Knowledge Fight - #628: July 10, 2003
Aired: 2021-12-17
Duration: 01:34:40


=== Cancel Knowledge Fight (15:14) ===

[00:00:20]  It's time to pray.
[00:00:21]  I have great respect for knowledge fight.
[00:00:23]  Knowledge fight.
[00:00:24]  I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys.
[00:00:29]  Knowledge fight.
[00:00:29]  Dan and Jordan.
[00:00:31]  Knowledge fight.
[00:00:34]  Need money.
[00:00:39]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:40]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:42]  Stop it.
[00:00:42]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:43]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:45]  It's time to pray.
[00:00:47]  Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
[00:00:48]  Thanks for holding us.
[00:00:49]  Hello, Alex.
[00:00:51]  I love your world.
[00:00:53]  Knowledge Fight.
[00:00:55]  KnowledgeFight.com I love you.
[00:00:59]  Hey everybody!
[00:01:00]  Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.
[00:01:00]  I'm Dan.
[00:01:01]  I'm Jordan.
[00:01:01]  We're a couple dudes who like to sit around worship at the altar of Selene and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
[00:01:07]  Oh.
[00:01:08]  Indeed.
[00:01:09]  Emrick, if you're nasty.
[00:01:10]  Oh, no, I am not.
[00:01:12]  I'm actually quite polite.
[00:01:13]  Yeah.
[00:01:15]  Dan?
[00:01:16]  Jordan.
[00:01:16]  Quick question.
[00:01:17]  What's up?
[00:01:17]  What's your bright spot today?
[00:01:18]  I would ask that you go first.
[00:01:21]  Okay.
[00:01:21]  My bright spot today, Dan, is I saw this new TV show anime called Sunny Boy.
[00:01:28]  Whoa, Sunny Boy.
[00:01:29]  And it is...
[00:01:31]  Fucking spectacular.
[00:01:32]  It's so good.
[00:01:33]  It's an examination of this Japanese high school class that gets unmoored in space and time, right?
[00:01:40]  And so allowing that to happen, you get a wonderful mix of like Lord of the Flies examination of the dawn of civilization and society's growth and how shit falls apart along with...
[00:01:54]  Emotional messaging.
[00:01:55]  It's so good.
[00:01:56]  It's just so good.
[00:01:57]  It's a great, great show.
[00:01:58]  That sounds fun.
[00:01:59]  I highly recommend it.
[00:02:00]  All right.
[00:02:01]  Yeah.
[00:02:01]  Cool.
[00:02:02]  Yeah.
[00:02:04]  What's your bright spot?
[00:02:04]  There you go.
[00:02:06]  I was waiting.
[00:02:08]  My bright spot is that rudeness you're exhibiting.
[00:02:12]  No, I actually, this is tough for me.
[00:02:15]  I actually don't know what my bright spot is.
[00:02:17]  I mean, I know what it is, but I don't know what the name of it is.
[00:02:20]  Okay.
[00:02:21]  I saw an energy drink that was at the store, and I got it, because it looked like an interesting flavor.
[00:02:28]  Sure.
[00:02:28]  And I tried it, and it was great.
[00:02:30]  It was a Hawaiian shaved ice flavor.
[00:02:33]  Interesting?
[00:02:34]  Yeah.
[00:02:34]  An energy drink with a Hawaiian shaved ice flavor?
[00:02:37]  Hawaiian shaved ice.
[00:02:38]  Interesting.
[00:02:39]  Yeah, I mean, it was just basically like a strawberry watermelon kind of thing, but it was very tasty, and I don't remember the name of the brand, so, hey.
[00:02:47]  Whatever.
[00:02:48]  And, you know, if I did remember the name of the brand, people would think I was just advertising.
[00:02:52]  So, fuck that.
[00:02:52]  No, this is way better.
[00:02:53]  Hawaiian shaved ice flavored energy drink of some brand.
[00:02:57]  Yeah, I like it.
[00:02:58]  Bright spot.
[00:02:59]  Absolutely.
[00:03:00]  So, Jordan, today we are in the past.
[00:03:02]  We are going to be talking about July 10th, 2003.
[00:03:07]  Okay.
[00:03:07]  You may notice that there's a little bit of a gap between our last episode and July 10th.
[00:03:12]  A few days.
[00:03:13]  Yes.
[00:03:13]  Yeah.
[00:03:14]  So, here's what happened.
[00:03:16]  The audio is unlistenable.
[00:03:18]  I tried to fiddle with it and get it to a point where it could actually be usable, but it's just...
[00:03:24]  9th and 8th are...
[00:03:26]  It's outrageous.
[00:03:28]  It's comically bad, this audio.
[00:03:31]  But I did listen to a bit of the 8th, and Paul Joseph Watson showed up.
[00:03:36]  He'd just written his book.
[00:03:38]  Wow!
[00:03:39]  That is a while back!
[00:03:41]  They were promoting Paul Joseph Watson's book, Order Out of Chaos.
[00:03:45]  Uh, 17?
[00:03:47]  Yeah.
[00:03:47]  I don't know.
[00:03:48]  Yeah, but he's around, and that's a lot of fun, but hey, unlistenable audio.
[00:03:53]  Too bad.
[00:03:53]  So here we are on the 10th.
[00:03:54]  I'm very excited about this episode.
[00:03:56]  Okay.
[00:03:56]  I've been waiting anxiously to be able to talk about this.
[00:04:01]  It's so much fun.
[00:04:02]  And before we get down to business, another thing that's fun, saying hello to some new wonks.
[00:04:06]  Ooh, nicely done.
[00:04:07]  So first, they did Grand Dirty 2. Thank you so much.
[00:04:10]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:04:11]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:04:12]  Thank you very much.
[00:04:13]  Yes, they did do Grand Dirty.
[00:04:14]  This is something that apparently you're supposed to- Cowboy Bebop.
[00:04:16]  Okay.
[00:04:17]  Cowboy Bebop, my friend.
[00:04:18]  All right.
[00:04:18]  Next, Bill Cooper's long lost right leg.
[00:04:21]  Thank you so much.
[00:04:21]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:04:22]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:04:23]  Thank you very much.
[00:04:24]  Also Cowboy Bebop.
[00:04:25]  Not quite Cowboy Bebop.
[00:04:27]  Next, petition for Alex Jones to move to TikTok so Dan can use it.
[00:04:30]  Thank you so much.
[00:04:30]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:04:31]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:04:32]  Thank you very much.
[00:04:33]  I will not.
[00:04:34]  Never.
[00:04:35]  Next, Rayma.
[00:04:36]  Pronounced Rayma.
[00:04:37]  Thank you so much.
[00:04:38]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:04:39]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:04:40]  Thank you very much.
[00:04:40]  That is actually very handy, because I probably would have pronounced it Rima if I didn't have the help.
[00:04:46]  That helps.
[00:04:47]  And the sexy bathwater.
[00:04:49]  Thank you so much.
[00:04:49]  You're now a policy wonk.
[00:04:50]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:04:52]  Thank you very much!
[00:04:53]  Thank you!
[00:04:54]  Now, Jordan.
[00:04:55]  Yes, Dan.
[00:04:55]  July 10th.
[00:04:56]  July 10th.
[00:04:57]  2003.
[00:04:58]  7-10-03.
[00:05:00]  Could not be more thrilled that this audio was listenable.
[00:05:05]  Because if this wasn't, I would feel just so...
[00:05:11]  Deprived.
[00:05:12]  Here's how we start.
[00:05:13]  Coming up later in the show, I have one of the chief neocons coming on the broadcast, one of the big spin doctors, one of the co-opters of the conservative movement in this country.
[00:05:27]  In fact, if you tune in to talk radio, whether it's a local show or a national show, they're all telling you that...
[00:05:34]  Well, Bush is okay.
[00:05:36]  Yeah, he wants your guns, but go ahead and turn them in.
[00:05:38]  It's the conservative thing to do.
[00:05:41]  Well, the Patriot Act doesn't take any of your rights.
[00:05:44]  Those lying liberals, you know, they're trying to tell you bad stories.
[00:05:49]  Well, I'm not a liberal, folks, and I've read both Patriot Acts, and they're so horrible.
[00:05:54]  That it staggers the mind that they would put this type of stuff on paper.
[00:05:58]  Alex has got a big neocon coming on the show.
[00:06:00]  Who could it be?
[00:06:01]  Who's the big neocon?
[00:06:02]  Is it Irving Kristol?
[00:06:03]  Oh, no, no.
[00:06:05]  Ooh, is it Wolfowitz?
[00:06:07]  Is it someone from the Project for a New American Century?
[00:06:10]  Has the National Review been reborn with a clone of what's-his-face?
[00:06:17]  Who knows?
[00:06:18]  William F. Buckley?
[00:06:19]  Yes!
[00:06:20]  How did I forget Buckley's name?
[00:06:22]  Oh, that's Alex's cousin.
[00:06:23]  Exactly!
[00:06:24]  Look, we don't know who it is, and Alex won't say.
[00:06:28]  So, that's coming up today.
[00:06:30]  We have a couple other guests, too, but we'll just announce the guests when they come on with us, because I don't want to...
[00:06:37]  Sometimes when I have a neocon coming on and we talk about it, then they end up not coming on the show.
[00:06:44]  So, we'll just sit back and enjoy that today.
[00:06:49]  The Trojan horses.
[00:06:50]  I'm going to have more of the Trojan horses on this show.
[00:06:53]  An endless parade of them.
[00:06:55]  Yeah, so Alex is going to have a parade of Trojan horses.
[00:06:58]  I like it.
[00:06:59]  He's getting excited about this idea that now he's going to get these neocons on and he's just going to go toe-to-toe with them.
[00:07:05]  Right, right, right.
[00:07:06]  Very exciting.
[00:07:06]  But he can't say their names because if he does, they might cancel.
[00:07:09]  The Trojan horse, when you let it in, was...
[00:07:13]  That was the big mistake.
[00:07:15]  That was the problem.
[00:07:16]  Yeah.
[00:07:16]  See, it wasn't that there was a Trojan horse outside.
[00:07:20]  That was a great place for the horse to be.
[00:07:22]  You want to keep it out there.
[00:07:23]  You defeat the Trojan horse by leaving it alone.
[00:07:25]  You could have just let it go.
[00:07:27]  You don't want a parade of Trojan horses.
[00:07:29]  That's a parade worse than regular.
[00:07:32]  You're very right about that.
[00:07:33]  Yeah.
[00:07:34]  This metaphor is clunky at best.
[00:07:36]  Not good.
[00:07:36]  But I do love this idea that I can't say the name, because if I do, they're going to cancel.
[00:07:41]  What kind of...
[00:07:42]  What kind of asshole hears their name in the first hour?
[00:07:46]  No way am I going on this show!
[00:07:48]  Well, I might cancel if I heard Alex talking like this.
[00:07:51]  In the third hour today, I have one of the chief neocons coming on the show.
[00:08:02]  One of the top Trojan horses.
[00:08:04]  One of the technicians there to pacify real conservatism and to sell you the...
[00:08:12]  The sugar-coated cyanide tablet of the New World Order that is the neocon, big government, gun grab, open border, police state promoting fraud.
[00:08:23]  Sure.
[00:08:24]  We're going to have more and more of these slimy creatures on the show so that I can crush them in front of you and show you...
[00:08:31]  That they are fraud.
[00:08:33]  Yeah, I'd probably cancel.
[00:08:34]  Hey, I'm gonna cancel.
[00:08:35]  Guys, I'm gonna give him a call real quick.
[00:08:37]  What an exciting prospect.
[00:08:39]  I'm a slimy creature.
[00:08:41]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:41]  Which is only invited on the show to crush in front of his audience.
[00:08:45]  Yeah, that's a little bit combative before it's even begun.
[00:08:49]  Yeah, not great.
[00:08:52]  And it gets, I mean, this theme continues.
[00:08:55]  I do have a big fat neocon coming on the show later, but I will dish and bow with their...
[00:09:03]  Their own lies against them.
[00:09:05]  Sure.
[00:09:05]  Their own spin against them.
[00:09:07]  And also, we have another guest as well.
[00:09:09]  We'll announce those when they come up.
[00:09:10]  At this point, I'm just thinking, like, he's trying to get this person to cancel.
[00:09:14]  Yeah.
[00:09:14]  Yeah, it has to.
[00:09:16]  This is like, please just cancel.
[00:09:18]  I am going to disembowel this person because if I actually talk to them, I will be disemboweled because I'm full of shit.
[00:09:26]  This is a big, fat, slimy neocon who I've only invited on the show as a trap to destroy them in front of my audience.
[00:09:33]  Neocon who I'm going to demolish.
[00:09:36]  It doesn't scream good faith.
[00:09:38]  No.
[00:09:39]  And so I was listening to this.
[00:09:40]  I'm like, yes, yes, yes.
[00:09:42]  So excited.
[00:09:43]  This is going to be fun.
[00:09:44]  But I also was like, this person's going to cancel.
[00:09:47]  And then Alex is going to be like, well, what another coward.
[00:09:50]  That was kind of what I thought was going to happen.
[00:09:52]  It does not.
[00:09:53]  That is not what happens.
[00:09:54]  The person shows up and it's a mess.
[00:09:57]  In studio?
[00:09:58]  No.
[00:09:58]  Oh, okay, okay.
[00:10:00]  But before we get to that, because that's in the third hour, plenty of other meat to get to.
[00:10:04]  On our last episode, going over the 2003 stuff, Alex had warned that on the 4th of July there might be a little bit of a terrorist attack.
[00:10:12]  Sure!
[00:10:13]  Well, I mean, it's a good day for it.
[00:10:14]  And so this caller asks about, like, hey man, what was going on with that?
[00:10:17]  What happened?
[00:10:18]  Why wasn't there one?
[00:10:19]  I heard you say something about you were worried about the...
[00:10:23]  Federal Reserve Bankers, that's my interpretation, setting loose a terrorist attack on the 4th of July.
[00:10:31]  No, they said that.
[00:10:32]  I said I didn't know that would happen.
[00:10:34]  They put out a lot of fake terror alerts.
[00:10:35]  Yeah, that helps.
[00:10:36]  Nailed it.
[00:10:37]  We know they're only going to do it when our kids are in school.
[00:10:41]  You know, they've been training for that.
[00:10:42]  Well, the big one, yeah, according to the Red Alert and the Washington Post and the Gazette News Service out of New Jersey, they've said we're, quote, enemies and we leave our homes.
[00:10:51]  Our children will be taken to undisclosed locations.
[00:10:54]  And I have the Associated Press as early as 99, it's in the takeover, where they say FEMA was running this plan.
[00:11:00]  I know.
[00:11:01]  So we can't trust them.
[00:11:02]  We can't open up the school year.
[00:11:04]  Now, you know, if you want to open up the revolution, that would be a good way to do it, is to not go along with the next school year.
[00:11:11]  That would open up a whole panacea of questions and investigations.
[00:11:14]  Well, there's already, it's gone from 1 million five years ago to 2 million a year ago to 3 million kids homeschooling this year, this last school year.
[00:11:22]  And the way it's growing, the exodus, they are panicking.
[00:11:25]  That's why they're trying to shut that.
[00:11:26]  What?
[00:11:29]  What's even being discussed here?
[00:11:33]  Why wasn't there a terrorist attack?
[00:11:35]  It's just because they said there was going to be one.
[00:11:36]  I didn't say there was going to be one.
[00:11:38]  They said there was going to be one, and I just reported that they were saying that there was going to be one, so maybe there was.
[00:11:42]  But it didn't happen, and I wasn't wrong.
[00:11:44]  They were lying.
[00:11:46]  It's kind of like that whole QAnon thing that's like misinformation is part of the...
[00:11:51]  It's part of it.
[00:11:53]  Sometimes when we say things are wrong, maybe it was just important to the plan that misinformation get out.
[00:11:58]  It's art of war.
[00:11:59]  Disinformation is important for both enemies and us.
[00:12:01]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:12:03]  That's kind of the...
[00:12:05]  I like his rejoinder of like, well, obviously there wasn't a terrorist attack.
[00:12:10]  They're only going to do it when our kids are in school, dummy.
[00:12:12]  That's what the caller brings up.
[00:12:13]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:12:14]  That's an interesting premise.
[00:12:16]  So they're only going to do a giant terrorist attack when kids are in school, and therefore the way to stop this from happening is to never go back to school.
[00:12:23]  Exactly.
[00:12:24]  Exactly.
[00:12:25]  It is so fictional.
[00:12:27]  It's a little bit like two D&D nerds arguing like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:12:33]  Dragons only attack near large mountains.
[00:12:36]  It's not going to be an attack on river runs.
[00:12:39]  So the way to protect from dragons, get rid of mountains.
[00:12:42]  Get rid of all mountains.
[00:12:43]  Get rid of them.
[00:12:44]  Burn them up.
[00:12:45]  Yeah, and I like that Alex's response to that seems to be like, yeah, yeah.
[00:12:48]  So the way to stop the big one from coming is not have the kids in school, and that's why homeschooling is so popular, and that's why they're attacking the institution of homeschooling, because they need to have those kids in school for when the giant terrorist attack does happen.
[00:13:03]  All right.
[00:13:04]  What kind of a day did the globalists have where they were like, oh, no, we were going to do it when all the kids were in school, but we took too long.
[00:13:11]  Now there's so many of them being homeschooled.
[00:13:13]  What are we going to do now?
[00:13:15]  Does, like, Matasuri school count?
[00:13:18]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:19]  Is Waldorf education counting to this?
[00:13:21]  I don't know.
[00:13:22]  I have questions.
[00:13:23]  I need Alex to clarify.
[00:13:26]  Anyway, my man, Dan from Illinois, is back.
[00:13:31]  He's such a good dude.
[00:13:32]  He calls in every day.
[00:13:34]  Oh, boy.
[00:13:35]  Dan in Illinois, you're on the air.
[00:13:36]  Go ahead.
[00:13:37]  Alex?
[00:13:38]  Yes, sir.
[00:13:39]  Too bad Rumsfeld couldn't...
[00:13:40]  He started out with the truth as far as saying it's not about weapons and mass destruction.
[00:13:44]  Too bad they can't just go ahead and tell the truth and explain what they're doing.
[00:13:47]  We have a white paper published in 98 by him, and Dick Cheney's saying, quote, Saddam's not a threat.
[00:13:52]  He is a pretext for natural resources and a military base.
[00:13:56]  Interesting.
[00:13:57]  So Alex brings up this document, this letter.
[00:14:01]  And he can't be talking about the Rebuilding America's Defense document, the PNAC document, as it's often called, because the date is off.
[00:14:09]  He's saying it's in 1998.
[00:14:11]  What Alex is talking about is not a white paper, and the more you hear him use that term, the more you need to ask yourself if he even knows what that means.
[00:14:18]  This was a 1998 open letter that the Project for the New American Century sent to then-President Clinton, urging him to pursue regime change in Iraq.
[00:14:26]  The letter begins, quote, In your upcoming State of the Union address, you have an opportunity to chart a clear and determined course for meeting this threat.
[00:14:45]  We urge you to seize that opportunity and to enunciate a new strategy that would secure the interests of the United States and our friends and allies around the world.
[00:14:53]  That strategy should aim above all at the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime from power.
[00:14:59]  Agree with it or not, that statement absolutely doesn't seem like it's coming from folks who are saying that Saddam doesn't pose a threat.
[00:15:05]  No, no, that one says Saddam's a pretty big threat and we gotta get rid of him.
[00:15:09]  Seems like it.
[00:15:10]  That was a memo from 1998 that was signed onto by Donald Rumsfeld, but not Dick Cheney, as Alex is saying.
[00:15:17]  Another signee, though, is a future Trump national security advisor, John Bolton.

