Knowledge Fight - #574: May 28-29, 2003
Aired: 2021-07-07
Duration: 01:48:22


=== Happy Birthday Wishes (07:23) ===

[00:00:18]  I have great respect for Knowledge Fight.
[00:00:24]  Knowledge Fight.
[00:00:25]  I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys.
[00:00:29]  Knowledge fight.
[00:00:30]  Dan and Jordan.
[00:00:31]  Knowledge fight.
[00:00:34]  I need money.
[00:00:39]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:40]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:42]  Stop it.
[00:00:42]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:46]  It's time to pray.
[00:00:47]  Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
[00:00:48]  Thanks for holding us.
[00:00:49]  Hello, Alex.
[00:00:50]  I'm a first time caller.
[00:00:51]  I'm a huge fan.
[00:00:51]  I love your room.
[00:00:53]  Knowledge fight.
[00:00:55]  KnowledgeFight.com.
[00:00:57]  I love you.
[00:00:58]  Hey, everybody.
[00:01:00]  Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.
[00:01:01]  I'm Dan.
[00:01:01]  I'm Jordan.
[00:01:01]  We're a couple dudes like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
[00:01:05]  Oh, indeed we are, Dan.
[00:01:06]  Yup.
[00:01:07]  Dan.
[00:01:07]  Jordan.
[00:01:08]  Quick question.
[00:01:08]  What's up?
[00:01:09]  What's your bright spot?
[00:01:09]  My bright spot today, Jordan, is a callback to a bright spot of days past.
[00:01:15]  I was going to do laundry.
[00:01:16]  I went down to the laundry room and what should fly past me but a thing.
[00:01:20]  I thought it was a bat.
[00:01:21]  Right.
[00:01:21]  It was pretty early in the morning and I was like, maybe there's bats around.
[00:01:24]  Laundry rooms have bats.
[00:01:25]  That's science.
[00:01:26]  It's in a basement.
[00:01:27]  You gotta go down a set of stairs.
[00:01:28]  Just fact.
[00:01:28]  And I thought like, oh, bat.
[00:01:30]  Yeah.
[00:01:30]  And I looked and there were birds nesting underneath the staircase.
[00:01:35]  And it was, you know, I remember seeing that like a year ago.
[00:01:39]  Yeah.
[00:01:39]  It was really delightful.
[00:01:40]  It brought to mind feelings about the...
[00:01:44]  The pandemic waning, I guess, a little bit, or life returning to a little bit more of normalcy, and the birds are in on it, too.
[00:01:52]  Yeah, that is nice!
[00:01:54]  Was it the same birds?
[00:01:58]  No, it was in a different spot under the stairs, and it was clearly different birds.
[00:02:04]  Sure, sure.
[00:02:04]  I got to know these birds pretty well, and these were different birds.
[00:02:08]  I was going to say, it would be nice if you had a whole intergenerational thing starting in the laundry room.
[00:02:14]  I don't think generations of birds last a year.
[00:02:17]  I don't know how long birds live, but I think it's longer than a year.
[00:02:21]  It could be.
[00:02:22]  Yeah.
[00:02:24]  So what's your bright spot?
[00:02:25]  My bright spot, Dan, is DJ Danarchy has made me and us and all of us something very cool.
[00:02:33]  If you could, please.
[00:02:38]  God's damn wizard!
[00:02:40]  God's damn wizard!
[00:02:42]  The maracas begin to shake and they gradually shake faster and faster and faster until they get louder and louder and louder.
[00:02:50]  Yeah, this sounded like our theme song.
[00:02:51]  Hey, that's right!
[00:02:54]  We finally have a theme song for the podcast that will be coming out next week.
[00:02:59]  Oh, wow.
[00:03:00]  Very exciting.
[00:03:01]  The release date for your...
[00:03:02]  Is it all just going to come in one...
[00:03:03]  It's all going to come in one giant shot.
[00:03:05]  It's going to show up.
[00:03:07]  You'll be able to download it and listen to the whole thing.
[00:03:09]  And then if there's a second season, we will let you know.
[00:03:13]  Sure.
[00:03:14]  We'll have a theme song now.
[00:03:15]  Exactly.
[00:03:16]  It seems almost like we're obligated.
[00:03:18]  We'll see.
[00:03:19]  I'm not.
[00:03:20]  I didn't think so.
[00:03:23]  I'll probably do it if you do it, but I am certainly not obligated.
[00:03:28]  I am not good at acting or playing along with things.
[00:03:32]  You were great.
[00:03:34]  Thank you.
[00:03:34]  You were great, Dan.
[00:03:35]  I was fishing for compliments.
[00:03:36]  I know, and you caught something beautiful.
[00:03:39]  So, Jordan, today we are doing a little sneak snake episode.
[00:03:43]  We're in the past.
[00:03:44]  Okay.
[00:03:44]  We're talking about May 28th and 29th, 2003.
[00:03:49]  Okay.
[00:03:52]  I didn't know what to expect, going back to this, because time's a little confusing.
[00:03:57]  Sure.
[00:03:57]  And the last time we went back to the past, I found it to be a little bit stagnant, and I was a little bit worried.
[00:04:03]  I was like, I don't feel like there's any progress about things that I know are actually important for what happened at this point.
[00:04:09]  But today, business picks up a little bit.
[00:04:13]  Oh, okay.
[00:04:14]  And I'm very excited about a couple of things that happened that have nothing to do with how important, like these important stories from 2003, nothing to do with them.
[00:04:22]  That sounds right.
[00:04:23]  But there's one caller in particular that blew my mind, and I spent a couple hours researching this call, and I'm very excited to talk about it.
[00:04:32]  And we'll get to that.
[00:04:33]  But before we do, Jordan, we gotta take a little moment to say thank you to some folks who have signed up.
[00:04:38]  And our new wonks.
[00:04:41]  Yay, that's a good idea.
[00:04:42]  That was me vamping while I pulled up my sheet.
[00:04:45]  So first, Nick fucking Gage.
[00:04:48]  Thank you so much.
[00:04:48]  You're now a policy wonk.
[00:04:49]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:04:50]  Thanks, Nick fucking Gage.
[00:04:52]  This Nick also asked me to do the entire Steiner math promo.
[00:04:57]  Okay, well.
[00:04:58]  And I unfortunately could not do that.
[00:05:00]  It's way too long.
[00:05:01]  I was going to say, I've got a clock up, but...
[00:05:04]  Next, Nessa the Cryptid.
[00:05:06]  Thank you so much.
[00:05:06]  You're now a policy wonk.
[00:05:07]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:05:09]  Thanks, Nessa!
[00:05:09]  Thank you.
[00:05:10]  Next, bad uniball parachutist zero-sum.
[00:05:13]  Thank you so much.
[00:05:13]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:05:14]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:05:16]  Thank you!
[00:05:17]  And now it is time to get deep.
[00:05:19]  Giving someone life is giving someone death.
[00:05:24]  You could say that...
[00:05:28]  Life is death.
[00:05:30]  You could.
[00:05:30]  It's true.
[00:05:31]  So, Matty, happy birthday.
[00:05:32]  Happy birthday.
[00:05:33]  M-A-D-D-Y, Matty.
[00:05:34]  Matty.
[00:05:35]  Also, I apologize.
[00:05:38]  I think it's Goral.
[00:05:39]  Goral.
[00:05:41]  This is one of those names that has an O that has a slash through it.
[00:05:45]  I don't know what to do with that letter.
[00:05:47]  Is that Gourl?
[00:05:48]  Could be.
[00:05:49]  I never remember with the slash.
[00:05:51]  That's not one of the characters that I'm aware of how to pronounce.
[00:05:56]  There's a number of sort of non-English...
[00:06:00]  Symbols, yeah.
[00:06:01]  Yeah, that I'm fine with.
[00:06:02]  Totally.
[00:06:03]  That one I don't know what to do with.
[00:06:04]  I stare at it and I'm like, I do...
[00:06:07]  The A with the little spiral on top?
[00:06:10]  No.
[00:06:10]  Just get it out of here.
[00:06:11]  I don't understand it.
[00:06:12]  This one's from Torstein in Norway.
[00:06:14]  Wanted to wish possibly Goral a happy birthday.
[00:06:18]  Happy birthday!
[00:06:19]  Also, Michael T., happy birthday.
[00:06:21]  Anna wanted us to give you a shout-out.
[00:06:23]  Happy birthday.
[00:06:23]  Happy birthday.
[00:06:24]  Next, DW Static.
[00:06:25]  Also having a happy birthday.
[00:06:27]  Happy birthday, D.W. Having a happy birthday.
[00:06:29]  Also, Joseph sent a message.
[00:06:31]  He's got a birthday, but instead of wishing a happy birthday to himself, he wanted to spread this to all the community of wonks and wish everyone else in the world, I guess, even if it's not your birthday, have the good feelings of someone wishing you a happy birthday.
[00:06:45]  That's a good one.
[00:06:47]  I like that.
[00:06:48]  I like that.
[00:06:49]  Very nice and communal.
[00:06:52]  So thank you.
[00:06:53]  I guess.
[00:06:53]  That's right.
[00:06:54]  That's why I think we should celebrate the way that The Giver did with Lois Lowry.
[00:07:01]  Everybody has the same birthday once a year.
[00:07:04]  Everybody, same birthday.
[00:07:05]  Move on with the rest of your year.
[00:07:06]  Just take care of it.
[00:07:06]  This is birthday day.
[00:07:07]  This is birthday.
[00:07:08]  The end.
[00:07:09]  I like it.
[00:07:10]  Might be functional.
[00:07:11]  Yeah, we'll see.
[00:07:12]  So, Jordan, we're going to get into business on this episode, but before we do, here is an Out of Context drop from today's episode.
[00:07:18]  No grandchildren for you!
[00:07:20]  Alex Jones is the grandchildren Nazi.
[00:07:21]  Still no grandchildren!
[00:07:24]  He's the grandchildren Nazi.
[00:07:25]  No grandchildren for you.

