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May 17, 2018 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:52:32
Joe Rogan Experience #1117 - Tim Kennedy
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Main voices
j
joe rogan
57:08
t
tim kennedy
01:51:11
Appearances
Clips
d
doug stanhope
00:06
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
I don't know if I can handle that.
joe rogan
What?
The clock's wrong?
tim kennedy
I mean, just subtly.
joe rogan
Are we live?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
One of them's wrong.
Which one is it?
I think they're both wrong.
That says 12-11.
One says 12-15.
12-13 on my phone.
12-13.
Yeah, so they're both wrong.
This one says 12-14.
That one says 12-11.
tim kennedy
I want to strap C4 to this, and this one I want to spike against the wall.
Yeah, that's what I want to do.
joe rogan
Are you OCD with time or with everything?
tim kennedy
With everything.
joe rogan
Yeah?
tim kennedy
Yeah, like my reloading room is disgustingly perfect, and if I load the dishwasher, all the forks have to be symmetrical on one side, and the spoons have to be in the other, and all the mugs, the tall ones, have to be on one side, and then I'm like, yeah.
joe rogan
What's that all about?
tim kennedy
I don't know.
I think it came back to, um...
joe rogan
Pull the sucker up to your face.
tim kennedy
When everything's the same and something's not the same, it's easiest to see that way.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
Right?
So, like, counterfeiting.
Like, if you're buying a chick in a 13-year-old girl in Tijuana and you're going to want to get the guy for counterfeit money and you want to get him for human trafficking...
And he starts handing you crappy bills.
The easiest way to spot the bills is to be able to see, have all of your proper bills all in the right order so the one that's fake is going to stick out.
And they're like, oh man.
joe rogan
Only you would use that example when you're going to Tijuana and someone's trafficking human slavery.
tim kennedy
That's a good example.
joe rogan
With counterfeit money.
It is a good example.
tim kennedy
And if you have a 13-year-old girl with a bunch of 18-year-old girls, you can see the 13-year-old get a little bit easier.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
So it applies to everything.
You know, if you have like a bunch of, if you reload, and you have a bunch of grain bullets and you're going to measure and then lot them all.5 separation in grain, so it's like 175, 175.5, 176, 174.5, and so on.
When you stack them all together, the easiest way to group them instead of measuring every single one is to look at them and just put the ones that are similarly sized all together, smallest to largest, and then you can weigh them in kind of batches.
joe rogan
Have you always been like this?
tim kennedy
I think so.
joe rogan
With everything?
tim kennedy
Yeah, mostly.
joe rogan
What about when you were fighting, your training, did you map out everything to the rep, to the detail, training notes?
tim kennedy
Greg, if you watch some of our fights, and you were cage-side for almost all of mine in the UFC, you'd hear Greg be like...
Okay, so that went according to plan, or, alright, so let's go ahead and change things up a little bit, because you just got your ass kicked, you know?
So then we'd have to adjust.
joe rogan
He's one of the more interesting corner guys.
tim kennedy
He's so much fun.
joe rogan
Yeah, he enjoys it, and he seems to want you to enjoy it, too.
He's like, alright, that went amazing!
You know, he's like, come on, let's get some deep breaths.
You're doing fantastic.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
In between rounds with Michael Bisping, it was a five-round fight.
He comes in and tells me a joke.
He told me like a knock-knock joke, and then why a chicken cross the road joke.
And I was sitting there, and there's a picture of me quizzically looking at him.
I'm like, I'm going to kill you after this.
You know, like, what are you doing?
And he just wanted me to relax.
He just wanted me to breathe.
Because I was doing everything I was supposed to be doing.
And I just needed to, you know...
joe rogan
He just thought you were too tense?
tim kennedy
Yeah, apparently.
joe rogan
Huh.
tim kennedy
What a dick.
Playing mind games in the middle of a fight.
joe rogan
Well, you have one minute to figure out what to do and what to say to a guy who just was throwing bombs for five minutes.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Some people have a little more.
Do you know that I discussed that yesterday with Big John?
I had Big John on the podcast yesterday.
We fucked up and he forgot to talk about it during the podcast, but after the podcast, he explained what happened.
He says that it was the UFC cut man's fault.
Because he left a giant glob of Vaseline on Yoel's eye.
He didn't want to touch it because he felt like if he touched it could open the cut up again.
He called the...
I guess it was the guy's name, Tate?
He tried to call and get the guy to come back in.
The guy wouldn't come back in.
So the corner man tried to come in.
He said no.
He's like, you gotta bring the cut man back.
And then he wound up doing it by himself.
tim kennedy
It was the perfect storm.
joe rogan
He said he fucked up.
He said Yoel was definitely playing it off.
And he said, but if he had to do it differently, he would have, A, made Yoel stand up.
And B, he would have made sure that fucking cut man didn't leave the cage with that big glob of ass.
tim kennedy
I was just talking crap.
I wasn't actually complaining.
joe rogan
It's a good thing to talk crap about.
tim kennedy
Yeah, it was...
joe rogan
But that was a giant issue.
unidentified
It was.
joe rogan
It was a 30-second issue for a guy who was really wobbled at the end of the second round.
tim kennedy
Yeah, and my route to the title.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was a big deal.
tim kennedy
It was a bummer, but it was the perfect storm.
And now he's fighting for the title, so hopefully he represents Cuba well.
joe rogan
He's a bad motherfucker.
tim kennedy
Yeah, he's a freak.
joe rogan
Yeah, he really is, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Specimen.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, when...
There's so much going on there.
There's the years of training in that crazy Cuba Olympic program.
There's phenomenal genetics.
There's experience in competing.
There's so much going on there with that guy.
tim kennedy
Layers and layers and layers of the highest level of competition.
Mixed in with a life that I think has been very complimentary to a mindset of an athlete.
He has pretty much been shaped most of his life to be a highest level athlete.
Tricky part is, man, Whitaker's good.
joe rogan
Whitaker's very good.
He's very good and very young.
And Whitaker, you've got to remember, had his knee blown out in the first round.
He got his knee hyperextended, tore his MCL pretty badly in the first round and still was able to stuff takedowns on arguably the best wrestler who's ever fought in MMA. Pretty impressive shit.
That's a great fight.
That's a couple weeks from now.
tim kennedy
Jacare and what's-his-face just fought?
unidentified
Calvin.
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're so close to the division, you're paying attention to it, and you're just recently retired.
Do you still get itchy?
tim kennedy
Have a crazy competition bug, but not to fight.
I'm going to do a bunch of jiu-jitsu this year.
I'm competing in long gun, marksman stuff, three gun, heavy steel stuff.
joe rogan
What is a long gun?
Is that like long range shooting?
tim kennedy
Yeah, really long range.
So there's a bunch of different styles of competitive shooting.
There's guys that run around and shoot around barricades very quickly.
And then there's kind of the slow aim fire NRA style where you're going standing offhand or weird shooting positions.
And then there's it doesn't matter.
It just matters how far you can shoot.
That's it.
joe rogan
Yeah, I have a buddy who's into that.
He's into banging steel like a mile away or whatever the fuck it is.
tim kennedy
Yeah, that's it.
joe rogan
Crazy ballistic calculations and literally calculating the curve of the earth.
tim kennedy
Yeah, yeah.
Barometric pressure, I mean the temperature of your ammo to a degree plays a factor.
Every imaginable, measurable thing plays a factor in how the bullet is going to fly.
joe rogan
It's a real touchy subject in hunting because there's a lot of people that are getting into that with really long range shots on animals and the question about whether or not it's ethical and who's it ethical for.
tim kennedy
I don't know where I stand on that.
I bounce between rifle hunting and bow hunting.
As a kid, the first time that I took a shot, I wasn't 100% positive the animal wouldn't just fall over.
I mean, my dad scuffed me up, you know?
And I was like, 11?
So...
There has since then been a, the preponderance of responsibility has always been on the hunter to, without question, know the animal is going to fall right then, right there.
We're not stocking it for two days.
You know, I'm not following a blood trail for nine hours to see an animal hyperventilating.
Now the meat's not even good.
Huge adrenaline spike.
You know, it's like right there.
That's your meat, and you're going to go get it.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
That's best case scenario, but even then, animals jump the string.
tim kennedy
Yeah, and how do you do that when you're shooting something that the bullet flight is going to be up for six seconds?
joe rogan
Right.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Is it really that long?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
How long is it, like, if you're shooting, say, a thousand yards?
tim kennedy
Oh, a thousand?
Three.
joe rogan
Three seconds?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's a long time.
tim kennedy
That is a long time.
joe rogan
Animals can take a couple steps in three seconds.
tim kennedy
Yeah, the heart's this big, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Size of our two fists, and that's not a lot of margin of error.
The wind changing one mile an hour.
One mile an hour at a thousand yards could make you miss that heart.
joe rogan
Wow.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's one of those weird sort of things where people are getting into it because there's a bragging rights aspect of it.
You know, you shot this elk at 800 yards, and most people go, 800 yards?
You tell somebody you shot some of the 200 yards, they go, oh, it's a good shot, it's reasonable, ethical.
You know, if you have your crosshairs on an animal's vitals at 200 yards, it's basically a dead animal.
tim kennedy
Absolutely.
joe rogan
But you get to like 600, 700, you're like, ooh.
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
That's a tiny little spot you're aiming at.
tim kennedy
Shit gets wiggly.
I think you're a conservationist.
I think I'm a conservationist.
We're talking in the tens of millions of dollars go into conservation from hunters every single day from hunting.
The U.S. wildlife...
Department of Wildlife, they don't know how they're going to be paying for the protection of habitats without hunting permits because the number of people that are hunting are shrinking.
So there's a huge influx and question about how moral are different styles of hunting?
What are the best?
And how are we going to make sure that we protect these animals and protect their habitats?
All the while, you know, I was telling you about that elk I shot at the beginning of the year.
And I had a clean, broadside shot at 600 meters.
And I was like, I'm shooting a.308.
Totally super doable.
You know, I can do that almost in my sleep on my home range.
But I'm shooting an animal.
And I was like, no, let me just walk this guy down another ridge.
So move upwind, come back down, and my next shot was at like.320.
You know, one shot and he sits down.
So, I think the responsibility always, in all things, should fall on the individual.
But now it's just getting all the individuals to actually have responsibility.
joe rogan
That's where it gets really stupid.
There's just people that...
They're not good people.
They weren't raised well.
tim kennedy
Are people good?
joe rogan
Some people.
In moments.
What do you mean when you say that?
tim kennedy
My mom and I, we argue about this a lot.
She thinks people are inherently good.
And I'm like...
joe rogan
You've seen so much of the bad.
tim kennedy
Yeah, obviously I'm going to have a calloused, I'm not going to have the most objective perspective.
But I want to think people are good, but I think hunters in general, let's just use that because that's what we're talking about right now, of 100 hunters...
What percentage are going to do the right thing?
Are going to do the moral thing, the ethical thing, the thing that's the best interest for the animal, for conservation, for nature, out of 100?
You know, if they're on a hunt.
joe rogan
I would say for sure the majority.
Okay.
And now it gets down to, you know, guesswork as to what the numbers are.
tim kennedy
Like 60%?
joe rogan
I'd say more.
I like that.
I like to think it's in the 70s or 80s.
I wish it was 100. For sure.
You know?
And I wish anything other than that was just a mistake.
You know?
But...
There's going to be people that poach.
There's going to be people that cross property boundaries when they know they're not supposed to.
There's going to be people that shoot an animal when the season opens tomorrow morning and they get there a day early and they see an animal and they just say, fuck it, I'm just going to shoot it and hang it and say I shot it the next day.
There's like gray area stuff.
You know, you're definitely doing something illegal, but it's still hunting.
You still have a tag.
You know, and it's just people bending the rules.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then there's people that just, you know, they'll shoot two, three animals, and they're only supposed to shoot one.
They'll hide the meat.
Yeah.
There's always going to be people like that.
unidentified
Assholes.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Seriously.
Selfish.
Yeah.
There's always going to be people like that, unfortunately.
And the thing about hunting is it's so controversial.
In a world where 95 to 97, depending on who you ask, percent of the people eat meat, it's still very controversial to go out and kill it yourself.
tim kennedy
It's weird.
I still can't understand this.
joe rogan
It's very weird.
tim kennedy
I know.
In addition to people being maybe moral or immoral or most are good or most are bad, There's the contradiction of people not even using their brains, you know?
I had the best tacos I've maybe ever had in my life last week.
Those are after getting waterboarded, right?
Yep, yep.
Maybe they tasted extra sweet.
But I had a bunch of friends over.
We had some wine from...
Right, right next door to where my parents, like where I grew up, and the animal, the elk that we were cooking.
I mean, I saw it for a day as I walked this thing down.
I mean, the most beautiful, majestic creature.
Like I said, I was 600, moved into just under three, or right at three, and...
So I got to see it in life.
I got to see it at its death.
I got to see after death.
I have the whole entire trophy, just like you.
But I have two freezers.
I garnered almost 600 cumulative pounds from the hide, the head, and the meat to shy of 400 pounds of meat off that thing.
I still have two freezers full of meat.
You know?
joe rogan
It's a big animal.
It's a big animal!
Delicious big animal.
tim kennedy
It's so good.
joe rogan
It's so good.
It's the best for you, too.
It just feels different when you eat it.
tim kennedy
It's so good in your mouth.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
It's the best for you in your mouth.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's the best for your body, too.
I feel like it charges me up.
tim kennedy
I want to fight Velociraptors after...
I was like...
I mean, I want to go to Colombia, to Medellin, where the good stuff is.
Steal some of the good Coke, like the old Pablo Escobar style Coke, and then bring that back to wherever I am.
And I think that's the equivalent of what good elk tastes like in your mouth.
joe rogan
I've never done good coke or bad coke.
tim kennedy
Well, I've never done any coke, but judging from the amount of money that Pablo Escobar made and the way that people talked about it and how rich Medin still is, I think it's pretty good stuff.
joe rogan
There's definitely a high demand.
Yeah.
The contradiction would be like people who are animal rights lovers.
It would be like you just talked about this majestic animal that you watched and you admired and then you shot it and killed it.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
God, it's beautiful.
Yeah, I still love it.
I love every single ounce of it.
joe rogan
I know, and I agree with you, but for people that are, you know, maybe animal rights activists or vegans...
tim kennedy
How many of them have ever been to...
Not that I'm dogging on the cattle industry, because I'm not.
I think they try to do the best that they can with what they have to produce enough food to feed a huge, ever-growing population.
I mean, this is a hard thing.
You've been to one of those farms?
joe rogan
I have.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
I've been to good ones and I've been to bad ones.
tim kennedy
I know how my animal died.
And it died fast, peacefully, right where it loved being.
And never felt anything, never saw anything.
It just crumbled.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's also the balance of life, too.
Unless you want to bring wolves and more mountain lions into Texas and to wherever you're hunting.
tim kennedy
They tried that.
That's not working.
joe rogan
It's not working.
tim kennedy
No, they brought the wolves, and now they're looking to hunters like me to come in to balance the wolves because the wolves...
Are decimating the herds to a degree that they've never seen ever because there's no balance.
There's nothing to balance the wolves.
unidentified
Right.
tim kennedy
So what was the amount of available food resources, now the wolves are just killing everything.
So even Yellowstone, they're like, can we bring in some pro hunters to try and balance this?
joe rogan
They knocked down the herd in Yellowstone by 90% at one point.
90%.
Just from the wolves they brought in the 90s.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Okay, we lost the wolves from the 60s to the 80s.
So let's bring back some wolves in the 90s and think that we can balance things.
And while it paid a positive effect for about 10 years, then 2010 rolls around.
They're like, wait, wait a second.
They're killing entire herds.
We might lose all indigenous elk here.
If we don't do something immediately.
So now they're bringing in guys like me to dart them and try and relocate them and bring cows, whatever.
joe rogan
Well, the whole idea behind it was so crazy.
They went and got these giant Canadian gray wolves and brought them over here into a place where the animals had...
They had no knowledge of wolves.
They had wiped out the wolf population in the 1800s.
tim kennedy
The size of the wolf is bigger than what was originally here.
So naturally, the amount of calories that that wolf needed was greater.
And with 100 years of lack of evolution for the animals that were there to know what to do, it was just fish in a barrel for these wolves.
joe rogan
They're adapting, though.
They're adapting.
unidentified
Hopefully.
joe rogan
They're adapting quick, but they're still getting jacked.
Part of the problem is people say, well, they're killing the weak animals.
But they're not.
tim kennedy
They're killing everything.
joe rogan
Because the weak ones go down into the farmlands.
You're getting the cows and the calves, the smaller elk, the female elk, and the babies.
They're moving into farmlands, and the big males, when they're not rutting, they stay up in the mountains.
And they usually form these bachelor herds.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
When they're not rutting.
And when this is happening, that's where the wolves are.
So the wolves are killing...
I mean, I have friends that live in Idaho and friends that live in Montana, and they're like, it's bad.
There's a lot of fucking wolves killing giant elk.
tim kennedy
I've been failing in communicating.
So right now we agree with each other and we're, you know, almost echoing the same sediments.
So that person that doesn't agree with us, that vegetarian, vegan, a conservationist that looks at us like, no, no, you guys are hunters.
You can't be conservationists.
Where does the conversation start?
Where's the middle ground where you can find...
One, where an opportunity to build rapport and to have a conversation, to have a discussion, to have maybe even a debate where you can intellectually talk through your different perspectives.
I've been failing at this miserably of late, and I've been getting a lot of...
It's weird when my social media...
I think I have a lot of conservative, military, pro-Second Amendment types that follow me.
When that whole entire base is mad at me...
Which is weird.
And then on the other side, the far left progressive side is looking at me and being like, oh, we hate you too.
So I'm like, I have now pissed off 95% of people on social media because I'm trying to find middle ground so we can talk.
joe rogan
Have you pissed off the conservatives?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Have you done that?
tim kennedy
Lance Armstrong and I were...
Talking about gun control after the Parkland shooting in Florida.
And he asked me, do you think gun control is a solution?
And I said, absolutely.
I think gun control can be a massive solution.
Verbatim.
That's exactly what I said.
Now, to me, gun control, those are words.
Words like well-regulated militia, the words in the Constitution.
That's almost synonymous to me.
Gun laws, also a form of gun control, just like a well-regulated militia.
I think that having good, safe gun laws save lives.
I don't want to have a felon, an MS-13 guy, an illegal immigrant, somebody that's been dishonorably discharged from the military, to get their hands on a gun.
We have those laws.
Those are forms of gun control, in my opinion.
But the conservatives' second amendment, if you use the words gun control, like I was immediately called a Benedict Arnold, I'm a traitor, I was a duff.
I don't even know what a duff is.
That was a reoccurring one.