=== Rights Not Directed? (05:43) ===

[00:15:22]  Hey, that's good stuff.
[00:15:23]  An apparatchik, as Alex would say.
[00:15:26]  A couple months after that letter was sent, the group followed up with another letter to Newt Gingrich, then the Speaker of the House, and Trent Lott, the then-Senate Majority Leader.
[00:15:34]  The letter was basically them reporting that they tried to get Clinton to work on getting Saddam out of power, but he wasn't biting.
[00:15:40]  They reiterated that it was their belief that policies of containment that had been in place regarding Saddam weren't working, and that if left unchecked, he posed a very severe threat, perhaps the worst since the Cold War.
[00:15:51]  These are the letters that were written in 1998 that were seen as being indicative of a longstanding desire on the part of the members of the Bush administration to topple Saddam's government.
[00:16:01]  It's either the case that Alex is just making up things about these documents or he has such a shaky grasp on what they say that he thinks that they're saying that Saddam isn't a threat and that it's just an opportunity for resources.
[00:16:13]  Right.
[00:16:14]  I don't know.
[00:16:14]  I mean, I guess what he's...
[00:16:21]  He's just editorializing that they were aware within those letters that they sent saying we should overthrow Saddam.
[00:16:30]  What was unsaid was that the reason we're doing this is because we want that fucking oil.
[00:16:35]  Well, that's an interesting interpretation.
[00:16:40]  Right.
[00:16:40]  And if Alex said secretly they were signaling, then the claim would be different.
[00:16:46]  It would be very different.
[00:16:47]  He's saying that they sent...
[00:16:48]  And wrote the white papers saying that they knew that Saddam wasn't a threat and they just wanted resources to make a base, which is not what that letter says.
[00:16:56]  It would be a bad idea to write a letter that says that.
[00:16:59]  And I'm going to throw this out there.
[00:17:01]  Because it could be obtained by Iraq.
[00:17:04]  People in the future?
[00:17:05]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:06]  Yeah, Iraq or people in the future.
[00:17:07]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:08]  It could have been caught by them.
[00:17:09]  I wouldn't put that in writing.
[00:17:11]  Yeah.
[00:17:12]  So Alex gets another caller.
[00:17:13]  This isn't Dan in Illinois.
[00:17:15]  But this caller asks about, like, you know, hey, we talk about tyranny a lot, but what about the tyranny of the early part of our country?
[00:17:21]  How do you feel about that?
[00:17:23]  Okay.
[00:17:24]  It's a good point.
[00:17:24]  All right.
[00:17:25]  It's a lot of tyranny expressed towards non-white males.
[00:17:29]  What about slavery?
[00:17:30]  Yeah.
[00:17:30]  Yeah.
[00:17:31]  Alex has some interesting thoughts about this.
[00:17:33]  I am not surprised.
[00:17:34]  Jason, you've got a system set up in America where the individual is protected above the interest of the state or any criminal crime rings that set themselves up.
[00:17:43]  That didn't mean, though, that all the protections there were enforced or directed to the Indians or blacks in this country.
[00:17:51]  And it's up to blacks and Indians and any other human being to stand up and demand their God-given rights that the Ninth and Tenth Amendment and others only point out.
[00:18:00]  No one can take your liberties and freedoms, but certainly what happened to the American Indians was wrong to the Native Americans.
[00:18:08]  That is a cute view of history, but it's so detached from reality that I can't really believe that this is an expression of, like, idealism or naivete.
[00:18:15]  Seems like rationalizing is what he's doing.
[00:18:18]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:18:19]  It's fine that they were slaves because if they didn't want to be slaves they should have fucking done something about it.
[00:18:25]  The idea that no one can take your rights is so dumb that it barely has meaning in the real world.
[00:18:30]  If U.S. history teaches us one thing it's that you can totally have your rights deprived from you.
[00:18:34]  You may still have those rights in an abstract sense like you deserve those rights but in terms of actual concrete reality if the U.S. says you can't vote you don't have the right to vote.
[00:18:45]  No.
[00:18:46]  In the United States, at least.
[00:18:47]  The angle that Alex is taking seems like a cop-out, but that has nothing to do with the absurdity of this position that he's like, well, maybe the rights, the protection of rights weren't enforced or directed to Native Americans or black Americans.
[00:18:58]  What does it mean to not have protection of rights directed at you?
[00:19:03]  It feels like it means you don't have those rights.
[00:19:05]  I think what he's trying to say is that the Founding Fathers were itching at the bit to give everybody rights, but...
[00:19:13]  Because black people and Native Americans at that time didn't ask the Founding Fathers for those rights.
[00:19:21]  Did they not?
[00:19:21]  They didn't ask.
[00:19:22]  Okay.
[00:19:23]  They didn't say anything.
[00:19:24]  They were just like, hey, I'm loving this genocide over here.
[00:19:27]  You guys keep it coming.
[00:19:29]  Yeah.
[00:19:29]  When you say that the protection or the enforcement of rights weren't directed at these people, it seems like you're just trying really hard to not say that the U.S. had laws on the books depriving people of specific rights based on their race or gender.
[00:19:43]  The stupidest part of this clip is that Alex is pretending that he thinks that groups like Native Americans and black Americans needed to stand up and demand their God-given rights.
[00:19:51]  That's dumb, because the way he's saying that, you'd really have to think that he would be right there on their side, supporting campaigns for equal rights for all Americans.
[00:19:59]  Right.
[00:19:59]  That's not true.
[00:20:01]  He has stated his opposition to the Civil Rights Act in the past, because among other things, he feels that requiring businesses to serve people of all races could be a violation of their right of free association.
[00:20:11]  Further, his heroes and intellectual traditions that his worldview grows out of, they fought tooth and nail against the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act.
[00:20:19]  His favorite author, Gary Allen, wrote the book Communist Revolution in the Streets, portraying the calls by black Americans for equal rights as the result of a nefarious communist conspiracy.
[00:20:29]  Alex doesn't believe any of the things he's saying to this caller, he just knows that believing otherwise is...
[00:20:35]  Bad.
[00:20:36]  It's a bad look.
[00:20:37]  Yeah, you can't really say that.
[00:20:39]  And then if somebody was like, hey, what about that time America made it illegal to be Chinese here?
[00:20:45]  You can't be like, oh, that was too far in the past.

=== Promoting Alex: A Comedy Central Idea (03:03) ===

[00:20:48]  Well, the Chinese Americans just didn't stand up.
[00:20:51]  They didn't act!
[00:20:52]  They didn't ask to stay.
[00:20:53]  I'm telling you.
[00:20:54]  You've got to ask for what you need.
[00:20:57]  Otherwise, you're going to let white people just run all over you.
[00:20:59]  They didn't ask to not be excluded.
[00:21:01]  It was a terrible idea.
[00:21:03]  You've got to send a letter first.
[00:21:05]  True.
[00:21:05]  It's got to be notarized.
[00:21:06]  It's got to be notarized.
[00:21:07]  So Alex gets another caller, and this guy has an interesting idea about how to promote Alex to the masses.
[00:21:13]  Make it illegal to be Chinese here.
[00:21:15]  No, his idea would not work well.
[00:21:17]  Oh, okay.
[00:21:18]  I really hope your staff and stuff try to get you on Comedy Central's daily show with Jon Stewart.
[00:21:27]  Well, I didn't want to mention this, but I told folks that Gary Busey has called me quite a bit.
[00:21:32]  I got his home number.
[00:21:33]  He's a listener of the show.
[00:21:35]  And he is a maniac, but he's on target on a lot of subjects.
[00:21:38]  I'm with Busey, and we've got it.
[00:21:43]  Unfortunately, we've got it from online.
[00:21:44]  I didn't see it.
[00:21:45]  Everybody called about it.
[00:21:46]  My buddy saw it live.
[00:21:48]  He's talking about nanotech computers, how dangerous they are, and he goes, but I can't talk about the New World Order on this show.
[00:21:53]  This is a quote.
[00:21:54]  I can't talk about the New World Order on this show.
[00:21:56]  And he goes, well, what's the New World Order?
[00:21:57]  And he goes, Police State 2000.
[00:22:01]  I know Gary got Police State 2000 from me in all my videos.
[00:22:04]  So the caller is saying, hey, you should go on The Daily Show.
[00:22:08]  And Alex's response to that is, hey, you know what?
[00:22:11]  Gary Busey likes me.
[00:22:14]  Okay.
[00:22:15]  Alright.
[00:22:16]  I mean, I'm With Busey is a show that was on Comedy Central.
[00:22:19]  That's true.
[00:22:19]  So I guess there's a little bit of connective tissue there, but...
[00:22:22]  I forgot about I'm With Busey.
[00:22:24]  It's easy to forget.
[00:22:25]  It is.
[00:22:26]  Yeah.
[00:22:26]  I will only ever remember...
[00:22:28]  Look, I live a charmed life.
[00:22:30]  My Busey began, ended, point break.
[00:22:34]  Sure.
[00:22:34]  The end.
[00:22:35]  I never have to worry about another Busey.
[00:22:36]  What about that...
[00:22:37]  Wasn't it that baseball movie?
[00:22:40]  Wasn't it that baseball movie?
[00:22:42]  Rookie of the Year?
[00:22:43]  Isn't he in Rookie of the Year?
[00:22:43]  Yes, he was in Rookie of the Year.
[00:22:45]  Yeah, come on.
[00:22:45]  Yes, he was in Rookie of the Year with one of the all-time great reveals that the glove was actually his mom's and it's time to play softball.
[00:22:55]  Celebrity Rehab?
[00:22:56]  He was on that show?
[00:22:57]  I don't remember that one.
[00:22:59]  How did he do?
[00:22:59]  Did he get rehabbed?
[00:23:01]  He seemed to not think he had a problem, which is not surprising.
[00:23:03]  That's not a good place to start.
[00:23:05]  If I recall correctly, he was acting like he thought he was there to be a counselor.
[00:23:11]  I like that.
[00:23:12]  I like that.
[00:23:14]  That's fun.
[00:23:15]  It led to a little bit of tension between him and Dr. Drew.
[00:23:18]  Dr. Drew just needed an assistant, man.
[00:23:21]  Yeah, so I called in the Busey.
[00:23:23]  So I called in Busey to help me with these dumb celebrities over here.
[00:23:26]  I do think I would be interested to see how Jon Stewart would try to handle Alex, though.
[00:23:31]  I think that would be an interesting meeting of the minds.
[00:23:34]  But yeah, it didn't happen.
[00:23:35]  Nope.
[00:23:35]  So, are you ready to find out who the big fat slimy neocon is?

