Dr. Shawn Baker joins Joe Rogan to expose how processed foods—backed by BlackRock and Vanguard’s financial stakes in pharma—drive disease, citing Harvard’s carnivore diet study where 92% of type 2 diabetics ditched insulin. A 2015 USDA report debunked cholesterol myths, yet saturated fat remains scapegoated, while UCLA’s upcoming Matt Budoff study may overturn LDL dogma. They contrast regenerative ranches like Will Harris’s with glyphosate-laden industrial farms, noting meat’s unique phytonutrients and mental health benefits (e.g., carnitine’s role in depression). Rogan and Baker reject longevity fears, arguing diet and exercise now matter more than speculative heartbeats—exposing systemic misinformation and corporate healthcare collusion. [Automatically generated summary]
Hey, Joe, before we get started, I just want to say thank you for, one, for the stem cell stuff, but also for, you know, just having the conversations that other people are not willing to have.
And, you know, we've...
I see where they try to cancel you and all the BS and, you know, you didn't have to do that, but you, you know, let other people have discussions so we're not being censored.
So when I was practicing medicine, busy orthopedic surgeon, you know, plugging away, doing a thing, and then I started realizing, hey, I can have people avoid surgery.
By changing their diet.
Their pain went away.
I was like, you don't need surgery.
Well, that is not what hospitals want you to do.
They want you to, you know, keep the engines turning, so to speak.
And so I, you know, said, hey, look, I want to practice some lifestyle stuff.
And that ended up, you know, leading to a long battle with myself in the hospital.
The hospital basically suspended my privileges and went to the state.
The state said, hey, you can fight this, you know, in our sort of state medical board situation, or you can get independently evaluated.
And I said, well, let me just get independently evaluated because I don't see eye to eye with the hospital.
And so that was done.
It was like right at the time when I saw you a couple days before.
And they came back and said, there's nothing wrong with you.
Go back to work.
And so, I got that, and then I had to, you know, reapply to the board, reapply for a license.
They granted my license, and I've renewed it three times since then.
So I'm a licensed medical, you know, licensed doctor, you know, but I just, you know, right now I'm not actually actively practicing because I got frustrated with the medical system.
I think our healthcare system has...
Some serious, serious problems, you know, some serious conflicts of interest, some serious, I think the incentives for providing what I think is appropriate healthcare is misaligned.
And so, you know, over the last few years, so we set up a company, which is called Rivero, and we're licensed in all 50 states.
We have physicians all across the country, and we're basically We're set up to provide what I call actual healthcare, root cause medicine, get people off the medications, actually, you know, try and fix their disease and not just medicate everybody.
Because we have such a system where everybody's just like, you know, you go to the doctor, you know, here's your diagnosis, here's your drugs, keep staying on the rest of your life, which I think is the wrong course.
R-E-V-E-R-O. And so we raise a bunch of money from crowdfunding and also a bunch of venture capitalists.
And so we've been basically building that.
We've got thousands of people that are basically on the waiting list.
We launch in a couple weeks.
And so, you know, so like I said, it's going to be something that I think will provide healthcare as it should be.
You know, instead of, like I said, instead of just the symptom management, putting band-aids on stuff, actually getting people healthy, Because I think a lot of diseases are reversible, and we've seen that all the time.
Well, that's one of the most fascinating things about this carnivore diet is how many, albeit anecdotal stories, you have of people that had all these different conditions, chronic pain, rheumatoid arthritis, chronic fatigue, all these different issues, skin issues, eczema, all these different things.
That they were treating with medication, it wasn't working, they were experiencing side effects.
They start eliminating everything from their diet except for meat, and all of a sudden these problems go away.
I mean, there's too many of those stories for it to be ignored.
And so whether or not that is enough evidence to say this is a good treatment, I can't say that.
But you can't deny it's happening.
I've been trying to get research done.
In fact, there was a study done out of Harvard University two years ago.
I don't know if you saw that.
So there's a guy named David Ludwig, who is a senior author.
And David, I've talked to him.
He is the most ethical, you know, just like he does not want any money from industry.
He refuses to take anything.
He's like, I want to make sure I do pure science.
And they did a study and they looked at 2,000 people on the carnivore diet.
And basically what they saw was...
Like 95% of the people.
Significant improvement across the board.
Now, the thing that was interesting to me is that diabetics, we had like 225 diabetics in that population.
92% of them came off all their insulin.
These are all type 2s.
That's insane.
100% came off all their insulin.
All these other injectable drugs, the GLP-1 receptor agonists, which we've heard so much about lately, you know, the ozempics and things like that.
Semaglutide.
Semaglutide, right.
Came off something called a PCSK9 inhibitor.
No, sorry, the SGLT2 inhibitors.
84% came off their metformin.
So it's just like, this is clearly a...
At least at the very least a therapeutic tool and that's how I push this I don't tell like you know I wrote a book on this I didn't say humans are carnivores I said humans are opportunistic omnivores if we were if we were living in the Middle Ages and we came across we're out hunting mammoths and all of a sudden You know the ice ages were out and we came across a tree full of Twinkies.
I mean we'd eat that right because you know we would but I mean it's and you know there's people there's obviously people that eat plants that aren't dead and are doing okay so we're omnivores but From a disease, you know, mitigation standpoint, I mean, a therapeutic carnivore diet is tremendously effective.
I mean, it's one of the more effective things I've seen across the board.
And so, at the very least, you know, you'd say, let's explore that aspect of it.
Because, you know, like I said, there's people that are suffering.
We've got so many people.
I know we may talk about vegan, carnivore, you know, everything in between.
But I think at the end of the day, everybody's eating processed garbage.
We're just eating bullshit.
I mean, and that is really...
One of the problems, and the one thing, and you said this, Joe, when you eat this meat, you're like, I don't want that other bullshit, because you're actually satiated, and this is a thing that's, I think, problematic, because if you look at, interesting, there was a study that just came out now looking at The financial incentive for ultra-processed food.
Why do we have this stuff?
So you look at the big asset management groups.
You've got BlackRock, you've got Vanguard, you've got State Street and Capital.
I can't remember the full names on these, but those guys collectively...
Own huge portions of Nestle, PepsiCo, all these other processed food companies.
And they also have significant shares in pharmaceutical manufacturers.
So you basically, you sicken the population by feeding them garbage, and then you just profit on their disease.
And I think that's what's going on.
And I think it's really unfortunate.
And I think some people make an argument, is there a net benefit from feeding more people versus how many people are getting sick?
And I think there's a point where, you know, the line goes, you know, if most people are getting sick from this and only a few people are benefiting, then you've kind of crossed that line of, you know, is it for the greater good?
And then it becomes, you know, the realm of almost evil in my mind.
Well, I think it started out with just trying to make money.
I mean, that's what started out with the processed foods, and I think then they realized, well, now you're selling more medication to these people, so you make more money on top of that more money.
I don't even think it's a conspiracy.
I think it's just opportunity.
I think they just look at profits, and that's what these corporations are established for.
Their bottom line is they're supposed to make as much money as they can for their shareholders.
That's their responsibility.
Their responsibility is to have, like, a cute cartoon guy that sells you sugary cereal.
Because, you know, when I was a kid, that's what I wanted.
Yeah, I mean, that paper that I talked about, and I think, you know, it's in that list that I give Jamie, but it basically says this is the whole thing.
They make tremendous short-term profits for their shareholders, and that's why they do it.
I think the cutting the bullshit out is the biggest factor in this whole carnivore diet thing.
I really do.
I mean, I definitely think there's obviously meat itself, regardless of the bullshit and the propaganda, meat is the most nutrient-dense food you can eat.
