#559: Noam Man's Land
Today, Dan and Jordan dig deep into the past to cover something they forgot to cover long ago. In this installment, Alex Jones has one of the most confusing interviews of his career with Noam Chomsky.
May 21, 2021 - Knowledge Fight
01:22:31
Participants
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Knowledge Fight. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Knowledge Fight. | |
| I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys. | ||
| Knowledge Fight. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Dan and George. | |
| Knowledge fight. | ||
| I need, I need money. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Stop it. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| It's time to pray. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thanks for holding. | |
| Hello, Alex. | ||
| I'm a first time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your room. | ||
| Knowledge fight. | ||
| Knowledgefight.com. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I love you. | |
| Hey everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight, I'm Dan. | ||
| I'm Jordan. | ||
| We're a couple dudes who like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. | ||
| Oh, indeed we are, Dan. | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| Dan! | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| We are also masters of crushing a bit after several weeks of practicing it. | ||
| But I don't like you drawing attention to it. | ||
| I know, but you did such a great job. | ||
| Well, thanks. | ||
| It was a perfect line read. | ||
| I don't appreciate positive feedback. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| Well, what do you appreciate, Dan? | ||
| Because my question is, what is your bright spot this week? | ||
| Well, my bright spot, Jordan, we talked about how we should probably inform the good people about this, and my bright spot is... | ||
| After four and a half years, I've decided to take a vacation. | ||
| Yes, yep, yep. | ||
|
unidentified
|
For the first time in a very long time. | |
| I mean, it's debatable. | ||
| I guess I've taken a few days off here and there. | ||
| Staycations, if you will. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| I went to visit my parents for a holiday. | ||
| Not quite a vacation. | ||
| Not quite. | ||
| We went to Austin to do a live show. | ||
| Sure, that's definitely not a vacation. | ||
| That's a work trip. | ||
| We got to fucking write it off on our taxes, Dan. | ||
| It was a work trip. | ||
| I don't really know how to relax. | ||
| I'm not really good at that. | ||
| But finally, we've decided to take a vacation. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| So you and I and your partner are actually going together next week. | ||
| We will be going to Hawaii for a week. | ||
| Ah, visiting your homeland! | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| A big part of this is I've been meaning to take a trip back to my childhood home in Honolulu and see some of the sights like Ali'i Alani Elementary School and go down to Waikiki Beach and kick around the old haunts. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| I don't have any old haunts. | ||
| It's going to be great! | ||
| Sometimes you're going to stay in your hotel. | ||
| Until late at night by yourself, staring up at the ceiling thinking, what if I were working right now? | ||
| Wouldn't that be better? | ||
| I don't doubt that will be the case. | ||
| But also, this is relevant because the next three episodes we're going to have to prepare in advance of taking off for vacation. | ||
| So hopefully the schedule of release won't be affected at all, but you'll notice that they will be maybe... | ||
| Hey, let's say something happens in the world. | ||
| We may not be aware of it. | ||
| We may not know, because we're in the past. | ||
| Trump might rise back to power. | ||
| It'd be a real bummer. | ||
| And we will not know. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think if anything super crazy happens, we'll probably break into a recording studio somewhere and be like, Hey, we gotta put out two hours now! | ||
| It's an emergency! | ||
| What if we had gone on vacation on, like, January 4th? | ||
|
unidentified
|
We have episodes coming out and we wouldn't be aware that the Capitol had been stormed. | |
| Be very strange. | ||
| That's what I'm saying. | ||
| That would be strange. | ||
| We're going to have to pre-record a few. | ||
| And thank you in advance for that. | ||
| Oh, indeed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely. | |
| How about you, Jordan? | ||
| What's your bright spot? | ||
| My bright spot, Dan, is at my partner school. | ||
| As you know, my partner is a teacher at school, to be unnamed. | ||
| But basically... | ||
| Their new principal started at the beginning of this year, or the school year, so last year. | ||
| And she has proven herself to be a giant racist piece of shit. | ||
| Like, really, really bad. | ||
| Good thing you're not naming this school. | ||
| Yeah, to the point where all of the BIPOC staff and students have essentially just gone on fucking revolt. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| This shit is unsustainable. | ||
| And so today... | ||
| These kids organized a fucking sit-in and then later on a walkout. | ||
| And my partner sent me a little clip of it and the BIPOC students leading this shit are... | ||
| Absolutely astonishing. | ||
| At a certain point, all these kids are chanting, protect our teachers, protect our teachers, and I'm, like, weeping my balls off. | ||
| Like, these kids are incredible. | ||
| Great. | ||
| Like, truly incredible, and that's my bright spot. | ||
| That's very inspirational. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| Well, good on them. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| So, Jordan, today we have an interesting situation to get into, because as I mentioned... | ||
| We're going to be pre-recording some episodes, and that's going to make it more difficult to be in the present day, keeping up with Alex. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| It had been my plan to stay in the past, in 2003 probably, for those episodes. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And so I didn't want to do a 2003 episode here today. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so I was like, alright, present day, let's see what Alex is going into. | ||
| Let's do this. | ||
| Look, Alex has been on vacation. | ||
| Why don't we quarter? | ||
| He needs to let us know. | ||
| We always have in the past. | ||
| He needs to let us know. | ||
| Every time we're gone, he's gone. | ||
| This is infuriating. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't accept this whatsoever. | ||
| Owen Schroyer's been hosting all this week. | ||
| And I, look, I understand that the situation with Israel-Palestine is a big deal. | ||
| I do understand that. | ||
| I don't care what Owen Schroer has to say about it. | ||
| Oh, absolutely not. | ||
| I'm interested in the Infowars position and exactly how this is a false flag and what have you, but I'm only going to take it from Alex. | ||
| I'm not going to listen to an hour and a half of Owen Schroer to get a sense of it. | ||
| I really don't need to hear Owen say what amounts to, none of this is real, it's all Palestine actually attacking themselves, and even if Israel was committing genocide, I support that. | ||
| That's what he said! | ||
| I'm not interested in hearing any of that nonsense from Owen, but there is an update I need to give you about the present day. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| There is a certain PSYOP expert that's been subtly sneaking his way back onto the show. | ||
| Get the fuck out of here! | ||
| They cannot quit him! | ||
| Alex has been out of town and he's been showing up with Owen. | ||
| Yeah, so Steve Pachetik is creeping back, and he's just flattering the shit out of Owen. | ||
| I watched their interview, and he's like, oh, you're the best. | ||
| Of course! | ||
| Goddammit, these idiots can be tricked in the same way all the time. | ||
| I also noticed that when I was watching this interview, I noticed that Steve was reading a lot. | ||
| He's clearly looking down at something. | ||
| So when he's rattling off a lot of these details and stuff, a lot of it is probably... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, I feel like somehow we're thinking of this as a negative thing, but being a guest and being by far more prepared than anything that your host has ever done seems like a positive to me. | ||
| I don't disagree, and I support preparation. | ||
| I just think that the way that Steve uses specifics and things like that is to... | ||
| Create the impression of familiarity. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| He creates the impression of familiarity with the staff of various administrations and stuff like that in a way that it would be kind of not as impressive that he knows people's names if it's on a sheet of paper in front of him. | ||
| True. | ||
| So that kind of preparation kind of cuts through what he's trying to use his appearance and the way he's trying to present himself. | ||
| And rattling off details gives him the appearance of having a recall. | ||
| That is astonishing. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| How can one man possibly pull all of these things out of his ass? | ||
| How can he be making up all of this? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And I don't know. | ||
| There was an interesting thing, too, that for years, Steve wouldn't appear on video. | ||
| He would only be on the phone, and there would be a picture of him from when he was much younger. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| With a weird mustache. | ||
| Yeah, he should go back to that. | ||
| Yeah, but I wonder if that was because back in those times, he had a bunch of files in front of him, and he didn't want to be on video. | ||
| That's possible. | ||
| I wonder about that. | ||
| And I never really thought about that because I never really watched too closely. | ||
| But his eyes were... | ||
| Definitely reading. | ||
| I would also accept it wasn't until the pandemic that he insisted that some child in his neighborhood go set up Zoom for him so he can accurately... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I know that his wife is on Tech Detail. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| If you do go to his YouTube channel, you can see her pressing the start and stop buttons sometimes. | ||
| That is very pretty. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And cute. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Unfortunately. | ||
| It's unfortunately humanizing of a real weirdo. | ||
| Yes, it's infuriating. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it's very... | ||
| Very cute. | ||
| So I guess what that leaves us with is possibly, I mean, I don't know. | ||
| I don't know if Alex will be back in time for us to record anything in the present day before our trip. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So we may be getting back to Alex in the present day when we get back. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it also put me in a bind of not really knowing exactly where to go for this episode. | ||
