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Sept. 26, 2018 - The Joe Rogan Experience

02:54:44

Joe Rogan Experience #1174 - Vinnie Paz

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joe rogan

02:46:19

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jamie vernon

00:16

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Heh.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If they don't fuck up, I don't trust them.
		My father used to say, if someone doesn't say the word fuck, or if their name is an initial, don't trust them.
		Yeah, that's a creepy one.
unidentified		Initials are creepy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		But you never know.
		It's not a hard, fast rule.
		No, I give everyone the fair shake, but I'm looking...
		Yeah, hmm.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If they frickin', if they're all the time, it's frickin' this and frickin'.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Or Mickey Fickey.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I heard that one time.
		Oh, I never heard that one.
		Yeah, someone said Mickey Fickey.
		Said a motherfucker.
		Yeah, I wasn't happy about it.
		Shut the front door is one like moms like to do around their kids.
		I come from a WAP South Philly family so it's like a fucking Richard Pryor You know, the Seven Fishes on Christmas Eve is like him on the Sunset Strip.
		You know who surprisingly doesn't swear?
		Teddy Atlas.
		I know Teddy doesn't.
		I've seen, you know, animated he, I don't have to tell you, he was just on the show.
		Very animated, but yeah, he doesn't really.
		He gets very animated.
		Yeah, it's like frickin' this and frickin' that.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		What the frick?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He says, what the frick?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's nuts.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know who also doesn't swear?
		Henry Rollins.
		Rollins does not.
		Does not swear.
		Yeah, but...
		And he makes note of it.
		Note that I don't swear...
		I mean, I feel like that happened in the second half of his life because Black Flag records, not so much.
		Yeah, I think he's trying to get...
		I don't want to say more people to listen to him like trying to be more mainstream, but he's trying to eliminate the noise in what he's doing.
		Sure.
		He's a brilliant mind.
unidentified		He is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Unlike me.
		I mean, you're really...
		Rogan, you've hit a little snag here.
		Teddy Atlas, Jordan Peterson, Shapiro, Henry Rollins, then this.
		No, dude.
		I love your music.
		Fuck out of here.
		You were saying about fuck-ups before the show.
		I don't know anybody who's an artist who doesn't fuck things up.
		There's something about being legitimately creative.
		There has to be something wrong with you.
		Well, you're wired differently.
		So what people perceive as fucking up isn't to us.
		So technically it's a fuck-up, but in reality to us it's just...
		It's just how it works, I think.
unidentified		It's just traits.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
		If you were working in an office in human resources, there's no way.
		I'd be gone in like three hours.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		But before that, I'd probably put a bullet through my head if I was in a cubicle.
		Just give up at that point.
		Some people can do it, though.
		Some people, it's not a problem.
		No.
		They're just wired that way.
		I knew from such an early age that Now I'm not wired this way, you know what I'm saying?
		Yeah, me too.
		I was terrified of getting a job when I was a child.
		Yeah, it's fearful, but what you've done though, man, I've told you how much of a fan I am, but I'm such a fan of how punk rock, you've built all of this outside of what you were expected to do.
		This show is a fuck you, really.
		It's just what it is.
		You know what I mean?
		This is what happens when you don't calculate.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When there's no...
		You just do what you want to do.
		Yeah.
		This is what happens.
		But people don't have the balls to do that.
		It's a little bit balls.
unidentified		It's a little bit...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fear Factor gave me a lot of financial freedom.
unidentified		Sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That helped too.
		Sure.
		News Radio?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		News Radio did a little bit, but Fear Factor did way more.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It just gave me enough money so I go, okay, the money part I got.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So now let's just have some fun.
		Sure.
		But look what it's become.
		It changed people's lives, man.
unidentified		That's weird.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the weird part.
		That wasn't anticipated.
		It wasn't part of the plan.
		It was just supposed to be smoking weed and having a good time.
		Well, you're not aware until you're aware.
		Until people say, yo, you've helped me through tough times.
		People tell me about your show.
		Yo, that guy gets me through tough times.
		And that's...
		What's more important than that?
		Well, people need friends, you know, and they need community.
		And one of the things that this show has shown by having all my friends on all the time is that this is a tight group of people that love each other and care about each other and want to promote that way of thinking and being.
		You can do that.
		You can get through life and all support each other.
		This backstabby bullshit that people get involved in, that is so detrimental to you, to them, to everyone, to the sense of community that you create around each other.
		A clip of yours went viral of you talking about just keep negative people the fuck away from me.
		I had that around me, and it was draining my spirit.
		It's one of the worst things.
		But when you're living a certain way, and everything's fast, it's the same with comedy, and you're on the road, and you're grinding it out, you can't always analyze, you can't always step back and say, this is why things are fucked up, because everything's moving so fast.
		And it wasn't until I took that time and said, there's cancers in my life.
		They're basically emotional barnacles.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
		And once you cut the cancer out, you see how different things become.
		And it's kind of...
		I didn't realize it was that easy.
		Yeah, you can do it.
		You can do it.
		But to them, too, it's a good lesson for them to be cast aside.
		And for them, if they're smart or if they have some awareness or some objectivity, they're going to look at themselves and say, you know what?
		I'm a fucking mess.
		Yeah.
		Like, I'm negative all the time and people don't want to be around me.
		I was real negative when I was younger.
		So was I. Yeah, it's not something that's insurmountable.
		You can get over it.
		Yeah, and it's whatever...
		Whatever hands you've been dealt, you have to realize the reality of the situation, bro.
		There's people living in mud huts and places that are smiling.
		And I have the balls to be complaining about...
		Your tour.
		Right!
		And not getting enough sleep, or I don't like to travel.
		You just really have to assess that and say, this isn't the way I should be thinking or processing information.
		We're blessed to do what we do, you know what I mean?
		You make people laugh, bro, for a living.
		I know.
		There's also a balance that you can achieve between discipline and the creative people, like we were talking about, like yourself, who are just off, you know, hand tattoos, wacky, to something about, you know, people see you, they're like, what the fuck is this guy doing?
		They'll follow you when you're walking through a store.
		Sure.
		There's a balance between that and then real disciplined people, like, you know, fucking Navy Seal type cats.
		You learn from them, too.
		Sure.
		And you go, well, you can incorporate some of that into your life as well, and it helps balance out all the wacky creative aspects of it, and it makes you a little bit more productive, a little bit happier, a little bit...
		You know, Dead Presence had a song, Discipline Makes Things Easier.
		Yes.
		It's a great fucking song.
unidentified		It is.
		It's a great song.
		It is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because it's real.
		It really does.
		Discipline makes things easier.
		It is real.
unidentified		Organize your life.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, for me, when I feel most happy, of course you know because of how you live, but...
		Your body feeds into how your mind works, too.
		When I was talking about those horrible negative years, it was also dictated by terrible diet.
		Not that I'm in great shape or anything now, but I've changed things.
		And I felt it.
		Up here.
		You know what I mean?
		That's what people don't think.
		You feel it in your brain.
		I feel like a different person, man.
		After I spar a little bit or whatever it is, I feel different.
		I get more energy where you would think logic would dictate you would get tired.
		I'm like, now I'm ready to write.
		Crazy, right?
		You know what I mean?
		It's counterintuitive.
		It is.
		But again, like you said, it's discipline.
		My mother's making gravy and meatballs.
		It's hard to say, Mom, settle down.
		You can eat that once a week.
unidentified		Sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Once a week, you just go whole hog.
		Sure.
		Gravy, that's such an East Coast Italian word.
		That was my grandparents in New Jersey.
		It was gravy.
		I apologize to everyone that's not in New York, Philly, and Jersey right now.
		It's barely New York.
		It's not Manhattan.
		Nah, they'll fight you.
		They'll say, it's sauce.
		Listen, man, it's fucking gravy, man.
		Let's not do this.
		Yeah, gravy's New Jersey.
		New Jersey, like old school Italian soprano style.
		Yes.
unidentified		That's gravy.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Philly's gravy.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Then you go south of Philly, it becomes sauce again.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's fucking good no matter what.
		It is good.
		It's weird how, like, if you go to, have you been to Italy?
		Yes.
		A lot of my family's still over there.
		The food is fucking fantastic.
		Next level.
		But it's a different kind of food.
		What Italian-Americans did is a totally different cuisine.
		Yeah, it's interesting, right?
		It is.
unidentified		The meatballs, the lasagna.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They will put some shit in front of you that you don't know what it is.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's have at it.
		Yeah, the Italian food in Italy is lighter.
		Yes.
		It's a lot more fish.
		And then you have the regions.
		If you're north, if you're south, if you're in Sigi.
		It is odd.
		It was culture shock just to think of what I've been eating for my mother's food and grandparents.
		You know what I mean?
		It's just different.
		My grandmother was fresh off the boat and she used to cook everything from scratch.
		Tomato sauce from scratch.
		Everything.
unidentified		The pasta.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She would roll the pasta herself.
		She would do everything.
		She would make her own bread.
		She would do everything.
		Everything from scratch.
		The bread was occasional because a lot of times when they lived in New Jersey, there was a store that they would go to, a bread place, that you would go and buy fresh bread basically every couple days.
		Sure.
		And it would go bad within hours.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because it was real bread.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And without 8,000 preservatives.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dude, I had a piece of bread the other day and it was sitting on the kitchen table for like a few hours.
		I left, I went back.
		It was still soft as fuck because it's all filled with chemicals.
		Of course, man.
		Everything is.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Everything is.
		It's like when you realize that there's fluoride in our drinking water and people are just all right with that.
		Yeah.
		I'm not sure that that should be there.
unidentified		I've read that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I've read about Floyd and the drinking water, like the pros and cons.
		The pros don't make any sense to me.
		Not to me.
		Like, brush your fucking teeth, bitch.
		Yeah, man.
		Like, use toothpaste.
		Yeah.
		I mean, you know, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I don't think it should be in our drinking water.
		Well, it's, you know, and then you get into all the conspiracy theories.
		That's when you've got to wade through all the bullshit.
unidentified		Like, okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was a Nazi plot to soften minds and...
		Was it?
		Or is it just like...
		I feel like somebody's just got a lot of fluoride they're trying to sell.
unidentified		And they got some sort of a deal with the government to dump it into the water.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's probably more logical.
		But the thing is, with all that conspiracy shit, you have to sift through shit because there are kernels in there.
		That's the problem.
		Right.
		But they like that.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The more ridiculous...
		The more ridiculous the theories, the better it is for them because it seems more ridiculous in that you're a loon.
		Yeah.
		Oh, you mean they're like the government.
		Whoever.
		Whoever's dumping the fluoride.
		Yeah, whoever they is.
		Shaking them bags of fluoride into the reservoir.
		Remember when your grandmom used to say, they?
		And you go, who's they?
unidentified		Right, right, right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They say that you're not supposed to.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I just go, who's they?
unidentified		Who are they?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Who are they?
		But whoever they is, whatever they're doing, the more ridiculous things seem, it nullifies some more realistic things like what they're pumping into food, into cattle, steroids in cattle.
		Like for me, when we were younger, bro, white girls didn't have fat asses.
		Yeah, but they learned squats.
		You think that's what it is?
		I don't think it has to do with cattle.
		I really don't.
		If you think it's squats...
		There's a lot of white girls out there with flat asses to this day.
		There is.
		They're just lazy.
		All right.
		I'm going to trust you because you...
unidentified		I'm telling you, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I believe you.
		You're a gym guy.
		Most of what's going on with food is not steroids.
		Most of what's going on with food is antibiotics because they're getting sick from eating corn.
		Okay.
		If you watch...
		There's a great documentary, King Corn.
		Okay.
		And it documents how a lot of cows have huge issues digesting all that corn.
		It's not a natural thing for them.
unidentified		They're supposed to eat grass.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure, sure.
		It fattens them the fuck up and makes them quite tasty.
		Sure.
		But it's really not what they're supposed to be eating.
		That's interesting.
		Yeah.
		I mean, I guess I always start...
		Chemically speaking, that's what was being pumped into everything.
		Nah, because it's expensive.
		They don't need to do it either.
		In Mexico, they still do it.
		That's how Canelo got popped.
		Allegedly.
		On an air quote, allegedly.
		That's how he got clembuterol in the system.
		If anyone thinks clembuterol came from a steak, I got a fucking bridge to sell you.
		But you can get it from a steak, unfortunately.
		Oh, yeah.
		No, there's fighters that say, oh, no, I train in Mexico.
		Someone recently said, I don't see his name, a fighter said, yeah, I eat it and it's got clen in it.
		And they're like, then why didn't you get popped?
		He's like, because I don't inject it.
		That was his line, you know?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well...
		Without a doubt, there's some shenanigans going on in all combat sports and all professional sports.
		You get a little edge.
		That's just the money involved.
		Of course.
		Being able to...
		Yeah, and Teddy loses his mind with that.
		You know what I mean?
		Rightly so.
		When someone's that passionate about anything, I mean, the guy's just like, Jesus, man.
		Yeah, he's a treasure.
		He is.
		He's an American treasure.
		Yeah, he is.
		He was great, man.
		Amazing.
		His story's about his dad.
		Did you hear it?
		Did you hear the podcast?
		I watched half of it, but I read his book.
		And, you know, Teddy was a goon, man.
		You know what I mean?
		Well, that's where he got that slice on the side of his face.
		Yeah, his face was hanging off.
		Yeah, it's crazy.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, well, the Jordan Peterson, I mean, I'm in awe of that guy.
		Yeah, he's a really fascinating gentleman.
		He is.
		He is, and just scary smart.
		Yeah.
		You know, I would just crumble trying to have a conversation with the guy.
		You wouldn't, though.
		You would catch up.
		That's what happens when you're around...
		Probably a couple days later, my friend.
		But the thing about people like that is, like, if you are around a certain caliber of thinker, then your vibration sort of matches their vibration.
		When you're around people that are way smarter than you, you realize, like, oh, there's some shortcuts to thinking that I'm taking, and then there's some pitfalls in the way I analyze things, and these people don't have those things, and then my vocabulary is stunted.
		Maybe I should increase my vocabulary.
		Maybe I should start reading more, reading the things, and...
		With most people, it's the same thing as with fitness.
		It's the amount of how much time you put in for how long.
		And that's the same thing with your intellect.
		It's the same thing with your emotional stability.
		It's how much energy and effort and focus have you put into it and for how long.
		Yeah, of course.
		But like you said, though, to be around someone like him...
		You're naturally going to fall into a line of thinking where, wow, this guy's got a lot of shit.
		His understanding, his calmness, man.
		I can't see that guy being rattled.
		I've watched debates and he's so confident in what he believes.
		You know what I'm saying?
		He's thought things through.
		He's not a silly person.
		I think I am, so that's the problem there.
		Yeah, I am too.
		Yeah, I'm a nitwit.
		So watching him, it's humbling to watch someone like him that's got it together and has that level of understanding because I spend a lot of my life trying to get to that level of understanding.
		So to watch someone that's there, it's just humbling.
		I'm just curious where he's gonna go because him being known is relatively new.
		This isn't a guy who's been a couple years, right?
		Well, he's what you would call a public superstar intellectual now.
		That's a new thing.
		It is.
	It really hasn't existed over the last decade or so.
	No.
	It hasn't been.
	And now they're starting.
	And I think because of YouTube and podcasts and things along those lines, these guys are getting super popular.
	I mean, he's selling out places where fucking Iron Maiden plays.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he's...
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
		And he talks about philosophy and life.
		Yeah.
		And if you told me that a place where Maiden would sell out, someone would go talk to a modern day philosopher.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't believe that.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because it's idiocracy now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, he only eats meat.
unidentified		That's all he eats.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Yeah, he's on this carnivore diet.
		Really?
		No vegetables at all.
		Wow.
		Nothing.
		Salt and meat and water.
		Wow.
		Yeah, he's so wacky with it.
		He told me that he had like a glass of cider and he couldn't sleep for 24 days.
		Like, he's...
		He's not okay.
		He's eccentric in a heavy way.
		He's a heavy guy.
		Yeah.
		It's a burden.
		Being that guy is a burden.
		And I don't mean that in a negative or derogatory way.
		I mean, to be that smart and that- Well, don't you feel historically that they're the people who are the most sad and broken and- Because they know too much.
		There's nothing worse than knowing shit.
		The dumbest people I know are happy as a fucking clam, man.
		Simple people.
		Sure.
		And it's obviously his level of intellect is next level.
		But even being a bright guy or just being a reader or reading Kafka and Salinger or whoever and just becoming aware of certain things, you realize Certain times realizations aren't always the greatest things.
		I used to say that to kids when I was coaching them, when I was coaching martial artists.
		I would say, you're scared because you're smart.
		You see these people around you that aren't scared?
unidentified		They're stupid.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		They don't understand the possibilities.
		You're aware of the dangers and all the variables.
		You've got to put that aside and just concentrate on your technique and your task at hand.
		But the reason why you're scared is because you're smart.
		My life exists around fear.
		It's not good.
		It's not healthy.
		I'm not healthy mentally because of it.
		And I don't know how to shake that.
		But what kind of fear?
		My father died when I was 10. My mom's my best friend.
		And she's 72 now.
		So every day is worried about her.
		Yeah.
		In every way.
		It's not even driven by anything that's rational.
		It's like she's sick.
		She's the best.
		You know what I mean?
		She's 72, listens to Jay-Z and wears Jordans.
		Does she?
		Yeah.
		She's the best.
		Does she sing along?
		Of course.
		I gotta get a video of this.
		Yeah, no problem.
		But it's fear of not having her.
		Fear of the unknown.
		Really, I fear the unknown.
		I fear what if this all ends?
		My adult life has been what I do, which is music.
		Yours has been too.
		Bro, I don't know how to do anything.
		I don't know how to fix a fucking car.
		I can't even be a mechanic.
		I don't know how to...
		I literally don't know how to do anything, bro.
unidentified		But that fear is for mechanics, too, because they're like, fuck, what if there's no more cars?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What if these electric cars come along?
		I don't know how to work a computer.
		Everything's going to be computer controlled.
		I mean, people's business...
		Think about the poor bastard that opened up Blockbuster.
		He's like, we got this.
		We got it a lot.
		We got this forever.
		Right.
		He's just spending money like it's growing.
		Then one day, they're like, oh, we got this new thing.
		It's called Apple TV. People are like, fuck Apple TV. Where's that going to go?
		Michael Blockbuster is not living in a box somewhere.
		Probably.
		Yeah.
		Well, he probably sold.
		He'd be smart.
		He probably saw the writing on the wall.
		Yeah.
		But, I mean, there's a lot of things that just go away, and people find a way to make do.
		You get through.
		Whatever made you a successful rapper, you could be successful at anything.
		I don't know that I want that.
		Well, you don't have to, luckily.
		I don't want to be a successful mechanic.
unidentified		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to be either.
		I don't want...
		The fear of not...
		Being able to continue the way I continue, I know, again, from being a fan, you do what you want, essentially.
		Of course, work is work.
		And even though we love it, it's still work.
		And I think we both have people in our lives that don't get that.
		When we talk when you were in Philly, people hit you up the day of the show.
		Can you get me two passes back?
		Like, it's a fucking party.
		It's your job, man.
		It's how you, you know what I mean, put food on the table.
		And I think there's a disconnect there with people that don't live in that world.
		That they think everything we do is a party.
		Sorry, it goes back to discipline, what we were talking about earlier.
		That you gotta love it, but you also have to have the discipline to get the work done.
		Of course.
		Of course.
		But I have a problem with...
		People that don't understand that, that there is discipline involved.
		They think that there's not, that we got lucky.
		We didn't.
		Well, we did and we didn't.
		We did get lucky.
		We created our own luck, though.
		There's a little bit of that for sure.
		We're lucky we live in America.
unidentified		We're lucky we weren't born in a shack in Ethiopia.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's luck, but then there's also you have to put in the work.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you have to figure it out.
unidentified		It's a puzzle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's this open-ended puzzle.
		You make it.
		You turn it into something.
		But you did it.
		You did it.
		You started, you got your shot, and you took it and had the balls to run with that shot.
		Some people fumble the ball.