All this crap where they say that meat causes cancer.
If meat caused cancer, most people would have cancer.
95 plus percent of the population on Earth eats meat.
And all this propaganda you hear about, you know, you're going to get cancer, diseases are going to go, all these different things.
It does not seem to be the case in people that just eat meat.
When you're looking at my experience, I have not, and again, anecdotal, I've never met anybody that went on this diet that didn't have a positive result.
Everybody that I know that goes on this diet.
Now, clearly...
There's genetic differences.
Some people have, definitely there's people that have that Lone Star Tick issue, where a buddy of mine has that.
He got bit by a tick, and he developed an allergy to red meat.
It's a real pain in the ass for him.
And it went away.
He had it for a year, and it went away, and it started to come back again.
But that's rare.
For most people, red meat is a very nutrient-dense food.
And I definitely, you know, like I said, if there's anybody that has, you know, like I said, if I'm wrong, I mean, it'll be clear that I've been eating meat, like, significantly for many, many years.
I put a lot of that on video.
But, you know, one of the interesting things, you know, because the backlash you often hear is, what about cholesterol?
And last time I mentioned, I mentioned a guy named Dave Feldman.
And he was a guy that, you know, he's an engineer, a pretty smart guy.
And he goes on a low-carb, higher-fat diet.
And he feels great.
He's like, oh, my God.
Everything feels great.
But his cholesterol shoots through the roof.
And he's like, oh, my God, I'm going to die, right?
So he's freaked out about this stuff.
And he starts looking into it very mechanistically and spending years and years and years studying this stuff.
And finally puts together this sort of theory, and it's still theory, but there's a lot of evidence showing that it's probably likely true, called the lean mass hyper-responder, and there's something called a lipid energy model.
What this Oreo cookie thing was is another guy is another researcher.
He's a PhD from Oxford.
He's also finishing his medical degree at Harvard.
And his name is Nick Norwitz.
And he basically said, look, this lipid energy model works like this.
When you cut carbs low and you get lean, right?
Your body says, hey, there's not a lot of energy in my cells.
My liver glycogen isn't full.
My muscles aren't full of energy.
So I need to get energy there somehow.
And so what happens is the liver starts sending fat out into the bloodstream.
So you have energy to work, right?
And so what he's showing is that if I just add Oreo cookies or some other energy dense, maybe junk food in there...
The body will say, hey, I've got plenty of energy now, so the liver shuts down.
It doesn't traffic the cholesterol anymore, or the triglycerides and the cholesterol.
So that sort of validates what's going on here.
But the question is, is it bad if my cholesterol is really high, but I'm fit, I'm lean, I don't have diabetes, I don't have pre-diabetes, I don't have insulin resistance.
I don't have high blood pressure.
You know, I'm otherwise metabolically healthy because you see these people.
So you see they're lean athletes.
You know, they go on a diet, like a carnivore diet or even a ketogenic diet, and they're like, I feel great.
It's the best I've felt in years, but my cholesterol is through the roof, so I've got to stop.
And so that's the real question.
So, on December 8th, there's going to be a landmark study that's going to be presented by a guy named Matt Budoff, who's a cardiologist out of UCLA. I think he's attached to UCLA somewhere.
And basically, what they did was they took...
100 people, all who have sky-high cholesterol, we're talking like total cholesterol, 500, 600, 700 milligrams per deciliter.
It's enough to give your doctor a heart attack.
You walk in there with your cholesterol, it's like, 600, what the hell?
So he's got all these patients, they're that.
They are all otherwise metabolically healthy, though.
None of them are diabetics, none of them have blood pressures, they're relatively lean.
And what they did was they did high-level CT angiography, these people, looking really detailed at how much plaques in their blood vessels.
And they're all older guys.
They're like average age, like our age, like mid-50s, like mid-late 50s, right?
So this is where you'd expect to start seeing heart disease.
And when they did that scan, Almost none of them had any level of significant, you know, vascular disease.
They were like clean, clean arteries.
And so what they're doing is they're running them for a year, and then they're going to repeat the study, right?
And say, in one year, has anything occurred?
Now, the criticism of that will be that, oh, it takes 20 years to do that.
But Matt Budoff is like the world-leading expert on how fast vascular disease develops, right?
So he's a guy that designed the study.
He knows this stuff.
So he said a year will show us for sure if vascular disease is going to occur.
So what they're doing on the 8th is they're showing the preliminary data that shows all these people have almost no heart disease, and they compare it to something called the Miami Heart data set, which is like the perfect data set for if you want to compare what's going on with vascular disease.
And so in February, they'll finish up the collection of data, and then we'll get to see what happens after a year.
Now, I suspect what will happen is they'll show No progression, little progression, or even reversal, which would be shocking, because all these people are saying cholesterol causes heart disease.
Because if you listen to guys like, because I know you've got Peter on here, Peter A.T. on here, and he says, look, it's just a matter of how much cholesterol over how much time.
If it's high for a long period of time, you're going to get heart disease.
But if this turns out to be what I think it's going to show, which it likely will show, then that throws a monkey wrench in that whole theory, because it's like, wait a minute, maybe it's a dependent variable.
Maybe if you're not fat, you know, out of shape, have high blood pressure and diabetes, that that LDL cholesterol being high is not as much of a problem as we thought it was, which is, I mean, that's paradigm shifting, quite honestly.
Well, I mean, that goes back into the, I mean, when they started looking at cholesterol, this is in rabbits, way back in like the 1920s or something like that.
They started feeding rabbits high cholesterol diets and the rabbits got heart disease.
But they started looking at, you know, the associational data started out back in the 50s when Eisenhower had his heart attack and everybody's freaking out because, you know, we saw a rise in heart disease, you know, 1940s, 1950s.
And it's been, you know, it's been a number one killer in Western populations since then.
And so a guy named Ancel Keys was one of the ones that started promoting that theory.
They did, you know, associational studies where they say, well, look at these countries.
They eat a lot of saturated fat and they have a high cholesterol and they die more commonly out of heart disease.
And so that basically data has been done over and over again.
I mean, they've done Mendelian randomization studies, which there's some problems with those types of things.
They've done, you know, studies where they can show that, you know, we can lower cholesterol and cardiovascular disease decreases.
So we know that, you know, that's the whole premise behind statin drugs.
Some people think it's a pleomorphic effect or it's like a side effect, like maybe it's decreasing the inflammation.
And by decreasing the inflammation, You're actually improving heart disease.
But there's been...
I mean, there's a ton of evidence that would point to, yes, that is what's going on.
Now, what I would say is, again, you're looking at a general population.
And the other thing is all-cause mortality.
So, clearly, there's a lot of evidence that points to, like...
Normally, they like your total cholesterol below 190, LDL below 100, something like that.
But if we look at population studies and all-cause mortality, cancer, heart disease, dementia, infectious disease, so on and so forth, the people with higher cholesterol actually live longer.
They're the ones that live longer.
And so the question is, you know, maybe I won't get a heart attack, but I'm going to get cancer instead because my cholesterol is too low, perhaps.
Now, the critics of that will say it's reverse causality.
It's like, well, the only reason your cholesterol was low was because you had cancer, right?
And cancer is making your cholesterol go down because cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and some of the other lipoproteins actually have a function.
They participate in our immune response.
So it's there for a reason.
It's not just for the hell of it, right?
We have a reason for this stuff.
But there's a plethora of studies on this stuff.
Some of it's been paid for by the pharmaceutical industries, which, of course, there's a little bit of conflict of interest in some of that, I would imagine.
But, again, if you talk to 99% of the cardiologists, they'll be on board with this.
