The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #175 with Shakur Stevenson

March 6, 2026 - The Joe Rogan Experience

02:12:00

JRE MMA Show #175 with Shakur Stevenson

# vasiliy_lomachenko usada ufc 5_dihydrotestosterone aleister_overeem andre_ward ann_wolfe arthur_beterbiev athletic_training_and_strategy boxing buster_douglas canelo_alvarez career_and_business_in_combat_sports christy_martin claressa_shields dalton_smith floyd_mayweather hgh human_growth_hormone icarus_documentary john_jones kambosos mike_tyson mma ostarine peds performance_enhancing_drugs pillow_hands rehydration_clause roy_jones_jr ryan_garcia sabriel_matias shakur_stevenson shane_mosley sports tank_davis terrence_crawford terrence_femo

Shakur Stevenson dominates the conversation by dissecting his tactical victory over Terrence Femo, contrasting his disciplined approach with modern fighters who risk cognitive decline. He details his refusal to accept rehydration clauses unless fighting at 147 pounds, citing the dangers of weight cuts and referencing Roy Jones Jr.'s struggles. Stevenson praises Floyd Mayweather's longevity while debating performance-enhancing drugs in combat sports, highlighting cases like Arthur Beterbiev and the Icarus documentary. Ultimately, he asserts his status as boxing's best, prioritizing family over fame and aiming to secure financial freedom without returning to the ring for money. [Automatically generated summary]
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joe rogan

59:50

shakur stevenson

54:41

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Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
Standout Performance Against Tia Femo 00:14:27
unidentified		Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!
		The Joe Rogan experience.
		Train by day, Joe Rogan.
		Podcast by night, all day.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyway, thanks for coming down here, man.
		Appreciate it.
		And congratulations on that standout performance against Tia Femo because that was a giant wake-up call for the entirety of boxing.
		The level that you're on was it so high that you could be in there with a world champion, a world champion, and make him look a guy who beat legit guys, including Lomachenko.
		It was a big victory for him.
		And you made him look like he had no business in there.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Honestly, it's just hard work, dedication, and God-given ability.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		God-given ability.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think you have all that plus intelligence, plus you started real young.
		And there's something about those dudes who start real young.
		You grow up with that.
		It's like in your central nervous system as you're a young child.
		I mean, would you start boxing at like five?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I started boxing at five, but honestly, you could say the same for T.O. too, because he kind of started at like seven.
		We both was kind of similar in like experience, but I just felt like with me, the God-given ability of my instincts always kick in.
		Like when we fought, I felt like my brain just knew how to win.
		Like it just, everything was just like my instincts kicked in and everything just took over.
		Like I didn't even, it felt like an out-of-body experience.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're a very tactical guy.
		Like, you know, there's a thing, one of the things I love about watching you fight is I love watching a guy who sets traps and who avoids damage.
		And you are one of the absolute very best ever at setting traps and avoid damage.
		You take so few punches in your fights.
		There was that one fight where you decided, recent fight, where you decided to stand with that dude.
		Who was that?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		William Zapeta.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Zapeta's a tough guy, man.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But you fought that in a different way.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you do that on purpose?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It was partly on purpose and partly to get his respect.
		Because I really didn't have a choice but to get his respect.
		Because if I'd try to outbox him and move around the ring, I probably would have made the fight harder than it had to be.
		So I knew I got to make him respect me early.
		And that's what I kind of like started the fight.
unidentified		Hot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why would it make it harder than it had to be if you boxed him?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Because sometimes when you like a guy, like if you watch today's boxing, judges give the fight to mostly the guys that's coming forward.
		If I'd have gone in there and bagging up and moving around the ring while he was more active, it probably would have looked as though he's winning the fight.
		So I had to make sure the judges know who's winning.
		So I kind of had to take some in order to give some in that fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was a very unusual fight for you.
		I saw an interview with you after that fight.
		We're like, I'm not fighting like that again.
		Fuck that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because I know like I see like the modern day, like the old school boxers and like the punishment that they taking.
		And you'll see them today, they can't really talk as well as like the Andre Wars and the Floyd Mayweather who can talk good and still articulate things to their grand Terry's to their grandchildren, to their children.
		And for me personally, it's like I want to make sure that I'm able to really speak well to my kids and my grandkids and all of that.
		So taking punishment ain't for me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I support that 100% and I applaud fighters like you for setting an example for young fighters coming up.
		Like defense and tactics and understanding the game is the most important thing.
		These guys that want to put on an entertaining fight and just go in there and slug it out, like, man, you are giving up your brain for some people who don't give a fuck about you.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I got you.
		Oh, my God.
		That's the guy's on the truth right there.
		I be seeing a lot of fighters nowadays where they stand there like punching bags and let people hit on them.
		And you'll see them after the fight, they marked up.
		And in a few years, I don't think that they're going to be able to speak as well as somebody like me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, there's a bunch of examples of that.
		Obviously, we could all see it.
		But, you know, it's a complicated sport.
		And for people that don't understand the sport and don't appreciate the sport, they just see two dudes punching each other.
		But they don't see subtle movements.
		And you were doing this like half-out jab and then popping him with it.
		And you could tell he had no idea it was coming.
		It was so frustrating for Tia Fimo.
		It was watching.
		I was like, there was a bunch of times while I was watching.
		I just was yelling out by myself in my house going, woo!
		That check right hook.
unidentified		Ooh!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was so pretty, man.
		You hit him with some pretty shots, but it was, it was just, you were just tuning him up.
		It was a beautiful performance, man, because it was everything that I love in boxing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Skill, movement, understanding, ring IQ, knowing what's happening.
		And every time he would get fired up and try to take it to you, the most he could do is touch your body.
		Yeah, that's all he was able to do.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Honestly, for me personally, I feel like I'm like the best fighter in boxing.
		And I don't like mean this in no disrespectful way because I got a lot of fighters in boxing that I still watch to this day that I like.
		And I'm like, okay, they're going to steal this.
		Usik, I love Usik.
		I love Usik.
		I love Bavar.
		I love them Eastern European styles.
		But for me, I just feel like I'm a fighter that could do it all.
		I can do it all.
		Whatever needs to be done to get the job done, I can do that.
		So some nights you might see I might outbox people.
		Then some nights I might stand there and beat a guy up and beat them at their own game.
		So I think for me, I'm the most complete fighter in boxing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that mindset is what you need, especially in a sport where you've dominated divisions.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So if you've dominated divisions and you're still looking to achieve a higher level, you can't just look at the guys that are your competitors.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because at 135, it was so hard for you to get fights.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		At 140, now, what are you going to do?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You just do that to Tia Fimo.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It scared a lot of people.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No one wants to look stupid.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, TFEMO has had some good fights in the past and he's lost in the past, but he's never looked out of place.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he looked out of place now.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy, though, because when I seen him, when he fought in New York on the Times Square card, I'm like, man, this dude is nice.
		Like, I'm sitting there, I'm like, whoa, like, I couldn't believe how good he was.
		But it kind of like just made me get up.
		Like, I'm like, okay, I want to.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I want to see what he can do with me.
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Because the way he made Arnold Barbosa look in New York was like, he just made him look like he's not on his level.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he wasn't on his level, but then TFIMO's not on your level.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this is the beautiful thing about competitive sports, especially boxing, this one-on-one, which I think is the purest form of competition, boxing in MMA, is that you can show that as great as a fighter is, like, people could watch the Tia Fimo fight and have no idea how good he is.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I would say, go watch the Barboza fight, go watch the Lomachenko fight, go watch many of his fights.
		The guy was an excellent fighter.
		Still is an excellent fighter.
		But there are levels.
		And the mindset that you have, I am the best fighter in the world, period, is what allows you to beat guys like that.
		That and the hard work.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
		Like I said, I'm God-given and I work super hard.
		And I think the biggest thing that I don't get credit for is my discipline.
		Like, I feel like I'm very disciplined when it comes down to making the sacrifices and making the life changes that I need to make in order to be 100% on Fight Night.
		And I feel like a lot of people don't give me.
		I mean, they don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm saying.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'll be seeing fans tweet and they'll be like, oh, get off Twitter or get off social media.
		But I'll be on social media right after I just left the gym.
		I'm like, what's the problem?
		Like, I'm just talking my talk on social media right now.
		Like, let me live.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, people are always looking to criticize.
		But there's no way you can have the kind of performances that you're having and not be locked up and not be locked in.
		It's not possible, especially over 12 rounds.
		Because, I mean, you know better than anybody alive the kind of discipline that it takes to be in the kind of condition that you have to be in to fight 12 hard rounds and put on a virtuoso performance.
		So it's like, it's crazy, though.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Everybody, like, like, y'all love the performance because y'all got to see it that day.
		But, like, for me, when I'm in the gym, it's still levels that I feel like I haven't got to shown to the world.
		Like, I kind of only really shown like 70% of what I really could do.
		And I feel like with that performance, it was just like, okay, this is like an okay day in the gym.
		Like an okay day.
		It ain't like my best day in the gym.
		Like, I have like days in the gym where I'm like, ooh.
		I don't know how I just did that, but I'm just like on point.
		So it was a good day, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The thing is, you're getting better.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the thing.
		It's like those days that you have in the gym and this performance and the mindset that you have, like, it's still only not saying, I did it all.
		Not seeing, okay, virtuoso performance, still only 70% of what you're capable of.
		That's what takes a guy from being a very good fighter to being an all-time great.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And it's a matter of maintaining that over years and years and years that is so difficult for people.
		And discipline is where that comes in.
		Enthusiasm and motivation is great in the beginning.
		A lot of people have enthusiasm and motivation in the beginning, but it's when you've been a champ for five years, six years.
		You know, the grind of it all, the 12-week training camp away from your family.
		People don't think about that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's why I'm kind of glad that I got the all of the things that happened in my career where I had a little trials and tribulations happened early.
		So when I had my hand problem and I had like a fight where I didn't perform as well as I wanted to, it kind of got me prepared for like now.
		Now it's like I'm 100% on top of my game.
		Like you're not going to be able to like beat me without me being like fully prepared.
		Like you're going to have to be a bad dude to come in the ring and beat me.
		Like, because I just don't see it happening with none of these guys.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's like how far you've gone, right?
		Like you started off at five and been intensely focused for all these years.
		How old are you now?
		28.
		28. 28.
		Which is prime.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		Like 28 to like 34 is the best year.
		But then again, you look at Terrence.
		I mean, he's at an age where a lot of people say it's over, and he put on the performance of his career against Canelo.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how he does it.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He's like a different human being.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's so smart.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		If I'm honest, he is like the reason.
		I'm not going to say he's the reason why I am who I am today, but he brought my game from like where it was at to like a very high level.
		And he don't even realize like he done that.
		Like me just being in the gym, able to watch him and pick up on like the little things that he doing, his bad days, his good days.
		I'm seeing everything and like when he come out there on fight night, how prepared and how ready, how confident.
		Like, honestly, that dude kind of put me into a whole different world now to where I'm like, oh, I can beat anybody.
		I get in there with Terrence Crawford and if I could spar with him, I could, how you going to hurt me?
unidentified		How?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		How you going to beat me?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, I'm in the ring with the best fighter in the world.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		One of the best of all time.
		Yeah, one of the best of all.
		And one of the most versatile of all time.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because that's a guy who switches up left, right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		There's nothing he can't do in a boxing ring.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
		Nothing he can't do.
		And the way he sets people up.
		We were talking during the podcast I did with him.
		He did this one sneaky thing where he was throwing a straight left and then Canelo would go to counter and he would hook it right off of the punch.
		Like on the extension, Canelo would lean back to counter and bop and catch him on the chin.
unidentified		You could see it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like, oh my God, that's pretty.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I've never seen him throw that punch until Canelo, though.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's the crazy part.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Being in the gym with another guy who's an all-time great pound for pound best, that is so valuable.
		And so many guys don't like that because they don't want to be the second best or they don't want to be in there with someone who's as good as them.
		You know what I mean?
		Like iron sharpens iron.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And for you to be a young guy who have a guy's, Terrence is what, 10 years older than you?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Have a guy who's further down the path and be able to see him and absorb all that is better than any coach of the world.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it's been going on for years.
		Like it ain't like just a new thing.
		People don't understand.
		Like when I was 19 years old, I was around Terrence.
		I was at his house playing him in 2K.
		We'll go to the gym, argue.
		He really one of the most competitive persons I ever met in my entire life.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You have to be.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I just never, like, for me, I just know for a fact my game has up because of that dude.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It has to.
Terrence's Unquestionable Greatness 00:14:58
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's also, you're seeing this level that is so high in boxing.
		Like, you can compare it.
		You could go back and look at Sugar A. Leonard.
		You can look at Purnell Whitaker.
		You look at all these guys.
		And you can compare Terrence to the people that the pundits sit down and say all-time greats.
		Terrence is unquestionably an all-time greats.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He might even be better than them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He might be.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He might be.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		All due respect to the legends.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He is that good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's that good.
		I feel like there's a thing that was happening before the Canelo fight where a lot of people were sort of dismissing his previous opponents and saying he never beat anybody.
		And Canelo's another level.
		I know a lot of people bet a lot of money on Canelo.
		I was like, that's not a good bet.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Man, it seemed like that's the thing in boxing to where it's like, if they don't know the opponents, if you're not fighting somebody that's like a bigger name, they make it seem like the opponents is not good.
		That's like not true.
		Because at the end of the day, it's low-level opponents that don't get the type of shine that the high-level opponents get, but they will beat the high-level opponent.
		And are they really high-level opponents at this point?
		Like, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's hot, there's high-level, and then there's the elite of the elite, right?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's always that.
		There's like some guys that if they're in, like, I always said that about Roy Jones during his prime.