		There's a lot of fumblers out there.
		But I fumbled a bunch too.
		You just get back up and figure out why you fumbled.
		I fumbled, but I knew that I had to get back up.
		These people fumble the ball and then go into woe is me.
		Into the woe is me.
		Can't catch a break.
		The universe is out to get me.
		I can't catch a break.
		This doesn't...
		And that's all...
		I can't say all, but a lot of it is self-inflicted.
		Yeah, it is.
		Well, instead of looking at it that way, what they should look at it, okay, now I know how not to do it.
		I learned.
		Now this is going to make me better.
		You have to learn.
		You have to learn from everything that happens.
		My father would say it's not a mistake if you learn from it.
		Yeah.
		You have to be able to, look, it's adapt or die, like we're Blockbuster, right?
		So adapt or die, everything's changing with us.
		You know what I mean?
		This podcast is bigger than shows on terrestrial radio.
		If you told me that back when I was listening to Stern, I'd be like, what?
		What are you even talking about?
		What is a podcast?
		How big could that be?
		And you're bigger than radio personnel.
		Well, I thought that when I did it, too.
		When I first started doing it, I never thought it was going to be a thing.
		I thought it was just a goof.
		I was doing it for fun.
		Right.
		Like I would respond to someone on Twitter.
		Like, just fuck it.
unidentified		Just have some fun.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		But you've changed culture.
		You've shifted culture in how people communicate with this show.
		I mean, you should be very proud of that, man, if you're not already.
		I don't think about it.
unidentified		I think if you think about it, you'll trip over your own feet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't think about it.
		Someone can give me the best compliment ever and I'm like, I'm a piece of garbage.
		You're better off that way.
		Just keep pressing forward.
		Joe, we don't have a problem there.
		Well, like you were saying about your fear of it all going away, I think that fear is what makes you show up at the studio ten minutes early.
		That fear is what makes you get out that notebook and start writing.
		Yeah.
		That fear is what makes you sit alone thinking about how you're going to structure this or write your next this.
		Yeah.
		It's all important.
		People think that, like...
		Like a guy like you who's a successful rapper or a comedian that's successful that you just got no worries anymore.
		That's bullshit.
		I have more worries now than I've ever had in my life.
		I have way more worries than when I had nothing in my pocket in high school when I was rapping on street corners.
		I think about it all the time.
		And I look at the worries I had then and they're laughable.
		I crack up at the shit that used to bother me.
		You know what's interesting?
		Could you imagine going back to the first day, starting over from scratch, knowing what you know now, how much better you would be, right?
		Oh, I can't even imagine, man.
		But think of that in the future as of now.
		That's heavy.
		Yeah.
		That's heavy.
		You know, if you look back on yourself, like if you're a 60-year-old man looking back at yourself, you're like, Vinny, you had the world by the balls.
		Balls, of course.
		The problem is...
		I have a problem with living in the moment.
		I'm always thinking about the ramifications of that moment while the moment is happening.
		Yeah.
		And it's it's it's it's detrimental to my mental health to think that way.
		You know what I mean?
		I know.
		I can't.
		I see people live in the moment.
		I see people that just are able to to let things wash over them.
		And I'm envious of that because everything is overanalyzed in every way possible.
		people.
		And it eats at me, you know?
unidentified		Yeah, but I think that that's one of the reasons why your lyrics are so good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like a person has that sort of...
		The overanalyzing aspect of you is also what makes you go over all these details and find better hooks and find a better way to phrase things.
		And this is like, you can't be complacent.
unidentified		You just can't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I just wish it could just only exist in that part of my life.
		I don't think it works, man.
		Everybody that I talk to that's successful is the same way.
		They're all a mess.
		Yeah.
		What are we going to do about that, man?
		How do we fix that?
		There's nothing you can do.
		You just got to not give a fuck and keep pressing forward and know that this is just part of who you are.
		I mean, if we go back historically, everyone's a loon that was brilliant.
		Like, look at Lennon.
		You know, look at all these...
		You know what I'm saying?
		They're all crazy.
		Every comic that's ever lived has been crazy as fuck.
		I think Stanhope's one of the most brilliant minds ever.
		Bat-shit crazy, you know?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		He's a good buddy of mine.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know he is.
		You know, you look at...
		You know, whether it's Bill Hicks, whether it's Louie, whoever, you know what I mean?
		Yeah.
		I mean, Sam was the most troubled person in the world.
		Well, that's my defense of Roseanne.
		You know, all these people are coming after Roseanne.
		I'm like, you don't understand.
		She's bad shit.
		She's not just bad shit.
		She got in a car accident.
		She has severe brain damage.
		She's on all sorts of medications.
		She has multiple personality disorder.
unidentified		She's drinking.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's on Ambien.
		And she's seven years old.
		What the fuck do you want?
		Right.
		What do you want from this lady?
		You spoke that way and so did Norm.
		Norm talked about Louis and Roseanne the same way.
		You're like, yo man, she's batshit crazy, first of all.
		If you're going to her for political discourse, you might want to reevaluate your life.
		The problem's on you.
		Yeah, that's your fault.
		It's not her, it's you.
		Yeah, and that doesn't mean either one of us agree with exactly what she wrote.
		It's just how she got there.
		But that's also why she's so funny.
		You know, if you go back and watch Roseanne in the early days...
		Bro, that show was fucking hell.
		It was a great show.
		And her stand-up, even before that, was fantastic.
		I put her in the top 20 of all time stand-ups.
		She was brilliant.
		She was brilliant.
		She was also a monster, man.
		There was nobody like her before.
		She was just this brash, I don't give a fuck.
		She was like a man.
		Yeah, man.
		She'd kill like a world-class stand-up.
		Sure.
		I mean, I remember when that show came on, just seeing that house.
		I had never seen a house like that on television before.
		You know what I mean?
		Closer to what we knew than what I had ever seen.
		My house didn't look like the Cosby's.
		You know what I mean?
		Maybe Archie Bunker was a little bit closer.
		But when people are batshit crazy, And someone reacts to that with, not confusion, with contempt.
		I'm like, you understand they're batshit crazy.
		And it's part of why they got to where they're at.
		Don't act surprised now that someone said something loony.
		This many years after, you know what I mean?
		It just seems strange to me that now you're blown away.
		She's been saying batshit crazy shit for a long time.
		I think it's also part of this new culture that we have in where people just, they find a target and they attack.
		Of course.
		It's like, if you have, if there's any sort of weakness, like if you have chickens and one chicken gets sick, that's what that pecking order thing is.
		Sure.
		One chicken doesn't feel good, the other chicken just...
		They don't, like, make moral judgments on this chicken.
		They just find a target.
		There's something wrong with that chicken, so they start fucking it up.
		And it happens with dogs.
		It's an animal thing.
		It is.
		And human beings, we have to, if we're going to be real...
		If we're going to be compassionate, we're really going to be compassionate, if we're really going to try to engineer a better culture and a better community, we've got to stop doing that.
		I agree.
		We've got to just stop attacking people.
		I talked to her on the phone, just me and her.
		She did not know that lady was black.
		I believe she didn't know that.
unidentified		She goes, she looks Jewish.
unidentified		She looks like me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what she said.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I believe you.
unidentified		I believe her too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think she was just cracking a joke, fucked up on Ambien, been drinking and smoking weed all night.
		But no one cares what her intent was.
		All they care is, I got a green light.
		That's a target.
		We're going to go in.
		Well, here's my issue with the modern left.
		They talk compassion, but they pounce.
		I feel like a man with no country now.
		Me too.
		The modern left isn't something that I gravitate towards, and neither is the right.
		And when I was growing up and listening to Public Enemy, that left of...
		It changed...
		It changed and I didn't.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		And you have these people...
		I don't know where I stand anymore, man.
		Well, I think there's rational left-leaning people that are against discrimination and for welfare and for food.
		Look, I was on welfare when I was a kid.
		If people say I shouldn't be on welfare, well, what the fuck, man?
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		My parents were on welfare.
		No, I came from a poor family.
		We had food stamps, and eventually they did better and we got off of it.
unidentified		Sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But if you want to tell me that that doesn't help, that fed me.
		Absolutely.
		So how could I ever go against that when that was a part of my childhood?
		Absolutely.
		All these things that people want to associate with being left or right, I think there's just a gigantic problem with people being tribal.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what it is.
		It's tribalism at its highest degree, which since I've been alive, I haven't seen.
		Never seen it like this before.
		I think we know why, but...
		Well, it's facilitated not just by Trump, but it's also by the ability to communicate instantaneously.
		Of course.
		Without any consideration.
		You could just tweet something or make a YouTube video about something instantaneously.
		Sure.
		Roseanne's ability to tweet that...
		Yeah.
		That quickly with the phone is why...
		Sunker's show costs millions of dollars.
		Yeah, people lost their jobs.
		ABC, you know, it's like...
unidentified		Yeah, now they're going to do the Connors.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Guess what?
		That show's going to fucking sink like the Titanic.
		Of course, it's going to last...
		No Roseanne?
		Get the fuck out of here.
		Three episodes, Max.
		It's Roseanne without Roseanne.
		Right.
		Three episodes will last.
		That's like flavor-free Diet Coke.
		Tastes like water.
		Just have water, motherfucker.
unidentified		It's Diet Coke, but without the flavor.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
unidentified		Wait, what?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		It's the hypersensitivity and it's like the ability for anyone, right or wrong, to be able to say something right then.
		Right.
		Where you would have...
		You know, if you're doing Fear Factor and Rolling Stone interviews you, there's a thought process there.
		And there's editing, and you're sitting there, and you're talking with a journalist.
		All of that's gone, man.
		It's like it.
		That's what it's come down to.
		You know, all three of us have phones in our pockets.
		We can say something crazy right now if we stubbed our toe.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, it's not...
		Fuck this!
		And all of a sudden, you're done.
unidentified		You're sunk.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's good in that, because the tyranny of these gigantic organizations, like if they were tyrannical, if they did have an agenda, if they were trying to smear you, you were fucked.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You had no recourse.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And they did that to many people, I'm sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's unscrupulous journalists.
unidentified		Sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But also, journalistic integrity takes a backseat, too, because now they have to get clicks.
		Like, these people are...
		Real journalists are fighting for their lives.
		Absolutely.
		Because these publications are going under...
		Well, real journalism is almost dead.
		It's not totally dead.
		It's hurting.
		It's bad.
		It's hurting.
		It's got emphysema.
		Like the Alex Jones thing, right?
		Whether I agree with shit he says or not, corporations shut him down.
		And to me, that's scary.
		That the corporations can decide what we are able to do.
		Yeah.
		Really.
		Well, I was having a good conversation about this last night with some friends, and they were talking about whether or not things like YouTube or Twitter or Instagram should be regulated like utilities.
		Okay.
		Where anybody can use it.
		Okay.
		You know, like, you have the right to get the power.
		Like, if you have a house, you have the right to pay your money, you get your power turned on.
		It's a utility.
		Yes.
		Maybe a channel like that, whether it's YouTube or whether it's Twitter, maybe a channel should be treated like a utility.
		But then the question is, like, what is it exactly that is good enough to get you kicked off?
		Because I've seen some horrible shit that people have read or written, rather, on Twitter, and they're still on.
		I've seen shit.
		Whatever he's being—whatever, you know, is why he was brought down— I've seen people say much worse.
		The big thing was the Sandy Hook.
		And it was that the Sandy Hook thing was he said that he thought that it was fake.
		He's since disavowed that.
		But they don't care if you disavow things.
		It's like they have this thing on you now.
		You said that the kids didn't die.
		They definitely did.
		Let's get rid of you.
		But are you saying that people aren't allowed to make mistakes?
		Are you saying that people aren't allowed to evolve their thinking?
		Are you saying that people aren't allowed to say things that are wrong?
		Because a lot of people say things that are wrong.
		But is it only things that are wrong about children?
		Where's the line?
		I don't know where lines go.
		And I don't know who's the one drawing them.
		Well, it's these people that either are the CEOs or the stockholders or, you know, the CFOs, whoever it is that is in the meeting that's dictating these standards, they're deciding.
		And these are gigantic corporations that, we were just talking about this, I don't think they ever anticipated this.
		I think when they made Twitter, they thought it would be, like Jamie was saying, it was a fun way to tell your friends, you know, Vinnie Paz and Joe Rogan are going to the movies.
unidentified		Sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's what you would do.
		That's what Twitter was.
		It was just like, I'm eating pizza at the mall.
		It wasn't anything crazy.
		Right.
		And then people started using it as a platform for...
		I don't know why.
		Well, Sam Harris has been tweeting to Jack.
		He's been trying to get Jack to ban Trump.
		He's like, look, he's clearly violating your standards of practice.
		Wow, that's great.
		He's clearly doing that.
		And he's like, Jack just won't respond to him anymore.
		Wow.
unidentified		Jack's going radio silent.
unidentified		Yeah, he's like, fuck this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't need to deal with this in my life.
		I mean, you don't want to do that right now.
		Maybe when he gets impeached, then you ban him.
		Yo, if you read that guy's Twitter, the fact that he's the leader of the free world is batshit crazy.
		He calls people losers.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Leader of the free world, calls people losers.
		He's threatening nuclear war.
		I love, my favorite is very sad with the exclamation point.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All caps.
		Yes, that's my favorite thing.
		If we get through this without getting blown up, we're going to look back and laugh at the Trump days.
		They're going to be fun.
		I don't know how long we're into his presidency, but when I walk by the TV and hear someone say President Trump, I still have a little chuckle.
		You know, it might not be a hearty laugh, it might not be a belly laugh, but I still crack up.
		Well, it's been two years.
		This is how I know.
unidentified		I know by Netflix specials.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because my last Netflix special was exactly two years ago.
		And during that special, I was like, we are that close to President Trump.
		And people are laughing.
		I was laughing.
		I was like, I went to bed or whatever, knowing that there was zero chance.
		Yeah.
		You know, and I didn't think Hillary was a great candidate, but I thought a fucking, I thought a cardboard box would beat him.
		Yeah, I thought people would think of him as more of a liability than anything.
		But the thing is, these people in middle America just don't feel represented.
		They feel disrespected and not represented.
		And he figured that out and tapped into that.
		He did.
		Well, I saw Jordan Peterson say something in this interview, and it made me think, because obviously we're joking right now, and the joke about him is how dumb he is.
		And Jordan Peterson said, the reason he's in the biggest mistake Americans have made...
		Is underestimating him and thinking he's dumb.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
		He's not dumb.
		He just does dumb shit.
		Yes.
		And he's definitely an egomaniac.
		I think he has narcissistic personality disorder.
		But that doesn't mean he's stupid.
		Right.
		You know what I mean?
		But he...
		He took advantage of exactly what you said.
		There's a big portion of this country.
		You've been there.
		I've been there.
		You're an East Coast guy.
		I'm an East Coast guy.
		Now, we're both on the West Coast.
		Because of what we do, these are the worlds we know and what we're surrounded by.
		My father used to say, if you don't live near a coast, you're a retard.
		No, more than half the country hates me.
		I don't believe that, but my father said that.
		But anyway, when you go through the middle of the country on tour and you meet people, I've been like, yo, I've never met anyone like this before.
		Not in a good way or a bad way.
		You're not around them.
		I'm not around them, and they probably feel like...
		No one has ever spoken for me.
		You know what I mean?
		And even if a dimwit does, that's better than no one speaking for me.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's better than someone just calling them flyover states and disrespecting them.
		Of course.
		Of course.
		And when I was younger, I did it too.
		I talked that way.
		When tours would get booked, oh, I don't want to go there.
		It's just youth.
		It's ego of being where you're from, from the East Coast.
		Well, obviously, everyone on the East Coast is very proud of that fact.
		Everyone in the West is very proud of that fact.
		I don't know anything about Arkansas pride.
		It's just naivete.
		I just don't know anyone there, bro.
		There's no fucking Italians there.
		I don't know...
		That's what I am.
		I'm a WAP. My family's from Italy.
		It's just naivete and it's being an ignorant American.
		I spent a lot of time like that until I saw the world.
		Not the country, the world.
		And And being on different continents, it changes your thinking, man.
		You know, the thing you were talking about with diet and discipline, like, you know, these people run, walk everywhere, run everywhere, ride bikes everywhere.
		McDonald's is eaten like once a year as a crazy, you know, night out.
		Like, my son lives overseas, you know?
		He's had McDonald's like three times in his life.
		Little kids here, it's like every day, Mommy, Chicken McNuggets.
		You see cultural shifts and why there's no...
		I've talked to people over there who didn't know what autism was.
		They never heard of it.
		Legitimately, what is that?
		And I had to explain it.
		And that shit got me thinking too.
		It's like, okay, why?
		Why is that not happening there?
		Why?
		What could be the reason?
		Artism?
		Autism.
unidentified		Artism?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Autism.
		Yes.
		Autism.
		Yes.
		Oh, the disease.
		Yes.
		Yeah.
unidentified		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I thought you were saying artism.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry.
unidentified		I was like, what is that?
		I don't know what it is either.
		Shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
		You were looking at me like I... I was trying to figure out if you meant artisan, like handcrafted.
		Yes, yes, yes.
		Autism.
		Autism.
		Yeah, it's that accent, bro.
		Sorry, my friend.
		Sorry, buddy.
		No, but...
		Yeah, well, they, you know, it's more common, I think, now than ever before.
		But the question is whether it's more common because it's more diagnosed or whether it's more common because there's more incidents of it.
		There's a lot of questions as to why.
		One of the big ones is apparently older people having kids.
		People waiting and putting off the children.
		Particularly men.
		Apparently there's a big risk for older men.
		Older men a lot of times have autistic kids.
		I have more than a couple friends with autistic children.
unidentified		Me too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember when we were young?
		I think the first time I even was aware was probably the movie Rain Man.
		I'm not even being funny about it.
unidentified		No, me too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		100% first time I was aware.
		Did it exist and wasn't diagnosed?
		Well, they wrote a movie about it.
		I don't think they made it up for the movie.
		It's like the disease came along and popped up the movie.
		Right.
		But what happened?
		Is it chemical?
		Is it people that were on drugs?
		Is it things...
		Or was it just undiagnosed?
		I think there's a bunch of factors.
		I think undiagnosed is one of them.
		I think also the ability to exchange information now allows you to be aware of it much quicker.
		Because of the internet, because people text and tweet and do these things on phones, now you hear conversations about autism and all these different things that you don't hear about before.
		And then I think it's entirely possible that, well, first of all, there's definitely more people now than ever before.
unidentified		Sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So because of more people, you're going to have more incidences of all sorts of diseases, cancer, whatever it is.
		And then the question is, is it more per capita or is it more period because there's more people?
		I don't know the answer.
		Sure.
		Well, what you said about more knowledge and information being able to be shared.
		I have a dissociative disorder.
		It's called depersonalization disorder.
		What does that do?
		So basically, I'll be sitting here talking to you and I'll just...
		My mind, body, and soul will remove itself from my body.
		I feel like I'm floating down over my body.
		I'll look at my hands and they won't feel like mine.
unidentified		Do you smoke weed?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		That's the problem.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It'll trigger it.
unidentified		Will it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Right now, if we got high, you would float above yourself?
		I would fucking take that deer head and put it through my ear.
		I would lose my shit and I'm envious of how weed has helped so many people and that it can't help me.
		What does it do to you?
		I smoked when I was young.
		And what happened was something triggers DPD in people.
		It could be a traumatic event.
		It could be PTSD. You know what I'm saying?
		Gun to my head, I would say it was my father dying.
		But it didn't happen right away.
		Because he died when I was 10. And this started when I was 14. I smoked a blunt of dust.
		Yeah.
		And lost my shit.
		And for about 18 months, no lie, I thought I was in purgatory.
unidentified		Whoa!
		How old were you?
		14?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		14. I was like, I'm definitely not in hell.
		I'm definitely not in heaven, whatever those might be.
		Wow.
		Yo, man.
		And this is...
		So this is back then.
		There is no Twitter in it.
		I didn't even know what it was.
		I went to a doctor, told him what happened.
		He was like, oh, it was what you smoked.
