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Dec. 23, 2021 - Radio Renaissance - Jared Taylor
01:05:48
Horse Race
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Hey everyone, welcome back to Left, Right, and White.
I'm Gregory Hood.
I'm here with Chris Roberts, and today we are going to be discussing the question of whether Hispanics can be won into the Republican Party, and whether we've essentially been wrong about what we've been saying for decades.
So, it's really, as you said to me earlier today, this really kind of sums up the question of whether there's going to be a United States.
Because if there is going to be a United States, this whole project, it's because Steve's out of futurism, as some have called it.
I mean, that kind of it's baked into the cake.
It has to happen.
Otherwise, there is no future for America.
Am I overstating that?
No, I don't think so, and for those of you who don't spend all of your waking hours online, castizo means one quarter Amerindian and three quarters white, as opposed to mestizo, which is half and half.
Like, generally Mexico is considered mestizo, but the nations of the Southern Cone of South America, Chile, Argentina, and Uruguay are considered castizo because they're whiter than Mexico, considerably whiter, but they're also considerably less white than the United States, Europe, So, Castizo Futurism has been this online term that's been batted around, I think the first time I saw it was probably 2015, 2016, about the idea that, you know, with the influx of immigrants from Mexico and Central America, we're not going to become a Mestizo nation, because they're going to mix with, you know, the native white population, so we're going to become, we're going to develop the pallor, say, of Argentina at Chile.
And, yeah, you know, it's not always fun to admit this, but Yeah, just the demographic numbers are in.
I mean, America is going to be a Hispanic nation by the end of the century.
Again, it's not going to be Mexico, but we are well past the point of being able to return to like a 1950s, 1960s white America that's just It's just not really in the cards.
It's not to say that America couldn't hypothetically break up into separate nations, some of which would be white.
That's kind of a separate thing.
And then, yeah, we decided to talk about this idea that Hispanics are moving towards the GOP, because ever since the Virginia gubernatorial election of last month, a lot of people have been talking about it, and that, you know, right now, that election is viewed as, you know, nobody quite sure if it's an outlier, if the data is wrong, or if it's a harbinger, right?
Like, if this portends something.
Oh, go back to President Trump's re-election effort.
I mean, he won.
It's kind of funny because my entire life dealing with Conservatism Inc.
was just these endless stupid panels about how do we win the Hispanic vote?
And usually their answer was, Amnesty for everyone, open borders, you know, if we portray ourselves as helpless and dismissive of our national identity as possible, they'll like us or something.
That seemed to be the theory.
But actually, President Trump has made much more progress with this demographic simply by, you know, in his fumbling type of way, trying to sound like an anti-political correctness, anti-woke, pro-law and order message.
And that's only been strengthening in the time since.
And of course, you know, it's just purely the economic stuff.
I mean, they don't, Hispanics aren't tied into a system of government patronage as solid as our, you know, black political activists.
I mean, so many, even in the bills that they've been talking about passing in DC, so much of this are handoffs to specific institutions like historically black colleges and universities.
Even President Trump did that.
But you don't really see the same sort of thing for Hispanics, and that's probably because, I mean, we, the New Century Foundation, published Hispanics as a statistical portrait.
It clearly means something.
It means something to the government in terms of how you're treated under the law and everything else.
But I've always thought, you know, there is something kind of artificial about Hispanic as a racial category because, as even the census will tell you, Hispanics can be of any race.
Yup.
Yeah, well, which Hispanics are here is ever evolving.
You know, in the 50s and the 60s, it really meant Cubans and Puerto Ricans, and it came to mean Mexicans, and now increasingly it's coming to mean Central Americans.
And racially, all of these groups are really, really distinct.
But we're grappling with a couple of different data points.
right now.
One, there's this big exit poll for the Virginia race that showed that Glenn Youngkin won the Hispanic vote and that Terry McAuliffe lost it.
Now, people have a lot of issues with exit polls for a variety of different reasons, so it's not necessarily a slam dunk that he won it.
This is something that, you know, data experts and math whizzes are going to probably spend the next couple months really trying to figure out, but What can be said at the very least is that Youngkin did well with Hispanics.
I mean, better than anybody could have guessed.
And that this also sort of fits a somewhat emerging trend of, you know, Trump dramatically improved his share of the Hispanic vote in 2020 relative to 2016.
And all of the polls that we have right now for how Hispanics feel about Biden, indicate that they're not happy with them, and all the
polls we have for Hispanic support for the midterms next year show a surprising level of Hispanic
support for the GOP. So again, all of this points to the GOP having a level of Hispanic support that
it's never had before, aside from maybe statewide races in basically exclusively Texas and
Florida.
You know, in the past, the ceiling for national support for the GOP seemed to be about 40 percent.
And that ceiling was true for every state, again, except Texas, because of its just general conservative atmosphere, and Florida because of the Cubans.
Who have always been kind of a unique case.
Right.
Both of them have always been sort of special in that way.
But again, Virginia, even if Glunkin won, even if he lost the Hispanic vote
and won as little of it as say 40%, it's still really quite impressive.
And again, that will be true in 2022, if say nationally the GOP averages 40% of the Hispanic vote.
That's really high.
I mean nobody will have it'll be the highest it's ever been except for 2004 with George W Bush and of course that's fought over by Steve Saylor and a lot of other people They they put it at 40 because initially it was put at 44 and it was Steve Saylor who?
revised it down along with along with some of the Hispanics crunching the numbers at the Center for American Progress actually and So that got revised downwards.
But again, 2004 was a really unique election.
I mean, the Bush family has Hispanics in its family.
Bush and Jeb are fluent in Spanish.
Bush had been a popular governor of Texas.
Jeb was a popular governor of Florida.
He had the incumbent's advantage.
Patriotism was at an all-time high, etc., etc., etc.
You had the gay marriage thing, which they said they were going to do something about.
And then, of course, they didn't do anything once they got in.
So even 2004, it was like, okay, even with all of those advantages, they still only got 40%.
But now it seems like what a lot of people are theorizing as to why Hispanics are moving to the right is basically two things.
One, they're sick of COVID stuff, and the Hispanics work in jobs or just kind of general fields that are really hard hit by COVID restrictions and shutdowns and all of these things, because you have the Hispanic Middle class, these sort of small business owners that hate it, and then also just Hispanic wage earners in the service sector, which are two very distinct economic classes, but both of those classes have been getting screwed by all of this COVID stuff this entire time.
