Knowledge Fight - #341: September 5, 2019
Aired: 2019-09-09
Duration: 02:17:37


=== Why Waiting Sucks (03:45) ===

[00:00:21]  I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys.
[00:00:29]  Knowledge fight.
[00:00:30]  Man and George.
[00:00:31]  Knowledge.
[00:00:31]  Fight.
[00:00:32]  Need.
[00:00:35]  Need money.
[00:00:36]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:40]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:42]  Stop it.
[00:00:42]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:43]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:44]  It's time to pray.
[00:00:47]  Andy in Kansas.
[00:00:48]  You're on the air.
[00:00:49]  I love you.
[00:00:59]  Hey, everybody.
[00:01:00]  Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.
[00:01:01]  I'm Dan.
[00:01:01]  I'm Jordan.
[00:01:02]  We're a couple dudes like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
[00:01:06]  Indeed we are, Dan.
[00:01:08]  Jordan.
[00:01:09]  Dan?
[00:01:09]  Jordan.
[00:01:10]  What is the longest you've ever waited for a restaurant?
[00:01:14]  Do you know what I'm saying?
[00:01:15]  Or a bar?
[00:01:16]  Do you remember when we were in Austin and there was that barbecue place that was like a four-hour wait?
[00:01:22]  Yeah, the line that goes around.
[00:01:24]  People get out there and camp out every day.
[00:01:26]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:01:26]  I was thinking about that and it must be incredible.
[00:01:30]  It must be incredible.
[00:01:31]  It is.
[00:01:32]  I would never wait four hours for it.
[00:01:34]  Well, I mean, you could probably call like a week ahead for catering and then just forego the line.
[00:01:39]  That's just a highly in-demand barbecue place.
[00:01:42]  Everyone loves it.
[00:01:44]  I don't know.
[00:01:44]  I can't think of anything that really sticks out in my head because I don't go in for that at all.
[00:01:50]  Period.
[00:01:51]  No waiting.
[00:01:52]  No waiting at all.
[00:01:53]  I would rather get something that's less good.
[00:01:56]  Right, right.
[00:01:57]  I know that there have been times when I've waited before because I have, like, you know...
[00:02:01]  Vague flashes of memories of those discs they give you that light up.
[00:02:06]  Yes!
[00:02:06]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:07]  The Applebee's.
[00:02:08]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:02:08]  I know that that's happened, but I can't really think of many instances where it has.
[00:02:14]  Anytime it's more than a 10 minute, 15 minute wait, I have...
[00:02:18]  No time for it.
[00:02:19]  So 15 minutes is your top.
[00:02:21]  Probably, but that doesn't seem that crazy to me.
[00:02:23]  Because if I went to, I don't know, like, I went to some takeout place, I hadn't called ahead, if I just show up and I'm like, I want this order, it still might take 10 minutes for them to make my food and give it to me.
[00:02:35]  Yeah, for sure.
[00:02:35]  So I don't know, it's not too bad.
[00:02:37]  10-15 minutes seems reasonable.
[00:02:38]  Yeah, I wouldn't wait an hour, though, that's for sure.
[00:02:40]  Have an hour, get out of here.
[00:02:42]  I think I've only ever waited for restaurant reservations for an hour.
[00:02:46]  Like, that's the longest I've ever done so.
[00:02:49]  And that's because I wasn't in control.
[00:02:50]  You know, it was like a family gathering.
[00:02:53]  Sure.
[00:02:53]  And once three people are like, we're waiting, you're like, ah, shit.
[00:02:57]  Well, I don't like food that much, too.
[00:02:59]  Yeah.
[00:02:59]  So, like, waiting for a restaurant is absolutely not appealing to me.
[00:03:03]  I was trying to think if I've waited in line for movie tickets.
[00:03:06]  Oh, there's no way you've waited in line.
[00:03:08]  Especially because since I was like...
[00:03:10]  16, 17, when I was younger, I worked at a movie theater.
[00:03:14]  And I just look at the people waiting for tickets and scoff at them.
[00:03:19]  That's where all queuing was ruined for you in the first place.
[00:03:23]  And then, like, I grew up in Columbia, Missouri, when I was, like, of an age where I had, like, sort of autonomy over decisions.
[00:03:29]  And, like, not a ton of bands come to Columbia.
[00:03:33]  So waiting for tickets wasn't really ever that huge a thing for me in that city either.
[00:03:39]  I bet it could have been if I had, like, more obscure tastes.
[00:03:42]  No, I don't know.
[00:03:44]  You just don't wait for shit.
[00:03:45]  You don't queue in a line.
[00:03:47]  Not too much.
[00:03:49]  I'd rather get down to it.

=== Thank You, Policy Wonks! (03:07) ===

[00:03:51]  Yeah.
[00:03:51]  Has SNL put out a bad sketch about QAnon now where they spell Q like a line?
[00:03:57]  A hundred percent.
[00:03:57]  And then it's like, I don't know who's waiting in a line.
[00:04:00]  And then it involves the Star Trek character or the Bond character.
[00:04:03]  Oh, for sure.
[00:04:04]  It's all mashed up into there, and it's hilarious.
[00:04:06]  It's a line of people named Q. That would be fantastic.
[00:04:10]  If that hasn't happened, Kenan, write it up.
[00:04:13]  Hey, come on.
[00:04:13]  Write it up.
[00:04:14]  Hey, Steven.
[00:04:16]  So Jordan, this is a podcast where I don't know much about waiting in lines, but I do know plenty about Alex Jones.
[00:04:21]  And I only know a little bit about both.
[00:04:23]  That's the fun.
[00:04:24]  So Jordan, today we've got an interesting sort of present day episode to go over, but before we get to that, I'd like to take a little moment here to say thank you to some people who have signed up and are supporting the show.
[00:04:33]  I think that's a good idea.
[00:04:34]  So first, the Anna, A-N-N-H-A.
[00:04:38]  Thank you so much.
[00:04:39]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:04:40]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:04:42]  Thank you, Anna.
[00:04:42]  Thanks, Anna.
[00:04:43]  The Anna.
[00:04:45]  Yes.
[00:04:45]  And Tom, thank you so much.
[00:04:47]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:04:48]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:04:49]  Thanks, Tom.
[00:04:50]  Next, Taylor.
[00:04:51]  Thank you so much.
[00:04:51]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:04:53]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:04:54]  Thank you, Taylor.
[00:04:55]  Thank you, Taylor.
[00:04:55]  Next, Mr. Sir.
[00:04:57]  Thank you so much.
[00:04:58]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:05:00]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:05:01]  Mr. Sir, thank you very much.
[00:05:03]  I would consider adding an Esquire as well.
[00:05:06]  Sure, absolutely.
[00:05:07]  That'll come into play a little bit later.
[00:05:09]  Oh, of course it will.
[00:05:10]  Next, Annabelle.
[00:05:11]  Thank you so much.
[00:05:12]  You are now a policy wonk.
[00:05:13]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:05:15]  Thanks, Annabelle.
[00:05:16]  And finally, I'd like to say thank you to some people who signed up on an elevated level.
[00:05:19]  We appreciate it very much.
[00:05:20]  So, Nick, thank you so much.
[00:05:22]  Charles, thank you so much.
[00:05:24]  And Francis Mary, thank you so much.
[00:05:26]  You are all now wonderful technocrats.
[00:05:29]  I'm a policy wonk.
[00:05:30]  Crikey, mate.
[00:05:31]  That's fantastic.
[00:05:32]  Have yourself a brood.
[00:05:33]  How's your 401k doing, bro?
[00:05:35]  All right, we got to go full tilt boogie on this, Watson, all right?
[00:05:37]  Let's just get down to business.
[00:05:38]  We ain't making that money off that heroin.
[00:05:40]  Why are you pimps so good?
[00:05:42]  My neck is freakishly large.
[00:05:44]  I declare Infowar on you.
[00:05:47]  Thank you so much, Nick, Charles, and Francis Marie.
[00:05:51]  Thank you very much, Nick, Charles, and Francis Marie.
[00:05:54]  Yes.
[00:05:54]  Not Marie.
[00:05:55]  No.
[00:05:55]  Bye.
[00:05:56]  We appreciate it very much.
[00:05:57]  And if you're out there listening and you're thinking, hey, I like what these guys do, you can sign up to support the show on our website, knowledgefight.com.
[00:06:03]  There's a button that says support the show.
[00:06:05]  Yeah.
[00:06:06]  So, Jordan, today, like I said, we got a mostly present day situation going on because I was looking at things and I was like, well, you know what would be great?
[00:06:17]  Everyone seems to be interested in all of these headlines that are coming out about Alex Jones losing an appeal in the Sandy Hook lawsuit.
[00:06:25]  Seeing as we've come to the point in the 2013 investigation where it looks like things are going bad for Alex's coverage of Sandy Hook, we've got to break in the case in the present day, break in the trial.
[00:06:39]  So everyone probably wants to know what we think about that and Alex's response to this news breaking.

=== Lawsuits And Chill Force (06:08) ===

[00:06:45]  And so I thought, alright, that news broke on September 4th.
[00:06:49]  So we're going over September 5th today.
[00:06:51]  Although I lost my patience for this episode pretty quickly.
[00:06:55]  Okay, of course.
[00:06:56]  And I think you might be able to figure out why.
[00:06:58]  Oh, no.
[00:06:59]  Robert Barnes is with us at the bottom of the hour to hit some key intel.
[00:07:02]  We are going to be filing lawsuits next week.
[00:07:04]  We've been a few weeks behind, but next week we're going to be filing some very important lawsuits in defense of America and free speech.
[00:07:10]  Okay.
[00:07:11]  Yep, there we go.
[00:07:12]  Lawsuits in defense of America and free speech?
[00:07:15]  Yes.
[00:07:15]  Absolutely, and we got a little bit of Barnes.
[00:07:17]  We got plenty of Barnes.
[00:07:18]  We got plenty of Barnes.
[00:07:19]  This show is so Barnes-heavy.
[00:07:21]  Oh, that's not good.
[00:07:22]  In the present day, just all goddamn Barnes.
[00:07:26]  I don't understand how you can have a show that's entirely about your own legal troubles now.
[00:07:31]  In between calling for a fucking violent overthrow, then it's just your own legal issues.
[00:07:39]  Can you imagine if, like, Anderson Cooper's all of a sudden is just doing news about his own...
[00:07:44]  How he's getting sued?
[00:07:46]  Exactly.
[00:07:46]  I kind of find it conceptually interesting, but in practice, it's not a good show.
[00:07:52]  The idea of it makes me laugh.
[00:07:54]  Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.
[00:07:55]  Much like the idea of an SNL sketch makes me laugh, but the actual sketch, probably not going to work out.
[00:07:59]  No, not going to happen.
[00:08:00]  So Alex has Barnes on to talk about these legal developments, and then what he's talking about there at the end of that clip is he's been threatening for a really long time to sue the Associated Press and media organizations because he believes that the Associated Press said that he wrote that book, No One Died at Sandy Hook, and that he had lost a lawsuit about that book.
[00:08:22]  However, as we've discussed in the past...
[00:08:24]  This is erroneous.
[00:08:26]  This is a different website.
[00:08:28]  Had that headline and had taken some content from an AP article.
[00:08:32]  But the AP article was not.
[00:08:34]  It was all on that other website that had redistributed.
[00:08:38]  So if Alex tries to sue the Associated Press over that, that's going to get thrown out of court.
[00:08:42]  Like, there's no way.
[00:08:43]  Instantly.
[00:08:44]  But he's posturing and grandstanding, like, next week we're going to file this.
[00:08:48]  Of course.
[00:08:48]  He's been saying that for fucking ever.
[00:08:49]  Of course.
[00:08:50]  It's ridiculous.
[00:08:51]  They're a few weeks behind.
[00:08:52]  He said they were a few weeks behind.
[00:08:54]  It's way longer than that.
[00:08:55]  He's been saying, we're about to launch these websites.
[00:08:58]  Barnes has just been crossing the T's and dotting the I's.
[00:09:01]  Oh, yeah.
[00:09:02]  Yuck.
[00:09:03]  Well, they had to make it through the Summer of Rage.
[00:09:05]  And they have survived.
[00:09:06]  The ship is intact.
[00:09:07]  But there's a Summer of Rage coming.
[00:09:09]  Oh, no!
[00:09:10]  This winter, Summer of Rage.
[00:09:11]  Winter is the Summer of Rage?
[00:09:12]  Shit!
[00:09:13]  So Alex gets to talking about some new products that he's got.
[00:09:18]  Okay.
[00:09:18]  He has a new product.
[00:09:19]  Oh, no.
[00:09:20]  And this product is...
[00:09:21]  It sounds crazy to me.
[00:09:23]  As we go to break, I want to just remind listeners, we are only here because of your tutelage, because of your patronage, because of your support, and I salute and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
[00:09:35]  And I want to unveil a product that I believe, because I've been taking it for several months, you may have noticed my clarity and focus in the last few weeks really tuning up.
[00:09:45]  Oh, this product.
[00:09:47]  Clarity and focus through the roof lately.
[00:09:52]  Is this a product that provides clarity and focus?
[00:09:55]  You see him, he's laser focused on the issues.
[00:09:57]  He's in the weeds, man.
[00:09:58]  This guy's a policy want.
[00:10:00]  Okay.
[00:10:01]  Yeah.
[00:10:01]  And thanks to this product.
[00:10:03]  He's the worst advertisement for this specific product in the history of ever.
[00:10:08]  I've been focused, real laid back, calm, some would say friendly, non-combative.
[00:10:16]  So this is a product called Chill Force.
[00:10:19]  laughter laughter Ha ha ha ha.
[00:10:22]  Ha ha ha ha.
[00:10:23]  And here's Alex saying a few words about that.
[00:10:27]  Well, Chill Force does that, but with the latest, this is going to be the new rage in the next few years, where it's a system that chills you out, but heightens your awareness.
[00:10:39]  It's like a smooth, zen awareness.
[00:10:42]  You can get Chill Force out of the gates.
[00:10:45]  Alex is like...
[00:10:47]  We'll just do mushrooms, man.
[00:10:48]  I would say he's like six months away from like...
[00:10:50]  How close is he getting to like Soma?
[00:10:52]  Yeah!
[00:10:55]  At what point does it cross over into like he's just doing Brave New World shit?
[00:10:59]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:11:00]  This product will make you hyper aware, but also really relaxed.
[00:11:05]  Yeah, 100%.
[00:11:06]  All right, buddy.
[00:11:07]  I don't think he'll ever do...
[00:11:09]  I think he can't combine it into one product.
[00:11:11]  What he wants you to do is wake up in the morning, take some brain force to get you through your morning.
[00:11:17]  Then as you're coming down on that, you take some chill force to go to bed at night.
[00:11:21]  No, no, no.
[00:11:21]  Put all that shit in between.
[00:11:22]  Chill force is for the evening.
[00:11:24]  Knockout is for...
[00:11:25]  We're going to bed.
[00:11:26]  Gotcha, gotcha.
[00:11:26]  We have even more products in the life cycle of the day.
[00:11:29]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:11:29]  He wants you to take a pill for literally every moment of your day to do something else.
[00:11:34]  InfoWars health can heighten every experience.
[00:11:37]  InfoWars is life.
[00:11:38]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:39]  I'm surprised he hasn't put CBD into anything.
[00:11:41]  But see, that's the other thing I was thinking, is that this is a pathetic attempt at trying to tap into the rising CBD market.
[00:11:50]  That makes sense.
[00:11:51]  Yeah, of course he's not.
[00:11:51]  I think that's probably what's going on.
[00:11:54]  But either way, I just think it's really funny the idea Alex is selling a chill out pill.
[00:11:58]  Chill force.
[00:11:59]  One that he's been taking effectively.
[00:12:02]  One thing I am known for is not my outbursts.
[00:12:08]  Ridiculous.
[00:12:08]  Oh boy.
[00:12:09]  So, Alex, I'm going to skip this clip because it's just Alex saying that he has new shows coming soon and that he's going to be soon going to a 20-hour live a day broadcast format.
[00:12:19]  Sure, sure.
[00:12:20]  I cut that clip because it's just the same thing as the lawsuits are coming.
[00:12:24]  It's all the same shit over and over and over again.
[00:12:28]  Like, you throw in a couple of new novel little pieces of bigotry here and there, some weird defense of something Trump does, and then the rest of it is all just like, it's coming, don't worry about it.

