Ryan Graves, a former Navy F-18 pilot and aerospace engineer, debunks WMD-linked UAP theories while detailing 2015’s "Gimbal" and "GoFast" incidents—objects defying radar near Langley and Wright-Patterson bases—and recent sightings across 10 U.S. states, including high-G maneuvers evading detection. He argues classified programs like Ning Li’s anti-gravity research or Eric Weinstein’s propulsion claims may hold answers but warns secrecy stifles progress, proposing unclassified public collaboration via RF tracking and Safeaerospace.org. Speculating on extraterrestrial origins, Graves suggests UAP could stem from alien tech adapted to different atmospheres or even interdimensional sources, while Rogan highlights unexplored underwater activity and historical civilizations’ advanced capabilities. Both agree full transparency could revolutionize science—but legal risks and bureaucratic hurdles persist, leaving the mystery unresolved despite growing evidence. [Automatically generated summary]
So, you know, I've had the privilege of interacting with a lot of government organizations over the past few years as I've been digging down this rabbit hole.
Law enforcement at a federal level, DOD, executive branch, legislative branch, and some of the folks that I've come in contact with, they specifically work on weapons of mass destruction.
So that's their job.
So if there's a loose nuke in the United States, among other agencies, they would be some of the people that would be sitting in a skiff for 24 hours a day trying to figure out where it is and to go get it.
So you can imagine that would be their number one priority.
So I engage with these folks.
I ask them, you know, what's the sense here?
You know, people are kind of starting to panic a little bit, and this message is getting out there more and more broadly.
And they assured me that's not the case, that there is not a loose nuke or other type of weapon of mass destruction that these objects, whatever they are, are pursuing right now.
Otherwise, they would be working in a SCIF nonstop to make that go away, that problem go away.
You know, that's part of why I have a high confidence level that this is not a response to a massive imminent, you know, weapons of mass destruction threat on the eastern seaboard.
So I just want to try to dispel that rumor right now.
I've seen a lot of talk of that online.
And I don't, you know, although this is a, you know, I think a dangerous and scary situation that's going on right now, at least from that particular angle, that's not the indications I'm receiving.
So either the government is holding back that secret from the direct resources within the government that are responsible for finding these systems, or they're not working the issue because there isn't an issue there to work.
So the thing that I had heard was that it was a missing nuke from Ukraine.
And if that was the case, so what could they do?
Is there any truth to this idea that we have the type of drone capability that we could send these things out and they would search for gamma radiation and they'd be able to find a nuke?
And they were expecting them to come again for the third year in a row over Langley.
And there was some effort put forward to be able to better understand these when they came back.
And they did come back, but they came back in a much wider swath, right?
Now we have them all over New Jersey, all the way up to Massachusetts.
And it's hard to tell exactly with the quality of the reporting right now, because it seems to be, you know, the bigger this story gets, the more people are just looking up and seeing anything and pointing it out.
But, you know, there are reports from Texas to Florida to California, Ohio, Minnesota, Pennsylvania.
I mean, it's not just New Jersey itself, it seems.
And even the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base was shut down for a drone incursion just this last Friday, a couple days ago.
So this isn't just a one-off event.
It is in the sense that it's so large and so many people are paying attention to it.
But this has been occurring for at least three years around military bases.
And that's nothing to say with the incidents that we were seeing over the eastern seaboard and other training ranges that fighter pilots were seeing as they were doing their operations.
I'm a little hesitant to link it to that, the full story that we've been having here, this full conversation, but at least for three years, this has been occurring.
So, you know, kind of getting back to your question, you know, why can't we do more about it?
It's a hard problem, I think, for a number of reasons.
It's hard, but it's very solvable, right?
I think this can be solved.
We can solve it.
But right now, kind of the word on the street is that These objects appear to be coming from over the ocean.
There's senior congressmen, there's Coast Guard personnel, there's law enforcement that are seeing a large number of these come from somewhere over the ocean.
I don't know if that means necessarily they're popping out of the water physically or if they're coming from some unknown location in the water and then proceeding over the coast.
I don't know how that relates to Ohio.
That's a pretty long trip if they are coming over the ocean.
And from the videos I've seen and the conversation I've had, they are detecting these objects through kind of normal mechanisms like radar systems, optical camera systems.
They are flying very low.
In some cases, they seem to be operating as a group in the vicinity of each other, flying past each other, flying very up close to each other, and then proceeding to do whatever they are that they're doing.
It's unknown right now if they are emitting energy or not.
So, you know, like radio communications or their own maybe active sensor systems.
It's unknown.
I've poked on that front, and the best I can tell, the government doesn't know either.
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Like it's just very disturbing that someone could operate these things and have, I mean, what is the estimated number of them?
You just send them out there and they would have a task and they would go through whatever their task is and navigate via their GPS or whatever tracking system they're using?
And if they are sensing something, they would have to be using what's called passive sensors, right?
So, like, a camera system is passive, but if you're shooting, you know, a radar out and having it bounce off of something, that's active, right?
And that's easier to detect than a passive system.
So I could imagine, you know, a fully self-contained autonomous drone system that is doing something potentially with passive sensors that allows it to operate without emissions, which is going to make it harder to track.
If they're doing it at night, if they do have passive systems like some sort of an optical system, wouldn't that be hindered by the low light conditions or do we have stuff that...
Is able to detect whatever they're looking for at night?
Yeah, depends what they're looking for, but ultimately there is tech, there's electro-optical systems, there's infrared camera systems, not unlike the systems that we had on my jet.
But we were able to detect these objects with infrared when we were flying off the eastern seaboard.
There are a number of reports from law enforcement that their infrared systems are not able to pick these objects up.
And not just this year, but also the incidents over Langley last year, the pilots that respond to that incident, I've spoken to them, they weren't able to lock these up with their infrared systems either.
So they do seem to be exhibiting some type of signature management.
Based on what I've seen just in the public from reports and kind of amateur photographers and witnesses, some of them do seem to be making pretty sharp turns.
I wouldn't call them like physics-breaking turns, but they don't seem to be operating like a normal aircraft, right?
So they're down low.
They're making what appear to be pretty high-G turns.
Maybe like three, four, 5G turns at relatively low air speeds, which is indicative of them having a pretty significant power supply, right?
Anytime you turn like that, you're burning energy, essentially.
So for them to be able to make these high-G maneuvers and then remain in the area for another five or six or seven hours and still have the battery life or whatever's propelling them, to then go over the ocean to a point where they're untrackable, Again, I'm not really familiar with that type of capability either.
Yeah, I've heard multiple people, representative officials, saying, like, hey, government needs to step in and start being more clear, because people are just going to take matters to their own hands.
But again, this is the problem with social media, especially with someone like me who's just kind of scrolling for five minutes and going, what the fuck?
And then, like, you know, my kids ask me something, I gotta get out of the house, alright, let me put my phone down.
You know, so I haven't done any kind of a deep dive, and I did that purposely just to try to pick your brain.
But here's, I think, where a lot of the trouble's coming in from.
I think the government has to make the presumption at this point, based off the feedback from the DOD and others, that if this is not a foreign adversary, then we have to make the assumption that it's a U.S. citizen that's operating these.
Because of that, they essentially need a warrant in order to wiretap these.
Well, whether it's the reality of the situation or not, that's how they're proceeding, right?
And so to overcome that, you know, there's like a 120-page report that needs to be filed all the way up to the Deputy Attorney General of the United States in order to even intercept these signals that they may or may not even be emitting to be able to determine where they're going.
And so I think that's one part of what's slowing down this whole investigation.
On the other hand, for base commanders, they have limited authorities protect their base, but when they do, they need to submit basically a request all the way up to the Secretary of Defense.
So now you have this super politically charged situation with a lot of risk of objects flying over the U.S., If they take action and shoot one of these down, even with the Secretary of Defense's permission, they're on the hook if that thing takes out a school bus or otherwise damages someone's property.
While looking at Nuclear Regulatory Commission alerts, one confirmed there's radioactive material that has gone missing on December 2nd, 2024 out of New Jersey.
So, formerly trained aerospace engineer in college.
Joined the Navy immediately after with the hopes to go fly fighter jets for the Navy.
Was successful in doing that and I flew the F-18 Super Hornet for 11 years and two deployments.
Primarily operating off of Virginia Beach.
And pretty standard career until about 2013 or so when we came back from our deployment, we began to upgrade our radar systems.
When that happened, we put in essentially a much more powerful radar into our jet.
It took about eight months.
So you might fly with a newer radar in the morning, maybe an older radar at night.
And consistently, when we were flying with these newer radars, we were picking up a bunch of objects that were operating in our working area that we weren't seeing with the older radar.
They were performing in strange ways.
They would be stationary.
They would be around 250 to 350 knots, kind of meandering around the area.
Not really working together, per se, but kind of clearly operating in the same vicinity as one another, right?
So we weren't flying in formations, necessarily.
And we'd even see these supersonic as well, 1.1, 1.2 Mach, typically heading east.
And we'd only see them over the water.
We originally thought they were radar errors, some kind of software glitch.
But eventually we started to correlate these across other sensors, such as our IR FLIR system.
Our missile systems would lock onto these.
And we'd try to fly up to them, to see them physically with our eyeballs.
And when we do that, we wouldn't see anything.
We come within about 500 feet of these objects.
All our sensors are pumped into our helmet, augmented reality style.
And it would tell us exactly where to look and boom, we come right past this object and there'd be nothing there.
We'd circle back around and then pick it back up on our sensors.
It would be slightly displaced, but that was kind of status quo for a few weeks until we had a near miss with one of these objects right at the entrance to our working areas.