I think it was the guy from Roger Rabbit, the guy that would hunt around with the gun, but he didn't know how to use the gun because he always missed Roger Rabbit.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Do you mean Bugs Bunny?
tim kennedy
Yeah, yeah, Bugs Bunny.
joe rogan
So Elmer Fudd.
tim kennedy
Yeah, a Fudd.
That's what they called me, a Fudd.
Hundreds of people.
And I'm trying to have a conversation with Lance Armstrong, a guy that had never shot a gun at the time, that...
Was against private citizens really owning guns.
And he couldn't be more for gun control, but I wanted just to talk to him.
And so I had no problem using his vernacular, using the words that he's comfortable with, like gun control.
Even though, to me, that's just gun laws, that's well-regulated militia.
I mean, I'm a huge Second Amendment proponent.
I don't think anybody has ever questioned that until this moment.
joe rogan
Well, Hawk, if they just pay attention to you for five minutes, all they have to do is just go to your social media and go, this is not an anti-gun guy.
No.
It's a guy who's on the range.
How many days a week?
tim kennedy
Six?
Five?
unidentified
Yeah.
Come on.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Like, I'm mad that I'm here with you.
joe rogan
That you're not on the range.
tim kennedy
Because I'm not on the range, you know?
But I'm sorry.
I'll make it up tomorrow.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're a gun nut.
tim kennedy
Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan
For sure.
tim kennedy
I mean, it's an occupational thing.
joe rogan
Yes.
tim kennedy
Like, I have no choice.
This is what I do now.
joe rogan
If you want to be excellent at your job, you must be a gun nut.
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Well, in that conversation, I... Disavowed apparently my my huge group of Second Amendment loving people.
joe rogan
I have a theory on that I think there's a lot of people are just looking get pissed off and if you say any word that they Decide is a hot-button word like gun control.
They don't care if you've thought it out you have a rational perspective on what you consider gun control like there was a Statement that was released by a group of hunters It was hunters for gun control, and they had a bunch of reasonable reasons why people shouldn't have a firearm that could get a firearm currently.
And it all made sense.
But the response to that, the backlash of it, it's not debate.
It's like people on that side, the pro-Second Amendment side, they are so terrified of any new regulation.
And they think that you have to hold your ground because any slipping backwards is going to eventually lead to someone taking your guns away.
tim kennedy
I mean, I do understand the death by a thousand cuts.
You know, I think that has always been the perspective.
You know, if you look at...
It's not like Adolf Hitler said, okay, we're going to kill all the blacks and all the Jews overnight.
That's not what happened, right?
It was over the course of seven, eight years where he just very slowly, incrementally changed laws.
Okay, they're not allowed to shop here.
Okay, they're not allowed to go here.
Okay, now we're going to move them all into the same area.
And very slowly...
Not slowly, in a matter of five, six, seven years, he started a genocide of an entire ethnicity.
And that's the fear.
It's, okay, it's going to be incremental.
And at some point, we're going to turn around and look and be like, look at all of this freedom that we've lost.
I think it's the same, you know, with during, right after 9-11, when George Bush, you know, the Freedom Act, or the Patriot Act, the Patriot Act, you know, like, that was one of the largest losses of...
Privacy that Americans have ever experienced.
But we're fearful.
We're scared.
I love dangerous freedom.
But overnight, we lost a ton of that.
Not incrementally, just overnight.
But the most efficient way is to take it bit by bit by bit.
So I get that.
But for Christ's sakes, man, you can't find somebody that's more of a proponent of the Second Amendment than me, except apparently on that day when I pissed off.
So I'm trying to figure out how to have a conversation.
I can't do it.
joe rogan
I don't think that they are any more of a Second Amendment proponent than you are.
I just think they're ideologically so rigid in this idea that you can't change gun laws at all.
I mean, if you think that someone who's on antipsychotic medication, who has bouts of manic schizophrenia, you think that person should be allowed to have guns when they hear voices that aren't real, they see things that aren't really there.
tim kennedy
They've been reported to the FBI a handful of times, the sheriff knows about them, the principal knows about them.
joe rogan
Well, obviously the problem with that is someone can decide to report Tim Kennedy.
They can make up some story.
Look, Tim Kennedy's been acting crazy.
Tim Kennedy's doing these things.
He's gonna kill my family.
Tim Kennedy's doing this.
Tim Kennedy's doing...
If someone just decides to actively target you in that way, they can sort of frame you as some sort of a crazy person and then use that as an excuse to go after your guns.
I mean, this is what people are terrified of.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
And that is possible.
tim kennedy
It is.
And there's no due process on the backside.
Okay, so if somebody was wrongfully put on a list or not to be allowed to buy a gun, how do you get off that list?
joe rogan
Right.
How do you?
tim kennedy
I don't know.
joe rogan
How do you?
tim kennedy
I mean, as a guy that spends quite a bit of time, what I think hopefully protecting gun laws and protecting gun ownership, I don't even know how to get off that list.
joe rogan
No.
tim kennedy
That's scary?
joe rogan
You probably don't.
You probably don't get off of it.
tim kennedy
It's like the no-fly list.
There's just not a way to not get off it.
joe rogan
Who the fuck ever gets back on the fly?
I know you were off the list, but you're back on.
Come on back.
Get on board, Southwest.
tim kennedy
No worries.
joe rogan
Sit near the window.
unidentified
No.
tim kennedy
Can I have my beverage service and peanuts, please?
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's...
Things where there's a left side and a right side.
If you say something that the left believes in, you're a traitor.
And if you're on the other side, if you say something the right believes in, you're a traitor.
tim kennedy
But the conversation has to happen in the middle.
joe rogan
Right, it does.
tim kennedy
So how do you do that?
joe rogan
Well, the conversation with animals has to happen in the middle.
When you're talking about the consumption of animals, you have the hardcore animal rights activists who don't want anything to die, but how do they feel about wolves eating elk asshole first?
Tear them apart.
Are you okay with that?
Are you okay with natural predation?
You are.
You're just not okay with humans predating.
So how do you want to balance out the population of, say, wild pigs?
What's your proposal?
They don't have one.
There's not enough resources in the world to go out and trap them.
And if you did trap them, what are you going to do?
Are you going to fix them?
Are you going to give them vasectomies?
tim kennedy
We tried to give them to the homeless, but the homeless weren't eating them in Texas.
unidentified
Really?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Why would you not eat wild pig?
tim kennedy
It's delicious.
Texas wild pig's pretty...
joe rogan
Is it funky?
tim kennedy
It's pretty funky.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Isn't it just how you take care of it?
tim kennedy
Well, you have to take care of it.
That's the thing, is these are swamp living...
joe rogan
Oh, right, right, right.
tim kennedy
...rough, pretty nasty things.
So there was a period of time where we could go, and during the eradication, we were trying to curb the ever-growing population.
If you shot...
X number, you could bring maybe a fat sow in to the food shelter, and they'd have a butcher, and then they'd try to serve it, and they're like, nobody was eating it.
So then we tried that for about six months, and then they said, forget it.
We're just wasting money.
joe rogan
That is just so goofy.
What a goofy world we live in where people who are starving are picky.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Like, I don't want that wild pig.
joe rogan
Well, maybe, I mean, in their defense, maybe it's just really poorly handled, and by the time they get it, it's tainted, it smells bad, and I don't know.
I mean, it's entirely possible that somebody fucked it up along the way.
They don't treat wild pigs in Texas like you would treat a deer that you shot that you hunted down and took a long time to track, and you had to get into perfect position, and you cherish that meat.
Wild pigs are shooting them out of helicopters.
I'm sure you've seen those Ted Nugent videos.
tim kennedy
Oh, yeah, I do it.
joe rogan
Do you do that?
tim kennedy
Yeah, I do it.
joe rogan
The hella hunting?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
They'll be farms.
So a farm in, let's say, central Texas, north of Austin, south of Dallas, they're losing 10-15% of their agriculture every single year to wild pigs.
joe rogan
Millions of dollars.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
tim kennedy
So if you have a $10 million ranch, you're losing $1.5 million to wild pigs.
Yeah, and there's not a lot of profit in being a farmer.
So one and a half million dollars is a lot of money to these guys.
And then on the flip side, you have a bunch of, I'm using hunters, guys that are coming to, because it's sport fun.
I mean, there's not...
There's not much fair game here.
There's not stock in these animals.
It's thermals.
It's white lights off jeeps.
It's any way you can imagine to try to kill these things, and we're not even making a dent in how fast these things are breeding.
A sow can have...
At the age of one, it can start having three or four litters a year.
joe rogan
I think it's six months.
tim kennedy
Oh, it's crazy.
joe rogan
I think they can start breeding at six months.
tim kennedy
And they're having multiple litters a year, and each litter can have six to ten pigs.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
We're done.
If they're zombies, it's over.
It's over.
joe rogan
Well, if they were predators.
I mean, imagine if these things were like wolves.
tim kennedy
Oh, I have imagined.
joe rogan
If wolves spread like that.
Oh, I bet you have.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Yeah, you don't know how Tim goes to sleep at night.
You just nailed it, Joe.
You got it.
joe rogan
I mean, could you imagine if wolves were doing that?
If there were that many wolves, and they were just roaming through the countryside, packs of a thousand wolves.
tim kennedy
I have an erection now.
Woo!
joe rogan
Curb it.
Pull it back.
Pull it back.
Use your mind.
Yeah, I mean, that conversation is the conversation where the vegans run into an ideological wall.
Like, what do you say about that?
You want to just live and let be?
Well, you're not going to have any vegan food, because they eat vegan food.
Okay, you're not going to have any food.
The pigs are going to eat all your food unless you're growing your own food.
And then what are you going to do if the pigs break your fences and eat your food and you don't have any food left?
tim kennedy
Oh, they break your fences.
joe rogan
They do break your fences.
tim kennedy
They break your everything.
joe rogan
They are big and they're powerful creatures and they decimate...
Ground nesting birds, anything that's small.
I mean, there's some videos that we have from Texas of a big boar running away with an axis deer fawn in its mouth.
I mean, they eat everything they can.
They're monsters.
And they're delicious.
I don't know about the Texas ones.
I've eaten a couple of California ones.
They were fantastic.
tim kennedy
My dad, he's in Monterey County.
He has his pig trough, pig pond, and he has a herd of pigs that come every night.
It's almost like a visceral response for me to watch my dad drive down in his four-wheeler and feed these things where I'm like, oh no, dad.
joe rogan
Why does he feed them?
tim kennedy
Because he loves them.
Elk comes through there.
He has truly elk that wanders his property.
And so he has a bunch of these wild pigs.
And so he and my mom, they sit on the porch and they watch the wild animals and the deer.
joe rogan
It's kind of cool.
tim kennedy
Super cool.
But then the Texan in me is like, I want to just get rid of all of those things.
They're an abomination.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Missouri has an interesting take on it.
They're making hunting them illegal.
And the reason why they're making hunting them illegal is because people are bringing them into areas and releasing them in public land so that they can hunt these wild pigs.
And they're recognizing this.
So what they've done to curb the desire for people to do that is, first of all, they're trapping them instead of running down with dogs or shooting them.
And they find by trapping them.
There's a great podcast that Steve Rinella, he has the Meat Eater podcast.
It's a great podcast.
But he had a guy who is a wild pig eradication expert from Missouri.
He works for the Department of Fish and Wildlife down there.
I guess they call it Fish and game down there.
California they call it fish and wildlife.
But they've used these traps.
They can get as many as like 63 pigs at a time.
And he's like, if we tried to shoot 63 pigs, it would take forever to do that.
So they're using these large-scale traps, catching these pigs, and, you know, they're just killing them.
And the way they're doing, they get a lot of backlash from hunters because the hunters are like, well, why don't you just let us hunt them?
They say, no, we want to get rid of all of them.
These are a dangerous invasive species.
You guys want to keep someone around for fun, but you're not going to manage the population correctly.
You really can't.
So they're on an eradication bend down there.
tim kennedy
I'd love to see how that works.
joe rogan
They're apparently doing a really good job in keeping them from spreading into new areas of public land.
They'll get a notification, someone will say, hey, we saw a sow and two baby piglets in this one area, and they will just go there immediately and just track those things down and try to kill them.
The areas where populations are clearly established, they're trying to get them from spreading.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
I mean, it's a huge industry, too, though.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
I mean, hunting in general, we're talking billions and billions of dollars.
And, you know, whether you're trophy hunting in Africa and you're paying a few hundred thousand dollars for a water buffalo, or, you know, you're going and, you know, you're just getting some...
A blessed buck or an Impala, and you're still paying $10,000.
The flight, the donating the food to the village, the trophy fee, the processing, then the shipping, the gun itself, the ammo, paying for the pH, paying for the guide, paying for the tracker.
That's all real, real money.
And then even on the local American side, deer hunting, elk hunting, pig hunting, still billion dollar industry.
And that money directly goes back to habitat protection, conservation, not in like incremental percentages, massive portions of that money.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's the Pickman Roberts Act, right?
It's like, what is it, 11%?
Jamie, see if you can find that.
I think they established that in the 30s.
And this was in response to, you know, what Teddy Roosevelt did when they were trying to keep large swaths of public land available for people to recreate on and then try to bring back populations of these animals that needed funds to do that.
Because market hunting, people think it was like just hunters that decimated the population, sort of, but market hunting.
It was hunting wild animals for people to eat, which is now illegal.
You can't just go shoot a bunch of deer and then sell it to people.
It's illegal.
And one of the reasons why it's illegal is they wanted to stop market hunting.
So they take all this money, which I believe is 11%.
Is it 11%?
11% of all the money from hunting supplies, gear, guns, all that shit, all of it goes towards conservation.
And that turns out to be billions and billions of dollars a year.
And that's what keeps...
The protection, here it goes right here.
Okay, the early 1900s, many wildlife species were disappearing or declining.
The firearms and ammunition industry asked Congress to impose an excise tax.
I mean, that is amazing.
They asked Congress to impose this tax on the sale of firearms and ammunition to help fund wildlife conservation in the United States.
The Pittman-Robertson Act passed in 1937. Known as the Federal Aid and Wildlife Restoration.
So this is how wetlands get preserved, wildlife habitat, like traveling corridors for mule deer, how they keep them from getting developed.
All that stuff is through conservation money that comes from hunting.
The difference between the amount of money that comes from hunting and conservation acts that gets donated to preserve wildlife versus animal rights groups is so stunning.
You can't even count.
tim kennedy
It's like 90 pennies on the It's nothing.
joe rogan
It's like they don't donate it.
I mean, some people donate a few dollars here or there to things, but the vast majority of the money comes from hunters, which creates this really confusing place for a lot of people who are opposed to killing animals.
tim kennedy
That ends up being the middle ground conversation that nobody will actually have.
joe rogan
Right.
Well, that's the conversation about Africa, too, right?
That those animals, when you let people hunt them, they're worth a lot more than if you just let the poachers come in and do what they will with them.
unidentified
And they're protected.
joe rogan
And they're protected.
tim kennedy
But the moment that the hunters go away, they disappear.
joe rogan
But the animal rights activists and the vegans would like us to move past that and get to the point where we don't kill animals at all.
And if you eat animals, you get it from a lab.
It's not impossible, but it's...
tim kennedy
Go to Africa.
joe rogan
In Africa, it's probably impossible in the current state.
Unless some massive evolution happens with consciousness and people just stop being people.
tim kennedy
Yeah, and so Limpopo, which is north of South Africa, right on the Botswana border, they kind of like gave this whirl of trying to...
90% of the exact right location, but they outlawed the hunting of some specific wild game.
And...
The farmers that had them just kind of, okay, we're just going to let them go because they're not worth anything to us.
All of their animals disappeared in a year, poached.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
tim kennedy
In a year, one year, all of them were gone, just disappeared.
So the intent was, okay, these are nearing endangered, so we're going to not allow people to hunt them.
And then they went from endangered to Almost endangered to absolutely endangered, critically, because nobody was protecting them, because there were no hunters that wanted them.
joe rogan
It's hard for people to wrap their head around because it's so messy.
It's not a clean issue.
It's so messy.
And you see some fat slob holding his rifle over a lion and you go, and there's no way in nature this fat fuck should be able to shoot that lion and just, you know, and mount it on his wall.
There's a photo that I got off the internet of a guy.
He looks like he's about 500 pounds and he's just overflowing with gluttony and he's got a rifle and there's a dead lion there.
And I'm like, okay.
This is everything that's wrong with hunting because he's not going to eat that lion.
Why did he go over there to shoot that lion?
It's one thing if that lion was hunting his family or interfering with his cattle business.
No, no, no.
That guy flew over there.
He waddled over to the bog pod, rested the rifle down, and pulled the trigger on one of the biggest apex predators on the planet.
Everybody should have a problem with that.
It's fucking weird.
It's weird.
But now here's the contradiction.
If those animals aren't worth money for people to hunt, then what happens is, what happens in Zimbabwe, they just kill hundreds of them.
Because there's too many of them now.
Because people aren't hunting them, so they're decimating the ungulate population, so they have to curb the lions.
So instead of getting $50,000 or $100,000 a lion from a hunter, which goes to the villagers, goes to conservation, goes to hire professional hunters, now they get nothing.
And they have to pay someone to go and shoot these lions.
tim kennedy
And they shoot all of them.
joe rogan
They shoot all of them.
tim kennedy
They shoot all of them.
joe rogan
And you're like, well, this sucks.
This is not good.
None of this is good.
This ain't good both ways.
It's not good to look at that fat guy standing over a lion.
And it's not good to look at these, you know, these government people shooting 200 lions and just dumping them into a hole somewhere.
The whole thing's a mess.
tim kennedy
That's Africa.
Here, you know, we try to do the right thing.
Or, you know, if you're going to get a...
If you're going to get a bear tag from Colorado, or you're going to bear tag from New Mexico, for that tag to be issued, they measure the amount of food that's in each district, and then they're going to issue six tags, because there's enough food to, there's 12 bears there, but there's only enough food to feed six of them.
So they're going to issue six tags.
That, or, all 12 of them might starve to death.
Or the majority of them.
So they're going to issue, and you can go and buy your six tags.
That leaves six animals in that area, in that region that you're able to hunt.
You're paying for that tag a lot of money sometimes.
If you're out of state, you're paying a few hundred dollars, five, six, seven hundred dollars.
Flights, hotels, it's for a bear.
joe rogan
It adds up.
But, you know, I understand the mindset of people that don't want any of this to happen.
I do understand it.
But I do think that they don't understand nature.
I really don't think they understand that this is the best death these animals will ever experience.
And they're not going to live forever in the wild.
In the wild, they're going to be torn apart by something bigger than them.
That's just how it goes.
100% of the time.
Or they freeze to death or they starve to death.
tim kennedy
Or they're starving, they walk down on the road to try to find some food in the town, they get hit by a semi-truck.
joe rogan
Yeah, that happens too.
