law& Order to be.
[01:42:37]  I think that's a reasonable thought.
[01:42:39]  So you're thinking it's the DOJ is making requests to tailor entertainment for the president as opposed to it being a nefarious conspiracy.
[01:42:49]  Nope, I'm just 100% a man going like, I wish I had control over law and order.
[01:42:54]  They're ripping the wrong stories from the headlines.
[01:42:58]  Why not?
[01:42:59]  I've found more entertaining headlines for them to cover.
[01:43:03]  The government has used...
[01:43:05]  More power for less important shit.
[01:43:07]  You're not wrong.
[01:43:09]  But yeah, Joe's not buying that shit.
[01:43:11]  And this, again, Alex, he's drawn to this topic that he should avoid it.
[01:43:18]  Just stop it.
[01:43:20]  That's literally all they do.
[01:43:21]  And then they bring them to the people who run the networks who I've also met.
[01:43:24]  None of these people are evil.
[01:43:25]  None of these people are working for the government.
[01:43:27]  They're all hustlers.
[01:43:28]  They're all putting things in front of you that they think you'll buy, you know?
[01:43:32]  It's a guy walking on the street, "Hey man, you want to buy a watch?" That's what the network executive is.
[01:43:36]  It's just in a grander scale.
[01:43:39]  It's sitcoms, it's variety shows, it's reality shows, whatever it is, it's just there to get your attention and to get your money.
[01:43:46]  It's just there, so you'll tune in and buy a Toyota truck or, you know, a Tide detergent.
[01:43:51]  That's what it's there for.
[01:43:52]  That's all it's there for.
[01:43:53]  So all this crazy notion that the government is, you know, using us like puppets through the media is ridiculous.
[01:43:59]  I'm deep, deep, deep inside the media, okay?
[01:44:01]  No, just because you did that.
[01:44:03]  I know exactly what goes on.
[01:44:03]  I know who these people are.
[01:44:04]  I'm the host of Fear Factor.
[01:44:05]  I'm going to start emailing you the stories.
[01:44:07]  Okay, but I'm telling you.
[01:44:08]  I'm friends with Weinstein.
[01:44:10]  These stories are very suspect.
[01:44:11]  I don't necessarily believe them.
[01:44:13]  I think they sound like a ridiculous notion.
[01:44:15]  Okay.
[01:44:15]  I don't think people would do that.
[01:44:16]  Henry Kissinger and others, and I have the news stories here, were on TV tonight.
[01:44:21]  Saying we need to give up our liberties for security.
[01:44:24]  Do you agree that we should give up our liberties?
[01:44:25]  Are we on TV tonight?
[01:44:28]  It's a little bit...
[01:44:29]  That's a jarring...
[01:44:30]  Well, it's because Alex needed to retreat to safer territory.
[01:44:33]  This was going very poorly for him because Joe's not buying it.
[01:44:37]  He has expertise and he's in those worlds.
[01:44:41]  He understands...
[01:44:41]  And he's being self-deprecating even with like...
[01:44:44]  I know that that's my job.
[01:44:46]  That's why I have a show.
[01:44:48]  It's interesting.
[01:44:50]  For people, they want to watch me yell at people, and then it helps sell products.
[01:44:55]  He's not disillusioned about this.
[01:44:57]  It's just sort of a crass, materialist explanation of what TV is.
[01:45:03]  I hosted clubs for years.
[01:45:05]  My job is to sell drinks, not to be funny.
[01:45:08]  That's the deal.
[01:45:10]  And so, Alex can't handle that.
[01:45:14]  He doesn't have enough...
[01:45:16]  And so you transition over to safer territory, which is like Kissinger.
[01:45:21]  Kissinger's there!
[01:45:22]  I saw Kissinger's interview on CNN, and he didn't say that.
[01:45:25]  No.
[01:45:26]  Again, we're in this situation where I can point that out, and Alex can say, like, oh, it must have been on another channel, and we're back where we started.
[01:45:32]  Sure.
[01:45:32]  It doesn't really matter, though, because this was just something Alex threw out to change the subject.
[01:45:37]  Right.
[01:45:38]  Alex realized he was losing this government controls the media stuff, and, you know, whatever.
[01:45:44]  Yeah.
[01:45:45]  Alex really isn't used to his quote-unquote experts using their expertise to combat him.
[01:45:53]  Right.
[01:45:53]  He doesn't appreciate it.
[01:45:54]  He's like, no, no, no, you're not supposed to actually be an expert.
[01:45:56]  I'm just calling you one, okay?
[01:45:58]  You're the host of Fear Factor.
[01:45:59]  I've been in these rooms.
[01:46:01]  I've met these executives.
[01:46:03]  No, that doesn't sound true.
[01:46:05]  I've negotiated.
[01:46:05]  Nah, you're just the host of Fear Factor.
[01:46:07]  Okay.
[01:46:08]  So, this is fun.
[01:46:11]  Joe, Joe, if Hollywood isn't about manipulating perception, why are they so outrageously against the Second Amendment and peddling misinformation?
[01:46:19]  What do you mean?
[01:46:21]  Good question.
[01:46:22]  I mean, come on, all of them.
[01:46:23]  They're just up there, just out of control, 24-7, turning your guns.
[01:46:28]  I'm telling you, Hollywood is not about misinformation.
[01:46:29]  Hollywood is about tricking you.
[01:46:31]  Hollywood is about misinformation when it comes to relationships, like how rosy and perfect they are for Father Knows Best people.
[01:46:37]  Do you know why?
[01:46:38]  Because when people come home from a day that sucks, when they work a hard day's work and they come home and they have a beer, they don't want to see depressing things.
[01:46:44]  Fair enough.
[01:46:45]  Yeah.
[01:46:46]  All right.
[01:46:46]  Yeah, I love that moment for Alex, though.
[01:46:50]  I love that.
[01:46:51]  When he's like, the media's against the Second Amendment.
[01:46:53]  What are you talking about?
[01:46:54]  He has no examples.
[01:46:56]  He's just like, you know how they're all day out of control.
[01:47:00]  Out of control with their Second Amendment hatred.
[01:47:03]  Not a single example.
[01:47:04]  Every time I look at the TV, I feel like they don't like the Second Amendment.
[01:47:08]  Right.
[01:47:09]  Whenever there isn't...
[01:47:10]  Two guns on screen.
[01:47:12]  Yeah.