=== Alex's Appeal Strategy (15:19) ===

[00:12:39]  Got it.
[00:12:39]  Down the road.
[00:12:41]  So we get to this point.
[00:12:44]  And I should say, there are some instances of Alex saying that he's indicating some desires to get away from Trump.
[00:12:52]  But what it is, is after the El Paso and Dayton shootings, Trump came out and said, hey, maybe these red flag laws, maybe there's some value to this, some merit.
[00:13:04]  And Alex, his narrative on that was that that was the rope-a-dope.
[00:13:08]  Trying to get the globalists to reveal themselves and then give them nothing.
[00:13:12]  And now it appears that that is not true.
[00:13:15]  And that Trump might actually, or at least people within the administration, might actually be interested in these red flag type laws.
[00:13:23]  And Alex is saying that he will call for impeachment if Trump goes down that road.
[00:13:28]  So we'll see about that.
[00:13:30]  But I'm less interested in that because there's a bigger issue going on, and that is why he sat down with the fifth in the first place.
[00:13:37]  And that, of course.
[00:13:39]  Stay with us.
[00:13:40]  We're going to hit a key topic when we come back.
[00:13:42]  Did I really just lose a Sandy Hook lawsuit?
[00:13:44]  No, I didn't.
[00:13:45]  Wait till you hear this.
[00:13:47]  All right.
[00:13:49]  You're never going to believe the truth.
[00:13:54]  Okay.
[00:13:54]  So he didn't lose a Sandy Hook lawsuit.
[00:13:56]  No, of course not.
[00:13:56]  I mean, it depends on what you mean by Sandy Hook lawsuit, I suppose.
[00:14:00]  Yeah.
[00:14:00]  There's wiggle room.
[00:14:01]  Have you ever seen outside?
[00:14:02]  You're wrong.
[00:14:03]  You haven't.
[00:14:04]  Anything.
[00:14:05]  Anything that's obviously true.
[00:14:08]  Nope.
[00:14:09]  You are an idiot for thinking that.
[00:14:11]  How do you know anything exists?
[00:14:12]  Yeah.
[00:14:13]  Oh, man.
[00:14:13]  Now here's Barnes to talk about existentialism.
[00:14:17]  Here's the most solipsistic lawyer that I can think of.
[00:14:20]  Barnes.
[00:14:21]  I don't believe anything exists.
[00:14:25]  Oh, that hurt.
[00:14:27]  Trying to parody his breathing patterns really hurt?
[00:14:30]  Please, don't do an impression of Barnes.
[00:14:32]  It is a hazardous thing.
[00:14:34]  We are professionals, and even then, it's dangerous to do.
[00:14:38]  So Alex gets into, he comes back from commercial break, and he gets into talking about the Sandy Hook lawsuit.
[00:14:44]  I know when listeners hear about Sandy Hook, your eyes glaze over.
[00:14:48]  So do mine.
[00:14:49]  But this latest discapade with Sandy Hook disinformation is illustrated of how the corporate media...
[00:14:57]  Lies in mass towards a certain aim.
[00:15:00]  So, if I can show the viewers a close shot of this, please.
[00:15:03]  Another twist in the Sandy Hook family's defamation case against Alex Jones.
[00:15:09]  That's the Washington Post two months ago.
[00:15:12]  Got no coverage.
[00:15:14]  You have to specifically search the headline to even find it.
[00:15:16]  It's buried.
[00:15:17]  But there was a special interest case where the Supreme Court came in of Connecticut, took over the case before it ever even went to trial.
[00:15:25]  Years before I was going to trial, which is incredibly rare, saying that there were anomalies to how I was being treated.
[00:15:33]  We'll let Barnes, who's an expert on this, describe how important this is.
[00:15:36]  Notice, you don't see how we're winning there and how they're trying to railroad us, but it's so bad that even Supreme Courts are coming in, not after the case, but before.
[00:15:45]  Very rare.
[00:15:46]  So, first things first, that Washington Post article that he's talking about is not buried.
[00:15:50]  It's literally as easy to find as any other article that's been posted on their website, if you just look for it.
[00:15:56]  Alex is just trying to present the idea that there's some larger story where he's the good guy getting railroaded, but the media won't cover it.
[00:16:02]  And that is bullshit.
[00:16:03]  That Washington Post article and the stuff about the Connecticut Supreme Court, that has nothing to do with Alex's main court case.
[00:16:11]  That's specifically about the sanctions he was hit with after he drunkenly put out a million-dollar bounty on the opposing counsel, after which he was found to have unknowingly sent them email containing illegal pornography as part of his discovery process.
[00:16:27]  From the article, quote, The Connecticut Supreme Court agreed to hear an appeal of a lower court's decision sanctioning broadcaster Alex Jones.
[00:16:35]  From later in the article, quote, Sure.
[00:16:51]  Sure.
[00:17:03]  This is all good and well, but from everything that's publicly available, it doesn't appear that this Connecticut Supreme Court appeal has concluded yet.
[00:17:10]  So I have no idea what that has to do with the current situation and all the headlines that are coming out now.
[00:17:16]  And certainly it has no indication or bearing on the idea that the larger case has anything to do with the Connecticut Supreme Court or that they think that he's being unfairly treated in that case.
[00:17:27]  This is narrowly about the sanctions.
[00:17:31]  And the conversation, as I understand it, is about whether or not the judge can sanction Alex for something he does out of court.
[00:17:38]  Right.
[00:17:38]  With the question being, does his out-of-court behavior, in as much as he's threatening and trying to intimidate the opposing counsel, does that affect the court proceedings?
[00:17:50]  Yes.
[00:17:50]  And that, I agree.
[00:17:51]  But I'm not a lawyer.
[00:17:53]  That is a very simple question.
[00:17:54]  I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know...
[00:17:56]  I don't know how it works within a courtroom, so I understand why someone would want to Talk it out.
[00:18:02]  Right, right.
[00:18:02]  I understand.
[00:18:03]  But this isn't the Wild West where it's like, no, no, no, it's cool.
[00:18:06]  He did it in the saloon.
[00:18:08]  He threatened to kill my lawyer.
[00:18:09]  That's a completely different situation than if he did it in court.
[00:18:12]  I could see the reason for the Connecticut Supreme Court to hear it, even if they didn't agree with Alex's interpretation.
[00:18:21]  Right.
[00:18:21]  It means nothing that they agreed to hear it other than, like, it's kind of a novel question.
[00:18:25]  Let's see what the arguments are.
[00:18:27]  Exactly.
[00:18:27]  I think that's what it really is, is they're sending it to the Supreme Court.
[00:18:30]  So they don't have to deal with it ever again.
[00:18:33]  And it's not like the Connecticut Supreme Court stepped in and was like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, you're wronging my boy Alex over here.
[00:18:39]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:18:39]  Stop it with that shit.
[00:18:41]  No, they're more like, okay, fine, we'll listen to this asshole.
[00:18:44]  Yeah.
[00:18:44]  Let's do it.
[00:18:45]  The current headlines we're seeing involve the defamation lawsuit he's facing in Texas.
[00:18:49]  The Texas case was filed against Alex and it was brought by Neil Heslin, the father of a six-year-old child who was killed at Sandy Hook.
[00:18:56]  As the case got going, Alex tried to have the case dismissed, which did not work.
[00:19:00]  He then tried to appeal the decision to not dismiss the case, and the news stories popping up now are all related to the Texas Court of Appeals determining that the case can't be dismissed and Alex has to pay all the legal fees incurred by the other side during the appeal.
[00:19:13]  And he has to produce all the internal documents and emails in that discovery process, which he had been refusing to provide.
[00:19:20]  All in all, what I see here is an intentional strategy being employed by Alex and his legal team of stalling and sidetracking.
[00:19:27]  He doesn't want to see the inside of a courtroom actually having to be under oath and talking about this stuff because he knows he fucked up.
[00:19:33]  Courts are really bad places for con men, but the legal system is also a place where other cons can be run.
[00:19:40]  So, instead of moving forward with the actual case, you stall.
[00:19:45]  You refuse to hand over required documents, and then that turns into the judge issuing a side motion.
[00:19:51]  And before you know it, you're fighting a largely unrelated battle over whether or not you should give the lawyers your emails.
[00:19:56]  That drags on forever, and on the off chance you win one of these little side quests, you can run around pretending that the whole case is a sham, as proven by the win.
[00:20:04]  If you lose that little side thing, as Alex did in this Texas case, you end up having a bunch of articles written about how you lost this appeal, and then you can get on your show.
[00:20:14]  The media's saying I lost the case.
[00:20:16]  They're all fucking liars.
[00:20:17]  It's a win-win, and you prolong the day of reckoning when you're actually in court under oath.
[00:20:25]  And as far as the costs go, what is it?
[00:20:27]  Ten grand for the cost of the plaintiff's lawyers on that?
[00:20:31]  From what Barnes says, it's lower.
[00:20:34]  It's kind of a negligible cost whenever you already have a large case going.
[00:20:38]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:20:39]  And how much of that is like...
[00:20:42]  Bravado?
[00:20:43]  I don't know.
[00:20:43]  But I would assume that if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound.
[00:20:48]  That kind of thing.
[00:20:50]  Well, and not least of which is if your main court case keeps going and the penalties are millions of dollars, which I imagine we're going to be seeing very high penalties at the very least.
[00:21:03]  It's possible.
[00:21:03]  It's definitely worth $10,000 or whatever to put that day off.
[00:21:07]  Another six months.
[00:21:09]  Sure.
[00:21:09]  To make sure that, hey, at the very...
[00:21:11]  I'd almost rather spend all my...
[00:21:13]  I could sell a lot of iodine in six months and maybe that'll help lighten the blow.
[00:21:18]  Yeah, it's almost like I would spend all of my money pushing the case back for the rest of my life rather than just lose and still have to give all of my money away.
[00:21:27]  That is a strategy.
[00:21:28]  Yeah.
[00:21:29]  From everything I can tell, Alex's behavior is absolutely the behavior of someone who really, really doesn't want some specific thing to come out.
[00:21:36]  Really doesn't want it.
[00:21:37]  I don't know what that thing is, but he knows that something about this case exposes him.
[00:21:42]  If I had to guess, I would say it's either something about the source of his money or something that indicates how editorial decisions are made at InfoWars.
[00:21:49]  Either of these things would be pretty much incredibly germane to the Sandy Hook lawsuit, so I could obviously see Alex fighting like crazy to stop the discovery process in any way he can.
[00:21:59]  It turns out that his only real strategy is kind of just to throw temper tantrums that take a while to resolve and slow up the process, which can buy you a little time, like six months in the case of this Texas appeal, but it's not going to work in the end.
[00:22:13]  He's just delaying the inevitable, and that inevitability is that whatever he doesn't want people to know is going to come out.
[00:22:20]  Based on how these cases seem to be going and how he's pretty regularly being forced to pay plaintiff's legal fees, I would say that he has every reason to suspect that if these cases proceed, he's going to be bankrupted.
[00:22:31]  If he thought that he had half a chance to win on the merits, he wouldn't be doing all this weaselly shit to stall the cases.
[00:22:38]  These feel like his last gap.
[00:22:40]  Of course not.
[00:22:51]  I can't get away from this strategy not matching someone who wants to be in court.
[00:22:57]  Yeah.
[00:22:57]  Like someone who wants to prove themselves innocent wouldn't play these sorts of games.
[00:23:02]  These are the games that are played by people who need to not go to court.
[00:23:07]  Yeah, this is the corporate...
[00:23:09]  This is like Equifax and shit like that.
[00:23:12]  They will throw off any side...
[00:23:14]  The billion-dollar company is like, toss this, toss this, let's do everything we can, and then you always read those stories where it's like...
[00:23:21]  After 10 years of appeals and it's gone all this way, Equifax finally agrees to pay everybody fucking nothing, which they knew they were going to have to do anyways.
[00:23:31]  Yeah, it's one of the downsides of the fairness of the legal system is things are considered.
[00:23:37]  So, Alex, I don't think he's in a good place.
[00:23:42]  But, you know, I'll tip my hat to him because he claims...
[00:23:47]  That he's not seeking money from the Sandy Hook parents in this lawsuit.
[00:23:51]  Although he does kind of contradict himself in this clip.
[00:23:55]  But then look at this.
[00:23:56]  Alex Jones seeks $100,000 from Sandy Hook families.
[00:23:59]  The Daily Beast.
[00:24:00]  None of that's true.
[00:24:01]  I waive attorney's fees.
[00:24:02]  But now they keep filing more and more suits on top of them for no reason.
[00:24:05]  So we're not going to be able to do that.
[00:24:07]  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[00:24:08]  So the Daily Beast reported that Alex is seeking the $100,000, which is in lawyers' fees.
[00:24:14]  Yes.
[00:24:14]  And that's not true.
[00:24:16]  Right.
[00:24:16]  But now he is doing that.
[00:24:18]  Well, they have to, because they're suing him more, he has to now want that.
[00:24:22]  Okay.
[00:24:23]  So he is.
[00:24:24]  So the article is true.
[00:24:25]  Yes.
[00:24:26]  Okay, so Alex saying it's not true is a lie.
[00:24:28]  Well, it wasn't true.
[00:24:29]  Okay.
[00:24:30]  But now it's true.
[00:24:31]  All right.
[00:24:32]  See, okay.
[00:24:33]  Whatever.
[00:24:33]  Here's what he's got for you.
[00:24:34]  When the article was written, not true.
[00:24:37]  Okay.
[00:24:37]  Today?
[00:24:38]  The day after the article was written?
[00:24:40]  Totally true.
[00:24:41]  Okay.
[00:24:42]  Sounds good.
[00:24:43]  Not a lie.
[00:24:45]  Hooray.
[00:24:46]  So, Alex in this next clip just tries to deny and obfuscate the reality of the situation he's in.
[00:24:53]  I've not gone to trial on any of this.
[00:24:55]  Clearly it's been filed in Democrat-controlled areas to railroad me.
[00:24:58]  It's so obvious that the Supreme Court of Connecticut got involved.
[00:25:03]  I mean...
[00:25:04]  This is amazing, but it does make me wonder, what are they going to do next?
[00:25:07]  Here's yesterday, all over the newspapers, in the paper locally today.
[00:25:12]  Jones loses Texas appeal in an ongoing lawsuit with Sandy Hookfather.
[00:25:15]  Didn't lose an appeal.
[00:25:17]  We'll explain that in a moment.
[00:25:19]  It's, you know, it's all just down to what you define.
[00:25:24]  Like, you're able to say things like this because you're going to be like, well, technically...
[00:25:28]  The declining of the appeal was based on a jurisdictional issue, and it wasn't on the merits of the case or whatever.
[00:25:36]  You can split hairs like that if you want to, but it's not...
[00:25:42]  If you look at the larger picture of the case as it's going, this is not a positive for Alex.
[00:25:47]  It's one more battle lost in a long, ongoing war.
[00:25:52]  Well, it's a thing that Alex was pursuing, and that is to appeal the non-dismissal of the case.
[00:25:58]  Right.
[00:25:58]  The end result of that is no.
[00:26:01]  Yeah.
[00:26:02]  Whatever the reason for the no is, it's still a no.
[00:26:05]  You did not get the outcome.
[00:26:07]  You saw it.
[00:26:08]  Right.
[00:26:08]  So I look at that as, nah, that's not great.
[00:26:11]  So Barnes comes on and they talk a whole lot of bullshit about how this is going to end free speech.
[00:26:17]  Okay.
[00:26:19]  By itself.
[00:26:20]  This lawsuit, if allowed to proceed.
[00:26:23]  If even allowed to proceed.
[00:26:25]  Yes.
[00:26:26]  And not only that, that is also the goal of the people suing him.
[00:26:30]  Okay.
[00:26:31]  If some of the legal theories being pursued are permitted or allowed, then press will no longer be free and speech will no longer be free in the United States.
[00:26:39]  So these cases will establish the true scope of the First Amendment.
[00:26:43]  It will probably be the most seminal, foundational, fundamental First Amendment cases in the And by the way, you're not just saying that.
[00:26:52]  The Washington Post, the New York Times, Rolling Stone, they all say, we're ending the First Amendment using Jones.
[00:26:58]  We don't need it anymore.
[00:26:59]  It's bad.
[00:27:00]  They're not even denying that they're ending free speech in America and trying to use a straw man they built of me.
[00:27:05]  I want to get into some other big geopolitical issues.
[00:27:08]  Why are you getting into big geopolitical issues with Robert fucking Barnes?
[00:27:12]  Barnes has a lot to add.
[00:27:14]  Sure he does.
[00:27:15]  Every time we've listened to Barnes, I've thought, man, this guy has some really good takes on life.
[00:27:21]  Yeah.
[00:27:21]  I think he's great.
[00:27:22]  I think Barnes is lovely.
[00:27:24]  He knows the nitty-gritty, the details, what's going on over there in Kashmir.
[00:27:30]  Oh, of course!
[00:27:30]  You call up Barnes.
[00:27:32]  Ask him where Khartoum is and he'll tell you.
[00:27:34]  Absolutely.
[00:27:35]  So that Block Rockin' Beats takes us out to break.
[00:27:38]  Yes.
[00:27:38]  And I caught a little something in one of Alex's commercials that I thought was interesting.

=== ACLU's Defense of Civil Liberties (09:11) ===

[00:27:44]  Thomas Jefferson predicted over 240 years ago that when our republic was in trouble in the future, it'd be the farmers that were close to the ground, close to reality, who actually worked for a living that would end up saving the nation.
[00:27:57]  And today, the communist Chinese have banned all U.S. farming goods a week ago.
[00:28:01]  Well, that makes sense.
[00:28:06]  I can't find it in anything.
[00:28:08]  I think he's referencing just the Charlton Heston speech that we talked about in a recent episode.
[00:28:13]  I think you're right.
[00:28:13]  I think he's convinced himself entirely that that's a real Thomas Jefferson quote.
[00:28:17]  He's just quoting Charlton Heston.
[00:28:21]  That's not good.
[00:28:22]  God, I've never seen anybody bungle a supposed hero this bad.
[00:28:28]  Yeah, it's comical.
[00:28:29]  This is tremendous.
[00:28:30]  So they come back, and we finish up Barnes' appearance, because most of it is just deflection nonsense.
[00:28:36]  Yeah, of course, of course.
[00:28:37]  You know, after all that, Barnes gives a little bit of a plug for something that I've been a little bit aware of for a bit now, because of listening to these episodes.
[00:28:47]  But it's something that he's becoming more public about.
[00:28:50]  And it's actually something that I think deserves a little bit.
[00:28:53]  His new product, Luke Warm Force.
[00:28:54]  Oh, no.
[00:28:55]  If only.
[00:28:56]  We salute you, and I think people should become members at your amazing organization.
[00:29:01]  Again, tell people about the new organization.
[00:29:05]  Yeah, it's Free America Law Center.
[00:29:07]  Anyone can find it at www.freeamericalawcenter.com.
[00:29:12]  FreeAmericaLawCenter.com.
[00:29:13]  For $17.76 a month, they can become a member.
[00:29:17]  They just want to donate, they can do that too.
[00:29:19]  But what we give them is, first of all, they are going to be supporting the most important litigation in the country.
[00:29:24]  This doesn't go to legal fees.
[00:29:25]  This goes to court costs, witness fees, service fees, all of those other incidental costs that right now we're paying out of our own pocket.
[00:29:33]  Depositions.
[00:29:34]  Exactly.
[00:29:35]  I already have the lawyers lined up.
[00:29:36]  Lawyers to bring great cases to equalize the equation because the left has effectively monopolized public interest law in this country.
[00:29:43]  So the left has taken over the ACLU entirely to where they're not defending anybody on the right anymore.
[00:29:48]  The Southern Poverty Law Center has been a political hack organization for forever.
[00:29:51]  We need a counterpart to the Southern Poverty Law Center, an antidote to the liberal bias of the ACLU.
[00:29:57]  Oh boy.
[00:29:59]  So Jordan.
[00:30:01]  Yep.
[00:30:01]  Very funny.
[00:30:21]  It's understandable to see him popping up on other scam-slash-reactionary outlets like the Rubin Report, and doing interviews with Stefan Molyneux.
[00:30:29]  This is all predictable territory, and where a guy like Robert Barnes can shine.
[00:30:35]  However, now he's embarking on a project that, no matter how it shakes out, is a really bad sign.
[00:30:40]  Robert Barnes has launched the Free America Law Center, which he views as the antidote to the liberal stranglehold over the world of law.
[00:30:48]  The SPLC and ACLU are just shills for the Democrat Party, so the right-wing needs is their own version of these organizations in order to even the play The F-A-L-C!
[00:30:59]  Yep.
[00:31:00]  God, it would be so much better if he found Free America International Law or something like that, and he just owned himself so stupidly.
[00:31:07]  That'd be great.
[00:31:07]  That would be hilarious.
[00:31:08]  So, in his justifying the need for this organization, he claims that the ACLU only does cases for liberals nowadays, which is patently false.
[00:31:16]  No shit.
[00:31:17]  The ACLU is a non-political entity that does so much goddamn work for people's rights, it would take what's left of Barnes' breath away if he actually gave them a fair look.
[00:31:25]  Here are some of the cases the ACLU is involved in right now.
[00:31:28]  James Aaron McKinney was sentenced to death for a murder, but at his trial, the judge didn't take into consideration evidence related to his post-traumatic stress disorder, which could have been seen as a mitigating circumstance in terms of applying capital punishment.
[00:31:41]  That case has nothing to do with liberals or conservatives, but the rights of a human being.
[00:31:46]  Sounds like left-wing commie nonsense to me, Dan.
[00:31:49]  Probably.
[00:31:50]  Also, they're defending the kid who was involved in the D.C. sniper attacks, based on the reasoning that he was sentenced to life without parole as a juvenile, which is now prohibited.
[00:31:59]  Does he deserve a new sentencing?
[00:32:00]  Should the ruling be retroactive to minors who were sentenced to life without parole prior to the Montgomery v.
[00:32:06]  Louisiana Supreme Court decision, making that an inappropriate sentence?
[00:32:10]  This has nothing to do with politics, and the ACLU is on the front lines of stuff like that.
[00:32:14]  Compassion is left-wing now, I think.
[00:32:16]  I guess.
[00:32:16]  But that's not even compassion.
[00:32:18]  No, I mean kind of.
[00:32:19]  You can still hate this dude for pulling off a fucking sniper attack.
[00:32:22]  That's true.
[00:32:22]  And still recognize that maybe his sentencing is invalid now because of a new Supreme Court decision.
[00:32:28]  Right, right, right.
[00:32:28]  These are just a couple of cases they're currently involved in that involve possibly unpopular stances being taken to defend individual rights.
[00:32:36]  And there are plenty more examples of apolitical shit in the work they do.
[00:32:40]  The ACLU is the American Civil Liberties Union, and the issue here is that people like Alex and Barnes have a very specific definition of what civil liberties means.
[00:32:49]  The ACLU believes the definition includes taking on cases where refugee rights are being trampled on, where LGBTQ folks' rights are being violated, where women's rights are violated, where voting rights are being eroded.
[00:33:01]  Never!
[00:33:02]  All of these are areas where Alex and his ilk are actively interested in those rights being curtailed.
[00:33:07]  So of course they think that an organization that specifically exists to defend those rights is a secret globalist outfit trying to crush conservatives.
[00:33:14]  If their definition of conservatives is not into respecting the rights of non-straight white male naturally born citizens, then I guess the ACLU is the enemy of conservatives.
[00:33:26]  Yeah, it is.
[00:33:30]  So it's the most transparent thing to see, and it makes total sense why the narratives work out this way.
[00:33:35]  This organization works to counter the bad things I want to see in the world.
[00:33:39]  Therefore, I need to smear them as a way of invalidating their work in anything they might do.
[00:33:43]  It's almost reflexive.
[00:33:45]  And that's not to say that the ACLU doesn't deserve some criticism in some places.
[00:33:48]  It's just not the valid...
[00:33:50]  The type that people like Barnes and Alex apply to it is completely the wrong criticism.
[00:33:57]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:33:58]  It's invalid criticism.
[00:33:59]  It's always...
[00:34:00]  I can't imagine people...
[00:34:03]  You can be mad at the ACLU.
[00:34:05]  I've been mad at the ACLU, but generally speaking, if you think the ACL is a bad organization, chances are you're a bad person.
[00:34:13]  And same with the SPLC.
[00:34:15]  There's a lot of very valid criticisms that you can make of a lot of, especially internal stuff.
[00:34:20]  Just earlier this year, there was some real bad stuff came out about internal working conditions and employee harassment.
[00:34:28]  Things like allegations of that sort.
[00:34:30]  I think it's very valid to...
[00:34:32]  Be critical of those organizations, just not in the blanket, they're run by liberals to crush us whites kind of way.
[00:34:40]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:34:41]  That's the mentality that's a problem.
[00:34:43]  Yeah, those two organizations, I've always thought that, like, you know, there are those criticisms, the working conditions are terrible and all that stuff, but the main goals of the ACLU and the SPLC have always been, like, you remember all that stuff in the Constitution?
[00:35:02]  We'd like that to apply to everybody.
[00:35:05]  We want what America's original goals are, but just for all people.
[00:35:11]  And of course white people hate that.
[00:35:14]  Or certain white people hate that.
[00:35:16]  Or Alex.
[00:35:16]  So my big issue here is with Barnes' plan to set up his own counter ACLU or SPLC based on a completely inaccurate portrait of what either of those groups are or do.
[00:35:27]  Fascist Asshole Law Center.
[00:35:28]  So, one of the big problems with Barnes' plan is that groups like what he's describing already exist.
[00:35:34]  Throughout the ACLU, as an example, there are still so many non-political rights-focused advocacy groups in the United States.
[00:35:41]  I mean, for fuck's sake, in 1998, conservatives started their own American Civil Rights Union, specifically as a response to the ACLU.
[00:35:50]  This is old territory.
[00:35:51]  It's been done before.
[00:35:53]  And for these reasons, you really have to ask yourself, why is Barnes doing this?
[00:35:57]  This already exists.
[00:35:59]  Ooh, I know.
[00:36:00]  I know.
[00:36:01]  Hold your thoughts.
[00:36:01]  I know.
[00:36:02]  My hands up.
[00:36:03]  Hold your thoughts.
[00:36:03]  Okay.
[00:36:04]  One possibility, and I think it's maybe one of the more likely possibilities, is that this is a scam.
[00:36:09]  Yeah.
[00:36:10]  We've discussed many times that the trend on the right wing in the scam community is tended towards lawsuit scams, as their ability to really make much headway on social media spaces has diminished, and along with that, their ability to pull off compelling and profitable publicity stunts has waned.
[00:36:25]  It could make complete sense that Barnes knows that the future of right-wing scams is likely going to be a series of impotent threats to file lawsuits, which are then used to raise money for the person issuing the threat.
[00:36:36]  We saw that kind of shit from Laura Loomer not too long ago, and we've seen it from Alex forever.

