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Jan. 28, 2020 - The Joe Rogan Experience

02:10:54

JRE MMA Show #88 with Frankie Edgar

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joe rogan

02:06:01

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jamie vernon

01:47

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Speaker	Time	Text
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Boom.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's up, Frankie?
unidentified		How are you, brother?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Good to see you, man.
		Good to be here.
		Good to have you.
		We talked about this many times.
		We have.
		You know, my buddy Chris LeGore, I got to shout him out because he got me listening to you years ago and he's been telling me to come on this podcast forever.
		So I'm glad to finally get it done.
		So shout out to Chris.
		I know he's listening.
		Hi Chris.
		So you got your own podcast now?
		I do.
		Me and Roger Matthews from Jersey Shore fame.
		He was the ex-husband of JWoww.
		The champ and the tramp.
		Champ and the tramp.
		That's what you guys call it.
unidentified		Yeah, champ and the tramp.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's hilarious.
		That's hilarious.
		So what's happening man?
		You just got off of the Chan Sung Jung fight.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And what's next?
		What are you up to?
		I'm gonna go down 35. Yeah?
		How much do you walk around at?
		I'm probably like 56 right now.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Marlon's got to be bigger than you, right?
		Marlon is about a little bit bigger than me, yeah.
		I think so.
		I think he walks around a little heavier.
		He's a little bit more of an eater than I am.
		Dude, that guy, I have a hard time believing he makes 35 sometimes.
		He's so jacked.
		He's got such a small waist, though.
		His legs and shoulders are so big, but his waist is kind of small, so maybe that's how he carries it.
		So have you done a cut like that before?
		I haven't been, but even my last fight, I think I was getting down to 45. I got down to like 44.5.
		I mean, it's only 8.5 over where I got to be to make 36, and it was such an easy cut for this last time.
		You're an interesting situation, man, because you won the title at 55, and you didn't cut any weight at all.
		And a lot of people were like, well, fuck, man, Frankie Edgar can do it.
		The thing about you at 55 was you were so durable.
		That was one of the craziest things about some of your fights, like the Gray Maynard fights.
		Fucking A, man.
		Who reffed those fights?
		Eve Levine.
		Both of them?
		No, the first one.
		The second one, I think, was Josh Rosenthal.
		Well, shout out to both of those guys.
		Because a trigger-hungry referee who's got an itchy trigger finger, they would have stopped those fights.
		Now, I think nowadays, someone might stop it.
		Yeah, yeah.
		Back then, I feel like they let it go a little more.
		I mean, of course, there's still sometimes they let it go a little too long now.
unidentified		It all changes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It depends.
		You never know.
		You never know.
		It all changes.
		It's such a weird thing, right?
		It's like the referee is trying to help the fighter.
		They're trying to make sure that the fighter doesn't take unnecessary damage.
		But, you know, more than once, you see fights stopped where you're like, oh, that guy wasn't done.
		He was getting through a bad patch, and that's part of what a fight is about.
		It's like trying to figure out how to survive.
		For sure.
		I always want the benefit of the doubt.
		I don't want to get...
		Unnecessary punishment, of course, but I'd rather get the benefit of that.
		I've never been turned off, even with Ortega and Chan Jung fight.
		Both those fights, even though I got rocked in my other fights, these fights, I kind of was more coherent.
		I'm not complaining about the stoppages or anything like that.
		I could see why they stopped it, but in the great fights, even the Benson-Henderson fight where I got upkicked, I don't remember.
		Any of those fights.
		You know, I remember like three, four rounds of those fights.
		Just because it was so wild?
		Just because of getting hit?
		Yeah, because I got hit and I kept getting hit.
		Maybe that's why I didn't remember.
		The Ortega fight, I got rocked pretty good.
		And I remember in my head saying, alright, there's short time left.
		Let's get through it.
		Let's get through it.
		Obviously, didn't make it to the end.
		And, you know, but I remembered being coherent.
		Even this last one with Korean Zombie, I remember the ref saying, you know, you got to do something down there.
		You got to do something down there.
		And I was trying to do my best.
		My body maybe wasn't reacting the way I needed to be.
		But, yeah, you know, I've never been turned off, you know.
		I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but...
		I don't know if it's a good thing either.
		It's like...
		Some people say if you get turned off, it's better because then you don't absorb as much punishment.
		I've heard that argument.
		But then if you do get turned off, your body gets turned off easier next time.
		That's pretty true.
		Yeah, well, it seems like it seems like, yeah.
		Guys that get cracked, they kind of continue to get cracked and get rocked a little easier.
		I'm hoping that's not the case for me.
		It's more of the actual knockout itself.
unidentified		Like a bad knockout.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy that you have had a bunch of fights where you don't remember Most of the fight.
		That's a thing that a lot of fighters don't necessarily talk about, but it's a reality of hard fights.
		Yeah.
		My second fight with Gray, where Eve Levine was the referee, I remember, I think, the fourth round, my coach Mark was telling me, we got one more round.
		In my head, I'm like, one more round?
		What happened to three and four?
		I didn't remember at all.
		And also, when he dropped me, I rolled my ankle really bad, probably a great tooth sprain.
		And I remember in the fourth round coming to, and my ankle was hurting me.
		I'm like, what happened?
		I have no idea what happened to my ankle.
		And even walking back, you know, I was kind of, you know, I don't know.
		Sometimes you get rocked, you get depressed for some reason.
		I noticed that even in the gym.
		When I get rocked, I get a little bit of depression going on for some reason.
		Like, what does it feel like when you say depression?
		Like, my middle ball, you know, you're just down on yourself, you know?
		I was emotional.
		I think I was crying after the Gray fight in the locker room.
		I think they have camera back there and there's a video of me like...
		Even the second fight when you stopped him.
		Not the second fight, but the...
		Well, that was the second fight, not the third fight.
		The third fight you stopped him.
		That's right, the second fight you won.
		The fucking fights that you had with Gray were so crazy...
		He was so big.
		Yeah, he was a big boy, man.
		He was so big for 55, you know, and you were a guy who didn't cut any weight at all.
		Nothing.
		I literally would eat breakfast on weighing day.
		Wow.
		That's crazy.
		Yeah.
		Did you ever think back then about dropping down?
		Or were you just like, fuck it, I'm the champ.
		Why should I go down?
		I mean, I'm winning.
		I'm beating these guys.
		Even the Benson Henders fights, they were super close.
		I could have won either way.
		But I just felt, alright, I'll go down now.
		I lost two in a row here.
		What more can I gain from here?
		Let me go down to 45. And that's when I fought Aldo for the 45-pound belt.
		When you think about it, like if you had a chance to do it all over again, like if you had to engineer your career all over again, would you do it exactly the same way?
		Would you fight at 55?
		Well, you definitely would against BJ, right?
		Yeah, I mean...
		You can't go back and change those things.
		It all worked out for me.
		I got a world title.
		I'm continuing to have a pretty good career.
		There's always things you wish you could do differently.
		I can't be that guy that's going to say, I wish I did this, wish I did that.
		Things went the way they went.
		Well, they went pretty fucking good.
		I mean...
		Yeah, I'm not complaining.
		Especially the BJ Penn fight.
		I remember the first one in Abu Dhabi.
		I was there for that one.
		I was like, holy shit.
		That was a big victory, man.
	And the second one, too.
	The second one was probably even better just because I more definitively won.
	I felt like too, like, you know, BJ had my back in that second fight.
	And, you know, everybody thought, you know, BJ gets your back back then, you're in trouble.
	And I was able to defend.
	I think I reversed him.
	So I kind of showed a little bit of all my complete skills in that fight.
	Out of all the guys that I've ever seen fight, I've never seen anybody who controls people with the legs the way BJ does.
	He's got the craziest dexterity in his legs.
	He does.
	I heard when he was younger he could stand up and put his leg over his head standing up.
	Jesus Christ.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if that's true.
		Like just lift it up and put it back there?
		Yeah.
		Like not even grab it?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not even grab it.
		Put it over his head.
		I don't know if that's true.
		We've seen him jump out of the pool too.
unidentified		That's pretty wild.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		No, he's an incredible athlete.
		Yeah.
		And his physical talents were unusual, but he worked on it.
		Like, this is the thing a lot of people don't realize.
		There's some great videos of BJ stretching, and he would stretch with bands.
		So he has all this crazy, like, he would grab his foot, like, put it on his chest.
		He's got bands.
		bands and he's stretching the shit out of himself so it wasn't just natural ability it was also like he realized well he realized that his legs were like other arms like because he when you're in his guard he would just those legs would come up and just pinch you down and and his mount he would cross his legs underneath dudes and his back mount was incredible yeah he was uh one of a kind i think you know on the ground and Just as a fighter, I mean, I looked up to him coming up.
		He was the man, licking blood off his hands.
		I was actually with him.
		We did the UFC gym 10-year anniversary party up in Concord.
		Dana was there and BJ was there, so I was hanging out with BJ. BJ's a good dude, man.
		We get along really well.
		Is he done fighting, or what is he going to do?
		I don't know.
		I think he wants to fight.
		I don't think Dana wants him to fight.
		We have that crazy brawl in Hawaii.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Outside of a bar.
		I mean, people are all so like, oh, look at Pete.
		You're getting mad at a fighter for fighting?
		You know, come on.
		Is it that surprising?
		That is a funny way to look at it, right?
		Like if a singer gets in a fight, you're like, what is he doing?
		But a fighter fighting, it's like a basketball player having a pickup game.
		Yeah, exactly.
		Can't get mad at him for that.
		That is kind of weird when you stop and think about it, you know?
		And that's the nature down in Hawaii, I think.
		A lot of people get down.
		That's how they get down out there.
		Yeah, they get down.
		Yeah, tough motherfuckers in Hawaii.
		Yeah, for sure.
		You know, that fight, though, was so sad to watch.
		Like, that dude clipped him with the left hook and dropped him and bounced his head off the concrete.
		I was like, fuck BJ. Did he say, hit me?
		He said, you let him hit him.
		He let the guy hit him.
		But then he came back.
		He went out.
		He flashed out and went down.
		And then, I don't know if the video was continuous or what, but later is a video of him having the guys back and smashing him.
		It's like, God damn it.
		Yeah, and you gotta be careful.
		You never know what could happen in a street fight, too, so you gotta be careful.
		Guys go home, open the trunk, come right back.
		Yeah, or, I mean, you should throw some on their head and they don't wake up, you know?
		That's a big one.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, that happened to a buddy of mine in Long Island, Kevin James, actually.
		The comedian?
		Yeah.
		His buddy, they were working together as bouncers, and he was working with this guy, and this guy got in a fight with a patron, punched the guy, knocked him out.
		The guy fell, banged his head off the ground, died.
		Wow.
		Dude wound up doing jail time.
		Wow.
		And that happens.
		I heard a story of some wrestler, kind of the same thing, got into a fight, picked the guy up, slammed him on his head, and ended up in jail.
		Oh, my God.
		Can you imagine a wrestler, like a Yoel Romero, fucking suplexing you on the street?
		You ain't getting up for that one.
		What in the fuck?
		It's over forever.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it'll flatten the top of your head.
unidentified		Oh, God.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's another freak, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's the freakiest freak.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Out of all the freaks, you got, like, Brock Lesnar, who's, like, got some freaky Viking genes.
		Like, for sure.
		Yeah, it has to be.
		That dude don't make any sense.
		You ever see photos of him when he was in high school?
		Oh, dude.
		Look at that freak in high school.
		Wow.
		Yeah, he was a senior when I was a freshman, and we were wrestling nationals together, and I remember just being next to him like, damn, how the fuck is this guy even real?
		You know?
		This looks like an action figure.
		Yeah, he was...
		He was the biggest physical freak I think I've ever seen.
		But then you got Ngannou, who I think is more of a physical freak.
		Yeah, yeah.
		You know, Ngannou, 265 pounds.
		Because I'm 100% positive Ngannou's on the natch.
		That guy's all natural.
		Yeah, just digging salt mines or whatever, dirt mines, sand mines.
		He's got a photo on his Instagram today of him chopping wood.
		Everything he does terrifies me.
		He's so fucking powerful, man.
		That guy, out of all the guys I've ever seen in the heavyweight division, he is for sure the most powerful.
		That uppercut he landed on Alistair over him was incredible, man.
		I thought he decapitated him.
		Yeah, it's like the back of his head touched his back.
		Oh, man, look at this dude.
		He's breaking rocks, I guess.
		What the fuck is he doing?
		He's hitting a stake into the ground.
		That motherfucker has power.
		Yeah.
		He has, like, the most ridiculous punching power.
		It has to, right?
		Oh, yeah, man.
		Well, he's a natural 270-plus, and apparently he's been lifting, so he's even above 265 right now.
		He's going to have to cut weight.
unidentified		So he cuts weight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's wild.
		This guy's fighting next.
		Rosenstreich is badass.
		That's a really good fight.
		Is he a K-1 guy?
		No.
		I don't know where he did his kickboxing career.
		Pull up Jarzino Rosenstreich.
		Try spelling that.
		Good luck.
		You got it?
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This dude's the man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Come on.
unidentified		He knows.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how you fucking spelled that correctly.
		But Rosenstreich, the thing that scared me about him when he was fighting Alistair was like he was walking right through Alistair's shots.
		Which is the craziest.
		And Alistair's no joke.
		I mean, he takes people out left and right.
		Dude, when he was on the sauce and he fought Brock, when he was Ubering, whoo!
		Here it goes.
		So he fought in a bunch of different organizations.
		Danger Zone.
		Yeah.
		So Slam.
		Where's he from?
		Rosenstruck.
		Let's see.
		It's...
		What's his name?
		Suriname.
unidentified		Suriname.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that where...
		Isn't that what he said?
		Tyrone Spong.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Tyrone Spong is from there, yeah.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, Spong was supposed to fight Usyk in a heavyweight fight when Usyk moved up to heavyweight in boxing.
		You know, Tyrone Spong is all boxing now.
unidentified		Is he?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's only boxing, yeah.
		Did you see his last kickboxing fight?
		He was supposed to fight...
		I don't know, I'm thinking a big baby Miller was supposed to fight...
		That's right.
		Joshua, right?
		But he's tested positive.
		Tyrone tested positive too.
		Tyrone tested positive before he was supposed to fight Usyk.
		But he said it's bullshit.
		I think he was actually cleared of it.
		But it was too late.
		They'd already set up this other fight for Usyk.
		He's a dangerous guy.
		I think there's a lot of people that are going to avoid Tyrone Spong.
		Yeah, he hits hard, man.
		He hits fucking hard, and he's a savage.
		He is.
		Did you ever see his last kickboxing fight?
		He broke his leg.
		He broke his leg, yeah.
		Against Turkish Tyson.
		Right.
		What's his name?
		Turkish Tyson, right?
		Oh, Jesus.
		Why can't I remember his name?
		He's in the UFC now, right?
		Yeah, you made me forget his name.
		What happened?
		Gohan Saki.
		Gohan.
		Gohan Saki.
		Jesus Christ.
		It's early.
		Saki, he's had a tough transition to MMA, but he's still a bad motherfucker.
		And in fighting and kickboxing, man, he was one of my favorite guys ever to watch.
		Saki had the nastiest left hand.
		He would throw like left hook, left hook, left hook.
		Left hook to the body, left hook to the head, left hook to the body.
		Bang, bang, bang!
		Fast as fuck.
		And for a heavyweight, ridiculous hand speed.
		Yeah, I mean, I feel like all these athletes are just getting better and better as it goes, right?
		Oh yeah, for sure.
		It's kind of crazy.
		These big guys are athletic as hell too.
		When you stop back and think about your first fights in the UFC, when you first got started, what stands out as being real different about seeing the younger guys coming up today?
		The younger guys are just more complete.
		And they're more athletic.
		I think back when I first started, we were just guys that wanted to fight.
		We were tough guys.
		The wrestlers always did well because we competed our whole lives.
		But now these kids are polished right away.
		You've seen like 20-year-old kids with crazy skills.
		Yeah, they're polished.
		They've been doing it for five years already.
		You see that kid, Edmund Shabazian?
		Yes.
		Fucking incredible.
		He's like, I think he's 21 now.
		Right.
		And he is just a fucking murderer, man.
		Yeah.
	It's crazy.
	It's amazing that I'm 18 years older than some of these kids.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That is crazy.
		When do you think you're going to not do this anymore?
		I don't know.
		I always have three rules.
		As long as I'm enjoying it and I want to do it, as long as I'm competitive, I don't want to lose fights to guys I think I should be able to beat, as long as my body holds up.
		And how old are you now?
		38. So for the lighter weight divisions, that's older.
		That's older, yeah.
		I feel good.
		My body feels good.
		Always little injuries here and there.
		But I enjoy it.
		It's still fun.
		My last couple fights didn't go the way I wanted to.
		Holloway, obviously.
		I thought I gave him a pretty good run.