Yeah, it's not the kind of thing you can just stay at home and like do Zoom seminars or something.
Right, exactly, exactly.
And then the other thing, the other theory Is that Hispanics are sick of this woke garbage and they just don't, Hispanics don't view themselves as black and they don't view themselves as owing blacks anything.
They don't think of themselves as Latinx.
Yeah, by all accounts they're annoyed at the Latinx label and they're just not into, we just don't have any polling data to suggest that they support defunding the police or reparations or any of this stuff.
So you've got these two factors.
Pushing Hispanics to the right.
Now, if that's the case, the COVID thing, I would really, really like to believe, is not going to last forever, right?
Like, eventually, I swear, we're going to go back to normalcy.
We're not going to have this social distancing.
This can't last forever.
Yeah, it can't.
I think it will.
That's a separate issue.
Bear with me on this.
Okay.
If the COVID restrictions and all of this garbage are to end, that would suggest, like once those stop being political and economic questions, well, without that factor, it's to suggest that Hispanics would swing back to the Democrats once you're no longer voting as to, once your voting isn't so tied to how much COVID is going to impact your ability to earn money, to make money, right?
And then the other thing is the question of all of these woke politics.
There are more and more people who seem to think that wokeness as a fashionable ideology of the elites is actually starting to get, I don't know, starting to go into remission, shall we say?
Remission is maybe a decent word.
You know, all of these pushes, you know, at the ballot box, a lot of these woke candidates have gotten blown out.
A lot of woke, just like woke plebiscites, like, you know, should we defund the police, have been losing.
And now, You know, when Wokeness started getting national attention in 2015, the only pushback intellectually
was the right.
It was Trump, it was Breitbart, it was the Daily Caller.
But now, it's totally, totally, totally different.
Now there is this, like, huge armada of very bright centrists who dedicate a lot of time and energy to attacking woke stuff.
I mean, even, there's even, like, a cottage industry of left-wingers who are really aggressively anti-woke.
And they now get a lot of attention.
You know, now they're linked to UnrealClearPolitics.
Now they have substacks where they're making five figures.
And none of that was true In 2016.
I know that was true in 2015, but it's true now.
Which is a great sign.
I hate all this woke stuff, right?
But, again, it's sort of like with the COVID thing.
If wokeness is getting pushed to the side, And if wokeness is going into remission, if the Democrats are going to start listening to, like, just the anti-woke kind of socialist wing of their party, or if they just become more kind of Andrew Sullivan-style or, like, Madaglasia-style centrists, well then again, if the Democrat Party stops being super woke, and its super wokeness is why Hispanics are leaving it, wouldn't Hispanics then return to the Democrat Party?
Do you follow me?
Yeah.
I mean, I think it is, a lot of it is temporary.
And also, we should point out that if you break down these polls, you get the same sort of sexual divide that you see among whites, where basically college-educated single women tend to be the group that breaks hardest for the left, whereas people change their voting behavior once they're married, once they have children.
Hispanic men vote very differently than Hispanic women.
So we shouldn't... I mean, there's a lot to break down with that, but I mean, I think Well, and the decisive factor in the Virginia gubernatorial election was was white women breaking way more than they had voted for Trump, which is great, which is great to see.
It's the people who have kids.
I mean, it's the stereotypical moms who were showing up to the school board meetings, you know, angry about CRT being taught and everything else.
And I think, you know, obviously, Hispanic women who are in the same environment were responding to the same sort of thing.
I mean, one of the things we have to talk about is this invention of the Hispanic as a statistical category.
To put it in context, what's going on right now, this is something President Trump was able to delay, but probably not stop, is North Africans and people from the Middle East, including Israelis, incidentally, are lobbying for this MENA Census category.
MENA?
MENA.
M-E-N-A.
Where basically you would get anyone from North Africa, Middle East, I'm not sure if Indians from the subcontinent would be lumped under this and whatever else, but essentially they would be broken out of instead of the white population.
We would certainly get a better look at, you know, I think what the actual racial demographic picture in America is.
But what this really means is establishing a new category that then could claim to be a victim group and which will presumably get special benefits and jobs and education and affirmative action and everything else.
Right.
Now one could argue this is what basically happened with Hispanics because there's no, as you pointed out, there's no particular shared experience that unites a guy from Spain, somebody from Brazil where they don't even speak Spanish, Somebody from Guatemala and somebody from Chile.
Like there's no united experience there, but they just kind of lumped everything together under this category of Hispanic.
And then it sort of developed its own political weight as a lot.
Yeah.
And you can argue the same sort of thing happened with Asian Americans where they're like, Oh, stop Asian American hate.
And it's like, well, what does that even mean?
And if you look at it, it doesn't mean actually stopping street crime against Asians because while we all know who's committing the street crime and we can't We're not allowed to arrest people anymore apparently, but except for like what you post on the internet.
But if you look at the Hispanic category, now you've got this whole, the usual network of NGOs and organizations and everything else that have a vital interest in keeping this category politically meaningful and something that actually attracts government money, government staff, government protection, and The question is whether you can sort of abolish that while not losing Hispanic support.
And I think the way that you do that is essentially you have to point out that if the current system stays in place, it doesn't matter if you crossed the border yesterday, you're still going to be part of the class that's paying reparations.
And there's nothing you can do or say to change that because At the end of the day, the people who are receiving these benefits don't want that many people to receive them, because if they do, you know, what they get per capita is relatively small.
I mean, the class of people who wants to be on subsidized forever, it is self-limiting.
And I think that's what's driving a lot of this book stuff here.
Yeah.
And, you know, there's also this sort of class element among white Americans where you show that you're better And other whites by showingly renouncing your own privilege while not actually doing anything in your own life.
So, I mean, you, you denounce the white privilege of like coal miners in Appalachia or something from your estate, Massachusetts or whatever it is.
And for Hispanics, I mean, that whole dynamic just isn't there.
I mean, there's nothing you don't show power by.
Showing off how socially weak you are and how willing you're willing to go along with what the media is saying and everything else There's a whole different dynamic going on.
And so a lot of you know, white liberalism just doesn't take among Hispanics but I mean we should remember of course that that there are two separate issues here one is that You know, it's race realist.
We're saying that race is a real biological thing.
So We want to know If we're going to be a Hispanic country, well, what kind of Hispanics?