=== Sedition and Scam (15:54) ===

[00:36:41]  Like, how long has he been saying he's going to sue the Associated Press that we talked about at the beginning of this episode?
[00:36:46]  He's always just about to file those lawsuits.
[00:36:49]  Oh, we're ready.
[00:36:50]  And until he does, he has the ability to tease his audience.
[00:36:53]  You all hate the mainstream media and I'm just the guy to fight them for you.
[00:36:57]  So give me money.
[00:36:58]  I promise the lawsuit is coming any day now.
[00:37:01]  Schrodinger's lawsuit.
[00:37:02]  If Barnes is smart, then this Freedom Law Center, this Free America Law Center, is him setting up a corporate entity so he can make these idle legal threats seem credible and then take a cut off the top.
[00:37:13]  Which, if that's it, then I respect the hustle and I tip my hat to him scamming these racist idiots.
[00:37:18]  Oh, and it's going to be filed as a 501c3 as well.
[00:37:21]  However, Jordan, there's a possibility that this is something far more nefarious.
[00:37:26]  I'd like to tell you a little story about a man named Kirk David Lyons, a man whose footsteps Robert Barnes may be following in.
[00:37:33]  Kirk Lyons grew up in Texas, and according to a bio of him from Baylor University, quote, from a young age, Lyons was confronted with the issue of racial equality.
[00:37:42]  Hmm, Baylor, that's a very ambiguous line.
[00:37:49]  It's a bad sentence.
[00:37:50]  It's not good.
[00:37:51]  If a write-up of your early years includes seeing black people in schools was difficult for Kirk as a child.
[00:37:56]  Yeah, see, they really hammed up what the, like, they...
[00:38:03]  Very much hid, I think, what it was that was actually going on.
[00:38:07]  I think it's a diplomatic phrase.
[00:38:09]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:38:09]  But still, if you read between the lines, you can tell there's trouble.
[00:38:13]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:38:14]  So Lyons went on to law school at the University of Houston and then started practicing on his own.
[00:38:19]  Then in 1985, he met Louis Beam, the former head of the Klan and then head of the Aryan Nations.
[00:38:25]  Right.
[00:38:25]  Beam was brought to Lyons by a mutual acquaintance and had set up the meeting because he was afraid he was about to get arrested and he wanted to secure counsel.
[00:38:33]  Now, why this mutual friend would think, hey, I know a guy who would be really interested in getting in on the ground floor of the Louis Beam legal team, that's anyone's guess.
[00:38:42]  I would imagine it's probably because Lyons gave off that old telltale cool with Nazis vibe.
[00:38:47]  Yeah, he's more of one of those guys who preferred Alabama in 59, you know what I mean?
[00:38:52]  Like, that's how Baylor should put it.
[00:38:53]  He's one of those curts.
[00:38:55]  Not all of this is from Baylor.
[00:38:57]  Ironically, a good amount of this information came from the Southern Poverty Law Center.
[00:39:02]  Which is why people like Barnes hate them.
[00:39:04]  So when Beam was arrested in 1987, Lyons left his practice to represent him in a trial that's known as the Fort Smith Sedition Trial.
[00:39:14]  In that trial, 14 white supremacist leaders were tried on accusations they had planned to overthrow the government.
[00:39:20]  Outside of a court of law, that's a slam-dunk case.
[00:39:23]  These dudes literally never stop talking about crushing the Zionist-occupied government.
[00:39:28]  They are not very secretive about what they want and plan to do.
[00:39:31]  So what they're saying outside of the courtroom is, we are planning together to overthrow the government.
[00:39:39]  Right.
[00:39:39]  Now, when they get inside of a courtroom, Dan...
[00:39:42]  That's free speech.
[00:39:43]  No, it seems like...
[00:39:44]  It's free speech.
[00:39:45]  No, but it seems like they were actually planning it.
[00:39:47]  It's free speech.
[00:39:48]  You can't prove anything.
[00:39:49]  Never mind.
[00:39:50]  So, Beam was on trial along with Richard Snell and David Lane, who were members of white supremacist groups who had already carried out murders, as well as the founder of the Aryan Nations, Richard Butler.
[00:40:00]  A white supremacist named Glenn Miller agreed to testify against the other men in exchange for a reduced sentence on a ton of other charges, including making bombs.
[00:40:09]  He served three years in prison thanks to his cooperation.
[00:40:11]  Yeah.
[00:40:12]  In 2014, Glenn Miller carried out two shootings at the Jewish Community Center of Greater Kansas City and Village Shalom, the second of which is a retirement home.
[00:40:21]  He killed three people.
[00:40:22]  Ironically, since his attack was clearly based on his anti-Semitism, none of the people he killed were Jewish.
[00:40:28]  At the community center, he killed a 14-year-old and his grandfather, who were just there visiting.
[00:40:32]  Anyway, that's the legacy of one of these guys.
[00:40:40]  Yeah, great.
[00:40:41]  Good people.
[00:40:42]  Good peeps.
[00:40:43]  That guy could have been in prison for a lot longer than three years, but he'd agreed to testify in the Fort Smith sedition trial, so he got a lesser sentence.
[00:40:49]  Unfortunately, his assistance in the case was pointless.
[00:40:52]  All of the defendants were acquitted due to lack of evidence, which is exactly the sort of outcome you'd expect in a case like that.
[00:40:58]  It's insanely hard to prove a conspiracy, particularly one to actually overthrow the government, when it's perfectly acceptable as a defense to say that you're constant screaming about how the government has been taken over by malevolent demons is just criticism of the...
[00:41:12]  Yeah.
[00:41:13]  So anyway, all these dudes walked, and immediately Kirk Lyons became a big fucking deal in the world of white supremacy.
[00:41:19]  God, I hate them.
[00:41:20]  He was the lawyer that saved all their leaders from jail time, and as Louis Beam put it, quote, dealt a huge blow to the Zog.
[00:41:27]  That's such one of those fucking things where you're like, I get it, and I know I shouldn't be one making the decision, but everybody knows that Colin Kaepernick should be in the fucking NFL, and it's a goddamn conspiracy to keep him out of the NFL, but you go into courtroom and they're like, well, you can't prove that, and it's like, no, of course you can!
[00:41:48]  He should be there!
[00:41:49]  The fact that he's not is proof!
[00:41:51]  That he's being blackballed.
[00:41:52]  But they're like, nope, you can't prove it.
[00:41:54]  That's the difference between what you can, come on, prove, and what you can prove, prove.
[00:42:00]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:42:01]  So, it's one thing for a lawyer to defend white supremacists and Nazis.
[00:42:04]  As we've discussed many times, no matter how villainous a person is, it doesn't make you a villain for defending them in court.
[00:42:10]  It might mean you're a shithead, but it doesn't prove that.
[00:42:13]  Just the fact that Lyons decided to put his previous career on hold to defend Louis fucking Beam doesn't mean that he's a Klansman or a Nazi.
[00:42:21]  Absolutely true.
[00:42:22]  The fact that he was an active Klanman and a Nazi does prove that, though.
[00:42:26]  That does help.
[00:42:27]  Yes.
[00:42:29]  There is not a dearth of evidence for this one.
[00:42:32]  He marched with the Klan and Nazis in 1989 in Tennessee.
[00:42:35]  He was a member of the National Alliance, a group run by William Luther Pierce, the author of the Turner Diaries.
[00:42:41]  He was definitely, definitely a member of these groups, as proven by correspondences written by Pierce, identifying lines as a lawyer within their ranks.
[00:42:50]  To give you some idea how deep in the mix Lyons was, when he got married in 1990, the ceremony took place at the Aryan Nations compound.
[00:42:58]  Wow.
[00:42:58]  His bride had two brothers.
[00:43:00]  One was in prison because he was a member of the Order and was involved with some of their murders.
[00:43:04]  He's a member of the fucking Order?
[00:43:06]  God, I hate these people.
[00:43:07]  The other brother was second in command of the Aryan Nations.
[00:43:10]  Right, right.
[00:43:11]  Richard Butler.
[00:43:12]  So he was marrying royalty.
[00:43:14]  Yes.
[00:43:15]  God, I hate these people.
[00:43:16]  Richard Butler, the founder of the Aryan Nations, and one of the men who Lyons helped beat those sedition charges, officiated the ceremony.
[00:43:24]  Were they all wearing white hoods too?
[00:43:26]  Louis Beam was his best man.
[00:43:28]  God.
[00:43:28]  He was deep.
[00:43:29]  God damn it.
[00:43:30]  That is deep.
[00:43:31]  In 1988, Lyons was invited to give a speech at the Aryan Nations World Congress, where he discussed ideas about setting up a foundation which could operate like the SPLC, but protect people who were white supremacist leaders, who were like those white supremacist leaders who he represented.
[00:43:47]  People who he thought were just patriots and dissidents, in quotes.
[00:43:52]  This took shape in the form of the Patriots Defense Foundation.
[00:43:55]  In soliciting donations for the PDF, William Luther Pierce told his followers in a newsletter, quote, Man, that sure seems like a conspiracy to overthrow the government.
[00:44:16]  I'm just saying.
[00:44:17]  The PDF would change its name in 1991 and would henceforth be known as CAUSE, which stands for Canada, Australia, US, South Africa, and Europe, reflecting the areas in the world people were being attacked right to them right right right right they built themselves as quote america's only pro-white law firm and put out ads in all the places you would expect soldier of fortune storm front yeah all the all the normal Normal.
[00:44:42]  Yeah, we're not really a pro-law kind of place.
[00:44:45]  We're more a pro-white kind of place.
[00:44:47]  The law is secondary.
[00:44:48]  I don't really like that whole law, so we're going to do whatever we can to get around it.
[00:44:52]  If laws contradict with our pro-white shit, then we're not into the laws.
[00:44:54]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:44:55]  From there, he started courting all the right-wing monsters he could to take on his clients, from Holocaust deniers to your run-of-the-mill militia guys who might have killed someone because they didn't like them existing.
[00:45:05]  Right.
[00:45:06]  Kirk Lyons was an attendee of the Rocky Mountain Rendezvous, the meeting held by Christian identity preacher Pete Peters, which brought together all the luminaries in the world of white bigotry.
[00:45:15]  He was there with Larry Pratt, head of Gun Owners for America, and early Alex Jones sponsor.
[00:45:20]  Pratt ended up having to resign from Pat Buchanan's 1996 presidential campaign because it came out that he was at that meeting.
[00:45:28]  But the other reason he had to step down is it was revealed that Gun Owners of America had given cause...
[00:45:34]  The white supremacist law organization tens of thousands of dollars.
[00:45:38]  Then, as the case was for everyone in the right-wing patriot militia world, the Oklahoma City bombing fucked everything up.
[00:45:45]  It came out that Kirk was close associates with Andreas Strasmeier, and it actually introduced him to people at Elohim City, which looked really bad when rumors started flying around that Strasmeier might have had something to do with the plan or inspiration for the bombing.
[00:46:00]  A lot of the militia community thought that Strassmeyer was working for the government, so that association was toxic there.
[00:46:07]  Ironically, it was the same white supremacist Yeah, of course.
[00:46:18]  Oh, man.
[00:46:25]  Now, the problem is that the sane world also, you know, they saw Strassmeyer as potentially a really dangerous extremist who played some undefined role in a deeply traumatic terrorist attack.
[00:46:36]  So his association with him was toxic to that world, too.
[00:46:39]  Kirk Lyons had had his fun with the overt white supremacy world, but it looked like his good time was over.
[00:46:46]  Not quite over.
[00:46:47]  Man, it's really almost like being involved with a group of fascist sociopaths.
[00:46:54]  You just don't know when they're going to turn that sociopath part on you.
[00:46:59]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:47:00]  Maybe they're bad people, and you can't trust on their loyalty on account of them being awful.
[00:47:06]  They have an interesting thought there.
[00:47:07]  Yeah, that's just me.
[00:47:08]  So his path was not quite over.
[00:47:10]  Kirk knew the block was too hot, so he decided to rebrand.
[00:47:14]  As Jennifer Lopez.
[00:47:15]  No.
[00:47:16]  He did so by founding the Southern Legal Rights Center.
[00:47:20]  A direct shot fired at the Southern Poverty Law Center.
[00:47:22]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:47:23]  We got it, dude.
[00:47:23]  Well done.
[00:47:24]  The SLRC was specifically created to defend Southern heritage, meaning neoconfederate racism.
[00:47:30]  Oh, boy.
[00:47:30]  Oh, man.
[00:47:32]  He preferred Alabama in 59. You know what I mean?
[00:47:36]  So he's defending Southern heritage from what he called, quote, an ethnic cleansing of Dixie.
[00:47:40]  This was proto-demographic replacement shit.
[00:47:43]  It was the early versions of this.
[00:47:46]  He's consistently advanced a theory that, quote, Confederate Southern Americans are a distinct race, and thus deserve a distinction as a protected class under the Civil Rights Act.
[00:47:56]  Whenever this theory has been brought out in court, it has not gone well, but it appears it did way better on the soliciting donations from racist circuit.
[00:48:04]  I couldn't imagine that.
[00:48:06]  It's almost like they can't wait to give their money away to a failing idiot.
[00:48:10]  So here's the point.
[00:48:11]  The right wing, particularly the white identity faction of the right wing, has a pretty deep tradition of presenting their arguments duplicitously.
[00:48:19]  Attempting to masquerade violent bigotry as a civil right, and plotting terrorist acts against the government they feel is Zionist-occupied as free speech.
[00:48:28]  This is a scam that's been done before.
[00:48:30]  I mean, you know, it may be that Robert Barnes isn't trying to get into this hustle, but I don't believe that.
[00:48:36]  No, of course not.
[00:48:37]  He's using very similar strategies to Kirk Lyons.
[00:48:39]  He's using the same language about the SPLC, only helping his enemies.
[00:48:43]  And he's got his own Fort Smith sedition trial here in the form of Alex's Sandy Hook case.
[00:48:48]  This looks like history repeating itself.
[00:48:51]  And one of the main reasons I feel that way is because there's already plenty of groups that do exactly what Barnes is pretending doesn't exist.
[00:48:58]  There's already the American Civil Rights Union, which is very active and has filed tons of briefs defending Trump's Muslim ban, supporting voter ID laws and trying to help with Republican redistricting and gerrymandering.
[00:49:11]  There's also the Southeastern Legal Foundation, which just serves the purpose of a legal center for conservative causes.
[00:49:18]  If you want to go a little bit more libertarian with things, you could go with the Pacific Legal Foundation, which has been operating since 1973 and whose priorities literally completely overlap with what Alex pretends to care about.
[00:49:30]  Private property, free speech, free association, due process, all that shit.
[00:49:34]  Right, right, right.
[00:49:35]  If you want one that's religious in nature and pretty cool with you being anti-LGBTQ, you could mess around with the Alliance Defending Freedom.
[00:49:42]  Or if you want one that's super-Christian and kind of unclear about whether they have a problem with you being anti-LGBTQ, you could consult the American Center for Law and Justice.
[00:49:52]  For fuck's sake, there's already an organization called the American Freedom Law Center that is specifically about protecting vague ideas about Judeo-Christian heritage.
[00:50:01]  There are so many of these fucking groups already, and many of them are very prominent, and they all address the exact issues that Robert Barnes is pretending no one addresses, thus his need for the Free America Law Center.
[00:50:13]  His reason for starting the group is bullshit, and thus, I have to suspect there are other reasons.
[00:50:20]  Oh yeah.
[00:50:20]  It could just be a scam, you know, and he's trying to fleece some racist idiots.
[00:50:25]  But my gut says that you wouldn't take this all the way to the starting a foundation level if that was your goal, just fleecing people.
[00:50:33]  This feels ideological.
[00:50:36]  When you look at Robert Barnes and you see his past actions, his past client list, particularly of late, and the way he carries himself, nothing seems right.
[00:50:44]  His past clients include Charles Johnson, a Holocaust denier who's kicked off Twitter for, quote, soliciting support to take out DeRay McKesson, who, as you know, is a civil rights leader and activist.
[00:50:56]  That case was thrown out of court, but not before Barnes had a chance to frame the whole thing as censorship and anti-social media, all those good narratives.
[00:51:05]  It got a lot of traction out of it.
[00:51:06]  When a fine, upstanding white man with a long history of anti-everything-but-white people threatens to kill a man and makes a detailed plan about it, you guys are all up in arms.
[00:51:21]  Free speech!
[00:51:22]  So that did real well in the right-wing media, even though it got thrown out of court and people think it's a joke.
[00:51:27]  Of course.
[00:51:27]  Then he represented Cassandra Fairbanks when she sued a reporter at Fusion for saying that her making the OK hand signal along with Mike Cernovich in a picture taken at the White House was a white power sign.
[00:51:38]  That case also got thrown out, but not before Barnes had a chance to frame it as a critical First Amendment and anti-media narrative.
[00:51:45]  And again, he did really well in the right-wing circuit with that.
[00:51:48]  His latest hustle outside Alex is representing the Covington kids.
[00:51:52]  And by representing them, I mean he's going around threatening to sue everyone in the media, plus Elizabeth Warren and apparently Ilhan Omar, because they spoke ill of these fantastic white boys.
[00:52:03]  In a particularly dramatic move, back in January, he gave the people who spoke ill of the kids 48 hours to retract their slanderous words or face the wrath of his lawsuits, which, as we've seen, seem to get thrown out of court a lot.
[00:52:15]  After he'd made his very serious and very real threat, he was the target of another very serious and totally real threat when someone sent him a bomb threat.

