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May 12, 2021 - Radio Renaissance - Jared Taylor
22:14
Extended Interview: Jorge Ramos Talks Race with Jared Taylor
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I might be overstating that, but I think we are on completely opposite sides.
On the contrary, I think in a way we are mirror images in that you are fighting for your people, I'm fighting for mine.
And I've been reading a lot of the things that you've said, and I really can't agree on most of them, but what I really appreciate is that there's a willingness from your part and mine.
To have a conversation.
And I think that's incredibly important.
In other countries, that would have been impossible.
But I think we can do it here in the United States in a very civilized way, and nothing happens.
I'm not sure the United States is the only place where this is possible.
In any European country, it would probably be possible.
Maybe not in Mexico.
And maybe in many countries in Latin America, it would be very difficult that opposites could sit down and just have a conversation.
Let me start just with the basics.
I want to understand what's your ideal?
What's your dream for this country?
What would you like to see?
I think every nation is happiest when its people are homogeneous.
In the United States we're told over and over again that diversity is a strength.
Diversity is not a strength.
I think so.
I think it's a strength.
Then why is Mexico not inviting...
Haitians and Guatemalans and Vietnamese into Mexico to make it more diverse.
No. Mexico wishes to remain Mexican.
And God bless Mexico for that.
I would wish that America remained American.
America of the 1950s or 60s or the 1860s for that.
Well, America now means diversity.
America means Asians.
America means African Americans, Latinos, and non-Hispanic whites.
That is very recent.
Very recent.
As you know, until 1965, we had an immigration policy that was designed specifically to keep the United States majority white.
And that was a perfect immigration policy in my view.
In fact, your country, Mexico, in part of your basic immigration...
I'm also American, by the way.
I know you have a dual nationality, but I somehow suspect that you think of yourself as more Mexican than American.
No, I think of myself as Mexican-American.
Mexican-American.
Yes. You were telling me about your vision of America.
Yes, I think that homogeneous countries are happier countries.
All around the world, wherever you look, if you see conflict, people diligently slitting each other's throats, whether it's in the Middle East, whether it's in Africa, it's because of diversity.
People who are different from each other trying to share the same territories.
And look here in the United States.
We have had the civil rights movement of 50 years ago, and blacks are still rioting.
When Mexicans and other immigrants come to this country, they create enclaves.
They don't get along with blacks either.
There's always this tension of, do we have enough representation?
You don't agree?
All of the major conflicts in the United States are really based on diversity.
Diversity of ethnicity, of language, of religion, but primarily of race.
So, what would you like to see?
Would you like to see a white country?
I think most whites very clearly prefer to live in a majority white neighborhood.
And I know that's the case because I see what they do when the neighborhood becomes majority non-white.
They move away.
They would never admit that they prefer a white society because they've been browbeaten into thinking that it's wrong to say that.
But that's the way they feel in their bones, and I know that because I see what they do.
So what would you want to do?
So you want to live in a white-only country?
Not necessarily white only, but a country that is clearly based on a European model.
In which whites will basically remain the overpiling majority in perpetuity.
Okay. How do you achieve that?
Well, that's an excellent question.
We were about to do that.
Up until 1965, we did have a country of that kind.
I can tell you how to lose that country.
You lose that country, of course, by abolishing the kind of immigration policy that was maintaining a white United States and letting in people from all over the world.
You lose that when you browbeat and hypnotize at Americans thinking that Diversity is a wonderful thing.
You lose that when you have them chanting, white Americans chanting, that it'll be great to be a minority.
But that changed in 1965.
I do agree that that Immigration Act was one of the most important.
Maybe the most important law in the history of the United States.
I think we can agree on that.
And that has changed the country.
I want to change it back.
How? Donald Trump has got some first good steps in mind.
He wants to make sure no more illegal immigrants come into the country, and he wants to make sure that all illegal immigrants here go back.
He wants to end birthright citizenship.
He wants to put at least a temporary ban on Muslim immigration.
Those are all excellent first steps.
In any case, as I say, the economic arguments to me are far less important than what happens to the United States as a cultural entity.
I am loyal to my people.
My people are of a European origin.
And I want my descendants and their descendants to be able to enjoy a European culture in a nation that has that culture as its central one.
That's what Mexicans want.
What happens with Asians?
What happens with African Americans?
What happens with Latinos?
What happens with Native Americans?
What happens to my people?
You presented me with a very limited view of the United States.