=== Government Corruption Debate (15:16) ===

[00:07:27]  I know, but it's funny that we're in the present day on our last episode talking about how there's no way for your next generation to grow into adults and then we go back in time and they're still...
[00:07:37]  There's gonna be no grandchildren!
[00:07:38]  It is something of a preoccupation for Alex.
[00:07:41]  Seems like it.
[00:07:42]  Yeah, but it's not being formulated in the same way that they will all not grow up.
[00:07:48]  Well, it's good to know there's a lot of ways to get to the same destination, I suppose.
[00:07:54]  So we start on May 28th, and I will say that the beginning of this episode, a little bit slow.
[00:08:00]  I'm lying.
[00:08:01]  It heats up fast.
[00:08:02]  Okay.
[00:08:03]  Got me...
[00:08:04]  Very interested, very quickly.
[00:08:06]  Okay, okay.
[00:08:07]  I'm for the death penalty, too.
[00:08:09]  I believe that a serial killer or whatever should be executed.
[00:08:14]  I mean, that's an eye for an eye.
[00:08:16]  That makes sense.
[00:08:17]  It's something that needs to be done.
[00:08:19]  But you have the big criminals running the government.
[00:08:22]  How can you trust them to mete out the death penalty?
[00:08:24]  So death penalty moratorium considered in North Carolina, a blue-collar town known for its furniture factories, law and order conservatism, hardly seems the kind of place that would call for a moratorium on the death penalty.
[00:08:39]  But people don't trust the government.
[00:08:41]  So how can you trust the government to hand out the death sentences?
[00:08:44]  I mean, certainly you're for the death penalty, most of you.
[00:08:47]  So am I. But in Soviet Russia, would you be for Stalin handing out death sentences?
[00:08:53]  Immediately, I was like, I am so fascinated.
[00:08:57]  I got completely thrown for a curveball here.
[00:09:01]  Is this a nuanced take?
[00:09:03]  It's not.
[00:09:06]  For Alex?
[00:09:07]  No.
[00:09:08]  It's something that's trying to have the appearance of a nuanced take that actually isn't.
[00:09:12]  And honestly, I think this is the first time I've ever heard Alex give a definitive position on the death penalty.
[00:09:17]  Yeah.
[00:09:17]  Up till this point, I'd gathered from context clues that he didn't support the policy, given that many of his other ideas that appear to be based on principles have to do with the government not doing things to individuals.
[00:09:29]  Right, right.
[00:09:30]  The position he's putting forth is absolutely the definition of not having a position.
[00:09:37]  Right, right, right, right.
[00:09:55]  whether or not that is actually true.
[00:09:56]  Right, right, right.
[00:09:57]  Still other positions can be based on ethics, where there's an intrinsic moral character to sentencing someone to death, and that consideration guides your position.
[00:10:05]  And then there are sets of political beliefs that could include a strong position regarding the relationship between the individual and the state, which would impact your views on the death penalty in obvious ways.
[00:10:16]  Alex seems to only be operating on the most elementary level here.
[00:10:20]  He's appealing to an emotional desire for an eye to be taken for an eye.
[00:10:24]  This is really unimpressive stuff from him, and I once again regret that I gave him more credit than he deserves in terms of this position.
[00:10:32]  The other cowardly thing Alex is doing here is that he's claiming that he's for the death penalty, but not when the government is corrupt.
[00:10:38]  The level of corruptness of the government is a completely arbitrary and subjective measurement for Alex, so this actually means nothing.
[00:10:45]  According to his feelings, the George W. Bush government, and obviously the Clinton one before it, they are too corrupt to responsibly hand out death sentences.
[00:10:53]  but it would be impossible to formalize this into any meaningful scale that you could judge things on.
[00:11:00]  Literally anyone could just counter his argument by saying that they believe that the Bush administration was not too corrupt to hand out death sentences, and Alex would have nowhere to go.
[00:11:09]  He could rattle off instances of governmental corruption to try and build to a point, but that still doesn't handle the subjectivity of his assessment of which government is or isn't too corrupt to sentence people to die.
[00:11:20]  It makes no sense.
[00:11:22]  Was he...
[00:11:22]  I didn't realize that it was in specific...
[00:11:25]  With the level of corruption of the government.
[00:11:27]  I thought it was more of a blanket, like, you wouldn't trust the government to do that just because there's a good chance they are corrupt in some fashion or another, because they always have been.
[00:11:36]  No.
[00:11:36]  So he's like, in specific, there are certain governments...
[00:11:40]  Really?
[00:11:40]  We'll get more into this.
[00:11:41]  Yes.
[00:11:41]  Okay, well now that doesn't make any fucking sense.
[00:11:44]  No.
[00:11:44]  By presenting his position this way, Alex is effectively making it seem like he's taking a position when he's actually not.
[00:11:49]  He's in favor of the death penalty, but only when it comes to some imaginary ideal government that could be in place.
[00:11:55]  By planting his flag there, he can manage to not alienate either side of the debate while getting each to think that he's actually on their side, which is a bit weaselly.
[00:12:03]  There's an additional problem here, too, and that's that there's no reason why the logic Alex is using should apply exclusively to punishments involving the death penalty.
[00:12:10]  If your opposition to the state imposing a death penalty has to do with the state being too corrupt to responsibly give out that sentence, then it should stand to reason that they're also too corrupt to responsibly incarcerate somebody.
[00:12:21]  The reasoning that Alex is using is that the state is too corrupt to responsibly incarcerate somebody.
[00:12:23]  And the way he's presenting it, I understand where you're coming from.
[00:12:34]  And I actually think that it does get closer to what the point should be.
[00:12:39]  You're saying that by the very nature of it, the government is too corrupt to...
[00:12:44]  To mete out the death penalty.
[00:12:45]  Yes.
[00:12:45]  And I think that that would be a position that you could call, I guess, functionally...
[00:12:54]  Anti-death penalty.
[00:12:56]  I think that that would have much less problems than what Alex is saying.
[00:12:59]  Because he's not saying that.
[00:13:02]  He's saying that if there were somebody in charge who was cool, then the death penalty would be good, because murderers deserve to die.
[00:13:11]  Yeah.
[00:13:12]  No, I mean, if you wanted to get into it, like, what's the level of...
[00:13:17]  I mean, yeah, Nazi war criminal.
[00:13:21]  Maybe the death penalty's fine there, I guess.
[00:13:24]  That's an argument.
[00:13:26]  Whether or not you can trust the government to single out individuals is an obvious open and closed question from all of human history.
[00:13:34]  The government can't do it without eventually abusing it and killing a bunch of people that they just want gone.
[00:13:40]  I think what's going on is that you're giving more credence to what Alex is saying than it merits.
[00:13:46]  Yes, I'm giving far more credence.
[00:13:48]  You're reading into this and trying to find a way for it to work when it doesn't.
[00:13:51]  No.
[00:13:52]  We'll see more as we go along.
[00:13:55]  I always thought there would be a blanket opposition to the death penalty from Alex because of the relationship between individual and state that is implied through all of his...
[00:14:07]  And I was surprised when he says that he's for the death penalty.
[00:14:12]  I was also surprised when I heard this.
[00:14:15]  Look, it's like drugs.
[00:14:16]  I'm against drugs, okay?
[00:14:19]  Other than caffeine.
[00:14:20]  I do drink coffee.
[00:14:21]  But I think illegal drugs are bad news.
[00:14:23]  So are big pharma's pharmacological, over-the-counter, and prescription garbage.
[00:14:29]  But at the same time, we're forced to decriminalize because the government ships the drugs in to create the crisis.
[00:14:35]  The bigger the war on drugs gets, the more drugs, the more people in prison.
[00:14:38]  That's a fact, people.
[00:14:40]  That is not how I've heard Alex explain his opposition to drug laws at other points in his career that I've listened to.
[00:14:47]  Every other time I've heard this discussed, the issue is that Alex is not in favor of drugs, but you have the right to take whatever you want.
[00:14:53]  It was literally one of the main selling points of Ron Paul to people on the left, and one of the major tools Alex tried to use to insist that he wasn't a right-winger.
[00:15:01]  He was cool!
[00:15:02]  He thought drugs should be legal!
[00:15:03]  You have the right!
[00:15:04]  You're an individual!
[00:15:05]  You're an adult!
[00:15:05]  Freedom!
[00:15:06]  Totally.
[00:15:06]  He clearly doesn't actually believe that.
[00:15:09]  His opposition to drug laws is purely a consideration of trying to break up the cartel of globalists who he believes ship in all the drugs.
[00:15:15]  Legalization is in essence a strategic move against the globalists, not something that Alex supports because of the political belief that adults should be able to use drugs if they want to, which is the way that he presents it pretty regularly.
[00:15:27]  This is super weird, man.
[00:15:29]  I'm like five minutes into this episode and already Alex has explained two of his positions on things that I thought he was pretty rational about and shown that his positions are all wrong.
[00:15:38]  I'm starting to question if there are any positions that he and I would agree on.
[00:15:44]  Nope, can't think of any.
[00:15:46]  No.
[00:15:46]  I don't think so.
[00:15:47]  No.
[00:15:48]  Even when you agree, he's wrong about it somehow.
[00:15:51]  I hold out that last bit of hope that somehow the conversation about civil asset forfeiture won't somehow turn out to be his position on that is based in some kind of alien fear or something.
[00:16:05]  I'm more like, we need to get way down on a base level of you guys in a room with a mediator just being like...
[00:16:12]  Who's got the best pizza?
[00:16:13]  Just, like, start there.
[00:16:15]  No, that's even too...
[00:16:16]  Can you even agree on it?
[00:16:17]  That's even too murky.
[00:16:18]  The way we don't do it is, is this green?
[00:16:20]  Is this green?
[00:16:21]  Yes, that's a good point.
[00:16:23]  No, nothing.
[00:16:25]  Just pure is or is not.
[00:16:28]  Yeah.
[00:16:28]  So, like I was saying, about the execution thing, the death penalty, Alex talks a little bit more about his feelings, and this is where it kind of gets into, like, alright.
[00:16:39]  I can kind of see what you're saying, but it's still incredibly stupid.
[00:16:46]  But you need to have massive evidence to do it.
[00:16:50]  There need to be strong rules in place.
[00:16:52]  But no, there should not be a federal death penalty, ladies and gentlemen.
[00:16:55]  It's unconstitutional.
[00:16:57]  It's dangerous.
[00:16:58]  You don't want a central government having that power.
[00:17:01]  Here's an interesting statistic that I'd like Alex to chew on.
[00:17:05]  Maybe you know the answer to this.
[00:17:06]  I'm not sure if you do.
[00:17:07]  How many people were executed by the federal government during the eight years that Obama was in office?
[00:17:11]  Do you know that?
[00:17:12]  Yup, zero.
[00:17:13]  From 1958 to 2001, only four people were executed by the federal government, one of whom was Timothy McVeigh.
[00:17:20]  Three of these came during George W. Bush's presidency, but none after March 2003, so at the point when Alex is complaining about federal executions, he's talking about something that won't happen again for over 17 years.
[00:17:32]  And then Trump became president, and 13 people were executed by the federal government, and I don't think I ever heard Alex bring it up as a problem.
[00:17:40]  No, that's because we finally had a government that wasn't corrupt.
[00:17:44]  Right?
[00:17:44]  Exactly.
[00:17:45]  See, this is kind of why I get the sense that this is, oh, if there's the right person in charge, I don't think this is actually a problem.
[00:17:54]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:55]  Because it became a giant issue during Trump's presidency.
[00:17:59]  You would hope.
[00:17:59]  The shift in tone.
[00:18:01]  Yeah.
[00:18:08]  Yeah.
[00:18:08]  Was stark.
[00:18:09]  Insane.
[00:18:09]  And the fact that it wasn't a major breaking point for Alex, if this is actually what his position is rooted in, that, oh, it should only be states doing it.
[00:18:19]  Then that's, I don't know.
[00:18:21]  I don't know if that makes sense, and I don't trust it.
[00:18:23]  It doesn't, that idea of the different, that federal government shouldn't be able to, but state government should, that's so stupid, I can't even breathe.
[00:18:32]  So, there have been few federal executions for Trump for many years.
[00:18:40]  But conversely, according to analysis from USA Facts, between 1977 and 2018, there were 1,490 executions carried out.
[00:18:53]  ...
[00:19:02]  particularly Texas, carry out the vast majority of executions.
[00:19:05]  And Alex is saying that he's fine with that, which makes absolutely no sense based on what he's pretending to base his positions on earlier.
[00:19:11]  If he doesn't believe the federal government should be able to sentence people to death because the government can be corrupt, it's absolutely idiotic to pretend that the same concern doesn't exist in slightly lower levels of governmental organization.
[00:19:23]  Being opposed to the death penalty, but only on the federal level, is the very definition of a meaningless position.
[00:19:28]  It only becomes more meaningless when you explicitly support state executions and you live in Texas, the state with the government that seems most interested in killing convicts.
[00:19:38]  It's a downright farce when you also go on to support Donald Trump, the president who presided over 13 federal executions, a total reached in four years that surpasses the number of federal executions that have been carried out for the preceding 67 years combined.
[00:19:52]  My point is that Alex's political beliefs are idiotic and they're not based on anything.
[00:19:56]  But, at very least, this kind of brings things into focus.
[00:20:00]  You know, at least you can kind of get a sense, because he's given us this little piece of information, it's just a states' rights kind of argument that doesn't have anything to do with ethics, morality, or even opposition or support for the death penalty.
[00:20:14]  Okay.
[00:20:15]  It's...
[00:20:17]  Meaningless.
[00:20:18]  I mean, well, because here's a big problem.
[00:20:20]  If you want to abolish the death penalty in Texas, in Alex's eyes, what it should do is secede, then it will be its own federal government and will no longer be able to perform executions.
[00:20:34]  Wow.
[00:20:34]  Yeah, and then I guess the state of Austin would have to choose.
[00:20:38]  Exactly!
[00:20:38]  They would have to hire their own executioner.
[00:20:40]  But then Austin would have to secede.
[00:20:42]  That is such a fucking stupid thing to say.
[00:20:45]  It is beyond...
[00:20:46]  I mean, wow.
[00:20:48]  Yeah.
[00:20:48]  It's interesting to me because he just hates the federal government.
[00:20:52]  Yeah.
[00:20:52]  That's it.
[00:20:53]  He just hates the federal government so much that he's willing to accept how many probably innocent people are being killed in the state of Texas by the government.
[00:21:02]  Yeah, tons.
[00:21:04]  I don't understand this.
[00:21:10]  One of the things that I find most remarkable about it is that I could have listened to hundreds and hundreds of hours of Alex's show and still have this be, oh, I had the baseline position that you had wrong.
[00:21:24]  I had way too generous of an assumption.
[00:21:27]  Because I've heard him talk about not being in favor of the death penalty.
[00:21:31]  I just didn't realize that maybe it was rooted in something that's really stupid.
[00:21:36]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:21:38]  I mean, there's just...
[00:21:40]  Yeah, the only way to carry out the death penalty in Alex's eyes is if there is a, I suppose, philosopher king who's choosing each and every individual person based upon God's orders.
[00:21:52]  And when we talk about philosophers, we're talking about Trump.
[00:21:55]  Donald Trump.
[00:21:56]  Donald that fucking Trump.
[00:21:57]  Yep.
[00:21:58]  So, at this point, the process and policy of debathification is in place.
[00:22:03]  Right.
[00:22:04]  And Alex still is not addressing that or dealing with it in any way, which will end up being, I think, a gigantic thing he was wrong about.
[00:22:13]  Yeah.
[00:22:13]  And here is another thing vis-a-vis the Iraq War that Alex is very wrong about.
[00:22:18]  I want to take calls on a bunch of subjects today.
[00:22:21]  They haven't found weapons of mass destruction, but don't worry.
[00:22:25]  They're going to find some here pretty soon and say, see, we told you so.

