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Nov. 29, 2022 - Radio Renaissance - Jared Taylor
01:02:45
How to Achieve ‘Disengagement’

Jared Taylor talks with AmRen contributor Joseph Kay about how to bring about peaceful racial separation.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this special edition of Radio Renaissance.
I'm Jared Taylor with American Renaissance, and I have the great privilege and honor of having in the studio with me none other than Joseph Kaye, a frequent contributor to American Renaissance.
His articles are always full of remarkable insights, much wit, and wisdom for young and old.
I'm delighted to have you with me, Mr. Kay, and I believe the subject for today is a term that you are popularizing, namely disengagement.
Some of us have talked about separation of the races.
But separation does have a potentially coercive ring to it, whereas disengagement sounds mutual.
So I'd like to talk about some of the historical attempts at disengagement, some successful, and some of the current efforts that we might encourage.
So, welcome.
One of the reasons I've been thinking about this is the recent statements by David Banks.
I believe you've been following him.
Somewhat.
His name pops up, and I've always had a strong interest in school policy, and having been a student in New York City schools when the great transformation began, I've had a certain amount of first-hand experience, which has really scarred my brain.
Well, let's point out that David Banks is now the chancellor of the schools, and he is a black gentleman.
And yes, you say it scarred your brain.
Well, the New York City schools are continuing to scar many brains.
But to me, the remarkable thing about David Banks is that unlike the previous administration of New York under Bill de Blasio, who was encouraging integration, David Banks is not.
He has been interviewed recently.
There was a profile of him in the Washington Post in which he pointed out that no one ever talks to him about integration.
The schools are notoriously segregated.
And I think whites are a rather small minority.
Only about 15 to 20 percent of the school population is white.
And the blacks and Hispanics, no one wants necessarily to be sitting next to a white student.
They just want better schools.
What an idea!
And he apparently is rolling back some of the attempts that Bill de Blasio had made to encourage integration.
One of which is they had, there were some number of schools that had certain entrance requirements.
These were not the famous Bronx Science and Stuyvesant.
These were more local schools.
Well, the Bronx Science, Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Tech standards are state law.
Yes, that's right.
Very, very difficult to change.
The others are city rules.
City rules are much more manageable in the city.
But apparently, Bill de Blasio, he had been encouraging schools to get rid of these requirements because, oddly enough, whenever you have demanding requirements, black people are less likely to meet them.
But now, David Banks says, hey, put in all the requirements you like.
I find that profoundly encouraging, that he seems to see that there is absolutely no attraction in itself for mixing the races.
Well, I would say, put into larger context, that he's simply acknowledging the reality of human nature.
Human beings are not wired into embracing diversity, inclusion, and all of the rest.
If they were, they have long exited the gene pool.
One can only imagine life millennia ago if tribes went around collecting different types of people to bring them into the mainstream of their society.
They would have long disappeared.
In fact, I think it's not even a question of speculation.
Homogeneity is the nature of human existence and it is a strength.
I mean, in military battles, for example, You're better off fighting with all your relatives than fighting with a ragtag army.
Fighting side by side with your relatives.
Cousin to cousin is the strength of an army.
Blood is thicker than water.
And when you're fighting hand to hand, blood really counts.
Well, I understand that that was one of the strengths of the German Army, is that many divisions were put together with people from the same neighborhood.
That was confirmed after the war.
There was a major study called the American Soldier.
Massive study done by leading sociologists, most of whom from the University of Chicago.
And they raised that exact question.
What was it about the German Army that made it so effective?
And it was actually quite easy to measure the effectiveness By the amount of gunfire that came from a position, okay?
The Germans were well-known for their enthusiasm for shooting and defending positions.
And it came out that the units they had built, whether it was gun units, tank units, various units, people all came from the same area.
So, if you were a coward, people would know it.
And not only would the people in your unit know it, but the people back home would know it.
Yes.
at least had long family associations.
That's right.
The United States on the other hand, which was reflected in movies,
had what was called a buddy system.
So the typical American unit, I remember seeing these in the movies when I was a kid,
you had a guy named Tex, and he had a buddy named Brooklyn.
There was another guy from somewhere else.
And they represented this sort of collection of people,
all of whom were various stereotypes.
There was a farmer and a big city guy and all that sort of stuff.
They were not very effective fighting units, but the advantage of them, okay, Was that you can replace lost components with no loss of efficiency.
Efficiency was not high, but there was an endless supply of parts for it.
Well, in the Civil War, on both sides, they had musters and units by state, the Massachusetts Division or the Georgia Division, and all of that worked very well at the time, but later on, the Army became Something that was a kind of deliberate melting pot.
They tried to get people more homogeneous by mixing them up, but no.
If when push comes to shove, you want to be in a foxhole with somebody that you can trust, and somebody you can trust is somebody who looks like you, and is from the same village, same area, that's going to make trustworthiness all that much greater.
But yes, this whole notion that we're all going to hold hands and sing Kumbaya is something that is increasingly, obviously, futile.
Something else that caught my interest was recent news about something called the Women of Color Healing Retreat.
Perhaps you're aware of this, perhaps not.
It's run by someone by the name of Andrea X.
And Andrea X is following in the long line of the Malcolm X tradition.
They say that she, I don't know what she had as a last name, but Malcolm X's last name was Little.
And he considered this a enslaver name.