=== Ann Coulter And McCarthyism (07:57) ===

[00:23:39]  Of course I am.
[00:23:40]  Is it Will Crystal?
[00:23:41]  It is not.
[00:23:42]  Oh.
[00:23:42]  It is not.
[00:23:43]  Is it Newt Gingrich?
[00:23:44]  It's not.
[00:23:45]  It's not Tucker Carlson.
[00:23:46]  Okay.
[00:23:47]  Although he would have been someone that Alex would call that back then.
[00:23:50]  And he was slimy as fuck.
[00:23:51]  Um, nope.
[00:23:53]  I've got the neocon princess Ann Coulter scheduled to come up today on the show in the next hour.
[00:24:00]  And she says the Patriot Act doesn't take any of your rights.
[00:24:03]  The lying liberals must be stopped.
[00:24:05]  And, oh, Bush is a gun grabber, and that's good.
[00:24:07]  And, oh, but McCarthy, he's a good guy, so we can trust her.
[00:24:10]  Yeah, but she won't tell you that McCarthy got snuffed politically because he exposed that the globalists were behind the communists.
[00:24:18]  And that was McCarthy.
[00:24:19]  So we'll see if she defends McCarthy.
[00:24:21]  Yeah, man.
[00:24:23]  So it's Ann Coulter.
[00:24:24]  So he is going to tell me that Ann Coulter...
[00:24:29]  Supported McCarthy.
[00:24:31]  Uh-huh.
[00:24:32]  And that that is a bad thing.
[00:24:34]  No.
[00:24:35]  He wants to know if she supports McCarthy enough.
[00:24:38]  Oh.
[00:24:39]  Yeah.
[00:24:39]  Oh, boy.
[00:24:40]  Like, the supporting McCarthy is the, like, that's the Trojan horse aspect of it.
[00:24:44]  Yes.
[00:24:44]  The other stuff, like the belief in the Patriot Act and neoconservativism and all this stuff, that's the stuff that she really believes, but then she tricks you into liking her, but with her support of McCarthy.
[00:24:54]  Right, right.
[00:24:55]  That's the premise that Alex is going on.
[00:24:56]  I thought a lot of people really got tricked by Ann Coulter's support of McCarthy.
[00:25:01]  I thought that was a big thing that tricked them.
[00:25:03]  Sneaky!
[00:25:04]  She's so clever like that!
[00:25:06]  I can't believe she got away with it for so long!
[00:25:09]  So at this point in 2003, Ann Coulter had just released her book titled Treason!
[00:25:13]  Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism.
[00:25:16]  Around this time, Coulter was at the peak of her powers as a media troll who would just say inflammatory things and then get people mad at her to facilitate a cycle of attention.
[00:25:24]  It worked really well back then, far more so than now.
[00:25:28]  The book Treason was in a large part about how Coulter felt that McCarthyism was something that was created by the liberals' imagination and that McCarthy was in fact right and did a great job of rounding up communist spies.
[00:25:39]  Like, we have all of his words, though.
[00:25:41]  They, like, wrote them down.
[00:25:43]  Yeah, it's true.
[00:25:43]  Some of it was on TV.
[00:25:44]  Yeah, this stuff isn't true, but a big part of this show that we do here is humoring ideas.
[00:25:49]  So I decided to bite.
[00:25:51]  Let's do it.
[00:25:51]  The Venona intercepts There are some things that they definitely could be used to demonstrate.
[00:26:16]  Like, for instance, that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were, in fact, Soviet spies.
[00:26:21]  Yes, that was true.
[00:26:22]  I found that out whenever I read about it.
[00:26:24]  And the Venona intercepts do definitely back this up.
[00:26:27]  Right.
[00:26:27]  There definitely was some indication that there were a few people within government who were cooperative with the Soviet Union and providing them with information.
[00:26:34]  That is a fair assessment of the Venona intercepts.
[00:26:37]  But to say that they go so far as to.
[00:26:39]  No, no.
[00:26:48]  Though a lot of the fervor around anti-communist witch hunts in that period, they're associated with the House Un-American Activities Committee, McCarthy himself presided over the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, which he used to grandstand against alleged communists.
[00:27:02]  The transcripts of his hearings between 1953 and 1954 are all available, and they don't paint a great picture of the man.
[00:27:08]  These transcripts probably weren't available to Ann Coulter at the time of the writing of the book, though, since they were only made public in January 2003, and this book was probably...
[00:27:19]  That being said, even before 2003, there was plenty of public information that would lead someone to assess McCarthy as being an idiot and a piece of shit.
[00:27:27]  It's fun to imagine he was just trying to find out the communist spies in the government, but you have to recognize he was also doing stuff like the following.
[00:27:34]  Quote, The State Department's International Information Agency operated several overseas libraries that were freely available to citizens in host countries.
[00:27:42]  McCarthy declared them to be Soviet tools because there were books in the libraries authored by communists and their, quote, fellow travelers.
[00:27:49]  He harassed the libraries so fiercely as communist propagating tools that some of the libraries actually burned the books written by authors McCarthy deemed to be subversive.
[00:27:58]  So he's doing shit like that, too.
[00:28:01]  At no point in time, at no point in time are we going to get 100% of people saying burning books is a dumb idea.
[00:28:09]  We're just never going to get there.
[00:28:10]  Yeah.
[00:28:11]  You can get most people on board, generally.
[00:28:13]  I mean, but it should be 100.
[00:28:15]  So we've gotten into McCarthy a bit in the past, so I don't want to go too far down that road again, but I was just really interested when I heard Alex say that he was wanting to give Ann Coulter some kind of a McCarthy purity test.
[00:28:26]  Seeing that she defended him based on the Venona intercepts just kind of led down a weird road of looking into this and seeing like, oh, this does actually, it does back up some stuff, you know, like there were Soviet...
[00:28:38]  So he's not gonna surprise me and be like, I'm gonna give her a litmus test on McCarthy.
[00:28:43]  Did you like Blood Meridian?
[00:28:45]  You know, like that kind of stuff.
[00:28:46]  A lot of this stuff doesn't even come up in Alex's interview, which is why we have to deal with it up top.
[00:28:50]  Of course.
[00:28:51]  I was gonna say, of course.
[00:28:52]  Yeah.
[00:28:53]  It's just weird that citing the Venona Intercept is a fairly solid way to argue that there were Soviet spies running around in the Cold War period.
[00:29:01]  Sure.
[00:29:01]  And yet, I've literally never heard Alex bring them up.
[00:29:06]  That is weird.
[00:29:07]  Looking into Ann Coulter and her arguments in favor of McCarthy are the first time that they have ever come up in any of the discussion of things on this show.
[00:29:16]  That is really weird.
[00:29:17]  You'd think he'd incorporate them into the routine.
[00:29:18]  I mean, it's just so...
[00:29:20]  It's evidence.
[00:29:21]  It is.
[00:29:22]  Maybe that's why I can't have it.
[00:29:25]  Yeah, but I think it also is evidence that has a finite point of utility.
[00:29:31]  Like, you can't use it to argue like he likes to, that McCarthy...
[00:29:37]  were running the communists.
[00:29:38]  Right, right, right.
[00:29:39]  Or whatever.
[00:29:39]  Right.
[00:29:40]  Those are the things you don't really need evidence for because you're not going to have that evidence.
[00:29:44]  Yeah.
[00:29:45]  Things like the Venona Intercepts are like, those are real, they exist, and they get you...
[00:29:50]  This far.
[00:29:51]  Right, right, right.
[00:29:51]  Not as far as Alex wants to go.
[00:29:53]  No, no.
[00:29:54]  And in fact, they almost, by omission, make McCarthy look like an even more insane a person, considering it's like...
[00:30:00]  That's my take on it.
[00:30:00]  Yeah, like, no, no, no, there was real shit going on, and he's like, nah, nah, nah, we gotta make sure Hollywood writers can't work.
[00:30:06]  Exactly.
[00:30:06]  Yeah.
[00:30:07]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:07]  So, we get to Alex bringing Ann Coulter in, and this is a meeting of the minds, my friend.
[00:30:14]  Ann, thanks for coming on the show.
[00:30:16]  Sure, hi there.
[00:30:18]  Tell us a little bit more about yourself, and we're going to break and come back and get into the meat and potatoes of your newest book.
[00:30:25]  I'm a five-foot-tall blonde.
[00:30:29]  Six-foot-tall, 5 '10".
[00:30:30]  And you certainly break the stereotype of blondes not being smart.
[00:30:34]  My mom's a blonde.
[00:30:35]  She's real smart.
[00:30:37]  Yes, this is a rumor invented by liberals.
[00:30:41]  So I thought he was going to destroy her.
[00:30:43]  This seems pretty...
[00:30:44]  Very collegial starting off.
[00:30:45]  Seems polite.
[00:30:46]  Yeah.
[00:30:47]  Kind of fun?
[00:30:48]  Friendly?
[00:30:49]  Easy breezy?
[00:30:50]  You know, when the Trojan horse came in, they had a nice party.
[00:30:54]  Sure.
[00:30:54]  It's the same thing.
[00:30:55]  You know, buttering her up before we destroy her.
[00:30:58]  Maybe.
[00:30:59]  Maybe.
[00:30:59]  Who knows?
[00:31:00]  Tell us about your newest book.
[00:31:03]  It's about the 50-year history of treachery of the Democratic Party, of the Democratic Party becoming a refuge for traitors, for Soviet spies in the 50s.
[00:31:16]  And on to defeat in Vietnam, losing confidence to communism, being completely wrong through eight years of Reagan, and now back to their old tricks again in the war on terrorism.

