June 17, 2020 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:33:08
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
One. | |
| Steve! | ||
| Yes, sir! | ||
| Good to see you, buddy. | ||
| Good to see you, brother. | ||
| Really good. | ||
| Pleasure to meet you, man. | ||
| Thanks for having us today. | ||
| Yeah, really, thanks. | ||
| It's been a while. | ||
| I saw you... | ||
| The last time I saw you was at the old studio. | ||
| Three years ago. | ||
| It looks exactly... | ||
| It's eerie. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm going to do it again the next place I move. | ||
| I'm going to rebuild this whole thing again. | ||
| That's my move. | ||
| Just make it look like this. | ||
| Make it comfortable. | ||
| You like what you like. | ||
| It looks like the same thing. | ||
| Yeah, that way you don't get confused. | ||
| Same desk? | ||
| Yeah, this is great. | ||
| Good to see you. | ||
| Good to see you, too, brother. | ||
| I'm bummed out, though, about your sauce. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| I was just bragging to somebody about it the other day. | ||
| We grew too fast, but you have two of the last ones left. | ||
| I don't know what to do. | ||
| That inexistent. | ||
| Do I, like, let it sit on a shelf for a while? | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| Listen, the sauce was good. | ||
| It's all natural and organic. | ||
| It was all good. | ||
| Just unfortunately, it grew too fast, and my partner, you know, we had enough. | ||
| He lost a lot of money, but not for lack of trying, or the product. | ||
| No, the product's excellent. | ||
| Let me tell you the biggest fucking thieves. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Bigger than the mob, bigger than any thief. | ||
| These stores that you do business with, okay? | ||
| And the distributors. | ||
| And then you have all these people with their hand in the pie. | ||
| So we buy the sauce. | ||
| It's our recipe. | ||
| That guy makes it. | ||
| Now we got to give it to a distributor. | ||
| You can't go direct. | ||
| To like Whole Foods and shit. | ||
| So there's other hands in the pie. | ||
| Now you give them a bill for 20 grand of sauce that you gave them, and they send you back a check for 3 grand. | ||
| And they go, well, there was breakage, and there was this, and there was that. | ||
| And you have to pay more money in the store to have it in the front and have it stacked. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| You pay more? | ||
| You are fucked. | ||
| You are fucked. | ||
| Just like a book. | ||
| You know, I've had books. | ||
| I don't know if you... | ||
| I have books out. | ||
| Barnes& Noble. | ||
| To say Barnes& Noble, you had a book out. | ||
| You have a book out. | ||
| Barnes& Noble, favorite. | ||
| You gotta pay more for that. | ||
| To have the book on the shelf turned this way, you gotta pay more for that. | ||
| They nickel and dime you, and they fucking kill you. | ||
| They are the real mob. | ||
| I'm telling you. | ||
| Are they worse than funeral homes, though? | ||
| No one's worse than funeral homes. | ||
| Well, they tug on your... | ||
| Heartstrings. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Come on. | ||
| He was a great guy. | ||
| Aren't you going to have the nice box? | ||
| Did you start out doing this just through the internet, though? | ||
| You know, we started in the stores. | ||
| We didn't really, you know, we came to Amazon later. | ||
| My partner... | ||
| The trade shows. | ||
| Joe Scarp. | ||
| Joe Scarpino, great guy. | ||
| He was here last time. | ||
| He's my partner. | ||
| He put up the money. | ||
| He's a builder. | ||
| He said, we're going to make $50 million. | ||
| We're going to sell the company. | ||
| And he's got $50 million. | ||
| He doesn't need another $50. | ||
| Got a little greedy. | ||
| No, he wanted to go. | ||
| Listen, he's not a small-time guy. | ||
| It's all or nothing. | ||
| So I give him credit for that. | ||
| It's such a good sauce, though. | ||
| It kind of seems like you should just do it online. | ||
| Maybe they'll make a comeback, you know, and like I said, if we would have stayed small, delis, you know, it was doing great, Staten Island, you know, the biggest Italian area, you know, the Guinea gang playing there, all them Italians ate jar sauce, even they won't admit it, they fucking like that sauce. | ||
| Right? | ||
| It's a good sauce. | ||
| It's natural. | ||
| It doesn't have that acid-y thing that a lot of jarred sauces have. | ||
| You know, I did all the press. | ||
| We did all the shit. | ||
| I said if I would have, instead of being a partner, I should have made $20 an hour. | ||
| I did well. | ||
| So you guys are doing a podcast now? | ||
| We're doing a podcast. | ||
| Rewatch. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Sussman clued me into it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We got approached by a bunch of different producers towards the end of last year about doing it. | ||
| It wasn't our idea. | ||
| And... | ||
| We thought about it. | ||
| We had done a show like on stage in conversation, like inside the Actors Studio. | ||
| And we did all over the country, did Australia last year. | ||
| And then a couple of producers said, you know, do you want to do a podcast? | ||
| And we worked. | ||
| Jeff was the best of the producers, so we figured out a way to do it. | ||
| We were going to do it in the studio live like this at the end of March in New York. | ||
| The COVID hit. | ||
| Everything hit. | ||
| So we weren't going to do it at all. | ||
| We were going to put it off because we were depressed and we were like, who needs a podcast in the midst of all this stuff? | ||
| What is New York like right now? | ||
| You know... | ||
| I've been there. | ||
| I've been here a month now. | ||
| I have a place down in Orange County. | ||
| And New York was all fucked up. | ||
| And it's all boarded up. | ||
| My daughter's there. | ||
| I live downtown, way downtown. | ||
| And I was going out like an hour a day. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| I just went out an hour a day. | ||
| I would take a walk. | ||
| The streets are empty. | ||
| The streets are empty at night. | ||
| Now, after the looting, they destroyed Soho. | ||
| It's just destroyed. | ||
| And the cops are very timid. | ||
| And it's all fucked up. | ||
| I mean, it's all fucked up. | ||
| I don't know what happens there. | ||
| I mean, I don't know. | ||
| I don't know how it happened. | ||
| Like, seeing the cops just standing around while they were looting the art galleries in Soho while they were smashing Fifth Avenue. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| What the fuck is this? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It's like the end of the world. | ||
| You know, de Blasio's the worst fucking... | ||
| I'm not a political guy at all, Joe. | ||
| Like, not at all. | ||
| But he's the worst fucking human that maybe walks the face of the earth. | ||
| I kid you not. | ||
| And, you know, I owned an apartment in Manhattan for like nine years. | ||
| And when he became the mayor... | ||
| Within a year, you saw even six months, right? | ||
| You saw like these fucking changes. | ||
| I'm going, I'm out. | ||
| I'm selling my fucking place. | ||
| And I sold my place. | ||
| What changes? | ||
| All kinds of shit. | ||
| The cops, basically they have one hand tied behind their back. | ||
| He changed all these laws, stopping frizz, da-da-da. | ||
| Some needed to be changed, some not. | ||
| Just the homeless is everywhere all of a sudden. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| The trains are impossible. | ||
| There's all kinds of shit going on, you know, and I have to blame the mayor. | ||
| I mean, there's, you know, where I live downtown, there's... | ||
| Listen, I'm compassionate to the homeless. | ||
| I don't know the answer, which is why I'm not the fucking mayor, but... | ||
| They're everywhere. | ||
| Same thing here. | ||
| Our governor was the mayor of San Francisco, which is the craziest fucking place you've ever seen in your life when it comes to homeless people. | ||
| And now, after COVID, it's like ramped up 40%. | ||
| The homeless situation there, it doesn't even make sense. | ||
| Like you're seeing these beautiful homes and there's campsites in front of them. | ||
| And these people have to come out of their houses and tiptoe around needles and broken bottles and people's shit. | ||
| This might get worse, though, right? | ||
| After COVID with the economy, you know, collapsing as it did. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, that's what was happening with the COVID, too, in New York. | ||
| Because, listen, these guys standing on the corner, they're panhandling. | ||
| There was no one to get money from. | ||
| I mean, there was no one to panhandle. | ||
| The streets were completely empty. | ||
| Broadway, downtown, you could shoot a cannon to it, not a car. | ||
| Yeah, Mark Norman, you know the comic, Mark Norman? | ||
| Hilarious guy. | ||
| Filmed a bunch of shit with him just running around New York City with empty streets. | ||
| Nobody around. | ||
| How weird it looks. | ||
| Wall Street is empty. | ||
| All these places that are packed are empty. | ||
| I don't know the answer. | ||
| And with the cops, I don't know. | ||
| I mean, I just don't know. | ||
| It's all so bizarre, and I think so many people are either going to resign from the force, but definitely not join the force. | ||
| There's a lot of guys that are thinking about joining the force. | ||
| That's a tough job, man, for very little pay, and you're putting your life at stake. | ||
| And just public opinion of the force is down so low. | ||
| I don't get it. | ||
| If God forbid I had trouble, I call a cop. | ||
| I'm pro-cop. | ||
| I play a cop now. | ||
| I've been on Blue Bloods for five years. | ||
| I play a detective. | ||
| I'm pro-cop. | ||
| You play cops. | ||
| You're just playing a detective. | ||
| Played a homicide detective. | ||
| We went from wise guys to detectives. | ||
| There's a fine line. | ||
| Is there a fine line there? | ||
| But I agree. | ||
| New York is... | ||
| My daughter had just gone back, and it's really depressing, man. | ||
| You haven't been, right? | ||
| No, I've been in California since March 1st. | ||
| I was in New York before that. | ||
| And so, yeah, I couldn't go back, really. | ||
| But I live here and there, both places. | ||
| It was a little easier here up in the Santa Barbara area. | ||
| I love it up there. | ||
| Yeah, a lot easier to be quarantined there because you go outside and backyard and stuff like that. | ||
| Yeah, the beach. | ||
| Santa Barbara's the perfect size. | ||
| But I mean, I was in New York. | ||
| They shut us down March 13th. | ||
| With two and a half episodes to go, we just got shut down, and then you couldn't even go out of the house two days later. | ||
| I mean, I wasn't aware of anything. | ||
| I mean, the trains were packed. | ||
| I was taking the train and shit, and I went to a concert a few days before at the Beacon. | ||
| Dave Matthews and Jackson Brown, there was a fucking concert, but nobody said anything. | ||
| Jackson Brown got sick. | ||
| Yeah, he got sick. | ||
| Maybe at that concert. | ||
| You know, maybe. | ||
| But then it was just... | ||
| I was there for two months and it was gloom. | ||
| And I'm in a building. | ||
| So you gotta watch the elevator, the fucking doorman, the thing, you know. | ||
| Order food in. | ||
| It makes me crazy. | ||
| Wipe off the package. | ||
| Don't wipe off the package. | ||
| Wear gloves. | ||
| Don't wear gloves. | ||
| What the fuck? | ||
| Nobody knows. | ||
| It's a very, very confusing time. | ||
| Nobody knows what the fuck is going on. | ||
| Doing a podcast was a good thing to do in the midst of all this because we figured out a way to do it at home so we didn't have to be in a studio. | ||
| Set up a little studio in the house and figured out a way to do it. | ||
| He was in New York and I was in California and that's how we started. | ||
| Yeah, it can be done. | ||
| There's so many people listening to shit now. | ||
| The thing is, consumers are up in terms of watchers, viewers of shows, listeners of podcasts. | ||
| It's all up because people were just sitting around doing nothing for months at a time. | ||
| Right, it was kind of particularly good timing for us because The Sopranos was being binge-watched by people in quarantine, like rediscovering it, young people who had never seen it. | ||
| I think it was HBO's number two series. | ||
| And that includes all their new stuff, like Game of Thrones and everything. | ||
| I think it was Westworld and The Sopranos were their biggest shows during quarantine. | ||
| The show's been off the air for 13 years. | ||
| Well, listen, this is one of the best fucking shows of all time. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| You guys were on, without a doubt, when the history is written, it is one of the best shows ever. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No, no. | ||
| You know what's amazing? | ||
| Neither one of us watched it in 20 years. | ||
| I mean, I don't watch the show. | ||
| I mean, I watched it one time when it came out years ago. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And we were kind of depressed, and we were going, who the fuck cares about a TV show now? | ||
| Because the world was coming to an end, especially at the beginning, you know, Joe? | ||
| And we had gotten offered shit, and Jeff helped us. | ||
| We were giving Jeff, like, contracts. | ||
| Is this a good deal? | ||
| Is this a good deal? | ||
| Finally, he said, listen, I'll fucking help you. | ||
| We should tell him that Jeff's my manager. | ||
| Yeah, Jeff Sussman. | ||
| So he helped us, and... | ||
| We started doing the rewatch, which is obviously bittersweet because of Jim. | ||
| You know, you're watching Jim and he's young. | ||
| I came on the second season, you know, the second episode. | ||
| But the show holds up every fucking... | ||
| Like it was shot yesterday. | ||
| Besides the phones and the computers, everything else is like it was done yesterday. | ||
| It's not dated at all, the show. | ||
| And we weren't going to... | ||
| You know, we were going to wait until things got back to normal so we could be in a studio like this and be face-to-face, but we got so much... | ||
| Communication from fans, like on social media, saying, hey, we heard you're doing a podcast. | ||
| Where is it? | ||
| We're binge-watching the show in quarantine. | ||
| Like, tons of, you know, tons of that. | ||
| So we figured out a way to do it. | ||
| So, you know, we watched the episode. | ||
| We're up to episode 12 now. | ||
| You know, it's on YouTube and wherever you get to podcasts. | ||
| And then we run down the episode. | ||
| He wrote five of them, so he knows a lot more than me. | ||
| I watch it more like a regular viewer. | ||
| We tell stories, behind-the-scenes shit, stuff that went on, stuff we remember. | ||
| We've had guests. | ||
| We've got Edie Falco next week. | ||
| We've had the casting people. | ||
| We've had the two kids, Robert Isler, director, you know, whoever made the show a success. | ||
| Costume designer, yeah. | ||
| Well, it's a great thing to do, to go back and review it, just to kind of give the people that are fans this sense of what it was like for you guys and what it's like to see it again. | ||
| And just to put it into context in history, that's the show that started off these kind of shows. | ||
| When you think about the shows that you have today, like the Ozarks and all these different... | ||
| Like really kind of wild shows where you have to follow one episode to the next and you have to know what just happened to pay attention to the new episode. | ||
| The Sopranos started that shit. | ||
| And it was also the first show where there was a real anti-hero. | ||
| And it was also bringing a cinematic quality to television that people would traditionally go to the movies for. | ||
| Even a novelistic quality. | ||
| Well, in a sense better, because you could do it over the course of many hours. | ||
| You weren't limited by an hour and a half, two hour time frame. | ||
| You could do it over the course of multiple hours. | ||
| And he wasn't, you know, listen, he was an overweight, balding guy. | ||
| He wasn't your typical leading man. | ||
| But he was sexy. | ||
| Chicks liked him. | ||
| They loved him. | ||
| I told you. | ||
| We used to say TV doesn't put 50... | ||
| He used to say all the time. | ||
| You know, they used to say TV puts 10 pounds on you. | ||
| I say it takes 50 pounds off you. | ||
| Well, there was something about his character. | ||
| I mean, first of all, he was a phenomenal actor, like always, always was. | ||
| I mean, he was fucking insane in everything he did. | ||
| True romance. | ||
| I mean, just go back through his whole history of his career. | ||
| But that show, doing Tony Soprano, just fucking synced. | ||
| Whatever it was... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Those moments when the actor and the role really come together. | ||
| Because they don't always. | ||
| They don't always. | ||
| He was fucking perfect for that role. | ||
| And you know, you see him, like, there's scenes, and now I look at it kind of differently, obviously, than back then, you know. | ||
| Back then I was just trying not to get fucking killed, you know. | ||
| Now you're watching it, and in one scene, there's some incredible scenes where he's happy, mad, furious, in one three-minute scene. | ||
| He goes through four different emotions. | ||
| He's amazing. | ||
| I don't know if you remember this, but when I first got the job, I had to go. | ||
| I got the job. | ||
| I auditioned. | ||
| I got the job. | ||
| I had to go to a read-through. | ||
| And I happened to see you. | ||
| I think you were working in Vegas at the Riv. | ||
| And I said, Joe, what? | ||
| I asked you in another comic. | ||
| I think Bill Kirkenbauer. | ||
| I said, what? | ||
| What goes on in a re-through? | ||
| Because even though I had worked, I didn't know. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| And I said, do you do it like 100%? | ||
| And you told me, you know, like 85%, 90%, like don't go all in. | ||
| You actually told me that. | ||
| For an audition or a re-through? | ||
| For the audition. | ||
| For the re-through. | ||
| A re-through. | ||
| I mean, do you fucking, you know, you're around the table. | ||
| I didn't. | ||
| Quite no if you go all, you know, fucking start acting, you know? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| Or you just read the lines, which some people do just flat, which is terrible. | ||
| I mean, that's not the answer. | ||
| There's people that actually get fired during the read-through. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| After a read-through. | ||
| There's actually, you know that, right? | ||
| Because they're so flat. | ||
| I didn't know. | ||
| I honestly, if I would have known that... | ||
| Well, they shouldn't really be there then. | ||
| They should have known that already. | ||
| Yeah, but if I would have known that you could get fired after the read-through, I would have been shit in my past. | ||
| I was so naive. | ||
| That I didn't even realize that. | ||
| Well, that's the interesting thing when I tell people that I knew you from the Riv. | ||
| They go, what did he do there? | ||
| I go, he was the talent coordinator. | ||
| I go, shut the fuck up. | ||
| I go, yeah, I worked for him. | ||
| I got booked by Steve Sharippa at the Riviera. | ||
| It was one of the first times I ever worked in Vegas. | ||
| It was great. | ||
| And you had gotten some gigs through Drew Carey. | ||
| You had done the Drew Carey show. | ||
| I did the Drew Carey show, Bruce Baum, help me, Kevin Pollack. | ||
| Those guys at the beginning, absolutely. | ||
| I did Drew's special. | ||
| What was the first acting you did, actually? | ||
| First acting I did was Bruce Baum on the golf course. | ||
| We did a thing. | ||
| Then Lenny Clark. | ||
| I played a prison guard. | ||
| What, in a special? | ||
| Yeah, he had like these... | ||
| Remember Friday Night Comics? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh-huh. | |
| Remember that show on Fox? | ||
| Yeah, they were like little sketches, five-minute sketches, and we had Lenny Clark in a... | ||
| He was in the chair, electric chair. | ||
| Is he from England? | ||
| No, he's from Boston. | ||
| And I pulled the switch. | ||
| I swear to you, I look right into the camera. | ||
| Right into the fucking camera. | ||
| I didn't know what I was doing. | ||
| That was the second thing I did. | ||
| Then Kevin Pollack put me in his special. | ||
| I played his bodyguard. | ||
| And then Drew and, you know, a little shit, a little shit, you know. | ||
| Did you start as an actor or comedian? | ||
| Comedian. | ||
| A comedian. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I only acted for a little while. | ||
| I just did news radio. | ||
| Do you like it? | ||
| I like stand-up better. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The acting problem is actors. | ||
| You have to hang out with actors. | ||
| That's the problem with acting. | ||
| Everything is so sensitive and just... | ||
| It's just, you know, some of them are great. | ||
| The news radio people were great. | ||
| It wasn't a problem. | ||
| The problem was when I'd run into other actors, you meet them. | ||
| There's just this boundary of bullshit you have to get to to get to the actual person. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Whereas comics are right there. | ||
| They're right there for you. | ||
| You meet a comic on the road, like a comic I don't know, I meet them like, hey, what the fuck are you doing? | ||
| Oh, I'm working for this guy and that guy. | ||
| He's right there. | ||
| They're right there. | ||
| You meet him instantly. | ||
| See, I find it the opposite. | ||
| Really? | ||
| How so? | ||
| Actors, I find, like what you're saying about comics, I find it about actors and I find the opposite about comedians. | ||
| You know what maybe that is? | ||
| It's that they're your people. | ||
| Because that's where you're coming from. | ||
| Right. | ||
| They know, oh, it's my goal. | ||
| I'm not saying that just to be contrary. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no. | |
| I believe you. | ||
| I just literally mean it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But also, there's a difference between New York actors and L.A. actors. | ||
| That is true. | ||
| There's a big difference between these TV actors, and there's something about they can almost fucking taste it. | ||
| It's like the actors that aren't quite there yet, they can almost taste it. | ||
| They're kind of working, but they're not secure. | ||
| They're getting auditions, and maybe they might book something, but maybe they won't. | ||
| Do you remember when we auditioned for... | ||
| We auditioned... | ||
| Look at you! | ||
| Look, that's my first thing I ever did. | ||
| Chia Man! | ||
| We shot it out here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Look. | |
| That's the tuxedo from the Riff. | ||
