Just when they thought they were moving away from Project Camelot World, Dan and Jordan get sucked back in. Dan needed a break from Alex Jones, so the gents discuss some paranormal weirdos. In this installment, they look into the time Kevin Moore (the guy who is making a takedown documentary about Project Camelot and Mark Richards) interviewed a guy who claims to talk to time travelers, which is as close as this show gets to a Halloween episode.
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
Knowledgefight. | |
| Dan and Jordan, I am sweating. | ||
| Knowledgefight.com. | ||
| It's time to pray. | ||
| I have great respect for Knowledge Fight. | ||
| Knowledge Fight. | ||
| I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Knowledge Fight. | |
| Dan and George. | ||
| Knowledge Fight. | ||
| Need money. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Stop it. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's time to pray. | |
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
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Thanks for holding us. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your room. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Knowledge Fight. | |
| KnowledgeFight.com. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| Hey, everybody. | ||
| Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. | ||
| I'm Dan. | ||
| I'm Jordan. | ||
| We're a couple dudes who like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. | ||
| Indeed we are, Dan. | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| Dan? | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| What was the last Halloween costume you wore unironically? | ||
| What do you mean unironically? | ||
| I mean just like pure joy. | ||
| You know, not like an adult Halloween party where you've got like the note and it's like, I'm just going as the regular guy. | ||
| You know, like that kind of thing. | ||
| I'm talking like... | ||
| You know, I dressed up as a ninja turtle and I fucking loved it. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| That kind of shit. | ||
| I've probably talked about this in the past, but I have a problem with over-committing to things like that. | ||
| Like, Halloween costumes have always been a problem for me because I'll just go too far with it. | ||
| The big time, that was sort of like the breaking point for me. | ||
| Was I went as a monk one year. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And I shaved a circle on the top of my head. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I had my hair around the sides. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| You were a fryer tuck, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, basically. | ||
| And I went around with a jug of Carlo Rossi at parties. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And made people take drinks when they did things that were against the social order. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I blessed people who were behaving well. | ||
| Naturally. | ||
| I really got into the character. | ||
| You went a little too far, yeah. | ||
| I got super drunk. | ||
| I see what you said. | ||
| And the next morning, I woke up with a terrible hangover. | ||
| I walked into the bathroom. | ||
| I'm like, oh my god. | ||
| My head. | ||
| It was a mess. | ||
| I had to walk to the store to get Gatorade. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And that next morning with nothing. | |
| Just him walking in and being like, Happy Halloween. | ||
| You know what's up. | ||
| You know what happened. | ||
| This is the Halloween walk of shame. | ||
| Yeah, but that was when I was probably, I don't know, like early 20s. | ||
| I don't really get into that too much. | ||
| I don't really care for the Halloween. | ||
| Not really a Halloween guy? | ||
| Not really. | ||
| Any good ones when you were a kid? | ||
| You trick-or-treated, right? | ||
| We were super poor. | ||
| Growing up, my parents insisted we had to make our own costumes, and we weren't very crafty. | ||
| Us too! | ||
| No, there was nothing good. | ||
| That was the only time I got to eat candy in my entire childhood. | ||
| Oh yeah, that's good. | ||
| Whenever we wandered around Halloween and trick-or-treated. | ||
| The candy's good, but it's just a sheet that you're wearing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| It's all slight variations on what can you do with cardboard. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Couldn't do that much. | ||
| The memories aren't good, except the candy. | ||
| Candy was good. | ||
| The candy's the good stuff. | ||
| Except those taffies that just come in brown and orange. | ||
| Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Those ones, those mysterious unlabeled. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| They're like Tootsie Rolls, but you know they're not. | ||
| Piles of garbage. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And candy corn sucks. | ||
| I don't know why there's this new... | ||
| Effort to rehab the image of candy corn going on. | ||
| People are rehabbing candy corn? | ||
| I feel like this year... | ||
| Louis Black is rolling over in his grave right now, Dan! | ||
| Is he dead? | ||
| No, he's not dead. | ||
| I feel like there's an effort that I'm seeing online this year more than past years to be like... | ||
| Fuck you, I like candy corn. | ||
| Really? | ||
| I like candy corn. | ||
| Stop making me feel bad for it. | ||
| Man, this era of polarization has gone too far. | ||
| I don't like the idea of like, hey, if you like candy corn, God bless you, but I don't feel like we need to feel bad for not liking it and declaring the objective fact that it stinks. | ||
| It's awful. | ||
| That's my position. | ||
| I thought that was one thing. | ||
| That was the last thing the American people could really all agree on. | ||
| Guess not. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| There's two Americas. | ||
| Candy corn and non-candy corn. | ||
| Candy Corn to own the libs these days. | ||
| I do appreciate, though, that it hasn't yet extended to attempting to mainstream the pumpkin. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Candy Corn Pumpkin. | ||
| Yeah, no, that's never happening. | ||
| It's too thick. | ||
| No. | ||
| No, that's not going to happen. | ||
| You can accept Candy Corn in a tiny little thing, but not that big. | ||
| Bulbous pumpkin. | ||
| Anyway, I don't know too much about dressing up for Halloween anymore, but I do know a lot about Alex Jones. | ||
| And I don't know anything about either, Dan. | ||
| That is correct. | ||
| And today is actually a spooky Halloween episode. | ||
| That's not a fair way to... | ||
| I think all of our episodes are spooky, Dan. | ||
| I encountered a thing earlier this week where I just felt like I was kind of not interested in... | ||
| I needed to take a break from Alex Jones. | ||
| And so I was thinking about, like, well, we just embarked on this Coast to Coast AM thing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, they do a lot of shit about wacky, crazy, paranormal topics. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| But then I was like, okay, for every year around Halloween, they do Ghost to Ghost. | ||
| Well, okay. | ||
| Coast to Coast, Ghost to Ghost. | ||
| It's right there. | ||
| I don't blame them for that. | ||
| It's too close. | ||
| Right, but a lot of that is just taking calls from people who have ghosts in their homes and stuff. | ||
| Who have ghost stories, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| And I don't really want to make fun of that, because as much as we... | ||
| We can focus on George Nori and some of this toxic platforming that he does. | ||
| I don't want to spend a ton of time just being like, look at these dumb callers. | ||
| That seems cruel. | ||
| There is a line of what I think is probably acceptable for us. | ||
| And that would feel gross. | ||
| If we were doing Loveline and just talking shit about the callers over the other guys talking, then yeah, we're kind of the assholes. | ||
| Critiquing Adam Carolla's politics and some of the stuff he stands for, possible... | ||
| Maybe not something I'm going to do, but possible. | ||
| Look at this dumbass caller! | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| What an asshole! | ||
| You're the asshole there. | ||
| You didn't have to search out a caller. | ||
| Yeah, so Coast to Coast, Ghost to Ghost seemed like, nah, that's a non-starter. | ||
| What about Space Ghost, Coast to Coast? | ||
| We could do that. | ||
| But I found something. | ||
| I found an option to go into. | ||
| I'm pretty excited about it, and here is an Out of Context drop from that. | ||
| In the case of the merman, there's a lot of people who are misunderstanding it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, in the case of the merman. | |
| Yes. | ||
| Encyclopedia Brown, on the case of the merman! | ||
| I found something to go over that might have something to do with merman, but it actually does not. | ||
| How can it not? | ||
| What are you talking about? | ||
| Merman will not factor heavily into this conversation. | ||
| But before we get down to business and talk about what we are here to talk about today, Jordan, we've got to give a shout-out to some people who have signed up and are supporting the show. | ||
| Love them. | ||
| So, first of all, Alex, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a policy wonk. | |
| Next, Chris F. Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a policy wonk. | |
| Join the conspiracy. | ||
| Next, Chris B. Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a policy wonk. | |
| It's growing. | ||
| It's growing on this Halloween. | ||
| Next, Bodie. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a policy wonk. | |
| Thank you, Bodie. | ||
| Hell yeah, Bodie. | ||
| Next, Clown Shoes. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now Policy Wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a Policy Wonk. | |
| Thank you, Clown Shoes. | ||
| Thank you, Clown Shoes. | ||
| And finally, I'd like to say thank you to a couple people who signed up on an elevated level. | ||
| We appreciate that very much. | ||
| So, Cedric, thank you so much. | ||
| And James, thank you so much. | ||
| You are both wonderful technocrats. | ||
| I'm a Policy Wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Crikey, mate. | |
| That's fantastic. | ||
| Have yourself a brew. | ||
| How's your 401k doing, bro? | ||
| We gotta go full tilt boogie on this, Watson, alright? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let's just get down to business. | |
| We ain't making that money off that heroin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why are you pimps so good? | |
| My neck is freakishly large. | ||
| I declare InfoWare un- Thank you so much, Cedric and James. | ||
| Yes, thank you very much. | ||
| If you're out there listening, you're thinking, hey, I'd like this show. | ||
| I like what these gents do. | ||
| I'd like to support them. | ||
| You can do that by going to our website, clicking the button that says... | ||
| Support the show. | ||
| That's on knowledgefight.com. | ||
| I don't know what's going on. | ||
| My head is real foggy today. | ||
| I don't know what it is. | ||
| I'm in a haze. | ||
| We're about to talk about Mermen. | ||
| We are not, actually. | ||
| I can confirm to you that we're not about to talk about Mermen. | ||
| But a couple things real quick before we get going. | ||
| I apologize. | ||
| There's been a slight little bit of sound issues on our last couple episodes. | ||
| We are shifting up some of the recording technique, working in a new workflow, and there's some kinks along the way. | ||
| I apologize. | ||
| Hopefully this episode sounds up to our regular standards, and we're working on it. | ||
| We appreciate your patience. | ||
| And a special shout-out to Zach. | ||
| Who sent us, it might be Alex's intelligence source. | ||
| Oh man, he's double-crossing Alex? | ||
| But sent us a package with a couple of shirts of a band that he found out about called the Titty Babies. | ||
| Thank you very much, Zach. | ||
| Yeah, we appreciate it. | ||
| I'm going to make it one of my gym shirts so people can look at me weird as I'm just getting swole. | ||
| Titty baby? | ||
| With a titty baby on my chest. | ||
| There are not babies on each titty, unfortunately. | ||
| No, but I also had a nice sticker, which I've put up here in the studio. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| So thank you very much, Zach. | ||
| We appreciate it. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So, Jordan, today what we're doing is we are going over an episode of Kevin Moore's show. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So, Kevin Moore, for those of you who have not kept up with the entire Project Camelot saga, is a gentleman who believes he can channel intelligences. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| He can. | ||
| Maybe aliens. | ||
| Maybe other dimensional beings. | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| He does not have to do a fake voice. | ||
| He absolutely doesn't have to do a fake voice because they have confidence in him. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Definitely not because he has confidence in himself. | ||
| Runs a psychic hotline. | ||
| For an exorbitant price. | ||
| Probably. | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| I think each person has a different rate. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| He runs a psychic hotline and he has decided that Carrie Cassidy over at Project Camelot and Mark Richards are running a scam. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so he is in the process of putting out a documentary about how Mark Richards is a murderer. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And he has not hung out with raptor aliens. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And this is all very delightful. | ||
| Carrie Cassidy is furious at him. | ||
| Oh! | ||
| And has decided he's a part of the gay mafia. | ||
| He's a part of the gay... | ||
| Mortal enemies! | ||
| And probably involved with the Illuminati on some level. | ||
| Well, yeah. | ||
| To discredit Mark Richards, because he is friends with space raptors, and they're trying to help humanity against the Illuminati, it's all very complicated. | ||
| Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Anyway, I know that we were shifting away from Project Camelot stuff, but I can't not be intrigued by this mystery that's surrounding it. | ||
| And one of the big things that I find mysterious is, why is Kevin Moore doing this? | ||
| That is a very good question! | ||
| We talked about it. | ||
| It's supposed to be money. | ||
| It's got to be money, but I don't understand why he would get any money out of this. | ||
| Or how! | ||
| I'm not entirely sure either, but... | ||
| He's positioning himself in such a way as to be like a critical voice. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, I'm within this paranormal community and I'm offended by these charlatans like Gary Cassidy and Mark Richards. | ||
| They make us look bad. | ||
| And that is what the voices that I am channeling right now are telling me and you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So I feel like I want to understand a little bit better. | ||
| This guy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Who's trying to, like, can we actually take that as his motivation? | ||
| That he wants to be a thorough gatekeeper who's able to say, like, hey, I'm a trusted voice. | ||
| I'm going to say this is cool. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| So, you know, I looked around a little bit. | ||
| He's going to be a space bouncer. | ||
| And you know what? | ||
| It's honestly because my algorithms are all completely fucked up with my YouTube. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I got suggested a video that he did about time travelers. | ||
| Of course you did. | ||
| Of course you did. | ||
| I figured he did do some stuff about ghosts and channeling dead relatives. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| This kind of feels... | ||
| Creepy? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's not going to be fun to talk about. | ||
| That's going to be gross. | ||
| Time travelers? | ||
| Possibly. | ||
| Now, are any of these fucking time travelers mermen? | ||
| God damn it! | ||
| Nope. | ||
| But Merman will be mentioned in passing. | ||
| Okay, good. | ||
| So here is the introduction that Kevin Moore has for this. | ||
| He's talking to a guy who runs a website, or I guess it's a YouTube channel, called Apex TV. | ||
| And he is on video, and he is just almost completely obscured facially. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| On purpose? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay, so it's like one of those... | ||
| To protect his... | ||
| Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. | ||
| So here is Kevin's introduction. | ||