| Luckily, I found something, and we'll get to it. | ||
| After we say hello to some wonks. | ||
| Nicely done. | ||
| So first, Sheila B., the Garden Queen. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thanks, Sheila! | ||
| Thank you! | ||
| Next, Kimmy from Seattle. | ||
| This is a shout-out and a wonk title going to you. | ||
| I appreciate you getting around the world into the show. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you! | ||
| Thank you, Kimmy. | ||
| Next, Uncle Patch's CPA. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thanks, Uncle Patches. | ||
| Next, Branigan. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Next, Down with the Tyrant King Jared. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Next, Sasha. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thanks, Sasha. | ||
| Next, Near Free Advertising for God's Eternal Wrath. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much! | ||
| Et cetera. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Now, Jordan, we had to do a little bit of business here, and that is, you know, sometimes you got to take it on the chin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Sometimes, you know, you just got to take that punch as it comes. | ||
| Naturally. | ||
| You realize that you have messed up. | ||
| Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. | ||
| What is a plan but God laughing at you? | ||
| That's true. | ||
| Or something? | ||
| How does that work? | ||
| God laughs at man. | ||
| No, man plans while God laughs. | ||
| That's what it is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You got it. | ||
| So anyway. | ||
| What a shitty God who's gonna laugh at anybody for planning. | ||
| No, but it's like that, oh, I love this guy so much. | ||
| Isn't it cute that he's planning? | ||
| Yeah, maybe give him a better plan! | ||
| It's paternal. | ||
| Don't laugh at him! | ||
| That's laughing at a homeless person! | ||
| God is laughing at a houseless person, and it's fucking offensive. | ||
| I'm offended by God. | ||
| Let's take God's house. | ||
| I think we should! | ||
| Anyway, my point is that we have a couple of April birthdays. | ||
| I might have missed a couple of April birthdays. | ||
| Don't worry about it. | ||
| So, Katie, happy birthday back in April. | ||
| Happy birthday! | ||
| This is from your husband, Nodbard. | ||
| He wants to wish you a happy birthday. | ||
| I hope you had a great birthday. | ||
| I do, too. | ||
| Also, I fucked up on this one. | ||
| Tanya, happy birthday back in April. | ||
| Happy birthday, Tanya. | ||
| That's totally on me. | ||
| I need to do a better job of managing inboxes. | ||
| Nah, you're doing great. | ||
| Not all is trouble. | ||
| Because we also have a presentation. | ||
| Hey, see? | ||
| There we go! | ||
| This is coming from Savannah. | ||
| Savannah wanted me to give a shout-out to their spouse, Shoshanna, and wish Shoshanna a happy birthday. | ||
| So, happy birthday. | ||
| Happy birthday, Shoshanna. | ||
| Hope you're having a great one out there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Perfect. | |
| Now, Jordan, we couldn't do the past. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| We couldn't do the present. | ||
| No. | ||
| We can do the middle past? | ||
| I felt like that might be too confusing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| We had to do a bottle episode. | ||
| Okay, we gotta do a bottle episode. | ||
| Jim Baker still bums me out. | ||
| I can't quite go back to that well. | ||
| Project Camelot, I think she got kicked off YouTube, and now is back to a membership model. | ||
| And so I don't know about the ethics of using... | ||
| Once again. | ||
| Yeah, I'm back to being on shaky ground. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| And so that leaves us in a bit of a pickle. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| We need a bottle episode. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Gotta do something. | ||
| I was like, is there anything that I've been meaning to do? | ||
| Review that bottle episode of Breaking Bad that everybody loves so much about the fly? | ||
| No. | ||
| I have some thoughts. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But no, that's not what we're doing here today. | ||
| There is something that listeners have constantly been like, did you ever do that? | ||
| And we hadn't. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Welcome back, my friends. | ||
| The second hour of the broadcast. | ||
| We're going to be joined by Noam Chomsky coming up here in just a couple minutes. | ||
| Yeah, that's right. | ||
| The Noam Chomsky interview. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| What are we doing? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I feel so weird about this. | ||
| In 2001, pre-9-11, Noam Chomsky appeared on InfoWars. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| The Alex Jones program. | ||
| Noam Chomsky. | ||
| The linguist? | ||
| Not the very short, shows up in your house in the middle of the night, makes you cookies? | ||
| Noam with a G. Yes. | ||
| No. | ||
| No. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That is not Gnome Chomsky. | |
| All right. | ||
| It is the noted intellectual. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| This actually is one of the more interesting interviews that I've ever heard on Infowars. | ||
| For a couple of reasons. | ||
| One, this is pre-9-11 Alex Jones. | ||
| Sure, he doesn't have the cachet of predicting 9-11 yet. | ||
| I also think that he doesn't have nearly as much of the... | ||
| He doesn't have as much notoriety. | ||
| I don't think that people who might be invited to be on his show know much about him. | ||
| True. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And so you have that. | |
| I take it Noam does not know that Alex is fighting the literal devil. | ||
| I don't know if Alex knows that. | ||
| We haven't established that at what point he became aware that he was up against Beelzebub. | ||
| You know, I think earliest days in his career, a lot of it was based around making big publicity stunts about trying to get the church... | ||
| Of course! | ||
| Do they actually? | ||
| No, of course they do. | ||
| Alex and Noam, best buds. | ||
| They agree about a lot of sort of the surface level of things. | ||
| But when you get down to sort of what their beliefs are based on, there's a little bit of difference. | ||
| And this interview could have been amazing, and it could have been great, and it is not. | ||
| It ends very poorly. | ||
| Oh, no! | ||
| Does it end in a fight? | ||
| I'll let you decide. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| All right. | ||
| So Alex reads a little bit of a bio. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| He's a professor of linguistics. | ||
| And he's written books like Manufacturing Consent, an excellent video, also called, titled Manufacturing Consent. | ||
| And it goes into how they stage things. | ||
| They will have a supposed debate on television, but the people debating are actually on the same side. | ||
| They're just debating the exact implementation by just a few degrees, giving you the psychological illusion that there's really some type of difference so that in your mind, you're going to fall in supposedly either phony camp being steered in the direction they wish. | ||
| Now that's how I put it. | ||
| Chomsky does it in a little more sophisticated fashion, but they do this all the time. | ||
| Manufacturing consent is about the media, but it's not necessarily about staging events or false flags or that kind of stuff, the way Alex is kind of leading it and presenting that. | ||
| The general thesis of Chomsky's book, largely co-written by Edward Herman, is that the media engages in self-censoring of ideas that are opposed to the interests of the elite corporations in such a way that encourages acceptance of the policies being put in place by the government, which support those interests, often to the detriment of what's in the interest of normal people. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's more complicated than what even what I'm presenting, but that's a large part of what Chomsky and Herman called the propaganda model. | |
| It doesn't rely on coercion to operate. | ||
| Rather, it's a product of just market forces. | ||
| There's a structural conflict of interest in how the media is organized that creates a disconnect between conveying all of the information that's where Right. | ||
| This is the general... | ||
| 30,000 foot view of manufacturing consent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| If the media were capable of reporting correctly, they would be reporting every single day that we should do everything we can to destroy their billionaire owners. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Otherwise, their entire journalism is pointless. | |
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't think I would be qualified to give a full breakdown of the ideas in that text, but I can tell you that I'm also certain that Alex has not read it. | ||
| The propaganda model includes five filters, which are theorized as being determinative about whether certain news is represented in the larger media. | ||
| The first four are ownership, funding, sources, and flack. | ||
| Alex could probably find agreement on those four, but he absolutely could not accept the fifth, which is anti-communism. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh! | |
| Boom! | ||
| We got a strikeout! | ||
| Somehow it's a one-pitch strikeout. | ||
| Oh, difficult. | ||
| Anti-communism was the preferred media fear outlet in the time that the book was first published. | ||
| During the Cold War... | ||
| Never went out of style, buddy. | ||
| For some people. | ||
| Never went out of style! | ||
| During the Cold War, the mass media wasn't going to give a serious chance to an outlet that went at odds with a prevailing narrative, which was to be afraid of the commies. | ||
| In more recent times, Chomsky has recontextualized this filter to update it to the Times, where the war on terror is more relevant as a media filter after 9-11 than anti-communism. | ||
| Yeah, of course. | ||
| Alex could probably agree that large portions of the media have the same opinion on big issues like the war on terror, and that possibly it was meant to scare people into accepting policies they wouldn't maybe otherwise, but he absolutely could. | ||
| never accept that anti-communist fervor during the Cold War was in any way part of that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
His entire personality and worldview is based on that. | |
| Everything that is built is crumbled if you accept that. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think that's kind of interesting because I think what happens is that Alex has a predetermined set of beliefs and he's just decided that Chomsky backs those up. | |
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Or at least enough of them that he can make... | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| So, Alex talks, before getting into the actual interview, more about his... | ||