And he didn't know what his ancient African name was, and so instead he used the X. Some people refer to him as Malcolm X on account of that, as if he were royalty.
But Andrea X, she has a Costa Rican retreat that she has established for women of color, specifically blacks, it's all black, to escape from white people.
And she is, she moved to Brooklyn to create this place in 2014.
And Vice, you know, they do these funny documentaries on strange parts of the world.
Vice followed them around for a few days and recorded some of the people talking about why they were doing this.
And Andrea told the reporter that, I decided one day to just eliminate white people from my life.
And ever since then, my life has been way more breezy.
Way more breezy.
I'm not necessarily convinced that breezy would be my goal, but to each his own.
And when Vice did the documentary, one of the participants there says, if you supported Trump, she's talking about white people, I can't trust you on any level.
I can't be your friend.
So that, what's that, about 70 million people in the United States.
So this is a woman of color who just doesn't want to be around anybody who voted for Trump.
Probably people who didn't vote for Trump that she would just trust either just because they were melanin deprived.
But in any case, for $3,333, you can spend 10 days in this paradise where you are on the beach and lush jungle and they do yoga and they sit in a circle and hold hands and chant ancient Kemetic slogans and they're happy, happy, happy because you and I are not there.
If you look around at the resort industry, one of the most famous industries was the Catskills.
In New York's, basically from the, I would say the 40s into maybe the early 60s, there were hundreds and hundreds of hotels there.
And when people always associate the Catskills with Jewish resorts, but that's not quite complete.
There was actually a Spanish Catskills, There's a German Catskills.
In fact, I've been to the German Catskills.
They have all these restaurants that serve things like Schnitzel a la Holstein and other things like that.
It's German menus and the ambiance is kind of German.
There are Italian places in the Catskills.
Every nationality that I know of had its... In fact, there still are places.
I've been to them.
I went to one called the, believe it or not, called the Friar Tuck, which despite its name was entirely Italian.
I got there, I'm not Italian, but I got there and as I'm arriving a huge bus showed up with older Italian ladies led by a priest.
And they went into the hotel, I noticed that the noise level, all the meals were included, And the place was completely Italian.
I felt very much an outsider.
It was fine.
The food was very good.
The only problem was these people were eating everywhere.
And I tried to go into the swimming pool and they would be floating out into the middle of the pool with food.
Really?
Yes.
Okay.
And they'd be sitting on these blow-up chairs.
Wow.
eating, okay? I'm a lap swimmer. It was very difficult to swim laps with people.
But it was, you know, a world of Italia. There's still one left, okay, called the Villa Roma.
Wow.
If you are into that, you can go there and you don't have to be bothered by any non-Italians.
Wow. There is such a thing.
Well, you say there was a Spanish one too?
Was that Mexicans or Spaniards?
No, that was Spanish, not a Spaniard.
Spaniards, yes.
Well, well.
No, I had no idea.
I'd always thought that the ethnically identifiable institutions, the Catskills, were all Jewish.
No, those were the ones that got a lot of publicity because of the comics and the terms like, it's a real Catskillian comic or that'll fly at the Catskills, things like that.
But they, separatism has always existed in the resort business.
People want to go where the ambiance is consistent with their culture.
Now, nobody refers to this as Italian supremacy when they will go to the Villa Roma.
No, no, I think it is only generic white people.
And apparently it is perhaps dubiously okay for Irish to take pride in Irish ancestry.
Well, I assume it's also true for people of color.
that they're Scots and go to the Scottish games.
It's when you start uniting all these tribes and talk about whiteness,
oh, then you have stepped across the bounds and then you are a white supremacist.
Well, I assume it's also true for people of color.
My guess would be that there are distinctions between people, for example, who come from Jamaica
versus those people who come from Barbados.
The real...
Anybody who's been to the area could tell you right off the bat there are very, very large differences between these islands.
And I assume that there are people in Jamaica who say, we don't go there, that's only for people who come from Trinidad.
Well, I don't know.
Could very well be.
Could very well be.
It's human nature.
But yes, one's tribe.
And I have been saying for the last 30 years that this idea of building a nation in which race can be made not to matter is building a dream upon the sand.
It's not going to work.
And it's about time we recognize that it's not working.
And I think that your concept of disengagement is one that needs to be introduced.
Now, it's a bit of a marketing challenge, at least these days, among right-thinking white people.
Well, there are lots of parallels to this.
The best parallel I can think about is religion.
Anybody who knows any history will tell you about the carnage of the 30-year war.
And the way it was settled was essentially Everybody had their own area.
The Peace of Westphalia.
The Peace of Westphalia, 1648.
And that pretty much settled the thing.
And you no longer had Catholic empires or Protestant empires.
You had Catholic cities and Protestant cities.
And even today when you travel in Germany, for example, if you happen to by chance travel with a German, I remember my first experience with this, Going to Nuremberg, and Nuremberg was described as, I'll give you the English, as a black city.
Now of course it wasn't a black city in the American sense of a black city, but the term black came from the clerical garb of the priests.
Nuremberg was a Catholic city.
So black as in the red and the black?
Red and the black was what the, you know, the priests wore black.
And the military wore red.
And it works out fine.
Daniel Borstein, the great historian and head of the Library of Congress for many years, once defined small-town America as a confederation of theocracies.
You pay your money and it takes your choice of which theocracy you can go to.
So, if you don't like the Presbyterians running the town, you go to... I spent 18 years in a town run by the Baptists.