| Hi guys, and welcome to another edition of The Kevin Moore Show. | ||
| Now, today's show is quite interesting, actually. | ||
| I've got the creator and producer of the Apex TV channel from YouTube coming on. | ||
| This YouTube channel produces interviews that you probably won't find anywhere else. | ||
| And they've gone in the direction of interviewing whistleblowers in time travel. | ||
| So they've been interviewing time travellers. | ||
| Now they've... | ||
| They've been known internationally recently because some of their interviews made it onto news channels throughout the world. | ||
| And they contacted me. | ||
| They asked me for an interview. | ||
| And I was only just too happy to interview them as well. | ||
| Oh, of course. | ||
| Because I do actually enjoy what they do. | ||
| Travel through time? | ||
| I do appreciate that caveat there. | ||
| You've got to make up your own mind on this one. | ||
| If I'm going to be completely clear with you, Jordan, I think this episode is a little bit beneath us. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| There's really nothing complicated going on, nothing too in-depth. | ||
| There's no real, like, lore to sort out or anything. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| The subject at the heart of this episode... | ||
| Dan, we're dealing with time travel, so I believe the answer to that is yet. | ||
| There is no lore yet. | ||
| I have bad news about these time travels. | ||
| Oh, no! | ||
| So the subject at the heart of this episode is this YouTube channel called Apex TV. | ||
| The channel's run by an anonymous guy who appears on camera wearing a hat, big sunglasses, and headphones with his head mostly behind a big microphone. | ||
| They mostly post videos about people who claim that they're time travelers. | ||
| And I want to make one thing super clear right off the bat. | ||
| I'm not mad at anyone for engaging in online immersive fiction. | ||
| I know a lot of people really enjoy the titillation of stuff like that. | ||
| You know, the clearly fake stories presented as truth. | ||
| And I don't necessarily believe that a lot of people who take in this kind of entertainment actually believe the things that they're watching. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Just kind of fun. | ||
| Like, yeah! | ||
| It's not my thing, but I'm not going to spend a lot of my energy judging someone for liking that kind of entertainment. | ||
| And as an extension of that, I'm not going to spend too much of my time critiquing the person who creates that kind of entertainment themselves. | ||
| To the extent that this is just a YouTube channel that lets people send them videos where they pretend to be time travelers, which they then post and make money off of, I'm not going to make too big a deal out of that. | ||
| I'm not going to get all self-righteous about that. | ||
| Yeah, I'm going to go with this one's fun. | ||
| Until you tell me that there's some secret racial animus beneath it. | ||
| I don't know if that's the case. | ||
| There is a difference, though, between that kind of thing and, you know, like online immersive fiction and a hoax. | ||
| I'm not quite sure exactly what the difference is, but it's something I want to explore over the course of this episode. | ||
| The only reason I'm even doing this episode at all is because, like I said, I needed a break from Alex and my YouTube shit is fucked up. | ||
| And it accidentally revealed this episode here. | ||
| I'm like, Kevin Moore is talking to time travel guys. | ||
| I gotta listen to this. | ||
| So I did, and here we are. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It's completely fucked up. | ||
| And I kind of want to keep these characters in mind, because eventually he's got to put out that documentary about Mark Richards. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| And I feel like that will be the... | ||
| All right. | ||
| I feel like that will be the, what is it, the third act of our Project Camelot play, where Carrie ends up suing him or something like that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right, right. | |
| It turns into a real circus. | ||
| I just... | ||
| My two cents? | ||
| I don't think he's ever going to actually release the documentary. | ||
| If he's smart, he probably won't. | ||
| I don't know, though. | ||
| Some of those trailers that he has, it's clear he is getting interviews with a lot of people. | ||
| It would be a lot of work to not actually put it out. | ||
| But we'll see. | ||
| Anyway, Apex TV started out with your standard fare of paranormal clickbait videos, with headlines like, 10 haunted dolls caught on tape. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That kind of shit. | |
| Okay, I like it. | ||
| It wasn't a really successful enterprise, since there's a lot of competition in the disappointing videos market. | ||
| Then, in September 2016, someone sent Apex TV an email claiming to be a time traveler from 2126. | ||
| This guy agreed to film himself talking about time travel. | ||
| Apex TV posted it, and over 1.5 million people have watched that video ever since. | ||
| That really can't be true. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| I really don't like that. | ||
| I want to go back to 10 fucking haunted dolls that are real. | ||
| Give me listicles of lies, Danny. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And then, they claim they got contacted by another time traveler who told them that he came home one day to find that his kitchen sink had flooded. | ||
| He tried to fix it. | ||
| Quote, I had to crawl inside the cabinet, and as I did so, I discovered that it just continued. | ||
| So I kept on crawling further and further into the cabinet. | ||
| At the end of the tunnel, I saw a light, and when I got there, I realized I was in the future. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Alright, now that I'm cool with. | ||
| It's a being John Malkovich situation. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I love that. | ||
| So this guy claimed that he'd traveled to 2042, where he'd met the 72-year-old version of himself. | ||
| He proved this with a video he shot with his older self. | ||
| Sorry, sorry. | ||
| And if you watch the video, they both seem to be taking this whole thing in stride. | ||
| Yeah, of course. | ||
| Just put their arms around each other, smiling, like not freaking out at all about time ripples. | ||
| Well, one of them knew he was going to be there eventually, so the other one is fine with it. | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| I guess he would have to. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| All right, fair enough. | ||
| That explains their blasé attitude. | ||
| Oh, hey, me. | ||
| I met you a while back. | ||
| So they both show that they have the same tattoo on their forearm. | ||
| But honestly, that makes me believe this even less. | ||
| This dude is supposed to be 40 years older, and his tattoo looks just as fresh as the one on his younger self. | ||
| Also, it looks slightly bigger in size, and the positioning on the arm doesn't look identical, but who knows? | ||
| That could just be shoddy camera angles. | ||
| Looks like you just solved the case of the merman, Dan. | ||
| I didn't need to. | ||
| Because in reality, the video of this guy, whose name is Hakan Norkvist, was actually a viral marketing campaign created to promote the pension plans sold by the Swedish insurance company AMF. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, my God. | |
| I want... | ||
| Why is it that pension plans are doing better commercials than anything that we've got going on here? | ||
| As I understand it, the advertising campaign was meant to be like, you can feel secure about your older self. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| That kind of thing. | ||
| It all makes perfect sense. | ||
| The moment you describe it as an ad, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, no, I got it all now. | ||
| Yeah, so it was passed off as a time traveler by these guys over at Apex TV. | ||
| So funny. | ||
| But it didn't matter, you know, that it's all clearly like bullshit. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| It ended up getting like 2.5. | ||
| Everybody wins, except I guess the actor? | ||
| He probably didn't get residual from the YouTube monetization. | ||
| I don't know, but it really worked as a viral campaign. | ||
| Yeah, that killed it. | ||
| To the extent that anyone knows that it was a viral campaign. | ||
| It might not have had the follow-through that you need to get people to buy Swedish insurance plans. | ||
| I don't think a lot of Apex TV viewers are also in the Swedish insurance markets. | ||
| But whatever the case, you've got these two instances where you were making these listicles and it's doing whatever traffic it's doing. | ||
| And you've got one time traveler, one million plus views. | ||
| Swedish insurance commercial presented as time traveler. | ||
| 2.5 million views. | ||
| That's called finding a fucking lane is what that is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly. | |
| You see the writing on the wall? | ||
| Time travel is what we do. | ||
| So from there, the channel has just put out tons of videos featuring people who are claiming to be time travelers. | ||
| Many of their stories are contradictory, but that's okay because Apex TV wants you to decide whether or not these people should be believed. | ||
| It's the standard paranormal conspiracy outlet line. | ||
| I'm just passing along the information. | ||
| You get to choose to believe it or not. | ||
| I think that sort of editorial policy is sloppy and idiotic, but whatever. | ||
| The world has room for sloppy idiots. | ||
| As long as they're not actively creating this content, then pretending they're just passing it along, it's all just kind of in good fun. | ||
| It's Ripley's Believe It or Not, except for YouTube. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| But really, it's embarrassing for Kevin Moore to be interviewing this guy. | ||
| Real bad. | ||
| And not taking a more critical stance than we will see from him. | ||
| Oh boy. | ||
| By the time that they have their interview, it's been years since it came out that the person Apex TV was suggesting was a real time traveler was just an insurance commercial. | ||
| If Kevin's trying to rebrand himself as the guy who calls out frauds in the community like Mark Richards, this is a good place to work that muscle a little bit. | ||
| This would be a real prime opportunity. | ||
| Here's your quickest and dirtiest way of figuring out that this isn't real. | ||
| The Time Traveler is giving an interview to you. | ||
| He is not actually a time traveler. | ||
| It's very simple. | ||
| This guy who's talking to Kevin isn't a time traveler himself. | ||
| He's the liaison of time travelers. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, okay. | |
| I apologize. | ||
| He's the guy who talks to all the time travelers. | ||
| It's a second stage time traveler situation. | ||
| Well, now that I know it's hearsay, then we're fine. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Of course this makes sense. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So you might ask yourself, how did this interview come about? | ||
| How did Kevin get hooked up with the guy who talks to time travelers? | ||
| A Facebook message? | ||
| Probably at some point during this process, yeah. | ||
| Well, thank you for contacting me when you did. | ||
| I really appreciate that. | ||
| That was a bit out of the blue. | ||
| What was the weird thing about that is I had just been looking at your channel a few days ago before that. | ||
| Yeah, I was actually going through the people who were subscribed to my channel, sorting by the most popular, and you were just only a couple down, and I went onto your channel and I saw you have a bunch of interviews with people that I'm really into, and I'm really into the subjects, the videos that you make. | ||
| So I thought, hey, maybe he'd be interested in having me as a guest on the show, and it looks like a cool show, so I'm glad to be on. | ||
| This was the first indication to me that something might be up here. | ||
| You know, I was looking through the people who are subscribed to my channel, and you were, you know, up there in the most popular, so I thought I'd reach out and see. | ||
| That's bananas. | ||
| Yeah, that kind of gives me a sense of, like, this seems to be driven by publicity. | ||
| This seems to be, like, the first indication of, like... | ||
| Crass promotional concerns. | ||
| And that's like minute one of the interview. | ||
| Yeah, that was trouble. | ||
| It's almost being presented as like, you know, we're running the same circles. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But it's not quite. | ||
| Because he is still saying that I was looking at the most popular of my subscribers. | ||
| You got it. | ||
| So that was kind of... | ||
| I mean, there's a certain refreshing candor to it. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Or I'm putting your nuts on the table and just being like, this is what I do. | ||
| For the world to see. | ||
| This is what I got for you. | ||
| I don't know what to tell you. | ||
| I hobnob with people who know the fucking secrets of space and time, and I'm also going through my high subscriber counts to see who I like. | ||
| Yeah, that was a little bit of a troubling thing. | ||
| And also troubling that Kevin is subscribed to his show. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Knowing that this is all like... | ||
| It's for children. | ||
| I watched a couple of their videos and I'm like, what is this bullshit? | ||
| There are big bubble letters all over her? | ||
| Might as well be, yeah. | ||
| That's why I'm saying this is kind of beneath us. | ||
| It does not take any critical thinking skills to deconstruct what this is. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| I'm mostly interested in the fact that Kevin Moore is treating this in any way. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It deserves to be talked about in a serious way. | ||
| The more I find out about Kevin Moore, the more I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? | ||
| What is your game? | ||
| What is your fucking game? | ||
| I have a couple theories. | ||
| And one of them is just he's bad at this. | ||
| He's just kind of dumb. | ||
| That's an underlying theory that I think it would be hard to talk me out of. | ||
| But then there's a second theory that I have about why he's against Carrie. | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| You can't prove it, but it's... | ||
| I'm working on it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And it's developing, and we'll get to that probably a couple episodes down the line if this investigation continues. | ||
| But one of the things is, like I said, I'm concerned primarily with the fact that Kevin is talking to this dude. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And treating it seriously. | ||
| And I think one of the things, in this next clip, I think we're going to see one of the reasons why he's behaving that way. | ||
| Now, this is the kind of weirdest interview I've done, and that's kind of cool, because I think out of all my interviews today, right, this is probably going to be the most fun one, even though it stresses me outright to have no questions, but it's still kind of fun. | ||
| I know what you mean. | ||
| Yeah, I've done a lot of interviews where I don't have many questions prepared, but yeah. | ||
| I've got to say that this interview is not starting off promising. | ||
| Kevin just outright said that he hasn't prepared for this interview. | ||
| He has no questions ready, which I find troubling. | ||
| This is where the whole thing becomes really interesting to me. | ||
| Because, like, on the one hand, this Apex TV is never something I want to cover. | ||
| It's really just amateurish clickbait bullshit targeted at idiots and children. | ||
| Naturally. | ||
| Which I'm not particularly interested in. | ||
| I feel like it would largely be a waste of time to critique it. | ||
| In the same way, I don't have time to tell you about how that link for that one superfood that'll save your life is not on the up and up. | ||
| Dude, I've got this one weird trick for you that will do I don't even know how many things at this point. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's not a good use of time. | ||
| That's just frivolous bullshit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| But Kevin Moore pretends to be a journalist. | ||
| He's trying to establish his brand as this gatekeeper, like a trusted voice to guide you through the good and the bad of the space paranormal weirdo world. | ||
| He clearly has interest in calling people out who he feels are giving the community a bad name, so you'd expect he'd have that more broadly speaking than just singularly applied to Carrie and Mark. | ||
| Yeah, it would make sense, unless there was something personal, unless, oh shit! | ||
| Is Mark actually his real dad? | ||
| No. | ||