| Is it really? | ||
| Did you show this to David Chase to get the Sopranos? | ||
| You can see I'm not a golfer, obviously. | ||
| When you got the Sopranos, I was like, holy shit. | ||
| And for me, it was a thing that I would tell people. | ||
| It was like, listen, there's certain things that a person could just do. | ||
| You can't just go on stage and do stand-up. | ||
| It takes too long. | ||
| You can't just learn guitar. | ||
| But some people can fucking act. | ||
| And you were really good. | ||
| Not in theater, though. | ||
| In film and television. | ||
| It's different in theater. | ||
| Oh, God, yeah. | ||
| You can't just... | ||
| You can get somebody who's never acted, and if you're a good director or something, get them in front of a camera, make them feel comfortable, give them stuff to do, but you can't put them on a stage. | ||
| It's because of the crowd? | ||
| It's like doing, you know, like you said, with stand-up. | ||
| Yeah, crowd, you're on stage. | ||
| You have to... | ||
| You know, there's no second take. | ||
| You have to create these moments for two hours straight and sustain it. | ||
| It's not just getting a couple of lines. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But, you know, there's actors... | ||
| Like, you can't just learn stand-up. | ||
| It's a very underrated art form, okay? | ||
| Absolutely, to me. | ||
| You have to do it and do it and do it. | ||
| You're by yourself, you're out there. | ||
| There's actors, like, what's his fucking name? | ||
| Piven, the little fucker. | ||
| Jeremy Piven. | ||
| He's a stand-up comic now. | ||
| Now, how'd that happen? | ||
| Is he a stand-up comic? | ||
| I heard he's very good, though. | ||
| Or is he acting as a stand-up comic? | ||
| Did you see his stand-up? | ||
| I have not seen it. | ||
| What he's basically doing is what he can do. | ||
| I mean, I think because of all that shit that happened with him and the Me Too movement, there's nothing else he can do. | ||
| But do you know what I'm saying? | ||
| I mean, I've seen comics. | ||
| Listen, I was around comics from 1986. I started at the Riviera. | ||
| All right? | ||
| It's very difficult. | ||
| It takes guys years and years and years and years to find their voice, their rhythm. | ||
| Even if a comic, if you don't like their material, not every comic's for every guy, you know the guy's a pro. | ||
| He's really good. | ||
| It's subjective. | ||
| Hey, don't make me laugh. | ||
| This guy, I think, is hilarious. | ||
| But you know when a guy just don't have it. | ||
| I mean, this guy's, you know. | ||
| And there's numerous actors that... | ||
| Or humorists, whatever they are, that started doing stand-up without putting all the work in. | ||
| Yeah, I think what happens is the income opportunities get smaller. | ||
| Yeah, sure. | ||
| And then they look at stand-up and then someone says, listen, we can schedule a tour for you. | ||
| You know, you do this size. | ||
| I don't blame them for doing it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm just saying, I mean... | ||
| It's a different thing. | ||
| I don't blame them, but it's a different thing. | ||
| Hey, listen... | ||
| I heard he's good, though, Piven. | ||
| Is he? | ||
| I've read reviews. | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| I just find it hard to believe. | ||
| People were very surprised, actually, that he was good at it. | ||
| I still don't like the fuck. | ||
| They expected him not to be good. | ||
| He's a fucking rude fuck. | ||
| But me and you audition, I think you got the role. | ||
| We didn't audition for the same role, but it was Bob Simon's movie. | ||
| What movie is that? | ||
| I didn't get it, definitely, because I didn't do it. | ||
| The only movies I've ever done is Kevin James movies. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Because we auditioned and Pee Wee Herman came out. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yes, we auditioned Dave Sheridan. | ||
| What year is this? | ||
| We're going way back. | ||
| I was on The Sopranos already, but probably early 2000s. | ||
| We were there. | ||
| Dave Sheridan. | ||
| Oh, I know what you're talking about. | ||
| He was the star of the movie. | ||
| We didn't know who he was. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's right. | |
| I did that fucking movie. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| I forgot I did that movie. | ||
| And I said to you, who's this fucking guy or something? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's right. | |
| And you said, I think he overheard us. | ||
| He was the star of the movie. | ||
| What movie? | ||
| I forget the name of it, but he's a good guy, Dave Shad. | ||
| Yeah, very good guy. | ||
| A really good guy. | ||
| Very funny guy. | ||
| But I didn't, you know, I said, who's he? | ||
| I think you overheard us. | ||
| Who's Dave Shad? | ||
| He's a comic actor, you know, and a funny guy. | ||
| And Paul Rubens came out and he said, it's a great room, guys. | ||
| And we were just sitting there. | ||
| I didn't get it, you guys. | ||
| Yeah, that was an interesting take because that guy was a young guy and he had never been the star of a movie before. | ||
| And they were making this movie. | ||
| And because they put money into this, the executives were giving him line readings. | ||
| There was a guy who was wearing cufflinks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, really? | |
| And an expensive watch and this really nice tailored suit. | ||
| And he was telling him how to be funny. | ||
| That was Rob Simons. | ||
| That was probably the producer. | ||
| I don't know who it was. | ||
| Because I did a movie with him, See Spot Run. | ||
| And this was after that. | ||
| That's who it was. | ||
| Did he need line readings or the guy was just being an asshole? | ||
| He was just being a fucking guy with money. | ||
| He's lucky he didn't get smacked for something like that. | ||
| Certain situations. | ||
| You don't do that. | ||
| Well, I think, you know... | ||
| The guy wanted to do the movie. | ||
| He was happy to be the star of the movie, and he just took it. | ||
| Remember when they gave Dominic a line reading? | ||
| Dominic's the most calm. | ||
| Dominic Chiannese played Uncle Drew, the most calm guy, just sweetheart. | ||
| And somebody gave him line readings, and he flipped out. | ||
| I was in the car. | ||
| We were in the camera car, and I was driving on the New Jersey Turnpike. | ||
| They were towing the car, but the camera was there. | ||
| I was stuck. | ||
| I couldn't get out. | ||
| And the director came over and Dominic was going, don't tell me how to do it. | ||
| Just tell me what you want. | ||
| And this is the nicest man in the history, right? | ||
| And he was going, don't tell me how to do it. | ||
| Just tell me what you want. | ||
| What is the thing about actors with line readings? | ||
| Because now you're not discovering it. | ||
| You're not creating the moment. | ||
| You're just imitating it. | ||
| So it's not organic. | ||
| And it might not be as interesting as what you're going to come up with as an actor. | ||
| But it doesn't bother me so much. | ||
| A lot of directors don't know how to deal with actors, so they think that that's helpful. | ||
| But it's actually the opposite. | ||
| It's not helpful because... | ||
| When they give you a line reading, they would actually say the line the way they want? | ||
| Yes, sometimes they will. | ||
| And you know what? | ||
| That doesn't bother me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Bodies me. | |
| I flip out. | ||
| It hasn't happened much. | ||
| I've gone off on directors for that. | ||
| And listen, especially with a sitcom, which I find very difficult. | ||
| I find one-hour dramas... | ||
| I like that so much more. | ||
| Sitcom's a different rhythm, a different beat. | ||
| I don't think I'm very good at it, and I've done quite a bit of them. | ||
| You know, the guy's giving me a note. | ||
| I said, just tell me what you want, man. | ||
| How do you say it? | ||
| Tell me how to say it. | ||
| I'll fucking do what you want. | ||
| Because obviously, I'm not getting what you want. | ||
| I want to make the director happy. | ||
| I want to do a good job. | ||
| Tell me. | ||
| It doesn't bother me that much, you know? | ||
| I have had directors. | ||
| I did a movie with a young kid. | ||
| It was a really good role. | ||
| A younger kid. | ||
| After every take, he came over to talk to me. | ||
| Finally, I went... | ||
| Like, just let me fucking do my thing. | ||
| I'll figure it out. | ||
| Just stay away, man. | ||
| Yeah, they're not appreciative of the fact that you've got to think about what you're doing, and if they're yapping at you, then you're thinking about them, and it interrupts this whole process. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| You freak out, though, Michael. | ||
| Yeah, because as an actor, you're playing the scene, the reality of the scene, whatever it is. | ||
| This guy's saying something and it pisses you off. | ||
| So that's what you're trying to create. | ||
| That's what you're trying to do. | ||
| Someone tells you, say the line like this. | ||
| Well, then I'm not in the moment. | ||
| I'm not dealing with this. | ||
| I'm just thinking about imitating this douchebag who just told me to say something a certain way. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| I had a director who said to me, make a comical face. | ||
| Then I said, I don't know what that means. | ||
| Do you want me to be happy? | ||
| Do you want me to be ecstatic, over the top, really excited? | ||
| Make a funny face. | ||
| And then I said, I don't know what that means. | ||
| I think he said, be more cartoonish. | ||
| And then he said, well, I'm not really good at, I swear to God, he said, I'm not really good at giving direction. | ||
| I said, that's your job! | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's actually the title of the job, is direction. | |
| Well, do you feel like as an actor, it's a strange thing to do because you're creating something, but it's also this collaborative effort. | ||
| You're working with the other actors, but you're also working with the director. | ||
| There's the script that you're supposed to be following, and maybe there's some changes to the script, and there's so much going on to try to create your version of it that the more that people are fucking with you, the more that's going to just throw you off the rails. | ||
| It does. | ||
| And what I found is the best people, the best director, best actors and writers make it so you feel very comfortable and that you are free to create and that you're not being dominated and dictated to and stuff like that. | ||
| Like, for instance, the best example is Martin Scorsese, who I only worked with once in a movie. | ||
| I felt like I could do no wrong. | ||
| He creates that environment where you feel completely creative and free. | ||
| And that doesn't get better than him, you know. | ||
| Doesn't get better. | ||
| I would imagine that that's a real skill that you hone, to be able to look at it from the artist's perspective, from the actor's perspective, and just to figure out how to be the least annoying, the most supportive, and then just sort of convey what you're trying to get done in the scene. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| I mean, both ways. | ||
| As an actor, too, you learn how to deal with different types of directors and give them what they want and satisfy yourself at the same time. | ||
| When you're not a skill, when you're learning, it's harder to do that. | ||
| I got fired from my very first professional job. | ||
| I was 21. I had been studying for a long time. | ||
| I've been auditioning, never got anything. | ||
| I get a play. | ||
| And I was the lead in a play off-Broadway, but it got a lot of attention because it was based on a true story. | ||
| And I got fired after the opening weekend because I didn't respect the director. | ||
| I didn't think he knew what he was doing. | ||
| And I didn't know how to give him what he needed and still do my own thing. | ||
| I wasn't skilled enough yet, so they fired me. | ||
| It was devastating. | ||
| But, you know, a lot of... | ||
| Like, I worked with Clint Eastwood a few times. | ||
| And it's with the casting. | ||
| He's relying on you. | ||
| That's why he cast you. | ||
| So a lot of directors, even big ones, they don't even give you any direction. | ||
| They hired you. | ||
| And that's okay. | ||
| You did your thing. | ||
| I don't mind that. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| You did your thing. | ||
| And now, go ahead. | ||
| Take it away. | ||
| I mean, you know. | ||
| And it's a lot. | ||
| Like, he believes it's a lot with the casting. | ||
| Michael directed me in a movie that he wrote. | ||
| It couldn't have been better. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What movie is this? | |
| Called The Hungry Ghosts, a very low indie, very indie movie we did in New York in 2008. And Steve was one of the leads. | ||
| And it was great. | ||
| I mean, you know, it was all New York actors. | ||
| What's that? | ||
| What was it about? | ||
| You know, five people that are fucking lost. | ||
| Their life is lost. | ||
| I played a guy that was a radio DJ. Late night radio host. | ||
| That's a coke guy and drunk. | ||
| You could be a great radio DJ with that voice. | ||
| Probably with his kids. | ||
| But it was great. | ||
| We rehearsed at the time he had a theater. | ||
| We rehearsed because we didn't have a lot of money at times. | ||
| We rehearsed. | ||
| We got out on the street. | ||
| We did it. | ||
| Michael was terrific. | ||
| He knows what he wants. | ||
| I mean, that's the biggest mistake a director could make. | ||
| If they're hesitant, You know, they gotta know what they want before they come over and talk to you. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| There's a guy hemming and whoring. | ||
| You know, it's like, what the fuck? | ||
| But talking about line reading, there was an actor, a Broadway guy, that did The Sopranos, a small role. | ||
| And it was in a scene with me and Uncle Junior and this guy. | ||
| And they were actually giving him line readings. | ||
| He was a Broadway actor and he wasn't getting it. | ||
| And they wind up dubbing his voice. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| They dubbed his voice. | ||
| Did they, really? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I forget the guy's name. | ||
| When we get to the episode, I'll tell you. | ||
| That's insane. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But you know what else happened on the show numerous times? | ||
| Like, I did a scene with the rapper Fabulous. | ||
| And he was great. | ||
| There was a scene where I shot the guy in the ass. | ||
| I don't know if you remember that. | ||
| Oh, I remember that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm supposed to shoot him in the thigh because I'm a marksman and I get money from him and I shoot him in the ass by mistake. | ||
| But I shot it with Fabulous and then a few weeks later they said, listen, you got to reshoot that scene. | ||
| So right away I go, well, I fucked up. | ||
| No, they changed Fabulous to Fabulous. | ||
| Treach. | ||
| Naughty by nature. | ||
| Good guy. | ||
| They said he looked too young. | ||
| They just replaced him. | ||
| They had the budget and the time and they just brought in another actor. | ||
| And they would rewrite scenes. | ||
| If they didn't like the scene after they saw it, they would rewrite it. | ||
| And numerous times they brought in other actors. | ||
| There's two different FBI agents. | ||
| Feruza Balk, you know that actress? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| She was at the end of episode, season three or something. | ||
| She never came back. | ||
| Not only did they, they took her off the DVD. So unless you taped it, You know, like if you taped it back then? | ||
| What, they re-shot her scenes? | ||
| They re-shot her scenes, even for the DVD. Wow. | ||
| So she, unless she has a VHS of it somewhere, she's non-existent. | ||
| That's crazy, because she's a really good actress, too. | ||
| No, it wasn't, it probably wasn't anything to do with that. | ||
| It was, they didn't make a deal with her, maybe she was busy making a movie, I'm not saying it was like... | ||
| She's got a huge mouth. | ||
| Yeah, she was... | ||
| She smiles, she has this huge, huge teeth. | ||
| She was in Waterboy. | ||
| Yeah, that's right. | ||
| She was great in that. | ||
| I just watched that. | ||
| Me and my family went on a, because we stayed at home for the COVID thing, we had movie night every night. | ||
| We went on an Adam Sandler binge. | ||
| It's funny. | ||
| We watched everything. | ||
| Underrated fucking funny movie. | ||
| That's a funny movie. | ||
| The wedding thing is a funny movie. | ||
| The Zohan is hilarious. | ||
| That's funny. | ||
| That is a great movie. | ||
| Brushing your teeth with hummus. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Lenny Kazan, he's banging Lenny Kazan. | ||
| That's a really funny movie. | ||
| It's a very funny movie, man. | ||
| Naked, cooking, barbecuing naked. | ||
| Yes, with the fish. | ||
| And Nick is very funny. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Nick Swartz is great. | ||
| Nick is awesome. | ||
| I love Nick. | ||
| Who was the comics that inspired you to be a comedian? | ||
| Prior first, my parents took me to see Live in the Sunset Strip in the movie theater when I was like 15. He was brilliant. | ||
| Beyond. | ||
| You never met him? | ||
| Yeah, I did. | ||
| I worked with him. | ||
| I worked with him five weeks in a row, actually. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Towards the end of his life. | ||
| It was very odd for me because... | ||
| That was what really got me interested in stand-up. | ||
| Because in that movie theater, thinking, I'd never really seen stand-up before, I don't think. | ||
| Maybe I'd seen it on The Tonight Show or something like that, but I'd never really seen that. | ||
| And in this movie theater, here I am crying, laughing at this guy that was just talking. | ||
| And I was like, I can't believe he's just talking. | ||
| Because if I had seen a funny movie, it was funny, but it was never that funny. | ||
| I remember you said something about something about Mary. | ||
| You had just seen something about Mary and we were talking and you go, it's like a comic killing. | ||
| I'll never forget you said that. | ||
| Like, it's so funny, it was like a comic killing. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| That was the feeling that I got watching prior. | ||
| I was like, I can't believe how funny this guy is just talking. | ||
| I didn't know you could do that. | ||
| And you worked with him at the comedy store? | ||
| working with him at the comedy store towards the end of his life where he was really sick and they used to have to crank the volume up in the microphone like really loud. | ||
| He would get on stage and he was on all kinds of medication because, you know, he was sick and he had to sit down because he literally couldn't stand up. | ||
| They just carry him to the stage. | ||
| So they'd introduce him and they'd walk him through the crowd. | ||
| And I worked with him for five weeks. | ||
| I was on after him every night. | ||
| Like every night it was prior than me. | ||
| Because, you know, Mitzi Shore, who owned the comedy store, when she had a young comic that she liked, she would shove you after anybody was any good. | ||
| So if Martin Lawrence was on, I was on after him. | ||
| If Richard Pryor was on, I was on after him. | ||
| So you auditioned? | ||
| Did you audition for the improv and Comedy Store? | ||
| No, I didn't have to audition for the improv. | ||
| The improv, you know, if you had TV credits and stuff like that, they'd give you spots. | ||
| But that was later on. | ||
| But at the beginning, when you first got to L.A. No, when I first got out here, I had a TV show. | ||
| I was on a show called Hardball. | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| With Mike Starr. | ||
| Mike Starr. | ||
| Exactly, Mike Starr. | ||
| Shout out to Mike. | ||
| And that got canceled, and then I got on news radio right afterwards. | ||
| So the whole time that I was out here, I was on a sitcom. | ||
| And so the improv, I could just get spots. | ||
| But I wanted to be at the store. | ||
| The store was Mecca. | ||
| Did you ever see that movie, Some Kind of Hero, with Richard Pryor? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And he plays like a, I think it's about a Vietnam vet or something. | ||
| It's kind of a drama. | ||
| I think it's a drama. | ||
| And he's great. | ||
| He was a great actor. | ||
| He was great in everything. | ||
| He was great in that, what was that movie that they did about his life story? | ||
| Jojo. | ||
| Jojo Dancer. | ||
| Oh, right. | ||
| That was really good. | ||
| Yeah, that was basically a drama. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| That was good. | ||
| He's the GOAT, in my opinion. | ||
| I mean, there's Lenny Bruce, who started all off, and then there's Kinison, who was probably the funniest of all time for two years before he burnt out. | ||
| But then Pryor is the guy. | ||
| When you look at the guy who changed comedy, he made comedy a personal thing. | ||
| He made comedy an honest, personal thing. | ||
| He was the first one, you think? | ||
| He took what Lenny Bruce was doing and he just did it a little bit better. | ||
| Lenny Bruce opened the door, though. | ||
| Lenny Bruce was the guy who got arrested for it. | ||
| Lenny Bruce was the guy who really changed perceptions. | ||
| In the 50s and the 60s, what he was doing was revolutionary. | ||
| There was no one that was doing anything like that. | ||
| Pushing all those boundaries. | ||
| Yeah, everyone else was telling jokes, like, two Jews walking to a bar, they buy it. | ||
| Ba-dum-bum-tsch. | ||
| Well, sure. | ||
| They all shared each other's jokes. | ||
| It was Catskill Comics and Ed Sullivan, and that's what all that was. | ||
| But he was pointing out hypocrisy in society and political things and things about language. | ||
| Yes, language. | ||
| But even he started out as an impressionist. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, he just decided to expand the medium and then he got more and more famous from doing that and then it more became social commentary that was actually funny rather than just what we had thought of as a stand-up comedian before that. | ||
| And then, of course, Carlin took it from there and then I think Pryor did it better than anybody else. | ||
| He really opened the door for so many other comedians. | ||
| And he made it personal. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Like almost confessional and introspective. | ||
| And vulnerable. | ||
| And vulnerable. | ||
| As an actor, he brought that too. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| In everything he did. | ||
| I mean, he was... | ||
| They destroyed Lenny Bruce. | ||
| They just destroyed him. | ||
| You know, the... | ||
| The lawsuits. | ||
| The lawsuits at the end. | ||
