Dec. 17, 2018 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:55:17
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Three, two, one. | ||
| Was this beverage concocted by you? | ||
| Was it the first one? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You created Rye Brain. | ||
| If you ask me, yes. | ||
| If you ask Dudley, what does he say? | ||
| He would say maybe he was there. | ||
| Maybe he was there. | ||
| He might have been there. | ||
| He was definitely there. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But whose ideas? | ||
| It's hard to say with these things, Joe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Cheers, sir. | |
| Cheers. | ||
| Good to see you. | ||
| You look good. | ||
| You look good, too. | ||
| I would do better with this shirt, right? | ||
| Look at that shirt. | ||
| This is the new Ben O'Brien special. | ||
| Get that shirt. | ||
| Can you get this from your website? | ||
|
unidentified
|
You go to TheMeatEater.com. | |
| You go to the store, and it's there. | ||
| Yeah, so what people, you know, I had Steve on, Steve Rinella, our good friend, and we were talking about what they're doing, what MeatEater's doing. | ||
| But it's this very strange thing where this giant multimedia corporation has stepped in and they're throwing a ton of money. | ||
| At MeatEater and all these different companies that are involved in the outdoors. | ||
| All these outdoor activities. | ||
| That is true. | ||
| And they're putting it all together into one super network. | ||
| Juggernaut. | ||
| Juggernaut of outdoor activities. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| Yeah, uh... | ||
| It is something I've never been a part of before. | ||
| Something like I've never seen before in the hunting industry. | ||
| Has it ever existed before? | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| No. | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| Can't be. | ||
| Can't be. | ||
| We would have known. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, what better to try than something that's never been done? | ||
| Well, you had been doing your podcast for what? | ||
| Like a year now? | ||
| How long have you been doing it? | ||
| It's been about 10 months. | ||
| About 10 months. | ||
| About 10 months. | ||
| And we were just saying that I tried to get you to do one five years ago. | ||
| Five years ago? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Ben and I met on a moose hunt in British Columbia. | ||
| And I would say that it was like friendship at first. | ||
| Yeah, we had a great fucking time. | ||
| We had a great fucking time. | ||
| Shout out to Mike Hockridge out there in BC. Love you, buddy. | ||
| And Sam Soholt was with us as well. | ||
| I would always describe that as the most fun that I've ever had on a hunt. | ||
| It was a good time. | ||
| Maybe ever. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| We've done a lot of stuff. | ||
| We were laughing a lot. | ||
| That's why. | ||
| It was like a lot of fun and a lot of... | ||
| It wasn't a lot of hardship. | ||
| Like, we didn't sleep in tents. | ||
| No, we slept at Mike's house, which is great. | ||
| And then, you know, it was a lot of hiking and stuff. | ||
| And, you know, it wasn't successful until like the very last couple of days. | ||
| And you shot a moose and the celebration was fantastic. | ||
| We had a good time. | ||
| We had a great time. | ||
| We got super hammered. | ||
| The last night, remember last night? | ||
| What were you drinking? | ||
| Like some kind of spiced rum or some kind? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| It got real. | ||
| When you're drunk and you're drunk in the middle of nowhere and there's wolves everywhere, it's a different kind of drunk. | ||
| But remember? | ||
| Remember that we went and we shot your bull, right? | ||
| But then we took the heart and the liver and we started drinking heavily and you were up there just cooking liver and onions, cooking up a giant moose heart. | ||
| So we had like the fuel of organs of an animal you just killed. | ||
| Like just killed. | ||
| It's kind of like trash bag Canadian rum that was terrible. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that's every party, dude. | ||
| But it worked. | ||
| It worked a real good. | ||
| I don't know what's good rum or bad rum at all, to me. | ||
| Like, I kind of get good whiskey now. | ||
| I understand whiskey. | ||
| Sort of, but... | ||
| Being Irish, it's just like, it all just goes in. | ||
| Gets in there. | ||
| And then it just does what it does when it's in there. | ||
| Yeah, once the party's begun. | ||
| Like, here's what I don't get. | ||
| Tequila. | ||
| People go, oh, this is good tequila. | ||
| Every tequila I ever drink, I go like this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whew! | |
| What about that George Clooney tequila? | ||
| What is that? | ||
| He's got his own tequila? | ||
| Yeah, doesn't he? | ||
| Is it tequila, Jamie? | ||
| Jamie will know. | ||
| Listen, I'll tell you what. | ||
| Oh, it sounds like a fancy water bottle. | ||
| George Clooney tequila can suck a fat dick because Ron White's got his own tequila. | ||
| Numero Juan. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Sarcastic tequila. | ||
| It's just, that's what he calls it, Numero Juan tequila. | ||
| Numero Juan tequila. | ||
| I think that's what it's called, right? | ||
| Number Juan? | ||
| Or is it Number Juan? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Number Juan. | |
| It's number one? | ||
| Number one. | ||
| But if George Clooney wasn't good enough at everything else and all handsome and wonderful, he made a tequila company and did it right. | ||
| If you listen to the origin story of it, they did it right. | ||
| Well, fuck his tequila company. | ||
| There's number one, Ron White. | ||
| It's good shit, too. | ||
| Ron's is good shit. | ||
| I think George Clooney's got enough money, so fuck him. | ||
| But I think he sold it for millions and billions of dollars. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| See, what happened is he got married and he realized, listen, I'm going to have some money on the side in case this shit hits the rocks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What do I like to do when I'm a little bit bored and not feeling it? | ||
| Tequila. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Every man who has ever heard an awful divorce story, no matter how good it's going, every awful divorce started with, I do. | ||
| They all started with, I do. | ||
| They all started with, I love you, you're amazing. | ||
| And good intentions. | ||
| Started with good times, man. | ||
| I will say, again, I won't say the name of the person because that would just be mean. | ||
| Sprout them out. | ||
| Fuck it. | ||
| There was a feller that I knew in my younger years that got married and I was in the wedding party. | ||
| She got there. | ||
| That's weed. | ||
| It's very dangerous. | ||
| It's dangerous for you. | ||
| Yeah, it is. | ||
| You live in Montana. | ||
| You can't handle this yet. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| It's not legal there. | ||
| They made it illegal medical. | ||
| They made medical legal and then they voted it out. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Fucking savages. | ||
| California, buddy. | ||
| They made medical legal and then they had dispensaries and then they voted the dispensaries out. | ||
| When I was in Bozeman, last time I was there, they were shutting down the doors of the dispensaries. | ||
| You live in the golden land here. | ||
| Yeah, but you know what? | ||
| I hesitate to say this, but it's probably for the best. | ||
| Just to keep people like me out of Bozeman. | ||
| We're in a safe space. | ||
| It's just me and you. | ||
| We're in the trust tree. | ||
| We're in the nest. | ||
| Bozeman is so special. | ||
| It's such a cool little town. | ||
| We shouldn't be talking about it. | ||
| I shouldn't be telling people about how great it is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let's not talk about it. | |
| It's a terrible place. | ||
| Bears will eat you alive there. | ||
| They will eat you alive. | ||
| In the streets. | ||
| They're in the streets, Joe. | ||
| But the good thing is the dumb people get eaten by bears. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| People will turn up missing. | ||
| Like some asshole steals lawnmowers. | ||
| He'll just turn up missing. | ||
| What? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| He'll just turn up missing. | ||
| He'll be out there wandering through the forest. | ||
| Yeah, they get cocky. | ||
| You know, people that just make it to live to be 100 in L.A., they get eaten when they're like 35. Yeah. | ||
| In Bozeman. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| That's Bozeman. | ||
| It's beautiful. | ||
| Jesus Christ, it's a beautiful place. | ||
| Yeah, but that's in the summer. | ||
| I don't give a fuck. | ||
| I was there in the summer. | ||
| In the winter, it's like... | ||
| It's like that, but white. | ||
| Yeah, you ever seen the show Game of Thrones? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| In the winter, it's like White Walkers. | ||
| Right. | ||
| There's a large ice wall. | ||
| When did you move? | ||
| My family just moved there. | ||
| We just moved into our brand new home about three weeks ago there, Mr. Rogan. | ||
| But you were there before. | ||
| Were you renting? | ||
| Yeah, I was renting. | ||
| I lived out of a storage unit for a time. | ||
| Oh, I'd heard about this. | ||
| There was a rumor. | ||
| There was a rumor. | ||
| Wild Ben O'Brien lives in storage units. | ||
| Put a fucking cot in a storage unit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I did. | |
| It was a nice storage unit. | ||
| Shout out to Airport North Storage. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So did you sleep in there? | ||
| Did you get a gym membership or something? | ||
| Listen, Airport North Storage, it's time for me to tell the truth. | ||
| Oh my god, I can't believe you're coming clean with this. | ||
| I'm coming clean. | ||
| I did sleep in there some nights. | ||
| I slept in a storage unit. | ||
| Are there laws against that? | ||
| It's probably in the contract when you sign not to do that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| But I did it anyway. | ||
| What do you think will happen to you? | ||
| They would probably be like, get out of the storage unit and get a hotel, you weirdo, you fucking loser. | ||
| But I just did that as a sacrifice for my family. | ||
| We were building a house. | ||
| I needed to be where my job was. | ||
| Plus you could camp out there. | ||
| Yeah, you camp out there. | ||
| It's beautiful, man. | ||
| It's beautiful. | ||
| And Bozeman is so popular at that time of year that it's hard to... | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
| It's hard to find a place to stay for a short period of time. | ||
| Airbnbs and all that stuff. | ||
| That ain't really going down. | ||
| Amazing Airbnb. | ||
| They just figured out a way to rent houses out and make money when no one's there. | ||
| I'm good. | ||
| How did nobody ever figure that out before? | ||
| It's kind of crazy. | ||
| There's a lot of these technology companies. | ||
| Why weren't we doing that before? | ||
| Uber is a great one. | ||
| Dude, I was coming home the other night and there was five Lyfts behind me. | ||
| So, you know, Lyft is different because they have that weird thing on the dash, that little light on the dash. | ||
| And it was like I was being chased by these purple robots. | ||
| I was like, what the fuck is this? | ||
| This is strange. | ||
| I was going to ask if you heard the big storage unit story from the other day as you guys were just talking about that. | ||
| No. | ||
| This big storage unit story? | ||
| Yeah, you remember like the show that was on the storage wars or whatever? | ||
| Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| The guy that was responsible for selling them to people sold one to a guy for $500 and inside was a safe that had $7.5 million in cash in it. | ||
| Look at that guy. | ||
| Was this on the show? | ||
| No, it wasn't on the show. | ||
| It just happened recently. | ||
| So the guy that bought it actually was contacted by lawyers from the people who owned it, and he made a deal with them. | ||
| What's the deal? | ||
| What's the deal? | ||
| He kept like a million or something like that. | ||
| He gave the rest back. | ||
| Joe, do you want to go into a business? | ||
| What, going to storage wars? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Look at that guy's face. | ||
| Look at his face. | ||
| What the fuck? | ||
| That's what he's saying. | ||
| I sold that fucking thing. | ||
| His lady is happy. | ||
| Imagine how... | ||
| Dumb you have to feel. | ||
| You have a whole show about people finding things in storage units. | ||
| You sell a storage unit, and it's got seven million dollars in it. | ||
| Seven and a half. | ||
| Seven and a half million dollars. | ||
| Still, though. | ||
| The dude gets to keep a million. | ||
| How does that work, though? | ||
| Isn't it his storage unit? | ||
| How about he tells that guy to fuck off? | ||
| I mean, if someone lost seven million dollars... | ||
| Well, first of all, how dirty is that money? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| That money must be dirty. | ||
| Was it just the safe only in the storage unit? | ||
| Oh, that's got to be something bad. | ||
| You're going to get that handsome dude that was in the beginning of Ozarks, that handsome Mexican dude. | ||
| He's just a straight up murderer. | ||
| He's going to come visit you. | ||
| Hello, man. | ||
| Yeah, that guy was my favorite. | ||
| I was so sad when they... | ||
| Spoiler alert. | ||
| So sad when they killed him. | ||
| Like the dude from Breaking Bad that comes around? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The twins. | ||
| But did you see Ozark? | ||
| You ever see Ozark? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| I watched, like, the first couple episodes. | ||
| Well, I fucked it up for you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because it was a pivotal moment that I just gave away. | ||
| There's too many. | ||
| There's so many shows, though. | ||
| There are so many shows, but that's a damn good one. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is it good? | |
| That is a damn good show. | ||
| What's the guy who stars in that? | ||
| Jason Bateman? | ||
| Bateman. | ||
| He's excellent. | ||
| And the woman, Laura... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Linney. | |
| Linney? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Linney? | ||
| She's amazing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The family's amazing. | ||
| The kid's amazing. | ||
| It's a fucking show, man. | ||
| It's a show. | ||
| It's a show! | ||
| You get sucked in, and that Netflix lets you watch them all like a pig. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Are you ready? | |
| Listen, let me ask you a question. | ||
| I ask a lot of people this, and I said this at a Christmas party with a bunch of hunters, and I got the stink eye. | ||
| What's this guy talking about? | ||
| Conservatives? | ||
| I don't know about that. | ||
| Maybe I'm just weird. | ||
| Have you ever seen the movie The Greatest Showman? | ||
| Oh, is that the musical? | ||
| It is. | ||
| I've been forced to watch segments of that with my wife and children. | ||
| It is fantastic. | ||
| It's a very good movie. | ||
| Hugh Jackman's an angel. | ||
| He's an angel. | ||
| An Australian angel. | ||
| He is. | ||
| He's sent down here to save us. | ||
| Save us. | ||
| You ever seen him dance and sing? | ||
| He's magical. | ||
| I'm a hunter. | ||
| I got a hunting podcast, but I'm telling you. | ||
| You're a manly man. | ||
| Look at that beard. | ||
| Yeah, look at this thing. | ||
| But I love that movie. | ||
| It's a great movie. | ||
| I listen to it on the Pandora, the greatest showman channel, and I sing the tunes. | ||
| Listen, dude, my favorite comedy on TV is the unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. | ||
| Okay, so I can't be talking about manly things or non-manly things. | ||
| Hugh Jackman announces World Tour set to perform the greatest showman songs. | ||
| He's going to just sing the one-man show. | ||
| Look at him. | ||
| Look at him. | ||
| Wow, a one-man show. | ||
| He's a gorgeous man. | ||
| He's just, I mean, it's unbelievable. | ||
| Unbelievable. | ||
| But yeah, I get made fun of for this. | ||
| Of course, my son likes it, my wife likes it, but I enjoy, I get into like... | ||
| Wait a minute, your son, how old is he? | ||
| He's two. | ||
| He doesn't know any better. | ||
| Well, he's just like the music. | ||
| He's just happy that something's going on. | ||
| Yeah, he's just like there's something on the TV. He's not writing a critique after. | ||
| But if you put on Dora the Explorer and then you switch it over to that bullshit, he'd be like, is this fucking guy dancing? | ||
| No, he would be... | ||
| Put Dora back on! | ||
| Put Dora! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Listen, I think that I watch, like, if you watch things like Game of Thrones, where they're burning children. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And, like, it's entertaining, but sometimes I need a break. | ||
| I like to watch a man dance around and sing. | ||
| Or a woman, whatever, doesn't matter. | ||
| Those shows can get dark where you're like, what am I doing to myself? | ||
| You know, like Narcos. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| And they would just go into a fucking nightclub and gun people down and just sitting there watching, like, women and children get smoked. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And it's... | ||
| What's the other... | ||
| The show with Anthony Hopkins on HBO? What's that? | ||
| The robots? | ||
| I haven't seen that one. | ||
| Oh, Westworld. | ||
| Westworld. | ||
| That's the same way. | ||
| They're shooting kids on there. | ||
| Well, the kid's a robot. | ||
| We can just pop. | ||
| Yeah, they shot one right in the face. | ||
| It's dark. | ||
| So every once in a while you need to sprinkle a little bit of musical in your life. | ||
| I believe. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What is that, do you think, and here's, coming from a person that's been on a bunch of life-changing experiences, and I know you have, and I want to talk to you about some of them. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Especially the one in Nepal where you almost died and you saw children and wolves. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Babies. | |
| We talked about that on the- The last podcast, but it's probably, it would be worth revisiting. | ||
| What do you think this is? | ||
| Like, why are we so obsessed with life or death drama that's artificial? | ||
| Well, you see it in the show Westworld. | ||
| They talk about it being a game. | ||
| It being this game of excess. | ||
| Like, what can't I do in my real life? | ||
| So when you watch TV and you watch murdering and you watch this evil thing come to life, it really is something that you can be transported. | ||
| You can't do that in your regular life. | ||
| Well, for sure, with Westworld, what you're getting is basically a real live version of that Red Dead Redemption movie. | ||
| Yes, right. | ||
| So, when you play that, we were talking about the other day how this guy got in trouble because they have all these things in the game that you can do to people. | ||
| And this guy, like, tied this hooker up and threw her off a cliff and shit. | ||
| It's dark. | ||
| You can do whatever you want, but they were filming this stuff and putting it on YouTube. | ||
| And then YouTube would get mad, and YouTube pulled him off, but then people were like, well, wait a minute, though. | ||
| How come you can just do it? | ||
| Why did you have that in the game? | ||
| But it... | ||
| When my dad was my age, 30, 40 years ago, they would never have ever done anything like Game of Thrones or Westworld. | ||
| Ever. | ||
| Ever. | ||
| In fact, there was a Westworld and it wasn't anywhere near like it is in the modern day. | ||
| Good movie. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I think we've just stretched out the limits to which we're willing to explore really terrible and evil things for entertainment. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We've definitely changed what we're willing to accept and where the bar is. | ||
| In terms of quality, the bar is through the roof. | ||
| Oh, through the roof. | ||
| It's immersive to the point where you can't even explain what you're experiencing when you're watching these shows. | ||
| Yeah, so if you go and you see some great comedy from the 1990s, like you watch a Dave Chappelle or Chris Rock special from the 90s, that holds up 100%. | ||
| Seinfeld holds up. | ||
| But what I'm saying is, if that was out today, it would be a 100% stand-up special. | ||
| It would be like, oh, you see the new Chris Rock, Bigger and Blacker? | ||
| It's fucking amazing. | ||
| But, if you tried to put some bullshit-ass 1990s TV show on, on Netflix, if you tried to finagle some... | ||
| CSI Miami type shit. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Some nonsense. | ||
| I don't know if CSI Miami... | ||
| Is that even a show? | ||
| Is that a real show? | ||
| Yeah, it's a show. | ||
| There's a CSI Miami? | ||
| There is. | ||
| There's several. | ||
| There's many CSIs. | ||
| I guessed. | ||
| Law and Order. | ||
| Law and Order. | ||
| There's so many of those. | ||
| But we've expanded our willingness to explore things that are... | ||
| I mean, Game of Thrones, for example, is one of the best shows ever created, in my opinion. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| But it explores some... | ||
| Unthinkable things. | ||
| Awful things. | ||
| Awful things. | ||
| Well, the whole show, spoiler alert, is around a brother and sister who fucked and had a whole family. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So it explores these things that we would never even touch upon in our media in the 50s, 60s, even the 70s. | ||
| We wouldn't be touching upon those things in a way that we do now. | ||
| No. | ||
| Not only that, but... | ||
| Here's the thing. | ||
| Law& Order is not a bad show. | ||
| Like, if you watch it, you'll be entertained. | ||
| No, it's not a bad show. | ||
| So what happened? | ||
| Why did we go not good enough? | ||
| Like, what was it? | ||
| Man, that's a question. | ||
| Is that what we did? | ||
| Did they go not good enough, or was it like porn? | ||
| If you watch porn, and you watch some porn from the 1980s, and then you flip through like you porn, not that I would ever do that, but if you did do that and looked at all the different categories, you'd be like, what the fuck happened? | ||
| Why is gagging something people are looking for? | ||
| It's not an accident. | ||
| It's like a category. | ||
| We've expanded our ability to conceive of things in a media space where we can create. | ||
| You can create dragons that breathe ice. | ||
| There's things you can be transported like, listen, this isn't real so I can do this. | ||
| I can have this scene of rape or infidelity or incest that seems appropriate to me only in this fantasy world. | ||
| Man, sometimes I get down on that stuff. | ||
| Like, you watch enough of it, you're just like, I need a musical. | ||
| I need to be inspired that life is grand. | ||
| And that's how I feel about it, man. | ||
| And sometimes it comes across and like, this dude watches musicals? | ||
| But I do for a little bit of a break sometimes. | ||
| There's nothing wrong with it. | ||
| What I'm weirded out about is this natural human inclination towards progression in everything, good or bad. | ||
| Is that things just keep ramping up. | ||
| Well, but we're progressing with our storylines for, like, humanity in a weird way in media, but we're also, like, suppressing a lot of our—we're trying to suppress through social justice a lot of the same things, right? | ||
| Well, some people are, but I think it's a small, very vocal minority. | ||
| I think in reality, there's—the vast majority of people who find out about said suppression are upset by it. | ||
| And they're like, what in the fuck are you talking about with this safe spaces and all this nonsense? | ||
| Most people that hear that stuff are going, oh, this is just nonsense by a few really loud activist types. | ||
| Even on my podcast, it's something as serious as hunting is, because you're killing stuff. | ||
| You're going out into the world and plucking something that you didn't put there. | ||
| You're taking it away. | ||
| I think the core of what I think you do well and what I think others should try to do is ask why. | ||
| Why are we willing to... | ||
| Why is Game of Thrones the most watched show that's on? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Why? | ||
| I think they get away with it because it's so fictitious, right? | ||
| It's so obviously fiction. | ||
| You're living in this fictional world. | ||
| You have fictional white walkers. | ||
| You have dragons. | ||
| You have people that can survive in fire. | ||
| Yeah, but there's parallels to real life and then these ridiculous fantasies, but then these parallels to real life that travel along the same path. | ||
| You don't get to choose between the dragons and the incest. | ||
| They're both there at the same time. | ||
| I think it fulfills a lot of base needs, but it does so in this way that's obviously false. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's like, why are superheroes so huge to us? | ||
| If you stop and think about the number of blockbusters that are superhero movies, that are comic book movies. | ||
| They're coming out like once every couple of months now. | ||
| It's crazy! | ||
|
unidentified
|
That was a rare beast when I was a kid. | |
| When I was a kid, if there was a Hulk movie, I would have jumped for joy. | ||
| There was no goddamn Spider-Man movie when I was a kid. | ||
| There was a TV show and it sucked. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| It was a goddamn cartoon TV show. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Spider-Man, Spider-Man, does whatever a spider can. | |
| Spins a web any size. | ||
| Catches thieves just like flies. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Look out! | |
| Shhh! | ||
| Here comes a Spider-Man! | ||
| It was terrible. | ||
| And I used to get up early to watch it. | ||
| Because I was a huge comic book nerd. | ||
| You've watched the Lou Ferrigno Hulk, right? | ||
| Fuck yeah, I watched it. | ||
| That was a little bit... | ||
| I mean, you've watched the Batman with Adam West. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You watch him now and you're like, what is happening here? | ||
| So they came out with Superman. | ||
| He was like the first movies. | ||
| What is this, a Spider-Man TV show? | ||
| Wow, that's another TV show. | ||