		You know, don't do that again.
		And it never left.
		And then I get these episodes...
		I'll be in the shower on tour in the Czech Republic...
		Washing my hair, closing my eyes, and I'll open them and not know where I'm at.
		No clue where I'm at, and I'll feel like I'm floating outside of my body.
		You know when you would hear the stories of people dying in an out-of-body experience?
		That's literally my disorder.
		I had an out-of-body experience once when I took salvia.
		I was like, I was over here, like, floating above my, pulsating, floating above myself.
unidentified		No, I was tripping balls.
unidentified		Were you scared?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think it's it.
		Like, I'm doing the Fred G. Sanford, Elizabeth.
		I'm coming to see you.
unidentified		When you hear those drug stories where a guy gets fucked up for like a year, those scared the shit out of me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it happened.
		Marc Maron was telling us about that, like he did coke with Sam Kinison for like a couple of days, they didn't sleep, and he was fucked up for a year.
		For a whole year he heard voices.
		I would trade being fucked up for a year to do coke with Sam Kinison.
		No, but it was like 18 months of my life.
		Yo, how do you tell your Italian mother that?
		No, you can't.
		You gotta keep your mouth shut.
		When you come from that culture, man, like my family, like old school Italians, they don't believe in mental.
		You have to see it.
		They believe in cancer because they see it destroy your body.
		If you say, I'm bipolar, I'm depressed, you know what I'm saying?
		Like, I'm diagnosed depressed, I'm diagnosed DPD, I take medication for it.
		That still isn't enough for these people.
		It's to shake it off.
		You know what I mean?
		If my father was alive, he'd probably throw me up the flight of stairs for that.
		That's what Joey Diaz calls immigrant mentality.
		Immigrant mentality is real, and I'm gonna steal that because they want no...
		Again, if it's not tangible, they don't believe in it, man.
		If I broke my leg, that woman would do everything for me.
		If I'm in the middle of a fucking breakdown, she's like, you want gravy and meatballs?
		I'm like, ma!
		I'm losing my shit.
		I need to be hospitalized.
		Right.
		Can't process it.
		Ben, the best woman.
		I love no one in the world more than my mother.
		And no one has been more supportive of me.
		And that's rare, too, with the immigrant mentality.
		You'd think I'd get to get a job, go to college.
		Right.
		And she was like, baby, you do you.
		Like, if that's what you want...
		That's amazing.
		Do it, but you better do it.
		Right.
		Don't do it half-ass and don't bullshit.
		You know, this drinking 40s and smoking blondes rap shit looks good in the video, but you gotta work.
		Right.
		You know what I mean?
		And it's...
		The work ethic, like Joey said, the immigrant mentality, but it helps you in other places because when you have relatives that didn't have shit and they're dressed in potato sacks, you go, yo, I can't let my father down.
		He's not with us anymore, but I can't let him down because...
		I carry his name.
		I don't want to embarrass him.
		I don't want to embarrass my mother.
		I want her to be proud, you know?
		And that drives everything, man.
		I'm getting choked up talking about it because it's like...
		I do everything for her and my son.
		And when you're driven by that, it doesn't have to be your mom.
		When you're driven by something that you care about, it changes everything, man.
		We have people in our industries, in the entertainment industry, that just have this fucking sense of entitlement, man.
		It's plagued.
		I know you know comics with a fucking sense of incitement.
		When they're rude, when you go backstage, I know from how you are that you shake everyone's hand, say, how you doing?
		Thank you when they bring you something.
		Please, thank you.
		Sure.
		Yo, people don't do that, man.
unidentified		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what drives me crazy?
		When they don't do that to waiters.
		Waiters and waitresses, they don't say thank you, and they don't tip, or they don't tip well.
		Last night, the bill was...
		I gave $1.30 in the bar and I gave them $2.30.
		And the guy chased me to stop me.
		They think they made a mistake.
		He did.
		He was like, yo, yo, yo, yo, did you mean to do this?
		You took care of me all night, man.
		And I know that people are shitting on you and leaving a dollar or maybe not even that.
		And same with waitresses, man.
		No one gets shit on more than them.
		What do they get, like $2 an hour or something?
		And you know when you really appreciate them?
		When you go overseas and they don't get tips.
		Yes.
		Because those people barely pay attention to you.
		Those motherfuckers don't care.
		You'll sit in Amsterdam.
		They won't even come over to give you your soda for an hour.
		And in Italy, we were eating at some nice restaurants, and the service was terrible.
		Awful.
unidentified		Awful.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because they don't give a fuck.
unidentified		They don't give a fuck when you pay the exact same amount.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why would they?
		Why would they act any different than someone at Burger King?
		You know what the lady said to me at the restaurant?
		She goes, we don't include a tip, but if you want, you can leave one.
unidentified		That's true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I said, listen, baby, I'm going to leave you one.
		Take care of us.
		She goes, okay.
		So we had like a little American exchange there.
		Don't worry about it, baby.
		I got you.
		If you set it up, if there's a preamble, then it works.
		That's what you got to do.
		When they're sitting you down, you say, listen, I'm from America.
		We tip in America.
		Set the precedent.
		We tip.
		I tip big.
		Let's make this wonderful.
		You're setting the rogue and pressing.
		I'm taking care of you, so take care of us.
		Yeah, man.
		But it's just, you know, when a kid brings in a case of water, I'm like, hey, man, thank you.
		I've had those kids say to me, yo, I've been doing this 15 years.
		No one's ever addressed me.
		And I'm like...
		That's awful, A. And I'm sorry for that, but it's not going to be for me.
		A kid that brings the towels for the stage, hey, thank you.
		Thank you so much for having us.
		I appreciate you.
		I hope we did good.
		I hope the bar did well because my fans are degenerates.
		I hope this went well, you know?
		And I think that goes a long way, bro, in life.
		I don't want to get into a karma discussion, but I think whether it's a comic, a rapper, a metal band...
		If you treat people like shit for a long time, that gets around, bro.
		Comic promoters know each other.
		Music promoters know each other.
		They'll fucking call it.
		Yo, this guy's a fucking dickface, man.
unidentified		I get those stories.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was talking to a promoter the other day, and he was telling me about some guy who's an asshole, and was yelling at the sound guy, the sound check, and yelling at the promoter.
		Made them fly to New York for something, because...
		The sound wasn't right or he wasn't happy with something and you know they have to accommodate this guy but they're they're shaking their head and then every chance they get they're gonna tell everybody else of course and Madonna he is and I don't and if he's popular right now when he starts to wane those motherfuckers will remember that yeah now when dudes like me and you if we start to wane we'll still get love yeah because of the way we treated people and that's reciprocated like Yo, maybe he did 5,000 people last time.
		This time, you know, I'm talking 20 years down the line or something.
		And then you only do half.
		They're still going to have you because of the way you behave, the way you were raised.
		Well, it's also, you got an opportunity when you interact with people.
		Like, if you're working with someone and you guys are doing something together, you got an opportunity to just put smiles on faces.
		Yes.
		And they put smiles on other people's faces.
		Because of that, everybody's smiling.
		Then you got a nice little community.
		Trickle-down effect, man.
		Yeah, it's a nice community.
		What...
		It takes more energy to be an asshole.
		It does for me, because I can be an asshole.
		And when I am, I feel drained.
		It drains the shit out of me.
		I don't feel good about it.
		I just have a temper.
		I have a WAP temper.
		But I try to curb it.
		And I realize when...
		I treat people the way that they deserve to be treated.
		Everything changes.
		The energy in the room changes.
		They might bring you...
		I don't know if you drink or smoke before you perform.
unidentified		Both.
unidentified		Both.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So if on your rider is two bottles of Grey Goose, you might look over.
		There might be four.
		Just because you're a sweetheart, not because you asked for it.
		Right.
		It's just little shit.
		I'm not even saying it's a big deal and it's life-changing.
		There's just little shit that people will, you know, it makes their day just by us being polite instead of the guy that they had the last night that was a ball breaker and saying, the sound man, the...
		First off, you don't ever fuck with a sound man as a performer.
		That motherfucker will get you.
		That motherfucker's got a ponytail.
		He smokes weed to the Allman Brothers.
		He's been around the block.
		And people don't realize that shit.
		That motherfucker is 60. He fucking listened to the MC5. He fucking did sound for everybody you and I probably worship.
		He is not impressed.
		He's probably impressed by you.
		He's definitely not impressed by me.
		A rapper from Philly, he don't give a fuck.
		He don't want to be doing my sound.
		So the last thing I need to do is be like, yo, Schmohawk.
		Turn this up.
		There's a mentality that a lot of people adopt that when they become successful, they want to be a prick.
		They want to let everybody know.
		They want to be that guy who yells and wrecks hotel rooms.
		You know that kind of shit?
		Oh, I do.
		But I can't...
		I don't understand it.
		I understand it.
		Do you?
		It's a weakness.
		And it's just, they waited for so long to make it.
		Now they finally make it.
		They want everybody to suck their dick.
		But do you think that things like that can be controlled by upbringing?
		Yeah, they can be, but it's also...
		Alright, so I'm ready to smash something in a hotel.
		I hear my mom...
		That maid is going to have to spend all day.
		You know what I mean?
		She tells me, when I'm cranky about a show or I'm leaving for tour and there's no sleep, she says, you talk to every one of those kids, you sign every autograph, and you take every picture.
		I'm going upside your head with a wooden spoon.
		And the wooden spoon still has the crack from my head from back then.
		And it's still the one she stirs the gravy with.
		But it's still cracked.
		But she said, you are here for a reason, and these people look up to you, and these people respect you.
		And you do your best to not just continue that, but to have them think you're a better person than they already do.
		Because that's going to trickle down, and then maybe they'll treat people better.
		Yeah.
		You said it.
		All this energy travels, man.
		It does.
		You know?
		If someone was in here right now, just...
		All three of us would get miserable real quick if someone was in here bitching.
		Everyone's out to get me.
		Everyone this and that.
		It's everyone's fault, man, except theirs.
		You know that type of motherfucker?
		It's never their fault.
		Every fucking decision they made is self-inflicted, but they can't self-examine and say, maybe it's me.
		How about just give me a maybe, motherfucker?
		Some of these people I know, that's not even in their head.
	It's all of us.
	It's you.
	It's me.
	You didn't give them a break.
	You didn't let them on this show.
	Motherfucker, maybe it's you.
	Maybe your energy...
	I think it's also our responsibility to cast those people aside.
	Agreed.
	As a lesson.
	Agreed.
	And that's what tribes would do.
	But when you're talking about a lesson, I think when you're too deep into it, you're not learning.
	I think when you hit a certain age and you're still like that, I think you're done, man.
	Some people, yeah.
	I just think you're done.
	I know that's a negative way and we're talking about not being negative, but sometimes just reality is reality.
	Well, if you're being pragmatic and you want to talk about good use of your time, yeah, you're not going to fix a 45-year-old guy who complains every day.
	And that's what I'm talking about.
	A 25-year-old kid might be going through some shit.
	It could be a breakup, a loss of a parent.
	Bad pattern that they're in.
	Yeah, of course.
	Bad mental pattern.
	And you have to break patterns, and if you don't break them, you end up being that 45-year-old guy.
	I was a shitty friend to people, man.
	I've always been loved.
	And, like, in my 20s and shit, I was just selfish.
	Like, nothing crazy.
	I never did anything, like, horrible to someone.
	But just, I thought about myself first.
	And I was probably, like, not maybe the best friend of some of these people.
	And they're still in my life.
	And I had to make a conscious effort.
	To evolve.
	To evolve and break patterns, man.
	Breaking patterns is hard as fuck.
	It's hard as fuck.
	But that's part of growth, you know?
	And that's one of the reasons why it's important to be around people that are also doing the same kind of thing.
	You feed off of each other.
unidentified		Yes!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And when you're around people that are just real negative, that feeds off of it too.
		Of course.
		You want to be negative as well.
		Yeah, and you don't feel the need to break that cycle because you're around motherfuckers that are thinking like that too.
		So it becomes this pity party where it's a circle jerk of misery.
		You know what I'm saying?
		And the circle jerk of misery, it's never ending, man.
		One of the things that really expands your understanding of people and life is just being in a bunch of different places and understanding that where you grew up is just one part of the world.
		Yes.
		The world is this massive place.
		I just got back from Thailand.
		I was in Thailand this summer.
		I've never been around so many friendly people.
		Friendly, nice, smiling people.
		I think they call it the land of the smile or land of a thousand smiles or some show like that.
		That's beautiful.
		But that's what it's like.
		When you're over there, people are just so friendly.
		And I was like, wow, okay, if you grew up here, something about whatever momentum that these people have developed in their culture, their culture is like smiling and friendly to each other.
		Yes.
		This is just the vibe, the way they do it.
		But if you were around some real aggro, super shitty, insulting, aggressive culture, then that would be what you had to adapt to.
		Bro, Philly was voted the most hostile city in America by Time Magazine.
		Oh, it's up there.
		Philly loves you though.
		Recently, when I said, this is how I describe Philly, I said, they're very smart people who will punch you.
		Yeah.
		That's a good description of me.
		Yeah.
		Not the very smart.
		Not the very smart.
		Of average intelligence that will punch you.
		But Philly's a sophisticated city.
		It's a real city, but they're hard people.
		Goons, man.
		Yeah, they're hard people there.
		Look, man, we threw snowballs at Santa Claus.
		Michael Irvin broke his leg and we cheered.
		Well, the famous Bill Burr rant when they booed Dom Herrera and then Bill Burr went on and tortured Philly for ten minutes.
		Yes.
		And I love Dom.
		I love Dom.
		Me and Dom eat at the same restaurant.
		I'm working with Dom tonight.
		Are you?
unidentified		At the Ice House.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Big Petey?
		Little Petey?
		Yeah.
		Dom's great, man.
unidentified		He's the best.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We eat at a place called Poppy's in South Philly, and I see him all the time.
		He's a sweetheart.
		He's a great guy.
		Great guy, man.
		Legend.
		Yeah.
		I just saw him on the Bruce Willis roast, and he murdered on that.
		He murdered.
		But he's...
		Great guy.
		I've been friends with Dom for like 25 years.
		Have you?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know he's a Philly guy, right?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		But yeah, there's also a level of guilt, though, in cutting some of these people off that you were talking about.
		That's kind of hard for me.
		Yeah, because like loyalty is a big thing too when you're talking about all these you gotta tell them these pot they don't listen and then you gotta tell them again Then they don't listen then you got to cut them off and you go look I told you that's what's happening now, but I still it's it eats at me I feel bad like I should be like It's a savior complex.
		Mmm.
		You know what I'm saying?
		I know that I I don't want anyone to be fucked up man And I have a hard time Being like, yo, this person is detrimental and they...
		My energy is fucked up with them being in my life.
		But when it's time to cut them off, I still feel like, am I being a shitty person by doing that?
		Yeah, well that's what they want you to think.
		Because they don't take care of themselves.
		You gotta take care of yourself before I take care of you.
		I mean, you gotta at least want to.
		I'll help you if you want to.
		But if you're not taking care of yourself and you want me to do it for you, hey, hey, you gotta get your own shit together first.
		At least make an attempt.
		You can't just ask everybody to carry your bags.
		They want you to carry their emotional bags all the time.
		And again, like I said, there's no introspection.
		There's no, well, maybe this many years and all of this shit happened to me.
		me, maybe it's me and I'm a dickhead.
		When you can't see that, I feel like, I don't know, man.
		Calling people lost causes seems very dark and grim, but I think they exist.
		Well, I think you probably have this attitude because your dad died when you were young and you were left alone.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I have a lot of that because my father and my mother split up when I was real young and I haven't seen my dad since I was seven.
		So it's the same sort of thing.
		Be feel abandoned and so you don't want to leave anybody behind so I always rescued stray dogs and feral cats and took in crazy friends and this my whole life has been like that and you've taken in the misfits and your father made that Decision and that weighs on you and my father made the decision to die.
		He had three he had bypass surgeries.
		They told him stop smoking Stop doing this stop doing that He had my older brother Bring cigarettes to the hospital.
		He drug the IV down to the bathroom and was smoking out of the window.
		He had a young son and made a choice not to live for him.
		My other brothers are 11 and 12 years older.
		So they got him for, they were 21 and 22. You know what I mean?
		Like, bro, I can't remember his voice.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
		And that shit weighs heavy because it's like, did he not love me enough to live for me?
		And those things manifest themselves in different ways as you get older that you don't even know.
		You know what's crazy?
		It's a gift in some ways.
		It's the gift and the curse.
		Yeah, the gift is that you have this energy that comes from this lack, this lack of something in your life when you're young.
		You know, I mean, this is something I struggle with with my kids because I try to give my kids everything.
		Always give them love, always give around them, love them.
		Yeah, hug, kiss all the time, make sure they know.
		We were talking about this yesterday.
		All my friends that are interesting came from fucked up childhoods.
		All my favorite friends.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All my favorite friends, their life was chaos when they were growing up and they became these really interesting people.
		I hate that that's what created us.
		But, I mean, you couldn't be more right.
		I mean, you're talking about your favorite friends.
		I mean, my favorite, everything.
unidentified		Everything.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Artists.
		Painters, musicians, rock bands, punk, metal.
		All of them were fucked in there.
		I don't know any well-balanced people that I feel are like, oh, that guy's a brilliant mind.
		He came from a two-parent home in the suburbs of Connecticut.
		I don't know anyone like that.
		Pressure creates diamonds.
		Yeah, man.
		It busts pipes, too.
		It does bust pipes.
		Yeah, but I wonder how much of that stuff haunts me.
		You know, your parents splitting and being seven.
		Like, how many of the fucked up things that go on in your head now relate back to that?
		And you're not even aware.
		Because the mind is so complicated.
		Oh, yeah.
		There's a lot of it.
		You know when I started realizing it when I was smoking weed?
		I didn't really start smoking weed seriously until I was 30. Okay.
		And then when I started doing it, then I started thinking about all sorts of different patterns of my behavior and why I was angry all the time.
		Right.
		And I think a lot of it came from this resentment of being abandoned when I was young.
		Well, some of your early stuff was fucking super dark.
		I mean, I think you're a brilliant comic, so I love all your stuff.
unidentified		Thank you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But some of that earlier stuff, man.
		Yeah, well, young and angry.
		Dark places.
		It was also, that was also just a few years after I was done fighting.
		I was a different person.
		I just had a different mindset.
		Sure.
		And that's a very strange transition between competition and then stand-up comedy.
		Of course.
		It's just a very different kind of mindset.
		Of course.
		And I carried a little bit too much combat with me in my early days.
		Yeah, well, you were still fighting.
		You were still fighting.
		And sometimes when you don't know what you're fighting...
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's worse.
		It's worse.
		Because you start internalizing it, and you don't know what the...
		It's war with self.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And the war with self, because you don't...
		This energy needs to be channeled.
		And how can it be?
		And you went batshit on the mic.
		And went really dark with it.
		And I've done that too.
		But for us to be healthy...
		Here's the other question, though.
		If we were to get healthy, would we just suck?
		Yeah, well, I used to worry about that when I was young.
		I used to worry about being...
		My idea was that if I became somehow, you know, air quote, enlightened, that I wouldn't be funny anymore.
		Right.
		Because all the funny people I knew were fucked up.
		Of course.
		I thought that I needed to be a drug addict.
		I'm like, damn, Kinison was a drug addict.
		Pryor was a drug addict.
		Maybe I needed to be a drug addict.
		Look at these people.
		I mean, historically, look at Hendrix.
		You know what I mean?
		Look at Bukowski.
unidentified		Morrison.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Janis Joplin.
		Yes, Bukowski.
		Bukowski's a fucking...
unidentified		Mess.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The town drunk.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And one of the best.
		I thought and think the same way.
		I'm like, I might need to pick up a habit.
		Yeah.
		Do you drink?
		Yeah.
unidentified		Just a little bit or a lot?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I shouldn't.
		I drank a lot and had an epiphany.
		I woke up one day and cold turkeyed it.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I drank a lot for a lot of years.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And now you don't drink at all or just a little?
unidentified		No, no.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just like casual.