=== Penal Colony Dilemma (15:39) ===

[00:22:30]  I can see from what they're doing.
[00:22:32]  That's the propaganda that they're setting up.
[00:22:35]  That's the play they're running on us right now.
[00:22:39]  Now, in 2021, looking back, I do not believe they did find...
[00:22:44]  Yeah, you know, that's Alex almost underestimating the government.
[00:22:49]  That's Alex being like, well, you know, they wouldn't just straight up lie us into a war, right?
[00:22:56]  Yeah, I mean, like, if his ideas were correct about how the globalists operate and their level of control over everything, that's exactly what would have happened, because he's writing that novel.
[00:23:08]  Yeah, because that would have been the way that they are like, see, we proved it, because we set it up the whole time.
[00:23:13]  Instead of him really not grasping that they could just lie us into a war, which seems weird for a guy whose job is to turn lies into money.
[00:23:24]  Yeah.
[00:23:26]  Well, that conversation, though, about what you need to do or how you should respond to the reality of the Iraq War and the lead-up to it...
[00:23:38]  That lie isn't easily monetized.
[00:23:41]  It's not super easily turned into, and that's why you need to buy my tapes.
[00:23:45]  Right, right, right.
[00:23:46]  That's fair.
[00:23:46]  That's fair.
[00:23:47]  This is.
[00:23:48]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:23:49]  The government is operating with complete impunity and lying to your faces about starting a war for this reason.
[00:23:56]  Buy my pills.
[00:23:57]  No, that's like, let's do something about that.
[00:24:00]  To be fair, Alex isn't selling pills at this point, but what it is is kind of like...
[00:24:06]  Ah, here is this science fiction conspiracy intrigue spy novel that's going on.
[00:24:13]  And if you read all my information, you'll be able to crack the code.
[00:24:16]  Right, right, right.
[00:24:17]  And then we'll be able to transcend it.
[00:24:18]  That's the sale that he's offering.
[00:24:21]  Yeesh.
[00:24:21]  So I think that these two things, if you were to listen to this episode, one of the things you would definitely take away from it is that this position on drugs and this position on the death penalty...
[00:24:32]  Are things that Alex really wants to take calls about.
[00:24:35]  I think it's a slow news day for him.
[00:24:37]  I think he's trying to solicit calls.
[00:24:40]  Now, at the same time, I don't know if I can get a sense that these are fictional versions of his positions.
[00:24:48]  Like, I don't think he's saying these things to try and antagonize people like someone might on a shitty call-in talk show.
[00:24:57]  Right, right, right, right.
[00:24:58]  It does seem like, oh, this makes sense that you...
[00:25:01]  I could believe that.
[00:25:02]  It's just stupider than I thought your positions were.
[00:25:04]  Yeah.
[00:25:05]  And so he takes calls, and this one guy who calls in, he wants to sort of distinguish.
[00:25:10]  When we're talking about drugs, we're talking about, like, not weed, right?
[00:25:15]  Sure.
[00:25:16]  No, no, no, no.
[00:25:17]  And Alex is not chill.
[00:25:19]  I agree with you that cocaine, heroin, crack, methamphetamines, I do agree with you that all those drugs are bad.
[00:25:26]  And all those drugs that you'll notice are synthetically made by humans.
[00:25:31]  Now, marijuana, I don't consider to be personally a drug.
[00:25:34]  And I think that's very important for people to understand that a lot of the drug laws, as they were put down at time past, were not really made to stop the drugs.
[00:25:43]  Well, sir, let me stop you.
[00:25:45]  This whole line, and I agree with some of what you're going to say, and what you've said, but look.
[00:25:52]  Nightshade grows naturally.
[00:25:53]  It'll kill you if you eat it.
[00:25:55]  Too much of it.
[00:25:56]  Wow.
[00:25:58]  Cyanide shows up naturally.
[00:26:00]  Good point.
[00:26:00]  And that'll kill you.
[00:26:01]  So this line that marijuana isn't a drug is a joke.
[00:26:04]  This kind of feels like trolling.
[00:26:05]  You got me.
[00:26:06]  Yeah.
[00:26:07]  Well, with an argument that good, nothing I can say against that.
[00:26:11]  Yeah.
[00:26:12]  Wow.
[00:26:13]  I feel like from Alex's branding that he wants to put forth about himself.
[00:26:17]  He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wants to be quibbling about whether or not weed's a drug when he's talking about being against drugs.
[00:26:25]  I think weed grows and it's, you know, it's not really that much of a drug.
[00:26:28]  Oh yeah?
[00:26:29]  Well, did you know poisons exist?
[00:26:31]  They grow.
[00:26:32]  Aha!
[00:26:33]  Now everything's illegal!
[00:26:34]  Smash cut to close to the present day in Alex's smoking blunts on Joe Rogan's show.
[00:26:41]  Yes, exactly.
[00:26:41]  You fucking hypocritical asshole.
[00:26:44]  Oh, look, I like this tobacco.
[00:26:47]  Oh man.
[00:26:47]  What a jerk.
[00:26:48]  Yeah, he definitely cut him off before he said...
[00:26:51]  You know, these drugs were illegalized because of, and then the answer to that was going to be criminalizing underrepresented groups in government, especially racism in Portland.
[00:27:00]  He does bring that up a little bit, this caller.
[00:27:05]  But he also, this caller, brings up the death penalty and Alex's position on it.
[00:27:11]  And this caller has an interesting reason to be against the death penalty.
[00:27:15]  He's coming from a utilitarian perspective.
[00:27:17]  He believes that the death penalty is not a deterrent.
[00:27:21]  I want to say, I guess another point, I see myself being against the death penalty just because of the fact that I really don't see it as a detractor from violence.
[00:27:29]  I could see it...
[00:27:29]  Oh, yes it is.
[00:27:30]  It is an incredible deterrent.
[00:27:33]  The death penalty is a good thing if it's done by the states or locally, not federally.
[00:27:40]  And now you can't believe anything this federal government hands down because of all the DNA fraud they've been involved in.
[00:27:46]  That's my point.
[00:27:47]  We've got to get rid of the federal death penalty because this government can't be trusted.
[00:27:50]  I guess Alex got his wish.
[00:27:52]  I mean, from the moment he said those words, there were literally zero federal executions until his chosen god-king Trump came into office and started wantonly killing people.
[00:28:00]  Yeah, I really wish he had gotten the death penalty abolished at the federal level.
[00:28:05]  Also, consistently, research has shown that there's no discernible deterrent effect in having a death penalty.
[00:28:11]  Statistically, violent crime and murder rates are lower in states that do not have death penalties, and a 2018 study reported on Death Penalty Info found that countries...
[00:28:23]  The study looked at murder rates for 10 years after 11 countries got rid of capital punishment, and they found that six of them had lower rates all 10 years.
[00:28:34]  Four had one or two years above the baseline and then saw a downward trend underneath the previous level.
[00:28:40]  Only the country of Georgia had a higher murder rate after, and explaining exactly why that might be the case is beyond me or this study.
[00:28:47]  Anyway, the point here is that no credible data that would back up Alex's conjecture that the death penalty is a good deterrent for crime exists.
[00:28:54]  It's not a good deterrent, Dan.
[00:28:56]  It's an incredible deterrent.
[00:28:57]  According to Alex.
[00:28:58]  It's almost like you can't believe how good a deterrent it is.
[00:29:02]  It feels like it would be, since you'd think that people would be less likely to commit crimes if they knew they might get killed for them, but that feeling is not based in reality.
[00:29:10]  According to the CDC's numbers, the states with the three highest death rates from homicide in 2019 were Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama.
[00:29:17]  All three of these states have active death penalties.
[00:29:20]  This shouldn't be the case if what Alex is saying is true, but it's not because he's not living in the real world.
[00:29:25]  Yeah, it seems like the death penalty exists almost to justify an emotional need in...
[00:29:33]  I guess voters, you know?
[00:29:35]  Well, and I think that that's what you see when you hear Alex talking at the beginning.
[00:29:39]  Like, his support for the death penalty comes out of the emotional appeal to people deserve to die.
[00:29:45]  And I think that that is the lowest level of reasoning that you can approach the situation from.
[00:29:50]  Other than, I guess, randomness.
[00:29:52]  That's the lowest level.
[00:29:54]  Let's flip a coin.
[00:29:55]  Oh, maybe!
[00:29:56]  Appealing to emotion of, like, I think that this person deserves to die because they committed this crime is...
[00:30:03]  It is not a well-thought-through position, and obviously, people's feelings are different about different crimes, and you'd get yourself in a lot of trouble if everything was organized that way.
[00:30:14]  That does seem to be what Alex is basing it on.
[00:30:17]  This caller has a slightly more evolved position than Alex, and Alex is telling them that they're wrong.
[00:30:23]  Right.
[00:30:24]  Yeah, no, I mean, it is that kind of feedback loop of, yes, it is the most base...
[00:30:30]  The most base form of reasoning is that appeal to an emotion of, this person did bad, bad happens to this person now.
[00:30:37]  And that's why so many prosecutors and elected attorney positions are fucking running on those, like, look at how tough and look at how cruel I have been.
[00:30:48]  Because that appeals to that emotional base, and it's...
[00:30:51]  Law and order.
[00:30:53]  Yeah, it's how we get to where we are, is they can exploit the lowest form of reasoning to only enact worse.
[00:31:02]  God!
[00:31:03]  That sucks!
[00:31:04]  Yeah, because I think that the other thing, too, that is part and parcel with that is that the appeal to that emotion of this person deserves this because they did this crime is also an appeal to, like, your feelings of security and stability.
[00:31:19]  Sure.
[00:31:19]  Because if you're the person who's hearing a politician be like, I'm tough on crime, really how it hits you and how you experience it isn't so much about, like, they deserve this.
[00:31:29]  It's...
[00:31:29]  I get the feeling that I will be safe from crime because this person is taking care of those things.
[00:31:35]  Yes, the bad people who get bad done to them.
[00:31:38]  Yeah.
[00:31:39]  And I think that that security is an artificial emotional crutch that Alex is selling to.
[00:31:47]  You bet.
[00:31:48]  So these callers are not great.
[00:31:51]  Alex has another caller who's, hey man, I got another idea about what we do about crime.
[00:31:56]  All right.
[00:31:57]  You know, America is the most technologically advanced nation on the planet, yet we still engage in barbarity and savagery.
[00:32:06]  You know, like, I figure that you should take the criminals, once it's been proven that they're criminals, they're the communities, vile acts or whatever, put them on an island with their own kind.
[00:32:18]  And, you know, never let them off.
[00:32:20]  You know, that's an idea that's been tried before.
[00:32:24]  Where?
[00:32:25]  And I certainly think that if someone is convicted, take these people and put them on an island, put the violent offenders together, let them enjoy their own type, their own type of hate.
[00:32:35]  Exactly.
[00:32:36]  What?
[00:32:36]  Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[00:32:37]  I was with this guy until he got the island idea.
[00:32:41]  I think we should send all of our criminals around the world to one island, perhaps a continent even, a big island, huge island, just send them all there, and I'm sure it'll never come back.
[00:32:54]  No.
[00:32:55]  I feel like this guy had some points that, you know, like we have a barbaric system in place.
[00:33:01]  I'm listening.
[00:33:02]  People should be given due process and make sure that they're guilty before being punished.
[00:33:08]  Yeah, I'm with you.
[00:33:08]  Send them to an island.
[00:33:10]  Oh, boy.
[00:33:11]  Here's what I think we should do.
[00:33:13]  Restart the state of Georgia!
[00:33:15]  See, I feel like that clip is a really good tell that Alex isn't coming in with any real position that has an application in the real world, because in the modern day, the idea of creating a penal colony is stupid.
[00:33:27]  If he just wants people to call in and discuss how they'd like to punish criminals, I guess that's fine, but it is not a productive use of time.
[00:33:35]  It does seem like everybody's having a little bit of a fantasy, like, here's how I would punish criminals.
[00:33:40]  All right, now you think the death penalty's a good idea.
[00:33:43]  What I would do is I would fill their room with cupcakes and then cover their hands in plastic bags and open their mouths real wide and they would eat one cupcake every day.
[00:33:53]  See, now that's interesting.
[00:33:55]  That's how you solve crimes.
[00:33:57]  You drive someone nuts.
[00:33:57]  You drive someone insane!
[00:33:59]  This caller does not have an idea that that is quite as innovative as your approach to criminal justice, but this one would not.
[00:34:06]  I think the state should only have the power of death, and I think it's like no quarter, no half measures.
[00:34:12]  If somebody's vile and wicked enough...
[00:34:15]  Then you have to put them to death.
[00:34:16]  When you put them in prison, all that does is create a situation where, oh, that's merciful, it's okay to put somebody in prison because they walked on the grass.
[00:34:24]  They put nonviolent people in prison, they come out hardened thugs, it's a historical fact.
[00:34:29]  Exactly.
[00:34:30]  I, too, feel like there are too many people in prison, but I strongly disagree with this entire conversation.
[00:34:35]  This is an unhinged position that would not stand up to the smallest amount of scrutiny.
[00:34:40]  So, if I were talking to this guy as a guy who was, like, hosting a radio show where you're taking calls on a subject, I have a couple questions that I would start off with.
[00:34:48]  Alright, let's start this way.
[00:34:49]  Here's my job.
[00:34:51]  Okay.
[00:34:52]  I think the death penalty should be for everything.
[00:34:55]  Well, where's the line on when someone's bad enough that you gotta kill them?
[00:35:00]  Uh, did they step on my grass?
[00:35:02]  No, apparently he's not for that.
[00:35:05]  Okay.
[00:35:05]  But, like, what offense would qualify someone for the state to commit?
[00:35:10]  All violent crimes.
[00:35:12]  So, okay.
[00:35:13]  Interesting.
[00:35:14]  Like, what about assault?
[00:35:16]  Like, what if I just came up to you and I punched you?
[00:35:19]  Well, you gotta die.
[00:35:21]  That's vile.
[00:35:22]  I don't know, man.
[00:35:24]  I feel...
[00:35:25]  And hands should be chopped off for property theft.
[00:35:27]  If we're gonna be brutal, I'm going for it, man.
[00:35:30]  No, no, because he's saying that the state should not have the power to do anything except kill.
[00:35:35]  What is this deal?
[00:35:37]  I don't know.
[00:35:38]  It's your idea!
[00:35:39]  This is a completely untenable way to organize society.
[00:35:43]  If you think that white-collar criminals have it easy now, imagine how they would do in that country where the punishment is death or nothing.
[00:35:52]  I guess maybe this caller has an unstated position about...
[00:35:57]  What states can do.
[00:35:58]  So maybe states can have a robust criminal justice system, but the federal government can just kill.
[00:36:05]  Only kill.
[00:36:05]  But then Alex would have to disagree with that because he doesn't think the federal government should be able to kill.
[00:36:10]  What about a Hunger Games scenario?
[00:36:11]  If we're going to get batty and just have the federal government with the right to kill or zero kill, I say we have some fun with it.
[00:36:20]  This is the problem with people who think they can improve society with their terrible ideas.
[00:36:23]  They don't have fun.
[00:36:25]  And you just want the government to kill people?
[00:36:27]  No!
[00:36:27]  Make it a show, man!
[00:36:29]  What about...
[00:36:30]  Now here's...
[00:36:30]  This is not very fun.
[00:36:31]  I admit this is a little in the weeds.
[00:36:33]  Alright, alright.
[00:36:34]  I would like to know what this person thinks about fines.
[00:36:39]  I would imagine this person has received a great many fines in his day.
[00:36:44]  I think that these conversations are stupid.
[00:36:48]  Sir, you can't be in my office anymore.
[00:36:50]  Sir, this is a $100 fine.
[00:36:52]  I'm listening to this show and I'm blown away that Alex is articulating his opposition to the death penalty and drugs the way he is.
[00:37:01]  And then he takes these calls and they're idiotic.
[00:37:04]  Insane.
[00:37:04]  They are completely stupid.
[00:37:06]  Absolutely, absolutely insane.
[00:37:08]  It's another caller.
[00:37:09]  And this lady, I don't know what to...
[00:37:12]  I can't make heads or tails of what she's talking about.
[00:37:14]  Okay.
[00:37:15]  I think I can.
[00:37:15]  It's just a long story.
[00:37:17]  A long story about...
[00:37:19]  From what I can tell, the details of it are that there were some police that showed up at her house.
[00:37:26]  Because she has some acres of land, and there's maybe something suspicious going on on some of the acres of the land that she allows other people to use, and they wanted to look into what was going on, and so she let them in, and they said, thank you for letting us look around, and this is a giant conspiracy of some sort.
[00:37:45]  She's under attack.
[00:37:46]  Okay.
[00:37:47]  That escalated very quickly.
[00:37:48]  This turns into Alex screaming.
[00:37:51]  Okay, okay.
[00:37:52]  Intense stuff.

