All Episodes
Feb. 10, 2026 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:04:24
Joe Rogan Experience #2451 - Cheryl Hines

Cheryl Hines joins Joe Rogan to dissect modern political toxicity, from Bobby Kennedy Jr.’s media scrutiny to vaccine skepticism dismissed as taboo—despite cases like thalidomide proving past pharmaceutical failures. Rogan contrasts today’s personal attacks with Romney-Obama civility and questions systemic corruption, citing Nancy Pelosi’s $400M net worth on a $170K salary and the Sackler family’s opioid crisis ties. Epstein’s 2005 arrest and FBI claims of no trafficking ring spark skepticism about power networks shielding abuse, while Rogan mocks campaign theatrics like Clinton or Sheen running for president. They debate election integrity, from California’s voter ID gaps to Diebold machine controversies, and Twitter’s censorship exposure post-Musk. Hines’ Unscripted reveals Kennedy Jr.’s personal struggles amid political weaponization, ending with Rogan’s blunt take: media and factions obscure truth while exploiting fear and division. [Automatically generated summary]

Participants
Main
c
cheryl hines
56:04
j
joe rogan
01:57:19
Appearances
d
dwight d eisenhower
02:30
j
jamie vernon
02:05
Clips
e
eric garcetti
d 00:19
n
nancy pelosi
rep/d 00:21
|

Speaker Time Text
Bill Maher's Anger Spat 00:14:00
unidentified
Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!
cheryl hines
The Joe Rogan experience.
unidentified
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
joe rogan
Cheryl.
unidentified
Joe.
joe rogan
So good to see you.
cheryl hines
It's really good to see you.
joe rogan
What's happening?
cheryl hines
Everything.
joe rogan
Are you good?
You alright?
cheryl hines
Yeah, I am.
I'm good now.
joe rogan
Yeah.
unidentified
Woo.
cheryl hines
Woo.
It's been a, it's been a few years.
joe rogan
I thought about you the moment Bobby said he was going to run for president.
You were the first thing I thought about.
cheryl hines
Thank you.
joe rogan
Because I'm a huge fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm.
I thought you were amazing.
cheryl hines
Oh, thank you.
joe rogan
On that show.
cheryl hines
Thank you.
joe rogan
It's such a good show.
cheryl hines
Thank you.
joe rogan
It's maybe one of the greatest comedy shows of all time.
And I was like, she's not built for this.
cheryl hines
It turns out I'm not built for this.
joe rogan
Nobody is.
Trump is the only person I've ever met that somehow or another survives it and seems exactly the same.
But most people who are attacked like that, it's just like it is a natural human instinct when you are rejected by your tribe to feel terrified and filled with anxiety.
But that's why people do it.
And that's what encourages groupthink because you're terrified and you wind up agreeing to things that are fucking insane.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because you don't even know what you're agreeing to.
You just don't want to be rejected by your tribe.
And this is how they keep people involved in these where ideologies eventually become cults.
cheryl hines
Yes.
joe rogan
And I think you can make a really good argument at both the right and the left that in a certain section of each one of these political parties, it's a cult.
cheryl hines
Yes, because they're, you know, most of us are sort of in the center.
unidentified
Yes.
cheryl hines
Right.
And then you have the 10% on this side, the 10% on this side that are so extreme and loud, and they keep everybody fired up.
And it is cult-like.
joe rogan
Right.
Yeah, it's weird.
It's weird to watch intelligent people get captured in it.
I was just watching this video with Bill Maher and Bill Maher had Adam Carolla on.
And Bill Maher was talking about how Jimmy Kimmel won't talk to him anymore.
Like they have this spat because of politics.
Bill Maher is very much a left-wing person.
He has been his whole life.
He has not changed his opinions at all.
But he's always been very reasonable and willing to criticize the left as well as the right.
cheryl hines
Yes.
joe rogan
And I don't know if it was because he had dinner with Trump and he met with him, which is just crazy.
You're not supposed to talk to people that are the president of the United States.
cheryl hines
It is crazy.
I know I was just talking to Bill Maher and we were talking about this.
Oh, yeah, because he was like, you said exactly what you said.
I sat down and had dinner with the president and people went insane.
Yeah.
And so people, listen, I know that feeling because even when Bobby started running for president, even when he started running as a Democrat, people were angry.
Well, they're Democrats were angry.
joe rogan
They're just mean.
When it comes to politics, people just get so mean.
It's like these are not the type of people you ever want in any position of power.
People, the least charitable, most vicious people, the moment you are running against them in a political party, they will pull out all the stops, take things out of context, lie about you.
cheryl hines
Yes.
Even if you're in their party.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
joe rogan
100%.
cheryl hines
Which was, that was challenging because, you know, like Hollywood is competitive and it's hard and you are, you know, you're hustling, you're working really hard, but you're not trying to tear other people down.
joe rogan
Right.
cheryl hines
So politics, as soon as you say, as soon as he said, I'm, well, no, I'm sorry.
Before that, people were coming after him.
joe rogan
They were always coming after him.
cheryl hines
They were always coming after him.
But it kicked up a notch when he decided to run for president.
joe rogan
Oh, big notch, I'm sure.
Yeah.
cheryl hines
And it was just, and it's just weird, you know.
And there was like a feeling of doom for me.
Bobby's tough.
He's so friggin tough.
joe rogan
Well, they've been coming after him for like 20 years.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So he's just developed a rhino scandal.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
And I, you know, and I was, I was like, oh, my God.
I'm not going to make it.
joe rogan
You know, a good indication of how they come after themselves, each other rather, is during the debate with Kamala and Biden, when Kamala was accusing Biden of, at the very least, sexual assault, right?
Like this.
cheryl hines
It's sort of creepy.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It seemed like she was accusing him of sexual assault.
And then when they confronted her on it, she's like, it was a debate.
That's literally what she said.
cheryl hines
That is the really strange thing about politics that I'm still getting used to is they will viciously attack each other.
And then a minute later in the hallway, it's like, hey, how's it going?
And I'm still in shock, you know, I'm still angry about what just happened in there.
And they're already over it.
And they're already like, yeah, that's politics.
That's what we do.
joe rogan
Did you ever see the debates with Mitt Romney and Barack Obama?
cheryl hines
I'm sure I did, but it wasn't.
joe rogan
I see if you could pull some of that up.
God, why can't we go back to that?
cheryl hines
Or was it like civilized?
joe rogan
Oh, completely.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
For Mitt Romney, Mitt Romney's like, he's Mormon, like super religious guy, never swears, probably doesn't do anything, right?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
So he's like super polite.
cheryl hines
Yes.
joe rogan
And then Barack Obama, because, you know, they're matching each other's energy.
He was very polite too.
They disagreed on many things, but they were talking about what they wanted to do.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
Not how this guy's a piece of shit and they've been stealing and robbing and this and that.
cheryl hines
Or, you know, how they look like Trump.
joe rogan
Which is crazy when you look like that.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like the guy makes fun of his own hair.
Like he makes fun of his comb over.
It's like, here it is.
unidentified
Governor Romney and the University of Denver for your hospitality.
The only person this stage is a convicted felon who's new to.
joe rogan
Okay, this is just a comparison.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
That was the Biden ones with Trump were the worst because they were trying to map Trump's energy, match Trump's energy.
cheryl hines
Well, they didn't know how to debate him.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
That's what he does well.
joe rogan
If you wanted to diffuse that, which you would say is like, this is not productive for anybody.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
Like, if you want to have like a completely separate conversation about who's a bigger piece of shit and you want to do a podcast and you and me talk about how I think you're a piece of shit, you think I'm a piece of shit.
That's one thing.
But you have X amount of time to say how you're going to run the country.
unidentified
Country.
joe rogan
And what you think is wrong with the policies.
What you think is wrong with where we're spending money.
What you think was all the above.
cheryl hines
Yes.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That's what you're supposed to do.
cheryl hines
Yes.
joe rogan
And the idea that you can't win that way is crazy.
cheryl hines
It is crazy.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
cheryl hines
And it's really weird, too, that a lot, some, not all, politicians really work on, I got to get a catchphrase in there.
joe rogan
Well, Trump's really good at that.
Like he names people, Crooked Hillary, Sleepy Joe.
cheryl hines
It works.
It works.
It did work.
I mean, because people get so thrown off, they don't know how to respond.
Like you said, that's what they should say.
But they just get so thrown off that it's just paralyzing.
joe rogan
Well, at least in this day and age, there's a method through social media for you to respond if something you think is inaccurate or whatever, you respond.
But there was a time where there was nothing.
And whatever political party was in power, they controlled everything.
They controlled all the news stories about you.
They controlled everything.
There's a great story with Hunter S. Thompson and Ed Muskie's running for president.
And Hunter S. Thompson makes this crazy rumor about how he's addicted to Ibogaine.
And he has a Brazilian witch doctor who comes in and treats him.
And this guy literally cracks on the campaign trail because Hunter S. Thompson said this, made up this crazy story about him.
And this guy, you see him having nervous breakdowns on the campaign trail.
Like his subsequent speeches are all like nuts and he falls off.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
But he was like a frontrunner at one point in time.
Or at least he was very competitive and it just killed him.
cheryl hines
Well, it's the power of words.
joe rogan
Yes.
cheryl hines
Which, by the way, you know, when Bobby decided to run and he and I talk about this in my book, Unscripted, when he came on your podcast, it was a game changer, right?
Because everything that you're saying is true.
And the press was going hard.
They still do.
They were going hard at Bobby.
Like, he's this, he's that.
Here's what he thinks.
Here's what he represents.
And then he came on your podcast and you guys had a conversation.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
And, you know, you're curious and you're a great listener and you're not judgmental.
And people heard what Bobby had to say and it changed everything for him.
joe rogan
Well, I think it helped also that I knew who he was.
I read his book and I had also had negative opinions of him before I actually read what he said.
cheryl hines
Interesting.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
No, what were your opinions?
So before the pandemic, before the pandemic, I was firmly on the side of science.
I was much more of a left-wing leaning person.
I just assumed these people are running universities, these academics, whatever they said was accurate.
Everybody else was a fool and they believed in snake oil and witchcraft, right?
This is what I thought.
And then during the pandemic, I was like, okay, these experts are clearly lying.
I know they're lying because they're literally lying about me.
Right.
cheryl hines
Which was crazy.
So when you're in it and you know who you are and you know how you're feeling and what your body is doing and other people, news outlets are saying, uh-uh, that's not true.
It's got to feel so weird.
joe rogan
Well, it felt really weird because they weren't addressing the fact that I was healthy.
That was crazy.
So you're talking about this massive pandemic and you've got this guy in his 50s.
You know, I'm supposed to be a vulnerable person and I'm in my 50s and I got over it in a couple of days and I'm telling everybody how I did it.
And they're saying that I'm some quack who's taking veterinary medicine.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
Which is just a, it was just a flat out lie, but it was weird.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was weird to watch.
It didn't like, it didn't give me anxiety.
It made me laugh a lot.
I laughed a lot.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because fortunately, during this entire time period, I was doing stand-up and hanging out with comedians.
We all thought it was so funny.
Like, bro, CNN is so full of shit.
unidentified
This is crazy.
joe rogan
You never would have believed it.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
And you have this outlet and you were able to talk about it and tell people.
joe rogan
So it's like, they thought they were picking on me because they thought they were the bully.
But during the whole exchange, they went, oh my God, this thing's way bigger than we thought it was.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
So my show was like 10 times more listeners and viewers than their show, which is crazy.
Because all I can do is come on here and go, are you fucking out of your, do I need to sue you people?
You guys are cracked.
cheryl hines
It is crazy.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
cheryl hines
So, yeah, so you saw things firsthand that you hadn't experienced before.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And then when I read Bobby's book, one of the things that I knew about Bobby before Fauci book or The Real Anthony Fauci, which was just I would read it, I would listen to it on audio tape in the sauna.
So I'm sitting there cooking at 196 degrees.
Well, you're already kind of freaking out.
You can only stay in there so long before you die.
You know, that's the whole key of the sauna.
Like, you get it way before you're going to die.
That's when you get out.
But if you stayed in there for a few hours, you're a dead man.
And so I'm kind of freaking out already.
And I'm like, this is the nuttiest story of one guy and his cohorts who have been doing this kind of shit.
The same shit they were doing during the pandemic, suppressing other medication, promoting something that they had that they were going to make a massive profit off of, gaslighting people, lying about the data, lying about, this is the thing they did during the AIDS crisis.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
And they're footnote after footnote, reference after reference.
joe rogan
Exactly.
cheryl hines
Saying, this is, here's this, here's that.
I'm not making this.
joe rogan
No lawsuits.
No one's tried to sue him.
And this is one thing I keep bringing up.
If that was lies, people would have, they would document how it's not true.
They would show the actual paperwork.
They'd show the actual data.
This is how it's on.
No, it's all true.
You go, well, how do I not know this?
And what kind of irresponsible journalism do we have in this country where this has happened?
And it takes this one guy to publish this book before people start talking about it.
I also knew his work as an environmental attorney.
And I think that's a very important thing for people to realize.
Like what he did was essentially help clean up the East River.
And if it wasn't for him and his work, that would still be probably a polluted shithole unless somebody else came along and stopped these corporations from polluting the river and then forced them to clean it up.
cheryl hines
Right.
That's romantic.
And by the way, you know, when people talk about Bobby and they want to paint him as somebody who is trying to hurt people or kill people or whatever that sounds like or looks like, when you look at his career and who he is and what he's accomplished, yeah, he spent a lot of time suing huge corporations because they're polluting waterways because it's hurting people, killing people, giving people cancer.
So why would he spend all of his life fighting for people, fighting for individuals, you know, and then suddenly change and want to really hurt a lot of people?
It just doesn't track.
Why We Left The Vaccine Narrative 00:04:29
cheryl hines
It doesn't make sense at all.
joe rogan
Well, the whole thing came about because of vaccines and his questioning of the vaccine narrative, which is now way more mainstream.
Because I, like many people, said the scientists must be correct.
Everybody else is a kook.
You got to get your vaccines.
You got to do whatever you have to do.
But I was also pretty aware of, I had a friend who had a child that they vaccinated him.
And when they vaccinated him, he stopped responding and he never responded again.
He became nonverbal autistic for his whole life.
And he firmly believed it was because of the child's reaction to the vaccines.
That's a taboo to bring up.
When you bring that up, people immediately back off.
They get scared.
They get nervous.
I firmly believe that when you have this sort of a visceral reaction to any sort of a subject like that, without a rational examining of what is objective truth, when you have that visceral reaction, something's happened.
You've been co-opted.
There's a thought in your head that you can't question this or you'll be ostracized.
You'll be cast out of the crew, the tribe, you're out.
Yeah, and that's what everyone's afraid of.
cheryl hines
That is what, because that is what happens, as we've seen.
But to that point, you know, as mother, it's so frustrating to hear parents say, this is my experience.
This is the experience I had with my own child.
I'm with this child every day.
After the vaccine, there was a change.
This is what happened.
This is my experience.
For people to get mad at them for even, like you're saying, talking about it, they're not allowed to talk about the experience they had or ask why it happened or let people talk to each other to see if they have shared experiences that can lead us to something better.
joe rogan
Right.
cheryl hines
It's crazy.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
And it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be accepted.
We shouldn't communicate like that.
It's not smart.
We've been lied to so many times.
I mean, why would you just assume that that stopped, that that has ended?
You know, if you just go back and think about all the different things that both the government and, of course, pharmaceutical drug companies have lied about, or at least been wrong about, the amount of drugs that they had to pull, it's substantial.
cheryl hines
It's a giant chunk.
Well, that's the question.
So we understand and accept that there have been drugs out there that everybody thought were good, were helpful.
And then 10 years later, 20 years later, the companies, scientists, whomever realize, oh, actually, they're doing more harm than good.
joe rogan
What about thalidomide?
Like what it did with birth defects and children.
cheryl hines
It's, you know what?
joe rogan
It's crazy.
They used to prescribe that to mothers.
cheryl hines
Well, it's even like getting x-rayed.
Yeah.
You used to have mothers, you know, that were pregnant x-rayed to see how the baby was doing for a long time.
joe rogan
It would be cool if it gave the baby superpowers, but it never does.
It only happens in the science fiction.
cheryl hines
Yeah, that never works out on the good way.
joe rogan
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Radiation Risks in Scanners 00:15:10
cheryl hines
Yeah, yeah, it's intense.
joe rogan
Do you ever see those images of what happened to the women that used to work in those x-ray offices?
So every day they used to have to turn on the x-ray machine, they would x-ray their hand to make sure that it would work.
And they all got like hand cancer.
Oh, it's horrible.
It's weird because they have one hand that looks normal and one hand that looks like a wicked witch hand.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
See if you find some of those.
It's very strict.
Because we didn't know any better.
cheryl hines
Right.
Because we didn't know.
Nobody was out to kill anybody, to murder, to do harm, but it was doing harm.
So let's take a step back, readjust, and do something different.
joe rogan
Well, the extreme amount of money that pharmaceutical drug companies have put into making sure that they're in control of the narrative, or at least they're influencing the narrative.
It's like this is a slave.
cheryl hines
Whoa.
joe rogan
Isn't that crazy?
Isn't that crazy?
cheryl hines
Crazy.
joe rogan
And that's just from x-raying your hand.
jamie vernon
They would use it to calibrate the machine every day.
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
That lady cooked her hand.
Isn't that awful?
Oh, it's so spooky.
cheryl hines
That's really crazy.
joe rogan
Ya.
cheryl hines
What are the you're not going to have the answer to this, but what are the things that we have to go through in the airport?
joe rogan
Oh, the chairs.
That's radio.
Yeah, that's like a radio frequency, right?
What is that?
Let's pull that up.
I do not think that that's dangerous.
But look, there's a lot of people that think Wi-Fi is dangerous.
There's a lot of people that think that 5G is dangerous.
They think that EMF from even electric cars is dangerous.
There's people telling you you shouldn't have airbuds in your ears.
You know, you should only listen with a cord or a speaker if you can.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Well, it makes sense.
You've got things going directly into your head through your brain.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's probably not the best thing for you.
But I mean, it's like, how many people are wearing AirPods and how little damage is it actually doing?
That's the question.
It's like, what is the real issue?
Most TSA body scanners use millimeter wave radio waves.
Okay.
So not x-rays and do not add to your ionizing radiation exposure.
So it's not x-ray base, right?
It's a radio wave.
But is it what is it?
Is it dangerous?
How does the dose compare to a flight?
What is that?
X-ray scanners?
That's just scanners.
unidentified
Just have blind faith that this is okay.
joe rogan
Follow-up.
Millimeter wave scanner radiation.
Is it dangerous?
Is there any dangerous aspects of it?
Health and radiation protection agencies note that doses from older backscatter x-ray scanners were extremely low.
Whatever.
Meanwhile, they fucking don't go anywhere near it when they turn it on.
When you go to the dentist's office, they hide behind the screen.
cheryl hines
People went to the other room and you're like, what?
They're in a fucking bunker right next to my head.
joe rogan
And they make you wear like a lead vest over your body.
cheryl hines
Yeah, it's intense.
joe rogan
Do they still do that?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Yes.
joe rogan
I haven't gotten one of those with the lead vest in a while.
cheryl hines
No, and you're right.
They go into the other room and they're like, don't move.
You're just sitting there with a, you know.
joe rogan
If there's any worries anyone should have about these body scanners, let's say.
cheryl hines
I mean, I don't want to cause, I'm not causing any outrage here.
I'm just curious.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's just.
cheryl hines
I'm just fine.
joe rogan
I was like, the TSA ones are dangerous.
cheryl hines
Okay.
joe rogan
Major health agencies did not see any proven health risk at the levels used, but people still raise a few practical concerns.
So millimeter wave scanners use low power, non-ionizing radio waves.
Studies and reviews have not found harmful effects at the power levels used in airport screening.
Sensitive groups, analysis that modeled risk for children, pregnant people.
What?
Why does it say pregnant people?
Which kind of people can get pregnant?
Do you think, hey, AI, hey, super genius.
You think maybe it's women, you fucking asshole?
And frequent flyers have still found that low-added risk from backscatter scanners, far below routine medical x-rays or even the radiation from flying itself.
Well, that is a thing, too.
cheryl hines
Oh, right.
Radiation in the plane.
joe rogan
Flying when you're flying.
cheryl hines
I mean, there's so many things.
Isn't it just we're all going down?
joe rogan
Put that into perplexity, please.
What is why is flying?
Why does that give you radiation?
Is it because you're closer to the sun?
Like, what is it?
Less protection.
Yes.
Yeah.
Is that what it is?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Is that all it is?
jamie vernon
Yeah, mostly.
joe rogan
I mean, you're up high?
jamie vernon
Yeah, there's not a lot of stuff to diffuse it.
joe rogan
Less air.
unidentified
Right.
jamie vernon
Something I saw someone bring up recently, too, having those screens right behind your head because there's one in every single one.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
Oh, that's got to be bad for you.
jamie vernon
Millimeter away in your head.
cheryl hines
Well, Wi-Fi on the plane, it's like just bouncing around.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, Wi-Fi.
Well, they used to be able to smoke.
cheryl hines
Which is crazy.
I was just, the plane that I was on had the no-smoking sign.
joe rogan
I would feel super uncomfortable getting on that plane.
cheryl hines
It's not a good feeling.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
When you're like, okay.
joe rogan
How old's this fucking plane?
They used to have little ashtrays.