That sucks.
Yeah, and I have a buddy who lives in Iowa, and when you drive in his neighborhood at night, you better go 35 miles an hour, because those fuckers are just darting out in front of the street left and right.
They're everywhere.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And, you know, what's the solution?
Don't drive cars, drive your bike everywhere, man.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, okay.
Good luck with that.
I get it.
I get where those people are coming from.
They're coming from a place of compassion.
But it becomes very culty, and it becomes very team-oriented.
They're team vegan.
tim kennedy
And there's like words.
We're circling back where, you know, when you're trying to have that middle ground, that discussion, that conversation, there's like this pre-assigned talking points.
Where everybody from every respective side makes essentially the same argument.
And you're just regurgitating what you've heard other people say.
But there's no new thought.
And there's no one taking a step to either side.
Like, okay, maybe there's something I'm not seeing here.
Let me look at it from this perspective.
Or vice versa.
Where this side, the hunter's like, no, no, you stupid snowflake.
Go get your Starbucks latte with your soy milk.
But they're never looking at it from anything new.
They're just regurgitating their talking points.
joe rogan
Like when you said gun control and people freaked out.
tim kennedy
Freaked out because I didn't stay to the script.
And there's a script.
I mean, if you pull up any of my social, you will see that, oh, what you should have said was, or, hey, you know, shall not be infringed upon.
Yeah, man, I got it.
Yeah.
Shall not be infringed upon it.
Believe it to death.
Have you fought for it?
Have you bled for it?
You've been blown up for it?
You've been shot?
I have.
I really believe in this shit.
But I didn't stay to the script, and then I get murdered by both sides.
So then how do we...
I mean, you do a pretty good job.
So teach me, Joe.
How do you bring people in to have a talk?
joe rogan
There's gotta be a lot of people that disagree with you and say I do a terrible job, that I repeat the same things over and over again, and I agree with them for a certain amount of the conversations, like this one.
I mean, I've had this conversation about conservation and animals a hundred times, but I think it's worth having a hundred more.
Because I think it's important that if someone is listening to this podcast and they didn't understand how it all works and they didn't understand that people who hunt and eat meat, they aren't monsters.
They're not evil people.
Just like people who eat grain aren't monsters because you callously disregard the lives of mice and rats and All the things that get ground up in combines and bunnies.
Like, if you buy grain, large-scale agriculture is bad, period.
It's bad in terms of factory farming, but it's also bad in terms of growing food.
If you grow a thousand acres of corn, you are absolutely displacing wildlife, and when that stuff gets harvest, you see vultures fly over those fields, and there's a reason.
It's because there's a bunch of dead things.
In fact, More dead lives occur in a pound of grain than occur in a pound of beef.
Because if you think that a cow is more valuable than a bunny because it's larger, you've got some weird life thing going on in your own head.
tim kennedy
You tell me how to balance the soul's worth on body weight.
joe rogan
Exactly.
And how do you feel about insects?
Because they are a large scale poisoning those fucking insects and you know it.
Everybody knows it.
And they're grinding those fuckers up with earthworms and mice and gophers and chipmunks and anything else that gets stuck in those wheels.
That is just how large-scale agriculture works.
So unless you have some isolated farm where everything's fenced in, and you only have a certain amount of acreage, and that farm feeds you, well, you are karma-free.
And congratulations to you.
You figured out how to do it.
But most of us who buy pasta, if you go and buy bread in the store, you're paying someone who's killed a large amount of living things in order to harvest that grain.
That's just a fact.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's just a fact.
And it's an inconvenient fact that they like to look at with blinders on because they, you know, like, I'm hashtag cruelty free.
Not to that fucking bunny rabbit that's a part of your tofu.
Because this is what's really going on.
I mean, a good part of the vitamin B that a lot of vegans get is from ground up bugs.
That's ground up into their grain and ground up into their vegetables.
I mean, this is just, you can't get around that.
tim kennedy
I mean, not if you are being real.
joe rogan
No, if you're being real.
tim kennedy
Maybe that's the problem in the first place is nobody is going to have the courage to come into that middle ground and let go of all of their baggage and all of their...
Bullshit.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And if you're cool with eating bugs, you should eat crickets.
Get cricket meal.
Eat cricket protein.
It's fucking good for you.
If you don't want to eat animals, you're like, I'm just not into anything that's warm.
Okay.
I have a friend who only eats fish.
And I go, why?
He goes, fish don't even take care of their babies.
I was like, ooh, good point.
tim kennedy
That is a good point.
joe rogan
Fuck those fish.
tim kennedy
Fish are yummy, too.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He's like, I don't want to kill a mammal.
He goes, I don't want to eat a mammal.
He's like, mammals take care of their babies.
Their babies milk from their udders.
I'm like, okay, I get it.
tim kennedy
My wife was a pescatarian for a while.
That didn't last.
joe rogan
Just not the best source of nutrients.
tim kennedy
Well, it was when she's pregnant and the doctor's like, alright, so you're 90 pounds and I need you to put on like 20 more pounds really fast and you're not going to do it eating halibut.
And her iron was low.
joe rogan
Yeah, iron, B12, I mean, all the fat-soluble vitamins that are very difficult to get from plants.
This is a great chair.
They're very good.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's a company called, well, they changed their name.
They used to be called, what do they call it?
Ergo Depot, now they're called Fully.
And this is called the Capisco.
It's the best ergonomic chair.
I fucking love these things.
I sit in these things hours a day.
My back never bothers me.
tim kennedy
I really can't sit for very long periods of time.
My desk at home, my reloading station, it's all standing height.
joe rogan
Oh, you're one of those standing desk guys?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
I'll even take a medicine ball, like the balance balls, and I'll get on my knees on it, and I'll just balance.
joe rogan
Oh, that's a good move.
tim kennedy
Yeah, it feels good, but it is tight, tight.
joe rogan
And you're kind of keeping your core strong, flowing away.
tim kennedy
It's less of the core and it's more...
I have like a seven-year-old brain, you know, that if I'm not doing a lot of things at once, I just get distracted.
So I just do lots of things at once.
Like having to balance on a ball so I don't smash my face into the desk and knock myself out while I'm reloading ammunition and playing with explosives.
Like that is a perfect recipe for me to be successful at reloading bullets.
joe rogan
You reload explosives as well as bullets?
tim kennedy
No, no.
Oh, and gunpowder is an explosive.
unidentified
Oh, right, right, right, right.
joe rogan
I thought you meant, like, grenades and shit, too.
tim kennedy
No.
I will take...
Like, if we are going to go do...
So, tomorrow, I'm playing with the Dutch Special Forces at Revely Peak Ranch in Austin, Texas.
And...
We are going to set up a bunch of booby traps for them when they come in to do their final culmination hit, the full mission profile.
So they're going to spend all day planning and they're going to figure out how they're going to walk through the woods and not get caught.
And I'm essentially the terrorists that they're going to try and come kill.
But I'm a really good terrorist.
joe rogan
So...
So how do you guys keep from actually killing each other when you're doing this?
tim kennedy
They're using simunitions.
So they use a real guns with different bolts that shoot like paintballs.
joe rogan
How many feet per second are these paintballs flying?
tim kennedy
800. Oh, okay.
joe rogan
Stangs like a motherfucker.
tim kennedy
I'm still wearing hockey glasses.
Or snowboard glasses.
joe rogan
You ever catch one in the mouth?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
I have a friend that has a tattoo on his lip.
joe rogan
From the paint?
tim kennedy
From the paint.
joe rogan
Oh, wonderful.
tim kennedy
It's all the way into the flesh.
It won't come out.
There's a chunk of pink in his lip forever.
I offered to cut it out.
He said no.
I don't know.
Boring.
I'm really good with a knife.
joe rogan
I bet you are.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Dan, if you're listening right now, let me cut that out of your face.
joe rogan
Maybe he likes it.
Makes him unique.
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Oh, he's unique.
joe rogan
What is Finding Hitler all about?
This is a show that you're on, and it's on A&E? Is that what it's on?
tim kennedy
Yeah, A&E is the parent network.
It airs on History Channel.
And we just had our third season that just finished airing.
joe rogan
What's the thought process behind this?
Is it legit?
Because a lot of people are like, finding Hitler.
Get the fuck out of here.
They found Hitler.
He died.
tim kennedy
Yeah, I mean...
joe rogan
Not really?
tim kennedy
We don't know.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
That's the...
I mean, this isn't like ancient aliens.
This is...
We...
They declassified a bunch of documents.
They...
Both the Israelis, the British, and the Germans and Americans in the past 20 years have been consistently declassifying documents.
And there were a bunch of specifically FBI documents that we were spending millions and millions of dollars actively searching for Hitler after the war.
Really?
Yeah.
Like millions of dollars.
Hoover was like, no, no, no.
Send more FBI agents to South America, to North Africa, go to the Canary Islands, go to Spain, trying to find out where this guy went.
Yeah.
Tons of real FBI documents with real leads, with real informants, some first eye accounts saying that they...
So anyways, that's the show, is us trying to find out, sift through reality and the fiction of the allure, the mystery of that asshole.
joe rogan
So what's the official story?
The official story is that he killed himself, right?
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
He killed himself in the bunker with Ava Braun.
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
And is there any photographic evidence of his death or anything?
tim kennedy
So what...
The Russians got the body and they got his skull.
And when they brought it back to Moscow, nobody has ever been able to independently verify who and what this body is.
They let one genetic test occur and the body with the bullet holes that they said was Hitler.
And have said, and that's the narrative, that's the story, that's all the eyewitness accounts that are even in the vicinity of collaborating with each other and corroborating each other's testimony.
Like, the closest version, because none of it seems to be very accurate, is that, okay, here's Hitler's skull, and when they did the genetic testing, it's that of a 35-year-old woman.
So, like, oh, well, this isn't Hitler, but they've said for the past...
80 years that this is Hitler.
unidentified
So, okay.
tim kennedy
First, before we start throwing stones at Russia, let's go back to 1945, April, in Berlin.
You have the Allies coming in, wrecking shop, dropping bombs, blowing everything up they can in every single which way.
You have the Russians coming in from the opposite direction.
They don't even have enough guns to arm all their soldiers.
So if they have 200 guys, or 200,000 guys, they have 100,000 guns.
If the guy in front of you dies, you just pick up his gun.
That's what's happening in April of 1945 in Berlin.
So the noose is tightening.
There is no—I mean, it is chaos, anarchy, pandemonium.
This—I mean, you couldn't—this is hell on Earth, is Berlin, 1945. So I don't know if you could get a real story, a real— The way that we do it now, where we have these forensic experts that come in and document everything, and we look at all the different testimonies and say, this is exactly how...
It's not CSI. This is 1945 Berlin.
It's crazy.
So, I don't know.
joe rogan
So, there's no absolute proof.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
And a lot of Nazis did escape and go to South America.
tim kennedy
The majority of anyone with power.
The Nuremberg trials were not a winch hunt, but it was to close a chapter so we could start moving forward with communism.
That's what it was.
The threat of fascism, the threat of Hitler, the threat of killing all the Jews, the threat of world domination by the Nazis, that threat's gone.
What's the next threat?
unidentified
Communism.
tim kennedy
It's communism.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
So that had to be a closed chapter of our history so we could focus our resources and our efforts to what inevitably was going to – I mean, the wall goes up.
We have East and West Berlin.
You know, we're already looking at Korea.
I mean, this happens almost overnight.
joe rogan
Right, very quickly.
tim kennedy
You know, when Patton's like, no, no, homies, we need to go all the way to Moscow.
This is not the end of our war.
And we didn't listen to him.
We then have been, you know, fighting communism for the past 75 years.
joe rogan
So the ones with power that went to South America, I know a bunch of them went to Argentina, but they think they went to Honduras and a few other places.
Where do they think they wound up?
tim kennedy
So what you had in South America, both Chile and Argentina back-to-back had fascist regimes.
You had Peron, who was part of the Nazi party starting all the way back into the mid-30s.
He's the president of Argentina.
unidentified
Wow.
tim kennedy
So the Red Cross, there was about three different rat lines that guys were able to successfully get out of Europe into South America.
And there's no question that we're talking thousands, if not tens of thousands of high-ranking Nazis made it there.
Tens of thousands.
And I'm not talking like little soldiers.
I'm talking high-ranking Nazis, officers, guys like Joseph Mengele and Adolf Eichmann.
I mean, these are the most disgusting, despicable humans to exist at the time.
If Hitler is dead, Joseph Mengele is the guy that would take...
Syringes full of blue ink and inject them.
Oh, you have blue eyes, Joe.
Or you have brown eyes.
Let me see if I can make them blue.
joe rogan
Oh, wow.
tim kennedy
And then take twins and start torturing them to see if one would feel the pain.
That's Joseph Mengele.
I mean, that's the guy that then in South America was helping high-ranking Argentinians have abortions.
And he set up...
Have you seen the movie Colonia?
unidentified
No.
tim kennedy
About Colonia Dignidad?
Which is...
If you're listening right now, I must warn you not to Google it because it was a torture camp that was started by Joseph Schaefer, a Nazi.
And Joseph Mengele, the doctor of death that escaped trial in Nuremberg and made it on the behest of Peron into Argentina, he set up the hospital at Colonia Dignidad, which was another safe haven for more Nazis in South America.
Golda Meir and Ben-Gurion, the presidents of Israel, they took the gloves off, and they were just sending assassins to try to find these people and kill them.
But what you got in South America were isolated, German-only communities.
You could go into Bariloche, Argentina, and I'd be like, Buenos dias, amigos, and they're like...
Guten Morgen?
I'm like, oh.
Yeah, I meant good morning.
Yeah, sorry.
It's 2017, right?
I thought we spoke Spanish here.
joe rogan
So, in 2017, you were there and they were speaking German.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
unidentified
Whoa.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Well, I don't look very...
I might look more European than I do.
So, it's just them seeing me walking down the street and be like...
unidentified
Wow!
Yeah.
tim kennedy
And there's tons of communities.
I mean, if you go to Colonia Dignidad, which is now called Via Bavaria, the Bavarian village, it is only German.
unidentified
Whoa!
tim kennedy
In the center of Chile, in the mountains of Chile.
Like, there's no Spanish being spoken there.
It is exclusively German.
joe rogan
And these are descendants of Nazis?
tim kennedy
Powerful Nazis.
joe rogan
Holy shit!
And this is going on right now?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
What are these communities like?
I mean, what's their ideology?
Are they...
tim kennedy
I mean, they're pretty white.
joe rogan
Yeah, but are they like...
I mean, are they...
Do they espouse Nazi values?
tim kennedy
Not openly.
So, Colonia Dignidad.
unidentified
Uh...
tim kennedy
If you look at the second generation, there's a bunch of...
So, it was a huge problem for Chile that they tried to hide for years.
And they got so much power from the torturing that they did at Colonia Dignidad on a whole bunch of other high-ranking South American dictators that they are almost untouchable.
And this is...
I mean, you'd blow your mind if you look into this, Joe.
You'd love it.
But...
The second generation, the kids, like the grandkids, sometimes they're even more fanatical than the original generation.
Have you ever seen this?
Where, like, if somebody's away from...
Like, when you travel abroad, man, it's so cool to, like, to get into the culture and get into the food and get into the...
Like, you're dancing this style and you love the flag and you're like, oh, I'm gonna go to a soccer game because we don't go to soccer games in America and then I'm gonna go...
But then maybe after, like, two months, you kind of miss home.
You know, and then, like...
A year, you really miss home.
And then 10 years, you really, really miss home.
And you see the same thing in the United States where it's not really a perfect assimilation.
It's not the melting pot where you see generations that are espousing to be more like their ethnic heritage than they are American.
You know, they're flying the Irish flag and like, I'm Irish.
Well, it's just times a thousand with these communities because they're exclusively German.
joe rogan
Whoa.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
It's pretty cool.
Kind of weird.
joe rogan
So, exclusively German, really missing home.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
70 years later.
tim kennedy
The second generations I was talking about, some of them came to the United States and were high-ranking white supremacists that are now in jail, in prison, for their racial crimes.
joe rogan
And they came out of South America.
tim kennedy
They came out of Colonia Dignidad.
They came out of Baraloche.
They came out of Cordoba.
They came out of Missiones.
They came out of...
Crazy.
So that's the show, Hunting Hitler.
joe rogan
Fucking A, man.
tim kennedy
It's a trip.
joe rogan
How many people are we talking about all told in South America that come out of this, I mean, tens of thousands went there, but how many German communities and how big are they?
tim kennedy
Maybe out of 50 German communities.
50?
joe rogan
How many people, if you had to guess?
tim kennedy
A few hundred thousand.
joe rogan
Holy shit!
A few hundred thousand descendants of Nazis.
Wow!
tim kennedy
Yeah, and man, it's weird when you walk into somebody's parlor and it's like you're stepping back in time into Europe.
Like I'm walking in, it's 2017 and I'm walking in Buenos Aires, Argentina into somebody's parlor and all of the tile is European and all the style and all the art is Is very German.
You know, we have like deers and not like red stags.
We're talking German everything.
Things that Hitler loved.
And that's the style and that's everything.
And then they come out and like with white gloves, they're holding their grandfather's memory box.
And inside of it are his war medals from, you know, when he was in the SS or when he was...
And it is the respect, the...
I don't even know the right...
joe rogan
Reverence?
tim kennedy
Yeah, I mean, it's like this is a gift from the Pope that they're holding in their hands.
White gloves.
No, I can't.
First of all, Tim can't touch it.
But I can appreciate it.
And then they tell me the story of every single one of these things and how he got there and how he then went and worked for the Buenos Aires News.
joe rogan
You can't touch anything.
tim kennedy
No, because I can...
joe rogan
You're dirty.
tim kennedy
I'm dirty.
joe rogan
Dirty American.
tim kennedy
Look at this.
joe rogan
You're too brown.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Fuck, man.
tim kennedy
So we followed...
The first two seasons, it was really just unraveling the rumors of what happened to Hitler.
The third season was my favorite because I actually got to do real work.
They said, okay...
I got to the second season.
I got to bring in more special forces guys.
A CIA targeter, Nadia, who helped my unit kill Zarqawi in 2006. This is the team that is now looking at real evidence, trying to figure out, okay, how did we find bin Laden?
How did we find Zarkawi?
We looked at their associates and we looked at how they moved.
We looked at how they communicated.
We looked at what routes they were using to get to and from places.
And then we just started tightening the noose.
And that's exactly what we did in this third season.
Was, okay, let's start following the Adolf Eichmanns.
Let's start following the Joseph Mengele's.
And let's start following the Skorzynski's.
Hitler's personal bodyguard that was a colonel in the SS that went on to work for everybody after the war fighting...
I mean, fascists do not like communists.