=== Barnes' Epoch Times Blunder (11:51) ===

[00:52:24]  To be clear, I don't think that anyone should ever even jokingly threaten someone, so I do still think that the person who sent this message is a piece of shit and probably should have some consequences.
[00:52:32]  But it's hilarious that Barnes decided to take it seriously and take to the right-wing media to proclaim his victimhood about this.
[00:52:39]  He made a mistake by sending a screenshot of this email that he received to media outlets.
[00:52:44]  Oh, no.
[00:52:45]  Like the Epoch Times.
[00:52:47]  Oh, no.
[00:52:47]  From that screenshot, we can tell a few things.
[00:52:50]  One is that Barnes uses Gmail.
[00:52:52]  Which is weird.
[00:52:53]  Two, this threat came in from a form submission on his website, Barnes Law, which he runs through Squarespace, which is a little sad for someone in Barnes' position.
[00:53:03]  I use Squarespace, for fuck's sake.
[00:53:06]  He's supposed to be a big-time, high-end lawyer, and he's got a goddamn $20-a-month website going?
[00:53:11]  Get the fuck out of here, Barnes.
[00:53:12]  Hey, what are you going to do?
[00:53:13]  The reason I bring those two things up is that Squarespace is a huge company.
[00:53:16]  And this isn't the first time someone has realized they can send messages with fake email addresses filled in and send threatening things to people.
[00:53:23]  That doesn't make them anonymous.
[00:53:25]  In order to relay the message to Barnes'email, I find it incredibly unlikely that a footprint wouldn't be left behind.
[00:53:31]  And that person's IP address wasn't logged by the server that sent the message through.
[00:53:36]  Guess what, Dan?
[00:53:37]  Dan, guess what?
[00:53:39]  It's coming from inside the house.
[00:53:41]  Oh, no.
[00:53:42]  I don't think that it necessarily was.
[00:53:43]  I think that this is just selective media manipulation.
[00:53:47]  Could be.
[00:53:47]  The Epoch Times article says, quote, he's received thousands of messages since picking up the case and hasn't been able to sift through all of them.
[00:53:54]  I find that weird because the subject line of that threat email is, quote, you're a racist piece of shit.
[00:53:59]  And it doesn't say anything threatening at all.
[00:54:02]  Like, the headline of the email isn't at all threatening.
[00:54:06]  It's just insulting.
[00:54:08]  Free speech, as Barnes might say.
[00:54:10]  Ah, no, they're doing it to him.
[00:54:11]  He received that message at 10.45am on January 23rd, and the Epoch Times article was published on January 24th.
[00:54:20]  I find it incredibly hard to believe that he has thousands of messages he can't get through all of them, but somehow he saw this one and created a media blitz out of it in under 24 hours.
[00:54:29]  It's even harder to believe when you realize that the Epoch Times was late to the game on this story.
[00:54:35]  The Gateway Pundit had an article up before 5 p.m. on the 23rd.
[00:54:39]  Jesus Christ.
[00:54:39]  Hours after he received this email.
[00:54:41]  Jesus Christ.
[00:54:42]  And you know who wrote that breaking exclusive story for the Gateway Pundit?
[00:54:46]  Why, it's Cassandra Fairbanks, Barnes' former client in one of her legal publicity stunts.
[00:54:52]  So weird.
[00:54:53]  Oh my God, I hate these people so much.
[00:54:56]  Very suspicious.
[00:54:57]  I hate them so much!
[00:54:58]  And now, here with Alex, Barnes has the perfect opportunity to parlay this case into pretty much a limitless self-promotion.
[00:55:05]  He's representing a guy with a media empire that's not doing great financially.
[00:55:09]  He needs a lawyer.
[00:55:10]  You need publicity.
[00:55:11]  It's perfect.
[00:55:12]  It works out perfectly.
[00:55:13]  But publicity wasn't about his own practice.
[00:55:17]  Or even getting his own show and usurping Alex, as we've joked about.
[00:55:21]  I suspect that it was about this all along.
[00:55:23]  And it looks like now the transition is beginning.
[00:55:26]  Barnes is openly promoting the Free America Law Center on Alex's show, and Alex has to tell his listeners to donate to this cause.
[00:55:34]  I mean, if you go to Barnes' website, Barnes Law, his law firm, in the cases section, Alex isn't in there.
[00:55:42]  You go to the Free America Law Center, cases, Alex is in there.
[00:55:47]  He's moving this stuff over there in order to build up a more robust...
[00:55:54]  of a lot of these organizations, the ones that do exist don't have scam histories to them.
[00:56:00]  Right.
[00:56:01]  Like these conservative or libertarian public law organizations don't have like, huh, we're going to fucking just support these grifter assholes and their publicity stunts and see what we can do.
[00:56:16]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:56:17]  That's not how these organizations start.
[00:56:19]  But something like The Patriots Defense Fund comes out of that mentality.
[00:56:28]  So I'm worried.
[00:56:29]  I'm worried.
[00:56:30]  I'm not saying I need to be clear about this.
[00:56:33]  I'm not saying that what Barnes is doing is exactly the same as what Kirk Lyons did.
[00:56:37]  Right.
[00:56:38]  In as much as, like, you know, Kirk Lyons was straight up hanging out with and defending real neo-Nazis and white supremacists.
[00:56:46]  Yeah, but I mean, at this point, what else can we call Alex?
[00:56:51]  I still think there's a difference between him and fucking Richard Butler.
[00:56:56]  There is an absolute difference.
[00:56:58]  He's on the radio.
[00:56:59]  That's one.
[00:57:01]  I think that you could make an argument that some of the form and function of their rhetoric is maybe similar.
[00:57:10]  There's overlaps.
[00:57:11]  But in terms of what they're doing, you can't even come close to comparing them.
[00:57:15]  One guy started the Aryan Nations, and one guy...
[00:57:19]  Screams a bunch of incredibly bigoted shit on a radio show.
[00:57:23]  Yeah, but, you know, he funnels some people into the Aryan nation.
[00:57:27]  So, I guess he didn't start it.
[00:57:29]  And the other guy started it.
[00:57:30]  I guess he didn't start it.
[00:57:31]  I mean, yeah, the other guy goes down in history as a fucking, what, a legend?
[00:57:35]  Well, I mean, if you want to put it that way.
[00:57:38]  A fucking nightmare boogeyman.
[00:57:40]  I was a bit concerned about this Free America Law Center.
[00:57:44]  Because I think that it could bode very terribly.
[00:57:48]  It could turn into a form where Barnes is able to provide legal cover for a lot of these shithead propagandists, racial agitators, anti-LGBTQ activists, some of the more fringe, dangerous people within the right-wing media.
[00:58:10]  Right, right, right.
[00:58:11]  And so I wanted to get more into it, but Alex does.
[00:58:13]  Mm-hmm.
[00:58:16]  I haven't really heard them bring it up all too much in his other appearances, although I did know that Barnes was starting it.
[00:58:22]  Yeah.
[00:58:22]  Or he'd made plans to start it.
[00:58:24]  And so I was like, well, all right.
[00:58:26]  I got to go check out other things Barnes has done.
[00:58:30]  And so, I decided to listen to his interview with Stefan Molyneux.
[00:58:34]  Oh, God.
[00:58:35]  You don't have any clips of Molyneux talking, do you?
[00:58:37]  Got a bunch.
[00:58:38]  I fucking hate him!
[00:58:39]  Well, sorry.
[00:58:40]  I hate him so much!
[00:58:41]  Sorry!
[00:58:42]  So today, the rest of this episode, we're going to be going over Robert Barnes appearing on Stefan Molyneux's show.
[00:58:48]  Because they talk a bit more about what Barnes wants to do with the Free America Law Center.
[00:58:54]  And I figure, like, okay, if I have my theories and my ideas about what his motivations are, I need to hear him talk more about this.
[00:59:02]  And this is the forum in which he did have an hour to talk about this.
[00:59:07]  Here's my pre-guess.
[00:59:10]  Pre-guess, alright?
[00:59:12]  When you file one of those bullshit lawsuits, like with Cassandra Fairbanks or any of that stuff, you gotta put up the money right up top.
[00:59:19]  And then you gotta ask for donations from people.
[00:59:22]  What if?
[00:59:23]  I don't believe that...
[00:59:52]  1776 subscriptions are going to pay for high-end lawsuits.
[00:59:58]  I just don't think the subscriber base is nearly what he's pretending it is.
[01:00:03]  You would still need high-end benefactors.
[01:00:07]  That would be something that you would be able to mask with one of these non-for-profit 501c3 type organizations.
[01:00:19]  Stefan gets into this interview and he starts by sort of describing what he sees as Barnes' plan.
[01:00:27]  The two of them have clearly communicated prior to this where Barnes has explained what he's up to.
[01:00:32]  I'm evil.
[01:00:33]  I'm evil as well.
[01:00:34]  Good text message.
[01:00:36]  Hi, everybody.
[01:00:36]  It's Stefan Molyneux from Free Domain here with Robert Barnes, caped superhero extraordinaire of the legal system, who has put together a website and an approach that I think it's fair to say is designed to help with some of the challenges of, you know, if you're not on the left or if you criticize the left and you've been in the public eye for more than 8 to 12 minutes at a time, then the tsunami of lies and falsehoods and slander and libel just comes pouring at you like some hell-sense tsunami.
[01:01:04]  And then you say, oh, well, I'm sure this can be easily corrected, given that lying about people and harming their reputation seems to be not good in the legal system.
[01:01:11]  And then you run straight into these problems of having to prove actual malice and all these other kinds of things, especially if you're a public figure, of course.
[01:01:20]  So the recourse in America, I think, tips a little bit more towards the First Amendment rather than reputational protection.
[01:01:28]  But you're, I think, taking an approach that is very interesting.
[01:01:31]  So I wonder if you could...
[01:01:32]  Get us up to speed on your lawsuits and the approach that you're taking.
[01:01:36]  Absolutely.
[01:01:37]  So, Stefan seems to be saying that, you know, I'm against the First Amendment when it comes to reputational protection.
[01:01:46]  Against the First Amendment?
[01:01:47]  Isn't that what he just said?
[01:01:48]  That's tough to square with, uh...
[01:01:51]  That's bananas.
[01:01:52]  Yeah.
[01:01:52]  But, I mean, it's in line with, like, the stuff that Trump was saying about, like, opening up libel laws.
[01:01:56]  Right, right, right.
[01:01:57]  When he was on the campaign trail.
[01:01:58]  Right, but...
[01:01:59]  So it kind of, you know, there is some, like, thematic similarity between that.
[01:02:03]  But, yeah, I mean, like, what do you...
[01:02:06]  What he's advocating for is ludicrous.
[01:02:08]  Because if someone does lie about you, you can still demand a retraction from them, even if there's no actual malice.
[01:02:16]  That only is about suing them.
[01:02:19]  And if you sue them, you definitely should have to prove that there was an intent behind their lie about you.
[01:02:26]  So I'm worried.
[01:02:29]  You would also have to prove that it was a lie.
[01:02:32]  That's true, too.
[01:02:33]  See, now, there's a larger issue with a lot of those lawsuits is they're saying that they're lying.
[01:02:39]  The truth, though, is different.
[01:02:41]  Later, Stefan is complaining about, like, you know, because of all these big tech companies, you know, there's no good things about certain people out there.
[01:02:52]  Like, what if there isn't anything good to say?
[01:02:55]  What if you're just an unmitigated piece of shit, Stefan?
[01:02:59]  You are a giant pile of garbage and nothing you've done will ever be of value to the rest of humanity.
[01:03:05]  All I see is negative things tweeted at me and, like, that's clearly because of tech censorship.
[01:03:11]  Sure!
[01:03:12]  As opposed to there's just a lot of people who think bad things.
[01:03:14]  Because there's no possible way that everybody couldn't agree that I'm the greatest.
[01:03:20]  I don't understand why people would say any mean things to me at all.
[01:03:23]  I think that that's a function of the narcissism that comes along with this world, too.
[01:03:27]  Just imagining that there's no way I could be wrong.
[01:03:30]  There's no way that anyone could dislike me.
[01:03:32]  So, you know, we have this set up that the free speech is a problem because of the need to protect my reputation or something, which seems silly.
[01:03:45]  But Barnes gets into answering that question.
[01:03:49]  So the goal was we needed a legal institution that was sort of a counterpart to the Southern Poverty Law Center, sort of the antidote to the Southern Poverty Law Center, sort of the equivalent of the ACLU, but the equivalent of it for all people, not just people on the left, not just causes on the left, not just cause celebs on the left, which unfortunately is what the ACLU has mostly done these days.