Remember those?
cheryl hines
Yes.
joe rogan
In the seats?
cheryl hines
And that's really crazy.
joe rogan
And a typical commercial flight, you get a small dose of extra cosmic radiation on the order of what you expect from a medical x-ray spread out over several hours.
Whoa.
So every time you fly, it's like getting x-rayed?
That's kind of crazy.
What happens to pilots?
Okay, that's a question.
cheryl hines
That's a good question.
joe rogan
Do pilots have any health risks from radiation exposure while flying?
cheryl hines
Yeah, it's a good question.
joe rogan
Because I would imagine if you're flying all the time.
cheryl hines
They're the ones that would.
joe rogan
It's like getting an x-ray every day.
cheryl hines
That's, I mean, everything is killing us, right?
That's why I came on.
I wanted to hear what's going to kill us first.
There's so many things.
joe rogan
Yes.
cheryl hines
This is going to be like a meteorite that's going to hit us first.
joe rogan
But there's a lot of stuff keeping us alive longer now, too.
Pilots and other air crew do get more radiation than typical travelers, but whether that causes health problems is still being studied and any added risk appears modest on a personal level.
Like they would be the ones that you would be able to study from the best whether or not flying and flight attendants, whether they're not flying is actually bad for you.
cheryl hines
Well, we haven't heard anything yet.
joe rogan
No.
cheryl hines
So that's good.
joe rogan
You would imagine that it's a long time.
Many studies find pilots and flight attendants have higher rates of some cancers.
Uh-oh.
Especially melanoma and other skin cancers.
And in some studies, breast cancer.
However, reviews say it's not clear how much of it is from cosmic radiation versus other factors such as disrupted sleep.
That's true.
Like UV exposure during off time and lifestyle.
Firm causal link to flight radiation alone has not been established.
That does make sense with the disrupted sleep because I talked to a pilot once who did like a lot of late-night flights and it's like, your whole body is just so wrecked.
Like people who do the night shift.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
That can't be good for you.
Your circadian rhythm is all fucked up.
You're sleeping during.
cheryl hines
Can't you adjust, though?
Can't you adjust?
joe rogan
If you can.
But if you're the guy who gets the night shift every night, you're working at a factory and you punch in at like 8 p.m.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like you're not, that's just your life, man.
That's how you live.
cheryl hines
That's like shooting a film and you do like three or four night shoots.
Someone snaps.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
There's always one person that just like freaking crazy.
joe rogan
Oh, you're oh no.
cheryl hines
Chad just went.
We just lost Chad.
I don't know what happened to him, but he freaked out.
joe rogan
Some people, when they can't sleep, they become big babies.
cheryl hines
Yeah, very emotional.
He's very emotional.
joe rogan
Well, there's a thing, there's an indulgence on sets, too, from actors.
It's like there's a kind of a lack of appreciation sometimes because you just get accustomed to it, of how fortunate you are to be able to do what you do.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, very few people get to be an actor in a movie.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And you're spazing out because you didn't get enough sleep.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
And meanwhile, the crew really didn't get enough sleep.
joe rogan
They didn't have sleep either.
cheryl hines
They're working two hours before you and two hours after you.
joe rogan
But if they spaz out, they'll get fired.
cheryl hines
Yeah, immediately.
joe rogan
Yeah, and that's the difference.
Like, it's not an equality thing.
So these people, they're aware they're like royalty walking around this film set.
You know, it's kind of odd.
cheryl hines
Well, it is odd.
And at the same time, it's a very unique experience, right?
Because this person has to be on camera.
And every inch of their face is, you know, going to be six feet tall in a movie theater.
And so everybody's just making sure that person is doing okay and they look okay and they feel okay.
Because if they don't, then you don't have anything.
You don't have anything to shoot.
So everybody is just like.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Are you okay?
Are you feeling okay?
Are you hydrated?
Do you need water?
Do you need a piece of turkey?
joe rogan
Well, the results of that, like psychologically over a prolonged period of time, people usually get really weird.
cheryl hines
Yeah, agree.
joe rogan
That's their normal experience is everybody's treating them like, take care of your hair.
Brush your shoulders.
cheryl hines
It's true.
joe rogan
It's kooky.
cheryl hines
It's kooky.
That's why, you know, people that start early, especially that have success early.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
cheryl hines
It's not good.
It's not a good way to kick off your life.
It's like, this is not normal.
If you think this is normal, you're going to be real sad in a few years.
joe rogan
And I don't think you can recover from a bad developmental period that way.
cheryl hines
That's hard.
joe rogan
It's different.
It's different than anything else.
Like, you could have a bad childhood and it'll make you more resilient.
But a bad childhood in front of the whole world and you've never had to really work and you've never had to really struggle and you've been famous since you were young.
So your interactions with people from the time you were young is people loving you for your work, which is not good for kids.
cheryl hines
No, it's not.
And the way you look.
That's a big part of it, which is hard.
Well, it's not just your work.
You know, it's like what we're talking about.
You have to look good while you're doing it.
That's part of the job.
joe rogan
Especially as a woman, that's a big factor.
But I always liken it to like concrete.
Like if you make concrete incorrectly, so like if you decide to mix it, but you don't add enough water or you don't, it's only you can add water later once it's solid.
It's like that's what it is.
cheryl hines
It's going to be lumpy.
joe rogan
It's just going to be sucky, weak ass concrete that's going to break.
cheryl hines
Wait, when did you get, well, what was your first break?
Was it news radio?
joe rogan
Yeah, well, I was on another show before news radio called Hardball.
It was a sitcom that was on Fox.
That's what I actually moved out to LA for.
And if that show got canceled and if I didn't have a lease on an apartment, I would have went back to New York.
I hated it.
cheryl hines
Why did you hate it?
joe rogan
Well, I didn't like the whole scene.
It felt, I was used to fight gyms, pool halls, and comedy clubs.
Those are the people I was used to.
They're the funniest, like most brash, blunt people, and everybody's cracking on everybody.
And it's like, it's jolly.
Those are jolly places for the most part.
And then I went from there to this weird world of groupthink and seeing people read the Hollywood Reporter every day and get really upset.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I would keep telling them, like, that's the devil's rag.
Like, why are you reading that?
Like, don't read that.
cheryl hines
Right, because they're just imagining they didn't get the role or they didn't get the film or whatever.
It is odd, but yes, that's.
joe rogan
It's kooky.
And it's also the groupthink thing.
It's like, I saw it like right away.
Like, if a film was really good, if everybody decided it was really good, you had to say it was really good.
You couldn't say, I fucking hated that movie.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, there was this Jack Nicholson movie where he played this asshole, and I think it was Helen Hunt played.
cheryl hines
That's what it's getting.
joe rogan
Yes, that one.
And I was like, Jesus Christ, like, why?
The whole idea was that he was a fucked up dude because he was on some sort of a medication.
That medication made him racist.
Like, it didn't make any sense.
The whole thing was nuts.
And I remember everybody's saying, what an amazing movie.
I'm like, God, I felt bad for her.
Like, get the fuck out of that relationship.
Find someone who's nice to you.
This is crazy.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
This is crazy.
cheryl hines
Racist.
joe rogan
It didn't make any sense.
And I remember arguing with people on a set about it.
And they were all like, oh, I thought it was an amazing film.
Like, they had to say it.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
It was Jack Nicholson.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
It was an amazing movie.
I was like, that movie's fucking depressing, man.
Like, that was all that poor lady had.
This fucking asshole, this old asshole, was.
cheryl hines
It was like the movie Precious.
joe rogan
I didn't see that.
Yeah, I heard that.
cheryl hines
It's just, you're just watching it and you're like, well, nothing else bad could happen.
And then it's another thing happens.
No, it just gets worse.
And by the end of it, You're just feeling like, why are we alive?
joe rogan
I just like those kind of movies.
I don't want to feel depressed anymore.
unidentified
No.
cheryl hines
Okay, so then you got news radio.
News radio.
joe rogan
So I stayed in LA just because I had a lease.
That was it.
I'm not kidding.
I was so ready to go.
cheryl hines
You were not going to break that lease.
joe rogan
I was trying to say I didn't have the money.
I was like, okay, I have some money because I did the sitcom for six episodes.
So I had some money.
So I was like, how much money would it cost me to just fucking pay this lease off?
cheryl hines
I was a jet.
joe rogan
And I was like, oh, is that just stay here?
And then I got another development deal.
I got a development deal with NBC.
And they had this pot before I did the show.
They said, we have this show that we have a pilot for, but we're going to fire this one person on the pilot.
And would you come in and read for us?
cheryl hines
Did you know?
Did you know who was being fired?
joe rogan
Yeah, well, it was actually a friend of mine.
cheryl hines
Did you know at the time?
Well, he got hard to replace somebody.
joe rogan
It's Ray Romano.
Oh, he's a good friend of mine.
cheryl hines
He's a friend of mine.
joe rogan
He's awesome.
And I had worked with Ray like multiple times in New York, but Ray got fired and then they replaced him with another guy who was in the pilot.
And then they decided to fire that guy.
So I was like, okay, well, at least I'm not taking Ray's job.
unidentified
Yeah, that's right.
joe rogan
But then Ray went out to do Everybody Loves Raymond, which him getting fired was the best thing that ever happened to him.
So then I go in and they let me watch the pilot.
It was already made.
And so I got to see it's Phil Hartman and Dave Foley and Candy Alexander and Maura Tierney and Andy Dick and Stephen Root.
I'm like, holy shit.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, I can be on this show.
This show is amazing.
So we did that.
Then I did Fear Factor.
cheryl hines
Well, how long was News Radio?
joe rogan
Five years.
cheryl hines
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
But it really wasn't popular.
It was only popular on reruns.
Yeah, once it got into syndication, because we moved around like over the course of five years, we moved nine times, I believe.
cheryl hines
When you were doing news radio, that's right.
I don't know what years.
joe rogan
It was 94 to 99.
cheryl hines
Okay.
So I got Curbier Enthusiasm in 99.
So before that, I was working for Robin Michelle Reiner as a personal assistant.
Bunny Eaten By Bull 00:16:14
cheryl hines
And I was also doing like catering at night sometimes just to make ends meet.
And one of my jobs went, and I never knew what the job would be.
You know, they'd say, show up here at whatever, five o'clock.
One of my jobs one time was news radio.
There was a little green room where, you know, agents and people.
And I was in charge of like making sure the food on the table looked good.
joe rogan
That's hilarious.
cheryl hines
I just stood there for hours.
I think Phil Hartman came in and was like, hey, I didn't know him at the time.
I'd met him.
And he said, oh, you know, who are you here to see?
I said, oh, I'm just in charge of this table.
But that was my big job for the night.
joe rogan
My friend Joey Diaz, who is at that time, he had just recently gotten out of jail.
He came to visit me on the set and he realized that the good food was all in the VIP screen room.
So and he back, he's like, he's he got overweight for a while, but back then he wasn't.
Back then, he's just literally a big football player.
He's like a big, scary looking Cuban guy.
And he was in there eating the shrimp cocktail.
And they were like, who is the scary guy that's eating?
And is he supposed to be in here?
They all like freaked out because Joey went into the super secret room.
I was wondering, I wonder if he went in there when you were in there.
cheryl hines
Oh, could you imagine?
I was like, excuse me, sir.
You can only have six shrimp.
I have to watch the table.
joe rogan
Well, he wasn't supposed to be in there.
He just went in.
He was just my friend hanging out.
unidentified
He just went in there.
joe rogan
He's like, this is where the good food is.
And he went in there and started challenging.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They were all freaking out.
It was very funny.
It was very funny.
cheryl hines
But did you like LA any better when you were doing news radio?
joe rogan
I always wanted to leave.
I always felt like it was radioactive.
I always felt like there's a part of this.
Look, the weather's great.
unidentified
It's beautiful.
joe rogan
The comedy store was amazing.
It was great to have that place, but there's too many people.
When there's that many people, I think you devalue people.
I don't think people are worthwhile to you.
I think people are way better off living in a small town or a small city.
I think it's healthier.
cheryl hines
It's a good community.
joe rogan
Yeah, I just think when people become a when you get on the highway and you see millions of people, like fuck, and you see like the 405 at like 4 p.m., it's creaky.
cheryl hines
And it's like 10 lanes, just bumper to bumper in both directions.
joe rogan
And everybody thinks that everybody else is annoying because you're in your way.
Everybody's going to be able to do it.
cheryl hines
You meet on the road.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
I thought you were going to be able to get it.
joe rogan
They get in front of you.
Like, you're not going anywhere.
Someone decides to get in front of you.
Like, who's fucking God?
Everybody gets crazy.
cheryl hines
It is true.
joe rogan
It's not healthy.
cheryl hines
No.
joe rogan
I felt like that wasn't healthy.
And I really hated the whole mentality behind the group think that was a part of Hollywood because everybody's trying to get cast in something.
And in order to get cast in something, you have to be ingratiate yourself with the producers and the casting directors.
Everybody has to like you.
So you have to have the same opinions as they do.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And if you don't, you have to fake it.
I was like, this is gross.
Like, this is gross.
The way they behave is gross.
The casting people would treat you was gross.
I didn't like it at all.
cheryl hines
Well, you mean just going in and auditioning?
No, it was hard.
joe rogan
Well, there was a lot of it where there was like this arrogance.
This like this, like they're giving you this chance, so they're like really arrogant.
I was like, hey, I don't even care about this.
cheryl hines
That's why you got the part.
joe rogan
Probably forgot some of them.
That's why I got Fear Factor because I was the only one that made fun of it.
cheryl hines
And did you, you never had to do, you never had to like eat the spider.
joe rogan
I ate a bunch of stuff.
I ate some spiders.
Yeah, I ate an Iraqi cave spider.
I ate a Madagascar hissing cockroach.
I ate a tomato hornworm.
I ate a sheep's eyeball.
I ate a bunch of stuff because I ate it just to show the people that you could eat it.
unidentified
Ew.
cheryl hines
Did you ever throw up after?
joe rogan
No.
I only threw up once at home.
cheryl hines
I was like, waited until you got out.
joe rogan
Though it was really good editing.
They did a great job.
And there was this girl that was.
cheryl hines
It's not like Bobby.
Bobby has never thrown up.
It's just he doesn't, so he will eat anything and do anything.
joe rogan
Well, I've definitely thrown up.
But this time it was this lady who was eating worms and she had to swallow the worms and she couldn't.
So she spit them up into the glass and then she could keep going if she could redrink what was in the glass that she already spit up.
And so she did it.
unidentified
I went ran to the kitchen and threw up in the sink.
joe rogan
And I was like, how?
And I kept thinking, how odd?
Like, what a great job they did with the editing and the music that it got me so wrapped up in it.
Even though I was at home, I was like five feet away from that lady while she was doing that.
I didn't throw up.
cheryl hines
And it didn't bother you.
joe rogan
It bothered me, but I was trying to help her.
I was trying to get her, talk her through it.
cheryl hines
That's why you were so good on it because you were never making fun of people.
joe rogan
I definitely made fun of people.
cheryl hines
Well, but not in a you're so crazy to be on this show.
And why are you crying?
You're the one that wanted to come on.
joe rogan
You were, you were very, I wanted to help them at the very least do their best.
And there was a lot of it that I said, look, I know this sounds crazy, but if you just force yourself to chew this and swallow it, you could do it.
You got to just take your mind out of this place.
It's not that bad.
And sometimes I would eat things just to show them.
cheryl hines
Ew.
joe rogan
Like I ate a roach just to show my girl.
I'll eat this if you do.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
I want you to eat this roach.
It's not that big a deal.
cheryl hines
Ew.
Did you chew it?
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You have to.
You can't swallow it.
It'll be awesome.
cheryl hines
Do you remember what it tasted like?
joe rogan
Not much.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
No, it's but it's in your head.
It doesn't crunchy, sure, real crunchy.
But the actual taste itself was not bad.
I mean, it wasn't good.
It wasn't like I look forward to roaches.
cheryl hines
And what about rats?
Did you do a lot of rat work?
joe rogan
We did work with rats where people had to like lion a thing in a coffin and covered them with rats and the rats would be nibble on them.
cheryl hines
Uh-uh.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's not good.
But they were pet rats.
I mean, they were fed a healthy diet.
They were.
They were like raised rats.
They weren't like dangerous street rats that have been eating each other.
cheryl hines
Did anything?
I mean, you probably can't talk about it, but did anything ever go horribly wrong?
joe rogan
No.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
No, we got lucky, though.
It's just luck.
I really believe that.
Because we made them ride bulls once.
cheryl hines
Yeah, you can't control a bull.
joe rogan
I told the people, don't do it.
When all the contestants, I said, I wouldn't do this.
I'll tell you right now.
I don't think you should do it because it's not worth it.
I go, the kind of catastrophic injury that you get from a bull stomping on your face is like, you don't come back from that.
Okay, you have to understand there's not a 0% possibility that this bull will stomp you or kick you while you're in the air being launched off its body and get kicked in the face.
Like, that's possible.
Don't do it.
I wouldn't say that.
cheryl hines
Some people would back out, right?
joe rogan
They all did it.
I think.
Appreciate it.
cheryl hines
And then they got to come in front of the bull.
joe rogan
How do you, I mean, they flew.
This one lady weighed like 98 pounds, and she got bucked and she went flying and landed right on her back and was like knocked out.
Yeah, it was horrible.
I would have never done that.
I mean, and look, I've had bull riders on the podcast before.
I've talked to multiple.
We had bull riders on Fear Factor.
cheryl hines
Doesn't it?
You might know.
joe rogan
This is that you?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
unidentified
Did you see it?
joe rogan
What a cute tone.
Hey, put him on speakerphone.
unidentified
Seriously?
joe rogan
Yeah, why not?
cheryl hines
Honey, you're on speaker.
I'm here with Joe.
joe rogan
We're on the podcast.
You're on the podcast, so don't swear.
unidentified
Hello.
cheryl hines
Can you hear me, honey?
We're talking to Joe right now at your live.
dwight d eisenhower
Well, thanks, baby.
unidentified
Hey, Joe, I'm looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing you too.
You probably shouldn't have told people that because then they start attacking you.
cheryl hines
Is there anything you need to tell me?
unidentified
I was just going to ask Joe to be nice to my wife.
joe rogan
Why didn't you call me?
cheryl hines
I'm in tears over here, honey.
It's really, it's going horribly.
unidentified
All right, well, bring me back some of that alpha.
Alpha brain.
joe rogan
Yeah, we'll do.
cheryl hines
Okay, baby.
I love you.
joe rogan
Take care.
unidentified
Love you.
joe rogan
Bye, Bobby.
Love you too.
That's hilarious.
What was the showing me?
jamie vernon
That Mexican OT did bull stuff.
joe rogan
No, Mexican OD did it.
He got fucked up.
cheryl hines
No.
jamie vernon
I mean, he got up and ran away.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
This is a guest that was on my podcast.
He's awesome.
He's a brilliant rapper.
Oh, my goodness, dude.
Oh, my goodness, dude.
cheryl hines
That's so terrible.
joe rogan
Oh, my goodness, dude.
Don't do that no more.
cheryl hines
I mean, can I ask a question to the men?
I mean, do you wear special equipment down there?
joe rogan
Yes.
I assume they do.
They might not while they're doing that because I saw one guy get a horn right up his butt.
Yeah, but there's no special equipment that's going to protect you there.
What about your cup for sure?
cheryl hines
You should wear something.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Because that doesn't seem like that's healthy.
joe rogan
Dope.
Definitely not healthy.
cheryl hines
I don't think there's anything healthy about it, right?
joe rogan
No, definitely not healthy.
cheryl hines
I mean, it's just like a lot of pressure on your balls.
joe rogan
For sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Have you ever done it?
joe rogan
What?
Bull riding?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
No.
No, don't never do that.
cheryl hines
I thought you were just telling the other people not to do that.
joe rogan
Oh, no.
I have a healthy respect for animals.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Especially big ones.
I think people get super delusional.
We also get super delusional when we compare size.
Like if you say, oh, a monkey's smaller than me, that thing will fucking kill you.
cheryl hines
No, they'll pick your eyes out, right?
joe rogan
Oh, they'll rip your face apart.
Yeah.
There's a crazy video of this guy in India who's sitting down and he lets this monkey sit on his lap and he's like being all calm with the monkey and then the monkey just decides to tear a giant chunk off his scalp.
And the way it does it, it just bites his head and just yanks like a football-sized piece of meat off this guy's head.
cheryl hines
And there's no stopping it.
There's no stopping it once it starts happening.
joe rogan
You don't know how strong they are.
Imagine being so strong you could just rip someone's skin clean off their head.
And this is like a little thing, a little 30-pound.
cheryl hines
It looks adorable.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he thought he was being cute.
It's like, I'm going to be peaceful.
jamie vernon
I won't play it.
I don't know if she wants to play it.
cheryl hines
Oh, yeah.
No, I can't watch it, but.
joe rogan
Do you want to watch it?
cheryl hines
No, I don't.
Do you want to?
joe rogan
You can watch it.
cheryl hines
Yeah, I'll look away.
joe rogan
So he lets this thing on his lap.
cheryl hines
Okay.
joe rogan
And then it just decides to bite his head.
Look at it real quick.
cheryl hines
Oh, my gosh.
joe rogan
He's missing a giant shovel.
cheryl hines
Oh, my God.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So he's scarred for life.
You know, it was a dumb decision.
You let that thing dominate you.
He didn't understand what he was doing.
cheryl hines
No.
joe rogan
You let that thing get on top of him.