| This is 2001, so this is where he's at in terms of the similarities between the left and the right. | ||
| They're the same. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Democrats, Republicans. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure. | ||
| And I would argue that this is an indication to me that it's always been very surface level. | ||
| It's like Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative. | ||
| Liberals, conservatives, you look at what they do at the top, they're all the same people. | ||
| The political left has secret police that wear black uniforms and ski masks. | ||
| The political right has police that wear black uniforms and ski masks around the world. | ||
| They just have the police. | ||
| Centralized government. | ||
| And they tell you to be in the middle of that system. | ||
| More semantical deceptions. | ||
| I think what's strange here is that, like, I could hear somebody saying, like, the left and the right are saying they all wear black ski masks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| And it being a metaphor. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| From Alex, I don't think it is. | ||
| No, it's absolutely direct. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think it's literal. | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| If he does not believe that they actually have secret police, then I don't know what anything is real anymore. | ||
| I don't know what's true or what's false. | ||
| That man believes everyone has secret police and ski masks. | ||
| He believes that, like, uh... | ||
| That's my foundational belief system. | ||
| He believes that... | ||
| Small corporations even have SWAT teams and stuff at this point. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| It's very strange. | ||
| I don't even want to know what army he thinks AT&T has. | ||
| Oh, huge. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, yeah, I just, I come away from clips like that with a feeling that, like, I don't know how in-depth any of this assessment of... | ||
| Like, the similarities between left and right are. | ||
| Because I do think you can make a decent argument that there are similarities. | ||
| Obviously, there are entwined interests. | ||
| There are similar priorities in some ways, but there are also huge fucking differences. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| And I don't understand how Alex never really gives voice to those differences. | ||
| Or ignores them. | ||
| Because the differences make it look like the people that he actually supports are bad. | ||
| Oh, yeah, that's right. | ||
| It is hard to be like, well, okay, there's one difference between Democrats and Republicans. | ||
| Democrats do want people to eat food. | ||
| I was kind of maybe being facetious when I said I don't know why. | ||
| I realized that I didn't even know that I was being facetious. | ||
| I kind of get it. | ||
| Anyway, here comes Chomsky into the debate. | ||
| It's not a debate. | ||
| Just a conversation. | ||
| And they do have some agreement. | ||
| And this is a little bit longer clip, but that's because John speaks in full sentences. | ||
| Ooh, no! | ||
| Dangerous! | ||
| Dangerous! | ||
| Alex lets him speak in full sentences? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| This is where he learned his lesson right here. | ||
| Two and a half minute clip here. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I would call it almost a Matrix-like system where 98% of people don't even know the real parameters of power that surround them. | ||
| Phony paradigms and systems of phony left, right, with all the roads leading towards a centralized, highly controlled corporate bureaucracy. | ||
| I agree with that. | ||
| But I think the only thing I would add as a kind of a footnote is that that marginalization of the public that you're describing is quite purposeful and conscious, self-conscious. | ||
| So especially through the 20th, actually it goes back to the founding of the country, but it's particularly in the 20th century. | ||
| There has been a very self-conscious, explicit effort. | ||
| I mean, you don't have to make it up. | ||
| Nothing speculative, but the leaders say so. | ||
| Business leaders, intellectuals, academic, social scientists, and others say that it is important to keep the public out of things. | ||
| It's important to ensure that the public remain what are called spectators, not participants. | ||
| They are supposed to be directed. | ||
| That led to other concerns and not to interfere with policy formation. | ||
| That is a major phenomenon developed in the more democratic countries, in the United States and England particularly, through the 20th century. | ||
| And the reason was very clear. | ||
| By the early 20th century, it was becoming very difficult to control people by other means. | ||
| The voting franchise was extended. | ||
| Labor unions were developing. | ||
| Women were demanding the vote. | ||
| I mean, the countries, especially England and the United States, were simply becoming more democratic. | ||
| And it was recognized early on that if you can't control people by force or, you know, poverty or some other means, you are going to have to control them by what was quite openly called propaganda at the time. | ||
| People don't like the term propaganda anymore, but that was used. | ||
| I mean, that's where the U.S. public relations is. | ||
| It grows out of these experiences and this understanding, and it is very explicit. | ||
| Professor Chomsky, they developed, put out their papers that I've read from the Carnegie Endowment and others that mind control, behavioral modification, is much cheaper and much more effective than tanks and guns. | ||
| And it's the only thing you can do because in the more democratic countries, you can't control people with tanks and guns. | ||
| I mean, maybe to some limited extent, but not very much. | ||
| So one thing that I think is really key here is to notice where there is a salient agreement between the two. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And also the way that those two things are fully, differently understood by the two parties. | ||
| Oh, absolutely. | ||
| They are not talking about the same thing whatsoever. | ||
| No. | ||
| I think that there is... | ||
| What Chomsky's bringing to the table is ideas about wanting to keep people disengaged from some public... | ||
| lead corporations'interests. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| And in so much as that is in their interest, then, you know, not having all information fully disseminated works to those goals. | ||
| No, Bannon didn't invent muddying the waters. | ||
| Like, propaganda, especially the United States propaganda, has been rocking that boat for a long time. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| What is early roots of advertising other than that? | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| What is social media influencers in our day? | ||
| What are... | ||
| Any kind of publicist. | ||
| You know? | ||
| A lot of that stuff is just perception management. | ||
| Your job is propaganda. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I think that there is a real conversation that can be had. | ||
| And I think that, you know, I obviously wouldn't necessarily take this tack, but someone could say that if literally everybody was engaged in decision-making about every issue, it would be impossible for a society to function. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And maybe to... | ||
| A limit, there is an argument that can be made for, you know, people being disengaged is more productive. | ||
| It is actually a better organizational model. | ||
| I'm not advocating that, but I could see someone making that point, and I could see Chomsky having an interesting conversation with them. | ||
| Alex, on the other hand, his beliefs veer so much into the vaccines are meant to make us dumb, they poison us in our food, and all this. | ||
| That even this point of agreement is a point of departure for the two of them. | ||
| And I find that very weird to look at. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, it does sound like Noam Chomsky is describing the phenomena of the government destroying the ability of the electorate to honestly engage with their actions. | ||
| And Alex responded, so obviously you're talking about mind control. | ||
| And I think, you know, I don't have a good enough glimpse of Alex at 2001, although based on, you know, the present day, I would guess that he means like someone putting a pendulum. | ||
| No, he means mind control. | ||
| He means legitimate mind control. | ||
| You look into my spinning thing. | ||
| Yeah, I think so, but I think that the way, you know, someone like his guest would interact with that is taking that as metaphor. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| If Alex was like, hey, so you're in agreement with me, they're putting computer chips inside everybody's brain to make them do what they tell them to, and no one would have gone, that is not what I'm saying at all! | ||
| But I don't know if that's what Alex is saying back at this point. | ||
| That's one of the parts that is kind of challenging about this, is you can hear that from Alex even as metaphor, as flourish of speaking, as opposed to it being like, I have you under my control, lift your right arm. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I think that does kind of point out one big issue, though, is that... | ||
| All too often, we just assume people are capable of metaphor. | ||
| Well, it's interesting that he's talking to a linguist. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| This is borderline the Turing test. | ||
| That is what's going on. | ||
| It's borderline Alex trying to fool a computer into thinking he's human. | ||
| Chomsky is shockingly charitable with Alex. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course. | |
| And I think it's to his credit, in hindsight. | ||
| He's a good interviewee. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So Alex talks about how Bush and Clinton, this is going to have to be, yeah, I guess it would be... | ||
| George W. Bush, because he just got elected at this point. | ||
| And Clinton had just been given the boot. | ||
| Yeah, and Alex talks about how they're the same based on a very specific set of axes. | ||
| Well, take Bush and Clinton. | ||
| They have the exact same policies on land grabbing, selling out sovereignty, de-industrialization, drugging the children, but you ask the average person, they have this cult-like Well, what i call the same it's really two corporate management teams bidding for control of the c_e_o_ job of the new world order maybe I'm naive, but I have more faith in the public than that. | ||
| My feeling is that the general public is rather well aware of this, and I think it shows up in the... | ||
| There's a lot of public opinion study in the United States, mainly because business wants to keep its... | ||
| finger on the public polls thing. | ||
| I want to know what people are thinking. | ||