Because especially if you look at the type of people who are coming from Central America, I mean, I think the best way to label them would not really be Hispanic, but indigenous, basically.
Yeah, racially, they're Amerindians.
Yeah.
Right.
And of course, Amerindians have their own set up with our government and everything else.
And then the second element is... Well, not that we're, I mean, however, I don't, I don't think it's likely that Guatemalans get their own casinos anytime soon.
I mean, I suppose crazier things have happened.
Never know.
I also don't think the Cherokees are going to be like, Oh, Hondurans.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
I've always kind of wondered about that whole immigration narrative for like, Oh, you took the country away from the Indians.
And it's like, so we're going to give it back.
And it's like, no, we're going to flood it with like even more people from the third world.
Like, all right.
If you say so.
I think that the bigger question is, I mean, I want to get rid of affirmative action.
I want to get rid of all these things that are attacking whites.
And the question is whether you can get Hispanics on board with a project of that kind or whether they think they have more to gain from this current system going on and them hoping that they can just carve out a place within it.
I think there's a certain self-limiting thing here.
I don't see Hispanics getting much if this continues to go on because right now It's entirely focused on blacks.
I mean, George Floyd is the greatest hero in American history right now.
And if you're a Hispanic who just came to this country, I mean, what do you have in common with these people?
I mean, you don't you're not even really part of the same like weird historical narrative that binds blacks and American whites together.
I mean, you're just sort of.
Coming into this centuries long tragedy, and then you have people on either side screaming at you about what you're supposed to believe and what you're supposed to say and how you're supposed to vote.
And I just don't see these people going along with it.
I think they're going to carve out their own separate political identity.
I think that, as Steve Saylor said, if you wanted to win these people over in terms of voters, you have to appeal to them as Americans and not as Hispanics, which I think is a category we should be trying to get rid of.
And in many ways, the future of the United States depends on whether these people consider themselves the heirs of the conquistadors, or whether they consider themselves the heirs of, you know, the Mayans.
And, of course, those are two different racial types.
I mean, the answer to that question might be, well, some of them actually are the heirs of conquistadors, and some of them aren't.
Well, but the majority of them actually have blood from both in their veins.
It's quite deep, I would imagine.
Listen, I mean, I have a hard time... I mean, obviously to some extent, Hispanics don't want to be lumped in with blacks and don't want to be part of a black party that supports reparations and all of this stuff.
I mean, that seems pretty true and what you've just said is solid, but it's also basically impossible to imagine Hispanics getting so worked up as a group as to be the catalyst for abolishing Affirmative action or quotas or any of these things, the way you do see Asians really spearheading those attempts.
I mean, yes, blacks benefit the most from all of these sort of special racial programs, but Hispanics benefit the second most.
And if it were a totally even playing field, right, I mean, right now Hispanics are only second to blacks in terms of special treatment.
They get the number two slot.
But if we just eliminated all government aid and special racialized categories for victim groups, and it just becomes totally meritocratic, well then Hispanics will basically move down to third.
They'll just be one above blacks.
Even just in that calculation alone, it seems as though they may not want to go all the way radical with the other racial underclass in America, but just becoming Becoming so American that they just become part of, you know, these legendary, these now notorious, you know, PTA meetings in the suburbs of Northern Virginia seems like a bit of a stretch, I've got to say.
I mean, and even again, even before there was all of this woke politics of the last 10 years, I mean, affirmative action and all of that stuff precedes it.
And just the super white Republican Party failed time and time again to get motivated to do anything about it.
Why a new, why an influx of Hispanics in the GOP would be the ones to get rid of it?
I just don't see it.
Oh, I don't think they will.
But I think that, you know, if you look at the Republican revolution and everything else in the nineties, you had the opportunity to stop immigration before it really became the nation destroying thing it is.
You had the opportunity to get rid of affirmative action.
You had the opportunity to get rid of all this stuff.
None of this was done.
And then, of course, President Trump runs on the immigration agenda in 2016, gets in, doesn't do anything except the tax cut.
So.
I mean, yes, in the sense that.
We're playing from a weaker hand than we were dealing before, but there is a certain disruptive, chaotic element which is being introduced.
And at this point, I mean, if you're listening to this podcast, I don't think we need to tell you that the purpose of the Republican Party is not to oppose what's happening.
It's to manage it.
It's also not a victory if Hispanics suddenly start voting Republican because the Republican Party is terrible and has presided over essentially the same policies as the Democratic Party.
They may verbally protest it a bit more, but they don't actually do very much.
Certainly, I don't think Virginia is suddenly going to be saved because they elected this one Republican governor who already, you know, is not exactly ruling with an iron hand stopping this stuff.
But I think if you do have this more chaotic element, I think if you do have this.
This kind of visceral populism that you'll need as an electoral tactic to win over these groups, you're going to have to start not just saying this stuff, but back it up.
Uh, with a certain kind of political style, with a certain willingness to use the power of the state, which I think has been something that's held back the American conservative movement for a long time, where they basically talk about, you know, they, their whole strategy is to basically talk about why they should be put in office and then justify their constituents, why they aren't allowed to do anything that might actually help them.
I think the calculus will change if you're dealing with Hispanic voters.
I think you're going to have to say it's going to be much more concrete.
It's going to be much more like patronage, like you put me in, I'm going to do these things.
Now, is that just kind of a cope?
Probably in terms of affirmative action still being with us.
But I mean, we have to frame our opposition in these grounds that, again, that we are the group that's being held down and that the abolition of affirmative action is not it has to be the starting point before we even talk about Preserving the United States or something like that because frankly if it if it does continue What stake do we have in the current?
political order continuing You know I mean if it's just gonna kind of get worse over the next century or whatever it is then we really shouldn't be concerned about saving the system from itself and Collapsing Hispanic America is not something that I think we should spend our lives trying to prop up.
I mean, at that point, it really is a question of trying to figure out a way out.
But if you were to save the American political system, if you were to try to keep something going, I mean, it has to begin with getting rid of affirmative action and kind of abolishing this phony statistical category that's used basically just to take money and property away from white people.
The broader point being here, even if it proves to be the case that Hispanics do end up aligning themselves with the GOP, so what?
Right.
I mean, for me, you know, Trump in the 2016 election in a lot of ways really radicalized me, because it was like, you know, the impossible happened, right?
Trump got the nomination, and then the impossible happened again.
He won the presidency, and then he still just largely governed like George W. Bush.