The pilot came back, canceled the flight, had a look of shock on his face and described as a dark gray or a black cube inside of a clear sphere.
And once that happened, we kind of had to come together as a squadron with the safety officer in our squadron and say, hey, you know, like, okay, what's going on?
This has kind of been rumor and conjecture, but, you know, we almost had a near miss.
You almost lost an aircraft.
You know, let's gather as much information as we can.
As it turned out, there are four other near misses that had occurred in the past month that pilots were too uncomfortable to even report.
And that really kind of kicked off the seriousness of this issue for us.
And we started filing paperwork, safety reports, and hoping and expecting that this would get resolved in some way as, you know, the proper people, whoever that was, got these reports and they could mitigate it in some way.
But that never happened, at least from our perspective.
So we essentially treated them as safety issues.
We would avoid them.
We wouldn't fly close to them.
And then in 2015, we left to go do what's called a pre-deployment workup cycle aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt.
So we train like we play.
You get the whole air wing there, 30 jets, 40 jets, and we're doing these very complex missions.
And there were a lot of objects down there as well.
They either followed us down there or they were already there.
Or solid spheres, some elongated spheres, kind of more tic-tac shape, if you will.
And during that workup cycle, that's when we recorded what's now known as the Gimbal and GoFast video.
And they almost had to shut that entire exercise down because there were multiple near misses while we were trying to do this.
And this is a big deal.
If they cancel that training mission, that means the people that are deployed essentially have to be there longer.
They have to wait longer.
So there's a lot of downstream effects.
So pretty big deal to even consider canceling a training mission.
You know, our training mission like this.
So, again, you know, we filed it up.
We didn't know what else to do with it.
And we went back to our training and left on deployment.
In 2017, a New York Times article came out.
I was now an instructor pilot in Mississippi and for the Navy still.
And on, you know, front page of New York Times, lo and behold, there are the video of the gimbal and the GoFast with the pilot's audio on there that we've heard now.
And I'm like, holy shit, you know, like, this is still going on.
Massive deja vu, as you might imagine.
And I saw that as like a cry for help, essentially, that these videos have now been somewhat smuggled out.
Yeah, they weren't able to gain a lock in their air-to-air mode, so they actually had to degrade down to an air-to-surface mode, kind of a manual locking mode, and that's that box that you see.
But I mean, in terms of the signature that it gives off with the temperature, or would you be able to see a visible means of propulsion that would be accentuated?
That's how fast the aircraft that is recording it is going.
The pilots do talk about how it's going 120 knots against the whim.
And in my recollection, it was going at a relatively slow speed for a fighter aircraft, around 100 knots or so, at those speeds, from looking at the radar data itself.
The sensors on the ships themselves, if they were looking there, would be able to detect these objects.
But we're not really linked into those people that are doing that on the boat.
The pilots essentially took this upon themselves to go investigate this, and they reported to Intel when they came back.
And that's where I saw the tapes.
Whether the air traffic management guys on the boat themselves then took it upon themselves to go try to detect these objects, I don't have that information.
I was never in that information stream, but presumably they would.
Is there a capability where, so if a fighter jet locks in on something like that, is there an additional source of some sort of satellite that they can team into or tune into where they can give them the coordinates and say, hey, this is at this exact coordinate.
So if you were flying out there and the aircraft that recorded that video was getting that on the radar, that information would be getting sent to other jets in the area.
There was a large training mission going on, and I'm not aware of anyone that, you know, was paying attention to those contacts that were, say, 50 miles away from where they were doing this fight.
But it shouldn't have been just self-contained into the aircraft itself.
And additionally, that information should have also been received by the ship itself, right?
They should have access to that same information that's being shared.
As pilots, we don't really get into the satellite game, if you will.
That's kind of like a different level than how we operate.
So it's feasible that a ship might call in other national assets to investigate, but we operate as a self-contained expeditionary group, so I don't know if that's part of their protocol.
Like, when you're talking about the safety hazard, you know, you've got this clear circle with a black square inside of it, and they're flying in this very unusual way.
When you described it to people, what's the feedback?
They're about a mile apart flying in formation, doing what they're doing.
The pilots were looking at that, had a hard time locking it, and then they kind of brought their attention up to this other object that's basically co-altitude with them, and that's the gimbal video.
And behind the gimbal, there was what they referred to as a fleet of objects, about four to six objects that were flying in a formation, like a tight formation, all within about a mile and a half of each other, in a V formation.
So they come, they turn, they get all discombobulated, and then they...
Flow back out into a clean formation, making a 180 degree turn.
And then the gimbal object, which we see start to rotate, that's the moment it actually changes direction, right?
So it's proceeding behind this formation.
It turns, the gimbal does its kind of, you know, its maneuver, and then it starts trailing in the opposite direction.
So you've got, you know, maybe 10, 12 objects that are out there operating in this area east of the ship.
We're already 300 miles out there.
And so where do they come from?
You know, what are they doing?
Are they assessing our fight?
Are they enemy combatants?
You know, for me, this is the conversation that I've been trying to have for almost 10 years now about the seriousness of having these unknown objects in our airspace.
It's a security risk whether, you know, they come from little green men or whether they come from our adversaries or if they just remain unknown.
And that's kind of the state we're living in right now with what's happening over in New Jersey and elsewhere.
We're having this massive uncertainty about what these objects are.
There's a lot of rumors.
It's causing fear and panic.
And once again, the Biden administration and the Pentagon are unwilling to have a conversation with the American people and share what information they have.
If this is something that they've been struggling with for all these years, and suddenly it's happening in a much larger capacity than it has in the past, they're not easily able to write it off, and they just don't have the answers.
Or perhaps they do have the answers, but they fall under a category of information, much like these objects, that they're not willing to have a public conversation about it.
And we're in this new realm of uncertainty when it comes to AI and it comes to computer-generated images and video.
I've seen me.
I've seen so much stuff that's not real.
I'm like, okay, I don't know what's real anymore.
Especially when it comes to something that's kind of blurry.
It's in the sky and you've got people on the ground.
I've seen so many fake ones.
So many ones that people have generated, you know, I'm friends with Jeremy Corbell, and Jeremy, I always send him, like, what the fuck is this?
You know, I'll send some stuff to him.
Is this bullshit?
And, you know, he's very good at, like, we don't really know.
I am very suspicious because of this.
This is what we know.
Like, let me send you some things that I know are not fake, but we still don't know what they are, and see the difference.
So we'll have these long conversations and text message or phone calls about stuff like that, but...
No one seems to be able...
There's not, like, one person you can go to.
I mean, you have your people that are dismissing everything, think it's just hobbyists and crazy people, but if they're not giving off signatures, like, that are standard with these normal drones, like these heat signatures, and they're able to stay in the sky for hours and hours at a time, just that alone points to, at least, if it's not our adversaries, if it's domestic, Superior technology that we're not even aware of right now.
I mean, how are they staying in the sky for five hours?
Like, what is the...
If you got, like, a top of the food chain drone, and who was it that is explaining to us the issue with why China has superior drone technology?
It has something to do with the FAA. Was it Andreessen?
So that the FAA and the rules and regulations have sort of stifled the development and the improvement of these domestic drones.
And so most of the hobbyist drones are coming from China.
And China, if you haven't seen, has...
Fucking incredible displays of drones.
Yeah, where they do like a drag in the sky.
It's amazing.
And it is because of regulations.
It's because of the FAA dragging their heels, being incompetent or at least being overwhelmed, where this has not been able to progress domestically the way it's been able to do in China.
And so it's...
That alone seems like a giant security threat.
The fact that China has had just full integration with the government and been able to have this technological innovation that allows their drones to be like super powerful.
Like what they're able to do with these displays in the sky, unbelievable.
Like really wild stuff to see.
That seems like many, many leaps above what we can do.
And, you know, the faux firework displays that these things put on are just one part of the puzzle, right?
Because warfare is changing.
It's changing drastically.
And this is, you know, something I've tried to raise the alarm bells on before the Ukraine war, but we're seeing it now.
Warfare is going to these highly mobile, non-traditional platforms where you can have a group of guys that are basically teenagers now going out and conducting operations with these small drones.
And God forbid that an adversarial nation is now employing those technologies here.
In the United States, and if it was Russia, if it was China, and they were doing it directly, that'd be the equivalent of a declaration of war.
I mean, they're essentially invading our land, right?
Is there some avenue where they might be hiring criminal gangs in some way to do this in order to create a level of...
I don't know.
And there are a lot of companies that, you know, within the private sector and, of course, within the normal defense contractor world that is building capabilities to be able to detect and mitigate drones, whether it's kinetically or through electronic warfare.
But we're not employing those.
And oh, by the way, the electronic warfare measures that have been employed against the New Jersey drones have been ineffective.
So they have tried to take these out with non-kinetic options.
Disabling their navigational systems, otherwise trying to fry them, bring them down, has not been effective.
so um is there any good footage that you could point to i don't even know where to look i've looked there's people on the news that have reported it but the one clip i was looking at they're just showing a plane so like that's not good i've i just found one but it looks like a guy in the woods i don't know what the video is you know yeah that's the problem when they took it i don't know when they shot it they're saying it was last night but it could have been could have been right yeah it could be bullshit
I like watching this stuff every once in a while but I'm a manufacturer of unmanned aircraft military-grade unmanned aircraft as you can see one of my systems here There's all of these mysterious drones going on off the East Coast and as a as a professional as a subject matter expert I I wanted to give you all my opinion on what I think could be going on with these drones.
I don't particularly believe that these have a nefarious intent.