		That was a very good fight.
		He's a big dude.
		It was tough to close that range.
		I was in on some of his legs.
		I just couldn't really move him.
		He felt like he was part of the part of the guy could tree, you know, and then you know took that fight with crane zombie and obviously didn't go as I expected but Now I got to bounce back from this one When you think about your preparation like between when you first started to now like as you get older Is there anything that you do differently?
		I don't spar as much, I think.
		I would spar three days a week, always.
		Five rounds, you know, for five-round fights, six rounds sometimes.
		Now I kind of do two days a week.
		That was a little push and pull for me and Mark.
		Mark wants us always sparring a lot.
		Oh, really?
		He's big into sparring, and I kind of am too.
		I feel like the best way to get in shape for a fight is by fighting, you know?
		And we have good sparring partners.
		We're not trying to kill each other.
		Right.
		You know, but...
		Our team, when I first started, it was me and a couple guys that really weren't in the UFC. Now it's just a bunch of hammers non-stop.
		That Mark Henry camp is insane.
		Yeah, he's a special guy.
		He has so many top-flight guys come to him from all around the world.
		Like Zabit.
		How do you get from Dagestan to Jersey?
		Yeah, they all do this.
		They say they're coming, they all fly to Moscow, they stay in Moscow for a couple days, and they go to Brooklyn, stay in Brooklyn for a couple days, and they come down.
		So if they say they're coming the next day, it's usually three days later, because that's the rounds they make.
		Why do they go to Brooklyn first?
unidentified		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a big Dagestan community up there.
		I don't know if they take them shopping or something.
		I never knew Dagestan was a place until I heard of Khabib.
		I mean, I've maybe heard about it, but it didn't feature in my mind as a prominent martial arts spot.
		Yeah, well, I knew Satyev, the wrestler.
		He's from Chechnya, right there.
		I remember watching him when I was in high school, and this guy was just unbelievable.
		I think he won, I don't know how many world championships, like 10. He was in 10 straight world championships with Olympics and Worlds.
		And he's a Chechen fighter and that's that area.
		This past world championship, Osensia, Chechnya, and Dagestan, which is like the size of Georgia, the state, won the world.
		Just people from that area would have won the world championship in wrestling.
		Wow.
		I just can't fathom that.
		Well, they're just hard people, man.
		Yeah.
		You see that basketball game that they play?
		You see Will Harris' films?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Will Harris Productions.
		Shout out to Will.
		Yeah, Will's the man.
		Will's the man.
		I love that guy.
		He's a cool dude.
		He's a great guy.
		And he gets embedded.
		He does.
		He goes to Dagestan.
		He hangs out with them.
		He eats with them.
		He plays that crazy basketball game with them.
		And he's a semi-professional ball player, too.
		Yeah, he's a huge guy.
unidentified		He's a big dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He could have been a real...
		I mean, he had a bad knee injury when he was in college.
		But it's hilarious watching them play that basketball game where they grab a hold of each other and drag each other to the mat and submit each other.
unidentified		I used to think I fouled the bad, but at least I dribbled the ball.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like rugby slash basketball slash MMA. That's probably my only way to score some buckets, though.
		It's weird, though.
		It seems like they might have invented it, right?
		It has to be.
		I wonder if it's prominent in Dagestan or if it's just that camp.
		In wrestling, they play handball.
		They call it handball, or we used to call it gatorball, where we have soccer nets or field hockey nets, and it's kind of the same thing.
		You had three steps, you could pass the ball, no dribbling, and then it's a bunch of wrestlers playing, so we're all tackling each other and everything.
		So we kind of always used to do that, but we never did it with basketball hoops, so I guess that's a little different.
		Well, Will said that that's how they warm up.
		They just get out there, and for one hour, they'll play this crazy basketball game, and then they go train.
		Yeah, we used to do that with the handball or gator ball, we used to call it.
		It kind of makes sense that that would be a good way to warm up, right?
		Because it's competitive, you're running around a lot.
		Yeah, it's fun.
		Kind of fun instead of just doing the same old routine.
		But it's interesting that even him, even Khabib, with that crazy camp and all those monsters that he trains with, makes his way down to AKA to train in America.
		That is something I always wonder.
		Even the guys that come to us, I'm like, these guys are all so good, why don't they just train with each other at home?
		But I think they like the fact that they're locked in when they get here.
		They have no distractions.
		And I think they come here for the coaching.
		Yeah, I'm sure.
		I think just a different look, a different perspective is probably beneficial.
		But just the fact that...
		So many elite fighters from all over the world still want to do their camps either at ATT or with you guys or AKA. There's just so many different places that they travel to.
		Have you ever gone somewhere for a camp where you just locked yourself down?
		No, I've always did all my camps in Jersey.
		Early in my career, though, before I had Mark, even before I started training with Ricardo and Henzo and those guys, I went out to AKA actually with Thompson.
		I stayed with Josh Thompson.
		Josh is the man.
		I love that dude.
		He was just here last week.
		I was listening to him a little bit.
		Yeah, he opened his house.
		I stayed at his house for a little bit, man.
		Oh, that's cool.
		He's a super good dude.
		He was kind of a veteran at the time when I came in, so he helped me out a little bit.
		I stayed a couple weeks there hanging out at AKA, and I just wanted to be home.
		I know I wanted to stay in Jersey.
		Yeah, well, with your family and everything like that.
		I get it.
		But I think there is probably a benefit for a fight.
		Like, a lot of great boxers used to go to the Catskills, right?
		And they would do their training up there.
		And then, like a lot of guys today, they go to Big Bear.
		You know, like Triple G goes up there.
		And a lot of other fighters have their camps up there.
		De La Hoya always did his camps up in Big Bear.
		It's like something about a camp that's very attractive, too.
		Someone thinking about, oh, he's locked down in camp.
		You like it.
		Yeah, your tunnel vision and all that.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, I need my family around me.
		I need my friends around me.
		I feel good in Jersey.
		I feel like I built it.
		I built it up.
		That's why people come to me now.
		Not only me, obviously, for Mark and Ricardo, probably more so for those guys, but I showed them that it could be done here.
		That's why we have the atmosphere that we do, I think.
		That is true.
	You definitely were one of the most successful pioneers of MMA coming out of there.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, you know, it's cool to see all these young guys come and train with us, and we have a pretty good team now, plus Eddie Alvarez is there, and he's a pioneer as well.
	When you see Eddie go over to 1FC, does any of that ever look attractive to you?
	I mean, for sure.
	You know, I actually only have one fight left on my contract now.
	Oh, yeah?
	You know, but I've been in the UFC. It'll be 13 years I've been in the UFC coming in February.
	But you see Mighty Mouse went over there.
	Yeah, Mighty Mouse.
	You know, I mean, money talks, you know?
	Yeah.
	Well, especially at this point in your career.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Exactly.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But, I mean, honestly, if I was being straight up, where do I want to finish my career?
		I do want to finish in the UFC, you know?
		I mean, I felt like I got in the UFC 5-0, you know?
		I pretty much grew up here.
		That's crazy.
		So, it'd be nice to finish in here, but, you know, everything has to make sense.
		Well, you know, you're still near the top of the heap, right?
		I mean, you just fought Max Holloway.
		How long ago was that?
		In July.
		Yeah.
		Not that long ago.
		Not too long ago.
		And it was close, you know, obviously, to fight with Korean Zombie.
		I mean, I feel like I didn't get a chance to get going.
		He got me with a good shot.
		Motherfucker hits hard.
		He does hit hard, you know.
		And, you know, I was really down on myself.
unidentified		That was tough.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was a tough one.
		I was really down on myself for a while.
		Nobody takes losses well.
		No one competitive.
		Yeah, no one competitive.
		I definitely took it pretty bad.
		Christmas was right here.
		I took the fight on short notice, but I never once took a fight and didn't think I was going to win.
		How many weeks did you take it off?
		Two weeks.
		I was in shape.
		I was training.
		Not like I was training for a fight, but I was training pretty good.
		I believe in myself.
		I thought I was going to go there, put this dude away, and come home and enjoy Christmas.
		But it turned out to be the opposite.
		A little depressing during Christmas time.
		You try to be nice with your family and love them with your family, but what's weighing over my head is I just got fucking TKO'd.
unidentified		Yeah, that's...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The emotional side of fighting, like the emotional side of losses, like when you see guys just weeping in their locker room.
		Remember, the hardest one for me was Aldo after McGregor knocked him out.
		And he was just in his locker room just weeping like, God damn, that dude.
		That's a tough one, too, because you know that's going to stay in infamy.
		You know what I mean?
		Yeah, forever.
		Always.
		Connor's probably the worst guy because he's going to tell everybody about it and everybody's going to want to cover it.
		That's just the way it goes.
		It was such a picture-perfect punch, too.
		Yeah, I mean...
		And he slides back, boom, drops that left hand in there.
		I was in the crowd, and I was told I was getting the winner of that fight.
		And then when it went down like that, I just knew that wasn't going to happen.
		Really?
		Yeah, I just felt it.
		I thought Aldo was going to win back then.
		Did you really?
		We didn't know much about Conor, I feel like, at that point.
		So I thought Aldo was going to win, and I was going to get a rematch with him.
		And then when Conor did that, and then you hear him talking about, I'm going to go up to 55.
		I'm like, damn, there goes my chance.
		Yeah, the Aldo fight was crazy because I think that was the first time that anybody ever really disrespected Aldo.
		Because Aldo was the fucking man for so long.
		The crazy thing about Aldo is he's still only 32 years old.
		We were talking about that with the Marlon fight.
		Is he really?
		Yeah, I know.
		What do you think?
		Well, they've been following him since the WEC. I mean, he was like 20 then, so he kind of has to be 32. I mean, he was WEC champion a long fucking time ago, man.
		You know, I mean, you go back and think about when he knocked out Cub Swanson with that flying knee.
		That was a long time ago.
		It was like a double knee, right?
		Yes, boom, yeah.
		Dude, he was so fucking athletic.
		Explosive.
		I don't know.
		When did he stop throwing leg kicks?
		I don't know, man.
		I would like to ask him.
		I wonder if he's got injuries or something like that.
		I know.
		When we fought the first time, he threw a leg kick, and then I took him down on it on the second one.
		And then that's the last time he threw a leg kick in both our fights.
		It's crazy because if you watch his early career, like, watch the Uriah Faber fight.
		It is one of the most horrific displays of destroying someone's leg you've ever seen in a fight.
		Yeah.
		It's so fast, dude.
		Oh, man.
unidentified		Stop!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No loading, just...
		No, yeah, that's the thing.
		No loading.
		He would just whip those hips in there.
		Well, you know, he was a soccer player.
		Like, a really good soccer player.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever seen videos of him play soccer?
		I've seen him juggle the ball and whatnot.
		He's like a pro.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, he could have been a professional soccer player.
		Right, yeah.
		And I think soccer players, first of all, their legs are so conditioned because they're basically sprinting all the time.
		They're running up and running back.
		And they're going left and right and left and right.
		They're always side to side.
		They apparently have the highest instances of ACL blowouts.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That makes sense.
		Oh, yeah.
		But because of those legs, Aldo, he was like a whip.
		Those legs would just crack.
		That's what I thought.
		When him and Marlon were going to fight, I'm like, ooh, we're going to see some crazy leg kicks.
		But neither of them really got him off.
		I wonder.
		I wonder why Aldo stopped throwing leg kicks.
		I really wonder.
		I mean, he's got to be good success with his hands.
		He's got to be something, right?
		Some injury.
		Maybe a hip injury.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Could be.
		A lot of those kickboxer guys, as they get older, their hips start falling apart.
		You know, it seems to be a big issue with some guys.
		Like John Wayne Parr needs a hip replacement.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he just had his last fight.
		He won in a boxing match.
		Yeah, I saw that.
		Which is great.
		Huge for him.
		He's the man, dude.
unidentified		I love that guy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's such a good guy to follow.
		He's such a good energy, such a positive dude.
		And so is his whole family.
		He's just a great, happy dude.
		His daughter's got like 30 fights already or something.
unidentified		His daughter's a beast.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's a beast, man.
		I think she's like 14 now.
		She's a beast.
unidentified		It's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's something special.
		But that poor guy, he's been fighting over the last year or two with a really fucked up hip.
		Yeah.
		I mean, it's falling apart, man.
		They're like, you've got to have a hip replacement.
		The whole inside is just torn apart.
		Right.
		I'm not looking forward to the future, man.
		You know what I'm looking forward to?
		The future with regenerative medicine.
unidentified		Well, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you had stem cells.
		I had some stem cells on my shoulder.
		Yeah, we talked about that in Jersey when I saw you.
		You don't give it enough time.
		I know.
		The thing about the stem cells is it really takes like four or five months before it actually kicks in and starts healing things.
		And a lot of guys like yourself, I mean, you don't gather any dust.
		You ain't waiting for shit.
		I'm chopping at the bit, man.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But that's the problem.
		But the one on my shoulder, it did help.
		It helped a lot.
		And I bet, you know, early onset arthritis.
		And they did the Wharton jelly.
		Yeah.
		And I got that.
		And like six weeks later, you know, I don't know.
		I want another round, I feel like.
		I don't know if it works like that.
		Yeah, another round would definitely help.
		But I think, really, Panama's the place for you.
unidentified		It's right here, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Go down there and get that super sauce.
		My neck's jacked up, too, a little bit, so I wonder if they help that stuff.
		What does it help with your neck?
		I got, I guess, stenosis of the neck.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So your discs are shrinking.
		Yeah, I have that, too.
		Yeah, my discs and the holes where the nerve run through is kind of...
		So I got...
		It's tightening.
		Actually, it was kind of like a little bit before Holloway, more and more so after...
		I got epidural on my neck and I was getting the tingles down my arm, weakness in my hand a little bit.
		And the epidural really didn't even work, but I just did therapy and it got better.
		But it still bugs me a little bit.
		There's a place, I think they have an office in Dallas, they have one here in Santa Monica, and then there's a place in Germany, it's called Lifespan Medicine, and they do this procedure called Regenikine.
		Right, right.
		And Regina Keene is what, you've heard of it?
		Yeah.
		Kobe Bryant, rest in peace.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He went to Germany to get it back in his day.
		And so did Peyton Manning went out there.
		Right, right.
		A bunch of other athletes.
		And Dana.
		Dana actually went out there.
		They do it in the U.S. now?
		They do it in the U.S. now.
		I've had it a bunch of times.
		I had it done on my neck on a bulging disc that was doing the same thing.
		My hands were going numb.
		That kind of shit.
		And it fixed it.
		I also had it recently on my lower back because I was getting sciatica.
		Same shit.
		That fixed it.
		It's basically a more potent version of platelet-rich plasma.
		They heat the blood and they add something to it.
		It's just a radical anti-inflammatory.
		It's good because it's your own blood.
		You know, they take your own blood out, spin it, and do this procedure to it.
		And then it takes like 12 hours, I think, 10 or 12 hours for it to become this...
		It looks like this yellow serum.
		And then this yellow serum they inject into all your discs.
		I'm telling you, I had my friend Dean Del Rago down there.
		Dean had a real fucked up neck from a car accident.
		Some lady...
		He rides a motorcycle.
		Some lady fucking clipped him and he went flying.
		It fucked his neck up to the point where...
		He's a comedian.
		We're hanging around the comedy store.
		And he gets nervous if anybody comes near him.
		Like he's worried someone's going to accidentally bump into him.
		Because he was in so much pain.
		Because he was like real stiff.
		And so I sent him to that Lifespan Medicine place.
		And dude, he was fixed up.
		Like within a week or two, he was back.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I would love to just be like a pincushion, but it would get me everywhere.
		Well, they can do crazy shit now, but it's a lot of money if you want to travel to all these different spots.
		But there's real benefit in this.
		My hope is that it's like cell phones.
		Remember when fucking cell phones were giant and they cost a billion dollars?
		They were so expensive.
		And now you can get a cheap phone.
		I saw a flip phone the other day at Best Buy for 50 bucks.
		I was like, you can get a phone for 50 bucks.
		That's amazing.
		Yeah, so hopefully stem cells goes that route.
		That's what I'm hoping.
		And I'm hoping that...
		See, the problem is, like, healthcare providers.
		Like, if you have insurance.
		Like, insurance doesn't want to cover any of that shit.
		No, I know.
		But it doesn't make sense.
unidentified		They want to cover a surgery, but a surgery is 30 grand.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I always wonder, what's the politics behind that?
		I'm sure there's something.
		Someone's got to make money.
		The hospitals deal with the insurance companies and everybody's working together and they're all making money.
		They don't want to cover these things because they're treating stem cells like it's a drug.
		And so they're treating it like what you're doing is you're taking a drug.
		So these drugs have to go through the same evaluations that the FDA has.
		But if they do that, it's going to literally cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
		But with the FDA, didn't they just say CBD is no good?
		They're so crazy.
