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Feb. 6, 2020 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:47:58
Joe Rogan Experience #1424 - Tom Papa
Participants
Main voices
j
joe rogan
01:34:58
t
tom papa
01:05:42
Appearances
j
jamie vernon
02:58
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Speaker Time Text
joe rogan
Tommy Papa!
tom papa
Joey!
joe rogan
What's going on, buddy?
You looking at that tarantula hawk?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
The size of that sucker, huh?
tom papa
I know.
I found one of those in my tub once.
joe rogan
That's straight from Maynard's Farm.
Maynard from Tool.
tom papa
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
Yeah, he sent me that.
tom papa
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
He found that fucking thing.
tom papa
Jesus.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was explaining it to me and then he sent me one.
That's how he rolls.
tom papa
That's how he rolls.
You're the coolest.
joe rogan
You brought bread.
You know I'm on this all-meat diet.
tom papa
I know.
But you have a family.
You have a family.
joe rogan
I'll deviate a little bit.
I'll deviate.
tom papa
You might want to take a look at it later.
joe rogan
I deviated over this weekend.
You did?
Yeah, I went to Disneyland and I had ice cream and then Friday night or Saturday night.
Saturday night I had pasta.
I had all kinds.
I had Girl Scout cookies.
I had a bunch of Girl Scout cookies.
And dude, I'm telling you, Sunday my back was hurting.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Monday my back was hurting.
Everything was like my knee was hurting.
All this like inflammation.
unidentified
It's crazy.
tom papa
Aky, puffy.
joe rogan
Yeah.
One day back, two days, because today's Tuesday, so I ate Corn of War Monday and Tuesday.
Everything's normal yet.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
No more eggs and pans.
tom papa
So you were full on meat for a whole month.
How many meals a day?
joe rogan
Two, usually.
tom papa
Two?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Usually a small meal around noon after I work out, and then dinner.
tom papa
Alright.
And no eggs?
joe rogan
Yeah, I would eat eggs.
Eggs and fish.
tom papa
Eggs, fish, meat.
No vegetables at all.
joe rogan
No vegetables at all.
tom papa
No fruits, no bread, of course.
joe rogan
I had an olive.
No, two olives.
And two pieces of chili mango the entire month.
tom papa
Two glorious olives.
joe rogan
But the pieces of chili mango, I legitimately felt guilty.
I love chili mango.
tom papa
I've never had chili mango.
joe rogan
Oh my god, really?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
It's one of the greatest creations.
tom papa
What is it?
Like a chili pepper mango?
joe rogan
It's dried mangoes, but with chili powder, all of them.
It's Mexican.
Big hit in the Mexican community.
tom papa
Dried.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's so good, dude.
It's so good because it's got the sweetness from the dried mangoes, but then it's got the spiciness from the chili powder.
tom papa
Ooh, that's right up my alley.
joe rogan
It's so good.
I ate two pieces.
I was only going to eat one.
I was like, fuck it, let me have another one.
When I ate that second one, I'm like, oh no, what have I done?
tom papa
Why'd you decide to do it in the first place?
joe rogan
The diet?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, because January is World Carnivore Month, and I know quite a few people that have done it that have had some serious results.
And serious results with autoimmune issues, too.
I have vitiligo, which is an autoimmune disease.
It causes you to have these patches where you don't have pigment.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
And this month, I had the best results that I've ever had with vitiligo.
It's transient.
tom papa
It comes and goes.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It comes and goes depending upon how well I'm taking care of myself, treatments and stuff like that.
But this month, I've had all these spots fill in at a pretty rapid rate.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
People with eczema have had spectacular results with it.
tom papa
Now, if you were to suggest to someone who wouldn't eat just meat, what percentage meat, after going through this, do you think you would...
joe rogan
I think the problem is not plants as much as the problem really is refined sugar, carbohydrates, and bullshit.
That's what I think.
I think that's the problem.
tom papa
Does cheese count in that?
joe rogan
You can eat cheese.
tom papa
You can eat cheese?
joe rogan
You can eat cheese.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
It's an animal product.
I think for most people the real problem is junk.
Candy, sugar, pasta.
Bread.
Glorious bread.
tom papa
Even that bread?
joe rogan
That bread's probably better, because it has less gluten, because you make sourdough bread.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's healthier.
tom papa
Just flour, water, salt, and yeast.
joe rogan
It's healthier for you, but I think bread in general, just the idea of bread, it's a human-created product, right?
tom papa
True.
joe rogan
You get all that concentrated carbohydrates in a very weird form.
It's It's like glue.
I mean, look at what it is when you're making the dough.
tom papa
Total glue.
joe rogan
That eventually becomes glue in your stomach.
tom papa
I've actually thought that before.
Did they put together cities with this stuff when they were starting out?
Because if it dries for a day, it's hard to get off the counter.
joe rogan
Right.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, you remember when you were a kid, you'd make paste?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Basically flour and water, and you'd make, like, a paste.
tom papa
I just posted videos on how to bake the bread.
unidentified
Oh!
tom papa
Because everyone's constantly asking for it.
So I put a new series on YouTube called Getting Baked with Tom.
LAUGHTER And it's just me in my kitchen showing you how to make bread.
And I realized when I was making it, this is a long process.
I have four videos getting through one loaf of bread over multiple days.
joe rogan
Are you still doing the TV show?
You were doing a TV show for a while.
tom papa
Yeah, we're not.
That was called Baked on the Food Network.
joe rogan
How'd that go?
tom papa
It went great.
People really liked it, but we're not making any more.
I don't know why.
So then I was like, well, why do I need the Food Network?
I can just keep making it and put it on YouTube.
joe rogan
It's so much better to put it on YouTube because people can access it anytime they want.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
This archaic system of waiting for Tuesday night at 8 o'clock, for sure.
tom papa
Yeah, that's what suddenly occurred to me.
Like, wait, I've got cameras.
I've got friends.
joe rogan
There I am.
Look at you.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Have you varied your process at all since you first started doing this?
Have you added any?
tom papa
Yeah.
Well, you get better at it.
It's a skill.
It's a thing.
Sure.
It sounds corny, but you become one with it.
Like, I know the weights of things just by holding it, and I know the timing of things, and I know the temperature, what that's going to do, and it's just very immersive.
So, yeah, I started branching out, and then also started making bagels and Bagels?
joe rogan
Now, don't you have to boil bagels?
tom papa
You do.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
So I just take a Dutch oven just with water in it and boil it up and baking soda and let that kind of bubble up.
joe rogan
But you use a different kind of flour for the bagels?
tom papa
No, same flour.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
Same flour.
joe rogan
Sourdough flour?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Sourdough bagels?
tom papa
Yeah, that's the key.
Like, there's so many bad bagels in LA. And, you know, people always talk, oh, it's the water, it's this and that.
And, you know, I met this Vito's Pizza is a guy from Jersey here in LA that makes great pizza.
And I'm like...
So what is it, the water with the dough?
He's like, it's just knowing what you're doing.
And I keep running into these bad bagels.
And I realized the flavor that's coming out of the bagels I'm making is because of the sourdough starter.
It has this different flavor.
It's a deeper flavor.
It's not just to use that as the yeast.
It's to actually make it taste better.
joe rogan
Is it true that the water is different on the East Coast and is it a more mineral-rich water?
tom papa
That's what everybody says.
joe rogan
Wouldn't that just be pretty easy to add those elements to water from the West Coast?
tom papa
You would think.
And some people say that they, like, import the water.
joe rogan
Maybe that's why people are less flavorful over here.
unidentified
You know what I mean?
tom papa
Yeah, they're not filled with all the...
joe rogan
I mean, flavorful like Joey Diaz, like mad flavor.
He's got flavor.
You know what I'm saying?
He's got charisma.
The thing.
You don't get a lot of that out here.
tom papa
No, you don't.
Yeah, it's different.
It's different.
It's a chill...
joe rogan
Well, even the people that do have flavor out here, it's like their flavor goes up to seven.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You don't get tens.
unidentified
You're right.
tom papa
You come from Jersey and you got rusty pipes, you got rats swimming in it, all generations of stuff in there.
Yeah, that's going to add to it for sure.
joe rogan
Yeah.
There's something...
The water does taste different, though.
tom papa
It does.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Like, my manager, Jeff, he loves New York City tap water.
He's always, like, stolen the virtues of New York City tap water.
I'm like, bro, you're crazy.
I'm not drinking that.
Just any day now, a hundred people could die from that shit.
unidentified
I know.
It's one of those things.
tom papa
Everybody's so proud about it, though.
And I am, too.
And we go back with my family, like, around Christmas.
We were just there, and I'm like, you just drink from the tap.
And my kids took a sip of it, and she's like, it tastes like carrots.
unidentified
LAUGHTER And she was right.
tom papa
She was really right.
joe rogan
It tastes like carrots.
tom papa
That's hilarious.
It had that kind of iron, carrot-y flavor.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's stuff in there you're not supposed to drink, probably.
tom papa
No, a lot of stuff.
joe rogan
Or maybe you are supposed to drink it, right?
tom papa
Well, yeah, maybe.
Like minerals.
Less anemic, maybe.
joe rogan
Well, minerals taste bad.
But they're good for you, right?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like hard water.
When you get hard water, isn't that minerals?
tom papa
That's minerals.
Right.
And it's great to shower.
You ever shower in soft water?
And the soap just never comes off?
joe rogan
That's true.
tom papa
After hours of sitting.
joe rogan
Why is that?
tom papa
I don't know, but in my parents' townhouse, you take a shower, you're going to have soap on you the rest of the day.
joe rogan
So do they have a filtration system?
Is that what it is?
tom papa
I don't know.
Yeah, I guess so.
unidentified
Must be.
tom papa
Right, must be something that takes the minerals out.
joe rogan
So when you get like that residue on your shower head, that white residue, that's hard water, right?
tom papa
That's sperm.
Huh?
What?
Fun fact.
unidentified
Oh no!
joe rogan
I am so busted.
That's one thing I've done maybe like three times my whole life is jerk off in the shower.
tom papa
Three times?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's like never been my thing.
I think I've probably done it just to say, well, here's some place I've never jerked off.
tom papa
I can't go through the world with a place that hasn't been violated.
joe rogan
I've never jerked off in the tub, I'll tell you that.
Never.
It's just too hot in there.
It's just too confusing and frustrating.
tom papa
Well, you gotta let the water down a little.
joe rogan
Then you're just like, then you're being a weirdo.
That's like those guys who lay in bed to masturbate, they bring a box of tissues and a towel.
tom papa
Set up like they're going on a date.
You're a pervert.
joe rogan
What's wrong with you?
unidentified
Right, exactly.
joe rogan
Jerking off is supposed to be a maintenance thing.
Like, you just need it.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, let me just take care of this so I'm not obsessed.
tom papa
Right.
Let me get a cup of coffee.
Let me do that.
Get to the goddamn office.
joe rogan
Yeah, Jesus Christ.
People that don't masturbate at all, that's got to occupy too much real estate in your head.
There's no doubt about it, right?
tom papa
Well, I don't know.
You could argue that the people that do it all the time...
joe rogan
There's a lot of real estate.
I think porn, in particular, is a real issue for people.
It does become an obsession.
tom papa
Yes, indeed.
I remember a buddy of mine was really into it in the early internet, and he started looking at the world through a porn lens.
Every girl was to be approached like somebody in a...
Yeah, it messed with his head.
joe rogan
Oh, that's not good.
tom papa
Anything you watch...
For that amount of time.
Right?
It's going to affect you.
joe rogan
I've often thought that about violence because I've seen so many people get beat up.
Like I'm so comfortable with people getting beat up.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Like fights.
Like if I see a fight somewhere, like a fight breaks out.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
My heart rate doesn't jack up.
It doesn't go, oh my God, this is crazy.
I can't believe they're fighting.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It's like, hmm.
Look at that.
Bad technique.
Dropping his hands.
Look at this dude.
Oh my god.
His left leg's off the ground.
There's no what he's doing.
tom papa
This is out in the world?
Like, just seeing two guys go at it?
joe rogan
When I see two guys go at it, I'm like, look at this terrible technique.
tom papa
And I'm running to the car.
joe rogan
I see everything coming a mile away.
It's crazy.
tom papa
I see society becoming unhinged.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Get me out of here!
joe rogan
It becomes normal, I think.
Yeah.
Violence becomes normalized.
Like, you know, I've been reading a lot about Native American cultures lately.
I've gone through like five books on the Wild West over the last few months.
And one of the more disturbing and shocking things is the torture.
Native Americans would torture their victims.
Oh.
Yeah, particularly the Comanches.
Yeah.
tom papa
Those were the badasses, right?
joe rogan
They were the badasses.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
They were the reason.
Until they developed a repeating, a multiple-shot revolver that carried a chamber that had more than one bullet, they were running shit because everybody else had muskets.
And they could shoot multiple arrows.
You know, they could, they would, there's a, have you ever heard of, there's a guy named Lars Anderson, do you know who he is?
tom papa
Yeah, I've heard of him.
joe rogan
He's a famous, YouTube famous archery expert.
unidentified
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
And he, going through old texts and old artistic depictions, realized that the idea of a back quiver where you would reach back to grab an arrow and then put it on the string and then pull it back and shoot the arrow is not accurate.
That what they actually would do is put the arrows in between their fingers...
And they developed a technique where they would draw and pull and draw and pull and draw and pull.
tom papa
Just release one at a time.
joe rogan
Yes.
And they would go from finger to finger.
So they literally could shoot an arrow a second.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
And so this guy, he actually shows how he can do it.
Not just in theory.
See how they're holding...
In some of the depictions, you see that they're holding multiple arrows in their hands instead of in a quiver.
And so he figured out how to do it.
Where he can shoot multiple arrows in a second.
See if you can get to him.
See, he's doing that.
That's him pulling arrows out.
tom papa
And this is what the Comanche did?
joe rogan
Yes.
The Comanches were able to do that, and when they were able to do that, they were able to shoot the American settlers and the U.S. Army soldiers multiple times before they could get off another bullet because they had to pack a chamber.
See how he's shooting all those arrows?
unidentified
Oh, yeah, look at that.
joe rogan
Because he keeps all the arrows in his fingers.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
So he tucks them in his finger, and then he just grabs it with the other hand, draws it back.
tom papa
So they were actually winning the war for a while.
joe rogan
Exactly.
For hundreds of years.
tom papa
Hundreds of years.
joe rogan
For hundreds of years.
And it was so crazy.
What they would do is the U.S. government would give people allotments of land, saying, hey, Oklahoma's a beautiful place.
Why don't you guys move there?
And you can get a thousand acres of land.
Like, whoa, golly, I'm going to take my family and move to Oklahoma.
So they would send these people in.
They would just get slaughtered.
tom papa
Why?
joe rogan
Yeah, because they wanted to try to figure out how to settle this land.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And they wanted these people to kind of fight the battles with the Comanches.
And then the soldiers eventually would move in and then they would set up forts.
tom papa
So they would just put out as bait?
joe rogan
Yes.
I mean, it's horrific.
Whether it's conscious or unconscious, or whether it's semi-aware, or maybe these people could fix it.
But they definitely did get slaughtered.
tom papa
What part of the country were the Comanche?
joe rogan
Oklahoma, Texas, a lot of sections of the West.
They ran things.
Thousands?
Yeah.
They were incredibly nomadic.
They rode horses.
They were fantastic with horses.
They had the most horses, which is one of the reasons why they're the most powerful tribe.
And all they ate was meat.
They would eat buffalo, mostly, and occasionally berries and stuff like that.
But mostly their diet consisted of buffalo.
So they would follow the buffalo and then kill all the other Native Americans they encountered.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Kill all the settlers they encountered.
Oh, they were ruthless.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
But the torture.
joe rogan
The torture is insane.
Cutting people's arms and legs off and throwing them on a fire while they're still alive.
Shit like that.
tom papa
Jeez, so they enjoyed it.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, this book that I read, Empire of the Summer Moon, is all about the Comanches.
This guy S.G. Gwynne was in here and he kind of explained how he found out about it when he moved to Texas.
And he moved to Texas and started delving into the history of the Comanches and the war that the Texas Rangers, the Texas Rangers, the original Texas Rangers were created to combat the Comanches.
They were these super badass soldiers that dressed like Indians.
And they realized they had to learn how to fight on horses, because the Comanches actually shot arrows on horses, whereas the original U.S. soldiers would get off the horse to shoot a shot.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And it just was ineffective.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And the Comanches would run up on them and fill them up with arrows.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And kill everybody.
It was crazy.
They would kidnap all these white settlers and take their babies and kill their babies, take their children, incorporate their children into the tribes, rape the women, torture and kill the men.
tom papa
Wow.
But they were nomadic.
So they didn't settle, create little towns.
They were just always moving around.
joe rogan
Only tents.
And they followed the buffalo.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
tom papa
So just like seasons, they would stay in an area for a little bit.
joe rogan
They would just follow the buffalo.
Wherever the buffalo were, that's where they would go.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
Yeah, but the thing about it is, it's, to me, so strange that cultures can become comfortable with extreme violence.
Like, very comfortable.
tom papa
Yeah.
Right.
Well, anything that you're just exposed to all the time.
You know, we're a pretty violent society, right?
We see a lot of violent images all the time.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
We see it, but in terms of day-to-day violence, compared to just a couple of hundred years ago, it's a pretty radical drop-off.
tom papa
Yeah, you'd have to choose to digest it now.
joe rogan
Yeah, you'd have to choose.
But a lot of people do choose.
tom papa
Yeah, but also you can put yourself in a little bubble and feel like it doesn't really exist.
joe rogan
Or you can get into a murder bubble, just like some people get into a porn bubble.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You can just get into watching people get slaughtered all day long.
tom papa
Yeah, right, exactly.
joe rogan
There's plenty of videos.
tom papa
Yeah.
Nah, I'm going to watch other things.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Bread.
tom papa
My Netflix special.
joe rogan
Oh, that's that.
It comes out tonight, right?
At midnight?
Is that what it is?
tom papa
Last midnight.
joe rogan
Oh, last night.
tom papa
So it's out right now.
It's out.
joe rogan
Oh my Jesus.
tom papa
It's done.
It's out.
joe rogan
Are you happy with it?
tom papa
I am happy with it.
joe rogan
How many years did you work on it?
tom papa
Two and a half.
joe rogan
That's a good number.
tom papa
Yeah.
Close to three.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That's a good number.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That seems like to polish an act, get it tight, tour with it a little bit, and then almost get to the point where you're done with it.
tom papa
Yeah, almost sick of it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Where something started, that's how I can tell when jokes start to peel off, because you're not, you're done with them.
Yeah.
And then other ones, do you ever have when you get close to taping, all of a sudden something new pops in and makes the lineup last minute?
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, of course.
tom papa
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
Of course, yeah.
tom papa
Other stuff you've been working on and really trying to perfect it for a couple of years, and then all of a sudden something shows up like the last week that's a killer.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
I think it's just you're in that space.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
And yeah, I shot it in Newark.
joe rogan
Newark?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Why Newark?
tom papa
I'm from Jersey.
I'm a Jersey guy.
joe rogan
I was born in Newark.
tom papa
Yeah.
And I just feel like I just have a real affection for all those great New Jersey cities that have been just destroyed by corruption.
Passaic, Patterson, Trenton, Newark.
Was that what destroyed them?
Yeah.
unidentified
Corruption?
tom papa
Yeah.
Political corruption.
There's a ton of money in New Jersey.
There's a ton of money.
People getting taxed like crazy.
And then these politicians multiple times going to jail for abusing the system and getting busted and bribery.
And it's just awful.
Just really.
And it just became real violent places and people started moving out.
And I really think it's going to come back.
They're just too great.
It's like Asbury Park at the Jersey Shore.
I used to drive through there and it was just bombed out with these great big Victorian homes right on the beach.
It's like, how's this place not just kicking ass?
And the only way that it ever works, the gay community comes in and says, well, this is nice, and we're going to fix it.
joe rogan
Is it the gay community that built it up?
tom papa
Yeah, they saved...
joe rogan
Asbury Park?
tom papa
Asbury Park, absolutely.
joe rogan
That's awesome.
tom papa
So I think it's going to come back.
So I just wanted to, in a little way, just shine a little light on Newark.
joe rogan
So Asbury Park is basically a gay neighborhood now?
tom papa
I don't know if it's a gay neighborhood, but it's a good, healthy gay population.
joe rogan
And so they buy these Victorians that are on the beach, and are they valuable now?
tom papa
Yeah.
Yeah, the real estate's really come up there.
joe rogan
Only makes sense, right?
There's only so much beachfront property.
tom papa
Exactly.
joe rogan
I mean, look at Malibu.
It's preposterous.
I've looked at houses in Malibu that are on the beach.
tom papa
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
It's hilarious.
tom papa
Yeah.