I could be wrong, but I want to give you the truth and what I believe.
It's my own opinion, and I've not bounced this off of anybody, so if you think it's bullshit, whatever, that's cool.
I don't want to spread misinformation, as we know that There's a lot of that going around.
But anyway, back in the 1980s, Ronald Reagan had dismantled the nuclear program, and there were, with Russia, there were countless nuclear missiles that were disarmed and disposed of.
Well, there were Over 80, I believe.
There were over 80 nuclear warheads that were in Ukraine that came up missing.
We don't know where they are.
Maybe somebody does, but nobody really knows where these are.
I speak with some pretty high-level government officials on this stuff, and it seems as though that is the case.
So, I spoke to a gentleman.
A few months ago, who was trying to raise an alarm to the highest levels of our government, which they had their ears closed, about this one particular nuclear warhead that he physically put his hands on.
He physically touched this warhead that was left over from Ukraine.
And he knew that that thing was headed towards the United States.
Okay?
That is a very serious deal.
And everyone knows that the United States government, this administration, is pushing to get into a war with Russia.
We all know that.
We all feel it.
We all see it.
Okay?
Well, back up a few years.
Do you all remember when those drones were mysteriously flying across the Interstate 70 corridor from Colorado up into Nebraska, down here into Kansas, and out into Missouri?
Well, it was believed that those drones were looking for radioactive material because there had been some material that came up missing here in the United States.
And they felt like it was a high probability that it would...
Nuclear or the radioactive material would be taken along the Interstate 70 corridor heading east or west or south.
So, from what we understand, they were out there trying to find this radioactive material.
Now, drones, they have no reason to be in the air at night.
Unless you're doing some type of ISR work, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, you know, looking for bad guys, or looking for a victim, a search and rescue victim, or law enforcement, or some type of military project, right?
There's no reason for a drone to be flying at night, really, okay?
Because they don't see shit.
So...
Unless you have thermal optics, drones really don't see stuff.
You need to do mapping during the day.
If you're going to do farming stuff, mostly do it during the day.
The only reason why you would ever fly an unmanned aircraft at night is if you're looking for something.
Whether it be a person or trying to smell gas.
We have methane gas detection systems.
that can that can detect gas leaks and pipelines you really wouldn't use thermal optics for trying to find gas leaks just simply because the only way you're actually going to find a gas leak with thermal optics is if the gas leak is aggressive enough that it has a difference in temperature because radio thermal imaging it it creates a digital image based off the temperature variance so whatever different in temperature is It creates an image.
Usually gas leaks so slow that it goes quickly into ambient before you can even see it.
So we have special sensors that can detect gas leaks.
We also have special sensors that can detect radioactive material.
So with this gentleman that I had spoken with who was trying to raise the alarm, To try to get somebody in the government to say, hey, we need to work together to go try to find this nuclear warhead.
None of that ever happened.
They knew that warhead was on its way to the United States.
That's all that ever came of it.
Nothing ever happened.
This government did not do anything at all to help this gentleman raise the alarm and raise awareness that there is a very...
Yeah, the Glomar response refers to a covert CIA operation where a ship named the Hughes Glomar Explorer was used to recover a sunken Soviet submarine.
Can neither confirm nor deny.
Implication, when someone says, can neither confirm nor deny, they're essentially saying they cannot provide any information on the matter, leaving the question unanswered.
So they answered it without answering it.
Because they were compelled to answer, and they said, we can neither confirm nor deny.
Which is interesting, because if you're in a Senate hearing and someone says something like that, like, what are you...
And then the jump is that that weapon eventually ended up somewhere on the eastern seaboard and the people that would be responsible for investigating such an issue are not even aware of it, even while somehow our government is flying hundreds of drones around to detect it.
It's compelling.
It's interesting, but I don't know if it connects...
I think there's a few connections short of being able to say that's exactly what's going on here, especially after the conversations I've had.
That's the thing that everybody would really be worried about.
The second thing would be that our adversaries are using these things to siphon up information, that it's like some mass Wi-Fi router that's flying over cities and sucking up everybody's passwords.
As we move into this new, very bizarre realm of AI and now quantum computing, I had a conversation with someone last night who was explaining to me how cryptography and encryption and all this stuff is literally on the verge of being obsolete and that this is going to put the financial markets into a chaos.
All of your passwords, everybody's email, everything is out the window.
There's no more encryption.
It's not even going to be possible.
These things are solving Marc Andreessen explained it this way, that these quantum computers are solving equations that If you took every atom in the universe and converted it into computing power, the time it would take to solve these equations would be longer than the time that the universe would exist before it died of heat death.
And they're able to do it in minutes.
So, the concept is, and this is where it gets super weird, that this is proof of the multiverse because these computers are using the computing power of perhaps infinite parallel universes simultaneously to achieve these answers.
Which is like, what are you saying?
What the fuck did you just say?
Did you just say that if you took every molecule in the universe and converted it into computing power, it wouldn't be able to do this?
This thing that you have in a fucking warehouse somewhere?
That this thing has more computational power in this, it's like as big as this room, than the fucking universe, if it was a computer?
What are you saying?
And you're saying this is the proof of the multiverse?
What does that even fucking mean?
And what happens if China gets this online?
If we're able to do these equations, right?
It's kind of almost like proof of concept of the technology being efficient or efficacious.
If they're able to do that, What if someone is more advanced than us and gets this connected to AI and implements some sort of a strategy for complete global domination of power grids, financial markets, completely takes control of assets, closes down government computers, locks up databases, deletes any information that's pertinent to Who knows what?
Power grid, fucking informational structures, like satellites, cell phones, all of our radio signals.
It shuts everything down.
It shuts it all down.
We're fucking helpless.
Most cars have computers in them.
Most people don't even know this.
Your car has a computer in it.
When you have a Chevy and you bring it to the dealership, they plug it in to see what's going on.
My understanding is that this is something China's been looking forward to.
So what I mean by that is that they have not just been working on this technology in order to break our encryption now, but have been storing our encrypted data from in the past such that when they do have that breakthrough, they have a lot of data to be able to utilize it on, not just what's happening now.
I know this is absolutely happening because my friend, my friend Bobby, owns the Coda, the racetrack in town.
And when they had the Formula One race at his racetrack, they found these boxes that were connected to their...
This Wi-Fi system and these boxes were outside so the public Wi-Fi system had been compromised by these data-sucking boxes and so they called in Homeland Security they had them removed the whole deal but like someone had gotten to the racetrack and physically connected these boxes to a public Wi-Fi system How many times is that going on where people don't notice it?
This is not the first time they've done it.
They picked a race in Austin.
Yeah, we're gonna get all those fucking race fans, suck up all their data.
It doesn't even make any sense, right?
This is something that's probably been implemented before.
I think they typically refer to that as a man-in-the-middle attack.
So you think you're connecting to the regular Wi-Fi, but you're actually connecting to the adversary's Wi-Fi, sending your data through there, and then they send that to the original box that you thought you were communicating with.
By setting up their own servers essentially to serve as a man in the middle attack.
But back to your point about China trying to work on quantum computing on AI, I think China is probably one of the biggest motivating factors that the government has right now for opening up the conversation on UAP.
Right?
So we haven't had this peer threat that we have to worry about that has a totally different investment government structure than we have, right?
So in the United States, we have this capitalist market, and we have innovations that break out through that model, like OpenAI.
But there are some capabilities where they are not appetizing to the market itself.
For example, how do we just suddenly stand up a chip fabrication facility in the United States that competes with the operations in Taiwan?
It's not something that a VC is going to invest in.
It's going to take billions and billions of dollars.
Well, they did that because the government took a new approach.
They stepped in and said, we're going to financially support this.
We're going to open up the piggy banks.
We're going to help with regulations and laws, and we're going to make this happen as soon as practically possible.
That's the model that China uses all the time, right?
They see something, they go for it, they invest the money, they invest the resources.
There's a risk with that.
You could be wrong about the efficacy of the technology that you're trying to put forward.
It could be strategically misaligned.
But if China is having the same issues with the UAP that we are having, then you could imagine them putting a lot of resources into better understanding that situation in a way that we're just not equipped to do.
And the fact that this conversation has grown more, that their advancements have been getting better, I think there is this pressure right now within the U.S. government that if we do not further invest, somehow bring in the primary innovation makers within our economy, within the startup community, within the scientific community, into this problem, if it's still just buried in a classified area, then we're going to get outcompeted by China that is able to dump all these resources into it.
How do you do that, though, if these people that create these things are motivated by money, if they're motivated by profits, if they run major corporations?
How can you convince them to invest in something that is ultimately not going to pay off like it would if you were investing in a consumer product?
I mean, we have a model for that in the United States with deep technology and edge technology.
You know, these are capabilities that don't fit into a normal VC's life cycle of five or six years before you're seeing returns.
It might take 10 years before you have a product, right?
And there's a lot of risks that they could fail along the way.
But that's, you know, that's where we get a lot of our major innovations from.
That's where we see very exotic technology being worked on, like advanced propulsion, communication systems, energy production.
And every one of these has huge potential added value to our economy.
I mean, to the level that AI has, right?
So, you know, there's a couple ways you can go about it.
You know, you can either create a new investment cycle or structure that is more tolerant to the risk and more tolerant to extended time to returns, which, you know, you got to fight market force with that.
You could have the government step in, perhaps through the Office of Strategic Capital and others to be able to support venture capitalists that are looking to make investments in these longer term technologies, perhaps in concert with the National Science Foundation that does a lot of work in this area.
Or you can try to structure your technologies such that they provide value to existing capabilities during the research and development process.
