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April 4, 2022 - Radio Renaissance - Jared Taylor
01:09:26
The Spirit of the Bronze Age
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Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to this edition of Left, Right, and White.
I am Henry Wolfe, here with Gregory Hood.
I am not the usual co-host.
Chris Roberts is not going to be on this one.
Today we are talking about Bronze Age Mindset, which is the book by the author whose pseudonym is Bronze Age Pervert, who we'll just be calling BAP from here on out.
This book has drawn considerable attention from both the left and the right, so it's fitting for this podcast.
People as high up as Michael Anton have written about it very seriously in Claremont Review of Books.
Twitter greats like Mike Cernovich reference it frequently.
Bap himself was a big Twitter personality before he was banned, although some people claim that he might still be lurking on Twitter under a different name.
But you can find him on Telegram, you can find him, his podcast Caribbean Rhythms is on Gumroad.
Yeah, so make sure you can subscribe to that.
Definitely follow his stuff and don't let the censors win just because he's not prominent on Twitter anymore.
Yeah, and Politico had a hit piece about it.
Not that long ago, which was highly amusing on several different levels, but anyone who
gets that kind of fear and loathing from the media is usually worthy of attention.
Quite a few hit pieces on this book and on BAP in particular.
We don't know, never met him, don't want to meet him.
We're just going to be looking straight at the book.
Exactly.
Because the message is what matters.
Exactly.
We're just going to look at the content here.
And it's quite funny, these hit pieces, because Bap's style is humorous and almost Absurd in places and you have these scolds on the left these school marms trying to attack him and and Pin him in a corner and say he's this or that but you can't really do that because the longhouse mindset, right?
I mean, that's really what the book is about this idea of subordinating the great the ambitious Anything that gives you that sense of divine fire and driving toward a higher sense of life And then here are these school marms saying no no, which is especially obnoxious because the left always frames itself as the liberators and the people who are Well, exactly.
I would say that this book preaches true liberation.
That's right.
And true freedom.
And that's why it has to be suppressed.
And they have to attack it and try and cut it down and lie about it and so on.
We're going to be telling the truth today, to the extent that it's possible about this, because it is difficult to pin down a lot of his ideas, but I think there are very clear themes that come across in the book, and certainly there's a clear sense of life, in a Randian sense, that he communicates.
The book is kind of written in a Nietzschean style, if you've ever read any of his books of philosophy.
It's an account of his reveries, it is not a systematic argument.
It's an exhortation, he says.
It's not philosophy.
But the sections are sometimes just a paragraph long, sometimes three, four pages, and he kind of bounces around on different topics, revolving around big themes.
But one of the main themes that I think we're going to dive into first is the contrast he draws between different views of life.
Right.
And I think the main, for me, the main takeaway is the argument that yeast life, mere life, survival of life is something that is ugly and not worth preserving.
That this is the situation that we're being driven into and this is something to be avoided.
What life, I mean the line that really stuck with me, because it's something that I've seen most people who I read and admire, is the idea that life has something within it that reaches beyond itself.
If you're not reaching beyond mere life, you're already dead.
And most people are basically the walking dead.
There is a kernel of a serious argument underneath all of this, which is the idea of domination of space.
I'm going to quote here.
You must learn to see the secret language of nature and what it drives at.
There is one path that drives for the production of a supreme specimen.
It is the path that governs higher life, survival and reproduction are only side effects of this path.
Life is at its most basic struggle for ownership of space.
What he's saying here is that we, like some of the animals that he describes trapped in zoos, we're in this iron prison where we never really get to develop the full sense of our powers.
We never really get to have that sense of danger, that sense of exploration, that idea of taking on the unknown and doing it, not for some egalitarian narrative, but like for your own glory and the glory of those around you and your friends.
And that's what should be pursued.
But instead, we are in this longhouse, essentially, where we sit around, power is broken, and the weak and the sclerotic and the lords of lies say, this is what we have to put up with.
And this is modernity.
And he draws an interesting contrast.
He says, you know, this is where guys like Evola and Rene Guénon get some important things wrong because he doesn't hold tradition as such to be of any particular importance.
In fact, if you look at the traditions of most of the world, they're awful.
And even the admiration for East Asia or the Middle East for supposedly getting civilization first has it backwards because city life in those places, not just now, but always have been, Disgusting, crowded, mediocre, the tyranny of the small shopkeeper, mere life, yeast life, not real life.
Yeah, it goes into considerable detail about how China may have had civilization for thousands of years before, say, the Germanic tribes, but that They achieved nothing really of note or genuinely human significance.
Right.
I mean, they may have had writing first, but it was just like inventories and stuff and trade and lineage and so on and things that were not really literary or great achievements in that sense.
He says, by contrast, the life of these Germanic tribesmen was extremely... he's very impressed with it.
He says, and the people at the time were as well.
As were the ancient Greeks.
He says, as were the ancient Greeks.
They had nothing to say about, you know, so-called civilized life in the East, but they were very impressed with the lives of Germanic tribesmen and... Those who put their wealth in their spears and who They are what they can claim.
They're free because they are a warlike people and only a military people can be free.
Because if you can't defend what you actually have, the force of arms, you're not free.
And getting into the modern age now, This is why no one is truly free.
He makes the argument, you know, why should young viral men who actually have power and the responsibility of defending the state, why should they listen to the people who are telling them what to do?
To me, that's actually the one key weakness, because he speaks to these people, but as we've seen, the so-called military caste in the West, at least at the highest levels, are not very impressive, or at least they're not in alignment with the values preached here.
I mean, I'm thinking of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who was defending teaching white privilege classes to his staff and everything else.
Right.
Yeah, he certainly doesn't have much good to say about the modern military, which basically is just Trying to get young try to trying to channel warlike energy
and young men's time and energies Into dying for causes that it's not it's not even a waste.
It's that you're actually making Your life worse and the life of everybody around you worse
and promoting values that destroy everything you claim to want
That said we can get into some of the practical takeaways But he essentially says look if you agree with these things
You should even denounce the book if you agree with it to do what's necessary to have some sort of political grasp
and And if you're going to join the military, you do it for your own purposes, for your own development, but don't go in with any illusions.
Exactly.
Exactly.
But let's get into the core of the argument here.
The struggle for space.
And he's saying that pressure on life, of mere survival, where it's overcrowded, everything is a contest over resources, and you're essentially trapped in the small area.
Noble animals will not breed in captivity.
They would rather die out.