| That's what he was actually reading on stage. | ||
| He had big problems with drugs. | ||
| Well, he was a heroin addict. | ||
| But they just destroyed him on... | ||
| I mean, they were arresting him for cursing. | ||
| If you think about that now. | ||
| Have you seen Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, the Amazon series? | ||
| It's really good. | ||
| The guy that plays Lenny Bruce is good. | ||
| He's really good. | ||
| Who is it? | ||
| I don't know the actor's name. | ||
| He's really good. | ||
| But the way they portray him is very close to how he really was. | ||
| He was very loved by people. | ||
| They would come to see him and then the cops would literally drag him off stage. | ||
| What do you think of her stand-up Well, in the beginning, I think it was pretty good. | ||
| It seemed like a funny broad who was kind of drunk, who went on stage, who was hilarious, and got laughs. | ||
| It's just hard to recreate stand-up if you don't do stand-up. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's very hard. | ||
| But that's what I was talking about as a comedic actor. | ||
| There he is. | ||
| Luke Kirby. | ||
| Very good. | ||
| He even looks like him there. | ||
| He was also on The Deuce. | ||
| He played a good role on The Deuce, on HBO. The one thing about Mrs. Maisel, everything is a She's like on all the time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That's the one thing. | ||
| It's like always a funny... | ||
| You never saw the show? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, I haven't. | |
| It's a good show. | ||
| But it's always like a funny quip. | ||
| Everything. | ||
| You ask if she wants coffee, it's a funny joke. | ||
| It's like a comic that's always on, right? | ||
| It's annoying. | ||
| I got to the third season. | ||
| The third season, it seemed like it was a little manufactured. | ||
| Like there's this big scene where she's in front of a USO tour overseas. | ||
| And these guys are laughing. | ||
| And she's just murdering, laughing at everything. | ||
| As a comic, I'm like, this isn't real. | ||
| This isn't real. | ||
| This is like a kung fu scene where a guy's kicking guys through windows. | ||
| You know, it's like there's something about it where I can't relate to this anymore. | ||
| You've taken this into fiction. | ||
| But I think the beginning of it was really good. | ||
| Joe, have you ever just ate it? | ||
| On stage. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah. | |
| I don't mean at the beginning. | ||
| Oh, I hate shit. | ||
| Yeah, of course. | ||
| Well, this is one thing. | ||
| I write a new act every two years. | ||
| So I do a Netflix special or a Comedy Central special. | ||
| I throw all that stuff out and I start all over again. | ||
| And you're going to have some rough sets. | ||
| Yeah, I eat shit. | ||
| And then, you know, maybe you have a heckler, you get mad at the heckler, and you eat shit. | ||
| Do you have go-to heckler, you know, shut up heckler lines? | ||
| I mean, you can do that, but really, it's all in what's happening in the moment. | ||
| They're so different. | ||
| You know, it's like, do you have a go-to spice for your food? | ||
| Well, it really depends on what you're eating. | ||
| What you're doing. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, it's really, there's... | ||
| Bell's worked at... | ||
| Bell also worked at the Riv. | ||
| I know what you're going to say. | ||
| And a lady was heckling him and he says, Lady, the only time you should open your mouth is to switch dicks. | ||
| Do you remember the comic Rick Reynolds? | ||
| No. | ||
| Rick Reynolds was hot stuff. | ||
| He had a one-man show. | ||
| He was the beginning of that. | ||
| Played the improvs like I'm going in the 90s. | ||
| And he had this... | ||
| I forget the name of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Maybe... | |
| I don't know what the name of it is. | ||
| Rick Reynolds, he was a San Francisco guy. | ||
| And he was working... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he had a development deal and I think even a sitcom for a short time. | ||
| And he had an act. | ||
| And the act was kind of like, you know, he... | ||
| He kind of came off like a studious guy, and then he would say, would you sleep with me for a dollar? | ||
| You know, he'd tell a girl, you know, how about for five dollars? | ||
| Then, of course, for a million dollars, would you go home with me? | ||
| And, of course, she says, you're a whore, you're a whore. | ||
| So he does the joke. | ||
| He gets off stage. | ||
| A guy, her boyfriend, comes back and punches him in the back of the head. | ||
| Right at the Riviera. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And then, two nights later, a guy's heckling him. | ||
| He tells the guy, if you don't shut up, I'm going to leave. | ||
| That's what he tells the guy. | ||
| That's how he dealt with the heckling. | ||
| The fucking guy kept heckling and he walked off the stage. | ||
| Yeah, and I was fucking pissed off at him. | ||
| That seems like a very odd approach. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| He said, one more time, and I swear I'm out of here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're basically giving up all your power to the heckler. | |
| Yeah, that's probably why he's not around anymore. | ||
| Yeah, but he was... | ||
| Bad strategy. | ||
| He, in the 90s, he had this one-man show, maybe late 80s. | ||
| Development deal, big management, you know. | ||
| Do you remember that guy who had a show called Defending the Caveman? | ||
| Oh yeah, Rick and Rob Becker. | ||
| Yeah, I never saw it, but a lot of people did see it, and they told me that he did it for a while, and then he sold the show, and someone else was doing it. | ||
| Oh yeah, numerous people. | ||
| He did it in Vegas. | ||
| There was a guy who did it for years. | ||
| I think the guy... | ||
| What the fuck's his name? | ||
| The bald guy who was in The Thing. | ||
| He was on The Shield. | ||
| Oh, Michael... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Chickliss? | |
| Chickliss, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Chickliss did it for a while. | |
| He did it for a while. | ||
| As a one-man show? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It was about women and men. | ||
| It went to Broadway. | ||
| He made a fortune. | ||
| It was basically, though, like stock premises. | ||
| I didn't see it. | ||
| That's what it was explained to me. | ||
| Someone said, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. | ||
| This guy's making millions. | ||
| All over the world. | ||
| And it's basically like, you know, standard premises. | ||
| Men are like this, but women are like that. | ||
| Like real standard shit that if you saw a Rodak doing, you would go, oh, this guy's kind of a hack. | ||
| But then meanwhile, this guy's doing it as a one-man show, and it's a theatrical production, so it's huge. | ||
| I don't know if that's an accurate assessment of it. | ||
| That's what it was explained to me. | ||
| But he also hired... | ||
| So he was kind of a, you know, not fat, but kind of a, you know, chunky kind of guy. | ||
| And... | ||
| The other guys that filled in... | ||
| We're all like that. | ||
| How great is that though? | ||
| Like the same body. | ||
| It wasn't a skinny good-looking guy. | ||
| They were all like kind of the same. | ||
| Imagine if Don Myrera did that. | ||
| Like if you have some guy playing Don Myrera. | ||
| Well, didn't Gallagher do it? | ||
| Gallagher did it with his twin brother. | ||
| And then he sued the brother, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Maybe not his twin, but it's his brother. | ||
| And they look alike. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Who's Gallagher too. | ||
| And then after a while, he got tired of Gallagher too doing his act. | ||
| Like, hey, give me my fucking act back. | ||
| Fuck you. | ||
| And so then they were fighting. | ||
| I never knew that. | ||
| And he was touring and doing... | ||
| Oh yeah, he looked like Gallagher. | ||
| He couldn't really tell. | ||
| He looked like a cloned Gallagher, but something went wrong in the process. | ||
| Like something was slightly off. | ||
| Like if you were married to him and you came home one day and you're like, hey, are you okay? | ||
| What's going on? | ||
| He'd be like, you're not my husband. | ||
| What is happening here? | ||
| Dom Herrera 2. There should be Dom Herrera's all over the country. | ||
| We'll send them out. | ||
| Headline everywhere. | ||
| There's Gallagher 2. Which one's which? | ||
| I don't know which one's which. | ||
| I say on the right. | ||
| I think that's on the right is 2. So the guy on the right, he had to grow his fucking hair the same way and wear the same clothes and do the same thing. | ||
| Was one better than the other? | ||
| I never saw her. | ||
| Have you had Gallagher on the show? | ||
| No, I haven't. | ||
| No. | ||
| I've heard him on Stern before, though. | ||
| He's an interesting guy. | ||
| Very opinionated. | ||
| But I gotta tell you, he took that prop thing to another level. | ||
| Yes, he did. | ||
| Caratop, I don't want to say ruined the genre of prop comics, but he defined it. | ||
| To the point where no one else can be a prop comic anymore. | ||
| When I was starting out in 88, there was prop comics. | ||
| There was all these guys. | ||
| Some guys would have music. | ||
| Some guys would have props. | ||
| Some guys had a puppet. | ||
| They'd go on stage with a puppet. | ||
| It was a normal thing. | ||
| But there's no fucking prop comics anymore. | ||
| Go down to the Comedy Store on a Monday night. | ||
| You don't see a single prop comic. | ||
| They don't exist. | ||
| No more ventriloquists? | ||
| That's rare too. | ||
| I mean, I don't know who, I guess it was, what's his name? | ||
| Jeff Dunham. | ||
| Jeff Dunham is like the premier puppet guy. | ||
| He's a Hall of Famer. | ||
| Yeah, he's a Hall of Famer puppet guy. | ||
| He used to work for me at the Riv. | ||
| Did you ever have Otto and George in? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| He's the best. | ||
| He was a great guy. | ||
| He was a puppet act, ventriloquist. | ||
| He had the dirtiest puppet. | ||
| The puppet would say the most fucked up shit, and then he would go, how can you say that? | ||
| It was horrifying. | ||
| And he worked for me a lot. | ||
| Remember the show you did at the Riv? | ||
| Yeah, the dirty show. | ||
| It was the extreme comedy, XXX. So I had all these filthy guys. | ||
| Matter of fact, I was talking to Nick DiPaolo. | ||
| Nick did it, you know? | ||
| There he is. | ||
| There's Otto and George. | ||
| There's Otto and George. | ||
| It's so crazy. | ||
| It's so funny. | ||
| Someone actually ran on stage at Dangerfields and stabbed the puppet one time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They were so mad. | ||
| And it's so horrifying. | ||
| Look how scary that is. | ||
| Crazy eyebrows. | ||
| The eyebrows would go up when he was hitting his punchlines. | ||
| And it's Otto and George, and you'd think that the puppet's name would be Otto, but that's George. | ||
| Yeah, the puppet is George. | ||
| But Otto, he worked for me a bunch of times, and he had problems, and he would disappear. | ||
| I couldn't find him. | ||
| It's obvious he has problems. | ||
| He was on the west side of town, and he died young. | ||
| But he did let him in. | ||
| You know, he started finally, after so many years, getting some recognition. | ||
| I wish he was around now so we could introduce him through podcasts. | ||
| I think if he was around now, if I could get him on a podcast and show people who he is, much like Joey Diaz, much like a lot of these guys. | ||
| You're not going to understand who they are through a traditional format, like a regular television format. | ||
| You're going to get a shadow of what they really are. | ||
| You've got to see. | ||
| Otto was a wild guy who did these crazy fucking road shows. | ||
| We did those Bob Gonzo gigs together in Jersey, and we did Dangerfields for those... | ||
| We did prom shows. | ||
| Prom shows are the fucking worst thing a comic could ever do. | ||
| Because what they do is they take these 17 and 18 year old kids. | ||
| They're at their prom. | ||
| Yeah, I went to one. | ||
| You went to one? | ||
| They don't change the audience. | ||
| So the audience, they just keep shoving new kids in there and hope the other kids leave. | ||
| So you'll start working. | ||
| You might have a 7 o'clock show and you don't get out of there until like 2, 3 in the morning. | ||
| Sometimes you get out of there, it's just starting to turn daylight. | ||
| And they're just pumping kids in. | ||
| So they would tell you... | ||
| Don't change your act. | ||
| We want them to be bored of your act so that they leave and we get new kids out. | ||
| Who was that? | ||
| That Australian guy? | ||
| Tony? | ||
| What was the big guy? | ||
| It was Scottish. | ||
| A Scottish guy? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fuck. | |
| What was his name? | ||
| Not Tony. | ||
| Goddamn, it wasn't Tony. | ||
| Tony was Rodney's partner. | ||
| He was funnier than most of the comedians, the big Scottish powerlifter guy. | ||
| He would lift weights with, he would take cement buckets, like a bucket, and fill it with cement. | ||
| And he would do a lot of his workouts just lifting these buckets filled with cement. | ||
| One of the strongest fucking guys I've ever seen in my life. | ||
| He was built like a bowling ball with a head on the top of it. | ||
| He was the manager? | ||
| No, he was like a doorman slash maitre d slash bouncer. | ||
| So if anybody did anything wrong, he was the guy that came in. | ||
| I saw him pick a kid up by his neck. | ||
| Literally grab him by his neck and lift him up in the air. | ||
| And the kid's feet were dangling. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Dangerfields, I went there many years ago in the 70s, and I saw David Fry. | ||
| You know David Fry? | ||
| No. | ||
| He used to do Nixon. | ||
| He was 5'3". | ||
| And he would do fucking Nixon. | ||
| The headline sees his palace. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Look him up. | ||
| David Fry. | ||
| And he wind up moving to Vegas. | ||
| And he was Sullivan all the time. | ||
| And he did Nixon. | ||
| He was great. | ||
| Really short. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And... | ||
| He was always lonely, and he was with Randy Credico. | ||
| You know Randy Credico. | ||
| So Randy Credico was an impressionist, the two of them. | ||
| Wait, the guy with Roger Stone? | ||
| Yeah, Randy used to work for me at the Riv. | ||
| He was a comedian? | ||
| Yeah, he was a stand-up impressionist. | ||
| He did Johnny Carson. | ||
| I saw him on Carson. | ||
| There's David Fry. | ||
| He's five for three. | ||
| They go over. | ||
| They're down in Times Square. | ||
| It's four in the morning, 4.30 in the morning. | ||
| There's a hooker on the corner. | ||
| They pull up. | ||
| They said, how much for a blowjob? | ||
| The girl is looking in. | ||
| She's looking in the car. | ||
| How much the fuck you? | ||
| She went, I don't fuck midgets. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Boom! | |
| He was lost for the night. | ||
| He was depressed for two fucking months. | ||
| He was a bad alcoholic. | ||
| And he worked at the Riv when we first opened. | ||
| Right? | ||
| He worked, it was like his big comeback, because he was living in Vegas, he used to come around the club, and he did the first show, wore a tuxedo. | ||
| And between shows he got bombed and Bud Friedman said, go and get him. | ||
| You know, we gave him a chance and he just couldn't even work. | ||
| He was a poor guy. | ||
| And he passed away a few years ago. | ||
| But yeah, he was headline Caesar's Palace, a real comic. | ||
| Very depressed, never married. | ||
| He would say, life is hard, life is hard, life is hard. | ||
| There's a lot of those stereotype comics, and you would hear about them more back in the day than now, that were never happy. | ||
| They would go on stage, they would get laughs in the crowd, then they'd be depressed for the rest of the night. | ||
| Hey, you know, that kind of ba-dump-up comic, I mean, there was a lot more work then, I think. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| There's a lot of work now. | ||
| You had Catskills. | ||
| You had nightclubs in New York, Chicago. | ||
| TV paid more money then. | ||
| You didn't get scale. | ||
| I think if you did a variety show then, you got real money. | ||
| Like Flip Wilson show or Sonny and Cher and there was a Comic Con. | ||
| I think there was... | ||
| Flip Wilson show? | ||
| Remember Flip Wilson? | ||
| Look, I'm old! | ||
| I told you I was old! | ||
| I'm an old man. | ||
| Cliff Wilson, Sonny and Cher. | ||
| I love those shows. | ||
| I remember those shows, yeah. | ||
| You know, all those variety shows in the 70s. | ||
| I mean, that was good stuff. | ||
| What happened to variety shows? | ||
| I don't think people like them anymore. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Short attention spans. | ||
| I guess that's the new American Idol and The Voice and shit. | ||
| Sort of. | ||
| But the variety shows would have legitimate famous acts come on. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Singers. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Singers, comics. | ||
| Then they had the guy with the plates. | ||
| Magicians. | ||
| Yeah, they would do things. | ||
| Puppet, you know, ventriloquists. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Joe Rowe. | ||
| That's what you got to do, Joe. | ||
| Variety Act. | ||
| That's the next thing. | ||
| I can't. | ||
| I do enough. | ||
| This is it. | ||
| It can't be a short attention span, because if that was the case, then podcasts wouldn't work, because podcasts require the most attention span. | ||
| Now, that's the one thing without podcasts, too. | ||
| A lot of younger people are discovering The Sopranos, and that was part of the reason we wanted to do one. | ||
| There's kids that are in their late teens, early 20s, you know, like that age, and they're the podcasters. | ||
| Yeah, and they were too young when the show was on originally, but that's pretty cool, because a lot of shows don't get that kind of... | ||
| Resurgence and new generation discovering it. | ||
| Well, it's the beautiful thing about our era that you can stream shows and binge them. | ||
| You can do that. | ||
| Back in our day, if you wanted to watch old episodes of fucking Starsky and Hutch, good luck. | ||
| Sure, absolutely. | ||
| Where are you going to find them? | ||
| Where are you going to find Dragnet? | ||
| You had to wait for it to be on television. | ||
| If you wanted to watch an older show, you had to wait for it, or you'd find it somewhere. | ||
| Now, someone tells you about The Sopranos. | ||
| Is it on Netflix? | ||
| No, it's on HBO Max, HBO to Go. | ||
| HBO and Hulu. | ||
| And probably Apple TV as well. | ||
| Yeah, you can probably buy it on Apple TV. Amazon. | ||
| Amazon. | ||
| But you just go right to that, boom, you get started. | ||
| I mean, it instantly starts playing. | ||
| I mean, it's amazing if you're a kid and you want to discover great old shows or great old films. | ||
| I mean, you have instant access to them. | ||
| You don't have to go anywhere. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Back then, only 11 million people had HBO. Yeah. | ||
| Which is nothing. | ||
| There's probably more people now watching the show. | ||
| People get together on Sunday nights, right? | ||
| They have their parties and all that. | ||
| They would cook and have parties and dress up like the characters. | ||
| It was harder to watch things. | ||
| You had to go out and get a physical copy of it. | ||
| I remember I moved into this house in 2002 and it had a theater. | ||
| I was like, oh my god, I made it. | ||
| I got a fucking theater in my house. | ||
| This is the shit. | ||
| And I watched Apocalypse Now, the newly remastered version of Apocalypse Now. | ||
| The one with the added scenes that weren't in the French plantation. | ||
| That was really cool. | ||
| I was just sitting back watching this thing going, this is amazing. | ||
| And then you find out the history of the film. | ||
| And then you find out that, like, literally it took like seven years to make that film. | ||
| And Lawrence Fishburne's a teenager when he's in it. | ||
| You know, it's just, fuck what a movie that is. | ||
| Yeah, that's a good one. | ||
| Look at his career. | ||
| Actually, Harvey Keitel was originally the Martin Sheen role Willard and actually shot for a while. | ||
| He got fired? | ||
| I think they felt he brought too much... | ||
| Like, Martin Sheen was more of a blank slate, like an everyman kind of. | ||
| Harvey had a very strong personality, like New York kind of tough guy and a lot more of quirks to him. | ||
| And he wanted more of like... | ||
| Martin Sheen was more of like a... | ||
| Reacting to all the other craziness around him, like Hopper and Frederick Forrest, Fishburne and Brando. | ||
| And he was kind of the center that just held it. | ||
| And Harvey was more like a character. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| That's at least what I heard. | ||
| But I think Harvey shot for at least a month, maybe more. | ||
| Wow. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| That makes sense, though, because Harvey's such a powerful force. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| When I think of Harvey, can I tell I think of Bad Lieutenant? | ||
| Yeah, that's a good one. | ||
| That fucking movie. | ||
| That's a brilliant movie. | ||
| Holy shit. | ||
| He did a series with him. | ||
| What did you do with him? | ||
| I did the only series he ever did called Life on Mars. | ||
| We did one season for ABC in 2009 and Harvey played the lieutenant in that and it was his first TV show. | ||
| It was good to work with? | ||
| Yeah, I worked with him before. | ||
| I worked with him on Clockers. | ||
| I had a couple of scenes with him in that, and then we did... | ||
| I love Harvey. | ||
| Harvey's a very hard worker, takes his work really, really seriously, and really good. | ||
| I mean, Bad Lieutenant, he's incredible. | ||
| Brilliant. | ||
| I think that might be his best work ever. | ||
| And Dangerous Game. | ||
| Did you ever see that? | ||
| It's the same director, Abel Ferrara. | ||
| It's with Madonna and James Russo. | ||
| Harvey basically plays a version of Abel Ferrara, and kind of a version of himself, and he plays a film director. | ||
| He's really good. | ||
| I don't know if I saw that. | ||
| I'd have to go look at that again. | ||
| That's a good one. | ||
| What did you think of the stand-up show on Showtime? | ||
| Which one? | ||
| What was that called? | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| It was the Jim Carrey. | ||
| Oh, I'm Dying Up Here? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You didn't like it? | ||
| No, I thought it was flat. | ||
| Yeah, I kind of liked it. | ||
| I liked it because a lot of my good friends were in it. | ||
| Yeah, I'm sure. | ||