=== Virtue Signaling Talks (15:10) ===

[01:04:08]  We needed something like that for people on the political right, for libertarians, for independent people, for people who aren't part of the cultural cachet of the left.
[01:04:16]  That already exists.
[01:04:18]  As we've gone over a hundred times, the framing of this, the presentation of why you need to do this is a lie.
[01:04:25]  If you want to make the argument that these things do exist, but they're ineffective, then you would be coming from a more honest perspective.
[01:04:34]  If you wanted to say, alright, I'm Robert Barnes, I believe in these libertarian, conservative ideas.
[01:04:41]  Therefore, I'm going to join up with this other existing public law organization that already serves those interests.
[01:04:49]  Work to make that better so it can be the antidote to the SPLC and ACLU.
[01:04:56]  There are existing frameworks that are run by very credible people.
[01:05:02]  People who are of high stature in society.
[01:05:07]  This reminds me so much of the, like, why aren't there any Muslim leaders decrying hardcore Muslim terrorism, huh?
[01:05:15]  We never hear from the leaders of Islam that radical Islamic terror is awful.
[01:05:21]  And then it's like, well, that's because you didn't Google it for two seconds.
[01:05:26]  You don't want to hear that.
[01:05:28]  You don't want to know that this already exists.
[01:05:30]  I think that that's...
[01:05:32]  Possible, but I honestly think that it's more that what he wants to do is different.
[01:05:36]  Yeah.
[01:05:36]  And he doesn't really want to bring into the conversation that a real sane and even slightly insane version of what he talks about already exists and has for decades.
[01:05:46]  Yeah.
[01:05:46]  Like, he doesn't want to talk about that because he needs to present this as a new and novel idea.
[01:05:50]  He needs to present the idea that the left has been dominating and the only people who are in that space of, like, public law.
[01:05:58]  Right.
[01:06:02]  It seems suspicious.
[01:06:03]  Right.
[01:06:04]  It seems suspicious if you know that all these things already exist.
[01:06:07]  Right.
[01:06:07]  And he doesn't want to answer the question of, like, why are you doing this?
[01:06:10]  That's absolutely true.
[01:06:11]  Because, yeah, if you're trying to create an antidote on the right to the ACLU and you're really going for it, you're going to wind up creating the ACLU.
[01:06:21]  You know, you're just going to do the same thing that they do.
[01:06:24]  It's just because that's how that works.
[01:06:27]  Yeah, it's fascinating.
[01:06:28]  There are some conservative-leaning public civil rights and liberty-based organizations that do side with.
[01:06:36]  Yeah, because if you're caring about reality and you give a shit about, yeah, absolutely, you actually have principles, then you wind up realizing, oh shit, yeah, I care more about...
[01:06:56]  Doing things the right way or the legal way than I do about lying about it.
[01:07:01]  It's very imaginable that a conservative and a liberal could come together on the discussion about whether or not the kid in the D.C. sniper case deserves a new trial based on the Supreme Court decision.
[01:07:13]  Absolutely.
[01:07:13]  Conservative could agree or disagree with that proposition.
[01:07:17]  Liberal could agree or disagree with that proposition.
[01:07:19]  But there's no reason why a group interested in individual rights...
[01:07:24]  No matter the political alignment, couldn't agree on that case.
[01:07:27]  Absolutely.
[01:07:28]  It's just shady shit that Barnes is up to.
[01:07:32]  Yeah, and that's because I would hazard a guess that if you are going to actually give a shit and you're going to litigate these cases and you want them to go to trial, then that means in order to win your case, you have to accept a shared reality.
[01:07:48]  Both sides agree on what the facts are.
[01:07:52]  And so then you find out so much of ideology and all that shit doesn't apply because it's actually not real.
[01:08:01]  Like so many of these grifter cases, they're fundamentally imaginary.
[01:08:06]  Right.
[01:08:07]  They're using public opinion.
[01:08:08]  Exactly.
[01:08:09]  It's the court of public opinion versus the court of court.
[01:08:12]  Exactly.
[01:08:12]  And that's all this game is.
[01:08:14]  Yeah.
[01:08:15]  And that sort of Free America Law Center would be incredibly effective in terms of the court of public opinion.
[01:08:23]  100.
[01:08:23]  It would be something that could be used as just an intense media arm of these, I don't know what to call them.
[01:08:35]  Dabblers in extremism.
[01:08:37]  Right, right, right, right.
[01:08:38]  And the centers that do side with the ACLU, of course they're not going to draw in those same level of donations because sometimes they do things that the propaganda says are wrong.
[01:08:48]  Maybe, maybe not.
[01:08:49]  I'm not sure how it would go.
[01:08:51]  I'm not sure if Barnes' ventures would be more successful or not.
[01:08:54]  I think this is doomed, quite frankly.
[01:08:56]  But it also scares me because on the off chance that it's not doomed, it could be a very, very dangerous organization.
[01:09:04]  So in this next clip, Barnes talks about how the left, you know, they virtue signal.
[01:09:10]  Sure we do.
[01:09:12]  And I take some issue with this.
[01:09:15]  The second thing the left does well is because virtue signaling matters so much to donors and contributors on the left, they're willing to fund, crowdfund liberal causes in ways that generally conservatives just haven't.
[01:09:28]  Most conservatives want some value for what they give their money for.
[01:09:31]  Well, that makes it difficult to be able to crowdfund for lawsuits where the only value is knowing that the lawsuit's going to move forward.
[01:09:38]  So the goal was to create a legal organization that serves the needs and meets the interests of people all across the political spectrum to fight the three Ds, deplatforming, defamation, deep state whistleblowing, to equalize and democratize access for all of those people.
[01:09:53]  So we created Free America Law Center, which people can look up, find out more online about at freeamericalawcenter.com.
[01:10:00]  And the goal was to not make it as donor-driven or as contributor-driven, but to make it membership-driven, so to make it subscription-driven.
[01:10:08]  So people sign up for a monthly subscription at a very affordable, accessible rate, $17.76 a month to recognize our great American patriotic history.
[01:10:16]  You're so stupid.
[01:10:17]  And to help create an organization that...
[01:10:19]  I feel like that price is virtue signaling.
[01:10:24]  Absolutely.
[01:10:28]  That price is not based on the free market, Dan.
[01:10:33]  It certainly seems to be signaling a virtue.
[01:10:36]  It's there to send a signal to others of something that you find valuable.
[01:10:42]  All these lefties do is they virtue signal with their crowdfunding, and me, I am a patriot based on the price that I'm putting on this.
[01:10:52]  Yikes.
[01:10:53]  I love the inverted reality of people thinking that all the causes that we donate to have no value, and yet they would donate to fucking Barnes because they want to get something for their money.
[01:11:07]  That's insane.
[01:11:08]  You'll see a little bit later the pitch that he has.
[01:11:11]  Actually, I'll go ahead and skip to that clip now because you think that you're not going to get anything for that 1776.
[01:11:16]  I believe I will.
[01:11:16]  And you're fucking wrong.
[01:11:18]  Okay.
[01:11:18]  We're providing actual direct benefits to people.
[01:11:21]  So people that are monthly subscribers get to vote on what kind of cases get pursued.
[01:11:25]  They also get weekly podcasts where only members get to ask questions of lawyers and legal experts to answer those in Q&A podcasts.
[01:11:32]  They get weekly books that are going to be a Bill of Rights bookly series.
[01:11:36]  They'll be issued at least monthly to people that are self-educated or self-armored in the law can better protect their own rights and defend their rights.
[01:11:44]  So we're giving them tangible value that's personal to them.
[01:11:47]  While at the same time trying to create a law center that can equalize and democratize access to the law against big media and big tech.
[01:11:54]  How fucking weird is it, the idea that Barnes is like, if you donate, you can vote on what cases all take?
[01:11:59]  That's bananas.
[01:12:00]  That doesn't seem like it's principle-driven.
[01:12:03]  That is ridiculous.
[01:12:05]  That is absolutely ridiculous.
[01:12:07]  That seems weird.
[01:12:08]  That is...
[01:12:09]  You can't even parody that.
[01:12:11]  Good on him for doing a podcast, though, and having e-books.
[01:12:14]  Yeah.
[01:12:14]  Whatever.
[01:12:15]  That's at least, like, that's something.
[01:12:17]  Yeah, I suppose.
[01:12:18]  Yeah, if people are interested in hearing his pressured voice, then enjoy that podcast.
[01:12:25]  The voting on cases is troubling.
[01:12:27]  Oh, no, that's...
[01:12:29]  I can't imagine that.
[01:12:29]  That gamifies the entire thing.
[01:12:32]  Absolutely.
[01:12:32]  And it really doesn't seem like a good way to run a law center.
[01:12:36]  Did he not...
[01:12:37]  Do none of these people learn the lesson of Bodie McBoatface?
[01:12:42]  I haven't learned that lesson.
[01:12:43]  Bodie McBuff, whenever you are like, I am going to open this up to the internet to make a good decision and not turn it into a fucking joke.
[01:12:53]  People will make it a joke.
[01:12:54]  Exactly.
[01:12:55]  Yeah, there is that tendency.
[01:12:57]  But, you know, you gotta do something.
[01:13:00]  Maybe this is a bad idea, but you have to do something because there's a conspiracy going on that Robert Barnes is fighting against.
[01:13:08]  And what's happening is big tech and big media are colluding in ways to suppress and censor dissident voices using their superior lawfare and their superior legal acumen and talent on their side of the aisle because of their ceaseless bench and endless progress.
[01:13:23]  This is exactly what Kirk Lyons told the Aryan Nations World Congress in 1988.
[01:13:30]  They're against us in our dissident voices, the patriots.
[01:13:34]  It's exactly the same rhetoric that is being used as a justification for starting the Patriots Defense Foundation.
[01:13:41]  Similarly, what you have in William Luther Pierce's letter about Kirk Lyons, he's going to help us create something to help us in the same way the Jews have done for our enemies.
[01:13:59]  You have that same thing.
[01:14:01]  We need something that will do for us what the left has done for the people we're against.
[01:14:11]  he's not saying the same things, but the structure is the same.
[01:14:15]  The argument is the same.
[01:14:17]  And a lot of the people that seem to be adjacent to the worlds that Barnes is swimming in are fucked up.
[01:14:24]  Stefan Molyneux went to Poland and became a white nationalist.
[01:14:28]  I'm sitting here talking to him.
[01:14:29]  I can't take the context out of...
[01:14:33]  I can't hear this without thinking of Kirk Lyons because...
[01:14:38]  The parallels are too strong.
[01:14:40]  Right.
[01:14:42]  I mean, I would, you know, to get back to our earlier conversation, though, Lions was dealing with the founder of the Aryan Nation, and Barnes is dealing with Cassandra Fairbanks and Alex Jones.
[01:14:53]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:14:54]  No, totally.
[01:14:54]  But I think it might be more profitable.
[01:14:56]  It's absolutely more profitable.
[01:14:58]  I think it might be a smarter thing to do.
[01:15:00]  Oh, of course.
[01:15:00]  And not least of which, it gives you way less attention.
[01:15:03]  But give it more time, and who knows what it could be.
[01:15:07]  I don't know.
[01:15:08]  So, in this next clip, Barnes decries the downfall of the left as being, I don't know, noble or heroic or something?
[01:15:19]  The media just seems out of control in their reputational attack.
[01:15:23]  And, you know, the left used to be like, well, you know, the David versus Goliath stuff will always side with David because Goliath has so much power.
[01:15:30]  But now you see the left really siding with the giant corporations in tech, with the giant corporations in media against the little guys who don't seem to have any particular capacity to push back against.
[01:15:42]  Absolutely.
[01:15:45]  I see it as sort of a parallel pattern.
[01:15:47]  That what's happening in defamation and deplatforming is also happening with Antifa, which is sort of a violent mechanism of trying to enforce orthodoxy in speech, limit what people can say, limit, scare people into self-censorship.
[01:16:01]  I mean, the most effective form of censorship is self-censorship.
[01:16:04]  And so if you can get people afraid of, man, if I say that, I might get sued.
[01:16:08]  I might lose my job.
[01:16:09]  I mean, there was a guy representing the Pre-American Law Center that was going to support that was just working at a gas station.
[01:16:15]  And he got fired just because he asserted political beliefs related to Trump.
[01:16:20]  Because some other customer created a storm about it.
[01:16:22]  Huh.
[01:16:23]  I don't know who the person Barnes is talking about because the current cases section in the Free America Law Center website doesn't include them.
[01:16:31]  The only cases listed there are the Covington kids, a former FBI agent he's representing, and Alex Jones.
[01:16:37]  Like I said, Alex is not listed on the current roster of cases on Facebook.
[01:16:41]  But we'll see.
[01:16:45]  I'm guessing.
[01:16:47]  The client that he's discussing here is the guy who worked at a gas station in Naperville, just outside of Chicago, who was not just fired for supporting Trump.
[01:16:55]  This guy was caught on video questioning the citizenship status of a customer and then telling her that people needed to, quote, go back to their country.
[01:17:03]  He tells the woman, quote, you're in the wrong country, and as she's leaving, threatens her, quote, ice will come, which is a real cool indication that normal folks are keenly aware that ice is basically a racial stormtrooper force.
[01:17:14]  Yep.
[01:17:15]  This, of course, was on the heels right after Trump's whole send her back thing.
[01:17:19]  So I guess you could kind of argue that this is showing support for Trump.
[01:17:23]  I think it's very telling that he's reframing that as expressing a pro-Trump position.
[01:17:29]  Totally, because that's how these things go.
[01:17:31]  The real incident is a blatantly racist and offensive interaction that's beyond the pale, regardless of a person's political beliefs.
[01:17:37]  I've managed retail outlets, and if someone was acting even close to the way that guy did towards a customer, they'd be fucking gone.
[01:17:44]  Even if it wasn't about race, even if it wasn't about her citizenship status, you don't get into fights with customers pure and simple.
[01:17:52]  If you're a clerk at a gas station, I regret to say this, and I speak as someone who worked at multiple gas stations in my life, you are insanely replaceable, and no business should feel any need to keep a guy who likes to argue with customers on the payroll.
[01:18:05]  That's bad business.
[01:18:07]  I'm not sure if this is the case that Barnes is talking about, but I would kind of bet that it is, based on the details that he provides, and because video of the exchange between the clerk and customer went around on social media, so it plays into that part of Barnes' platform.
[01:18:21]  This is not a case of someone who was fired for supporting Trump, but that's how racism and being a shitty employee are whitewashed.
[01:18:30]  If this really is the case that Barnes is talking about, it clearly shows what his intentions and strategies are.
[01:18:36]  You take people like this who do blatantly intimidating racist things, and then you reframe it, repackage it as some sort of a violation of the offender's rights.
[01:18:47]  And by virtue of that, you hope to gum up the process.
[01:18:50]  Or intimidate people out of, you know, dealing with these sort of outbursts rationally.
[01:18:57]  Yeah.
[01:18:58]  Do you, like, the person has to have no idea that Barnes is just exploiting them for money, right?

=== Why Not Settlement? (02:11) ===

[01:19:07]  Like, the person who got fired from the gas station.
[01:19:10]  They'd probably get a cut.
[01:19:10]  Do you think so?
[01:19:11]  I don't know.
[01:19:12]  I don't know how this works.
[01:19:13]  I think I'm imagining that how that works is Barnes goes to them and...
[01:19:19]  It convinces them that they have a case and that if they stick with Barnes, they're going to wind up winning a lot of money or whatever it is.
[01:19:26]  I wouldn't be too surprised if that guy in Infowars listeners heard Barnes on it a bunch and reached out to him.
[01:19:31]  Oh, that's a good point.
[01:19:32]  I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised by that.
[01:19:35]  It would seem strange for Barnes to reach out to him.
[01:19:38]  But again, I wouldn't put that past it.
[01:19:40]  I don't know how any of this stuff works.
[01:19:42]  I don't know what anybody's expectation is outside of we create...
[01:19:47]  Or at least we try to work on creating an atmosphere where our bigotry is legally defensible.
[01:19:56]  Or it's legally defendable to the point where people will resist pushing back on it.
[01:20:00]  They want to create a fear of stepping up to and treating publicly abusive racist outbursts as actually...
[01:20:10]  Protected speech.
[01:20:12]  Well, they want it to become that.
[01:20:13]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:20:14]  Absolutely.
[01:20:15]  So...
[01:20:16]  I just don't understand how the guy at the 7-Eleven doesn't realize that Barnes is exploiting him completely.
[01:20:23]  Like, he's gonna go home at the end of all of this.
[01:20:26]  He's gonna go home with nothing and having achieved nothing.
[01:20:29]  But he might have more than he would otherwise.
[01:20:32]  He lost his job.
[01:20:33]  What the fuck else?
[01:20:34]  Why not?
[01:20:34]  Why not throw in, see if we can make a couple bucks off the gas station chain?
[01:20:39]  Fair.
[01:20:40]  You know, you threaten them enough.
[01:20:42]  You have an intimidating enough lawyer.
[01:20:46]  You might be able to make a settlement out of it, and it's not like he's getting nothing.
[01:20:50]  Barnes will get a bit of it, but he'll get something.
[01:20:53]  I don't know.
[01:20:53]  We'll see.
[01:20:55]  I don't know.
[01:20:55]  I used to work at gas stations.
[01:20:57]  I was pretty dumb.
[01:20:58]  I might have gone along with something like this.
[01:20:59]  But then again, I wouldn't have done that to a customer at the beginning.