Right.
And evolutionary pressures that supposedly turn animals into Masterful creatures that can overcome threats to their survival.
That has it entirely backwards.
In fact, life is not merely driven by evolution.
It's driven by something greater.
It's driven by the quest for something higher, more beautiful, more complex.
And the thing that is pulling down is this idea of yeast life, of survival at a basis and that's it.
You're just reproducing for no reason.
And you're constantly being dragged down by the need to provide for everything else around you.
And he's saying that you actually want a sense of leisure.
You actually want a sense of waste.
You actually want a sense of surplus.
Because that's the only way you can produce a higher form of life.
Now BAPF, not a white advocate.
I don't think he, you know, there are many more races than we think they are, as he puts it.
So I don't want to pin him with the labels.
He's coming at a lot of this stuff at a different place than we are.
But, It is worth noting, if you look at the white population or you look at the very small population of countries like the Netherlands, say.
I mean, if the Netherlands disappeared from history, think of everything that would be gone.
This is only a few million people.
Whereas you can think of entire continents and if they just flipped out of existence, what would be the real impact on civilization?
There is a difference between peoples and individuals who accomplish something that take
us upward and people who just simply reproduce Yeah, and unfortunately even in the Western world
we have Kind of become the latter
And actually we're the worst offenders because we're the ones enforcing all this.
Right.
There was a poll, this is slightly off topic, but there was a poll I saw the other day where they were talking about whether we would use technology to make people smarter, more capable.
And Africa actually said, well, yes, obviously we would do this.
And it was actually the Western world that's, no, no, no, no, no, we can't do that.
Even though nobody's going to be hurt by this, it's not about taking away from the third world and giving it to the first.
It's about improving ourselves.
But we've so internalized this mind virus of egalitarianism that even things that would obviously be good, we have to create reasons to be like, oh, well, we're not allowed to do that.
And I think that's kind of the problem with the Anglo right specifically, is that you take people, they have healthy instincts, they know something is wrong with the modern world.
And it's not modernity as such, as BAP says.
It's the way it's structured.
It's who holds power.
It's what aims people are driving for.
People have this sense that something is wrong, and then conservatives come flying in, and whether they appeal to religion or not, it's all basically just some argument of, Our principles do not allow you to pursue our interests.
You actually have to cripple yourself because otherwise you're violating this moral code which we just made up.
Right.
And he's essentially saying, well, why should we listen to this moral code?
I mean, they don't enforce it by force of arms, they enforce it by lies.
Right.
And it's just a question of how many people go along with these lies.
Right.
Yeah, he's calling for the wholesale Over turn, overthrow of our moral system.
And I think he would be the first to say that even if we solved the demographic problems, the ones that occupy us so much, that's just the beginning.
Because You'd still have this kind of crippled existence that especially people who Francis Fukuyama would consider like thumotic people, people who have thumos, people who are not happy with this kind of end of history neoliberal existence.
Where you have economic means of competition and conquest, but that's about it.
It's worth noting that he claims that as kind of a threat.
I mean, Fukuyama, of course, recently was writing about how a glorious victory over Russia will give us a new birth of freedom.
And, of course, the freedom that he's talking about is the freedom that exists in the Western world, which is basically the freedom to be... Climb the corporate ladder.
And be a degenerate.
That's the only freedom you have.
Talk about anything important, you'll find out very quickly How much freedom you actually enjoy.
In the United States, we at least have some semblance of freedom of speech.
But I mean, I refuse to regard the free world as a thing.
Right.
I mean, if you say the wrong thing, you will get dragged to prison just as you will in Russia.
What an interesting thing that Bob goes into is he kind of Some of the book is written as though it was written by a fanatic from a Dostoyevsky character, like a madman.
But he talks about these underworlds and places where a kind of true freedom exists.
Right.
And places, you know, he talks about the gay underworld that existed up until I guess the 1950s or 70s by his accounting.
But like mafia underground where you have like Perverts and druggies and like homeless people and all this stuff and he claims that he's been in parts of the third world where Like nightclub districts and stuff like that He says that things are possible there that there's like a freedom possible there that you can't really find in the Western world because it is so Over civilized and over controlled right?
There's some pretty Wild stories, whether they're true or not, doesn't matter.
No, it's just a sense of life.
Right.
And he's saying it's in this world, this dangerous world, it's in this world and almost only in this world today that you can start to polish the claws nature gave you, assuming it gave you any.
Yeah.
And that's when you talk about freedom, usually people just mean like maybe freedom to own guns, maybe freedom to choose different career paths or something like that.
But when you think about the limitations there are to our actions, Right.
It's not like the Greek world where you had people go out, unadventure, colonize, lead an army, then switch to the other side's army for your own glory, then go somewhere else and do it again.
Traverse through all these different cultures, master all these different types of people, and you are doing it for their good in some sense, but that's not what's really driving you.
What's really driving you is a kind of divine fire.
And I think that one of the things that would probably be the most off-putting to certainly a number of Christians is it's not the Logos that came first.
It's the divine fire.
Which, frankly, I agree.
I think that he actually is a bit unfair with Evola in saying that, oh, it's just tradition as such that needs to be respected.
It's a particular type.
Right.
But the fundamental argument is correct that where we are now is, he quotes Schmidt, they've put us out to pasture.
Yeah.
He talks about beautiful animals in a zoo, and you have disgusting people mocking them, and the animal feels sad, and he says, like, I felt this, I knew this, I had a connection with this animal.
But really, that's how a lot of people are now.
I mean, we're in a zoo.
A certain type of person.
A certain type of person.
A pneumatic person.
Right.
This was written years ago, so a lot of the things that we're talking about are almost spooky in terms of how prescient they are.
When we're talking about the Zoom metaphor, I can't help but think of the so-called metaverse
that they're so eager to drive people into, where they say, oh, it's this realm of expansion
and imagination.
It's like, no, it's a prison.
It's you being reduced to a consumer at the most basic level.
You've been turned digital.
And you can go from one store to another and communicate your desires for this brand as
as opposed to this brand, and that's the only thing you really have the freedom to talk
And of course also he talks about how there is no real science anymore in the same way there's no real art.
Because if you look at true science, if you look at the type of people who created real scientific discoveries, They were essentially madmen.
Yeah, he's like, they would be locked up in an insane asylum.
Well, I mean, look at Sir Isaac Newton.
Or medicated out of it.
Well, he says that explicitly.
I mean, you're giving antidepressants to little kids.