So what I mean by that, and, you know, I've been working this problem for 10 years, Joe.
I've approached it, you know, with my nonprofit, Americans for Safe Aerospace.
I've been working in the private sector.
I've been collaborating with government and others.
And there is a path where the capabilities to better understand this topic are aligned with our defensive needs, right?
If we had total situational awareness of our airspace, that's a very valuable thing to the Department of Defense.
And those are contracts you can win.
Those are reasonable investments you can make through normal market forces.
And then you keep working to be able to...
Use those existing products and those markets to bring out technology that is related to the UAP topic, whether that be detection, perhaps propulsion, energy, things of that nature.
So you have to find these core technologies that the government wants that is also aligned with the better understanding of UAP. Now, the way you're describing this sounds like it could be done, but China's already done that.
There does seem to be investment that's been made.
There are talk that they are having the same problems and perhaps have been better motivated than we are to investigate ones that they have been able to recover.
You know, we focus on commercial aviators, military aviators, veterans.
We receive reports from the random person on the ground.
But what's really interesting, because of the work we've been doing, so many pilots have felt more comfortable reporting.
Every major airline is seeing this.
I've talked with pilots from every major airline.
Some of them are standing up their own UAP working groups within their airlines to be able to report on this.
I'm working closely with them on this.
But what's interesting is we get these reports from pilots and we can often then see similarities or even perhaps the exact same object that's being reported by people on the ground.
So one particular example over Atlanta Airport a few years ago, there was a relatively large object, brightly lit, about 8,000 feet over Atlanta.
Four or five commercial airliners called it in.
ATC didn't know what it was.
The object started to accelerate level due south to what I call conventional speeds, as fast as an airliner, and then took off much faster, continuing due south.
And all these pilots witnessed it.
We received those reports, and the next day we received a report from a random lady in Florida that happened to be basically due south from Atlanta.
Well, what do you think about what Trump is saying, though, that they already do know and that they have tracked it, but the government just does not want to tell us what's going on?
Well, that leaves us either an enemy or us, right?
So it either leaves us they're not concerned because this is something that they're doing with us.
What if they're trying to get us comfortable because they know that some real UAPs are on the way?
You want to go all the way out there.
If you really wanted to get people relaxed to the idea of flying saucers, like legitimate whatever the hell they are, wherever the hell they're from, if you knew that was coming and you didn't want mass panic, what would you do?
You would trickle it in.
You would trickle it in slowly.
You'd have a bunch of drones hovering over cities for weeks and months at a time.
You would get people really accustomed to the news cycle having UAPs in it, and then real ones show up.
Like you have a bunch of them hovering over New Jersey, you have a few of them in San Diego, you have them in different areas.
If you knew that UAPs were coming and you were in the government and you said, what can we do?
Well, you'd probably bring in psychologists and these psychologists would explain, Human patterns of reacting to change in environments, especially radical changes in civilization and culture and like what can be done to mitigate the brutality of this process.
Like the ultimate mass freakout that's going to come if UFOs come.
Get people just so accustomed to UFO, like the mask thing, right?
Sounds like a ridiculous comparison, but like Five years ago, if people were walking around wearing masks, you would go, what is going on?
They wanted to make it normal that things are in the sky you put things in the sky you put a bunch of things in the sky and you don't explain it and you have them there all the time and you let people speculate and You put a lot of wild theories on me.
Maybe they're looking for a nuke.
Oh, they're looking for a nuke Bobby heard they're looking for a nuke Timmy got an email.
Well It's probably not even it's probably our shit or or You know, some unknown agency is involved in this.
The government's not concerned because they know exactly what's happening.
That's why there's not shooting them down.
That's why they're not scrambling jets.
That's why they're not doing all these things that Trump's asking why they're doing this thing.
If you knew something was coming, if you knew that these things that you're seeing float in the sky that are a clear circle with a black square inside of it and they can hover at 120 knots completely still, which doesn't even make any sense, no heat signature, what is it?
What the fuck is that?
And what if a bunch of them are coming?
Put a bunch of shit in the sky.
Freak these dummies out.
That's what I would do.
I would get all of our best drones and just fly them around.
Hover over cities.
Hover over LaGuardia.
Hover over the White House.
Who gives a fuck?
Just get people weirded out and get them accustomed to UFOs.
The way we live is so entirely alien to people that lived just 200 years ago that if you brought someone from the pioneer days and you put them in a Tesla and then you drove them to the movie theater and then you took them to a concert, you'd be like, what the fuck is going on?
Well, some politicians just as soon as yesterday, Chuck Schumer, Robert Garcia in the house, they've started to kind of use the whole drone and or UAP in their messaging, right?
I was like, why does my Bluetooth keep skipping out when I'm trying to stream music?
But I realized that there were so many people connected to the Bluetooth, and if you have that Spotify thing on where you're sharing, it's like, I forget what it's called.
Like a bunch of people can contribute songs.
They can all like add to your little playlist while it's going on.
You need that extra 50,000 megapixels or whatever the fuck it is.
You know...
It's just, I don't know.
I think privacy is kind of gone.
And I think it's gonna be super gone with these quantum computers.
It's over.
Like, there's no privacy.
And I think the real problem is the financial market.
It's all numbers, right?
It's all just ones and zeros.
If somebody controls that before we do, if somebody breaks through with this type of technology and then just shuts all the other ones off, Like, how many...
And the problem is, if you don't do it, our enemy's going to do it.
And we're so shitty at communicating with other human beings all across the world that we've been stealing resources and overthrowing governments for so long that nobody trusts us.
And then while all that's going on, we're in the middle of creating an artificial intelligence that's infinitely smarter than us and might be working in parallel universes.
If you can do an equation, and you're telling me that this equation through these quantum computers is proof of a multiverse, what happens if AGI gets connected to the multiverse?
Do you even know?
Are you just doing it?
Do you even know?
Can you tell me what's the best case scenario?
What's worst case scenario?
Can you tell me what you've thought about?
Or instead of just fucking all gas, no brakes?
And everyone's all gas, no brakes.
We're all fucking hot rodders on the highway, headed towards this weird thing that no one really knows what it's going to be, but everyone agrees it's the greatest technological breakthrough the human race has ever experienced, and it's happening so fast, and most people are like, what?
What's going on?
What are they doing over there?
Most people, if they're not listening to podcasts, they're not on Twitter every day, and they're not on Facebook, and they're not really paying attention to this stuff, most people are blissfully unaware we're about to awaken a god.
Blissfully unaware we're about to connect to some insane technology that hasn't even been It's so insane that it's sort of like one of those things where somebody tries to tell you how many stars there are in the universe.
When they were saying that it can compute something that all the world's supercomputers, it would take some septillion number of years to do, that it can do it in 15 minutes?
What are you even saying?
I don't even know what you just said.
If you told me how many zeros to write, I could probably keep doing it until I got to the right amount of zeros.
I don't know what the fuck that means.
My brain's good for like 150, 500 people.
That looks like about 3,000 people.
I was at the Formula One racetrack.
I'm like, how many people were seeing M&M? I'm like, how many people are here?
Well, if I was an advanced civilization that had already passed this stage, maybe this is like a common stage.
Maybe this is just like how bees all over the world make beehives.
They all do the same thing, right?
Maybe this is a strange stage that intelligent life gets to when it reaches a point of technological sophistication where it can create An artificial version of a thinking being.
And then that thinking being, of course, creates infinitely better versions of itself and figures out a way to harness power in a way that's just...
We can't even comprehend, which is what a quantum computer connected to AGI would be able to do.
Maybe that's like...
Maybe they know that this happens and they're like, oh, it's about to happen.
And so then they come.
Like, wasn't there a meeting?
Some sort of a...
There was another good tinfoil hat one.
I was like, ooh, what are they talking about?
There was some super top secret meeting with the people from the James Webb Telescope because of something they had discovered.
There was some thing that they had seen that they decided, and I don't know what that means.
You know, if you really wanted to get terrified, you'd say, oh my god, an asteroid's coming.
And it might be that.
Or it might be there's some new thing that sort of rewrites the date.
Of the beginning of the Big Bang, which is they're kind of starting to talk about doing that now.
There's some people that want to push the creation of the universe back to about 22 billion years instead of 13 point whatever it is now.
Or there's something that they know is headed our way.
It is, I mean...
It is possible.
We're doing it.
We send things to Mars, right?
And if we know That we're going through this thing right now.
We're about to create a AGI. We're about to implement quantum computing in this country who knows what they're doing in other countries.
If this is just like a thing that beings go through and we get past this and then we find another planet out there that's also like dropping nuclear bombs on it.
We would probably start circling that planet and making sure they don't fuck the whole thing up.
I mean, it just seems like to be...
It's probably insanely difficult to get intelligent life to the position that we're in right now in a volatile universe that's subject to natural disasters, asteroid impacts, super volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, all different things that could wipe out technology and bring it back to the caveman days, you know?
If all that is known and this is going on all throughout the universe, it would probably be in their best interest to sort of protect this investment in evolution and not have us knock back to the Stone Age and have to start all over again.
Not have us nuke ourselves to the point where there's like 13 of us left, you know?
And if you can't, I have to think that it's a military intelligence thing.
Like, you don't want the enemy to know what you're capable of, which I totally understand.
If that's what's going on and that's why they can't tell us, that actually makes sense.
But if it's not that, and it's that we are experiencing contact on a regular basis with something that we can't explain or understand, you don't have the right to that.
You don't have the right to that information.
That's not yours.
That's the human races.
People love to have fucking super top secrets That no one else can know and you're in the end, but you can't have that one.