		A little bit.
		You know, a little bit.
		A little bit.
		A little bit.
		But it's more like when I perform.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
unidentified		Just loosen up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I was drinking two bottles of Grey Goose alone every night.
		Oh.
		Yeah, alone.
		Dolo.
		Every night.
		Seven days a week.
unidentified		That's a lot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Two bottles to the head.
		That's Burt Kreischer.
		Love Burt.
		Love the Burt.
		I know the bird.
		He's got a bottle in his head.
unidentified		What?
		When he's listening to this.
		What?
		Ooh.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Love the bird.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You guys are close, yeah?
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		We're doing Sober October.
		We're trying to figure out the bet.
		Well, who cracks first?
		Yeah, well, we're trying to figure out what to do.
		Tom Segura's got some great idea.
		Instead of yoga classes, there's some application that you...
unidentified		Let me find out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Are you in on this bet?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I want money on this.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Crash is going to crack.
		You're not going to be able to do the pot?
		No, I took the last Sober October off.
		The whole month?
		Yeah, I took the whole month off.
		No pot?
		No, no pot.
unidentified		You don't believe me?
unidentified		How dare you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow, listen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're looking at me.
unidentified		I am.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I am looking at you crazy.
		Let me find the order here.
		Joseph, I don't believe that.
		You were sneaking the pot.
unidentified		No, I wasn't.
unidentified		What does he say in Family Guy?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ari didn't believe it either.
		Ari wanted to get me tested.
		We went to a yoga class.
		If I put money, I'm getting blood work.
unidentified		Ari's like, we're going to go to CVS. We're going to take a drug test.
		He said he's still going to do mushrooms when he's camping or some shit.
		Oh, that's okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's all right.
		I'll let that slide.
		So this is what the fuck this thing is.
		It's some sort of a heart rate application.
		What is it called?
		MyZone.
		You wear this thing around your chest, and it registers on an app, and it gives you points for the amount of work you do.
		And Tom suggested that we try to achieve some ridiculous amount of points for the month.
		So it's like 40,000 points or some shit.
unidentified		This is it?
unidentified		You got it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I forget what the number that Tom said, but we're gonna have to agree on this number.
		And what it would basically mean is you gotta work out almost an hour and a half every single fucking day of the month.
		No off days.
		No off days.
		Well, you're in good shape.
		You can do that.
		Yeah, I'll be alright.
		I'll figure out different shit to do.
		So I'll run hills, I'll kick box, I'll do a little jujitsu, I'll do a bike.
		If I get in on it, you guys can bet on how long before I die.
		Well, you work out, right?
		I know you do a little boxing.
		Well, here's the thing.
		I did and was in good shape as a kid.
		Then when I got rap money, I did the dumb thing and turned into a fat pig.
		So the past maybe years, a couple years, maybe 18 months, I'm back boxing again.
		So you're just regular, hitting the bag, skipping rope.
		Hitting the bag, cardio, skipping rope.
		I know you're a giant boxing fan.
		Yeah, like obsessive.
		Yeah, me too.
		Yeah, I know you are.
		I know you are.
		Yeah, I liked your post on Canelo Alvarez and Triple G, too, that casual boxing fans are the worst.
		I mean, it's really like child molesters, and then they're the worst, like pedophiles are the worst, and then casual boxing fans.
		Yeah, it's the same with MMA fans.
		Oh, I'm sure.
		Well, those kids hate me.
		They just yell at me.
		When I post something about boxing, watch MMA, faggot!
		I'm like, Jesus, man!
		Yo, man!
		You know, it's a little aggro towards me.
		Yeah, how come you could be a soccer fan, but you can't be a boxing fan?
		I don't know, man.
		How come you could be a basketball fan, but you can't be a boxing fan?
		I don't know.
		The hostility is there, man.
		Well, it's a stupid...
		There's a conflict between MMA and boxing.
		I think it's stupid.
		It's a deal to a lot of people, you know what I mean?
		It's so stupid because so many MMA fighters have learned from boxers.
		Absolutely.
		You know Mack Danzig?
unidentified		Sure, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Mack's a friend of mine and he's a huge boxing fan and would train a wild card.
		He's one of the rare, Mack Danzig was one of the rare vegans that competed successfully for a long period of time in MMA. One of the rare ones.
		But he's a smart guy.
		Very bright guy.
		Yeah, really watched his diet correctly and made sure he got the proper foods and fatty acids and all the different things.
		Yeah, I couldn't do it.
		Yeah, well, I mean, for him, in his mind, it was an ethical choice.
		I know there's a lot of other ones that are vegetarians that do really well, like Jake Shields.
		He's a vegetarian, but he eats eggs and milk and cheese and things along those lines.
		But you hunt your own stuff.
		Yeah.
		Do you enjoy that?
		I do, yeah.
		But how do you learn that process of what you do after the animal?
		Yeah, I got lucky that I learned from people that know what they're doing.
		Steve Rinella, who's a good friend of mine, took me for the first time on a television show.
		So the first time I ever hunted was on TV, which is kind of nerve-wracking.
		You don't want to fuck up and wound an animal on television.
		But...
		What it is to me, it's like, I saw so many PETA videos.
		I saw so many of those factory farming videos.
		Yeah, me too.
		I don't want to be a part of this.
		Me too.
		So I was either going to be a vegetarian, which I tried to be when I was fighting.
		I was trying to stay at a lower weight class, and I was a vegetarian for a while, and I felt like shit.
		And I probably was doing it wrong, if you're ready to scream at your keyboard right now.
		Oh, no, that's what they're doing right now.
		Vegan plant power, plant-based power.
		Yeah, you're going to get bombarded.
		But when I started eating meat again, I went up a weight class, and I became much better.
		My body just reacts better with meat.
		Me too.
		Yeah, me too.
		I tried it too, you know what I mean?
		I just found that, you know...
		Making smart decisions.
		Forget vegan, vegetarian, or meat diet.
		Just making smart decisions.
		Dietary decisions.
		You know what I mean?
		It was all the difference in the world for me.
		And as someone who works out as much as you do, you feel better.
		You just do.
		It's not a lie.
		No one's lying to you about it.
		You just feel better when you work out.
		Well, the thing about the fighters and people that are in competition, though, it's like there's more at stake because it's not just about feeling better.
		It's like you have an obligation to your brain, to your body, and to your future to perform at your best.
		And your life.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because that's not a game, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't play MMA. You don't play boxing.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		It's true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can die.
		People have.
		If you're cutting weight the wrong way, you know what I mean?
		Because there's tons of wrong ways to do shit.
		We know diuretics, all of that.
		You come in malnourished and someone hits like a fucking mule, man.
		That's no joke.
		It's no joke.
		I mean, if anybody thinks you play boxing, watch Canelo Alvarez versus...
		Watch any real vicious knockout where someone's getting their head bounced off the canvas.
		He took James Kirkland's soul out of his body.
		How about Amir Khan?
		We cracked Amir Khan with that right hand.
		Boom!
		I mean, we go back to the 80s and Julian Jackson would just separate people from their...
		Dude.
		Julian Jackson was a murderous puncher.
		He's the hardest puncher I ever saw in my life.
		Here's Amir Khan right here and Canelo Alvarez.
		The right hand.
		See, this is...
		Oh, good Lord.
		Beautiful.
		That was one of those fights where...
		He short-circuited right there.
		He doesn't know where he's at.
		That's not a game right there.
		No.
		You're not playing that.
		Canelo's so much bigger than him, too.
unidentified		Just so much bigger.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, he made 154, but he's a middleweight, and Amir Khan is a blown-up welter.
		Yeah.
		But he just separated his soul from his body right there.
		Yeah, just fucking hammer time.
		That was one of the interesting things, and you put this on your Instagram about the first Triple G fight.
		He landed then on Triple G, and Triple G shook it off and kept walking towards him.
		Yeah.
		And you could see it in his eyes like, oh my goodness.
		Caught him clean.
		I mean, you're a fighter, man.
		You hit someone with your best shit, and they don't budge.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Ooh!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, especially if you're used to taking people out.
		That's what I mean.
		And everything shifts.
		Well, that's where a guy like Paulie Malignaggi has a slight advantage.
		He very rarely knocks anybody out.
		So he's used to hitting people and keeping going.
		Yes, yes.
		He had bad hands.
		He had bad hands.
		So he had to change his style, you know, to box and just poke the jab over and over and over.
		Throw a right hand every now and then to keep him honest with bad hands.
		But the beautiful thing that Canelo did, he just...
		Pawed with a jab, just to draw him down, and it came over the top with the right hand.
		But yeah, beautiful stuff, man.
		Yeah, that fight, I watched it again after Teddy Atlas and I had a podcast.
		I watched a Triple G-Canelo fight again.
		Did you score it?
		Nope.
		No, I didn't, because my kids were running around, screaming at me.
		So the eye test, what does your eye test say?
unidentified		Fucking close fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Fucking close fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think Triple G came on real strong towards the end of the fight.
		Second half, yeah.
		Makes you want a 15-round fight is what it makes.
		Yes, it does.
		Yes, it does.
		But again, them motherfuckers were struggling.
		Yeah.
		You know, with those 15 rounds.
		Like the Dooku Kim stuff with Ray.
		I think a lot of that shit was because of the 15 rounds.
		You know what I mean?
		Also because of weight cutting back then.
		Of course.
		No IVs.
		And same-day weigh-ins.
		Yeah, same day Wayne.
unidentified		Which is fucking dangerous.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, real dangerous.
		Yes, but 15 rounds, I mean, it's funny we watch fighters in any professional fight in combat sports.
		You see them gassing in like the second.
		You know, Larry Holmes had tits and was going, big tits, and he was going 15 easy.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy, you know?
		It's just the human body is...
		It's also understanding how to manage your energy, too, right?
		Of course, of course, of course.
		I mean, when you come out in the first couple and you're just letting shots fly and then you're gas in the middle, that's not a shock.
		Yeah, yeah.
		It can work, but when it doesn't work, you're fucked.
		Exactly.
		When you ice them in the second, you look like you had a brilliant game plan.
		When you're gassed in the seventh, people are questioning your ability, your ring IQ, your corner.
		It's a risk.
unidentified		It is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a heavy risk to throw all your artillery at someone in the first round.
		Absolutely.
		Yeah.
		It's just such a fascinating sport.
		I love all combat sports, but one of the things about boxing is it's a combat sport that has just the longest, richest history.
		When you go back and you can watch...
		I mean, when Teddy was here, we were watching Max Schmeling versus Joe Louis' second fight.
		You can go back and watch some of Sugar Ray Robinson's greatest fights.
		Yeah, Henry Armstrong.
		Yeah.
		Oh, man.
		I mean, you get to see the rich history of boxing.
		And you look at Jack Johnson fighting with those, you know, black and white films and Jack Dempsey.
		Yeah, Gene Tunney.
		Yeah, man.
		It's crazy.
		It's beautiful that we have to see it.
unidentified		All the guys in the audience with hats on?
unidentified		Who was that about?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, man.
		Like the olden days, dudes all wore hats.
		All wore hats.
		Like pork pies.
		Yeah, strange.
		Well, very strange.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's a history to boxing that no other sport could really come close to.
		Agreed.
		Yeah.
		Now, I always have been a giant fan of boxing.
		Before MMA came around, I mean, that was really all you had to watch.
		You could watch, like, a little bit of kickboxing on television, rarely, but it was always bad.
		Well, the other thing was those guys were superstars.
		The heavyweight champ of the world when we were younger was, like, you know, if we walked out on the street right now and asked someone who the heavyweight champ is, I'm guessing...
		No one knows.
		No one knows.
		Some of them might say Mike Tyson.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, for the longest time, the crazy thing was it was a white guy.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And no one knew.
		Like, everybody when we were kids wanted a white heavyweight champion.
		That's why they pumped, you know, Jerry Cooney so hard, you know what I mean?
		Like, Tommy Morrison.
unidentified		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They wanted it so bad, you know what I mean?
		I know.
		But, like, those guys, like, you know, Sugar Ray Leonard was a hero.
		He was on a McDonald's commercial.
		It's like, those days are gone, though, you know?
		It's become a niche.
		Yeah.
		It's now a niche sport again, you know what I mean?
		Why do you think that is?
		I don't know.
		I honestly don't know.
		Is it because people got tired of corruption?
		I've talked to Teddy at fights, not at length like you did, but when I go to fights and he's calling them, I always pay my respect.
		But I'm not sure how or why or when it shifted, that shift from the 80s to early 90s and then that's it.
		Was it Mike going to jail?
		I don't know.
		Was it...
		You know, De La Hoy was huge, but I don't know.
		I don't know why...
		These dudes were like, you know, Ali was the most well-known...
		He's still the most well-known athlete ever, maybe, right?
		Probably.
unidentified		Close to it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't know who else would beat him.
		Jordan, by name, you know what I mean?
		What was really interesting was when Larry Holmes was a champ, nobody gave a shit.
unidentified		Because he had to fill the void of Muhammad Ali.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he was between Ali and Tyson.
		And Tyson, yeah.
		You know, the two dudes who...
		He basically transcended.
		Meanwhile, the Ali that beat the fuck out of Jerry Cooney, I would have loved to see him against Tyson.
		Me too.
		That's a different, I mean, not Ali, excuse me, Larry Holmes.
		Yeah.
		The Larry Holmes that beat the fuck out of Jerry Cooney.
		Because he came out of retirement for that payday against Mike.
		And he was fat, and he looked out of shape, and he still looked good in the second round up until he got cracked.
		When he was dancing.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A prime Larry gives Mike problems all day.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A prime Larry was a beast.
		He was a special fighter.
		He had a tremendous jab.
		The best heavyweight jab I ever saw.
		The Ali that fought Larry Holmes was an old, broken down Ali.
		They shouldn't have ever let that fight take place.
		A shell of himself.
		It was horrible to watch.
		But that Larry Holmes would have given Mike Tyson fits.
		Absolutely.
		It was a different Larry Holmes.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was a monster when he was young.
		Absolutely.
		Strong, snap and jab.
		Criminally underrated in history.
		Eddie Futch trained.
		Yes!
		I mean, you know, Eddie Futch may be the best trainer of all time.
		One of them, for sure.
		But again, like you said, things are time and place, man.
		Everything.
		Music, too.
		Comedy.
		Some brilliant comedian slipped through the cracks due to what was happening at that time in comedy.
		And with Larry, it's like, yo, you came after the most popular fighter of all time.
		Ever.
		And before Mike, who, you know, again, two dudes who transcended the sport.
		And he beat up the most popular fighter of all time when everybody knew it was long over.
		Long over.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, so he can't...
		People aren't happy about that.
		And then he talked shit about Marciano, which didn't endear him to people.
unidentified		That was a mistake.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he said Marciano couldn't carry his jockstrap.
		Yeah, that's my son's name.
		My son's name, Marciano, so that...
		Yeah, that's a hurt one.
		Yeah, a little bit.
		Yeah, it's, you know, Larry just had poor timing, unfortunately for him.
		Yeah.
		He was very smart with his money, though, because I still see him at the fights, and he's paid.
unidentified		That's good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's good to hear, because you know as well as I do what happens to some fighters.
		Well, didn't he own, like, a shitload of things in Easton, Pennsylvania?
		Yes, yes.
		Just took over Easton.
		He did.
		Bought, like, car dealerships and all kinds of shit.
		Car washes and shit like that.
		Yeah, Larry was smart, man.
		And he still talks shit, too.
unidentified		Does he?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, remember when he came back and he boxed the face off of Ray Mercer?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		He was old.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was old as shit when he went before Butterbean and boxed it off.
		Yes, yes.
		He still had it.
		And when Mike Tyson went to jail, he's like, as long as Mike Tyson's in jail.
		Yeah.
		That was great.
unidentified		I'll keep fighting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		That was hilarious.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Larry Holmes was something special.
		He was.
		For a lot of people, he slipped through the cracks.
		People in the know know, though.
		And that's what's most important at the end of the day, you know?
		Yeah, that's true.
		Yeah, that's true.
		I mean, and then Trevor Burbick fought Ali too, right?
		Yes.
		That was like, was that the last fight?
		Yeah, or second to last.
		But he was, the Parkinson's was already starting, man.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, because you think of him a couple years later at Tyson, when Tyson beat Burbick, and he was trembling then.
		You know what I mean?
		Like, wow.
		Yeah.
		We talk about it.
		You don't play boxing, man.
		You don't play MMA. It's your life.
		It's interesting, too, that Ali...
		I always like to watch that fight with Jerry Quarry because it was after three years off.
		Yeah, man.
		And you see his body looks different.
		It just looks softer.
		If you see Ali versus Cleveland Williams, and then you see Ali three years later, after all that time off, he just doesn't look the same.
		He was never really the same again.
		He wasn't.
		But you think about why he did it.
		Imagine having the Constitution to give away the prime of your fighting career to not do that.
		It's very special.
		Because they wanted him to fight in the Vietnam War.
		He's like, this is a bullshit war.
		This is bullshit.
		He said none of them ever called me the damn word.
		You know what I mean?
		I'm not going over there to do that.
		It's prime.
		You know you got that window as a fighter, man.
		It's like four to six years.
		And half of it...
		It's kind of amazing, too, that they did that, and then they gave it back to him.
		They let him fight again.
		I don't know what was the circumstances.
		How did they reinstate his boxing license?
		I actually don't remember.
		I don't know either.
		But I remember when he fought Frazier, I was like, man, I would have loved to see this fight three years ago.
		Yeah, man.
		Because he just was a different guy by then.
		He was way too flat-footed.
		It just was a different guy.
		Yeah.
		Well, Joe and Ali hated each other for real.
unidentified		For real.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because Ali was saying horrible shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Horrible shit.
unidentified		Horrible shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's trying to fuck with his head, and that's how you do it.
unidentified		It worked, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was the original shit-talker, man.
		When you think about it, it's like you see Conor, and you're like, that's Ali.
		Oh, yeah.
		You know what I mean?
		For sure.
		There's a lot of it.
		And like Ric Flair.
		It's like Ali and Ric Flair.
		Yeah, there's a little bit of both of them there, too.
		Well, you remember when Henry Cooper knocked down Ali?
		That was like the biggest thing in the UK ever.
		Heard him bad.
		And then Angelo Dundee cut the gloves.
		Yep.
		I mean, if it wasn't for that move, Ali could have lost by stoppage in that fight.
		Very easily.
unidentified		He got fucking cracked in that fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right on the fucking button.
		And sat down.
		He was on Queer Street.
unidentified		Oh, 100%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		He had a house on Queer Street.
		He was picking up the mail.
unidentified		Here it is, right here.
unidentified		Boom!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Let's watch that again.
unidentified		Watch that again.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that is a fucking picture-perfect left hand.
		I mean, look at him.
		Right on the button.
		He is staggering back to his corner.
		And it happened, luckily for him, at the very end of the round.
		He wasn't even Muhammad Ali back then, right?
		This was Cassius Clay.
		Correct.
		So this is before he fought.
		Was it before he fought Sonny Liston?
		I want to say it was.
		It was.
		Yeah.
		Ooh, man.
unidentified		Who knows?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They cheated him, though.
		Yeah, they did.
		They cheated him.
		It's a different world.
unidentified		Oh, we gotta change gloves.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They gave him a long-ass time.
		Oh, we gotta undo these laces.
		Cut this tape.
		Brilliant, though.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow, hey, Angelo Dundee.
		He wasn't a newcomer.
		No, he was not.
		He knew what the fuck he was doing.
		He was great, man.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		My favorite stoppage of all Ali's fights is Cleveland Big Cat Williams because he hit him with these just welterweight combinations.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, his hand?
unidentified		Bing, bing, bing, bing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He did it.
unidentified		Bop, bop, bop, bop.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he was throwing...
		Really, I never saw...
		Anyone throw combinations, a heavyweight like that before.
		He threw combinations like Ray Robinson.
		And the fluidity of them, too.
		Pull that fight up.
		This was one of my all-time favorites, because Williams was a scary fucking dude, too.
		He was a big puncher, and Ali was just light on his feet, dancing in front of him.