I mean, you would have Alexander the Great just be turned into a drooling idiot because you're poisoning their brains while they're still developing.
But if you look at a guy like, say, Sir Isaac Newton, and people are always like, oh, he wasted all this time on alchemy and stuff.
And it's like, well, if he wasn't that type of person, He wouldn't have discovered all the things that he did.
Exactly.
And it's the same thing with art, where it's not a well-adjusted, by today's standards, whatever that means, bourgeois person who creates something great.
It's somebody who's an obsessive.
It's somebody who's almost like a... You have to have chaos in your soul to give birth to a dancing star.
Exactly.
And everything is, as he argues, essentially a postscript to Nietzsche, but what he's giving us here is not just A way of communicating certain truths to people where it can kind of slip through the Lords of Lies and the prison they've created.
It's not just to get you thinking in a different way.
It's not just to humble you because he essentially says, like, look, these men accomplished all these things and you're nothing compared to them.
Not only are you nothing compared to them, even our elite special forces and everything else are nothing compared to them.
Right.
Like, we are in an age of total decline.
But he is saying, you have to reawaken this sense of possibility.
To me, it all comes back to that first essential question, which is, what is life?
Life is about the ownership of space.
And life can only express itself if every person is allowed to develop their full potential.
That means conflict.
And the world we're in now, because of the mania of making everything, quote unquote,
safe, it ultimately leads to a system of totalitarian control that is in some ways more horrifying
than the tyrannies of the past.
I mean, I've made this point.
It'll be in the book, and it's one of the things that I've argued about a lot.
I'm not trying to put words in Babson out there, but I've always said that so-called authoritarianism is far more free than modern democracy because you know who's sovereign.
If things are really bad, you can at least say, hey, we can replace this guy and something will change.
How would you even do that in the United States?
In 2016, the American people elected someone who had no business even being a serious candidate.
But the people's desire for change was so great that they put Donald Trump into power.
Right.
And nothing changed.
The same people are in charge.
That should raise certain questions about the legitimacy of our system and the so-called will of the people.
And furthermore, the will of which people?
Because, frankly, the opinions of most people are not really their opinions.
It's just stuff that they've been given.
They've been given it like they've been given a prescription slip.
That's it.
I'm going to read what I think is probably the best laugh-out-loud excerpt of it.
And you're going to think it's absurd, but I think that there is a greater truth here.
This is the secret of the book that within the lies, and he doesn't do irony, so I'm not going to call them jokes, but within the Absurdisms.
Yes.
There are greater truths contained within them.
And I think he's essentially correct.
And I quote, I've heard rumors that as you go inland from Port-au-Prince, you start to see the lights of Manila and that the Caribbean islands are no different from the Philippines.
Both enjoy the grilled pork, the rice with cheese, the lights like spaghetti with ketchup and hot dogs are spam.
And I hear certain other things also.
The slums of Bangkok are the same of those of Mexico City and Cambodia is the same as Guatemala.
Honduras is entirely fake.
It's a very humorous passage where he's casting doubt on not only all of history but all of geography.
He's saying that Mexico City is the same as Bangkok and it's an absurd... But we're seeing this in our own time.
This is one of the As bad as things are and as much as I hate Twitter in some ways and what it represents, it's one of these little windows that has been sort of accidentally opened up where we can see how our so-called leaders actually operate.
I mean, you certainly see it with celebrities and the people we're supposed to worship and to get on Twitter and you're like, wait a minute, these people aren't just, they're not just like you and me.
They're genuinely dumb.
I mean, there's no reason that we should know who these people are, but for some reason they have money and fame and power and everything else.
And then you get an even more horrifying feeling when people who are running our government Or even dumber.
I mean, let's look at the congressman who's on the Intelligence Committee tweeting out the picture of Sam Hyde as the ghost of Kiev and saying that this is real.
But we're seeing everyone who's listening to this.
Everyone.
It's that they know what's right, they know what's factual, and they know what's not.
And they knowingly go forward with lies because they're trying to protect the narrative.
It's worse than that. It's that they lie. It's that they know what's right, they know what's factual, and they know
what's not.
And they knowingly go forward with lies because they're trying to protect the narrative.
And that raises certain questions about, well, what if it was always this way?
Because it probably was.
It probably was.
I mean, we have direct video evidence that contradicts stuff and they'll still lie about it.
Yeah.
And the Ukraine situation is the most extreme.
I saw the latest update on that is the pregnant woman who is in the maternity ward that was supposedly bombed by the Russians.
Right.
She is in Russia now and she gave an interview and she said that, first of all, there were The building was crawling with soldiers.
It was a barracks basically.
Right.
And that the Associated Press photographers were there and she was like telling them that she wasn't like in any trouble like nothing had happened to her or anything and they're still like taking pictures of her.
And trying to spin this story out of nothing.
John Robb, who runs Global Gorillas, that might be something to talk about someday, but he talks about these, I believe they're called emphatic triggers, where you get certain images that the media pushes, certain phrases, and it's like a, you know, rat hitting a button in a lab experiment.
Like, you know what the emotional response is going to be.
Let's not remember the great migration crisis of Europe after they took out Libya, who of course was restricting mass immigration from Africa into Europe.
Angela Merkel and other leaders were going to stop this uncontrolled flow of people.
I'm not even going to say that this would be my primary concern, but let's say you're an egalitarian.
Adopting what passes for modern morality that uncontrolled rush was bad for those people as well as Europeans.
I mean you people drowning and dying and killing each other and everything else.
But why did it ultimately go forward even though there's really no rational argument for why this is a good idea unless you just want to destroy Europe.
It was because of that picture of the kid who drowned.
And then you find out the details like, oh wait, they were in Turkey.
They were not in danger.
There was no reason to go for this thing unless you were just going for welfare.
But they had that picture.
They used the emphatic triggers.
And supposedly that alone is what made Angela Merkel Chancellor of Germany.
Yeah, and how many people have put up Ukrainian flags on their cars or something because they saw Ghost of Kiev, Snake Island, The Maternity War, The Theater Bombing, which they still haven't come up with any casualty numbers on because I think the civilians were cleared out of it beforehand.
And there were rumors that it was being used as a military structure.
And it's not even a question of, oh, take this side in a geopolitical dispute or this side, and I don't want to get too much into Ukraine or Russia.
The point is we see the lies being manufactured in real time.
And the only reason that they're ultimately rebutted, although not in the minds of the many because the rebuttal is always whispered, is because of overwhelming evidence.
