Nov. 15, 2018 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:51:28
Participants
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| And we're live. | ||
| Are you going to update the people out there? | ||
| No. | ||
| Oh, you shut your phone off? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, you're a professional. | ||
| How are you, sir? | ||
| Good to see you. | ||
| I'm doing well. | ||
| What's going on? | ||
| Everything. | ||
| It's all pretty weird out there. | ||
| It is very weird out there. | ||
| We were just talking about how weird it is out there before the podcast about how it just seems like it's very difficult to keep together during these times and to keep a reasonable position and to handle all of the pressure of all the people that get upset at anything you do, left or right, in the middle, centrist, you're too centrist, you're too left, you're too right, you're unreasonable, you're too reasonable, you're too nice, you're not nice enough. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Suddenly I feel like I'm in a marriage. | ||
| Doesn't it seem like that, though? | ||
| Yeah, it does. | ||
| I think that this is the era for disagreeability. | ||
| If you're not easily swayed because you're somehow insensitive enough that you just want to keep to first principles, whatever it is that you believe, that seems to be the best hedge against getting swept up in the madness of others. | ||
| How so? | ||
| I guess when I go metacognitive, I look at my yearning for group belonging. | ||
| And then I also watch my inability to belong to groups that say crazy things. | ||
| And so those are two conflicting feelings. | ||
| I think sometimes when people look at me, they say, wow, you're really contrarian and you have an easy time standing up to the conventional wisdom. | ||
| And I don't think it's that true. | ||
| I just think when those two things fight inside me dialectically, the disagreeability is so strong because it's protecting a comprehensive view of the world. | ||
| And so since everything already kind of fits together fairly well, I would say it's much harder to sway me because the number of things I would have to move cognitively to accommodate a wrong idea is quite large. | ||
| It seems unnecessary, but it also seems like we should be able to disagree on things and you should be able to point out with reasonable courtesy that there's something wrong with someone's idea and it not become a big personal thing. | ||
| But oftentimes that's not the case. | ||
| Well... | ||
| So a lot of the things I think that we're exploring are what I would think of as heuristics. | ||
| They're sort of rules of thumb that work fairly well within some domain of definition. | ||
| And we've gotten so many of these conflicting rules. | ||
| I mean, the rules of thumb themselves conflict. | ||
| So, for example, he who hesitates is lost, conflicts with nothing ventured, nothing gained, or something like that. | ||
| Sorry, no. | ||
| It's... | ||
| Well, I forget. | ||
| There's the cautionary aphorism and then there's the be bold aphorism. | ||
| And so we don't have a good way of sorting out conflicts that occur at the heuristic level. | ||
| Then you also have heuristics meant for social cohesion conflicting with ground truths. | ||
| So this is why biology is always controversial. | ||
| because biology is a science that tells us many of the things that we wish were true are just not true. | ||
| I always think about Ben Shapiro's, facts don't care about your feelings. | ||
| Well, biology cares about your feelings. | ||
| It just laughs at them and stomps on them and makes them feel very sad. | ||
| Well, it also tries to explain your feelings, too. | ||
| Right, exactly. | ||
| But if you really understand biology, the world is so dark and so interesting and beautiful and crazy that it's very hard to recover simple ideas about how people should be once you really realize that our being apes has deep consequences. | ||
| Yeah, I have a very minimal understanding of biology, but in that understanding, I've come to accept some things just about being a person that I never considered before. | ||
| Such as? | ||
| All the different things that are running your decision-making. | ||
| Just what we're talking about, the need to be in a group, and all these are probably evolutionary advantages to fostering tribal behavior so you can all work together and feed each other. | ||
| This is always pulling at you. | ||
| When people give people a hard time about virtue signaling, it is kind of gross when someone virtue signals. | ||
| But we understand what it is. | ||
| It's gross because we've all done it. | ||
| That's one of the gross things about it. | ||
| When someone is just like really trying hard to act like they're disgusted by the way people behave because they would never behave like that. | ||
| And they just want to let you know, I'm above this type of behavior. | ||
| What's most likely because they weren't above that kind of behavior at some point in their life or they're not currently really above that type of behavior, but they wish they were. | ||
| Or the part of them that's speaking is the part that's above that behavior, but that's not the part that's going to be operative after 11 on a weekend at a bar. | ||
| Yeah, three shots in, all bets are off, the wheels are off the wagon. | ||
| So I think we don't see ourselves. | ||
| We are permanently in our own blind spot because the part of us that is just and righteous and good seems to know very little about the other part. | ||
| It's also this thing, this need to belong and need to be accepted. | ||
| Like, we work to be accepted instead of work to be someone that you would want to be a part of the group. | ||
| Instead of being, like, really honest about who you are and how you think and how you behave and how you operate in the world, instead of doing that and trying to prove upon that, you try to project an image of this. | ||
| Here's a question for us. | ||
| Why is vice signaling so much more powerful than virtue signaling? | ||
| Vice signaling like a person who admits their problems, like an alcoholic who steps up and says, I've got a real issue? | ||
| Could be that way, or it could be sort of Dan Bilzerian type vice signaling. | ||
| Like, you want to know what I'm into? | ||
| I'm into hot chicks, weed, and guns, and making tons of money and showing it off. | ||
| Well, he's super honest. | ||
| That's one of the reasons. | ||
| And he's bulletproof in that regard. | ||
| Like, you can't fuck with him. | ||
| Like, you can't say, hey, look at you. | ||
| You're just a playboy. | ||
| He'd be like, yep. | ||
| Yeah, I like girls. | ||
| Yeah, it works. | ||
| Yeah, what else? | ||
| I'm nice. | ||
| He's a nice guy. | ||
| Talk to Dan Bilzerian. | ||
| He's friendly. | ||
| He's not a bad guy. | ||
| No, I mean, he had this post, which was, he was, I think, offering a hand to a woman up a stair, and it said, come with me, I'll ruin your life, but it'll be fun. | ||
| You know, it was just like, it's so disarming. | ||
| And I think that this is also partially, you know, a secret to your success, which is that you're a nice guy. | ||
| You're really into fighting. | ||
| You know, you hunt elk. | ||
| You're clear about which ones you're going to... | ||
| you won't based on the reproductive cycle. | ||
| You're promoting all sorts of things that people don't want to talk about to a fairly conscious level. | ||
| And it's produced an incredible level of trust in an era where all of the virtue signaling gives way. | ||
| I mean, if you scratch any person enough below the surface, you're going to see that they're really warning you about themselves. | ||
| And so the people who are the most sort of self-critical, and this is like, you know, I think I brought this up recently, recently on Twitter about meta-honesty, where there was in the Castro in San Francisco, there was a bar, a restaurant that was advertising free a restaurant that was advertising free food, naked servers, plus false advertising. | ||
| And, you know, it was just fun and playful. | ||
| And as a result, you know, you had an instant desire to eat there and to trust them. | ||
| And so I think that in this world, of virtue signaling, vice signaling is really the growth industry. | ||
| And that's what's working for good people because they are more in touch and You know, they are going to lie to you, and they're going to do all the self-interested things, but they're not going to surprise you quite as much. | ||
| Well, in the case of Dan Bilzerian, I really don't think he's going to lie to you. | ||
| I don't think that's what he's doing. | ||
| I think what he's doing is living like a guy who's got $100 million and happens to be 35 years old and likes to bang hot chicks and fly around in private jets and live in some... | ||
| Have you seen that fucking house that he's got? | ||
| He just bought some crazy house in, like, Bel Air, I guess with that weed money. | ||
| Jesus! | ||
| It looks like you probably cost a hundred million dollars or something ridiculous like that. | ||
| It's a fucking insane house. | ||
| But that's what he likes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You know, the guy likes to drive around Ferraris, but he's a nice guy. | ||
| So it's like, well, what's wrong with this picture? | ||
| What's wrong with this picture is he's doing things... | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| This is his house. | ||
| What in the... | ||
| Holy fuck is that? | ||
| Does he have a golf course on his roof? | ||
| What is that? | ||
| This is a fucking ridiculous house. | ||
| Look at this fucking place. | ||
| He gives his address out? | ||
| Is that his address? | ||
| It's pretty hard to hide that thing. | ||
| Why the fuck would he give us a dress out? | ||
| I don't think you can get there. | ||
| It's in Bel Air. | ||
| Whoa, look at this house. | ||
| It's preposterous. | ||
| Anyway, this is what he likes. | ||
| But why is that bad? | ||
| I mean, look, we only have 100 years if everything goes perfect. | ||
| I know. | ||
| What do you give a shit? | ||
| Like, why does everybody give a shit? | ||
| But they do give a shit. | ||
| They give a shit a lot. | ||
| because for a lot of folks that are working, making a good living, making 50 grand a year or whatever, that's completely out of the realm of possibility. | ||
| And his lifestyle wouldn't be sustainable for them. | ||
| I mean, because he's taking real risk. | ||
| There's no question about it. | ||
| When you get everybody stoned and then you take them to fire automatic weapons out in the desert. | ||
| Oh, yeah, that's real risk. | ||
| And also the gambling. | ||
| He does a lot of crazy gambling. | ||
| But this is the thing about the relationship with the unforgiving. | ||
| This is partially why I think your UFC and jiu-jitsu life is that when you have a relationship with the unforgiving, you can say, you know, that guy doesn't really know what he's doing, but then you're in the ring. | ||
| You know, you're the man in the arena. | ||
| And you find out very quickly whether or not the trash talking, you know, paid off or it didn't. | ||
| And I think that many people have no relationship with the unforgiving. | ||
| Like, you'll take them out on a hike into, you know, let's say, the Trinity Wilderness, and then two hours in, they'll just sit down and say, I want to go home. | ||
| And you're thinking, like, Okay? | ||
| You're signaling something, but there's no car service, and we're not calling a helicopter. | ||
| If you live in the social layer, you're surprised by the existence of the unforgiving. | ||
| Well, on one hand, I want to support people's ability to do whatever the fuck they want. | ||
| On one hand, I want to support someone's ability to sit in front of a computer and... | ||
| Whether you're working, or you're writing code, or you're writing a script, or you're just fucking playing video games. | ||
| I want to support your ability to do whatever you want to do. | ||
| If you have the means, if your family's not starving, this is what you enjoy doing, why do I care? | ||
| But as a person who's experienced a fair amount of adversity, especially self-imposed adversity, I would tell you that you would benefit from it. | ||
| I've benefited from it, and I think you'd benefit from it too. | ||
| You don't want to be that guy that two hours into the hike says, I want to go home. | ||
| You don't want to be that guy. | ||
| You want to be that person who just says, well, this is what we're doing. | ||
| And I'm going to figure out how to do this, and I'm going to show character, and I'm going to be proud of myself at the end of this. | ||
| I mean, I might have to walk for six hours, and when it's all over, my legs might be shaky, and I might have to sit down, but that Gatorade's going to taste so good. | ||
| It's going to be like the greatest Gatorade of all time, because you're going to drink it, and you'll be like, I'll earn the shit out of this. | ||
| You're going to feel it. | ||
| And I think... | ||
| We learn about ourselves through especially self, well, any kind of adversity. | ||
| Look, I'm coming off of being evacuated from the fires, which was, for me, not that difficult. | ||
| I'm not poor. | ||
| I got a hotel. | ||
| I brought my family to the hotel. | ||
| We got safe. | ||
| Got my dog to the to the podcast studio and everybody's all right, you know But for those firefighters, I mean 12-hour shifts battling the blaze for people who lost their homes some of them tried to save it There was a story about a guy in Malibu that climbed on top of his roof with a hose and tried to fight off the fire and he got severe burns and he's in the hospital and I mean it's raining ash and and and and these chunks of No | ||
| question. | ||
| We've been in something of a reality drought. | ||
| The number of people who have Very little relationship to reality. | ||
| I mean, you know, I used to live in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and you'd come in from Boston and there would be the signs that fresh-killed chicken. | ||
| Like, no bones about it, man. | ||
| Fresh-killed chicken. | ||
| But, like, Chicken McNuggets? | ||
| But part of the chicken is a McNugget, right? | ||
| It's just some abstraction that comes to you. | ||
| And so I think we've gotten very divorced. | ||
| There are all of these layers of indirection between us and the world. | ||
| And when a fire happens, it's so overwhelming. | ||
| We were just choking on the SF smoke in the Bay Area. | ||
| It gets real after having been unreal for a very long time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's unavoidable. | ||
| It makes you buck up. | ||
| You've got to get out of there. | ||
| We got evacuated Thursday at 2.30 in the morning. | ||
| We were looking up. | ||
| We were like, we've got to get the fuck out of here. | ||
| I don't give a shit what you leave behind. | ||
| Just go. | ||
| Keep your body and go. | ||
| Everything else, it's either replaceable or you don't really need it that much anyway. | ||
| Just fucking get out of there. | ||
| And when you see that fire raging over those hills and helicopters are dropping water on it and then another house explodes because the gas line gets hit. | ||
| I saw that. | ||
| You see that. | ||
| You go, oh, there's not enough people in the world to save you. | ||
| There's not enough fucking firefighters or cops. | ||
| There's too many houses. | ||
| There's too many people. | ||
| And a bunch of these houses are going to go. | ||
| You've got to get the fuck out of there. | ||
| But there's a certain... | ||
| I was with a bunch of my friends from my neighborhood and my friend Tom Segura and his wife. | ||
| We all stayed at the same hotel. | ||
| There was like a tangible sense of community. | ||
| I love this point. | ||
| Let's imagine you go for a wedding and they house you with your third cousins, people you barely know. | ||
| If you're lucky enough that the sewage system breaks and stuff is leaking out of the ceiling and you guys all have to do heroic crazy stuff to save the house, you're going to be closer to your third cousin than you are to your uncle. | ||
| And this is this very strange feature of the world that kind of a random arrival of diversity is very often what bonds you to some particular human being. | ||
| And if you avoid adversity in groups your whole life, You probably don't realize that you're never fully activated as a human being. | ||
| Particularly if men, I think, don't form groups that in some sense fight or battle or contest together. | ||
| So there's this very weird fact that apparently humans are the only species that organize contests in teams. | ||
| This is an intrinsic feature of being human. | ||
| Contests. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Do other animals have any contests? | ||
| Well, chimps will have these incredible raiding parties. | ||
| They're very methodical and they'll attack somebody else. | ||
| But I don't think that they practice it. | ||
| It's like, okay, you're red team chimp and you're blue team chimp. | ||
| Well, we're the only ones that do stuff like that that can communicate, right? | ||
| Like dolphins can communicate, but they don't do stuff like that. | ||
| Right, or you have individual sparring, like you'll have two bears learning to play with each other because it's safer to play with your brother in childhood than it is to just suddenly show up against some big-ass bear and have to compete for females. | ||
| I had William von Hippel on a couple days ago, and he's the author of The Social Leap. | ||
| And we were actually talking about this, about one of the things that made human beings successful as we came down from the trees and started walking around the grasslands is our ability to organize and to work and coordinate together. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you know, but like African wild dogs are fairly good at this. | ||
| And you watch what they do in their spare time. | ||
| Very often, they just take the piss out of each other. | ||
| So they actually come to each other's aid at a very high level in times of need. | ||
| But like, you know, when you're just hanging out around the firehouse, you're really just giving each other shit all the time. | ||
| And so there's something about the way in which we play being kind of divergent from the way in which we behave when we actually just need each other. | ||
| And it's like you need to be on that line, you know, let's say, you know, throwing burlap bags and I just need you to do that thing and we're both facing something together. | ||
| It doesn't have to be fighting in a militaristic situation, but I do think that – This is one of the weird things that's going on with all of this emphasis on care and feelings, is that often men need to give each other shit in order to form very deep bonds. | ||
| If I can't tease you, and if I don't know where the line is, like there is this line, which is like, dude, that was way too far. | ||
| We all know that those lines exist, and we sometimes have to go up to them, and sometimes we have to experiment by going over them. | ||
| But if somebody says, I don't like the way you're talking, that seems very insensitive. | ||
| My response is, well, you're going to keep me from forming a deep bond with that person. | ||
| You just don't know that that's how we do it. | ||
| Yeah, they're shielding. | ||
| They're putting up their shield. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And often is, you know, to project a certain image to you. | ||
| They want to be taken seriously. | ||
| They want some respect. | ||
| They can't deal with you goofing on them. | ||
| That's true, and goofing can go wrong. | ||
| But I think that... | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| that started to be taught in schools around emotional intelligence. | ||
| So this whole idea of EQ, I think, had a lot to it. | ||
| But not all the bugs were worked out because a lot of things that kind of are in the neighborhood of bullying might be actually intimacy building. | ||
| And so if something turns into some super disgusting, deadly hazing ritual, we all say, what the hell are you people doing? | ||
| But on the other hand, if it's sort of three clicks back from that line and there was mild discomfort, we humiliated each other a little bit, and now we're friends for life, then – You know, the fear of the hazing ritual gone wrong may actually stop people from ever actually making the really deep bonds to last a lifetime. | ||
| Well, isn't it like everything else? | ||
| Some people are good at things and some people suck at it. | ||
| So some people are good at being silly with their friends and some people go too far. | ||
| I mean, you experience that. | ||
| Like I've had friends who experienced that where they do a podcast and on the podcast they fuck with each other And they'll have someone come up to them that they don't even know right off the street and immediately say something like ruthlessly Insulting to them and they're like what the fuck and they're like, yeah, man You do that shit on your podcast all the time. | ||
| It's like, okay, you're doing it wrong. | ||
| I don't know you. | ||
| We're not friends We're not bonding here. | ||
| You're walking up and saying something mean calling someone a fatso exactly and Yeah, it's like they're just not good at it. | ||
| And oftentimes that's some sort of a sign of social intelligence, a lack of social intelligence, a lack of, I mean, who knows what's going on in their home. | ||
| It might just be bad information from parents and they're growing up in this environment of just very low-level social skills. | ||
| And now what we're doing is, I mean, I think that you're spot on. | ||
| We're now going to try to readjust everyone around our weakest players. | ||
| So now the idea is that because that can be said in a horrible way, we're not going to let anyone say anything remotely adjacent to it. | ||
| You can't do anything that would be a precursor to it. | ||
| So you're just going to say, well, you see that little patch of bad cells over there? | ||
| We're going to cut off your leg in order to stop that cancer. | ||
| It's just like, couldn't we do something a little bit more surgical? | ||
| Well, and also, there's some things that you're... | ||
| There's a reason why we have this instinct to mock things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's because people get out of line, and then they demand too much goddamn attention, and they become a problem. | ||
| And this is a... | ||
| I think... | ||
| I believe this goes back to hunting parties and hunter-gatherers, where the one person who just wanted too much attention, like, you're fucking it up for this group effort. | ||
| And that's kind of what happens socially when people claim these very ridiculous victim statuses. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, and there's a picture that I put up on my Instagram a couple weeks ago of this guy. | ||
| He had this crazy makeup on, and he had this ridiculous description of himself, like, non-binary queer that also identifies as a Muslim, and he was talking about quantum physics, and quantum physics helped him appreciate his queerness. | ||
| And I looked at that, I said, okay, maybe. | ||
| Or maybe you're just fucking crying out for attention. | ||
| And all I wrote was, makes sense, definitely doesn't seem crazy. | ||
| And people got mad at me for that, for something so obvious. | ||
| I looked, I just peered into the fucking deep dungeon that is the comment section for a moment. | ||
| And I saw people like, you would think that the people that are most susceptible to suicide, you would leave them alone. | ||
| But your cruelty is, you know, you're exposing your cruelty. | ||
| Like, listen, that's silly. | ||
| That guy needs better friends. | ||
| Your friends are gonna tell you, you're silly, you got crazy makeup. | ||
| Have you seen this guy? | ||
| No. | ||
| You have a photo? | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| British, Iraqi, gay, non-binary, and also identify as Muslim. | ||
| Listen, you need too much goddamn attention. | ||
| That's all I'm saying. | ||
| I'm not saying you're a bad person, you should kill yourself, you shouldn't be queer. | ||
| Be whatever you want to be. | ||
| But if you're going that hard, that hard to define yourself, that is needy as shit. | ||
| That's fucking annoying. | ||
| But your point is that you have to titrate the negative feedback. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Right? | ||
| So what you did was you gave them a small dose and saying, look, You might want to course correct a little bit. | ||
| The idea that there's any course correction, that you're not sitting there celebrating this. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, that's... | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, you're supposed to celebrate it. | ||
| I'm supposed to celebrate so many things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you know what? | ||
| You can celebrate it. | ||
| That's okay. | ||
| But you shouldn't get mad if I go, oh, that might be a little nuts. | ||
| Because it's obviously a little nuts. | ||
| It's a little nuts to paint your face with glitter. | ||
| It's a little nuts. | ||
| It's a little nuts if that was just a regular person who's like, Hi, I work at JCPenney. | ||
| My name is Wendy and this is what I like to wear on my face. | ||
| Like, okay, Wendy's a crazy bitch. | ||
| Look at Wendy. | ||
| Go look at Wendy. | ||
| Look at her face. | ||
| What is she doing? | ||
| I don't know, man. | ||
| She's got fucking crazy glitter and her hair's 15 different colors. | ||
| Okay, but look at it this way. | ||
| I have this weird thing, which sometimes is called machilophobia. | ||
| The fear of cosmetics. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| What kind? | ||
| Eyeshadow? | ||
| Like smoky? | ||
| What about fake eyelashes? | ||
| Well, this is the thing. | ||
| Sometimes it looks somewhat normal, and then suddenly it doesn't integrate, and the person just looks like they've got crazy stuff stuck to their head. | ||
| And you're like, you've got crazy stuff stuck to your head! | ||
| Well, that's how I perceive it. | ||
| Now, here's the question. | ||
| I can't be in touch. | ||
| Like, it can't be, Eric's got a problem with makelophobia. | ||
| I've never heard that word. | ||
| It's freaking me out. | ||
| Makelophobia. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It has to be, Eric can't accept people who wear makeup. | ||
| And my question would be, from first principles, how do you tell who to have sympathy with? | ||
| Because this has been somewhat debilitating for me. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah, sure. | ||
| So it's been a real issue. | ||
| Like, you've struggled with it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Have you struggled with the feeling or struggled with the fact that you have the feeling? | ||
| Look, everybody actually experienced. | ||
| If you remember Tammy Faye Baker. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah! | |
| Right? | ||
| So she was famous for freaking people out because she had no concept of how much... | ||
| Makeup is too much. | ||
| Is too much. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Now, what if somebody looks normal and then you turn around and suddenly they're Tammy Faye Baker and you never can predict when that's going to happen. | ||
| So that's like... | ||
| An interesting question about, do we accept the person who... | ||
| I don't know why I have this, it's just that's something in my mind. | ||
| Well, because you're a logical person, and you're looking at this war paint that people are putting on, and you don't understand the desire to do this. | ||
| Well, I do understand. | ||
| You do, but you don't understand actually doing it. | ||
| I don't understand why it... | ||
| I have the feeling that to other people it looks very different than the way it looks to me. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, they've just accepted it. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| Sometimes I accept it. | ||
| And then suddenly, you know, I shake it. | ||
| It's like you're shaken out of the movie. | ||
| Like you see a movie where suddenly the mic is visible from the top. | ||
| And you're like, whoa! | ||
| What's going on here? | ||
| It's a movie. | ||
| It's a movie. | ||
| And that... | ||
| But anyway, we all have these weird quirks. | ||
| The question is, with whom should we be sympathetic? | ||
| And with whom do we say, well, you're being judgmental? | ||
| With me, it's women's shoes that have gigantic heels, those stilettos that they could barely walk in. | ||
| That one freaks me out. | ||
| It freaks me out because I see women walking in and I'm like, this is so crazy that this is a choice. | ||
| I can't imagine, I'm paranoid I guess, maybe I've seen too much physical conflict. | ||
| I can't imagine wearing something that would physically compromise me to the point where I literally can't run away. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because you can't run away in those things. | ||
| If you're in like stilettos, like these little things that you walk around in, and your feet are all smushed in, and you're basically doing tiptoes everywhere you go, and your feet have to be killing you by the end of the night, right? | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| You're not running away. | ||
| If there's a wolf chasing you or some shit, if there's something going down, you're not getting away. | ||
| It's a weird desire to lengthen your legs and to give this graceful appearance. | ||
| Well, it's called lardosis behavior. | ||
| Lardosis. | ||
| Lardosis behavior. | ||
| I'm learning so much today. | ||
| Okay, so high heels were originally developed for men. | ||
| To appear taller. | ||
| I'm not sure if it was to appear taller only or if it was for riding. | ||
| Oh, for horses. | ||
| Yeah, maybe. | ||
| For a lot of people who don't know, cowboy boots, the reason why they slip on like that is when the horse bucks and takes off, your boots fall off. | ||
| They're supposed to. | ||
| I didn't know that. | ||
| Yeah, that's the whole idea behind them. | ||
| The reason you slip on and slip off and they have that heel, where there's that wooden heel, that heel slips into the stirrups. | ||
| So when the horse bucks, you don't want to get dragged, son. | ||
| You wanted that shit to just fly off. | ||
| And then you're on your back going, oh, look at that horse go. | ||
| And then you go pick up your boots because they've fallen off. | ||
| And the fucking horse is gone, but at least you're alive. | ||
| Oh, that's that expression. | ||
| He died with his boots on. | ||
| Well, not really. | ||
| I think that's like a gunfight type deal. | ||
| But I think if you get dragged, horses are going to run over rocks and shit. | ||
| You're done. | ||
| People die all the time that are wearing regular shoes that shove their feet into stirrups and then you're stuck. | ||
| That's why cowboy boots come off like that. | ||
| Yeah, I remember when I used to ride horses, we'd have the guy leading the trail would take us up to a gallop and suddenly say, emergency dismount! | ||
| It was really terrifying. | ||
| Yeah, and you'd have to do it at speed very, very quickly. | ||
| But I think that high heels got taken over by women. | ||
| Because a lot of the things that we claim that we like about heels, that is, I do it for height, I like the way it makes the leg look, probably secondary to the curvature of the back and the way in which that is typically associated with sexual receptivity. | ||
| So it's that particular posture. | ||
| That the heel connotes. | ||
| And so the way I read it is that the cost of the heel is part of the communication. | ||
| In other words, I'm willing to do something that is clearly not comfortable or for my benefit in any other way, so much so that you can tell that I must be interested in sending a signal. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, but you have to deny the signal, too. | ||
| So part of the signaling is to say, oh, these are actually my most comfortable shoes. | ||
| They always say that. | ||
| Girls are hilarious. | ||
| They're so comfortable. | ||
| These are so comfortable. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| Like, how is that even possible? | ||
| Those aren't Crocs. | ||
| Yes, but the deception has to be part of... | ||
| Oh, now I'm like picturing Crocs with heels. | ||
| That was really weird. | ||
| Well, the deception has to be, you have to decide that you're not ridiculous. | ||