It's just like, well, if we can have these two just seismic miracles in our favor and still get so little good out of it, it's like, and listen, yes, it's better.
It's better than the alternative.
It's better that Hillary Clinton wasn't president.
It's better that Trump was president.
I'm not, I'm not a worse is better kind of guy, but it just seems, it seems just crazy to me to, at this point, after that experience, Be like, oh, well, we'll get them next time.
You know, we just need a Trump with brains next time.
Yeah.
I mean, there is a John Howard or J.D.
Vance and, you know, say they get, you know, 45% of the Hispanic vote, which again, I'm not saying that they, that they would for the reasons outlined at the beginning of the podcast, but then so what, what, you know, what, you know, what are these guys going to do with this Republican, this great, you know, Republican party going to do for us?
That's exactly right.
I mean, this is one of the things that we have to be thinking about.
If you say like, okay, Hispanics are, the question should not be, are Hispanics going to turn to the GOP?
The question are, what race are Hispanics?
And the answer is, it depends.
Because Hispanic, that by itself is a racially meaningless category, as far as I see it.
It doesn't tell me very much about who these people are, what their interests are.
And I think we need to like break it down a lot more, both to have some idea of how people are going to behave, but also from a white advocacy standpoint, this is also why I should be pushing to get rid of affirmative action so hard.
Steve Saylor has sort of pointed out that one party in American politics tends to be the black party and the other party tends to be the not black party.
The Democrats at this point, black identity defines them as a party.
I don't think that There's enough room, so to speak, for Hispanics to be just kind of shoved in there alongside all the other groups.
There is kind of a zero-sum patronage game going on.
All that said, we are in a much weaker position in terms of the mainstream political system than we were compared to, say, 20 years ago.
At the same time, I would argue that in terms of explicit white advocacy, we're far stronger than we were 20 years ago.
And the fact that people talk about these issues and talk about alternatives to just, you know, rotting under this current system forever.
But as you say, I mean, we basically got somebody elected on the exact platform that I think people would have regarded as the edge of what was politically possible in 2016.
And you had a congressional majority and everything else and nothing happened.
Yeah.
And so it's like, okay, now it's going to be even harder to do because you have however many years of demographic change, whatever else.
And you're probably not even going to get, well, it's certainly not going to get the Trump of 2016.
You might get Trump again, but so what?
But even if you do, I mean him or Marco Rubio or whoever, I mean, what, what exactly are they going to do that's going to meaningfully change the trajectory of this country?
Because let's face it.
At this point, it's not that the country is going to fall apart.
That's not my fear.
My fear is that the country doesn't fall apart and it just turns into a generic dysfunctional third world country.
And of course, we can look at examples in South America where we saw this happen.
I mean, Argentina was once a developed first world country.
Chile, of course, had its own special trajectory, but we just saw in the most recent election That we basically had a millennial communist essentially take over defeating kind of an old-fashioned conservative.
I don't know if you want to speak more on that, but it doesn't speak well for preserving like a first world government with a third world population.
Yeah, it sure doesn't.
No, I mean the election in Chile was really something.
The fact that somebody that radically left-wing won by such a large margin It's just, I mean, the last time that happened was literally Salvador Allende in 1970.
I mean, it's just, it's just crazy that they've, it's just crazy that they have done it again.
And I talk about history repeating itself.
I mean, Jesus.
Um, and, and yeah, so, and you know, there's no, there's no change in it.
I mean, people like talk about Venezuela right now.
And say, oh, well, you know, look at Venezuela.
That's not going too well.
And it's like, OK, but I mean, does anyone believe that there's going to be like a right wing takeover?
Does anyone believe that the pendulum is going to swing back and that Venezuela is going to be like lifted out of its current situation?
No.
Simone Bolivar himself at the end of his life said he had done nothing but plow the sea and that everything he had done was a complete waste of time.
And he's frankly right.
I mean, he probably should have stayed loyal to Spain.
They probably would have been better off.
But.
This is sort of the, the nightmare is that you don't get, I mean, yeah, maybe you'll win some over and maybe you'll get enough voting Republicans such that the political system can kind of limp on.
But if we turn into Chile, you know, El Norte, and it's just, you know, yeah.
And we just get a bunch of, you know, self hating whites and radicalized Hispanics who are 99.9% white, but like to pretend they're not.
And, you know, angry blacks, and they just kind of vote in this sort of social democratic government that's more or less in charge forever.
And every once in a while, you get sort of a reactionary response, but they don't actually do much to change anything.
I mean, that's not a future I want to be a part of.
I mean, at that point, you really got to start talking about, well, how do you get out of this by whatever means you can.
I mean, again, the thing that we should be afraid of is not the system falling apart.
It's the system holding together.
I mean, this is also why, you know, when a lot of the Republicans right now, they're pouncing on Biden.
Pounce is, of course, always how the liberal reporters frame the Republicans' response, as if they're doing something wrong.
But what they're going after him on is basically being weak in terms of foreign policy.
Like, we're going to be more willing to fight wars with Russia.
We're going to be more willing to fight wars with China.
And it's like, well, why?
In defense of what?
I mean, these are the basic questions we've got to start asking ourselves.
This podcast is getting so radical we might have to rename it The Vanguard or something, man.
Yeah, right.
I mean, the biggest thing, too, is that we can't just be entirely... The topic is important, and it's really the most important thing in terms of trying to understand where electoral politics are going to go over the next decade.
I'm not backing away from what I said.
I mean, I do really think that in some ways the answer of whether Western civilization will survive is whether these people consider themselves the heirs of the conquistadors or not.
That said, we do have to be wary of sort of falling into the same trap Conservatism Inc.
does where, oh, we found a black guy who recites the same talking points we do.
Let's put him in charge, put him on stage at CPAC.
You know, I don't think Hispanics who are suddenly opposed to BLM are going to save us.
I mean, it's going to be whites, people who are labeled white now under the government system, who can't classify themselves as Hispanics, who don't speak Spanish, who have ancestors who have been here for centuries.
Like, that's the group of people that's ultimately going to have to react if America is going to be reconquered culturally in any significant way.
Hispanics are not going to save us from ourselves.
That said, You know, we have to think of what Hispanic really represents.
I just don't think it's a distinct racial group, and I think it's a mistake for us to talk about it like it is sometimes.
And I also realize that's sort of different than a lot of what American Renaissance or Videa or other sites have done for a long time, because we always talk about Hispanics as if it's this monolithic group, and it's just not.