| What's that guy in the background doing? | ||
| Who's that guy? | ||
| He don't look like he's doing anything good. | ||
| He's got a wooden stick. | ||
| He needs to know those shits are just for practice. | ||
| He needs to know that Spider-Man can shoot webs out of his hands and that wooden stick's probably not going to do much. | ||
| Then Spider-Man sort of changed his ability, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because what he used to be able to do, like now, he could just basically fly. | ||
| I mean, he just hurls himself through the air and sticks to buildings, you know? | ||
| It used to be a little harder to swing around back then. | ||
| He's like, let me drop my backpack full of textbooks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Get to it. | ||
| But he's... | ||
| There was no Spider-Man movies when I was a kid. | ||
| And there was a Superman movie. | ||
| And the Superman movie beget the Batman movie. | ||
| Batman movie came out. | ||
| Michael Keaton. | ||
| It was a big success. | ||
| People were shocked that Michael Keaton was Batman. | ||
| But it worked. | ||
| Was that like Danny DeVito was the penguin? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Everybody got a shot at Batman. | ||
| It was one of those things. | ||
| If you were Batman, you must be the It guy. | ||
| George Clooney was Batman. | ||
| George Clooney was Batman. | ||
| Christian Bale was Batman. | ||
| Arnold Schwarzenegger was Mr. Freeze, remember that? | ||
| That's right. | ||
| But they got to Ben Affleck and they went, nah, player. | ||
| They went, whoa. | ||
| Isn't that funny? | ||
| That's real. | ||
| The amount of people that will see you as Batman, it's whether or not they really believe it. | ||
| Christian Bale, I believe that guy could be Batman. | ||
| But Michael Keaton, for the longest time, was Batman. | ||
| Yes, but see, he started it off. | ||
| The difference between Michael Keaton is there was no one before him other than Bruce Wayne, and he was the first dark, real Batman. | ||
| I forgot about Val Kilmer. | ||
| I forgot about Val Kilmer. | ||
| God damn it. | ||
| Val Kilmer was fucking Batman. | ||
| What a talented human being Val Kilmer is. | ||
| He's a beast. | ||
| Dude, him as Doc Holliday in that, what's the name of that movie? | ||
| Tombstone? | ||
| Tombstone. | ||
| God damn, what's he doing in that movie? | ||
| That's one of the best westerns ever. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He was spooky. | |
| He was believable. | ||
| That was a straight up murderer. | ||
| Probably still the most quoted. | ||
| But see, nobody will think back on Ben Affleck's career and be like, he was Batman. | ||
| It's not just that. | ||
| He's done some good movies. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But he's also... | ||
| He almost says there's nothing around his career that he must feel like, oh man, if this goes bad, it's going to ruin me. | ||
| He's done so many great things. | ||
| He's a very good actor. | ||
| Don't get me wrong. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But... | |
| What is it about him? | ||
| Is he too handsome? | ||
| No, because Val Kilmer is gorgeous. | ||
| All those folks were very handsome. | ||
| What is it? | ||
| Is it Jiggly? | ||
| Is it him and Jennifer Lopez? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is that it? | |
| That was a tough time for him. | ||
| It was a tough time. | ||
| Did you say Jiggly? | ||
| Jiggly? | ||
| I think it was Gigli. | ||
| Whatever the fuck it is. | ||
| Whatever the fuck it is. | ||
| The man lost his mind. | ||
| Look, not everybody should get that kind of pussy. | ||
| It shouldn't be on your diet. | ||
| It's too rich for you. | ||
| Some people get diabetes, right? | ||
| They need to lay off the sugar. | ||
| Everybody's got different tolerances. | ||
| You eat cake every morning. | ||
| Jennifer Lopez, obviously, besides being beautiful and having a body like some sort of a test tube person, some lab-created super freak, obviously, she knows how to throw that thing. | ||
| She knows how to throw that thing. | ||
| I mean, it would be hard to argue with that fact. | ||
| Yeah, that's some goddamn Nolan Ryan pussy. | ||
| And together... | ||
| I'm not unaware of what you're talking about. | ||
| I love the fact that those things go so hard. | ||
| They go so hard and then they fizzle out. | ||
| You know what it's like? | ||
| It's like having a Pinto with a fucking Corvette ZR1 engine stuffed on the... | ||
| I just stomp on the gas on the highway, and there's no structure to it. | ||
| It's not designed. | ||
| Those wheels are not designed for that relationship. | ||
| Well, is that why? | ||
| You live in Hollywood. | ||
| You tell me. | ||
| Is that why these Hollywood relationships always become huge and then go away? | ||
| Sometimes they do. | ||
| Sometimes they work. | ||
| I live in Montana. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| Here's my thing. | ||
| This Alex Rodriguez guy that she's with, super athlete. | ||
| Smashes it. | ||
| Obviously, it seems to be working. | ||
| They've been together for a long time. | ||
| How long have they been together, though? | ||
| Months. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Weeks! | |
| They've been together for six weeks, Joe. | ||
| When she was with that little dude, the singer? | ||
| She got mad. | ||
| He was at the UFC that one time, remember? | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Yeah, she left. | ||
| No, which one was that? | ||
| That was the dancer. | ||
| That was the dancer. | ||
| Can we take a quick, this is kind of a PSA, public service announcement. | ||
| Can we take a hard left to Jennifer Lopez and get ourselves over to Kanye West real quick? | ||
| Yeah, we can, but look at that. | ||
| Alex Rodriguez. | ||
| Okay, take a look at that man. | ||
| Super athlete. | ||
| Probably got a dick like a goddamn baseball bat, right? | ||
| Anybody that has that many buttons... | ||
| Look at his hands! | ||
| Look at those top buttons coming down. | ||
| The size of his fist. | ||
| The size of that guy's paw. | ||
| He's had two plus $200 million contracts. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So he's doing... | ||
| So he's got $400 million and a giant hog. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But that... | |
| And he's a super athlete. | ||
| Of course it's going to work. | ||
| He's going to smash. | ||
| He's going to keep it together. | ||
| Let's talk about hunting. | ||
| He knows... | ||
| That guy knows how to keep it together. | ||
| Right? | ||
| That guy knows. | ||
| He knows how to play. | ||
| When the ball's coming his way, he smashes that fucking thing. | ||
| You gotta think Jennifer Lopez is not tolerating any losers in her life at this point. | ||
| That's all that's left. | ||
| She's had a few. | ||
| But that's all that's left. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Look at that guy. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| Super athlete. | ||
| Big, giant, handsome. | ||
| I'm a big sports fan. | ||
| I came up when he was just... | ||
| He was... | ||
| It was a god. | ||
| A baseball god. | ||
| They seemed to get along together. | ||
| See, that makes sense to me. | ||
| Just like it made sense when Val Kilmer was Batman. | ||
| That made sense to me. | ||
| But when Ben Affleck... | ||
| I don't know how his relationship was with her. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Maybe it was great. | ||
| It seemed like it was tumultuous, but I'm just observing. | ||
| The fuck do I know? | ||
| Nobody knows. | ||
| But there's some people where you need to have an online vote. | ||
| Should this person be Batman? | ||
| And the people will tell you. | ||
| They would not have voted. | ||
| I do not believe they would have voted for Ben Affleck. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I do not believe. | ||
| Here's the problem. | ||
| Like, The Rock. | ||
| Too big for Batman. | ||
| Here's why. | ||
| Because everybody would be like, oh, it's you, The Rock. | ||
| You're wearing a fucking Batsuit. | ||
| Is that The Rock? | ||
| Not everybody's 6'9". | ||
| They could do that in the movie, though. | ||
| They could make it funny and be like, yeah. | ||
| Are you? | ||
| In the movie, they could make it funny. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Right. | ||
| Is this The Rock? | ||
| Are you The Rock? | ||
| He could never be Superman. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Takes his fucking glasses off. | ||
| You're like, you're still a giant dude. | ||
| Well, the last time... | ||
| That shit doesn't work. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But that's how it works. | |
| You have to be a regular sized person. | ||
| But that's how it works. | ||
| The last guy that was a Superman was an unknown. | ||
| Henry... | ||
| Superman, they ran out. | ||
| They ran out of the well. | ||
| The well's dry. | ||
| It's like if they try to make another Hulk. | ||
| People are going to go, enough. | ||
| You've had eight Hulks. | ||
| They're going to keep making them, dude. | ||
| They're going to make a hundred more Star Wars in the next five years. | ||
| And you're going to have to sit through Han Solo, the pre-pre-prequel. | ||
| How can they do that? | ||
| That doesn't make any sense because Harrison Ford was Han Solo when Han Solo was young. | ||
| You can't just do that. | ||
| They just came out with a Han Solo movie. | ||
| I think they decided to reel back on that because that last one didn't do it. | ||
| It was a flop! | ||
| They need to ask me. | ||
| Just ask me. | ||
| They need to ask Joe. | ||
| I'm here for you. | ||
| George Lucas? | ||
| George Lucas is right now bathing in money. | ||
| He's just lying back in a warm, wet money bath. | ||
| He just forgot to listen to the podcast. | ||
| He just gets touched all day. | ||
| Rocky's going to be a superhero. | ||
| What? | ||
| He's going to start shooting next year called Black Adam. | ||
| It's a DC... Oh, they're making up... | ||
| They ran out of superheroes. | ||
| Is that Superman in the background? | ||
| That's Superman in the background. | ||
| That's in the DC... That's in the DC universe? | ||
| There he is. | ||
| Look, there he is. | ||
| They ran out of superheroes. | ||
| I mean, he looks good. | ||
| Yeah, but as long as they don't try to make him Superman. | ||
| Is he a bad guy? | ||
| Jamie, is he a bad guy or a good guy? | ||
| I honestly have never heard of this character, so I have no idea where he fits in the... | ||
| I remember when Netflix came out with Luke Cage. | ||
| I was like, wow, that's an obscure one. | ||
| That was a good one, though. | ||
| But The Black Panther was good. | ||
| Yeah, The Black Panther was good, too. | ||
| It's a great movie. | ||
| Yeah, it's amazing it took so long to make a Black Panther movie. | ||
| Racist! | ||
| Took so long, and it was a giant smash hit. | ||
| There you go, white people. | ||
| Get it together. | ||
| No comment. | ||
| Ben O'Brien in the conservative world has to be careful. | ||
| This podcast could sink his ship. | ||
| I'm pro-nuance. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How'd you come up with this shirt? | ||
| Pro-nuance type bullshit? | ||
| Listen, I think the way that I came up with it is because in the hunting world, there is this, speaking of conservative, there's this like, there's a conservative traditionalist, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And there's the more progressive folks that you have met and been around. | ||
| You've been around both, but been around both that are more environmentalists, more public lands, more access, right? | ||
| So there's kind of like two, of course, there's always two sides in politics, but there's, in this case, two distinct sides, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And the line kind of gets drawn around, one, a little bit around guns, but also a little bit around the environment. | ||
| So part of the biggest issue in politics for a hunter or angler right now is like, I really like guns. | ||
| I like the Second Amendment. | ||
| I dig what's going on there. | ||
| I'd like to support that. | ||
| But what I also like is healthy ecosystems and environment. | ||
| And I like habitat for wild game to live and public lands and access. | ||
| Well, it just so happens that a lot of the A-plus rated politicians for the NRA are like F-minus or D-plus rated in protecting wildlife and wild lands. | ||
| And a lot of that's around extraction and different things like that. | ||
| Extraction of minerals and oil and natural resources from those lands. | ||
| From valuable lands, right? | ||
| So then change the way these lands are scheduled, like what it's under? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of... | ||
| Those are around monuments, of course. | ||
| That was one big one. | ||
| But it's just around the general basis of... | ||
| Even as a hunter, but all Americans. | ||
| But as a hunter, I'm faced with, like, I love wildlife. | ||
| I love wild places, clean water, clean lands. | ||
| I'm all for that. | ||
| That's a huge part of what I believe in. | ||
| But I also believe in the Second Amendment. | ||
| I believe in my right to defend my family. | ||
| I believe in my right to own firearms and to do that. | ||
| So I believe in those two things. | ||
| But because our politics are the way they are, it doesn't leave room for those two beliefs when I'm at the voting booth sometimes. | ||
| Not all the time. | ||
| It doesn't... | ||
| It hardly leaves room for those beliefs in normal conversations with people, unless you absolutely know that the person's going to be objective and, as your shirt says, pro-nuance. | ||
| The idea that you shouldn't be able to defend your family is where it gets crazy. | ||
| It doesn't get crazy that you want to be able to defend your family. | ||
| Why do these movies all have... | ||
| Robberies and break-ins and bad guys. | ||
| Why? | ||
| These are real things. | ||
| These are real things. | ||
| So the idea that you should just be a sitting duck because there's so many crazy fucks out there that want to shoot up schools and go on mass shootings that somehow or another you're being conflated with them. | ||
| That you're being confused with them or categorized with them. | ||
| How is that? | ||
| These are different things. | ||
| They are different things. | ||
| They're just both involved guns. | ||
| They are different things. | ||
| It's like the insult that drove all those people in Toronto. | ||
| Remember that? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| What if that keeps happening? | ||
| That's happened many times. | ||
| You've seen people kill people with cars over the last few years. | ||
| It's been like four or five big events. | ||
| Are they mutually exclusive? | ||
| Like, I want to be able to defend my family and own firearms and have that freedom. | ||
| That's a big part of this country. | ||
| But I also don't want people to die in mass shootings. | ||
| I don't want that. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| On the other side of the coin, when it comes to environmental issues around hunting public lands and things of that nature, I want coal miners to have jobs. | ||
| I want... | ||
| People that work in the extraction industries to have an opportunity to work and live and do what they need to do. | ||
| But I also want to protect our ecosystems at all costs because you can't replace that shit. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And there's got to be other jobs out there if the government put its resources instead to propping up old ways of doing business that pollute the environment versus new ways of doing business with subsidies and with government programs. | ||
| It's entirely possible. | ||
| Yeah, there are certainly reasonable and healthy ways to mine copper. | ||
| Is there? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| There is. | ||
| I mean, there's responsible ways to do that, but at what cost? | ||
| You're still extracting. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You're still... | ||
| You're doing something. | ||
| You're still changing the natural environment there. | ||
| Yeah, someone was trying to make that argument with fracking with me. | ||
| I was talking to him about that. | ||
| Is it Josh Fox's documentary? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He was on the podcast, Fracking Nation. | ||
| It was a very good documentary. | ||
| When I had him on the podcast, it was interesting because he seemed like he had been attacked a lot for it and even misunderstood some of the questions I was asking. | ||
| Maybe they were coming from me. | ||
| And I was saying, no, this is just like, what is it called? | ||
| Fracking Nation? | ||
| What is it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Gasland? | |
| Gasland. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It's disturbing. | ||
| You're watching some aspects of it, like when they're lighting their water on fire, and then someone tried to say, oh, there's some places where you've always been able to light your water on fire. | ||
| I was like, okay, wait a minute. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's a long American tradition of lighting your water on fire. | ||
| This was a real argument that someone said. | ||
| That's not really from fracking. | ||
| And I said, okay. | ||
| These people said that there was no lighting the water on fire. | ||
| Then people started fracking. | ||
| The water smelled like shit. | ||
| They started lighting it on fire. | ||
| You're saying those are not connected. | ||
| Over the years, Joe, we've been able to light our water on fire for a number of reasons. | ||
| Fourth of July. | ||
| I would think to be confident about that, and I'm not confident about it, but to be confident about what that guy said to me when he was saying that it's always been like that, you would have to have done massive research. | ||
| You would have to have spent time there. | ||
| You would have to have been working either directly or indirectly with the scientists that are collecting the data. | ||
| You'd have to get it from them. | ||
| You'd have to know. | ||
| You'd have to see it. | ||
| You'd have to know for sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course you would. | |
| Of course you would. | ||
| Or you have to be a person who is not interested in the actual truth. | ||
| They just have an idea that they want to push through. | ||
| And this is a weird thing with certain right-wing folks. | ||
| There's a weird thing they want to push through that business is good and environmentalists are all pussies and hippies and weirdos and losers. | ||
| And these things don't jive in the world of someone who actually loves and appreciates the actual earth. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course. | |
| Of course, man. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| But there's no way that anyone could argue, right? | ||
| In the hunting world, there's nothing like access and public land and all these things become a big deal. | ||
| But you can define access in a ton of different ways. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| To me, access could be, I like wilderness, where the only way you can access it is on foot, via trailhead. | ||
| Someone else might say, access to me is elderly folks or disabled folks be able to get into a car and drive through a road on public land or get into an ATV and drive. | ||
| And so... | ||
| Politics, being what they are, politicians take this term of access. | ||
| It happened around national monuments. | ||
| They take one side said the president is stealing your land and the other side says the president is giving back your land. | ||
| Somebody there, either both sides are full of shit or one of them is. | ||
| I remember when this came up, Patagonia, which is a giant company in the outdoors, had a big ad on the internet that said the president just stole your land. | ||
| And then I heard Ronello talk about it and he said, I'm going to paraphrase, but he basically said, if you say that the president stole your land, you're not being careful with your words. | ||
| And you're not being active. | ||
| You're being inflammatory. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You're being absolutely inflammatory. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because it's not... | ||
| Again, that... | ||
| We're talking about Grand Staircase Cicillante and Bears Ears National Monument. | ||
| Bears Ears being... | ||
| In Utah being... | ||
| Explain to people what happened. | ||
| Oh, boy. | ||
| If you will. | ||
| I'll do my best, Joe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Please do. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you, Ben. | ||
| So, the Antiquities Act. | ||
| Let's go back to the Antiquities Act. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It's to protect... | ||
| The Antiquities Act is to protect... | ||
| Culturally or socially, emotionally culturally significant pieces of land. | ||
| All the way to things like the Grand Canyon, right? | ||
| And so, spin it up to the end of, there's a lot that I just skipped over, but I'm going to spin it up to the end of the Obama administration. | ||
| President Obama used his executive power to protect large swaths, millions of acres around Bears Ears National Monument, to protect not only the significant places for Native Americans and for Native tribesmen around Bears Ears, but many millions of acres around that. | ||
| And so, then it becomes, the problem I have and why that t-shirt exists, it becomes a political football throwback and forth. | ||
| It's not, at this point in time, what's best for Bears Ears, what's best for that national monument, what's best for it to be federally owned, what's best for the people, the jobs, the place. | ||
| It becomes what's best for each side and their rhetoric. | ||
| And so President Trump asked former Secretary of Interior Ryan Zinke to review, I think it was like ten monuments, to see if they should be reduced based on the predictions that Obama had put into place. | ||
| So he reviews these ten monuments, he cuts out eight of them, and hones in on two places, Bears Ears and Grand Staircase Escalante. | ||
| They then say we're going to reduce the size of these monuments. | ||
| When you say cuts out eight of them, what do you mean by cuts out? | ||
| They review the other eight and say... | ||
| They're fine. | ||
| They're good to go. | ||
| No changes necessary. | ||
| Some would say they did that as a straw man, as eight straw men, to knock them over and look at those other two. | ||
| They said we will reduce the area that is designated as a national monument. | ||
| And here again, it comes to both sides. | ||
| They would say because... | ||
| President Obama wielded his powers corruptly to protect, to be as an environmentalist, to protect lands that didn't need protected under the Antiquities Act. | ||
| Because the Antiquities Act does say it should be the smallest acreage possible to protect. | ||
| So now you get into stuff that I'm not an expert in around legal jargon and going back to things that were written in the 1930s. | ||
| But... | ||
| We get to a point where one side's saying, here is the Republicans trying to shrink down these monuments so that they can then go, companies that are, can then go and lease these places for mining, but they can't currently do under protections as a national monument. | ||
| The other side is saying, we're trying to protect culturally significant lands and these millions of acres need protected. | ||
| They need protected for lots of reasons. | ||
| So you end up with those two sides talking. | ||
| Now, it's easy to sort of make a hyperbolic argument one way or the other, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I mean, you could kind of exaggerate your position one way or the other. | ||
| And it's being done that way. | ||
| It's been done that way. | ||
| Are they drilling there now? | ||
| Or doing something? | ||
| Let's look that up. | ||
| But there's some leases that were approved for Bears Ears, I know for sure. | ||
| See, that's one of the things where people talk about the president doesn't have any real power. | ||
| There's Congress and there's Senate. | ||
| Not really. | ||
| They have some fucking real power. | ||
| There's checks and balances, but there's executive orders that can come down. | ||
| There's real power. | ||
| Listen, I'm not the expert on this. | ||
| I'm sure I fumbled through some of the details on that, but to me, the bottom line is something like that Why I like to live in the center is because something like that becomes, it becomes a thing that, it becomes a PR hit. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It becomes a thing that people are throwing back, they're throwing bear's ears back and forth because at the end of Obama's administration he made the designation and they repealed it or reversed it a year later. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Or some amount of time around a year later. | ||
| So it was only the way it was for a year. | ||
| And everybody's making it look like the government stole your land. | ||
| They just brought it back to exactly where it was before. | ||
| But they did open up the possibility, which is why Obama did it in the first place. | ||
| They opened up the possibility for drilling and natural resource extraction. | ||
| And that's what scares the shit out of people. | ||
| In these situations, there always seems to be spin on both sides, and being a part of these debates on a daily basis, and bringing in this information on a daily basis, it's tiresome. | ||
| You get tired. | ||
| You get tired of being pandered to by people. | ||
| You get tired of having to hear that this value system is right or this value system is right and there's no room to be anywhere close to the center around this stuff. | ||
| So you just get... | ||
| It's tiresome. | ||
| You know... | ||
| Public lands are the only place where I look at it and say, no, you've got to leave that to the government. | ||
| You've got to leave it to the federal government. | ||
| Don't leave it to the states. | ||
| It's the only place. | ||
| I mean, when I think about all the different things, like with... | ||
| Like, legalization of marijuana. | ||
| Now they're going to legalize psilocybin, apparently, in Oregon. | ||
| They're talking about doing that. | ||
| I'm like, yeah, leave it to the states. | ||
| They should be able to vote that in. | ||
| They should be able to vote in. | ||
| Like, all the crazy laws you have in weird states, and some states have state taxes, some states don't. | ||
| It's all good. | ||
| That's all good. | ||
| But when it comes to, like, federal land, the problem is if these states get into debt, and this is what people need to understand, they can sell it off. | ||
| So if Utah is in debt, I'm just not picking on Utah, but if they just, for some reason, they wind up in debt, which states do all the time, and then they sell off a giant chunk of land to some oil company, now you can't camp there anymore. | ||