		Those people are awful.
		If they said that, anybody who said CBD is no good, you're awful.
unidentified		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That shit is so good for you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oxycontin, I think, is FDA approved.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, come on, what are we doing here?
		Well, I think it's the same thing.
		They think of CBD as an untested drug.
		Right.
		Regardless of how many people have positive effects from it and positive benefits from it, the way they look at it is like this stuff is in competition probably with like non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen and things along those lines.
		Right.
		But CBD is so much better than all those things.
		Yeah.
		I mean, it's natural too.
		Yeah.
		Do you do it?
		Do you take it?
		I have, yeah.
		I take it.
		How much do you take?
		I mean, I need to be a little more consistent with it, you know?
		I'm just like...
		You know, my wife, I'll go get stuff done.
		Stan's like, how do you feel?
		I'm like, I feel pretty good.
		I don't know.
		I always feel pretty good.
		So I'm like such a bad gauge on that stuff.
		There's a problem with really mentally tough guys.
		Because mentally tough guys don't even think about what things feel like.
		They just go, fuck it, I'm good.
		I'm just gonna go.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Look at Kane.
		Kane literally destroyed his body because he was so mentally tough.
		Yeah, oh yeah.
		Because he's such a fucking savage that he had everything blow out on him.
		He did.
		His knees, his shoulders, his back, his neck, everything's fucked up.
		When I went to AKA, this was before he was in the UFC, and I went out there and I seen him sparring with...
		I think Paul Buentello, some other UFC guys, and they were just rotating on us, and he was just putting these dudes away, and they were just rotating on us.
		I'm like, who is this kid?
		That guy's going to be good.
		I'm like, no shit.
		Before he came to the UFC, there was so much hype around him.
		Everybody was like, this motherfucker doesn't get tired.
		As a heavyweight, you don't see that.
		Not like him.
		His cardio was insane.
		I remember when he fought Big Ben Rothwell.
		He would put it on guys, and they would have that 100-yard stare where they were like, what the fuck?
		Like, what is happening to me?
		How is this guy not tired?
		It didn't make sense.
		He was like a lightweight.
		Yeah, yeah.
		But 240 pounds.
		240 pounds, and great wrestling, great jiu-jitsu.
		Great everything.
		Boxing's second to none, man.
		Yeah.
		And just surprised you with his body, right?
		Because he didn't look ripped and cut.
		He looked like a guy who eats a lot of burritos.
		Right, yeah.
		Dude, to this day, I think, in his prime, I think he was...
		I mean, the argument is him and Fedor.
		Those are the two arguments.
		And then Stipe for his accomplishments, right?
	I mean, I would have loved to see Stipe versus Kane when Kane was in his prime.
	Yeah, that would have been great.
	That would have been amazing.
	But, you know, it's like...
	That model of the heavyweight, the Cain Velasquez model, I don't know if anybody else could do that.
	I don't know.
	I think his cardio was almost like supernatural.
	People always ask because people say, I've got good cardio and I could push always.
	And they're like, what is it from?
	I think it's all mental more than anything.
	I don't know.
	Maybe some people are born that way.
	I feel like even the summertime, when I wrestled in the summer, I wasn't in wrestling season shape.
	I was going to be the guy that was in better shape.
	Just your mind.
	Just my mind, yeah.
	I think most of it's my mind.
	Everybody's like, do you get tired?
	I'm like, fuck yeah, I get tired.
	I just keep going.
	I think everyone gets tired.
	Because then you see some guys that are really, really good and they're just scared to get tired.
	So they're scared to push themselves.
	I've seen that in wrestling a lot.
	You kind of see it in MMA. Some guys where they're just scared to get tired so they don't push it too hard.
	Yeah, that's real, right?
	Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a mind game going on where you don't want to drain the battery, right?
		You don't want to...
		Like, it seemed like Marlon against Aldo, there was a little bit of that.
		Yeah, yeah.
		Just easing off the gas.
		Right.
		Especially after this Tahuto fight.
		Yeah.
		You know, I was in the corner from Marlon, and it was going great.
		That first round, I'm like, man, this is great.
		The pace is like how Marlon likes it.
		You know, it wasn't too crazy.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then Cejudo turned it on and I just seen the look in Marlon's face.
		I'm like, in the second round he got up and looked at me and I was like, you know, I'm trying to pump him up.
		Like, dude, come on, let's go.
		Dude, the first round looked like Marlon was going to establish himself as the best pound for pound fighter in the world.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He looked so good.
		His kickboxing was off the charts.
		That fucking left leg switch kick that he has to the head is like a whip.
		It's crazy the way he does it.
		It's so light and effortless.
		He just swings it up there.
		When Marlon Edson came into camp, my legs hurt for a good couple months trying to deal with them.
		Edson's terrifying.
		His switch kick is the fastest shit I've ever seen in my life.
		It doesn't even make sense.
		I don't even know how he moves that quick.
		He's a freak.
		He's super tight, too.
		I'm sure that's why.
		He's like a rubber band.
		You know what I mean?
		It snaps as it goes fast.
		Super tight, like in what way?
		He's not very flexible.
		Really?
		Yeah.
		I mean, he could wheel kick and do all that stuff, because I think he was doing it since he was a kid, so his body's made for that.
		But as far as being a flexible guy, he's not very flexible.
		I mean, I'm not very flexible either, but I'm not kicking like him.
		That's interesting.
		I would have thought that guy would be real flexible.
		Yeah, no.
		What about Marlon?
		Marlon's probably a little bit more flexible.
		He's still not very flexible either.
		That's crazy.
		How does he throw that switch kick to the head like that?
		I just think their bodies from doing it forever, they're like made to do that.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And their wheel kicks like crazy.
		Yeah.
		But as far as like touching their toes, you know, we'd go to yoga together and you hear Marlon, ooh, oh, ooh.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How often do you do yoga?
		I try to do it once a week when I'm not in camp.
		When I'm in camp, I don't do it as much because that kind of takes away from something else, but I try to do it once a week.
		Hot yoga?
		Hot, yeah, I do hot.
		Dude, I love it.
		I love it.
		And everyone that's never done it, they need to fucking do it because everyone's like, oh, yoga, yoga.
		I'm like, bro, it's hard as shit.
		Hard as shit.
		There's no bullshit.
		I've been in some yoga classes that if my boy wasn't in there, I might have walked out because I'm tired.
		I'm like, can't let this guy see me walk out.
		The place I go to, they don't let you leave.
		They're like, you can't leave.
		Just make a commitment when you're here.
		If you can't take it, just sit down and try to rest it off.
		Try to take a couple poses off.
		Try to get your heart rate back down.
		But it's hot as fuck.
		I've done some yoga.
		Me and my wife went to the yoga class once.
		It was me and her.
		And it was so hot.
		And the lady's like, how you guys feel with the heat?
		And I'm like...
		Please, Renee.
unidentified		Say it's too hot.
unidentified		Say it's too hot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's one of the most underrated, difficult exercises.
		Because you think of it as housewives or moms.
		A bunch of gals.
		A bunch of hot girls in yoga pants.
		I'm the only dude in there sometimes.
		Me too, sometimes.
		There's more guys in my place now.
		Sometimes it's actually half and half, which is kind of interesting.
		I think it's great for you.
		When I say I'm done fighting, I'm sure that's something I'll do more often.
		For me, too, it's like a 90-minute meditation session, too.
		Because all you're thinking about is those poses.
		All I'm thinking about is concentrating on maintaining a steady breath and then holding the positions as long as possible.
		It's like the instructor or yogi is giving you...
		Positive affirmations.
		I mean, some it's a little wonky, but you know, it's always like a good message.
		Yeah, sometimes.
		Some of them go a little bit crazy.
		Some of them try to give you life lessons.
		Yeah, well, yeah.
		Settle down.
		Well, and then also like, oh, this is your lower intestines is getting pinched.
		I'm like, what do you mean?
		I'm bending over.
		Yeah, yeah.
		It's massaging.
		You're descending colon.
		No, it's definitely not.
		It's definitely not.
		You're just stretching.
		Stop.
		Stop.
		I sweat like a maniac in there.
		It's great.
		It's definitely good for you.
		Oh my god, you can lose amazing amounts of weight in there.
		But I just think for maintaining strength in your joints, it always feels to me, and maybe this is just my head, but it's helping all the connections.
		Like, shoulders and hips and knees and, like, all the other stuff that doesn't necessarily get the same kind of workout when you're just doing regular stuff.
		Like, weight training or kettlebells or kickboxing or whatever.
		You're working out, like, holding your leg in one certain position and, like, leaning forward and just maintaining that post.
		Static holds, yeah.
		Yeah, I feel like it tightens all your connections up.
		And it also increases your range of motion.
		It does.
		It opens you up.
		I feel so much better when I'm doing yoga.
		I would like to do it more often, to be honest with you.
		I don't want to miss hitting pads or jiu-jitsu and all that stuff.
		That's the thing, right?
		For a mixed martial artist, there's so many skills to concentrate on.
		There's so much.
		If you're a boxer, what are you going to do?
		You've got to run and you've got to box.
		That's it.
		Right.
		When you're a mixed martial artist, god damn, you gotta think about everything.
		And you don't want to overdo one and underdo another, you know?
		How do you know what to do?
		You know, I came up with a formula and it seems to work.
		What's your formula?
		Like, you know, just my schedule is I do jiu-jitsu Monday, Friday.
unidentified		I spar either, well, it used to be Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'll wrestle Wednesday and Friday and then strength and conditioning between all that.
		Jesus.
		Yeah.
		Just hearing that makes me tired.
		But when is your strength and conditioning schedule?
		I do that Monday and Wednesdays.
		Monday and Wednesdays.
		And when you do it, do you do it before MMA training?
		I usually do grappling or wrestling before and then do that after.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Why do you do that?
		That's just the way it kind of worked out for me.
		So, do you do it the same day?
		I mean, the same time of day?
		Like, noon?
		Like, you'll do your...
		No, I'll just do it in the morning.
		I'll do jiu-jitsu.
		Oh, okay.
		And then, at the afternoon, I'll...
		Oh, okay.
		So, you give yourself a chance to recover.
		Yeah.
		Although, it's like 10 and 2, so it's quick.
		Just enough to eat.
		Yeah, just enough to eat and drive.
		You know, Jersey's a commuter state, so I drive everywhere, man.
		None of the places I train are in my town, so I'm always on the move.
		Jersey's got a lot of fucking traffic, too.
		It does, but it's predictable.
		Yeah, predictable traffic.
		You know what I mean?
		You know if you miss the rush hour, you're good.
		Here, you never know what you're getting into.
		Dude, I've been coming home from a comedy club at 2 o'clock in the morning.
		I hit bumper to bumper traffic.
		Yeah, that's crazy.
		There's too many of us.
		I was actually, I didn't even realize I stayed right across the street from the comedy store.
		Oh, which place?
unidentified		Mondrian?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, the Mandarin.
		Mondrian?
		What is it?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Mondrian.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Mondrian, right.
		Mondrian, yeah.
		Yes.
		Why can't I? See, when someone says something wrong, sometimes you go, how do you say it right?
		Mondrian.
		Yeah, that is right across the street.
		Yeah, I didn't realize until I woke up the next day.
		I'm like, oh shit, I should have went there last night.
		Yeah, anytime you want to go there, even if I'm not there, just let me know.
		I'll set it up.
		So when you are in Tom's River, what is a typical day for you?
		When you leave your house on a Monday morning, what time do you get going?
		What time do you eat?
		Yeah, I get up like 8 o'clock, I guess.
		I'm not an early guy.
		I get up at 8, I'll eat something.
		I'm out of the house by 8.30, 8.45.
		Get the Ricardos for like 10 a.m.
		practice, 9.30 practice.
		Practice for two hours, drive back home, which is like about 45 to an hour.
		And when you're practicing, are you practicing with the Gi?
		No, no Gi.
		Never?
		Not in a long time.
		Ricardo actually, believe it or not, told us not to.
		Really?
		Yeah.
		I do believe it.
		He said the Gi will always be there.
		He said you always go back to the Gi when you're done.
		He's like, right now it's just not applicable for MMA. I'm so glad he said that.
		Yeah.
		Man, that is...
		I don't know.
		Hopefully he doesn't get mad for saying that.
		Well, that was a giant problem with, like, so many Brazilians were so connected to the Gi that they would be offended if you didn't train with the Gi.
		They'd get really mad at you.
		That's what I thought when I first went to him.
		I'm like, oh, man, we're going to have to do a lot of Gi stuff now, you know?
		We did a little bit, you know, mess with it.
		It is good for you.
		It's great for defense.
		I think it's good for people like myself where I use a lot of wrestling and athleticism for my jiu-jitsu because it kind of takes that away and makes you, you know, pay attention to the technique.
		Yeah, it makes you concentrate on defense because you can't just muscle out of things.
		And with a lot of fighters, especially real explosive guys, they get used to just yanking out of things.
		When someone's got collars and grips on your sleeves, you can't yank out of much.
		You've got to systematically think about what you're doing.
		Yeah, you've got to apply pressure.
		You've got to have good position.
		You've got to be patient, too.
		You can't expose yourself because you're impatient and you just want to get out of a spot.
		That's the positive aspect of the gi.
		The negative aspect of the gi is when guys go from the gi to MMA and they're looking for those handles and the handles aren't there.
		But Eddie always told us, just do the gi, but don't use collars.
		Don't use collars and sleeves.
		So my gi game was really just no gi in a gi.
		Honestly, probably when I did the gi, I probably didn't grab as much because I wasn't used to it.
		In desperado times, I'll grab the gi.
		Yeah, right, right.
		But for the most point, I think you're better off just using overhooks and underhooks and gable grips and just working your same positions that you do in no gi.
		So then you're doing the same game always.
		Yeah.
		But I'm glad Ricardo said that because to have such an accomplished Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu artist like him, who's got this gigantic school and who was an accomplished fighter himself and now is a judge, to have him say that, like, yes.
		For a long time, people got so connected to this idea that you need to do the gi in order to be good in MMA, which is no gi.
	It's slippery.
	Yeah, I mean, you know, even like Gary, Tonin, and Gordon Ryan, I don't think those guys are in the Gi very often.
	Very rarely.
	Yeah.
	I don't think that Gordon Ryan has done some matches recently in the Gi.
	Maybe Gary Tona, too.
	I mean, they know how to use it.
	Yeah, oh yeah.
	Yeah, but it's, you know, it just makes everything more, you know, just there's so much more friction.
	There's so many things you can do in the gi you cannot do in an MMA fight or in a no-gi contest.
	Yeah, it's really just not applicable at all, so...
	That's good.
	I figure when I'm old, I'll put the gi on, you know?
	Yeah, well, there's guys in my jiu-jitsu class that are in their 60s.
	Yeah, that's what's great.
	Nice and slow.
	It's something I'll definitely do in the future.
	So you go there, you do that class, and like how far, you're driving a lot to all these different spots?
	How much time are you in your car?
	A couple hours a day.
	Oh, shit.
	So you have to have a reliable fucking car.
	Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, I do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I got a Pine Belt, it's a bunch of ships, so I get to drive a nice Ram or Silverado.
		Oh, you got to deal with the Dodge dealership?
		Yeah, I drive it for the demo, and then I turn it in for the thing.
unidentified		Oh, that's great.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But I also got a Cadillac CTS-V, too.
		I know you're in the class.
		Dude, I love CTS-Vs.
		Those things are beasts.
		Yeah, it's fun.
		I got a little stage 2 tune on it and stuff.
		Oh, really?
		Yeah, yeah.
		It can move.
		It moves.
		That's a fast car.
		That's a good Italian guy in Jersey car, too.
unidentified		Yeah, it's perfect.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's perfect.
		So, have you ever thought about living somewhere where everything is so connected to Tom's River you would never move?
		Yeah, I mean, well now Nick Catone is in Brick too, and he has a huge facility in Brick.
		So that's where we do a lot of our sparring.
		How far is that?
		That's only 20 minutes away.
		So that's, you know, he's been there for now a couple years.
		And he's like a 30,000 square foot gym.
		Oh, really?
		Two full cages, a bunch of mat space.
unidentified		Oh, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a phenomenal facility.
		What's it called?
		Nick Catone's Mixed Martial Arts Academy.
		Oh, okay.
		Cool.
		That's awesome.
		Man, it's amazing that these gyms are, they're so good now.
		It's like, it was so hard in the beginning to find one facility that had This kind of place.
		Even in the country, there's only a couple gyms, whether it was an AKA or a Jackson's.
		When I first started, I graduated college, and it was like in May, I graduated college, I wanted to, you know, Ultimate Fighter, the first season Ultimate Fighter was on, I think was, they had the finale in May.
		I watched it with my teammates, I'm like, dude, I'm giving this a try, you know?
		Koscheck was on the season, he wrestled for Edinburgh, I wrestled for Clarion, we're in the same conference.