The thing just decided for no reason to just bite his head.
cheryl hines
No, we used to have a pet emu.
unidentified
Ooh.
joe rogan
They're the dumbest birds, by the way.
cheryl hines
They are so dumb.
Their heads are tiny, so their brain must be.
And the rest of them is big.
So you just had this emu like coming at you every day.
Well, it wasn't relaxing.
It got to the point where I had to walk outside with a shovel.
joe rogan
Just to protect yourself from the emo.
That's crazy.
I have a friend who has ostriches.
cheryl hines
Are they nicer?
I wonder if they're nicer.
joe rogan
He says the same thing.
He hates them.
He has this big ranch in Texas and he got ostriches.
He's like, dude, I hate these things.
Look at that face.
cheryl hines
No, it's terrible.
They're mean.
And, you know.
joe rogan
They tried to bite us on Fear Factor too.
We had an episode where they had to drink a whole ostrich egg.
cheryl hines
Ew.
joe rogan
A raw ostrich egg.
unidentified
Ew.
joe rogan
But we had ostriches in the background.
They started just fucking with people, like biting their heads.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
They'll peck you.
joe rogan
Yeah, they'll parry.
You know what else is dumb?
This lady was a falconeer.
That's what they're called, right?
cheryl hines
Falconer.
joe rogan
Falconer, when they train.
cheryl hines
No, that's Bobby.
Bobby's book.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Oh, so this lady, she had a golden eagle.
She had a couple.
The falcons are the most fascinating.
But then she had an owl.
And she's like, owl is there.
First of all, one misconception is that owls are smart.
She goes, they are so dumb.
They're the dumbest birds next to emus.
Only emos are dumber than owls.
cheryl hines
I didn't know that.
joe rogan
I was like, really?
That's cruy?
Like, why do we have this idea that they're don't pollute?
Remember?
cheryl hines
They're very wise.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Why do we think they're wise?
joe rogan
And he's counting how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tissue rope pop, remember?
cheryl hines
Yes.
But he could never get to it.
So maybe we should have learned.
Yeah, this guy's full of shit.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's full of shit.
He's a fake professor.
cheryl hines
We've had some owls in our day with Bobby.
joe rogan
Oh, pets?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
joe rogan
Is this Bobby?
cheryl hines
No.
joe rogan
No, this is someone.
jamie vernon
I saw this going around the other night.
joe rogan
What is this?
Is that his falcon?
jamie vernon
You can't see where it is.
joe rogan
Whoa.
That looks like an eagle.
jamie vernon
He sees it from away.
joe rogan
Is that an eagle or a hawk?
What is that?
Does it say?
jamie vernon
It doesn't say.
I don't know if it said specifically.
I'm going to send another Facebook link.
joe rogan
They had a golden eagle.
The golden eagle is amazing.
But it kept trying to land.
We had a little campfire outside.
It kept trying to land on the fire.
cheryl hines
That's weird.
joe rogan
Why is this bird so stupid?
cheryl hines
That looks like a hawk.
joe rogan
Yeah, it looks like a hawk.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
So this lady, she had hawks and falcons.
And she's like, the problem with hawks is as soon as you let them loose, they immediately find something to kill.
She's like, they just, everything that's near them, they kill.
She goes, like, this sucker kills birds.
He kills squirrels.
Like, you let the owl go.
The owl just, like, goes over there.
He'll come back to you.
The eagle, the same thing.
Not the hawks.
The hawks are like, it's time to kill.
cheryl hines
No, that's what they do.
It's weird.
Like I said, Bobby loves hawks and falcons, and he will—I went hawking with him once.
joe rogan
How do you do that?
cheryl hines
well you you have these they do it in twos like these two birds and are they his birds Yes.
joe rogan
So he's trained these birds?
cheryl hines
He's trained them and the other.
joe rogan
That's kind of a crazy thing to be good at.
cheryl hines
It's a very crazy.
But look, even since he was young.
But so it's pretty fascinating because you have to do it when after the leaves have fallen from the trees and there are two birds that hunt together and they go up into the trees and then it's really beautiful at first for me because it's until the carnage.
So they start, they start going from tree to tree and they're communicating with each other and they'll see a you know bunny cute, sweet.
You see where this is going.
And they see a bunny down there and they go, and they go and one of them does something and then the other one swoops down and grabs it and they just tear it apart and the next thing, you know, it's just, you know bunny, guts.
Yeah, so it's cute until then, but it's pretty fascinating to watch them do it.
joe rogan
There was some kind of a war in my backyard that was going on for a while and I don't know what animal was doing it, but I found a bunch of beheaded hawks.
Wow yeah, I don't know what bird was killing the hawks, but they'll kill the hawk and and rip its head off.
cheryl hines
Ask Bobby, he will know.
I bet he will know.
joe rogan
I assume it was something bigger it's, but yeah, they're big already.
cheryl hines
It's hard to imagine what an owl owls eat hawks.
I'm really.
But are they fast enough?
Oh yeah, an owl is fast.
joe rogan
Owls uh, are silent and the the thing about owls is there's a really interesting video that you could find where they take a bunch of different birds and they have them fly from point a to point b and then they have a sound uh meter and the sound registers registers the decibels of their flight.
They may owls.
It's almost completely silent.
They're so silent, they're so sneaky.
So there's a great black and white video of this owl in its uh, it's night vision the, the camera, and you see this owl swooping up on a on a hawk's nest and snatches a hawk right out of the nest.
Leafcutter Ant Colony 00:14:27
joe rogan
Oh my god, I wonder, comes out of nowhere, like you see eyes in the distance.
cheryl hines
Yeah, it's really weird.
I don't think i've ever seen an owl in flights, but not that I really in real life.
joe rogan
You mean oh, I did when I where I eat only at night.
Yes, i've only seen them fly at night, but where I live.
One time I was driving home and there was this owl that was right on the side of the road and as I was driving he took off with a rabbit in his, in his talons and then just decided he didn't want to carry this rabbit anymore and let it go like maybe it was dangerous because the rabbit was kind of big.
And then the rabbit dropped in the middle of the road.
So I pulled the car over and I got out and I looked at this like gutted rabbit and this owl who would just jack this rabbit and then just decided, it's so weird that it they he, i'm assuming it was an aggressive male owl, might have been a female protecting its young or giving its young food.
A lot of them is that.
cheryl hines
I mean, I wonder if the uh rabbit was diseased or something.
joe rogan
No, it was food.
cheryl hines
No, but how?
joe rogan
But that's so the rabbits can't even hear it coming.
That's the thing about owls.
That's why they're such brilliant nocturnal hunters is because see if you can find that video of the an the, the birds, the different sounds between the.
They like there's a hawk, there's an eagle and then the owl, just no, It's like nothing.
It just swoops in and just snatches them.
They eat a lot of cats, too, by the way.
Yeah.
cheryl hines
I didn't know that.
joe rogan
Yeah, a friend of mine found there was an owl nest and he found like six cat collars in the nest.
cheryl hines
Oh, I always just assumed it was coyotes.
joe rogan
It is a lot of coyotes, but it's also owls.
Owls kill a lot of people's cats.
cheryl hines
That is crazy.
joe rogan
Yeah, and they can fly with your cat.
That's what's crazy.
So watch.
unidentified
To fly over a series of super sensitive microphones.
joe rogan
So that's a pigeon.
Super loud.
unidentified
I don't know what trying to do that.
Oh, geez.
cheryl hines
The hawk.
joe rogan
Pretty loud.
Now watch the owl.
unidentified
It's Kenza's turn.
joe rogan
Nothing.
You don't hear anything.
Isn't that crazy?
cheryl hines
You don't even hear the wings.
unidentified
Nope.
joe rogan
And those are super sensitive microphones.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Now see if you can find the video of the owl snatching the hawk out of the nest.
cheryl hines
That's so crazy.
I didn't know this.
joe rogan
Yeah, owls are super predators.
Yeah.
They see so well at night and they have those big heads.
Yeah, then their heads can turn crazy eyes.
Yeah, watch this.
So see those dots in the distance?
That's them.
Watch this.
unidentified
Snatch.
joe rogan
The other hawk barely knows what the hell happened.
cheryl hines
Oh, my God.
unidentified
Snatch.
cheryl hines
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Yep.
Just steals them right out of the nest.
Owls are big, too.
cheryl hines
They seem to be work alone.
They seem a little lonesome.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, I mean, you can't fly a flock of owls.
cheryl hines
But like the hawks, when they hunt, they hunt together, you know, and they're communicating.
joe rogan
Oh, you have to.
They make so much noise.
cheryl hines
That's true.
joe rogan
They got a clumsy approach where the owl is sneaky.
cheryl hines
And how about the pigeons?
They do not have a chance.
joe rogan
Oh, chance.
So loud.
What do they eat?
That's a good question.
That's a good question.
cheryl hines
Bird sees.
joe rogan
I know what eats pigeons, though.
cheryl hines
What?
joe rogan
Rats in New York City.
There's a crazy video of a rat in New York City grabbing a pigeon and attacking it and eating it.
Yeah, and dragging it away.
You've never seen that?
cheryl hines
I like that you think that's what I'm looking at online.
joe rogan
What are you looking at online passion tips?
cheryl hines
It's not that.
joe rogan
If you want to live in a big city, that's the nature that you get.
The rats and pigeons.
cheryl hines
There are a lot of rats in DC.
joe rogan
Rats kill pigeons all the time.
cheryl hines
Rats kill pigeons.
joe rogan
Yeah, if they catch them slipping, they're close enough where they can grab them.
cheryl hines
It's disgusting.
joe rogan
Oh, rats are disgusting.
Have you ever watched that documentary on Netflix called Rats?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
Whoa.
cheryl hines
I would never.
joe rogan
You should.
cheryl hines
No, God, no.
joe rogan
It's a game changer.
No.
It's so nutty.
When you find out that the biomass of rats in New York City is roughly equal to the biomass of people.
Meaning the weight of all the people in New York City is roughly equal to the weight of all the rats in New York City.
cheryl hines
But you lived in New York.
joe rogan
Is that accurate?
I think that's accurate.
It might be the numbers.
It might be the same number of people as there are rats, but I don't think.
cheryl hines
But you can have a problem when you live there.
joe rogan
I didn't live there.
I lived in New Rochelle, which was a suburb.
cheryl hines
That's nice.
joe rogan
Westchester.
I was a road comedian and I needed a parking spot.
I couldn't afford to park in New York City.
I was like, it's too hard.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was like, you know, whatever it was for a parking spot was like half my rent.
I was like, I can't afford that.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Also, I don't like it.
I don't like being stacked on top of people like that.
All my friends who live there, they're like, yeah, I don't even know my neighbors.
I'm like, there's a guy right across six feet away from you.
You don't even fucking know him.
That's kind of crazy.
unidentified
No.
cheryl hines
There are always people upstairs banging around.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Moving furniture.
joe rogan
Not interesting.
cheryl hines
Not your vibe.
joe rogan
So here it is.
For the big picture comparison, 8.3 million humans at 70 kilograms each are about 580,000 metric tons of human.
So rats at roughly 0.102% of human biomass in New York City, even though they're extremely visible.
Oh, so it's only like less than a percent?
Wait a minute.
cheryl hines
Well, they're tiny.
I mean, compared to.
joe rogan
So the number of rats.
Is the number of rats the same?
Is that what I'm getting wrong?
An estimated about 3 million rats in New York City, but there's like 10 million people.
cheryl hines
That's disgusting.
But I don't think 3 million rats are.
joe rogan
I don't think they really know.
cheryl hines
Yeah, how do you think?
joe rogan
I think they're probably underestimating it because underneath the city is where all the rats live.
There's no way they're doing an accurate count of all the rats.
cheryl hines
I feel like LA screwed up on.
joe rogan
This is what I screwed up on.
It's actually ants with the biomass of ants on Earth.
I think that's true.
I think the biomass of ants on Earth is roughly equal to the biomass of people.
cheryl hines
The things that are going on inside your head are insane.
joe rogan
That is a kooky number, though.
cheryl hines
That is a kooky number.
joe rogan
We might find out that's wrong, too.
I think it's right, though.
Is that what it is?
cheryl hines
But the rats in New York City are aggressive and huge.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
That's not true either.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Is that right?
What is that?
Get rid of that little source thing.
jamie vernon
I can't.
joe rogan
Okay.
jamie vernon
It's not showing.
unidentified
It's not blocking.
joe rogan
Oh, there it goes.
20 quadrillion?
I've never even seen that word.
cheryl hines
I'm either.
joe rogan
20 quadrillion individuals worldwide.
That's the number of ants.
Wow.
cheryl hines
I mean.
joe rogan
So it's 20% of human dry biomass.
What does that mean?
After you peed?
And more than all the wild birds and mammals combined.
That's crazy.
There's more weight from ants than all the mammals and birds combined.
That's crazy.
cheryl hines
That is crazy.
But I know.
joe rogan
That is crazy.
I have them in my backyard and they're leaf cutter ants.
No, they're cool.
cheryl hines
They're cute.
They carry all those little tiny.
joe rogan
It's weird.
It's like, how do you guys know?
How do you know to do that?
cheryl hines
And they work together.
joe rogan
They work together.
Yeah.
Well, they have the.
Have you ever seen what the leafcutter ant colonies look like under the surface?
cheryl hines
No.
joe rogan
So they take them and they, unfortunately, they do a genocide on the leafcutter ants for science, and they fill up their entire colony with cement.
And so they show what the structure is.
cheryl hines
You mean when they were studying?
joe rogan
Yes.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
But this is how they find out.
You have to kill everybody and turn them into concrete.
And so this enormous leafcutter ant colony that's underground, then they dig it up and only the cement is left.
And it's bananas.
It's so funny.
cheryl hines
These little tunnels.
joe rogan
They have fermentation tubes.
So they have an area where they put leaves in to ferment and then they have a tunnel that goes up to the surface so it can get air.
cheryl hines
That's crazy.
joe rogan
So this is it.
They fill up.
This is the leaf cutter ant colony.
Look at the ones on the outside going, ah, the fuck.
unidentified
My cousin's in there.
cheryl hines
They are freaking out.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're freaking out.
And so then they have to excavate and they dig out this area.
And it is absolutely massive.
cheryl hines
Oh, so these are, that's the concrete that.
joe rogan
Exactly.
So the concrete that's left is what the colony actually looks like underground.
It's enormous.
It's like the size of a house.
Like, look at that.
What's that to do with these stupid fucking ads that you can't even get rid of that cover a quarter of your screen?
But look, pause that real quick.
Look at that.
cheryl hines
That is crazy.
joe rogan
Bananas.
Absolutely bananas.
cheryl hines
But that's a good idea.
joe rogan
That a tiny little ant and all of his friends can make something like that.
cheryl hines
I like that they're all friends.
I think there are some that are like, I hate that ass.
joe rogan
Yeah, probably.
cheryl hines
So lazy.
joe rogan
He's lazy.
cheryl hines
We're all working our asses off and he's just over there like taking it easy.
joe rogan
Well, there's some ants where the female will find the male and they cut his legs off, his arms and legs off, and then carry him to the colony so that he could breed.
Find that ant is that?
Yeah, they find him and they cut his arms and legs off so he can't go anywhere.
cheryl hines
And he just says, wow.
Do you think he thinks it's an honor?
joe rogan
I don't think he thinks.
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
How can he?
cheryl hines
I don't know.
joe rogan
I think they're almost like little robots.
cheryl hines
It seems like they are working together and coming up with plans and landscapes.
joe rogan
But the thing is, this is a universal thing.
This is what's really weird.
Like here we are in Texas, but there's probably leafcutter ants right now in Florida.
There's probably leafcutter ants right now all over the world.
And they're all doing a similar thing underground.
cheryl hines
But leafcutter, so they're completely different than, say, red ants.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of different kinds of ants, but the thing that differentiates leafcutter ants is that they go to trees, they chop off their leaves, they take these little pieces of it, and then they carry it back into their leafcutter ant colony.
And then they have all these places where they store the leaves, and the leaves ferment, and they kind of rot, and then they have air pipes that go up to the surface.
It's super, super complex.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
And it just makes you think, like, how do they know to make this chamber and then a passageway to the chamber?
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
And how do they all know?
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
All over the world.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
It's very weird.
It's a very weird thing that they do.
But I have them in my yard and I just sit there and watch them.
jamie vernon
I can only find stuff about them amputating the limbs for saving their lives, not breeding.
joe rogan
No, it was a specific kind of thing.
jamie vernon
I typed it in four different times.
All I can get was that queen ants will amputate their wings afterwards, but I didn't see anything about cutting off a male's limbs and dragging them for breeding.
It's just they all do it to address wounds.
joe rogan
I wish I could remember what it was.
It was a specific kind of ant.
unidentified
I'm going to get a ruthless world of insects.
joe rogan
We're lucky they're little.
cheryl hines
Because they're smart.
Well, you don't think they think.
You think they think they've got some sort of activity.
joe rogan
I think they have activity, but I think they're operating on a program.
cheryl hines
They don't have feelings.
joe rogan
I don't think they have any feelings.
No, I definitely don't think they have feelings.
I mean, if a praying mantis was the size of a German shepherd, we'd have a real problem.
cheryl hines
Because they're vicious.
joe rogan
100%.
You wouldn't be able to get away from them.
cheryl hines
Do you think they have feelings?
joe rogan
I don't think so.
I think they're the scariest life form to me.
cheryl hines
Why?
joe rogan
Because they're so strong for their size.
They're way, way, way – like you can't even – like I've seen praying mantis snatch hummingbirds off of a bird feeder and kill them.
cheryl hines
And the serious?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They wait on a bird feeder.
They sit there like this, and they just wait.
cheryl hines
And they don't move.
joe rogan
They don't move.
And the hummingbird doesn't recognize them.
The hummingbird comes over, eats out of the bird feeder, and just snatches them.
And the bird's way bigger than the mantis.
And the mantis can hold on to the hummingbird.
cheryl hines
Where did it take it?
Where did it take it?
joe rogan
Kill and eat it right there.
cheryl hines
Really?
unidentified
Sure.
cheryl hines
But aren't they small?
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
That's why we're lucky that they're really small.
Because if they were the size of like a dog, they would 100% be able to kill you.
Just like that monkey is super strong.
Well, if a mantis is the size of that monkey, the monkey would have no chance.
That mantis would just snatch it and just start eating it.
unidentified
That's a good point.
cheryl hines
Because that guy, because a monkey must look at a man and think that guy is bigger than me, but I don't care.
I'm going for it.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, I don't think they have any respect for people.
I think their interactions with people are that people are soft and that they're scared of them.
And so that's how.
cheryl hines
But what's the monkey going to do with the scalp?
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
See, look at that mantis.
See him sitting there?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
The hummingbird doesn't know what's going on.
He's just motionless.
And so as the hummingbird gets close, tries to get a little water.
cheryl hines
Oh, no.
joe rogan
And watch how it snatches it to it so fast.
Why is it right there?
Bang.
Gotcha.
cheryl hines
Oh.
joe rogan
Look at the size of the bird.
I mean, the body mass of the bird has got to be a lot more than the mantis.
And the mantis is just holding on to it definitively.
Like it has no chance.
Oh, the guy knocked it loose.
What a bitch.
unidentified
That is.
joe rogan
What nature happened, bro?
cheryl hines
So crazy.
joe rogan
Really crazy.
It just gets it.
So there's other ones where you see the mantis like hanging on and eating it.
They're incredible little creatures.
cheryl hines
Is that what they mostly eat?
It's hummingbirds?
joe rogan
No, they eat all kinds of stuff.
But this one is just sitting there eating a hummingbird.
unidentified
Ew.
joe rogan
The other weird thing is the amount that they can eat.
cheryl hines
Yeah, that's why it looks like a tiny twig.
joe rogan
Exactly.
cheryl hines
Oh, how can it eat a hummingbird?
joe rogan
There's a video.
Dire Wolves and Jurassic Park 00:08:00
joe rogan
Well, there's one Instagram page that I follow that's just mantises eating a bunch of different bugs.
cheryl hines
I like it.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
unidentified
I follow it.
cheryl hines
Is it relaxing or is it just fascinating?
It's just like gets your mind off of politics.
joe rogan
Just weird.
Weird to watch this creature, and it eats a roach that's like bigger than it.
And it eats the whole thing.
This guy just gets this roach.
Look at the size of that roach.
He's just going to chew through that entire roach.
And that sucker's still alive for the beginning.
He just eats his head, and then he stops being alive, and then he just goes right through him.
Like, look at this.
This is nuts.
cheryl hines
And then do you think it doesn't eat again for a long time, like snake?
joe rogan
Probably.
Probably doesn't have to.
unidentified
Ew.
joe rogan
Just look at it.
Eat its legs.
And it keeps going and it eats the entire thing.
Like, there's nothing left of that roach.
And that roach is as big as him.
Like, where'd it go?
How are you doing that?
cheryl hines
I don't know.
joe rogan
You ever see a fat praying mantis?
No, they don't exist.
cheryl hines
I hardly see them.
Oh, but I haven't been looking.
joe rogan
Look, there's the page.
jamie vernon
Yeah, you have a highlights reel on it.
cheryl hines
You have a highlights reel.
joe rogan
That's hilarious.
It's called Cryptic Mantis.
jamie vernon
It's just all them eating.
joe rogan
Is that what the name of it is?
What is it?
Cryptic.
Yeah, Cryptic with a K mantis.
cheryl hines
And their eyeballs are crazy.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a weird animal.
I mean, if that insect was big, it would be a real problem.