		No one does that anymore.
		Yeah, and Williams just kept pressing forward, pressing forward.
unidentified		Williams was a big puncher, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he could crack.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He just couldn't find Ali, and Ali was so loose in front of him.
unidentified		I mean, look at that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jab to the body, go to the head.
		Beautiful.
		He's dancing on them.
		Boom!
		Check left hook, move around, and then once he started tuning them up...
		The jab to the body and then back up top is beautiful, man.
unidentified		Beautiful.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh man, yeah.
		This is art.
		This is art right here.
		It's art because there was never a heavyweight that moved like this.
		People have to realize this just didn't exist, man.
		And rarely does exist.
		The only guy who moves even remotely like this today is Tyson Fury.
		Tyson Fury can move.
		And he's huge.
		That big motherfucker can dance.
		Yeah, he can.
		He dances, and he's six foot, what, nine or eight or some shit?
		Six-eight, I think.
unidentified		He's huge.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He gets clipped a little too much for me.
unidentified		He definitely gets tagged.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He got tagged by Steve Cunningham from Philly and dropped.
unidentified		That's the cruiserweight, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, which was even greater.
		I'm like, yo, his chin might not be all there.
		Well, you know what?
		Cunningham's a shorter guy, and sometimes for those really tall fighters, it's very difficult to punch down.
		That's how Mike was getting over, because he was in the chest.
		And he was real low.
		Yeah, I mean, that head movement and the peekaboo that, you know, that Customato developed.
		Put the end of that fight up so I could see the combinations that led to the stoppage.
		See, once he had Williams in trouble, go big screen.
		I mean, even there, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.
		Yeah.
		Like, once Williams' face had been jabbed off...
		And Joe, the craziest thing...
		Beautiful.
		The craziest thing about him is everyone historically has to sit down on their punches to get leverage on him, and he didn't.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's dancing and...
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.
		Well, he wasn't trying to knock you out with every punch.
		He was just cracking you.
		And when you're getting peppered, that's fucking rough to deal with.
		It's frustrating.
		In your head, you're like, if I touch this motherfucker, I'm going to hurt him, but you can't touch him.
		And you just keep getting peppered, and eventually your legs start wobbling a little bit.
		It's like trying to fight Willie Pep.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, he had the footwork of Willie Pepp in a heavyweight.
		I'm fucking heard of, man.
		That's another guy that people forgot about.
		Willie Pepp was one of the rare guys that won a round without ever throwing a punch.
		Yes, yes.
		Like, what the fuck, man?
		Unbelievable.
		And a dago.
		Yes.
		Yes.
		Indeed.
		We had a lot of good ones back in the day.
		Maybe not so much now, Joseph.
		We had a run.
		We had LaMotta.
		We had Graziano.
		Well, the community got established.
		That's the problem.
		People started doing well.
		Exactly.
unidentified		And then they get soft.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		The last guy we had was Arturo Gatti.
		To really rap.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		To really rap.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, that's how it goes though, right?
		The early immigrants are the ones who get shit on.
		They're the ones who come up strong.
		They're tough fighters.
		And then, you know, now it's Cubans and Russians.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because you come from that Russian amateur program, man.
		Like, there's no fucking joke.
		Right.
		That's one of the reasons why I love Lomachenko.
unidentified		That guy's an artist.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You talk about art, man?
		Yeah.
		I haven't seen anything...
		Maybe 30 years I haven't seen anything like him.
		I know.
		The footwork.
		It's ridiculous.
		I've never seen someone...
		He's in a position to not throw a punch and throws a beautiful three-punch combination.
		I don't even know.
		I mean, you know, they call him The Matrix or High Tech.
		Two perfect names.
		But, I mean, I've never seen anything like him.
		Maybe...
		Maybe a prime Roy.
		Roy was different too.
		Roy was technically awful.
		He just had such reflexes.
		When they went, that's when he got melted.
		Because he never...
		He didn't jab.
		No, he didn't do anything right, bro.
		A lead left hook.
		A lead left hook, rights from weird angles.
		And it worked because his reflexes were superhuman.
		He was Superman.
		And then as soon as they deteriorated a little bit, and in fighting, you can deteriorate a little bit in baseball.
		You can deteriorate.
		I think what got Roy, what really got Roy, in my opinion, I'm a giant Roy Jones Jr. fan.
		He's maybe one of my all-time favorite fighters.
		What really got Roy is when we went up to fight John Ruiz.
		Yeah.
		And then he went back down to fight Tarver.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was depleted.
		Depleted.
		And I think when he went up to fight Ruiz, he might have had some Mexican supplements in his system.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Yeah.
		I mean, he was like 200 plus pounds.
		208 or something.
unidentified		Jacked.
unidentified		Looked good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think he should have retired after that win.
		Well, he definitely should have consulted with an endocrinologist to try to figure out how his system was.
		And then the weight cut down to 175 must have been brutal because he was smooth.
		He looked like shit.
		He lost all his muscle tone.
		He looked like a guy.
		And he was shredded in the 90s.
		Exactly.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He looked like a guy whose system had been shut down.
		The thing that these guys maybe don't recognize, if they take some shit, or even if you just cut too much weight, your body stops producing hormones.
		Sure.
		Your body's all fucked up.
		You're on your way to dying.
		Your body's telling you what the fuck are you doing to me.
		So if he was 200 plus pounds when he fought Ruiz, then he has to cut down to 175. Yeah, 30 pounds.
		Yeah, and who knows how sophisticated his methods were?
		I mean, some fighters today are amazing at doing that.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they know how to do it correctly.
		They know how to rehydrate correctly.
		Yeah.
		And boxing at least has the benefit of not having USADA in place like the UFC does.
		The UFC has a real problem with a lack of IVs and these guys can't rehydrate correctly or the way that they want to.
		It's dangerous.
		It is dangerous, but in their defense, it's also a way that they can detect whether or not someone's cheating.
		Because when they're using IVs, you can mask a lot of shit.
		Right.
		Yeah, I didn't think about that.
		Yeah, that's why they do it.
		Yeah, they just won't let you do it.
		So, I don't know what happened with Roy when he did it, but you can't take anything away from Tarver either, because Tarver almost beat Roy the first time they fought.
		The first time, yeah.
		But then fucked him up the second fight.
		Oh, he fucking flew his head.
		Yeah.
		And the famous words, any excuses tonight, Roy?
		Yeah, right before they fight, he said that to me.
		I never saw anything like that.
		He was so confident.
		Yeah.
		I don't think he gets his due either.
		No, he doesn't.
		He doesn't.
		He had some great wins.
		Yeah.
		He had some great wins.
		He's still at it too, right?
		Yeah, at heavyweight.
		Isn't he like 45 or something like that?
		46, 47. But he got popped.
		For steroids.
		Yeah.
		Well, duh.
		If you're 45 and you're still looking good, there's something going on.
		The only person I truly believe, and I realize you'll think I'm biased because of where I'm from, but I don't think Bernard ever did anything.
unidentified		I don't think he did anything either.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bernard just lives clean.
		I've seen him order grilled chicken and get chicken that was fried by accident and peel the fry off of it rather than just go, oh, just this once I'll do it.
		Watched him take it off.
		You know what I mean?
		To not eat...
		Just insane dietary in the gym.
		I agree.
		But the Joe Smith fight was sad to watch.
		Of course.
		The Kovalev fight was sad to watch.
		I was there, man.
		I was ringside, and I love Kovalev.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But...
		That's a Philly legend.
		Like, ah, man, this is rough.
		Well, it's crazy to see how deep into his career he was still successful.
		Like, I wrote a blog article about the Kelly Pavlik fight.
		Because I'm like, I don't remember how old he was at the time, but everybody had already written him off.
		Oh, my brother and I were there like, Pavlik's gonna beat the dog shit out of Bernard.
		And he gave him a fucking lesson.
unidentified		Boxing lesson.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He put on a clinic.
		Well, people have to realize he was technically past his prime when he fucked up Tito Trent.
		He was 36. It was 36 in 2001. That was two weeks after 9-11, that fight, and he was 36 then.
		How crazy is that?
unidentified		Yeah.
		How old was he when he fought Joe Smith?
		50?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		50. Maybe 51. Definitely 50. Crazy.
		So he was...
		I'd say he lasted 15 years longer than the average guy, you know?
		Well, how about when he came back and boxed Roy Jr.?
		Yeah.
		Well, when Roy beat him the first time, he was beating him with all those reflexes.
		And then when the reflexes slid off, he clearly out-boxed Roy in the second fight with just fundamentals, perfect mechanics.
		Because Roy didn't have them.
		He didn't have them.
		Yeah.
		He was relying on what was once there.
		But it wasn't.
		He was a shell of his former self.
		Well, it was also the Glenn Johnson fight.
unidentified		It was a scary knockout.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was on Queer Street.
		Well, he was just flatlined and astral traveling.
		After he got knocked out by Tarver, then there was not that much time in between those two fights.
		No, no.
		It was the next fight.
		Yeah.
		And those knockouts where...
		You're out on your feet before you hit the ground, then your head hits the canvas, which is two shots, man.
		And he was stiffened up.
		It was sad to watch.
		It was.
		I thought that was going to be the end.
		Me too.
		And then he started fighting in Russia, getting sanctioned over there.
		He's a Russian citizen.
		Yes, man.
		Bizarro world.
unidentified		Russian pussy involved.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's got to have some toto over there, man, to do that.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		When you're talking about Larry Holmes, I looked up his Wikipedia.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		His last fight was in 2002 against Butterbean.
unidentified		He was 51 or so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he put it on Butterbean.
unidentified		10 round fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
		And Butterbean can crack.
		That big motherfucker hit hard.
		Hard.
		But Larry just, that snake, that snake of a jab.
		You're not getting through that.
		Yeah, pop.
		Every time he tries to come in, bang, bang.
unidentified		Remember that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When dudes would wear those goldenpalace.com things in his back?
		Yes, Bernard was the first person he did in the Tito fight, remember?
		Was that the first?
		Yeah.
		Yeah, that was so weird.
		Someone did it in the UFC, too.
unidentified		They wore that shit on their back.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's odd.
		Just put it on your trunks or you're gonna do it, I guess.
		Well, you don't get as much money.
		I know Bernard got 50k to put it on his back and he bet it on himself against Tito.
unidentified		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you know he was a huge underdog.
		Everyone thought Tito was gonna whoop his ass.
		Everyone.
		Everyone.
		I was jumping off my brother's couch when that happened.
unidentified		Yeah, he fucked him up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, man.
		Yeah, Bernard was a special athlete.
		He really was.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Special fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All-time great.
unidentified		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Definitely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And it was interesting because I used to watch him when he was in his 30s and he would complain about crooked promoters and all these things.
		Yeah.
		And my thought was, man, it's too bad this guy missed his prime.
		Right.
		And then he did what he did.
		And then he did what he did after that.
		After that, yeah.
		Because he was in jail for strong-arm robbery and got out and kind of wallowed in obscurity.
		And then his shot was that Roy fight.
		And we were like, ah, you got your shot.
		I guess that's it.
		It just got better.
		Better with age.
		It's like the rarest thing in anything.
		Well, the discipline that he had.
		That's what it is.
		It's extraordinary discipline and his mindset.
		It should be a lesson to everyone.
		The discipline and dedication to whatever you want to do can be achieved through that.
		And he's still in good shape.
		Amazing shape.
unidentified		That's the other thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He doesn't balloon up.
		No, never.
		Never.
		I see him at the fights.
		He's still the same.
		Oscar's chubby now.
		But I don't blame those dudes.
		When Duran got really big, that dude was cutting when he was trying to make 135 and all that.
		He just kept going up because he liked to eat.
		When he fought at Ram Barkley at 168, I missed a dude who turned pro at 135. Well, I remember when he fucked up Davey Moore.
		I was like, whoa!
		That was unreal, man.
		I was like, what is this?
		Everybody thought Davey Moore, this young lion that's going to destroy this old legend.
		Roberto thumbed him.
		Duran's in my top five all time.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Any weight class, top five.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I always tell people if you really want to watch Roberto, you got to watch the lightweight Roberto.
		Well...
		Before I even went to fight Leonard.
		The black and white fights.
		Yeah.
		Because people...
		Ken Buchanan.
		Most...
		Right.
		Ken Buchanan.
		Oh, that's beautiful.
		Most people in America think of Duran from like Sugar Ray on.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm like, you want to see art.
		Yeah.
		And...
		Just subtle shit on the inside that he was doing before Chavez.
		That little subtle shit on the inside and picking off shots that people don't know as defense.
		He was eating none of those shots on the inside and then banging the body and all of that.
		Those fights were art.
		Yes, he was great at 40, 47, 54, 60. He did amazing things.
		And again, that's why he's in my top five.
		But you're right.
		If people want to see Duran, watch those fights at Lightweight.
		Yeah, he came up in weight just to get paid.
		Of course.
		I mean, he could have stayed at lightweight for a long time.
		Of course, and just dominated a bit.
		I still, even now, think he's the best lightweight ever.
		Wow.
		I don't think there's any lightweight that was better.
		Well, he was shredded back then.
		Yes.
		With that fucking dark goatee.
		He looked like the devil.
		I said, once I'm on a post, I said, if I'm in a dark alley, I'm more scared of Duran than Tyson.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		All day.
		That motherfucker will do some shit to us that I don't know Mike's capable of.
		There was an interview where they went to see him in Panama, and he picked up a cat by the tail and smashed it against a brick wall.
		Yeah, okay.
		I don't want to see that guy in an alley.
		Yeah, and the interviewer was like, what?
		Yeah.
		He just grabbed a cat and chucked it against a wall.
		Look, man.
		I mean, look.
		There's a darkness to that.
		Yeah.
		You're a couple sandwiches short of a picnic if you're doing that.
		Well, I mean, you've got to think about a guy growing up in Panama when he did...
		You're fighting for your life.
		No rugs, no floor, mud.
		That's another level of poverty that we don't get.
		The very first thing you said in this interview, well, we were born in America.
		We already had that.
		One step above all these, you know what I mean?
		You're talking about Castro's Cuba.
		He won't let those amateurs leave, bro.
		Rigondia had to escape.
		All those dudes had to escape.
		Arislandi Lara, his family's there, bro.
		These dudes leave their family on a fucking Not a boat, on a fucking raft.
		Because Castro's like, no, we want to build the amateur program.
		That's why Ringgandia, he's got dudes in like two Olympics.
		You try to make it to one and then go pro and he won't let them.
		The program, I don't know if his son, it seems like...
		They're a little different now.
		There's a shift culturally there now?
		They let Yoel Romero come back.
		Yeah.
		Yoel Romero went back and he was hanging out there, but he said it was very tense.
		Like, you don't talk, you don't say nothing.
		Really?
unidentified		He's like, yeah.
unidentified		He goes, because everybody's jealous.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're all mad that you get to come back and forth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because, you know, Yoel Romero, top UFC fighter, he went back.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't go back.
		I wouldn't go back.
		Not if I had the life I had here.
		You know what I mean?
		Being a top guy and getting paydays.
		I understand why he went back.
		Of course I understand why.
		You know what I mean?
		But if me and you go to Italy knowing we might not come back here, look, they can have it.
		Yeah, they can have it.
		I got pictures.
		There you go.
		I got family and we got WhatsApp and shit like that.
		Whatever.
		Yeah, I'm not interested in going anywhere.
		I can't come back.
		No, man.
		Yeah.
		But I just don't think we'll ever understand what it's like to be essentially a prisoner in a communist dictatorship.
		Absolutely.
		And to grow up through the amateur program.
		And when Yoel Romero was on the podcast, Joey Diaz was translating for him.
		It was beautiful.
		And he was explaining what life is like in these amateur programs.
		He's like, you are sharing time with 10 other people that want your spot.
		Yeah.
		And that's what you're doing all day long.
		You're training with 10 other people.
		That's all those kids do, man.
		That's all they do.
		It's all they know.
		And you think about...
		There's no scenario where I'm jumping in shark-infested waters on a fucking raft.
		And if you're driven to do that...
		Whatever drives you to do that must be fucking heavy, man.
		And of course, him telling you that allowed you into the mind of that fighter.
		That's a very rare experience that you had, that he shared that.
		Because a lot of these dudes don't get to tell their story, you know what I mean?
		Of what it was like, and the amateur program, being stuck there, being a prisoner.
		Once these dudes get out, some of them, there'll be Olympic Games in, say, Europe, and they'll escape from there.
		They'll just dart after the fight.
		That's what happened with Yoel.
		He escaped in Germany.
		Okay, yeah.
		A couple people did the same thing, like Russia, wherever they were at for games, and got the fuck out.
unidentified		I mean, that...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Him getting in the ring after going through that is cake.
		You know what I mean?
		He's living training in a gym and sleeping on a bed with sheets.
		It's like, this is cake.
		That's the shit we don't appreciate when I was talking about being a negative person.
		He was talking about in the amateur program, if you do well, if you're at the top, you get three meals a day.
		If you don't do so well, you get two.
unidentified		Like you're literally fighting for your ability to eat.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's insane.
		Like we don't, we can't understand that.
		No, man.
		Not on any level.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, imagine that's all you've ever known too.
		Of course.
		And then you see these slobs in America complaining.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		You know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's how I... When I started seeing shit, some of the places in Eastern Europe that weren't part of the union yet and in Squala and two-year-olds asking me for money, I'm like, yo, man, get your shit together, meaning me.
		Right.
		Yo, get your way of thinking, change it, because this is this kid's reality.
		Yeah.
		She's a two-year-old girl.
		Her mom's telling her to come over, you know, asking me for euro.
		Yeah.
		That's...
		That's a game changer.
		And if that doesn't change you, I don't know, man.
		You're off.
		The biggest mindfuck is that if you make $35,000, you're in the 1% of the world.
		When people talk about 1%, as you think about people with yachts and private jets and fucking diamond rings.
		Nope.
		1% is $35,000 a year for the world.
		Yeah, man.
		Yeah, that's sobering.
		That's scary.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When you travel a lot, like where's your favorite places to go?
		I know you do.
		Europe.
unidentified		You travel all over the place, Tori.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I love Scandinavia.
unidentified		Really?
unidentified		Why's that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I hate the heat, bro.
unidentified		Oh, do you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm like one of those dudes with the air conditions on 24 hours and it's 30 degrees.
		It's mega clean, too.
		It's super clean.
		It looks fake.
		It looks like a movie set.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the crowds are crazy.
		I mean, I'm from Italy, so of course I love that.
		Australia was incredible, but I almost had a nervous breakdown on the flight.
unidentified		Oh, because it's too long?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bro...
		Bro.
		It's a flight and a half, man.
		Bro, it's five or six hours from Philly, and then you fly out of LA Acton with another 17. Is it a 17 to Australia?
		If you leave from Philly, it's 22. Right.
unidentified		That's a long way to go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look, man.
		Look, man.
		How much is it if you go the other way?
		On the way home, we were the farthest point in Australia.
		So the flight in Australia was like six hours.
		So from the time I texted my mom, mom, I'm leaving to come home to Philadelphia, I got home 36 hours later.
unidentified		Ooh.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So they offer me constantly to come back.
		And, you know, this is what we do for a living.
		We go places.
		And I'm like, yo, man, that flight, nervous breakdown.
		You have to decide what's more important, money or your mental stability.
		And I'm already nuttier than squirrel shit, so I don't need...
		I don't need anything to push me any further than it's already what's going on in between my ears.
		Thailand is a similar thing.
		It's like 14 and then another 5. I think it was like 11 to go to Europe.
unidentified		Or where did we go?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think we went to Taiwan first.
		And then it was another like five or something.
		But by the time you're back, you're so confused.
		It took me two solid weeks before I started sleeping at night again.
		I think it took me three.
		I'd wake up like two hours later, I'd go to bed, tired as fuck.
		Wake up two hours later, wide awake.
		It was two in the morning.
unidentified		I'm like, what is this?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Your whole circadian rhythms.
		Jacked.
		Fucked.
		It takes forever to get back.
		Yeah, man.
		Took me two or three weeks, too.
		And we fucked up.