| No, it's a shared deception. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Because then as the guy, I have to say, oh, that's so interesting. | ||
| Yeah, but that's a lie. | ||
| Well, we're all lying, but it's mutually understood as a lie. | ||
| Yeah, but when the girls are saying... | ||
| Girls could say, these are so comfortable because they're not killing them. | ||
| Because they've accepted a higher level of pain tolerance with footwear than men have. | ||
| Like, if I had to just jam my feet into something pointy, like some pointy-ass Spanish dancer-type shoes... | ||
| It would hurt. | ||
| After a while. | ||
| You ever wear a tie? | ||
|
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I've worn ties. | |
| I hate those things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay, so that's some kind of uncomfortable thing that we do to ourselves as men. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I used to have to wear one when I drove limos. | ||
| I think, well, I've definitely worn one since then, but very rarely. | ||
|
unidentified
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Very rarely. | |
| Someone could kill you pretty easily with a tie. | ||
| Like, if someone has a tie on, and I grab ahold of their tie... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Boy, unless you're a lot bigger than me, I might kill you. | ||
| Got a hold of your tie? | ||
| Tie's a hard thing to shake loose. | ||
| It's really strong. | ||
| A good tie is not going to rip. | ||
| If someone gets a hold of your tie at the knot and just twists and holds onto you, all they have to do is hold onto you. | ||
| Grab an arm and just wrap their legs around you and hold onto that tie? | ||
| You're a dead man. | ||
| You're giving them a weapon to kill you all the time. | ||
| Alright, you've convinced me. | ||
| No more ties. | ||
| Grab that and just fucking twist. | ||
| You don't have much time, man. | ||
| You don't have much time to get this arm off your neck. | ||
| This is such a UFC spin. | ||
| It's a jiu-jitsu spin. | ||
| Because UFC, you don't wear clothes. | ||
| To be able to grab a hold of someone's clothing, like a person with a leather jacket. | ||
| If you're talking shit and you have a leather jacket on and you're with a guy who knows judo, you are beyond fucked. | ||
| This guy might as well have cannons coming out of his body. | ||
| You're doomed. | ||
| You're 100% doomed. | ||
| He's going to grab that leather jacket and he basically has handles and he's going to throw you up in the air and he's going to hit you with the world. | ||
| The whole world is below. | ||
| And he's going to drive you into the world. | ||
| And you're so fucked. | ||
| And you don't even realize it. | ||
| Joe, how often do you end up in fistfights? | ||
| Never. | ||
| Never, man. | ||
| I don't want to have nothing to do with that. | ||
| I just get away. | ||
| I would never want to get in a fistfight. | ||
| Fistfights are dangerous. | ||
| This is fascinating to me about the world here. | ||
| It's always talking about fighting and what can happen. | ||
| And in our world, there's almost none of this in... | ||
| You know, relatively boring white guy, middle-aged... | ||
| You ever go on World Star Hip Hop? | ||
| That shit's all day. | ||
| Every day. | ||
| There's plenty of videos. | ||
| Most of the time, nothing happens. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But the one time when shit does happen, if you don't know how to defend yourself, you're really fucked. | ||
| This is true. | ||
| But the thing is that in all the practicing that you do, you're also exposing yourself to the potential for injury. | ||
|
unidentified
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Oh, yeah! | |
| So there's a question as to whether you're safer if you spend all of your time in this kind of, well, what if something happens, I want to be prepared, but the preparation for it is itself potentially fairly hazardous. | ||
| That's unquestionable, but isn't that just like the guy who sits on the couch and never goes into the woods because he doesn't want to get tired? | ||
| I know. | ||
| It's very similar because, like, here we are, I'm 51 years old, and it all works! | ||
| Ta-da! | ||
| So even though I've been injured... | ||
| I'm right here. | ||
| Everything works. | ||
| I got a bunch of shit fixed. | ||
| What if the UFC thing was bold and interesting when you were a young guy? | ||
| Do you think you would have... | ||
| I would have 100% done it, and I probably would have a much harder time having this conversation. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Yeah, for sure. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I think you hit the sweet spot where you got the skills, you've been in a training idiom, you really know what you're talking about, and you're getting front row seats but not actually having to have your brain particularly take the pounding. | ||
| There's no getting away from that. | ||
| That is the unfortunate reality that every fighter accepts. | ||
| There's no getting away from that. | ||
| There's an absolute possibility, and it's not just your head, it's also your joints. | ||
| The big part is your back and your neck. | ||
| I know many guys that have neck impingements and disc herniations and fused neck discs and then nerve pinchs. | ||
| Where their nerves are impinged to the point where they have atrophy in their arms. | ||
| I know several guys who have that, where they have one arm that's smaller than the other arm, and it severely impedes their ability to move, and they used to be world champions. | ||
| Two guys that have been on the show, Bas Root and Pat Miletic, two of the greatest of all time. | ||
| Both guys have one small arm and one regular-size arm because of neck impingements. | ||
| Their nerves are literally pinched down by all the swelling and scar tissue and damaged discs. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, since we became friends, I started just casually looking at this world, and it's utterly fascinating. | ||
| I mean, there's nothing like it. | ||
| Well, the jujitsu world, I think you would – there's two different worlds, right? | ||
| There's the MMA world, which incorporates all the different martial arts, and then there's the jujitsu world. | ||
| And the jiu-jitsu world, I think, you would find... | ||
| Would geek out. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You would love it. | ||
| Because it's basically... | ||
| To call it chess is not quite fair. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because it's more complex than chess. | ||
| There's much more going on. | ||
| The degrees of freedom are so high. | ||
| But it's also easier to win if someone's better than chess. | ||
| Because even if someone is fairly competent in chess, it'll take a few moves to beat them. | ||
| And jiu-jitsu, if someone's fairly competent and the other one is a master, it'll probably crush you very quickly. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| But when you watch two really high-level guys trying to set each other up, it's this crazy rolling exercise in leverage and position and the knowledge of moves. | ||
| That Eddie Bravo versus Hoyler Gracie. | ||
| It's hard to even know what's going on. | ||
| It's crazy if you don't know. | ||
| It's one of my more difficult challenges of being a commentator, is when the fight goes to the ground, explaining to people watching at home, what he wants to do right now is get his right leg over his arm, and as soon as he does that, now that arm is stuck. | ||
| He's in trouble right now. | ||
| And to try to explain that to people so they can follow along and go, oh, I see, I see. | ||
| And he's going to grab that, he's going to arch his back, and he tapped. | ||
| And people go, oh! | ||
| And it gets people really excited about jiu-jitsu because they see that and they go, oh, this is like really complicated. | ||
| Like he's got, there's like a dance he's doing and the other guy's trying to resist the dance. | ||
| Well, the first time I saw the Gracie breakdown of particular fights where they've committed to memory every move. | ||
| And it's like replaying the great games of like Morphe or Kapobanka and chess. | ||
| And you're just thinking, wow. | ||
| Okay, there's the evergreen game. | ||
| There's the immortal game. | ||
| And... | ||
| That to me is fascinating. | ||
| But it's actually more interesting to me in the UFC arena because of the fact that that's only a component. | ||
| What I didn't understand was how much we could get close to unrestricted fighting and still have people fairly dependably survive with... | ||
| Minimal, obvious disfigurement. | ||
| We could even be safer if we eliminated weight cutting. | ||
| The weight cutting is the number one health issue in the sport, in my opinion. | ||
| Number two is the brain damage and the impact and broken bones and things along those lines. | ||
| But the number one is weight cutting because it's so unnecessary. | ||
| It's such an issue that needs to be addressed because these guys want to compete at the highest weight possible. | ||
| Do you know how it works? | ||
| No. | ||
| Okay, say if you were going to compete in the 170-pound division, but you actually weighed 190, what you would do is you would follow a pretty strict diet, keep your body weight and your fat at a certain level, and then when it comes down to a few days before, you would dehydrate yourself pretty radically. | ||
| And then rehydrate yourself scientifically. | ||
| There's a bunch of guys like George Lockhart, guys who are experts in this, and they'll give you the exact right amount of nutrients, the right amount of potassium and zinc, and they want to replenish all of your electrolytes and get you in a perfect balance, but you're still compromised. | ||
| And if you don't have a guy like a George Lockhart or someone who's a real expert in nutrition and understands biology and can get you back into that position, you're most likely going to compete compromised, but you're going to accept that significant compromising because you're going to be a bigger person than the person you're fighting. | ||
| But in boxing in particular, the vast majority of deaths have occurred in the lighter weight divisions, and a lot of it is not just because of the head trauma, but because it's head trauma to someone who's dehydrated. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| Yeah, it's like, it sucks. | ||
| And it's contrary to what martial arts is supposed to be about. | ||
| Martial arts is supposed to be about skill for skill. | ||
| It's not supposed to be about cheating. | ||
| And the cheating thing is like, you're dehydrating yourself. | ||
| It's like sanctioned cheating. | ||
| You're saying you're 170 pounds. | ||
| Like if you say, the 170 pound champion! | ||
| And get on the scale. | ||
| He's 193. What the fuck's going on? | ||
| This isn't a 170-pound guy. | ||
| How frustrating if I want to meet you in a different class. | ||
| Like, I wanted to fight you my whole life, but we're really separated. | ||
| Well, you can lose weight the right way. | ||
| Look, if somebody wants to compete at 170 pounds, in my humble opinion, they should actually weigh 170 pounds. | ||
| My friend Cam Haynes is an ultramarathon runner, and one of the things that he does when he gets ready for ultramarathons is he loses body weight, but he doesn't have any body weight to lose. | ||
| So he'll burn 3,000 calories and eat 2,000 calories, and that's how he loses weight. | ||
| He lets his body eat itself. | ||
| So he gets down to the 160s, and that's when he runs these gigantic long races, like 240 miles. | ||
| But I know he's done this. | ||
| You can do this. | ||
| You don't have to dehydrate yourself. | ||
| But they choose to dehydrate themselves because they replenish, and then they get much bigger when they get inside the octagon. | ||
| When he's 165, he's actually 165. | ||
| That's just what he weighs, and that's the best way to run 240 miles. | ||
| 40 miles so he does it through discipline but these guys that are doing it and it's not their fault because it's already been established it's a part of the sport it's been there for years and years and years and it's it's sanctioned cheating and everybody does it and it's the worst part of the sport because it's really damaging to your kidneys yeah terrible for your organs and Your body starts to shut down when you do it too often. | ||
| Your body doesn't want to lose weight anymore, so it starts to really hold on to that water. | ||
| And guys fall asleep and pass out and bang their heads off walls and fights get canceled. | ||
| Like championship-level fights get canceled because guys black out and crack their head off the wall. | ||
| And this has happened in the UFC before. | ||
| It's just... | ||
| Super, super unnecessary and unfortunate. | ||
| And part of it is because there's not enough weight classes. | ||
| There's like, you know, there's 155 and then there's 170. The difference between 155 and 170 is not just 15 pounds. | ||
| Because if you actually weigh 155 and this guy's dropping down to 170, that motherfucker could be 190 plus. | ||
| And he's just figuring out a way to cut weight to get down to there. | ||
| And that happens all the time. | ||
| So you're dealing with, you know, it could be 25, 30 pounds difference between you two guys if you actually weigh what the weight class is when you get into the octagon. | ||
| So people are forced to drop weight. | ||
| They're forced to go lower. | ||
| If they want to compete at a world-class level, they're forced to take this extra risk. | ||
| And it could be mitigated. | ||
| It could all be stopped by hydration tests. | ||
| The UFC could step in. | ||
| All the athletic commissions could step in and say, enough is enough. | ||
| You're going to fight at what you weigh, and we're going to give you more weight classes so you can figure out what's the weight for you to be best at. | ||
| And I hope it doesn't take someone dying before they figure this out. | ||
| Because it's one of those things that people have done like... | ||
| Circumcision. | ||
| They've done it forever, so they just keep doing it. | ||
| But if they just started doing it tomorrow, people would be like, why did you cut that baby's dick? | ||
| Are you fucking crazy? | ||
| Well, I've always cut babies' dicks. | ||
| I've been cutting babies' dicks for years. | ||
| You need more of a Yiddish accent. | ||
| You get used to it. | ||
| Well, it's not just Yiddish. | ||
| I'm Catholic. | ||
| My dick got cut. | ||
| It's practiced across the board under the guise of being sanitary, prevention of AIDS. There's all these stupid reasons to cut dicks. | ||
| Really, it's just a tradition that doesn't make any goddamn sense. | ||
| Now, it's not the best analogy to weight cutting. | ||
| Before we get into cutting dicks, I do want to... | ||
| Pick up on an analogy, which I'm curious about. | ||
| So when you're trying to describe the ground game, it's super tough for a lay audience because the picture doesn't necessarily match what you're seeing because the layer of expertise makes a bunch of random arm movements and head movements and hip movements into something else. | ||
| We have the same problem in like math and physics where everybody wants to know what's going on with that thing. | ||
| I've been listening to the physicists on your program. | ||
| I don't think you have many mathematicians, but it's so confusing to figure out how to talk to the world about things that everybody wants to know about. | ||
| And I was just curious if you saw a parallel in those two things. | ||
| Those are both very high art forms. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Sean Carroll has done a really good job of trying to explain things. | ||
| Neil deGrasse Tyson's done a really good job of trying to explain things. | ||
| Well, I saw the explanation of gauge symmetry. | ||
| Lawrence Krauss? | ||
| Yeah, on your show. | ||
| Which is like, to my way of thinking, one of the most important principles in the world. | ||
| Yeah, I still have no idea what the fuck he said. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Well, I read his book, and after I read his book, that was the number one question I had. | ||
| I said, okay, I need you to explain to me what is gauge symmetry. | ||
| What does that mean? | ||
| It's so weird that he didn't... | ||
| I don't think he expected me to just bust it out. | ||
| Yeah, I don't think so either. | ||
| Maybe that's it. | ||
| But I think that it's so hard to... | ||
| Okay, here's one of my... | ||
| We'll get back to gauge symmetry maybe, but like... | ||
| When people say the universe is expanding, what the fuck does that mean? | ||
| It's going somewhere. | ||
| Every smart person says, into what? | ||
| It's the universe. | ||
| What is it expanding into? | ||
| Where's it going? | ||
| How could it? | ||
| It doesn't make any sense because the linguistics of the universe is expanding isn't really what the... | ||
| So you're saying the matter in the universe is moving outwards? | ||
| Is that what the universe is expanding means? | ||
|
unidentified
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No, no. | |
| What it means is... | ||
| The infinite universe is getting more infinite-er? | ||
| No. | ||
| So, first of all, is that they tell... | ||
| Did you say that? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Infinite-er? | ||
| I was trying to be silly. | ||
| The sativa's kicking in. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, if you think about this bottle, it's the slices of the bottle that are expanding. | ||
| But if you think of the bottle as the universe, the bottle isn't expanding. | ||
| It's just the cross-sections that are expanding. | ||
| And so that's what they really mean. | ||
| What they really mean is something like the space-time metric on space-like cross-sections has its volume form when integrated is higher, something like that. | ||
| It's some mathematical statement. | ||
| But the universe's expanding is not helpful to me. | ||
| Like, if I wasn't able to read the math, I would say, I don't get it. | ||
| Well, I don't get anything. | ||
| Quite honestly, and I'm not being self-deprecating, I don't get the Big Bang. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't get it at all. | ||
| Well, okay, here's what somebody should tell you. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| There are two kinds of singularities when you try to solve Einstein's field equations for gravity. | ||
| So gravity is a thing. | ||
| Einstein tells us pretty much what we think gravity is. | ||
| It's the curvature of space and time. | ||
| And when we try to solve his equations, We get these black hole singularities, which are called Schwarzschild singularities, and then we get this initial singularity, which we associate back to the Big Bang with the Friedman, Walker, Robertson model. | ||
| In some sense, those singularities are indications to us that we're not at the end of physics and that Einstein's equations aren't the real story. | ||
| And so rather than sort of saying, they're a pretty good model up until this point, and then we kind of really don't know what happened then. | ||
| We have the observational thing that we would map to the Big Bang, and then we have the model thing that we would map to the Big Bang. | ||
| And to be honest with you, we're pretty sure that our models don't make sense past a point, and now we're having this conversation past the point where we're pretty sure they don't make sense. | ||
| That would be much more honest to me. | ||
| But because we have this desire to... | ||
| To blow people's minds gratuitously. | ||
| And everybody wants, well, how did everything begin? | ||
| And where are we? | ||
| And who are we? | ||
| And we want to sort of answer more of that than we probably should. | ||
| Hmm. | ||
| That's an interesting way. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| Let me give you an alternate spin on quantum mechanics. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| So typically people will say, you know, the mind-blowing thing about quantum mechanics is that it's probabilistic. | ||
| And that is kind of mind-blowing. | ||
| But if you actually say it differently, you say, look... | ||
| In classical mechanics, like Newton, stuff that we feel more comfortable with, you have good questions and bad questions. | ||
| Like if you and I go hang out at the beach and I say to you, hey, where is that wave concentrated? | ||
| At what point does that wave live? | ||
| You look at me and say, it's a wave. | ||
| It's not concentrated at a point. | ||
| It's all along the shore. | ||
| So as a classical physicist, you say, that's not a good question, Eric. | ||
| And when I ask you a good question, like how fast is the wavefront moving along this trajectory or something, you can give me an answer and it's definite. | ||
| So as long as you ask a good question in classical mechanics, you get definite answers. | ||
| When you go to quantum mechanics and you ask a good question, Technically, that means that the state vector is an observable of the Hermitian operator representing the question. | ||
| Never mind. | ||
| Funny thing happens. | ||
| You get deterministic answers. | ||
| There's no probability involved whatsoever. | ||
| So if I ask a good question in quantum mechanics, I have the same property that I do when I ask a good question in classical mechanics. | ||
| I get a definite answer. | ||
| There's no probability. | ||
| When I ask a bad question in quantum mechanics... | ||
| Instead of, like classical mechanics says, you know, screw off. | ||
| I'm not answering that. | ||
| That's ridiculous. | ||
| It's a bad question. | ||
| Quantum mechanics says, you really want to ask me a bad question? | ||
| All right. | ||
| I'll give you maybe this answer and maybe that answer, and here's the probability distribution that I'll actually give you either of those two answers. | ||
| And what's more, I'll even kick it into the state that you asked about. | ||
| So for example, if you ask, where is that wave concentrated? | ||
| So like, let's say this is my coffee cup, and I drop a little drop in the center of it. | ||
| That creates a circular wave that radiates out. | ||
| And I say, where is the wave concentrated? | ||
| Well, at one second it hits the coffee mug, let's say it's a big coffee cup, and at one second after that it's concentrated again in the center. | ||
| So that becomes a good question only when the wave becomes re-concentrated in the center of the cup, right? | ||
| But if that wave were a quantum wave, I could ask, where is the wave concentrated? | ||
| And with equal probability, suddenly the wave will concentrate at some point along the circle that represents the wave. | ||
| So what would your answer be then? | ||
| Well, the point would be it'll concentrate at one of these points around the circle at random with equal probability and suddenly the wave will concentrate randomly when it's a quantum question. | ||
| So this is why quantum mechanics is so confusing. | ||
| Quantum physics is so confusing to people. | ||
| Because they hear that and they go, okay, this is... | ||
| It is confusing. | ||
| This went in my head like jello. | ||
| Well, that's the thing. | ||
| But the point of if I have a wave and I slow it down, I can look at a wave in a coffee mug. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I can see that if I ask where is the wave concentrated, you would say it's concentrated at like half an inch out from the center of the cup. | ||
| Say, no, no, not what ring is it concentrated or what exact point? | ||
| It's not concentrated at an exact point. | ||
| But that wave in quantum mechanics, which is not concentrated at an exact point, behaves differently when I ask a bad question. | ||
| So the point that I'm trying to get across is, Good questions have exactly the same properties in classical mechanics and quantum mechanics. | ||
| There's no introduction to probability theory. | ||
| The weird question is why is quantum mechanics answering bad questions? | ||
| Well, maybe even weirder question is Not just why. | ||
| Is quantum mechanics in an adolescent state of understanding? | ||
| I mean, is it part of the problem that they don't know enough yet? | ||
| And they're trying to, like, explain what they do know, what they can prove on paper. | ||
| And for a person like me, like, well, what do you know? | ||
| And they're like, well, we know probabilities. | ||
| We know this, we know that. | ||
| And a person like me who doesn't have any studying in it just goes, ugh. | ||
| What does that mean? | ||
| That's great. | ||
| So let's say we were having a conversation about genetics and we were looking only at the DNA and we didn't see epigenetics in terms of methylation patterns. | ||
| Then you'd shove everything onto DNA and maybe you had no concept of development. | ||
| And the model would work up to a point. | ||
| It would explain why you have blue eyes or brown eyes, but it wouldn't explain all sorts of other things. | ||
| And so now – then you overdevelop that model. | ||
| So I think that what you're saying is really Einstein's intuition, which is – I'm not saying – Einstein, I'm not saying that this is wrong. | ||
| I'm saying this is incomplete. | ||
| And then when we finally get the answer, we're going to say, oh, that's why we used to think of it in those crazy terms. | ||
| So back to gauge theory, gauge symmetry. | ||
| What the hell is that? | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, here's the craziest thing. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| There is a very confusing visual image of the fundamental unit that you need to appreciate what gauge symmetry is all about. | ||
| And I had Jamie load it up under the tab called Planet Hopf. | ||
| H-O-P-F? H-O-P-F. What the fuck am I looking at? | ||
| You are looking at the most important object in the universe. | ||
| What? | ||
| That looks like some trippy screensaver on your laptop. | ||
| Take another puff, my friend, because it's worth it. | ||
| This is, what you're looking at, is a principal fiber bundle. | ||
| And it's the earth. | ||
| Those are the continents I'm looking at. | ||
| That's the cool part about it, which is This is very confusing to figure out what you're looking at, but it's finite. | ||
| In other words, if we stay for an hour or two on this and we actually answer all your questions, you will actually know what a principal bundle is and you will know the arena in which gauge theory exists. | ||
| For folks at home that are just listening and they go, what the fuck are these guys talking about? | ||
| What is the name of this video, Jamie? | ||
| It's not a video. | ||
| It's a small file on a page. | ||
| I typed in Planet Hopf and it was the first thing that showed up on math.toronto.edu. | ||
| Okay, so Planet H-O-P-F for anybody who wants to look at this. | ||
| If you're just listening and you have no idea why I'm freaking out. | ||
| This was done by a friend of mine named Dror Barnaton. | ||
| I actually coded the same thing up. | ||
| Strangely enough, didn't do as brilliant a job of coloring it. | ||
| This looks amazing, by the way. | ||
| So, okay. | ||
| What you're looking at is a two-dimensional sphere that is the surface of the Earth where an extra circle is included at every point on the surface of that sphere, which you're now visualizing. | ||
| And that extra circle, which would be called the fiber, When you take the totality of all of those circles together, one for each point on the surface of the sphere, they create something called a three-sphere. | ||
| That is all the points that are one unit of distance away from the origin in four-dimensional space. | ||
| So that three-dimensional sphere is the analog of a two-dimensional sphere sitting in three-dimensional space. | ||
| So think about a caramel apple. | ||
| If you've ever made caramel apples, you get a disc of caramel and you wrap it around the sphere that is the apple surface, right? | ||
| So this is the three-dimensional version of caramel wrapped around the three-dimensional sphere sitting in four-dimensional space. | ||
| Do you understand any of this, Jamie? | ||
| I'm trying. | ||
| Well, look, dude, it's totally trippy, right? | ||
| And so we're not going to get it completely during this session. | ||
| I think I lack the tools. | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| We lack the time. | ||
| So the first thing is, you are finding out that one of your friends thinks this is the most important object in the universe, and you've never even heard of it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Much less know that there's one visual example. | ||
| What the fuck? | ||
| How's this happening now? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I know. | |
| Exactly. | ||
| It does look fucking crazy. | ||
| Well, okay, this is what was discovered in the mid-1970s as the connection between mathematics and what we call differential geometry and the discipline of particle theory. | ||
| So two guys, Jim Simons, now the world's most successful hedge fund manager, and C.N. Yang, a person who might arguably be the world's first or second greatest living theoretical physicist, had a lunch seminar. | ||
| And they said, why don't we figure out how do we talk to each other? | ||
| And what they found out is they both had developed a version of this picture. | ||
| Independently. | ||
| Independently. | ||
| So it was the Rosetta Stone that... | ||
| Unleashed a revolution. | ||
| So when Lawrence Krauss was talking to you about gauge theory, he was saying things about chess boards and you color it white and you color it black. | ||
| It's super confusing to me. | ||
| I would rather your people be confused about an actual example of the object on which we do gauge theory that you can visually see. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Now, if I started to tell you what gauge theory is, it's pretty simple. | ||
| So here's a description I never hear anyone say. | ||
| When you're doing differential calculus, I don't know if you remember differential calculus. | ||
| You're trying to figure out the slopes of lines, the instantaneous rise over the run. | ||
| So that always makes sense to people. | ||
| Okay, I figure out how fast it's going up versus how fast it's going across. | ||
| But a question arises, which is, where do you measure the rise from? | ||
| So for example, if I say, what is the height of Mount Everest? | ||
| Jamie will say. | ||
| 35,000? | ||
| Yeah, something like that. | ||
| Something crazy like that, right? | ||
| Let's just go with 1,000 and say base. | ||
| We haven't got an internet connection. | ||
| Let's take a guess. | ||
| What do you think it is? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I can't remember. | ||
| I want to say it's 35,000. | ||
| What do you think? | ||
| I thought it was 29,000. | ||
| 29,029. | ||
| What's the highest? | ||
| What's the highest one? | ||
| Is it K2? K2 is the second, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is it? | |
| Is Everest the highest? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay, so Everest. | ||
| So 29, what did you say? | ||
| 29? | ||
|
unidentified
|
29, 029. 029. Above what? | |
| Sea level? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Where is Mount Everest located? | ||
| The Himalayas. | ||
| Tibet. | ||
| What sea? | ||
| There's no ocean there, sir. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So, like we snuck in. | ||
| It's above sea level, and there's no ocean. | ||
| So we start from the center of the Earth. | ||
| We have this structure called the geoid. | ||
| Which is the interpolation of sea level as if the earth was only ocean and there was no tide. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And as if there's some sort of a... | ||
| So we snuck in the reference level. | ||
| That's my point. | ||
| We teach these kids to repeat why it's 29,000 and change above sea level and there's no sea. | ||
| So that reference level is the magic of gauge theory. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Which is that we measure the rise over the run based on a custom level. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right? | |
| So, a level that we all agree upon. | ||
| So, for example, let's imagine that you and I are in some country experiencing hyperinflation, right? | ||
| And I'm your boss. | ||
| And you say, dude, I need a raise. | ||
| I say, well, look, I've told you I would hire you for, you know, 10,000 dinars a month. | ||
| And you say, yeah. | ||