=== Tyranny Tape Chronicles (05:11) ===

[00:37:53]  Sure.
[00:37:54]  Like this.
[00:37:55]  So what happened next?
[00:37:57]  Well, you know, they were real nice, and they said, you know, we appreciate your cooperation.
[00:38:02]  Oh, they're trash.
[00:38:04]  And I told the children, all the children were there, and we had, see, I homeschool my children.
[00:38:09]  And they call DCF on you.
[00:38:11]  They're real nice.
[00:38:12]  Oh, absolutely.
[00:38:12]  But see, my children read better than their friends.
[00:38:14]  What did the child grabbing services do to you after your husband died?
[00:38:18]  By the way, the hospitals have tracking records of that.
[00:38:20]  They know when a woman's alone.
[00:38:22]  They attack like predators when you're weak.
[00:38:24]  They're child kidnapping trash.
[00:38:26]  That's a little bit of an extreme response to the story that this person is telling him.
[00:38:31]  Yeah.
[00:38:32]  So, like, she has 70 acres of land.
[00:38:35]  Her husband had passed away, and she does say that she allows people to use, like, 30 acres of it.
[00:38:41]  Sure.
[00:38:41]  And there's not really a good sense that she has an idea of what's going on.
[00:38:46]  Sure, sure.
[00:38:47]  Some law enforcement showed up and wanted to look around, like I said, because they had reason to believe there was something suspicious there.
[00:38:52]  They didn't find anything, and they thanked her for cooperation, and now we've done this.
[00:38:57]  I fully understand standing up for your rights, and if this lady had chosen to let the police look around or told them to come back with a warrant, I think either is an appropriate choice to make in her situation.
[00:39:06]  It's one thing to be mindful of your rights and protect them.
[00:39:09]  It's another thing to do what Alex is doing, where he's trying to take some very benign details this caller is giving him and escalate the story into hospitals keeping track of when you're alone so they can kidnap your kids.
[00:39:21]  This is a sick person acting out at his audience, even back in 2003.
[00:39:24]  Yeah.
[00:39:25]  You see a bit less of this at this point in his career, but it's pretty clear that this behavior is still part of Alex's psyche, even back at this point.
[00:39:32]  Yeah.
[00:39:32]  It's gross.
[00:39:33]  That's great.
[00:39:35]  That's a great way to calm someone down who's just had a bit of a scary experience, not used to having cops show up at their place.
[00:39:41]  You know, to have somebody to bounce things off of like, hey, DCFS is following you and they're going to steal your kids at any moment.
[00:39:48]  That's what I want to call me down.
[00:39:50]  And steal your land.
[00:39:52]  And steal your land.
[00:39:53]  Apparently because this caller also brings up that one of the police that showed up knew her husband, her late husband.
[00:40:00]  He was taking her to the land back?
[00:40:02]  Alex takes this to be like, oh, he knew you had land.
[00:40:05]  Of course.
[00:40:08]  There's no indications.
[00:40:10]  This is modern day.
[00:40:11]  It's very witch-burning, Dan.
[00:40:12]  They're trying to take moneyed and propertyed women.
[00:40:15]  And honestly, she's lucky she survived.
[00:40:18]  You know, like you say, big bullies, you know, just go, oh, we have a right beer.
[00:40:22]  They come out, and the only way that you know that they're the law is because they have their shiny badge and they have their goat.
[00:40:27]  They're only a step away.
[00:40:29]  They're now recruiting illegals, criminals, you name it.
[00:40:32]  And they've caught them in California.
[00:40:34]  They're only a step away from walking you to the back of the house, blowing the back of your head off.
[00:40:40]  And throwing down a bag of marijuana and taking your land and moving into it with their fat, stinking bellies.
[00:40:47]  Well, I want you to know he would not take your 9-11, uh, the road to tyranny tape.
[00:40:52]  I mean, it was a criminal.
[00:40:54]  I actually tried to give him the 9-11 road to tyranny tape.
[00:40:58]  They have a 90% wake-up on that, Dan.
[00:41:01]  Yeah, I know.
[00:41:02]  Cowards.
[00:41:03]  Cowards.
[00:41:05]  Um...
[00:41:06]  Yep.
[00:41:07]  So apparently the police were looking to squat on this land, or I don't know.
[00:41:11]  It was a very extreme turn.
[00:41:14]  He takes a lot of time sort of yelling at this lady.
[00:41:17]  Seems to have a really good time.
[00:41:18]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:41:19]  It sounds like he's having a cracking time.
[00:41:21]  Yeah, and it all leads inevitably exactly where it's supposed to go.
[00:41:26]  I'm sorry, Don.
[00:41:28]  I just am sick of it.
[00:41:29]  God bless you.
[00:41:30]  I am too.
[00:41:30]  And listen, you don't know how many people out here you've woke up.
[00:41:34]  I give your tapes away.
[00:41:35]  Yeah, I want you to make 100 copies, and I want you to tell the neighbors that story and say, we need you to make 100 copies, and for them to make 100 copies, let's have 10,000 copies of my video in that area so people know what they're dealing with.
[00:41:48]  Let's expose the...
[00:41:51]  Criminals!
[00:41:51]  Yeah, so the only solution, everything bottlenecks to promoting Alex's stuff.
[00:41:56]  See, that takes me back.
[00:41:58]  That's good old-fashioned religion is what that is right there.
[00:42:01]  That's somebody telling you a story and you listening to them and you being part of them and you giving them the spirit of God and then at the end of it, my friend, what you need to do is...
[00:42:10]  Evangelize!
[00:42:11]  That is the way you pay for your sins!
[00:42:13]  You can hear Alex sweating.
[00:42:15]  Yeah.
[00:42:15]  Of excitement from the forehead.
[00:42:17]  We need a hundred tapes out of you.
[00:42:19]  Yeah.
[00:42:20]  Wow.
[00:42:20]  So Alex has a guest after this.
[00:42:22]  He goes to break, comes back, he's got a guest.
[00:42:25]  Very exciting guest.
[00:42:27]  Let's now go to a special guest.
[00:42:31]  I appreciate joining me on short notice.
[00:42:34]  Good friend of mine.
[00:42:36]  Great sponsor of this show.
[00:42:37]  It's his water sponsor guy.
[00:42:39]  Oh, there we go.
[00:42:40]  It's the U.S. distributor of Black Berkey water filters is his guest.
[00:42:46]  I'm afraid that I just don't think it's going to get much better than the soap guy.

=== Pallet Fell, Guest Coming (03:45) ===

[00:42:50]  No.
[00:42:50]  It's just not.
[00:42:51]  No.
[00:42:52]  I have not yet heard another guest who is so clearly abusing Alex.
[00:42:58]  Oh, just...
[00:42:59]  Forcing him to set up limericks.
[00:43:03]  Yeah, that...
[00:43:03]  No, no, no.
[00:43:04]  That's just too good.
[00:43:05]  Marty Schachter is...
[00:43:08]  Just the best.
[00:43:09]  Then he even exists as beautiful.
[00:43:11]  It really is.
[00:43:12]  It makes me feel good.
[00:43:13]  I don't want his soap, but I'm sure he's an awful person.
[00:43:15]  But in terms of somebody who has bullied their way onto Alex's show with money and forced him to broadcast limericks, pretty great.
[00:43:25]  It's pretty great.
[00:43:26]  But I will say, this is not limerick level, but it is still pretty funny that this is what's going on on Alex's show.
[00:43:33]  And it's an amazing system.
[00:43:36]  And they have an insane deal where I told you a pallet fell over a couple days ago.
[00:43:40]  A few of them got broke.
[00:43:41]  Most of them got a few scratches.
[00:43:42]  Those that have any real damage are being thrown away.
[00:43:45]  Instead of $199 for the two-filter Black Berkey clear filter that does dozens of gallons a day, tens of thousands of gallons in its lifetime, only $149, $50 for the scratch and dent sale.
[00:43:58]  And a lot of these don't even have a scratch on them.
[00:44:01]  It's a great deal, folks.
[00:44:02]  You need to get this.
[00:44:03]  Oh, my God.
[00:44:04]  A pallet fell over.
[00:44:06]  What kind of fucking hold up the used car salesman ass?
[00:44:12]  We got a pallet fell over, so they're 50 bucks cheaper.
[00:44:16]  I thought that was pretty amazing.
[00:44:18]  I was thrilled.
[00:44:20]  Listen, hey, it fell off the back of a truck sale.
[00:44:23]  You walk up, you take it, you give me cash, and you go away, no questions asked.
[00:44:28]  Yeah, I thought that was...
[00:44:29]  I mean, low rent is the...
[00:44:33]  Term I would use for that sales pitch.
[00:44:37]  Almost mint condition.
[00:44:39]  Lightly used.
[00:44:41]  You probably wouldn't even be able to tell that these fell off a pallet.
[00:44:44]  You might actually suspect that we just have too many of them and we want to move them.
[00:44:49]  I can't believe you got so lucky that you got the one good one off the broken pallet.
[00:44:54]  That's amazing.
[00:44:55]  50 bucks off for you.
[00:44:57]  Good job.
[00:44:57]  Every month we have a guy pretend to knock over a pallet.
[00:45:00]  Good find.
[00:45:02]  So, we head to the 29th, and Alex, not to outdo himself, has another guest in this episode that he teases at the beginning of the show.
[00:45:11]  We have another guest coming on.
[00:45:13]  In Alabama and Georgia and other states in the South, they're having massive military checkpoints for the last three years in a row.
[00:45:24]  Now, I've caught some of these on video here in Texas, but now...
[00:45:29]  They're routing the highway off the road, the cars, into the National Guard armory.
[00:45:35]  They are ransacking vehicles, literally foaming at the mouth.
[00:45:40]  We have seen this over and over and over again, and we've got a guest coming on to talk about that coming up in about 30 minutes.
[00:45:49]  This is what the National Seatbelt Use Initiative is all about.
[00:45:54]  Bill Clinton funded with billions of dollars a year in 98. Seatbelt clicker ticket is about getting cars to armories to ransack.
[00:46:04]  Such a weird stretch of time for us specifically.
[00:46:07]  So much seatbelt-related melodrama happening.
[00:46:10]  A lot of seatbelts.
[00:46:11]  In a very short period of time for us!
[00:46:13]  Yeah, and it is weird.
[00:46:14]  It's another sign of my witchcraft that in the present day, Alex was going down to McAllen, Texas and doing the seatbelt snitch act.

=== NSSM 200 Controversy (15:36) ===

[00:46:22]  They're not wearing this!
[00:46:24]  Yeah.
[00:46:25]  It does add a little bit of hilarity that these things are sort of coexisting in our show at the same time.
[00:46:31]  Yeah.
[00:46:32]  Bananas.
[00:46:33]  So, I don't want to spoil anything for you.
[00:46:35]  Sure.
[00:46:35]  But this caller doesn't actually have much to say.
[00:46:40]  Oh.
[00:46:40]  It doesn't prove a lot of this.
[00:46:41]  Oh, no.
[00:46:42]  So, this next clip gets into something that's, I think, a little bit murky, and there's a lot of, there's probably a good bit of explanation that I need to, a lot of track on this one.
[00:46:53]  Sure.
[00:46:54]  But Alex starts talking, and I was very confused, and it took a while to sort of disentangle some of these threads.
[00:47:01]  I heard Joyce Riley talking about the report out of Brazil yesterday, so I went and got the actual document.
[00:47:08]  We're posting it on Infowars.com right now.
[00:47:11]  Of course, this has been out for years, but I think it's important to remind people of it.
[00:47:16]  She reminded me when I heard her show yesterday morning.
[00:47:20]  And I have the actual report put out by the National Security Agency and the CIA, Population and National Security, 30-page report where Dr. Kissinger and others talk about exterminating half of the Third World's population through birth control.
[00:47:38]  Forced sterilization, and it's been going on since the mid-70s.
[00:47:43]  Tens of billions of dollars of your tax money to do it.
[00:47:46]  And, my friends, it's just amazing.
[00:47:49]  Here's the headline.
[00:47:50]  Brazil launches inquiry into U.S. population activities.
[00:47:54]  Billions sterilized to meet U.S. policy objectives.
[00:47:57]  A U.S.-sponsored program that resulted in the sterilization of nearly half of Brazil's women has prompted a formal congressional inquiry sponsored by more than 165 legislators from every political party that is represented in the Brazilian legislature.
[00:48:10]  The investigation has ignited after information about a secret U.S. National Security Council memorandum on American population control objectives in developing countries was published in the Journal of Brazil.
[00:48:26]  And other major newspapers in early May.
[00:48:29]  Now, again, this goes back to the early 90s.
[00:48:31]  We have the 30-page report directly off the Library of Congress.
[00:48:37]  You can link through at InfoWars.com and read it.
[00:48:40]  So, just listening to this, I started with a little bit of confusion, because he's talking about a report out of Brazil.
[00:48:46]  Yeah.
[00:48:46]  And so he said that we have this report.
[00:48:48]  And so I was like, does he have the report itself?
[00:48:52]  Right.
[00:48:52]  What is the report?
[00:48:53]  And it didn't make sense to me, because he claims he's read this thing, and he's posting it.
[00:48:58]  It's a 30-page report called Population and Homeland Security.
[00:49:02]  Okay.
[00:49:02]  So I'm starting to put the pieces together, but there's no such report.
[00:49:06]  Sure.
[00:49:07]  It's not a report out of Brazil.
[00:49:09]  This is something else.
[00:49:10]  This is this national security report.
[00:49:12]  Right.
[00:49:12]  I know what he's talking about.
[00:49:14]  It doesn't match what he's saying.
[00:49:16]  The report he's referring to is National Security Study Memorandum 200 from December 1974.
[00:49:22]  The subtitle of the report is, quote, implications of worldwide population growth for U.S. security and overseas interests.
[00:49:28]  But the problem is that document's 123 pages long, not 30. I don't know what he's talking about.
[00:49:33]  Maybe some report about that report?
[00:49:36]  Yeah, and you would say, like, oh, maybe he only read 30 pages of it, but he didn't read two pages of the 30 pages that he didn't read of the 124 pages.
[00:49:45]  Yeah, I don't know what...
[00:49:49]  The specific report he's talking about is.
[00:49:50]  But I do know that underneath it is this NSSM 200.
[00:49:55]  Okay.
[00:49:55]  And we've talked about it in the past, particularly in the endgame coverage and stuff.
[00:49:58]  But to give a brief recap of it...
[00:50:00]  This is not a plan to sterilize the world.
[00:50:03]  That's a fake version of this document that Alex has imagined because it's really about providing foreign aid in the form of healthcare and reproductive assistance to people in less developed countries, and Alex is super against that.
[00:50:15]  He's smart enough to know that he would look like an asshole if he spent his time passionately yelling about how evil it is to provide healthcare to people in developing countries, so what he does is attack the policies and proposals to do just that by pretending that they're actually plans to kill everyone, and he's a hero for telling you about the evil.
[00:50:30]  If you actually go read NSSM 200 after having only heard Alex yell about it, one of the things you'll be surprised by is how much of the document is not about providing reproductive options to people in the developing world at all.
[00:50:43]  In reality, it's about the implications of the post-World War II population growth that's been seen around the world and how it could impact the general stability of the world, mostly as seen through the prism of U.S. interests.
[00:50:54]  The document places equal importance on programs aimed at, quote, The word sterilization is used two times in the document in the same paragraph when it's listed as one of the short-term options that are available to provide improved fertility control for
[00:51:24]  people in the developing world.
[00:51:25]  There's a list of options like oral contraception, IUD, and even teaching ovulation prediction and the rhythm method.
[00:51:32]  And sterilization in this context that it's being used is things like tubal ligation or vasectomies.
[00:51:39]  So, that's the thing.
[00:51:42]  Sterilization is a word that's a bit loaded.
[00:51:44]  On the one hand, coerced or pressured sterilization is definitely hugely unethical and unacceptable, and there is a history of it in the world, and I'm not minimizing that.
[00:51:54]  On the other hand, there's a long and widespread history of people using voluntary sterilization as a method of birth control, and Brazil is a place with an interesting history on that front.
[00:52:04]  There's a much larger picture here and a bigger story to unpack than what Alex is doing.
[00:52:08]  He's pitching a made-up version of this document from the 70s, combining it with a recent headline he's read from Brazil and declaring his work done.
[00:52:16]  In reality, he's done nothing and he's covering up what's actually going on under the surface.
[00:52:21]  The actual news headline here that he has is about an investigation in Brazil into the history of sterilizations, which was said to have been prompted by reports about NSSM 200 in Brazilian outlets.
[00:52:33]  Instead of talking about the details of Brazilian sterilizations and what this actual news story is about, Alex just rattles off his normal talking points about the memo and he pats himself on the back.
[00:52:43]  That was unsatisfying for me as a listener, so I decided to look a little bit deeper into the subject.
[00:52:50]  For a little background on the situation that Alex is covering, it's important to understand the roots of family planning history in Brazil.
[00:52:56]  As discussed by Jose Alves, professor of the National School of Statistical Sciences at the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics, titled, quote, The Context of Family Planning in Brazil, from the early days, there was a moratorium on any sort of birth control.
[00:53:12]  Federal decree 2029-1 from 1932, quote, established that doctors are forbidden from indulging in any practice whose aim is to prevent contraception or terminate gestation.
[00:53:24]  In 1941, a law was passed making it a crime to even advertise processes or substances that would be meant to encourage reproductive choice.
[00:53:32]  As you could probably imagine, this didn't stop the public demand for birth control options, and beginning in 1965, a group called Family Wellbeing Civil Society started providing some family planning services.
[00:53:43]  Though they were unable to meet demand, and even if they could, the ability to provide things like oral contraception was nearly impossible in the context of Brazil's laws.
[00:53:52]  The country was playing from behind.
[00:53:55]  And it didn't help that in 1964, Brazil was the locale of a US-supported coup that led to the installation of a military dictatorship that lasted until 1985.
[00:54:04]  Over the course of that period, opinions began to soften on family planning, with it becoming seen more as a matter of individual rights and health decision-making.
[00:54:12]  By the time that the real progress was being made on the issue of reproductive rights, there were already a ton of people in Brazil who had opted for sterilization as a means of birth control.
[00:54:22]  And many of them were women who already had kids and didn't want more.
[00:54:26]  And that predates the NSSM 200 memo that Alex is talking about.
[00:54:31]  One of the primary drivers I've been able to find identified as contributing to a high number of sterilizations in the country has to do with the period just after the end of the military dictatorship.
[00:54:42]  As the country went through the process of democratization, one of the moves that was made was to decentralize the medical system so there would be more local control and responsibility for the providing of healthcare to the public.
[00:54:53]  This was a decision that cut in two directions, particularly in higher poverty, less developed areas of the country.
[00:55:00]  As explained in an article from the journal Population and Development Review from March 2004, While efforts to improve and decentralize the administration of the public health care system undoubtedly led to progress in a number of larger municipalities, it is possible that decentralization actually fueled clientelism in smaller and poorer municipalities by providing an additional source of assets to be used for political purposes.
[00:55:24]  Decentralization resulted in a two-tiered system in which the better-off segments of the population opted for private, managed health care, while low-income groups were left to depend on public services of uneven or poor quality, in which preventative medicine as well as contraception had long been undervalued.
[00:55:39]  It was in this context, as politics and health care provision became deeply entangled and the demand for contraception rose among low-income groups with few alternative options for birth control, that sterilization acquired importance in the clientelistic exchange of medical care for votes.
[00:56:05]  From the paper, quote, Considering all our sterilized respondents, 71% said that they took the initiative of asking for the surgery, while 22% reported that the physician had suggested the procedure or had provided a medical indication for it.
[00:56:19]  People want reproductive health care that they just didn't have access to.
[00:56:24]  One doctor they spoke with explained the prevalence of sterilizations.
[00:56:27]  The reason one of them is that there's a shortage of other options.
[00:56:31]  And even if something like the pill was available, it's only available, quote, on an irregular basis, which prevents...
[00:56:38]  Which kind of makes it pointless.
[00:56:39]  Yeah.
[00:56:40]  In this climate, where there is a demand for birth control and no access to it, people who are in positions to provide some access pop up.
[00:56:48]  The authors of the paper talked to another surgeon who explained, quote, Essentially, These mayors are friends of physicians.
[00:57:09]  Essentially the way it would work is that because the state wouldn't reimburse the doctor for performing a tubal ligation, they would do it in conjunction with another procedure at the patient's request in order to game the bureaucracy.
[00:57:21]  Of the 281 women they spoke to, 159 had personally asked a politician for a favor to get a tubal ligation, and 100 said that they, quote, returned the favor by voting for them.
[00:57:33]  78 of those 100 even, quote, tried to obtain additional votes for their benefactors.
[00:57:38]  It's a compelling snapshot here of this mutually beneficial yet inherently exploitative system that arose out of the inability of people to access reliable services.
[00:57:48]  self-directive reproductive health care.
[00:57:49]  It's always so fascinating to me how I can get curious about a subject that Alex is talking about, scratch the surface a little bit, and find that the exact solution to it is the thing that he opposes the most.
[00:57:59]  Yep.
[00:58:02]  And again, nothing that I'm saying is meant to minimize or pretend that eugenic applications of sterilization have not been used many times in history.
[00:58:09]  That's absolutely the truth.
[00:58:10]  It's just that there's a wider story that exists in terms of Brazilian history than Alex cares to even be curious about.
[00:58:17]  The headline he's reporting on is about this investigation in Brazil, and it's nothing new.
[00:58:22]  A parliamentary commission of inquiry was opened in 1967 to explore accusations of mass sterilizations, and another was launched in 1983.
[00:58:30]  There was a third opened in 1991, quote, to examine the spread of female sterilization in Brazil and identify persons or organizations responsible for its misuse.
[00:58:40]  This was followed by a National Congress investigation in 1992 that was to examine, quote, the possible racist motivations behind the provision of sterilization, the role of international agencies and interests, the availability of alternative birth control methods to low-income women, and the politically motivated use of tubal ligations.
[00:58:59]  The result was that, quote, in its final report, the congressional CPI echoed the findings of the state's investigations by noting that pervasive poverty and the lack of reproductive health services contributed to women's dependence on sterilization as a birth control method.
[00:59:13]  Shocking no one.
[00:59:16]  Not really.
[00:59:17]  Yeah.
[00:59:17]  This has been a matter that's widely discussed, and it's something that has been investigated and talked about in terms of Brazil for many years.
[00:59:25]  And I'm fairly certain that Alex doesn't even know about the existence of these previous investigations.
[00:59:30]  He just thinks that recently in Brazil someone found NSSM-200, and the whole thing's blowing up and exploding now, which is just dumb.
[00:59:39]  Alex provides his audience with a dumb but easy-to-understand story that leads them to accepting bad positions.
[00:59:45]  If you're opposed to sterilization being used as a birth control method, then waging a crusade against widespread access to alternative birth control methods is exactly the wrong way to do it.
[00:59:55]  Ah, or you could have a draconian crackdown and remove all rights from women.
[01:00:01]  There are two ways to go.
[01:00:03]  Yeah.
[01:00:04]  There are two ways to go.
[01:00:05]  I'm not saying that one is better than the other.
[01:00:08]  Yeah, and one of the things that I found really difficult was that, like, I don't know, like, and obviously I would never say that...
[01:00:19]  the use of sterilization or tubal ligation, and to a lesser extent vasectomies, as widely discussed in the sources that I was able to find.
[01:00:32]  I wouldn't ever pretend to be naive enough to think that there wasn't any abuse.
[01:00:37]  No, of course.
[01:00:38]  And even the system that that one paper that I found discussing the clientelism aspect of it in poorer, less developed areas, like that is intrinsically exploitative.
[01:00:49]  Oh, no, the power of balance is fucked up.
[01:00:51]  It would never happen like this if everyone had agency.
[01:00:55]  Exactly.
[01:00:56]  Exactly.
[01:00:56]  Yeah.
[01:00:57]  And what is available to be offered is an unfair exchange.
[01:01:01]  Yeah, of course.
[01:01:03]  Oops.
[01:01:03]  I wouldn't bet that there aren't instances of also abuse.
[01:01:11]  It's people.
[01:01:13]  It's just that the stories that you hear about sterilization campaigns being used as methods of genocide or eugenics are what Alex wants you to think every single birth control initiative ever has been.
[01:01:28]  Yes.
[01:01:29]  And that's unfair because I think it's a disservice to.
[01:01:31]  the campaigns that have happened and are horrors.
[01:01:34]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:01:34]  No.
[01:01:35]  Yeah.
[01:01:36]  It's, it is, It's difficult for Alex, simply because you can't be for any kind of birth control.