| I liked that. | ||
| I liked it because it was basically based on the store. | ||
| Was he a stand-up comedian, Jim Carrey? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| He was before he started doing... | ||
| But Mitzi didn't act like that, right? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I didn't even get into it. | ||
| Oh, you didn't watch the show? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Okay. | ||
| How did they have her act? | ||
| You know, like impossible. | ||
| She was crazy. | ||
| Yeah, she was impossible. | ||
| You know, I met her a few times. | ||
| She was nice to me because she came out with Paulie. | ||
| Paulie worked at the hotel. | ||
| So I met a couple of times. | ||
| She was always very nice. | ||
| That's her on the wall. | ||
| Oh, is it? | ||
| When she was younger? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| She was always very, very nice to me. | ||
| Was she crazy? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, that's why she let the store become what it is. | ||
| She basically wanted the lunatics to run the asylum. | ||
| She wanted them to fight against each other. | ||
| She also know, like, say if you and Michael had a problem with each other, she'd put you on back-to-back. | ||
| She'd have Michael bring you up. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah, if you were dating, if a comic was dating another comic, she'd have them back-to-back. | ||
| If they broke up, back-to-back. | ||
| And it was all, this was all... | ||
| Orchestrated. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, she had a theory about comedy. | ||
| She wanted people to be put into difficult situations. | ||
| That's why I told you when I was 27 and, you know, just sort of getting my feet under me, she had me going after Richard Pryor every fucking night and Martin Lawrence. | ||
| If she liked you, she'd throw you to the wolves. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And she would laugh about it, too. | ||
| Like, later on in life, you know, I had a conversation with her and she was laughing. | ||
| She was like, I always knew where to point you. | ||
| Ha ha. | ||
| She thought it was funny. | ||
| But it was also how she made you a good comic. | ||
| She forced you to adapt to the moment. | ||
| If you just go on, if you have an easy opening act who does get some laughs, but doesn't kill too hard, and you go on this cushy spot in the middle, everything's soft and easy, you don't get challenged. | ||
| You don't grow. | ||
| And she wanted you to grow. | ||
| She wanted you to face hardship. | ||
| She wanted you to fucking sink or swim, bitch. | ||
| This is the Comedy Store, and that's how she treated it. | ||
| You know, but the store, which was the Mecca, of course, and then they ended tail off a little bit, and then when you and Joey Diaz and all you guys started coming back, now it's... | ||
| The spot. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or, you know, before the pandemic. | ||
| Anyway, that's the spot in the whole United States, right? | ||
| When I came back in 2014, we had already been talking about it for so long on the podcast. | ||
| It had kind of had a little bit of a ramp up before then. | ||
| But then when I came back and we were basically telling everybody, hey, I'm at the store. | ||
| We're there. | ||
| We're there, you know, five nights a week. | ||
| It just became mobbed again. | ||
| I mean, it was mobbed every fucking night. | ||
| It was sold out hundreds of days in a row, three shows, one in the original room, big show in the main room, belly room, just packed every night. | ||
| You couldn't get in there. | ||
| They were at the Dunes. | ||
| They were before the improv. | ||
| And there was like... | ||
| Five headliners, you know, they would have like Dom and, you know, Kinison, Mitchell Walters, you know, and they were at the Dunes Hotel in the big room. | ||
| And Mitzi four-walled that. | ||
| So she made all the money. | ||
| And she was very smart, obviously a smart businesswoman. | ||
| She didn't go for the, you know, guaranteed money. | ||
| She took a shot. | ||
| And for years, that was the spot to be. | ||
| When did that place go under? | ||
| That was before my time. | ||
| And then... | ||
| I want to say in the 90s, early 90s, they knocked the dunes down. | ||
| But I think it started in 84. The improv opened in 86. And they would have five headliners, Johnny Dark, you know, all the headliners from the comedy store. | ||
| Jimmy Walker, you know. | ||
| Well, Vegas is making a comeback when it comes to comedy. | ||
| Like, there's clubs. | ||
| There's a lot of clubs, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, there's clubs. | ||
| Like, Jimmy Kimmel's got a club there now. | ||
| There's a comedy cellar. | ||
| Laugh Factory. | ||
| Laugh Factory. | ||
| Brad Garrett has a thing. | ||
| Yeah, the Brad Garrett place is great. | ||
| It's like, it's a good place for, not just for people that are doing big places, but for comic comics. | ||
| Guys, road guys are just, you know. | ||
| Hey, when you did Dice's show, You saw Rich Little. | ||
| Yeah, we all went. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's playing in the Laugh Factory at the Tropicana, right? | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, Dice does residencies there. | ||
| He'll be there for months at a time. | ||
| At the Laugh Factory. | ||
| I was just there in Vegas for the UFC two weeks ago. | ||
| And they're doing the UFC without a crowd. | ||
| It's very strange. | ||
| We're at the Apex Center, which is an arena that the UFC built. | ||
| Where is it? | ||
| It's next to the UFC Performance Institute. | ||
| It's off the strip. | ||
| And they built this very small arena. | ||
| So they do a series of other shows besides just the big UFC pay-per-views. | ||
| They do this thing called the Dana White Tuesday Night Contender Series where they have up-and-coming fighters compete. | ||
| And then they do it in a small place with a very small crowd, like 1,000, 1,200 people. | ||
| But now there's no one, no crowd, because it's the only way you can do the thing. | ||
| So as I'm driving to the Apex Center, I'm passing the Tropicana, and they've got dice up on the billboard for February. | ||
| So it's like long past shows, March, shit like that. | ||
| They don't even take it down. | ||
| Because everything's been shut down. | ||
| All the casinos have been shut down. | ||
| Now they're opening. | ||
| Did you have a hotel to stay in? | ||
| No, I didn't even. | ||
| I flew in the day of the fights. | ||
| I flew out that night. | ||
| Yesterday I watched a soccer game, the German league, and they had no fans, but they had a recording of the fans. | ||
| Oh, that's so weird. | ||
| And you know, they sing, the fans in Europe sing chants to the team. | ||
| They had that going on, but there's nobody in the audience. | ||
| Are they going to do that for UFC? No, no, it's just silence. | ||
| No recording of cheers and all that. | ||
| Yeah, the brilliant part about it being silent is that you can hear the people breathing, you can hear them talking shit to each other, like, hey pussy, hey pussy, how you feeling? | ||
| Like, they talk shit to each other when they're beating each other up. | ||
| You can hear the body blows, you can hear the wheezing when they're getting hurt, you can hear them heavy breathing when they're tired. | ||
| Like, there's so much more depth to it when you don't have an audience. | ||
| It's undeniable that the audience plays a big factor in the energy, but there's something to just being there. | ||
| Like I was there for Tony Ferguson and Justin Gaethje in Florida. | ||
| We did that in Jacksonville, and it was the same thing, no audience. | ||
| But that was even weirder because it was a 15,000-seat arena. | ||
| But there was no crowd. | ||
| It was just these guys duking it out in this cavernous arena, and the octagon's set up in the center of the arena, and all you hear is the corner men giving advice, and then you hear them beating the shit out of each other. | ||
| Do you have to adjust anything? | ||
| You do different, or you just do your thing? | ||
| I didn't... | ||
| No. | ||
| No, I didn't adjust. | ||
| The only difference is the one in Vegas, they wouldn't let me interview the fighters in the ring after the fight. | ||
| So I couldn't go into the octagon after the fight. | ||
| I had to do it remotely. | ||
| So I had a headset on and I'm looking at them through a screen. | ||
| It was real weird. | ||
| And do you think UFC, that's why boxing's not popular anymore? | ||
| Boxing's pretty popular. | ||
| Not as it once was. | ||
| I think MMA is much more exciting. | ||
| But I think the real big boxing fights are still very exciting. | ||
| Like Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder, that kind of fight. | ||
| Those are still very exciting. | ||
| Anytime Canelo Alvarez fights, those are still very exciting fights. | ||
| It's just, it's not as multi-dimensional as MMA. When you watch a UFC fight and you're seeing head kicks and takedowns and guys getting strangled. | ||
| It's fucking too rough for me, man. | ||
| Fucking tough. | ||
| That's tough. | ||
| Those are legit tough guys. | ||
| Even before MMA got popular, the heavyweight division, which used to be so, for years, so exciting. | ||
| Well, it comes in waves. | ||
| Deontay Wilder was just starting to become the resurgence of the heavyweight division because he was smashing and knocking everybody out. | ||
| And then they had that epic fight with him and Tyson Fury, and they knocked Tyson Fury down twice and almost knocked him out in the 12th round. | ||
| But then Tyson came back in that round, and then the fight was declared a draw. | ||
| That was a good one. | ||
| It was a great fight. | ||
| And then Tyson Fury came back and beat the fuck out of him in the rematch. | ||
| And when that happened, everyone was like, Jesus Christ. | ||
| Now American heavyweights, like that was a big American heavyweight loss, right? | ||
| And in America, there's something about, we don't give a fuck about heavyweights... | ||
| From other countries. | ||
| Like when Vladimir Klitschko, like you would think like the whole thing was like a white guy as a heavyweight champion would be the craziest shit ever. | ||
| Vladimir Klitschko was a heavyweight champion for years. | ||
| Nobody gave a fuck. | ||
| That's what I'm saying. | ||
| Because he was Russian. | ||
| You know, I used to go to a lot of fights when I lived in Vegas in the 80s. | ||
| I was at the Hearns Hagler, a couple of them. | ||
| I was at Mancini when he killed Dooku Kim. | ||
| Oh, you were I was at that fight. | ||
| That was the outside fight, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I was at the Cooney Homes. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| $100 seat. | ||
| Guy tipped me. | ||
| I was a doorman at Paul Anker's club, a bouncer. | ||
| Guy gave me a $100 ticket. | ||
| I was all the way to tippy-top at Caesars in the parking lot. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| That was the arena. | ||
| I was at Aguayo Pryor. | ||
| Alexis Arguello. | ||
| Yeah, Alexis Arguello. | ||
| Alexis Arguello prior. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow, that's a classic. | |
| I was at Tyson's first fight when he came out of jail. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| And he beat the shit out of the Irish kid. | ||
| Yeah, I was at a whole bunch of them. | ||
| A bunch. | ||
| And then they would have Saturday afternoons at the showboat on the outside of town. | ||
| I would go to a lot of those. | ||
| Those were great fights. | ||
| They had Wednesday night fights at... | ||
| It was a silver slipper with the mirages. | ||
| I used to go back then. | ||
| I haven't been to a fight in years. | ||
| They used to have a lot of fights at the Orleans too, right? | ||
| Orleans? | ||
| That was later on. | ||
| Yeah, later on. | ||
| Later on. | ||
| But the silver slipper was just a shithole local place. | ||
| There's a lot of those in Vegas. | ||
| Yeah, a local place and they would have these great fighters. | ||
| They would come in from LA and Top Rank was a big deal then and Aram's been around forever. | ||
| Ali came to the set one day in Sopranos. | ||
| He was a fan of the show. | ||
| His manager contacted my manager and I met him in front of the studio and brought him Onto the set and nobody knew he was coming and Gandolfini was like in bed. | ||
| He was doing that when he was in the coma. | ||
| It was all that stuff. | ||
| He was like taking a nap between takes and I brought Ali and the whole crew just like froze and then I brought him up to the bed and I tapped Jim. | ||
| Jim turned around looked up he went Holy shit. | ||
| And he hung out the whole day, man. | ||
| Took pictures. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Every crew. | ||
| People gave him a standing ovation. | ||
| People were crying. | ||
| It was crazy. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| He was such a star and such an iconic figure that my parents, who were hippies, They didn't give a fuck about fighting, but when he fought Spinks in the rematch, they made us watch it. | ||
| We're living in San Francisco, and we're like, you have to watch this. | ||
| Muhammad Ali is fighting Leon Spinks. | ||
| He's gonna get his title back. | ||
| It was a big deal, because he wasn't just a boxer. | ||
| It's hard for people to realize that now, in retrospect, but when I was a kid, During the Vietnam War, he was also a symbol of the resistance to this unjust war that we didn't want to be a part of. | ||
| He's a guy who lost three years of his career because he wouldn't fight in the war. | ||
| And so they stripped him of his title in his prime. | ||
| Like, he beat Cleveland Big Cat Williams, probably the finest performance of his young career. | ||
| And then for three years, he doesn't do shit until he comes back. | ||
| And, you know, it was a... | ||
| He transcended sports. | ||
| Oh, absolutely. | ||
| All over the world. | ||
| All over the world. | ||
| And he got his due, I think. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| He's recognized as that guy. | ||
| It finally happened. | ||
| It took a while. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| Oh, there you go. | ||
| That must have been on the set. | ||
| Yeah, there's the hospital bed behind it. | ||
| Wow, that's crazy. | ||
| You can't make up some bullshit here. | ||
| They get right on you. | ||
| That's good. | ||
| Jamie gets right on your ass and fucking come up with the goods. | ||
| He's also a cautionary tale for boxers. | ||
| If you think that getting hit in the head has no consequences. | ||
| Towards the end of his life, it was very hard to watch. | ||
| Yeah, he wasn't talking that much, but he was very present. | ||
| He was with it. | ||
| He just wasn't... | ||
| Neurologically, he wasn't capable of really speaking anymore. | ||
| Well, I think Leon Spinks also, right? | ||
| Yeah, everyone. | ||
| Joe Frazier, towards the end of his career, was horrible to watch him and listen to him. | ||
| The only one who's avoided that is George Foreman. | ||
| To this day, George Foreman speaks great. | ||
| He sounds normal, which is crazy. | ||
| It's hard to imagine. | ||
| What about Holyfield? | ||
| Holyfield's fighting again. | ||
| Do you know that? | ||
| No way. | ||
| Yes, Holyfield's been training, and he actually looks great. | ||
| You know, with hormone replacement therapy, they just juice him up with testosterone and growth hormone and fucking get him on a good diet, and next thing you know, he's hitting the bag and looking great, and I think they're trying to set up a Tyson-Holyfield rematch. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| How old is Holyfield? | ||
| Holyfield's older than Tyson. | ||
| I think Tyson's 53, and I think Holyfield's 56. That would be something. | ||
| They'll all get a huge payday, because I think Holyfield was broke too, right? | ||
| They're both broke. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I don't know if Tyson's broke anymore. | ||
| Has Tyson been on the show? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And Holyfield. | ||
| Both guys have been on the show. | ||
| Oh, they both have been on the show. | ||
| Tyson's got that Tyson Ranch. | ||
| He's basically a weed salesman now. | ||
| He's got this crazy ranch that he's a part of, Tyson Ranch. | ||
| They grow spectacular weed. | ||
| That box over in the corner, that gold box, that's a Tyson weed ranch box that he gifted me. | ||
| And he's got this whole entertainment venue there. | ||
| They're gonna do shows there. | ||
| I just think something happened and he just decided... | ||
| He even said on the podcast, I don't even want to work out. | ||
| He was like, because I don't want to reignite my ego. | ||
| And then something fucking lit a fire under him. | ||
| And the next thing you know, there's these videos that got resurfaced of him hitting the pads. | ||
| And looks fucking... | ||
| Have you seen it? | ||
| I did see it. | ||
| I would not fuck her. | ||
| It's amazing. | ||
| And I tell you what, now that would be a huge... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Huge! | |
| All over the world, that would be... | ||
| Take my money. | ||
| Take my money. | ||
| That would be something. | ||
| They'd probably do it in Saudi Arabia or something like that. | ||
| I hope they do it. | ||
| I hope they do it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why not? | |
| There's interest in that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh yeah, for sure. | ||
| Where's Tyson's Ranch at? | ||
| It's in California, like, towards the Palm Desert area. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because he lived in Vegas for a lot of years. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| He used to play basketball. | ||
| There was a place... | ||
| He's the worst basketball player I've ever seen. | ||
| I'm not kidding. | ||
| Terrible. | ||
| Just terrible. | ||
| Well, you've never seen me play. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Maybe you. | ||
| And he used to play. | ||
| There was a place called the Sporting House behind the Stardust. | ||
| And, like, everyone played there. | ||
| Every celebrity. | ||
| That was... | ||
| It was like a, you know... | ||
| pool and you know racquetball all that shit and he would come and play. | ||
| I would never fucking dare say a word to him but he used to try to play a lot of guys. | ||
| You played against him? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I played I played in college and you know all the guys from UNOV would play it was like a hundred pounds ago I could play. | ||
| Tyson was just that's not his thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| I just found it really amazing that he decided at 53 he just wanted to fight again. | ||
| And he said he's gonna do some exhibitions, and that was the thought process behind it, some five-round exhibitions or something like that, but it seems like he really wants to fight for it. | ||
| I think as the process has gone on, he's gotten better and better shape, and now he's shredded. | ||
| Look, look, geez. | ||
| And he's got a podcast, right? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| He's a really interesting guy. | ||
| And he did a one-man show? | ||
| Yep, yeah. | ||
| He did his one-man show for a while. | ||
| With Spike Lee direct. | ||
| This guy who's holding the pads for him is Rafael Cordero. | ||
| Rafael Cordero is the lead trainer at Kings MMA. He's a very famous MMA trainer, like one of the best striking trainers in the sport. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So he's working with a great guy, but it's interesting that he chose to work with an MMA guy, too. | ||
| That's really interesting. | ||
| Cordero comes from this place in Curitiba, Brazil, called Shoot the Box. | ||
| It's a very famous MMA camp, famous for the most ferocious fighters in Brazil. | ||
| And he's been training with Tyson. | ||
| How long did Foreman fight for? | ||
| Like, till he was 50? | ||
| Well, he came back at 36, and everybody thought it was a joke. | ||
| He came back 300 and something pounds, fat as fuck, And just looked like, everybody's like, ah, ha, ha, what is he doing? | ||
| Why is he doing this? | ||
| And then slowly, as the fights went on, he never got ripped, but he got smaller and smaller. | ||
| And then when he flatlined Jerry Cooney, everybody was like, holy fuck! | ||
| Like, he's real! | ||
| Like, this is real! | ||
| And then when he knocked out Michael Moore, he became the oldest ever heavyweight champion. | ||
| And I believe he was 45 when he knocked out Moore. | ||
| And then he's... | ||
| Had his grills and he made a lot of money. | ||
| He made a fucking killing on those grills. | ||
| Those George Foreman grills. | ||
| Did you have one? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I had one. | |
| Great for grilled chicken. | ||
| Great. | ||
| Cooks quick. | ||
| You didn't have one? | ||
| They're great. | ||
| It's actually a pretty goddamn good idea. | ||
| That's very funny. | ||
| I mean, it's not the best way. | ||
| You know, if you want to cook the most delicious food, it's not the best way to cook. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Now, do you cook? | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| What'd you win? | ||
| Top chef? | ||
| Chopped. | ||
| The Liberty Tournament, yeah. | ||
| So you're a chef-chef? | ||
| No. | ||
| You just like cooking? | ||
| I'm a home chef, but I'm good at taking what's there and making something out of it, like random stuff. | ||
| What are you into? | ||
| Like, what do you like to cook? | ||
| I like Italian food. | ||
| I like, you know, I mean, out here, you know, you go to the farmer's market, there's all great stuff that's in season all the time, and I don't know. | ||
| Soup. | ||
| I'm really good at soups. | ||
| Really? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, whatever. | ||
| I mean, I did it because my wife doesn't cook. | ||
| She's a designer. | ||
| She's good at building things. | ||
| So if I wanted to eat good, I had to learn how to cook. | ||
| So you learned out of necessity and then really got into it? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I mean, I got into it because I liked eating good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I did this. | ||
| I got offered to be on this show. | ||
| I didn't even know the show. | ||
| My kids were like, no, you'd go and do this. | ||
| You'll win if you do this show because you're good at cooking with random ingredients. | ||
| And it was 16 people. | ||
| One day it was actors, four actors, four comedians, four athletes, and four musicians. | ||
| Then the winner from each day does the last day. | ||
| And how do they judge? | ||
| Based on taste, presentation? | ||
| Yeah, three professionals judge. | ||
| Taste, presentation, creativity. | ||
| What did you cook? | ||
| Well, I did, yeah, I used ice cream. | ||
| I made a dessert. | ||
| You have to make this three rounds every day, right? | ||
| So there's an appetizer round, a main course, and then a dessert. | ||