=== Pan American Politics (15:37) ===

[00:31:27]  And boy, are they back to their old tricks again.
[00:31:30]  Yes, they are.
[00:31:31]  Boy, this show is so above the left-right paradigm.
[00:31:34]  Wow.
[00:31:34]  Yeah.
[00:31:34]  Wow.
[00:31:35]  Man.
[00:31:36]  All Democrats are evil.
[00:31:37]  Anyways, you're the best.
[00:31:39]  Love you, too.
[00:31:40]  It does seem a bit more friendly than I expected.
[00:31:43]  And I kind of thought, like, oh, okay, Alex was talking big, hoping the person would bail.
[00:31:48]  Right.
[00:31:48]  So he wouldn't have to do the interview.
[00:31:49]  But the fact that it is happening, Ann Calder's a big star at this point.
[00:31:53]  She's got a lot of pull that he can grab onto if she likes it.
[00:31:57]  I thought that that was what was going to happen.
[00:31:58]  Yeah.
[00:31:59]  I was wrong.
[00:32:00]  This falls apart really hard.
[00:32:01]  Good.
[00:32:01]  But it starts out seeming like you're just being a kiss-ass.
[00:32:06]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:32:07]  This is sycophantic.
[00:32:08]  But pretty quick, Alex has to, you know, clear the air.
[00:32:12]  Look, lady, I'm a Ron Paul type of guy.
[00:32:16]  Time to get this going.
[00:32:17]  I need you to know this up front.
[00:32:20]  Ann Coulter, I'm going to be honest with you right up front here on the air.
[00:32:23]  I consider myself a real conservative, a Ron Paul type, conservative slash libertarian.
[00:32:31]  Would you consider yourself a neocon, a neoconservative?
[00:32:35]  No, I'm a conservative.
[00:32:37]  Okay, because a lot of the White House calls themselves neocons, and that's their own word.
[00:32:41]  And Bush says he'll re-sign the assault weapons ban and add some nice little tidbits to it.
[00:32:48]  Bush has voted with Hillary and others for open borders.
[00:32:52]  Hillary voted with Bush for the war, so I don't know if it's just a Republican-Democrat issue.
[00:32:57]  I mean, how do you respond to that, that Bush, I mean, we see the biggest growth in the federal government ever, and a lot of different things developing.
[00:33:06]  How do you respond to that?
[00:33:09]  Could conservatives do more to shine the spotlight on the dirt in our own house?
[00:33:14]  I think it's up to conservatives to fight these issues by persuading their fellow countrymen that we don't want big socialism, supported by Teddy Kennedy and Hillary.
[00:33:24]  And not just sit back and say, oh, Bush should be stopping all of this.
[00:33:28]  Bush is the president, as president and a Republican.
[00:33:32]  He has the whole mainstream media against him.
[00:33:34]  I think Ronald Reagan did this as well.
[00:33:35]  The president can really only focus, it seems to me, on about three issues.
[00:33:40]  And I think the issues Bush has chosen are the war on terrorism, taxes, and the judiciary.
[00:33:47]  But you can't re-persuade an entire nation to stop voting for benefits for them.
[00:33:54]  Hey, hold on, Ann.
[00:33:55]  ...to us to persuade the soccer moms out there and our congressmen and our senators that we don't want big socialism.
[00:34:04]  But Ann Coulter, that's kind of a cop-out.
[00:34:06]  I mean, let's be honest here, and then we'll get into your book, but I want to get this out of the way in front.
[00:34:09]  Wow.
[00:34:10]  So, I mean, it's mildly confrontational, but I think this is a little spicier than you'd expect pretty quick.
[00:34:16]  I'm liking that.
[00:34:17]  Ann's comment that the president can only really do three things, that's kind of telling.
[00:34:23]  If she's trying to make excuses for Bush by saying he shouldn't be judged except for based on the three issues he's decided to focus on, shouldn't she have the same latitude for any politician?
[00:34:33]  No!
[00:34:34]  Any Democrat president?
[00:34:35]  No!
[00:34:36]  Anne's biggest issue could be, let's say, reducing regulation, but that wasn't one of the three issues that Obama decided to focus on, so shouldn't she have the same kind of what-can-you-do attitude towards it?
[00:34:46]  This is a pretty transparent dodging of the question.
[00:34:49]  I'm pretty glad that Alex just didn't let it stand.
[00:34:51]  You know, like, I don't know.
[00:34:52]  This is a cop-out.
[00:34:53]  Of course, Alex's objection to her answer isn't going to be anything close to where I'm coming from, but at least he's not giving up on it entirely.
[00:35:00]  You know, there is something to be said for, like, hold on a second.
[00:35:03]  No, that's some bullshit.
[00:35:05]  A president can...
[00:35:07]  Listen, when you elect somebody to run a several trillion dollar enterprise per year called the American government, What you want to make sure they can only do is focus on three out of the ten million possible things going on at any given point.
[00:35:22]  I actually do think that there is some credence to what she's saying in terms of being a public advocate about...
[00:35:29]  Every issue.
[00:35:31]  Being able to spend political capital is one of the ways that you can say there are only three things that he can focus on.
[00:35:37]  Your administration, if you're good at delegating things, can have other priorities that you're working towards.
[00:35:42]  Let's say your State Department is invested in X, Y, and Z. Sure.
[00:35:46]  Your Department of the Interior is doing all this stuff.
[00:35:49]  Your Education Department's doing these things.
[00:35:52]  There is a lot that the president could delegate.
[00:35:56]  but yeah I guess I wouldn't say they can only focus on three things but in terms of what you can publicly really make awareness towards you know maybe three maybe four you know there is a limit
[00:36:10]  amount of time that a president has uh true to advocate publicly for things and i do think that she makes a fine point that it is up to you know the conservative folk in america just to convince their fellow voters uh to go along with this true like whatever they think is the the The platform that people should be going towards.
[00:36:31]  True, true.
[00:36:32]  But this is one of the stunning aspects of American politics, and actually politics in general, is how often presidents are insistent.
[00:36:42]  I'm insistent that the buck does not stop there.
[00:36:46]  Absolutely not.
[00:36:47]  It's not my fault.
[00:36:49]  I can only focus on three things.
[00:36:52]  You know, I got this going on, I got that going on.
[00:36:54]  You don't have to hold me responsible for all the stuff I delegate.
[00:36:58]  That kind of thing.
[00:36:59]  And that's kind of what I'm hearing again and again and again and again.
[00:37:02]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:04]  I take issue with the point that she's making, although...
[00:37:09]  A different version of the point she's making, I think I could see where it was coming from.
[00:37:14]  Right, right, right.
[00:37:14]  It's kind of where I'm at.
[00:37:15]  It's a distortion of a good point.
[00:37:17]  Yeah, so here's Alex's objection.
[00:37:19]  But Ann Coulter, that's kind of a cop-out.
[00:37:21]  I mean, let's be honest here, and then we'll get into your book, but I want to get this out of the way up front.
[00:37:25]  Bush doesn't have to sign the assault weapons ban.
[00:37:27]  87% of Americans aren't against it in major polls.
[00:37:31]  89% in the Gallup poll against the open borders, which he's been pushing for.
[00:37:36]  What is open borders?
[00:37:38]  Pardon me?
[00:37:39]  What do you mean?
[00:37:40]  Uh-oh.
[00:37:42]  Oh, no!
[00:37:44]  Oh, no!
[00:37:45]  Two grifters can't be asking to define terms?
[00:37:49]  Alex's kryptonite is definitions.
[00:37:50]  You guys are going to be in real trouble here.
[00:37:53]  Yeah.
[00:37:54]  You don't want to open that can of worms.
[00:37:55]  What does open borders mean?
[00:37:57]  What do any of our buzzwords mean?
[00:37:59]  Uh-oh.
[00:38:00]  Also, Alex's objection seems to be like things that Bush didn't end up doing.
[00:38:06]  Yeah.
[00:38:08]  Okay.
[00:38:09]  His objections seem to be things he's afraid of, which don't happen.
[00:38:13]  He's above the left-right paradigm, and above the left-right paradigm, you don't have to worry about all the reality that the left-right paradigm deals with.
[00:38:20]  Above the left-right paradigm, you're just worried that everyone isn't going to be as extreme right as you want them to be.
[00:38:25]  Right, right.
[00:38:25]  Above the left line, you're just looking at weird gremlins all over the place.
[00:38:31]  So your instinct was right that Alex does not want to have to define things.
[00:38:37]  Then he fails.
[00:38:38]  Uh-oh.
[00:38:39]  What is open borders?
[00:38:41]  Pardon me?
[00:38:42]  What do you mean?
[00:38:43]  Oh, he had Fox up here right before 9-1-1 pushing for another blanket 10 million amnesty.
[00:38:49]  He's all part of this push for this Pan American Union.
[00:38:52]  I mean, look, I don't hear this on conservative talk radio.
[00:38:55]  Bush, the NRA, did put out an alert, though.
[00:38:57]  Bush says he's going to re-sign that assault weapons bill.
[00:39:00]  How can you say that he's got the whole media against him?
[00:39:03]  I don't care if he had the whole media against him.
[00:39:05]  He needs to...
[00:39:06]  To not sign that assault weapons ban.
[00:39:08]  Well, I think he also needs to get re-elected.
[00:39:11]  And there are a lot of soccer moms who vote out there.
[00:39:14]  And I'm just saying that a conservative president can't take on every issue at once.
[00:39:19]  He does have to look at being re-elected.
[00:39:21]  I think he'll probably be re-elected without much trouble.
[00:39:24]  So you think it's okay to sign the assault weapons ban?
[00:39:26]  I don't think it's okay.
[00:39:26]  But I'm saying instead of sitting back and complaining that Bush isn't doing everything for us, I think we have to understand that there's only so much the president of the United States can do.
[00:39:37]  I think that clip is super revealing.
[00:39:39]  The first thing you see is that Alex can't define what he means by open borders in any sensible way.
[00:39:45]  Granting amnesty to a certain amount of people who are already here is not the equivalent of opening the borders.
[00:39:49]  The only other thing he could even come up with was that Bush supported the Pan-American Union.
[00:39:54]  None of this amounts to open borders, and I think that Alex is going to need to define what he means by Pan American Union, because that definitely has existed for a long time.
[00:40:04]  In 1889, the first international conference of the American states was held in D.C. This was, quote, for the purpose of discussing and recommending for adoption to their respective governments some plan of arbitration for the settlement of disagreements and disputes that may hereafter arise between them and for considering questions relating to the improvement of business intercourse and means of direct communication between said countries and to encourage such reciprocal commercial relations as will be beneficial to...
[00:40:35]  Yeah, that guy was a real dick.
[00:40:48]  which would go on to be named the Pan American Union, which then became the Organization of American States.
[00:40:54]  Alex isn't worried about a Pan American Union.
[00:40:57]  He's just worried that Bush is going to let more non-white people into the country.
[00:41:00]  But even so, he has a terrible grasp on being able to defend what is a really strong accusation, and that is that Bush supports open borders.
[00:41:09]  So he quickly pivots to the assault weapons ban.
[00:41:24]  Alex doesn't even really have good information to go on here.
[00:41:27]  All he can throw out is that the NRA put out an alert that they think Bush is going to ban assault weapons, and that's really weak.
[00:41:33]  It's interesting how Anne concedes the point, because I think she gets the sense that it's not even worth arguing.
[00:41:38]  So she retreats to the very reasonable point that a president can only do so much and has to consider getting re-elected.
[00:41:44]  I think here we can see a fundamental difference in how someone like Anne Coulter and someone like Alex Jones understands power and leadership.
[00:41:51]  For someone like Anne, being the president is part of a process.
[00:41:55]  You're picking up where your predecessor left off, and you're going to leave the next president the circumstances that your term ends in.
[00:42:01]  You can do a lot, but ultimately you can't alienate the voters who determine whether you'll stay in office.
[00:42:06]  You have to make concessions and recognize that imperfect compromises might need to be struck.
[00:42:11]  Someone like Alex doesn't view leaders that way.
[00:42:14]  He really does ascribe to a strongman dictator mold in terms of people he likes and would want to be in charge.
[00:42:19]  People who would come in with a set agenda that caters to Alex's social and political preferences and then put in place whatever, whether or not most people wanted it.
[00:42:28]  We saw this play out with Trump, and even back at this point, his supporter Ron Paul has a lot of similarities.
[00:42:33]  Because he's never been president, we don't know if he'd actually follow through with it, but Alex has every reason to think that the day Ron Paul got into office, he'd unilaterally withdraw us from the UN, he'd get rid of pretty much every social welfare program, shut down OSHA, and eliminate all foreign aid.
[00:42:49]  Alex has this fantasy of what Ron Paul would do, and thankfully for him, we never had to test the theory of whether or not he would do it.
[00:42:55]  And, on the other hand, has had experiences in the actual political world.
[00:42:59]  And she's had politicians she's supported become president.
[00:43:02]  Because she's very close to the actual workings of politics and doesn't have the same delusional idealism that Alex had in 2003 and still had about Trump, although he's threatening that if Trump disappoints him 20 more times, then it's going to be over.
[00:43:15]  Any number of times now is going to be the last straw.
[00:43:18]  Yeah.
[00:43:18]  I'm not certain it means much, but I really felt like this difference came through in this chunk of their conversation.
[00:43:23]  Alex has this delusional expectation that Bush do things that he's not doing already.
[00:43:29]  Whereas Anne has a pragmatism towards the political process.
[00:43:32]  At this point, I was like, she's gonna win.
[00:43:35]  Real easily.
[00:43:36]  This is not going to be good.
[00:43:38]  It does not appear to be going well for Alex right out of the gate.
[00:43:42]  It does not seem like he's going to eviscerate her in front of the audience in order to dance upon her bones.
[00:43:47]  If I were him, this would be a point where I'm starting to walk back my position, get real polite again.
[00:43:54]  Get real polite again.
[00:43:55]  You know what?
[00:43:56]  Let's talk more about your book.
[00:43:59]  Let's talk extensively.
[00:44:01]  Your book is amazing.
[00:44:02]  Let's talk about how great McCarthy is.
[00:44:04]  Jesus.
[00:44:06]  So in this interview, Anne ends up making a point that I actually think is really good and insightful about Alex.
[00:44:13]  Too many conservatives sit back and think, you know, this is all Bush's fault.
[00:44:17]  Well, go out and persuade some soccer moms.
[00:44:19]  Go out and write an op-ed.
[00:44:21]  Complain to ABC, NBC, CBS.
[00:44:23]  Write to your congressman.
[00:44:25]  Write to your senator.
[00:44:25]  The problem with this is, look, about half the country voted for Al Gore in the last election.
[00:44:31]  We have to change that and can't just sit back and say, we got our guy in.
[00:44:35]  Now he's going to be our savior on everything.
[00:44:37]  I wish he were, but he's not going to be.
[00:44:40]  Even Ronald Reagan couldn't be.
[00:44:41]  You've got to focus as president on three big issues, and I wish both Reagan and Bush were more consistent.
[00:44:49]  So this is a fascinating point here.
[00:44:55]  Alex would never agree with it, but I think Anne is fairly right in accusing Alex of insisting that Bush do everything for him.
[00:45:01]  In the past, I wouldn't have looked at it this way, necessarily, because in many ways, Alex is doing something that could be described as politically active, the way that Anne's like, get out there and do something.
[00:45:11]  He's doing a radio show.
[00:45:12]  He's advocating for his political beliefs, which is in line with what Anne is suggesting people do.
[00:45:16]  But Anne's point is there, too, because Alex's show is basically just complaining about how Bush isn't doing everything that he wants him to do.
[00:45:23]  There's a passing of the buck in Alex's politics because he believes that things get done by strong, singular leaders, as opposed to the result of collective action, miscellaneous financial interests, and sometimes coincidences.
[00:45:35]  Bush signing the assault weapons ban, which he didn't do, wouldn't be the result of a ton of influences like millions of people electing members of Congress who would pass legislation for Bush to sign in the first place, or special interest groups lobbying for or against the bill.
[00:45:48]  It would just be a matter of Bush doing this to us because he's bad.
[00:45:52]  If Bush were good, then the millions of voters, or the majorities in Congress, or the lobbying groups, they wouldn't matter.
[00:45:58]  He would just do whatever Alex believed was right, even if doing so meant causing ridiculous political conflicts and possibly torpedoing his own career.
[00:46:06]  It's enticing to think of Alex's habit of looking at his favorite politicians as an all-powerful daddy like it started with Trump, but I don't know.
[00:46:13]  I think that feature is probably there a little bit consistently.
[00:46:16]  Yeah.
[00:46:17]  Yeah, that is a...
[00:46:18]  I mean, to a certain...
[00:46:20]  Okay.
[00:46:21]  Okay.
[00:46:23]  That's a function, really, of his same show, though.
[00:46:26]  In his efforts with his show, he is consistently telling his audience, you don't have to do anything.
[00:46:34]  You give me the money so I can do stuff.
[00:46:37]  So, in essence, his political ideology is, well, I'm not the politician, so my job is to support whomever for them to do it for me in the same way that my listeners give me money so I can do bullshit.