=== Revealing Extremist Tactics (15:29) ===

[01:21:02]  Right, right, right.
[01:21:03]  I don't know.
[01:21:04]  Anyway, because of all this, because of the nature of what this organization really is geared towards, Stefan knows that this is good.
[01:21:13]  This is something I'm into.
[01:21:16]  Well, I obviously have somewhat of a personal motive in supporting somebody or a group who's out there trying to balance things like the SPLC, which to me has become a completely ideologically driven institution that lists people like PragerU and me and other people who are just making arguments and doesn't list Antifa.
[01:21:37]  I mean, this is just crazy.
[01:21:39]  And I think there is this general sense, you know the rule, right?
[01:21:43]  Any organization that's not specifically anti-left gets progressively more left over time as the activists get in to enact their collectivist, anti-free market, anti-freedom agenda.
[01:21:54]  And so I really like the idea, you know, the SPLC to me is beyond reforming, but having a counterweight to it I think is really important because it really is such a one-sided battle at the moment.
[01:22:07]  No doubt about it.
[01:22:08]  There are tons of counterweights already.
[01:22:11]  If you think that they're not doing a good enough job, that's the conversation you need to have, as opposed to these things don't exist.
[01:22:19]  This is really an important distinction to make, because the way they frame this is all like, there is nothing.
[01:22:28]  It's a wide-open wilderness on the right side of public law.
[01:22:32]  We need it because these liberals have dominated this space and their superior lawcraft and lawfare.
[01:22:42]  And that's just not the case.
[01:22:43]  That is absolutely not the case.
[01:22:45]  It's dishonest framing.
[01:22:48]  And when you frame something dishonestly, it means that you're up to something, generally.
[01:22:54]  Does he...
[01:22:55]  God, I've asked this question I don't know how many times.
[01:22:58]  Stefan Molyneux, does he actually believe his own bullshit?
[01:23:02]  Because what he just said was so nonsensically just imaginary.
[01:23:10]  Everything he's talking about is fictitious.
[01:23:13]  Except for his need for something like Barnes' organization.
[01:23:15]  Well, yeah, there's that.
[01:23:16]  That's absolutely fair.
[01:23:18]  But it's just like that entire sentiment was gaslighting.
[01:23:21]  Well, it's the same thing with what we were talking about earlier.
[01:23:24]  With the ACLU, it defends rights that these people don't believe should be defended.
[01:23:29]  Yeah.
[01:23:29]  So, therefore, it's a terrible organization taken over by globalist leftists and collectivist agenda and far-left activists, blah, blah, blah, ba-do, ba-do.
[01:23:37]  It's the same thing with SPLC.
[01:23:39]  You have, like, they watch out and, like...
[01:23:41]  They cover extremists on the right.
[01:23:45]  They're one of the forces that actually takes the time and researches a lot of these people who are really dangerous.
[01:23:53]  And people like Stefan Molyneux don't get a pass from them.
[01:23:57]  Right.
[01:23:57]  He went to Poland and declared himself a white nationalist.
[01:24:01]  Yes.
[01:24:01]  Like, he is on the radar.
[01:24:03]  That's what I'm saying.
[01:24:04]  Deservedly.
[01:24:04]  And that's one of the most generous ways I can describe Stefan Molyneux, is saying he went to Poland and became a fucking white nationalist.
[01:24:11]  He's way worse than that.
[01:24:12]  Oh, infinitely.
[01:24:14]  The SPLC exists as a place that doesn't give a pass to these people who want to get a pass.
[01:24:19]  Right.
[01:24:20]  Don't pay attention to that shit.
[01:24:22]  Oh, fucking PragerU and me.
[01:24:24]  We're just having ideas.
[01:24:25]  Fuck off.
[01:24:25]  We just make arguments.
[01:24:26]  That's what I'm saying.
[01:24:28]  He has to be aware that he's so full of shit.
[01:24:32]  But it's all the same game.
[01:24:33]  That idea, like, I'm just making arguments as opposed to what you're really doing.
[01:24:37]  I just had debates.
[01:24:38]  It's the same thing that's very similar to this whole...
[01:24:44]  Sort of masquerading what's really going on.
[01:24:47]  Yeah.
[01:24:48]  You know, like saying that this gas station person is just supporting Trump.
[01:24:52]  God.
[01:24:53]  It's the same whitewashing.
[01:24:54]  It's the same.
[01:24:55]  It's a strategy that people like this use.
[01:24:58]  Right.
[01:24:58]  And it's essential to their ability to operate because they went around and were like, hey.
[01:25:03]  I am going to defend this guy who said a bunch of racist shit to a customer when he was working at a gas station and he got fired because of it.
[01:25:12]  And I think it's great that he said things like this.
[01:25:14]  And we should all be thrilled about minimum wage employees getting racist with customers.
[01:25:22]  That is the sort of thing that society needs.
[01:25:25]  No one's giving money to that.
[01:25:27]  Except for the really hardcore racists.
[01:25:29]  Right.
[01:25:30]  And that's not a big enough pool for you to run a fucking law center with.
[01:25:34]  So you need to pretend that it's a Trump issue.
[01:25:37]  You need to pretend that it's the persecution of the noble, sensible Trump voter.
[01:25:43]  Because that's a much larger audience from which to fish for donations.
[01:25:47]  Right.
[01:25:48]  You masquerade things.
[01:25:49]  No one's going to be mad about Stefan just making arguments.
[01:25:53]  Ugh.
[01:25:54]  Fucking asshole.
[01:25:55]  You have to hide.
[01:25:56]  Got it.
[01:25:57]  I hate him so much.
[01:25:58]  You have to hide because presenting what you really do sincerely and honestly is a losing game.
[01:26:04]  It's a bad game.
[01:26:05]  Which is why they lose in court.
[01:26:07]  Exactly.
[01:26:09]  So in this next clip, Barnes says something positive about Morris Dees, the founder of the Southern Poverty Law Center.
[01:26:17]  Morris Dees in the time?
[01:26:19]  Yeah.
[01:26:19]  The founder of the SBLC, Morris Dees.
[01:26:21]  I'll give him credit.
[01:26:22]  He was originally started off in a credit in a certain way.
[01:26:25]  He started off as a Klan lawyer in the 1960s, and then he figured out there was more money if he was suing the Klan.
[01:26:31]  It wasn't driven out of ideological predilection or anything else.
[01:26:35]  What is that giving him credit for?
[01:26:37]  I don't know.
[01:26:38]  I'll give him some credit.
[01:26:40]  It's so weird.
[01:26:41]  Some credit goes to, he did used to defend the right.
[01:26:44]  He did used to defend the right.
[01:26:46]  I said that quietly.
[01:26:48]  Oh no, I said that loudly.
[01:26:50]  Shit.
[01:26:50]  Is it like...
[01:26:52]  I don't understand what's being applauded.
[01:26:55]  Because it could be that he was originally a Klan lawyer.
[01:26:58]  Is that it?
[01:26:58]  I don't know.
[01:26:59]  Is it that Dee's decided to start suing the Klan?
[01:27:02]  Is that what he's applauding?
[01:27:03]  It doesn't feel like it.
[01:27:05]  Is it the fact that his decision to be anti-Klan wasn't motivated by being against the Klan, just by it being a financial consideration?
[01:27:12]  None of the options seem good.
[01:27:14]  All of them seem to be Barnes saying, D's sucks.
[01:27:17]  But to his credit, he wasn't really against the Klan.
[01:27:20]  He was just following the money.
[01:27:21]  Yeah, basically what he said is, like, I think what he thought he was saying was that previously he was non-ideological.
[01:27:31]  Or, like, he didn't pick sides?
[01:27:36]  I guess?
[01:27:37]  I don't know.
[01:27:37]  I guess that's what he thought he was saying.
[01:27:40]  That he didn't pick sides, I guess.
[01:27:43]  That might be the most generous reading.
[01:27:45]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:27:46]  What he said was he's a Klan lawyer.
[01:27:48]  Morris Dees is called a Klan lawyer because in 1962 he represented a Klansman named Claude Henley who was on trial for attacking the Freedom Riders.
[01:27:56]  He was 26 years old at the time and less than two years out of law school and has been very publicly clear that he regrets taking that case.
[01:28:03]  His subsequent legal history does seem to indicate that sometime after the trial he had a bit of a change of heart.
[01:28:09]  As reflected by the cases that he took on and the fact that he supported George Wallace's campaign in 1958, but by 1972 he was backing George McGovern.
[01:28:19]  Dees is a gigantic target for the right wing because he's completely destroyed a lot of white supremacist groups.
[01:28:25]  He's won large settlements against the white Aryan resistance, the United Clans of America, and the Aryan Nations.
[01:28:31]  People on the really fucked up parts of the right wing know they can't complain about him on the merits, which is to say they can't just come out and say that they hate that he financially crippled white supremacist groups.
[01:28:41]  So they have to take the alternate approach.
[01:28:43]  You try to taint his motives.
[01:28:44]  You try to say, like, well, he was originally a Klan lawyer, all that stuff, etc.
[01:28:48]  It's all an attempt to attack without revealing why you're mad at him.
[01:28:55]  But I think his political work is very important.
[01:28:59]  It should be pointed out that Dees himself might not have been all that great a guy.
[01:29:02]  And he was fired by the SPLC earlier this year.
[01:29:04]  And many have suggested that it stemmed from internal harassment complaints.
[01:29:08]  Yeah.
[01:29:08]  You know how I know about that?
[01:29:10]  It certainly isn't from Barnes or Alex or any of these right-wing truth-tellers.
[01:29:14]  It's from the fucking New York Times, the bastion of liberal media, the world where you dare not criticize the darlings of the left, a world where the SPLC runs the show.
[01:29:27]  employee complaints.
[01:29:28]  Meanwhile, all I hear from these right-wing dicks is the same, his civil rights work is invalid, claptrap.
[01:29:33]  It's all bullshit.
[01:29:34]  Like, there are valid complaints to be made about Maurice Dees as a human, and even the, like we talked about earlier, the institution of the SPLC.
[01:29:43]  But the complaints that I hear out of these people is never that.
[01:29:48]  But at the same time, they can't...
[01:29:51]  Talk about the legitimate complaints, because out of one side they'd be like, see, look at how bad this guy is, and the other side of the mouth they're like, employers should be able to do whatever they want to their employees, and so on and so forth.
[01:30:02]  That is a functional problem of their other positions.
[01:30:06]  So, in this next clip, Barnes, I think, really fucks up.
[01:30:11]  90% of the people they list on their so-called hate watch are not haters.
[01:30:15]  They're just different dissident views that are often within the political mainstream on the political right.
[01:30:19]  None of them are racist.
[01:30:21]  It's extraordinary the number of people they were putting on there and the list they were putting on there.
[01:30:24]  So, I think that Barnes might have said the quiet part the loudest there.
[01:30:29]  Wow.
[01:30:29]  He claims that 90% of the people listed on the SPLC's Hate Watch are just, quote, different dissident voices that are often within the political mainstream on the political right.
[01:30:38]  Uh-huh.
[01:30:39]  Here are some of the most recent headlines on Hate Watch.
[01:30:42]  There's an article about the power struggle that's going on in the leadership of the anti-government militia, the Three Percenters.
[01:30:48]  There's an article about Beth Van Duyen, a woman running for Congress who's really into calling groups of Muslims, quote, hotbeds of Sharia.
[01:31:02]  There's an article about how many of the accelerationist elements in the white supremacist communities were responding to the El Paso shooting by emphasizing the need to kill important people instead of random folks at Walmart.
[01:31:14]  There's an article about how a member of an Arkansas white nationalist group who was arrested for beating up a gay man because he was gay also had previous hate crime convictions in the past.
[01:31:23]  Legitimately.
[01:31:24]  If you look at these articles and you think, well, that's basically mainstream right-wing dissident voices, you're identifying the same problem I am, but you don't think it's a problem.
[01:31:32]  Right.
[01:31:33]  That's not good.
[01:31:35]  Well, you didn't talk about all of their organizations, Dan.
[01:31:39]  You only brought up a few examples.
[01:31:42]  See, 90% of them are, all of those groups are like...
[01:31:47]  Americans for having a good time at places, and they're in the political mainstream right.
[01:31:53]  Sure.
[01:31:54]  That's what it is.
[01:31:54]  They're in the political mainstream right.
[01:31:56]  Sure.
[01:31:57]  All they want to do is kick them out of the country.
[01:32:00]  They don't want to hurt anybody.
[01:32:01]  They're in the political mainstream right, Dan.
[01:32:03]  They're not a hate group.
[01:32:04]  I guess Barnes could actually maybe be talking about their extremist files, that section of the site.
[01:32:10]  Mm-hmm.
[01:32:11]  But he's just calling it Hate Watch, because that's the catchy name that people remember.
[01:32:15]  Yeah, he's just an asshole.
[01:32:15]  But that would be even worse for him, man.
[01:32:18]  The people listed in the Extremis files are really bad people.
[01:32:22]  Yeah.
[01:32:22]  We could go through that list one by one and discuss how a lot of these people are either literal murderers who killed people for white supremacist causes or how a lot of them are outright Nazis.
[01:32:31]  But instead, what I would like to do is, I'd like to ask who Barnes thinks exactly are these 90% of people who are in the political mainstream on the right.
[01:32:41]  That's the sort of thing that's really fun to say.
[01:32:43]  And it plays really well with the right-wing persecution complex.
[01:32:46]  But if he actually means what he's saying, then he's tacitly saying that the mainstream of the right-wing has been...
[01:32:55]  Maybe that is what he's saying.
[01:32:57]  After all, he's talking to a guy who went to Poland to become a white nationalist.
[01:33:01]  Well, I think we've all realized that overtaken is not necessarily the word.
[01:33:06]  Bubbled to the surface is probably a better way of putting it.
[01:33:10]  What was always there is just now allowed to run rampant.
[01:33:14]  I don't know.
[01:33:14]  I don't know if I wholly agree with you on that, but that's an argument for another day.
[01:33:19]  So, in this next clip, Barnes gets into theory.
[01:33:22]  Oh, no.
[01:33:23]  He has a theory about the media.
[01:33:25]  Oh, no.
[01:33:26]  And what they do with depictions of folks.
[01:33:31]  It also reminds me of what I studied when I was a scholarship student at Yale.
[01:33:35]  Which was studying cultural phenomenon in the 60s and 70s, where particular groups tended to be demonized within the popular media.
[01:33:42]  And back then, the target was interesting was you had both African Americans and poor whites from certain parts of the country tended to be portrayed disproportionately in dangerous and frightening ways.
[01:33:53]  And what the theory that I came up with that seemed to be an overlap...
[01:33:56]  Is that the big cultural institutions tended to try to demonize those communities and constituencies that had a counter-narrative to whatever the establishment narrative of the day was.
[01:34:07]  And so if you came from a community that reflected that, that community tended to be demonized in the popular cultural representation.
[01:34:13]  In the last 15 years, that has shifted heavily towards white men in general, but also at religious people.
[01:34:21]  There's a disproportionate targeting, even like a show like Big Little Lies on HBO.
[01:34:26]  Would represent this bad maternal character as being a religious figure.
[01:34:30]  Well, sorry, let's be specific here.
[01:34:32]  By religious, you mean Christian?
[01:34:35]  Exactly.
[01:34:35]  Okay, just because, you know, there are other religions out there that, despite having some negative beliefs in general, are almost universally portrayed with rapturous positivity, like somebody's either a cult member or a groupie.
[01:34:47]  So let's just be real specific.
[01:34:49]  So Barnes is trying to be coy with saying religious people.
[01:34:53]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:34:54]  Stefan forced his hand to be clear.
[01:34:57]  Yep.
[01:34:57]  And you heard Barnes agreed.
[01:34:59]  He's like, when Stefan says, let's be clear, we're talking about Christians.
[01:35:03]  He's like, yes, absolutely.
[01:35:04]  Yes.
[01:35:04]  I didn't want to make it clear.
[01:35:06]  I wanted to leave a little air of vagueness that I'm talking about white Christian identity here.
[01:35:12]  This is what I'm defending.
[01:35:13]  This is what I'm into.
[01:35:15]  Alex would have been like, religion.
[01:35:16]  Good call.
[01:35:17]  Wink.
[01:35:18]  Stefan Molyneux is like, I am free to be a white nationalist wherever I want.
[01:35:22]  No one cares.
[01:35:23]  I don't give a fuck.
[01:35:24]  No one cares.
[01:35:26]  I've been through the fire and everyone knows I suck.
[01:35:28]  Yep.
[01:35:29]  Let's talk about fucking Christian supremacy and white dominion.
[01:35:35]  Yeah, I mean, that really kind of, in much the same way that that clip where 90% of the people on Hate Watch is kind of, oh, that's revealing.
[01:35:43]  Yeah.
[01:35:44]  That's fucking revealing, too.
[01:35:45]  Oh, yeah.
[01:35:46]  The idea that Woody's pushing is this idea that, like, oh, everything is against whites and Christians.
[01:35:53]  Yeah.
[01:35:54]  It's like, all right, I see what you're doing.
[01:35:56]  Yeah, can you imagine how...
[01:35:58]  Like, imagine being able to tie Barnes down and be like, okay, fine.
[01:36:03]  Pick the 90%.
[01:36:05]  Oh, I would love that.
[01:36:06]  Pick the 90%.
[01:36:07]  Pick out of all of those names.
[01:36:09]  You give me 90% of them and we'll see.
[01:36:12]  We'll fucking see who's in the political mainstream right.

=== Hit Pieces and Catholic Schools (03:38) ===

[01:36:15]  No, totally.
[01:36:15]  And if you still believe they're in the political mainstream right, obvious.
[01:36:19]  That's what I'm saying.
[01:36:20]  This is fun to say and it works on Stefan Molyneux's podcast.
[01:36:23]  For sure.
[01:36:24]  But feet to the fire or whatever.
[01:36:26]  No chance.
[01:36:27]  No way.
[01:36:28]  This doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
[01:36:29]  It's just shit talk that appeals to the conservative victimhood narratives.
[01:36:34]  It's a very...
[01:36:34]  Very, very marketable thing.
[01:36:37]  Yeah, it doesn't stand up in a court of law.
[01:36:39]  No.
[01:36:40]  No.
[01:36:41]  So we get further down this slippery road that we're on where we learn that it's all about Christianity and whiteness.
[01:36:52]  Of course.
[01:36:52]  Barnes starts talking about the Covington case that he's involved in.
[01:36:56]  And I think he says some things that aren't true.
[01:36:59]  It was really a sub-motivation taking place in the Covington case.
[01:37:04]  The message was, what are these institutions that are successful at resisting sort of the elite cultural liberal institutions of entertainment and education that are almost monopolized by the identitarian left?
[01:37:16]  Well, that is places like religious schools and Catholic schools.
[01:37:20]  They're one of the last repositories of independent education, which will challenge the establishment narrative in a wide range of cultural contexts.
[01:37:28]  So by trying to demonize Catholic schools, by trying to scare parents, saying, man, if your kid goes to a Catholic school, someday maybe the New York Times will ruin your life just because he really goes to a Catholic school.
[01:37:40]  That was really, in fact, there were writers for the New York Times who were planning on follow-up hit pieces against Catholic schools.
[01:37:46]  Wow.
[01:37:48]  Wow.
[01:37:48]  Writers for the New York Times are planning a hit pieces that apparently didn't come out.
[01:37:52]  I guess they stopped those.
[01:37:53]  Maybe they weren't hit pieces to begin with.
[01:37:54]  Maybe they were investigations.
[01:37:55]  Jesus.
[01:37:57]  I'm pretty baffled by...
[01:37:59]  I mean, the very idea that religious education...
[01:38:03]  I don't want to demonize it.
[01:38:05]  I don't want to malign it.
[01:38:06]  But presenting it as one of the only places where...
[01:38:11]  It's strange because there's an overlay of religion on it.
[01:38:16]  Barnes, let me ask you a question.
[01:38:19]  One of the strictest and most dogmatic places that you could ever get an education is the last bastion for free thought.
[01:38:29]  Sorry, I completely forgot everything I've ever learned about Catholic school.
[01:38:33]  Apologies.
[01:38:34]  Not to be too blunt about this.
[01:38:38]  This is extremist shit.
[01:38:40]  The presentation of religious schools are the only place that give you a counter-narrative to the mainstream that is essentially trying to brainwash you and create a collectivist dystopia where conservatives aren't allowed to say anything.
[01:38:55]  This is extremist shit.
[01:38:57]  Just presented in a lackadaisical kind of like matter of fact way that makes it seem like it's not as extreme as it is.
[01:39:06]  I'm still not able to draw this parallel that you're talking about with lions.
[01:39:11]  I don't see any similarities between them whatsoever.
[01:39:16]  There's probably none.
[01:39:16]  So in this next clip, Barnes just lies.
[01:39:20]  I mean, Jack Dorsey for Twitter said Twitter would be the free speech wing of the free speech party.
[01:39:25]  Well, that's the biggest lie that anybody's told in the last 20 years because they've become one of the key means of suppression and censorship.
[01:39:32]  For example, if anybody goes to Twitter and tries to look up me, Barnes Law, they won't be able to find me unless they're already following me.

=== He Is Very Findable (02:21) ===

[01:39:38]  I've disappeared from the searches of Twitter.
[01:39:40]  So I guess apparently they took offense to me suing them a couple of times.
[01:39:44]  I didn't follow Barnes.
[01:39:47]  How long did it take you to find him?
[01:39:49]  He's the first name that pops up if you Google Robert Barnes or Barnes Law.
[01:39:53]  Ah, Dan, but what if you forgot that you weren't connected to Wi-Fi?
[01:39:58]  Then it might take a little longer.
[01:39:59]  It might be harder to find him.
[01:40:00]  That's possible.
[01:40:02]  Could be tough.
[01:40:02]  But what he's saying is a lie.
[01:40:05]  He is very findable on Twitter.
[01:40:07]  Yeah.
[01:40:07]  Totally findable.
[01:40:08]  Absolutely.
[01:40:09]  Now, what's interesting about that is the argument that he's making, it proves the opposite.
[01:40:14]  Because he's saying that I can't be found on Twitter, oh, maybe they're mad at me because I sued them a few times.
[01:40:19]  You did sue them a few times, and you're easily findable.
[01:40:23]  That only serves to reinforce that Twitter is not vindictively attacking you in any way.
[01:40:30]  I can still find his Twitter super easily.
[01:40:32]  Anybody listening can find it so fucking easily.
[01:40:34]  It is not difficult, and he's someone who, if Jack was a petulant person who's just capriciously throwing people off who had wronged him.
[01:40:43]  Then, yeah, you would be number one.
[01:40:46]  You've sued him.
[01:40:47]  Yeah.
[01:40:47]  Also, he could.
[01:40:49]  And it wouldn't be censorship.
[01:40:50]  Sure.
[01:40:51]  Yeah.
[01:40:51]  He can do that.
[01:40:52]  Yeah.
[01:40:52]  That's fine.
[01:40:53]  I do like him being like, oh, that's one of the biggest lies that has happened in the last 20 years.
[01:40:59]  And now I'm about to tell one bigger.
[01:41:02]  I got this!
[01:41:03]  I don't think it's bigger, but, like, I would say how I would look at Jack's statement is more like...
[01:41:09]  I bet he meant that when he said it.
[01:41:11]  Yeah.
[01:41:11]  I bet that was the goal.
[01:41:13]  That was a goal.
[01:41:14]  Yes.
[01:41:14]  It was not a...
[01:41:15]  I think that when you're starting one of these tech startups...
[01:41:20]  You probably have a really different idea of what it is and what it can be than when there's millions of users.
[01:41:27]  Right, right, right.
[01:41:28]  I think it changes the complexion a great deal.
[01:41:30]  And even if you set out with the best of intentions with Twitter, like, we're going to allow free speech all over the place.
[01:41:36]  Right.
[01:41:36]  Once the logistics of what free speech entails and how people are going to abuse it, like, once that starts to become real...