That is the view that the Japanese have for Japan.
Mexicans have for Mexico.
Indians have for India.
No other country, except for white countries, would ever countenance an immigration policy that would reduce them to a minority.
I'm sure.
That if hundreds of thousands of white people were pouring across the border into Mexico, and they were buying up broadcasting stations, broadcasting in English, insisting on ballot papers in English, and wanting to be school instructed in English, and some of them might be talking about breaking off a chunk of Mexico and making an all-white enclave.
Would the Mexicans accept such a transformation of their society?
We're talking about what's happening right now here in the United States.
Because that's the reality here in the United States.
I have some numbers.
No, no, you won't answer my question, will you?
Because you know that Mexicans would say absolutely no way.
Will we be reduced to minority in our own country?
That debate is nonexistent whatsoever right now in Mexico.
Nobody is discussing that.
Nobody is discussing that in Latin America.
But we are discussing it here in the United States because we are a country of immigrants.
And that's completely different than the history of Mexico in Latin America.
So you cannot put it in the same way to a completely different country.
What you're setting up is a double standard.
You're in effect saying America is up for grabs.
What I'm saying is, America is a country of immigrants.
That's what I'm saying.
You're saying the United States is a place, anybody can come and turn it into anything you want, and the people who built this country and established its institutions, if they glimmer away, so what?
Isn't this an exceptional country simply because of that?
Simply because immigrants came here.
Where's your family from, Mr. Taylor?
They're from England.
They showed up here in the 17th century.
I'm a Native American.
My ancestors were pioneers.
They were not immigrants.
They built this country.
But hold on.
There were Spaniards in this territory.
Nando de Soto came in 1540.
That was down in the southwestern part.
Exactly. But I want to get back to this view you have of America as uniquely up for grabs.
That's your vision of America.
Whereas Mexico is not up for grabs.
Nor is Brazil.
Nor is Japan.
They have completely different stories.
Because we're talking about a nation of immigrants, which is unique and exceptional in almost the rest of the world.
So you cannot put in the same place to completely different stories.
No. Human nature does not change.
Human nature is tribal.
You are saying that the United States and only the United States does not...
Not only the United States.
There are other countries with a lot of immigrants.
Australia, you see what's happening.
Exactly. All these white countries.
You say they must become multicultural.
They may not preserve their ethnic heritage.
You're saying that they have to open themselves to the entire world.
It's not that they must.
That's the reality.
And I'm saying that 1965 was a mistake.
For the vast majority...
I'm saying it was a great success.
One of the most important measures ever taken in this country.
Because people like you could come and outnumber me.
That's why you think it's a success, don't you?
Let me...
No, no, no.
Could you answer that question?
Because people like me will become minorities.
Precisely, I want to show you the numbers that I have on the...
You are promoting a process that will reduce my people to a minority.
You approve of increased Hispanic power.
You have said we are 17% of the population, but we have only three senators.
Who's we?
We as Hispanics.
Latinos, yeah.
Latinos. You want more power for Latinos.
That comes at the expense of my people's power.
Why do you want to take away my power?
You're talking about my people as if you were completely separated from me.
No, why do you want to take away my power?
Why do you want to reduce my people to my heart?
I'm not reducing your power.
What's happening is that...
Of course you are!
Of course not!
What's happening is that, because you're thinking of Americans as completely separated, as if white Americans were separated from Latinos, and from African Americans, and Asians, and you're wrong on that, Mr. Taylor.
We are...
The Declaration of Independence is just beautiful.
1776, all men are created equal.
Aren't we equal, Mr. Taylor?
We are equal in all sorts of ways.
We're equal before the law.
But we are also unequal in a thousand different ways.
But you keep running away...
But we're both Americans, aren't we?
You keep running away from my question.
No, go ahead.
Yes. You say that we are all the same.
Yes. You talk about we are 17% and we have only three senators.
You're talking about Latinos.
When I'm talking about Latinos, yes.
Blacks speak in exactly the same terms.
They think of themselves as black first and then Americans.
Many Latinos think of themselves as Hispanic, Latino first.
I'm just pointing out a reality about a minority in this country in which you are 17% of the population and we only have three senators.
So therefore, we don't have the political representation that we deserve.
And you want more and more and more?
Of course, because we only have three senators.
How much political?
At this point, 14 senators.
I see.
You'd be satisfied with 14. And 50 years from now, how many would you like?