=== Mascot's Intelligent Pressure (08:06) ===

[00:46:50]  So it seems like an almost one-to-one explanation for how he thinks everything operates.
[00:46:56]  Sure.
[00:46:57]  And there also seems to be, like, I guess the idea would be To use the political organizing of Alex's show, like there's enough listeners, and if they vote, we can vote for the person who will do everything we want them to do.
[00:47:13]  Right, right.
[00:47:13]  So it is still kind of like, it's painfully idealistic in a way that, like, I guess I don't address nearly enough, I don't think.
[00:47:25]  You know, we could theoretically vote for somebody who wanted universal health care, but apparently we won't.
[00:47:32]  And the goal is to convince people to vote for people who would.
[00:47:38]  Yeah!
[00:47:39]  It's going well!
[00:47:40]  So Alex brings up a bill that Bush didn't veto and gets a little bit confused.
[00:47:49]  Barbara Boxer said arm all the pilots.
[00:47:51]  It's better than having the F-16s shoot the planes down.
[00:47:55]  Bush said he didn't want to arm any of the pilots.
[00:47:58]  Now, how do you...
[00:47:59]  And then the conservatives did put pressure on him, and he let it go through.
[00:48:02]  He was stopping that, threatening a veto.
[00:48:04]  Now, what do you say to that?
[00:48:08]  He didn't veto it.
[00:48:10]  Because of pressure.
[00:48:13]  Yeah, man.
[00:48:13]  See, that makes your point for you.
[00:48:15]  Oops.
[00:48:15]  If you...
[00:48:21]  It seems like Alex is almost arguing with himself.
[00:48:25]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:48:27]  A wrench so big was thrown into his brain, he's now agreeing with her to defeat himself.
[00:48:35]  Yeah, so he realizes that he's made Ant's point.
[00:48:37]  Yeah, really well.
[00:48:38]  And so he just decides to get mean.
[00:48:41]  See, that makes your point for you, but at the same time, if a big name like you and articulate...
[00:48:46]  An individual like yourself, who's kind of a mascot, well, not kind of a mascot, you are for the conservatives, and I think that's fine.
[00:48:53]  We need intelligent women out there doing this.
[00:48:56]  Then we need to have you help put some pressure in there as well, and I haven't heard you do it.
[00:49:00]  I mean, you have done a little bit today, and I appreciate that.
[00:49:03]  Look, I do in my book.
[00:49:05]  I am advising your audience that we need to persuade the American people and our representatives and senators.
[00:49:12]  I mean, what's the alternative?
[00:49:13]  Vote for Al Gore?
[00:49:14]  No.
[00:49:16]  I'm just saying, this is what Reagan did, this is what Bush is doing.
[00:49:20]  There's only so much a president can do.
[00:49:22]  I've said this many times.
[00:49:24]  I'm sure you can come up with lots of stuff he did that I don't like.
[00:49:27]  Real dickish.
[00:49:29]  Real rude to call her a mascot.
[00:49:32]  And the reason that she's a mascot is because she's an intelligent, conservative woman.
[00:49:35]  I was going to say that what he just told her is that you're our token intelligent woman, and obviously when we do have power, if it's consolidated, you will not be involved.
[00:49:47]  Well, you'll be involved as a mascot.
[00:49:49]  Yeah, as a mascot.
[00:49:50]  Hey, let's...
[00:49:52]  Excuse me, Ann.
[00:49:53]  I would like you to verify real quick that the only thing the far right cares about is your gender because you're not saying anything new, baby.
[00:50:00]  That's pretty much what he's going for right there, right?
[00:50:03]  Yeah.
[00:50:03]  Yeah.
[00:50:04]  Yeah, that's kind of insulting.
[00:50:06]  I mean, I hate Ann Coulter, but I don't think that she deserves that kind of thing from Alex.
[00:50:11]  From Alex?
[00:50:12]  No.
[00:50:12]  Definitely not.
[00:50:13]  So Alex keeps bringing up, like, why is Bush going to sign the assault weapons ban?
[00:50:19]  You know, blah, blah, blah.
[00:50:20]  Patriot Act 2. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:50:23]  Only able to do so much.
[00:50:25]  Right.
[00:50:25]  I can only answer this question the same way so many times.
[00:50:28]  You can bring up other examples, and my answer will be the same.
[00:50:32]  Yes.
[00:50:32]  And it's getting annoying.
[00:50:34]  What about that time that he went to that bar with a buddy who wasn't a friend of mine?
[00:50:38]  That guy was a real asshole.
[00:50:39]  Is he an asshole?
[00:50:40]  Right.
[00:50:41]  Ann is starting to get a little bit annoyed with Alex's style.
[00:50:44]  Good.
[00:50:45]  Why did he sign on to UNESCO?
[00:50:46]  I think there are some limits to how much the president can do.
[00:50:48]  He's not czar of the universe.
[00:50:49]  Ann, what about UNESCO?
[00:50:51]  I mean...
[00:50:52]  No, we're not going to keep doing this.
[00:50:54]  So you're not saying this is scripted like the liberals, are you?
[00:51:00]  No, I'm saying this is the same question over and over again, and I'm going to keep saying the same answer over and over again.
[00:51:07]  Yeah, there are a lot of things.
[00:51:08]  Do you want to hear that answer again?
[00:51:10]  You know, I could take a nap now, and you can keep replaying it.
[00:51:13]  A president can only focus on three issues.
[00:51:15]  His three issues, terrorism, taxes, judiciary.
[00:51:18]  He's focusing on those issues.
[00:51:19]  It's up to us to persuade our fellow Americans.
[00:51:22]  I don't agree with what she's saying, but in terms of how she's responding, Anne is right.
[00:51:28]  Yeah, that's about right.
[00:51:28]  Anne is right.
[00:51:29]  Alex has just asked this one question of, if Bush is so great, why'd he do this thing over and over again?
[00:51:35]  And Anne has made her answer totally clear.
[00:51:38]  And even, she's been fairly polite with Alex being kind of a dick, calling her a mascot because she's an intelligent conservative woman.
[00:51:44]  Again, I hate Ann Coulter, but in conversation with Alex, she comes off like less of an asshole interpersonally and more of a person who actually knows how to convey her point.
[00:51:52]  I want to talk for a second about UNESCO, though.
[00:51:55]  The organization was founded in 1946, and the United States was a founding member.
[00:52:00]  In 1984, during the Reagan administration, the U.S. withdrew from UNESCO, and it's historically a fairly open question about whether or not that was an appropriate decision.
[00:52:09]  There were some complaints of mismanagement by the then Director General, so it might not have been a totally frivolous decision.
[00:52:17]  But either way, in 1995, we'd seen a change in leadership at UNESCO and a renewed interest in rejoining.
[00:52:24]  President Clinton indicated that he wanted to rejoin at this point, but he was limited in his ability to do so by budgetary constraints.
[00:52:31]  As he left office, he requested that Bush rejoin, which he did in late 2003.
[00:52:35]  It's true that Bush was inclined to rejoin, but he honestly couldn't have done it on his own unilaterally.
[00:52:42]  In order to join, funding had to be appropriated, which was done by an act of Congress.
[00:52:46]  It wasn't the act of one person because the action needed to be, you know, the action needed other things to make it happen.
[00:52:53]  There were multiple parts.
[00:52:55]  There's like more than one branch of government.
[00:52:58]  Yeah.
[00:52:58]  And they do different things.
[00:53:01]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:53:02]  So the story of UNESCO as it relates to the United States is actually a bit of a bummer.
[00:53:06]  Ron Paul tried to get the U.S. out of it every year he was in the House, and each time it went nowhere.
[00:53:11]  But then, in 2011, UNESCO allowed Palestine in as a member state, and that was a huge problem for the United States.
[00:53:18]  At that point, we just decided to stop paying dues to UNESCO, and in 2013, they stripped the United States of voting rights.
[00:53:25]  Then in 2017, Trump's State Department announced we were going to be withdrawing again.
[00:53:29]  And when we left, we owed over $600 million in unpaid dues.
[00:53:34]  I think the United States...
[00:53:35]  It sounds like Trump.
[00:53:36]  It's a great...
[00:53:37]  Great!
[00:53:38]  We're cool.
[00:53:39]  Great roommate for the rest of the world.
[00:53:41]  Yeah.
[00:53:41]  I think we're best bros.
[00:53:42]  Yeah.
[00:53:43]  Anyway, one of my big points here is that Bush signing on to UNESCO isn't some kind of a single event that happened entirely motivated by Bush himself.
[00:53:50]  It's a piece of a larger picture that Alex just doesn't handle.
[00:53:54]  He just refuses to deal with it.
[00:53:56]  Yeah, and it's a really depressing picture, you know?
[00:53:59]  It's a really dumb picture that it's entirely possible that Nancy Reagan's astrologist told...
[00:54:05]  Ronald fucking, I got soup for brains that we should get out of UNESCO, and that's all that you needed to do.
[00:54:12]  I understand why you're saying that, but just in the interest of total fairness, the arguments at that point in the 80s for getting out were more sensible than a lot of other decisions.
[00:54:24]  For sure.
[00:54:25]  For sure.
[00:54:26]  But yeah, at this point, Anne is starting to get a little bit like...
[00:54:31]  I guess she's just realizing where she is.