Well, that surprises me a little bit because I think in small-town America, you would find more than one brand of church.
There would be a Presbyterian church, a Baptist church, a Methodist church.
There's always a church, from my own experience in small town America, there's always a place that runs the show.
Well, it's like in these big cities, there's always a club, a Tammany Hall kind of thing, or a Mayor Daley.
You know, we're all equal, but some denominations are a little bit more equal than others.
But a true theocracy would permit no competition at all, but be that as it may.
The main idea, of course, is that diversity is not a strength under any circumstances.
Certainly not the kind of diversity we're supposed to be supporting and promoting.
I sometimes make the distinction between Functional diversity and status diversity.
And functional diversity, if you're building houses, well, yes, you need plumbers, you need bricklayers, you need roofers, you need carpenters, and you do need that kind of diversity.
But the houses are going to go up all better if they're all Asians or if they're all white.
The idea that you're going to get a better bunch of builders by mixing in blacks and Hispanics and one-legged lesbians and who the hell knows else, nudists and fruit juice drinkers, that kind of diversity is not going to help one bit.
But it's the second kind of nudists and Buddhists and fruit juice drinkers and blacks and whites that we're supposed to be celebrating.
Completely crazy.
You know who was the great descender of what you're talking about?
It was Henry Ford.
Henry Ford hated unions with a vengeance, but he and the unions could agree on one thing.
That was all his diverse workers had to be remanufactured into Americans.
Because he knew full well that if you hired lots of immigrant workers and they did not speak the same language, They brought with them, you know, their ancient animosities.
You know, you had a group of Serbs and a group of Croatians on the floor, okay, who did not only didn't speak the same language but hated each other's guts, okay.
It would be not good for the manufacturing.
Now, he did not tolerate that kind of diversity.
He was an engineer.
He was a social engineer and he had spent a lot of money and a lot of effort to do that kind of thing.
Now, I think what did it here was economic gain.
That people wanted to work for $5 a day, which was one of the great lures of working for Ford.
But he understood that the kind of diversity we're talking about, you know, this Kambaya workforce, you look around the workforce and you have all these people speaking different languages and things like that, would be a disaster.
Yes, yes.
He understood it.
All humans understood it up until just a few decades ago.
I always refer to it as the default option of human existence.
Yes, yes.
If we let things happen by their own, this is what you get.
You know, the Japanese, when they started building factories in the United States, they tended to locate them out in overwhelmingly white, semi-rural parts of the United States.
Because the Japanese, they're not stupid, and they realized that if they built one in Detroit, They would get a strange mix of workers that might not be so good at building cars.
So you go out to Marysville, Ohio or someplace in Tennessee.
Jackson, Tennessee.
Yeah, they build a plant and practically everybody around there is a good hard-working white guy who fixes his own car, knows something about mechanics.
They're not these layabout black people who have never been under the hood.
Never really worked seriously in their lives?
No, they were very serious about that.
And some of this was detected by those who tattle on folk.
And some of the Japanese got in trouble, but they never had to pay up in any great sums.
But because they had already placed the factories where the catchment area was going to be the sort of person they wanted on the assembly line, that was okay.
But this whole idea of tribalism, it shows up in very interesting ways.
And one of my heroes, he's sort of an anti-hero in a way because he came to a sticky end, is a fellow by the name of Dwight York.
Now he started something called the Nuwabian Nation.
This is not as well known as it should be.
There's a guy, he started building black Muslim groups in New York City in 1967, but he changed his philosophy and his teachings to suit his audience.
And he would incorporate concepts from Judaism and Christianity and youthful religions, New Age stuff.
He was a very eclectic guy.
And in the late 1980s, he abandoned the whole black Muslim business.
And his movement was one of Kemetism.
You know, Kemet is this Egyptian word meaning black.
And when the Egyptians refer to their land as Kemet, we was Kang's type.
I think that that refers to the race of the people, but it has to do with the blackness of the soil, but be that as it may.
He got this chemitism going, and he, in 1991, this was his, he moved to upstate New York with a community, and then he took the band to Eatonton.
That was the county seat of Putnam County, Georgia.
and his followers built this ancient Egyptian-themed compound called Tama Re.
Sounds very nice, like Tara, you know, but only different.
And then they changed the name to United Nawabian Nation of Moors.
And at one point they had 500 adherents living on the compound.
That's a lot of people to get to move to one place.
Edenton, for heaven's sake.
So, he must have been a very charismatic guy.
Brigham Young.
I beg your pardon?
He's like Joseph Smith of Brigham Young.
Oh, yes, indeed.
Or Jones.
In any case, Tamaray was doing so well that York purchased a half a million dollar mansion in Athens, Georgia for his own use.
In 1999, Al Sharpton came by to Tamaray to bless the Nawabi and Moors.
So they were flying high.
But then, well, and not only did they have these 500 people who lived on site and worked and pretended to be Egyptians and climbed the pyramids, on Founders Day, which was Mr. York's birthday, they would get thousands of people in to celebrate their blackness.
All black, of course, but as Wikipedia puts it, membership declined steeply.
After York was convicted of numerous counts of child molestation as well as racketeering and financial reporting violations and sentenced to 135 years in federal prison.
That happened in 2004.
Membership declined rapidly at that point.
He will be eligible for parole in 2122.
So good luck, good luck.
But this is yet again an example of the desire of blacks.