[01:47:12]  I was watching Married with Children and they solved a problem in less than 30 minutes via some sort of communication as opposed to a gunshot.
[01:47:22]  Boo.
[01:47:22]  So Alex is losing everything here.
[01:47:24]  Yeah.
[01:47:25]  Joe is dancing circles around him with minimal effort.
[01:47:28]  I mean, boy.
[01:47:30]  Really don't have to work that hard.
[01:47:32]  No.
[01:47:32]  And so Alex really needs to basically discredit Joe by giving him an ulterior motive.
[01:47:38]  Sure.
[01:47:39]  All I can say to all of this is, I know you're a smart guy.
[01:47:42]  I know you know about the New World Order.
[01:47:43]  You're doing very well in this whole system, and I'm not even saying, you know, your show is bad compared to all the rest, and it's your First Amendment right, people's right to watch it or turn it off.
[01:47:52]  So I don't get into all of that stuff, but you don't have to defend this system that is trying to trample our rights.
[01:47:57]  So there is this idea that he's within the system.
[01:48:00]  I understand that you have to say what you have to say to keep your corporate overlords happy.
[01:48:06]  Yeah, you're within this globalist Hollywood system, and so that's why you're not agreeing with me 100%.
[01:48:12]  That's really not fair.
[01:48:14]  Why even have the conversation then?
[01:48:17]  Like, what's the point?
[01:48:18]  Right.
[01:48:18]  What makes the Roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote's relationship interesting is that the Roadrunner is very, very fast.
[01:48:26]  The coyote's attempts to attack it are scaled correctly.
[01:48:32]  And that's their overcomplication is what makes the problem.
[01:48:35]  You wouldn't watch the show if it was the wily coyote versus a turtle.
[01:48:39]  And the turtle wasn't moving very fast and the wily coyote still blew himself up.
[01:48:44]  You could just step over.
[01:48:46]  And grab the turtle.
[01:48:47]  You could.
[01:48:48]  Yeah.
[01:48:48]  You don't have to paint a whole extra road on a brick wall, you know?
[01:48:53]  You can just...
[01:48:53]  I would say that that dynamic is part of why this isn't electric.
[01:48:57]  Yeah.
[01:48:57]  I would agree.
[01:48:58]  Radio.
[01:48:59]  But it's fun for me in a way that a lot of these interviews aren't.
[01:49:04]  Right.
[01:49:04]  And that's because you see Joe...
[01:49:06]  Being his highest self, sort of.
[01:49:09]  I don't actually know if I can back that up.
[01:49:11]  There may be a better version of him somewhere.
[01:49:13]  Give me examples of the media.
[01:49:16]  This is a pretty good version of him for the people that we've seen.
[01:49:20]  If you're going to represent yourself on Infowars, this is the best way to do it.
[01:49:25]  And if you're going to represent yourself as Joe Rogan, this is a good representation of him compared to every other version of him we've seen.
[01:49:32]  Right.
[01:49:33]  He's very, very Joe Rogan-y as opposed to We're walking a very slippery slope with trying to protect ourselves and trying to make sure that the government doesn't take personal freedoms away from us while we're protecting ourselves.
[01:49:53]  Joe, I agree with you, but let's take Santa Clarita.
[01:49:55]  Two weeks ago, four East German APCs go in.
[01:49:58]  I have the photos and the video from the L.A. Times.
[01:50:00]  Sorry, what?
[01:50:01]  They're firing M60 machine guns into the wrong houses.
[01:50:04]  I mean, that is not America.
[01:50:06]  Guys in black uniforms and black APCs.
[01:50:09]  That's what you just said, right?
[01:50:10]  You said it was Germany?
[01:50:12]  They were driving East German APCs.
[01:50:15]  And this happened in Germany?
[01:50:17]  No, this happened just north of L.A. You heard about it.
[01:50:20]  No, I didn't.
[01:50:21]  The guy's house burning down, the APCs, the shootout.
[01:50:25]  Well, I mean, what are you saying?
[01:50:27]  You're saying that this guy has military equipment?
[01:50:29]  No, the police.
[01:50:30]  It's L.A. Times.
[01:50:32]  Four black...
[01:50:33]  East German APCs that used to oppress the East German people were bought a few years ago.
[01:50:37]  They're in the neighborhood shooting up the wrong houses, going nuts.
[01:50:40]  It turns out they shot their own officers and then tried to frame this guy they killed with it.
[01:50:45]  That's in the L.A. Times.
[01:50:46]  Well, I didn't read that.
[01:50:47]  I don't know what that story's about, but what does that have to do with, you know, the government taking away our liberties by blowing up gigantic buildings and killing possibly tens of thousands?
[01:50:56]  Well, come back to Austin, Joe, and when you do, I'll take you downtown and show you lines of black APCs and face-scanning cameras.
[01:51:02]  I'm not totally sure what this has to do with the larger topic or what that response even was, but it makes sense that Joe's confused by Alex throwing this new story into the mix because it's a total nonstop.
[01:51:12]  Alex is lying about that situation that occurred in Santa Clarita.
[01:51:17]  Police arrived to search the home of a guy named James Allen Beck, who was a felon that the authorities had learned from neighbors who were worried that he was stockpiling weapons and ammo, which he can't do.
[01:51:28]  And there were some reports that he was going around impersonating a police officer.
[01:51:32]  That's not good.
[01:51:33]  From the LA Times, quote, Deputy Hagop, also nicknamed Jake Kurdesian, was among scores of officers who flocked to the scene.
[01:51:43]  He was shot and killed within minutes of arriving.
[01:51:46]  Alex says to Joe that the police shot their own officer and then framed Beck, which was reported in the LA Times, which is an absolute lie.
[01:51:53]  And it's a necessary lie, because if Alex discussed the situation in its real form, it wouldn't be so black and white, and it would become much harder for Alex to use for his talking points.
[01:52:03]  Beck opened fire on the officers and killed this sheriff's deputy, which led to the police returning fire.
[01:52:09]  They were a bit unprepared for this turn of events and shot a number of rounds into the adjoining house, though no one was killed.
[01:52:16]  The people whose house was shot into, they sued and they were awarded $200,000 eventually, so they got some restitution.
[01:52:22]  Through it all, Beck continued shooting probably thousands of rounds.
[01:52:27]  He had a huge cache of weapons, so he was even firing at news helicopters, and it was just a huge mess.