You can't have that one.
If you're telling me that you have to do it because we've developed some sort of a gravity propulsion system that's infinitely superior to anything the Soviet Union has or the Russia has or China has, Fine.
That's not my business.
I'm not in the business of the military and national security.
If that's why you can't tell us, I totally understand.
But if you are in contact with fucking aliens, and you know they exist, you know there's something that visits us, whether it's from another dimension or whether it's from another planet, that's not yours.
That's not yours to tell.
You can't treat us like fucking babies, like we can't handle this.
If you actually have recovered a crashed UFO, look, I understand the implications of national security if you're trying to back-engineer that thing.
I understand that.
If you're saying, like, we have to get to this, if China gets to this, this is a game-changer, we're fucked, I get it.
Anything else, you have to tell us.
Because it doesn't make any sense that you, some unelected official, some guy who's working in coordination with Raytheon or whatever the fuck you're doing...
You can't keep that shit secret.
That's the world's information.
You know, that should be a crime.
This is something the human race needs to know.
We didn't know it was bullshit.
Look, again, if it's our stuff and we can't say anything about it because we can't let China know that we have that and we did huddle up these fucking physicists in some obscure college and we did create some wild shit that the Rest of the world is not really ready for or doesn't understand yet.
You know, I think there's two conversations that kind of go on in this topic, right?
And I think they both help each other out.
And you've been talking about it right now.
They don't have the right to keep these essential pieces of knowledge from us about our universe, right?
And I see that as the conversation around disclosure.
What does the government know?
What are they going to reveal to us?
And we can integrate it into our knowledge.
But I think there's an as important side of the conversation It's called discovery, if you will, right?
But what can we learn in the public sphere outside of the classification window that allows us to understand what's going on outside of the reins and control of the government itself?
And I feel like they're mutually supportive, right?
The more disclosure and conversation there is within government, the more that people are motivated on the outside to investigate this and research it and invest into it.
And the more that that work is done, it pressures the disclosure side of the conversation to keep up with the conversation and share with it.
Now, I don't know if we're going to get to a point of full disclosure, like you just talked about, without increased pressure on the discovery side, on the public side, because I think they would be content to keep that information quiet.
There was like a few computers connected, right, by physical cords or something, probably.
But that time period, we did not have what he was describing if what he was describing is accurate.
And then when you see that gimbal footage, that thing is moving exactly the way he described it.
Where he said, it's built like your classic flying, that's actually an image of it right there, that little model that we have.
That's what he described.
So, 1989, he's saying that this thing, when it would fly, it would turn sideways.
It would turn like 90 degrees, and that's where it would, whatever the fuck kind of generator that's inside of it, it would point it in the general direction it wanted to go.
That's what the gimbal did.
The gimbal turned in that way.
And what he's describing in this reactor is some sort of an element, and it's element 115. Whoever has created this thing is a stable version of this element, and when it's blasted with radiation, it creates some sort of a warp element.
In space-time and in some way, whether it's gravity or whatever it does, it folds time and it just shoots off at insane rates of speed.
But the things inside of it, I would imagine, aren't experiencing g-force the way it does the traditional propulsion system.
It's the only way a biological thing could survive, right?
But then I'm thinking, why would it even be biological if it's so much more advanced than us?
We're already creating artificial limbs.
We're already creating artificial eyes.
We're already putting neural links into people.
And we're fucking apes.
We're apes.
And we're like, drill a fucking hole and stick some wires in there and let's see what we can do to Timmy.
Now Timmy can fucking use his eyeballs.
Noah, the guy who was in there, was the first ever neural link patient.
I mean, fighter jets, they used to be barreling around out there looking for objects, looking for targets, but we're able to integrate and update all the technology that allows us to interact with the world.
It's not put right into our brain yet, although they are working on that.
So maybe those things are what happens when technology and biology integrate over a long period of time.
And they probably have eliminated all of our primate Desires and weirdness that makes progress problematic.
You know, greed and envy and trying to steal from resources from other countries and invasions and tribal behavior and manipulation and propaganda and lying.
They probably can all read minds, so there's no more lying.
And they've no need for physical muscles.
That's why they look like these little fucking spindly things.
It kind of makes sense.
Like, that's where evolution and technology, if they merged, that's what it would look like.
It would look like some weird fucking thing where they all look the same, so nobody gives a shit.
And they control...
One of the things Lazar said, these things have no...
Switches or buttons or there's no controls inside of them.
So he thinks they're controlling them with their minds.
We talked about China a little bit and some theoretical ways they might be investing in these deeper technologies.
I've spoken with people that are intimately involved in deep technology at the National Science Foundations and others.
What brought them into this conversation?
I realized that we were falling behind on these capabilities because they attended an international consortium.
Believe it or not, there were several members from China there, and they very specifically were asking for collaboration in some of these very deep technologies.
So, you know, we talked about how gravity manipulation kind of went dark for a while.
Well, they call it something slightly different now, and it's something that China and others are actively researching.
Yeah, so extended electrodynamics essentially is a series of equations that we utilize to understand the electromagnetic spectrum.
But there's like a large portion of those equations that we kind of just throw out because we don't utilize them in our normal engineering and scientific work.
So they're there, they're part of the equation, but we really don't know how to use them yet.
And people are starting to think that by integrating the full understanding of electrodynamics to extended electrodynamics that there are gravitational effects that pop out that we can utilize for technology.
Well, I might not know it as full as you do, but there have been a number of instances within the United States where people have been trying to do work to manipulate gravity through large concentrations of energy, electromagnetic effects, things of that nature.
And very recently, I forget the year, I don't know if you have that information, Jamie, but...
I think it was 2013 or around that time frame where she had kind of a breakout paper which she was claiming was utilizing some older techniques and she was able to modify the mass of an object, essentially the force of gravity upon it.
My understanding is that paper went out and then she essentially disappeared for a number of months, like a year or two.
So, if you were the government, let's just say they, you know, if you were them, and you wanted to work on some very, very advanced, if you had some knowledge that this stuff was possible, But you couldn't put it in the private sector because then it would get pilfered.
It would get infiltrated by Chinese spies, which happens all the time, right?
Wouldn't you hide it away?
Wouldn't you squirrel it away somewhere?
Like, if you're doing the right thing, if you're being intelligent about it, wouldn't you—if I wouldn't—it essentially can't be public because it is in the interest of national security because it's such a big deal.
Like, if they develop a propulsion system— That is completely reliant on gravity.
And they figure out, like, they're bending time, just flying places instantaneously.
If that's the future of space travel, like, whoever gets there first, that's a big fucking deal.
That's a really big deal.
And that can't be out there in the public, where China could steal the data, or Russia could steal the data, or Iran could steal the...
If we're the sole superpower in the world, Then I think it makes sense for us to hold that information back and develop it on our pace because we're not worried about competitors.
They're going to catch up to us and potentially leapfrog us.
But when we're operating in a world where we have near-peer or peer adversaries such as China that do have the ability to potentially work on the same technology, that's where the model breaks down a bit, right?
Because if we're artificially slowing our progress in order to maintain the secrecy, And someone is catching up to us, our only real solution at that point is to activate, you know, the millions of super smart and motivated people in our country to start pushing ourselves ahead, lest we get leapfrogged by countries that can do that through their own private investment, such as China.
It's so crazy, and it's, you know, it's one of those stories where it's basically impossible to validate it.
So, you know, like a lot of the stories I hear, you know, I often don't have all this evidence that I can work from, so I, you know, I throw it in the database in my head, and I look for comparisons, right?
Just like the gimbal video and how it maneuvers.
Like, well, that's interesting.
That kind of lines up.
It doesn't totally validate the story, but that's kind of how I approach this topic.
I'm not there to immediately judge whether it's true or not true.
It's just kind of additional information I can use.
Just like that photo I sent you, right?
That is just some random lady in her backyard.
But as it turns out, multiple pilots and commercial airliners saw the same thing.
That's why, you know, with these cases in New Jersey, what's most compelling for me are these, like, they're not the images themselves, but it's these elected officials, you know, law enforcement officers and others that are, like, very flabbergasted at what they saw, right?
They're not just like, well, yeah, there's something, but, I mean, they're pissed off.
They're very confident what they were seeing was not normal.
They're having a hard time putting words to it and having a proper photo, but...
As you can tell now, I think it's not easy to just put your iPhone up in the sky and grab a photo of something that's far away, right?
And so these guys were kind of suspicious of whether or not this thing was actually taking a photo and zooming in and getting a photo of the moon.
So they put a blurry photo of the moon on a screen and then stepped to the back end of the room and zoomed in on the blurry photo that's on the screen and it filled it in with like high resolution and showed you all the craters.
Well, let me tell you, I think, what needs to happen here to be able to better understand this situation.
And I think this applies for New Jersey, but it also applies for the much broader kind of UAP conversation as well.
So I told you about discovery.
I told you about disclosure.
You know, I think we can only motivate the government so much by just knocking on the door and asking for information.
There needs to be a public, unclassified scientific investigation into this from the perspective of trying to attack it as a scientific anomaly, right?
Instead of trying to attack it from a request from the government to release new information.
So, I mean, I think this should be a national priority, frankly, right?
We need to have very senior people within the White House that care about this topic, that are leading the charge, perhaps at the Office of Science and Technology Policy, somewhere at that level that can lead this conversation and start to employ different organizations in a public, unclassified manner.
Such as Department of Energy, such as the FBI and other reporting sources, so that we can be able to gather this information, investigate it, and then form theories about how we can detect it, whether that be through NEXRAD data in the United States, whether that be through weather satellites, other large data sets that we can use to detect these disturbances.