Like...
It doesn't make sense money.
joe rogan
Millions and millions of dollars for a house that looks like it costs $150,000.
tom papa
I know, exactly.
Yeah, that in North Carolina probably would.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Right?
joe rogan
And should.
tom papa
Yeah.
No, it's crazy.
But it's limited.
There's not that much, especially in that area.
You know, the Jersey Shore, the whole coast.
It's like Manhattan.
It's the same thing.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
But I do feel like, I mean, you look back and you read all these books from, like, Philip Roth and stuff.
He was from Newark.
And it was just this thriving place with industry and people living their lives.
And then it became this real darkness.
And it feels like, I'm hopeful that the population will succeed in turning them over.
joe rogan
Hmm.
So what was the theater that you went to?
tom papa
The Performing Arts Center, the Victoria Theater, and it's like this performing arts theater there.
It's beautiful, great space.
This little downtown, it's where the Devils are playing and the Nets before they moved.
It's like this one square block.
I mean, you get on a train, you're in Manhattan in 10 minutes.
So it was this great theater.
I did two shows there.
I'd performed there before.
I've got a lot of fans in Jersey.
Yeah, slowly, parts of it.
It's tough.
Two steps forward and two steps back.
joe rogan
We've done some UFC fights there.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Oh, right, because you couldn't do New York, right?
joe rogan
Yes, for a long time.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
So we used to do it in Newark.
tom papa
Yeah.
You know, there's a beautiful downtown area, really great, beautiful Whole Foods and Nike.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
Yeah, beautiful.
joe rogan
Newark?
tom papa
Yeah, beautiful.
And then, you know, you get to the outer...
You go a couple more blocks.
It's a different story.
joe rogan
When I first moved to New York, I stayed with my grandfather in Newark.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
My grandfather bought a house in Newark in, like, the early...
I guess it was probably the 40s he bought a house there and stayed there until he died.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
North 9th Street.
And it was originally an Italian neighborhood, and then it slowly became a bunch of different kinds of neighborhoods.
They did a thing called blockbusting.
What's that?
Where real estate agents would come in and say, hey, black people are moving into this neighborhood.
You've got to sell now or your real estate value is going to drop.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
Yeah, and my grandfather was like, fuck you, I like black people.
unidentified
Get out of here.
joe rogan
He stayed there forever.
tom papa
Why would I move?
joe rogan
He wouldn't move, man.
But the neighborhood changed from an all-Italian neighborhood to a black neighborhood, and then it eventually became a bunch of different immigrants.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And then when I stayed there...
And this was probably 88, 91, 92 was when I lived there.
It was bad, man.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Next door neighbor got his house broken into by the cops.
They battering rammed his front door because he was selling crack.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
The crack epidemic.
joe rogan
My grandfather knew that kid from the time he was little.
tom papa
Terrible.
joe rogan
You know, he's watching this kid grow up to become a drug dealer.
tom papa
God.
joe rogan
He had like a nice Audi that he kept parked in the driveway.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Behind a gate.
tom papa
Geez.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was spending all that crack money.
tom papa
Crack money.
My sister runs this nonprofit, I think I've talked to you about it, called City Green out of Clifton.
And they create all of these city gardens and...
Take over farmlands, like in Passaic and Patterson.
And it just really, you bring these young kids in.
She has like these learning gardens and these school programs where these kids from Patterson and Passaic come in.
And they're just like these young little kids that don't understand like where vegetables come from.
Their parents, their families are blown apart and they're just like, they're as thirsty as the vegetables.
Yeah.
They just want love and learning and want to be useful.
It's so inspiring to see.
And if you can get kids at that age, like four, five, six, seven, if you can get them there, that's going to change everything.
If you can come in and help these kids out and give them a lifeline, that seems like where most of the change can happen.
joe rogan
Yeah, if you can catch them when they're young.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Give them a positive direction to go into.
That's one of the things that I've talked about a bunch of times in the podcast.
Like, we spend so much money overseas to try to replace dictators and get rid of fucked up governments.
Yeah.
Going into inner cities and trying to give young kids a chance.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
Give them opportunities, create community centers, do something where you give them an alternative to drugs and crime and gangs and all the shit that plagues those areas.
tom papa
That's where I really believe.
And I've talked to other people that are really into philanthropy, and they all seem to think that that's the way to do it.
joe rogan
Get them when they're young.
tom papa
Get them when they're young.
But what the program is, is difficult, and you've got to try and get the parents involved with it and all that.
If you can do that, there's, I mean, they're so inspiring when you see these kids then move up to high school and they're just, you know, I grew up with kids that were, you know, okay and so lazy in comparison to these kids.
They just suck everything in and want to do well and they're inspiring.
These kids will just kick ass, do whatever they have to do to learn, do whatever they have to do to get into college.
They're just really like some of the best people you could possibly make.
joe rogan
Because they're thankful that they had that opportunity and they understand that they could have gone a bad way.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Like a lot of people that they grew up with.
tom papa
Yeah, and they see in their neighborhoods, you know, there's trouble.
This isn't guaranteed that things are going to go right for me.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Right?
joe rogan
It's amazing that there hasn't been more time and effort invested by the government to try to clean up these terrible neighborhoods.
It's just not immediately profitable and I guess every politician has four years in office.
tom papa
Yeah, it's really...
I know.
It's like...
I did a fundraiser in Newark.
This is where I got the idea to do the special there.
I did a fundraiser.
It wasn't a fundraiser.
It was like an awards dinner kind of thing for this prominent lawyer.
And all these politicians were there.
And they all seem like, you know, people with good intentions and whatever.
And then you walk out into...
Into the city and on the way to the airport.
And it's like, man, this is some of these areas.
It's like, how?
Those people were nice, but it'll take thousands of those people to really all work on that problem.
Like, I don't know how you do it.
And you know, when I travel around touring, and I'm sure you see it too, in every city, all of a sudden, there's these tent cities just popping up with homeless people that wasn't around when I started touring.
Like in the middle of New Orleans, in the middle of every city, San Francisco, the upper Midwest, there's just all of a sudden these camps of homeless people.
That did not exist before.
joe rogan
No, Los Angeles is staggering.
I mean, there's basically a small city inside the city.
Right now, they're bordering on 70,000 people.
tom papa
70,000.
joe rogan
70,000 people live on the streets in Los Angeles.
Just in LA. Just in LA. And because LA never really gets cold, it only rains 10 times a year, it's really not that hard.
If you have a tent, you can live outside.
tom papa
Yeah, and they do.
joe rogan
They do.
tom papa
Full-on tents, and they string them all together.
joe rogan
They create little villages.
Yeah.
The underpasses all throughout LA now are filled with tents.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
No, it's incredible.
It's fucking weird.
How much of it is...
I have no idea, but how much of it is mental illness and how much of it is just economic?
joe rogan
I'm sure it's all the above.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a bunch of different factors, but mental...
Well, mental illness for sure was what started out the wave of homeless people during the Reagan administration because they changed the criteria for people being able to be confined to a mental health institute.
They released a bunch of people.
They changed what constituted you being mentally ill.
Whereas before there were asylums, people could get help and counseling.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Maybe even get out.
But now, they just kick those people out.
Or then, they just kick those people out.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And I remember it.
Because...
How old are you?
tom papa
I'm 50. Yeah, I'm a little older than you.
joe rogan
I'm 52. So when I was...
tom papa
I'm really 52. Uh-huh.
joe rogan
When I was, I guess I was like in high school or right after high school when Reagan was in office, all that shit was going down and people were freaking out because all of a sudden there was homeless people wandering around the street.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And that didn't exist before and people were really angry.
They were like, these are mentally ill people and now they're just wandering.
And, you know, I lived in Boston and it was fucking really cold to see people wandering around Boston.
tom papa
There's definitely always a large portion of people that truly, truly need help.
It's not just that they're lazy or don't just go get a job.
There's major issues and there needs to be some kind of a safety net to help these people.
And you could just see it.
I mean, it's so weird to be...
It's popping up in LA in areas that it never was before.
joe rogan
Yeah, and even what is lazy, right?
Like, how many people that are that lazy that they're homeless?
How many people are mentally ill?
There's got to be a lot of them.
tom papa
A lot.
A lot.
joe rogan
Mental illness is a weird thing, right?
Because it's got such a stigma attached to it.
But I think...
What is wellness, right?
What's mental wellness?
Maintaining a beautiful state of mind, peaceful, relaxed, calm, thankful, filled with gratitude, loved, happy.
That's healthy, right?
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
Everyone experiences some mental illness, just like everyone experiences some physical illness.
But it's a matter of whether or not it becomes chronic, prolonged, and what it does to you and the people around you.
And some people have it way worse, just like some people have way worse physical health, right?
Some people have way worse mental health, and some people it deteriorates.
tom papa
And sometimes you could be on the right track, and some stuff happens to you, and within six months, you're in trouble.
You know what I mean?
It's a tricky situation to kind of maintain.
joe rogan
We're a lot more fragile than we like to pretend we are.
It's one of the beautiful things about being a comic is that we have a real community.
I mean, we have a really beautiful, supportive community of like-minded weirdos.
tom papa
It's really true.
It really is true.
I know.
joe rogan
Is there a place that other people get to go to, that we get to go to, like the store, where everybody's hugging everybody, everybody sees everybody?
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
So friendly.
tom papa
I was thinking about that.
I was leaving, and every time you leave a club, whether it's the store or the cellar in New York, everyone's always asking, are you going to be here tomorrow?
Are you going to be around?
Where are you going?
Everyone cares about – they want to see you again, and they want to know if you're coming back.
And I was like, that's such a wonderful thing.
This isn't an office.
This isn't people that are being made to see you every day.
But if you're leaving the store and we say goodnight, it's like, are you going to be here tomorrow?
You know what I mean?
It's like, are you coming back to the Playhouse?
joe rogan
Yeah.
People are looking forward to it.
We're real lucky in that regard, because I don't think musicians have a spot like that.
Where they get to go to.
They feel isolated if they're not with their band or their family.
You know, they're isolated.
tom papa
Yeah.
And it's interesting because L.A., it's the store's revival, I think, has given it a sense of place.
Because coming from New York, I felt when I was out here like, oh, comedians just roll into the Laugh Factory and then they get in their car and they're gone.
There's no...
joe rogan
Hangout.
tom papa
Yeah, there's nothing there.
And the improv had it.
For a while, then they messed with the bar and they moved it to the other side.
joe rogan
They ruined it.
tom papa
That was such a great place.
joe rogan
They ruined it.
tom papa
I know, and it hasn't got its mojo back.
joe rogan
How do you get a mojo back?
tom papa
I don't know.
joe rogan
Have you ever seen that photo of the improv where it's Jay Leno, he's got a pipe?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's hanging out in the bar, and everyone's in the bar.
The bar's packed with people.
tom papa
Packed, I know.
joe rogan
And it's this weird sort of photograph of capturing time.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And that was what it was like when I first started coming here.
There was basically two schools.
There was the improv school, and then there was the comedy store school.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And then there was the Laugh Factory, just like the stepchild.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It was weird.
tom papa
Yeah, it's always a little weird.
joe rogan
Because Jamie used to work at the comedy store.
He was a dishwasher there and he left to start his own comedy club.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You would, you know, the industry people would go to the improv.
There was all like the people that were angling to get on sitcoms and the people that were squeaky clean.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And then the deranged weirdos were all hanging around at the store.
tom papa
Yeah, because it's comfortable there for them.
joe rogan
But the new wave, the new revival of the store is very different.
tom papa
Totally different.
joe rogan
Very different.
tom papa
But it still has that...
Shadows of that.
joe rogan
There's some derangement.
tom papa
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
There's still some derangement there.
tom papa
Yeah, it's in the walls.
It's baked in the carpets.
You can't get it out.
You can't.
joe rogan
You'd never be able to build a place like that.
It would have to already exist.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Because if you try to build a place in 2020, you said, all right, we're going to build a new comedy store.
We're going to put it over here in Silver Lake, and we're going to, this is this and that and that, and we're going to make it like the comedy store.
tom papa
It would feel like a hotel bar.
joe rogan
It would go there, an Encino hotel bar.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Why am I here?
tom papa
Why is it echoey?
What's wrong here?
joe rogan
It seems odd.
tom papa
There's no soul.
Places have a soul.
And that place has a lot of soul, a lot of dark souls, a lot of mixed up souls.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's a weird point of contention with scientists and with people that are open to more...
Weird ideas.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That things have a feel to them.
That things even have a memory to them.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
I believe that 100%.
joe rogan
I do, too.
But if you talk to a brilliant scientist, they would dismiss that instantaneously.
tom papa
They think they're all brilliant, but they're not open to everything.
They're acting all smart with their little test scores and their lab coats.
But walk into an old hotel in Italy and tell me that you don't feel something there, that history.
I'm not saying it's all ghosts coming up and giving you belly rubs.
Why do you think?
joe rogan
Did they have that dismissive need to be a reductionist, to reduce everything down to its core components and dismiss any soul?
tom papa
It gives you control, right?
It gives you an idea that this crazy madness is somehow manageable.
I do it too in my life.
I organize my desk and I get my thing and I get my schedule and everything's okay.
This isn't chaos.
No, we're not all going to be...
This isn't completely out of my control.
I'm controlling this.
At least my pen's over there and my book's over here, right?
I would think that that's what it is.
And if you can't justify it with facts and numbers, then it doesn't exist.
Well, I don't know because certain places always seem to have a personality.
There's more going on.
Just because we haven't figured it out yet doesn't mean that that stuff doesn't exist.
joe rogan
No, I agree.
tom papa
Even this room, even this place.
You moved here, right?
The old place was the thing, but this feels different now than when you first showed up.
It's got stuff.
There's some memories.
There's some things that have happened.
There's like...
It feels comfortable here.
joe rogan
Well, we got this desk, too.
This is the same desk from the beginning.
This desk is soaked in with people's palm sweat and weirdness and good feelings and weird feelings.
tom papa
Yeah, and that wouldn't have come from something that wasn't wood.
joe rogan
Yeah, no, I agree.
And this is also reclaimed farmhouse wood.
tom papa
Yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah, this is all from some Russian farm.
This is all reclaimed oak.
All this shit is like 100 years old.
tom papa
Wow.
From where?
joe rogan
Russia.
We decided to get this wood.
One of the things, when I was building this, I said, can we get wood that's old?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And so we figured out that there was ways that you could get really old oak.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
And so, Eric, the guy who made all this, got this really old Russian oak and cut it all down and trimmed it and, you know...
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Everything's all, you know...
It's, like, got cracks in it and it's expanded and...
tom papa
It has personality.
joe rogan
It's alive.
tom papa
Yeah, it's alive.
joe rogan
If it's not alive, I mean, it's organic.
That's probably the best way to describe it.
Yeah.
tom papa
No, it has a difference.
Yeah.
And then, you know, if you want to go further and talk about the ghosts that show up, it's definitely a ghost, too.
Did I ever show you the picture of my ghost?
joe rogan
You have a picture of a ghost?
tom papa
Didn't I show you that?
Did I ever show you that, Jamie?
joe rogan
I don't think so.
You have a ghost?
tom papa
I have a ghost.
joe rogan
Where?
Your house?
tom papa
I apologize if I'm repeating myself.
joe rogan
I don't know if you are.
I don't remember the story.
tom papa
I got one of those Nest cameras.
joe rogan
Oh, the Nest cameras captured a ghost?
tom papa
Yeah, and I was at the Comedy Works in Denver.
unidentified
And the ghost comes with you to Denver?
tom papa
He opens for me.
You know, you want an opener that you can trust.
And I got an alert on my email the first time, like if it senses movement, it alerts you.
And I open it up and there's my dog.
Bella just in the thing.
I'm like, this is so cool.
I'm just like, I'm in Denver and I'm looking at my office.
And I thought, wouldn't that be a cool beginning of a horror movie?
If you get an alert on your phone and back at home there's a guy just staring in the camera.
Jesus Christ.
That's a good premise for a movie.
So then as I'm saying that to my opening act, who wasn't a ghost, I get another alert, and then this comes up.
Oh yeah, you can see it up there.
joe rogan
Okay.
Why do you have a picture of Chris D'Elia on your wall?
He's obsessed with Chris D'Elia.
We just found out.
Look at that, bro.
That's D'Elia.
Chris, keep away from Tom.
Something you might not know.
tom papa
I love D'Elia, but that's George Carlin.
joe rogan
That's a man with a wrench.
tom papa
Yeah, or a man in a trench coat with an Uzi.
This is 10 o'clock at night.
The only people home are my wife and my daughter.
This is on the second floor.
There is no shadow coming in the thing.
It's a ghost.
That's a legit ghost.
joe rogan
You don't think that's a person?
tom papa
That's not a person.
joe rogan
For sure.
tom papa
My wife is the only one in the house.
joe rogan
Hmm.
And you think that's a gun in his hand?
Could be a clipboard.
Maybe he's just a really annoying surveyor from the dead.
unidentified
Just like a few moments of your time to fill out this report.
jamie vernon
Did you have video of it?
Was it moving or something?
tom papa
No, but I have a video of another thing in the same office.
So I could show you.
joe rogan
This is weird.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It looks way different in this picture when it's small than it does when it's large.
tom papa
Which is scarier.
joe rogan
When it's large, it looks more like a person.
Can you make it even bigger, Jamie?
Can you make his image larger?
tom papa
I have a ghost in my house, and then we hear things.
joe rogan
Yeah, see, it does seem...
It seems like the light is behind him, right?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like the outside right edge of it is sort of highlighted, like there's a light behind him.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
Doesn't look like a gun, though.
tom papa
It is weird.
joe rogan
I mean, it could be a gun.
tom papa
And then I got this video.
joe rogan
Could be a Sawzall.
jamie vernon
Coming for bread.
joe rogan
Over here, ready to sauce some bread.
tom papa
He's got a big serrated, big bread knife.
joe rogan
Electric serrated chef's knife.
Chop up some bread, bro.
So, have you ever had an experience that you could say you think is probably a ghost to cause that?
tom papa
Everybody in the house has had a little something.
joe rogan
Is your house old?
tom papa
It's not old, but like poltergeist.
joe rogan
Right, it's over an Indian burial ground.
tom papa
You never know.
joe rogan
Dun, dun, dun.
tom papa
You never know.
Look at this video in the same office from The Nest.
joe rogan
You got a video?
Let me see what's going on.
What am I looking at here?
tom papa
Did the thing move?
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
Can you press play again?
joe rogan
Okay.
tom papa
Same camera.
What's that?
joe rogan
It's a bug, bro.
tom papa
It's a bug?
joe rogan
100%.
That's a bug.
tom papa
How do you know that's a bug?
joe rogan
Because it's a bug.
It's moving in front of the camera.
It flies around.
tom papa
It's doing loop-de-loops.
joe rogan
Dude, that's a bug.
It's probably a moth.
Oh my god, you're a little fruitcake.
You're a crazy person.
tom papa
That's not a bug.
joe rogan
You're a crazy person.
tom papa
Look how it's sailing.
joe rogan
Is that what they call a...
Is a fruitcake...
Fruitcake is not...
That's a gay person.
tom papa
That's a gay person.
joe rogan
But you can call someone a fruitcake if they're nuts, too, right?
Isn't it?
tom papa
Yeah, nuttier than a fruitcake.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
tom papa
Look how that...
Look how that goes.
That's no bug.
joe rogan
Look at that.
That is 100% a bug.
You're out of your mind.
That's a bug.
tom papa
Do you want to see...
joe rogan
I would bet everything.
jamie vernon
Air drop it to me real quick.
tom papa
Alright, I'll air drop it to you.
joe rogan
I would be all in that that's a bug.
tom papa
Alright.
joe rogan
That's not a ghost.
It's Tinkerbell.
That's what it is.
Your house is invaded by fairies.
tom papa
But that ghost...
I believe in ghosts.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
And yeah, I do.
And then my wife...
Yeah, we've all had little things go on in the house.
joe rogan
Like what kind of little things?
tom papa
My wife thought someone was standing right behind her.
She's doing the lawn.
She thought it was my daughter and turned in.
Nope.
jamie vernon
Oh, that's a bug.
joe rogan
It's a fucking bug, right?
Thank you, Jamie.
Let's watch this.
Let's watch this so everyone at home can laugh at how fucking crazy Tom Papa is.
Here we go.
tom papa
Well, if you first...
joe rogan
Let's watch the bug.
tom papa
Oh look, a fucking bug.
A flat paper, piece of paper.
All bugs look like a fortune cookie.
joe rogan
Dude, it's a bug.
Listen to me.
There's a thing that I got sucked into.
tom papa
Stop it!
joe rogan
Any bug!
tom papa
That's a bug.
joe rogan
That's a video artifact.