=== Rational Choice vs. Sterilization (08:44) ===

[01:01:47]  You just can't.
[01:01:49]  There's no way for Alex to square being like, okay, it's okay for sterilizations if there's no other available birth control method.
[01:01:57]  So it always has to be wrapped up in something else being a murder.
[01:02:02]  That's the only way you can talk about birth control through his eyes, you know?
[01:02:06]  But his politics don't allow for you to be able to dictate what someone can do with their own body.
[01:02:12]  Like, if you say, I want to...
[01:02:13]  If that person's a woman, they do.
[01:02:16]  Fine, then let's make it vasectomies, then.
[01:02:18]  Well, exactly.
[01:02:20]  It can't ever be someone's rational choice.
[01:02:25]  To engage in a birth control act.
[01:02:28]  It always has to be some sort of a conspiracy where you're tricked into it.
[01:02:31]  Yeah, because if it is one time a rational choice, then that means that there are other people who can make that same rational choice and then all of a sudden there are a lot of things that you have to recontextualize as maybe that's a rational choice too until it becomes reasonable to assume that some forms of birth control are rational actors and then your whole argument about how everybody's trying to kill you is kind of gone.
[01:02:51]  It hurts.
[01:02:52]  Yeah.
[01:02:53]  So, this conversation is about birth control.
[01:02:58]  It's about reproductive rights and health.
[01:03:02]  But Alex takes this story about Brazil, and you can see him pivot it, because he doesn't know really what anything is about, and he has a certain amount of talking points.
[01:03:12]  And he makes it about vaccines, because he also believes that they're trying to sterilize the third world through putting secret stuff in vaccines and stuff.
[01:03:23]  And so he just takes this story and makes it about that because it works.
[01:03:27]  This is the mindset.
[01:03:28]  So you go ahead and take your vaccines, America.
[01:03:31]  People wonder why the male sperm count is down by 76% as of 2000.
[01:03:36]  I haven't seen the numbers in 2001 yet or 2002.
[01:03:39]  They come out years after.
[01:03:42]  Europe's sperm count is down by 80%.
[01:03:44]  Hotly anticipated report.
[01:03:47]  I know dozens of women that are friends of the family who are healthy.
[01:03:51]  Who don't use drugs, who are 30 years old, who cannot have children.
[01:03:57]  Europe's population in some cities is off by 50%.
[01:04:00]  Overall, in the next 30 years, Europe will lose about 40% of its population.
[01:04:06]  Whole cities are ghost towns now in Germany and France and England.
[01:04:10]  They're replacing them with immigrants from the third world.
[01:04:13]  So you can see what the policy has done.
[01:04:16]  It's not just in Africa and Latin America.
[01:04:17]  So you go ahead and take your tetanus shot.
[01:04:20]  You go ahead and give your daughter that tetanus shot and you wonder why she can't give you grandchildren 15-20 years from now.
[01:04:26]  Okay?
[01:04:27]  No grandchildren for you!
[01:04:30]  No grandchildren for you!
[01:04:32]  It is still about vaccines that he's yelling no grandchildren for you.
[01:04:36]  No grandchildren for you.
[01:04:37]  Yep.
[01:04:38]  Has anybody had any grandchildren?
[01:04:40]  To get into a white fear there quite a bit.
[01:04:42]  Yeah, some people have grandkids.
[01:04:44]  In the past 20 years, I have not heard of any new grandkids.
[01:04:48]  Now, I mean, technically, in the past two years, I have had three combined nieces and nephews appear into this world.
[01:04:55]  Yeah, so have I. But, but, whose grandchildren are they?
[01:05:01]  Oh, God.
[01:05:01]  Your parents?
[01:05:02]  So stupid.
[01:05:02]  So stupid.
[01:05:03]  Yeah.
[01:05:04]  So stupid.
[01:05:05]  Yeah.
[01:05:06]  I don't know.
[01:05:07]  I don't want to speak too much about, like, Not believing Alex, because I feel like I do it too much.
[01:05:14]  But I wonder if these people that he knows who can't have kids are made up, or like the lieutenant colonels he talks about all the time.
[01:05:24]  Could be made up.
[01:05:26]  I gotta tell my family to start vaccinating their kids if they want them to stay at that baby.
[01:05:31]  You know how some people are like, oh, I wish they could stay this age forever.
[01:05:35]  Guys, COVID vaccine now.
[01:05:37]  Three years old forever.
[01:05:40]  I, Jordan, I just had a terrifying moment.
[01:05:43]  What's that?
[01:05:43]  I have to make a correction.
[01:05:44]  Oh, no.
[01:05:46]  I said that Alex makes things up.
[01:05:49]  I have to, I forgot.
[01:05:51]  Folks, you've been listening to the show for four or five years, six years, some of you, some of you eight years, you live here in Austin.
[01:05:59]  And you know I don't make stuff up.
[01:06:01]  I post the documents on Infowars.com for the five years we've had the website.
[01:06:07]  We tell the truth here, and I'm sorry if the truth is scary.
[01:06:11]  But truth is stranger than fiction, and you had better wake up.
[01:06:14]  I mean, the evil is spiraling out of control.
[01:06:19]  Now is the time to stand up for America.
[01:06:22]  We have got to do it now!
[01:06:25]  We could not wait any longer.
[01:06:28]  Certainly can't wait 18 more years.
[01:06:30]  No, no, no, no.
[01:06:31]  It's got to be done now.
[01:06:32]  It's got to be done now.
[01:06:33]  So I'm sorry that I claimed that Alex made things up.
[01:06:37]  I forgot that he said that he doesn't make things up.
[01:06:39]  No, I think he's got a good case for libel.
[01:06:41]  Yeah, probably.
[01:06:43]  So here's something that Alex is making up.
[01:06:45]  Sure.
[01:06:46]  The average doctor giving you the shot is mandated by the AMA.
[01:06:49]  It's not a law, but he will try to bully you into it.
[01:06:52]  How dare you question him?
[01:06:54]  The AMA says it's good.
[01:06:55]  It must be good.
[01:06:57]  The AMA is a corporate body owned by the military industrial complex.
[01:07:01]  What?
[01:07:02]  It's compartmentalization.
[01:07:04]  Only the people working at the vaccine plants at the higher levels, only a few hundred, know what they're doing, and they're all CIA.
[01:07:14]  What?
[01:07:16]  Many of them are Nazis, ladies and gentlemen.
[01:07:19]  What?
[01:07:20]  Literally.
[01:07:21]  I'm late.
[01:07:22]  We are under attack, ladies and gentlemen, and you've got to face the facts.
[01:07:28]  All right.
[01:07:28]  That escalated three levels very quickly.
[01:07:31]  AMA.
[01:07:32]  No.
[01:07:32]  You thought it was doctors.
[01:07:33]  Bullshit.
[01:07:34]  Military industrial complex.
[01:07:36]  Sure.
[01:07:36]  What's that?
[01:07:36]  No.
[01:07:37]  You thought it was military industrial complex?
[01:07:39]  Uh-uh.
[01:07:39]  300 people know the real truth.
[01:07:42]  About vaccines.
[01:07:43]  What's that?
[01:07:43]  You think it's just 300 people?
[01:07:45]  No.
[01:07:45]  It's 300 Nazis!
[01:07:47]  CIA Nazis.
[01:07:48]  CIA Nazis!
[01:07:50]  Literal Nazis.
[01:07:51]  I just also like to see this in, like, sort of relationship with Alex complaining about everyone calling him a Nazi.
[01:07:59]  Yes.
[01:08:01]  He calls everybody Nazis in the past.
[01:08:03]  You are...
[01:08:04]  Seatbelts.
[01:08:06]  Seatbelts are a problem.
[01:08:07]  Well, but that's because they are.
[01:08:09]  That is true.
[01:08:10]  Yeah.
[01:08:10]  That's all right.
[01:08:10]  And his history has borne out that he is taking it much more seriously in the present.
[01:08:14]  It seems like it.
[01:08:19]  Anyway, as we discuss on pretty much every 2003 episode, one of the things I'm most interested in is trying to figure out if Alex believes he's fighting the literal Christian devil.
[01:08:30]  Yes.
[01:08:30]  And I'm still not sure.
[01:08:32]  Damn it.
[01:08:32]  Although this gets me a little closer.
[01:08:34]  Okay.
[01:08:35]  Everything is just bonkers, ladies and gentlemen.
[01:08:38]  We are under massive attack by what can only be described as pit of Hades, say, panic.
[01:08:48]  Force Hitch.
[01:08:51]  I mean, it just freaks me out every day to do this show.
[01:08:54]  I cannot believe how insane things have gotten.
[01:08:57]  That was getting so close to the I Gotta Quit vibe.
[01:08:59]  That was.
[01:09:00]  That was really close.
[01:09:01]  But yeah, it can be described as pit of hell forces.
[01:09:06]  Yeah.
[01:09:07]  It's not good enough.
[01:09:08]  That's not quite there.
[01:09:09]  Damn it, it's close, though.
[01:09:11]  That's not quite there.
[01:09:11]  Yeah.
[01:09:12]  And even though he said Massive Attack, the song is named Angel, not Devil, so we can't go that angle if we want.
[01:09:18]  Maybe he's a big fan of Tricky.
[01:09:21]  Could be.
[01:09:22]  Could be.
[01:09:23]  Also, Teardrop.
[01:09:26]  Yep, yep, there was that one.
[01:09:27]  Theme song from House.
[01:09:32]  Didn't they do the entire soundtrack for a Jet Li movie?
[01:09:37]  Probably.
[01:09:37]  He was a dog.
[01:09:39]  Jet Li was captured by a British gangster and he was raised as he had.
[01:09:44]  I think Morgan Freeman was in that one.
[01:09:46]  I bet you a dollar they're on the Snatch soundtrack.
[01:09:49]  Oh, they're on the Snatch soundtrack, my friend.
[01:09:51]  Don't you dare say they're not.
[01:09:53]  Even if they're not, they are.
[01:09:54]  They are, yes.
[01:09:55]  Spiritually, they are the Snatch soundtrack.
[01:09:58]  Yeah, so Alex has this caller coming in.
[01:10:00]  To talk about seatbelt stuff ending up in ransacking at the armory.
[01:10:05]  But...
[01:10:05]  We're about to go to Bill McFallin, who's in Alabama, who has seen these massive military checkpoints with the black helicopters the whole nine yards.