| I said, well, your salary is constant. | ||
| I took the derivative of it. | ||
| I've paid you $10,000 last month, $10,000 this month. | ||
| So you're getting the same amount. | ||
| Derivative equals zero. | ||
| It's constant salary. | ||
| Now you have to come back at me in calculus and you say, no, I don't like your notion of the derivative because what you're doing is you're measuring the absolute number of dinars that you're paying me. | ||
| But what I want to do is I want to measure it in purchasing power because I'm losing money every month that you don't increase my salary. | ||
| So I now come up with a version of the calculus in which my salary is not constant because it's being measured relative to purchasing power rather than absolute units. | ||
| That's gauge theory, is that you're bringing in a reference level That does the differentiation. | ||
| So you're measuring rise over run by customizing the problem. | ||
| So these were two different applications of the calculus. | ||
| The cheating employer says, I want to go with constant dinars. | ||
| The gifted employee says, not so fast. | ||
| I know gauge theory. | ||
| I want to use a custom reference level, which is purchasing power. | ||
| So it's like sneaking the geoid into Tibet to measure Everest. | ||
| I've got my custom level. | ||
| Does this make sense to you? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It makes sense, right? | ||
| But now explain it. | ||
| Say what he said. | ||
| We would need a new reference of what you want to measure, a new conversation, to have a flat level, I guess. | ||
| It would be really difficult for me to recall a day from now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Maybe. | |
| Lay off the weed. | ||
| No, it's not the weed. | ||
| That might help. | ||
| No, the weed might help. | ||
| I might pop a mushroom cap and see what's up. | ||
| It's still... | ||
| In reference to quantum physics, like how you would use gauge symmetry. | ||
| Let's look at some more cool stuff with the visual cortex, because everything that we can do visually should inform what we can do linguistically. | ||
| So you should push everything into the visual realm that you can. | ||
| What do you mean by that? | ||
| Well, I just showed you the hop vibration, which is the only... | ||
| In some sense, the only mature picture I can show you of a principal vibration in geometry or physics that is honest and has the full complexity. | ||
| It's got a certain kind of knottedness to it. | ||
| It's got something that we would call curvature. | ||
| And it is visualizable. | ||
| And so it would be better that we spent a day or two on this most important object, which we think reality is based around, and that you visually got comfortable with it. | ||
| And then you said, okay, now tell me again what gauge symmetry is. | ||
| And then instead of Lawrence talking about this chessboard and the colors and all this stuff by analogy, you'd actually be seeing gauge theory visually. | ||
| Like I could program a computer and have done so. | ||
| To show you visually what a gauge theory is. | ||
| And it takes some time to sort of understand what the trippy pictures are. | ||
| But let's bring up the Escher staircase. | ||
| And Jamie has a nice wrinkle on this that instead of using MC Escher's staircase, he's got this animated guy who just keeps going down. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Now what's going on with those stairs? | ||
| Now the stairs are sort of an optical illusion because obviously it can't just keep going down. | ||
| But then you build these systems like rock, paper, scissors. | ||
| What's the best thing to throw in rock, paper, scissors? | ||
| Well, it depends on what you throw. | ||
| Well, but we should be able to agree that rock is better than scissors. | ||
| Rock is better than scissors, but paper is better than rock. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So you go around that thing and now the point is that you get to like, rock is much better than rock! | ||
| That seems crazy. | ||
| Now that concept would be what we would call holonomy. | ||
| The weird sentence, rock is better than rock because of that going around the loop. | ||
| Why rock is better than rock? | ||
| I don't get it. | ||
| Rock is better than scissors. | ||
| Scissors is better than paper. | ||
| Paper is better than rock. | ||
| So by transitivity, rock is therefore better than rock because you went around the loop and came back to rock. | ||
| It's like MMA math. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or if you're changing currencies and you don't spend any of it because you keep using your credit card, by the time you come home you have more money than when you left because the exchange rates did something so that when you changed into each currency you somehow got richer. | ||
| But by saying rock is better than rock, you're denying the fact they're exactly the same. | ||
| Well, no. | ||
| You're not addressing it. | ||
| You just want to continue the same. | ||
| That's the linguistic fallacy, right? | ||
| So the idea that this system here, so those stairs in gauge theory would be these reference levels for the derivative. | ||
| And you can have situations where the reference levels don't knit flatly together, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so, by virtue of that, we would say that the system has curvature. | ||
| Curvature is the Escherness of these better than transitive statements. | ||
| Darrell Bock What we're looking at, folks, for people who are just listening, we're looking at, if you've never seen those Escher etches, those sketches, they're very strange because what there are is a bunch of staircases that appear to always be going downhill, even if one of them is above the other one. | ||
| It's very strange. | ||
| Peter Robinson Very strange. | ||
| And this one, we're watching an animated guy roll down this staircase constantly, even though it really looks like somehow or another it must go up somewhere, but you don't ever see it going up. | ||
| But it's also a factor of the illusion of perspective and how it's drawn and playing games with lines. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| But... | ||
| If you do this very weird experiment, which we didn't know about until the late 50s, called the Aronoff-Bohm experiment, if you run an electric current through a wire that's insulated, it appears not to have any electromagnetic field outside of the insulation. | ||
| However, if you do some sort of quantum interference experiment, you can tell that there's current going through because it affects the phase shift, let's say, of an electron orbiting that insulated electromagnetic system. | ||
| So nobody thought that that was going to happen because they thought, well, an insulator would keep... | ||
| We thought the electromagnetic field is what determines the shift in the electron. | ||
| But it's insulated, so there is no electromagnetic field to worry about. | ||
| It turned out that it wasn't the electromagnetic field alone. | ||
| It was some previous geometric concept, which was called the electromagnetic potential, that determined something about the phase shift. | ||
| So this Escher staircase, in the case of electromagnetism, it's like the photons are the analog of those steps. | ||
| They're partially what determine the derivative operators, these reference levels, and again, in our discussion of the, am I paying you the right amount in a hyperinflationary economy? | ||
| So all of these things, you're trying to figure out, well, that's an optical illusion, but that effect actually occurs in some systems not as an optical illusion. | ||
| Yes, right? | ||
| So this weirdness It requires a fair amount in terms of either study of math or learning visualizations. | ||
| But there's no way to achieve it in my experience with linguistic communications. | ||
| Like, all the stuff that gets said about, you know, the universe is expanding or let me tell you what a gauge theory is and why, there's a reason it's confusing. | ||
| It's because it doesn't make any effing sense. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I see what you're saying. | ||
| Sort of. | ||
| So this is like what Feynman said. | ||
| If you think you know quantum physics, you don't know quantum physics? | ||
| Well, there's some of that. | ||
| One of the most important things in the world is this thing called a spinner. | ||
| Like the electrons and the protons correspond to things called spinners. | ||
| And the average person has no idea that spinners exist. | ||
| What's more, Spinners have a property that when I tell it to you linguistically won't make any sense. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Let's do this with coffee. | ||
| Hit me with it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Thank you, sir. | ||
| Perfect. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Now here's the problem. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Hold your cup. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| From the bottom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| And here's the first challenge. | ||
| Without spilling it, I want you, and without readjusting your grip on the bottom of your cup, I want you to turn your cup 360 degrees. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| Turn, your fingers should not change on the cup. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Turn the cup 360 degrees without spilling it and try to take a sip. | ||
| Okay, that didn't work. | ||
| No. | ||
| Now, without coming back, how would you take a sip? | ||
| If I got it all the way around that way? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Mr. Jiu-Jitsu man. | ||
| I would have to... | ||
|
unidentified
|
I would have to help myself. | |
| No, no, you're going to do it? | ||
| All right, you ready? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay, here we go. | ||
| Are you going to go around a circle? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm going to do 360. Okay. | |
| Right. | ||
| Now, I'm screwed if I don't bring it back underneath. | ||
| Oh, I see. | ||
| So that system required 720 degrees of rotation unexpectedly. | ||
| Oh, you just keep going. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Now, the idea that there are objects that don't come back to themselves under 360 degrees of rotation but require 720 is probably something you've never thought about before in your life. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But without that, you wouldn't have the polyexclusion principle. | ||
| You wouldn't have the stability of matter. | ||
| And this thing is called the Philippine wine dance. | ||
| Jamie, do you want to... | ||
| That's not very seductive, Joe. | ||
| It seems like some very odd ethnic dance. | ||
| Yeah, but maybe you could do 11th Planet Jiu-Jitsu. | ||
| Here we go. | ||
| So this spinner is one of the coolest, most important objects anywhere, and it was discovered to be important in physics by a guy named Paul Dirac. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right? | |
| It's fun. | ||
| Okay, so this 720 theory is entirely responsible for the world that we live in. | ||
| This is so bizarre to watch this in animation. | ||
| And nobody knows about it. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Like, unless you're hanging out with physicists... | ||
| They don't tell you that electromagnetism has to do with the fact that there's a secret circle at every point in space and time that's invisible to you. | ||
| They don't tell you that there's stuff that requires 720 degrees of rotation. | ||
| They just say mind-blowing stuff about... | ||
| Whoa! | ||
| So what is happening in this 720 degrees of rotation in the quantum world? | ||
| There's an object that is requiring this just the way the cup arm system requires 720 degrees of rotation. | ||
| What object is this? | ||
| It's called a spinner. | ||
| And that spinner is how we model the electron, the neutrino, quarks. | ||
| All that is spinorial matter. | ||
| Sir? | ||
| That's a good long pause. | ||
| I like it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And where does this fit in in our model of the universe? | ||
| Like, what is the function of this? | ||
| Why is it there? | ||
| What is it? | ||
| How do we know it's there? | ||
| Well, we know it's there because when Dirac – so there was this problem with like the Schrodinger equation. | ||
| The Schrodinger equation takes one derivative in terms of the direction of time and takes two derivatives in the direction of all the spatial directions. | ||
| But because Einstein told us that space and time are woven together, For the theory to be relativistic, you need the same number of derivatives of time as of space, because space-time is sort of one kind of semi-unified object. | ||
| All right, that means you either have to boost the number of derivatives of time up to two to match the two derivatives in the directions of space, or you have to knock the two derivatives in the spatial directions down to one derivative to get it to be equal. | ||
| Now, one direction gets you to something called the Klein-Gordon equation. | ||
| What Dirac did is he took a square root of the Klein-Gordon equation to get these spinners. | ||
| So he had these numbers. | ||
| He didn't understand at first that he was going to get kicked into this world of spinners. | ||
| He came up with a square root equation in which A times B, thought to be numbers, was not equal to B times A. It was like equal to the negative of B times A. So it was like what two numbers, when you multiply them, matter in which order? | ||
| It wasn't numbers. | ||
| It was matrices. | ||
| So this was one of the great insights, you know, rival to Einstein in terms of the depth of what it told us about the universe. | ||
| Most of us haven't really heard of Paul Dirac. | ||
| We don't realize that he has one of the three most important equations in physics. | ||
| Now, when you say three most important, important in how it's applicable to everyday life? | ||
| Or important in how it's given us an understanding in quantum physics? | ||
| Or important in how its understanding is significant to quantum physicists? | ||
| We're talking about bedrock reality. | ||
| Like, you and I are having a conversation, if you're a Matrix fan, in what we might call the construct. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| What is the construct made of? | ||
| So, the way I do it is, I think of it as a newspaper story. | ||
| There's where and when did it happen, there was who and what was involved, and there's how and why. | ||
| So where and when is space and time, clearly. | ||
| The who and the what, to me, let's say the who is the spinorial stuff. | ||
| It's like electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks, the stuff that we're made of. | ||
| And then you and I are only able to see each other because we're passing photons back and forth, which are force particles. | ||
| They're not spinorial. | ||
| They come back to themselves after 360 degrees. | ||
| They don't require 720. So this is sort of the, you know, if you were going to go to a play, you'd have the dramatic personnel of the play given to you at the beginning. | ||
| So this is what this universe is. | ||
| It's a story about space and time, where and when, about what is in that, you know, like who are the players and what equipment are they using? | ||
| That's like bosons and fermions. | ||
| And then there's the how and the why, which is the equations and the Lagrangians that govern the rules of play. | ||
| So, for example, if you and I go to the beach and we've got a ball and a net and you think we're going to play volleyball and we actually – somebody says, no, no, we're going to play CPAC tukro, which is like volleyball played with the feet in a martial arts style, which is awesome. | ||
| Yeah, we showed a video on that recently. | ||
| I believe it was from Thailand or Bali or something. | ||
| Yeah, they're really good at it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Amazing. | |
| It's amazing. | ||
| It's like ballet, martial arts, soccer, volleyball happening in one thing. | ||
| We should do this as a nation. | ||
| That's a different set of rules for a ball and a net and two teams that you could have done it one way as volleyball and you could have done it another way as CPAC tuck row where you're using your feet and not your hands. | ||
| So that's sort of the breakdown of what a physics theory is. | ||
| You've got to tell me where and when. | ||
| You've got to tell me what's in the game. | ||
| You've got to tell me what the rules are. | ||
| And that's what this place is. | ||
| And so theoretical physics... | ||
| Is the most interesting of all of these fields to me. | ||
| Not because it speaks to us about our daily lives. | ||
| Because it speaks to us about, well, where are we? | ||
| Where is this thing taking place? | ||
| So it seems to me that there's a small number of people that are studying this stuff. | ||
| That are getting past biology. | ||
| They're getting past... | ||
| Gravity, climate change, all those different variables that we're constantly dealing with. | ||
| And they're getting to the very things that make everything. | ||
| And what is it under the wiring? | ||
| Lift up the board. | ||
| What's going on in here? | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's like getting to a computer down to the zero and one logic gates. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So that thing... | ||
| We've got three or four equations. | ||
| We've got three or four different kinds of objects in the system. | ||
| We seem to be, and people are going to not like what I'm about to say, but screw them, we seem to be almost at the end. | ||
| Like, these equations are so beautiful, they're so tight, that it's almost most mysterious because it feels like this thing, like a movie that ended prematurely. | ||
| How so? | ||
| Well, when we found the Higgs particle at the LHC, there wasn't anything left that needed to close to explain the system. | ||
| We know that there's dark matter out there that we don't understand. | ||
| We know that there's dark energy out there that we don't understand because of astronomical observations. | ||
| But all the stuff that we know about, when you look at it and collide it at high energies and figure out what mutates into what, there's nothing missing anymore. | ||
| So it's like you've got this odd thing where everything got very, very simple, very unified. | ||
| And it felt like we were going to get one or two more giant unifications and the whole thing would be tied up with a bow. | ||
| And right now, we just don't have anything that is needed to close the system. | ||
| So, for example, when you have radioactive carbon decay... | ||
| What you see is that one of the neutrons flips into being a proton, and it spits out an electron when it does that, right? | ||
| So it's like a transnucleon. | ||
| It shifts what it is. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That electron doesn't carry off enough energy to explain how energy would be conserved. | ||
| There was something missing. | ||
| So this guy Wolfgang Pauli said, I bet there's a particle that's neutral so we can't see it, that we won't leave a track in a cloud chamber. | ||
| It won't have any effect that we can see electromagnetically. | ||
| But it's carrying away some of the energy because I'm not going to give up on conservation of energy just because this particular process doesn't seem to conserve it. | ||
| There was this sneaky particle that was spiriting away some of the energy of the system that couldn't be seen because it didn't interact electromagnetically, and it didn't interact according to the strong force. | ||
| The only thing you could use to trap it would be the weak force, and the weak force was so weak that it was very hard to see it. | ||
| Okay, well, there's no neutrino that I know of left to find. | ||
| There's no thing that's missing. | ||
| In our standard model. | ||
| And I'm just not satisfied, nobody's satisfied that the play is over. | ||
| Why would the play be over just because we've discovered all the neutrinos? | ||
| Well, no, it's that we had an easy job when there was stuff that was missing. | ||
| Then you just hypothesize, I bet there's some invisible thing that's carrying away some stuff. | ||
| Let's go look for something that's hard to see. | ||
| So they find it. | ||
| They find the Higgs. | ||
| So they find the Higgs, they find the neutrinos, they find... | ||
| Quark, gluon, plasma. | ||
| I wasn't going to go there, but I was going to say that they found alternate generations of matter. | ||
| So you and I are made out of the first generation of matter, but there could be alternate Joe Rogan made out of second generation matter or third generation. | ||
| We don't know of any generations beyond these two. | ||
| Hold up. | ||
| What are you talking about? | ||
| So like the electron has a relative called the muon that behaves exactly like the electron except it's heavier. | ||
| And the up and down quarks that make up protons and neutrons have relatives called strange quarks and charmed quarks. | ||
| So there's like a second copy of Lego that has all the same properties as the first copy of Lego except it's at a different mass level. | ||
| So it's just denser, but it's an almost identical copy. | ||
| Yeah, nobody wanted this thing. | ||
| So the famous joke is that there was this guy, Isadora Robbie, who was like a, you know, kind of an ethnic Jew in New York. | ||
| And when they found the second generation of matter, he responded as if it was a group... | ||
| deli and he said who ordered that you know and so that's like that's the joke in physics who ordered that nobody knew there was a second generation and then like then they hit their so for the head you know there's a third one too everybody's just like what why where are these things coming from so the fact that you don't know this like what a profound disconnect that you're having all these physicists on the show and these are the basic secrets that we're These are rock solid. | ||
| This isn't speculative multiverse string theory, woo-woo, Schrodinger's cat stuff. | ||
| This is ground truth. | ||
| And we don't know it. | ||
| And we don't know it because nobody will show you a picture of the Hoppe vibration. | ||
| Or there's a concept called the group, which is how we think about symmetry, that no mathematician or physicist can go a day without talking about groups almost. | ||
| And we act as if it doesn't need to be taught in high school. | ||
| It'll blow your mind. | ||
| We're not going to teach you that groups even exist. | ||
| So we've built the professional version of the subject around objects that we don't even tell you exist when you're studying in school. | ||
| So if you think about the portal story... | ||
| In childhood, there's this story about either it's a rabbit hole or a looking glass or a wardrobe or platform nine and a half or whatever these things are. | ||
| I don't know what the Harry Potter version of it is, but how do I get from the world that I'm in To this new amazing world and even find out that it's there. | ||
| And that's what I think theoretical physics has failed to do. | ||
| It hasn't built a portal for most people to even understand what the issues are, what are the objects, what is the game, how close are we to understanding what existence itself is, which I think we're very, very close. | ||
| And the square root, this was what I was going to say before about Dirac, is like the most profound object in mathematics to me. | ||
| And the reason is, is that when I ask you what is the square root of negative 1, that is a question that can be posed entirely within the familiar. | ||
| So the real numbers, you're comfortable, you know, you owe money, you have money, so I need plus 1 and minus 1. Square root, understand what times itself equals my number. | ||
| And when you say what's the square root of negative 1, there's no answer inside of the real line. | ||
| But there is inside of this extension called the complex numbers. | ||
| And so it's like you're in flatland and you're trying to figure out, is there anything beyond flatland? | ||
| So the great thing about the square root is it's a question you can ask in flatland that gets you out of flatland. | ||
| Jesus, you confused the shit out of me. | ||
| Are you with this? | ||
| I understood that part of it, yeah. | ||
| I understood that part. | ||
| The complex numbers thing got weird when you're like an algebra. | ||
| So when I'm taking rotations of the coffee cup where my arm isn't involved, I say, okay, is there a square root of that rotation? | ||
| What does that even mean, dude? | ||
| Alright, well now I put my arm into the system and my arm plus coffee cup gives you spinners. | ||
| Like, oh dude, I did not even know that spinners were here. | ||
| I did not know that any object required 720 degrees of rotation. | ||
| So the cup arm system, we just exhibited it. | ||
| You don't need to learn Clifford algebras or all of this extra jazz that would get you to spinners mathematically. | ||
| But you need to figure out, how do I discover the hidden world? | ||
| And think about this from the perspective of ayahuasca. | ||
| Somebody takes ayahuasca And they have no idea that their brain is capable of this alternate state or LSD or 5-MeO DMT. All of these things are like panic rooms in the mind. | ||
| Where if you lived in a house for 20 years, you think you know your house. | ||
| And then one day you pull an old musty book off the shelf and suddenly the bookshelf swings open. | ||
| And it's like, holy crap, there's like a second home inside of my home. | ||
| Well, that's a lot of what psychedelics are like. | ||
| Psychedelics are like square roots in that they're portals. | ||
| They can get you from the place that you know into a place that you never imagined could exist. | ||
| Do you think that the teaching of groups and a lot of these concepts in high school would Facilitate a better understanding of it from the general public in adulthood? | ||
| Hell, yes. | ||
| Hell yeah. | ||
| And it would... | ||
| What do you think is the resistance to this? | ||
| Is it just too complex or not applicable to jobs? | ||
| You know, is that the idea behind it? | ||
| It's not something that you use in everyday life so that it's just too weird to think about the fact that there's cousins to the electron that are fat? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's much worse than this. | ||
| Bodybuilder cousin to the... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You want to bulk up and get made out of strange quarks? | ||
| Yeah, one of your cousins is made out of lead. | ||
| No, I think it's much worse than this. | ||
| I think that, first of all, people are terrified of just how smart children are. | ||
| And the differences between children have to be buried. | ||
| So some children are great at abstraction. | ||
| And a lot of the kids who are great at abstraction are learning disabled, according to the teaching system. | ||
| Now, I personally think that most learning disabilities of a particular type are actually teaching disabilities. | ||
| People don't know how to teach the smartest kids. | ||
| And groups and things? | ||
| You're going to lose some people because of the level of abstraction, but you're going to get other people who have never been able to buy a base hit in mathematics suddenly start overperforming. | ||
| So the problem is that when you teach this stuff, It's very disruptive to notions of the hierarchy. | ||
| Have you thought about what are the causes of these different levels of perception? | ||
| Is it education? | ||
| Is it genetics? | ||
| Is it environmental? | ||
| Is it some sort of a chemical balance of the mind? | ||
| What do you think causes people to be more perceptive to some of these concepts? | ||
| It's a good question. | ||
| So the thing I just showed you with the planet Earth in a way that you've never seen it before, I know of only two people who've ever created that image. | ||
| I'm one of them. | ||
| Dror Barnatan is the other. | ||
| Maybe there are many more, but I've never heard or met them. | ||
| The number of people who first of all know what the hop vibration is, I would guess is if you really deeply know what it is, a few thousand people in the world. | ||
| So if none of those people are gifted at trying to visualize or none of them care, none of them program computers, the number of people who could present that to the world is so small. | ||
| It's such a tiny priestly class that your odds of getting anyone figuring out how to make this understandable are very small. | ||
| So we're talking about a very small priesthood, most of whom are too busy trying to do new research to want to care to communicate, many of whom are not gifted communicators. | ||
| Many of us realize that we don't fully understand these things. | ||
| I mean, I can show you spinners mathematically on a page. | ||
| But if you ask me in my darkest moments, do I believe that man really knows what spinners are? | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| There's all this stuff that to me looks like the monolith in 2001. | ||
| It's just too freaky. | ||
| It comes out of nowhere and it's at the core of reality. | ||
| Like if you really want to blow your mind... | ||
| Look at a tiny number, tiny collection of these objects, principal vibrations, spinners, exceptional lead groups, this E8 248 dimensional monster. | ||
| What is that? | ||
| There's a 248-dimensional set of symmetries which seems to live only to be the symmetries of itself, where everything else seems to live to symmetrize something else. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And... | |
| You following this? | ||
| We might have to spark that joint back up again. | ||
| Let's do that. | ||
| You know, there's this thing called the Titz-Freudenthal magic square after this guy named Jacques Titz. | ||
| And... | ||
| These guys figured out how to generate these sets of symmetries of dimension 52, 78, 133, and 248. We don't know why they're there. | ||
| They're like the platypi and echidnas of the mathematical world. | ||
| They're just different. | ||
| They don't seem to relate to anything else that we know yet. | ||
| And that's what's so fascinating about them. | ||
| And these are discovered by people that are trying to figure out the nature of reality? | ||
| They're discovered by people trying to find more of these bizarre equations? | ||
| Who's discovering these and what's the impetus? | ||
| Well, you ask very natural questions. | ||
| You've probably seen... | ||
| You ever played Dungeons and Dragons as a kid? | ||
| Luckily, no! | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well, you were beating people up. | ||
| I was now beating. | ||
| Stop it. | ||
| I've seen one video. | ||
| Anyway, you had these die, right? | ||
| You had like the cube die, the tetrahedral die. | ||
| What is this, Jamie? | ||
| Beyond space time, 8D surface paradise. | ||
| This is my arch nemesis when I was telling this story last time during Sober October. | ||
| Yeah, Garrett Lisi. | ||
| How he took me into the jungle to meet this sort of differential geometric warlord who lives in the north of Maui. | ||
| In the jungle? | ||
| Yeah, far from... | ||
| You don't remember this? | ||
| I do now. | ||
| Yeah, you cut off my story, man. | ||
| Did I? Yeah. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| That's alright. | ||
| Go for it. | ||
| Here we are again. | ||
| Put that back up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So... | |
| Whoa. | ||
| What is that? | ||
| Well, this is based on the eight-dimensional, I'm almost certain it's going to be based on the eight-dimensional root system. | ||
| So inside of the 248 dimensions, there's an eight-dimensional donut called a torus, like an eight-torus, and it generates this pattern. | ||
| And that pattern, in some sense, encodes the instructions for building the 248-dimensional object. | ||
| So somebody probably pushed an eight-dimensional thing into two dimensions for your viewing pleasure. | ||
| And does this accurate? | ||
| Like when you're looking at this, this image that we're seeing, does that make sense to you? | ||
| I mean, I can relate it to things that make sense to me. | ||
| If the idea is, you know, can I look at it the way I'd look at a barcode and say, oh, tied, unscented. | ||