But even a hundred years ago, It's possible entire events were manufactured.
Forget that.
I mean, I've been doing some research on the so-called Civil Rights Movement and what was going on then.
And you'd be amazed at the stories that were being told then about how these people who were doing these voting marches were actually like leaving ruin and destruction and crime in their wake.
Where, of course, the only thing we ever learned from it is just pictures of guys in suits and ties waving American flags.
We know the destructiveness of certain movements and how the media covered for it.
I'm reading a book, The Race Beat, where the reporters essentially say it's our job to guard these guys against any negative publicity and make sure that they win their political struggle.
Take a step back from that and you really start going down a rabbit hole where you start to flirt with madness because you say, well, how do we know anything about history?
And I quote, what if there is no firm ground to what we receive from history and the continuity we think we have is actually a jumbled and confused mess that events from antiquity have been confused with events from the Middle Ages, for example.
I found the suggestion of Fomenko that the Crusades and the Trojan War were really the same event.
It would be so disorienting that I had to act out in a very vehement and stern way that day later.
At the lounge, when the bouncer asked me if I was on drugs, and I pushed his forehead away from me in a gesture of majesty and power, I was soundly beaten up by his goons in the alley.
Yeah, this is still part of his passage, casting doubt on history.
That's why it works!
You have to express it in these ways.
It was just a clip I saw but I remember when things were really getting out of control with George Floyd and everything else and Sam Hyde put out a video and he said the mechanisms in which power is exercised are so So crazy and subtle and weird that you can't even begin to talk about them without sounding like a lunatic.
Exactly.
And so you almost have to do it this way because it's the only way for you to say, okay...
I'm grasping.
I've seen the point but I'm also not going to lose my mind.
It's also more memorable.
It's a very effective style because no one's going to forget that image.
Right.
And then the image sticks with you and then the idea sticks with you.
So it's a very powerful way of communicating.
We'll have to go into a couple different passages from the book so we can just riff off of them directly.
BAP is kind of famous, I guess, for on Twitter posting images of muscular male models usually taunting Ben Shapiro usually taunting Ben Shapiro or other different scolds in the media and There's debate about whether this is like homosexual or not, but he actually makes very compelling arguments in in the book about hormones and about how
The body is a reflection of your hormones, obviously.
Hormones are big magic.
Yeah, whether you're obese or muscular has a lot to do with testosterone levels, estrogen levels, cortisol levels, all these different things.
And that reflects your lifestyle, it reflects your mindset, and he would say it reflects the amount of divine fire that you've been imbued with.
Right.
But he says that One of the reasons he does this is he thinks that the ideal male form, and this is an idea I think that would resonate with the Greeks, with the classical mind, is that the ideal male form and female form is an expression of
Is an expression of of an ideal an idealized form of life where the energies of Let's say the life force right have conspired in such a way to to turn this out and everyone is odd by by the beauty by the by the prowess by the health of all of it, and it's a way of saying no to everything that is And it's something, I'll let you read the passage in a second, and you could say, well this is a little weird, right?
You're on Twitter, here's some guy in a bathing suit.
What's going on here?
Take a step back.
And you know, there's long excerpts of the book where he's talking about homosexuality and transsexuality and various theories about this stuff.
The points I would make is first, You could say, well, why is all this stuff about body image and everything else?
Well, we are getting a dose of that from the other direction, but you think it's normal.
Exactly.
Because it's being pushed by mainstream things.
Like, there's some entertainer called, I don't know, Lizzo?
I don't know who she is or what she does or whatever.
All I know is she's just some fat woman.
Yeah.
And they just keep pushing this and saying, look how great this is.
Now, I don't know anything about this.
Right.
But for some reason I have to know who this is and Be told that being fat is the greatest thing in the world and that this is something people should almost aspire to.
Now they've got like Bruce Jenner going on as a Fox News.
A Fox News!
A Fox News.
It's just they blast you with ugliness both in bodies, the people they put before us all the time and say that we're supposed to think they're attractive and of course in architecture and things like that.
It's just a big middle finger that just rots your mind.
Right.
Here's a passage.
That's on this wavelength.
It says, The gods that surely exist but remain hidden have the most beautiful bodies we can imagine.
They appear to the ancient Greeks in dreams.
Contrary to this exists the surfeit of flesh we see on the obese and in general the lassitude, the spiritual obesity, not only of modern life but of many historical forms of life as well.
The domestic life of the village, of the village sewer, of the feuded valleys, of matriarchy and domestics, of slaves, the pollution of cities built on filth, the life of the swamp, the life of the human animal collapsed to mere life, life for the sake of life, as it devolves to the yeast form aesthetically, morally, intellectually, physically.
On the other side is the life of the immortal gods who live in pure mountain air, and the sign of this life, where energy is marshaled to the production of higher order, is the aesthetic physique, the body in its glorious and divine beauty.
What of the mind then?
Well, as rare as beautiful bodies are, the mind in the same condition is even more rare.
Let us strive in our decrepit, cancerous, and feuded world for what is concrete and what we can try to attain.
Those who forget the body to pursue a quote perfect mind or quote perfect soul have no idea where to even start.
Only physical beauty is the foundation for a true higher culture of the mind and spirit as well.
Only sun and steel will show you the path.
No argument there.
It's worth noting, obviously when I was working in the conservative movement, a lot of evangelical Christians, and there's even a survival of this idea among them, the idea of the resurrection body, right?
When the dead rise from the grave, when Christ returns, you get a perfected body.
It's a physical thing and there's a lot of discussion in those circles about what this means and how it looks, but it's essentially a carryover from the classical world and this idea that the gods are essentially idealized forms of us.
Right.
And even the Bible, you know, God created us in His image.
Exactly.
So if you say, okay, His image, what would that be?
It would obviously have to be something perfected, it would obviously have to be something that inspires awe and majesty, as opposed to, I don't know, whatever they're pushing on pop culture or MTV or whatever else.
Does MTV even exist anymore?
I'm not even sure.
Couldn't tell you.
The case here is subtle despite some of the kind of absurdist and what you might think are overblown statements, but there's actually a lot here that you need to take a step back and think about and they're actually challenging.
So for example, One of the most common things, I mean it's taking place with Disney right now, right?
Is this idea that everything is being sexualized and that we live in a hyper-sexual culture.
But at the same time you're also seeing fertility drop.
Right.
You're also seeing families fall apart.
Impotence.