=== Christianity And Power (07:20) ===

[01:41:45]  You can't live up to the goals you set out for yourself at the outset.
[01:41:49]  It's just not possible.
[01:41:50]  Stating an idea and then failing to live up to it for any number of circumstances does not mean you were lying about your ideal.
[01:42:00]  I still think Jack deserves criticism and sucks.
[01:42:03]  For sure.
[01:42:03]  But I don't think it's fair.
[01:42:05]  You know what?
[01:42:06]  Maybe he was lying.
[01:42:07]  I don't know.
[01:42:07]  That's entirely possible.
[01:42:08]  But I don't think it's fair to just assume he's lying.
[01:42:11]  In a court, you'd have to prove malice.
[01:42:12]  Sure.
[01:42:13]  Actual malice, which is a problem, and we're going to get rid of that.
[01:42:18]  So we get back to just Christian paranoia here in this next clip.
[01:42:23]  Stefan says some stuff that's just way out of line.
[01:42:26]  Why is there all of this?
[01:42:28]  Deliverance, you're kind of redneck clichés about the South because the South is pretty Christian.
[01:42:32]  Why is it that the coastal elites that generally are leftists or atheists or at least not Christians, why do they hate flyover countries so much?
[01:42:40]  Because that's where the churches are.
[01:42:42]  And when you sort of see this seething resentment towards Christianity, and of course Christianity historically has stood between the leftist collectivists.
[01:42:53]  And their thirst for state power.
[01:42:55]  I mean, that's straight out of the French Revolution.
[01:42:57]  First thing they did was kill the priests, kill the nuns, or rape and kill the nuns, and so on.
[01:43:02]  So those who seek power have a great deal of issue, and the Church and the cross and Christianity stands in the way of their thirst for power, which is to me, as Ann Coulter has characterized it, is pretty damn demonic, and it's kind of hard to argue against that.
[01:43:18]  And so once people process just how much hostility there is, not just towards Christians, but to those with an anti-status mentality, there's Christians, libertarians, and so on, and me and others, and once you kind of understand that, there are people who are forming a human chain between the predators and the power they seek.
[01:43:36]  Of course they're going to aim at people like us.
[01:43:38]  They can't take us on intellectually, so all they can do is create this fiery mode of negative language and hope that scares enough people away that we become irrelevant.
[01:43:46]  Absolutely.
[01:43:47]  Okay, why are you agreeing with that?
[01:43:49]  Barnes is just doing his yes and shit.
[01:43:51]  Barnes stopped listening.
[01:43:53]  Barnes totally stopped listening.
[01:43:54]  100% Barnes stopped listening.
[01:43:56]  Stephon was on a bit of a rant.
[01:43:58]  That was stupid.
[01:43:59]  Every time somebody tells me that Stephon Molyneux is smart, I think in some ways, yes.
[01:44:06]  In the same way that somebody who knows Elvish is good at languages.
[01:44:11]  They absolutely are.
[01:44:12]  You're smart, but that's...
[01:44:16]  You're living in a fictitious world.
[01:44:18]  In Lord of the Rings world, you are a fucking genius, Stefan Molyneux.
[01:44:23]  In the real world where we exist, you're an idiot.
[01:44:26]  You're so stupid.
[01:44:27]  I stand by my earlier comments about him being really smart in as much as he has a high level of mental processing power.
[01:44:36]  Yes, I agree with you.
[01:44:38]  He's technically smart, but functionally an idiot.
[01:44:43]  Yes.
[01:44:44]  That's kind of the way I'd look at it.
[01:44:45]  I guess the elvish thing works.
[01:44:47]  But we don't need to sit here and spend a lot of time, Jordan, rehashing how Christianity served as an excuse and a moral rationalization for colonialism, and the period where countless indigenous peoples were massacred and had their lands taken from them and their resources stolen, creating ripple effects that still plague much of the world to this day.
[01:45:03]  I don't know how Stefan defines tyranny or oppression, but if it doesn't include that experience, he's talking about something else.
[01:45:11]  When you look around the world and you try and figure out who some of the major not-good folks are who are running governments, you kind of get the sense that Stefan's notion that Christianity is somehow resistant to state oppression is, like, that's complete bullshit.
[01:45:24]  Nonsensical.
[01:45:24]  Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban is a Christian, though he's been a little bit wishy-washy about the religious stuff lately.
[01:45:31]  Duterte in the Philippines has identified as Christian.
[01:45:34]  These guys complain all day about South Africa, but their president, Cyril Ramaphosa, is a Christian.
[01:45:40]  Slobodan Milosa!
[01:45:43]  against humanity at the hague yeah there are plenty of world leaders who are up to no good who are christian but beating up on christianity isn't the point there are leaders of all religious persuasions who do bad things and can lead their countries down tyrannical roads it's not exclusive to any religion or sect when you completely ignore that this is an unrelated variable and continue to lionize christianity and demean other religions based on that falsehood it really demonstrates that you're not Really into the avoiding tyranny part of things.
[01:46:12]  It's more that you're soft-pitching a social theocracy.
[01:46:16]  Dan, do you know what is real tyranny?
[01:46:18]  What?
[01:46:19]  The Muslims in Jerusalem in 1000 AD.
[01:46:23]  That was real tyranny because they wouldn't just let the British thousands of miles away have it.
[01:46:29]  I think they would.
[01:46:30]  That's tyranny, Dan.
[01:46:31]  I think I could hear that argument.
[01:46:35]  So, more Christian anxiety here coming up in this next clip.
[01:46:39]  Look at the 1930s communist model.
[01:46:42]  They're trying to replicate that model, which is get involved, like control human relations and advertising departments as part of your popular front.
[01:46:49]  Infiltrate those institutions to help reshape people's thought prospects.
[01:46:53]  And as you look at all of that, they've mostly been wildly successful, the left has, at taking over almost every form of education that exists in the United States.
[01:47:02]  Almost other than religious parochial schools.
[01:47:04]  Taking control over almost all of TV and Hollywood and major books and almost all of the news industry.
[01:47:11]  With the sole exception really being the church as the last repository of traditional beliefs against their status.
[01:47:20]  It's a revolutionary mindset that's a dangerous mindset.
[01:47:24]  It's one that attacks tradition, attacks ideas simply because of their associations with either the past or with religious traditions, particularly Christian religious traditions, because they see them as their biggest obstacle to thought control.
[01:47:37]  The left really thinks if we could get rid of churches like the communists were able to do in the 1930s in places like Russia, though they weren't able to fully succeed, but partially succeed, that that's the best way to be able to have Complete thought control over how people think and perceive the world.
[01:47:53]  Ain't nobody trying to get rid of churches?
[01:47:56]  Are we adding Catholicism?
[01:48:00]  Are they adding Catholicism now?
[01:48:02]  Because they're from the same group of people who used to murder Catholics for the very act of being Catholic, right?
[01:48:08]  They're from that ideological history.
[01:48:11]  So now they're just throwing Catholics in willy-nilly, because fine.
[01:48:14]  I don't know if it's willy-nilly, it's just we need...
[01:48:17]  Shore up.
[01:48:18]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:48:19]  It's more like we can't afford to alienate Catholics now.
[01:48:22]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:48:23]  We used to have a great time alienating Catholics, but now it's all white hands on deck.
[01:48:27]  You know what I'm saying, Dan?
[01:48:28]  Now, I still hate the Pope.
[01:48:30]  Of course.
[01:48:30]  Well, he's evil.
[01:48:31]  He's a globalist.
[01:48:32]  But he's thousands of miles away.
[01:48:33]  Right.
[01:48:34]  All these Catholics are down the way.
[01:48:35]  We're down with Catholics, but the Pope is still a demon.
[01:48:37]  God, these people are so fucking stupid.
[01:48:39]  Why is it that they get to destroy the world?
[01:48:41]  I don't know.
[01:48:43]  Maybe it won't work.
[01:48:44]  No.
[01:48:45]  This is turned now.
[01:48:47]  Like, this episode and this conversation that Stefan is having with Robert Barnes has turned towards the natural place that it was destined to go.

=== Catholic Priests and Absurd Fault (09:20) ===

[01:48:56]  And that is, like, okay, I'm expressing that the real threats are the threats against white identity and Christianity.
[01:49:05]  Those are the things that I'm going to focus on with my law center.
[01:49:09]  That's all I want.
[01:49:10]  Or at least that's my guiding principles.
[01:49:13]  I am going to be the guy who you go to whenever you infringe on a gay person's rights and you feel like you should have.
[01:49:24]  Pro-straight white male first.
[01:49:29]  Pro-law second.
[01:49:30]  That seems to be the space he's carving out for himself.
[01:49:34]  And you can hear by how much this turns into a...
[01:49:37]  Christianity is the only thing that matters.
[01:49:40]  It's the last bulwark against tyranny.
[01:49:43]  All right, man.
[01:49:44]  So they get into some real stupid territory after this.
[01:49:50]  But it's still within this dissertation that's going on about how Christianity is under attack.
[01:49:57]  And, man, this is silly.
[01:49:59]  There are two areas where you have major pedophilia scandals.
[01:50:04]  One was aspects of the Catholic Church, but the other was disproportionately Hollywood.
[01:50:09]  But only one has been extensively investigated.
[01:50:12]  Only one has been extensively covered.
[01:50:15]  Only one has been extensively prosecuted, in the legal arena particularly, civil suits and criminal cases.
[01:50:20]  It's been the church has been the focus.
[01:50:22]  That's absurd.
[01:50:24]  There has been a great deal of focus on Hollywood.
[01:50:27]  Now, I would argue that one of the reasons that the Hollywood stuff has been a little bit more difficult, Is that people who come from the same places as Robert Barnes, maybe write for similar publications, have turned that into a weird satanic panic thing.
[01:50:44]  There's a lot of distractions with the Pizzagate stuff and all of that world that is taken away from any kind of real...
[01:50:53]  Focus on this, and it creates distractions, and it creates expectations that can't be lived up to.
[01:50:59]  It creates a false version that makes it look like real investigations or cover-ups.
[01:51:05]  And that isn't the media's fault.
[01:51:08]  That's your side's fault.
[01:51:10]  That's Alex and his associates' fault.
[01:51:12]  That is something that you will never be able to achieve.
[01:51:15]  The idea that everybody is involved in a massive...
[01:51:21]  Blood drinking, child sacrifice party.
[01:51:24]  That is not something you're going to ever prove.
[01:51:27]  And because you can't, you'll always look at it as like, well, they never really got to the bottom of it.
[01:51:32]  And you know what they do with the Catholic Church?
[01:51:34]  Because they only want to take down the church.
[01:51:37]  It's not about protecting kids.
[01:51:39]  It's about attacking Christianity.
[01:51:41]  I find it very offensive.
[01:51:48]  Especially for these people to grift on the Catholic Church.
[01:51:51]  Sure.
[01:51:53]  I mean, grift about the Catholic Church's immeasurable number of abuses over an incomprehensible length of time.
[01:52:03]  Yeah.
[01:52:04]  Not least of which because that's not a thing that can be partisan.
[01:52:10]  You can't do that.
[01:52:12]  Well, it shouldn't be.
[01:52:14]  You know, it's like, and it doesn't even, like, what are you talking about?
[01:52:18]  White religious people are the, like, you're attacking, I hate, I hate, it doesn't make any sense from anybody.
[01:52:25]  Nope.
[01:52:26]  It's awful.
[01:52:26]  If you want it to make less sense, Robert Barnes here has an example of something that shows the distinction between how people react to Hollywood and to the priests in the Catholic Church.
[01:52:40]  And I would say this is one of the more ludicrous comparisons I've ever heard.
[01:52:44]  Try to reinstate people like the director, James Gunn, who got put back in, even though he made comedic jokes that normally would have been totally inappropriate if he had been a Catholic priest.
[01:52:54]  So the amazing dynamic of the inconsistency and hypocrisy and duplicity revealed that their true agenda was not the protection of children.
[01:53:02]  Ah, yes.
[01:53:03]  What if James Gunn was a Catholic priest and he took to Twitter to make horrible jokes?
[01:53:08]  Really?
[01:53:08]  Ah, yes.
[01:53:09]  Really?
[01:53:10]  That's his smoking gun right there.
[01:53:13]  I mean...
[01:53:13]  It's a little weak.
[01:53:14]  That is dumb bullshit, Barnes.
[01:53:18]  Barnes, I'm taking away all the good works I have ever exhorted you for.
[01:53:23]  Bad work, Barnes.
[01:53:24]  Bad work, Barnes.
[01:53:25]  What if James Gunn was a priest?
[01:53:27]  He would have been treated differently if he was a fucking priest.
[01:53:31]  Good work, Barnes.
[01:53:33]  And that was a sarcastic good work, Barnes.
[01:53:35]  Also, I will say that James Gunn's situation is kind of unanalogous.
[01:53:42]  No one has ever had a priest in the Catholic Church scandal where they tweeted something fucked up.
[01:53:48]  Right.
[01:53:49]  That's not been the case.
[01:53:51]  Yeah.
[01:53:51]  You can't really draw parallels between them.
[01:53:53]  You show me that, the Catholic priest who tweets something really fucked up, and then we'll talk.
[01:53:59]  Then we'll talk about how the reactions are different.
[01:54:01]  You know what?
[01:54:02]  Also, show me not just the Catholic priest who fucked up and tweeted something weird, but the Catholic priest who fucked up and tweeted something ten years ago that was unearthed by a right-wing fucking lunatic asshole trying to take him down specifically as a goddamn troll operation, then blown out of proportion.
[01:54:20]  The whole thing.
[01:54:21]  The whole thing.
[01:54:22]  Fair enough.
[01:54:23]  Give me one Catholic priest situation like that.
[01:54:25]  Then we can gauge reactions and how they're different.
[01:54:27]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:54:28]  So, Barnes believes some interesting things about the First Amendment.
[01:54:33]  Get rid of it?
[01:54:34]  No, he seems to be for it.
[01:54:36]  But he has a slightly different interpretation of it than I think most people do.
[01:54:40]  Big media and big tech platforms using that power.
[01:54:44]  of those platforms to target certain people really solely because of their belief systems, to suppress and censor speech, thought, and ideas, and mostly not to prevent me or you from talking as preventing the audience from hearing this.
[01:54:57]  That's what free speech is really all about, is protecting the audience's rights and respecting the audience's rational capacity to make good decisions and good judgments, their moral capacity to make good decisions and good judgments.
[01:55:10]  That's what the left doesn't trust.
[01:55:11]  It doesn't trust the ordinary person, the ordinary human being's ability of thought and conscience to process information to make good and wise decisions.
[01:55:20]  That's why they have to suppress and censor speech.
[01:55:22]  So he believes, it appears, that the First Amendment entitles you to an audience.
[01:55:28]  Yes.
[01:55:28]  Which is absurd.
[01:55:30]  No, it does.
[01:55:30]  No, that's crazy.
[01:55:32]  It's the rights.
[01:55:33]  You're infringing on the rights of the audience.
[01:55:35]  Right.
[01:55:36]  Which I am, of course, entitled to.
[01:55:38]  Right, but if you use the Alex Jones example, the audience isn't affected.
[01:55:43]  Alex, you can still find wherever you want.
[01:55:44]  So even under his broad definition of the First Amendment, Alex is not being oppressed at all.
[01:55:51]  He has his website.
[01:55:52]  You can still find his shit wherever you want.
[01:55:55]  It's almost like Barnes doesn't respect the audience to go out and find it on their own.
[01:56:02]  Wow, interesting.
[01:56:03]  It's almost like Barnes is the one who disrespects his audience by saying that they're absolutely incapable of Googling Alex Jones and Infowars.com.
[01:56:13]  Right.
[01:56:14]  And the other problem that I have is this idea of, like, you know, they don't trust the audience to make a decision, hear these things and make a decision.
[01:56:23]  Like, you know, the classic example of, like, the limitation of free speech is you can't yell fire in a crowded building.
[01:56:28]  Of course.
[01:56:28]  Right?
[01:56:29]  His version of it would be, you can yell fire.
[01:56:32]  Because if you get in trouble for yelling fire in a crowded building, what you're doing is you're not trusting the other people in that building to make a sound moral decision about whether or not there's a fire.
[01:56:41]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:56:42]  Right?
[01:56:43]  The audience there is capable of knowing instantaneously when hearing fire.
[01:56:50]  Whether or not there is or is not a fire day.
[01:56:53]  Right, right.
[01:56:53]  If I don't smell fire, I'm not going to move from my seat, asshole.
[01:56:57]  You were showing a rank distrust and disrespect to the people in that theater if you get the person in trouble just for yelling fire.
[01:57:06]  All he did was try and trick hundreds of people into doing something silly.
[01:57:11]  I don't understand.
[01:57:12]  What he's putting on people is absurd.
[01:57:15]  Yeah.
[01:57:18]  I don't even know how to describe it.
[01:57:20]  It's just such a strange way to look at things.
[01:57:22]  It is such a fascinating...
[01:57:24]  It doesn't matter what I do.
[01:57:27]  You must respond.
[01:57:28]  Yes, I know.
[01:57:30]  And also the fire in a crowded theater thing is a really interesting analogy when you actually apply it to what he's saying.
[01:57:39]  In a way, I don't trust these people's instant reaction to this guy screaming fire.
[01:57:48]  That guy could be a bad actor.
[01:57:50]  He could be a bad faith actor.
[01:57:52]  And in a split second, he is influencing your emotional behavior, bypassing your rational thought processes, and influencing you to act in a way that is detrimental to your own benefit.