| So we have a pretty trustworthy and very extensive polling industry. | ||
| And what comes out of public attitudes, I think, is kind of revealing. | ||
| So for the last 20 years or so, about 80% of the population, when they're asked, what do you think the country, you know, who runs the government or what does it do? | ||
| The answer that they pick out of a set of choices is... | ||
| The government works for the few and the special interests, not the people. | ||
| So Chomsky is coming at this with the perspective of like, alright, a lot of people are aware of this. | ||
| There's a different problem that needs to be addressed. | ||
| And that'll come up a little bit later in the interview. | ||
| But Alex, his selected criteria upon which Clinton and Bush are the same is weird to me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's very suspiciously specific. | |
| And unfairly articulated. | ||
| No, no, no, no. | ||
| They're both land grabbers. | ||
| They both eat children. | ||
| And then they move on. | ||
| Wait, what? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hold on. | |
| Did you say they eat children? | ||
| Land grabbing, I assume, is code for conservation. | ||
| Either that or eminent domain. | ||
| Yeah, that could be at this point, too. | ||
| At that point, I bet Eminent Domain was huge on Alex's mind. | ||
| Yeah, that could be. | ||
| That could be. | ||
| And also, I don't know if Bush's early record with EPA stuff was necessarily all that good. | ||
| Oh, not good. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Drugging the children is the one that's like, okay, you're just talking about like... | ||
| Psychiatric meds or something? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, absolutely. | |
| You're talking about Ritalin? | ||
| I heard him talking about Ritalin, because that was a huge... | ||
| But it's not like Bush is putting people on Ritalin. | ||
| No, Bush was cramming Ritalin down everybody's throat. | ||
| You forgot the No Child Left Behind was... | ||
| The parentheses was with Ritalin. | ||
| I mean, obviously, I think that there's over-prescription of meds. | ||
| We've talked about that in the past. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I just don't know exactly what he expects Clinton or Bush to do about it. | ||
| Does he want to make it illegal to take these? | ||
| I thought he's for drug legalization. | ||
| Does he want more regulation on pharmaceutical industries? | ||
| I think he wants you to go the exact opposite direction. | ||
| If you're going to get your ADHD meds... | ||
| You should go to the corner like everybody else does with their drugs. | ||
| I think that's what he's trying to say. | ||
| If it's not on the corner, it's not drugs, buddy! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Every other night I go down and I get a fifth of whiskey on the corner. | |
| I know a guy who's got a well-stocked coat. | ||
| Where else do you think I get my Lamictal, Dan? | ||
| I go down the street, guy opens his trench coat. | ||
| Yeah, it's bizarre. | ||
| And again, I think that really illustrates the sort of surface level and cherry-picked way in which Alex describes the similarity between the two. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| And I think I largely agree with Chomsky's analysis that this isn't groundbreaking stuff. | ||
| The idea that people have an alienation from power. | ||
| Sure, sure, absolutely. | ||
| Hey, random person on the street. | ||
| You think it's the government or our corporate overlords? | ||
| And they'll be like, I'm going to go with corporate overlords. | ||
| Not surprising to anyone. | ||
| So there's a shift in propaganda that Alex has been feeling over the last few years. | ||
| And this is weird to hear in 2001 because he says this. | ||
| In much later years, too. | ||
| That there's been a shift recently in the last few years. | ||
| And that has been from keeping things secret about the globalists to throwing it in your face. | ||
| And Chomsky has brought up the idea of hopelessness. | ||
| And that hopelessness is a response that people can have to the idea that the government isn't necessarily serving their interests. | ||
| And that is a larger problem than actually some of the other things that Alex might bring up. | ||
| Helplessness leads to hopelessness. | ||
| Hopelessness. | ||
| Not hard. | ||
| And so Alex is suggesting that this shift in propaganda from hiding the globalists to throwing it in your face is a way of facilitating this hopelessness. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There we go. | |
| And Chomsky does not go in for that. | ||
| I've seen a shift in the propaganda in the last three years from denying all of this to throwing it in our face. | ||
| Could be, but I think... | ||
| My own feeling is the roots go back farther. | ||
| If you go back again to the early part of the 1920s, approximately, that's when this stuff really takes off. | ||
| Madison Avenue? | ||
| Yeah, that's when the public relations industry really exploded. | ||
| And it grew on the basis of the very sensible assumption that was pretty clearly articulated that we have to somehow make sure that the general public does not make use of the... | ||
| Democratic opportunities that are available to them and leaves us to run the place as we've been doing. | ||
| And the way to do it was business leaders are saying, look, we have to induce what's called the philosophy of utility. | ||
| I actually used the phrase. | ||
| We have to kind of direct people to superficial things like fashionable consumption. | ||
| Football. | ||
| Yeah, something. | ||
| Anything that doesn't bother us. | ||
| Bread and circus. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Just anything like that. | ||
| I mean, that's true of leading intellectuals. | ||
| I mean, take, say, Walter Lipton, who is the leading figure in the U.S. elite media in the 20th century, major public intellectual. | ||
| He's the one who invented the phrase manufacture of consent. | ||
| We borrowed it from him. | ||
| And he thought it was necessary. | ||
| It's necessary to manufacture consent in order to make sure that we, what he called the responsible men, Can run the affairs of the world without being bothered. | ||
| And what he didn't say, but what is crucial is your point. | ||
| The people, you become a responsible man if you're serving the interests of concentrated private power. | ||
| Otherwise, you're not. | ||
| So, when Chomsky's talking about a position and an idea, he's able to bring up Yeah. | ||
| Sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There, he's able to engage with this in a much more thorough way, even in a matter of Yeah. | |
| hear somebody talk on this show and then be like, wow, really smart. | ||
| Really smart stuff. | ||
| That's a full thought. | ||
| Good work, man. | ||
| Good work. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Somebody should make you famous. | |
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't even know what to respond with. | ||
| It's just like, there's an interesting conversation that you could have with Chomsky about these issues. | ||
| Yeah, I would like to talk to Noam Chomsky. | ||
| I feel like that's what I'm learning from all of this, is that somehow... | ||
| We'll see if people can harass him on Twitter. | ||
| Alex fucking Jones gets to talk to Noam Chomsky, and he doesn't get to listen to me shit-talk him while he's explaining the world to me. | ||
| Well... | ||
| And that life is unfair sometimes. | ||
| It is unfair. | ||
| It is. | ||
| So, this is one of the things that makes this kind of difficult to really even engage with too deeply as content from my end, is that, yeah, I think I can see what Chomsky's saying. | ||
| He's articulating positions clearly. | ||
| I think rebutting things would, you know, there's some stuff that I maybe don't entirely agree with, but, you know, it would be... | ||
| It would be a matter of teasing out points to really get to the bottom of like, okay, well, yes, there is an interest in media in having people consumed with superficial things. | ||
| Sure, of course. | ||
| how much of that is intentional, strategy-driven by people who want people to be distracted from larger issues, and how much of that is actively, that is what people want. | ||
| And there is a market, for that. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And, you know, people are filling that market. | |
| Sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What is the balance between the two? | |
| Yeah, I mean, it would be hard to argue that the best example of that very thing would be Trump's tweets. | ||
| Like, by constantly covering Trump's tweets... | ||
| They almost ensured he would at least have a shot at becoming president. | ||
| At the same time, if the public weren't so consumed and so interested with... | ||
| With discovering more and more about his dumb fuck tweets, then they wouldn't be covering it, you know? | ||
| And to this question, particularly about what he's bringing up about the media and, you know, what Alex yells bread and circuses with, is... | ||
| There's a supply component and there's a demand component. | ||
| And to ignore either, I think, is not the full picture. | ||
| And I don't think that Chomsky's ignoring the demand picture. | ||
| It's just not part of this conversation. | ||
| And that would be the kind of way I would approach this, and I just... | ||
| He makes points, and here are the points. | ||
| See, now, the problem, Alex, is he had a perfect opportunity to cut into Noam Chomsky and be like, actually, I think it goes further back than that to Rome with bread and circuses, Mr. Chomsky! | ||
| You're not smart enough to figure out the echo on your phone, now are you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Or, hey, Noam, could I tell you about Adam Weishaupt and the Bavarian Illuminati? | |
| I'd like to tell you some fucked up ideas I have about the Illuminati. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Anyway, I think that, you know, Noam Chomsky is able to make points. | ||
| And so it's a foreign concept on Infowars. | ||
| No, it's confusing. | ||
| But he brings up the difference of opinion between the sort of elite corporations and the... | ||
| Normal person who has a job, perhaps, in terms of free trade agreements. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| One of the major issues for the public, look at polls, and it's understandable, are these international economic agreements, the things that are called free trade agreements. | ||
| That's not what they are. | ||
| Those are very big issues for the public. | ||
| People are very much worried about the trade deficit, because they know that's their job. | ||
| We're trying to have a 40% tariff on us. | ||
| We have a 2% on them. | ||
| They call that free trade. | ||
| You're not an isolationist, are you? | ||
| No, I'm not. | ||
| But this is stuff that I do with free trade. | ||
| No, but that's what they say. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, that's what they say. | |
| Right, of course. | ||
| But what I'm trying to make is this. | ||
| These are very big issues for the population. | ||