Let's talk about 50 years from now.
These are the numbers that I have.
And I think maybe we can agree on the Census Bureau.
In 2044, white, non-Hispanics will become a minority.
Is that what you're afraid of?
I think every white person in his own thinks this is a terrible thing.
They will never dare say so.
I think it's just fantastic about multiculturalism.
Mr. Ramos, Mr. Ramos, it's fantastic for you, for my people to lose power and become a minority.
That's fantastic for you.
How does it feel for me?
Because it is our country.
Our country.
It is our country.
And if the people who built this country and established its institutions, established its culture, become elbowed off the stage of history, you think that's wonderful?
No, I think we are sharing.
We are sharing.
The history.
We are sharing the power.
We are sharing the territory.
It is our country.
Do you think we both have the same rights in this country?
I think that you are, as I say, fighting for the rights for your people.
The people that you consider we, Latinos, Hispanics.
You want more power, more numbers, more influence for them.
The first we for me is Americans.
The first we.
All right.
I'll take your word for it.
But I think somehow that if the first we for you was America, you would not be constantly fighting for Latinos.
Because that's a minority.
That's a minority that's underrepresented politically and that they do deserve the political representation that their numbers are showing.
How about Haitians?
Do you fight for them?
Are they adequately represented?
I fight for all minorities.
I fight for all minorities equally.
Alright. It's only the majority that's your enemy.
It's really interesting.
I don't think non-Hispanic whites are my enemy.
Of course not.
We are all Americans, aren't we?
But you're clearly constantly taking sides.
You're fighting for all minorities.
That means you fight for everyone but white Americans.
No, no, no.
What I'm saying is that those minorities that are being discriminated, that don't have enough power...
That don't have enough political representation.
I think, yes, I think we should fight for them.
Okay, and as long as white people are a majority, you will continue to fight against us and take our power, take our numbers, take our influences.
It's not against you, Mr. Taylor, and it's not against white.
Objectively, it is against the majority.
The majority is white, and you want to systematically take away the white majority's power.
Do you think that because you are white, you are superior to...
African-Americans?
No, not at all.
Or that you are superior to Latinos?
No. Or Asians?
No. I think that all people have the right to pursue their own destiny.
The United States was established as a European country.
In 1790, the very first immigration law, naturalization law, allowed only free white people of good character to become Americans.
Because the Founding Fathers, despite this nonsense in the Declaration about anybody being anyone, It's not nonsense, it's the most beautiful phrase in the Declaration of Independence.
First of all, it's not true by any stretch of imagination, but in any case...
Excuse me, you don't think we are all created equal?
No, I think all people are profoundly un-equal.
You don't think we are equal?
You don't think that you are exactly the same as an African-American?
In an abstract political sense, perhaps, but there are people who are...
No, in real terms, Mr. Taylor.
No, no, there are people who are better athletes than I am.
You don't think you're the same as an African-American?
We are the same species of human being, but...
Genetically, don't you think we're the same?
We are the same species, but...
But wait, because you don't want to say that you are the same as an African American.
How come?
I'm the same species, but look, the point is, no human beings are identically equal.
But let's set that aside.
No, no, because that's the basic, that's the essence of this discussion.
No, it's not.
That you might think that you are better than African Americans or Latinos or Asians.
No, no, I'm not saying better at all.
I'm saying we build different societies.
And when the United States was established...
The idea was that only free white persons of good character could be admitted to this country as citizens.
That was the basic conception of the United States.
It outposted Europe.
And then it changed?
It changed many years later.
Men changed history.
And it was a major mistake.
Men changed laws.
But the point is...
That happens in all the world.
The United States, as a conception, continued until 1965.
And when that law was passed...
It was not offered to the American people as something that would change the demographics of the United States.
Let me ask you about Muslims.
You said, in a robocall, supporting Donald Trump, this year, you said,"We don't need Muslims.
We need smart, well-educated white people who will assimilate to our culture.
Vote Trump." Donald Trump is about this call.
And you say, we don't need Muslims.
No. Okay.
So, what are you going to do with the thousands of Muslims?
American citizens who are serving in the military and who are protecting you right now in the police departments across the country.
We don't need any more Muslims.
How many Syrian refugees?
You didn't say more Muslims.
You say, we don't need Muslims.
We don't need Muslims.
And they are part of this country.
Thousands of them, Mr. Taylor.
Serving us, protecting us in the military...