		Like, everybody said Roy Jones didn't find anybody.
		Not true.
		Roy Jones just made everybody look like they weren't anybody.
unidentified		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because he was that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was so elite.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's kind of the problem that Terrence was facing up until the Canelo fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because when a guy goes up two-way classes all the way up to 68.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He's crazy.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, starts his career at 35.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Last fight he fights at 68 and then puts on a virtuoso performance, virtual shutout.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Maybe Canelo won one round.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Then everybody has to shut the fuck up.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he shut everybody up because you had to see, like, he used to say that he wouldn't fight Canelo.
		Like, he used to be like, oh, Canelo's too big.
		I wouldn't fight him.
		Then, like, it's like out of nowhere, he had a change in mind.
		And like, he just went and attacked the situation.
		And it was a bad situation to be in.
		Like, you're going to go fight somebody two-way classes higher, punch hard, bigger than you, and you're going to go do that.
		So for me, he just dude is amazing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's amazing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And another amazing example for young fighters, you know, incredibly disciplined, never out of shape, and has all his faculties.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He doesn't drink.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't do anything, all his faculties intact, and he's leaving the game with 100%, no undefeated record, no questions asked, fought everybody.
		There's no one lining up to fight him right now.
		He's older, and he did it all, and he came out unscathed.
		Bye-bye.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's my biggest goal.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a perfect goal.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		My biggest goal is to leave boxing.
		And when I leave boxing, be good enough.
		Well, not good enough, great enough financially to where I don't ever have to get back in the boxing ring.
		Like, I don't want to be one of them fighters that's like need boxing.
		Like, I hate that.
		Like, that's my biggest pet peeve.
		Like, long as I'm having fun with boxing, I want to be doing it.
		But once it's not fun no more, I don't want to have to like, oh, we got this $20 million payday.
		I need it.
		And I don't want to feel that way.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like Floyd.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like the situation that Floyd's in right now.
		This is crazy.
		I was having a conversation with a friend of mine right now, and he's like, why is Floyd fighting again?
		I go, because he needs money.
		He was like, what?
unidentified		How?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Floyd made more money than anybody ever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like, yeah, but he spent more money than everybody ever.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I try to stay out of that because I don't know the real situation with Floyd because I'm not really in tune on it.
		But the only thing with Floyd that's kind of weird to me is like he loved boxing so much.
		Like you got to actually be around him.
		Like, he wants to be in the gym.
		He wants to like.
		So it'd be hard for me to just believe like, okay, he's just dead broke.
		Like, I don't know.
		It's hard to believe that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, if he's not dead broke, he's definitely got issues.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So he's got a bunch of lawsuits where he owes money.
		You know, Logan Paul says he owes him money.
		He owes money for some other things.
		I don't know.
		I'm with you.
		I don't know.
		But it's also, it's like, I like a guy like Andre Ward.
		I like a guy who goes out on top.
		And, you know, they offered Andre a ton of money to come back and fight Canelo after Canelo beat Kovalev.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he was like, you know what?
		I think I serve boxing better as a commentator and a spokesperson for the sport.
		I made plenty of money.
		I'm undefeated.
		Two division world champion, Olympic gold medalist.
		Bye-bye.
		That's it.
		All faculties intact.
		No worries about his brain health and everything like that.
		That's the way to go out.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Andre Ward is another dude who helped my career.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He helped my career a lot too.
		If I had to, if I need a, if I need something, right?
		Let's say I need something and I need to figure out how to do it or what to do in a situation with weight or whatever it is when it comes to boxing.
		If I'm calling Andre Ward, he's going to give you the best explanation.
		Like out of all the guys, like he explains things from detail.
		Like he's going to detail in and make me really understand what I got to do.
		Like Andre Ward is somebody who I looked up to since a kid.
		So he another guy.
		I just wasn't around him enough in a gym as I was around Bud.
		But like Andre Ward was my favorite fighter as an amateur.
unidentified		Oh, really?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, most people don't know that Andre Ward fought most of his career with one arm.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which is crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which is crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That one arm is his best arm.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He's left-handed for real, for real.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it's still crazy.
unidentified		It is.
unidentified		It's still crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Think about all the guys he beat, and he beat them with a left hand.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then finally got shoulder surgery and then had a right hand and still kind of fucked up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's not 100%.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		You know the misconception about his career?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I feel like when he beat Kovalev, people don't realize how good Kovalev was.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he was good in the day.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like he was insanely like power, boxing, length.
		He had everything.
		A great jab, a great right hand.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And for Andre Wood to go beat that dude, that put the stamp on like his career.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And got dropped.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Got dropped and hurt and recovered and still won.
		I mean, that was big.
		Yeah, Kovalev.
		People see Kovalev when he lost to Canelo.
		He was already kind of washed.
		Yeah, he was already washed.
		He'd been drinking a lot.
		There was a lot of, you know, a lot of these fighters, they get to, like we're saying, it's sustaining that will, that drive, that discipline, that focus.
		It's hard to do.
		But if you go back when he had it, man, when he was in his prime and he was a world champion.
		He was fucking everybody up, man.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He was a killer.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he was scary.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was a killer.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Scary right hand.
unidentified		Woof.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was a pissed off.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'll go back and watch him, too.
		He's another guy that I'll go back and watch.
		I like the way he keeps his distance.
		He keeps his distance really good.
		He got that Eastern European, like, them guys are really good boxers.
		Like, when I watch them, I'm like, okay, like, I love watching Bival.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bival's amazing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I love it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's got such an amazing style.
		I mean, him, Usik, Lomachenko's kind of a cat.
		That's a fight I really wish would have happened between you and him, man.
		Did there ever talk about that?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I messed myself up.
		I kind of did this to myself, so I understand why a lot of fighters wouldn't fight me.
		A lot of fighters wouldn't fight me because I sparred them.
		I messed myself up.
		When I was trying to spar him at that time, I never thought it would be a day of me and him fighting.
		I didn't think that far down the line.
		I really was just thinking he was the best fighter in boxing, number one pound for pound.
		I want to be able to go get in a ring with him and see what like how I can do.
		Like they told me they wasn't even going to pay me for the sparring.
		I'm like, okay, I'm cool.
		I don't want to get paid.
		I'm just here to get in the ring with Limachenko.
		But years later, yeah, the fucking.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How did that go?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		How the sparring went?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think, see, I don't diss nobody in sparring, so I can't say that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We don't have to diss him.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'll keep it real with the sparring.
		I felt like I was outboxing him, but I also knew the level he was on was like his conditioning.
		And that's when it made me like, okay, I got to be in like tip-top conditioning.
		Because the first day we sparred, we did six rounds.
		I felt like it was like, okay, I can outbox him.
		The next time we sparred, he made me do 12 straight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So he made me do 12 straight.
		For the first eight, I'm good.
		Like, I'm good for eight.
		But like, the last four rounds, I want to say, he started picking up the pace.
		And he ain't get off on me, but he got the better of the last four rounds.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you feel like it was because of fatigue a little bit.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was for sure because of fatigue.
		But it wasn't like the skills.
		Like, skillfully, I felt like I was the better fighter.
		Like, I felt like my range and my distance and my speed was kind of better than his.
		But like, from a standpoint of being in shape and throwing more punches, I felt like he was kind of.
		But he was getting ready for his fight.
		I was getting ready for my fight too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a very valuable learning experience, right?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You mean, better to learn it then than to learn it in a fight.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but for real, for real, it messed me up because now it's like, if I'm Lemichenko and I know he was, what, 126 pounds at the time?
		He was a kid.
		Now I see him all grown up.
		He bigger, stronger.
		And I seen what he was doing as a kid, I'd probably be like, why would I test the water with him?
		Like, I wouldn't really want to see that guy.
		That's not the guy I would want to see.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's funny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you think that those sparring matches were the reason why you never got a fight with him?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
		I was surprised T.O. fought me.
		Honestly.
		I was very surprised.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you spar him as well?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But when we sparred, we only did three rounds.
		But he made it seem like he kind of got off on me.
		But honestly, I felt like I was the better fighter.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, T.O.'s a very headstrong guy.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's very tough, very confident guy.
		I mean, look, when he beat Lomachenko, that was a standout performance.
		He had that piston jab, man.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he was sharp.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was sharp.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I watched that fight a thousand times before my fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I just think he knew that Lomachenko was a ghost.
		He was so hard to hit.
		And just he came out explosive.
		He looked so good at that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Lomachenko had a speed to like get his respect.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, I feel like T.O. was kind of faster, and he knew, like, from a speed standpoint, he was going to use it to his advantage.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Also, T.O. was a lot bigger and he was dangerous.
		Like, he was throwing danger with every punch.
		Even that jab had danger behind it.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It was crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I felt like he was strong when I was fighting him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's strong as fuck.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Everybody think that he wasn't, but I'm like, man, I ain't going to lie.
		It was some shots, like, I would catch on the glove and I'd be like, I don't know what you're doing in your training, bro.
		I'm kind of solid.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But look at the size of that motherfucker.
		I mean, he's jacked.
		He looks great.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He's ripped.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's just, but, you know, he's not done.
		And a fight like that with you is a wake-up call for a guy like him, too.
		It's like, man, I got to type it.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's 50-50, though.
		It's 50-50 because sometimes it can play with your mental.
		So some guys don't be the same after getting embarrassed in front of the world like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's come back before, like the Kombosis fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Kombosis dropped him early, and that was a crazy upset.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it was different.
		Because in this instance, he got really embarrassed.
		With Kambosis, it was like it was a 50-50.
		He felt like he won the fight.
		He left feeling that way.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But getting dropped by Kambosis.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Nobody saw that coming.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Nah, I didn't see that coming either.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I ain't going to lie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it was like second round, too, right?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It was a first round.
		But T.O. was fighting dumb.
		I've never seen T.O. even fight like that either.
		He went in there like just trying to knock him out from the first round.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think after the Lomachenko fight, he felt like this dude is not on my level.
		I'm the best fighter in the world.
		You know, that can fuck with your head too.
		Overconfidence can fuck with your head.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'll be trying to like, with, I'll be trying to like stay away from that.
		Like, because I'm very, like, confident in myself.
		So I be scared of being too confident.
		So I be trying to like make guys bigger in my brain.
		Like, oh, this guy is, he's the truth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So that's smart.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I got to.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, I don't have no choice because I'm very confident.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We've all seen fighters that go in unprepared and think that a fighter is not on their level.
		And then that guy puts up Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson.
		Perfect example.
		42-1 underdog.
		And it was a perfect storm because Buster's mama just died.
		And Buster was always one of those guys that was known to be super talented in the gym.
		Super talented, but not dedicated.
		Just not driven.
		Just didn't make the most of his talent.
		But for that one fight, he was like, I'm fighting Mike Tyson.
		I'm not scared of him.
		My mom is dead.
		I'm putting in the fucking work.
		And he came out throwing that jab with the hook off the jab.
		Pop, whap, pop, whap.
		And it was a totally different Buster Douglas.
		Like the best Buster Douglas we've ever seen ever.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That final combination when he knocked Mike Tyson out, dude, I didn't even watch that fight live.
		A friend of mine told me about it.
		I was like, are you fucking serious?
		He told me at the gas station.
		He's like, Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson.
		I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?
		And then I went home and watched it.
		And even while I knew that Buster Douglas had won, I expected Mike Tyson to get up and kill him.
		I was like, I can't believe this is happening.
		That's how much of an upset that was.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was definitely one of the biggest upset.
		I think I don't know because I wasn't during that time, but from what I've seen, it just looked like Mike didn't expect him to be that good.
		Like, it was a shocker.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it was a shocker for everybody.
Buster Douglas's Energy 00:06:38
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But that's boxing.
		That's what can happen in the sport.
		I done seen that happen plenty of times.
		And honestly, it'd be some guys that I see in the gym that I'm like, bro, if you do that stuff on fight night, bro, you'll probably be champion of the world.
		Like, it's a lot of gym fighters who really got talent, but when them bright lights come on, a lot of fighters be kind of different.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And what do you think that is?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think it's pressure.
		I think it's nerves.
		I think it's like it's a lot.
		It's a lot.
		Because I know I felt it.
		Like, I felt it for my fight with T.O.
		I felt pressure.
		I felt all of that kind of stuff.
		But I'm too tough.
		Like, I know my mental ain't gone.
		It's me or that person at the end of the day.
		My life or your life, and I'm going to choose my life when it comes down to it.
		So I was good, but I know it's a lot of fighters that I see in the gym and I'm like, man, I don't understand how you don't perform like this on under the lights.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's always guys like that.
		There's always guys that are potential world champions in the gym.
		And, you know, some people bank on them.
		And some, you know, you go, this guy just needs a mental coach, needs something to get him over that hump.
		But it's always interesting to me because what is the difference between a guy who could just walk out there on fight day and perform at 100% of his ability versus a guy who gets dwarfed by the moment?
		The moment comes, the big pressure.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's all mental.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's all in your head.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		What you thinking and what you believe in and the things that's going on in your brain is what's going to come out.
		Like, I'm already telling myself, like I said, I tell myself it's either me or him.
		So my life or your life.
		And one of us got to go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		One of us got to go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But what do you think is going on?
		I mean, everybody experiences pressure.
		Everybody experiences nerves.
		But what is it about fighters that are so talented that let that overcome them versus fighters oftentimes that maybe not even as talented, but they rise to the occasion when those lights are on?
		When those lights are on, there are fighters that fight better.
		Like, sometimes they look shit in the gym.
		And then when those bright lights are on.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I've had moments like that.
		I done had moments where I'm like, man, I felt bad in the gym.
		I don't know what I had this camp.
		This was a horrible camp.