It's because it's moving very fast in front of the screen.
There's a precedent to this.
You have a low-resolution camera that's in front of your desk, right?
This is a security camera, low-resolution.
It doesn't take a lot of frames per second.
The reason why it's so elongated is because it's passing by this camera, and the thing is taking multiple exposures while it moves through.
There's a thing called...
Is that George Carlin behind your desk?
Is that what it is?
tom papa
Yeah, that's the Dahlia.
That's the Chris Dahlia.
It moved to the other side now.
joe rogan
It's George Carlin?
Is that who it actually is?
tom papa
That's George Carlin.
joe rogan
That's pretty cool.
You got that above your desk?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's a thing called Roswell Rods.
See how it looks all long like that?
tom papa
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
And Roswell Rods, there was this guy that me and Eddie Bravo back in the smoke too much weed every day days...
We were convinced that there were these things that were moving too fast for the human eye to see.
And there there's gelatinous jellyfish-like creatures that are shaped like a tube.
tom papa
Where'd you get this idea?
joe rogan
See how they look?
See those things?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Where'd you get the idea?
You'd seen it?
joe rogan
Well, I'd seen a video.
See that one, that black and white one where it showed right above your cursor, Jamie?
To the right?
Right there.
Click on that one.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That sort of iconic image of the Roswell Rod had me convinced, like, oh my god, there's these things in the sky.
And the only way you could capture them was with video cameras.
So they'd set these video cameras up, and they would get these things on video, and this guy made this documentary.
I think a couple of documentaries.
I think if you go to roswellrods.com, it's got a whole website there.
It is nothing but a video artifact.
There's a show called, one of those monster shows, one of those history channel shows or discovery channel shows, and they solved the mystery.
They set up two cameras in front of this fireplace, or in front of this campfire.
One of them, was it a campfire?
No.
I think it was actually a lantern, whatever it was.
They set up these two cameras.
One of them was standard resolution, and the other one was HD. So one of them captured multiple frames per second, like many, many, many frames per second, very high resolution.
And in that one, you clearly see bugs.
Clearly.
unidentified
You see a bug.
joe rogan
You see a bug.
A very easily defined bug.
And the other one that's low resolution and doesn't capture as many frames per second, all those images are stretched out and it looks like tubes.
So in the exact same place, at the exact same time, with two cameras right next to each other, you get two very different images.
One of them is all stretched out from the low resolution camera like your security camera.
The other one is high resolution.
You can see it's clearly a bug.
I guarantee you, one million percent, that is a fucking bug.
tom papa
Alright, I'll buy that one.
joe rogan
See if you can find that.
tom papa
I'm convinced.
But, that other one.
joe rogan
You're a ghost lover, bro.
tom papa
I am a ghost lover.
I love all of it.
I love being in a spooky old house, a nice old church, theaters.
joe rogan
The Comedy Store Belly Room scares me sometimes.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I've taken people up there.
I go, just stand here and tell me if you don't feel weird.
tom papa
In the belly room.
joe rogan
There's something about the belly room.
When you go above those stairs, it's just like there's something about that room, especially when there's no show going on.
It just feels like your body's telling you, get the fuck out of here.
tom papa
Right?
joe rogan
Let's get out of here.
tom papa
So what is that?
joe rogan
You're a bitch.
tom papa
You're in the stairs, not me.
joe rogan
I'm a bitch!
Me, I'm a bitch.
I'm talking to myself.
tom papa
The back one, off the main room, the dressing area, whenever you're back there by yourself, that's a weird feeling.
joe rogan
That's a sketchy spot.
tom papa
Yeah, that's a really weird feeling.
Isn't that where Kinison said he saw like a, didn't he see like a quarter move in the air or something?
joe rogan
He ate a pound of cocaine that night.
unidentified
That guy snorted so much coke, who the fuck knows what he saw?
Yeah, he's not a good scientist.
joe rogan
Well, Carla Bow, who was Guinness and sidekick, had a great story about getting kicked out of the comedy store.
And he told it on stage one night that he got kicked out, not of the comedy store, excuse me, kicked out of his home.
Got in a fight with his wife.
You know, get out, fuck you.
I'm going to the goddamn comedy store.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So he went to the comedy store, because I think he was working security at the store, so he had keys.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So he said, I'm going to sleep on this stage.
I'm going to make it one day.
I want to be a big famous comedian.
I'm like, this is my fucking stage.
I want to sleep here.
So he slept there.
tom papa
Main room?
joe rogan
In the dark.
Main room.
In the dark.
And he hears something in the background.
And he hears like a door.
Click, click.
And he like picks his head up.
Pitch black.
Can't see shit.
Hello?
Hello?
It's Carl!
Hey, I got kicked out of my house.
I'm sleeping here, if anybody's here wondering.
And then he hears chairs moving, clink, clink, clink, clink.
And he's like, what the fuck is going on?
Hello?
And then something grabs him by the ankle and pulls him off the stage, into the crowd, into where the seats are, crashing into the chairs.
And then, boom, the door shuts, and boom, another door shuts, and it's gone.
And he's laying on the ground.
In the middle of the main room with a bunch of knocked over chairs, something had grabbed his ankle and pulled him off the stage.
Or he did a lot of coke with Kinnison.
tom papa
He was, right?
He was another one.
joe rogan
But it's a great story.
tom papa
That is a great story.
joe rogan
He told it on stage one night at the store.
tom papa
I was like, holy shit, this is amazing.
Yeah, that's a good question.
I've never asked the audience if they feel weird in there.
joe rogan
No, I don't think they do.
They're drunk.
tom papa
They're drunk and they're watching a show.
joe rogan
They're having a good time.
tom papa
Yeah, they're having fun.
joe rogan
They're there for fun.
The basement feels weird.
tom papa
You had such a funny – I saw you like a week ago working stuff out on the main stage.
That whole thing about back of the hand.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
unidentified
Don't talk.
tom papa
I won't.
Don't give up my material.
I won't.
I know.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm working that.
tom papa
But so that whole area was so funny.
joe rogan
Oh, thank you.
unidentified
Thank you.
joe rogan
It's the most rewarding feeling ever when you have a chunk and it just becomes something over time.
tom papa
It's like a miracle.
joe rogan
It's like a plant.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
In the beginning it's like a couple of leaves and a stick and it's like, I hope this fucking becomes a tree.
unidentified
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
Now it's like a tree.
Now it's got branches and you can hang from it.
tom papa
Yeah, and like branches it goes off in these different places.
So fun.
It was fun to watch.
joe rogan
I can't imagine not doing that.
Yeah.
It's the most fun thing to do.
tom papa
I know.
Well, you get addicted to it, too.
When you don't do it, you start feeling like a weirdo.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
tom papa
Once you've done it a bunch, that's it.
Yeah, you start getting weird.
You go on vacation for a week, and you're like, what do I do?
Do I go to dinners now?
joe rogan
Walk around Thailand.
Do you guys have comedy out here?
No comedy at all?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Weird.
You brought a bag to Jamie, too.
tom papa
Oh yeah, I gave Jamie.
I know.
joe rogan
Jamie's gonna come back tomorrow with a little belly.
tom papa
It's a beauty.
It is a beauty.
joe rogan
A little bread belly.
tom papa
He doesn't have a toaster.
joe rogan
You don't have a...
What are you, a savage?
jamie vernon
I just didn't get...
I threw my old one away.
I was planning on getting a new one.
I just never did.
tom papa
He's a bachelor.
joe rogan
Well, good thing is you can get them anywhere.
jamie vernon
I know.
joe rogan
It's not like they're hard to find.
jamie vernon
I don't need a lot of toast either, so it's not a big deal.
joe rogan
Well, do they have them at Best Buy?
They have them everywhere.
tom papa
Amazon will probably have it at your house before you get home.
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
They deliver.
They have their own trucks now.
tom papa
I know.
They've made me so snotty.
I'm like, it won't be here today?
joe rogan
You know what's interesting?
It's like, we have this attitude about business, right?
Yeah.
It's nice when someone works hard and creates a business and becomes successful.
But it's not when they become too successful.
It's not when they are the business.
And then we think, that's a monopoly, we've got to break that up.
I hear a lot of people saying that they should break up Amazon.
tom papa
Yeah, they're too big.
It's too good.
So you want to wait five days for a book?
joe rogan
But the idea is you want other people to be able to open up bookstores.
tom papa
Yep.
joe rogan
I don't know.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
I'm not an economist.
Clearly, I don't even know.
I'm not a rocket scientist.
I'm clearly not an economics expert.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
I see the arguments, but I also see a little bit of hater in those arguments.
tom papa
Thanks for writing that quote for my book, by the way.
joe rogan
My pleasure, my friend.
tom papa
That was really great.
joe rogan
When is your book out?
tom papa
They can pre-order it now, but it comes out in May.
And you can pre-order it where?
Amazon.
unidentified
That's crazy.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
We're talking about Amazon and your book is coming out on Amazon.
That is nuts.
That's like a ghost.
tom papa
It's like they know.
Hey, back to the comedy store thing.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Wasn't there a story that someone came in, a waitress came in and all the chairs were stacked in a pile?
joe rogan
Yeah, but I never talked to that waitress.
Did you?
tom papa
No.
I don't even know if it was a waitress.
joe rogan
I've talked to people that have had weird experiences.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But you never know, man.
People are tired.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
It's the end of the day.
There's a lot.
The power of suggestion.
But then there's also the reality that that used to be Bugsy Siegel's nightclub and that people were murdered there.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Bugsy Siegel was a legit gangster and they killed people in that club.
tom papa
In that club.
joe rogan
Apparently they killed people in the basement.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's the word.
tom papa
Have you ever been in the basement?
Oh, yeah.
The podcast.
joe rogan
Podcast.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That doesn't feel creepy.
joe rogan
A little bit weird.
It feels a little weird.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was weird when I did Argus' show down there.
I was like, he might be haunted.
tom papa
Argus has been dead for years.
joe rogan
Argus has got some good fucking material, man.
tom papa
Argus.
joe rogan
Argus is a hustler.
He's always writing.
tom papa
It's no joke.
joe rogan
No joke at all.
unidentified
It's no joke.
joe rogan
I saw him kill the other night in the main room on a Saturday night.
I was like, he is fucking good, man.
tom papa
With jokes written like that day, that week.
unidentified
Yes.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
Like really current event jokes, but tight, good, solid jokes.
tom papa
He's no joke.
I follow him a lot.
I end up going on after him a lot there.
And I'm just always amazed.
Not like just from the headlines, like a late night show, this kind of worked.
Isn't that funny?
They're good jokes.
joe rogan
And you know, he's a guy that never threw in the towel.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's the thing about Argus.
I mean, he writes all the time for periodicals.
He writes jokes for newspapers and stuff like that.
And he runs, I think something crazy, like at least 10 miles a day.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
Yeah.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
He runs in Hollywood.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
He's out there, and the streets are his gym.
Really?
Yeah, we were hanging around the store one night, and Argus pulled in with fucking sweatpants on, all sweaty and shit.
I go, what are you doing?
He goes, I'm just getting back from a run.
He was out there running.
I was like, whoa.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Yeah, he's the real deal.
I mean, he's been at the store forever.
joe rogan
From the 70s.
tom papa
From the 70s.
joe rogan
I mean, he used to date Mitzi.
tom papa
He did?
joe rogan
You didn't know that?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He was Mitzi's boyfriend.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
There he is.
That's Argus Hamilton.
tom papa
Wow.
Look at young Argus.
joe rogan
Your son.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
That's Argus Papa.
tom papa
Argus Papa.
In a time machine.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, he's been swinging at the store forever.
Look at him there.
tom papa
On the Tonight Show, 1981. I was in 8th grade.
joe rogan
Oh my god, I was in 9th grade.
tom papa
That's crazy.
joe rogan
I was in high school.
That was my first year of high school.
He was already on the fucking Tonight Show.
I probably saw him on the Tonight Show.
You know, that was one of the things that inspired me to do stand-up, is watching Richard Jenny on the Tonight Show.
tom papa
Oh, Jenny.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Watching comics do stand-up on The Tonight Show was one of my favorite things.
When a stand-up would come on, I had a TV in my bedroom, like a 12-inch TV, and we had rabbit ears.
I'd get whatever was on regular network.
People don't even know what that is anymore.
tom papa
It's so crazy.
unidentified
Folks, there's a signal that's in the sky, and you can pick up the TV. If you put tinfoil on the end of it, you'll get an even better picture.
joe rogan
It's even better reception.
You had to fuck with the antenna, remember?
Like, you could stand there.
I would stand there sometimes and hold it in a certain way.
And you know when it was really great?
When it snowed.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
When it snowed out, you got great service.
tom papa
Yeah, the ionization or something.
joe rogan
It happens with cell phones, too, you know?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
When it snows out, you get better cell phone reception.
Yeah.
There's something going on with it.
jamie vernon
with it i still use one from time to time because in la depending on where you are there are a lot of free 4k hd stations that are going over just wherever you are through the air um and then i'm watching sporting events because that's the clearest it would be because it'd be better than what you're getting streamed online when a helicopter would go over your house the signal would break up oh yeah the waves yeah yeah how did it how did it affect your toaster
joe rogan
so the helicopter the whip would with the air and it would mess up the signal It's all waves, right?
unidentified
Wow.
jamie vernon
How weird, man.
tom papa
I remember we had this tiny little TV room at my grandparents' house and the men would sit in there on this tiny little couch and I'd have to hold the antenna.
So they could watch the game.
joe rogan
Well, I used to have a wrench to change the channel because the thing broke off.
Remember there was a little piece of plastic?
You would have to click, click, click to change the channels.
And the thing broke off.
So I'd get in there with a wrench and have to pop, pop until you change the channel.
tom papa
We used to keep a wrench on top of the TV. Remember finding the UHF channels?
joe rogan
Yes.
Like, this is crazy.
Benny Hill.
tom papa
Yeah, Benny Hill, Uncle Floyd.
Oh my god, just crazy people.
joe rogan
Uncle Floyd was the guy in New Jersey.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Most people don't know who he is.
I worked with him.
tom papa
You did?
joe rogan
I did stand-up with him.
tom papa
He's still out there, I think, now.
jamie vernon
Is he really?
tom papa
Yeah, my cousins, I think, saw him in some place in Wayne, New Jersey or something.
joe rogan
Dude, I did a Bob Gonzo gig with Uncle Floyd on the shore in Jersey.
Me and...
tom papa
He was the best.
joe rogan
Wow, there he is.
tom papa
Look at him.
joe rogan
Very nice guy.
tom papa
Bowtie, plaid jacket.
joe rogan
Me and Otto and George.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
That makes perfect sense.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Look at him.
tom papa
He's a handsome man.
joe rogan
I fucking bombed.
tom papa
You did?
joe rogan
Went on after him.
Ate shit.
tom papa
After Uncle Floyd?
joe rogan
Yeah.
They didn't want to see me at all.
tom papa
Would he do songs?
Or would he just do stand-up?
joe rogan
I don't remember.
I don't remember.
I believe he brought puppets.
tom papa
And he had a show on UHF that just ran forever.
joe rogan
Forever in New Jersey.
The Uncle Floyd show, Monday through Friday, 6.30 p.m., And he just kept going.
Cable Television Network of New Jersey.
tom papa
It's like Public Access.
joe rogan
Look at him.
Wow.
Yeah, it was like Public Access.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do you remember Public Access?
You used to be able to do your own show.
You could go down to the Public Access station.
tom papa
Yep.
joe rogan
I did it.
There was a guy named Larry Rapucci.
Me and I think Todd Parker were the ones.
We did, like when we were both, all three of us were open micers.
We did a show on cable access TV in Boston.
It was your own show?
Well, we just did a show.
I think we did one episode and I was wearing a dress.
I forget.
It was like a game show, like a dating show type of deal.
tom papa
Yeah, it's great.
joe rogan
We created it ourselves.
I'm sure it was terrible.
tom papa
Yeah, but you were doing it.
This was so great.
joe rogan
Yeah, and then one of my friends said, did I see you on TV wearing a dress?
I was like, probably.
unidentified
Probably.
tom papa
That's so great.
All these maniacs.
That's the only people that would do it.
Uncle Floyd, right?
And there was the porn one in New York.
joe rogan
There was a porn one?
Cable access?
tom papa
Yeah, kind of porny.
She was famous.
She was like legendary in New York.
joe rogan
Oh, I know who you're talking about.
tom papa
Right?
joe rogan
Well, Howard Stern had a cable access show, didn't he?
tom papa
No, he had close.
He had WOR. That's right.
Which is like Channel 9 in New York in the day.
joe rogan
That's right.
He had a weird gig.
tom papa
Weird like small show.
joe rogan
Back when Howard Stern was...
He was still huge.
But he wasn't huge like he became.
tom papa
Yeah, but he was popular.
He was big at the time.
joe rogan
He was big, but...
I'm trying to compare to somebody.
tom papa
I think it was before Private Parts.
It was like during Fartman, during that whole era.
joe rogan
It was before then even, I think.
tom papa
Jackie the Jokeman.
joe rogan
This is the girl, the porn girl?
tom papa
Yeah, that's her.
joe rogan
Robin Bird.
tom papa
Robin Bird, of course, of course.
joe rogan
That's right.
tom papa
Yeah, and she would do, it wasn't like, you know, you couldn't go complete porn, but look, she'd have, yeah, she would.
jamie vernon
Well, that's why I said I'm not making fun of it.
joe rogan
Oh, that's an SNL sketch making fun of Robin Bird.
tom papa
But she would have a lot of drag queens on and just talk about sex.
joe rogan
Wholesomely pornographic Robin Bird sued Time Warner.
tom papa
And she had a cool voice and she was just a mainstay.
joe rogan
Well, do you remember when there was a talk radio channel in LA? Like Tom Likas was on it and there was two girls that would talk about sex all the time.
tom papa
Oh yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, I forget.
One of them, I think, was in Playboy.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And they had Tim Conway Jr., Conway and Steckler.
tom papa
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
Remember?
tom papa
I don't remember this, no.
joe rogan
Yeah, man.
There was a channel, an all-talk radio channel.
And this was in the 90s, I remember, because I would listen to it when I was on the way to news radio.
I would listen to the radio when I was on the way to do the set.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
To the set.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
Like in the morning?
joe rogan
Yeah.
And in the afternoon when I was coming home.
tom papa
Oh, that's where you guys were?
Sunset and Gower?
joe rogan
Sunset and Gower, yeah.
I think we were at CBS Radford originally, maybe for a little bit.
I did Hardball at CBS Radford, and then Sunset and Gower.
I remember looking at all those other shows, like real shows, like shows on Friends.
Everybody has envy.
unidentified
It's funny.
tom papa
Always.
You're on a network show, thinking, oh, if only I could be over there.
joe rogan
And to this day, it's one of my fondest memories.
But there was a time, I remember, we were all sitting around the set, and we...
We kept getting moved.
We got moved no less than nine times over the course of five years.
tom papa
Nine times?
joe rogan
Yeah, we just kept getting moved.
See, the thing is with shows back then in particular, it all is about who owns the show.
If NBC owns the show, then you're golden.
They're going to put you in the great spot and hook you up.
tom papa
On their network.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're going to put you right after Friends or right after Seinfeld.
That's the sweet thing.
Yeah.
That was a Thursday night.
It was the sweet spot, baby.
tom papa
They used to call it the hammock spot, right?
Between Friends and Seinfeld.
joe rogan
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
Some people would call it that.
And it was...
We were all sitting around the set.
And one of the guys from the...
You know, someone brought in the ratings.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I'm like, fuck.
And then everyone was complaining and this and that.
And everyone was so down.
And I was like, hey, last time I checked, we're on fucking TV. Yeah.
I know we're like number 80th.
My friend Lou Morton, he was one of the writers who would come in every day with a shirt, with Sharpie, the number that we were on.
And one day he came in and said 88. I was like, really?
He's like, really?
Fuck!
tom papa
News radio?
It was 88?
joe rogan
Oh my god, we didn't do well until we got cancelled.
News Radio did great in reruns.
That's when people got a chance to see how funny it was.
tom papa
That's so weird.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
tom papa
That's so weird.
It's weird how many times that happens, too.
Like Arrested Development.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, a lot of those shows, it's all about where it is.
tom papa
Yeah, I know.
I know.
joe rogan
It's all about where they put it.
tom papa
Yeah.
So wait, so it was on that All Talk Radio, was that the guy who would, what was his name, who would, he would do all the voices, he would do all the characters?
joe rogan
No, he was on it too, though.
Phil Hendry.
tom papa
Phil Hendry.
joe rogan
Phil Hendry would, he would, and he still does it.
If you've never heard Phil Hendry, he's a goddamn genius.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Phil Hendry would answer the phone and then he would be the caller.