| Oh, are you sure? | ||
| I can't prove it, but no. | ||
| So if he's trying to present himself, like we talked about, as some sort of a gatekeeper, you'd think he'd apply this perspective more broadly as opposed to the singular focus. | ||
| If he wants to get any mileage out of the perception that he takes this stuff seriously and resents people who are out there scamming people, making the serious researchers look bad, he takes on certain responsibilities, namely that he should be trying. | ||
| Case in point, he's starting this episode out framing it as if Apex TV is talking to time-traveling whistleblowers, which is meant to lend credibility to their videos. | ||
| If he'd done any preparation, he could ask about how exactly these people ended up promoting a viral insurance ad as if it was a time-travel whistleblower. | ||
| That would be a good place to start. | ||
| I feel like that's the first question that needs to be answered before you can even proceed with the interview. | ||
| At least... | ||
| It would be if Kevin were an interviewer who was actually interested in upholding certain standards in the paranormal world, which it appears that he's not. | ||
| So anyway, I don't know. | ||
| This is bad. | ||
| When you start off with, like, I don't have any questions for you, guy who talks to time travelers? | ||
| What? | ||
| How could you not have questions? | ||
| I have so many questions. | ||
| I have... | ||
| Are you... | ||
| I just, what's even better is that he commiserates along with him. | ||
| He's like, yeah, I don't have questions for interviews all the time, too. | ||
| We are both bad at our jobs. | ||
| It would be one. | ||
| Let's do it. | ||
| Like, legitimately, let's say. | ||
| Out of the blue, I get a big bong message that comes up on my screen. | ||
| And it's like, hey, I talked to time travelers. | ||
| I will allow you to interview me in 10 minutes. | ||
| I would still have questions. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| So many. | ||
| There's no amount of immediacy that the interview could come that I wouldn't have some sort of like, all right, I'm going to gather my thoughts really quick. | ||
| Right now, how do you time travel? | ||
| Can't answer that one? | ||
| All right, next. | ||
| Why do you time travel? | ||
| Again, he's not talking to the time traveler, but, you know, you still could ask those questions of, like, you clearly have asked those questions to the time travelers. | ||
| You fucking better have. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Although, on the other hand, you just told me that a lot of the time you don't have any questions, so... | ||
| What's the best insurance in Sweden? | ||
| AMF. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| We'll know in 40 years, though. | ||
| So, the questions that we do get are, at the beginning of this, are like, hey, why are you hiding behind that microphone? | ||
| Well, that's a good one. | ||
| So, why are you nameless to begin with? | ||
| Well, I don't want to give out any personal information as of right now, because I've interviewed a lot of people who've expressed concerns for their security, and I think by distributing their messages, if they're telling the truth, that concern for their security could translate into me and the team here at Apex TV. | ||
| That doesn't sound right. | ||
| That's the reason we've chosen to stay anonymous as of right now. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Another possibility is you know you're scamming people. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That could be. | ||
| You don't want blowback from that. | ||
| That's another possibility. | ||
| Which again, I mean... | ||
| Another reason could be he works at Home Depot and he would prefer not to be fired from Home Depot. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's a lot of reasons a lot of people use anonymity when they're fucking around online. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| I didn't do too much looking into trying to figure out who this person is, because I'll respect their anonymity to the extent that they are. | ||
| I don't think that there's anything that I can tell that they're up to that elevates past the level of, like, I don't know. | ||
| Fucking around internet nonsense. | ||
| Yeah, I think that... | ||
| Of course you would... | ||
| In that line of work, it's just a good idea to say you have to be anonymous. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Yeah, just throw it out there just for fun. | ||
| In some ways, whenever you're engaged in this sort of LARP... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's by default you say you need to be anonymous for protection. | ||
| Oh, for sure. | ||
| Because if you don't, it almost raises too many questions. | ||
| You should have to be anonymous if you're saying these things. | ||
| That's fair. | ||
| Otherwise you have to pull the Mark Richards' like, no, I was off-planet, but they're giving you a different story and they don't care. | ||
| I've been burned. | ||
| They know I'm crazy, so it's fine. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So, in this next clip, we get to a discussion of Apex TV's greatest work. | ||
| The Swedish. | ||
| No, that was big. | ||
| But what really put them on the map was this one time traveler that they talked to. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And it was a younger gentleman. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| And it ended up getting them a bunch of mainstream coverage. | ||
| Cool. | ||
| Maybe not quite, you know, CNN. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| But still, like, some foreign news outlets. | ||
| Yeah, alright. | ||
| I saw recently you got it. | ||
| You was on talk shows all over the world, in some cases. | ||
| There was one in Australia. | ||
| You was over here in the UK on the magazines, newspapers. | ||
| That was pretty impressive. | ||
| Yeah, I was surprised at the reception of one of those interviews we did with a man named Noah, who claimed to be a time traveler from the year 2030. | ||
| And it was actually him that went on a lot of those talk shows and everything. | ||
| I did go on a couple, but it's amazing the reach into the mainstream news that this has gotten because the ironic thing is that the people we've interviewed say they've tried to contact the mainstream news and they haven't been receptive to them and they haven't taken up their stories. | ||
| And then by us taking up their stories and it actually reaches the mainstream news, that's a... | ||
| It really surprised me, and it really gave me hope. | ||
| The dirty mainstream news, and they're covering up. | ||
| Yeah, this is just another attack on the news. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Fake news. | ||
| They won't talk about my time travel buddies. | ||
| Not believe in time travelers. | ||
| Also, point of order, 2030 is a bad year to choose. | ||
| That is way too soon. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| That is only like 10 years away. | ||
| Oh, no, way too soon. | ||
| You can't really embellish a bunch of stuff if you... | ||
| Choose 2030. | ||
| I would have gone with a different year if I was him. | ||
| What year would you choose for time travel? | ||
| I don't know, 75-82. | ||
| 75-82? | ||
| Yeah, then I could just make up everything. | ||
| Right, that's fair. | ||
| It's so far in the future that, like, how will... | ||
| We don't even breathe anymore. | ||
| Prove me wrong. | ||
| We'll evolve out of breathing because the atmosphere will be destroyed. | ||
| Then why do you look like you do right now? | ||
| Well, because we also have technology to revert ourselves back. | ||
| We could de-evolve. | ||
| Shit, this is airtight. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So, one of Apex TV's biggest claim to fame was their work that they did with a person named Noah, who was said to be, like you said, a time traveler from the year 2030. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Got a message for mankind. | ||
| Noah had been recruited into a time travel program in 2025, where his job would be to go back in time to help compile a compendium of all history. | ||
| So Noah traveled back to our time, which makes almost no sense. | ||
| Since, you know, 2017, the time that he showed up in, wouldn't be a mysterious time to the people in 2030. | ||
| You'd think they'd be more interested in figuring out what was going on in ancient times, or checking out that Jesus character, or something like that. | ||
| You know. | ||
| You could make a good argument that the 2016 election may be historically relevant for future civilizations, but I would suggest that they will not be wanting for information about it. | ||
| That's probably true. | ||
| It's been pretty well documented, the things that are happening in the present day. | ||
| But maybe what happened was they lost the internet. | ||
| And gained time travel. | ||
| It was a one-to-one... | ||
| I don't know if you know this, there's still a lot of books being published. | ||
| Ah, not time travel, but I don't know. | ||
| Still a lot of people chiseling things in stone. | ||
| That was when Wikipedia first came to... | ||
| Sentience? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So anyway, Noah came back to our time, but ended up getting fired from his job with this future time travel organization after he got into a bar fight in South America. | ||
| This trapped Noah in the present day, which was his past, so he had to create a new persona and try and do the best he could. | ||
| If you consider for one second the story that's being told here, you have to pause and ask some serious follow-ups. | ||
| The first is, what kind of secret time travel program is just going to recruit someone who will then know all their secrets and fire them for something as trivial as getting into a bar fight? | ||
| Just going to cut them loose in the past. | ||
| I used to work at a movie theater and one of my co-workers showed up for a shift with a black eye and a big cut bragging about getting into a bar fight the night before and they didn't even tell him to take the day off. | ||
| It seems unlikely that a time travel program would consider this termination worthy as an offense. | ||
| I mean, you can't have this kind of moral behavior reflect poorly back on the time travel company. | ||
| But even if that's the case, why strand the dude who knows all your secrets in the past when you can't control him then? | ||
| Any half-decent secret time travel outfit is going to kill this guy. | ||
| Or at very least, bring him back to 2030 and lock him up there. | ||
| For sure! | ||
| Or lock him up here. | ||
| Find a guy who can... | ||
| any of these things. | ||
| It makes you wonder how much time travel detritus is left behind by... | ||
| They're littering time garbage! | ||
| If I were the person doing an interview with this guy, this would be a hole in the story that I would really need a good explanation for. | ||
| It would bother me. | ||
| So Noah had some fun stories to tell about what life was like in 2030. | ||
| For one, he informed the world that MLK Jr., Martin Luther King Jr., his granddaughter, Yolanda Renee King, will become president. | ||
| That's fun. | ||
| One problem is that Yolanda was born in 2008, so that would make her 21 years old in 2030, which is lower. | ||
| And you have to be 21 years old to run for president. | ||
| Well, it's lower than the minimum age for someone to become president, as we understand now. | ||
| Right, there we go. | ||
| See, Noah explained that by that point, a law will be passed that allows younger people to be president. | ||
| But he doesn't seem to understand that this would require a full-on amendment, since the presidential age limit is from Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution. | ||
| I feel like if we get to the point where two-thirds of the House and Senate pass an amendment lowering the age required to be president, and then three-quarters of the states ratify it, I think the fact that 21-year-olds could be president is not the headline. | ||
| The big story here would have to be the massive political realignment that would have to happen in the next 10 years to get us to the point where these stuffy-ass Washington political class are trying to get youth into the White House. | ||
| Headline 2025, what the fuck's going on? | ||
| Like, really, from a political science perspective, what could bring that about? | ||
| Like, really think about it. | ||
| One possibility would be that we see a trend of high levels, like, we already are seeing this, and it would have to continue, the high levels of political engagement in the youth. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| It would have to continue to the point where they become the only political relevant voting bloc in the country. | ||
| As more and more people control the vote, they could vote in younger senators and representatives who would be then inclined to push for that amendment, I guess. | ||
| But this younger voting bloc wouldn't be single-issue voters just based on lowering the age you have to be to run for president. | ||
| There would be ripple effects, like polling shows that the youth are pretty overwhelmingly in favor of some pretty left positions, particularly ones related to civil rights issues and climate change. | ||
| If they fix their wills to the point where they got that kind of constitutional amendment passed, you have to assume their presence would be felt in so many other places. | ||
| Like, this amendment would be a side note to the bigger news that fossil fuels have been outlawed. | ||
| Right? | ||
| I mean, I feel like it would be a side note to the bigger news that everyone over 40 died. | ||
| See, that's the other consideration. | ||
| That's the only other possibility, right? | ||
| There had to have been an apocalypse. | ||
| Or a plague that strikes. | ||
| Some sort of new illness strikes, but it only affects the older population. | ||
| And thus... | ||
| Everyone's got to grow up real fast. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| If there's nobody over the age of 35, there can be no president, Dan. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Something like that is possible. | ||
| But again, in that case, the amendment is not news. | ||
| So he says that Yolanda King is president in 2030. | ||
| And he says that she's elected at the age of 21. There's another problem here. | ||
| And that is that 2030 is not a presidential election year. | ||
| Yes, you're right. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| He's a little wishy-washy about her actually being elected in 2030, but he does say that she's elected at 21, which she would be in 2030. | ||
| Right. | ||
| If she was elected in 2028, she would be 19 at that point. | ||
| None of this makes any sense. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| And is honestly completely disqualifying. | ||
| Anybody who would consider this shit for a second is an idiot or they're running a con. | ||
| One of the two. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So this is the sort of work that Apex TV is doing. | ||
| Clearly, not good stuff. | ||
| Otherwise known as the Lord's work. | ||
| And again, who cares? | ||
| They're having fun. | ||
| To the best of our knowledge, they're having fun. | ||
| I'm not going to be a grumpy Uncle Dan over here being like, you internet kids. | ||
| Noah got to go on TV all around the world. | ||
| How great is that? | ||
| It's clearly part of some corner of the internet that I'm not a part of and I don't fully understand. | ||
| So I'm not going to stake too much of my effort on being like... | ||
| Shaking my fist at it. | ||
| But at the same time, if you look at it, it is still like a guy trying to present himself as like, you know, you can decide whether this is real or not. | ||
| Well, why don't you help people decide a little bit by asking a fucking question? | ||
| Anyway. | ||
| Also, Noah predicted that multiple U.S. cities would be completely destroyed by snowstorms in February 2019, which I don't think happened. | ||
| I'm pretty sure. | ||
| What year is it now? | ||
| 2019. | ||
| Ooh, that's trouble. | ||
| That's not going well. | ||
| So he revealed this information in a video where he was holding a piece of paper purporting to be a page from a book that lays out our future history. | ||
| This page is labeled 2019 to 2020, and it just has six entries on it, which it seems... | ||
| Boy, this is apocalypse written all over it. | ||
| It seems... | ||
| Everything is gone. | ||
| It seems a little minimalistic. | ||
| It's just a crumpled up piece of computer paper that's been slightly distressed to look weathered. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure. | ||
| Legitimately, it looks like something a junior high student would make if they're trying to come up with a prop. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's hard for me to really put this into words, but it's embarrassing. | ||
| It's pretty sad. | ||
| I've soaked paper in tea and then baked it for a little bit, and that gives you a little parchment feel. | ||