| No. | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| But this is an accurate representation if you're looking at it in two dimensions. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So what I'm trying to say is, you don't even know to worry about this pattern. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because you've never heard that these things exist. | ||
| And this is like the closest that we come to, you know, genuine mysticism, where we have these objects. | ||
| If there are aliens, they know about E8. E8 are the aliens. | ||
| What? | ||
| E8 is the alien? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I've been... | ||
| I mean, we'll go to this later. | ||
| I don't want to interrupt your story again, but I have an idea. | ||
| So what I'm trying to get at is this is the majesty and mystery of being a mathematician or a physicist, these findings. | ||
| So what I was going to say about Dungeons& Dragons, you're given these dice where the normal die is always a cube, but the platonic solids, you can have an octahedron, tetrahedron, dodecahedron, icosahedron, all these things. | ||
| There's an analog of those five platonic solids in the next dimension up, which I think are called convex polytopes. | ||
| So each one of those objects has an analog one dimension up. | ||
| But it was found out in the late 1800s that there's a new platonic solid in dimension four called the 24-cell. | ||
| Do you want to bring up the 24-cell? | ||
| Let's find an animated video of somebody rotating this thing. | ||
| This is something that Plato knew nothing about. | ||
| We don't really understand what it's doing there in four dimensions. | ||
| These are like communications from the cosmos. | ||
| So this is like when Jodie Foster was in the movie Contact and they were getting them signals about how to make the time machine? | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| Or the portal machine? | ||
| Yeah, but this stuff just doesn't come with an instruction manual. | ||
| So part of it is you can prove that these things are there. | ||
| And you don't know why they're there. | ||
| And some of them touch everything and some of them have yet to touch almost anything. | ||
| And it's like a communication from pure design that there is so much beautiful structure and so much grace in the universe that we're just... | ||
| What the fuck is this doing here? | ||
| What is it? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, what is everything, right? | ||
| What is the whole thing? | ||
| No, I mean, look, if you accept three-dimensional space, or let's say this glass, right? | ||
| If you accept this glass, I understand that a circle can spin the glass. | ||
| A circle's worth of symmetries tells me what to do to spin the glass. | ||
| That's not that confusing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Why is there something that's the analog of a circle, where a circle I would call one-dimensional because it's got one degree of freedom, this thing is 248 dimensions. | ||
| And it doesn't seem to live to symmetrize, in the jargon we would say it doesn't have a defining representation of lower dimension. | ||
| So normally you have something of low dimension. | ||
| And you say, what are its symmetries? | ||
| And the symmetries are of higher dimension. | ||
| This thing seems like the first thing it wants to symmetrize is itself. | ||
| So it's kind of self-referential. | ||
| It's kind of onanistic. | ||
| So it's like a zero point of creation? | ||
| That's poetic language, and I would groove on that after 11 p.m., but I wouldn't call it that right now. | ||
| I would say it's like a – if I was trying to pick somebody up, hey, zero point of creation. | ||
| Right, that's a sexy word. | ||
| That's a sexy way of describing it. | ||
| But, like, if we're saying the Big Bang existed – And that means some point in the history of the universe it was this really tiny thing and it decided for whatever reason something happened and it became this enormous thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Possibly enormous thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| There had to be a point. | ||
| Where it started. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Allegedly. | ||
| So what I would say is we can competently take that story back to a point. | ||
| And then we have to say we don't really believe that we have any insight beyond that point. | ||
| But people want to go there anyway. | ||
| We absolutely know that it was tiny. | ||
| Yeah, it was small. | ||
| Like smaller than the head of a pit. | ||
| The whole thing. | ||
| I'm always uncomfortable saying something to settle, but you can say a lot of stuff about very early, very small, and that could turn out to be wrong. | ||
| Impossibly long ago, 14 billion years ago, in our minds, for a guy like you, mathematics, you see it in numbers on paper, it all computes, you see the numbers, 14 billion is a number that makes sense. | ||
| But conceptually, for a dummy like me, 14 billion is like, if I'm being honest, do you think I really have an accurate understanding of what 14 billion is? | ||
| No, but Steven Weinberg doesn't feel 14 billion either. | ||
| Right, but you know where 100 yards is. | ||
| You know 100 yards, right? | ||
| So you can feel that, right? | ||
| If I see 100 yards, I'm like, that's too far to shoot a bow. | ||
| You've got to get a little closer to be ethical. | ||
| So you have some kind of an intuition pump. | ||
| Well, you know distance. | ||
| It's a rational distance that you see on a daily basis. | ||
| 100 yards is a long distance. | ||
| A mile gets a little weird. | ||
| Like, is that a mile away? | ||
| How far is that? | ||
| Oh, it's six miles away? | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I didn't think it was that far. | ||
| There's weirdness in distance, right? | ||
| But when you get to 140 million miles, okay, I give up. | ||
| But you get to 14 billion years. | ||
| Yeah, I get fatigued by that stuff. | ||
| Some other people get energized, like, man, you have It's humbling. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But then there's the concept of infinite, right? | ||
| Like, this is one of the things that Krauss said, or maybe it was Sean Carroll, that said, it's really not that we know that we can see 14 billion years ago. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's like, but that's just as far back as we're capable of seeing right now. | ||
| And even if we did go further, the light is actually moving slower. | ||
| Like, you wouldn't be able to see it. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| So you have this thing about with the space-time metric, which is sort of how things feel like they're moving apart. | ||
| Einstein said four degrees of freedom plus rulers and protractors equals space-time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Right, so a space-time metric is a collection of rulers and protractors, so I can do length and angle, including length and the time direction. | ||
| And that generates a derivative operator, which we talked about before, which is rise-over-run relative to a custom reference level. | ||
| The custom reference levels generate the Escher staircase that we did, and that generates the curvature tensor, which generates gravity. | ||
| So, strangely, with all this kind of, like, Woo woo stuff that we've been doing. | ||
| We just came to a much better description I really appreciate that you're explaining this in a way that you hope that someone can understand. | ||
| Well, I'm not a physicist. | ||
| But you're explaining it very well. | ||
| The problem is, for someone like me, I lack the tools to put... | ||
| I don't have enough open slots for these concepts. | ||
| So it's like if you were explaining to me complex arguments in French, but I didn't speak French. | ||
| So you're saying, you know, bonjour means this, and then you're explaining all these other words, and then you've thrown it all together. | ||
| I'm like, what? | ||
| And then it's cultural references, and then you have to deal with the fact that there's, like, some historical precedent to certain types of behavior that I have to take into consideration because these are French people that have lived in this way. | ||
| I go, whoa. | ||
| Okay, but look. | ||
| That's nothing compared to what you're trying to do. | ||
| Let's drop some... | ||
| So you do this thing about like, well, for a meathead like me... | ||
| Well, I'm definitely a meathead. | ||
| Stop it, Joe. | ||
| Listen, I know me better than you know me. | ||
| That's true, but you're also less honest than you think on this particular topic. | ||
| It's part of your charm. | ||
| Now, look, when we hang out, we hang out usually in a comedy club or at somebody's house. | ||
| We don't say, hey, we're going to take the afternoon off and we're actually going to learn theoretical physics. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| So when I went to a... | ||
| I did stand-up for the first time, as I told you, in Arizona. | ||
| I wish I was there. | ||
| Oh, it was insane, dude. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I wish I was there for that. | |
| It was crazy. | ||
| Yeah, you're trying to explain fucking quarks to people. | ||
| There'd be some real humor in that if you could boil it down. | ||
| Yeah, three quirks go into a nuclear. | ||
| Yeah, there's like a way to do it. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| There's a way to do it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well, who was the guy who did the... | ||
| Some guy was doing... | ||
| Maybe it was Brian Callen who was doing quantum jokes. | ||
| What was he saying? | ||
| Do you remember? | ||
| I forgot. | ||
| He had a bunch of words that he did very, very quickly and it kind of hung together. | ||
| I was like, wait, what? | ||
| Yeah, that sounds like Brian. | ||
| He reads a lot. | ||
| He's a clever boy. | ||
| When I had to do my 10 minutes of stand-up, man, is that craft. | ||
| It's deep. | ||
| It's hard. | ||
| It's not just like telling jokes at a party. | ||
| You have to measure the way the audience's laugh comes, whether you're taking them along or you're going to divert. | ||
| All sorts of things that I never thought about before. | ||
| Do you know how you feel when you talk about the Hopf thing? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That it's a part of everything. | ||
| It's one of the most important things, and yet very few people know what it is. | ||
| Maybe a thousand people understand it on the whole world. | ||
| What's odd is that number is probably identical to the number of legitimate professional stand-up comedians in the world. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| Small. | ||
| When I say legitimate, I mean someone who can craft a new hour every two years, who does Netflix specials, who headlines all over the country, travel all over the world and do stand-up. | ||
| It's an insanely small number of humans. | ||
| And not only that, my guess is that the number of people that you think are at the very top of that craft, like when I really think about who really knows theoretical physics, It's tiny as fuck. | ||
| It's smaller than 50. Yep. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Guys that I would pay to see live or women that I'd pay to see live, it's less than 50. It's less than 50. Yeah. | ||
| And so part of our problem is that all of the stuff that humanity has developed... | ||
| I feel very vulnerable about that. | ||
| Theoretical physics has been faking that it's in a healthy state for a long time. | ||
| We are so vulnerable on the doorstep of actually cracking this puzzle, in my opinion. | ||
| Well, that's where our comparisons end, because pretty much anybody can do stand-up if you put enough time to it, if you're silly, if you figure out the craft. | ||
| But what you guys are doing is not just really rare, but also the barrier for entry, like the cost of entry, is exceptionally high. | ||
| Like, you have to spend an inordinate amount of time studying and understanding this stuff just to get to a base level of what you've been able to explain. | ||
| You've been able to explain, like, some really difficult concepts to the layperson that must have taken you fucking eons to learn and understand all your study of mathematics and of geometry and of all the... | ||
| Yeah, but I'm an imposter. | ||
| How so? | ||
| Well, I'm not a physicist. | ||
| Right, but you understand it. | ||
| Maybe you don't practice physics, but you understand it. | ||
| Well, no, it's something more audacious than that, which is that when you see a 10,000 hours only sign, only those who've done their 10,000 hours can come in. | ||
| My middle finger goes up. | ||
| I'm like, I bet it's not 10,000 hours. | ||
| Or if it is 10,000 hours, I'm willing to get 80% of the juice in that orange with like 10% of the effort. | ||
| Well, the 10,000 hours thing to me is, it's cute, but it doesn't factor in for phenoms. | ||
| There's a lot of people that come into anything, whatever it is, with some natural abilities that are pretty undeniable. | ||
| You know, that's a weird equation. | ||
| Take something very simple, like the harmonica. | ||
| Most people don't know that that sweet blues sound on a harmonica comes from not using it the way the manufacturer said, which is called straight harp, and using it instead the way African Americans figured it out, which is it's much cooler to base it around a hole that nobody was expecting to draw rather than for blow. | ||
| And that gives you a seventh chord that sounds like sweet blues music. | ||
| Oh, give me some of that. | ||
| Give me some of that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| I don't know how this will work. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That was You Gotta Move, by the way. | |
| So what's the traditional way of using it? | ||
| What would it sound like? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That would be Carmen. | |
| Boring as fuck. | ||
| White people music. | ||
| Boring as fuck. | ||
| White people music. | ||
| Goddammit, white people. | ||
| Carmen's alright. | ||
| But look, not my point. | ||
| Who knew when you get one of these things as a party favor as a kid... | ||
| There's not somebody who says, hey, don't do that thing where you put your mouth over it, I'll say, you know? | ||
| But who knew that that's the cooler sound? | ||
| Well, yeah, but the idea is that there's something called tongue blocking, there's something called cross harp, and there's something called the 1-4-5 progression with a scale that no music teacher ever taught you in grade school in piano. | ||
| All right, so there's four secrets. | ||
| And now, suddenly, the world opens up. | ||
| I mean... | ||
| When I opened for Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin invited me and he said, you know, why don't you play a minute worth of harmonica at the Masonic Theater? | ||
| So for 2,500 people, I became Dave Rubin's talking harmonica monkey. | ||
| So I opened for Jordan Peterson and I said, you know, rule number zero, life is too short not to play the harmonica. | ||
| Everyone should learn to play the harmonica or know why they're not doing it. | ||
| There's this great thing in the Cal Berkeley fight song, we'll win the game or know the reason why. | ||
| If you don't play the harmonica, it's so nice. | ||
| It's so simple. | ||
| So few people do it. | ||
| There's so small number of secrets. | ||
| You have to have a reason because I can feed myself. | ||
| I can get housing, shelter. | ||
| I can meet people anywhere in the world. | ||
| All I have to do is carry around a piece of plastic with some metal on it. | ||
| Or you could be annoying. | ||
| Like a lot of people are like, turn that fucking guy off. | ||
| Why is he playing that goddamn harmonica? | ||
| I don't want to hear that. | ||
| Put it back in your pocket. | ||
| You go to your next trip. | ||
| You're already tainted in these people's estimation. | ||
| This guy's a tension whore out here playing music. | ||
| The harmonica ruined my life. | ||
| What's worse? | ||
| A harmonica or a guy who brings a guitar and starts singing folk songs at a party? | ||
| Oh, the Animal House effect. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Beat him over the head with the guitar. | ||
| Yeah, but if he can shred, he's going to be fine. | ||
| It's great if you're looking to hear someone shred. | ||
| That's not... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| All of these things are like options. | ||
| They're financial options. | ||
| You can exercise them or you cannot exercise them. | ||
| You don't have to exercise them. | ||
| But, I mean, there's an equal number of things that people would say that are like the harmonica. | ||
| Like, you should be able to do slam poetry. | ||
| Everyone should be able to do slam poetry. | ||
| If you can't do slam poetry, I can feed myself. | ||
| I can do slam poetry. | ||
| I'll show up at a party and everyone wants to hear slam poetry. | ||
| Is that true? | ||
| You're just trying to beat me, Joe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're so adorable. | |
| It's fascinating to me that harmonicas are this little tiny thing that people... | ||
| There's not other ones, right? | ||
| Other things are like these big old trumpet-looking things. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Like a harmonica is this little thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Like how many little things do you blow that are that powerful in terms of the kind of music that it makes? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Isn't that weird? | ||
| It is weird. | ||
| There's no balls, right? | ||
| It's always that. | ||
| It's always that little candy bar-looking thing. | ||
| Like, there's nothing... | ||
| Like, no ball harmonica? | ||
| Is there anything comparable in terms of, like, musical instruments that is that little that has that kind of sound? | ||
| No, that's what it's optimized for. | ||
| But isn't that weird? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Like, there's tubas and there's other things that are similar, and then you get to, like, trombones and trumpets. | ||
| Everything kind of makes sense. | ||
| Then you got this little fucking thing, so a candy bar thing. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's a mouth harp. | ||
| A mouth harp. | ||
| Ooh, what's that other one? | ||
| They boing, noing, noing, noing, noing. | ||
| They used to use in those old-timey movies. | ||
| Is that what it's called? | ||
| Boing, noing, noing. | ||
| No, there's like a weird word for it. | ||
| There's a weird word for that thing. | ||
| Jaw harp. | ||
| Jaw harp? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Maybe I'm thinking of a complete... | ||
| Okay, that's one. | ||
| Yeah, that's another weird one. | ||
| Or you can play the spoons. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Spoons are good. | ||
| Well, how about that fucking Australian one where they blow into that big tube? | ||
| Didgeridoo. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Didgeridoo. | |
| Yeah, that one's the most ridiculous. | ||
| That is, like, how hard were those guys tripping when they came up with that sound? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Boy, oh, boy, oh. | |
| Why, why, why, why? | ||
| Well, that's like tube and throat singing, dude. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That was good. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| If you're on Haight-Ashbury and there's a dude... | ||
| And he's got one of them diggory-doos out and a fucking hat. | ||
| You're supposed to throw some money in there just out of respect. | ||
| This guy brought a goddamn diggory-do to the corner. | ||
| Well, you know, the coolest recent one. | ||
| That is crazy. | ||
| Give me some noise from this motherfucker. | ||
| That's 10 hours of it. | ||
| Just give me a little bit. | ||
| That is DMT music. | ||
| I know. | ||
| If you're tripping balls and somebody plays that, it'll take you to a new dimension that you've never accessed before. | ||
| It's got the paint on for it, too, and everything. | ||
| It looks like he's on a trip. | ||
| Actually, it's quite interesting. | ||
| The Santo Daime Church around the ayahuasca stuff has a lot of really interesting music to listen to. | ||
| It's straight. | ||
| It's kind of mind-blowing. | ||
| Well, there's also, I don't know if it's that one or something de vegetale, there's one of those similar Christian-based dimethyltryptamine, ayahuasca-type churches that they sing songs about Jesus. | ||
| They trip balls and sing songs about Jesus. | ||
| And what's really weird about DMT in particular, and I guess you could say the same of mushrooms, but mushrooms apparently when it synthesizes, it's real similar in chemical content to what dimethyltryptamine is. | ||
| I'm going to fuck this up, but I think it's NN-dimethyltryptamine is dimethyltryptamine, and then when it's synthesized, when the body processes Psilocybin, I think it produces something called 4-Fox-4-Aloxy-NN-dimethyltryptamine. | ||
| I think it's real close. | ||
| I might have fucked that up, but I think it's so close that it's like they're cousins. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So, there's something about music in these things. | ||
| And one of the best ways to get out of a trip, if you're really tripping balls with mushrooms, is to sing your way out of it. | ||
| Really? | ||
| You can sing your way out of a bad trip. | ||
| You can actually control the trip with good music. | ||
| And one of the things that's really constant with DMT is these Icaros that these shaman will sing. | ||
| And these Icaros with the thimbles and a little bit of drum and these really rhythmic singing, it makes the hallucination dance in a really obvious, tangible way. | ||
| It moves around itself and it changes and guides the trip. | ||
| Well, that's what I've... | ||
| My hypothesis has been that it's some sort of a... | ||
| There it is. | ||
| That's one right there. | ||
| This is one I've personally experienced. | ||
| I've actually tripped listening to this song. | ||
| And it was like these geometric patterns, these entities that seemed to be conscious, they were like moving around. | ||
| This is the guy. | ||
| This is the ayahuasquero. | ||
| This is the shaman blowing tobacco. | ||
| This is part of the ritual. | ||
| ritual they actually blow tobacco on you while you do that. | ||
| So this guy with just this little rattle and singing and sometimes there's actual singing not just whistling but there's like in their language this beautiful soft rhythmic sort of song and the hallucinations dance to this to the sound. | ||
| to this music. | ||
| Like they're supposed to dance to it, like they're a part of it. | ||
| It's not just that you're having music on top of the psychedelic experience, but that they merge. | ||
| They merge, and the psychedelic experience is 100% affected by this. | ||
| So it's not just that there's chemicals that are interacting with your brain. | ||
| You're doing something, too, by responding to that music, and then the music is doing something by enhancing the way your perception of this experience is, and all of it is dancing together like they belong together. | ||
| It's fascinating shit. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, my hypothesis has been that the music acts as a prosthesis to sort of lock you in because the experience is so powerful. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, maybe. | ||
| It's always a little bit weird. | ||
| Try to imagine somebody says, do you want a glass of scotch and a shaman to go with it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're like, what? | |
| You probably need one. | ||
| Someone at a bar that's like, we're going to drink this. | ||
| We're going to drink this with good intentions. | ||
| No one's going to be grabbing anybody's dick. | ||
| No one's getting rude here. | ||
| There'll be no wedgies. | ||
| Nothing rude will be said. | ||
| You will think for a good solid five seconds before any hasty moves. | ||
| Let's understand that we're going to get great benefit from this in terms of our ability to be loose and to be silly and to enjoy each other's company. | ||
| But if a demon comes out during this time, you must address this demon personally, on your own. | ||
| Don't pull the demon out and throw it at the party. | ||
| This is good stuff. | ||
| But that's what happens. | ||
| Bad drunks, they're throwing that demon at you. | ||
| That thing where they figured out that if you put a worm in the mezcal stuff, it would be a great marketing device north of the border. | ||
| Because you just tell some story. | ||
| So now we're going to open... | ||
| Is that just what that is? | ||
| I think it's a marketing gimmick. | ||
| And then what we do is we found our own tequila company. | ||
| It's so exclusive that you can only buy it if you also hire a shaman for the event. | ||
| We'll make tons of money. | ||
| Yeah, and what if the worm actually was psychedelic? | ||
| Like, what if there was a way we could genetically engineer a worm to be intensely psychedelic? | ||
| Like, the worm literally is made out of ayahuasca. | ||
| Why don't we put a toad in the mezcal? | ||
| Well, don't they do weird shit like that, where they'll take tomatoes and they'll use fucking frog DNA in the tomato to make it live longer? | ||
| Isn't there some weird shit they're already doing with... | ||
| Oh, the cool stuff is the green fluorescent protein stuff. | ||
| You can have glow-in-the-dark rabbits. | ||
| And fish. | ||
| Turkey makes these. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Let's get some glow-in-the-dark bunnies, man. | ||
| They can do that. | ||
| Right? | ||
| There is something like that, right? | ||
| Jamie, do you have glow-in-the-dark rabbits? | ||
| No, but I do have the genetically modified potato with frog genes to resist pathogens. | ||
| Yeah, what in the holy fuck? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, how weird is that? | ||
| GM potato uses frog gene to resist pathogens. | ||
| Like, that's real. | ||
| That's going on. | ||
| Can we do GFP rabbits? | ||
| So what were we on before this? | ||
| What were we talking about? | ||
| How we got to rabbits? | ||
| Making a tequila with a frog in it. | ||
| So what if we engineer that little worm to be like 100% DMT? 100% DMT worm. | ||
| You get down to that worm and whoever chugs to the bottom and chews on that worm just... | ||
| You immediately transform. | ||
| What the fuck am I watching? | ||
| These are these glowing rabbits? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That is so weird. | ||
| Dude, you've got hoverboards and archery stuff. | ||
| We need rabbits in this place. | ||
| We need glowing rabbits. | ||
| Here's a problem, man. | ||
| My kids have rabbits and they're cunts. | ||
| Those rabbits are little assholes. | ||
| They don't give a fuck about each other. | ||
| We have two of them. | ||
| It's so rude. | ||
| This is what happens. | ||
| They're both males, unfortunately. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Here's what happens when you get two male bunnies and you put them in a gigantic chicken coop. | ||
| They fuck each other up. | ||
| It's bunny UFC every day with these little assholes. | ||
| All they do is kick each other's ass. | ||
| They chase each other around this chicken coop and when they get a hold of each other, they bite each other and they kick each other. | ||
| They fuck each other up. | ||
| Because they're both boys, and they don't want a boy to be running shit. | ||
| Are these two bunnies fucking each other up? | ||
| Dude, this is what they do. | ||
| Bunnies are fucking ruthless to each other. | ||
| These two little assholes just chase each other all day long and beat the shit out of each other. | ||
| That's all they do. | ||
| Why don't you do commentary? | ||
| I'm not going to encourage their bad behavior. | ||
| One of them is actually missing. | ||
| Here's what happened. | ||
| Our chicken coop burnt down from the fire, but the chicken survived. | ||
| One of them got scorched. | ||
| They all got fucking PTSD. It's crazy. | ||
| I go near them. | ||
| But they're alive, right? | ||
| So we had to maneuver them and move them. | ||
| But one bunny's missing. | ||
| We found one bunny and one bunny's missing. | ||
| So I think it's better for the one bunny that survived and the one bunny that probably got jacked by an eagle or some shit. | ||
| That's a wrap, son. | ||
| You had a good life. | ||
| You beat the shit out of your friend for a year and a half solid, just kicking each other's ass. | ||
| It's fucking horrible. | ||
| The ears are totally jacked. | ||
| Their ears are shredded like an old bag. | ||
| It's a fight to the death that you missed. | ||
| I don't think so, because there's no body. | ||
| I think a bunny got out, and it probably ran away, or who knows what the fuck happened, and a coyote got it or some shit. | ||
| I mean, there's a lot of hawks, a lot of hawks in my neighborhood. | ||
| It's most likely a hawk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, but whatever. | ||
| This one little bunny's by himself now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's like... | |
| The other asshole. | ||
| They're both assholes to each other. | ||
| It's not like one good bunny. | ||
| They just find each other and they're like, fuck you. | ||
| Imagine just that's all you do for years. | ||
| That's bunny life. | ||
| You get two male bunnies together and every day is fuck you. | ||
| Fuck you! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fuck you! | |
| And they run at each other. | ||
| And one's always trying to get away. | ||
| One's always trying to eat and the other one will jump on them and start biting them and kicking them and the other one will do the same and they'll rotate. | ||
| You know, it's very funny. | ||
| The last two Jews in Afghanistan both had to live in the synagogue. | ||
| That was all they had left. | ||
| That's really all they had left? | ||
| And somebody went to go visit the last two Jews in Afghanistan and said, like, why aren't you guys friends? | ||
| And one of them says, here, I'll show you. | ||
| Hey, shmuel! | ||
| Want to have lunch? | ||
| The guy says, drop dead! | ||
| He says, you see what I'm working with? | ||
| And it's like the most Jewish conversation between the last two Jews. | ||
| They can't get along, so they're like the two rabbits that all the others went away. | ||
| Well, they're probably really horny and lonely and confused. | ||
| I suppose. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, what the fuck? | ||
| There's only two of them? | ||
| They need to get to Israel. | ||
| Stat! | ||
| Well, I think one of them died, and then the last one is just, who has to be the last guy? | ||
| Someone talk to them. | ||
| I know. | ||
| If it's possible for you to get to Jerusalem, that's your people. | ||
| You'll have a party over there. | ||
| Everything will be great. | ||
| Jewish food. | ||
| Everyone's speaking Hebrew. | ||
| Everyone's united. | ||
| Well, like the last three Jews of Kerala was this young woman and two guys. | ||
| No, neither one of you. | ||
| Forget this thing. | ||
| I know. | ||
| It's rough, man. | ||
| It's rough. | ||
| It's crazy to think there's a country with zero Jews. | ||
| Like, zero. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, nope. | ||
| The whole country. | ||
| Like, whoa. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| That is kind of insane. | ||
| There's no melting pot here, sir. | ||
| Zero. | ||
| Zero melting. | ||
| Just one ingredient. | ||
| Whole pot. | ||
| It's all stew. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| Yeah, well, the Taliban actually really needed the Jewish community, because they wanted to be able to say, hey, we've got great relations with Afghanistan's Jewish community. | ||
| They just didn't say it was two guys. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Two dudes that hate each other. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Very polarizing. | ||
| True. | ||
|
unidentified
|
True. | |
| I don't know how we got into... | ||
| Oh, glowing bunnies. | ||
| I'm not getting any fucking bunnies, man. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They're assholes. | |
| And if you get a guy and a girl together, you've got to fix the girl. | ||
| Otherwise, you're going to have a million bunnies, and they're all going to be kicking each other's asses. | ||
| That's all they do. | ||
| The bunny apocalypse. | ||
| Well, what's really fucked up is reading about animals that fight right out of the womb. | ||
| How they kill their partner. | ||
| Obligate sibilicide. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Pull up obligate sibilicide in... | ||