So he would call up with these ridiculous...
He would say ridiculous shit.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Where you're like, how can this guy be real?
And people would get so angry.
And then other people would call in.
Like, that man is so ignorant.
And then he would say, no man, you're ignorant.
I am standing here in front of the Journal of American Medicine.
And he would...
Just go on these, and most people were in on the gag.
tom papa
Yeah, right.
joe rogan
I wouldn't even say most people, maybe like 60% of the people were in on the gag.
It was great.
tom papa
It's so good.
joe rogan
I remember being parked in front of my house, like listening to it, like, what the fuck, man?
tom papa
What's he doing?
I know.
It was amazing.
joe rogan
I think he's still around.
tom papa
Yeah, I think he is.
I think you're right.
joe rogan
What does he do these days?
Does he have a radio show?
tom papa
He's probably working with Uncle Floyd.
jamie vernon
The Phil Henry Show.
joe rogan
The Phil Henry Show.
Is it on the radio?
tom papa
The YouTubes.
jamie vernon
Official HQ. Today's show.
It's about iTunes.
joe rogan
SoundCloud.
When I hear about...
Okay, that's good.
When I hear people that are still doing radio radio, I'm like, oof.
Do you have any other options?
Is there other ways?
Can you get out?
tom papa
I'm on SiriusXM right now.
joe rogan
That's different.
tom papa
That's different.
Oh, you mean like terrestrial?
You mean terrestrial.
jamie vernon
Yeah, like radio.
joe rogan
Like over the air radio.
tom papa
Yeah, I know.
But you know what?
There is something.
I was in a couple towns.
Columbus, Ohio, Denver even, where they have a strong terrestrial radio station that's popular.
joe rogan
Austin does.
tom papa
Austin still does.
joe rogan
Dudley and Bob.
tom papa
It's such a cool thing, and we've kind of lost something.
Because they're talking about the show that's coming to our town.
It creates a sense of community that you don't have in other things.
joe rogan
Right, and it's live.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's happening over the air.
tom papa
Tool's coming in this weekend.
We'll be there.
unidentified
You'll be there.
joe rogan
But it's also censored.
That's a real issue.
tom papa
Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan
It's not perfect.
I mean, look, one thing that we all owe Howard Stern a huge debt of gratitude is that he was sued by the FCC. Yeah.
Like legit?
Yeah.
He was sued.
He lost a shitload of money.
The media company...
What was the company that had his show?
Whatever the company was.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They were fined hundreds of thousands of dollars.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
For him, like, for almost nothing.
This was during the Bush administration.
They were going after him.
Do you remember that?
tom papa
Yeah, I remember it.
joe rogan
Dude, they went after him.
They went after him hard to the point where it was scary.
Where, like, you would hear about it, and you're like, what?
tom papa
Yeah.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
And you would hear about the things that he got fined.
See if you can find the things that Howard Stern got.
jamie vernon
The top five things he got fined for.
joe rogan
Yeah, let's pull that up.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Because listen, man, whatever anybody wants to say about Howard Stern, that motherfucker opened the door for all of us.
All of us.
For me, 100%.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay, let me see.
jamie vernon
It's like the first thing is the fart man stunt.
joe rogan
Well, he got fined for that on television?
That was on television.
tom papa
Because he showed his ass?
joe rogan
Okay, it's not really a surprise that he exposed his butt cheeks in a $10,000 gold spandex superhero costume, blah, blah, blah.
Where does it say he got fined?
Where does it say he got fined for that?
jamie vernon
I guess it's just his, I don't, it said his, oh, most outrageous offenses, I guess.
joe rogan
Oh, outrageous offenses.
jamie vernon
Sorry, hold on.
joe rogan
He was, he was.
tom papa
Aunt Jemima joke, I saw.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, there was a lot of stuff that he said, you know, that you would look at it today, like in terms of like a podcast, you'd say, oh, that's not even outrageous.
So here's the things that he got fined for.
Let's make that, look at the fucking numbers, man.
August 12th, 1993, $500,000.
Infinity Broadcast Network got fined.
jamie vernon
Oh, right, Infinity.
joe rogan
$600,000 and $500,000.
$600,000 December 18, 1992, and then August 12, 1993, $500,000.
So within a year, six months' time, even.
tom papa
Look, 90 to 2004. Look at that.
joe rogan
In one year's time, six months' time, they get fired $1,100,000.
tom papa
Jeez Louise.
joe rogan
Fucking insane, man.
tom papa
Wow.
I wonder what the offenses were.
unidentified
It's fucking crazy.
tom papa
Mostly language?
joe rogan
I'm sure it's language or subject matter or potty humor, you know.
Fuck, man.
Crazy.
I mean, we think about this today in terms of, like, what we get away with on podcasts.
tom papa
Oh, God.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
tom papa
Total freedom.
joe rogan
Total freedom.
And I think a lot of that was opened, that door was opened because of Howard Stern.
What does it say, that?
It says, playing the piano with his penis...
She recorded that Chris...
Okay, let me read this.
WJK... JFK FM in Washington, D.C. became the third Infinity Station to air the Howard Stern Show in 1988. Two months later, Ann Stalmel of New Jersey mistakenly tuned her radio...
To hear Stern talk about having naked women in for an upcoming show, she recorded the Christmas party broadcast on December 16th that featured a man playing the piano with his penis, a choir singing about gay sex to the tune of White Christmas and women being hypnotized to achieve orgasm.
Under the referral of her senator, this fucking crazy lady called a senator and congressman, Stummel filed a complaint with transcripts and a tape of the program.
The FCC reviewed the evidence and asked Infinity in October 1989 for an explanation as the material, in quotes, may have violated federal law by including indecent programming during daytime hours.
Isn't that funny?
Like, at nighttime, it's okay to get naughty.
tom papa
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Karmazin argued that the term patently offensive in its new ruling was vague, and the sexual references cited were no more offensive than daytime television shows, Geraldo, and Donahue, which use similar terms without repercussions.
His response was later rejected, da-da-da-da-da, FCC. Yeah, so they started fining him back then in 88. I would imagine that for terrestrial radio, a lot of that still holds, right?
I bet you could get away with a lot more now.
And because of him, because of Howard Stern, because of all the...
I mean, look, and he was under the gun, man.
He stuck to his guns.
He kept doing the same program.
I mean, it's a vastly different program now, and people criticize him because of that, but look, he's a different person.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You shouldn't have to do that old show.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
He should do whatever he wants.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
That's who he is now.
tom papa
Right, exactly.
joe rogan
You know?
tom papa
But I work for NPR. I do this live from here, which was Prairie Home Companion.
And I do this thing on that show.
And they have comedians on once in a while.
And they have musicians.
And they are really strict.
When a comic is about to go out there...
He's told 20 times what he can and can't say.
And it's like really, really, really strict.
And if you violate it, if you say the wrong thing, they get a fine for every station that it airs on throughout the network.
joe rogan
Oh, Jesus.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
So if they have 100 stations, there's 100 fines.
tom papa
Yes, exactly.
It's still really serious.
And that's...
joe rogan
Censorship.
tom papa
6 o'clock in the evening in the East Coast.
joe rogan
It's so ridiculous.
It's...
You know, look...
I get it if you have a program and it's a rated PG program and this is the way you want it because it's for kids and it's for families and stuff like that.
But for the government to step in, it's ridiculous.
It really is ridiculous.
And the fact that this was...
You know, people had to endure this for so long.
I mean, before Howard Stern, people have to realize there was no one.
There was no one like that.
There was Don Imus, who was kind of controversial in some ways.
tom papa
Yeah, he was.
joe rogan
And then Stern, who is just a totally different animal.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
He opened the door for podcasts, for sure.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
All these outrageous people doing podcasts, he made the roadmap.
tom papa
Right.
Yeah.
joe rogan
100%.
tom papa
We'll show you.
You can come over to this side of the street and no one's going to mess with you.
joe rogan
Well, and when they opened up the door, like what you're on, Sirius Satellite Radio.
Sirius Satellite Radio is also responsible for podcasts because they showed that you could do things uncensored.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They were the first place.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
First real outlet.
Sirius XM. Yeah.
Both of them together.
XM and then they merged.
unidentified
Right.
tom papa
So if you're subscribing to it, that means that you're willing to participate.
You're paying for it.
It's not like public terrestrial radio where if you just get in your car and it pops on.
joe rogan
Right.
So if you were listening to Opie and Anthony, if you were listening to Howard Stern, you could hear wild shit.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And then podcasts sort of came out of that.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And this podcast is directly because of Opie and Anthony, 100%.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, because they set it up the way their show was, and you've done it.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a hang.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You would go in there and everybody would hang out.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
It was real loose.
tom papa
Very loose.
joe rogan
Guys would come in, hey, Tom Pop is here.
What's up, Tom?
What are you doing?
I'm playing Caroline's and this and that, making bread.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And everybody would have a good time and just know there was no structure to it.
Yeah.
Whereas Stern had much more structure.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Yeah, a lot more bits, and we're going to go into this now, and that kind of thing.
joe rogan
And he was actually...
tom papa
A classic radio.
joe rogan
Yeah, he worked the board and shit.
He was moving the dials and stuff.
tom papa
Had writers.
joe rogan
Yeah, he had people working for him.
He was more structured.
Opie and Anthony was more of a hang.
tom papa
Right, yeah.
joe rogan
And then Anthony started doing live from the compound.
He had this house in Long Island, and he was with a fucking machine gun posing in front of a green screen, singing karaoke.
Yeah.
And I remember thinking, God damn, I wish I did that in my house.
I want that set up.
Because he had a studio set up at his house.
I was like, fuck, I need one of those.
Because he could just, anytime he wanted, just go live and start talking about things.
And it would stream.
And the internet was not that good back then.
All this happened.
tom papa
Just starting.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think he was doing it in 2006 or something like that.
tom papa
While he was still on the show.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
And they were giving him a hard time about it.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They were telling him you can't do that.
And he was like, but it only gets more people to listen to the radio show.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
It's not going to take anything away from the radio show.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Which I definitely agree with.
tom papa
They got fired, right?
joe rogan
A bunch of times.
tom papa
With that church thing?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
tom papa
With St. Patrick's Cathedral?
joe rogan
Yeah, Norton was just here.
tom papa
Oh, he was?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
tom papa
That's great.
joe rogan
He's the last guest.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
I love him.
tom papa
He's the best.
joe rogan
He's the best.
tom papa
He's so quick.
joe rogan
He's such a maniac.
tom papa
He's so funny.
joe rogan
He's hilarious.
tom papa
Oh, God.
joe rogan
Yeah, they got fired, and then he realized how quickly everything can go away, because he was like, fuck, I was out of money.
And I think they were fired for like two years.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
They couldn't be in the air in two years.
tom papa
That's right.
joe rogan
And so then they went to Sirius.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And they got hired by Sirius.
tom papa
And they had that thing where they would do both at the same time, right?
They started with Sirius, but they were back on Terrestrial.
Remember they would do the walk?
joe rogan
I did it with them.
tom papa
Yeah, you'd do the walk.
joe rogan
You'd do the walk.
We would broadcast with wireless microphones walking through New York City.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was like a block and a half away.
So you'd get out, they would strap you up with these wireless mics, and then we were walking down the street talking...
tom papa
It was on the air.
joe rogan
It was great.
I felt, I really felt fortunate to be a part of that.
Like, I felt like I was a part of history.
tom papa
I know.
It felt like there was, it was like, it was, that's where the action was.
For comedians, too.
They made it such a home for comics.
joe rogan
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And anybody, and you look forward to, like, there was never a time where I didn't want to do it.
unidentified
You know?
joe rogan
Right.
I don't want to get up in the morning and do this.
It was like, fuck yeah.
tom papa
Yeah, because you never knew who was going to be there.
Patrice would be in there, and Colin, and that was the best.
joe rogan
Even when my shows were sold out, I still made it in there.
tom papa
Yeah, of course.
joe rogan
I was like, I'm going in there, man.
It was fun.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It felt like it was a clubhouse.
And you also could be yourself.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's like, unabashedly be yourself.
Norton's in there talking about trannies.
You know, his experiences with Ladies of the Night and all this crazy shit, and Patrice was ragging on everybody, and Louie would be there, and Burr would be there.
There's us.
There's me and little Jimmy.
unidentified
Yeah, that's great.
joe rogan
Back in the day.
tom papa
Oh, there's Tom.
joe rogan
Look at Tom Segura!
That's right.
Look at Tom.
That's Fat Tom.
tom papa
Fat Owl Tom.
joe rogan
Tom was heavy then, boy.
unidentified
Woo!
joe rogan
And that was when we were...
2005, it looks like?
jamie vernon
I said that you were talking about the Silva leg break, and Oh, okay.
joe rogan
So that was later than that.
tom papa
Yeah, because that's not the XM studio.
joe rogan
Wasn't?
tom papa
Isn't it?
joe rogan
I don't know.
tom papa
Maybe it is.
joe rogan
It seems like it is.
It's Sirius.
tom papa
Yeah, it has that thing.
joe rogan
The glass wall behind it is where Sirius was.
But that, I feel real fortunate to be a part of that.
tom papa
It was cool.
It was a good time.
And Anthony, when he would...
Latch into something that was as funny as any of the comedians.
joe rogan
Oh, he was genius.
He still is.
He's still hilarious.
tom papa
Yeah.
I haven't heard his new thing very often.
joe rogan
Well, it's all the subscription.
He's decided to go to a complete subscription model so that no one could ever fuck with him anymore and pull him off of things And he has a loyal fan base.
It's compound media He actually has a whole bunch of different shows that people can get from compound media So you get a subscription and then you get his show and a bunch of other shows Right.
He would just get that glint in his eye when they get onto a subject and you just He was like a like a dog with a little toy and just knew he had something and There's a real benefit in what he does, in that the only people that are going to that are people that want to see his show and hear his show.
So he can say the most outrageous shit, and he's never going to get fired.
Because if people subscribe or they unsubscribe, it's probably a wash.
I'm sure he gains subscribers.
Maybe he'll gain subscribers because we're talking about it.
tom papa
But it was that interesting thing where it was the combination of those guys.
joe rogan
100%.
tom papa
You know what I mean?
They, over the years, had that rhythm.
And Obi would lob it in, and then just to see it all break up at the end was really sad.
joe rogan
Fuck yeah, it's sad.
They should come back.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, I don't think Anthony wants to.
I don't think he would ever want to again.
tom papa
No, it got pretty cantankerous.
joe rogan
Yeah, they don't like each other anymore.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it's too bad.
I mean, Anthony, on his show, they would shit on Opie.
tom papa
Oh, they would.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's like it got bad.
tom papa
Yeah, it got ugly.
joe rogan
Yeah, and then Opie got fired.
He was doing Opie and Jim?
Was he doing Opie Radio?
tom papa
Opie Radio.
joe rogan
And then he got fired for filming someone in the bathroom.
Someone was taking a shit, and he filmed them.
tom papa
Yep.
joe rogan
I don't know.
tom papa
Radio pranks gone awry.
joe rogan
Yeah, you can't do that.
tom papa
No, you can't.
It turns out you can't publicly shame people when they're shitting.
joe rogan
But if you came, like if I was taking a shit and you opened up the door and you go, hey, Joe, I'd be like, hey, you motherfucker, shut the door.
I would never think you're going to lose your job for that.
We would be laughing.
tom papa
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
So it's like, it comes from an innocent place.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It comes from a place that we would all do something like that.
tom papa
Sophomoric.
joe rogan
Yeah.
But it all depends on who it is, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, if you had a guy working for you, and you were the boss, and he was shy, and you filmed him shitting, then it would be...
tom papa
Totally.
joe rogan
Yeah, then it's like, hey, don't do that.
tom papa
No, there's your inner circle of where you know it's going to be allowed.
joe rogan
But it was like me, and I opened up the door when Jimmy was taking a shit, and I filmed him, you know, he'd be screaming and laughing at me, and it would be fun.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It wouldn't, you know, we're equals.
tom papa
Trans girls just spilling out of the stall.
joe rogan
Drop ceiling.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Oh, hey, Joe!
unidentified
Yeah, he's...
tom papa
Little lizard man in there.
joe rogan
But there was a thing that you could get on that show where it was just...
It was so wild and loose.
We had this...
Do you remember Stalker Patty?
tom papa
Yes.
joe rogan
Stalker Patty, we...
I had these pot breath strips, right?
And if you took one of these breath strips, it would literally put you in another dimension.
They were so goddamn strong.
I gave Segura one on a plane, and when it landed, he goes, I almost asked to be taken off the plane.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I go, you serious?
He goes, yeah.
I was like, I can't do this.
unidentified
Oh, no.
joe rogan
I go, come on, man.
Really?
I go, I took it, too.
He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He goes, I wasn't ready for that.
I wasn't ready for that.
He goes, before the plane took off, it had already kicked in, and I was on the runway, and I was saying, I gotta get off this plane.
I gotta get off this plane.
I can't do this.
unidentified
I gotta get off this plane.
tom papa
The worst feeling in the world.
joe rogan
And we were flying to Florida.
tom papa
Oh, the worst feeling.
joe rogan
So anyway, Stalker Patty was there and we gave her a regular Listerine breath strip and told her that it was a pot breath strip.
And so she started having these psychosomatic hallucinations.
She started believing she was hallucinating.
So Ari stood in front of her with his balls out of his pants.
He pulled his balls out of his pants and zipped up everything else, so it would just be a sack.
Just sack out.
And Ari was like, are you hallucinating?
Do you see anything?
And she's like, oh my god!
Oh my god!
He's like, what?
What's going on?
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
What's happening?
And she started seeing things that weren't there, and it was just so ridiculous.
tom papa
That's hilarious.
joe rogan
But again, you could...
tom papa
No fine.
joe rogan
Bear stalker Patty.
tom papa
And not getting fined.
joe rogan
That's it.
Stalker Patty trips out, yeah.
tom papa
Look at you.
Look at you.
What year is that?
jamie vernon
Well, I had hair.
tom papa
You had hair?
joe rogan
So it was probably 2009, 8, 7, somewhere around there.
I think I shaved my head 2011 or 12. But he's, you know, or she, you know, was a regular on the show and she was like a legitimate crazy person.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they would have her on.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, they would have all kinds of wacky people.
tom papa
That's from the Stern model, too.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
The Wack Pack and all that stuff, you know.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
He opened up the door for all that stuff.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean, they always had these wacky radio characters and it kind of kept that ball rolling.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
It's such a weird thing because they're like, you know, they're obviously there's a segment of the Audience is laughing at them, but they're so grateful to be part of the show.
It gives their life a little bit of a meaning.
joe rogan
The weird thing is, it's not that long ago, man.
We're talking about 15 years ago, the world was a completely different place.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
Completely.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
There was nothing like podcasts.
tom papa
But what's amazing, we started the conversation talking about the public access stuff with Uncle Floyd.
There's always been that thing for funny, odd people to try and get out there and do their thing.
You know what I mean?
It's endless.
It never stops.
It's inspiring.
There's this force to just be silly and go out there and try and communicate with other silly people.
And all this media is changing, but that thing, everyone's still Uncle Floyd and Robin Byrd.
joe rogan
I was having a conversation with my manager today and she was telling me there's now 900,000 podcasts.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
There are 900,000 ranked podcasts out there that are regular podcasts that are being done.
There's only 300 million plus people in this country.
Right?
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Whatever it is, $320 million?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
So there's almost like one in three people have a podcast.
tom papa
Oh my God.
joe rogan
Almost.
tom papa
It's so crazy.
joe rogan
January brings flurry of releases, pushing podcast tally past $900,000.
How many of those am I responsible for inspiring?
I need to know, because I tell everybody to do a podcast.
I would claim 200,000.
I think, no, it's probably like 100,000.
But even that, it's nuts.
tom papa
That's amazing.
joe rogan
It's a lot of fucking people out there making podcasts.
tom papa
It's the same as Twitter.
Everybody has a voice.
You can just have a voice.
You can just get a mic and you have one.
joe rogan
Yes.
And here's the thing.
If you're good, it'll grow.
It's really that simple.
If anybody wants advice on podcasts, the one thing I say is be consistent.
Just grind.
You have to grind.
Grind, put them out all the time.
That way people know they can count on them.
As soon as you disappear for a while, you lose people.
As soon as you take time off, you lose people.
tom papa
That happened on mine.
My buddy was off for a couple weeks and you could feel it.
joe rogan
Yeah, you lose your momentum.
And then you lose the people that are addicted to it, and then they find something else.
They go to this one or that one.
You see the number, 900,000.
God, that's amazing.
So many people.
Yeah.
Crazy.
tom papa
That is crazy.
Just out there talking about everything.
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
It's a different world, and you can use that world in a beneficial way.
People get things out of it.