| It's good stuff. | ||
| Yeah, so Noah made the rounds on some talk shows and got a bunch of publicity, which was largely filtered back to Apex TV, since he was appearing with his face obscured, you know, he had a pixelated thing, and they altered his voice, so that made it pretty much anonymous. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| their logo. | ||
| It's all free press. | ||
| This is one of the more low-rent, lazy scams I've seen in my time looking at the paranormal space grifter world. | ||
| It's remarkable to me to imagine that anyone would look at this shit and even give it a second thought, quite honestly. | ||
| It's even more insane that this Apex TV would promote this story that's so clearly full of basic holes. | ||
| Unless they don't care. | ||
| It's just like, this is all just bullshit. | ||
| Who cares? | ||
| Get it out the door. | ||
| We'll get some money out of this. | ||
| Then on top of that, it's bananas. | ||
| Kevin Moore would have such low standards that he's doing a softball interview with the guy who's promoting this very clearly full of shit nonsense. | ||
| But that's exactly what's happening. | ||
| Alright, so the guy that we're talking with right now. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Anonymous guy. | ||
| Yes, anonymous guy. | ||
| I'm probably just going to refer to it as Apex TV. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| Apex TV, dude. | ||
| He is obscured, but his voice is not altered. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Now, Noah is both obscured and his voice is altered. | ||
| Yes, pixelated over the face. | ||
| Now, if I'm Apex guy, why am I not both guys? | ||
| You have to be both guys. | ||
| It's definitely not. | ||
| It's definitely not? | ||
| We'll get to that later. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But, yeah, I thought about that as well. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Why not? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| I mean, if you're already Apex guy, of course you're going to jump into time travel. | ||
| Why not? | ||
| You've got nothing to lose. | ||
| I think you've got to be worried about the possibility of, like, raw footage getting leaked. | ||
| Someone getting their hands on that. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know exactly why you wouldn't do it. | ||
| It seems like you'd have... | ||
| One less loose string. | ||
| Yeah, well, the only thing I was thinking is because Moore asks him, or he says, you went on TV, did all these interviews all around the world, and then he goes like, no, I did some, but it was this other guy making me think that Moore knows that it was all him, and he has to then say... | ||
| Kevin doesn't know shit. | ||
| Kevin, well, yeah. | ||
| I should start from that operating position always. | ||
| Yeah, that's a theme. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| So, in this next clip, we get to find out that Apex, they're getting a lot, they talk to a lot of time travelers. | ||
| Eventually, we got contacted by this man claiming to be a time traveler from the year 2026, I think, and that was our first interview in which we actually sat down with somebody in person. | ||
| And he told us an amazing story. | ||
| I think he really believed what he was saying. | ||
| Whether or not he was telling the truth is another story. | ||
| But it was a really interesting interview, and I think the viewers thought so as well. | ||
| The reach to that was incredible. | ||
| And ever since then, like in my inbox in the last week, I have maybe 20 people claiming to be time travelers from various years. | ||
| So it's getting hard to... | ||
| To interview all these people and going through each one, one by one, is quite the challenge. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| If you thought any of them were actual time travelers, you'd make the time. | ||
| Also, 20 is not that many. | ||
| It's a lot. | ||
| You could vet 20 time travelers in a good two or three hours. | ||
| I would ask you, how do you vet a time traveler? | ||
| Facebook, first off. | ||
| How? | ||
| What do you do? | ||
| Put their name in there. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Did it pop up? | ||
| Yeah, but if you're back in time, you could make a Facebook page. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| It's very easy. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All you need is an email address. | ||
| Yeah, but there's other information. | ||
| I'm just saying, like, right off the bat. | ||
| So if they claim to have shown up in 2017 and they have Facebook posts from 2015? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| That does indicate a problem. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| See what I'm saying? | ||
| But that's not going to be the case for all of them. | ||
| And some of them are going to be using aliases. | ||
| You're not even going to be able to find their Facebook page. | ||
| But say you got 20, I say in the first 10 minutes you can knock out at least 4 or 5 of those. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So now you got 15 and you got a whole day to go through 15? | ||
| I bet you could do it. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| No problem. | ||
| I think that you're underestimating the workload that this would bring up. | ||
| I think that you probably imagine just everything is this way. | ||
| Oh, yeah, it is. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| I mean time traveling specifically. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You do a lot of work for real world shit. | |
| I can prove somebody is not a time traveler in 10 minutes. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Listeners, pretend to be a time traveler. | ||
| Email Jordan. | ||
| 20 of you. | ||
| Just 20 of you. | ||
| Yeah, just 20. Just so you can get a taste of this. | ||
| I'll knock it out in five minutes. | ||
| Well, you're in on it now, and you can just say none of them are. | ||
| I could have said that anyway! | ||
| You probably should. | ||
| Anyway. | ||
| We got an indication earlier that there is this sort of, like, huh, you know, this guy is coming on Kevin's show because he's one of his more popular subscribers. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| These sorts of interests and these sort of, like, motivations come up a bit. | ||
| Well, I'll just say, I mean, that's, you know, I mean, I've got... | ||
| I can beat this out, but I mean, you're making some serious money from this channel as well. | ||
| And I think the figures are quite right on Social Blade because they're right for my channel. | ||
| So, first of all... | ||
| I say congratulations for that, right? | ||
| Yeah, you have to understand we're employing people to transcribe all the videos, putting them into text forms so we can put them out on our website. | ||
| We're making the videos into formats that will be acceptable for Instagram, Facebook. | ||
| We're actually translating the videos now into other languages, including Korean, Espanol, Spanish, a couple other languages. | ||
| Oh, Hindi. | ||
| We've actually got those channels launched already. | ||
| So a lot of the money is, most of the money is going right back into Apex TV and into employing more people to spread these people's messages. | ||
| And our goal is just to make an environment in which people aren't afraid to tell their stories. | ||
| So, making a lot of money, but yeah, just going back into running the business. | ||
| There's a lot of deflectionary things like that. | ||
| And that entire theme of like... | ||
| You know, hey, we're not saying this is true or not. | ||
| We're just going to make a place where things are comfortable for people to come forward with their bullshit. | ||
| Which is, I guess, fine. | ||
| It's kind of enabling in some ways. | ||
| This is a really wild space weirdo interview already out the gate. | ||
| They're breaking a lot of rules. | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| Talking money? | ||
| Yeah! | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| Or just said, like, hey, I know basically how much money you're making because of how much money I'm making, so congratulations. | ||
| That is a little... | ||
| That is not okay. | ||
| That's a slight mask slip moment. | ||
| Yeah, that's not good. | ||
| That is... | ||
| Hey, good job. | ||
| Yeah, I don't... | ||
| No. | ||
| I guess on the one hand, you could look at it as, like, we're just talking about it in terms of the financials, but what we're really actually talking about underneath is, like, how many people are seeing the message. | ||
| Yeah, try and sell that to anybody. | ||
| I'm sure that would be kind of the way that they would try. | ||
| But it does seem like that money, promotion, attention is much more the currency that they're trafficking in. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I find this very weird. | ||
| And also, just that constant refrain of... | ||
| Like, I want to just put their stories out here. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I don't know if it's true or not. | ||
| I don't know if it's true or not. | ||
| That is so consistent, and it's just weird. | ||
| I am just heroically bringing what may be truth to the people. | ||
| And the mainstream media ignores. | ||
| They can't do it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| They're too afraid. | ||
| Without me, Noah would have never been on television. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Fine. | ||
| Then again, neither would these 20 other guys who are lying as well, but that's not important. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So, Kevin gets around to talking about how, like, It's weird. | ||
| No time travellers talk to me. | ||
| Oh my god! | ||
| You know, I don't get these people coming to me, right? | ||
| I've never had... | ||
| Well, maybe one. | ||
| Maybe one. | ||
| And it was about what the real story of the John Tita story was all about. | ||
| And it was just so crazy and out there that actually it almost did sound actually there was some truth in it, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It was a love story mixed in with this as well, and I've got all the contacts still. | ||
| Yeah, it... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| I've never actually really talked about this. | ||
| I went all the way down to London actually to interview this lady who had met this person many years ago. | ||
| It had destroyed her in some ways because she fell in love with this guy. | ||
| Is he talking about the time traveller's wife? | ||
| He's still in Mexico, apparently. | ||
| And the whole John Teter story is not what we think it is. | ||
| It's actually very different to what the actual... | ||
| So I've only come across it once and I never did anything with it. | ||
| Why didn't you do anything with it? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I also, when I was listening to that, I was like, I've never seen or read the time traveler's wife. | |
| But that sounds like it could be the time traveler's wife. | ||
| It seems like the plot you might write if you've never seen it and just heard the title. | ||
| It's definitely somebody's book. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, John Teeter is the classic, you know who that is, right? | ||
| Huh, no. | ||
| I don't want to get too in-depth on it. | ||
| I think we'll probably end up covering it if we keep going with Coast to Coast AM, just because it's a huge thing in that world. | ||
| I might know it. | ||
| I'm just terrible with names. | ||
| He's a guy who claimed to be a time traveler and made a bunch of shit predictions. | ||
| And then other people have claimed to be the real John Teeter. | ||
| Yeah, we talked about him the last time we talked about time-traveling weirdos. | ||
| But I just do not remember names. | ||
| We haven't gone in depth on it, because it's a gigantic body of work, let's say. | ||
| But it's a big part of the online time travel theory world. | ||
| There's pretenders, there's the original fake, it's a mess. | ||
| But yeah, I found that to be strange because I don't know what he's actually talking about. | ||
| Does he actually think there's a time traveler? | ||
| Or did he talk to a lady who got conned by someone who said they were a time traveler but is actually in Mexico? | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| I don't know what the fuck he's talking about. | ||
| I know somebody didn't make any money off of this and somebody definitely lost some money. | ||
| So that's all I know. | ||
| And Kevin decided not to do anything with it, which might be an indication of good judgment. | ||
| He could be both. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So... | ||
| I don't think that if our listeners email you and try and make you vet them, I don't think you're going to have too tough a time with it because, like I said, you'll just ignore all of it and say none of them are time travelers. | ||
| Which I think is good. | ||
| I think that's a positive approach. | ||
| That would be your approach. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Now we get to hear a little bit about Apex TV's approach towards vetting time travelers. | ||
| How can you vet these people? | ||
| That's the issue. | ||
| Like, we've had a few who we go through with doing a... | ||
| So you see, we don't go straight to doing an in-person interview. | ||
| First off, we do a couple of Skype interviews. | ||
| We ask them if they have any conclusive proof or anything. | ||
| And if what they're showing us seems to be holding up, we sometimes do go as far as meeting them in person. | ||
| We've done it a variety of times, traveled all over the world, actually had some of the best experiences of my life. | ||
| For example, we went to Armenia on several occasions, other European countries. | ||
| To do interviews with these people. | ||
| So, yeah, that's a major issue. | ||
| It's like, how do we know? | ||
| Yeah, and what we're trying to do is create an environment in which people aren't afraid to tell their story. | ||
| So I think almost the less vetting, the better. | ||
| But if someone's obviously trying to pull your leg, like we've had that many times, like we go on with an interview with somebody and they're wearing a ski mask. | ||
| And they seem to be making a joke out of the whole thing. | ||
| He looks like he's five years old or something. | ||
| We've had that a couple times. | ||
| Here's how you know someone's trying to pull your leg. | ||
| They tell you they're a time traveler. | ||
| I... | ||
| So what's the line, man? | ||
| Here's the two things that we learned from that clip. | ||
| The first is that the answer is, how do you vet these people? | ||
| We don't. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That's the number one thing. | ||
| I believe you said you don't want to do too much vetting? | ||
| We talked to them a couple times, see if they're just yelling. | ||
| Because that's just not going to be good for the brand. | ||
| If they're five years old, that's an issue. | ||
| Or if they're clearly just mentally ill, that's not going to work for us. | ||
| So we do a couple Skype interviews to make sure that they can coherently say a couple lines. | ||
| And then we move forward with it. | ||
| So that's the vetting process. | ||
| It's just an audition, almost. | ||
| Which is great. | ||
| And then the second thing that we learn is they're making enough money to travel to fucking Europe repeatedly. | ||
| Yeah, I'm really not liking these guys. | ||
| So that's good. | ||
| I'm really not liking this. | ||
| So this scam is working. | ||
| You are fucking bumming me out, man. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Good. | ||
| Happy Halloween. | ||
| This is beneath us. | ||
| Also, we're broke. | ||
| And they are flying around and having the best time of their lives, Dan. | ||
| It's beneath us from a content standpoint to just critically discuss them, perhaps. | ||
| But they're not irrelevant in some sense. | ||
| They are massively popular in a world that we're not a part of. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| Yeah, so it's still not punching down, even if this is profoundly stupid stuff. | ||
| I'm... | ||
| Not furious. | ||
| I'm more furious that we are punching up at them. | ||
| That is what I am expressing my frustration with. | ||
| I think we just need no vetting. | ||
| Yeah, really. | ||
| This entire show is vetting, and we're doing it wrong! | ||
| Yeah, apparently. | ||
| So it turns out when you don't vet, some people end up being outed as liars. | ||
| And we've had some people actually come out as being fake. | ||
| For example, we did an interview with Michael Phillips. | ||
| who claims to have been from, I forget what year, but he talked about a third world war. | ||
| And he actually came out a couple weeks ago. | ||
| He posted a video on his channel saying it was all fake to see if we would take his story and everything. | ||