This is a somewhat... I would change that, actually, to the desire of human beings.
Yes, yes, you're absolutely right.
This is a different version of the women of color healing retreat.
His was the sort of goofballs of color religious retreat, you know.
Let us pretend we're Egyptians.
But all of this, again, I'm thinking in terms of How to appeal to this human nature of Americans and get them off this diversity and integration kick?
Well, part of the problem is the legal one.
You may recall that many years ago the city of Detroit tried to establish essentially a I think they had an island in the river, and they wanted to create something called New Africa.
I'm not sure of the details.
An island in Detroit?
Well, in the river.
Yeah?
Yes.
There's a... What's the river that runs through?
It's the Detroit River.
The Detroit River, okay.
That separates Windsor from Detroit.
Yes.
The problem was, the legal one, cities are bound by anti-discrimination laws, particularly dealing with public funding, okay?
Now, I would consider that a management problem.
How can you separate the city money from money which can go into sort of separatist causes?
And it's not a difficult problem at all.
But, excuse me, what was to be the purpose?
The purpose of this thing was to create, essentially, A zone in which blacks would have their own autonomous environment.
But that was all of Detroit, practically.
Well, this would be... I'm not quite sure of the details of the thing, but it probably resembled the empowerment zones, which were then...
Empowerment was in the early 90s, and an enormous amount of government money went into these kinds of things.
Oh, you mean the economic... Empowerment zones, right.
Tax benefits, infrastructure went into those things.
There were versions of what people thought that the English had done.
The English Empowerment Zones, which are called Brownfield Zones, were large areas with no people.
And the feeling there would be that these would be like new communities, like Reston or Columbia in, was it Maryland?
Maryland, yeah.
Reston in Virginia.
But it was in Virginia, once in Maryland, okay.
Whole new cities, Levittown kind of thing.
But what happened was, they got all tangled up in the, having racial set-asides funded by city money.
So that could not, it never came to pass.
But you could do it with NGOs.
Well, as I recall, the whole idea of EEZs, Economic Empowerment Zones, you would find some absolutely blasted, clapped out, full of blacks part of town and say, okay, we're going to designate this.
This is actually what happened.
Yes.
Well, no, they started off as blasted and clapped out, and the idea was we were going to transform them into Shenzhen or some kind of... And the idea was that if you give companies tax breaks and incentivize them, they were going to invest... There are a number of serious studies done on this.
And they all flopped.
I can't remember.
Is there even a single one still out there?
Well, there are major ones.
There were 87 of them, if I remember correctly.
The most prominent one was in Atlanta.
Detroit had one too.
There were a number of them in large cities.
The Detroit one had some success.
The mayor, I forget the mayor's name, but he was a very reasonable guy.
Was that Coleman Young's name?
No, this was after Coleman Young.
It may come back to me, the mayor's name.
But what happened was that he got the automobile companies To set up businesses in the area to attract workers.
And this was low-tech.
For example, they would do the upholstery work for the car manufacturers.
Not fancy metallurgy work or electronics work.
But they would make car seats, okay?
The problem had... Dennis... I'll come back to his name.
Dennis Archer was his name.
Mayor of Detroit.
But the problem that happened was that these businesses became almost entirely Hispanic.
Yeah, they were the ones who showed up to do the upholstery work.
These were the ones who were polishing, doing the sort of low-level manual work in the car industry.
Now, the Atlanta thing was quite different because the power structure in Atlanta made sure it was black run.
And the single accomplishment that they had done was to move a Rolls-Royce dealership From the suburbs to downtown Atlanta.
This was a dealership that had begun various, it was in precarious shape anyhow.
They used tax money to move it downtown where it probably went out of business.
But most of the money was spent on administrative overhead, particularly dinners at the Ritz-Carlton.
That's very important.
Very important.
That's economic empowerment.
It was.
For the Ritz-Carlton, it was.
Yes, yes.
Well, no, they discovered pretty quickly that all the tax incentives in the world were not going to make up for the fact that if you went to a blasted, overwhelmingly black neighborhood, Even if you paid zero taxes, you could make no money if everything was destroyed and stolen.
As a portion of the expenditures for a company, taxes are not that big.
No.
They may seem like a very large amount of money, but as a proportion of the total outlay, they're very small.
That's right.
So these were complete flops.
The other good sign that I see, and I'm concentrating on blacks here because they're the people about whom we're supposed to be constantly worried.
They are supposed to be top priority in all of our thinking in terms of policy.
And if we can get blacks to go along with disengagement, then I think the battle is mostly won.
But again, they have all of their disengagement There are disengagement efforts in various places, but only when there is a kind of white support.
For example, the universities that have BIPOC housing or special dormitories and special spaces for them.
Theme houses.
Yes, theme houses.
But then there also is the whole business of the historically black colleges and universities.
We can't call them black colleges anymore.
HBCUs.
And they too are within the context of a white support system.
They have money just shoveled into them by the boatload, and there's a place where blacks can pretend to be black and pretend to be building Wakanda, but it's really whitey who pays the bills.
And I've often made this point about Louis Farrakhan.
The Nation of Islam, one of its Formal official goals is separation of the races.
And I believe it was Louis Faulkner.
It might have been one of the previous guys, Wallace or Farid.
But in any case, one of them offered to take all of the black prisoners from American prisons and take them to Africa.
And we somehow didn't take him up on that.
I'm not quite sure whether any African nation would have been very pleased with that either.