In this podcast, I've had so many interviews with inspirational people, people like David Goggins and Cam Haynes and all these folks that have really inspired people to change their life.
Jordan Peterson.
I mean, so many people that have inspired people to take chances and change their lives.
tom papa
Don't you feel like we're in this cultural moment where people are actively trying to go further?
We're always doing that, right?
We're always progressing as a species.
We're always doing that.
But it seems like there's a bump right now.
There's an acceleration happening where people are really not only thirsty for it, but also participating in it.
And you can only think it's going to leap us further a lot quicker.
joe rogan
Well, it's definitely opening up conversations that people wouldn't have normally had.
And one of the reasons why it's so valuable right now is because this is a weird time for humans communicating because so many people are communicating electronically.
So many people are sending text messages and emails and not talking to each other for long periods of time face-to-face.
Like, you and I have been friends for years, but our biggest conversations we have are on this podcast.
tom papa
For sure.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, we have dinners together and stuff like that, but sitting in a podcast studio, you're locked in.
It's just staring at each other across a desk.
It's a very unusual way to talk.
tom papa
Yeah, and you're also freed up to ask each other things that you normally don't ask.
joe rogan
And we have Jamie to make sure that we're not talking shit.
tom papa
That's a little weird.
It's a little weird that he's leering over there.
joe rogan
He's crucial.
tom papa
He's shopping for toasters right now.
joe rogan
He's the world champion Googler.
People from Google want him to come in and teach them how to Google.
tom papa
I believe it.
joe rogan
I'm not joking, man.
unidentified
Oh, really?
joe rogan
People have asked him to come in.
Like, how are you?
What are you doing?
People watch the show.
What the fuck is he doing?
How's he doing it like that?
Jamie's the goat.
tom papa
Yeah, getting it done.
joe rogan
He's the greatest one-handed Googler in the history of the universe.
Like, you probably are one of the best one-handed typers ever, because you always have to type with one hand.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You've probably developed a new skill.
jamie vernon
I'm in a mindset when I'm here.
It's an energy.
You can't recreate it in other places.
joe rogan
Well, that's what's crazy.
It's like, you anticipate what we're thinking, and then you pull up the thing before.
I go, can you pull up a...
Oh, there it is.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
It was weird.
He had my ghost up there before I was done talking about it.
jamie vernon
When I type in Tom Pompa ghost, it comes right up.
joe rogan
Here's the problem with ghosts.
Those ghost shows.
tom papa
Well, yes.
joe rogan
Those ghost shows are bullshit.
tom papa
100%.
joe rogan
One of those guys got in trouble recently because he made a ghost book and he plagiarized a bunch of shit.
Really?
Like blatant copy and paste.
tom papa
Yeah, geez.
Theater ghosts are some of my favorite.
joe rogan
In theaters?
tom papa
When you go, right?
When you go perform in these theaters, and you talk to the people, I always ask, do you have a ghost?
Yeah.
There was a little boy I was in, where was I? Oshkosh.
Oshkosh.
And there was an old theater, and the guy who runs the theater said, you know, we've had, there's legendary, they keep talking about, there's like three ghosts in the thing, and they were having a cocktail party upstairs in this like cocktail lounge off the balcony, and his son, this guy's son, ran into the balcony, and he's talking with people, and he goes, I gotta go get them.
And he goes in there, and the kid's leaning over the balcony, talking to the stage, having a conversation with someone.
He's like, Yeah.
No.
Oh, this is my dad.
He wants us to go down there.
Who wants us to go?
That guy.
He wants us to go down there.
There's no one down there.
joe rogan
The thought about that with little kids is that little kids have not dulled all of their senses with the pressures of the world and all the other information that we carry around in our heads and all of our ideas of what's real and what's not real, and that little kids are open more, and then they can see things.
Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers was talking about that with his son, that his son is like...
I think it was Flea.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But his son is like...
Tuned in to spirits, in a way, that he was looking at and was like, maybe it's that these kids are not, like, maybe we all have that in us, but it's blunted by pressures and life and the lack of sleep and responsibilities and relationships and work and fear.
Yeah, and everything.
And also, like, we define how the world is, right?
We get it in our head that these are the parameters for the world.
This is how the world works, and that's it.
Go to work and fucking button up your fucking sleeves.
tom papa
Right, this is my beliefs.
My belief system is going to carry me through.
joe rogan
Yeah, this is what it is.
It's a fact.
It is.
tom papa
That's why it's good to smoke it up once in a while.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
tom papa
Kick the doors open.
joe rogan
That's one of my favorite things about pot.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It makes you aware of how weird things actually really truly are.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
How weird things are.
tom papa
When you don't do it for a long time and then do it, which is like my schedule, it makes you look at everything, all your structure that you've formed over the last whatever amount of time, and you're like...
You see it just from another perspective.
It just makes you look at it and be like, oh, well, that's kind of unnecessary.
That's kind of douchey.
That's fun.
That's on.
joe rogan
Easily opens those doors, too.
Just woof.
tom papa
Hey, when you're saying you're reading all those books about the Native Americans and stuff, did they talk about their spiritual stuff?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, certainly they had a lot of spiritual stuff, but there's a lot of peyote rituals.
They're really into peyote, and they actually, particularly it was important at the end of the Native Americans' free range, when they all got conquered and moved into reservations, then the peyote rituals became increasingly important for them.
tom papa
Oh, really?
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Why then?
joe rogan
Because they were fucking filled with despair.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Dude, the stories of the reservations are one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever read anywhere about anything.
Like, massive amounts of people dying from starvation and disease and, you know, it's horrible, man.
People losing, like, most of their kids, most of their family members, and, you know, the amount of people that are left...
You know, like Native American reservations, I don't know how many people live on them, but I don't think there's any growth or population boom.
It's not like there's a bunch of, you know what I mean?
Like the Native American cities are growing inside these reservations and they're becoming more and more affluent.
It's not happening.
tom papa
They're destroyed.
joe rogan
Oh, the fucking alcoholism, too.
And it talked about that in Black Elk, Life of an American Visionary.
It's the most recent one that I'm reading.
They're talking about just the alcoholism and that they were converting all these Native Americans to Catholicism and how they just hated being Native American.
They felt so terrible about it because their identity was just so disparaged by...
Just being conquered and moved into reservations and extreme poverty.
And they would see these other people.
And they'd be like, these people look happy and healthy.
And then they're forcing this religion on them.
tom papa
The most heartbreaking when you'd see those old photos where they were putting them in traditional dress.
Like making them all of a sudden wear suits and ties and shoes and hats.
It's so sad.
joe rogan
It's fucked up, man.
I always knew it was fucked up.
But the genocide of the Native American people is one of the most overlooked parts of our history.
We kind of brush it aside.
We're aware of it, but we don't discuss it all the time.
You know they killed like 90% of them with disease?
tom papa
Intentionally?
No.
joe rogan
No, just exposure to Europeans.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah, like some tribes, 90% of them were wiped out because of smallpox and all sorts of other diseases.
tom papa
Oh, jeez.
joe rogan
They had no defense for it.
tom papa
Yeah, just these people show up covering stuff.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
It's awful.
How do you...
I have a daughter that's going to school.
She's going to be going to college.
And so she's learning all about the world.
All the darkness of the world.
All you have to do is read history.
And not just our history...
Globally, it's a nasty, nasty tale.
And I feel, though, that I want to prep her before she goes even deeper when she goes away to the schools and starts learning about it even more intensely.
You can tell, like, I don't want her to lose hope.
You know what I mean?
It's a very, very dark, upsetting thing to learn about.
But you have to kind of realize we're at least muddling through it.
We are progressing.
We are conscious of that history.
So don't lose hope.
You know what I mean?
I'm afraid to send her out there without that armor in a way.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Don't lose hope is huge, right?
tom papa
Huge!
joe rogan
Find good people, they're out there.
Find nice people, they're out there.
Especially, you know, I think people are very scared today.
And I think this is a pivotal time with human beings.
There's so much change, right?
So much change culturally, and there's so much change, you know, just in the world.
tom papa
Well, you're shifting, and it's also tearing down, like, all the institutions that carried us for a certain amount of time, right?
Those things are no longer really important in the world.
Like, churches have fallen off, and sense of community, just the town squares, you know, are isolated, and so it's all of this shift.
And that's, whenever there's that shift and change in anything, even in your own life, when you have to move, all of a sudden your world is a little rocky and shaken.
It's like, it feels like The planet is about to move.
You know what I mean?
It's like we're all packing our boxes.
joe rogan
It doesn't feel like there's any official structures anymore that are valid, like news.
Where do you get your news?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Who's more full of shit, CNN or Fox?
It's like, where's the news coming from?
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
There's no one place where you can say, like, these guys aren't biased.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
This is not, you know.
tom papa
This is the one guy that is telling it straight.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's no place like that, right?
So how do you know what's really going on in the world?
Yeah.
And also, no one's watching.
Those goddamn news shows are dropping off.
Late night television, dropping off.
Everything's dropping off.
No one's watching.
No one's paying attention to that shit anymore.
So all these structures that used to be our primary places to go for entertainment and being informed.
And one of the weirdest things is people rely on folks like me.
Like, hey, don't do that.
I'm not the place to go.
You want to hear some people talking shit, you can come to me.
But if you want to be informed, listen, I'll guide you in the right direction.
I'll tell you where I go, or I'll tell you who to listen to, but don't listen to me.
I have way too much on my plate, and I'm not really paying that much attention.
tom papa
Yeah.
You had that light shone on you last week, right?
Yeah.
joe rogan
Adorable.
tom papa
You know, it's not funny, but we always talk about, you know, at some point they're going to do it.
At some point they're going to say evil stuff.
Everyone gets their turn to try to be knocked down.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Right?
joe rogan
Well, that's what cancel culture is all about, right?
And it's this thing you're looking to just only look at the worst aspects if someone exaggerate those, magnify them, and ignore everything else.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
The thing about it, though, is it's really difficult for people to swallow now, because they know what that is.
You know, most people who listen to the show...
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, there's been 1,500-plus episodes.
They know what the fuck it actually is.
tom papa
Well, that was what was cool about...
All of the comments in defense of you in the show, it was like this person had never heard the show.
You can't listen to this show without understanding the openness and the diverse...
The acceptance of diverse points of view.
joe rogan
Also comedy.
You can't take comedy and take it out of context and put it in quotes, take a section of a bit and use it as evidence of homophobia or transphobia or anything else.
You know, and it's disingenuous, and they don't realize that by doing that, they're just making people distrust them more.
That's all they're doing.
You're not going to convince someone that, hey, you know this show that you love, that you listen to this guy all the time?
He's actually evil.
He's actually plotting against gay people and trans people and Yeah, it's ridiculous.
And everybody else that's protected and sacred in this world.
tom papa
Yeah.
It is amazing, though, that comedy and comedians have kind of filled the void of a lack of grown-ups around.
You know what I mean?
Like it used to be Walter Cronkite or that evening news, and that's where you got it, and then you saw Johnny Carson or whatever doing the funny stuff.
joe rogan
Things need to be mocked.
tom papa
They do, including us.
joe rogan
Everything needs to be mocked.
It's one of the great things about comics is we mock each other.
We're always busting balls.
We're always talking shit to each other.
tom papa
It's hilarious.
It's the best.
joe rogan
It's fun.
tom papa
Right, exactly.
joe rogan
And we actually enjoy it.
You know, I think it'll all turn around.
It'll all come back around.
I think what we're experiencing right now is just a shifting of our focus as a culture.
And these things that used to be important, like sitting around the radio listening to the evening news, that shit is non-existent anymore.
Nobody sits around the radio trying to find out what's happening in the world, like the whole family listening to the radio.
Bet when they were doing that, they couldn't have imagined anything different.
tom papa
Yeah, but I do crave, and my wife craves, a connection.
It's like, what are you listening to?
What are you listening to when you're going out?
Oh, I'm listening to This American Life.
Well, I'm listening to Jordan Peterson.
All right, so I guess we're not going to have something to talk about tonight.
But we should both listen to this one so you can come back and talk about it.
We're both thinking about the same things.
It's kind of a cool sense of community.
unidentified
Do you guys have a show that you both watch?
tom papa
We've been watching Schitt's Creek lately.
joe rogan
What's Schitt's Creek?
tom papa
Schitt's Creek is hilarious.
unidentified
Really?
tom papa
You don't know Schitt's Creek?
joe rogan
No, I've never heard of it.
tom papa
It got picked up by Netflix.
It's over.
I think they've shot the last or they're shooting the last.
But Eugene Levy, Levy, Levy, him and his son Dan created this show about a rich family who loses their fortune and ends up in this small town.
joe rogan
Oh, I think I have heard of this.
tom papa
It's so funny.
joe rogan
Have we ever talked about that?
tom papa
Catherine O'Hara is on it, and there's two other actresses that are just killer.
They're just such defined characters.
It's a very small show.
It all takes place in this little shitty town, Schitt's Creek, and they're these affluent, arrogant kids and parents.
It just hits.
The jokes are just fantastic.
Fast and cutting.
unidentified
Nice.
tom papa
It's such a good show.
It really is good.
joe rogan
All right.
tom papa
It's the first thing that we've watched in a long time.
We haven't been watching anything for a long time.
joe rogan
So it used to be on Pop TV and then Netflix bought it?
tom papa
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
All right.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Schitt's Creek.
tom papa
And that's father and son created it together, and they're just so damn funny.
joe rogan
Wow.
tom papa
Look at those eyebrows.
Look at the matching eyebrows.
And Catherine O'Hara is just on point.
She's so damn funny.
joe rogan
Oh, all right, man.
Good.
I'm excited.
tom papa
And they're kind of short.
They're easy to digest.
joe rogan
I was into Mrs. Maisel, but the last season, it started off kind of clunky.
I haven't gotten back to it.
tom papa
Yeah, I feel like I should watch that one.
joe rogan
I watched the first two seasons.
I really enjoyed it, but it's hard.
It's one of those things where it's so close to home because it's stand-up.
tom papa
How's the Lenny Bruce?
joe rogan
He's very good.
tom papa
He's good.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's very good.
He's very believable.
tom papa
I was just talking to Kevin Pollack.
He's on that show.
joe rogan
Yeah.
No, he's the dad.
He's great.
tom papa
He's really great.
I listened to a Lenny Bruce thing recently.
What's it called?
It's on YouTube.
It was an album that someone put out about Lenny Bruce, the killing of Lenny Bruce.
unidentified
Oh.
tom papa
And it talks all about some new stuff that I'd never heard, like his young daughter talking at the time and talking about the court case, similar to the Howard Stern thing, like the case just that devoured him, that and the heroin, which is also a suspect of were they trying to get rid of this guy kind of a thing.
But it was a very interesting little documentary, audio documentary about...
The fall of Lenny Bruce.
And you talk about just...
It's almost cliche how legendary that story is.
But just to be reminded of how completely alone he was.
Just having people show up in a comedy club.
Not even a club.
Just a nightclub.
Because there were no comedy clubs.
That he was that brave to keep going.
To keep speaking.
While the whole...
Government was coming to squash him like a bug.
joe rogan
They were arresting him.
tom papa
The bravery of that is astounding.
Astounding.
joe rogan
And like Howard Stern, he opened up the door to all of us.
tom papa
Completely.
joe rogan
That guy opened up the door to all stand-up.
He created the art form, essentially, because it wasn't the same when he left.
It was different.
tom papa
It was different.
joe rogan
Before him, it was jokes.
tom papa
Right.
It was just jokes.
Right, exactly.
joe rogan
And it became cultural commentary.
tom papa
Right.
Talking about religion, talking about the government.
joe rogan
Sex.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Love.
tom papa
All of it.
joe rogan
Loss.
tom papa
Here is an interesting thing.
I was like, so what happened when he died?
So he dies in, I believe, 67 or 69. And I was like, so what was the next thing?
They were really clamping down on him.
It was only four years later that Carlin's case for The Seven Dirty Words came up.
unidentified
Hmm.
tom papa
It was that close.
joe rogan
Wow.
tom papa
That in my head, I always thought that was a much different era.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
That Carlin was much later than...
But it was only four years later that they were still attacking.
So he kind of picked up the fight in a way.
unidentified
Hmm.
tom papa
Is that remarkable?
joe rogan
It is remarkable.
Yeah, Carlin was arrested several times as well.
tom papa
Right, he was pulled off stage.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Just for speaking.
joe rogan
And again, what is that, 40 years ago?
Not that long ago.
tom papa
No.
I know.
Amazing.
Like, if they could see what was going on any night, in any club, anywhere, they would be astounded.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
If you could bring Lenny Bruce to the comedy store on a Friday night, he'd be like, holy shit!
tom papa
What the hell?
joe rogan
Yeah, he'd be like, I gotta up-up my game.
I'm not offensive enough.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You can't get arrested at all anymore.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, watch Brian Holtzman.
tom papa
Yeah.
unidentified
People are like, whoa.
joe rogan
You can say so much.
tom papa
Yeah, you can say anything.
Where are the cops?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
But it is pretty cool.
You can get it on YouTube.
Listen to The Killer.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
Cool.
Yeah, I've listened to a bunch of his old stuff.
It's weird.
It's weird how comedy is...
It has a lifespan.
tom papa
It really does.
joe rogan
It really doesn't work.
tom papa
It doesn't.
joe rogan
Culturally, things are so different that the taboos have been broken to the point where what he's saying is it's normal.
tom papa
It's like a museum piece.
You listen to that album, Carnegie Hall, Lenny Bruce Carnegie Hall?
joe rogan
Yeah, I've heard that.
tom papa
Yeah.
And it's cool to hear the way he talks and the stuff and his style and all that, but as comedy to make you laugh, it just...
joe rogan
It doesn't work.
tom papa
It doesn't work.
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
It's just a different...
joe rogan
He had a couple of bits that are still valid.
He had one bit that he did about gay people where he's like, it's illegal to be gay, right?
So what do they do?
They take you and they arrest you and they put you in jail with a bunch of men who want to have sex with you.
unidentified
I mean, it's valid today.
joe rogan
I mean, obviously it's not illegal to be gay anymore, but how crazy is that?
Gay sex was in many places not legal then.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Which is fucking insane.
tom papa
Mind-blowing.
Mind-blowing.
joe rogan
Insane.
tom papa
In our lifetime.
joe rogan
In our lifetime.
tom papa
So weird.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So strange.
tom papa
So the guy who plays in Miss Maisel, he's good?
joe rogan
Very good.
Very believable.
Dustin Hoffman's the best Lenny Bruce, though.
Did you ever see Lenny?
tom papa
Yeah, of course.
joe rogan
He's fucking amazing.
And I think that's the best version of an actor portraying a stand-up comedian.
tom papa
Right.
What about Tom Hanks in Punchline?
unidentified
What about...
joe rogan
Sally Fields crushed him.
I didn't buy it.
I mean, I guess Tom could have seemed a little bit like a comic.
unidentified
He did.
tom papa
He seemed like an 80s comic.
He pulled it off.
joe rogan
Like a Wayne Potter type guy.
tom papa
Yeah, it wasn't him that was the problem with that movie.
It was the stuff around it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
The locker room and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, the locker room was hilarious.
joe rogan
They all met in the locker room.
tom papa
Yeah, go up and do their thing.
joe rogan
Oh, the locker room.
Imagine if you had to get changed to do comedy.
Like, what?
Why do we need a locker room?
Imagine if a store just put in a locker room.
Hey, guys, we have a locker room for you now.
Like, what?
tom papa
That'd be so great.
joe rogan
Why are we taking off our clothes?
tom papa
Putting on my show clothes.
joe rogan
Do you guys have cameras here?
What the fuck are you doing?
tom papa
Yeah.
This is my outfit.
joe rogan
Yeah, the scenes of the actual clubs themselves were interesting because I saw Punchline when I was an open-miker.
I think Punchline came out in 89?
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Is that correct?
I bet it's earlier.
joe rogan
88, 89. I think 88. 87. It had to be around 88. Is that it?
87?
October 88. October 88. Nice.
Okay, so that was right when I started.
Because I started August of 88. So it was right after I started.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And I remember thinking, wow, I was like...
It was so romantic just to be involved in this thing.
And I'd only been doing it for a couple months at that point in time, so just signing up on Sunday nights for open mic night and getting my feet wet.
But I remember watching that movie.
I loved everything about stand-up then.
I was so excited about comedy.
You know, there's a movie about comedy now.
Ooh, so exciting.
tom papa
And were you disappointed or were you into it at the time?
joe rogan
I didn't think it was very funny.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
I didn't laugh.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
There was no moments in that movie where I was like, ha ha ha.
tom papa
Yeah, but I always remembered the part that excited me was when they were in the diner in the middle of the day.
Like, she comes to Tom to get jokes and stuff, and I was just like, how cool is that?