Right.
Erectile dysfunction, all those sorts of stuff.
And a million causes for this.
Water, food, lifestyle, whatever else.
One of the biggest challenges for those of us who are identitarians, for those of us who are white advocates, is you could say, oh, it's the media and they're just pushing this stuff.
I fall into this trap sometimes.
But if you look at a country like Japan, many of the problems we're talking about are actually much worse there.
And you can't say that there's some hostile media preaching down to them that they're evil.
I mean, after all, Mr. Taylor talks about Japan almost as an example of how things could be, or could have been.
Yeah, on the policy level.
Yeah, on the policy level.
But the deeper sickness of life falling apart, that's there too, and it's actually worse than here.
A lot of the book is, in fact, about how This idea of Asia being somehow superior, or that it was superior at some point, is completely false.
Because he sees it as mere yeast life.
I'm not sure he includes the Japanese in that, but... Life of the longhouse.
He says even the Japanese.
Well, it's certainly how it's happening now.
And I quote, It's not really hyper-sexualization, but the devolution of the spirit to the lassitude of a diffuse and weak sexuality.
Life in own space becomes drained of energy through low-grade, pointless titillation.
And NoFap is a kind of cargo cult that tries to re-establish energy in order on path of ascent.
Sometimes, however, it's a successful cargo cult, but whether it works or no can be seen usually within a week.
As he says, this is not a book about self-improvement.
Obviously, it's kind of bracketed by these humorous, absurdist statements that contain greater truths.
We are living in a culture that does seem to be hyper-sexualized and very degenerate, but then if you actually look at the... I mean, I hate to talk about this kind of stuff because I'm enough of a prude to feel uncomfortable with it, but if you look at the polls, The amount of people who can't have sex is going up.
Yeah.
The incel thing is like a modern phenomenon.
The amount who never have.
Right.
Even very young people.
And more importantly, if you look at how many people are having kids, obviously that's plummeting.
And poll after poll after poll shows that the people who, and again self-reported so who knows, but the people who have the best sex lives tend to be married Christians.
Yeah.
I mean, and I'm not saying that, I mean he wouldn't say, I don't think he would say that Conservative Christianity is the thing that people need to be aspiring to, but it has enough in it.
It has enough remnants of something better that they actually are superior than What the liberal media promotes in terms of even something like sex.
Yeah, well they have a directed sexuality and it's not just diffuse and constantly titillated.
They avoid that.
It's been turned into a product.
They avoid pornography, they avoid sexual temptations and extramarital.
And this is the sort of thing that most people could take for granted not that long ago, but now that's been taken away.
And so it becomes an actual effort for people to get married, to have kids, have a family.
Certainly BAP, I don't think, would say that settling down and having a family is the ideal that we should be aspiring to, but I think for a lot of us that is what we have, what we want, or what we want other people to have I guess.
And I think it's still a precondition of some of the more heroic things that he's talking about.
I mean, you have to have some sort of a base level of a healthy culture before you can start generating the types of people who go out and have adventures and sort of drag humanity upward along with them, even if they're just doing it for their own glory.
Exactly.
I think you would say that the base of society is going to have family formation and so on, but that they're Exceptional individuals within, which is primarily who his book is directed at, who he's exhorting to go forward and try and conquer space.
Right.
You know, try and free humanity and certainly the Western world from the chains under which we toil.
The iron prison, right.
The iron prison.
And this is absolutely 100% needs to be the priority, the goal, the purpose of life for everyone involved in this movement or sympathetic to the movement or even knows of the movement.
There has to be the conquest of space.
There has to be the conquest of something that is truly ours.
There has to be the conquest of something that is outside their world.
And this is also why he's talking about, you know, small piratical bands of people.
We can talk about how this is actually done in practical terms.
He doesn't get into that too much.
It's more the mindset.
But you do have to have that mindset first that you're not here to just be a good citizen under the current system.
And this is important for us as white advocates because we sort of have this split personality in that will say, well look, white people commit less crime.
They create more orderly societies.
They go along with what the people in power tell them.
And therefore we generate greater GDP.
And if we had a white society, it would be a better liberal democracy or something like that.
I'm not even saying that's false.
I mean, that's true.
That's obviously true.
And that's also, even the people who don't admit it, those are the forces that determine
where people move, raise their kids, feel safe.
But at the same time, we don't want to feel safe.
We actually have to seek out conflict.
We actually have to seek to sharpen our claws.
We have to push ourselves as far as we can go.
Because if we don't do that, we're failing.
And if we're not fully developing our potential, As he says, if you're not reaching beyond life, you're already dead.
What's the point of him being here?
It's interesting.
As we said, this book was written several years ago and one of the real concepts that he says you need to completely wrap your head around and understand inside and out is the idea of owned space.
Space, which is not truly yours.
Territory that's not truly yours.
And he means that in a physical sense, in the way that a predator needs territory in which to hunt, but he also means mental space as well.
But in terms of physical space, It's interesting that this whole Great Reset idea has been passed around.
This is why we're talking about this book now.
Whatever his original message, and we can never go back to 2016, and I think that's a problem the movement still has.
If we can just go back, the circumstances are different, the internet climate was different, we're in a different world now.
In some sense, this book is the product of its time.
Read certain things and say, well, that's not quite how it worked out, but some of it is positively spooky.
I mean, just this excerpt here and think about this in regard to what they were telling us about COVID and some of the things that we know we absolutely know now we're not true.
The modern peasant just replaces the artificial prejudices of superstitions and village old wives tales with the superstitions of science, which he receives ready-made from authorities among the popularizers of science.
He loves them because of the creature comforts he believes they provide through technology.
He is a cargo cultist.
He knows nothing of what goes into the discoveries of science, nor the way the substance is transmitted among scientists.
He just has a propagandized image of some of the results.
This is no different from belief in big magic.
Which is how many primitives think of science, the big magic of the white man.
One of the big, forget even COVID and Great Reset and whatever conspiracy theory you might have, because fact is, You know, I'm sure the most outlandish conspiracy theory five years from now might actually be true.
I mean, they say it explicitly.
They're like, you will own nothing.
You won't be happy.
You won't own land.
But there's a bigger crisis going on in science now, which even in their own publications they talk about, which is the crisis of replication.
And I'm not just talking about social sciences, which we can't really call science.
Certainly not the way it's done now.
Even what you would consider to be the basic things, things like the effectiveness of cancer treatments.
Right.