| And I think that some people might see that as, I don't know, but I think it... | ||
| I think it serves us good in the sense that they can see that we're not part of these people. | ||
| We're not telling them what to say. | ||
| They're the ones coming to us. | ||
| And I saw in the comments section a lot of people were asking him, did Apex TV pay you? | ||
| Because that's what everybody's saying online. | ||
| And he responded to all the comments saying, no, I was just trying to see if Apex TV would take up my story. | ||
| So, you know, that might be the case with many of these people. | ||
| But if just one person is telling the truth, it proves that... | ||
| It proves that things are going on that the public doesn't know about behind closed doors. | ||
| But what if no one's telling the truth? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, his premise is correct. | |
| If there is one time traveler, one, then the whole game is up. | ||
| You bet. | ||
| You know, there's just the whole thing. | ||
| You bet. | ||
| It's all over. | ||
| Now. | ||
| We start from year zero if there's one time traveler. | ||
| I agree with you. | ||
| However. | ||
| There can't be a house! | ||
| Proving that there is one is... | ||
| It should be easy. | ||
| It's very easy. | ||
| It kind of should be. | ||
| So it turns out, Jordan, Michael Phillips, that guy that he's talking about in that clip there, is not the only time traveler. | ||
| That's Phelps. | ||
| He's not the only time traveler who's been promoted by Apex TV that has come out and said that what they did was fake. | ||
| So this video that he's doing, this interview, is taking place in 2018. | ||
| Well, you remember that guy Noah that we talked about? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well, in July 2019, Apex TV put out a video revealing that the person claiming to be Noah, the time traveler who got all this mainstream news coverage, was actually just a guy named Jason who'd faked the whole thing. | ||
| Right. | ||
| In the video put out by Apex, Jason explains that he was an alienated kid, lonely and bullied, who'd stumbled into Apex TV. | ||
| He really got into the whole thing and decided to contact them claiming to be a time traveler. | ||
| The entire message feels very curated, though, with lines like, quote, just because I lied, it doesn't mean that other people aren't telling the truth. | ||
| Okay, alright. | ||
| The video feels like it was created in order to address the fact that this story was bullshit, but also maintain the perception that everything else probably isn't. | ||
| It also feels like it serves a very specific purpose, namely to put the blame for the lie on Jason. | ||
| He was socially isolated and insecure, so he concocted this plot. | ||
| Apex TV was just a media outlet for him to tell his lie. | ||
| And they did everything in their power to check his story. | ||
| They even gave him a lie detector test. | ||
| So what more do you want from these people? | ||
| This feels a lot like media relations, not like an update to the story. | ||
| Another thing that seems weird is that all of the NOAA videos are still up on the Apex channel. | ||
| Well, yeah. | ||
| None of their titles have been changed to something like Guy Lies to Us About Time Travel. | ||
| Yeah, but it's still good content, man. | ||
| Just because it's not true doesn't mean it's not good content. | ||
| But there should be a, like, parentheses debunked or something. | ||
| What are they? | ||
| The Guardian? | ||
| No, this is Apex TV. | ||
| Debunk yourself. | ||
| They still have titles like, quote, Time Traveler from 2030 Reveals Future of the Philippines. | ||
| And quote, time traveler meets his future self. | ||
| No disclaimers or anything. | ||
| Yeah, they should probably just have Jason. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Jason reveals secrets of 2030. | ||
| Also, that video where he meets his future self, who apparently has come back to 2017 from 2070, that's how it goes, right? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| So this guy originally came from 2030 to 2017. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And now 2070 version has come back to 2017. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| And they're meeting up. | ||
| They're going to start a band? | ||
| Well, here's the thing. | ||
| It creates a ton of problems now that we know that it's all a lie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| How did that happen? | ||
| So you have Noah lying, and now you have a completely separate person who decided to get in on the lie. | ||
| So Apex TV sets up a meeting between the two? | ||
| If this is supposed to be true, how can this even work with the story? | ||
| I thought Noah got fired from the time-traveling job and got stranded in 2017, so this guy from 2070 would have to be like 60 years older than him, but he's clearly not. | ||
| He's just how old he would be aged from 2030 onto 27. It makes no sense. | ||
| He wouldn't have the additional 13 years. | ||
| The Noah in 2030 is no longer in the future. | ||
| Like, past the time that he comes back to 2017. | ||
| So that version of himself shouldn't exist. | ||
| It's just an embarrassing showing. | ||
| But, you know, Apex TV is just there to tell people's stories. | ||
| It's not their fault that the stories that they're telling are lies. | ||
| They felt victim to an elaborate fraud carried out by a socially isolated teen and a 40-year-old guy who wanted to pretend to be his future self. | ||
| It could happen to anyone. | ||
| That really does sound like... | ||
|
unidentified
|
It could happen to anyone. | |
| That is a common story. | ||
| I go down to the salon, we all play Go, and we talk about this circumstance happening all the time. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Considering the logistics of how this would end up happening, it doesn't seem like it would end up happening except by a guiding hand. | ||
| He was absolutely right when he said it's a good idea not to do too much vetting. | ||
| In the same way, it's a good idea not to worry too much about whether or not your story makes sense. | ||
| If you start putting that effort into it, then people are going to recognize the craft. | ||
| Whereas if you have no effort, people are just going to think you're lying, and some people are going to think you're telling the truth. | ||
| Doesn't need effort. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| So, you know, they're talking about this, and like, so Michael Phillips is, you know, he wasn't true. | ||
| It all turned out to not be true. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So Kevin asks an interesting question, and that is like, have you ever been talking to one of these people and just be like, eh, I don't know about this? | ||
| No, I have not. | ||
| Is there times in an interview where you just think... | ||
| This is just a load of rubbish, or this is just, I just can't, this isn't, this is something I can't swallow, do you know what I mean? | ||
| This is just, I can't go down this direction, but, you know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Go ahead. | |
| During the mermaid interview, I remember when he, when I asked him if he could speak mermaid, and he started making those sounds, that was the hardest I've ever tried not to laugh during an interview. | ||
| I didn't want to be disrespectful if this man really believed he was a mermaid, but... | ||
| Yeah, there are times like that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, look, you know, I deal with a lot of shows that with people that channel, you could say the same thing for them, do you know what I mean, in some respects. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly, yeah. | |
| And, I mean, I never, you know, I'm doing a documentary on channeling, that's why I'm heading back out to the States soon, just to finish that documentary off. | ||
| Oh, cool. | ||
| No, we can't be doing this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But, you know, you could say the same thing about people. | |
| Come on, we can't be, we can't have both of you commiserating on the, like, I know, some people just lie to your face. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, I mean, it's really interesting, because here what's going on is Kevin has asked him, what's the most laughable thing you've ever seen? | ||
| He's like, well, a guy pretending to do a mermaid voice. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You know, that's kind of like whenever I talk to channelers. | ||
| Put two and two together, asshole. | ||
| No shit. | ||
| And they're both just moving on. | ||
| Just moving on. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| Isn't it weird that sometimes people lie to us, of all people? | ||
| The most, like, one interpretation you could take of that is that Kevin Moore is saying, like, oh, that's very similar. | ||
| The channeler to the bullshit that I deal with, which is the channelers who do all these ridiculous voices. | ||
| The other reading of it that you could take is Kevin Moore believing that the channeler's weird voices are sincere and genuine and then being like, well, you know, maybe that guy was talking mermaid. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So anyway. | ||
| They don't talk about it much, but he interviewed a guy who claimed to be a mermaid. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I believe the direct quote began with, during the mermaid episode, which is something that I don't hear often enough, Dan. | ||
| That was not something I decided to look into for this episode. | ||
| Leave that one well enough alone. | ||
| Let me tell you something. | ||
| In ten minutes, I can debunk whether or not you're a mermaid. | ||
| Send me an email through your water computer. | ||
| I love the idea that maybe you're going to get a fuck ton of emails from this. | ||
| So he also, Apex TV, has another interview that's coming up. | ||
| This is in the context of a conversation where Kevin's trying to ask him about, like, do any of them have technology? | ||
| And he's like, well, some of them say they have technology. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Good, good sign. | ||
| One of them has a top, a spinning top. | ||
| And I did actually go watch this video. | ||
| It is just a top. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he claims that it has something to do with, like, it connects to his brain and endorphins or something. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure, sure. | ||
| And he's like, well, you know, I know that you won't think this is future technology, but people in the future who look back and see this video, they will know that I was a timed... | ||
| Who cares? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Anyway, that's the least important thing about this guy. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| There's another indication that I get that something might be up with this dude. | ||
| So in a couple days, we're going to do the interview with him, and he's going to show it to us. | ||
| That's on Skype, and I'm excited to see what he has to say. | ||
| He sounded like an Australian man who said some empire never went... | ||
| Dang, I forgot the empire, but he said one of them never got overtaken, and they... | ||
| The Ottoman Empire. | ||
| He said they never fell. | ||
| So they've actually existed throughout town. | ||
| What we have here is possibly a slight indication of some bigotry creeping into the proceedings. | ||
| Now, it's entirely possible that this guy who he's talking to is just a weirdo who has some ahistorical views and some revisionism, but generally, when you hear someone in the present day talking about the Ottoman Empire and how it never really went away, you're listening to a rank Islamophobe. | ||
| The Ottoman Empire is one of the largest historical examples of a widespread Islamic kingdom, and it existed until relatively recently, only being dissolved after World War I. In modern anti-Muslim circles, it's not super uncommon to hear references to the Ottoman Empire as what the Muslims want to recreate. | ||
| I know that I've definitely heard people express the idea that the empire never fell and is actually still alive today in what they would describe as expansionist Islam. | ||
| All this really serves to reinforce the perception that the turmoil in the world is easily understandable as a civilization-level conflict between Christians and Muslims. | ||
| It could just be that this dude is writing some sort of benign historical fiction. | ||
| I accept that's entirely a possibility. | ||
| But little things like that kind of hint at a possible underbelly of the sorts of things that you could accidentally give a platform to when you have literally zero editorial oversight or quality control in what you put out and what you allow these supposed time travelers to disseminate. | ||
| You could accidentally give a platform to somebody who has some like Crypto fucked up messages. | ||
| Yeah, well, I mean, I imagine that it is at the very least statistically representative, the percentage or the ratio of out-and-out bigots versus non in the space weirdo community as it is for the population at large. | ||
| Maybe higher. | ||
| If not higher, but at least, you know? | ||
| So, I say that puts us at what? | ||
| Like, at least a 30% chance that... | ||
| Any one of those space weirdos has some weird racial... | ||
| Probably way higher than that. | ||
| It's possible. | ||
| I don't want to try and give a specific number, because I think that's where we get into trouble. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course. | |
| But yeah, there is some segment of the population, of this population, that... | ||
| Is just sublimating their regular racism through space racism. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And when you have no... | ||
| When you have no standards of what you put forward because you want everybody to be able to come forward with your message, you kind of got to expect that some people might subconsciously or even consciously try to Trojan horse those sorts of messages through. | ||
| And if you're doing no oversight, no editorial process, nothing, you'll end up just airing shit that could possibly be space-white nationalism. | ||
| Yeah, easily. | ||
| So now we get to another, the plot sort of shifts, and we get to a very familiar topic in paranormal talk, and that is, of course, the Mandela effect. | ||
| Okay, just swapping the subjects a little bit, but the Mandela effect, that's something that you've covered on your channel as well, and that's got a lot of, that Mandela effect, a lot of people are talking about that on YouTube right now. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Just explain to us what that is, just to begin with. | ||
| Yeah, the Mandela Effect is where you think something happened in a certain way, and it's more so where a mass of people think something happened in a certain way. | ||
| For example, at the end of the Star Wars movie, Darth Vader says, Luke, I am your father. | ||
| It turns out he never said that at all, and you can look this up on YouTube. | ||
| I forget what he actually said. | ||
| But it wasn't that. | ||
| And there's been a variety of examples within mainstream media. | ||
| Did you know that, Jordan? | ||
| What? | ||
| Freak out. | ||
| He doesn't say, Luke, I'm your father. | ||
| Uh, okay. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| Most disappointing freak out ever. | ||
| So this is one of the lamest examples ever of the Mandela Effect. | ||
| But it's one that everybody trots out because almost everybody has seen Star Wars. | ||
| Search your feelings. | ||
| You know it to be true. | ||
| I am your father. | ||
| No! | ||
|
unidentified
|
No! | |
| Is that it? | ||
| No. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| People tend to remember the line at the end of Empire Strikes Back as, Luke, I am your father. | ||
| But in reality, it's not quite the line. | ||
| In the movie, Luke says to Darth Vader, you killed my father. | ||
| And Vader replies, no, I am your father. | ||
| It's really easy to see how this could be quoted as, Luke, I'm your father, to the point where people just accept that that's how the line must have been. | ||
| Because, like, discussing it out of context, or if you're quoting the movie... | ||
| No, I am your father? | ||
| It sounds way worse than Luke, I am your father. | ||
| He never said, play it again, Sam. | ||
| Let's move on, you know. | ||
| That's how it is with pretty much all of these things that get cited as examples of the Mandela effect. | ||
| They're all just things that are slightly off from what actually happened, because what actually happened is slightly off from what your brain would naturally assume. | ||
| The Baron Stain Bears is remembered as Baron Stein Bears, because Stein is a much more common suffix in last names than Stain. | ||
| Stain is just not as common at all. | ||
| So people are like, oh, Berenstein. | ||
| Or Berenstein. | ||
| And they don't have any specific stains or anything that would make you go like, oh, stain. | ||