| But for the desserts I made ice cream and I put like booze in the ice cream and that got over really good. | ||
| Like bourbon, bourbon ice cream, vanilla bourbon, tequila ice cream or something like that. | ||
| But they give you weird shit like in one, you open this box and these ingredients you have to use. | ||
| Then you have a pantry with all the other like normal staples of all kinds of other vegetables. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Like what would be in the box? | |
| Fake blood, like candy blood, or like an unpopped, dried corn on the cob, unpopped. | ||
| It's like popcorn, but not off the cob. | ||
| Squid. | ||
| That's kind of more of a normal thing. | ||
| So you have to have pretty well-rounded skills. | ||
| Yeah, and then it's timed, but then the thing I didn't think about that's the hardest thing of it is that there's cameras in your face the whole time, which is really hard. | ||
| And then if they follow you around because you've got to go move around the kitchen, yeah, you're trying to cook really fast and do something and someone's right here with a camera and that kind of thing. | ||
| What the fuck do you do with unpopped corn? | ||
| Well, I knew what to do with it, which was good. | ||
| You put it in a paper bag and then put it in the microwave. | ||
| And then you got popcorn and you could do stuff with it. | ||
| But I had bought it at the farmer's market like the week before just by chance. | ||
| So I knew what to do with it. | ||
| Yeah, I would have been fucked. | ||
| You cook for your family? | ||
| You win $50,000 for charity. | ||
| That was the thing. | ||
| But I wound up winning the last two people were me and Brandy Chastain. | ||
| You know, she was on the U.S. women's soccer team. | ||
| Not the recent one, but back then she took off her... | ||
| Shirt and was wearing the sports bra. | ||
| That was the famous photo or something. | ||
| Her and I were the two finalists. | ||
| Did she do that after the show? | ||
| That's her move. | ||
| She lost. | ||
| She does that with everything. | ||
| Maybe if she won, she may. | ||
| Come in second! | ||
| No, you don't do that when you come in second. | ||
| Yeah, you gotta do that for first place. | ||
| I did it! | ||
| You should have pulled your balls out! | ||
| So when you're doing this, you get all these ingredients. | ||
| What is your thought process? | ||
| You get the squid and the popcorn. | ||
| How much time are you getting, by the way? | ||
| I think for the appetizer, you have 15 minutes. | ||
| 15 minutes. | ||
| So you open up the box, you've got 15 minutes to make something. | ||
| So you're looking at the squid, you're looking at the popcorn, you're like, fuck. | ||
| Yeah, and you have to make... | ||
| And then there's all different machines, too. | ||
| There's like a food processor, there's an ice cream machine, there's like a sous vide machine, which is you put stuff in the plastic, seal it, and then put it into like really hot water and cook it, that kind of shit, if you want to get adventurous. | ||
| Yeah, wow. | ||
| You better try one. | ||
| Try one of these shows. | ||
| No, no. | ||
| Not for you? | ||
| No, not interested. | ||
| What do you make usually? | ||
| I cook a lot of meat. | ||
| You know, I hunt, so I eat a lot of elk meat, because if I shoot an elk, I get 400 pounds of meat. | ||
| What does an elk taste like? | ||
| Like steak? | ||
| No. | ||
| No, it's more like venison, like a deer meat, but more delicious. | ||
| Is it the deer family? | ||
| Yes, it is the deer family. | ||
| It's just a large deer, essentially a large mountain deer. | ||
| It used to be a plains animal, but then when people started coming around and developing, they started moving into the mountains. | ||
| So now they're more of a mountain animal, but their real habitat is like grazing in plains, but it's an enormous animal, you know? | ||
| I eat a lot of that. | ||
| You get one deer, how long does it last you? | ||
| A year. | ||
| Yeah, one elk. | ||
| But I give a lot of it away too. | ||
| I have a bunch of commercial freezers in the back. | ||
| That's an elk on the wall that I shot. | ||
| That was big. | ||
| Yeah, it's a big animal. | ||
| I mean, that's probably a 900 pound animal, that one. | ||
| That's a really big one. | ||
| Some of them, you know, a good-sized Utah mountain elk, 800 pounds. | ||
| So you quarter it up, you take the quarters out. | ||
| And the family likes it, too? | ||
| Yeah, they love it. | ||
| I got good at it. | ||
| I know how to cook. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah? | |
| Yeah. | ||
| That's a specific style of cooking, too, because you've got to make sure you don't overcook it because it's very lean. | ||
| It's not like a fatty piece of meat where, you know, you could... | ||
| I kind of cook it longer. | ||
| You cook it at a low heat and you get it to a very specific internal temperature. | ||
| Usually I like it like 125 degrees. | ||
| Then I sear it on the outside in a very hot cast iron pan. | ||
| You cook? | ||
| I don't cook much, no. | ||
| No? | ||
| No. | ||
| And I don't eat anything, you know, listen, I eat steak. | ||
| Not much or sometimes? | ||
| I could do something. | ||
| I could make breakfast. | ||
| Like what? | ||
| What's your go-to? | ||
| I could make fucking eggs. | ||
| I could do something here if I got it. | ||
| Did you ever work as a cook? | ||
| Like a short order cook? | ||
| You were a clam shucker. | ||
| I worked at Umberto's Clam House when I was in high school. | ||
| I used to be able to open clams. | ||
| You know when you would order? | ||
| I used to be incredible at them. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| Umberto's Clam House was where they killed Joe Gallo. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| But they had a second one in Brooklyn where I grew up. | ||
| No, but Gallo was killed on Mulberry Street. | ||
| Mulberry Street. | ||
| There was one on Mulberry Street, Humberto's Clan House. | ||
| It became famous after that. | ||
| And then there was one in Brooklyn, and I was like 15, and we used to hang around on the corner, and they were building it. | ||
| And there was like a guy, you know, we were all hanging around, getting into fucking trouble, a bunch of kids, and he pulled out a big wad of money one day. | ||
| I mean, like fucking hundreds, and he said, come here. | ||
| Come on, get the fuck out of here. | ||
| Take them to the movies. | ||
| Back then, a movie was probably a dollar, you know? | ||
| And I said, no, no, no, I want a job. | ||
| I don't want your money. | ||
| And I gave him the money. | ||
| He was Matty the Horse, which was a big wise guy's brother, Joe. | ||
| And he kind of became like a mentor. | ||
| You know, he was like a really good guy, gave me a job. | ||
| I learned how to open clams, bake clams, clams for the linguine and clams, raw clams on the half shell. | ||
| You know, squeeze the lemon, the thing. | ||
| Did being around a lot of those guys when you were younger, did that help you when you were in The Sopranos? | ||
| Did it help you, like, sort of, because you knew people like them? | ||
| Yeah, I grew up in that neighborhood. | ||
| Like, where I grew up in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, at the time, in the 70s, was all... | ||
| A big mob, enclave. | ||
| Big. | ||
| They were everywhere. | ||
| And you didn't even know who they were. | ||
| You know, like Joey's uncle. | ||
| And this is a guy that I went to Little League with. | ||
| Winded up doing 25 years for murder. | ||
| And they were just in the neighborhood. | ||
| They were just, you know. | ||
| So yeah, I knew that world. | ||
| I wasn't in that world. | ||
| I went to college. | ||
| But I knew that world. | ||
| I know people. | ||
| I have friends. | ||
| You know, it was just that kind of a place, you know, where you just knew them. | ||
| And somebody was just telling me two days ago, the guy owned a store, like an Italian deli, ravioli store, and I didn't know that he was a hitman. | ||
| And he sent me an article. | ||
| And he murdered two fucking guys in Coney Island, yeah. | ||
| This guy named Pete. | ||
| And I had no idea about that. | ||
| And I said, really? | ||
| He lived up the block for me. | ||
| I didn't know that. | ||
| Because, you know, when you're a kid, you know, there was like, you know, he was coaching the baseball team. | ||
| Then you found out later. | ||
| I said, I didn't know the guy was a wise guy, like a real guy. | ||
| And they were everywhere. | ||
| They sold fireworks. | ||
| You know, it was that whole thing. | ||
| It was all Italian-American, you know, and it's changed now. | ||
| You know, it's not a little bit of that, but not as much as it used to be. | ||
| Well, when John Gotti was in his heyday, it was a very strange time for Italian-Americans in New York because that whole area, like when he would have those block parties and, you know, people, there was part of the people that would love him. | ||
| I love that. | ||
| To this day. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| To this day, absolutely. | ||
| You know, I was gone. | ||
| You know, I left for Vegas in 79, 80. So I was gone through all them 80s. | ||
| You know, I was in Vegas with those wise guys. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I knew some of them. | ||
| We talked about it last time I was here. | ||
| The Pesci character, Tony Spolaccio, who was... | ||
| Always very nice to me. | ||
| I mean, he was, give me a 20 every time I saw him. | ||
| He's alright in my book. | ||
| But it's interesting, like, the Gotti character, him as a person was very strange. | ||
| Do you know his grandson is a badass MMA fighter? | ||
| Oh, no, I didn't know. | ||
| His grandson, John Gotti III, I think it is, is a legit MMA fighter. | ||
| He's really fucking good. | ||
| He's shredded. | ||
| The kid looks like a fucking killer. | ||
| I mean, he looks like an MMA fighter, covered in tattoos. | ||
| I think he's undefeated, and I think he's got the majority of his fights, if not all of them, are by knockout. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| It's kind of crazy. | ||
| Listen, people love him. | ||
| I never met John Gotti. | ||
| He did a lot of good for a lot of people. | ||
| Listen, you could only judge someone by how they treat you. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Because people go, well, how could you, you know, blah, blah, blah. | ||
| Hey, he was good to a lot of people. | ||
| He was known to be a good fighter, too, John. | ||
| John was? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's how he kind of came up. | ||
| He was very good with his hands. | ||
| He was, you know, toe-to-toe and was pretty nifty as a fighter. | ||
| He was very public, though. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That was the thing that the old guard didn't like. | ||
| But he was flashy when he became the boss. | ||
| He was like this guy that made a big show of who he was versus a lot of these guys like Vincent de Chin would act crazy and walk around a bathrobe. | ||
| Well, God, he was like Al Capone. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| At least he enjoyed himself. | ||
| These other guys, some of these other guys. | ||
| He enjoyed himself. | ||
| He was out to restaurants. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good look. | |
| He had movie star looks. | ||
| At least he enjoyed himself. | ||
| He had a nice family. | ||
| Some of these guys are holed up. | ||
| They have millions of dollars and they live in like some shit one bedroom tenement. | ||
| Like Uncle Junior. | ||
| Like Uncle Junior. | ||
| He lives like this shitty life. | ||
| He's got hundreds of thousands here and there. | ||
| It's like, why are you living like that? | ||
| You might as well go out and enjoy it, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they still get caught. | ||
| Even the guys who live like shit, they still get caught. | ||
| Those old timers, you know, those old timers used to just... | ||
| I don't know what they did with the money. | ||
| Well, they were trying to avoid prosecution. | ||
| Yeah, but... | ||
| Didn't work out. | ||
| Almost every mobster, unfortunately, winds up dead or in jail. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Michael, did you grow up around that? | ||
| A little bit, yeah. | ||
| A little bit, but more... | ||
| I got out of that area when I was in my teens, really, and was in the city, you know, in the village, and around actors and musicians and stuff like that. | ||
| Was that something that it always called to you, being an actor? | ||
| No, not really. | ||
| I was going to go into be a doctor or something like that, you know? | ||
| Really? | ||
| I was always really good in school and... | ||
| But my father was a bus driver in the Bronx, and he started doing community theater when I was in high school. | ||
| He was like 40. Just one day starts acting in plays, which, looking back, knowing what it takes, it's very courageous, you know, somebody to do that. | ||
| And so I always saw cool movies and... | ||
| Even saw some theater in New York because my parents took me. | ||
| But then in my last year of high school, I was like, well, what the hell? | ||
| What do you really want to do? | ||
| I mean, if you could do anything, I really literally asked myself that question. | ||
| If you could do anything, what would it be? | ||
| And I was like, I guess. | ||
| I really didn't want to stay in school for 10 years either, like studying. | ||
| I was kind of sick of that. | ||
| And then come out in debt. | ||
| Come out in debt. | ||
| That's the big one. | ||
| That's a big one. | ||
| Flavors the way they live their life. | ||
| Yeah, they live their life starting out of the gate in their career hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. | ||
| Yeah, and not just doctors. | ||
| Yeah, even even people who don't even go to grad school. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah, that's really rough. | ||
| So you asked yourself that question and how'd you come up with acting? | ||
| Yeah, I had some good teachers in high school who brought us to theater and I was reading a lot of plays in high school in the library in my school and just got into it more and more my last year or two of high school. | ||
| I wasn't acting. | ||
| I didn't do any acting then. | ||
| And then after high school, I went to an acting school in New York and took a couple of classes there and then stayed for a long time, actually, with a teacher and met a lot of people that I still work with today back then, you know, a couple of who were on The Sopranos, actually. | ||
| Is live performance, is that your love, like, theater? | ||
| Um... | ||
| You know, it is... | ||
| I mean, I love all of it. | ||
| I mean, it's always about the specific project and the material and the people you're with, but... | ||
| Doing it live is really special because, A, you're doing the whole story every night from beginning to end, right? | ||
| And you're on stage for whatever, two hours. | ||
| It's that concentration and that commitment. | ||
| You know, movies and television, as you know, is broken up into little bits throughout the day. | ||
| And it's a different kind of concentration. | ||
| But there is something special about being in front of an audience. | ||
| It's different every night. | ||
| The reactions are different every night. | ||
| And there's an interplay. | ||
| That's very exciting. | ||
| So, do you still do it now? | ||
| Do you go back and forth between doing films? | ||
| I haven't in a while. | ||
| I mean, theater. | ||
| I mean, I did... | ||
| I hope to start doing it again soon, you know? | ||
| At one point, my wife and I built a theater, and we were producing new plays. | ||
| Where'd you build it? | ||
| West 29th Street, Manhattan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, wow. | |
| Around... | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think we opened in 2003. So, when you say built the theater, like, what was there before... | |
| I was just like a raw space. | ||
| I think it was a club at one point. | ||
| And then literally my wife and my father-in-law built it. | ||
| And it looked like a theater from like 100 years ago. | ||
| It was beautiful. | ||
| How did you get the craftsmanship? | ||
| Where did you get the people to do that kind of work? | ||
| My wife and my father-in-law. | ||
| They did it all themselves? | ||
| They did a lot. | ||
| I mean, there were a couple of people that they contract certain things out for. | ||
| He passed away, but he was a master carpenter. | ||
| He was just brilliant. | ||
| And my wife's really good. | ||
| How many seats was it? | ||
| 75 seats. | ||
| It was very intimate. | ||
| And we did only new plays that had never been done. | ||
| And we also had classes there. | ||
| Acting classes. | ||
| What year was this? | ||
| Between 2003 and like 2010. So this is a real labor of love. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's not like you can make a lot of money off of 75 seats. | ||
| No, we didn't make money. | ||
| No, it actually wound up costing. | ||
| That's why we went out of business. | ||
| After the economy collapsed, we lost a lot of our funding. | ||
| We lost all the corporate funding, pretty much. | ||
| We had a few private donors who really loved what we were doing. | ||
| I built the theater, basically. | ||
| I did a movie. | ||
| Kind of a not-so-good movie for Harvey Weinstein, actually. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| And that money went and built the theater. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| That had to be a really interesting thing, like the moment you're on stage on this theater that you built. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you're performing these plays. | ||
| I mean, that had to be a dream realized. | ||
| That had to be a pretty special moment. | ||
| Yeah, I didn't act that much there. | ||
| I did more directing. | ||
| I mean, we produced all the plays. | ||
| I directed a bunch of them. | ||
| I think I only acted in one of them. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| But it was kind of the inmates running the asylum, really. | ||
| It wasn't really a company, but it was a company by default because there were a lot of people that... | ||
| Go-to people that I, you know, worked with. | ||
| But it was... | ||
| Yeah, it was really rewarding. | ||
| My wife built all the sets for all the shows as well as built the place itself. | ||
| So intimate. | ||
| 75 seats. | ||
| Really intimate. | ||
| Yeah, really intimate. | ||
| That's a wild decision to make, to build your own theater. | ||
| It was her idea. | ||
| I wouldn't have done it, probably. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Because I had worked in theater. | ||
| I started producing theater in my early 20s with a company, and I knew it's hard. | ||
| It's not a good business model. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But if you have the kind of passion, and we just found a way to do it, she was like, no, we'll build it. | ||
| I was like... | ||
| But it was really fun while it lasted. | ||
| Hmm. | ||
| Yeah, he wanted me to do a play. | ||
| He offered me a play. | ||
| That's not for me. | ||
| No? | ||
| You have no desire? | ||
| I did one night only. | ||
| What'd you do? | ||
| Guys and Dolls in Carnegie Hall with a bunch of Tony winners and me. | ||
| But listen, if you're going to do a fucking play, Guys and Dolls... | ||
| Guys and Dolls. | ||
| I was so scared. | ||
| Remember I told you? | ||
| I was so fucking... | ||
| Joe, I would have fought Shaq instead. | ||
| I swear to God. | ||
| You know, my agent called. | ||
| I said, sure, I'll do it. | ||
| Nathan Lane and all Patrick Wilson and Megan Mullally, all these great people. | ||
| And me, I went, okay, Jack O'Brien, one of the biggest Broadway directors. | ||
| And I went, okay, it's a charity for Carnegie Hall. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| And there you go. | ||
| Big Julie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Look at you. | |
| And so... | ||
| You know, nine days rehearsal, I'd never been so scared in my life. | ||
| I tried to get out of it. | ||
| I told my agent, get me out of it. | ||
| She said, I can't. | ||
| I said, there's no way. | ||
| And I did it, and it was the best thing. | ||
| When I was done, we had dress rehearsal in the afternoon, and then at night, it was packed. | ||
| Nine days? | ||
| Nine days rehearsal. | ||
| I took the train up to 42nd Street in a rehearsal space every day. | ||
| But what, you did the whole play? | ||
| The whole play! | ||
| And they memorized all the lines? | ||
| I memorized all the fucking lines. | ||
| I came in off book. | ||
| Is that unusual? | ||
| That's fast. | ||
| We would do 30 days. | ||
| That's for drama. | ||
| We didn't do musicals, so you're not talking about adding choreography and all that stuff. | ||
| But usually 30 days, 4 weeks. | ||
| Had an orchestra. | ||
| It was fantastic. | ||
| I mean, the night, I was so scared I didn't tell anyone except for my wife and kids. | ||
| They're the only ones that came. | ||
| I had fourth, I gave them. | ||
| That was it. | ||
| And afterwards, I was sky high. | ||
| It took me a few days to come down because I was so scared, but then it was so great. | ||
| Nathan Lane, there's nobody funnier than Nathan Lane. | ||
| Now, did you want to do it again after that? | ||
| Or was it such a... | ||
| Oh, I don't know. | ||
| I don't know if I... You know, I don't know. | ||
| If it was the right material, maybe, you know, I don't know. | ||
| Now, is that a... | ||
| That's a rushed performance, or a rushed getting ready... | ||
| It was one night only for charity, you know. | ||
| I mean, if you were... | ||
| And that was another thing that added pressure, because, you know, if you're doing the play, you're going, all right, if I fuck up Tuesday, I'll come back Wednesday. | ||
| This was... | ||
| You were all in. | ||
| This is all or nothing. | ||
| If I fucked up and there was producers out there, the guy from Cats, the big producer, what's his name? | ||
| The creator. | ||
| Andrew Lloyd Webber? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He was there. | ||
| There was all these people and actors. | ||
| It's like, you fuck up now. | ||
| I would have been mortified if I blew my line. | ||
| I was so scared. | ||
| It's not like, so you blow your line on TV. You film it. | ||
| All right, fuck it. | ||
| I'll go back. | ||
| This was it. | ||
| Yeah, that's it. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| 2,500 people, I was shitting in my pants. | ||
| Seriously, one of the most scared things ever. | ||
| Did you have a lot of nerves when you started in stand-up? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's scary when you start. | ||
| Yeah, and I came from fighting. | ||
| I went from fighting. | ||
| I was even fighting. | ||
| I had three kickboxing fights while I was doing stand-up, and I think my first stand-up was more nerve-wracking than fighting, for whatever reason. | ||
| It's terrifying. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, it's just also like... | ||