Yeah, I've actually hassled Jared Taylor about this, especially given that over the last decade, Hispanics coming into the United States have gotten continuously less white.
Because, you know, in like the 70s, Hispanic immigrants were largely northern Mexicans, were basically the whitest Mexicans, and then Mexicans at large were less white on average than the ones in the north.
And now it's this, what do they call it, the triangle, the golden triangle or something?
It's Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras.
And again, those people are basically Amerindians.
I mean, Mexicans look white by comparison.
Mexicans are much taller, they're much fairer skinned.
The men have a lot more facial hair, etc.
And that, in and of itself, is going to have a real impact.
I mean, there's going to be a huge difference between living in a neighborhood of No.
you know, third-generation Mexicans versus first-generation Guatemalans. I mean, a lot
No.
of the immigrants from the Central American nations don't even speak Spanish, much less
English. They speak these indigenous tongues that Mexicans themselves don't actually know.
Right.
You know, so in terms of, you know, will these people see themselves as the heirs of conquistadors,
Well, it could be the case for some of these Chicanos, right?
Maybe they could be sort of wrapped up into an American identity, the way some conservative Cubans, you know, like Marco Rubio, are for all intents and purposes white.
And even biologically speaking, are super majority white.
Like, well, that's never going to happen with these indigenous migrants from all of these nations to the south of Mexico.
And you look at the fertility rates, Those are going to be the ones coming here for the next couple decades.
Mexican fertility rates are actually leveling off.
Ditto Cuba.
And actually, as it turns out, if you consider Puerto Rico its own country, Puerto Rico has one of the lowest fertility rates on earth.
I don't have any idea as to why that is, but it's the case.
Uh, but it's the Central American nations that are still, you know, that still have rates of, you know, three or four as opposed to, you know, 2.1, 2.3, that kind of thing.
Right.
Well, that was what happened with Cuba.
I mean, the first wave was actually mostly Protestant, believe it or not.
Uh, racially white, uh, they called them the golden exiles, the first ones who fled after the revolution in Cuba.
And then the types of migrants who have been coming since have just sort of been trending down in terms of socioeconomic performance.
And of course, Castro memorably just opened up the jails.
And dumped everybody in Florida, the mayor of Bowlifte and whatever else.
Despite Fidel Castro's, you know, communism, he was a demographic realist.
He realized he could solve his nation's problems and launch basically a biological strike on an enemy nation by emptying out prisons and mental wards and just letting that flotsam float to Florida.
It's a very race realist policy.
Yeah, so the communists generally, once they're in power, they're very clear-sighted about these sorts of things.
Yeah, it's only liberal Democrats who actually, like, believe the nonsense they're saying.
Not when it comes to where they live or send their kids to school, of course, but when it comes to how they govern the state.
But I think that, I mean, you're right, that we're seeing the same sort of thing happen on a large scale where... I mean, the biggest problem, of course, too, is that It's precisely the most educated and the whitest Hispanics who are the most likely to go to university and there will be taught, you know, insane left-wing stuff and then be sort of sent back.
As the tribal leaders of their community to indoctrinate them with all this cultural Marxist stuff.
The ones who then lead all of these Hispanic advocacy groups.
Right.
And all, you know, this army of non-profits that fight white interests and immigration policies and all of these things.
And again, that problem isn't going anywhere, even if an increasing number of middle-class Hispanics start voting GOP.
Well, that's why, I mean, you have to kind of take this opportunity now.
And again, I'm not, I'm not saying this should be our ultimate goal, but in terms of what we should be concerned with right now, in terms of something practical that has to happen right now, and in terms of if there are any conservatives out there who actually care about the United States lasting for more than a decade, I don't think they do.
I mean, to them, it's just, you know, the home base for starting pointless wars.
But if any of them did, I mean, you really have to go with a frontal attack against affirmative action now, because you have to get rid of all these incentives that lead, essentially, the people who should be assimilating into mainstream American culture and demographics and everything else, who keep them on the outside, who keep them essentially acting as enemies to the country, and who get them to buy into all these narratives about how the country was terrible from the beginning.
There's no way you can get rid of that without getting rid of affirmative action in general, without essentially, you know, piercing the boil that is the American higher education system and letting the filth flow out and get rid of it.
But if we're not going to do that, and we just kind of trust that Hispanics are going to trend rightward over time.
I mean, I don't see it simply because, I mean, we haven't even seen that with Asian Americans.
I mean, you talked about how some of them are leading the fight against affirmative action, but even that is just sort of a subgroup of Chinese Americans.
If you look at how they vote, they're far more likely to vote Democrat than they are Republican, even though socioeconomically they earn more than white Americans.
Well, it wasn't always like that, though.
I mean, that's something that's unique to Asians, is they were voting majority Republican into the 90s.
With Hispanics, it's been much more consistent of, like, two-thirds or more for the Democrats, one-third, or one-third tops for Republicans.
Given that in the past Asians voted GOP, it seems much more likely that we could return to that.
With Hispanics, it's a tougher sell.
Especially since, as you say, there are obvious economic reasons for Asians to vote GOP, which just aren't entirely true for Hispanics, aside from the current COVID situation.
Yeah.
I just fear that the way The Republican Party is going to approach this issue is the same way they approach all these others where they just learn precisely the wrong lessons where they say, oh, we're winning over these people.
So what we need to do is open the borders and we need to get even more, you know, Hispanic tokenism at CPAC or whatever else we need to talk about George Floyd even more and.
Basically revert back to the sort of George W Bush policies that they thought were gonna bring in all these Hispanic voters for the Republicans And which didn't lead to anything good.
I mean, I think that look if The country is going to be held together there.
There is a kind of civic nationalism that you could conceivably promote and it wouldn't be perfect but it would create a country that would still be worth preserving and worth living in but Trump couldn't do that, or wouldn't do it, with the United Republican government.
And I don't see any Republicans talking about this right now.
At least none who have a share of power.
And look, everyone's like, oh 2022, the midterms and everything else.
And it's like, and so what?
What are they going to do if they get the House and the Senate, you know?
Okay, hold on a moment.
So, Your point about, you know, the ability of potentially sort of saving the country through this kind of MAGA-style nationalism or national conservatism that sort of gets a lot of Hispanics to, you know, identify as white or white-ish or American or what have you, and that can be sort of the whole thing that keeps it all together.