| And by the way, that's your fucking land. | ||
| You pay taxes on that land. | ||
| That's your land. | ||
| You live in Arizona. | ||
| You live in Florida. | ||
| That's your land. | ||
| You live in Massachusetts. | ||
| It's yours. | ||
| The land in Utah is the whole fucking all of us. | ||
| The collected human race living on North America. | ||
| Listen to this. | ||
| Listen to this shit. | ||
| There's a guy named Senator Mike Lee out of the great state of Utah, which you rightly put that a lot of these things revolve around Utah for some reason. | ||
| Do you know why? | ||
| They have a lot of, the percentage of it, it's like something that's 70% of their acreage is controlled by the federal government, that's why. | ||
| Plus Mormons. | ||
| Let me, I'll take the first point, you take the second point. | ||
| Okay, go ahead. | ||
| So, Senator Mike Lee comes out and says, right, this is like the perfect way to spin this type of thing. | ||
| He calls back to, and Senator Orrin Hatch from Utah has also done this, he calls back to the Sagebrush Rebellion and things like that, saying that wilderness is akin to the European aristocracy. | ||
| Because only a certain few can go there. | ||
| Because you have to have two working legs that can get you up into wilderness. | ||
| Part of the basis of a speech he gave, and he's given it several times, is that public land and wilderness specifically is akin to the European aristocracy because only certain folks can go there. | ||
| If you would open up access, cut roads through it, then it would be for everyone. | ||
| So then it gets back to the semantics and the spin and the things that politicians push forward to try to convince you. | ||
| And they're still for you. | ||
| He's right in a certain way. | ||
| What he's right in is that if you put roads through, anybody could go through anytime they wanted. | ||
| On a car, if they had no legs, if they can barely walk, if they are in a wheelchair normally but they can drive a car, yeah, they can go in deep into the woods and they can enjoy all of the wilderness that has stopped. | ||
| That is true. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| It's not like there's a lot of places that they can't also go to. | ||
| They can go to a lot of places where they can do that. | ||
| You can go to Yellowstone. | ||
| Yellowstone's damn gorgeous. | ||
| You just drive through that and you see all the trees and the animals. | ||
| Yellowstone is a wonderful proxy for going outside. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's an introduction to what it is without really being in it. | ||
| Yeah, it's like a zoo that's free range. | ||
| Yeah, it's exactly what it is. | ||
| I live an hour from there and I've taken my family there and it just feels like I used to feel like, oh man, this is an illicit place. | ||
| As somebody who's gone into the wilderness and tackled these big challenges and hiked around in crazy places, this Yellowstone is like, nah, it makes me feel uncomfortable. | ||
| Then somebody said to me, I feel like it was this guy named Cody Rich who has a podcast called The Rich Outdoors. | ||
| He said to me, It's like it's an ambassador for real wilderness. | ||
| It's like a way to present to people that this thing exists without them having to actually strap on a pack, get some trekking poles, and hike miles up into the wilderness. | ||
| This is part of the problem. | ||
| Whenever you're talking about the wilderness, so few people go to it. | ||
| It's like if we were talking about the surface of Mars with the people that create the rover. | ||
| Well, you know how the surface of Mars is. | ||
| It gums up the wheels. | ||
| It's red. | ||
| It's definitely red. | ||
| How many people are going to Mars? | ||
| How many people are really going to the wilderness? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Not that many. | ||
| There's more people going to the wilderness than Mars. | ||
| But I've always said, like, the public lands movement, and I am definitely part of it. | ||
| I feel like I could probably represent the monuments things better. | ||
| But, like, I'm definitely part of it. | ||
| It's scary in a lot of ways. | ||
| Because people can say, like, keep it public, man. | ||
| Keep it public. | ||
| That's like apple pie and bald eagles and freedom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's an idea that we all pay into a thing, we all own, and anybody can go there. | ||
| It's super easy to get on that train. | ||
| It is real easy to get on that train and lose your critical thought around what is the idea of wilderness. | ||
| I mean, because when I think of my hunting now, like we first went hunting like five or six years ago, you would ask me this question, I would have given you a whole different answer. | ||
| What would you have said then? | ||
| I don't know what I would have said then, but not this answer. | ||
| I might have said like... | ||
| Well, you're a fairly youngish man. | ||
| I'm only... | ||
| You're growing. | ||
| I'm growing. | ||
| 31? | ||
| 33. Oh, you beautiful person. | ||
| Look at you. | ||
| I love you too. | ||
| Perfect complexion. | ||
| Look at you. | ||
| All your cells are firing correctly. | ||
| No liver spots yet. | ||
| This whiskey's really good stuff. | ||
| I'm Irish. | ||
| Um... | ||
| So what do you think you would have called it then? | ||
| So what I probably would have said like when we first went hunting in BC together for moose, what I probably would have said would have been around, it would have been less value based and more like I do it because my dad did it. | ||
| I do it because it connects me to my dad, like my dad, my family, my people. | ||
| I do it because humanity did it. | ||
| We filmed a video, remember, sitting on a thing. | ||
| We talked a lot about our humanity, right? | ||
| Like the drawing back through the history of time when the hunter was exalted in a tribe of people. | ||
| Well, it was the only way to get meat. | ||
| It was the only way to get meat. | ||
| So your skills that you acquired as a hunter made you important to the culture, the society, the everyday life. | ||
| I would have probably called back to that. | ||
| Not that I would say that's wrong now, but what I've come to find out over some other years of hunting in a lot of places is that I think my hunting is more about healthy ecosystems now than it is about anything else. | ||
| I think all of my efforts should be around clean water, clean air, places that we can go and explore. | ||
| And what that brings to our world, that brings more wildlife, that brings places for my son to go and experience these things. | ||
| And so I've changed over this very short time and the way that I do it. | ||
| Well, the more you experience the wilderness and then go back to the city and then go back to the wilderness, the more you realize how special it is out there. | ||
| And the more you realize when... | ||
| Like today, I went flying in a helicopter over L.A. with my good friend Bill Burr. | ||
| And as he was taking me up, I was looking at all this development. | ||
| We were talking about all these apartment complexes that are being developed. | ||
| And he's like, yeah. | ||
| He goes, you really see it when you're up here in the air. | ||
| Because you see where there was nothing. | ||
| And then a couple weeks later, it'll be flattened out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And then a couple weeks later, they start construction, and you realize, like, oh, this is how it spreads. | ||
| And that this is just something that people do. | ||
| And if you don't put a line, you don't draw a line, we're going to keep going. | ||
| We're going to make our way across the country. | ||
| And I've heard that argument from people that don't go to the wilderness. | ||
| Like, look how much of the United... | ||
| We don't overpopulate it. | ||
| Look how much of the United States has no one living in it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fly over and look down at all the places that don't have cities and don't have roads and don't have houses. | |
| Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| For now... | ||
| Do you know that none of this shit was here 200 years ago? | ||
| That's nothing! | ||
| Well, we plowed ground to plant the corn so you could have the things you have. | ||
| Well, fly over in 1819. Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Fly over 100, 200 years ago. | ||
| Bitch, there was nothing here. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There was zero here. | ||
| Fly around with Wilbur Wright and Orville. | ||
| Come on, man. | ||
| Let's see what you saw. | ||
| If you could just go 300 years, you have nothing. | ||
| You have zero things. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, I think there's some perspective, and I think honey has a lot going for it around the fact that as urbanization happens, you know, as jobs, even for me, like as jobs become more prevalent in urban places and people have to travel from wherever they're growing up to these urban places and live so removed from wilderness, so removed from sustainability, I think... | ||
| For a long time, because hunting peaked in 1982. There was like 17.5 million hunters around that year. | ||
| Was that because of Ronald Reagan? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He was president. | ||
| Reagan was president in 1982, wasn't he? | ||
| Listen, I wasn't even alive, so let's not get into that shit, dude. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| But like post-World War II, there was a rise in the modern hunter, modern sport hunter, however you could describe it. | ||
| There's this rise in 1982 and then a precipitous fall, right? | ||
| From there until 2016, there's around 11 million hunters in this country. | ||
| It's a big drop. | ||
| It's a big drop. | ||
| and i will always say that like the three things that i think happened were urbanization so people are getting removed from they're getting moved away from having hunting in their lives on a daily basis not that they're anti-hunting in any way they're just getting removed from from that thing getting your meat on your own they're removed from that and a lot of times you're removed removed from gardening and other types of sustainable use things. | ||
| The other thing is Disney. | ||
| Walt Disney is a nice man, but Bambi was not a good thing for our collective psyche around hunting. | ||
| Not just Bambi, but essentially all cartoons involving animals The animals were your friends. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Even predators. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Like Yogi was your friend. | ||
| He was your friend. | ||
| He wore a tie. | ||
| He was a bear attack. | ||
| He was a gentleman. | ||
| He had a hat on. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He had a picnic basket, he thinks. | ||
| He wanted your picnic basket. | ||
| Jamie, look up. | ||
| There was a guy. | ||
| There was a dude recently who was caught poaching in Missouri, and the judge said that he had to watch Bambi once a month during his entire sentence. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| See if you can find that. | ||
| That is real. | ||
| That just needs a reality show. | ||
| He's like, I know what to do, honey. | ||
| I know what to do. | ||
| We'll make him watch Bambi. | ||
| He poached a deer. | ||
| This is a guy who's like the whole, there was like a whole family, guys, who were in like a poaching ring or something. | ||
| I read this on the way over here. | ||
| Here it is. | ||
| Deer poacher sentenced to watch Bambi every month during a year in Missouri jail. | ||
| Yeah, this might be a judge that's looking for a little publicity. | ||
| Found it illegally killed hundreds of deer. | ||
| Sometimes taking over their heads and leaving the rest to rotten fields. | ||
| How about you keep that guy in jail for more than a year? | ||
| There he is. | ||
| Look at him. | ||
| David Barry Jr. Look at him. | ||
| Fucking dork. | ||
| Has been ordered to watch... | ||
| Here's one thing, man. | ||
| If that guy was killing him because he was poor and he was just eating deer and that's how he made his... | ||
| That's how he got food... | ||
| That's not the case here. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| He chopped the heads off and just took the heads. | ||
| Fuck that guy. | ||
| Just fuck anybody who does that anyway. | ||
| Fuck anybody who just wants to shoot something as damn delicious and massive as a deer. | ||
| A deer could feed a family for months. | ||
| Do you understand that? | ||
| Of course it could. | ||
| You understand that, but I mean, the people listening... | ||
| Or this asshole... | ||
| Do you understand that? | ||
| This asshole who shot this fucking thing? | ||
| You cut his head off, you piece of shit? | ||
| I fucking look forward to eating deer, and you shot it, and you... | ||
| Anyway, Walt Disney, I think that kind of treatment of animals has been something that's hurt hunting. | ||
| And the third one is hunters have hurt themselves. | ||
| Like that guy. | ||
| That's a poacher, not a hunter. | ||
| That guy's way worse. | ||
| That's a poacher, not a hunter, though. | ||
| But he's a guy who's hunting illegally. | ||
| That's what poaching is. | ||
| He's a hunter. | ||
| Yeah, but like camping illegally is trespassing. | ||
| It's not the same thing. | ||
| Yeah, but you're camping. | ||
| You're trespassing and camping. | ||
| You're still camping. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| Listen, I know you don't want to call him a hunter like someone who goes on stage at a company picnic is not a comedian. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's the same thing. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| He's a hunter, though. | ||
| He's still killing animals, yeah. | ||
| He's killed more than me. | ||
| That's a hundred. | ||
| Yeah, I'm a hunter, and he's killed more than me, so he's a hunter. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| He's a piece of shit. | ||
| He is. | ||
| But that's just like everything else, man. | ||
| There's people that are good Uber drivers, and there's some that'll try to pull you under a bridge and fuck your mouth. | ||
| It's bad people out there. | ||
| That's a good point to bring up. | ||
| I always bring up with hunting, it's like, oh, somebody killed a giraffe, or a guy killed a family of baboons and did a photo. | ||
| I saw that. | ||
| Do you see that? | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Wow, it's a fucking primate, bro. | ||
| Yeah, there's nothing good about that. | ||
| It's never going to go well for you. | ||
| It's never going to go well for you. | ||
| Did he put it online? | ||
| No, he didn't put it online to his, I guess, the credit that we give the guy. | ||
| Who put it online? | ||
| The Idaho Statesman or whatever the Idaho local paper was. | ||
| How did they get the pictures? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Probably from one of the folks. | ||
| He sent a mass email out to some friends and colleagues and things of, like, recapping his hunt in Africa. | ||
| Like, here's all the things I did. | ||
| And he, I think, from my reading on the guy, and I got a lot of mutual friends with him, say he's a good guy. | ||
| Like, he just screwed up. | ||
| Made a bad choice here. | ||
| That's a tough sell. | ||
| I would say so, too. | ||
| Yeah, they should put him in a cell and make him watch some monkey movies. | ||
| Yeah, I think he knew. | ||
| Like, if I put this on... | ||
|
unidentified
|
You've got to watch Game Con every month for a year. | |
| Planet of the Apes, you've got to watch. | ||
| The Mark Wahlberg Planet of the Apes. | ||
| The reality of baboons, and I've studied the work of Robert Sapolsky, who's a guy who's been on the podcast before, and it's really pretty amazing stuff. | ||
| What they found out about baboons that he studied, actually, because he actually studied a baboon tribe that the alpha males died off. | ||
| They were all eating out of a poisoned garbage patch. | ||
| There was a garbage patch that had sick food in it, just bad food, and the alpha males who got to eat first always chased everybody out. | ||
| They wound up dying off, and for more than one generation, I think it was several generations, They became really peaceful and calm, and they weren't the vicious, violent baboons that are the norm. | ||
| If you Google it, Sapolsky studies baboons, and Radiolab also had a podcast about it, which is where I first heard about it, and then I read what Sapolsky wrote about it. | ||
| But it is unbelievably fascinating. | ||
| It shows how you can have this insane, violent animal culture, and then the cunts get removed. | ||
| And when the cunts get removed, everybody chills the fuck out. | ||
| It's really, really quite fascinating. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But baboons, for the most part, I mean, maybe he shot the nicest baboons ever, but for the most part, they're a bunch of baby-eating cunts, and they'll steal your fucking kid. | ||
| That little two-year-old that you love so dearly, that little motherfucker would be on a porch somewhere, and if there's baboons around, they'll snatch him and eat his head. | ||
| Well, that's like, when I was in Africa, I hunted Africa one time in my life, and... | ||
| Our PH and our guide both said... | ||
| A PH is a professional hunter. | ||
| The structure is like there's a professional hunter, which is essentially your guide, and then there's trackers, which are usually native folks that help track in the game, spotting the animals, things like that. | ||
| But our PH... He was like, if you see a baboon, shoot it. | ||
| He's like, we have lots of irrigation here to maintain this ranch, and they rip it up, and they're basically terrorists around coming around our camp, messing with our fires, messing with our food. | ||
| He was like, if you see one, shoot one. | ||
| And that was the instruction that I got. | ||
| And I never did, but, you know, given that instruction from somebody like that, like, hey, this is a good thing for our landscape. | ||
| Go and do it. | ||
| Now, that's very far removed from stacking them up. | ||
| Yeah, very far. | ||
| And with a big smile on your face holding a bow. | ||
| Didn't he shoot a baby? | ||
| There's some babies. | ||
| Like a whole family. | ||
| They don't stay in one place either. | ||
| If I would have came to you and I said, listen Joe, here's my plan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What I'm going to do is go to Africa and hunt. | |
| And then... | ||
| You know, like, I'm gonna shoot some baboons. | ||
| I mean, it's a good thing for this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'd be like, don't tell anybody. | |
| Yeah, you'd be like, don't. | ||
| Certainly don't take a photo of you posing with an entire family of deceased primates. | ||
| I had a friend who was in Africa, and he got attacked by a baboon. | ||
| A baboon tried to steal his food. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I forget what the context of it was. | ||
| It was quite a few years ago, but he said it was spooky. | ||
| He said they don't seem like a monkey and they don't seem like a dog monkey. | ||
| Like a wild... | ||
| You ever see when they open their mouth? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's like a dog mouth. | ||
| It's like a dog monkey. | ||
| It's like a dog fucked a monkey. | ||
| Show a baboon. | ||
| Let me see a baboon with its mouth open. | ||
| Never thought of it that way, but I'll give it to you. | ||
| But they have a long, stretched out mouth like a wolf or something. | ||
| It's like a werewolf. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's not like a regular person. | ||
| They're real weird, man. | ||
| They have all these characteristics that are of primates, but then they have this extra weirdness to them. | ||
| Yeah, and this wildness to them, too. | ||
| But doesn't that come down to the core of some of these... | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| I mean, come on. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| That's like a werewolf. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That is a werewolf. | ||
| That's like part... | ||
| Look at that face. | ||
| That lion and that baboon. | ||
| Look at those canines that roll back. | ||
| But look at even the shape of the jaw. | ||
| It's very dog-like. | ||
| It's very elongated and dog-like. | ||
| It's a very strange animal. | ||
| Look at that face, man. | ||
| That is a crazy beast. | ||
| And my friend said, I forget the story. | ||
| It was quite a long time ago. | ||
| But he stole some food and snarled at him and snatched something from him. | ||
| But he said it was very scary. | ||
| He said, and you know, it wasn't even that big. | ||
| It wasn't like 60, 70 pounds or something like that. | ||
| He said, but it's big. | ||
| They'll fuck you up. | ||
| They're not. | ||
| Of course they will. | ||
| You know. | ||
| It's different if you're living around them. | ||
| It's just, these things are different. | ||
| Like we, we were talking about around the old meat eater incorporated offices the other day around how do you, how do we as hunters who are around these animals all the time and shit, how do we, and something happens, somebody gets mad about this guy killing all these, these baboons. | ||
| What do we say? | ||
| When there's a hunting scandal, what do I say? | ||
| Of course I let it go. | ||
| Well, most people don't even know about it. | ||
| It hit the hunting world. | ||
| But that one was on NBC, CNN. This one went pretty big. | ||
| Invariably, these things happen where... | ||
| How come that didn't go as big as Cecil? | ||
| Stop and think about that. | ||
| Because to me, it's more kind of fucked up. | ||
| It's more egregious than... | ||
| The Cecil thing, it's a normal thing. | ||
| But I just think we're desensitized to it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Cecil came at a time where there was more sensitivity to it. | ||
| And it just hit a news cycle. | ||
| The Trump news cycle probably dominates any other thing that happens in the news. | ||
| It doesn't get the time. | ||
| The reason why I say that Cecil's normal, I don't think that it's good. | ||
| I don't think you should... | ||
| Just go over there and shoot lions. | ||
| But people have been doing it forever. | ||
| Like, if you ask me how many people go over there to hunt baboons, I'd be like, do they really? | ||
| Is that like a normal thing? | ||
| Like, it doesn't seem normal, right? | ||
| Like, even though I don't... | ||
| I mean, I've had this conversation many times on this podcast. | ||
| I don't think you should shoot things that you don't eat unless there's a need in terms of, like, some sort of an imbalance. | ||
| Like, just as a joke... | ||
| Imagine if eagles were like rats. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They were everywhere. | ||
| There's a reason why you could just kill rats. | ||
| It's because you have to. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay, this is what overpopulation looks like. | ||
| You put a trap in your fucking garage and you smash the head of this living creature and you're happy. | ||
| Almost all things are categorized as rodents who you would do that to. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Well, not true. | ||
| Really, right? | ||
| Like, squirrels are cute. | ||
| They're adorable. | ||
| Yeah, but they just don't get in your house. | ||
| But if there was half a dozen squirrels in your garage and you could set traps and get them out of there, you would. | ||
| But it's a different thing. | ||
| Like, you'd feel bad if you stomped one. | ||
| Probably. | ||
| You'd stomp a rat. | ||
| You saw a rat in your kid's room, you'd fucking stomp that thing to death. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Twice. | |
| Right? | ||
| If you saw a squirrel in your kids, you were trying to throw a blanket over it. | ||
| So why do we put those types of value... | ||
| Why do we apply those value systems to animals like that? | ||
| Because they're overpopulated. | ||
| And because traditionally, there have been carriers of plague. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, the real story about the Black Plague is not just that the rats were carrying it, but in fact that the ticks and the... | ||
| Was it... | ||
| Ticks or fleas that were on the rats were carrying the black plague. | ||
| I want to say it's fleas. | ||
| Could be. | ||
| And that this is how the bubonic plague got spread. | ||
| It got spread actually, in fact, through the ticks that were carried by the rats. | ||
| Is that what it is? | ||
| Fleas? | ||
| Fleas. | ||
| Thank you, Jamie, with Google search. | ||
| The difference is that squirrels are not overpopulated and that raptors are killing them off left and right. | ||
| It's a primary source of food for a lot of these flying raptors. | ||
| Eagles and hawks and stuff like that. | ||
| Sure a lot of other things eat them too, but there's enough balance out there, but rats Rats lock into us. | ||
| I mean they lived without us for a long time But once they found us they're like oh look at this shit these dumb motherfuckers have holes in their ground You can live under their houses. | ||
| He just they put garbage out every day. | ||
| Yeah, you just go jack their garbage You got plenty of food. | ||
| This is great But we treat all types of animals very differently, right? | ||
| And we apply our own specific feelings about these animals to them. | ||
| Like, the bear with a name doesn't know that it has a name. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It's not aware that we've applied this special meaning to it. | ||
| It doesn't know that. | ||
| Our application of our feelings and our engendering doesn't change the nature of the wolf or the bear. | ||
| It will rip your face off. | ||
| It will kill as many elk as it can. | ||
| Well, there's a real problem in depicting them. | ||
| The anthropomorphization of animals depicts them as your friends, and that's a hard thing to shake. | ||
| It's not that they're bad. | ||
| And this is where the real problem with someone going around shooting baboons and posing like he did a great thing is. | ||
| It's not that these animals are bad. | ||
| They should be respected and understood and appreciated. | ||
| Now, if you are a part of a baboon clean-up crew... | ||
| I was listening to Ranella's podcast today. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that there was a guy on the show that had killed somewhere near, what is it, like 7,000? | ||
| Many thousands, yeah. | ||
| Thousands. | ||
| Like his dad's, there was a, what was it, like there was a flood, I'll probably mess this up, there was some sort of weather event that pushed all these kangaroos onto his dad's ranch, and his dad was going out every day and just whacking ad nauseum. | ||
| Thousands of kangaroos. | ||
| And that they have to do this because they don't have any natural predators and they'll just devastate landscapes. | ||
| And we've played videos. | ||
| Let's see if we can find one real quick. | ||