So look, he's like dangling that roach in front of it and just snatches it.
cheryl hines
Ooh.
joe rogan
I mean, that's like you eating a poodle.
It's crazy.
It just eats the whole thing in one second.
unidentified
The whole thing.
The whole poodle.
joe rogan
The nose, the head, eyeballs, the tail, everything.
It just eats everything.
cheryl hines
Ew.
joe rogan
Yeah, but that exists in nature.
I mean, we're playing a totally different game.
You know, our game is soft.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
jamie vernon
Yeah, look at that thing.
joe rogan
Yeah.
jamie vernon
A Peruvian dragon mantis.
joe rogan
Yeah, imagine that was like big.
Imagine that that thing was like the size of a giraffe.
It'd be a giant problem.
It just runs into a city and eats everybody.
cheryl hines
Sounds like a movie.
joe rogan
Does.
cheryl hines
Oh.
joe rogan
That's how actresses think.
cheryl hines
That sounds like a great movie.
I could be the scientist.
The mantis gets stuck in a tube with a guy's head.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Something like that.
joe rogan
Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Like the fly.
Remember that Jeff Goldblue movie?
unidentified
Of course.
joe rogan
That movie was great.
unidentified
Of course.
joe rogan
And that was a remake of an earlier one.
There was an earlier The Fly movie, which was a lot weirder.
cheryl hines
Really?
joe rogan
Well, it was weird for the time because the guy had like a weird costume on, like, a fly head on, but like a person's body.
But the fly was cool because you see Jeff Goldblum, like that's the original fly.
Oh, say like a one human hand, one fly hand.
But the goldbloom one was great.
cheryl hines
No, I love Jeff Goldblum.
joe rogan
So this guy just had like a mask on.
He's like a regular dude with a mask.
I'm the fly.
cheryl hines
You know, but I got a hand.
joe rogan
The goldbloom one was cool because you see like him start to slowly turn mad.
unidentified
Yes, and his mannerisms and he was a great weird spike start poking out of his skin.
joe rogan
He's like, what is this?
He didn't realize that a fly had gotten in there with him and they'd matched DNA.
cheryl hines
Jeff Goldblum's great.
joe rogan
Oh, he's great.
He's, yeah.
cheryl hines
He's very, he's very, very intense and at the same time, very likable.
joe rogan
Yeah, fun, jolly.
cheryl hines
Tell me about you.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Tell me what makes Cheryl work.
joe rogan
Well, him and Jurassic Park really helped make that movie.
Like the rational scientist that was like, okay, what have you done?
You know?
Because you could do it.
You never decided whether you should do it.
cheryl hines
You know, you know, yeah, he's always thinking.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Not judging, not freaking out.
joe rogan
Well, definitely sort of judging.
But it was just that, like, yeah, there should be a fucking scientist that says, what are you doing?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, what are you doing?
cheryl hines
Are you sure you should be doing?
joe rogan
Yeah, these don't belong here.
These, these are from a time where we weren't around.
You shouldn't bring them here.
We can't compete with them.
If it wasn't for that big rock that hit the Yucatan, we probably would have never become people because they would have been around.
cheryl hines
I never saw Jurassic Park.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
What?
unidentified
How?
joe rogan
How'd you avoid that movie?
It's one of the greatest movies of all time.
cheryl hines
No, it didn't sound good to me.
Like dinosaurs.
joe rogan
It's so good.
It's such a good movie.
It's such a good movie, too, because it was like one of the first movies that used CGI, but they did it really well.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And the thing about CGI with dinosaurs is it's so different than CGI with like, do you remember I Am Legend?
The Will Smith movie?
Never saw that one?
unidentified
No.
cheryl hines
Is it science fiction?
joe rogan
Yes.
cheryl hines
I don't watch science fiction.
joe rogan
It's a zombie movie, essentially.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like a disease sweeps over the, but in that movie, there's a there's CGI lions in New York City, and they look so vague.
They look bad.
cheryl hines
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah, because what was that?
cheryl hines
That was like 2010.
joe rogan
Was it even?
I feel like it was earlier than that.
When was I Am Legend?
jamie vernon
Seven.
joe rogan
2007?
cheryl hines
Okay, but go ahead.
You were going to say why.
joe rogan
Because you know what a lion looks like.
You don't really know what a dinosaur looks like.
So your brain doesn't register that.
Oh, that looks fake.
cheryl hines
Right, right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So when you see the T-Rex, when he comes over the fence, and also the way they shot it, like Spielberg is a genius.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
The way they shot it at night, where it's kind of like, you know, in the jungle, so it's like partially obscured.
You ever seen the scene where the T-Rex emerges for the first time when the kids are in the car?
Oh, you need to see this.
cheryl hines
I have so many things to look up tonight.
I have so many rabbit holes to go down.
joe rogan
How have you not seen this movie?
cheryl hines
I don't know.
joe rogan
The original Jurassic Park is one of my favorite movies ever.
cheryl hines
Okay, I love it.
unidentified
I love it.
cheryl hines
I did have to watch it.
joe rogan
I loved it because for me, it's a real potential possibility.
I'm friends with the guys over at Colossal.
Those are the guys that brought back the dire wolf.
Like, they have actual dire wolves now.
cheryl hines
What is a dire wolf?
joe rogan
A dire wolf is an extinct breed of wolf.
And I know there's geneticists out there that are freaking out.
That's not a dire wolf.
It's not.
What they've done is just taken the characteristics of a dire wolf and recreated it.
cheryl hines
Are they small?
Are they like the dark?
They're very big.
joe rogan
They're bigger than a regular wolf.
And they're weird looking.
Like they have a mane and they're all white.
Like they're really cool looking.
cheryl hines
Yeah, and they walk on our all fours.
unidentified
Oh, yeah, dumb question.
cheryl hines
Of course.
Well, now I'm thinking about your werewolf in London.
joe rogan
Oh, he walks on all fours too.
Does he's from American werewolf in London?
cheryl hines
But he can't.
joe rogan
No, that's a dire wolf.
So that's the colossal guys.
Yeah, they're really interesting.
It's really interesting because you see them.
cheryl hines
Wow, it's really pretty.
joe rogan
And when I saw them, it was in the summertime and they apparently were about six months old and they're going to get a lot larger.
cheryl hines
Oh, wait, so they came back from extinction as well?
joe rogan
Yeah, they brought them back from extinction through genetic engineering.
They have dire wolf DNA.
They have dire wolf DNA.
They mixed it with gray wolf DNA.
I don't know how they did it.
They could tell me.
I'll forget five minutes later.
But whatever it is, that's a different thing that ever existed before since the dire wolves went extinct.
cheryl hines
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So my fear is that these assholes, not these guys, but that someone, some scientific asshole, will make a Jurassic Park.
Will say, hey, you know, we found an island that we can buy that's, you know, 50,000 square acres or whatever it is.
And we're going to take and put a few dinosaurs on this island and make it so that people can go visit it.
Like, that's possible.
People could do that.
Dinosaurs vs. AI 00:12:17
cheryl hines
Well, it sounds possible, but it doesn't sound worse than like AI things that could be done on your computer and to our brains.
joe rogan
Like, like you're more afraid of AI than you are of dinosaurs.
That's rational because AI is more likely.
cheryl hines
Yeah, because if somebody said, hey, you could go visit this island that has dinosaurs, at least I'd have a choice.
And I'd be like, no, thanks.
But like, I will sometimes, if you're just talking about a poncho, a poncho?
Yeah.
Like a like you get like a poncho that, you know, like a little blanket that has a hole in it.
joe rogan
Got it.
cheryl hines
It's a word that doesn't come up much.
But when it came up, I'm just talking to my friend about a poncho.
And then all of a sudden on my phone, they're like, lots of ads.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So it's that's wonder if I'm going to get some now.
cheryl hines
You are.
joe rogan
Poncho ads.
cheryl hines
You're going to get some poncho ads.
joe rogan
I've never had a poncho ad.
If I get one right now, I'll know.
cheryl hines
Oh, yeah.
No.
You are, we're all dialed in somehow.
joe rogan
Well, that's for sure.
cheryl hines
So I would rather have, I would rather have, I would rather be running away from a I would rather die from being squashed by a dinosaur than just go crazy from thoughts of things that have been put into my head from AI.
Does that make sense?
joe rogan
Sort of.
I don't want to die either way.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
I don't want to die.
cheryl hines
Well, if you had to choose.
joe rogan
I don't want to die by dinosaur.
cheryl hines
If you had to choose one or the other.
joe rogan
I really don't think either one is preferable.
I think the dinosaur is more unlikely.
The AI one seems very possible.
There's not a real good roadmap that I've seen where AI is not completely disruptive in every aspect of our life.
And the only people that do provide that roadmap seem to be profiting off of AI.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, some people think it's going to increase productivity.
Like Elon thinks it's going to increase productivity to the point where we'll have no one will have to work anymore and you'll have what they call universal high income.
That's what he's calling it.
But then you have this real problem of what do people do with their time?
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
Like how do so many people really identify with whatever they do as a job.
cheryl hines
Right.
Right.
And it gives you a sense of purpose, right?
Most people need a sense of purpose to be have a to feel happy.
joe rogan
They also like providing for themselves.
Like people like the fact that you work all week, you come home, you get your paycheck, and you know, now you can go to the restaurant, and it's all your money.
You bought it, you worked hard, and now, you know, you bought whatever you bought.
Like, you paid for it, a poncho.
cheryl hines
You paid for it with your labor.
joe rogan
People like being good at something, right?
If you're the guy that, you know, if there's something going on, you need something fixed, and you go to Henry.
Like, Henry loves the fact that Cheryl calls him up because she knows that he knows how to fix things.
Yeah.
What do we do with Henry when Henry loses his, like, we say, your job's useless.
You're basically like a guy who owns Blockbuster Video.
cheryl hines
Well, is that like very, very wealthy people that are born into money that don't have to work, that don't have to?
joe rogan
That's even worse, right?
Because that's like very wealthy people that are born into money have never had to prove themselves.
They've always been more special than everybody else.
If everybody has universal high income, that won't be a unique thing.
It'll be basic.
So optimistically, I would say the optimistic take on it is if that was the case, the real positive aspect is you wouldn't have to work for your basic needs.
And what you could decide to do instead is pursue something that you're really interested in.
Like maybe.
cheryl hines
Become an expert in something.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Or study a bunch of different languages all day.
cheryl hines
But will people?
joe rogan
Some people will.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
But I think that's always the case.
cheryl hines
That's true.
joe rogan
Some people would take advantage of a situation and like some people during COVID.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
They said, okay, some people just became alcoholics and they lost everything.
Some people said, I'm going to start a side business.
I'm going to start an online business because an online business, they can't shut down during a pandemic.
And a lot of people become very profitable because of that.
It's like, why do we need to just work all day?
If you're a laborer, is that really the only use of your time?
Like if you're doing it for food, I get it.
You're doing it for housing.
I get it.
It's a good job.
It's a solid, honest way to make a living.
But if you don't have to do that anymore, and then you just get money from the government and from whatever income AI is generating, wouldn't you rather play soccer or go do this or whatever your thing is?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Painting, whatever your thing is.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
You know, you could find anything.
You could find a thing that gives you meaning other than just your work.
cheryl hines
Right.
Because if you're working in a factory and you're just putting the dial on the box, it's not fulfilling and you're not going anywhere and you're not doing anything.
joe rogan
That stuff has only been around for a while, like a small amount of time.
Like being a worker in a factory or an office.
How long has that even been around?
The idea that we can't exist without that being around is crazy.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because for thousands and thousands of years, there was no money.
People just like hunted and fished and traded things and started raising animals.
There's no money.
You basically just tried to stay alive by gathering food.
cheryl hines
So do you think that if nobody had to work, that we could do without money altogether?
joe rogan
That money could disappear and then that's a scary thing because someone's going to have it.
There's going to be resources.
cheryl hines
But then, if there's no value to it.
joe rogan
Yeah, but there's always going to be value.
Like this is the scariest thing.
cheryl hines
From country to country or worldwide or everything.
joe rogan
The control of resources.
Resources are always going to be valuable.
It's always going to be valuable to have oil.
If you have oil, you can do so many things.
You could make gasoline.
You could power things.
You make plastics.
Everything comes out of oil.
Everything is petroleum-based.
Even your medicine is petroleum-based.
cheryl hines
Yeah, but if nobody was paying you to make it.
joe rogan
So everything's free.
That's the idea?
How is that possible?
Because then no one would want to make a Ferrari.
Because the only reason why you would make a Ferrari is because it's hard to get, so it costs a lot of money.
cheryl hines
Well, if AI is taking over and taking all of those jobs, When the idea is that nobody's going to have to work.
Well, if nobody has to work, then the cars are still being made, right?
joe rogan
Maybe.
Maybe they decide how many cars get made and how many people can have a car.
cheryl hines
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
This is the way they need a car.
joe rogan
Like Oxford, England just established this new, they're doing this thing called like 15 Minute Cities.
We have like an area where you're allowed to travel to.
And if you decide to travel outside of that area, you get a certain amount of them per year.
cheryl hines
Wait, you get a certain amount of what?
joe rogan
Travel passes to leave your area.
jamie vernon
It was a congestion zone.
joe rogan
Okay.
jamie vernon
Whatever.
I'm just, that's what it was.
joe rogan
You call it whatever you want, but whatever it is, it's the government telling you you can't leave an area.
And if you leave that area, it costs you money.
So it costs you the equivalent of like $100 a day to leave this area.
cheryl hines
Wow.
joe rogan
If you get over a certain number of them.
jamie vernon
It's similar to what they did in New York City.
However, they stopped it in New York, remember?
joe rogan
Yeah, well, it's crazy.
That's why they stopped it because this is the beginning of a terrible trend.
So what this is, is the beginning of them telling you where you can go and how often you can go.
And this is the government doing it.
And the temporary congestion charge.
Bullshit.
They've been proposing stiff like this.
It's bullshit.
cheryl hines
They've been proposing that they want to do it.
joe rogan
They want to control people.
They want to be able to tell you where you can and can't go.
The more they can put restrictions on you, the more they can pass laws that they can profit from.
The more they can benefit from whatever control they have over you.
The more they can tighten down on it.
And England's a great place to do this because they've already gotten things passed through in England.
Like England doesn't have jury trials anymore, except for like murder and rape and a few other things.
All it's a judge.
cheryl hines
So one person.
joe rogan
All the people that are getting arrested for social media abuses.
cheryl hines
It's just one person deciding.
joe rogan
No, it's different judges.
It's wherever you get brought up, wherever you get arrested for.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
They arrested 12,000 judge.
One judge, yes.
cheryl hines
Just deciding their fate.
joe rogan
Right.
cheryl hines
Whether they like it or not.
joe rogan
Without a doubt, they're going to go with whatever the government wants.
And they've arrested 12,000 people over the last year for social media posts, just in England.
cheryl hines
I know, that's intense.
joe rogan
So that's the place where they're, oh, it's a congestion zone.
unidentified
Fuck off.
jamie vernon
I asked you last week, what we don't know, because we're not there.
People will get bussed into that area already because it's already congested as fuck.
joe rogan
I don't care.
I don't care what's going on.
That's Bangladesh, okay?
That's New York City.
That's a lot of places.
That's L.A.
Yeah.
You don't get to control whether or not people can leave an area.
I understand.
Period.
It doesn't matter what you call it.
jamie vernon
But this was because they closed the road.
joe rogan
I don't care.
jamie vernon
They closed the road temporarily, and so they had to put up some.
joe rogan
It's a terrible precedent.
It's like what they did with COVID.
They shut down this two weeks to stop the spread.
And what happened?
It lasted a year and a half in L.A. Like, it's not, you don't give them that kind of control.
You can't have ever the control to tell people whether they can or can't leave an area.
Fuck off.
That's crazy.
cheryl hines
They're houses.
But for a while, like you weren't even allowed to go outside.
So don't go outside.
joe rogan
Dip shit mayor who is saying, usually snitches get stitches, but now they get rewards.
Do you remember that?
In L.A., they were telling you to turn your neighbors off.
cheryl hines
No, I don't remember it in L.A., but I remember it in other states.
joe rogan
In L.A.
cheryl hines
The Mayor.
joe rogan
What was that Cook's name?
It was the mayor of L.A.
He was, he thought he was on the right side of everything until Black Lives Matter started protesting outside his house every day for like a month.
Garcetti.
cheryl hines
Oh, Garcetti.
joe rogan
That creep.
That guy, he find that thing, that snitches usually get stitches, but now they get rewards.
Like, literally said that.
cheryl hines
That is so crazy.
joe rogan
Snitches.
Snitching on your neighbor for having too many people over.
cheryl hines
That is so crazy.
joe rogan
People were exactly five feet apart from each other.
eric garcetti
If you've observed recurring violations of the safer at home order, please continue to let us know at coronavirus.lacity.org slash business violation.
unidentified
You know the old expression about snitches.
eric garcetti
Well, in this case, snitches get rewards.
We want to thank you for turning folks in and making sure we are all safe.
joe rogan
It would be cool if that lady who was doing sign language is just faking it.
Sometimes nobody knows.
cheryl hines
He's still going after he's still talking.
He's done talking and she's just like, hey, over here.
joe rogan
Well, nobody, you know, very few people know American Sign Language, so she could have been faking it.
Like a bunch of people have been faking it before and they got caught.
cheryl hines
No.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, yeah.
There was a guy next to Obama when Obama was giving a speech once, and this guy was completely making it up.
cheryl hines
Come on.
joe rogan
Con man.
cheryl hines
Come on.
joe rogan
He tricked himself into being three feet from Obama.
No security screening.
cheryl hines
Just nobody knows how to validate.
joe rogan
I don't believe it was America.
I think it was somewhere else.
cheryl hines
Oh, my God.
I took a break.
joe rogan
So they let this guy on stage, and you can tell he's just making things up.
Oh, he's like doing this.
cheryl hines
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
He's like fake sign language.
unidentified
You've never seen this?
cheryl hines
No.
joe rogan
Find the guy's fake sign language with Obama.
cheryl hines
How did they, did he get, did he get busted during the speech?
joe rogan
Sign language people, this guy right here.
So this guy on the right, or yeah, that guy?
He's completely making shit up.
So wait for Obama to get.
So this is the Mandela memorial.
When does Obama come out?
There's one with Obama next to the guy.
jamie vernon
Yeah, my name is.
joe rogan
So that was what it was.
So that's the guy.
See, he's leaving right next to him.
cheryl hines
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
The guy was like completely faking sign language.
Absurd Shave Tactics 00:09:11
joe rogan
He's just a kook.
He was like, I can do it.
Yeah, I'm good at it.
Let me up there.
cheryl hines
That is crazy.
joe rogan
People are nuts.
cheryl hines
People are nuts.
joe rogan
You should know that.
As much as anybody.
cheryl hines
Listen, I've learned it over and over again.
And they're even nuttier at a level that I didn't know.
joe rogan
What was the big turning point for you?
Was it just being attached to Bobby and watching all that?
cheryl hines
It was Bobby running for president.
It was so crazy.
I mean, I really got a crash course in elections.
And it is the craziest shit goes on.
And everybody is, that's all they think about.
You know, the people that are involved, they get up in the morning.
How can I fuck this guy over?
I'm going to say, and they have these people that their only job is to start a rumor, is to say something, put something in the press that doesn't matter if it's true or not.
If somebody else picks it up, they celebrate for the whole day.
And it's like that story, whatever it was, the thing that they said gets picked up.
That is like a day of celebration.
It's a celebration from the other camps.
And then it's like your camp is now trying to figure out what to do about that or what kind of damage it's going to do.
And is it worth even fighting?
Or is it better to just let it wither on the vine?
It's just all day, every day, people are trying to find the craziest, craziest.
Doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter if it's about, certainly if it's about politics or not.
It's more exciting if it's something personal.
Oh, he's wearing lifts in his boots.
Oh, he's, and it's just.
joe rogan
But that is an important thing.
unidentified
If someone's wearing lifts in their boots, like, hey, How are you going to govern this country?
joe rogan
It's so tall.
unidentified
Out of nowhere.
cheryl hines
It is absurd.
It's absurd.
joe rogan
It's absurd.
It's a very behavior.
cheryl hines
Well, who gives a shit?
You can wear heels.
joe rogan
Right.
But if a man does it and he's lying about it, I think that as a short.
cheryl hines
So did anybody ask?
joe rogan
I think they did.
I think they asked.
You're talking about homeboy from Florida.
Yeah, I think they asked and he denied it.
But it was pretty clear.
There was like one podcast or one talk show, one of those late night shows where he walked out and I was like, why?
You're walking like a horse.
Like, you're clearly on your tippy toes.
This is crazy.
You've added like five inches to your height.
This is bananas and it's all inside your boots.
cheryl hines
And then that's what everybody's talking about.
joe rogan
Well, don't do that.
Don't do that.
No one's going to talk.
That's like a self-inflicted wound.
cheryl hines
But then it's like, oh, well, he's too short to govern the country.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
If people think that, that's on that.
cheryl hines
Oh, people are crazy.
joe rogan
Yeah, but they're not going to think you're taller than you really are.
Like, they've seen you for fucking decades.
He's been in the public eye forever and then all of a sudden he gains four inches.
Everybody's like, what's going on?
Like, people know.
You can't, they're scrutinizing everything.
You know, you can't pull the wool over their eyes that hard.
But it also, it shows like this weird thing where you're so worried about what people think about you that you're willing to wear lifts in your shoes.