| They are also big issues for the business world. | ||
| But the population in the business world happens to be on opposite sides. | ||
| Therefore, the issues do not arise in political campaigns. | ||
| So like, for example, the free trade area of the Americas, which is an enormous agreement with a lot of consequences, that has yet to be discussed in the media. | ||
| It's been negotiated for three years. | ||
| It finally broke through at the summit of the Americas meeting in Quebec. | ||
| There was such a furor over it. | ||
| It had to be mentioned. | ||
| But it's been under negotiation for a couple of years by corporate managers, by trade ministers of governments who are basically corporate representatives. | ||
| The media know all about it, but they don't want the public to know. | ||
| It did not come up in the political campaign. | ||
| The nature of these arrangements has yet to be made public. | ||
| I mean, you can sort of figure it out if you do a research project. | ||
| But these things are not made available to the public, and it's for a very clear reason. | ||
| Our final segment with the professor with solutions coming up. | ||
| So things still seem to be going fairly well between them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This is stuff that Alex can get on board with. | ||
| Now, maybe Alex would view this as the consequence of an elaborate shady conspiracy to put this trade deal in in order to enslave white men. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure. | ||
| Whereas Chomsky would look at it more as the result of business interests. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, those filters that are brought up in the propaganda model. | ||
| Things like ownership of conglomerates, the sources of news, the advertising revenues. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Things like that create a market environment. | |
| Right. | ||
| If it's something that could... | ||
| Be something that would be very unpopular with the normal voting public. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| One thing I am absolutely seeing that is mitigating what I would think is so much disagreement is that Chomsky is elucidating the conspiracies that are real that we all know about. | ||
| We all know that billionaires and the government work together to fuck us over. | ||
| That's a normal conspiracy. | ||
| That's what they do. | ||
| And it's not even like... | ||
| It's not even like their fault. | ||
| They're just creations of the system that is propping them up and then they continue to, you know, they do that whole thing. | ||
| But since he's framing it in that conspiratorial, like... | ||
| These business interests and the government are all working together to fuck us over. | ||
| That can be viewed by Alex in the same way that the metaphor could be viewed by Noam Chomsky. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| It's like, oh, you're absolutely right. | ||
| There is a conspiracy of the Rothschilds and the government to fuck us over with NAFTA. | ||
| Yeah, there's enough leeway to this that Alex can still find it useful. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Still read into it what they want to read into it. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| That fits the sort of Infowars narrative structure. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Whereas it does not necessarily, and it's a lot more boring than the way that Alex would put it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, but man, you can absolutely see it. | |
| Like, in 2001, that level of, like... | ||
| Because the government is so fucking corrupt, and because Alex isn't outright saying he's fighting the devil, you can go on an Infowars show and say the government's fucking corrupt, and Alex would be like, yeah, the government's fucking corrupt, and everybody goes, yeah, the government's fucking corrupt, and then 20 years later, you're like, let's overthrow the government, and it's like, oh no! | ||
| Wrong! | ||
| Because they're working for the devil. | ||
| Exactly! | ||
| Don't move! | ||
| You messed up, guys! | ||
| Yeah, and I think that this is in that real sweet spot of pre-9-11 but post-2000 election where there is so much chaos and alienation in people. | ||
| The result of the 2000 election was such an awful... | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, it was literally stolen. | |
| It was a moment where scales fell from people's eyes in a lot of ways. | ||
| Across the aisle, perhaps, even. | ||
| This is the way that our process is going through. | ||
| This doesn't feel right. | ||
| Are you telling me that our process... | ||
| Has been derailed by Republican aides fake dressing up as business people? | ||
| Wait, are you talking about Roger Stone? | ||
| What are we doing? | ||
| Is this our government? | ||
| Is this how it works? | ||
| Yeah, and you had that period before 9-11 where people were all over the map in terms of their beliefs about... | ||
| The administration. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And I think that people galvanized a lot after 9-11 due to coming together after a national tragedy. | ||
| And they started a forever war. | ||
| This exists in that space before that where there's a lot of fertile ground for Alex to take advantage of in political disillusionment. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And so I think that Noam... | ||
| You know, unfortunately, but I don't know. | ||
| I don't think he knows too much about Alex and just thinks that he is kind of like an alternative news guy. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| And he says things like, you know, outlets like yours are important. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But I think that that is a perception that even, you know, I certainly had more of a feeling of four years ago. | ||
| Sure, totally. | ||
| Because, you know, there is... | ||
| There's a reality that people who are outside of the structures of advertising, those voices are important, and sometimes there is value in somebody who's, you know, maybe wrong sometimes, but willing to take a chance. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| I think those voices are valuable in the broad spectrum of media. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| I mean, to Chomsky's earlier point... | ||
| Like, if you recall the media immediately following that stolen election, like, they quickly were like, hey, you know what? | ||
| We need to unite around our president and we need the country to come together. | ||
| At no point in time were they like, hey, we can't have a stolen election. | ||
| Like, that just can't be a thing. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| And I guess that opens up another conversation of, like, what would it have looked like if the media had called out the election? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| But leaving that aside. | ||
| I think that Chomsky has a similar tack to what I had perhaps before I knew as much about Alex as I do. | ||
| And I think a lot of people, if they don't know all that much about him, which is just like, you're a guy who's on the outside. | ||
| You're a fringe guy. | ||
| Sure, you broke into Bohemian Grove or whatever. | ||
| Maybe I don't agree with you, but there's value in you existing in the media landscape. | ||
| And I don't agree with that now. | ||
| Disagree. | ||
| But you can kind of see that in the way that he's engaging with them. | ||
| Radio can be a very important, I mean, it's an extremely important instrument. | ||
| There can be real involvement at interchange, and that can be a highly important educational instrument, and there are others. | ||
| So it's not just soundbites. | ||
| People have to actually spouse ideas. | ||
| You know, these are not trivial issues. | ||
| You have to really think them through. | ||
| Well, these are unelected, unaccountable international boards controlled by the top 20 corporations and banks telling us they're going to run our lives. | ||
| I mean, that's a horrible idea, but most Americans don't know that. | ||
| That's essentially Alex responding to Noam Chomsky saying you can't use soundbites and catchphrases. | ||
| With a soundbite. | ||
| More or less. | ||
| And a catchphrase. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Ah, man. | ||
| So you're telling me that Noam Chomsky told Alex Jones that he's important and Noam Chomsky won't even talk to me. | ||
| That's just bullshit. | ||
| It's just bullshit. | ||
| It's unfair. | ||
| Noam Chomsky, I'm calling you out! | ||
| But again, again... | ||
| If you don't know that much about Alex, you don't actually listen to his show, and like I said, I don't know too much about exactly what he was like in 2001, but you see this in other eras of his career, too. | ||
| If you don't know all that much about him, you could get the sense that, like, yeah, you're not just doing soundbites. | ||
| You are getting into the issues, and that is a value of radio. | ||
| I do agree with Chomsky on that. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| But not Alex so much. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Absolutely not. | ||
| The two of them get along pretty well. | ||
| They both seem to hate consumerism. | ||
| Well, that's like these $150 Nike tennis shoes that are so ugly I wouldn't touch them if they were free. | ||
| But the young people are just begging and have to have them or they're not human. | ||
| Yeah, and if you watch, I mean, I sometimes watch this television with my grandchildren. | ||
| What they are subjected to is criminal. | ||
| I mean, they're barraged by propaganda. | ||
| Teaching them from infancy that the only thing in life is getting those tennis shoes or those Pokemon cards or whatever it may be. | ||
| And that is really a way to control people in a very ugly fashion. | ||
| People have to learn how to escape from that. | ||
| It's a hard struggle. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah! | ||
| Consumerism is a toxic influence. | ||
| And I don't know. | ||
| What's the answer to it? | ||
| It's an individual process. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Right? | ||
| I mean, it... | ||
| It can't be, like, outlawing advertising. | ||
| No, that probably won't work. | ||
| I would say one solution would obviously be to scorch the skies and have an AI keep us inside of egg sacs. | ||
| That would be one solution. | ||
| Certainly. | ||
| Although, even then, the AI has propaganda inside of its... | ||
| Man, you're never gonna escape! | ||
| No. | ||
| The only way that this is productive as a conversation is addressing it as an individualistic pursuit of recognizing when those kind of advertising tricks are being used. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I don't actually want that as much as they are saying I want it. | ||
| Sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Or maybe I do. | |
| Sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know, like advertising, I think that sometimes is dumb, but I actually do want what's being sold. | |
| I don't like Taco Bell commercials, but I do want Taco Bell. | ||
| All I want is, like, I'm so stoked when I find out something exists that I didn't know exists. | ||