| If we play, we get kicked off of YouTube? | ||
| Probably, right? | ||
| There's a video of like a swarm of kangaroos in Australia. | ||
| Dude, I had no idea. | ||
| We were reading about it, about the overpopulation. | ||
| I had no idea. | ||
| It's like 100 pound locust. | ||
| That's what it's like. | ||
| I was reading, I can't remember the guy's name, but I was reading this paper. | ||
| Hold up just so I can see it. | ||
| I was reading. | ||
| Don't put it up on the YouTube. | ||
| I don't want the kids to get mad. | ||
| Oh, there it is. | ||
| This is nothing. | ||
| This ain't shit in comparison. | ||
| Are those kangaroos? | ||
| Yeah, these are all kangaroos. | ||
| This is pretty crazy, but we were watching one when there was a swarm running across a field. | ||
| Like, look at that, bro. | ||
| That's rats. | ||
| Come on, man. | ||
| If you saw that many rats in a field, you would go, I am going to go get my gun, and I'm going to kill these fucking rats. | ||
| Right? | ||
| You wouldn't tolerate that, but these are cute. | ||
| Is our, like, the endangered species has come into play here in a weird way, because is our caring for animals dictated by the number of the animal that there is? | ||
| It isn't, and it is. | ||
| See, it's not for us, right? | ||
| We're over here in the valley of Southern California. | ||
| Very nice. | ||
| Sipping rye brains, having a good old time. | ||
| Me, buddy, Ben O'Brien, young Jamie. | ||
| We're wonderful. | ||
| It's air conditioned. | ||
| It's fantastic. | ||
| Very nice. | ||
| We live a good life here. | ||
| If you're in Australia, you're killing those fucking things. | ||
| Oh, let me tell you, like, when I went, Remy Warren, our mutual friend, first took me to New Zealand. | ||
| He took me to a sheep station. | ||
| A giant, this is basically a ranch. | ||
| A big sheep ranch. | ||
| We hunted fallow deer there. | ||
| There were deer everywhere. | ||
| On the way out, we met a guy, and we called him the Rabbit Man. | ||
| He looked like a superhero. | ||
| He was riding on just a two-stroke bike with rabbit hide covers for the handles. | ||
| He had a helmet on. | ||
| He looked like a superhero, like a leather jacket and a.22. | ||
| He was riding around. | ||
| His job was to ride around and shoot rabbits all night long every day, seven days a week. | ||
| He had killed millions of rabbits. | ||
| Millions. | ||
| Millions. | ||
| And he would log, every night come back and log the number of rabbits he killed. | ||
| They weren't eating these rabbits. | ||
| It was population control. | ||
| These rabbits were digging under fences. | ||
| These rabbits were destroying the landscape. | ||
| They couldn't run sheep. | ||
| The land was invaluable because these rabbits were... | ||
| It's almost like turn of the century America. | ||
| We had some of the same situations. | ||
| But we met this guy whose job it was to, with impunity, kill as many rabbits as he possibly could. | ||
| Are rabbits an invasive species? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Down there they might be. | ||
| Well, find out because... | ||
| This was New Zealand and most... | ||
| Almost everything. | ||
| Almost everything is non-native. | ||
| That is a crazy spot. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's one of my favorite spots. | ||
| I could be on the board for tourism for New Zealand. | ||
| Really? | ||
| I love that place. | ||
| European rabbits were introduced to Australia in the 18th century. | ||
| Okay, but what about New Zealand? | ||
| Yeah, what about New Zealand? | ||
| Jamie, not paying attention. | ||
| It's right next to it, I think. | ||
| It's right next to it. | ||
| They can't swim, bro. | ||
| Rabbits don't swim. | ||
| But I bet it's the same thing, right? | ||
| It's the same thing, I'm sure. | ||
| We never did get so deep into... | ||
| Yep, invasive species. | ||
| A number introduced. | ||
| Yep, European rabbit. | ||
| Yeah, I think everything in New Zealand was introduced. | ||
| Yes, most of them. | ||
| Sorry, New Zealand really needs to kill these adorable rabbits. | ||
| Yeah, they have to. | ||
| By the way, you can eat them. | ||
| They're fucking delicious. | ||
| Rabbits are delicious. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, but the problem is, my daughter has a fucking pet rabbit, okay? | ||
| And we put it in this little cute cage, and when it wants to come out and be held, it puts its little paws on it. | ||
| It makes noise. | ||
| You open the cage up, take the rabbit out. | ||
| Ooh, delicious. | ||
| You can't go out and fuck. | ||
| I love hunting rabbits, man. | ||
| They're delicious. | ||
| But I was reading this environmental... | ||
| I was like a theorist. | ||
| This guy was talking about the types of hunting. | ||
| And I was reading this. | ||
| I'm like, this is not... | ||
| This might be a smart guy, but he don't have it. | ||
| He was talking about... | ||
| Three types of hunting. | ||
| Therapeutic. | ||
| What is that, Jamie? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It was in that pic with the rabbits. | ||
| It said stoats. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Stoats? | |
| I've never heard of it. | ||
| It's eating a nested bird. | ||
| Probably another... | ||
| They look cute, but... | ||
| Well, you know, that's one of the things that also I learned about from the Meat Eater podcast is how many squirrels kill birds. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| They kill and eat birds. | ||
| Like, that's a big part of the decimation of the population of certain bird species is attributed to squirrels. | ||
| I'm interested in this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Look at it. | |
| He eats fucking mice. | ||
| He's a murderer. | ||
| It's a little fucking badass. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
| That little thing eat a mouse that's about, well, it's a rat. | ||
| It's eating a rat that's like his size. | ||
| Is this something on New Zealand? | ||
| I think, I believe so. | ||
| It's a little New Zealand murderer. | ||
| The only thing I've run into that was native to New Zealand was a Kia. | ||
| It was like a parrot that flies around. | ||
| Was the thylacine native to New Zealand or just Australia? | ||
| That's Australia, right? | ||
| That's the Tasmanian tiger? | ||
| He's also known as a short-tailed weasel. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| He's nine ounces. | ||
| North America. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| North America? | ||
| Is that little fuckers out here? | ||
| He's like Merck and the genius and stuff. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| He got over here. | ||
| Distinguished by... | ||
| Oh, he's a weasel. | ||
| He looks like a weasel. | ||
| Larger size and longer tail with a prominent black tip. | ||
| It's kind of weasel. | ||
| Terrific level. | ||
| Carnivorous. | ||
| Isn't it funny that weasels are thought to be like little bitches? | ||
| Ah, you little weasel. | ||
| Weasels are badass. | ||
| Look at this weasel. | ||
| There he goes. | ||
| Look at him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And weasels will fuck up a cobra. | ||
| How about that? | ||
| Look at him. | ||
| What is he doing there? | ||
| He kills rabbit. | ||
| That's how he's killing? | ||
| Look at it. | ||
| Stote kills rabbit ten times its size. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| Two million views. | ||
| There it is. | ||
| Oh, there it is. | ||
| Look how small he is, and he's chasing a rabbit. | ||
| That's insane. | ||
| What a little ruthless motherfucker. | ||
| Yeah, don't show it, but we'll talk it through. | ||
| But it seems very cute. | ||
| Should we do the play-by-play on this show? | ||
| Life's stout. | ||
| Oh, life. | ||
| Stout kills rabbit ten times the size. | ||
| Would you get stout or stout? | ||
| BBC One. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Is it stout or stout? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| I'd run into this critter. | ||
| I'm outside. | ||
| Look at this little motherfucker. | ||
| Look at him go. | ||
| He really is ten times the size. | ||
| He's very adorable. | ||
| He's kind of adorable, though, the way that he's doing it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What a ruthless little cunt. | |
| What's he going to do? | ||
| Is he going to go for the hindquarters like a wolf? | ||
| The other rabbit tried to stop him. | ||
| That's like Captain Savajo over there. | ||
| Look at this one. | ||
| Let some pass by. | ||
| Oh, he's going low. | ||
| How about the other rabbit just sits there while his friends gets jacked? | ||
| There's dozens of rabbits that aren't. | ||
| Let's gang up and get this stoat, man. | ||
| How crazy is he doesn't try the rabbits that are really close to him? | ||
| Oh, now he goes. | ||
| Where's he going? | ||
| Is he going like... | ||
| So he's probably going to hit those hindquarters. | ||
| He's going to get some shock and some blood loss. | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| He's going to get the neck. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No, he's going for that. | ||
| Oh, he's going. | ||
| He's going to pull him down with the legs. | ||
| You get blood loss. | ||
| No, he's going. | ||
| Oh, Joe Rogan. | ||
| He's going up. | ||
| Oh, Joe Rogan. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| He's going deep. | ||
| Look at the other rabbit. | ||
| He's like, what's going on? | ||
| He's like, this doesn't seem right. | ||
| The other rabbit's just going to look away, you pussy. | ||
| We're not friends. | ||
| Not even help your friend. | ||
| What a little monster. | ||
| That is so crazy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's deep. | |
| He's deep on it. | ||
| That is so crazy. | ||
| So he's got his teeth, for those, I don't know who's watching, but he's got his teeth, like, behind the ears of this rabbit. | ||
| He's killing it by biting the back of its neck, and he literally is ten times smaller than it. | ||
| That's amazing. | ||
| Is it dead right there? | ||
| Wow, yeah. | ||
| The other rabbit's like, dead? | ||
| Thank you, BBC. Fucking dorks. | ||
| Help your friend. | ||
| That's why you're gonna go extinct, you cunts. | ||
| You're a fucking asshole. | ||
| You have big teeth. | ||
| How about you turn on the bitch? | ||
| Turn on him and bite him in the neck. | ||
| Is it stout? | ||
| Or stout, you think? | ||
|
unidentified
|
S-T-O-A-T. Stout. | |
| It seems like it would be stout. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| No, but a U would be stout. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Stout. | |
| Stout. | ||
| I've never seen one of those before in my time outside. | ||
| Never even heard about it. | ||
| Never even heard about it. | ||
| I didn't even know it was a thing until 10 minutes ago. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They're savage. | |
| They're savage. | ||
| Next thing you know, they're going to be nipping at your calves trying to take you down. | ||
| That should be the American animal, not an eagle. | ||
| I know. | ||
| Weasels in Ireland and here, everywhere else, they're called short-tailed weasels. | ||
| Oh, so it's a kind of weasel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Weasels are vicious little motherfuckers. | ||
| That's what I'm saying. | ||
| Why are weasels like the weasel? | ||
| When you think about Pauly Shore, when he would do the weasel, you thought of him whistling. | ||
| You didn't think of him as being a ruthless killer of something ten times in size. | ||
| No, weasels are cute. | ||
| Like if Pauly Shore was taking down giant bitches, like huge, 25 feet tall women and just smashing them. | ||
| That would be what... | ||
| That's a sweet little animal. | ||
| But even the way that little weasel was chasing the rabbit was kind of cute. | ||
| He was just bounded along. | ||
| Adorable. | ||
| Very adorable. | ||
| What was adorable was he would run by... | ||
| He was so mean. | ||
| He would run by the other rabbits. | ||
| He didn't care. | ||
| He determined about this rabbit. | ||
| This brings up... | ||
| On my podcast, we had a guy on there named Randy Newberg. | ||
| I know Randy. | ||
| Randy's awesome. | ||
| Yeah, he's great. | ||
| Lives in Bozeman, and he's great. | ||
| We did a deal about ethics. | ||
| And a lot of folks wrote in and they said, I'd be interested to hear what you think about this. | ||
| If an animal is wounded, and say you're up in a tree stand or you're hunting spot and stalk, or in the case of Randy, hunting over a waterhole, if you're doing that and you're a hunter, you hold a tag, you can choose which animal you'd like to kill. | ||
| You have a buck or a doe, a male or female tag, you can choose which one. | ||
| You want to kill. | ||
| If an animal comes by you that has been wounded, clearly been wounded, clearly struggling, you know, in the case of Randy Newberg, he was sitting on a waterhole, and I believe he was in Arizona, with a trophy tag, which means there was a lot of big mule deer walking around, a lot of big antelope walking around in that situation, pronghorn. | ||
| Well, let's explain to people that are listening that don't know what we're talking about. | ||
| When he says a trophy tag, what he means is there's some units that are designated as trophy areas. | ||
| It doesn't mean you don't eat the animal. | ||
| What it does mean is that it's very difficult to get into this area. | ||
| You have to have a certain amount of points, which means you're putting in to the pool of money that is for conservation, for habitat protection. | ||
| You're putting in every year to try to get a tag. | ||
| get a tag in a lot of these places once a lifetime for some places yeah in some places i've drawn every 10 years drawn tags that are once every 15 years i mean it's a very complicated point system but yeah so what but let's explain why they do that they do that to preserve the population of big mature animals so that this you can't just let anybody go in like there's some places that are called over the counter yeah what an over-the-counter unit is | ||
| is they know that there's a large healthy population of animals and they either the wildlife biologists and the state representative they choose to just let anybody go in and when they think the animals are diminishing too much then they'll put a cap on it, but for now, it's an over-the-counter unit. | ||
| And then they have places that are very difficult to draw units. | ||
| And those difficult-to-draw units is one of the places where Randy Newberg was because he was looking for a big, old, mature animal that had spread its genetics. | ||
| And it's tough. | ||
| The term trophy has been so weaponized that it's tough. | ||
| It's my fault for using... | ||
| I use it not in the term that most people think of it. | ||
| I think of trophies as a lot of different things. | ||
| A mature animal, that's, again, once in a lifetime. | ||
| It takes so many years to draw. | ||
| I think you should just call it a limited-draw unit. | ||
| Limited-draw unit. | ||
| Yeah, limited draw unit, hard to get area. | ||
| Once in a lifetime hunt where you're never going to hunt there again and you're looking for the most unique animal that you can find, the most mature animal that you can find. | ||
| But along the way... | ||
| Yeah, but along the way, like in this case, ethically, he runs into a limping antelope, a pronghorn. | ||
| It comes into a water hole and it's limping to the point where he thinks, oh... | ||
| And this happens to a lot of hunters. | ||
| He thinks, oh, I have this tag. | ||
| I've waited a long time to get it. | ||
| It's a very unique tag, of course, is the way you explained it. | ||
| And... | ||
| I can eat this antelope just the same as I would any other one, but to exercise some mercy around this antelope that's clearly suffering, clearly injured, who knows how it got injured, limping up to a waterhole, he's having this ethical pondering in his head, like, should I dispatch this thing and it's suffering, fill my tag this way. | ||
| Because with a tag in that nature, if you have a tag, you can then choose to do anything you want with it in legal bounds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You didn't wound this animal, so you could let that animal pass and choose a larger, more mature, more impressive animal. | ||
| And you can let nature take its course, whether predation or not in the case of this one, but winter kill or something may take that animal. | ||
| Or you can end its quote-unquote suffering. | ||
| You don't know. | ||
| We can't talk to the animal and ask it. | ||
| It's opinion. | ||
| But you can end what looks like it's suffering and fill your tag in that way. | ||
| That's not the way normal hunts play out, but a lot of hunters are put in that ethical situation. | ||
| It's pretty rare, but it can happen. | ||
| It can happen. | ||
| It's never happened to me, but we did. | ||
| What was your answer? | ||
| So his answer was to shoot that antelope. | ||
| I agree with that. | ||
| You know why? | ||
| Because also, here's another possibility. | ||
| No antelopes come by. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So if no antelopes come by, just by fate, you don't get an animal. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So you spend seven days out there in the wilderness and you come home empty-handed. | ||
| You don't get to eat an antelope. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or you're presented with this opportunity to be merciful, to take this animal out that's injured, and you get to keep an antelope. | ||
| And although it's not the antelope that you dreamed of, but it's still healthy meat. | ||
| Still, yes. | ||
| And you get to feel good the fact that you really did, you put an animal out of its misery. | ||
| And we all, like mercy is a virtue, right? | ||
| It's a virtue we all would like to be able, and I said this, and Randy kind of, we talked through it, but I said that this is a unique situation to a hunter. | ||
| If you're a hiker and you come across an animal wounded in this way or injured in this way, there's very little you can do. | ||
| But this is unique to the hunter's responsibility to look at this animal and make this decision. | ||
| Here's another argument. | ||
| Another argument is you really should do nothing because those are the animals that are designated to be taken out by the predators and you want to keep the predator population healthy. | ||
| That was more my answer, Randy's answer. | ||
| We went back and forth, of course. | ||
| I see both sides. | ||
| I see both sides, too. | ||
| And I think that's one of those situations where, as a hunter... | ||
| I'll go back. | ||
| There's another podcast I did with a guy named Dushan Smetana. | ||
| That's his real name? | ||
| That's his real name. | ||
| He's fantastic. | ||
| Dushan Smetana? | ||
| Dushan Smetana. | ||
| He's from Czechoslovakia. | ||
| He's an outdoor photographer and he's a dope individual and a wonderful human being. | ||
| He better be with that name. | ||
| He lives up to that name. | ||
| Sporty name. | ||
| He'd like sip eyes fire. | ||
| Like let me say, sip eyes fire. | ||
| Does he wear handmade boots? | ||
| Of course he does, Joe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Get the fuck out of here. | ||
| What do you think he's wearing? | ||
| He seems like he would. | ||
| He makes his own moccasins. | ||
| The most interesting man in the world. | ||
| He is very much this. | ||
| I did a podcast with him. | ||
| We sat by his fire and we drank plum brandy that he makes himself, of course. | ||
| He does? | ||
| Really? | ||
| He makes his own honey. | ||
| He has Icelandic sheep that he shears and eats. | ||
| He does a sada. | ||
| He kills a lamb every year and feeds everyone a sada. | ||
| Wonderful human being. | ||
| He grew up in Czechoslovakia. | ||
| And part of his describing his growing up is like, there's a term, and I'll butcher the pronunciation of it, but miklovik is the term that he used to describe a hunter. | ||
| It's like hunter or the one who thinks. | ||
| And the way he described the cultural significance of a hunter when he was growing up in the late 80s in Czechoslovakia was that the hunter was the judge and jury. | ||
| So there was like a reverence around hunting, a reverence around a hunter because that hunter got the privilege in his culture to be the judge and jury for what animal gets taken out of the herd. | ||
| Making that very serious decision to say this animal is wounded, this animal is too old, this animal is young enough. | ||
| You've talked about it a lot on this podcast with some other smart hunters. | ||
| I think what hunting needs to become now that it isn't is... | ||
| This exalted status in our society where we're giving somebody with a hunting tag or a hunting license, you're giving somebody the opportunity to make a decision about something's life. | ||
| Well, you say exalted status, the problem is you don't have to earn that status, right? | ||
| It's like you can just go out and do it. | ||
| And one of the things that I've found out about hunting that is, I don't know if it's necessarily surprising, but it's very difficult to express is Without personal experience is that the consequences are so different than what you would think. | ||
| It's very difficult to do. | ||
| It's very physically exhausting. | ||
| The consequences of your actions are so grave and the rewards are so much different than any other way of acquiring food. | ||
| Even fishing, which I love. | ||
| I love fishing. | ||
| I love fish. | ||
| I like to eat them. | ||
| They're delicious. | ||
| They're delicious. | ||
| I like to catch them. | ||
| They're fun. | ||
| I like catching fish. | ||
| It's not the same. | ||
| There's something that we, and I don't think this is a learned thing. | ||
| I think there's a connection to difficult to acquire mammals that goes deep in our DNA. And I think this is the reason why we, I think one of the reasons why we enjoy fishing is Is because those reward systems were put in place by people that survived by eating fish. | ||
| By all those generations of people that did catch fish, and that was how they ate that day. | ||
| That excitement lives inside of you. | ||
| And you spark that up when you get a big steelhead on the line. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's right. | |
| You hear that reel go... | ||
| Because you're being informed by people that didn't have a choice, man. | ||
| These are people that had to have that fish to live. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So even though it's recreation to you, it's a thrilling recreation. | ||
| But then the consequences aren't as grave. | ||
| There's something about a wounded deer or a wounded elk that is so horrific and a merciful killing that it's such a relief that There's something powerful about it. | ||
| Like I told you, I shot that elk that it's out there that it walked four yards. | ||
| And I'm not exaggerating. | ||
| Four yards and fell over. | ||
| It was dead like that. | ||
| And the guys who were there, they said it was quicker than any rifle shot they had ever seen an elk die. | ||
| So they usually stand up longer from that. | ||
| That's what everybody wants. | ||
| Of course they do. | ||
| Of course they do. | ||
| But if I catch a fish and I pull him out of the water and throw him on the ice and he's flopping around for a few hours, I'm just happy I got him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's different. | ||
| Well, you've had Michael Pollan on the show before. | ||
| He wrote that Omnore's Dilemma. | ||
| And in it, he just said, basically, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said, hunting is so different from the inside than it is from the outside. | ||
| It's so easy to view hunting in the lens of like, there's a dude sitting behind a deer smiling and grabbing its antlers. | ||
| There's also the problem that malnutrition in this country is almost non-existent. | ||
| Fat people are poor people in this country, which is fucked. | ||
| Like, poor people are fat, which is one of the weirder things about our society. | ||
| This has never happened in the history of human beings that the poor people were the big fat ones. | ||
| They got cell phones. | ||
| I mean, there's a lot of rich people that are fat, too. | ||
| Don't get me wrong. | ||
| But people don't have a problem being fat, right? | ||
| And this doesn't mean that there's not a lot of malnutrition. | ||
| There most certainly is. | ||
| But it's nutrition. | ||
| It's not a lack of calories. | ||
| Lack of calories was a massive problem throughout most of human history. | ||
| The lack of food. | ||
| So the access to food is so normal to us. | ||
| It's so easy. | ||
| But the unfettered access to food is what's really normal now. | ||
| That's what's changed with industrialization and coming on. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fast food. | |
| Yeah, fast food. | ||
| Fast food is fucked. | ||
| Processed food is fucked. | ||
| Yeah, even if you go back to when people, when hunting was more normal in the 1920s or the 1930s, it was really normal. | ||
| There was also no fast food. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So when you would get a roast, even if you went to a butcher and you got a roast and you brought it home and you were making roast beef and you're cooking it, or your uncle shot a deer. | ||
|
unidentified
|
When was the last time milk was delivered to your door? | |
| Yeah, right? | ||
| Not my dad. | ||
| You know, so there's a lot of different... | ||
| It was raw. | ||
| It was raw. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So there's a lot of different... | ||
| Yeah, like the removal from the actual, you know, process that hunters go through. | ||
| Actually, it might not have been raw. | ||
| Like, when did they start pasteurizing and homogenization? | ||
| Yeah, that's a Jamie thing. | ||
| That was Louis Pasteur. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Pasteur. | |
| That is who it was. | ||
| Pasteurization, right? | ||
| That's what it came from. | ||
| Yeah, pasteurized milk. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When did they start implementing that? | ||
| Like when you would get the milk on your door in those glass jars. | ||
| Didn't that milk go bad quick though? | ||
| But that's, you know, my grandparents, that's what they would describe, the milkmen. | ||
|
unidentified
|
1880s? | |
| That's when it started? | ||
| That's when it started. | ||
| I wonder when it was common. | ||
| But you think about like market hunting. | ||
| We always talk about hunting like the turn of the century being this huge moment in hunting conservation. | ||
| Market hunting really became a thing when it accelerated when refrigeration became a reality. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And accelerated when railroads could take meat from the Great American West back to the cities in the East Coast. | ||
| And so those things accelerated, that technology and those things accelerated market hunting and the depredation of things like the whitetail deer and the buffalo as we all, famously the buffalo. | ||