		And then the fight night comes and I'm like, on point.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's what they said about Ali when he fought George Foreman.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They said he looked terrible in the gym and everybody was nervous about him, but he had a strategy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think with like some fighters is fear.
		Like I think it's fear of like losing or fear of the negative happening.
		And I think with some fighters, they allow fear to control them.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		As in some other fighters who, if I get fearful, I'm going to tack my fears.
		Like I'm not scared to even go and give it a try.
		Whatever happened is going to happen at the end of the day.
		Already already.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is this something that you built up over time, or is it something someone imparted on you when you were young and you embraced it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, how did you learn to have that champion mindset?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think it's wild to say, but I think it's really my little brothers and my little sisters, but really my little brothers.
		I used to go to amateur tournaments, and if I lose and I got to come home to my little brothers, oh, they on me.
		They on me.
		And it's like, you got to come home and they remember the name of the opponent that beat you and they would throw it in your face.
		Oh, don't make me go get Joseph Adorno.
		That's a real guy that beat me back in the day.
		Shout out to Joseph Adorno.
		But I used to have to hear that in the house.
		And now I still be with them.
		So it's like, I know I got to go home to my little brothers and see them after these fights.
		And I had that in the back of my head.
		I'm not coming home to them without the win.
		Like, they got us no.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you tell your little brothers that they do that for you?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't even think I ever said it to them.
		It just was so natural because I used to always get in fights with them and they used to always bring up an opponent that beat me.
		And I'm like, now if I beat everybody, they can't say it no more.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's hilarious.
		That's hilarious.
		Well, because different fighters develop, you know, different ways of rising to the occasion, different ways of maintaining a championships mindset.
		And some of them, they learn it from their coach, you know, Customado, famously trained Tyson and even hypnotized him and told him that you don't exist.
		Only the task exists.
		And he had Mike Tyson just like a fucking machine when he would get into that ring.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think, shout out to my grandfather too, because my grandfather is my coach.
		And like his energy during fight week, like it, they don't even realize like it wasn't even just the coaching that he was doing.
		It's like the energy that he kind of gave off to me.
		It reminded me of me when, like I was a kid and me and him would go to amateur tournaments and like he just so like amped up and like ready, and like it kind of brought on to me and it kind of got me like amped up as him like okay, I gotta, I got, I gotta stand on business for my grandfather.
		I got to, I don't got no choice.
		Oh wow, but he's definitely a great coach.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So family is a big thing for you.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, family is everything for me.
		Like I enjoy spending time with my family.
		Like I'm not like a lot of these boxers.
		Like, with all due respect to them, they like the fame, the All that kind of stuff.
		The cars, the I'm more so like, I get a big check.
		I want to go on vacation with my family or go chill with my family.
		And I don't like doing stuff.
		Like, I enjoy spending time with my daughter.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's great.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, I'm different.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'm not like them guys.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's so smart.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's so smart because all that other shit just drains your bank account, distracts you from your goals, gets in the way of things.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's like when I was a kid, I used to want the fame.
		I used to be like, oh, I want to be famous.
		I want everybody to know me.
		But it's like once you get it, it's like, ah, I don't like this.
		I don't like this.
		Like, you go places, people pulling their phones out, and like, it's weird.
Rehydration Clause Controversy 00:12:22
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		They're trying to record you.
		Like, bro, why are you?
		I'm just a regular person.
		Like, that's how I feel.
		Like, everybody bleeds.
		We all the same.
		We all human.
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So I kind of move with that kind of thought process.
		And I feel like a lot of people don't move with that.
		Like, especially people in my position.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can get inflated.
		Your head can get screwy.
		It's like you got to balance two things at the same time.
		One, you are the elite of the elite.
		You are a world champion and one of the pound-for-pound best to ever do it.
		And then on top of that, you're just a human being.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And we're all just human beings.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But what we like, what people love about watching championship caliber fighters and championship performances in any sport is watching just a regular human do something extraordinary.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that gives us inspiration.
		Like when I watch a great fight, I feel better for the rest of the day.
		Like when I go to bed, I feel great.
		Like I watched that fight.
		I went to bed.
		I was like, woo, I felt great.
		I texted Josh right after, right, right after it was like, right after it was happening.
		And that's how we got in touch.
		Josh Dubin, shout out to Josh.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Shout out to Josh.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But I remember I'm like, dude, that was extraordinary.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then next thing you know, we're on the phone.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Definitely was a great, great night, great night of boxing.
		I enjoyed it.
		I'm just glad to be here.
		Like, all glory to God.
		I'm glad to be here.
		I've been here.
		I've been here.
		I've been telling people, like, I'm the best.
		I'm better than these guys.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You have, but you needed that breakout.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You needed that breakout performance.
		And the problem is, everybody knew you were so good.
		It was hard to get someone to sign up for that breakout performance.
		Because for a breakout performance, you need another dude who's had breakout performances that everybody respects and knows.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like Tia Femo.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's why that was my main reason fighting.
		I'm telling you, I watched him in Town Square.
		I looked.
		I said, we fight him.
		We fight him.
		I want to fight him.
		He looked really good.
		He looked really good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That Times Square card was weird.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He was the best fighter on the car.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		100%.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		No question.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It looked like everybody was playing it safe on that card.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it did.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like Devin Haney, the Devin Haney fight was odd.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		What I learned from that card, I felt like them fighters didn't have enough adrenaline pumping.
		Like, I feel like Ryan, I know when he got in the ring, his adrenaline couldn't have been too high because it was like sparring.
		Like, it was like not a lot of people there.
		It wasn't like that much pressure.
		You could hear everything somebody is saying.
		I know Ryan heard me all night.
		Like, he had to hear me.
		I was cheering him on, like, telling him, like, man, throw the hook, throw the hook, throw the hook.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was when he fought Roley, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was a wake-up call, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, that was another fight where people did not expect Roley to beat Ryan.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'd be throwing off.
		I didn't expect it either.
		That was one of the fights where I kind of like vouch for Ryan.
		I'm like, man, he got skills.
		He's a skillful fighter.
		Then he got in there.
		I don't know what he was doing.
		Like, I didn't understand what was happening.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's one of them things where he has the fight with Devin.
		He beats Devin, gets popped, you know, for whatever he was on, Osterine.
		And then there's like, he's got a long time off.
		There's a lot of people mad at him.
		There's a lot of people, you know, which is such an unfortunate thing if you think about his performance against Devin because that was incredible.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the problem is he got caught.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He got caught.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So like, I don't know.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, for me personally, if you got caught, it's like, I can't really, me, I can't give you the credit for that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't, I don't give him credit for that night with Devin.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but steroids don't help you land punches.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I get it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They help you recover in training.
		They help you train a little harder.
		They might give you a little bit more power, but that left hook was on point.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that little bit of more power probably wasn't enough to hurt Devin.
		Because if you really watch the fight and pay attention to the fight, and people might not agree with me on this, but I feel like Devin was winning the moments that was quiet.
		Like when people's not really, ah, Devin is winning most of the boxing match, but the moments where Ryan was so loud and everybody got to see him get hurt and knocked down to where I just feel like Devin...
		if he didn't get dropped by them punches, he could have won that fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But he did get dropped.
		That's the problem.
		And also.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But what if the Astering was helping his power?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what was his last fight against Delgado?
		Who was his last opponent?
		Who?
		Ryan.
		Who's the guy he dropped?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Mario Barrios.
unidentified		Barrios.
unidentified		That's right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Barrios is a guy that was like tailor-made for a guy like Ryan.
		Like, he's a tough dude.
		He's very durable.
		Takes a good shot, but he's not that fast.
		Yeah, and Ryan was super fast in that fight.
		Yeah, he looked real good.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he looked good.
unidentified		He looked good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Real good in that fight.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And it wasn't just like because people think when I'm saying, like, oh, well, you don't know whether he's cheating or not.
		I'm not saying that in the aspect of his boxing skills.
		Like, he clearly got boxing skills.
		Like, you can clearly see Ryan know how to move his feet.
		He knows how to keep his distance, use his long length.
		He can clearly box.
		I've been saying this for years.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he boxes very well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And also, he showed that he has a right hand, too.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was surprising.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And he used it like the whole night.
		Like, he just kept throwing it.
		So that was very surprising.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, of course, if you want to be a complete fighter, he had to develop a right hand and start using it more because that left hook is just world-class.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and he was not only throwing it straight, he was throwing it around the guard.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That was kind of nice.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was a beautiful performance for him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Has there been any talk about you two matching up?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it has.
		But like I said, everything got to make sense.
		Like, people don't understand that I walk around in my 40s.
		So if I'm walking around in my 40s, I don't think me going to 147, like when I fight at 147, I think that will be my last weight class, like in my career.
		Like I don't see myself going past 147 ever.
		But I'm 28 right now.
		I got a long way to go.
		So I don't plan on moving to 47 no time soon.
		So if the fight happens at whatever weight class that I say, then I'm cool with it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Can he make 40 again?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He said he could.
		He the one who came out and said, like, let's fight at 140.
		He said that.
		So if he said that, it's like, okay, you can make the weight, then let's do it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What weight was the Javante fight?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Was that 140?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That fight was at 136.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then he gave him a rehydration clause, too.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 10 pounds.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Very smart.
		Very smart.
		Very smart, right?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I mean, yeah, it was in that situation, but I mean, I just feel like with the rehydration clause at that time, when you're already bringing somebody down to like a weight class that they haven't fought in years, it's like you could have not put the rehydration clause.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, it wasn't necessary at that point in time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it was necessary.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it helped a lot.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It helped a lot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you can only rehydrate 10 pounds and you know he's way bigger than that, Ryan's a big guy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He looked weak on fight night.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, he looked too weak.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But I guess those dollars, that paycheck was just too tempting.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I didn't want to fight Javante.
		I never understood that move.
		I never understood it.
		Because if I'm Ryan Garcia and I got a big name in the sport and all of that kind of stuff, why would I accept everything into somebody else's favor?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think because that's the only way he could get the fight.
unidentified		You know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, well, this is the same thing when Canelo fought Floyd, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Floyd made him go down to 152.
unidentified		Remember?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But it wasn't no rehydration clause.
unidentified		Was it?
		Nope.
		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Even if there's not.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Floyd ain't never a rehydration clause, nobody else.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But if you make a guy get down to 152, even if you give him a rehydration clause, like that's going to drain something out of your tank.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But is it right?
		Because my question is, wasn't they fighting at 154?
		Wasn't Canelo fighting at 154?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Normally.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So he ain't got a struggle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But you know that last, you're not a big weight cutter, but if you were, that last two pounds is death.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When you're already drained out, because he was a big guy for 154.
		And to drain out and get all the way down to 152, that had to be hard.
		He didn't look the same on fight day.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		You don't think so?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think Floyd was just a virtuoso that night.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Floyd looks so good.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That night, I don't think if he was 154, 160, I don't think he was beating Floyd.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think you're probably right, but I also think Floyd was smart to get him down to 152.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		For sure, the business.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's like every angle you can get, every advantage you can get is a good one.
		I do agree with you about the rehydration clause.
		Like, get out of here with that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But we got to understand, too, right?
		Because I get Floyd in that instinct.
		If a guy is going to blow up to, let's say, what?
		We'll just do me and Ryan Garcia, for example.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to blow up like 148.
		He's going to blow up 168 to 170.
		Now it's like you're in a ring with somebody that is like 20 pounds bigger than you.
		And Floyd still allowed Canelo to get big because he got big at the getting down to 152.
		So it's like, I kind of feel it in a way.
		Like I understand it.
		Now, the rehydration clause is kind of crazy, but I will only do a rehydration clause for fighters if I go up to 147 pounds.
		Because I'm not a 147 pounder.
		So I fight at their weight class where they're comfortable.
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Just make it easy for them.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, I don't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing about a fighter like you is it's just difficult to find big names.
		I mean, if Gervante fights again, that's a big fight.
		But that would probably be at 135, which you could probably still make easy, right?
unidentified		Easy.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		No problem.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you have fights at 135 and fights at 140, but it's just going to be hard to get someone to step up that is going to be that big pay-per-view selling fight.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the problem.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That is the problem.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're too good.
		That's the problem.
		You're too good.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Somebody told me that before I went pro before.
		They was like, you're going to have a hard time in the pros.
		I'm telling you.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But I understand it now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember your first pro fight?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You remember what it felt like?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It felt like a whole new experience.
unidentified		Really?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How so?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I've been when I was in the amateurs, guys wasn't as like dirty as the professionals.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, you don't get introduced into dirty boxing until you turn professional.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Didn't you get head-butted in your first fight?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He head-butted me, and that's what kind of purpose, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not an accidental headbutt.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's what kind of make me say, okay, I understand.
		This is a whole different atmosphere.
		It's not the same amateur and the pros.
		And a lot of guys from the amateurs don't adjust to the pros as well as I did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, well, it's all about styles, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, there's some guys who have styles that are just much better for point fighting.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Wow, it's actually, um, you got to develop a lot of things like punch placement.
		Like, punching hard is really a real thing in the pros.
		Like, you got to have something to make somebody respect you.
		That's why when I hear people say, like, I got pillow hands, I'm like, y'all clearly must not be watching.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Who's saying that?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It'd be a lot of people.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		They say, I got pillow hands.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, you just fight smart.
Pillow Hands Confusion 00:06:45
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand it because it's like, if I had pillow hands, right?
		Why guys don't just go in there and just knock me out?
		Like, if I'm fighting somebody with pillow hands, I'm just going to put my shield up and just swing for the fences because they can't hurt me.
		Like, right.
		I don't understand why nobody won't do that if I got pillow hands.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't have pillow hands.
		It's nonsense talk.
		What you have is a boxing intelligence where you know when to hit full blast and when to just touch them up and crack them a little bit.