| Like, if all commercials were just like, hey! | ||
| You need to wash your clothes? | ||
| Tide. | ||
| I'd be like, holy shit, I didn't know Tide was out there! | ||
| Yes, you did. | ||
| That's not the point. | ||
| That's not the point. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I mean, that experience was exactly what I had at the beginning of April when I saw the commercial for Mortal Kombat. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| It's like, okay, then we'll watch Mortal Kombat. | ||
| I don't give a shit about your commercial. | ||
| The commercial is not going to convince me one way or another. | ||
| You are informing me this exists. | ||
| Tell me. | ||
| Yeah, that's all I needed to know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I think that people can do that. | ||
| They're very capable of doing that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, of course. | |
| And I think that that is what the message that Chomsky's bringing in many ways is. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Is thinking, is recognizing and being able to work around these things. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Because you can't really stop them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And the fact that you can't stop them is what feeds into helplessness. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You can't get rid of advertising. | ||
| You're not going to get rid of public relations firms. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| That isn't going to happen. | ||
| Because, I mean, even think about it just from a structural, actual perspective. | ||
| How would that happen? | ||
| How could you do that? | ||
| You couldn't legislate away those kinds of... | ||
| I just don't know. | ||
| It would be impossible. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, ooh. | |
| Turn all the electricity off. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Then people would just make pamphlets again. | ||
| Ah, they couldn't do it without electricity to run their printers. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, they'd just go back to the old ch-chunk. | |
| Get rid of presses. | ||
| Get rid of ink. | ||
| Wow, you're good. | ||
| So, I think that the path away from helplessness that I'm hearing is... | ||
| Self-motivated, self-driven, and the ways that intellectuals and public speakers can be of help is helping people recognize that it is a path out of this conundrum, as opposed to... | ||
| And sure, there's institutional things you can do, like perhaps break up large media entities. | ||
| Certainly, there's organization and things you can do on that front, but... | ||
| The idea of getting rid of the influence that is this negative consumerism is not likely. | ||
| No, that is... | ||
| Yeah, it's not going back in the box, Pandora. | ||
| No. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, this next clip was really weird. | ||
| I don't understand exactly what Alex is saying, but I have some thoughts on it. | ||
| Take, say, these trade agreements that are coming along. | ||
| One crucial part of them is to take what are called services and hand them over to private power. | ||
| Well, services are just about anything that people would care about. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Health, education, water. | |
| Excuse me, I don't like any of those. | ||
| Anything that would be in the public arena where people would want to make decisions. | ||
| That has to be taken out of the public arena, put into private hands, unaccountable private hands, and then what's left for the public is which kind of shoes I buy. | ||
| But these private corporations are taking on governmental power. | ||
| And take the Lower Colorado River Authority here in Texas. | ||
| They're private, but they have SWAT teams and will arrest you. | ||
| And it's the ultimate tyranny. | ||
| And then they say, hey, we're a corporation. | ||
| You can't see our records. | ||
| You can't ask questions. | ||
| I think that what Alex is talking about is the lower Colorado River Authority is like dams and electric power plants. | ||
| I think he's talking about guards around the area. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| I'm not entirely sure. | ||
| Because they have private security. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| What Chomsky's bringing up is privatization, essentially. | ||
| Yeah, Chomsky is... | ||
| And Alex is opposed to that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But he also hates big government. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Whereas Chomsky's answer to this is public ownership. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And Alex would be staunchly opposed to that. | ||
| He'd rather die than publicly own a business. | ||
| He doesn't have a coherent answer to this. | ||
| Because on the one hand, you have public businesses or private businesses. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Should you allow private... | ||
| For necessities? | ||
| Should you allow air to be privatized? | ||
| Should you allow water to be privatized? | ||
| Alex should be a... | ||
| Opposed to that, but also opposed to the alternative? | ||
| It doesn't seem like Alex has a clear way out of his bullshit whenever cornered by Noam Chomsky. | ||
| Someone who does have a position. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| So what you do is you wiggle. | ||
| And Alex tries to bring up the difference between a democracy and a republic. | ||
| This is a classic right-wing fun time. | ||
| So Alex is bringing up the difference between a democracy and a republic to Noam... | ||
| Can I read that? | ||
| What's the name again? | ||
| Chamsky. | ||
| Noam Chamsky? | ||
| Oh, that's who I would do it. | ||
| I wouldn't do it against that other guy. | ||
| It doesn't go well. | ||
| Uh-uh, that's not surprising. | ||
| And I would say that this is the turning point of the interview. | ||
| This is where things go like, uh-oh, we're on thin ice. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I hear Republicans, Democrats saying democracy. | ||
| That's a semantical deception. | ||
| The Founding Fathers said a democracy is horrible. | ||
| It's two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. | ||
| A republic has a rule of law, separation of powers, a bill of rights that you can't violate. | ||
| And a democracy, 50% say, 51% say all the black people are killed or all the white people are killed. | ||
| It's done. | ||
| Or take that farm. | ||
| It's done. | ||
| Right there, I mean, we hear this word democracy all the time. | ||
| Well, we're a republic and there's a big difference. | ||
| Actually, I think the real issues are elsewhere. | ||
| I mean, the distinction between Republican democracy that you're describing was not really what concerned the founding fathers. | ||
| What they were concerned about, you read, say, James Madison, the main framer, what he was concerned about, but he wanted to have a system in which power would lie in the hands of what he called the wealth of the nation, the more capable class of men. | ||
| And the reason was because the goal of government, this phrase, is to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. | ||
| So the system was designed to try to ensure that the wealth of the nation would essentially be in control and that the general public would be fragmented and marginalized and so on. | ||
| Now, look over the course of time. | ||
| A middle class flourish here, though, Professor. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Pardon? | |
| A middle class flourish here. | ||
| Why? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Four percent of the population would have to well die. | |
| Why did the middle class flourish? | ||
| No, that's not the middle. | ||
| Four percent of the population is in the middle class. | ||
| The middle class is middle. | ||
| But I think, look... | ||
| So Alex is having trouble now because Noam has pointed a finger at the founders in a way that Alex cannot handle. | ||
| Yeah, so Alex rebuts that a middle class flourished here. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because of right-wing policies, Dan. | ||
| And his evidence of it is that 4% of the population of the world, and we had half of the wealth. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And I think Chomsky doesn't understand what he said, because he said 4% isn't the middle class. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| And if he heard Alex saying 4% of our population had half of the wealth... | ||
| Then that would be the response that would be given. | ||
| But I still think, even if he had accurately heard what Alex said, I still think that what he's saying is accurate. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The 4% that had all the wealth wasn't necessarily the middle class. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They were very much not the middle class on account of there were only 4% of them. | ||
| No, no. | ||
| The 4% is 4% of the world's population. | ||
| Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| That's the way that Alex is meaning that. | ||
| Gotcha, gotcha. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So you leave the 4% aside. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| But even if we did have half the wealth, it wasn't, like, evenly distributed among the population. | ||
| There may have been a fairly comfortable middle class. | ||
| Yeah, I would argue the slave population probably wasn't taken care of as well. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| At that point? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, this... | ||
| This issue with the Founding Fathers is the beginning of what is going to become a tear in the fabric of friendship. | ||
| We have this conversation that ends up going to guns, because of course it does. | ||
| Oh no, it's not going to go to guns. | ||
| Almost immediately. | ||
| Of course it does. | ||
| I think, look, over the centuries, there have been a lot of struggles against this elitist concept, and the options for public participation did increase. | ||
| Substantially. | ||
| But was it legal for them to say that we would all be armed and have the right to keep and bear arms? | ||
| Well, you know, that's not what they meant back at that time. | ||
| What they meant is, you read the Second Amendment, they said... | ||
| Never! | ||
| In the context of raising militias, people should have the right to bear arms. | ||
| We're living in a different world. | ||
| You know, we're not raising militias. | ||
| The question whether people should have arms is a separate issue. | ||
| I mean, in fact, here the United States is off-spectrum of... | ||
| International Society. | ||
| Uh-oh. | ||
| Gnome. | ||
| Gnome. | ||
| Did you just say... | ||
| International society! | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no. | |
| Gnome, you have... | ||
| Gnome! | ||
| Neighbors. | ||
| Gnome, you have hit a very dangerous button. | ||
| And you can't undo this now. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| You have just told Alex that his interpretation of the Second Amendment is wrong. | ||