		My family, we did two trips in the summer.
		We went to Thailand, and then we took two weeks off, and then we went to Italy.
		So it was just a double bonker.
		So was it enough for you to be like, I'm not going back?
		No!
		No, I like it.
		I've learned how to travel.
		I really like taking my kids places too.
		I really like the fact that I like to expose them to places like Thailand and Italy and take them to different places.
		I like exposing them to Costa Rica.
		Well, we didn't get to do that.
		So the fact that you have the ability to do that, it's beautiful for them.
		That's cool shit to say that they did that.
		I'm enjoying it more than I ever thought I would.
		Being a parent to me is, it's not just a beautiful thing to watch these little people that I love so much grow and have fun and be happy.
		But it's also, I'm getting to experience the world through their eyes.
		Watch them ride an elephant in Thailand.
		Watch them, you know, watch them zipline with me in Costa Rica.
		We're laughing together on the beach.
		That's heavy, man.
		It's intense, man.
		It is.
		It really is.
		It's intense and it's made me shift My values and shift how I think about just experiencing things.
		Yeah.
		It's a heavy thing, man.
		They change you in ways you didn't think were possible.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know?
		Empathy.
		But like you said, seeing things through their eyes, that's like the coolest thing, you know what I mean?
		Because we didn't have that.
unidentified		Yeah, it's weird.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's weird, man.
		It makes you feel super vulnerable too, you know?
		Like you were talking about your mom, like worrying about your mom.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You worry about people that you care about.
		It's one of the things that's like a catch-22.
		It's like if you're on your own, you don't have to worry about nobody.
		You don't give a fuck about nothing.
		Right.
		But you also don't have anything.
		Right.
		So when you have all these people that you love and you care about so much, then you worry about losing them.
		It's a double-edged sword, man.
unidentified		It's heavy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because when I was alone just wilding, it's like I was behaving that way because I had nothing.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you're looking for something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Then you find it, and all you do is worry about losing it.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it goes back to what we were talking about earlier.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you're not scared a little, if you're not nervous a little, if you don't get a little bit of anxiety, well, you're not paying attention.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're not living your life.
		No, you're not seeing anything.
		You're not putting yourself out there.
		Right.
		If you're putting yourself out there, you're going to have some anxiety.
		You're going to have some fear.
unidentified		You're going to have some worries.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, those people that don't have that don't put themselves out there.
unidentified		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They live in a bubble and they're comfortable in that bubble.
		They live gray and dry.
		Yes.
		It's that Nietzsche question.
		Would you rather live your life in a series of tremendous highs and tremendous lows or just...
unidentified		Flatlining.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Flatlining.
		These people think flatlining, that square life is like, yo...
		You know, 2.5 kids in a house.
		Like, this is it.
		I'm like, no, that's not it, man.
		It's not it.
		I mean, there's nothing wrong with having 2.5 kids in a house, but go do some shit.
		No, that's what I meant.
		Take your kids.
		Yeah, that's what I meant.
		Go to the woods.
		Go rafting.
		Sure.
		You know?
		Yeah, get something done, man.
		We went whitewater rafting last year in Montana.
		That was shit, too.
		Wow.
		With the kids?
		Yeah, man.
		Glacier River, you know, fucking freezing cold water, bears everywhere and shit.
unidentified		Wow.
		Nuts, man.
		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're going rafting down this river and you're seeing trout jump and it's like just getting to see them experience shit.
		Like we took them to Yellowstone.
		They got to see bison, you know, wild bison up close.
		Yeah, so their minds are just blown by it.
		I just want them to see as much shit as I can show them.
		That's great, man.
		I want them to see.
		I mean, every few months, my wife and I sit down and talk like, what are we going to do this summer?
		Where are we going to take them?
		This year was Thailand.
		Where are we going to go next year?
		We've got to take them somewhere else weird.
		God bless.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's fun, man.
		It's fascinating.
		It's a weird life education that I didn't anticipate.
		Of course.
		You build it, man.
		You deserve it.
		Because you did it your way.
		And that's punk rock as fuck.
unidentified		Punk rock as fuck.
		That's funny.
		Yeah.
		When you're traveling, how many guys are you bringing with you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's usually, so there's three of us on stage, like me rhyming, a hype man, and a DJ, and then a tour manager, and a merch guy.
		So usually five.
		That's a good thing because comics a lot of times travel by themselves.
		Right.
		They get depressed.
		Well, I know like Artie would talk about it a lot, like just being alone in a hotel room in fucking Schenectady.
		I figured that shit out a long time ago, though.
		I started bringing my friends with me.
		Because in promoters or clubs, they wouldn't pay for the friend.
		So I would just say, look, give me a flat rate.
		I'll pay my opening act.
		I'll pay their airfare.
		I'll pay their hotel.
		I'd rather lose money.
		On my earlier tours, the promoters didn't care about opening acts.
		And I was paying my homeboys to be the opening acts, just like you.
		What I was getting paid, I was handing it to them.
		Same thing.
		But it's a better experience.
		It is, because you're keeping yourself sane.
		Yeah, and you have family on the road.
		Like, if I go on the road with Joey or Ari or any of those guys, we're family.
		Tony, we're having a good time.
		Sure.
		You know, it's like, wherever we are, like, what time do you guys want to eat?
unidentified		Let's eat at lunch.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Noon.
		Okay, I'll meet you guys down there.
		Yeah, that's how we are.
unidentified		You guys want to go to the gym?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go hit the gym.
		That's how we are.
		Laughing and having a good time, but in the early days, I did a lot of those solo trips.
		There's a weird, empty feeling you have.
		Sure, man.
		That's very dark.
		Did you see that Louis episode that he did about traveling and he's alone?
		It's a whole episode dedicated to what you just said, and it was very dark.
		It was not humorous.
		You gotta take friends with you.
		I have friends to this day that don't do it that way.
		They use local acts, and I'm like, man, don't do it.
		Yeah, but then I'd have to pay for his airfare.
		I'm like, pay the money!
		Sure, man, sure.
		I know you're gonna make less money that way, but you'll feel better.
		There comes a time where those decisions, where you're doing things monetarily, You're making this decision based on financial and you have to worry about your mental stability more.
		Yeah.
		Whatever the opener would get, if it's five hundred, a grand, three grand, five, whatever it is, that's worth having family with you.
		Not only that, I feel like your performance is going to be better.
		Of course!
		Because you're going to be with friends, you're going to have a good time, you're not worried about the show, you bring a funny guy to open up for you.
		And you know he's good.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then, so then more people will come to your next show.
unidentified		Of course.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like, it's better for you financially.
		It's a short-term investment for long-term gain.
		Of course.
unidentified		Of course.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what these people think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're Pennywise and Pound Foolish.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
		They don't understand it.
		When, what you're doing, everyone's going to kill people.
		And then it's going to be double the people next time.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
		Well, at least everybody's going to have a good time.
		And you're not going to get out of there crazy.
		When I come back Sunday morning, I might be tired, but at least I had a good time.
		Sure.
		I don't feel like I'm going to fucking shoot myself.
		Absolutely.
		Yeah.
		That's the real problem with travel.
		It's fucking depressing.
		You know, one of the things I read about an interview with Bourdain after he died, I started reading a bunch of shit that he had...
		It blindsided me.
		I didn't see it coming.
		And then after he died, I read a bunch of his stuff where he was talking about how intensely lonely it was when he was traveling.
		And I knew he traveled with people that he cared about.
		He traveled with people that he liked.
		But I think just traveling 250 days a year, period, will fuck you up.
		Absolutely.
		I can't say that...
		People being with me, I still don't feel lonely because there's a connection to home.
		Once I separate from that, from home, from Philly, from my mom, all of that, once I'm separated from that reality...
		I love having my friends around me and it makes it better, but it doesn't fix it.
		There's still this sense of I'm out here alone.
		And I can't make any sense out of that because I'm technically not alone.
		So it doesn't make much sense.
		You're not home though.
		Right.
		I read something where you were saying that this might be your last tour.
		I don't know, man.
		It's coming.
unidentified		Yeah?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How old do you know?
		I'll be 41 on October 5th.
		And you're just getting tired of it?
		It's draining me, man.
		Forget the physical.
		It's draining my spirit.
		It's the anxiety before I'm leaving.
		Say you get nervous like three days before you're leaving.
		Now it's starting like two months before I'm leaving.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		When you go out, how long do you go out for?
		That's changed too.
		I mean, I would go out for six weeks, 42 shows in a row before, you know, before.
		Now I got like...
		Two, two and a half weeks in me, then I'll come home.
		When I come back from Cali, then I go to Europe.
		But, you know, again, to say last tour, it's like, I don't want to fucking turn into Gene Simmons.
		You know what I'm saying?
		Where it's like, this is it, so come see me.
		You're never going to see me again.
		I'm not doing that.
		That was in the 1980s they did that.
		Yeah, in 83 or something.
		I don't want to do that.
		It's why I chose my words properly, where it was more like, You know, I'm getting run down and, you know, traveling is, again, it's no different than you.
		It's beautiful being up on stage when people are laughing, you know, but getting there, the flights, the this, the that, the hotels, it's just, I don't, you know, it's something that you can never explain to someone who doesn't do it and why exactly you're tired.
		Still, when you walk out on stage in Germany or some shit.
		It all goes away.
		And everybody goes crazy.
		It all goes away, man.
		Other side of the planet.
		Other side of the planet.
		It's still the most humbling thing in the world, because it's still in my head, like, now I'm a kid from Philly, you know?
		Like, it was rhyming on street corners.
		Ladies and gentlemen, Vinny Pass.
		Yeah.
		That could never...
		It's crazy, right?
		Never not feel great, you know?
unidentified		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's...
		I almost feel bad for people that will never experience that.
		Sure, sure.
unidentified		It's a mindfuck.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's unreal.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like pinch yourself shit.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, you're like, how the fuck did that?
		Sometimes you got to step back, you know?
		I don't think it's people we do that enough.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, because we're living in the moment.
		Like, even right now, like, I've been a fan of yours for a very long time.
		And just to have this convo with you, It's beautiful.
		And it's gonna be a mindfuck later.
		After I think about it.
		You know what I mean?
		Because we're just talking like old friends now.
		You know what I mean?
		But it's like, I've been following your whole career.
		You know what I mean?
		And been a fan your whole career.
		I still get weirded out when I meet people.
		Of course.
		It's weird.
		Of course.
		Known someone for a long time by watching their stuff or listening to their stuff.
		And then you're right in front of them like, hey.
		Yeah, man.
		Yeah, I became friends with Bill Paxton because he was like, can I come to the show?
		I'm a fan.
		What?
unidentified		That guy was great.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he was the best.
		He was the best.
		You know what I loved him in?
		Remember that vampire movie?
		Oh, shit.
		What the fuck was that movie called?
		I don't remember what that was called.
unidentified		What was that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		God damn it.
		Did you see the shit he directed, Frailty?
		I did see that.
		That was good.
unidentified		That was very good.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was creepy.
		Very creepy.
		Yeah.
		What the fuck was that vampire movie?
		Jamie's got it.
unidentified		What is it, Jamie?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Near Dark.
		That was a great...
		That's one of the best vampire movies ever.
		And one of the ones that people forgot about.
		Jamie's like, this motherfucker.
unidentified		He's a wizard.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yo, man.
		You're like not even finished sentences and shit.
		He's on the ball.
		Well, we've been working together a long time.
unidentified		It's telepathic.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what's going on.
		I can tell.
		I can tell.
		Much respect, man.
		Paxton was in a gang of good movies, man.
		Yeah, man.
		He was great.
		Bro, Chet.
		Yeah.
		You're stewed, buttwad.
		Yeah.
		Aliens.
		Yes.
		He was in Aliens, the second Alien movie.
		Remember, he's in the first scene of Terminator.
		He's the punk rock that takes his clothes, remember?
		That's right.
		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Talented guy.
		Very sad, man.
		That guy went on fucking Good Morning America.
		Yeah, he went on Good Morning America and bigged me up to, like, Kathy Lee.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's like, I heard you're a hip-hop fan.
		He's like, yeah, Jedi Mind Tricks.
		I was like, what the fuck?
		You want to talk about what the fuck?
		You know what I mean?
		That's amazing.
		I got one sock on, my hair sticking up, and Bill Paxton saying my name on Good Morning America.
		How old was he when he died?
		I can't, 56?
		I see he was only like 50-something.
		Yeah, man, he was young.
unidentified		Died of a stroke.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was young.
		Goddammit.
		And not a dude who, like, he was in good shape and, you know, lived well.
		62?
unidentified		Fuck.
unidentified		Stroke.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jesus Christ.
		And he had a young son, has a young son, you know, very young.
		He's only 21 now, 22, you know, so that's...
		Yeah.
		You never know, man.
		You do never know, yeah.
		That's a hard life too, man, that movie star life.
		Oh, poor baby, it's a movie star.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But those set days are rough, man.
		16 hours a day.
		16, 18 hours standing around.
		Waiting, and then you gotta do it again the next day, and you're working six, seven days a week.
		Rarely do you have a day off, because their budget is only a certain amount.
		They gotta smash in all the filming.
		So you're doing 42 days in a row or something.
		Yeah, everybody's on everybody's nerves.
		You're on top of people, and it's stressful and tense.
		You ever hear the Christian Bale rant?
		Yes, the fucking sound guy or the lighting guy was in his way.
		You fucking amateur, man!
		Losing it.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Loses his shit.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's an intense motherfucker, that guy.
		He is.
		Brilliant actor.
		Yeah.
		He's one of those I'll almost die for a part guys.
		Definitely.
		When he did the Dickie Eklund, the Mickey Ward shit, I think he almost died.
		Well, and then that was the second time he did that.
		The mechanic.
		The mechanic.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The machinist.
		The machinist.
		That shit is brilliant.
		It's not even a good movie.
		That's the problem.
		It's just a horror scene.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just a horror scene.
		Just seeing him literally on death's door.
		Yeah.
		That's the brilliance in it.
		I just don't understand people that are willing to do that.
		I mean, just do something else, man.
		Yeah, I'm not willing to do anything.
		Do a role where you don't have to starve yourself, man.
		Yeah, you had to have another script in front of you that day.
		And that's the thing.
		It's like, do that movie, and all that movie is known for is the fact that you almost died.
		Yeah.
unidentified		That's it.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Nobody's like, man, the machinist.
		When Robert De Niro gained a shitload of weight for Raging Bull, he got in fantastic shape, played Jake LaMotta, was ripped, and then gained a fuckload of weight to play Jake as he was older.
		You go, wow, that's some serious goddamn commitment.
		And it's one of the best movies ever.
		Yeah, that's the thing.
		It's one of the best movies ever.
		But if you do that, like Charlize Theron did that when she played Eileen Wuornos.
		Yeah, that was another one.
		And that was even more bold.
		She's a beautiful woman.
		So for her to get fat and disgusting like that, it's like, wow.
		Yeah, and that movie was great.
unidentified		It was a great movie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It won the Oscar, right?
		Or she did?
		Yeah.
		Uh, I think, yeah, she got gross, man.
		Jeez.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a horror movie.
		My friend Patty wrote and directed that.
		Oh, really?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Patty Jenkins in the house.
		Wow.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
		You think about how fucking smoking hot she is.
		Yeah, man.
		She got gross.
unidentified		Got rid of her eyelashes, her eyebrows.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Everything.
unidentified		Look at her with that Oscar.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ooh, same person.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hollow.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jesus.
		It makes you think, all these chubby, gross ladies, maybe just...
		Maybe they just need a little...
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A little motivation.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		You look like Charlize Theron.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a tough craft, that acting.
		It's one of those jobs where everybody wants to do it, but very few people can.
		And when you do do it, it's such an unbelievably grueling grind.
		You can only do it for so long.
		And if you're a woman...
		Man, you got just a few years in here, buddy.
		Oh, your window is very tiny.
		Especially if you're a hot woman.
		Yeah.
		There's a gang of those 22-year-old cupcakes coming up trying to take your spot.
		Absolutely.
		And they're just as crazy as you.
		They can cry on cue.
		And they will always be coming up.
		Always.
		Always bad parents out there making good actors.
		Absolutely.
		Making bad parental decisions and sending the kids to Hollywood.
		I mean, that's what it is here.
		There's a flood of...
		I mean, how often do you spend time out here?
		Pretty often.
		A couple times a year.
		I have a lot of, like, close friends out here.
		It's a strange place.
		It's a bizarro world.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And, like, Philly is not a showbiz hub.
		No, at all.
		But there's a lot of great showbiz, Kevin Hart, a lot of great bands, a lot of great music.
		Of course.
		Great stuff comes from Philly.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it's not a showbiz hub.
		It's not.
		It's not.
		I mean, we're 90 miles from New York, so that's like, you know, but not close enough.
		But this is a showbiz hub.
		Of course, yeah.
		So this attracts all the weirdos.
		I mean, every waiter is an aspiring actor, every bartender is an aspiring actor.
		I still, through all the times I've been coming here, can't wrap my head around that.
		Everyone's an aspiring something.
unidentified		Everyone.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Everyone.
		Yeah, that's what it is.
		It's the whole place.
		Well, the other thing is you get to know, like, I get to know people when they have kids.
		Like, your kids become friends with their kids.
unidentified		Sure.
unidentified		And then you meet the parents.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You think the parents are normal.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And it turns out, no, you know, there were actors that gave it up and sells fucking computers or whatever.
unidentified		Right, right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like everyone had this dream to come out here.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think if you...
		If you just took into account all showbiz aspirations in Southern California, you saw it on a map, like a little red light would go off wherever the showbiz aspirations were, it would be overwhelming, man.
		It would be.
		Whereas in places like Philly or Boston, where I'm from, you don't see much.
		No.
		Anyone with aspirations is sort of self-contained, and they do what's necessary.
		I've always been intrigued because LA and New York are those places where everyone you ask isn't from there.
		You know what I mean?
		The girl walking down the street in Manhattan is from Iowa.
		Right.
		She wants to be a model or whatever.
		And it's like, same thing out here.
		Like, oh, I'm from, you know, from wherever.
		Like, nobody's from here.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, not nobody, but, you know.
unidentified		Very few.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Very few.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's a total transient city.
		You know, and New York is a weird one, too, because whenever I'm in New York, I go, I look at all these people, I go, okay, how do you afford this?
		I just see a schmo walking down the street, and I'm like, yo, a closet here is like five grand a month, and it looks like you just walked out of a sewer like a chud.
unidentified		I don't understand it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't either.
		And, you know, I've talked to people that lived there in the 90s and still live there today.
		They're like, New York City used to be a lot of artists and a lot of weird people.
		Especially downtown.
		Yeah.
		Now, it's all finance people.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just so gentrified.
		It doesn't look like the New York that we used to see.
		Gentrified's a fun name for white people, right?
		It is.
unidentified		That's what it is, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It is, sure.
		It's happened in Philly, too.
		Is it?
		Yeah.
		Whitey's bum-rushing places that I used to hang out with.
		You had to speak Spanish to be there, and it was the hood.
		And now it's like white people walking.
		They look like they're in Weezer, walking little toy dogs.
		It's a murder scene, man.
unidentified		Well, that's a weird thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		DC has that, too.
		DC's weird in that the hood and the gentrified neighborhoods are like a block away from each other.
		That's how Philly is, and these motherfuckers are going to walk one block the wrong way and be fucking beheaded.
		But look, have at it, man, I guess.
unidentified		How does that work?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People go there for some sort of a professional gig, and they run out of real estate, so they just start redoing houses?
		Yeah, man.
		It's basically like glorified slumlord shit.
		And you can't displace poor people.
		It's not like they just disappear.
		Everyone's gotta go somewhere, you know what I mean?
		So you're basically playing Tetris with humans.
		This is like one of the worst hoods in Philly and now it's bougie.
		Is that really happening in Philly?
		Yeah, absolutely, man.
		Like, the only city more gentrified than New York is Philadelphia, in my opinion.
		Well, that's happening in Brownsville, right?
		Yeah, I mean, you can start going to East New York and Brownsville and say, gentrified, Bed-Stuy, you know, like, you're talking Bed-Stuy do or die, and now there's, like, white guys named Chip walking around.