So this guy was working for everybody to include the CIA fighting fascism in South America, or fighting communism as a fascist in South America in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
unidentified
Whoa.
tim kennedy
Creepy stuff.
joe rogan
Whoa.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
So...
joe rogan
So, are there any legitimate eyewitness accounts of Hitler in South America?
Or potentially legitimate?
tim kennedy
Absolutely, potentially.
unidentified
Whoa.
Yep.
tim kennedy
Eyewitness accounts, I saw him get off a boat, I saw him meet here, and if it was just some person saying it, It's almost meaningless.
But if you look at the context of who this person is, the wealth that they have, that they shouldn't have, can you explain how you got so rich in two generations?
You know, like, okay, your grandpa got here from Germany in 1946. That's weird.
And he's on a legitimate visa with an Argentinian passport.
Also weird.
And now he's a war refugee that's now worth millions of dollars.
How does this work?
So...
But people, and then this is the hard part, people want to be connected to significant events.
And especially in small, rural areas of the world.
Developing areas.
Like, they want, there's so little happening, they want to be attached to something massive.
And like, the fact that they saw a U-boat.
Land on this beach and the hatch opened and these cars were sitting there and they were doing Morse code and this guy gets off and he had this little mustache.
You're like, you boats can't beach.
That's not how that works.
But you know what they're trying to do.
They just want to be connected.
And now we're removed 70 to 80 years from the fax.
It has been painful to try to use...
Real science, real investigative tools to try to sift through this lore, you know?
joe rogan
What do you think happened?
I mean, you've been studying this for how long now?
tim kennedy
Three years.
joe rogan
Three years.
If you had a guess, if you had like a million bucks, you got to put it on one side or another.
Did he go there?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Whoa.
Jesus Christ.
I would say, man, that's the first time I've ever said it flat out like that.
What I want to say is, the way history is written is wrong.
That's clear.
There's no way that we can say, he died on this day, this is what happened, here is his body.
joe rogan
So the physical proof is for sure the woman that had, that they were saying was Hitler, is definitely not Hitler.
tim kennedy
That's a fact.
joe rogan
So they don't have Hitler's body.
tim kennedy
So then our other option was, okay, is it Ava Brahms?
Did they just grab the wrong body, right?
So there are still descendants of Ava, and we tried to have them allow us to do it.
Then we tried to go through like...
joe rogan
And they can get DNA off of the skull?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's meat on it?
tim kennedy
No, it's like a tooth.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Okay.
But they wouldn't consent to it.
So then we tried to do, you know, like where people have like the tree, their ethnic tree.
What is those websites called?
joe rogan
23andMe?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
There's like a bunch of them.
We try to go that route.
joe rogan
They wouldn't consent to it.
tim kennedy
Nope.
joe rogan
The Ava Braun's family.
tim kennedy
They just want it gone.
joe rogan
They just don't want it.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
They're super pissed that we even found them.
joe rogan
I'm sure.
tim kennedy
Which was hard.
Which was really hard.
joe rogan
Just hold them down, get them to spit in a bucket.
tim kennedy
I know!
Or pull their trash and pull stuff out of there.
No, I would totally not do that.
joe rogan
Definitely not do that.
I mean, that's how they caught the Golden State Killer, right?
It was off a cigarette butt.
They got DNA off a cigarette butt.
tim kennedy
So history's wrong.
For it to be black and white like that.
And again, if you go back to 1945, we needed scientists.
We needed every single German electrical engineer, mechanical engineer, aerospace, anything.
You're on the V2 program.
We want all of you because now it's a race.
It's a race.
We have the bomb.
Now we need delivery systems.
Now we need to get to the moon.
Now we need to, you know, like all of those things are real time.
It's a war, a war of dollars and a war of science.
And we got all those scientists.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
The Russians didn't.
joe rogan
Well, they got some.
tim kennedy
Some.
Not very many.
joe rogan
Operation Paperclip was what brought over Werner Von Braun, who was...
When you talk to Jews that were in Berlin during the time that Werner Von Braun was running his rocket program there, he would hang the five slowest Jews in front of the rocket factory in Berlin just to give everybody motivation to work harder.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
The Simon Wiesenthal Center said that if Wernher von Braun was alive today, they would prosecute him for crimes against humanity.
He was a Nazi.
Straight up Nazi.
And people, there's apologists that say, no, no, no.
He was a scientist.
He was forced into doing that.
That's like, okay.
He's a Nazi.
There's photographs of him wearing Nazi garb, hanging out with Nazis.
His rocket factory killed Jews.
These are all undeniable facts.
tim kennedy
Except the war ends and they're not Nazis anymore.
That's not how that works.
joe rogan
Exactly.
But they were forgiven because they came over and contributed to our rocket program.
tim kennedy
I'm not that good of a human.
I don't have that in me.
I don't have that like, okay, you're forgiven.
joe rogan
It's slippery, man, because they wanted to beat the Russians, and they knew the Russians got a bunch of them, too.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, the Russians got a bunch of them for their rocket program.
tim kennedy
Hell, the Egyptians did.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
The Egyptians were trying to create a delivery system to drop bombs into Israel.
And then Ben-Gurion started having these Nazi scientists try to have them assassinated.
They were mailing...
The Mossad was...
Are you familiar with this?
unidentified
No.
tim kennedy
The Mossad was mailing package bombs into Egypt and throughout Europe trying to kill these German scientists.
And they were all German Nazi...
Rocket guys that were working for Egypt and Egypt wanted to go blow up Israel.
This is into the 60s.
So they're still trying to find ways to kill the Jews and they're like, oh yeah, we'll go work for you, Egypt.
You know, so it's...
joe rogan
You know what's crazy is how fucking technologically advanced the Germans were.
tim kennedy
So far ahead of us.
joe rogan
It's so amazing.
And to this day, you drive a BMW and you go, whoa.
You motherfuckers are on point.
tim kennedy
I'm driving a Chevy Malibu right now and I'm like, ew.
unidentified
Ew.
joe rogan
Eh, drive a Corvette.
Get a new Corvette.
They're pretty fucking badass.
It's all in what you buy.
But I mean, there's German engineering in the 80s is fucking phenomenal.
I mean, if you drove a German car from the 1980s and an American car from the 80s, it's like there's no comparison.
I have a 1991 Porsche, and it's a fucking piece of engineering, man.
It's a marvel of engineering.
I mean, it's not fast like a modern car, but when you compare the build quality and how they constructed it and how it was put together in comparison to...
You know, a fucking Dodge Daytona from 1990. That's a hunk of shit.
Nobody wants one of those today.
tim kennedy
Well, unless you're going to build a VBID, then you want it.
joe rogan
Oh, I get it.
tim kennedy
That's the only time if you could blow it up.
joe rogan
Again, it's you.
The way you think is different, you know?
13-year-old child trafficking, counterfeit money.
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Dude, we'll be in some country, and I'll be walking by, and I'll look at a car, and I'll be like, that would make a great bomb.
Pfft.
I swear to God, that's what goes through my head.
You know?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, that's how the business works.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
We'll grow up someday.
joe rogan
So when you're over there in Argentina and you're meeting with these people and you know that they're descendants of Nazis and they bring out this grandfather's chest of things and war medals and all this jazz, like, what is this feeling like?
Do you feel like these people got away with something?
I mean, they kind of did, but these aren't the people that did it.
But they're the descendants of the people that did it, and they're still worshipping those people in some way.
tim kennedy
Yeah, I had a lot of...
Soul searching, trying to figure out what is the appropriate thing?
What's the appropriate response?
What am I supposed to be feeling right now?
And I think I'm a pretty exposed person.
Like, I'm in tuned with what I feel.
And one of the hardest days, we're in Chile.
And I interviewed this man and this woman.
And...
One of them is a second generation.
She was born on the Colonial Dignidad, on this compound as a Nazi.
Separated from her parents.
She didn't know who her parents was.
No, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
She was brought there at like age three or four.
But she grew up there and they're separated from her parents.
She didn't know who her parents was.
Her husband was a Chilean boy that was local.
And he heard about this new hospital that's built by Dr. Mengele and how everybody has food there.
And he's a porch laying kid, so he was able to get onto the compound.
Well, the locals and the Germans aren't supposed to be together, so he was kind of kept separated.
Well, because he was local, they started testing him and It got really violent and disgusting by the time he's a teenager.
He's being thrown out of windows, having his bones broken, being nursed back to health, being set on fire, being nursed back to health for like 10-15 years.
He finally talks...
What will be his future wife into escaping with him.
And they sneak out in a cheese truck because one of his friends, when he was a Chilean kid, grew up to be a police officer nearby and he was able to get a letter out to them.
Be like, please come help us.
And they came in and do a health inspection and they hopped inside of this cheese truck and they got away.
So I'm talking to this guy and he's telling me...
About the things that happened to him.
And I'm not going to get into it, but they were the most horrible things that could happen to a little boy that you could imagine.
You know, beyond rape, beyond being burnt alive, beyond being broken, for years and years and years.
And I'm shaking, because I, man...
I'm in Afghanistan, and they threw some acid on some kids, and I found those guys, and I killed those guys, because that's what you do when you hurt little kids.
I got a soft spot for people that can't take care of themselves, that can protect themselves.
I think every...
Real human isn't going to let anything weaker than ever get hurt in front of them.
And so I'm shaking listening to this story, you know, and I was like, and I know I have to go back to Colonia Dignidad the next day and put on like I'm a tourist guy hosting a travel show.
And that was our disguise to get in there was like, oh, you know, this is a beautiful Bavarian village.
You can come here.
That was our little way in.
And I was just going to go in and destroy that whole entire place.
That was my plan.
And the guy's looking at me and he's like, I see your anger.
And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go hurt all of them.
He's like, no, no more pain.
And I was like, okay, what's going on?
And he looks at his wife and he goes...
She saved me.
Every time that I was burnt, every time that I was broken, it was just love.
That's how I got out.
That's why we're alive today.
And we're going to die of old age together with the woman that I fell in love with on this colony.
The only thing that matters is love.
And I was like, God damn, I like you, but I still want to go hurt all of those people.
So it was like...
joe rogan
So these people that were doing this to him, what was their objective?
tim kennedy
They wanted to understand, I mean, so the same test that Joseph Mengele was doing in Germany in 1943, he's now doing in Chile in 1953. He just has a different population to test.
They're not Jews.
They're Chilean boys.
They're strong and they're wiry and they need less food.
They're not like the amusing quotation marks, the cockroach Jews that you just couldn't kill.
These were young, strong Browns.
These are their words verbatim that I'm using.
It's like, yeah, I want to tear your guys' faces out and stick soldering irons in your ear because you guys are so evil.
But then I'm the same as them, so I was just real torn.
I didn't know what to do.
I just wanted to kill them all.
joe rogan
Well, the worst aspects of human beings is this desire to hurt people that are weaker than you and torture them.
Just coming into contact with that and then some guy who has this most beautiful response to it.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, love saved me.
unidentified
I got it.
joe rogan
I just want to die.
Oh, fuck.
tim kennedy
You're a better human than I am.
So I never knew how to respond to these things.
I wanted to, every time I'd see a new SS medal or I'd see, you know, like this, the cross that they won for valor.
Like, crazy.
The equivalent of Medal of Honors these guys have in their parlors.
I'm like, These were Nazis.
You realize your grandpa is like, yeah, yes, yes.
Total pride.
Swelling in their chest.
You know, I was like, I don't want to crack you in the face, dude.
joe rogan
So how did Mengele die?
Did he die of old age?
tim kennedy
Of old age.
He died on a beach in Brazil.
His journal was found on the beach in Brazil.
joe rogan
Motherfucker.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Married a beautiful Brazilian girl.
unidentified
Wow.
tim kennedy
Adolf Eichmann, he got snatched by the Mossad in Argentina.
Skorzynski, he died of old age.
Actually, in the 60s, the Egyptians, when they're...
Trying to build that rocket program to annihilate Israel.
Skorzenci started working for the Mossad, but he didn't really know it, for they were paying him millions and millions of dollars to hold these parties for what he thought was the rise of the Fourth Reich.
joe rogan
Whoa.
tim kennedy
Yeah, so he was bringing in like Mercedes and Krush, Krush Steel, Krushner Steel, Krush Steel, these massive billion dollar corporations for the time.
He was hosting these soirees and talking and having other high level Nazis that were still alive come in.
And he was just really being used by the Mossad to try to figure out who was facilitating this Egyptian rocket program.
joe rogan
So they just were putting on these parties to kind of get everybody together so they could keep tabs on everybody and figure out who's who.
tim kennedy
That's what the Mossad was doing.
He was doing it with the intent of...
joe rogan
Making the Fourth Reich.
tim kennedy
Yeah, rising the Fourth Reich.
joe rogan
So the Mossad did this and then what did they do once they figured out who was who?
tim kennedy
Finally, they...
I don't like this part because I like just killing bad people.
They figured out that the big problem with...
The delivery system for the Egyptians in their missile program was the navigation system.
And they were trying to hire a whole bunch of these experts to come work for this program.
And they diplomatically kind of went behind the back and they got all of this, really the only experts in the world that prevented them from going and traveling to and work for Egypt.
So they kind of diplomatically ended the development of the delivery system for their warheads.
joe rogan
So that's how they handled it?
tim kennedy
After they poisoned some people and they sent some mail bombs and they kidnapped a guy and tortured him and killed him.
Fuck.
Yeah.
Real torture, not fake torture.
joe rogan
It's amazing how few people know about the Nazi...
It's amazing how when this comes up, it's relatively unknown.
I mean, your show has done a lot to shed some light on it, and I've read some articles about Nazis that escaped to South America, but it's not common knowledge.
tim kennedy
No, by design.
I mean, when you're down there, there is a...
There's a shroud of silence.
You're not supposed to talk about these things.
It takes a long time for me to get an interview with a guy.
It takes a long time for building rapport.
I mean, we're talking like...
I have some pretty high-level people working with me.
Special operations from every single branch.
To include the CIA, Army Special Forces.
And we are pulling out every trick in the book to try to get these people to talk to us.
To include bribing them.
And the...
It's hard.
So they still don't talk about it to this day.
joe rogan
Did you have to bring in German-speaking people?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
A lot of time.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
I mean...
What can be done?
I mean, obviously there's not the same people, right?
There's the people that benefited from the people that went down there.
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
So you're talking about like third generation removed.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
But what could be done?
It's kind of the damage is done, right?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
But that's a lot of damage.
What can be done is the ideas can die.
The ideas of fascism, the ideas of racism, those things we can kill.
joe rogan
But are those ideas being fostered in these communities?
tim kennedy
Yes.
They're being cultivated.
joe rogan
You experienced it?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, if I'm a white guy walking down the street, I am a higher degree than the locals.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
You know, like, I can go and shop in some places that they can't.
I can go in and sit down and have a meal in some places that they can't.
I'm being greeted on the street.
I'm getting Morgan, you know?
Right.
Not the brown dude next to me.
He's not.
And his kid definitely can't date the blue-eyed, blonde girl at the high school.
unidentified
Wow.
tim kennedy
That's not allowed.
joe rogan
So they basically created these little colonies.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Nazi colonies in South America.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Did you Google Colonia Dignidad?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Did you?
tim kennedy
You will have nightmares.
joe rogan
Dude, I'm freaking out right now.
tim kennedy
It's nightmares.
joe rogan
It's crazy how many people got away with it, that Joseph Mengele died on a beach with a hot Brazilian wife.
tim kennedy
I mean, that one hurts me, because he's a guy like me, just on the ops, because he's a special operations guy.
He was an SS. He was a physical specimen, especially for the time.
We didn't understand.
I mean, he was very early on into...
One of the first real Nazis.
Like, this isn't, okay, all of Germany's going this way.
The Chancellor is Adolf Hitler.
This is where we're going.
I kind of just have to go along.
And you see some of that in the 43, 44. Now it's okay.
We might be losing this war.
Now it's not so in vogue.
But when you've got guys in, like, 1939 that are talking eugenics and...
You know, higher calling for breeding and segregation early on.
You're like, eh, I don't like that guy.
I'm going to beat him to death with my hands.
unidentified
But he's massive, so it would be a pretty good fight.
tim kennedy
There we go.
joe rogan
Reform Nazi cult trying to...
What does it say, Jamie?
What's the full title?
unidentified
Full Nazi cult.
tim kennedy
So that's just a marketing thing.
Because it's still the same place.
joe rogan
Reformed Nazi cult trying to open its colony to tourism.
And where is this?
tim kennedy
That's in Chile.
I spent a lot of time there.
Right there.
They made a movie about it.
So that's current day.
Right there.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ.
That's so strange.
tim kennedy
It's freaking gorgeous, though.
I mean, it is Shangri-La.
Yeah, German flag flying.
unidentified
Wow.
tim kennedy
They've tried to hide the Nazi things they've had.
I had dinner right there.
Look at them all dressed up like Germans.
I know that guy on the left.
joe rogan
Do you really?
unidentified
Yep.
tim kennedy
What's up, bro?
We talked in the butchery.
joe rogan
There he is right now, in the jacuzzi.
tim kennedy
Hi.
Yeah.
So I had this guy with me, Mike Simpson.
He is a...
He works with me at Sheepdog Response.
He's a doctor.
He was a ranger that became a Green Beret that then went to medical school and then came back to special operations for the rest of the war.
And he's our director of training for Sheepdog Response.
He was with me.
He and I both speak Spanish when we were down there.
But they didn't know that he was a doctor.
And they didn't know that we spoke Spanish.
And they didn't know that our translator that looked very Chilean could also speak German.
Perfect German.
She translates for Porsche.
So they thought that they could have all these little conversations with the stupid, hairy-handed Irish guy hosts from the Tourism Channel, and they could get away.
Well, we understood everything they're saying.
joe rogan
What were they saying?
tim kennedy
So one of our tour guides was formerly a nurse in the hospital that they closed down, and we stole one of their little ID cards to get into that hospital, and we stole a bunch of documents of them documenting them torturing little kids.
joe rogan
In the hospital?
tim kennedy
In the hospital.
None of this made the air because there's so much litigation going on where all of these victims of Colonial Dignidad are suing Villa Bavaria.
joe rogan
And what time period are you talking about when they're torturing kids?
Like, when was this?
tim kennedy
60s to 90s.
joe rogan
And so this is essentially Nazis and the ancestors of Nazis carrying on those practices in secret.
Jesus Christ.
This isn't just people that got away with it and then their ancestors moved here and they evolved and changed.
tim kennedy
So what do you do with that place?
You saw the pictures.
That place is worth maybe a hundred million dollars and they bought that with Nazi money.
What do you do with that?
Where does that go?
joe rogan
Where does that go?
tim kennedy
I don't know.
Nazi money.
We're talking melted fillings from Jews mouths.
We're talking wedding rings off of Jews fingers.
They bought that land with that money.
And it's gorgeous.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ.
tim kennedy
And they have a German colony there.