| I'm just trying to flavor this in the context of most people that hear these conversations don't really know what we're talking about. | ||
| You're obviously well versed in this but for a lot of folks they don't understand that what happened was after the Civil War in particular There's a lot of soldiers that weren't fighting anymore in the war, and they got jobs as hunters, and they would just go out with no rules and shoot as many animals as they wanted. | ||
| The term we call that is market hunting, and market hunting means that they're out hunting for marketing the meat or marketing the hides or marketing parts of the animal to themselves. | ||
| Sometimes just the tongue. | ||
| They would shoot buffaloes for just the tongue. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So, in that time, at the turn of the century, right? | ||
| 1880s, in the turn of the century, we had mass, mass killings of... | ||
| People just think of buffalo, really. | ||
| But, white-tailed deer, mallard duck, wild turkey. | ||
| Elk. | ||
| Elk. | ||
| Black bear. | ||
| Black bear. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| This is... | ||
| We're looking at a photograph of, like, so many fucking animals just hanging from these... | ||
| Some ducks there. | ||
| Mostly ducks. | ||
| Looks like all ducks. | ||
| I don't see anything yet, but... | ||
| There's nothing... | ||
| What are those all? | ||
| What are those? | ||
| Easter eggs. | ||
| Like bears? | ||
| Those are all ducks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So there's deer. | ||
| Those are all deer. | ||
| Market hunting deer. | ||
| But they decimated massive quantities of these wild game animals that we cherished today. | ||
| There's more white-tailed here today than when Christopher Columbus landed on this continent. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| At the time, at the turn of the century, at the height of the market hunting crisis in this country, there were enough whitetail deer that they probably would have been on the endangered species list or been close. | ||
| So the model of conservation that we then enacted, I don't want to say, I don't want to overexert this for people who have never heard of it, but if you look up, Jamie, the North American model of wildlife conservation, There was a ton of key figures in taking what America had at that point, which was basically the Wild West, where animals are dying at mass. | ||
| And with railroads and refrigeration, like we said, they're then feeding and clothing at that time the masses in the urban settings, you know, in New York and different places. | ||
| But as these centuries turned over and as you get into the teens and the 20s, guys like Teddy Roosevelt, Gifford Pinochet, John Muir, there was a bunch of figures who essentially kicked off what is America's conservation movement. | ||
| The movement to conserve not only the wildlife populations but wild lands and wild waters and significant places in this country that we needed to protect. | ||
| Because around the turn of the century, we did not have that feeling of value as a society. | ||
| There wasn't like, we have to go value that thing we've never seen because you could never see it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so they set about building a value structure for not only wildlife, but wild places. | ||
| And they also set about a way that the user would pay for this conservation. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And these are the constructs of what we now know to be the North American model of wildlife conservation. | ||
| Which, I mean, if you look at it today, it's like one of the most successful and like the seminal systems of conservation in the world. | ||
| In the world. | ||
| It wasn't really codified until the 80s. | ||
| Until guys like Dr. Valerius Geist and Shane Mahoney and folks wrote it down and said this is what it is. | ||
| But if you could pull up the tenets of the North American model, because I could list them off. | ||
| North American model of wildlife conservation, wildlife as public trust resources, elimination of markets for game. | ||
| That's why people say, hey, where can I buy some elk? | ||
| You can't. | ||
| You can't. | ||
| You can buy it from New Zealand. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You can't. | |
| So let's go wildlife. | ||
| Wildlife is a public trust. | ||
| That just basically means the states hold the wildlife in trust for the public. | ||
| These animals belong to us. | ||
| State holds them in trust and manages them in trust for us. | ||
| Now, for people that have a problem with that as an idea that we would own a living thing, the only reason for that is to protect those living things. | ||
| I understand on semantics that you would have issue with, you know, humans shouldn't own life, man. | ||
| We don't, and maybe own is the wrong word to use, bro. | ||
| Maybe own is the wrong word to use, but it's like manage and cohabitate with. | ||
| Maybe that's the better way to say it. | ||
| By being, by, look, whether we protect them or whether we decimate them, right? | ||
| We are the stewards of the land. | ||
| We are. | ||
| We are the ones, the monkeys with the guns. | ||
| We have the ability to say, here's this number of animals. | ||
| Here's this number of land. | ||
| Here's how we encroach upon that land. | ||
| Let's study that and make sure that's all good. | ||
| And then let's actively manage it as hunters and anglers to make sure the carrying capacity of this land meets the wildlife populations. | ||
| Everything is working in order. | ||
| It's the sustainable use of natural resources. | ||
| That's what hunting is. | ||
| If anybody asks you like, hey dude, what's hunting? | ||
| You say, hunting in the North American model is a sustainable use of a natural resource. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| To eat. | ||
| To eat. | ||
| Elimination of markets for game. | ||
| We covered that. | ||
| None of these animals that we're talking about, whether you're eating black bear or whether you're eating deer, you cannot buy that stuff. | ||
| If you buy it, you're going to get raised, farm-raised meat, and most of it is from New Zealand. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Allocation of wildlife by law. | ||
| Right. | ||
| There's laws, right? | ||
| There's a law to say how many animals you can kill. | ||
| Just like that fellow in Missouri that's got to watch Bambi, if you kill more than you're supposed to kill, you're a poacher now, you've broken the law. | ||
| And the law is dictated in most really good states, like Montana, by wildlife biologists, conservationists, and people that understand the population, what's a healthy population for the area, and how to maintain a correct balance. | ||
| And there's a real science to that, folks. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| You know, the science of... | ||
| When you talk to wildlife biologists about this... | ||
| I mean, we had a great podcast with Doug Duren. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And Brian... | ||
| What was Brian's last name? | ||
| Love Doug Duren. | ||
| What was... | ||
| I fucking can't remember my shitty brain. | ||
| But we were talking about CWD, chronic wasting disease, the spread of it amongst wild animals, and then just... | ||
| Richards. | ||
| Brian Richards. | ||
| Shout out to Brian Richards. | ||
| And me, pal, Doug Duren. | ||
| I love you, Doug. | ||
| You're great. | ||
| Doug's the best. | ||
| Keep fighting that CWD fight over there. | ||
| So... | ||
| What we talked about was the actual science behind this one particular issue, but you grow to appreciate, when you hear someone like him talk, you grow to appreciate the complex nature of wildlife biology and maintaining the populations of animals, keeping them healthy, and making sure that these habitats are preserved. | ||
| This is very complicated stuff. | ||
| Oh, it's impossible to really understand the scope of these, like you take Take Wyoming or Montana. | ||
| We tend to cordon off things we really care about. | ||
| Like, oh, grizzly bears and the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. | ||
| We really care about that. | ||
| That's the thing to talk about. | ||
| But really what we should be talking about is in really what most wildlife managers are looking at is this biodiversity and health of all wildlife populations. | ||
| Predator-prey balance. | ||
| Predator-prey balance. | ||
| These are things that we've set about in this model of conservation to say we're not just bi-license, bi-license. | ||
| We are using science and biology to dictate the way in which hunting is used to benefit these populations. | ||
| Put that back up, Jamie. | ||
| Jamie, you Googling porn? | ||
| Wildlife can only be killed for a legitimate purpose. | ||
| That kind of says it all. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It does, but what does that mean is where it gets weird with people. | ||
| Here's one. | ||
| Here's one where people get really crazy. | ||
| They get really crazy when you kill predators. | ||
| Yeah, even if you're going to eat them. | ||
| Like, I was looking at Adam Greentree's page, and Adam Greentree shot a cougar. | ||
| Did he send you that meat? | ||
| He has not. | ||
| He's going to be here, and we're going to cook it together. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa. | |
| We're going to cook some mountain lion back straps. | ||
| I hear tell it's delicious. | ||
| I've never had. | ||
| You? | ||
| I have. | ||
| I haven't had it that I've shot, but somebody else has prepared. | ||
| You say you hear tell, but you have had it. | ||
| I have had it, and it is delicious. | ||
| Are you being coy? | ||
| I'm not being coy at all. | ||
| Are you saying hear tell? | ||
| I hear tell. | ||
| I like to sound folksy so people understand what I'm saying. | ||
| But no, I said it's superb. | ||
| It's like lean and delicate and it's like pork almost. | ||
| It's really good. | ||
| And then people will go crazy like, why are you killing that? | ||
| Do you understand how fucked it is that you have zero problem with someone killing a deer? | ||
| But you have a problem with someone killing a mountain lion. | ||
| And this is a real issue. | ||
| You have a problem with someone killing something that will fucking for sure kill you if it catches you alone in the forest. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Fucking for sure kill your dog. | ||
| For sure kill your kids. | ||
| Definitely kill those cute little deer. | ||
| And kill a shitload of them. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| One every couple of days for its entire life. | ||
| Forever. | ||
| They're experts at it. | ||
| And for whatever reason, we get it in our head that if, and I think this comes from this whole idea of trophy hunting, that if you kill something like that, you're only killing that thing because you have a little dick and it doesn't work and you want to be a big man, so you kill this thing that's better than you and you ruin this beautiful animal. | ||
| It's the definition of a surface level. | ||
| Examination. | ||
| It is, but it isn't. | ||
| Because this is the narrative that's been pushed through all the channels. | ||
| Unless they go out and research this stuff objectively in depth, then why would you? | ||
| They can't. | ||
| They won't. | ||
| But let's be devil's advocate. | ||
| Why would you, if you're an accountant? | ||
| What do I want to look into the subtleties of predator hunting for? | ||
| Keep that up, please. | ||
| Why do I give a fuck about that? | ||
| Why do I get some assholes who want to shoot mountain lions? | ||
| What crazy... | ||
| Oh, is he going to use dogs? | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Great idea. | |
| That's not fair. | ||
| That's so unfair. | ||
| Can we talk for a minute about baiting bears? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Legitimate purpose. | ||
| Legitimate purpose, right? | ||
| Do you want to keep that down for the light? | ||
| Is that what it is? | ||
| Just pick it back up when we need it. | ||
| We'll get to it. | ||
| I've read stories, and you and I have baited when Haunting for Bears baited before. | ||
| And so, I've heard a lot of... | ||
| In hunting, they have the term fair chase, which means legitimate reason for the... | ||
| Ability for the animal to escape. | ||
| You're hunting the animal in all fairness in the pursuit. | ||
| People beat up on baited bear hunting a lot. | ||
| Probably because bears are involved. | ||
| Probably because it seems unfair to sit in a chair... | ||
| And put out some donuts or put out a dead beaver or put out whatever attracts a bear to put a smell out into the forest. | ||
| The bear smells it, it comes to eat, and you're there to kill it. | ||
| That seems like what? | ||
| Lazy? | ||
| Seems like... | ||
| That seems a lot of things. | ||
| Cheating. | ||
| Cheating. | ||
| So people would say, that's not fair chase. | ||
| That's not ethical, right? | ||
| And in some ways I agree with that in comparison to other ways of hunting, right? | ||
| But at the same time, I can tell you this. | ||
| There's no more ethical, if the idea is to kill the animal, kill the right animal, especially in bear hunting, you're trying to kill a specific boar, a male bear, that is older, past breeding, anybody who's bear hunted will tell you one of the hardest things to judge while it's living is a bear. | ||
| Whether it's a male or a female, how big it is, how old it is, they are hard to judge. | ||
| Because they're black, they slide through the forest, they all look, they don't stand, there's no markers. | ||
| Like, if the bear is standing next to a Volkswagen bug, you go, oh, okay, I know how big a bug is, I know how big the bear is. | ||
| If the bear is next to some tree that's 100 yards away, you really can't tell. | ||
| It's hard. | ||
| So spotting and stalking, what we call spotting and stalking, which is like walking around, trying to find a bear, looking at it far away and getting close enough to kill it, whether it's with a rifle or a bow. | ||
| There's a lot of problems with what seems to be a fair way to achieve the pursuit of that animal. | ||
| There's a ton of problems around that because they're hard to judge. | ||
| You can come up on a sow, a female bear that has cubs in a bush, not see the cubs, not know that it's a sow, you're far away with a rifle, you crack, you kill it, two cubs run out of the bush. | ||
| That is not what you were trying to do. | ||
| You made a mistake there. | ||
| In the scenario where you are at a bait site, this animal comes in, it's walking around very close to where you are. | ||
| You get to judge it. | ||
| You get to look between its legs, see if it has a dick or not, and then determine it's the animal you want to dispatch and dispatch it ethically because it's closer to you. | ||
| It's 20 yards. | ||
| It's stabilized. | ||
| A lot of times it hopefully doesn't know you're there rather than doing it from further away or having to stalk close to it. | ||
| So I say all this to say, like, this is complex. | ||
| What you think might be fair chase, what you think you might want to apply your own, you know, levels of fairness to, doesn't always equal the reality of pursuing that animal if the end game is to dispatch it fairly and kill it fairly. | ||
| Bears are a very unique animal. | ||
| There's so much more criticism because of teddy bears and yogi and fucking Coca-Cola commercials. | ||
| We have this idea of what a bear is. | ||
| And it's also... | ||
| The thing is... | ||
| And this is hard for people to accept... | ||
| Those old boars that we're trying to kill, if you kill them, it's better for the whole population of bears because they eat bears. | ||
| Now, this is where it gets really fucked up. | ||
| My friend Jonathan, who is... | ||
| You met John and Jen. | ||
| Of course, we were up there with them. | ||
| Jonathan, their son, saw one of the bears kill and start consuming a cub. | ||
| The female scared the bear off and then ate her own kid. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You listen to my podcast, I got a guy named Cole Kramer who I've hunted on Kodiak Island with. | ||
| He's seen male bears chase down sows, run them into a cave, rip, I mean he's watched them rip cubs and rip them in half and eat them and spit them out. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, and once you've seen that, you're, you know, no matter how many bear cartoons we show, no matter how many times a bear has suspenders on and is talking to us, it doesn't change, no matter how many times we name a bear, it doesn't change the bareness of the animal. | ||
| It doesn't change its prime. | ||
| It's a different animal. | ||
| It's a different kind of animal. | ||
| So there's nothing we can do to change bear being a bear. | ||
| I don't think there's any evidence that they don't eat their own kids either. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I don't think there is, right? | ||
| I'm sure somebody way more educated than me can tell you exactly what's happening there, but we know, you and I both know, that they're killing those two, they're killing as many cubs as they can to get the sow to come back and heat. | ||
| They're doing that and they're also doing it for food. | ||
| Food as well. | ||
| They eat them and they also try to bring the sow back into estrus. | ||
| You've talked about this before. | ||
| Hunters are in a specific, are in a really interesting position to have seen, to see these things and be intimate with these animals. | ||
| Which is, if you just explain what you explain to most people, they would just snap their head back like, what? | ||
| They're cannibals? | ||
| 100% of them are cannibals. | ||
| Yeah, even the ones that wear suspenders. | ||
| I think what non-hunters want from hunters is to, one, say, listen, this is a complex thing that we're doing, right? | ||
| We're going into a wild place and removing from it something we didn't put there. | ||
| Fuck, that's serious. | ||
| We shouldn't be nonchalant about that. | ||
| We shouldn't celebrate it in ways that make it seem irreverent. | ||
| Right. | ||
| We should understand it's serious and take that action seriously. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| We should be... | ||
| Again, that guy Dushan, he was explaining in Czechoslovakia, to go hunting, you had to go take a class and learn flora and fauna and learn how many pheasant eggs were in a nest. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then once you became a hunter, in the terms that they describe it, then you had to... | ||
| It was the amount of work you put into the forest that denoted what you could then hunt. | ||
| So if you went to cut down this many trees, you could go hunt a deer. | ||
| If you only... | ||
| Did one certain thing you could hunt a rabbit. | ||
| Like they had this... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He describes it as this like interaction with... | ||
| So that was their conservation model. | ||
| That was their model of conservation. | ||
| It was very much like accountability. | ||
| And so I think what most non-hunters want from hunters. | ||
| Because for me, I don't think about anti-hunters as much as I think about somebody who just is smart, thoughtful, has never been... | ||
| You were this way at some point. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| You're like a person who really thought hard about what you were eating and wanted to explore... | ||
| What is happening here? | ||
| And is there alternative ways? | ||
| So I think what non-hunters want from hunters is for us to say, listen, we get it's complex, we get it's a serious thing, and we're doing our best to unpack the moral and ethical entanglements in what we do. | ||
| And it's not easy. | ||
| I mean, we flush pheasants when we can shoot them on the ground, And that's the way we do it. | ||
| We call that fair chase. | ||
| But we don't like when an animal comes close enough to us and eats the corn and we can shoot it. | ||
| We don't like that either. | ||
| So these things are just entangled. | ||
| It's a hard activity to reckon with. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, the baiting part of it is, it's absolutely not as good. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I'm not saying I'm out there baiting every animal. | ||
| No, of course. | ||
| But I'm saying I can just see, as like somebody that likes the nuance of this and likes to explore this and likes to ask why. | ||
| It's like, why? | ||
| Why is it that that's the case? | ||
| Why is it that we look down on people that bait animals and Or use dogs. | ||
| Or use dogs. | ||
| It's the same reason. | ||
| They do it for the exact same reason. | ||
| So they get a close up ethical shot on a difficult to pursue animal. | ||
| Yeah, and it always goes back to the reasons we do what we do. | ||
| But again, I would hope that everybody listening to this, lots of people do that don't hunt, that they would ask themselves, what do I expect from hunters? | ||
| What is the thing that I expect you to do to earn? | ||
| Because I very much feel as a hunter, I need to earn the respect of the non-hunter. | ||
| I have a duty to my hunting community to actively earn the respect of every non-hunter I run into. | ||
| I feel like I gotta do it. | ||
| And maybe I'm just making it harder for myself. | ||
| But I feel like there's... | ||
| It's an almost impossible task. | ||
| Yeah, but you've probably done it. | ||
| I've done it on a one-to-one level. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I definitely have flipped people. | ||
| It's much easier when they eat meat. | ||
| When they eat meat, it makes sense. | ||
| But then they'll still have a problem with the bear thing, and the bear thing is one you've got to sit them down with. | ||
| I don't prefer to hunt bears. | ||
| I don't, in any way. | ||
| I get weirded out about trichinosis. | ||
| The meat is not as good to me. | ||
| It's It's good. | ||
| It tastes great. | ||
| You have a nice roast or bear stir fry or something. | ||
| It is delicious. | ||
| It's not like you spit it out, but it's not also like comparative to elk. | ||
| It's like, okay. | ||
| Yeah, you can't even have it medium rare, which is the best way to eat meat. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| So it's not the same to me. | ||
| But if I lived like in Alberta, where John and Jen live, I would realize that it's imperative. | ||
| You have to do it. | ||
| And if you do like to eat elk, and if you do like to eat deer, and if you do like to eat moose, it's really your responsibility to hunt bear. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because they kill 50% of all the moose calves, the elk calves, and the deer fawns. | ||
| 50% get killed by black bear. | ||
| Now, here's the other thing you could say. | ||
| Well, that's because nature has a balance. | ||
| And the reason why they're there is so those fucking deer don't look like those kangaroos in that park. | ||
| And that's true, too. | ||
| That's true, too. | ||
| They're right. | ||
| And I think it's our job to not have any sort of... | ||
| Bias when it comes to our examination of this information, whether it's flattering or not. | ||
| We have to be able to look at this objectively. | ||
| Yeah, you've got to be pragmatic. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You have to. | ||
| And you have to be honest, and I think you have to address the complexity. | ||
| You have to realize that this is very complex. | ||
| But guess what, fuckface? | ||
| If you wear leather shoes, you've got leather clothes, you've got a leather interior in your car, you're eating cheeseburgers, you should probably shut the fuck up. | ||
| We're humans. | ||
| We're consumption engines. | ||
| We breathe in, we breathe out, we consume the world around us. | ||
| That's the way it works. | ||
| As you always say, life eats life. | ||
| But the reality of the situation for me is I've tried to, not stray away from, but try to add on to the pragmatic arguments for hunting. | ||
| To try to examine the emotional issues we have around caring for the single animal over caring for the entire species of that animal, or in any case, subspecies of that animal. | ||
| That, to me, is something I've tried to add on. | ||
| Let's first start with pragmatic arguments. | ||
| You eat meat. | ||
| You're fucking killing things. | ||
| Why aren't you thinking as hard as I'm thinking about this? | ||
| I really would love to build a bridge with people to say, I care. | ||
| Let's say you're an anti-hunter. | ||
| And you love animals. | ||
| You're a vegan. | ||
| You've had a lot of conversation around vegans. | ||
| I'm a vegan. | ||
| I really care about animals. | ||
| They're sentient beings. | ||
| They all deserve life. | ||
| Put that person in front of me. | ||
| And then I'll stand right beside them and be like, I fucking agree with you. | ||
| I agree that all animals are sentient beings. | ||
| I agree that they all deserve life. | ||
| And then I go to preserve that life for that animal. | ||
| That's what I go to do. | ||
| We start, me and that anti-hunter, I'm a hunter, start at the same point. | ||
| And over the years... | ||
| Sort of. | ||
| Sort of. | ||
| At its core, though. | ||
| You want to eat those animals. | ||
| I do. | ||
| So that eliminates you from their side. | ||
| But that's... | ||
| Instantly. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Because you're a diet. | ||
| But... | ||
| You're an animal-consuming machine. | ||
| This person's an animal-consuming machine, they're just not admitting it. | ||
| They just don't understand that they're an animal-consuming machine because they don't organically garden. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| If they organically garden and eat everything that they grow themselves... | ||
| Even then, it's hard to detach yourself from your consumption of the world. | ||
| Yeah, and then, like, what's in your compost, bro? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| If it makes it easier for you, let's just leave the vegan out of the conversation and say the non-hunter. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's like, I don't kill animals myself, but I care about them. | ||
| I'm like, I care about them and I kill them. | ||
| We're at the same, like if you remove the second part of the sentence, the first part is I care about them. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| We both care about animals. | ||
| We're standing at one point. | ||
| And over time, whether it's mass media or just the way hunting has been marketed and the poor PR agent that we've had, we've kind of walked away from each other. | ||
| We both care about animals and we've kind of walked away from each other. | ||
| And over time, we've been unwilling to turn around and face each other and be like, remember when we started out thinking we all value these animals? | ||
| We value their lives. | ||
| We all care about them. | ||
| Hunting is just a version, our version, and it's worked. | ||