[01:52:32]  Jesus.
[01:52:33]  He shot at people for hours until the police tried to shoot a tear gas canister in, which may have started a fire.
[01:52:40]  While the fire burned, Beck continued firing his guns until the roof collapsed.
[01:52:45]  Wow.
[01:52:46]  Well, there's criticism that can be made of the police and ATF response, absolutely.
[01:52:51]  The preparedness, not great.
[01:52:54]  There probably is some lessons to be learned in the post-action.
[01:52:58]  Right.
[01:52:58]  For sure.
[01:52:59]  But because of this baseline similarity that the situation has to Waco, conspiracy theorists latched onto the event as being the same thing all over again.
[01:53:07]  Sure, sure.
[01:53:07]  It got a fair amount of news coverage, but really wasn't that big of a story outside of this extreme right-wing media circle like Alex, and it's mostly just because they used it as a reminiscent thing of Waco.
[01:53:18]  And that's why Joe has no idea what he's talking about, but to Alex this seems like a giant.
[01:53:23]  Huge.
[01:53:23]  Yeah.
[01:53:23]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:53:24]  You can see that discrepancy.
[01:53:26]  Yeah, I gotcha.

=== Inability to Impose Justice (15:47) ===

[01:53:27]  So, I've said some positive things about Joe, but...
[01:53:31]  It's time for that to go away!
[01:53:33]  Well, not really.
[01:53:34]  It's just that I disagree.
[01:53:35]  I just don't necessarily agree with his perspective.
[01:53:39]  Joe, here's the question.
[01:53:40]  And really, don't dodge it.
[01:53:42]  If we find out Iraq did it, what should we do?
[01:53:45]  We should bomb them.
[01:53:46]  I'm not going to dodge that at all.
[01:53:47]  If we find out absolutely positively, without a doubt, that someone's guilty, they should die.
[01:53:52]  That's absolutely a fact.
[01:53:54]  I'm all for ridding the world and the United States, for that matter, of people who are evil.
[01:53:59]  You know?
[01:54:00]  I mean, if we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is guilty, I'm all for the death penalty.
[01:54:04]  It's whether or not we can do that that is the real question.
[01:54:07]  And that, I think, is just as much, if not more, of a threat to the liberty of the people of this country.
[01:54:11]  Joe, do you want to stay with us and take some calls?
[01:54:14]  Sure, absolutely.
[01:54:15]  What?
[01:54:15]  So, I think that, I mean, obviously, I get where he's coming from.
[01:54:20]  He also...
[01:54:22]  Earlier, decried people being kind of warmongery.
[01:54:25]  Sure.
[01:54:25]  And I think that, I don't know, I understand the feeling that there's a need for war based on a terrorist attack like that.
[01:54:35]  Sure, sure, sure, sure.
[01:54:35]  I understand that, particularly that evening.
[01:54:38]  I get it.
[01:54:40]  I don't know if I agree fully, because I don't think it solves the problem, and you end up killing a ton more people.
[01:54:49]  Civilians.
[01:54:50]  So, no.
[01:54:51]  Now, if I understand correctly...
[01:54:52]  It's not...
[01:54:53]  It doesn't seem productive.
[01:54:54]  Are you trying to say that so far, up to this point, war does not seem to have solved problems?
[01:55:00]  I would say war...
[01:55:03]  What is it good for?
[01:55:04]  You know what?
[01:55:05]  I'm going to go even one step further.
[01:55:07]  Dan, might you even be saying that perhaps it is war itself that led Osama bin Laden to committing these terrorist acts in the first place, thereby meaning that if we were to start another war, only guaranteeing that yet another Osama bin Laden in several years will come by and blow up something else?
[01:55:24]  Are you saying that maybe this is a cycle that happens over and over and over again that people stupid like Joe Rogan and the motherfuckers say?
[01:55:32]  Good God.
[01:55:33]  Is it something like that?
[01:55:34]  Yeah.
[01:55:37]  What is it good for?
[01:55:39]  Absolutely nothing.
[01:55:40]  Say it again.
[01:55:41]  Ah, damn it!
[01:55:43]  So, this is unfortunate for Joe.
[01:55:47]  He wasn't listening to Alex's show earlier because he critiqued something that Alex did earlier.
[01:55:52]  Oh, no.
[01:55:53]  Oh, boy.
[01:55:55]  Like the NSA didn't know they were doing this and like they could take over these planes with box cutters.
[01:55:59]  I'm sure you've heard that, Joe, that...
[01:56:01]  People called in from cell phones on board.
[01:56:03]  They were hijacking it with box cutters.
[01:56:05]  Yeah, I did hear that.
[01:56:06]  And my comment to that to a friend of mine was, you know, people were like, well, why didn't they fight?
[01:56:10]  Well, they might have been told that all that was going to happen was that they were going to bring the plane back to Kennedy Airport.
[01:56:15]  They were going to make a political statement.
[01:56:17]  I mean, we don't know what they told these pastors.
[01:56:19]  They totally lulled them into a false sense of security.
[01:56:21]  They're not going to tell them, hey, we're going to crash into the World Trade Center and kill you.
[01:56:24]  Yeah, but, Joe, I mean...
[01:56:26]  I'm just saying that a lot of people are actually questioning the courage of the people on board.
[01:56:29]  Until you're in a situation like that, I don't think you can judge.
[01:56:32]  Yeah, you know who was doing that?
[01:56:34]  The guy you're talking to.
[01:56:35]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:56:36]  I appreciate that all of Joe Rogan's criticisms about the media in response to Alex saying that the media is doing something are criticisms of Alex's media.
[01:56:47]  And Alex is essentially doing far more extreme versions of it than Joe's probably seeing other places.
[01:56:53]  Yeah, totally.
[01:56:53]  Also, I mean, it bears mentioning, like, Alex is...
[01:56:59]  Definitely advocating for bombing Iraq more than...
[01:57:03]  Or at least that's a conversation that's come up a lot more here than it has at this point on other shows.
[01:57:09]  Anywhere else.
[01:57:10]  Nobody else is even talking about Iraq yet.
[01:57:12]  Well, I mean, that one Secretary of State could have included Iraq in his and we've got to kill somebody.
[01:57:17]  We've got to blow somebody up.
[01:57:19]  Yeah, but nobody...
[01:57:20]  I don't think anybody was on the nation's tip.