They've done studies where they say, okay, these studies said if you do this, you will get these results.
I am going to replicate this experiment.
Oh wait, I got totally different results.
So all these things that we've been saying for decades about how to treat a certain thing or approach a certain thing are wrong.
Right.
And then you said, well, why is it still going forward?
And it's going forward the same reason that many bad political things go forward.
It's because... Corruption.
Corruption, but also complacency and inertia.
I mean, if you've got something that people take for granted, it's going to take a lot.
It's like a rock that settles in mud.
And once it settles, it takes a lot more effort to push it out than if it was just on flat land.
Right.
We're not even moving forward, even as we have, oh, studies say this, and look at this thing, and there's a new biotech company, but we're actually going backwards in terms of what we're able to achieve.
Right.
I mean, one of the things that maybe divides people on our side, because some people have gone all the way and said, oh, it didn't happen, the moon landing and space exploration.
I think one of the reasons why people are going for that theory now is because it is genuinely hard to explain how a country that had less power in its devices than my cell phone was able to go to the moon, and yet modern America seems incapable of it.
In terms of, if you were taking a broad look at progress, technological progress, If some alien was looking at us, you'd conclude we're going backward, because what have we created?
We've got a bunch of creature comforts that actually make our lives worse in terms of psychology and in terms of their social impact.
And, you know, I'll just say this in passing, then we'll return to the core themes, but they were talking about young women and TikTok and how having a mental illness has now become Right.
sort of an identity, the same way all these newly invented sexualities are an identity.
So people are just giving, diagnosing themselves with borderline personality disorder, then
going to doctors to get the drugs for it, and then eventually they actually end up manifesting
it.
Yeah.
I mean this is...
Or developing other problems with those drugs that then need to have further medications.
And this sounds like something that you can have a bit of distance from, but when you're a parent, especially, you really start to get a chill down your spine when you realize how truly demonic and sinister is the system that we're pushing people into.
Well, and on the COVID note, BAP has had a lot to say about All the lockdowns and all this stuff as they've happened and unfolded.
But really, the way that he's framed it, not in this book, but certainly this book speaks to these ideas, is you basically have older people who are the ones who are truly vulnerable to COVID enacting all of these strictures on children as young as three, you know, and Putting them on them and in his view.
This is just part of a broader trend that happens within societies of trying to quell the passionate fiery rebellious nature of especially young men and domesticate them and cut them down and you think about what young men and and women have been forced to do over the past couple of years and Covering their faces maintaining distance from each other staying in houses not participating in sports Not you know people didn't have homecomings or proms.
I mean things that were just Regular parts of the life of youth, you know parties stuff like that You couldn't go to your college campus or if you could you were locked in your dorm.
I mean this it You know, it was done ostensibly for health reasons, but if it wasn't intentionally this, it's certainly the effect, is to try to domesticate and quell that spirit.
We don't even need to get into, oh, the vaccine, or this strain, or that strain, or everything else.
The thing that brought it home to a lot of people is when you saw these lockdowns being enforced on little kids.
Right.
No risk.
Right.
But celebrities and politicians, they didn't have to do this.
They didn't have to do the mask laws.
And it became very hard.
That does make it seem very conspiratorial.
Yeah, right.
And you don't, I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but They're doing their best to make it look like one.
Yeah.
I mean, if you were writing a fictional book and you're like, here's some German guy you've never heard of, like, writing this stuff about how everything is going to happen, then they're going to push through all these rules, which they themselves don't have to obey.
That's one of the big things he talks about, the people of true power who don't have to obey the laws that they supposedly have imposed on everybody else.
I mean, if you made this up, You would say this is ridiculous.
It almost reads like something out of this book.
Really, the tenor of the last few years has been so surreal and disorienting that it is almost like a page out of Bronze Age Mindset.
What is this power that's doing things?
He says, I wanted to expose the grim shadow of a movement that is hidden behind events of our time and from before.
This is a great power that acts like a ghost.
And this is all I'm really stuck with me is it hides in its own darkness and has been absorbed by the lands and the people so that you just can't really see it anymore.
There's just an Eldritch quality embedded in things and on some faces.
And that idea of it being eldritch, that idea of there being something sinister and almost like spiritually unhealthy, a lot of people have been throwing around on Twitter where they said like, oh, these people are literal demons or something like that.
And whatever your religious beliefs, I'm not terribly interested in total belief, whatever.
You do have this sense that we're in the beginning stages of a kind of horror movie.
We're on the surface, there's a certain regularity, but you can tell that there's something underneath.
And it's not happening by accident.
Like, there's a will behind it, but if you try to, like, pin it down or identify it, it becomes very difficult.
And this is also one of the problems with some of the things he talks about later in the book of political questions.
Because there is ultimately no one, in a so-called liberal democracy, where the people supposedly rule, which of course they don't.
I mean, really, democracy is laundered oligarchy in the media rules, or those who control media rule.
But if the people rule under this theory, there's no one to be held accountable.
There's no way to change anything.
It doesn't matter which party's in power, it doesn't matter what you do, because you're just stuck in this iron prison with the Lords of Lies speaking down at you.
And some of the passages that people might find a little weird about like nightclubs and this and that and the other thing, it's because these are like the tiny little escapes that aren't totally under control.
And so that's why there's a certain vitality if you go toward those spaces.
His commentary about, you know, kind of shadow forces and elites who are behind things, it's unclear whether he, you know, genuinely believes some of this stuff, but it's an idea which... More people talk that way now than when he wrote this book, though.
Well, I know, but that's what I'm saying, is that it's crazy, this stuff that's happened since he's written the book, where you're like, man, surely, surely not, like the Jeffrey Epstein stuff.
And the guy named Maxwell is just, it's, again, it's like something that if you're writing some crazy fiction, you're like, they're, they're going to suicide the guy.
He's got this island and he flies all these elites out there and all this stuff.
And you're like, man, this is like the craziest, the craziest thing.
And then now you have, um, uh, Madison Cotham, this freshman congressman.
And they're trying to take him out.
Exactly.
Like he came out and said that he was invited to some kind of orgy or something in D.C.
by like an older congressman.
And basically saying this is the kind of corruption that happens in DC and, uh, you know, they could have just let it lie and just ignore it or whatever, but the whole Republican establishment is like denouncing him and like demanding he like, well, they don't want him to truly explain himself because then he'd be naming names.
Right.
But, uh, they're just, they're trying to shut him down and it's like, I mean, of course this stuff is happening.