| Given that model of conservation we were talking about, it's worked. | ||
| For the white-tailed deer and the mallard duck, it's worked. | ||
| There's more than ever. | ||
| Um, I'm just doing it a different way than you've chosen to do it. | ||
| I'm doing it in a more proactive way than you've chosen, you know, to think about it. | ||
| And so, I would, if a vegan came up to me, I'd be like, listen man, we have more similarities, in my opinion, than we do differences. | ||
| We've just chosen the difference, the one big fat thing that's different. | ||
| The difference, though. | ||
| It's the most important difference. | ||
| You want to kill animals and eat them. | ||
| They don't think you should be allowed to. | ||
| They don't think it's right. | ||
| They don't think it's moral. | ||
| They don't think it's ethical. | ||
| They just think everything is wrong with what you're doing with your diet. | ||
| But we both care about animals. | ||
| That is a fucked up way to look at it. | ||
| I care about people, too. | ||
| I just like to eat them. | ||
| People are great. | ||
| I'm going to be president, but I'm going to eat five people a week. | ||
| But we've got a lot of people. | ||
| Imagine if you run for president and say, I really love people, but I like to eat them. | ||
| They would say, well, those are people. | ||
| Don't eat them. | ||
| That's what vegans would tell you about animals. | ||
| I would say, I'm telling you that by taking the lives of these few animals, I'm working on the full breath of this animal. | ||
| They would tell you, if you really cared, you'd just donate the money. | ||
| You'd just donate the money to conservation. | ||
| Fuck the Pittman-Robertson Act. | ||
| Just... | ||
| I'm still feeding my family. | ||
| I'm still making myself a better person. | ||
| I'm still enriching my fucking life. | ||
| So don't tell me I don't have the right to do that because you think animals are sentient. | ||
| You're still killing animals by driving on roads and eating corn and doing the things you're doing. | ||
| Right, but they're not directly killing them by their food choices. | ||
| Well, they don't know they are. | ||
| So, like, proxy killing is better than actual killing? | ||
| Well, consciously, right? | ||
| Okay, actual consciously killing or buying something that's actually consciously killed is different than if you buy – look, if you buy soy, if you eat tofu, there is a fact. | ||
| And that fact is there has to be a lot of animal displacement in order to make that amount of field available to grow soy in. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or to grow soybeans in. | ||
| It's just a fact and then when you talk to anybody that's ever seen what happens when a crop gets hit by a combine and then the vultures start flying overhead There's a reason because there's a bunch of little fucking squirrels and rabbits and all sorts of shit that just got ground up and anything else that gets stuck Yeah. | ||
| In that field as those gigantic machines come whirring by. | ||
| And that's how, when you're talking about large-scale agriculture, that's how things are harvested. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| They're not plucked one by one. | ||
| Now, if you're one of those people that has an organic garden and you pluck one by one, you take your rotten apple cores and your fucking orange peels and you throw it all in a compost pile with some dead leaves and you use that as fertilizer, You're going to run out of nitrogen because you need fish, bitch. | ||
| Oh, shit. | ||
| I like how you switch from devil's advocate to like, you're on my side now. | ||
| We're in there, baby. | ||
| No, folks, guess what? | ||
| When you're buying fertilizer, it's dead fish. | ||
| Look, there's a fucking unusual cycle. | ||
| It's really weird, but the cycle is that dead animals actually fuel the plants that you consume. | ||
| So if you're a person that is, you know, even if you're eating wild plants, right, you want to eat some wild plants, I guarantee you some dead fucking squirrels and rats and pigeons and anything else went to fertilize that shit. | ||
| To fertilize that shit, yeah. | ||
| I mean, they've proven that there's salmon DNA sometimes in plants, right? | ||
| Because those plants have actually used salmon for a fertilizer. | ||
| People have used those dead fish, and that shit gets into the plants themselves. | ||
| It's all very strange, man. | ||
| There's no way out, man. | ||
| There's no way out of this. | ||
| But, in their eyes, even if there's no way out, it's the path of least pain and suffering. | ||
| And I would tell those folks, I respect the shit out of that. | ||
| And I'm trying to do... | ||
| I'm trying to take... | ||
| My own, this into my own hands, and actively go and do the thing that I know to be enriching to my life, to make me a better person, to make me a more skilled person, to give me more perspective on the world. | ||
| But at the end of the day, the byproducts of all that activity is a healthier ecosystem and more wildlife, because that's proven via the model we've said, and I feed my family with that. | ||
| And I'm just trying to do what you're doing in a more tangible way. | ||
| You're hands-off, I'm hands-on. | ||
| Is the way that I would say that. | ||
| And I respect the hands-off. | ||
| I respect, like, I'm cognizant of what's happening here and I'm trying to make it better. | ||
| I respect that. | ||
| I feel what you're saying and I see what you're trying to do. | ||
| But if I'm thinking through the eyes of a vegan, you can go fuck yourself. | ||
| I'm being the nice guy and you're being the dick. | ||
| Well, that's like vegans. | ||
| A lot of them are dicks. | ||
| Why can't I give a fuck myself? | ||
| Because you're killing and eating animals. | ||
| You're killing animals. | ||
| You fucking asshole. | ||
| You think you got a free pass? | ||
| Just kill animals anytime you want. | ||
| But you don't. | ||
| Some of them... | ||
| I like this devil's advocate side of you, Joe. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Did you see Moby? | ||
| You ever look at Moby's page? | ||
| Never had. | ||
| Moby has a wonderful Instagram page. | ||
| Never looked at Moby. | ||
| But he had something that was so preposterous the other day. | ||
| And I read the comments under it. | ||
| I was like, this is so hilarious. | ||
| It's about eggs. | ||
| And this is what it says. | ||
| I mean, first of all, folks, you come up talking to a person who has chickens. | ||
| Eggs are like the most karma-free thing. | ||
| It says, eggs cannot legally be labeled as healthy, nutritious, or safe to eat. | ||
| First of all. | ||
| This is true because eggs are full of cholesterol and saturated fat. | ||
| And because every year over 100,000 people in the U.S. contract salmonella from eggs, they cannot legally be advertised as healthy or safe or nutritious. | ||
| Okay, first of all, that's not true. | ||
| Okay, I don't know why you posted that Moby and you didn't look into it. | ||
| Is there something called at animal equality? | ||
| First of all, let's just Google how many people get salmonella from eggs every year. | ||
| Because if it was 100,000, the fucking egg market would collapse so goddamn fast. | ||
| So let's dismantle Moby's. | ||
| Please go ahead, do that. | ||
| Just dismantle this preposterous idea that 100,000 people get salmonella. | ||
| Okay, here we go. | ||
| Even with safety steps in place, it is estimated that about 1 in 20,000 or 1 in 10,000 eggs are contaminated with salmonella. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow, that's a lot. | |
| Is Moby right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| What did he say? | ||
| 100,000 people get it? | ||
| Right. | ||
| But see if you could find how many people in the U.S. contract salmonella. | ||
| Because if they find out that there's salmonella in eggs, are they finding out that's from uncooked eggs? | ||
| Every year, about a million people get salmonella infected from foods that have been contaminated by one of the many kinds of salmonella. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is he right? | |
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| Okay, let's see if it's 100,000 people from eggs. | ||
| How many people per year get salmonella from eggs? | ||
| What does it say? | ||
| Salmonella in the United States. | ||
| 142,000 people in the United States are infected each year with salmonella. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| Hold on. | ||
| That says from chicken eggs. | ||
| Wait a minute. | ||
| 142,000 people in the United States are infected each year with salmonella from chicken eggs, and about 30 die. | ||
| Dude, not only is Moby right, but he's off by 42,000. | ||
| Now you're going to be way more of a devil's advocate than you were before. | ||
| I'm going to hit you hard with this devil's advocate. | ||
| Let's go. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hold on. | |
| What'd you do, Jim? | ||
| I don't have any egg-related arguments. | ||
| I don't have any egg-related arguments. | ||
| Salmonella is specifically from chicken eggs. | ||
| Salmonellosis. | ||
| That's what it is when you get it. | ||
| So we found that this is true? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Not only is it true, it's from 2010. Maybe it's different in 2018. 142,000 people in the United States are infected each year with salmonella enteritis from chicken eggs and about 30 die. | ||
| So we lost 30 pussies. | ||
| In 2010, an analysis of death certificate... | ||
| Joking. | ||
|
unidentified
|
My dad died for... | |
| I was joking. | ||
| It's just a joke. | ||
| It's a comedy podcast. | ||
| We're in the comedy section of iTunes. | ||
| Identified 1,316 salmonella-related deaths from 1990 to 2006. Whoa. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| Now... | ||
| Thanks, Moby. | ||
| But this is a problem. | ||
| These fucking dummies are eating them raw. | ||
| This is what I want you to Google. | ||
| How nutritious are eggs? | ||
| How about Google this? | ||
| There's a lot of ways to look at this situation. | ||
| I've been eating eggs my whole fucking life. | ||
| I've never gotten salmonella. | ||
| You look pretty good. | ||
| You're doing fine. | ||
| By the way, if you eat chicken raw, you get salmonella too, stupid. | ||
| You're not supposed to eat it raw. | ||
| You're supposed to cook it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| One egg has only 75 calories with 7 grams of high-quality protein, 5 grams of fat, and 1.6 grams of saturated fat, along with iron, vitamins, minerals, and carotenoids. | ||
| The egg is a powerhouse of disease-fighting nutrients like lutein and zeaxithin. | ||
| Okay, Moby, so shut the fuck up. | ||
| They're super, super nutritious for you. | ||
| Just occasionally... | ||
| Back off, Moby. | ||
| Somebody gets salmonella. | ||
| How about just cook your fucking food, bro? | ||
| But here's where it gets really dark. | ||
| Why don't you Google this? | ||
| How many people die every year from E. coli from vegetables? | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Because of a shitload. | ||
| Anti-corn. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's actually from farmed animals. | |
| It's actually from agriculture. | ||
| A runoff from the shit. | ||
| Let's Google how much methane comes from. | ||
| How much methane comes from vegans broccoli farts? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's deadly. | |
| I like how... | ||
| Let's go back to this, like, where you play the vegan and I play... | ||
| Dude, it's fun. | ||
| Dude, Moby's so right. | ||
| He's not just right. | ||
| He's more than 40,000... | ||
| Moby, please, just... | ||
| Six degrees of Moby. | ||
| Edit your post with the correct number. | ||
| You're right about, like, eggs are dangerous, bro. | ||
| Don't eat them raw. | ||
| You could die. | ||
| Yeah, don't eat them raw, stupid. | ||
| Okay, here it goes. | ||
| CDC estimates 265,000 infections occur each year in the United States of E. coli. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| 36% are caused by E. coli 0157.87. | ||
| Dude, it's almost all from animal agriculture. | ||
| It's almost all from shit, from shit water. | ||
| Types of E. coli that can cause illness can be transmitted through contaminated water or food through contract with animals or people. | ||
| Yeah, but when they say contaminated water, what they really mean is that water is contaminated with shit from animal agriculture. | ||
| I think almost entirely. | ||
| What is... | ||
| What is this timeline here? | ||
| The source of E. coli. | ||
| Google this. | ||
| Most prominent source of E. coli in vegetables. | ||
| I would guarantee you it's animal agriculture. | ||
| I mean, if you see those gigantic factory farms and the runoff and... | ||
| Most prominent source of E. coli and vegetables. | ||
| Is that what you said? | ||
| You're better at this than me. | ||
| Just so you can figure it out. | ||
| I'm just like, get it, Joe. | ||
| You find it. | ||
| You find the evidence. | ||
| I'm trying to be... | ||
| I'm trying to be... | ||
| Fucking Moby. | ||
| Yeah, I'm trying to be vegan. | ||
| I'm not arguing for the vegans. | ||
| I'm vegan. | ||
| I like this. | ||
| I like this. | ||
| It's not hard to do. | ||
| No, it's not hard to do. | ||
| It's a respectable position, man. | ||
| It just is. | ||
| What does it say? | ||
| It's all three, actually. | ||
| What does it say? | ||
| The thing that popped up is the most common way to acquire E. coli infection is by eating contaminated. | ||
| Ground beef, unpasteurized milk, fresh produce. | ||
| And that fresh produce means not cooked. | ||
| So if you get broccoli or... | ||
| Yeah, you have like a... | ||
| Yeah, just spinach. | ||
| You're supposed to cook spinach. | ||
| Celery. | ||
| That's the problem with romaine lettuce, right? | ||
| Because romaine is... | ||
| Nobody ever cooks that stupid fucking shitty lettuce. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| If the world had no romaine lettuce, do you think you'd be okay? | ||
| I think I'd be fine, bitch. | ||
| My dad calls it the hard lettuce. | ||
| He's like, I don't want that hard lettuce. | ||
| Give me the soft. | ||
| Give me the soft lettuce. | ||
| Iceberg is just a joke. | ||
| It's just room for meat. | ||
| I could be putting meat in my stomach instead of that shitty-ass white, clear lettuce. | ||
| Listen, I would say to you, Joe Rogan, vegan, you're a very handsome man. | ||
| You seem healthy. | ||
| Healthy as fuck. | ||
| You have an organic garden in your backyard? | ||
| No. | ||
| I got some shit I grow. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| A little bit. | ||
| A little bit? | ||
| Not a lot. | ||
| I get a lot of them from the store, to be honest with you. | ||
| Me too. | ||
| Me too. | ||
| But I don't buy meat from the store. | ||
| Like, I get to opt out of Factory Farm because I have a lot of wild game stuff in my house. | ||
| I have definitely still bought meat from the store. | ||
| I buy way less of it, and I eat meat almost every day. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I buy way less, but I'll still go to a restaurant and order steak. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I feel like this is something that people probably heard before, but it's like the feeling of eating while game eat is just different. | ||
| It's way different. | ||
| It tastes different. | ||
| It's better for you. | ||
| It feels different. | ||
| It feels different for my body. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| I mean, I have... | ||
| I remember watching this thing about Ted Nugent once. | ||
| I was like, how's that guy got so much fucking energy? | ||
| I mean, he's like 65 years old at the time. | ||
| Spirit of the wild. | ||
| Well, he's eating deer every day, all day. | ||
| I mean, is it love or hate that guy? | ||
| There's a lot of power to his diet. | ||
| He's a good guy. | ||
| You get to know him. | ||
| He really is. | ||
| People are saying to me, like, how could you have Ted Nugent on the podcast? | ||
| I love him. | ||
| How about that? | ||
| Does he say things that I agree with 100% of the time? | ||
| No. | ||
| If you've ever sat and talked to Uncle Ted, which, you know, shit, I worked at the NRA for a while. | ||
| I used to get assigned to the Ted Nugent talk. | ||
| That he gave at the NRA annual meetings. | ||
| I was a writer for the NRA and worked for the digital websites. | ||
| And I would get assigned to the Ted Nugent seminar at the NRA annual meetings. | ||
| I would go and sit in the back with Ted and he would go, brother. | ||
| Yeah, he gets crazy. | ||
| He's not fake. | ||
| He ain't faking that. | ||
| That ain't something he just puts on for the cameras. | ||
| That's Ted. | ||
| But he is smart, man. | ||
| As you found out on that podcast, which I thought was amazing, that dude... | ||
| As sharp as they come. | ||
| You know what also? | ||
| He's reasonable and open to new information. | ||
| You don't want to think I turned him on to? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| I turned him on to marijuana. | ||
| Yeah, you did. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| First of all, he's using CBD on a regular basis. | ||
| In fact, if you go to Ted Nugent Official, go to his fucking Instagram. | ||
| He was advertising Jombo CBD that I hooked him up with. | ||
| Yeah, man. | ||
| He was having some serious knee pains. | ||
| He's had a... | ||
| He was telling me about his days of rock and roll, jumping off of amplifiers, and he destroyed his meniscus. | ||
| His knees are shot. | ||
| I ran into him three years ago at a concert and went backstage, and we were chatting, and he had huge ice packs on each one of his knees, and he had just had surgery on one. | ||
| I don't know what the surgery was for, but he was clearly in pain, and he just looked run down. | ||
| But then we went out in the crowd, he came on stage, and he looked like a 25-year-old rock guy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He's a hard-working man. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, when the time comes and the lights are on... | ||
| That guy goes after it. | ||
| And people are like, so you support the racist things you said? | ||
| No, unfortunate. | ||
| Whatever the fuck he said that you didn't like, that either he shouldn't have said, or maybe you didn't understand what he meant, or maybe it's out of context. | ||
| Anything that hurts anybody's feeling, unfortunate, and I don't support it. | ||
| But guess what? | ||
| We all have unfortunate things about us. | ||
| That's just a fact of being a fucking human being. | ||
| And one of the parts... | ||
| One of the things that we're doing when we're screaming out and calling out someone and we want someone deplatformed and dismissed and never to be heard from again, part of us are worried that that's going to happen to us. | ||
| We're worried that we would ever exhibit that sort of reprehensible behavior or language, and we want to put a stop to it in ourselves, in other people. | ||
| We want to eliminate it from our society and culture. | ||
| We want to do it harshly and ruthlessly, and we're terrified that it's going to be done to us. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And there's a lot of people that make some fucking really terrible mistakes. | ||
| And I think there's got to be some sort of a path to redemption. | ||
| I really believe that. | ||
| Always. | ||
| Because I meet in hunting. | ||
| I certainly don't meet the caliber of folks that you have in this room. | ||
| But I meet these people in hunting and I run around in these circles. | ||
| And people are saying, this person thinks this. | ||
| And have you seen that Instagram post? | ||
| I don't believe in that. | ||
| And knocking people down. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I just think, I know that person. | ||
| That's a good person. | ||
| And maybe he or she is not depicting this in the way that you like it in this instance. | ||
| But that's a good, well-meaning person. | ||
| People are more than capable of mistakes, and we should be more than capable of allowing them redemption and forgiveness. | ||
| Because we should want the same thing. | ||
| thing for us. | ||
| Should I be on this podcast right now and have said something in the last couple hours that was terrible and like I would hope the folks that know me would know that like this is a mistake and as long as I own up to the mistake and say hey it was in the moment I apologize. | ||
| You had a little bit A little bit of right brain. | ||
| My brain was going. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I apologize for that thing. | ||
| And it's not... | ||
| That doesn't define me because that's a very scary and slippery slope to get down. | ||
| It's like one moment in your life can't define you. | ||
| It's also something that's really... | ||
| It seems way more recent. | ||
| This idea that you want someone to never be heard from again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| They fucked up and they should never be heard from again. | ||
| And also, I think, and this is my own bias, I think it's a product of a shitty way of distributing information that has existed all of our lives until recently. | ||
| And I feel like the long-form conversation... | ||
| It's the only way to get to know somebody. | ||
| And when I sat down with Ted, after the three hours of talking, I'm like, I like this guy. | ||
| I like him. | ||
| Well, like you always say, I love when I get off of a good podcast, when there's an episode of The Hunting Collective and I sit down with somebody and they're like, oh my god, this person is what they just brought to my life in two hours. | ||
| I'm so fucking happy to have had that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's like a high you get. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's a legitimate high because you say this all the time. | ||
| You don't get to sit down in your life and take two hours or three hours with somebody and just talk and exchange ideas and disagree and agree. | ||
| No distractions. | ||
| No distractions. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And what that gives you, and if folks haven't done that, that gives you something almost every time. | ||
| It's the only way you get to know people. | ||
| I don't mean just through podcasts. | ||
| I mean in your life. | ||
| If you don't have a podcast, sit down with someone and talk to them for several hours. | ||
| How often do you do that with your wife? | ||
| Nah, man. | ||
| It's fucking rare. | ||
| I have made a vested interest in long-form conversation, not just on the podcast, but in my life really over the last five or six years. | ||
| Yeah, who better than you to say that and be like, this has informed the way that I think, the way that it's impacted our society and our culture, this show? | ||
| It's changed the way I feel about people. | ||
| It's changed the way I feel about what communication is. | ||
| I have convenient perceptions of people. | ||
| I think we all do. | ||
| I conveniently go, oh, that guy's cool, oh, that guy's not, or this girl's an asshole, or whatever my convenient perceptions of people. | ||
| I find that a lot of them are based on these... | ||
| Brief interactions. | ||
| They're based on small amounts of information that's been distributed over long periods of time. | ||
| And maybe one time I caught someone when they were hammered and they were being an asshole. | ||
| Or maybe I was hammered and I was annoyed by them. | ||
| Or who knows what it was? | ||
| But to really understand who a person is, You have to sit down with them, I think, and just talk to them. | ||
| And you have to do it for a long time. | ||
| And it takes a long time. | ||
| And you also observe their actions and observe them when they're tested and observe them under duress. | ||
| And there's no way to get out of a long-form conversation. | ||
| You can't say, like, hey, I've got to go now. | ||
| I'm out of my depth. | ||
| All the things I said about myself, how great I was before this, now you're opening up this chasm where I don't know the things I said I knew. | ||
| But I could, for a 30-second or one-minute TV spot, I could train, I could read the lines, and I could come off like I look like I know what I'm talking about. | ||
| There's no way to escape this freaking thing. | ||
| I just thought about something. | ||
| How fucked up would a show be if you had just a husband and wife alone in a room with no one reacting to them? | ||
| Just them sitting down at a podcast. | ||
| And then that podcast gets broadcast to the world, and the whole world gets to watch their fucked up, dysfunctional relationship and how it plays out. | ||
| All the weirdness. | ||
| You know this weirdness that you see around people and their wives sometimes? | ||
| You have a couple of cocktails, the wife will say something really shitty and walk off the bathroom. | ||
| It's like a cup that spills over. | ||
| You're just keeping all of it in the cup, and then every once in a while you can't keep it in. | ||
| You can't keep it in. | ||
| And then there's this, like, the guy does something douchey, or the girl does something cunty, or whatever the fuck it is, and then you're like, whoa! | ||
| It first starts to trickle out in this passive-aggressive way, and then eventually, if you're there long enough, it just becomes aggressive. | ||
| If you're around them long enough, and that's one of the things about alcohol, it's so beautiful how that aggression just comes out of people. | ||
| Okay, I got... | ||
| You tell me if you like this. | ||
| You tell me if you like this idea. | ||
| I had this idea the other day. | ||
| That's basically what we're doing right now. | ||
| Is that I would do a show about ethics around, like, hunting and the outdoors and things. | ||
| But it would just be called Drunk Ethics, where I would just be drinking with people and having intelligent conversations that would increasingly get... | ||
| More and more fucking weird. | ||
| More and more fucking weird and open because I'm getting... | ||
| Yeah, that's a great idea. | ||
| I'm in favor of people drinking. | ||
| I don't mind drinking. | ||
| I'm drinking right now through this whole thing. | ||
| Yeah, we are too. | ||
| Other than the fact that I had to pee, like, it's been great. | ||
| Yeah, I'm not anti-drinking. | ||
| I think there's something to be gained from the release of inhibitions. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, there's something that's, I mean, there's a reason why it has such a strong place socially. | ||
| Well, plug for RyeBrain. | ||
| I mean, I'm releasing inhibitions but also increasing brain function at the same time. | ||
| Your brain's so confused. | ||
| Hashtag, it's like, what? | ||
| What? | ||
| Hashtag what? | ||
| Hashtag who? | ||
| Hashtag right brain. | ||
| I think that would be a wicked podcast, though. | ||
| Every week you get together a couple that's been fighting, and you get them to go over the way they feel about things. | ||
| Maybe have a therapist in the room. | ||
| Fuck the therapist. | ||