[01:57:23]  Like, let's throw this on a fucking government.
[01:57:26]  It's weird.
[01:57:27]  It's weird to have...
[01:57:28]  We have Alex eventually become this guy who's like anti-Iraq war and all that becomes such a piece of his identity and he's really very much like maybe that's the option.
[01:57:41]  Let's nuke Iraq if they did it.
[01:57:42]  It does appear that the only thing stopping Alex from being the cause of all the things he complains about is that He wasn't there to make the decision.
[01:57:52]  Like, if he was there to...
[01:57:54]  He can't complain about the Iraq War.
[01:57:56]  If he was there to make the decision, he would have bombed him.
[01:57:58]  He can't complain about this.
[01:57:59]  If he was there to make the decision, he would have done that.
[01:58:01]  He can't complain about the power grid because if he was there, he would have done, you know?
[01:58:05]  Well, I think he would have bombed Iraq if he could prove that they did it.
[01:58:10]  But proving things means nothing to Alex.
[01:58:13]  There we go.
[01:58:14]  So I think if he were in a position of power, he could very easily prove whatever he wanted to prove if it was expedient towards whatever he wanted to do.
[01:58:23]  Yeah, man, that is almost word for word what someone did.
[01:58:27]  Yep.
[01:58:28]  So Joe, to his credit, doesn't want to see the UN take over the US courts, which is great.
[01:58:36]  Sure.
[01:58:37]  I think I do.
[01:58:38]  Ours are bad.
[01:58:39]  Also, to Joe's credit, he doesn't seem to like the Constitution much.
[01:58:44]  They're going to take whoever it is, Osama bin Laden or whoever it is, they're going to put them under the International Criminal Court, and all the people in the United States of America are going to say, oh, isn't this wonderful?
[01:58:54]  Now, I've got a couple other ones.
[01:58:56]  Meanwhile, Joe, the criminal court does not allow juries.
[01:58:59]  You can't face your accuser.
[01:59:00]  Double Jeopardy is reinstalled.
[01:59:02]  They can hold you for 30 years without a trial.
[01:59:04]  Do you support the UN taking control of our court system?
[01:59:07]  Well, of course I don't.
[01:59:08]  I don't support, you know, any...
[01:59:11]  Look, I don't support the Constitution as it stands right now.
[01:59:14]  I think the Constitution should reflect the will of the people.
[01:59:18]  And because it's a piece of paper that was printed a long time ago, I think there's certain things that our forefathers wanted to put in the Constitution, and they didn't.
[01:59:24]  Like, they wanted to put a 2% tax ceiling.
[01:59:28]  That would be 2% would be the highest tax you have to pay.
[01:59:30]  But they didn't put it in there because they could never conceive of it getting that high.
[01:59:34]  There's a lot of things that are in our Constitution.
[01:59:36]  What our Constitution reflects is it should reflect the will of the people.
[01:59:40]  Well, you could have mobocracy.
[01:59:42]  We need a rule of law and a republic.
[01:59:44]  That tax thing isn't what I would have gone with as an example, but the point stands.
[01:59:48]  Yeah.
[01:59:48]  I mean, you could have gone with slaves.
[01:59:51]  Sure.
[01:59:52]  There's a...
[01:59:55]  There's a recognition that the Constitution is an imperfect document.
[01:59:58]  Right.
[01:59:59]  And that's foreboding to Alex.
[02:00:01]  That is crazy.
[02:00:02]  It's very weird to hear someone say, like, you know what?
[02:00:04]  Fuck the Constitution on Alex's show.
[02:00:06]  Yeah, that is odd.
[02:00:07]  Yeah.
[02:00:08]  So, this next clip, Jordan.
[02:00:10]  Yeah.
[02:00:11]  It's a bit long.
[02:00:12]  It's about three minutes.
[02:00:13]  Oh, no.
[02:00:14]  If you cut a three-minute clip, that's not good.
[02:00:16]  Well, it's because there's an argument.
[02:00:17]  Ah.
[02:00:18]  They get into a fight.
[02:00:19]  Okay.
[02:00:20]  Now I'm interested.
[02:00:21]  I gotta say...
[02:00:23]  I admire Rogan for being able to have this conversation.
[02:00:27]  I do not admire him for doing it on 9-11.
[02:00:30]  I really am struggling again with this.
[02:00:33]  Okay, I'm fine.
[02:00:35]  I'm removing the fact that it's 9-11 on the day from my...
[02:00:38]  You should try...
[02:00:39]  I can't engage with this with the understanding.
[02:00:42]  It's hard to get through it otherwise.
[02:00:44]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:00:44]  We're having a spirited debater tonight, and Joe is not defending the New World Order.
[02:00:48]  He just simply doesn't think things are as bad as we're covering.
[02:00:51]  Probably because he's not here every day, Joe, in the trenches covering the documents.
[02:00:56]  This is my take on you, and you know you're my friend and I love you and everything, but this is my take on you.
[02:01:01]  You do yourself a disservice by saying that you're absolutely positive about things that I don't think you are.
[02:01:10]  I think by saying that you know the answer to everything, you make the whole notion ridiculous.
[02:01:15]  The whole notion that you're this guy that uncovers all these conspiracies, you have the exact answer to everything, is pretty ludicrous.
[02:01:21]  Now, Joe, since you are aggressive, I'm going to counter you.
[02:01:23]  There's a lot of disinformation, I absolutely agree with that.
[02:01:25]  There's a lot of disinformation by our own government, by the media, by all sorts of things, but I don't think you know the answer to all of it.
[02:01:31]  Okay, Joe, I know this.
[02:01:32]  And you say you do, and that's where you lose credibility with a lot of intelligent people.
[02:01:36]  Joe, I know this.
[02:01:37]  Just there, though.
[02:01:39]  That's the only place.
[02:01:41]  These are some of the private arguments we've had.
[02:01:44]  Joe, I'm here to tell you right now that Ritalin clogs more neuroreceptors than cocaine.
[02:01:51]  70% when cocaine does 50%.
[02:01:53]  It's very damaging.
[02:01:54]  It shrinks brains.
[02:01:55]  It expands parts.
[02:01:57]  It retards the growth in children.
[02:01:59]  What are you talking about?
[02:01:59]  Hold on.
[02:02:00]  Let me finish and tell you where I'm going with this.