But it seems to me some sort of deal could have been worked out with a little bit of greasing the ways with bundles of $100 votes.
Well, I think Great Britain is doing that with sending it to Uganda, I think, isn't it?
They're trying.
They're trying.
The British are trying to do that.
Let me get to the real kind of what I think is the important point here.
Okay.
There are several.
One, as I call it, is the Hattie Youngman principle.
When asked, Henny, how is your wife?
His response was, compared to what?
And politics always involves choices.
And some of the choices are not necessarily with a good outcome and a bad outcome.
There's a worse outcome and a terrible outcome.
And in many instances, the idea of a kind of set-aside in which you create black businesses Perhaps hearkening back to the pre-integration era when you had all these black businesses thriving in communities, okay?
And you simply have covert subsidies of the thing, okay?
You could say, well, here's the bill for this operation of some billions of dollars, okay?
Well, that's very, very expensive.
And then there were my responses compared to what?
Oh, compared to, for example, a failing public school system, through crime and things like that.
So, politics is always a comparative kind of thing.
And I would say that, since this is what many blacks want, okay?
And this is also what many whites want, although you maybe force them to admit it, okay?
Yes, that's just it.
That the cost of this would be very small compared to the alternatives.
Well, that's true if we could succeed in popularizing disengagement.
If it turned out that Whitey would have to continue to subsidize that indefinitely.
Let me give you an example of how it can be done.
It's been my experience is that black businesses that start up in black areas to provide the services.
Best example of that is supermarkets.
You know, supermarkets in black areas like New York City have come and gone because the operational cost of running a supermarket in a black area is just too high.
But you could easily subsidize that without anybody knowing it.
For example, the city would sell a piece of land, okay?
And the city could sell it for any price they want.
A dollar would be legal.
Who's to say what the land is worth?
To an NGO, which is not bound by all the same rules about racial discrimination, say the city was.
The city discriminated against whites, they could be sued.
But if an NGO decided to do that, let's just say the Ford Foundation, Then the NGO would turn around and lease the land to a black supermarket for a dollar a year, and also subsidize it in a number of other ways, all of which would be legal.
So, these would be hidden away in the accounting.
The accountants, the gentlemen with the green eyeshades and the sharp pencils, would know where the money is coming from.
So, if you reduce the cost of running a black supermarket by reducing the overhead of the thing, by reducing the rent and things like that, even with all the associated costs, the shoplifting, the workforce problems, nature of hiring police and all that sort of stuff, which
destroys a white-run supermarket.
It would be an amazing event. People would come from miles around and they would say,
you know, it's really amazing that all these blacks have gotten together and they run a
supermarket which is clean, orderly, fresh produce, so they can get all the things they need.
It's amazing. Stereotypes of blacks being unable to run anything are false. Look at, you know,
okay, the supermarket. But behind the supermarket, underlying it, okay,
is an elaborate scheme of invisible, semi-invisible subsidies.
Well, I'm afraid that it probably would come to that.
What's wrong with it?
Well, what's wrong with it is that it still has to come out of our hide.
That's what's wrong.
Compared to what?
Well, okay, but compared to what we have today, it is perhaps a better situation.
On the other hand, what have we really gained?
Remember what Voltaire said?
No, no, Mr. K, Mr. K. What have we really gained by the fact that there is a supermarket in a black area rather than a bunch of mom-and-pop shops?
We have gained nothing from that.
Yes, we have.
But no, what have we gained?
Okay, the civil market will support an entire industry of other black businesses.
What does that do for us either?
Well, again, what happens is... If it keeps them in the neighborhood... Yes, it does!
For example, every supermarket has to have a marketing program, right?
Who's going to run that?
Black marketeers, right?
And how's the marketing going to go?
Well, it doesn't make any difference.
Remember what Voltaire said?
He said, the perfect is the enemy of the good.
We're striving for the good, not the perfect.
Let me go through the listing of businesses.
But I'm not sure I see the good in it.
I mean, maybe they eat better, fine, but what does that do for us?
No, no.
You have black marketing companies, okay?
You have black insurance companies.
At one point, there were lots and lots of black insurance companies.
Well, again, what good does that do for us?
Well, these blacks work for black insurance companies as opposed to suing IBM for racial discrimination, okay?
You have a black security system, which provides security for the thing, okay?
You have various black companies which have cleaning contracts for the store.
They come in and they clean the contract.
They'll end up hiring historians.
Well, you see, you're picking apart every little detail of the thing.
But what I'm saying is, is workers now...
Who are unqualified, go into white companies, okay, where they are a burden and they litigate and they require enormous amounts of overhead to discrimination-proof the school.
For example, Macy's has a very well-paid diversity bureaucracy within it, okay?
Anybody who's been to Macy's, okay, will tell you, and I have been to Macy's, okay, that you walk into the store on Herald Square, you see enormous numbers of blacks standing around.
These are alleged employees.
Yes, they're employees.
I cannot figure out what they are doing, but they are standing around talking to each other.
Now, I assume that all of that is sort of factored into the operating cost of running a Macy's.
Now, if one of you came to them and said, look, we have this problem, but we're looking for a few good black employees, maybe a thousand, to run a black department store in Harlem.
They're just going to stand around and talk to each other there.
Fine!
Better to do it in Harlem.
Okay, but Macy's is still going to be compelled to hire its own to meet their diversity.