But like I said, this sort of population, which we never studied, we have no data on these people.
It's like if you go on a carnivore diet, Joe, I know you've gotten lean, you feel good, probably your blood pressure's good, probably your glucose is good.
Does that mean it's dangerous for you?
And the answer is we don't know yet, but this study will shed a ton of light on this, and so this is coming out.
Like I said, the preliminary data, December 8th when Budoff presents to the big conference, and then when they finish collecting the full data in February, they'll probably publish that probably spring-summer or something like that.
I talked to the researchers and they're like, man, they know the results, but they don't want to share it because they don't want the cat getting out of the bag early.
But we're going to get it on December 8th.
And basically, what I think, I'm 90% certain what it's going to show is people with super high cholesterol that are otherwise super lean and healthy compared to the average population have less risk for cardiovascular disease based on this data.
That's what I think is going to happen.
Now, we'll know for sure on December 8th when Budoff presents.
The sugar industry bribed those doctors, and that information has been the basis that people have been making recommendations on forever, on a fraudulent study.
And still to this day, doctors will cite that not knowing it.
And when you tell them about it, they're like, what are you talking about?
And then you'll pull it up on Google and they just go, huh.
What is this?
Like there's so many doctors that aren't aware that the demonization of saturated fact was specifically caused by these papers, by these doctors that were bribed.
I mean, it is crazy to think how much, you know, you'd think that science would be a quest to find the truth or to explain the observations around us, but a lot of times, you know, science now is marketing.
I mean, it really is.
I mean, it's paid for.
Companies are going to benefit from this.
You know, you think about a lot of these academic institutions.
A lot of their funding comes through industry, and they don't get funding if they don't get the results that they're getting paid for.
It's even more insidious than that, because the people that are involved in the FDA eventually go and work for these corporations, which is so wild.
When you see that happen, and you go, oh my god, there's a clear revolving door.
It's not like shell corporations or some secret hidden money corporation.
Overseas.
No, it's like right in front of your face.
These people work for the government, they make these laws, and they make these recommendations, and then they go on to get these incredible jobs where they get paid lucrative amounts of money.
It's not only, I mean, as you probably know, like the FDA, I mean, corporate capture, I mean, the FDA, for new drug approvals, it's like 65% of that budget comes from the pharmaceutical industry itself.
But they actually slaughter more cattle in India than we do in the United States.
And they export most, a lot of it.
There's something, like Southern India, they still eat a little bit of beef.
In fact, there's a lot of carnivores in India right now.
It's kind of crazy.
I get...
I did conferences in India, and it's just like, wow, it's kind of a growing movement down there.
But back to the point, so we've got this beef check-off system.
So every cattle rancher, they pay a buck, right?
And then so at the end of the year, they collect $30, $40, $50 million a year.
It's supposed to be to promote beef, like beef is what's for dinner, to do research and all that stuff.
And so I, you know, the U.S. Cattlemen's Association, which represents the cattle producers, but the NCBA represents Cargill and Tyson and the packing things, and so there's a little conflict between that.
But they have all the money.
And I went to those guys, to the beef checkoff, and I said, hey, look, We want to spend a little bit of money to do a study on beef versus diabetes, because we know the results are going to be.
The people are going to go on an all-meat diet or a close-to-all-meat diet, and their diabetes is going to go away.
It's simple, and it takes all the confusion out.
You hear all these dietary studies, it's like, oh, but he was eating hamburgers and french fries, and there's all this confounders.
It's like, you can't really test it.
I'm like, the perfect way to test if meat is healthy or not is to just put them on a damn carnivore diet and see what happens.
And guys like John Inaitis, who's one of the most cited scientists in the world, has basically said, all this epidemiology we're doing, we're just wasting money.
It's not telling us anything.
This is all garbage.
But they keep doing it over and over again because they generate headlines, you know?
The headlines they want.
But anyway, back to this beef check-off thing.
So I said, hey, look...
You know, every year you award money, you know, hundreds of thousands, you know, tens of millions of dollars to promote beef.
I said, let's get a little bit of money to do a research study on diabetes.
And they literally said, no, we're not interested in doing that.
And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me.
The beef industry is taking a beating right now.
You know, you listen to it.
It's like, you know, everybody wants to get rid of beef.
The cow farts are boiling in the oceans.
You know, it's gonna kill you, it's gonna give you cancer, which all of this is largely nonsense.
And this is, you know, in my view, this type of study would clearly, clearly demonstrate that not only does beef not cause diabetes, in fact, I talked to the CEO of the NCBA two years ago, I sat down, I presented in front of the California Cattlemen's Association, and literally the president of the Association stood up and said, I went on a carver diet and cured my diabetes.
It's like, yeah, it's clear.
And the guy said, yeah, I get it.
We're going to help you out.
We're going to get this going.
I didn't hear, I heard nothing from these guys.
So what I think is going on is the USDA kind of oversees all these checkoffs and they just kind of say, look, you can't say that because we want to promote You know, because again, they have all these processed food lobbies, Nabisco and PepsiCo, sitting on the, you know, they're on the board, and they're like, if we promote this one food and people stop eating all this processed food, right, then what are we gonna do?
We're gonna lose a lot of money.
You think about it, you know, not that I'm advocating that everybody want a carnivore diet, because I don't think that's, I don't think it's necessary, you know, for one, but if you significantly cut back on all these people consuming all this garbage, you know, what does that do economically to this country?
I mean, think about how much money is spent on garbage food, the drugs that are needed to be treated.
I mean, we spend $4.3 trillion a year on health care in this country, and what do we get for it?
We've got one of the sickest populations in the world.
One, if you go back to like dietetics in the beginning, like back in 1917, the American Dietetics Association was formed.
This was formed literally by Seventh-day Adventists, so that from the very, very beginning, the creation of the nutrition science field The Seventh-day Adventists who are, you know, religiously vegetarians.
You know, you go back to, like, the Kellogg's Brothers, you know, John Harvey Kellogg, where he's out there, you know, circumcising females and saying, we can't eat meat because it's going to make you have sex and make you have lust and masturbate.
He's in there for He was giving himself like high-pressure enemas every day It's like fucking 20 gallons a minute enemas because he thought that was really he was a wacko He was a really nutty guy you read about some 20 gallon and it was some ridiculous like super high capacity Like a super soaker on steroids things are animals bad for you Because I've always wondered, if your internal gut flora is important, and it is, isn't that getting washed out?
I think to some degree it is.
I don't know that anybody's really looked at it from that angle, but I think in some cases, like some people's got some problems with constipation, it could be helpful, but I don't think it's generally a healthy practice for most people.
I know there's people that are like, Like putting weird stuff up their butt, man.
Yeah, it's kind of like these, there's this thing these crazy vegans do where they consume like this charcoal and this jelly and stuff and this kind of gruel mix and then it kind of like fills up their intestines and they poop it all out and they say, that's clearing out all my intestines.
I can't remember what they call it, but it's like there's these crazy, crazy videos where they're just pulling all this like gelatinous black stuff out of their butt.
Well, you think about it because, Joe, you're out hunting all the time.
And, you know, when you're going out and you're like, if I had to get food out here, what would I have available to eat?
I can tell you what, you wouldn't have all this processed food, but particularly like powder.
You know, like we make powdered sugar, we make powdered flour, and we combine them together, but we've changed the nature of the food so much.
That it's interesting, you know, I saw Darius Muzaffarian, who's a researcher at Tuftu, he's the guy to put out the study that says, or was part of the study that said, you know, like, Lucky Charms are healthier than eggs.
You saw that, like, last year, that's total BS, right?