I actually think it's much more likely for kind of the left-wing equivalent of that to happen, because In 2020, Bernie Sanders was super popular among Hispanics.
He was regularly getting at least 50% of the Hispanic vote in each of his states.
It was the black vote that really tanked him in the end.
And what everybody who was involved in that campaign said, and what all of the analysts said, was that all of these Hispanics—and again, like, okay, Bernie Sanders getting 50% of the vote of a group doesn't sound that high, but it was a crowded field in the beginning.
The fact that one guy was getting half was really impressive.
And that's why he had these blowout victories in Nevada and California.
So what everybody said about that was the Hispanics were really attracted to economic issues, and the economic issues that Bernie was talking about.
Stuff like health care, minimum wage, union jobs, etc.
etc.
Because, again, Bernie was not the woke candidate, by any means, during the 2020 fight for the nomination.
Who was the wokest is certainly subject to debate, but it wasn't Bernie, even when he did flirt with the squad, which he did to his own detriment.
But I think I think the Hispanic attraction to Bernie over economic issues is actually similar to the Hispanic attraction to certain GOP candidates in our era of COVID over similar economic questions of, it's about the money.
They're not that wedded to an identity, you know, one way or the other, they're more motivated by their pocketbook.
Right?
I mean, what else could explain so much support for Bernie and then suddenly shifting support for the GOP when a Democrat is reigning and the economy is doing poorly, right?
On some level, it's got to be about the money.
So given that that's the case, and again, assuming that all these stupid COVID things, all these restrictions and shutdowns eventually end, and the Democrats become less woke, well, if those two things end, The most natural thing for the Democrats to revert to is to be, you know, its historical role as the party of the middle class, right?
The party of the working man, the party of, you know, the non-rich, right?
It's what everybody thought of the Democrats as being for decades, you know, way before there was Black Lives Matter and, you know, gay marriage and all of this stuff.
Like, if the Democrats revert to that, I think Hispanics are just going to come running back To the Democrat Party, if they don't have to deal with so much, you know, BLM garbage.
And I think then if the Democrat Party wins the national election, kind of on that platform, like maybe a more moderate Bernie Sanders, or somebody like Andrew Yang, who's promising, you know, universal basic income without any woke garbage.
Because again, Andrew Yang, for all his faults, which are numerous, is not a very woke guy, right?
He even made politically incorrect jokes from time to time.
He didn't get very far, though.
He didn't.
Not this time.
But he was a nobody in 2020.
Nobody knew who he was.
No normal people had ever heard of the UBI, etc., etc.
And Andrew Yang was not made for media appearances.
Bernie Sanders had this problem, too.
He's just sort of this grumpy old man.
Yeah, someone like Ocasio-Cortez could probably do a lot better than Bernie did.
But that's not going to be true of all or any of the people who pick up the mantles of these politics, right?
Yeah, someone like ocasio-cortez could probably do a lot better than uh, bernie did
I mean she's in some ways an example of what i'm talking about in the sense that
You know like all these super leftist, uh, non-white women.
You've got the token white boyfriend You've got the go to college and learn all this identity
politics stuff You've got the stuff that she was complaining about, like restrictions on small business.
You know, when she was, the Republicans in a particularly stupid move, you know, they're attacking her as just a bartender, as if like, it's a bad thing that people had jobs.
It's so stupid.
But like the funny thing is like her tweets from those times are like complaining about minimum wage of taxes and stuff like that.
I mean, I'm not talking about a future AOC.
I'm talking more about like a future Hispanic Sherrod Brown.
Or almost a Hispanic Blue Dog.
I mean, because AOC is super woke.
I mean, AOC could never get anywhere in a national election.
I mean, it just couldn't.
It just couldn't happen.
I think she would even have a hard time maybe even winning a statewide.
Well, in New York, she probably could.
But at any rate, what I'm envisioning is more along the lines of Somebody who's, you know, has genetic or biological roots to Mexico or Central America but was born in the United States.
And cut their teeth on union organizing or pushing for, you know, the fight for $15, $15 an hour as minimum wage, something like that, something like that, going, you know, reaching the governorship or getting a Senate seat at a, you know, a relatively important state and then running for the presidency.
I think somebody like that, whether they have politics more like Bernie Sanders or politics more like Andrew Yang, but again, something really economics focused, That doesn't delve very much into woke politics and just relies on the generic loyalty of blacks to vote for them anyway.
Somebody like that could win back a huge swath of the white working class that went for Trump in 2016, but moved back towards Biden in 2020, and could gain huge support among Hispanics, just like on these economic issues.
Because again, I think that's what's really driving a lot of Hispanics away from the Democrats now, and which also simultaneously, well not simultaneously, but the same factors drove them towards Bernie in 2020.
I think somebody like that could be enormously popular on a national stage.
It's a delicate balance, right?
You have to be kind of an economic populist without being too much of a socialist, and you have to kind of play that Democrat identity politics game, which is a total tightrope.
I mean, you have to maneuver it very, very deftly to be, you know, woke enough But not too woke, you know, woke enough to galvanize the more radical sectors of your party, but not so woke that you lose the upper Midwest.
I think somebody like that could win.
And it wouldn't be so much an appeal to kind of like a shared American identity, but an appeal to like, listen, how about everybody just gets a little bit richer, everybody's just going to get, you know, better health care, make a little bit more money, our schools are going to get like a little bit better, yada yada yada.
For me that and I'm not saying that would be better than some kind of MAGA nationalism I think MAGA nationalism would be better, but I just think that's what's in the cards long term Yeah, it's kind of my nightmare frankly.
I mean also the fact I'm sorry and for the listeners who?
Dislike my uh, you know leftist sympathies.
This is not my dream by it by any means.
This is me Theorizing into the rel I mean not immediate future by any means, but not 60 years.
A decade from now, yeah.
Yeah, maybe two or three decades from now. I think somebody like that could really pull it,
because I don't think it's that hard. And again, I think Bernie Sanders kind of was doing this in
2020 of being like, we're going to make all of you working and middle class Hispanics way better
off, plus working in middle class whites, and we're going to pay lip service to all of this
black stuff, but we're not going to talk all the time about reparations. We're not going to talk
all the time about white privilege, and trying to keeping all of that stuff at an arm's length.
You don't have to indulge it that much.
Blacks are going to vote Democrat no matter what.
You know what I mean?