| That would absolutely trigger in your mind the mnemonic or whatever, the associative device. | ||
| Or in reverse, if they were Berenstein bears, but they were covered in stains, then you'd remember them as the Berenstein bears. | ||
| It would be very confusing. | ||
| I've looked at a bunch of examples of the Mandela Effect, and pretty much all of them are somewhere in between completely uninteresting and, ah, that's weird. | ||
| Mandela Effect shit is good and fun, and honestly, I think it's kind of neat to look at it as like a cataloging of little ways that we misincorporate information into our collective cultural memory. | ||
| Almost like it's a database of times that we veered off from integrating precise information, preferring simplicity. | ||
| But it becomes really serious bullshit when you take it seriously. | ||
| And try to present it as a paranormal phenomenon, which pretty much all of these grifters do. | ||
| And it makes sense why they would. | ||
| The Mandela Effect, at its core, is pointing out errors in cultural memory. | ||
| And by definition, we're all engaged with cultural memory. | ||
| Everyone who's part of the culture takes on some relation to it. | ||
| We draw information from it. | ||
| If we didn't, we'd have a much more difficult time relating to each other, without shared references and touchstones. | ||
| And easy ways to make metaphors. | ||
| Because we're all interacting with this collective memory, pointing out times when it was just slightly off is compelling to a large number of people. | ||
| Almost every single person you'll ever ask about the Berenstain Bears will think it's spelled Stein because that's the way our culture ended up remembering the name. | ||
| Thus, whenever you point out these little quirks, you will get a response out of most people. | ||
| Ranging from, that's weird, to, no fucking way, man! | ||
| And it's that response that you need in order to inject a kernel of doubt in them that reality is not what it seems to be. | ||
| You can take that visceral experience of learning that Darth Vader doesn't say, Luke, I am your father, and use it to say, hey, you were certain that he said, Luke, I am your father, but he didn't. | ||
| So what else are you certain of that you might be wrong about? | ||
| In this way, the Mandela Effect shit is a really useful entry point for paranormal grifters to use to open their audience's mind to the possibility that other complete horse shit they're trying to sell them might actually be real, even though you're certain that it's not. | ||
| That's why it's such a mainstay of these weirdo grifters' content. | ||
| So I'm not surprised to see both Kevin and ApexTV are interested in the subject. | ||
| Yeah, of course. | ||
| It's near universal. | ||
| And I'm not saying that everybody who talks about it is by default. | ||
| Engaging in some kind of grift. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| Because some people are just like, oh, this is a strange thing. | ||
| Isn't it a fun? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You see it. | ||
| But the people who are kind of really into it, those are the people you've got to really look out for. | ||
| It is kind of an interesting collective neurological exploit. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, it's like that video where you see all those people bouncing the ball around and then there's the gorilla going back through it. | ||
| And you're like, why is it that my brain just cuts that out? | ||
| Why do I miss that? | ||
| And the same thing is true of this on a macro scale of just like... | ||
| I'm rewriting reality for my comfort, and then whenever you show me that it's not, my discomfort expresses itself in a weird way. | ||
| Attention and memory aren't things that catalog things directly and concretely. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And that is true on an individual level, and it's true on a cultural level. | ||
| Eyewitness testimony should not be allowed! | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And that's most of what explains this phenomenon. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And so... | ||
| When you look at it on that level, whether or not, I do think it's intentionally deployed and weaponized in some ways by these folks. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| I do think that it is a recruiting kind of strategy. | ||
| Yeah, I think it's weaponized in the same way that so many games are optimized to maintain your attention and keep giving you that... | ||
| You know, like when you're playing Candy Crush or something like that, they have psychologists who have spent their careers figuring out ways to make you spend 20 cents every time you need to press a button. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| They give you that feedback loop, and the same thing is true of this. | ||
| If there's an exploit... | ||
| To make them, to earn people money, they're going to find it. | ||
| Well, and there's so many other things, too. | ||
| I mean, there's parallels of, like, stuff in Alex Jones's and the right-wing media's strategies, too. | ||
| Like, with him, you can get a lot of people to, like, freak out by being like, hey, did you know the Federal Reserve is private? | ||
| Why is it called federal, then? | ||
| All those kinds of entry-level meme-type things, they serve to open you up to the grander and larger, less believable conclusions that they want to walk you towards. | ||
| And you can go just a little bit at a time. | ||
| Oh, I was certain it was spelled Berenstain Bears. | ||
| Well, if my memory is wrong about that... | ||
| What else could it be wrong about? | ||
| It could be anything. | ||
| And that's one of the things that I actually think is good and bad about this. | ||
| It is really interesting to think about these things, and it's fun to talk about the ways in which our memories glitch to a certain extent. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| That's my feeling on it. | ||
| But I just think you have to have a more critical stance if you want to talk about it. | ||
| Honestly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You can't talk about it. | ||
| It's like, oh, it's probably parallel dimensions shifting. | ||
| It could be. | ||
| That is a sign that you're probably full of shit. | ||
| Kazam! | ||
| So in this next clip, we talk a little bit more about this here. | ||
| This is your Mandela effect. | ||
| And I think they call it the Mandela effect because they heard that Nelson Mandela had died previous to when he actually... | ||
| Previous to when he actually did. | ||
| And a mass of people remembering he died on a certain day when he didn't. | ||
| And he actually lived for a while past then. | ||
| And the interesting thing is that if you go on Google and you go on Google Trends and search Nelson Mandela death, you can see a big spike. | ||
| I forget when it was, but it was way previous to his actual death. | ||
| It wasn't as big as the spike, obviously, to when he actually died. | ||
| But the spike was pretty sizable, and it makes you wonder why that happened. | ||
| Makes you wonder why. | ||
| So I consulted the Google Trends, and what you see is a relatively flat graph, with a giant spike in December 2013, which makes sense, since Nelson Mandela died on December 5th, 2013. | ||
| Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. | ||
| What makes slightly less sense is that there's another spike, smaller than the December one, but it's still very noticeable, in June. | ||
| Now, Apex TV was saying it was a long time before he died. | ||
| It's a couple months. | ||
| So he's fudging things a little bit here. | ||
| But there is still another spike. | ||
| In cases like this, it's important to consider possible explanations for this before jumping to conclusions and thinking this means that Nelson Mandela died in June and then again in December or whatever this dude is trying to imply. | ||
| Possibly alternate timelines or whatever. | ||
| Google Trends only reflects what people are searching for. | ||
| So, if they were searching for Nelson Mandela death, it's entirely possible they were searching for those terms in order to find out if he was dead. | ||
| In 2013, Nelson Mandela was 94 years old, and in early June, he was admitted to a hospital in Pretoria with a recurrence of a chronic lung infection. | ||
| The doctors initially put his condition as serious but stable, but after a few weeks in the hospital, he was downgraded to being in critical condition. | ||
| South African citizens held vigils outside the hospital, and it became a really big deal with the media, questioning if President Obama was going to be able to visit him while he was receiving treatment. | ||
| The South African press was reporting urgent meetings to, quote, discuss delicate matters, which many interpreted as signs of them preparing for his imminent passing. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| Outside of December, when he actually died, June 2013 was the month when the most speculation about his passing was done in the press. | ||
| Google Trends reflect an increase of search traffic for his death at a time that makes complete sense, unless you're willfully obtuse and want to mislead people. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| He was admitted to a hospital with a serious condition in June 2013. | ||
| That's when that other spike is. | ||
| And then he died fairly recently after that. | ||
| Yeah, a couple months later. | ||
| There was a big push in the news for it. | ||
| And then, unlike... | ||
| And then it just has to die down because he's still alive. | ||
| So that big push is everybody thinking, oh, he's gonna die soon. | ||
| He's gonna die soon. | ||
| And people writing articles about the possibility that he'll pass and talking about his legacy. | ||
| There's a lot of media attention on it when... | ||
| A heroic figure is 94 years old and is hospitalized in serious but stable condition. | ||
| You've got to recognize that serious but stable at 94 is bad. | ||
| That's still bad. | ||
| Serious but stable at 94 is like, we're hoping for 94 and a half! | ||
| Serious but stable at 94 is not a good prognosis. | ||
| You still could die at any point. | ||
| So people searching for Nelson Mandela death makes total sense. | ||
| Trying to use that as some kind of a piece of information that helps the Mandela effect look real is just ludicrous. | ||
| Yeah, that's wild. | ||
| It's irresponsible. | ||
| I never understood why. | ||
| I understood that it was called the Mandela effect because people thought he died before he did. | ||
| I got that. | ||
| I never understood that this was why. | ||
| I honestly don't even think that's why. | ||
| That's not good. | ||
| Because from my memory, I don't remember if this is exactly right, but it's my sense that people thought that he died while he was in prison. | ||
|
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Oh! | |
| It wouldn't have been a couple months before. | ||
| Really? | ||
| People thought he died while he was in prison? | ||
| Which doesn't make sense because he became president of South Africa after he was in prison. | ||
| None of it makes sense. | ||
| I didn't realize that. | ||
| Never mind. | ||
| When I last looked into it, it was my feeling that people were theorizing that he had died years before. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| This couple months before on the Google Trends, which is what he's talking about. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| That's not even in line with the theories that people have. | ||
| That's wild. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I mean, it could be that there was some dissident leader that died in prison around that. | ||
| Some ANC figure? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I don't care to fully try and figure out what these people are misremembering. | ||
| But they're misremembering something. | ||
|
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Maybe they just wished that Mandela was dead. | |
| Don't apply such universal negative. | ||
| So at this point, Kevin, I think, is doing a terrible job. | ||
| Rightfully, he starts to get a little bit self-conscious that people will think this is a softball interview. | ||
| Right, because he's shit at it. | ||
| Look, you know, some of my friends, if they were watching this, would be like, Kev, you're being so soft on this interview. | ||
| It's like, it's all... | ||
| Come on, Kev, you know, ask some really difficult questions or, you know... | ||
| But the thing is, well... | ||
| It's not my platform to do that, do you know what I mean? | ||
|
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What? | |
| You know, I mean... | ||
| This is what you're doing, and whichever way this works out in the future, it's a fun interview right now. | ||
| Do I totally believe it? | ||
| Well, no, but then again, I've come across some crazy stuff, so I can't say no totally yet. | ||
| Do you know what I mean? | ||
| It's like, I've had a UFO experience. | ||
| I can't prove that to anybody, right? | ||
| Yep, me too. | ||
| Oh, you've had an experience, have you? | ||
| So, this is just sloppy. | ||
| This dude is a fucking psychopath. | ||
| That is the craziest shit. | ||
| You know, it's not my channel to do that. | ||
| No, it's your channel. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's yours. | ||
| You translate that to, I don't feel like being critical right now. | ||
| It's a bit of work, and you have a YouTube channel where you have demonstrated the capability of getting millions of hits. | ||
| Now maybe... | ||
| That's in sunnier days and maybe you're not averaging a million hits or whatever. | ||
| I mean, if you go to their channel, they still have over a million subscribers. | ||
| So he recognizes that there is a possibility of some kind of advancement for his game. | ||
| And that goes away if he starts being hypercritical to him. | ||
| You know what's crazy? | ||
| I think I'm channeling somebody who was a time traveler right now. | ||
| Hold on. | ||
| Hold on. | ||
|
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Mermaid, mermaid, mermaid, mermaid, mermaid. | |
| It turns out it was the mermaid in that bit. | ||
| It is his channel to do whatever he wishes to do with it. | ||
| And it's clear what he wants to do with it is not be critical. | ||
| It's not take any position that's of like, what the fuck are you talking about? | ||
| Hey, I watched this video. | ||
| Is this for children? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Are you trying to scam views off kids? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Oh! | ||
| It does feel like the type of interview where those two dudes are like, we're both scamming. | ||
| You're making money, I'm making money. | ||
| Hey, you talk to weirdos, I talk to weirdos. | ||
| You stealing people's money? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Ha ha, gotcha! | ||
| You run a psychic hotline? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that impression does not, it's not helped, you know, you don't help disabuse yourself of that perception in this next clip. | ||
| And I know Facebook is a growing market for content creators. | ||
| For example, I posted a video on there. | ||
| Our first interview with Noah, I posted on there. | ||
| With no promotion whatsoever, that video somehow got 6 million views within the first week, just on Facebook. | ||
| So I've been working a lot trying to... | ||
| I've never asked anybody... | ||
| From farther into the future, if YouTube will still exist. | ||
| Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? | ||
| You know, just putting the videos onto Facebook, just what they do, and I should be experimenting with that a bit more, actually. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, for sure. | ||
| Yeah, because it's, yeah, it's, but obviously this, I don't know if there's a way to monetize them. | ||
| I think there is for some... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't know how that works. | ||
| You have to have an insane amount of followers or likes on your Facebook page to be able to monetize it, and they only choose certain people. | ||
| Yeah, that's how it works, right? | ||
| Yeah, that's the main attraction to YouTube, and I obviously like YouTube way more than Facebook. | ||
| I think it's a way better platform overall. | ||
| Oh, do you? | ||
| They're having a little bit of a business meeting about... | ||
| I am... | ||
| Bananas crazy. | ||
| You can't do this. | ||
| You can't do this. | ||
| I don't even know what this is. | ||
| It's showing the cards a little. | ||
| This is ridiculous. | ||
| Oh, you do put those videos out on Facebook. | ||
| I should mess with that. | ||
| That does seem like a really good way to drive traffic. | ||
| This is like two spiritualist fortune tellers in the 1920s in a goddamn theater telling everybody exactly how they fucking lie to them. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, without admitting we're lying. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Yeah, here's how you game social media a little bit. | ||