Yeah.
And it's the sort of thing that if somebody had brought it to you five years ago, even if you said worked for Amaranth, somebody wrote an article saying, okay, there's this guy who all the financiers and politicians do, and there's an island, and there's a weird temple, and there's all this stuff.
The FBI has seized the stuff.
But then they lost it.
If somebody brought that to you, not only would you say, this guy is crazy, you would deliberately sever all contact with this person because you wouldn't want to get dragged down into whatever lunacy this is.
But this is real.
Yeah.
And this is just the stuff we know about.
Yeah.
So what don't we know?
Everyone knows that at some level.
I mean, the Jeffrey Epstein thing I think was interesting because Basically, everybody, left or right, said, okay, this happened, but because they were able to vaguely pin it on their political opponents.
I mean, the Democrats were saying, like, oh, he and Trump were close friends, and the Republicans would be, oh, him and all these financiers and Gates and blah, blah, blah.
But everybody just kind of acknowledged, like, yeah, this is who rules us, but what are you going to do?
Yeah.
You know?
Exactly.
Well Bap would say we need to go off and form a piratical conqueror race and... Working on it.
But I mean there's just this sense of life and that's a Randian term.
I'm certainly not comparing Bap to Rand.
I think you'd be pretty offended by that but... I actually think there is a comparison there.
I mean I think that Rand's phrase is actually...
I'm not endorsing a philosophy, but that concept is very positive.
Well, that one is.
What I would say is that I've kind of reduced Randian novels, at least on some level, to like Nietzscheanism on the material plane.
Right.
It's like you're building buildings and stuff like that.
Whereas Nisha arguably was much more about the mind.
It was about, you know, conquering, you know, truth, like bearing truth, having the courage and the tenacity to discover the reality of things.
And to look into the black hole that emerged after the death of God and not look away.
Exactly.
And to fashion a new sense of life, we could say.
But BAP, I would say, is like Nietzscheanism applied to action.
I wouldn't call him an active nihilist though.
No, I'm not saying he's a nihilist.
He's very constructive, but he's, although, I mean, he is kind of an active nihilist in that he thinks the current system needs to be wiped out, but replaced with something more.
Right.
And there's also this sense that, I mean, again, there is this concept, however vague, this idea of a divine fire that is reaching for something beyond itself.
And even the suggestion of the gods that surely exist, even if he's just speaking metaphorically there.
That does suggest that he does see an objective order behind things.
That there is actually an absolute standard of good and truth and beauty to be pursued.
So in that sense, it's not just nihilism.
The standard is ultimately vitality, to put it simply.
That's why I say it's like Nietzschean in that sense.
Yeah, but when you think of the people who Still have this sense of like mystery and an aura of destiny about them.
He talks about the idea of it even happening in our time is so baffling and outside our experience.
We don't even know how we would react.
I mean, Trump, however small, A step it was towards that kind of ideal.
I mean, you had fanaticism in 2016 of a type that I've never seen for a political figure, and to some extent it's still continuing.
I mean, they're still pushing them.
Yeah, still sitting at the gym.
That's all they talk about on TV is whatever Trump said.
Right, right.
Gosh, get over it.
You're right.
And it's because there's this ideal of something that could represent a true alternative.
I'm not saying Trump does, but there's This yearning for something different because I think at some level people understand that the system that we have fails Fukuyama's test.
I mean it does not provide satisfaction.
Instead it drives people into a kind of madness and because the only thing they know how to pursue is egalitarianism they just keep pursuing it more and more fanatically.
Mentally and even physically, you know, tearing themselves apart in this search for victimhood.
And at the end of the day, they don't find satisfaction, but as he points out, just sort of this demonic madness against their political opponents, who are usually just normal people having families and not doing anything.
I think there's a real yearning for that now and that it goes a long way towards explaining what Trump was and still is to so many people.
out of time, something completely unexpected in the age of middle class mediocrity and
hypocritical democracy that was just then coming about.
For this reason, all the higher spirits of the 19th century, all the great artists, the
writers, they threw themselves at the feet of his memory.
He seemed to represent the possibility of higher aspirations in our time."
I think there's a real yearning for that now and that goes a long way towards explaining
what Trump was and still is to so many people.
Yeah, the Trump phenomenon from Bapst, Bapst appreciated Trump and he talks about Trump
in this book quite a few times.
Right.
But what Trump really did was he threw things in flux.
He somehow, he said, very far from this possibility in our time, that we at least make such a type somehow believable.
Yeah.
Which I think is about right.
Trump makes such a type.
In 2015, 2016.
Right.
He believed that the exceptional individual is possible.
Right.
I want to read one other passage as we're kind of wrapping this up, but just his orientation towards his own book.
He says, You must not understand this.
This is not a self-help book, and I can't help you with how to live.
No one can.
I'm concerned with the subjection of life and the suffocation of vitality.
I hope to show you that things don't need to be this way and that you don't need to limit yourself to small things.
Above all, you must reach for the great aim, physical and military independence.
Only the warrior is a free man.
The only right government is a military government, and every other form is both hypocritical and destructive of true freedom.
You must aim high.
Band with your friends on the way of power, and know that nothing has the right to stop you, and nothing can stop you.
I'm very tempted to end it there, except for the practical political advice he gives a little later on.
Yeah.
which is, he says, I believe that democracy is the final cause of all the
political problems I describe here, but in the short run, democracy, the will of the people, is
on our side because the democracies have been hijacked by a stupid and
corrupt elite.
The nations face extinction in an era of permanent civil war
because this elite wants to pillage and pillage, and wants to flood them with the...
shit...
of the world.
I am a prude.
This is the immediate threat and on this you can be allied with people who otherwise may not shoot for the same star you do.
If Ann Coulter or Pat Buchanan were in charge, you would get 99% of what you want.
Therefore, use them as models to solve the problems that face you and don't scare the peoples with crazy talk if you want to move things politically.
Let the normies have their normal lives and paint our enemies as the crazies, which they are, and as the corrupt vermin they are.
If you haven't compromised yourself going into political life, maybe and use Trump as a model for success.
Those of you who choose this path, if you like this book or other things I say, should denounce it.
Disavow me if ever asked about it and denounce also all other crazy ideas.
I think that, I mean, I just said, you know, we got to get past 2016, but there's one thing here that we should really
address.
The thing that was different about 2016 is you were able to do these two things simultaneously.
You had people talking about a new order of things built on entirely different principles.