Well, I mean, the biggest problem is that the Republicans, there is this kind of opening for someone, as you say, who's economically populist without necessarily being socialist.
But as we've seen, the Republican Party really is willing to go to the mat on tremendously unpopular economic issues.
I mean, you can show in poll after poll after poll that Making English, say, the American national language, is overwhelmingly popular, even among Democrats.
You could have universal Republican rule.
You could have every single seat in the House, every senator's seat, every gubernatorial seat, legislature, whatever.
The Republican Party will not do it.
You could show them a poll that says 99.9% of people want them to do it.
They still won't do it.
But, you know, they will they will burn the party to the ground to make sure that somebody doesn't have to pay a quarter more an hour at like a fast food restaurant or something like that.
And so.
The reason why I'm saying this is kind of my nightmare is because it's so obvious how you could kind of head this off with immigration control now and some economically populist measures now.
But the GOP is just not going to do it.
And, you know, look at the response to Trump just from Embodying some of these themes even though he didn't really deliver on that many of them, but the unbelievable reaction and Yet people in the conservative movement.
Not only have they not learned anything from it.
They've learned Like the opposite of what they should learn Like they've learned that we need to do a better job of making sure we tamp down on this even more and we're just gonna get more There's this regression to fringeness within the GOP.
of the implicit identity politics while being even more cowardly and eager for retreat when
it comes to identity politics that actually matters. Well and again, you know, the GOP just
seems... I mean it's part of the regime. There's this like regression, there's this regression to
fringeness within the GOP. I mean you and I were talking about this earlier this week of I can't,
like, I hate that ever this whole last calendar year the GOP has basically just talked about
what happened on January 6th, you know, Fauci stuff, mask stuff, vaccine stuff.
And all of this is so divisive, like the idea that you're going to win over voters by defending to the hilt what happened on January 6th, and talking about how maybe there were Antifa infiltrators, maybe there were FBI infiltrators, they should be treated better in prison and stuff, it's like this is still...
Most Americans view this as such a fringe issue.
Again, most white people view this as a really fringe issue.
I mean, let me let me push back against it.
I mean, Mitch McConnell and certainly the GOP leaders didn't do anything to step in to stand in the way of the Democrats, the January 6th investigations and everything else.
I actually think that the Republicans doing nothing and not really talking about anything right now.
I mean, if the polls are anything to go by, like it is working to their advantage.
I mean, they enjoy a huge Advantage in the generic congressional poll, and they're probably going to take back Congress if they just shut up and don't say anything.
But the economy, dude, you're that's like, yeah, it's really an economic front.
There's nobody voting GOP in 2022 because they learned what Marjorie Taylor Greene had to say about the prison conditions of the January 6th people.
Or, you know, all of these theories you see about about all of these vaccines and stuff is like, These kinds of issues are really great ways of alienating normies.
And again, I'm not trying to necessarily cast judgment on Whether Marjorie Taylor Greene is right or wrong about these things, but it's like the GOP of the culture wars of the early aughts of, like, really focusing on these really, really, really divisive issues, like abortion or gay marriage, when there are really popular issues you could focus on instead.
You know, the GOP could be hitting Biden on immigration and law and order right now way more than they are, and instead they want to kind of defend their own, like, class of lawbreakers of the January 6th people.
But again, I mean, we've got to step out of our bubble here.
I mean, for most Americans, that was not, like, a cool thing that happened.
Like, that was really weird and messed up.
You know what I mean?
I honestly think most Americans have forgotten about it.
I mean, the media certainly has forgotten about it.
I, of course, am, I guess, probably far more sympathetic, you know, what I wrote about, like, wrote about Ashley Babbitt and everything else.
I think what's being done to these prisoners is a disgrace But I think as far as the larger issue of what happened that day and everything else The media is clearly and the Democrats generally because they follow the media's lead like I think that's what like the Democrats intend to run on and Within the conservative movement.
There are some people talking about these issues and everything else, but I think most people are It's not that they're offended or not offended, I just don't think they care.
I think they're more concerned with inflation and gas prices right now than they are anything else.
Which is why I think that, like, CNN endlessly banging the drum about January 6th is just, you know, hiring the Capitol Police guy as, like, a commentator and whatever else.
Like, I just think most Americans are tuning out.
I mean, without Trump, nobody watches this stuff.
This still kind of proves my point, though.
Like, what I'm worried about is, say, A 20, what would it be, 2028 presidential matchup between Donald Trump Jr.
and, you know, whatever Democrat of like, it almost seems guaranteed at this point.
And listen, predictions are hard, but like, it's so easy to envision Donald Trump Jr.
in 2028 campaigning for president on the issues of stuff like Like January 6th, people being mistreated, and the 2020 election being stolen, and something about the vaccines.
And if a Donald Trump Jr.
were to do that in 2028, while the Democrats organized around somebody like Sherrod Brown of Ohio and was just talking about economic issues, you know, that plus the demographic change of America, Democrats could just win in a complete blowout.
Which is so frustrating because the GOP could beat them to the punch on this and, you know, do a genuine national conservatism platform a la 2016, except, you know, actually deliver on it.
Yeah.
Well, one of the big things, too, is if you look at the way the Republicans are positioning themselves now, they're assuming that they're going to win in 2022, and they're probably right to assume that at this point, but There's just nothing going forward for 2024.
I mean, I think they have all just sort of resolved.
If we just don't mention Trump, certain things will kind of open up.
People talk about DeSantis or people like that stepping forward, but there's no real vision.
It's just sort of, we're going to be a little bit harder and kind of tinker around the edges on immigration policy.
Maybe we'll say something about mandates, maybe we won't, but it's still just a reaction to the left's extremism.
And, you know, it's generally people on the margins who actually understand what's happening in politics, where everybody in the middle is just getting tugged one way or the other.
I mean, the fact is, if you look at the cultural and political changes the left has been able to push through over the last two years, And then it might lead to backlash and Republicans winning some elections, but they're not going to turn any of this stuff back.
They're not going to put Lee's statue back up, for example.
Right.
And so... A Hispanic GOP also won't be doing that.
If by some miracle, Hispanics start voting over 50% for the GOP, I mean, this is kind of what we were getting at earlier.
It's like, well, they're not going to put back any of these statues.
I mean, they might invade Iran, but, but, you know, Hispanic confused Republican party
might, might invade Iran, you know, but this is also why we have to talking about realistic
politics.