=== Admitted Torture At Bagram (15:18) ===

[00:54:35]  Yeah!
[00:54:35]  And it's kind of like, oh, this isn't good.
[00:54:38]  I thought I was going to be promoting my book.
[00:54:39]  She had no idea who Alex is.
[00:54:41]  Yeah.
[00:54:42]  It's pretty clear.
[00:54:42]  It's very obvious that she really thought this was going to be a boilerplate radio appearance.
[00:54:48]  An interview with a right-wing radio person about her book.
[00:54:52]  The safest possible thing for Ann Coulter to do.
[00:54:56]  Yeah.
[00:54:56]  And now Alex decides, aha!
[00:54:59]  She's annoyed.
[00:54:59]  Got her.
[00:55:00]  I'm going to taunt her.
[00:55:01]  Now's the good time.
[00:55:01]  And you're right.
[00:55:02]  You have replayed that a few times here for us.
[00:55:04]  But, okay, we can then get into the book.
[00:55:08]  What about UNESCO?
[00:55:08]  What about this?
[00:55:09]  I'm sure there are lots of things.
[00:55:10]  We could spend six hours doing this.
[00:55:12]  Yeah, we could.
[00:55:13]  Well, I think somebody needs to, because all I hear is worship of Bush, and we're going to have a real conservative country and get back to what America is and influential people like you and others.
[00:55:21]  Okay, run against him.
[00:55:22]  Well, look, you have replayed that.
[00:55:24]  I understand your answer there.
[00:55:26]  I see we're going with that.
[00:55:28]  And, okay, I understand what you're saying.
[00:55:30]  Now, I don't think I've heard you get this hot on TV with the liberals, man.
[00:55:33]  You're getting pretty upset here.
[00:55:35]  I'm getting pretty bored.
[00:55:37]  Damn!
[00:55:39]  I am not going to say that I don't appreciate two monstrous children bickering.
[00:55:45]  That's pretty fun.
[00:55:47]  Say what you like about Ann Coulter.
[00:55:50]  She has a wit to her.
[00:55:52]  She does.
[00:55:53]  She has an ability to...
[00:55:55]  Speak extemporaneously in a way that can sometimes...
[00:55:59]  She seems like someone who's been in a debate.
[00:56:01]  She got to her position of professional troll with the talent to become a professional douchebag.
[00:56:09]  Seeing it used against Alex...
[00:56:12]  It softens it a little bit, but it's still just...
[00:56:16]  It does make you feel like maybe there's a certain time to tap into being a dick.
[00:56:22]  Maybe.
[00:56:22]  You know, when the time is right, you should have the powers of douchebaggery under your belt, you know?
[00:56:27]  That rejoinder of, like, I've never seen you this mad at liberals, I'm just bored.
[00:56:31]  Yeah, that's solid.
[00:56:33]  That's a solid one.
[00:56:34]  Exactly the poke you need to poke back at Alex.
[00:56:36]  Yeah, you're not gonna break through that at the dinner table.
[00:56:39]  Yeah.
[00:56:39]  So, we get to the Patriots.
[00:56:41]  Hatred Act 2 after this.
[00:56:43]  He was like, what about this?
[00:56:44]  What about it?
[00:56:45]  And, man, Ann just doesn't give a shit.
[00:56:48]  Hatred Act 2 has secret arrest of citizens for no reason, liability protection to police and military to act domestically.
[00:56:56]  I mean, this is stuff Bill Clinton tried to get past in his omnibus crime bill and failed.
[00:57:01]  Section 213 means they can break in your house without a warrant, take whatever they want, plant whatever they want in any criminal investigation, even if it's non-terrorism.
[00:57:10]  So you can say that, well, you haven't read it, but then you've been looking for the problems in it.
[00:57:14]  I'm begging you...
[00:57:15]  No, I haven't read the portion that provides for secret arrests with no reason.
[00:57:18]  I would be curious to see that.
[00:57:20]  Okay, let me dig it out.
[00:57:21]  I'm sorry, I just don't believe it.
[00:57:23]  Let me get it for you.
[00:57:24]  That's Section 501.
[00:57:27]  The Domestic Security Enhancement Act that they said didn't exist.
[00:57:30]  It's been introduced in the Senate, sponsored by the Democrats as S22, the Justice Domestic Security Enhancement Act.
[00:57:37]  Would you like me to read you some sections?
[00:57:39]  No.
[00:57:40]  Okay.
[00:57:44]  Love it.
[00:57:46]  No.
[00:57:47]  No, I don't.
[00:57:48]  So earlier in the interview when they were in a discussion about parts of the Patriot Act, Anne said that she hadn't read this.
[00:57:53]  So I can actually totally see how Alex would have interpreted that as her saying that she hadn't read it at all.
[00:57:58]  That kind of would be a fair reading of what she'd said.
[00:58:02]  Right.
[00:58:03]  It is really fun, though, when she clarifies that she hadn't read what he's talking about and also doesn't care.
[00:58:09]  We've talked about this a bit in the past, but there was no Patriot Act 2. The bill that Alex is referring to as Patriot Act 2 didn't pass.
[00:58:16]  Also, there's no Section 501 in S22, the Senate bill.
[00:58:20]  The first section is 1101, so this citation that he's throwing out just isn't good.
[00:58:25]  I understand that this was a proposed bill, and it wasn't cool, and it was a bit scary, but it's really counterproductive for Alex to embellish shit about it in order to take a shortcut to getting the audience invested.
[00:58:36]  It didn't pass.
[00:58:38]  It doesn't allow the stuff Alex is claiming it does.
[00:58:40]  And by this point in July, it's been six months since any action had been taken on the bill.
[00:58:45]  It was introduced and it was sent to committee.
[00:58:47]  It's essentially a dead bill at this point in July.
[00:58:50]  And Alex has every reason to know that.
[00:58:51]  Oh boy.
[00:58:52]  So now we go to calls.
[00:58:53]  Because I think Alex realized, like, I'm not getting anywhere here.
[00:58:56]  She's sniping at me.
[00:58:58]  Oh, she's kicking my ass.
[00:58:59]  So I gotta get back up.
[00:59:01]  Alrighty, well, let's take some calls.
[00:59:03]  Let's go ahead and talk to...
[00:59:05]  To Bill in Pennsylvania.
[00:59:07]  Bill, you're on the air with Ann Coulter.
[00:59:09]  Go ahead.
[00:59:09]  Yes, Alex.
[00:59:10]  How are you doing?
[00:59:11]  Fine, sir.
[00:59:12]  Hi, Ann.
[00:59:12]  In all due respect, Ann, I can't help but drawing this analogy.
[00:59:18]  Oftentimes I go into a place of business and I inquire about purchasing something, so I go to a clerk or a salesperson, and I walk away in disparagement because I oftentimes know more than they do.
[00:59:29]  And that seems to be the case here with Alex versus you.
[00:59:32]  I didn't write a book about the patient.
[00:59:35]  Right.
[00:59:36]  Well, but you cover all these issues, and I don't think you should really...
[00:59:40]  I disagree with his analysis of the Patriot Act.
[00:59:41]  Pardon?
[00:59:41]  I disagree with his analysis of the Patriot Act.
[00:59:44]  Ma 'am, but you haven't read it.
[00:59:45]  It has nothing to do with my book.
[00:59:46]  Well, I know, but maybe these are issues that you talk about, evidently, on these talk shows.
[00:59:51]  Maybe you should educate yourself.
[00:59:52]  No, I don't.
[00:59:53]  Yeah, I've heard you on a bunch of shows.
[00:59:56]  I've heard you on a bunch of shows say that it doesn't take liberties, and the liberals are lying.
[01:00:00]  It's not a liberal issue is what I'm saying.
[01:00:01]  I mean, ma 'am, you are in support of the president.
[01:00:04]  No, I have said liberals are lying, claiming there's a civil liberties crisis in America right now.
[01:00:07]  There is!
[01:00:08]  And if you think that, I think you're wrong, too.
[01:00:09]  And I think you give the liberals powerful cannon fodder by it not being a conservative issue to demand that Bush not violate the Bill of Rights or Constitution, or Bill Clinton, or anybody else.
[01:00:18]  That caller's a real asshole.
[01:00:20]  Yeah.
[01:00:20]  The back and forth of it is no good, but at this point in the episode, like...
[01:00:25]  Alex maybe was starting to win me back a little bit.
[01:00:28]  Like, Ann's shittiness is starting to show through a little more.
[01:00:30]  Yeah.
[01:00:31]  That's the Ann Coulter I remember.
[01:00:32]  Like, supporting the war, not being concerned about possible rights violations, and what have you.
[01:00:36]  Now, I'll grant that I don't believe Alex's principle is actually sincere here.
[01:00:41]  There are plenty of instances of potentially rights-violating things that Trump proposed or even put into place by executive order, and Alex had no problem with them.
[01:00:48]  Even as someone I don't fully trust the sincerity of, I still find his position here more palatable and responsible than...
[01:00:55]  not caring about violations of rights.
[01:00:59]  Right, right, right.
[01:01:00]  And what have you.
[01:01:01]  Yeah, she didn't.
[01:01:02]  No, I think that her glibness on that...
[01:01:06]  I, you know, I strongly disagree with.
[01:01:09]  Although I just, I think the way that Alex is interacting with this, like, she's on the phone, another person's on the phone, and the two of them are teaming up against the guest, I think is probably poor form.
[01:01:17]  Just that, that, fuck, it was, it's like a sports talk show.
[01:01:22]  That's what it's really sounding like, is somebody calling into the goddamn strength coach for the Philadelphia Eagles and being like, why didn't you run the 45 at the, yeah, it's that bullshit.
[01:01:34]  Yeah.
[01:01:35]  And so, another thing that I think is also in terms of, like, the Alex v. Ann thing, where I kind of side more with Alex, is that Ann is very clear that she supports the war on terror.
[01:01:47]  Of course.
[01:01:48]  You support the so-called administration's war on terrorism, correct?
[01:01:52]  Yes.
[01:01:53]  She's written a chapter on it, yeah.
[01:01:54]  Okay, well, if that's the case, then I would suggest maybe you should research this very critical legislation.
[01:02:02]  That you don't seem to know anything about.
[01:02:04]  Give me an example of someone whose civil rights have been violated.
[01:02:07]  We have American citizens being taken to Camp X-Ray.
[01:02:11]  The White House admits people have been, quote, tortured to death at Bagram Air Base.
[01:02:15]  Tortured to death.
[01:02:16]  That's preposterous.
[01:02:18]  What are you talking about?
[01:02:19]  Wow.
[01:02:19]  That's admitted by the White House.
[01:02:20]  Two weeks ago they said they won't, quote, allow that to happen anymore.
[01:02:24]  That is absurd.
[01:02:27]  The government has not tortured anyone to death.
[01:02:29]  Wow.
[01:02:29]  That's absolutely absurd.
[01:02:32]  It's not absurd.
[01:02:33]  They admitted it.
[01:02:35]  Oh, really?
[01:02:36]  Yeah, the White House.
[01:02:37]  Yes, the CIA section chief of the Middle East.
[01:02:40]  This is insane.
[01:02:40]  The government has not tortured anyone to death.
[01:02:44]  See, you even fell for the sleight of hand that Alex did there.
[01:02:48]  So the problem with this conversation and how it's been carried out is very clear here.
[01:02:53]  These two people are talking about things so imprecisely that a pretty decent argument can be made that they're both right and they're also both correct in saying the other is wrong.
[01:03:02]  Up to this point, the discussion has been about the Patriot Act and Patriot Act 2, and it's centered entirely around the notion of the infringement of American citizens' rights.
[01:03:11]  So when Anne asks for an example of that, it's fair to assume that she's looking for an example of a citizen of the United States.
[01:03:17]  And even she's clear in her question that she's talking about the violation of civil rights.
[01:03:22]  Alex follows this up by saying that U.S. citizens were taken to Camp X-Ray, which continues the theme of discussing U.S. citizens.
[01:03:29]  He then jumps to torture at Bagram Internment Facility, which really complicates things, because now the conversation is incoherent.
[01:03:37]  Anne has every reason to think that they're still talking about U.S. citizens and their rights possibly being violated, so she's absolutely correct that the U.S. didn't torture any U.S. citizens to death at Bagram.
[01:03:47]  Simultaneously, Alex is so used to jumping all over the place and not staying on topic that he probably doesn't even realize that...
[01:03:53]  He's now shifted over to talking about non-US citizens in a discussion about civil rights.
[01:03:58]  And he's correct.
[01:04:00]  In December 2002, our soldiers killed two citizens of Afghanistan at Bagram, and they had been tortured.
[01:04:05]  Both Alex and Anne will probably leave the exchange thinking the other is completely insane and wrong, and Alex will take this as proof that she's a liar who rejects proven reality.
[01:04:15]  But it's actually just a case of people not being precise with what they're talking about, and ultimately, in this specific exchange, Alex is far more guilty of making this conversation nonsensical.
[01:04:25]  It's hard to tell if that's a debate strategy or if his mind just doesn't have the normal guardrails that most people have, but either way, the result is the same.
[01:04:33]  Also, Camp X-Ray is a part of Guantanamo Bay.
[01:04:36]  A man named Yasser Hamdi was captured in Afghanistan and declared an enemy combatant.
[01:04:41]  He was raised in Saudi Arabia, but he was born in Louisiana, so the government claimed that when they held him in Camp X-Ray, they didn't know that he was a U.S. citizen.
[01:04:50]  Once it was known that he was a citizen, he was sent to a jail in the United States.
[01:04:54]  According to findings in a Supreme Court opinion from his case against Donald Rumsfeld, he was taken to Guantanamo in January 2002, and it became clear that he was a citizen in April 2002, and he was sent to Norfolk, Virginia.
[01:05:07]  According to the information that they have, they didn't know he was a citizen.
[01:05:12]  They did find out they did not allow him to be held at Camp X-Ray.
[01:05:16]  Whatever you want.
[01:05:16]  To be clear.
[01:05:17]  I'm not saying that any of this is okay.
[01:05:19]  It's just not relevant to the point Alex is trying to make.
[01:05:23]  I would say I'm opposed to people being taken to Guantanamo, US citizen or not, and that I don't think that this case in any way indicates a desire on the part of our government to put US citizens in camps or establish that precedent.
[01:05:35]  I think it's all nonsensical.
[01:05:36]  I think the argument they're having...
[01:05:37]  Right.
[01:05:39]  The point here is that because Anne and Alex have such incompatible communication styles, it's almost impossible for them to actually have a conversation that means anything.
[01:05:47]  And this exchange really illustrates it.
[01:05:49]  They're always talking about two different things.
[01:05:51]  But notice how you responded to their nonsensical, incoherent conversation.
[01:05:56]  You prioritized...
[01:05:59]  The fact that people were tortured, because that is a more important issue, realistically speaking.
[01:06:04]  Oh, sure.
[01:06:04]  You sided with Alex.
[01:06:06]  You were responding to Ann Coulter saying that no one was tortured to death as, like, she's wrong.
[01:06:12]  Oh, no.
[01:06:13]  I was responding to Ann Coulter saying, find me someone whose civil rights were violated.
[01:06:19]  Because in my head, it's like, well, listen.
[01:06:21]  That doesn't prove anything towards any argument.
[01:06:24]  But in America, if you want to find somebody who's civil rights, you can find an example.
[01:06:29]  She meant specifically as a result of the Patriot Act.
[01:06:34]  And whether or not you could produce that person.
[01:06:38]  Sure.
[01:06:38]  Alex can't.
[01:06:39]  No, absolutely not.
[01:06:41]  It's clear that he can't.
[01:06:42]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:06:44]  It's just so stupid.
[01:06:45]  That was where it started being just like, what are we doing?
[01:06:49]  Why are you asking me for an example?
[01:06:51]  I agree with you.
[01:06:52]  I think it's stupid, but it's also the game that Alex is playing.
[01:06:55]  He's making a claim.
[01:06:56]  He's not used to people challenging his claims.
[01:06:59]  His claim is challenged.
[01:07:00]  He can't defend it.
[01:07:01]  He can't back it up at all.
[01:07:02]  That's fascinating.
[01:07:03]  Second.
[01:07:04]  I don't believe you at all.
[01:07:05]  I think that you did not see the sleight of hand from U.S. citizen to people being tortured.
[01:07:11]  Oh yeah, no, I didn't see that.
[01:07:12]  I think it's really easy to miss.
[01:07:15]  If you're not paying attention, you could very easily get that.
[01:07:20]  And when he's saying that people were tortured, you could be like, you'd forget.
[01:07:24]  That the conversation was centered around U.S. citizens.
[01:07:27]  Right.
[01:07:28]  No, and I understand that that is an important thing for a conversation that is trying to go somewhere, is to maintain a, like, if we're talking about U.S. citizens, then we can only have a point if we're both talking about the same thing.
[01:07:42]  Well, if the question I asked you was based on the rights of U.S. citizens, and you respond with something about...
[01:07:49]  Other people who aren't U.S. citizens.
[01:07:51]  Right, right, right.
[01:07:51]  Then what are we doing?
[01:07:53]  No, of course.
[01:07:53]  It's a pointless conversation.
[01:07:55]  Yeah.
[01:07:55]  But I just don't care about U.S. citizens versus non-citizens.
[01:07:58]  I think that's ridiculous.
[01:08:00]  I am 100% for open borders.
[01:08:02]  I think I was trying to make that point that I don't care about the distinction.
[01:08:08]  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:08:10]  But, yeah, it's just interesting to me to see the path that this goes and how from an external perspective, really looking at it, you can see, all right, here's where this is going off track.
[01:08:22]  And neither of them really recognize, like, the other one, except Anne kind of does a little bit later.
[01:08:28]  Yeah.
[01:08:28]  At this point in the conversation, they just are butting heads about completely...
[01:08:32]  It does feel like Alex is...
[01:08:37]  Trying to find a weak point.
[01:08:39]  And if he can find a weak point, then he's going to hammer it home and never speak about anything else again.
[01:08:44]  So we're just getting a lot of, like, little pokes here and there.
[01:08:47]  And Ann tries to stay on topic because I think, you know, she's smart enough to recognize, like, what are we talking about?
[01:08:56]  Or type in White House admits that Taliban fighters were tortured to death at Magram Air Base.
[01:09:04]  I mean, there's hundreds of articles.
[01:09:06]  It's admitted.
[01:09:08]  It's admitted.
[01:09:09]  You're talking about civil rights violations.
[01:09:11]  What do you mean they've had the pundits?
[01:09:12]  You just switched it over to Bagram.
[01:09:15]  Hold on.
[01:09:15]  Yes.
[01:09:16]  Yes.
[01:09:17]  And they said they fly them.
[01:09:18]  To Egypt and to Jordan for third parties to torture them.
[01:09:22]  We're talking about Americans in this country.
[01:09:25]  I asked for a civil rights violation in this country.
[01:09:26]  Well, yeah, there's citizens who've been taken.
[01:09:29]  They're going to be tried before a military trial.
[01:09:32]  Hold on, let me answer your question.
[01:09:34]  Massawi and others, they've got to dig the articles out right now.