| What about now? | ||
| People didn't... | ||
| No. | ||
| No. | ||
| Now it's just fun. | ||
| I mean, it'll probably be nervous for me at the end of the month because I haven't done stand-up in three months. | ||
| Like, before I'm doing the Houston Improv just to fuck around and knock the dust off, I'm sure before I go on stage the first time, I'm like, holy fuck, do you even remember how to do this? | ||
| Because it's been so long, you know? | ||
| I've never had a stretch of my career three months with no stand-up. | ||
| I've taken three weeks off before and it felt weird. | ||
| So taking three months off is going to be very strange. | ||
| Do you combine, like, set material with improvisation and freeform stuff? | ||
| Yeah, like, there's always something going on in the audience, or there's always something that happens that day, or something that's going on in the news that you can talk about in the moment. | ||
| But you have to have some, at least I do, I have to have some structure. | ||
| So, basically, I have places where I know I want to get to, and then... | ||
| The rest of it is... | ||
| You have to be there. | ||
| You can't just be reading the lines and rigid with your script. | ||
| Because then the audience doesn't feel like you're having fun. | ||
| They don't feel like it's fun. | ||
| You're orchestrating a dance. | ||
| It's not just... | ||
| You're putting on a stand-up routine. | ||
| You're orchestrating their evening. | ||
| You're having fun. | ||
| There's a lot to the art form. | ||
| It would be hard to explain it to a computer. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| There's a rhythm. | ||
| There's a thing that's happening with the audience. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| Just as simple as like if there was a huge storm that day and everyone went through it together and you're showing up. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Something like that affects. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| You may refer to it. | ||
| And then there's chaos in the crowd. | ||
| I've seen brawls in the crowd. | ||
| All kinds of crazy shit happens. | ||
| But now you're so well known. | ||
| so do they laugh when they give you a break for like 30 seconds the beginning you got about 30 seconds they're like oh you're here steve all right but if you don't deliver the fucking goods we came out of our house we got a baby said we're so excited you're there And then 30 seconds later, like, where's the fucking jokes, man? | ||
| This is terrible. | ||
| And then they're mad at you. | ||
| And then it's worse. | ||
| Like, I've seen that happen with comics at the store, where, like, a famous guy will go on stage that doesn't really do stand-up, but does stand-up every now and then. | ||
| And that is the worst fucking place to do that, because you're on a lineup with murderers. | ||
| You know, it's Bill Burr and Chris D'Elia and Joey Diaz and Al Madrigal, all these killers, and then some jack-off from a sitcom will try to jump on stage and do 15 minutes and just... | ||
| In the beginning, they're like, oh my god, it's that guy from that show. | ||
| And then 30 seconds later, they want to cut your fucking head off. | ||
| That's not a good idea. | ||
| Just do the sitcom and stay away. | ||
| Or if you're going to do stand-up, you've got to treat it like you're about to go do a fight. | ||
| You want to be in shape if you're going to fight. | ||
| If you're going to do stand-up, you better be in shape for it. | ||
| You better be prepared. | ||
| You better have real material that's tried and proven or whatever you've written. | ||
| You better go over that shit with a fine-tooth comb. | ||
| You better be loose. | ||
| You better be ready. | ||
| You've got to be prepared. | ||
| Start small, maybe, to go out of town. | ||
| Do some open mic nights. | ||
| Do some guest sets if you're a guy. | ||
| But there have been some people that were famous first, and then they became stand-ups. | ||
| I think Charlie Murphy's probably the best example of that. | ||
| Charlie was Eddie's brother, so he's famous for that. | ||
| And then he did the Chappelle show, which was arguably the greatest sketch comedy show of all time. | ||
| And he had these hilarious parts. | ||
| But the guy had never done stand-up. | ||
| And so here he is, a huge fucking star. | ||
| Already, and then he's going on stage, and he's learning how to do stand-up in front of this audience. | ||
| And I think that's incredibly difficult. | ||
| Almost impossible. | ||
| Takes balls. | ||
| It's almost like Tom Hanks in Punchline. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| He acted like a stand-up. | ||
| He wasn't a great stand-up, but did a good job. | ||
| You ever see that movie? | ||
| It's a good movie. | ||
| Sally Field, Tom Hanks, they acted as a stand-up. | ||
| You could tell he's not a stand-up. | ||
| Yeah, you see it in, like, it's like when someone's playing a fighter in a movie, or there's a lot of other things. | ||
| Oh, a baseball player. | ||
| Baseball player. | ||
| You say, this guy can't even fucking throw. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Like, with basketball, you say, this guy can't play. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's things that you can see, like, people that smoke cigarettes would tell me that you could tell by a way a guy's holding a cigarette that he doesn't really smoke. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| They hold it too high in the... | ||
| I could never. | ||
| You can always tell. | ||
| We talked about that on the podcast. | ||
| Just the way they hold it. | ||
| I could never smoke. | ||
| I don't smoke anymore, but I did. | ||
| I've never smoked in my life. | ||
| Never. | ||
| A cigar, I could get away with. | ||
| If I had to smoke a cigarette, I don't even know how. | ||
| I could never do it on the show. | ||
| I think part of the problem is they're aware that they have a cigarette on them, whereas the person who smokes cigarettes, they just light that cigarette, and they always have a cigarette in their hand, so it's just a normal part of being who they are. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Whereas if you don't, you're like, I got a cigarette in my hand. | ||
| Everything you're doing, like, there's a cigarette in my hand. | ||
| I'm going to smoke a cigarette now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's like... | |
| You can tell. | ||
| You can absolutely tell. | ||
| Yeah, you can tell. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You can tell. | |
| You say, this guy's not a smoker, man. | ||
| I'm sure guitar players feel like that. | ||
| When you watch a guy playing a guitar player in a movie, I don't know how to play guitar, so I don't understand if he's doing it right or wrong, but I would imagine that would be infuriating. | ||
| A lot of stuff. | ||
| But listen, I used to watch the shows in Vegas, movies like from Vegas or TV shows, and in the first two minutes, you go, this movie sucks. | ||
| This sucks. | ||
| That'll never happen. | ||
| The deal is rooting for you. | ||
| Yeah, come on. | ||
| This will never happen. | ||
| Just like in New York, a Woody Allen movie. | ||
| Some Woody Allen movies are like fantasy. | ||
| The beautiful block with the trees. | ||
| It's like, if you're from that place or... | ||
| You're a comic, you know immediately, so that would never happen in a million years. | ||
| I guess in gangster movies too, you see a lot of bad, there's a lot of bad ones. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| What's an example of an obviously bad one? | ||
| Oh, Jesus. | ||
| I don't even know. | ||
| There's so many fucking bad ones where you go, this is just ridiculous. | ||
| This is just, you know. | ||
| I did one, Kill the Irishman, which I didn't like. | ||
| There's some really good actors in it. | ||
| But there's so many things that are off. | ||
| It was a period piece. | ||
| It's a fun movie. | ||
| I enjoyed that movie. | ||
| Did you like it? | ||
| A lot of people liked it. | ||
| I didn't like it. | ||
| I liked it. | ||
| The first cut, I hated it. | ||
| I remember I went to a screening. | ||
| I told my wife, I fucking hated it. | ||
| And it got better. | ||
| And as years gone on, people... | ||
| We shot it in Detroit. | ||
| It was supposed to be in Cleveland. | ||
| You know, just little shit. | ||
| Maybe if you're just a viewer, you wouldn't notice. | ||
| But I did. | ||
| But there's so many bad... | ||
| I heard Travolta playing Gotti was a bad one. | ||
| I heard that was hilarious. | ||
| I heard it was so bad it was good. | ||
| I didn't think Travolta was so bad. | ||
| I thought a lot of the other things were bad. | ||
| I think they shot some of it in Cincinnati. | ||
| So that means the extras are from Cincinnati. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| But there's a ton of them. | ||
| People love that genre. | ||
| People love the mob genre like the westerns or horror films. | ||
| It's the same thing. | ||
| Particularly after The Sopranos. | ||
| The Sopranos really kick-started that. | ||
| That genre became far more popular. | ||
| I think Mob City was a TV show. | ||
| There's been so many of them. | ||
| You got the nail on the head, the gangster in a can kind of guy. | ||
| You got some different stuff. | ||
| You say, this guy doesn't scare me for two seconds. | ||
| You know what was crazy for me was going back and watching the original episode of Sopranos where it read like a comedy. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| Very different show. | ||
| Very different show. | ||
| When Edie Falco has the gun and she's outside, and her daughter is coming back into the window. | ||
| But I'm like, this is like a comedy. | ||
| It was a different show. | ||
| Edie Falco's character evolved and became this very complex woman who is battling with this reality that she's living with this guy who's a fucking murderer and a mob boss, and she's enjoying the perks of that. | ||
| It became like this very interesting character. | ||
| But in the beginning, it wasn't like that. | ||
| In the beginning, the first episode was kind of funny. | ||
| Yeah, when I auditioned and read the script, I wasn't sure if it was a full-on spoof of the mob. | ||
| I really wasn't sure. | ||
| There was the murder scene that my character does, and there was some dramatic stuff. | ||
| There was a lot of humor in it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it was around the time, I think, Analyze This, so there was the mob spoof, and I wasn't sure. | ||
| I couldn't say that, you know, from just reading that pilot episode, it was hard to tell. | ||
| But... | ||
| I really liked the cast they were putting together, and that was the thing that really sold me on it. | ||
| I knew some of them, like Edie and Tony Sirico and Vinnie Pastore. | ||
| I knew Jim's work, but I didn't know him personally. | ||
| I'd seen him in a play, so I was like, this is a good cast. | ||
| But it was very hard to tell from that pilot script. | ||
| What happened that it evolved and it became what it... | ||
| I think it was always – that was always the plan. | ||
| Like anything, you start to see what you have. | ||
| Like what are these actors bringing? | ||
| What are they playing to their strengths and what kind of qualities they're bringing to it? | ||
| Just like there's that one scene in the pilot where at the end – towards the end of the pilot and my character tells Tony Soprano, oh, I could go to Hollywood and sell my story or something. | ||
| And in the script, it was kind of, he was like fatherly, like, you don't want to do that and sell out. | ||
| You got to stay with us and build a family or whatever. | ||
| And instead, Jim just grabs me, you know, by the throat or something like that. | ||
| And it became very menacing and very intimidating. | ||
| And he really, you know, and I think David saw that and was like, oh, wow. | ||
| That's the guy. | ||
| That's the character. | ||
| And it probably influenced how he took the story and how he would write it. | ||
| But I think a lot of the tone was already in his head. | ||
| But seeing what the actors were bringing to it, I think... | ||
| You know, influenced a lot. | ||
| Gandolfini was so fucking believable. | ||
| I mean, you know, when you think about a guy who just embodied a role, like when he was Tony Soprano. | ||
| And he wasn't like that. | ||
| That's the other thing. | ||
| He was more like a hippie. | ||
| You know, he was very laid back. | ||
| You know, he wore like Birkenstocks and like a bandana on his head. | ||
| Big music guy. | ||
| He didn't really talk like that. | ||
| He was... | ||
| I wipe my ass with your feelings. | ||
| Hey, big music guy. | ||
| He never wanted to do a talk show. | ||
| I would say, everyone thinks you're Tony Soprano. | ||
| Why don't you pick, whether it be Letterman or whatever, and show them The real Jim, you're a very intelligent guy. | ||
| I mean, he's not that guy at all. | ||
| Matter of fact, he would say to me, like before the season, let's go down and have dinner at Il Cortil, which I ran into you there one time. | ||
| Let's go down to Murray Street. | ||
| I want to start getting back into the swing of things, because he wasn't. | ||
| He didn't hang around with those guys. | ||
| He wasn't that guy at all. | ||
| But he never did a talk show. | ||
| He did 60 Minutes. | ||
| He wouldn't do any of the talk shows. | ||
| He said, I'm not interesting. | ||
| He wouldn't do anything. | ||
| And he didn't grow up around that. | ||
| He grew up in Jersey. | ||
| He went to Rutgers University. | ||
| He was an actor, theater guy. | ||
| I'll tell you what's funny. | ||
| I wrote a kid's book called Nicky Deuce, and it turned it into a movie, and Michael's in it. | ||
| Paulie Walnuts and Johnny Sack and I was in Jim's trailer and he had just did the movie with Brad Pitt, a mob movie and he said Harvey Weinstein called and he wants me to do Letterman and I said I don't do talk shows and And he gets calling and he says he got fucking nasty with Jim. | ||
| And Jim said, I will beat the fuck out of Harvey Weinstein. | ||
| He fucking calls me again. | ||
| I will beat the fuck out of him. | ||
| For the money he paid me, I'm not fucking doing it. | ||
| Sweet. | ||
| And this is all before the Harvey Weinstein shit, when he was still the king shit. | ||
| This is 2012, you know? | ||
| When you see that Academy Awards speech thank you compilation, where all the people go up, all the various people that eventually talk shit about him go up and praise Harvey Weinstein. | ||
| I never saw it. | ||
| Oh my god, it's so bizarre. | ||
| It's so strange. | ||
| Because they were intimidated. | ||
| He had that much power over people's careers and they didn't feel like their voice would be heard or that people would, you know, take them seriously. | ||
| He'd have to find a way to fuck you, basically. | ||
| Fuck you up. | ||
| He would know me every three or four times. | ||
| Like, I run into him in Madison Square Garden and there's a restaurant, Rebecca Grill, which he had owned a piece of at one point. | ||
| And give you a half-ass hello, maybe. | ||
| He was way above. | ||
| I was beneath him. | ||
| He never got punched in the face. | ||
| Is that what it is? | ||
| I heard Jason Priestley punched him in the face. | ||
| Jason Priestley? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| I heard that. | ||
| He got out of line and Jason Priestley punched him in the face. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| I think nobody beat the shit out of Harvey Weinstein. | ||
| And it wouldn't be that difficult. | ||
| He could fucking hardly breathe. | ||
| He's smoking, chain smoking. | ||
| He wasn't a tough guy. | ||
| He was tough with assistants. | ||
| If you thought about a character in a film, Harvey Weinstein is almost too on the head. | ||
| Almost unbelievable. | ||
| Nobody would do that. | ||
| He would never get away with all that. | ||
| Too much, too much. | ||
| How many years is he doing? | ||
| 20-something years. | ||
| Nobody would do that. | ||
| 20-something years. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And there might be more, right? | ||
| They've got cases in LA. Well, there's way more cases. | ||
| Yeah, there's way more cases. | ||
| This is just what he's been convicted for. | ||
| I mean, he apparently was behaving like that for decades. | ||
| So you're telling me nobody knew? | ||
| They knew. | ||
| They all knew. | ||
| That's what's crazy is it's worked into his fucking contract. | ||
| His contract had, if you get this amount, per sexual harassment case, they had it that he would have to pay this much. | ||
| If it was two, he'd have to pay that much. | ||
| If it was three, imagine if you're signing up for a place like, Steve, I know you're a piece of shit, so this is what we're going to work into the contract. | ||
| All your piece of shit behavior, we're going to write it down, and you're going to be penalized per contract. | ||
| I didn't know that. | ||
| It's amazing. | ||
| They're all complicit. | ||
| This is something that I don't understand. | ||
| These assistants, people in his office, people that knew this stuff, that saw this stuff, that set him up that he was meeting the girl in the lobby, but then she comes down and says, oh, Harvey needs to meet you up in his room. | ||
| She was part of it, or he, or whatever the assistants were. | ||
| It was like... | ||
| I mean, I would never do that. | ||
| They can play dumb. | ||
| Yeah, I would never be privy to that. | ||
| No, of course not. | ||
| But you also, you don't have to. | ||
| And when you think of an assistant in particular, you're thinking about someone who has virtually no power. | ||
| And there's a thing called diffusion of responsibility, where there's too many people involved, you don't feel like you're responsible. | ||
| You don't feel like you, you know, that's when they say it's easier to assault someone in front of a hundred people than it is to assault someone in front of one person. | ||
| Because one person might step in and stop you. | ||
| But 100 people will sit around and go, someone's got to stop this. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| I think that when you're an assistant, you're probably working check to check. | ||
| You got this guy who's the king of Hollywood. | ||
| He's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. | ||
| Intimidating you. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And he's a big, angry guy. | ||
| He yells at people. | ||
| He yells. | ||
| That's what he did. | ||
| You know, what's amazing to me is people still haven't come forward, people that worked with him, actors, whatever, actresses, I think they're still afraid somehow he's going to come back, like in a horror film. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's dead, he's not dead. | |
| Some people don't want to deal with that publicly. | ||
| It's a hard thing to talk about. | ||
| They don't want everybody to know. | ||
| I think you're right. | ||
| I don't mean people that he assaulted, just people that... | ||
| I just think they don't want to talk about it publicly. | ||
| I think you're right about that. | ||
| He's already been caught. | ||
| It's over. | ||
| They got him. | ||
| He's in jail. | ||
| He'll be in jail forever. | ||
| He's fucked up. | ||
| His body's falling apart. | ||
| He can't even walk. | ||
| I mean, it's punishment. | ||
| What a fall from grace. | ||
| A spectacular fall in just a few years. | ||
| I mean, if you go back seven years ago, there's not a whisper of this, right? | ||
| So seven years later, the guy's in jail, can't walk, you know, his body's falling apart. | ||
| That's where he just got to get somebody to give him the cyanide pill and fuck it. | ||
| Should have done that. | ||
| He had to know where this was going when he was free. | ||
| I don't think he did know. | ||
| I think he thought he was going to get off, and he was planning a comeback. | ||
| I know one of his attorneys that was there early on, and he fired him. | ||
| And I ran into him right before he got sentenced, a few weeks before. | ||
| And I said, this fucking Harvey's going to get off. | ||
| And he said, no, no, no. | ||
| You see, he won't get off. | ||
| If he would have kept me, I would have got him off. | ||
| How would he have gotten him off? | ||
| I didn't go, you know, I mean, I know the guy, Quaintance from the Knick Games, and sure enough, he got, what, 23 years? | ||
| It seems like things happen in the court of public opinion on guys like that. | ||
| Well, it certainly did. | ||
| I would have just, there's no way I would want to be. | ||
| What kind of life is that? | ||
| He's such a character. | ||
| I mean, just with his disgusting face and his body and, like, everything about it. | ||
| Horrible, horrible. | ||
| You had some dealings with him, huh? | ||
| Yeah, I did a couple of jobs with him. | ||
| I wrote a script for him to work with him kind of closely on that. | ||
| Did he try to grab you? | ||
| No. | ||
| He tried to grab me. | ||
| What was he like? | ||
| You know, he was okay with me. | ||
| You know, he had opinions. | ||
| He was all right. | ||
| I mean, it was just work. | ||
| There was nothing. | ||
| I mean, obviously... | ||
| You didn't go to dinner with him or nothing? | ||
| No, no. | ||
| It was only in his office and stuff. | ||
| And I did a job for his brother. | ||
| Another job for his brother. | ||
| I think his brother was a nicer guy, right? | ||
| He's okay. | ||
| I think he was very intimidated by Harvey. | ||
| I think Harvey was a bully to his brother. | ||
| Big time. | ||
| It's such a fascinating story. | ||
| It's incredible. | ||
| And he has a wife and the two kids. | ||
| And a beautiful wife. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| It's like, how the fuck does that even happen? | ||
| Beautiful wife. | ||
| And it's one of those things that if it's in a film, it's almost like he's too much of a villain. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You're right. | ||
| That would never happen. | ||
| All the details, when you put it all together, you're like, no, really? | ||
| In Hollywood, where he's famous, and he's dealing with the most famous people in the world? | ||
| Right, and everybody keeps their mouth shut, and he fucks A-list stars and then puts them in films? | ||
| Like, what? | ||
| Do you think that some of the women that have denied having sex with him had sex with him? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You do? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I wondered about that. | ||
| I would have probably. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| You would have fucked him? | ||
| No, I wouldn't have talked about it if I did. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Do you want to talk about that? | ||
| That's hard shit to talk about. | ||
| I understand, but the thing about Harvey Weinstein and people like that If he would have said, listen, I'm a fat, disgusting bastard, but if you bang me, I'll put you in the next movie. | ||
| They would be people lined up around the corner. | ||
| I think that is part of what he did. | ||