=== HerbalHealer.com Ad (02:16) ===

[01:10:13]  We've gotten these on video in Texas, but they're intensifying it.
[01:10:17]  It's been going on since before 9-1-1, and during the click-it-or-ticket system, the Army-directed people into the National Guard armory.
[01:10:24]  That's coming up in just one moment.
[01:10:27]  But first, ladies and gentlemen, I want to tell you about HerbalHealer.com.
[01:10:33]  That sucks, but it's also like, alright.
[01:10:37]  There's no passion behind it.
[01:10:38]  It's clearly paid programming or whatever.
[01:10:41]  It's clearly an ad.
[01:10:43]  I don't think that that's unethical.
[01:10:45]  I think it's a little bit disjointed somewhat.
[01:10:50]  Whatever.
[01:10:50]  It's how you would expect ads to work in a radio show.
[01:10:54]  Yes!
[01:10:55]  And the reason that I'm playing it, even though it is more like, here's a topic we're going to get into, before we get to that, I want to talk to you about a sponsor.
[01:11:02]  Right.
[01:11:03]  I'm playing that because that's not how he does it.
[01:11:06]  No, that's...
[01:11:06]  In later times.
[01:11:07]  It's so eroded.
[01:11:09]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:11:10]  No, that's almost like a 1950s TV show where they would cut in with an actual actor from the show and be like, I know we're having a grand time watching this thing going on, but first let me tell you about Thompson's...
[01:11:21]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:11:22]  I also think that Alex's sales pitch is a little underwhelming.
[01:11:26]  Ancient knowledge that's been passed on.
[01:11:30]  They've got books for your region on naturally occurring treatments and cures.
[01:11:36]  It's ridiculous.
[01:11:37]  I'm looking at their catalog here, folks.
[01:11:40]  This thing is 100 pages long.
[01:11:44]  They've got natural remedies to get the parasites out of your body that most people have.
[01:11:50]  Apple Cider Vinegar Plus, Formula One, Super X, Herbs.
[01:11:58]  Folks, it goes on and on.
[01:12:01]  Correspondence courses.
[01:12:02]  It goes on and on and on.
[01:12:05]  Just get the free catalog or you're insane.
[01:12:07]  It doesn't feel like someone who's super familiar with Super X. I like whatever you're doing an ad read in the middle of it.

=== Fingerprint Scans for School Lunches (06:51) ===

[01:12:18]  You get mad that you have to continue doing the ad read.
[01:12:21]  It just goes on and on.
[01:12:23]  It's a hundred pages, this catalog.
[01:12:25]  It just goes on and on.
[01:12:26]  You're insane.
[01:12:27]  Mm-hmm.
[01:12:28]  So this guy calls in, or this guest, because this guy might as well be a fucking caller, but he's a guest.
[01:12:35]  He's a bona fide guest who has some experience with the Click It or Ticket campaign, I guess.
[01:12:41]  That takes you to the armory.
[01:12:43]  I don't know if this guy actually...
[01:12:45]  I mean, he definitely didn't say that he did.
[01:12:47]  Well, I would imagine that would be hard.
[01:12:49]  So, I...
[01:12:51]  I was listening to the details of this guy's story and from everything I can tell there was just like a traffic stop.
[01:12:57]  Sure.
[01:12:57]  And he didn't have to stop.
[01:13:00]  Oh.
[01:13:00]  But other people did.
[01:13:01]  Okay.
[01:13:02]  And Alex makes it a little bit racial.
[01:13:04]  Okay.
[01:13:05]  We were allowed to pass through.
[01:13:07]  Although we drove very, very slowly after the stop.
[01:13:10]  Yeah, they just randomly picked cars out.
[01:13:11]  They're saying they stopped the Volvo with the old people.
[01:13:15]  They stopped the Volvo with a very old couple in it.
[01:13:18]  And as we drove slowly past them...
[01:13:20]  For those who don't know, they will have CIA FEMA operators, the type of listeners you've seen in the road to tyranny in Kansas City teaching a classroom of police that, quote, Christians...
[01:13:29]  Founding fathers are terrorists, so what if they have to die?
[01:13:32]  We have the training manuals, constitutionalist homeschoolers.
[01:13:36]  If you look conservative, and we've seen these happen, if you've got a giant turban on your head, you speed through.
[01:13:43]  The FEMA directors on the ground will direct the young troops and the police to go after middle America.
[01:13:51]  This is training them.
[01:13:53]  That uh-uh middle America was a little telling there.
[01:13:57]  Uh-uh middle America.
[01:13:58]  Going after uh-uh.
[01:14:01]  Middle America.
[01:14:02]  Also, that clip is about a minute long and it begins with this guy who's the caller saying that he went right through the checkpoint.
[01:14:09]  I didn't hear the part where he said I was wearing a giant turban.
[01:14:14]  Well, I mean, that's assumed with all of those conversations, just because if you are driving through Austin, you know the only way to avoid the cops is by wearing a turban.
[01:14:24]  This guy's not in Austin, to be fair.
[01:14:27]  He's in Alabama.
[01:14:28]  He's in Alabama.
[01:14:31]  Traditionally, I have not seen turbans treated well in Alabama.
[01:14:35]  Well, you haven't been to a checkpoint.
[01:14:39]  That's true.
[01:14:40]  I have not had a clicketer ticket in Alabama.
[01:14:42]  So yeah, this interview is the definition of why is this happening?
[01:14:48]  Yeah.
[01:14:49]  I don't know.
[01:14:50]  You went to a checkpoint.
[01:14:51]  You saw a couple of old people get pulled over.
[01:14:54]  And now, look, I mean...
[01:14:56]  I had a small percentage chance of receiving a ticket, so Alex is going to turn this into a vast racial conspiracy to destroy white people.
[01:15:04]  Mm-hmm.
[01:15:05]  Basically.
[01:15:05]  Yeah.
[01:15:06]  That sounds about right.
[01:15:07]  So there's another story that Alex is trying to make people scared about, and it has to do with fingerprint scans being used for school lunches.
[01:15:13]  And we'll talk about that a tiny bit after he pretends to be very emotional about it.
[01:15:19]  Sad.
[01:15:19]  Imagine 20 years ago making some 1984 movie or Brave New World movie, you know, a PHX 1138 type film.
[01:15:26]  Where the kids, imagine a future movie.
[01:15:28]  Imagine if they'd have made America with a K with Christopher Stopperson and where the communists take over.
[01:15:33]  Imagine the movie, the kids having to thumb scan to get food.
[01:15:36]  You'd have been, oh, that'll never happen.
[01:15:37]  Imagine that nightmare future.
[01:15:39]  And now there are dozens of school districts that we know of in Texas that are doing it.
[01:15:43]  It's happening in England to get library books, to get food.
[01:15:47]  Oh, man.
[01:15:50]  I mean, come on!
[01:15:54]  And simultaneously it's going in the driver's license facilities, the banks, the grocery stores people, from Kansas to New York to Texas.
[01:16:01]  Come on.
[01:16:03]  You want to fight these people?
[01:16:05]  The only way to solve these problems are to promote Alex's products.
[01:16:15]  It just seems almost too easy.
[01:16:17]  Yeah.
[01:16:18]  It seems almost too easy to defeat the globalists.
[01:16:20]  All roads lead to that bottleneck of the solution is free publicity for Infowars.
[01:16:27]  It's really convenient for him.
[01:16:28]  So this story about the fingerprinting, this wasn't mandatory.
[01:16:32]  Students could choose to use a PIN number.
[01:16:34]  Which is...
[01:16:43]  They're right.
[01:16:43]  They can choose that if they want.
[01:16:45]  Apparently, this is a really good system for school lunches for a couple of reasons.
[01:16:49]  The first is that it streamlines overcrowded school lunch lines, which is a problem in many overcrowded schools.
[01:16:56]  The second is that by making the transaction uniform in appearance, you completely eliminate the stigma that many kids feel if they're on lunch assistance programs.
[01:17:05]  And the concerns were addressed.
[01:17:28]  A copy of the student's fingerprint is connected to a unique identifier, but the stored data isn't the actual fingerprint.
[01:17:34]  Also, quote, parents who do not want their child fingerprinted may obtain an opt-out form.
[01:17:39]  Of course.
[01:17:40]  None of this...
[01:17:41]  I don't know.
[01:17:42]  I just don't care.
[01:17:43]  Yeah.
[01:17:44]  I don't know why this is...
[01:17:47]  The most pressing issue in the world.
[01:17:49]  Your argument to me can never be, can you imagine making a sci-fi film in the 70s and thinking, oh, they'll use their fingerprints to get lunches.
[01:17:59]  That's nothing to me.
[01:18:01]  If every time I use my fucking credit card, I tap it against a thing and it references a ridiculous amount of information about me in an instant and then comes back and they know it all.
[01:18:12]  No one cares.
[01:18:13]  The notion of...
[01:18:15]  Creating a database of children's fingerprints is a little bit fucked up.
[01:18:23]  Sure.
[01:18:23]  And that's not what they were doing.
[01:18:25]  And secondarily, it was also fucked up.
[01:18:29]  This is a concern that I think is very legitimate.
[01:18:31]  If you keep that all on file, that seems like something someone could hack.
[01:18:36]  Yeah, totally.
[01:18:36]  But that concern is also addressed in not storing the fingerprints, but storing as numerical identifiers.
[01:18:44]  Perfect.
[01:18:45]  And so, you know, it's not like these concerns weren't something that the people who put this system into place didn't think about.