		And the accumulation of blows, the frustration, the mental confusion that a fighter gets when they can't hit you and you can hit them.
		And then you start ramping it up and then you start tuning them up.
		I mean, it's people that the people that are saying that just don't understand what you're doing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What you're doing is just perfect.
		You're fighting intelligent.
		And that's what I love.
		I love watching a guy just outbox the fuck out of somebody.
		I love it.
		Like I said, that like you were doing this like half-speed jab and then from right there, pop!
		And you could tell T.O. was like, Jesus Christ.
		You could tell he was confused.
		It was so fast.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It was too fast.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was so fast.
		But that accumulation of blows over time.
		And his corner, it was crazy.
		Did you listen to the fight?
		Like, did you go back and watch it?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I went back and watched it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		His corner is like, you got to hit him.
unidentified		Like, what?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's so crazy, though, because, like, what I see with his corner is, like, he's been doing this.
		Like, his dad been getting in the ring and giving him numb type of instructions.
		But T.O. has been always so good to where the instructions he's giving them really does not matter because he's in control.
		He's winning these fights.
		He's doing what he's supposed to do.
		But that night, he did need a real coach.
		Yeah, he needed something better than that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, not that his dad's not a real coach, but he needed some tactical advice.
		He needed some instruction on what this guy's doing to you, and you got to switch it up entirely.
		You got to do something that confuses him.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		His dad is used to something different.
		That's why he went in there and said, Where's your power, bro?
		He's used to T.O.'s power showing up and the amazing things that T.O. does in the boxing ring.
		He's used to that.
		But whenever you're going against somebody who's on a different level, also, you got to be well prepared within a game plan.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		All that kind of stuff.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And I didn't see no game plan.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you know anybody that was in his camp or ask anybody after the fight?
		Like, what was his game plan?
		What did he think was going to be different?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Nah, I didn't actually.
unidentified		I just.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'd be interested to know that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do too.
		But I did run into him after the fight.
		I ran into T.O. in the back.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Was he cool?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was cool.
		It was actually a good conversation.
		I felt bad that he was by himself.
		His manager kind of cleaned it up.
		But during the moment that I seen him in the back, he was by himself.
		So I didn't like that.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I didn't like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, that's a bummer.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But, I mean, they said they were with him all night.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So respect to them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So maybe he just caught him in a moment when he was alone.
		Yeah, that's the last thing you want to see is a dude who gets abandoned after a loss.
		Like, oh, my God.
		And then you got to go back to camp with those assholes.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't even like how the sport is kind of treating him now.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, everybody acts like he's just this terrible fighter.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand it when you got to give him respect.
		Like, this dude actually stepped up and fought a guy that nobody else wants to fight.
		So he did it.
		He got in the ring and laid it on the line.
		It didn't go his way, but he did.
		He tried.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The thing is, I don't know if that guy's ever going to separate from his father.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't know if that guy ever is going to bring in another world-class trainer that maybe would be able to recognize some things that he's doing that he can improve upon.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's so crazy.
		During the fight, he had a coach in his corner.
		And I know the coach, he's from Florida, I want to say his coach was telling him some good advice.
		I don't think he heard him or was listening to him, but he was telling him some good advice.
unidentified		Really?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't want to say what the advice is because I got future opponents I got to make sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, someone could go back and listen.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can't tell what the advice was, but he was giving him some good advice.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
		Yeah, it's hard.
		Those father-son teams, there's always a lot of conflict with those.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because I done watched it over the years.
		I feel like dads like stay on top of a fighter and they like it, they make it less fun.
		And I feel like that's why I think my granddad is one of the best coaches because he allowed me to love the sport of boxing myself.
		Like, when I had my football games and my pop won the games, he came to my game, watched them, cheered on, supported me.
		But as soon as I lost, I'm on the field crying.
		I'm like, oh, he comes up to me, he say, you know, in boxing, you only could lose because of yourself.
		And I'm looking, I'm like, what do you mean by?
		I'm like, oh, that is true.
		Because, like, you're the one in a boxing ring doing the boxing.
		And when I lost that football game, he was basically trying to say it was my coach's fault.
		So, like, he just allowed me to choose boxing, though.
		Like, he always supported me when I did other things, but he kind of like he ain't just stay on top of me, like, hound me with it.
		Like, right.
		He just took me to the gym.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you got to let a young man become his own man.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he allowed me to choose it.
		And I think fathers in the sport don't allow their sons to choose it too.
		Like, they're choosing it for them.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of them are overbearing in the corner.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It becomes a problem.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And they kind of be coaches should listen to what I'm about to say.
		The father coaches.
		There has to be a difference between a father and a coach.
		So when you're coaching your son, you have to be a coach in the boxing ring instead of the father.
		Because when you're the father, they're going to reciprocate things wrong.
		And I feel like with coaches, when you coaching, they can hear you a lot better.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, there's also the relationship with the father and the son where the father wants a son to listen to him.
		Listen to me.
		I'm your father.
Why Lemachenko Stands Out 00:11:00
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You go out.
		You're going to do this.
		You're like, fuck the fuck off of me.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fuck off me, dad.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And you doing more harm to your son than you're actually doing good for him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, especially not giving him technical advice.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, that is where he needed real technical advice.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because there was a lot of shit you were doing that he just did not have an answer for.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He didn't understand.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He didn't understand.
		He didn't clean up his bad habits.
		And that's the thing with these fighters.
		A lot of them got bad habits and things that they do.
		And I'm going to expose it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, the environment that you came up in and having a guy like Terrence and having other elite fighters that you train with all the time, that's so important.
		It's so invaluable.
		Because all that shit gets exposed in the gym.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It does.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's where you work on it at.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's where you work on it.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		If you ain't work on it in the gym, on fight night, it's going to be exposed.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's no if, ands, or buts about it.
		Yeah.
		How important do you think an amateur career is?
		Like, do you think a guy like Lomachenko maybe would have been an even better boxer if he didn't have so many amateur fights and went into the pros at an earlier age?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think an amateur career is important because you got to have that experience.
		But I done seen different to where like guys are developed a lot more in the gym.
		Like I done seen guys stay in the gym, not go to tournaments, and they'll get better and better.
		And then out of nowhere, they'll go to one tournament and then you'll be like, who the fuck is this guy?
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Where did he come from?
		How did he get so good?
		And I think like developing in the gym is like the biggest thing.
		Like who you sparring, who you training with, all of that stuff really matters the most.
		The amateur experience is cool.
		Like, oh, Lemachenko.
		But if Lemachenko had different things around him in a gym, I feel like he probably would have been a better fighter.
		Well, it's already good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		With Lomachenko, it's so crazy because he really should have been fighting at 126.
		I mean, he really was never a 140-pound fighter.
		He's a small guy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't understand that.
		I didn't understand that because I think it kind of tarnished his career in a way to where, like, the way people look at him.
		People don't look at him the same as they should because he was really, really good, but he was at a weight class that he really wasn't supposed to be at.
		So, of course, you're going to have like a harder time with them bigger guys.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like T.O.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like T.O.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was a perfect example.
		Tio was huge in that fight.
		He looked so much bigger than Lomachenko and just so dangerous that it like fucked Lomachenko's strategy up.
		Because, you know, you got missiles coming at you from a giant dude.
		I mean, TO is stacked.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And so you got to think, like, for those guys, I guess it's just about chasing the multiple world titles and the bigger money at the higher weight classes.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what with Lemachenko, though.
		He acted like he wasn't really super money hungry.
		So I never really understood.
		It seemed like he's maybe, yeah, you're right.
		He was chasing Undisputed.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Undisputed and world titles.
		I feel like he got robbed in a Devin Haney fight, though.
		Do you think that?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		To this day, yeah, I do think.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I scored the fight for Lemachenko.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I did, too.
		I watched it three times in a row because I was like, what am I getting wrong here?
		Am I getting this wrong before I start talking about it?
		And I was like, no, no, Lomachenko should have won.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I thought Lomachenko won.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was one of those where I was like, ooh.
		And I think that fight fucked with Devin Haney's head a little bit.
		Like, that makes you feel like shit.
		When you win a fight and everybody thinks that you lost the fight and you got like, then you have to carry that around with you everywhere.
		Everybody like, Lomachenko beat you.
		You're like, no, he didn't.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a mental battle.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's a mental battle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then you got to get it back.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think in that fight, he really wasn't even finding the best version of Devin because Devin was fighting at a weight class he really shouldn't have been at.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What was that fight at?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Was that 35?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then Devin should have been at 140.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		At that time, yeah, he should have been at 140.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He was too big for 35.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's interesting, man, that balance of we're all fucked up in MMA because MMA, there's too few weight classes.
		And so there's giant gaps, like huge gaps, like at 185 to 205, you know, 155 to 170.
		There's no weight classes in between.
		I mean, that's nuts.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's insane.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's guys that's like little fighting bigger guys because it ain't enough weight classes for them to be in.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So that sounds crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's stupid.
		It's the one major complaint that I've had with the UFC for a decade.
		I was like, we need way more weight classes.
		And they're like, no, I want to keep it pure.
		These are the champs.
		There's only eight champs.
		Like, no, that's crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I need to start watching the UFC.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's fun.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's one this weekend in Vegas if you're around.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to watch some of it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a good one.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to watch it because I'm lost.
		I'm not really in tune with a lot of the UFC guys.
		And the UFC people be kind of mad at me when I say boxing is better, but it's my sport.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Of course, you're going to think it's better.
		It's what your life is based around.
		Of course.
		And if you talk to Max Holloway, he's going to say MMA is better.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And they got good explanations.
		Like, I understand what they're saying.
		Like, you could do, it's more like skills you got to learn in MMA.
		But for me, I just feel like boxing, like the skill level and the talent for me, I like better.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is no question.
		The skill level and the talent when it comes to punching is way better in boxing.
		You see some sloppy shit that people do in MMA with boxing, but you also have to think they're thinking about takedowns.
		They're thinking about getting kicked.
		They're thinking about their calves getting kicked out from under them.
		Their legs getting kicked.
		Their body getting kicked.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		They're just messing up.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		They're punching.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Everything.
		Knees, elbows.
		And then there's stuff that you do in boxing that you can't do in MMA because your legs are exposed.
		There's certain positions that you would throw punches in that a guy would just calf kick you.
		And you get hit with one of those and you're like, oh, shit.
		And all of a sudden, your calf is numb and you're not moving good and your ankle doesn't work.
		It's terrible.
		But that's the beauty of that sport is that it's so diverse.
		But the beauty of boxing is that it's so concentrated on hand techniques that the boxing techniques in boxing are far superior than what you're going to see in MMA.
		You see a few guys in MMA that could make it as pro boxers, but you don't see your level or, you know, or they can't be elite level.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's no way you can.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's impossible.
unidentified		No.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		You ain't been doing it for long enough.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just like you don't see these elite MMA fighters that could compete in jiu-jitsu tournaments and win world championships.
		It's very, very rare.
		The only way that happens is if they were a world champion in jiu-jitsu before they got into MMA and they still have those skills at a very, very high level, then some of those guys can kind of compete in world-class levels.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		What would you say is the best skill in the MMA?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wrestling.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Wrestling.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I knew it.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I already knew it before I asked.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because wrestlers can take everybody down.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And if you get taken down, you're fucked.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I want to learn how to wrestle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a great.
		Well, Terrence, show you how.
		Terrence is one of the only boxers that are like, if that guy fought in MMA, he could do very well.
unidentified		He would.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He would do very well.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I watched him wrestle an actual USA team wrestler.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He could wrestle.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was good.
		He was good.
		He wasn't getting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's not lost.
		Yeah, he knows what he's doing.
		And look, his son just won a state title.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
		He's the truth.
		I want to learn how to wrestle, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a good thing to know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a good thing because it's a humbling thing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I feel like they're the strongest people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, I feel like when it comes to strength, like real strength, their bodies are, like, stronger than most.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's a different thing.
		When they get a hold of you, you feel like a child.
		You just get ragdolled.
		You're like, this is embarrassing.
		You know, that's the most important skill I feel.
		But every fight starts standing up.
		Every round starts standing up.
		At the beginning of the round, you're standing up again, so that guy's got to take you down again.
		And in that transition.
		Yeah, that's when you can catch someone.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I figured that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look, there's elite fighters that aren't great wrestlers in MMA, like Alex Pereira, who's a two-division world champion.
		But he's just a destructive kickboxer.
		He's such a terrifying kickboxer.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		What is John Jones?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		John Jones is a wrestler.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He's a wrestler?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's an everything fighter.
		He could do everything.
		But he started out his career as a wrestler.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I like him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's the best ever.
		The best ever.
		He's the best ever because he's the smartest of all of them.
		I mean, that guy studs.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's why I liked him.
		That's exactly what I like.
		I seen a video of him saying he watches everything from top to bottom.
		He's going to watch your interviews.
		He's going to watch every single thing until he finds a weakness.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's why I like him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he gets inside their head.
		He knows every tendency they do.
		He sets traps.
		He does everything.
		It's funny.
		Daniel Cormier, who I love to death, is a great friend of mine.
		When he fought John Jones, they were talking before the fight about tendencies.
		And Daniel's like, oh, I know what you think I'm going to do.
		You think I'm going to lean towards the right?
		And you're going to kick me in the head.
		And John did exactly that in a fight.
		It was so crazy when he landed it.
		Like, I love both of those guys, but Daniel's a close friend.
		And so when he landed that head kick, I was like, no.
		You know, and I'm doing commentary, so I've got to like, I've got to be balanced.
		And, you know, I do love both of those guys, but I was like, damn, he did exactly what he said he was going to do.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		You said it on the commentary?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say it on the commentary.
		I don't want to call it out there.
		But in the pre-fight, they were talking shit to each other.