But one thing he did point out was that, like, over the last 20 years or so, we haven't really been eating much more calories than we were.
Like, from the 1960s to about 2000, we ate more calories, and maybe that explains why everybody got fat, but since that time, We really haven't eaten much more, but we've eaten so much more ultra-processed food.
In fact, right now the U.S. diet is close to 70% ultra-processed, which you think about, it's like crazy, and our kids are getting fat.
But one thing that's interesting is like, you know, because you're talking about the microbiome, right?
Our gut flora.
When you eat like whole food, you know, It goes farther down your digestive track and then you know our microbiome actually consumes something up to up to 22 percent of our calories can be consumed by our microbiome But when you're just eating sugar it goes straight in you so those calories your gut microbiome doesn't get any of that so you're right It's like you're absorbing more calories so just by changing the quality of the food You're changing how many calories you absorb and that is what some people say is part of what leads to this Obesity thing,
but we know, like, for instance, well, here's another thing.
USDA came out with a study, like, I don't know, three months ago.
91% processed food diet is healthy.
You know, this is what they're pushing, trying to get us, because they're trying to position us to say...
I think I've got, I might have that on there, Jamie, but it's...
It's basically because there's there's some they're starting to be backlash against ultra processed fruits I mean like South America starting to ban the stuff which I think you know I'm not I'm not for banning food I mean I think that gets into you know freedom of choice and things like that so you shouldn't be just like you can still smoke if you want to you know it's not the best for you so you don't want to do that But at the same point, you know, they're saying, like, this stuff is, there's a lot of backlash.
Like, people like myself and probably you and others are saying, look, this ultra-processed garbage is literally killing us.
It's making us crazy.
It's making us depressed.
All these people with mental health disorders, a lot of nutrition is part of that, and we can talk about that.
But, you know, what they're seeing is there's a backlash against that.
From UPF, ultra-processed foods, as defined by NOVA, designed to accomplish this objective.
We first developed a list of foods that fit NOVA criteria for UPF, ultra-processed foods, fit within a dietary pattern in the 2020 DGA, and are commonly consumed by Americans.
We then use these foods to develop a 7-day 2000 kilocalorie menu modeled on the MyPyramid sample menus and assess this menu for nutrient content as well as for diet quality using the Healthy Eating Index.
The results in the ultra-processed DGA menu that was created, 91% of the kilocalories were from ultra-processed food or NOVA Category 4. The HEI 215 score was 86 out of a possible 100 points.
The sample menu did not achieve a perfect score due primarily to excess sodium and an insufficient amount of whole grains.
This menu provided adequate amounts of all macro and micronutrients except vitamin D, vitamin E, and choline.
Conclusions.
Healthy dietary patterns can include most of their energy from ultra-processed foods, still receive a high diet quality score, and contain adequate amounts of most macro and micronutrients.
And that shows you how captured our food industry really is.
The fact that that's not challenged, the fact that our health guidelines aren't set on, hey, what you should be eating is what human beings are designed to eat in nature.
I mean, I, you know, my opinion on dietary guidelines, because we have a USDA that meets every five years, and by the way, so USDA dietary guidelines, did you see, there's a physician from Harvard named Fatima Stanford, right?
And she went on 60 Minutes and said, Obesity has nothing to do with diet.
It has nothing to do with exercise.
It's all disease and genetic, and there's nothing you can literally do.
And she's also sponsored by Nova Nordisk, who makes Ozempic, right?
And she's on there.
She's also a member of the U.S. Dietary Guidelines Panel.
So 95% of the people that sit on the U.S. Dietary Guidelines Panel today, for this next one where they're going to come up for the 2025 guidelines, all have financial ties to processed food companies.
Which, I mean, you think about it, it's just like, this is crazy.
So if you go to like Brazil, like Brazil's Dietary Guidelines, or at least the ones they released a few years ago, it was like, here's what you should do.
Cook at home, don't eat processed foods, and eat with people around that you love.
That's their, literally, that is their recommendation, which I think is better than our guidelines.
Because, you know, I mean, if left to our own, you know, I mean, we are now being told we've got to eat all this garbage, and it's just making us, it's just making us sick.
It's crazy.
And I think, you know, like, you know, I mean, it's like, this is the most, can you remember a time, because you and I grew up the same time, we were like, I turned 57 in six weeks.
Yeah, I'm 56. So we grew up at the same time back when we were kids.
I mean, it's like when we were kids, we all watched the same fucking shows because there was nothing else on, right?
There was CBS, ABC, NBC, and maybe like PBS, right?
Maybe a local news station.
That's all you had.
So we're all watching Gilligan's Island and the Brady Bunch and Dukes of Hazzards and Charlie's Angels and stuff like that.
And everybody had the same thing, but now it's so fractionated.
Everybody's divided.
I mean, I can't remember a time when this country's been more divided.
I mean, can you?
I mean, it's just like every single issue, Palestine, Israel, you know, COVID shot, not shot, climate change, no climate change.
It's like everything's a war.
It's like crazy.
But I think part of that is, I mean, I don't think half people's brains work anymore.
I mean, because we're We're just so nutrient-deprived.
And it sounds crazy to say because people, oh, that's not it.
No, it's social media.
I think the mental health aspects of social media, which are significant, there's real mental health issues involved in these posts and commenting and seeking things that outrage you.
I think it's exacerbated by people's poor physical health.
And so what I would say is fiber is conditionally beneficial.
So if you're eating a standard diet, yeah, if you put fiber, fiber really is a marker for diet quality, right?
So if I'm some poor guy and I'm eating his potato chips and cookies, I don't get a lot of fiber.
If I got a little more money, I'm probably buying the fruits and vegetables, probably out of guilt.
But it generally represents higher socioeconomic status, better overall diet quality.
And I think it's beneficial in that situation.
But if you go like, is it providing anything that I can't get from meat?
So there was a study that a guy named Tommy Wood and the other researcher was Mailer.
I can't remember her first name's female.
They did a study looking at what happens to the microbiome.
Because we're always hearing, oh, you need fiber to feed your microbiome.
You need those short-chain fatty acids.
You need the...
The butyrate or the butyric acid.
Well, they looked at that and they said, look, our gut has incredible metabolic flexibility.
And so even in the absence of fiber, you can get the same short-trained fatty acids from protein.
You can get it from being a low-carb state where you have more ketones being produced because the main ketones in our blood is called beta-hydroxybutyrate, which is very similar to butyric acid.
It's only one You know, hydroxyl molecule, and it reverses all the time.
So they indicated that, you know, we don't need fiber for that particular aspect.
And the other thing, there was a recent study, because what I see is so many autoimmune conditions.
You know, I know you've talked to Jordan and Michaela, and you've seen these crazy autoimmune conditions, which I've seen in the thousands now.
It's crazy, like Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, eczema, asthma, you know, anything.
That there was a study looking at fiber actually exacerbating problems with rheumatoid arthritis because of its interaction with a particular bacteria called Prevotella coprii, I think, or something like that.
And so we're seeing...
Yeah, so high-fiber diet synergizes and exacerbates rheumatoid arthritis.
So basically, you know, it's showing that, yeah, I mean, there can be problems with fiber for a lot of people, particularly if they have these issues.
So when people say that fiber is beneficial, what they're essentially saying is that if you have a poor diet, if you have a diet that's rich in ultra-processed foods and garbage, fiber would be beneficial to you because it would help.
I think it's displacing the garbage off the plate, right?
So if you load your plate up with fruits and vegetables, which I think generally, I'm not a guy that says vegetables are trying to kill you and nobody should.
I know there's other people.
It's kind of funny.