| Hey, this stuff works. | ||
| Oh, and if you're going to do that, people watch them on mute because they auto-scroll by them. | ||
|
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| You gotta have subtitles on there. | ||
|
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Good stuff. | |
| Oh, man. | ||
| It's weird when you have, like, an hour to talk to a guy who knows time travelers, and a significant amount of the time is spent, like, talking shop about just being a YouTube video maker. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna blow this out of proportion, because this is really true. | ||
| If there was a real time traveler, the world would fucking explode. | ||
| It is over. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And it seems like it's a better use of time to discuss that stuff over how to use social media. | ||
| It kind of feels like that is a tacit admission that what this guy does is buzz, as opposed to content. | ||
| Yeah, so I know this guy who understands the collapse of five-dimensional space-time, and it's like, how do I monetize this on Facebook? | ||
| And again, That's fine for him if that's what the game is. | ||
| I feel like Kevin Moore would like to pretend that that's not what his game is. | ||
| But at the same time, it takes on a different feeling if it's not just a guy who's like, hey, here's a video some guy sent me claiming to be a time traveler. | ||
| If he's involved in it, it takes on a different feeling for me. | ||
| I'm not sure why. | ||
| I think that's important, and this next clip kind of bummed me out. | ||
| I deeply feel sorry for Noah because we did a lie detector test with him, and the lie detector said he was telling the truth when he said he was a time traveler, and if he's telling the truth or not, it's clear he's very depressed, he's in a lot of stress, and I feel really bad for... | ||
| Well, they're leaving their families behind, aren't they? | ||
| Their families, their loved ones. | ||
| No, you're not taking it serious. | ||
| He's taking it serious. | ||
| He is. | ||
| He took it serious. | ||
| See, at this point, though, they haven't come out with the video saying that this guy's lying. | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
|
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That's in the future from when this video is recorded. | |
| He's saying that this guy misses his family from the future. | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| This guy, Apex, is coming around and being like, well, if he's telling the truth, you know... | ||
| Whatever. | ||
| And if he's lying, no matter what, I feel bad for him or whatever. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| And then Kevin is the one who comes in with the assuming that it's real. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're separated from their families. | ||
| Yeah, well, I mean, you can't handle that. | ||
| Like, I saw a time cop. | ||
| JCVD didn't love being away from his love or whatever it was. | ||
| This is not a critical look at anything, man. | ||
| Like, this is Kevin pretending to be doing an interview, but honestly just kind of hoping for some easy clicks that he doesn't have to work too hard for. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| That's what's going on. | ||
| Yeah, this is lazy. | ||
| Now, it's also interesting that Apex feels sad for Noah. | ||
| Even if Noah is running a scam on him and making this whole thing up, it's clear to Apex that he's in a tough spot. | ||
| What an understanding person. | ||
| You know, that's the kind of thing you hear, and you just can't help but think that he wouldn't steer you wrong. | ||
| I just see him in such a bad spot, and if he's telling me the truth or not, I still want to exploit his story. | ||
| So, you remember how I told you earlier that this guy Jason came out and admitted that he was lying and pretending to be Noah, the time traveler? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And how that video was put out by Apex TV, but also kind of felt weird? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's a reason. | ||
| Why is that? | ||
| That video where Apex announces that Jason had lied to them and made it all up was uploaded on July 23rd, 2019. | ||
| Oh, when Mandela died. | ||
| And the primary function of it seemed to be to put all the responsibility for this scam on this guy Jason. | ||
| He was the one who made the stuff up, and Apex was just passing along his information for you to decide what you think about it. | ||
| Oh my god, is somebody getting sued? | ||
| I mean, really, when you get right down to it, the fact that they put out that video is clear proof that Apex is willing to own up to its own mistakes, and that it will even expose themselves if they've stepped in it. | ||
| In a completely bizarre and almost certainly unrelated coincidence, 10 days prior, on July 13th, Another person named Dennis Bell had posted a video where he revealed that he was Noah, and he was sick of playing the character. | ||
| No fucking shit! | ||
| He was scared that people would discern his identity and dox him, so he decided the best way to minimize the threat was to address the issue head-on. | ||
| According to Dennis, when he was 14 years old, he was a kid making comedy YouTube videos, posting them pretty much daily. | ||
| Through his channel, he ended up meeting Apex TV, who enlisted him to play the role of Noah. | ||
| He claimed that Apex pressured him to sign a non-disclosure agreement, which is kind of funny to think about. | ||
| Even if they ever took him to court to enforce the NDA, the obvious question of why they have an NDA active with a 14-year-old who looks a lot like their time traveler, that would probably come up. | ||
| It's really only useful as an intimidation tactic against a 14, 15-year-old. | ||
| It's ridiculous. | ||
| Dennis alleges that he was paid by Apex, and that when they recorded the videos, everyone was just laughing because of how stupid it was. | ||
| It would be really easy to just take this as a guy who's trying to get into the scam and involve himself, except that his video includes clips of the original Apex TV videos unedited. | ||
| Ooh, see, now that one is really tough to talk your way around. | ||
| Without his face blurred. | ||
| Ooh, that one's really tough. | ||
| Does he look exactly like Jason and talk and sound exactly like Jason? | ||
| The video of Jason saying that he was Noah does not look anything like the unedited versions that Dennis put out, but it does look a lot like him. | ||
| He includes clips that Apex didn't release initially that definitely indicate coaching. | ||
| One of the more damning ones is probably a clip of Noah about to shake hands with his older self that begins with an off-camera voice saying, action. | ||
| It's kind of impossible for me to say whether or not this Dennis guy is 100% the kid in the original videos, but they look very, very similar and have the same voice and mannerisms. | ||
| Personally, it looks to me a lot like this kid's telling the truth, and those receipts are pretty tough to explain otherwise. | ||
| Although, you could say, okay, he just shot recreation videos of it. | ||
| I find that very unlikely. | ||
| Yeah, I'm going to go with no on that one. | ||
| But here's the thing. | ||
| I'm still not sure I care about this. | ||
| Is there a big difference between soliciting independently created videos where people are pretending to be time travelers and creating videos yourself where people pretend to be time travelers? | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| Exposure? | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| In the first case, you're just posting bullshit and profiting off it and in the process probably enabling some mentally unwell people down this road, encouraging them, validating this. | ||
| In the second case, you're perpetuating a fraud, but it's also kind of in the realm of performance art on some level. | ||
| I'm fine with it. | ||
| I guess. | ||
| I don't really know. | ||
| I think the big issue is presentation. | ||
| The fact that the channel portrays itself as just reporting on things, you know, like, hey, we're just passing this along, while they're, in fact, apparently orchestrating those things themselves, I think that's intrinsically dishonest and manipulative. | ||
| It would be kind of like if we created a right-wing talk show host to say things that we wanted them to say so that we could cover them. | ||
| It's kind of a betrayal of the format of whatever you're doing. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, I feel like this is an ethical question about what is already demonstrably untrue and inethical, I think, from a very fundamental standpoint. | ||
| It's a little bit of a gray area case to me in some ways. | ||
| I know, but it seems like there's some... | ||
| It seems like what we're really dealing with is an inethical actor in a game of poor ethics. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, where it's like, you're too far in... | ||
| I'm fine with your inethical way? | ||
| I would say it's an unethical actor inside a game absent ethics. | ||
| That's a good way of putting it. | ||
| Fucking around online or whatever like this isn't intrinsically inethical. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| Or unethical. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| It just is what it is. | ||
| You're not doing it right. | ||
| You're making me feel bad. | ||
| That's what it is. | ||
| I think that there are added considerations when the appearance is there that you're actually running a hoax as opposed to it just being bullshit. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't know what the intrinsic difference is, but I'm certain it's there. | ||
| I know I feel it. | ||
| Yeah, I don't think Immanuel Kant ever had to deal with this exact question. | ||
| And so this guy, Dennis, he comes out with these claims that he's making and the video including the footage of him. | ||
| Some of them are, like you could say, are recreations. | ||
| A video of him standing in front of a line of trees saying something. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure, sure. | ||
| Where it shows the pixelated version and then the unpixelated version. | ||
| You could say, oh, maybe you just went out and shot that. | ||
| The one that's really tough to get around is the one of him meeting his older self. | ||
| Because that matches the video that Apex TV put out. | ||
| And he put out the one with his face unblurred. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
|
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It definitely looks exactly like... | |
| It's tough to get around. | ||
| And so he puts this out. | ||
| And then just a little bit later... | ||
| Apex puts out their version with a guy claiming, I'm Noah, I was lying. | ||
| I suspect that's why they put that video out. | ||
| Yeah, that would make the most sense. | ||
| It feels like damage control, and it probably was. | ||
| Because it's not that big a deal to the presentation of the channel if one of their sources turns out to be a liar. | ||
| No one's perfect, and we're all going to fall for something at one point in our lives. | ||
| It's a much bigger deal for their presentation if the impression is that they're just creating bullshit on their own and passing it off as if it could be real. | ||
| It's the difference between naivete and trusting people and a hoax. | ||
| Being exposed as naive might hurt your reputation a little, but being a hoaxer really destroys any possibility of future credibility. | ||
| But again, I don't care that much. | ||
| But the idea that a 14, 15-year-old was being put in this kind of a position makes me pretty uncomfortable. | ||
| Yeah, how old is he now? | ||
| When he made that video, so I guess that's current, he's 16. Oh, man. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
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|
Ugh. | |
| This still kind of falls under the heading of, like, this is what lame grifters on YouTube do. | ||
|
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|
Yeah. | |
| It's kind of the Wild West. | ||
| Yeah, it's a good game. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's not that interesting to me, big picture. | ||
| It is interesting to me that Kevin Moore is interested in talking to this guy and even giving an ounce of, this could be real to him. | ||
| That indicates a complete inability or unwillingness to critically engage with the subject he's covering. | ||
| And, in fairness to him, the stuff about Noah being fake hadn't come out by the time he made this video that we're listening to. | ||
| But the stuff about the Swedish insurance commercial had. | ||
| There were plenty of red flags that would suggest that maybe this operation isn't on the up and up, even by the almost non-existent standards of the paranormal YouTube community. | ||
| Kevin Moore is not a critical voice. | ||
| There's something else going on with his beef with Carrie and Mark Richards. | ||
| I'm not sure what it is, but I need to figure it out. | ||
| I don't know if we'll ever be able to get to the bottom of it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But there's something rotten in Denmark, Jordan. | ||
| Based on Sweden. | ||
| Based on... | ||
| No, there's nothing rotten there. | ||
| It's an insurance commercial, and it's fantastic. | ||
| I think most insurance things are... | ||
| If there's one thing that we've learned, or I've learned from listening to him, because we've listened to a couple of his videos now, as long as he has a personal connection, he will let anything go. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| And I mean that, or better yet... | ||
| As long as he doesn't have a personal vendetta. | ||
| Everything can go. | ||
| Or if he has a reason to think that this could be an avenue for greater exposure. | ||
| This behavior that he's doing here, he doesn't know this guy. | ||
| He's not friends with him. | ||
| What it comes down to for me is, I think that this episode... | ||
| Like, when I said that it's beneath us, I think it's because this Apex TV shit is super lame and real whack. | ||
| And the revelation of it being fake, first of all, is assumed. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, of course. | ||
| And the fact that it's a hoax is like, well, I kind of expect that. | ||
| And I don't know how much more unethical it makes it than what it originally is. | ||
| I think the second hoax video is, I think the hoax taking over the truth. | ||
| That's the part that I think is genuinely, morally... | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's when we've crossed the gray area into you guys know what you're doing and you're trying to steal this story. | ||
| You're creating a hoax to combat your own hoax. | ||
| I definitely see that cover-up is worse than the crime situation. | ||
| Yeah, there's definite ill intent behind that one. | ||
| And I definitely don't think that it's not worth considering. | ||
| The idea that if this Dennis guy is telling the truth... | ||
| Then what's going on is really inappropriate behavior with a minor. | ||
| Oh, absolutely. | ||
| He talks about how uncomfortable he was as it went along and how he started to get harassing messages when people started to try and figure out who he was. | ||
| And so putting a minor in that kind of a situation is probably legally actionable. | ||
| I don't know if it is, but it's definitely not something that someone with good intent would do. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| Well, I mean, if you want... | ||
| It's a line past which you should not venture. | ||
| What kind of guardianship do we have going on there? | ||
| Did the guardians sign shit? | ||
| He does say that they asked his parents to sign an NDA as well. | ||
| Ooh, that's trouble then. | ||
| But you've got to assume that if you're a parent, even if you're a decent parent, and like, alright, I'm going to be in a YouTube video, it's acting, you might not have any alarm bells. | ||
| Man, technology just moved too fast for parents. | ||
| You have no fucking clue. | ||
| I want to center this. | ||
| That's such a like, man, when I was a kid, all you had to worry about a 14-year-old boy doing was jerking off in the bathroom. | ||
| And now? | ||
| Now he's creating space hoaxes? | ||
| Time travel hoaxes? | ||
| What? | ||
| I want to refocus this because all that stuff is nebulous and I don't care. | ||
| Apex TV is not something that I care to be on my radar. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Except as a way with which we can see Kevin Moore more clearly. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| And that's really what I'm interested in. | ||
| I'm interested in this clear bullshit. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Being, like, entertained and like, oh. | ||
| But it's not only that, even. | ||
| Like, Kevin Moore... | ||
| In much the same way Richard Belzer was not a passive actor on the day of the Boston bombing when he was a guest on Alex Jones' show, he was a participant. | ||