| Nazca boobies. | ||
| What are those? | ||
| I'll put in Nazca boobie. | ||
| Do they live in the Nazca lines? | ||
| What are these boobies? | ||
| Jamie, help me out here. | ||
| We're hanging on the word boobie. | ||
| Nazca boobie. | ||
| How do you spell that? | ||
| N-A-Z-C-A. And then boobies, the usual way. | ||
| I'm trying to remember what I was reading about. | ||
| And then obligate sibilicide. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Got it. | |
| When one animal comes out, the other one tries to kill the other one almost immediately. | ||
| Oh, hyenas. | ||
| Hyenas. | ||
| Hyenas, there's been evidence of hyenas attacking their sibling while it's in the ambionic sac. | ||
| And when they come out, the bigger one or the stronger one or whatever one's healthy will almost immediately start attacking its sibling and try to kill it. | ||
| Pull up that if that's true. | ||
| I'm pretty sure that's true. | ||
| I want to see boobies first. | ||
| I went into this crazy rabbit hole about hyenas recently. | ||
| What a bizarre animal that is. | ||
| Oh, the false penis? | ||
| Yeah, the false penis is just one aspect. | ||
| Yeah, everything about them. | ||
| 20% of the women die. | ||
| Okay, here it goes. | ||
| Obligate sibilicide is when a sibling almost always ends up being killed. | ||
| Fugitive sibilicide means the suicide. | ||
| Oh, facultive. | ||
| Like it's a choice versus you've got to do it. | ||
| Facultative? | ||
| Facultative. | ||
| Facultative. | ||
| Facultative sibilicide means the sibilicide may or may not occur based on environmental conditions. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So it sometimes will happen if there's not enough resources. | ||
| So the idea is that I think the breeding cycle is discretized. | ||
| So you either make it or you don't. | ||
| And so the danger of laying one egg and having it not work out is very... | ||
| Oh, this bird is fucking his brother up. | ||
| And it has to be in front of mom and dad because you want to prove that you're worthy. | ||
| Whoa, that is insane. | ||
| Right, so mommy... | ||
| Look at how he's beating it to death. | ||
| So this is because there's not enough food. | ||
| There's not enough food to do two. | ||
| So the first one... | ||
| The second one is a spare. | ||
| And the first one proves that he's worthy by killing his sibling, the spare, in front of the parents and says, yeah, you can invest in me. | ||
| I got this thing. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| And what kind of bird is this? | ||
| This is probably Nazca or blue-footed boobies is my guess. | ||
| That is insane. | ||
| It is insane. | ||
| It's hard to watch. | ||
| Well, this is what I said about biology. | ||
| Biology cares about your feelings. | ||
| And the mom doesn't give a fuck about her other baby. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| The mom wants. | ||
| Look. | ||
| The mom's excited. | ||
| This one's dying. | ||
| It's all fucked up. | ||
| And the mom's like, yeah, I like this. | ||
| Mom's excited. | ||
| Hey, the older one knows what it's doing. | ||
| He's viable. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| Well, nature's pretty brutal. | ||
| Pretty brutal? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| No, it's bizarre seeing this from, oh God, I don't want to see this thing slowly die, dude. | ||
| It's bizarre seeing it from birds, but I think it's even more ruthless. | ||
| Lions. | ||
| Yeah, hyenas. | ||
| Yeah, hyenas killing their siblings. | ||
| I think they were saying it's pretty universal, that when the first one comes out, they try to kill the second one. | ||
| You know this thing about female lions getting excited by the murder of their children? | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| So when the new male takes over the pride, his first order of business may be, let's stop wasting resources on the previous daddy's offspring. | ||
| So what happens is... | ||
| Same kind of thing. | ||
| The hyena gets out and immediately starts killing its sibling. | ||
| They're fighting to the death right out of the womb. | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| Fucking mad battle as babies. | ||
| Look, it's still got the sack on it. | ||
| And they're just trying to kill each other. | ||
| This is a particularly ruthless animal. | ||
| They were saying that 60% of hyenas die as they're trying to get out of the tube. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| What? | ||
| I didn't know that. | ||
| Yeah, 20% of women die, females rather, die when they're giving birth. | ||
| That's because of our crazy brain-to-body ratio. | ||
| No, female hyenas. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| That giant dick. | ||
| Sorry, I thought you were talking about... | ||
| High rates of human mortality? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Female hyenas die 20% of the time when they're giving birth. | ||
| Because the baby doesn't come out right. | ||
| Like they have this crazy, you know, they have a faux penis that is actually a vagina. | ||
| It's an enormous, huge, engorged clitoris. | ||
| It's far bigger than the males. | ||
| They have to pull it back so the male can copulate with them. | ||
| But then when they give birth, it has to come out of that dick. | ||
| And it doesn't always come out right. | ||
| Weird system. | ||
| Yeah, Google that because I might be wrong about the numbers, but it's some exorbitant number of babies die and a huge number of women die. | ||
| I keep saying women. | ||
| Female hyenas die. | ||
| Yeah, that's why I fuck up. | ||
| But they're also weird in that they're way bigger than the males, and that's because the males won't let the babies eat. | ||
| So that's one of the things they think. | ||
| Because they're scavengers. | ||
| The males are trying to push out everything smaller. | ||
| So because of that, the females have to get in and go, fuck off! | ||
| The kid has to eat. | ||
| Even if it's their kid. | ||
| That's cool. | ||
| So it's 60% suffocate on their way out. | ||
| Yeah, so 60% of them die on the way out. | ||
| Yeah, and I think it's 20% of the females die during childbirth as well. | ||
| Pretty sure that's what I read. | ||
| Which is fucking bananas. | ||
| I mean, 60% though. | ||
| Imagine 60% of all kids die on the way out. | ||
| And then the ones that don't die, if you got two of them, one of them kills the other one. | ||
| It's a rough neighborhood. | ||
| It's a matriarchal society. | ||
| And they get birthed through that fake penis. | ||
| Yeah, that's what I'm saying. | ||
| What is the purpose of the fake penis? | ||
| The fake penis is to dominate the men. | ||
| They get on top of the men and they go, listen, bitch, this is how it's gonna be. | ||
| And they got a big old strap on. | ||
| They peg their men. | ||
| All male hyenas are cucks. | ||
| They all take it. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| That's where we're heading is the country. | ||
| It's only an inch in diameter. | ||
| Really? | ||
| First canal. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oof. | |
| Jesus. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ouch. | |
| Tight squeeze. | ||
| That creates a high death rate for first-time mothers. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| High death rate. | ||
| It doesn't say here how many, but... | ||
| I think it's 20%. | ||
| Have you ever seen the full human clitoris? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I've seen one. | ||
| Have you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Not in the wild. | ||
| The full clitters? | ||
| No, I know. | ||
| I've never seen it like a biological... | ||
| Can you pull up the internal clitters? | ||
| Internal clitters. | ||
| I think it was only discovered... | ||
| Is it not allowed to be shown? | ||
| I was trying to quickly think about that. | ||
| Yeah, it'll probably get us in trouble. | ||
| Well, you could pull it up, but just don't show the world. | ||
| Just show us. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I think if you put that on YouTube, we'll be demonetized and possibly kicked off the network. | ||
| You have to Google that yourself. | ||
| Yeah, Google it, you weirdo. | ||
| And be careful of the wrath of the government. | ||
| It's an enormous structure that I think we didn't fully understand. | ||
| I don't understand how we could have missed it, but my understanding was we didn't fully understand the internal clitoris. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Where it goes? | |
| They're on the left below. | ||
| It looks exactly like the sort of space ships from War of the Worlds 1953. It's all that stuff on the outside? | ||
| All you see on the outside is that little tip at the top. | ||
| You better not show that, Jamie. | ||
| We're going to get in trouble. | ||
| They get mad at us. | ||
| Does that picture make you horny? | ||
| No? | ||
| Not at all? | ||
| It makes you afraid, doesn't it? | ||
| It seems like an alien. | ||
| Like it should shoot laser beams. | ||
| Like a facehugger. | ||
| Like that's the Ridley Scott alien, the facehugger. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wah! | |
| Look, it's very weird that we've just come to accept what the shape of the body is. | ||
| The body is very bizarre. | ||
| I mean, if we were all shaped like stingrays and we saw a person, we'd be like, what in the holy fuck is that thing? | ||
| Whether it's articulating fingers and moving its eyeballs around, sniffing things with its nostrils. | ||
| We just accept the fact that this shape is normal, that it makes sense. | ||
| Well, this is why cephalopods, from last time when we were talking about the cuttlefish, I just learned something new, which is that cephalopods are under consideration to be the next great model organism for biology. | ||
| So if you think about how weird it is that some branch of the phylogenetic tree is so far distant from us, that these mollusks have such advanced minds and their skin... | ||
| Is the wonder of the world, for sure. | ||
| Nobody knows quite how all of that... | ||
| Not only do they have these chromatophores to get the camouflage right, but they also change the texture of their skin to mimic things like coral and all this stuff. | ||
| Wouldn't it be cool if we made cephalopods the next great model organism and then we started doing comparative, like, not only neuroanatomy, but connectomics, where we're trying to study how their brains are organized? | ||
| Because they're so far away, they are probably... | ||
| The closest we will ever get to meeting aliens. | ||
| I think I said that the last time I was here. | ||
| And I'm really excited if that goes forward. | ||
| Well, it really doesn't seem like anything else. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, whether it's a cuttlefish or whether it's an octopus. | ||
| Like, you're like, oh, it's kind of like a squid. | ||
| Like, yeah, a little bit. | ||
| Like, a person's like a monkey. | ||
| Yeah, but like real different. | ||
| Well, and the Nautilus is like the craziest, you know, maybe. | ||
| The Cuttlefish is the most interesting for sure. | ||
| They're both fast. | ||
| And the Octopus is like, you know, so intelligent. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And they regenerate. | ||
| That's another part of it that's bizarre. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it would be fun to do I mean, I would imagine that newts and salamanders in the tetrapod category would be the best for us to study for regeneration. | ||
| I like how they regenerate up to a point. | ||
| Like, nature will say, yeah, you can grow an arm back, can't grow a head back. | ||
| Sorry, fuckface. | ||
| That's a wrap. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, you lose your head, nature's like, ah, you gave up a big piece. | ||
| You gave up the queen. | ||
| It's over. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Game's over. | ||
| But if you lose your tail, like, it's debatable. | ||
| Do you grow your tail back? | ||
| We could do that. | ||
| I think lizards grow their tailback, but they only grow most of it. | ||
| They don't grow the whole thing. | ||
| But the newts and salamanders seem to have this very high regeneration. | ||
| You can just keep cutting an arm off over and over again. | ||
| There it is. | ||
| But you can't cut their head off. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Why do you want to cut their head off? | ||
| I don't, but just saying, it's weird. | ||
| You can't chop them in half from the waist down. | ||
| They don't seal up and grow a new waist. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| You can only get rid of the limbs. | ||
| But you can get rid of the limbs. | ||
| Nature has evolved a strategy for dealing with predation. | ||
| Just give him the arm. | ||
| Give him the arm. | ||
| Take it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Pop. | |
| What do you make of the fact that we had this successful head transplant in monkeys in the early 70s? | ||
| And then we walked away from it. | ||
| Probably a good move. | ||
| Otherwise, chicks at Beverly Hills, they'd be getting new bodies. | ||
| Just getting their heads screwed on to new bodies. | ||
| Yeah, getting new heads. | ||
| Yeah, people would figure out a way to transplant their brains. | ||
| Everyone wants to lift forever. | ||
| Imagine just having an 800-year-old brain and 20-year-old motorcycle victim. | ||
| Yeah, that's what people are going to start doing. | ||
| Well, then I guess it's a good thing that we walked. | ||
| I thought it was kind of a weird move that we would succeed at that and then say, okay, too much. | ||
| Can't handle it. | ||
| Do you think that's what they did? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Or was it probably hard to get funding? | ||
| People thought you were playing God? | ||
| The guy who did it, I think, was, maybe his name was Robert White, and he was a devout Christian, so it was really, it was good, because, you know, there was a lot of this reverence for the human form, and if a religious person is doing it, we feel better than if somebody is, like, desecrating. | ||
| Right, right, some atheist asshole scientist who doesn't, there is no God. | ||
| I bet he's cutting heads off of dogs and reattaching them to monkeys. | ||
| Yeah, that's also like we think of it as like, okay, it's one thing if you're trying out medicine on a monkey that might save babies, but it's another thing if you just say, hey, what happens if I cut this monkey's head off? | ||
| Stick it on another monkey. | ||
| Well, there's all this crazy, I don't know if you've ever seen this, the Russians had this film introduced by J.B.S. Haldane, a great English biologist who was also a communist and therefore very pro-Soviet. | ||
| And there's this experiment, experiments in continuation of the brain after death. | ||
| And they hook up the head to an artificial circulatory system. | ||
| And they sort of continue to have interactions where they swab the head and they get the eyelash movement and the tongue comes out to lick and eat things. | ||
| It's quite interesting. | ||
| I would recommend it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Al Dane has one of the greatest quotes. | ||
| Not only is the universe queerer than you suppose, it's queerer than we can suppose. | ||
| What a great quote. | ||
| He was also the inordinate fondness of Beatles guy. | ||
| Inordinate fondness of beetles? | ||
| The Archbishop of Canterbury found himself, I think, seated across from Haldane and wanted to needle him because he was a communist atheist. | ||
| And he said, you know, tell me, what does your study of the biological world inform us about our great creator? | ||
| And Haldane shot him back. | ||
| He said that he has an inordinate fondness for beetles because beetles are so highly speciated. | ||
| And what was his reaction to that? | ||
| Well, I think it was a different era. | ||
| It's like, smoked, burned, but to our way of thinking, it's not that hard of a burn. | ||
| Well, we're really committed to the idea that all the stuff that we can do, manipulating the planet, sending rockets into space, that that's more important than what an ant does. | ||
| We're really committed to this, that our significance, although it's clearly, if we're working together, we believe in a sense of community, it's more important to each other, to us, it is, but to the whole thing, is it really more important? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, if people didn't exist, if we were wiped off the planet, all the other animals would be okay. | ||
| They really would be okay. | ||
| I mean, we would gain and lose, be more predators, and we wouldn't be controlling the population. | ||
| But if all the ants went away, that would be a wrap. | ||
| That would be a wrap. | ||
| We're done. | ||
| There's no more people. | ||
| This has been widely decided that if we lost all insects, especially all ants, it probably would collapse all the ecosystems that we need to sustain human life. | ||
| I have the feeling that those water bear tardigrades would be like... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Suckers! | |
| We got rid of the ants. | ||
|
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|
We're the only ones left! | |
| Well, we wouldn't be able to make it, but a lot of shit would make it. | ||
| A lot of other stuff would make it. | ||
| That's true, but, you know, the thing I think... | ||
| Maybe we'd make it anyway. | ||
| Maybe they're wrong. | ||
|
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|
Yeah? | |
| Maybe they just don't understand human originality. | ||
| Trying to freak us out? | ||
| Yeah, maybe. | ||
| Read that. | ||
| Find out if that's true. | ||
| If all ants... | ||
| If all ants died... | ||
| Human beings would go extinct. | ||
| Just Google that. | ||
| I think I read a paper proposing that, and they were explaining the critical role that ants play in all these different ecosystems and how the biomass of ants worldwide is equal to or greater than the biomass of human beings. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I don't have any intuition around that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Sounds reasonable enough. | ||
| I'm pretty sure that's true. | ||
| And so, but our idea is that we're more important. | ||
| Well, I have cable. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's not why I think we're more important. | ||
|
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|
I have 4G. Do you have 4G? Okay, maybe that's more important. | |
| I have a 70-inch television! | ||
| And I have an iWatch. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I must be more important than this stupid fucking ant with his dirt house. | ||
| If I can just piss on your house while I go jogging, I'm a more important thing than you. | ||
| Yeah, I don't... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I drown half your people by pissing on you? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Obviously, nature doesn't want to protect you. | ||
| You get your house in the dirt. | ||
| It's a hole on a mound. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I don't know why I want to get serious on you. | ||
| You're just trying to fuck with me. | ||
| But the really interesting thing about humans is that we're the only species that understands what game we're in, and we can reject the game. | ||
| Every other species is playing the game. | ||
| So you know my brother very well. | ||
| Very surprising to me that my brother only wanted to have two kids and didn't want to spend all his time down at the sperm bank making donations. | ||
| I said, you're an evolutionary theorist. | ||
| Do you ever think it's kind of weird that you're not playing this game very effectively? | ||
| And he shot me back this thing. | ||
| He said, if you actually understand the game, why would you want to continue to play it? | ||
| I thought that was really interesting that somebody who... | ||
| Sounds like his wife doesn't want any more kids. | ||
| That's what I hear. | ||
| Rationalizations. | ||
| I get it, bro. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The article I found says all insects dying, not just ants. | ||
| All insects. | ||
| It would take 50 years for people to disappear after that, according to this Science Explorer article. | ||
| Find out the biomass of ants. | ||
| That's even trippier. | ||
| But I want to get rid of this anti-human thing. | ||
| Oh, I'm not anti-human. | ||
| I know. | ||
| I know you're human. | ||
| I'm just neutral. | ||
| Biologically neutral. | ||
| If I just looked at it objectively. | ||
| Yeah, I don't think so. | ||
| I said, you don't think so. | ||
| You think we're more significant because we're more significant to each other. | ||
| Well, there's no significance in the whole game if you just take a completely materialist. | ||
| Like, what do we care? | ||
| It's one rock, one speck, big deal. | ||
|
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|
Right. | |
| So the problem is if you accept that as an answer, then you've kind of failed by just taking the nihilist way out. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And to me, Like, you know, they have this annual question at edge.org and finally a guy got exhausted and didn't want to ask another one. | ||
| So I'll finish this up quick. | ||
| Here. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| No, you want to take it? | ||
| Ants outweigh humans. | ||
| Individual workers weigh an average between one to five milligrams according to the species. | ||
| When combined, all ants in the world taken together weigh about as much as all human beings. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| Does that sound right? | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, that's what I'm saying. | ||
| That's fucking bananas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Woo! | |
| They are 15 to 20% of the terrestrial animal biomass. | ||
| And in tropical regions, where ants are especially abundant, they monopolize 25% or more. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ooh. | |
| Hymenoptera. | ||
| I have a buddy of mine, Brian Callan. | ||
| Brian Callan used to, when he was in college, he spent some time in the jungle. | ||
| He was thinking he was going to be a biologist. | ||
| He was going to study insect. | ||
| He was going to be an What is it? | ||
| An insectivore? | ||
| So, they had to sleep in these elevated tents, and they had to paint some sort of turpentine-type chemical all over the posts, because if they didn't, the ants would crawl up the posts and eat you in your sleep. | ||
| Like, literally climb in your ear and start eating you, and tell everybody, and you would die that way. | ||
| Like people have died. | ||
| Elephants have been eaten by ants. | ||
| And he said you can hear them walking in the jungle. | ||
| Like in the night, you hear the footsteps of fucking ants. | ||
| Because there's so many of them. | ||
| If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, and there's a path of these motherfuckers moving your way, and they send a signal that we got something here, and they crawl up you, they just all start crawling up you. | ||
| And there's so many of them, you can't avoid them. - Well, because they're not really separate animals, right? | ||
| They're eusocial. | ||
| Hymenoptera has this weird property of this haplodiploid structure so that the females are highly related to each other. | ||
| And so in the same way that your cells aren't individual animals, they all conspire to create you, there is a sense in which in this world of bees and ants and wasps and things, Hymenoptera, The real entity is the colony. | ||
| It's not the individual. | ||
| So, you know, if I took a cytological approach to you, and I just went cell by cell, you know, you're this collection of, you know, 10 or 50 trillion separate entities. | ||
| And that's what makes ants so terrifying, is that, you know, Kropakian, the great anarchist... | ||
| Sort of an amateur naturalist. | ||
| And he would look to natural systems and say, why can't humans cooperate like this? | ||
| And the point is, we're not structured to cooperate in this eusocial fashion. | ||
| The way they cooperate is so uncanny. | ||
| When those leafcutter ants design those intricate cities, they have places where things ferment and where gases are released through holes in the ground. | ||
| And it doesn't make any sense that this little tiny brain could figure out this enormous structure. | ||
| But somehow or another, when combined... | ||
| It's not a tiny brain. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Not just one version of this, but millions and millions of these designs appear all over the world. | ||
| And see if you can find that video of they filled a leafcutter ant colony. | ||
| They filled the home. | ||
| With molten metal? | ||
| Yeah, it was something like that. | ||
| And they pull out these crazy structures. | ||
| It's beautiful. | ||
| I think they flooded it with concrete. | ||
| They flooded concrete in all the holes. | ||
| And then they dug out everything around it so you could see the structure. | ||
| And then they explained what... | ||
| This is really well thought out. | ||
| They have portals. | ||
| This is how they get the food in. | ||
| And this is where they take the leaves. | ||
| And they let them rot. | ||
| And they turn into mulch. | ||
| And there's a gas release. | ||
| It's a distributed, loosely coupled system. | ||
| What makes it seem so amazing – I mean, it is utterly amazing. | ||
| But if you think about it as individuals making decisions that conspire to create these structures, that's more amazing than what it is, which is it's a loosely coupled distributed system. | ||
| You know, so that's how a beehive will send out explorers and they'll report back and they'll do the dance and the dance communicates the information and you get all these coordinated activities. | ||
| In what other systems do you suppress the fertility of females because the relatedness is so high? | ||
| This is gorgeous. | ||
| Yeah, this is the video we're talking about. | ||
| It's really huge, too. | ||
| And they have these... | ||
| Looks like tunnel systems, and then they lead to these big circular areas where they're really almost uniform in size. | ||
| It's a really strange way, or similar in size. | ||
| So they have these pathways that go to these like rooms, these circular rooms, and there's just This incredible network of these tubes and circular rooms that they uncover. | ||
| I mean, it's fucking enormous. | ||
| When you look at how big this thing, I mean, if you had to, like, how big is that? | ||
| What is that? | ||
| 80 feet across? | ||
| 90 feet across or something like that? | ||
| Good guess. | ||
| So they're continuing to dig this up. | ||
| They're not even done in this video here, but you see all the pipes that extend to the left and to the right. | ||
| So they've developed some sort of complex civilization, some weird, bizarre network of these passageways and rooms, and they do it just like this everywhere. | ||
| So some pattern has emerged in their species that has set them up to act as this collective group and then operate in this similar fashion all over the world, wherever they exist, with that kind of dirt they can manipulate like that. | ||
| That alone is a massive mystery. | ||
| You have a little tiny thing with a brain that's almost imperceptibly small. | ||
| It's just like a tiny little head. | ||
| Look at his little head. | ||
| How does he figure out that hole? | ||
| How does he figure out tunnels? | ||
| But he's not really. | ||
| They're not. | ||
| Well, this is what I'm trying to get at. | ||
| They're working together. | ||
| Okay, so if you look at, for example, C. elegans, the nematode with 1,000 cells for the entire body plan, 300 of which are neurons, we have a complete map not only of the cell lineage diagram, which is how this thing unfolds from a single fertilized egg, But we also have a complete wiring diagram of its nervous system. | ||
| So this is something that locomotes, it moves around, it eats, has sex, and it's only got 300 neurons. | ||
| Each of those is an extremely primitive machine, and they send signals to each other. | ||
| And we still don't know how the thing really works, even though we've got the entire thing mapped. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| This was the great insight of Sidney Brenner that we would make the worm the great model organism because we could actually map everything about it, right? | ||
| And it is astounding to me how little we've learned. | ||
| We've learned a ton from it. | ||
| But I had thought that we would have gotten much farther in understanding the brain Did you see this recent discovery of a 25-foot-long sea worm that apparently is not just one organism? | ||
| It's like many organisms together combined? | ||
| No. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I gotta find out about that. | ||
| Yeah, you gotta see this fucking thing. | ||
| It's insane. | ||
| And I think this is a very recent discovery, at least one this large. | ||
| And these guys are swimming around with this thing. | ||
| It looks impossible. | ||
| It looks like they landed on another planet, and they're experiencing this thing. | ||
| Like, this thing, whatever this is, I'm pretty sure that what I read, I read it really quickly as I was running out the door, that it exists. | ||
| Large, 8-meter worm-like sea creature stuns New Zealand divers. | ||
| So they're looking at this thing. | ||
| But I think there's many different organisms inside of it. | ||
| I don't think it's one individual organism. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's made up of hundreds of thousands of organisms. | ||
| I've never seen this. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, what? | ||
| What is it? | ||
| Like, what does that mean? | ||
| This is a weird tube. | ||
| For folks that are watching this, or listening to this, rather, what we're looking at is these divers that are just tripping balls here. | ||
| They're like, what in the fuck is this? | ||
| And it looks like an enormous tube-like jellyfish-type creature that's in the water. | ||
| It almost looks semi-translucent, right, would you say? | ||
| And it's dwarfing them. | ||
| It's enormous. | ||
| It's so big. | ||
| It's like the size... | ||
| Well, it moves and changes, but sometimes it's larger than a human waist or a human chest, and other times it gets real skinny, but it's fucking huge. | ||
| Like, look at that. | ||
| What is that thing? | ||
| I'm stunned. | ||
| Well, the fact that it's... | ||
| Like, I don't understand what they're saying, that it's made up of hundreds of thousands of organisms. | ||
| Like, how is it made up of different stuff? | ||
| Like, what is it? | ||
| Like, have you ever heard of anything like this? | ||
| Well, like the Portuguese Man of War, I think, is like five different organisms, isn't it? | ||
| Is it? | ||
| That collaborate in effect. | ||
| Really? | ||
| The Portuguese Man of War is not like a one thing? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Look at the size of that thing above the water. | |
| That is fucking crazy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Pyrosome. | |
| Just whatever the ocean is. | ||
| We're trying to look into space. | ||
| I wonder if there's aliens out there. | ||
| They're right there! | ||
| They're right fucking there! | ||
| Whether it's cuttlefish or octopus or this goddamn thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa! | |
| Pyrosome. | ||
| What the fuck? | ||
| That thing looks like a geometric pattern. | ||
| That's a nice smooth one. | ||
| Look at that one in the upper right-hand corner, Jamie. | ||
| What is that weird-looking fucking... | ||
| What is that thing? | ||
| 60 feet long. | ||
| 60 foot long jet-powered animal. | ||
| Oh God, it's like a civilization. | ||
| It's like a ship of these things flying through the ocean. | ||
| What? | ||
| Have you ever seen this before? | ||
| What the fuck is that? | ||
| That is so weird looking. | ||
| Come on, man. | ||
| That looks like something from Avatar, doesn't it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It totally does, right? | ||
| Like something that comes off that tree. | ||
| Hopefully put it in the new movie. | ||
| Yeah, call James Cameron. | ||
| Look at this thing! | ||
| So this is what those things are, but the other one is very smooth or it's low resolution and we can't get a really good look at it. | ||