Why would they go to work in Macy's and have white people tell them, stop talking on your cell phone?
I remember going into it.
They would rather work in Harlem where everybody is talking on their cell phone.
Maybe.
But Macy's is not going to be spared the diversity obligation of having black employees.
I can see the president of Macy's standing before a microphone saying, gentlemen, we have a terrible problem.
Ever since the Uganda department store opened up in Harlem, we just cannot get our, to make our diversity numbers.
Nobody wants to, no people of color want to work on Herald Square.
They all get much better jobs uptown.
It's a terrible situation.
Wouldn't work.
In any case.
Mr. Sunshine here.
I have more faith.
I find more inspiration in the story of Marcus Garvey.
He's one of my favorite black guys.
He too came to a bit of a sticky end.
Apparently he was not charged with the child molestation the way Dwight York was.
He was with stock fraud, wire fraud.
That's right.
But some people say it was all trumped up.
It was.
J. Edgar Hoover was after him.
But again, white people are sometimes entirely misguided.
It's like the offer that the Nation of Islam made.
Give us your tired, your hungry, your prisoners and we'll take them elsewhere.
Right.
And we said, no, good grief.
In any case, Marcus Garvey, Jamaican publisher, journalist, entrepreneur, and founder of the Universal Negro Improvement Association.
I've always loved that idea.
Black Star Alliance?
Yes, yes.
Universal Negro Improvement.
We need that.
We need that.
And he recognized that he needed that.
He started that in 1914.
Well, he also started a newspaper called The Negro World because he was a Pan-Africanist.
He, at the time, practically all of Africa was colonized.
He wanted to be decolonized, and he was going to be the sole ruler
of the United Negro Land in Africa.
But be that as it may, in The Negro World, his newspaper,
I think it was really quite remarkable.
Unlike the over 400 other black-run newspapers at the time, he refused to accept advertisements for skin lightening and hair straightening products.
He said, black people should take the kinks out of your mind instead of out of your hair.
I agree.
I agree 100%.
And by the end of its first year, the circulation of Negro World was over 10,000.
Now, American Renaissance, in its print days, never had more than about 3 or 4,000.
And that was after years of trying.
So, Negro World outdid us, and that's back before the days of even Regular telephonic communication.
They got the word out.
But the United Negro Improvement Association, I love that name.
In just over 18 months, it had branches in 25 states.
And by June of 1919, it had 2 million members.
I mean, these are really extraordinary figures.
And it opened a string of grocery stores, restaurants, a laundry, a publishing house.
And in 1920, the UNIA had its first International Congress of Negro Peoples.
And they held it in Harlem.
And they had an estimated 25,000 people assembled in Madison Square Garden.
Now at American Renaissance Conference, because we have to, we couldn't do it in Madison Square Garden because Madison Square Garden wouldn't let us in.
But even in the height of our ability to have American Renaissance Conferences in ordinary hotels, we never had more than 400 people.
And Marcus Garvey had $25,000.
And these are all people who are interested in separation.
They traveled to New York undoubtedly in segregated facilities?
No doubt, no doubt.
And ate in segregated restaurants?
Yes, yes.
And it all worked out just fine.
They paid not only the financial cost, but the humiliation cost of attending this.
For those people, though, the idea of a segregated restaurant was not necessarily a humiliation cost.
Because, as Marcus Garvey said, the white man, if he built a streetcar, it's okay if he built it for himself.
And if he wants to say, okay, it's for us and not for you, that's his right.
And I think some of the Garveyites are probably happy to subsidize and patronize places run by fellow black people.
In any case, he said this, too.
He was criticized by W.E.B.
Du Bois, who absolutely hated him.
And of course he would, because here's a black man who says, we're going to do it on our own.
We're not going to go crawling to Hawaii for every handout the way W.E.B.
Du Bois was doing.
He hated him.
But he said, one of the things Du Bois criticized him for was his friendly relations with the Klan.
The Klan and McGarvey agreed we should each go our separate ways.
And this is what he said about the Ku Kluxers.
I regard the Klan, the Anglo-Saxon clubs, and white American societies, as far as the Negro is concerned, as better friends of the race than all other groups of hypocritical whites put together.
I like honesty and fair play.
So do I. But he had this admirable notion that by universally improving the Negro, they were going to really be a self-sustaining and mighty people.
I think that was one of his slogans.
Up, up, you mighty race!
And of course, as you say, he started this Black Star Line that was supposed to help people emigrate to Liberia.
His discussions with Liberians didn't go very well.
Can I interject here?
Very, very rough parallel.
And I stress the roughness of the parallel.
With the Zionist movement.
Yes.
Okay.
The Zionist, the existence of Israel is historically a very precarious journey.
I mean, it only really started at the end of the 19th century with Theodor Herzl.
And there are a lot of alternatives.
Okay.
Berender Hirsch, as is well known, was a believer, very, very wealthy Jewish man,
even though his name was Hirsch, which is a German name, it was actually French.
He was the father of the Oriental Express.
And he made a lot of money speculating.
And he believed that Jews had the best shot in Argentina.
And he funded large numbers of Jews to move to Argentina.
Madagascar was another favorite place.
So there were lots of stops and starts and dead ends and all kinds of movements.
But eventually the Zionists in Israel, speaking Hebrew, which today is seen as sort of like inevitable.
Okay.
Wasn't really very inevitable.
And it's conceivable that you will have at some point that a hundred years from now blacks will look back upon the what I call mandatory assimilation of our era.