		And one of the things is like, you have some tendencies, Daniel, and I'm going to exploit those tendencies.
		And he's like, oh, you mean how I dip to the right when I go.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And he did exactly that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He caught him with that head kick.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was like, no.
unidentified		Oh.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But look, that's the GOAT.
		That's the guy, man.
		He's the guy.
		He's the guy who always figures out a way to win.
		He figures it out.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I heard it was somebody that he was supposed to fight, though, that wanted to fight him.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He was like somebody really good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Tom Aspinall?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what I mean.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, the thing with that is, you know, John is at the stage of his career where he's like, I want to fight legends and I want to fight fights that are like big fights against big names that matter.
		Tom Aspinall carried a high risk.
		He wasn't a very well-known fighter, even though he's the heavyweight champion.
		And he was really the heavyweight champion because John resigned the title.
		So he was the interim heavyweight champion.
		So they had an interim title.
		And John was the undisputed heavyweight champion.
Clarissa's Dominance In Boxing 00:05:39
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And they were supposed to fight.
		And they didn't make that happen.
		But now, you know, after that fight, John is still trying to figure out if he's going to fight again.
		If he's going to fight again, maybe he will fight because there's a big White House card in.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I heard about that.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And the White House card is a big one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And if that happens, it won't be Aspinall probably because Aspinall just went through eye surgery.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Two different eye surgeries.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He got poked in the eyes in his fight.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Aren't you involved in the UFC?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm the commentator.
unidentified		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm one of the commentators.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So are you going to be doing like Zoofa boxing too?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, that's Kellerman, Andre Ward.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They do a great job over there.
unidentified		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'll definitely watch some of those fights, though.
		I think it's interesting.
		I think it's good to have more organizations that are competing to get the fighters because then the fighters will get more money.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Money, yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I think MMA could use that too.
		Unfortunately, the UFC is the big name in MMA.
		And MMA, unlike boxing, is all about the UFC.
		In boxing, it's all about who's the champ.
		Nobody gives a shit if it's Golden Boy or Bob Arum.
		Nobody gives a fuck who the promoter is.
		It's like, who is the fighter that's fighting?
		Is it Triple G versus Canelo?
		Who are the fighters?
		And unfortunately, with MMA, it's not that.
		It's like if you are an excellent fighter, but you fight for the PFL, nobody knows.
		Nobody knows.
		There's a small audience of hardcore people that pay attention to that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Who fight for the PFL?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Clarissa, huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she fought for the PFL.
		She's crazy.
		That lady's wild.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		She's the best.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's wild.
		Oh, she's the best.
		She's the best.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		There's nobody better.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, she's the heavyweight champ now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I just wish she was kind of smaller so like some of the smaller girls who really think that they can beat her can see like there's levels.
unidentified		Man.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		She's the GOAT.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She is the GOAT, but she's not getting, I mean, as much as the love that she does get, she's not getting what she deserves.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And it's just because there's just not a lot of competition.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand it.
		I don't understand it.
		Two Olympic gold medals undisputed several times in the sport.
		I just don't get it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just women's boxing does not have the same level of respect and appreciation that men's boxing does, unfortunately.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Well, Clarissa, I respect and appreciate you, and you are my GOAT.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do as well.
		I've had her on.
		She's awesome.
		I've had her on the podcast.
		I'm a big fan of her.
		And just the only one that had the courage to fight in MMA.
		I mean, that was crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		She's tough.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And she really did, like, not bad, but she was fighting against lesser competition.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But she definitely was like, you could tell she was charming.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She had to learn the grappling from a beginner's perspective.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And she was breaking out of them like chokeholds.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, she knows how to win, you know, and sometimes that's enough.
		You know, at that high a level, as elite a level as she is.
		But I think she's rightly just concentrating on boxing because I think she realizes that to be a world champion in MMA, she'd kind of have to abandon boxing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And it would be a long journey.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And she'd probably have to absorb a couple more losses.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It ain't really worth it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fuck these girls up in boxing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And I know she don't like losing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, not at all.
		No.
		She's fun.
		She's a fun fighter to watch, though.
		If anybody can get people to pay attention to women's boxing, it's Clarissa.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because she's exciting.
		I don't see it.
		That's why I don't understand.
		I don't get it.
		She deserves all her flowers.
		She's the true fam.
		I never seen nobody, no female as good as her ever in my life.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, she's probably the greatest of all time.
		I think everybody would agree.
		You know, you've had a few, there's a few great fighters over the years that have been female fighters, but she's the real standout.
		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		No question.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just, unfortunately, that sport, I mean, there's not a lot of women out there that want to get punched in the face.
		If you had a room full of a thousand women, there might be like one or two like, I'll try that.
		You know what I mean?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Now, I think it's some solid female fighters in the sport of boxing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there are.
unidentified		There are.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But not in comparison to the numbers in men.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Men's boxing is just, you know, a lot of kids grow up, they want to be a boxer.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not a lot of women are like, let me put the doll down and fuck some chick up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's an unusual mindset.
unidentified		Yeah, it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's just, you know, it is what it is.
		It's, we're fortunate to be able to have her, though.
		Like, because, like, if there's anybody that's going to elevate the sport and bring in new fighters, it's going to be someone who is really the only person in the sport that gets a tremendous amount of attention as a woman.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		She done became a superstar.
		So it's definitely interesting seeing her in like them big arenas and having all the people walk out with her.
		And it's amazing to see.
		So I'm enjoying her process and I'm glad that I'm here to witness it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, me too.
		Yeah.
		I mean, but, you know, other than her, in the past, there haven't been enough women that have like really, you know, Christy Martin, Leila Lee, and there's like a few that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I like Ann Wolf.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ann Wolf was a beast.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I like her.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She was one of the few that could flatline a chick with one shot, too.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I like her.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		She was the truth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, man.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		She was the truth.
Watching The Champ 00:15:45
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And a great trainer, too.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When she was training Kirkland.
		Yeah.
		Bro, they showed those videos of what she was putting him through.
		And, you know, when he fought Canelo, he didn't have her in his corner.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I was just about to say the fights that he lost, he kind of did not have her, huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And the fights.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She was a fucking general, dude.
		She was a general.
		She put him through some brutal shit.
		But those were the fights that he was ultra prepared.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think that's the, like, people don't realize.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I feel like the best coaches in the sport of boxing are the people that kind of box.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I bet.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like Robert Garcia.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think he's the truth as a coach.
unidentified		Sure.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Bomack.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Bomack, another fighter.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Buddy McGurt.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Buddy McGurt.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he was a great fighter.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I just feel like the coaches that's been in there is kind of right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		They know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Yeah.
		I think it helps a lot.
		I mean, there's a few guys, like Emmanuel Stewart.
		Did he have an amateur background?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		I'm not sure.
		I think so, though.
unidentified		I think so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel just had a brilliant mind for the sport.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I like the way he talked, too.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'll be watching some of his old videos.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He actually, it was something that I was doing in my fight for this fight, but I watched a video of him and he said fighters overtrain, like they're over-trained.
		And when I seen it, he started explaining the reasons why you know that they over-training.
		And I seen it, and I started cutting back on some of the things that I'm doing.
		I'm like, man, I don't want to over-train and don't come out at my best.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Amateur boxing career, he compiled a record of 94 wins, three losses, and the amateur, including winning the 1963 National Golden Gloves Tournament in the Bantamweight Division.
		Wow, Bantamweight.
		That's crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he was small.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
		But man, what he did with the Cronk gym, he also had this gym like cranked up.
		He made it like 98 degrees in there all the time.
		So everybody was like training in the heat.
unidentified		Yep.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He had a lot of boxers that was like top-level boxers in there.
		So they was pushing each other to get better.
		So that's the cheat code right there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is the cheat code, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Iron sharpens iron.
unidentified		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can't be the best boxer in your gym and have everybody else that's way below you and really get to that world-class level.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Impossible.
		It's impossible.
		You got to bring in guys that's on a high level.
		And honestly, for me, I keep like the young kids that's like up and coming.
		Like my little cousin, he's a great boxer and he's up and coming.
		And I just was in the gym with him yesterday and play sparring with him.
		And I keep a lot of good boxers around me.
		A lot of good boxers.
		There's another kid, Emmanuel Chance.
		He's like 19 years old.
		And like they are so skillful right now to where like when I'm around them, I'm still picking up things from them.
		And they probably don't even know it, but I'm definitely, I got my notepad out everywhere I go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's so important, right?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like mentally it's locked in here.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like I'm watching this study.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So everybody does everything different.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, and you can just pick up little things here and there from what they do and start incorporating that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		People don't know right before the fight with T.O. It was, I'm going to tell you a fight that I was watching.
unidentified		Okay.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to give out a little secret.
		It was an eight-year-old kid, Tremaine Williams.
		He fought a guy named Dusty Harrison.
		And like they literally eight years old.
		But I like the way Tremaine was fighting in that fight.
		He was using his jab.
		And he was the shorter fighter, but he was keeping his range and distance.
		And I was literally watching an eight-year-old kid fight right before the biggest fight of my life.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And you were studying.
		Wow.
		I swear.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's great.
		That's such a great mindset.
		I mean, that's how you really grow and learn.
		You could absorb something from everybody.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can learn from anywhere.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, I was watching an interview with you once where you were talking about Terrence, and you said you really learn more watching Terrence than being in there.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I still feel that way.
		Like, I feel like I learn more from seeing the things he's doing than being in the ring with him.
		Now, when we're in the ring, it's always chess.
		Like, we're having chess matches.
		But when I'm watching, I could see some of the things he's doing.
		And I'm like, damn, this dude is just different.
		Like, I knew before the Spence fight what was happening.
		I knew before the Canelo fight what was happening.
		Like, even when I was in the locker room, I'm in the locker room.
		I'm looking at him.
		Call my Batman.
		I'm like, yo, put me some more money.
		I know what time it is.
		No lie, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But watching him in the gym, you got to see hard training sessions.
		You got to see when he looked great.
		You got to see bad days in the gym.
		You got to see how he recovered, how he came back.
unidentified		Yep.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like I said, he's one of the most competitive human beings I ever met.
		So I do get to see all of it.
		Like, I get to see, go home with him.
		Okay, let me see how he's thinking about this.
		He'll go back and watch the sparring.
		And when he watching it, oh, my God, he's adjusting.
		His brain is just adjusting to the sparring that he just watched.
		And then we'll go in the gym the next day.
		And now he's just doing things and everything just on point.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So do you do that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you watch your sparring sessions?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I learned that from him.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I used to really never used to do that.
		But I had seen him.
		I forget what sparring session he was watching.
		I want to say on his iPad.
		And he was watching it.
		And then I seen him spar the next time.
		And I'm like, ooh, we look like a million bucks.
		Like, the adjustments that he made was just insane.
		So I started doing the same thing.
		I'm like, if I have a day I don't like, I go home.
		Why did I have this day?
		Oh my God.
		I keep doing that.
		Why do I keep doing it?
		Okay, I'm not doing that no more.
		Oh, I could hit him with this.
		I see that shot is open.
		Okay, now I'm going to hit him with this shot.
		And I think that helps me tremendously.
unidentified		That makes sense.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, watching yourself as an observer the way you would watch an opponent.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		You got to see what you do good and like what you do bad.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And correct the things that you do bad.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Instead of just remembering it from the training, watching it.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Because I have like a bad habit sometimes when I'm like in a boxing gym.
		I like a fight.
		I don't have like, I don't know why I will get in there.
		Sometimes I just turn into a fighter instead of realizing that I'm a boxer.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And then sometimes I get hit with shots and I'm like, oh, why am I getting hit with that shot?
		I'm like, I know.
		My mental, my brain was already locked in on fighting instead of being locked in on boxing.
		And then you fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Explain to people what is the difference between your mentality fighting and your mentality as a boxer.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		When I'm fighting, I'm emotional.
		Like, and I don't want to be emotional, but I'm emotional.
		And then I'm fighting somebody.
		I'm trying to beat them up.
		And I'm having a contest of who's the bigger and stronger guy.
		And when I'm boxing, I'm just on top of my game.
		And it's like, I'm able to hit you.
		And you're not able to hit me.
		And that's what I do best.
		So I try to like stick with what I do best.
		And it's going to be a time to fight.
		So I have that in my arsenal for sure.
		I don't like just doing it for no reason.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you sometimes feel yourself getting emotional fight and have to pull it back?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I never had it happen in a fight, but I done had it happen in the spirit to where, like, all right, bro, you your emotions is just taking control instead of like you just having fun and enjoying what you're doing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So, yeah, I done had no moments in the gym for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just like a composure thing.
		All of a sudden, you're now not thinking as much.
		You're just trying to beat it.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		You can get the emotions out of the situation and just be you.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Be present.
		That's really my main thing.
		I want to be present in what I'm doing and not moving off of feelings.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That probably fucks up a lot of fighters, don't it?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because so many, especially men, they're so wrapped up in their feelings and their emotions when they're fighting.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but fighters don't study they self.
		Like, I study myself.
		Like, I gotta check in with myself and see, like, what am I doing wrong and what am I doing right?
		And I correct it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You think that's rare?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's a rare attribute.
		Um, because fighters depend on their coaches, they depend on their coaches to do everything.
		And I do, I depend on my grandfather when I need him, but I know that I'm the fighter that's in there.
		So I'm not trying to just depend on them.
		I want to depend on myself also.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, like, do you try to get the other guys in the gym to follow your footsteps and watch footage?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You tell them, like, help them out with that?
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, the younger guys that I just mentioned, my little cousin and my little brother down there, Manny, I try to tell them to tune in with themselves and do the same similar things.
		Watch yourself, see what you're doing wrong, and try to correct it.
		But they're younger, so as time goes on, they will like pick up on it.