And work with the Department of Energy to be able to put forward scientific ideas and then utilize their compute resources to be able to process and churn through all this data and see what pops out on the other side.
And I think that we can bring in organizations such as the National Science Foundation or National Science Council.
We can bring in National Science Foundation, excuse me.
We can bring in offices such as the Office of Strategic Capital and start to actually support the public interest in this conversation by having people that now can access these large datasets and these large compute to be able to run experiments, to bring forward new datasets and technologies, and have this be like a true national effort at a high level.
I don't think that the current structure of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office within the Pentagon serving as a whole of government Point is going to be effective, especially considering that they are technically charged with investigating potential crimes of the Pentagon itself, right?
Conflict of interest there.
So this needs to be raised to a much higher level.
And we have the resources in the United States to truly study this.
And I think by doing that, we could then, you know, potentially confirm what is being discovered through this unclassified method with classified censors, but leave it so that it's repeatable And unclassified so that the scientific and academic community can see the results of that and work off of it.
Would there be an issue with you would have to provide amnesty to the people that could potentially allied in these programs?
So like if you've diverted funding, if you've not been I'm completely honest to Congress about where the funding is going and you've had some sort of a back engineering program or whatever they have.
Would there be like criminal liabilities?
Would there be issues where a bunch of these people could get prosecuted?
So that would, if I was them, I would, you know, I'd keep hiding it.
I'd be like, fuck this, I don't want to go to jail.
But if you wanted to get full disclosure, it would seem like the only way to effectively make it happen would be to give amnesty to the people that had committed these crimes.
So it would become a real dilemma if they were actually crimes.
So one thing, especially at the last hearings we've heard, is that there needs to be stronger whistleblower protection laws, right?
Maybe you've heard that.
I've updated my thinking on that.
I've done a lot of research on whistleblower protection laws in the United States.
And it's actually quite interesting.
You know, we've had whistleblowers from the executive branch whistleblow to the legislative branch in the past.
We had the church committee.
We've had thousands of people that have come forward and shared classified information with Congress outside the bounds of the executive order that allows for the creation of classified information.
None of them have been ever prosecuted.
Now, they may have faced ramifications such as a loss of security clearance.
They may have lost their job.
Those are real risk.
I don't want to downplay them.
But the way the system is currently set up, there's an executive order that allows for the creation of classified information.
You have the National Security Act that was created in Congress and signed by the president.
And these are the two laws that essentially allow for the creation of that type of information.
So when a whistleblower goes to Congress and shares that information, the Congress people are just as susceptible and vulnerable, perhaps, to having classified information that they're not privy to, right?
So they're in legal jeopardy in a sense.
For there to be prosecutions in Congress or from the whistleblowers themselves, the Supreme Court would have to step in and adjudicate that ruling between that executive order and the National Security Act.
And that's never happened.
They don't want to step in on that legislation.
They've had, you know, I don't know how many years, but decades and opportunities to do so, but they choose not to.
So we're in this kind of stalemate where by action, by inaction, whistleblowers have this unspoken protection, if you will, to come in and share that information, lest the Supreme Court step in and change their precedent for the past several decades.
So there's no reason that any of these potentially susceptible whistleblowers that do fear legal ramifications for those activities couldn't come in to Congress, set up a very quiet meeting, share what they have with these Congress people, and allow them to then run with that information, clearly away from any personal identification from that whistleblower.
That's the world we live in now.
We don't have whistleblowers doing that, and I think some of the messaging has been inaccurate claiming that we need to have stronger whistleblower protection laws because that's probably not going to happen.
I don't think Trump wants stronger whistleblower protections.
I don't think he wants to enable people that would be calling out actions of the executive branch to Congress strengthened.
That's not necessarily aligned with some of the activities that happened with Colonel Vindman and the Ukraine incident, where they essentially utilize those whistleblower laws to share information with Congress about what they perceived as wrongdoings.
So I don't see those laws getting stronger.
But we're in this kind of weird false dichotomy right now where people are asking for them and not willing to come forward.
But ultimately, I think we just need someone to step up to the plate and come forward to Congress with this information to be able to move the conversation forward on the disclosure side.
So what you're saying to me, what it sounds like is like you're almost like advocating for a complete restructuring of how the information gets disclosed.
Instead of the way they're doing it now, like someone come in and sort it out.
Because I think you're uniquely qualified and obviously very invested in this.
You wouldn't want someone who's not invested in this leading this.
This is a super complicated, nuanced rabbit hole that you have to go down and you have to be balancing out all the possibilities in your head at the same time while you're trying to get this information out.
And whatever you guys experienced, whatever those things were, if that isn't ours, we should probably know.
We should probably know.
And I don't know what it is.
I don't know if it is ours.
I get that if it is, you can't tell me.
I get that.
But if it's not, what's going on?
What do you think it is?
Like, if you had to guess, some of it's got to be ours, right?
Yeah, I mean, multiple witnesses seeing capabilities of craft operating in flight regimes that we don't have the technology to do.
So that's step one.
Step two is I've been a lot like a blind man touching an elephant.
You know, I don't know necessarily it's an elephant yet, but I'm feeling a tail, feeling a trunk, feeling the foot.
And what that elephant represents is the government's classified work on this topic.
I've butted up against it through people that have been actively engaged in programs that are investigating this in ways that are not public.
So I know that there is something there behind the scenes.
I don't know how deep it goes.
I don't know specifically the type of, like, the total amount of work that's being done.
But it's very clear to me that there are boundaries that I've touched, others have touched, that represent that work.
So, it would make sense.
It would be a line that the government would be very interested in this technology.
And I think it's, you know, I think it's time that we've put the proper protocols and processes in place so that the public can discover this information.
We have the technology, Joe.
Like, it's not that we don't have the technology.
I mean, I'm personally working on space situational awareness sensors that we can put in space in order to maintain custody of these objects.
I think that there was probably a presidential order at some point in the past that is likely still in effect.
And, you know, unless another president is fully read in and countermands that order, then it's business as usual.
And perhaps that's one of the reasons they don't tell presidents a lot of information on this is because they want to maintain that effect of authority, keep it in play, so that another president doesn't countermand it.
And we might have integrated some of these capabilities into some of our technology that we might look out the window and see, right?
But deep in the bowels of the system, you know, there might be capabilities that were discovered or motivated through the investigation of these objects, right?
So I could see why they're...
I agree with you 100%, right?
And I don't believe that 100% of the information should come out.
You know, I mean, I've worked in secured information, I've worked in the military, I understand the needs for these capabilities, but the core information, that we're not alone in the universe, potentially, there's no government on Earth that has a right to hold that information.
Think about how that would motivate us as a populace, right?
To have this care on a stick out to say, here's how we access the rest of the galaxy.
Imagine what that would do to our technological innovation.
How many millions of kids right now would go to school in order to be engineers and scientists to be able to work on this?
It would completely change the world.
Maybe we'd have, you know, less Facebook apps and things of that nature and AI wrappers, but we would be working on deep, important technology that's going to unlock the rest of the universe to us.
Well, I would hope they wouldn't be us, that they would be past what...
Look, human beings today, especially if you follow like Steven Pinker's work where you look at crime and violence throughout history, human beings today live in the safest environment that's ever existed for people, relatively overall, despite all of our problems.
It's trending in a way of more peace.
But if you think about No, I mean, no violence at all.
None.
Ever.
Just, like, a complete shut-off of everything.
That's what you would have to be if you were a civilization that's eclipsing all the problems that we have here on Earth, that's bypassing all the war, all the bullshit, the destroying the environment, the inequality and the allocation of resources and the control of the populace.
That's all out the window with this super, super sophisticated society.
I think that is – that should motivate us like probably more than anything to get our shit together, to realize like this is possible.
Like this is the trajectory that these intelligent species go through on their road to evolution, their road to enlightenment.
And they bypass this terrible stage that we're at right now where we're worried that these drones are searching for nuclear bombs because someone might decide to do some sort of a terrorist thing.
Because, you know, there's wars going on over the...
Just like you can only think of a number of so many things.
You can't think of all the stars.
I don't think our biology can keep up with the input of all this technology.
I think we're getting numb.
We're getting weirdly numb to it.
And I think it's just so...
It's so inescapable in today's society that if you want to be integrated into today's society, you have to have one of those goddamn phones.
You have to be connected.
Like, we're moving in this very particular direction, and it seems like if we get through this chaos, what these things that we're visiting, that are visiting us, all of the things that people describe, Of telekinetic communication, telepathic communication, the ability to explain things to them in a way that clarifies what they're here for and why they're here.
That's probably what we would do.
It sounds exactly like what we would do if we could get past all the problems of being a human being in 2024 and all the violence and chaos.
All the lying and propaganda.
If we got past that, that's what we'd become.
We'd become some star-faring creature that's completely enlightened and shows up and is just checking on the apes to make sure they don't blow themselves up.
Or maybe they're the robot custodians of the God-creating intelligent beings.
And that all they're doing is sent for AI. AI created them.
And sent them out into the universe so that when the apes get to the point where they start making nuclear weapons and bombs and reactors and cold fusion and gravity, you like, just make sure they get through this, okay, boom!
And then whatever the fuck quantum computing connected to AI becomes, that's what, it's like we're farming that.
That's something I thought about, you know, when you talk about biological creatures in these crafts, you know, it could be that those are not things that traveled here from far away and are just kind of hanging out, right?
They might have created these objects, even the biological substrates, if you will, here, using local materials and put them together because perhaps biological creatures are more...