They're not in an office.
It's the middle of the day, and they're just at a diner.
That seems so exciting to me.
unidentified
Freedom!
Freedom!
joe rogan
Just show up and go to the movies with your friends.
I used to love that.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I used to love families and responsibilities.
I'd love to call one of my buddies up.
Hey, what are you doing, man?
Want to go to the movies?
Fuck yeah, let's go to the movies.
tom papa
Yeah, whatever you want to do.
joe rogan
Hanging out with your buddies at like 2 in the afternoon at the movie theater.
Nobody else is in there.
tom papa
The best.
joe rogan
Laughing.
tom papa
The very first day that I quit my day job, I was in New York, and I finally was a full-time comedian.
And I walked up to Central Park with my buddy, and it was packed on a Tuesday, just packed with people.
And I remember being so disappointed, like, this should only be comedians right now.
How do all you people have off from work?
I'm like, oh, other people can figure it out, too, to get a day off.
joe rogan
Well, when you're in LA and it's like 2 in the afternoon and you're on the road and it's fucking jammed up with people, like, where are you people going?
tom papa
Yeah, why isn't everybody at work right now?
joe rogan
You should all be in the office, you fucks.
tom papa
What's wrong with you?
joe rogan
That is like one of the more attractive aspects of comedy to people is that freedom.
But that's also, that freedom was one of the reasons why so many comics are so irresponsible and lazy.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's because they have that freedom.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That they don't actually sit down and work.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like how many of us have actually, like you've written a book, Norton's written a couple books, how many comics have actually written books?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Fucking, that is the real test of whether or not you have discipline, right?
tom papa
Right.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Write a book.
tom papa
Yeah.
No, to sit in there every day and do it, but...
joe rogan
How long did your book take?
tom papa
This is my second book.
joe rogan
That's right.
tom papa
And they take, they take about a, I don't know, I guess like all in probably two years.
joe rogan
Do you enjoy the process?
tom papa
I love it.
joe rogan
Or do you enjoy the completion of it?
What do you enjoy more?
tom papa
The process of it.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
Yeah.
I love...
There's something about the routine.
When I can get locked into the routine of this is how I... It's almost like it creates a...
The routine creates a space for your creativity in a way.
So if I get up at 7 and roll in there with my coffee and sit at the desk and open it up and go to work and know that this is happening now, good or bad, that routine, it's like going to church.
It's like this is the time when this happens.
This is the time when the writing is going to happen.
It could be a week of horrible days, but then all of a sudden a couple great days happen.
I just love that discipline of it, and then just going to work on it, and then playing with the words, and then revising it, revising it, revising it.
I love it.
That part of it really surprised me.
That this is a very comfortable, cool place to be, and I could spend years here.
joe rogan
That's great.
That's a great thing to be really into doing, because it's so productive.
Do you write stand-up like that as well?
Do you sit down and write stand-up in front of your computer?
tom papa
Yeah, not from whole cloth, like not from out of the blue, if I can double up my cliches.
But like mostly I'll rewrite.
I will rewrite stuff.
Like if I try something out on stage tonight and then have an idea, listen to it or just remember it, and then I'll kind of noodle around with it and see if I can go further with it actually writing.
Yeah.
joe rogan
So where do you come up with your premises?
Are they just random observations throughout the day, random thoughts while you're driving?
tom papa
Yeah.
Yeah.
Something somebody says, some ridiculous thing that you saw somebody do.
Yeah.
That's, you know, on your mind, stuff that's kind of on your mind.
And then, like, if I'll get, like, we were talking about the tree, like, all of a sudden you're getting that joke that I was watching the other night.
You start getting that thing down, and then your mind almost starts to think about it all...
In its downtime.
You know what I mean?
And then all of a sudden you start to pop it up.
But I have lost so much thinking I was going to be able to remember it that I just started writing more.
I just started putting it down.
And it's been a real savior because...
There'd be whole things like that were valuable that I just let go because I just didn't remember or got into the routine of performing it.
But if I could have it down, I was able to keep track of it and go further with it.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think that's gigantic.
I use a couple different programs, but one of them is called Scrivener.
tom papa
Right.
You told me about that.
joe rogan
What I really like about that is I set up my premises on the left side, so all my premises, and then when I click on them, it shows me the whole bit.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I just started doing that over the last three.
three four years yeah like really writing out all the bits and then having them categorized and yeah because apparently there's a way to set up microsoft word like scrivener which would be way easier because microsoft word is my preferred way to write because they're saved also on an app on my phone right so when i write bits on microsoft word write it and then i'll just go to my phone right and pull up my microsoft word so you're in the club just take the phone out you can see
Yeah, exactly.
tom papa
That's huge.
joe rogan
It's huge.
tom papa
It's huge.
Pages does that too.
joe rogan
Well, also on my iPhone, the notes application.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
So I'll copy and paste shit into notes.
tom papa
Yeah.
Now, I really feel like, and I think that's what writing the books did.
Was it made me realize the real value in getting it down.
It could always get better.
I would get it really good to a point.
But then realizing this stuff, even though it's killing, could even be better.
joe rogan
Yeah, always.
tom papa
I could always, right?
And the moves, the changes that happen at that stage are so small.
That, to me, is like the writing.
That's the smallness of it.
joe rogan
Yeah, those little pauses, those little beats, those little extra, one extra word.
tom papa
Yeah, right.
joe rogan
Boom.
tom papa
Just a change of a word.
unidentified
It's a giant pop.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, I have that feeling, too, when I watch someone, someone will say something, just one word, and I'm like, ah!
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
There's something about one thing that shifts it.
tom papa
Yeah.
Oh, man.
You know who was really making me laugh yesterday in the car was Cat Williams.
joe rogan
Oh, he's hilarious.
tom papa
God.
joe rogan
So crazy.
tom papa
He doesn't get spoken of enough because he's so crazy, I think.
I agree.
People just hit you, right?
And he was just going off about the election and Trump running and all of this kind of stuff.
And I don't care what side you're on.
This was – he would just destroy you.
He was just – the way he talks and when you talk about the words, that's why it popped into my head.
He pulls words out that I would never think of using and he just says them in his style.
God, is he a naturally funny guy.
joe rogan
I don't know if it's natural, but he's definitely funny.
When he was more active, when he was really touring a lot, like during the Pimp Chronicle days, he was one of the best in the world.
tom papa
One of the best in the world.
joe rogan
He was a monster.
Go on stage to destroy.
tom papa
All that Michael Jackson stuff.
joe rogan
Oh my god, that stuff was so good.
tom papa
It's so good.
joe rogan
And dangerous at the time.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
Because people hadn't come to grips with this idea that Michael Jackson was a pedophile.
tom papa
He did not care.
joe rogan
Especially not in the black community, and he was out there just fucking swinging for the fences.
tom papa
It's so good.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
tom papa
Oh, he really makes me laugh.
joe rogan
He's a straight up killer, but I think...
For most folks, the pressure of that high-level celebrity is overwhelming.
It just fucks with you.
It just fucks with you.
It could wear you down and break you down like it did with Chris Tucker.
It did with Martin Lawrence.
It does a lot of these great comics.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
A lot of guys.
tom papa
It's a weird thing.
joe rogan
It's fucking very weird.
The pressure of that many people coming to see you, that many people relying on you, that many people waiting for you to fail, that many people hating on you.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then he, clearly there was some substances involved with him.
tom papa
Sure.
joe rogan
He had some shows where he would just go on stage and start yelling at someone in the front row and then leave.
tom papa
Yeah, right, exactly.
joe rogan
He did that, I think it was in Oakland.
He just went on stage and someone heckled him.
He's like, fuck!
Fuck you, bitch!
And it's like going crazy, this one guy.
tom papa
I'm not doing this tonight.
joe rogan
And then got off stage, and there's fucking, you know, there's 5,000 people there to see him.
unidentified
I was like, what?
joe rogan
You can't just leave?
tom papa
Do you feel that pressure, the bigger this gets?
joe rogan
Yeah, I do, but I also feel extra love.
Like, it's happy.
Yeah, it's nice, man.
tom papa
That's good.
joe rogan
But I'm also aware that other people have fallen into these holes, you know?
And I've benefited from the fact that these people have kind of carved this path and showed me where the holes are, you know?
And also, I'm definitely crazy, right?
unidentified
Sure.
joe rogan
I definitely have some...
Mental health issues.
But I'm also very thoughtful in meaning that I think a lot about things.
And I spend a lot of time alone just trying to look at things like an outside observer.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Trying to look at things like, how would I, if I was me but not me, look at me and what would I say to me?
Right.
How would I tell myself to gain the proper perspective?
unidentified
That's interesting.
joe rogan
How would I evaluate my situation correctly?
Right.
How would I proceed?
What would I say?
Man, I wish I had done this.
Why don't I do that now?
You know, that kind of shit.
tom papa
That's good.
So much of figuring stuff out is being conscious of it, right?
Being aware that I've got a problem going on or I have to, right?
That means you're thinking about it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
The thoughtfulness with everything, with your diet, with your family.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
As long as you're constantly thinking about it, you're giving yourself a chance to take the right...
joe rogan
Yeah, you can correct your path.
tom papa
Yeah, right, right.
joe rogan
You can correct your mistakes and correct your path.
And there's no way you're not going to make mistakes, especially if you're putting out as much content as I do.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's no way.
And doing as many shows as I do, it's...
So I've accepted that.
And I've also accepted that these moments of adversity, I always come out on the other end a better person, a better comic, a better everything, a better human.
tom papa
And the cool thing is, too, that you'd have to change exactly who you are for it all to turn.
Because it's not that a network is going to tell you that you did something wrong and take the wrong stance or misinterpret you.
It's really your audience.
It's that relationship with them, and they know what you're about.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
That's the beautiful thing about not having a job job.
tom papa
Right.
You could say something that you even didn't mean, and as long as your fans who know and love you give you a pass, then it's going to be okay.
joe rogan
And I've definitely done that.
I've definitely said some shit I shouldn't have said.
tom papa
Yeah.
When you said that you wouldn't eat my bread, that was really weird.
joe rogan
I'll eat it right now.
You brought a knife.
You set it up.
tom papa
That was Jamie's doing.
joe rogan
This is one of our sponsors.
This is a Kamikoto knife.
This is a beautiful Japanese knife.
Look at that bitch.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Basically a sword.
tom papa
Is it heavy?
joe rogan
No.
I mean, it's really well made.
unidentified
These are dope kitchen knives.
tom papa
It's not serrated, though.
joe rogan
Do you have good kitchen knives?
jamie vernon
I figured I could cut bread, though.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Cut the shit out of some bread.
Do you have a good knife set at home?
tom papa
I've got good random knives.
joe rogan
Oh, well, I'm going to hook you up.
tom papa
Yeah?
joe rogan
Because, yeah, they sent me a couple of these.
tom papa
Ooh, look at that.
That is a good knife.
joe rogan
Oh, fuck yeah, baby.
unidentified
Look at that.
joe rogan
Right through.
Nice.
unidentified
Nice.
jamie vernon
Look at that bread.
tom papa
Look at that glorious bread.
Come on!
joe rogan
Fuck this carnivore diet.
Let's get in there, baby.
This is Tom Papa bread.
Come on, son.
tom papa
I want to start...
I want to try eating meat for...
Jamie and I were talking before this thing.
We're like, yeah.
joe rogan
Could you do it?
tom papa
I don't...
Yeah, I think I could.
Is it hard to do?
Oh, thank you.
joe rogan
It's not hard.
Pardon our chewing lady.
tom papa
Do you get bored?
joe rogan
Mm-mm.
tom papa
You're okay with it?
unidentified
Mm.
Mm-mm-mm-mm.
tom papa
Come on.
joe rogan
When did this come out of the oven?
tom papa
Um, four hours ago.
unidentified
Oh my god.
joe rogan
That was so damn delicious.
jamie vernon
Let me get a piece of that peel.
joe rogan
How big do you want?
jamie vernon
Just like half of that.
tom papa
That is good stuff.
unidentified
Jamie's drooling over here.
joe rogan
Drooling over here looking at this.
tom papa
I always forget to bring butter.
jamie vernon
He did one time, but...
joe rogan
This is fucking fantastic without butter.
tom papa
Come on.
unidentified
Mmm.
joe rogan
There's something to be said for pleasure, right?
tom papa
Yeah, a lot.
joe rogan
Just like a balance between having too much indulgence and pleasure and no discipline and having too much discipline and no pleasure.
tom papa
Right, exactly.
But like you said, you felt so sick after going to Disney.
unidentified
Yeah, but I ate ice cream.
joe rogan
I ate...
What else did I eat?
tom papa
I bet your kids are happy when you go off the leash.
joe rogan
Oh yeah, they love it.
tom papa
Right?
joe rogan
Well, they just love Disney.
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
The new Star Wars ride is off the charts.
tom papa
Is it?
joe rogan
It's so crazy.
tom papa
What's it like?
joe rogan
Well, it's 20 minutes long.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
Mm-hmm.
tom papa
That's awesome.
joe rogan
Dude.
tom papa
That's amazing.
Because most of the time, they rip you off with a three-minute ride.
joe rogan
Dude, this is 20 minutes long.
From the moment you get there, and the scale of it is insane.
There's one time where you get off of this thing...
And you get transported into this area where all these stormtroopers are.
And it's a hall.
It's enormous.
And there's like a hundred stormtroopers standing there.
And behind them is space.
There's these huge 4K screens that show space.
And you really feel like you are on a starship in space that's filled with stormtroopers.
It's fucking bananas, man.
tom papa
Wow, that's amazing.
The ride is crazy.
So you're flying on a...
joe rogan
Well, you get in, you move in, you go for a flight.
See all those wheel marks on the ground?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's no tracks.
Everything is run by computers.
The whole thing is run by computers.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Bro, it's amazing.
I mean, it's just the most intricate and advanced ride Disneyland has ever done by far.
tom papa
Wow, 20 minutes.
joe rogan
Every step of the way, you're like, I can't even believe that they did this.
I mean, it's 100% next level.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
Look at the fucking detail of this place.
You go into this and it seems like you are in a real spaceship.
tom papa
This probably doesn't even do it justice.
joe rogan
Oh no, it doesn't.
My jaw was dropped the entire time.
unidentified
I was like, wow!
Wow!
tom papa
And is it more than just the ride?
Is it like a whole section?
joe rogan
Well, it's a bunch of different interactive experiences.
There's people, there's actors.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They're, you know, like, they're stormtrooper folks and rebellion, whatever, the bad people.
jamie vernon
Yeah, they talk to all the people while they're walking around and they ask you, like, are you here to fuck, are you a rebel?
They mess with little kids and they just keep it going the whole time.
tom papa
That's awesome.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're a member of the Resistance.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
I haven't seen the new movie.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Not so good?
joe rogan
The movies have become Disney-fied.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't say that in a good way, because Disney makes some awesome shit, but it's just...
tom papa
Commercial-like feeling?
joe rogan
It's just fake.
tom papa
Right.
No heart, no soul again.
joe rogan
It seems like it's gone through a corporate diversity filter, where they're making sure that let's have women run this, and women generals, and this and that.
unidentified
Right.
tom papa
Yeah, they're hitting all the...
Right, right.
It's by formula.
joe rogan
But the movie feels like it's formulaic, too.
I haven't seen the very latest one, but the ones before that.
It's like, they don't feel...
They don't feel special.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, I know this is not the best example, but Tarantino movies still feel like Tarantino movies.
That motherfucker still knows how to make a real movie.
Like, you get out of his movie and you're like, whoa.
tom papa
Well, it feels like it's made by him, right?
unidentified
Yes.
tom papa
It doesn't feel like it's made by a company.
joe rogan
It would be impossible to make Once Upon a Time in Hollywood with a corporate structure.
tom papa
Right.
Or without him.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It would be impossible.
jamie vernon
Did you hear his acceptance speech for the best screenplay?
unidentified
No.
jamie vernon
He's like, usually you'd thank other people at this point, but I wrote this by myself, so...
unidentified
Well, that's why it's so good.
tom papa
Oh, I've got a good movie for you.
Yeah?
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
This was, I was talking with my buddy Steven Soderbergh, who Digest not only is a great director.
unidentified
Name dropped.
joe rogan
Did you just drop a name?
tom papa
I did.
But to give credibility to this selection.
His movie of the year was Give Me Liberty.
It's a small independent film, made in Milwaukee with a lot of regular people.
It follows this one guy, young guy, whose job it is to drive people with disabilities around in a van through Milwaukee, through a public service.
And it follows him through one whole day.
It's so good.
It's such a good film.
You really gotta see it.
The performances are crazy good.
You don't know who's an actor and who's not.
It's just so well done.
It really makes you feel like it's the total opposite of what you're talking about, like that big committee kind of a corporate thing.
To see something like this, like you could just feel the filmmakers' hearts and souls pouring into the movie.
joe rogan
Those movies that are really big, you also have to think of how much money is invested in them, right?
tom papa
Oh, huge.
joe rogan
And if they go bad...
It's a giant financial...
tom papa
And go bad means, like, not make a billion dollars.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, or lose money, like Dr. Doolittle.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Right?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think that movie's probably going to lose money.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Which is real dangerous, coming from a guy like Robert Downey Jr., who's amazing, who's so incredible in The Avengers, and that movie made fucking kajillions of dollars.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
All those movies are amazing.
And then he goes and does this kid's movie, and it really doesn't do well.
Those are dangerous.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Those movies are like, oh, Jesus, we're on thin ice.
Get back to the shore!
tom papa
Right.
Dangerous for who?
For the actor?
joe rogan
For the actor.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
For the production company.
For everybody.
What if they come to the production company a year later and say, hey, we have a new idea for a movie in the theater or the studio.
And the studio's like, hey, fuck you.
We lost a hundred million dollars on you, you fuck.
tom papa
Right.
jamie vernon
See all the issues with cats?
joe rogan
That was probably the biggest financial disaster of the year, right?
jamie vernon
They pulled it back to redo it, and they're going to re-release it.
So many people are making fun of it.
joe rogan
Are they going to do it again?
jamie vernon
Yeah, they left.
The visual effects team only apparently had like nine months, and they left watches on people that didn't cover their hands up.
All sorts of bad stuff.
tom papa
I saw it with my kids.
My daughter's like, we have to see...
jamie vernon
Was it good though?
Like fun to watch as a disaster?
tom papa
No!
Because in the beginning, like we thought...
My daughter's like, we have to see the worst movie of the decade.
How do we not go see that?
And we were the only ones in the theater.
It was really brutal.
And at first...
joe rogan
How bad is it?
tom papa
It's bad.
But it's so bad...
joe rogan
Is it good?
tom papa
No, it's so bad it's not good bad.
unidentified
Wow.
tom papa
Yeah, it's just bad.
joe rogan
It's so bad it's not good bad.
tom papa
No, like in the beginning you have a laugh and it's like, alright, I can see why this is gonna suck.
And then by the end of two hours you're like, no, I've just been hit in the head with a shovel.
unidentified
It's not bad.
tom papa
Yeah, it's really bad.
unidentified
Wow.
tom papa
And you're seeing all these people that have been in other things who are just not talking about it, you know, like Judy Dench and it's bad.
joe rogan
There's some other movie that came out recently that someone was saying was as bad as The Room.
Oh, really?
See if you can find that.
That was released?
Yeah, there was a whole article about it saying that this movie is so bad that it's good.
jamie vernon
I didn't even finish typing it and it auto-completed.
joe rogan
What is it?
tom papa
Now he's showing off his skills.
jamie vernon
No, it finished up and says The Room is the worst movie ever made in Hollywood or something.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
A movie as bad as The Room.
tom papa
The one that shocked me that everyone said was so bad was Will Ferrell and John C. Reilly in that new one, right?
Was it true?
jamie vernon
It was a Canadian movie so bad it rivals The Room.
joe rogan
Yeah, what is that?
jamie vernon
It's called Ryan's Babe.
I don't know.
Never heard of it.
joe rogan
Is that a recent article?
jamie vernon
Yeah, it's from four days ago.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah.
People are telling me, you have to see this.
jamie vernon
That's from 2000, that was that movie.
So it's not a new movie, but someone just discovered the trailer online.
tom papa
But I figure you put Will Ferrell and John C. Reilly doing anything, and I'm in.
joe rogan
Right, should be.
tom papa
And people really rebelled against it.
joe rogan
That girl's hot, though.
tom papa
This looks pretty good.
joe rogan
She's in her underwear running around for some reason.
tom papa
Perfect.
joe rogan
Oh, this is terrible.
tom papa
Yeah, it's pretty good.
joe rogan
This looks really bad.
tom papa
There's some rough edits in there.
joe rogan
So how are they going to redo Cats?
jamie vernon
I don't know.
tom papa
Are they going to re-edit?