Basically forcing blacks to act as whites.
And they will look back upon this thing and they say, what were they thinking at the time?
We can always hope.
Well, this is what goes on.
I mean, we look back.
I mean, there is a book just came out, by the way, on Baron de Hirsch.
This is how I knew about the thing.
And his schemes, he really believed that if Jews were sent off to occupations like a farmer, anti-Semitism would go away, because Jews were discriminated against because of their involvement in things like money lending and bookkeeping.
Even tax farming.
Tax farming.
And today we look back upon it.
This was only a hundred years ago or so.
We look back upon De Hirsch and Yeah, this man was stupid!
I mean, what was he thinking?
And the same thing, you know, look back upon Lyndon Johnson with the War on Poverty, and we'll look back upon that and say, what were these people thinking at the time?
Okay, and they will read some of the grand proposals from the Great Society, and people will roar with laughter.
Let us hope so.
Let us hope so.
I suppose, I think it's probably more likely, but maybe not, that they will roar with laughter at the idea that men can become women and women can become men and that men can give birth to children.
I just read the other day about one of these transsexual types, a man who was really convinced he was a woman and refused, absolutely refused, to believe that he could possibly be diagnosed with prostate cancer.
He says, I'm a woman.
I have prostate cancer.
Yes, he refused treatment.
This is the kind of insanity to which we have arisen or declined, whichever the heights of insanity or the depths of insanity.
But it would be wonderful if we could look back, if we can anticipate looking back.
It's a very good book.
I highly recommend it.
The History of Madness by Andrew Skull, which Talks about the treatment of mental illness over the years.
And as you read these accounts of treatments, okay, Your response has to be, I had no idea human beings to be this stupid.
These were the medical experts of the day.
Can you regale us with a few examples of what sort of treatments did they do?
Black phlegm was the source of the sorts of things.
Hysteria refers to the wandering womb.
Women's womb would wander away.
And you had to entice it back with good smells and odors so they would take women and they would bring these fine smelling things to bring the womb back.
Yes, okay.
It's a compilation of madness all the way around from the patients to those giving out the treatment, okay?
constant beatings, lobotomies, and all those sorts of things.
Well, lobotomies apparently did calm people down.
It did work, okay, they did work.
But they became, what happened was, they developed a system of putting needles in the eye,
which industrialized lobotomies.
Yale University was the center of this kind of treatment.
Now my feeling is that we have a category of individuals today who I call racial engineers.
These are the same people who brought us the Indian schools.
These are the same people who turned the plains Indian into a bunch of Presbyterian farmers who Wonderful successes.
When they stopped transforming the Indians into Presbyterian farmers, they were unemployed.
So they became involved in the prohibition movement.
So they began to get Germans and Italians off of the sauce.
Having these people give up the Irish.
We know their success, okay?
But alas, they became unemployed on that.
So, here we are in the 1930s.
All these people who had this record of success, unemployed, okay?
And somebody says, what are we going to do next?
I know what we're going to do next.
We're going to turn blacks into whites.
What a grand idea!
Well, it doesn't seem to be working.
That's just the track.
Well, they have a track record.
According to my careful record-keeping, many of them now are on the fourth generation of their successes.
Family traditions. They have pictures of the founders living right there.
I'm sorry, a fourth generation of what exactly?
Of transformers, racial engineers.
Hmm, well.
They have created, they have changed nomadic plains Indians into Presbyterian farmers who Who grow organic vegetables, okay.
They have gotten all these Italians and Germans off of alcohol into fruit juices, okay.
Their record of trends, many of them went overseas and they made Soviet peasants into collective farmers.
That was a big success.
That was a big hit.
They came back to the United States very wealthy from the successes.
of that. But they were, but you know what happens is people don't appreciate their efforts.
So they have to follow for new frontiers, new prospects, new victims, new victims to
apply their skills to. And you know what? They got jobs in the Johnson administration.
Alas, I'm afraid they did, yes.
And none of this is working.
Who knows what they will go on to next?
Trans men into women?
Women into men?
I guess that's the new frontier.
What will they think of next?
Well, you have this class of what I call human engineers.
And they practice their trade regardless of their failure.
And they get government money for it.
It's remarkable.
Well, yes, that is the horrible part of it, isn't it?
We fund all of these attempts to change sow's ears into silk purses.
But I see certain resistance to this.
There is definite resistance against this men becoming women and vice versa stuff.
And I'm delighted to see also that there is increasing circulation now in the general discourse of the term anti-white.
Anti-white.
Did you see any of those advertisements that, oh gosh, why am I blanking out of his name?
That Jewish speechwriter and advisor in the Trump White House, Steve... Miller.
Steve Miller, yes.
In Georgia, yes.
Yes, the organization going.
And the ads say, since when has anti-white racism become acceptable?
Yes.
And he goes through, point by point, some of these really blatantly anti-white policies.
And then, of course, all the usual people are incensed about this.
What?
Anti-white racism?
Impossible!
Unthinkable!
But no, all of this is, I think, a very encouraging sign.
I'm very, I think, I agree with you a hundred percent.
There's also a large number of dogs that do not bark.
Let's hope they start barking.
No, no, no, no, no.
Okay.
After all the turmoil of the summer of St.
Floyd, and all of the other things, there's no more talk of rebuilding the city's Marshall Plans and all the other bric-a-brac that previously would always follow these kinds of things.