There has to be kind of a double game here because on the one hand, we've got to talk
about issues that matter to ordinary people.
And I think the economic issues, affirmative action, the way quote unquote woke politics
really matters in the way you live your life.
I mean we're getting to the point now where they're talking about things like ending single-family zoning in your community or something like that.
Like that's gonna have a really big impact on the way ordinary people live their lives.
I mean this is not just theory, this is this is what's like practical.
But at the same time, we also need to be willing to sort of step outside the political horse race aspect because, again, let's face it, I think you're going to see a backlash in 2022.
I think the GOP is going to make gains in Congress and will probably take the House, maybe or may not take the Senate.
We'll have to see.
But again, so what?
And the thing is, Every Republican takeover where they don't actually turn this stuff back, it essentially legitimizes the prior social change.
Yes.
And Marjorie Taylor Greene, um, probably, well, not probably, definitely one of the better representatives, but you know, again, notice that one of her attacks on Democrats a while back was she was criticizing them for being like too pro Immigration while not backing reparations for blacks at home.
And so it's like, okay.
So now we're like backing reparations to own the lips.
Like that's the far right position now.
And then, you know, it's sort of the same thing with the platinum plan with president Trump.
I mean, at a certain point.
And this is what I was saying with the speech and everything else.
And I, I don't want it to come from a place of victimhood because I'm not saying that, but you do need this kind of righteous moral indignation.
Ordering on fury.
We're basically it's no like whites are the ones who were being trashed by the system and No, you don't you don't get our vote if you even talk about something like reparations And I don't care if the Democrats govern the country for 90 years.
You have to give us Something and right now the Republicans aren't giving people Anything other than well, we're just not the Democrats.
And so I think if this woke stuff gets a backlash Yeah, it'll get a backlash in the short term, but it's actually going to legitimize it and make it permanent, because the only way you can actually defeat this stuff is by getting rid of the funding.
And that requires a frontal assault, essentially, on higher education and affirmative action.
I mean, the way I would pop the higher education balloon, because I think it is a balloon, like real estate or something like that, is I would go after the endowments and use that to pay off student loan debt.
I mean, you basically go to these far-left students and say, Look, you may hate our guts, but we're going to pay off this debt, but we're going to do it also by delegitimizing this entire system.
But I mean, we haven't.
That's right.
It's not thinking creatively.
I mean, great idea, man.
That's what I do.
But I really think that we have to start talking about specific demands and specific things we can do that'll back up our people right now.
I think there's going to be a lot of overlap with a lot of Hispanics, with a lot of white Hispanics who do not want this country to turn into the third world.
Um, certainly I know plenty who, you know, again, I worked in conservatives and make for how many years and then this afterward too.
It's not like a myth.
I mean, you do actually have lots of people who come from Venezuela and Cuba and Chile and everything else and say, no, you fools like this is like, I've seen how this movie ends and we don't want to go this way.
So we'll need a lot more Chileans like that in the coming four years.
More like a lot more Chileans like that.
But I think that we do need to talk a lot more about these are the specific things that we need to be working towards.
These are the specific policy goals that we need to insist upon now.
But at the same time, we can't just have our biggest aspiration be America with a strong Republican Party stumbles along for the next 50 years.
It's got to be more along the lines of we get what we want or we get a country of our own, full stop.
And if you don't get rid of a front of action, if you don't do these basic things, which mean that our own government stops discriminating against us, then, you know, even something about like American identity or something we can't even begin that conversation like that's that's completely irrelevant You might as well talk about like the Holy Roman Empire or something you're referring to things that just don't exist and haven't existed for a long time So I mean I do I do want to get people out there thinking, you know, you got to kind of think on two tracks like one What's practical?
What's something realistic and these are all issues where the people are on our side?
you know, you could you could have one politician with guts like change everything but We also need to have Trump in 2016, man.
I, I don't know.
He could have done it.
I mean, that's the thing.
It's just, I don't think that it's one of these things people, Oh, you know, the deep state and this and that.
And the other thing, I think it was just a, it was just a failure of staffing and a failure to really know what he was getting into.
I think it was Eric Trump a couple of days ago.
Said something along the lines of we were too stupid to do collusion with the Russians and he was he was making a joke
He was blowing off this collusion narrative because
You know He was saying that they didn't even really understand like
how it would work like with getting delegates and stuff like that
They didn't understand the process they were in now of course the media reported this to say like oh Trump says
he's stupid and also like he says they would have worked with the
Russians which that's not what they were saying, but The larger thing what he actually was saying that they had
no idea what they were getting in for and that they had no agenda that they were pushing and that essentially the only
guy who really Represented the grassroots in the early Trump
administration was Bannon and he got forced out fairly quickly
Bannon himself said the original stand of the Trump administration was coming to terms with the GOP establishment within the first 48 hours, and it cost I mean, that was probably the last chance to, like, save the country in the sense of saving a historic American nation that has some resemblance to what the Founders created.
I mean, at this point, there might be something calling itself America in the next 50 years, but it's going to be something radically new.
I'm not giving up on that as necessarily inherently a bad thing, but I'm also not ceding the goal of getting a chunk of something as our own.
I'm not saying that we should dismiss that.
I'm saying that we just need to have certain demands that are just beyond negotiation, and if we don't get it, then we're entitled to whatever we can get.
And that has to be led from people who are of the historic American nation, who descend from mostly the English-speaking settlers, and it's not going to come from Hispanics necessarily saving us from ourselves.
That said, you know, Hispanic is not a racial category.
It's just not.
And we have to be willing to look a little bit deeper when it comes to this stuff.
Well, so to sum up, are Hispanics going to join the GOP?
Probably not, but even if they do...
It just doesn't matter that much.
Right.
It's really missing the forest for the trees.
Yeah.
There's, there's a lot of signs for, for hope within even mainstream politics, but I think that's a topic for another day, probably the day after the elections.
So then I can talk about, uh, which guys I like the most.
Uh, and they won't, my voice won't be used in like ads against them or something like that.
So I'll wait till after they get elected and then we can talk about how great they are.
It sounds like a date, man.
All right.
All right.
I think that's a good note to close it on, guys.
Thanks for listening.
Have a Merry Christmas, or a Happy Yule for those of you who follow the old ways.
We'll get back into cracking some of the key texts when we get back, but also we want to keep our finger on the pulse of what's going on with electoral politics.
So enjoy it, and we'll catch you next time.
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