You talk about cults.
And karma's kind of become a cult, right?
And it's not because of me.
I'm like, I tell people, hey, we're omnivores.
This is a therapeutic protocol.
Use it for as long as you like.
If you want to do it for a lifestyle, have at it.
It's fine.
I'm not going to.
But what I think was happening with fiber in a lot of ways, because fiber goes back to, what's the researcher's name?
I'm blanking on his name.
He had a cancer named after him.
Anyway, from 1920s, 1930s, goes to Uganda in Africa and notices like, oh, these people aren't fat and sick like they are in England.
And Burkitt, Dennis Burkitt's the guy's name.
And he says, well, oh, they're eating a lot of fiber.
But they weren't also, they weren't eating a lot of sugar and they weren't eating a lot of garbage like they were in the UK. Sugar's been around since about the 1600s and progressively has increased.
I mean, the U.S. right now, it's kind of interesting.
Compared to the early 1800s, the average kid by the age of something like eight has eaten more sugar than they would have eaten in a lifetime back 150 years ago.
So it's kind of crazy.
By the time they're eight years old, the average eight-year-old has eaten more sugar than somebody would have eaten in their entire life.
And that's just the normal kids.
You see some of these kids who are just like...
I mean, Jamie, I got a picture I got to show you.
This is so incredible.
There's a gal before and after picture.
We got this food addiction stuff.
So I interviewed a gal.
She was 800 pounds, right?
It's like, how do you get to 800 pounds?
It's like impossible.
Like, I don't think I could do it if I tried, right?
I mean, you know, food addict.
Couldn't stop eating chocolate and ice cream and all that stuff.
Refrigerator next to him and his whole life isn't and this guy did the same thing he said he spent like He said he went he fasted one time for 40 days trying to lose weight just and he never left his chair He laid he just sat there for 40 days and didn't eat Wow can you imagine that's like hell that's like hell on earth You know, but now he's like now.
He's going back to work He's getting out in the field and he's working doing all like electrical work or something like that But I mean it's just the sugar In one, you know, I know there's people out there saying, listen, not sugar's fine, it's all seed oils and stuff like that, but I think clearly there are people that are addicted to either sugar or sugary foods.
You know, it's like, you know, because you're like, would you eat chocolate if there's no sugar in it?
I mean, it's like, you know, that 100% dark is kind of like...
They're getting kickbacks to promote all this unhealthy behavior and unhealthy food, and they're going through what I eat in a day, and it's like, you know, everything.
It's like Doritos and cookies and Cokes and all the garbage that they're chowing down on.
And, you know, we've got this whole...
The body positivity movement is being funded by the processed food industry.
It's wild, because some people will read that, and people that are extremely averse as to being labeled right-wing, or being labeled racist, or xenophobic, or whatever it is, they're terrified of those labels.
They don't want that smoke.
And so they see these things, and it does affect the way they view the world, as ridiculous as it sounds.
And maybe one article won't do it, but if you see enough of them over time, you will associate that activity with some sort of problematic label that could be put on you, which is incredible that we're so easily influenced.
I'm like, that is so wild that they can do that with a straight face.
Because I've said, hey, maybe we should look into universal basic income.
Maybe we should look into universal healthcare.
I think education should be free.
I think we should subsidize the schools, and we should fix the roads, and we should fucking fix inner cities.
If you're going to use tax dollars, and if I thought my tax dollars were being used very appropriately in that way, I'd be 100% in favor of all that stuff.
If I thought it really was an overall benefit to society.
The problem is bureaucracy and big government is insanely inefficient.
Like if you were talking about If there was some sort of private industry and the private industry only profited if something was successful and they got involved in these particular activities, if they got involved in education, if they got involved in dietary health, and the only way they were profitable is if their methods were effective because there's a free market.
That would probably work, but when you get the government involved, all it does is make the government employees more wealthy, it makes the government larger, and it makes them protect that industry.
We covered that with the homeless thing in California.
If you're not aware, there's people that are working on the homeless.
There's like a shitload of them, and some of them are making a quarter million dollars a year, and they are not putting a fucking dent in it.
They're not effective at all.
In fact, the only thing that I saw that was effective at all in stopping the tents in the homeless situation was when Xi Jinping did San Francisco!
I think they have fucking no cards and they're looking at this this game and I don't know I think they're depending upon party loyalty and they're depending upon Trump getting convicted and arrested I mean and in imprisoned rather I don't know if that's gonna happen.
I don't think it is.
It doesn't seem, it seems like it's a bunch of trumped-up charges, no pun intended.
Yeah, I mean, I just, again, I'm not a political commentator, I'm not an expert, but it does seem like, really, like, why are they going after him so hard right now when they could have done it?
Like the hotel thing or the valuation of the property from 20 years ago.
The valuation of the property is so obvious, so off what it should be.
$18 million for Mar-a-Lago?
I'd fucking buy it.
I'd fucking buy it immediately.
If that shit was $18 million and you were the only one that was able to buy it, you'd be a fool not to scoop it up because you could sell it right away.
You can get a loan and you can sell that bitch right away for who knows how much.
I think Forbes valued it, I think it was like well over 700 million.
And Trump thinks it's worth over a billion.
And he might be right.
That's what's crazy.
It's a giant piece of property in one of the most valuable pieces of land in all of America.
I mean, a house next to him, down the street, a much smaller place, sold for 50. Yeah, so it doesn't make sense.
It does make sense if you want to look at banana republic tactics.
I mean, when you're imprisoning and trying to convict your political opponents, which is, the problem with that is, even if you think Donald Trump is a crook, even if you think that he should be arrested, This sets a precedent for future presidents.
If we get someone who is not just Donald Trump, who has a lot of people in the center that say, hey, his economic policies were effective, his foreign policies were effective, even if I think he's a jerk, maybe that would be better to have a jerk run the country in a way that's better overall than what's being done right now.
Even if you looked at that.
What if someone further right than him steps in?
What if a war breaks out?
What if things get even crazier?
What if nationalism really upticks?
Then you have someone who is now in power that is far right, like has happened.
All over the world.
If that happens and that person, if that precedent has been set for prosecuting your political opponents and going after them with trumped up charges, we have a horrible situation.
And that's one of the reasons why we have to stick with the rule of law.
We have to stick with the way this country was founded on.
These principles were set up because they wanted to mitigate corruption at its base level at every step of the way.
They wanted to stretch it out so no one Could be an authoritarian dictator and run America.
Yeah, because you talk about the backlash, because you saw, like, recently in Argentina, you know, a guy who's a libertarian won, and then just in the Netherlands, which is kind of interesting, because they were like, in the Netherlands, they're trying to get rid of cows.
They're like, oh, these cows are farting, they're killing the atmosphere, and the farmers were like, we don't like this.
And so they had this, I guess, this PVV or PPV party, Freedom Party, and they won that by a landslide.
Everyone at this point in time should realize that we got hoodwinked.
Everyone should realize that it was an overall net negative for children that got kept out of schools, masks, all the shit that we saw that went on.
Forget about just the vaccines, the lockdowns, just what they did, the closing of businesses, the essential businesses.
That they had big chains labeled as essential, but these small mom-and-pop stores were forced to go under.
People had worked their whole lives to develop these businesses, and they took them away from them.
And it's fucked up.
And the fact that no one is outraged still, and that this narrative has been allowed to be portrayed through the mass media, that this isn't a major problem, and that this cannot happen again.
It's so hard for guys like you and I that work out all the time, but it's so important.
And one of the things that I realized...
I was getting a lot of stem cells in my left knee in particular.
I had a torn MCL and I just wasn't letting it heal properly.