I don't know.
I don't know what the right answer is.
joe rogan
I mean, how does Chile feel about it?
tim kennedy
Chile has been in a tough position because of the amount of power that they have had there.
unidentified
Nobody...
tim kennedy
So in the 60s, they were, at behest of the president, they were bringing in...
People that disagreed with the dictator, and they're torturing them, and they're getting that information and giving it back to the president.
Well, that went on for like 10 years.
joe rogan
So the Nazis were doing that for...
tim kennedy
Yes.
Okay.
unidentified
For, um...
tim kennedy
Oh my god, I cannot believe I remember.
joe rogan
Whoever the dictator was at the time.
tim kennedy
But I'm so embarrassed, I can't remember his name right now because it's right on the tip of my tongue.
Anyways, but that information, they also had.
So not only the information went back to the president that he could use against his rivals, but they also had it.
So, they know all the dirt about everybody.
They know who is having sex with who, who has a kid with who, who went to this prostitute place, who has a deal with the CIA, who's working with the Venezuelans, who's working with the Argentinians.
They have all that dirt because they gave it.
To the president.
They have it too.
So they had been untouchable politically for 30-40 years because they had so much power.
Because they had so much information.
Because they had so much dirt on every single high-ranking person in South America.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ.
tim kennedy
That's been a trip year for me.
From that show and then straight into Hard to Kill, the show for the Discovery Channel, from then deploying to Africa.
Like, this year, I don't even know.
I can't even...
joe rogan
How does that all work while you're still serving?
Like, how do you get the freedom to do all these different things after you reenlisted?
tim kennedy
So the Army will always get what the Army wants.
First of all.
joe rogan
But it's got to help them having you be so high profile and be such a great representative of the military.
tim kennedy
If you're listening right now, go to your local recruiter.
That's why.
But seriously, we are having special forces specifically.
We are going to have the biggest deficit of eligible, a pool, a population to select from.
Because you have to have a certain level of intelligence, a certain level of physicality, just to be eligible for special forces to pick from you.
That pool is the smallest that has ever been in history.
joe rogan
Why?
tim kennedy
Kids are playing video games.
They're not eating Cheetos.
They're less participation in sports.
I mean, if you could just go to a high school and look at a high schooler now compared to 20 years ago, it's a different thing.
joe rogan
Really?
tim kennedy
Yeah, we weren't like barely...
Getting kids past obesity 20 years ago.
Now, in a high school, if you walk into a classroom, half the kids are obese.
joe rogan
So you think this is just because they're sedentary?
Because they're playing video games and fucking around online all day?
tim kennedy
Well, it's not just, it's not me thinking.
This is us absolutely quantifiably saying we do not have enough people to pick from.
joe rogan
Right.
And that would be one of the best ways to really find out what the actual average health of viable males is, right?
tim kennedy
Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan
There's always going to be the best of the best that want to test themselves.
I mean, this is just always how it's been.
tim kennedy
Yeah, so we take a hundred.
Of that hundred, we only get six or eight.
But that's 100 people that go to Special Forces Selection.
That 100 that goes, they have to have a GT score.
They have to have scores high enough on the military entrance exams just to be eligible.
They have to have a PT score high enough just to be eligible.
So we can't even get that 100. And then of that 100, only 8 of them are making it.
So we are, this is to answer your question, how am I able to do these things, is I'm in a position where I can say, for the love of God, please get healthy, please walk to your recruiter's office, and please take a test to see if you're eligible, because we are just needing people like we've never needed them before.
unidentified
Jesus Christ.
tim kennedy
It's scary.
joe rogan
Wow.
Well, that's one of the best indications.
I mean, most people don't know.
People like me, I'm a 50-year-old father, taxpayer out there doing my show.
I'm not paying attention to what fucking high school kids look like.
I have no idea.
tim kennedy
Go to a Marine recruiter right now and be like, Hey, bro, how's your job right now?
And you just fight him from taking that pen and stabbing it into his own eye.
Because he just can't get...
Somebody that isn't smoking weed.
Somebody that can pass a PT test.
Somebody that can pass a tape test.
And then somebody that can pass...
What's a tape test?
We measure their neck and their waist.
And they can't even pass that.
joe rogan
So they're too fat.
tim kennedy
They're too fat.
joe rogan
Is the neck too little or too big?
tim kennedy
So if you have a big neck and a big waist, this is...
Because I have a big neck.
joe rogan
Right, but it's from working out.
tim kennedy
Yeah, but I have a tiny little waist.
So that gives me my BMI and my body fat.
They measure...
It's a pretty...
It's a gross measurement.
Height, weight, and measurement.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
And...
There's only like four things that we need for us to say.
It's harder to get into the military than it is to get into college.
That's absolutely true.
joe rogan
Not regular military, but special forces?
tim kennedy
No, regular military.
joe rogan
What?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Really?
tim kennedy
Yes.
It is not easy.
And then from that, we only pick combat arms.
And then of that combat arms, we only pick the top hundred.
joe rogan
How is it harder for someone to get into the military than it is to get into college?
I thought it was fairly easy to get into the military.
tim kennedy
I'm pretty sure anybody can go to college.
Anybody.
joe rogan
Well, you can go to community college.
tim kennedy
That's college.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
I'm not saying it's as easy to get into MIT. Right.
But anybody can go to any college that they want.
Not any college they can get in.
They can go to...
You know, local community college, and then two years there, they can go and get into the next, you know, the state school, and then from there, they can get a...
I mean, anybody can do that.
Right.
Well, you can't go to the military if you smoke weed.
You can't go to the military if you have bad eyes.
You can't go to the military if you're diabetic.
You can't go into the military if you have asthma.
You can go to college if you have all those things.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
You can't go into the military if your IQ is X number, depending on your job.
Well, you can still go to college.
You can't go into the military if you can't run a mile or two miles in this speed and do this number of push-ups and this many sit-ups.
I don't think any college has that requirement.
So, I mean, just in those seven things alone, we just X'd out 80% of our population.
joe rogan
Is there also a problem with people's attitude towards the military?
With young people?
tim kennedy
Yeah, a little bit.
joe rogan
Do you think it's mostly a physical issue?
tim kennedy
Yeah, that is way less of an issue.
The perception of the military is way less of an issue than us just having a qualified population for us to pick from.
I mean, it's really bad.
Where we're borderline freaking out about what we're going to do.
So an average Special Forces ODA is supposed to have 12 guys in it.
Right now, you're not going to find a team that has more than 10. And we only have 70% of our teams with 10. Yeah.
Thank God we didn't go to war with North Korea.
Thank God that war ended and that we're not dropping nuclear bombs on anybody because we're in a hurt locker for qualified.
joe rogan
Most people have no idea about this.
unidentified
No.
tim kennedy
It's scary.
joe rogan
Wow.
So this is one of the best ways to measure what's wrong with the way people are living today.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, forget about whether or not they want to go and serve.
The viable, quality candidates, it's the number of them that are even available.
tim kennedy
Is the lowest it's ever been.
joe rogan
What about high school athletics?
I mean, have they decreased?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Really?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
At the same rate?
tim kennedy
Very, very similar.
The participation in not...
So you can go and play for your...
The rec time, volleyball, but to get onto the varsity football team or the varsity volleyball team or the varsity track team, the number of people in percentage to the...
So if you have a thousand people, you had a hundred of them that were participating in those athletics.
All right, so we had 10%.
That number now is down to like 5% or 6%.
So the overall percentage per capita of the number of people participating in these sports has been consistently decreasing for the past 20 years.
joe rogan
Wow, 20 years.
And 20 years is essentially when the internet became a huge thing.
I mean, that's basically the same timeline.
unidentified
You're looking at like 94, 98. You see obesity going like this.
Wow.
tim kennedy
We've got bad food.
Our jobs are getting less and less physical.
The focus on what jobs people should have.
Everybody's been like, go to college, become an academic so you can be this intellectual that can go and do this job and then you graduate from college with a student loan and you have no job to go to.
Where there's this guy that needs welders.
But it's not cool to be a welder.
Don't do that.
Or to be a mechanic.
All these trade jobs that are just begging and pleading for...
They are sometimes physical, but they need people.
But it's not cool to do that.
I want to go to Long Beach State, or I want to go to UCLA, or I want to go hang out with a bunch of hot chicks at LSU. You know, the focus has been wrong for a while.
And that is evident in Special Forces selection when we don't have anybody to pick from.
We can't select.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Why don't we hear about this?
Is this something they're trying to keep hush-hush?
tim kennedy
It has been a problem because our community motto is the quiet professionals.
Mm-hmm.
That's our motto.
joe rogan
How do you fit into that?
tim kennedy
Yeah, I don't.
I mean, I get so much crap all the time.
But thank God, guys that really understand what I'm trying to do, they realize I don't shut up because I'm trying to help the regiment.
I'm trying the best ways that I can, the best ways that we can figure out with people way smarter than me helping me.
I was on the phone yesterday with some of the best and brightest in the Special Operations Recruiting Battalion about how are we going to fix this?
How are we going to market?
How are we going to develop interest?
And so thankfully they're smarter than me.
But we're almost screwing ourselves over because that is what...
How we live and that's how we would do our job.
If you read about us on the news, we failed.
You know, if you read about Army Special Forces doing something, we have done messed up.
You know, this is not the Navy SEALs.
We're not writing books.
You know, we're not talking about our exploits.
We didn't kill bin Laden.
This is us just doing our work and nobody's supposed to know about it.
But because of that, we now have a huge recruiting problem.
joe rogan
What's the approach to try to balance that out?
I mean, is there any strategies in play?
tim kennedy
Yeah, we talked through a bunch.
We're trying to figure out, I think...
Just getting the word out.
Letting people know.
One, we have to get that population healthy.
So, let's go specifically after athletes.
Let's go to a high school wrestling room and be like, hey fellas.
That's where I heard about it.
When I first heard about Army Special Forces was a guy in a really bad cut suit from probably like JCPenney's or Macy's walked in, you know, and he's like, hey guys, you ever thought about Army Special Forces?
I was like, I don't even know what that is.
Is that like the Navy SEALs?
He's like, yeah, check it out.
And he gave us this crappy car and walked away and I never saw him again.
But that planted that seed.
You know, and then 9-11 happens.
I was like, I know where I'm going.
I'm going to that dude that had that bad suit.
I'm going to find him.
Go work for that guy.
We're talking about my show, Hard to Kill.
It's not just Army Special Forces.
It's Marine Recon.
It's the Navy SEALs.
It's Air Force PJs.
Every special operations that has a selection process, they don't have a population to pick from.
They don't have that body, that pool of qualified applicants to select from.
So everybody is having the same problem.
So, let's do the Top Gun thing.
Let's show how cool it is to be an aviator.
Another job that we don't have enough guys of.
We don't have enough pilots.
joe rogan
So was this the motivation behind Hard to Kill?
tim kennedy
Part of it.
For me.
And the reason why I was allowed to do it.
We're going to have an episode every single season where I'm going to highlight some crazy, badass military job.
Doing things that...
Wait, you're going to jump off a Zodiac a mile from water.
You're going to swim in to walk four miles with a rucksack to then go do a raid on a bomb maker's house hanging off the side of a player with a machine gun.
So it's like freaking awesome, but this is the job.
So let's show them what this job is.
Let's show them how hard it is because it's hard.
This is not easy stuff that these guys do.
And hopefully...
Somebody will be inspired, and somebody will be like, alright, I'm gonna get off the couch.
joe rogan
So what is Hard To Kill?
Because I've heard of it, I've heard the name, but I really haven't looked into it.
tim kennedy
I've tried so hard to get Discovery Channel to let you show the first bit of it.
They won't?
They won't.
joe rogan
Why not?
tim kennedy
They said it's a rough cut, and they want everything perfect.
joe rogan
Okay, well when they get it perfect, send it to me.
We'll play it.
tim kennedy
So, we find a job.
That is inherently dangerous that people die in doing and is necessary for our way of life.
That's the first part.
We find whatever that is.
That might be a guy that changes light bulbs at the top of cell towers.
That might be somebody that's hanging off the side of a building, washing windows.
That might be an experimental test pilot.
That might be somebody that works on a bull ranch.
It might be a guy delivering antibiotics in Alaska to families that live out in the bush.
joe rogan
So it's not necessarily military jobs.
tim kennedy
No, it's jobs in general.
No, no, no.
I think we only do one military job in this first season.
joe rogan
I thought, oh, okay.
Because I have a very distorted perception of it.
I thought Hard to Kill was all about military.
tim kennedy
Nope, just one.
It's anybody, anywhere that does something necessary for our way of life.
And they die doing their job.
That's the show.
And I'm trying to highlight and I'm trying to pay homage and respect to these people that nobody thinks about or appreciates.
We walk on our Southwest flight and we're like, hey, can I get my beverage service and my peanuts?
Man, but in the 50s and 60s, the average life expectancy of an experimental test pilot was like four years.
You know, you have stories of these SR-71 pilots that are flying at Mach 2 and the whole entire thing just disintegrates around them.
One of the guys is killed instantly.
The other guy starts falling.
I think he's like 30,000 feet in the air, strapped to his chair.
So he can't even use his parachute?
He wakes up, he's blacked out, he can't look out of his visor because his visor's frozen, and he's just in a dead spin, falling at 200 miles an hour, and he lives.
joe rogan
How?
tim kennedy
Because he's amazing.
Jesus, how did he live?
Well, I recreate that whole entire thing in the show.
You did that?
I'm full stupid.
joe rogan
What the fuck is wrong with you?
tim kennedy
Yeah, I'm dumb, man.
joe rogan
You did that?
unidentified
Yeah.
What are you laughing at?
tim kennedy
I'll come over there!
joe rogan
He's very tense.
How did this guy survive?
tim kennedy
So, he wakes up.
He's in a free fall.
He's strapped to his chair.
His parachute won't deploy.
His visor's frozen.
He gets his harness off, and then he goes into the box, which is this free fall position, which kind of stabilizes.
Super impressive that he knew how to do that in the first place.
A lot of pilots never even practice free fall.
So, he's free falling, and First...
Let's remember this guy was a combat pilot in Vietnam and in Korea.
So this guy's been...
He's actually been shot down before.
So pretty heroic fella.
And he gets out of his harness.
He's in the box.
He deploys his parachute.
joe rogan
So explain the box again?
How do you do it?
tim kennedy
You're pretty much driving your hips down as a massive sprawl.
joe rogan
Okay.
tim kennedy
That's what it is.
It looks like you're driving your hips down in a massive sprawl.
Your arms are pushed back.
So air is evenly...
Flowing off of your body.
joe rogan
So it keeps you from spinning?
tim kennedy
It makes you stable.
So the air, the friction of the air off of your body makes you stop spinning in circles or tumbling overhead.
And he, because of his center sat...
He naturally had weight on his hips, which dropped his hips down, and then he just kind of stabilized, coincidentally, through his parachute, and then he landed on his wreckage, which was on fire.
joe rogan
Holy shit!
tim kennedy
Yeah, which we recreated for Me Too.
I got burnt pretty jacked up.
They put me inside of an experimental test plane, put aviation fluid on it, locked the cockpit, and then set it on fire with me inside of it.
joe rogan
Why do you do this?
Because that's not even, like, real.
Like, you're choosing to do this.
tim kennedy
Yeah, but they did it.
joe rogan
They did it.
tim kennedy
And they survived.
joe rogan
So you're doing it to recreate it in their honor?
tim kennedy
We have...
I mean, there are safety measures in place where, like, I only got...
I kind of got burnt, so my shirt got melted and I was able to get out of my seatbelt because my seatbelt melted.
joe rogan
You got out because it melted?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, fuck.
tim kennedy
And then I was able to...
I couldn't get the cockpit open because the cockpit had melted closed.
So I just tore the cockpit open.
But we were maybe one or two seconds away from the fire department just descending upon me to save my life and then take me to the hospital.
So the motivation is...
Everybody, I think, takes for granted all of the things that we have in our life, and there are some pretty heroic, courageous people that risk it every single day to do these jobs, to get our food, to get our oil.
Like, that stuff is pumped from the center of the ocean sometimes.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
There's a guy diving down, breathing helium and nitrogen at a few hundred feet, messing with gases that if he cuts just one millimeter too deep, he's going to get sucked into the pipe because of the negative pressure.
Guys that are flying a plane, there's no test dummy for flying a plane, right?
Some dude is going to sit inside of a plane sometime and be like...
joe rogan
Let's see.
tim kennedy
Fuck it.
Let's see if it works.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Think about the balls on that dude.
unidentified
Nobody thinks about that.
tim kennedy
So that's the whole point, was we wanted to show, and there's hundreds and hundreds of people that do these jobs that we just don't think about.
In the middle of a hurricane, like, how is your power still on?
There's somebody out there trying to fix it.
You're in the middle of a blizzard, and just feet and feet of snow are descending on those power lines, and you think they're just staying up there?
No, man.
There's somebody hanging off the side of that tower that's negative 20 outside, and he's trying to fix that stuff so your heater stays on so you don't freeze.
joe rogan
Are you going to get in one of those planes that flies into hurricanes?
tim kennedy
Yeah, man.
We do the dumbest stuff.
joe rogan
Are you going to do that?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
You are?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
How about putting me at the bottom of a mountain and setting off an avalanche?
unidentified
What?
tim kennedy
Yeah, let's do that.
joe rogan
Are you going to do that?
tim kennedy
We did that.
joe rogan
Oh, dude.
Don't die.
Don't die, Tim.
I like you.
tim kennedy
Take an R-22 helicopter in the Arctic Ocean and go and crash it into the ocean and then make me swim to an iceberg and live on the iceberg.
joe rogan
Did you do that?
tim kennedy
Yeah, I did that.
joe rogan
How long did you live on the iceberg for?
tim kennedy
I was too cold to count.
What I had to do once I got to the iceberg, I had like these tasks that I had to do for them to come and get me.
So once the helicopter went underwater and I had to swim down into the helicopter and the water was 33 degrees, and then I had to swim.
I think it was about a few hundred meters in this 33 degree water.
It was about 30 minutes total time in this 33 degree water.
I... Fortunately, I was able to bounce some ideas off of Kyle Kingsbury and Wynhoff and a bunch of guys from Onnit because they're pretty into that cold weather stuff, cold weather.
joe rogan
What does Kyle know about swimming in the ocean at 33 degrees?
tim kennedy
He knows about extreme temperature.
He does the contrast showers and the heart rate breathing.
I experimented with a bunch of it before I went and did the episode to make sure I didn't die.
joe rogan
How much time can you spend in that water?
I thought it was only a few minutes.
tim kennedy
That's what they said.
joe rogan
You were in there for 30?
tim kennedy
Yeah, I wanted to see how long I could do it.
So once I lost small motor function, so I couldn't move my hands, I could still swim.
So then once I could...