		But I can't rush how I feel and my beliefs on them right now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the best thing you could do is lead by example.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Always.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's my main thing.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you do all the hard work and you put it in there, they'll see your success.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When they have harder moments, they'll go, okay, what do I need to adjust?
unidentified		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Let me follow Shakira.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me see what the champ is doing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the goal.
		That's my main goal.
		Because, like I said, I ain't going to be boxing forever.
		So once I'm done, I'm going to sit back and I'm going to help them out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you plan on coaching when you're done?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I probably don't coach.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just help out in the gym?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Just call me a secret weapon.
		Call me a secret weapon.
		I'll be that guy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you already think about what you're going to do when you retire?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because boxing is a sport where when you retire, you still have so much life ahead of you.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Man, that's the truth.
		I've been trying to like figure it out because I know it's going to be within boxing.
		But whatever I do, I'm going to do to the best of my ability.
		I'm going to want to make tons of money for what I'm doing.
		And if I'm a secret weapon, shit, I might make money just being a secret weapon.
		So we'll see.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just someone bringing into camp.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'm the right guy for it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I got all the IQ.
		I watch too much boxing.
		Like, my life is like literally sit down and watch TV, watch iPad, watch.
		I just live boxing.
		So I think that'll be kind of easy.
		But I just see myself like taking over the world.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		In what way?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Like, I can't tell you.
		Like, I don't know.
		Like, my brain kind of like different.
		Like, I don't feel like I know for a fact I'm not going to be boxing for long.
		Like, I don't plan on getting in the ring, doing the wrist, and doing all that forever.
		So when I take over the world, it's going to be more so like me just locking in and using the same focus that I got for boxing into whatever else that I'm doing and take over.
		Like, whatever I do, I want to be the best.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you don't even have a thought of what it's going to be.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You'll figure that out when you get out of boxing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I journal a lot, so I'll be writing things for real.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So I can't tell you exactly what it's going to be, but I do know that I'm going to be somewhere making millions in a different atmosphere.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a great attitude to have.
		I'm glad you say you journal because this is one of the things that I wanted to bring up.
		I wish more boxers were interested in writing books because I think there's some of the things that you're talking about today and some of the things you're talking about in terms of like watching yourself, analyzing yourself, things you've learned, that would be very, very valuable if it's written down.
		But boxing knowledge is all word of mouth in the gym.
		It's all people who know things tell other people and they learn things and you got to go to these gyms and talk to these people or you get boxing knowledge from the commentators like Andre Ward will spit it out or Roy Jones will spit it out.
		Like that is where boxing knowledge gets sort of recorded.
		But I think it would be great if boxers could sit down and write just on boxing.
		Because you think about like what a huge sport boxing is.
		Huge sport.
		Like one of the pinnacles of sports, of combat sports.
		But yet there's not a lot of books written about technique and style and how they learn things and what they learned and why and what changed.
		And I learned that in this fight, in this fight, this changed.
		And I adjusted this about my training sessions.
		And I heard Emmanuel Stewart talk about overtraining.
		And so I realized maybe I was doing that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It is one book.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Andre Wood book.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		People got to read it, but I'm not fully done with it either.
		But as I read through some of it, he's giving out some free game.
		Like, it's free game in there that people could go listen to and read it and check it out because it's definitely like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did he read it for the audiobook?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
		I'm not sure.
		I know I got the actual book, so I just read it.
		But I didn't finish it.
		I won't say that I finished it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But he talks all about those things.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's a lot of things in there that's like free game.
		Like, okay, ooh, I like that.
		Like, I'm like, take that.
		Like, if you're a trainer, even if you're a training a fighter, like you're a training a fighter, it's something that I saw that he said that I'm like, okay, I'm gonna take that if I'm a training fighters.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Narrated by Andre Ward, perfect.
		Killing the image, a champion's journey, fighting and forgiveness.
		He's the perfect guy to do that, too.
		Because, like I said, he's the guy that did it right.
		You know, he went out on top.
		What's that?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He helped you understand.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Well, we need more books like that.
		I'll read that book.
		I haven't read it, but I'll read it.
		Because I think it's just, there's so much knowledge out there in certain camps.
		And it would benefit the entire sport if someone would document some of that stuff.
		Because some of that stuff is only told to the fighters that this guy's training and only told to the other fighters this guy trains with.
		And it's not out there and it could get lost.
		You know, like I'm sure there's some shit that Floyd knows that only people around him know that have been told that will be lost.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I'm saying?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's something he told me before this last fight that I took in and I'm like, ooh.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		What is that?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'm using that.
Floyd's Unmatched Resilience 00:05:30
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's simple, though.
		It's very simple.
		I don't, like I said, it's hard for me to keep giving out the.
		Maybe when I retire, I'll.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, come on, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What did he say?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		No, he just told me stretching.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Stretching?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Stretching.
		How powerful stretching is.
		And I just gave up.
		It's simple, though.
		Like, people know it, but do people do it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dude, people don't even do it in MMA.
		You know how crazy that is?
		Where you have to kick and people don't stretch?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, I was having a conversation with this dude who was a world champion, and I was explaining to him a jiu-jitsu position.
		I was like, this is why it's effective.
		He's like, oh, I can't get my legs up that high.
		I go, what are you talking about?
unidentified		You can.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You just have to stretch.
		Because I don't really stretch.
		I go, that's crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Every, no, there's a lot of fighters in sports that's like, I don't see it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't see it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, Floyd has always been a guy who did everything right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you want to emulate a guy's career, Floyd has been hit hard maybe three times in his whole career.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's the truth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		100%.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Every time I watch him, he's a wizard.
		I've barely seen anybody that good.
		Like, for me personally, barely, like, it's only a handful of people that I could say, like, okay.
		They're that good.
		Like, his brain just working at a different level than a lot of people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Also, just insanely disciplined, always in shape, always took care of himself, would go out to a club, drink water, and then run home in jeans.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		In jeans.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's tough.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I heard he had on like boots.
unidentified		Boots.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I never heard of that like that before.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I can imagine.
		I mean, but that's the results, right?
		You get a guy who's just head and shoulders above everybody he fights.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And just a master of pinpoint precision and movement and knowing where you are and hard to hit, but stood right in front of you.
		That's the crazy thing about Floyd.
		There's a lot of guys that were hard to hit, but they were like fleet of foot and moving around, footwork and Lomachenko style, you know?
		Not Floyd.
		Right in front of you.
		Right in front of you.
		You can't hit him.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Kind of similar.
unidentified		Crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Kind of similar to me.
unidentified		Yes.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But no, I think he's definitely a Chico.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		His mental was just too far ahead of everybody else's.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's the main thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the one fight between like guys who retired and came back that I'm still interested in seeing is him and Manny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I know they're going to do that on Netflix.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Floyd.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think that's still a high-level fight, though.
		That's what I love about it.
		Because I think Manny is still a high-level fighter.
		And Floyd, even in these exhibitions that he's been doing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He's looking good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He looks great, man.
		He looks great in sparring.
		You see him in sparring.
		Like, good Lord, man.
		It doesn't look like he's lost a step.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, honestly, I don't see Manny being able to beat Floyd Mayweather.
		Like, I don't see it.
		I think Manny looked solid his last fight with Barrios, but I just don't see Floyd losing.
		Like, I think it's some guys that he could come back today in the spoiler box in that fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, guys, even though he's 46.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think he would.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He would light Barrios up.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, there's levels.
		I mean, no matter what he's lost being 46, they haven't gained that yet.
		I mean, they were never there in the first place.
		So if he was here and he's lost this much, they're still here.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Even though he's not Floyd that fought Canelo or Floyd that fought Ricky Hatton, it's not the same Floyd.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's not that much different.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's still so far ahead.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because he's not drinking.
		He's not fucking his body up.
		He's not doing anything stupid.
		He stays in shape.
		He eats right.
unidentified		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate Floyd, too, because that's one of the guys that I never did no business with ever.
		And he still kind of helped me.
		So I appreciate him, man.
		I think he's a real dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		he got my love and respect well i always say that if you wanted to have a style that you emulate where you want to have a great career look at that guy like really very few times in his career ever got hurt yeah very very few You could count him on one hand yep, you know.
		And where he was in any kind of trouble at all yeah, that's my goal.
		And then when, in rematches, oh my god, in rematches he's always just like so, like my Donna, like my Donna, the first fight was rough fight, yeah.
		Second fight, he looked like a master.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'm not gonna lie, though.
		He's one of the guys that makes me want to like feel the experience of like getting hurt because like, when he fought Shane Mosley, that moment of like he lost his whole balance, everything almost went to his feet, but he stayed up yep, and then he fought back harder, like I feel like that was like a amazing moment of his career and like, for me,
		I want to have the experience like of that moment like I have never got hit, like cracked like that yet in a pro.
		So I I actually want to experience.
Rory's Heavyweight Dream 00:10:02
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You really want that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah really, because I want to show like that you could do it.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like you got to see like I got more in me to just than just being like a good boxer, like i'm a good boxer but i'm tough too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The Mosley fight was probably the fight where he got hurt the most yeah yeah, and the most dangerous, because it was like I think it was kind of in the middle of the round right yeah yeah, I want to feel that experience wow, and that was prime.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I told Andre Ward that he told me he's like man, why the why?
		Why would you want to?
		Why would you want to?
		But i'm like I don't understand why, but I definitely do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think out there could do that?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't think nobody.
		I don't think they're like mentally on the level of team.
		I think i'm just too far ahead that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But that's the problem with being too far Far ahead is that it's got to be hard for you to get fights.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What are they talking about right now?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there anybody that they're talking about right now for you?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't really heard nothing from a business standpoint since my last fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The problem is the last fight was too good.
		You know, like you would have probably got some offers before that fight, but after that fight, everybody's like, hold on.
		I don't know if I want that to happen to me.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have no clue who I'll be fighting next.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Who do you have your sights on?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, who do you, like, if you could make the decision, who do you think is interesting right now?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		If I can make a decision, interest would interest me, maybe, and this is crazy to say.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I may go back to 35 and get that ring belt.
unidentified		Really?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I may.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		We'll see, though.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I can't promise that I will, but I may.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What makes that more interesting to you?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I like the ring belt.
		Like, I like the ring magazine, but I don't know what it is about it.
		I always expect it.
		But for me to have a ring belt at 130, and then I had, I got a ring belt right now at 140, but I never had a ring belt at 35.
		And it's like, should I just go get that ring belt just to have it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So it's the belt, not even the opponent.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I know the opponent that I would have to fight to get it.
		I'm hearing this Raymond Morataya.
		He's a good fighter.
		He just beat Andy Cruz.
		So nah, this ain't the opponent.
		It's more so just to have the ring belt.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
		Like, you're at a position where you're not even thinking about opponents.
		You're thinking about belts you'd like to acquire.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty cool, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's a beautiful place to be in.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's beautiful.
		But what about opponents?
		Is there any opponents?
		Like, if you had, like, if no one could say no, and you were like, I'm going to orchestrate my career, who would you like to fight?
		If it was no opponents, I mean, and I was orchestrating, I'd probably because the fight that I would think that would generate the most amount of interest at 135 would be Tank.
		Now, I know Tank's got some legal issues now, and I don't know what his status is currently, but when it terms of big names, Tank is the big name at 35.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would love for it to happen, but the way that he went on like social media and kind of like bashed me in a way to where it was like he made it seem like I need him.
		And I just feel disrespected about it because at the end of the day, I'm a grown man.
		I make my own money.
		I'm living a spectacular life.
		I don't need nobody.
		So if he feels as though I need him and if it's that kind of stuff, then it's like, whatever.
		I'm not in need of that fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The thing is, is like Tank had gotten a bunch of those high-profile fights.
		He KO'd Ryan.
		He's had some big, high-profile fights.
		He looked great.
		And so for him to say that, he's probably, you know, he's talking shit, obviously.
		But he's like looking at you as like you haven't had before the Lopez fight, you haven't had that big breakout fight, but now you have.
		Now you have, and it was more spectacular than you could.
		I mean, if you wanted to write out a perfect result on paper against a world champion like Tia Fimo, that would be the fight you would say.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So that's, I mean, if I had to think of like a big fight for you, if I was the guy with the magic wand, that would be the fight that I would set up.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I would love to fight.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I would love for that fight to happen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ooh, that would be a big fight.
		Especially after you just beat Lopez.
		That'd be a big fight.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I would love for the fight to happen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That might be the only big fight that I could think of, other than you going up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But 47's, like you said, that's a big jump, man.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm not, I'll make it, though.
		I'll make it soon.
		Soon, I mean, later than sooner.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you think if you did that, you would want to prepare and put mass on, or would you just stay at the weight you are and just get accustomed to fighting bigger guys?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		If I was to go to 47, I would want to prepare.
		Like, I would want to do it slowly.
		I wouldn't want to just jump to 147 and you would want to put on weight, you think?
		Yeah, some type of weight, yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Because I'm little, like, I can't just jump the ring at the size that I am at 147 pounds when I know guys is going to be a lot bigger.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Especially when you're talking about Ryan being 170 when he gets in the ring.
		He might even be bigger than that.
unidentified		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was big and ripped in his last fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He looked fucking great.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, but it's like that's one of those things, too, is if you do go up, going down gets real hard going back.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, if you go up.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I always say that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand the reason with that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because your body gets accustomed to being bigger.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		For real.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		And then, so if you put on mass, right?
		So if you put on muscle and you go up to like 147, and so you're walking around at 155, 160, something like that, you drop down to 47, you've got more shoulder muscle, chest muscle, back muscle, leg muscle.
		If you stay at that weight and then you got to cut down to 35, you're going to feel like shit.
		And the example that I always use is Roy.