=== Regulating Tiger Cubs (15:21) ===

[01:18:55]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:18:56]  I mean, it does seem like all too often many of the complaints that Alex brings towards any kind of system are things that you could just address.
[01:19:04]  Well...
[01:19:04]  And instead of being like ultimate flaws in the system, they're just like bugs that you can work out.
[01:19:10]  The real complaints that he has, or the ones that are based in reality, are things that people are aware of and other people are conversing about in...
[01:19:19]  Reasonable, rational tones.
[01:19:21]  Based in reality kind of ways.
[01:19:24]  The things that are nonsense that he's yelling about are all just things to be appeals to the emotions of the audience in order to bring them closer to that bottleneck that gets them to making a hundred copies of his movie.
[01:19:35]  Jesus.
[01:19:36]  And you gotta do it, man, or else.
[01:19:38]  I want you to get the videos.
[01:19:40]  And I want you to make a copy when you go to work in the morning and a copy when you go to sleep at night.
[01:19:44]  Two copies a day.
[01:19:46]  Two dollars a day and a fifty dollar VCR.
[01:19:49]  I want you to get the videos.
[01:19:51]  They're $25.95.
[01:19:52]  Order three or more of any of the nine films.
[01:19:54]  They drop down to 20. I want you to do it now.
[01:19:57]  It's waking people up.
[01:19:58]  We've got to save this country.
[01:20:01]  Do it now.
[01:20:02]  Please make the call.
[01:20:04]  Get in the fight, or it's over, folks.
[01:20:07]  Get in the fight by reproducing videos to give to people as free promotion, or it's over.
[01:20:14]  That's awful.
[01:20:15]  Oh, man.
[01:20:16]  For an initial investment of $50 and just $2 a day, you can make sure that Alex Jones will be richer than you can imagine.
[01:20:24]  Can you just open your heart?
[01:20:27]  This sales pitch is not compelling.
[01:20:29]  Can you change it to Saving America?
[01:20:33]  Because then it's going to work.
[01:20:34]  If you don't make this $2 a day sacrifice...
[01:20:39]  Click it or tick it.
[01:20:41]  Soldiers will come to your home, rip your children away from you, take them to a 70-acre...
[01:20:47]  High schoolers with submachine guns in gray uniforms.
[01:20:51]  And Daleks with guns wandering the streets.
[01:20:55]  It's chaos!
[01:20:56]  For just $2 a day, though.
[01:20:58]  So Alex does talk a little bit about 9-11 stuff during this period, but not in any way that I feel like, we're going to go ahead and cover this now.
[01:21:07]  But one of the things that I find really fascinating...
[01:21:09]  He's listening to how his tone is so different from the present.
[01:21:14]  When he's asked direct questions like, what happened with 9-11 now?
[01:21:18]  He'll be like, you know what?
[01:21:19]  I don't know.
[01:21:20]  There's not a lot of questions.
[01:21:22]  In 2003, he's like, I know everything.
[01:21:25]  I know names.
[01:21:27]  He made a movie about it.
[01:21:28]  He made multiple movies.
[01:21:31]  He should know about it.
[01:21:32]  He wrote a book.
[01:21:33]  He should know everything.
[01:21:34]  Everything about it.
[01:21:35]  Yeah.
[01:21:35]  He's like, I know everything.
[01:21:36]  Look, we got him dead to rights.
[01:21:38]  We have all the proof.
[01:21:39]  Now in the press, he's like...
[01:21:40]  Yeah, I think I kind of forgot.
[01:21:43]  It is interesting that he's in a place where it's like, somehow he exists in a space where we've learned less in the intervening time from when he started.
[01:21:54]  We've somehow forgotten all the information.
[01:21:56]  About what should be the most important thing for him to understand inside and out.
[01:22:01]  Your entire career is based off of this thing.
[01:22:05]  I find myself...
[01:22:06]  Every now and again remembering that in the present day he doesn't answer direct questions about it, and it gets really funny.
[01:22:14]  It's one of the things that makes this very tolerable.
[01:22:17]  Another thing that makes this tolerable, Jordan.
[01:22:20]  Have we hit the collar that you're excited about?
[01:22:22]  Yes, we have.
[01:22:23]  Mic the fuck down.
[01:22:25]  Grant in Minnesota.
[01:22:26]  Grant, you're on the air worldwide.
[01:22:29]  Speaking of out of control, I was recently just surrounded by the military.
[01:22:34]  An unsigned search warrant looking for bombs and explosives.
[01:22:39]  I was lured away from the court by activists on false charges.
[01:22:45]  And while I was there, I have Siberian tigers on my property.
[01:22:48]  What?
[01:22:49]  While I was there, the military surrounded the place.
[01:22:51]  What?
[01:22:52]  As they were confiscating my tiger cub, the military were high-fiving each other and laughing.
[01:23:02]  Was this in the newspaper?
[01:23:04]  No.
[01:23:05]  We need to call the newspaper.
[01:23:06]  That's very newsworthy.
[01:23:07]  Yeah, no shit.
[01:23:10]  Okay.
[01:23:11]  Are you telling me that all that happened is we just missed out on Tiger King by 20 years because nobody was listening to Alex Jones' show?
[01:23:20]  Is that what's really going on here?
[01:23:21]  This is not Joe Exotic.
[01:23:24]  Yeah, but I was like, holy shit.
[01:23:28]  You can't get calls like this on regular shows.
[01:23:32]  No, you cannot.
[01:23:33]  You have to have a crazy show because you'll get crazy calls.
[01:23:36]  You cannot get this call from Howard Stern.
[01:23:39]  And if you did, it would be an actor.
[01:23:41]  Yeah, it would be bullshit.
[01:23:42]  You wouldn't trust it.
[01:23:43]  There's something about this that I just couldn't resist getting to the bottom of.
[01:23:48]  I was like, I've already spent a bit of time preparing this episode.
[01:23:51]  This is towards the end of May 29th.
[01:23:54]  Fuck it.
[01:23:55]  Starting over.
[01:23:55]  I don't care.
[01:23:56]  It's time for you to save that tiger cub.
[01:23:57]  Exactly.
[01:23:58]  You've got to save that tiger cub.
[01:24:00]  So here, there's a caller on Alex's show who had a Siberian tiger taken away from him in a raid.
[01:24:08]  That's got to be in some newspaper somewhere, right?
[01:24:10]  There's a red alert.
[01:24:11]  That's got to be something.
[01:24:13]  For me, it's like, no way.
[01:24:14]  I had absolutely no idea where to go with this, but I used some clues.
[01:24:18]  I was able to find something that looked promising.
[01:24:21]  So this caller says that he's in Minnesota.
[01:24:23]  Honestly, how many Siberian tiger seizures could there possibly be in Minnesota every year?
[01:24:28]  I don't know.
[01:24:29]  So I found an article in the Albert Lee Tribune from January 2003 about a raid on a house where a female baby tiger was taken, quote, because the owners did not have a permit for possessing the wild animal.
[01:24:40]  This seems like a winner.
[01:24:41]  It seems close.
[01:24:42]  Yeah.
[01:24:43]  It seems close.
[01:24:43]  It's sounding right.
[01:24:45]  The problem though is that the owner of this tiger is a 17-year-old kid who said that his 15-year-old sister is the pet's owner.
[01:24:52]  I don't know much, but I don't believe this caller is 17. No.
[01:24:56]  Then, I read this little nugget in the Tribune article.
[01:24:59]  Quote, Peter also emphasized the past record of the child's father, who has also lived in the house, saying it indicates the family's inability to provide appropriate care for the tiger.
[01:25:09]  The father was barred from having a pet by the court in October 2001 as a penalty for a cruelty to animals conviction.
[01:25:16]  However, the child said his father is not living at the residence anymore.
[01:25:20]  I'm intentionally not using these people's names because as I was getting into this, I had no idea if they are the people who are involved in talking to us.
[01:25:28]  But it was like, how many raids resulting in the confiscation of a baby tiger went down in the first few months of 2003 in Minnesota?
[01:25:34]  I can't imagine that the number's higher than one.
[01:25:37]  And now we know that this is a family business.
[01:25:41]  I found a follow-up article that includes some other bizarre details.
[01:25:46]  Apparently, that whole thing, the tiger seizure, was set in motion because the child, quote, had scratches and bite marks and was falling asleep in class.
[01:25:53]  When asked what was up, he, quote, told a teacher that he lived with a tiger and it smelled bad.
[01:25:59]  Police searched the house and found a malnourished 35-pound tiger cub as well as a bunch of urine Very sad.
[01:26:06]  Poor tiger.
[01:26:07]  I was completely obsessed with this story by this point, so I had to keep looking around.
[01:26:11]  Yeah.
[01:26:12]  If this was the story of this person who's calling into Alex's show, I can match the story to the caller.
[01:26:18]  It was very exciting to me.
[01:26:20]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:26:20]  I can see.
[01:26:21]  I can see.
[01:26:21]  It's palpable.
[01:26:22]  So I was able to find a list put out by PETA of all Tiger Cub-related incidents in the United States, and guess what?
[01:26:28]  This was not the Tiger case that prompted this call to Alex's show.
[01:26:32]  Wow.
[01:26:33]  I was able to find Grant, this caller, on the list from PETA.
[01:26:36]  So that means in the first five months of 2003, there were two Tiger Cub incidents in Minnesota.
[01:26:42]  What are the fucking odds?
[01:26:44]  To be fair, though, I do want to make this clear.
[01:26:46]  The guy who was keeping the Tiger Cub at home with his kid, the story we just talked about, did buy his Tiger from this caller.
[01:26:53]  So there is a connection.
[01:26:55]  I...
[01:26:57]  Knew that there had to be some kind of connection.
[01:27:00]  Yeah, you had to know.
[01:27:04]  Man, that's just awful.
[01:27:06]  So this guy is named Grant, and he ran a business called Tiger Zone, and he's also pretty full of shit about how this didn't make any news outlets.
[01:27:13]  The reason he's in trouble here is that in March 2003, one of his tigers, quote, Jesus Christ!
[01:27:23]  Yeah, so Tiger Zone was a place where people could come and look at exotic animals.
[01:27:28]  Yeah, of course.
[01:27:29]  There had been reports of people being attacked by his cats in the past, but people had been reluctant to press charges until this incident, which led to the downfall of Tiger Zone and a police search of Grant's home where they found some guns.
[01:27:39]  This would not be the end of Grant trying to hurt people with tigers.
[01:27:43]  In 2005, he was arrested after a woman who was employed cleaning up Yeah.
[01:27:50]  Anyway, this guy's lying to Alex about the circumstances of his run-in with the police.
[01:27:54]  And yes, Jordan, you brought up Tiger King.
[01:27:57]  After the success of that documentary, Grant's nephew tried to kickstart a documentary about this whole thing, but it apparently didn't take off.
[01:28:04]  And also, in the Kickstarter, it says, this is not just because Tiger King happened.
[01:28:08]  Yeah, it sounds like that's exactly what you would say if it was just because Tiger King happened.
[01:28:12]  I think that there's probably a very interesting story to what happened with this guy.
[01:28:17]  Because I did watch the trailer for his documentary.
[01:28:20]  And I think that there's probably some experiences of people who are involved that are worth hearing about.
[01:28:26]  Sure.
[01:28:26]  I don't know if it's this guy's daughter or who the person is, but there's someone who's in the trailer talking very passionately about how hard it was to watch people take away these tigers that she knew and cared about as friends or pets.
[01:28:43]  Yeah.
[01:28:44]  And how they were, you know...
[01:28:46]  Treating them very harshly?
[01:28:47]  I think that's a valuable thing to hear about, and people...
[01:28:51]  I don't know.
[01:28:53]  But this guy, he wasn't lured to court by false charges, whereupon the military, looking for bombs, took his tiger cub.
[01:29:02]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:29:04]  Anyway, I would say that the fact that he sold a tiger to this person who was keeping it in their house and the tiger was peeing and shitting in the house and recklessly around this child, it means that he's not necessarily doing due diligence and vetting who is able to adopt these animals.
[01:29:26]  And that to me is a red flag.
[01:29:29]  Along with the multiple people who were attacked by his animals.
[01:29:32]  Man, all kinds of shit's a red flag.
[01:29:34]  I mean, just like, hey, private exotic animal zoo is the biggest red flag I can think of.
[01:29:42]  I don't know if that's actually the case.
[01:29:44]  I mean, I can understand why you think that, and I think a lot of times it is.
[01:29:48]  But I don't want to stigmatize people who do actually take care of animals.
[01:29:53]  No, sure, that's awesome.
[01:29:54]  Yeah, but a lot of times in order to make enough money to provide Of course!
[01:30:04]  I think that there are people who do that responsibly and within the parameters of it's not nuts.
[01:30:11]  I agree.
[01:30:12]  And I would say that it's probably more than the others.
[01:30:15]  I would say there are more people who do it responsibly than irresponsibly.
[01:30:19]  At the same time...
[01:30:20]  Still a red flag to me.
[01:30:22]  That's one of those industries where it's not, I mean, and it's not even like I think it's evil or malicious or anything.
[01:30:28]  It's just like there should always be somebody, there should always be a neutral third-party observer on the ground at all time being like, that's not okay.
[01:30:37]  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
[01:30:38]  That's what it is.
[01:30:39]  And there is.
[01:30:40]  It's one of those industries where you can't even have, like, any self-reporting is just not possible.
[01:30:46]  There are regulations, but it probably needs to be better.
[01:30:50]  Yeah.
[01:30:50]  For reasons of human safety and the welfare of the animals themselves.
[01:30:55]  Yeah, what that guy was doing to that fucking tiger and his kid just is fucking disgusting.
[01:31:01]  Right.
[01:31:01]  And again, just to be totally clear, that is not the caller.
[01:31:04]  Different guy.
[01:31:05]  Although the guy did sell the animal, which is, you know, you're implicated a tiny bit for not being...
[01:31:12]  Like, if you're fucking selling a tiger in Minnesota...
[01:31:16]  You should do a lot of background work on who are you selling this to?
[01:31:20]  Can they possibly take care of a fucking Siberian tiger?
[01:31:25]  Are they a person who's going to put the tiger in their basement?
[01:31:29]  If so, you don't get a tiger!
[01:31:31]  Surprise!
[01:31:32]  So Alex talks to this guy and he's very excited about this story.
[01:31:36]  Oh, of course he is.
[01:31:37]  Because he thinks that there's no media coverage of it or whatever.
[01:31:42]  I think he thinks, like, oh, I got a fresh lead here on some government abuse that's going on.
[01:31:48]  Breaking news, yeah.
[01:31:49]  And so, like, this guy tells his story, or his version of it, and Alex just accepts it unquestioningly.
[01:31:54]  And I think, like, this is kind of bad.
[01:31:57]  So what exactly happened to you, sir?
[01:31:59]  Describe what developed.
[01:32:02]  Activists were, all they have to do is say somebody got scratched, and they'll come in, and all somebody has to do is lie to the police.
[01:32:11]  And this girl lied in court five times on the stand.
[01:32:15]  So it was an endangered species grabber went and lied in court?
[01:32:19]  Yes.
[01:32:20]  I know, I've seen those stories in the press.
[01:32:23]  And so what happened?
[01:32:23]  The troops hit you and hit you hard.
[01:32:25]  So, yeah, this 16-year-old who got attacked by one of his cats just lied.
[01:32:33]  Yep, yep.
[01:32:33]  She lied in court five times and in writing three times, so the story was exactly the same every time, and that's how you know she's lying.
[01:32:41]  Well, I mean, like, hey, you know, this is an interesting way to present a story to Alex Jones.
[01:32:51]  Alex should not just accept immediately, oh, they're lying about what happened, because maybe someone got attacked by a lion.
[01:32:58]  I'm sorry, a tiger.
[01:32:59]  Yeah.
[01:33:00]  I think that it's unquestioningly accepting this guy's version of the story only serves to use them as a prop to push the government's out of control and want to take your Tigers narrative, which is silly.
[01:33:13]  Yeah, and there's a bit of a credibility gap.
[01:33:15]  There's a bit of a credibility gap.
[01:33:17]  Yeah, I think also there's just an inherent issue with...
[01:33:22]  I know that it's 2003 and Alex isn't as...
[01:33:26]  Gross a figure in the public consciousness as he is now at this point.
[01:33:31]  But this guy saw fit to call Alex and talk about this story.
[01:33:35]  And that's an indicator.
[01:33:37]  Yeah, that tells you what kind of reaction he's looking for at the very least.
[01:33:41]  Yeah, or where he would go to get the story out.
[01:33:44]  Where am I going to get a positive spin on this story?
[01:33:47]  Because it won't be anybody legitimate.
[01:33:49]  Yeah.
[01:33:50]  Gotta get those tigers.
[01:33:51]  Yep.
[01:33:51]  Anyway, that was a fun little path of trying to figure out...

=== Two Incidents in Minnesota (03:12) ===

[01:33:56]  I had so many walls I ran into trying to sort out what happened here, and the issue is there were too many...
[01:34:06]  Kernels of information.
[01:34:07]  I'm like, there's no possible way I can't figure out who this guy is.
[01:34:11]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:34:11]  That I just had to keep pushing.
[01:34:13]  Look at how specific this has to be.
[01:34:15]  Yeah.
[01:34:15]  And it happened four times?
[01:34:17]  That's not possible.
[01:34:18]  That's not possible.
[01:34:19]  It can't.
[01:34:19]  No, it can't.
[01:34:20]  It's so weird.
[01:34:21]  Like, there's not other...
[01:34:22]  There aren't other years where multiple instances of tiger incident happened in Minnesota.
[01:34:30]  Look, I know that America has the most...
[01:34:33]  Concentrated number of Tigers just because of private ownership, but it's not like a Minnesota thing.
[01:34:41]  Right?
[01:34:41]  Like, I'm looking over this list, and in 2000, this list from PETA, there were two incidents regarding tigers in Natural Bridge, Virginia.
[01:34:53]  But that's because they both happened at the same zoo.
[01:34:55]  See, there you go!
[01:34:57]  That makes sense!
[01:34:58]  It does.
[01:34:59]  Sort of.
[01:34:59]  It makes sense.
[01:35:00]  It's so nuts that there's two different...
[01:35:04]  Separate stories in Minnesota.
[01:35:07]  I mean, granted, I guess the fact that he sold it makes them connected stories.
[01:35:10]  Right.
[01:35:11]  I mean, you know, but it does make sense.
[01:35:14]  If you've got a disreputable tiger zoo operator who is willing to sell cubs, you are going to find out you have more than one incident about tigers in your region very soon.
[01:35:27]  That is probably a truism.
[01:35:30]  So, here Alex complains about how you'll be arrested for pissant stuff, like in Germany.
[01:35:36]  Yeah.
[01:35:37]  If you don't open your mouth at the dentist, your parents will be arrested or something.
[01:35:40]  Yeah, and then a tiger will bite you.
[01:35:42]  And then Alex says something really fucked up.
[01:35:44]  Binding and arresting parents in Germany and England if they refuse to open their mouths to the dentist.
[01:35:49]  They are doing stuff in Ohio, in Pennsylvania.
[01:35:52]  They take five-year-olds and do genital checks.
[01:35:56]  I caught a Lesbo ring doing it in one area.
[01:35:59]  You all heard about that.
[01:36:00]  A what?
[01:36:04]  A what?
[01:36:05]  Yeah.
[01:36:06]  What is that?
[01:36:07]  That caught me a bit off guard.
[01:36:11]  For what purpose?
[01:36:15]  To whom?
[01:36:16]  And who are they?
[01:36:18]  Also, even leaving aside whatever the reality of this story is, why are you articulating it this way?
[01:36:24]  Why is that the way you're...
[01:36:25]  That doesn't make it...
[01:36:27]  Boo.
[01:36:28]  Boo.
[01:36:29]  So Alex has a hour-plus interview with a guy named Michael Haga.
[01:36:34]  And I don't know who this guy is.
[01:36:35]  He apparently wrote a book that I can't find even by Googling the name of the book.
[01:36:40]  That's not good.
[01:36:41]  I don't know how to spell his last name.
[01:36:42]  That's not great.
[01:36:43]  Haga?
[01:36:43]  How do you spell that?
[01:36:44]  So many ways.
[01:36:45]  Could be any way.
[01:36:46]  Yeah.
[01:36:46]  I tried a number of different spellings.
[01:36:49]  Yeah, E-H.
[01:36:50]  I don't know.
[01:36:52]  And I tried to figure out just like what the bottom line about him was, but I wasn't really that interested, so I don't really mind that I didn't figure it out, because he's just kind of a guy who is the standard New World Order talking points.