My arms went next, but I could still kind of do the egg beater kick from swimming in water polo.
And that lasted about another eight or nine minutes.
And then it was kind of like I was just trying to keep my head above water.
And then they sent in the rescue diver and pulled me out.
joe rogan
Fuck, dude.
tim kennedy
Yeah, and it took me four hours...
To get moving.
To be able to move again.
joe rogan
Four hours.
tim kennedy
They can't warm you back up, either.
So they put you in a sleeping bag with no heater, and you have to very slowly, because you can go into shock if you warm up too fast.
joe rogan
Oh, Jesus.
tim kennedy
Man, I should have been a golfer.
I should have been a golfer.
joe rogan
It wouldn't have worked.
tim kennedy
Tiger Woods is surging again.
You know, like, what the heck?
unidentified
But, yeah, you would have got bored.
tim kennedy
So there's a bush pilot, an Alaskan bush pilot, that, you know, they, like, deliver food to these people living out in the middle of nowhere in Alaska.
And he's flying.
An engine stops.
He's like, oh, that sucks.
So in autorotation is they still have a little bit of lift from just the friction of the blades.
So they kind of can control because the blades are still kind of like rudders.
joe rogan
Are you talking about a helicopter?
tim kennedy
A helicopter.
joe rogan
Okay.
tim kennedy
So they can somewhat control their descent.
So he finds an iceberg and he's like, oh, I'll go crash by that iceberg.
So he goes and crashes near the iceberg and has helicopters submerging and he dives into the submerging helicopter to get his survival equipment.
And then he swims over to the iceberg and he sets his kind of like shelter up.
And then he has to fight off polar bears for a couple of days.
He lives.
This dude survives.
And he was like the source for our Bush pilot episode was this one guy.
But there's hundreds and hundreds of stories of these guys crashing all the time.
So we just try to figure out what the job is, why it's hard, why it's dangerous, and then what is the worst case scenario?
What is the worst day on the job?
And let's see what that's like.
joe rogan
How did he fight off the polar bears?
tim kennedy
So he had a raft, like his flotation raft, and it was inverted, which he had turned into like a small igloo.
And he could hear the bears starting to come up to...
And it doesn't get dark there, depending on the time of the year.
So he only had like one or two hours of darkness, so he could still kind of see, and he could see the bears coming.
So he was sitting inside just holding super still, and they could just smell that something was off.
They're trying to figure out what it was.
And then he would stand up with his raft on his shoulders and be like, RUNNER! Banging on the big plastic-y raft thing.
And they couldn't figure out what it was because it was this 12x12 raft rising and running at them and with lots of noise.
And he was able to scare them away, I think, three times before he was finally rescued.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
No weapons.
tim kennedy
No weapons.
joe rogan
Oh, fucking Christ.
unidentified
Yep.
tim kennedy
I don't have those balls.
unidentified
God!
joe rogan
Well, you would if you were there.
You'd do whatever you had to do.
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
If you were there.
tim kennedy
Polar bears scare me.
joe rogan
They scare the shit out of me.
tim kennedy
Because they actively hunt us.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
They're one of the few animals.
I mean, that's all they do is eat meat.
Anything that moves.
tim kennedy
Largest carnivore on the planet.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
They're like, huh.
joe rogan
You ever see that video where they took a guy from BBC and they put him in a big giant glass box, like a plexiglass box, and put him out into the Arctic, and the polar bear came up and was trying to bite through the box and figure out how to get him?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
So he's inside the box filming it, and this thing can smell him, and it's just opening its mouth, and its mouth is as big as this fucking desk.
That's when you really get a perspective of how large these things are, and it's trying to bite into this box.
There it is.
Here's a guy.
So the thing comes up to him.
I mean, hey, this is the Klondike bar thing.
This is the guy who likes Coca-Cola.
No, so, giant super predator.
And it's trying to figure out how to get them.
tim kennedy
They're smart, too.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, they have to be.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So, he's got this...
tim kennedy
I would have checked that lock like 50,000 times.
joe rogan
I don't understand this box.
unidentified
Look how big that is!
tim kennedy
So, that box would have smelled like shit for me if I weren't there right now.
That's all you could smell in that box.
unidentified
Yeah, man.
joe rogan
It's such a strange task.
I mean, I don't know.
There's a boat behind him, I guess.
tim kennedy
That has a dude with me with a tranquilizer.
joe rogan
Hopefully, a rifle.
Yeah.
Look at that.
tim kennedy
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
He's trying to figure out how to get him.
It's a very disturbing video, and it...
Went on for a little while.
The thing left and came back and left and came back again and finally they got him out of there.
Fuck that.
tim kennedy
It's amazing.
joe rogan
It's a crazy animal.
tim kennedy
Yeah, we couldn't find any polar bears.
joe rogan
Did you want to?
tim kennedy
I did.
joe rogan
Were you going to try to scare him off that way?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
That would have ended really badly.
tim kennedy
But another poor decision in Tim's life.
The Discovery Channel, this is the most expensive insured show they've ever done.
joe rogan
I would imagine.
tim kennedy
And there are just some things...
We know shit took explosives, TNT, threw them from the side of a helicopter to cause avalanches.
That I'm in.
joe rogan
And so, do you have one of those inflatable suits that keeps you from getting completely compressed?
tim kennedy
Yeah, we tried that one time.
I definitely used that, and I think that saved me one time.
It kept me up on top.
So those things don't keep you from being compressed.
It keeps you on top.
Oh, I see.
a flotation device, a life preserver for the snow.
So it gives you more surface area friction, which rises you to the top.
You know, like when you have a big jar of pebbles and you shake them, the The biggest ones go to the top.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
That's all that's happening is you're trying to make yourself the biggest pebble to raise you to the top of this huge friction.
So because most people, they actually die of traumatic injuries during the avalanche, not from asphyxiation.
Really?
unidentified
Really?
tim kennedy
Even though when they finally put me in the avalanche, I was inside of the snow for 30 minutes.
That was the amount of time that the network would let me see if I could survive.
And I had a button.
If I clicked it every minute on the bottom of the minute, they would leave me in there for another minute.
So I stayed in for $29.59.
joe rogan
And so at 30, they were like, that's it?
That's all the time we allow?
tim kennedy
Yep.
joe rogan
Wow.
What was it like in there for 30 minutes?
tim kennedy
It was really cold.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
It was super cold.
It was dark.
It was hard to figure out which way was up.
So I figured out which way was up because I was able to like...
I took my snowboarding goggles and I put them over my mouth so the snow went...
So I'd initially have a little bit of...
A few breaths of air.
Because what happens is you get an ice...
seal around your face from you exhaling, melting it, and then it refreezes.
So then you have this cocoon of no fresh air coming in.
So I was able to, so I locked my hand inside of my helmet and I held my goggles over my mouth.
So I would have a little bit of air.
So then I was able to take that off and get it over my, so then I have a little bit of air here.
And that was like moving snow with my pinned hand to, but then I saw a drip of water drip off of my glasses at a 45 degree angle to my left.
And I was like, oh, up is that way!
That was like the best thing for my brain, to know which way up was.
joe rogan
That was the only way you could tell.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because you're just smashed in snow.
Wow.
That's a crazy feeling.
Like, you don't know where up is.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So up could be your feet.
tim kennedy
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
joe rogan
And you wouldn't even know?
tim kennedy
Nope.
So I just, gravity, watching that drop of water drip off of my snow goggles.
I was like, peace for my brain.
joe rogan
What if it went up?
tim kennedy
I would have pissed myself.
joe rogan
What if you like spit and you saw it go up?
You're like, oh no.
Oh no, I gotta go that way.
tim kennedy
Dang it.
Yeah, there's no moving.
You either get rescued or you freeze to death.
joe rogan
And so this is not a controlled avalanche.
They're just actually starting an avalanche.
tim kennedy
Yep.
joe rogan
How many of these episodes are you planning on doing, Tim?
tim kennedy
I mean...
joe rogan
Can we stop now?
tim kennedy
Nah, I think we got a bunch of people that the world needs to know about that we take for granted how we get our food, how we get our gas, how we get our...
unidentified
Wow.
tim kennedy
And I think I got a bunch of special forces recruiting slots I need to fill.
joe rogan
And this is the way to do it?
unidentified
I hope so.
joe rogan
You're almost killing yourself every week?
tim kennedy
I didn't...
I mean, I almost only died three times in this first season.
Um...
And if somebody's like, that's a cool job, or wait, the only way that Tim...
I mean, there are some times where you're watching me inside of a cockpit that's on fire, and the only way I got out is because I'm a savage.
Like, I'm just a beast.
I was like, I don't feel like getting burnt alive today, so I tear the cockpit open.
I think somebody at some point is going to draw the conclusion that I was able to do that because of physicality.
That if you're a fat person sitting inside of there, you would be burnt alive.
Maybe they get off their couch and they go and do something.
joe rogan
That is a weird way to motivate people.
tim kennedy
Any way is a good way.
I'll take it.
joe rogan
Whose idea was this for this show?
tim kennedy
That was my idea.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ, dude.
You're an unusual human.
tim kennedy
It's fun, though.
joe rogan
And how many of these episodes have you done?
tim kennedy
We have finished six.
joe rogan
And is that the entire season?
tim kennedy
Yeah, that'll be season one.
Comes out in July.
joe rogan
You excited about it?
tim kennedy
Yeah, I'm pumped.
joe rogan
So 50% of the time you almost died?
tim kennedy
Yeah, I mean that's gross math rounding around.
joe rogan
Okay, so there's the water one where you almost froze to death.
tim kennedy
Yep, that definitely.
joe rogan
And then the avalanche one where you lasted 30 minutes.
What was the other one?
Oh, man.
Worse?
tim kennedy
Yeah, it was less pleasant.
Like, I was a bullfighter for an episode.
joe rogan
Oh, dude.
tim kennedy
And not a bull rider, because they're insane, but the bullfighter is the guy that's on the ground, so when the bullfighter gets thrown, he's the bodyguard for the bull rider.
His only job is to take the hit Right.
crush whatever was on its back.
And that's where the bullfighter runs in to save him.
The PBR, the Professional Bullriding Association, those guys are the most selfless, courageous guys trying to protect those bullfighters.
Bullriders.
So I trained for a while and I went to the biggest rodeo in the nation and was bullfighter.
And I mean, this isn't one of those shows where people don't get hurt.
Like you see the inside of my body.
You see people get really, really, really jacked up and go to the hospital.
And like, does he have a punctured lung?
Is that guy going to live?
This is that type of show because there's no other way to do it.
The only thing, the only direction we had from Discovery was don't fake anything.
joe rogan
That's a great direction.
tim kennedy
It's a great direction.
joe rogan
I'm glad they came up with that.
Now, what happened with the bull?
tim kennedy
I got...
Owned, which is humiliating because they're not really smart animals.
joe rogan
Is that you?
tim kennedy
You're fast over there.
joe rogan
Tammy's a wizard.
I'd like to encourage all little boys and girls that follow me on any social media platform to stay in school, become engineers, architects, accountants, or anything that doesn't lead to permanent brain damage or need of an orthopedic surgeon.
It's you, legs up, and a bull launching you through the air.
tim kennedy
That was the training week.
joe rogan
So this was when you were trying to distract the bull?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
What kind of techniques do you use?
tim kennedy
Football running back stuff.
joe rogan
Just juke them one way and turn the other way?
tim kennedy
The thing is, you actually have to sell that body movement.
So your weight has to shift far enough where the bull is going to really believe that you're going to go to that direction.
I wish bulls were so...
I wish they were dumber than they are, because they're not.
Because if you fake them once one direction, they won't take it the next time.
They'll, they'll, you try to fake to the right, they'll already start going running to the left, so then you fake to the right, you go back to the left, and you're like, oh no, I have done, and it's at that moment that Tim realized he had fucked up.
You know, then he just gets, oh, I got destroyed.
joe rogan
And so when you get launched through the air by a bull...
tim kennedy
It's weird because it's weightless.
You know, it's just a second and you are completely inverted, no control over where your body is going because you didn't generate that energy.
But the other part of your brain is knowing that that bowl is going to try to turn as fast as it can and get you when you land on the ground.
Because that's when it's really good, is when you're down.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
So you're trying to keep track of where this bull is while you're through the air.
Like, okay, I gotta tuck my chin so I don't break my neck.
You know, hopefully I'm not close enough to the fence because the fence doesn't move.
The fence is metal.
You know, the ground is pretty soft.
I'd rather land on the ground than land on the fence.
The fence will mess you up.
Anyway, so that's...
joe rogan
And how'd you get away from the bull?
tim kennedy
I'm an athlete.
Not sure if you know that.
joe rogan
That's it.
tim kennedy
That's it.
joe rogan
Just athleticism.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Luck.
A little luck.
joe rogan
A little bit of luck that you didn't get stomped.
tim kennedy
No, so there are some real bullfighters in the ring with me that I think save my life every single time because I suck.
At the end of this show, people are going to look at this and be like, one, Tim is an idiot.
Two, Everybody that does this job, these jobs, has the biggest balls and are so badass.
Hopefully that's what they're going to get.
Because this isn't like a Tim Kennedy look cool show.
This is, um, that guy's an idiot and everybody else is pretty- Oh, dude!
joe rogan
That fucking picture!
Oh my god!
Oh my god!
Look at that picture.
tim kennedy
Notice that that's a different bowl.
joe rogan
So you did this more than once.
So this bull, he's got his feet up in the air, and his head is inches from you, and it's about to collide with you.
And there's no fucking way you got away in this situation.
There's no way.
That thing's way too close.
What is it like to just get launched by a 2,000-pound fucking meat vehicle?
tim kennedy
It's the other things that...
So, the...
We did, like, commercial fishermen as an episode.
joe rogan
Like Deadliest Catch?
tim kennedy
Yeah, just like that.
But, you know, those shows, in this episodic way, they really go into the personalities and the people that do these jobs.
And I think they really gloss over...
How hard that job is.
I mean, they're on this DEX for 14, 15 hours working a net pull to a net pull to putting out a net to next.
And then they go in and the net is out and they have 45 minutes to sleep before they have to pull the net back in.
And they do that for 28 days.
So they're getting like cat naps.
So then slowly their cognitive ability is starting to diminish and their physical capability is starting to diminish.
But then they're on a platform that is in 10-12 foot waves that's slippery, and the water is 38 degrees.
So everything about what they're doing is setting them up to die.
So again, those are great shows.
I love it.
Deadliest Catch.
There's a handful of those shows now.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
But I don't think it has ever gotten close enough to showing...
I mean, I always...
Man, I did that job for one day and I was like, I just need a break, dude.
joe rogan
I don't think there's any way you could really accurately portray it unless you did a 12-hour show.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, and showed you and then multiple 12-hour shows.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, if they did a live stream of you, that would be the way to do it, right?
Like through satellite feeds somehow, have an internet connection, showing you fishing for 12, so you could just tune in.
Here's Tim, still fishing.
I'm gonna go to sleep.
I wake up eight hours later, get coffee, get breakfast.
Let me check out Tim.
Look at Tim, still awake.
tim kennedy
One wrong step, one wrong knot.
joe rogan
And you gotta count on these other guys.
That are also exhausted.
tim kennedy
You have one second.
You have one second to realize where that person went.
If he's in the water, one second, and he's under.
You know?
joe rogan
Fuck.
tim kennedy
In 38 degree water.
With 12 foot swells.
And you've been out for 20 days.
joe rogan
And what kind of fish were you catching there?
tim kennedy
There, I think we were pulling scallops.
Those were scabs.
The stuff I was just pushing off.
We weren't even using any of those.
We were just pushing them back into the ocean.
What do you mean by scabs?
They're like little stingrays.
joe rogan
Oh.
tim kennedy
They'll chop them up for bait sometimes.
That's all the left stuff.
So the bucket to my left, that's all the fish that we had picked.
And this is the leftovers.
joe rogan
Whoa, that's an inefficient process.
That's crazy.
So all those things die, so you get what's in that bucket.
Oh, they're still alive.
tim kennedy
Yeah, those go back in the water.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
So what's in the bucket there?
tim kennedy
Scallops.
Clams.
joe rogan
Wow, how crazy is that?
All that stuff gets scooped up, and you don't want it.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
That's bizarre.
tim kennedy
Actually, I think a second after this photo was taken, I took a step, and I stepped on one of those things.
See, they kind of match when they're facing down.
Well, not when they're belly up, when they're white, but when they're brown and facing down.
It's the same color as the rust, the deck.
And I stepped on one that I thought was the deck.
And in my right hand right now, that is a...
It's a pike.
It's a spike with a nail sticking out the end of it.
That's what you use to sort.
And I step on this thing and I fly...
I mean, I swear my feet were all the way up at the top of that wall.
Five feet up in the air.
Just inverted.
Flying through the air with 12 foot swells in the sea.
unidentified
And...
joe rogan
Holding on to that spike.
tim kennedy
Holding on to that spike.
And I'm two feet, three feet from the edge of the boat.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ.
tim kennedy
These guys do it all...
Day long.
I hope you like that fish that you walk to the supermarket and pluck out at Whole Foods.
It got there somehow.
If it says wild caught, it's freaking wild caught.
joe rogan
We have a real problem with the disconnect from things like that.
Disconnect from food.
Disconnect from how difficult these jobs are.
Where's the fucking power?
How's the power going back on?
Somebody's out there.
Somebody's out there in that blizzard.
tim kennedy
I think that's one of the things that's wrong with society right now is everybody's just taking for granted everything about their lives.
They just want it easy.
They want it fast.
They want it quick.
That's why people are getting fat.
That's why they're going to the grocery store and getting the thing that's on sale.
That's why they're getting mad at guys like you that go and talk about hunting.
Because they just want the easy solution.
And truth be it, there isn't an easy solution that's the right solution.
Usually it's the hard way.
Usually.
Usually.
Yeah, there can be a smart way.
And the smart way sometimes is the hard way.
But everybody wants this quick fix.
Everybody wants to take a pill and they feel better.
That's not how it works.
You know, like you can't, man, you're suffering from depression and you've been having these thoughts.
Cool, I'm going to take a pill and I'm going to feel better.
While that might be a portion of the solution, how about you lose 10% body fat?
How about you get off the couch?
How about you go make out with your wife?
How about you go down on her for a couple hours, give her a bunch of orgasms, you know, and then have sex with her and then go to the gym.
Promise you're going to feel better after that.
You know?
Instead, I'm just gonna do...
I'm gonna have this easy solution.
And it just doesn't work.
So, I mean, I think for me, this show is hopefully an opportunity to give people...
It's not that easy.
joe rogan
We've made a weird society.
We've made a society where we've nerfed all the hard edges.
And we're trying to make it safer and safer every day.
And there's some things that are just messy.
They're not going to be safe.
tim kennedy
And by us making everything safer, it's making us weaker.