I would get the stem cells and then four weeks later I'd go back to Muay Thai and I'd be smashing the bag and kicking the pads and then my knee would swell up again and I was like, fuck.
And I was thinking, God damn it, I don't want to get surgery.
And then I would go back again, get more stem cells, do it again.
Then I finally got the stem cells and I said, okay, I am going to take a year off of kicking.
And I didn't do any kicking at all for a year.
Now it's back to full strength.
I have no problems with it.
I'm slamming the bag, no problems, it doesn't hurt.
It's still a missing meniscus in there because I had it scoped in 2003, I believe it was.
And so there's a chunk of...
I had a bucket handle tear.
It was a real problem.
It was a nasty meniscus tear that I had.
So they removed some meniscus, which can contribute to arthritis if you're not careful.
I haven't been doing much grappling lately so I've been doing more striking than that but it was mostly because of my knee because I just wanted to give it time off and now that it's better and then I was going through El Conti season and El Conti season I didn't want to fuck anything up because You know when you elk hunt you have to you know, you're doing 10 12 miles a day and you're doing it in the mountains So most of my work was I was doing rucking.
I was doing a lot of farmers carries I was doing elevated treadmill with weight on my back I was doing a lot of things like that that is just designed Stairmaster I was doing all the different knees over toes stuff box steps all these different things just specifically to condition my legs for the mountains and And I didn't want to fuck my knees up.
But that's over, so now I can go back to jiu-jitsu again.
It's so fun, but really drilling and live drills, you know, like, you know, you and especially if you get good training partners.
Good training partners are everything.
Someone who gives you like 50%, 60% resistance and then you go through a pass phase, you know, you go through a guard pass phase or you go through a back mount phase, you know, whatever your routine is that you do.
Just Fucking do that over and over and over and over again.
I made my biggest leaps when I was a blue belt because I'm good friends with Eddie Bravo and He and I would drill twice a week.
We would just get together and nothing but drill.
Nothing but drill.
And it made massive leaps in my improvement because I was conditioned to hit those, my body knew what, just like tying, he would describe it like tying your shoelace.
You don't even think about tying your shoelace, right?
You get it, once you know how to do it, you just, it just does that.
You want that with your jiu-jitsu techniques.
And the way to get that with your jiu-jitsu techniques is to drill.
I try to play like I have my better roles with the with the higher belts like the black belts because I Mean because they know like they can dial it back in there Yeah, it's just kind of like they kind of let you work a little bit So that's really and I always but I always try to get the harder ones because I'm like, you know I'm like I'm big guy and I like, you know That's a problem Tuesday.
Yeah, you know when big guys it's hard for them to learn that's like a big guy that has a guard is so fucking dangerous and That's why Fabrizio Verdum was so dangerous because he was a heavyweight, a giant guy who had a lethal guard because it's so rare because big guys can just get on top.
They get on top and smash the smaller people and that's fun.
And so they do that more often than not.
And it's very rare that you get a big guy that has really sharp, sharp technique.
Most people say the best jujitsu to learn is learn jujitsu from a smaller person.
You learn jujitsu from, you know, like one of the Mendez brothers or Hoyler Gracie or someone who's a smaller person physically, Marcelo Garcia.
What learning and training is supposed to be about is drilling those techniques into your central nervous system, drilling those techniques into your mind and your body so that when the opportunity arises, like when you hit an arm drag, your body immediately knows what to do.
It's just instantaneous.
It's not like, oh, okay, I got the elbow and I pull.
I mean, that makes total sense because it's like, you know, like, It's kind of funny, before I hurt my neck, I got all these Danaher videos.
I'm like watching them like, oh yeah, because John is like, he's funny.
I mean, it's just like, you listen to him talking on his videos, and he'll just say something off the wall.
It's like, oh yeah, it's like if you were hanging out at the strip joint last night.
I'm like, what?
He throws these funny things in there, and he's such a good guy describing what you're supposed to be doing, what you're supposed to be thinking, why you're doing it.
I enjoy that, but...
But again, then you go to a live role and you're like, wait a minute, it's changing too fast for me to keep up.
When you meet guys that drill versus guys that don't drill, it's a giant leap in their improvement, the guys who drill.
Another thing that really helps is teaching.
When my friends who realized that they really loved jujitsu and they started teaching lower belts to make a living, they didn't want to do their job anymore, so they got a job teaching private lessons.
Those guys got so much better.
It's really incredible.
It's extraordinary the leap that they make.
Because they're concentrating on the basics and they're explaining it to people.
So when they're explaining these things to people, it's like cementing it in their mind, like really carving those grooves deeply in their mind and their body so their body knows exactly what to do in those situations.
If you're thinking of any of that stuff, you're quickly going to be choked.
It's kind of funny, and this is trying to explain that.
My spouse sees me coming in, my face is all scratched up, I got black eyes.
She's like, why the fuck are you doing this stuff?
It doesn't compute to her, but I'm like, it's so fun.
It's just like, it's so...
There's such a positive trade-off for that.
Like I said, I'm just thinking about longevity and stuff like that, and it's like, yeah, if I get hurt, then I can't train, and then that's going to have a negative impact on me, so it's kind of balancing that out so that you can still continue to do the things that keep you healthy and still enjoy this.
The whole thing is getting your body to adapt to this insane environment, making more brown fat, elevating your cold shock proteins, and also ramping up your dopamine in a significant manner.
When you get out of there, your dopamine ramps up for 200%, and it's like that for hours.
World Carnivore Month, which is when I first did it.
So I've got them now where they're cold plunging after workouts.
And eventually, within the next couple of weeks, we're going to start with a cold plunge.
That's next level.
That's when it gets hard.
Then I'm saying, look, I start them off.
Every workout starts out with 100 bodyweight squats, 100 pushups.
And I tell them, if you can only do 5, do 5. You don't have to do 100. I'm doing sets of 20. If you want to do sets of 5, do 5. The most important thing is we want to build a base.
So if you get to 5 and you're struggling, stop right there.
I'm not trying to kill anybody.
I'm just trying to give you guys a base so you have a good time.
So we're all laughing.
We're having a lot of fun.
I'm running through these workouts.
We're doing it 3-4 days a week, and then we get in the cold plunge.
We get in the sauna first, which is the way I've been doing it with them, so they get to the point where they're actually kind of looking forward to the cold.
Because I don't fuck around with the sauna.
I get that bitch up to 185 degrees.
We sit in there for 20 minutes.
If anybody complains, I throw water on the rocks.
I'm like, come on, man.
This is the whole...
I know you can do this.
I know you don't want to do this, but the whole idea is when it's done, you're going to feel better because you did a thing that you didn't think you could do or you think you had to quit.
You don't have to quit because sometimes they'll be in there like, I got to get out.
No, you don't.
You have four more minutes.
You can do anything for four minutes.
Almost.
But just fucking concentrate.
Concentrate and relax and just deal with it.
Count to ten and then count to ten again and then keep doing that.
And eventually it'll be four minutes.
Just do it.
And then afterwards, I get them in the cold.
And when I get them in the cold, they get out, they're like, oh my god, I feel amazing.
I go, don't you feel great?
So, by doing it this way, where I'm just introducing them First two bodyweight exercises, then to very light kettlebells.
You know, like 12-pound swings, cleans presses, some windmills.
And then now I've got them doing renegade rows, a little bit more difficult.
You know, and then now I've got them doing, you know, like the rogue glute ham machine.
So I've got them doing like those sit-ups where you hang low and come all the way up.
I'm like, if you only do three, do three.
I'm doing sets of 15. You don't have to do what I'm doing.