=== Controversial Claims About Alex (15:18) ===

[01:58:09]  Well, that's what Barnes is.
[01:58:11]  And that's what he's doing.
[01:58:13]  Well, it's on you to make a sound, rational decision.
[01:58:16]  Whatever.
[01:58:17]  It's almost like Barnes is daring beyond...
[01:58:19]  I dare you to disagree with me!
[01:58:22]  I don't necessarily agree.
[01:58:23]  So, at this point, they get into talking about Alex and his specific suit.
[01:58:28]  And Barnes has some real stupid things to say about it.
[01:58:31]  His main argument seems to be that this is like a focused attack and using Alex as an example because what they're doing is they're deplatforming him and then also defaming him.
[01:58:42]  And when they defame him, he's not able to respond to the defamation because he's been deplatformed.
[01:58:48]  This is silly.
[01:58:50]  And I know it's silly because of the examples that he uses.
[01:58:54]  Okay.
[01:58:54]  But they're doing it in parallel, deplatforming and defamation, and doing it both ways.
[01:59:00]  They're not only, when they deplatformed him...
[01:59:02]  They deprived him of his ability to fight back in the court of public opinion on those public platforms.
[01:59:07]  Not a right.
[01:59:07]  They started lying about him in the craziest ways.
[01:59:10]  They said that he had child porn.
[01:59:12]  Completely false.
[01:59:12]  Said he sent child porn to people's families.
[01:59:14]  Totally false.
[01:59:15]  Said he sent child porn to lawyers.
[01:59:17]  Totally false.
[01:59:17]  All of it was totally false.
[01:59:18]  He had actually been the victim of somebody trying to plant it on his servers of people who hate him.
[01:59:23]  So here's a guy who's a victim of an assault.
[01:59:26]  And this was confirmed by the FBI, by the way.
[01:59:29]  This is not just an opinion.
[01:59:31]  If I remember rightly, correct me where I go astray, of course, but there were unopened emails in defunct or unchecked email accounts, and if I understand it correctly, they were turned over as part of discovery, but this was not as it was portrayed.
[01:59:47]  But as you point out, he can't really fight back because he's been silenced.
[01:59:51]  Exactly.
[01:59:52]  So they're able to lie about him with impunity.
[01:59:54]  Here's the thing.
[01:59:54]  You know how Stefan knows these things?
[01:59:56]  Because it was fucking reported.
[01:59:59]  No one was reporting the story that Alex sent these people child porn for shits and giggles.
[02:00:05]  How did he get that information?
[02:00:06]  That isn't how the media covered this.
[02:00:08]  That's insider information, Dan.
[02:00:10]  If you're complaining about people misunderstanding the story that was correctly reported in the New York Times and Washington Post, then I don't know what to do.
[02:00:19]  I don't know what to do for you.
[02:00:20]  Your complaint is that people on Twitter are dumb.
[02:00:23]  All right?
[02:00:24]  Yes, that is the case.
[02:00:26]  But if you're trying to, as Stefan is doing, and as Robert Barnes is presenting, they're presenting the idea that the media lied about this situation.
[02:00:38]  And that is not true.
[02:00:40]  I've read a bunch of articles about that situation because we had to cover it on this show, and all of them were clear about the circumstances.
[02:00:48]  They were clear that the FBI had been involved and had said that it does not appear that Alex was aware of it.
[02:00:55]  These were unopened.
[02:00:56]  There was no culpability that was assigned to Alex Jones.
[02:00:59]  At best.
[02:01:01]  I don't even know if this was in any of the articles or just what I took away from it.
[02:01:05]  The criticism that could be launched is, how the fuck did he not look at what he was turning over to Discovery?
[02:01:11]  That is the sort of criticism that could be made.
[02:01:14]  This is a sloppy handling of a legal case.
[02:01:16]  That is what could be taken from it.
[02:01:19]  If you want to talk about the interpretations that people could have of whatever someone might walk away from it if they didn't read the whole article, well, then you're just talking about Alex's business model.
[02:01:32]  It's almost like you're...
[02:01:34]  Not trusting the audience to read the entire article.
[02:01:39]  Man, that's interesting.
[02:01:41]  Infringing upon their free speech rights.
[02:01:43]  I guess so.
[02:01:44]  So that's his example here of Alex being defamed and deplatformed.
[02:01:49]  He wasn't defamed.
[02:01:50]  The reports that I've read were very clear about the situation.
[02:01:55]  And if he was being defamed, then him being on Twitter isn't going to help.
[02:01:59]  He needs to sue those people.
[02:02:01]  It doesn't matter.
[02:02:04]  Anyway.
[02:02:05]  I love the such, like, it's so stupid for him to be like, and no, there's no way for this information to get out that he didn't actually, the media controls him and they've silenced him, so there's no way that anybody could get that information out.
[02:02:20]  Okay, so it's, let me repeat back to you exactly what I read.
[02:02:25]  Quoting from the Washington Post.
[02:02:27]  Yeah, Stefan Molyneux comes in with information that he has about the case that he's read and reporting.
[02:02:32]  Yeah.
[02:02:33]  So stupid.
[02:02:34]  So there's other lies that the media has defamed Alex about.
[02:02:37]  Sure.
[02:02:38]  There are people that said he lost a lawsuit that had nothing to do with it.
[02:02:40]  There are people that said he published a book that had nothing to do with it.
[02:02:43]  There are people that said he had anti-Semitic statements that he never did.
[02:02:46]  He made a reference to a lawyer being a white Jew lawyer.
[02:02:49]  And they refer to that, they changed that to white Jew lawyer.
[02:02:52]  It had nothing to do with it.
[02:02:53]  The guy wasn't even Jewish.
[02:02:54]  There was no anti-Semitism at all.
[02:02:56]  So the thing about Alex losing a lawsuit and writing the book No One Died at Sandy Hook was a complete fuck-up by, I think it was Market Watch, I believe it was the website.
[02:03:05]  We've discussed this already, and Alex would be right to get in touch with them and insist that they retract and apologize.
[02:03:10]  However, as we've seen, Alex pretends that it was the AP who put that headline out and has said over and over again he's contacted the AP and they stand by it.
[02:03:18]  They won't retract it.
[02:03:20]  And this is because they didn't write it and didn't publish it.
[02:03:23]  A completely different website did.
[02:03:25]  This is what Alex is grandstanding about suing the Associated Press about earlier in the episode, which is never going to fly, and Barnes fucking knows that.
[02:03:32]  This is a publicity stunt, and you can tell because there's a clear problem that is real, and they're attacking the straw man.
[02:03:39]  The problem is super easy to resolve.
[02:03:41]  All you have to do is contact Market Watch, and if they refuse to correct it, then you sue them.
[02:03:46]  If all you do is focus on the Associated Press, you're not interested in the correction.
[02:03:50]  You're not interested in the real problem.
[02:03:52]  You're interested in pretending that the largest news outlet in the United States is slandering you.
[02:03:56]  And the real reason to do that is to elevate and exaggerate your own victimhood.
[02:04:01]  Mark my words, that lawsuit will never happen.
[02:04:04]  Because any lawyer Alex could possibly have would know that it would be thrown out immediately and possibly even open up avenues for fines for a frivolous or malicious filing of a suit.
[02:04:15]  Like, it's absolutely ridiculous.
[02:04:17]  Not if you are working for the Free America Law Center.
[02:04:22]  That lawsuit is coming, baby.
[02:04:23]  I don't know.
[02:04:24]  I still think even Barnes would know, like, this opens up potential sanctions.
[02:04:28]  That's why he hires shittier lawyers.
[02:04:31]  As for the white shoe boy thing, I was always against the reading of Alex's words as Jew boy.
[02:04:37]  But also, Alex was really drunk when he said that, and he was talking super unclearly in that rant.
[02:04:43]  I can totally understand how someone could hear Jew boy in there, but I think if you're familiar enough with Alex's career and style, you would know he wouldn't throw around stuff like that.
[02:04:52]  He has decades under his belt of walking a very fine line, and even he's aware that calling someone Jew boy is going to raise more questions about his rhetoric than he wants asked.
[02:05:01]  That's one of those things where I understand why people would think, oh, him being drunk means he's more likely to throw out a slur than otherwise.
[02:05:13]  But at the same time, performing-wise, I'm pretty sure that this is almost consistent across the board.
[02:05:25]  There's a certain amount of muscle memory that takes over even if you're drunk.
[02:05:28]  Like, I've been drunk before, and then I walk up on stage and do the same set that I normally do sober.
[02:05:35]  It's just muscle memory.
[02:05:37]  And then you walk down.
[02:05:39]  And you're back to being drunk again.
[02:05:41]  Which is why I don't think that even if Alex is really drunk, he's going to forget all of those performance...
[02:05:49]  Sure, but there's a difference between that, like going in autopilot or whatever, the performance state, and then dealing with chaos while you're performing.
[02:05:59]  Like, if you started getting heckled, you might end up, the drunkenness might come back.
[02:06:04]  That's possible.
[02:06:05]  That's a good question.
[02:06:06]  And so, I don't know if that works as well as it might feel like it for Alex's drunken ranting, but I still, even in his intoxicated state, I still think he knows better.
[02:06:17]  Like, he's very used to knowing where approximate lines are.
[02:06:21]  He tests those lines before he crosses them a lot of the time.
[02:06:24]  Like, we're seeing in 2013...
[02:06:26]  There's a lot of calling everybody else actors before he jumps in and starts doing the Sandy Hook actor stuff.
[02:06:32]  That's testing a line.
[02:06:34]  That's like towing up to it and seeing how it feels before he commits to it.
[02:06:39]  He would never just drunkenly yell, this guy's a Jew boy.
[02:06:43]  I just don't feel like it's in his character, even if there is a ton of anti-Semitism in his worldview.
[02:06:48]  For sure.
[02:06:49]  I just don't think it makes sense.
[02:06:51]  The transcripts that the plaintiffs made of that rant did say Jew Boy, but even critics of Alex like Will Summer tweeted that that wasn't what he said.
[02:07:00]  My overall feeling about this is that the transcription folks were incorrect, but I don't think it came from a place of malice or trying to defame Alex.
[02:07:07]  I think Alex was fucking wasted, screaming about the plaintiff's lawyer and putting a million-dollar bounty on his head, and it would be easy to make the mistake in the transcription if you're not really all that familiar with Alex.
[02:07:19]  Especially considering white shoe boy isn't a super well-known term.
[02:07:23]  Yeah.
[02:07:23]  That's not a slang insult that gets thrown around by most people.
[02:07:27]  So I don't know if it's on the tip of a lot of people's tongues.
[02:07:31]  Yeah.
[02:07:31]  So you're doing the transcript.
[02:07:32]  You're like, I mean, he's drunk.
[02:07:34]  He's kind of slurring.
[02:07:35]  Yeah.
[02:07:36]  You don't know what white shoe boy means.
[02:07:38]  Because why would you?
[02:07:39]  Right.
[02:07:39]  I still don't know what it means.
[02:07:41]  It means like an Ivy League upper crust kind of...
[02:07:46]  I don't know, Richie.
[02:07:47]  Yeah.
[02:07:48]  So anyway, we get back to Barnes defending Alex in the court of public opinion, if you will, on Stefan Molyneux's show.
[02:07:55]  So he is the tip of the spear for lawfare as the victim and target of big media, big tech collusion to be able to completely suppress and censor him.
[02:08:04]  And the reason is because he is the most independent media voice out there.
[02:08:09]  People don't have to agree with them, but they always know I'm going to get an independent perspective when I listen to Alex Jones.
[02:08:14]  Not only that, I'm going to get a perspective I likely don't hear almost anywhere else.
[02:08:17]  I'm going to get information I don't hear from anywhere else.
[02:08:20]  And I, the audience, should have the power and the choice to decide whether I agree with it or don't, whether I like it or don't.
[02:08:26]  Or whether I research it or don't.
[02:08:27]  Smash cut to a 10-hour montage of Alex selling Ted Anderson's gold.
[02:08:32]  No, shit.
[02:08:32]  Matched up with, right before it, saying there's going to be a financial collapse immediately.
[02:08:38]  Good God.
[02:08:39]  Yeah.
[02:08:39]  Fuck off.
[02:08:40]  Yeah.
[02:08:40]  I love this idea that, like, they're trying to, like, package Alex as this, like, just rogue, independent media guy who's, like, get the fuck out of here.
[02:08:50]  Man.
[02:08:51]  I don't, like, is...
[02:08:53]  I don't know, obviously, because I'm not in legal circles, but is lawfare thrown around a lot?
[02:08:59]  I think it's a term that's used, yeah.
[02:09:01]  I've encountered it in my looking into things.
[02:09:03]  Yeah, because I'm not stoked about it.
[02:09:05]  That's not how you...
[02:09:07]  You know what?
[02:09:07]  It's a word that Barnes uses a lot, and I've noticed from listening to a bit of him that he's also one of these guys who likes to speak in alliteration and rhymes.
[02:09:15]  He loves that.
[02:09:17]  He says lies and libels all the fucking time.
[02:09:20]  All the time?
[02:09:20]  What a dick.
[02:09:21]  Whatever he says, either word, it's...
[02:09:22]  Both.
[02:09:23]  Yeah.
[02:09:23]  No, and it's just more like that kind of aggressive, like, we're always fighting a war.
[02:09:31]  Everything is a war.
[02:09:33]  Right.
[02:09:33]  Every word needs to be about war.
[02:09:35]  So you should be like, instead of lawfare, it should be law war.
[02:09:38]  Yeah.
[02:09:39]  Instead of info wars, it should be info law wars.
[02:09:42]  Yeah.
[02:09:42]  So in this next clip, it just gets grandiose about Alex's struggle, and I think it's a little silly.
[02:09:50]  I've been proud to be a part of...
[02:09:53]  We're going to be bringing legal actions of all kinds to assert his free speech and free press rights, and his audience has been behind him.
[02:10:03]  But his cases will likely shape the future of free speech and free press in America.
[02:10:09]  Ultimately, some of them will end up in the U.S. Supreme Court, and that's why it's so important that he have the best representation, the best legal arguments made, the best offenses presented, because ultimately, we are Alex Jones.
[02:10:22]  Because that's how the law is going to treat us.
[02:10:24]  And that's how big tech and big media will try to treat us in the future.
[02:10:28]  I would say okay.
[02:10:30]  Yeah.
[02:10:30]  I would say fine.
[02:10:32]  I don't think that there's anything wrong with media and big tech treating me like Alex Jones.
[02:10:37]  I'm 100% for it, in fact.
[02:10:39]  From where I'm sitting, he's...
[02:10:42]  You know, getting the consequences of his actions.
[02:10:45]  If I directly inspire harassment to go on for years and years and years, I think I'd be fine if somebody was like, yeah, you're going to need to be punished for that.
[02:10:58]  And honestly, he's lucky that that's the only lawsuit that he's facing.
[02:11:01]  No kidding.
[02:11:02]  I mean, it's not.
[02:11:03]  But what I mean more is he's lucky that there's not a hundred more.
[02:11:07]  Because his style, his broadcast, what he does, Largely depends on slandering people.
[02:11:16]  Not suing, yeah.
[02:11:16]  Like, he's just straight up constantly lying about people and lying about things.
[02:11:21]  Lying about things is a great thing that doesn't get you sued.
[02:11:24]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:11:26]  That's a good point.
[02:11:27]  Or lying about dead people who, you know, I guess they can't really sue you.
[02:11:31]  So I think that when I look at all this, what I come away from it with is a large sense of suspicion.
[02:11:39]  And I don't think that, like...
[02:11:41]  I don't think that it's even possible at this point to know what Barnes' game is.
[02:11:46]  But there's strong indications that he's done some marquee cases in the past.
[02:11:53]  He was Wesley Snipes' lawyer in that tax thing.
[02:11:56]  He's tried to latch on to a lot of these right-wing grifters.
[02:12:00]  And I think that this case, along with the Covington case, he's trying to really make a name for himself.
[02:12:09]  the Free America Law Center.
[02:12:11]  Right.
[02:12:11]  It's entirely possible that it's just a scam.
[02:12:17]  It's entirely possible that he believes that these other conservative, libertarian, Christian public law offerings are not catered to the specific needs that he has.
[02:12:31]  And if he presented his argument as these things do exist, but they're not worth...
[02:12:36]  Working in the direction I want them to, so we want to create our own niche thing.
[02:12:41]  I would find that argument a little bit more honest.
[02:12:44]  Since he's not presenting it like that, and all of this is just, we don't have anything in the SPLC and ACLU running over us, that duplicitous framing of it makes me really worried about what the real intentions are.
[02:12:57]  So, all I can do is take the pieces of information that are available to me and try and make sense of them.

=== Barnes: The Creep Factor (03:06) ===

[02:13:05]  And this last clip doesn't help anything.
[02:13:09]  Thanks a lot, Robert.
[02:13:10]  A great deal of pleasure to share.
[02:13:12]  Absolutely.
[02:13:13]  Proud and privileged to be on.
[02:13:14]  He's proud and privileged to be interviewed by Stefan Molyneux, someone who is a creep of the highest order and a self-described empiricist who supports white nationalism.
[02:13:29]  So I just don't see a way around looking at this in the context that...
[02:13:35]  Barnes is offering me.
[02:13:37]  I'm not trying to malign him in any way.
[02:13:43]  I'm looking at his actions, comparing them to someone who did very similar things in the past, and also looking at the ways in which he sees fit to publicize his venture.
[02:13:55]  He's willing to, you know, he promotes it on Alex's show, but we'll sit down with Stefan Molyneux and talk about it for an hour in a way that drifts Deeply into Christian identity and white identity ideas.
[02:14:09]  That, to me, is not unimportant.
[02:14:13]  No.
[02:14:14]  No.
[02:14:15]  I would say, so far, every feel and interaction and every time I've heard anything about him and every time I've heard his voice, Barnes creeps me out.
[02:14:28]  And he is...
[02:14:30]  He's running something on someone always.
[02:14:33]  I don't think he's ever...
[02:14:34]  I've never heard him in any situation where I feel like he was genuine.
[02:14:38]  On the up and up?
[02:14:39]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:14:40]  Everything has always been like, you're running some game on somebody sometime right now.
[02:14:44]  Yeah.
[02:14:45]  Like, I just don't even know who it is.
[02:14:46]  Yeah, that is definitely how I feel.
[02:14:49]  And I think that a lot of our indications of him trying to take over Infowars could easily be actually this.
[02:14:57]  Yeah.
[02:14:57]  Like, it could be easily explained by him trying to set up this counter to the SPLC.
[02:15:04]  Yeah, now that we've heard about that, that makes a lot more sense than him trying to run his own radio station.
[02:15:09]  Sure.
[02:15:10]  And there's so many people now who are like, tech is starting to take some of these things more seriously.
[02:15:17]  And there are a lot of people who have, like, fascist outlets.
[02:15:21]  A lot of people who have white supremacist outlets that are going to be needing a lawyer.
[02:15:25]  Yep.
[02:15:26]  And so creating a counter SPLC that caters to people who are of that ilk, it does seem like it could be a pretty profitable venture.
[02:15:35]  So that's why I don't exclude the idea that he's just scamming.
[02:15:39]  Yeah.
[02:15:44]  So anyway, this took me quite off the path from actually looking at the fifth.
[02:15:48]  I understand that Freeway Rick Ross was on the show, and I didn't listen to that.

=== Wednesday Return (01:46) ===

[02:15:54]  But I guess since we went down this road a little bit, maybe we should stay in the present for Wednesday.
[02:16:01]  We'll see.
[02:16:01]  Yeah.
[02:16:02]  Either way, we'll be back on Wednesday.
[02:16:03]  Indeed we will.
[02:16:04]  Until then, Dan.
[02:16:05]  We have a website.
[02:16:06]  We do have a website.
[02:16:07]  It's knowledgefight.com.
[02:16:08]  And also we are on some other social media channels.
[02:16:11]  We're on Twitter.
[02:16:11]  Yeah, at GoToBedJordan and at Knowledge underscore Fight.
[02:16:14]  Yes, and Barnes Law.
[02:16:16]  Yeah, you can look for it and it will appear.
[02:16:19]  Unless you are not connected to Wi-Fi, in which case it will not appear.
[02:16:22]  That is really important.
[02:16:24]  We're also on Facebook.
[02:16:24]  We are, and if you want to download our podcast, you can go to iTunes, you can go to anywhere, you can leave a review, that would be lovely.
[02:16:32]  True.
[02:16:32]  The best place to get it, though?
[02:16:34]  If you go to your local convenience store, and I'm not going to buzzmark it for any specific one.
[02:16:40]  Right.
[02:16:40]  It's the one where a racist yells at you.
[02:16:43]  Yes, exactly.
[02:16:44]  If you're a minority.
[02:16:44]  That's the most important part.
[02:16:46]  Yes.
[02:16:47]  Go there.
[02:16:48]  Look for the third can.
[02:16:50]  You're going to see the first can of Coca-Cola and those little things.
[02:16:53]  You're going to want to grab it.
[02:16:54]  It's not in there.
[02:16:56]  Two behind it.
[02:16:57]  Right.
[02:16:57]  You will be able to get our podcast from that can of Coca-Cola.
[02:17:00]  There will be a flash drive inside it.
[02:17:02]  Absolutely.
[02:17:02]  Always.
[02:17:03]  Now, I would like to make a recommendation for a future one of these.
[02:17:06]  Okay.
[02:17:07]  All right.
[02:17:08]  Write this down.
[02:17:09]  Are we taking pitches now?
[02:17:10]  Work in King's Cake.
[02:17:11]  I think that's a good one.
[02:17:13]  Okay.
[02:17:13]  Flash drive in a King's Cake.
[02:17:15]  Flash drive in a King's Cake.
[02:17:16]  All right.
[02:17:17]  It has to be Mardi Gras.
[02:17:18]  Ooh, write that down.
[02:17:19]  Save it for February.
[02:17:20]  Mardi Gras.
[02:17:21]  Gotcha.
[02:17:21]  Mardi Gras, February.
[02:17:23]  All right, we'll be back.
[02:17:24]  But until then, I'm Neo.
[02:17:26]  I'm Leo.
[02:17:27]  I'm DCX Clark.
[02:17:28]  I am the Jesus Lizard.
[02:17:30]  Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
[02:17:32]  Thanks for holding.
[02:17:34]  Hello, Alex.
[02:17:35]  I'm a first-time caller.
[02:17:36]  I'm a huge fan.
[02:17:37]  I love your work.