		So I see him, I'm like, oh man, look, he's doing pretty well, I'm gonna give this a shot.
		So I found a place to train and Kurt Pellegrino actually had a gym near my town.
		So I called him up.
		I knew him through wrestling.
		He's like, I'm actually moving to Florida.
		He's like, but you can come train here for a couple days before I go.
		I'm like, alright.
		So I came there and a new guy was taking his gym over and so that's where I ended up staying.
		And this gym was no bigger than this room here.
		Wow.
		You know, and you see all these young kids have this 30,000 square facility.
		I'm like, dude, you guys are fucking spoiled, man.
		You know?
		Yeah, it's a different world now.
		I mean, there's no other sport like MMA where if you go back to the 90s and then you look at it today, it's unrecognizable.
		Oh, yeah.
		It is.
		Just martial arts has changed.
		Like you say it all the time, you know, how quickly UFC or MMA changed martial arts.
		Forever.
		Yeah.
		We'll never look at it the same way again.
		Martial arts have evolved more over the last 20 years than they have over the last 20,000 years.
		Yeah, and that's just...
		I don't think anything has done that?
		No.
		Go back and watch UFC 1 and then go watch UFC 246. It's like, what the fuck, man?
		Everyone is so evolved now.
		And even across weight classes, it's just such an interesting thing that we figured out how to do it right.
		Yeah.
		I mean, shit, even when I started 2005 to now, it's changed a whole bunch.
		Yeah, no, for sure.
		Yeah, I mean, 2005 was when The Ultimate Fighter was on, right?
		Dude, how crazy is it that Diego Sanchez is still out there throwing?
		Yeah, that's amazing.
		He's the last of the Mohicans.
		He really is, right?
		He's the last one on that show?
		Yes.
		Oh, for sure.
		Yeah.
		I mean, Stefan Bonner's long gone.
		Forrest Griffin's long gone.
		He's working for the UFC now.
		And fucking Diego Sanchez.
		Still screaming yes and doing cartwheels.
		He's a special dude, man.
		He's crazy.
		He's a wild motherfucker, man.
		He is.
		He's a...
		Just his outlook.
	I mean, he was kind of strange on the show.
	I don't know if you call him strange, but just like a different personality.
	He's weird.
	Definitely weird.
	But he's also got a mind like a fucking bank vault.
	He's intense.
	He is.
	I mean, his will's unbreakable.
	That guy does not quit.
	He's lost before.
	He's been stopped before, but you ain't getting him to quit.
	I remember when he fought BJ. He just kept coming.
	I mean, he got his head split open with that head kick.
	I was like, damn, this guy's nuts.
	Yeah, no, I mean, in all of his fights, I mean, he's an animal.
	And he's such an entertaining guy.
	I mean, you think about some of his fights that he fought, even at 170, against guys like Jake Allenberger, Martin Campman.
	Campman had his face hanging off.
	I mean, he had giant cuts all over Diego's face.
	And in the third round, Diego's chasing him.
	Just chasing him down.
	Like, God damn, he's tough.
	His willpower is second to none, I think.
	It's insane.
	It's insane.
	And he's still out there.
	He is.
	He's still out there throwing.
	He is, yeah.
	It's impressive.
	I mean, these guys are setting the bar high, you know?
	Yeah, real high.
	Yeah.
	And it's interesting, like, Diego, I've always thought, was like a guy who could have benefited from a 165-pound class.
	I feel like the UFC, I've been saying this forever, I'm a broken record, but I think they should reorganize the weight classes and put weight classes every 10 pounds.
	Yeah.
	There's too many big gaps, like the 85 to 205 pound gap.
	That's crazy.
	That's so big.
	I mean, if they have time...
	Look, they have...
	Plenty of fighters, right?
	They just should move some of these weight classes around.
	I think they should do it.
	Even Dos Anjos, too.
	Him and Chiesa, you know?
	I think Dos Anjos is probably a 65-pounder.
	Probably.
	He looks so much smaller than Chiesa.
	Dude, Chiesa, how the fuck did he ever make 55?
	I don't get it, man.
	I've seen him after he made it.
	I'm like, dude, you were always a 70-pounder.
	Yeah, always.
	I just was really impressed with how he was able to control Rafael Dos Anjos.
	I didn't get to see the fight.
	I was actually flying down here.
	But yeah, I've seen the highlights.
	I think he took them down five or six times.
	Yeah, man.
	His arms are so long.
	They were in positions where a lot of guys would have to hold on, but he could reach all the way the fuck around and clamp his hands together.
	You're like, oh, what an advantage that is.
	It's like when I train with the beat.
	That's how I feel.
unidentified		Oh, right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's like 6'2".
		Yeah.
		At 145. So it's like, he can cover my head and my toes and he's only, you know, it's only half of him.
		He's got the weirdest style, man.
		Because...
		His style is like, you know, he does like scissor takedowns, but it's got like a lot of wheel kicks and 360 roundhouse kicks.
		Kung fu, right?
		It is kung fu, right?
		It's a real kung fu.
		But also with wrestling.
		Wing Chun or something?
		Wing Chun?
		Sanda?
		Oh, Sanda, yeah.
		Sanda?
		But I think it's a form of kung fu.
		Oh, yeah, it's kung fu.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, he's one of the more unusual guys in the sport.
		Yeah, he is.
		He's got a quiet demeanor, too, you know?
		Well, he looks like Abraham Lincoln.
unidentified		He does.
unidentified		He does.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly like him.
		As soon as he walked in, that's what everyone said.
		Well, everybody says, too, that you haven't even seen what he can do.
		Like, in the gym, you see what he can do.
		And, like, I was talking to Mark about him, and he's like, dude, this was, like, back before Zabib had really made a name for himself.
		And he's like, that fucking guy.
		He goes, that guy's super, super talented.
		I was really impressed with Calvin Cater, though, in their last fight.
		Yeah, you know, that third round seemed like Zabit kind of lost some steam.
		Yeah.
		And Calvin started coming on a little bit.
		Calvin was digging to the body a lot, too.
		He's got great hands, Calvin.
		As good as anybody.
		That jab might be one of the best jabs in the UFC. His fucking right hand, too.
		The right hand that he knocked out Lamas with.
		Dude, Calvin, he's on another level with his striking, particularly with his hands.
		He does a lot of training with boxers.
		He's a Boston guy, right?
		And only getting better.
		He's just beginning to get into the top tier of guys.
		I mean, he beats Shane Burgos with that beautiful knockout, and the Ricardo Lamas knockout was just spectacular.
		So Lamas had fought for the title.
		Lamas was the top guy.
		And then the Zabit fight, when Zabit is right there at the very top of the heap at 145, and who knows what the fuck would happen if that was a five-rounder.
		Yeah, I know.
		Because Calvin was putting it on him.
		He was at that point.
		And when Zabit took him down to 30, he basically just hung on in the end.
		Yeah, he found the way just to make it through.
		Yeah.
		Calvin's dangerous.
		He's dangerous and getting better.
		Boy, what a fucking division, man.
		Your division that you're leaving.
		The division that you're leaving.
		Yeah, good.
		35 is no fucking sweeter, let's be real.
		There's a lot of killers there too, but you'll be a bigger guy.
		Yeah, I mean, I still don't think I'll be the biggest guy either at 35, but I'll definitely be, you know, much more comparable to the rest of them.
		Well, it was interesting because even when you were fighting at 55, a lot of people were saying that you should be 35. Yeah.
		I was like, you might be right.
		Like, if he weighs 55, a lot of the guys that weigh 55 compete at 35. At 35, yeah.
		Shit, what's this?
		Oh, my God.
		Lockhart.
		George Lockhart was on.
		Oh, yeah.
		And he's on here.
		And he said, I can make 25. Slow down, George.
		I don't know about 25. I don't know about 25. Yeah, you look like T.J. Dillshaw.
		That was a mistake.
		Oh, yeah.
		That was...
		Out of all the...
		There's only two...
		Well, his was real bad all the way up and to the weigh-in.
		TJ, the way he looked, you know, he looked like he was starving to death.
		That's what he looked like.
unidentified		He did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, his cheeks were sucked in, his face was sucked in.
		It was a really bad decision, though, even because he had to, you know, take EPO to try to train.
		Yeah.
		It was just terrible.
		You know, 35, he was the fucking champ and a really good fighter at 35. And to take that stuff, I don't know.
		You know, Cody Garbrandt was accusing him of taking it even before then.
		I don't know if that's true.
		He said he didn't.
		Cody's actually training with us now, too.
		Oh, is he?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a good move for him.
		That's a very good move for him.
		Had Mark been working together?
		He was out for a week.
		He went back.
		He's still at Alpha Male 2. Oh, that's right.
		He was talking to me about that.
		Mark was giving him some real good pointers on some of the things that he does or exposes himself and how to make sure he's more protected and make sure he's more elusive, more difficult to read, do some different kind of things.
		But yeah, he's been with us for a little bit now.
		He went back to Alpha Mel, but he's coming back and finished the camp with us.
		He's got sick hands.
		He's got some of the sick hands.
		I see Marlon, see all these guys, but Cody's hands are so fast, man.
		Yeah, he's fast as fuck.
		He is.
		There it is.
		He can come back, man.
		He can come back.
		He had that fight with TJ, lost, lost in the rematch, and then lost again to Pedro Munoz.
		So you're like, God damn, he's just so gameful.
		But all three of those fights, he was in them.
		He had those guys rocked.
		He did.
		That Pedro Munoz guy has a chin made out of fucking steel.
		He must.
		Steel.
		And he knows it, too.
		He's like, I'll stand in front of anybody.
		He has that belief in himself.
		And one of the nastiest guillotines in the game.
		That guy's got a fucking sick clamp.
		He gets a hold of your neck.
unidentified		Woo!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he'd be in trouble.
		Yeah.
		That whole division that you're about to drop down into, that's just as scary as a division you're in now.
		You can't go anywhere nowadays.
		Yeah, there's no picnics.
		There's no easy spot.
		Nothing easy.
		Even for the ladies.
		There's no easy ladies divisions either.
		Every weight class is getting deeper and deeper.
		And that's just the progression of the sport.
		Even when I first started, it wasn't at maybe the top 5, top 10. Now you've got top 20 or some dogs.
		What do you think you're going to do when you retire?
		I don't know.
		I don't know.
		I'm involved with UFC Gym.
		I have one in North Brunswick, New Jersey, one in Riverdale, you know, kind of partnered up with a couple guys.
		I'll definitely stay involved in this sport.
		How does that work?
		Does the UFC contact you and say, hey, Frankie, you want to be involved in one of these gyms?
		I think we sought them out, they sought me out type thing.
		That process took a while to get to where we're at now.
		I started inquiring about the UFC gym back in 2014, 2015. They must be popular as fuck though, right?
		Everybody would want to train at a UFC gym.
		Yeah, you would think.
		I think some people just, when they think UFC gym, they're like, I'm not the one to go fight anybody.
		But it's not even like that.
		UFC gym is a family atmosphere, man.
		You don't have to go take a fight class.
		You can go just train or take a martial arts class.
		Yeah.
		Now, when they have these UFC gyms, do they have sparring classes, jiu-jitsu classes, they have everything?
		Yeah, they have everything.
		So it's just like a fight gym?
		No, I'd say it's more like an LA Fitness.
		Like LA Fitness fucked a fight gym.
		Yes, exactly.
		Exactly.
		It's the love child L.A. fitness in a fight gym.
		And do you train at those places?
		I do from time to time, yeah.
		But I usually go up there and teach a class or a seminar, stuff like that.
		When you train with Mark, where do you train with Mark?
		His basement.
		Really?
		Yeah.
		Or like Nicotones, but mostly his basement.
		We started out in his basement.
		How big is his basement?
		It's big.
		He owns a pizzeria.
		He does pretty well.
		He kills it with the pizza business.
		I heard he has amazing pizza.
		No bullshit.
		It's some of the best pizza in Jersey.
		No bullshit.
		That's a big statement because Jersey has some killer pizza.
		Jersey has great pizza and it's very good.
		I'm not lying.
		Where's it at?
		It's in Woodbridge, New Jersey.
		Pino's Pizza.
		Pino's Pizza.
	Tell him Frankie sent you.
	And so his basement he has decked out like a gym?
	Yeah, it is.
	It is.
	Yeah, he's got a whole workout stuff.
	He's got a full basement, a pretty nice house.
	Then he put mats on the thing, and a bunch of our posters are up there.
	So it was cool.
	Oh, that's cool.
	But I started with Mark literally in 2005, and that's when we started in his basement.
	Now, did you have any striking experience before that?
unidentified		None.
unidentified		Just the seaside boardwalk, that's about it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, what was it like going from just straight wrestling to learning how to strike and wrestle together?
		It was a learning process, you know.
		Early in my career, I was able to take everybody down in those early fights.
		But I had some pretty good fights even before UFC. I fought Davidius, something Davidius.
		He was...
		This Ukraine-type fighter.
		I don't know.
		He fought in WEC. He beat some good guys, so he was decent.
		I was able to take him down.
		Then I fought Jim Miller, actually, my last fight for UFC. Oh, no shit.
		Yeah, we had a crazy fight.
		So, you know, I had good opponents right away, but the striking, you know...
		Something that I really liked.
		I was always into boxing growing up.
		I was always into fighting.
		I'm not from the hood or by any means, but everyone fights where I'm from.
		Everyone goes to the seaside and looks for fights.
		That's the nature of it.
unidentified		You hear Joey Diaz talking about it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jim Miller's a fucking beast.
		He is a beast, dude.
		I'm so glad he's healthy now because that guy struggled for so long with Lyme disease.
		Yeah, my wife has it actually.
		Does she really?
		She's been dealing with it since 2007. Dude, everybody gets it on the East Coast.
		It's crazy how many people have it.
		Yep.
		They say that we looked at this map online of all the areas in the East Coast where Lyme disease is prevalent and what percentage of the ticks have it.
		It's bananas.
		My wife's neurotic with it too because she's had to go through a bunch of treatments and whatnot.
		Is it still with her right now?
		It is.
		It's not as much, but she's got a bunch of issues, like autoimmune stuff, I think.
		She does the IV treatments, the sunlight therapy.
		It's like where they take the blood out, run it through UV, then put it back in you.
		Yeah, she's done a lot of that stuff.
		And she's starting to feel better.
		With Jim, I think he changed his diet.
		I think that was a big one.
		Just really started eating clean.
		Yeah, my wife eats pretty clean.
		She's kind of a holistic-ish type person.
		Yeah, the Lyme disease thing is fucking terrifying because for a long time they were diagnosing it incorrectly.
		Like people didn't know whether it was Lyme disease.
		And people would come in with all sorts of aches and pains and if they didn't have that big bullseye mark on them where the tick bit them, the doctor really had no idea what was going on and some doctors didn't have a lot of experience with it.
		Right.
		I got it when I was young.
		Did you?
		Yeah.
		But I'd seen the tick, so I got on medicine right away, and I was fine.
		But they say if you don't see the tick, then you just don't know you have it.
		And then if you don't get on medicine right away, then you're fucked.
		It's in you for probably ever.
		Yeah.
		It's not even the Lyme disease.
		It's the other diseases that get attached to it.
		Yes.
		Well, there's a thing called Morgellons.
		Have you ever heard of Morgellons?
		Yeah.
		Morgellons is a disease that a lot of people think is like a psychological disease.
		They think that you're imagining things because they would imagine that fibers were growing out of their scabs and they'd scratch themselves like crazy.
		Right.
		But I had some good insight.
		We did a television show called Joe Rogan Questions Everything.
		And we had some...
		One of the conversations I had was with a doctor who has Lyme disease.
		And that's when things got interesting because he was aware of it not just as a person who has the disease but also as a doctor.
		And he said one thing that all these people that have Morgellons have in common is that they all have Lyme disease.
		And he thinks that Lyme disease is not just one thing.
		That it's a host of other things that are attached to Lyme disease like non-identified pathogens.
		And that some of them have...
		Some sort of neurotoxic effect that changes the way you see things.
		So he was seeing things that weren't there.
		He was seeing worms crawling around in his eye that weren't there.
		That weren't there.
		And he realized, okay, this is probably what Morgellons is.
		These people are thinking that things are growing in their skin, but there's nothing there.
		But it's really because the Lyme disease and all the other toxins and pathogens that come with it are fucking with your neurology.
		They're fucking with your brain.
		Yeah, my wife said brain fog is probably the biggest thing that bothers her.
		And she went through a period where she was always tired.
		And it's crazy because my wife, you would never guess it because she's super high energy.
	She works out every day.
	Just pushes through it.
	Yeah, pushes through it.
	But it's definitely something she has to constantly treat.
	You remember when people had chronic fatigue syndrome?
	Yeah.
	Where'd that go?
	I don't know.
	Isn't that like a thing that everybody always had?
	But it's an excuse.