Just do, because I've built up to this.
We're going to do those.
Then we're going to do some back extensions.
I'm going to strengthen your core.
We're going to do some reverse squats with the pulley machine.
So we're going to do those with 50% of your body weight.
If you can only do 2, do 2. I want you to get up to 10. And we're going to do sets of 10 eventually.
But we're going to build a base.
And so we build this base, and now these guys are fucking happy, they're confident, they're coming to the green room before the show's like, dude, I feel fucking great!
There's a lot of my friends who are surprisingly funny.
A lot of them are uneducated.
But they're also very smart.
They're very smart.
They're what you call street smart or wise.
They get things.
They understand people.
They're armchair psychologists.
They understand what makes people think and behave.
Like Patrice O'Neil is one of the greatest comics of all time.
He was diabetic.
And he was a big, overweight guy, but he was brilliant, and he had an understanding of human psychology that came from life experience and whatever shit he went through when he was younger that he brought to the stage.
And he would have been better if he was healthy, which is crazy, because he was so good already.
So these guys are all guys that I work with all the time.
So if I'm doing shows there Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, I'm doing shows with these guys.
So there's like a really cool camaraderie and brotherhood with all these guys and we all work out together.
And, you know, it's like, I don't like that term team building because I don't think about it as like a corporate environment, but there's something to that.
Like we're all brothers and we get together and we have fun together.
And they're learning.
They're learning.
They're like, oh my god, this actually makes me feel better.
And they were never involved in anything like this before.
They never had, like, organized workouts on a regular basis.
But the fact that they're all going through it together as beginners, and that they're getting guided by someone like me who loves them, and who is already fit, and they could see the benefits.
And I'm telling them, dude, keep going.
You will have a fucking six-pack before you know it.
You will be better.
You will feel healthier.
Change your diet.
Change what you do.
Change how you live your life.
Make sure you get your sleep in.
Start taking vitamins.
Listen, athletic greens is the fucking easiest thing to take.
Take a scoop, put it in water, spin it up.
You got vitamins.
Dude, give your fucking body the nutrients it deserves.
Yeah, I mean, is there ever, like, I mean, there's some, like, I can remember through the years, like John Belushi, John Candy, these giant, you know, they all died early, right?
There's another, no, I can't remember the guy's name.
Anyway, he was a big chubby kid and he lost a lot of weight and I can't remember what his name was, but he was in like Superbad or something like that.
And it's like, so, HopDotty made a video, like, we're getting rid of Beyond Meat, and they threw it in the garbage, and this comic print pal, making this funny little, it's like a three-minute funny video.
And Beyond Meat actually sent them a cease and desist, stop making fun of us.
I don't know if he went to jail or if he was convicted of something.
I don't know what the sentence was.
But yeah, and this was because they were – what were they saying that was like – Jamie will find it.
But it's something egregious because it was a very subtle parody where you could say that this was just not true.
These are falsehoods.
So here it is.
Man who spread misinformation on Trump's behalf, sentenced to seven months.
The man, Douglas Mackey, spread internet memes meant to fool people into not voting for Hillary Clinton in 2016. So what were the memes?
Let's find out what the memes were.
Okay, but let's find out what the thing...
Evidence...
Hold on, scroll up a little bit.
Evidence show that the participants discuss generating interest in emails stolen from the Clinton campaign by Russia, portraying Ms. Clinton as a warmonger and promoting the claim that she had cheated during the primaries to get supporters of Senator Bernie Sanders to hate not just Hillary, but the Democratic Party itself.
Mr. Mackey published, pushed the hashtag, right in Bernie, hashtag right in Bernie, evidence showed, and stated that women and naturalized citizens should not be allowed to vote.
He also wrote that black people were unintelligent and gullible, and suggested spreading a hashtag, hashtag never vote, in black social media spaces.
Yeah, but here's the thing, like, this was all parody.
I'm 90% sure.
Let's find out what he actually made.
But I remember looking at the things that he made and going, wow, that was...
I just discovered a couple of days ago, but you are debating this guy, and you, by the way, you played this brilliantly, where you just had this, like, little smile on your face, and you let him talk, and this guy was saying that you've never met a vegan like me.
Not only do I not think that you should eat meat, because you were talking about the animal kingdom.
What about the animal kingdom?
He was like, oh, I don't think the animal kingdom should exist.
Well, I think that's a deeply unhappy person that's probably very depressed and also a contrarian to the point of complete illogical thinking.
Like, the idea that you would think that all predator and prey animals that exist on Earth, including Africa, in the wild, like, areas where there are no human beings ever, and these animals all coexisted in this very balanced food chain where you have predators and prey and the predators keep the prey animals in check and that there's this, like, balance in terms of population.
The fact that you think that human beings should somehow or another stop that and replace it with human infrastructure.
And you're saying we would do a better job as humans Yeah, I would even go so far as I think the end goal should be to ditch this ball because it's a liability in and of itself.
Would you disagree that if you make human infrastructure over where there is usually a huge amount of suffering and death and rights violations, most likely this...
I mean, it's one of the things that's been discussed ad nauseum, but Ted Nugent covered it.
That if you want to kill the most things, eat a vegan diet.
If you're thinking...
Like, you made this argument that one cow...
One cow is one life, and it's probably better to eat cows, because if you eat a cow, that's an enormous animal, and you could eat that cow for like six months.
But when you eat grizzlies and you eat particularly brown bear that are coastal, which are the really large ones, they're eating a lot of fish and they might taste like shit.
Whereas if you get a black bear that is munching on blueberries, they're sensational.
Steve Rinella says it's some of the best meat he's ever eaten in his life.
And when there's a video of him, see if you could find Steve Rinella blueberry bear.
So they specifically target these fall bears that are eating blueberries.
And when he opens it up, he says they smell like blueberries.
You have to make sure you cook it to 150 plus degrees to avoid trichinosis.
I forget what the number is.
unidentified
That fat will wind up sitting on top of the water.
But for deep frying meat, it's better to have pure oil.
But if you just wanted oil out to drink, just if you needed like, you know, a quick energy charge, you can do it that way a lot faster than rendering it like this.
My brother one time I watched, he like rendered a mug full of bear fat and just drank it like coffee.
That's how good that stuff is.
And hunters like Daniel Boone, I mean, that guy would shoot bears just for oil.
He could sell the stuff.
It was a marketable commodity.
You can continue to cook these fat pieces down, down, down.
And they'll just mind being crispy little treats like little pork.
Black bears are more likely for some reason to kill people for food, whereas brown bears and grizzly bears, generally they kill people because they get startled or it's a mama and her cubs.
But the interesting thing, you said about the blue stuff and the fat.
So, Jamie, I've got a paper, I think it's from Stephan Van Vliet, about phytonutrients in meat.
So we talk about phytonutrients, right?
You gotta get all your plants to get your phytonutrients.
Meat actually contains thousands of phytonutrients.
So when those animals graze, they actually absorb that phytonutrients, and it goes into their fat, into their tissue, and so you actually get it in almost as much or even more than you can get in plants, because we ignore that.
But meat, like Stephan Van Vliet, who was a researcher, Initially out of Duke, he's not like Utah State, showed that meat has something like 50,000 unique compounds.
It's not just amino acids and a little bit of vitamins and minerals.
It's 50,000 unique compounds, and many of them are phytonutrients.
So it's pretty amazing.
Because a bear can eat a hell of a lot more than I can.
You know, it's one of those things that, you know, I mean, I don't know what your opinion is on taste.
I mean, I know you like a lot of elk.
And so, you know, it's kind of funny because I become like the meathead guy, right?