I think they already did.
I think they re-edited it and then...
joe rogan
But if they re-edit it, everyone's going to know that it sucked so bad they had to re-edit it.
tom papa
I've never heard of that.
Ever.
joe rogan
Never.
A movie gets released and they're like, you fucks!
tom papa
They're like, okay, we'll fix it.
We'll be back in a week.
joe rogan
How much money has Cats lost?
jamie vernon
What?
It almost happened with that Sonic movie.
They just didn't put it out.
They put out a trailer and the internet freaked out.
And they're like, oh, okay.
We'll redo it.
And they spent a bunch of money redoing it.
joe rogan
Sonic the Hedgehog?
jamie vernon
Yeah.
It's coming out now.
It actually looks a little bit better.
They gave him better teeth or something.
joe rogan
Dude, it's hard, man.
Making a movie has got to be the most brutal thing ever.
tom papa
So hard.
joe rogan
I've had guys in here that have poured their heart and soul into a movie for years.
Like Motherless Brooklyn.
tom papa
I know.
I know.
joe rogan
Was it good?
tom papa
I don't know, and I love him, and I love the subject matter.
joe rogan
God, he loved that movie, man.
tom papa
He really did, and he put such heart and soul into the soundtrack, and I haven't seen it.
joe rogan
Yeah, I've seen it.
tom papa
You know, sometimes...
joe rogan
Jesus Christ, Kat's headed for a $100 million box office loss.
What the fucking shit?
tom papa
Oh my God.
joe rogan
Oh my God.
tom papa
I just keep thinking about them all being at craft services and backstage.
This is pretty great, huh?
unidentified
Have you seen that girl?
tom papa
Eating some celery sticks just as a cat.
joe rogan
Rebel Wilson is committed to losing weight.
She's lost a ton of weight and people are mad at her.
tom papa
Are they really?
joe rogan
Yeah, they're mad at her.
They like her being big.
They like her being big because she's big and I'm big and everyone's big and it's okay to be big.
And I heard it's healthy to be big.
And so people are criticizing her for losing weight.
unidentified
Oh, come on.
joe rogan
They're criticizing Adele as well.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah, they said Adele, they're angry that Adele lost weight because they love the fact that she was this huge musical superstar and she was obese.
tom papa
So she wanted to take care of her health.
joe rogan
She's trying to be healthy.
tom papa
Live a little longer and then...
joe rogan
You're turning on us.
tom papa
Well, she became a role model for certain people, I guess.
joe rogan
Be a role model for you to get healthy.
We can all get healthy.
unidentified
Yeah, come on.
joe rogan
Stay away from Tom's bread.
Eat only meat.
tom papa
Just don't eat it all the time.
You just don't eat this all the time.
joe rogan
Well, I didn't gain any weight this weekend.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I didn't gain any weight.
I ate all that shit.
And then I fasted Sunday night until Monday.
I went to yoga Monday morning.
Didn't eat until right before my first podcast.
And I didn't gain any weight at all.
tom papa
It's great.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it's accumulative.
tom papa
Moderation, moderation.
joe rogan
It's eating like shit.
But what was interesting was the pains.
Back pain, knee pain.
tom papa
What is that?
joe rogan
It's inflammation.
It's inflammation.
Your body does not want to have to process all that stuff.
And they think that may be the root for many people of a lot of causes of pain and discomfort is just inflammation-heavy diet.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Sugar.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Sugar is the big one.
tom papa
So if you get all of that out of your system, your body can, what, go to work on the stuff it has to go to work on?
joe rogan
Yeah, you get all that shit out of your system and your body doesn't experience inflammation from your food.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And if you're eating food that, like, you know, grass-fed beef, you know, or in my case, elk, you know, or yeah, I mean, I'm sure vegetables are not bad for you.
I just did it to try to find what, so I just did it to try to find out what it's like to only eat meat.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
When you have no carbohydrates, one of the things that's most amazing is that there's no crashing.
You would eat and you don't feel any different after you ate other than the fact that you don't feel hungry.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Like, you don't crash.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
There's no ups and downs and peaks and valleys.
My energy levels were amazing.
tom papa
Really?
How quickly?
joe rogan
Extra energy.
tom papa
How quickly?
joe rogan
Two weeks in.
tom papa
Two weeks in.
joe rogan
Two weeks in, I noticed I felt amazing.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
And I was shedding weight.
I was shedding a lot of weight.
I think I was like seven pounds down two weeks in.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
Now I'm...
12 pounds down, 12-ish, something like that.
I was 193 this morning.
I was weighing about 205 before I started this diet.
unidentified
Really?
Yeah.
tom papa
Man, oh man.
joe rogan
I feel a lot better.
Like a lot better.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
tom papa
So what would you recommend?
Would you recommend people just do that?
Or do you think you moderate that?
joe rogan
I think for people who have an autoimmune disorder, I do believe there are certain people that have an adverse reaction to some plants, some foods.
That's what an elimination diet is all about.
It's like trying to find out what are the things that bother you.
But for me, what I did is I just took a lot of multivitamins.
I took a bunch of different vitamins and nutrients and supplements on top of this carnivore diet.
So I'm only eating meat, but then I'm taking all the essential vitamins and amino acids, and I'm also taking fish oil.
So I'm covering all my nutritional bases.
But I'm not doing it with food.
I'm not doing it with plants.
I'm only eating grass-fed meat or elk.
And then on top of that, I'm taking in fat from bacon.
I needed fat because elk in particular is very lean.
If I'm only eating elk.
If I eat grass-fed beef, I'm fine.
But with things like elk, you really do need some extra sources of fat.
tom papa
If you don't have fat, would you start to feel bad?
joe rogan
Yeah, your body doesn't like it.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Your body does not want a low-fat diet with low carbohydrates.
There's a thing called rabbit starvation.
Have you ever heard of that?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
People got that in Antarctica.
I think it was Antarctica.
In the cold climates where they were shooting rabbits and eating rabbits and they were literally starving to death even though they were eating all these rabbits because rabbits have no fat on them.
So they're only eating this lean protein.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But with no fat at all and you start feeling like shit.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Different explorers have found that too.
When they were living in places and trying to eat only the foods that they could harvest off the land, they were eating animals.
They had to take in fat.
unidentified
If you don't take in fat, you feel really bad.
tom papa
So you could balance it.
Would you say maybe 80%?
joe rogan
This is what I would say.
Try it.
Just try a carnivore diet.
Try it straight out.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And I think you'll be amazed at how good you feel.
Now, here's the thing.
Is that a honeymoon thing?
What is it like if you extend that to 90 days or 365 days?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're going to feel like shit eventually?
Is it going to start breaking your body down?
I don't know.
I only have experience in 30 days.
But in my experience in 30 days, it was enormously beneficial.
tom papa
You did say something in your post about a explosive diarrhea.
joe rogan
It needs to have a new name.
Diarrhea is not strong enough for what I was experiencing.
tom papa
For real?
joe rogan
Yeah, it was like someone was tapping into an oil well.
tom papa
I have pictures.
So why was that happening?
joe rogan
Well, I talked to Dr. Sean Baker.
He wrote a book on the carnivore diet.
He's a physician that's a carnivore diet advocate.
He's been eating this way for two years.
tom papa
Two years?
joe rogan
Yep.
And he seems to think that it has to do with the colon adjusting to the fact your body doesn't have any dietary fiber.
So you're not taking in any rice or bread or anything that's going to absorb the water.
So your body's like, what do I do with all this liquid?
unidentified
It's going out the asshole!
tom papa
How long did that last?
joe rogan
Around two weeks.
tom papa
Two weeks?
joe rogan
Two weeks of rocket fuel coming out of your booty hole.
tom papa
Ah, jeez.
joe rogan
But if you get through it, you get through it.
And Tom Segur is going through it right now.
tom papa
He is?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He sent me a text the other day saying, this diarrhea is astounding.
unidentified
Ha!
tom papa
Oh, no!
joe rogan
Oh, astonishing.
unidentified
That's what he said.
Astonishing.
tom papa
Oh, no.
jamie vernon
It's not coffee, is it?
Because you guys both drink coffee.
I'm just asking just a general question.
I mean, some of you guys both intake a lot.
joe rogan
Bro, it could be all kinds of liquids.
Whatever kinds of liquids are coming out of your butt, it's not normal.
tom papa
I was really getting excited about trying this.
joe rogan
But here's the thing.
At the end of that, it all goes away.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
I mean, at the end of two weeks, my body adjusted, and now it's not a problem at all.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, not a problem at all.
Now...
tom papa
So what's breakfast?
joe rogan
Steak.
Or eggs.
Sometimes like this morning it was steak.
Yesterday morning I ate six eggs.
tom papa
Right.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Just woof those down.
Lunch?
joe rogan
I don't eat lunch.
tom papa
Don't eat lunch.
joe rogan
Just usually two meals a day.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And then the second meal is usually steak.
tom papa
No, the steak.
joe rogan
Either elk or a beef steak.
tom papa
I think I've asked you this before, but whenever I think about these diet things, I always picture my family looking at me while they're eating pasta or eating...
Do you feel like an outlier at dinner with your family?
joe rogan
No, they knew what I was doing.
They made fun of me and shit.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It's no big deal.
Oh, what are you eating?
unidentified
Steak?
joe rogan
Eat steak again?
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
My kids are hilarious.
tom papa
Yeah, that's what I always...
My kids mock me too.
unidentified
That's good.
joe rogan
That's healthy.
tom papa
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, they didn't mind.
tom papa
Yeah?
joe rogan
Nobody bothered.
My wife didn't care.
Everyone knew I was doing it, so it was okay.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Your wife's not like, come on, have ice cream with us.
joe rogan
No.
No, boy, that'd be a problem if she was.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
If it looks so good, like, damn, ice cream looks good.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
No.
It was an eye-opener.
But here's the thing about that kind of stuff.
You kind of have to commit.
Like if you just say, I'm going to try to eat healthier.
It's too loosely defined.
tom papa
I know.
I know.
I was doing the intermittent fasting and lost a good amount of weight.
And then it just kind of like plateaued.
And I feel like...
I'd like to be, you know, like 10 pounds lighter.
And it's...
I'm working out.
I'm doing all that stuff.
But I feel like it needs something to shock my system to go to a...
joe rogan
Nothing will shock your system like this carnivore diet.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Including your butthole.
But you will lose a lot of weight.
I lost...
I mean, I lost a legitimate 12 pounds of fat.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
Just fat.
My face got thinner.
unidentified
Yeah.
You look thinner.
joe rogan
Like when I was washing my face, I would feel...
Actually, it feels a little fatter now because I went through Disneyland.
tom papa
Yeah.
Some Disney chunks.
joe rogan
Disney.
unidentified
I hate ice cream.
joe rogan
I hate a lot of dessert.
tom papa
And you just had bread.
joe rogan
Actually, not really any fatter, but joking around.
Maybe I'm a little swollen.
tom papa
No, you look leaner.
joe rogan
For real.
I was getting fat.
I was developing a gut.
We did this weigh-in thing, and so many people mocked me.
I was getting a gut though.
My stomach was like hanging out.
And also when we came in here to do that, it was December 23rd and my family was in town and we had eaten like pigs that day.
tom papa
Right.
unidentified
I was considerably bloated with food as well.
joe rogan
Because it was nighttime.
We had a nighttime podcast.
It was like 10 o'clock or something like that.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Pretty late podcast.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
When we all took our clothes off and got on the scale.
So I knew I was probably going to do the carnivore diet anywhere, but that was like, yeah, let's just do it.
Let's just do it.
tom papa
Let's go.
joe rogan
Set it in my head.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Let's just do it.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
So knowing that for the month of January, that was all that I was going to eat, that really helps if you're going to try to stick to something.
To have like a real solid schedule.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Like sober October is another perfect example for me.
tom papa
Lent.
unidentified
Lent.
joe rogan
Yeah, when we do Sober October, we have one month, no booze, no pot, no nothing.
There's something good about that, where you have that month.
tom papa
Because it takes it out all that kind of mushy brain stuff of, oh, but maybe I'll just now, or we're celebrating.
joe rogan
Yeah, we need a certain amount of rigidity occasionally.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's how you get shit done.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And, I mean, even if you are, like, writing, if you said, I am going to write every day for the month of February.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Every day.
There's something to that.
tom papa
It's the routine.
joe rogan
Yeah, so something really beneficial.
I'm going to write for one half an hour every day.
If you do that, you get things done.
tom papa
It's really true.
joe rogan
If you just decide, I'm going to go on a carnivore diet for the next 30 days starting right now, and just count down on your calendar 30 days from now, you'll fucking lose weight and you'll feel amazing.
tom papa
Yeah, I'm going to do it.
joe rogan
I just don't know if it's a way to eat all the time.
tom papa
No, that's the thing.
It seems like an extreme thing that I would not be willing to maintain.
joe rogan
Well, you're the breadmaster.
tom papa
Well, that's the thing.
joe rogan
You're the sultan of sourdough.
tom papa
That's why I want balance.
I'm always searching for the right balance.
joe rogan
I think a great move is six days on, one day off.
That's what I think.
Six days on a rigid diet, one day where you look forward to eating bread and pasta and drinking whatever you want and having ice cream.
One day.
tom papa
That was the question.
You just reminded me of the question.
No booze during that month?
joe rogan
I drank booze.
tom papa
You did?
joe rogan
Yes.
Still lost all that weight.
But I don't drink a lot.
I drink like a glass of wine with dinner, maybe two glasses.
tom papa
Yeah, that's all I was thinking about.
joe rogan
Sometimes before I go on stage, I have a shot of whiskey.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So it's not a lot.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You know, if it's more than two drinks a night, it's unusual.
tom papa
You're cool with whiskey and then going on stage?
unidentified
Woo!
I like it.
tom papa
You do?
unidentified
I like it.
tom papa
You don't feel like you're used to it.
I would feel, whenever I drink before I go on stage, I just feel like a little off.
joe rogan
I feel on.
tom papa
You do?
joe rogan
Yeah, I like it.
Even when I film, I do a shot right before I film.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
Really?
joe rogan
One shot.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Really?
That's interesting.
joe rogan
Good shot of Buffalo Trace whiskey down the old pipe.
tom papa
And you're good to go.
joe rogan
Come on.
That's wild liquid.
Whiskey's wild liquid.
tom papa
It is wild.
joe rogan
It's wild liquid.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You wanna get wild?
That's wild liquid.
It's wild fuel.
tom papa
I don't know if I wanna be wild.
joe rogan
We have different styles, too, you know?
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
It also helps me deviate when I'm writing on stage.
If I'm fucking around on stage, it helps me deviate.
I go off on a tangent.
tom papa
A little more courageous?
joe rogan
Yeah, maybe.
Or a little more reckless, maybe is a better word.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And what about weed, though, in that same situation?
joe rogan
Yeah, that same thing.
I like weed for that, too.
tom papa
That doesn't make you more timid on stage?
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
No?
joe rogan
It makes me nicer.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But I don't think it makes me more timid.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Weed makes me nicer.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's one of the things I like about weed.
Like, I need more things that make me nicer.
tom papa
To make you nicer?
joe rogan
Yeah, it helps me.
tom papa
When you look at yourself, you think that you could be mean sometimes?
joe rogan
Not necessarily mean, but I am naturally aggressive.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
And that makes you a little bit more...
unidentified
Let's calm this fucking ride down.
joe rogan
Right.
Let's realize, like, we only have a certain amount of time left.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
When I get high, I want to call my friends and tell them I love them.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
That's what I want to do.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
You know?
I want to hug people.
tom papa
Just want to be around them.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I want to be nicer.
tom papa
I know, it is good, but I don't know.
joe rogan
How do you feel?
tom papa
I haven't performed high in a long time.
joe rogan
How about tonight?
When are you up?
tom papa
I'm not up tonight.
joe rogan
You're not up?
tom papa
I'll be up on Thursday.
joe rogan
Thursday?
What are you doing tonight?
unidentified
Chillaxing?
tom papa
Yeah, chillaxing.
It's kind of uncomfortable because my wife has people over because my special airs tonight.
joe rogan
Oh, to watch your special?
You have to sit with them?
tom papa
No, they're going to do it, and I'm going to, I don't know, sit in the yard with a cigar.
I don't know what I'm going to do.
joe rogan
Don't be there for that.
tom papa
I can't.
joe rogan
Ew.
tom papa
I can't.
joe rogan
Why is she doing that in your house?
tom papa
She's so excited.
joe rogan
Oh, that's nice.
tom papa
It is.
It's nice.
They're all excited.
They all want to do it, but I can't watch it.
unidentified
Of course you can't watch it.
tom papa
You know?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
I'll be in the other room listening if they're really laughing or not, judging their laughs.
unidentified
That's terrible.
tom papa
Isn't that hard?
joe rogan
That's a bad feeling, man.
You don't want that in your life.
tom papa
Yeah.
But I do feel, especially now, that that's all done and I'm moving into new territory, that the weed kind of can play a good role.
joe rogan
Yes, for sure.
unidentified
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
How much material do you have set aside for your new stand-up?
tom papa
I've only got about 20. That's good, though.
joe rogan
When did you film?
tom papa
October.
joe rogan
Oh, so you gave yourself some time.
That's nice.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
November, December, January, four solid months.
That's good.
tom papa
Yeah.
So I've got this new direction, a new area of stuff, but it shrinks the more you do it.
Yeah.
And this special was going to come out a little later, so I thought I had more time, but then they moved it up.
joe rogan
Isn't that exciting, though, when you're scared?
tom papa
Yo, when you're on stage.
joe rogan
You don't want to do your material.
You're scared.
You've got to write new premises.
tom papa
Yeah, I was thinking about it the other day.
You always feel like a young comic because you're always putting yourself back in a vulnerable position.
It doesn't matter how experienced anyone is.
You go out there and I'm going to do all this new stuff.
You're a child again.
joe rogan
You have no weapons.
tom papa
Which is great.
It makes you youthful.
It makes you like, okay, we're still like a kid.
It's like, no, I've been doing this for 20 years.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a great aspect of stand-up comedy when you do a lot of specials because it keeps you humble.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It really does.
And it keeps you appreciative of the art form.
You never get complacent.
tom papa
Well, that's the coolest thing about this era of comedy.
And I think that's how Netflix changed the game by having so many people put out so much content that's seen by a lot of people.
It's making everybody get on their game and write more.
The era of getting a headliner set and just rolling for 20 years is gone.
So it's actually taken the whole art form and pushed it further.
It's great.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
It really is.
joe rogan
It is.
This is the golden era.
tom papa
It's such a good moment.
It's such a good moment.
And so many different voices coming in.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
From so many different places, just not only in the culture, but from around the world.
joe rogan
Have you seen Ronnie Chang?
tom papa
Yes.
joe rogan
Fucking hilarious.
tom papa
He's great.
joe rogan
So different.
tom papa
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
I love it.
On stage with a suit, real angry and shit.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Fucking great.
I want to talk to him, man.
tom papa
He's a cool guy.
unidentified
I know him.
joe rogan
I gotta get him in here.
Do you know him?
tom papa
Yeah, I know him.
joe rogan
I gotta get him in here.
tom papa
Alright, I'll reach out to him.
joe rogan
I enjoyed his act.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I enjoyed it.
tom papa
He's a good guy, too.
joe rogan
And it was like, he didn't remind me of anybody.
tom papa
Right.
Right, exactly.
joe rogan
Setups, delivery, punchlines, premises, all of it seemed like unique.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, recognizable and relatable, but unique.
tom papa
Right, exactly.
I mean, that's what's so cool.
The whole globe has opened up.
It's like all these voices from all this different stuff.
joe rogan
It's a fucking great time to be alive.
tom papa
It really is.
joe rogan
It is.
And this art form, you know, I've been thinking about this a lot, and I really think I'm going to do something about this.
I want to document how everybody does it.
Because I think this is the only art form that is a global, worldwide art form that's enjoyed by everybody.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's not really documented.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Right?
Like, musicians.
It's documented how they write songs.
It's documented how you learn to play music.
You can go to school for it.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
When you're a comic, man, you've got to kind of figure it out on your own.
And I think we would all benefit from some sort of documentation, and particularly for the people coming up.
The girls and guys coming up that are learning how to do stand-up now would benefit tremendously from a guy like you breaking down how you do it, how you started, what's different now.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
So I'm thinking about doing a series.
jamie vernon
Okay.
tom papa
Oh yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah, and I'm probably going to put it on YouTube.
Like a podcast and do it like a podcast, but call it the Comedy Creation Series.
tom papa
Ah, I'd love to be a part of that.
joe rogan
Yeah, I want to get everybody, as many people as I can.