		So when Roy Jones went up and fought John Ruiz, won the heavyweight title, then he went back down to light heavyweight, he never looked the same.
		Because he was 200 pounds solid at a heavyweight.
		Ripped, like muscular, 200 pounds.
		For him to lose 25 pounds of weight and go back down to light heavyweight, that is fucking hard.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I get that.
		I get that.
		I feel like when Rory did that, Rory was like, I think he must have been trying to set up a big heavyweight fight, maybe?
		Or was he just trying to just win a title?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think he was just trying to be like the only guy to go from middleweight to win the heavyweight title, which he did.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't understand why he did that because you're right.
		When he fought Tarver, it was like, I don't know what was happening.
		I didn't really think Tarver was as good as Rory, but Tarver beat Rory.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Tarva's a bad motherfucker, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Tarver's a very good fighter.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Did he beat Roy?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think Tarver in that fight, first of all, they had fought before, right?
		They had had a real close decision loss.
		Tarver lost.
		And then Tarver got in his head at the beginning of the fight.
		He said, you got any excuses tonight, Roy?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That was crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, to hear that, like, right when you're about to fight.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Any questions for the champion?
		Any questions for the champion?
		Got any excuses tonight, Roy?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, my God.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Man, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was one of the wildest things anybody's ever said.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That would have turned me up, though.
		Like, if he would have said that to me, like, I'm trying to picture somebody saying that to me right before we fight.
		Now I'm going to want, I already want to beat you back.
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Now I'm going to want to beat you even better.
		Like, then after the fight, I'm going to get on the mic.
		And what did you say?
		Did you say something?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But when he dropped Roy and knocked him out, I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe it.
		But I was worried about him because I know what that does to people when they drop weight.
		And dropping down from 200 pounds to 175 will really wear your body out.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so you think it was more so the weight than the skills of Tarva?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I would never say that because I think Tarva has elite skills.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Tarva's.
unidentified		Elite?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think he's elite.
		Oh, come on.
		I think Tarva's an elite fighter.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Elite?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't think he's elite?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		No.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he's in all due respect to Tarvara.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Great performances and not as good performances, but I think in the performance against Roy, he looked elite.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he looked good that night.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because he rose to the occasion.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I just don't know about elite.
unidentified		Elite level.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		For me personally, I'm not the biggest Tarver fan, so.
unidentified		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I defer to your championship knowledge.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But, I mean, in that fight, you can't say that he didn't look spectacular that night.
unidentified		No, he did.
unidentified		He did.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He did.
		He looked on point.
		He looked like he was the better fighter at that moment.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Awkward.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Southpaw.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		When I watched the first fight, I thought Rory was a way better fighter than him.
		I thought Roy just stood on the ropes for way too long.
		I don't know why he did that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Was the first fight before or after he fought Ruiz?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It was after.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Was it after?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The first fight they had to?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That probably wore his ass out, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I just think once you go all the way up like that, you should probably stay there.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I don't know how he went up.
Steroids and Boxing 00:15:33
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to, you know, it's hard for a guy in his 30s to put on that kind of muscle.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And generally you have some help.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So generally some Mexican supplements involved.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And so the problem is.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He took osterine.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Once you have taken that stuff and then you stop taking it because you want to go back to your normal weight, your whole endocrine system gets fucked up.
		This is the problem with juicers.
		Guys who take juice, the thing that happens.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Man, don't tell me this.
unidentified		Hold on.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not saying this about Roy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Okay, okay, okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fighters in general.
		We just talk in general.
		Fighters that gain weight and have lean muscle and put on that kind of mass.
		Generally, they're doing it with some kind of supplement.
		Some kind of either steroids or something that juices up your endocrine system, whether it is peptides.
		Yes.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Damn, I never heard of this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You didn't know?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Nah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Come on, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't, for real?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Nah, I didn't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, come on.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of fighters that took stuff.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know, no, I know that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I know that people is cheating.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, in the older days, before they were testing.
		Oh, come on, man.
		Like in the 90s, who knows how many guys were on steroids?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Damn, that take away the credit of them guys because I feel like when I watched them guys, they was the truth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They are the truth.
		But I don't think, I think, well, let me use what I know for an example.
		An MMA.
		MMA is a better example.
		Because in MMA, fucking for sure, I could tell you 100% people were juicing.
		100%.
		Because I knew guys who were juicing.
		They would tell me what they were on, and everybody was juicing.
		So then they started implementing, so then the UFC starts getting sanctioned by athletic commissions and they test day of the fight.
		The day of the fight test is an intelligence test.
		It's not a steroids test.
		It's like, were you intelligent enough to cycle off right before the fight with the right kind of steroids so that on the way in day when you get tested, you don't test positive?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's all it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of these camps, like big MMA camps, they have scientists working in the camps making.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's helping them cheat.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Now, not so much anymore.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		This is scary.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because then the UFC, it is scary.
		But the thing is, everybody was doing it.
		And then on top of that, you had an organization like Pride.
		And I don't know if you're aware of Pride, but Pride was the big organization in Japan.
		I mean, they were selling out 90,000-seat arenas in Japan for these promotions.
		They were fucking huge.
		And everyone was juiced to the tips.
		I don't know if everybody was, but a lot.
		I don't think Rampage was.
		Rampage told me he never took steroids.
		And I believe him.
		But a lot of guys were juiced up.
		And I know for a fact they were juiced up because they told me.
		They told me.
		And they also told me, like, Ensign Inyway, who fought for Pride, told me that on his contract.
		Yeah, Ensign Inoue.
		Yeah, like not the same last name.
		Ensign, he was a great fighter, a pioneer at MMA.
		Ensign told me that on his Pride contract, it said in all capital letters, we do not test for steroids.
		I had a friend of fought in Japan, they encouraged him to take steroids.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		See, this scared me because I got to get in the boxing ring and I know that people be cheating.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Some people cheat.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I know.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's be like low-level fighters that you'll go there and you'll be like, why do this guy punch way harder than a lot of people?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand it.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And it's like, I don't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a few fighters in MMA that when steroids started being tested for, their body shrunk and then their power went away.
		Like there were guys that were knocking everybody out and then all of a sudden they couldn't knock anybody out.
		It's crazy.
		I mean, there's so many stories in MMA where you see fighters' physiques just deflate.
		Like they're a balloon.
		They got air let out of them.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like I seen it in boxing, though.
		I see guys, they kind of like get caught with steroids.
		And then they have a fight after that and it's like...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They look like shit.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Where did the power go?
		Exactly.
		All of their power?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a fact.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a fact.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I get it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That does happen.
		And then there's also ways that we can't figure out what they're doing yet.
		I mean, this has happened all throughout sports, right?
		This was the whole thing with Barry Bonds and the Balko scandal in baseball.
		They had developed a steroid called the Clear.
		And what the Clear was was a steroid that was undetectable.
		They hadn't figured it out, but eventually they got caught.
		And so who knows what kind of shit it's not like they stopped trying to innovate and come up with ways to get an advantage.
		There's definitely people doing it now.
		But the way the UFC works now, first they brought in USADA.
		Now they have a company called Drug Free Sport that does the same thing.
		And they just show up and test you.
		You don't get a notification it's going to happen next Tuesday.
		So you can take a bunch of shit that clears it out of your system.
		So they just show up, knock on your door.
		Hey, it's time for a test.
		And then you do.
		That's how they should do it.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Vada do the same thing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		They just show up and you are ring blood.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Just anytime.
		Actually, my last camp, they tested me like four or five times.
		God damn.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the only way to know.
		You got to show up randomly and test guys.
		That's the only way to go.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I'm cool with it, though, because I ain't never ever really did anything when it comes to cheating.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But if you go, and this is, again, not casting any disparaging remarks about Roy, who's one of the greatest of all time.
		But if you went back to the Ruiz fight, do you think they were testing him?
		I fucking doubt it.
		I fucking doubt it.
		There was no VADA testing back then.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Then USATA was in boxing?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I don't think so.
		No, no.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I could have sworn they was in boxing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's find out.
		Was the Roy Jones, John Ruiz Jr. fight, did they utilize VADA testing?
		I don't think they did.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		USATA.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		USATA?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		USATA.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay, USADA.
		I don't think they did.
		I don't think, I don't think they, look, that was always a thing about Manny.
		Like, people always said that about Manny.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I heard that too.
unidentified		right?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Only reason why it was believable though, because I never...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You went up eight weight classes.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I've never seen that in my life.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And kept the knockout power.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I've never seen that in my life.
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I never in the history of the sport, you go from one, what, 109 or whatever he started at.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		To 154 and you're just knocking guys out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And his physique.
		I mean, he looks fantastic at every step of the way.
		And he also had that dude, what'd it say, was not held under a modern UFC-style USATA program.
		There's no record of being part of any independent year-round USATA VADA scheme like we see today.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So they just depended on the athletic commission.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but again, the athletic commission.
		That's an intelligence test.
		I mean, I will show you, show him Aleister Overeem when he fought Brock Lesnar at the weigh-in.
		Now, Aleister Overeem is the greatest example in MMA of a guy who, when he was on the juice, he was unstoppable.
		Unstoppable.
		They called him Uberim when he was unstoppable because he looked like a comic book superhero.
		He was so jacked.
		And then when they started doing USADA testing, he looked completely different.
		I mean, completely different.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He got softer.
		He still looked good, but he didn't look like Uberim.
		There's an image of him flexing on the scale.
		Like, look at him right there.
		Come on, son.
		I mean, come on.
unidentified		Look at that girl.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at Ariani's face when she's looking at his back.
		She's like, what the fuck?
		And that was, I mean, come on, man.
		He was a fucking monster.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He was knocking guys out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was destroying everybody.
		He was destroying everybody when he was juiced up.
		And he started his career as a light heavyweight.
		So he started his career as a 205-pound guy who was thin and skinny.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's light heavyweight?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's light heavyweight.
		The UFC's weight classes are all fucked up.
		I know it's stupid.
		They have the same names, but different weight classes.
		So, like, Welter Waite is 170 in the UFC.
		Yeah, look at him.
		So, that's the difference between how he was when he was juicing versus how he was.
		You see the difference?
		It's crazy, right?
		Isn't it crazy?
		It's crazy.
unidentified		Damn.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, the guy on the right was just, he had to move more.
		He was still very skillful.
		He was a very skillful kickboxer, very skillful MMA fighter.
		But, I mean, when that guy was fully jacked up and juiced, man, he was almost unstoppable.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		See, that's why, man, that's why I be, I don't like that.
		Like, that's my thing.
		I do not want to get in the ring with somebody that's cheating.
		Like, I feel like that's, but I'm so good to it.
		Like, even if you are cheating, you ain't going to hit me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You won't be much of a double-imagine if you're fighting a guy that's at your level, but he's cheating.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the problem.
		That's the problem.
		Right now, there's not really anybody in your division that's at that level that's like really compelling.
		I mean, other than at 135 tank.
		But imagine if there's someone that's at your level and you're pretty sure they're cheating.
		That's got to fuck with your head.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Honestly, I feel like it's some competitive guys at these weight classes.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		They just not know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But it's some names that's like, okay, like even Lamont Roach.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Lamont Roach is very good.
		That fight with Gervante was crazy because that was a knockdown.
		That's a fucking knockdown.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He won.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He won for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The fact that he took a knee and the referee didn't call it a knockdown, that's crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he won.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But to say, like, I'm just saying it is guys out there for me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Lamont is a great example.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		There'd be big fights and competitive fights.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And I done sparred Lamont, so I know Lamont is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's legit.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, a lot of people did not know about him before that fight, but after that fight, I mean, look, that sucks, man, because that goes down on his record as a loss.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's was it a draw?
unidentified		Draw.
		Draw.
		That's right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was a draw.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he won the fight?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He clearly won.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He won the fight?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I thought he won the fight anyway.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I did too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But the knockdown, like, you can't say I got shit in my hair and it got in my eyes and that's why I went down.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That was very amateurish.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was weird, right?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It was very amateurish.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I didn't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was weird.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I never saw nothing like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's like Gervante just looked like his head wasn't totally there in that fight.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So do you require VATA testing for all your fights?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And do you have that ability to do that?
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So in negotiations, you make sure that everybody's getting tested.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		When it comes down to that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Good for you.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I do not play that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, good for you, man.
		Good for you.
		I mean, we're very fortunate that we have these testing bodies like that now available.
		Because again, like, if they had, who knows what a lot of fighters' legacies would be if they were testing them at every step along the way.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they'd get caught.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They get caught.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So with MMA, it was the wild west for a long time.
		For a long time.
		It was the wild, wild west.
		Everybody was doing all kinds of shit.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't be able to do that.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, I would not be able to get in the ring, lose to somebody, and then know they cheated me.
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Because I don't know how I would react to that.
		Like, that would be like one of the moments I may crash out and I don't do crash out things.
		So I might crash out about like ain't no way you just cheated me, bro.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Ain't no way you just cheated me, bro.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing is that with combat sports versus every other sport is your goal is to hurt your opponent.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And if there's a thing you're doing that's cheating that helps you hurt your opponent, that is a different kind of cheating.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's not like cheating in baseball.
		Like, who gives a fuck if you hit another home run?
		I think they should all cheat in baseball.
		I think they should all get on steroids.
		Make it more exciting.
		Like, because the only thing that's exciting about baseball is home runs.
unidentified		Right?
unidentified		Yeah, I get it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the number one thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you got a way that you guys can hit more home runs, fucking give it to them.
unidentified		Stupid.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's like harmless.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, it's not really going to hurt anybody.
unidentified		Exactly.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I get it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But in boxing, it's like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's life or death.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Boxing is real life or death.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's why I don't know how I would react.
		Don't anybody watching this, please don't cheat me.