[02:02:02]  And I've had the neuroscientist, the brain surgeon on, to cover it.
[02:02:06]  I've read about how they're putting cancer viruses in the vaccines across the board.
[02:02:10]  Why cancer is exploding.
[02:02:13]  I've gone right down the line on all of this.
[02:02:15]  We evidence it ad nauseam.
[02:02:18]  So to just sit there and say, I claim I have all the answers.
[02:02:21]  I know gun control is wrong.
[02:02:22]  I know SWAT teams are raiding innocent people's houses.
[02:02:25]  I know the military's hitting whole neighborhoods here in Texas searching for drugs that the government ships in, and that's been proven even in Esquire magazine.
[02:02:32]  I've interviewed former CIA officers that shipped it in.
[02:02:35]  I don't make any of this stuff.
[02:02:36]  Joe, I have the newscast of Oklahoma City with them bringing the unexploded bombs out of a building.
[02:02:42]  I've had the former head of Air Force Weapons Development on this show to say that building was blown out, not in.
[02:02:47]  When I'm not making this stuff up, Joe, you just can't admit how far we've slipped down into it, so you're telling me I'm doing a disservice, and it's not true.
[02:02:54]  I think you're doing yourself a disservice, and I think a lot of things that you do are fantastic.
[02:02:59]  I think you've got a huge heart.
[02:03:01]  I think you're a really, really competent guy, and you've got a lot of balls, and that's what this country needs, is someone who will stand in front of Janet Rito and question her on what happened at Waco.
[02:03:11]  I agree with you on that.
[02:03:13]  I agree with you on when you have proof, the way you have conviction, the way you have courage, and you go after it.
[02:03:18]  I think everybody admires that.
[02:03:19]  I think it's a fantastic thing that you do.
[02:03:22]  when I think you lose me is when I think you use something that's based on speculation you do use something that may or may not be true you stated as an absolute and a fact when any intelligent person listening Okay, Joe, I'll tell you this.
[02:03:38]  So, look, this is a pretty scathing critique of Alex.
[02:03:43]  But I also think it's too generous.
[02:03:45]  It's way too generous.
[02:03:46]  Yeah.
[02:03:47]  I think you take things that are speculative and you act like you're convinced of them.
[02:03:53]  Yeah.
[02:03:54]  That is a pretty...
[02:03:56]  Because I think it's very accurate.
[02:03:59]  Yeah, it's 100% accurate.
[02:04:00]  But the problem that I have is when you limit it to speculation and things that you aren't fully convinced of because he's straight up lying and making things up.
[02:04:10]  Yeah, I was going to say.
[02:04:11]  There's that.
[02:04:12]  Joe is doing him a disservice because...
[02:04:18]  He's not acknowledging Alex's greatest talent, which is lying on command about anything, anytime, for no reason.
[02:04:26]  Right.
[02:04:26]  Or for whatever reason.
[02:04:28]  Rattling off a bunch of topics that are essentially all over the place.
[02:04:35]  Totally.
[02:04:35]  So he just throws all these things on the ground, and you're supposed to pick them up and organize them and debunk the things he's saying.
[02:04:41]  Do this for me.
[02:04:42]  In order to substantiate your claim that he...
[02:04:47]  Is convinced of things that aren't fully proven or whatever.
[02:04:51]  Right, right, right.
[02:04:51]  You now have to debunk all of these hundred things that he's thrown out.
[02:04:55]  And it's like, all right, man.
[02:04:59]  It's childish.
[02:05:00]  It's a way of arguing that is like...
[02:05:03]  It is the way that people who don't want to do homework argue in a group project where you're the person who does all the work, you know?
[02:05:13]  It's like...
[02:05:15]  Everything that they do is just saying a bunch of shit at you.
[02:05:18]  And you're like, goddammit, now I have to learn about this.
[02:05:21]  Now I have to learn about this.
[02:05:22]  Now I have to learn about this.
[02:05:23]  Now I have to learn about this, man.
[02:05:24]  Fuck you!
[02:05:25]  And he's not learning anything.
[02:05:27]  No.
[02:05:28]  It's all on you.
[02:05:29]  It is.
[02:05:29]  So Alex brings up some of the books and what have you.
[02:05:34]  And Rogan isn't really convinced of a lot of the book sources.
[02:05:39]  Because books sometimes are dumb.
[02:05:41]  Yeah.
[02:05:42]  I've read more than one.
[02:05:43]  He brings up one dumb book.
[02:05:45]  Behold a Pale White Horse.
[02:05:46]  Have you ever read that?
[02:05:47]  Yeah, a lot of misinformation.
[02:05:48]  There's a lot of crazy stuff in there about the government having alien bases on the dark side of the moon.
[02:05:53]  Yeah, see, Joe, you've fallen for something here.
[02:05:56]  We don't talk about that.
[02:05:57]  We talk about...
[02:05:58]  Okay, let me give you something.
[02:05:59]  What I'm just saying is there's a lot of books like that.
[02:06:01]  Joe, what would you do if you found out the U.N. took over 70% of our landmass on October 18th of 2000?
[02:06:07]  They took over 70% of our United States landmass?
[02:06:10]  Yes.
[02:06:12]  In what way?
[02:06:13]  How do they take over?
[02:06:13]  You can read the actual treaty at Infowars.com or listen to an interview with Congressman Ron Paul.
[02:06:18]  They signed over the country to the U.N., sir.
[02:06:21]  Well, you know, again, I'd have to read that to comment on it.
[02:06:23]  Well, I got a Washington Post word from three weeks ago under the U.N. gavel admitting they claim they run our courts and are going to get rid of juries.
[02:06:30]  And the National Bar Association in Chicago, Chicago Tribune, agrees.
[02:06:34]  Okay.
[02:06:35]  That's why it's so unfair to have a conversation like this with somebody on a radio show.
[02:06:40]  Yeah.
[02:06:40]  Because Alex is not at all talking to you at all.
[02:06:43]  Not even a little bit.
[02:06:45]  What you have to say is meaningless.
[02:06:46]  What he's doing is posturing for the listeners.
[02:06:49]  He's posturing and then he's being very unsuccessful if you're paying attention.
[02:06:54]  And then second, he's also just trying to throw you off.
[02:06:57]  Absolutely.
[02:06:58]  He's throwing out these things all over the place that you can't possibly have any idea what he's talking about in order to fluster you so you look less grounded in the criticisms that you're making.