| Those people ruin everything. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| People who fight should just break up. | ||
| They just duke it out until they can't take it anymore and then just go with the way of Ben Affleck and J-Lo. | ||
| Just fall. | ||
| For a short period of time, you were in love. | ||
| Let it hit the rocks. | ||
| Move on, folks. | ||
| Don't you want to have a new person in your life? | ||
| Listen, do you have any marriage advice? | ||
| I've been married for coming up on five years. | ||
| I have a two-year-old. | ||
| My wife wants to have more children. | ||
| I just bought a new house, living in a brand new house, in a new town. | ||
| You got a lot of things going on that are pressure points, right? | ||
| Living the American dream a little bit. | ||
| I'm very happy with my family. | ||
| They're wonderful people. | ||
| I love them. | ||
| But like, I want to sustain this. | ||
| I have a great thing I'd like to put my arms around and keep. | ||
| It's like, ah, this is so great. | ||
| I don't want it to go away. | ||
| Well, just that attitude alone. | ||
| Your awareness of how special it is. | ||
| You know, you are doing the thing that everybody thinks of when they think about, like, fulfillment in life. | ||
| You're raising a child. | ||
| You're having children. | ||
| You're, you know, you're engaged in this intense relationship with another human being. | ||
| We've created a person. | ||
| All those things, those are giant, man. | ||
| Those are giant. | ||
| And also, you're engaged in an activity that 50% of the people fail at. | ||
| And then they fail at it. | ||
| It fucking goes down hard, man. | ||
| It goes down hard. | ||
| It's screaming and swearing and lawyers. | ||
| Of all the levels of failure in life, there's no failure more impactful than a divorce. | ||
| I've met... | ||
| I mean, I have so many friends that have been fired from jobs. | ||
| And it's not fun. | ||
| It's not good. | ||
| But they bounce back. | ||
| Yeah, you bounce back. | ||
| I've seen guys lose who they are from divorce. | ||
| I've seen it happen. | ||
| I've talked about this too many times, but it's a true story. | ||
| I have a friend who has been divorced to a woman for 14 years. | ||
| He's been married to a new one for 12. He has a family. | ||
| He has children with this new woman. | ||
| It's over with the old one. | ||
| He still pays her every year, and they have no children. | ||
| Because he fucked her so hard she can't work. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's because it's crazy, because the laws are insane. | |
| The laws are insane. | ||
| They don't make any sense. | ||
| We're not talking about a woman who is like 80 years old and can't work anymore either. | ||
| We're talking about a completely viable human being. | ||
| Dude, it's bananas. | ||
| It is bananas. | ||
| For that to flip, like you said, back to the I do thing. | ||
| When you say I do, there's never... | ||
| I did have a buddy who, when he said I do and they turned around, she looked mad and he looked scared. | ||
| Why was she mad? | ||
| You didn't say it right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, you didn't say it. | |
| You didn't say it right. | ||
| Why do you say that? | ||
| I want to be like a movie. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And some people just don't. | ||
| They're not supposed to be together, but they think they should be with somebody. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So they find somebody and they talk that someone into doing something fucking insane. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like signing a legal contract that says you're going to be together forever and ever till death. | ||
| But see, my problem is a very lucky problem that I've got something that, at least in its early years, it seems to be the right thing. | ||
| Right? | ||
| That's a hard sell. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Love you, honey. | |
| Love you, honey. | ||
| Hope you ain't listening. | ||
| What are the odds she made it this far? | ||
| What are we, two hours and what, 30 minutes? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| She's got a two-year-old by herself at home. | ||
| She ain't listening to that. | ||
| She checked out a long time ago. | ||
| But my challenge right now is I think about life. | ||
| I'm like, I got this wonderful, beautiful thing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I'm just, the stress is that I'm going to fuck it up. | ||
| Well, that is always a stress. | ||
| And I think that's one of the reasons why a lot of marriages fail is because of this intense pressure of the relationship. | ||
| You know, like there's a finality, and I understand the need for this finality, right? | ||
| There's a need for this contract and everything locked down. | ||
| If you're a woman, you can't, like when you're raising children... | ||
| You need help, right? | ||
| You need the man to be there to help you raise it, hopefully, but you also need financial help. | ||
| It's difficult. | ||
| It makes sense that a woman would want to lock things in like that. | ||
| It makes sense. | ||
| It's also a weird cultural tradition, right? | ||
| It's this weird thing that we have this law, like we bring the law involved into relationships. | ||
| And it's very strange, like legal contracts. | ||
| And some of them are fucking preposterous, right? | ||
| Like, sometimes you see a guy who looks like Rupert Murdoch, right? | ||
| And he's got this banging wife, and she's like 30 years old, and she's got big tits. | ||
| Or how about Harvey Weinstein and his wife? | ||
| She's in it for the right reasons. | ||
| And you're like, hey, son, I see what happened here. | ||
| But he sees it, too. | ||
| He can't be, but he's not blind. | ||
| Of course! | ||
| He sees it, too. | ||
| It was his whole business. | ||
| When they say I do, they're like, well, okay. | ||
| Well, this is where we are. | ||
| But you have a disgusting troglodyte-type... | ||
| You know, just gelatinous-looking, Jabba the Hutt-looking man, and a beautiful, hot young wife, because the guy's got fucking kajillions. | ||
| That's a normal thing. | ||
| Don't put up any pictures. | ||
| Don't put up any pictures. | ||
| But those folks there were both going into that knowing, like, hey, look, this isn't a traditional pairing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Or who knows? | |
| Maybe he was really sweet with her and that's all she needs. | ||
| Maybe she's just this rare soul that if he had $5 in his pocket, she'd be super happy with him. | ||
| Could be. | ||
| Fucking doubt it. | ||
| I would doubt it as well. | ||
| Like a motherfucker. | ||
| Fucking doubt it. | ||
| It's a preposterous union in the first place. | ||
| Listen, there's some relationships that you could define as legal prostitution. | ||
| They are absolutely legal prostitution. | ||
| A woman has made a determination that she will let this sloth shoot fluid into her vagina. | ||
| On an intermittent basis, if she could be bathed in diamonds and drive a Ferrari and live in a mansion. | ||
| This is a normal part of life. | ||
| Some people would say, and I might even say, as long as they're consenting and they're both aware that's going on, then... | ||
| Well, that would be a good argument for prostitution as well, though, wouldn't it? | ||
| It's a bit of a transaction, I guess. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It's a transaction. | ||
| It is a transaction. | ||
| Yeah, I guess when you look down at it, it's right that way. | ||
| I've always said, why is it okay to give someone a massage? | ||
| You give someone a massage, but you can't even jerk them off. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Like... | |
| It's not legal. | ||
| That's weird. | ||
| The government decides who can touch your penis. | ||
| If the massage therapist said, hey, I really enjoy giving you a massage, let's go somewhere afterwards of my own free will and I'll jerk you off. | ||
| That'd be fine. | ||
| That's fine. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| You just can't do it right there. | ||
| But in the confines of the massage parlor. | ||
| Unless it's a public health issue. | ||
| Imagine if loads smelled like gunshots and you were... | ||
| You go to Massage Power, it smells like a shooting range, like, what the fuck is going on in this place? | ||
| This is a dirty massage place. | ||
| I'm out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
pew pew pew imagine if loads smell like sulfur Like, Jesus, the devil's coming out of you, boy. | |
| The devil. | ||
| Purify that man! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, there's a lot of laws that are ridiculous. | ||
| But there seems to be some sort of... | ||
| Someone here is the merit advice I'm looking for. | ||
| I got it. | ||
| Maybe it was what we were talking about earlier. | ||
| Maybe it's long form conversations. | ||
| Having long conversations with each other. | ||
| Having long respect, like respecting the fact that you can't get through some of this stuff in a very short time. | ||
| I've always said like I appreciate a nice road trip for that reason. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because you can't. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You're hanging out with each other for long periods of time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Like I'd much rather the stress of an airport with a kid and a wife is not, I'd much rather just drive it and take the time because you get this like connection. | ||
| If you can get the phones out of the way for the passengers, you just get this connection that you wouldn't get otherwise. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Doing things together that are unique, that helps. | ||
| Experiencing things together. | ||
| But also, you also have to both have the mindset that you enjoy each other's company and you want to make it work good. | ||
| Some people just don't, man. | ||
| And we've all seen that happen, right? | ||
| We've all seen relationships where the girl's just like, check, please. | ||
| And the guy's like, baby, I'm different. | ||
| But it's a 50, like you said, it's a 50-50 thing. | ||
| So, like, you have been married for quite some time, and we were talking about prior, when we were shooting our bows out there, like, there's things you've done to make it work. | ||
| Like, you like your wife, and she likes you, and it works. | ||
| And it's been working for a long time. | ||
| And, like, the percentages say that's, what'd you say, 50-50 is... | ||
| Chris Rock had a great joke about it. | ||
| He goes, 50% of the people leave. | ||
| He goes, but how many cowards just stay? | ||
| Look, relationships don't always work, but here's the thing. | ||
| You don't always know who the fuck you are. | ||
| And I'm a different person than I was five years ago. | ||
| I just am. | ||
| I hope I'm a better person. | ||
| I'm trying very hard to be a better person. | ||
| I certainly know more about myself. | ||
| I understand myself better. | ||
| This is a long, slow process. | ||
| I think we are all a work in progress. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| And not everybody engages in this work. | ||
| So you could be a person who's on this path of, you know, being present and trying to be kinder and trying to improve. | ||
| And then you have a spouse, male or female, that just shits on you. | ||
| And I've seen that too, man. | ||
| Me too. | ||
| Brutal, toxic relationships where they insult and say rude things around your friends to try to fuck with you. | ||
| And people get into these relationships where they genuinely hate each other. | ||
| But they're stuck together. | ||
| And what that does to children, too, because I told my dad, I wrote my dad this letter recently. | ||
| This is getting real deep. | ||
| Hour number three of the podcast. | ||
| We're getting real deep. | ||
| We're pro-nuance. | ||
| I sent it to my dad, but he won't listen to this book. | ||
| I wrote this letter that was like, listen man, because I had seen recently his developing relationship with my son. | ||
| It put this thought in my head that my relationship with my dad, his caring for me, the fact that he stayed with my mom and they developed this place for me to grow and nurture me and allow me to become a person in that environment. | ||
| It was a north star for me when I left that environment. | ||
| I never wondered What my path was going to be. | ||
| I always could look up and be like that bond that I developed with my family, their love for me is like the thing that I'm always, you know, I'm looking back to but also looking forward to because that's what defines me. | ||
| And regardless of what I do, I can always fall back on that, that my dad loves me, my mom loves me, I love them, and I grew up like with this strength of soul because I knew, I don't have, I have friends that came from the same place that I did, same town I did in Maryland, and That OD'd on heroin. | ||
| They lived in the same little suburbia community that I did. | ||
| They had parents that were the same age. | ||
| They went to the same high school. | ||
| They lived in the same environment. | ||
| They went down one way. | ||
| I went down another. | ||
| And I truly do feel that me going down that way is the way that my parents built this structure around me that was always about that bond and that love and the things that they provided. | ||
| That's very, very fortunate. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's very fortunate. | ||
| Me being able to later on in life see how fortunate I was to have that drove me to not fail and to not let whatever other failures creep into my life around. | ||
| Maybe I'll take drugs. | ||
| I have a lot of friends. | ||
| A place I grew up in, Maryland, there's a lot of people that succumb to drugs and alcohol and things like that. | ||
| A lot of friends die. | ||
| Yeah, Baltimore's a rough spot. | ||
| Yeah, man. | ||
| I come from a town, call it Hagerstown, Maryland. | ||
| I say, like, come from a town. | ||
| But Western Maryland is kind of, it's a corridor for Interstate 70 and Interstate 81, and there's a lot of drugs there. | ||
| And there's a lot of my friends that are either in jail or no longer around. | ||
| A lot of successful ones, too, but that happened to me. | ||
| And I was able to look at that moment and be like, I came from the same place they did. | ||
| The same environment. | ||
| The same friends. | ||
| The same activities. | ||
| We all hunted and played sports. | ||
| We hung out together. | ||
| I went one way. | ||
| They went another way. | ||
| Do you attribute that entirely to your parents? | ||
| Or is it possible that it's who you chose to hang out with as well and the activities you engaged in? | ||
| Unfortunately... | ||
| I know people that were good parents that had kids that OD'd. | ||
| Yeah, and listen, I'm not trying to generalize in any way about any one situation. | ||
| My situation was that I could always, I felt like, and I told my dad at some point in my life where I said, I went to him and I was like maybe 20 or 19 and I said, I'm going to get all A's now. | ||
| I'm done fucking around. | ||
| Because I was a C-plus student. | ||
| I was the dumbest kid in the smart class through high school. | ||
| And there was a time in my life where I realized that I had to pay back what my parents and my grandparents and my family had done for me. | ||
| Because I knew that they'd given me something that not everybody had. | ||
| And I was like, I know that I have to pay this back. | ||
| And I've got to stop messing around now and go and do something. | ||
| That's interesting because they did a great job then. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because sometimes what happens when people were raised with a giant safety net of love, they become unambitious. | ||
| They become little mama's boys. | ||
| I think I was close to that. | ||
| I was close to that a little bit. | ||
| Like, I'm going to community college and smoking a lot of weed. | ||
| But that could just be you just trying to have a good time. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| No, but there was a time in my life, there was a legitimate time in my life where I said, And my dad, I don't remember it, but my dad remembers it. | ||
| Or I just came to him like, alright, it's over now. | ||
| It's time for me to just buckle down and get it done. | ||
| Well, the difference between a child that you're taking care of and then someone who has to be on their own is 10 years. | ||
| Right? | ||
| An 8-year-old, no one expects an 8-year-old to take care of themselves. | ||
| But an 18-year-old, time to get your shit together. | ||
| That's fucking quick. | ||
| That's a hard concept. | ||
| That's quick. | ||
| It's a hard concept. | ||
| It's... | ||
| And unless you introduce that child to hard work and the rewards of hard work in their life You're probably gonna set them up for some kind of failure. | ||
| I was Extremely fortunate that I found martial arts. | ||
| Yeah, I was at my biggest struggle in my teenage years And I found something that was insanely difficult, but the highs the rewards were Like nothing I'd ever experienced in my life So I realized like, okay, to get really good at something, you have to be able to put in the kind of energy that most people are not willing to do. | ||
| And that's what separates you from them. | ||
| To find a discipline, put a massive amount of energy and focus into that discipline, and then be obsessed with it. | ||
| Then the rewards come. | ||
| If you analyze it correctly and pursue it with everything that you have, you're going to figure out how to get better as long as you don't get really fucked up along the way. | ||
| And there was a real possibility of that. | ||
| So what I realized early on, and very lucky, was that all these people that I saw around me that were engaging in all this really risky behavior, really crazy violence and drugs, what they were doing was looking for thrills. | ||
| That's what they were doing. | ||
| But they were looking for thrills in an easily accessible way. | ||
| It didn't require discipline. | ||
| It didn't require years and years of training and focus and commitment. | ||
| It didn't require that. | ||
| What I was doing was something, and I was just lucky that I found this thing. | ||
| I just didn't want to get bullied. | ||
| I didn't want to get picked on. | ||
| I was little. | ||
| I wasn't a big kid. | ||
| You were exerting some control over your life. | ||
| I was just like, I can't fucking do this. | ||
| I'm tired of being scared of people. | ||
| I'm tired of this dude giving me the fucking tough guy look, and I've got to go the other way because I'm scared. | ||
| I just didn't want to be that. | ||
| I didn't want to be that. | ||
| So that... | ||
| Carried on with me for my whole life. | ||
| Yeah, but I've seen so many people that didn't find a discipline and they just bounce around like a cork at sea forever. | ||
| Yeah, man It's one of the reasons why I push it so much I was like whatever the fuck it is that you can do that you like to do that's competitive like one of the things about competition is not just that you prove I'm the fucking man know what it is is hard and It's fucking... | ||
| Competition is one of the hardest things. | ||
| Because if someone's trying to do it and you're trying to do it, it's like, how much do you want it? | ||
| How much more do you want it than they want it? | ||
| That's right. | ||
| And that becomes this crazy fucking battle internally as well as externally. | ||
| Yeah, but you say all the time, say, pressure creates diamonds, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And in my case... | ||
| I realized that I didn't... | ||
| I realized somewhere in my life that I have the opportunity to... | ||
| There's not enough pressure, right? | ||
| I have this soft, like you said, soft thing to fall back on, which is a middle-class family. | ||
| They'll probably let me live there in their basement for as long as I want. | ||
| There's a lot of guys right now that can relate. | ||
| Yeah, but I had the opportunity to do that, but I think I just realized that Right. | ||
| or I could fall back on what I'd been given. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And I felt that what I'd been given was significant enough to my life that I owed it. | ||
| I owed it something. | ||
| I owed it to drive toward whatever happiness I could find. - Right. - And it was that, the stability of my family life And it wasn't perfect, but it was pretty good. | ||
| And rather than sink into that, I was like, I'm going to just push through that and use that as fuel. | ||
| Well, that's intelligence. | ||
| You know, I mean, you have an awareness. | ||
| You figured out what you can do and where this can go wrong. | ||
| And you recognized it and you decided to make some changes. | ||
| I'm sure it'll have ups and downs, but hunting is a thing that enriched my life, truly did. | ||
| And as much as it is problematic in the way that's presented in society, in the way that people see it when they look at it through a shallow lens... | ||
| I can say truly that it's enriched my life in ways I'll never be able to truly... | ||
| I met you through it. | ||
| I met a lot of people. | ||
| I've met a lot of good people through it. | ||
| This is what people... | ||
| Again, the problem is looking at it from the outside versus experiencing it. | ||
| The people that you're meeting, these are people that are doing something that's insanely difficult. | ||
| And it doesn't seem like it is for a lot of folks. | ||
| You look on the outside, what's so difficult? | ||
| Shooting an innocent animal... | ||
| Bow hunting, which is what you and I mostly do, is one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life. | ||
| And I've done a lot of difficult shit. | ||
| It's fucking difficult. | ||
| It's incredibly difficult. | ||
| And the people that you meet are not just disciplined, but they're in great shape. | ||
| You have to be. | ||
| Like, there's a physical exertion aspect to it that's completely ignored and misunderstood. | ||
| Or people are ignorant of it. | ||
| Not that it's ignored. | ||
| They just don't understand it. | ||
| It's almost like an athletic pursuit that sustains life. | ||
| It's very, very... | ||
| There's a reason why Cam Haynes is out there running marathons and ultramarathons. | ||
| He's probably running right now. | ||
| I mean, he's not just doing that because he enjoys fitness, and he most certainly does. | ||
| He's doing that because it helps him as a hunter. | ||
| It does. | ||
| And that, to a lot of people, they're like, wait, what are you talking about? | ||
| Like, that doesn't make any sense. | ||
| I've seen hunting. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, if you listen to this podcast and you never hunted, like, I would encourage you to go and find these people on the internet, on social medias and things, and understand that each one of them represents, in my opinion, a layer of hunting, right? | ||
| John Dudley represents, to me, I mean, he's a wonderful human being, but, like, at his core on social media, he represents the expert archer. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That's a layer of hunting that you need to have if you're going to be successful. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Cam Haines represents the physically fit hunter, and that's a layer that you need to have if you're going to be ultimately successful. | ||
| Like Remy Warren represents the ultimate predator, being able to think about it like an animal does and move like an animal does. | ||
| That's a layer that you have to have if you're going to be ultimately successful. | ||
| Steve Rinella represents the great thinker, the great theorist. | ||
| All these are layers that you have to have at some level to be a good hunter, to be the best hunter. | ||
| To be successful consistently. | ||
| You have to know so much. | ||
| And one of the things when I got into it that was interesting that Steve said to me, he said, you're going to really like this because it has so many layers to it. | ||
| It's like there's a lot of room to learn and grow. | ||
| And you never can master it. | ||
| No. | ||
| You can't. | ||
| Especially bow hunting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What are the possibilities you're going to run into the same scenario over and over and over and over again? | ||
| Never. | ||
| I mean, you get lucky a couple years in a row, but eventually you're going to run into some sort of a situation where the wind catches you or something goes wrong. | ||
| You step on a tree branch and snaps. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And it's like it teaches you accountability too because when you release an arrow, you can say whatever you want. | ||
| And I've had all these situations where an arrow has landed in places I didn't mean it to. | ||
| And it teaches you accountability. | ||
| It teaches you ultimate accountability because when you release that arrow, you can't go get it back. | ||
| And if it hits the animal in a place and wounds it and that animal suffers, it is on you. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| And there is no way to get out of it. | ||
| There's no way to get out of that feeling. | ||
| And I've had, I don't know about you, but I've had like months, months, like six months of just like, I don't want to overstate it. | ||
| It's not hyperbolic, but like just really a lot of pain around like I did that. | ||
| And it was my fault. | ||
| I got lazy. | ||
| I was presumptive. | ||
| I got too confident. | ||
| I just screwed up in the moment. | ||
| I don't know what happened, but I've sent a very sharp object into the rump of a big elk and it ran off and never to be seen again. | ||
| Well, the consequences of that one motion, the one movement that's going to release that arrow are so significant that it fucks with your head. | ||
| It does. | ||
| That's what we were talking about. | ||
| We've talked about this many times with target panic. | ||
| That's what that is. | ||
| That's the realization of the anticipation of the moment and the consequences, the understanding of the potential negative consequences, and they're overwhelming, and they haunt you. | ||
| They do. | ||
| Don't fuck this up, don't fuck this up. | ||
| And you never should think, don't fuck this up. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And to me, there's massive parallels with martial arts, but also with playing pool. | ||
| Like, if you're about to shoot a ball and you say, don't miss, don't miss, don't miss, don't miss, you're gonna fucking miss. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That white ball ain't gonna go where you want. | ||
| But also, there's no part of pool that if the ball goes where you didn't intend it to, an animal gets maimed. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| The consequences are so much higher. | ||
| So you can equate the consequences in your mind to be successful because at some level you have to, right? | ||