		I am not the guy to be cheated.
		So just understand that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, whenever people are looking for shortcuts and people want to win, there's always going to be someone that's willing to do something that they're not supposed to be doing.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That ain't it, though.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Like, this, like you said, is life or death.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Life or death.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So you could cheat and hit somebody with the wrong shot, and then they did.
		What's the guy that killed somebody?
		Sabril Matias.
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He killed the dude.
		And now he just got popped for cheating.
		So it's like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he did?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What did he get popped for?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't even know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He lost recently, right?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He lost right before the loss.
		They had popped him for cheating.
		I want to say Dalton Smith.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So he lost.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So he got popped and then he lost the next fight?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they let him fight.
unidentified		Wow.
unidentified		Yep.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But it's like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if he's the same guy after he got popped.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was saying.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't know either, but.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because he was killing everybody.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he actually only killed one guy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but he actually killed somebody.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But if I'm the family of somebody that he killed and now he comes out as cheating, I will be like, hold up now, bro.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Can you see what Matias got popped for?
		That's crazy.
		He was.
		Who's the dude who just beat him?
		Dude, just stop.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Dalton Smith.
unidentified		Yes.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was a crazy fight.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That was crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		They would go to war.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ooh, they went to war.
		I mean, that was not an easy fight for him.
		And Matias is a dangerous dude, man.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was a great performance by Dalton Smith, though.
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		People don't know back in the day when I was in the junior worlds, me and him went to the worlds together.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, osterine.
unidentified		Damn.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Everybody's on osterine.
		What is it about?
		I don't even know much about osterine.
		What does osterine do, Jamie?
		Let's find out what it does.
		Osterine, selective androgen receptor modulator designed to treat muscle wasting conditions and osteoporosis by promoting muscle growth and bone density without the severe side effects of anabolic steroids.
		Popular amongst bodybuilders for enhancing muscle mass and fat loss.
		It's not approved for human consumption by the FDA, banned by WADA, and linked to side effects like liver toxicity, testosterone suppression, and cardiovascular risks.
		So it helps you keep muscle and bone density.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it makes it sense.
		It makes sense that that would be a good supplement for boxers.
		What are you showing me here?
Benavidez's Wild Punching Power 00:05:54
unidentified		People look like I'm talking about it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Before or after.
		Look at that guy.
		The one you got your link on.
		Jesus.
		Well, he looks like he's faking it in the third picture.
		But, I mean, you're always going to have certain people that are going to cheat.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I hate it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Are there any like world title fights that take place that don't have VADA testing?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it is.
		I think people fight without it, but I don't.
		I don't play that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't play that.
		I be thinking, man, I'd have sparred the dude in the gym that was not good one time.
		Like, he's not good at all.
		But I'm sparring him.
		I'm like, man, this dude punched harder than everybody I've ever been in the ring with.
		And I wonder, like, dude, did that dude, do he be cheating?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, some dudes just have natural God-given power, too.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		When you like fat, not kind of like you out of shape, then you just punch super hard and it's slow, but it's like boom, boom.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I be thinking people be cheating.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They might be, but they might just have the gift.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The thing about boxing is punching power, you can enhance your punching power, but that crazy punching power, that's a gift with it.
		Yeah, you're born with it.
		Like Ernie Shavers type punching power or Deontay.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Wilder.
unidentified		Wilder.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The greatest example ever.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		One shot with Teddy Atlas is the best example.
		He called it the eraser.
		All the mistakes you made, it doesn't matter.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because I sit there and watch Wilder, and I'm like, dog, it's some fights that I see him not punch at all until the shot is there.
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And when the shot is there, he got you.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's over.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It's already hit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he might be the greatest one-punch knockout artist in the history of the heavyweight.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think he is.
		I think it's like no question.
		Like, he is probably the hardest puncher that ever walks.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's up there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Ernie Shavers back in the day.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Punch harder than Wilder.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow, they all said Ernie Shavers was the like even Ali said nobody hit harder than Ernie Shavers.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Wilder.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know, I know.
		And you think about Wilder, too, is he's not big.
		He only weighed 209 when he fought Tyson Fury the first time.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That right hand he got crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't think nobody could take it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I don't think nobody could take it.
		I'm not gonna lie.
		I saw Fairy take it, but you know what he's like?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's like giant Tommy Hearns.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what it's like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Long leverage, just torque, the width of the shoulders, the snap of the punch, just blap.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I wish he retired, though.
		Like, I feel like he.
		What else is there to do?
		Like, you done did a lot in this sport.
		You done made a lot of money.
		I just wish certain guys just like, okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		I know.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		What am I doing this for now?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's going to fight Derek Chisora, which is interesting because they're both the same age.
		They both have 50 fights.
		They're both kind of in the same, but you know.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I like Derek Chazora.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He's a cool dude, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He seems cool.
		Yeah.
		I mean, it's a great time for boxing.
		There's a lot of talent.
		A lot of very, very compelling matchups.
		Are they going to do a Bival Better B of rematch?
		Are they going to do a trilogy?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I want to see Bival versus Benavidez.
		That's the fight.
		Like, I don't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the fight was Benavidez versus Canelo.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That never could get made for some reason.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That dude is just too big for Canelo, though.
		I see both sides.
		Like, I love Benavidez and I'm a fan of him.
		So I see the side of like, like, fight me, bro.
		You the guy.
		I'm the guy.
		We number one, number one.
		Let's fight.
		But then I see Canelo's side.
		He's like, man, this dude is 200 pounds on the regular.
unidentified		Right.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And I'm nowhere near that weight.
		So it's like, why would I fight this guy?
		Like, I don't think it's fair.
		Like, that's how he's feeling.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But Canelo went up and fought Bival.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		But he knew he didn't, he didn't.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He didn't think Buval was going to be him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't think so?
unidentified		Nah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Well, he didn't think, he thought he was going to beat Buval.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		After Bival beat him, you think that killed the chances?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but he knew it's time.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I cannot fight these guys that's super big.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I love watching Benavidez fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's a motherfucker.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He's a killer.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He is a fucking kid.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He did something to help my hands.
		He told me to put on the gloves that I'll be wearing on fight night.
		And they helped my hands.
		So I appreciate him too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you do anything to strengthen your hands?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you do exercises?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a.
		I can't tell everybody.
		I can't tell everybody.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Tell me later.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'll tell you later.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a bunch of different things people do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like buckets of rice is a big one.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I do that too.
		Yeah.
		Moving your hands around in buckets.
unidentified		What is it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Benavidez targets to beat you, Bival.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there we go.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's the fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the fight.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		That's the best versus the best.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think that's one of the best fights to make in the sport of boxing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's fighting Ramirez at cruiserweight, right?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then he's going to drop back down to light heavyweight and fight Bival.
		I like that.
		Yeah.
		I want to make the biggest and the best fights happening.
		Fuck yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's one of the best fights in the sport.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Arthur Better B.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But Better B is like 40 now.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He's the truth, though, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's the truth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was a crusher forever.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He punched too hard.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He had another one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He bangs dudes out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's got a crazy style.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's funny when people sparred him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They have these stories.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like he hits you and you're like, what just happened?
unidentified		Yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I could see it, though.
		When I watched him fight Bavar, I'm front row.
		And like Bavar liked to catch shots on his glove and like I could see like how hard he was punching his glove.
		Like, damn.
		I don't know how Bavar is taking that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know, and he was 39 back then.
unidentified		Yeah.
Russian Doping Scandal 00:06:03
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like we missed his prime.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		We've seen one fight where he fought the overseas guy, Gavard something, and he beat him up.
		Oh, man.
		God, he beat him up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was at one point in time, wasn't he like 39 and oh, with 39 knockouts, which is just nuts.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		At that level, that is just nuts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just nuts that he stopped everybody.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And it looks natural, too.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It don't look like he's like stealing crazy.
unidentified		No, it's not.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It looks very natural.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But didn't he get in trouble caught with something?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He got caught with something?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, put that better B. Not Better BF.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I feel like I might be wrong, but I feel like maybe there was a tainted supplement.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Man, come on.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Not Better B.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I might be wrong.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you got to be wrong.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If I'm wrong, I apologize.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		You got to be wrong for Better BF.
unidentified		This was 2024, or is that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Atypical.
		Yeah, this is what it was.
		Atypical drug test result.
		Adverse findings may have threatened.
		Now, what does that mean?
		What does it say?
		Look at Conor McGregor.
		Look at Conor McGregor screaming and yelling.
		What does it say?
		What did he get caught with?
		Atypical finding is not a violation.
		It requires more testing.
		BetterB underwent those examinations at VADA request.
		VADA reported negative results from the follow-up test.
		So what was the positive test?
unidentified		Hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What does that mean?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what do that mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, here it goes.
		He received atypical findings for human growth hormone and 5D androstanodiol.
		Both occur naturally in the body.
		When an atypical finding is received, further testing is required to determine if an athlete naturally produces the substance in his body his or her body at a greater level than the average or elevated levels, which were signs of anti-doping.
		Interesting.
		Okay, so it could just be that he just has naturally high levels of HGH and this 5D androstanidiol.
		So that might be what it is.
		Or could be some sneaky shit.
		You know, I mean, did you ever see the documentary Icarus?
		This is a great documentary about the drug scandal in the Olympics in Russia.
		And so this was, what was this, 2016?
		Which was it, Jamie?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Was that the Olympics I was at?
		Yeah.
		I was there.
		And they banned the whole Russian team.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I thought that was 2020, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They banned the Russian team in the follow-up Olympics, I believe.
		Because of the 2016.
		So this guy, Brian Fogel, did this documentary.
		It's a crazy documentary.
		And the documentary was not supposed to be.
unidentified		2014 Winter Olympics.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		2014 Winter Olympics.
		So what happened was Brian Fogel was doing a documentary.
		So he's a cyclist and a documentary guy.
		And so he said, I want to do a cycling event, a race, completely natural.
		And then I want to do it on steroids.
		And I want to document it all.
		And then, you know, make this documentary on what is the difference and just show everyone.
		Because cycling is a very dirty sport.
		Like Tour de France, those guys, they put engines in their fucking bike to make it easier to pedal.
		They do a lot of crazy shit.
		Blood doping.
		So he does this naturally.
		And then he gets this guy.
		What was his name again?
unidentified		Richenko.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Gregory Richenko.
		Who was Richenkov?
		Who was the head of the Russian anti-doping federation?
		But it was really a doping federation.
		So what they were doing at the time was, so he starts working with this guy.
		This guy's telling him what steroids to take and how to get better.
		At the same time, the Russians get caught.
		Like while he's filming all this, and that guy has to leave the country.
		And that guy spills the beans and he tells them exactly what they did.
		And what they did was they took the clean urine, they made a hole in the wall.
		So the place where they stored all the urine, they made a hole in the wall where they could swap out the Russian urine and swap it in for good urine.
		And they found these microabrasions on these supposedly unopenable jars.
		And so when they looked at it with a microscope, they said they figured out a way to open these jars.
		So they would pass it through the hole in the wall, open the jar, empty it out, put in clean piss, and give it back to him.
		So essentially the entire team was doped up.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so basically that's why they say in the Olympics, they wasn't sure if Russia was going to be able to compete, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And so in Brazil, the follow-up Olympics, the next Olympics, the entire team couldn't compete.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		The cycling team.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, the entire Russian team.
		So the cycling thing was just this guy that was doing this documentary, and he was using the head of the Russian anti-doping agency to help him do it, like openly.
		So it was just for a documentary.
		It wasn't like trying to win a race and cheat.
		He was like saying, let's see what you would give me and how much better my performance would be.
		So in the middle of doing all this, this scandal gets exposed.
		And this guy who he's using is at the head of the scandal.
		And then this guy tells him everything.
		And it's nuts.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Russia did compete in the Olympics, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They did compete in 2016.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		They must have didn't compete in 2020 then.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was one of the, I think they allowed individual athletes to compete, whatever the subsequent Olympics was, but they didn't allow them to represent Russia.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yeah, because it was a guy from Russia in my weight class.
Scandal Unveiled 00:01:17
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		And on 2016 Olympics.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		He did it was kind of strong, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Russians, I mean, they were the beginning of all this stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like the Eastern European women, weightlifting.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		So they came up with the cheats.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, they figured it out.
		They figured it out early on.
		They've been doing it a long ass time.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So who knows with Better B or any of these guys.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You've got to always assume that without something like Vada or Drug-Free Sport or USADA, there's always going to be someone who's trying to figure out a way to get a competitive advantage.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hate it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's gross.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I hate it.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		It comes with it, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it comes with it.
		It is what it is.
		So anything else you want to cover before we wrap this up?
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Nah, I ain't got nothing else.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I think we're good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Listen, man, congratulations on everything.
		It's been beautiful to watch you fight.
		I'm a giant fan, and I'm happy to see after the Lopez fight, you get all the respect and the credit that you deserve.
		And I can't wait to see what happens next.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
shakur stevenson ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate you, and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to come on the podcast.
unidentified		I appreciate you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Thanks very much.
unidentified		My honor.
unidentified		All right.

Chapters

00:00:01 Standout Performance Against Tia Femo
00:14:28 Terrence's Unquestionable Greatness
00:29:27 Buster Douglas's Energy
00:36:05 Rehydration Clause Controversy
00:48:28 Pillow Hands Confusion
00:55:14 Why Lemachenko Stands Out
01:06:14 Clarissa's Dominance In Boxing
01:11:53 Watching The Champ
01:27:38 Floyd's Unmatched Resilience
01:33:08 Rory's Heavyweight Dream
01:43:10 Steroids and Boxing
01:58:44 Benavidez's Wild Punching Power
02:04:39 Russian Doping Scandal
02:10:42 Scandal Unveiled