[02:07:10]  Yeah.
[02:07:10]  If you're Rogan.
[02:07:11]  It's basically like you're having an argument with.
[02:07:13]  someone you're talking about uh i don't know uh interest rates sure and then they're i don't know they're like did you know that mice are actually little people yeah i know that this is in the baltimore sun i can prove it right what sure okay Did you know the UN has 70% of America's land?
[02:07:33]  Fine.
[02:07:34]  No.
[02:07:34]  Yes?
[02:07:35]  Bad.
[02:07:36]  Good?
[02:07:36]  Did you know that they are getting rid of juries?
[02:07:38]  Sure!
[02:07:39]  Fine!
[02:07:40]  No!
[02:07:40]  Yes!
[02:07:41]  I have only no response to this.
[02:07:43]  Yeah.
[02:07:44]  So Joe tries to just reprimand Alex for, like...
[02:07:47]  Being an asshole?
[02:07:48]  Well, his inability to accept that there are things he doesn't know.
[02:07:51]  He does have that inability.
[02:07:52]  And I think that's fair.
[02:07:53]  And then Alex does what you'd expect.
[02:07:56]  He acts like a little baby.
[02:07:58]  Yeah, that sounds about right.
[02:07:58]  We didn't punish these terrorists before, and that's why this is happening regardless.
[02:08:02]  Now, this is saying that it's definitely these, quote-unquote, these terrorists.
[02:08:06]  We don't know who it is.
[02:08:07]  Just like in Oklahoma City, we didn't know who it is.
[02:08:09]  Oh, we all heard it was McVeigh acting alone.
[02:08:12]  The feds won't release the blow.
[02:08:13]  Yeah, well, we didn't hear that initially.
[02:08:14]  Surveillance cameras.
[02:08:15]  The initial reports, they were looking for Islamic fundamentalist terrorists.
[02:08:19]  That was the initial reports out of Oklahoma City.
[02:08:21]  No, I know.
[02:08:21]  I remember.
[02:08:22]  Okay, but that's what I'm talking about right now.
[02:08:23]  We're talking about something that happened today, and you're already saying these terrorists, we should have done something to these terrorists.
[02:08:29]  You even said yourself that it could have been European, trying to screw up our stock market.
[02:08:34]  We don't know who this is.
[02:08:34]  Yeah, but when I said that, you laughed.
[02:08:36]  I think that's really important.
[02:08:37]  It's really important to admit that we don't know yet.
[02:08:40]  That's what you don't do.
[02:08:41]  I have a problem with you, my friend.
[02:08:43]  A lot of it aims that direction.
[02:08:45]  You don't know.
[02:08:46]  Well, you don't.
[02:08:47]  I guess I don't know anything.
[02:08:48]  I'll just sit here.
[02:08:50]  I'll just sit here as the black scheme-ass thugs run over me.
[02:08:54]  These terrorists, but we don't know who these terrorists are.
[02:08:57]  Well, let's just go ahead and give up our rights.

=== Mad Alex's Outburst (01:42) ===

[02:09:00]  Let's just go ahead and give up our rights and let the UN run everything and then we'll be all right.
[02:09:04]  Fuck you.
[02:09:05]  Jesus Christ, man.
[02:09:06]  What a petulant dick.
[02:09:08]  I'm not saying that.
[02:09:09]  Oh, God.
[02:09:10]  What?
[02:09:10]  Just the worst.
[02:09:11]  The worst person to talk to.
[02:09:13]  Just the worst.
[02:09:15]  Because Joe's making a fine point and bringing back up the, like, why are you saying that this terrorist attack is the result of us not punishing other terrorists in the past when, first of all, you think all of those past terrorist events are fake.
[02:09:27]  Exactly.
[02:09:28]  And you think the EU did this to destabilize things to roll out the euro.
[02:09:32]  Correct.
[02:09:32]  What the fuck are you talking about?
[02:09:34]  We need to punish the terrorists.
[02:09:35]  You don't know things and that's okay.
[02:09:37]  Yeah.
[02:09:37]  This happened today.
[02:09:38]  Yeah.
[02:09:40]  Wah!
[02:09:40]  Let's give up our freedom!
[02:09:42]  Oh, fine!
[02:09:42]  I'll quit!
[02:09:43]  I'll go home, I'm gonna take my ball, and I'm gonna never love America again!
[02:09:46]  How about that?
[02:09:47]  What I wanna do is never come back here again.
[02:09:50]  Flash forward.
[02:09:51]  Flash forward, yes.
[02:09:52]  That's great.
[02:09:53]  What a prick.
[02:09:54]  God, if only Joe had stayed mad at Alex for every day since 9-11.
[02:10:00]  That was...
[02:10:01]  Oh, goddammit!
[02:10:03]  Sneaky snake.
[02:10:04]  Goddammit!
[02:10:05]  That was Joe's 9-11.
[02:10:06]  Honestly, it changed him forever.
[02:10:08]  There was an opportunity.
[02:10:10]  So Joe leaves.
[02:10:11]  They don't leave on terrible terms.
[02:10:13]  You know, they're still friends.
[02:10:14]  But there's definitely a misunderstanding between them.
[02:10:17]  There's definitely a...
[02:10:18]  Tension.
[02:10:19]  Did not see eye to eye.
[02:10:21]  I would normally say it's an emotional day, but apparently for neither of these guys, it is.
[02:10:26]  I think Rogan was given definitely a good bit of recognition of the loss and the tragedy.

=== Joe vs. Alex on 9-11 (07:24) ===

[02:10:32]  I may not have cut those clips as much.
[02:10:35]  I think it's more interesting that they had this fight on 9-11.
[02:10:41]  This is 9-11.
[02:10:43]  I just don't understand.
[02:10:46]  Every time I come back to the thought like, oh, Dan, you know what we do?
[02:10:50]  And have done for a long time.
[02:10:52]  Surprise!
[02:10:54]  Joe Rogan and Alex Jones got into a fight on 9-11.
[02:10:57]  Surprise!
[02:10:58]  You know how we've done this thing for five years and the only thing that I could say that would really make you go, that's probably not ever possible, is Joe Rogan and Alex Jones got into a fight on 9-11.
[02:11:11]  I think that's one of the wonders of this...
[02:11:18]  This entertainment space, whatever it is that Alex is doing.