And again, I say this as a short man.
You know, it's like, it's important.
cheryl hines
Like, you just be authentic.
Because you're not being authentic.
joe rogan
That's who you are.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're not going to change people's opinion of you if you wear a fucking stilt.
cheryl hines
But what does it matter?
Like, if a guy had a toupee and he was running for president, would you be like, nah, no.
Because it might make him feel better to fucking.
joe rogan
Fuck your feelings.
Take that fucking wig off.
cheryl hines
You should run a campaign.
joe rogan
Especially if you're wearing a wig and all of a sudden you put it on and you expect me to ignore it.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
If you're like bald forever and then all of a sudden you win.
cheryl hines
And the day that you start wearing it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
There must be a day in somebody's life when it's like, I'm just going to go for it and hope nobody.
joe rogan
Well, there's a bunch of like really smart people who have them on, which is really weird.
It's like, how can you be so smart and you don't know that that thing on your head is ridiculous?
Like you were bald and now you're not.
And I'm supposed to just go, hey, congratulations on growing all your hair back.
This is fucking nuts.
cheryl hines
So you find it so distracting.
joe rogan
No, I just find it a character flaw.
cheryl hines
Ah, I see, I see.
joe rogan
Right?
It's like you're a 60-year-old man and you're concerned with looking attractive at this stage of your life?
Like, come on.
cheryl hines
Let it go.
joe rogan
This is a crazy thing.
cheryl hines
Whatever was going to happen should have already happened.
And at this point.
joe rogan
This is a crazy thing to concentrate on, especially if you want to be taken seriously.
Like you should.
cheryl hines
But so what about a guy in his that's 25 that's wearing a cake?
joe rogan
It's that.
Look, it's like male hair loss is devastating people talking about.
Again, I was a bald guy.
Yeah, I got hair transplants.
I did the whole thing.
I tried monoxidal and all the other different things.
It's like it's you don't have any control over it.
And apparently now, like, supposedly UCLA has a new remedy that just grows your hair back.
And it's in tests right now.
And they're going to be able to put it on your hair.
It's probably going to make a trillion dollars.
cheryl hines
Is it that they, is it like a helmet that you put on your hands?
joe rogan
No, no, no.
It's like some kind of medication that you topically apply and it grows hair, grows hair on mice.
And apparently it's going to work.
I mean, it's kind of amazing that they haven't cracked that code yet.
But one day they will.
And if the UCLA thing, then the wig business goes out of business.
cheryl hines
Then would you take it?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
Even if I did, I would shave my head.
cheryl hines
Why?
joe rogan
100%.
I love it.
I love having a shave head.
I love not having to talk to a barber.
I don't give a shit what I look like.
cheryl hines
I'd rather shave your head than have a meaningless conversation for 10 minutes.
joe rogan
100%.
cheryl hines
Do you shave it every day?
Like every day?
joe rogan
No, I shave it every couple.
I shaved it this morning, but I shave it every couple days.
But if you're not.
cheryl hines
So if I said, if you take this tomorrow, you'll have a full head of hair.
You'd be like, nothing.
joe rogan
Maybe I would take it and then just buzz that down and have it really short.
But I would have it.
cheryl hines
So you know it's there.
joe rogan
Show everybody.
unidentified
Look, I got my hair back.
joe rogan
If I wanted to, I'm going to.
cheryl hines
I can do it if I wanted to.
I don't know how to do it.
I don't know.
unidentified
But I could.
joe rogan
But I used to love when I had a full head of hair.
I used to love having a crew cut.
It was my favorite thing.
cheryl hines
Wow, interesting.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I just love, like, I love the feeling of it, like when you rub it and you get all the stubble up there like that.
And I just don't want to, I don't want to think about it.
It's texture.
I don't have that.
cheryl hines
That's it.
joe rogan
But when I was in television, I thought about it.
I was like, I can't lose my hair.
That's why I got a hair transplant.
I was like, I'm starting to make money.
cheryl hines
But that didn't work or you didn't like it?
joe rogan
It works for a little while.
But the way I describe it, I was like, you take, it's like you take people from a neighborhood where everybody's really healthy and you move them to a neighborhood where everyone's dying.
So all your neighbors die.
So all the other hair that was supposed to fall out, that falls out.
cheryl hines
That's falling out.
joe rogan
And the only stuff that's left is the stuff you put there.
And it looks kind of ratty and sparse.
cheryl hines
What do you take it from the back?
joe rogan
Yeah, they take it from the back here and then you put it to the top.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
A lot of guys go to Turkey now.
cheryl hines
I know.
joe rogan
And they do it and they get their whole head redone.
But sometimes you get a weird hairline where it's like a little too low and crazy.
It's a little too flat and weird.
And you're like, what's going on with your hair?
cheryl hines
That's hard.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Because how do you know?
Because you're under, you're under.
joe rogan
Well, you probably think it's a good idea, and the doctor thinks it's a good idea, and he convinces you.
You're like, it's going to look good.
He's like, it's going to look amazing.
And next thing you look at a wolfman.
cheryl hines
Are you out completely when you have that?
No.
The doctor's talking to you and it's like, I'm going to put one here.
joe rogan
They don't even talk to you.
You could watch a movie or something like that.
You just sit there and chill.
There's videos of guys doing it online.
cheryl hines
You know I'm not going to watch it.
joe rogan
You can just pull the hairs out and stick them in the little holes.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
I wonder why more women don't do it.
joe rogan
Women do it.
When women start losing their hair?
Yeah.
Quite a few of their patients are women.
Oh, wow.
Because maybe they have alopecia or some more.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They can't grow it back.
So they transplant it.
cheryl hines
They do.
And you're okay with that.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm okay with women wearing wigs, too.
cheryl hines
You just don't like men wearing wigs.
unidentified
Nope.
joe rogan
I don't like it.
I don't like men wearing wigs.
I don't like men wearing lipstick either.
Unless you're a singer or someone freaky, some non-binary person.
cheryl hines
But you don't want the guy at the grocery store checking you out.
joe rogan
Well, I don't care.
cheryl hines
It's okay.
joe rogan
You might be a weirdo.
You know, you're allowed to be a weirdo.
I don't mind anymore.
But if you want me, you want to be like a, if we're all hanging out and we're going to go out to dinner and you show up wearing lipstick and eyeshadow, hey, Bob.
What the fuck's going on with your face?
Like, if you don't think I'm going to make fun of that, you're crazy.
cheryl hines
Yeah, okay.
So you just make fun of him all night, but you're not so mad that you're not going to go out with him.
joe rogan
I mean, it's just, it's a nutty choice.
But it's like, I wouldn't want you being the treasurer of the United States fucking lipstick on.
Legal Risks and Group Think 00:15:23
joe rogan
It's like, you remember that guy that was working in the Biden administration?
That was a man with lipstick and a shaved head, and he was stealing all the women's clothes.
He was stealing women's clothes from the airport.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's what I'm talking about.
cheryl hines
I mean, listen, that's a crazy person.
There were few.
joe rogan
There was a few.
They were hiring them just because they were weird.
They were like, this is going to make us look woke.
We're going to hire all the right people.
It's going to be very inclusive.
Okay, great.
You're hiring mentally ill people.
You're hiring your man who likes to steal women's clothes from the airport.
Yeah, and you're putting him in charge of nuclear energy.
cheryl hines
I mean, that is.
Okay, so this goes back to politics, right?
She was like, so you watch that, and then the next election, it's a new group of people, and they're weird.
joe rogan
Right.
cheryl hines
So it's not like just one side is.
joe rogan
Oh, no, no, no.
No, I don't think, I think that's a big trap to think that it's only the Republicans or only the Democrats that are weird.
No, everybody who wants to do that, the vast majority of them are unhinged because that is not a normal job.
unidentified
They're not good at it.
That's the other thing.
joe rogan
They're not good at talking.
They're not good at public speaking.
Even the best ones are like, that's why when a guy like Obama or a guy like Clinton comes along, like, holy shit, or Trump.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
It's so good at like talking to large groups of people and being themselves.
So when someone's not good at that, it's like glaringly obvious because most people who are good at that kind of stuff, they don't want that job.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
That job's horrible.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
That job is crazy.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Job's nuts.
cheryl hines
But then do you have to be good at talking?
joe rogan
You do.
You do because it's part of the campaign trail.
cheryl hines
Well, right.
That's the other thing, too.
It's like running for something, being part of a campaign is so different than actually doing it.
Yeah.
They're completely different.
It's like auditioning.
It's so much like auditioning.
joe rogan
But it's completely different.
cheryl hines
It's a different.
It's a completely different job.
joe rogan
Different skill set.
Yeah.
cheryl hines
So it's like, yeah.
joe rogan
At least auditioning, you actually acting in the room.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, when you're running for president, you're not running for president in front of everybody.
This is how I'm going to do it.
You're going to pretend to be my chief of staff.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're going to be the Secretary of Defense.
And I'm going to put on a play.
So I'm going to show you how I would handle it if I ran across the line.
cheryl hines
I would rather that.
I would like to see a campaign like that where it's just a little mini play.
joe rogan
A little mini play.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
A crisis situation.
Yes.
joe rogan
A little Cuban missile crisis right in front of everybody's eyes.
cheryl hines
And just to see how everyone would handle it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That's well, that's why when people pretend to be a president in a film, people go, you know what?
He would be a great president.
Like, people do that all the time.
cheryl hines
That's true.
joe rogan
That's how Zelensky became the president of Ukraine.
cheryl hines
Because he was a good actor.
joe rogan
He was an actor as a president in a TV show.
And that's why everybody liked him.
Did you know that?
cheryl hines
I knew that he was an actor, but I didn't know he was an I didn't know he was playing the president.
joe rogan
He was playing the president.
He was a comedian.
And he was playing the president in a television show.
And people loved it.
And they're like, he should be the real president.
Like, that's how goofy people are.
cheryl hines
Yeah, that could definitely happen in this country, don't you think?
joe rogan
100%.
cheryl hines
All the people that have played the president, people will be like, yeah, that guy could definitely do it.
joe rogan
Martin Sheen?
cheryl hines
Martin Sheen.
joe rogan
100%.
cheryl hines
People would say, yeah.
joe rogan
He could probably be the president right now if he wanted to.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, if someone like that, like a top-notch actor, really wanted a campaign, everybody would be fucked.
Except for they just tear him apart and attack him and make up a bunch of stuff about him and his family and blah, blah, blah.
cheryl hines
And actors are, they have thinner skin than politicians.
joe rogan
Some of them do, yeah.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Most of them.
cheryl hines
Most of them.
As an actor, you're putting yourself out there all the time and you feel insecure.
People are, one person doesn't like you or says that you're horrible, then it's like, oh my God.
But politicians are like, what else you got?
That's it.
joe rogan
Well, they're just used to being full shit.
They live in it.
Well, they're comfortable in it.
cheryl hines
I think that there are some politicians that are true, that are authentic and truly working to make the country better.
That is one thing that I've seen.
joe rogan
I think there are people on death row that are innocent.
cheryl hines
They're just so few and far between.
joe rogan
I just don't think it's most.
I think the reality.
cheryl hines
But what do you think?
Why do you think most, why would most people do it that aren't interested in truly making the country better or bettering the government?
joe rogan
Well, it all depends upon What is what's your motivation?
Like, what are you, what are you doing it for?
And I think most of them are doing it for the same reason why people become famous.
They're doing it because they want to be special and they want to say the things that people want to hear so that people like them and then they can make money.
I think that's why they do it.
And then once you get in, here's the thing that seems to be pretty apparent: once you get in, for the most part, you have to adhere to the mindset of all the other people that are in your business.
And if you don't, you get cast, like John Fetterman, like you get cast out.
They hate that guy now.
They're mad at him because he says, I think you should probably have ID to vote.
cheryl hines
I like John Fetterman.
unidentified
He's great.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
And he says he's authentic.
joe rogan
He says, well, that guy genuinely worked in charities for his whole life.
Like he genuinely worked in doing philanthropy work and like real stuff.
Like he's not a greedy guy.
He walks around in a Carhartt hoodie and shorts.
He went to the fucking inauguration in shorts and a Carhartt hoodie.
And I talked to him when he was there.
He's like genuinely sweet, like in real life.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's a nice guy.
cheryl hines
He is who he is.
joe rogan
Big teddy bear.
Like a nice guy.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And unfortunately, he had that stroke and so it messes with his ability to recall things.
So when you talk to him like on a show, he'll have like a little iPad that translates stuff.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just so he can recall the question and do it again.
But you know, he's a smart guy.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
He just has a weird problem.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
But the thing is, like, you have to adhere.
And if you don't, you're not allowed to have a deviating opinion.
If you do, you get cast out.
You know, like Thomas Massey.
You see the same thing in the Republicans.
Like anybody that has an opinion that doesn't deviate with the group think, you get cast out.
They'll call you a traitor.
They'll say terrible things about you.
cheryl hines
There's a lot of theatrics.
joe rogan
There's a lot of that.
And I think there's a lot of people that are in that business that start off with really good intentions.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then you see them slowly give in.
They slowly succumb to the weight of what that position is.
cheryl hines
But you know, it's not like they're making a lot of money.
joe rogan
Oh, congress people?
cheryl hines
Anything they are?
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
The way they make money is insider trading, Cheryl.
unidentified
Oh, God, I'm so.
joe rogan
Oh, it's so ubiquitous.
That's the dark, dark secret.
It's not even a secret.
cheryl hines
Is that why they never leave?
joe rogan
Well, that's why Nancy Pelosi is a thousand years old.
She's worth $400 million and she makes $170,000 a year.
Make sense out of that.
Yeah, it is a little make sense out of that.
First of all, if you had $400 million in the bank, would you keep showing up for work if you're 85 years old and you're in a job that pays $170,000 a year?
I'd look at that paycheck every year.
Every week I'd be like, I'm good.
I'm going to get out of here.
This is just a little bit more.
cheryl hines
I'm going to relax on an island somewhere.
I'm going fishing.
joe rogan
I'm going to go to Mexico and go fishing.
unidentified
This is nuts.
joe rogan
I'd be enjoying this money.
Why would you still be working?
Because her net worth keeps going up and up and up.
You've seen PelosiTracker.com.
cheryl hines
Yeah, my boys talk about it.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
She's better at the stock market than Warren Buffett.
She's better at the stock market than George Soros.
cheryl hines
But is it possible that she thinks she is moving the needle in politics in the right way?
joe rogan
It's possible.
Sure.
It's possible that she convinces herself of that.
It's also possible that staying in office is the best way to ensure you're not prosecuted.
unidentified
Whoa.
joe rogan
Yeah, because if somebody goes after you, if that's not legal, and if you really did have insider information and you bought a bunch of stock on something that you knew that I think there's a real good case that that shouldn't be legal.
It seems like it is legal now, but if you're involved.
cheryl hines
Oh, no, is it legal?
Not at all.
joe rogan
I think it's a very gray area because the congresspeople are allowed to trade and buy stocks, and they most certainly have bought stocks when they knew that a certain market is going to be affected by a decision that only they knew was going to be made.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's a lot of evidence for that.
Like, that's how you make that much money.
There's a lot of them.
And it's not a Republican or a Democrat issue.
It's red, blue, graphic.
They're all making crazy loot.
Not all of them.
Like, Tulsi Gabbard didn't do it.
There's a bunch of people that didn't do it.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
unidentified
But there's a lot of them that wind up making a ton of loot and they get super defensive about it.
cheryl hines
Well, nobody wants, nobody wants to say, yeah.
I did it.
joe rogan
Well, tell me how you became worth $400 million without providing any product.
If you invented some new mouse that's like better than any other computer mouse, I see why you made that money.
Congratulations.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
But what'd you do?
Would you do?
Most people make $170,000 a year, are kind of doing well.
They're doing well.
Probably have a nice car.
Probably live in a nice house.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're not worth $400 million.
cheryl hines
No.
joe rogan
That would be the rarest of rare people.
Imagine if you were making $170,000 and you were working side by side with Bob, and all of a sudden Bob's buying a fucking Ferrari.
He's got his own private jet.
cheryl hines
He's like showing up with his driver.
joe rogan
Bob, what are you doing?
cheryl hines
But, and, or, I don't, and I don't know the answer to this, but I probably should.
Aren't there finances exposed every year or no?
Well, is that just when you run for president?
joe rogan
I don't know.
I mean, certainly when you run for president, then they want to see your, they want to audit you or they want to see your tax forms.
Yeah.
cheryl hines
It's cute.
It's a fun.
joe rogan
But when you look at like the net worth, and it's very difficult to find out what someone's net worth is.
But if you look at the net worth of congresspeople, a lot of them are millionaires.
cheryl hines
But were they millionaires before they went in?
joe rogan
A lot of them weren't.
Well, Ilan Omar was, she was in debt before she went in.
cheryl hines
Yeah, but this is the question, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, now she's worth millions.
Kind of odd.
She's good.
She's really good at her job.
cheryl hines
Got lucky?
joe rogan
She's really good at her job.
unidentified
She's really good at her job.
cheryl hines
I mean, I am seeing, you know, through the lens with which I'm looking.
I've seen a lot of people come into the administration that have already had a lot of money.
You know, so in that case, it feels like they're coming in for the right reason.
joe rogan
Right.
But when they got in, how much more money did they make once they got in?
That's when things get weird.
Did you start your own crypto coin and do a pump and dump?
Because, you know, that's odd.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's odd that that's legal.
cheryl hines
Isn't it strong?
And I don't have the answer to this either.
You probably would more than anybody.
But is there a group out there, a watchdog group that's looking at all of this?
That's like, here's another thing I just discovered about this stock that such and such voted for.
joe rogan
There's a lot of people online that do that.
There's a lot of independent journalists that do that.
But the thing is, it never gets covered in mainstream news.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
When was the last time you saw mainstream news doing a deep dive on congresspeople's income?
cheryl hines
Never.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Doesn't seem like because they want to get access to those congresspeople.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
They want them to come on their shows.
You know, it's a weird business.
It's a weird business because most certainly when people get into office, they profit immensely.
You don't just, so if you're like, let's just pretend you're the president.
If you become the president, I think the president gets paid, what do they get paid?
Like $450,000 a year or something like that?
How much does the president get?
By the way, Trump doesn't take that money.
He doesn't take a dime of it.
unidentified
$400,000.
joe rogan
$400,000.
But he does that with crypto coin.
But the point is, it's like, so you make that money and then you're in office for four years and you go, okay, well, are you going to live like Jimmy Carter?
Because Jimmy Carter lived a simple life until he died.
He never profited off of the fact that he was a president.
Or are you going to be one of those people that gives speeches to banks and you inexplicably make like 300 grand to just talk for an hour, which is bizarre?
That seems like a way they can pay you legally.
If I was being cynical, that seems like you did something when you're in office and they made it kind of dangerous.
cheryl hines
They were happy.
joe rogan
You're going to go on your boring ass speaking tour and break it in.
cheryl hines
And, you know, getting sitting on boards.
Right.
It makes me think of the opioid situation with what's their names?
joe rogan
The Sackler.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
unidentified
There's a lot of that.
cheryl hines
The guy from the FDA that approved it and then left.
joe rogan
They found him.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
When that documentary Painkiller came out on Netflix, which is just so good.
Peter Berg did that.
It's so good.
Not documentary, document drama.
Matthew Broderick plays the Sackler.
cheryl hines
It was really good.
joe rogan
Really good.
The guy who approved it, apparently he was saying no forever.
And then they took him to a hotel for like three days.
cheryl hines
And then he's took the FDA guy.
joe rogan
I mean, what did they do in that hotel?
I would like to be a fly on the door.
cheryl hines
They closed the doors.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't know what happened.
cheryl hines
Suddenly.
joe rogan
And then he got a nice job afterwards where he got paid really well.
That's a gross thing that they do.
Where there's this revolving door between the FDA and all these other departments and then these other corporations.
So you leave and then you get this amazing job working for the very corporation that you were regulating.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like if you were doing a good job, wouldn't they want to have nothing to do with you?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like this asshole kept us from making billions of dollars.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
We're going to hire him and give them $2 million in a consulting job.
unidentified
Consulting?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's kind of a way to pay people off.
Seems like it.
Someone like me.
On the outside.
I'm just looking at it logically.
cheryl hines
So looking at it from my point of view.
Yeah, of course.
joe rogan
Yeah, it seems like it.
cheryl hines
That's why.
joe rogan
And it's legal somehow or another.
That's a weird loophole that should be closed up.
You should not be able to regulate an industry and then leave immediately and go work for said industry and make a shit ton of money.
cheryl hines
Well, right.
Maybe you guys doing something.
Why Believing Conspiracy Theories Matters 00:06:19
joe rogan
Maybe somebody talked.
cheryl hines
That's why a lot of people don't like Bobby.
Bobby's like fucking around with this.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
The Sackler family one is nuts because it doesn't seem like they're in trouble.
It doesn't seem like there was a deal, a sweetheart deal, where they were going to give a certain amount of money, a small percentage of the amount that they profited.
And then that would also make them immune to prosecution.
But then a judge pulled that deal right after the documentary came out or the docuseries came out.
But then you never heard another thing about it.
cheryl hines
So let's put this on ice for a little bit and just everybody shut the fuck up.
joe rogan
Everybody shut the fuck up and then it never made it in the news anymore.
And it just kind of drifted away.
But that family is responsible for the death of who knows how many people.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Ruined who knows how many lives.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Destroyed families, destroyed children.