=== Enemy Combatant Controversies (05:48) ===

[01:09:37]  There's a bunch of citizens, British citizens, Australian Americans, being taken to Camp X-Ray.
[01:09:42]  They're building an execution chamber.
[01:09:44]  Paul Wolfowitz will appoint the three military judges that will try them without juries.
[01:09:49]  They can't face their accusers.
[01:09:50]  It's a kangaroo court.
[01:09:52]  Right, and we're talking about civil rights violations in this country.
[01:09:55]  Yeah, enemy combatant designations of American citizens.
[01:09:59]  No, that is a wartime crime.
[01:10:02]  Yes, that may have happened.
[01:10:03]  Are you denouncing the entire U.S. military over this?
[01:10:06]  No, I think it's horrible that they're huffing depleted uranium, and I think it's horrible they got hit by VX and sarin, according to hundreds of publications in universities, University of Texas at Dallas.
[01:10:16]  And I think it's horrible they weren't given treatment for that.
[01:10:19]  I do support the troops, yes.
[01:10:20]  I think the anthrax shot was very dangerous, and they finally suspended it.
[01:10:24]  I mean, yeah, I do support the troops.
[01:10:26]  But I don't let people say, do you support the troops?
[01:10:29]  Well, you've got to support what I say, or you don't support them.
[01:10:31]  Oh, is that what we were talking about?
[01:10:38]  They are now saying that they will use it for banking, for everything, for all crimes.
[01:10:43]  An article in the Washington Times titled...
[01:10:46]  All over the place they're using the Patriot Act.
[01:10:51]  Ann, you said you haven't read the Patriot Act.
[01:10:54]  No, I said I read it.
[01:10:55]  I said I hadn't read the part about how innocent Americans can be arrested secretly on the basis of no evidence.
[01:11:01]  I believe I'm quoting you on that.
[01:11:02]  Yes, it actually says that.
[01:11:04]  Section 501.
[01:11:05]  Which says what?
[01:11:06]  Tied into Section 802.
[01:11:07]  Innocent Americans can be arrested for no reason in secret proceedings.
[01:11:10]  Yes, it says that they don't even need to think a crime's been committed, that you can be snatched off the street secretly and held.
[01:11:16]  That's not in the Patriot Act.
[01:11:18]  Yes, Patriot Act 2. Yes, it is.
[01:11:20]  Oh, boy.
[01:11:20]  So what you see here is such a great example of how Alex can't answer any questions or dig deeper into any of these narratives and talking points, even at this point in his career, even in 2003.
[01:11:31]  Anne has asked him for an example of someone who had their rights violated because of the Patriot Act, and he's incapable of coming up with a single example.
[01:11:38]  Whether or not there are people who fit that description, if Alex can't come up with something that defends his claim, he's lost the point in terms of the conversation and has no reason to take seriously his claim.
[01:11:48]  No one has ever really challenged him on this point before, especially on the show, so Alex is unprepared to do anything other than what he always does on the show, which is to bounce all over the place.
[01:11:57]  The conversation of civil rights swings to the use of torture against foreign combatants, and once Anne realizes that this switch has happened, she tries to get back on track and remind Alex that they're talking about U.S. citizen civil rights.
[01:12:09]  Alex tries to bring up various country citizens being designated as enemy combatants, which, again, agree with it or not, Anne has a perfectly sensible response to in that...
[01:12:17]  You know, aiding the enemy is a wartime crime.
[01:12:20]  My point is not about which side here I agree with.
[01:12:23]  It's about who's actually making coherent sense and trying to stick to the point, and that person is undoubtedly Ann Coulter.
[01:12:29]  Unfortunately.
[01:12:29]  Unfortunately, indeed.
[01:12:31]  The use of torture against foreign combatants is disgusting and should never be acceptable, but it doesn't intersect with the civil rights concerns that Alex is bringing up, so it's really irrelevant to the conversation.
[01:12:41]  Citizens of other countries being designated enemy combatants also doesn't really have anything to do with the point, but the notion that U.S. citizens are being taken to Camp X-Ray is partially relevant.
[01:12:51]  There's only one example that Alex could possibly have about this, which is Yasser Hamdi, who at this point had already been transferred to a U.S. prison once it was known he was a citizen.
[01:13:01]  At this point, the only other citizen who had been declared an enemy combatant was Jose Padilla, who was sentenced for planning to manufacture a radiological bomb and held at a military prison in South Carolina.
[01:13:12]  Both of these instances are interesting and a concern to civil liberties organizations, but neither of them were made possible by the Patriot Act.
[01:13:20]  This really has much more to do with the Authorization for Use of Military Force, which was signed on September 18, 2001, which itself was highly reliant on a 1942 Supreme Court ruling, Ex parte Quirin, a case regarding the use of military tribunals for eight captured German saboteurs.
[01:13:39]  Instead of dealing with some of these subtleties, Alex just points a finger at the Patriot Act, because that's something that's easy to hang your hat on.
[01:13:45]  It's a good shorthand, and being opposed to it gives him some kind of a credibility in this left- and right-wing civil libertarian liberties community.
[01:13:54]  Strictly speaking, though, Anne is still right.
[01:13:57]  And if Alex wants to take issue with the designation of people as enemy combatants, that essentially requires a fundamental opposition to the way that the U.S. military operates.
[01:14:08]  Alex doesn't want to deal with that, so instead he jumps to another one of his preloaded talking points about what it means to support the troops.
[01:14:14]  Anne wasn't talking about supporting the troops or not.
[01:14:17]  That's a false point that Alex is responding to because he has that pre-scripted rant about how he's the one who supports the troops, and by throwing that out, he can pretend to have some kind of a moral high ground.
[01:14:26]  This is an incredibly pointless conversation they're having, and Alex is losing.
[01:14:31]  Yeah, the point where she said, then do you...
[01:14:36]  If you fundamentally disagree with how the U.S. military works, then the answer you have to give is yes.
[01:14:41]  Should have been yes.
[01:14:42]  Yes, because then you can continue a conversation.
[01:14:44]  If you say, no, I still want them to do everything and I support the troops, then stop talking.
[01:14:52]  Yeah, that's just shifting the conversation in order to score a point.
[01:14:57]  Absolutely.
[01:14:57]  So, we had another caller.
[01:15:00]  These callers suck.
[01:15:02]  Could Ms. Coulter please...
[01:15:03]  Talk about the morality of a president that attends Bohemian Grove.
[01:15:07]  Oh, yeah.
[01:15:08]  Bush admits he goes to the Grove in Skull and Bones, and these are not Christian organizations.

=== Prescott Bush's Nazi Connection (12:04) ===

[01:15:13]  Are you aware of those, Ann?
[01:15:15]  Vaguely.
[01:15:16]  Men get dressed up in women's clothes and sing songs.
[01:15:20]  Well, according to the Washington Times, they bus in male prostitutes.
[01:15:26]  That is absurd.
[01:15:28]  Oh, bet me $10,000.
[01:15:30]  Hold on, hold on, hold on.
[01:15:31]  Hold on, John.
[01:15:33]  I'm not a betting man, but Ann, I'm ready to put my money where my mouth is.
[01:15:37]  George Bush attends functions with male prostitutes.
[01:15:42]  Sacramento Bee, Associated Press, Parade Magazine, Spy Magazine.
[01:15:46]  I have all the news articles.
[01:15:49]  Whatever goes on at the Grove, the sources that Alex is citing don't back up his claim that gay sex workers are carted in to work for the group members.
[01:15:58]  There's no women around, and articles like the ones Alex references do discuss the vague homoeroticism that hangs in the air, including but not limited to men playing women very lewdly in stage performances and the audience hooting and hollering.
[01:16:11]  Of course.
[01:16:11]  The stories that Alex is referencing do discuss prostitution, but the story doesn't match what he's saying.
[01:16:17]  Essentially, there is a nearby city to the Bohemian Grove called Monte Rio, and there's a bar there that was notorious for being a place where Bohemian Club members could slip away at night to order a sex worker.
[01:16:30]  According to a 1975 book by G. William Demoff, this is what the group members referred to as river jumping.
[01:16:37]  This Washington Times article that Alex is referring to is from 1989, and it doesn't actually have to do with Bohemian Grove at all.
[01:16:43]  It has to do with the fear that the Soviet Union was using male sex workers to ensnare politicians.
[01:16:49]  Not great.
[01:16:50]  Quote, we have known for many, many years that there is a department of the KGB whose job it is to prey on sexual deviance, said retired Lieutenant General Daniel Graham, former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.
[01:17:02]  Because closet homosexuals in government service can easily be turned through blackmail for espionage purposes, General Graham said, quote, we have always in intelligence tried very hard not to be giving classified information to known homosexuals.
[01:17:15]  Boy, could have gone the other direction.
[01:17:17]  You know, you could have just been...
[01:17:18]  It's okay to be gay.
[01:17:20]  Wow, that's interesting.
[01:17:21]  Yeah.
[01:17:21]  Totally cool source that is here, and it actually doesn't prove anything about Bohemian Grove.
[01:17:26]  No.
[01:17:26]  In 2004, which is after this episode was recorded, Prison Planet reposted a New York Post article about how there was a former gay porn star named Chad Savage who worked as a valet at the Grove, which is meant to imply that I guess he was secretly also a sex worker for the powerful man there.
[01:17:42]  This is a bit of a leap, and definitely not substantiated by the reporting.
[01:17:46]  The Grove spokesperson Sam Singer said, quote, the club doesn't care about his past.
[01:17:50]  It's totally possible that he was someone who worked in the service industry and also in porno.
[01:17:55]  It's not like sex work always pays everyone's bills.
[01:17:57]  People also sometimes have to have a second revenue stream.
[01:18:00]  Anyway, I can find no evidence of the claim that Alex is making, so Anne might be able to win $10,000 here if she takes Alex up on it.
[01:18:07]  And interestingly, if you do try to find claims of gay prostitutes being taken into Bohemian Grove, so many of the sources just link back to Alex.
[01:18:16]  Of course.
[01:18:17]  Of course.
[01:18:19]  It's really tough to...
[01:18:20]  Try and find, like, where is this coming from if not from an InfoWars article?
[01:18:24]  It's very weird.
[01:18:25]  I do think that it is enjoyable to see a theoretically conservative luminary.
[01:18:33]  Being peppered with the questions of people who actually follow them.
[01:18:37]  That's great.
[01:18:38]  And will become a problem for them years down the line.
[01:18:41]  Oh yeah.
[01:18:42]  So good.
[01:18:43]  It's always great whenever you have somebody who's like a screeching talking head on TV actually confronted with what they've created.
[01:18:50]  Yeah.
[01:18:50]  And meet your demise years from now.
[01:18:52]  Exactly.
[01:18:53]  It's these people.
[01:18:54]  Yup.
[01:18:55]  So we get another caller.
[01:18:56]  And this is where Anne is like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm talking to you weirdos.
[01:19:00]  John in Tennessee, you're on the air with Ann Coulter.
[01:19:03]  Go ahead.
[01:19:04]  Yes.
[01:19:04]  Isn't the title of your new book a propaganda attempt to divert attention from the treason of Prescott Bush's criminal convictions for arming Adolf Hitler during World War II to divert attention from Sir Bush Jr.'s connection to the assassination of Ronald Reagan and Rand Contra.
[01:19:23]  Ma 'am, ma 'am, ma 'am, ma 'am.
[01:19:25]  I have the Pittsburgh and New York news articles from 42 When Prescott was arrested, are you saying that didn't happen?
[01:19:33]  I'm saying this is absolutely nutty, and you ought to get back to concentrating on the black helicopters.
[01:19:39]  Okay, which they now admit are surveilling the country with the drones, according to the Houston Chronicle and Senator Warner.
[01:19:45]  You mean those?
[01:19:46]  Oh boy.
[01:19:47]  So, I kind of feel like Anne is handling this pretty well, and I would definitely listen to a show where Alex and Anne were forced to take calls together.
[01:19:54]  Oh, it'd be great.
[01:19:54]  That would be so much fun as punishment for both of them, as long as proceeds from the show went to a charity that both of them didn't support.
[01:20:01]  Yes, they can't have anything to do with the money.
[01:20:03]  Prescott Bush was not criminally convicted, like this caller is saying, and like Alex is saying.
[01:20:07]  He was on the board of a couple of companies that did business with a man named Fritz Thyssen, who was an industrialist in Germany and had been a member of the Nazi party.
[01:20:15]  Doing business with Thyssen was totally not illegal until the end of 1941 when the U.S. entered World War II, since we were technically neutral up to that point.
[01:20:25]  In 1942, the assets of these companies were seized, and by that point, Thyssen had had a falling out with Hitler and was no longer a supporter of the Nazi party.
[01:20:34]  In fact, Thyssen had supported the rise of Hitler and the Nazis financially and materially, but had a strong break in 1939 when Germany decided to invade Poland.
[01:20:44]  Oh, I thought it was like Hitler slept with his girlfriend or something.
[01:20:47]  In 1940, some of his private letters were published in Life magazine.
[01:20:52]  From the article, quote, In publishing the papers leading to my break with Adolf Hitler, I wish to show that the German nation, which elected Hitler its leader because of his professed opposition to communism, is innocent in the developments that turn national socialism into its opposite.
[01:21:07]  In his letters, he was pretty clearly opposed to the mistreatment of Jewish Germans.
[01:21:13]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:21:13]  Quote, on November 9th, 1938, the Jews were robbed and tortured in the most cowardly and most brutal manner, and their synagogues destroyed all over Germany, I protested once more.
[01:21:24]  As an outward expression of my repugnance, I resigned my position of state counselor.
[01:21:29]  All my protests obtained no reply and no remedy.
[01:21:32]  Essentially, it's a pretty messy situation.
[01:21:35]  Materially, this guy, and by extension, the U.S. folks like Prescott Bush, who did business with him, had a direct impact in the rise of the Nazi party.
[01:21:42]  At the same time, looking at their precise actions and what they did, it's kind of different than if you were to look at Sure, sure.
[01:21:52]  Sure.
[01:21:52]  All these people have a certain amount of historical blame, but it's not always totally cut and dry.
[01:21:57]  And make no mistake, I'm not saying that Thiessen or Bush had great intentions.
[01:22:01]  They would have been happy to create an oppressive corporate state where labor rights were non-existent.
[01:22:06]  All of these characters suck in their own ways, but Alex has to call Bush a Nazi for this, because he can't unpack things to recognize that the real motivating factor for his involvement with Thiessen was...
[01:22:16]  Their shared opposition to communism, which Alex agrees with.
[01:22:19]  If he has to unpack this and talk about Thason's history, which only opens Alex up to having to discuss how the political machine he'd supported to defeat communism grew out of control into outright fascism.
[01:22:31]  Yeah.
[01:22:31]  And that's probably not something Alex wants to get into.
[01:22:34]  I am loving, loving the irony.
[01:22:39]  The irony of a woman who is coming on this show to sell me a book about how great McCarthy was is now telling other people this is the nuttiest thing she's ever heard.
[01:22:50]  It is way less nutty to call Prescott Bush a Nazi than it is to say McCarthy was a good guy.
[01:22:57]  Yeah, I guess it's debatable.
[01:22:58]  Yeah.
[01:22:59]  So I think, though, that one of the things you'll notice if you listen to this whole thing is that they ultimately just, they're both wrong.
[01:23:07]  Uh, pretty consistently.
[01:23:10]  Anne is at least structurally making points.
[01:23:13]  Right.
[01:23:13]  So she's right in that sense.
[01:23:15]  Right.
[01:23:15]  But they're wrong about so much, but they both think that they're right.
[01:23:19]  We're at war right now.
[01:23:20]  This is no time to be looking for black helicopters.
[01:23:24]  Okay, let's put John on hold.
[01:23:25]  I think we ought to be concerned about finding these weapons of destruction before they end up in New York rather than running off on these...
[01:23:31]  You are, hey, you are a neocon, and you're out there shelling for the Trojan horse.
[01:23:37]  That is George Bush, who's a gun grabber, UN promoter, open borders.
[01:23:40]  I mean, the evidence, you know, the fruits on the tree, Ann, and we've been trying to be nice to you, and you've just denied things that are all over the mainstream news, many of them for 50 years, and you can't face up to the corruption of the Republican Party that's growing the size of the government.
[01:23:56]  We're conservatives.
[01:23:57]  We're not LaRoucheites over here, okay?
[01:23:59]  I think you are.
[01:24:00]  I think you are, too.
[01:24:03]  I believe you are LaRougeites, yes.
[01:24:05]  I mean, they're both wrong.
[01:24:06]  Alex thinks he's made a point.
[01:24:08]  He thinks that he's actually...
[01:24:11]  Demonstrated that Anne is somehow disconnected from reality.
[01:24:14]  Right.
[01:24:14]  And Anne is wrong because she's supporting these weapons of mass destruction.
[01:24:18]  Insane.
[01:24:18]  Her points are wrong.
[01:24:20]  These people are...
[01:24:21]  It's amazing.
[01:24:22]  It is like two people arguing over how the KKK should commit a genocide.
[01:24:27]  You know, like, no, no, no, no, you're wrong.
[01:24:29]  We should use a...
[01:24:30]  Like, what are you guys doing?
[01:24:32]  It is pretty strange.
[01:24:33]  Yeah.
[01:24:33]  So they go to break and Alex comes back and this is just pathetic.
[01:24:37]  I don't know about you, but Bush had better not sign that assault weapons ban.
[01:24:42]  Better not call for open borders.
[01:24:44]  I think that's top issues.
[01:24:46]  So perfect that it's the Pink Panther theme.
[01:24:48]  Yeah.
[01:24:49]  Because both of those things Bush didn't do.
[01:24:51]  Oh, man.
[01:24:53]  He's Clouseau with conspiracies.
[01:24:56]  It's nonsense.
[01:24:59]  So Alex starts getting into like 9-11.
[01:25:02]  Sure.
[01:25:02]  False flag stuff.
[01:25:03]  Retreating to comfortable territory.
[01:25:05]  Exactly.
[01:25:07]  Is a little confused.
[01:25:08]  Uh-oh.
[01:25:09]  Why is, according to the International Herald Tribune, why does the Justice Department have their people standing over witnesses in the 911 investigation and, quote, intimidating them?
[01:25:19]  By standing there and scowling at them?
[01:25:22]  Well, you're not, yeah.
[01:25:23]  Private meetings have got...
[01:25:24]  They're apparently easily intimidated.
[01:25:25]  That's why they're hijacking planes and flying them into buildings.
[01:25:29]  Oh, really?
[01:25:30]  Hey, why were some of those hijackers trained at the Pensacola Naval Air Station, according to MSNBC?
[01:25:36]  What?
[01:25:37]  Now you're saying we trained the hijackers?
[01:25:40]  What is this now?
[01:25:41]  Yeah, the military-industrial complex, according to Operation Northwoods, planned to carry out 911-style attacks.
[01:25:47]  Baltimore Sun, ABC Nightly News.
[01:25:50]  I don't know if you've heard of them.
[01:25:53]  You're just getting nuttier and nuttier.
[01:25:55]  Well, it's like the USS Liberty, which they now admit we've had Admiral Moore on, former chairman John Cheese's staff, he admits the government tried to sink the ship to blame it on Egypt.
[01:26:04]  Oh, that's Admiral Moore, though.
[01:26:07]  George Bush was considering having Mohammed Atta in a highly placed position in the federal government.
[01:26:13]  Not as good.
[01:26:14]  He was almost one of the hijackers.
[01:26:16]  Did you know that?
[01:26:17]  But he got away at the last minute.
[01:26:18]  Well, nine of the hijackers are still alive, and unfortunately for you, Ann, our audience is educated and aware of what you're up to, this whole spin.
[01:26:27]  What I'm up to is I'm going to talk about a book, and I'm getting a bunch of nut theories thrown at me.
[01:26:34]  Yeah, I came here to talk about how great and correct McCarthy was, and now I hear all these nutty conspiracy theories.
[01:26:41]  Listen, Dick, I came here to sell a book full of nutty theories.
[01:26:45]  I didn't come here to listen to your nutty theories.
[01:26:48]  Isn't that exactly what you're saying?
[01:26:50]  Basically.
[01:26:51]  I came here to lie my way.
[01:26:53]  But it's still delightful.
[01:26:54]  There's something about this, I think part of it is because it's in the past, and it's, you know, the past...