[02:11:22]  You can do 700 episodes of this and still be like, what the fuck is happening?
[02:11:28]  What the fuck just happened?
[02:11:29]  No!
[02:11:30]  No!
[02:11:31]  I want to scream!
[02:11:32]  So, predictably, Joe leaves.
[02:11:35]  Yes.
[02:11:35]  And now Alex has to take control of the narrative.
[02:11:38]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
[02:11:39]  You know, I sit there and I watch this and it's the same thing with our public.
[02:11:43]  There are a lot of good people out there, a lot of good police, a lot of good military, a lot of good, you know, number one TV host, but they just can't face the system.
[02:11:52]  And, you know, going out to dinner with Joe and stuff, he'll sit there, and I know Joe's going to hear this tape later, or he's listening live right now, because I know Kevin's going to post on his website, and Joe just kept saying at dinner and stuff, man, I know it's an act, I know you don't totally believe all this, come on, tell me it's an act.
[02:12:08]  I'm like, no, this stuff's real, Joe.
[02:12:09]  Here's the evidence, here's the evidence.
[02:12:12]  He agrees with a lot of it, but he just can't go all the way, and that's the problem.
[02:12:15]  Yeah, man, he just can't face it.
[02:12:17]  It's just not man enough to face things the way that I do.
[02:12:22]  What could you possibly get out of a relationship with a person like Alex that justifies everything that he's done?
[02:12:30]  I mean, look, I used to, back when I was in college and such, I used to hang out with some people that maybe, eh, they were a little bit annoying, but they usually had weed.
[02:12:41]  Maybe that's what's going on here.
[02:12:42]  Sure, but you didn't have the weed that they came to you for.
[02:12:46]  And then you were like, you're my best friend.
[02:12:49]  Yeah, I don't know.
[02:12:52]  I can't imagine that Alex is interpersonally so generous and caring and gives you the perfect birthday gift every year.
[02:13:03]  I know!
[02:13:03]  I can't imagine what it is that would make somebody...
[02:13:07]  I mean, maybe if Alex had pulled him from the bottom of a lake while he was drowning, I would say you get a couple of years out of that.
[02:13:19]  Yeah, I've checked with the actuaries.
[02:13:22]  You get six and a half years.
[02:13:23]  Six and a half years?
[02:13:24]  See, now that seems fine.
[02:13:25]  Six and a half seems right.
[02:13:27]  25 years of friendship.
[02:13:29]  When this happened on 9-11!
[02:13:32]  I think that Joe probably stopped listening after he got off.
[02:13:37]  Totally!
[02:13:37]  Didn't hear Alex talking shit.
[02:13:39]  That's the basis of their friendship, is that Joe cannot listen to Alex.
[02:13:43]  Blissfully unaware of anything that Alex does for a living.
[02:13:46]  Must.
[02:13:46]  Must be.
[02:13:47]  That has to be almost...
[02:13:49]  Maybe there's a contract that they signed.
[02:13:51]  Yeah.
[02:13:51]  The moment Alex started doing the show.
[02:13:54]  Don't ever listen.
[02:13:55]  Don't ask me any questions about it, and we're good.
[02:13:57]  Hey, Joe, our relationship is successful because you have just created an image of what I do in your head based on what you want it to be, and I don't penetrate that reality.
[02:14:07]  Can you imagine if Alex had come back with, Joe, you do yourself a disservice by creating fantastic versions of the people around you, giving them a higher sense of value towards yourself and generosity from their spirit.
[02:14:22]  Yeah.
[02:14:23]  Yeah, who's doing a disservice now, asshole?
[02:14:26]  Hey, Joe, 20 years from now, I'm going to threaten to gut you like a pig and expose some private details about your children.
[02:14:35]  That's right.
[02:14:35]  And then you're going to have me back on your show.
[02:14:38]  Yep, yep, yep.
[02:14:39]  We're going to have a psychically abusive friendship.
[02:14:42]  I mean, for 25 years.
[02:14:45]  That's just crazy.
[02:14:47]  Very sad.
[02:14:48]  That's crazy.
[02:14:48]  So, Alex takes more calls, and one of them is a bit confused about that Rogan appearance.
[02:14:55]  Sure, as he would be.
[02:14:57]  Look, all I know is Joe Rogan called Kevin Booth, my buddy, and called me and said, I want to come on, and this guy's number one host on television, and he tells me he agrees with a lot of the stuff I say.
[02:15:08]  We're friends.
[02:15:10]  You know, Joe listens to the show.
[02:15:12]  He just can't believe all this stuff.
[02:15:14]  He believes a lot of it.
[02:15:15]  The Second Amendment's good.
[02:15:17]  The feds killed Kennedy.
[02:15:19]  Stuff like that.
[02:15:20]  He just can't go all the way.
[02:15:21]  He doesn't want to admit that his picturesque Hollywood life is in jeopardy.
[02:15:25]  He's a coward.
[02:15:26]  He doesn't want to give up the trappings of fame and the glitz and glamour of Hollywood.
[02:15:32]  He wants to hold on to that.
[02:15:34]  What?
[02:15:35]  I mean, in Joe's mind, does he think that Alex...
[02:15:43]  Is criticizing him in the same way that Joe is criticizing Alex when he says, you're relying on conjecture and bullshit.
[02:15:55]  Does Joe take that as a legitimate criticism?
[02:15:58]  I wouldn't.
[02:15:59]  Because that's a fucking dirty insult.
[02:16:01]  It's horrible.
[02:16:02]  It's a personal attack on you.
[02:16:04]  Essentially, it's saying your character is such that you value material and selfish pleasures over saving the world.
[02:16:13]  Yeah, it is him saying, listen, Joe's a nice guy, but he's a rich prick.
[02:16:18]  Like, that's what you're saying!
[02:16:19]  Yeah.
[02:16:20]  How is that not an offensive thing to hear?
[02:16:23]  He knows a lot of stuff.
[02:16:26]  And he probably has a suspicion that what I'm saying is totally true.
[02:16:31]  But...
[02:16:32]  I mean, but even then, in your conspiracies...
[02:16:37]  The top executives are the people doing the thing, and we know that Joe knows those people, and now you are saying that he is too much of a coward to stand up to them.
[02:16:49]  Why aren't you just taking the step and going, he's part of the system.
[02:16:53]  He's complicit.
[02:16:53]  Well, because he'll talk to Alex.