	Is that an excuse?
unidentified		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like a bullshit thing?
unidentified		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		See, that's you.
		That's these mentally tough guys.
		Like, come on.
		Fuck.
		How do I feel?
		I feel good.
		Let's go.
		That's it.
unidentified		I feel good.
unidentified		You know, I mean, my wife, it's...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Shit's expensive, too, all these damn dreamers.
		Oh, yeah.
		Well, Marcus Davis, all of his UFC money, he spent treating his wife for Lyme disease.
unidentified		Wow, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He wound up...
		He's a prison guard now.
		Is he really?
		Somewhere, yeah.
		I think he's still doing that.
		You know, he's good buddies with Della Grata.
		Yeah, yeah.
		Della Grata was keeping me posted on him, but he wound up...
		Like, his wife got it real bad.
		I think he spent more than a quarter million dollars just treating her.
		Not that much.
		I mean, unless my wife's not telling me, but...
		It's fucking bad.
		My friend Steve Rinella, he and his son got it, and the doctors didn't recognize it.
		The doctors, he was like, I think it might be Lyme disease.
		The doctors didn't think so.
		Then his son started getting Bell's Palsy.
		So half his face, and his son was little.
		I think he was like four or five.
		Half his face was going numb.
		Yeah, that happened to my wife, actually.
		She had Bell's Palsy at one time.
		Yeah.
		I think she got a flu shot, she said, and then came home, she got Bell's Palsy.
		Jesus Christ.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a fucking creepy disease, man.
unidentified		It is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because no one seems to know what to do with it.
		And, you know, they had a vaccine for a little while, but the problem with the vaccine was people were, and this is including my manager's dad, took the vaccine and got...
		Lyme disease from the vaccine.
		I keep hearing this with vaccines or even flu shot.
		People get the flu shot and they get the flu.
		I've heard that people get sick when they get the flu shot.
		But then I've talked to people that are vaccine people and they're like, no, you probably were already getting the flu and the flu shot that you got was the wrong one for whatever flu was in the area.
		Well, I also heard, too, they give you the strain from last year and then there's the new strain this year, so it's not even really helping you.
		Well, I think there's multiple strains each year, and I think they're basically just hedging their bets.
		I don't take flu shots.
		No, hell no.
		Yeah, but I think they do work if you get lucky and get the right one.
		I'm not too lucky.
unidentified		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I believe in vaccines for sure, but I don't think that it always works in the flu shot case.
		I'm not sure.
		Because, like, sometimes they just get it wrong.
		Like, they have the wrong strain.
		Right, right.
		What do we know?
		No, I know.
		It's a fucking touchy subject anyway.
		Two morons talking about flu shots.
		Exactly.
		But with the Lyme disease, there's a conspiracy theory that that's the government put that out in the wild.
		Well, there was a conspiracy theory that there was actually – look this up, Jamie, because there was actually something about this they were talking about recently where they were looking in – they were investigating the idea – That Lyme disease was a biological warfare weapon that accidentally got released.
		But this was through legitimate channels they were investigating this.
		It wasn't like some fucking tinfoil hat job.
		They released it on the East Coast, I guess.
		Not where they wanted to release it.
		Well, I think it got out.
		I think the idea is that somehow or another this disease had accidentally escaped their labs or while they were in the middle of treating people.
		Is a tick the only way you can get lion's disease?
		I believe so, yeah.
		And it's the ticks.
		I think it's deer ticks.
		I think it's places that have a high population of deer also have a high population of these ticks.
		And then when people get it, most of them don't realize they have it until it's too late.
		So you don't realize you have it, and then you miss the early rounds of antibiotics, which can knock it out.
		And then you get this chronic state like Jim Miller has and your wife has.
		Yeah, my buddy Steve Rinella that had it, he was fucked up.
		I mean, bad for...
		At least six months.
		When I saw him, he looked like he had lost, and he's a slim guy, but he looked like he had lost 20 or 30 pounds.
		And he just said he'd been dealing with the Lyme disease, and it just killed him.
		I mean, not killed him, but just really diminished his body.
		Yeah, it's a weird disease, man, because you can't find anybody who doesn't know anybody who has it when you're on the East Coast.
		Right, yeah.
		Everybody knows.
		A brother or a cousin or a wife.
		Someone has it.
		I love running the woods and trails, but in the summertime, it's like, man, I'm so nervous to get ticks.
		I don't want my kids going out in it.
		I think it takes 24 hours for it to set in, so once you do come back, if you have a tick on, you just have to remove it immediately.
		Yeah, that's what we do.
		Every time we go in the woods, tick checks.
		How do you get them off you, though?
		What if it's in the middle of your back and you're by yourself?
		Yeah, I guess like one of those back scratchers or something.
		Like, here it is.
		Was Lyme disease created as a bioweapon?
		Is this a legit website?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's HowStuffWorks.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		So it's not unlegit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, that's legit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		HowStuffWorks is very legit.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I just sort of read through the whole article.
		It's sort of unproven, but there are some people, I believe, that think that this is a thing.
		It just would be very hard to do is what the end of the article says.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ticks as weapons issue made headlines back in July 2019, thanks to the U.S. House of Representatives, Chris Smith, R. New Jersey, Republican New Jersey, who introduced legislation directing the Department of Defense to review claims that the Pentagon researched tick-based bioweapons in the mid-20th century.
		The amendment passed.
		Smith said he was inspired by a number of books and articles suggesting that significant research had been done in the U.S. government.
		Facilities including Fort Detrick, Maryland and Plum Island, New York to turn ticks and other insects into bioweapons.
		Imagine if those cunts created a fucking disease and now everyone on the East Coast has it.
unidentified		What the fuck?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because it's mostly out there.
		That's what's fucked up.
		Yeah, it is.
		It is.
		Isn't Lyme a place in Connecticut?
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Is that why they named it?
		Lyme disease?
		I mean, I think that's why they named it that.
		Have you heard of the Rocky Mountain tick?
		Yeah, isn't that kind of the West Coast version of...
		Well, it's Texas.
		It's, I think, or the Lone Star Tick.
unidentified		That's what it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's different.
		The Lone Star one.
		It makes you not like meat or something?
		Yes.
		Alpha Gal.
		Alpha Galactose.
		It does something.
		I think that's the word.
		It makes you allergic to meat.
		Allergic to meat.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so you literally go the rest of your life and you can't eat meat.
		You have to eat, like, chicken and fish.
		Shoot me.
		What is that?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the first cases of it were there in 1975. Yeah, the goddamn government.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're creating bioweapons.
		I'm not surprised.
		I talked to this Soviet Union guy when I was doing that television show, and he was saying that they had all sorts of bioweapons that they were developing over there.
		Giant pits filled with anthrax.
		Are there ticks in other countries?
		Or Lyme disease in other countries?
		That's a good question.
		That's a very good question.
		That would sort of explain a lot of that.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		While we're in Conspiracyville, have you seen the coronavirus stuff?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's conspiracies about it?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's a conspiracy?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		There's like a level 4 bioweapon facility opened in Wuhan.
		Oh, wow.
		Not too long ago.
		Oh, great.
		The suggestions are online.
		I don't know.
		I'm not saying it.
		The suggestions are online.
		Something might have leaked just like this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Have you consulted with Sam Tripoli or Eddie Bravo?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I have seen tweets.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I'll just say I've seen tweets.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		From who?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		From Sam or Eddie?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I think Sam's retweeted some stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Of course he has.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I've seen other stuff online, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		I mean, I think whatever news is out there, there's always some conspiracy theory that goes with it, right?
		That's true.
		Even if it's like Locke...
		Look, I saw conspiracy theories that Connor threw the fight, or Cowboy threw the fight with Connor.
		Oh, people are so stupid, man.
		I had my cousins like, oh, I can't believe Cowboy would do that.
		I'm like, do what?
		He got fucking cracked, man.
		Yeah, do what?
		People are crazy.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, I was upset at Stephen A. Smith, and he made a video responding to me.
		Come on.
		Listen, Stephen A. Smith, I guess I should respond, right?
		You're a very entertaining guy.
		I like you a lot.
		And I appreciate the props you gave me in that video, but you're wrong.
		Yeah.
		Cowboy got fucked up with those shoulders in the clinch.
		He had Conor's arms tied up, and they're in tight spaces.
		Conor dips low and slams this bone of his shoulder into the nose.
		And he's, at the beginning of the round...
		Conor's a fucking super explosive guy.
		Super explosive.
		All muscles.
		Just fucking pulled tight at the beginning of the fight.
		And just bang!
		Bang!
		He got off good shots and Cowboy was confused.
		I think he was flustered.
		Flustered.
		I don't think that those shots maybe rocked him.
		They broke his nose.
		Broke his nose.
		That could rock you, I guess, in a sense.
		Well, he's got blood pouring out of his nose, so he's not breathing out of his nose now, and then all of a sudden he's like, fuck, my nose is already fucked up, and he hasn't even punched me yet.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, it was unusual.
		Like, I could see if someone has a peripheral understanding of the sport, and you see that happening, like, come on, man.
		Or even guys like Mike Bisping.
		Like, Mike Bisping was like, fucking shoulder strikes, come on, shoulder strikes.
		But...
		That said, Mike Bisping is, without a doubt, one of the toughest human beings that's ever walked the face of the planet.
		If he lost an ear, he'd be like, ah, you got another ear!
		He fights with one eye.
		He doesn't give a fuck.
		He fought a giant chunk of his career against the best fighters in the world, including winning the title with one eye.
		Michael Bisping is a fucking dyed-in-the-wool savage.
		So if he's like, ah, it's just shoulder strikes.
		That said...
		The shoulder strikes didn't end the fight.
		The shoulder strikes definitely got him off on the wrong foot.
		Then, Cowboy threw a kick to Conor's arms, and then Conor countered with a head kick.
		Rocked Cowboy back.
		Rocked him.
		You see his legs go, and then Conor hits him with pistons.
		He hits so hard.
		I don't get how people could say it was a work.
		He broke his fucking orbital bone.
		Yeah.
		But Stephen A. Smith said that he felt like...
		Cowboy quit.
		He did not quit.
		He got smashed.
		You can't say someone quit after getting their nose broke and rocked and a broken orbital.
		You can't say he quit.
		It's also who you're talking about.
		You're talking about a guy who has the most fights in the UFC, the most finishes in the UFC, the most head kick knockouts in the UFC, the most bonuses in the UFC. Cowboy is a fucking legend.
		He is as tough as they come.
		He's lost before.
		Every human can lose.
		Especially you're fighting guys like Darren Till and Jorge Masvidal and these fucking animals that he's fighting.
		He's fighting the cream of the crop or Conor.
		And Conor literally broke his face.
		He broke his nose and he broke his orbital bone.
		So Stephen A. Smith responded and then Conor responded.
		Yeah, I've seen that.
		Conor told him to apologize.
		And Conor's right.
		Yeah, he is right.
		I mean...
		Give Conor the credit a little bit.
		I think the problem is Stephen A. Smith, who's a very entertaining guy and is very knowledgeable about other sports, this is not his wheelhouse.
		And also that style of dismissing athletes and putting people down.
		That's...
		That's how he kind of made his name.
		That's how he made his name.
		And it's fun to listen to.
		He's a fun guy to listen to.
		He talks great shit.
		I wonder, I mean, I'm sure basketball players are kind of saying the same stuff we're saying when he's criticizing basketball players, though.
		Or football players, you know what I mean?
		Oh, I'm sure.
		I'm sure.
		I mean, I don't know too much about that.
		Jamie, you're a sports fan, right?
		Do they criticize him, too?
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's respected, for sure.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the show he's on, every day he's got to wake up and give his take, and they've got to talk about it for an hour or two.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of the take, the controversy is good.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Shock value.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		And he had a radio show for three hours he did after that, so he talks all day long.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and he's entertaining.
		That's what people like to hear.
		They like to hear someone passionate.
		You ever hear him and Teddy Atlas argue after the Conor McGregor-Floyd Mayweather fight?
		Yeah.
unidentified		Because Teddy Atlas is like, Conor McGregor made the best chef in the world be a fucking fast food cook.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's basically how they're back and forth.
		The two of them yelling and arguing.
		It's very entertaining.
		That's his position, all right?
		I just think that this sport demands more appreciation, more respect, and it demands a higher level of reverence to the athletes who literally put their lives on the line.
		It's different.
		I don't think you have to say the guy quit to describe what happened.
		No, you could just talk about what Conor did that was so special.
		Look, the guy finds tricky ways to do things in those shoulder strikes.
		Look, we've seen guys do shoulder shrugs before, but we never saw anybody do it successfully.
		But you've got to think about the UFC is...
		A lot of what happens in the UFC is someone, out of all these fights, finally does something, and then other people start doing that thing.
		Like, you remember when no one was throwing front kicks to the face?
		No one.
		For all those fucking years.
		Yep.
		All of a sudden, Anderson knocks out Vitor, who's like one of the elite of the elite strikers, knocks him out with a front kick to the face, and you're like, what the fuck?
		And then you see everyone trying it.
		Nobody ever did it.
		I don't remember anybody ever, even in kickboxing, people very rarely threw a front kick to the face.
		It just wasn't, you know, they would teep to the face.
		Right, to the body, yeah.
		But even teeps to the face, it was more like...
		The range thing.
		Yeah, all you would, like, push in his face.
		Right.
		Like, you very rarely, unless someone caught it perfect, saw a guy get knocked out with, like, a snap front kick with the ball of the foot.
		It's almost like an uppercut the way it comes off from underneath.
		Dude, it's a fucking devastating technique when done correctly.
		I mean, Justin Buchholz got a KO with it outside of the UFC that's devastating.
		Lyoto Machida did that jumping front kick to Randy Couture.
		You knock out Randy Couture with a fucking front kick to the face.
		That's a legit technique.
		But then you see everybody doing that, like low calf kicks, right?
		First guy I ever saw do it was Benson.
		Benson Henderson really got into those low calf kicks.
		You did it to me.
		Yeah, right.
		Those are rough, man.
		But now everybody throws those kicks.
		You've got to think of how many years went by before people were not throwing low calf kicks.
		I guarantee you, now, when people get tied up in the clinch, and someone's holding someone with double overhooks or whatever, I don't remember how Connor had a hold of, or Cowboy had a hold of Connor.
		Over-under, right?
		Over-under, I think, yeah.
		When someone's tied up in the clinch and you can't strike, you're gonna see guys do that.
		Yeah, yeah, 100%.
		Because this is a bone, man.
		It's a fucking bone right there.
unidentified		That is hard.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And if anything, it's just something to distract them, you know, to move to something else.
		But this, where your shoulder, the top of your shoulder, that's fucking hard.
		Yeah, yeah.
		You know, it's not the ideal thing to strike with, but when there's nothing else there, there's something there.
		Yeah.
		I could see how Stephen Smith would not think that that was effective.
		I could see.
		But for me, it was clearly effective.
		There were hard shots.
		There's a lot of power behind it.
		There's a lot of explosion.
		Conor dipping his level and coming up and slamming into it.
		It was kind of crazy.
		But even if you take that away, the head kick and the punches to finish, I mean, come on.
		He got beat down.
		He got beat down and smashed by a guy who rises to the occasion.
		Look, Cowboy's had problems in the past with these really big fights, and he looked nervous as fuck, and he talks about it openly.
		There was a video that they played, which I don't think they should have played, before the fight, because he had to hear that.
		So they're playing a video of him describing how nervous he gets before fights, and how he's...
		Throws off.
		And also about how he's kind of faking it.
		He's pretending like he's fine, but he's not inside.
		I'm freaking the fuck out.
		They played that before he fought.
		I'm like, why are you doing that?
		I was thinking about it even more.
unidentified		Yes!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was thinking.
		I was saying, fuck, he does not need to hear this.
		That's why I'm in the locker room.
		When I'm in the locker room and the TV's on, I'm always like, turn that volume down.
		I don't want to hear anybody talking about my fight.
		Turn that shit down.
		Good for you.
		Good for you.
		I mean, I'm cognizant of that when I see a guy in the locker room and I'm talking.
		I try to pump him up.
		I want him to feel good.
		Yeah, show up.
		Yeah.
		Well, when you come out, man, in that Biggie song, Biggie, there's something about...
		Some fighters and songs.
		There's a connection to those guys.
		Every time I hear that song, I think about you.
		Yeah, man.
		I started in 2009 when I fought Shirk.
		That was the first time I ran out to it.
		I was like, man, the most shady Frankie baby.
		I was like, this is it.
		Dude, Biggie's probably my...
		Well, if he's not my all-time, he's like top three.
		Nas is probably my all-time, but he's right up there.
		Yeah, I think Biggie might be my guy, too.
		Seventh grade, I got that Ready to Die cassette tape and listened to this shit.
		I think I listened it until I couldn't listen to it no more.
		Yeah.
		Well, I was on news radio while I was doing a sitcom, and I remember I listened to that fucking hypnotized song like ten times in a row.