| It has to be an important motion for you to really care to do it right. | ||
| But there's real... | ||
| And that's why I say, like, one of the reasons why I continue to do what I do is because this thing is complex, and I see other people's confusion around it, and I appreciate their confusion, and I understand that it's hard to get. | ||
| And I desperately want to find ways to, like, to make it easier. | ||
| An analogy would be... | ||
| For pool. | ||
| Imagine if every time you played pool, you waited days and days for one shot. | ||
| And you didn't know what the shot would be, and sometimes you had to shoot it quickly. | ||
| And if you missed and didn't make the shot, an animal would scream out in agony and die a slow death, and you would be sick for months. | ||
| When you think about how difficult it is to perform under that moment, this intense pressure... | ||
| Of the one moment... | ||
| It's like nothing else. | ||
| It's stressing me out just thinking about it because it's real life, though. | ||
| I think Steve Rinello probably said it at some point, or you did, or somebody really smart did this. | ||
| It's a three-dimensional experience. | ||
| It includes riding a roller coaster is thrilling, but the third dimension isn't there because when you get off, nothing happened, really. | ||
| You got the thrill, but there was no consequence of the thrill. | ||
| Really, that's kind of the point of buying a ticket to ride on a roller coaster, getting a thrill without having to take part in anything substantial. | ||
| With hunting, there is thrills. | ||
| There's fun. | ||
| Everybody's seen videos of dudes hooping and hollering and hugging. | ||
| You and I have done it. | ||
| Around the killing of an animal. | ||
| It's not that... | ||
| Because I always ask myself some really key questions. | ||
| Like, why is killing gratifying? | ||
| Like, what's the answer to that? | ||
| Really, what's the answer to that? | ||
| And I was like, man, that's going to be hard to explain. | ||
| There's a bunch of things going on. | ||
| It's going to be hard to explain. | ||
| To someone who doesn't know what it is, one thing that's going on is you just accomplished something that's insanely hard to do and you're relieved that the animal died. | ||
| And that relief manifests itself in exuberance. | ||
| You high-five, you hug, you go, fuck yeah! | ||
| You're happy that it happened, that it died quickly. | ||
| That's a big part of it. | ||
| That is a part of it. | ||
| Yeah, and I made this post on social media yesterday around like... | ||
| Grip and grins. | ||
| Grip and grins, man. | ||
| Yeah, you're anti-grip and grin for a long time. | ||
| You gave a big sticking point. | ||
| It did. | ||
| Explain a grip and grin for the uneducated. | ||
| We were talking about... | ||
| I was talking about this, about we're going to try to write an article for TheMediator.com about it, but... | ||
| A grip and grin is there's, I mean, this goes back many, many years. | ||
| I mean, it goes back to Teddy Roosevelt. | ||
| It goes back to the turn of the century market hunters like the photos we showed earlier. | ||
| I mean, taking a photo with the thing you just killed is no new thing to us. | ||
| It's as old as photos. | ||
| As old as photos. | ||
| Grip and grin just means you're with the animal, you're gripping its antlers or gripping a part of the animal and you're smiling and you're happy that you did that. | ||
| What I think... | ||
| What I say about Gripping Grins is that it's been weaponized, right? | ||
| Everybody that's listening to this has likely seen... | ||
| The girl with the giraffe. | ||
| The girl with the giraffe. | ||
| The guy with the lion. | ||
| The other girl with the giraffe. | ||
| The guy with the baboons. | ||
| It's been weaponized. | ||
| And it's been weaponized to a point where it's the thing... | ||
| The first thing that somebody like, say, Ricky Gervais might... | ||
| He finds this thing online. | ||
| He eats meat, by the way. | ||
| He does? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| How about that? | ||
| How about that? | ||
| Have you ever had him on here? | ||
| No, but I talked to him on Opie and Anthony. | ||
| He's a nice guy. | ||
| I remember listening to that. | ||
| He says he's fine with people hunting if they eat the meat. | ||
| Yeah, and it's like... | ||
| So we've weaponized the term trophy. | ||
| We've weaponized the Scripp and Grin thing and the overall... | ||
| I know that if hunting was a business, not a lot of people would buy stock in it. | ||
| There's less people doing it. | ||
| It's less relevant to society. | ||
| The weapon that a lot of folks are using that don't like it is this photo. | ||
| The photo depicts a person smiling next to or over top of a dead animal. | ||
| And so at its face, it absolutely says, I'm happy that there's a dead animal in front of me. | ||
| It's not enough information for such a significant moment. | ||
| So what I've said around the photo is it happened for a very long time, but then social media became a deal, right? | ||
| And during the 80s and 90s, Grip and Grins were like... | ||
| I remember going to my first trade shows as a kid, and people would have flip books of Grip and Grins. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| They would get them out and be like, you see what I killed this year? | ||
| Before cell phones or whatever, they would bring them out and be like, look at that. | ||
| Look at all the things I killed. | ||
| And it was like this communication between hunters that was legit. | ||
| I know what a gripping rain is. | ||
| I'm not questioning it. | ||
| But then social media becomes prevalent. | ||
| People start posting these photos. | ||
| To everyone where they can't control the messaging anymore. | ||
| And it's one of the easiest things, one of the most oxymoronic things to go pluck from hunting and be like, don't understand this. | ||
| This looks fucked up. | ||
| Let me apply that to trophy hunting and let me damn this person for this photo. | ||
| And so... | ||
| With that lady with the goat recently. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Invasive species on an island where they have to kill it. | ||
| It's killing all the native wildlife. | ||
| Yeah, but then later on they find that there's a photo of that young lady with a bloody dildo with goat blood on it. | ||
| Did you not hear about that part? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| Yeah, we're going to have to get that on the old Google machine. | ||
| What? | ||
| Yeah, that's a tough subject for three hours in, but that happened. | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| Just pull it up. | ||
| Something's hard for me to explain. | ||
| There was like some sort of bachelorette party or something, and that young lady, the same lady that was in the Skyland, correct? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| With the goat was also photographed with a bloody dildo. | ||
| Goat blood? | ||
| I believe so. | ||
| What was she trying to say? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Maybe she's just partying. | ||
| She could have been just having a great time. | ||
| What if there's a photo with me with a bloody dildo? | ||
| You would go, figures. | ||
| That goddamn Rogan. | ||
| Look at that jambo. | ||
| What the fuck's he doing with that dildo? | ||
| He's had too much right brain. | ||
| I hope I'm right about that. | ||
| I hope I didn't just make that up. | ||
| No, but we've discussed that internally a bunch. | ||
| Jamie, hit me up, Jamie. | ||
| What's up? | ||
| It's like the fist thing. | ||
| It doesn't look like a... | ||
| It's not like a dildo like you're thinking of. | ||
| Oh, it's like a... | ||
| It's a fist dildo. | ||
| Is it a... | ||
| Which is even more... | ||
| Are you not going to show us? | ||
| Well, yeah, I can show you guys. | ||
| Keeping it to himself. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That. | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Oh, it's just... | ||
| It's a fist. | ||
| Is that for fisting? | ||
| I... This says, Hunter and Hunter blah, blah, blah, slam for photo with dead sheep bloody sex toy. | ||
| Fox News. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's Fox News. | ||
| Huh. | ||
| So that's recently. | ||
| Is this recent? | ||
| When is this? | ||
| Yeah, this is... | ||
| November 21st. | ||
| Oh, really recent. | ||
| So it's quite a few months after the initial image was published. | ||
| So this is a different animal she's with. | ||
| It looks like some... | ||
| Yeah, what she's got there looks like an ibex, and then she's got what looks like a mouflon. | ||
| Another dead animal on British soil. | ||
| She posed with a sex toy and the dead sheep. | ||
| Well, maybe there's some context to it. | ||
| I mean, maybe it was a... | ||
| I don't, like I said, I don't... | ||
| Maybe she lost a bet. | ||
| It doesn't look good, let's just say that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Maybe her husband said, listen, if you do shoot one, this is what you have to do. | ||
| Maybe there was a bet. | ||
| I don't know any of the details around, but that photo is just like the baboon one. | ||
| It just don't look good. | ||
| What are you saying, Jamie? | ||
| I'll let you read it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It says, Gearing said that the marital aide had been given as a birthday present, but said, Swiftlick, how do you say her name? | ||
| Swiftlick. | ||
| Swiftlick was rude and arrogant throughout the trip. | ||
| Who's Gearing? | ||
| I think... | ||
| Must have been her international host, maybe. | ||
| She was a British hunter. | ||
| She was on the trip with her. | ||
| Oh, she was on the trip with her. | ||
| She was one of the women on the trip. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Well, that sounds like two chicks didn't get along. | ||
| I'd like to hear her side of it. | ||
| It was a bit of fun during the party. | ||
| Marital aid. | ||
| Okay, the marital aid had been given as a birthday present. | ||
| I have no idea why I was brought out the following day on the hunt. | ||
| It was an appalling thing to do, a complete show of disrespect to the animal she has just killed. | ||
| Well, the animal doesn't know because it was dead. | ||
| And I don't... | ||
| I mean, it's weird, but I don't... | ||
| You know, I don't know if I'm horrified by it. | ||
| I'm not friends with her any longer. | ||
| In fact, she's the reason I left the hunt early because I was so against what she stood for and her moral. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I don't want to read this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I don't know. | ||
| Chicks. | ||
| Chicks, man. | ||
| Ladies, I love you. | ||
| I don't know that person. | ||
| You get cunty with each other. | ||
| I've never met that person. | ||
| I don't know them, but that happens. | ||
| This is just an example of the weaponizing of these situations where somebody's... | ||
| Bloody dildos get pulled out and everybody gets upset. | ||
| Every time. | ||
| I did not know about that, though. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's interesting. | ||
| Well, that's one... | ||
| One example, but that's what ends up happening around these images. | ||
| Now, when I posted this thing the other day, half people would say, like, don't stop doing what you're doing if you feel it's right and you feel... | ||
| Respectful as a hunter and you're telling the entire story and part of that story is to sit behind the animal and smile and signify how great you feel about it, then go for it. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| That's what you should be doing. | ||
| Don't let someone else change your behavior. | ||
| The other side of things is like every hunter has a chance to impact somebody that doesn't go hunting. | ||
| Every hunter, there's 11 million hunters, they have a chance to impact the millions and millions of folks who aren't exposed to hunting at any point in their lives. | ||
| And so, I can really see both things, but for me, it's an issue of, if I want hunting to continue in the way that it does, and I want my social media privileges to make hunting better, I would probably choose not to put that out there unless it was in the context I felt very comfortable with. | ||
| That's very fair. | ||
| That's not just fair, it's honest, and it makes sense. | ||
| But obviously, if you had those photos and you showed them to someone like me who's hunted, it wouldn't bother me at all. | ||
| Be like, oh, you got a nice deer. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Congratulations. | |
| It's all about context. | ||
| It's all like, I could slide it across the table to you or text it to you and you would say, cool, man. | ||
| Congratulations. | ||
| You and I have been on several hunts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| We know what it's like. | ||
| We... | ||
| We don't have to explain what it is. | ||
| The problem is it's like fast food for an idea. | ||
| It's a tiny little thing. | ||
| It's not real. | ||
| You're not getting the full context of where the food came from or how the animal was raised and how it was killed and turned into a burger. | ||
| You're just getting the burger real quick. | ||
| And this is like what you're getting with the photo. | ||
| You're just getting a photo. | ||
| You're not getting the full context of the experience that led up to you shooting this deer that might be like this 200-inch mule deer that's the deer of a lifetime. | ||
| You have this giant smile on your face because you can't believe you outwitted this old monarch of the forest and put an arrow in his ribcage. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| And I think that that's a totally legitimate way to express your hunting. | ||
| For me, if you were to ask me today, I would say I would probably not give anybody the chance to misrepresent my shit. | ||
| I don't put pictures like that up anymore. | ||
| You don't. | ||
| For the same reason. | ||
| But I have in the past. | ||
| But I put a lot of elk meat up. | ||
| Ooh, I put a lot up. | ||
| That's for me. | ||
| It's like, I put the meat up. | ||
| I put all the whole story up. | ||
| But if I was to say, like, I always, I said in the very beginning of the whole me not liking grip and grins conversation, I said, if someone had said, Ben, can you give that up for the betterment of hunting? | ||
| Like, could you just give that one thing up that's traditionally, it's been done for decades, where a guy kills a thing and sits in front of it. | ||
| Would you be willing to give that up if, for some way, shape, or form, even if you didn't agree with it, it made for a better hunter-to-non-hunter relationship? | ||
| I'd be like, fuck yeah, man. | ||
| I'm down for that. | ||
| And so I think that's what the conversation is now, is trying to determine, is that the best thing ever? | ||
| Or not. | ||
| I'm not sure I have the answer to that. | ||
| I think for anybody who's listened to this three-hour conversation and sort of gets an understanding of where we're coming from, they'll appreciate that there's a lot of thought involved here. | ||
| For anybody that sees that photograph of you smiling with a dead bear, they're not going to appreciate that. | ||
| It's going to be real quick, and they're going to have this... | ||
| How many people are willing to sit here and listen to this whole conversation to get an understanding, rather, of how your mind works and how you think about things? | ||
| Not nearly as many... | ||
| We'll look at a photo and go, that guy's a cunt. | ||
| And that's the Ricky Gervais tactic, right? | ||
| As much as I do enjoy Ricky's comedy, and when he looks at these things, first of all, that fucking giraffe one, that giraffe one was super complicated. | ||
| And Glenn Greenwald and all these other people, they sicced a lot of people on that lady. | ||
| That giraffe had to be killed. | ||
| That giraffe apparently had killed at least two or three young bulls. | ||
| And it was a non-viable male. | ||
| And they made it out like it was this rare giraffe. | ||
| It's rare because it's old. | ||
| It was dark. | ||
| Because the darker ones are older ones. | ||
| We always get down these rabbit holes. | ||
| Somebody says, I'm mad about this photo. | ||
| And the next thing we know, we're debating the age of a fucking single giraffe. | ||
| It matters. | ||
| It does matter, but it doesn't matter to the extent... | ||
| That they try to make it so. | ||
| They don't understand what they're looking at. | ||
| But they are looking at something that they find displeasing. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And you're right about that. | ||
| And I find it displeasing as well. | ||
| When I see that, I'm like, listen, I'm not a giraffe hunter. | ||
| I've never been to that part of Africa. | ||
| I don't know that person. | ||
| But just to look at that, I feel the same way as everyone else. | ||
| Because giraffes are awesome. | ||
| The thing about giraffes, I had a bit about them in my act. | ||
| They're the only animal that looks fine with being in the zoo. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| They're like, another day with no lions. | ||
| And they're just strolling around. | ||
| Babies feed giraffes. | ||
| My fucking daughter, when she was two, I held her up and she had a piece of leaf and she put it out there and the giraffe comes over. | ||
| It's the only wild animal that they let babies feed. | ||
| They don't let little kids feed polar bears. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There's a fucking reason that the polar bears are like, fuck your lettuce. | |
| The polar bear would be dining on fingers. | ||
| Yeah, give me your arm. | ||
| Yeah, man. | ||
| So, I get... | ||
| You're right. | ||
| No, you're right. | ||
| I try. | ||
| It makes sense. | ||
| I want it to be better. | ||
| I want the conversation between, not between Ricky Gervais. | ||
| Ricky Gervais acts like an asshole in this context. | ||
| He enjoys getting angry at people, but in his defense, the stereotypical hunter that is in his mind, what he's fighting against, is an asshole. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, and I would agree. | ||
| And I would be like, dude, I agree with you. | ||
| Most hunters agree with you. | ||
| Some fat guy wants to fly to Africa and shoot an elephant and is not even going to eat it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And he just wants it because he's getting the big eight. | ||
| There's a lot of weird shit about that. | ||
| Well, yeah, the problem I have with that is like... | ||
| Specifically calling out that single person or smaller group subset of hunters that you don't agree with to paint the entire group. | ||
| They think that that's the only way they can get people to stop. | ||
| They think that what they've done with Cecil, look, they enacted real change. | ||
| Yeah, there's been real change around a lot of this stuff. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| With Cecil, they enacted real change, but unfortunately, a lot of it has been negative. | ||
| What people don't understand is how much it costs the people that live there. | ||
| And about these hunting concessions get closed down, and then these animals go wild, and then what happens is poachers just take over, and a lot of the animals get decimated the same way they did in the United States before market hunting was outlawed. | ||
| Well, you look at what a concession is, right? | ||
| A concession, and this happened, I want to say it happened in like the late 70s and early 80s in Africa, where there was, you know, especially antelope and African antelope and all these other species that were there. | ||
| They were not at the brink of extinction, but they were suffering. | ||
| A concession is essentially a bunch of landowners get together and be like, let's put a fence around our stuff to keep poachers out and keep the animals in. | ||
| In Africa, especially South Africa, when concessions became prevalent, wildlife populations skyrocketed. | ||
| You know, tripled, doubled, times ten. | ||
| Hundreds of thousands of antelope that weren't there before. | ||
| Unfortunately, because that's the only way they could have value. | ||
| They had value because they had monetary value. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I'm not... | ||
| I'm conflicted about that point. | ||
| Me too, yeah. | ||
| I'm conflicted about it. | ||
| It's like a thing that worked. | ||
| But is that the way? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I've been over there. | ||
| I'll probably never go back over there. | ||
| Because there's just so many things in North America I'd like to pursue. | ||
| But it's something I was involved with. | ||
| I went and did and I realized, hey, look. | ||
| This is way too complicated. | ||
| And there's way too much American influence based on the money we bring over there that isn't rooted in exactly what's good for Africa. | ||
| So I think African hunting is valuable. | ||
| You can paint that picture all day long. | ||
| They can be like, it's valuable, it's valuable for these reasons, and nobody can really argue the end result of the thing. | ||
| Nobody can argue the end result because it's been so much more effective than just conservation based on donations. | ||
| And that's what people don't understand that argue against it. | ||
| You're wrong. | ||
| When it comes to the numbers, you're wrong. | ||
| You would like to think that people hunting zebras don't help. | ||
| But they do. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| They help way more than people that go over there to take photographs. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So am I willing to say, like, get rid of that so I can feel better about hunting? | ||
| No. | ||
| Fuck no. | ||
| Because I want there to be more animals. | ||
| I mean, the number is so different in the amount of money they contribute. | ||
| This is where people have to understand. | ||
| Because they'll throw some numbers at you. | ||
| Like, you know, 5,000 people go to safaris. | ||
| Only 2,000 people hunt. | ||
| Yeah, sure. | ||
| But the 2,000 people that hunt... | ||
| They hunt and they spend way more fucking money. | ||
| It costs a lot of money to shoot a lion. | ||
| It costs like $50,000. | ||
| As much as you find lion hunting distasteful, you have to understand that if you remove it, it's like when you take a dictator out and then you have like a power vacuum. | ||
| How do you replace it? | ||
| You gotta replace it. | ||
| Well, and it's just like, there are just some on-the-ground things that happen too around, look, if you want to do wildlife viewing, you gotta cut roads. | ||
| If you want to do wildlife viewing, people are going to pay less. | ||
| So it means you have to have more people encroaching on these places where these wild animals are. | ||
| You have to make parks where humans can't go. | ||
| And you have to be prepared when humans get attacked by animals, which is going to fucking happen. | ||
| And so it's never as simple as it seems. | ||
| It is as simple as it seems to say, like, the numbers say that African trophy hunting is benefiting the wildlife. | ||
| Now, is it benefiting in the way that everybody thinks is best? | ||
| That's debatable. | ||
| But you can't sit here and say, like, if we end this today, there'll be more game. | ||
| It's probably the reverse. | ||
| It is the reverse. | ||
| It's probably the reverse. | ||
| It'll hurt your feelings, but it's the reverse. | ||
| What's going on right now in Africa with the exact area that Cecil the lion happened in is that they had to call 200 lions. | ||
| They had to shoot 200 lions, which means they had to pay someone to go and shoot these lions because their population had gotten so high they were decimating the ungulate population. | ||
| So all the antelope and all the different animals that the lions were hunting, they were destroying them. | ||
| Because they have to eat a lot, man. | ||
| But you're a 600-pound cat? | ||
| And you're a meat processor on four legs, bro. | ||
| You can't be like, hey, listen, man. | ||
| Listen. | ||
| Just lay off for a couple of weeks. | ||
| Listen. | ||
| I know they're delicious. | ||
| I know you really like to eat them. | ||
| Also, you know, they were just breeding unchecked. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And then their populations quickly got to a very unmanageable number. | ||
| Well, it seems... | ||
|
unidentified
|
It sucks. | |
| It's never as simple as it seems. | ||
| Mountain lions in California, Washington, and Oregon, like this year in Oregon and Washington, two people were killed, one in each state. | ||
| That hasn't happened in 100 years. | ||
| You know, I've talked to a lot of people that say that's an anomaly, but it happened nonetheless. | ||
| But it doesn't mean anything if it's an anomaly. | ||
| It's also a reality. | ||
| Yeah, it's something that happened. | ||
| Those are predators. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they're big. | ||
| And they've killed, I think, 55 bears in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem this year. | ||
| Probably that number could be skewed in some way for me, but I think that's what I heard. | ||
| And that could be a lot of black bears, right, that invade into... | ||
| I think this was all... | ||
| Grizzly bears that had either been hit by cars or were nuisance or were getting around somebody's cattle that had been shot. | ||
| I think that's the number. | ||
| You'd have to look that up and confirm that I'm right about that because that's a pretty serious accusation if I'm wrong. | ||
| But, you know, that happens in that. | ||
| So there's no simple way to put it, man. | ||
| Well, it happens here with mountain lions. | ||
| I mean, mountain lion hunting is outlawed in California, but they kill the same amount of mountain lions. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And the way they kill them is they have to hire people, and they have to use public funds, these tax dollars, and they hire a guy with dogs to go catch these fucking cats and kill them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, hours ago, we talked about the North American model of wildlife conservation, but that's a thing. | ||
| It's not infallible, but it's pretty fucking close, in my opinion. | ||
| It's a very good system, and there's more stuff that we didn't cover, but shit, dude. | ||
| We're deep. | ||
| We're deep. | ||
| Three hours into this motherfucker. | ||
| How long, Jamie? | ||
| Three hours in. | ||
| It's a good Jerry. | ||
| It's a solid one. | ||
| It's a solid one. | ||
| Let's wrap this bitch up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
See ya. | |
| Ben O'Brien, I'm glad we did this, my brother. | ||
| Always good talking to you, man. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I love you, too, man. | |
| It's good to see you. | ||
| Great to see you. | ||
| You're the man. | ||
| Let's go play some Techno Hunt. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All right, everybody. | ||
| Bye. | ||
| Bye-bye. |
Export Selection