Tell me how you started, when did you start, what year, what was your first club, and just break down how you do it.
tom papa
Yeah, that's a great thing, because it's so varied.
joe rogan
Yes!
tom papa
You know, from doing the show with Fortune.
joe rogan
Shout out to Fortune Femster.
She's hilarious.
tom papa
Yeah, her special's up right now.
joe rogan
Is it?
On what?
tom papa
Sweet and salty.
Netflix.
joe rogan
Netflix as well?
tom papa
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's so great.
And we're interviewing all these comedians.
We had Jesus Trejo came in today.
joe rogan
I love him.
tom papa
Love him.
And it's such a unique story.
So different.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
You know, his parents coming from Mexico.
He's got to care for them.
He goes down to Mexico where there's like this new scene coming up of Spanish-speaking comedians.
I mean, that story, you put that one and then you talk to, you know, Ryan Hamilton.
Two totally different planets.
joe rogan
Yep.
tom papa
All in the same form.
joe rogan
Yep.
tom papa
It would be great to watch.
joe rogan
Fuck yeah.
It would be amazing.
tom papa
It would be really good.
joe rogan
The world needs to know how these fucking people do these things.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because it's like...
If you don't know anybody that can sit down and talk to you about how they do it, it takes too long to figure it out.
tom papa
Oh, completely.
Completely.
joe rogan
Like if you're in Pittsburgh, I don't know what kind of scene Pittsburgh has.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
I'm sure it's got some kind of a scene, but how many people really?
tom papa
Yeah.
And how many really good ones are still there that you can really learn from?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
How do you find out?
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
No, I know.
That's a good thing.
I mean, when Seinfeld put out the documentary, people still listen to, watch comedian, like young comics.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
tom papa
Because there's very few roadmaps out there.
There's very few glimpses into how someone is doing it and how they're working.
There's been other stuff where people will show themselves on stage and they're just backstage drinking or just going about their day like a road trip.
Doc kind of a thing.
But very few about process.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Very few.
joe rogan
Yeah, process and how much you've adjusted.
What do you do differently now?
What do you think about your old stuff?
What would you do differently if you could start over again?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
It's good stuff.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a weird art form in that it really doesn't have a class you can take.
tom papa
Nope.
Well, they have classes.
joe rogan
They don't really.
You know what those classes are good for?
Getting you on stage.
They're good for that.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, very few classes are taught by legit comics.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Maybe there's some of them out there that I'm not aware of, but every class that I've ever seen has been taught by scrubs.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They're probably going to give you bad advice.
tom papa
Rick Crome does one in New York.
Remember Rick Crome from The Cellar?
joe rogan
No, I don't.
tom papa
He's great.
He's been around a long time.
joe rogan
That's very valuable.
tom papa
He's like a real thoughtful...
Practitioner of it all.
You know what I mean?
And I've seen him, just glimpses of him, like when he'd be teaching downstairs at the cellar.
And it was like, okay, this is legit.
But then you see some names of other people who are out there doing it, and you're like, oh, man.
joe rogan
I would imagine it's good for you, too, to teach.
Because you can kind of think about the art form more.
tom papa
That would be really interesting.
I don't know if I could teach it.
Could you?
Could you...
joe rogan
I don't know if you...
tom papa
Take some young...
joe rogan
You'd have to be really careful.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because you don't want to mold someone into your style.
tom papa
That would be the temptation.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Just do it like this.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Just tell them, fuck you, bitch.
But I'm an observational comedian.
tom papa
Not anymore, you're not.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah, but other things when you learn how to teach, it's better.
Like, I got way better at Taekwondo when I was learning how to teach.
Because I was teaching through most of my competition days.
And it's one of the reasons why I think I got so good.
Because I was breaking down the technique constantly.
I wasn't just doing it.
I was breaking it down for beginners and showing them.
So I made sure that my technique is very good.
It's like, in my martial arts...
Right.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It was very crisp.
My technique is, like, I always, I've prided myself.
Is that a word?
unidentified
Yeah.
Prided?
joe rogan
Sounds weird.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I would pride myself on having excellent technique.
It wasn't just that it was powerful.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
It looked sharp.
It was correct.
tom papa
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
And jiu-jitsu is the same way, too.
Guys get way better at jiu-jitsu.
I've never taught jiu-jitsu, but guys get way better when they start teaching it.
tom papa
Right.
Another cool part about this era is that people are staying comedians.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Longer.
Where people would...
Do comedy, they get blown out to a TV show or something, because economically, just to stay a comedian wasn't really feasible.
But now you can actually make a living, and it's actually a more valued thing in the culture.
This is the first wave of guys staying in it for their whole career, and not wanting to get out.
They're not looking at it as a way to get out of it.
joe rogan
Someone was just asking about that.
Like, what was the last person that you know that had a special around the year 2000 that's out of the game now?
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Like, completely quit comedy.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Who completely quits comedy?
tom papa
Yeah.
Not anymore.
joe rogan
It's just too easy.
You know, just think about those...
You know, afternoon diner trips and going to the movies, and you're like, oh, all that goes away if I get a job job?
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
And the only way you would do it is if you're not making enough money, so then you would have to get a job job.
tom papa
Right, right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Yeah, but no, I mean, you know, even Eddie Murphy, he's seeing what it's become.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
He's got to be regretting it at some point of like, why did I leave?
Why did I stop doing it?
joe rogan
Maybe, but, I mean, he made a lot of fucking great movies.
He did, for real.
I think he grew as a human being, you know?
tom papa
Look, no regrets.
You could still see just when he was just hosting, it just pops out of him.
He's a volcano of comedy.
If he had kept cracking at it all this time, though, you know what I mean?
Even like a little bit, it would have been good for me.
It would have been good for me to watch.
joe rogan
It would have been, but it will be great to see what he does now because he's kind of committed to it.
I think he signed a deal with Netflix for two specials.
tom papa
Oh, for two?
joe rogan
I believe so.
I believe that's what I read.
Let's see if that's correct.
One-handed type of genius.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That would be cool.
I think they gave him a shit ton of money.
tom papa
I could only imagine.
joe rogan
Dolomite.
I haven't seen it.
I heard it's awesome.
tom papa
So good.
joe rogan
Is it?
tom papa
So good.
joe rogan
Got a huge response from people.
tom papa
How he's not nominated is, you know...
unidentified
Fuck the nominations.
Fuck off.
tom papa
I know, but still, he really should have been.
Fuck off.
joe rogan
Ricky Gervais should host every award show from now to the end of time.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
Just to let all those twats know.
We're on to you.
unidentified
We're on to you.
joe rogan
Climate change is real.
Fuck off.
Get out of here with your golden man statue.
Sit down.
Taking a private jet everywhere.
Fuck off.
tom papa
He was so good.
He was one of the best performances I saw this year for sure.
Dolomite.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I need to see it.
I haven't seen it.
tom papa
You do.
joe rogan
He's brilliant.
tom papa
He's brilliant and it's comedy.
It's so good.
joe rogan
Jamie says just one special.
tom papa
One special?
joe rogan
Yeah.
They're going to give him a shit ton of loot, and I hope he works it out.
jamie vernon
Could be a movie or something, because they did Dolomite.
joe rogan
Oh, right, a movie and a special.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, it's going to be work, you know, unless he hires a bunch of writers to craft the bits, and then that won't be right anyway.
You know, you really need the work.
You need to be on those stages.
tom papa
Yeah.
Ellen...
Did it.
joe rogan
How was it?
tom papa
It was good.
joe rogan
Was it good?
I didn't hear anything about it.
tom papa
It didn't look like she had taken off for decades.
It certainly didn't.
joe rogan
Well, she does her show all the time, so she does do that monologue.
tom papa
She does.
But, you know, stand-up, stand-up.
joe rogan
Don't you think the monologue is like stand-up light, though?
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like Jay Leno.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Right?
He was always doing those monologues, but then he would do stand-up on Sunday nights, and then he'd do corporate gigs.
tom papa
Yeah.
Yeah, right, exactly.
joe rogan
But he wasn't banging it out in the clubs every day like us.
tom papa
No.
He's still going now, though.
joe rogan
I talked to Bill Maher, had him in here.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he was repulsed by the idea of going to the clubs.
It's like, ugh, why would I do that?
Like, literally.
I'm like, you don't want to go to the clubs?
tom papa
Yeah, why not?
joe rogan
He's like, no way.
I'm done.
I escaped.
I'm out.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I'm like, but it's the greatest way.
Like, you hang out with comics.
You get to do stand-up.
tom papa
Yeah.
It just seems like low rent.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't know, man.
I mean, sometimes people have their own audience and that's all they want.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They don't want to go, like a show at the store, like tonight I'll go up at the store and there'll be 14 other people on the lineup.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And there's people there to see every one of those people.
tom papa
Yeah, right.
joe rogan
So they're not just there to see you, they're there to see comedy.
tom papa
That's what's great.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They might not be into you at all.
tom papa
Yeah.
It's like going to the gym.
No one wants to really go to the gym.
It's hard at the gym.
unidentified
Exactly.
tom papa
But then you start to love at the gym.
joe rogan
It seems like, you know, I talked to Burr about this, and he's in agreement.
He believes that you have to do it.
He's like, that's the only way.
The only way.
You gotta go to the clubs.
I'm like, I think so, too.
He goes, nobody else that doesn't go to the clubs really kills.
tom papa
Right.
Yeah, you can get through it.
You can do a monologue.
You can recite a monologue.
But you're missing all of that high-impact stuff in between.
joe rogan
You also run the risk of being funny because people love you.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
The people that love you, that come to see you, they're your crowd.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And you run that risk.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Maybe you can pull it through.
Brian Regan may be different.
He might be an exception to that rule, because I don't think he goes to clubs and he still murders.
tom papa
He does.
But he's out there performing all the time.
joe rogan
All the time.
tom papa
All the time.
joe rogan
Nonstop.
Nonstop, yeah.
tom papa
And he treats, you know, he's in a good position where he's beloved, where he can treat a set in front of 3,000 people and He'll kill, but also be able to work his stuff out within that set.
joe rogan
Yeah, he'll work out new stuff.
He's a unique guy, right?
Because he's super popular with his crowd, but he doesn't have a problem with being famous.
He can go anywhere.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
No, absolutely.
Yeah, there's people outside of the comedy-loving world that don't know who he is.
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
Which is astounding to all of us, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
But that's how fragmented the culture is.
Like, when we were talking about if you're just watching one news or watching one kind of thing, it's like where everyone's in their own little bubble.
You know, there's, you know, Joe Coy is selling out, you know, the forum.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
And my parents will have no idea who he is.
joe rogan
Multiple shows, I think, too.
I think he did two shows at the Forum.
tom papa
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Like, we're such a big, massive, entertainment-eating colossus that people can be huge and be invisible at the same time.
joe rogan
Like Sebastian.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Sebastian sells out four shows at Madison Square Garden.
Sometimes I have to explain who he is to people.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Like, how do you not know?
tom papa
Isn't it weird?
joe rogan
But meanwhile, he can go places.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's really a beautiful balance.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He can go to the mall.
Nobody gives a fuck.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
tom papa
Yeah.
Taylor Swift can't do that.
joe rogan
I was watching a documentary.
I should say my kids were watching a Taylor Swift documentary.
tom papa
I watched it last night with my daughter.
joe rogan
Dude, there's a beginning of it when she walks on stage in the stadium and you see all the fucking people with their lighters on and everything.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
I guess it's not lighters.
It's the light from their cell phones, right?
tom papa
From their phones or something.
But yeah, I know the shot you're talking about.
unidentified
It's crazy.
tom papa
It's bonkers.
But what was so cool about it was...
Watching her as a 13-year-old learning to write songs, she's just, she works.
joe rogan
She does.
tom papa
She works.
joe rogan
That's got to be an incredibly bizarre place to be.
tom papa
Her existence.
Her life.
joe rogan
Yeah, her life.
Because she's young.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
How old is she now?
tom papa
29 in that documentary.
joe rogan
So she's been hugely famous for how many years now?
tom papa
16, I think, is when she came on the scene.
Yeah.
joe rogan
13 years.
And those are very formative years.
tom papa
I know.
She seems like she handles it pretty well.
I mean, that's what...
From the documentary, it was...
I was really impressed.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
How good of a songwriter she was.
Like, watching her come up with stuff.
She's obviously so practiced and knows what she wants to do.
And just the way she was coming up with stuff as she was on the fly.
joe rogan
Maybe that's the key...
Maybe the key is you have to really be obsessed with your work and doing what you want to do.
tom papa
100%.
joe rogan
Like Prince.
tom papa
100%.
They are making the stuff.
They're not putting things.
They actually have a craft that they can go to work on.
joe rogan
She's a writer.
tom papa
Totally.
A really good writer.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
And all that noise, you know, she was obviously just even from the glimpse that they showed us in the documentary, dealing with weight and the fame and the Kanye stuff.
Weight?
Yeah, she would see pictures of herself and stop eating.
joe rogan
What?
tom papa
Yeah.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Is that in the documentary?
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
I only watched it for like two minutes.
I walked in, my kids were watching, I'm like, I gotta get out of here before I get infected.
tom papa
No, it was pretty good.
I liked it.
joe rogan
I'm sure.
tom papa
I was impressed by her.
I really was.
joe rogan
That's a bummer, though, that she's always been so skinny.
tom papa
Well, everyone's got stuff they've got to deal with, but the thing that, like you said, it's a weird place to be, but...
That she can go and write songs and go and perform them, that seems like she's got something tangible, meaningful, that will get her through that tumble.
joe rogan
Right.
It's not like a pop star where a corporation puts together your look and your songs and your thing and your this and your that.
She's doing it all herself.
tom papa
Yeah.
You're not just the guitarist.
Someone else is writing the songs and doing all this stuff and you're just doing drugs and shredding once in a while.
You know what I mean?
It's important to have something that you do.
It can be something small and stupid, but it really gives you your life meaning.
And without it, it doesn't have to be this big performance stuff or stuff that gets you a lot of money.
Like a little hobby, a little craft, a little something you can go to sleep thinking about.
I don't know why, but it's an important part about being a human being.
joe rogan
Well, I think you nailed it.
It gives you meaning.
Like, you're working towards something.
You're working at something.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
It shuts the noise out as you're thinking about this thing that you're actually getting better at.
joe rogan
Yeah, and then you get the satisfaction, seeing the progress.
tom papa
Yeah.
And, I mean, she's, you know, as big as they get.
But then she can crank out these songs, and you can see, like, this comm come over her as she's doing that part of it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Yeah, it was pretty cool to watch.
joe rogan
Tom Papa, Taylor Swift fan.
There you go.
tom papa
I was definitely watching my daughter, who's a pretty skeptical kid, you know, at 17, and to watch her, like, admiration for her as a woman getting it done, that part, you know, she definitely gained more points for that.
joe rogan
That's cool.
I wonder what happens with someone like that.
Like, where do they go as they get older?
Where do they go?
I mean, you're growing up and living your entire life in this superstar position.
Very strange superstar position.
tom papa
Well, it probably, you know, the white hotness of it probably fades to some degree, but if you're...
An artist like that, you would keep creating.
You know, like Bonnie Raitt was just at the Grammys, right?
You know, and she had their moments of being huge, and then you just become like a working musician in a way.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
You know?
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Now, that's a good way to do it, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just sort of be appreciated by your fans, keep going out there, and just keep doing it.
tom papa
And they take them along with you and see if they stick around, and You're 90 years old playing in nursing home, but there's still 20 people in the audience.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
It's pretty cool.
It's a pretty good thing.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Like, look at Willie Nelson.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Still out there banging it out.
tom papa
Yeah.
Amazing.
joe rogan
Still touring.
Stopped smoking weed.
unidentified
He did?
joe rogan
Stopped smoking weed.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Lung problems.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Now he's down to edibles.
tom papa
Oh, well, he's still getting high, though.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But he was fucking up his lungs, I guess, which is hilarious because he's like 90. He must have been smoking a lot.
I wonder if he smoked cigarettes as well.
Did he smoke cigarettes as well?
unidentified
Yeah.
jamie vernon
I don't know about that, but I heard a story of him smoking garbage cans full of weed in Hawaii.
unidentified
Garbage cans?
jamie vernon
He just had them around.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Who was that country music star that has that song, I'll Never Smoke Weed with Willie Again?
tom papa
Oh really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
That fucking guy, Travis...
tom papa
Tripp?
joe rogan
What's his name?
Famous guy.
tom papa
I'll never smoke.
jamie vernon
Toby Keith?
joe rogan
Toby Keith, that's right.
unidentified
Toby Keith, right.
tom papa
Because he got so messed up.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's like he's got a song, I'll never smoke weed with Willie again.
He puts you in the grave, son.
tom papa
It's amazing.
He's just cranking it out.
And his thing was to be nicer.
Willie Nelson has always talked about his mean streak and his whiskey streak.
And the weed was the thing that really made him a kinder person.
joe rogan
That's what it does.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's the best aspect of marijuana is it makes you more kind and more...
It makes you think about community and friendship and just forgiving people too.
tom papa
Right, exactly.
joe rogan
Relaxing, just letting go of all the bullshit.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's what the world needs, a lot more forgiveness.
Especially today...
tom papa
100%.
joe rogan
We could all use just a little more understanding.
Yeah.
tom papa
Yeah, where are you going to learn if you don't make mistakes?
joe rogan
Exactly.
tom papa
Screw up and then you correct it and you become a better person.
jamie vernon
The lyrics to this song should be rewritten by somebody about Joey Diaz.
They're pretty good.
joe rogan
I always heard that his herb was top shelf.
Lord, I could not wait to find out for myself.
Well, don't knock it till you tried it.
And I've tried it, my friend.
I'll never smoke weed with Willie again.
Now we learned a hard lesson in a small Texas town.
He fired up a fat boy and passed it around.
The last words I spoke before they tucked me in.
May I discount bungee jump, but I'll never smoke weed with Willie again.
I made discount bungee jump.
I'll never smoke weed with Willie again.
My party's all over before it begins.
You can pour me some old whiskey river, my friend, but I'll never smoke weed with Willie again.
Smoking weed with Joey Diaz is one thing.
It's the edibles that'll get you.
tom papa
The edibles?
Joey's edibles?
joe rogan
Oh my god.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, he'll dose you.
He'll take a 500 milligram edible and he'll take the wrapper off and put a 20 milligram edible label on it.
tom papa
Hey, what have you heard about microdosing?
joe rogan
A lot.
tom papa
Yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah, acid or mushrooms?
tom papa
Acid.
joe rogan
A lot of people do it.
tom papa
I know.
It's becoming a thing, right?
joe rogan
It seems to help them stay focused and centered and calm and keep the chatter down, negative self-chatter, all that kind of stuff.
tom papa
Is there anything bad to it?
joe rogan
I don't know.
I don't know.
I've micro-dosed it a couple of times.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But I've never done it on a regular basis like a lot of these people do.
But I know a lot of people are doing it with psilocybin.
And a lot of them do it, they take it like once every couple days.
They don't even do it every day.
They take it every few days.
They find it remarkably beneficial.
Ron White is into microdosing psilocybin.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Loves it.
tom papa
And it's not like you're really tripping.
joe rogan
No.
No, it's barely perceptible.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, barely perceptible.
But it just gives you a nice feeling.
You know, it's like, there's something about it that's nice.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
And then people feel like that, it just eliminates some of the anxiety and the shit that goes on in your head that you could be battling with.
It calms those voices down.
For different people.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, obviously for everyone, everyone has a different reaction to that.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Tom Papa, we've got to wrap this bitch up.
tom papa
Where are we going to go?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's three o'clock.
tom papa
So what?
joe rogan
We did it.
We just did it for three hours.
tom papa
Come on.
Let's go for five.
joe rogan
I really can't have things to do.
Someday I will.
unidentified
All right.
joe rogan
We'll plan it out in advance next time.
tom papa
I'll come back after my explosive diarrhea.
joe rogan
You going to do that?
When are you going to start?
tom papa
Tomorrow.
joe rogan
You're going to start with a diet tomorrow?
tom papa
I think so.
joe rogan
You're going to eat this loaf of bread and then go right in?
tom papa
That's exactly it.
That's all I was thinking.
Well, I do have another loaf at home.
joe rogan
Your Netflix special is out right now.
It is called...
You're Doing Great.
Yep.
Tom Papa on Instagram.
Tom Papa on Twitter.
tom papa
Yep.
Go to YouTube and look up Getting Baked with Tom Papa.
joe rogan
Getting Baked with Tom Papa, the new series.
Always a pleasure.
tom papa
And then the new book.
I'll see you before that comes out.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Yeah.
When is that going to come out?
tom papa
May.
joe rogan
May.
Come here before May.
tom papa
All right.
joe rogan
Tom Popper, ladies and gentlemen.
You're the best.
Love you, buddy.
unidentified
Bye.
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