| New world order. | ||
| New world order. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| Turns out... | ||
| Noam Chomsky's a shill. | ||
| The United States is off the spectrum of international society. | ||
| Do you think people are hopeful? | ||
| I mean, are you hopeful that folks are going to wake up to this system? | ||
| I think people, again, like I said, maybe I'm naive, but I think that people more or less understand it. | ||
| And what they feel is helpless. | ||
| And they have to be able to overcome that feeling of helplessness. | ||
| And there are ways of doing it. | ||
| You know, in the past, people have organized. | ||
| They have struggled. | ||
| They've achieved rights. | ||
| We have all kinds of rights and freedoms that didn't exist not long ago. | ||
| And that's because people were not willing to just sit back and take it, but to organize, learn, act, educate, do things to change the world so that it's their concerns and needs. | ||
| We have the opportunity to do that. | ||
| And we're very privileged. | ||
| We live in a society where people are not controlled by force. | ||
| That's an extremely important privilege. | ||
| Well, Mr. Chomsky, I have to be honest with you, and I really appreciate you coming on. | ||
| I want to tell folks about some of your publications and let you get back to work. | ||
| But right there, it seemed like a groupthink herding mechanism when you talked about the guns, and you said, well, I think America, the U.S. is off from the main line of the rest of the world as if, oh, we're a little backwards that we still have guns. | ||
| I mean, that's that whole groupthink right there. | ||
| So, Alex is trying to express this notion that, you know, you're trying to shame America about guns based on the notion that the rest of the world is more civilized because they don't have guns. | ||
| And this is just anathema to Alex. | ||
| He has decided that if you present that kind of a position on his show, you're a fucking chill. | ||
| Yeah! | ||
| And Alex throws out, literally, A great degree of agreement. | ||
| Oh, yeah, no, it's all gone. | ||
| What could have led to a second interview probably could have led to a decent... | ||
| I mean, eventually it would fall apart. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But there wasn't hostility here. | ||
| There was someone who has a different perspective on some of the similar themes that Alex talks about. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No, I mean, the moment... | ||
| Noam said, we live in a country where you can't control people by force. | ||
| All I saw in my head was Alex pulling a gun and saying, you take that back. | ||
| And it's like, well... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Look, guns are not about force. | |
| They're about politeness. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly. | |
| So even that, when Alex is saying that, you know, like, hey, you're trying to pull out some groupthink. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Even that, like, Chomsky is pretty generous and measured with his response. | ||
| As if, oh, we're a little backwards that we still have guns. | ||
| I mean, that's that whole group thing right there. | ||
| It could be. | ||
| I mean, again, I don't think it's an obvious question, and I think we'd really have to talk about it and think it through. | ||
| But if you want my opinion, I think guns are much too easy to get in the United States. | ||
| But England's crime rate just doubled three years after they took all the guns. | ||
| Well, see, the United States does not have a particularly high crime rate. | ||
| It's been sort of toward the high end of the spectrum of industrial societies, but not... | ||
| The one real difference between the United States and other countries is killings with guns. | ||
| So, it seems like Chomsky is just ignoring Alex's obviously misrepresented stats. | ||
| Yeah, he's not taking the bait. | ||
| No, and he's framing the conversation where he believes it's more important, which is deaths, gun deaths. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Which is out of pace with other industrialized countries. | ||
| Yeah, Alex isn't the first person to come at him with that bullshit. | ||
| Doesn't seem like it. | ||
| No. | ||
| Alex might be the first person who comes with this, though. | ||
| The one real difference between the United States and other countries is killings with guns. | ||
| Not anymore. | ||
| Yeah, it's very high here compared to other countries. | ||
| Look at the economists no longer. | ||
| We're number 12. England and Australia are number 1 and 2 now. | ||
| In deaths by guns? | ||
| Yes, now they are. | ||
| London is now more dangerous. | ||
| Only in the last three years. | ||
| It wasn't three years ago. | ||
| You're right, three years ago. | ||
| It's now worse than Washington, D.C., sir. | ||
| In deaths by guns? | ||
| Yeah, I have about four different universities, three different governments, Australian Bureau of Statistical Data. | ||
| It's all on Infowars.com right now, Professor. | ||
| Okay, I'd take a look. | ||
| But if that's the case, I'd look at the reasons, and I would suspect that the reason is that there has been an increased availability of guns. | ||
| If there's going to be an increase in availability, then there are going to be crimes using guns. | ||
| You're right, sir. | ||
| They outlawed the guns, and so now the criminals... | ||
| They've always had guns outlawed. | ||
| So now the criminals have a reason to bring them in because the black markets made it very lucrative. | ||
| Guns were always outlawed. | ||
| I mean, even the police didn't have guns in England until very recently. | ||
| Oh, people had guns over there? | ||
| Look, in England, even the police were not armed with guns until fairly recently. | ||
| Professor Chomsky, the police didn't have guns. | ||
| The people had handguns and rifles. | ||
| They just confiscated them three years ago. | ||
| No, that happened. | ||
| There was an effort to do that in Canada. | ||
| That's a different story. | ||
| I mean, look, this is a big issue, and we'd have to look into the details of the facts, but I really don't agree with you about the facts. | ||
| But, you know, these are factual questions. | ||
| We could settle it. | ||
| I have the facts. | ||
| Well, I'd love to debate you on it. | ||
| Real quick, tell folks about some of your books and publications. | ||
| That is a we're done here. | ||
| Tell me about your publications. | ||
| If there's more availability of guns, there's more gun deaths. | ||
| No! | ||
| I see. | ||
| I think that there's a really, not bizarre at all, very... | ||
| Foreign to Infowars situation going on where he's talking to a person who is staying on the one thing that they were talking about, which is deaths by guns. | ||
| Alex is fudging statistics, making stuff up. | ||
| Yeah, you brought up a different issue. | ||
| Hey, tell people about your books! | ||
| I'm gonna have to let you go. | ||
| Bye! | ||
| What Chomsky is doing is being overly charitable. | ||
| He's not saying, Alex, you're a fucking liar. | ||
| You're making stuff up. | ||
| He's saying, I would need to take a look at that. | ||
| And if that is the case, here is a potential explanation for why that could be the case. | ||
| And then Alex has taken that potential explanation that Chomsky has for his fictitious stats. | ||
| As explanation for his fictitious stats. | ||
| Yeah, I think I would have said something along the lines of, if England and Australia are one and two in gun deaths, I will eat a bowl of my own shit, you idiot. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I bet you a million dollars. | |
| I will take that bet. | ||
| So Alex, what he's doing is he's talking about the Firearms Amendment Acts of 1997 in England, which were passed in response to the Dunblane Massacre, where a man in his 40s carried out a mass shooting at a primary school. | ||
| The strategy that they employed was not to confiscate guns, but to ban future ownership of most guns, and let the valid licenses that were active lapse and not be renewed. | ||
| In response, a ton of people voluntarily turned in their guns, and Alex is pretending that's a confiscation. | ||
| And it did make more guns illegal to own, but there's been some pretty strict rules about guns in England predating this. | ||
| Noam Chomsky's not far off. | ||
| No. | ||
| Alex could get him on a technicality if he was saying that all guns have always been illegal or whatever, but spiritually, he's not off. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No. | ||
| Cops shouldn't be armed. | ||
| Now, that having happened, Alex decides, I think I'm going to hang up on this dick. | ||
| Really do appreciate you joining us. | ||
| I would just say this. | ||
| One big part of controlling the thought process and the debate where the rat thinks it has a choice, you can go forward, left, right, or back, but it's still in their system, is having people out there... | ||
| Talking about this propaganda state in Madison Avenue and only pointing out certain parts of it and misdirecting people back into the big government paradigm. | ||
| And frankly, sir, you need to get the information on the guns, on the land grabbing, on all of it, because I have it right here. | ||
| And I respect your work, but at the same time, just here talking to you, I think some of it isn't as honest as it could be. | ||
| Well, you know, that's for people, others, to decide when they look at it. | ||
| It certainly is. | ||
| My audience is pretty well educated. | ||
| Thanks for joining us. | ||
| Say hi to David Rockefeller for me. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| What a dick. | ||
| What a complete dick. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Now. | ||
| What a bizarre end to this interview. | ||
| Excuse me, sir. | ||
| I'm going to agree with you for about an hour, but it turns out that you disagree with me on guns, so you work for David Rockefeller, you lying piece of shit. | ||
| I hope you die. | ||
| I hope you die. | ||
| Click. | ||
| And something that I think is really admirable is the way that Chomsky responds to that. | ||
| Like, Alex is basically calling him a liar. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| And he's like, well, I guess people will just figure that out. | ||
| I'm not going to engage with your attempt to get me to fight with you or whatever. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| I like that. | ||
| Excuse me, Alex. | ||
| You realize I'm Noam Chomsky? | ||
| I'm not. | ||
| His pulse didn't even go up at all. | ||
| No, nope, nope. | ||
| Alex is like, I think you're controlled opposition and a real dick. | ||
| Liar. | ||
| Well, I understand your point of view. | ||
| I think people will be smart enough to look into it and see the difference here. | ||
| And Noam Chomsky, you're wrong, buddy! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Say hi to David Rockefeller. | |
| You busted. | ||
| So now that he's gone... | ||
| Now we get to talk shit. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| There goes Noam Chomsky, ladies and gentlemen. | ||