		It's like, what's happening, man?
unidentified		So strange.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's bizarre.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Gentrification is just bizarre in general because I'm like, yo, where are you putting the people that are leaving?
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Where are they going?
		Well, whose responsibility is it?
		If you wanted to buy a building, are you supposed to think about the people that are poor that are there?
		Are you supposed to think about your money that you're buying the building for?
		The people that want to do it have to be cut from a different cloth that I'm not cut from.
		I couldn't do that.
		I couldn't do that.
		Just displace people?
unidentified		Sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a cutthroat mentality that's needed and it's needed in the music and entertainment industry that I don't have and it's probably held me back by being just like a good guy.
		There should I think so like in what way what should what could you have done that would have propelled you further?
		Well as far as like as far as being more popular I don't know but decisions I've made like when when you said You know you would pay for your buddies to come and I do too now If we had a financial advisor, they'd be like, you two are morons for doing that.
		I would tell them these wrong.
		Because I'd be performing better, so it'd be better shows.
		My lawyer's like, you're the worst client ever.
		You pay everyone.
		You pay them too well.
		You pay them too handsomely.
		Fuck everybody.
		I'm like, yo, man.
		I don't know if that helps you get by, though.
		I don't think that really advances you.
		If you have that mentality, I don't think that really advances you.
		I think what advances you is great work.
		That's fair.
		What does it take to make great work?
		I think there's got to be a certain amount of...
		You have to have a certain amount of chaos, but also a certain amount of peace.
		Yeah, of course.
		You know, and you get those from the...
		There's decisions that you've made, that I've made, that ultimately you've made them because that's who you are.
		Yeah, well, I think...
		In order for me to have altered who I am, then I would have had to live with that, too.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I don't want to not be who I am, because if I... I wouldn't want to do the...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Success wouldn't mean anything to me if I got there by not being me.
unidentified		Hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You gotta live with that, and that's worse than not succeeding, to me.
		You know, I don't know about other people.
		A lot of people just fake it, and they're not who they are, and they're okay with that if it comes with success.
		In order for me to shift who I am inherently, my fiber, my being, the way that I was raised to treat people, if I had to shift that and have success, the success wouldn't be success to me.
		It would be on paper.
		The rap business is just so strange.
		I don't know how you feel about mumble rap, but mumble rap is one of the weirdest things to me.
		I'm confused.
		It's bizarre.
		What is happening?
		I feel like I don't want to be that dude who doesn't get it.
		You know what I mean?
		But you don't get it.
		I don't.
unidentified		I don't get it either.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't, but...
		When you start dealing with youth culture, and when I was the age of these mumble rap kids, there were older heads saying, you know, the generation before us, the Cold Crush Brothers to the Big Daddy Canes, they probably thought what we were doing was crazy.
		So is that what's happening?
		I don't know.
		Maybe everyone's like, what the fuck is that?
		It's like...
		It's to the point with me where I'm like, yo, is that even a genre of rap?
		I almost look at it...
		I guess I don't have a problem with it because I don't process it as anything close to what I do.
		It's almost like if you said, yo, what do you think about EDM? I'd be like, oh, I don't know.
		I guess it's alright.
unidentified		It's...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		I don't even look at it like I can't listen to that and then hear Big Daddy Kane and think it's the same thing.
		Well, when we were kids listening to music, right, if you were listening to something that you enjoyed, one of the things you loved was like good lyrics.
		Of course.
		And when you can't understand what they're saying.
		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's also, it's just so driven by, it's like phrase driven.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They just say whatever the line.
		Over and over again.
		Over and over again, yeah.
		I don't know if like it's just because these kids are doing Molly or whatever, and they're just in a zone.
		Is it drug culture?
		Because that's happened before too.
		You know, one thing creates the other.
		It's like chicken or the egg.
		Are these kids doing Molly and make mumble rap?
		Are they doing mumble rap and everything?
		Eatin' Molly.
		And it's all, you know, the 60s, going back to the 50s and beatniks and that scene and jazz and heroin and what created it, you know what I mean?
		Did Miles and Coltrane make some of those records because they were on Heron or vice versa?
		It's happened.
		Historically, is this just a drug-driven culture?
		I don't know.
		Because I'm detached, you know?
		I'm detaching that.
		And, you know, I'm a kid who grew up...
		Listening to metal and stuff like that.
		I'm not at a shortage for...
		I'll listen to Slayer.
		I'll just listen to Slayer before I listen to that.
		If that's my only option, then I'll listen to Slayer.
		You know what I mean?
		I'll listen to Black Flag.
		I'll listen to Minor Threat.
		That's what I'll do.
		However I feel about it, it becomes irrelevant when you realize that...
		You have so much good shit out there.
		It's like with film.
		I'm not worried about a bad movie.
		I'll just watch a dope movie.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's so many movies.
		They're not throwing them away.
		Right.
		And it's like, yo, I'll just listen to Thin Lizzy if I don't feel like...
		Adjusting to that.
		You know what I mean?
		And there's other things that we might not get because we're not doing what we used to do.
		Maybe if we were out of the bar or the club five nights a week and you weren't married with kids and we were hammered, maybe it sounds different.
		You know, it's time and place shit.
		It's like you hear certain songs and you're like, I'm not listening to this in my car.
		I'm rolling the windows up if someone sees this.
		But maybe it affects them differently in a live environment or something.
		I don't know.
		I'm playing devil's advocate.
		I just...
		It's just a strange trend where it's a lot of mumbling.
unidentified		I'm like, what?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what they're on about.
unidentified		Cough syrup?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think this is Lean and Miley.
		And I think that...
		That drug culture created that.
		I have a friend of mine who's a real estate agent.
		Some mumble rapper was working in the house.
		And she's like, I literally had no idea what the fuck he was saying.
		So him talking as a human, he mumbles.
		Wow.
		See, I didn't know that.
		I thought it was like their style when they rhymed.
		But maybe it was just this one.
unidentified		She was showing him this dope house and he's mumbling up a storm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		So he's like asking her for a jacuzzi and she thinks she's ordering a pizza.
		I don't know.
		I mean, you know, I love listening to Nas and I love listening to Public Enemy and clean lyrics, you know, that had a hit to them.
		Yeah, KRS-One.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Big Daddy King.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
unidentified		Whoop, whoop.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a son of the police.
		That's hip hop.
		Yeah, there was something to it, though, that you knew that they were trying to get a message across along with the music.
unidentified		Of course.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There was something cool about it.
		Yeah, I think maybe these kids think you can't do both.
		Yeah.
		And our era was different.
		It's like people could dance to Public Enemy and they were talking about what was going on in the urban community.
		That era, there were boogie down production KRS records.
		You could dance the sound of the police.
		You could dance out of here.
		You could dance.
		I think there's a disconnect with these kids that they don't think you can say something.
		and...
		Have people dance or whatever.
		I don't know what these fucking mumble motherfuckers are doing.
		They might just slobber in the corner.
		Well, they all have to have tattoos on their face, too.
		Oh, yeah.
		That's another mockery.
		That's like part of the program.
		That's like another mockery.
		There's a tattoo.
		Just settle down, man.
		You know they don't come off, right?
		You know?
		It's like, I think these kids think they can come off.
		I don't think they care.
unidentified		I just don't think they care.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't think they're thinking.
		I mean, it's all this I-don't-give-a-fuck culture.
		Yeah.
		And they're not trying to get cool shit on their face.
		They're trying to get, like, scribbles.
		Yeah.
		No, it looks like, you know, you're drawing the face of the drunk kid at the party.
		That's what they all look like.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know?
		They all look like that with pink dreads.
		There's a lot of rap music that slips through the cracks, too.
		A lot of people forget about Gangstar.
		Yeah, they're one of the greatest groups ever.
		It becomes the responsibility of the culture to uphold that.
		When someone like Mitch Hedberg, who passed away young, someone like Bill Hicks...
		The comedic community, it's their responsibility that those guys don't get forgotten.
		And it's the same with hip hop.
		It's my responsibility to talk about Gangstar in interviews so the 16 year old kid says, oh, I'll check that out.
		It's my responsibility to talk about Big Daddy Kane and Cool G Rap.
		Cool G Rap.
		A lot of people forget about Cool G Rap.
		To me, he's the greatest of all time.
		He was one of the greatest, for sure.
		I've listened to so much of his shit.
		Yeah, to me, he's the best ever.
		That song, Cock Blockin'?
		Oh, God.
		Just ignorance at its finest.
		That's a great fucking song.
		The guy says, stand up and wipe his dick on your curtain.
		Might be the best rap lyric of all time.
		Yeah, people forgot about Cool G Rap.
		But if you think about Hicks, right?
		So he was 33, and that was like 93. There's young kids that love comedy that don't know about Bill, and he influenced my life.
		Because towards the end, he was doing more social commentary than anything.
		Yeah, a lot of it wasn't even that funny.
		It stopped being jokes.
		It was just like he was expanding his mind and felt like talking about it.
		And Hedberg was brilliant.
		It's our responsibility to carry the torch of all these people that were great minds that left too soon with Bourdain.
		I don't want people to forget about that guy.
		You know what I'm saying?
		He was special.
		Well, luckily we have a lot of shows to watch.
		His show was so unique too because of his narration.
		What's going to be interesting, I have the newest one with W. Kamau Bell.
		I haven't watched that yet, but it apparently is the last one where he does narration.
		Oh, okay.
		And then all the other ones from this season was after he died.
		So someone else is going to...
		No, no.
		They're not going to do any narration.
		Oh, okay.
		They're just going to let the show play itself out.
		Just be what it is.
		They're going to do it, I guess, somehow with editing, and they're going to figure it out.
		Yeah.
		It's tough, man.
		Another punk rock guy, too.
		Oh, yeah, man.
		That guy went hard.
		Yeah, man.
		He went hard.
		OG. Yeah.
		If you look at him from, like, 2014 and then look at him from 2018, it's like he lived several decades inside of a few years.
		Yeah.
		He went hard.
		He was going hard.
		He was going hard.
		Yeah, I don't know if I recommend it, but, you know, I mean, he said it best.
		You know, you should treat your body like it's an amusement park.
		He did.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean there's something that we all we all have in common with all these artists is that there's an understanding that we have that they're all living this Non-standard way of getting through this life that they're all living this this That's
		right.
		He doesn't even know anybody there.
		He just goes there.
		Or whether it's Bourdain who would make these shows about it or whether it's musicians or comedians or anybody who does these things.
		I think I take comfort in the fact that there's guys like you out there and that everybody's not trying to be some cardigan-wearing, button-down, fake progressive who's just trying to not have people mad at him.
		So he's trying to...
		Say the things that you think you're supposed to say so that everybody likes you and then before you know it, you're dead.
		There's no rebellion.
		No.
		No personal, real, objective opinions on things.
		Everything great that's ever come has come out of rebellion.
		It's come out of a fuck you.
		To something.
		If not a fuck you, fuck me.
		Yeah, sure.
		What is this?
		What are we doing?
		Fuck my life.
		Fuck, yeah.
		Fuck this!
		If I don't know what I'm doing, then I have to explore everything I can to try to figure out what I'm doing.
		You know what I mean?
		That's the only way to learn.
		To say, I don't know what I'm doing, and then live in a bubble, it's the antithesis of how to fix that.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The beautiful thing is that a guy like you or me or other people that are living these different alternative lives, the other thing they do is they send a signal to that kid who's sitting in his room right now.
		His parents are yelling at him because he's got all D's.
		And he's like, I can't fucking do this.
		But you know what I really like to do?
		I really like to listen to rap.
		Or I really like to listen to stand-up.
		Or I really like to do whatever the fuck it is.
unidentified		I really like to read books.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I just don't want to...
		Telling that kid it's okay is an important part of what we do.
		It's a huge part.
		Telling that kid the system that they have set up for you, where you go through this bullshit education process, then next thing you know you're in some fucking factory job or some nonsense cubicle.
		That is not good.
		Right.
		And they're not telling you that educational system.
		They're not telling you anything.
		They're not telling you about finance.
		They're not telling you about diet.
		They're not telling you.
		Think about what we learned in high school and how it applies to our life.
		Almost nothing.
		Information with no...
		It's literally like giving you an engine but not giving you driving lessons.
		Yeah.
		And think of what they could be doing to prepare you.
		Yeah.
		It's out there.
		Like, why aren't you giving these kids Kafka or Nietzsche?
		Or why aren't you telling them that this is terrible for you or this is filled with chemicals or this is...
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's information that needs to be out there.
		You know, I don't...
		Did you ever learn anything about money?
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Me neither.
		Nothing.
		You have to have it.
		You gotta pay your bills.
		Yeah, I know that much.
		Get a good job.
		Yeah.
		Don't be a loser.
		You're right.
		That's all I know.
		Fuck.
		And then how am I gonna do that?
		Because I don't want to do that.
		I don't want to be in a cubicle.
		I know that.
		So how do I maneuver this?
		What do I do?
unidentified		Nobody knows.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Nobody knows.
		And if you tell people you want to try something different, like I want to be a rapper, get the fuck out of here.
		Forget about it, man.
		Forget about it.
		Get a job.
		Yes.
		So you're not just fighting the machine.
		You're fighting people that love you.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They don't want you to be a loser.
		Yeah.
		And you're trying to do the opposite of that.
		You're trying to change.
		You're trying to break the cycle of this...
		You know, you go to school, then you get a job, or you go to school, then you go to college, and then you get into $250,000 worth of debt to go work a job you hate to pay off that $250,000 debt.
		And it's the cycle, and that's the cycle of this country.
		And the fucked up thing is, if you want to do something different, nobody's got a path for you.
		Like, if you say, hey, you know, I really love hip-hop.
		I want to be a rapper.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No one says, oh, well, that's a viable job opportunity.
		Obviously, a lot of people are rappers.
		You can do this.
		This is something you can do.
		No one says that.
		Nobody.
		No one.
		If you tell them you want to be a stand-up, what are you, fucking out of your mind?
		You're not funny.
		My own mom told me that.
		Did she?
		Wow.
unidentified		I never thought you were very funny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mom, wait till I talk shit about you and all the people laugh.
		Yeah, and the weightlifting skit you did.
		Ma!
		That was me and Brian Cowan.
		Brilliant.
		Yeah, but this alternative lives, like outside of the straight and narrow structure that most people follow, that's available to people.
		They just have to have more examples of it.
		People like us are examples.
		There is, though, I will say this.
		You have to have balls to do it.
		And you have to be able to look at things honestly and fix things that aren't right.
		Of course.
		And that shit I didn't do.
		I wasn't being self-aware at certain times.
		And then once you start doing that and saying, maybe this is me.
		Maybe this is me.
		And if I change this, you see instant results.
		You know what I mean?
		How long have you been doing it for?
		I wrote my first rhyme at nine, but it was like the worst thing ever.
unidentified		Wow.
unidentified		What was your early influences?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, my brothers brought home Sucker MCs.
		That was 83. It was like little.
		I played it on my Muppets turntable.
		And the first record where I said, I want to rap was La Tee, This Cuts Got Flavor.
		I was like, I want to do this.
		And then I did, remember Candy Girl by New Edition?
		Yes.
		I did, I rapped on that at the, in like third grade talent show.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Third grade?
		Yeah, my mom's got it on VHS and threatens me with it.
unidentified		I'm like, that's not a threat, put it up.
unidentified		You don't gotta threaten me with that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When I was in junior high school, I heard Sugar Hill Gang for the very first time.
		Life-changing.
		And I remember thinking, whoa, this is a new kind of music.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This is a new thing.
unidentified		Hip-hop, a hibbity-hip-hop, a dibbity-beat, don't stop, a rocket to the bang, jump boogie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Crazy.
		Yeah, I mean, I remember thinking, like, wow, this is a new thing.
		Yeah.
		And then when Run DMC was so hard with Suck MCs, I was like, yo, what the fuck is this?
		Because Sugar Hill, I obviously loved that record and changed the course of history, but they were rhyming over the chic instrumental.
		But when Suck MCs just rocked those drums.
		You know, those hard drums.
		And then being from Philly, like, hearing Schoolie D and, like, you know, these hard records.
		But, like, first time, like, I rhymed, like, to record something.
		Like, um, like, 90, 91. You know?
		And it was awful, you know?
		But it's, um...
		You just work on your craft and hope that you get to a point where people don't think you're awful.
		When did you start getting paid?
unidentified		Um...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Let me see.
		So we put out an EP on our own that we pressed up in 96. Where I was like, I'm living off rap.
		Is that what you mean?
		98?
		98. But...
		What kind of jobs did you have before you were doing that?
		I didn't really have jobs.
		I like...
		Just dirtbag?
		Yeah.
		Dirtbag shit.
		Yeah, for a couple years after high school.
		Just some scumbag shit.
		And then the first check came and I was like, there's no turning back now, man.
		You know what I mean?
		This is the greatest shit ever.
		Money from what you want to do.
		I can buy Jordans from rapping?
		What are you talking about?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Blew my fucking mind, man.
		You know, it blew my mind.
		Like, you know, buying a pair of Jordans with that...
		It's unreal.
		But yeah, like, never...
		If I can die never having a square gig, I'll consider it a success.
		Yeah, yeah.
		When did you really say to yourself, okay, I'm a legit professional now.
		Like, this is it.
		There's no turning back.
		I'm 100% now.
		Like, I don't have to worry about this going away.
		I still don't think that way.
		Really?
		It's the fear again.
		It's the fear of, like, the second I think that, it'll go away.
		You know what I mean?
		Things get bigger.
		Our office gets bigger.
		You know, the merge business grows.
		The tours grow, and I'm still...
		The fear is like, yo...
		I'm just lucky.
		I just feel lucky that I'm able to do it.
		So I never want to think that way.
		I guess I have to answer the question if a stranger says, what do you do?
		I have to answer it because it is what I do and I made a lot of money and I'm good.
		My mom's good because of it.
		But I feel like the day that I feel like that maybe I don't know.
		You know, like, the philosophy when a fighter's thinking of retirement, it means they're already retired in their head.
		I'm sort of applying that logic.
		Like, the second I say, yo, this is my thing, you know, I could play for 75,000 kids at a festival in Switzerland, I still think I'm a piece of garbage, you know what I mean?
		And that's sort of, like, it's sort of a driving thing with me, you know what I mean?
		Whereas...
		Historically, rap has just been so ego-driven.
		I'm the best.
		That's the cornerstone of it when you rhyme, but some people carry themselves like that in real life.
		And I don't want to be that, man.
		It's like I'm so...
		I'm so scared of someone ever thinking that humility isn't the most important thing to me.
		And being polite is the most important thing to me.
		And it is.
		And that's not really how people are in this game.
		Not just a rap, just the entertainment business.
		You meet an actor who's a dickhead.
		Like, yo man, you get paid to act.
		That's a blessing.
		We're lucky to be here, right here.
		I'm just blessed to be sitting here with you, man.
		So why would I be anything but appreciative of that?
		And I don't want to think...
		This is what I do.
		You know what I mean?
		I just want to live in...
		Be in the moment.
		Yeah, maybe when it's over, I'll tell you.
		But if you don't tour, if you say you're not going to tour again, do you mean you won't tour internationally?
		Or will you still perform locally?
		What are you going to do?
		Well, I just landed yesterday.
		From?
		So what we did, we started in Baltimore, New York, Philly, Boston, Vermont.
		And like, to sell out your hometown, man, it's like this many years later, you know, and to sell out New York and sell out Boston, it's this thing that where you...
		It's still fucking mind-blowing, man.
	You know what I mean?
	It's still people cheering your name.
	It's mind-blowing.
	I just...
	Maybe it's more of like...
	Sometimes people need to decompress.
	Maybe I just need to decompress for a little bit and I'll completely change my mind.
	Just not tour next year or something.
	And then maybe I'll be ready or something.
	It's just...
	I love walking out on that stage, man.
	I love being out here talking to you.
	I was with Be Real yesterday from Cypress doing his stuff.
	I love all of this.
	Did you do the smoke box?
	I would lose my fucking brain.