| No, no, I think, I don't know if that's true, you know? | ||
| I think, from what I understand, I don't think he needed to do this. | ||
| I think it's his ego. | ||
| I think that's true. | ||
| Like Bill Cosby was the same thing. | ||
| Yes, yes, it becomes a pathology. | ||
| And I think there's also a thing about power. | ||
| It's a power thing, to have power over people. | ||
| And also to have power over these beautiful actresses that everybody else was lusting over. | ||
| You put some actress in a film and she's the center of everyone's attention. | ||
| She's got a small dress on. | ||
| She walks into a room and the whole place lights up and she's sucking Harvey's dick. | ||
| It's the power thing. | ||
| Because he could have had tons of women. | ||
| He could have had a ton of women. | ||
| I think it's an addiction thing too. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| I think if you, you know, there was a recording of this one girl that he had groped and then, you know, she wanted a movie role and he's grabbing her and he's like, just come back to my place. | ||
| Come on, come on, just come back. | ||
| Like you're hearing it like a guy asking for heroin. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he was almost sniveling, like begging her. | ||
| It was weird. | ||
| Like he'd go from being really intimidating to almost begging like pity me. | ||
| I need you. | ||
| Please don't embarrass me. | ||
| You know, it was very weird. | ||
| Yeah, I think it's an addiction thing. | ||
| I think there was so much going on with that guy. | ||
| I mean, he had two young... | ||
| I don't know if they're daughters. | ||
| Do you have two young daughters? | ||
| I think he has older kids, younger kids. | ||
| They had his wife and they were just gone. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Unless he just said... | ||
| That's a rough trip. | ||
| Unless he just said, I'm going away. | ||
| I mean, I don't know if they visited him or what. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| It's all crazy. | ||
| It's a Shakespearean story. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Epic proportions. | ||
| Horror story for everyone involved. | ||
| Horror story. | ||
| The casting couch in Hollywood, if you stop and think about it, right? | ||
| You've got all these women. | ||
| They want to be in films. | ||
| They want to be stars. | ||
| Then you've got these guys that can actually help them, make them stars, but they want something. | ||
| And then you set up this dynamic that's existed since, you know, the fucking 20s. | ||
| Imagine what it was like back then. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| Well, you know the Fatty Arbuckle story? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Did you read the book, I Fatty, that Jerry Stahl wrote? | ||
| No. | ||
| It's fantastic. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| It's kind of almost like a fake memoir written from his point of view. | ||
| It's brilliant. | ||
| He was the biggest star of his day. | ||
| He was known all over the world. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, he was basically like... | ||
| He was a comedy star, a huge star, and he did something with a woman where he stuck a bottle up her vagina. | ||
| Well, this goes into it. | ||
| Apparently, there's theories that he didn't really do that. | ||
| That it was set up because the guy was jealous of him, like a studio guy. | ||
| Yeah, it goes into that. | ||
| It's a really good book. | ||
| Jerry Stahl, who wrote Permanent Midnight. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| That's a great book. | ||
| Is there real evidence that points to the fact that he was set up? | ||
|
unidentified
|
There is. | |
| I think there is. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| And that was the end of his career? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Done. | ||
| Toast. | ||
| Done. | ||
| The girl died. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| That's awful. | ||
| Yeah, there's different theories that he was set up by somebody and that all that was just... | ||
| Holy shit. | ||
| Yeah, imagine that. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
| Well, I can tell you the world is a better place with Harvey Weinstein off the streets. | ||
| Honestly, what he did to all these actresses and women and assistants. | ||
| Just horrible. | ||
| Not sexually, but he destroyed guys too, you know, and directors, and just a horrible human, and Jesus. | ||
| He was getting away with it, right? | ||
| For the longest time. | ||
| For the longest time. | ||
| Behavior that was reinforced by the people around him, and then he got away with it. | ||
| What's also interesting is, like, if you help someone murder somebody, you would get an accessory. | ||
| You would get prison time. | ||
| There would be charges, but there's no charges. | ||
| Against any of the people that absolutely knew what he was doing. | ||
| But that's what I'm saying. | ||
| I have two daughters. | ||
| Aiding and abetting? | ||
| That doesn't apply to that. | ||
| Joe, I got two daughters in their 20s. | ||
| I don't think my daughters in a million years, no matter how much they wanted to be in the business, would be an accomplice to that. | ||
| And tell the girl and say, well, Harvey's going to be up in the room. | ||
| Or whatever crazy things, go get Harvey's medicine to... | ||
| Fucking inject his dick or something. | ||
| Come on! | ||
| Do you know what he had? | ||
| I was going on this text thread with a bunch of comics. | ||
| He had a type of gangrene that you get from diabetes on his dick. | ||
| And his dick was horribly malformed. | ||
| So I had this, we were talking about this, and then I googled it, and then I said to my friends, do not google this. | ||
| And then they're like, why not? | ||
| So I send them a photo of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Horrible. | |
| Of what it looked like. | ||
| Oh my god, it's like... | ||
| Your genitals just rot away. | ||
| All the skin around it rotted away. | ||
| And that was one of the things that one of the actresses had said is that she thought that he was maybe intersex or transgender or that he had a vagina because he was so scarred up. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| So it's like, again, it's almost too on the head. | ||
| As a movie character, he's almost too disgusting. | ||
| Well, who do you see playing him in this movie? | ||
| Good question. | ||
| Who could pull it off? | ||
| Christian Bale. | ||
| I hope they don't make the movie. | ||
| I don't want to see that movie. | ||
| If nothing else, Lifetime will do it. | ||
| They're going to make the movie. | ||
| They'll do it. | ||
| Lifetime will do it. | ||
| I was going to say this. | ||
| There's all this talk about CGI acting. | ||
| And that they're going to be able to create CGI characters that act in films. | ||
| I think it'll be really boring. | ||
| I agree with you. | ||
| But maybe you could have a CGI Harvey Weinstein and just actually no one has to play him. | ||
| No one wants to play Hitler now. | ||
| You don't want to be the guy. | ||
| Oh, that's that guy who played Hitler. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| So like playing Harvey Weinstein in a film. | ||
| I think at some point there'll be a movie. | ||
| I think so. | ||
| There has to be. | ||
| The only thing that would hold it back would be Hollywood saying, you know, like, this is probably not good for us. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's opening wounds. | ||
| And you would have to, I mean, if someone really wanted to thoroughly research it and really find out what actually happened, it would take a long time. | ||
| Well, those two girls did. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That wrote the book. | ||
| There's a book out. | ||
| I think they were writers for the New York Times or the New Yorker. | ||
| There is a good book out about two... | ||
| They really researched. | ||
| Does it go into detail about the speculation of which actresses actually... | ||
| I didn't read it. | ||
| I mean, I don't know for sure. | ||
| But I think at some point... | ||
| You know what? | ||
| Didn't they not want to make the Belushi movie years ago? | ||
| Remember that? | ||
| Who played Belushi? | ||
| Michael Chiklis. | ||
| Michael Chiklis. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Once again. | ||
| But that's a very different story. | ||
| After defending the caveman. | ||
| Very different story. | ||
| Very different. | ||
| Yeah, very different. | ||
| But wait a minute. | ||
| But they didn't want to make that at the time. | ||
| That was a big thing. | ||
| Because of the drugs? | ||
| Yeah, they were trying to protect them, I guess. | ||
| And Hollywood kind of fed that. | ||
| Beasts also. | ||
| But he died and he was beloved. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Wired. | ||
| This is it? | ||
| Oh, there he is. | ||
| Is that supposed to be Jeremy Pippen? | ||
| Look at him there. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| He's so young. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And they didn't want to make that movie. | ||
| And a lot of actors didn't want to be in it. | ||
| Because of that reason, you know? | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| I never saw this. | ||
| They thought it might have damaged careers. | ||
| Do you remember that? | ||
| I don't. | ||
| I'm old. | ||
| That was a long time ago. | ||
| Yeah, big difference. | ||
| I'm old. | ||
| But the CGI thing is weird, right? | ||
| I think they're going to do that. | ||
| I think they're going to have CGI movies. | ||
| I think they're going to do it. | ||
| They've tried to do it before with that Tom Hanks animated film. | ||
| You remember that film? | ||
| No. | ||
| It's like a Christmas movie. | ||
| He's on a fucking train. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Do you remember that, Jamie? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Something Express. | |
| Yeah, something Express. | ||
| At least they won't want a bigger trailer. | ||
| The producers will like it. | ||
| The producers will love it. | ||
| The producers will love it. | ||
| Well, they'll love it because they can completely eliminate the artists. | ||
| I don't have to listen to this big mouth. | ||
| Fucking whiny actor. | ||
| Yeah, there it is. | ||
| The Polar Express. | ||
| It was very strange, but it wasn't realistic. | ||
| It was that uncanny valley between realistic, actual people and animation. | ||
| It was some strange sort of... | ||
| But you get the feeling that as time goes on, they're going to get better and better at this, and then one day they're going to be able to nail it. | ||
| Right, they'll get like Marlon Brando to do a movie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Stuff like that. | ||
| Like when Tupac came to Coachella and they had the hologram. | ||
| Yeah, they'll do stuff like that. | ||
| And that King Cole and his daughter, remember they sang the thing? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Sinatra's coming back. | ||
| A new here to eternity. | ||
| God, that's so strange. | ||
| Does that shit drive you crazy? | ||
| Kind of, yeah. | ||
| Hey, I'll be retired by then. | ||
| I've done green screen stuff, and I find it really boring and tedious. | ||
| Green screen stuff? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| No, I haven't done that animated version thing, but green screen is... | ||
| Well, yeah, given your sensibilities, if something came up like that for you, like a Jurassic Park-type movie or something like that, would you even be interested in that? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It depends where I'm at at the time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, if I was broke or not or something, I don't know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Sometimes you have to factor those things in. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, of course. | |
| No, I mean, the most fun thing is when you're, you know, dealing with other actors and going eye to eye and playing off each other. | ||
| To me, at least. | ||
| Not everyone's like that. | ||
| A lot of people like doing action and all that stuff. | ||
| I don't really care for that stuff so much, you know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I like more of the, you know, interaction. | ||
| Well, that's the best part of the business. | ||
| The actual work, you know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course. | |
| I don't like show business. | ||
| I don't know if you do. | ||
| I don't. | ||
| No. | ||
| I like the actual... | ||
| There's days, like even on Blue Bloods, I'm working, and I work a lot with Bridget Monahan or Donnie Wahlberg, and you go... | ||
| This is why I became an actor. | ||
| This was a lot of fun. | ||
| They respect each other. | ||
| The material's really good. | ||
| The scene goes. | ||
| What do you mean by you don't like show business? | ||
| I'm not a... | ||
| The whole bullshit, agents, managers, opening nights. | ||
| I mean, it's not for me. | ||
| I went to the Emmys four times, the SAG Awards. | ||
| I wanted to stick fucking needles in my eyes. | ||
| I mean, it's just not me. | ||
| I just... | ||
| I like real people. | ||
| Most of my friends are... | ||
| Friends that I've had my whole life. | ||
| You know, Michael's one of my closest friends, but you know what I mean. | ||
| I mean, I'm not a showbiz guy. | ||
| There's some guys that showbiz guys. | ||
| They love it. | ||
| They love going in and pitching. | ||
| I love it. | ||
| I love this. | ||
| I love that. | ||
| The whole world, the whole scene. | ||
| I don't, you know. | ||
| I like the work. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| I was kind of in show business even at the Riviera by default. | ||
| Somehow I went from a bouncer to booking acts. | ||
| I don't dislike them. | ||
| I'm just not a show business. | ||
| It's a funny path. | ||
| It's a funny path. | ||
| Your path is very funny. | ||
| Very strange. | ||
| I tell them I'm like an Italian Forrest Gump. | ||
| It's such a weird world. | ||
| You just sort of stepped into it. | ||
| Kind of, yeah. | ||
| And listen, I've worked very hard and I love the work. | ||
| But that part I don't like. | ||
| Some people love it. | ||
| They're always there opening night, you know, and at premieres. | ||
| Listen, I'm there if I'm supporting someone, a friend of mine or something like that. | ||
| I don't go just to go on the red carpet, take pictures, and the fuck do I care, you know? | ||
| I mean, that's not my thing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, no, I don't like it either. | ||
| I don't think you like that kind of stuff. | ||
| You like you're doing what you do. | ||
| Yeah, that's why I like doing this. | ||
| It's like it's outside of it. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, you know, like I said, the work on The Sopranos, on other shows, on movies, you go, man, that was fucking great. | ||
| I had a great day, you know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Not even if it's high profile. | ||
| Like, we did the movie. | ||
| That was great. | ||
| Every day was a great day, but... | ||
| Now, are they resuming filming now for things? | ||
| The governor of California said, I think this week, they're allowing some productions to open up again. | ||
| Not in New York. | ||
| I'm here in August, maybe, early September. | ||
| What's interesting is because of the protests, the COVID cases have ramped up and no one's saying that. | ||
| It's hilarious. | ||
| They're like, I don't know what happened. | ||
| They're all playing dumb on TV because no one wants to blame it on the protests or connect it in some way to the movement because then you'll be labeled a racist or something. | ||
| So they're not even saying anything. | ||
| So the people that we're relying on for the news are playing dumb as to why hundreds of thousands of people marching together face-to-face, screaming, How that ramps up. | ||
| I guess we're going to know in about two or three weeks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We already know. | |
| We already know. | ||
| But the mayor of New York, de Blasio, said the people either getting tested or whatever, don't ask them if they were protesters. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, that's part of it. | ||
| When they're doing contact tracing, they're not allowed to ask if you were a part of a protest. | ||
| Which is hilarious. | ||
| The world is upside down. | ||
| I want out. | ||
| It's so strange. | ||
| I want off. | ||
| Does it bounce back? | ||
| Stop the world. | ||
| It'll bounce back. | ||
| You think it'll bounce back? | ||
| It'll be different, but it'll bounce back. | ||
| It's going to take a long, long, long time. | ||
| Do we ever get to a place of logic? | ||
| Do we ever get to a balanced place? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| This woke ideology that's permeated politics now. | ||
| It went from being a thing that only existed in universities to it was existing in like tech startups and it was starting to get into media and it was working its way to journalism and now it's fucking everywhere. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's in life. | |
| But often things have to go really far before they kind of find a balance into society. | ||
| Like a lot of the protest movement Which I find hopeful is a lot of young people. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Very diverse crowd who are just saying, we don't want this world we're inherited with racism and institutional, you know, systemic racism and stuff. | ||
| And that gives me a lot of hope. | ||
| The protest gives you hope. | ||
| The protest. | ||
| You know, when Parkland happened and there was this big movement of young people who were saying, we're scared to go to school. | ||
| We want something done. | ||
| That was, you know, these kids who were saying, hey, we want something different. | ||
| And as they get older, you know, I think it'll be integrated into society in ways that, you know, will work. | ||
| I hope. | ||
| You have to have hope. | ||
| Otherwise, it's just too, you know... | ||
| I have a lot of hope in the young generation. | ||
| I really do. | ||
| Well, I have hope in humans. | ||
| And I think that if you look at the history of humans, if you go back 200 years, the way people behaved, and you compare it to today, there's a vast improvement in almost every area. | ||
| 100%, I agree. | ||
| And I think this is a big blip on the radar, this is a big moment in time, and I think we'll come out of that on the other end, a better species. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I agree. | |
| But along the way, there's gonna be a lot of devastation, like the fucking looting and the rioting and this stupid shit with de Blasio not asking if people have been protesters to find out what effect this thing has had. | ||
| Where you do get people that are in the middle of a pandemic and you get them on top of each other breathing each other's spit. | ||
| And that's what's happening. | ||
| The world is insane. | ||
| It's fucking insane, Steve. | ||
| It's gone crazy, man. | ||
| It has. | ||
| And there's nowhere to go. | ||
| You can't say, well, I'm just going to pack up and where? | ||
| Well, what's really crazy is it's all overseas, too. | ||
| I've been looking at these London riots. | ||
| They're having riots now in London and in France. | ||
| What the fuck happened that this shit made it all the way across the ocean? | ||
| It's so strange. | ||
| It's like, how did you guys start fighting? | ||
| Like, what are you rioting for? | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Well, they're protesting, too. | ||
| They're not just rioting. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right, right. | |
| There's also people who just, you know, have conscience about this and want change. | ||
| But there is, you know, the extreme, you know, people who are... | ||
| And some people who are not protesting who are just causing... | ||
| In some ways, it's hopeful because it shows you that the United States still radically affects the world culturally. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| When there is something that's happening over here, the rest of the world sort of takes notice. | ||
| The United States, like it or not, does take the lead culturally. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Yes, they do. | ||
| I mean, and then with films, that's a huge part of it. | ||
| I mean, TV too. | ||
| TV and films. | ||
| I mean, you stop and think. | ||
| I mean, there's been some great films and movies and television shows that have come out of England and the UK and other parts of the world. | ||
| But overwhelmingly, the art form emanates from here. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| We take the lead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And then with stand-up, that's... | ||
| I mean, this is where it started. | ||
| Stand-up started in the United States, and the difference between the stand-up here, the level stand-up here versus the level everywhere else, totally incomparable. | ||
| Now, have you done stand-up in other countries? | ||
| Yeah, go ahead. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I get it, man. | ||
| Four bottles of water. | ||
| I don't know how you're still here. | ||
| Have you done... | ||
| Yeah, I've done stand-up in Australia. | ||
| I love doing it in Australia. | ||
| I've done stand-up in England. | ||
| I've done stand-up in Ireland. | ||
| And audiences, what do you find? | ||
| Smarter? | ||
| They're great. | ||
| Smarter, dumber? | ||
| Attentive, very attentive. | ||
| Very attentive. | ||
| Yeah, like I took my friend Tony to Stockholm, Sweden, and he was like, he goes, dude, I felt like I bombed. | ||
| I go, no, they laughed. | ||
| They just laugh and then they listen. | ||
| It's different. | ||
| You get a different vibe. | ||
| You just have to, and then the second show, he goes, I got it now. | ||
| He goes, it just felt so different. | ||
| He goes, it just felt like there's no, they didn't roll with you. | ||
| I go, you also have to remember English is their second language. | ||
| So when they're listening to you, there's, you know, they have to kind of translate it and they're laughing, but also cultural context is very different. | ||
| Like they get our culture, they get the context, but it's not as front and center as it is if you're doing a show in Columbus, Ohio or something like that. | ||
| Wasn't it like in the 90s? | ||
| Where comics were going to England. | ||
| U.S. comics didn't like the audiences here anymore. | ||
| Hicks. | ||
| Rich Hall. | ||
| Some other comics. | ||
| It was a ventriloquist. | ||
| David something. | ||
| He went to Australia and England, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, they're very... | ||
| England has fantastic audiences, and they're really attentive. | ||
| They really listen well, and they do their stand-up very differently. | ||
| Their stand-up over there is, like, thematic. | ||