And every time that we've had a weak society...
We end up with tough times.
And then tough times make hard men.
Then hard men make good times.
Then good times make weak men.
Then weak men make hard...
You know, and this cycle just keeps going.
And right now we have weak...
We can't even...
Are we even allowed to say men?
joe rogan
There's some men out there.
tim kennedy
There are some, but I don't even know if we're allowed...
Like I just driving, driving here to your studio, I saw the Girl Scouts office is one block away and your neighbors that have no security cameras right back behind fries with their back door lodged open with, um, like all of that right here.
But more importantly, the Girl Scouts, which isn't even a thing anymore.
Now it's just the Scouts.
There's no Boy Scouts and there's no Girl Scouts.
There's just the Scouts.
And in a week, a half a million members of the Boy Scouts have left because you can't have just Boy Scouts.
You have to have just scouts.
joe rogan
Is that what's going on now?
Is that how they're doing it?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Yeah.
And a half a million scouts have left.
joe rogan
So what does that mean?
That if you go on these camping trips, the boys and the girls go together?
tim kennedy
Yep.
joe rogan
That sounds like a good idea.
tim kennedy
No, that's a bad idea.
joe rogan
Kids get raped?
unidentified
Yep.
tim kennedy
For sure.
It also changes things.
I don't know how I feel about...
I think women in the military should be able to go anywhere to include special operations if they meet the standard.
But...
When you have a girl present, it changes men act differently.
joe rogan
Yes.
tim kennedy
Period.
And it changes the chemistry of the team.
And when you're trying to raise men, when you're trying to rear boys and have them becoming men, and you're doing these, you know, you're taking them horseback riding, or you're teaching them knots, or you're, you know, showing them how to set up a tent, or how to purify water.
If there's a girl there, Right.
And while that's good and bad, it's bad if you're trying to have an opportunity to nurture elements that are very beautifully separate, equally for girls.
Like, can we teach Christina that bowling?
Absolutely!
Can we teach her how to ride a horse?
100%.
Take her hunting.
Should we do everything that every one of these boys should be doing?
I believe so, yes.
joe rogan
But if there's a boy in that mix...
tim kennedy
It changes things.
joe rogan
It changes things.
Yeah, that's why I've always been supportive of all-girl gyms.
I'm like, they should be able to have a fucking gym when no one's trying to bang them.
A hundred percent.
I mean, there's a lot of women that want to be able to go to the gym and not have somebody ogle them and stare at their ass while they're doing squats.
But all boys' gyms...
tim kennedy
You watched the title fight...
joe rogan
That get squirrely.
tim kennedy
...this last weekend?
joe rogan
Which one?
unidentified
Um...
joe rogan
Lomachenko?
Or...
Oh, that was beautiful.
unidentified
Amanda.
joe rogan
Amanda Nunes?
tim kennedy
Yeah, Amanda Nunes.
joe rogan
Yes, I did.
tim kennedy
Do you think...
If those were two, so at the end of the, in between the fourth and fifth round, when Raquel Pennington said, I want out, and her team said no, that it would have been different if it was two male fighters.
joe rogan
I think it would have been.
tim kennedy
I think it would have been as well.
Yeah.
One, I believe that had her team let her out, she would have regretted it the rest of her life.
The failure didn't happen by her team there in between the fourth and the fifth round.
It happened in preparation, getting her ready for that.
Because I think That...
Those words would never be uttered out of my mouth in the middle of the fight.
It would be my team begging and pleading for them to end the fight.
I don't know if there was a route for her to win that fight.
If there was a path to victory for her.
I don't think there was.
And I think she felt that.
But...
I think the journalists, the MMA media attacked her coaches unfairly.
One, because she's a girl.
I think that played a part in it.
Everybody's like, oh my gosh, this girl fighter in between four and five.
She's just a fighter, first of all.
And her coaches know her better than anybody.
I'm not defending what they did.
Or attacking them.
What I'm saying is, you're not on either side of that fence.
And you've never had your feet on that canvas and felt the fury and pain of defeat and the sweetness of success.
And the worst thing ever is regret.
joe rogan
You feel like she would have regretted it, even though you agree that there was no path to victory.
tim kennedy
Yep.
joe rogan
I think Amanda Nunez was, she was surging, she was destroying her, her nose was shattered, she was getting beaten down, and she didn't have anything left.
unidentified
True.
joe rogan
And so she's like, I want out.
You know, Big John McCarthy and I talked about this yesterday, and he feels that his, that the corner did a big disservice to her by letting her take a beating in that fifth round.
That every fight Take something out of you.
And some fights take more out of you.
And there comes a point in time where there's a tipping point fight.
And that that could have been the tipping point round.
That she might not ever be the same again.
And he was saying that, you know, you've got to understand that you only have a certain amount of holes you can punch in your ticket.
And if she, especially when you're talking about someone who's tough...
tim kennedy
But that ticket's a fight card.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
That's the ticket.
joe rogan
Yes.
tim kennedy
It's not, she's not a janitor.
joe rogan
Right.
But she can live to fight again.
Or be beaten down so badly in that fight that she's never the same physically.
tim kennedy
How many times have we talked about this with Robbie Lawler or Michael Bisbing?
joe rogan
But it might be the case with Robbie Lawler.
If you look at Robbie Lawler's last fight with Rafael Dos Anjos, he didn't really look like the Robbie Lawler of old.
Now, could that be because of Dos Anjos?
It very well could have been.
Dos Anjos is a beast.
No question about it.
tim kennedy
Is it our business to tell him when he's done?
joe rogan
It's not.
It's not our business to tell him what he's done.
tim kennedy
It's his ticket.
joe rogan
But it's his ticket.
What if he wants to quit?
If he says he wants out, like she said she wanted out.
There's certain times in a fight where someone says they want out.
Here's a good example.
Do you remember Jerry McClellan when he fought Nigel Benn?
This is the fight that put him into this catatonic state and bleeding on the brain.
People were criticizing him because he took a knee.
People were saying, like, the commentators were saying, what is he doing?
Why is he doing this?
Well, he fucking knew something was wrong.
And he took a knee and then blacked out and then eventually had bleeding on the brain.
Like, Gerald McClellan was a beast.
I mean, a world champion boxer.
But he knew something was wrong.
Now, if Raquel Pennington had said...
I want out.
And her coach said, no, go back in there.
And then she goes back in there and collapses and has bleeding in the brain and winds up in the same state as Gerald McClellan.
Then people would be going crazy.
I know your point because that's the kind of fighter you are.
That's the kind of fighter you were.
You were a die on your sword guy.
That's what you always did.
And you had some fucking amazing fights because of that attitude and that never quit mentality where you were in there to win or die trying.
tim kennedy
God, I'm so scared of that regret, though.
joe rogan
I understand it.
tim kennedy
You know, and I don't know if all the things that I have to, because I have, you know, like mentally checking out the end of the Romero fight.
You know, I regret that to the day I die that I didn't stay because I'm looking at Dana anticipating my money.
I'm already looking at him and be like, you know you're going to pay me for this one.
This is one hell of a fight, right?
Thinking about me destroying Michael Bisbee.
That's what I was already thinking about.
I already left the ring.
So I have that regret that nags at me.
I can't even imagine what the regret would be like for me not to go out.
I don't have post-traumatic stress, but all the things that nag at me, it's the things that I didn't do and it's the regrets.
joe rogan
But aren't those things what make you better?
The realization of the mistakes that you made, those are the lessons.
And that's what makes you a stronger person.
You don't get stronger by doing the right thing every single time.
Part of getting stronger is by fucking up and having this horrible feeling that you fucked up and realizing you never want to feel that again.
tim kennedy
Yes.
That's how muscle and that's how a brain works is you damage it and it comes back stronger.
I think that's how the human condition is to a degree.
But the hurry to failure, the rush to failure or...
Yeah, that's how you get better, but I want that point where I'm going to fail to be so unattainable and so hard to reach, where if I ever reach that point of failure, and I mean, every time I go to the gym and I'm training on it, and I want you to come and hang out with us one day if you ever make it back to Austin, and we try and find the quitter in each other every single time that we train.
Every time.
That's what we say.
We even have workouts called Find the Quitter.
And we have guys, professional athletes from all sorts of sports come in and join us.
And they will quit in the middle of one of our strength and conditioning workouts.
And it's because my little group, Shane, Juan, myself...
We are looking for that failure, and it's getting so hard to find.
Just like shooting.
I'm looking for that miss, because that miss is that opportunity that I'm going to get better.
I'm looking at that rep that I just can't get, or that 530 mile one more time, because that's going to be the opportunity for growth.
So I agree with you, but it also has to be hard to reach, because failure should never be easy.
joe rogan
So you think her being able to say, I want out, that she still had enough left to keep going?
tim kennedy
I don't know.
I think only her and her corner are gonna know that.
joe rogan
I would say that I agree with you, except I have so much respect for her.
And I think she's one of the toughest girls in MMA. One of the toughest people in MMA. She's a fucking animal, Raquel Pennington.
She really is tough.
I'm a big fan of hers.
When someone like her says, I'm out, I'm done, I just think she's beaten down so badly.
That she doesn't physically have the ability to fight anymore.
And then she went out and proved that in the fifth round and took a ferocious beating.
But she agrees with you.
She agrees with her coaches.
She agrees.
She says now after the fact that her coaches were right and that she had hit this moment of weakness.
tim kennedy
If I sit on the stool and I told my coaches, I want out.
You know, I got Greg Jackson, Winkle John, Nick Palmashano all sitting there and they let me out.
I would hate them forever.
I would.
I would regret my decision and I would be mad at them forever.
And they're some of my best friends now.
joe rogan
What if, right after you said that, you collapsed and they took you to the hospital and they had to open up your skull to alleviate pressure on your brain because you were bleeding internally and your legs stopped working and you're in a wheelchair like Gerald McClellan trying to relive the past through distant, foggy memories.
tim kennedy
That would be less than ideal.
joe rogan
Yeah, that would be less than ideal.
tim kennedy
For sure.
joe rogan
Well, I understand what you're saying.
It's like the balance of the physical limitations of the human body and then the limitations of the mind and the mind's willingness to find a way out.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which brings me to the one thing that I wanted to get to before we leave this is waterboarding.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And this is something that came up because you were defending...
What is her name?
Gail...
tim kennedy
Gina.
joe rogan
Gina.
What is her name?
tim kennedy
Haspel.
joe rogan
Haspel.
And she is the person that was being appointed to lead the CIA. And there was a bunch of people that were saying that she shouldn't be because she advocated torture.
And you, to defend her...
Decided to get waterboarded.
tim kennedy
We've actually been talking about this for the past hour and a half.
We've been talking about the slow erosion of the human condition.
Us getting softer and us getting weaker and us nerfing the edges and finding the easy outs and the easy solution.
The conversation of middle ground, finding a way that we can communicate with people and have a discussion.
So we've been having this discussion for the past 90 minutes.
And what I have is a bunch of people that are saying what something is, but they don't know what that is.
Man, I know what torture is.
I've seen it in Africa.
I've seen it in South America.
I've seen it in the Middle East.
I've seen it on almost, I'm pushing 20 trips overseas in a military capacity.
A handful of combat deployments, you know, from looking for poachers, human traffickers, drug cartel, kind of piracy.
The things that I have done, like, you want to talk about knowing intimately what torture is?
I fucking know what torture is.
Pouring water on somebody's face is not torture.
If you starve them, if you beat them, if you isolate them, if they're there for, you know, you're the only getting, yes, we can start adding things onto it.
But the thing that was the most irritating was everybody's just throwing out this, let's talk about morality, and this woman is immoral to be in this position.
I remember people jumping to their deaths on 9-11 because they didn't want to get burnt alive, right?
And then I saw a guy on his knees and have his throat slit open by somebody pulling his hair back and sliding that knife across his throat.
That was one of the guys that she interrogated.
Now, I'm not saying two wrongs made a right, but she interrogated them to get questions out of them to try to save more Americans.
The intent was to try to save more lives.
They say, okay, well, if it's not that bad, Then, why did it work?
And this is why.
This is what nobody understands.
And it's because they can't understand the difference between the easy way and the hard way.
It's because these people that we were waterboarding are cowards.
They were pussies.
They were impotent little bullies their whole entire lives.
If I put you on that waterboard, I could waterboard you for days.
You have your moral convictions and you would never change.
Because you believe in what's right and wrong.
And that's a great and beautiful thing.
They're not you.
They are pieces of shit that throw acid on little girls, that fly planes into buildings because it's capitalist.
That's who these people are, and they're only tough when they're surrounded by 60, 70 other of their friends.
But you take one of them away from that, and you put them in a position where they're powerless, and that's what waterboarding is, they're powerless, and they cave, and they cower in seconds.
I don't need to drive a nail through their hands.
I don't need to pull their teeth out.
I don't need to take a drill bit and drive it through their fingernails.
That's torture.
This is us pouring water on a coward's face and they freak out.
And people can't understand that because they can't understand what these people are.
They're animals.
These aren't beautiful religious people that are trying to do the best thing for the families.
These people were the worst of our kind.
These were the Nazis of the 1940s.
But this is the current version of it.
These radical fanatics that are doing anything for any reason to hurt anybody so they can feel better about themselves.
And you take them out of that power.
You take them out of that control.
You take them out of that opportunity where they can be the bully.
And they're just shadows of themselves.
And then they give you everything that you need.
And what you need is an opportunity to save more lives.
joe rogan
Well, there's two things that were discussed about this.
One, that your situation that you were in was not in any way similar to the situation they were in because you were doing it with your friends.
You knew you were going to be okay.
You willingly did this.
The whole process was very controlled.
You weren't being held by people who spoke a different language in a country that hates you.
It's a situation where you knew you were safe.
So you could relax yourself and calm down and tolerate it to the point where you knew that you would be okay.
unidentified
Yep.
tim kennedy
And what was the other side?
joe rogan
The other side is, if torture works, isn't that the best form of torture?
You're going to be okay.
I mean, if torture does work, and I don't know if torture works, I've never been tortured, I've never been around torture, and I know there's a debate in both ways.
tim kennedy
Torture doesn't work.
joe rogan
It doesn't work.
tim kennedy
It doesn't work.
joe rogan
So that's not torture.
tim kennedy
No.
joe rogan
So you feel like that works, but torture doesn't.
tim kennedy
So I think, maybe we're arguing about vernacular and verbs.
joe rogan
Well, you're forcing someone to do something they don't want to do, and you're freaking them out.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're doing something physical to them.
tim kennedy
So, I think we just have to define torture.
If it's me doing something to somebody that makes them uncomfortable is torture.
I mean, me asking a pointed question at somebody in an interrogation room down at LAPD could be torture.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
You know?
joe rogan
If you smack them in the face, does it become torture?
tim kennedy
Yeah, is that torture?
Right.
What if I hit them with a phone book?
joe rogan
Maybe the problem is the word.
Maybe the problem is defining the word.
I mean, they called it enhanced interrogation techniques.
If you're trying to get information out of someone that would save American lives, it seems to me, I may be ignorant, but waterboarding seems to me to be one of the most humane ways to do it.
tim kennedy
I agree with that.
joe rogan
You're not going to do any permanent damage to the person.
It's not like what they did to John McCain when he was a prisoner in Vietnam.
That disturbed the shit out of me when that guy was on Fox News and he called him Songbird McCain.
Because he was saying that torture worked on McCain.
How could you stoop like that?
How could you do that?
You know what that guy's been through to humiliate him and humiliate yourself by taking that position on television like that.
It was so disappointing.
tim kennedy
About usable information.
We're questioning, and if you cross that threshold of torture, where you are doing damage, physical damage, where they'll tell you anything, that's not usable information.
Right.
You're gonna say that you've been, you know, dating your producer for, you know, seven years, and secretly, like, I could get you to say anything under the right conditions.
That doesn't do any good.
joe rogan
Because you just want to stop the pain.
tim kennedy
Yeah, just anything to make it stop.
That's not what was happening here.
And when we start talking about morality, if they're saying, okay, if this is a moral act, then, okay, does this make me and all of my friends that have done all sorts of, in some cases, terrible things, are we now a moral people?
Because we did it in the interest of protecting our country and serving our country and providing protection for our freedoms.
And I know those are cliche phrases that people grab onto, and I don't want to, but By extension, throwing and lobbing those accusations at her extend to me and to the things that I've done.
And I think I'm a very moral person.
And I try to be...
Good person in every way I can imagine.
I'm not perfect.
I'm not but I try and The politics of Bleeding over and misusing words manipulating everything just so it fits your agenda But nobody's in the middle of ground.
Nobody's agreeing and nobody has the best interest at heart and that's the people like the best interest should always be serving the people and None of them are doing that.
They only care about What is going to get them re-elected?
Or what's going to give them more power?
What's going to give them more clout for the next vote?
What's going to give a little handout from the president?
Whatever games that happen on the beltway, that was an example of that in the most...
Horrible of ways because it came down to human lives.
It came down to somebody that had been serving their country since the 80s in the best way that she knew how, in the ways that were legal for her to do it, and everybody else just manipulating the narrative to fit their agenda.
When I'm just sitting here being like, How about the people and how about freedom?
Who's fighting for us?
Are you guys just going to keep bickering about this?
So me strapping myself to that board, I'll tell you it's harder.
Do what's easy is to lay there strapped and have somebody put water on your face.
Do what's hard?
What I did to Steven Crowder Watch his hands where he'd reach up and pull.
He couldn't take it.
He would pull the rag off his face.
See how many times I pulled the rag off my face?
Not once, right?
Every single time I said, no, no, pour longer.
No, no, use the hose.
Use the bucket.
Right now you're at a two.
I need you at an eight.
No, I need CIA interrogation, friends, right?
And I'm sitting there willingly with my hands, with the sensation of me drowning as that water's running into my sinuses, showing.
That was intentional.
I understand people are like, oh no, he was safe, he wasn't even tied down.
I did that to demonstrate how a man of resolve can do it effortlessly, and how it's not torture.
Because I could willingly lay there with my hands free to pull the rag off at any juncture.
But I didn't.
I just sat there and I asked for more.
joe rogan
I understand that.
But I also understand the position that people take where they say, you knew you were safe.
And so this is why you had this resolve.
You're not in enemy soil, being interrogated by ISIS, being strapped down by them, where you didn't know what was next.
If you got through this, what would be next?
tim kennedy
Let's say Rachel Maddow from MSNBC, because we agree on so much.
She's like, hey, I want you to come onto my show.
I'm going to bring in five CIA interrogators, and we're going to do it live.
You're in control of nothing.
Do you think the result would be any different for me?
joe rogan
It's not the same because you're on a television show and you're still...
Americans are going to do this to you.
You haven't been captured.
You're not an enemy soil.
You're not being spit on by ISIS. So how far do we have to go?