Appropriate for the type of interactions they need to do instead of a fixed machine, right?
Like, if you can create life, which they're very close to being able to create fake artificial life, like single cell forms, haven't they created, like, aren't they creating artificial embryos?
The only thing that would change my mind on that is if they truly have some kind of faster and light travel that allowed them to transport, you know, physical objects from extreme distances to nearby.
Because then the cost of sending that information is irrelevant because they can just send things over.
So I could see both sides of it, but it's something interesting to think about.
Imagine the science and technology fields that a full understanding of this conversation would open up.
I mean, it would open up fields of knowledge that we can only imagine right now.
Even if we don't understand how they're doing it, if proven to be true.
Everybody has to stop and go, okay, what's going on here?
Like, how is that thing moving that quickly?
Like, where's it coming from?
How did it come from 2,000 light years away?
Like, how is it even possible?
And then they have to figure it out.
And how?
I don't know.
I mean, what is your take on the crashes?
Because that to me is always like, God, if you're so advanced, you can come here from another galaxy, why you fuckers keep crashing?
And then there's, I'm sure you're aware of Diana Pasolka and her stuff.
They call them donations.
Like the people that research these things, whether or not that's even real, but the people that, I haven't seen it, the people that say they go there and find these fragments on the ground, they refer to it as donations.
One thing I like to think about is, you know, their planet, you know, we're making a lot of assumptions here, but their planet might be designed a different way, right?
Like their atmosphere might have significantly less oxygen.
It could be much thicker.
And so they might have had, they might have bypassed this whole period where they had rocket propulsions and gas shooting out the back.
And so they, they might have taken them longer to get the space, but maybe they did so with a much more developed technology.
So then they apply that technology, they come over here, and now they're in a regime that perhaps they were unexpecting.
There's gravity disturbances, there's more oxygen in the air, there's different things that perhaps they either weren't expecting or just was different than their home environment.
And then, oh, by the way, there's these stupid apes that are shining stuff at us that are launching nuclear weapons and actually knocking us out of the sky.
There's electromagnetic interference.
So I could see a logic there that shows that we make the assumption that if they're here, they're gods, right?
So if we think that these things are real, so let's imagine they're actually coming from another planet.
So if they are coming from another planet and they're capable of coming here, that means other planets are capable of sustaining intelligent life that can be starfarers.
So if that's possible here and there, it's probably all over the place.
So if it's all over the place, Who knows how many numbers of things you're dealing with and how far advanced they are?
And like you said, like what technology did they develop?
We think – we always think technology is like completely linear and we think that like what we did and the way we did it is the only way it can be done.
But the best evidence that's not true is Egypt.
The best evidence that that's not true exists.
You can go touch it with your hand.
You can see photographs of it online.
We don't know what the fuck they did.
And whatever they did was super advanced for 4,500 years ago.
We don't know what machines they used.
We don't know how they cut it.
We don't know how they measured it.
We don't know shit how they figured out to put it north, south, east, and west almost perfectly.
No one knows.
No one understands how they got the stones there.
It's all speculation and guesswork.
But whatever it is, it's insanely impressive and a different sort of way of implementing human ingenuity and engineering and thought into construction.
It's very different than anything we've done.
So it's a clear path.
Like they had an enormous amount of resources in that area and they had sustained a civilization there for thousands and thousands of years to the point there.
They had developed methods and technologies that we don't understand today.
There's also parallel civilizations that coexisted with European civilizations that are very similar to what we know about in history that were like the Mayans.
For instance.
Like, what the fuck was going on in Mexico?
Like, how come...
Because we know when that was...
Like, when Cortez visited...
Was it Cortez or Cabeza de Vaca?
Who visited the Mayans and wrote about it?
It might have been Cabeza de Vaca.
I think it's in that book, A Strange New Land.
But when they first encountered these people, before they gave them diseases, they had this insane civilization with gold headdresses and ornate dressing, and everybody's like, what is this?
There's insane stone structures and human sacrifice.
What the fuck are you guys doing here?
unidentified
Like this is a totally, completely different type of civilization.
Well, the thing Lazar was talking about was that this planet had a stable version of this element 115. But I think, I mean, what does that even mean?
What is element 115?
If there's 114, element 115 is whatever the fuck you find next, right?
If you don't know what it is.
And it was all theoretical until the Large Hadron Collider, they developed a version of it for, you know, a millisecond so they know that it's a real thing.
He's saying they have a stable version.
I'm like, well, if you live in a completely different solar system and a completely different planet with completely different...
There's planets out there that are made entirely of diamonds.
Like, I think that there's probably an infinite number of ways intelligent life evolves, and some of it probably doesn't look anything like us.
Like, octopi.
Like, octopuses, they have no need, because they're in the ocean, and there's no houses in the ocean, so they have no need to, like, build things, but they're super smart, man.
They open up jars.
They figure out a way to get out of a fish tank, walk across the floor, climb into the next fish tank, kill a fish, eat it.
I learned a pretty interesting little tidbit here.
You know, I mean, the octopus, apparently its DNA is not like anything else on this planet, but apparently the Hawaiians have an ancient tradition that octopus basically came from the sky.
That is interesting, but, you know, with panspermia, they do think that it's possible that planets, when they get hit by asteroids, a big chunk of it can fly off and the DNA from that rock can enter into this new environment.
And with some things, like spores, spores survive in a vacuum.
That's one of the thoughts about psilocybin mushrooms, that perhaps they arrived here from somewhere else on a rock, which is a real possibility.
That's where most of the iridium that they find when they do those big digs and they find that layer of iridium that's near where there's an asteroid impact.
I mean, if you look back at, like, the evolution of humans to monkeys to, you know, fish and then, you know, multicellular organisms and the introduction of the mitochondria, smaller, simple, single-cell organisms, there's a very linear path of evolution.
And very early on, there's a massive jump where we went from extremely simple bits and pieces to essentially this big jump in complexity for these small systems.
And there's a theory out there that that jump occurred due to seeding from elsewhere, right?
That perhaps the whole path is linear.
And it occurred over time, perhaps, and they think the time period is like several billion years, right, for the evolution from these components to get to essentially a single-celled organism, that these components evolved independently in space, perhaps feeding off a gamma radiation or other gamma energy or other energies that are out in space.
And so that evolutionary process did take billions of years.
It just didn't occur on a particular planet.
And then over time, as meteorites hit the Earth, then we see this uptake in complexity because of the arrival and then the further evolution of the biological chain that led to us.
And, you know, it's pretty interesting, kind of tied to that theory, is that, you know, the Big Bang happened, and things, you know, gradually cooled down.
I mean, there was a point where, and I think the number is like 500,000 years, where the universe was essentially room temperature.
Right?
Like, everywhere in the universe had like a distribution of temperature that was equivalent to what we're sitting in right now before it continued to cool off and get weird.
So there could have been these opportunities in the universal process that allowed for the development of lifelike components that eventually went out to seed the universe, which would be a really interesting concept because it would lead us to believe that this probably happened in multiple places and not just here.
In recent weeks, rumors spread rapidly on social media, I think I was involved in that, suggesting that NASA's James Webb Telescope had made an extraordinary discovery, potentially alien life, and the members of Congress had been briefed about it.
The rumors intensified after U.S. Representative Andre Carson, who had previously chaired a congressional hearing on unidentified aerial phenomena, Decline to answer a question about classified briefings when asked by, I don't know who that is, run by journalist Matt Laszlo on X. He's been doing good work on the UAP topic.
Speculation prompted a Freedom of Information Act request filled by the Black Bolt on September 22nd, 2024, seeking any records classified or unclassified about James Webb Space Telescope briefings provided to Congress, particularly related to the telescope's findings.
The request aimed to clarify whether any congressional briefings had been held about significant discoveries Made by the telescope, which has been in operation since 2021. So the response was, a copy of records, which includes videos,
photos, electronic or otherwise, of all briefings about James Webb's telescope and program made for Congress, I ask that you include all classified and unclassified briefings on the James Webb telescope program or briefings on findings made by that program.
It says those searches located no records responsive to your request.
Neither confirm nor deny.
I mean, if I was hiding the fact we're going to get hit by an asteroid, that's how I would do it.
You know, we've gone down the rabbit hole with some fun speculative conversation about what's out in space, but I just want to make the point that this is still a solvable problem here on planet Earth, right?
We can't let the fun speculation of what's going on out in the universe stop these kind of stodgy academics and others to say, well, this is not relevant to me.
This is not practical.
There's nothing here, right?
We need an intense focus on this within our government at the highest levels Not just within an organization with the Pentagon.
And we need to engage our scientific and academic community and remove the stigma at the highest levels.
So I think with the folks that are friendly to this topic coming in with the Trump administration open up a very key opportunity window for us to move this conversation forward.
When you look at it from their perspective, what would rationalize...
Trying to downplay this.
If you look at it from their perspective, what could possibly be the case where they think it would be good to propagandize or sway people in that direction?
We haven't had support from the top in the past, right?
So, were I in such a position, you would have to have me working closely with the White House, and you would have to have the White House's buy-in on this.
I think that's the only way.
And from the top of the executive branch, you use that position of influence, you pass additional, you know, presidential memorandums and executive orders.
That countermand previous memorandums that may have existed in the past in order to legally compel these organizations from the chief executive to be able to move the conversation forward, to require them to bring this information out, to require them to collaborate.
And it doesn't have to be a one-person job.
You bring in some of the brightest people in our country in order to evaluate this data, come to a conclusion, and then share those conclusions with the American people.