| But that's what it is. | ||
| It's this collective group of hundreds of thousands of organisms that combine together and they're getting jacked by that turtle. | ||
| All you bitches. | ||
| What a weird, weird organism. | ||
| Look at that! | ||
| Look at this picture! | ||
| What if you stuck your arm in it? | ||
| Dude, how bizarre is it that there's a civilization of these things all combined, but what they are is individuals that operate as a giant tube? | ||
| You've never heard of this before? | ||
| No. | ||
| I'm so happy we found something you don't know about. | ||
| I feel the same way about your stuff, man. | ||
| That's a fucking weird one, man. | ||
| The idea that the ocean is really an alien world. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, the funniest part is when you hear these guys with their remote submersibles and they find some new life for them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're like, take me down three meters. | ||
| Wait, what is that? | ||
| They get really excited because it's... | ||
| It's the ability to meet aliens. | ||
| There are new things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, we've kind of sort of mapped out the biology. | ||
| Terrestrial stuff, more or less-ish. | ||
| Yeah, there's like a few weird things you find in the jungle, weird bugs. | ||
| Like, where's that? | ||
| Vietnam has some surprises for us. | ||
| Deer with fangs. | ||
| You ever seen those? | ||
| Oh, the Sulawesi boars? | ||
| No, the deer. | ||
| Vampire deer. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know about vampire deer. | ||
| It's the craziest looking thing ever. | ||
| It's deer with fangs. | ||
| Like crocodile looking fangs that come hanging down like this. | ||
| This is some jackalope thing. | ||
| No, it's not. | ||
| It's a weird little animal. | ||
| It's not a big deer either. | ||
| Well, do you know, look at that thing. | ||
| Vampire deer. | ||
| That's a real animal. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| How fucking strange. | ||
| What was in this coffee, Jamie? | ||
| Look at that thing. | ||
| Look at the fucking teeth on that thing. | ||
| It's probably something akin to their antlers. | ||
| They use it to defend themselves. | ||
| Okay, that's not real. | ||
| That one's not real. | ||
| Because that's a mule deer. | ||
| See that one? | ||
| That's some Photoshop bullshit. | ||
| What's interesting is, apparently, elk have these things called... | ||
| People call them ivories now. | ||
| But what they are is, at one point in time, they had tusks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like a boar. | ||
|
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|
Yeah. | |
| Like giant tusks that probably aided them in their fights. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they eventually shrank, and now they're just this weird sort of nubby thing. | ||
| I actually have some here. | ||
| I'll show it to you. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| After the podcast, I'll show them to you. | ||
| But they're this weird thing that's like not quite a tooth. | ||
| It's ivory. | ||
| It grows inside their head. | ||
| And at one point in time, it was some kind of a weapon, just like their head is. | ||
| I mean, the antlers are, you know, that's the largest... | ||
| How did we describe this? | ||
| What was the quickest growing... | ||
| Thing in the animal world is the antlers of an elk. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Because look how fucking huge they are. | ||
| They fall off every year and they grow back every year. | ||
| And it's all just for fighting. | ||
| And they used to grow back tusks, too. | ||
| I guess the tusks were permanent. | ||
| But it's just for duking it out. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's crazy weaponry. | ||
| Sexual selection. | ||
| Well, you want to know a really weird thing? | ||
| The dung beetle, there's a conserved system whereby in some dung beetles, the amount of weaponry you have as your antler is inversely proportional to the amount of copulatory apparatus you have where it counts. | ||
| And so if you have really impressive weaponry, you're not able to do quite as much. | ||
| And that may be the engine of speciations because the vagina and penis in that system is a lock and key. | ||
| And so if something shrinks too much, then you can't necessarily get the job done. | ||
| his genes can't pass on. | ||
| Maybe there's a certain amount of cooperation that's needed in the dung beetle world. | ||
| You can't have an oppressor. | ||
| You can't have a Genghis Khan of the dung beetle world. | ||
| The patriarchy in the dung beetle world. | ||
| Look at the size of the antler on that guy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Girls make fun of him. | ||
| Probably in the dung beetle world. | ||
| Look at the size of the antler. | ||
| He's like the guy with the Lamborghini. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Like, what's he doing over there with these giant... | ||
| He looks like elk antlers. | ||
| He probably has a tiny little dick. | ||
| You want a guy who's just got little... | ||
| Like that guy. | ||
| Probably hung like a roach. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Hey, I have a hunting question for you. | ||
| I started looking into this primitive hunting thing. | ||
| I was positively predisposed towards hunting. | ||
| And I turned myself off of... | ||
| I mean, I don't hunt, but I turn myself off of hunting by watching the affect of some of these people who are baiting and killing bears in ways that it just doesn't feel to me like hyper respectful. | ||
| And I wondered if there's like a deeper layer where if I got even deeper into it, I would understand it. | ||
| Or am I actually correct that there is something weird about the affect of attracting some beautiful bear to a kind of easy place to kill it and then just getting super excited about doing it in? | ||
| Well, your natural instincts, there's a reason for them, and you're most certainly correct. | ||
| It's a weird feeling, the idea that you're going to trick this bear into thinking he's going there to eat, and then you kill him. | ||
| Bear hunting is different than any other kind of hunting. | ||
| And first of all, there's a lot of emotional attachment to it because people love teddy bears and things along those lines. | ||
| but bears are this idea that they're beautiful they definitely are yeah they definitely they're also one of the more ruthless animals in the animal kingdom and they're all cannibals all of them and the males don't don't just go after the cubs they eat them and they they go after them specifically to eat them and then when the males get chased off the female will eat her own cubs and this is | ||
| They're also responsible for the death of at least 50% of undulate calves and fawns, whether it's moose cows. | ||
| Assume I don't have any of these issues. | ||
| So they also are really difficult to hunt. | ||
| And their populations, thought by wildlife biologists, are important to keep under control. | ||
| Assume I buy all of that. | ||
| So in areas of extreme density, like forests, you will not kill them unless you bait. | ||
| You will not. | ||
| So one of two things has to happen. | ||
| Either they have to use dogs, which is what they used to use a lot. | ||
| They used to use them in California until the 1990s. | ||
| They outlawed hound hunting. | ||
| And then they outlawed baiting around the same time. | ||
| What they essentially did in California is they outlawed bear hunting. | ||
| But they didn't. | ||
| You can still hunt bears, but it's extremely difficult. | ||
| Almost impossible with a bow or very, very unlikely. | ||
| Your rate of success would be extremely low. | ||
| If you want to control populations, if you like to eat moose and deer or you want to have them keep healthy populations and you don't want the bear encroaching on these rural homes and these areas, you have to control their populations. | ||
| And there's very few other ways to control their populations other than baiting them. | ||
| So assume that I was positively predisposed to hunting. | ||
| I do think that they're beautiful creatures. | ||
| I think they're emotional creatures. | ||
| But I understand. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're all beautiful. | ||
| I mean, I think even frogs are beautiful. | ||
| They're fascinating. | ||
| It's the affect that freaked me out. | ||
| It should. | ||
| It's a weird form of trickery, and we don't think it's sporting, right? | ||
| But the idea is that if you really want to control their populations, you have to accept that this is a necessary evil. | ||
| So then I grasp that. | ||
| It's still at the level – the thing that surprised me Was that the affect wasn't the expected affect of the hunter... | ||
| With reverence, in some sense. | ||
| Sufficient reverence for the kill. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's what flipped me out. | ||
| Well, people get excited and they get happy that they're successful because hunting is difficult. | ||
| And then if you take that out of context, if you take that out of context and people get happy, especially when they get happy, they're getting happy around people that have no problem with hunting. | ||
| See, one of the problems with respect is that it's assumed that you only have that respect if you don't have happiness that goes along with that respect. | ||
| So I understand that there is some amount of sadness, some amount of happiness. | ||
| There's a weird feeling of loss. | ||
| There's a lot of weird stuff that goes on. | ||
| The surprise, and the reason I'm asking you, is that I had expected that I would have the difficulty, bears equals teddy bears. | ||
| I'd get past that. | ||
| I'd keep going around this whole thing. | ||
| And then when I finally got to the end... | ||
| It was just that there wasn't the right balance between sadness, ecstatic elation. | ||
| It's hard. | ||
| It's hard if you're not there experiencing it. | ||
| It's hard if you're not involved in this hunt for many, many days and it gets very difficult and you don't know if it's ever going to happen. | ||
| But the bear hunting in particular, especially over bait, is way more problematic psychologically. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I think there's a really good argument, and I support this argument, that you must keep bear populations in control if you want people and all those other animals to live in harmony. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| Because if you don't, there's nothing else that keeps their populations in control. | ||
| I buy that. | ||
| Other than bigger bears. | ||
| Grizzly bears. | ||
| And grizzly bears, when they get out of hand, are way scarier. | ||
| That's a real... | ||
| A real difference. | ||
| A real giant problem in terms of our... | ||
| Our anthropomorphization of these animals, attaching these human attributes and these human thoughts, and thinking of them as our friends in the forest, and then what they actually are to people that live out there. | ||
| My guess is that if I went hunting with you... | ||
| Yes. | ||
| on a good hunt. | ||
| I expect that you would use the kill responsibly, that you would forego certain kinds of kills. | ||
| I don't have any of those issues, I think that where the issue is is that I wouldn't expect an unbalanced elation. | ||
| Yeah, I understand what you're saying. | ||
| And especially an unbalanced elation when you're hunting over bait for an animal that is not necessarily thought of in our culture as being an animal that you eat, which is bear. | ||
| And a lot of times people think that you don't eat them. | ||
| Black bears in particular, actually, they taste very good and people do eat them. | ||
| When you deal with people, like I have friends, my friend John and Jen Rivett, who live in Alberta and they are hunting guides. | ||
| It's a real necessity up there to hunt bears. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Because there is nothing else that's keeping their populations in check. | ||
| And if you ever go up there, you see an extraordinary amount of bears. | ||
| Like you could see 19, 20 bears in a day. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| They're everywhere. | ||
| And there's a high density of them. | ||
| And they just decimate the deer population. | ||
| They decimate the moose population. | ||
| And there's some of them that learn that they can get into garbage cans. | ||
| They can break into people's cars and destroy them. | ||
| They've killed a few people, but it's pretty rare. | ||
| Most of the time they realize that people are dangerous and they stay the fuck away. | ||
| But it's... | ||
| What I appreciate is spot and stalking traditional prey animals. | ||
| That's what I like to do. | ||
| I like to spot and stalk deer and elk. | ||
| Because I feel like... | ||
| First of all, they're the most delicious. | ||
| Whether it makes sense or not, they make the most sense to me. | ||
| In terms of a prey animal, they're the ones that I covet the most. | ||
| What I want to do is I want to go and get older, mature animals that are undulates. | ||
| Whether it's a deer or an elk, an animal that's spread its genetics, that is already... | ||
| It's, you know, seven, eight years old, nine years old. | ||
| It's an animal that doesn't have much time left. | ||
| If you get it now, you're probably getting it within a year of its death. | ||
| Whether it's by natural causes, wolves, cold, starvation. | ||
| You're doing it probably the most humane... | ||
| You're giving it probably the most humane death that's reasonably possible for this thing. | ||
| Unless it falls off a cliff. | ||
| And even then, it's the... | ||
| It might survive that for a little while. | ||
| When you're shooting an animal with an arrow, it's dead in seconds. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, you hit it in the heart. | ||
| I shot an elk this year. | ||
| It literally walked four yards and tipped over. | ||
| It just stepped, stepped, stepped, boom. | ||
| I am very impressed with the skill of some of these. | ||
| I guess this is the primitive hunting movement with spears. | ||
| See, that's... | ||
| I think you should be really careful. | ||
| About anything that you do that's not that accurate. | ||
| That's an issue. | ||
| Yeah, it's a giant issue. | ||
| But bows are extremely accurate. | ||
| There's guys that can shoot a paper plate at 120 yards every single time. | ||
| They could shoot a little plate like that. | ||
| They'll bet their life. | ||
| They could drop an arrow into that at 120 yards every single time. | ||
| You can get good at that. | ||
| If you have good technique and reasonable control of your emotions and your anxiety in the heat of the moment, you don't ever shoot anything at 120 yards, though. | ||
| You're shooting at things 30 yards, 40 yards. | ||
| And the degree of success is very high with skilled hunters. | ||
| They're ethical and they're shot decisions. | ||
| That primitive stuff is like, why? | ||
| Why are you throwing spears? | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| Are you trying to prove that you're better than people that use a bow and arrow? | ||
| This is not an accurate or effective thing. | ||
| I mean, it kind of is, but you have to be like 5 yards, 10 yards. | ||
| What do you got to be, 15 yards max? | ||
| I think part of the thrill of it for them is putting themselves in danger. | ||
| There's a little bit of that. | ||
| If you're shooting, oh, you're going after a bear? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I've seen some of these things filmed where the person looks like they're up in their, I don't know what to call it, their little... | ||
| Tree stand. | ||
| Tree stand. | ||
| And that doesn't look like they're putting a lot of risk. | ||
| But some of these people are clearly getting off on, this is the primal hunt, right? | ||
| And they're going backwards into something where... | ||
| The animal could surprise them. | ||
| And what I wanted to do is I wanted to reacquaint myself with – now that I can watch somebody actually in that moment, try to figure out what my ethics around hunting were. | ||
| And I thought that I had prepared myself. | ||
| And I thought when I saw you, find out where Joe is. | ||
| Because I have no question, knowing your ethics and how you think, that you would have a very subtle perspective on all these different kinds of kills, which sorts of animals. | ||
| Yeah, if you get to Spears, you're in a weird place. | ||
| Like you say, oh, I only spear wild pigs. | ||
| We're trying to get rid of them anyway. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| We're in a weird place. | ||
| We're in a weird place. | ||
| Because ethically, I think you have two choices. | ||
| Three choices. | ||
| Your three choices are rifle, which is number one, ethically. | ||
| Realistically, because if you shoot something with a rifle, you can be really accurate. | ||
| Like, out to 100 yards, 100% of the time. | ||
| Like, unless it's crazy windy out or there's some weird conditions, altitude can affect ballistics. | ||
| But not that much. | ||
| Out to 100 yards, you're fucking deadly if you have a really good control of squeezing the trigger, you're not jerking everything, you're not panicking. | ||
| Then bow is second. | ||
| You know, bow, it requires way more practice, way more fine-tuning of your motor skills, but it's still possible. | ||
| Then you have crossbow, which is even more effective than a bow. | ||
| Faster feet per second so that it travels at a flat line because it's going quicker before it drops. | ||
| They all drop at the same speed, right? | ||
| Bullets and arrows all drop at the same speed. | ||
| They just don't get there at the same speed. | ||
| So in the same amount of time, like if I'm shooting something at 100 yards with a bow, I am aiming with a sight that is calculating for the fact that the arrow is going to drop significantly in the time that it takes, if it's going 280 feet per second is like a normal speed for a good bow with a good heavy arrow, that's 280 feet per second that goes 100 yards, okay? | ||
| A bullet is going to go 100 yards far quicker. | ||
| But in the same amount of time it takes that arrow to get to that target, the bullet is going to drop the same amount as the arrow. | ||
| And that's what most people don't understand. | ||
| So a crossbow is more ethical because it's more accurate. | ||
| It has fewer moving parts. | ||
| You could actually sit it on a rest and just squeeze the trigger. | ||
| Easier to manipulate. | ||
| And the arrow is traveling faster, or it's called a bolt, traveling faster so it'll drop less. | ||
| After that, shit gets squirrely. | ||
| After that, it's like you're throwing spears. | ||
| Okay, what do you got, an atlatl? | ||
| Okay, alright. | ||
| Well, you can kill things with it, and people have done it, but it gets to how accurate are you, and what's your ethical range? | ||
| An ethical range for a really good hunter with a bow and arrow is probably 80 yards. | ||
| Maybe it's a moose, 90 yards, something big. | ||
| But with a spear? | ||
| Like, what do you got? | ||
| You got 10 yards? | ||
| So, you know, why? | ||
| That's the question. | ||
| Are you doing it for meat? | ||
| Are you doing it because, um, is this your Mount Everest? | ||
| You want to kill a pig with a spear? | ||
| And are you saying that a pig is not worth as much, so you should be able to kill it with a spear? | ||
| Because these are all weird decisions. | ||
| They're weird decisions. | ||
| And people make those with bears. | ||
| They make those decisions with black bears. | ||
| Like people that live where they consider them nuisances. | ||
| They kill them. | ||
| I mean, they used to be allowed to hunt black bears with a spear in Alberta until a big scandal a couple years ago. | ||
| Where a guy filmed himself doing that. | ||
| He shot a bear, or he killed a bear, rather, with a spear, and was hooting and hollering, and people got a hold of the video and thought it was disgusting and protested it, and people from Under Armour dropped his wife from their, you know, they had this sort of sponsorship deal with them. | ||
| And it caused a rift in the hunting community. | ||
| Some people think you should be able to hunt with a rock. | ||
| I don't care what you hunt with. | ||
| You should be able to hunt with anything. | ||
| And other people are like, hmm, okay, but what are we doing? | ||
| Are we just going out to get meat? | ||
| Or are we putting on a macho performance of our ability? | ||
| Okay, this is exactly what I wanted to get at, which is, if you know that a population has to be controlled, and you want the meat, Then it makes sense to me that you have to open yourself up to some of the pleasure of the kill. | ||
| That makes some sense. | ||
| But what I saw just like flipped me out because it wasn't a spear. | ||
| It was above and beyond. | ||
| Yeah, I saw a spear and other things. | ||
| And I was impressed by some of the skill. | ||
| I was impressed by some of the bravery. | ||
| But it's like, why? | ||
| Like, why? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Are you just doing it to population control? | ||
| Are you doing it for the meat? | ||
| This was a surprise to me. | ||
| I got kind of sickened by it. | ||
| That's not surprising. | ||
| It's not surprising. | ||
| I think if you were there, you'd probably be even more conflicted because you actually were there in the presence of the thing dying. | ||
| Watching a bear die on a video is one thing, but being there alive when they die is a completely different thing. | ||
| It's a very complicated thing because we have these deep set emotional connections to certain animals that my friend Steve Rinella, who's going to be actually on tomorrow, he calls them charismatic megafauna. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That we have this different view of certain animals, bears in particular. | ||
| But if you use the animal respectfully, and you kill it ethically, and you do, I don't have any problem with hunting bears. | ||
| In fact, I think it really is a necessary task. | ||
| It's something that even if you don't like to hunt bears, if you're living in a place like Alberta, you probably should hunt bears because you should do your part. | ||
| There's a lot of them out there. | ||
| One of the things that becomes an interesting relationship is the relationship between the moose hunters and the deer hunters and the bear hunters. | ||
| Those smart ones have come to an understanding that even if I don't hunt bear, I need those people out there doing it. | ||
| But it's how do you do it and why are you doing it? | ||
| I've seen animals die very quickly with a bow and arrow. | ||
| They die very quickly. | ||
| I've never seen an animal die with a spear. | ||
| I don't think it's necessary. | ||
| But I don't want to be the person that tells you you can't do it. | ||
| If you have an ethical range of five yards and you only hunt bear with a spear at five yards and you kill it immediately, you hit it and kill it, you're right. | ||
| Then you're right. | ||
| Yeah, it's not based on the method. | ||
| It's based on... | ||
| What are the ethical parameters around the killing? | ||
| I appreciate that. | ||
| And also, I would kind of be a hypocrite. | ||
| Because even though I can ethically kill something at 40 yards or just figure out what the number is depending on the size of the animal... | ||
| Even though I can do that, I could do it way easier with a rifle. | ||
| So why am I using a bow and arrow? | ||
| Why do I want to make it more difficult? | ||
| Why am I making it more challenging? | ||
| Why am I requiring myself to practice way more? | ||
| But you're asking these questions. | ||
| You're very self-aware. | ||
| It's a very important question to ask. | ||
| Because if I was just doing it just for the meat, I would probably use a rifle. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I think that that part of it has to do with the primal association with the kill. | ||
| And then the key question is, how do you want to indulge that? | ||
| What is the set and setting? | ||
| Blah, blah, blah. | ||
| So that was the thing that I found shocking, is that I had thought, you know, I understood something about the need to control population. | ||
| It's the affect, which really killed me. | ||
| Yeah, well, again, we're talking about bears. | ||
| You know... | ||
| It's not just bears. | ||
| Other animals as well? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, I saw... | ||
| I don't want to focus more on it necessarily, but it's just a question I had to ask you because I was very surprised by my own reaction. | ||
| Well, a lot of people are taking issue. | ||
| My good friend Ben O'Brien, who's a brilliant writer who's actually also a hunter, Is advocating that people stop taking what he calls grip and grins. | ||
| What a grip and grin is, like say if you shot a beautiful deer, you're holding the deer up by the antlers and you're smiling. | ||
| And he's advocating that those photos are problematic because people who don't hunt look at it like you're some bloodthirsty asshole that's super happy that something died. | ||
| And that's not, even though that's not how the people feel when they're taking those photos, what they are is happy. | ||
| That's something which is very difficult, which, you know, especially using a bow, most people go home empty-handed. | ||
| It requires too much fitness, physical fitness, because you're going up and down these mountains. | ||
| It requires too much accuracy and training and technique and archery. | ||
| Most people fuck it up. | ||
| And then there's dealing with anxiety. | ||
| Most people fuck it up. | ||
| But... | ||
| After it's all over, there's this great feeling of elation, right? | ||
| You did it. | ||
| I can't believe it came together. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Because it was probably not going to come together and people get happy. | ||
| These are people, again, that already accept hunting. | ||
| Now, if you take someone who is an animal rights activist or someone who deeply appreciates animals and then you show them that photo, they have a completely different association with what that photo means. | ||
| What that photo means is here's an asshole who's a trophy hunter who shot this thing. | ||
| Let me get my thing out. | ||
| I don't know any species... | ||
| That celebrates a kill for food with glee. | ||
| Chimps do. | ||
| Oh, sorry, sorry. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When they kill a monkey, they get pretty happy. | ||
| Well, then they do it socially, and then they share it through altruism. | ||
| They scream at each other. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Chimps are my least favorite species almost of all. | ||
| They're horrible. | ||
| They're so terrifying. | ||
| They're the worst. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're terrifying little fuckers. | ||
| So where do you think we are on the political front? | ||
| We haven't even touched that. | ||
| I think it's right the same way as bow hunting versus spears and rifles. | ||
| This world's messy, you know? | ||
| All these things are messy. | ||
| Do you see a way in which this political epic comes to an end? | ||
| The only hope that I have is through reasonable dialogue becoming an accepted and appreciated thing, a celebrated thing. | ||
| And that this is possible that people can realize there's some stupidity To this team mentality that we have, is right versus left, which is almost all, a good percentage of it, is these assumed identities. | ||
| These predetermined patterns that get adopted in order to, as we first started talking about this, in order to establish yourself as someone who's in a group. | ||
| You get accepted by this group. | ||
| And you see it left and right. | ||
| I mean, I don't want to name any names, but there's a bunch of people that do it blatantly. | ||
| You see them. | ||
| I've even seen them switch teams. | ||
| And you see them switch teams, and I don't buy their rationalizations when it comes to ideology, but I think what they're doing is they're switching teams because they realize there's an in on this team. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And they can just say, this is the problem with the team I used to be on. | ||
| Those fucking losers. | ||
| And they're really Benedict Arnold. | ||
| They probably have as much of an affinity to the ideas of one side as they do the other side. | ||
| They just go all in on one side to get acceptance from the group. | ||
| There's no way people change their opinion that much over two years or something like that. | ||
| It's like they just decide this group makes more sense now, and I've been attacked by people on the left, so I'm going to go to the right, or vice-a-verse. | ||
| And usually what it is, even when they say they've been attacked, like, oh, you fucking baby. | ||
| 300 million people just in this country alone. | ||
| If you put something out there publicly and a thousand people attack you, don't act like you're being persecuted, okay? | ||
| You have an idea, you've launched that idea out into the zeitgeist, and people took a big shit on it. | ||
| Whether it's people on the right or people on the left, you've got to be able to argue your point one way or the other and not just immediately jump ship when someone who shares ideas with you decides that your idea sucks. | ||
| And maybe they're wrong. | ||
| And maybe you're right. | ||
| But you've got to argue that through. | ||
| But this idea of... | ||
| These partisan patterns that people just seem to automatically fall into, they're so detrimental to dialogue. | ||
| They're so detrimental to us really understanding each other and really having some sort of a sense of community, right? | ||
| This is a giant community of 300 million people. | ||
| That's what it's supposed to be. | ||
| And this idea that this group is trying to fuck it up and they're trying to turn us all Muslims and this one wants everybody to be gay and this one wants everybody to fucking have free food and this is nonsense. | ||
| This is nonsense. | ||
| We need better understanding and, you know, the word better education gets tossed around a lot, but it also means better social understanding. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| Better social education. | ||
| An appreciation of who we are and why we think the way we think. | ||
| And calling out weasels on both sides of the pattern. | ||
| Calling out weasels on the right that are pandering, that are just repeating a lot of these accepted beliefs because they know that they can hit this frequency and a lot of people sing along. | ||
| Or the same thing that people are doing on the left. | ||
| They're doing it on both sides. | ||
| I think most reasonable people have a collection of ideas that they share from both the right and the left. | ||
| And most reasonable people are reasonably compassionate. | ||
| And I think that's one of the things that we're missing. | ||
| A reasonable sense of not just... | ||
| Ethics, but an appreciation for each other, for all of us as a group. | ||
| And that, I think, if we can celebrate reasonable conversations and celebrate an understanding of other people's perspectives, be able to just look at how you're looking at things and have empathy. | ||
| Okay, let me see where you're coming from with this. | ||
| Okay, let me put myself in your shoes. | ||
| Okay, instead of just immediately, like, fuck you, you cuck, and fuck you, you this, and... | ||
| Instead of thinking about it that way, if we just tried to just... | ||
| Everybody exercise a little bit more, so we're a little bit more calm, and come at this from a rational place, and try to, like, realize, like... | ||
| Doesn't this require exclusion? | ||
| I've been experimenting with a very dangerous idea, which is I keep hearing about chief inclusion officers. | ||
| And, you know, I thought about, you know, I think from Ecclesiastes, you know, to every season there's a purpose under heaven. | ||
| So if there's inclusion, there also has to be exclusion. | ||
| And, like, deplatforming or unplatforming somebody is an act of exclusion. | ||
| And very often it's very interesting that the people who are for inclusion are very focused on the need for deplatforming, which is an act of exclusion. | ||
| So should we have chief exclusion officers that both monitor who is being excluded, including somebody like James Damore at Google? | ||