=== Why He's Not Google-able (10:33) ===

[01:37:05]  Just kind of someone who's playing a game of boring ping pong with Alex.
[01:37:09]  There's hitting the ball back and forth until...
[01:37:12]  I find it fitting.
[01:37:14]  That he didn't get enough traction from being on Alex's show to penetrate the consciousness to the point where he's even Google-able.
[01:37:21]  So it makes more sense for him to definitely not even penetrate onto our show.
[01:37:25]  True.
[01:37:25]  And I think that I probably would ignore his appearance because it's really boring until they end up taking calls.
[01:37:31]  Oh!
[01:37:32]  Now you're talking.
[01:37:33]  Things do not go well.
[01:37:36]  Mr. Hey Guy, I first started listening to you back around 1992-1993 on the American Freedom Network.
[01:37:43]  Uh-huh.
[01:37:43]  And I listened to you religiously back then.
[01:37:45]  I was working in a bank myself, handling the mutual funds and annuities and other insurance products for the bank.
[01:37:52]  And I took your advice.
[01:37:53]  I got out of the market when I was setting, the Dow Jones was setting a $3,300.
[01:37:58]  And I bought $410, $15 gold, and I'm still waiting for my gold to come back, and the market's been to $11, $6, and back and forth.
[01:38:05]  Bought a few of your books, and I put them up on my bookcase.
[01:38:08]  They're right beside my copies of The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey.
[01:38:13]  So you said in that book that you're a little bit premature.
[01:38:16]  I guess you were about seven or eight years on the peak of the market.
[01:38:20]  I guess what I'm hearing you say today, Mr. Hagin, with all due respect, is anybody that reads Alex Jones' Infowars.net or Infowars.com and stays abreast of the current.
[01:38:34]  Mainstream publications and stuff.
[01:38:36]  I'm not hearing anything new out of you, Mr. Hegel.
[01:38:38]  I'm still waiting for the $3,000 to $5,000 gold.
[01:38:41]  Well, have you been watching gold?
[01:38:44]  Yeah, I've been watching it.
[01:38:45]  I've been watching it for the last nine years, you know.
[01:38:48]  Well, I haven't recommended it that far back.
[01:38:50]  Oh, yeah, you were on American Freedom.
[01:38:52]  I listened to you religiously back then and would call into your talk shows.
[01:38:55]  Well, didn't they start in 1995?
[01:38:59]  What, the...
[01:39:00]  Me on...
[01:39:01]  Yeah, I wasn't even back on the air back then.
[01:39:04]  Oh yeah, you were.
[01:39:05]  American Freedom Administration, I guess.
[01:39:06]  Well, sir, I believe that organization started in 95. I'm not saying you're...
[01:39:09]  Well, they changed their name in 95. They used to be something else.
[01:39:13]  I forget what it was.
[01:39:13]  Okay, well, let me just tell you something.
[01:39:17]  The Davos, Switzerland people said they were going to plunge the dollar.
[01:39:20]  Almost four years ago.
[01:39:21]  Shift to a talking point.
[01:39:22]  Yep.
[01:39:23]  Yeah, so this caller is not happy with Michael Haga.
[01:39:27]  I like it.
[01:39:28]  I like it.
[01:39:29]  I am in.
[01:39:30]  And he is unflappable.
[01:39:31]  No, he does not seem to give a shit.
[01:39:34]  No.
[01:39:35]  I listen to your show.
[01:39:36]  I know the things that you said.
[01:39:39]  Hey, buddy.
[01:39:39]  Hey, come on now.
[01:39:40]  Nice try.
[01:39:40]  You've been lying to me for nine years.
[01:39:42]  I have several dollars worth of gold to prove it.
[01:39:46]  Yeah.
[01:39:47]  So they don't let him talk too much more and just sort of bicker about gold a little bit.
[01:39:52]  Sure.
[01:39:54]  And then they address the question more like once he's gone.
[01:39:58]  Yeah.
[01:39:58]  A little bit of like, yeah, perhaps maybe I was a little bit early on things, but I think as a whole, if you look at the total thing, you know, whatever.
[01:40:07]  Sure.
[01:40:08]  I was like, okay, that's fun.
[01:40:10]  I like that.
[01:40:11]  I want the salty guy to stick around if you're going to have a little conversation.
[01:40:15]  Well, they unfortunately take another call.
[01:40:17]  Oh.
[01:40:18]  All right, let's take a call.
[01:40:20]  Let's talk to John in New York.
[01:40:21]  John, last caller from Michael Haga.
[01:40:23]  Go ahead, sir.
[01:40:24]  Yeah, Mr. Jones.
[01:40:27]  Protecting Mr. Haga, as you did from the last caller, was noble of you.
[01:40:32]  But we read his book.
[01:40:33]  I'm calling you from the economics department at Syracuse University up here in Syracuse, New York.
[01:40:38]  Some of my students have read Mr. Haga's book and used it as a reference.
[01:40:43]  Mr. Haga needs to go back to read his book, Mr. Jones.
[01:40:52]  Oh, now that's a one-two punch that they were not expecting.
[01:40:55]  No.
[01:40:56]  That is so funny.
[01:40:57]  Another caller.
[01:40:58]  That is so funny.
[01:40:59]  Like, fuck you, Michael Hager.
[01:41:00]  One more caller.
[01:41:01]  Hey, we're going to go.
[01:41:02]  Last caller for Michael Hager.
[01:41:03]  Fuck you!
[01:41:04]  Ah, well, that's going to be it for Michael Hager.
[01:41:07]  I'm sorry.
[01:41:07]  Calling you from the economics department of Syracuse University, and Michael Hager can go fuck himself.
[01:41:13]  So I wanted to play more of this caller, but there isn't much of it because it just deteriorates into yelling.
[01:41:22]  Alex just yells over him and doesn't allow any points to be made.
[01:41:26]  Creates a false version of the things that he's saying in order to be like, I don't even know what that guy was saying!
[01:41:32]  He's nuts!
[01:41:33]  That guy was nuts!
[01:41:34]  And maybe, just maybe, Alex is still being very nice to Michael Haga in this interview and everything, but maybe...
[01:41:46]  Some of that negative response has something to do with why we don't know who he is.
[01:41:50]  That could have something to do with it.
[01:41:51]  Yeah.
[01:41:52]  Maybe the audience, not thrilled with the idea of this guy being on, and Alex will take note of that and not have him back on as much in the future.
[01:42:02]  Because I also, honestly, if I were Alex, I wouldn't have him on.
[01:42:06]  And not because, just strictly from the negative reaction, but he isn't bringing much else to the table that you don't get from.
[01:42:15]  What Alex is saying, or anybody else he could have on.
[01:42:19]  He's like, oh, the Federal Reserve is bad.
[01:42:21]  Oh my god, I can't get a hundred other people to say that.
[01:42:25]  So the benefit of having him on is kind of dwarfed by clearly the negative phone calls.
[01:42:32]  And I thought that was pretty fun.
[01:42:33]  That's so fun.
[01:42:34]  At the end of this episode, the 29th, just being this, like, pile on Michael Haga and a caller who had his fucking tiger taken away.
[01:42:42]  So good.
[01:42:42]  What fun.
[01:42:43]  What a good day.
[01:42:44]  Yeah.
[01:42:45]  What a good day.
[01:42:45]  And he doesn't think it is!
[01:42:47]  But it's a great day!
[01:42:48]  You can't, like, you can't prepare for what you're gonna get.
[01:42:53]  Alex Jones in 2003 is like a box of chocolates.
[01:42:58]  That is so...
[01:42:59]  I would almost imagine if I was planning a show where I knew Alex was going to have a gold guy on, I would have a giant button with an X on it for if an econ professor called.
[01:43:12]  Just like a button I could run to, press, technical difficulties, just a thin line, just...
[01:43:19]  I agree with you, but from Michael Haga's presentation of himself, he's not like a super gold guy.
[01:43:26]  He's not one of those guys who's like a lot of Alex's other people who are strictly gold people.
[01:43:31]  He's not a Chapman.
[01:43:32]  No.
[01:43:32]  Yeah.
[01:43:33]  But he is apparently had some opinions about gold over the years.
[01:43:37]  It's unclear.
[01:43:39]  Yeah.
[01:43:39]  Yeah.
[01:43:40]  They didn't let that one caller speak as peacefully, and I think if they had, I'd have a better sense.
[01:43:44]  Or if this guy was Google-able at all.
[01:43:46]  Right, right.
[01:43:47]  Well, I imagine from what that guy said is he was invested in the Dow when it was up high, and the guy was like, it's gonna collapse, and you should put it all into gold.
[01:43:55]  Gold's going to skyrocket up to $3,000 an ounce or whatever it is.
[01:43:59]  Yes.
[01:43:59]  And then you'll be a billionaire, and the guy was like, the Dow is at $11,000, dickhole, and gold is at fucking nothing!
[01:44:06]  Yeah, or it's up a little bit, but it didn't move.
[01:44:08]  Nearly as much as...
[01:44:10]  Yeah.
[01:44:10]  That's the sense that I got for sure.
[01:44:13]  And that does seem like the kind of thing that people in the right-wing space especially...
[01:44:19]  It happens to them a lot.
[01:44:20]  Yeah.
[01:44:21]  Yeah.
[01:44:22]  Like Alex in Nigerian Princes, right-wingers and gold scams are always together.
[01:44:28]  Yep.
[01:44:28]  They walk hand in hand.
[01:44:29]  Oh, yeah.
[01:44:30]  So, Jordan, we've come to the end of this adventure in 2003 and...
[01:44:36]  Some of that stuff was fun.
[01:44:37]  But I also think it's very valuable to recognize these little glimpses where Alex speaks a little bit more about his positions that we kind of got the sense were admirable, like his opposition to the death penalty or preference for drug legalization.
[01:44:54]  These things are things that you can agree with, I guess, in terms of like the end result of them.
[01:45:00]  Sure.
[01:45:00]  But you can't agree with how you get there.
[01:45:03]  Yeah.
[01:45:03]  And because you can't agree with how you get there, you actually can't agree on the end result.
[01:45:08]  Because for me, I think the end result of opposition to death penalty execution is opposition to it.
[01:45:17]  Full stop.
[01:45:18]  Right.
[01:45:18]  For Alex, clearly that is not the case.
[01:45:21]  Because we can see that his opposition is based in a distrust of...
[01:45:27]  Some people who are running the federal government, and if those circumstances change, then he is now totally fine with executions.
[01:45:35]  And he's fine with executions on a state level.
[01:45:37]  So, like, there isn't actually agreement.
[01:45:39]  He is, for all intents and purposes, a pro-death penalty person.
[01:45:44]  Yeah.
[01:45:44]  Just, he has some...
[01:45:46]  doesn't like Bush or Clinton.
[01:45:48]  Yeah.
[01:45:49]  I mean, the thing that gets me about that, though, is that it's like, because he's so malicious, And so, I suppose, fungible on just about anything.
[01:46:03]  Like, no matter what it is you agree with him on, he doesn't care about anything other than...
[01:46:10]  Finding a way to give himself and white men more power.
[01:46:15]  So even if you can't agree with him on an issue and then come together or even work together or anything towards that, because if he's given any access, he's going to take whatever access he's given and funnel it towards the point of white male dominance.
[01:46:32]  So even, you know, it's like there's not even an issue that you can talk to him about because his only issue...
[01:46:39]  Beyond all the takes on the news of the day, the end result of all of this should be white men running everything, me specifically.
[01:46:47]  Yeah, and you even get that from other issues that he ends up covering during this time.
[01:46:53]  It's like he's complaining about these clicker ticket things, and it's like, well, they have these stops, and they only stop white people.
[01:47:00]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:47:01]  That's your concern?
[01:47:03]  Yep, sure.
[01:47:03]  All right.
[01:47:04]  Great.
[01:47:04]  He was talking about immigration a little bit, and like...
[01:47:07]  His concern about immigration rules, like, they're gonna, you know, it's like, all of your jobs are gonna be, you're gonna make less.

=== Bottlenecks of Ideology (01:09) ===

[01:47:16]  All of it does.
[01:47:17]  There's ghost towns in Germany that they're bringing immigrants into to run, like, he even said they're replacing, you know, it's like, Jesus Christ.
[01:47:25]  Yeah.
[01:47:26]  We get it.
[01:47:26]  You're a white nationalist.
[01:47:28]  All bottlenecks of his ideology go there, bottlenecks there, and everything about action and specific things that can stop.
[01:47:36]  Any of this is promote my shit.
[01:47:39]  Yep.
[01:47:39]  And then eventually, of course, once he starts selling pills...
[01:47:42]  There we go.
[01:47:43]  Cash, cash, cash, cash.
[01:47:44]  The only solution to globalism is...
[01:47:48]  Supplements.
[01:47:49]  Yep.
[01:47:50]  Yep.
[01:47:50]  And...
[01:47:52]  Bad documentaries.
[01:47:54]  Anyway, Jordan, we'll be back.
[01:47:55]  But until then, we have a website.
[01:47:56]  We do have a website.
[01:47:57]  It's KnowledgeFight.com.
[01:47:58]  We're also on Twitter.
[01:47:59]  We are on Twitter.
[01:47:59]  It's at KnowledgeFight and at GoToBedJordan.
[01:48:01]  Yep, we're also on Facebook.
[01:48:02]  We are on Facebook.
[01:48:03]  If you're down on the side, you could please find a local charity or bail fund in your area to help out people doing God's work right now.
[01:48:09]  We'll be back.
[01:48:09]  But until then, I'm Neo.
[01:48:10]  I'm Leo.
[01:48:11]  I'm DZX Clark.
[01:48:12]  I'm Daryl Rundis.
[01:48:13]  No grandchildren for you!
[01:48:15]  Andy in Kansas.
[01:48:15]  You're on the air.
[01:48:16]  Thanks for holding.
[01:48:19]  Alex, I'm a first time caller.
[01:48:20]  I'm a huge fan.
[01:48:21]  I love your work.