| And I've read his books, and now I'm more sure than ever. | ||
| He's a New World Order shill up one side and down the other. | ||
| Oh, I never had guns in England. | ||
| Oh, no, I never had guns in England. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They most certainly did. | |
| Certainly, gun ownership wasn't as prolific. | ||
| I mean, how many... | ||
| I mean, you've seen the video that's been on Nationwide of them cutting the guns in half over there, confiscating the handguns, the rifles. | ||
| Three years ago, we've read the reports, The Economist, WorldNet, Daily. | ||
| Yeah, so I mean, just speak freely once he's gone. | ||
| I've read his books, now I know for sure. | ||
| So wait, was the idea to get him in there... | ||
| And then find something to disagree with and then declare him a shill? | ||
| I think it has to have been. | ||
| Because he has to have, like, if what Alex is saying is true and he's read Chomsky's books and suspected that he was an NWO shill, then it would have to be like, I'm just looking for a point of disagreement in order to make you an enemy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's not cool. | ||
| I would have suggested that when he was talking about one of the books that you supposedly read, Would be the time to say that, hey, I think after having read your book, you're a shill. | ||
| Yeah, I don't like your position on anti-communist. | ||
| Exactly, yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It'd be very simple. | |
| All of my favorite people are anti-communist as hell. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, so I thought that this was really strange. | ||
| Alex... | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know what he was doing. | |
| I'm completely perplexed. | ||
| There's so much agreement. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Now, Alex would have to give up a lot of the sort of more fun elements of his conspiratorial nonsense if he were to continue engaging with Chomsky. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Because that stuff would fall apart. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| A lot of it would. | ||
| And some of the more real sort of dynamics that Chomsky could bring to the table are not necessarily as Exciting or lucrative. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| And maybe there isn't value in it for Alex to be an ally of Chomsky. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| But it's hard for me to imagine that he did this interview as a trap in order to create this moment at the end. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because it just doesn't make sense. | ||
| No, it really doesn't. | ||
| It also doesn't feel angry enough for it to be like a visceral response on Alex's part where he's just like... | ||
| Fuck it. | ||
| I'm just mad at this guy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I mean, it kind of feels like if I were running it, here would be my kind of game plan there, which is if you and Noam Chomsky have an awesome interview, then you get to say Noam Chomsky is a fan of yours. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And that legitimizes you to a lot of people. | ||
| It would help Alex's arguments of being above the left-right paradigm. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| If you get into a fight with Noam Chomsky, you got into a fight with Noam fucking Chomsky! | ||
| A one-sided fight. | ||
| And a lot of people will be like, hell yeah, man. | ||
| So Alex really can't lose in this scenario. | ||
| I do think that the extreme right elements of Alex's audience, which is certainly more of the keystone of it than anything. | ||
| Would not like the idea of being friends with Nobjohnski. | ||
| Totally, totally. | ||
| Honestly, I've listened to this interview a couple times, and I don't really know exactly what happened. | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| It makes no sense to me. | ||
| And maybe there's a decent chance that what we saw there with him being like, Sir, I believe that this is groupthink, and I think that you're not being as honest as... | ||
| Maybe that's 2001 Angry Alex. | ||
| Could be. | ||
| Maybe we're just judging it based on the bombastic performances of the present. | ||
| Maybe that's how he was an angry dick back then. | ||
| How many years had he been doing this? | ||
| Not long. | ||
| He's inexperienced. | ||
| I mean, I didn't get mediocre at comedy for seven years. | ||
| So you can't imagine him being, you know, right out the gate, the bombastic... | ||
| Sure. | ||
| A disgusting human being that we expect today. | ||
| Yeah, and the years of substance abuse. | ||
| That'll help. | ||
| And globalists and hot tubs have certainly created the character that he is. | ||
| Yeah, I don't know. | ||
| Anyway, here's the last clip. | ||
| Yeah, I had the spanking there at the end, and I certainly enjoyed it. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Chomsky? | ||
| Really? | ||
| You're a New World Order shell, and I've got twice the brain you've got with both arms tied behind my back. | ||
| Makes sense. | ||
| That might not have been the right thing for him to mock. | ||
| Yeah, they owned humans. | ||
| So they definitely wanted to protect owning humans. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think that if you take anything away from this, it's Alex's contention that he has more brains with both hands tied behind his back. | ||
| Man! | ||
| A completely meaningless brag. | ||
| It really couldn't get more obviously incongruous for someone to say, look how smart I am. | ||
| I'm going to use a cliche that could not less apply to the very thing that I'm saying I'm smart about. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think that really kind of sums it up. | ||
| And honestly, strategically, it even sums up what I look at. | ||
| There are very few times that I take a look at something that happened in Alex's past, and I'm just completely flummoxed. | ||
| And I really don't know why this happened the way it did. | ||
| It's confusing. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| And I don't think I have any answers. | ||
| I would like to know how the booker got Noam Chomsky. | ||
| I think a lot of people are more gettable than we think. | ||
| That's probably true. | ||
| I think that a lot of folks that you might want to talk to, it would just be a matter of a couple emails. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, considering how much free time I could make. | ||
| At the drop of a hat. | ||
| I imagine public intellectuals are in a very similar spot. | ||
| Maybe a little bit less free time than you. | ||
| Maybe a little bit less free time than me, specifically. | ||
| The paragon of free time, Jordan. | ||
| Yeah, I think about how differently history could have gone if Alex and Noam became buddies. | ||
| If instead of Steve Pachanek, he had Hope Chomsky. | ||
| You're not going to get as many big swings from Noam Chomsky. | ||
| I believe Steve came into the fold in 2002. | ||
| This is 2001. | ||
| So this is pre-Steve Pachetik. | ||
| Hey, we got to get a new Noam Chomsky. | ||
| Get Steve Pachetik in here. | ||
| Dude, if the infinite universes is real, there is a universe. | ||
| The multiverse theory. | ||
| Where Steve Pachetik is played by Noam Chomsky on the Alex Jones show. | ||
| How does that go? | ||
| Do you think Noam Chomsky gets crazier or Alex gets less crazy? | ||
| I mean, if you go solely based on this interview. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| I think Alex gets less crazy. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Because, to me, Chomsky seems immovable. | ||
| No, he's got a heart rate 120 over 80 all day, baby. | ||
| He does not seem to care too much and is willing to elucidate positions and clarify things while discussing things with Alex. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I think... | ||
| I think that that would not... | ||
| He would disappear before he got crazy or because of Alex, I think. | ||
| I think Alex believes that he is the waves that could wear away the rock, but instead it is Noam Chomsky. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And to be honest, I think Steve was crazy when he showed up. | ||
| Oh no, of course. | ||
| I think Steve was crazy when he was working for the State Department. | ||
| Probably. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When he killed Aldo Morrow. | ||
| They were all probably like, this guy thinks he killed Aldo Morrow. | ||
| He did kill Aldo Morrow. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| So, anyway, Jordan, we will be back. | ||
| This has been a long overdue checking this box off. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| And I wish I had more to bring to it, but I honestly don't. | ||
| I think it's just an interesting glimpse of public intellectual... | ||
| It really is. | ||
| ...having a conversation with Alex that... | ||
| That it steps on a number of commonalities between where sort of critical historical study overlaps with, you know, pseudo-conspiracy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And where there is distinction, where there's departure. | ||
| And I think you also get a really solid glimpse of, even in 2001, Alex is so sensitive about guns. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And it may be one of the only things that really means anything to him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, what is... | ||
| But to a certain extent, you know, so many men treat guns as an extension of toxic masculinity, so maybe that's even more, like, at the deepest level. | ||
| It's just toxic masculinity. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Or property rights. | ||
|
unidentified
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Sure. | |
| It could be a symbol of the idea of personal private property. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
|
unidentified
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I don't know. | |
| Totally true. | ||
| But it's strange. | ||
| It's strange that he had to make a fight out of, essentially, A decent point. | ||
| The chops came in. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yep. | |
| Yep. | ||
| Anyway, we'll be back, Jordan. | ||
| But until then, we have a website. | ||
| We do have a website. | ||
| It's knowledgefight.com. | ||
| We are also on Twitter. | ||
| We are on Twitter. | ||
| It's at knowledgefight.com. | ||
| Go to bed. | ||
| We're also on Facebook. | ||
| We are on Facebook. | ||
| If you'd like to download the show, please go to iTunes and et cetera. | ||
| And if you could, please find a local charity or bail fund in your area to help out people doing God's work. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| We'll be back. | ||
| But until then, I'm Neo. | ||
| I'm Leo. | ||
| I'm DZX Clark. | ||
| I'm Daryl Rundus. | ||
| And now here comes the sex robots. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
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Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your work. |
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