		I was like, God damn, that's a good song.
		His flow was so entertaining.
unidentified		He was.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He could tell a story better than anybody.
		Oh, man.
		He was a special dude.
		He was a special dude.
		The feud between him and Tupac, the fact that both of those guys got murdered.
		Yeah, that's crazy, right?
		What the fuck, man?
		Yeah.
		Like, oh, God.
		How good would they have been as they got older, too?
		I know.
		And Biggie, Apocalypse, he had...
		Thousands of CDs, at least, or mixtapes, you know, come out after his death, but then he only had two albums, really, you know, so he didn't have much material.
		Isn't that crazy that Pac put so much shit down?
		Yeah.
		Pac, man, he was like an activist, too, you know, so everything was kind of politically charged and everything.
		Well, he was unbelievably prolific.
		Yeah.
		Like, he wrote so much.
		After he was dead, they released like five albums.
		Six albums.
		It was crazy.
		Of all new stuff.
		Yeah, where is all this shit from?
		Remember then they did the hologram?
unidentified		Because he's in Cuba.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's in Cuba recording, that's why.
		Remember they had the hologram?
		Was it Coachella?
		That was so weird.
unidentified		A little creepy, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was so creepy.
		I was like, what is the future going to be like?
		We're going to see Janis Joplin up there singing.
		Yeah, you're right.
		Legitimately, they're going to be able to do that in the future.
unidentified		That's true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're probably going to be able to write new Janis Joplin songs and have her singing in a hologram.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you won't even be able to tell it's not really her.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I just listened to the radio yesterday.
		Chester Bennington from Lincoln Park, his first band he was in when he was like 18, they had recordings of him that they just put new music to and re-released the music.
		I think it's called Gray Days or No Gray or something like that.
		I didn't listen to it myself, but I heard it's not bad.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a bummer.
		He was a bummer.
		I know.
		That was a bummer.
		A lot of these guys, I don't know, a lot of artists seem like they're conflicted in some ways.
		It's one of the reasons why they're so good.
		When Chester would sing, it was like he was wailing, screaming.
		There was something about the angst and the anger and the energy and the emotions in his voice.
		That was why he was so good.
		Sometimes, like Linkin Park, he's just listening because they jam.
		Then you start listening to some of the words, like, man, this guy was...
		He's been feeling it for a while.
		Yeah, he was going through some shit for sure.
		It's so hard to believe when someone like Chris Carnell or someone like him takes their own life.
		They were good friends, right?
		I believe so, yeah.
unidentified		I think one of them, didn't he kill himself on his birthday or something like that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		Something sad like that.
		But again, two guys with those insane voices.
		I mean, Soundgarden?
		God damn, he was good.
		Definitely, yeah.
unidentified		Cool!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Damn.
		But it's like, it's almost like those guys that have that insane, and women too, that have that insane emotion in their voice.
		Like, they're just so, they're so torn and conflicted.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, that's, I mean, pour it out.
		You could hear it in their voice, their hearts pouring out.
		I think that's what it is.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, it's, I don't know, man.
		It's a bummer.
		It's a bummer.
		But the Tupac, they don't do that anymore, right?
		That fucking hologram.
		The Tupac hologram was built like Marlon.
		Marlon Marais.
		Have you ever seen the Tupac hologram?
		A little bit, yeah.
		Yeah, he was way more jacked than Tupac ever was.
		Like, has Tupac been doing fucking CrossFit?
		He's been doing F45 for the last five years while he's in hiding?
		He's been getting after it.
		Yeah, there's a lot of guys that...
		Yeah, there it is.
		Like, look how jacked.
		He looks like Wiz Khalifa looks now.
		Yeah, Wiz Khalifa again after it.
		Wiz is jacked!
		There was a good video the other day of Wiz Khalifa hitting the bag.
		I'm like, God damn, Wiz Khalifa.
		Wiz Khalifa's got good technique.
		He does.
		He does Thai fights?
		Yeah, he's doing a lot of Muay Thai.
		But he's got crazy abs, man.
		The dude is fucking jacked.
		He is.
		He's got no fat on him.
		And he smokes weed all day.
		My guy.
unidentified		All day.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All day.
		Is weed legal in New Jersey now?
		How's it work?
		Medical is, yeah.
		You have to have like a real problem, right?
		No.
		You can't just have headaches?
		Can you have headaches?
		Anxiety you could have.
		Oh, anxiety.
		I get that.
		There's Weeds Cleaver.
		Yeah, he trains hard, man.
		Yeah, that's cool.
		It's always good when these guys do this stuff, brings light to our sport.
		Yeah, Snoop trains too.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, there's some videos of Snoop training and sparring online.
		It's awesome.
		I love it.
		I love it.
		I mean, it's just great for you, too, even if you don't ever plan on fighting.
		To me, I mean, you know, I'd rather hit pads and kick a bag than run on a fucking treadmill, man.
		Oh, for sure.
		It's so much more entertaining.
		If these people realize that, they would like it a lot more, too.
		Do you run at all?
		I do run.
		I like to run.
		But I don't run for my camps or anything.
		I just enjoy running.
		Well, you're known for your endurance, you know, and when you would train, how much of you, did you do any cardio-specific workouts or was most of your cardio done through fight training?
		I mean, my strength and conditioning stuff would be a little cardio-based, you know, just like circuit training and stuff.
		I actually started working with a new strength and conditioning guy.
		He's a young kid, man.
		He's 24, but super passionate, really, into, you know.
		How do you find someone like that?
		You know, I just...
		Actually, Todd Frazier, who's actually on my podcast, we just released the episode today.
		Champ of the Tramp?
		Champ of the Tramp.
		He's a professional pistol player from my town, and I asked him where he was doing his off-season training, and he hooked me up with this guy.
		This guy does RPR, Reflexive Performance Recovery or something?
		No.
		No, Reset Performance Recovery?
		What is that?
		He does these certain things that just reset your nervous system, I guess.
		Like, he'll bang on your back.
		Bangs on your back, bangs on your back, and then you do a test, and you're stronger in a weird way.
		Really?
		It's RPR. Is that real?
		Is there a voodoo?
		I'm not a voodoo guy.
		I'm not a voodoo guy.
		He has one where I chopped my inner thighs.
		I'll go up and down like four times, and then he'll do some more tests.
		He'll make me go like a sit-up position, and he'll try to push me down flat.
		Before I did the test, I pretty much couldn't stop.
		Then I did the test, he almost put his body on me, and I could hold him up.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if it's mental.
		But I always feel good.
		I'll come into training and I'll be like, you know, I feel a little shoddy.
		And he puts me through these tests.
		And some of them hurt.
		Like sometimes he goes up and down your sternum on your ribs.
		And like, it's supposed to make you feel uncomfortable.
		And you're supposed to relax.
		And it kind of wakes me up, gets me going.
unidentified		Hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And the idea is that it jumps your reflexes up?
		Yeah, I mean, again, I'm a dummy.
		Yeah, I don't know it either.
		I know for sure that deep tissue work does a lot, right?
		Deep tissue massage.
		The way he explained it too was like, I couldn't do it to myself.
		Like one of them where he kind of goes and he hits up my IT band on my left, on my inside and outside of my thigh.
		And it hurts to the point where I'm like, oh my, you're almost writhing in pain.
		You know, I'm trying to relax and I'm doing it.
		But you can't do it to yourself.
		It's like he says, you can't tickle yourself because you know the pressure you're giving yourself.
		But someone else could tick you.
		So someone else had to do this to you.
		But isn't tickling like you don't have control?
		Because I can do the same pressure that someone would tickle me, but it's...
		But you know the pressure you're giving yourself.
		That's what was explained to me.
		Okay, so you don't know what pressure...
		So you're like, hey, what are you doing?
		Yeah, you don't know the pressure they're giving to you.
		And I think that does something with your nervous system.
		What do you think tickling is from?
		Do you think it's from evolving to get away from bugs?
		Like you feel something on you, like...
		Doesn't that make sense?
		Yeah.
		Like spiders on you or some shit?
		Yeah.
		Yeah, I think everything has to go back to that stuff.
		It has to.
		Or why do you hold your breath when you're nervous?
		People say, you've got to breathe, breathe.
		Why do you hold your breath?
		Probably because you're in the middle of the woods and something's fucking hot and you're like, you don't make any noise.
		Maybe.
		Or maybe your body's just panicking because of so much pressure.
		So much adrenaline, so much freaking out.
		Your body doesn't know what you do.
		Your body tenses up.
		Yeah, that's the thing about fighting, right?
		Where guys, when they're swinging in big exchanges, they don't breathe.
		And they get tired.
		Right, yeah.
		Like, you know, I don't know.
		You have those coaches that are like, okay guys, breathe.
		I don't want my coach telling me to breathe in the corner.
		No?
		I'm like, I know how to breathe, bro.
		Tell me what I need to hear.
		Right.
		Well, does that drive you crazy when you hear corners that don't give good advice?
		Go out and finish them.
		Yeah.
unidentified		What does that mean?
unidentified		Oh, thanks.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Get up, man.
		Get up.
		No shit.
		Go out there and kick his ass.
		That's why I was lucky to have guys that paid attention to detail, like Mark and Ricardo, man.
		Those guys are top-notch.
		Technical.
		Yeah, technical.
		They're not giving you that...
		You know, sometimes you do.
		You need to...
		Like, sometimes some guys...
		I think Mark got some flack for the Marlon fight where he was in the corner.
		He was like, your mother raised you, blah, blah, blah, blah.
		You know, and someone's like, why is he talking about his mom?
		It's like, because he knew he didn't need technique.
		He needed some motivation at that point.
		Was Marlon too big?
		Did he lose too much weight to get down to 35?
		And was he depleted?
		Or was it Cejudo just steamrolled him?
		I just think the moment.
		I think Marlon hit him with some good shots.
		He hit him with some good shots.
		Head kick, the right hand.
		And I think the fact that Sudo just took it and kept coming forward, I think kind of just demoralized Marlon a little bit.
		In my eyes.
		In my eyes, Cejudo was not going to be able to take much more to the legs.
		Yeah, no way.
		For sure, in that first round, I'm like, this fight's not going the distance.
		Yeah.
		I thought Marlon was going to keep chopping at the legs, but Marlon let Cejudo close the distance.
		And once he let Cejudo close the distance and get a hold of him, started hitting him with knees, and I was like, oh, Jesus Christ.
		Yeah, yeah.
		And even like, I mean...
		Marlon was in that tie clinch too.
		I'm like, dude, Marlon knows how to deal with a tie clinch.
		And he just wasn't even reacting to it.
		He was kind of letting him hit him with the knees, I felt like.
		Almost.
		I felt like he was just depleted.
		It seemed like he didn't have the energy to fight the kind of fight that Cejudo was willing to fight.
		Especially Cejudo at 35, right?
		Cejudo at 25, he's draining himself a little bit.
		But Cejudo at 35 was much healthier.
		Yeah.
		And this fucking guy's just tough as shit, man.
		He has a winner's mind.
		Finds a way.
		He's got a winner's mind.
		Yeah.
		You know?
		And the videos that he makes are pretty ridiculous.
		Super ridiculous.
		Triple C. Come on.
		Bend the knee.
		I mean, I guess that's...
		You know, everyone's got to have a shtick now, you know?
		I guess they do because it keeps them out there.
		It's just...
		It's weird because this sport is part of that.
		It's part promotion, but it's also performance.
		Guys like Conor are the perfect blend.
		He's just him himself.
	But Conor's entertaining.
	It's funny.
	Some of these other guys, man, it's just so forced.
	It's rough.
	But look, like Colby Covington.
	Colby Covington, shit talked his way to a goddamn title shot.
	He really did.
	And then fought his ass off.
	But he's also very good.
	Very good.
	I mean, you can't not be good and talk yourself into it.
	But the UFC was willing to...
	They wanted to cut him before he fought in Brazil.
	Do you know that?
	Yeah, I heard the story.
	That was the last fight on his contract.
	He's going over there to fight Damian Maia, and he just talked mad shit.
	He said, I'm going to...
	Kept him on board.
	Kept him.
	He's like, yeah.
	That's what did it.
	I mean, that's literally what did it.
	And then that character just took off.
	If you go and look at the early versions of that character, he had nice suits.
	He had a real crisp suit like Connor would wear.
	But then later, he's got these terrible, cheap suits.
	It's like it's part of the fun of it.
	He's wearing bullshit suits and a MAGA hat.
	He's playing to a character.
	Fuck, man.
	He fucking figured it out.
	Well, how about Conor?
	He's kind of made a little 180-type flip on his personality.
	He's still funny, he's still mouthy and stuff, but he's not being...
	He seems like he's trying to clean his image up a little bit.
	You think with Cowboy, you think that's it?
	Maybe with Cowboy, Cowboy's kind of easy to get along with and whatnot.
	Or maybe it's just that he's been dealing with so much, you know...
	With the Khabib fight and all that stuff.
	Well, Khabib and hitting the old guy and the shit that he's dealing with over there.
	He's got that proper 12. He's got a total line a little bit.
	Yes, right?
	I mean, you've got to think proper 12 is an enormous amount of money for him.
	I mean, he's making shit tons of money.
	I was in Vegas.
	Those billboards were everywhere.
	On cars and shit.
	He was sponsoring the Bellator cage, too.
	Was he?
	Yeah.
	Good for him.
	Good for him.
	Yeah, I wonder.
	But I also think, I don't think he felt like he needs psychological warfare with Cowboy.
	I feel like he thought from the beginning that he had a giant advantage over Cowboy.
	You know, like, if you go back to an old press conference or talking back and shit to each other, he's like, you're stiff as a board.
	Right, right, yeah.
	Fucking break in half.
	Yeah.
	I think he just felt like this fight, I could just be a nice guy with this guy.
	Right.
	But with Khabib, I think he felt like he had to fuck with him.
	I felt like he felt that he had to get Khabib emotional the same way he got Aldo emotional.
	But that shit didn't work.
unidentified		Didn't work.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That motherfucker, he's a vault.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You look in his eyes, you just see nothing but doom.
unidentified		Yeah, no.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just those people over there.
		They call it the steppe, where they're from, right?
		Is that the steppe?
		Is that where it would be considered the steppe?
		Well, Mongolia is the steppe, right?
		Oh, okay.
		Isn't it?
		It's close to there, isn't it?
		I don't know.
		Is it?
		It's a hard part of the world, though.
		I know that.
		Did you see when he won?
		When they have a video of the streets?
		The streets of Dagestan.
		Everybody, lights on their cars, honking their horns, fucking screaming out the window.
		Yeah!
		Dude's shooting machine guns up here.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's a fucking terror, man.
		And I am so interested in this fight, coming up with him and Tony Ferguson.
		I am so interested in that fight.
		That's a crazy fight.
		Ooh, that fight is everything to me.
		That fight, I don't know how Dana White is doing these press conferences talking about matching up Conor and Khabib.
		I'm like, hey, hey, what about the boogeyman?
		Because the boogeyman is right now a big bear, fucking doing kicks on trees and shit, and wing-chunk-dubbing rocks and stuff.
		Doesn't he build his own gym, too?
		Yes, he builds his own gym.
		Eddie Bravo, you talk to him about it, because he does his camps, he helps him in his jiu-jitsu.
		He talks him through it.
		Eddie Bravo will talk you through it, rather.
		He goes up there, he'll get a house up there, like rent a house, or he has a place, I don't know which one it is, but then he builds everything.
		He builds the racks for the bags, he builds the fucking, he mats the rooms, he does everything himself.
		He is a unique human being.
		He is, yeah.
		And you want to talk about cardio.
		That guy is the freak of all freaks.
		Because he never even seems a little tired.
unidentified		Not at all.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And keeps coming forward.
		Keeps coming forward.
		Never seems even a little tired.
		And everyone he fights looks like they got mauled by a leopard.
		Everyone's face is hanging off.
		Look at this shit that he does.
		Headstands and stuff.
		He's into breakdancing, right?
		Yeah.
		But he's always doing this kind of shit, like weird kind of exercise.
		Look at this.
		Just standing only on his head.
		That's a good way to blow your discs out.
		Yeah, yeah.
		Want stenosis?
		There you go.
		That's how you get stenosis.
		Oh, man.
		Look at it.
		Look at this shit he does.
		But that's every kind of training.
		No one's telling him what to do either.
		No, he does on his own.
		Guys who've gone to camp with him say, it's like, okay, today we're going to run hills.
		He just decides what we're going to do.
		He's a different dude.
		Eddie told me that his cardio is fucking ridiculous.
		They'll be doing these hill sprints, and he'll do these hill sprints with his other training partners, and he's lapping them.
		He runs all the way up and all the way down, and then passes them as they're still up the first time.
		He's a freak.
		Yeah, that's an interesting fight.
		It's a fucking great fight!
		That's why I don't understand why Dana is not considering the fact that Tony Ferguson would win that fight.