| Like, they'll do... | ||
| They'll have a theme, you know, and they'll carry that theme through their whole stand-up. | ||
| It's very different. | ||
| But, you know, there's been comic... | ||
| Like, Ricky Gervais is a great example. | ||
| They've done very well. | ||
| He's got a great show. | ||
| I like his show on Netflix. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah. | |
| He's great at everything he does. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's great. | |
| He's hilarious. | ||
| Funny, funny. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I loved when he was hosting the Golden Globes. | ||
| Loved that. | ||
| He was great. | ||
| Really great. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, just tells him, shut the fuck up. | ||
| Yeah, it's beautiful. | ||
| Because there's so much virtue. | ||
| This latest thing, all these actors have this black and white... | ||
| Video where they're talking about racism. | ||
| I take responsibility. | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| You know what I was saying to my friend? | ||
| I go, you know what that is? | ||
| These motherfuckers haven't gotten any attention for months because they haven't been filmed. | ||
| Jumping on it. | ||
| Well, you talked about it with the song Imagine at the beginning, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You fucking morons. | ||
| They got blowback from that. | ||
| Well, they got blowback from this, too. | ||
| Everything they try to do that virtue signals, like, you know, we're going to take a stand. | ||
| This is no longer going to happen. | ||
| It's not good. | ||
| Like, nobody thought it was good. | ||
| Like, this is not what this is. | ||
| What this is is a fucking horrible cop. | ||
| It's a really bad guy who killed somebody. | ||
| It's not like these actors are out there being racist and holding people back. | ||
| That's not what you're doing. | ||
| You're taking responsibility. | ||
| No, you're trying to get attention. | ||
| That's what you're doing. | ||
| This stupid fucking thing you're doing. | ||
| I wish they ever feel like doing that again. | ||
| Call me. | ||
| Call me. | ||
| I'll tell you how it's going to turn out. | ||
| Every one of these dumb things you're going to do, I'll tell you how it's going to come out. | ||
| If you're going to have one actor and then the next, you're going to cut to each one of them, I take responsibility. | ||
| No, you don't. | ||
| You take attention. | ||
| You're sucking it up like a sponge. | ||
| Shut the fuck up and wait. | ||
| You're a week away from filming again. | ||
| But that's also what we've talked about. | ||
| There's people that do stuff. | ||
| You know, for the money, right? | ||
| And then there's some that the money is irrelevant. | ||
| They need to be told how great they are and pat on the back. | ||
| That's what they need. | ||
| And then there's some of them that are so wrapped up in this liberal and progressive ideology that they literally can't see how dumb this looks to the rest of the world. | ||
| They think they're going to do a good thing, and they think that through their celebrity, they're going to use their platform and their voice, and they're going to make a difference. | ||
| If you really think that as a professional actor, you're going to make a fucking difference with racism and crime and violence and police brutality, you should stop acting because you should go to a fucking doctor and get your head checked. | ||
| I agree. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There's something wrong with you. | |
| Just shut up and act. | ||
| Shut up and act. | ||
| You can express your opinions. | ||
| That's cool. | ||
| Yes, but don't preach! | ||
| But that video was a little bit... | ||
| Cringy! | ||
| ...sanctimonious and very, you know... | ||
| Yeah, I got it from a bunch of my friends. | ||
| I don't even know what it means, I'll be honest with you. | ||
| It means I want attention. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It means I want attention and get ready to cringe. | ||
| Get ready to clench your butthole shut and go, oh no, no, what are you doing? | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| Yeah, that was kind of weird. | ||
| Do you guys know who Kyle Dunnigan is? | ||
| No. | ||
| Kyle Dunnigan is a hilarious comic who does a lot of these face swap videos. | ||
| He does Caitlyn Jenner. | ||
| His Instagram page is the funniest fucking Instagram page on the planet Earth, by far. | ||
| But he's got this new one that he did. | ||
| Go to it, Jamie. | ||
| Go to Kyle Dunnigan's Instagram page. | ||
| You gotta see this, where he has these characters that he does with the face swap, and he shoves them into that video. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So you get, and it's just, it lampoons. | |
| Yeah, wait till you see this, because this is the perfect antidote for that cringe. | ||
| Here we go. | ||
| Jamie, we'll cue this up here. | ||
| The guy is a goddamn genius. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I take responsibility. | |
| I don't see it, Jamie. | ||
| Did you see this? | ||
| Steve? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I take responsibility. | |
| I'm on the fence about it, but I'm missioning. | ||
| I take responsibility for every unchecked moment. | ||
| For every time I said, give me five. | ||
| On the light hand side. | ||
| I'll take responsibility for not listening to Megan. | ||
| And? | ||
| And leaving me knickers on the floor. | ||
| They're called underpants. | ||
| I will no longer allow an unchecked moment. | ||
| I will no longer throw away the African-American part of the Oreo cookie just to get to the creamy white mill. | ||
| I will hire more black hookers. | ||
| Going for a job should not be a death sentence. | ||
| Sleeping in your own home should not be a death sentence. | ||
| Sorry, I guess? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| We are no longer bystanders. | ||
| Well, who the hell's that broad? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Racist murderous cops need one. | |
| The only time it's gonna stop is when you start truly holding the perpetrators to account. | ||
| Start putting them in jail. | ||
| You're welcome. | ||
| Racism. | ||
| Rest in peace. | ||
| That is funny. | ||
| That's good. | ||
| That's good, but that's nothing compared to some of his other shit. | ||
| Go to his page if you need something to laugh at. | ||
| But have you seen the real one? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You saw it. | ||
| He does ones with the Kardashians where he has Caitlyn Jenner talking to the Kardashians, but the Kardashians don't really talk. | ||
| They just make noises like me, me, me, me, me, me, me. | ||
| No, you're a fucking idiot. | ||
| That's not what I said. | ||
| It's genius. | ||
| It's genius. | ||
| Yeah, this is what it is. | ||
| And I like a lot of those people that are in that video, unfortunately. | ||
| I think they're great. | ||
| I just think somebody should talk to them. | ||
| Somebody outside the business. | ||
| Just grab them by the shoulders. | ||
| That's their publicist. | ||
| They're not seeing people. | ||
| They're not getting feedback. | ||
| That's what it is. | ||
| Yeah, they need feedback. | ||
| Someone needs to grab them and go, listen to me. | ||
| Don't do this one. | ||
| Don't do this. | ||
| Don't do this. | ||
| The publicist is... | ||
| Well, the problem is also if someone comes up to them and tells them, are you willing to take a stand against racism? | ||
| And they're like, no. | ||
| You can't say no. | ||
| So you just wind up doing it because you don't want anybody to think you're a racist. | ||
| So you just kind of hop on board. | ||
| They did get big blowback. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| And the song. | ||
| The song got the bigger blowback. | ||
| Because that was ridiculous. | ||
| She was all smiling and beautiful. | ||
| Imagine there's no heaven. | ||
| And the big mansions. | ||
| And what was that about? | ||
| That was about the pandemic. | ||
| But in the meantime... | ||
| What does Imagine have to do with the pandemic? | ||
| Exactly! | ||
| The song has nothing to do with the pandemic. | ||
| It was Gal Gadot's idea. | ||
| She was apparently calling up all these celebrities asking for them to join in in song and they're gonna heal everybody through love and music. | ||
| You know, people had their big mansions and a guy can't pay his... | ||
| But meanwhile, what a terrible song to sing when people are dying. | ||
| Imagine there's no heaven. | ||
| Imagine grandma's just rotting. | ||
| But also that song has nothing to do, doesn't parallel the pandemic. | ||
| And you know, Joe, and especially at the time in New York, I mean, we've had three or four people that we know that died, you know, and numerous people that got sick. | ||
| And they were those refrigeration trucks. | ||
| I mean, they were everywhere, man, and the ambulances were going. | ||
| I mean, you know, things have calmed down, but it was fucking horrible. | ||
| It was 800 people a day in New York at one point in time, which is crazy to imagine. | ||
| I mean, think about nine of your theaters, right? | ||
| It was horrible, and then you knew people. | ||
| I mean, there's a guy who owned a diner, a couple diners. | ||
| I've known the guy for 20 years. | ||
| A photographer from the garden, a good guy. | ||
| He died. | ||
| Another friend of mine. | ||
| I mean, they died. | ||
| And numerous people got it. | ||
| So it's a real thing. | ||
| I mean, some places there wasn't many cases. | ||
| So... | ||
| I could understand in a way you see it on TV, yeah, but it's not here. | ||
| But in New York, people are holed up. | ||
| They can't pay their rent. | ||
| They can't pay their bills. | ||
| They can't eat. | ||
| Luckily, they got stimulus and unemployment eventually. | ||
| At the beginning, no. | ||
| You know, and you got some celebrity. | ||
| Ellen's saying it's like being in jail. | ||
| She lives in the biggest house in the world. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| On the beach. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It couldn't be any better where she's living. | ||
| The thing about Ellen was she got a little blowback. | ||
| She got a lot of blowback, but that was a funny joke. | ||
| She said, I'm in the same clothes every day and everyone's gay. | ||
| It's like being in jail. | ||
| That's funny. | ||
| Is that what the joke was? | ||
| Yeah, that's what the joke was. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| She wasn't saying, I'm in jail over here in my mansion. | ||
| Okay, then I got it wrong. | ||
| Yeah, what she said was fucking funny. | ||
| You know, she's like, this pandemic is like being in jail. | ||
| I'm in the same clothes every day and everyone's gay. | ||
| I mean, that's funny. | ||
| That's funny. | ||
| Because she's gay. | ||
| She lives with a gay woman. | ||
| I mean, it's like, that's a funny joke. | ||
| It was a good joke. | ||
| My mistake. | ||
| People were mad at her. | ||
| I'm like, oh, come on. | ||
| Oh, they took it out of context. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, they didn't care. | ||
| It's also when people are broke and people can't literally... | ||
| They're not just broke. | ||
| There's no hope in sight, and it's no fault of their own. | ||
| It's a very bad situation. | ||
| Terrible. | ||
| They don't want to hear any fucking jokes from some really rich lady who lives on the beach talking about how this is like prison. | ||
| I mean, honestly, and listen... | ||
| I'm very compassionate. | ||
| I mean, these people lost their jobs and they didn't have extra money. | ||
| Or maybe they're divorced and child support. | ||
| I mean, this is real shit. | ||
| And there was no way to make money. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| Even as much as a guy wanted to go to work or whatever. | ||
| There was no work to be had. | ||
| No work to be had. | ||
| Everything shut down. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's a mess. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then you take into account how... | ||
| Alcohol, like sales, was an essential business. | ||
| Liquor stores is an essential business. | ||
| But Alcoholics Anonymous was banned. | ||
| Yeah, it's crazy. | ||
| So you couldn't go to meetings. | ||
| So this is people that are just like in despair and then they can't go to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings and they can't work. | ||
| And then, you know, there's a lot of fucking, a lot of bad things happening. | ||
| Sunday was the first time I had a drink in three months. | ||
| Since this thing started. | ||
| I didn't have one drink. | ||
| I was depressed. | ||
| I knew if I get a drink and watch TV all night. | ||
| I just had my first drink on Saturday. | ||
| What did you spend the time doing during the pandemic? | ||
| You know, I would walk just about every day and really nothing. | ||
| I mean, I'm not a big TV guy. | ||
| I was reading, watching some TV, doing the podcast, preparing that, doing press, you know, radio and Zoom and shit like that. | ||
| It kind of kept us sane. | ||
| We were doing two a week, then we went down to one. | ||
| I had my wife with me and my daughter. | ||
| We cooked every night and I didn't see my older daughter for over a month and a half. | ||
| She just lives in a village. | ||
| I didn't even see her. | ||
| You couldn't even see her. | ||
| Plus, I don't want to get sick. | ||
| I'm overweight. | ||
| I'm not a smoker or nothing. | ||
| My wife's a marathon runner, but we're older. | ||
| I don't get fucking sick. | ||
| We were careful. | ||
| I'm still careful here. | ||
| Listen, it's a terrible thing, man. | ||
| And it's not over. | ||
| No, it's kicking back in. | ||
| That's what's crazy, because of the protests and because a lot of the states have lifted up their social distancing and then people are acting like there's nothing happening, so they're going to bars and they're drinking on top of each other. | ||
| People are tired of it. | ||
| Yeah, they're tired of it. | ||
| And feel like, oh, if it's open, it's open, let's go. | ||
| Right, exactly. | ||
| I understand that, but the thing is, it hasn't gone away. | ||
| I mean, I don't know what the fucking answer is. | ||
| I understand everyone's tired of it, but listen, down in Orange County, the beaches are packed. | ||
| Well, the good news is vitamin D is one of the most important factors in keeping a healthy immune system. | ||
| And one of the things that they found out was that 80 plus percent of the people that are in the ICU with COVID have a vitamin D deficiency. | ||
| Four percent have sufficient levels of vitamin D. It's a huge factor, because vitamin D is not just a... | ||
| I had a lady, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, she's been on my podcast several times. | ||
| She went into this whole... | ||
| I brought her on to talk about how to strengthen your immune system during this time. | ||
| And she said one of the most important factors is vitamin D. It's a huge factor. | ||
| It's one of the reasons why people on the East Coast, they get that seasonal depression, they're not going out in the winter, and if they're not supplementing with vitamin D, 70% of America is vitamin D deficient. | ||
| 70%. | ||
| It has insufficient levels. | ||
| And that's in the sun, vitamin D? Yes, you get it from the sun. | ||
| That's the best way to get it for sure, is to get it in the sun. | ||
| But you can supplement it. | ||
| And it has a big impact to supplement. | ||
| 5,000 IUs a day. | ||
| Supplement. | ||
| Take it. | ||
| And you know, like you said, I didn't understand that. | ||
| Liquor store is essential, but all these other things aren't essential. | ||
| And... | ||
| I mean, you're fucking drinking, your immune system's going down. | ||
| You're depressed as fucking hell. | ||
| There were some nights, you know, I can't sleep at night. | ||
| So I go to bed at 2 o'clock, 2.30 in the morning. | ||
| I mean, some nights just, I mean, I'm... | ||
| I'm up alone. | ||
| It's fucking horrible. | ||
| But there's a logic to the... | ||
| The reason why they had alcohol being an essential business is there's logic to it. | ||
| And that is there's a lot of people that are alcoholics. | ||
| And if you make them quit cold turkey and they can't buy any booze, you're going to take beds up that would be better suited for people that have COVID. Gotcha. | ||
| So the idea is just like let these people have their alcohol. | ||
| They just didn't think it was going to last as long as it did. | ||
| They thought this was going to be a couple of weeks of lockdown and then we'd get back to business. | ||
| But obviously here we are in fucking June. | ||
| I mean all this shit happened. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mid-June. | |
| Middle of March. | ||
| Three months. | ||
| Three solid months. | ||
| It is easier here. | ||
| After being in New York, I was there for two months of it. | ||
| It's just easier here. | ||
| It's easier here because people are more spaced out. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| You get in your car. | ||
| I've got a little... | ||
| I've got a backyard. | ||
| I've got a thing. | ||
| It's just easier as opposed to being holed up. | ||
| And I've got a pretty good sized apartment, but... | ||
| It's not the same. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Going down the elevator and the shit, you know. | ||
| And here it's sunny every day too, which is obviously better for your immune system. | ||
| And it's just better for yourself anyway. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just like you wake up, it's fucking... | ||
| It's better for your head. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I get New York. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| I just don't want to do it anymore. | ||
| You know, it's like I could be there occasionally for fun. | ||
| Have you ever lived in New York? | ||
| Never lived in the city. | ||
| I lived in New Rochelle when I lived in New York. | ||
| I grew up right in Mount Vernon. | ||
| Oh yeah? | ||
| Okay, yeah. | ||
| I knew a guy named, a pool player named Mount Vernon Tommy. | ||
| Vinnie Pastore's from New Rochelle. | ||
| Oh, is he really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I think Chuck Zito as well. | ||
| Oh, no kidding. | ||
| Yeah, I lived there because I couldn't afford to have a parking spot. | ||
| You know, I needed a place to... | ||
| I had to have a car because I had to do gigs. | ||
| I didn't know that you lived there. | ||
| Yeah, that's where I lived. | ||
| Where'd you work? | ||
| All the places in Long Island? | ||
| Everywhere, yeah. | ||
| Connecticut, Long Island, Jersey. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Pips. | |
| Oh, yeah, I did Pips in Brooklyn. | ||
| Yeah, I did that. | ||
| That was our friend's friend. | ||
| Ray Garvey. | ||
| Did you know Ray Garvey? | ||
| No. | ||
| He... | ||
| At some point, well in the 90s. | ||
| He bought it at some point. | ||
| He owned Pips. | ||
| But that had been there forever. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's gone now, right? | ||
| It's gone. | ||
| I think it's a sushi restaurant. | ||
| Is it really? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That was where Rodney started, David Brenner. | ||
| Richard Jenney too. | ||
| Richard Jenney. | ||
| I think Dice. | ||
| I don't know if he started, but Dice. | ||
| And Seinfeld was there early on. | ||
| Shoepshead Bay, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And there was no comedy clubs back then. | ||
| A bunch of rowdy fucking Brooklyn guys there. | ||
| That couldn't have been an easy gig. | ||
| Oh, it was a tough gig, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, Joey Cola, my friend Joey Cola was there, and some guy was- Joey's great. | ||
| Oh, you know Joey? | ||
| He comes on with us to- The live show. | ||
| The live show. | ||
| Ask him about Pips. | ||
| Some guy was showing him his gun, sitting in the front row, pulling up his waist, showing him his gun, going, fuck you, fuck you, look at this. | ||
| And Joey's up there, hey! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Trying to tell his jokes. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, we do this comedy with the conversation with the Sopranos. | ||
| He's a comic. | ||
| He comes with us everywhere. | ||
| He opens it and he interviews us on stage. | ||
| Oh, that's hilarious. | ||
| He's the best guy. | ||
| I love Joe. | ||
| There's no better guy. | ||
| I've known him for 30 years. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Good guy. | ||
| He's a great guy. | ||
| And he's been around a long time. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, he's a funny comic, too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, he does great. | ||
| And we had a European tour that got canceled, of course, to the 16 cities. | ||
| And Joey was coming with us. | ||
| Now, when something like that gets canceled, do they have an idea when to do it again? | ||
| We're talking next June. | ||
| We're supposed to do it. | ||
| UK and Ireland. | ||
| Well, that's probably safe. | ||
| A year from now, that's a good bet. | ||
| In Australia, we were doing like 2,500 people a show, which is just this little show, me, him, and Vinny, and we had an Australia comic who was a nice guy, but he fucking died every night except for his hometown. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Adelaide. | |
| He was in Adelaide. | ||
| But this year we're out there. | ||
| We're playing the London Palladium two nights. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| It was doing big business. | ||
| That's awesome. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And, you know, like I said, we answer questions. | ||
| Joey does a comedy. | ||
| And we've done it a lot of places here. | ||
| Atlantic City, Foxwoods. | ||
| And this time Joey was coming on the road. | ||
| So right now we're scheduled next June. | ||
| Well, I hope nothing crazy happens between now and then. | ||
| I hope not. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| That's a big hope. | ||
| It is a big hope, right? | ||
| Because it's hard to tell. | ||
| It's like you would have imagined, oh, you're going to be fine. | ||
| But all bets are off now. | ||
| All bets are off. | ||
| We're behind the looking glass now. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's a strange time. | ||
| It certainly is. | ||
| But listen, tell everybody one more time the name of your podcast, how to get it. | ||
| Talking Sopranos. | ||
| You can go to TalkingSopranos.com or Apple Podcasts, wherever you get podcasts, and YouTube. | ||
| We have a YouTube channel. | ||
| Gentlemen, thank you for being here. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Good seeing you. | ||
| Always good seeing you, brother. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Great to meet you. | ||
| All right, everybody. | ||
| Bye. | ||
| Joe, thank you very much. | ||
| That was fun. | ||
| That was fun. |
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