	I would lose my fucking brain.
	What if he hotboxed you?
	Would it was just him in there?
	Bro, I don't have to tell you they were smoking heavy.
	I think I walked out zonked just being in the room with them guys.
unidentified		I'm sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was zapped.
		Yeah, he's one of those all-day dudes.
		Yes, sir.
		I can't do that.
		Yes, sir.
		I have too much stuff to do.
		Yeah, sure.
		Of course.
		We all do.
		He's getting shit done, though.
		Yeah, B-Real's one of those rare individuals that can stay stoned.
		I think maybe some decompression.
		I think in Dante's circles of hell, I think airports might be on there.
		Just loathe them.
		I hate the whole process.
		Checking in, like this, that.
		God bless people who have that private jet money, that Elon Musk money.
		You know what I'm saying?
		But that's wasting.
		You're burning off all that cash.
		Sure.
		If you're making $100 and spending $40 on the jet, like, shit, man.
		You spent two.
		Indeed.
		It's just the process, man.
		It's...
		When you were talking about being alone in hotel rooms, I hate the hurry up and wait of the entertainment industry, and that's what it's built around.
		You know what still trips me out?
		When I wake up in the morning, I look at the ceiling, and I don't remember where I am.
		Yo!
unidentified		Ohio?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Philly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		Yes.
		Yes.
		I'm like, yo, what country am I in?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's fucked.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's fucked.
unidentified		It's weird.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's very weird.
		Do you think when you take the time off, are you going to still write?
		I'm in the studio.
		I write five days a week, and I record every Thursday.
		Every Thursday?
		Every Thursday.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So you write five days a week.
		Now, what's your process?
		How do you write?
		It has to be super late at night.
unidentified		Yeah?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I really can't do anything during the day.
		I'm just nocturnal by nature.
		I just sit there with the beat blasting Just sit there.
		Yeah.
		And let it come.
		One bar, one bar, one bar.
		Until it's done.
		So do you have like a raw beat with no lyrics?
		Yeah, yeah.
		So who makes a beat for you first?
		I work with a lot of producers, so they'll send them and when I love something, I'll go, alright, I'm gonna work on this tonight.
		So you get the beat, and then you sit and listen to it, and you start thinking about things you would say over it?
		Yeah, exactly.
		The hardest thing for me is the first line.
		That's the hardest thing to do.
		Authors say the exact same thing.
		Yeah, I'm sure.
		I mean, the first joke's probably hard, because everything goes off of that.
		You know what I mean?
		So that line...
		It's super hard.
		And then I love being in the studio.
		I love it.
		That's where I would be.
		Unfortunately, because when we were kids, records were sold.
		So you could be like, I don't want to tour.
		We're the Beatles.
		We sold fucking 100 million records.
		We don't have to tour.
		They just decided they didn't want to tour in like 67. And they never did again.
		You know what I mean?
		But it's...
		Everything is generated monetarily through touring, merch, you know what I mean?
		So it's like the grind is there.
		I don't like to feel like my hand is forced ever because that's when it starts.
		That's that square world.
		And I never want to feel like I'm obligated to do something.
		And that could be some of my animosity towards touring.
		You know what I mean?
		Like, yo, this is what you do.
		This is what you have to do.
		You know, go out this many days, this, this, this.
		It just fries my brain, man.
		Obviously, all this shit takes a physical toll on you, but it fries my brain where I'm like...
		Just completely zonked.
		Walking through life, I never see anything.
		People are like, how was blah, blah, blah?
		How was the Louvre?
		I'm like, I never saw that shit.
		How was the blah, blah, blah?
		You deal with the same shit, man.
		I never saw shit, man.
		Nothing.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ever.
		No way.
		Hotel room, venue, food.
		Hotel room, van or bus or whatever.
		You know what I mean?
		And repeat.
		It's like rinse, repeat.
		Like I said, I think just the entertainment business in general, there's a perception that That it isn't work because it's not the work they do.
		Yeah.
		Like, try working on a car all day.
		I'm like, try driving 15 hours with someone who smells like balls in a tour van.
		But you'll take it, though, right?
		I mean, you'll take it over a regular job.
		Of course, man.
		When you write, do you write with a pencil and paper?
		Do you write in your head?
		Do you write on a computer?
		How do you write?
		I wrote in a rhyme book, just like a spiral rhyme book for all my adult life.
		And then I started not being able to read my handwriting because I write like a graffiti writer.
		And I'd be like, what's this word?
		So now what I do, I go it over my head.
		When I have enough, when I have enough, I'll type it out.
		And then go over my head, go over my head, type it out.
		Now it's clean and organized, which is not me on any level.
		How long have you been doing it that way?
		Really recent.
		Within a year.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And do you write like on Microsoft Word or something?
		I don't even know what it is.
		It's just like a note thing on the computer.
		It's called like Notepad or something.
unidentified		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Like on a Mac?
		No, a PC. But writing five days a week and recording every Thursday only started when I stopped heavy drinking.
		Everything changed.
		You don't want to be creative when you're hungover.
		You want to sleep.
		I recorded more in the past two years than the previous ten.
		Yeah, man.
		Yeah, I have tons of music recorded.
		You know, maybe it's not all great, but it's recorded, you know, and I'm writing.
		I have clarity, you know, on a lot of levels.
		Is there any window that you could see opening up where you could make money from the actual music itself?
		Because this is, I mean, the last couple of decades threw the music business on its head, but there's streaming services now, and Jamie was just talking about the thing that Steven Tyler was talking about.
		It's called...
unidentified		Music Modernization Act.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a thing where they're trying to You have these streaming companies.
		Correct.
		Because they're giving you a pittance.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, Pandora, there was a Pandora that just sold for billions of dollars.
		And it's like, what do you do that you're worth billions of dollars?
		What you do, you distribute other people's art.
		Right.
		You don't really have anything.
		And don't pay them.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't pay them.
		You make all the money.
		To say pennies on the dollar wouldn't be enough.
		I'm not exaggerating.
		It's less than that.
		It's not even that.
		No.
		I'm not sure if either one of you guys saw the tweet from Crosby, Stills& Nash.
		I didn't see it.
		It was like a breakdown of what he got paid from, you know, how huge those records were or something.
		It was like...
		$55 or something for like 200 million streams.
		And then Peter Frampton responded to him with another screenshot.
		It's like, here's mine.
		And I have one of the biggest records ever.
		Peter Frampton comes a lot.
		And they were going back and forth.
		And people in the industry were retweeting it.
		Because, I mean, these are guys who are A, older and B, richer than we can ever imagine.
		And it's important for people like them to speak up.
		It is.
		I repeat, the streamers don't pay us for the damned music that we made.
		In all caps, don't pay us.
		This is David Crosby.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		He's got a few tweets that are similar.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's one with the actual numbers.
		Yeah, I mean...
		It's stunning, and I don't understand how they're getting away with it.
		I don't either.
		I don't either.
		And I'm not powerful enough to do that.
		That's why dudes like him...
		At one point, Taylor Swift pulled all her shit, and I was like, that's great, because she's huge.
		That's an important statement.
		You know what I mean?
		It's like, if you guys weren't getting paid...
		Correctly from a streaming service for your stand-up and someone like Eddie Murphy spoke up.
		That's important.
		A fucking hack in Schenectady tweeting about it's not going to help you.
		Well, I won't let them put my podcast on.
		And they've been trying to do it for years.
		And I'm saying, no.
		What do I get out of it?
		Right, of course.
		Well, it's just another way for people to get your...
		There's a lot of people that are listening.
		There's people that are already listening.
		I don't want to.
		That shit happens to me.
		Will you do this?
		No.
		And they're blown away that you say no.
		And again, that's why I think you're punk rock, whether you do or not.
		You just say, fuck you.
		Well, I just understand what they're doing.
		They're thieves.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And they want to put ads on it.
		And the most recent thing is that they'll give you some money, but like...
		Not compared to what you're making.
		What are you going to do?
		All you have is other people's work.
		Other than that, you just have a station.
		I feel bad for people.
		You've built your own everything.
		You're your own entity.
		I've done the same thing on a smaller level.
		We're outliers, bro.
		Like, some people really need that shit.
		You know what I mean?
		Well, they get stuck in the system, and then even worse, they become a part of some sort of a network where they have a bunch of executives telling them what they can and can't do.
		Of course, those dudes who sign those major label deals that are, you know, in the videos with the jewelry and shit.
		Like, bro, none of that shit real.
		It's either fake, it's rented, those cars are rented.
unidentified		Yeah, I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's dudes still living in the projects and they're in those videos with Lambos.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know?
		It's like perceptions become reality through social media.
		So people think like...
		You know, you have a rented car and rented jewelry on that you're worth this.
		And I'm like, yo, you don't know the fuckery that that label offered them.
		He's got a 360 deal.
		They're taking his merch.
		They're taking this.
		That's what's crazy, that they take your merch and your ticket sales.
		Yes, that's those 360. The music company that doesn't have anything to do with you performing, they take a piece of you performing.
		Yes.
		Yes.
		And these things that, like, things are offered to me, and I'm like, yo, man, I spent my entire life building this, and you want a piece of the pie that I baked for no reason.
		I'll share it with anybody, but what's the reason for it?
		Well, you gotta be offering something.
		Bring something to the table.
		They're not offering you anything.
		No, they're not bringing anything to the table.
unidentified		What are they saying?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That we can make you bigger?
		We'll get you on the radio, which nobody listens to anymore?
		What are they saying?
		Right.
		Who listens to the radio?
		Not me.
		Is there a big radio station these days that anybody listens to?
		Not that I'm aware of.
		I mean, I know they still exist.
		Like, I know Hot 97 is still in New York, but I don't know if anyone listens to it.
		But where do kids find out about music now?
		It's got to be through the internet.
		Yeah, the interwebs.
		I asked a kid, a young barber was cutting me.
		And he was like, what are you doing?
		You're a musician?
		You know, he casually got into it.
		I was just making conversation.
		I was like, how do you listen to music?
		He was like, Spotify, Apple Music, and SoundCloud.
		And I was like, okay, I don't use any of the three of them.
		But it's good to know.
		You know what I mean?
		It's like...
		Like I listened, I have your podcast on like a podcast app on my phone, you know what I mean?
		And I'm assuming that's what people do.
		Yeah.
		It's a little bit easier to track, I suppose.
		But again, it's like the Peter Frampton and David Crosby thing.
		Like I said, it was some number that's outlandish, like 200 million streams or something.
		50 bucks.
		Yeah, like how is that legal?
		Criminals.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How is it legal?
		It shouldn't be.
		They rigged the system.
		They did.
		They have to figure out a way to quantify it the same way record sales would have been, like when we went to the fucking store, when we went to Tower Records or the Mom and Pop store or whatever.
unidentified		Here it goes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		Recent numbers per screen.
		Napster, Was Rhapsody, 0.019.
		Tidal, 0.0125.
unidentified		Apple Music.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, get your song played a million times and get less than five dollars.
unidentified		Seems fair.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's it.
unidentified		That's what he said.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's fucking insane.
		A million streams, you get less than five clams, man.
		That is insane.
unidentified		That's such a small number.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's so small.
		YouTube, 0.00069.
		What is that?
unidentified		What is that?
unidentified		That's fucking insane.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		160, 900,000th, 100th, that's a hard word to say, 100,000th.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		One hundred thousandths of a dollar.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Can you even quantify that as money at that point?
		But what does anyone do when they're faced with this sort of information?
		Is anything going to change?
		And if it does change, what are they going to do?
		Double it?
		That's my worry.
		That's my worry that it's being brought to people's attention and it might go to, you know, the big government might get involved.
		How much is that going to shift?
		Right.
		Well, it seems like the artists can't pull their music.
		The music is owned by the record companies.
		The record companies are going to play it, and they're not going to pay them the same they would pay someone who was buying it.
		Right.
		I know Taylor Swift pulled her shit for a minute on some Making a Stance, but however it was rectified, she put it back up.
unidentified		They gave her money.
unidentified		Probably.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure they gave her money.
		They give people money.
		They're giving people money for podcasts, too.
		They give you money for exclusive use of it for a couple days or something like that.
		For two days.
		Yeah, something along those lines.
		Or they want to put their own ads on it, something along those lines.
		People can get your podcast.
		You don't need to do that.
		No, man.
		You're just letting someone make some money off you for no reason.
		Absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		And what we do, it's like, we control our shit.
		Why would we give that up?
		Yeah.
		Tell me why I would give up control of my shit to you.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can't.
		Right.
		There's no logical explanation unless we're talking fucking money.
		Do you own all your music?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		See, that's nice.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's nice.
		And there's not a lot of people that can say that.
		No, because, you know, when you sign with a major, they own your masters, man.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So it's like, you can't do it.
		You know, if I want to...
		You know, an album of mine that came out in 2010, say in 2020, I want to do a...
		10th anniversary edition on blue vinyl and all that kind of cool shit.
		I can.
		I don't have to ask anybody.
		You know what I mean?
		It's like direct-to-consumer shit is basically what I'm doing.
		It's how my merch companies run.
		I try to do that as much as possible because that DIY aesthetic is important to me.
		You know what I mean?
		We grew up with people and they seemed untouchable.
		Rockstar shit.
		Superheroes.
		You know what I mean?
		And I would like to sort of bridge that gap where it's like, no, come up and say what's up, man.
		You know what I mean?
		Let's talk.
		How are you?
		What's your name?
		Do you still sell actual physical CDs anymore?
		Yeah, we do.
		Because there's a niche audience, man.
		How many people buy them?
unidentified		Is that like...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, I press vinyl, I press tapes before, but...
unidentified		Tapes?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just to be...
		Just to be cute?
		Yeah, I like to be cute, Joseph.
		Nah, yeah.
		Tapes, vinyl, CDs.
		Vinyl sells the most.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, people love vinyl these days, right?
		Yeah, it's a big, big comeback.
		CDs still?
		They're the most...
		Honestly, right now, today, tapes are more popular than CDs.
unidentified		Whoa!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's just like a nostalgia thing and it'll probably go away.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But we discussed not even pressing them.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's how much...
		I did because I'm old school, but we discussed not doing it.
		But vinyl's still coming in strong.
		Yeah.
		Do you buy into the sound difference?
		I do.
unidentified		Yeah?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		But I buy into it with...
		First, you have to start at the source.
		If it's recorded amazingly, if it sounds shitty, it's going to sound shitty.
		I'd rather listen to the Beatles on vinyl.
		I'd rather listen to Thin Lizzy on vinyl, metal, stuff like that.
		I mean, a lot of hip-hop shit.
		Kids have a mic and a laptop.
		In the bedroom.
		That's the recording studio.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's not gonna make any fucking difference.
		It's gonna be what it is.
		You know what I mean?
		But bands who care, it's warmer.
		Like if I listen to Stevie Wonder records, they sound warmer.
unidentified		Warmer.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that expression before.
		Yeah.
		I don't know really how to articulate it, but in my head I know what it means.
		Just the bass lines and drums, everything sounds warm to me.
		Can they replicate that?
		Is it possible?
		Some people can.
		With electronics?
		To a degree, you still need to get analog to a degree.
		You know what I mean?
		There's still a few studios in the country that do shit on reel-to-reel.
		Because that sound, you can't have it fully replicated.
		You can get close, but you need to go to reel-to-reel to really get that sound that we loved.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Now, what about like Apple Music and people buying things on iTunes, things like that?
		People still do that, right?
		Yeah, but that's dropping too.
		Mostly streaming now?
		It's so stream dominated, you know, because even when people were doing that, like buying albums on iTunes, buying albums digitally on Amazon or whatever someone's preference is, It was sweet.
		It was good.
		Good money, all of that.
		And then the streaming shit.
		Because logically, if you're a casual music fan and you pay $10 a month for Spotify for every album that's ever been recorded, it's like, can you really blame the fan?
		You know what I mean?
		And their ways of ingesting music are so different.
		I loved opening the vinyl.
		I loved reading the thank yous.
		I love the smell of the fucking cassette tape.
		It was an experience going to the store, being on the bus with the headphones on the first time you hear it.
		I can tell you where I was when I bought Nas-O-Matic.
		I can tell you all that.
		That's debt.
		The experience, it's, you know, boom, bong, now I have the album.
		You do a comedy, I got the new Joe Rogan album.
		Right.
		Two seconds with a click.
		That's a weird thing to me.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
		I guess it's not weird to them.
		Remember those stores you would go to where there was little stations where you could press a button to listen?
unidentified		And listen, of course.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A little preview of all these different, and people would just stand there all day?
		All day.
		Listening to music?
		All day.
		That's the only way you can get it?
		And if they didn't have them, you were buying shit and guessing.
unidentified		You know how many bad shit I bought?
unidentified		Just look at a cool album cover and go, let's give it a chance.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I bought metal albums with a badass cover and the band was just terrible.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
unidentified		Did you see Sugar Man?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		How crazy is that movie?
		Fucking crazy.
		I don't know what's crazy.
		The story or that he got big in Africa.
		Crazy.
		It's just some bad shit crazy.
		That movie made me cry.
		Me too.
		Bad shit crazy.
		But just how insane that this guy went on to become like a laborer for a construction company, had no idea that he was a superstar in Africa.
		Insane.
		And then goes there as an older man to a sold out stadium.
		Yeah.
		And they all know the words.
		It's beautiful, man.
		That is one of the craziest documentaries of all time.
		I agree.
		Searching for Sugar Man.
		If you haven't seen it, folks, you gotta see it.
		It's brilliant.
		Well done.
		Yeah, and it's a different era, too.
		You know that guy gave all his money away?
		I do.
		He's the real fucking deal.
		No fucking joke, man.
		Yeah.
		I mean, he still lives like he lived when he was a poor construction worker.
		Yep.
unidentified		Whoa.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Elevated way of thinking, man.
		Yeah, I think he just got so used to being in that space for so long.
		And his fucking music is good, man.
		It's really good.
		It's really good.
		I think sometimes, man, like when that's brought on you, you're still more comfortable in that other way.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, some people don't want to...
		They're not comfortable embracing that.
		Whether it's wealth or fame or a mixture of both.
		I just think he was like, I'm good.
		I'm content.
		And there's people with billions that aren't content.
		There's nothing more important than being good with yourself.
		And he seems good with himself.
		Yeah, that is one of the scarier things, is someone who's insanely successful but never satisfied.
		I think a lot of people are like that.
		It's one of the things that I was saying about Trump.
		Like, if you are 70 years old and you have billions of dollars, why are you still working?
		Yes.
		Do you think something's going to change and you're going to live forever?
		Right.
		Do you have no perception that you literally are on the last finger full of grains in your hourglass?
		That's all you got left.
		And you're not spending it on a yacht in Acapulco, getting your dick sucked to Big Pimpin' in the background?
		Yeah, like what's the...
		What's the mechanism in his head that's driving this?
		I don't get it.
		I think about like that about Warren Buffet.
		Yeah, right.
		What keeps you going?
		He's like 409 years old.
		I don't even know how much money.
		Well, he's a real weird one because he still lives in fucking the middle of nowhere.
		Yeah, he's a strange bird.
		In a regular house.
		Yeah, and his suits always look like they were just pulled off the rack at Yeah.
		And weren't tailored.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He goes to Terrence Crawford fights, though.
		Always.
		He's always there.
		He was hanging out with Floyd one night.
		It was funny.
		Yeah.
unidentified		He reps Nebraska.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, hard.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's an interesting guy.
		Super interesting.
		Yeah.
unidentified		But listen, man, we just did three hours, believe it or not.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for having me, my friend.
		My pleasure, brother.
		I'm glad we finally got a chance to do this.
unidentified		Me too, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It means a lot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I've been a big fan for a very long time.
unidentified		Me too, man.
unidentified		So thank you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Tell people how they can find you on Twitter, Instagram, BoxcutterPazzy on Instagram.
		What is Twitter?
		It's Vinny underscore Paz.
		And website?
		JMTStore.com.
		Jedi Mind Tricks.
		Everything's on there.
		Thank you, brother.
unidentified		It was awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, Joe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, man.
unidentified		See ya!

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