		You think he's implying that Khabib's already got this one?
		They're talking about Khabib versus Conor.
		Because look, that's the money.
		From what I hear, Khabib won't fight him.
		He said he'd fight him for $100 million.
		That's what he said?
		Then he's going to fight him.
		I think his dad said that.
		His dad said that he'll fight Conor for the same amount of money that Conor made fighting Floyd.
		Wow.
		But I don't know if you could get $100 million in the UFC. Do you think that fight Conor-Khabib will be big?
		A big fight?
		The problem is...
		Because Dana's saying it's going to be as big as Khabib or Conor Floyd.
		I don't know.
		That was a pretty big fight.
		Yeah.
		Floyd brings a different thing to the table, right?
		Floyd brings all the hardcore boxing fans.
		And he's so polarizing.
		Yeah.
		And he's the best boxer of all time.
		I mean, you stop and think about the amount of times that guy's been hit over a period of 50 fights.
		It's insane.
		His defensive skills and his ability to size up an opponent and figure out what the guy's doing and then start to break him down systematically.
		Best there is.
		He's the best.
		He's the best.
		He's, like, there's been guys that have been incredible, and they're, like, up in his level, you know, like, all-time great fighters, but in terms of not getting hit, I don't think anybody's been as good as Floyd.
		Yeah, no, I agree.
		So, to have Conor...
	Go in there and fight him, a guy who's never had a professional boxing match, but is fucking up everybody in MMA, and all these people think he has a chance, and there's all this hype behind it, all this craziness, and the fact that it was this sort of crossover fight, it had a lot of...
	First time ever, really?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, James Toney, James Toney, Randy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was ridiculous, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't think James Toney even trained MMA for that fight.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was on that car.
		That's my full BJ second time.
		Oh, really?
		Oh, that's right.
		That's right.
		Yeah, as soon as Randy ankle-picked him, I was like, oh, this is over.
		You want that fucking animal on top of you?
		Randy Couture in his prime.
unidentified		Ooh!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Randy Couture.
		Man, I looked up to Randy big time coming up.
		What a great guy he is.
unidentified		He is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I still run into him nowadays.
		He's a super solid guy.
		He was so calm when he got into the cage.
		It was so crazy.
		I remember he was one of the first guys ever.
		He's getting ready to fight.
		They're ready to announce him.
		He looks over at me and just winks and gives me a big smile.
		I'm like, this guy all relaxed and shit, just saying hi to people.
		He loved it.
		Loved competing.
		Loved being in there, man.
		And didn't even start fighting until he was in his mid-30s.
		Yeah.
		And he was just wrestling.
		Maybe that's why he was able to fight so long, too.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, maybe.
		Yeah, maybe.
		Yeah, it's...
		It's kind of crazy when you think about his career, too.
		Light heavyweight champ, heavyweight champ.
		Came back and won it and beat Sylvia.
		That was crazy.
		When he dropped Sylvia with that right hand, I was like, what the fuck?
		I was worried about him in that fight.
		I was like, you think about guys like Chuck Liddell knocking him out.
		What is Tim Sylvia going to do?
		He's a big dude, man.
		He's enormous.
		And Tim Sylvia, back when there was no testing, when Tim Sylvia fought Rico Rodriguez, people forget.
		Tim Sylvia was not like this doughy guy back then.
		Do you remember that fight when he fought Rico?
		Yeah.
		That's scary, Tim Sylvia.
		He had a back like a fucking brick wall.
		He was huge, and he had to cut weight to make 265. I remember he had to come back to the scale.
		He missed it the first time.
		That was back in the old days.
		Yeah.
		A funny story, Rico.
		When I was wrestling in my junior, senior year of high school, so it was like 98, 99, our manager on the team said her brother fought in UFC. I'm like, this is when, you know, UFC wasn't as popular.
		I'm like, get out of here.
		You probably never fought in UFC. And it was Rico Rodriguez.
unidentified		It was her stepbrother.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I ran into him one day.
		He's like, I used to date my sister back in the day.
		I'm like, a little bit.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Rico Rodriguez was a bad motherfucker.
unidentified		Hell yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was one of the first real high-level jiu-jitsu guys in the heavyweight division.
		He's still around Jersey.
		He's still around Jersey a little bit.
		What's he doing these days?
		He was coaching, you know, Jamal Patterson.
		He's one of the hands of those black belts.
		He was coaching at his place, yeah.
		Oh, no shit.
		Coaching wrestling?
unidentified		Jiu-jitsu, I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, Rico was a beast, man.
		And, you know, that guy fought a giant chunk of his career with a blown-out ACL. Oh, really?
		He had no ACL. He just, like, rehabbed his knees, or rehabbed his legs, like, built up his muscles.
		Just got him strong and just dealt with it.
		Yeah, like, I think they say your hamstring is, like, a big part of it, like, if you strengthen your hamstring up, but most people can't do it.
		Like, most people, when the ACL's blown out, like, they can't compete.
		Right, yeah.
		But Rico could.
		That's wild.
		Supposedly, Dos Anjos has a blown out ACL. Oh, does he?
		Yeah, supposedly.
		He's been fighting with it?
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		That's what I heard.
		I need to talk to him.
		Yeah.
		Find out if that's a fact.
		My knee's always been...
		Always been good.
		Thank God.
		Never had knee problems.
		None?
		I mean, I've had LCL tears, MCL tears, but never surgery or anything.
		No meniscus surgery?
		Nothing?
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		That's rare.
		Everybody's knees are fucked up after a while.
		Especially a wrestler.
		I never wore knee pads in my life either.
		Really?
		I wonder if that's why.
		No.
		No, it can't be.
		But, you know, Bisping just got his knee completely replaced.
		That was scary.
		I was like, God damn, he's only like 41. Yeah, man.
		And don't they only last 10 years?
		Yep.
		I think so.
		I would have tried the stem cells first, I think.
		Or is it maybe just past the point of that?
		I don't know.
		I mean, they wanted to do that to my mom.
		They wanted to get my mom a knee replacement, but I sent her down to Panama.
		And she's fine now.
		Yeah?
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dude, crazy.
		It took eight months.
		I was really worried that it wasn't working because I talked to her afterwards and I talked to her up to like six months.
		She wasn't feeling anything different.
		And then she started to feel better.
		And then like eight months later, the pain went away.
		It was gone.
		That's amazing.
		Yeah.
		And then I sent her back again.
		And then the second round, she's doing...
		But here's what's weird.
		When I saw her for Christmas, she looked younger.
		Really?
		Yeah, I was like, you look great.
		Did they just inject the stem cells in the knee?
		They put them in both knees and they also did IV. And they do it for three days.
		So you just get barraged down there.
		They just fill you up.
		And then you walk out of there like...
		I wonder if that stuff helps Lyme disease.
		I bet it would, yeah.
		They say it has to go through the brain barrier or something, right?
		I don't know.
		The blood-brain barrier?
		Yeah.
		Well, I mean, they inject these stem cells intravenously.
		You'd have to talk to Dr. Reardon.
		He'd probably be able to explain it.
		But I mean, I think anything that boosts your immune system and helps your overall body, and the idea of doing it intravenously is that your body knows where to utilize it.
		Your body knows areas that are troubled.
		It's weird that your body has some strange innate intelligence that knows where the injuries are.
		Like, how is that working?
		It knows what's wrong with your brain.
		Like, how's that working?
		Yeah, that's wild.
		Like, yeah, what is it doing?
		It attracts, like I said, it attracts it, right?
		It attracts to where it needs to be.
		Yeah.
		I'm really excited about the future of that shit because I think, you know, I talked to Dr. Jeff Davidson from the UFC and he just got back from, you know Dr. Jeff.
		Yeah, yeah.
		He's an awesome guy.
		He's great.
		He's the one who got me into stem cells in the first place.
		Yeah, he's the one who hooked me up with the one on my shoulder.
		Me too.
		Did you do Dr. Roddy McGee?
		No, I actually did do Roddy McGee way back.
		The first time I had stem cells was in my groin.
		Hey!
		Did you have a torn muscle?
		I had a sports hernia.
		Oh, wow.
		I had the same surgery Usman had.
		Oh, really?
		Yeah.
		Damn.
		We went to the same guy too.
		This guy, Dr. Myers.
		He actually invented the surgery.
		If you call it a sports hernia, he gets mad at you.
		Because it's not a sports hernia.
		It's a core muscle injury.
	Well, what is it?
	How does it work?
	I think they cut the tendons in my thighs and also in my abs.
	Cut them...
	Completely off and then resold them together.
unidentified		Whoa!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was painful.
		For one week, super painful.
		Maybe two weeks, super painful.
		But literally six weeks later, I was kicking a heavy bang.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was amazing.
unidentified		You do physical therapy the day you get out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The next day, I'm at physical therapy.
unidentified		Wow.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And it was bad.
		I probably was dealing with it for like two years.
		It would come and go.
		I would get flamed up where I couldn't even cough down there.
		I remember the one time I went to finally get checked out and get the MRI. I went to the doctor by myself, drove up to the city and came home.
		I didn't eat anything because I had to park my car and walk to the damn doctor and was like, you know, a couple blocks in the city.
		It took me forever to walk anywhere, so I didn't even stop and eat.
		I come home, I park my car, and I call my wife.
		I'm like, you've got to help me get out of the car.
		I can't get out of the car.
		I get out of the car, I'm walking, and I literally passed out while I was walking.
		She caught me.
		I had to crawl into my house.
		Holy shit!
		I was like, damn.
		I got that surgery and it was probably the best surgery I've had.
		That's crazy that it was that bad.
		So painful.
		That's probably because I didn't eat.
		That's why I passed out and all that stuff too.
		Yeah, that was rough.
		When I hear about a guy like you passing out, I'm like, okay.
		This is a motherfucker that stays awake.
		I've never passed out in my life.
unidentified		I've never passed out in my life.
unidentified		That was the first time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So they detached the tendons or the ligaments?
		Is it tendons?
		It must be tendons.
		It must be tendons.
		They cut the ones here up my thigh.
		It connects on three points by your leg.
		So what was wrong?
		It was tearing.
		It was pulling.
		Each side was pulling the other side.
		So I was getting tears everywhere.
		And so when they do that, they cinch it down again?
		How's it better six weeks later?
		The next day, I go there and I start doing the foot exercises.
		They put the bands on.
		I'm doing all that stuff.
		I guess it just strengthens up.
		Wow.
		But it's crazy that six weeks later, that's not a lot of healing.
		Yeah, six weeks later.
		And he told you you'd be good to go six weeks later?
		Yeah.
		So how quickly after that could you have fought?
		I'm trying to think.
		I fought that in May.
		I got surgery in January.
		I fought that May.
		The first time Usman came in here, he had a bag on his waist that was draining pus.
		Yeah, yeah.
		He had both sides.
		I only had one side, I think.
		Oh.
		Yeah, I was like, what the fuck is that?
		He took him a long time to recover after the...
		Dude, my downstairs was all jacked up.
		My balls were so fucking big.
		Really?
		Oh my god, huge.
		They'd swell up?
unidentified		Huge.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you take pictures?
		Of course.
		Yeah, you'd have to, right?
		Like, when are your balls ever going to look like that again?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		There's a hockey player, Sidney Crosby, remember I told you?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		He recently got this surgery, and Odell Beckham, a popular NFL receiver, just got this last week by a doctor in Philadelphia.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Dr. Myers.
		That's the guy I went to.
		Yeah, he does everybody.
		Imagine one dude specializing in one.
		The guy's not even like a surgeon, I think.
		It's kind of crazy.
		What?
		He's not a surgeon for orthopedics.
		He's not an orthopedic doctor.
		He created this surgery, though.
		That must be a surgeon.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Athletic Pobalgia?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Does that sound right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Say it again.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Athletic Pobalgia?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I don't know the word.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Jesus Christ.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's it.
		Pobalgia.
		Why do you say it?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how to...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When they invent a name, why invent that name?
unidentified		Right, right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why Pobalgia?
		Pobalgia.
		What does it mean?
		What does pubalgia mean?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Groin disruption.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ah!
		Also known as groin disruption.
		Sportsman's hernia.
		But he told me it's not a sports hernia.
		Persistent groin pain during exercise when there's no evidence of clinically detectable hernia.
		Athletic pubalgia is not a true hernia, but it's considered an overuse injury in which the external oblique muscles and surrounding tendons and or traverse abdominis or internal oblique muscles are worn down or partially torn.
		So this is – okay.
		Conservative treatment consists of rest medications or physical therapy.
		If conservative treatment fails, surgical treatment may be suggested as an alternative.
		The procedure may be performed using a laparoscopic or open anterior approach.
		Polypropylene or polyester mesh is suggested to correct the identified abnormality.
		However, there's no data from randomized studies to confirm effectiveness of this surgery.
		Well, why don't you talk to Frankie motherfucking Edgar, Wikipedia, or whoever that is that you're getting that thing off of.
		It's funny that some doctors just figure something out.
		Yeah, he's killing it too.
		I don't know, a bunch of athletes, but there's a bunch of famous athletes that went through that guy.
		It's crazy that I didn't know that that was a persistent injury and then all these guys have it.
		I've never even heard of that before.
		Yeah, I didn't know what it was until it happened.
		Again, that's probably one of those things of being too tough for your own good, right?
		Yeah, for sure.
		I just kept pushing through.
		Before I thought that, I got an epidural in there.
		That was crazy.
		Literally, they go through, probably by my pubes, and they go that way.
		Oh, Jesus Christ.
		The needle was like six inches long.
unidentified		Ah!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm in the doctor's office.
		My junk's practically out, you know?
		And he's putting this thing in.
		I'm like, alright.
		And also, he puts the medicine in.
		When he put the medicine in, that's when it flared up.
		I'm screaming, fuck, take it out, take it out.
		He's like, hang on, hang on.
		That only lasted for like a couple months, and then it came back.
		Oh, so epidural just kind of numbs it, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that what it does?
		I've had several in my back.
		Have you?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I had back surgery when I was 18, actually.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You did?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What kind?
		Distectomy.
		Oh, so a little bit of a meniscus or a little bit of the disc?
		A bulge disc, yeah.
		Yeah, they cut it out.
		But it worked pretty good.
		It does work good, but there's ways around that for certain injuries.
		For 18, I probably shouldn't have.
		I was an 18-year-old.
		No way I should have got that.
		A lot of people did.
		I had it in my neck, and they were talking about me doing that, but virginikine cured it.
		Yeah.
		They were talking about doing it.
		Like, I went to one doctor and he was like, you're probably going to have to get the disc trimmed.
		That was eight years ago.
		And you're good to go.
		Yeah, what is it?
		Nah, maybe.
		Yeah, yeah.
		At least, at least, let's say at least five years ago, six years ago.
		I have no pain in my neck now.
		You know another thing though?
		The iron neck.
		I fucking love that thing.
		Yeah, that's what I've been seeing.
		I see people using that.
		I got it right on here.
		You want to try it?
		Yeah, definitely try it.
		Dude, it's the shit.
		It's the shit.
		You put that thing, it is the single best thing I've ever used for developing neck muscles.
		And for jiu-jitsu and wrestling, it's fantastic too because it's attached to a bungee cord, right?
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So the bungee cord is a 50 pound cord and you put this halo on and then you pump it up like a Reebok pump.
		You know, remember those old pumps?
		You pump it up and it gets tight to your head and then you can control the amount of resistance when you turn, right?
		Because it's actually got resistance when you turn.
		So you pull back, so your neck is holding this 50 pound cord back this way and then you're doing this.
		I don't know.
		I've seen someone had that attached to, like, you know, gym equipment.
		Yes.
		And then they're shadowboxing.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the idea is it's like your neck is constantly resisting this.
		So, like, when dudes are trying to snap you down or pull your neck down or you're trying to posture out of triangles and shit.
		Right.
		Like, when do you ever work out your neck in that way?
		Yeah.
		And most people, when they work out their neck, they put one of them harnesses on, which is...
		You know, it does something.
		But a lot of doctors will tell you that that's not a normal action for your neck to be lifting weights with.
		And you could do some damage to your...
		I don't know if they're right or right.
		I don't know.
		But I know the iron neck, you don't have to do any of that shit.
		So it's basically just the muscles in your neck.
		And you're not making your neck hold weight at a weird angle.
		Like this way or that way.
		It's just straight.
		Your neck is always straight and it's turning.
		It's just the muscles are getting exercised and everything gets stronger.
		I know Cory's into it.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Cory Anderson, he loves that thing.
		I was just wondering if it's good if you're, you know, if your neck is bad.
		Well, according to them, they've had people that had neck injuries, they rehabilitated it with that because it strengthens all the areas.
		So, like, say if this is just me talking.
		But if you have an area where you have an injury and it keeps getting hurt, if you strengthen all that area around that, it's not going to be as mobile.
		You're going to have more control and it's probably going to protect it more.