I mean, this is why the God Emperor Trump memes and everything else, that we're going to sweep things away and we're going to begin anew.
Because clearly, it's not just that the system isn't working, it's killing us.
It's destroying us physically.
And I'm not just talking about Whites, and spiritually.
I'm not just talking about whites, I'm talking about everybody.
I mean, you look at the polls about people's sense of happiness, antidepressant uses, deaths of despair, nobody's happy under this.
But the people who are the most unhappy, and he talks about this, are also the fiercest defenders of this system.
It's the people who are the most screwed up, the people who are the most medicated, the people who are the most confused about their identity, who are just ferocious in trying to prevent any change.
It's your typical profile of an Antifa.
Heavily medicated.
20 different genders before breakfast and everything else.
But if you look at what they are...
It's the militant wing of the system.
That's it.
I mean, they actually are cops in a much more meaningful way than actual cops are.
Because as we've seen, the law is... I mean, what words the law have don't really matter.
I mean, power is something different than law.
And the reality of how power is exercised is something different from law.
We now have this system where You have militant opposition from, in some sense, some of the very people you're trying to save, especially when you have respectable white people.
In 2016 you had this sort of dual offensive where you could talk about a fundamentally new order of things and at the same time put your hopes behind this mainstream guy, or mainstream candidate I should say, and that's gone.
You can't do that now.
And I guess one of the things that I would advise people, and this is coming from me, but I like to think BAP would agree with me on this, is that you really do need to pick one path or the other.
The people I think who get in the most trouble are the people, and no fault of their own because things were different four years ago, you just couldn't imagine these circumstances, are people who get a normal, high-paying job, are essentially succeeding in the bourgeois sense, but then have this kind of double life where they're also trying to be a revolutionary.
And you can't do that anymore.
That possibility is gone.
It really does have to be one or the other.
And so if you say, OK, I am going to take the political path, what he's saying here is correct.
I mean, you should present yourself in normal ways with vocabulary that people understand.
You know, Saul Alinsky, you can't go beyond what your constituency is ready for, what your audience is ready for.
On the other hand, if you're saying, OK, I'm going to dedicate myself fully to something new, well, you've got to tribe up.
I mean, you've got to find people who share your vision and build something in the real world, not just talk about it, not just write books about it, not just have Discord chats about it.
Physical.
A cult of action.
Yeah, and it also has to be controlled space.
There has to be something where it's like, this is ours.
However crazy everything else is in the world, this spot right here is ours.
It belongs to nobody else.
But even with all of that, and even with all of the stuff that we talk about, and we talk about this on the podcast sometimes when we're talking about like Evola and radical traditionalism and gods and religion and all these things.
At the end of the day, We're not the crazy ones.
Like, they are.
And all you have to do is just go on Twitter and remove the filter of saying, because mainstream establishments are preaching this, it is normal.
But just take a step back and see what they're really saying.
And you recognize not just how insane this is, but how evil it is.
I mean, the controversy in Florida right now, I think, would be a good example of that.
It's really important that teachers talk to little kids about their sexuality.
Why?
How is this even up for debate?
Or even the idea that kids don't belong to their parents and they belong to the state, i.e.
the lords of lies who operate through the state.
Because the state, it's mean, it's not an end.
Mentally separating yourself from the system you live under and saying my loyalty is to this ideal or these friends that I surround myself with.
And he talks a great deal about true friendship and how hard that is in our time.
I mean, I think that's the most productive thing you can do.
But it's got to be one or the other.
Even people like us, frankly, we were on that dual path for a while, and you couldn't do even what we did five years ago.
I mean, you really do have to pick one path and then follow it to the end.
And as far as my closing argument would be for this, I strongly recommend reading this book.
I'm not saying you have to agree with everything in it, but it will shift your mindset and get you thinking.
But it has to be followed with action.
When you read something like this, you don't have the right to just sit down and say, and now I'm going to watch football.
Or now I'm going to play video games for 30 hours.
There has to be something that follows it.
Because otherwise, you can't tell yourself, oh, I'm different than all the sheep out there, but your lifestyle is exactly the same as everybody else's.
And if you are going to go for the political path, and you are going to be essentially a nationalist conservative, a Buchanan type, an Ann Coulter type, that has to be done with strategy.
I mean, if that's your path...
Then that's it.
You really do need to make the deliberate choice of, this is what I'm going to do.
I am not going to get involved in these more extreme things.
I am not going to join with a group.
I am not going to... I'm going to plan my life to be a political leader that can kind of nudge people in the right direction.
And maybe I'll be influenced by these other guys, but I'll never be directly tied to them.
We need people like that.
But in many ways, I think that's far harder than living a life totally dedicated to your principles.
Because, I mean, you've got to constantly have self-control that's almost superhuman.
Yeah, constant code-switching.
Yeah, code-switching.
That's exactly right.
The white version of code-switching.
That's it.
White nationalists have more in common with blacks than anyone else because we're constantly code-switching around.
Yeah, that's about right.
But you still have this desire.
Have you seen this?
This is kind of a topical thing, but like the dark MAGA hashtag where they're basically like, oh, he's back, but this time it's going to be, you know, punish Trump, and we're going to do all these things and unrealistic, but ultimately we do kind of recognize that these things have to happen.
And politically, if we're talking about classical Ideals.
We're doing this podcast not long after Mr. Taylor and I talked about Venner.
And of course, what did he say?
He said, the Iliad is essentially what the West is.
Like, that is our foundational text, our civilizational text.
And if we look at examples from history, you know, when the American Revolution started, George Washington would stage the play Cato for a soldier, even at like Valley Forge and stuff, people freezing watching this play.
What is the point?
You know, opposing Caesar and opposing, you know, standing up for the Republic and everything else.
But if you look at what the Republic was at that time, it was already dead.
Like, Cato was kind of the last person who really believed this stuff.
For everybody else, it was just a cynical cover for gaining money and power.
And that's why this idea of nemesis, which he talks about a lot, of sweeping things away so something new can come, something more vital, something healthier, something that can push the upward development of life, of true life, of higher life, of specialized life, was ultimately necessary.
And I think we're at that point in the West, it's just how do you go through that transformation?
Because, I mean, you can have whatever fantasies you want about being Caesar, or following a Caesar, but look at our military leaders now.
Find me one that you'd be willing to follow, you know?
Well, I think you would say the first thing you should do is go to the gym.
Yes.
And on that note, we should probably go catch a Lyft.
Agreed.
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