Okay, let's imagine you get this position and you go through this search and you find out that this is all our technology and that we can't allow China or Russia to know that we're capable of using these kind of technologies that are unheard of right now.
So we have to keep it as a national security secret.
I wonder what the world would be like if it was fully accepted, if disclosure was fully accepted.
I wonder what the world would be like if, like, Trump gets into office.
Trump has a press conference.
He brings you up.
You explain what we know.
This is over the last 16 months.
Our team has discovered this, that, and that.
We've personally investigated this, that, and the other.
Where are the crashed ones?
Where the fuck are you guys hiding those?
Because if that's real, that's the end.
All you have to do is bring the president to the crash site, and you bring him into the warehouse, and you show him this thing, and you walk around it, and you go, what the fuck is this?
What the fuck is this?
That would be the end.
All you'd have to do is just get a camera crew, go with them, Trump walking around a spaceship.
Okay.
We've been visited.
Now we know.
By whatever.
By whoever.
Maybe it's not even a visitor.
Maybe it's always been here.
Maybe it lives in the ocean.
Maybe it's been monitoring us from there.
And its sole purpose is, like I said before, custodian.
To make sure we don't blow ourselves up.
But either way, we should probably know that.
We should probably know there's fucking bases in the ocean.
You know, because a lot of them, they've seen their transmedium.
They move through the air and then they go into the water and they don't even make a splash.
We would have for the first time, I think, a clear direction of where we need to go as a society.
It would revamp our academic processes, our fields of study, our beliefs in, you know, religious structures.
I don't think they would nullify it.
I think they would probably amplify it.
And it would, I think, have the equivalent impact of a positive nuclear bomb on our economy.
We would have certainty in what direction to invest in and what technologies to pursue.
And I think that by having that direction, that would, again, nuclear bomb level increase in capabilities where we would be able to, you know, be working on propulsion and energy systems and material systems that would advance us well beyond where we are today.
It would leapfrog us.
And if we sit on our hands, we don't do that, we're going to find our adversaries in a position to do that instead, which would completely rewrite the geopolitical environment.
I think, well, we already are in AI to some degree, but I don't think it's a technology you can necessarily contain to one country.
I mean, China already has their own AI out there.
So I think it's going to be somewhat business as usual, at least on the AI side.
Quantum computing, a little bit different.
The technology investment is much higher, but still, if China can come in and potentially steal that technology and replicate it, then we're just in another level of arms race at that point.
But if we have the ability to invest in deep technologies that we aware have an endpoint in reality, instead of having to guess the strategic value of something, it's going to allow us to focus our resources in a way that we haven't had the opportunity to do in this country.
I go back and forth as to whether or not these are visitors or whether or not they're interdimensional and they're always here.
I go back and forth whether or not they're ours.
I think some of them are ours probably.
I go back and forth to Lazar's talk about how they had been doing flights with these things.
They'd figured out how to at least get them off the ground and move them around the sky and have them land again.
If that was going on, if that's real, if that was going on in 1989, who knows?
Who knows what the fuck we have right now if that's real.
But if we are being visited, it's...
It's a complete revamping of our position in the universe.
If we do realize we're part of a community of intelligent life that's in the universe, and that it just takes a while for you to be technologically sophisticated enough where you can communicate or travel to these places.
But it eventually happens.
And then we just realize, like, the lights come on, there's like a billion eyes out there staring back at us like, whoa, we're all connected in this thing.
And like Ronald Reagan was saying, it would force us to recognize that we really are one thing here on planet Earth.
It's us together.
We're not different countries.
It's fucking...
It's crazy.
We're all just...
Of course there's different countries, but we're just human beings.
We should all just be like the same thing.
We don't need to fight.
There's no reason for any of this stuff.
All this shit can be worked out.
In the future, it should be.
I just think technology's got to kind of like help us along in that direction.
That's probably exactly what's happening.
But it's pretty strange that in the meanwhile, like in what we're facing today with these superpowers duking it out and trying to develop technological and military dominance, this would be in the movie the exact time that alien life would start showing up.
If you're gonna have a movie where the aliens come to make sure we don't kill ourselves, now would be arrival time.
It's like we're all sitting in Plato's cave, duking it out, arguing about what's on the wall, when a few people are creeping upstairs, realizing that we have a lot bigger things to worry about.
Well, people like yourself bringing attention to this topic, Joe, is huge.
I think the momentum that we've seen over the past three, four, five, eight years since I've been doing this is really changing the conversation.
I speak with people every single day.
I work this every single day, Joe, seven days a week.
And the amount of people that are changing their tune and coming around to this conversation at all levels of engineering, scientific background, financial resources, is absolutely huge.
And I think the pressure is going to continue to build.
And I think that the opportunity we have here with the new administration is unprecedented.
And I think we need to do everything we can do to leverage that to move the conversation to a point of no return.
Due to the lack of coordination in government on this topic, I would assume if that's what they were doing, they would have had a better plan to communicate.
But why would they communicate with state and local authorities if they could do it in a way where they get clearance to do it and it's a need-to-know thing and they just have these things fly around just to gauge how the public's perception would be?
Even within the federal government, there seems to be confusion.
I'm not even referring to local government and law enforcement.
I'm talking about government agencies that are actively investigating this.
They seem to be out of the loop as well.
If they are trying to trick us, when I mean us, I mean basically everyone, even within the government, even what people need to know.
I mean, it's so hard for me to rationalize that they would be willing to manipulate 95% of the government in order to run some kind of experiment or social test with unclear value at the end of that chain, right?
Like, what exactly are they preparing us for?
Is it a broader integration of UAP knowledge into our conversation?
That's the only thing I could think that would require such secrecy.
I would have to make the assumption that the government with the defense community has built various drones that are capable of doing similar things for deployment overseas.
So again, there's not one video, I know we've looked a little bit, for one that exhibits capabilities that gives us a high level of confidence that they're completely unusual.
But we're not seeing that necessarily, so I can't jump to that conclusion yet based off of the information that's being presented.
But the overall activities of all these objects and the historical consistency with other sightings in this part of the country lend me to still consider that there's anomalous activity that's going on in this area.
We have very sophisticated radar systems on the eastern seaboard, including in New Jersey.
So to have objects that are able to essentially evade those detection mechanisms and appear mysterious and disappear over the ocean or come from the ocean in a way that's untrackable should not be possible.
That's why we have these billion-dollar systems.
So have we developed these capabilities?
Not just radar, but infrared, being able to block infrared, and even being able to detect objects in their proximity and even turn their lights off, right?
And of course, these aren't magical technologies.
We can probably imagine a path there, but it creates a lot of uncertainty about the origin of these objects and their intent, right?
Are we trying to evade our own capabilities and cause a mass panic over our own country?
Is this a foreign adversary that has had breakthroughs in these capabilities?
Not just breakthroughs in these capabilities, but, you know, Iran and China and Russia, for them to be operating off the eastern seaboard, it's not a small task, right?
To, like, load up a ship, have it be stealthy, and then launch all these drones without a point of origin.
That's not a trivial problem for them, right?
We're the only countries in the world that has a true global navy, and it would even be difficult for us to do.
Civilian drones.
You know, I mean, are there civilians operating these?
Hundreds of drones without detection, without flaw, without failure, without crashing?
Very, very strange that that would be the case as well.
So again, I can't – I look at all these different options, and I can see a rationale to say, okay, some of these are not exhibiting capabilities that make me think it came from somewhere else necessarily.
But all these kind of facts lined up one after another makes it really anomalous and quite the mystery still.
But again, I think we can figure this out, Joe.
Like we can get the proper technology there.
We can go figure this out.
And if the government is not going to do it, I will.
I'm going to take RF receivers from Counter Drone Technologies.
I'm going to go out into these hot spots.
We're going to be looking for the signals that they may be emitting.
And then using mobile platforms, we'll be there to be able to detect the strength of the signals and we'll essentially follow them, see where they go.
And that might include, you know, operating an aircraft, that might include a ship offshore that we can hand off this information to so they can track them when they go over the water.
So if there is a ship that's launching them off the coast, What kind of technological capabilities would that ship have to have to be there undetected, where they don't know where these things are coming from?
How far away would it have to be where that's even feasible?
I hope you get a phone call and somebody listens to this and says that sounds like it would be a good thing for everybody if we knew what the hell was going on.
If it's possible to talk about.
But again, without you out there telling your story and guys like Commander David Fravor and all these different people that have had these experiences and encountered things and are aware of it and know that it's a real issue.
Without real credible voices like yourself, this conversation falls into the hands of silly people like me.
You know what I mean?
Like, if I'm interested in UFOs, I was interested in Bigfoot for a long time.
You know what I mean?
Some of it is just fun for me.
But when guys like you come out and talk about it, and when, you know, the New York Times writes that article in 2017, and you get the gimbal video and the go-fast video, all of a sudden it's like, okay, this is a phenomenon.
I mean, within government, when they communicate, it's clear from the Pentagon to the executive branch to legislative branch that, yes, there are objects.
We don't know what they are.
And they seem to be exhibiting capabilities beyond the state of the art.
I mean, we're at a point in the conversation where that seems to be pretty widely accepted at this point.
Listen, man, I really hope you get that phone call.
It's always a pleasure to talk to you.
And like I said, I really mean it.
If it wasn't for people like you that had the courage to come out and talk about these things, because I know there was a long time where airline pilots, a lot of different people just didn't want to talk about their experiences because it seemed like they were silly, and they would be mocked.
And it was widely dismissed.
And now it's kind of generally acknowledged that something's going on, you know, even from our own government.
So thank you.
If it wasn't for guys like you, I don't know where this whole conversation would be.