I'm sure that we just couldn't possibly survive with all those Muslim Navy Rangers.
Yes, I'm sure that's true.
But I'm talking about...
You're making fun of them, but that is not right.
No. You cannot make fun of people who are saving our lives and protecting us.
Muslims in large numbers.
We see what the consequence of that is in Europe.
Europe... In Europe, Muslims become this indigestible mass of aliens who are incapable of integrating in a meaningful way.
And I notice that there's not a single Latin American country that is proposed to let these Syrian Muslims, these so-called refugees into those countries.
Obviously, Mexico, Central America, South America...
Refugees, Mr. Taylor, not so-called refugees.
Refugees. Those people...
They're fighting for their lives.
They're being their countries because they're being killed.
How many Latin American countries have admitted a single one?
No, they don't want Muslims either, because they know what a problem Muslims are, in any sort of large numbers.
I wouldn't say that there are no racial tensions in this country.
Of course there are.
And we have many examples.
But I wouldn't be...
It's impossible, and it would be unfair to say, that African Americans are in a different category as you.
In a different category?
We're all the same, Mr. Taylor.
If we really were all the same, there would be no racial tensions, would there?
You say there is a great deal of racial tension.
Let me finish, let me finish.
The very existence of racial tension, racial tension between people who have tried to live together for hundreds of years, and it still persists.
This is proof that assimilation is not possible across racial lines and that diversity is a weakness for America, not for Australia.
I would say in a completely different way.
I would say that in a country in which we had slavery, in a country in which we had discrimination and racism...
So again, it's all our fault.
It's white people's fault.
The fact that right now we have an African-American president means progress, don't you think?
It's certainly an acceptance of an important symbol.
Among many other things.
Again, again, you are saying that the reason blacks have not assimilated is the fault of whites who have mistreated them.
If you look at blacks in nations with completely different histories of that of the United States, Canada, or Great Britain, for example, you will find that blacks are in exactly the same socioeconomic and crime profile situation as they are here.
This shows you that American history is not some kind of unique debilitator of blacks.
What we find among blacks in the United States, which we find in Britain and in Canada, is a reflection of racial differences that will persist no matter what kind of social programs you wish to implement.
I think that your primary loyalty, whether you say so or not, and perhaps I'm wrong, and I don't wish to impute motives to you that are unfair, but it seems to me that your actions, you want more power for Latinos, and I don't think it's simply because They have less power than they deserve numerically.
I think, in your view, America will be a better country if there are more Hispanics exercising more power and leaving their mark on this society and its culture.
That, to me, is against my interests.
I believe that it is within my interests and that of all European-derived Americans to live in a society that is stamped with the mark of European culture.
I think that white Americans had, at one point, A special and unique destiny that it was their duty and their privilege to pursue without being changed, without their society being hemmed in from all sides by people unlike themselves who reduced them to probably a despised minority,
perhaps 50 or 60 years from now.
So this process has been one of dispossession for my people, my culture, and my heritage.
And I don't see why that is anything...
That I should be criticized for.
It's the most natural, normal, healthy thing in the world for me to want my people and civilization to flourish and survive.
Unless the United States is prepared to say to Muslims,"No, we do not want you here." It's prepared to say to Guatemalans and Haitians and Bolivians.
No. We wish to have a nation for our own people and our own posterity.
Unless whites are prepared to exclude people, then they will be shoved aside.
That is the ultimate fate that my people are faced with because of the insistence of people from all around the world who wish to come in and say, we will reduce you to a minority, like it or not.
That is the fate that I look to and which I will fight until my last breath.
And you say it is illegitimate.
For any white person to prefer to live in a white majority neighborhood or a white majority...
I would say it's immoral and I would say it's illegal.
Wait, wait.
I'm not talking about...
You say it's immoral.
Is it immoral for a Latino to wish to live in a majority Latino country?
Is that immoral?
It is immoral if you exclude others, yes.
Really? Yeah.
Well, wait.
You cannot...
Why am I going to be excluding...
Any other person, simply because of their origin.
I cannot do that.
Every Latin American country excludes practically everyone.
Until not long ago, your nation had as part of its immigration law, it was written that immigrants will not disrupt the demographic balance.
That is exclusion.
That is precisely what it is.
It's a country with a completely different history than the United States.
Again, more double standards for America.
It's not double standards.
It is history.
You went to Yale, you know history.
You're saying only America is up for grabs, not Mexico, no, not Brazil.
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