You have to kind of be...
I know.
The person who's really captured is really captured.
It's not a game.
It's like if you get choked out in the street, you can't tap out.
If you get in a physical fight to the death of someone and they take your back, you can't tap out.
In this situation, you know you can tap out.
You know that even if it's CIA interrogating you and they're yelling at you, there's a part of your brain that knows I'm on Rachel Maddow's show.
They don't kill soldiers on Rachel Maddow's show.
tim kennedy
This is true.
So I don't know how I could better have illustrated.
joe rogan
I think you did a fantastic job.
I think the problem lies in it's impossible to really recreate it without you being an actual prisoner of war.
tim kennedy
Yeah.
Do you know what we do?
Reverse the roles.
We're talking about snatching these guys from their bomb-making facility and whisking them to Abu Ghraib and pouring water on their face.
What happens to me and my friends when we're captured?
Are we waterboarded?
joe rogan
No.
tim kennedy
No.
No, I'm not saying that what they do to us makes what we do to them right.
What I'm saying is...
joe rogan
It's better.
I'm saying it.
It's better.
I mean, that's what I was saying before.
If it is torture, if you want to use the word torture like we'd use the words drugs, right?
Drugs are coffee and it's also heroin, right?
They're all drugs.
Caffeine is a drug, right?
tim kennedy
Yeah.
joe rogan
Torture.
If you're just going to say torture, I'll take that torture every day.
tim kennedy
If that's what that is.
joe rogan
Yeah, because even if it sucks.
tim kennedy
Yeah, I'm going to be burnt alive.
I'm going to be slowly, carefully, methodically, painfully murdered.
Yeah.
That's my only option.
There is never any other option if I got captured.
joe rogan
There's no moral equivalency.
I think we can both agree.
There's no, I mean, between us and them, there's not.
But here's the thing.
McCain himself said that she shouldn't be appointed because she willingly participated in torture.
He said that.
What did you think about that?
tim kennedy
I, one, respect his opinion.
The things that he has done, whether we agree on things Is irrelevant.
His resume speaks for its spell.
joe rogan
I agree.
tim kennedy
And I think very few people could speak to torture better than him.
joe rogan
I agree with that as well.
tim kennedy
So, him coming from that position and saying that she isn't eligible to serve...
It's a very powerful statement.
I also feel that I'm pretty intimately familiar with torture and that I understand the full spectrum of what somebody can do selflessly for their country and selfishly for their own satisfaction as a psychopath.
Like Zarkawi's enforcer that would go around and kill people in front of their own family members and carried around a battery-powered drill.
I saw that.
We tracked him.
So...
I also know that when she was doing all of these things for her whole entire career, one, you have to look at the context of the time and what was happening.
And when she did every single one of those things, they were authorized techniques.
They were encouraged.
They were successful in some degrees, to some degree.
And so she was trying to do the best that she could with the, in some cases, limitations that she had.
And I think that is a trait that I want in somebody leading the CIA. That is that they're going to do the best that they can with what they have and what they're allowed to do and I like that.
I'm also a bulldog.
I realize that.
joe rogan
But this isn't someone who's talking about this in the comfort of a boardroom.
This is someone who's dealing with it in a time of war, and you're dealing with some of the most horrible people that we've ever experienced that are making these videos of cutting journalists' heads off and sending them to their families.
I mean, this is really what we were experiencing.
When people were deciding to use these enhanced interrogation techniques, this is what they were up against.
This isn't something you can discuss in a classroom and get a full sense of the tone and what was happening in these people's lives.
tim kennedy
9-11 was the tip of the iceberg.
When that happened, there were hundreds of other plans to do similar things.
That one was just successful.
They had been trying others, and they have tried others since.
Whether it's a shoe bomb, whether it's a Paris train, whether it's a San Bernardino bombing, whether it's a garbage truck in France.
Or London Bridge.
They have consistently been trying to do that and duplicate and replicate that.
The reason that it hasn't happened again to that scale, to that level, is because of the uncompromising selflessness of heroes trying to protect Americans.
Now, I don't want to go into what is the greater good?
Okay, are we losing morality?
I mean, that's a rabbit hole that we could talk about forever, but Man, I just want to preserve life.
joe rogan
Why do you think that concept is so hard for people to grasp?
tim kennedy
Because it's scary.
joe rogan
Well, not just that but the concept that the reason why this hasn't happened more often is because of these people doing the hard work Why is that so hard for people to understand and appreciate?
tim kennedy
They can't even understand hard work.
I just made a goddamn TV show just so they could see for the first time that people work hard so they can have food.
They can work hard so they can have oil and they can have power.
Like, people...
Man, look at a post...
When I don't have a shirt on, everybody says, man, Tim's loving being off USADA. I've looked the same since I was 19 years old.
I have looked exactly like this with the same 8-pack, with the same muscle definition since I was an 18-year-old kid.
I don't even know how many times I've been tested from the military, for USADA, to different events.
I've been clean my whole entire career, but nobody can, in their mind, they can't understand to get from here to there is hard work.
No, there has to be an easier way.
It has to be steroids, or it has to be this, or it has to be that.
It's the same way.
They're protected and they're safe, but they can't grasp the idea of the hard work that it took to keep them there.
joe rogan
I don't even think they're thinking that deeply into it.
I think they're just talking shit.
I think people see you, you look jacked, like, steroids!
I don't think there's that much thought involved in that.
tim kennedy
But I think it's the same lack of thought.
It's the same lack of consideration of what it took for us currently to be safe.
And what it still takes for us to be safe.
That's the departure.
That's the break in the thought process is they just want the easiest way and they don't want to even believe that this hard way is the way that actually has happened.
joe rogan
What is the alternative?
What's the alternative suggestion?
Instead of enhanced interrogation techniques, waterboarding, instead of letting the CIA do what it's done up until now, what is the alternative?
I mean, what has anybody offered in, you know, in response to that?
Like, instead of doing it that way, do it this way.
tim kennedy
I mean, now we're just leaving them in...
joe rogan
Nothing!
tim kennedy
We're leaving them all be great for how long?
Years?
unidentified
Years?
tim kennedy
You know, it's like now they're in perpetual purgatory for eternity.
There is no other solution.
Nobody's presented one.
They're just complaining about the options.
joe rogan
Exactly.
But that's the point.
No one said, look, the CIA's done a terrible job.
This is the way to do it right.
They're just saying, don't torture people.
tim kennedy
And I agree with that.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Don't shoot people with paintball pellets.
Don't shoot them with bullets.
Hit them with rubber bats.
Don't hit them with...
What are they saying?
What are they saying?
Do you think part of the problem is the vast majority of the population will never truly understand combat?
They'll never truly understand what people are capable of in the worst case scenario.
tim kennedy
God, I hope so.
I mean, I hope that 99% of this population never has to see any of the things that we've seen.
Otherwise, I've failed.
joe rogan
Do you think that maybe it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to force people to have some sort of mandatory service, whether it's mandatory service in...
The Coast Guard or whether it's the Peace Corps or whether it's the military, just some service of your country for a predetermined period of time, like they do in Israel, like they do in South Korea, like they do in several other countries.
tim kennedy
Yeah, I would love that.
joe rogan
Do you think that that would fix things?
I think it could help.
Or at least give people an understanding of what's required.
Like, send people to Afghanistan for six months.
Let people understand, like, holy shit, like goddamn Kansas is pretty fucking badass, isn't it?
tim kennedy
How about you send them to El Paso?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tim kennedy
Have them work them down there on the border.
joe rogan
Go to Juarez.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, understand that the world is not San Francisco.
There are dark places.
And you could see that on CNN all you want.
tim kennedy
Look at it on RT. Until you can smell it.
unidentified
Right.
tim kennedy
Until you live it.
I have to take these pills every single day, which give me the shits.
Otherwise, I get malaria.
joe rogan
Right.
tim kennedy
Are all these people walking around, are they taking these pills?
Oh, they're not.
Some of them have...
Having that reality sink into them.
I'm going to eat that goat, and I have to pull the pieces of hair out of my own mouth.
That's the reality for the majority of the world.
I would love for somebody to force everybody to have a taste of hard work.
joe rogan
Well, everybody wants something free, right?
They want the government to do many things for them, provide services and do things for free.
But the government is essentially just a group of us.
tim kennedy
A group of bad versions of us.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't want anybody telling me I have to go do something.
I don't want anybody telling me I have to go serve somewhere.
But I don't think it's the worst option to get people...
If we really hit a pivotal point where people have such a complete lack of appreciation and understanding of what it takes to make the world work correctly...
That might be one of the only viable solutions, is some sort of mandatory service for some agreed-upon period of time.
tim kennedy
Especially when you're young.
I think a warfighter should always and only be volunteer.
I agree with you.
But man, serving your country for two years, working on the border, working in a homeless shelter, humanitarian aid, working in a hospital.
I mean, all the different things that we could do with all of these people that would have their eyes opened.
joe rogan
I think it would strengthen people, too.
tim kennedy
It could.
joe rogan
I think it could.
tim kennedy
Their character, their soul, their bodies, their minds, all of it.
joe rogan
Yeah, just being forced to understand that there's a lot of messy work that's required to make this thing work correctly, and we all benefit from it.
But a lot of us benefit from it and just sit at home and play video games and eat Cheetos and do nothing.
And you still complain about Mexicans sneaking in.
It's fucking crazy.
tim kennedy
Everything that we want.
Whether it's like success or food, good looks, a beautiful girlfriend, a beautiful boyfriend, all of that is always just on the far side of hard work.
Everything.
joe rogan
I don't know, there's some dudes that are never going to get a hot chick.
You work all day.
There's some shit rolls of the dice out there genetically that's just never going to pan out.
tim kennedy
Everything I've ever wanted has always been, and everything I've ever had, everything I've ever gained, every Bit of who I am has always been on the far side of hard work.
Blaine Armstrong and I were talking and arguing about performance enhancing drugs.
I fought for two world titles and I lost two world titles.
He won seven.
joe rogan
But he was in the dirtiest of dirty sports.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean...
tim kennedy
And he's like, doesn't Tim Kennedy, world champion, doesn't that sound better?
And yeah, it does.
It does.
But I would have lost everything because everything I've ever had has been from hard work and that would have been easy.
joe rogan
Is he trying to justify his own existence, though?
I mean, what's happening there?
And also, it's a different sport.
You know, it's just a different thing between...
No one gets hurt if you take EPO and you run your bike faster.
No one gets hurt.
If you're on something and it allows you to beat someone's brains in better, and you walk away from a title knowing that you cheated but the guy you beat was natural, that, to a guy like you, is a torture.
You're gonna be in prison the rest of your life with that thought bouncing around in your head.
That's not the same thing.
It's just not the same thing.
tim kennedy
Guys like Vitor Belfort, who failed multiple tests, were world champions multiple times.
joe rogan
Sort of.
He really only won once against Randy, and it's because Randy got cut.
Remember he got that crazy eye cut?
And he won the tournament when he was 19, but even then he was sauced up.
tim kennedy
So, he still feels like a world champion.
To him.
I would never want that.
I'm not rationalizing it.
joe rogan
But he paid the price though.
tim kennedy
Yeah, he is.
And he will pay the price.
joe rogan
But I mean, he paid the price physically.
You look at the transformation between TRT Vitor that knocked out Luke Rockhold with the wheel kick and Michael Bisping and Dan Henderson.
He was a fucking monster.
And then the deflated...
Version of him where his body, his endocrine systems failed, he doesn't produce testosterone anymore, can't take a punch anymore, he doesn't look even remotely similar to what he used to look like.
tim kennedy
It's, um...
joe rogan
Look at the difference between him and then look at Yoel Romero, okay?
Yoel Romero is 40, 41 years old.
tim kennedy
Yeah, he looks the same.
joe rogan
He's older than Vitor, and he's fucking jacked.
Obviously, you're dealing with significant genetic advantage.
And Yoel said that when he was on the podcast, you know, it was a great podcast.
I don't know if you saw it, but Joey Diaz translated for him back and forth, and then he spoke Spanish, and then Joey translated it to English.
But he said, if you go to Cuba, it's like regular people, regular people that you see, bus drivers, jacked.
He's like, you're dealing with a phenomenal gene pool over there.
tim kennedy
Baseball players that come out and they touch the ball and it goes over the fence.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, they're freaks.
tim kennedy
Sprinters.
joe rogan
Listen, this is the dark...
Dark aspects of the slave trade.
I mean, this is what you're dealing with, the best of the best, the strongest, most athletic, the ones who can work the hardest.
Those are the ones they wanted.
I mean, that is essentially a big part of the gene pool that is Cuba.
Then you deal with the decades and decades of extremely high-level athletic performance with all these different sports and all these different programs where they develop the very best athletes in their area.
I mean, they just, the wrestlers, the boxers, the judo players.
I mean, phenomenal athletes.
And the gene pool is just outstanding.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
The, um...
Hector Lombard, another physical example, but looking at Vidor's body shrink and UL stay the same, mine stay the same.
What do you think the heart, not the actual beating cardiovascular system, but like the soul of Vidor, he visibly looked deflated.
doug stanhope
In every one of his fights post USADA. He knows he's going into that in a compromised state.
joe rogan
So when he was going into it, when he got tested, one of the reasons why the whole testosterone placement therapy got eliminated is Vitor got tested randomly and he was off the charts.
To the point, like superhuman levels of testosterone.
They're like, what in the fuck are you doing, man?
Like, you have this massive advantage and massive confidence advantage and just physically looks like a demon, right?
When that's gone...
Now you're less than a regular man.
tim kennedy
Physically and mentally.
joe rogan
Physically and mentally.
Because you're tired all the time.
Your body's tired.
You're not producing good levels of testosterone.
He talked about it openly.
They tested his testosterone.
It's like the testosterone of a 70-year-old man.
And he's fighting in a cage for a living at a very high level.
unidentified
I don't know.
tim kennedy
The...
I still think it comes down to hard work, I think.
joe rogan
It certainly does, but all the hard work in the world, if you're built like, you know, fucking Kevin Smith, no disrespect, Kevin, I love you.
You can work as hard as you want.
Yeah, just fucking Yolo Romero's gonna pound your face into the dirt every time.
tim kennedy
But Kevin Smith is a millionaire that is massively successful in what he wants to do, and that dude works hard.
joe rogan
Super smart that he didn't go into cage fighting.
tim kennedy
Yeah, and he works hard.
joe rogan
Yes, he does.
tim kennedy
You go all the way back to the beginning when he's writing scripts and he's doing stand-up comedy, that dude was the first there, the last to leave.
And then his success is unquestioned.
joe rogan
Yeah, no, I agree with you 100%.
He most certainly worked hard, but I'm talking about genetics.
Francis Ngannou has freakish genetics.
I mean, you know, obviously Stipe Miocic also has very good genetics, still a giant person.
But the genetics that Francis has in comparison to the average person, you can work all you want.
You're not competing with that.
There's some people that just get a shit roll of the dice.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim kennedy
He also lost his title fight, though.
joe rogan
But he lost to Stipe, who's also got pretty fucking phenomenal genetics.
He's a giant dude.
He's tough as shit.
He's very skilled and has just a lifetime championship level experience.
tim kennedy
I don't want to say anything nice about that guy, first of all.
It's hard for me to say anything nice about him.
But...
That guy worked hard.
Worked hard.
joe rogan
Tough as shit.
tim kennedy
Became the world champion.
And he looks...
He's had a dad bod for forever.
I don't ever remember looking at him and being like, that's a scary dude.
I look at him and I'm like, God, I want to fight him.
And then take that British accent and shove it down his throat.
And then make fun of him.
Then make more videos about him.
Then beat him up again.
joe rogan
Well, he's been clean his whole career and never looked like a guy who was doing anything suspicious.
tim kennedy
And his hard work.
joe rogan
Hard work.
tim kennedy
That made him the world champion.
unidentified
And toughness.
joe rogan
Yes.
tim kennedy
God, and toughness.
Alright, no more talking nice about that guy.
Let's talk about anything else but that.
joe rogan
But after you're retired, can't you just let it go with a guy like him?
Or did you guys talk so much shit?
tim kennedy
No, I'm just talking shit still.
Yeah, no, totally.
Man, I've never really had a real problem with anybody.
You know, in 17 years as a professional fighter, I mean, I could pick a couple of instances.
Mike and I would never be friends.
We're not going to go drink a pint together.
joe rogan
Why not, though?
tim kennedy
I think we're just different people.
joe rogan
But why not now?
If he retires and you retire...
tim kennedy
I mean, I just don't know what we're going to...
We're just different.
joe rogan
If you're in the airport one day...
tim kennedy
Yeah, we'd totally hang out.
joe rogan
...run into each other.
You're at a bar.
You're like, let me buy you a drink, you fuck.
tim kennedy
But it's like, what are we talking about?
Hunting?
Are we going to talk about shooting?
Let's say we drink a pint.
Like, we're never going to be friends.
But I would totally sit down and have dinner with them and talk about the good old days.
It's because you won.
joe rogan
It also helps.
tim kennedy
Nah.
I don't even think about it that way.
joe rogan
No?
tim kennedy
Like Luke Rockhold, you know, I'd sit and talk to him.
Jacare, I'd sit and talk to him.
You know.
joe rogan
We gotta get you out of here because I know you got a flight to catch.
But I want to tell you, out of all my times of calling fights, one of the most powerful experiences that I ever saw really wasn't even televised.
It was in between you...
You knocking out Sapo in the fight for the troops, and you got on top of the cage, and all the troops were there cheering you on.
This wasn't televised.
Nobody saw this.
But you were pointing at all those people and saying, I love you.
I do this for you.
I love you.
And they were cheering.
And it was a fucking powerful moment, man.
That was a powerful moment to this day.
I think about sometimes because that was a different kind of a fight.
It was a different kind of an audience.
And it was a different kind of a moment.
And when you launched that left hook on him and connected him and stopped him and then jumped up on the cage and did that, that audience, the love they had for you and the love you had for them, it was in the air, man.
It was fucking amazingly powerful.
tim kennedy
I'll never forget that moment to the day I die.
Not the fight.
Not the fight camp.
I couldn't breathe.
I had so much love.
For everybody that was like...
I would have melted...
I would have Thanos'd myself vaporized and taken every one of my bits and just handed it to everybody there and not existed just so that they could have anything that they wanted.
Because there was just nothing in me that I wanted more than just to give them anything I had.
And I think...
joe rogan
I believe that.
It came out.
When you were saying what you were saying, the way...
You could feel the honesty and sincerity in it.
tim kennedy
I'm not a good liar.
I gotta work on that.
joe rogan
Nah, don't work on it.
Tim Kennedy, you're a bad motherfucker.
I appreciate you, bro.
tim kennedy
Yeah, keep doing it, bro.
joe rogan
I will.
You too.
Alright, that's it.
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