Like everybody, I get a lot of ranchers to send me stuff.
They're like, here, have some free meat.
I'm like, hell yeah, I'll eat that stuff.
And I get, you know, I get a little bit of everything.
I get some really crazy, like, there's a, well, one in Colorado, Colorado Craft Beef, which Jaco has invested in.
They're part of that partnership.
They got really good meat, but it's, you know, it's pasture raised, and then they feed it, and they finish it out themselves, and they have their own facility.
But there's like one in like Montana.
They finish their cows out on sprouts, which is kind of interesting.
And sprouts can grow like, you don't even need light.
All you need is water.
And they grow very massively.
And so this guy said in a building that's like 40 by 60, he can grow enough sprouts to finish out 400 head of cattle, which takes up almost no room.
It's like amazing.
So it's called McCafferty Ranch Beef up in Montana.
And they're trying to, you know, trying to Spread is because you think about we're talking about how do we sustainably feed people more meat because I think that's a real issue.
And that's, you know, one of those things that's out there.
So it's kind of because I think, you know, again, I don't think everybody needs to be on carnival, but I do think we should probably eat less junk food, more meat.
I mean, I think that would be a clear win for society in general.
And it's like, well, how do you do that?
I mean, we used to have...
This goes back to the beef checkoff.
I mean, their job is to promote beef, but since 1977, our beef consumption in the U.S. is down like 30%, 40%, and yet diseases are going up.
So it's like the exact opposite direction.
And literally, like half a million ranchers have gone out of business since the 70s.
I mean, it's like we talk about 3,000 farms closing in the Netherlands.
Half a million have gone out of business here in the U.S., which is...
Chris, I'm always trying to support your local rancher, you know, whatever your preference is, but, you know, get these guys out there, because, I don't know, I mean, these guys are good.
I mean, just like everybody else, I mean, ranchers are hard-working people.
I think they're one of the backbones of this country.
I mean, you know, you get people that feed you.
I mean, whatever it was, because it used to be back in, you know, 200 years ago, everybody had produced their own food.
Now you've got like 2% of the population feeding all the rest of us.
I've interviewed all these regenerative guys, and I'm totally for that.
I think it's wonderful.
It's great.
It improves the ecosystem.
It's like something we need more of.
It's just incentivizing the guys, because a lot of the guys are on more kind of a commodity beef, which he likes to call it.
He doesn't like it anymore.
A lot of those guys are like, I'm worried I'm going to go out of business if I try this, because maybe they're up in North Dakota where it snows all the time, and they're like, where am I going to get the alfalfa and the hay to feed this stuff?
But he's also recreating nature in a contained environment, which is really what we should all be striving for.
What we want is these animals to exist in a way that's ethical, humane, and that they exist in a way that they've existed for hundreds of thousands of years.
And that's how they're healthy.
And if you eat that, you will be healthier.
There's no pesticides, herbicides, no bullshit involved.
Yeah, in a perfect world, they would invest all their money into regenerative farming.
If people change their diet and they realize, look, the only thing people are buying is grass-fed meat and organic vegetables, all from regenerative organic farms, if that really became something that was sustainable, they would try to pursue that.
Yeah, no, I think the market will dictate where things go, and it's just convincing the market that, hey, look, you know, if you want to continue to be Sad and depressed and miserable.
Keep doing what you're doing, but you got to change it.
You know, you got to make a big change.
And that's what, you know, I mean, we'd be told not to do it.
Well, that's but I mean I will say this and because you I mean I'm sure you agree that what distinguishes healthy people that age in a very healthy matter.
I mean diet is important and I'm a huge proponent but physical activity and Exercise is such a huge.
I mean, I don't care what diet you are.
You need to be taking care of your health and I think You know, because I hear it all the time.
Oh, you're in your 50s.
You need to slow down.
You need not be doing that stuff because you're going to get hurt and it's time to get down.
But I mean, I've heard that since I've been 20 or 30. Oh, you're 30. You've got to slow down.
I think once you lose capacity, like, you know, if you say, like, my 100% was here, and then you say, I'm not going to do 100% anymore.
I'm just going to do 90%.
Well, that 90% is now your 100%.
And then you keep doing it, and all of a sudden, it's like, you know, walking down the street is now a chore, you know?
It's like, I had a guy talk to me about, I thought it was a good guy named Ted Naiman, he's a doctor that I interviewed one time, he said, you know, what happens is, over life, you have this sort of spectrum of things you can do.
This is me laying in bed, and this is me doing backflips, right?
And then it gets smaller.
And smaller.
And eventually you're like, all I can do is walk around the house and then all I can do is lay in bed and then you're dead.
So you need to keep this as broad as possible.
And that's why I say when people say, you need to slow down.
Well, you look at guys like Stallone and Schwarzenegger, they're mid-70s now, and they're still like...
I mean, granted, they're taking stuff, but I mean, at the same point, we've never had a time in human history where we've experienced people that are pushing it that way and still training hard into the late years.
And I've seen people like...
In their 90s, I saw a guy who's 91 years old.
He's deadlifting 405 for a triple at 90, and he only weighs like 148. That's incredible.
It's like, where did this guy come from?
So it's like, what is going to be possible?
And you know, like I said, I don't know.
I always, the longevity stuff, I was like, I don't know.
I mean, I don't think anybody really, really knows.
I think you're just speculating.
My thing is like, Let's get healthy today.
Let's stop being sick and then just keep doing that.
And then if you live extra long, great.
But, you know, because a lot of people say, well, if you eat a carnivore diet, you're going to have a heart attack at 60. I'm like, I don't know that that's true.
I mean, maybe I will, but I don't think we have enough data to support that.
What I can say is, like, if you're sick, you're diabetic, you're fat, you're high blood pressure, I can fix that by diet.
Let's just do that, and I think we would just focus on that instead of, like, protecting people from cancer when they're 90, which is like, you don't even know.
Well, what we know, what you can do for what you are right now, where you are right now, that if you change your diet and you eat healthier foods and you exercise, you'll feel better, you'll be better.
That's a fact.
Whether or not you're looking at, like, look, clearly these people that are eating off the Twinkie tree, they're not worried about being 150 years old either.
Like, this is nonsense, and that's a bullshit argument.
Like, you're going to get off a heart attack, you're going to die young.
And what, your sedentary lifestyle, eating fucking Oreos?
But immediately started feeling better because she's giving her body what she needs.
How many of these people are suffering?
If you think of the vitriol that comes from the vegan community and so much anger and so much hate and just horrible things they say about people.
How much of that is based on, like, hurt people hurt people, right?
How much of that is based on them being in pain and them being in agony, whether it's mental anguish because their brain's not functioning well, their body's not functioning, they're overwhelmed with inflammation, their guts are filled with fiber?
Well, listen, man, I'm glad you're out there preaching the gospel.
And I'm glad you're still alive all these years later.
You're still healthy and everything's fine.
And I think what you're doing is important because I think people need to understand that We've been kind of hoodwinked in more ways than one and that you can kind of follow the chain of evidence and you can figure out how this happened and why this happened.
And it's not to preserve your health.
It's not evidence-based.
And when you look at the real evidence that supports vegan diets and supports that meat is bad for you, you find out that that's a bunch of chicanery too.
There's a lot of bullshit going on there, and so I'm glad you're out there, Sean.
Appreciate giving me the platform to talk on this show, because I think, like I said, it's literally, it's helping people, and I think anything that helps people, we should be in favor of, and like I said, I think, because we're seeing...
People are like saying, we need to shut down meat.
We can't eat it anymore.
And I think that's a really, it's going to have some really bad unintended consequences.