[02:16:55]  Because he'll keep talking to Alex.
[02:16:56]  And for 20 years, he'll be right there, almost ready, but so attached to this successful life that he can't go full hog over the...
[02:17:09]  We have fought and died, so we have liberty, so we have an open society.
[02:17:25]  Now we're not about to give it all up because somebody punched us in the nose.
[02:17:29]  We're going to strike back whoever did it.
[02:17:31]  And, Lewis, I think we know who did it, don't we?
[02:17:34]  The New World Order.
[02:17:36]  Oh my god!

=== 98% Certain It's the New World Order (04:25) ===

[02:17:40]  Yep.
[02:17:41]  I think we know who did it.
[02:17:42]  98% certain it's the New World Order, EU, Iran, Iraq, the United States government, Osama, whomever, whatever, Germany.
[02:17:51]  Yeah.
[02:17:52]  100% certain it's the New World Order.
[02:17:54]  Yep.
[02:17:55]  Ending the show proving Joe correct.
[02:17:57]  Wild.
[02:17:58]  So...
[02:17:59]  What a day!
[02:18:00]  Wow.
[02:18:01]  What a fucking...
[02:18:03]  I don't think there's any way you could necessarily expect a whole lot of this.
[02:18:08]  I think that content-wise, the morning show was wacky.
[02:18:14]  Yeah.
[02:18:14]  And all over the place.
[02:18:16]  And then this was something.
[02:18:21]  I just...
[02:18:22]  You know...
[02:18:25]  You can take the day off.
[02:18:28]  You can.
[02:18:28]  You can take the evening off.
[02:18:29]  You already did a show.
[02:18:30]  You can do it.
[02:18:31]  Yeah.
[02:18:31]  You can just say no.
[02:18:34]  Yep.
[02:18:34]  You know?
[02:18:35]  You have a choice.
[02:18:36]  There's no need for you to do another three hours if an hour plus of it is going to be arguing with Joe Rogan.
[02:18:46]  This is disrespectful.
[02:18:47]  I don't even know.
[02:18:49]  I don't know.
[02:18:51]  That this exists is disrespectful.
[02:18:54]  It really is.
[02:18:54]  That it's happened boggles my mind.
[02:18:56]  If they had made this, like, ten years later as a, hey, what would it be like if we did a show on 9-11?
[02:19:03]  Right, right, right.
[02:19:03]  I would say that is a disrespectful thing to do.
[02:19:06]  For them to do it on...
[02:19:07]  Ah!
[02:19:09]  Oh, man.
[02:19:09]  Go Boston, go New York.
[02:19:11]  That's what it...
[02:19:12]  Jesus Christ.
[02:19:13]  Yeah, I mean, the mind reels, and I...
[02:19:17]  I don't really have anything to say.
[02:19:18]  I think these episodes speak for themselves.
[02:19:20]  I don't know if it's possible to sum up.
[02:19:22]  I think that as much criticism as you may give the media, which is deserved, a lot of it is very deserved, nobody did a worse job than Alex.
[02:19:31]  Alex completely whiffed on every count with his 9-11 coverage.
[02:19:37]  This sucked.
[02:19:38]  It was disrespectful.
[02:19:39]  It was disgusting.
[02:19:41]  The way he focused largely on the grotesque images of burning bodies and people jumping.
[02:19:48]  And himself.
[02:19:49]  The way he essentially called the people who died in the planes cowards for not taking back over the plane.
[02:19:56]  Jesus.
[02:19:57]  Just abhorrent behavior all around.
[02:20:00]  The value, I think, of watching this and seeing this...
[02:20:06]  Is that you do see a very concrete example of the beginning of that narrative.
[02:20:11]  The bombs in the building narrative, and you see what it's based on.
[02:20:14]  You see the friend who becomes a world-class structural engineer.
[02:20:20]  You see the Chicago Tribune article that's being lied about.
[02:20:24]  You see this...
[02:20:27]  Apocryphal local news story that he heard a local radio host talking about.
[02:20:33]  Right.
[02:20:33]  And you see these pieces, these disparate pieces coming together that you know five years later are going to be presented not as what they are, but as like...
[02:20:45]  The world's top structural engineer came on and gave me a schematic, a breakdown with all of the equations about how this was impossible.
[02:20:56]  The chemical testing, you know, all of this.
[02:21:00]  And yeah, it's going, it's like, this is what Alex's conspiracies are.
[02:21:07]  Yep.
[02:21:07]  At core, this is what they are.
[02:21:10]  It was all there in the beginning.
[02:21:13]  Because there wasn't anything there to begin with.
[02:21:16]  It's a whim.
[02:21:18]  Yeah.
[02:21:20]  And the most real thing is probably Alex and Joe fighting.
[02:21:23]  I mean, yeah.
[02:21:24]  Yeah, that's the only thing that it felt like Alex actually gave a genuine shit about.
[02:21:30]  Being threatened.
[02:21:33]  Yeah, being threatened with the reality of not knowing things.
[02:21:37]  Yeah, with not being the person who's the smartest person on the show.
[02:21:41]  Yeah.
[02:21:42]  Wow.
[02:21:43]  So, Jordan.
[02:21:44]  Yes, Dan.
[02:21:45]  This has been a ride.
[02:21:46]  It has been a fucking rollercoaster, my friend.

=== Derry Brownfield's Sex Robots (00:32) ===

[02:21:49]  But we'll be back.
[02:21:50]  Indeed we will.
[02:21:51]  For another episode at a later date.
[02:21:54]  But until then, we have a website.
[02:21:55]  We do.
[02:21:56]  It's knowledgefight.com.
[02:21:57]  We're also on Twitter.
[02:21:58]  We are on Twitter.
[02:21:59]  It's at knowledge underscore fight and I go to bed, Jordan.
[02:22:00]  Yep, we'll be back.
[02:22:01]  But until then, I'm Neo.
[02:22:03]  I'm Leo.
[02:22:03]  I'm DZX Clark.
[02:22:05]  I'm Derry Brownfield.
[02:22:08]  That's it.
[02:22:09]  Derry Brownfield.
[02:22:10]  And now here comes the sex robots.
[02:22:12]  Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
[02:22:14]  Thanks for holding.
[02:22:16]  Hello, Alex.
[02:22:17]  I'm a first-time caller.
[02:22:18]  I'm a huge fan.
[02:22:19]  I love your work.