I mean, think about if your dad's hooked on opiates and you become homeless and you're a child, what kind of fuck up, fucking crazy path does your life take where it would have never taken that path if your doctor didn't sell your dad something that completely addicts him to it and prisons him right, imprisons him in a life of just fucking horrible addiction.
cheryl hines
Well, that's why you know, when people talk about conspiracy theories right, it's a conspiracy theory until it's proven true.
So if that can happen, if people can tell doctors this is not addictive and doctors believe it and doctors push it.
And then you find out later, oh, yeah, they knew.
We have documents that prove that they knew that it was addictive.
They knew how destructive it was, but they did it anyway.
It's like people can believe that, but then they have a hard time believing it about other things.
They can't imagine.
joe rogan
Well, they don't want to seem foolish.
And this is the thing about conspiracy theories.
They've done a really good job of making it seem like you're a fool if you believe in conspiracy theories.
And this is, they did a really good job of that during the Kennedy assassination.
That's when the term conspiracy theorist really became popular.
Yeah.
It wasn't really a thing that people talked about all the time before the Kennedy assassination.
And then after that, that became this term that they would use for kooks.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
Your label.
joe rogan
Conspiracy theory.
unidentified
Hilarious.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like they use that for me all the time.
cheryl hines
I was about to say.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Are you like the king of?
joe rogan
I am a conspiracy theorist.
unidentified
Yes.
cheryl hines
Because, by the way, what is a conspiracy?
It's two or more people working together to do something nefarious.
joe rogan
It's always happened.
It's been going on forever.
There's a ton of them that I could just rattle off the top of my head.
And I've had a few conversations with people on the podcast where they're like, I think most conspiracies can be attributed to ineptitude and this.
I'm like, no, no, not most.
A few, some.
But when there's profit involved, when there's profit involved, when there's power involved, when there's control resources involved, most conspiracies, in fact, turn out to be true.
The more you dig deep, the more you realize, like, oh, there's a concerted effort to make these conspiracies seem ridiculous because you don't want to be taken as a fool.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
I am a fool.
So if you take a fool, congratulations.
You're accurate.
I'm a foolish person.
I'm a professional clown.
cheryl hines
But why do you say that?
joe rogan
Because I'm the easiest person to mock of all time.
I am a conspiracy theorist who is a cage-fighting commentator.
Like half of the time, half of the time when I'm working, people are getting kicked in the face.
Like that's, you know, it's like, that's like brutal.
unidentified
Normal.
joe rogan
Normal.
I mean, but like people look at that as like, that's normal for you.
Like that's like brutish, barbaric, like stupid meathead behavior.
Like, right, okay.
cheryl hines
That's okay.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
I don't care.
joe rogan
Okay.
Also, I think they faked the Gulf of Tonkin incident to get us into Vietnam.
Also, production of heroin ramped up to 94% of the world once we occupied Afghanistan.
Like, what?
Like, how much of that's real?
All of it.
Plus, the United States, the CIA rather, sold heroin or sold cocaine in LA ghettos to pay for the Contras versus the Sandinistas in Nicaragua.
That's all true, too.
That's real.
Like, there's conspiracy theories you can get into that are fucking real.
cheryl hines
And you don't mind people.
You don't care what people say about you.
Well, I mean, if they say, no, he's foolish.
joe rogan
I am foolish.
I'm a foolish person.
cheryl hines
Well, I think that gives you superpower to just say, I don't care what you think about me.
Yes, it's like doing improv, right?
joe rogan
Well, nobody wants people to think badly of them.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
I don't want people to feel bad.
But badly of me.
cheryl hines
Does it affect your day-to-day?
joe rogan
I don't pay attention.
cheryl hines
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
I don't pay attention to it.
It's not good for you to pay attention to it.
No.
cheryl hines
Like, if you see yourself trending on.
joe rogan
I don't see myself trending.
cheryl hines
You don't ever check it.
joe rogan
Nope.
Never.
Never.
cheryl hines
That is so smart.
joe rogan
It's not good for you.
You don't have to change it.
You don't even have to change it.
Yeah.
You just got to keep moving.
cheryl hines
And with kids, it's hard to say.
unidentified
It's hard to tell kids don't p pay attention to they're gonna pay attention, you know, but they become more resilient from paying attention.
joe rogan
And I hope your kids know who you are.
I would hope that they get you.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, and I think my kids get me.
And I think my family gets me.
Look, I am who I am.
I'm a fool, but I'm an honest fool.
I'll tell you what I believe.
And it might not make any sense to you, and you can mock me all day long.
cheryl hines
That's what's so funny.
joe rogan
I think there's some things that I'm foolish with, but it's okay.
It doesn't bother me.
I'm nice.
I'm a kind person.
I try to be.
I work hard at it.
cheryl hines
Well, you're smart and you're curious and you're kind to people.
joe rogan
I think it's important to do.
I think it's to live a good life.
You should have a good community of people that you love and you care for, and you should be as nice to them as you can and have some fun in this life.
But also, you can't be scared of people who don't know you thinking that you're an idiot if you're saying something you truly believe in.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Christian's Unapologetic Approach 00:11:21
joe rogan
So I don't mind talking about like the moon landing hoax or fucking UFOs or I don't care.
All the things that people are like, oh, that makes you look like a kook.
cheryl hines
Like, good.
joe rogan
Who cares?
cheryl hines
Then don't listen.
joe rogan
Who cares?
cheryl hines
You don't have to listen.
joe rogan
Right.
But also, like, I don't have to audition for something.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Like, if I did, then maybe I would change.
Like, I know a lot of comedians that kind of changed their act once they started getting on TV.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because they kind of take the edge off their act.
They don't want to be as controversial.
They're worried about a bit maybe getting clipped and going viral or especially like only part of the bit where like it's out of context, doesn't show the whole bit where, you know, yes.
cheryl hines
Even words.
I mean, that goes back to, you know, the campaign.
It's like if any words that come out of your mouth, they can, like you said, clip.
And it's just gone.
And then it's now you're, do you talk about, oh, I, you didn't play the whole thing.
You didn't say this exact exactly.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
The words came out of your mouth.
It doesn't matter.
joe rogan
Well, look at Trump's lawsuit with the BBC.
They completely clipped his speech and took 50 minutes of it out and put another thing at the end of it to make it look like he was trying to get people to go and attack the Capitol.
cheryl hines
Yeah, that's crazy.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
And, you know, he's suing them now.
And then the head of the BBC ought to resign.
But it's like that is normal.
That kind of behavior is normal.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
But what is this election going to look like with AI?
And it's just going to be so crazy.
I mean, the last one was crazy.
This one's going to be so I can't even imagine what it's going to look like.
joe rogan
Well, it's also Trump has kind of changed the way people interact in debates and in politics.
And there's people that are trying to emulate his success, right?
Which happens in like all art forms.
And I think running for president and being an entertainer are kind of connected in the fact that you could almost say that like campaigning is kind of a performance art.
cheryl hines
Absolutely.
joe rogan
I mean, think of like Kamala Harris.
She had that one great speech that she did when they announced that she was going to run for president, which she said, if you're going to say something, say it to my face.
And everybody went, oh shit, it's on.
And then she ramped up in the charts.
And what was that?
Well, that was a great performance.
That was a piece of art.
If you're going to be an artist, that's what that is.
So it's like, this is what these people are doing.
And he's changed the art form in a lot of ways.
Like, he is like, you know, like when Elvis Presley came out and started shaking his hips and everybody's like, what the fuck is going on?
cheryl hines
Are we allowed to do that?
I'm going to do that.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
When Jimi Hendrix lit his guitar on fire, everybody's like, what the fuck?
We can do that?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, it's like someone sometimes comes along that changes the way people do the thing.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He has unfortunately turned everyone into an insult artist.
Whereas you go to the Obama Mitt Romney thing, and if you can find the actual one, not one where people are commenting on it, it's actually interesting.
There's another one that's the really good one, I think the best one is Clinton when he was running for president.
When Clinton was running for president, he was so good.
He was so measured.
And so, oh, not only that, if you listen to what he's saying back then, what's really crazy is a lot of it are right-wing talking points of today.
You know, when they talk about immigration, when they talk, it's right-wing talking points of today.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's looking out for the American middle class.
cheryl hines
No, even Hillary, the things that are going around, the things that she said that now people are furious about.
joe rogan
I know.
When she was running for president in 2008, we've played this clip a bunch of times where she's saying, if you're in this country illegally, yeah, first of all, you should have to pay a stiff fine.
And if you've been arrested for any crime, you get kicked out of the country, no questions asked, and everybody's cheering.
And you should learn to speak English.
And everybody went nuts.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, that's so MAGA.
It's so MAGA.
It's more MAGA than like JD Vance.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It really is.
It's crazy.
unidentified
It is pretty.
cheryl hines
It is crazy.
It's crazy.
But also, like, no self-awareness, some of the Democrats that are watching what's happening.
unidentified
And also, there's anybody capable.
joe rogan
There's no other than Gavin Newsom, right?
Who is like the ultimate slick politician guy.
And regardless of how the state goes in California, regardless of how the city of San Francisco goes, he keeps winning because he's really good at like being slick and like saying and being pretending he's reasonable.
cheryl hines
Well, he's an articulate.
joe rogan
He's a fucking politician, and he's a good-looking guy, and he's tall, and he's got nice hair.
And people are dumb.
unidentified
He could be the president.
joe rogan
He's my president.
cheryl hines
He could definitely play the president on TV.
joe rogan
100%.
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
So, like, that's all you have to do.
Like, you have to just be it the way we like a president to say it.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it's crazy because they're the only people today that are allowed to talk like that and say things that we know aren't true in a way that is a way that a person talks when they're running for president that they never talk like in real life.
It's true.
Like if someone's over your house, they start talking like that.
You're like, Steve is fucking crazy.
We got to get him out of the house.
cheryl hines
He's very presentational.
joe rogan
It's so funny.
cheryl hines
You're right.
There's a lot of the shouting and yelling.
joe rogan
It's weird.
cheryl hines
It is weird.
joe rogan
And now it's become insulting.
And now it's a lot of insulting.
And Newsom has tried to ape Trump's behavior patterns.
cheryl hines
I hope the pendulum swings back to a lot of people.
joe rogan
You need a really good kid from the left.
cheryl hines
I don't know who that's going to be.
joe rogan
I don't see anybody.
That James Tallarico guy is kind of interesting.
He's pretty interesting.
I've had him on the podcast before.
He's a very religious guy and very opposed to them putting the Ten Commandments in schools, public schools in Texas.
And his take on it is very measured as a religious person, very religious person.
He's in seminary right now.
And he essentially said that you're pushing people away from Christianity by doing this.
And then it's not fair that if you are not a Christian and you go to the school, you have to read the Christian rules.
And what about the Buddhist rules?
What about the Muslim rules?
What about right?
cheryl hines
And he can talk about it in a small way.
joe rogan
And he's also a very religious person.
cheryl hines
I'm not very familiar with him at all.
joe rogan
He was a school teacher.
And he was realizing that cuts to the budgets were directly affecting vulnerable students in his class.
And he pointed to this one kid that he had that was doing really well because he was getting counseling and came from a troubled background, but he was really showing progress.
And then they cut off the funding.
He lost his counseling, started falling apart, dropped out of school.
And he was like, that is a direct result of this lack of funding for important things that he thinks directly affect people that are vulnerable.
And he was coming at it from a very honest and a very moral and ethical place.
And when you could talk to him, you could realize that I think he's a good man.
And he has a real good chance of being like a.
cheryl hines
Is he from Texas?
joe rogan
Yes.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
He also pointed to the fact that he's kind of young, right?
joe rogan
Yes.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Very young.
I think he's like 35 or 36 or something like that.
But it's also, he pointed out that there's a group of very wealthy oil people in this country, or in this state rather, that want to turn Texas into a they want to fund all the religious schools and cut the funding for the public schools.
They want to turn it into a theocracy.
You know, they essentially want to turn it into like this, they're Christian, what you would call a Christian nationalist, and they really want to push that agenda.
And they're doing it with an enormous amount of money.
They have an incredible amount of money, and they're these evangelical Christians, and they have these very rigid ideas about what people should be able to do in this country.
Sketchy.
cheryl hines
Yeah, that's sketchy.
unidentified
Very sketchy.
cheryl hines
And it also goes back to money.
So even hearing that, like to run for president takes so much money.
joe rogan
Yeah.
A lot of money.
But if people think you could win, they might get on board.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's where things get interesting.
Like if you think someone can win, like how much are you willing to ignore just because this guy will get in?
And then once he gets in, that's the dirty part.
Once they get in, very rarely do they do what they said they were going to do.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Very rarely.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Very rarely.
cheryl hines
Well, and do you think it's because it's so hard to make change, or you think once they get in, they're like, I don't care.
I'm just going to do that.
joe rogan
Well, I think if you want to be really cynical, I think they say a lot of things that they don't mean in order to get elected.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
They say the things that the people want to hear in order to get elected.
And then I think once they get elected, then it's like the Bill Hicks bit.
There's a Bill Hicks bit where he's like, I think they take you into a dark, smoky room and they show you an angle of the Kennedy assassination that you've never seen before.
And then they say, any questions?
And you're like, yeah, I just want to know what my agenda is.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, I think there's a little bit of that too.
cheryl hines
Well, you're right.
I mean, not about that specifically, but definitely when you get in, you see things that are just like, well, this is bigger.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Bigger has been happening for a long time, and you're just a little tiny piece that's not going to change that.
joe rogan
The deep state is real.
And if you want a conspiracy theory that a lot of people like to dismiss, just think about it logically.
If there are a bunch of people that are in charge of enormous organizations and these enormous organizations exist regardless of who the president is, and they are in office for 10, 20, 30, 40 years, whatever it is, acquiring power, using their influence, enormous amount of support from enormous corporations, that's real.
That's always been real.
And you have to contend with that if you want to enact meaningful change as a politician in this country.
And good luck.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Good luck fighting that battle.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
And when you do get in as president, there are so many jobs that you have to fill like thousands in days, weeks, months, thousands and thousands.
So you have all of these thousands of new employees that are ready to work.
They have to be organized.
And now they're organizing with the people, like you said, that are politicals that have been there or they're career people that have been there through it all, through different and they're going to be there when you're gone.
And they're going to be there when you're gone.
joe rogan
So they'll hit the brakes every time they can.
They'll fucking wrench into the gears, slow things down, make backdoor deals.
Yeah.
cheryl hines
It's just like crazy.
joe rogan
I've talked to Tulsi about it, and she's like, it's so nuts.
There's people that are in charge of these certain offices and they just stop you from doing what you want to do.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then you have to try to figure out how to get around and try to figure out how to get, and then you have to wash their backs or they wash yours.
Questionable Ethics 00:04:30
unidentified
Yeah.
It's a lot.
cheryl hines
It's just a lot of every day trying to friggin.
And I'm sure it gets frustrating.
And I'm sure there are days when you're like, well, I know I told the people I was going to do that one thing.
And I can't have that one thing.
I can't even get people to change their mind about what they're going to eat for lunch.
joe rogan
That's the real scary thing about AI.
AI is going to come along and be logical and say, let us handle this.
You guys aren't good at this.
cheryl hines
I think they're doing that now.
unidentified
Don't you think they're doing that?
joe rogan
Corruption, all this corruption.
We could put a stop to it immediately.
Yeah.
We can make things very efficient.
cheryl hines
By the way, you don't think AI could weed out the people and Congress and wherever that have been that have been making money on interesting.
Yeah.
I haven't said, right?
joe rogan
I don't think they're doing anything illegal currently.
I think it's very questionable whether or not it's an ethical thing to do.
I don't think it is.
unidentified
But I think as far as the legality of it, it's not like illegal to invest in a company.
joe rogan
No, it's not.
You ever see Nancy Pelosi when she got asked about that?
It's hilarious.
It's so funny.
Like they caught her off guard.
And do you think he's like, I think they should be on participate?
And then she pushes the microphone away and gets out of there.
You've never seen it?
cheryl hines
It's really funny.
unidentified
Maybe I have.
I don't know.
joe rogan
Jenny, pull that up.
It's a fun clip.
Because look, she's been running it like a G. Respect.
cheryl hines
Seriously, she's been in for a long time.
She's got it down, Pat, man.
She's got it.
joe rogan
There's a photo of her when she was a young girl standing next to Kennedy.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
I've seen that.
She's been in this game for ever.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And you want to know who she is?
Her and Chuck Schumer, when they put on the African garb and they got down on one knee for Black Lives Matter.
And it turns out that the colors that they were wearing were from a specific tribe that was responsible for a lot of the slavery.
They were the people that were enslaving people and then selling them.
No, we told her that.
She just wanted to look cool.
cheryl hines
We told her that.
That's a tough one.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Make sure that's true.
I'm pretty sure it is.
I'm pretty sure it is.
What?
You didn't listen?
jamie vernon
I'm looking for the Nancy Pelosi.
joe rogan
Oh, sorry.
That Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, when they got down on one knee with their African garb on, the garb that they're wearing is from this one particular tribe that was responsible for a lot of the slave trade.
cheryl hines
And by the way, that also speaks to how some things are just random done by an assistant somewhere that's like, I need to have something to put on.
And then now it looks like they've made a big statement and it's, you know, it's like, oh, no, I didn't know.
joe rogan
Well, that's just kooky to do.
It's just kooky to do in the first place.
I mean, it's like, what do you, why are you doing that?
Well, how would I just say I feel very strongly about this particular social issue and we need, you know, less racism and we need to be more equal in this country.
cheryl hines
No, but it's about the photo up.
joe rogan
You're getting on one knee.
Well, sometimes accurate.
cheryl hines
Sometimes that we go to.
jamie vernon
I'm trying to figure out what they're saying about it.
There's a picture.
joe rogan
Okay.
Yeah.
jamie vernon
We're just mad that they were wearing stuff to begin with.
I don't know.
joe rogan
Right.
It's called Kenticloth.
So was the Kenticloth, Did it have anything to do with the people that were involved in the slave trade?
Did they wear it?
Because that's what I had read online.
But again, who knows how much of that's real?
That's the problem.
You read things and it could be horseshit.
Yeah.
Fact check, yes.
unidentified
Hold.
joe rogan
Go back.
jamie vernon
It didn't say anything.
joe rogan
It said fact check.
jamie vernon
Yeah, it didn't say yes.
joe rogan
Yes.
It says yes, first word.
Kenticlots were historically worn by empire involved in West African slave trade.
Yeah, so that's true.
cheryl hines
Well, it's funny because when Bobby and I travel internationally and we might be somewhere where they wear specific clothing garments, right?
And it looks cool and it's like we're supposed to go to a event or a function.
And I will think, oh, well, why don't we wear what they're wearing?
Bobby's like, calm down.
Just wear your own clothes.
Fights and Gambles in UFC 00:05:08
cheryl hines
Don't, don't.
Just don't.
joe rogan
Just don't.
cheryl hines
And I'm like, well, are you sure?
Because everybody's girl, just bring it down.
joe rogan
And definitely don't take a picture.
Get their stuff on.
cheryl hines
Oh, no.
joe rogan
Theo Vaughn did that.
He went to Qatar and took a picture with wearing their outfits.
unidentified
Uh-oh.
joe rogan
And everybody's like, you're bought and paid for.
Settle down.
You got the Nancy Pelissi video?
jamie vernon
No, no, I was.
Man, there's multiple versions of it, and that's most of the things I'm finding are people commenting on it again.
joe rogan
Oh.
jamie vernon
Because that's where it exists.
joe rogan
I'm sure you'll find it.
cheryl hines
It's out there.
joe rogan
This is fun.
cheryl hines
I'm sure there are a few.
jamie vernon
No, I mean, this was not it.
joe rogan
It's not it.
jamie vernon
No, this is Yahoo Finance talking about it, and it shows 10 seconds of it, but it doesn't show her walking away like you wanted to.
unidentified
Yeah.
jamie vernon
Trying to find what you wanted to see.
joe rogan
Let me hear.
Back it up a little.
cheryl hines
She's tough.
joe rogan
Back it up a little so you can hear the question.
Government should be trading.
Take a listen.
unidentified
Insider just completed a five-month investigation.
I think that's 49 members of Congress and 182 senior congressional staffers have violated the stock act, the insider trading law.
joe rogan
I'm wondering if you have any reaction to that.
unidentified
And secondly, should members of Congress and their spouses be banned from trading individual stocks while serving in Congress?
cheryl hines
No, I don't.
nancy pelosi
No, to the second one.
We have a responsibility to report in the stock on the stuff, but I'm not familiar with that five-month review.
But if people aren't reporting, they should be.
joe rogan
Look how nervous she looks.
nancy pelosi
This is a free market, and people, we have a free market economy that should be able to participate in that.
joe rogan
Hmm.
cheryl hines
Okay.
Okay.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
So I guess there is some law.
unidentified
Yeah, there, there is some law that they were talking about.
cheryl hines
Yeah, like you can't know about a decision that's going to be made and somehow have invested.
joe rogan
But there's a lot of evidence that they do.
And again, right and left.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a lot.
cheryl hines
It's definitely not one group.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's not.
Well, she's the scapegoat because she's the best at it.
She's the G. She's top dog.
I don't even think she has made the most money.
I think someone else had made more money, right?
Wasn't it?
jamie vernon
She's like 10th on the list or something.
joe rogan
Who's the top dog?
They're the one throwing her under the bus.
Put Nancy in front of the camera.
cheryl hines
She likes Nancy.
joe rogan
She likes the camera.