=== Funny Bullshit Salesmen (07:16) ===

[01:26:59]  It can't hurt us more than it already has.
[01:27:01]  Right, right, right.
[01:27:02]  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:27:03]  And so it's kind of fun to see her be annoyed and also be correct in her annoyance.
[01:27:10]  A little.
[01:27:10]  And also wrong.
[01:27:12]  About everything.
[01:27:13]  There's just layers.
[01:27:14]  It is nice to see these two dum-dums.
[01:27:20]  Really just get to the heart of why they're incompatible and why the right-wing grift is, you know, destined to eat itself alive.
[01:27:27]  Sure.
[01:27:28]  You know, it's because I'm selling my bullshit and I don't want to listen to your bullshit.
[01:27:34]  You know, and it's like, well, yeah, Alex is selling his bullshit and he doesn't want to listen to your bullshit.
[01:27:40]  Yeah, especially when your bullshit is, like, fairly contradictory.
[01:27:43]  Yeah, and you're both fucking stupid.
[01:27:46]  There's that.
[01:27:46]  So, it's just a going back and forth of people, and Ann Coulter gets to act like she's laughing at all of this shit, because it sounds more openly lunatic than what she's selling you, which is the same lunacy wrapped up in better words.
[01:28:01]  But she's got, like, a great life of privilege to get to after the phone calls.
[01:28:07]  That's true.
[01:28:08]  She'll go and meet up with a friend, have a cocktail, and talk about...
[01:28:11]  I was on the phone with this lunatic.
[01:28:12]  I was on these dicks.
[01:28:13]  Yeah.
[01:28:14]  Yep.
[01:28:14]  So, Alex...
[01:28:15]  One last call for Ann.
[01:28:18]  Spoiler alert, she does not get a chance to answer.
[01:28:21]  And then Alex treats her like a real pile of garbage to end the show.
[01:28:27]  I mean, look, it's rude, but also kind of funny.
[01:28:31]  Clint in Missouri.
[01:28:32]  Last caller for Ann Colfer.
[01:28:33]  Go ahead.
[01:28:35]  Go ahead, Clint.
[01:28:38]  Okay.
[01:28:39]  Clint's gone.
[01:28:40]  Go ahead, Clint.
[01:28:41]  Yeah, I just want to do...
[01:28:43]  Say that Ann had mentioned that Bush has to do certain things to get re-elected.
[01:28:47]  I think a lot of our perspectives are he should be more principled.
[01:28:53]  A president's duty is not getting elected.
[01:28:57]  There's more important things like preserving our Constitution.
[01:29:01]  Right now, the majority of Americans are more than willing to give away our freedoms.
[01:29:11]  Absolutely.
[01:29:11]  Thanks, Clint.
[01:29:12]  Thank you, Clint.
[01:29:13]  Ann Colter, we really appreciate you coming on the show, and we hope you'll talk more about the neocons, gun-grabbing, open borders, and blocking Dan Burton's committee, and signing on to UNESCO, and signing campaign finance reform, restricting the First Amendment.
[01:29:29]  You think that might be a good idea, Ann?
[01:29:31]  Lyndon LaRouche, luck in the next election.
[01:29:33]  Okay, hey, hey, have fun being a neocon Trojan horse, Ann.
[01:29:38]  Have fun being their little poster child, okay?
[01:29:41]  Hopefully you and your buddies can keep everybody in the dark long enough to get your new world order.
[01:29:44]  We know that's what it's all about.
[01:29:46]  I'm out of time, folks.
[01:29:48]  If you want to support this broadcast, don't buy her mindless book.
[01:29:52]  Just stuff that doesn't matter anymore.
[01:29:54]  Little side issues.
[01:29:55]  Expose the whole system.
[01:29:57]  Get my videos.
[01:29:58]  Pretty good.
[01:30:00]  Pretty sweet.
[01:30:01]  That's good stuff.
[01:30:02]  That's good stuff.
[01:30:03]  In that clip, I mean, there's three things that are amazing.
[01:30:06]  First is the complete...
[01:30:08]  You can't answer the question.
[01:30:10]  Nope.
[01:30:10]  That's supposed to be the last question for Anne.
[01:30:12]  Second, Anne jumping in with the...
[01:30:15]  I wish your candidate Lyndon LaRouche the best of luck in the next election.
[01:30:19]  That's a nice outro.
[01:30:21]  That's not bad.
[01:30:22]  Don't buy her fucking book.
[01:30:24]  Don't buy that mindless book.
[01:30:25]  Don't buy that shit drivel.
[01:30:27]  Don't buy this lady lying to you about McCarthy?
[01:30:31]  I think that Alex wanted that, like, don't buy her book to be way more earned than it was.
[01:30:37]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:30:38]  That was really a...
[01:30:39]  It sounded petulant.
[01:30:40]  Yeah, it sounded really, really childish.
[01:30:42]  Oh, yeah.
[01:30:43]  Like, it's just...
[01:30:46]  It's pretty funny, though.
[01:30:48]  I appreciate...
[01:30:50]  I think...
[01:30:51]  I'm sorry.
[01:30:52]  No, no, no, go for it.
[01:30:53]  I think that, like, this is a get for Alex.
[01:30:57]  At this point.
[01:30:57]  In 2003, Ann Coulter coming on his show is a big deal.
[01:31:00]  Huge.
[01:31:01]  I think he handled this poorly.
[01:31:04]  I think that Ann Coulter doesn't give a shit about who he is, so it might not matter, but this kind of behavior would definitely be like, if she cared, she has access to all sorts of very famous people that could be guests on Alex's show, and now will not be.
[01:31:20]  No.
[01:31:21]  Because the premise of the interview was supposed to be to promote her book.
[01:31:25]  And instead, he just said a bunch of dumb shit to her, annoyed her, and then at the end said, don't buy her book.
[01:31:31]  Yeah.
[01:31:32]  It's kind of not how you treat a guest.
[01:31:34]  I love both of them feeling bad about this.
[01:31:39]  I think she felt great.
[01:31:41]  I don't think she did.
[01:31:42]  I think at the end, she got a good snippy line in.
[01:31:46]  I think she got a good line in.
[01:31:48]  Then she's going to get a highball and have a great time.
[01:31:50]  I'm telling you.
[01:31:51]  I'm telling you.
[01:31:52]  I think she walked away from this thinking, I don't like what happened.
[01:31:57]  I like her feeling like that.
[01:31:58]  I'm sure she isn't thrilled.
[01:32:01]  Yes.
[01:32:01]  But I don't know if it matters.
[01:32:02]  I don't think it matters to her.
[01:32:04]  No, it doesn't matter to anybody who's super rich.
[01:32:06]  No, but I think Alex probably came away from this much more pissed off than she did.
[01:32:10]  Oh, yeah, totally.
[01:32:11]  Again, I like that, too.
[01:32:12]  I think he was actually mad.
[01:32:14]  She was a little bit annoyed and playing around with it.
[01:32:17]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:32:18]  I do think the laughing and being like, this black helicopter shit.
[01:32:23]  For sure.
[01:32:23]  You guys like, this is LaRouche nonsense.
[01:32:25]  For sure, for sure.
[01:32:26]  I think there was actually an amusement on her part.
[01:32:28]  Like, I have accidentally stumbled into this video show full of complete weirdos who are calling and asking me about prostitutes at Bohemian Grove.
[01:32:39]  I am amazed, amazed at people who will just agree to go on.
[01:32:44]  Yeah.
[01:32:45]  Just with no knowledge, don't know who that person is.
[01:32:49]  Yeah, it is strange.
[01:32:51]  I would predict that this is maybe one of the last high-profile interviews he gets for a while.
[01:32:56]  I would say so.
[01:32:57]  Because it does not.
[01:32:59]  It's not a good marketing tool for like, hey, come talk to me.
[01:33:03]  I will treat you well.
[01:33:05]  I know in 2003 or 2004 they didn't have group texts yet, but I'm sure she could still get on the phone pretty quick with a lot of people.
[01:33:14]  So at least in a day, there's hundreds of people who aren't going on Alex's show.
[01:33:19]  Well, it's possible.
[01:33:20]  But like I said, I think that she probably just got done with it and maybe wanted to tell a friend because it's funny.
[01:33:25]  That is funny.
[01:33:26]  As opposed to like...
[01:33:27]  I can't imagine that she thinks he's relevant.
[01:33:29]  No, that's true.
[01:33:31]  Like, if you have this kind of an interaction with somebody, first of all, you know that they aren't behaving as a gracious host.
[01:33:38]  Sure.
[01:33:39]  So probably you're like, this is an unprofessional asshole doing a radio show.
[01:33:43]  True.
[01:33:43]  They can't be that successful.
[01:33:45]  Possible.
[01:33:45]  And then you hear the ideas that are being expressed, and you're like, this is fringe nonsense.
[01:33:50]  Ugh.
[01:33:51]  Hey, maybe I gotta talk to my agent.
[01:33:54]  They fucked me.
[01:33:55]  Yeah, it must be.
[01:33:56]  Yeah.
[01:33:56]  Oh, boy.
[01:33:57]  Anyway, I enjoyed this a lot.

=== Daryl Rundis Joins (00:39) ===

[01:34:00]  I was really looking forward to this episode because of the tease of I got a big, slimy neocon.
[01:34:07]  And then it being Ann Coulter and it going so poorly.
[01:34:10]  So bad.
[01:34:11]  Just off the rails.
[01:34:12]  What fun.
[01:34:13]  That's great.
[01:34:13]  Yeah.
[01:34:14]  That's just great stuff.
[01:34:15]  Good, clean fun.
[01:34:16]  Absolutely.
[01:34:17]  And it's from 2003.
[01:34:18]  That's the best.
[01:34:19]  So, we'll be back.
[01:34:20]  But until then, we have a website.
[01:34:22]  We do.
[01:34:22]  It's knowledgefight.com.
[01:34:23]  Yep.
[01:34:23]  We're also on Twitter.
[01:34:25]  We are on Twitter.
[01:34:25]  It's at knowledgefight and I go to bed, Jordan.
[01:34:27]  Yep.
[01:34:27]  We'll be back.
[01:34:28]  But until then, I'm Neo.
[01:34:29]  I'm Leo.
[01:34:29]  I'm DZXCork.
[01:34:30]  I'm Daryl Rundis.
[01:34:31]  And now, here comes the sex robots.
[01:34:33]  Andy in Kansas.
[01:34:34]  You're on the air.
[01:34:35]  Thanks for holding.
[01:34:37]  Hello, Alex.
[01:34:38]  I'm a first-time caller.
[01:34:39]  I'm a huge fan.
[01:34:39]  I love your work.