| Is it ethical to exclude him? | ||
| Or are there certain voices that need to not be at some tables in order for something to make progress? | ||
| Because if you always have the voice that's the most extreme that doesn't accept the game, then it's very hard to move forward within the game if you're constantly being reminded. | ||
| So we have this series of situations in which it seems like some perspective that very few people hold terrorizes majorities or a group of people who sort of can more or less get along with each other. | ||
| And keeps pushing us into this very divided landscape. | ||
| I was just curious, you know, in terms of our group of people that we talk and hang out with in common, Where you see the high leverage is. | ||
| We've just finished the midterm. | ||
| We've got this 2020 election. | ||
| It looks to me like Hillary is kind of eyeing whether she wants to get back in the game. | ||
| This Trump thing has completely – it's like the dress. | ||
| Is it black and blue or white and gold for – it could be eight years. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I just – have you thought about how this ends? | ||
| Well, I would never be so presumptuous to think that I have any idea how this ends. | ||
| I've proposed various scenarios to myself, and I don't like any of them. | ||
| I don't like where it's going, because what I worry about, and this is also, again, hypocritical, that Because I think it probably should burn down and be rebuilt from the ruins. | ||
| We're not going to get such a clean thing again. | ||
| It's not going to be clean. | ||
| I know. | ||
| No. | ||
| This isn't very clean either, though. | ||
| Honestly. | ||
| That guy won. | ||
| It's not clean. | ||
| I mean, he loves Putin. | ||
| You know, this ain't clean. | ||
| You know, the whole thing is weird. | ||
| The bankers having the amount of influence they have, the fact that there's two lobbyists. | ||
| What's the number? | ||
| Two lobbyists to every member of Congress or two lobbyists to every senator? | ||
| From the pharmaceutical industry, by the way. | ||
| The number of people that have influence over the way our laws are shaped, it's so fucking bananas right now, right? | ||
| So off the rails. | ||
| Is that what it is? | ||
|
unidentified
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Twelve. | |
| Twelve? | ||
| What? | ||
| I didn't type in specifically, but there's 23 registered lobbyists for every member of Congress. | ||
| No, I think from the pharmaceutical industry they were saying. | ||
| I think it's two for every member of Congress in the pharmaceutical industry. | ||
| Yeah, the question that you started out with, like de-platforming people... | ||
| I think we're impatient, and I think we really want to make sure that this vetting of ideas happens quickly because we see the answer. | ||
| We see the solution. | ||
| We see that this is incorrect, and we see these people that think the world is flat are idiots, and we think that these people that think this and think that, we think they're all wrong, and so we want to stop them from talking. | ||
| But that doesn't work. | ||
| It just works for now. | ||
| It oftentimes feeds those ideas. | ||
| And it also, you have to question, like, why are you so sure? | ||
| Why are you so sure that you are correct? | ||
| That you don't just want your side to be heard exclusively. | ||
| You want to silence these other people's ability to participate in this argument, even if they're totally wrong. | ||
| I think that's dangerous. | ||
| Because I think that the way to fight off ideas that aren't good is to introduce ideas that are good. | ||
| And you're gonna have a bunch of people that agree with ideas that are bad. | ||
| But I think that that's a part of this whole figuring things out. | ||
| Like, you need to have bad ideas floating around there to appreciate good ideas. | ||
| If all the ideas are good, like, what are we duking it out against? | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's not bad to have these bad ideas broadcast. | ||
| It's bad to not have someone say, hey, these are bad ideas. | ||
| We need to see the pitfalls of racism. | ||
| We need to see the pitfalls of crime. | ||
| We need to see the pitfalls of corruption. | ||
| We need to see it in action. | ||
| I think it's like stock market swindling. | ||
| I think in a lot of ways it's important. | ||
| We need to understand that this is a pattern that people fall into continually over and over again. | ||
| When they have control over the money, when they have control over the numbers, what do I do this? | ||
| How about if I tell you that this is going to go down and then you invest some money and I put some money in your bank? | ||
| And we work together. | ||
|
unidentified
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Let's make some money. | |
| This is what people do, right? | ||
| They just fucking do it over and over and over again. | ||
| Should you punish them? | ||
| Yes, absolutely. | ||
| But I think it's kind of important to see some fucked up behavior. | ||
| Just because we're not done. | ||
| We're still in some sort of emotional and psychological and even physical evolution. | ||
| We're in the middle of this thing. | ||
| And I think that bad ideas facilitate comprehension. | ||
| Like these really shitty ideas that a lot of people have, what they do is they facilitate a comprehension of why we think dumb shit. | ||
| And sometimes you don't know why people think dumb shit until you see someone over and over again that thinks dumb shit. | ||
| And you get to see that whether it's Alex Jones or whether it's who, fill in the blank. | ||
| What guy do you want deplatformed? | ||
| Okay, so here's my thing. | ||
| I want a lot of our leading experts deplatformed. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well, you're going deep. | ||
| You're going to spray paint a fucking big A on Tucker Carlson's driveway, aren't you? | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| Well, if I think about who the great danger is, is it Alex Jones, you know, who veers towards tinfoil hatland with some frequency? | ||
| Or... | ||
| Is it the people who were selling, you know, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq as a response to 9-11? | ||
| Or, you know, the people, let's assume that you're a reasonable person on immigration. | ||
| You neither think that borders should be open nor closed. | ||
| Then you start hearing professors say, you know, the great thing about immigration is that it has absolutely no costs and all of them are better than all of our people because they're highly trained, they're highly motivated, they're young. | ||
| You're thinking like, okay, what kind of thing has all benefits and no costs? | ||
| You're not even entering into a rational description. | ||
| And now we're hearing like all these trade deals that got negotiated and Yeah, that kind of wasn't true. | ||
| All those things that we were telling you that if you question these things, you were a backward protectionist and you were just stuck in the old world and you couldn't embrace the new. | ||
| Yeah, that was all bullshit. | ||
| What I think is we have a crisis in expertise. | ||
| Institutional expertise is at an all-time low. | ||
| Nobody really trusts any of our institutions to be an authoritative source of ground truth. | ||
| It's not to say that everything that the institutions say is wrong or everything the experts say is wrong. | ||
| Far from it. | ||
| It's just that there are almost no experts or institutions that aren't willing to distort facts in order to pursue institutional goals. | ||
| That's a giant issue, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so I don't actually want to de-platform these people, but I do have the very strong sense. | ||
| When Elon came on your show and Peter Thiel, my friend and boss, came on Dave Rubin's show, I thought that was quite a moment where this alternate network of distribution... | ||
| which is not under centralized control started to be seen as comparably powerful and important and I think some of the noises that Tucker Carlson just made To Dave Rubin about, well, hey, you're doing this out of your garage and you have the freedom to do anything. | ||
| I'm beholden to the structure in which I live. | ||
| We're at a very interesting place with respect to what is this thing, this alternate distribution network for ideas that's unpoliced by the institutions. | ||
| And I think I've been convinced in the last two days that I need This is advice that I got from you at the beginning. | ||
| You said, you need to start a podcast. | ||
| I think I need to start a podcast. | ||
| I think you need to start a podcast. | ||
| Just keep going on about the hop thing until people figure it out. | ||
| No, not just about the hop thing. | ||
| But we have to return to some kind of stable sanity that I'm positive that the institutions can't return us to because the institutional interests really have to do with the fact that certain kinds of growth on which they're predicated, their existence is predicated, have evaporated. | ||
| So all of these institutions are extremely vulnerable to corruption at the moment. | ||
| And the real revolution as I'm seeing it is that high agency individuals are out competing traditional institutional structures in terms of mindshare. | ||
| And some of those high-agency individuals are irresponsible. | ||
| They're like Milo types that are kind of trying to light things up. | ||
| And some of them are extremely responsible. | ||
| And some of them, you know, will do a few irresponsible things, but will self-correct. | ||
| And this new world that is being born is a huge check on the institutions. | ||
| But it's still largely separate. | ||
| Like, am I right that you don't do a lot of network television? | ||
| I don't do any anymore, but I used to. | ||
| I mean, that's how I became famous in the first place. | ||
| You know? | ||
| But yeah, I don't do it anymore. | ||
| But it's also because there's nothing fun out there like this. | ||
| Like, there's no place for this. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| Other than this. | ||
| This is the only place you could do this. | ||
| But isn't it interesting to you that we still have not – like, Jordan had to be dealt with by the mainstream because the book was too big. | ||
| His effect was too large. | ||
| I think his effect on the internet is bigger than the book. | ||
| I think the YouTube videos and the debates that he has, the one that I was telling you, the recent one, the interview with GQ... So interesting. | ||
| It's really good. | ||
| The woman's very smart, but she gets trounced. | ||
| And it's because he's been in the trenches with this stuff for a long time. | ||
| I mean, he's fighting a very strange fight of dialogue and of interpretation and of discussion and... | ||
| The freedom of intellectual sovereignty. | ||
| You know, there's a lot of people that want you to think a very certain way and use certain words and say certain things. | ||
| And it doesn't matter whether or not you are in fact racist or sexist or homophobic or whatever. | ||
| There's a weird battle of control going on. | ||
| That it's a heart of it as much as it is a battle of inclusion and diversity and strengthening our overall progressive mindset. | ||
| There's a little bit of that too. | ||
| But there's also an undeniable game that's being played. | ||
| And people want to win. | ||
| There's scores that are being scored. | ||
| There's points on the board. | ||
| They're throwing in new agents. | ||
| They have teams going at it. | ||
| And whenever Jordan goes on one of these conversations, these video interviews, and there's a feminist and Jordan Peterson, like, there's a fucking game going on. | ||
| We're watching a soccer match. | ||
| We're watching a wrestling match. | ||
| This is jiu-jitsu. | ||
| They're playing intellectual jiu-jitsu. | ||
| And Jordan's really good at tapping people. | ||
| He's really good at it. | ||
| And they're getting pissed. | ||
| They keep sending in new chicks. | ||
| They sent in that Kathy Newman lady and she's like, so what you're saying is that didn't work either. | ||
| She just got devastated. | ||
| She got rocked. | ||
| And this is what's happening over and over and over again because whether you appreciate what he's saying or not, he has some facts that are undeniable. | ||
| He has some positions that are based on a rich understanding of history and of Marxism and of communism and of a lot of the problems with people With compelled thoughts. | ||
| If you're compelling people to behave a certain way, compelling people to talk a certain way, and we're not talking about compelling people to not commit crimes or violence. | ||
| We're talking about weird things, like compelled pronouns. | ||
| So if I take your analogy, because you brought it up, that he's like doing jujitsu. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So in some previous era, and I thought your description of the early days of MMA was fascinating, that we just didn't know what fighting was. | ||
| So we didn't know who would win or what systems worked. | ||
| And if you think about the mainstream media is like... | ||
| Aikido. | ||
| It's some system that maybe has some validity in some very rarefied context, and it comes into general purpose fighting systems, and it's dismantled very quickly. | ||
| So now we have this weird situation that we've got this new world of kind of rule-laden, anything-goes discussions, more or less, And the mainstream world doesn't want, like, the Aikido world doesn't want to acknowledge that this weird UFC-type thing is happening. | ||
| How long does that go on for? | ||
| It goes on for as long as it takes. | ||
| And this is similar to, I think, what's happening intellectually. | ||
| And this is one of the reasons why I don't think you should stop people from expressing these bad ideas. | ||
| It's one thing for stopping people to say, hey, we need to kill black people. | ||
| Stopping people to say, we need to kill white people. | ||
| We need to kill fill-in-the-blank, whatever the group is. | ||
| Yeah, that's different. | ||
| You're... | ||
| Clearly stepping outside of the realm of civilization and into war and violence. | ||
| And we could all collectively decide, and we should all collectively decide. | ||
| We should have ethics together. | ||
| Whether it's right or left or in the middle, we should all decide, hey, you can't do that. | ||
| Because what you're doing is you're calling for violence against someone who's not committing any violence. | ||
| Can I pause you right there? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes. | |
| Because I think there's a really interesting point. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Let's assume that we know that that behavior needs to be down-regulated in some way. | ||
| You can try to silence the person where we just physically duct tape them so they can't say anything. | ||
| You know, we put them in jail. | ||
| We don't give them access to the media, etc., etc. | ||
| Or we can shame them, or we can kind of take them aside. | ||
| At what layer of this sort of communication stack do we should – because I think one of the things that we haven't done is to positively say, We agree with you that the speech is offensive and it is potentially dangerous, but we think it should be downregulated differently than the deplatforming option. | ||
| Well, the deplatforming option, the real issue is there's only a few different avenues for these people to express themselves publicly. | ||
| And the argument that's really strange is, should these be regulated like a utility? | ||
| Or should they be thought of as private businesses get to decide what's on their channel, essentially? | ||
| It's almost like a private NBC that everyone can broadcast on. | ||
| What if it's none of the above? | ||
| What if the problem is we're trying to pretend, is it like a dinner party? | ||
| Is it the public square? | ||
| Is it a utility? | ||
| And it's none of these things. | ||
| I think these ideas, what I was discussing, that there's a reason why good ideas and bad ideas should go to war. | ||
| It's the same reason why, even though I kind of knew that most kung fu was bullshit before the UFC, I want those guys to get in there and try. | ||
| Oh, you got some death touch? | ||
| Hey! | ||
| Come on in. | ||
| I want to introduce you to a guy. | ||
| You know, this is... | ||
| His name's Cain Velasquez. | ||
| And you're going to try your death touch. | ||
| And he's just going to wrestle you to the ground and beat your fucking brains in. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Right. | ||
| But that's not going to happen because you know death touch. | ||
| Good luck. | ||
| And you let him duke it out. | ||
| And that is the battlefield of ideas. | ||
| But it is a little. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| But... | ||
| But when you deplatform people, that's when it's not happening. | ||
| I agree with you. | ||
| But what I'm trying to get at is that... | ||
| I hadn't really thought about it. | ||
| The extent to which Jordan is the only one of us that they've really gone after like this. | ||
| Well, first of all, he became famous from this. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| The battle was how he emerged. | ||
| He emerged from this battle over the use of compelled pronouns for various genders. | ||
| Like the 28, 78 different genders Similar but not Okay The difference is Brett's position He comes from a different place The way they were going at him was so much more unreasonable. | ||
| They were saying right away that what he has to do is leave work because he's white. | ||
| They were basically saying a racist thing and everyone universally acknowledges as racist except for these super lefties. | ||
| Who thought that it made sense because in their mind every white person is somehow or another guilty of at least, at the very least, using your privilege to advance in the world to the negative impact of people of color and people of other ethnicities. | ||
| So they decided that they are going to have a day of exclusion and instead of this day of absence having Right. | ||
| That's also part of the problem. | ||
| Their arguments are incoherent. | ||
| You would see that fucking stupid president of the university standing in front of those kids and they told him to put his hands down because he was threatening. | ||
| You're scaring us. | ||
| You're making violent gestures with your hands. | ||
| So he puts his hands down and they start laughing. | ||
| Okay, this is nonsense now. | ||
| You're in little kids. | ||
| You got little kids running. | ||
| You got Lord of the Flies on a grand scale in a state university. | ||
| And it's all, I mean, this is a public university, right? | ||
| I mean, they get funding, right? | ||
| This is all chaos. | ||
| Nobody agrees. | ||
| They got baseball bats. | ||
| They're looking for him if he's coming back to the school. | ||
| The kids form these vigilante groups with weapons. | ||
| Over what? | ||
| Like, who's threatening you? | ||
| Like, what is happening here that you need weapons? | ||
| Okay, but the big story there was the non-reporting. | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| Well, the New York Times, Washington Post, all of these major organs, NPR, they didn't want to touch the story. | ||
| Well, this is my big theory here is that every outfit that has a grand narrative cannot report the news that goes counter narrative. | ||
| So racism by blacks against whites cannot be reported by any outfit that believes that racism is impossible by blacks against whites. | ||
| That's such a preposterous position. | ||
| The idea that racism is exclusive to any group. | ||
| Well, but the redefinition of that term... | ||
|
unidentified
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I know the redefinition. | |
| The redefinition can suck a fat dick. | ||
| It's a stupid redefinition. | ||
| Well, that's true. | ||
| This idea that the only way you can be racist is if you have power over that other group. | ||
| That's nonsense. | ||
| Human beings act as individuals and they always have power over each other. | ||
| You have power to intimidate. | ||
| You have power to isolate. | ||
| You have power if there's more than a few of you. | ||
| But what got confusing about this is that... | ||
| pretense of consistency. | ||
| I mean, on that side of the aisle, it's like, we're going to throw out the following 17 completely contradictory rules, and then we'll tell you which rule is operative in any given moment. | ||
| So I was going to throw out this concept of the Hilbert problems for social justice. | ||
| So one of them is, you cannot understand me because my experience is too different, and you must understand me because mine is so important. | ||
| Or we are all similar enough that any deviation from 50-50 shows you the amount of sexism in a workforce. | ||
| And we are all so different that once you include women in previously male occupations, you will see a great benefit because of the diversity of opinion. | ||
| So there are all these self-contradictory couplets. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| That you have to agree to. | ||
| Well, that's the weird thing. | ||
| Assume that I just buy all of your stuff. | ||
| I think we've made a terrible tactical error. | ||
| We fought these bad ideas. | ||
| Rather than saying, maybe we should just accept all of your bad ideas. | ||
| And then show you what kind of weird world... | ||
| No. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| No. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| You can't do that because they don't make sense. | ||
| You can't say, oh, yeah, they make sense. | ||
| Well, then how do I know when you're serious? | ||
| If you just let those through and those things fail... | ||
| But that's my point, is that by showing the internal... | ||
| In mathematics, we call this reductio ad absurdum, that once you take on too many different points, you show the conflicts, showing that those things can't all be true. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Secret. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right? | |
| Oh, you didn't hear about this? | ||
| Oh, God. | ||
| So the idea is that the Victoria's Secret Lingerie Division head had to step down where there was a scandal in the background that somebody had said, "We don't actually want trans people walking the Victoria's Secret runway." Right? | ||
| And so, very interesting. | ||
| You You have a company that is dedicated to the commercial exploitation of humans as sexual objects for the privilege of the male gaze, and now you're angry that it doesn't include trans into that exploited class. | ||
| So just without getting into whether this makes good economic sense or anything, there's just the issue of self-contradiction. | ||
| But isn't that a reductionist view of what Victoria's Secrets is? | ||
| Isn't it possible that a woman can feel empowered and sexy if she's wearing lingerie and it's not just to the exploiting of the male gaze that she appreciates looking attractive? | ||
| Wonderful. | ||
| So take that off. | ||
| That's okay, right? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So the idea is that you're both going to say... | ||
| That's a positive female empowerment issue, and it's a terrible male exploitation issue at the same time. | ||
| But is it a terrible male exploitation issue? | ||
| What if women decide universally they like guys who wear leopard skin underwear, and guys start wearing leopard skin, tighty-whitey underwear? | ||
| Well, this is sexual selection. | ||
| But yes, but what's the difference between that and women wearing lingerie? | ||
| If women wear lingerie and they do it because they like to be gazed at and they like to be more attractive or to accentuate their attractiveness. | ||
| So then the sexual self-objectification is an interesting issue. | ||
| Is that an issue of empowerment or is it an issue of oppression? | ||
| It might be. | ||
| It could certainly be. | ||
| If a woman's healthy… So take that all on. | ||
| Why does it have to be exploitation though? | ||
| That's the question. | ||
| What I'm trying to say is at some point you've made too many arguments. | ||
| There's this concept called the principle of explosion in mathematics. | ||
| The principle of explosion says if you can get one contradiction through airport security, you can blow up the universe. | ||
| a single contradiction in the unity of knowledge, everything can be proven. | ||
| So everything becomes meaningless. | ||
| So the game in some sense in mathematics is frequently to say, well, let's take all of those beautiful things that you believe. | ||
| So you've just enunciated some, I've enunciated some, you throw them all in. | ||
| Instead of saying what's true and what isn't true, you say, are these compatible? | ||
| And these ideas are clearly incompatible. | ||
| So, for example, one of the tricks that I use is to look at advertising for women, to women, and what phrases get used. | ||
| So if you use the phrase, turn heads this summer, in quotes, and put it into a search engine, you'll find all sorts of revealing outfits that are intended to court the male gaze. | ||
| You say, well, maybe that's not really the male gaze. | ||
| So then you put in a phrase like, make him drool. | ||
| And that will be used to market to women. | ||
| And so this issue about, can we at least get to a point where we're talking about the internal contradictions of your position? | ||
| Like, I don't even want to get into what my position is. | ||
| The first thing that's scaring me is that you've said so many things so strongly and so dogmatically. | ||
| And this doesn't have to be about gender, it could be about race, it could be about class. | ||
| But once you've said too many things, Then I can say, look, I don't see any way of squaring all of your positions. | ||
| And it doesn't even have to do with me. | ||
| I think that's where we haven't gone to yet. | ||
| So you think letting them come up with as many preposterous things as possible, and then once it gets to a position where the ideas contradict each other, expose that... | ||
| Well, that's my point, which is once you've told me all of your principles... | ||
| Then I'm going to say, great, I'm confused. | ||
| Do you feel that I have to understand you or that I can't understand you? | ||
| Because I don't know which is operative in this situation. | ||
| Tell me the rule how I decide which principle that you've stated governs this situation. | ||
| One last point about that. | ||
| I don't want to have to refer to you where you say, well, you bring me each individual situation and I... Will tell you which principle is operative and which principle is inoperative. | ||
| That doesn't work. | ||
| I want you to list your principles and list your mechanisms for resolving the conflicts within your principles. | ||
| And then, once you've done that, we can actually evaluate what you're saying. | ||
| But at the moment, it requires you as an oracle to tell me which of your seemingly contradictory positions is operative in every particular case. | ||
| So, for example, We did that one with the person who was the quantum ex-Muslim, trans-trans, you know, everything going on. | ||
| Which is operative? | ||
| The person with machilophobia, which is an extremely rare psychological condition, or the person who appears to be deep into some radical self-actualization principle? | ||
| They're even. | ||
| The person who wears that crazy makeup should be able to wear whatever they want. | ||
| There's nothing wrong with it. | ||
| You should be able to dress like Paul Stanley from KISS if that's your thing. | ||
| Assume that that's true. | ||
| But what if, for example, as a heterosexual male, you don't want to watch the crying game at the Victoria's Secret runway show? | ||
| Do you really think that Victoria's Secret runway show is for the heterosexual male? | ||
| In some sense, yes. | ||
| What, guys? | ||
| Have you ever watched the Victoria's Secret fashion show? | ||
| That's what the guy said. | ||
| He said it was a fantasy. | ||
| That's what he's branding it as. | ||
| Save it. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| I mean, there's something between... | ||
| A fantasy of Victoria's Secret. | ||
| A senior executive recently told Vogue that trans models don't belong in the fantasy of Victoria's Secret fashion show. | ||
| Well, you know, that's on him, you know? | ||
| I mean, he wants to... | ||
| But just because he says it doesn't mean it's true. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| If you looked at the graph of male-to-female viewers of a Victoria's Secret fashion show... | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| ...it would be, like, a few prepubescent boys and the vast majority of women, and maybe some gay guys. | ||
| But that's it. | ||
| Is that right? | ||
| It's gotta be. | ||
| Who the fuck is sitting around... | ||
| It's on in an hour. | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| Oh, we're getting some popcorn ready for the Victoria's Secret fashion show. | ||
| Doug's coming over, Mike, and we're going to drool at the TV. Get the fuck out of here. | ||
| There's porn, and then there's everything else. | ||
| Everything else is for chicks. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Runway shit? | ||
| I don't know that. | ||
| There's not a single guy out there watching runway shit. | ||
| It's like, remember when Playboy had Playgirl? | ||
| That was for gay dudes. | ||
| It's for gay dudes. | ||
| It's not for chicks. | ||
| They don't want to see that. | ||
| And we don't want to see runways. | ||
| We're not here for runways. | ||
| We get bored easy. | ||
| Bunch of chicks walking around in their underwear. | ||
| Actually, I think you're calling it very... | ||
| You may be right about who the audience is. | ||
| I have no idea on the demographics. | ||
| I've never watched one of these in my life. | ||
| But it's not the case that I believe that the male gaze is nowhere to be found here because... | ||
| It's a very weird thing that the female is largely buying an amplifier for something that is supposed to excite a male, but it's a little bit to me like the female is the magician buying magic supplies at a store for the audience. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| That's a good way of looking at it. | ||
| I don't think the male gaze is absent. | ||
| I just don't buy his interpretation that it's a fantasy for men that's ruined with trans men or trans women. | ||
| I don't have a dog in that fight. | ||
| It seems silly. | ||
| It seems silly. | ||
| It's like if you don't want transgender people to be in there, you just have to say... | ||
| You can't say it ruins the fantasy. | ||
| You just say, we only like hiring people that have vaginas. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Do whatever you want. | ||
| There's certain jobs, if you go to Chippendales, are trans women showing up at trans men? | ||
| Are they at Chippendales? | ||
| Where they're just smooth down there because they don't have a dick, but they're all jacked and they look like a man? | ||
| Is this what women want to see? | ||
| And are they transphobic if they don't want to see that? | ||
| If women go to one of those all-male review shows and it's all trans men, but they're heterosexual and they're not really into trans men, are they all transphobic? | ||
| Yeah, so what I'm trying to get at is there's a hierarchy, like I'm not that interested in this, in the particulars of Victoria's Secret's profitability and what their statements are. | ||
| What I'm more interested in is you've enunciated so many, there's so many different principles at work here as to what should govern in a conflict that you won't tell me Well, okay, when these two beautiful things that you've said actually lie in conflict, how do you resolve the conflicts? | ||
| And it seems to be, well, why don't you consult us on every single one of these and we'll tell you, you know, case by case. | ||
| And that can't work because what I want to know is I don't want to appoint you as an oracle. | ||
| I want you to state what your positions are. | ||
| I want you to state how you harmonize them. | ||
| And then we're having a conversation. | ||
| But as long as I have to keep going to you and your crazy definitions and your, well, this is operative on alternate Tuesdays, then it doesn't work. | ||
| I completely see your point. | ||
| However, you can't give ground. | ||
| You can't give ground to nonsense because that ground is never getting back. | ||