Get her out there.
They're hiding.
cheryl hines
Nancy's like, ah, well.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's some guy who's like fucking in the middle of North Dakota.
cheryl hines
Just taking it easy.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Just on his ranch.
joe rogan
That guy, Dave Rauser, threw that.
149%.
cheryl hines
Whoa.
joe rogan
Okay, but that's, it says stock value, portfolio value, but it doesn't say the numbers.
jamie vernon
Yeah, well, I mean, that's.
joe rogan
Right.
You know what I mean?
It's like, so if their portfolio goes up 149%, but they only have 50 grand in it, as opposed to what Nancy has in it, hers only went up 70%.
Imagine if you, if you went to a fucking guy and he said he didn't give you a 70% return on your money, he'd be like, what's your name?
cheryl hines
How do you know that?
joe rogan
What is your name?
So I can Google you, Mr. Madoff.
unidentified
Right.
cheryl hines
Exactly.
joe rogan
Yeah.
How are you doing that?
How are you making that much money?
That's crazy.
cheryl hines
How about 150%?
That was like the top one.
joe rogan
He's doing good.
cheryl hines
That guy's doing okay.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
But maybe he's smart.
He only invests a little bit.
Just a touch.
Just a little bit.
Just for funsies.
cheryl hines
In AI.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, if you put in 20 bucks and you come back with 150% or 20 bucks, no one's going to get that.
cheryl hines
Do you gamble?
joe rogan
Me?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
No, but I will.
cheryl hines
You mean you're ready to start?
joe rogan
But it's not like that.
No, I don't gamble on cards and stuff like that.
I used to gamble on fights.
I used to bet on fights.
But then I really decided at a certain point in time, I probably shouldn't be doing this.
That was a long time ago, though, before the UFC recently made it illegal.
Not illegal, but they passed a rule saying that the people that work for the UFC can't gamble on the fights because there was a scandal involved with fixed fights where it looks like somebody took a dive for money.
And then it turns out many fighters have been approached and asked to take dives.
And so there's a current investigation going on.
cheryl hines
Just like basketball.
I bet the basketball thing.
Yeah, I mean, it's not new.
joe rogan
Especially when money's involved.
If you get gambling involved.
But my thought was like, I don't have any power in affecting whether or not the fight goes one way or the other.
I just have insight.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
In terms of like what I think I have a more educated idea of what a fighter is capable of than a person who doesn't watch fights constantly.
And also in the beginning, the early days, I had a giant advantage in that I was a huge fan of these overseas organizations like Pride and Strike Force, or not Strike Force, but Ryzen.
A lot of these companies were bringing fighters over, and these bookmakers didn't know about these fighters.
And I knew a lot about them.
Girls Want Around Epstein-Type Situations 00:16:33
joe rogan
I'm like, this guy's going to fuck everybody up.
Like whatever this line is.
I would tell people, like when Anderson Silva came to the UFC, I told all my friends, I said, bet the house.
Bet everything on this guy.
I go, this guy's going to fuck everybody up.
He's going to be the champion inside of a year.
I was like, there's no one going to stop him.
cheryl hines
And he was.
joe rogan
I was like, he's too good.
cheryl hines
But you don't want to bet on football or something that you're not.
You're not sort of.
joe rogan
I would.
I'll bet a little bit.
cheryl hines
I already want you to gamble for some reason.
joe rogan
I'm not scared of gambling, but I do know that it ruins some people's lives.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
But so do cheeseburgers.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Some people, they ruin their life with Pop-Tarts and Mountain Dew.
cheryl hines
It's true.
It's going to be, if it's going to be something.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
But it doesn't have to be is what we're saying.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
It's the same thing as junk food.
Like, I don't think junk food should be illegal.
But I think what Bobby's doing with junk food is really important.
And what he's also doing with just educating people, like, hey, like the new food pyramid.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Finally, it's aligned with all the real legitimate health experts.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Instead of this nonsense that you're supposed to mostly be eating grain like you're a fucking cow.
Like this is much.
cheryl hines
By the way, you know, Bobby's job as secretary of HHS, even something like the food pyramid, which is, I don't know how you can argue with it, but people will find a reason to be mad about it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
And it's no matter what he says or sometimes the president says, even if it's something great like Favored Nations drug prices.
unidentified
Right.
cheryl hines
They're saying for the first time America is not going to pay more than other countries for drugs, pharmaceutical drugs.
Somehow there are people out there that would be mad about it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
They're not going to take it.
joe rogan
Well, they're furious.
cheryl hines
They're going to be outraged.
joe rogan
A lot of them are probably paid off.
They're paid off to be.
There's a lot of paid influencers.
That's one thing to take into consideration when it comes to anything.
Not like foreign policy issues.
pharmaceutical drug issues.
There's a lot of people that are paid to have certain opinions.
That's a fact.
cheryl hines
And get it out there.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They get it out there and someone takes advantage of the fact that this person has a large platform and then they say, hey, this fucking drug price thing is wrong.
We're doing something terrible.
These pharmaceuticals with drugs.
There's how much money they have to spend in order.
We have to make sure they're profitable.
cheryl hines
It's pretty hard on them.
joe rogan
This is a crime.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
This is a crime to make it cheaper for everybody else.
Like, they need all the money.
cheryl hines
Do you think that influencers that are just, you know, the people that are showing you how to do an exercise or how to do your makeup?
You think those guys, yeah, somehow they get involved, right?
joe rogan
It depends on who they are and how influential they are.
But I know that happened during COVID.
They paid a lot of people to promote the vaccines.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They paid people to promote the vaccines, which is just paid people.
That's crazy.
Like, if the medicine's good, you shouldn't have to pay people to promote it.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
When was the last time you saw an influencer getting paid to promote penicillin?
cheryl hines
I've never.
joe rogan
Fucking never.
Why?
Because it works.
It's good.
You don't have to do that.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
If you need it, you should go to the doctor and get penicillin.
It's like tried and proven medication.
cheryl hines
That was a weird time.
joe rogan
That's a weird time.
cheryl hines
That's a weird time.
joe rogan
Weird.
Super weird time.
But it opened up a lot of people's eyes and, you know, air quotes, red-pilled a lot of people.
cheryl hines
I hear that term a lot.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Is there a term black-pilled?
joe rogan
Yes.
cheryl hines
Oh, never saw it.
joe rogan
Oh, you never saw the matrix?
cheryl hines
No, but I've seen.
You're an actress.
I've seen him going backwards.
It's like, okay, I get it.
I got the thing.
Oh, wait.
So red pill.
joe rogan
So Morpheus presents?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Well, Morpheus is Lawrence Fishburne.
Lawrence Fishburne presents Keanu Reeves with two pills.
One of them is the blue pill.
If he takes this blue pill, he stays in the matrix and he has no knowledge of what reality is all about.
If he takes the red pill, the red pill is reality.
And he gets to see.
So he takes the red pill.
The red pill is reality.
And so there's a lot of people that took that blue pill and, you know, and they can't tell you what a woman is.
cheryl hines
That's an interesting conversation when you hear that.
joe rogan
A great example of someone who took the blue pill.
When you just say, like in these congressional hearings, like Josh Howley or all these people say, what is a woman?
And they're like, someone who identifies as a woman.
Okay, what are they identifying as?
And it's like this weird circular logic and they just keep going and they don't have anything.
Can men menstruate?
Can men get pregnant?
Yes, some men can get pregnant.
Yes, some men can have babies.
Yes, some men menstruate.
And you're like, do you have a PhD?
Are you really a teacher?
This is crazy.
cheryl hines
It is.
joe rogan
That's blue pill.
They took the blue pill.
cheryl hines
Is there such a thing as a black pill?
unidentified
Yes.
cheryl hines
What is that pill?
joe rogan
People think we're doomed and we're fucked and everything's there.
They think it's all pedophiles and Satanists are running the government.
And then the white pills people think everything's going to be great.
cheryl hines
Oh.
Can I get the white one?
joe rogan
Yeah, the white pill would be a good thing to take, but I don't think it's accurate.
I think you want a gray pill.
If they just have a gray pill that gets you like, hey, there probably are a bunch of Satanists and pedophiles in positions of high power.
And then there's also probably a real good chance that we'll pull through this and we'll be better than we've ever been before.
cheryl hines
That's possible.
joe rogan
There's a lot of exciting possibility about the future of human beings.
And I think the good thing and the bad thing about the internet is the free distribution of information.
Because the good thing about it that I try to focus on is that more people have an understanding of how things are really working than ever before.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like this Epstein file thing, right?
That was a big eye-opener for a lot of people.
When you see how many people after 2008, after he was arrested, after he went to jail, were actively taking money from him.
MIT took money from him and tried to hide it and said, make sure that any donations from Jeffrey are listed as anonymous.
So you find out like people are like, they referred to him as Voldemort.
Like you couldn't say his name.
Wow.
There was a lot of people that met with him and did business with him and traveled with him after he was arrested, after he went to jail.
cheryl hines
Do you spend a lot of time reading them?
joe rogan
No, I try not to.
I try to have experts come on.
I try to read.
You can't change it.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it'll fuck with your head.
cheryl hines
Yeah, it's toxic.
will really get it'll stick with your that i and i know i've tried not to yeah um yeah I haven't read any of them.
I do see things on the news, and I'm not saying, oh, if I don't hear it, that means it didn't happen.
But it's just, it is such a toxic situation that I think it would be hard to.
joe rogan
It seems very dark.
cheryl hines
Very dark.
joe rogan
Because it seems like it was this bizarre black male influence thing that was going on for a long time.
For so long.
cheryl hines
Through different administrations.
That's what's so unbelievable about it.
How long, how long it was going on.
joe rogan
I'm in the files for not going.
unidentified
Huh?
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm in the files for not going because Jeffrey Epstein was trying to meet with me.
cheryl hines
Oh, I did see that.
joe rogan
Yeah, and I was like, what?
cheryl hines
Like, no, thanks.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Aren't you glad?
joe rogan
Yeah, but I would have never went anyway.
It's like, it's not even a possibility that I would have went, especially after I'd Googled him.
I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?
This is like 2017.
One of my guests was trying to get me to meet him.
I was like, bitch, are you high?
Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
cheryl hines
For what reason would you?
joe rogan
What would be if I was a guy who was like sucking up to the rich and powerful?
If I was really interested in hanging out with rich and powerful people.
cheryl hines
You know, it's crazy.
That's so crazy.
But yeah, some people.
joe rogan
Some people get intoxicated by being in a circle of rich and powerful people, even if they're not like they don't even have any ambitions of being one of those people.
They just want to be around them.
They want to be around Nobel Prize winners.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because this guy was, what he was doing was very clever in that he was getting all of these very powerful and very respected people together.
cheryl hines
And you would figure like, oh, if that guy's there, if that lady's there.
This is fine.
joe rogan
Friends here.
How could this be bad?
Look, it's Steven Pinker.
How could this be bad?
You know, he's a genius.
And so you would go, I would imagine, you would go to these, because there's people that went to these, like, he had parties in New York.
Like, he brought in celebrities and comedians.
Didn't Lewis Black get invited to one of those?
I think he's talked about it.
I know Chelsea Handler went to one of them.
It's like he would bring all these people in, and he'd like to be around famous people and entertainers and a lot of intellectuals and professors.
And Noam Chomsky was famously, deeply involved.
So it's like you would go, I guess, to these places, and that was how he would convince everybody that everything is going to be fine.
Like, have you ever been invited to a party and someone tell you, hey, you should go to this party?
Brad Pitt's going to be there.
Like, they'll tell you that to try to get you to go.
They'll tell you about the famous people that are going to be there.
unidentified
Like, oh.
cheryl hines
Oh, I should go.
unidentified
Oh, I didn't know.
cheryl hines
I don't know.
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is weird.
Some people are really driven by that.
Really love the parties and the invitations.
joe rogan
And blindly ambitious.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
They're willing to put aside, you know, all the possibilities of what could be awful about these people and get together with them without any even a cursory Google search as to who you're hanging out with.
cheryl hines
You're going to have your assistant Google something.
joe rogan
How about you just do it?
cheryl hines
Just go.
It doesn't take long.
unidentified
Hey.
joe rogan
Look what I just found out.
This is kind of crazy.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's just, but it's what's more bizarre is that there's probably in this, I talked to Mike Benz about this.
He was like explaining how this guy rose to prominence and how he got this kind of influence that he had.
And he was like, there's probably a bunch of those going on right now that we don't know about.
cheryl hines
What people that are like that.
joe rogan
Like the same sort of Jeffrey Epstein type situation, just someone else and doing it somewhere else.
They just haven't been caught yet.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like if he didn't get arrested, let's think about this.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because his particular perversion, the darkness of it, was that he was into underage girls.
He was into young girls.
Imagine if he wasn't.
What if he was only into girls that are in their 30s?
Like, you would have never heard anything about it.
What if he just hired these adult ladies to come to these parties that were already sex workers?
Would you have heard anything about this?
cheryl hines
I know.
joe rogan
And that's the thing.
Like, is that happening right now?
cheryl hines
Right.
jamie vernon
Did you hear about how this started in 2005?
I think this is.
unidentified
No, but I'm glad you're saying that because I'm going to take two girls fighting.
joe rogan
So it started between a fight between two teenage girls at Royal Palm Beach High School in Florida.
Here are the details of how the event triggered the investigation.
Early 2005, two girls at Royal Palm Beach High School got into a fight during which one girl repeatedly called the other girl a prostitute or hooker.
Following the fight, school administrations and parents investigated searching one of the girls' purses and finding $300 in cash.
The confession.
A student initially claimed the money was from working at a fast food restaurant, but later revealed she had been paid for massages by a wealthy man, later identified as Jeffrey Epstein.
This revelation led to a police investigation in March of 2005 when the stepmother of one of the girls reported the molestation to the Palm Beach police.
unidentified
Wow.
cheryl hines
Wow, that's in 2005.
jamie vernon
That was the first arrest.
joe rogan
And now listen to this.
It says they identify the Royal Palm Beach High was identified as a focal point for recruitment, where according to investigations, at least 15 students were lured into Epstein's Palm Beach home.
Holy shit.
cheryl hines
That's so crazy.
Now imagine 2005.
joe rogan
Imagine if those girls didn't get in that fight.
Imagine if that didn't happen.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's dark.
cheryl hines
It's dark.
joe rogan
Yeah.
But if that guy was not into that, if he was not into high school girls, like if he was just into grown women who were sex workers and he ran the same operation exactly the same way, it could probably go on to this day.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And if everybody kept their fucking mouth shut, and if all these guys, you know.
cheryl hines
Oh, yeah.
I mean, look at some people that are in the.
jamie vernon
There was nothing going on, so.
joe rogan
Oh.
FBI concluded Jeffrey Epstein wasn't running a sex trafficking ring for powerful men, file show.
Oh, there you go.
unidentified
There you go.
joe rogan
Who says that?
What's that source?
jamie vernon
It's going around the.
I just found the place that the show in the headline that was going around the internet today.
unidentified
Oh, today?
jamie vernon
Yeah, the AP, it's the AP reporting it.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Today.
Oh, I thought that was fun.
I thought that was from 2005.
unidentified
This is like the FBI.
joe rogan
That's the gaslightiest gaslighting shit I've ever heard in my life.
cheryl hines
Whoa.
joe rogan
What do they think is going on?
Just a bunch of fun, a bunch of guys hanging out.
cheryl hines
That is.
joe rogan
Being fellas, having cocktails, talking about science.
jamie vernon
I'm still looking into it, but they don't have any evidence.
joe rogan
Look into it.
Maybe get Eddie Bravo in the case.
cheryl hines
Looking into it.
unidentified
That is so crazy.
joe rogan
There's probably a lot of that that's gone on forever.
And it's also probably a way that they can secure business deals and make sure that people do things they want to do.
They have a little something over them.
They do a little bit of this, do a little bit of that.
cheryl hines
For sure.
This is what this is what's.
Yeah.
I mean, that's what Epstein was all about, was manipulating people and, you know, holding it over their head and getting them to do something.
joe rogan
Allegedly.
cheryl hines
Allegedly.
joe rogan
It certainly seems like that.
It certainly seems like that was a big part of it.
cheryl hines
I mean, is it possible that people didn't know what was going on?
joe rogan
Maybe initially.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, if someone got lured in like they tried to lure me in and they didn't do a Google search and also they're meeting with this eccentric billionaire, supposedly, who's just not politically correct?
Oh, he's a wild guy.
cheryl hines
By the way, who cares?
joe rogan
People care.
cheryl hines
People care.
joe rogan
Weirdly.
People care about billionaires.
cheryl hines
They want to meet.
unidentified
Weirdly.
joe rogan
They want access.
They think somehow or another it's going to rub off on them and they're going to be rich too.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
I mean, listen, I see that.
Well, you see it with celebrities, of course.
unidentified
Sure.
cheryl hines
Everybody wants to be around that I see it with Bobby.
People want to be around him.
They want to access.
They want to tell him something.
They want to talk to him.
And it's like, well, it's intense.
joe rogan
Gets really weird.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's real weird.
It's a, I think it's a natural human inclination.
You know, I think it goes back to the tribal days.
You want to be around the chief of the tribe.
You know, I just think it's a normal primate behavior.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
And it makes sense that you want to be around people that sort of lift you up and give you ideas, show you something that wouldn't otherwise see.
joe rogan
In the best case scenario.
cheryl hines
In the best case scenario.
joe rogan
In the best case scenario, you want to be around good people because you want to be around a good person.
If you meet someone who's really cool, like, wow, that guy's really cool.
I love being around that person.
Everybody loves him.
Why does it really?
Look at his behavior.
I was such a nice guy.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, and then, you know, that's good.
Rubs off on everybody.
But also, for some people, it's just like they see someone who's very important and they want to be important.
And they think being next to that person makes them important.
cheryl hines
Just being next to them is going to do something for them.
Voting Fraud Myths 00:06:51
joe rogan
Well, that's why people name drop.
Right?
Name dropping might be the worst strategy that's ever been conceived.
It doesn't work and yet people do it all the time.
Like it never works.
Nobody ever sees, well, it was over at Leonardo Caprio's house.
You know, Leo and I are close.
Nobody goes, wow, you're so cool.
You're friends with Leo.
No, they go, listen to this motherfucker name-dropping.
unidentified
Right?
cheryl hines
It's weird.
joe rogan
It's weird, but people still do it.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
It's like, I was just telling my niece.
It's like.
joe rogan
Oh, you just name-dropped your niece.
cheryl hines
I didn't see your name.
But I was saying, I was saying like a woman who has a bumper sticker that says classy lady.
I don't think you are.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
It's like if you have this.
You have to tell me.
You got to tell me.
unidentified
It's a good example.
cheryl hines
It's like, I don't think so.
joe rogan
Classy ladies and bumper stickers, first of all.
What are you doing to your car?
What are you doing to your car?
You poor car.
cheryl hines
It's a hard time.
joe rogan
Classy lady is hilarious.
cheryl hines
Is it hard for you to go out?
Can you go out?
It is a struggle.
Are so famous that it's that there's, there's fame, you know where people are.
Some people come up and go, oh hi, I like the thing that you did or the thing that you do.
And then there's the super famous where it's, everybody knows you and it's probably it's got to keep you from actually doing normal things.
joe rogan
I would think it's definitely a problem.
Yeah, it gets in the way, but that's what you sign up for.
Yeah, you know, I didn't necessarily sign up for it, but it became what it is like.
When I first started doing this podcast, I never would have, never would.
If someone told me it was gonna be what it was, what it became, I might go.
cheryl hines
Not ready for that.
joe rogan
I don't know if I want to do that.
cheryl hines
That's a lie.
joe rogan
I like to just be like a B-list sort of weird guy.
On the outside it's like kind of keeps working, but that's it.
cheryl hines
You're the first, you're the first person that I've ever talked to.
That's like yeah, I just want to be B-list.
joe rogan
Oh, B-list is sweet, it's good.
Nobody knows who you are, nobody cares.
cheryl hines
You can go to the movies.
joe rogan
Oh yeah, nobody cares.
If they see you, they say hi, that's it.
cheryl hines
Yeah, that's it.
joe rogan
Oh hey, aren't you, that guy that was on that show?
Yeah hi, that's it.
cheryl hines
Yeah yeah nice, that's nice, that's perfect.
Yeah, you can go to Disney World yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
No, you get to a certain level, you can't go anywhere.
No, that's where you know you fucked up.
cheryl hines
Well, don't run for president, by the way.
joe rogan
No chance, not a chance in hell.
No never never, not a chance in hell.
Zero political aspirations.
Don't listen to me if I run, don't vote for me.
Don't do it.
I'm not, I don't want that job.
I wouldn't be good at it.
I'm not designed for it.
cheryl hines
No, that's a tough job.
joe rogan
It's a crazy job.
That made sense when there was 150 people and they all had muskets.
It doesn't make any sense that one alpha should be involved in controlling 350 million people.
Yeah, that's nuts.
That's a crazy job.
cheryl hines
It's all a crazy setup.
And, by the way uh, elections are hell they're.
The way they're set up is crazy.
Yeah, there's a.
If you, when you're in it and you start seeing oh, this is what you have to do, especially running as an independent.
This is what you have to do for each state.
It's different for each state.
Yeah, just like who?
Who made up these rules?
joe rogan
That people that were trying to make sure that it was really hard to win.
cheryl hines
Yeah, to make sure an independent there's a.
joe rogan
There's a thing where people are not allowed to question that if you question, you could call the fool or you called a conspiracy theorist.