| Kevin Moore is trying to become a little bit of a participant in this charade. | ||
| What if you stumbled across something here that's not what it seems to be, but it's something else? | ||
| Yeah, that... | ||
| I don't know, like... | ||
| What would you say, for example? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Well, it's... | ||
| What's that movie where people become the host of something else? | ||
| Name 15 of them? | ||
| The Guest? | ||
| Is that the movie I'm thinking of? | ||
| No, probably not. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I haven't seen that one. | ||
| Okay, it's probably not that one. | ||
| But the idea that people are taken over by something else. | ||
| I had Elijah Wood in it. | ||
| For other reasons. | ||
| You know, that may just, you know, and again, as you say... | ||
| It's possible, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it's possible, right? | ||
| I mean, I'm trying to, you know, yeah, make sense of this. | ||
| I can make sense of it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He's trying to imply, hey, maybe it's demons. | ||
| Maybe it's demons. | ||
| Maybe it's some other dimensional creature. | ||
| Could be space little things that go in your ear. | ||
| Josh Hart and I was involved. | ||
| I guess meth kills him. | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Don't try and yes and this shit. | |
| If you care about the credibility of your community, your space weirdo community, you want to be like, hey, us channeling people, we demand to be taken seriously. | ||
| It kind of behooves you to not be like, oh, maybe these folks are demons. | ||
| I think people are making this up. | ||
| No, it's very much like, in its own way, it's like if you're... | ||
| Doing an interview on fucking Fox News and you answer one of the questions and then you return it back with them and it's like, oh, well, how do you think it's possible for us to do this? | ||
| And then he just comes up with a... | ||
| The anchor comes up with a reason that your shit makes sense for you? | ||
| That's you fucking everybody over. | ||
| If you're participating... | ||
| You're escalating. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And enabling. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| And deceiving. | ||
| In this next clip, Apex is talking about how people think that they're involved with the people that they feature in their videos, which they very well may be. | ||
| Apparently, that's a criticism that they get, and a theory that some people have. | ||
| I can't imagine why. | ||
| And so he addresses that. | ||
| And again, Kevin is enabling him. | ||
| There's been a lot of misunderstanding, though, people thinking we're in on these videos. | ||
| I'm planning on making a video soon explaining to people because I don't think people get that we're not affiliated with these people that we're interviewing. | ||
| And there's been a lot of people who don't really get it. | ||
| And I'm going to make a video soon talking about how we don't know these people and just explain things, put things in more context. | ||
| Well, you can see how people would think that because they'll think, well, these are friends of yours. | ||
| These are people or actors from other countries that you've paid. | ||
| You know, there's makeup involved and everything else, and you're not revealing your... | ||
| You can understand why they're thinking like that, some people, but... | ||
| Well, I guess you're already thinking along those lines of putting something out there. | ||
| That's real wishy-washy. | ||
| I feel like I'm getting swift-boated right now. | ||
| That's real wishy-washy. | ||
| You can see how somebody would think that, but... | ||
| I think you've already got that one under control. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's such a I got nothing. | |
| I don't have the nerve to say it's clear that's what's... | ||
| You're full of shit. | ||
| The fact that you... | ||
| Like, he does bring this up a couple times in this interview. | ||
| It does seem to indicate he's singularly focused with pushing back on that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| In the same way that when they put out their video with Jason revealing that he had lied to them, it was also to serve the purpose of, like, we were the ones who were lied to. | ||
| We had nothing to do with it. | ||
| It seems like... | ||
| You push back on that. | ||
| Maybe it's because you're self-conscious about the fact that you're doing that. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| That's kind of the vibe I get. | ||
| Yeah, it's part of your mystique that you're just passing these on. | ||
| And also part of your layer of protection from criticism. | ||
| The moment you're involved in making them, it's like, oh, all right, guys, get out of here. | ||
| Get the fuck out. | ||
| They're much easier to write off. | ||
| It's like if we actually had Stanley Kubrick filming the moon landing. | ||
| Then we're all like, okay, get the fuck out of here, U.S. government. | ||
| We don't need any of your shit now. | ||
| We know you're all lying. | ||
| I don't know if it extends that far, but I'm going to go with it, dude. | ||
| So we get to the end of this interview, and we get to see that Kevin Moore... | ||
| Great judge of character. | ||
| You seem to be a really nice guy, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thanks, man. | |
| Yeah, you too. | ||
| You're just easy to speak to. | ||
| You've got it all together, and it's fun, right? | ||
| You're having a lot of fun right now. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| I appreciate that. | ||
| And this is pretty much, I would say, from what I know, and I know very little, that this is probably your full-time job keeping this going. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Making a lot of those bucks. | ||
| So, I mean, that's cool. | ||
| I don't begrudge anyone making a living doing what they love to do. | ||
| Having a lot of fun, but it's just lying. | ||
| Are people listening to... | ||
| Are people watching this video? | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| I mean, people actually watch that video? | ||
| The video of Kevin interviewing this guy? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah! | |
| I mean, not as many as watch the Time Traveler video, certainly. | ||
| Right, but I mean, how could anybody watch that that wasn't like... | ||
| Trying to find out more about SEO and fucking viewers. | ||
| I don't know how this is a non-business video at all. | ||
| This gets back to my point that I made at the beginning of this. | ||
| Which is like, I don't really care to attack this online immersive entertainment kind of thing too much. | ||
| Because I'm not fully convinced that most of the people taking in the time traveler videos actually think that it's real. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| So I'm not super interested in... | ||
| Like, the idea that someone would watch this video of Kevin talking to him and it somehow, like, debunks the time traveler videos because, like, hey, you guys keep talking about social media engagement a lot. | ||
| This is weird. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| I don't feel like that's, like, even a concern. | ||
| It's more about Kevin. | ||
| No, I agree. | ||
| I mean more, like, I don't understand. | ||
| Kevin has no idea what an entertaining interview is. | ||
| No. | ||
| Like, no clue. | ||
| Which might explain his lack of social media engagement. | ||
| An entertaining interview would be much more focused on hard-hitting questions about these time travelers. | ||
| Or even less hard-hitting questions about these time travelers. | ||
| More wild speculations and enjoying and having a fun time. | ||
| Like, on Project Camelot, Carrie's great skill as an interviewer is being wild along with everybody else. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And getting crazy. | ||
| To an extent. | ||
| Not like being like, okay, Eddie Page, what's your hit count on an average Twitter post? | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| That would certainly be less entertaining. | ||
| That would be less entertaining. | ||
| Which isn't to say that Carrie is very entertaining. | ||
| I'm not going to say that. | ||
| So, yeah, I don't know. | ||
| I'm going to skip this clip because it's kind of sad. | ||
| It's just Kevin talking about how Apex TV has a team. | ||
| How can you trust them? | ||
| I'm like, I have to work alone. | ||
| I really hate Kevin. | ||
| I really hate him. | ||
| Like, on a deep and abiding level, he's a piece of shit. | ||
| I don't... | ||
| Yeah, I mean, there is a piece of shitness to him. | ||
| There is a real slipperiness. | ||
| But I also think that there is just a, he's not very good at this. | ||
| He wants to do this. | ||
| And I think he's dumb. | ||
| I think that there are those elements of it. | ||
| And a lot of that could explain some of the stuff that comes off as slipperiness. | ||
| There could be a lot less evil intention that could be explained by incompetence. | ||
| And kind of being gullible and dumb. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure, sure. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think, though, even with those qualities, it's very clear there's also a naked capitalist behind all of this. | ||
| Skousen? | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| So, yeah, one last clip here, and it's just how they sort of end things. | ||
| But listen, I really appreciate what you're doing. | ||
| I think it's fascinating stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And, you know, good on you for doing it. | |
| That's all I'll say. | ||
| Good on you. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I appreciate what you're doing. | ||
| Good on you. | ||
| Also, I just hate hearing him fucking talking and everything is like... | ||
| Yeah, there's a lot of that. | ||
| Good. | ||
| Well, I mean, that's part of not preparing at all. | ||
| I don't have any questions. | ||
| That's fair. | ||
| I would say that that is a terrible showing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The idea that he ends it with, like, I appreciate what you're doing. | ||
| Good on you for what you're doing. | ||
| Good on you. | ||
| He said in this... | ||
| Fucking interview that he talked to a guy who claimed to be a mermaid. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And that some of the people who are time travelers are clearly lying to him. | ||
| Good on you. | ||
| I don't understand. | ||
| If you want to just be like, we are doing a large scale immersive entertainment thing where people lie to us and then we pass it off as truth. | ||
| I'm not all that mad at that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But Kevin's trying to not play that game. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| So he shouldn't be taking somebody who appears to be doing LARPing bullshit. | ||
| I was just saying, it's almost like they're LARPing a channel that should exist in an alternate universe. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| Where this shit is true, that's where they're LARPing at. | ||
| It's unbecoming for Kevin to be this uncritical. | ||
| Whatever judgment aside that I have for whatever Apex is doing, I have strong judgment for Kevin because you can't do both. | ||
| You can't try and take down Mark Richards because he's an affront to the community and appreciate and applaud what fake time travel bullshit clickbait nonsense YouTube channel is doing. | ||
| You can't exist in both of those spaces. | ||
| It leads me to believe that something is insincere. | ||
| And based on everything else I have, all the other information of Kevin, between his weirdo channeling videos, other videos that I've watched of his where he is woefully uncritical of other people, the anomaly is the being critical of Mark Richards and Carrie. | ||
| And because we have a long-standing interaction, quote-unquote, with Project Camelot... | ||
| I feel like I'm the only person who cares enough to try and figure this out. | ||
| So, Jordan, I would like to announce here and now, I am going to make a documentary about Kevin Moore. | ||
| I'm not going to do that. | ||
| You are absolutely right. | ||
| I'm not going to do that, but I'm going to look into this much further. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You are the only person who is... | |
| Fucking deep in the weeds enough to really get to the bottom of this feud. | ||
| And the only person who has any kind of grasp on reality. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because Carrie and her friends are too busy trying to say that this guy's working for the spider leadership in the Illuminati. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And that, my friend, is a non-starter. | ||
| Are you sure? | ||
| That's not kicking us anywhere. | ||
| Well, talk to a time traveler. | ||
| Maybe he'll figure it out for us. | ||
| I can't go down that road. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's not going to be good. | ||
| One try. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So this is... | |
| Something that I need to get to the bottom of. | ||
| I'm going to get into this. | ||
| I'm going to try and solve this mystery of why Kevin Moore cares so much about this. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think the fun part of this is far more than any kind of proof of them lying or like Carrie's bullshit about space not being true. | ||
| Getting to the bottom of this weird personal or professional fight between the two of them has a far greater likelihood of like puncturing their... | ||
| They're mystique bubbles of space weirdoness. | ||
| To an extent. | ||
| If you just go down to it and you're like, oh, his mom hates her dad? | ||
| Like, their stepdad? | ||
| Montague's and Capulets. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| And you're like, okay, well then, fucking, these two idiots. | ||
| What are we doing? | ||
| And that's real. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| It's reinvigorating my interest in things a little bit because it actually is something that, like, maybe you could get to the bottom of what the fuck's going on here. | ||
| I'm never going to be able to tell you whether spider aliens are real or not. | ||
| We can... | ||
| Safely say there's no evidence for that. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But this does seem like something I could maybe dig into. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I do feel reinvigorated about the Project Camelot slash Kevin Moore world. | ||
| I do. | ||
| Not about the Project Camelot videos. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| That content I'm still very disinterested in. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| Intrigue. | ||
| I'm going to put on my goddamn Hercule Poirot mustache. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| Get to the bottom of this. | ||
| So that is something else I'll be engaging in behind the scenes. | ||
| I hope you all have enjoyed this Halloween spectacular. | ||
| Nobody dressed like a mermaid. | ||
| One guy. | ||
| One guy I may have. | ||
| Was a mermaid. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think somebody dressed up as a critical investigative journalist. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| His costume might as well have just been all cardboard. | ||
| More should really try channeling like Bertrand Russell or something like that, you know? | ||
| Try and channel any person who asks a follow-up question. | ||
| That would be good. | ||
| I'll even go with Dan Rather. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| He's dead, right? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| When did Nelson Mandela die? | ||
| It was last week. | ||
| I remember it being last week. | ||
| Strange. | ||
| So, we'll be back on Friday, Jordan. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| With a modern day Alex Jones episode. | ||
| Check in what his dumb ass is doing. | ||
| What an idiot. | ||
| What his impeachment shit is moving along. | ||
| Oh, God. | ||
| So we'll see. | ||
| But until then, we have a website. | ||
| We do have a website. | ||
| It is knowledgefight.com. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| We're also on Twitter. | ||
| We are. | ||
| It is at knowledge underscore fight and at go to bed Jordan. | ||
| You can find us on Facebook. | ||
| You could find us on Facebook. | ||
| You could go to iTunes, download, review the show, give us all that stuff. | ||
| You could go to other podcasts, you know, go to the places where you listen to podcasts. | ||
| You'll find us. | ||
| Yeah, for sure. | ||
| But we'll be back. | ||
| But until then, I'm Neo. | ||
| I'm Leo. | ||
| I'm DZX Clark. | ||
| I am a mermaid. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
| Hello, Alex. | ||
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a huge fan. | |
| I love your work. |