		That just makes sense to me.
		But I'm a big fan of that product.
		That was a football player that figured that out.
		What was the gentleman's name?
		The guy who came and he gave me a bunch of demonstrations and shit.
		But it's great for football players as well.
		And his idea was that it was also going to help prolong people's careers because it'll prevent more concussions because you're not going to get your head snapped as easy.
		You're going to be able to withstand much more impact.
		It's so interesting that all these people that are involved in athletic equipment, they figure these things out.
		How do we strengthen the core better?
		How do we strengthen the neck better?
		How do we do this?
		How do we do that?
		Glad there's people smarter than me out there.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't be on top of everything.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Mike Jolly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Say his last name again?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Jolly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Mike Jolly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That didn't sound like you said that the first time.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, my voice swallowed it, I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		Yeah.
		Anyway, Mike explained the whole thing.
		It's a very impressive piece of equipment.
		I love it.
		Yeah.
		I mean, all that stuff.
		You had the reverse hyper, too.
		I got that.
unidentified		Oh, love that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's great, yeah.
		That thing's the shit.
		Yeah.
		I want to get a belt squat.
		Have you ever heard of a belt squat?
		We don't have one, but we saw that when we were there.
		They offered it to us, the Westside barbell.
		Come down and put it in here.
		We'll probably get it done.
		You put a lot of load on your body without having to load your back.
		Yeah, without fucking your back up.
		Yeah, and guys do shadowboxing and shit with that on, too.
		Yeah, I've seen that.
		That's probably really good for your legs.
		I think that would really increase your ability to punch and to push off of stuff.
		Do you ever use the...
		It's like a wheel.
		I forgot what it was.
		It used like centrifugal force.
		You pull up on it, it makes it...
		Ah, shit.
		A wheel.
		It's like a wheel, and it wraps around.
		So you can do lifts, and the quicker you go up, the faster it pulls you down.
		Hmm.
		I feel like they had that too.
		Didn't they have that at Westside Barbell?
		He's got all kinds of crazy shit down there.
		That guy, Louie Simmons, he's a mad genius psychopath.
		Yeah, yeah.
		I've watched some of his stuff.
		He seems pretty nuts.
		He's nuts.
		And having him show me all of his stuff, we did a podcast with him.
unidentified		Right, right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I remember.
		I listened to it, yeah.
		It was pretty cool.
		You were here at his place.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Sitting across from him at his desk.
		He told me that he got his shoulder replaced, and then the day he got back to the gym, they made him max out bench press.
		I was like, what the fuck, man?
		They told me to do it.
		I had to do it.
		I think he's crazy.
		He's talking.
		Steroids ain't bad for you.
		I've been on steroids since the 60s.
		Holy shit.
		Yeah, they never get off.
		That's the thing.
		Yeah, you can't, right?
		You can't, yeah.
		No.
		But, I mean, everything's on him.
		Who was telling us this?
		Was it Rob Kearney was telling us this?
		That he had his bicep replaced, his bicep tendon, because his bicep tendon blew out, and so he had his arm in a sling, and he lasted like a week, and he got tired of it and just straightened his arm out and popped it off so he could lift again.
unidentified		What?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So both of his biceps are...
		Oh, there's me.
		Oh, there's the bell squat, yeah.
		My stupid fucking paperboy hat.
		That's a cool machine, man.
		Yeah.
		Very cool.
		And there's Louie.
		Yeah, he's got, I mean, everything.
		What is that thing?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Different, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What does that thing do?
unidentified		I don't remember.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It's more for football players, I guess, but he was showing it.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It's a belt squat, I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, it's like a thing you hit.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I think you have to have the thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the belt on?
		Yeah.
		Oh, okay.
		So you put the belt squat on and then you hit that thing.
		Right.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, those guys, man, that Westside barbell, a bunch of fucking animals down there.
		Yeah, he's like, the train's like the world's strongest people, right?
		Yeah.
		Pretty much.
		Yeah, there was a bunch of freaks like that dude who was in there working out while we were there.
		Super strong human beings.
		Yeah, again, I'm happy there's people out there that are smart who can figure those things out.
		Like, Louie Simmons invented that reverse hyper because they told him that he needed to get his disc fused.
		Right, yeah.
		And he's like, oh, do I really?
		Hold my beer.
		Yeah, he figured out, like, the best way to decompress your lower back and to strengthen that area.
		That machine is great.
		Sometimes I feel like I wait until my back hurts to use it.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Me too.
		Me too.
		I try to do it twice a week.
		I try to get in here twice a week and just do a few sets on that.
		Yeah, I got to make it a little more consistent with that.
		Yeah, because it strengthens your lower back in a real weird way that's hard to reach any other way.
		It is.
		And I like how it gives you the traction, too.
		Yes.
		The, like...
		Yeah, it gives you traction, but it gives you, like, what do they call it?
		Active traction.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So it's, like, decompressing.
		Active decompression.
		Yeah, it's awesome, man.
		I love it.
		I love those teeter things, too.
		Hang by your ankles.
		Like, anything to give your back...
		Inversion tape.
		Yeah, one of them, too.
		I got the inverted table, which is great where you hang by your ankles, but then I got another one.
		What's the other one called?
		The Dex?
		The Dex, that's my favorite, where you hang by your waist.
		It's just from your waist.
		I feel like when you hang by your ankles, it's great, but it's like the weight is going from your ankles and your knees and your hips.
		By the time you get to your back, how much compression you're getting.
		It definitely does something, but I think the Dex really targets the lower back.
		Amazing.
		I see the people that have the ones that lay down, and then they attach that on and it pulls them apart.
		Yeah, I haven't done that one.
		That's the Dex.
		The Dex decompression one.
		I fucking love that thing.
		So you grab ahold of those handles, and then you let go, and then you just drop down, and it's all the weight is decompressing in your lower back.
		And then you could do the...
		Yeah, you could do back extensions on it.
		Yeah, I think that's what they're called.
		Yeah, you could do those on it too.
		I mean, you could definitely get a workout on it if you wanted to, but for me, I use that after I'm done working out.
		I feel like if I'm real consistent with that, with that and the inversion deck and the reverse hyper, I keep my back healthy.
		Yeah, I go to a therapist, get stretched out like once or twice a week, and I do ART, active release therapy.
		Oh yeah, that's great.
		Now, when you, like, when you see, like, there's different schools of thought when it comes to strength and conditioning.
		And the more radical school of thought was the Marv Berinovich sort of school of thought, which you see Nick Curzon does with, who's doing with Rafael dos Anjos and a lot of guys, where you concentrate almost entirely on strength and conditioning.
		And the idea is, like, you already know how to fight.
		Like, you know how to fight, and the real thing that fucks with guys when they're fighting is their conditioning.
		And so they're putting these guys through these radical plyometric and explosive exercises, and then just, like, push, and that comes first.
		That is more important than anything.
		And that's when BJ was at his best.
		If you go back to, like, BJ when he fought Sean Shirk, BJ when he fought Diego Sanchez, he was training with Marv.
		Yeah, I think I'm on the opposite side of that.
		I mean, condition's never been an issue for me.
		Maybe that's why I have this take.
		I feel like I want to feel good on sparring days.
		Those are the most important days I need to feel good.
		So I feel like sometimes you wear yourself out of strength and condition and you come to spar the next day, you're not going to have a good performance that day.
		Yeah, I could see both ways of thinking about it.
		I could see both.
		I think there are probably some guys that maybe...
		That are afraid to get themselves tired that you gotta make them get...
		They're not gonna push themselves that much when they're sparring if they're scared to get tired.
		But you could push them hard as hell when they're not worried about getting punched or worried about winning anything.
		That's the good thing about strength and condition.
		You can really push yourself without hopefully getting hurt as well.
		I think a lot of strength and condition people, they just wanna put the cool videos up and put the chains on and do this and flip the tire.
		It's like, I just wanna keep it simple, man.
		I wanna...
		I heard someone say, you want to leave a strength and conditioning working out feeling better, not worse.
		Yeah, yeah.
		That's like the Pavel Tatsulin idea, you know, that you don't ever go to failure and those kind of things.
		You're just trying to strengthen things up.
		Yeah.
		It's interesting because the sport is so new, fairly new, that there's all these different schools of thought about the right way to do it.
		And you really don't know.
	And so while you're going through your camp, you got to go, wow, I hope this guy's right.
	Yeah.
	There's definitely a right way and a wrong way.
	But there's also your way and my way.
	And they could both be right.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	But I mean, some guys like...
	Long, slow running sessions.
	Some guys like hill sprints.
	Some guys like mostly plyometrics and organized Tabata drills and things like that for strength and conditioning.
	And then there's guys like Nick Diaz who just likes doing triathlons and shit like that.
	Yeah, but this new guy I'm with, it's like much more detailed.
	My last training conditioning guy was great.
	You know, I'm never not in shape, so...
	But he would just kind of just go and we'd just work out.
	This guy, everything's planned out way ahead.
	Way ahead of what I'm doing.
	So what kind of stuff does he have you doing?
unidentified		Just...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All different types of modalities, I guess.
		He kind of switches it up.
		I do the...
		There's another thing, too.
		A lot of it's breathing stuff for warm-ups and whatnot.
		I can't remember the name of it.
		It was along with that RPR stuff I was talking about.
		But yeah, a lot of it's breathing before and after and breath holds.
		I've been doing a lot of that stuff.
		Oh, so it's like lung conditioning.
		Yeah, lung conditioning to warm up and to cool down, too.
		Yeah, breathing exercises are very underrated.
		If you look at what Hicks and Grace used to be able to do, that kind of fire breathing, you can literally strengthen your lungs.
		There was this dude that I used to do yoga with, his name was Yoga Ray, and that wasn't his full name.
		He was an elite singer in a band.
		I forget the band.
		I'm trying to remember right now.
		God damn it.
		Anyway, we always just called him Yoga Ray.
		But he had amazing cardio.
		And he had amazing cardio specifically because of his breathing exercises.
		Like, he didn't do cardio.
		He was just doing yoga and jujitsu.
		But this guy would never get tired.
		Yeah.
		Because he would do all these, like, radical breathing exercises.
		So his lungs were like a strong muscle.
		Yeah.
		That's what they always work your diaphragm.
		Mm-hmm.
		Yeah.
		So what other kind of exercises do you have you do that's different?
		With him, he's really paid attention to my body position and stuff.
		Because my back is bad, I try to stay away from deadlifts and this and that, but since I've been with this guy, I've been able to do all that stuff.
		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just because of making sure that you have better technique?
		Better technique.
		He always says, if you want to feel your abs and your hamstrings, if you feel your abs and your hamstrings in all your workouts, your back's probably safe.
		He's always touching me, making sure he's firing, making sure he's firing.
		Yeah.
		So, like, making sure that your abs are tightened.
		Like, say I'm doing a bench or something, he'll put, like, a towel underneath my back and, like, I'm trying to pull it out.
		Make sure you keep it pressed on the floor so I can't pull it out.
		That's protecting your back.
		So he's just, like, really cautious and just knows a lot about exercise physiology.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		And so you go to him, you say a couple days a week?
		Two days a week, yeah.
		Do you do any cryotherapy or ice baths or anything like that?
		No.
		I've done cryotherapy a couple times.
		I just don't have somewhere super close to me.
		I feel like if you want to do it, you've got to do it at least three times a week.
		Yeah.
		I think even once a week's not enough.
		Really?
		To get the benefits of it.
		Yeah, it's fucking awesome.
		I'll tell you that.
		I love doing it.
		I would suggest to anybody that if you can get into one of those things, do it.
		Do it whenever you can.
		Yeah.
		Apparently, ice bath's really good, too.
		Yeah, I've done an ice bath probably 10 years ago, and my dick hurt for like a half hour after that.
		And I'm like, yeah, I'm good.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's hilarious.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What about sauna?
unidentified		Do you ever do that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do the sauna.
		I love the sauna.
		I don't have one in my house.
		My wife has like a little teepee sauna.
		It's like a red light one.
		You can go in and your head sticks out.
		Is that good?
		But you lay down.
		It's not bad.
		It's not hot enough, I feel like.
		I feel like it's got to be hot.
		My wife's into the red light one as opposed to the heat one.
		Right.
		To me, I think you've got to suffer for you to really get the benefits.
		I think so, too.
		Yeah.
		I mean, I don't know about infrared sauna because I've never really done that, but Laird Hamilton was saying that he had some skin issues that he got from infrared But he does some wacky shit, man.
		That guy puts an aerosol bike inside of a sauna and then puts oven mitts on.
		Because it's too hot.
		Yeah, and he's sprinting in there.
		I'm like, Jesus, bro.
		Yeah, that's nuts.
		Yeah, he's a freak.
		He's a real freak.
		We have the Russian Banya in Jersey.
		They have this 200 degree sauna in there.
		Jesus.
unidentified		Crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		200 degrees?
		Feels like it, at least.
		And then they beat you with sticks?
		Yeah, I did that the one time, too.
		And I was with some of my Russian buddies, so they were talking to them for me and everything.
		They're like, ah, we give them the real treatment.
		And do you go in the cold right after?
		Because that's what they do, right?
		They jump in the water, cold water.
		Yeah, cold water.
		I did it all.
		I did like a...
		This guy, Tamor Valiev, who should be in the UFC. He's not.
		So Dana, get this guy Tamor in.
		What weight loss?
		He's a 35er.
		He's tough, man.
		He was a WSOF guy.
		Very good.
		Only has one loss, and he revenged his loss.
		But he's been training with us for a long time.
		World Series of Fighting is what?
		Professional Fighting League now, right?
		Oh yeah, PFL, yeah.
		That's where Rory is now, huh?
		Rory McDonald went over there.
		That's interesting.
		He's actually going to come on here with Eve Edwards.
		We're going to talk about it.
		That should be fun.
		Yeah, he was at Bellator, right?
		He was at Bellator.
		Lost his title.
		Or, excuse me, lost a fight to Gegard Mousasi and then lost to...
		Lima, right?
		Yeah, Douglas Lima.
		Beat him in the rematch.
		Lost his title there.
		Beat Lima.
		He had some good fights over there.
		But I think he just got a big offer from the PFL. They're looking for a big name.
		They're giving away a lot of fucking money.
		I don't know how long they can do that for.
		Right?
		A million dollars for people who win?
		Like if you win the tournament?
		Yeah, like seven people won at the last end.
		How do they do that?
		That's a lot of money.
		It's Kevin Hart behind it.
		Is he?
		Yeah, I think he's an investor.
		Kevin Hart is?
		Yeah, pretty sure.
		Kevin Hart invests in everything.
		That guy is such a genius in terms of business.
		He is, dude.
		I don't know how he sleeps.
		I don't know where he has his time.
		I don't know how you sleep, though, either.
		My hard work is an illusion.
		I don't know, man.
		But you're into so many things, you know?
		Yeah.
	Like, I feel like, damn, I don't have time for shit.
	I do a lot of stuff, but it's not hard.
	Like, this is not hard.
	This is fun.
	Like, stand-up, not hard.
	It's hard if you suck.
	It's hard if you're bombing.
	It's hard when you write new material.
	But it's got a lot of preparation, though, no?
	Yeah, there's some preparation.
	But it's not...
	Working in a fucking sand mine.
	It's not real hard work.
	As far as hard as in laboring, but still time consuming.
	It's time consuming, but it's fun.
	The hard part is the discipline things.
	Like forcing yourself to write.
	That's hard.
	Forcing yourself to go to the gym.
	The discipline in most things in life is hard.
	Once you're there doing it, it's mostly fun.
	People kind of exaggerate the difficulty of a lot of things.
	I just, you know, you're into bow hunting.
	You're like, damn, I want to get a...
	I don't have any hobbies.
unidentified		I need a fucking hobby.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Find Jim Miller.
		He'll take you bow hunting.
		Yeah, well, Corey.
		Corey.
		Oh, that's right.
		Corey's the best one for it.
		That guy's constantly hunting.
		Every time I check his Instagram.
		Gets up, works out, goes to hunt, goes back, works out again.
		When he came here, he brought his bow.
		No, we were shooting.
		Well, we have that machine.
		Yeah, that's it.
		Yeah, that techno hunt.
		Dude, I gotta use the bathroom.
		Yeah, well, let's wrap this up.
		It's 2.30, yeah.
		All right.
		Listen, thanks for coming down here.
		Let everybody know how to find you on Instagram and Twitter.
		Yeah, Frankie Edgar everything.
		Champ and a Tramp.
		Check it out.
		Champ and a Champ podcast.
		And when do you think you'll be back again?
		Any ideas?
		I think late spring, early summer.
		Okay.
		35. All right, brother.
		Always a pleasure.
		Thank you, sir.
unidentified		Thank you, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Awesome time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Frankie Edgar, ladies and gentlemen.
unidentified		Bye-bye.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know, it gets rough with the beans.
unidentified		Dude, holy shit, bro.

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