| You're never getting it back. | ||
| If you allow them to establish certain ridiculous principles and rules that are contradictory to each other, they'll come up with a reason why they make sense. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no. | |
| You don't allow them to put it into the workforce. | ||
| You say, look, before we put it into the workforce, Let's just understand the 17 different things that you've said are absolutes. | ||
| Well, you're basically doing then what Jordan does in every single one of these debates. | ||
| You're letting people lay out their idea and then you shoot them down. | ||
| And you decide what's logical and what's illogical. | ||
| I think that's the UFC of ideas. | ||
| And this is why it's important to let these shitty ideas into the match. | ||
| Okay, why do we still have so much... | ||
| Caught up in the Aikido League and the Kung Fu League. | ||
| Because it sounds good. | ||
| People like the idea that you don't have to learn much. | ||
| You can just go in there with a death touch and fuck people up. | ||
| They don't want to think that, oh, you have to practice for 10,000 hours. | ||
| You have to sprawl and work on your leg kicks and work on your Muay Thai clinch. | ||
| So maybe this public shaming is death touch. | ||
| Well, debating. | ||
| These, I think, honestly, and I'm not trying to blow Jordan's horn any more than I already have, but I think what he does is very important because he is one of the few that engages in these people in these very public forums, in these long-form debates where they go to war with ideas. | ||
| And these are way better conversations. | ||
| Because he's fucking good at it. | ||
| They want to chop him down. | ||
| They're not picking you so much. | ||
| Because I'm friendly. | ||
| I'm not as, like... | ||
| I'm not as combative as he is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, I see. | |
| And I'm also not as smart as he is, and I'm also not as, I'm not, I don't have the credentials. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah, you're a meathead. | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I don't have the credentials that he has. | ||
| Like, when he's the University of Toronto professor, he's a PhD, when he's going to war with these people, they're throwing out valiant warriors to die at his sword. | ||
| Well, did you hear what just happened with Brett and Richard Dawkins? | ||
| In Chicago? | ||
| They appeared on stage for the first time. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| Did they oppose each other? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Really? | ||
| On religion. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Well, is Dawkins now religious? | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| Dawkins is staunchly in that sort of new atheist, aggressive God. | ||
| I panicked because I know he had a stroke. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| I thought your brother was an atheist as well. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But Brett doesn't think that religion is a virus. | ||
| It's not parasitizing humans. | ||
| He believes that religion is actually an adaptation. | ||
| And the weird thing was He said, look, there's young Dawkins and there's old Dawkins. | ||
| And young Dawkins came up with these two powerful ideas, the idea that the meme, the unit of ideation, is a gene-like object. | ||
| He also came up with the idea of the extended phenotype. | ||
| So when you talked about that ant mound that you were excavating, that ant mound is in some sense part Of the ant strategy, it's so deeply tied in that you have to consider the ant mound as part of the ant system because it can't exist without that complicated underground city. | ||
| And so what he said was, okay, if I use these two concepts, that memes are like genes and that genes can throw off a bad meme instantly, so memes have to ride on a gene, And they can't parasitize it too much. | ||
| And you also have this inclusive fitness, which is that maybe religions co-travel with us and allow us to outcompete those who don't have them, because they seem to be found everywhere. | ||
| They're so prevalent. | ||
| If you looked at it objectively, not looked at it in terms of how you feel about... | ||
| cult-like behavior and people's susceptibility to influence if you just looked at it objectively if you were from another dimension you'd go well clearly this is a part of being a successful person tell me about it exactly so brett brett and dawkins met and i think dawkins had this kind of reaction like oh crap | ||
| I'm meeting an ultra-Darwinist who's read my work, taken it seriously, and is feeding it back in and saying, you, Richard Dawkins, in your younger years, established ideas who, when those ideas' logical consequences are explored, it completely negates your late-life hatred for religion. | ||
| Because it reveals it to be an adaptation rather than a parasitization of the human species. | ||
| You know the real problem that I've always had with Dawkins and his take on religion is not that he's wrong or they're right. | ||
| It's his anger that he has when he's talking to people that believe. | ||
| He sets up the kind of like heavy conflict That, you know, the way people interact with each other, the reactions are very dependent upon the attitude that a person has when they go into this interaction. | ||
| You know, two people meet on the street, one person meets that person, says the same words, and they wind up hugging. | ||
| Another person meets that person and has a fist fight. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like, what's the difference? | ||
| Well, there's a lot of it is the way you approach people. | ||
| A lot of it is the way you accept people's ideas, the way you communicate with them, the way you allow them to fully express themselves without judgment, and he doesn't buy any of that. | ||
| He feels like there's a war going on, and he's got to shut down religion as quickly as possible. | ||
| Well, that's the thing. | ||
| He wanted to... | ||
| No, go ahead. | ||
| He wanted to fashion science into a cudgel that was maximally efficient for beating the crap out of religion. | ||
| That's a great way to put it. | ||
| And what Brett did is to say, actually, your scientific work goes in the exact opposite direction. | ||
| The reason I brought it up was it was one of these unexpected occurrences that when you have a meeting of these things, and this is your point about the UFC, is that the mixed martial arts thing is, hey, we don't know what's going to work. | ||
| We don't know what's going to happen. | ||
| Nobody knows anything yet. | ||
| And gradually, we came to understand that there were certain systems that were hyper-effective and that even those could get – you were making the point earlier about Brazilian jiu-jitsu didn't keep advancing at the same level once we understood the role of all of these different systems in advancing fighting. | ||
| So the question that I'm having repeatedly is, what kept Brett and Dawkins, for example, from having that meeting? | ||
| Where I think Dawkins probably didn't fully understand what he was getting into when he agreed to appear with an evolutionary theorist on stage. | ||
| But don't you think that he's just very confident in his ideas? | ||
| He's very confident in his intellectual capabilities? | ||
| He's been doing these type of debates and shutting down these secular people or these people that are, I mean, from various religions, right? | ||
| I mean, he's had these debates with people from Judaism, from Christianity. | ||
| He's been, it's part of his career. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, and even, what the fuck's his name? | ||
| The Indian fellow who everybody makes fun of. | ||
| is his name. | ||
| Dinesh D'Souza? | ||
| No, the other guy. | ||
| The quantum guy that's always using the word Deepak Chopra. | ||
| That guy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That guy. | ||
| That guy is constantly using inappropriate quantum words. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And he throws quantum into fucking vegetable soup and tries to make it to make sense. | ||
| He used a lot of word salad. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know? | ||
| And I mean, I've seen him debate him too. | ||
| Yeah, but you like these videos of the fake martial arts guys, and they show up for the challenge because they've actually bought it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Same with Deepak. | ||
| Well, this is what I'm trying to get at. | ||
| Isn't it interesting that, in general, the people who say immigration is a pure good, there is no connection between Islam and terror, The only people who oppose free trade or protection is these people know enough not to want to trounce us. | ||
| Because what they're saying is wrong, right? | ||
| And they're expert enough to know that they've got a secret five-point exploding heart technique or something. | ||
| And they know it's nonsense. | ||
| And so they won't actually... | ||
| I don't think they do. | ||
| Well, then why don't they want in? | ||
| I don't think they necessarily do actually believe that they're wrong. | ||
| I do think that some of these people that are like super progressive and very committed to some of these maybe illogical positions on some of these ideas are afraid of conflict though. | ||
| And I think that's one of the reasons why they shy towards progressivism, towards socialism. | ||
| I don't think they like conflict. | ||
| Some of them don't. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| They like to get together and scream at people. | ||
| This is what they like to get together in large groups and say, we know where you sleep. | ||
| You fucking racist. | ||
| You fucking piece of shit. | ||
| But one-on-one, they're cowards. | ||
| This is the type of person that would think it's a good idea to show up and bang on someone's door and scare them in their home. | ||
| That type of person is not the type of person that looks forward to on an even battlefield engaging someone one-on-one and just Just open communication. | ||
| That's not what they're doing. | ||
| What they're doing is trying to silence people, scare people, intimidate people. | ||
| They're bullies, intellectual bullies. | ||
| People who are bullies are almost always insecure. | ||
| They're almost always scared. | ||
| So this is why there's been very few people that are jumping forward to try to go to intellectual war. | ||
| But wouldn't Rachel Maddow or... | ||
| Linda Sarsour won in. | ||
| You're dealing with two very different types of human beings. | ||
| Rachel Maddow is one thing. | ||
| Linda Sarsour is a very, very seriously religious person who's got some very deep beliefs as far as Islam. | ||
| She wears the hijab. | ||
| Two totally different things. | ||
| But if I listed a group of people, like the late night comedians. | ||
| There's this very weird thing that they all seem to believe the same. | ||
| Like there was a secret meeting that they all agreed to a bunch of stuff that I want to see the conference proceedings. | ||
| Like what's – how so? | ||
| Well, just that they all kind of know that the Republicans are all horrible. | ||
| The Democrats are basically good people that – they all know that climate science is settled science. | ||
| I mean, there's some that they have these pretty much open borders are a great thing, and that everybody who doesn't believe in that is only not believing it because of xenophobia. | ||
| Whatever these set of beliefs are, I don't see these guys in open discussion, particularly, you know, two hours long. | ||
| Well, I don't think it's a... | ||
| Could you get Stephen Colbert or Seth Meyers in here and have a discussion? | ||
| My guess is... | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah, I'm sure. | ||
| I'm sure. | ||
| I'm sure they'd be... | ||
| It's not like they're scared of having discussions with people, but they would have to be very measured because they could lose their job. | ||
| It's not that simple. | ||
| They make a tremendous amount of money. | ||
| If they came and said anything that could be misconstrued or misinterpreted even, not even actually being something that's actually transphobic or actually homophobic or actually xenophobic, if they said anything that could be taken out of context and put in a small clip and then sent out and it goes virally, they're done. | ||
| Look at Megyn Kelly. | ||
| Megyn Kelly had a question about why can't you wear makeup to look like Diana Ross? | ||
| Why can't you? | ||
| Well, there's some good reasons why you can't. | ||
| There's some good racial history behind blackface. | ||
| However, why is it that she can't even ask a question without losing her job? | ||
| Like, that's it! | ||
| Pull the plug! | ||
| We have to make a fucking statement! | ||
| We abhor violence! | ||
| We abhor racism! | ||
| That's exactly what you said about the whole kung fu thing, that it only can exist in a protected context. | ||
| Well, first of all, someone like Megyn Kelly can only exist in a protected contest. | ||
| All these people in a protected contest. | ||
| Stephen Colbert has, like, got to be one of the fastest minds on the planet. | ||
| Everybody I know who's smart, who's done his show, says he just thinks faster than you do. | ||
| Well, I'm sure he's a very smart guy. | ||
| Yeah, I'm sure he is. | ||
| He's quick on his feet. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But... | ||
| But he's also a Catholic. | ||
| Devout. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't... | |
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, it doesn't bother me. | ||
| It bothers me. | ||
| It doesn't bother me. | ||
| It's an organization of kid fuckers. | ||
| Well, how come he's not speaking out against all those kids getting fucked? | ||
| Well, that's... | ||
| If you're a Catholic... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, I was raised Catholic. | ||
| I mean, I'm not saying that he is. | ||
| I'm not saying that the people he knows are. | ||
| But this is a giant problem with that organization. | ||
| But that's not what's not bothering me. | ||
| What's not bothering... | ||
| Does that bother you? | ||
| I want to make sure that we're talking... | ||
| I think we're about to talk past each other, so I want to bring it back. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| I think you just gave me an answer, which is he can't appear in this kind of a context because that might come up. | ||
| And he needs to be in a world with much more restricted rules. | ||
| Where someone can't say it's an organization of kid fuckers. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But that's not just more restricted worlds. | ||
| That's the reason why that has been able to survive. | ||
| That's what I'm trying to get at. | ||
| Is that people don't talk about that. | ||
| But is the idea that this is such a – like your point about Aikido was if you happen to be unarmed and attacked by a man with a sword, this might have some value. | ||
| It would have some value if someone attacked you in a very specific way and didn't understand Aikido. | ||
| So the idea is that that's a very restricted rule set on which to fight, right? | ||
| So now maybe what you just said to me, which could open this whole thing up, is that all of these people can only apply their ability to have a back and forth of ideas If the rules are heavily restricted? | ||
| I don't necessarily think that's the case. | ||
| I think they could do it in other ways. | ||
| I think all of them are operating under this rule system because this rule system is how they get paid. | ||
| But I think Seth Meyers is a very smart guy. | ||
| I know Jimmy Kimmel. | ||
| He's a very smart guy. | ||
| They could do whatever they want. | ||
| He could do a podcast. | ||
| He could do anything. | ||
| He could operate in any genre, I believe. | ||
| I would imagine the same with Colbert. | ||
| I mean, I think Jimmy Fallon, same thing. | ||
| But when they're forced into that box, and this is a hundred million dollar a year box, you know, it feels good in that box. | ||
| It's fucking velvet walls and you get to drive a fat Mercedes and live in Beverly Hills. | ||
| You decide to stay in that box. | ||
| Maybe their mind is in that box. | ||
| Maybe they operate on a regular basis. | ||
| Maybe there's not any restriction for them at all because this is how they operate all the time. | ||
| I did the show with Jordan and Ben Shapiro on Dave's set right before Ben went on Real Time with Bill Maher. | ||
| And Ben was kind of excited to do Bill Maher. | ||
| He said, I don't think he's going to rough me up. | ||
| I think he's going to be a gentleman. | ||
| I think he's one of us. | ||
| And then when Ben sat down with Bill, we saw this thing that was very – we were sort of hoping because Bill is kind of the most towards us of anybody in that kind of mainstream environment. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| And what I saw, which I hadn't really appreciated, was that Bill was not doing this kind of open discussion thing. | ||
| A lot of his tone was leading, like, surely you're not going to say that. | ||
| You know, it wasn't just purely saying, are you saying that? | ||
| It was all of this emotional instruction. | ||
| And it was clear to me that... | ||
| When I saw Ben in that context, there were only a few hours separating the two appearances, and that the characteristics of that environment, and where Bill's show is the most like this show, that it's just too different. | ||
| It's not really the same ecosystem, and you couldn't have an open debate. | ||
| Unless it cuts off after seven minutes and the host is in control. | ||
| Well, Bill doesn't have any time. | ||
| This is part of the problem. | ||
| It's part of it. | ||
| They have a very restricted format. | ||
| He was doing a conversation with Steve Bannon, and he was on Sam Harris' podcast, and he was talking about it, and he said that one of the problems was he got to this point where he was like, I wanted to ask him more stuff, but I ran out of time. | ||
| And I heard that, and I was like, what the fuck kind of ancient system are you operating under that you run out of time? | ||
| Well, he definitely did run out of time. | ||
| Assume that that's true. | ||
| Assume that Bill Maher said, hey guys, I want the following situation. | ||
| I want to continue to do real time in the same format that it's always been done. | ||
| But I want to have a podcast like Rogan where we take as much time as we need. | ||
| And I don't think those two things play together. | ||
| Oh, they're fine together. | ||
| Yeah, I think they're fine together. | ||
| I'll bet you beer that they're not. | ||
| Well, here's the thing. | ||
| He went on Sam's podcast, and I enjoyed him more than I enjoy him on his show. | ||
| I know. | ||
| Tucker didn't look the same way on Dave Rubin's show, though. | ||
| He looked totally different. | ||
| How do you look? | ||
| I didn't see it. | ||
| Oh, my God, you got to see it. | ||
| You know, Tucker, you know, I'm having my own weird issues where I used to, you know, my previous position was that Fox News is just propaganda and that Tucker was in that old crossfire situation way back when. | ||
| Tucker was opening up as a different person, saying, you have the freedom, you're the new, I'm still stuck in the old. | ||
| Well, he must really feel that. | ||
| He must really feel like he is. | ||
| Look, that is what you have to do if you want to survive on Fox News. | ||
| And again, it's a velvet coffin. | ||
| You're in there. | ||
| It's beautiful. | ||
| You're getting paid shitloads of money. | ||
| But you don't necessarily have the freedom to express. | ||
| First of all, you don't have long-form freedom. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And you don't have the freedom to completely express yourself across the border. | ||
| You can't look at the left's ideas and say, you know what, I really like the idea of universal health care. | ||
| I really like the idea of universal basic income. | ||
| I really like the idea of paying for people's school. | ||
| But Joe, I think you and I actually have a really interesting difference of opinion. | ||
| I think your opinion is there's nothing preventing you from staying in the Velvet Coffin and doing this style of podcast. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| I'm not saying that. | ||
| I'm only saying that with Bill Maher. | ||
| I think Tucker Carlson probably can't do that. | ||
| I think Tucker Carlson left. | ||
| Could Colbert do it? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| I think he could. | ||
| I don't think he would, though. | ||
| I think he, out of all of them, and I think he's brilliant. | ||
| Don't get me wrong. | ||
| And when I said he's from an organization of kid fuckers, it's not him. | ||
| I mean, but he's a part of the Catholic. | ||
| But you could do Seth Meyer. | ||
| You could do any one of these people. | ||
| They're all bright and gifted people. | ||
| The Catholic thing is a big thing. | ||
| I mean, it's a big thing in terms of, first of all, the actual reality of the organization and what they've done to protect people that have molested children. | ||
| It's unprecedented. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's also something that I was raised in. | ||
| I mean, I was Catholic. | ||
| I went to Catholic school. | ||
| I don't think that he wants to do that sort of wild country, open-type internet show. | ||
| I think he enjoys wearing a tie and doing a straight-up talk show like the Johnny Carson show or the Jay Leno show, and I think he's very, very good at it. | ||
| And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. | ||
| I think a lot of people like that format. | ||
| Okay, that's on preference, and I understand that. | ||
| But I think that's him. | ||
| I might be wrong. | ||
| I'm just assuming. | ||
| I'm claiming that there's a drug interaction. | ||
| Seth Meyers could do different. | ||
| A what? | ||
| A what interaction? | ||
| That if you tried to do both of these things, you would be revealed – you'd be caught between two worlds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I see what you're saying. | |
| Like I actually think that a lot of these ideas would collapse just the way Kung Fu collapsed. | ||
| I think you're probably right. | ||
| I think if you had two people having these conversations in long form instead of those CNN three windows where they're just battling it out for six minutes and then everybody's yelling over everybody, that is the single worst way to argue ideas. | ||
| I think there's no Gracie challenge. | ||
| There's not. | ||
| Well, Jordan Peterson is kind of doing his own Gracie challenge. | ||
| It's only about gender. | ||
| Yeah, and he's the only one they want. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Which is, I think, a puzzle. | ||
| He's the hoist crazy of the intellectual dark web. | ||
| He's the hoist crazy. | ||
| He is! | ||
| He's out there tapping wrestlers. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, I think... | ||
| Legitimately, he's worked his way past the Kung Fu people and he's now on to Olympic wrestlers. | ||
| They're throwing at him. | ||
| This latest woman was very good. | ||
| She's much better than that Kathy Newman lady. | ||
| She didn't make any of these ridiculous straw man arguments. | ||
| She came at him with her positions and her points. | ||
| It was interesting. | ||
| I think what you're saying is true for everybody except Bill Maher. | ||
| I think Bill Maher would hold his positions in podcast form, and I think he would just have more time to expand on them, and I base this on him being on Sam Harris' show, and I find it to be very good. | ||
| It was the 10th anniversary of Religious, and he was excellent on there. | ||
| I think he could do it. | ||
| But I think he's also, he can say, fuck you. | ||
| He got in trouble for dropping an N-bomb on his show in a joking form. | ||
| I mean, he's a different cat. | ||
| The whole thing is very different with him. | ||
| He's on HBO. But when Ice Cube came to him and said, you can't do that, it was painful to me because I was positive that he had a Carlin-style attitude about that word. | ||
| That's tough. | ||
| Because in this environment, again, that's where he makes his living. | ||
| He butters his bread over at HBO. And if you wanted to have a long-form conversation with that guy, even on a podcast, and he didn't have an HBO show, that's one thing. | ||
| But if you do have an HBO show, you have to have a totally different attitude because you're walking a goddamn tightrope. | ||
| But this is what I'm trying to get at, is that we are too dangerous, in some sense, to play with. | ||
| He's asked, I've talked, Bill and I actually went back and forth on an email about something. | ||
| I think I dropped the ball, but no, he would do anybody's podcast. | ||
| I don't think that's the case. | ||
| He could do his own podcast as well. | ||
| I agree that he would be the one most likely to be able to do both. | ||
| He could do it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He could do it. | ||
| I think all of them could do it. | ||
| I think Seth Meyers could do it too. | ||
| I think Jimmy Kimmel could probably do it as good or better than any of them. | ||
| Jimmy absolutely could do it. | ||
| I mean, the only thing that's holding him back, he's a man of his ideas. | ||
| He's probably the least likely to alter or manipulate his ideas of anybody that's ever done one of those late night talk show hosts. | ||
| He's just operating inside a format where you don't swear, and you have a certain amount of time, and you try to be funny, and you say insightful stuff. | ||
| But he's a very ethical guy, and he's also a very, very smart guy, and he's also very rich. | ||
| He's got a shitload of fuck you money. | ||
| And I think Jimmy Kimmel could do it easily. | ||
| I think a lot of people could do it easily, and I think they're going to have to. | ||
| I think some point along the line, they're going to realize that the restrictions that they're operating under, unless they really enjoy that format... | ||
| I don't think those formats are going to be there that long. | ||
| I think those formats are a lot like sitcoms. | ||
| They're slowly starting to vanish. | ||
| For every one Roseanne show that comes up, which is kind of nostalgic and that runs into its own disaster, how many new sitcoms are there that everybody's aware of? | ||
| Shit, it used to be every time there was a new sitcom, whether it was Friends or Fill in the Blank, whatever the show, Seinfeld, everybody was talking about these new sitcoms. | ||
| Nobody fucking talks about sitcoms anymore. | ||
| Well, this is the... | ||
| This is the thing I took on this morning on Twitter, which was Dave Rubin and Brett Weinstein and myself were talking about this phenomena of very high follower counts with psycho low engagement. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Oh yeah, that's fake. | ||
| Those are fake followers. | ||
| That's what that is. | ||
| Well, it may be, but... | ||
| It's a lot of it. | ||
| But it's very interesting that we're talking about getting rid of visible follower counts and getting rid of likes. | ||
| Who's saying that? | ||
| Apparently there's discussion about Jack may have floated some trial balloons that Twitter is going to try to improve the level of conversation. | ||
| And by getting rid of follower counts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And removing likes. | ||
| Can you imagine thinking that you're going to improve the level of conversation by getting rid of a heart that you can put on someone's idea? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, it's feedback. | |
| It's not a heart. | ||
| But it's a heart. | ||
| It's literally a heart. | ||
| But it's feedback. | ||
| But you're clicking on a heart. | ||
| It's on Instagram and on Twitter. | ||
| It's a heart. | ||
| It's a like. | ||
| Here's your little heart. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| You're going to get rid of love? | ||
| Jack. | ||
| Come on, Jack. | ||
| You're going to get rid of love? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You're a terrifying human being, Joe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why? | |
| What? | ||
| What's terrifying about that? | ||
| Well, because I'm seeing you blowing kisses in my general direction. | ||
| I'm remembering all the videos I've watched where you attack some sort of a punching bag with this vicious spinning elbow or something. | ||
| I'm just thinking like, okay. | ||
| Listen, you can't... | ||
| We're talking about ideas here. | ||
| You can't... | ||
| No, I want to get out on that stuff later. | ||
| I want to have my midlife crisis with some instruction from you. | ||
| I think we've got to end this thing. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| We've done four hours and ten minutes, right? | ||
| Are you kidding me? | ||
| I'll just show you what they said, though. | ||
| This was just a couple weeks ago. | ||
| This is their... | ||
| We've been saying for a while, we are rethinking everything about the service to ensure we are incentivizing healthy conversation that includes the like button. | ||
| We are in the early stages of the work and have no plans to share right now. | ||
| And this is in response to the Telegraph saying, Twitter to remove the like tool and the bid to improve the quality of debate. | ||
| Yeah, I think something really weird is going on. | ||
| Well, I mean, what is the quality of debate and by whose definition? | ||
| I mean, you're definitely not going to change the way people interact with each other. | ||
| You're just not. | ||
| People interact with each other because they're anonymous. | ||
| They have the incentive to talk shit. | ||
| It's fun. | ||
| Okay, so the one thing I could ask as we close this thing out is if we could plug not only my Twitter, which is my main thing, but I'm trying to diversify into Instagram and YouTube should I get shut off Twitter. | ||
| Oh, shit. | ||
| Are you worried about getting shut off? | ||
| I'm always worried. | ||
| But you don't say anything inflammatory. | ||
| You're a very logical and reasonable guy. | ||
| So, you think it's really gotten to that point? | ||
| Well, yeah. | ||
| I'm actually worried that by being logical and reasonable, I have more of a risk because the things that I'm saying... | ||
| You're also a recognized intellectual and very left-wing. | ||
| You're progressive. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, why would they shut you off? | ||
| Oh, I think because they're much more worried about a progressive who says that the current progressiveness is absolute stupidity. | ||
| That's much more dangerous than some right-winger who's always against anything that's progressive. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Interesting. | ||
| There's a war afoot. | ||
| You love that kind of stuff. | ||
| You love that cloak and dagger type shit, don't you? | ||
| Yeah, well, I'm part of the ineffectual dork web. | ||
| You don't want to coin it. | ||
| I watch your stuff. | ||
| I don't say ineffectual. | ||
| I say intellectual dork. | ||
| No, you said international dork. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| International dork web. | ||
| Yeah, that's what I call it. | ||
| Listen, I have to. | ||
| I can't call myself a part of the dark web. | ||
| That's just too ridiculous for a man in my position. | ||
| Okay, we'll see you at the secret hideout later tonight. | ||
| I'm one of a thousand people. | ||
| That speak the humor across the lands. | ||
| Listen, this is effortless. | ||
| Yeah, I could do this for hours. | ||
| I had no idea it was four hours. | ||
| Flew by! | ||
| Fucking flew by. | ||
| It was awesome. | ||
| Can I just give the names? | ||
| Please do. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| I think I am... | ||
| It really is 510. Jesus. | ||
| Eric R. Weinstein on Twitter. | ||
| I'm Eric R. Weinstein on Twitter. | ||
| I'm Eric Weinstein PhD, I think, on Instagram. | ||
| And on my Instagram... | ||
| I linked you on the Instagram. | ||
| Okay, so I'm ericrweinstein on Instagram, and I'm on YouTube, ericweinsteinphd. | ||
| Yeah, and if you can't find his Instagram, I linked it on my Instagram. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Joe, thanks for having me, buddy. | ||
| Thank you, my friend. | ||
| Lots of fun. |
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