Like hey, I think there's some election fraud.
How much do you think there is?
Like one, when people say I don't think the election in 2020 was rigged, I go well, I don't have any evidence, I don't know.
But if I had to ask you what percentage of election fraud is real, I don't think you would say zero.
Yeah, I don't think anybody would say zero.
Well, I mean right, do you think like?
There's a woman in California that recently registered her dog and and used a mail-in ballot and voted for her dog to expose the fact that you could do this?
And you know, California famously doesn't allow you to show id when you vote, which is crazy.
cheryl hines
That's pretty crazy.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
Like, you're not allowed to?
Not only are you not asking, you're not allowed.
cheryl hines
You're not allowed to show it.
joe rogan
That seems like if I was being super charitable, I can't find a reason why that makes sense.
And I've ever seen Kamala explain that, like, people in poor places, they can't go to Kinkos and they can't get their ID.
cheryl hines
I haven't seen that.
Something to see.
joe rogan
Fucking nuts.
It's like the most rambly, cockeyed answer for, like, it doesn't, there's no answer that makes any sense.
Like, why shouldn't you have voter ID?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Unless you're trying to cheat.
So then the question is: okay, let's say they're not trying to cheat.
They just want to make it easy for people that don't have ID to vote.
How much of those people are voting that shouldn't be voting?
It's not zero.
It's not zero.
So how much of an effect did it have on the election?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't know.
But here's the thing, Democrats.
If that's a fact and it happened in 2020 and maybe it happened in 2024, we don't know.
Maybe it'll happen again in 2028.
Maybe the Republicans will lock it down and they'll rig the elections.
Do you think that's okay?
I don't think that's okay.
unidentified
Right.
cheryl hines
Well, by the way, remember Bush v. Gore?
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
cheryl hines
I mean, that's when things turned for me where I was like, I'm out.
I'm not.
It was so shady and it was so dramatic.
joe rogan
It takes a couple weeks to figure out who the president is.
cheryl hines
Remember that?
I do.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
I do.
joe rogan
Do you remember Hacking Democracy, the documentary on HBO?
cheryl hines
No.
joe rogan
Ooh, it was really good because it was all about the Diebold systems.
And they showed in this documentary that these systems have third-party input.
So the idea was that these systems were owned by some large contributor to the Republican Party.
And these machines that were in place, supposedly on this show, if I remember correctly, they showed that they can affect the election.
They showed they could change the numbers with third-party input.
And they did it on the show.
So on this document.
So at that time, that was supposed to be evidence that the Republicans were capable of rigging the election.
And so everyone was supposed to be outraged.
Oh, my God, they've hijacked our election process and stolen it.
But then in 2020, because it was Trump, and he's such a polarizing character that when he said that the election was stolen, everybody was like, this is an affront to our democracy.
Never has a president said that the elections weren't fair.
That's not even true because Hillary did it in 2016.
She said that he wasn't the rightful president, that Russia helped him win.
cheryl hines
I mean, it's been going on, I think, every almost every election, I think.
And just like Gore v. Bush, it was like people were so outraged.
People Picking Sides 00:07:33
cheryl hines
And it was, you know, we're not going to take this.
This cannot be how our elections are held.
And, you know, for a moment in time, it felt like, oh, my gosh, they're really going to, whoo, they're going to redo it all.
Then it's every year.
Nothing.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Every year, it's people are outraged.
joe rogan
It seems like it escalates.
cheryl hines
People love to be outraged.
joe rogan
They do.
cheryl hines
It makes them feel like they're doing something.
joe rogan
They enjoy it.
They seem to enjoy it.
cheryl hines
They do.
joe rogan
Yeah.
A lot of that.
Well, it gives you a purpose.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, that's part of the thing of being, you know, if you think you're an activist, you know, you think you're out there affecting things and you're out there chanting and screaming and carrying the signs that the NGO has had print up and you're out there and you've got a purpose because otherwise you'd just be sitting at home watching TikTok.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Instead, you're out here saving the world.
cheryl hines
And people can see it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
But yeah, maybe organize a group to help people get their citizenship, to help people, to help people organize together to move things forward.
joe rogan
Yeah, the help people would be nice.
But the citizenship thing is kind of crazy because the borders were wide open for four years.
And they invited people into the country, essentially, helped them get in, gave them aid.
And then once they're in, now the new administration is trying to arrest them and capture them.
So both things are crazy.
It's crazy that you did this and that you just let these people and told them, you know, you're going to have a better life, come to America.
And then it's also crazy that now you've got armed masked people running up to people asking for your ID to check to see if you're an American.
Like both things are crazy.
cheryl hines
Both things are crazy.
joe rogan
But it's just there's no pathway, even if you've been here.
Like if you came over here 25 years ago and you've been a great person and you pay your taxes and you raise a family and like there's no pathway.
You have to go back to Mexico or go back to Guatemala or wherever you're from.
The only way to apply to do it the right way is you have to leave the country, which also seems kind of crazy.
Like you've built the life here.
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
Should be some kind of amnesty.
Now, I'm not saying that for people that are criminals or people that like just got here.
Like there should be some amnesty.
No, it's like, no.
Like if you were one of the people that just recently snuck across the border, like no.
Like this is crazy.
You haven't built a life here.
cheryl hines
This is going to be hard to that's a tough system.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Right.
If some people yes and some people no.
joe rogan
Oh, it's a tough system.
It's definitely a tough system.
It's tough.
The whole thing is tough.
cheryl hines
No, it's not.
joe rogan
Because we're a country that's established by immigrants.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
So it feels impossible.
joe rogan
But you can't have an open border.
You can't just have anybody come through because there's going to be a bunch of criminals that come through and you don't want that.
You don't want your country to be more crime infested.
You don't want your country to have murderers and cartel members just coming into the country and now getting citizenship and being able to vote and organizing.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
That's a good way to destroy your country.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, you have to have some way to vet whether or not people are good people.
Yeah.
But when you just let everybody in and you let 10 million people in, how do you unless they get arrested while they're here?
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
What do you do?
And even then, like a lot of them during the Biden administration, they were getting let go.
Sanctuary cities were letting people go.
cheryl hines
They weren't.
joe rogan
It's just crazy.
The whole thing is crazy because it's become a part of a political pawn because they just want a bunch of people in these swing states for the census.
So they get more congressional seats and if they get these people and give them the ability to vote, now you have a built-in voter base and you can just rig the election.
You could rig it that way.
cheryl hines
I need the white pill.
Yeah.
Or the grayish white pill.
joe rogan
I'm handing out gray pills.
We might be okay.
cheryl hines
That being said, we might be okay.
Things are headed in a pretty good shot.
joe rogan
It's possible that we could be okay.
But there's a bunch of things that have to happen.
But a bunch of things have happened that allowed us to understand how fucked we are, which is the first step towards fixing it.
cheryl hines
Admitting you have a problem.
joe rogan
The big one was Elon buying Twitter.
That was one of the biggest ones of all time.
cheryl hines
The problem.
joe rogan
No, the big solution.
Well, for the speech.
We found out when he bought Twitter that the government had been censoring people's speech.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
You can talk to Bobby about that.
unidentified
Crazy.
cheryl hines
It's crazy.
joe rogan
Crazy.
Censoring accurate speech by experts from Stanford, MIT, these people that were experts in their fields that say this data does not align with, you know, what you're saying does not align with the truth.
And this is what I think.
And these people were silenced.
They were kicked off Twitter.
They lost their careers.
It was crazy.
And the government orchestrated it.
That's not good.
We wouldn't have known that if Elon didn't buy Twitter.
cheryl hines
And you think people would be outraged by that?
You think a lot of people would be outraged on both sides of the aisle.
On both sides of the aisle.
joe rogan
They should be.
cheryl hines
About free speech being shut down.
joe rogan
People were happy with them doing it as long as it aligned with their values.
Yeah.
That's not good.
Yeah.
That's not good.
Good.
None of it's good.
cheryl hines
No.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's like we've got to have some rock-solid ethics and morals.
And if we don't have that.
cheryl hines
Where do we get those?
joe rogan
Jesus.
Jesus has to come back.
cheryl hines
Please.
joe rogan
If you're going to come back, Jesus, now's a good time.
But if he came back, everybody like it's fucking AI.
They think we're dopes.
Jesus is hovering over the Pentagon.
Please stop with this war.
cheryl hines
They're like, nobody believes it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That'd be the real problem.
That's going to be the conundrum.
Jesus is going to come back when AI hits its full peak.
No one's going to believe.
cheryl hines
They're going to go, ooh, there'll be a few.
But then that'll really divide like three people and the rest of the world.
joe rogan
It'll be the people that see like the Virgin Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich, those people.
cheryl hines
Which, by the way, I've seen pictures.
joe rogan
You never know.
What a crazy thing if that's how the Virgin Mary wanted to give you a sign right on a grilled cheese sandwich.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
I need to let you know.
God is real.
cheryl hines
I'm here.
It's like, oh, I was hungry.
I wanted to eat that, but now what do you do with it?
Put it in a baggie.
joe rogan
You got to save it.
You can't just eat it.
That's crazy.
cheryl hines
But then what happens?
And keep it.
Show relatives.
Keep it in the freezer.
joe rogan
I think we're going to need something that happens.
I hope it's not something bad.
Because one of the things when something bad happens is it unites us.
Like 9-11.
cheryl hines
I know, yeah.
joe rogan
9-11 united us.
cheryl hines
It did.
joe rogan
For a small amount of time, people were pretty awesome to each other.
And we realized that we're really together.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
We're supposed to be one group of people.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
I just hope it doesn't take something like that for us to snap out of this crazy right versus left thing because people just pick a side and adopt their pattern of thinking.
They adopt their whatever their values are, whatever their opinions are.
They just adopt a conglomeration of other people's opinions rather than forming their own.
And you can't question anything because if you do, you get cast out.
cheryl hines
And you have to make clear that the other side is really wrong.
joe rogan
And the other side's evil, and you're good.
cheryl hines
Yes.
joe rogan
It's good versus evil.
cheryl hines
It is good versus evil.
joe rogan
And with every election, this could be the end of democracy.
cheryl hines
Oh, every time.
Democracy is on the line.
Good Versus Evil Chaos 00:03:34
cheryl hines
This is the, yeah, I get sick of that one.
joe rogan
Yeah, Oprah said that when she was running for Conwell, this might be the last time you're ever allowed to vote.
cheryl hines
Like, is that on the table?
joe rogan
Do you think people are going to tolerate that?
For real?
Trump's going to be an emperor?
Okay.
cheryl hines
I know.
Yeah.
I know.
joe rogan
It's weird.
But that's how they get people riled up and get people to vote.
You got to, you know, you got to use hyperbole.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
You have to make people message.
joe rogan
If Bobby tried to run for president again, would you tell him, fuck you, like still way?
Would you say, look, we did this rodeo?
Enough, dude.
cheryl hines
He's not going to run again, but the baby Jesus.
If he did, you know, once again, I'm saying he's not running.
But I do feel like it would be different because before, I knew it was going to be crazy.
I didn't know why.
It's kind of like having a baby.
You know what's going to be hard, but you're not sure why until you have a baby.
And then you're like, every night, you're hoping your baby lives till tomorrow.
And it's a different kind of stress that you had no idea existed.
But with Bobby, I know now, I know what they're all up to.
I've heard, I've heard all of the stuff that comes out, the people that come out and they spend all day and night online going to events, trying to get him, attack him, expose him, paint him as this or that.
And it was a lot, you know, that was a lot.
And at the same time, it's so much bullshit that I know now what to expect.
Like just a lot of bullshit all day, every day.
And I would know more what to pay attention to and what to concern myself with.
Because before it was all coming at you every day, all day.
And also my own career, my own friends, my decisions got lumped in with that.
So everything changed.
Everything was changing all day, every day.
And I feel like the changes that have been made wouldn't have to – things have already changed.
Some things have changed.
So it wouldn't be in that state of chaos every day.
joe rogan
Right.
cheryl hines
It would be a different type of chaos.
joe rogan
Yeah, definitely.
cheryl hines
I see why people run again.
Because before, when I watched people run again, you watching it, and it's just like a, you can't, it's like a, you know, dumpster fire.
You're thinking, there's no way that guy is going to run again.
That had to be the worst four years.
Hillary.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
There's no way she can run again.
That had to be the worst time of her life.
And then they run again.
You know, and it's, did you, then you feel like, oh, now I understand why.
Because there's almost that idea of like, that's all you had.
You gave your best shot.
You pulled out all the stops from 1989 to, you know.
So like they can't say the same bullshit over and over.
Right.
So there's that part of it that's like, okay.
And I, and it's, I'm sure it's intoxicating for some people.
Vital Military Peacekeeping 00:04:28
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, people like winning too.
cheryl hines
People like winning.
joe rogan
So they want to, they want to be the person that's on the TV that says the new president of the United States.
They want to be that person.
I fucking won.
unidentified
You know?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's why people want to win an Oscar.
That's why people want to win everything.
They want to win.
They want to be the person on TV.
Everybody says they're a winner.
cheryl hines
Ah.
What about all the presidents before TV?
They didn't care.
Or, I mean.
joe rogan
I don't know.
I mean, one of the weirder presidents that was on TV was Eisenhower, because when he was leaving office, he told everybody to be careful of the military-industrial complex.
unidentified
He warned them on television his speech to the union.
joe rogan
You ever seen that?
It's kind of crazy.
Because this guy's, you know, decorated former president.
I mean, he's leaving office.
And as he's leaving, he's telling people to be careful.
That you have to be very wary that the military-industrial complex wants to go to war.
And that we have to be very wary about their influence.
This is a sitting president.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Who's announcing it to the nation?
And I think people were probably like, wait, what?
What was that?
I feel like that was in the late 50s.
When did Eisenhower give that famous speech?
61.
61.
jamie vernon
Farewell address.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
You want to see it?
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Let's play that and we'll leave with this because this is kind of nuts.
Because this is if this aired on television back then.
And obviously back then, there's no internet.
There's no VCRs.
There's no nothing.
So you saw it or you didn't see it.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And that was.
cheryl hines
And then you heard it secondhand.
And whatever opinions you get about it are from your neighbors and that's it.
joe rogan
And everybody shared their opinions and it just got washed away.
And no one really thought about it until the internet came around and people were allowed to review it.
So this is Eisenhower in 61.
dwight d eisenhower
Vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment.
Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.
Our military organization today bears little relation to that known of any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry.
American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well.
But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense.
We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions.
Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment.
We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.
Now, this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience.
The total influence, economic, political, even spiritual, is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government.
We recognize the imperative need for this development, yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications.
Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved.
So is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.
The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.
We should take nothing for granted.
Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals.
Grave Implications 00:04:41
joe rogan
Crazy.
cheryl hines
It is crazy.
So it's basically.
joe rogan
He was predicting exactly what we're dealing with right now.
cheryl hines
Which is just like the president should be responsible for keeping our country out of war.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And, well, also that there's a machine that wants to go to war.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because that's how they make money.
Because there's more money involved in that than anything.
cheryl hines
Oh, I've learned a lot about that, too.
joe rogan
That's scary.
cheryl hines
That's pretty crazy.
joe rogan
You don't want to be on the wrong side of that.
cheryl hines
No.
No.
I've seen some shit, man.
joe rogan
I bet you have.
cheryl hines
Like stuff I did.
I don't want to know.
unidentified
Was the most disturbing thing, well, what was the most disturbing thing?
Uh...
joe rogan
For you personally, going through all of it.
cheryl hines
Oh, for me.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
I think, well, definitely I was worried about Bobby's safety, you know, just watching him.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Especially, yeah.
cheryl hines
So that, and then, and then for me, you know, I everything changed and a lot of, and, I don't know, people just have, it was interesting to watch people change their attitude about me or that they I'm not the person they thought I was type of feeling, which is strange because I'm still the same person.
So that was really and still is to a sense very strange.
joe rogan
Yeah, but you find out who's real.
cheryl hines
Yeah, you do.
joe rogan
That's probably a good thing.
It's good.
Yeah, it's good for someone to betray you like that.
Oh, look at you, sweetie.
cheryl hines
See who rises to the top.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
It's true.
It's hard.
It's painful, though.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cheryl hines
You know?
joe rogan
It sucks if you really like that person and all of a sudden.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, and also just people that don't know you that they assume things that aren't true.
I mean, I sound ridiculous.
It's like, okay, get in line.
But it was different.
It just, I just did not expect politics to be such a part of my life.
unidentified
Yeah.
cheryl hines
I'm still shocked.
But, you know, but it's, it's, everything's good now.
But it was, there were times, and there still are times.
But really, the safety, Bobby's safety was the most stressful every day, all day.
You know, now he travels with the Marshalls.
And then that's a, and even when we, even when he was running, and that's why I do write my book, um, Unscripted, that, uh, you know, he was trying to get secret service protection for so long and was denied, which is also right while he was running, yeah, which is crazy, it is crazy.
joe rogan
Um, and yeah, the Biden administration is like, nope, no, yeah, everybody else can have it, but not you.
cheryl hines
So crazy, yeah.
Um, and then when he and then he did get secret service after the assassination attempt on President Trump, but it wasn't for very long because the election was, you know, close anyway.
But just that just having secret service and security around you all the time is crazy, you know, and you learn, and also, you know,
what's disturbing, like you learn, you learn what to look for and what to do in an emergency and what, you know, things that you would never really things that you wouldn't think about.
But then now you walk into a room and you look at people and you're like, okay, that guy's sweating a lot for no reason.
You look to see what's suspicious, what's going on, what's and you see things differently and it's just like you have to have your guard up for the kooks.
Yeah, a lot of kooks.
There are a lot of kooks.
People Need Uncensored Discourse 00:03:13
joe rogan
Yeah.
And, you know, this is a conversation we had recently.
Like, I think they've weaponized those kooks.
They make these people think that they're doing something important.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, and there's, there was a lot of talk like that.
Like someone needs to step up and do something.
Like, what?
What are you saying?
Like, what do you say?
unidentified
What the fuck?
cheryl hines
Right.
joe rogan
What the fuck are you saying?
unidentified
Right.
cheryl hines
Right.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, imagine advocating for that and being thinking you're on the good side.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
You should do something.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That the only solution is that you can't do that.
Someone needs to do that.
Yeah.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
I'm glad we're glad we're leaving this on a high note.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, it's, it's, um, it is an undeniably bizarre time.
You know, this is a bizarre time.
And again, I think it's uniquely bizarre today because we know more about what's really going on than ever before.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, we know more about the behind-the-scenes stuff than ever before.
cheryl hines
And just there's yeah, but and it's it's it's about uh who do you believe?
That's the thing.
Well, once again, that's why people really like your show because you're not trying to win anything.
You're not trying to get anything.
That's why people really respond to it.
joe rogan
I think people need some kind of uncensored, uncontrolled discourse.
cheryl hines
There's hardly any out there.
joe rogan
No, most of it is controlled by advertisers.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And it's just not good.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
All my friends who do shows where they're on some sort of a show, like you, you have to, you get notes.
People come in.
You got to cut this out.
Can't talk about that.
Don't bring this up.
This is going to piss off that company.
This is going to do this.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's not good for us.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And that's the beautiful thing about the internet.
Like, this is a thing that they never saw coming.
And this is what's so important about Elon owning Twitter.
You know, he just turned it into the Wild West, like, go crazy.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's, that's what we need.
That's the only, you get a lot of bullshit.
There's a lot of, everyone's going to get tricked a few times.
But for the most part, reality resurfaces.
Hmm.
So that's our way to do that.
cheryl hines
I'm going to try to remember that.
For the most part, reality resurfaces.
joe rogan
Yeah, when you try to squash it for a long time, no matter what, eventually it pops up.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
You go, oh, this is real.
cheryl hines
Yeah, because there's only one truth, right?
There are a lot of different lies, lies, lies.
But then one truth, and if it, like you're saying, keeps coming up, it's really hard to deny.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
The problem is like with government, the truth is so difficult to understand.
There's so much going on.
There's so many moving pieces.
You're like, okay, well, why is that happening?
Well, who's doing that?
Well, why is that?
Why did they make that decision in the first place?
Well, what happened to that ruler?
How did he get kicked out of office?
We funded that.
Like, oh, God.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it's just so, the rabbit hole goes so deep.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
joe rogan
And that's one of the reasons why people get so obsessed with all this stuff because you could lose your mind just chasing down every single story.
cheryl hines
Yeah.
Or just make a new one.
The Rabbit Hole of Truth 00:00:52
joe rogan
Make their own.
unidentified
It's easy.
cheryl hines
It's easier for them.
Just make a new one.
They do not have to worry about the facts of what's real.
That's just like, oh, did you hear about?
joe rogan
Unscripted.
You did the audio for it.
cheryl hines
I did.
My sister says to play it like at least one speed faster.
joe rogan
Your sister's telling you you has like a subtle way of her saying you're boring.
cheryl hines
Why are you talking so slowly?
joe rogan
Oh, that's funny.
cheryl hines
But yeah, it's interesting.
I mean, I think it, of course, I hope I think it's interesting because I wrote it.
But yeah, there's definitely stuff about Kerb, stuff about the Bobby, the politics.
Bobby before politics, Bobby after politics.
It's great.
It's a wild ride.
joe rogan
All right.
Well, thank you very much, Cheryl.
I really enjoyed talking about it.
cheryl hines
Thank you, Toby, Series.
unidentified
Me too.
joe rogan
Thank you, everybody.
unidentified
Bye.
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