The New York City school system.
Periodically, you'll see an article.
The smartest kid in the 8th grade in Baltimore cannot read or write.
The only kid who's gotten there.
The valedictorian doesn't read or write.
These are generic stories.
What are they going to do?
Let's run one of these things.
But, there is no follow-up to what we must do.
It used to be that any time you printed a story like this, there was an enormous counter-push.
We're going to step up funding for Head Start.
We're going to change the way we train teachers.
All of this kind... It was a kind of dynamic that you had.
The disaster and the... There's no longer any response.
I follow at somewhat of a distance... Oh, Mr. Kaye, I beg to differ.
I'm afraid you're wrong.
There is a response.
And the response is that nothing can change until we white people have overcome Our internal racism.
We must, by thinking pure thoughts constantly, and by battling white privilege and battling systemic racism, only when we have changed our own mentality, then... Then all the kids in Detroit will... Yes, they will!
They will magically, magically... I take that.
My interpretation of that is different than yours, okay?
I view this as a return to...it's an atavistic response.
It's magical thinking.
Magical thinking.
It's going back a couple millennia, actually.
Indeed, yes.
Probably more than a couple millennia.
It's probably going back several hundred thousand years, okay?
Yes, it's... But, but... It's pre-Cambrian thinking.
I call it, maybe we'll call it the I word.
I will give you another term, intractability.
That at some point, okay, now in private industry, company goes out of business, okay?
But in public funding, these things will go on forever.
But eventually, somebody will utter the I word.
Intractable. Now that is the, it's like disengagement, okay?
I really do believe that that word should be put back in, given a place of honor in the public debate.
Intractable?
Intractable. Yeah, these are perpetual motion machines.
Why yesterday we squared a circle.
Tomorrow, we're going to come up with a perpetual motion machine.
And after that, we're going to eliminate racial inequality.
But, officially, No problem in the liberal mind is intractable.
These days, the only intractable problem is the problem of white people.
You know, we used to have a Negro problem.
Now, America has a white people problem.
And that's official.
From the top down.
I knew!
I knew!
This is the astonishing thing.
We are the intractable problem, Mr. K.
Well, I think, I'm happy with that because let's now talk about, now that we're on the subject that there are some problems that are intractable.
The question really is not the issue of intractability, qua intractability.
It's a question of which particular problems are intractable, okay?
Now, I would say to that, I cannot help myself.
Well, right.
I am born white.
I have a white mother, which makes me white according to the rules of my faith.
And we won't inquire too closely about your father.
Right, oh, you don't know who he is.
The visitor.
The nighttime visitor.
So you say, okay, I admit I'm intractably white.
I'm hopelessly white.
I just the other day had some macaroni and cheese.
But what other problems are intractable?
Now that we're talking about intractability.
Well, if you recognize that we are the problem, then all the rest of them, especially the BIPOCs, should be happy to see us go.
And if you were to approach them and say, okay, you have now designated us as the intractable problem.
We are inherently racist.
We can't help it.
Please let us go our own way.
That would be disillusioning.
In the law, okay, in reconcilable differences, okay?
Yes, it's called...
Divorce.
Yes, that's right.
There's a Dolly Parton song on that about a divorce, okay, a couple years ago.
And my feeling is, is that your honor, okay, I'd like to make that we have tried.
We have gone to therapy.
That's right.
We have gone to vacations.
We have watched TV together.
All the things that make for a happy marriage.
But nothing has worked, okay?
That's right.
Irreconcilable differences.
Yes.
I plead with the court for a decree of relief.
Yes.
Well, that has been my thinking for many years now.
And let us hope that with a little effort, a little common sense, We will make, but to whom will we make this appeal?
Well, let's go forward with that.
Having been through a divorce, and others I'm sure have had a divorce, okay, the judge will say yes, but we have to compensate.
But who's the judge?
That's the problem.
Will the current Supreme Court grant us a divorce?
Well, I think it will.
I think it will.
And what we'll say is this, okay?
The poor suffering spouse, we'll call it just a spouse.
These days, it could be either one.
It could be.
It has to be compensated because after all, Mrs. Bezos, we all knew, was behind Mr. Bezos' success at Amazon.
That she or Melissa Gates was the driving force of Microsoft, okay?
And we have to give her half of her share of the assets, okay?
And you ask Mr. Bezos or Mr. Gates and other things like that, would you agree to that kind of thing?
And he says, well, I spoke with my counselor, Mr. K. Mr. K says, yes, take it.
It's the best deal you're going to get.
At this point, at this point, I would say to all the non-whites in the country, we're going to draw a line right in the middle and you pick either half your life and we'll take the rest.
That's true.
You, anybody who's ever gone through a very difficult divorce,
and there are many of us who have, know that at some point your lawyer says,
you know what, you can continue to pay me my fees, or you can just take this and get out
and find some other squeeze.
Well, perhaps we will come before an almighty and all-knowing judge someday.
Well, maybe it'll be Stacey Abrams who's president of the world.
Well, she does write romance novels.
A lot of spastras, which they love.
I guess that's so.
Well, if that's what we have to wait for, I think we'll wait in vain.
But, Mr. Key, it has been a joy and a delight, a pleasure and an honor to have you in the studio.
Always a lively conversation and I look forward to having our listeners perhaps express their views on these very important subjects.
They will, and they do.
Thank goodness!
So, thank you very much.
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